Why are Florida Democrats so convinced they can't win with their policies and candidates and need to now enlist convicted criminals?
30
@Chris
Well let us all hope you are never convicted of a felony or, God forbid, framed for a felony. Because in that case I’m sure your world view would change.
50
for a country that bleats non stop about how great it is compared to all the unfortunates that aren't the united states of america, it certainly resembles a banana republic and a rogue state combined.
with the ability to blow up the world.
it is, without doubt, the scariest country on the face of earth.
messianic in its belief, often without a clue, that it is a special place compared to all other countries.
without a clue about any countries. whether it be where they are, their system of government....nothing.
and elected a man who, it seems, has been a monster since the day he was born.
78
Republicans refuse to allow national elections to take place on Sunday. They are afraid Black churches would organize buses in rural areas to take black worshippers of faith to polling booths.
56
Republicans are the party of Trump. They will do anything to stop non white citizens from being able to vote. They know the clock is ticking and they will be relegated to the dust bin of history. Future generations will talk of how pathetic the party of Trump was.
71
Turn this around and it's Democrats trying to get ex-felons who haven't paid their penalties to become eligible to vote Democrats.
9
What about the flip side? Why are Democrats so dependent on ex-convicts to win?
12
If everyone were able to vote, Republicans would be losers, literally as well as figuratively.
It really is that simple...
68
In Nancy McClean’s book, “Democracy in Chains,” she exposes how Republicans mega donors came to realize that merely fooling people about their agenda wasn’t enough as long as the real obstacle was too much democracy. She brings “the receipts” in the academic papers of the Koch brothers favorite economist and principal shill, James Buchanan. The clever device used by the author, is to let this ogre tell the story himself comprising most of what amounts to a 300 page written confession.
None of this is good enough, apparently, to convince a broken US news media that seems to lack curiosity, a Kindle or even access to The Google. But good on the NY Times editorial board for exposing a slice of Buchanan’s conclusions put into action by one party rule in my home state. But, one can hardly imagine what the whole loaf is gonna taste like.
36
If you want to help restore the voting rights of felons by contributing to a fund to help pay off the fines associated with their sentences, their is an organization for that.
https://wegotthevote.org/finesandfees/
They are roughly 10% of the way towards achieving their goal of paying off the 2.7 million dollars that is owed.
My family will be making a contribution today.
My worry is that once this is paid off the Florida republicans will try to find another way of keeping poor black people from voting.
64
Why?
Because the GOP believes in winning more than they believe in Democracy and The Constitution. —Occam's Razor
70
Republicans fear being held accountable at the voting booth by the public they apparently despise.
A reckoning is coming, though, for the party of white revanchism. They know it, hence the gerrymandering, the voter suppression, the fomenting of Individual-1's base's basest political passions.
Will the rest of us stand by while the white suprematist dead-enders throttle our democracy?
Register people to vote. Canvass and volunteer for your preferred candidate. Talk to young people about what's at stake in this election and get them out to vote. Donate. Run for office.
Individual-1's corrupt party must be crushed. It is without doubt the single greatest threat in existence to American democracy and to the planet's habitability.
49
I worked for a company that in 2000 was tasked with coming to FL during the Gore v. Bush recount in the 4 counties being challenged by Al Gore.
The task was to take the voter rolls and map them to a consumer database that included date of death. This database was the most accurate in the industry (MetLife doesn't want to mail you a life insurance offer if you just died 3 weeks ago).
The analysis found that well over 3500 dead people (they were dead on the day they cast their vote, even absentee) voted for Al Gore, and less than 300 dead people voted for Bush; just in those 4 counties.
Because SCOTUS ruled as they did, this analysis and report was buried....likely next to Hillary Clinton's email server.
Zombie voting is real. The only way to prevent fraud from impacting Presidential elections or national policy (ObamaCare due to the fraud getting Al Franken elected) is requiring photo ID or installing webcams in each voting precinct to attach a photo next to a name in the voter rolls.
When a 25 year old hipster wearing a stocking cap shows up to vote as Elmer Anderson in Boca...it should set off red flags. But..without voter ID...nobody can ask Seth for his id...so he gets to cast his vote since he already knows Elmer's address. It was in the obituaries 3 weeks ago.
3
A better question is why are liberals so unable to understand simple words.
The amendment says felons can vote after they comply with ALL terms of their judgments of conviction.
Just like Liberals can’t seem to understand the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigrants; they apparently can’t grasp the meaning of the word “ALL.”
9
You've got to hand it to those bigots who try to suppress African-Americans from voting. Since the end of the 19th century, they've continuously looked for ways to subvert the 15th amendment.
If you looked at the U.S. today you'd think the only constitutional amendment that is absolute is the 2nd. The rest seem to be just suggestions that don't have to be followed.
60
Most Floridians favor capital punishment for violent felons too...therefore, let the people decide. No?
5
If you attempt to register to vote while still owing money do you get fined?
5
Florida is a state that has laws and enforces them. According to this article, the burden falls upon blacks and the poor. But, Joe Biden just informed us all that they are just as smart as white people. So, they should be able to figure it out. Thanks Joe!
3
Since the governorship of Jeb Bush, Florida government has been effectively criminalized. These panhandle republicans who control the state are every bit as backwards of the most backward denizens of Alabama or Mississippi. This is the second time Floridians' votes have been negated by these politicians. They give the people what they don't want with tricks like this. Remember, the current governor campaigned with ads showing him teaching his daughter how to build a wall and dressing his infant is a MAGA onesie. Florida doesn't deserve good government apparently, and these cretins are taking advantage of that. I'm leaving this culture less wasteland as soon as I can.
38
@David from Auckland - great idea!
Republicans in general are not in favor of the right for every citizen to vote and have an equal say in our government. They believe in “one MAN, one vote” as long as it is a white man of property.
29
Why are Americans so afraid of convicted criminals voting?Because these felons have already demonstrated their irresponsibility and poor judgement.Their crimes have drained the tax revenues which could have been used to fund other needed social and educational programs.
Claiming that democracy benefits from allowing individuals with documented irresponsibility and poor judgement is nonsense.
6
Plus don’t forget we have 2 mass shootings and the bomber here. Tallahassee is just so corrupt.
15
Ron DeSantis has given me one more reason to dislike, distrust, and disrespect the GOP.
He and this apparent rescinding are both despicable.
28
Why do democrats feel that African Americans are incapable of getting a driver's license?
The only possible explanations are bigotry of low expectations or the facilitation of voter fraud.
America will continue to get far worse since both sides are fully enshrouded in their own hypocrisy.
4
"This once was known as a poll tax, which Southern states like Florida used in the later 19th century and well into the 20th century to keep their newly freed but still impoverished black citizens from voting." Supported and passed by Southern Democrats, yeh?
4
For me it is absolutely a "voting issue". Several years ago the Florida Legislature, in anti-democracy frenzy, passed through a Florida constitutional amendment citizen referendum that required 65% for any state constitutional amendment. The (Republicans) have since packed the Florida Supreme Court with conservative partisanship against any laws establishing voter rights. Whenever anything not proposed by Republicans passes the requisite 65% the Legislature swiftly steps in to void the amendment through complexity, hurdles, and fraudulent rules (see legalization of marijuana or high speed rail or classroom size limits or Bush Presidency election laws for other examples).
So this is a "voting issue" not so much of the restoration of voting (although it is certainly that) but the voiding of my vote *for* the felon rights amendment.
(BTW, the NYT artist's depiction appears to be voting at a urinal - exactly how the state treats bonafide democracy.)
The carpetbaggers and old white men continue their reconstitution (pun intended) and Reconstruction of Jim Crow. May they reap the wind.
16
If you're Black, Hispanic, poor, a student, or convict, the Republican motto is: One person, no vote.
19
Simple. They can’t WIN, unless they Lie, Cheat and Steal.
Period.
21
Democrats are concerned that people who are entitled to vote will be unable to vote. Republicans are concerned that people who are not entitled to vote do vote. Like with almost every other issue these days, there is just a fundamental disconnect.
This further strengthens my embarrassment to be an American. I cannot believe I am a resident of the same country as these crazy, hateful people. They have no morals.
The Democrats have to learn to stop being nice guys. If we regain power in states like Florida, we really need to stick it to them. Obama was a compromiser. Other than appointing a few fairly liberal judges, he didn't do enough. Nice guys finish last.
13
Several of my female cousins age 55-62 live in various parts of Florida. They told me that the tide is turning against Trump and the Republicans in Florida. They said it will be all because of the women like us!
By the way I live in Georgia, the tide is turning here too! We will elect more Jen Jordan’s and Lucy McBath’s. Every woman my age I know has had an abortion! Women don’t want Roe v Wade gone! Not till you know what carrying a baby for 9 months can you dictate what women can and cannot do with there bodies!
16
A much better use of people’s time here would be to get more participation from those that actually can vote.
Turnout numbers are often frighteningly low.
They Dems are falsely altruistic here.
Their give everything away to everyone for free ideology will surely appeal to anyone who was little.
The fact that they pretend to want to do this in support of people of color is more hypocrisy.
What’s sadder is that they think the majority of Americans can’t see through these self serving tactics.
What a Despicable party they have become!
1
“If you aren’t cheating you aren’t trying.”
The modern GOP tries hard.
13
The problem with any prohibitions to voting is that it will be abused. Don't think for a minute that arresting and convicting a black man of a felony is done without political considerations--the police and prosecutor know they're taking out a Democrat.
The other problem is that when some people are legally barred from voting--the keepers of the list will "make mistakes", removing similar sounding (black?) names. That's what happened in 2000 with thousands of voters purged despite having different birthdates, names and addresses. Oops! right.
10
Because democracy is incompatible with white privilege, and they’ve got nothing left but that.
11
Some day we will defeat the thoroughly dishonest, corrupt, repressive, right-wingers who have far too much power in America.
And after we do, never forget them. Never forget their malevolence, hypocrisy, and willful ignorance. Never forget the tremendous harm they've done to our great country, and especially what they've done to minorities and to people who are struggling with poverty.
Never forget, and never let them regain so much ill-gotten power, ever again.
12
Republicans do not want people voting.
9
Yep. The truth is Florida is a lot “bluer” then it may appear. This is not the first ballet initiative passed by the voters and then turned on it’s ear by the Legislature, and quite often, like this one, they are weaponized against those who voted for them as if to say; “What we got here is a failure to communicate...”
7
Once again, America proves that it is not the representative democracy it claims to be. In Canada, even incarcerated felons have a constitutional right to vote. That one of the two parties that make up the American political landscape embraces such openly heinous and anti-democratic principles continues to receive local, state and federal majority support enough to control the process through which they can enact their sinister agenda reveals one certain fact, this is who Americans really are. This is the mainstream. Get over blaming Mitch McConnell...this is your neighbour, your wife, your boss, your voting age child...not some aberration, not some white nationalist fringe, this is who you are. Those "Florida Republicans" are not limited to the state house, they are the people of Florida...and their enablers, those who make this all possible...are all those "others" who never vote. Don't whine about the disenfranchisement of voter's right....your own apathy allowed it to happen. "Republicans" did not make it happen, Americans....all of them, those who vote and those who don't, made it happen.
6
The game is rigged simple as that.
6
I applaud the Times for bringing sunshine to Florida's legislative branch's ignoring the will of the people. With all three branches of our state government now under Republican control, there is little individual citizens can do to combat the Republican agenda.
We are working to register new voters, and the fate of former felons for 2020 is questionable at best.
One reason for Republican control is gerrymandering by the governors Jeb Bush and Rick Scott.
The other reason, and perhaps the most important, is the decline of local daily newspapers in many Florida cities. This has led to poor to no coverage of local or state issues. A number of dailies have been purchased by GateHouse Media, known for drastically reducing newsroom staff and printing mainly second-day wire news. Thus, even citizens who are not busy working two to three jobs are hard pressed to learn what their local and state governments are doing.
The recent purchase of Gannett by GateHouse's parent, New Media Investment Group, should be especially concerning for citizens nationwide.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/09/is-bigger-better-gannett-merger-will-test-whether-local-news-can-be-saved/
I encourage the Times to follow the DeSantis administration, since Florida will be in play in next year's elections. I happily pay for my subscription. I also encourage readers who can to support ProPublica, which publishes important investigative reports on state and local issues.
15
Democracy has never been healthy in Florida. Florida is run by rich white men, as well as Latin oligarchs and their cronies seeking a haven for capital flight and drug money. But demographics is destiny. They know time is running out for them. Structural obstacles like voter suppression worked for a century in the Jim Crow South to maintain the status quo. They hope it will continue to work today.
11
While ago, there was quite a bit of squawking about secession. That still on the table?
For the same reason the Gators, Seminoles, Hurricanes and Knights have good football teams.
The Sunshine State got a lot of people of color who vote Democrat.
There are so many that there is a Florida diaspora of athletes all over the United States. Would Ray Lewis or Warren Sapp vote for Trump?
1
More indecency. But not surprise.
Here is an alternative interpretation: why are criminals likely to vote Democrat?
Food for thought.
4
Have Steyer, Bloomberg, and/or any wealthy democrat to pay the debts down. The fraud standing in as president won by 80,000 votes in three states and won due to the anachronistic electoral college. Every vote counts. And the removal of the racist governor in Florida would be a great move.
7
Sounds like a great opportunity for some multi-billionaire to pay off these debts and restore full citizenship to Florida's ex-felons.
4
“Imagine not being able to get your diploma until you’ve paid odd your student debt.” Actually, that happens all the time to poor high school students. They cannot get their diplomas until they pay off their fees, which accumulate for dumb stuff like overdue library books, lost I.d.’s, and unpaid insurance for their Chromebooks. Ridiculous. Wrong. But true.
4
There's this felon, Epstein, who got off with a pretty lenient sentence from the State of Florida. Now that he has passed, maybe they could put a lien on his estate and clear the fines and fees for these disenfranchised voters.
10
Agreed. We'll put.
3
The GOP is a bunch of coward politicians who are not willing to change with times but by undermining democracy. There is a crucial conservative community in the Latino and other immigrant communities that are not included because of their extremism anti-immigrants views that would make the party relevant and closer to democracy as it could be. Is easier to disenfranchise than to make work and win a population that in a different time would’ve been part of your so-white caucus.
2
The Republicans don't even care anymore if they are busted rigging elections. No policy? Just keep the other team from voting and don't worry your pretty little heads about creating ideas and plans. They continue to make a mockery of democracy.
6
Hey Democrats, if there was ever a perfect GoFundMe opportunity, this is it. I'm guessing we could easily pay off many of these debts very quickly. I'm game for $10.
8
Wonder how much $$ we're talking about here.....what if Dems who would be donating to a candidate's campaign instead spent that money paying off one or two people's court costs? At that point, one Dem = 2 or 3 voters. Not saying the new voters will vote Dem, but its a good bet.
2
Florida is one of the most disgusting states in the country, and the people who care should speak with their wallet, and never visit the state.
All the sunshine in that state cannot disinfect the land that is wretched due to these laws. And my own state is no better in these. In fact, wherever Republicans seem to be in power, this seems to be the case: a real life miniature Handmaids Tale in the works.
4
By the clearly manufactured logic of Florida Republicans, anyone who has an outstanding water bill, parking fine, or such, shouldn’t be allowed to vote in Florida.
7
This one feels solve-able. Where can I send my money?
3
Instead of donating millions to Dem candidates, the money should be spent on moving Puerto Ricans to Fla.
They're citizens, they can vote, and they vote Dem.
5
If there were a GoFundMe to help pay off every one of those en masse, I'd certainly chip in. It's only right. And what Florida is doing is only wrong.
4
Well, they can't win any other way. Unless they cheat.
"First, it seems clear what voters intended..." which disregards the plain language of amendment stating upon "completion of sentence including parole or probation." The question therefore isn't why Republicans are so afraid to let people vote, but why Democrats want that guy who broke into your house, stole $5,000 worth of your stuff and has never paid a dime back to you via the state, to be let back out on the streets so he can vote with the Progressives to take even more of your stuff.
We have a governor, who when he was running for governor, bragged was ‘more trump than trump’ and he and the other republicans in the state are living up to their racism.
The people of Florida voted overwhelmingly for Amendment four.
Another example how the republicans ignore the will of the people!
Impeach
6
I am renewing my ACLU membership now. It’s a shame that we have to keep fighting the republican minority to keep our country fair, for ALL.
6
Well said. Florida Republicans don’t care about anyone but their inner circle. I went to DeSantis Inaugural Ball and saw about 10 people of color out of 1000 people. That says it all. Russian hacking in FL elections and narrow wins given to republicans, year after year, excessive gerrymandering so Democrats cannot win, and now this. My state has been mauled by republican lawmakers to keep democratic values at a minimum and keep republican elites in control. This is a poll tax, just add it to the list of racist shenanigans. White men rule Florida and we are still in the Jim Crow era.
5
This is an easy fix
If Governor De Santis and his cronies want to play this game, maybe someone like Tom Steyer (Billionaire Philanthropist) could pay all the levies for the ex Floridian felons.
This accomplishes two things,
1. It turns Florida blue.
2. It pokes the "new Jim Crow" conservatives right in the eye.
Please rinse and repeat, retweet as necessary.
3
Republicans tell me where in the constitution does it say a felony conviction denies a person the right to vote? You know, that document you cherry pick a few words from but have never read or understood.
Florida legislatures repeated ignore the citizens will, first with marijuana legalization and now with allowing ex felons to vote.
3
We ought to fear illegal voting right here in New York State now that a driver's license can be obtained by an illegal immigrant. But that is why the Democratic majority passed it.
What about if Dems payoff these “fines” to enfranchise even 10,000 people. Would makes a big difference.
I look forward to prison time massive fines and FORCED ENTRY of GOP HQ offices, homes , places of business routing out the endless corruption of these kleptocrats. When the turn comes the crowd will be furious!
2
Not a single Republican deserves to be in office anywhere in this supposed Democracy.
3
The Florida GOP is basically trying to encode white supremacy into law. They know they are in an unpopular position with the electorate now, and rather than competing in a fair election, they will use every immoral and unethical trick available to try to steal the election instead. The courts should immediately toss out this law due to its obvious intent to take away voting rights from minorities.
5
"This once was known as a poll tax"
Completely false. A pole tax was levied on everyone. irregardless of their status in life. And it was the same amount for everyone, irregardless of their status in life.
Clearly unconstitutional, unless they also withhold voting rights for every unpaid traffic ticket, parking ticket, lawn watering violation, littering violation, boating violation, construction permit violation...in other words, all the money white Republicans owe to the government. Singling out ex-felons who just happened to have their voting rights recently restored is pure and simple class discrimination.
5
Are you kidding me?! WHY are Florida Republicans so afraid of people voting? Because they know IF every eligible voter does in fact VOTE; the Republicans will LOSE! I know this is a classic rhetorical question...But come on!
3
"Ping-Ponging between hope and despair over whether they can exercise their most fundamental constitutional right — the right to vote."
There's no need to capitalize a verb based on a brand name.
1
Sorry I can’t find any symphony for felons who haven’t paid their debts to society. You lose the right to bear arms as well. Redemption is possible but you have to make restitution for criminal behavior, and demonstrate that you understand how wrong it was.
