As we in the US have learned over the past 2 years, when a "leader" behaves as if he has no clue, best believe it.
5
Well, many thanks to my friends in the U.K. for making my national nightmare here in the U.S. seem like nothing at all. I have a friend in London who gets paid in dollars. She's thrilled and guiltily dismayed at the same time.
1
Brits avoided subjugation from the Armada to nazism. Brussels Administrational subjugation apparently isn't palatable also. They are fussy about their borders.
Brits are learning about life on 'Fantasy Island' with a clueless clown as their 'leader'.
7
Top five nations in the world, ranked by GDP: USA, China, Japan, Germany, India. The EU is fading.
Cut loose from the EU and make some trade deals with four of these. Does the EU even have a trade agreement with China?
If there's going to be a no-deal Brexit, the UK has to pick itself up and expand their trade with other areas. And it's not over with the EU. The champagne producers in Reims, the BMW auto makers in Munich and the hoteliers in Portugal and Spain are still going to need their British customers.
1
I can't be the only one who thinks Wales, Ireland and Scotland should join New England, New York, and California in a new United Republic that applies for EU membership....
7
Johnson is not holding any hole cards.
The UK's biggest exports are oil & gas, pharmaceutics, tobacco and alcoholic beverages. The EU and the rest of the world are competitively well stocked in all of these.
With Brexit, the City of London is losing most of its significant EU centric financial business, which has already left for Dublin, Frankfurt, Paris and Amsterdam.
Scotland will surely hold another referendum. After that vote for separation, it will break with the UK and, as a sovereign nation, join the EU. Will Scotland own the Nroth Sea oil off it's coast?
Without the Brexit backstop, border issues in Ireland will surely erupt. Will they bring back the “Troubles”?
Other than a lot more leisure time, coupled with far less foreigners on their soil, it is unclear how having the populist do nothing, Boris Johnson, makes England - let alone Wales or Northern Ireland - better off.
6
Boris, Nigel the Dancing Narwhal, Rees Mogg, and the rest of the motley lot of revanchists, opportunists, nostalgic colonialists, and what have you have gained the ultimate in Pyrrhic victories. Any British business or industry that relies to any significant extent upon the external world for markets, raw materials, labor, expertise, assembly and manufacturing, or any other economic component - and it is difficult indeed, after 25 years of having an economy inextricably linked to the EU, to imagine there are any - will have to move or go under. This business about groovy trade deals with America saving the day is sheer fantasy; we account for half of their exports right now and that isn't likely to go up much, especially with you-know-who and his fixation on trade deficits. I suspect that the architects of Brexit will to a person be expats soon, for when they reality of what they have so loudly advocated for becomes apparent, they won't be able to show their faces in Great Britain ever again.
4
The sun long ago set on the British Empire.
Now, under Boris Johnson, the UK becomes a Black Hole.
7
Currencies' nominal exchange rates are too unstable to be attributed to anything or to be predictors of anything.
As regards the GBP's aura of prestige or whatever, that did survive longer than expected or justified, but it ended fifty years ago, not with Mr. Boris Johnson. (Catherine Schenk's book is a reference for those with time on their hands.)
@Joe Ryan
The GBP allowed to UK to survive budget deficits at or exceeding 12% of GDP over the previous financial meltdown originating essentially in the US, on the strength of confidence and foreign investment and reserve currency status alone. The UK was essentially Argentina, without the foreign credit squeeze.
For you to dismiss out of hand the reserve status of the pound, second only to the US dollar, is the height of fact free statement.
But I look at your declared location and frankly, I'm not surprised.
1
Of course Johnson doesn't care if the British economy collapses, as a wealthy upper class-man, he is immune from financial ruin, as his his party's cronies. Ego and hard headiness make for a disastrous leader, as us Americans know all too well.
8
Fascism, the conviction that your tribe is better than all the other evil tribes, is the most basic of political philosophies.
It causes a lot of suffering but will continue to be a force for the foreseeable future. Not that anyone claims to be a fascist. Oh no.
1
I know that many will suffer because of Brexit. But perhaps suffering will awaken the know-nothings that were lied to by the Tories (BJ's bus sign about the NHS being the best-known and internationally accepted known lie), and whose ignorance, racism, or other "concerning" factor led them to vote Leave. As an American, I think BJ could give us all a needed boost: crash the world economy and get rid of Trump, BJ, and all the other right-wing-leaning politicians when they're discovered to be a self-serving bunch of aristocrats. Tighten your belts. (Loved the article in today's Guardian about getting prepared to eat your dogs. Sounds crazy, but during WWII and hardships, the English did indeed kill their dogs and cats to preserve food. Just pushed that issue a bit further, kind of like Jonathan Swift and the Irish.
4
It is mind-boggling that Johnson is pursuing Brexit as though England were a world power. In fact, England is ALONE, even in the not-so-united Kingdom. If the English super-nationalists have their way, the Union itself will be in jeopardy, as even the Orange population of the north of Ireland is threatened by English overreach. What a tragedy to see England brought so low by people of limited vision, limited compassion, limited sense of responsibility, and UNLIMITED England-First chauvinism.
10
We in the US should be watching this closely...this is what an empire in its death throes looks like.
From “the sun never sets on the UK” to potentially just lonely old pariah, inward looking, England.
It’s like looking in the mirror with the elevation of Trump
15
If a no-deal Brexit goes through, I predict BoJo will become the first prime minister of England (not the UK) as Scotland, Wales seek independence and Ireland reunified to do the same.
31
@Jon
"Ireland reunified"
After all those years, that's all it takes?
I guess every cloud does have a silver lining.
4
If you're running a multi-national business , the decisions as to where to focus your efforts are not hard. UK and Brexit reflect uncertainty if not instability so you look to alternatives which present certainty and stability, and a minimal presence of Murdoch media. Ireland or Germany start to look better and better.
Same goes for Hong Kong. All of a sudden Singapore reminds everyone of its stability for the last 50 years.
7
The one good thing about BoJo as PM is that his aggressive approach to Brexit is forcing market reactions that will kill the whole deal, quickly, which is what is needed. Theresa May was so timid and faltering she didn't force any conclusions about anything. Reality is now biting.
