I’m not sure it matters who the Democratic presidential nominee is if the Senate remains in Republican hands. Why? If Trump isn’t re-elected, he’ll spend the next 4 years leading the charge against everything the 46th president does. This will make it impossible for Republican senators to compromise with Democrats on anything, leading to 4 years of stagnation. If the Democrats control the Senate, at least they’ll be able to force through political appointees, which could offer a chance to repair some of Trump’s damage. And if they’re willing to ditch the filibuster, they could get actual legislation through.
5
@Matt: The Senate is so atrociously malapportioned it deserves only abolition. It does nothing whatsoever to validate the scale independence of legislation, which is the only logical rationale for bicameral legislatures in a genuine democracy.
1
One's gotta admire the elder statesman's smarts. Period. It's refresheningly not sound-bite-y.
9
The so called “moderates,” who were relentlessly attacking progressive policies in the debate are all polling around 1%. They barely made the cut for the debate. Sanders and Warren are numbers two and three in the polling averages. Sanders just hit the two million contribution mark and has over a million volunteers. The policies he is proposing poll very well among Democrats and independents, and in most of the developed world have been mainstream policies for decades. Young voters, the future of the country, are strongly supportive of Sanders and his policies. May I suggest that it’s long past time for the mainstream media and many readers of this paper to recognize that the status quo is not popular among the majority of voters. 2016 was a change election year. The Democratic and media establishments put their hands on the scales for the “safe,” establishment candidate, and the faux populist won. Perhaps we could do things differently this time around? Or are we going to repeat the same mistakes and re-elect a man who will destroy whatever is left of democracy?
20
Democrats want to see this pestilence, Trump, eradicated, but the issue remains, do we support the most progressive and wise candidates, who are said to be risky choices due to the moderates in swing voter states? Of course, Bernie, Warren and Buttigieg are heavenly candidates compared to Biden, a person with such horrible judgement that he actually voted to fund the catastrophic invasion into Iraq (as did Hillary), but what should we do? Support the "safe" candidate, if it is, say, Biden? I desperately don't want to, but if all the polls and evidence points to Biden being the safest candidate, I will have to support him to "dump Trump". What a dilemma!
I'm surprised that they didn't provide a link to the bill that Senator Sanders wrote. I went through the effort of finding it for anyone interested in reading it over: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129
7
I see that Democrats are still doubling down on fear and timidity. There is no political enthusiasm or votes in the "center." Did you all learn nothing from the Hillary? As the country continues to fearfully lurch to the right in spasms we have moderate fearful Democrats taking up Republican talking points, out of fear of losing elections, out of fear of being labeled a "radical." Out of fear of standing on principal or actually having morals. Out of fear. Universal health care is easily provided around the globe the concept isn't "far left" or "radical". And gosh, should we really actually tax the rich? How radical. Or close the immigration torture camps on the border? But they will say we are for open borders and then we'll run away scared. Because that's so radical. Instead we should vote for Joe Bland governor of the state of fear.
13
Sorry, but I disagree with this take. Bernie was far less compelling on even his signature issue to me than Warren was, who made it personal. And even Warren needs to work on her response to the argument that Medicare for All is going to strip people of choice.
Bernie's ultimate problem is that too often it's apparently all about Bernie. How consistent he's been on an issue, how he got there first, how he "wrote the damn bill!" No one cares what a purist you are, Bernie. Drop the ego!
Yes, Mr. Sanders wrote the bill. Has anyone read it in its entirety? It is a ‘my way or a highway of your choosing’ proposal. His angry face and voice hid the meaning of his message. I thought I was listening to live Trump tweet without the abject lies. I am tired of anger and authoritarian rule.
Ms. Warren’s message was softer and clearer, also a one-way highway. I continue to believe that a Medicare for all with a private insurance buy-in is the best alternative. With a one-payer central plan and buy-in supplement, the cost for both would be significantly reduced.
The message should be this: If we provide public education to train the minds of the future, then we should damn well provide public health, not just for the children, but for the entire nation to keep those minds and bodies healthy throughout their lifespan.
No one needs to yell about healthcare or insist on a one-way path. Regulation and oversight can rein in fraud, and payroll contributions will also reduce costs. Private competition will focus on quality, and that means reduced profits. Will shareholders accept the reduction? That brings the entire 'Wall Street' and '1%'ers' to the forefront of greed versus our civic democracy.
We could pride ourselves as the country of healthcare so complete and individualized that those with diseases and basic needs would be the future of our stable dominance in innovation with a healthy, educated, workforce. Health can reduce poverty. Thanks for reading my comments.
What is it with Americans and health care? Do you enjoy paying stupid amounts of money for the most expensive healthcare “system” in the world?
Surely a state-led healthcare for all system, harnessing the purchasing power of the population makes more sense to ensure that everyone gets cover? By all means let anyone purchase health insurance on top if they wish, but everyone ought to be able to access a reasonable service.
This is not “socialist” or “communist”, it’s simply fair.
18
Andrew,
I agree. The problem is greed and corruption.
Our politicians have been bought and paid for by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries (and every other large corporation and special interest group for that matter).
5
Go Bernie! If you’re too wimpy to support him, think about how 40 years of meh centrist DNC politics worked for you. They delivered Trump. No thanks.
19
What did we watch last night?
The presidential debate or the child care organized by the CNN?
Don’t those politicians understand that everything comes with a price tag?
The only way to pay for the new benefits is by increasing the taxes.
The leaders willing to promise everything obviously don’t indent to deliver anything.
If the Democrats are trying to please separately the different races, it means they don’t see us as the unified nation.
The true leaders are color-blind and enact only the measures in everybody’s best interest.
The great principles don’t have race, ethnicity, gender, sex, age, party affiliation or expiration date.
Bernie stole the show last night with Warren and Buttigieg right behind him.
Beto also seemed to do better than he did in the last debate.
5
If moderates want to win the day... they can not merely attack the progressive agenda as unrealistic...that's a losing argument.
.. --Moderates must have strong & convincing ideas..that have the wide appeal they keep saying is necessary..
..-- So far the moderates lack those ideas...
4
Bernie Sanders got me to my feet last night when he congratulated Jake Tapper for regurgitating big insurance taking points. Then he told the audience that those same companies will be advertising on CNN, during the debate.
Bravo, Mr Sanders, a candidate who is NEVER afraid to touch the third rail. Warren is a close and much beloved second. I would be thrilled to have either of them in the White House.
That debate was a failure, on my opinion, because ALL the questions were asked straight out of Trump and GOP talking points, thereby legitimizing right wing disinformation to a national audience.
Why don’t Democrats refuse to engage when questions are phrased, “you want to take health care AWAY from 150,000,000 people”
If a Democrat on that stage replied SHAME on CNN for perpetuating such falsehoods, he or she would get a standing ovation. Bernie came close. Next time he has to throw a knockout punch.
All candidates must refuse to raise their hands to gotcha questions, and all must refuse to engage in petty catfights instigated to boost ratings for the networks. We have a Racist Maniac in office and yet spent 45 minutes letting Tapper suggest Democrats are raising taxes on the middle class and taking their health care away. Enough.
I hope tonight we see strong pushback against Tapper and Bash.
Sanders/Warren/Gabbard (VP)... and O’Rourke is really growing on me.
11
Unions struggle to negotiate better health coverage in the face of employers who hold the pursestrings because that’s all we’ve got. As a union family we pay high premiums, have limited choice, rarely see our primary physician due to unavailability, and must fight the insurance company to actually provide coverage on our claims. Upon retirement our union-negotiated premiums will go up 400 percent - subsuming almost all of my monthly Social Security payment. Universal single payer health care for all is not anti-union!
52
Since all of the Dem debates so far have focused entirely on Bernie's ideas, it's clear that he's the true leader: the leaders' leader.
11
The US cannot create an affordable public health plan because it cannot negotiate triage to limit what is spent on futile treatments.
He also signed the Declaration of Independence. Dems need to go younger. Public Option buy-in is the way to go, USPS vs. Fed Ex model - you have a choice, one costs more but gives you better service.
Sanders can write any kind of a bill he wants. Passing the bill is what counts. If he and Warren insist on Free Everything, we'll have 4 more years of Trump. The moderates have a much better chance of beating Trump.
Sanders has to make much clearer to the entire country just what Medicare for all will deliver, how it will be paid for, how it will replace what those lucky enough to now have excellent health insurance through their employer will get the same quality of health insurance through the Medicare For All plan, how premiums will be paid through the tax system, and how money now paid by employers to private insurance companies will be paid into the tax system instead to support Medicare for all. Workers themselves will probably pay less in the final analysis than they now do. It's not some wild idea. This is what citizens in enlightened countries like Canada now have. Billions now spent on administration of insurance plans and payments can actually be spent on health care delivery instead. Those now working for private insurers can be retrained to become real health care workers instead of being parasites on the health care delivery system.
4
People are confusing Insurance and Healthcare.
Insurance, Mr. Delaney and Mr. Ryan, is not healthcare. It's a way of paying for healthcare and spreading costs, but is not in and of itself, healthcare.
Healthcare from the government (Medicare for All or Single Payer) is not insurance. It's healthcare.
Mr. Ryan, no one likes their heathcare insurance, they just like it better than having none at all or having even worse healthcare insurance. People simply want healthcare, not the insurance wrapper designed to make it hard to get at.
My question is this: What IS "healthcare", and who gets to define it? If the gov't gives us Medicare for All, does it cover abortion? Contraception? Which elective procedures? Over-users? Runaway tests? And what happens when administrations change and their views on specifics changes?
4
90.4% of US citizens have medical coverage. Of the 9.6% not covered, half chose not to. So the left wants to blow up our HC for less than 5% of the population. People from Canada are coming to the US to get procedures done because A) waits are too long or B) they are told they are too old & it isn’t a good investment. Does Healthcare need some work, Yes. Does it need to be Medicare for all, No. Medicare for All would raise middle class taxes $ 500-$1000 month for worse care than they are receiving now. If you thought Obama lost the most Democrat congressional seats in history, this would actually beat it.
Sander would absolutely destroy Trump in a head-to-head. I really fail to see why John Delaney is not a Republican. Talking about how he "understands the healthcare business" is what a Republican would say. This is nonsense.
I think most people in this country, and certainly those who have had serious illnesses, understand that healthcare should not be viewed as a business. Just like prisons, the military and many other functions of our society, for-profit corporations have no business running healthcare. The rest of the developed world found that out a long time ago.
12
The leaked DNC emails back in 2016 proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it is the DNC (and the behind the scene puppet masters) who pick the candidate - not the populace. It will be interesting to see who they pick this time, and why.
16
The candidate who raises the most money gets the most press.
All the talk about old white man Biden sounding feeble. Then there is Bernie and all the talk about old white man Sanders sounding angry. Making it about ‘old white men’ isn’t going to win Democrats the White House.
5
@AG: Trump is an old white man who acts like a child.
No, some aid wrote the bill, and like everything-Bernie he’s talked but done little else as a Senator forever. No significant accomplishments or collaborations but this late-career celebrityhood as a wacky spoiler.
4
He has put Medicare for All front and center of our issues.
3
Also, inner city and depressed rural areas *deserve* new corporate and grant I initiatives involving internships and computer training programs for o other reason than being a part of the US and striving for all US youth and areas to be given a chance.
Instead, the Democrat re is to smuggle in Central Americans and lavish them with comforts to win their votes. US children may be killed innocently as a result of burgeoning gang activity in Brooklyn,for instance, but the call-to-action for Dems and their supporters at Guatemala, Honduran and other Central American children temporarily separated from illegally entering parents.
2
Uh, Bernie? You don't OWN the bill, okay? And people have a right to weigh in on it. It will be consulted upon, and changed, sorry. Maybe hearing aids won't be on it. We'll see.
The Progressives (Warren/Sanders) are both right and wrong about universal healthcare. "Medicare for all" may be a catchy phrase but it is a terrible one. The Democrats need to get behind ONE concept and find better language. The concept is universal, affordable and equal access to healthcare for all people in this country.
