Bewildered? That's business as usual!
1
Putin must be watching FOX news and enjoying every minute of watching what is happening in our country. He can’t wait to re-elect Trump so he can have four more years of chaos and carnage in America.
5
This shooting in El Paso was all about killing "Mexicans".
This president can not keep his twitter shut about the "invasion" of hispanic criminals, drug dealers, murderers, rapists, and "Very Bad People". He is the biggest reason we are seeing such a rise in White supremest groups in America.
I heard his speech this am about mental health. If anyone needs a shrink it's him.
9
Democrats are obsessed with gun control, which would be the wrong approach.
The main reason behind these attacks is hate. Trump's speeches and tweets are full of hate, and he is responsible for what happened in Gilroy, Ohio, and Texas. Democrats should not let him get away with this.
2
@F
Wrong, it is the guns.
Imagine any one of these recent events occurring with a guy (American citizen white guy with a battlefield weapon) shooting up a crowd with a flintlock?
26
@F, so the reason for these massacres is hate?
Great! Let’s just remove hate from the human character.
That should be pretty easy.
Certainly easier than just ensuring that people don’t have access to a nearly infinite variety of weapons whenever someone steals their parking spot, cuts in line, or breathes in a way that annoys them.
5
What difference does it make if the slaughters occurred the same day, week, or month? They're still slaughters, and they're on everyone who remains silent.
7
People had little difficulty in calling out “Islamic” terrorism. Now it’s “white” terrorism. That’s progress.
But everyone of the current crop has also been Christian. It’s only fair to begin calling it what it is
9
@Henry Saltzman, I just heard on PBS this white supremacy movement is part of a larger global Aryan movement. These are not individual episodes. It has to be addressed globally.
2
I grew up in Dayton and was taught to shoot at 6 years-old. I was surprisingly good. For long and complicated reasons, at 7 years old I made plans to shoot and kill my first-grade teacher. Looking back, I believe the ONLY thing that stopped me was that it was 1955 and I had no role-model.
3
@mah very brave to talk open about this. And what is your point of view now?
We've all had fantasies about killing someone, anyone who denies that is a liar. It's all about access. Thanks for sharing.
1
Trump has blood on his hands. It’s time to hold him accountable.
27
@BillW, CEOs are usually held responsible for mishaps, he should resign. Lawmakers should also resign for being impotent mass shooting after mass shooting after mass shootings.
3
"The nine victims were men and women ranging from 22 to 57 years old" - how can you just print that? Did you check whether the deceased complied with traditional gender roles? What if some were asexual or genderqueer? Did you just assume their gender knowing full well that the people cannot protect their identity from the grave?
1
Maybe the answer to gun violence is not to restrict guns but for people to arm themselves to ward off these killers. This has been said before & it is usually met with comments that it will bring back the wild west. I wonder what the wild west was really like when people carried guns on their hips.It might be worthwhile to look into what really happened in the Wild West.Was there more random killing or less?
1
There was no wild west outside of Indians versus the army; its a Hollywood invention. Most cowboys, a number of which were black and Hispanic were too poor to own guns.
2
Madness. Insanity.
Even in Dodge City people had to check in their guns at the city limit.
How many dead Americans will it take to convince you fewer guns not more us the answer? Or are you beyond reasoning with?
3
@independent1776- this must be a fever dream to suggest that gun violence would be curbed if everyone had a gun on their hip. Admittedly, it might help with one of our big problems of too many people but not in an effective manner.
Otherwise, it is an insane idea. Period.
2
We don't need guns. We only think we need guns.
How do we change the attitudes? Until we do, there will be no real change in guns, accessibility or use.
There's nothing wrong with strict controls over weapons, types, capabilities and ammunition. There's everything wrong if we do nothing.
Expect more deaths before we as a nation wake up and change.
5
I attended the pray vigil in Dayton last night. It was a vile display of left wing hatred. No respect for those who lost their lives. When the governor of Ohio spoke they started shouting ranting and chanting. We had to leave.
1
Or maybe, they were expressing the anger of those who lost their lives.
8
How many prayers and vigils will it take to bring back those shot and killed, or heal those with critical un-repairable injuries? Blaming calls for action as "left wing" rants is nonsense.
My 85 year old aunt and uncle, life long Republicans and church going Christians, say that Republicans today are out of their minds, off the rails and in the pockets of every corporate propaganda machine dedicated to power and wealth, with no regard for people and our planet. I am confident Christ feelings same way. My aunt and uncle would ban and confiscate all guns until gun advocates, dealers, manufacturers and their politicians grow up and take responsibility for the hate filled violent world they have been creating. If that's "left wing", then our nation's founding ideals are left wing.
6
At this moment, public prayer feels hollow and hypocritical. Earnest private prayer might have the power to awaken the sleep-walking deluded spirit of our republic, but we also need the power of citizenry to rise up and to speak the truth: loving our neighbors as we love ourselves will set us free.
2
"Ban assault weapons"
How did the Volstead Act of 1919 work out for Americans?
1
Is last weekend in Gilroy California already ancient history? Two children and a young adult were murdered by a gun legally purchased in Nevada and brought into a state with strict gun control laws. I'm sorry, this coverage isn't right, but that's how it is everywhere. What is happening here? There's a man with a gun over there.
4
Want to see this stop? Vote all current incumbent politicians, in both parties, out of office at the earliest opportunity. Tell them why. Every voter thinks every politician is to blame, except the ones they vote for. Vote yours out. Don’t vote to re-elect Donald Trump. They didn’t start under him; nevertheless, mass shootings are going to increase the longer Trump and his enablers remain in office. It’s in how they think about anyone different (read: non-white) and the urge to violence implicit in the words they use to express their hatred and bigotry. Make it clear that no one will get into office who isn’t ready to tighten restrictions on guns until it’s impossible to buy or keep an assault weapon; damned near impossible to buy more handguns; and impossible to buy or sell ammunition without a permit. And then develop buy-back programs for existing guns. It will take years, generations, but eventually, the tools will be controlled. At the same time, the smart people can figure out why so many shooters have suddenly lost their minds and decided that killing first-graders and concert goers is a good way to get their frustrations out. But this problem isn’t going away simply by trying to keep guns away from nuts. Like it or not, the guns have to go. You can start with mine. I can’t even look at them anymore.
3
Stunned, is anyone actually stunned? I find that hard to believe. Perhaps the headline should be, another coup for Russia and their NRA?p partners?
3
The latest gun study by Boston University:
https://link.springer.com/epdf/10.1007/s11606-019-04922-x?
There are a variety of studies by RAND, FBI, Secret Service, etc.
1
How ironic that the El Paso shooter was acting against the “Hispanic invasion” of Texas, given that the Hispanics were here first, and that we stole Texas from Mexico.
7
"The shootings prompted Republicans, including Trump, to condemn the gunmen’s actions"
After three years of a dedicated effort to create an environment where the level of hatred for certain ethnic minorities is so high that much of their base can be found on the internet fantasizing about lining the southern border with mines and machine gun nests and using them.
If the Democrats are serious about restoring the nation to sanity then this weekend shouldn't have "ground the 2020 campaign to a halt" as the article claims. It should inspire their candidates to make an all out effort to show who should accept most of the blame for the state of the union.
3
I agree with the NRA’s position that guns in the hands of responsible citizens aren't the problem, I think the problem is that the majority of the hardcore NRA supporters don't qualify as responsible citizens.
Responsible citizens don't see rights as absolutes, they don't view every single effort to keep guns out of the hands of unhinged people as an effort to confiscate theirs.
Responsible citizens, which might include a majority of gun owners too, understand that the second amendment says 'the right to keep and bear arms', not the right to never be inconvenienced whenever you decide you want a new toy (and they should admit that for the vast majority of people, that's what assault weapon style semiauto rifles are, toys.)
Responsible citizens understand that the need to keep guns out of the hands of the mentality unstable, people on terrorist watch lists, and abusive spouses trumps their desire to obtain the maximum amount of firepower with the minimal amount of inconvenience and cost.
1
Have the House draw a bill and vote on ban of semi and automatic weapons. Have the Congress vote and go on record that they are for or against the sale and ownership of weapons that can kill a multitude of lives within 5 minutes. It probably won't pass on a initial undertaking but it can be a something a voter can consider when they go to vote for their incumbent candidates. There needs to be a consensus building platform so that our elected officials can be held accountable for their support of uncontrolled selling of military style weaponry.
1
God is good and wise. Everyone has the power to say yes or no to God. There is a Heaven for those who follow the word of God. Those that fail to follow the goodness of God live in a state of confusion. There is darkness for those who wish to do as they wish. Atheists say they do not believe in the existence of God nor in the existence of Satan. Atheists are asked how they are able to discern between decent and indecent, between moral and immoral, and between right and wrong when raising a family and little children. Atheists are asked if they depend on the supreme court jesters and man’s laws to provide those answers. Atheists are asked if their parents and families taught them right from wrong. Atheists are asked if their past generations of family histories were founded in Christianity, the Bible, church and God. Their answer is I believe in no one, I am who I am, I answer to no one, and I do what I want to do.
Blessed are those who do not see yet believe. To those who believe in His name: who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
In the end as Jesus was crucified Jesus said, “Forgive them for they know not what they do.” And among believers He lives forever. These words will only have meaning to Christians, but not to atheists and agnostics.
Some months ago, maybe even last year, there was an article in the NYT stating that as long as the NRA kept donating money to politicians, particularly the GOP, nothing much in the way of gun control would happen. You are so right!
4
The shootings used to be kids with problems taking it out on their schools; or disgruntled men taking aim at their ex wives or parents; or ex employees who take out their anger on their former co workers.
Then Obama became president and all the worst of humanity began to seethe building shared hatred through the internet until Trump was elected. They found their leader and felt safe to come out of the shadows. No one has been safe since.
until there are strong gun laws, America is vulnerable to the whims of the self loathing paranoid ignoramus. This segment of human nature is not going away but the instrument of destruction can be removed.
2
People killed and injured by a white domestic terrorists.
Watch how quickly they are forgotten. Who remembers Americans killed and injured by a white-power terrorist in Oklahoma?
Who notices how the attacks increased after 2016? Coincidence?? I don't think so. Why are these domestic terrorists white? Coincidence? I don't think so.
Trump deflects his responsibility with gibberish about the internet, video games. He refuses to see he validated white-power with his alt-right talk about "invasion" of "aliens" who are rapists coming to replace good Americans to take their jobs. Telling non-white members of Congress who don't agree with him to "go back where they came from".
Trump mouthed words against hate and racism, without seeing how he speaks hate and racism EVERY DAY. Someone else is always at fault. Never himself.
He feeds terrorists, gives them permission -- even if he never said the words "kill people not like us". Terrorists even THANK trump for his leadership!!
Trump speaks white-power language, knows the code words.
He must STOP the constant encouragement of terrorists. He must clearly say he is WRONG. Stop grinning when people shout to shoot refugees. Stop attacking dissenters. He must stop.
But, that would mean he understood he can be wrong. I don't think he can do that.
2
There's no question but that President Donald has enabled these events. Even if these people have been sitting on their blaming others for their difficulties for a while, it's been our president who has let them follow their notions to the point of allowing them to feel they have to destroy people they get the notion have somehow caused whatever difficulties they've been having in life.
3
Gun violence predated Trump. Gun violence has predated everything but guns. No guns means no gun violence.
3
Wasn't it former Speaker Of The House Paul Ryan who stated there was nothing about having a mental illness in the Second Amendment of our Constitution?
Mr. Trump now says it is mental illness, not guns, causing the violence. If true, why does our U.S. Congress prevent the Centers For Disease Control from working this issue? Possibly to take news stories away from foreign governments manipulating our elections?
All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to remain silent.
Posted by an "old white guy." Good luck GOP, you're gonna' need it.
2
I have to wonder if there is a cadre of white supremacists who realize how stupid these idiots are, and who are sickened by their actions, for two reasons. First, like every one else, they have empathy for the victims and feel terrible for the damage they have done. And second (to a lesser degree) they are terrible for the reputation of white people, especially males.
If you wanted white males to remain in charge of the world, shooting up a mall in the name of that cause is the worst thing you could do.
Whoever they are, I wish they would start haunting these alt-right web sites, finding the disaffected losers, and talking them out of these actions. Then they could be brought into the fold and converted into productive American citizens with a weird and unpopular, but perfectly legal belief system. And nobody would get shot.
I know white supremacy is unpopular and unsustainable, but Americans have the right to weird and unsustainable beliefs as long as they don't break the law. Yet someone is talking disaffected losers into breaking the law in the most egregious manner imaginable, in the name of white supremacy, and I wonder who's really behind it. Could it be agent provocateurs acting on behalf of the reconquista crowd or some foreign government? Or are white supremacists really stupid enough to think that this helps their cause?
I smell a rat.
When will Trump be hoist with his own petard? Will no one rid us of this protofascist buffoon? The thanks of a grateful nation await.
5
Who is stunned? This is the reality we have allowed the gun-nuts to create for us. There are no good guys with guns just folks who haven't snapped yet.
3
Clyde - Did Obama inspire all the killings during his tenure? This needs to be attacked at it's root. Video games where you learn to kill, Mass murder on display daily on TV and Movies, no value for human life, no strong parental role models. Oh, just another average weekend in Chicago with 7 killed and another 46 shot. What page of the NYT was that on?
3
Mass killing in daylight is an insanity. Trump returned on Sunday to the White House from his golf club did not condemn White Nationalist/White Supremacy ideology is the motive behind this massacre as review by the killer's manifesto. Trump just mentioned the killing " Mental Illness ".
Yes, White Supremacy ideology is a " MENTAL ILLNESS ".
2
Gun nuts will scream for more guns, gun rights advocates will scream for more regulation, politicians will offer thoughts and prayers and keep collecting that sweet NRA money, totally unaffected by the blood splattered all over it. Nothing will change. Gun rights are a politically radioactive issue that will alienate a large voter base. When you strip it all away, until people will take their blinders off and recognize that the ubiquitous access to guns is to blame for these tragedies, not violent video games, not mental illness, nothing will change. 2nd Amendment advocates need to start accepting some of the blame here, or we'll just continue down this blood soaked road of thoughts and prayers and zero change after mass shootings, which, "for some reason" are an almost DAILY occurrence in THIS country, but other developed countries, which also have mental illness and violent video games, do not have them at all or only very rarely. WHY, I wonder. Why oh why could that possibly be?
3
The only reason Americans are "bewildered" about these mass shootings is our consistent denial of the 'gun' in gun violence.
Half the country looks at every single aspect of a mass shooting except the 'gun'. From abusive childhood trauma to lack of armed security guards, they are hell bent to find a cause that points away from the 'gun'. Anything to blame except the 'gun' and its wide availability across our land. In this America does stand alone in the world, 4% of the world's population yet owning 46% of the guns in the entire world. We have 2nd Amendment insanity driven by money and power to never end because of some misinformed God given right to arm ourselves beyond reason.
The other half of our nation is "bewildered" that mass shootings in every area of our life are considered acceptable collateral damage in support of 'gun' rights.
It is our failure that these hideous mass killings have not brought us to any sort of solution. Our entire body politic can not handle this emergency. Money talks before the dead. And we limp forward towards more death because someone wants to hold the cold metal of a 'gun' in his hands and that reality is more precious than life. It's not "bewilderment" it's insanity.
3
"Bewildered?" really?
Absolutely no one is bewildered.
!) You elected an ignorant incompetent racist and a LOT of people were absolutely thrilled by this. The majority of white people voted for him.
2) The GOP has spent the last 50 years woo-ing the racist vote. And the democrats haven't done a whole lot about it.
3) There are more guns than people in the United states.
10
But we can't have a real debate about such things as feeding teenagers anti-depressants, even though almost all of these young school shooters have been under psychiatric care.
1
The arsonist is now calling in the fire department. But, only if they are white. Disgusting.
The hypocrite Trump says, “hate has no place in our country, and we are going to take care of it.” He said that “a lot of things are in the works.” Really? Then I guess you have no place in this country as you cannot foment and incite hatred toward at your fascist "rallies" (lock her up, send her back) then flip-flop and claim the high ground when the mass shootings you on some level encourage, happen. No you cannot have it both ways Trump. If "hate has no place in this country", you have no place in this country.
BTW, nothing is "in the works". That is just another lie on the way to 11,000 lies during the FAKE POTUS presidency.
2
History is always a good teacher.
If you refuse to acknowledge , you repeat and repeat...………….
1
trump’s attempt to couple gun control and immigration is rubbish.
1
People? Is it possible for Champ Bailey to have 15 minutes of Executive Time with trump so that he can reprise his remarks at the Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio? Be Best? I doubt it. Never thought I'd go to bed with one massacre and wake up to another. Sad.
1
The president has just stated he is a Nationalist, in the sense of The National Socialist German Workers' Party, basically a NAZI. The NRA has transformed itself from a gun training organization to the political arm of the American white supremacist terrorist organization. The GOP, as a whole, is useless against and even complicit in the growing hate. It's time for decent Americans to realize that defeating this hate movement is the most paramount issue in the United States. It's time to take to the streets. It's take back our country!
3
@MAC
Raise the Antifa banner high !
white guys. white guys with guns. white guys with guns emboldened by other white guys. spewing rage. spewing bullets. white guys. "I see no pattern" says the media. except white guys with guns. shooting brown and black people. white guys with guns. tarted up in their cammo. white guys with guns. white guys
6
When is the NYT’s going to stop glorifying these killers. You always write these long stories, repeatedly PRINTING the killer’s name.
And throughout it all you don’t even hold the person who is responsible for this particular atrocity accountable, the cult leader, trump.
I wrote a comment yesterday describing how trump’s hate-filled rhetoric and promotion of violence make him complicit and directly responsible for these deaths, but you certainly didn’t publish my comment. You complain about trump daily, but protect him by not acknowledging his, and all the republicans in office who replete his bigotry, large role in the murders of 29 innocent people.
The news media is just as complicit as trump and republicans in giving constant attention to these lunatics which inspires others to copycat.
We always blame guns and the mentally ill for these acts of violence. We demand gun reform and more access for the mentally ill for a few days (which nothing is ever done about), and we talk very little about the media’s very large role in these attacks continuing. Is it not time they are held accountable as well? They have been just as responsible for the continued violence by making these killers famous for the mass murders they commit.
1
Wow. Those AK15s really do the job!
2
The manifesto spoke of a “Hispanic invasion of Texas,” maybe the kid did not know that most of US Southwest once belong to old Mexico!
7
"Hate has no place in America," says the hate-monger-in-chief????!!! What alternate reality does he inhabit? What form of denial does he practrice? What brand of delusional kool-aid does he drink? Shame on ALL of his supporters and apologists. They are enablers of the sickness spewing forth from this despicable fraud who pals around with murderous dictators and incites violence among his followers. DOWN WITH TRUMP. He must be impeached.
2
Editors, Your title needs to be "Back to Back to Back" (Gilroy is part of this anti-immigrant domestic terrorist murder effort).
1
I will try once again; however hard it may be; to be respectful of a nation whose culture of the wild west 1800`s never seems to get past itself; as day after day/week after week/ month after month/ year after year; continues to prove guns are far important in your society than human life. You prove that every time dozens of innocents are murdered; and your stinking N.R.A. apologists just continue to say there is nothing to be done. SICK! I for one will continue to shake my head every time I hear how wonderful the U.S. is. There needs to be a serious reality check here people. There is a cancer in your society that is getting worse all the time. Of course you have an idiot in the White House who is part of the problem; NOT the solution. My cousin in Arkansas was shot dead decades ago; and the woman who killed him walked away scot free. To me your nation has become a giant basket case of dysfunctional violence; where insanity is left to run amok. America the Beautiful? America the land of mass murder!!!
2
America’s idiotic voters are getting exactly the national slaughterhouse the fools voted for with Trump. Americans have seen this death spiral build for decades, yet fully 40% of our citizens adore Trump’s hate-machine almost as much as their AK-47s. The majority could drive Trump, his puppet-master Putin, and the NRA into the political sea next week if they would have massive, furious Hong Kong-style tallies against our weekly slaughters in cities from coast to coast. Make McConnel fear the voters more than the NRA. Or wake up tomorrow shicked—shocked!—that “something like this” could bow away your little daughter, too. Like all our stupid problems, this one is the fault of lazy, complacent American voters who refuse to bend the politicians to their will by any mass means necessary.
2
We are not bewildered, we are mad as hell. And want active measures to be taken to get guns out of people’s hands who mean to do harm. We want our lawmakers to wake up, now.
2
The right to bear arms may be needed by police authorities, and by the military. The right to bear arms may be used by families for their protection. However, it was also used by those who murdered others to satisfy their own twisted view of life. Multiple mental disorders may be at the forefront of these twisted minds. But the right to bear arms is also used by criminals, the mafia, the Mexican Mafia, drug cartels, drug traffickers, street gangs, the "hell angel's" and other motorcycle gangs, rapists, aryan nation racist groups, extremist Islamic Isis, Muslim terrorist groups, skinhead racist groups, KKK, neo nazi groups, and other criminal groups. These criminals will always have weapons legally or illegally.
In the final analysis Constitutional laws don't prevent or make people do things. People will make their own choices whether that choice is constitutional or unconstitutional, whether that choice is decent or indecent, whether that choice is moral or immoral, or whether that choice is right or wrong.
The 6th Commandment says, “Thou shalt not kill.” Exodus 20.13.
I really don't understand why you (the NYT) think the nation is "bewildered" by these attacks. Why should we be? We allow civilians to buy weapons of war and limitless ammunition to go with them, we have a president hell-bent on inciting hatred and division for political purposes, we have a propaganda machine disguised as a cable network that echoes his every senseless rant, we have a gigantic lobbying machine for the gun industry, and we have a do-nothing, stall-everything leader in the Senate. Bewildered? Not me.
1
Hey NYT. Do me and all of us a favor and don’t publish a photo of blood splatters that look like an a photo that should be hung in a Photography 101 exhibit. A poor decision for this reader. What are you trying to do; make mass murder pretty?
Yet the one person in the entire world who should be stunned and upset is not.
The fact that this bag of no-soul, no-heart, no-brain waste of oxygen is President is the reason for so much cowardly, misogynistic, xenophobic and racist violence.
You know what they say: Fish stinks from the head.
2
Rather than discuss once again gun issues, how about we as a nation discuss the real problem -- males who act out through extreme violence. Enough already.
4
You make a very valid point that the overwhelming number of individuals committing mass acts of violence are men-men armed with high-powered weapons. More often than not, these males are youthful and white. The entire picture needs to be examined.@EDC
1
The world looks n in bewilderment. Not because these things happen; they are now far too commonplace in your country. Bewildered that there is no serious desire to do anything about it. It is not about just banning high capacity weapons. It is about changing the mindset of those that believe that guns are for shooting people. Nowhere else in the world can you buy a gun for the purpose of using it to shoot people. Guns manufactured and sold in the United States are created and sold for just that purpose. The problem is cultural and endemic in accepting guns in everyday life, as distinct from elsewhere in the world, where they are only available for gun clubs or hunting. In most countries if you even suggest you need it for protection you will be denied a permit for ever.
It is the mindset that needs to change. "Good guys with guns" is borne of Hollywood fantasy. It has no place in reality and people need to be made aware of such.
7
No they don’t. They do not stun the country. It’s like Northern Ireland in the 70s, we are numb.
3
The utter hypocrisy of The Donald standing on the grass with his wife looking equally stunned and proclaiming concern while bearing responsibility for the ongoing and endless havoc and deaths across your nation when the Gun Lobby paid for his present position makes one wonder what can one do.
For him to diagnose others would be laughable under different circumstances. Where are those 17 SHRINKS who wrote that book. Time to take The Donald aside,meet one on one In a little room, walk him down that long hallway at the White House, escort him into the underground, drive him to an institution wearing a wig to escape media notice.That is the view from the Left Coast. Cheers.
1
Who is Mr. Trump trying to kid? Who was it who said they could shoot someone at Times Square and be just as popular as they are? Who was it who said believers of the second amendment should exercise their rights? Who was it that said hit them in the face and I'll pay your legal bills? If indeed a mental issue, why does our Congress prevent the CDC from analyzing and working the issue?
I've been calling U.S. Senators trying to ask these questions. All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to remain quiet.
Geeze..., (head hung in shame)
4
I am an old guy and won't be around much longer but, if I were young and knew what I know now, I would be gone out of here. The government of the United States, at least the Republican branch, does nothing for the health and safety of American citizens. They characterize national health insurance as socialism and quake in their boots at the sight of the NRA. Americans, even small children, are gunned down in droves but the politicians do absolutely nothing to prevent the next attack.
5
I blame the NYT and the rest of the “liberal media”.
You have the pulpit - use it or continue to get decimated by Trump and Fox News in terms of readership, influence and policy impact.
The headline is “He spread hate - they responded””.
That’s what happened. That’s what will continue to happen.
You can dress it up or continue to sit it out in the name of “unbiased” coverage. People are looking for insight and guidance. Not just watered down analysis.
You have the pulpit. Use it.
2
The stage is set for yet another delivery of concern and sadness resulting from such incidents which, for the record, the rest of the world feels too.
What is galling is that the President feigns that he is surprised, blames the press and a couple of mentally sick youngsters for the results.
If there weren't other causes such as the President's tone and words, increasingly shrill these days, all of which are on the record btw, and the obstruction by the GOP, also on the record, this might be an isolated incident.
Clearly it isn't, so the President's divisive remarks should cease, The GOP should spring into action on effective gun controal and all should lead to coordinated action to define and manage the changes needed.
I await the outcome but, like many others , I don't believe in Sant Claus either!
2
There is a whole lot of hand wringing hyperbole on this comment board about "something" should be done.
Please list exactly what you think should be done to prevent crazy people from killing innocent people with a gun.
1
Since liberals are too busy with the blame game, it's time they took on their share of it. Liberals, like conservatives, have become extremist and are actually naive enough to think it'll do them some good. Hey libs, it's not working for conservatives either, in case you weren't paying attention. Ask the voters, few of whom are even party loyalists anymore. They want sane, rational, competent leadership, not a bunch of punks picking fights in the halls. If you want their votes, earn 'em!
1
This past weekend, seven people were shot dead and 46 were wounded, by gunfire, in Chicago. Perhaps we should add this senseless violence to the weekend list.
2
Nothing will change. WE are being held hostage by our own government. The fake news is 8chan and Fox. The population of this country has been lied and manipulated by business and religious interests so much that is has breed warped minded men who believe they are superior humans and are entailed to things they refuse to work for themselves. Americans openly Hating it's own citizens and people make money on Fox telling other Americans to openly Hate other Americans and other Humans. The president of the UNITED STATES is complicit and responsible to racist rhetoric against tax paying, honest, God loving citizens of this country and has fostered an environment of Extremism and Narcissism within our own borders. I pray God strikes them down and if Americas cared they will boycott the economy, their jobs and everything because face it is not safe to GO OUTSIDE. Enough people have been murdered and there is NO drill to prepare you for this. Our country has forsaken us.