1
One consolation for people whose residence in Florida is being regularly rejected by the 'Publican Constabulary is that the remaining filthy rich or filthy poor but unindicted lawbreakers will still have to live in a climate where there is no escaping the constant sun (and heat) and where "Mar-A-Lago" and environs will be literally under water sooner than later.
Wow, white people really are scared of minorities who will be able to vote and have a bigger majority in the next several decades.
Its like we have gone back in time with voting rights.
Really sad they can't help minorities become involved in politics and understand the issues and maybe they would in turn be able to help their own communities.
You need to ask? This is the state of hanging chads and uncounted voter ballots stuffed in closets in back rooms. Florida has done so much to destroy our democracy. They elect a governor who engineered the largest Medicaid fraud in U.S. History and wasn’t prosecuted. Then as a reward for his criminal behavior, they elect him to the Senate. Now this poll tax bunk. My hatred of Florida with their voter suppression and ridiculous gun laws knows no bounds. You couldn’t pay me to visit let alone actually live there.
2
You just described Fl. Florida's GOP Legislature. Shameless. The popular vote means nothing. Manipulating the electoral results is common. We voted to reintegrate part of the society back to enjoy their civil rights.
The GOP in Fl. is not only mocking the right of American citizens who paid their debt to society, but they are also mocking us the people.
No wonder some doubt that Trump will leave Office if he loses re-election. It will be Florida all over again. Miami is on a different planet than Tallahassee.
1
The Republican legislator's in Tallahassee did the same thing with medical marijuana; also approved by over 2/3 voter referendum. At one absurd point, it was illegal to either smoke or ingest! The 'so called' conservatives only cry for LESS REGULATION when it comes to crony capitalism or the environment. The rest of the time, they are without shame in being 'up in your business.'
3
Jim Crow is alive and active in Florida. Florida was one of the worst states in the treatment of it's black citizens and one of the last to partially change.
The Florida legislature is dominated by rural communities that still believe in the "lost cause" and are aided by the Republican "southern strategy".
National disgust will not overcome Florida's legislature's dislike of free blacks. Fear of the black vote is driving the Republican State to disregard ethics and honesty.
2
If you let people vote they cause problems, like Amendment 4, which Republicans then have to find ways to get around.
Why are republicans anywhere in the country fearful of people voting? When the masses vote, republicans lose! A dying political “movement” supported by a shrinking minority, that, through gerrymandering, suppression, lying propaganda, and foreign assistance is still able to win elections...WE must change this starting in 2020!
Freedom, to the gop and it's supporters, means the freedom to enslave others for your personal benefit. They understand this to be what the"founding fathers" intended.
2
Between their gun laws and Jim Crow laws I would never want to live in Florida. I am always shocked how close the elections are there. Seniors vote against themselves.
1
The GOP disposes democracy and all voters who oppose them. Florida has been a squalid focus of voter suppression and election “irregularities” (that had Pat Buchanan winning the liberal bastions ala “butterfly ballot”) that sent democracy down the rabbit hole in 2000. Russia is certain to assist Republicans in 2020. Why? Because it will be a swing state and Russia needs to keep Trump in office.
1
Barring as many legitimate voters from as many American citizens as possible, as in Florida, WORKS for Republicans. The anti-tax on the rich party again imposes the equivalent of a poll-tax on the poor who are "too poor to vote" or afford tariffs. What we need is a political contribution tax on the rich commensurate to the amount and the wealth of the individual.
Republicans are afraid of anyone voting that has not past their one party dictatorial loyalty tests from their proxies - the NRA (grading included), NRA board member Grover Norquist's blood oath against taxes on the rich, legislative author ALEC, evangelical oath, the trump, Adelson, Mercer, Epstein, Koch, Putin, Bibi, MBS loyalty tests, etc.
Using the same rules would disqualify trump and his ilk of Republican kleptocrats from voting for 2 minutes short of eternity, at a $100 per month restitution rate and before a 4% surcharge.
Republican proxies even have American Hispanics scared for their lives. How many will risk their lives to exercise their right to vote now, especially in blood RED states with 8 trillion bullets?
"allowing people in prison to vote — as is the case in most European countries ... all are still functioning democracies." The difference is the huge number of voters America locks up compared to Europe or anywhere else on Earth.
If Crystal Mason can get 5 years in prison for mistakenly voting, what should trump and the Republicans get for outright theft of elections? Eternal life in prison?
1
The Florida voters been to amend the new amendment.
I split my time between Mississippi and Louisiana and the differences in the laws in those states in regards to criminals and voting are so arbitrary that it’s ridiculous.
In Mississippi I can have a train load of cocaine and still vote but if I steal a lawn mower (or any other item ) worth more than $1000.00 I can’t vote.
It’s ridiculous and can not be constitutional but this current court will never wade into
That arena.
2
Shelby County v. Holder, 570 U.S. 2 (2013) wherein Chief Justice Roberts declaimed while invalidating The Voting Rights Act of 1965;
"based on 40 year-old (48 year!) facts having no logical relationship to the present day".
The Justice has not gotten around a great deal and needs to visit Neshoba County Mississippi during the County Fair.
Some voting.....some fair.
1
Easy- they know if everyone in the state votes without gerrymandering and voter suppression tactics they will be voted out of office. Time to really drain the swamp, boys!
1
Where are the wealthy democratic version of the Koch brothers. How about someone with the means simply wipes out this debt before the next election?
Minority rule takes many forms, what did anyone really expect anyway.
I guess the short answer is duh!
How much longer are we going to pretend that the GOP cares about democracy? They only care about power and privilege at any cost, and the evidence is abundant.
1
No doubt the South has improved. They no longer burn crosses in the middle of the night or even worse. The KKK is no longer openly encouraged by government. So it has come a long way. But it is still the South, where eradicating racism completely will take more time. And with the lingering racism comes a feeling that it's OK to do whatever you can do legally to keep the minorities and "others" away from power. Mr. Trump , I believe, shares this attitude.
1
I live in Florida. We're not afraid of people voting but the new governor is. He and the other conservative Republicans are scared to death that allowing former prisoners to vote will tip the scales in favor of the Democrats. They're also afraid that the "wrong" people will vote and not understand who or what they are voting for. In other words "The Republican way or the highway".
I've actually heard comments by some (not too many) that former prisoners don't have the mental capacity or the good judgement to vote. Of course what they're really saying is that blacks lack intelligence. Coding down here is not subtle.
My home states are New York (born in the City!) and South Central PA. What strikes me as very strange is the number of senior transplants who adopt the strict conservatism of Florida Republicans. Suddenly being a conservative is ok. Like coming out of the closet after years of repression.
In my view I believe that most Floridians voted for former felons to have the right to vote once they have been released not when they have paid their fines or any other criteria. I also believe that the Governor has usurped the power of the people who voted for this relief. Our intention was to give former prisoners all of their rights including the right to vote. We, the people and residents of Florida understood that that right is what we voted for. There was no other language on the ballot that created restrictions.
6
I bet the house that they can quickly get their 2nd Amendment rights restored. Florida lawmakers and judges would prefer convicts to buy guns than vote.
Calling all billionaires, will someone please step forward to make it possible for some of these folks to vote?
Beyond Amendment 4 - It’s not just ‘Florida’ Republicans who are afraid of people voting.
This is obscene. I thought serving one's prison term was called "repaying your debt to society" I had no idea that states were still charging prisoners afterwards for their being in the court system in the first place!
When the GOP aren't acting like fascists or communists, they start evincing attitudes and writing policies that would do the pre-Revolutionary French aristocrats proud.
Remind me: how did those various regimes end up?
4
This is why I have no faith at all that the GOP will work with Democrats to safeguard our elections from foreign interference.
1
The modern GOP is an anti-democracy institution. Thank you for continuing to shine light on the darkness they try to bring to America.
Let's make this simple: if you are a U.S. citizen 18 years old or older, you have a right to vote, no matter your circumstances.
Incarcerated or not, you are still a citizen who is impacted by political decisions, and everyone deserves a say in how this country works.
If you're a politician who thinks you can't win an election because a bunch of murderers could vote against you: make yourself a more attractive candidate.
Southern states like Florida are facing real structural problems, and their politicians have time to fix a problem that is not in reality a problem?
Is there a trusted organization via which I can pay off someone's liability that keeps them from voting in Florida?
1
It would take just one billionaire to step up and pay all those fines in Florida for the will of the people to be enacted.
As Biden would say, 'what a bunch of malarkey', that 'republican' pseudo-democracy has an edict, government in the hands of their minority, a most corrupt practice, and where conflicts of interest are the order of the day. How is this even possible, cheating on the popular vote, and then establishing unjust laws contrary to the needs and wishes of the people? Is this what a reverse socialism looks like, and where the rich take from the poor...with impunity? This is clearly an institutionalized violence that must be stopped. So much blood was spilled to gain the right to vote, and now republicans are intent, in plain daylight, to disembowel it. For what, a pluto-kleptocracy?
1
Seems to me this would be a good use of a Democratic billionaire’s money. Tom Steyer comes to mind. A million or so dollars used to pay off these ridiculous stop voting fees could enfranchise a lot of people and swing the vote in Florida.
Of course, it would be interesting to watch the Ridiculous Republicans pass a law to outlaw that based on some manufactured and high sounding reason.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable: Pay off your debt to society and then you can fully participate in it.
Seriously, what’s to argue with here?
1
This is another example of Trump's influence on the Republican Party. He has proven that absolute shamelessness carries no penalty with the Republican electorate. This frees Republican politicians to act in brazenly self-serving, antidemocratic ways with no fear of electoral backlash.
The 2020 election is going to be the most corrupt vote ever seen on American shores. Trump fears indictment for obstruction of justice if he loses, and he will do ANYTHING to avoid that. He will cheat and lie on a scale that will take many years to fully uncover.
The unwillingness to live up to "one person one vote" is a strain of supremacy that will have to be drowned in the tub if we wish to continue to grow our democracy. I suppose a particular slice of the demography sees the end of the entitlement line and is pressing down hard on the brakes.
I would like to see billionaires the likes of Tom Steyer step up to the plate and pay the fines. If you really want to stick it to the obstructionists and make a difference I think this might be one avenue.
1
Question --". . .Crystal Mason, the Texas woman who was sentenced to five years in prison for voting when she didn't realize she wasn’t allowed to."
Does anyone know what happened to the poll worker who allowed Crystal Mason to vote? There is no info in the linked article.
I'd have to ask Jack McCoy if "aiding and abetting" or being an accessory applies.
The Republican Party has made rigging elections to keep minorities and others from voting into an art form with a playbook aimed solely to keep whites in power.
Across the nation, it has become the practice and pattern of to justify discrimination. This bigotry is crafted in the form of Voter ID laws; a Census question that its architects admit that it was designed solely to keep Hispanics from voting and
In Indian reservations, they tossed out legitimate voter registrations because of questions about addresses. In other states, they looked at the legitimacy of signatures on voter registration papers, or simply throwing out legitimate voter registrations based on bureaucratic whims and lame excuses.
It is a form of neatly packaged Jim Crow laws in the 21st Century to discourage minorities or those the Republican Party targets as threats to their political power from voting.
This is all just a three-piece suit, metal-flag pins on lapels version of racism. It has replaced white sheets and hate speech with legalese and tries to carefully articulate and legitimize this brand of bigotry.
Bigotry spawned from the same minds that cage children and separate them from their parents.
But first, the Party wraps itself around the flag to justify its racism.
1
Republican politicians cheat a lot and it sometimes helps them win. Generally, Democrat politicians don't and, other than timid and mild posturing, aren't inclined to attack Republicans caught cheating. Neither party's voters seem to want to elect politicians inclined to do anything differently in a quest for different results. So what's the problem?
For anyone who still believes in American Exceptionalism, here is another item to add to your accomplishments to be proud of!
2
Florida Republicans are so afraid of people voting because in a fair election (You remember the concept of one citizen one vote?) they would lose. Instead, they resort to voter intimidation and gerrymandering to maintain their death grip on the state legislature and their U.S. Senators. Not until ALL citizens get to vote will this country bear any resemblance to a democracy.
Speaking in 1798 against the Sedition Acts, Albert Gallatin (of PA) said: this bill must be considered only as a weapon used by a party now in power in order to perpetuate their authority and preserve their present places.
And so it is today.
2
Criminals and former criminals vote overwhelmingly for democrats. That’s a fact, and not something to be proud of. It’s not surprising that Republicans want to prevent that, and even our constitution specifically carves them out. I’m fine preventing all felons from ever voting again. Their voices should not contaminate the outcome decided by law abiding citizens.
2
Florida Republicans? There's a much broader pattern of subverting democracy by the GOP.
Look to Wisconsin, where Republicans lost the governorship but attempted to strip that position of power in a lame-duck session.
Or at Utah, where voters wanted Medicare expansion, only to have the GOP-controlled Legislature curtail it. Republicans from Florida to the floor of U.S. Senate seem at odds with the will of the people.
I recently left Florida after a decade there. The Republicans there are so far to the right it’s disgraceful. It’s all about keeping others down.
No worries though - karma will catch up - and put a chunk of that state underwater.
Too much democracy is a very bad thing. It is mob rule. America grew to greatness under limited suffrage that tended to favor the more intelligent and well educated and well behaved. Felons should never be allowed to vote and there should be a Voter Qualification Test, in English, on civics and math. Basic math skills are needed to have any understanding of economic policy and taxation. Our republic is crippled by the votes of uneducated persosns of limited intellect.
Umm .. . because they are convicted felons who have not paid their orders of restitution to their victims, or their fines to the State?
3
why are Florida lawmakers afraid of people voting?
Is this really a question?
1
A question for a presidential debate. Raise your hand if you think Florida's election apparatus is as fair as Russia's. And please give reasons for your answer.
There’s a core element in the Republicans’ attempts to rob people who might oppose them of the right to vote: Naked power. But one major tool they use to accomplish this is the old marketing tool of “F.U.D.” - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. This is the whole point of the census question: it doesn’t even have to be implemented to cause enough F.U.D. to potentially swing an election.
That's because the only way Republicans can win any election is by cheating. Plain and simple. I mean when McConnell goes up there and calls proposals by Democrats to make elections fairer a "power grab" what do people think that means? Why would making it easier for people to vote be a power grab? Because the GOP knows that they are unable to earn peoples' votes fairly and squarely so cheating is the only way they can win elections. If they were to make it fair and easy, they would lose. It is not a mystery, listen to what McConnell says.
Just look at 2000 when the SCOTUS appointed Bush junior president and then all other subsequent elections. Look at the electoral maps where despite more Democrats voting, state legislatures still end up with more Republicans in office. Neo-Conservative ideology is by design against democracy and fair and open elections. Everything the GOP has done these past 40 years points to that including as we speak where the party is covering for a criminal, treasonous president just so they can use him to push their own agenda. If it was up to the GOP, this country would be a one party nation and no more elections at all. This is why I am concerned that if Trump were to lose 2020 and refuses to leave office, the GOP will not stand in his way because they share those undemocratic visions of this nation with him.
41
I would appreciate a follow-on article, regarding non-profit organizations who will channel 95+% of donations to pay off the IMO un-Constitutional, yet presently legal, debts of these many voters. There are enough people in this country will means enough to help in this simple fashion.
Additionally, I don't want to wait for the issue to wend its way through the court system, and then face a biased US Supreme Court: with so much originalism now embedded in its thought processes, the justices may well decide the 24th Amendment does not apply, and the State's demands for re-payment are not a poll tax.
15
How can one read Section 2 of the 14th Amendment and not think Florida’s representation in the House of Representatives should be reduced in proportion to the number of people denied the right to vote? Come to think of it, the 15th Amendment was ignored in the South for nearly a century. When will this nation live out the true meaning of its creeds and its laws?
18
My youngest son, who is 41 years old, was arrested in the parking lot of the dollar store where he works for possession of a single marijuana cigarette, which was in his car's glove box. He was charged with that crime and with resisting arrest because the deputy misunderstood the spelling of his last name. The deputy claims my son had burn marks on his shirt from smoking pot. He is on probation now for a year and must do community service for six months. Because he lost his job after the deputy charged him with possession of ecstacy -- actually prescribed antacid pills -- my wife and I have paid more than $2,000 in fines and bail bonds, plus the same amount in lawyer fees. Every day my son works his community service he is required to pay $20.
29
Republicans have been following the disenfranchise possibilities for all of the time I've been a voter (40+ years). As far as it goes, they've been anti-democracy the whole time.
When you come right down to it, republicans have been trying for a permanent majority (read dictatorship) since the former Dixiecrats took over the republican party after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson.
34
Voter suppression, voter intimidation, voter disengagement, gerrymandering are all tools of a political party that knows it cannot sell its ideology to the majority. These measures are meant for no other reason than for the minority ideology, the minority point of view to hold sway over the majority's vision for the future.
It really does place an exclamation point on just how desperate the shrinking base of the Republican Party has become to cling to power.
43
All branches of government in Florida have been Republican or decades. My family is documented as having been here--the Native American part--since the 1600s, and the rest since at least the early 1800s. I blame the conservative snowbirds who migrate from the north--look at the Villages near Ocala--for a lot of this. They don't like taxes of any kind--income tax, which we don't have and is a large reason why they move here, or property taxes--which hurts our schools, so Florida produces a lot of homeschooled and other ignoramuses. Needless to say, you will find few persons of color or with liberal views in enclaves like the Villages. And, the Panhandle, where I grew up and am now retired to, might as well be part of Alabama. George Wallace suggested annexing it. I can't even have a civil conversation with my high school classmates. Months ago, I volunteered to work with the Democratic Party here--volunteered by phone (message left on answering machine) and via a form on their website. I have yet to hear from them. Now, I'm not really sure there is an office.
28
Limited voting is embedded in US history. The franchise initially belonged only to men above a certain age and owning at least a certain amount of property. The continued efforts to retsrict voting is part of a long tradition. It's an attempt by the ruling classes to prevent the rabble from taking power.
Most modern nations have made the every citizen's right to vote expliclit in their constitutions. E.g., it's in Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms (and the only one that refers to "citizens").
13
Well, if the question was posed properly (and honestly) as "Why are Florida Republicans So Afraid of SOME People Voting?" then the answer would be "Because they want to vote away other people's property by electing Democrats".
6
If Jeffrey Epstein had eventually managed to be released from jail he would have been eligible to vote. He had the money to pay anything.
12
Democrats should harp on one clear, provable fact:
Americans lean left on every major issue the nation is facing.
From gun ownership reform to abortion access.
From taxing the wealthy more to more humane immigration policy.
From climate change to expanded access to voting.
(2/3 of Floridians voted to restore voting rights to ex-convicts - Republicans are going against the will of the majority)
And, almost ALL Americans lean left on getting money out of politics and getting rid of Gerrymandered districts.
In short, it's center-left nation now.
Republicans can read polling on all these topics. They're not dumb.
They know they're the minority party with dwindling numbers and unpopular positions.
They know young voters can't stand them.
To stay in power - which they cling to largely from the 2010 election - they make up phony rules for drawing districts and voting rights.
Here, prove it for yourself.
www.pollingreport.com
Every. Major. Issue.
Americans are more liberal.