Here is our system today. Two men of about the same age are walking around with the same health condition.
Man #1 goes to his doctor for his annual physical which is covered by his private health insurance. He receives an early diagnosis and consults his physician about treatment. His odds are best if he heads to Mayo or Cleveland or MD Anderson so he does. He has some coinsurance he has to pay out of his HSA account. He receives treatment and is fine.
Man # 2 does not have a doctor. He has coverage under the ACA but it includes a $10,000 deductible. He may understand that a medical check up is not subject to the deductible but he knows he can't afford $10,000 if they find anything. He eventually ends up in the emergency room when it is too late to treat his condition. He does not survive. His family is stuck with huge bills from the ER and goes bankrupt.
Why on earth do we allow this to continue to happen?
I'll tell you what - THIS is why Bernie is so f*&@ing angry. He has been fighting this for 40 years.
5
@Carol E
And this is why Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders will be our 46th President, and the runner-up our Vice President; it makes no difference as long as one of them is President, and I'm confident one or the other will be our 46th President.
4
People have been telling me a long long time to really listen to Sanders. His oration style predisposes me personally to stereotype him.
But the debate did force me to slow down and consider the message. It actually put some other debaters in a curious light, in my mind: yes, maybe you ran a successful business in healthcare, and perhaps it was essentially a ripoff. (Doing research for Request for Proposal in the healthcare quality field, I was awakened to stories like the editor's friend who had the wrong leg amputated.)
Sanders and Warren have, if nothing else, walked the walk.
17
Sanders and maybe Warren are our only hopes for a democratic future. The "it's a fairy tale" moderates (Republicans in Democratic clothing) want the status quo, because THEY benefit from it. Not the 99%.
Sanders and Warren speak to the 99%, who, by the way, happen to represent nearly ALL of this nation. It's time the 99% mattered in U.S. elections, instead of status quo pols and their lobbyist owners.
99
@Veda I find your completely unfounded label of "republican" the opposite of helpful, and an embrace of the mentality that "if you're not one of us, you're against us.", often utilized by the right ("send her back", anyone?)
Just because some candidates are not backing policies on the far left, that doesn't mean they deserve being labeled as being "THEM" on the right.
1
Although I agree with Sanders' ideas, I am not sure these massive change ideas are what he should base his campaign platform on -- especially if it enables a possible Trump victory. Maybe a better strategy would be to play centrist ball, pivot to the middle a bit, then, once elected, reach for consensus on the more "socialist" ideas. The goal: beat Trump in 2020, THEN, once in office, change what you can for the better.
2
Bernie remains awesome, Liz is awesome too. The pair together as a ticket would be unbeatable.
17
@P
With Warren at the top of the ticket!
All us young people love Bernie. He is the kind of role model young people learn from, so we can start having a vision for life and community around us. How many of today's politicians are this relentless in giving education in every conservation that he makes. Bless him for his undying energy, and his persistence in the pursuit of fixing the system.
24
The pundits who label the proposals by Sanders and Warren as unrealistic and dangerously "progressive" are overlooking the fact that what Sanders and Warren are essentially proposing is the restoration of the economic and social balance that existed prior to the rise of Reagan. When I graduated from Cal State University Los Angeles in 1972, the full-time tuition for my final quarter was $61. And I'm estimating that the cost of my entire four years of college totaled less than $2,000, including tuition and books. So, I graduated without any debt. My first job after college paid $90 per week, and my take home pay was $72.44 per week. But the rent on my modest but attractive one bedroom apartment in a middle class suburb of Los Angeles was just $90 per month, so I was able to save $100 per month. It's that type of balance across the economic and social spectrum that we need to restore.
24
@Peter
What went wrong was easy to obtain government student loans. Young people too naive to see the trap and universities recognizing a ever increasing largess. Raise tuitions 10, 20, 30%.
Here's what I saw. Ryan calmly making his points, Sanders responding red-faced and shrill. And Sanders' intolerance for disagreement is just as stark and worrisome as Trump's. Note that anyone who disagrees with him is a murderer (Pharma execs), a criminal (oil and gas execs), or a racist (the Republican Party). And regarding the "writing" of the bill, the real question is how many bills has this Senator ever "written" and had passed. If "writing" counts, I will be sending my unpublished manuscript for inclusion on the Times book list. Sanders simply appears angry, entitled, and intolerant.
9
Well, then, you really don't get it. The younger generation, as well as many in my age range, over 65, agree with him, wholeheartedly. All of the things Bernie claimed are correctly stated by him. What is wrong with calling drug companies which deliberately misuse their power, with lives lost as a consequence, "murderers "? This is white collar crime. He's shrill? I never heard anyone say that about him. He sure is forceful! His millions of supporters and I find him to say what we think, and to say it with appropriate emotion.
7
>>> "Note that anyone who disagrees with him is a murderer (Pharma execs), a criminal (oil and gas execs), or a racist (the Republican Party)."
Are you saying that you can't handle the truth? Or do you just think that America can't?
5
Sanders is particularly good at creating successful soundbites with the D word.
I love Bernie because he:
is torally comfortable in his own skin
(Donald is not and is embarrassingly immature and insecure)
unapologetically says what he thinks
(as does Trump, but look at the difference in their thought processes!)
is a refreshing no-nonsense combination of Brooklyn + New England Vermont
(Trump speaks before he thinks, and truly appears incapable of imagining the consequences of his impulsive, impetuous id and poorly conceived ideas)
demonstrates clearly that age is a state of mind not a birthdate
(Trump, age 73, also demonstrates that age is not a state of mind, but Trump's so-called mind functions more like a preschooler; however, your average preschooler has a far greater sense of right and wrong and caring than does Trump.
Last night at the debate I tried to imagine which Democratic candidates could not only withstand Trump's stupid preteen mean-girl insults, but whose maturity and demeanor would show Trump to be the fool that he is and backfire right back on Trump.
Bernie could pull it off. Why? Because he is the real deal (Vermont) and takes no guff (Brooklyn)
My hunch is many undecided voters may disagree with Bernie's medicare for all plan. But lots of American voters vote for personality over policy. Many most want a president who will stand up and protect us, and Bernie would do a much better job than Trump.
Note: I like Elizabeth Warren most, but she did not do well handling Trump's ludicrous Pocahontas indignity.
Who can beat Trump?
12
Bernie looked like a crazy man at times: eyeballs popping out, licking spittle off his lips, waving his hands. I know he was trying to act vigorous and young at heart, but he looked like he was about to have a heart attack. Not to pick on his age, but pragmatically, it is something to consider. Warren seems a bit healthier.
6
Warren MUST rethink her immigration policy. It would serve her well to proffer an alternative to her current policy which doesn't come across as disingenuous (as Biden's U-turns do). She has to show us a crecible alternative that won't compete with the $$$ she wants to spend on Medicare for all or free public college. I fear that this immigration irrationality will allow Trump to defeat any Democrat in 2020. We need progressive policies but this immigration nonsense (free healthcare for all who enter illegally?) isn't progressive, it's pandering and perilous to the rule of law and to the Democrats.
5
Warren's proposal for free health care for the undocumented is much more affordable than paying for delayed emergency care. I think she is right.
Bernie has all the experience in government and all the class I require for my POTUS.
BERNIE ALL THE WAY!
21
Hugo Chavez’ ghost is watching from the shadows and laughing
Bernie was a long time vocal supporter of Hugo Chavez’ disastrous policies in Venezuela. Scary.
5
Source, please.
4
If you like the service you get at the DMV, you'll like government health care.
Then there is government pest control and garbage collection in Baltimore...
4
Well, how come government run health care in Canada and the UK are untouchable sacred cows for the voters? They overwhelmingly want universal, governmental health care, to this very day. And Americans love their Midicare.
5
@Martha I notice you failed to mention the VA. I do not think 160 million are begging to have employer-supplied care abolished.
I'm not a modern Dem, but places that haven't done so well for several years will get **absolutely zero** from business-as-usual Biden and Kamala. I'm referring to inner cities such as Baltimore, Chicago, non-Manhattan NYC, Detroit, areas of Los Angeles and SF, Oakland, as we as rural areas. At minimum , the residents get a boost from Trump's economic efforts and I'm inclined to give Bernie the nod of all of the Dems.
Warren scares me on economic issues and money flight is nigh if there's a ticket with Warren.
The damn bill needs to pass House and Senate, to have gone through reconciliation, and be signed by the president. And be implemented by the president's bureaucrats. And funded by the immensely complex federal budget process. So far, all Sanders has done is put into draft language a one-house bill that almost no-one has read. And waved his arms and shouted slogans. So far, MFA is a will-o'-the-wisp. The media loves these noisy debates because they're a cash machine. The damned pesky voters will have their (decisive) turn in six or seven months for the primaries and 15 for the general election. Then we'll see where MFA and Bernie et al have landed.
2
@Tom the professors and teachers have to keep repeating and repeating and shouting, till it registers in the kids muscle memory. Somebody needs to make lot of noise, only then all the dormant people will wake up from their fantasy world and go out to vote!
1
Something I wish came across: if union members are guaranteed great coverage via Medicare for All, their healthcare is no longer a damn bargaining chip and they’ll be free to focus much more on other issues like higher wages and safer workplaces.
Rather than clutching their pearls they ought to be seeing opportunity just like virtually everyone in the working class will benefit from Medicare for All.
14
"... we’ve talked about taking private health insurance away from union members in the[ industrial Midwest], we’ve talked about decriminalizing the border, and we’ve talked about giving free health care to undocumented workers... “I quite frankly don’t think that that is an agenda that we can move forward on and win.”
Americans prefer GLORIOUS LIES about: 'Big Beautiful (and cheaper)healthcare-for everyone, coal plants reopening; American Companies coming back to the U.S.- WALLS; Big Beautiful Infrastructure... Big,Beautiful LIE-AFTER-LIE...with no demand for details. YOU can have everything...and won't lose a thing.' (And it worked.)
I just wish candidates would tell-it-like-it-is; the only one willing to do so is Bernie Sanders. I also wish candidates would stop pandering to one voter segment; the shrinking numbers of traditional/smokestack union members in the Mid West who believe their way of life is the only one at risk. We all are. The concerns (and selfishness) (which they didn't have with the current huckster at the W.H.) are born from fear that if "others receive" "I'm gonna lose."
At this point, I'm sick of hearing and reading about the Electoral States of America and the tailored messages just for them
2
I'm very happy that Sanders and Warren believe so strongly in their policies . I hope that Americans will choose one of them to go up against Trump. They have the bold ideas for change we need,are brilliant geniuses compared to Trump and are not afraid of him. I love that Sanders calls him a pathological liar. Either one has my vote. I want a person of integrity,intelligence and guts to beat Trump and I and thousands of others, want more than Joe Biden is offering or can give.
10
Best moment in the whole debate. That and when Bernie called out Jake Tapper’s absurdly skewed questions and then pointed out that they could have been scripted by the same for-profit medical industry that will be running ads on CNN later that night. Too much for Mr. Tapper apparently, who needed to hear more from that sizzling centrist superstar John... Delaney? The guy who made a fortune how? Oh right.......
13
The knee slapper of the night was the contention that "free stuff" does not attract. Really! That's a good one!
1
Only in America do we complain that we don't have enough choices for our cable and internet providers, but we want only want one choice for our health insurance......think about it.
5
Only in USA do people never look abroad for tried and working solutions.
Lack of knowledge or fear of the realization that your country is not the first of the class on most non-military subjects?
As Bernie pointed it out, it's not like Canada is on an other continent..
3
We pay the WORLD’s HIGHEST PRICES and place 27th for outcomes! Yet SO many are fighting to keep a bloated, greed filled inefficient system! Having a healthcare system tied to a job, which you will loose should you become seriously ill is a great deal ONLY for the For Profit insurance companies! What is needed is strong price controls - as in all other first world countries so a vial of Insulin that costs $4 to make can not be sold for $375! Check the price of any drug you take with Canada- - it’s obscene. And the insurance companies’ treatment protocols are designed for their bottom line. We don’t have to buy the greed. Nixon made our healthcare system ‘for profit’ and it was a mistake. Too many people can not get care. Wake up people!