1
If we are not going to ban the sale of assault type guns, we ought to register and monitor everyone that buys one of these weapons. The ONLY purpose of a military grade assault rifle is to kill PEOPLE. Not practical as a sporting gun or a hunting gun. Therefore any one that owns one has the intention of killing people and they need to be registered and monitored. Not sure my suggestion is workable but something must be done!
2
These weapons should not be in private ownership. We need a buyback program and then, after a reasonable period of time after these guns needed to be turned in, criminalization of possession of these weapons.
Other countries have Islamic terrorists, white nationalists, etc. Yet they don't have frequent mass murders. Why? Better gun control. We can't eliminate hateful groups, but we can limit their access to weapons.
“Stunned”, “bewildered” and “shaken”. Really? For a day, maybe a week and then the US moves on and the slaughter is allowed to continue. Not very civilized.
4
Old age brings historical recall. It is as though the young Far Right missed out on their 1960s-70s, and a few young righties want to bring ‘60s-style domestic terrorism to U.S. again. Of course the govt responded back then ([delete COINTELPRO]) but this time, we have an anti-FBI-er at the top of The Executive Branch. Let’s see what happens.
1
Were Mass Shootings an Olympic Event the USA would get the Gold, Silver and Bronze. We have virtually no competition. Obviously the sick (usually white young) men who do this seem to be in competition with the past shooters. Do they buy this cult weapon AR15 dreaming of going out in a blaze of glory? Does the advertising and marketing on these weapons lure these individuals towards these particular weapons? Or is the death count from these weapons the most effective number in marketing them.
Maybe the manufacturers should price these weapons out of reach of the average twenty something male? Do I hear $25,000? Maybe the manufacturer should be the entity to vet the buyer and do a real back ground check and phycological exam?
In the mean time I advise all sane people to stay away from Walmart’s, Food Festivals, Universities, High Schools, Elementary Schools, movie theaters, post offices, government buildings, political rallies. Have I missed any?
2
More to come as disaffected and marginalized young white heterosexual males lash out in revolt of being treated so harshly. With favoritism poured onto women and blacks, young white males are tired of being shamed for being a normal male. The liberals, gays and progressives are too much to bear if you are a young white heterosexual male.
1
“I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and wouldn’t lose any voters, okay?” Trump said, mimicking firing a gun with his fingers. “It’s, like, incredible.”
Now I wonder if Trump will pardon this kid?
IQ45's Base
Neuroscientist: Why Trumpists Will Never Abandon Trump (conservatives are hyper sensitive to threat/fear) This is all Trump and the GOP preach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65RH5rjNWdc
The Dunning-Kruger Effect. (Sociological Perspective)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW9R6jgE7SQ&t=2s
This give you a possible way to approach conservative/Trump voters
What are the odds Trump will go comfort the people of El Paso? About the same as those for comforting the people of Puerto Rico after their hurricane. Wrong race, and he's a coward.
1
At first let me offer my condolences to all victims family,it's a real grief. May God bestow them patience. Dear U.S. citizens I'm from Iran that is far from you a lot. Just I was wondering to make you think Muslims and eastern countries above all Iran are violent so should be controlled while it's born out by your own statistic over 10000 persons have been killed in a ONE year. TBH we don't have the same in Iran and without a doubt is safer then U.S. thus stop judging
1
Hispanic invasion of Texas? I’m pretty sure Texas was in Mexico before we grabbed it away from them. Therefore, many residents of that monstrous state are of Mexican descent. They aren’t invading us..we invaded them. Perhaps a few lessons in American history would dissolve some of the hate so prevalent now. As for “REAL Americans...how about Native Americans? Oh, that’s right, I nearly forgot...Native Americans often have permanent sun tans. Guess they don’t count either. My maternal ancestors arrived in Salem in the 16th Century and I have Native American DNA combined with the Spanish and English....hmmmmm Can I stay here?
1
Imagine… talk about manifesto’s, watching the democratic rogues gallery for Presidential wannabes, should have you marveling at the rhetorical panaceas political wastrels are willing to fabricate to achieve their political fancies.
Imagine… political wunderkinds casting any and all not adhering to their cultish dreams with racial aspersions! Talk about ‘ECO-ANXIETY’ gone the way of radical neo-nonsensical mumbo-jumbo designed to marginalize any and all not adhering to their cult.
Imagine… regards this weekends deadly shootings; you have to wonder when our politically correct wunderkinds might be held accountable for inciting the dysfunctional idiots among us to carryout their heinous manifestos.
"Outbreak of gun violence": NYT, you must change your vocabulary. How about "The daily barbarian carnage in the exceptional USA"? (Google Gun Violence Archive)
2
Why does the NYT have to suggest in its headline that the nation is bewildered? The nation knows where the problem lies and simply has no interest in solving it.
3
America has lost its collective mind as a worm that was always in its brain has awakened.
1
NYT, your headline is very misleading. This country is not “Bewildered “. Everyone knows what’s happening in this country. The President is inciting hate and racism with his rhetoric. He inspires white supremacy terrorists to go on shooting sprees. All the while the GOP sits back and does nothing speak out against him or our gun laws because of their self serving party power over country agenda. Have some guts NYT and call it like it is.
2
Mass killing in daylight is an insanity. Trump returned on Sunday to the White House from his golf club did not condemn White Nationalist/White Supremacy ideology is the motive behind this massacre as review by the killer's manifesto.
Trump just mentioned the killing " Mental Illness ". Yes, White Supremacy ideology is a " MENTAL ILLNESS ".
2
It is awful and horrible and I feel for the communities and families. But the killing of children at Sandy Hook was unable to forge political consensus and change. These killings will be similarly ineffectual. The only thing that has changed is the international community no longer expects or hopes the US will act, but rather accepts that the right to bear arms takes precedent over the right to be protected from them.
That's some twisted ethical reasoning
35
So...Trump now calling for stronger background checks BUT...tied to immigration reform...he legitimizes El Paso shooter's intent - to reduce immigrants, or as the shooter stated in his manifesto, "the Hispanic invasion of Texas."
Exactly HOW can this get anymore insane?!
7
Trump's request for Conress to do something will be the ultimate test for the Republican Party.
If they finally break down and pass something, Trump will brag: "see, I'm the only president (sic) who could get this done!" But of course, it will only serve to corroborate what we've known all along, i.e. that the Republicans in Congress are craven hypocrites, because they could have done this many times in the past, but wouldn't budge because they refused to work with any Democrat president in any manner.
But if they cave in (as usual) to the NRA, then they once again demonstrate what we've known all along, i.e. that they're craven hypocrites who believe that an embryo has a "right to life" but an adult has no such rights to feel that their life is safe even when they go out to buy groceries.
Dear God, please let this be the tipping point where enough voters in Red states say "enough is enough" and vote McConnell and the rest of the despicable Republiucans out of office!
4
Who's bewildered? I'm not.
5
To be clear, Americans have NOT grown numb to gun violence! We have grown outraged at politicians who are owned by the NRA and hide behind the Second Amendment to justify their own inaction and their own greed.
Each mass shooting is regarded as a turning point that will surely stir congress to action THIS time, but it never does. What has changed since Sandy Hook?
The 2020 election can't come soon enough!
5
To each Republican and conservative voter : do you know how much money your representative took from the NRA? Remember that number next time people in your district or state get killed by a mass shooter because that is how much your life is worth to your congress person.
2
How is “strengthening immigration laws” going to stop angry young white males from committing mass shootings?
5
Enough of the prayers and thoughts. Enough of the lame excuses that these horrific acts are all caused only by the mentally ill. It's time for action on gun control. For starters, 100% of purchases should require background checks - especially at gun shows. A terrible statistic: 50% of the top ten mass murders happened in the last 3 years. Who does that point to? Correct.
4
This weekend two people perpetrated violent, mass shootings. One had been expelled from high school twice, once for bringing to school a list of girls he wanted to rape, and once from bringing a list of people he wanted to kill. The other posted a violent manifesto on the internet before the killing and was apparently involved in violent chat rooms. Meanwhile roughly 100 million law abiding gun owners did not go out and kill anyone. When people tell us they want to commit violent acts, maybe we should pay attention to those individuals?
2
What regulations would have prevented this tragedy?
What regulations would stop ILLEGAL GUN violence?
18 people were shot in 3 hours in Chicago over the weekend - what new regulation would have prevented that?
100 people die in car wrecks every single day - what regulation would prevent that?
2
@99percent
I know what enables a lot of senseless killing: The Second Amendment. Repeal that and we'll have real progress.
2
@99percent time to take all guns out of our country.
3
What is so horrifying about regulation? What if only one life was saved by regulation?
1
Is there an absolute heart to this problem in the U.S.? Yes, there is. Can it be discussed rationally? No, it cannot. Until that changes, America will remain a shooting gallery.
At this point, readers almost certainly assume I am talking about access to firearms. I am not. The issue plaguing the U.S. right now is the Republican Party's voting base. And why can't that be discussed rationally? Because there is a self-imposed taboo, a fearful excess of political correctness, surrounding dialog about stupid people. The Republican Party has transformed, over the last forty years, into the party for stupid people. In order to better serve their wealthy and corporate masters, Republican politicians have bet the farm on emotional appeals rather than defending their policies. Racist, xenophobic, fear-based messaging has been wildly successful in coercing unsophisticated voters into voting against their own best interests. How wildly successful? A failed real estate developer turned vapid "reality" TV host, a man without virtue, currently has a roughly 90% approval rating among Republican voters as sitting president.
What does all that have to do with gun violence? Well, every sensible, fact-based proposal to stem the carnage is repelled by transparent lies about Democrats "coming to take away your guns". Facts and evidence are irrelevant to stupid people. They respond to emotional dog whistles, not reason. That Donald Trump has even a remote shot at reelection proves my point.
4
There is no utopia in Bellbrook or anywhere :(
The first step of breaking the fever of xenophobia and racial hatred is to wake up and recognize #maga for what it is.
glad to know that trump’s thoughts and prayers are with the people of toledo. if we cannot expect him to get city right for America’s most recent death of innocents do you really expect him to have a way to help to start to solve this horrific issue?
if he cannot act effectively then we must remove him.
2
After every shooting, the candlelit vigils. Understandably, we must show respect and mourn those innocent lives. But, that's not action. More than anything, it's what we must have, now! Action means doing something to rectify. Horrified citizens (there must be more now than ever, I hope) must demand their lax gun law states (so many) to immediately change them - this is an emergency! It means voting out the do nothing, NRA gun loving, Republicans on the state level. Yes, it is them. Before their terms are up, visit their offices, show your faces and demand immediate action. And, let's not forget voters. Every community, large and small, must get the unregistered, registered. Get them out to vote in every election including the all important House Representative. Oh yeah, be sure they vote for the right candidate!
POTUS, having mouthed a few well worn platitudes, then goes to play golf. That shows how much he cares.
And we can show how much we care for him in November 2020.
3
Why not just call this what it is -- domestic terrorism.
3
So how many more flowers candles and bears should we keep posting? Mass shooting after mass shooting after mass shooting. The truth is America is worse than a third world country consumed by rage, the difference being in third world hot countries no one picks up a gun and starts shooting, but here in America people are blood thirsty, violence flows through their veins like blood and they glorify violence so if you are mad and it’s too hot, go ahead and flaunt your guns! Bring them out and start shooting at whoever you are mad at. That is what our country has become, no need to deny. No place is safe any longer: malls, schools, college campuses, concert halls, movie halls, places of worship, parks and gardens, any place we wish to congregate- no place is safe anymore. Trump talks about rat infested Baltimore, how about gun infested America! How many guns do you own Mr President! How many guns do the Republican lawmakers own, can we please have a headcount!
4
@petey tonei i'll tell you one place is safe, the capitol building.
@Allison, sadly no! We were in DC at that time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_Capitol_shooting_incident
I just watched the President talk about this -- no mention of the dangerous rhetoric that comes from him every single day (of course). All the American people get is one diversion after another - mental illness and the media have been his dictatorial diatribes, now he's adding video games -- really? Never would I have thought in my life in this great country, that a vicious, ignorant, white nationalist would be sitting in the WH and leading rallies where other White Nationalists scream out that immigrants should be shot and Trump in his best Mussolini face joins in and says you can only get away with that in the Pan Handle -- this was three months ago -- not three years ago. He's a liar and he's very, very dangerous. I really hope his supporters finally see him for what he really is.
4
No,the country is NOT stunned or bewildered as the title suggests. If nothing changed when 20 young children were massacred in Sandy Hook ,Newtown,there is no chance anything is going to change now.
4
Since our government cannot pull together and act to address this issue, how about giving everyone education in how to apply tourniquets, and issue at least 2 tourniquets to each person?
4
I was going to say "I wonder if Republicans would change their tune if one of their own was a victim?" Then I remembered the Republican baseball practice and Steve Scalise, and realized that we already know the answer to that question.
3
It is unfortunate, but the only people who are "stunned" when so many people are killed are those who have experienced gun violence themselves and those who sympathize with their suffering. The politicians who have ability to ban assault weapons for good could not care less. The statistics are there for anyone to see. During the ten years that assault weapons were banned mass killings declined more than 40 percent.
A background check would have been meaningless in El Paso. Would it have asked the shooter if he was a hate-filled white nationalist? Would it have asked why he wanted to purchase a high capacity weapon? Background checks can be helpful but they are not enough.
We need a permanent assault weapons/high capacity weapons ban, no more straw sales, nationwide registration of guns, and all other measures that can insure against gun violence, mass shootings or otherwise. This must stop. Our Founding Fathers did not include the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights so that neighbors could kill their neighbors.
45
@EMiller
The methodological issue is to use case studies to see what laws/regulations would have changed the outcome historically. Read the studies by the FBI, Secret Service, RAND, etc.
Sadly, the determined murderer has a wide variety of options: fire, bombs, trucks, knives, etc.
Semi-auto rifles, shotguns, and pistols have been around since the 1940s. There are no "assault weapons" being sold in the US.
The Navy Yard shooter used a pump shotgun. The VA Tech shooter used pistols.
Almost all the solutions people talk about are either in place or have little effect. Strawman purchasers are illegal today. But the Columbine shooters still had a friend buy a gun for them. Background checks are great, but many shooters have no illicit backgrounds.
Meanwhile 30,000 die every year from folks not knowing simple first aid (NAS). Or 480,000 die from smoking every year (CDC).
Isaac Asimov once observed that we have theories about violence, but we never want to address that it's the way we raise our children.
The reality is that America has had enormous demographic shifts along with huge economic shifts and deteriorating health.
Cheers.
I had an unfortunate conversation with the mother of a Trump voter. She told me she believed her son was racist and proceeded to tell me how he had explained to her that if an African American came to the door to take his daughter on a date, he would run him off. Very alarming.
I'm greatly concerned by the shooters' ages. I used to assume it was mostly older people who clung to racist, xenophobic beliefs, but the shooters were 21 and 24, respectively. Connor Betts motivation is still not clear, but the fact remains that the majority of his victims were African American. The other shooter left no doubt about his motivations. It would seem that these hateful beliefs are not remnants of a bygone era and will be with us for a long time to come.
2
As a registered gun owner, obviously I support the 2nd Amendment. That said, I also support background checks and wouldn't be against banning high capacity magazines and add-ons like bump stocks. We have some of the toughest gun laws around in California, obviously hasn't helped us much as San Bernardino and Gilroy have shown. But let's be real here. Is it about the gun ? Or the nut firing it. 'Social media' has given these losers a place to congregate. To have their sick beliefs aired. I'm sure that there are many out there who consider this El Paso murderer a hero. When he dies, he'll be a martyr to many who share his sickness. So what to do. Totally ban guns, because that's the only way this works, and punish the 99.99999% of gun owners who are responsible ? Censor 'social media' ? Then you take the first step down the slippery slope toward a totalitarian state. Or do you really take a hard look at the state of mental health in this country, because that's where the problem really lies.
3
Not owning a gun is not ‘punishment’. Most Americans don’t own guns.
5
Politicians and the gun lobby keep blaming everything that happens in mass shootings to mental illness and that is an intellectually lazy argument. Every country in the world has people with mental illness but they don’t have the ability to go to the store and buy a semi-automatic military type weapon. Other countries also have comprehensive health care for all its citizens.
We who want sensible gun control don’t have a problem with sportsmen, hunters, or individuals owning a gun for home protection we have a problem with gun show loop holes, straw purchases and the lack of universal background checks. And of course selling weapons of mass destruction whose only purpose is to kill as many people in the shortest amount of time possible.
@sheikyerbouti yeah, I'm okay with "punishing" other gun owners.
If you were truly concerned about totalitarianism, you'd be taking a hard look at the fascist in the white house.
1
Our democracy, permitting its citizens to bear arms against each other, went awry again!
1
I agree with many responders’ comments about not being surprised given the inability of our national leadership to enact any meaningful gun legislation and our current president’s propensity to foment disdain and hatred. But there is much complicity in these mass murders. One industry that’s rarely mentioned in the wake of such violent acts is the media. Media, on both the small and big screen, that sensationalizes violence in very graphic ways is complicit. Vast amounts of campaign money flows into the pockets of both political parties. Industry leaders and actors have never taken responsibility for these aggrandizing displays of ever increasing violence yet reap handsomely from its distribution. Another area of media that shares equal, if not more, culpability for the proliferation of violence is the gaming industry. I strongly urge everyone that is interested in joining the violence debate beyond commentary of “how awful”, “get rid of guns”, and “we/I pray for the families” need to read Col. Dave Grossman’s book, “Assassination Generation”; Video Games, Aggression, and the Psychology of Killing to more fully understand the complexity of these disturbing trends and frequency of acts of mass murder. Col. Grossman’s work is thoughtful, science-, and fact-based.
I’m not certain either of these perpetrators frequented movies of violence or were heavy users of violent gaming. What is clear, however, is that mass murders will continue unless all affect ours are addressed.
3
What part of "a well regulated militia" doesn't the NRA get? do they really think we believe the El Paso and Dayton shooters were "well regulated", let alone a militia? Read the whole Second Amendment!
2
We thrash around....trying to rationalize the violence and propose solutions. We accuse everyone else of being the problem....We never, ever look at ourselves and admit that WE are the problem.
We use the internet....we profit from the internet, the internet makes us feel good. The internet expands our minds, it opens new worlds to us.
The reality is ... we're addicted to the internet. We ignore people in real life, they become simple background to the exciting stuff swirling around on our Iphones as we blithly step off the curb into traffic, without a thought towards our own safety. We busily text our friends when we're in an intimate restaurant on date-night ignoring the one across the candle lit table. We LUVS us some internet.
But with the highs come the lows. And they become extremely low. And the Journalism(yellow pressism) makes lots of money by repeating endlessly...over, and over, and over the messages that we respond to with no independent rational thought....we LUV being told what to think.
"racism", "immigration", "russians", "Trump", "white supremecy"......oh, how those words trigger the Pavlovian response.
In the real world,,,,US is at an all time low in gun violence, a low in racism, a low in immigration, the USA is NOT the center of the universe, Mexico is 10x more violent.
TAX THE INTERNET like a drug..........problem solved.
If gunmen only targeted conservatives and members of the NRA they would change laws overnight.
2
The lack of hope expressed means to me that the NRA has won. Let's face it, if Sandy Hook changed nothing, either accept it and do your vigils or start organizing and fight! The NRA did and look at where they are now. Or are they better representatives of who you are as a people? After all, the second amendment meant something way back... Transposed to today, in the way that it was meant - grenades and nuclear weapons might be fair game...
1
Reganomics/Trickle-down is the cause;
Guns are the means
NRA is the muscle
Trump is the flame thrower.
1
I just looked at the video of the Trump rally in which, when Trump hate-mongered about the "invasion" and asked what do you do about it, someone in the crowd shouted "shoot them!"
I had read that Trump joked about it, but did not realize, until I saw the video, that his crowd of (is deplorable really the wrong word?) supporters cheered and laughed at the idea of shooting refugees.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2019/may/09/trump-laughs-after-audience-member-suggests-shooting-migrants-video
(PS look at the reaction of the little girl in a Black family that came to see a talk by the President of the United States --no doubt placed in Trump's frame to make it look on TV like he had a diverse crowd)
1
I hope that Americans are not numb to these atrocities. I know I am not numb to them. Strong action is necessary, here. Whining and pleading don't work. Each of us has to make it clear to our representatives, who are up for reelection, that we won't vote for them unless they take immediate, drastic steps, including requiring registration/licenses for every current and prospective gun owner, to stop these massacres. There are obviously no "good guys with guns." WE have to also warn Congress not to take money from the gun lobby, stop supporting this illegitimate, unqualified, criminal "president," and to warn tRump to shut his racist, xenophobic mouth, as he waits for the end of his term in office.
2
Simply the hate that Trump and his supporters have spawned .
2
The combination of an explicitly racist President using hatred to energize his base and the continuing protection & support of the terrorist organization masquerading as a gun enthusiast protection organization better known as the NRA has become lethal. We saw it yesterday and see it regularly. When will the American people say enough?
The NYTimes should re-run the article from last year showing the requirements for gun ownership & possession in a selection of different countries to remind Americans what adults do to control a societal risk more dangerous than driving - but that is less regulated.
1
Trump mentioned "mental health issues" yesterday regarding these shootings. The real "mental health issues" reside in the WH and the GOP.
3
A bewildered nation? How can it be bewildered? What can you expect when the country has a president who constantly pushes racism and hatred and violence in his speeches and tweets? What can you expect when he has given haters, racists, and the violent aid and comfort? What can you expect when he has brought the evil underbelly of this country into the mainstream? His lasting gift to the nation and the world: he has unleashed the dogs of racism, hatred, division, and violence, and it is going to be nigh on to impossible to cage them again.
1
Will these “stronger background checks” Trump proposes include checks on sites such as 8chan or other evidence of extremist ideology? Not everyone is a crazy nut — until they become a crazy nut and take people out with an assault rifle as their first overt act of violence.
How was the El Paso killer able to walk into Walmart with an assault rifle? Did anyone notice anything unusual in this man's behavior? Were there any telltale signs that might have prevented this killer's carnage. Just wondering.
I suspect he was seen with his gun...but, what does one do at that point?
Stun? Hardly.
A president uses vile words to encourage, inspire, support, and praise acts of violence.
A Senate twiddles its Republican thumbs while its president spews hatred.
The NRA continues to buy congressmen.
What's to stun?
2
Every time we have another gun attack the same points are always discussed. Gun control, mental illness, racism, etc. All we do is seem to talk but get no farther along in the solutions to end gun violence. Both political parties need to get together for a serious discussion on what needs to be done. We cannot blame one party over the other for this madness. It seems they are all talk and no action. Something must be done and stop the partisan politics. Innocent lives are waiting in the balance.
11
@KMW
What is YOUR idea?
1
@KMW
Sorry, but yes we can blame one party— and that would be the Republican Party, who shuts down ANYTHING resembling a law or proposal on gun control.
7
We need to take our Constitution back. To which "well regulated militia" did the shooters belong?
5
According to the US Department of Defence 5337 soldiers have died in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars - KIA. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention claim in 2017 alone there were 39,773 gun related deaths. As a person from a regular strong ally of the US, Australia, it is hard to look at these figures and not conclude that the US is at war with itself.
Australia fixed its gun massacre problem. From 1970 to 1996 there were 13 gun massacres. After the Port Arthur massacre on 28-29th of April 1996 where 35 people were killed our new Prime Minster - John Howard - passed the National Firearms Agreement within months.
Australia has had no public massacres since - none!
New Zealand lost 15 lives to a professed white supremacist on 15th March 2019. By May they had passed a law banning semi-automatic fire arms.
How many more children and innocent people must die when simple law changes could save so many lives? How many more must weep at the loss of a loved one, collateral damage in a political and ideological internal war?
If the US senate doesn't pass the less than adequate bill before it that simply seeks background checks I guess the rest of us overseas will just have to sadly watch as you continue to kill and maim yourselves unnecessarily.
My deepest condolences to all your victims of gun violence.
4
Stunned? No. Saddened? Again, yes.
And the solution is not to wait on Moscow Mitch to someday allow a senate vote on a watered down scrap of anti-gun violence legislation full of loop holes.
The answer is to vote GOP candidates out. All the way down the ballot. NRA enablers like Sen. Corey Gardner (R CO), who, as of two years ago, had accepted $3,879,064 from the NRA (nytimes 2017/10/04). In fact at this point I wouldn't support a GOP candidate for substitute assistant dog catcher.
4
Let us lay this right at the feet of Donald J. Trump.
He has been beating this very drum for a long time.
4
Trump and his Republican enablers in Congress have blood on their hands in both attacks. Even an ultra-conservative relative of mine in Iowa thinks it's crazy to allow the sale of assault rifles. And what's the big deal about nationwide gun registration laws, which the vast majority of Americans support? Trump and congressional Republicans are gutless wonders who won't stand up to the NRA. They routinely put power and party over what's best for the country, and should be voted out of office in 2020. It's time to take back the country from the right-wing extremists!
2
Flags should fly permanently at half staff. Then there's no need to make the token proclamation and it will more accurately reflect the senseless death due to gun violence that occurs every day. The added bonus is that it would reflect the death of our Democracy.
3
What's stunning is not the massacres, but that the headline says that people are stunned. How could you be stunned by another massacre? The only thing that would be stunning would be if our country started to value human lives over murderous weapons. Most of the interviewees in the article sound more resigned than stunned. This is normal routine.
3
All three mass shootings last week clearly disprove the "good guy with a gun" theory. In Gilroy and Dayton, the police were able to engage and neutralize the gunman in ONE MINUTE OR LESS. Yet, despite numerous "good guys with guns" on the scene immediately, 12 people still died and dozens wounded. So, NRA and supporters of this argument, how is the exactly supposed to work?
Also, please justify the necessity of any civilian owning a 100 round magazine.
3
Bewildered nation? This has been going on now for quite a while and has been increasing because of the internet, Trump and the NRA inciting its members to "preserve freedom, etc" Add all the open carry laws and easy access for anyone and you have the recipe for mayhem. We are a sick country.
1
Maybe the NYT should start publishing photos of the victims. Maybe if people could see the horror -people who even after 6 year olds were blown to pieces in their school chose unlimited gun rights - they might be moved to demand the government do its job. That is to "insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty..."
Instead, the pain and grief of scores of thousands of Americans - orphans, parents, spouses, friends - of victims killed by guns every year is ignored. It's diabolical. Vote the Republicans out.
2
Leaders of Every nation of the world, should call Mr Trump and warm him, if you do not stop gun shootings, we are going to recall all our citizens, British German French Dutch Swiss Australian Kiwi Russian Latvian and so on. They have got to shame Trump first and then the entire Congress. Only then stubborn America will banish epidemic gun shootings from its nation’s dignity. Shame Trump.