5
Like Das Groppenfuhrer Donny Quisling, Brother Boris is a useful idiot who sold his soul to Putin. He should be excommunicated by all Brits; he is out to destroy their country.
7
Brexit will be the biggest mistake any democratically governed country ever voted for with the exception of the selection of Donald J. Trump as POTUS.
12
Mr. Johnson and his cabinet are on a Kamikaze mission. He has declared that unless the Backstop is eliminated he sees no necessity to talk to European leaders like Macron or Merkel. Officially the Johnson administration talks about a 1:1 000 000 likelihood for a no-deal Brexit. Only very enthusiastic people think of that as true.
In case of a hard Brexit WTO tariffs enter into force as from November. And we are not talking about sheep exclusively.
The tragedy is just about to begin. I regard the British pound as toxic, since there are very few trade treaties being negotiated.
4
The accusations of European intransigence are pretty funny considering that, if the EU had really been playing hardball, Britain would already be out. March 2019, my Lord, can you imagine? It was British intransigence that set that deadline and British incompetence that exceeded it.
54
Boris Johnson is a true Heroic Archetype political figure ─to emerge out of the Western world in a long time. A perfect political companion for an nationalist, historic leader like President Donald Trump. Together they would make up the bulwark against self-defecting, elite-liberalism at home. And stem the tide of post modernistic and globalist defeatism of the European Union that enabled China’s rise.
@ChandraPrince - I often wonder if there is any country on earth with citizens as stupid as those of the U.S.
5
@ChandraPrince Excellent use of buzz words, repeated endlessly in a fantasy world somethere on the other side of Alfa Cenauri. Unfortunately for you all in the imaginary choir, the real world impinges even on the fanatic devotees of fantasy.
3
“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
— Winston Churchill
“It’s easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”
— Mark Twain
“Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
— H. L. Mencken
9
And so the royal yacht Britannia sails on, blowing her horn, warning the iceberg to move aside. BoJo is carefully arranging the deck chairs while the Queen is impatient for her tea.
You can delay the future, but you can never stop it.
48
The bias in this story is simply amazing. Are there any more negative adjectives that this writer could use?
I doubt it.
@Sparky Jones Not sure what bias you're referring to. There is such as thing as opinion, and the opinions of the majority of "players" in this drama more or less agree with the writer of this piece. I wonder if your concern, Sparky, is really for England, or rather for some imagined community of spirit between the arch-racists in the USA and the English ruling aristocracy which we so justifiably revolted against 243 years ago.
3
Thank you for a very good analysis of what is going to happen to a once great country. I fel the pain of the workers, farmers, and others who are not as cavalier as Johnson.
5
@MKP Indeed... the people of England have continued to suffer for 243 years under the yolk of an aristocratic class that we justifiably jettisoned in 1776.
1
Only the beginning. Expect the pound to be on parity to the dollar, even lower, as the October, deal-less witching hour winds down. My, these Oxbridge Tories are such brilliant chaps! Rule Britannia, and all that delusional rubbish.
11
Looks like for the ugly Americans who like to go to countries like their own, speak the same english language, (sometimes too fast though), It’s going to be cheaper in the upcoming years (unless Brexit is reversed). And that one thing about them that won’t be STUPID, is that they’ll be getting a good deal at it; it being a cheap vacation.
1
@Capt. Pisqua, but unfortunately still without air conditioning ;-)
2
Boris claims the UK will thrive after it crashes out. Donald claims that trade wars are easy to win, and multilateral trade deals are bad for the US. Both got to where they are through deception, lies and racial division.
Both men are favored by Putin and his information warfare machine. Why?
Both men are doing to the two former leading countries of liberal democracy what Putin couldn’t dream of doing economically or militarily.
Sad!
14
Apparently there is nothing you cannot do to a country once you hook into their racist and cultural based fear of others.
You can even take a healthy economy and run it off the cliff, just to satisfy nativist urges to purge foreigners. Wonder how many Britts stopped to think how the NHS will fare in the economic fallout?
English speaking white people are proving particularly susceptible to propaganda that affirms their worst selves.
Putin is positivity delighted.
8
And so it begins....
4
If Johnson's hard Brexit occurs, I do hope for a reunification of Ireland and an independent Scotland, which will then be part of the EU. Let England take a hard fall and maybe they will be able to get their house in order. Johnson is a buffoon and deserves a fitting ouster after Halloween.
7
@Andrew And independent Scotland is a good idea for Scots from a policy standpoint.
A reunified Ireland is a MORAL IMPERATIVE which will never ever be suppressed. This is as good a moment as any for Ireland to exact the just retribution for English genocide of the Irish 170 years ago.
1
I bet Putin is happy about this.
4
I wasn’t aware that England had a Fox News channel. No wonder they’re heading off the cliff!
5
@Bedroom - Rupert Murdoch has had a presence there for a long time.
4
"There will always be an England".
Well, ... maybe not.
4
For a country that achieved "greatness" thru slavery, the Opium war, and colonialism, I feel nothing sad about it's current problems.
6
Boris is a joke. He has been that way every since birth, I guess. He is a lot like Trump in that he says what a group of people just want to hear rather than what is real.
4
English voters may well get their wish to once again be a sleepy isolated little village while Scotland and Ireland break away and become even more prosperous countries within the E.U. England will be like Disneyland where people from other countries can take a cheap vacation and observe how people lived simpler lives on pastoral farms and villages. England will be like fly over country in the US where people want to pull a blanket over their heads and pretend the rest of the world doesn’t exist. Especially the rest of the world occupied by black and brown skinned people.
118
@Mary. You need to remove London from that future scenario; diverse forward-looking London voted overwhelmingly to Remain in the EU, and has bucked all the populist trends assailing the rest of England. To use a rail metaphor, the economic engine of England should now uncouple itself from the dead weight of the English regions. Switching metaphors, the fallen English regions are dragging us over the edge of a huge drop. Time to cut the rope.
10
@Mary
"Scotland becomes even more prosperous".