9
Yes, let’s read the bill Bernie Sanders wrote. Premiums combined paid by employer and employee are 11.5 pct of employee’s income. If you and your spouse earn 100 k per year, you and your employer pay twice as much for the same insurance as someone who is earning 50k. If this is true, it is not fair or equitable. Sanders supporters, what say you?
3
Is any Democratic candidate actually insured by Medicare? At 72, I have 7 years of experience with Medicare. It is neither as comprehensive nor as inexpensive as the “Medicare for all“ folks claim, especially when compared to the health insurance of my working years. When our Senators and Representatives are insured by Medicare instead of the Cadillac version of health insurance they all enjoy, then I will be willing to accept them as experts on the value of Medicare.
BTW, is anyone going to mention that Vermont, under the influence of Bernie, tried to adopt a version of “Medicare for all” but could not make the numbers work without bankrupting the state?
3
Bernie Sanders authored a total of two successful bills during his time in Washington D.C.
I think both were for the naming of post offices.
4
I used to be for some form of single pay HC. Something along the lines of what most of Europe and Canada has. Not anymore. I'm in a vindictive kind of mood these days and hope that the sixty million who voted for Trump NEVER have decent healthcare. Trump will be able to phone in a victory as the Dems push for "free" college, debt forgiveness for debts accrued for college. Open borders, etc. Americans settled for guns over butter long ago and this is why we can't have nice things.
3
All Senator Sanders needs to do at this point is relieve the public perception, among some, that he's for open borders & he will truly surge.
Virtually all polls show him beating Trump in a head to head match up. Now is the hour to beat back the establishment props & those seeking to engender division under the Democratic tent. Republican light loses. Bernie 2020.
6
A progressive would motivate people to go to the polls to vote Trump out of office. A moderate would not (as proven in 2016).
5
Bernie is not the only one throwing his hands up! The democratic electorate are throwing their hands up-they cannot stomach Bernie’s persistent call to arms-his insistence that his way is the only way.They are coming to realize that this 77 year old has rigid ideas and is willing to shout himself out of a confrontation.That is not so different than the 72 year old occupant of the White House who always declares himself right.The substance of their issues is different but the insistence on absolute adherence to their ideas is not.
3
Sanders and Warren are authentic.
The rest are just trying to climb the political ladder.
And just wait till you make a claim to your healthy insurance company, whether they pay up or not, you will be dropped like a hot potato.
5
I am amazed that the most richest and powerful country in
the world doesn't offer universal health care to ALL its citizens!! We offer millions and millions of dollars of aids to other countries, send military to help other countries, but when it comes to giving health care to OUR own, we don't have money. Almost all major countries offer universal health care and infact their health outcomes are even better!!. This shouldn't be even be a debate topic.
And stop saying 'reasonable' policy measures. How many millions dying out of insurance sounds reasonable?
Bernie is passionate and speaks with conviction. Staying level headed and calm won't change anything! If Martin Luther king was calm and never raised his voice, nothing would have CHANGED!
6
Yeah, he wrote the bill. And most independents just plain don't like what he wrote. This isn't a battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic party: we'll vote for any candidate they put up. It's the middle we need to get on board, and they really don't like the label of "democratic socialist."
2
Sure, the progressive policies of Warren and Sanders might not sway some Dem voters. But they will sway plenty of Republicans, like all those who dislike Trump but voted for him anyway in 2016 because they felt he actually cared about people in the country who are struggling.
2
I was in a brand new $4 billion CAD hospital in Montreal last evening visiting my ailing aunt. In the cardiac unit where she is under treatment, patients have big rooms with city views, large accessible bathrooms, cheery and well-paid staff taking care of their needs. She has every test, procedure and prescription that Western medicine could hope to deliver.
The lying, snivelling moderates and Republicans continuously malign Canada’s health sector and they don’t know a darn thing about it. Universal healthcare works and is the backbone (with good education!) of a thriving, modern democracy.
9
@Philip Duguay
Nice try. It’s documented that annually 10’s of thousands of Canadians flee to the U.S. for healthcare issues. Just cannot wait in line for months and months to get treatments for cancer and other horrific diseases in the low cost Canadian system.
While they are still in the Senate, Sanders and Warren could try to do something good, example....lowering the ridiculous price of insulin. This might save many from future dialysis which the government does pay for and has to be more costly than insulin. Try to do one thing NOW that helps.....do not wait.
2
This reads to me as a continuing attack on Sanders by a Hillary bitter-ender.
We don't want just a Democrat. We want things, specific things. It isn't enough just to beat Trump, then compromise with McConnell by doing the same things.
It isn't about style, orange or otherwise. It is about substance.
Hillary lost, to Trump, before he was an incumbent with a good economy. Don't pretend that Hers is the safe way to a win against Trump.
2
In All the surveys, Bernie Sanders defeats Donald Trump...even if the media, specially corporate media does not back him or make him look as an old guy whose fantasies views do not go anywhere.
2
The moderates seem to be operating from fear. Senators Sanders and Warren seem to be leaders.
3
More empty promises. Free health care, free college, forgiving $140 billion in student loans.
Yeah right.
3
It's pretty clear those on the outer edges of this debate need to step down and support either Warren or Sanders. Hickenwho? The guy from Montana's name is? New post in government: spiritualist. Not that I disagree with Williamsons characterization of the underbelly. But I can just see the smudge pots and candles around the executive offices. Not going there. Nope.
36
@Kate McLeod They will step down when they fail to reach 5 percent in the polls and don't have the required number of donors to make future debates. Of the three you mentioned, Williamson is the most likely to make the next round. I say, good for her.
I admire Bernie because he has long been a truth-teller, that voice in the wilderness. I view Williamson as a truth-teller too. She's not likely to make the White House but I think it is time her voice is heard in places other than the self-help section of the bookstore. She's leading a different type of revolution than Bernie but it's a revolution none the less.
7
Sen. Sanders may be able to own the Democratic stage. But when it comes time for the Democrats to actually choose a nominee it's going to be exit stage left for Bernie.
4
Given the political atmosphere in this country, the media’s control of that atmosphere, and Trump’s antics control of the media, as much as I agree with the newly hatched idea of a Sanders/Warren ticket (which may be detoured a bit after the Wednesday night Dem panel) in which Sanders agrees to one term and then stepping down in favor of Warren taking the top spot on the ticket, I’d propose a more moderate approach with Biden/Warren of Biden/Harris with the same one term plan.
The country’s political animosity can only be overcome by someone the Senators respect and have worked with, and the US needs a statesperson to repair our relationships with historic allies. Biden is the person for those jobs. And Biden is the person to put us on an even keel again while a more progressive VP works behind the scenes to promote programs to make the US a greater place to live for the great majority of Americans.
Given a chance to get more familiar with actual programs being promoted by the more progressive candidates (instead of hearing they’re impractical, radical, or simply plain crazy coming out of the media and radical right Repubs), most Americans would see they’d be helped by them.
But we gotta get the country back into working condition first before we continue the American Revolution.
2
Oh come on!
Biden is Clinton 2016. He feels it’s ‘his turn’. With him in the race we’d have two entitled brats and that would give electors less of a choice. He is also too old. He has skeletons and makes gaffes (hugs anyone?) all the time. There are 340 million Americans. Biden should spend what time he has left with his family.
1
Bernie has been in congress for more than 29 years, and I don't believe he has anything to show for all his time there - no major pieces of legislation passed. He called for a "revolution" in 2016, and after Trump got elected I didn't see him and his soldiers out on the streets and in the barricades. Bernie is all loud talk.
8
@Mike C
As is trump.
1
I will remain opposed to "Medicare for all" until some one can authoritatively demonstrate *both* (1) that it will limit neither the range of coverage nor the flexibility in treatment now available to me and (2) that it will not cost me more. Campaign rhetoric and bombast is not authoritative, no matter how loudly people shout. Neither are campaign promises that are likely to evaporate in the harsh light of budgetary reality.
I recognize fully that I am quite fortunate to have good medical insurance, provided by a former employer to retirees and by Medicare, at a very reasonable price. And I believe firmly that we must make quality medical care and coverage made more widely available to people without such, and do so soon.
But the current rhetoric about "Medicare for all" is unconvincing in the extreme, being similar to assurances that we can start building the bridge now and worry about design specs later. That's not a good way to build bridges or make major national policy.
5
John, Americans spend 3 times per capita than Canadians on healthcare. You don’t need someone to prove it to you, just Google it. Insurance is not rocket science. You spread risk across a pool of insured fee payers. The larger the pool the less risk assumed by each party. You cut out all the useless middlemen (multi billion dollar, red-tape insurance companies who lobby on K Street in DC), and achieve big efficiencies.
I was in a brand new hospital in Montreal last night visiting my aunt in a cardiac unit. She has everything she needs. Her bill will be zero. The US media is packed with lies about universal healthcare. Come visit Canada, poke your head into a hospital and see for yourself.
1
@Philip Duguay I *have* visited some Canadian hospitals, as well as a few in Europe. I also understand the basic principles of insurance and recognize their is bloat in the US system. But achieving "big efficiencies" in costs is only one half the equation, maybe ultimately less than half. The other part is quality and flexibility of care. That remains to be demonstrated.
Good health to your aunt.
3
“I wrote the damn bill.”
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You alone, walking up hill during a snowstorm........
13
He did....
3
It would be nice if Bernie had ever spoken to anyone who works in medical insurance on the medical side and not the corporate side. Medicare is comprehensive. The out of pocket costs can be staggering.
4
@Doug R I am 74 and have had Medicare for 12 years, with typical maladies of aging. The out of pocket costs have in no way been staggering. In fact, quite manageable, and my sole income is SS.
5
"It would be nice if Bernie had ever spoken to anyone who works in medical insurance on the medical side and not the corporate side."
Oxymoron!
"Medicare is comprehensive. The out of pocket costs can be staggering."
That's something the Sanders Medicare for All program directly addresses -- dramatic reductions in those out of pocket expenses -- and truly comprehensive coverage.
It's not going to be the same old Medicare -- and that's why the private, for profit, price gouging, greedy health care industry is up in arms.
2
And the conservative Republicans thought Trump was too extreme to win the presidency. Americans don't want the same old approaches, no matter how extreme they may seem. "Democratic socialism" is more popular than the moderates let on and these policies will give power to the middle class!
12
Go Bernie! The clear winner!
22
Hugo Chavez’ ghost is watching from the shadows and laughing
Bernie was a long time vocal supporter of Hugo Chavez’ disastrous policies in Venezuela. Scary.
3
Why is the Handout Party so set on destroying ACA, the only national health plan we have ever had.
6
Rich, that's a rightwing Republican shibboleth!
ACA left 40 million people uninsured and 40 million or more underinsured. It was built around the private health insurance racket. Premiums keep going up dramatically thanks to the insurance industry.
Basic error, too. It was also NOT the first national plan -- Medicare and Medicaid came decades before it did.
A big problem is that ACA does NOT provide universal health care coverage.
We need to replace it with a fully public program, with greater benefits, lower cost, and universal coverage.
But then you don't really care about people having health care or that, in modern democratic societies, it is a fundamental right. You gave the game away by labeling the Democrats the "Handout Party" -- your ideology trumped reasoning, compassion, justice, and the facts!
1
Bernie needs an adjustment on his hearing aid as he's screaming his long winded responses.
10
There was one candidate on the stage who had the guts to tell the world, in plain English, "Trump is a pathological liar."
27
The notion that anyone can write a bill to create a transformation equivalent to God decreeing the universe into existence is just arrant narcissism as blatant as Trump's. Building a seriously better health care system is a complex step by step evolutionary process.
9
He did write the bill...
2
I still feel the Bern!!!
30
@Lee Downie - I second that!!!