3
The shocking thing is that people with virtually no background checks can buy a rifle that can shoot so many people in less than a minute! why are these guns available to the public & for what reason? Insanity.
3
I've read a few of the comments below just to confirm my view that most Americans are NOT "bewildered" by gun violence. They're mad, grieving, frightened and furious at the NRA and our impotent gov't.
3
My heart goes out to those who have suffered this violence... and, the Nation need not be "bewildered" as the article's title names... There is no mystery here, ...we have a president that provokes violence, a government that glad-hands the NRA, and a nation that has lost it's moral conscience.
46
“A Bewildered Nation”?!?!?!? Why would this be bewildering. We have 300 million guns in America and have seen 251 mass shootings in the US in the last 216 days.
2
@Barry
kudos... what is the surprise here?
1
Sorry guys... no more tears here.
We had Sandy Hook. What can be more terrible than Sandy Hook? Not to belittle any of the tragedies following it but come on... a normal, civilized country would have sprang into action immediately after this!
Not in America. Nope. Here, the people elected Donald Trump who vomits his hate daily on Twitter, and Congress did jack squat to stem the onslaught.
Trump and the GOP have blood on their hands. Years of racial baiting, hate mongering and gun laws neglect drove us where we are at.
But ultimately, in a democracy, the responsible part is the people. Elections have consequences.
So please spare me the drama on TV. I empathise with the victims and family but I have zero empathy for the rest of us. We did not rise to the occasion. So, please don't put yet another photo op. Get finally angry and force pols to take action!
I am not holding my breath.
2
Read "The Republican Brain" by Chris Mooney. Apparently, the GOP/Right personality type will not be moved by any logical argument the Left wishes to make about guns. Apparently also, the GOP/Right operates from a much more primitive emotionally driven part of the brain.
So, to get the GOP/Right to change, you've got to present pure emotion. To get it right, test your message with brain scans, galvanic skin response and the like.
1
Mass shootings in the US are like a weather report for the week; Rain (bullets) every day.
4
This is truly terrible and shocking.
Did you know that early 40 people were shot over the weekend in Chicago, just one weekend. You would never know this from the New York Times.
This is the headline from the Chicago Tribune: "Nearly 40 shot over three days in Chicago, including young mother, 4-year-old girl, teen on CTA bus"
The article continues: "A young mother. A 4-year-old girl. A 15-year-old boy riding the bus home from school.
They are among the nearly 40 people shot in Chicago over just three days this week, days when the temperature reached into the 80s and drew more people into the streets. In fact, this level of violence on weekdays is usually not seen until the middle of summer, according to data kept by the Tribune.
On the first warm day Monday, at least one person was killed and nine others were wounded, according to Chicago police. On Tuesday through early Wednesday, 12 people were hit by gunfire over 12 hours, including a 4-year-old girl shot in the shoulder as she sat on a porch on the South Side with her parents. There were also two double-shootings."
3
Bewildered? No I’m not.
Disgusted? Yes I am.
4
All forgotten in 2020. Keep on with the violence culture. Men are men. Well, American men are American men.
1
This is all on GOP & Trump. NRA was an instrument but this has been fanned by GOP for political gain for years and now we all will pay for it,
I was in England and Scotland last week; I didn't see cops during my 400 mile drive through the country until I got to Edinburg. Very safe place.. Two major diff:
1. Health Care (people can get help for their mental problems)
2. No Guns
1
There are laws already on the books that were violated by the terrorists who carried out these horrific murders. Yes, we need more gun control but if we really want to stop what will be an increasing amount of murders in the months to come we need to remove from office the demagogue in the White House as soon as possible.
We have a President who is fanning the flames of white nationalism and white supremacy for his own evil ways. As a Jewish American I hold him responsible for the murders at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh. Anti-semitism has increased 57% since he became President.
Mosques have been torched and bombed across our country.
Journalists who have criticized Trump have had their lives and the lives of their families threatened, including some who work for the Times. At his rallies he points to where journalists are sitting and calls them the enemies of the American people.
When we have a President who emboldens and embraces those who have hatred in their hearts for immigrants, Jews, Muslims, and gays should we really be surprised at these terrible mass killings? He has empowered all the bigots to act out their hate.
There is one thing I know for certain and that is if Trump is
re-elected what took place this weekend will be repeated countless times across our country.
We must save our nation from heading into the abyss and the only way to do that is to turn out in record numbers in 2020 and remove the stain that is destroying our nation.
2
With their 29 killings this past week, individual Americans still have a long way to go to match the U.S. government’s rampages—including 620,000 American deaths in the Civil War, 53,000 in WWI, 418,000 in WWII, 54,000 in Korea, and 58,000 in Vietnam. Just counting the 2,400 in Iraq and 1,800 in Afghanistan, the government still wins the human slaughter competition hands down.
@Robert Griffin
You are saying that USA is started WWI and WWII.
Texas and Ohio are both incredibly gun-friendly states, and they both support "open carry." So where were all the "good guys with guns?" Oh, right, running for their lives with all the other folks. Because when you're facing a lunatic armed with an AK47 or AR15 and a 30-round mag, that's what you do.
2
"Stun the country"? Really? Are we shocked and amazed? What could possibly have caused this?
Stop with the surprise and awe!
This has been and will continue to be the norm, America the shooting gallery, the gun laden crucible of hate and crazy. This isn't "knife violence". This isn't a spate of poisonings. This isn't a sarin gas attack. This isn't an airplane driven into skyscrapers.
This is GUN VIOLENCE unleashed by Trump, the Republicans and the NRA and gun lobby.
The culture they foster of shooting to solve all problems. Manhood out of the barrel of an AK47, AR15 and the myriad of assault weapons flooding out country.
#NRA no lives matter.
3
So Trump decided to stay at his golf course crashing wedding parties and Moscow Mitch chose last weekend to fracture his shoulder.
More general outrage but what next is anyone's guess. Could this time really be different?
The Republicans still have the "thoughts and prayers" on their lips while their specialty is to deny people, especially women, for reasonable healthcare. Letting people killed has little concern to them so long as the NRA approves.
Such is the state of this country now
1
if everyone had a six-shooter (including little kids) then they could all protect themselves and no one would get hurt (killed). Right?
Or do you want to be like Japan where no one has a weapon--
and mass killings with assault rifles don't exist.
2
The sad part is I think most of us were not stunned. My first thought was "wow, I'm surprised we've gone this long since the last one". Honestly, I can't remember the last time I had a very strong, emotional reaction to a mass shooting...perhaps Pulse? Reality is this is the "American Reality". I will never understand the people who sit and defend the legalization of this type of weaponry just as much as I will never understand how I can read that 20 people were murdered in a Walmart without having much of a reaction. But this is where we are now, and I fear it won't change anytime soon.
3
"Hate has no place in our country" when he is the chief hate monger? His words were in the manifesto. Thoughts and prayers do nothing and so will Congress. The NRA will tell us that now, when everyone is upset, is not the time to do anything and Trump will listen. He will walk back his comments about gun control just like he did before. I know many Canadians who fly to Mexico every winter and take inconvenient flights to get there in order to avoid landing in the US because it is so dangerous. The State Department needs to put out a warning to travelers that the US is a dangerous place to visit.
1
Gun law. We have one. At least a good start. It's the 2nd Amendment. It's a militia law. Not a guarantee that anyone has the right to own any kind of gun. Want a gun? You'll have to join a regulated militia. The militia will. have responsibilities such as carrying sufficient insurance. Insurance companies will be responsible for background checks......not the taxpayers.
Maybe a discussion of what the 2nd Amendment really says would be where we should begin.
2
@MikeT . I'd prefer a rewrite on the second amendment. Let's make a new constitutional amendment to state in very explicit terms exactly the legal status of guns.
2
America has had two major problems since the very beginning of its existence: racism and violence. The most notable racist past was the enslavement of blacks forcibly brought to these shores. We continue to live with the consequences. Chinese, Japanese, generally Asians, Mexicans and Latinos, and of course even white or Caucasian Muslims are contemporary racist targets. Then America has had a major problem with violence since the very beginning. America's "Wild West" past is world-famous with its gun-toting "outlaws". All the world except Americans appears to recognize America's violence: No other country has more guns per capita than America does. Outsiders who come here as immigrants are shocked that Americans may say in a a heated debate: "I will kill you!" It is mostly meant as hyperbole. But it expresses America's violence. There were and are now times when people will kill others. It is shocking how easy it is to obtain guns: your own or your neighbor's closet. Or in normal shopping malls. All these are signs that America really has never shed its past as a developing country.
1
It is said there are 15 million assault style weapons in this country. We need to get rid of these things. I suggest a buy-back program, where they would then be melted down, and severe penalties if they are kept or attempted to be sold.
Suppose each owner gets $1000 for each weapon turned in - no questions asked. OK, so that's $15 billion. Seems like a lot; but it's a mere 2 percent of our military budget, and 0.4% of our total Federal budget.
And if they are not turned in but found instead? Then the owner gets a year in jail, probably about the same as a black kid gets for possession of a couple of ounces of marijuana.
6
It is not a “bewildered nation” that is facing yet again more bloody gun violence but a craven one. When will we get the guts to keep weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of ordinary people?
1
Bewildered? Who is bewildered? I'm not. I'm not shocked, either. If the nation could not rally for sensible gun laws after twenty little children were murdered in their classrooms, I despair that any particular horrifying event will move our "leaders" to act like leaders.
2
You don't even, really, look much past the headlines anymore. How many? Oh, that's not so bad, really. Assault rifle? Figured. The gunman? Usually, I don't get that far. Don't care. No one except nutballs would. Heaven help anyone who bothers reading a manifesto.
This is life in America. Unless the death toll goes past 20 or it's particularly heinous, like when it's school children in their classrooms, all these shootings have become so much background noise. You look around during a baseball game or a concert and you wonder, if ever so briefly, how it might go down tonight, knowing that it probably won't, but still wondering.
You submit to metal detectors at entrances to public events so many times that you forget how crazy this really is, that we live like this because the right to own machinery designed to kill people is enshrined right up there with freedom of speech and freedom to worship and freedom to not be enslaved. But we are enslaved, now, thanks to this Constitution that never would have been written the way that it is if the authors could only see what has transpired. We're slaves to fear and we don't much protest.
This is a public health issue, declare liberals who've given up and delude themselves into believing that we can have more guns than people in this nation, where gun owners are in the minority, and have peace while schools that once held atom bomb exercises hold active shooter drills. No.
Repeal the Second Amendment.
4
Increasing security on public and privately-owned commercial spaces is something can be done immediately to counter the possibility of mass shootings. If masses of people can be put through a metal detector and have their personal property x-rayed as happens at major sporting events or music concerts, then it can be certainly done at a large stores, shopping centers or similar places. Owners of such properties should now consider themselves incentivized to seriously consider such measures. If the American public are really so shaken by the frequency of mass killings, they would welcome it.
Even beyond our horrific White Nationalism crisis, what America really has at its core is a “Gun Crisis”. We’ve flooded the country with over three hundred million guns, sixty million of them rapid fire, high capacity assault rifles. It doesn’t require another study, nor is it all a mystery. A certain percentage of our three-hundred million are anti-social and violent, just as with any population of humans. Our laws allow most of them unrestricted access to cheap and powerful, mass-killing weapons. We sell them in stores, basements, out of trunks and in shopping malls everywhere. We are fools.
1
Each time some deranged person kills a bunch of white suburban school kids or shoots up a store where suburbanites shop, or festivals attended primarily by whites, there’s cries of outrage. The cable news channels go 24x7 on the killings for days, newspapers write editorials calling for more gun control and pouring shame on the NRA, the president (Obama, Trump) may visit the community to console the victims.
But what about the far greater number of gun killings of and by inner-city young men? The homicide rate for Black Americans in all 50 states is, on average, eight times higher than that of Whites (CDC, 2017). Last weekend in Chicago at least five people were killed and 42 wounded. And that’s just Chicago and just one weekend.
These inner-city killings may be covered briefly in local news outlets, but where’s the nationwide outrage? Why do we silently accept these killings? Why do we not heap shame on the behavior of these young men?
In today’s America, where disparate impact is seen as conclusive evidence of racism, doesn’t this lack of attention to America’s real gun problem have more than a racist whiff?
3
There are many root causes to this happening and it has nothing to do with guns. Racism, corruption, police brutality and mental illness are just some of them.
There is no way I would vote for any candidate who advocates banning guns and only arming law enforcement.
All talk from both sides. Tragic impotence. This is life in USA for now on. NOTHING done after Sandy Hook. Angry, worried. Really worried. Not stunned at all. It's like living in Afghanistan. If our elected officials (Senate, what a hoot), Supreme Court (LOL) won't do anything, what's left .... New Zealand acted immediately. We're really messed up! Greed (our brand of capitalism) is literally killing us. Worst part (is that possible?), people are frustrated but seem to be putting up with it.
Waiting, guessing for the next one. We are not well. More guns than people. Look at the NYT graph comparing countries. Thanks.
I am not numb to these shootings. Everything stings me. They also happen in nightclubs, at Christmas parties, in grocery stores, everywhere people go.
Nothing bewildering about this. Gun ownership is more important than people's lives.
2
I am not sure Americans are 'stunned.' If we were stunned, we would have voted every politician who supports giving WMD's freely to citizens out of office. Americans have accepted this violence as a way of life. There is something wrong when law enforcement has less lethal weapons than an ordinary citizen.
Protecting our rights to own a gun is more important than protecting our right to live without fear.
The pro-lifers, the Wall street bums, and the powerful corporate lobbyists who control our country do not care.
The rest of us live with the pain and constant trauma inflicted on us by these tragedies.
Every parent in America knows that when they send their child out to school or a mall or a theater or a place of worship, they may not return because of WMD's.
Where is the preemptive action to get rid of these WMD'S?
1
So long as the Republican Party is in the pocket of the gun industry there will be no change. The moral backbone of this party was bought out after G.H.Bush. Everything fueling Republican's obstruction to reduce the threats of mass shootings from the Evangelicals, the gun lobbyists, to as we know Putin's operatives in the US have created the Cult of the Gun.
You have Evangelicals who worship guns along side Jesus now (see the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary in Pennsylvania). The common sense of the Republican Party of old is gone, we now have fanatics that I would rank up next to the Taliban.
This will only get worse as gun owners age and die, what happens to their collections of weapons? They just keep adding to the millions of weapons in the hands of people who shouldn't have them. This nation will eat itself, lead by the fanatics that have taken over.
1
When you courageously address gun violence in the media that teaches people to love guns, then the killings will subside.
1
And here he is, the fake president, tweeting an hour ago about how it’s the media’s fault. No one can get through to him that this is HIS fault. He will never admit any wrongdoing.
1
There seems to be a large and still growing number of violent Millennial sons, even as there is an emerging population of younger violent Gen Z sons.
I would like to think something will change from such repeated violent senselessness. However, with an Ohio GOP representative laying blame on Obama—and drag queens, no less—I fear nothing will change as long as the GOP doesn't care. After all, they don't think for themselves, just following the party manifesto like the bots they are, no matter the amount of blood on their hands due to inaction, callousness, let alone heartlessness.
If the killing of elementary school children didn't move them, nothing will. It is time for them to go, to be voted out of office far and wide across the land. This shall not stand. Not any longer.
Bewildered? Not so much. Angry? Frustrated? Saddened, definitely.
We are not "Bewildered," NY Times. We are neither "Stunned" nor "Shaken." It's the rest of the world that is bewildered that we have not done a thing - not one thing - to address gun violence in this country. Let's face it, gun violence has become so commonplace that it took back-to-back massacres to keep the headlines goig for three days. Don't worry. By Wednesday these massacres will be relegated to page 17. We'll have forgotten. Once again.
2
Wake up! Stop useless tweets and thoughts. Fight for your rights to raise your children safely. You can do it.
Love
2
There were two mass shootings last weekend as well.
The headline states we are a "bewildered nation". No- we are a WEARY nation-because many of us know exactly what is going on and feel helpless. Weary of Trump and his hateful rhetoric which incites violence. Weary of the hateful doctrine of white nationalism. Weary of the lack of any action by congress to pass sensible gun control legislation. Weary of "thought and prayers" that mean absolutely nothing. Weary and fed up.
71
Imagine if MLK Jr had just given up and fled when the going got tough. But no, he stayed to make a difference, because he knew the soul of this country was worth fighting for. Defeatist rhetoric is what allows the gun lobby and NRA supporting minority to continue to undermine the vast majority of Americans who support common sense gun safety measures.
1
The morning of the shooting (before the shooting), my 12 year old daughter woke up and told me that she had a bad dream. That was about a person with a gun shooting people dead. The news over the last 2 days have her worried even more...
1
These recent shootings are the worst attack on humanity. I am sure that none involved in these events woke up that morning ever thinking they would be part of these shootings. We must all be prepared for the unexpected but go ahead with our day to day living. We cannot allow these killers to stop us from living our lives to the fullest but be on the lookout for suspicious goings on. We cannot let the evil doers win or we are the ones to blame. We are much braver than they are and we need to end this violence.
1
Those who keep bringing up mental health issues as being the root cause of the gun violence endemic to this country do so by completely disregarding reality. The incidence of mental issues in this country is not an outlier when compared with comparable industrialized nations. What is an outlier is the ridiculous number of guns out there. The very fact that no ‘good’ people with guns have been able to stop the spate of attacks points to the futility of owning a gun for self-defense. Where was the well-regulated militia in gun-loving Texas and Ohio when these tragedies occurred?
3
It was decades after the Second Amendment before there was a repeating revolver, and later still for a repeating rifle. I don't think the writers of the Second ever imagined it being used to justify automatic weapons that can mow down a crowd in seconds.
1
I recently read a comment from a British reporter, who wrote quite simply that in America, the people (note: the people, not the NRA or the GOP) valued their guns more than their children. GOP, please stop telling women what to do with their health decisions and their bodies, and get these guns off the streets and out of homes. Thanks, Times, for the reprint the other day of the article that pointed out some vital statistics: We have no higher rates of mental illness than any other industrial country. We have no fewer police officers on hand. We simply have more guns. Way way more guns.
All I have to say is: why? I have so many questions that I am probably too young to have answers to. Why shoot your sister? What was going through their heads? Why isn't my generation seeing gun control as a major issue ALONG with climate change? I had so many questions while reading this article, but what truly got my stuck was a certain situation from a couple of years ago.
A few years back, when I was nearing the end of my 8th grade year, a student at my town's high school made a threatening call to the school. Of course, the news spread quickly from the high school to the middle school, but not to me. I had no clue why my pre-Algebra teacher was acting so worried, we were being good for once, which was a rare anomaly. I turned to my best friend at the time and asked her what was going on with our teacher, she then told me her freshman boyfriend told her "someone called the high school and threatened to blow up the schools." My heart dropped. My two sisters were in two separate buildings at the opposite end of the campus from where I was. Being the soft-hearted person I am, I bawled my eyes out out of worry for my siblings. It took a while for me to calm down, but I still hurt. What would I do if I came home and one of them wasn't there? Luckily for us, there was no real bomb. But this shooting situation somehow reminded me of that, whether it was the sibling being involved or something else.
Why do we insist on naming the gunmen? They do not deserve recognition for the heinous things they've done and said. This is like vindication for them, time on the world stage, and even though one of them is not alive to see it, I'm still disgusted by the fact that they were named. Yes, go talk to family and friends to try and ascertain a motive, but for God's sake don't name them. The only thing these men deserve is prison for the rest of their life. Not people around the world knowing their name. And do you know what? Any other person thinking about committing a shooting will look at the amount of press these men are getting and it will only be seen as a plus. Don't name the gunmen. Just don't.
As it is, the majority argument is that Gun owners claim to have their second ammendment rights to guns while everyone else is claiming their rights to be free and unharmed. This is not good.
It's gun rights versus the right to life.
The correct venue to debate this is the People's House, the Congress. But the political leaders are beholden to the cameras for power and that's what results in the continuing paralysis.
So guns kill and people want to stop it. Seems logical.
My solution is to mandate proper gun use training and respect training as a prerequisite to gun ownership. Then the citizens can call themselves a Militia.
Universal mental health coverage is a national security priority. If the GOP wants mental health coverage, we can expand Medicare coverage today, this very hour if we wanted to, to all seeking mental health services without health insurance coverage. We need to either fund mental health today, or admit this is just another whataboutist talking point. President Trump could do it today, but I am not holding my breath.
``Mr. Trump, who spent the weekend at his estate in Bedminster, N.J., thanked law enforcement officials in both cities on Sunday, declaring that “hate has no place in our country, and we are going to take care of it.” He said that “a lot of things are in the works.”''
What a joke. The best thing Trump could do to end the hate is to resign. The man is full of hatred and racism, and incapable of change.
5
WORDS MATTER.. THEY PARTICULARLY MATTER WHEN IT COME FROM THE POTUS.
Trump has incited violence. It is that simple. even now he is linking immigration to gun law.
Vote him out along with Moscow Mitch.
The people need to speak loud and clear.
1
I am so tired of platitudes. Why does this news "stun the country"? We shouldn't be remotely surprised. The easy availability of automatic weapons is to blame. Sometimes those weapons turn what might have been a momentary impulse into a permanent tragedy. This weekend, they made killing on an industrial scale far too easy.
It 's time to vote every Republican out of office, starting with McConnell.
2
Roughly 250 republican members of the US House and Senate, plus one 40-percent republican president, stand in the way of stricter gun laws, against the wishes of tens of millions Americans. Think about that for a minute.
1
Our president encouraged this violence. When are Democrats going confront the moral corruption of the current administration and lead. The current chatter about wonky policy issues or politically correct cultural discourses skirt the main issues that we as voters are passionate about. Our democracy as well as world peace are being threatened. Is there a Democratic voice who can take on this administration?
This headline is wrong. The nation isn't shaken and bewildered at all. The nation shrugs and then goes back to its TV shows and phones.
Let's not forget that the mass murder with an assault weapon of a classroom full of toddlers wasn't enough to get Americans to act. You think El Paso and Dayton will?
America has decided to accept these frequent mass murders, in the same way that we accept traffic deaths. Everyone just hopes it will be someone else's children who get shot. Meanwhile, it's all just TV entertainment for everyone except the devastated victims and families. No one is stunned. No one is bewildered.
2
@EB Not quite. The Republicans shrug and go back to their donors and fundraisers. They have decided to accept these frequent mass murders, and yes, they expect it will happen to everyone else but them. Americans aren't stunned and bewildered, just resigned to the fact that those who hold power are happy with this status quo.
Right wing extremists and left wing extremists have one thing in common: they’ve been radicalized by the internet or because of their upbringing. Right wing politics dominate our government at this time. Is this why our government is so hesitant to call out the White Nationalists for the terrorists that they are? Trump says there is no place for hate in our country. That’s some weak sauce when placed next to the hate he encourages at his rallies. I predict that David Duke has already applauded Trump for the “cover” that statement gave the White Nationalists because Trump has already convinced them that he is one of them. He’s certainly convinced me. So, we turn to Congress for a fix and immediately turn away because McConnell and the Republican Senate have already told us that thoughts and prayers is all we can expect from them.
So we turn to our fellow citizens and ask “ won’t you help us find some sane common ground and help us push through common sense restrictions on gun ownership” and the answer is a resounding no. One can only conclude that this is the kind of society Republicans and their base want.
To Trump and Senate Majority Leader McConnell - here is your chance to finally do something you were elected to do......protect the American people. Pass gun control legislation. Listen to the majority of the American people. The rest of the world cannot fathom how America which boasts of being a great country, is actually the worst in terms of gun violence and needless killing of its innocent citizens. Do your job and do something right for once, and quit worrying about being re-elected.
I'm listening to trump now, proper tone, all grieving, but ultimately he is the cause of what has happened. All this empty prayer rhetoric is worthless since some of these spotters are his followers. Stunned? I'm not stunned, I'm angry!
1
Who is bewildered? Most of us want to tear our hair out!
Schumer and Pelosi along with the left had the opportunity to improve what is called “gun control”, they chose not to. Universal background checks based on a verified Federal 4473 was doable with a link to reciprocity. The liberal establishment could have easily required, grants as the carrot & stick, a mandatory requirement that people who are, by law, are a danger to themselves or others be entered into the federal “no gun” database. Schumer and Pelosi want control their way without any negotiations, perhaps now they will be willing to negotiate Universal Background checks and mandatory entry into the system of people with psychiatric issues for National Reciprocity!
@Jay The Democrats passed a universal background check bill back in February, which if passed would be the most significant gun control legislation in decades. Perhaps you should be turning your accusations of non-action to Trump and his administration, who have come out against the bill, and Moscow Mitch, who refuses to bring it up for a vote in the Senate. And, by the way, Trump signed a bill into law reversing an Obama administration regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase guns. You really should read up on issues before posting comments.
1
Bewildered? Really? There is a gun for every person in this country and you think people are surprised that we use them on each other.
1
I am sure both of these shooters believed themselves to be part of the well-regulated militia the Second Amendment refers to. When you tell confused, young men filled with hatred that they have a right to arm themselves and then you tell them the country's way of life is under dire threat by those "who don't think like us," you have made them glorified patriots in their own minds.
2
This whole issue is ABSURD!
Even in the days of the Wild West there was a creed and a saying that said “Don’t take your guns to town, boys ... “.
More than a hundred years later we have yet TWO more incidents of gun violence in town:
1. El Paso where mothers were outfitting their children with back-to-school clothes at a Walmart, and
2. A hot summer night were people were gathering to have some summer fun in Dayton’s entertainment district.
In the second incident, the shooter killed his 22-year-old SISTER.
Is this the land or OPPORTUNITY? The opportunity to DIE?
I ask: WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE???
Are these and all the other heinous mass shootings ... DEATHS and SERIOUS Woundings what you call FREEDOM?
Our Leader-in-Chief and all his Republican enablers, with Moscow Mitch at the helm, can join hands in taking responsibility for either the continuation of these sagas or for passing laws to end this. The NRA is in a mess right now. What better time to take action than NOW? Please, DO IT!
Trump says that hate has no place in our country. At last he has something that I can agree with. So let's send him packing in November before he can promote yet more of it.
As long as our coward politicians will be scared of NRA, the mass shooting and gun violence will continue, No other civilized nation has
such killings of innocent people. No other nation has any organization like NRA , tThe law enforcement organizations including FBI have to be involved.
1
I am so tired of this killings and following arguments.
I become so frustrated the systems inability to produce a solution.
The public are "stunned and shaken"? The general, national public? The 2 communities directly affected are likely stunned and shaken, but the majority of people elsewhere have clearly been largely desensitized to these monthly incidents of easily preventable carnage. If not, something would have been done by now. And because nothing will be done after this horrific weekend, the desensitization will only increase.
There's absolutely nothing to back up the reporter's claim of a "stunned and shaken" American public, nor was any evidence even given. Please stop making unfounded assertions and just stick to the facts.