Follow Glasgow Celtic soccer club do you?. European club champions in 1967, they are now ranked 50th in Europe. So goes the big sports clubs, so goes the country.
1
The bias in this article is obvious, and it sounds like sour grapes. The sooner the EU recognizes that they lost - that Britain wised up - the better. If Boris finishes what May never did, Britain will rise and surpass the EU - and THAT is what scares the EU. The EU is left with only Germany as a powerhouse. Maybe "one-world" government's time has come and gone.
6
Will be difficult for an island nation that requires imports (goods, agriculture, raw materials and people) for it's survival to surpass those in whose imports they need.
74
@Tim If I had a unicorn, my selfies would be awesome.
Same wistful, optimistic logic there, methinks - but I'm as likely to wind up with a unicorn as Boris is to avoid a crisis and deliver a brilliant Brexit that - somehow - not only keeps Britain at its current economic levels, but actually surpasses them.
58
@Tim Rational people hedge their bets so they are not risking extinction if they are mistaken in their beliefs or assumptions. Conservatives are in many matters apparently more sure of themselves and do not need such comfort(s). In this case, time will tell- and the reality will be obvious and conclusions unequivocable. Many are no doubt standing by to see who wins this round of roulette- a game of the Russian variety in terms of potential consequences for the country, just as conservatives apparently prefer.
20
The pro-Brexit British politicians have lied and made promises to British citizens that will never be kept, just as Trump and the GOP have done to Americans. And the evidence of this is already manifest on both sides of the pond. Sadly, by the time the Brits and Americans fully understand this, it will be too late. An uneducated, unthinking, and emotional electorate is a dangerous thing.
9
Boris will definitely get a great deal from our stable genius: First, British airways will be required to buy all the remaining cancelled and parked 737-Max, (no worry, you'll get a Pound off each, due to sinking Sterling), next: English towns and cities will enjoy the newly enacted, high pollutions car industry, as your (foreign) car industry is leaving for the continent, to be topped of with a delicious "Poulet á la Chlorine," if you make it home for dinner!
In return, England will be allowed to submit 3 choices of ambassadors, before stable genius picks the most obedient one....
Oh, live after Brexit will be a hoot, come on you doom sayers, can't you see the great future?!
3
Stock markets move in anticipation of profitability based on increased business.
The UK stock market (FTSE) was at 6000 the week before Brexit. Today it is at 7600.
Just a reality check to counter the Times's myth that Brexit is bad for the UK economy.
2
@Charles TENSE, study verb tenses Charles. you say "is" concerning Brexit... Brexit has NOT HAPPENED YET... you should say "will be' if you believe your own fantasies,... or "might be" if you don't... but in any even the use of the present tense verb "is" is not appropriate.
1
@CLyde James
Study capitalization, "CLyde".
Vivian Rook for PM!!! You couldn’t do any worse than this lot.
For all you people who are looking forward to a cheap vacation because of the negative effects on the pound due to Brexit, do you really want to visit a place that will look at you sideways if your skin color is darker than Boris Johnson's? I'll skip the tea and crumpets, delivered with a smile, now that I know what the smile conceals.
3
@Rick Gage What's interesting is that, as I understand it, Poles (who are just as white as anyone else and possibly whiter than most) are viewed by conservatives in the UK just as negatively as Mexicans are viewed by conservatives in the US. It doesn't just come down to skin color over there, the way it does in America.
5
@Rick Gage - London is one of the most diverse cities in the world.
2
You are correct. Poles and Eastern Europeans are the Mexicans and Guatemalans of Britain.
2
It’s hard to see how Boris thinks he has any trump cards left to play against Brussels. With the rise in nationalistic insurgencies among some of its other members, the EU has to be considering that a no-deal “full sovereignty!” Brexit debacle will at least serve as an object lesson for the rest. As for those contending that, no worries, the UK ranks as the world’s 5th largest economy (in GDP) and will ably muddle through, the falling pound and all it entails means that ranking is falling too. Right now. By Brexit, they’ll be searching for sympathy with their new Developing Nation status.
I anticipate elections, and Boris gone, before Oct. 31st. Whether anything saner will follow is an open question. One can only hope.
7
If things go badly enough, and it certainly looks like they could, the UK will likely end up with Jeremy Corbyn as its new PM. If that isn't jumping from the frying pan into the fire, I don't know what is.
You don't have a vote in English or UK elections, so I guess you'll have to simply WATCH what happens when Corbyn become PM.
The UK will dissolve if Boris keeps going. Northern Ireland will become a separate province within Ireland, and Scotland will become independent. I could even see London try to get out of England due to what is going to happen there.
Finally the negative impact of uncertainty will result in less business investment in Europe until everything is clear. That combined with a slowing China is going to trigger a recession in 2020. Boris will sink Trump. Funny when you think about it!
8
Perhaps Ms. May's compromise deal (or a close facsimile thereof) will ultimately be accepted by Parliament. Then Ms. May's work would be vindicated.
1
The pound is falling because markets believe a hard Brexit will be a disaster for Britain and with Boris Johnson as PM that could happen.
No doubt Donald Trump will make comments encouraging Boris to keep going in the direction he is going. Any positive response from Boris should cause the pound to fall further.
BoJo has a loose tongue. He says whatever comes into his head with little regard for the consequences because he has little experience in situations where his opinions made any difference. Now that he is the PM he has power, and for the markets that is a negative thing, as it should be for all Brits.
17
Brexit. Just pure blindness and stupidity. In slow motion no less.
16
I wonder if Johnson is trying to prove once and for all to his own Parliament that there is no space between a negotiated exit with backstop and crashing out.
I can’t imagine him being so foolish to think he can get the EU to drop one of its 4 fundamentals (free movement of goods, capital, services, and labor), there has to be a strategy behind this.
2
@Anne That is what we thought here in the USA when Trump got elected. Turns out it was the same strategy Manson heard in Helter Skelter...
4
Once upon a time, Montreal was the undisputed economic center of Canada, home to its financial industry and its major companies.
Then, French-speaking Canada decided they were being treated badly by their sister provinces and agitated for independence.
Lo and behold, Toronto has now far eclipsed Montreal as the economic capital.