1
He sure did write that bill, and he's been carrying that flag for 40 years. I guess he knows what he's talking about.
20
“...and we’ve talked about giving free health care to undocumented workers when so many Americans are struggling to pay for their health care,” he (Ryan) said.”
Thanks Ryan for perpetuating the “gotcha moment form the previous debate when Tapper set up the candidates for a Sophie’s choice of giving illegals emergency care or letting them die in the streets.
There were two Democrats, a New Age something, and 7 Eisenhower Republicans on the debate stage last night.
I predict a Bernie/Warren ticket that will soundly beat Trump in 2020
24
ROFL
Hugo Chavez’ ghost is watching from the shadows and laughing
Bernie was a long time vocal supporter of Hugo Chavez’ disastrous policies in Venezuela. Scary.
1
@Feed The Hungry - Hugo Chavez was the only leader in his countries pathetic past that did anything for the indigenous people.
If it weren’t for all the CIA subterfuge Venezuela would be in fine shape.
So, there.
2
We know that a progressive candidate like Warren or Sanders provides the vision that the country needs. The argument that America won't buy their big ideas ignores the power of the bully pulpit, the educative power of a well tuned political campaign. By signing the petition below you can put the DNC on notice that only a progressive candidate will earn your support. If you agree w its premises, please be sure to share with like minded individuals http://chng.it/qGfJRXVpRs
11
Bernie Sanders has had lots of grand ideas and written many Bills that went nowhere.
Further, he did not "own" the stage. He ranted and turned red and bug-eyed. Is he ever anything but angry and ranting?
"I wrote the damn bill" is just a pre-planned line for the media based upon his success with "I don't care about her damn emails".
It's amazing that more people don't see what a shallow act he has. Wind him up and he always does the same thing.
Meanwhile, more thoughtful and competent candidates like Gov. Hickenlooper get overlooked in our obsession with being entertained.
12
What a meaningless circus this is. Is there another country in the world that has our bizarre, TV ratings-driven system of choosing potential presidential candidates? It's embarrassing. How do people even watch it? I can barely stand to read about it. And why the crowing over "I wrote the damn bill"? It was a nonsensical answer that failed to rebut the remark that he, in fact, doesn't know all the union contracts. Bernie looked like the fool again, the crazy old man everyone loves to watch but won't vote for. And that's sad.
9
What a scene stealer. What a block head. What a "my way or the highway" fool.
I tuned out in the second hour when all I could see was Bernie, Bernie, Bernie. Yell, yell, yell. Demand, demand, demand. I'm an entitled white man, hear me roar.
The moderators did a very poor job.
I get it.
In Bernie World it's all about Bernie and what Bernie wants. No one else has a say or exists.
The sooner he is out of this mix the better. What did Dems ever do to be saddled with this horrible, self absorbed, liberal version of Donald Trump?
13
In all his years in the Senate how many major bills did Sanders write and get passed?
Great sound bite for a journalist like you.
Meaningful. No.
12
They both seemed unhinged to me, but Bernie looked like he might have a heart attack at any moment. On the other hand, they both make good points.
3
Why is Medicare treated as the model for good health legislation? I'm 64, preparing to sign up for Medicare, and it's a mess. Four pieces ( bureaucratically labelled A, B, C, D) with different and complicated schedules for when you can sign up. Part D, created by the Republicans 15 years ago, has been nicknamed the "doughnut" because there is a hole in the middle where benefits go down and then back up. Since private insurances are allowed to be involved, my phone is ringing off the hook with telemarketers trying to sell me their version.
I suspect Democrats like it because it's the only plan they're familiar with. They never bother to study other countries' insurance systems to see whether they have better ideas. American exceptionalism, you know.
7
@CharlesbalphaYou can always refuse it.
1
@Jake
So this another love-it-or-leave-it situation where people have no right to criticize a government problem? Particularly when Democrats are talking about putting everybody on it?
Bernie Sanders is just an angry old man who thinks he is entitled to be president, in my opinion. He promises everyone everything knowing good and darned well that Republicans will NEVER let his ideas get passed. THAT is not what this country needs at this time. We need a calm, confident, articulate person who doesn't look like a crazy man screaming and getting angry when someone questions him.
10
@catmomtx
In 2016 63 million American voters including 58% of the white voting majority gave an Electoral College majority to a young svelte virile smart wise clever calm sensible combination of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt and we all lived happily ever after??
What's the matter with Texas?
Too many Texans like Ted Cruz, John Cornyn, Greg Abbott, Louie Gohmert, W, Rick Perry...
No wonder Benjamin Netanyahu and Vladimir Putin and Mohammed bin Salman haven't stopped smiling and smirking.
No collusion! MAGA!
In the unlikely outcome of Bernie Sanders winning the nomination and going on to defeat Trump we will have the lefts version of Trump. Now I know that will be misread, the implication being that Sanders is as vile a person as Trump is. But nothing could be further from the truth. What I am saying and I wish my fellow liberals / progressives would hear & understand is that he will be as polarizing and ineffectual in his own way as any reactionary republican. President Obama was a centralist and still couldn’t cement his legacy in a way that would last. Why in a country as closely divided as we are do we think that Sanders will do any better? That’s not realistic. In 2018 the democrats made a convincing argument that health care and its mind numbing complexity & cost needed addressing. We should be continuing that conversation with modifications a majority of our fellow citizens can understand & support, not Medicare for all. The argument about the carnival barker in chief & liberal orthodoxy posturing will undermine this opportunity. Trump is toxic and infects everyone and everything he touches including his opposition. In this environment reaction and counter reaction is becoming the norm, I want a president that can help tame the monster our political process has become not make it worse. Personally I want a more moderate version of Warren (the one who understands governing) not one pushed leftwards by reaction to Trump. Being purists is a losing game, please stop playing.
3
@John Chastain
Very valid points, looking at things from a purely -realistic- political perspective.
AND, from a personality perspective, speaking as someone who is in Bernie's age range - he is too damned old. He was too damned old 4 years ago. He acts and speaks and rants like an angry old man........
2
“For ALL...” be it health insurance, education, retraining for jobs with a future, salaries enabling daily living and not types of survival, affordable housing, equitable sharing of available and accessible human and nonhuman resources which are critical for developing and sustaining types, levels and qualities of wellbeing, justice and not ummenschlich laws, regulations and control-conditions, are little more than mantras in a toxic WE-THEY culture which enables violating, by words and deeds, creating, selected, targeted “ the other!” Personal accountability by ALL and for ALL, as a daily value, norm, ethic, enabled and fostered by civility, mutual respect, mutual trust, mutual caring and mutual help is needed. Mantras of semantic surrealism, and numbers representing people and promised sources for change are not effective passable bridges to overcome “ism” and human barriers to toxic complacency and complicity. To willful blindness. Deafness. Willful ignorance. To paralyzing Silences when empowering focused outrage is needed to contribute to make a range of social, economic, political differences which will enable achievable needed sustainable differences.Accountability was missing last night. Also missing as a word-value-guideline in the Constitution. Never tweeted by the DC “swamper,” or mentioned by his diverse minions, good folk though they may BE! Accountability for “kidnapped” children in trauma inducing camps! For challenged environments. For racism! FOR...
1
If “owning the stage” is being loud and obnoxious, then yes, Bernie owned the stage. Yet Trump is loud and obnoxious, so is this what we want from our Democratic candidates? Was Obama loud and obnoxious? No.
I’d rather have civility rather than trying to emulate Trump.
10
So what bill did he write? And what happened to it? And isn’t this the perfect example of how out of touch these two New England senators are? They believe that writing a bill solves everyone’s problems. There is not space here to list all the bills written in Washington and even passed and signed that do not work as intended or are not enforced or inadvertently became an opportunity for evil pharma to make even more profits. Like Warren with her endless policy proposals these two live in a bubble. Sure nominate one of them and they will win about ten liberal states loaded with college graduates and we will have four more years of Republican mayhem.
7
Here in Iowa, you can bump into a candidate right now by just walking down the street. One of today's crop of Bernie Bros was quoted as saying that if Bernie isn't the nominee, he'll sit out the election. That attitude is one of the things that got us Trump, so to all the Sanders supporters, please don't let your enthusiasm for him blind you to the consequences of your fealty if he isn't the nominee. Personally, I get tired of his schtick; don't really want to replace Trump's racism with Bernie's perpetual anger. He's a very effective agitator but maybe not so effective a leader.
9
"Many Democrats fear..." Fear a handful of super rich supporters of Trump? Fear, the uneducated? Fear losing? Fear developing logical, rational, just, policies that attempt to accept the state of the nation and express a desire to do better? That may be the way it is, but it will be the death of us.
What's astounding is calling the Sanders platform "immoderate" and the Trump/GOP platform "moderate".
The GOP has been brainwashing Americans and American media for decades and now their "protect the 1% like royalty" agenda gets called "moderate" --even in NYT.
Astounding. "Moderate" implies "perfect"--the perfect amount/degree of whatever--neither too much nor too little.
The US distribution of wealth due to property, tax and labor law is obviously "immoderate." The 1-10% get way too much; the 90% get way too little.
Sanders wants to correct that, and gets called "immoderate" by would be democrats--obviously shilling for the top 10%--moneylords.
8
Hugo Chavez’ ghost is watching from the shadows and laughing
Bernie was a long time vocal supporter of Hugo Chavez’ disastrous policies in Venezuela. Scary.
1
"... and the people roared."
I am a Bernist whatever we're called but the guy won't make it to the top now unless he can overcome two big obstacles: 1) his look, appearance, what we see, and 2) no proof yet his ideas can work (that same obstacle applies to Warren, as well). All Trump supporters who are truly serious about the direction of this country have to be enlightened how Bernie would be President today had his very own "family" not turn against him. Notwithstanding Neera Tanden, Wasserman-Schultz and any straggling Clintonites, if the old gray-haired guy can bring in a few more sheep this time, I think he would be a really great President. What Bernie represents is where we're going to be in a few years, anyway. Why not give him some time now?
1
Warren and Sanders are the only true Democrats running. The rest are corporate - health care and otherwise - shills. We must take their case to the people in November 2020.
14
Until there is a health issue or crisis, most American's don't yet realize how bad their insurance has become. This is true of both public and private insurance. The deductibles, copays, co-insurance and limited doctor/healthcare choices makes it financially onerous for anything but catastrophic care. People made to choose between paying rent or skipping care altogether because its simply no longer affordable under Obamacare. I totally understand why people are fighting to hold onto their Cadillac rich private or union protected insurance but we must think about the shared cost of not affording an affordable baseline level of humane care for everyone. Mr. Sanders and Ms. Warren must quantify this data and own the truth that is the failure of Obamacare. Corporations pay less, people pay more, in taxes and actual dollars. How much does it tax our system, and corporate America, when people can't fill a prescription, pay for diagnostic testing they need in order to prevent costly and devastating disease? What economic or social purpose are we serving when we choose healthcare winners and losers? Do we intend for only the rich, union or privately employed to survive? Under the current paradigm and the one advocated by Moderates, there has never been greater incentive for employers to reduce their healthcare spend. What then? Progressives must quantify how these reductions have already impacted costs, mortality, and how they will only get worse as our population grows older.
18
@Underhiseye - well stated, but I would add the Sanders/ Warren path, while the best so far, would have to entail drastic cuts in Defense. I think to accomplish the ideal health care they promote, we would have to cut our global military posture by at least 50%. Who wants to do that? I think we should!
1
@willw if we eliminated the cost and geopolitical impact of retaliatory tariffs, economic war and posturing in Iran, Venezuela, and China, plus the subsidies that allow corporations paying zero and heavily discounted tax rates, and billionaires evading a fair share through off shore tax havens, we could more than afford true healthcare and public education security for all Americans. Let’s go after the real cost overruns and military/law enforcement boondoggles before allowing more Americans to die of healthcare insecurity, of all things. Warren and Sanders have the data, truth, conviction and moral authority to mic drop this moment.