One of those facts is that as we've grown to feel powerless over the past few decades to change gun laws because of NRA resistance, and their increasing influence with elected politicians, and that the way most people cope with feelings of powerlessness is to simple accept the situation. And if we've accepted the situation as unchangeable, then why bother being too terribly concerned about mass slaughter by AK-47?
4
Those that oppose mass murder need to be more sophisticated in analyzing the situation.
First, the things that make military assault rifles so deadly are not integral to the gun. The things that make any gun an instrument of mass murder are the ammunition and high-capacity magazines.
Bullets used in war are different than the bullets used for hunting. Bullets for hunting are designed to do minimal damage. They rely on precise hits to vital organs. Bullets for war are designed to do maximum damage. They tumble through the air, and then through the body, shredding flesh. A military style bullet that hits the leg, is far more likely to find the femoral artery than a bullet that goes straight though.
One of the shooters this weekend had a magazine with a hundred bullets. High capacity magazines reduce the possibility that someone could stop the shooter or escape while they load.
By the way, an automatic weapon is not the most efficient weapon for a mass shooting. They miss too much. Semi-automatic weapons that
Notice there are no "sport" reasons to use military ammunition (unless Dick Cheney is duck hunting at one of those places that lets ducks out of a box to be shot with machine guns), or high capacity magazines. You have time to reload at the gun range.
Second, the guns are already out there; more than one for ever person in the country, though they are not evenly distributed.
Make military ammunition and High Capacity magazines illegal.
5
You do get that the fact the military doesn’t really use full-auto makes it obvious that the usual specious claim that a Bushmaster isn’t an assault rifle because it doesn’t fire full-auto is completely bogus, right?
And the diff between military-grade ammo and what these shooters use is completely irrelevant in the situation.
It has become increasingly obvious that we need to amend the Constitution in several ways.
1. Clarify that donations and political expenditures are not protected "speech", thus neutering the dominance of corporations, big donors and groups like the NRA.
2. Eliminate or drastically modify the 2nd Amendment.
3. Pass the Equal Rights Amendment which guarantees females autonomy in reproductive decision-making.
We haven't been able to get done what needs to get done politically because Congress is owned by interests which do not care about or represent the needs of the citizenry. They are a captured body, and money governs all.
We are past the point of dreaming a new crew of politicians will be different. We need a major overhaul of the governing principles we operate under. Its the only way to get by the mess that Supreme Court has left us with some of its ill-considered decisions.
3
America has a Political Violence problem. It has become a cultural norm to reference "gun violence" as though that phrase was definitive. No question, terrorists prefer the best weapons they can readily obtain to violently advance their political agendas. But they can easily revert to other instruments of violence. Attempting to eliminate firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens, which is the perceived objective of most gun control initiatives, will be counter-productive. Given the reality created by our Bill of Rights, attempting to control political violence by criminalizing guns, will radicalize many otherwise peacable citizens. Our geopolitical adversaries, particularly Putin's Russia (as well as China) recognize the benefit of using this issue to broaden & intensify the political polarization that weakens the US. Russia in particular, exploits this conflict by manipulating citizens on both sides of this issue through violent covert operations in combination with its social media campaigns. Both gun control and gun rights advocates have made use of the "slippery slope" cliche to frame the urgency of their respective political positions. The sad truth is, we are well past the point of regaining traction. A violent collision among our various political & social hostilities is already in motion. None of us will benefit. History proves that a pacifist mind-set offers no protection during civil conflict. Very few of us will have the opportunity to escape the violence.
2
Bewildered? The word offends one’s conscience, my conscience, as a citizen of this republic. Are we so deluded? We have the power to stop this horrific violence. It won’t be easy. We need to elect legislators and leaders, at all levels of government and institutions, who are willing to stand up against xenophobia, racism, denial of climate change, and to take on the task of creating real security based on respect for justice, domestic tranquility, our general welfare, as well as balancing our common defense with our liberties.
1
The Second Amendment is an obsolete remnant of the 18th century and should be repealed. Semi-automatic rifles that chamber a small cartridge and feature large-capacity, removable magazines should be subject to mandatory buy-back. There is no need to try to legally define an assault-style rifle. Those three criteria would suffice.
These actions would greatly reduce the plague of mass shooting we now experience. However, there would need to be a complete replacement of the right-wing government now in charge.
2
A bewildered nation? It's shocking when things like this happen, but not surprising at all.
3
There is a confluence of reasons for the horrific mass attacks on citizens in this country who are simply going about their everyday lives. The recent tragedies should not be ripe for political gain. It is obvious that there are disaffected young men who have committed these crimes and no matter what or whom the political class likes to blame it goes beyond one simple thing or person. The effect of hours of social media with like minded individuals along with hours spent on violent video games have to be a consideration. It is certainly something that binds these young men together. That they feel marginalized is not surprising either. They as a group are often targets of pointed political commentary as being inherently worthless. The fact they often suffer from mental illness and there is the availability of these weapons of mass destruction is a toxic stew that leads to these overwhelming tragedies.
1
What do you mean by political gain? We shouldn’t be screaming for gun control? We shouldn’t be angry at politicians (Republicans) who refuse to consider gun control? We shouldn’t be angry at politicians (Republicans) who owe the NRA allegiance?
Shocking. Though isn't back-to-back just how statistics can work? I mean, there already are so many of these mass shootings. Right? A trend should be established now. How could it have been that hard to ignore? I believe what we have is known as a Poisson Process.
I don’t know why everyone is so shocked. The U.S. made its choice: interpret the 2nd Amendment broadly and arm its citizenry to the teeth. What did you think was going to happen?
3
As I think about it, I think a solution could be devised to reduce these mass shootings by only allowing the purchase of guns for the purpose of a) hunting or b) sport target shooting, with training and licensing being required for both purposes. An exception would be the purchase of old guns by collectors. By requiring training and licensing, prospective purchasers would be required to pass hunting classes or target shooting classes (at least 10 hours each), with the trainers being able to observe the mental health of their trainees before they sign off on the licenses. I may be wrong but I haven’t heard of any of these recent shooters being hunters, sport target shooters, or gun collectors. Instead, they’ve bought their weapons for the purpose of killing people.
Killing a lot of people quickly is the sole purpose of military style assault weapons like AK15. They aren’t allowed for hunting
now he wants to link gun control
to legislation on immigration?
apart from the fact that the majority
of perpetrators weren't immigrants:
were the pilgrim fathers legal immigrants?
how much longer will those who benefit at any price
manage to distract public attention away from the
REAL issues of absolute power and endless profits?
so many needless deaths and survivors suffering.
[instead of preparing to go to war abroad (yet again),
why not actually tend to your battle grounds at home?
saving lives matters.]
1
The perpetrators aren’t immigrants. Targets are immigrants
To the Editors, we are not bewildered. We are disgusted and angered that our government is hostage to the NRA and gun manufacturers. How many more will have to die violent deaths before we stop these massacres? Do our elected politicians have the courage to do what Australia or New Zealand did?
4
We live at the edge of a “blue” county in a community which has a dog park. Due to its close proximity many residents from the neighboring “red” county also bring their dogs to this park. Because the regulars are aware of this dynamic we rarely if ever discuss politics. We all come to the park to let our dogs run and socialize, nothing more nothing less. This dynamic changed yesterday morning when one of our “red” friends showed up with a T-shirt that read “Make sure to bring yours when you come for mine”. While variations of this message are common it was the timing of it that was startling coming the morning after 29 souls lost their lives. Would it have too much to ask to show compassion for these latest victims of gun violence for one day?
We are not anti-guns or anti-hunting but how many more people must die before politicians actually do something besides sending their “thoughts and prayers”.
1
So the tragedy of what happened in El Paso and Dayton "horrifies" a nation, but not the dozens that are shot every week in Chicago and elsewhere? It's all horrifying, but only politically expedient when some nut starts shooting randomly. Get the guns off the streets, but don't forget the forgotten...the people of Chicago and other inner cities where gunfire is a common days occurrence, and whom the media forgets.
Seriously, we are bewildered?
These mass shootings and gun violence in general have been occurring for decades.
It's been the 'new normal' for a long long time.
“It was just another one of those things,” he said."
Sad.
Meanwhile, President Circle Back is, , circling back, to his original position of blame the Dems, the immigrants, the press.
True, today he made sympathetic noises and promised action, but by Wednesday we will see how hollow and morally bankrupt the man is once again.
So, to summarize;
Saddened, angered, yes.
Surprised, bewildered, no.
3
This is the only headline that truly states the problem. *Men with guns.* Everywhere else the shooter is described in gender neutral terms. As usual. Had this been a woman it would have been the lead topic. Let's start talking about what as a society we can do with our boys to prevent them becoming angry men. Saying "use your words" when a fight breaks out in preschool is not cutting it.
Essentially the nation is leaderless which is apparent by the vacuum in the WH in confronting this most recent tragic mass killing. Moscow Mitch is vacationing and is not inclined to do anything. What we’re left with now is the precarious situation of an un-indicted criminal in the oval office scot-free to continue his campaign of wreaking havoc and chaos on the nation.
I believe it is time for all citizens of this great country to stand to the continuous manipulation by this president and his enablers. Lets forget about our political affiliation. Look how much damage his enable a few ones to cause on all of us. We can not talk with people that have different points of view because we feel our blood pressure go up. We are loosing decency and civility. Most of us recognize he is a con-man, why are we allowing him to play with us. Look at his Chinese tariffs, they do not have and make sense, eventually it will hurt all of us. He and his enablers are getting richer and manipulating all this. Yes China may need to be dealt with, but he has gas-lighted emotions against everybody in the world. Americans are becoming the haters of the world, sooner or later when we continue spitting on the air, it will splash on our faces. We will be alone, He has already ruined big part of the great nation that took hundreds of years and sacrifices of millions IMMIGRANTS to make this country great.
Since the Sandy Hook tragedy, ONE political party has prevented any progress from being made on gun control, mental health services, and federal programs to monitor white nationalism. Republican politicians have blood on their hands.
3
We need a Super Pac to offer to double the NRA's donation to our politicians. The media needs to stop airing Trump rallies and publicizing his tweets.
1
We have to bribe our politicians?
This is the sorry state of America when a mass shooting just a week ago in Gilroy is not included in the "back to back outbreak of gun violence".
3
"Back to Back Massacres Shake a Bewildered Nation"
Bewildered?
Like most people I'm a lot of things after the last couple of days but the last thing I am is "bewildered".
Donald Trump is inciting racism, hate, and violence, and racism hate and violence is happening. Sure, the racism existed before Trump was president, but he's obviously stoking the fears and hatred to a higher temperature, just as demagogues have done throughout history.
The NRA and others have the government frozen so nothing can be done about even the slightest reasonable gun regulations. Actually it's simpler to say in a way, Mitch McConnell alone is blocking a vote on background checks that the vast majority want.
"Bewildered" is buying into the nonsense talking points from Republicans that this violence is caused by video games or purely a mental health issue. People pushing these excuses need to explain how the same violent video games are played around the world yet only the US, among otherwise stable, first world nations, has such astronomical levels of gun violence.
No one is bewildered, everyone knows what's going on, it's just that many of them refuse to acknowledge it.
1
The very last sentence is striking: "... On Monday morning, he (Trump) used Twitter to call for Republicans and Democrats to work together to strengthen background checks for prospective gun buyers and pass new immigration laws.”
Pass new immigration laws? He's trying to associate mass shootings with immigration. These shooters were all Caucasian males, born & raised here.
2
But they were killing immigrants. If there were no Hispanics in El Paso, there would be no shooting.
Hate crimes are on the rise under President Trump. He is the instigator. I can't even listen to his speeches. We need a President who unites, not divides. 7,100 hate crimes in 2017. Will this ever end?
I'm in my 80's and when I grew up, and for many decades, there was not the 'culture of violence' that inhabits the USA today. To see what has been allowed to happen because of special interests (who earn $$$$$ from this) and their purchased politicians is appalling--and also connected!
I happened to work at the University of the Pacific, Stockton, CA just 3 blocks from the 1989 mass murders of 5 young children at Cleveland School--10 years before Columbine. The proliferation of mass killings has grown in proportion to the proliferation of weapons in the USA, at the same time the Senate sits on their hands and whistles, hoping the demand for gun control will go away (again). In the first 216 days of this year, there have been 251 mass shootings (4 or more shot each time) and 246 have died.
What kind of a civilization, what sort of people, stand by and allow preventable murders like this from happening on a daily basis and do -absolutely- -nothing- to stop it? What sort of people consider their own children to be 'collateral damage' in order to preserve corporate profits?
I read that the killer in Dayton was stopped in 30 seconds. He still killed 9 people. He shot 27 others. All this in less than a minutes.
Automatic weapons, semi-automatic weapons - call them anything you like, but weapons that can shoot that many bullets in that amount of time need to be banned and it needs to be a felony if you own one.
5
The NRA enforces the status quo regarding guns in America. Does this mean that the NRA wants us all to get used to the tragic scene where a well armed gun owner shoots dozens of innocent bystanders in the name of white nationalism? Isn’t that the status quo regarding guns in America?
1
I’m not stunned and shaken. I’m angry that this country cannot or will not enact sensible gun control and ban these guns that are made only to kill people. It’s not about God or mental health. It’s about guns which other countries don’t allow. Oh, and a president preaching hate.
2
Stunned and shaken, yes. Bewildered? Nope. The majority of Americans know what needs to be done to end the carnage. (See: New Zealand.)
But our sniveling ‘leaders’ are financially beholden to the gun lobby.
This headline is misleading and insulting to educated Americans.
Please.
With already a permissive gun culture if the racist faultlines are activated by the power obsessed political leaders like Trump with their relentless hate campaign it becomes a regular feature of daily life as the US is witnessing in recent times be it El Paso or Dayton or some other town.
1
I'm not bewildered, Trump is responsible for all theses deaths. Journalism seems bewildered for sure.
2
@NewsReaper - Yes.
Guns belong on American streets: steamrollered in front of public libraries, schools and places of worship.
For over a year NYC (or at least Greenwich Village) has been treated to a witty graffiti message suggesting we "Deport Trump" Two mass murders coming quick on the heels of yet another ill-advised and quickly failed staff appointment add additional proof to the knowledge that this abysmal, inexcusable president's DNA is riddled with dire inadequacies. It behoves the Democratic Party to find a way to convince his ill-advised supporters and enablers that the only thing he has accomplished in his 2+ years in office is a huge tax break for the 1%. That is the only message that can possibly impress his hordes of followers. They are far worse off now than they were when they elected him. And their lot in life has nothing to do with Mexicans.
To argue that Trump does not contribute to these mass shooting events you must ignore that every Trump speech or policy position is rooted in racism. His movement blames all of American’s problems on evil minorities, both foreign and domestic. Take these racist rants out of his speeches and what’s left is just bragging about how great Trump is.
Gun control regulation in my opinion, is similar to trade regulations. Many advocates of the 2nd amendment like to point out that states which have stricter gun regulation (ie. Illinois and specifically Chicago) suffer from similar levels of gun violence. The reason why in my opinion this is true, is not because banning guns does nothing but rather gun regulation, like trade regulation is only effective when there’s no easy back door in. Currently the situation now for people living in states with strict gun regulation is simply to drive to the nearest state with much more lax regulation (and those states usually aren’t far away either). It’s far too easy in to circumvent state gun regulation and the only way to fix it, is to either enact border regulations between states with strict gun laws and states without (which is unreasonable) or to enact federal gun regulation. The argument that there’s no correlation between guns and gun violence is almost certainly false, given the amount of research conclusions saying otherwise. It’s time we stop the senseless killing of Americans for going about their back to school shopping and enact FEDERAL gun regulation.
45
The only problem with your proposal is that there are currently over 100 million guns in circulation. Even if there was never another gun purchased in the US these guns in private ownership would suffice to satisfy any would be killer or mass murderer.
1
@Liem Nguyen
Chicago can get guns from nearby Indiana, for example.
2
@Liem Nguyen
1. True, there is a fairly large underground market.
2. I'm unaware of any way someone from out-of-state can buy a gun from a dealer. Unless they establish a residence there.
I wouldn't say we're "Bewildered" as a nation. I would say we're heartbroken.
I went to a Walmart yesterday. And, the moment I crossed the threshold, my heart skipped a beat. All I could think about was what to do in case a shooter entered the store. Where would I go? What would I do? How would I escape and would I live?
As I left the store, I told an employee at the entrance to stay safe. The expression on his face was one I will never forget and leaves me more heartbroken than I ever imagined. There were tears in both our eyes and our shared pain was unimaginable.
Must we, as a nation, tear our society down to ensure our safety and that of our children? Must we start all over again to accomplish what our ancestors envisioned for our venerable Republic? It's in our hands.
6
@Pamela L. - This comment made me cry. I feel for anyone who is risking their life to earn a living or provide necessities on a budget.
When corporations and their earnings are regarded by lawmakers as more important than public health and safety, this is what happens. It’s disgusting. And it doesn’t just apply to guns. Vote them out.
9
Political terrorism, international and domestic, is a direct result of economic terrorism.
When the fear, greed, envy, and class war that drive the economy are ratcheted up to a maximum, the consequences are racist violence and other individualistic manifestations of violence.
The only solution is an economy that serves the people, not the other way around.
7
@Lawrence Chanin: The US operates under denial that the public sector of a mixed economy exists to conduct socialism.
@Steve Bolger Pardon? Since you mention "mixed economy", check out the most prosperous, crime-free, poverty-free democracies in the world - the Scandinavian nations.
They come close to the ideal of government of the people by the people for the people.
Contrarily, war-based world-wide corporatist capitalism is clearly bad for people and unsustainable.
@Lawrence Chanin
You don't know yet what the motive was in the second shooting this weekend. Moreover, even in a fairer economic system there will always be relative "winners" and "losers", unless you are literally suggesting the seizing and 100% redistribution of all assets and resources on an ongoing basis? People will always have grievances (real or perceived, reasonable or unreasonable) and some of them will unfortunately take those grievances to a violent extreme. I'm not saying there aren't steps we can take to hopefully mitigate some of the violence, AND I believe economic inequality is certainly one of the root causes of conflict in the world, but it's an extreme oversimplification and a cop-out to point to fixing this one political issue as a panacea.
If gun reform didn’t happen when twisted young men began mowing down children in schools, it unlikely it will happen in response to these recent massacres. I recently had an acquaintance compare gun control to smoking. First they came for the ashtrays. Seemed convinced that any measurable gun control would lead to an outright violation of her blessed 2nd Amendment rights. I don’t think she’ll care if it’s racially motivated, or stoked by our president, sanctioned by God himself. Color me defeated.
1
It's come down to numbers, hadn't it? There is a limit ion deaths over time that even blood-red states will accept before they finally regain their sanity and put a lid on gun sales in one way or another. The only real question is "How many deaths will it take?".
1
@WillyD
There is no number high enough to sway the politicians who live in fear of and are owned by the NRA and gun lobbyists. That has been proven repeatedly and will be yet again next week or next month.
Why people vote for such cowards is beyond me.
Give us a little credit.
We’re not stunned.
We have a president who foments white supremacy and tells everyone that Democrats will take away their guns so vote for him.
We have a president with supporters who remain silent either in fear of his wrath or the possibility they might not get re-elected.
There is a substantial minority of Americans who like these attitudes.
And there are people with semi-automatic firearms with high capacity magazines and plenty of ammunition who are too weak to know right from wrong and act because their hatred combined with trump’s incitement makes them think it’s ok.
It just shows how horrible things are in other parts of the world that the United States is still the land of opportunity.
Yeah - it’s also the land of opportunity to be killed by racists and bigots.
I visited Hudson Yards on Saturday and was surprised at the apparent absence of security other than a car inspection on entering the parking garage. The Sunday news showed policemen armed with assault weapons providing a deterrent.
What a difference a day makes.
3
Moscow Mitch is blocking House legislation (bipartisan) calling for stronger background checks. Any reasonable check would have flagged the two shooters. He has this blood on his hands. He cares only about “winning” , not the country.
3
@Robert kennedy - I love the nickname. We just need to keep referring to him as Moscow Mitch. Perfect.
After military weapons are made illegal in civil society, we can use a percent or two from the Defense Budget to buy up all the guns already in society, and finally get a little peace from all the money that is otherwise wasted on a vast scale.
1
The only way things are going to change is if a president and the nation undertakes a ‘man on the moon’ mission to reduce gun ownership in the US.
There are no simple answers, just complicated, difficult and expensive ones.
Breaking the fantasy belief that owning an AR or AK is protecting America from tyranny is a tough but necessary starting point.
Are we still "Bewildered'? How is that possible? What planet have we been on to still remain bewildered? How many times do we need to go through this before we finally understand and accept the reality that Guns are Dangerous! Guns need to be outlawed, but the White House keeps spewing forth hate, Congress does too little, and most strange of all, average citizens are somehow expected to recognize the multi-facetted personality aspects of a prospective shooter. They report...'He was quiet, kept to himself, the family seemed ok, etc.etc.etc. ultimately, this may be the pattern to produce a killer...as families hide unpleasant truths about their children, from themselves as well as from others. Guns shoot the bullets...why are they still ruling America? Other countries have banned them. Are we so feeble at this time that we cannot even consider this necessary action?
Shame on us, and please spare me photos of yet another teddy-bear, candle, flower strewn sidewalk. We need to do much more than wring our collective hands.
2
In order to completely eradicate hate, (something that has never happened in the history of human beings) it must be eradicated from each and every mindset of every person on earth. How do we begin to permanently eradicate racism, sexism, homophobia et all? How do we make it so that mind set will die forever with those that currently have it and make it so they cannot pass it on to others? Some of my suggestions would be that each one of us as individuals show a public and private no tolerance policy for hate in a verbal manner towards those that demonstrate it like it's ok. We as individuals have that power- to address children who are being taught at home that this is acceptable, to address adults who feel this is acceptable, and to demonstrate by our own actions on a daily basis that it is unacceptable. How will you and I and everyone else inspire this today, tomorrow, and forever? By leading by example, by educating, by letting those members of society know it is unacceptable and will no longer be tolerated. By putting people into office who practice this behavior and condemn those who think it ok. Society as a whole, is made of us the individual, the people, and we are the ones who have the power to erase this forever. We know it will take time, and it will take repetition, and we know it is possible. We are committed to this endeavor. This is our pledge, to eradicate hatred and extremism, pass it on!
1
The solution might be found in the next election. Democratic house, senate and presidency. Then confiscate all semi-automatic rifles and stringent background checks. This talk about mental health is a red herring and will not solve the problem. Unfortunately, the SCOTUS is rigged and any attempt on restrictions of the second amendment will fail and the country will unfortunately be left with gun carnage into the foreseeable future.
2
@Robert Haberman: The notion that the US is "under God" is mental illness on steroids.
Two thoughts. Given the rates of incidence of dangerous and toxic personality disorders enumerated by the DSM-5, mass killings are simply the direct result of having such a well armed populace with weapons in easy reach to anyone who really wants one. We would need to not only pass laws restricting gun ownership, but also remove vast numbers of fire arms now in circulation in our society. The second thought is more disturbing. The mass killings we experience on an almost daily basis serve a function much like the jiggle weight on a pressure cooker. They vent off excess pressure in a society that would otherwise explode in broader violence.
Stop blaming guns and stop thinking they will be banned. It won't happen. I don't own a gun but I support the right to own guns and there are Americans like me. My family has owned guns for generations and not one single accidental death or injury. They were used for military service, hunting and to defend property.
The only reason we still have land in our family is because the Black and Native men , sometimes women, were armed and able to protect our land from racists who would steal it. Laws restricting gun ownership by law abiding citizens were always racially biased and will be again. Often it occurred in states controlled by democrats. I can see this happening again where certain groups are treated harsher by law enforcement and will be denied ownership based on such disparity.
@Hellen There are tragic flaws in your reasoning and understanding of the background check system in the US.
Background checks are not mandatory in every state for every firearm purchase. Background checks are what ensures that the prospective purchaser are "law-abiding".
If gun ownership is restricted on account of a failed background check or other disqualifying event, the candidate has not proven themselves to be "law-abiding".
2
@Hellen Please compare the statistics between America and other countrys. Then you´ll find obvious that american laws are wrong.
@Bullmoose
Even law abiding Black and Native American men who put on a uniform and defended America were often told they could not own a gun. Obviously you are unaware of the history of denying Black and Native Americans gun ownership based on their race. It was one of the original reasons the NRA was founded.
Once again the racism experienced by Black and Native Americans is dismissed. This is my history whether America wants to acknowledge it or not. It is why you will never get guns banned in the Unied States unless this country deals with other issues.
I'm sorry, who is "stunned" by this?
Let's be real. AMERICA DOESN'T CARE. Not about dead children or fathers or mothers or the fact that preschoolers have to go through active shooter training or really anything at all.
12
@sea I am stunned. Yet, those who attempt to apologize for the white supremacy movement, the resurgence of nativism and "my rights, my guns", along with a "president" who stokes the fires of hate is making many more vocal, and violent, to the point we are becoming numbed to the continuous violence and hate.
All we, those who are stunned and fed up do is sit on our hands.
As a high school student myself, and with a classmate that acts like what Mr. Betts acted like, it shakes me to my core to hear this kind of story. It scares me that this is the type of person he may become and it terrifies me that at any given moment, at any one of the four school buildings in my school district, a really good day could turn into a life or death situation.
Aside from this, as the eldest daughter of three girls, I always try to put myself in the shoes of the victims when it comes to children and siblings. I often wonder what goes through the minds of the shooter when they're killing these people. In Mr. Betts' case, his own sister dies at his fingertips. I couldn't even imagine if one of my sisters killed the other, outside of the games we play. At their ages, it would most likely be a major accident, but one would not shoot the other. It's heart-wrenching to hear stories like this, it makes my mind go wild with "what-if's" and "if-this-happens."
My youngest sister (9) once talked to me about a fake bomb call that went around to every school in our district. She was in 2nd grade at the time, and she came home crying because she was scared for our 13 year old lab. I was more worried about her and my other sister, who was in 5th grade, and the building they were in were 5 minutes from the middle school where I was at. It is my belief that no child should have to worry about a person coming into their classroom with the intentions of hurting them.
2
@Page
M guess is that his sister knew what he was planning to do and naievely went there with 2 others to try to stop him. The descriptions of her are that she was outgoing, a lot more functional and socialized than he was. She was a good sister, but she was out of her depths this time.
Stun? I don't think so. After watching a listening to the litany of horrific bloody details and survivors' horror stories, followed predictably by the endless, endless "thought and prayers," I am beyond being stunned.
We have a president who is using vile words to goad, encourage, support, and salute acts of hate.
We have a Senate majority who are craven cowards, genuflecting to their Republican leaders and to the NRA.
Until either of these situations can be drastically overhauled or - better yet, eliminated - we will continue to read headlines like this. Just change the verb. Stun is so inappropriate.