Democrats should reinforce what the majority believes- the county wants sane, humane answers to problems we face.
Let people know their desires line up with Democratic positions.
Repeat, over and that clear majorities reject the Republican position on EVERY major issue.
www.pollingreport.com
You'll be amazed.
Republicans are desperate because they are becoming extinct.
And they know it.
39
Maybe Florida should wait until Coral Nichols is 190 before they start collecting any taxes from her too. Otherwise we have yet another example of taxation without representation. And we all remember what happened in 1770s.
21
Just another in a series of undemocratic actions Republicans are taking to maintain control: Undermining public education, gerrymandering, corporations are people, money is free speech. I think the founding fathers would call it treason.
20
Why is an individual state allowed to make a law that impacts a national election?
8
@mons
Because there is no such thing as a national election in the US, just 50 individual elections that are totaled together to achieve a national result.
4
@xdrta
There are actually 58 separate elections counting the US Territories and DC and in many States the military overseas vote is handled so poorly it may as well be a separate voting process.
4
Florida - you can do without my tourism dollars. I'm done. When you regain your sense of democracy, I'll reconsider. Right now, I'm planning my winter trip to Puerto Rico. I hope others will join me there.
34
That's not all. Just as evil is Florida's policy of preventing convicted persons from getting a drivers license until all fines and costs are paid. It's a huge scam. An already indigent person will end up with several thousand dollars assessed against them and little or no ability to obtain a decent job. Then the annual interest begins. Then when the costs are not paid within a certain time, they are turned over to a collection agency, which adds a 40% surcharge. No transportation, no credit, a felony conviction? Welcome to the permanent underclass.
Rehabilitation is one of the four goals of criminal sentencing (rehabilitation, restitution, incapacitation and deterrence).
Disenfranchisement and servitude are not.
27
Voter suppression is the repub plan. Its there only hope along with gerrymandering and hoping the Russians help.
14
There is no such thing as equal protection of law in the voting process of this Balkanized nation edging up to dissolution.
7
Florida republicans, like other republicans nationwide, aren't interested in democracy. It's too messy, and subject to the voting whims of democrats. That makes it more difficult to retain their power. And now that they've gotten a taste of autocratic power, they find they like it. They like it very much.
16
Florida Republicans do this every time.
Look into the vote to use hundreds of millions of our tax money to buy Everglades land and restore it.
Voted on , passed and the Republicans took the money for the general fund.
16
Democrats need to fight in the courts, or raise a fund to pay it if necessary and sue the state for the return of the funds.
The legislation giving the vote back to people who had served their time passed overwhelmingly in the state of Florida.
Before the vote, former inmates had to plead before a kangaroo court run by the Governor to obtain their right to vote back.
For anyone who has watched the proceedings, it was a mockery of democracy and the definition of political corruption. Needless to say, the Governor enfranchised few.
As the author suggests, the Republican governor and legislature passed a poll tax that is banned by the 24th Amendment to the Constitution.
The right to vote is a function of the wealth and income of the voter, and it was enacted in response to the electorate's overwhelming will.
It will not stand.
This is a well known fact: their are people who have been prosecuted for their crimes and served their time in jail, and those who haven't.
Trump is an unprosecuted felon, yet he votes. There are many more like him.
To suggest those with wealth and resources who can avoid prosecution for their crimes are freely able to vote, and those lacking such are not, is to deny democracy.
13
I voted for Amendment 4 but I also think it is entirely clear that completing all terms of a convicted felon's sentence means paying all fines and fees.
Trying to compare a felon's sentence-related fines and fees to a student's college debt is a ridiculous argument. The felon's fines and fees are debts owed to society because the felon committed a crime. Those obligations should be fully met before having the right to vote restored.
1
@Steve
The vast majority of those “fines and fees” are added for the specific purpose of maintaining control over the convicts future.
12
The Republican Party -- nationwide, not just in Florida -- has abandoned democracy and free and fair elections.
18
In my seventh decade I am starting to feel a crushing panic that I will leave to my children and grandchildren a country no longer the best hope on earth. In the 1950s and 1960s we suffered the searing civil rights battles through to victory, at least in written law. One person/one vote. No poll tax. No literacy test. No jumping through hoops. No attack dogs. No fire hoses. The billionaires and the homeless were equal in this one way: the right to register to vote and then, on Election Day, to vote without facing a sneering gauntlet demanding add-on requirements carefully researched and designed to block only certain people.
When SCOTUS rolled back the pre-clearance of any changes to voter registration and voting procedures, (put into effect decades ago to thwart the very chicanery the GOP is now employing across the land) and then refused to get involved in tamping down political gerrymandering, their message was loud and clear: we are at the mercy of right-wing extremists determined to prevent as many brown people as possible from achieving citizenship and voting.
Devious state legislatures burning the candle at both ends devising new torturous strategies to prevent citizens from voting have replaced Bull Connor-esque physical brutality. It is insidious, and in this case a slap in the face to the solid majority of Floridians who voted to restore voting rights to people who have paid their debt to society. This is a gussied-up poll tax.
19
Why Are Florida Republicans So Afraid of People Voting?
Because when votes actually count for something... they’re restricted and controlled. It’s as simple as that.
8
Maybe Progressive Democrats should be raising money to help pay off these fines and court costs instead of defending illegal immigrants. It shows where their priorities are. It is more important to help a person who violated our immigration laws than it is to help Americans who have their civil rights breached. Of course Jeff Bezos could pay off all of those fine with a quarter of a billion dollars. I think his wealth increases by that much every month.
6
@Michael Green
Maybe Trumpette supporters should be raising money to buy back all the assault weapons when the next President orders all of them removed from every American household because of the National Emergency that gun violence wages on us.
Identify Florida's counties where a few additional votes would help Democrats. Then have Tom Steyer and George Soros pay the fines for disenfranchised (mostly Black) voters and win county, state seats and the presidential election. Be creative to defeat the anti-democratic forces in Florida.
18
I live in Florida. Over the past twenty years the state has become embarrassingly discriminatory on the basis of wealth, and thus also of color. If you are stopped by the police and you have money you get off. If you are poor, and particularly if you are poor and black, you get a felony conviction. A million and a half Floridians are permanently disenfranchised. By some miracle more then two-thirds of Floridians voted to end this injustice, but the Republican governor and the Republicans who control both houses of the legislature voted to overturn it, allowing only wealthy ex-felons, most of them Republicans, to vote. And for good measure the Republicans have now practically eliminated voter initiatives and gerrymandered the state. It's easy to stay in power if the only people you allow to vote are the ones who vote for you. It means the destruction of democracy, but that is a small price to pay for the prize of total and permanent power.
24
Are there no Go Fund Me and other efforts to help these otherwise eligible people become voters?
7
"So many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome: good government. They want everybody to vote. I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
Paul Weyrich, co-founder of the Heritage Foundation.
At least he was honest about it.
15
This is deplorable, and anti-democratic. But for the current brand of the GOP, it's just another Tuesday. And I'll also add: the GOP has stopped even bothering to promote any meaningful ideas for new voters to ponder, as these tactics (disenfranchisement, suppression, gerrymandering, judge-packing, census-tinkering, etc.) are easier and cheaper to perpetrate, and pay dividends years after the GOP members may have left office. They deserve the ash heap of history, if that.
12
A simple question with a simple answer
When people vote, Democrats win.
The ONLY way for Republicans to continue to illegitimately govern against the expressed will of the American people is to cheat.
Because Republicans do not share American values of representative democracy, justice, rule of law, equality or freedom they choose cheating.
13
"Why Are Florida Republicans So Afraid of People Voting?
There’s no other logical explanation for the effective poll tax that lawmakers recently passed."
All we have to do is look at the record republicans have built in Florida and the nation. From the days of Richard Nixon and Watergate and all of his people who went to jail for their crimes on up to today, there is one case after another of elected republicans putting themselves and their party before any consideration of the American people.
Newt Gingrich and his lack of ethics.
Dennis Hastert and his "Hastert Rule" to keep Democrats out of the legislative process.
George W. Bush and his questionable election.
Ronald Reagan and his lack of ethics administration.
John Boehner and his republican party of NO!
Paul Ryan and his "budgets" and tax cuts for the rich.
Mitch McConnell and his bigotry toward Obama.
Trump and his lies and alleged crimes.
The Trump tax cut for the rich and big business and crumbs for the rest of Americans.
The republicans can not win a fair and honest election with their record.
9
I did not realize that some felons - murderers and sex offenders - were not included in the restoration of voting rights. I see no logic in it. In many countries in Europe and in Israel, felons vote in prison, regardless of the severity of their crimes. Voting is not a privilege but a right of every citizen. As long as the criminal retains his citizenship, he should have the right to vote. This said, I am in favor of criminals working to provide restitution to their victims, even if they have to work their entire lives. I have no pity for the people profiled in this article, and would not spare a single dollar to make their lives better. They reap what they sowed. But as a matter of general principle, I believe they have the right to vote.
4
@Mor
For 230-400 years the ruling class has systematically and disproportionately disenfranchised poor, mostly Minority Americans from their rights and the ability to vote is the key to maintaining that disengagement.
5
My younger brother was a convicted felon here in Florida but he died 3 years ago. He never was able to exercise his constitutional right to vote. His charges were mostly misdemeanor offenses, but in 2002 he was sentenced as a habitual traffic offender which is a felony. His inability to be an adult and vote was always demoralizing to him. I hope the state Republicans lose this battle.
8
How about billionaires Steyer and Bloomberg creating a non- political debt relief fund in Florida with the purpose of providing opportunities to disenfranchised felons? Wouldn’t that be a fitting way to give back to the democracy that allowed you to become as wealthy as you are?
4
@Daniel B
It seems like a good idea but why should wealthy American patriots be on the hook for paying Republic Party POLL TAXES ?
7
@Daniel B
I agree with this.
No one is afraid of voters who are qualified to vote. We citizens are urged to vote and all we do these days can be taxed, voting included.
I think the question that remains for The Editorial Board is: "Why are Florida Democrats so welcoming of illegal votes?"
Listening to the Democratic cabal of 2020 candidates, it's clear to all of us that electing such a Democrat means a promise they can't keep without a more burgeoning budget.
Thank goodness for the Republicans who eschew such nonsense.
1
@Lake. woebegoner
Would that be the reason the Federal debt has mushroomed over theist two years? (Since the Republicans "eschew such nonsense." ?) I'm curious, tough, why you believe restoring voting rights to people who have served their time and been released from prison makes them "illegal voters?"
4
@Lake. woebegoner
Just FYI, undocumented immigrants are not allowed to vote in America.
Also FYI, Republic Congreases enacted legislation causing more than 80% of the current $22 Trillion National Debt.
Talk about nonsense.
2
@Lake. woebegoner
Republicans created a budget deficit that is over $1 Trillion per year.
Want to try again?
4
In his acceptance speech when elected Florida Senate President after the passage of this amendment, Bill Galvano said “The people of this state have added their own agenda through amendments to our constitution. We have both opportunity and work to do in implementing them. I expect that we will work diligently with our partners in the House to fulfill the will of the people."
Another boldface Republican lie.
11
A pal and I recently found ourselves in a movie theatre watching "Crawl," a goofy formulaic scare flick about Florida gators hunting Floridians in rising hurricane waters.
At this point, I'm hoping it's a metaphoric foretelling of how destructive creatures - taking great advantage of one of Florida's crises - attack but (spoiler alert coming) ultimately fail to destroy all that's good.
2
Tom Steyer should pay off all the fines for all these poor people and forget running for president. Maybe he should fund voter registration drives in other states, too.
It would be a much better investment with a more predicatable outcome.
4
These criminals must literally "pay" for their crimes, who can argue with that? Make full restitution and your rights are restored, what's so hard to understand. The citizens of Florida should be made whole from all costs related to their crime(s). It's relatively modest money, It's not like they are being billed for the incarceration costs, which the taxpayers fund, at about $20K / year. Finally the old adage applies, Don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine(s).
2
Republicans spend all their time gaming the system. If they had good ideas that would work, but the simply don't.
I believe and evidence shows they are the party of wealth (they will say corporations) and have two ideals. Put as many christian judges on the bench to tell us how to live, and transfer as much money as possible out of the treasure (think privatized prisons, military). Unfortunately the christian base likes being told who to love and what healthcare you should have.
7
How else can they disenfranchise? I’m starting to lose faith.
4
The worst part of all of this is that someone who tries to register to vote can be arrested and sentenced to five years because she didn't know she was ineligible under the draconian state rules. And - likely deliberately - there seems to be no easy way to find out a person's eligibility. Republicans know that this is an effective way to scare the pants off of anyone who wants to try to exercise their franchise.
Republican lawmakers fight true democracy because letting the great unwashed vote challenges the power of the wealthy. A voters' rights organization would do well to set up shop and help people with convictions to pay off their fines and register to vote. This would be a good project for a wealthy donor who is not a corrupt Republican. After all this is Florida - it could make the difference in 2020.
8
Republicans know they cannot win elections without blocking voters, gerrymandering and other election manipulation. They are desperate.
6
By Any Means Necessary.
That’s the motto of the Republican Party.
A party bankrupt of ideas... other than inflicting pain and misery on ‘others’ as a way of satisfying their base.
10
Republican Florida senator Rick Scott and former governor was CEO for a hospital network charged with $1.7 billion for Medicare fraud.
The $300,000,000 he was given to leave as CEO, allowed him to buy the governor's office.
He can still vote, and along with DeSantis, will do everything he can to make sure the rest of us can't.
He's a crook. But he's a republican crook, so it's Ok.
Business as usual.
13
The voters in Florida were told that this would be the result. The ACLU said so before the vote. To do otherwise is bait and switch.
2
The history goes back much further, but start with Al Gore's loss to Bush in 2000 by the Republican dominated SC. It was subsequently determined that Gore has won Florida.
Florida is a state where the minority rules, and is a microcosm for the banana republic that is now the US.
8
As the late President George H.W. was quoted as saying, "do you think I'd leave something as important as that up to chance?"
3
Republicans do not really believe in democracy anymore. They believe in voter suppression, disenfranchisement, and foreign intervention to prop up their minority rule and undermine our democracy.
They are not even particularly ashamed about their slide into fascism. Rather, they gloat about their ability to tarnish our democratic traditions.
It not only can happen here, it IS happening here.
9
Because Florida's 29 Electoral College votes will decide next 2020 Presidential who will be occupant of White House. Out of PA, MI, WI and OH played a major role in last election. If Joe Biden becomes Democratic nominee he will definitely take PA and possibly two more states like MI & OH. It appears Joe will focus on those Rust Belt states & FL. Donald Trump himself did not thought that he will WIN in last election.
1
This is the new Republican party, cheat, move the goal posts and put party over country. If reabilitation is a goal of encarseration and the person has paid their debt to society then I'd argue they have regain Ed the right to vote. This article has several other valid points but in the end Republican's and Florida have lost all credibility with me, I will avoid both!
6
If you're a citizen, you should get to vote, no matter what... but more important, if you're really American, you should want every other American to be allowed to vote, too.
If we want to call ourselves free and fair, we have to eliminate gerrymandering, support the popular vote, and make the voting ballot available to every American... even those with a criminal past... and even those in jail.
Voting should be a right, not a privilege. And if you feel otherwise, what's wrong with your ideology that you're afraid to put it to a popular vote?
8
A criminal has not repaid his/her debt to society when she/he has not paid court-ordered restitution to a crime victim. I see nothing unfair about denying such a criminal the right to vote.
2
@Cato
Yeah, especially that 4% interest the State tacks on every month.
Can you say POLL TAX?
3
The republican party of trump has clearly come out of the closet and is no longer feigning interest in fairness and honor. Their bows to racism and voter suppression, along with their destruction of American institutions, is in plain sight. It is just sad and hopefully a call to action.
6
It's the only way they stay in power, in any state.
5
Florida: why limit restriction on voting to felons? Why not restrict all registered voters that owes fines, including traffic fines, and delinquent property taxes?
Arizona, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida & Washington all have restrictions on voting if outstanding fines for felons. Draconian laws.
3
It's all about power and demographics. Those covered by Amendment 4 without Republican interference may just vote to remove the Republicans in control. Imagine the right to vote and democracy in full view. The shame should be on those Cuban-American legislators who's ancestors escaped Communism to embrace democracy and their children are now anti-democratic.
5
Why Are Florida Republicans So Afraid of People Voting?
Why are all Republicans afraid of people voting?
6
It’s incredible that Florida gave Jeffrey Epstein a slap on the hand but is able to take the right to vote from those who are not able to make a payoff. Florida needs to rethink what fairness means.
6
I've got to think that voting rights is the least of the issues most formally incarcerated people have. I also believe that the majority of people don't care, either. If the democrats want to put this issue out front...good luck! On the other hand, the monetary fines border on the absurd and are the #1 issue for the majority of people.
Anger!! Not mentioned, Florida allows private debt collection firms to add up to a 40 percent surcharge on unpaid court debt; the state routinely suspends driver’s license for failure to make payments, a practice that sets the debtor up for a vicious cycle of “driving with a suspended license” convictions; and on and on, all a well thought-out legal system in FL and other states that promotes a self-perpetuating cycle of debt for persons re-entering society after incarceration, and denies citizens the right to VOTE!
6
[Republicans] "know that when you can’t win on your ideas, you win by undermining democracy." Yes, they certainly do. The GOP bills itself as the party of Lincoln, after a heroic figure who would turn cartwheels in his grave if he could see what "his" party is doing now.
The Republican Party has become the party of flaming, fearful racism. I apologize for the strong language, but this is what it is. In another, more reasonable column, one NYT columnist averred that not all Trump supporters are racist.
Sorry, but yes they are. We have seen so much racial animus from a lifetime of Trumpian behavior that supporting him, if only by voting, confers the badge of bigotry on those enabling voters. There is no other way around it.
7
While it is obvious that voter suppression is the obvious answer what i find more distressing is conservative Republican legislators willingness to defy the will of a state's voters--in other words making "democracy" meaningless. Florida is not the only state this has happened--Utah, i believe passed a referendum on Medicaid for all but it has been overridden by the legislators; in Missouri a ban on puppy mills passed the voters but was overturned by legislators....and we think we live in a democracy. One man, one vote is dead.
6
Requiring ex-felons to pay all fines is not the only tactic Republicans are using in Florida. They also are trying to pass an obscure law that says a voting place has to have a "sufficient amount of non-permitted parking". Meaning, its a great effort to make sure there are no voting places on college campuses.
Also consider that Florida was one of the states warned by the FBI about election tampering in 2016, but did nothing. Is it just a coincidence that the then current governor - Rick Scott - was in a tight race for a Senate seat against incumbent Bill Nelson, or that Andrew Gillum was making even a stronger play for Dems to take back the governorship? Georgia was getting all the attention for even more malicious behavior in its governor's race, but Florida was quietly doing the same.
Remember, this is the state where the a guy that put up TV ads teaching his toddler children how to build a wall and fire people became governor. And where the current labor secretary quietly shut down the investigation into Epstein. A great state to flip though as the Republicans are hanging by a thread, evident from the inane attempts to stop people from voting.