2
This question about health care as part of the pay of unionized workers has me puzzled. If as an employer part of the wage I am paying goes into health care, and that health care is abolished, do I get to pocket that part of the wage or the employee? Surely the employe has to get his due. He will have to pay some sort of higher taxes to finance medicare for all, though.
2
@Kurt Kraus, and we ALL know how that will end. The worker gets NOTHING!! The worker looses!!
Has a government program ever come in below its estimated cost? Or its revenues ever exceeded the estimate?
2
Good for Bernie and Warren — my two favorite, and the most capable, candidates. They have energy, and can stand toe to toe with Trump.
When they get onstage with Biden, it I’ll be readily apparent how articulate, poised, and sharp they are compared with the former Vice President.
For those who believe they are “too left” and cannot be elected, just remember how the last election went... There are enough people in this country who despise Trump. The polls show it: they can both beat the current occupant.
19
@DavePo
Please remember the electoral college.
3
Easy to have one liners when your policies are designed for the debate stage, not for implementation.
Just as in the 2015 GOP debates, the moderates’ nuance is ...trumped... by the sound bites of the more extreme.
4
Bernie makes great theater. True, he may nudge or rather push the Democrats to the left including over a cliff. It is absolutely inconceivable that he could ever become President. But last night was his best performance.
1
Bernie Sanders is passionate, he has my attention
thus far.
17
What this says, is that Tim Ryan is just like Trump, he fails to check his facts before he opens his mouth.
Who ever gets the nomination needs to be a person who knows what they're talking about, we don't need another Trump.
5
Make up your mind.
Do you want political strength shown or not?
If you want Republicans to win play it safe with Amy or Biden.
I for one will not sit in the middle of the road.
It is Too dangerous.
Sanders/Warren
27
I’m judging this simply from the perspective of which of these candidates could handle the task of facing Donald Trump on a debate stage including dealing with his mind games and distractions.
I guess no one is questioning Senator Sanders energy level and mental fitness this morning. The old Burlington brawler can still take and more importantly throw a punch and keep it up all night long.
Can you imagine the poor kid from a rent controlled apartment in Brooklyn on stage debating the rich landlord’s spoiled kid from Queens? I can and I think it would be glorious in a blood on the floor no holds barred sort of way.
Kudos too to Elizabeth Warren who showed she can play with the boys and beat them at their own game. Agile, quick and relentless. She’s like a terrier on the hunt. She’d sink her teeth into his calf and not let go.
Pete Buttigieg came off as something of a peacemaker and I thought he brought up his military service very effectively. There’s no question in my mind that Trump will “go there” with regards to his sexual orientation. The question is does Mayor Pete have the strength of will to fight back?
I thought Governor Bullock came off well. If Biden falters he could very well move forward off this effort. He certainly looks the part and looks good on TV which matters a great deal.
13
the argument about union benefits is a red herring. few belong to unions, benefits are being cut particularly pensions. fighting for unions (I belong to a union) votes is not going to win anything.
12
Judging from the audiences' applause, Sanders and Warren were last night's winners in this debate.
25
Bernie Sanders is unabashedly pure and authentic. That’s why he appeals to millions young enough to be his grandchildren. It is critical for the Democrats to have a vision diametrically different from the destructive one Republicans have offered- Trump- for our country. Bernie provided them with that.
222
@R-Star
I find it revealing of Establishment media bias that a recent [7/19/19] Gallop poll showing Sanders, again, as being the most well liked candidate, got very little coverage... https://news.gallup.com/poll/260801/biden-sanders-best-images-among-democrats.aspx
President Bernie Sanders2020
with his courage, integrity and bold ideas,
A Future To Believe In
and a more thriving society
25
@R-Star
and as he did in 2016, will ensure a trump win in 2020.
10
@Brad
Perhaps I’m misremembering, but I thought Hillary Clinton ran against Trump in 2016, not Sanders.
20
He may well have written "The Bill" but the reality of American politics says it may well never get out of committee, let alone become the law of the land.
While the constitution was a departure from the articles of confederation, the reality is that it was actually incremental change, not radical change.
Yes, we have many Americans who want a comprehensive Single Payer system of medical insurance, but not enough to force the legislature to actually enact one. Perhaps enough to open up Medicare to those under 65 who want it.
The Absolutists are not going to decide the election in 2020, it will be the swing voters in the middle and Single Payer Medicare for All isn't on their agenda.
I'm old enough to remember the "smoke filled rooms" that used to determine who each party put forward as a candidate. I'm beginning to wonder if, entertaining as they are and good for TV ratings, that these mass slug-fests are actually turning voters off and deepening divides in the nation.
4
@George N. Wells
"While the constitution was a departure from the articles of confederation, the reality is that it was actually incremental change, not radical change."
I read, in a book on Madison, that he didn't expect the Constitution to last more than 50 years. At the end of the period he thought the lawmakers would examine the successes and failures of the Constitution and come up with a new, improved document. But 50 years later the US was in the middle of the slavery debate and afraid that the slaveowners' lobby would rewrite the document to suit themselves, so they had to stick with the original, flaws and all..
@Charlesbalpha, et al.,
The beauty of our constitution is that it can be, has been, and probably will be amended to correct/modify/adjust the way the document is both read and used. Therefore, it isn't the exact same document ratified in 1789 which only makes the case that it is, in point-of-fact, a living document. Not exactly what the "originalists" and "textualists" like to hear. The Preamble sets it all up because it is We the People who "ordain" the government and We the People are an ever changing organism that is nothing like our late 18th century forebears.
FWIW: The 14th and 15th Amendments addressed the issue of slavery quite well. Unfortunately many sessions of Congress have avoided the provisions of the second section of the 14th amendment and allowed states to abrogate the voting rights of their citizens while keeping them for proportional representation. A lot of states could lose seats in the house today if the 14th was enforced.
I can't remember what he had just said, but at one point during the debate, I said out loud "I love you Bern." I'm a 50 y.o. white woman who makes a little over 15 dollars an hour. He's the one who brought us to this point with his talk of revolution four years ago. And for that I'm grateful. Whoever wins the Democratic nomination, Bernie has really won. And now, I'm going to prepare for the Global Climate Strike September 20-27. Join us. Vive la Revolucion.
59
It's going to come down to a drawn out, epic, schoolyard slugfest with a racist bully from Queens. We know this.
Who will stand up to the withering attacks for 15 rounds and land the counterpunch.. The knockout blow.
Bernie Sanders. From Brooklyn.
70
@Billy
I'm sure Bernie can do this and I'm not so sure anyone else can.
20
@Billy - I believe you are correct there, sir!!!
10
@Billy
Wow.......I am looking forward to a Trump Sanders debate......it would not be fair.......Trump is not all that bright......he won't know what hit him. A Sanders/Warren ticket is a dream ticket for the USA and a nightmare for the Democratic Party lawyer/Wall Street/FIRE establishment.
15
Progressives must articulate and quantify the path to Insurance Neutrality. I can clearly see the economic way forward, how to win worker and corporate consensus, but no one seems prepared for the basic question of "How". How will we compensate and buy-out union protected workers who traded salary for future health insurance security? Can corporations collectively fund a Universal Health Savings Annuity that grandfathers currently protected union workers through the life of any remaining health benefits so that continuity of care can be maintained during a transition period? If they don't use their formulary allocation, they can draw on the unused cash, rewarding healthy living. I can think of many businesses who would welcome a chance to eliminate debt financed unknown future financial burdens, in favor of certainty and allowing all Americans health care security. Moderates like Mr. Bullock are right. No one should sacrifice what was promised. Conversely, we can't ignore the suffering of those without care and support. That costs all. We need to show the union worker how they're already paying, in the form of inflated cost/taxation that subsidize an insecure healthcare model. There is no reason, working in concert with private employers, who also need to better manage profits, wouldn't welcome an opportunity to offload these uncertain health costs in favor of a sure thing. The certainty of a mentally and physically healthy American workforce is Competitively priceless.
11
Two major developments in last night's debate:
First, Sanders and Warren are now a team. They synergistically support each other. Together they are much stronger than either of them are individually.
Most surprisingly, Marianne Williamson has emerged as a significant candidate who can be expected to participate in later debates. She takes a deeper view of the "dark psychic forces" underlying Trump. She too, is basically a progressive, and her candidacy will have the effect of strengthening Sanders and Warren.
14
@Caleb
Sanders/Warren
Warren/Sanders
15
@Caleb "Sanders and Warren are now a team." Wish I could vote for them as a team in the primary because choosing between them will be difficult.
The top 1% have about $40 trillion in wealth. That means we can afford all that Bernie and Warren are advocating without blowing up the deficit. And Republicans just gave away about $200 billion per year in tax cuts primarily for the rich, so let’s be clear about who’s irresponsible.
89
@David Doney - This perhaps far and away the most important issue/point that need to be addressed and talked about. These few thousand people that hold this $40 trillion have bribed and threatened politicians to craft laws that continually increase their wealth to such an extant that it is strangling the whole of society in America.
We are no longer a democracy, we are a plutocracy, just like is taught is most Ivy League schools (where they want their students to know the cold hard truth). The country is run not by the congress or even the President, but by a few thousand billionaires and their wants, wishes and desires.
This, above all, is what needs to be changed. Only Bernie Sanders has intention to do it. I like Warren, as most Bernie folks do, but she can be Vice President. Then, maybe we can have 16 years of prosperity for the middle class and decency toward the lower class; it would take at least that long to make any real or lasting change.
3
Bernie gave us Trump by refusing to get behind the Democratic nominee when he lost the primary in April.
"Bernie Sanders, Eyeing Convention, Willing to Harm Hillary Clinton in the Homestretch" May 18, 2016
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/politics/bernie-sanderss-campaign-accuses-head-of-dnc-of-favoritism.html
9
@Madbee No he didn't. He campaigned hard for Hillary: https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/bernie-sanderss-hard-fight-for-hillary-clinton
24
@Madbee Wrong! Bernie's capitulation to Hillary, knowing fully well that she did not stand a chance at winning. Her political life had been a disaster. No need to go into details; we all know what she had created during her long political life.
Bernie should have never compromised his convictions to support someone who was more war mongering that Trump himself and who was completely in the pockets of corporations.
5
@expat
Not really. And if he did, it was hard to notice with that constantly pained look on his face.
2
Can the NYT assign a reporter to look into Sanders' statement about how a health insurance company bought commercial airtime on the debate and then how quickly the CNN moderator shut his sentence down? I would like to know more about that.
71
This quote is up there with "It's the economy stupid". And, Tim Ryan was cooked, and put a fork in it, done. He showed one thing, he never read the bill; ouch!. Then again, how many people, in Congress, read the ACA before they passed it?
Sanders certainly got his point across that he has a better idea than the ACA. And that people, in Congress, still do not read the bills they are voting on. And, that Congress, should have forced the issue, for at least a public option, when they passed the ACA. By getting Joe Lieberman, President Obama, and Democratic leaders to convince him to vote yes, with the public option.
Last night, the clear liberal winners were Sanders and Warren. The clear pragmatic winners were Williamson and Bullock.
But, last night, Sanders had the quote of the night.
22
I’m sick and tired of the left being attacked for being on the left because the right wing wack jobs who are the minority have dragged this country into a wholly owned subsidy of corporate America. FDR would be called a communist, even Nixon would be assailed by Moscow Mitch for being too extreme for signing the EPA act and would block it.
The media doesn’t help and by the way, the NYT is and has never been a big supporter of the left. Anyone that thinks so is a willfully ignorant, right wing drone.
113
AMEN.
21
@Paulie
Except the one (and MAJOR!) thing you seem to forget is that a great many Americans aren't fans of a left agenda either.
And until they're able to realize that and somehow manage to bring them and everybody else on board -- they'll never win.
1
Bernie and Elizabeth were the only two Democrats on stage last night- the others were Republicans in Democratic clothes. The best comment of the night was made by Elizabeth, exhorting all of them by saying “when were Democrats afraid of doing something progressive and bold?”. MfA is an FDR/LBJ Democratic progressive real and practicable idea exactly like Social Security and Medicare. If all of those others on stage would have been around in the 30’s and 60’s, we would have neither of those social progressive institutions.