2
We really aren't the least bit bewildered. I realize it's a constant stretch for the media to figure out how to cover this. Yesterday it was "stunned," today it's "bewildered." I think it would be progress to drop the genteel, 19th century tone of "Oh my, dear me - no one has ever seen the likes" or "How could it possibly happen here?" That ship has sailed.
The country is enraged, terrified, disgusted, horrified, revolted, traumatized, sickened, numbed, despairing, disconsolate. Cynical, resigned, beaten into submission, hopeless, perhaps sinking into psychotic depression, a state of learned helplessness or moral catatonia.
1
The false equivalences that 2nd amendment proponents keep spouting are beyond disgusting.
It is even more appalling that law enforcement by and large is silent about efforts on reasonable gun control - no doubt a result of a personal affinity to firearms or a worry that they will be ostracized by their gun loving brethren.
If rabid gun lovers choose to make a stand when confronted with surrendering their weapons take them on.
It's time to ban ALL weapons other than that used for hunting (and only a very small amount of weapons should be available for that purpose).
Modest proposals or a call to reason never appears to work for ANY issue in this country anymore. It's time for direct action by the leaders - if we have any.
2
"Back-to-Back Massacres Shake a Bewildered Nation", reads the headline.
I disagree. Yes, the nation is shaken, but how can it be "bewildered"? Mass shootings have occurred with more and more frequency in this country since August 1, 1966, when Charles Whitman climbed up into a tower in Texas, killed 14 people and wounded 31 others, one of whom died later.
How can the nation be "bewildered" when the current occupant of the White House regularly spews hatred via twitter, in remarks to the media, and at mass rallies at which his audience shouts vile slogans? My God, at a rally in Florida, Trump referenced immigrants and said, "How do you stop these people?" When an audience member yelled, "Shoot them", Trump did not admonish that person.
Shaken? Sure. Bewildered? No. Any student of history knows that words can incite violence. That's what's going on now, pure and simple. We must now ask ourselves if this is the country we want. If it isn't, then we have an opportunity in a little over a year to make a definitive statement to that effect.
5
The El Paso shooter was chronically and cruelly bullied for his hand-me-down clothes and odd mannerisms in jr. high and in high school. This is a common theme among mass shooters.
The kind of derangement and anger necessary to gun down 40 strangers does not come from presidential rhetoric - as convenient as it is for Trump haters to believe.
Unless and until as a society we do something about school bullying, these kinds of tragedies are going to happen. Sadly.
Instead of trying to put the genie of 300 MILLION guns in private hands back in the bottle, it would be more effective to address why a folks would want to kill strangers.
If you can't see that these shooters had something broken inside, probably for years, and that words written by others didn't cause it, you are blinding yourself by political hatred.
1
Stop justifying white male violence. Millions of us were and continue to be bullied yet we do not go around mass shooting people. Women and minorities have been used and abused by white males for centuries so any white boy complaining today can cry me a river. American White male culture is broken. The daily dose of sex and violence the United States feeds its boys plus racism, xenophobia and misogyny, brought to them by the president nonetheless these days has spawned these entitled white males angry at the world when they face their own incompetency and who can't compete for jobs or even mates once the field is leveled. These kind of males are everywhere but what makes the American case singularly sick is the fact that we have accepted the ridiculous interpretation of the 2nd ammendent that gives each of these angry losers full access to lethal weapons. That is the root of the problem and the solution.
1
Do not make the mistake of thinking we are “numb.” I’m not sure what form the unprecedented revulsion many of us feel will eventually take, but you’re missing something important.
3
People feeling powerless this morning and searching for inspiration might look to our fellow Americans in Puerto Rico for a lesson on how to proceed in the face of stubborn and outrageous behavior by politicians not looking after the public interest: Over the past month they collectively translated their grievances into massive and relentless street protests, and just last week forced the resignation of the Island’s governor.
At this point, aren’t there enough parents in this country to mobilize large and sustained protests, afraid of sending their children back to school next month, for fear they will be shot dead? Enough people afraid of going to church, Walmart, a restaurant, work?
And young millennials, these and other issues will define your entire life. Where’s the mobilization? Effectively exercising your 1st Amendment rights goes further than jawing with your friends on social media and includes the right to peaceful protest. Ask your parents about how youth protests started the end of the Vietnam War.
At this point, it could not be more clear that collectively sitting on our hands waiting for action by the political system – infused with politicians bought and paid for by the NRA and corporate interests – is doing nothing.
When I was growing up and in elementary school we did drills every month on what to do in a nuclear attack. The alarm would go off, we all went into the hallways, got down on our knees with our heads to the ground and against the wall, our hands covering our heads, and our eyes shut tight. It was scary stuff for kids to go through, wondering if we were about to be bombed or if it was just more practice. Our children are having to go through the same scary thing, but now it’s hiding in closets or under desks to protect yourself from being shot by one of your classmates. Back in my days in school we didn’t see the threat, couldn’t see the bad guys outside the school waiting to bomb us. Now children walk down the hallways among their peers not knowing if one of them might bring a gun to school and start shooting everyone. Nowadays you have to prepare to be killed at any moment, in any place, at any time of day. It’s not just the children wondering if they’ll go home today, it’s all of us, but it’s the children having to live in our current gun infested society that breaks my heart.
1
The Dayton shooter was not a right-winger. On the contrary. Will those who inspired him now be blamed for his violence? Will everyone who shares his political views be dragged through the mud? This would make little sense, and, yet, this is what has been happening.
2
Sandy Hook was a real turning point and a new low for political brinksmanship. Republicans simply didn’t want to give President Obama a “win” on any type of restrictive gun legislation. But then I just realized with that last sentence I’ve bought into the gun lobby’s paradigm; “restrictive gun legislation”. That’s a false reality. What’s really happening is that the gun lobby and gun owners are restricting OUR right to live our lives in safety.
Also, this “mental illness” trope is a ruse. Sure, people that wish to use a gun to commit suicide need intervention from a mental health professional. But they typically aren’t buying assault weapons to kill themselves. Take away assault weapons and high capacity clips and you greatly minimize tragedies like these. It’s plain as day. Don’t follow anyone down any rhetorical wormhole that says otherwise.
4
And why should a civilian be able to buy bulletproof clothing? What’s the practical use for it, unless of course we all start wearing it because we’re trying to reduce our risk of being shot while going about our daily lives.
The citizens of the USA need to understand that they have the power to stop this by just voting with an "Enough is Enough" stance. Any politician running for office who takes gun lobby money, "Just say No-Enough is Enough", any politician who does not vote for very strict gun regulations that outlaw assault weapons, magazines, bump stocks, bullet proof vests, etc.,etc. "Just say no! Enough is enough" If we made this issue a litmus test of someone getting into or keeping their seat in office, this would end sooner than you think. Wake up America- you have the power.
3
What the citizens of Hong-Kong would do if such carnage happened regularly in their city? Stay indoors or take the streets to protest against their government? But obviously we do not take these horrible acts as seriously as Hong-Kong citizens take their problems.
Trump has a real problem. He's psyched everyone up to be fearful of Moslems, Arabs, Mexicans, Immigrants and pretends to make us safer with exclusions, walls, detentions and expulsions. And now it turns out that a real fear is white Christian male nationalists. His problem is not just that he is not dealing with that problem, but that he has stirred it up. That not only is he unable to cope, but that he is a source of the problem: that he is making us less safe in a real immediate demonstrable way: that he is responsible for a loss of security and is not the protector.
3
Stunned? Bewildered? Far from it. This is well-worn routine. Stochastic terrorism flows from the top down in America. As long as the Times and others treat that fact as open to debate, it will continue unchecked.
4
Anyone in America who is "bewildered" by gun violence is SERIOUSLY not paying attention...
3
I’m no longer “bewildered” or “stunned.” I’m bereft.
3
When America led the world in the Second World War, the obvious consensus was that the people of Germany had become insane and evil. There was virtually no debate about the necessity of victory, even if it meant the ultimate extermination of Germany. No pretense then that there are 2 sides to everything.
Yet today, our national conversation endorses the notion that there is some equivalence between virtually unlimited access to guns, including automatic war fighting weapons, and the "opinion" of others that controls are necessary.
The delusion that the Constitution protects such gun access closes down any further review or change. The evils in this regard were initiated by Justice Scalia, and perpetuated by his family friend, George W. Bush, for whom he stole the 200 election. Bush refused to extend the assault rifle ban.
Our government even forbids itself from statistical analysis of gun crimes and the question of public health connected to the phenomenon.
On the subject of delusion and distorted thinking, does anyone else see the irony of the orgasmic pageants that follow our mass shootings? It's as if a meta-message is transmitted to unstable individuals to go out and murder as many as possible so the community can have a festival.
Please spare me the candles, yellow ribbons, balloons and teddy bears.
1
If everyone is concerned about gun violence, they need to vote in the next election. Vote out McConnell and his republican cronies. Vote out the racist president who encourages gun violence by his speech and tweets.
Vote in a majority of people who are opposed to gun violence.
Vote in people that may be for background checks, but also vote in people who sanely and realistically know that NO ONE except the military need assault rifles for any reason. That is the problem. Ban and Destroy Assault rifles. Now, in 2020. This is the beginning.
4
The liberals think that stricter gun laws will solve all the problem are mistaken. It gives the temporary illusion that some ragtag measure was enacted for feeling good.
How can they address serious mental problems?
What stops people from demonstrating peacefully against gun violence ?
1
You sit and say 'do not infringe on our second amendment right' yet you turn around and comment on how ghastly these shootings are.Time and again bills have been passed to curb gun violence but it seems the monsters have only been emboldened. Sometimes the simplest solutions are the most effective ones. If the government cannot control the use of guns, they might as well take a drastic step by declaring the second amendment moot. You see, the people we have placed our trust in to protect us are the same people whose sponsors are arming these monsters and fueling wars to increase their profit margins. I may sound radical but 29 dead in the space of 24 hours calls for radicalism. Are you a disinterested apathetic observer whose relative has to be a victim of such violence before you take action. This tragedy is a wake-up call. I urge you all to prevent this story from fading into the background as is custom. The dilly-dallying is enough! The bureaucracy is enough! Have we no respect for human life anymore! Enough is Enough!
Recall guns and make use of the billion dollar intelligence budget to fight crime and give people they protection they deserve! Stop lining your pockets and hear us weep with with sorrow.
" The evil that men do lives after them and the good is oft interred with their bones", so let it be with the United States government.
Only a fool refuses to change his mind even when they can see the havoc their decisions create.
1
A bewildered nation? I don't think these massacres come as any surprise, nor do we wonder why and how they occur. I'd call us a frustrated and weak nation, unwilling to stand up to the NRA.
1
More thoughts and prayers from the group of boys parading as men, whom can't part with their toys, like that will achieve anything.
4
NYT, please, I am not bewildered. I am wide-eyed, lucid and anything but bewildered.
There are many in our mystical and wildly disfunctional American family, mainly white men, thwarted & powerless, who seek to reclaim power in the quickest & most symbolic manner by accessing our almost unlimited stockpile of instantly available mass murder armaments.
2
Sadly, I'm neither bewildered or stunned.
I am: Outraged. Disheartened. Depressed. Disappointed. Frustrated. Furious. Heartbroken. Disdainful. And that's just in the last 30 minutes.
What I am not is surprised, bewildered or stunned.
What is wrong with the current occupant and his enablers, that even in this time of national tragedy and mourning, he and they continue to lie and deny any responsibility for the carnage that has been “invading” our nation? It is beyond imagination that this morning, while our country is racked with emotional pain and trauma, we have to deal with another self-serving tweet, blaming “fake” news for the incidents that have occurred and unfortunately will probably continue to occur. The mantra of hate and evil has been the theme of this administration, reenforced by a Republican Senate and Republican Supreme Court. These horrendous acts of terror are equivalent to their supreme leader going out onto Fifth Avenue and shooting an innocent bystander and getting away with it. His followers wil continue to worship at his feet because they hear the messages they have been suppressing all along now being said out loud and in print. VOTE THEM OUT-TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK-VOTE DEMOCRAT IN 2020.
The headline on the front page of the digital version of The Times reads: "Back-to-Back Massacres Shake a Bewildered Nation." In what sense could this nation possibly be "bewildered" by mass shootings at this point? The deaths from mass shootings just in the past two years are astounding -- Dayton (9 dead); El Paso (20 dead); Las Vegas (58 dead, 500 wounded), Virginia Beach (12 dead); , Aurora (5 dead, 6 wounded); Thousand Oaks (12 dead); Pittsburgh (11 dead), Annapolis (5 dead); Santa Fe (8 dead, 13 wounded) Parkland (17 dead); Sutherland Springs (24 dead) -- to the point that "bewildered" is hardly the correct term to use here.
"Bewildered" means "confused, "puzzled," "baffled," "mystified." How can anyone in this country be "bewildered" at this point by mass shootings here? They happen with regularity, from the east coast to the west coast and everywhere in between, and almost always the perpetrators are deranged white males. It just cannot be that hard to connect the dots: people with guns kill people. Without guns, people will still kill other people, but mass shootings will not occur by definition. "Thoughts and prayers" do precisely nothing, as evidenced by the fact that mass shootings continue to occur here, and in fact are increasing in number. "Open carry" hasn't stopped a mass shooting yet, to my knowledge. Mass shootings virtually never occur in countries with strict gun laws.
Guns = innocent dead people. Now stop being "bewildered."
We are numb to these shootings, except in the communities in which they happen. Press coverage appeases our grief and we silently gives thanks that our community was spared.
And they will continue unless the NRA is reigned in and congress enacts sensible gun laws.
The founding fathers only knew the trusty powder and ball blunderbuss, not the military assault weapon. The must be rolling in their graves.
Just do it congress, once gun safety is law, the rest will fall into place, enough.
1
Treat gun buying like abortion.
OR
tax bullets 1000%.
I do have a question:
Are gun owners required to pay insurance? You know like we do for our vehicles.
Right now most of us will have NO idea what the surviving families are dealing with right now. All the funeral arrangements, etc...
It's what we are right now: a sick nation.
1
We all should be ashamed. Thoughts and prayers? Shallow and repetitive reaction. Overdue for action - criminalizing ownership of any weapon deemed unsuitable for hunting, and no weapons with magazines, permitting rapid, repeated fire. I feel ashamed living in a Wild West culture. So immature, so dangerous.
1
in one of his latest tweets he blamed "fake news"
for contributing to the prevailing anger and rage.
distract, denigrate, deny, destroy - until people die.
Bewildered nation? Nope — I think a majority of people understand quite well that we have a toxic brew of past and present racism stoked by a racist demagogue of a president that fuels the rise of alt right extremists, and a political body, the Republicans led by Mitch McConnell, who are owned by the NRA and the far right and who refuse to act to preserve the laws and safety of ALL Americans and those within our borders. The only bewildering aspect of this is how Congressional Republicans can face themselves in the mirror each morning.
The people of Kentucky are running this country by continuing to vote for Mitch McConnell. This is what you get when the people of Kentucky run the country.
3
Gun control is a must. But it is only the first step. There are so many guns in circulation the problem probably won't totally be solved but if gun control saves one life then do it. But watch for a backlash from gun owners.
Maybe that first step will bring hope and progress for the next generation.
Step two would be not to elect people like the ones currently in the White House. I would list my reasons while I feel this way about the president and the GOP but it is a very long list and it has all been said before.
1
What regulation would have stopped this evil person's shooting spree?
1
Automatic rifles are weapons of war. Safety classes and longer intense background checks make sense
Since the 1960s, the Republican Political Machine has been
thwarting almost every piece of sensible gun control legislation, nationwide. During the Clinton Administration, an Assault Rifle ban was put in place, but only when the five-year Sunset Clause, demanded by the Republican Political Machine, was included in the legislation. People need to consider this political pathology if they are concerned about their families, their Country.
4
Maybe we should raise the age limit of buying guns. Ideally we would just outlaw these weapons that do not belong in the hands of private citizens, but seeing as the GOP is in the lap of the NRA and will stop that from happening, raising the age limit could be a temporary fix. You know why, I don’t know why I’m saying “we” as this is not an issue that can be democratically changed. It’s an issue of a select group of individuals in power trying to make a buck. But again, may I propose raising the age limit as a temporary fix.
3
What about the living survivors of these shootings? Bodies ripped into, psyches damaged forever. For the dead, only grief and memories are left — and a place in the records of “number killed.” The injured, and families of, must relearn how to walk or eat or see. They will deal with mental stresses we can’t imagine. We honor our wounded soldiers. What about our wounded civilians?
5
I live 20 minutes from the Oregon District in Dayton so this shooting hits home--literally. I was stunned after the El Paso hate killings and I'm puzzled by what the Dayton gunman's motive might have been--given that he killed his sister. The entire Dayton community is hurting this morning from these nine deaths. We are proud of the response of the Dayton Police in stopping this shooter in less than a minute. Had the killer gotten into the bar he was trying to enter he would have hurt and killed many more. It is going to take a long time to heal. Congress and the Ohio Legislature must act on gun safety measures now. Our streets and public places are not battlefields. Weapons of war have no place there.
2
In Dayton, police officers killed the active shooter approximately 30 after he started firing. That's pretty impressive. And it may bolster the "good guys with guns" argument the NRA/GOP has been pushing for decades.
The problem is, in those 30 seconds, the shooter managed to kill 9 people and wound another 27, because, thanks the the NRA/GOP, he had unfettered access to a military-grade assault rifle.
I guess it's just too bad for thousands upon thousands of mass-shooter victims in this country that the NRA/GOP considered their lives and their safety to be irrelevant as long as doing so brings them more money and more power.
Of course, their solution to the problem has always been the same - more guns. Which makes as much sense as saying the solution to racism - is more racism.
3
As long as the lobbyist are the one of the most powerful entities in this country, no change is going to come. The lawmakers are being held hostage by these lobbyists.
2
@ALN Held "hostage" is not the word I would use. "Owned" by the lobbyists is more appropriate.
Maybe the pro-life movement should broaden its scope to gun control to protect the living. There is no argument over the viability of a six-year-old and it has had success in taking away reproductive rights. Guns ought to be a snap.
5
After 2001 America descended into mindless wars abroad and mindless wars at home ..is the nature of all warmongering nations to eventually bankrupt themselves. Which is also always followed by rounds of reformation afterwards, and in the meantime the East has already been busy reforming and rebuilding for decades.
2
Who in the USA can still be surprised or shocked by this? It was bound to happen . And it will happen again, of course.
Call Mitch McConnell and tell him to finally get out of the way of gun legislation.
Alas, I don’t expect that to happen. After all, the main reason why the country is shocked seems to be the fact that there have been 2 mass shootings within 24 hours. As if that mattered.
Republicans, how many more dead will it take before you act?
6
At 68 years old we've seen this play out over and over again . America isn't shaken. 60 million people voted for Trump, which is basically an endorsement, acceptance of this behavior. And now with the Supreme Court stacked with Republican cronies, unless we rid ourselves of the 2nd Amendment we can expect this to go on indefinitely (meaning long after I'm gone).
5
One more thought on this subject... those who have opposed armed protection for public schools (and I mean former military with actual spine and acuity with weapons) are doing our children a disservice. It's nice to think of a country where schools are the way they once were. No more. Children need the same protections that are hired for politicians and many public spaces.
1
I’m certainly not stunned, (sickened yes) but not stunned because I’ve come to accept that this is what we are as a country: a nation that is more interested in preserving the rights of gun ownership over the safety of its people. If America really wanted to change this reality there would be massive demonstrations all over the country and in the nation’s capital; there isn’t. Just the shame chatter, quickly forgotten. If Sandy Hook couldn’t change this culture, nothing can.
5
Pretty amazing that keeping citizens safe from extreme gun violence is a partisan issue. I can't understand why the Democrats don't get on that single message and stay on it until public pressure forces GOP politicians to change their positions and act to help address it.
3
I don’t like to be pessimistic but I believe that all attempts to address the problem will be blocked... again.
3
The United States is known for its ingenuity, for finding a better way of doing something, for solving problems, except when it comes to gun violence.
If it was only your reputation that was at risk. Instead it’s your children’s lives and those of innocent people at the mall, a concert or at worship.
And you are supposed to be largely a people of faith - faith in what? In God or in guns?
And I hear there are some who are afraid of their guns being taken, their freedom - but feel no equivalent feelings for the lives being taken and their right to enjoy that liberty. It seems to me their right to live out weighs someone’s right to be empowered to take that right away.
Other observations I have is the peculiarity of a country of immigrants afraid of immigrants and a nation that championed the rule of law, which valued the role of a free press and democratic process seemingly turning its back on these fundamental values. And this coming from the highest office holders in your land.
What I fear is a hobbled USA entering its twilight unless it musters it’s courage to embrace its calling to create a more perfect union, once a beacon for opportunity and freedom.
If you won’t act to address your demise, so long, it was nice knowing you. But we will all live in a more perilous world because of your passing. And God bless you in the struggle.
4
One more thought on this subject... those who have opposed armed protection for public schools (and I mean former military with actual spine and acuity with weapons) are doing our children a disservice. It's nice to think of a country where schools are the way they once were. No more. Children need the same protections that are hired for politicians and many public spaces.
In the only developed country where there is no mandated paid family leave, no paid sick days, no universal healthcare, no paid vacation and no meaningful social safety legislation has been passed since Social Security, it is entirely unlikely that any legislation strengthening gun laws will result in morally bankrupt society that tolerates puppeteering by special interests like the NRA (Sen Rob Portman got $3 million) and is beholden to a 230-year old document that allows (well-regulated) musket ownership for perpetuity.
Americans are greedy and selfish individuals who publicly feign support for reasonable gun safety (universal background checks and firearm registration) but in the privacy of the voting booth they vilify government (unable to understand the safety measures it provides) and want tax cuts.
5
Excuse me, who's "bewildered"? This will go on and on until the politicians do what's right. It's not at all unexpected or bewildering given the climate in this country thanks to our "President".
4
For those of us alive today, we are condemned to suffer these horrors for the rest of our lives. As a direct result of our indifference, the NRA and conservatives of all political affiliations have flooded this country with weapons of mass destruction. By some estimates, there are now as many guns in circulation as there are people here. So even if we were to somehow halt the production of new guns today, it would still take at least a generation or two before the volume of firearms could be meaningfully reduced.
Together with climate change and the fiscal stability of this country, easily accessible guns represent the shameful and life-threatening legacy we will leave for future generations. History will not be kind to us.
1
@Lionel Hutz
We need a list made public of all gun owners in the country. Let it be up to us whom we will live next to; whom we will shun.
Sadly, the nation is no longer shaken or bewildered. The nation is numb. We've become all too used to mass shootings, the new normal.
If only a few of our politicians had the guts exhibited by New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, who took immediate care of the problem in the first mass shooting in her country.
Here? Thoughts and prayers, continuing to support the gun lobby, and nothing will change.
3
Many people in many states sell firearms merely by running an ad in the local freebie trader paper. Some states require the seller to do a background check; most do not. Does anyone really believe that the guy down the street with a bunch of guns for sale has the right -- if he even has the notion -- to check into anyone's mental health records? And, for that matter, what access do commercial firearms dealers have?
Wouldn't it be better to just assume that anyone who wants a gun isn't all there?
2
My husband was on the Virginia Tech campus when a gunman stormed campus and murdered several of my classmates and his colleagues; just a few years ago we moved to Connecticut and now live just miles from Sandy Hook, where a gunman opened fire in an elementary school. I grew up southern New Mexico, just 45 minutes from El Paso. Hatred and violence--not just mental illness--has brought horrific tragedy once thought unimaginable, to every place I have lived. College campus, elementary schools, high schools, concerts, shopping malls--it's no longer inconceivable to see your loved ones off to school and never see them again, or never return from a concert or night club. We don't seem to have final straw, so whose community will be next?
3
I don’t get what is going through heads of the second amendment folks when these things happen. You would think they would be clamoring for more mental health programs and programs to identify and disarm potential offenders, then programs to require the arming of all residents. Surely they don’t want to simply watch their neighbors mowed down.
2
@Robert Hadfield
Think of how many gun owners out there are saying, "If I had been there, I'd have blown the bad guy away before he took his first shot!" Can you just hear them?
I do not believe President Trump or gun are the main reasons these things happening in the US one too many times, I think it has to do with US history, culture and the way she behaves in the world. The US in her short history had one too many wars, from the beginning war was a part of her history. Since then way too many young men served in military service and killing has become part of daily life. The US needs got out of the old West mindset.
These problem does not start at age 20 or 30, it starts at childhood, kids do not have good parenting, educational system has failed, the medical system does not work, life with all greatness in the greatest country has become miserable. So they need to change a lot of things, including the welfare of the family or kids. If not, maybe each state should have people of the same race or ethnicities so these things happen less.
1
NOT stunned. NOT bewildered.
It’s assumed by most Americans that large groups of people will be shot to death randomly in public places, and that this will happen over and over without anything really being done about it except online outrage and little candles in paper cups.
Accepted, even. Just the price we all pay for less government and more “freedom”, as guaranteed by our inviolable 2nd amendment.
Until this kind of violence directly affects senators, nothing will change, and even then:
Who wields more power in the USA? The NRA or the citizens who might die because of guns.
Not bewildering at all. Reality.
4
I’m so shocked about these tragedies. Hope victims can have a better future life.
1
I'm going to say it yet again. Stricter background checks are not going to solve our gun problem. Mental health screenings are not going to solve our gun problem. None of the other milquetoast proposals will make a difference.
There is absolutely NO legitimate reason for the a citizen, unless employment requires it, to own a gun. Period. Killing deer and ducks is not sport. It's cruelty to animals. Recreational shooting? Find a different recreation. I'm calling for an outright ban on gun sales and the relinquishing of ones already owned.
4
@Karen K
I've always presumed that anyone who has a gun is a killer. It makes no difference to me if they haven't killed yet; the desire is still there.
This is a dark time in our history. In dark times, action trumps words, force trumps logic, and pain of human suffering trumps all other human emotions. We need to act, and act now. We need to fight hate, and fight hate with force, not with words. Politicians, in this dark time, please put your political associations, your personal interests, your biases aside, unite and act! Show American people and the world, we as a a nation still can achieve something. This time, the achievement is not in the outer space, but within ourselves. We can fight demons within ourselves. And we will.
2
In the Army, i had my own AR-15 (then an M-16). It was, and is a lethally efficient and deadly weapon designed for one purpose: to kill people. Lots of people. Quickly and in large numbers. It has NO other purpose. Good guys with guns? I don't car how many "good guys" were carrying in El Paso (or in Dayton). If they were more than ten feet (I'm being generous here) from the shooter, they would be dead within seconds of drawing their weapons. And with very little chance of actually hitting the shooter and a high chance of hitting innocent bystanders. No one (save the people that have to, like law enforcement) goes up against a auto, semi-automatic combat weapon/long gun with a pistol and hopes to survive the encounter.