8
If this law cannot be struck down before the 2020 election, then I believe that there are enough wealthy Democrats that these fines can be paid off with forgiven loans. Super wealthy Republicans like the Koch brothers are willing to buy the government they want. Democrats need to start leveling that playing field.
In the digital world we can set up a new version of "Each one, Teach one" and we can call it "Each one , Reach one". Locate the individuals who have been pushed out of society and bring them back in. That is what Democracy looks like.
11
People who are imprisoned are giving up much of their lives by having lost time at work, in the family and society--the right to vote is not predicated on whether one is free or incarcerated.
What's really chilling about this obviously politically motivated "fine" system being connected to voting is the obvious: control by Republicans forcing voting in their favor by default, not legality. This is not democracy, but instead smacks of "totalitarian light".
This is further seriously exacerbated by the blatant gerrymandering and other forms of voter suppression that have taken hold in recent years, disproportionately affecting citizens already struggling economically--why should they suffer civilly as well?
And who is to stop these sorts of actions when the courts are now so heavily weighted in favor of "conservatives"--a dubious label when it really just comes down to a dangerous right-wing whittling away at constitutional values and legal distinctions. We're in deep trouble now.
We're being railroaded by a cadre of highly manipulative people who must be stopped through legal means. Yet one more reason to get ourselves in the streets (yet again) with loud protest against our democracy being systematically dismantled.
Although certainly important, this isn't just about prisoners, or people who've been released from prison: it's about the rule of law, in this case--the very crucial right to the vote.
8
If this law cannot be struck down before the 2020 election, then I believe that there are enough wealthy Democrats that these fines can be paid off with forgiven loans. Super wealthy Republicans like the Koch brothers are willing to buy the government they want. Democrats need to start leveling that playing field.
In the digital world we can set up a new version of "Each one, Teach one" and we can call it "Each one , Reach one". Locate the individuals who have been pushed out of society and bring them back in. That is what Democracy looks like.
9
Applying this standard evenly to all Floridians, the state should deny voting rights to people with unpaid parking and traffic violations, unpaid taxes, and other unpaid obligations to the state. Of course the people who made this law were interested in limiting the voting rights of only some (!) otherwise qualified voters.
9
Disenfranchisement is a pillar of republican politics and absolutely critical to their grasp on power. As others have pointed out they have stopped trying to hide it.
11
Another example of where the people of Florida have spoken and voted to have these rights restored then only to be overridden again by Republicans because they don’t like it. Republicans do not follow the will of the people.
13
The arc toward progress struggles to be of the people, for the people and by the people most when the politicians pick the voters in this experiment in the republican form of government.
The version began with a select few, men with property, and excluded Native Americans, the Enslaved and Indentured Classes, and Women .
The men did not give it up until either the Constitution was amended or 20th Century legislation. As evidenced now, there is a move to take it back.
Women should be cautious though.
6
What defines an operational participatory democracy? Apparently, in America it's about what more and more is coming to identify this country. An elitist society. A dynamic in force demonstrated by the topic of this article spotlighting the restriction of voting rights in Florida. As this article reveals, most of those confined to prisons are the poor. After serving their term and on their release they are still going to be poor. Denying them the right to vote by imposing monetary demands they can't meet is another form of punishment. Because bottom line what does his ultimately message about American society? A country where being poor is in itself a crime.
5
I am white and old. Born and raised in Michigan, lived as an adult in Colorado. I have voted in every election since I was able to, including by absentee ballot when living out of the country. Always registered as an independent I vote issues and candidates, not party.
Except in 2018, when the Republican Clay County Elections Supervisor used an obscure argument to deny myself and as many as 1700 others the ability to register to vote. We are full time RV-er's and people who live on boats. We use a mail forwarding service located in Clay county as our official address. His argument was we did not actually "live" in his county, i.e. own or rent property, and had never done so. Of course we had paid sales taxes and were paying our yearly vehicle taxes (on our "homes") to the county and most have driver's licenses issued by the county.
We were notified by the business of his decision to not allow us to register July 5, 2018. His opinion was backed up by an official opinion letter issued by the Secretary of State, which said he or any Elections Supervisor in any County in Florida could make a similar interpretation fo the law on the books. No one else did.
When challenged by lawyers hired by the mail forwarding business he backed down, but not until October 19, days before the election, and so past the 30 day time limit to register. So for the first time in my 69 years of living in the U.S. I was not allowed to register to vote.
See how it is done? Delay tactics = no vote
34
Of course, the Floridians who have declared bankruptcy because they owe under-water mortgages, student loans, failed businesses, etc. are entitled to vote because their debts were wiped off the ledger.
16
"Florida Republicans, like their counterparts in other states and in Washington, D.C., are becoming increasingly comfortable with the perks of minority rule, like the ability to disregard what the majority of voters demand. They appear to know that when you can’t win on your ideas, you win by undermining democracy."
The final paragraph of this story will be the epitaph of the entire Trump presidency.
23
The final paragraph may be the epitaph for representative democracy in the United States.
2
‘They [Republicans] appear to know that when you can’t win on your ideas, you win by undermining democracy.’
That’s the defining principle behind the whole host of their voter suppression tactics. Or as David Frum noted, if conservatives come to believe they can’t win democratically, the won’t give up conservatism, they’ll give up on democracy.
12
Voting should be limited by various requirements of education, literacy, property, etc., as in 19th century Europe, to ensure that people who vote are capable of voting. Republics need this to survive; democracies don't. We are a Republic.
2
@n1789 By property? Are you serious? We already have a stealth corporate oligarchy, but you want the US to become a frank oligarchy?
3
Who sets and implements your aristocratic standards? Who insures the rules are fairly enforced? Your local GOP? Or the "deep state" your team has claimed as it's bogeyman? And if we go this route can we include a civics class to teach the likes of you on the real structure of our government? Enough of this tossing around the world republic as a way to install your version of a government not of, by, and for We the People.
2
And I am willing to venture a guess that you meet these standards.
2
How much is owed to Florida? Perhaps targeted financial support to the debtors would be highly effective.
10
Many red states are simply thumbing their noses at the directives from their constituents.
For example, Idaho voters passed an initiative that directed the GOP controlled statehouse and governor to implement Medicaid under the ACA clean and complete.
The GOP politburo has spent nearly two years refusing to do anything like that, even declaring the desperate voters who supported this measure by a 63% majority didn't know what they were voting for.
As the Republicans often like to say, 'America is not a democracy', and they seem determined to prove themselves correct!
25
I think there certainly is a logical explanation for why Republicans in general want to suppress voting: the more people who vote the better the chances are for Democrats. That's the simple and perfectly understandable explanation.
20
The Supreme Court has basically ruled that even the most absurd gerrymandered voting districts are a "states right" issue. The Republican Party isn't even subtle anymore in their actions to rig elections. They can't win a majority of the votes so they invent ways to restrict voting systems so they can rule as a minority party. If people who believe in the concept of majority rule don't rise up and vote in such huge numbers in 2020 and sweep the republicans out of office en masse we are heading towards the rule of the 1% over the 99%. "It can never happen here" is always the first words of people who eventually find themselves under the thumb of dictators.
35
Republicans will never let go of Florida. They elected a governor who stole millions from Medicare then took over the state and refused to do anything about climate change. So they made him a senator. They use whatever tactics they can to swing elections - 2000 was the practice run and the last one demonstrated that it's working. 2018 was the year of voters who just disappeared from the rolls. They never had any intention of letting the former prisoners vote, that's too many people of color who actually might want to do good things in Florida to send to the voting booths. What's incredible is how they get away with it.
36
Voter suppression is easier than convincing people to vote against their own best interests, and it takes lots of both for Republicans to make it look like they won an election. The Electoral College and the Supreme Court can hand it to them, but for the sake of appearances, they prefer to only lose by, for instance, 2.7 million votes. Beyond that people might start doing something besides typing in all caps on Facebook and Twitter.
15
It’s a shame that the US courts allow elected politicians to prevent citizens from voting, and allow them to gerrymander electoral maps to render the idea of one person one vote irrelevant.
I guess that such basic principles of democracy were never written into the Constitution and thus the courts are unable to protect them.
15
The editorial cites the case of a college not giving a diploma is student loans are not paid. This analogy is incorrect. The analogy should be not giving a diploma if tuition and library fines and dorm fees are not paid. Most colleges do NOT give a diploma till all the money owed to the college is paid. The college does not care if money is owed to a third party like a bank. Similarly Florida will enfranchise you if you take out a loan and pay your fines.
3
@Sk I hope one of those billionaires has the guts to pay of all those fines so former inmates can vote. Wow what a surprise that would be. After all many of those billionaires get around paying none or less than the average worker percentage wise in taxes. What with all the loop holes they got and the recent tax breaks that sets the country back another 1.5 trillion in debt that then the average worker has to pay. Can the average citizen not see what these guys are up to?
3
@Sk - "Similarly Florida will enfranchise you if you take out a loan and pay your fines."
How many people getting out of prison, without a job, would qualify for a loan?
2
@Sk what if there was no Central record of what you owed the college? What if you didn't know for sure that you'd paid all your debts? What if the college could throw you in jail for five years for asking for your diploma while having outstanding debts?
Anyway, the two things aren't the same. A diploma is something you earn. It isn't a fundamental right like voting should be. It's pretty clear that this law wasn't written in good faith. This is about voter suppression for political gain.
3
If all residents of Florida registered to vote and actually went to the polls we would then have increased voter turnout. Easy. No. Talk to the young adults who don't vote and don't care. Their excuse: "My vote doesn't matter." Try to convince them it does. Walk them to the polls, take them to register make sure they vote, then tip them. Remove the obstacles so that ex-felons can vote and they will turn out at the polls. The way to get Florida's attention is to ruin the tourist industry or at least threaten to.
11
@Ellen F. Dobson
Actually, I live in Washington State, and my vote in presidential elections doesn't matter. It's a blue state, regardless of my vote. Hardly any campaigning goes on here. Candidates don't show up at OUR state fair. The main votes that matter are in a few counties in I think Michigan Pennsylvania and Florida?
8
We are told that we are in a democracy but it seems more a mobocracy of lawmakers and people with deep pockets. Look at the presidential elections, those who can raise millions and millions can have a chance to get elected but not those common Joe. Majority of lawmakers speak the language of companies and bullies who have funded their campaign. For tiny mistakes people are imprisoned for years. That is not enough! When they are freed, they are denied their only right--voting. What kind of a democratic system is it? I come from one of the underdeveloped countries, but the political system is not this much brutal!
15
Dems need to wake up about Florida. Trump wins if they can't recapture that state.
Trump won FLA by just 112,911 votes out of 9.6 million cast
271, 442 votes went to Jill Stein and Gary Johnson-
these third parties gave the state to Trump
Only 30 percent, repeat , THIRTY PERCENT , of votes cast were on election day at the polls.
The rest were early voting, by mail and provisional.
IMAGINE the potential for FRAUD folks
2.7 MILLION ballots are handled by mail carriers.
There are 67 counties in Florida each with their own election officials--some with personal agendas
This is where the battle is won or lost folks
20
Really? Because they are highly likely to vote against them. It's the Jim Crow era redux. Christ, it's the Secession all over again. Due to the color bias in US justice, convicted felons are more likely to be people of color, who are more likely to vote Democratic. Why does this need to be parsed? Republicans have marginalized people of color since Reagan, if not earlier. The shift took place after the Dixiecrats rebelled against Johnson's Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. Nothing new here. And talk about consequences: the staunchly conservative federal courts (thanks to McConnell and Trump) won't come to the aid of the disenfranchised.
17
I was taught in school that I lived in a democracy, but have become disillusioned in recent years. I don’t see either party reflecting my views and regard most politicians as bought. My Uncle Bill - at age 87 ten years older than me and a lifelong Republican -couldn’t vote for Trump- just as I couldn’t vote for Clinton. I guess it’s a dream to wish for real representation in our country, as it is now so corrupted by corporate/1% campaign donations. And the candidate I want has the press and the Democratic leadership against him. Very discouraging.
5
I have been following the election protests in Moscow closely. A lot of very brave people are risking vicious beatings and long prison sentences for nothing more than their presence on the streets. My point? Draw inspiration from them. No surrender to the Republican bullies and cheats. Winning this one is not that far away. Keep fighting.
23
I would not doubt for one moment that Republicans have an appreciation for how Machiavellian the Florida Legislature is.
16
I would not doubt for one moment that Republicans have an appreciation for how Machiavellian the Florida Legislature is.
4
Given the margins of victory in political races, and the number of voters Republicans are trying keep from the polls, it's pretty clear why Republicans are afraid of democracy. It's the reason for voter ID laws, Jim-Crow style voter taxes, restrictions of voting hours, disenfranchisement campaigns, gerrymandering, and the rest of their war on voters.
29
One person of voting age, one vote. No exceptions, period.
27
Why not just have a $500 voting tax, and allow individuals to vote as many times as they can afford to? I mean, isn't this the real intent of the Citizens United decision anyway - that money is speech?
The fact is, the GOP knows that with an even playing field, they would be voted into extinction within a generation.
51
I voted for Amendment 4, and I very disappointed with the actions of the
Legislature and Governor in violating the spirit of Amendment 4. That is the reason why I never vote for a Republican
for State Government.
38
Eight years of Rick Scott wasn’t enough?
1
Republicans know they can’t win elections fairly, so they are turning to increasingly desperate and extreme voter suppression measures to try to maintain power. I mean, poll taxes? In 2019?
And now that they’ve established a far-right Supreme Court willing to endorse obviously anti-democratic partisan-advantage strategies like extreme gerrymandering, it’s not clear how to stop them.
Those of us who can still vote must turn out in extreme numbers in November of 2020 to try to stop this corrupt minority party while it is still possible.
45
Republicans treat voting like Trump treats immigration. Make it hard enough and harsh enough and you will deter people from exercising their lawful rights.
There is something odious about the way Republicans openly plan to exclude those who do not agree with them. Instead of developing policies that people like, they restrict the number of voters to those that look like them.
What is it about democracy they don't like? Can it be the people?
33
They have no interest in democracy. It’s all about exploiting the planet, exploiting others. Taking as much as they can get and giving nothing back. There is no limit to the deviousness and immorality.
5
I moved from Michigan to Florida 14 years ago. I live in RED Lee County. I vote BLUE in every election. I am disgusted by the Florida legislature who overrode the ballot vote of its citizens to restore the voting rights of 1.4 million people. Republicans just don’t care what the vast majority want.
47
It’s not just Florida Republicans working to disenfranchise voters. All republicans are doing it. State legislatures, governors, donors, the judiciary up to the USSC, Congress. All working together to scrub voter rolls, disincentivize registration, narrow voting windows, increase identity hurdles under fake accusations of fraud, engage in and excuse gerrymandering, resist bills with voter protections and digital security.
Without all of this, they would be a minority party as their older, white, male base continues to shrink.
60
Republicans are the masters of manipulation of the voting process and voter restrictions targeting minorities. Florida is ground zero for them because of it's impact on presidential elections. In the past particularly under Governor Scott it was virtually impossible to regain the right to vote. Now after Florida voters overwhelming voted for ex-felon voter rights Governor DeSantis a Trump follower like Scott is trying a backdoor way to defy the voters and restrict ex-felon voting. This effects primarily blacks who are typically democrats. Hopefully the state Supreme Court will overrule the governor.
1
The party in power is making it more difficult for new voters to register and vote, it’s not fair but is it unexpected?
The easiest way is to go around the republican machine rather than fight it head on.
I would think a go fund me page that benefits paying off the republican voter tax would be a good idea.
27
Republicans have lost the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections and they won’t win it anytime soon.
In an increasingly diverse country, the GOP is still 90% white today... so it’s no surprise that voter suppression is their last resort for political survival.
43
In the last 7 elections just Trump and George W. Bush, in the 2000 election, lost the popular vote but won the election. Not that that isn’t enough to tell you that something is very very wrong. Both of these men, illegitimately elected in my opinion, have inflicted real and lasting damage on our country and the world.
9
The amendment passed specified that former prisoners could vote after completing their assigned punishments. Any fines or fees assessed by the court are a part of their assigned punishments. The bill passed by the legislature simply clarifies the wording of the amendment, as is the function of a legislative body.
5
@
Michaelscody
“Also, because Florida keeps no centralized statewide database of legal debt, potential voters are left largely on their own to determine what they owe and whether they might be breaking the law by trying to register.”
This does not appear to be the intent of The People.
18
@michaelscody The amendment that the Republican Party passed is to disenfranchise former prisoners-- potential democratic party voters--who served their prison time. So please don't pretend this amendment is somehow reasonable and justifiable. The Republican Party is now about ending whatever democracy remains in this country.
14
@Oliver
I strongly suspect that the court told the people at sentencing how much they owed. The person should know how much he paid. If the later is not equal to the former, they owe money. Not rocket science.
Illinois Democrats by comparison, have no concerns about Republicans voting. Democrats have gerrymandered the state in a way that makes it impossible for Republicans to control the State Legislature.
3
You will find that is true in almost every red state too. The party that has had power the longest is loath to give it up. Which is why districts should be set up by non-political systems.
28
@Richard Winchester That doesn’t make either state right, does it?
24
@Richard Winchester
From what I’ve read, gerrymandering has indeed been used by both parties, but far more blatantly and far more pervasively by the GOP. They have also recently reduced the power of the governor after losing the governorship (in Wisconsin, among others) in addition to various other sleazy, undemocratic manoeuvres.
So pretend that both parties play dirty pool if you want to. You would not be 100% wrong, but neither is the person who argues that cancer and the common cold are both unpleasant.
1
I'm quite struck by the Press' infatuation with the rights of criminals while dismissing the rights of law abiding citizens. Significant space is dedicated to the plight of individuals criminals whose lives may be turned around whereas there is virtually no effort spent writing about the devastation spread by criminals in jail. The throw-away-line, that a criminal released from jail is now absolved of all sin in no way is true. Jail is meant to deter and is not meant as some sort of trade that where you can do bad things and this is compensation to society. Further, the punishment including loss of voting rights if you fail to repay a fine is part of the punishment not some added penalty. Recently, there are laws that are being proposed to prevent criminal records from being known at time of employment. The last thing I would want for my children is to have them sitting next to a violent offender who is now invisible. We have far more important matters than restoring voting rights to criminals.
16
Well said Chris. The politically aligned spend way too much energy to gain any edge to get their candidates elected when there are much more important issues and topics to work on.
While I share your intent for personal accountability, the issue here is not to forgive all sins. Financial debt is one more way to maintain an unlevel playing field and it is being used to curtail voting rights. When simply having a record wasn’t enough, voting suppression implemented plan B with the same intent. This is not about punishment or accountability, and even less about protecting your loved one from anyone.
27
@Chris, you're the one dismissing the will of the law abiding citizens that voted for this amendment. It's quite clear what the intention was.
26
The Republicans know they can’t win a federal election (Presidential, House or Senate) if it is fair and open. So they installed gerrymandering and voter suppression. Owning the Presidency and the Senate majority, they are on a historical crusade to nominate and confirm judges that are in favor of them and their distortion of democracy, thus cementing a system the Democrats will have trouble to crack. The longer the Democrats can’t win the Senate the more difficult it becomes for them to win the Presidency.
24
"Imagine if you weren’t allowed to get your college diploma until you’d paid off your student loans."