76
@Robert M. Koretsky Marianne Williamson is not a Republican in Democratic clothes. She was telling the truth as she saw it, including that racism is prevalent in every aspect of American life.
13
I've never been a fan of Senator Sanders.
However, he has admirable spunk - I'll give him that.
10
My dream ticket is Sanders/Warren, with Bernie serving one term and then handing over the reins to Elizabeth Warren.
After all, it’ll take at least a decade to salvage this nation from the 40 years of devastation wrought by the neoliberals and neoconservatives.
When thinking about the best candidate to take on Trump, imagine the juxtaposition of Bernie standing on a stage next to Trump.
Even people who don’t like Bernie acknowledge his integrity, decency and humanity, while Trump revels in playing the role of a bullying thug.
If the American people see Bernie standing next to Trump, the majority will feel a deep grief that our nation ever could have lost our compass to the extent that we have.
I believe that Bernie can beat Trump.
84
The actual concept of a legislator is to write bills that are actually voted on and passed into law, sometimes even debated. How's Mr Sanders Bill doing on those fronts?
6
What I'm looking for, and I'll be honest my favorites are Sanders and Warren ... are Big, Bold, Ideas.
I'm tired of the incremental, milquetoast policies offered by the Democrats and they're never ending trying to find compromise with a Republican Party that has no interest in governing with anyone.
Warren and Sanders in my view are Moderates. Democratic Moderates in the same vein as FDR and LBJ ... for Common Americans.
CNN and MSNBC seem to try and paint Sanders and Warren with the Socialist label ... Wasn't FDR and LBJ painted with that same moniker? Who wants to "give up" their Social Security and Medicare? Who will, in the future, think Medicare for All was a bad thing and how could Politicians in the past ever be against helping people.
I don't want Status Quo ... I want more ...
108
More than a million people have volunteered to help push through Senator Sanders' progressive agenda to FIX a broken political system! For instance: In the UK, people willing to become nurses are PAID while in training. Same with doctors! Because they are so needed, they are not also asked to run up student-loan debt, which in many cases forces them to go into high-income "specialty" fields of medicine because they can't afford to help people, for example, as a general practitioner in a rural or small town setting. All across the USA, we are experiencing what is ranked as the WORST health care of any top 10 nation. Its all paperwork aimed at DENYING CLAIMS! The only people satisfied with healthcare in the USA are the super-rich, who buy into cadillac care. 83 MILLION people are without healthcare or with insurance that has high annual deductibles and copays that often prevent them from going to a doctor or hospital until they are deathly ill because they fear going bankrupt. 500,000 families go bankrupt every year due to unpaid medical bills, and the majority had insurance when they first became sick or injured -- or started fighting with insurance companies to save the life of a child etc. It's NOT "healthcare." It's "managed illness for profit!" We CAN MAKE THIS CHANGE -- WE MUST!
43
How can Ryan criticize Sanders for yelling after he interrupted Sanders? Bernie would no doubt yell anyway. However, speaking over someone speaking out of turn is not only natural but appropriate.
With regards to Bernie being loud in general, some people are just loud talkers. Seinfeld even did an episode about it. I had one relative who could knock you of your chair just asking for the butter. His voice was permanently set as though he were shouting every word to a deckhand during a raging storm. There was no point in telling him to keep is voice down. That's the same thing as telling him to "shut up." The only volume control was mute.
Bernie is a loud talker.
12
Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat, let's not forget that.
7
@CMW ... he sounds more Democrat than the Corporate Establishment Democrats ...
FDR and LBJ were Democrats ... their Big, Bold, Revolutionary Ideas made ordinary Americans secure ... don't you want more of that?
15
@CMW
Phooey. I'm not worried.
3
@CMW
So what? He's not a republican, either. Nor a libertarian.
1
Firstly, I am not a conspiracy-theorist and I typically reserve my paranoias for my own back yard. Having said that, I felt that the narrative last night crafted by the moderators of this debate was flagrantly intended to help these rather conservative 'underdogs' cast doubts in the minds of voters about the progressive agendas of Sanders and Warren. If this were a television show and this debate was occurring mid-season, it would be the tipoff that the oft-disparaged liberal network was just as much in the bed of corporate overlords as their adversarial networks on the right. Of course, it is not a TV show, although the conversation does seem produced. As I opened with, I hesitate to allow myself to believe in these kinds of conspiracies, but it was hard not to see the strings operating the puppets - even down to premising questions in a Trumpian 'people are saying...'. Disheartening.
34
@Paul Miller
Wholly corporate owned mass media is NOT a conspiracy-theory -- it's what passes for "news" over OUR Publicly-owned Airwaves as 'what we (the people) want.'
Yeah, right. They only discuss symptoms -- and never Causes. They have their mountains of profits to maintain and Informing the Citizenry re: causes and effects is no longer of their concern.
There's just not enough Profit (for them) in it.
2
Bernie did not write the bill. Like every other bill it was written like a bad Hollywood script—by dozens of people including congressional staff, Bernie’s people and lobbyists, lots of lobbyists. And like most bull sponsors, it is unlikely that Bernie could provide a detailed explanation of “his” bill.
And if we are going to be honest about Bernie, we should stop treating him as a viable candidate. He made a splash in 2016 with his way to the left views. But like the rabbit in a long distance race, the rest of the pack has caught up to his liberal/socialist views and is going to leave him far back in the pack. Other Dems and their MSM supporters want to do it gracefully so they don’t alienate his young, emotional true believers. But they know he is toast and soon the polling numbers will show it too.
7
@ehillesum
Let us be honest.....HRC was the best candidate the democrats every had.......the most qualified.....definitely a viable candidate.
2
I love them both!
What I don't understand is that so many are obtuse to the benefits and much lower costs of the "Medicare for All" healthcare. The "taxed" payments for such would be far less than what families currently pay for health insurance - and they would receive better coverage and care. Do you generally hear those 65 and over complaining about their healthcare?
It's clear that the health insurance field will push back, hard, against losing such a money-making situation for themselves, but we people need to use our brains (and calculators, if we must) to see that we are clearly the losers in the current health insurance situation - and that Medicare or All (or similar) is more cost effective and a tried and true pathway to quality healthcare.
279
@scm Me, too! I would love a Warren/Sanders ticket, but of course the DNC would rather lose than run one. So I figure that by supporting them both, the odds of ONE of them making the ticket might increase.
What I wish is that the media and other Democrats would quit insisting that Medicare for all will "take away" private insurance. What it would do is to increase the pool of money to improve and extend Medicare. Some of my doctors won't even take it, because it pays poorly, and one has even gone to a fancy concierge practice.
The rich will always throw money at their providers, but the average American deserves better than a sky-high deductible and/or a policy that ignores basic needs like vision and dentistry. I have one well educated friend who is bankrupt due to cancer treatment. The treatment works for her chronic condition, but without her family, she'd be on the street.
48
Yes I hear it all the time. Having turned 65 recently with many friends also turning, the process of dealing with social security is nightmarish at best. Changing plans is a farce. Why is that? Probably because it is run by the government and is not a private company. I spent many many hours just trying to get coverage. Finally had to engage senator klobauchars help when an appeal went no where.
5
@Robert - it must be nice to have never had to deal with insurance companies. Because I have. I have spent HOURS on the phone with them because of their denial of benefits. I have been transferred so many times that I forgot which department I was in. Don't tell me how bad government run entities are. The insurance companies do this so they don't pay benefits. They need to go.
43
This article describes Bernie as having “often strained to stand out in an oversize field stocked with fresher faces.” Bernie Sanders, the front runner for months before Biden entered the race, and who is still consistently polling second. How can someone write this with a straight face when there are so many random with zero name recognition.
The “times pick” comment is some old guy saying “yeah, old man Bernie should step aside for a younger generation!” followed by a bunch of replies of 20-somethings saying they support Bernie. Polls time and again show young people support Bernie by a large majority.
It’s almost as if the corporate media doesn’t want someone elected who’s trying to take on large corporations!
119
@Erik
"It’s almost as if the corporate media doesn’t want someone elected who’s trying to take on large corporations!"
YUP!
29
@Erik
The corporate media would prefer Trump to Sanders.
They absolutely do not want anyone elected who would change the Establishment status quo.
21
Too much curmudgeon, too much Eugene Debs.
3
The damn Bill is not a Law. Big difference.
11
Mr. Sanders will only "own" the Democratic stage if he wins the nomination and everybody votes for him -- and only one damn bill won't do it.
8
So glad that Medicare for All clearly won the debate. I really wish those against it would have to show their donations from the health insurance corporations. No more premiums and deductions just a part of your taxes like primary education, fire and police, libraries and roads. Union members that have negotiated great insurance can continue to have full insurance while being able to renegotiate their health care benefits towards higher pay. A transition over 4 years is reasonable, while saving the country a lot of money in the process. People would no longer worry about changing jobs, starting a new business, bankruptcies and not getting the proper actual health care they need.
The Health Insurance backed politicians hits against Medicare for All, failed to land a blow and that is great news toward getting our country back on track again, and a sure winner against Trump, since the majority of people support it.
49
When it comes to healthcare coverage, let's keep it simple, ALL Americans should have the exact same coverage as our presidents, senators and congressional representatives and their families have..
58
@Independent American Why not?
2
@Maureen Hawkins, I don't understand your question. Why not what? Have the same exact health insurance coverage as our elected officials have?
2
I’m torn. I want to support an ethical person with vision but... sanders reminds me of every union leader I’ve ever dealt with. Willing to bring the whole company crashing down, that they didn’t build, in order to win a negotiating point.
They have universally been inflexible and uncompromising in my experience.
I love his ideas but what this country doesn’t need is a progressive with regressive behavior.
9
I am shocked that ageism seems to be the only -ism that is still perfectly politically correct. I think judging someone solely based on their their numerical age or wrinkles of their skin is wrong in the work environment as well as for the presidency. If you have a real criticism about Bernie like he doesn’t seem sharp or does not have enough energy or you don’t like his policies than fine but I hope none of you who think he should step down based on numbers never face ageism in your own workplace. Secondly, I appreciate experience from the older generation and don’t get this idea of promoting the young just for the sake of it. As a just 50 year old, I can’t believe how much my understanding has changed since I was 35 like Buttigieg. 15 extra years of reading the nyt, wsj, economist, talking to people, experiencing ebbs and tides and a recession. Young people were not even around when we thought Japan was going to buy up the country, the wall was coming down, Ross Perot warned of nafta sending the jobs to Mexico, we thought opening China was going to lead to great markets and democracy. I value someone older like Bernie with experience who has lived through even more than I have.
35
@Allright I agree!! Experience matters - a lot!! I will not go to a doctor just out of med school. Never!!! I want someone with experience! Bernie and Elizabeth dominated that stage inspiring confidence, at least for me, and I had been feeling that the Democrats had gone too far left. Those two were the ones that changed my mind.
15
@Allright
Bernie remembers who FDR was and what he tried to do. Just wnat we need if we are true democrats. Otherwise we are just Reagan light.... Why vote democratic when you can vote for the real thing......a Republican.
3
@Bette Andresen Ha! I am a doctor and I would not want to go to me right out of medical school. There is so much medicine that can't be learned in a book and there is so much instinct that seems to grow as you get older. I really hate the people that say "as a 75 year old I can say that I don't have the energy." Just because you are old doesn't give you a pass to be an ageist just like it is not ok for a person of color to be a racist.
Bernie and Warren showed what we in New England understand about progressive ideas: they have legs, and are popular with Americans when presented honestly.
The main attackers on the debate stage made it clear to this Sanders supporter that the centrists are on a suicide mission- we can nominate a brilliant, passionate, honest candidate with a deep history of truth telling, or we can nominate a centrist like Biden who will do as Hillary did: pay lip service to the progressive ideas inspiring the Democratic and progressive activists and then proceed to be the usual centrist Democrat who stands for nothing.