5
NYT, why the headline with 'bewildered'? Are you really bewildered by these shootings? You shouldn't be. While each may not contain the exact same dynamics, these events are far from bewildering. I don't recall a similar rash of mass shootings during any previous administrations. Trump has allowed people who are close to the edge to step off of the cliff and you don't hear other Republicans call for gun control. Remember that Australia has greatly reduced these mass shootings because their politicians had the courage to ban assault guns. Also, remember that as late as 1980, Republican Presidential platforms contained gun control language until the NRA started contributing money if they would remove it. And the rest is history.
2
The worst thing is that the law makers can do something to minimize the gun violence but chose not to. It is a tragedy for all Americans. It is useless to mourn, pray, or condemn the violence because it will happen again. Please do something really useful for everyday Americans, ban the assault weapons and large capacity magazines.
1
Trump (and apparently many of the republicans) aren't able to be empathetic.
John Gartner, Ph.D. is the founder of Duty to Warn, an organization intent on warning our country that we are in dire trouble due to our president’s mental instability. More than 60,000 mental health professionals have signed John’s petition, which states:
“We, the undersigned mental health professionals, believe in our professional judgment that Donald Trump manifests a serious mental illness that renders him psychologically incapable of competently discharging the duties of President of the United States. And we respectfully request he be removed from office, according to article 4 of the 25th amendment to the Constitution, which states that the president will be replaced if he is ‘unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.”
President Trump argues he is above the law. A thousand prosecutors say he’s wrong [LaTimes]
As of Wednesday, more than 1,000 former federal prosecutors had signed a statement explaining that, in their professional judgment and based on the facts described in special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s report, President Trump would have been criminally charged with obstruction of justice if he were not the president. This public outcry from such a large group of prosecutors — who have served under Republican and Democratic presidents — is unprecedented and indicative of overwhelming expert agreement on the evidence and law supporting charges against Trump.
4
What a terrible tragedy. How terrible that there won't be any consequences - or will there be some? Elections have consequences and the majority of Americans who are against military style weapons in the hands of basically everybody who wishes to possess them have an opportunity to vote against a party which is beholden to the NRA at the Presidential, Senate, House and state government level. Vote against those politicians for who a strong rating by the NRA is more important than protecting the life of innovcent American citizens.
3
I think it is long over due that the media stop shielding the public from the true visual horror of these events. What is the rationale for keeping the images of blood soaked corpses hidden? To protect youth? Meanwhile youth are being gunned down in schools, churches and shopping malls. Until one of these events happens in your community or touches someone you know, it all remains far too abstract and distant. The images should be on billboards, on television commercials, on the front page of the NY Times. Who are we as a nation? We are piles of bullet ridden blood soaked bodies discreetly covered with tarps and hidden while we carry on as if nothing happened. Yeah, people may have arguments on social media or write nicely worded and carefully considered op-ed pieces, but that amounts to nothing more than yelling at a wall.
5
This changes nothing. Political gridlock and the NRA will ensure nothing gets done. With 350 million guns out there in America the task is near impossible
And once the Nation decided that dead six year olds are an acceptable price for gun ownership it’s all over except for the grieving.
4
On Feb. 28, 2017, President Trump signed H.J. Res. 40, effectively ending the Social Security Administration's requirement to enter the names of people who receive mental health benefits into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. This is the database used by the FBI to determine who is able to purchase firearms.
3
@David Henry
I was just checking on who in the U.S. has access to citizens' medical records, including mental health files. It's pretty disturbing to see that just about the entire world can take a peek at what's going on under our skin and inside our heads. Why should your name be in a criminal background system -- criminal! -- because you receive mental health benefits? Is this not insane?
We are not a country that has become nearly numb; with political enablers, we are a country that has become complicit.
3
@Meg Riley
I'd modify your comment just slightly.
Shocked? Yes. Shaken? Yes. Surprised? Not all all. That, to me, is saddest of all.
We're all whistling past the graveyard, hoping that the next time, which is a certainty, it won't be one of our loved ones.
2
We know the republicans will not act. It is up to the Democrats to shut down the government to force a national referendum on gun control. Stop everything we’re doing and solve this problem no matter how long it takes.
3
We should all stop shopping period. If we're not safe in malls we need to put pressure on retailers and the economy until Congress takes action. Stop shopping. The kids don't need new school clothes more than they need their lives or your's. We don't need the next gadget or makeup or whatever. Boycott retail stores until there is change... real change.
1
@elaine
First, let's boycott stores that carry firearms. Why are we buying groceries where ammunition is a couple of aisles over?
“Bewildered” seems an odd choice of words for this story’s headline. I know you can’t say “clueless” but it’s more accurate. The clueless majority has trumped the people with common sense fears.
The clueless believe it’s social media, or mental health, or video games causing all this. They believe it’s anything but guns. There are enough of them to elect a senate that will do nothing other than collect money from the NRA and serve corporate giants who could care less about the destruction of the nation’s social fabric so long as they make their numbers.
The clueless elect state legislatures that open the spigot of gun traffic to maximum flow.
It’s not a bewildered nation. By next week, the clueless will be back in full control. Wait and see.
2
I'm not "bewildered" at all. It's predictable that these will continue until we elect leaders eager, ready, and willing to take on this problem of domestic terrorism, with real legislation and executive action. America is very slowly learning a very painful lesson here. Let's hope it finally sinks in.
3
We’re not bewildered. We’re guilty. We have given white nationalism legitimacy. We have told gun rights activists, their guns are more important than human lives. We continue to debate the idea of truth. But there’s no debate on it: truth is truth. Hatred and guns kill people. Want this to stop? We have to take responsibility for fomenting hate and for putting gun rights over human rights.
4
Why is this stunning? I mean if you don't protect kids going to school. (they now sell bullet proof backpacks), why is a store shooting stunning? Because if involves commerce? That would be great if people just would quit going to Walmart. Maybe someone in business will get upset enough to think maybe they shouldn't sell guns. Once they didn't ban assault weapons after Sandy Hook, I didn't have much hope. And I still don't. Any of us can get shot at any time doing any activity and our government just doesn't care.
3
What's bewildering to me is that the parents of these young men are never held accountable for the kids they raise. The hatred these young men show for their fellow man, whatever the race, etc. has built up over the years, and was either ignored, or even encourage in the home. Trump had very little to do with how these kids are raised - their parents are. Time for parents to do some time if their kids do crime this horrific.
3
The gunman in the Dayton tragedy was able to inflict great carnage despite the fact that he was killed by police within one minute of his first gunshots. He was only able to do that because he had an automatic weapon with a high-capacity magazine clip. Such weapons should be taken off the streets and any legislator who opposes such a law should be removed from office.
2
The United States has spent approximately 3 trillion dollars since 9-11 to fight terrorism. For the cost of one assault rifle and a box of bullets, a single angry man, the might of American power is rendered impotent. When the political and business leaders of a country cannot muster the backbone and courage to control access to these killing machines, you are done like dinner.
Silence and inaction is unacceptable.
4
I don’t understand your headline in the print edition. If this nation were truly “bewildered”or, “shaken to its core”, it would act differently. This nation, founded in blood and division and violence and racism and religious fundamentalism is getting exactly what it should expect. The human sacrifice demanded by the love of one incredibly narrowly defined “freedom “ is a cost no one should be “bewildered “ by.
2
No, I’m not “stunned”...and I believe many of us are not stunned.
This is a consequence of a greed driven nation, which promotes a sick culture of stressed parents, damaged children and xenophobic groups.
And we praise the cult of personal weapons of mass destruction, in the names of freedom and self-defense.
We are getting just what one would expect, I believe.
1
I am so very angry. I am experiencing a mix of despair, anger and frustration. What is it going to take for our duly elected representatives to enact gun legislation to remove these battlefield weapons from our streets?
These assault rifles have no place in our community unless they are being carried by trained police officers or Federal agents.
I carried an assault rifle in Vietnam, both the M-14 and the M-16. They are devastating weapons designed to do maximum damage to the human body. They are weapons of war.
What is it going to take? I have just contacted both my senators and my congressman to express my complete outrage over congressional inertia. I would urge the NY Times readers to do likewise. This madness has to stop.
2
We have a violent culture. We extol violence and force as the solution to problems. We are certain of our righteousness.
Anyone espousing non-violence is demeaned and ridiculed. We have a much much bigger problem than guns. The total number of US citizens killed in WW2 is the same as the number of children killed by the sanctions imposed on Iraq by HW Bush. But we are assured by Madelaine Albright that it was worth it. "Sanctions" kill as effectively as guns, bombs, biological weapons--of which our government cannot get enough.
Our police are armed to the teeth. Our civil liberties have been almost totally eliminated. Government surveillence is without limit. Suspect someone of terrorism or "hate speech" and they
can be jailed in a brig somewhere, indefinitely, tortured. The powerful get away with murder literally. Sure, take away citizen's guns ----that's the ticket.
1
This feels like war... I lived abroad during a time of civil war, when every trip to the market, every decision to ride a bus ride or go to a party or attend an open air event was a calculated decision in risk. The US is becoming like that now. And I fear that these are becoming coordinated acts of war from an increasingly emboldened, empowered, financed white supremacy movement. And I fear that the GOP and our current WH Resident are completely complicit. The enemy is "us."
What's so "stunning" about these tragedies? This country has destroyed other countries, killing many thousands of people in the process. Our media glorifies government sponsored murder and mayhem with perhaps an occasional acknowledgement to the "collateral damage." Murder and exploitation of other people has been an American way of life for years, and our policies have made it easy for it to hit home. What goes around, comes around.
2
I’m not going to listen to Trump’s remarks on these tragedies because I know the script: A few insincere and mangled words of sympathy, followed by a clumsy, illogical pivot tying gun control to immigration reform (playing quid pro quo with people’s lives), and then back to business as usual on Tuesday and beyond with the incendiary, racist remarks and rallies, and the usual plausible deniability for whatever follows.
Thanks, but I’ll pass. I’ll wait for true leadership — and granted, it will most likely be a long wait.
1
Why are deaths by certain modes given higher value or shall I say expression of outrage than others? Do we value life differently? On average 100 Americans die everyday in car accidents (last year 40,000 died). On average 1500 Americans die from Cancer and 2500 from Hearth disease every day. Many more die from drug consumption. Yet, the media and some get outraged for weeks when a gunman kills some Americans. I am also outraged, but equally for deaths from all of these causes. But we do need some sanity and balance. And no, I do not own any guns nor am I a Republican or white. Just a minority amused by how deaths are treated differently in the US.
It's not just guns, but a problem tied directly to the American scene. If you don't establish vibrant centers for people, i.e., people friendly, not car friendly; well--a recipe for alienation. Alienation breeds despair and the dark side of life. That's what we've got here in the US. Build more shopping centers, Wal-Marts, sprawl, ex-urbia sites---couple that with dsyfunctional families, high rate of mental illness; suddenly--you've got the ingredients for disaster. We're there!
43
@Lee Paxton
Some certain level , this is true.
Frequency of these shootings indicates This is a very special disease of American society stemming from various reasons.
But no other developed western world this type of incidences happening at this frequency.
5
@Lee Paxton. This is a good point. We have done more in the last 50 years to separate people, rather than to bring them together. Case in point: cell phones. People choose to stare at their phones than to even make eye contact on a sidewalk, at a table in a restaurant, at the subway/bus stop, anywhere.
2
@Lee Paxton
Other countries have shopping centers. Other countries have mental illness. Other countries have dysfunctional families and violent videogames and rap music.
There's no distinctive rot in the American character. What there is is an overabundance of firepower.
5
These mass shootings get way too much press, Headlines one day, then move on. This is not news in America, just another mass shooting. Even Trump says "Too bad" and goes back to his golf game.
5
How about publishing a list of congress members who have received money from the NRA.
12
@J
And then we can go after all the democrats who have received money from so-called rights organizations associated in any way with Chicago gun deaths.
I have to take exception with another NYT headline. The one for this story describes the nation as "bewildered." Really?
What are they confused about? The U.S. averages more than one mass shooting a day. The U.S. has twice the number of legal guns per person than every other country. The U.S. has a racist political party controlling much if its government, led by a white nationalist. Public opinion polls over several years show a clear majority favoring stricter gun control, yet corrupt, spineless politicians ignore them and loosen restrictions.
The reasons for the problem are clear. So, no, the nation isn't "bewildered." It's disgusted with our political establishment.
15
@Dario Bernardini
Our nation is not disgusted. The votes year after year shows our nation loves the NRA and the GOP. There is no way the GOP is losing the Senate. There is no way the NRA is losing influence over the people who vote in the GOP.
@gratis
Agree that 40% of voters love the GOP and NRA. But thanks to corruption and an idiotic electoral system, that minority controls government and prevents changes favored by the majority.
This poem by Wendell Barry is appropriate for our political leaders today, and everyday.
Questionnaire
by Wendell Berry
How much poison are you willing
to eat for the success of the free
market and global trade? Please
name your preferred poisons.
For the sake of goodness, how much
evil are you willing to do?
Fill in the following blanks
with the names of your favorite
evils and acts of hatred.
What sacrifices are you prepared
to make for culture and civilization?
Please list the monuments, shrines,
and works of art you would
most willingly destroy
In the name of patriotism and
the flag, how much of our beloved
land are you willing to desecrate?
List in the following spaces
the mountains, rivers, towns, farms
you could most readily do without.
State briefly the ideas, ideals, or hopes,
the energy sources, the kinds of security;
for which you would kill a child.
Name, please, the children whom
you would be willing to kill.
"Questionnaire" by Wendell Berry from Leavings.
6
I’m pretty sure the answer is all if them.
There's nothing bewildering here. Nobody seems bewildered in the article, either. Some are enraged and want to restrict gun rights; some are defensive and see periodic massacres as a fair price to pay for gun rights; some are confused and don't see the link between gun rights and massacres.
But all camps are pretty used to this, NYT. You should probably review your boldface "Nation Shocked" policy for these articles.
2
Stun? Seriously? Stun a nation whose population voted for Trump to be president? Stun a nation where so many people have guns and think they have a right to assault rifles that are sold by a gun loving and supportive industry that is endorsed by the president the population voted in? Sorry, that’s a bad headline. Not stunned. Please. I am always looking over my shoulder. Worry about my children constantly about random gun violence by some underachieving loser, a low IQ’d misfit looking for fame.
4
You reap what you sow, Mr. Trump. Own it.
8
let's face it. angry white males are the real danger. isolated, weaponized, motivated by hate they plan mass murder as a means of their own expression. why are military grade weapons marketed? why are military grade ammo and clips marketed? why is body armor marketed? because we are a society built on murder. we obviously do not have the will or ability to change this fact. so this will continue God help us.
4
The NRA/GOP position on these weekly mass-murders is clear. "We couldn't care less!".
7
@Chicago Guy
Not exactly. The NRA will raise $millions off this.
More lip service, less action...
And sure, race baiting has nothing to do with it...
(But perhaps if it was 29 white politicians in Washington or 29 of America's most wealthy, maybe something would be done by them, at least to save their own skins...)
2
Why would these shooting stun the country, they happen quite frequently. I expect them to happen even more often as Trump's reelection campaign of stoking the flames of hate, bigotry, and white-nationalism start in full.
2
All this so you can have your gun. Hope its worth it.
2
Well Mr. Trump, here's your 'American Carnage'. Are you going to allow this to continue?
4
In a better world, the names of the El Paso and Dayton shooters wouldn’t be known. The evidence would be gathered. The killer who lived would be tried this week, hung next with only the families of the victims as witnesses. There would be no CNN discussions. There would be no Twitter trending with the killers’ names because NY Times would not be headlining them.
The focus, instead, would be on the victims and helping them.
Copycats would see that the outcome of these barbaric acts gets them no notoriety. They would realize that the consequences of a choice to kill would be to die anonymous and alone, never to be remembered. Their time on this planet will be ignominious and brief. Justice would be swift and complete.
3
"Back-to-Back Massacres Shake a Bewildered Nation"
bewildered? um, no. try exasperated.
3
So why is this shooting any different from any others that have been committed over the last decade?
The simple answer is its not. What is different is that the outrage is growing louder. Whether this will make one iota of difference is something we will wait to see.
With the current political climate of acquiring political capital through relentless blame is a cloud so foggy that no change will be the final outcome from this tragedy. Until the next mindless stupid shooting.
I am reading the NYT online as usual with MSNBC on in the background. Morning Joe showed the tape of the President in the panhandle of Florida back in early May. This is the tape where a person in the audience shouted "shoot them" and the President laughed and said "only in the panhandle". This was shown 3 times in succession. This was also in response to this morning's tweet where he blames fake news... It is no wonder that the events of this past weekend in El Paso and Dayton lay upon the occupant of the White House Oval Office... Donald J. Trump 45th President of the United States... Harry S. Truman 33rd President of the United States... stated famously "THE BUCK STOPS HERE"...
5
Surely now there is ample evidence that the person in the White house who holds the Presidency has willfully promoted violence and hatred towards minorities...it's in his rallies, on his own social media, on the social media of these white terrorists and in the horror being inflicted by these terrorists. What more do you need America to either remove DT from office or impeach him? Having left it so long now means you risk further uprising by these armed groups. Revolution in slow motion. Already upon you.
2
It is outrageous, dangerous, and heartbreaking that trump is accepting no responsibility and even considering a visit to El Paso, while astonishingly blaming the media for the recent murders. If he goes to El Paso, they need to protest, march, and tell the truth to this narcissistic man. All must turn their back on him. They are in mourning and this president is understandably not welcome by many.
Yes, trumps goal todayis clear: the media is exposing him with facts and live video footage of his hate so he does his typical play by attempting to blame the media. The media must respond with more truth and stronger evidence.
Again trump is dishonest, a liar, and shows he is doubling down not reflecting at all. So he is again stoking his faithful white nationalist communities at the expense of the victims.
We cannot accept a president who has been complicit and himself a rambunctious leader in marginalizing, sidelining, and scaring the Hispanic, Muslim, and now African-American communities - in combination with attacks on all races whom, in response, stand up for all Americans, especially those he is demonizing.
Fact: the El Paso killer provides cover for Trump - clearly one of his powerful mentors/leaders. If he did not feel support and allegiance to trump and his ideals why would he go out of his way to provide him cover. This is what a cult follower would do for his beloved cult leader. In my opinion, this assigns guild in complicity directly to donald j trump.
5
@KiKi
Don't forget that other recent shooter with the Van covered with Trump stickers and hatred...I think it was in Florida...so many of these I can't recall.
It's too late.
Even pre- checks on people will NOT stop the carnage......suppose you buy a gun when you are totally sane and have no criminal history, and then develop those traits? Then what? SInce there is no credible followup, nothing will change.
Once you get the gun, that's it. You go on your way in life...to develop mental illness, hatred, perceived injustice against you....whatever excuse du'jour.
Better advice:
Make sure your affairs are in order.
Let your family and friends know you love them EVERY DAY in case you don't come home from a trip to the store to buy milk or from a movie on a Sunday afternoon.
After all, gun owners have rights!
It's about all that can be done now that the horse has left the barn and the barn has burned to the ground.
O yes....Thoughts and prayers for you and yours!!!!
2
So conservative and Republican-leaning Americans: are you ready to confront your so called "representives", the ones that could not care less about you and your families as long as the checks from the NRA clear?
2
The solution is simple: Gun Control throughout the United States!
US politicians need to review the words in the national anthem:
"...land of the free, and the home of the brave..."
Freedom in 2019 must be redefined. It must not include the right for almost everyone to carry lethal weapons. The system is not working and it is getting worse!
Politicians must also prove their own bravery and have an emergency vote for the implementation of immediate measures on strict gun control to protect the citizens and visitors in the USA.
Face it! There is absolutely no other way to prevent these horrific attacks!
5
Freedom from gun violence is basic to our national ideals, not gun ownership to kill your countrymen, claiming self defense.
Shocked? C’mon. There’s nothing shocking about it. Just another day in America to be thankful it wasn’t me on the other side of the muzzle.
4
This pattern is known, hate speech fuels domestic terrorism. That + firearms in the wrong hands is how you get these terrible days in America. We need to stop this before it gets worse.
4
"The gunman was wearing a mask, body armor and hearing protection, and he possessed a high-capacity magazine capable of holding 100 rounds, the police said."
How in blazes is body armor and a high capacity magazine legal? must be for the deer who shoot back. how is this lunacy justified. sporting rifle?
its target practice alright...with human beings.
...waiting for Moscow Mitch and his hearts and prayers line.
4
Nuclear bombs in briefcases is the next so called self defense weapon promoted under the 2nd Amendment.
@pditty
Don't forget the laser and night vision scope in case you want to hunt at night.
Philadelphia Union captain Alejandro Bedoya, "Hey. Congress do something about gun violence." Strange times when an average footballer with an average soccer football team makes better sense than the President.
4
Like many readers, I don't care for the NYTimes 'front page' headline. (Ditto today's NYPost).
Both confer too much hope, faith and/or trust in this President and invoke a kind of reinforcing 'I alone can fix it' sort of expectation of 45 -- when of course, he has proven to be far more the cause than the cure of this type of horror.
He's utterly impotent on this issue. I certainly won't waste a second appealing to him to salve my spirit.
I'm just so, so very sad for all the lives lost, and for the survivors' with injuries so devastating and that will plague them for the rest of their days. Such an unnecessary waste of so much.
1
Ok, we all know the drill:
Step 1—politicians express outrage. Then say it’s not their fault.
Step 2 –everyone looks at each other and says something needs to be done, but we can’t mess with the sacred 2nd Amendment so nothing comes out of discussion.
Step 3 we get into a bewildering debate about mental health issues v gun control. Again, nothing really comes out of debate, except perfecting the finger pointing.
Step 4—we hold a vigil and everyone hugs each other. Someone buys candles.
Step 5—the press offers thoughts and prayers to the families.
Step 6—the press scrambles to find a “American hero.” This is a person who survived or died in the mass shooting who saved someone in the crowd. A full profile of his/her life including what they do for a living, their spouse and children and where they live. People write in to say “isn’t that person a American hero! So unique and courageous!”
Step 7—Deflection complete, politicians make a few more appearances on media, squirm and make noise, but secretly know they will not do anything to change situation.
Step 8—everyone goes back to their lives and waits for the next shooting. We know the drill. Places everyone.
6
@stp
Step 4A-- Blame everyone you despise starting with the president and expanding that group to included all republicans and anyone who isn't a progressive.
@stp Wow. Well put. You are absolutely right.
1
No mention of the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting? It was just a few days earlier. Are we so jaded that it already fell into the background?
3
@Edmund
Yes.
Politicians do your job! Yes, I know the second amendment and the right to bear arms but it doesn't reference bullets. HIGHLY REGULATE THEM. MAKE THEM DIFFICULT TO ACQUIRE. SET A LIMIT ON HOW MANY SOMEONE CAN PURCHASE. Sorry to the NYTimes readers but the caps are for our politicians. Maybe they will hear me better.
1
Please for the sake of everyone put Trump behind a wall/cage and keep him far from the general public and Twitter.
I have a trip planned to the USA and I frankly I am thinking of cancelling.
I am now very afraid of the USA.
6
@KLA
You are wise to cancel and if every potential tourist did, maybe the politicians would take notice, because the language of money and avarice is what matters to them.
2
Shame on you NY Times. This is neither bewildering or stunning. It is predictable and the fault of any and all politicians who refuse to enact MAJOR gun law reforms. We should look to the swift gun law overhaul by New Zealand's Jacinda Ardern in the days after Christchurch. Otherwise, each new shooting by a domestic terrorist (let's call it what it is) is neither stunning nor bewildering, it is the outcome by a government more intent on protecting the NRA than the lives of the innocent.
3
My husband and I have been having an on-going conversation about 'negative freedom' vs. 'positive freedom' since the Democratic Debates of last week.
It stemmed from wanting to understand what was driving the fear of universal healthcare, which seems from a country that has it, to be essentially against both societal and one's own self-interest.
And now this. These mass shootings. Why are they in the US and not here, not in other very similar countries?
It really does seem that it is about the conversation about freedom and what freedom IS to some people. In the United States, there's the foundational idea of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness', whereas in Canada, our foundation is built on the (admittedly less exciting) Peace, Order and Good Government.
In the US, freedom for many seems to mean being free to carry a gun, no matter the cost, and to choose one's own health coverage, no matter the cost - and these costs are to themselves or others. Liberty is embodied as less rules, less government, less regulation.
Here there seems to be more acceptance about rule of law as the method to make us more free, that we believe in adhering to the social contract means we live and let live with more, not less, agency.
No one is truly free if one's freedom comes at the expense of others. If Americans want genuine liberty, the government needs to exercise its responsibility to limit some rights in order to preserve the 'life' part of your foundational motto.
14
When polio epidemics were rampant in the 1950s, fear of contracting the disease made people frightened and wary of crowds, altering the way people lived their daily lives. The horrific mass murders our country is experiencing now are doing the same thing to our society.
In the case of polio, our government sponsored the research and development of a vaccine that eradicated the disease and the fear of it from this country. Today, our government must change our gun laws to protect us all.
11
@JHMS
The problem with more laws is that existing laws are not being followed. "More laws" may appease but it might not solve the problem.
If we are serious about solving this problem, it's important to get crystal clear on what the problem actually is.
Good luck to us all with that. They don’t seem able to make toast.
Normally, public policy is created by considering a compromise between cost and benefit. But what is the benefit of the proliferation of automatic weapons? What is the public benefit of freedom for gun owners? What benefit was derived by the innocent victims in a movie theatre, an elementary school, out door concert, church, night club, college campus, office building, etc?
The cost of this failure is not just meaningless, avoidable death. It is also our freedom, freedom from fear in our own town, places of worship, and work.
A few people get the false benefit of gun ownership. The rest of us live in fear, and others are simply murdered.
It is time to repeal the 2nd Amendment.
19
While I agree with 90% of what people are posting here, it's all kind of pointless...
People should be standing at the front doors of their representatives demanding action and shouldn't leave until they get a commitment that something substantial will be done to prevent the people they serve from being subjected to the unending nightmare.
7
We don't need guns. We only think we need guns.
How do we change the attitudes? Until we do, there will be no real change in guns, accessibility or use.
There's nothing wrong with strict controls over weapons, types, capabilities and ammunition. There's everything wrong if we do nothing.
Expect more deaths before we as a nation wake up and change.
5
For the defense of this nation, it's time to make healthcare part of the Military Budget. We spend trillions on weaponry, R&D, troop deployment, contractors, etc., because we believe defending the country is a constitutional mandate. If so, then the health and well being of our citizens should extend to their mental health. Our health care system has been failing Americans for decades and these horrific attacks will never stop if we don't take care of our at risk children and young adults. We're now in permanent crisis mode.
1
Laws concerning hate crimes vary widely from state to state and in many jurisdictions police won't act on complaints about hate mail unless it explicitly constitutes a threat. The internet, of course, has made dissemination of hate a one-cick exercise and provided solidarity to people who share hatred of a specific group or groups. (Thanks to the internet, almost none of these mass shooters can be described as "loners.") We need to enlarge the discussion beyond guns to address the holes in our legal fabric that have made these crimes against society mundane. We tamed the Wild West. Can't we do the same for the whole country?