At most schools you won't get your diploma until you've paid all your remaining debt to the institution - unpaid tuition, fees, library fines, parking tickets, etc.
I'm not sure what keeps Florida Republicans "like their counterparts in other states and in Washington, D.C." (translation: Republicans everywhere) from conditioning voting on all sorts of debts being paid. How about taxes? What if everyone that owes taxes are disenfranchised? All this is just a poll tax. Debts are a civil obligation and should have nothing to do with the right to vote that is given to every citizen.
33
This is a huge problem for many students
The owe a school money and want to finish their education so they can make more money to pay off these debts
Schools will not release transcripts without payment
So the kid is stuck at a low paying job
@Bob
How about being told by the hospital that you cannot take your newborn home until all of the bills are paid? Or, you cannot live in your home until the mortgage is paid off?
Let's simply tie voting rights to money in every arena. That should keep the riff-raff from voting and ensure that America is a country by the wealthy and for the wealthy.
2
@Bob There’s a constitutional right to vote, not receive a diploma.
While the efforts of Republicans leaders to limit voting mirrors, in many ways, the feelings many of the Founding Fathers had, most of our country has evolved from that to a wider acceptance of the idea that a citizen should have a much greater say in how their country is run.
When our country was founded, you mostly had to have enough property, and be male, to vote. And even so, you voted mostly for members of the House of Representatives. State legislatures picked who would be Senators, and the Electoral College was seen as a bulwark against a demagogue becoming President by separation from the popular vote (a reverse of what we have today).
Well, former slaves received the vote in the 13th Amendment, women received it with the 19th Amendment, the voting age was lowered in the 26th Amendment, and the removal of poll taxes in the 24th Amendment happened, all a part of extending the vote to all citizens. Yet, in spite of all of this, Republicans seem to want to make sure that only the votes of white American men are the only ones which really count. If the Republicans are so enamored of those past ideas, I recommend they leave this land and go back to where their ancestors come from, a monarchical Europe.
42
Not surprising. I lived in FL from 2002 - 2005 and the efforts to suppress the vote were ongoing from the smallest town to the state level. Fliers papering neighborhoods telling people the wrong date of the election or threatening that if they attempted to vote and were behind in paying their bills, they'd be arrested. Roadblocks set up to make it more inconvenient to get to polling places. Fewer polling places. It was endless. I didn't believe that stuff actually happened in the South until I saw it with my own eyes. I knew that when the people voted to restore voting rights to people who'd served their sentences that the the Republicans in the legislature and whatever crooked Republican governor was in place would find a means to stop the people from voting. Jeb Bush lead the way with disenfranchising thousands before the 2000 election which was stolen from Al Gore, Rick Scott continued it with suppressing the number of people who appealed to have their voting rights restored by holding few review sessions, and now DeSantis has continued the tradition by signing a low to further oppress minorities and the poor from being able to vote.
62
As David Frum said, "If Conservatives cannot win elections democratically, they will not give up Conservatism, they will give up democracy."
84
@Jim Dennis Today's Republicans are far from classic conservatism. They are Radical Right Wingers, just as bad as Belsheviks and Communists were on the left.
1
There are a couple of concrete things that could be done with the millions that are raised for political campaigns instead of wasting them on inane advertisements.
One would be to pay off fines to restore voter rights.
Another would be to purchase enough memberships in the NRA to put it out of the death-promotion business and restore its mission to promoting gun safety.
With some strategic thinking, Democrats could actually change the shape of politics and policy in this country.
33
The Florida GOP is fully aware that that this reinstitution of voting rights would be the death knell of their party in the state and perhaps nationally. The more so after this shameful backdoor means of thwarting the clear intent of the voter's will.
It is going to happen though, with some people standing up to pay off the court fees for ex-convicts, and some municipalities converting court debt to community service or simply dismissing it. Hopefully this 'poll tax' law will be set aside by the courts, but our nation needs these voters for next years' election.
30
I would strongly recommend voters who are registered as Democrats or Independents check your voting status before you go and vote. It is reported over 17 million people have been removed from voter rolls, mostly in republican run states.
35
The last half century has witnessed two occasions when democracy seemed to disappear: In the heels of 9/11, and during as well as in the heels of Obama's presidency. The principle of separation of powers is no longer in effect when the Senate majority leader and the Supreme Court are doing the republican administration's bidding. At least this time around, the press is trying to help democracy.
Now some states are doing the same? Where is this leading us? Does anybody care?
11
@Morris G
Def Leppard fan?
“Is anybody out there, anybody there
Does anybody wonder, anybody care
Oh, I just gotta know
If you're really there and you really care..”
Republicans are only afraid of black or brown people, young people, working poor people and most educated people who vote. Everything they say about voting and democracy is either a smoke screen or an outright lie. The republican elite have been engaged in a decades long project to defeat american democracy and lock-in permanent minority rule by the wealthiest few - and they're succeeding without a single legitimate popular mandate.
61
The GOP electoral strategy involves voter suppression by gerrymandering and outright suppression. They are not a viable party without it.
68
"This once was known as a poll tax, which Southern states like Florida used ... to keep their newly freed but still impoverished black citizens from voting."
A sad and offensive, but true, historical relic, except that the Board neglected to mention that not only southern states engaged in this practice. A quick web search shows that, as well, states like California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Vermont and Wisconsin also had them at various times. The constant notion that only Southern states were ever practitioners of racist laws is dishonest and at variance with the historical record, and merely serves to further enhance division within our country. Racist history affected places far and wide in the country over the decades.
5
@George S The difference is that the states you mentioned abandoned the practice as enlightenment descended upon them whereas the Southern states still practice it as part of the Republican, red state strategy to stay in power.
26
@George S Are you engaging whataboutism? Yes, many states did it, but the key issue is which one's are doing it now? Southern states; southern Republican States. Which democratically controlled state is? Ohio, as a purple state, used voter suppression, but only when a Republican was attorney general.
25
@Jim Dennis And don't forget about Wisconsin when Scott Walker was Governor. And when he lost to a Democrat, the Republican legislature tried to hamstring him by passing last-minute roadblock legislation.
22
If you only represent the economic interests of one percent of the population, you naturally don't want real democracy to work. Republicans have a long history of suppressing the vote or otherwise controlling the outcomes of elections. I believe six, maybe only five?, men have become president without winning the popular vote? The last were all Republicans (Trump and Dubya being the real disasters); the other was elected before Republicans existed, but the guy John Quincy Adams beat, Jackson, was sure a Democrat. These guys are good.
19
We see lots of money being wasted on pointless, ego-driven primary campaigns this year. The donors and wealthy candidates can spend their dollars more wisely by creating a charity to help poor people pay these fines off. I'm talking to you, Tom Steyer.
47
@John Hurley
My thoughts exactly. Advertise to the people that there is money available to pay off these fines.
The interesting part is to see how the Republicans respond!
2
@John Hurley
I agree. Also, since Citizens United is the law, I'd like to see some billionaires all pitch in and put billions behind democrats, crush DJT, MM and their ilk.
2
@John Hurley
Told my wife the other night. If Tom Steyer has so much money to waste on a useless run for president, Steyer could give me some of it. I'll put it to better use.
Any felon labor performed in the prison system should be credited with a reasonable wage that would be assessed to the reduction of judicial-imposed fees, costs, and fines imposed.
42
@Stuart
Brilliant. Of course, we don't want this idea out in the mainstream, for fear it might work.
3
How can people get a job when they have a crime on their record?
Society is virtually guaranteeing that people who have gone to jail will return to crime upon release, because they can't get a job with a crime on their record.
28
Why is the New York Times afraid to state the obvious; the Republican Party in general, and Florida's in particular, are afraid to let people vote because the GOP will lose a lot more elections. As it stands, Republicans govern as a minority party that routinely receives fewer votes than the Democrats nationally in all three areas (House, Senate, President) but retains majority due to voter suppression tactics, gerrymandering and an anachronistic Electoral College that owes its genesis to the effort to bring slaveholding states into the union.
The Republican Party knows that if they even lose those "advantages" they will be consigned to that proverbial dustbin of history and that knowledge makes them act in more desperate and authoritarian fashion.
Timid and corporatist Democrats have abetted the situation, however, the Progressive wave is rising aided by GOP excess and fealty to the unconscionable Trump. This may finally be a bridge too far if the Dems can eschew the blandness of Biden and opt for the vision of Elizabeth Warren. We will know shortly.
55
@Barry F. If it is obvious you don't need to state it, but for the record the NYTimes has many many times explicitly described how GOP-led voter restrictions are designed to specifically disenfranchise those who might vote Democratic. I doubt the significance of the Florida restrictions are lost on anyone here.
3
This seems to be a clear case of a poll tax, and thus is unconstitutional. Why has this not been struck down in the courts?
34
Because it isn’t unconstitutional to make felons repay their debts to society including time spent incarcerated, restitution, and court costs in order for them to gain back certain freedoms.
That’s why, I don’t have any other way I can say that more clearly.
Why can’t non violent felons own guns? Is that unconstitutional?
5
@Clio It is working its way through the courts now. But as the writer mentioned, the GOP may expect it to be struck down -- but in the meantime it works to confuse and discourage potential voters.
21
@Clio
If it only passed in June, and there hasn't been an election yet, it is likely because there hasn't been time for the courts to act. No doubt some group is preparing a lawsuit to seek a halt to this. I do wish the NYT had at least mentioned whether or not they were aware of any such action.
2
This otherwise excellent editorial states that the 2000 election for president was decided by 537 votes. It wasn’t. It was decided by the Supreme Court, which stopped the counting. Same intent, same outcome.
56
I live in Florida. The last election was too close for Republicans and so they need to everything they can to turn away voters. The latest polls indicate that voters in our state have had enough of Republicans including Trump. There are more registered Democrats in Florida than Republicans so the Republicans are running scared as Trump talks about cutting Medicare and Social Security. This law will be overturned but the idea behind it is still dangerous
48
It's very simple, the repubs know they will lose elections if they are free and fair. Nothing else needs to be said. They will cheat to win and have done exactly that. They will continue to do it because they can and people who should be able to vote legally will be cut out of the chance because the GOP knows if they are allowed to vote they will lose.
33
@linda fish A party that would align themselves with the Russians and a hacker like Wikileaks to steal a presidential election will do anything to stay in power.
The corruption, lying and cheating by the Republicans starts with Trump and rolls through Congress, the SC and now the Justice Department.
In my town a convicted felon is and has been the head of the local Republican party for years and no one in the GOP is disturbed about that fact. And it's not a rumour -- the NYT covered the conviction when it occurred. These are the kind of people the GOP employs -- people with no scruples, morality or decency.
2
Dont know how to do it, but I'd love to set up a fund or charity that collects donations to pay off those fees and fines for the people who have paid their debt to society and are being punished for a second time...
57
I had the same thought...I would gladly contribute to that fund.
There is already a fund for that in FL. Just look up restoration of rights for felons in FL.
1
For those of you who have expressed interest in helping, please look at the organization
Florida Rights Restoration Coalition ( floridarrc.com) run by Desmond Meade. No need for something new. This organization is already doing it.
1
Guess it’s a good thing that I don’t have any debt, or maybe my state could find a way to disenfranchise me as well. If the courts don’t find a way around this dilemma, and our generous billionaires don’t step up, I’d give to a go fund me and vote for an improved referendum.
42
There is already a fund to which you can contribute to pay off the fines for felons in FL. Look up restoration of voting rights for felons in FL.
1
Florida Republicans are afraid to let some citizens vote because they know they will lose the elections. Now, the governor and legislature have overridden the referendum that would allow ex-convicts to regain their right to vote. And the entire state government should be investigated for suspiciously purging the voter rolls. When every eligible voter votes, Democrats win. Republicans have been denying voting rights for decades. It's time to stop them. It's time to remove them, and take back our government.
77
@ChesBay--The same should be done in Georgia, where the new "governor," and his party, certainly cheated in order to win.
3
Don't be fooled by this editorial when it claims that Florida voters intended to restore voting rights to felons. Florida voters are a cagey bunch. On the one hand, they vote to let felons have their franchise restored because they want to feel good about themselves (giving people a a "second chance," and all that). They wish to believe themselves to be a noble people. On the other, they vote for politicians whom they know will impose the poll tax described in this editorial. I've seen this over and over: they vote for progressive propositions that allow themselves to feel good, but then they vote for the politicians whom they know will minimize or completely negate the impact of these propositions. This way, they can have their cake and eat it too: they can vote for change and rest assured that nothing will change. In the end, the majority of Florida voters care about only two things: keeping taxes low and keeping African Americans in submission.
36
@Chris Gabbard
Rather than hypocrisy on the part of voters, I think the phenomenon of Florida's voters voting for progressive ballot measures and then electing Republican legislators and officials who will squash them is the result of ignorance. Simply, too many people fail to understand that Republican officials and legislators will not act in good faith. Also, gerrymandering plays some role in how much power the Republicans have in Florida.
4
@Chris Gabbard
I feel the same about the gun laws... people in Ohio and Texas, like the rest of the nation, are up-in-arms (pardon the pun) about gun laws... wanting more safety...
Yet ironically, 8 out of 10 people in states like Ohio and Texas, voted in favor of more massacres when they voted republican...
2
I voted for amendment 4. It never mentioned payment of fines as a requirement for restoration of right to vote. The erosion of our democracy continues to advance. Sad that Florida conservatives aren’t appalled by this as I am both.
98
@Greg
It stated that the felons had to complete their assigned punishments. Fines and fees were assigned by the courts as part of their punishments. There was no exemption for the financial part of said punishments, therefore they are included.
1
Florida is, in fact, a southern state. South Florida, where I live, is more diverse, and dare I say liberal; but the rest of the state, with a few exceptions, is Republican. The GOP runs the show here.
Now that the Supreme Court has ruled that the federal government has no business outlawing partisan gerrymandering, I suspect GOP control of state government will last for the foreseeable future. And they will end-run anything passed by referendum that they don't like.
43
The answer to the question the headline poses is easy. That is the only way republicans can win. The column mentions how the 2018 gov and senate races were so close. Former Gov Scott fought tooth and nail to prevent the state laws on the book from being implemented. He fought to prevent recounts! He spread false allegations and dissed the election officials in Broward county. This despite him having had eight years to improve that counties election issues. Going forward he and Sen Rubio must certainly realize that they won’t win another razor thin election without some kind of republican interference in the wishes of the people. I’ve lived here for 15 years. This is the third time a governor, republican, overturned the will of the people. Thanks to Jeb Bush, Florida voters approval for high speed rail construction was overturned. Had to keep the oil flowing until it’s all gone, I guess. Still, it is up to us FL residents to fight to make our votes count
43
@Thomas G let's not ignore the racial component. The GOP is comfortable making common cause with bigots and white nationalists because they both know disenfranchisement is they only way to cling to power in a pluralistic society. The Republican leaders just don't wear sheets.
1
This information is well known but it still makes me really sad to read it. Think of all the horror we could have avoided overseas and in this country now if poor Floridians, and people of color and poverty in other states, were allowed to vote as they are supposed to in the US. We could have avoided the disastrous presidencies of W. Bush and Trump. The suppression of votes in one state attacks all of us.
73
@Anthony Well said. And the three examples of close elections cited above all went to the benefit of the GOP. If Andrew Gillum had won the governorship, this bill would have been vetoed (not sure if they could've over-rode it.) Still, with political shenanigans like this re-disenfranchisement, the GOP can only gain dividends for so long from it. It won't last forever, as time and justice are not on their side. I can't/won't give in to cynicism.
11
Restitution is not a tax.
11
@RH, no one is calling it a tax in any modern sense. When you feel conflict about basic rights, think about it this way: If middle class white citizens had their right to vote taken away by the state because of unpaid parking tickets or failure to pay child support, would that be OK?
Remember, these are people who ALREADY paid their debt to society thru prison time. Now, republicans add on extra-judicial punishment and link it to voting. It's NOT restitution thru the legal system; it's voter disenfranchisement. RH, having the right to vote taken away for $1.11 in interest?
52
@RH No, but a surcharge on restitution is a tax
3
@deb
They paid part of their debt to society thru prison time. Now they have to pay the other part. As to the $1.11:
"On top of that, Mr. Miller owes $1,221 in court costs and fines"
3
I thought poll taxes were outlawed during Reconstruction because they interfered with the right to vote. And if Florida can limit those who can vote with a poll tax, then surely California can require a candidate who wants to be put on a ballot in that state to disclose his/her income taxes.
35
@stefanie There have been poll taxes throughout US history, but during Reconstruction a number of Southern states *added* poll taxes to their voting requirements specifically to disenfranchise ex-slaves. The last of these poll taxes were finally abolished with the 24th amendment in 1966.
The other Jim Crow voter restrictions used in some states were citizenship and educational tests; in the most egregious cases, the local officials simply scored the test as "failed" or "passed" based on the color of the registrant and no one could question or even see the scoring method.
4
@stefanie
NOPE!
It was the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that outlawed them.
1
I have so much to say on this topic. Here are a few of my thoughts:
1. The Republican-dominated legislature doesn't invest in children and families. They under-fund public schools, healthcare, including mental health services, and diversion programs.
2. Florida on average incarcerates more people than other states.
3. People with felony convictions have a difficult time getting jobs, signing apartment leases, and qualifying for professional licenses, therefore making it difficult for them to be productive citizens in order to pay fines, fees, and restitution.
4. Fines, fees, and restitution are unequally applied.
5. Democrats outnumber Republicans in voter registration and it's only through gerrymandering and election theft that Republicans are able to hold onto power. (We recently found out that seven counties were connected to the internet during the last election, which we were assured wasn't possible.)
6. Republicans care about nothing but money and power. I sat in a Senate hearing last March when the bill mentioned in the article was heard. The GOP senators seemed very moved by the testimony, but in the end voted in their own self-interest rather than doing the right thing.
87
@Susan S
Yes, they'll listen politely, but ultimately they vote for what's right for the GOP.
25
@Susan S.
7. Released felons have caused more than a billion dollars of damages to their victims. Many can no longer walk. Many have permanent brain damage. Many have PTSD. Some contracted AIDS. Some have a spouse or children who were injured. Some had their homes burned down. Some were shot because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. And almost all of them have received no restitution.
May I suggest that Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates, or any of the other philanthropists looking for worthy causes, erase the debt of these citizens so they can vote in the 2020 election?
170
@Angelique Craney
Right on ... if you have 25 billion putting up 1 billion is not a stretch.
Also starting a go fund me page for restitution reimbursement?
42
@Angelique Craney I have a better idea. How about if the courts strike down the requirement as unconstitutional? This is probably what will happen, but in the meantime the damage will have been done.
15
@Angelique Craney
I, too, would readily contribute, with the hope that these legal voters help take back the honor and fairness that should belong to all citizens. Where are Florida’s religious leaders?
1
''A 2002 Supreme Court of Canada judgment gave federal prisoners the right to vote on constitutional grounds, ruling 5-4 that voting is a fundamental right in a democracy.
... Inmates in federal prisons and provincial jails are eligible to vote for a candidate in the riding where they lived before they were incarcerated.''
So sorry... wrong country and wrong century.
31
@True-North And that's why Canada remains as a nation almost as large as California but without the sunshine and good weather.