53
The national conversation about income inequality, the health care insurance rip-off, stagnating wages, corporate takeover of the government and the ridiculous cost of higher education all started with Bernie Sanders.
Were there any other Democratic candidates talking about these things in 2016? No, there weren't - but much of Bernie's platform has been absorbed by the leading candidates. The centrists (with the exception of Biden on name recognition) are bobbing in his wake.
I admire Tim Ryan for standing-up for unionized workers, promoting the value of unions and their right to hold onto their private health insurance. But I am a union member, and 31% of my pay and compensation is tied up in my healthcare. 31%! And the coverage isn't even that great. That's good money that could be used to hire more people, invest in new projects/materials or just go into my paycheck.
To this date I haven't heard one good reason from candidates or my neighbors WHY healthcare needs the insurance industry. Keeping healthcare insurance workers employed is not a good enough reason for the current paradigm.
When setting a platform, you stake out your ideal position and then work your way to the middle. You don't start in the middle.
Sanders was the only candidate on last night's stage that is beating Trump in the polls. Why is that?
The millenials are the largest voting block. Win them and win the White House.
I forgot now - who has the greatest millennial support?
81
@Jonny Boy Thanks for sharing. It is helpful to hear a union member's perspective on this.
15
@Jonny Boy
31% of your compensation tied up in healthcare. This is staggering.
NY Times should do a deep dive to uncover what people are really paying now. I don't think they really have a clue.
7
@Jonny Boy 31% is outrageous. It is truly a healthcare insurance ripoff!
2
At this point Sanders & Warren need to be given the chance to spar against the more talented communicators among the moderates: Mayor Pete, Williamson, Harris, Booker, Beto and Biden.
Others should get out of the way...especially the western governors who generally lack sufficient charisma and who are more purple than blue.
9
"Mr. Sanders did just that, and the people roared." Never underestimate the appeal of a simple-minded bumper sticker slogan like "Medicare for All". The people roared. More like "the people brayed." Sanders would swiftly find out, if elected, that the devil is in the details.
God, I hope that, after November 2020, we have a Democratic president, and that I never have to hear the name "Bernie Sanders" again.
2
Bernie is like the coach before his team has a big game; gushing with enthusiasm as he pumps up his players.
But what happens after his team loses? What happens to Americans looking for improvements in their health care lot when Medicare-for-all crashes and burns?
Don't listen to the fools who say we need a moderate to beat Trump, that is GOP propaganda.
Moderates inspire no one to show up at the polls
58
@Steve
"Moderates inspire no one to show up at the polls"
And to this I say STOP trying to inflict your opinion on others and let American voters think and speak for themselves because if anything -- because it's comments like this that sound like "G.O.P. propaganda".
3
@Steve Hillary Clinton, anyone?
7
@Steve - so Biden is extremely popular WHY?
1
Bernie dominates the stage by yelling. I find that incredibly off-putting, and I'm not alone in that. I also happen to disagree with some of his positions, but it is his persona that really grates.
If he is the Democratic nominee I will, of course, vote for him because the most important thing in this election is beating Trump. I would find it harder to work for Bernie than I would for some other candidates as I couldn't say with integrity that he would be a great president. By 2020 we will have suffered for 4 years with a perpetually angry president. We don't need another such, even if what Bernie is angry about is more justified than Trump's petulant egocentrism.
4
Bernie: frequently wrong; never in doubt. A natural divider for whom bridge builders are obstacles.
4
@Michael
Bridge builders? The R's burnt those bridges to the ground. With glee. Please...
6
The debate made me realize how much I had not previously paid attention to Mr. Sanders. I will say this, for 77 years old, he is sharp. I may not be fully aligned with his goals, but his ability to have an immediate well articulated response on any topic is why I think Millennials & GEN Z go for him; he is speaking from a lifetime of conviction to his ideas - i think that message comes across load and clear... and he has this early GEN Xer thinking...
50
He's my man. I'm so sick of the Democratic tune "we can't win if we fight for our values!".
38
We have one last chance to elect the best president to lead this country, and the world into a future.
A future.
A truly great future.
Let’s take it.
Bernie2020
25
@Lilly
We are lucky to have him and that he is running.
3
The sad fact for democrat voters is that they will believe that the promises of freebies is about them, the voters. But the reality is, the promises are for one reason and one reason only: to get their vote, so that Bernie, Warren or whoever it is gets the power. Who cares what gets passed - just give me the power, the connections, so that I can make $250 million like the Clintons. The 2016 DNC email leak made it clear that leadership does not care about "the people."
1
I'm not a Bernie groupie, but Bernie sure did "win" last night, with his passionate wrote the damn bill comment.
23
@Anne Russell But that's an absolutely terrible metric for selecting a candidate, and I'm sorry (though not surprised) to see the reporting urging us all to use it.
2
@AnnaT I support a candidate who is articulate, of sound mind, decent, intelligent, experienced, knowledgeable about domestic and world affairs.
Yes, he wrote the damn bill.
And, no, Americans refuse to have anything shoved down their throats by faceless bureaucrats in Washington.
Bernie, who still can't bring himself to call himself a Democrat ( depending on the day of the week he is variously an Independent or a Socialist), and his sidekick, Warren, are intent on dragging the Democratic party as far left as they can.
Americans by and large will not vote for extremists like these two. Warren is currently incapable of even winning in the Dem nomination polls in her own state, Massachusetts. She is just too far left for them.
The only two people capable of winning this thing for us are Biden, whom I am not crazy about, and Pete Buttigieg, who was the only rational, calm person on the stage last night.
9
Nothing you vote on is shoved down your throat. If you approve of every policy and law you live under, you live a charmed life indeed.
How much choice does anyone have over their private health insurance? It was selected by their employer except for a very narrow set of options. What that policy covers when the bills arrive is entirely up to the insurer.
17
@simon sez 70 percent of Americans support some kind of Medicare for All plan. It's rather odd to label almost 3/4 of America "extremist" or "radical."
If Bernie - feel the Bern - is the eventual Democrat nominee - it's a cake walk for POTUS.
Sure, he will drown POTUS in minutiae - but POTUS will have better one liners than "I wrote the damn bill".
I just turned 70 - and I think I, as a Republican, have moderated my anger - over the years - towards Democrats.
For life of me, Bernie seems to be still so angry as if he still resents being denied the nomination the last time.
One reason, many rejected Sen McCain was he came across as an angry man against anybody who did not serve in the military or anyone who questioned his constant self advertisement of his own military service.
Most Americans - and I am expecting no more than 20 million out of 200 plus million voters watched this debate - are apolitical and generally satisfied.
Bernie - if he continues this drama - will come across a a grumpy grandpa who lectures all the time but never gives a Christmas gift. But tells you - that a large bequest is waiting.
If Bernie - feel the Bern - is the eventual Democrat nominee - it's a cake walk for POTUS.
Sure, he will drown POTUS in minutiae - but POTUS will have better one liners than "I wrote the damn bill".
I just turned 70 - and I think I, as a Republican, have moderated my anger - over the years - towards Democrats.
For life of me, Bernie seems to be still so angry as if he still resents being denied the nomination the last time.
One reason, many rejected Sen McCain was he came across as an angry man against anybody who did not serve in the military or anyone who questioned his constant self advertisement of his own military service.
Most Americans - and I am expecting no more than 20 million out of 200 plus million voters watched this debate - are apolitical and generally satisfied.
Bernie - if he continues this drama - will come across a a grumpy grandpa who lectures all the time but never gives a Christmas gift. But tells you - that a large bequest is waiting.
2
@Neil
Bernie is not angry, he's passionate. Big difference.
@Neil
Angry old grandpa? You are describing Trump to a T.
Bernie may have written the "damn bill" and know what he wrote in it, but only Congress can decide what's in the bill that eventually passes.
Ryan should have countered: "Bernie, you may propose a bill, but Congress and Mitch McConnell will decide what gets into law."
8
I don't have much use for Bernie, believe he is out of his depth at the Presidential level and that his nomination would ensure Trump's reelection but his "I wrote the damn bill" was one of the great debate sound bites. My partner and I quite agreed on that even as we were pulling for others on the stage.
But, there are still too damn many candidates on stage. The debate often degenerated into a bear pit with the loudest and most bullying voice, again Bernie, trampling the CNN moderators.
We won't get anywhere defining issues and building momentum until at least half this field has dropped out. Tonight will be no better.
1
@John Collinge the reason there are so many Democratic pretenders on stage is a ploy by the DNC, or whoever runs these dog and pony circus shows, to again cloud the issues and put another Republican-lite in the ring with Trumpkin. I don’t know the particulars about how all of those pretenders are allowed to spar with the real Democrats, but it smells very bad to me.
1
Would Amazon be paying a $15 an hour wage without Bernie? Would states be raising their minimum wages without Bernie's influence? I don't think so. By beating the same drum, he is moving the needle for people that the Republicans want to forget about and would be happy shutting out of their American dreams. Bernie is authentic. He is vigorous and earnest. I can't think of anyone else I would want in the White House or to remove Trump from the White House.
462
@Gale Martin
As much as I want to see universal access, the analogy of a $15 minimum wage at Amazon to a health care plan to cover "all needs" (whatever that is) of 300+ million people is fraught.
Medical care covers just under 20% of the GDP, depending on how the numbers are parsed.
7
@JSK
As opposed to all other western democracies that have universal health care access which averages 11% of GDP, depending on how the numbers are parsed.
35
@JSK:
how very nice it would be if
all the tax evaders, tax avoiders and
longtime money launderers chipped in.
44
No one in the U.S. Senate understands health insurance better then Senator Bernie Sanders. When healthcare reform was being debated (ACA) is when he first got my attention. I heard him speaking on the Senate floor and I said to myself; "Wow, he really understand health insurance". I UNDERSTAND HEALTH INSURANCE TOO. When I listen to most lawmakers speak about it they so clearly do not know what they are talking about. Universal healthcare, Medicare-for-ALL is the only way to go. There isn't enough room here to explain all the reasons why it's the way to go. Anyone who doesn't;t understand health insurance is best to not talk about it at all as they expose themselves as unable to address this important issue.
158
@Susan bravo, very articulate and cogent comment! The other speakers besides Bernie and Elizabeth are all spewing corporate insurance healthcare propaganda, $billions spent by the insurance companies to buy mouthpieces in Congress!
17
@Susan How are you going to sell it to voters when you can’t explain it on a message board? That’s the real problem, though I must say Bernie and Warren went a long way toward effectively selling it yesterday.
1
@Susan ACA has over 20,000 pages of regulations. This would have more so it is definitely correct that you are not going to explain it in 1500 characters.
The theory sounds great (and it is theory for the US) but I want to see details that have verified supporting information as to how it will be paid for, how it will be implemented, and what will happen to those who work for private insurers today. Medicare filled a void, it did not replace an existing structure. ACA filled a void, it did not replace an existing structure.
The problem with Sen. Sanders’ “I wrote the bill” retort is that a bill as introduced is not the bill as enacted or implemented. The question was whether union workers would have as good health insurance under “Medicare for All” as they currently have. The concern raised was that if all health providers were reimbursed at Medicare rates that some hospitals would close. Sanders can propose legislation, but he can’t pass it and/or is unwilling to make the compromises necessary to gain passage as he waits for his “revolution”. And, if (god forbid) it ever did pass, he can’t control the response by health providers leaving the marketplace.