2
As difficult as it may be to legislate, the following seems to me to be needed to bring the number of mass shootings more in line with that of other advanced nations:
1. Ban all military-type assault weapons such AK-14 guns, bazookas, etc.
2. Greatly increase gun control measures,
3. Repeal the 2nd Amendment,
4. Outlaw or otherwise restrict the activities of the NRA ,
5. Restrict gun ownership to registered hunters, the military, and the police.
Most of these measures seem to be hopeless goals, but so did the right to vote for women in the 19th century and the Civil Rights Act before the sixties. Since none of these measures will be enacted we probably are in for a future of unrestricted mass shootings.
3
We're going to look back on this in 20 years and be sickened that we didn't enact severe gun control earlier. Nah, what am I thinking? Nothing will be done and these events will be completely forgotten for the hundreds of more recent mass shootings.
5
Leadership must come from the top. The President should tell Congress to develop gun legislation for him to sign. But, will Republicans do anything following this travesty?
What did Republican leadership do after the mass killings in Gilroy, Virginia Beach, Highlands Ranch, Charlotte, Poway, Aurora, Houston, Ascension Parish, Livingston Parish, and Sebring, to count only the 2019 mass shootings?
Follow the money, to see what is in Republican hearts and minds. NRA spent $54.4 million in the 2016 election cycle. All of that $54.4 million, except $265.00 dollars, went to Republicans, who gladly, open-handedly, took that money.
Democrats in the House need to pass comprehensive gun control legislation, and force Republican senators and Trump to say no to it.
For years, Senator Murphy introduced or cosponsored legislation to close loopholes in our background check system; to make it illegal for those on the FBI terror watch list to buy a gun; to end the ban on gun violence research at the Center for Disease Control; to encourage licensing requirements for handgun purchases; and to help keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers. And he's repeatedly said we need legislation to outlaw fully automatic semi automatic guns from being on the market. That would be a great start.
When Republican senators say no, they'd advertise their disdain for sensible legislation. And with that disdain we'd remove Republicans from the Senate and get something done on this vital topic.
2
I am a museum educator. Multiple times now, I have gone through extensive trainings for what to do in the case of an active shooter in the building. We are asked to be prepared to be teaching and, the next moment, be analyzing whether it’s best to run, hide, or fight as a shooter approaches. We are asked to consider how to protect as many children as we can when I myself am only a recent college graduate, and am of the generation who grew up with active shooter drills in my classrooms. As much as this may be a reality of the current moment, it is absolutely horrifying to consider these situations and to realize that at any day, a normal workday, classroom activity or gallery experience could turn into a life or death situation. It’s not fair to my generation or those that follow that gun-toting NRA members have prioritized their right to bear arms (constitutionally dubious as it is), and GOP senators and congress people have prioritized NRA campaign contributions, over our collective right to feel safe in workplaces, schools, movie theaters, stores, and cultural institutions. When will the spineless in governance stand up and say enough is enough?
218
@Emily
We have allowed the gop to run rampant over us for decades now, and this is the logical conclusion of that.
They do what they want, legal or not, mostly illegal.
Even when they lose, they win by whining and posturing and obstruction to the max. They have nothing for us but theft of our resources and lies, never ending lies.
When more citizens become tired of this campaign of misinformation and total destruction and finally vote them all out, then maybe enough will be enough. Maybe.
Our self-inflicted helplessness is the real problem here.
11
@Emily
You are right. We all recognize that our exercise of any given right is limited if it infringes on the rights of others. There's no reason 2A should not be subject to the kinds of limitations that 1A is. Freedom of speech under the First Amendment does not give me the right to libel, lie under oath, violate copyright, or contractually promise customers something and not deliver it. Contracts and oaths are forms of regulating or licensing speech. Freedom of assembly may require me to obtain a license to organize a protest in certain public spaces. There is no reason that gun ownership has to be unlicensed. Regulation is not infringement.
14
@Emily
Do not worry. Trump is Making America Great Again. Look around and you can see it happening even as we speak.
(For me, this is sarcasm. For 40% of America, this is their reality.)
9
My heart bleeds.
I was born in El Paso, and even though I've only been back once since, I feel a deep connection as many people do with the city of their birth. Recently, last week in fact, I needed a birth certificate and sent a request for one to state of Texas. I received it just the other day. Now, looking at the fresh, newly printed document, and seeing my name and "El Paso" on it, I feel a twinge of emotion.
I've never been to Dayton, but when the number 9 appeared in news accounts for the number of victims, I remembered the Charleston 9. Another difficult memory.
El Paso and Dayton you're in my thoughts but not in a hollow way - I support, more than ever, getting the killing machines off the streets.
52
@Thucydides The Republican Party supports killing machines. Since the 1960s, almost all sensible gun
control legislation has been thwarted by the Republican Political Machine.
One piece of legislation passed in 1994, forbidding assault weapon manufacture, but only after the Republicans got a Sunset Clause included. Yes, the Republican Party supports killing machines.
2
Trump is a little 3 year old boy playing with matches.
He tosses out an insult or a slur or a wouldn't it be lovely to rough up the protesters and watches his little fires glow and flare. Usually, the matches just burn out, but every so often they catch and burn, like in El Paso and most likely Dayton.
Then Trump is horrified!
How can that happen? Trump meant no harm.
Just a little something to warm up the crowd, keep his followers excited.
Trump will deny any responsibility, his words are just harmless words, only sick people would think he actually meant anything he said!
And tomorrow, or the next day, Trump will return to lighting his matches, see if anything catches. His little fires are so much fun.
Till the next match catches, and another angry white male picks up a gun and heads out to do Trump's bidding.
All those very fine people.
What they have in common is Trump.
19
@D. DeMarco
Were you not equally horrified when Congressman Scalise and his aides were shot by an Obama/Hillary supporter at a baseball game? What about when antifa attacks journalists and other peaceful protestors?
Or does the rhetoric of namecalling and denigration only count when it's perpetrated by the other party?
Do not insult 3 year olds. Trump is a mentally ill, insecure, miserable old man whose need for chaos to silence the voices in his head that tell him he is useless and that nobody loves him is making this country as mentally sick as he is. Sadly, Republicans and conservatives continue to enable him, our country will only get worse. No comments or posts or thoughts and prayers will change anything as long as our fellow Americans continue to vote for those repulsive and repugnant conservative and Republican Trump enablers. This is up to Kentucky, Missouri, Pensilvania, Florida, Texas and every other red state who is still failing to see the true face of the party they blindly support.
I’d like to see more coverage of details how gunmen get their guns and at which stage we can make the regulation works
5
No one is shocked unless they've been living under a rock for the last 20 years. No one is bewildered unless they haven't read a newspaper for the last 20 years.
What we are is nauseated. Sick and tired. #EnoughisEnouch.
What do we do? Twitter tags, mostly. Oh yes and Thoughts and Prayers.
18
@Sharon
Thoughts and prayers. And background checks. All supremely helpful. All equally intelligent.
Republican House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy said that the shootings were caused by video games and social media. Can't the republican party do better than that? That's all they got?
15
@scott k.
Answers are: No. Yes.
1
Why would you expect anything different from them? As long as the NRA and the gun manufacturing lobby will keep writing them checks, these people, Republicans and conservatives, do not care. They have forsaken any human decency, honesty and basic values for a check.
America is fast becoming the evolution of madness. Trump arrived beyond reason but there were many mass shootings before him. It seems like such a long time ago. Chaos will do that for you, mess with your memories.
This is different. Somehow through Trump’s racist yammering dangerous events have escalated, yet it’s impossible to prove he’s the cause.
But you feel it, right? Things have changed, gotten worse and the 60 million dollars the NRA donated to his campaign is connected, at the very least philosophically, to the dried blood on the ground and in the malls and the endless tears that will follow.
The inability for Americans to change gun control laws is the foundation of rot in its children’s dreams.
Don’t expect an exceptional speech from President Trump today. It will be a flamethrower of deflection and insincerity’s smug, false humility.
How horrendous this all is.
13
The core of the problem is the #Moscow Mitch and now, #Massacre Mitchs of the World. This man refuses to allow hearings on meaningful gun legislation and also allow hearings on Russians stealing our elections....
This callous person who is so partisan. The future of our young people are now literally at stake, and he will reap the rewards of the N.R.A. and win Kentucky again.
So sad.
17
Our government is owned by the wealthy and powerful who feel safe from this insanity and who can still make money from selling guns to an ignorant population. The NRA owns many members of congress and is worshiped by this president.
So what individual citizens are currently feeling does not matter and nothing substantive will be done, particularly with Republicans in control of the government.
Wake up America. Your government does not really care about you at all and nothing makes that clearer than their lack of action on curbing gun violence.
5
Wow...
What a weekend as we live through more violence , not only a horrible destructive moment...but a trend that is showing an increasingly ugly , nasty reality, in an even more dangerous direction. It’s not just a news event anymore . It is a national trend.
No , DJT did not pull the trigger. For sure that will be the reasoning for why he isn’t blamed by half the country’s electorate. However..he is in the most prominent position in our government..and like it or not when he talks and tweets it matters. DJT and his administration give a pseudo-legitimacy to the people that propagate hate and these kinds of crimes. Unfortunate but true. Fear and hate are an easy way to stoke popularity as a leader. It has been done over decades and centuries , time and time again among dictators and some of the worst villains in our history. Anyone that ignores history is forced to relive it...and here we have DJT and his hateful, pathological rhetoric.
Our country is diverse, large and has its problems. Our government representatives clearly spend too much time arguing
about each other , and not enough time handling the real issues. No matter how controversial the problems or compromises. Although he is not the sole cause of our failures, for sure, .....Trump clearly makes the situation worse with almost every interview, statement and tweet. He didn’t pull a trigger...but he opens up the direction for others. SHAMEFUL
8
The stockpiling of ammo and weapons and their militarization is the work of a white lower-middle class in response to the black rioting and civil rights marches of the late 60's, not the machinations of the NRA bogeyman.
Civil rights, busing and welfare simply fueled same and it's the left they blame. Period.
3
New Zealand. That’s all folks.
4
@Wendy...Philippines...where I go every summer? There is ZERO crime. Zilch. Maybe a road accident from time to time...but no crime. Nada.
Soon.
I just want to live.
In Hong Kong, people are demonstrating/rioting in part over the police's use of tear gas, rubber bullets, and physical force. With my jaded-US persceptive, I keep thinking how lucky they are that no "lone wolf" or "supremacist" or "mentally ill person with access" has shot them yet.
Twenty plus years of mass shootings will do this to you.
5
Look, at the foundation of this nation the founding fathers permit private citizens to obtain an possess top of the line military weaponry.
And that right has been sanctioned as the Second Amendment.
And as America moves to becoming like Communist Sweden, the patriots of America need military weapons to fight the police and American military forces.
Or maybe it's for the zombies.
Mr. Trump and some of the leadership in Congress don’t seem to understand what these military assault weapons can do in a couple of minutes. Can somebody organize for them a quick visit to El Paso’s crime scene ASAP?
1
I wish the senators defending the NRA had to each and personally explain to families who’ve lost loved ones in these atrocities why the second amendment is more important to defend than their children.
7
Some action clearly needs to be taken. I feel a reasonable step would be to define additional categories of weapons that would require annual registration. And, some verifiable reason for gun ownership should be required--proof the owner is a hunter, engages in competitive shooting, etc. If the registration is not renewed annually, the weapon should be surrendered to authorities or confiscated. Possession of an unregistered weapon should be a serious crime.
3
Sadly another calamity dispatched off by pious words from those who could do something about it but won’t. Perhaps democracy has outlived its usefulness when the people’s elected representatives can shun their mandates to represent their constituents without fear of consequences. Looks like 2020 might be a lot more than perfect hindsight.
2
@Marcel Kreis Please, lets be clear. It is not all elected representatives. It is Republican legislators who shun their responsibility. This is not an equal responsibility.
4
@Laurence Carbonetti
On the contrary, any Democrat and/or Democratic presidential candidate who uses this tragedy to score political points should be barred from politics.
Your title indicates that our nation is "bewildered" over this latest edition of gun violence. Bewildered? No. We've come to expect carnage. I am surprised when a day goes by without these horrific slaughters. The totally illogical response of the gun lobby and Trump is that this is a mental illness issue, not a gun issue. If people with the type of mental illness that causes them to shoot people didn't have guns, then they couldn't shoot people. What part of that do the gun lovers not get? As long as Trump continues to strike fear and anger into people convincing them that immigrants of color are the enemy, it's open season and will only get worse. Our best hope is at the ballot box (hoping that it's not rigged) where we can realize gun control measures by voting in a Democratic president, Senate, and House. Republicans are in the back pocket of the gun lobby so as long as they are in control, the gun lobby will dictate the ground rules: hands off owners of firearms, regardless if they are hand guns or military grade assault weapons. Distort the intention of the 2nd Amendment for their own ends.
16
Why would anyone be bewildered about this. Not only have mass shootings been a problem for a long time now in America, but we now have a president who stokes the very fears and anxiety that these white males are feeling and prompt them to commit these acts. I have heard many, many pundits talking about Trump's rhetoric and saying that it is going to lead to tragedy. I'm not the least bit bewildered. As for a cause, I think we can look to Reaganomics, aka Trickle-down economics. You create a society in which the vast majority of people struggle to get by, that stress leads to these things and men, esp., looking for scapegoats because they can't provide properly for their families. Until we break Reaganomics, things will only continue this way, and with the likes of Trump and his base - the very people feeling that economic rage and anxiety - only get worse.
12
Both of these shooters had histories of known hate rhetoric, with the Dayton shooter apparently expressing a desire to rape and kill. it's time to start arresting gun sellers and charging them with manslaughter when they have clearly not done a thorough background check. They become complicit, and with the threat of arrest and incarceration for manslaughter, perhaps gun sellers will do more due diligence before selling guns to people who have stated openly that they want to rape and kill people. Or will they just say it's free speech so they can have a gun? Keep documents of the background check performed, both to protect the gun seller and to condemn. Still, it's all a bandage. The cause is much deeper and is economic.
3
Crazy people shooting other people is a terrible thing. But the media is pouring gas on the situation - Cory Booker even said "Trump is responsible."
Not to minimize the situation, but let's keep some perspective:
Over 34,000 people were killed in automobiles last year (102 per day).
49 people shot and 6 people killed by guns in Chicago last weekend alone.
5
@99percent
So...what's your number? How many people have to be mowed down by assault rifles before the "perspective" changes?
Yes, many more deaths from auto accidents, but imagine if lawmakers hadn't cracked down on drunk-driving laws years ago. No doubt that 34,000 number you listed would be much higher.
Without assault rifles how many would have died in El Paso, Dayton, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, Virginia Beach, Thousand Oaks, Parkland, and on and on and on AND WHERE NEXT? AND HOW MANY MORE?
1
@99percent
It's hard to understand the lack of outrage over the equivalent of a mass killing on any weekend in Chicago. Is it because they cannot be attributed to "white nationalism"? Is it because democrats are actually responsible for these cities? Is it because they cannot be blamed on Trump?
If the republicans in congress won’t engage with common sense gun safety laws after twenty kindergartners were shot dead in cold blood they most certainly will not blink about this as they repeat the republican mantra “thoughts and prayers”. But you can bet NRA donations to dirty politicians will be on the rise. Each one who excepts this blood money should be publicly spot lighted.
8
@J Clark
It would be brutal, but it's time they showed the pictures of what these bullets do to human flesh, in all it's color and gore.
Until that's done, it's just a concept. "Joe Blow got shot at the music festival."
We hear long descriptions of the type of gun, the magazine size, the bullet caliber.
Time to show ripped torn flesh, exploded heads, children with thier guts hanging out, blood soaked diapers.
This has GOT to stop. You can bet someone is plotting RIGHT NOW to do it again, and beat the highest body count to date. Maybe next weekend. Maybe at YOUR grocery store in aisle six. Maybe in church. Or first day of grammar school.
SHOW THE CARNAGE and stop with the flowers, teddy bears, hearts and prayers.
1
The only thing I’m bewildered about is the insanity of the NRA and its supporters who believe more guns are the answer to counter the violence.
Texas is a liberal gun law state. Did any of those gun toting citizens stop the shooting? No.
Ohio is a liberal gun law state. Same question. Same answer.
Nevada?
Florida?
When will this end and sanity prevail?
8
What’s the use of candles, wreaths and prayers without some concrete action ? How long you afford to be passive and mute spectators ?
6
@Sivaram Pochiraju
As long as ALL politicians fight tooth and nail to get into Congress where they do NOTHING for years and collect a big fat salary and perks.
ALL of them. Useless people all.
We need to ban the assault weapon and make it illegal to own one. Period. I’m sick of the talk of the gun as a right. It is a people killer and anyone who owns one has to see it as such.
8
Bewildered about two more shootings I am not. The only thing I find bewidering is the blind refusal of our elected representatives and president in Washington to pass legislation banning the assault rifles. The total silence from Republican senators and congressional reps is deafening.
4
In a country armed to the teeth and consumed by fear, hatred and racism, no one should be surprised by the shootings over the past twenty-four hours or so. Nor should anyone be surprised that they are being fanned by a dangerous demagogue President in the White House. The only question is: when can we expect the next ones? Certainly, they won't be long in coming.
7
Headline should be "US Voters and Lawmakers allow Killings to Continue. El Paso and Dayton hit this time."
One failed shoe bombing and we all have to take our shoes off at the airport. Twenty first graders were gunned down at school in 2012 and nothing changed in our habits, practices, or laws despite parent's and state-level efforts. The killings no longer shock me. America's complicity does.
At first the gunman came for the teenagers at high school and college, and we did nothing. Then the gunman came for the little children, and we did nothing. Then the gunman came for the concert goers and the people dancing at the club. Now the gunman comes to people running errands on Saturday.
We have let this became America.
16
Exactly. The blatantly unpatriotic and unconstitutional 'Patriot' act has taken away our rights while a rabidly right-wing SCOTUS invented 2nd Amendment rights that didn't exist and allows almost anyone with a grudge to go out and buy wespons designed to kill as many people as possible.
1
In America it is now dangerous to be in a crowd, go to the grocery store, let our children play outdoors, sit on our front porch or take a walk. In “the land of the free” we have lost our freedom!
Nor will get it back till we rid ourselves of racists like Trump, rid ourselves of the Wild West NRA and establish the sensible kind of gun laws that sensible countries already have.
11
I hate to say it but is seems America is anything but stunned. Again and again you let this happen and absolutely nothing changes. Everytime I read you all complaining about the Republicans, but this is your country too. If you really want to change what is happening you have to do more than complain and wait for the next elections. STAND UP for once and show those fools in Congress that America truly has had enough.
12
Gun violence will end when enough people that Republicans care about die by gun violence. Unfortunately, Republicans don’t care about anyone.
13
The violence in America is getting worse and worse. The most realistic solution is to leave and move to a better country.
10
I am convinced that the 2nd amendment has failed as a social experiment. As a society, we have to come to terms with this failure. As an ex.Marine, I am quite competent with guns, but I choose not to have them in my life. I am all too aware of their deadly capability, and I have seen more than enough violence for my lifetime.
The only answer I see is repeal of the second amendment. There are no viable arguments for militias in this day and age, and gun ownership itself reflects a deep psychological inadequacy. We see this psychological inadequacy every single day in the new!
16
The cult of gun ownership is a pandemic in the U.S.
Perhaps it's time for corporations like Walmart to use their leverage in the interests of their customers to stop selling guns and sign on to assault rifle bans and other measures MOST Americans favor. Surely it has more power than the NRA, and given its vital role in small town America it's not as if the NRA can launch a boycott.
7
I live in the rural South, and I hunt. I own a rifle (not a semiauto), and I’ve been disgusted by the lack of action on sensible gun control for years.
The gun enthusiasts with whom I speak always stress the phrase, “it’s my right.” When I press them on what they want to do with their guns, they most commonly speak of recreational activities. We are putting recreation above life and safety.
Here’s my proposal: Require background checks, training, and mental health screening for initial purchases of firearms. All firearms must be stored in secure facilities and checked out for use. Anyone who wants to keep their guns at home 24/7 has to go through additional screening, training, and regular mental health checks.
12
I'm afraid the only people 'stunned' are the media. This is bound to happen. And keep happening. Fan the flames of racial division, as 45 keeps doing and you'll just see more of this. Can the flames of 'freedom living gun owners' and this is what you'll see happening. It is only when a few republican senators or some other elected republican officials are hit by bullets, that you *may* see the beginnings of a change in sentiment vis a vis the second amendment. Until then, blaze on (and my heart cries for the country where I've chosen to become a citizen).
5
I’ve often wondered how the admittedly great minds of the founding fathers would recommend for the current situation. I think they would only say “We already told you - amend the Constitution”. If we responded by saying voter demographics make that impossible they’d say “Too bad, change their minds”.
Americans have changed their minds about a lot of things, including some really big ones like slavery and women’s rights. But it took a long time. Sadly I don’t think I have enough years left to see any major shift in attitudes on this issue. I hope that as younger generations come along they have the courage and vision to address this one.
4
@John Vance
Someone should have told you. The Equal Rights Amendment died. We are not yet equal. And I know full well that I won't live long enough to be set free.
"Bewildered?" I'm not bewildered by mass shootings anymore. I expect them. So does everyone else. I also expect complete paralysis in our government towards doing anything at all about them.
3
To operate a car (potentially a lethal weapon), you need to pass competency tests, get a photo ID, register the vehicle, pay an ongoing fee, and maintain insurance protecting others against any harm you might cause to person or property. You need to carry proof of registration, insurance, identity, and permit to drive, whenever operating the vehicle. For trucks (potentially more lethal), the bar is even higher.
IMHO, we should institute these requirements (at least) for guns, which are intentionally lethal weapons.
7
Nope, not stunned, not bewildered. We have all the data we need to explain this. We know the political landscape that’s enabling this. We have common sense solutions to minimize this. I’m so cynical now with this uniquely American crisis that my bewilderment will only happen when we come together and make change. Not going to hold my breath. And at some point you throw in the towel on this “great” country and move to brighter, safer, saner shores.
2
The only voice that is listened to in Washington is the one that represents cash. Walmart is lossing sales. I myself am deterred from going to such stores. This will effect the bottom line of the one percent and has the greatest chance of causing gun control legislation.
The peaceful alternatives of systematic boycotting of select stores or just stopping or slowing purchases falls flat. People don't act cognitively, coherently, effectively en masse. They act or stop acting (buying) via fear only. But the upshot is to make them less fearful, so they can get back to supermarkets and bars.
1
Lockheed Martin. Boeing. Raytheon. Northrop Grumman. General Dynamics.
The largest military budget in the world and wars of aggression that never end.
Kids encouraged to play shoot-em-up videogames.
Most of our box office movies are centered around violence (super hero movies, star wars, etc).
Our favorite sport is football.
Our culture celebrates competition and violence and denigrates cooperation and pacifism.
Should anyone really be "bewildered" about why these things happen here?
5
It only takes a couple of thousand deaths for us to realize civilian automatic guns should be outlawed.
The constitution was written at a time where the public was charged to maintain the nation. Those times have past.
All fire arms must be removed from the general population.
It's not just the mass shootings we worry about it's the everyday hundreds of gun killings we see but don't care.
It deems pretty clear to me that the theory of another poster below is spot-on : a main reason why no gun-control laws will ever be passed despite horrifying disaster after horrifying disaster is that Americans have become addicted to using them as an opportunity to feel like a community, pulling together and experiencing a fellow-feeling in this era of disaffection and no one knowing their neighbours any more. Mass shootings are increasingly being regarded as predictable natural disasters instead of preventable crimes.
2
has anybody here watched a contemporary movie out of hollywood these days.the violence is nonstop.human are killed off by the thousands while onlookers eat popcorn.we live in a declining culture and the triumph of bad taste, the arts the medi the tatooed and the toothless.not stopping anytime soon.
1
If Trump is serious that "hate has no place in our country and we are going to take care of it" and that "a lot of things are in the works" then he should be on the first plane, train or automobile OUT of the country. I suggest anywhere that takes him south of the border, preferably Honduras.
5
I don't think the nation is bewildered by gun violence. I think the nation is bewildered by leaders' inability or unwillingness to take action.
10
I thought after Newtown that we'd finally end the epidemic of gun violence. Even President Obama thought so. But, the Republicans and the N.R.A. said, "No!" We just need "good guys with guns." Then I thought after Parkland with those amazing young adults speaking bravely through their anguish and their tears that the day had finally come. And once again, the Republicans and the gun lobby stood silently by with flags lowered as the bodies were lowered. Now am I to hope that this is the moment; this is the "tipping point;" this is finally the time when Americans will force the Republican political class and their N.R.A. cheerleader, Donald Trump, to relent; to wash the blood off their hands and finally stop protecting the gun manufacturers and start doing what they were elected to do--protect us and our loved ones. I am begging Nancy Pelosi to call the House back into emergency session to pass an omnibus gun safety (even though two such bills currently are gathering dust on Mitch McConnell's desk). It's time for our political leaders to lead, and if not for the American voters to hold them to account in November 2020. We have the power to end this; we must use it.
6
“hate has no place in our country, and we are going to take care of it.” He said that “a lot of things are in the works.”
This coming from the hatemeister. Maybe Trump needs to put down Twitter. This morning he already tweeted about gun safety legislation but tying it to immigration. So I guess if he can't abolish chain migration there would be no legislation on gun safety? Those assault weapons should have no place in modern society. Even the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that localities could regulate the types of guns people can own. This is why these types of guns are banned in New York. But politicians in other states pretend that people should be able to own any type of gun they desire.
4
I went on to 8Chan after the shootings to see how people talked on there - which more people should do to understand how people are communicating - and what I found more concerning than the predictable and stale racist tropes that are as old as the hills, was that even among the many people on there who actually saw the shooting as bad, or rather not good enough (the twisted and confused reasonings were hard to follow but went something along the lines of the wrong ethnic group being targeted or a weak, poorly manifestoed white supremacy being exercised) the more concerning aspect in my view was that literally 'owning the libs' at any cost was the best outcome of any event. Information/disinformation was being excitedly spread that the gunman may have had a left rather than right political 'ideology'. I found that more shocking in many ways than the racism, the US is literally at war with itself, you are currently in the grips of a barely contained domestic American Cold War, where any event is justified as long as political points are scored, and your politicians are themselves turning more extreme. What are you going to do about all the guns when this trend turns more widely violent than it already is?
3
The NYT comment boards have their fair share of users like that: Essentially a core of a dozen or two that defend Donald Trump reflexively and blame the Dems for his behavior or any terrible event or atrocity committed by the right. The entire purpose of these commenters, many of whom post so often they appear to be jobless or at most, nickel-a-post trolls, is to peddle right wing propaganda/white nationalist rhetoric in any circumstance. They know throwing right wing toxic waste around inflicts pain on good people and that’s why they do it. It’s how powerless, unremarkable, unimportant people delude themselves into believing they’re not.