England — take note.
34
Brexit and subsequent deal making to minimize the negative impact is sadly little more than arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
6
I feel we’re finally getting to a tipping point here in the UK as entire industries - real estate, car manufacturing, retail, and a long etc. - indicate that the only remaining variable about Brexit is how harmful it’s going to be. Not even the greatest advocates of Brexit bother to claim that it will somehow be positive. That boat has long since sunk. Damage limitation is as good as it gets. But, really, that’s how it has to be to prove to people that actions have consequences. And the breakup of the UK into its component parts is a serious consequence.
42
@Christian Rakovsky You are so right... As a life-long Anglophile of English ancestry, I find it unbearably painful to see people of my blood doing untold damage to their two great nations, and at the same time showing the world what racists, xenophobes and IDIOTS we can be.
4
ahh it is all good Boris will take Great Britain over the cliff with a hard Brexit and taking the world economy with it. We will be in a recession by election time next year with the Fed having no ammunition or money to stop it due to the Republican tax cuts, should be a perfect storm to rid the world of this strain of imbecility.
36
@Bewley5 Disagree. England is not even as important as CA or TX or FL or NY. The idea that the world economy will be affected is almost ludicrous. If your contention is the UK will affect the EU that is true but one of the positions I agreed with Mitt Romney on was "England a little island that makes nothing and lives in the past" is still true today.
3
@Ernest Lamonica I am not British but it is not just a UK possible crash out of Europe in Oct. this year. China-US trade talks are not progressing at all and have not been for months now, Chinese debt levels at national and state owned company/bank levels just continue to rise. Why is the US Federal Reserve likely to cut interest rates, because the overall economic outlook is so strong?
1
@Ernest Lamonica Check your figures, please.
Trump supporters and Brexit supporters. All motivated by hate, racism, xenophobia and reactionary nostalgia. Who knew there were so many?
70
It is like watching a slow motion train wreck.
27
What will it take for the British to rise to the occasion, and say Enough of this stupidity? Can't they see, with some foresight, what's coming, financial 'Armaggedon' and isolation? Why should the British people have to lose what they've got...before appreciating what they lost...and when all that's left is the 'crying'? Can't they see that their society is being split in half, and where Johnson is adopting Trump's mantra of 'divide to conquer' nonsense?
22
@manfred Marcus
The same can be said about Trump and his policies and behaviors. Americans are doing nothing about it, but the media gives him all the attention he craves. Meanwhile the right is destroying the country from the inside and no one reports very much of it or cares. The US is on the same slippery slope.
4
@manfred marcus "What will it take for the British to rise to the occasion, and say Enough of this stupidity?"
I've been waiting 2 1/2 years for that to happen here, and it hasn't.
3
With the continued crash of the Pound, England will become an excellent cheap cultural tourist destination like Mexico. Well done Brexiteers!
21
@Ryan K, wait for the fun as British football hooligangs act out the part of Mexican drug cartels!
@Ryan K I hate to tell you Ryan, England will NEVER EVER be as interesting as Mexico.
A weakened UK serves no purpose to the strength and stability of the EU and its Commonly Market. Give the Brits a sweet divorce deal and women military bases before you all start eating Borsch for breakfast. There’s an older narrative here and we must remember the words of George VI, that God hath used his Empire to herald a new age. This has not receded as Americans celebrate the 400th anniversary of the est. of the House of Burgesses and the arrival of Africans to Virginia. The Commonwealth received its Charter in 2013. This is but a moment in a development that will take generations to unspool. George VI said we must recommit to our values of Liberty and tolerance, the values exemplified by Elizabeth II. Brexit is the chance for all of the Commonwealth, including the lands of America, the New Atlantis, to recommit to the vision that George VI perceived.
1
Boris and his deluded friends seem to think they are going to get a "special deal" from The Leader. They undoubtedly will, one very much like the special deal Puerto Rico receives - complete with The Navigation Acts, aka The Jones Act. Welcome, not-quite-so-great Britain as The Leader's next colony.
6
The Jones act has nothing to do with foreign powers and will continue to have nothing to do with them. Puerto Rico could easily rid itself of the Jones Act stipulations by voting for independence. The costs to Puerto Rico resulting from the Jones Act are far outweighed by the support it receives from USA coffers so that will never happen.
@Zamboanga Puerto Rican’s are not crazy enough to vote for independence. We have an ageing population, inadequate infrastructure, debt up to our eyeballs, no substantial industry, an agriculture sector that currently produces less than half of what we eat, and a political class rife with corruption—hardly a recipe for successful independence.
The Jones Act is a cruel anachronism that continues to bleed an island of American citizens that is already on its knees. Statehood is the only way out!
1
I am very much a supporter of allowing the harm that people vote for to play out in full. The US voted for Trump, and democrats can say he didn't win the popular vote, but he is president and the people should feel the results. They deserve it. The UK has done the same, and in this case, the majority actually did choose Brexit. They deserve it and they should have it.
The people of the two countries are gullible and cowed and likely quite masochistic. It is very difficult to have empathy for those who choose to punish themselves. If a man sat in the town square and continually hit himself in the face with a hammer one must conclude that he likely wants or deserves that pain. And so it is with the people of the US and the UK. We cannot ignore that they have chosen this path.
21
@Chris I'm not aware of too many historical examples where suffering and misery teaches people the precise lessons one might hope it would.
Perhaps World War II. But the reverse seems more common: rather than admitting they were wrong, humans tend to look for someone else to blame, leading to exponentially greater suffering and misery that spreads far beyond those at fault.
If you happen to like humans and wish them to thrive, another path seems preferable. If you don't, then withdrawing empathy and hoping everyone gets their just desserts will likely work quite well.
11
Right. Unfortunately, those like myself who didn’t vote for Trump or his sycophants are being punished as well. How fair is that?
7
@Chris: Against fools, the Gods themselves, struggle in vain.
2
The UK was fine in the EU in 2016, even with the temporary Syrian war immigration crisis, it never needed a referendum. PM Cameron, under pressure from the right wing Tories, agreed to it thinking it had no chance to succeed. Bring in the Brexiters with their high tech social media fake propaganda, tons of money from those who would profit from leaving, a little meddling from the usual foreign suspects and everybody was caught napping.