5-4 vote? Sounds like it might be worth reading the dissenting opinion as well as the ideology of the 5 justice majority.
2
As it has been for some time, the only time Republicans like democracy is when they know they will win. If they don't know they can win, they will have to have campaigns that appeal to more people; the choices wouldn't be so stark anymore. Assuming those elected politicians actually act as their campaigns suggested, we might have a very different political landscape in America.
That's what Republicans are afraid of.
37
Why submit passively to these GOP tactics when the solution is achievable? Let’s look at the math. $1 billion would pay for almost all of these “debts” or poll taxes or whatever one may call them. Throughout the US, different varieties of superPACs exist touting different causes and goals. Billions of dollars are raised and spent legally for voter influence. How about the organization of a Florida Voting Rights SuperPACS which would benevolently create a system of voting grants for this disenfranchised group of voters who could change the political course of Florida elections once given back their right to vote. In the scheme of election spending, it’s not a lot of money to be raised and then used purposefully instead of being spent on TV ads. I’m ready to write a check and make a donation.
144
@Doc But that is acquiescing to the GOP notion that felons should not be allowed to vote if they don't pay their fines. It is the requirement that is wrong -- not the paying of fines. This voting requirement should, and probably will be struck down in the courts.
7
@Marc: good luck with “should”. Most of us know by age eight that life isn’t fair. If we can fix things other ways, go for it. I’d happily donate to this cause.
3
And while we are waiting for the lawsuits to wend their way through the court system, we do what? Sit on our hands?? We can actually walk and chew gum at the same time.
Contribute to the already existing Florida Rights Restoration Coalition AND to the ACLU and other entities bringing lawsuits against this law.
Allow these folks to vote.
6
Republicans can be quite creative at problem solving when they want to be. Imagine what would happen if they wanted to solve problems like we face with climate change, gun violence, healthcare. Unfortunately, they aren't interested in those issues.
161
@Lou The Republicans always seem to find devious ways to thwart legislation and laws that they don't like. Dems need to study their tactics and use them against them. That's the way things are now so, beat them at their own game. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking that parties will be "working across the aisle" in the Trump era. It's not happening.
6
We are fortunate not to have a state income tax in Florida. It's a major reason why I live here as is the weather. But without that revenue, the state must (and should) collect all costs due it. And, court costs are crazy high - and the court dockets are more than full. That old saying "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" - needs to include "if you can't pay the fine." I know many see this as a voting issue but for many of us it is about having everyone take full financial and personal responsibility for their actions.
5
@Patricia
What does that have to do with voting? Don't use money as a pretense for racial discrimination. The south used states rights as the reason for the Civil War when slavery was the true issue. We don't deny people the right to vote if they are behind on their mortgage or VISA card and the failure to pay these bills cost all of society.
78
@Patricia. That argument falls flat. As the article states, the courts and Legislature acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of those debts can and will never be collected. The Republican majority in the Florida Stare House — maintained in power as it is through anti-representational tactics — simply does not believe in democracy. They can’t win a contest of ideas so they place their collective thumbs on the scale. As for not having an income tax, what kind of a state calling itself modern eschews a major source of income? No wonder it’s schools are so lousy, it’s teachers so poorly paid that most work additional jobs, it’s public infrastructure so challenged and pollution issues so unaddressed. For chissake, join the 21st century!
68
@Patricia did you read the editorial? You may want to re-read it and take note of how the debt is applied as part of the sentence, not a separate debt. There’s no advocacy for expunging the debt, but to have it as a civil obligation, such as the comparable student loans. As is noted the way it is now applied would be equivalent to not getting your diploma until all student loans are paid.
To continue to punish folks after their debt is paid smacks not of fiscal prudence but fear of the voter.
61
The headline for this commentary ("Why Are Florida Republicans So Afraid of People Voting?") is exactly the kind of question that Beto O'Rourke recently chastised the press for asking. You already know the answer. Republicans don't want people to vote because, if they do, Republicans will lose. To be more precise, Republicans have been on a decades-long quest to make it more difficult for presumed-Democratic constituencies (racial minorities, students, the poor, those with felony convictions, etc.) to vote. They have enjoyed substantial success in this endeavor, enacting voter ID laws, closing polling stations, shortening early-voting periods, gerrymandering districts, etc. The surprising thing is not that Republicans have resorted to voter suppression efforts in order to remain in power; rather, the surprising, and disheartening, thing is that the courts have allowed it and the press has largely ignored it, choosing instead to asking questions like your headline.
80
@Alan Yes we all know the answer, and I don't think the point was lost on anyone reading the article. Sometimes it is not necessary to state the obvious.
Voting is both a duty and a right. The exclusion of prisoners from voting prevents their doing their duty and exercising their rights. Extending that exclusion beyond time in prison for any reason makes a mockery of the basis of a government that claims to be a democracy,
62
@Harpo: Chronic discarding of one's vote by the Electoral College makes voting feel like endorsement of travesty.
1
"There’s a good argument to be made that laws like Florida’s violate this amendment as well as other constitutional provisions, like the equal protection clause."
True, but not an argument the current supreme court is likely to consider. You don't steal supreme court seats for nothing.
83
@Richard Wilson Musing last night, at 65 I will probably never see a case that upholds the rights of citizen who is not connected to wealth or power decided on the merits. With Judge Kegger and Fascism Forever Club Gorsuch around for a bazillion years I will in all probability not be around to see this flip.
19
@Richard Wilson: US states are only obstacles to equally protective laws.
9
@Richard Wilson
Which begs the question: how will Mitch McConnell be remembered?
To my knowledge, he has done little for the majority. I don't think he really likes Democracy at all.
I live in Kentucky. Since I am only one lowly voter, I decided to fight back the only way I can - I registered as a Republican and vote in every primary against him.
5
It's what Republicans do. They falsely accuse Democrats of cheating at the polls and pass laws to disenfranchise voters who are likely to vote Democratic. It's the dying breath of a major political party that is rapidly becoming an ineffective minor party. Rather than trying to embrace minorities and bring them into the party they're effectively driving them away. A very effective strategy to accelerate their demise.
41
@Jeff Cohee: "Empower us, because everyone else is even more corrupt than we are" is the underlying philosophy of the Republican Party.
1
Nationwide, there are a million burglaries per year. Burglars released from prison have a high recidivism rate — 80%. Most burglaries occur during the day when you are away from home. The percent of felons who vote, including burglars, is extremely low.
A released burglar is more likely to break into your house while you are voting than voting himself.
5
@michjas
According to the FBI, in 2017, the number of burglaries decreased 7.6 percent when compared with 2016 data. The number of burglaries decreased 27.4 percent when compared with 2013 data and was down 37.1 percent when compared with the 2008 estimate.
3
@michjas
Many burglars don't get caught.
I wonder how many of those vote?
@michjas That has nothing to do with rights. If a person has served their time and does choose to vote, he or she should not be judged based on the average behavior of burglars.
2
“In many cases, these fines and fees are not designed to punish but are rather meant to raise revenue to run the court system, as the Supreme Court pointed out this year in a case striking down excessive fines.”
So poor Floridians, who are more likely to be arrested than wealthy Floridians and who are, more often than not, people of color, are expected to prop up the very system that discriminates against them in the first place.
Yep, that’s Florida, with it’s racist Republican lawmakers to the core. We have to watch this case closely and hope for the best. I voted to allow felons’ rights restored and my vote was negated, along with millions more.
Just as I did before, I’ll voice my ire to the Republican lawmakers who did this, with thanks to the NYT for reminding me to do so. I’m so used to making these calls now, they’re just part of my daily routine.
80
Florida Republicans are afraid of people voting because most of the new voters will register as Democrats. I’m a registered Democrat and have voted Republican when Democrats took me for granted. But more than likely I’m going to vote Democrat straight down the line. Florida Republicans fear they won’t have numbers if they don’t cheat. They cheat in NC and GA as well.
39
Perhaps a few of our ultra-lucky American billionaires would be willing to step up and clear the debts of 20 or 30 thousand of these poor Americans? Seems like a worthy investment.
39
Well of course the intention of the Florida legislature is to suppress voting. I am so frustrated with the constant analyzing of Republican motives. Look, the modern Republican Party has never believed in any measures designed to make voting easier and to increase voter turnout. If most of their members were honest, and could have their way, we would quickly return to a requirement that only property owners could vote. Can anyone cite a Republican measure (since Reconstruction, of course) which has had the effect of increasing voter turnout? Here in gerrymandered North Carolina, one of their favorite tactics has been splitting university communities in halves, giving each piece to a Republican-designed octopus of a district so those freeloading, non-taxpaying students don't get the chance to tell proper citizens what to down down in Raleigh. It's entirely cynical, and entirely effective.
32
I have lived and worked in Florida for the past 13 years. It is a failed state. The legislators routinely disregard the will of the voters. It is a myth that it is cheap to live here. Rents are sky-high. Food is expensive. Insurance costs are ridiculous. Worker pay has not recovered from the last recession. There is no state income tax but they fee, fine and sales tax you to death. The police are used as tax collectors. The roads are overcrowded and underfunded. The water is getting dirtier everyday.
People here have lost faith in government because they have never lived in a state where the government did anything positive for them.
88
@Dr. Tim
I too live in Florida. I truly appreciate not having a state income tax although our property taxes are some of the highest in the nation. The costs you reference are an issue every where - just ask any family. And, road overcrowding? It's nothing like most major cities. Government? We elected those folks into office. If they're not doing what you want, make sure they don't get back in office. There are many things that could be done so much better here but they could also be done so much better everywhere. We need to complain and provoke change in places and with those who can make the change. I appreciate your comments but I do think what you described is a sentiment felt throughout our country.
3
As a resident of New Jersey, I beg to differ on your assessment of Florida property taxes. Florida ranks about 22 out of 50.
7
A party and country wide sentiment for republicans. No, they don't want to make it easy for minorities to vote. Been that way for a long time, but they have the courts and a majority of state houses, AND the senate. It's going to be a mad rush from now until the next election to push as much of this, plus roll back as much that they don't like as possible. Then comes the election tampering, slow walking replacing easily hackable machines, continuing the gerrymandering, social media shenanigans, and casting doubts on election results when they lose. Again, this has been their playbook for 35 years, get a clue.
35
Florida Republicans also overrode the will of voters similarly after a huge majority voted for constitutional amendments which 1) approved medical marijuana and 2) outlawed gerrymandering and they also passed laws eventually blocked by the courts) which would have prevented 3rd party voter registration groups from registering voters.
They know they can't win based on their ideas, so they constantly thwart the will of voters.
74
So it's a new wrinkle on the old poll tax, created to suppress the votes of poor people. Run it through the courts up to the Supreme Court of the land. Let me guess: 5 to 4, the rich guys win again.
46
Going to court this will. I just hope the current Supreme Court will not overturn a ruling that has existed for a very long time.
4
The action by the Republican dominated legislature to restrict voting is an object lesson in what "structural racism" looks like.
Unlike Jim Crow laws of old, there's no mention of race in any of these restrictions. Yet everyone, especially the GOP knows that they will fall most heavily on communities of color.
There were no racial rants when the laws were debated. No "intent" to discriminate was demonstrably obvious and as far as the GOP is concerned this was simply a neutral law that just happened to impact the black community more than others.
Justice Stephens once said "one usually intends the logical consequences of ones acts." And here the consequences are obvious. Voter suppression is voting discrimination.
But there's another lesson here. While the media gives Trump an undue amount of attention, the GOP both nationally and in Florida are practicing their own brand of racism and should be called out for doing so.
Does this make very member of the GOP a racist? No. But to remain silent when racism is being perpetrated by the party as a whole is unsavory in its own right.
There are dozens of stories for local media to pursue. "Senator so and so, do you support laws that harm people of color? Do you believe in democracy? Don't you have people of color in your district? Will you meet with them in a town hall and explain your vote?"
Silence allows racism to grow and fester, especially under this thin veil of denial. It's time for the press to pull that view off.
44
I live in Florida and I can assure you that this is only one of the way the Florida Republican legislature reveals their high moral character. They get their moral guidance from Trump.
69
Suppressing the vote and jerrimander is the republican cornerstone. Without it they would not be in power. Just presidential elections alone, no Bush no Trump. It would have been Gore and Clinton. One reason for so much discord is the majority is tired of being run by the minority.
43
@dave: The states themselves are a permanent gerrymander of division motivated by the slavery-inspired Electoral College.
2
I think the answer is obvious and explains GOP gerrymandering and attempts to disenfranchise voters across the country. The Republicans will not win free elections in which all obstacles to voting are removed. Demographics contribute to a false Republican strength. Senate Democrats represent 12 million more voters than Senate Republicans yet are the minority party, thanks to the fact that states with less population than a small NY city get the same number of senators as the state of NY. Republicans have been fixing House a local races for some time, drawing voting boundaries that weaken the strength of the urban and minority vote (of any group more likely to vote Democratic); in North Dakota Republicans work hard to fight against voter registration of Native Americans. In addition to gerrymandering and voter purges, the Republicans have put fewer polls in Democratic areas, limited poll hours, and challenged in court popularly passed initiatives to put redistricting in the hands of independent commission. Trump tried to fix the vote on a national level. Fortunately for democracy (and typically for Trump), he put an obvious incompetent and tainted individual in charge.
26
@kjny: Even without obstacles to voting, one's vote is still discarded by the monstrosity of the Electoral College.
1
If unpaid fines and court costs after other obligations are completed are a bar to voting, why is an unpaid parking ticket or unpaid taxes likewise not a reason deny voting rights?
72
@Jim S. Jim, they aren't doing that only because they don't believe they could get away with it.They would do it if they thought they could.
12
Because they don't involve incarceration?
@Jim S. I wondered the same thing.
1
As a Floridian, I can tell you the answer is clear: The state GOP, from Governor DeSantis on down, is petrified of adding new voters because they know the demographics are not in their favor.
That's why they have gerrymandered the state voting districts to keep control of the state legislature, and it is why they have acted completely contrary to the will of the People, who made clear in their referendum what they wanted. They fear that felons who've done their time will vote Democratic.
By the way, watch for DeSantis--he wants to be president and soon. I would not be surprised if he challenges Pence in 2024. He is trying to be the "good Republican" on the environment so he has something to appeal to younger voters, but he will also carry around millstones like this voter suppression issue.
45
@Jack Sonville I couldn't agree more, and it is very scary. DeSantis. here in Tampa Bay, seemed to have come out of nowhere to win the vote against Andrew Gillum in what many of us thought mirrored the Stacey Adams/Georgia outcome debacle.
And thank you NYTimes for shining a bright light on Florida. Please keep doing this.
7
Thanks for the national spotlight on one aspect of the Florida’s Dixiecrat-Republican war against against any they perceive as threatening their growing tenuous grasp on power. In the medium run it is a strategy doomed for failure. As a Florida taxpayer and voter, I hope I live long enough to see that to fruition.
23
After having spent thirty years as a resident of south Florida, it comes as no surprise that its legislature is so cravenly corrupt. Remember, it was Jeb who interceded in the Bush v. Gore fiasco that ended with the intervention by the Supreme Court who then prevented a recount of the entirety of votes cast in the state. It is the same entity that insured that Rick Scott, whose wealth was garnered from taxpayers in the form of Medicare fraud for which he pleaded the fifth amendment over 100 times, was elected governor twice and then senator. They did this by making voting lines so intolerable in well populated areas of state, that voters actually gave up without exercising their franchise. They have impoverished public schools by taking real estate taxes from them and giving it to their friends that run unregulated for-profit "charters" and have made teachers virtual paupers. They redistribute taxes from the more populated southern counties to disperse to the lower taxed, sparsely populated northern regions. It is without a doubt, and I state this as a registered Republican, that this is as grotesque a group of seedy politicians as one can find and are worthy of a RICO style of investigation.
206
@Mary Trimmer
Well said. I have been a part time resident of FL for years. It is at the bottom of state measures, thanks to these policies. I refuse to change my residency , though my husband has become a FL resident.
13
"Vermont and Maine have gone even further, allowing people in prison to vote — as is the case in most European countries. Last time we checked, all are still functioning democracies."
Exactly, and this is why the Right doesnt trust the Left. The Left always goes to far to the Left, and the Right tries to keep the country from becoming Europe, because we are America
4
@D
If you believe allowing someone who has completed their sentence and probation vote as being too far left, then you may be ‘right’ but you are also wrong.
2
I’m surprised they didn’t include making them pay for meals and laundry service while they were incarcerated as a condition of having their voting rights restored.
14
Why bother calling them Republican's? They're not Republican in the traditional sense. Theirs is the philosophy of the privileged, elite, ruling class. That ideology has taken over the Republican role.
They see their entitlements being threatened by a plebeian class, one which might intend changes that threaten their privilege, and they're reacting. What a shock?
They never give up privilege and power willingly. They never have and, since they do not learn from history, they never will accede to equitably sharing that which they consider theirs and theirs alone. Power. It will have to be taken from them.
John~
American Net'Zen
30
@John
Oligarchy.
That's the "O" in today's GOP.
The GOP could just come out and say it, many of their supporters would not bother to Google the term.
2
@John
It is not only that. Republicans are far right wingers. They are authoritarians, not supportive of democracy.
2
I am encouraged by what I am reading in the vast majority of comments for this editorial. I have been scanning through the comments and could not find one that supported the Florida GOP's poll tax on ex-felons. Not one. So either, there are no republicans that read the Times, which I highly doubt, or overwhelmingly people support full restoration of voting rights for ex-felons in Florida and in other states. If I were a republican....I would pay attention here.
29
Our Constitution designates, in Amendments XIV and XXIV, specific rights owed to the underprivileged citizens among us. The concept of Habeas Corpus, or the prevention of illegal detention, is at the core of modern jurisprudence. The abrogation of these rights points to the fundamental need for structural changes in our government as it stands: an experiment in meaningful representative democracy. We need to address gerrymandering, the over-protection of corporations as though they were "ordinary people", the Citizens United ruling, and the popular representational dilemmas exposed by the outmoded design of the Electoral College, the current system of appointment of Supreme Court (and other) Federal Judges, and even the composition of the Senate. These failures to protect the ideal of "Justice for all" in our government belie the fact that "justice" will always be far easier to attain for the advantaged under any form of government. For the powerful it simply becomes a synonym for force majeur. This should not be what we stand (or kneel !) for.
22
Ron DeSantis would have lost his election if former felons were able to vote. So would have governor Scott. So they are acutely aware of the power of cheating. 3 ideas here for Floridians. 1) get organized and fund raise to pay off these debts. 2) Sue 3) Flood the airwaves, media, churches and social media with this single topic and turn the populous against them. But whatever you do, dont just sit back and take it.
120
@Dan
Or perhaps a clear, simple 2nd amendment removing fines and fees from consideration in eligibility. It’ll pass by the same 2-1 ratio.
14
I expect that will be on the ballot here in FL, and it will win again, but not soon enough to affect the 2020 election.
13
@Chip James Great idea but unfortunately would not happen in time to allow former felons to vote in 2020.
How many of the affected are likely to vote Republican? The closer you get to zero, the more apparent the logic of preventing their votes becomes.