1
Regarding “bewildered”
Certainly not bewildered about why this is happening. Too many guns, too powerful guns. Perhaps bewildered about why nothing is being done? No, just look at political donations from the NRA, and that is not bewildering, either.
1
Repeal and replace the 2nd amendment. Technology has rendered it obsolete.
2
Addressing the festering problem of mass killings by gunmen can not be addressed unless we accurately name it. These tragic incidents are not mere "attacks" or "shootings"; they are evidently 'terrorist attacks". Editorial copy is the first step. Then I am sure even NRA members will agree to ensure that home grown terrorists do not have access to automatic guns and high capacity magazines.
3
You're wrong, we haven't become "nearly numb" to it, we've become accustomed to republicans in DC doing nothing to protect us. The entire lot of them is owned by the NRA and the gun lobby.
They've already blamed it on violent video games, not enough guns, mental health, etc., etc. Never mind these things all exist in other countries yet we have 240 more mass shootings this year then all the other countries combined.
1
I am afraid I can’t understand why people are surprised. Divisive political rhetoric plus easy public access to weapons designed for the military that can fire 600 rounds a minute means perhaps it’s more surprising this doesn’t happen every day. 600 bullets a minute means no matter if every man woman and child was armed in “self defence” (possibly the dream of the NRA) someone would die. Until The US can get off its obsession with easy access to guns it will continue to murder its own with ease.
1
Republican response: prayers and wishes. I am praying and wishing trump is impeached.
2
Can anyone explain why a civilian would need a gun with a 100-round magazine? How can such a thing be legal to sell?
2
The NRA's mantra is "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." El Paso is an 'open carry' town in an 'open carry' state. WalMart is the largest gun retailer in America.
I'm curious how many of the hundreds of people in the store and parking lot were armed. Odds are at least a few people were carrying loaded weapons. It's exciting to fantasize about being a hero, but, when real bullets start flying everybody runs or hides. More guns don't make us safer. They only feed the fantasy.
You would have to walk around every day carrying equal fire power - a fully loaded assault weapon with a high capacity magazine - to be prepared to respond in kind. Even police don't go through their day like that. We are not citizen soldiers.
People kill people, but assault weapons with high capacity magazines enable a killer to massacre dozen of people in seconds. Yes, a killer could make a bomb instead; but, that's a lot of work, plus you have to learn how. Nothing is easier than simply acquiring a big gun and lots of ammo.
Background checks can limit sales to law abiding citizens. But, everyone is a law abiding citizen - right up until they're not.
Yes, it is people that kill people, but 'supply and demand' and 'the 2nd amendment' are no excuse to offer up weapons of war that increase the bloodshed exponentially. When will we finally ban the weapons and high capacity magazines that slaughter innocent people across the country?
4
Well, I am not going to give up my guns, there's too many madmen to do so. I saw this statistic and it made me sad, that 20% of millenials don't have a single friend. Fix that and you've solved the problem.
It is way past time to repeal the Second Amendment.
3
I’m going to disagree with the prognosis by the commenters. While it seems dark right now, there is hope. Change is coming due to (among others) Shannon Watts and Mom’s Demand, Gabby Giffords, research funded by Bloomberg and Johns Hopkins, and the too many to count informed commenters and activists who are daily pressuring the political class to act using research based, fact based measures. Witness the recent implosion of the NRA which seemed invulnerable not long ago. Most people, including most gun owners, want to implement sensible regulations that will save lives. And it will happen. Not soon enough, of course, but we are moving forward and must keep pushing.
3
At Walmart, the official company policy regarding open carry is that customers are allowed to bring visible handguns into the store, but that store staff are responsible for verifying that the customer has a proper license for the weapon.
Can we please stop claiming that mass shootings always happen in gun free zones? Banning assault style weapons is a winning issue for Democrats, let's get moving and do something.
11
What say we begin by publishing the amount of campaign contributions received by every member of Congress from the NRA in their last campaign?
Why do we persist in not acknowledging that the vast amounts of money in which our political system is awash - money with which policy is daily bought and sold - is the single most pernicious contributor to the awful governance to which our country is subjected?
The gun issue is only one of countless areas where our system is being contorted out of all effectiveness, common sense and decency.
Get the money out of politics or nothing - nothing - will change. And America will die.
7
It's insane that our gun laws are an incomprehensible mosaic of laws which utterly fail in their mission to deter gun violence. This is on both parties, Democrats and Republicans.
What we need is FEDERAL GUN CONTROL which requires that all guns be issued Certificates of Title like with cars, that they be Federally registered, and that gun owners be required to maintain liability insurance with high deductibles to indemnify people harmed by their guns. Limit the number of guns that people may own to some reasonable number.
Like with cars, require prospective gun owners to demonstrate proficiency and mental competence plus impose strict, vicarious liability upon gun owners for their direct or otherwise negligent conduct in connection with their guns.
As far as bullets go, the eggs I buy are imprinted with a traceable code. Do that with bullets so we know who is buying them and in what quantity.
This will not eliminate all gun violence but it will cut it back and provide at least some compensation for victims. As far as I can see, none of this in any way conflicts with that pesky 2d Amendment which would, of course, stay in full force and effect.
What we have now, a patchwork of gun legislation in 50 states, is ineffectual. You can still get a gun in a state with lax firearms laws and take it anywhere you want. If states, to meet their own needs, want to impose laws that are more stringent than the Feds, like with booze and drugs, fine.
14
The Second Amendment was passed in 1791 when rifles were muskets, and took about 15-30 seconds to reload. Just some perspective here for all of the 2nd Amendment fans.
17
When Reagan was shot, Congress passed the Brady Bill in response. This Congress did not extend it and let it pass. Years ago after a shooting on the LIRR Carolyn McCarthy, widowed from the shooting resolved to change Congress and did so by running for office. She won and the NYT wrote in 1996 of Carolyn McCarthy:
“In her loss, Mrs. McCarthy found a mission. She became an anti-gun activist whose simple questions tested the complications surrounding the issue. Why do ordinary citizens need assault weapons? Why are guns so easy to obtain? She was earnest rather than slick, and her message carried resonance.”
Those days are behind us and now our Congress, or our GOP led Senate asks no questions and takes no action - they have betrayed us and innocent blood is on their hands.
4
I'm not sure why the headline to this article refers to a "Bewildered Nation" . . . no one seems bewildered about these tragedies. It is rather, "I told you so." The NRA and its political pawns have primary responsibility here - the obvious first step is to ban assault weapons. Until that happens, no one is bewildered about the consequences.
7
If the argument for Americans Constitutional second amendment rights includes the right for civilians to own and use high-capacity magazines, does it include the individual right to own and use tanks, grenades and weapons of mass destruction too? Where do second amendment people draw the line?
If they won’t allow sober and civic-minded efforts to protect the public health from the threat of rapid and mass death by taking military weapons from civilians, why should they not also allow civilians to have tanks, grenades, nuclear and chemical weapons?
If allowing civilians nuclear and chemical weapons is a line too far for them, then they are admitting there is a line. Sadly, they won’t see the logic of the argument that if they admit to that line, then their whole “no gun regulation” defense because it violates their constitutional rights has absolutely no merit.
8
As long as we have a political divide defined by the NRA this will never be fixed. The carnage of mass shootings are directly abetted by the availability of these military style weapons and high capacity magazines and we absolutely know this. The fires are lit by hate radio and Fox News and fanned by 4chan and 8chan and dozens of other hate filled social media sites that egg each other on. Whether against immigrants, minorities or women - the aggrieved are encouraged and cheered on by their fellows on those sites.
The NRAs response in the past has been the "good guy with a gun" fantasy. We just watched a mass shooting in Texas, one of the most heavily armed states. A state where, if anywhere, that mantra would have proven itself - it didn't now did it. That was always a fantasy pushed by people who'd never been shot at. We need to face up to the truth that these weapons need to be off the street and out of private hands. Nothing less will suffice.
215
@AnObserver
Things won't change because mass shootings are good for business, and we have a government for corporations, not people. It's good for gun sales. It's good for cable news ratings. It's even good for the medical business (the victims still get billed). It's good for the surveillance industry. It's good for professional politicians who like to hawk fear / 'freedom'.
It's bad for peaceful civil society, but where's the profit in that?
10
@AnObserver
We still play out a communal adolescent cowboy fantasy as a country. What an ironic juxtaposition that we claim rights to gun ownership to ostensibly 'protect us from the gov't,' while at the same time electing a wanna-be-tyrant as president. Maybe the 'Founders' made a mistake when they allowed the 2nd amdmt, and surely the Supreme Court misinterpreted massively in allowing individual rights to arms, which the amdmt does not say.
5
@AnObserver
The Right/Left divide was actually defined during the French Revolution, when those that wanted a King sat on the Right and those that wanted a Constitution to put the ultimate power in the hands of the People, sat on the Left.
The Right is for people who are not brave enough to live in a messy democracy, where all people are political equals, and follow a Constitution that not only gives them rights but the responsibility to ensure the rights of all other Americans.
Trump proves that the right still wants a king. That is Trump's ideology. He wants to give the right their king.
Look at the judges on the Right, who are supposed to follow the Constitution, but instead invent a "unitary executive" that is immune from oversight by the other branches. Trump is essentially refusing all congressional oversight, and has said that he can interpret the Constitution, instead of the Supreme Court.
Trump has said he can decide who is a citizen by executive order.
Trump demands personal loyalty from public servants. This is called fealty, and is feature of feudalism.
Trump calls for violence without due process.
He talks about being president for life, or "king."
The Right wants to MAKE AMERICA GROVEL AGAIN.
They think America was great when it was a colony.
Political assassinations and mass murder are the techniques of kings, not presidents.
The Left wants democracy. The Right wants to enslave minorities, but treat the whites far better, by making them debt peons.
14
When I was in my 20's (now 70 years old) I belonged to a group called Gun Control Inc. Back then we really believed that comon sense regulation was possible. Then the NRA managed to turn the discussion from safety to "our freedom". Charlton Heston became the spokesman and Ronald Reagan was elected. What two better representatives of the square jawed all American macho man could there have been? How many of you recall Reagan's films and his Death Valley Days TV show? He was always patriotic and the problems were generally solved with guns. Reagan was shot and did nothing about weapons control, for heavens sake.
As many readers have pointed out, when the children of Newton were slaughtered nothing happened. Why should we believe that it will happen now, with the current group in D.C.?
2020 is our opportunty to vote NRA funded senators and representatives out of Congress. This is urgent for so many reasons, and means that we need massive voter turnout next year. The alternative is to give up hope, which I do not want to do. Vote. Please.
30
@Helen
The NRA has gone from promoting sport shooting safety to promoting proliferation of gun sales. How that happened I don’t know. Mr Heston and Pres Reagan weren’t mental giants and thus became unwitting shills of a greedy industry and extremist mindset that plagues is today.
2
We have laws against drugs, they exist and kill people everyday. We have laws against drunk driving, however people are killed every day this way. Never mind the endless other weapons that can be used as a substitute, and are used every day and kill people. Its a wonderful utopian view of the world that we should live in a violent free world,eating cotton candy and ice cream in the park, but it's a fantasy. Criminals, the insane....and generally bad people find a way to beat the system. The focus has to be not just on weapons, but the root cause of this ideology and go after these people in our community at large. Everyone screams privacy is most important, but after a mass killing we find a whole trail of social media interactions like a Hansel and Gretel bread crumb trail that nobody acts on, usually because we fear monitoring, tracking or the pc culture of calling people out when we see something wrong but socially and legally may have consequences. take the burden off the door good types....so they can report, respond and take action to prevent horrible things.
These disturbed individuals don't live in a bubble, someone always knows or suspects something. The question is how do we act on this which is likely to generate the best results ......not some new law......laws that are designed and adhered to by normal people and criminals don't really care about.
If only passionate candidates like Elizabeth Warren, Bernie, and Inslee would choose gun control as the fight and first priority.
7
The rest of the world just can't understand you when it comes to guns. As the BBC correspondent said on the 10 o'clock news last night "the chances of anything changing because of these latest attacks is precisely zero."
388
@Will Hide: It's easy to understand. Compared to the UK, the USA's fall has been much faster. Now it's no longer a first-world country, and culturally is no longer a peer of Europe, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc. It's more like Honduras, the Congo, or Syria. The USA has an authoritarian regime and a violent populace.
47
@Will Hide
WE don't understand why anyone and everyone can have a gun.
What we do understand is that Donald Trump wants to be relected and he fully understands that a vote of his in favor of leaving guns in the hands of ordinary wanna-pretend-they're brave buckskiners is probably worth at least two more votes for him [YOU don't think the majority of American wives is gonna get away with not voting for DAS Donalt when the hubby heads to the voting box, do you, dear world observers?].
6
@Heike Korošec
Add to that, this country’s long history of violence against minorities, especially the lynching of blacks and present-day police killings of unarmed blacks.
Even today, there are suspected lynchings of blacks which the police quickly and improbably dismiss as suicides.
All of this is compounded by white verbal aggression/insults towards blacks and other minorities ; white reports to the police over everyday lawful behaviors of minorities, mostly blacks; and everyday police harassment of blacks who are just driving or walking down the street.
There is a hateful mess here in the US
9
The question is not will it happen again but when will it happen again? Not too many years ago such acts were rare, but not any longer. There are so many reasons. Too easy access to the many many guns in our country. An insistence from a loud audience that almost anyone should be able to possess any firearm and ammunition out there. The hate and anger that so many have. A President whose rhetoric is filled with vitriol. Such venom does have an effect. Words from certain sources matter more than others. Where do we go from here? Actually it's up to the American people. Do Americans have what it takes to reverse this perversity?
11
@Billy. I am a working American and I am a democrat. My whole extended family are workers and democrats. And we are not alone. You are very incorrect dems are not working class Americans.
1
"Stunned?" Who's stunned out there? Raise your hands...no one? I thought so.
37
The Dayton shooting was an incident waiting to happen. The shooter was identified and suspended from high school in 2012 for his making and keeping hit lists of people he wanted to kill and rape lists of those he wanted to molest. He was a troubled individual with mental health problems and should have been institutionalized and no amount of 'gun laws and background checks' would have stopped him for he was not in the system. Guns are not the problem; mental health is along with the number of illegal (stolen, smuggled) guns on the street is the problem.
5
It can be both. Better mental health treatments AND better gun regulations (bans, waiting periods, licensing and liability enforced across all 50 states) will lead to reductions of these tragedies.
2
Apparently then, no other country has serious mental illness. Just the US.
Is that why France, England and every other country has had almost no mass shootings this year, while the US has had nearly 250?
4
Actually the real problem is the people who insist that unfettered access to guns is more important than anything.
3
I was overcome with many feelings on Sunday morning including sorrow, frustration and loss. I was not bewildered. The spewing of hate and intolerance that have become acceptable and encouraged in this country, even at Presidential rallies, coupled with no meaningful gun control, logically lead to this result. The numbers have lost their shock value, now it is the elapsed time between events we measure. But have no fear, something big is in the works, just as soon as Double Bogey Don finishes his next round of golf.
20
“Bewildered”-no. Fed-up-yes!
19
Mr. Trump declared "hate has no place". Sure it does, it lives, breathes and grows in the White House, in Mr. Trump, in Mitch McConnell, in the entire GOP and in their supporters donors and voters and, of course, at Trump rallies. So don't tell me hate has no place Mr. President when you have been the flag bearer for hate your entire life. Hate has an ever expanding number of places Mr. Trump in large part thanks to you. Of all the lies you have told Mr. Trump, and all the lies that you will continue to tell, this one is amongst the most sickening, pernicious and deadly!
48
These shootings lay bare the absolute fallacy of the arm-ourselves-to-the-teeth mentality of gun owners. “If only those bar patrons had been armed, the shooter could have been stopped.” It was reported that he was stopped, thankfully, in less than a minute. Nevertheless, he was able to inflict mass carnage because of the GUN he was wielding. The fact that gun zealots and the NRA are unwilling to except any safety restrictions on their “toys” is depraved.
27
It’s the marketing that a gun can solve all your problems. Because of this marketing, individuals think it will solve their relationship problems, their beef with another guy problems, their often imagined problems with another group. From their comments the right to bear arms groups have also bought into this con.
1
“This American carnage stops right here and stops right now,” he said with great confidence.
7
“Shootings stun America”.
“Shootings stun absolutely no one in any other country in the rest of the world that has actually taken decisive action when a mass shooting has taken place”.
15
I do not want to hear Trump address the nation at 10 am today. He's already done his "addressing" and this is where we are.
26
Has Walmart issued any statement?
Are they going to do anything for the victims and their families?
7
Wal Mart Heirs, with all of their billions, at the least could put metal detectors and armed guards in all of their stores immediately. But we know they won’t.
1
@Ben
Sure they have. “The blue light special today is ...”. Uh, wait, that’s K-Mart. No, I guess they haven’t.
1
Simple statistics shows that the states with more guns (Texas) has more such violence. Let's act to help save our future.
If we don't; then we're already under siege w/o a war..
8
“A bewildered nation”, are you kidding? If nothing substantive was done to prevent mass shootings after the slaughter of 5 year olds at Sandy Hook and after all the mass shootings that have followed, then it’s pretty clear that nothing will be done. The only change I’ve seen is that the language changes. For a few years the NRA and the other gun rights’ loyalists took up the mantra of “lone wolf” and how our gun violence was a result of mental health deficiencies. But when the rubber hit the road, not even tougher background checks got passed. So far this year, there have been 250 mass shootings and I just heard a pundit hint at the fact that maybe if we have more mass shootings and more people actually know someone affected or lost as a result, perhaps Americans will finally call for action. That is a sad commentary on Americans. Have we lost our empathy for our fellow man? Is our love of guns stronger than our love of human life? The Second Amendment needs to be read with common sense and an acknowledgement that the founding fathers could not and did not foresee the changes that would be made to weaponry. Americans must rediscover their souls and act to prevent further mass shootings. They most call on their elected leaders to ACT and to pass no-nonsense gun legislation immediately! Changing the language from “lone wolf” to “white supremacist extremists” will not save lives.
25
If these politicians were sincere, they would establish a federal fund to pay for the medical care of the victims in these shooting rampages especially considering our government's constitution protects the rights of gun ownership that does not require any kind of training, licensure or screening-- which to me, confers a level of liability.
7
@Kathy: "Well regulated" implies a high degree of training.
Stop thinking and praying.
Start gun control.
17
Bewildered? I think not....this is the outcome of years of policy by the far right gun crowd. We are not bewildered...we are angry and frustrated that our lives mean so little to those beholden to the gun lobby. We are frustrated that those in power are so in the pocket that massacre after massacre is ignored. Sandy Hook was supposed to be the low...then the next massacre, then the next...No other country suffers from this sickness. When will it end? When will those in power see their duty is to the people and not to those who have money?
18
@Susan M: The NRA was founded to assure that there would always be a cadre of youths who could shoot straight and train others for the wars the US is always entangled in.
1
i'm afraid it't too late. We can talk about limiting or banning guns, even if it's only the assault weapons that are responsible for so many of these horrific acts that are so plentiful in this country these days. My guess is that it is a matter of closing the barn door after the horse has escaped. There are so many guns, including assault weapons out there and in the hands of people determined to keep them at all costs, that it will take decades to get on top of the situation.
8
If it will take decades, then we better start now.
2
Definition of bewildered
: deeply or utterly confused or perplexed
poor word choice, the events of the weekend are not confusing or perplexing in the least, given the actions of the Don and the GOP.
24
Was just thinking the same thing. There is nothing confusing or bewildering about this.
14
When will the US realize that its division into states delivers only unequally protective laws favoring local pecuniary interests?
2
Regulating guns is different than banning them. We regulate other amendments to the constitution. We have regulations around Free speech for example. We cannot incite another to violence, nor yell Fire in a crowded theater. We cannot slander or libel people. We regulate freedom of the press with community related obscenity laws. We regulate freedom of religion with laws governing that parents do not have absolute freedom in regard to their children's health needs. We regulate how and where people can protest their grievances against the government. It is high time Congress, and in this case I single out Mitch McConnell to start moving gun regulation the Senate. When this happens all US Representatives should step up to the plate as well. Or, is money and staying in office more important than their fellow citizens' lives?
14
@Vicki From Vermont
As a Kentucky resident I’ve thought that Sen McConnell should replace the brachyopod as the state fossil. But here they use people like me for target practice so I don’t say it out loud.
1
I feel your frustration, anger, sense of outrage. I totally concur.........and I also get your instinctive analytics as they are the result of a clear thinking, self aware and hopeful look at meaningful ways of mitigation of a societal illness, among others, that’s hollowing out the very meaning of ,” a Democratic and Free Society “. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE............and push the candidates to take a stand !!!
@Vicki From Vermont: Guns are more important to them than their own lives. Steve Scalise took a bullet for the industry, and still supports it.
What's the point? We know the scenario all too well.
Even Australia could do it, with its own entrenched gun lobby. But we can't, in a country that owns more guns than the entire US armed forces.
My perspective as a retired psychotherapist/counselor, living happily in a very safe and civilized Europe, reveals a crumbling giant I have honored, loved and respected as it flails and sinks deeper into irrelevance around the world.
If the country can't even do this right, I despair about the US abject failure to lead the world out of the far more important climate change challenge about to test the future of mankind!
12
I was just reviewing the 2nd Amendment. I’m nobody’s idea of a lawyer but it only mentions “arms”. What about ammunition? We can’t ban ammunition, but can we place restrictions or licensing mandates on purchase and possession?
6
These acts do not stun this country. Nothing stuns this country
-- didn't Sandy Hook teach you that? The continued reelection of the Republican party, going all the way to the top (or bottom, in this case), should teach you that.
26
@December You may have forgotten that a Dem president was in office from 2008--20016. What did he do to stop mass murder?
My heart is broken for the victims and families and for my country.
1
The president provided great comfort and enlightenment when he tweeted that killing people is bad. I hadn’t thought of that. But he failed to note that a lot of murderers are fine people. Hopefully he will clarify that in a follow up comment.
I prostrate myself before the radiant glow of his astonishing insight and cognitive skills.
13
None of these shootings needed to happen.
First, a clear message and understanding that the cause of these mass shootings is due to a severe, largely unnoticed, and difficult to discuss systemic problem that is psychologically wired into our society. In most instances the individual at the root of these mass shootings has been labeled as an outcast by their fellow peers, due to prior incidents or events. Thus, a predetermined indication that the individual may be suffering from certain anti-social behaviors, fueled by hate towards certain ethnical groups, coupled with possible mental health issues; has been the dictum for the perpetrators of these atrocious and terrible incidents. Though the first two mentioned indicators have been prevalent in many of the recent mass shootings, it still does not give a proper and full representation to the many circumstances that causes an individual to make the choice to hurt or kill others.
Second, we as a society continue to fail at addressing, discussing, managing, and solving the deep racial divisions that continue to plague our country. Trump's comments about 'hate' in this article are completely hollow and shallow. Did he really make those statements after these two shootings? Or was it an alternative statement? FAIL.
Third, when the deliberate use of methods that effectively incite and instigate the divisiveness in our society is used, the cycle only perpetuates itself. Dems, GOP, and Independents alike are guilty of this.
Ugh...
1
"Back-to-Back Massacres Shake a Bewildered Nation"
Bewildered?
Sad, angry, enraged, frustrated, exaspirated, beyond exasperation, and words I can't think of now because I'm all of these things.
But bewildered? No.
When are we going to decide to end this national tragedy, this national embarrassment?
Step #1; Repeal the 2nd Amendment. It won't be easy and it won't happen quickly, but that must be the goal.
Step #2; End internet anonymity. One cannot drive a vehicle on the public highway without taking public responsibility by registering that vehicle, we should do the same on the public information highway. Every device using the internet should have a digital license plate traceable to the owner.
Freedom of speech does not allow one to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Anonymous hate speech on the internet is about the same thing.
13
Of course the feelings of the El Paso shooter predated Trump's election. Those feelings were one of the reasons some people voted for him. He says what they've been thinking.
7
How often have I heard "there are no easy solutions". Fine, but a solution is still needed. So lets look for a solution that is not easy and will work. The choices are probably more obvious than not. How about a sunset law to ban all guns? That way the fire armed public can be weaned off its addiction.
2
@CARL E No doubt. First, we need to wake up. The "solutions" that seem to gain the most traction after atrocities like these are expanding of gun rights. The thinking that's carrying the day when it comes to responses to mass murder is 'the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.'
1
How can America be stunned and bewildered? This happens all the time in America. The rest of the world isn’t stunned and bewildered - another day another mass shooting, par for the course ......
14
FWIW, if the current trend continues, there will be more mass shootings in the U.S. in the three years Herr Trump has been in office then there were in the previous 10 years before he was in office. Coincidence?
11
but alas there's "no room for hate" in our country, that is of course unless Stephen Miller and I drum it up for our own political purposes.
Miller and Trump dont care, in fact I'll bet they are strategizing how they can use this to incite more division and stoke more FEAR into the weak which as Kamala said is what predators do.
2
The only thing that the NRA and it’s bought-and-paid-for politicians care about is money, not the 2nd amendment. Start filing lawsuits against all of them. Can’t file against gun manufacturers? Hold McConnell and his ilk financially responsible and you’ll soon see changes. Hit them in the wallet.
8
None of these shootings needed to happen.
First, a clear message and understanding that the cause of these mass shootings is due to a severe, largely unnoticed, and difficult to discuss systemic problem that is psychologically wired into our society. In most instances the individual at the root of these mass shootings has been labeled as an outcast by their fellow peers, due to prior incidents or events. Thus, a predetermined indication that the individual may be suffering from certain anti-social behaviors, fueled by hate towards certain ethnical groups, coupled with possible mental health issues; has been the dictum for the perpetrators of these atrocious and terrible incidents. Though the first two mentioned indicators have been prevalent in many of the most recent shootings, it still does not give a proper, and full representation to the full circumstances that led the individual to make the choice to hurt or kill others.
Second, we as a society continue to fail at addressing, discussing, managing, and solving the deep racial divisions that continue to plague our country. Trump's comments about 'hate' in this article are completely hollow and shallow. Did he really make those statements after these two shootings? Or was it an alternative statement? FAIL.
Third, when the deliberate use of methods that effectively incite and instigate the divisiveness in our society is used, the cycle only perpetuates itself. Dems, GOP, and Independents alike are guilty of this.
Ugh...
It's a cruel irony that politicians who use the "mental illness" excuse routinely vote against increasing and improving health care (except their own). Vote them out. Please.
18
"he set out on a street rampage that, although it lasted only about 30 seconds, killed nine people and injured 27 others, police said."
These "guns" must be banned. The object is to kill as many as possible in the shortest amount of time.
Vote out anyone who refuses.
8