40
In the end, it will probably be best to see the UK (and the royalty) dissolved. For almost a century, they have been an embarrassing anachronism.
4
@Glenn Embarrassment to whom?
3
Shameless Boris, blaming the E.U. you lied your way to Brexit, you got your way. Renegotiate what? EU preferred you to stay in the union, but you flipped them off , what possible bargaining chip do you think you have? Yes exporters like the Netherlands will be harmed( but they are solidly in the E.U. and it's huge market. Holland will adjust. Tiresome boor that you are, crashing out of one of the biggest markets in the world, how clever.
53
Boris and Trump are both con men and liars. They bring divisiveness and destruction. They even look similar. They are both very bad for their countries and for Democracy.
57
His biggest 'accomplishment' may be the final dissolution of the United Kingdom as Scotland and Northern Ireland make the determination to stay aligned with the E.U.
93
Whoa! Who could have guessed!?!
11
Boris Johnson is as dangerous and ignorant as Donald Trump.
29
@susan Boris Johnson is not ignorant. He’s psychologically warped.
3
Sad ending to UK story, with a whimper, rather than a bang.
22
You can't fight the tape, Boris.
Britain will learn the hard way, as we in the US are, what the consequences of putting the unqualified in charge.
61
Maybe the English don’t care about the money. Maybe they hope to return to an idyllic past where they can live in modest comfort surrounded by their fellow English men and women. Sure why not give it a shot. It might work out for them. The English are known for making the best of a bad situation.
8
@Ed- "Idyllic past"? Perhaps you should read some Dickens?
9
@Ed:
[once] great britain built the "commonwealth",
on the backs of slaves and thru colonial [fire] power.
[how far] back to an idyllic past ...
when its consequences have become
an unwelcome, unbearable burden?
5
They asked for it and they got it;
Brexit:
Just like we asked for trump and we got him.
Elections have consequences.
The U.K. Is headed towards disaster as is the US only most people are too ignorant to realize it.
Sad but true.
41
Brexit is not going to happen and the pound is up slightly today reflecting that growing recognition. Boris is now left searching for a plausible alibi for why it didn't happen.
Scotland, Ireland and Wales have let him know how unpopular it is. The US House Irish caucus has let him know there will be no trade deal. Apart from the UK tabloids there is little support even within England.
10
Recently returned from UK traveling from
Cardiff Wales to London. Beautifully green countryside all the way, lots of oxygen. Great beer so different from US carbonated ones, great inexpensive produce from Spain, wines from France, fresh bread right around the corner. Rail expensive, take the bus. Legal gambling and a community of people all concerned with Brexit but carrying on. The UK will survive despite current lack of leadership and total failure
of austerity, which was blamed on the EU and set up the leave vote. Also false rumors and later retracted statements by Boris and Farage swung Brexit. Unfortunately
Cameron was no better only better mannered. And he too takes no responsibility for his folly!
11
British planks are reputedly sturdy. Just how sturdy will soon be tested when Tory politicians and their supporters, led by PM Boris Johnson, see how many can walk the plank as a group before the planks fail.
Below the plank is a chaotic ocean of "Known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns."
Bookmakers in London are taking bets, but only accepting Euros since the value of the Pound is so uncertain.
The Scots and Northern Irish are heading for the lifeboats.
The factory worker in the photo for this story is putting the finishing touches on his Ark.
Signmakers are looking forward to a booming business in re-centering and repainting any signs that read "United Kingdom" or "Great Britain."
9
Is Johnson only driven by ego and a power trip in his quest to have the UK leave the EU (which will almost undoubtedly result in the end of the UK), or might there be a more sinister motivation? One has to wonder if, perhaps, there are millions of pounds waiting for Johnson in some offshore account somewhere, placed there as payoff by Putin.
18
@fact or frictionPutin has nothing to do with it.
Interesting application. I wonder how much the hot side of the device warms the clothing, and the air in the vicinity of the person wearing it?
1
A great amount with bojo!
The UK did not vote overwhelmingly to leave the EU. In fact, almost as many people voted to remain. No country - indeed no local City Council - uses a simple majority to decide such important issues. The UP is much better off in the EU. Boris is just another Trump like ruler, intent on shaking things up for the sake of chaos and themselves.
29
I live there half the year. My son lives there. Bojo, as Boris is called, says Britain is a "sleeping giant" just waiting to awake and become an economic "beast.'
Well, from my experience, the sleepiness that pervades the country is going to require a stronger brew of tea to be able to wake and prepare for what will happen if no deal takes place on October 31.
They make and grow nothing in the U.K. the world can't buy elsewhere. The island risks being shunted off to sideshow status. Maybe the cask ales are unique.
The empire can't be regained. They imagine, the Brexit supporters do, that some kind of going back to a better time is in the cards. Many of those folks are dear friends of mine and I don't try to dissuade them from their nostalgia.
However, they are going to find bollux at the bottom of the Brexit barrel and it is the next two generations who will pay the price of this mistake.
It's a global economy and multinational firms will simply move off the island. They already are.
I find it all quite depressing because I know what is coming and the Brexit crowd are living in deep, deep denial.
174
@John Harrington:
unfortunately,
brexiteers are not the only ones living in denial,
countless yesteryearners around the globe
want the "good old [great again] days" to return.
if, at least, they moved backwards we might
even see social market economies reanimated.
yet, to our dismay, they move to the far right where
they hope to find what the "global rest of the world"
has been depriving them of.
once great britain built the commonwealth and
now tries to ease away from the consequences.
globalization, at its best, means caring
and daring to share fairly what's there.
at it's very worst it will have the rich win
against the poor ...
[why did we allow corporate trickers and traitors to
become too big to fail and jail while we continue to
bail them out when they evade taxes & ruin things
for you and me - (not for themselves)?]
29
@John Harrington
What it had going for them was location, tourist, and the English image. Not enough to survive on
6
The pound has been swimming against the tide ever since monetary union made German and EU banking powerful players in determining which local economies to favor when establishing regulatory policy.