19
Why do you have to ask "why are Florida Republicans so afraid of people voting?" It would be better to state the affirmative: Florida Republicans know they will most assuredly lose if all citizens are permitted to vote and are trying every trick in the book to disenfranchise voters. The most recent elections only delivered the Senate seat and Governor's position through questionable means and it is becoming too difficult to manipulate things. It was a good thing Jeb was there in 2000, but we're running out of schemes to keep the powerful full of power.
22
As a child growing up in the 1950s and early 1960s in metro NYC, I recall studying and learning the earned reputation of "conservative" Southern Democrats who, for more than 60 years dating back to the end of Reconstruction, had built all sorts of blockades (poll tax, Jim Crow laws, segregated schools & society) to prevent African-Americans from participating in the social and economic progress of the USA. The Republican Party of those late 19th and first half of the 20th century eras included policies, behaviors, and leaders for the inclusion and equal rights for all people.
Now, it appears the political labels have changed from Democrat to Republican and the misbehaviors and techniques have persisted. So long as it served their misguided and un-American objectives, the bigots and autocrats swapped one political label for another.
21
@A E (Ted) Gelsthorpe It's been that way since Nixon's southern strategy in the 70s, which wooed white southern democrats to the Republican party by appealing to anti-black racism and fear/hatred of minorities gaining civil rights as Jim Crow laws were being dismantled. And that's pretty much what the Republican party is today.
Let's not forget the more than $7 million of taxpayer money the Republican legislature spent unsuccessfully fighting the voter passed anti-gerrymandering constitutional amendments in 2010. What won't they do to undermine democracy's last protection against autocracy?
31
The Florida legislature is solidly in Republican hands, a situation that will likely continue until it passes legislation that prompts a major boycott of the theme park and convention industries. I think a major Alabama-style abortion bill is likely next year.
Miami has an extremely high rate of usage of Affordable Care Act insurance (excluding expanded Medicaid, which the state hasn't adopted). The same neighborhoods are also likely to be strong Republican. When Obamacare is sabotaged, by Congress, the Supreme Court, or willful administrative mismanagement, the results may be interesting.
15
While this particular atrocity is native to Florida, the republican party as a whole seems opposed to people voting - at least voters they presume vote against them. In 1980 Paul Weyrich, a founder of the Moral Majority, told republicans that the only way the republican party can win is to suppress the vote. This set in motion one of the anti-democratic the republican party, to this day, have embraced. So much for a party, whose patriotism was worn on their sleeve, to embrace the exact reason that was taught to me and others as a child. We fight wars to protect our sacred right to vote. Apparently the greatest battle yet to be fought is against the republican party.
50
@Mike: The Electoral College arguably nullifies a majority of the votes actually cast in US presidential elections, which is why the US has the lowest turnout of any first world nation in national elections.
12
No reasonable person (so that excludes Mitch McConnell) could argue that voting rules should be completely under states' rights. Especially when it comes to voting in federal elections. I hope those law suits against this outrage are successful. Very soon.
36
@SEM, am I misreading you? STATES' rights? Isn't that the problem? Give me one good reason why a person's right to vote should differ based on where the live. Just one!
IMO, there is also no good reason why criminal justice should be determined at the state level. Or education, for that matter. Voting, justice and knowledge are RIGHTS in and of themselves. One look at a ranking of states by those three traits and it is obvious that the Old South lives on.
14
@Philip2: US "states" exist SOLELY to perpetuate unequally protective laws in a destructive internecine competition to undermine each other.
David Frum said it best: "The Republican Party has a platform that can’t prevail in democratic competition....If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy. "
American's republican party has rejected democracy.
195
@Sallie And it'll get much, much worse. Once they own 3/4 of state legislatures (they're almost there) expect A) more gerrymandering (now encouraged by the latest Supreme Court decision) to turn the US House solidly GOP B) Constitutional rights to be undermined via repeals of existing amendments (and new onerous amendments added).
26
@Rethinking
Actually, with that 3/4 of the states there could be a constitutional convention leading to an entirely new Constitution. That is the real goal. I'd bet that ALEC already has one ready to go. Love to see that leaked out early so it could be torn to shreds.
9
I think the answer in obvious. Republicans know they are in the minority and the only way they can continue to "win" elections is by gerrymandering and preventing as many citizens from voting as possible.
49
The largely republican state legislature is a gerrymandered success story for the GOP. This is hardly the first time the will of voters was derailed . But the intent here is clearer than ever. Republicans fear an increase of voters likely to favor Democrats. Keep in mind that the current governor squeaked into office with the full endorsement of Trump. I hope the suit by the ACLU is fruitful. The Florida legislature rarely reflects the average Floridian's views.
32
I have been wondering when exactly the United States went so far off course. It’s always been a bit strange but in the past 30 or 40 years it has taken a sharp turn toward the bizarre. There is no longer a national consensus on what democracy is, or even if it’s important. Entire institutions have thrived for the purpose of limiting individuals’ opportunities to participate in civic life and government, at the same time the “rights of the individual” are emblazoned in political dogma. Elections have become playthings. Freedom of speech, thought and expression are denied from both ends of the spectrum. Discouragement and alienation are policy.
America wallows in its self image as the guardian of freedom in the same way that Britain thinks it’s still an empire. Neither is a model that any nation would wish to aspire to now. It’s a terrible turn of events. While the world can do without an empire, it can’t survive without freedom.
46
@Stevenz 1980. Not only did Americans elect a president who exploited ethnic divisions, but made sure economic divisions widened to the benefit of the rich through "tax reform" (or the Middle Class Exclusion Acts of 1983 and 1985).
15
@Stevenz Thank you Stevenz for reminding USA citizens of how far we've strayed from the founding fathers' & mothers' plans and dreams for our republic. Sometimes, a view and commentary from outside our country and, fortunately, from the a citizen of another nation founded upon English Common Law may help guide us back towards the objectives and ideals our noble experiment. Thank you.
13
@Stevenz, you are right, but the situation is worse than why you imply simply because the entire world is being effected by the fact that an increasing number of people are becoming more and more powerless to prevent the powerful from destroying it (the world, that is, via climate change and pollution).
8
The way to prevent repeat criminal offenders, is to allow people with a criminal record to rejoin society in a meaningful way.
I worked at a senior level, for almost 15/years, in a business with 500 employees, with a turnover in the range of 10 %. We did not ask about criminal records, we had one problem.
If people cannot get jobs, how can they become good citizens ?
British Columbia Human Rights code does not permit asking about criminal record, unless it could affect job performance.
“Discrimination in employment
13 (1) A person must not
(a) refuse to employ or refuse to continue to employ a person, or
(b) discriminate against a person regarding employment or any term or condition of employment
because of the race, colour, ancestry, place of origin, political belief, religion, marital status, family status, physical or mental disability, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or age of that person or because that person has been convicted of a criminal or summary conviction offence that is unrelated to the employment or to the intended employment of that person.”
33
@LP, I've decided to repeat the following mantra everywhere I can.
The republican motto is simple: Keep them poor, keep them uneducated and keep them fighting among themselves.
Imagine if democrats all took up that mantra (and, whenever necessary, explained what it means)?
To get the whole picture, it is more than relevant -- it is vital to understanding -- that of 1.5 million ex-felons in Florida, the vast majority don't seem to much care about voting. After Amendment 4 went into effect, about 2,000 ex-felons registered in the first three months. 99.9% remained unregistered. When poll taxes were deemed unconstitutional blacks registered in large numbers. It was a seminal event. The ex-felons, however, appear to be something to argue about that has no measurable effect. And if you think the numbers will soon change, keep in mind that about 70% of felons are back in prison soon enough. If the Board is arguing in good faith, isn't it obliged to acknowledge all this?
3
No, it isn’t. It’s obliged to consider that people - citizens - should be given the opportunity to have a say in their government. Just because they don’t take advantage of it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have the opportunity. But not voting is a privilege only if there is a prior privilege to vote.
33
@michjas Maybe some are just waiting until closer to the next election in their state. Or until they are better informed about candidates and issues.
12
@michjas Perhaps the trauma and the self-shame of people who've committed a serious crime dissuade them from re-entering civilized society. I'm not making excuses for nor excusing the misbehavior of any felon who've served his / her time; but I can understand their self consciousness as they seek to become productive and literate citizens.
I wonder ..... would it be worthwhile for local, state, and federal levels of gov't to provide "re-entry and restoration" training including job skills training for miscreants who want to improve themselves and to atone from their past misdeeds.
How long and for what purpose do we punish them? Wouldn't it be a more productive use of our tax monies to help ex-cons (during and after serving their sentences using job training and other re-education processes) become decent and productive citizens? After they serve their time, dumping ex-cons out on the street without any support doesn't seem to be in anyone's best interest. As they re-enter civilized society, I'd prefer to spend a little tax money on training with the expectations that it will aide re-adjustment than, later, spending a lot of tax money on law enforcement, the prosecutorial and justice system, and recriminalizing ex- cons.
7
Ok progressives, we need 1.4 million sponsors matched to 1.4 Floridians to settle these debts and get these folks registered to vote for 2020. Fight the battle in court, of course. But that battle may take years and we need to move now to ensure these citizens get their voting rights restored before the presidential election. I’m in for $1000, just need a progressive group to lead the effort...
57
One reader has suggested that we use Tom Steyer’s funds. I say YES, but this is not just Tom Steyer’s problem, its everybody’s problem. So LET’S MAKE IT HAPPEN!
So we need a professionally run charity. Yes, it will need some full time people and lots of volunteers. It will be the charity’s job to pay off those penalties (and whatever else they are called). All payments go to the State (not to the individuals).
At first bills under a thousand should be paid (more bang for the buck). If it looks like the charity is swimming in funds, then higher and higher amounts can be liquidated. Remember, this has to happen now…we can’t wait for the courts.
Mark
43
@Mark'
It is a great idea to take up a collection for the paying of fines, but the article also states there is no place that the person can find exactly what they need to pay. So how is that supposed to work?
2
@Mark, there are already a ton of them: https://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=homepage_norma/search&term=florida%20vote
If anyone thinks they are not going to see some kind of major changes in the Union they have not read the history books. Hopefully it's only a short time before people see through this fog and move on. Wow, another regressive move from leaders. People please VOTE!
16
The real question isn't why FLORIDA Republicans so afraid of people voting ... it's why REPUBLICANS are so afraid of people voting. Not much of a question, is it?
A better question would be, "What are the chances that this issue will make it's way through the courts before the 2020 election?" I'm not particularly hopeful.
24
The answer to the question posed in the title to this piece is self-evident, is it not?
If those being assessed what amounts to a poll tax were predominantly Republican voters, that poll tax would have never become an issue.
But, they aren't. And, it has.
The foundation of a democracy is the franchise---access to the ballot. Fundamentally, the ballot enshrines "the voice of the people" in a way unlike any other process or institution. It is through the casting of ballots that the people speak in a formative and determinative fashion per the principles and priorities they wish to guide the governance of their country.
God knows, American democracy has never been flawless. But, in every age, there have been those---often only a few but sometimes a few more---who have argued that an abiding goal of America's leaders should be to expand/extend the franchise such that an ever-increasing percentage of our citizenry be given the "voice" that is their guaranteed and protected right. To do so is to honor our democratic principles. To seek, through whatever means, to decrease that percentage is to seek to silence the "voice" of the people and thus dishonor our democratic principles.
You must decide for yourself, as I must decide for myself, which people in power seek to honor our democracy and which people in power do not. To support the former is to be loyal to the ideals and promises that hold the possibility of American greatness. To support the latter, well...
19
Why don't we just Kickstart and collectively pay off their debts? Would love to rub DeSantis' nose in that sort of American generosity.
66
@JohnW - “I said ‘Somebody should do something about that.’ Then I realized I am somebody.” – Lily Tomlin
Start it, don't talk about it
1
Check out Florida Rights Restoration Coalition
2
Republicans have always been scared of people voting. They lose when elections are fair. Case closed.
75
Wouldn't making these restitution payments be a fantastic use of Tom Steyer's funds?
29
Why are Florida Republicans so afraid of people voting? The people they are afraid of will most likely vote Democratic, that's why.
Now wasn't that simple?
20
We need a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to vote to all American citizens over the age of 18. Period.
27
It's called the 26th Amendment, ratified in 1971.
It should be amended to once again raise the voting age to 21. Or maybe even 23 or 25, considering the facts that we live much longer now, mature later, and the brain isn't fully developed until at least 25.
3
@Anthony La Macchia: Then let’s amend it a bit further and stipulate that only people with a college degree can vote. Oh, and no gun sales and no trial as an adult for those under 25.
3
@Anthony La Macchia If we're talking about brain maturity, then there should be a cut off. How old should someone be before they lose their right to vote, due to deteriorating brain function? 80? 85?
2
There is a go-fund me or similar site established for the purpose of helping these people pay their debts. Please search for it and make a donation. And contact those wealthy donors and candidates and ask them to do the same.
24
If only this Republican fixation to suppress the vote was limited to Florida - it's not. Republican "law" makers have been actively and openly writing, supporting and campaigning voter suppression legislation for the past 12 years. When it comes to winning elections, Republicans know the demographic they seek is shrinking so they move the goal posts and edit the rule book and attempt to win by hook or by crook. It's really sad that they would devise such a scorched Earth policy as opposed to adopting a platform to serve the public good. The fact that they are embarking on such a sad and underhanded platform to prevent their defeat via denying folks a vote is proof-positive that they have no enlightening or uplifting ideas or policies on which to rely.
25
So is there some go fund me or similar mechanism to pay fees for these folks?
Seems a small price.
5
@Haiku R
If we had a website so millions of us could each contribute a small amount, and those folks now denied registering to vote could feel the LOVE from fellow citizens, who want to give them the chance to vote, that might do a lot of good. Not only would it give voting rights back to many, but it might spark a great movement of civility and fellow feeling, like the kind of wave that can actually turn a river to flowing upstream for a while.
We need that kind of WAVE of LOVE to counteract the river of hate spawned by the GOP and its hateful T.
16
@Haiku R There is one. I wish I could remember the site or how to find it. Try League of Women Voters of Florida. I will be checking again myself. But there definitely was a legitimate group that set up a site for this very purpose.
I'd suggest this might be a good place for Tom Steyer and others to make a large contribution.
12
Wouldn't it be great if one or two of the billionaires out there would provide philanthropy by paying off the debts of all of the ex-felons in Florida and elsewhere who have done their time, but who still have outstanding debts, some as little as a few dollars, so that they can vote in the 2020 elections? Such a move wouldn't solve the problem of voter suppression or the laws that allow such, but it sure would help a lot of people who should be allowed to vote, and would be, if they didn't have such debt.
35
@Brooke Do we "off-load" the problem and solutions to wealthy folks or should we take responsibility for them ourselves and make, perhaps more modest, our own contributions to pay off the debts of those ex-felons?
@A E (Ted) Gelsthorpe I get your point but the solution @Brooke is hitting on is expediency. We need to get this done before the next round of elections and if a few billionaires could step in right now, that would crush this poll tax by the GOP in quick order.
2
Oprah? I always wonder about famous actors, too.
And in NH and MI, after passage of measures to create independent citizens commissions to take over redistricting from entrenched politicians and curb gerrymandering (a position supported by roughly 2/3rds of Americans polled) New Hampshire’s GOP Gov. Sunnunu just vetoed the reform and the GOP Legislature in MI is trying to kill their reform plan passed in a citizen led petition campaign and referendum (and in the face of fierce efforts by the GOP to kill the referendum). They are relentless because increasingly, without the ability to rig the election process, they cannot win a majority.
27
Thousands of Florida voters weren't "mistakenly targeted for removal from voter rolls because they were believed to have felony records."
The effort was intentional, as the databases were widely known to be error-filled and the used methods created large number of false hits. Which is precisely why the state of Florida choose this system.
Do we really have to pretend that public officials -- in this, Florida under then governor Jeb Bush, who also happened to have a slight conflict of interest -- are fair-minded and virtuous, when we know otherwise?
42
There are two ways for a proposed Florida Constitutional Amendment to appear on the ballot - by passage of the legislature or by citizens petition. That second means is how things like medical marijuana and felony rights restoration got onto the ballot.
So, naturally, over the years the legislature has made the petition process harder. The numbers of signatures required went up, and the time window for securing the signatures was shortened. The required judicial review of petition-generated amendments was tightened.
The Republican reactionary grip on power here keeps getting tighter and more fanatical every cycle. And for obvious reasons.
Here in Seminole County (north and east of Orlando), the Republicans have run the place like a feudal state for decades. But look: over the last 3-1/2 years, Republican registration has increased by 6100, Democratic registration has increased by 15600, and No Party/Other registration has increased by 17300.
Republicans used to have an outright majority. Now they are clinging to a slim plurality of 6000 out of 310000 voters. Soon they will be in the minority, maybe by next year.
They are very afraid of any expansion of voting rights. Once they lose power, they will be in the wilderness for a good long time.
102
Does everyone see where this is going? What’s to stop Republicans from denying the vote to anyone with a court debt or judgment (no felony required) or, for that matter, to anyone with a debt of any kind?
29
Florida is one of the handful of states without state tax and that makes it difficult to manage the state's business exclusively on sales tax revenues. Remember the 2000 presidential elections? Florida was ill equipped to handle getting an accurate vote count. It was a shameful way to run an election and we got stuck with 8 years of George W. Bush, the worst president in history. Florida desperately tries to extort revenues through hefty fines from unsuspecting tourists by placing hidden cameras all around the state eg places like Clear water.
I am not sure so sure that Florida Republicans are so afraid of people voting. They have the state in their pockets due to it being a no state tax state and not tinkering with social security and medicare. The democrats have scared the Floridians by the perception that they will tax the retirees in the state and spend their hard earned money. Florida has a Republican governor and both senators are Republicans. It has become a red state since 2016 being comfortable won by the President. The Democrats are desperate to regain some power back in Florida but it is not going to be easy. No one is going to pay attention to issues which are being made into a mountain out of a molehill just like no one will care who the Editorial board endorses in any election. So get off the high horse and understand the fears and apprehensions of the voters.
4
@Girish Kotwal. Good day . I am a native born Floridian. The issue of people voting in Florida is NOT making a mountain out of a mole hill. People for get that Florida is a Southern state and has not always been receptive to minority voting. Florida has been a state that had and continues to have problems with equality. Minorities here are aware that the justice system is not always fair and some of those so called felons were jailed for issues that would have been judged differently in other states. Desantis and Republicans are now asking the courts to be a little clearer on these new poll taxes because they realize that what they have now signed into law is not truthful. Florida is not always sunshine if you are not white. Thank you.
27
@Gwen from S Florida. Being a native Floridian from living in Florida through generations does not give you the same perspective as current day Florida. I have visited Florida twice in the past 10 months and in terms of inter racial relations and inter religious relations I see considerable harmony with Floridians working together for common good. I agree there was a need for criminal reforms for those disadvantaged in the past and the bipartisan prison and criminal reform bill signed by our president was a major advance in human rights recognition and addressing the past wrong done to Americans especially African Americans. I agree that everything is never well for anyone at all times and even in the sunshine state but to not appreciate the changes that have taken place and keep harping on every little nuisance by ignoring all the good makes one wonder whether it deserves such excessive and disproportionate focus. Florida is the South geographically speaking but it is also the new South politically speaking and the new South has switched to being a red state like it or not and the reason is on issues that matter most to a majority of people but also taking into consideration what is bothering the minorities will be a winning strategy for all Floridians.
1
@Girish Kotwall Correction: George W. Bush - the SECOND worst president in American history.
4
A related question is why does the US Supreme Court not care? I would have thought that protecting our democracy, protecting each individual's right to vote, would be important to the SC. Apparently not. There is no one left to protect our democracy.
In Michigan, after voters voted in big numbers (higher percentage than the winning Democratic governor received) in support of a ballot proposal that assigns to a carefully selected, nonpartisan committee the responsibility of drawing district boundaries, - after that vote, STILL there is another lawsuit. Still the Republicans are suing, this time most brazenly in opposition to the will of the people, to have the commission vote overturned.
When will it end? When will those conservative, pro-constitution Republicans crawl out of the woodwork to protect our democracy?
37
@Joan Johnson: A majority of the court definitely does care. They showed that when they elected Bush president in 2000, and again when they ruled that there's nothing wrong with partisan gerrymandering.
35
@Joan Johnson Joan, there is only one last line of defense for our democracy and it is all Americans who want a functioning, vibrant democracy. We collectively need to vote against those running for political office at all levels who by their actions demonstrate they are against a true democratic process. Unfortunately, as many have stated, that is a space that appears firmly occupied by the Republican party.
4
@Joan Johnson
The citizens of Michigan don't realize that they are fortunate. Their Republican neighbors in Wisconsin have used a lame duck session of the legislature to reduce the powers of the newly elected Democratic Governor and Atty. General. Their action was certified as legal by a Republican controlled Wisconsin Supreme Court on a party line vote.
3
It’s no coincidence that it was the state of Florida ultimately threw the 2000 election to Bush. That could well reply next year, too.
28
Sorry, I meant replay, not reply.
1
Typical of republicans, and sad they keep getting away with their system-gaming. They know they can't win in a state like Florida without disenfranchising a huge chunk of mostly democratic voters. I wonder what the gerrymandered maps look like there too. Probably a lot like a spilled bowl of pasta.
Personally, I don't think incarceration or a felony record should take away your right to vote. Yes, I even believe you should be able to vote from your cell.
I really wish the GOP would hurry up and die, and the Dems would just split into 'center' and 'left'. Then we'd have our two party system again, and it'd be much more representative of the people.
That will happen, IMO, but it might be another full generation or two before it does...
31
The implementing law passed by the Florida legislature reflects the likely public understanding of the amendment. You have to ignore the record to conclude otherwise.
When a public hearing was held by the Florida Supreme Court to review the proposed amendment language, the advocate for the amendment's sponsor advised the court clearly and unambiguously that the phrase "completed all terms of the sentence" meant that all monetary obligations had to be paid. The amendment sponsor's web site provided the same information. It was only after the amendment passed and the legislature was considering a bill to create a uniform system for implementation that the objections to including costs arose. This is all a matter of record and it is misleading to disregard this record to portray the legislation as a poll tax that has been enacted contrary to the voting public's intent. But then, the Times has its own agenda.
And for the record, I voted for the amendment but I knew its wording was not clear and would be the source of much anguish. The sponsor could and should have made it more clear that costs were not part of the sentence, but then who knows, maybe the amendment would not have passed.
10
In his book Trumpocracy, former Bush 43 speechwriter David Frum said it best:
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”
We have been seeing this firsthand.
714
Voter suppression is a core element of the Republican strategy. The GOP has only won the national popular vote once since 1988. (In 2004) But they control the Supreme Court and the Senate as a result of the compromise of 1787 when the Constitution was drafter. The electoral college give disproportionate power to smaller states (a trend that will increase as rural areas decline relative to metropolitan areas). Gerrymandering and voter suppression are the tool that have enabled what amounts to minority rule. And they want to keep it that way.
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I made a lot of phone calls and sent out a lot of text messages as part of the effort to pass Amendment 4 and it was rewarding to see that the efforts of numerous people to make it happen paid off when it passed. This attempt by the Republicans to basically undo what the voters of Florida wanted is very frustrating. Too many people still are disregarding the ideals of their own country and trying to maintain power by stopping others from voting. This country has wonderful ideals and we must continue to fight for these ideals to guide us against the illiberal opposition that does not support these ideals in practice.
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@Bob thank you for doing the work of democracy
3
Why are they afraid? Because they know they’ll lose, based on a number of voter approved amendments that were approved after voters got tired of their alleged elected representatives holding up legislation that the overwhelming majority of voters supported. Including prekindergarten. Seriously.
23
I am a Florida resident. Actually my home state. Yes I like millions voted to restore felon voting rights. This poll tax is not what we meant. This is a desperate minority trying to hold onto power. When we passed a constitutional amendment to end gerrymandering in the state, the Republican Legislation and Republican Governor tried to make an end run around what we voted for. The League of Women voters had to sue to get the new law executed. The powerful never give up their power willingly. We are going to have to fight for every inch.
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"Why Are Florida Republicans So Afraid of People Voting?"
For the same reason Georgia Republicans are afraid of people voting. Minorities, and the less fortunate look to the Democrats for assistance. The Republicans know it and will do anything to keep those voters from the election booths.
It’s sad that in today’s digital world, voting could be made so much easier, but wherever there are Republicans in control, restrictive processes are put in place to keep the minorities from the polls.
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@cherrylog754 I still can't get over what a fraud Georgia's last election was... and that it was allowed to happen.
5
The answer to the title question is eloquently provided in the article itself:
"But Florida’s Republican lawmakers decided Amendment 4 was too much democracy for their taste."
This distaste for democracy and more people being able to vote afflicts not just the Floridian version of the Republicans, but the entire party at the national level. They are taking these kinds of steps to stave off the impact of a demographic shift that is occurring in the country. Simply put - America is turning brown. And so, with every last ounce of effort, the Republicans are trying to squeeze extra value from their dwindling base.
While it may work in the short run they are doomed in the longer run. Of course this does not make the current action by Gov. Ron DeSantis and his party acceptable.
Let me end with a public request to any one of the many billionaires to set aside a few million dollars that can be used to wipe of these insane and inhumane debts. Are you listening Oprah? Bill Gates? Tom Steyer? George Soros?
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@chickenlover
Assisting ppl who can not afford to pay their court bills would be a neat end run around the FL GOP. Ideally starting with the smallest amounts owed and working up to the larger bills. It would have to be done carefully to avoid accusations of buying votes. Even though that is what the GOP essentially does by promising the wealthy tax cuts.
21
The more people vote, the worse it is for Republicans which is why we will continue to see all sorts of tactics to suppress voting and registering to vote. In the end, America reveals it's discomfort with democracy and cannot any longer, credibly point to itself as a model of democracy
49
The GOP will never win an national election again and they will only retain local control by gerrymandering and voter suppression. And that is a sign of a political regime on it's last desperate gasps of life. Goodbye and good riddance.
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I am one of those Floridians waiting for the opportunity to vote for the first time in over 20 years. Please don't think I am a criminal with a trail of victims. In the depths of despair after receiving a diagnosis of advanced AIDS, I started using pot and cocaine to "feel better." I then was arrested, and pled guilty to drug possession. An empty quarter gram baggie and straw with cocaine residue. A felony. Why you ask have I not paid the thousands of dollars for fees and court costs? To maintain my eligibility for Medicaid, and access to life saving medications, I cannot make more than $200 per month per federal law or have more than $2000 in total assets. My sole income is a small disability check and food stamps. Today, I am the full time caregiver for my 93 yo mother with Alzheimer's. And I fill my time with volunteer work. It is no secret I am disgusted with the way the Republican party governs. And it is no secret that thousands of my fellow Floridians in a similar situation as I am feel the same way. So this is more than discrimination against those who have interacted with the State criminal justice system. This is also discrimination against those citizens with a different political view point. For that reason, I hope the courts apply a strict scrutiny test, and not a simple rational basis test. Finally, thank you to my fellow Americans who feel that this is unjust. We here in Florida need your help.
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@JohnMcFeely
Yet another article in the NYT’s ongoing efforts to develop sympathy for criminals and make it appear that criminals are actually victims.
To set the record straight, victims of crimes are the true victims, the perpetrators—and those who aid, abet and participate in crime with them—are criminals. (And, yes, those who buy illegal drugs are supporting crime/drug dealers.)
I hope all the progressive prosecutors--and Democratic Presidential candidates--will give serious thought to what it means to eliminate bail, reduce sentences and allow criminals to run loose in our communities. Who is responsible for post-release crimes committed by those released early? An apology to their future victims will be of small consolation for those who are harmed; and how about compensation and restitution for the actual victims?
Early release or release without bail of thousands of criminals is a recipe for increased crime, and increased numbers of victims. (Check federal statistics of recidivism rates—very sobering.)
Felons should not be allowed to vote until they have paid applicable fines and have compensated or reimbursed their victims.
And please note that Bernie Sanders supports allowing prisoners to vote while incarcerated, a policy certain to push many independents, moderates and undecideds to vote for Trump in 2020.
@Mon Ray
Your argument makes no sense at all. Who was hurt by John McFeely's drug possession charge? The US incarcerates more people than any other advanced country - by a stunningly wide margin. If the vote is denied to a wide variety of people, it fosters cynicism and undermines democracy. No wonder the US is in such trouble when people on the right think only they should be the ones to exercise any power. Disempowering broad swaths of the population never ends well for a country.
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@Mon Ray
You do understand that inmates are used as slave labor, paid cents on the dollar for their work while in prison?
That more than offsets whatever capricious charges the state of Florida invents to prevent people who have served their time from being integrated back into society and voting.
Are all eligible voters evaluated for the virtue of their lives? No.
Your choice for president in 2020, Trump, is the best evidence of that.
36
"Why Are Florida Republicans So Afraid of People Voting?"
I don't understand the media anymore. What is with the tone of this headline? With all we know shouldn't this headline read:
"Americans' Rights Robbed by Republican Repression".
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Actually, the question is "Why Are Republicans So Afraid of People Voting?"
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@expat
They're afraid of anything that does not reek of profit.
1
One of those rich democratic donors should pay off all the debt of these potential voters. Maybe flip Florida and the next presidential election.
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@ Dave
Good point. G. Soros and M. Bloomberg can make the debts go away immediately and the Democrats take Fla.
24
I would imagine the state would refuse the payment. Just as that school district in PA did when a wealthy citizen tried to erase the school lunch debt of parents threatened with losing their kids.
The cruelty is the point and they don’t like people short-circuiting it.
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@Dave From Auckland
If anyone could ever determine how much they actually owe. The Florida government keeps that unclear and unavailable to prevent resolution of the debts...
31
Once again, the republicans are doing an end run around our constitutional rights. However, There is a solution to this problem.
A wealthy foundation, which supports the right to vote, should simply pay the outstanding restitution and court cost debts which are preventing these folks from exercising their constitutional right to vote.
Of course, I am quite sure that the next amendment passed those who wish to disenfranchise will be one that specifies the source of the funds must be earned in "regular employment".
218
When you lose the national election by three million votes, you have to work on ways to win with less. That today's Republican Party has little in common with my father's party is easily seen by the ingenuity that it has shown in figuring out ways to defeat majority votes!
449
At some point the Republican party will lose control of Florida's Senate, House and Governor. I suspect many voters will believe it is time for payback for the decades of Republican control. That would be a mistake.
When Democratic control resumes, it will be enough to replace all of the bills which were voted on by the citizens of Florida and then nullified by the Republican State Legislature. It will be time for Florida to return to a state which practices democracy and uses best practices of voting including voting machines which leave a paper trail and can't be "hacked"or changed by republicans as well as ending gerrymandered districts in which the majority Democrats are defeated by minority Republicans across the state.
Many of us dislike the system by which changes must be a Constitutional Amendment rather than a bill before the Legislature. One change the Democrats should consider is changing the system so Constitutional Amendments are saved for important changes and all other bills are products of the Legislature. The current system promotes fraud upon the citizens of Florida by allowing them the illusion they have voted for a change such as returning the vote to felons (except for felons guilty of murder and sexual violence) only to have the Legislature stop voter registration of felons who have not paid court costs, fines and restitution (not mentioned in original amendment). This is true "Bait and Switch" done by Republicans.
101
The Constitution explicitly prohibits States from passing any "ex post facto Law". Florida is imposing a punishment for debt that was incurred previously. So refusing voting rights on this basis is not only dubious, it is unconstitutional.
Voter suppression for political gain should be prosecuted.
The Constitution also authorizes Congress to intervene in State voting practices. The next government should fix this problem with clear criteria of fairness and an emphasis on enabling all citizens to vote without duress or obstacle.
201
True. But they aren't planning on it sticking. It's about influencing behavior by creating confusion.
3
You know, this issue is a non-issue in every Western country in Europe and in Canada. Yet, in the home where democracy got its start, Americans fight over the right of who gets to vote.
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@Doug Welsh
As much as I am frustrated over dishonest Republican machinations here in Florida, where the legislature has ignored the will of the people on several important constitutional amendments, I must remind Mr. Welsh from Calgary that democracy began in Ancient Greece, and the legal system of the United States is based on that of England, as is Canada's.
The United States cannot claim to be the home of democracy. However, I do hope that in next year's elections we will realize how vulnerable our freedoms are and vote overwhelmingly for candidates who understand that government works for the citizens, not the corporations, of this country. Let us all work to strengthen democracy in all 50 states.
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@Doug Welsh
Democracy didn’t get its start in the US. Nice sentiment, though.
3
@Doug Welsh
Reminds me of the first eligible voters in this country:
Male
Land owners
Hmmm
4
"even as 12,00 Floridians were mistakenly targeted for removal from voter rolls because they were believed to have felony records." The fact that, then Gov. Jeb Bush, hired the same people to handle the voter rolls for the 2004 election shows that this is not a glitch, it is a feature. The Republican legislature did the same things to delay the legalization of medical marijuana, which passed overwhelmingly, twice. They pushed through Stand your Ground gun laws without the public on their side. If you're a Democrat in this state you have no voice, no power and no representation and we have tens of thousands more registered Democrats than Republicans on the rolls. I don't know why they would be afraid of people voting when they don't listen to them anyway.
350
Yet another article in the NYT’s ongoing efforts to develop sympathy for criminals and make it appear that criminals are actually victims.
To set the record straight, victims of crimes are the true victims, the perpetrators—and those who aid, abet and participate in crime with them—are criminals.
I hope all the progressive prosecutors--and Democratic Presidential candidates--will give serious thought to what it means to eliminate bail, reduce sentences and allow criminals to run loose in our communities. Who is responsible for post-release crimes committed by those released early? An apology to their future victims will be of small consolation for those who are harmed; and how about compensation and restitution for the actual victims?
Early release or release without bail of thousands of criminals is a recipe for increased crime, and increased numbers of victims. (Check federal statistics of recidivism rates—very sobering.)
Felons should not be allowed to vote until they have paid applicable fines and have compensated or reimbursed their victims.
12
@Mon Ray I see where you're coming from, but this is not an article about early release.
Voting is a constitutional right. Imprisonment is meant to be the debt to society that must be paid for committing that crime. A release from prison means that debt to society, from a legal standpoint, has been paid.
This is not a commentary on feelings nor does it erase the debts owed. It simply means there is no longer grounds for suspending a constitutional right. (This is particularly true given how unusual it is for a state to be removing a constitutional right in the first place.)
18
@Ellis “Voting is a constitutional right” Constitutional rights are not debatable. Every developed country in the world allows even to vote, so even the prisoners must be allowed to vote.
As for the Supreme Court having another opinion, we should be reminded that the court is a political arm of a sitting government or President without any legal ability to be judging. Even a corporation registration paper in the State [of Delaware] was considered a person by the court. This really makes the court irrelevant.
5
@Mon Ray
What is the point of jail sentences and "paying your debt to society" if that debt is never considered paid? Maybe anyone committing any crime should be sentenced to jail for the rest of their lives since apparently some never pay their debt no matter how many years are served. These aren't hardened criminals. The article states that the right to vote is not restored for people who committed serious crimes like sexual assault and murder. What are their crimes? Petty theft? Drug convictions like possession of marijuana? Fraud, embezzlement? If restitution is paid the victim IS compensated. In the case of drug arrests who is the victim in cases like this?
This is nothing less than taking away the right to vote of those who they believe will be voting against the republican party. If the majority of those convicted were white men who overwhelmingly support republicans this amendment would not have been ignored. The voters overwhelmingly supported this amendment yet once again the elected officials do whatever they want, thwarting the will of the people. Since when did our elected officials become tinpot dictators? And when are the people going to vote them all out?
4
"Also, because Florida keeps no centralized statewide database of legal debt, potential voters are left largely on their own to determine what they owe and whether they might be breaking the law by trying to register."
This is the gift that keeps on giving to FL Republicans: make it impossible for released prisoners to understand what they owe, and that even trying can land them back in jail.
It's the ultimate catch-22, as well as a big nose thumbing of state officials to Florida voters who felt strongly enough about this referendum to pass it.
Republicans never seem to run out of ideas on how to curb the franchise of population groups more likely to vote Democratic. Clearly, they can't win on their message, so they win any way they can.
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@ChristineMcM
I always go back to a focus on the Democrats... if Republicans are successful with voter suppression in any format, then it's up to Democrats to do a better job of educating/enlightening Americans.
8
@Tom. True. But with gerrymandering and other forms of voter suppression the numbers within each district can make all election districts close and major elections impossible to win with only a shift of a fraction of the voters within only a few districts — just like the 2016 election. Add in machine hacking and no paper ballots in many districts and you have a contested election again going to the SC and the Justices voting their conservative politics. End of democracy. South wins Civil War and all workers become wage slaves in short order.
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@ChristineMcM With the amount of money available to the GOP as a result of being in power therefore able to give back to donors, it is a gift that keeps on giving.
Yes, FL GOP is afraid of all those potential black voters & well they should be, they know that they have harmed these people for all of their lives & having them voting is a sure way out of office.
You are so right, they win any way that they can, and with the skewed SCOTUS, the allowances for this will continue long into the future. Justice will probably never prevail in the US, sadly and most certainly never will there be equality.
16
Republicans in Florida are afraid of people voting because they are in control of the entire state other than perhaps Broward County. They control the state colleges where former legislators are making big salaries and they do not wish to share this with others who may be elected by new voters that may favor Democrats. It is now more than 20 years that Republicans have been controlling this states where Democrats outnumber them.
344
Women's choices taken away or curbed, gerrymandering left to continue, voting machines and ballots vulnerable to hacking and security provisions neither updated or utilised, EPA laws and legislation rolled back leaving citizens powerless or subject to increased harm from pollution and those with a criminal conviction despite serving their time , one way or the other, end up serving a life sentence for it ,whether it is the difficulty of getting a job, debt that cannot be afforded or cleared and the basic right to vote made too difficult or too hard to get.
All of the above and the many other restraints, impediments, social barriers, poverty and structures that contain and prevent , that build barriers and hurdles for millions of Americans of living a safe secure and better life than they should not be denied or made so difficult to have.
In the Land of the Free?
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