Compared to the ante-bellum USA, the weak, quasi-supranational government of the EU has been long overdue for a major federalism crisis involving secession. At the moment, the least destructive opportunity for confronting this inevitable rift involves a meaningless Brexit on Halloween -- accompanied by voluntary maintenance of the Irish status quo -- followed by years of negotiating (and occasionally litigating) the terms of the full separation and the ongoing, necessary relationship as provided long ago by GATT Article 24.
5
@Sequel "Long over-due"? We were a country for more than half a century before the civil war.
@Sequel
The day of reckoning has arrived, and finger pointing days by Little Englanders has come to an end.
With no deal the UK will be on the other side of WTO tariffs (GATT was replaced in 1995). The UK's only option to avoid chaos is to allow import of goods and services on the isles, and hope for some sort of practical reciprocal behaviour from its EU partners who have little incentive to do so and legal obligations to do precisely the opposite. A pipe dream. EU countries aren't akin to Jersey and Guernsey, they are subject to the rule of law and are obliged to apply tariffs and inspections. The limits will be practical and they will impact the flow of goods, as there is only so much storage space available to conduct inspections. Supply chains will be impacted all over the continent but only the continent has the resources to reorganise. The UK for her part, will be left in the cold.
Further, London is currently a world financial capital and 20% of the City of London's activity is Euro denominated. In other words, 20% of the wealth generated by financial services in the UK, its biggest forex earner along with ever declining oil exports, is dependent on the EU.
And that business is heading to the continent because the UK has refused to accept the rulings on financial disputes by the EU court of justice post Brexit. That isn't the EU's fault, it's squarely on the backs
So Euro denominated business has and is moving to Frankfurt, Paris, Luxemburg, Zurich, and Amsterdam.
5
@Andy That's an interesting slant on the current state of affairs. From my perspective, Bojo will not even need to tell the EU that if it wants to erect border controls in the Irish Republic, it will take full responsibility for what follows. The UK -- not so much.
It is in everyone's interest to negotiate this mess to a peaceful end.
Hard Brexit was the whole point, and they've almost done it. The conservatives have hedged their portfolios, their benefactors will benefit and they're set up to blame the EU for not negotiating a second time - when they refuse to take a second Brexit vote, except for the endless votes on May's ludicrous deal. This is how tyranny of the minority works, the election of an irresponsible tyrant by a elitist minority leveraging an ignorant mass. The lies will continue until the truth improves.
286
@mjw
I'm confused. Are you talking about the U.K. or the U.S.A?
35
@FrankWillsGhost what is the difference
10
@MDM Not a thing.
5
Boris may very well find himself to be Prime Minister of England and Wales only before too long... as Scotland and Northern Ireland vote for a different kind of "Leave."
268
Wales is talking of leaving.
13
@The View From Downriver
Yes! It is long past time. Free N Ireland and Scotland!
13
@Precarious Illusion
Which is curious since Wales voted 52.5% in favour of leaving the EU in the 2016 referendum.
1
Boris is doing a great job for Russia weakening England's economy and political system to level the playing field for Russia expansionism.
Donald is doing the same great job for Russia in America, weakening the economy and political system to allow Russian expansion in North America.
The funny thing is that nobody is investigating where does the Murdoch's money come from to finance the media system that has catapulted the two Russian soldiers.
116
@hugo
Murdoch and Mercer money
1
@hugo Putin is playingg hard balls with the whole world; maybe Russia will get the backlash soon...
1
As others have commented, fluid trade and interdependence is the best bulwark we have against conflict and war. That is the greatest benefit of working together, and a lesson of prime importance. The go-it-alone (holier-than-thou) attitude of the resurgent right wing is precisely a clarion call for future conflict.
79
@PT Absolutely right. In the short term, the right-wing populists will behave as allies of convenience in destroying the liberal democratic institutions that have largely preserved peace in Europe for 75 years. Once they've accomplished that goal, they'll find reasons to turn on each other. There are limits to nationalist internationalism and revanchist cosmopolitan cooperation.
Looking forward to my deeply discounted visit to England and the other former members of the UK this fall at deeply discounted rates!
The world can’t wait to see my iteration of other famous Instagram shots: a selfie in front of Big Ben, a carefully arranged photo of a pint of London Pride alongside a basket of fish and chips; a time lapse of the London Eye.
7
@T. Rivers Hope you are really able to have the enjoyment you seek. In the upcoming battered economy while your dollar might buy more, you may also find an environment not so conducive to your pleasure and safety. The decline may come more swiftly than you suspect.
7
I think he is being sarcastic. (I hope so anyway.)
3
By selling their cash holdings of British pound en masse, investors and corporations are loudly saying that Brexit is Bad. They are worried that the British pound will continue to lose stability.
The market is broadcasting its dislike of Boris Johnson's policies.
How very ironic that Mr. Johnson, a pro-market conservative, has made the markets so scared!
84
@IN "Mr. Johnson, a pro-market conservative"
SELF DECLARED pro-market conservative.
He is neither pro market nor conservative in any meaninful sense. He is for lies as long as it keeps him and maybe his buddies, but mostly just him, wealthy.
BoJo rolls for BoJo, and noone else.
7
This ever vanishing country is about to disappear for good post October - as in throwing its weight around in international affairs.
The might kingdom that ruled the waves now wants all to waive all kinds rules to save itself from itself.
I lived and worked in UK some years back.
Most recently, a couple of years back spent six glorious months over summer and fall - renting a 2 bedroom apartment in Hammersmith in London.
Without boasting, as a 70 year old retiree - I can afford just about anything anyone wants.
During this six months stay - I always wondered how folks can afford to live in london or UK for that matter.
I think for UK to thrive economically, the pound should be trading at our 50 cents - and then, may be UK will survive and triumph even with a no deal Brexit.
10
Boris Johnson said recently that whether or not Britain crashes out of the E.U. with no deal is solely in the E.U.'s hands. Has it really come to this?! The guy who has pumped up the volume for Brexit with a big helping of bravado is now looking for a back door through which he can make a hasty escape from the throngs of angry Britishers. What's up with Boris Johnson and Donald Trump? Can they not take responsibility for anything that might go south on them? Trump sounded so convincing when he proclaimed to America that trade deals are "so easy". Boris Johnson sounds so convincing when he proclaims that Brexit is the beginning of the rebirth of the U.K. to be an economic powerhouse and world leader. Furthermore, it seems more like a mutual admiration society of two members. Where are you leading us Boris and Donald.... someplace really, really great?
76
Too Silly! The article fails to mention that a year ago the sacred Euro was trading at $1.18 and it is now down to $1.11 which is a 6% drop! And yet not a single "the sky is falling" peep from the author about any supposed catastrophic outcomes facing the citizens of the EU.
This breathless, weeping and gnashing of teeth, run-up to October 31st is simply yet another in its series of Y2K-type, looming disaster scams that the media periodically creates to drive traffic and pump advertising rates.
Please remain calm. Humans will not suddenly lose their biologically driven propensity to engage in mutually beneficial voluntary exchange. All will be well.
9
@Hayekian von Mises Thanks, Boris, nicely put. Still not true, though...
21
@Hayekian von Mises You forget that Scotland had a fairly recent referendum on severing its political ties to England. The winning argument for Scotland staying in the UK was the moderating factor of EU membership. A no-deal Brexit forces Northern Ireland out as well. So that pretty much just leaves England and Wales, unless the Welsh language nationalists somehow catch on.
33
@Hayekian von Mises The UK imports more than it exports. The pound's decline is really troubling for small to mid-size businesses that depend on imported materials. If the pound's slide continues, these businesses could be devastated. It's hard on sterling-earning savers, as well, who are literally watching their savings lose value. And for everyday consumers, all that wonderful fresh produce that arrives from Spain? Well, your pound now buys fewer tomatoes than it used to. And real estate, already such a challenge for Brits? Holders of foreign currencies have even greater incentives to buy it up now.
But don't give the pound's decline a second thought. All will be well.
9
A no deal Brexit will eventually dissolve the UK. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU and will use any excuse to leave. A future unified Ireland no longer looks like a fantasy and the Scots crave the economic stability and European identity.
101
@Jgrauw
The last time Northern Ireland voted on independence from the UK was 1973 and the vote was 99 percent against.
Scotland’s much more recent vote on independence was much closer, but I haven’t heard that Northern Ireland wants to unify with the Republic of Ireland or go it alone — only that the Republic of Ireland will not tolerate a hard border. Short of hot war, they could make life very difficult, such as by curtailing the supply of electricity to Northern Ireland.
4
So almost 50 years ago is your last data point? Right pretty much nothing has changed.
At the end of the day Brexiteers like BOJO dont give a rats about Northern Ireland or the entire Island of Ireland or really anything beyond singing songs about Old Blighty.
If sacrificing the Loyalists in the North is the price to be paid for a restoration of the House of Tudor so be it.
If I was a Loyalist living in the North I would be seriously checking out real estate in Wales or somewhere cheap in England. The demographics are not in your favor and their is NO WAY the government of UK or GB or Jolly Roger or whatever is going to go back to a hot war with the Irish to protect you and your Union Jack in your yard.
5
@jgrauw. Exactly. In 10 years, maybe less, we will see a re-unification of Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Win all around and the only real endgame of a hard Brexit.
only hard losers are the Loyalists in NI who must be sold out for hard Brexit to take place.
There is no way that the political will remains among Brexiteers to re-install a paramilitary force at the border. Post-UK England would be shunned and a pariah worldwide if it brought back the apparatus of control to protect a minority of flag wavers and paraders who don’t even consider themselves English.
1
Churchill would be so.proud. England a Pariah state? I lived in Kensington London for off and on 8 years. So many in England are really quite stuck in their "The glory that was England". SAD.
23
I went to London in 2008 and it was $2.12ish and euro was $1.61 ish. The fish and chips wasn’t cheap. I think it’s time for another vacation
16
We are at the cusp of a seminal moment where Britain is accelerating its decline and taking down the European Union with it. On a global stage of trade wars and nationalist fervor, Britain will soon become a non-entity at the bargaining table. China and India hold more aces than Britain today and, very soon, countries like Indonesia and Bangladesh will join the global stage easing out Britain. Greece and Egypt too dominated the world stage centuries ago but today ruins are all that remain for tourists to visit and ponder a wonderful past. Rapidly joining them is Britain. And all this to stop immigration from eastern Europe and the Syrian refugee crisis and re-create a national identity of the old Britain of the 50s or perhaps a century ago. Britain needs to seriously revisit the referendum where the margin of victory was less than 1%, and today, it has a leader who was elected by less than 1% of the population of the country. With all the bickering going on within and among various parties, sanity has taken a back seat. Britain urgently needs a general election first and then a referendum to revisit Brexit - there would be a resounding Remain vote.
123
@Varadha: Your proclamation of the demise of Britain is premature.
While Britain is weakening itself and may continue to decline, it is still one of the larger and relatively more robust economies of the world.
One way to measure an economy is using per-capita GDP. For such a tiny (population-wise) nation, Britains' is still among the top.
5
@IN Not sure how many economic downturns you've experienced in your life, but the downturns initiated by panics can destroy economies in astoundingly short order. Beware the landslide even when you think only a few insubstantial cracks have appeared.
12
@IN Britain is currently still a member of the EU...
Who are they kidding? Only themselves, the elites and the conservative base just can't accept that England as they knew it is over. They can't stand on their own as well as they could in the EU. And that they depend heavily on immigrants. Well, we'll see how they like being merely marginal on the world stage.
43
@John Masters substitute 'president' for 'PM' and this is how many of us feel about being citizens in the U.S.!
10
@JP How do we like it? We don't - but until we get an opportunity at the ballot box, we're stuck with a government and a PM with no mandate from the people and a lemming-style plan to drive us all over a cliff.
63
@Emily Corwith I hear ya. Point taken.
4
Usually lost in discussions of the pros and cons of Brexit is the following fact: economic union, in its evolving forms, has marked an end to the pan-European bloodshed of the twentieth century.
In this context, the rise of right-wing populist nationalism should give one pause.
210
@Brian Stewart
A valid point to consider, though one could also argue that the ever growing nature of the EU bureaucratic state and its ignoring of national sovereignty is a direct cause of the rise of the extreme right in Europe. The elites want one thing and the common folks another, never a good mix.
7
@Brian Stewart Not to worry. The Donald will get there first, starting military operations a few months in advance of the 2020 elections to play the card helping assure his reelection. The eventual war in Europe will be after that. I'm guessing that in that conflict the Russians will use their military to "save" Estonia and Lithuania from the turmoil, will advance and take the rest of the Ukraine but go the "bridge too far" when they invade Poland and start the nukes flying unless, of course, The Donald decides to nuke the bad brown people in the Middle East first. What do you think?
2
@George S I think the causes of the growth of the right wing are more closely related to austerity than to any alleged ignoring of national sovereignty. Certainly in the UK the 'sovereignty' argument was fallacious.
7
Long term: England becomes the 51st state of the United States of the Atlantic?
@Svrwmrs
If England becomes attached to the US, I predict it will not be as a 51st state of the US, but rather similar to the status of Puerto Rice.
In the US you can have a superior attitude, provided you have the money to back it up. And if you don't . . .
2
@Svrwmrs The US is already ungovernable...
2
The problem with assuming Boris Johnson has a plan in his head is the same as the problem of assuming Trump is a political genius, a master manipulator through malevolent Machiavellian machinations. Trump isn't, he is just reptilian, working through instinct, doing whatever he thinks might be expedient in a given moment. Johnson came out of the same mold. Experts shouldn't be debating the wisdom or the savvy of Boris. Like his buddy, he does whatever he thinks will get him through the day. Deal, no-deal, fate of the UK, whatever.
207
Look at the bright side, that vacation to London is looking better each day. Christmas in Piccadilly!
28
I'm thinking the Bank of England should mint a coin: head No Deal Brexit, tails no Brexit, and present it to Parliament. Absent a vote for May's deal, a toss by Speaker Bercow will decide the whole thing once and for all.
13
Too bad for all those Brits who bought property in either Spain, or the south of France, or even Italy. Time to go home.
19
@Luc I think a fair number of those people who bought property the EU will apply for passports there. They may not qualify but I’m certain they will try.
5
@Luc
With the pound falling against the euro, those purchases may have been good investments.
5
@Luc I know many Brits who have luxuriated in Italy like colonists taking advantage of their EU citizenship, which allows for easier purchases of villas, vehicles, etc. Once they lose their EU status things will become very very complicated for them, e.g. property taxes, application for residency, etc. Most likely they will be required to have visas to stay extensively. Oh well, the Italians never liked them anyway, just their money.
12
No doubt BoJo will drive the British economy over a cliff before admitting wrong. The question is are there 20 Tory MPs with a conscience and a spine ready to defect and deliver a vote of no confidence in his government?
Best possible outcome is resurgent Liberal Dems doubling their seats and holding the balance of power to moderate a Labor government.
16
@Laurence Bachmann
He will never admit wrong
Never have so many walked so gleefully to their own doom. God help their souls!
70
@Scott
Umm, we far out number the Brits, and from my view are sinking further and faster.
4
Populism is a storm which Western Civilisation needs to ride out. Its effects are obvious, but its causes should be acknowledged and addressed. The 2016 referendum became a lightning rod for widespread public disillusionment and discontent which had grown since the banking crisis and resulting austerity. Bannon and others saw this as an opportunity to feed the unwary lies and distortions and mobilise them for their own ends. Something similar seems to have been in operation in the run up to the last US Presidential Election.
Chief among the urgent lessons to be learnt is finding a way to help people differentiate between real and fake news, maybe by coming up with an accreditation system for content publishers administered by trusted 3rd parties.
The gullible don't deserve our contempt, but rather our help.
49
Just like in the US with Trump, Boris Johnson is a clear threat to the capitalist underpinnings of the Tory party, their finances and trade links to Europe. Europe is where Britain lives, not some past, glorious empire.
Let’s see, if the financial elites will stay on board the cart for the economic over the cliff.
In the US the economic powers clipped Trump’s wings, when he tried to mess with the Federal Reserve.
Money talks. (Unfortunately not much else has that kind of pull, unless maybe a general strike).
12
I always thought that, subconsciously, Brexit was Great Britain punishing itself for their years of colonizing the world and taking the wealth of conquest back home--there's a reason such a a tiny island went out to find new resources and explore. But now Brexit, beyond the attempt to curtail British immigrants health care and other services (which is why those Welsh farmers voted yes) will end up denying these very things to everyone due to a Brexit-causing diminution in wealth.
60
Brexit in Britain may be the canary in the coal mine.If Britain slips into recession and other countries in the Euro union follow suit-a recession in the United States cannot be far behind.Trump wants to divide and conquer.If there is a financial crisis he will realize that allies are necessary-that coordination works.Trump thinks that the US is unique and can operate alone.At the time of recession he will come to realize how wrong he is, or at least the country will come to this stark realization.
18
@JANET MICHAEL Ahh- sorry- I do not believe Trump is capable of recognizing fault in himself. It will always be someones else's fault that things do not follow his script.
31
@JANET MICHAEL if there's a recession it will be Obama's fault... somehow.
4
@JANET MICHAEL
I think it's been almost a century since people's belief on the UK's affect on the international economy has been wildly exaggerated. The London part can pick up and move in a couple of years, 2% rest can just wallow in the pub.
In June 2016 Wales had a turnout of almost 72% and 52.5% of the voters voted to Leave. Wonder how all those sheep farmers voted?
There is some thought the Johnson, despite of what he says, is angling for an early -- pre-Oct. 31 -- election betting, probably correctly, he can beat Labour's old-Bolshi leader Corbyn.
However it all falls out the UK, or what might left of it, is in for hard times.
22
@Fred There may be something to your speculations. But if it's true, and he does beat Corbyn and the others, it'll be all the worse for little deluded England and its England-first-deluded chauvinistic population.