7
@CS -- In the UK, people willing to become nurses are PAID while in training. Same with doctors! Because they are so needed, they are not also asked to run up student-loan debt, which in many cases forces them to go into high-income "specialty" fields of medicine because they can't afford to help people, for example, as a general practitioner in a rural or small town setting. All across the USA, we are experiencing what is ranked as the WORST health care of any top 10 nation. The only people satisfied with healthcare in the USA are the super-rich, who buy into cadillac care. This leaves 83 MILLION people without healthcare or with insurance that has high annual deductibles and copays that often prevent them from going to a doctor or hospital until they are deathly ill because they fear going bankrupt. This ONLY HAPPENS IN AMERICA! More than 500,000 families go bankrupt every year due to unpaid medical bills, and the majority had insurance when they first became sick or injured -- or started fighting with insurance companies to save the life of a child etc. It's a LOUSY way to offer "healthcare" with in this country is really "managed illness for profit!" Senator Bernie Sanders had the courage, as he has in many instances, to speak up for the people being shortchanged. He wrote the Medicare For ALL bill, and has toured the country to explain what it will mean for ordinary people, union workers, middle class and working class. It will save money and improve healthcare.
12
Note well the source of the specter of closing hospitals consequent to paying Medicare rates: hospital administrators.
If Delaney wants to swallow that line, ok, that shows whose pocket he’s in. It doesn’t make it true.
6
@mjpezzi
I thought the point was to eliminate profit taking by insurers. If we turn around and start paying people to train to become medical professionals, that sounds like a new extraordinary cost. I can’t believe people believe any of Bernie’s “plan” is remotely feasible.
At its most basic level, physicians and potentially hospitals en masse would switch to not accepting Medicare with their low reimbursement rates. Providers who do accept Medicare payments would be so swamped with patients it would make people yearn for the care of today.
Flew out of Burlington three weeks ago with my kids headed to CA via Chicago. Bernie checked in behind us. Had a good word for everyone who approached him. Flew coach. Read my lips, I know what the definition of “is” is, and I know an unindicted felon when I see one...Americans won’t elect an honest President, because it is not reflective of what this country is...
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@Powderchordsv -- great comment.
One quibble -- "Americans won’t elect an honest President, because it is not reflective of what this country is..."
Your cynicism seems well-warranted in light of the mountains of Mendacity Republicans (and pro-Corporate Dems) have given us for ... generations.
Perhaps Americans are (finally!) ready to lose some of that cynicism.
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Bernie Sanders has my vote! This man has, and has ALWAYS had, guts! Sanders can fight the good fight and stand up for the common man. And, he is right about universal health care, a topic much debated last night. Sanders has the courage to do what is right and not worry how his ratings are affected. Absolutely I would vote for him over Trump. Heck, is that match up even a contest?
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@Susan Levaque
Not only yours, the latest Gallup poll has him seen more favorably than all his rivals:
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/07/20/man-can-beat-trump-sanders-viewed-most-favorably-2020-democratic-candidates
Also, the oldest chap in the race is the last one you can accuse of being sleepy or low-energy.
I'd say after the viral takes from last night's debate Bernie is back on track to become the 46th President of the United States of America, the first one to give it affordable universal healthcare.
Insane tax freedoms, tax havens and loopholes and devious constructs and ultrawealthy welfare and outdated, depraved and decrepit industrial polluters, here we come, expressing the will and the voice of the people of America!
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Bernie outed Jake Tapper's "Republican talking points" and predicted CNN would be running expensive big pharma ads during the debate. Bingo.
He and Elizabeth Warren have managed to dismantle the tired Democratic mantra of running on Republican-lite issues. They make candidates and pundits think for a change. If they make them uncomfortable, all the better.
I still lean to Joe Biden. I do hope he can absorb some of Bernie's fire, energy and intellect. Beating Trump means no more Mr. Nice Guy.
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We probably need not worry that Sanders or Warren are too extreme given the lunatic the republicans put in office. If they are extreme it's because they're so much smarter than our current president and 63 million Americans. They might need to throw some total nonsense into their speeches so that ignorant, reality tv oriented America can relate. It might not be the content of what they say but the way they say it. Keep screeming Bernie!!!!
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I’ll tell you something that could be changed: the interviewers.
Instead of having these pro journalists, some of who are just viewed as tired and part of the deceptive “system,” why not have other members of the public?
Say, have some retired congressmen/women, or some ambassadors, or professors, or college presidents, or somebody else.
Make it a bit more interesting. Some of these journalist, they simply prompt the same old soundbites out of the candidates. Perhaps, if you get different sorts of people asking, you might get some more interesting ideas and responses.
Just wondering.
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@Freak:
good idea.
how about people like you and me!
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@Freak
That, and get rid of the audience. The candidates pander too much to the crowd and don't focus on the issues as well.
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@Freak
I thought the interviewers were terrible. They played gotcha all night long. I like your idea.
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Certainly Senator Sanders defended his position on Medicare for all and accused contrarian voices of using Republican talking points.
Unfortunately however he was in error on many of his statistics,the overall argument that a tax increase on the middle classes is justified
as all deductibles and copays would disappear when insurance paid healthcare bills,assumes that everybody uses the healthcare system
every year,They don’t the young healthy middle class would be paying higher taxes for a product at their age they rarely use and as our population
is heading towards static growth the taxes would need to go higher and higher.Mrs Thatchers quote that socialism is wonderful until you
run out of other peoples money is as true today as when she made the comment,role on 2020.
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Question: how much money do you think the “young healthy middle-class” pays now in health care premiums? I’d rather pay higher taxes if they ended up being less money overall than my premiums, deductibles, etc.
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@Able
Middle class millennial here--30% of my income goes to taxes and I would pay more if I never had to battle insurance companies, get surprise bills from Drs & hospitals and be restricted by having my insurance tied to my job. I know what I will pay in taxes each year, but my medical bills are frighteningly unknown, even with my mediocre insurance.
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1. You’re describing Medicare as it is: everyone paying into a system that covers the elderly.
2. Perhaps you don’t realize that insurance is a system whereby the unaffected pay the expenses of the affected. Public or private, healthy people pay for the sick.
What exactly is it that the current system offers that Medicare for All doesn’t? We have the world’s most expensive, most inefficient system. How is perpetuating is going to save anyone anything?
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Who could watch the moderators, particularly Tapper, as they tried to promote a food, and not despair for our country. These people are not journalists, they are game show hosts. And they would rather have another four year of Donald Trump than risk having slightly more tax taken from their already inflated and undeserved paychecks.
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@mkc I yearn for the CNN of Ted Turner. It is nothing but a game show with idiots like Santorum on it now, everything is “BREAKING NEWS!”
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@mkc I thought they did a good job. It was an impressively substantive debate. Certainly much better than NBC’s sad effort
Paulie,
I agree. If everything is "Breaking News" nothing is breaking news.(That sounded a little like something Yogi Berra would say didn't it?) :-)
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The worst outcome for Democrats would be if Sanders or Warren becomes the nominee. Yes, they have a voice but they can’t garner a majority or win in the electoral college at the national level. Like it or not, the US is not a progressive country politically speaking and both candidates would be utterly decimated in the general election.
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@Nicholas Sensible, experienced Biden must be the Democratic nominee, with a female running mate, preferably Warren if she would stop using the word fight.
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Somehow I remember everyone saying the same thing about Clinton in 2016. How did that work out?
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@Nicholas Yeah and United States isn't an isolationist country and DT will never get elected...
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The madness of crowds is a groupthink of the moment. Sure, "Medicare for all," for example, sounds like a good idea. And little wonder Sanders' response to Hickenlooper produced a roar. It's all abstract and therefore can be laughed at with approval. When the actual cost is determined and how it affects each person there individually, maybe not so much.
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It’s not groupthink and it’s not delusional. Policy experts agree, to a one, that a universal system would be cheaper and save lives. The facts are all on one side.
The debate is not over efficacy. The debate is over expediency: how to convince the public to let go of their “beloved” private health insurance.
1
So if healthcare so important, why isn’t anyone talking about our infrastructure not being updated. Flint Michigan, Hoosic falls throughout the country, aged water pipes bring let another chemicals two family homes; sewer systems roads bridges railroad tracks and Trains need to be updated. In case you haven’t noticed our standard of living is slipping. If government wants to show it can provide a workable healthcare system, you can create a program that would cover the young people that could be employed, and their wages taxed, to improve the infrastructure.
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Most of the infrastructure you are referring to is municipal. Federal funds are distributed to the states to help with some of it, but those are largely stare issues. Like the self-proclaimed “sewer mayor” of Atlanta, local governments like Flint’s are responsible for creating and fixing their messes. Many are privately owned, including the railroads and trains. Those businesses make their own determinations about when it is profitable and necessary to make major updates, and factor it into their costs which they pass onto customers.
Of course, the federal government should also support with disaster relief, including in situations like What occurred in Flint. 3.3 Americans in Puerto Rico suffered devastation and received minuscule aid.
All citizens are affected by issues such as health care, taxes, and climate change. And most are affected negatively by the currently massive income inequality and the financial instability and reduction of voice in government that it causes.
As for producing jobs for areas where industry has died but people are still living: I think that is a very good open question. Any president should theoretically strive to advance all Americans. A Green New Deal would be an example of such a solution, just as The New Deal brought about tremendous employment across the country when it was needed. However, we are at the lowest unemployment rate in years, so I fail to see why this should be the focus of a campaign.
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@Harriet Katz Sounds like those "shovel-ready" jobs the last President promixed... but did not deliver.
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@Harriet Katz Bernie does have a plan for infrastructure. Look at his website. I imagine Elizabeth Warren does too. And there are designs in the Green New Deal for infrastructure too - green infrastructure.
2
Sanders needs to lower it a notch. Right now Americans need calm, cool and collected. That's not trash talk, it's constructive criticism.
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More and more, Bernie reminds me of someone from my childhood - a decent, kind, moral and ethical man who is set in his ways and not prone to compromise. He comes off as angry and he is irritated that people don't always agree with him because in his mind, this is all very simple.
It's not simple and we won't get rid of Trump with radical plans for free everything. I wish neither of them any ill, but I hope Mr. Sanders and Ms. Warren stay in the Senate.
7
Bernie says we need to attract the 'young people" oblivious to the fact that the debate stages are full of young people. Everyone over seventy (my age) needs to accept the mantle of elder statesperson and cheer a younger candidate on.
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@MDS Nearly everyone that I know who's my age (20s-30s) supports Bernie. We're not interested in candidates because they're young. We're interested in candidates because of their policies and vision. I can't think of one younger candidate in this field who I would be happy voting for. (Warren's my second choice, but she's a very distant second). Things are very bad in this country right now and we can't afford to wait for incremental change. We need someone who's willing and able to create systemic change. Bernie is the only candidate who will do that.
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So, you would also expect Trump to give up on reelection since he’s over 70?
Ageism isn’t a compelling argument to me. What I value is vision, intellect, leadership, and an unwavering moral compass.
Bernie is likely the only democratic candidate who can out-populist the fake-populist current president. And Bernie hasn’t really varied in his policy positions in all his years of experience in governance. A younger candidate hasn’t had the the opportunity to flip-flop and disenchant the voting public, so they cannot possess the same credibility toward commitment to their positions. In short: Age is a grossly over-reductive measure of a candidate.
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Bernie hasn’t varied in his political positions, but neither has he been able to bring them to fruition.
4
Mr. Flegenheimer sounds a bit like a cheering movie critic. Maybe Senator Sanders is a bit closer to an Actor's Equity card, but that does not make his ideas more convincing or sound. His Medicare for All plan--whatever that might mean beyond sound bites or a bill we have not seen--is certain to have major problems finding its way into law.
As others on the stage pointed out, we've been fighting over health care for decades. To even start the Senator's process we have to not simply oust Trump, we would have to own the Senate. Still, that does not make it wise policy.
As nice as it sounds, even his phrasing "...covers all health care needs" is hardly clear in its detail. Limiting those needs to what could be paid for would no doubt be problematic, even if we got that far. I would bet we do not.
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@JSK The US is the only industrialized country that doesn't guarantee heathcare. It's not radical or pie-in-the-sky. It's catching up with the rest of the world.
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@Tiffany
I've heard these argument for the better part of a decade--some parts much longer. I do believe in universal access. I do not think an ill-defined Medicare for All is the way to go in this country. Not that it matters for me--I am already on Medicare and will not likely be around by the time a pervasive plan is implemented.
All those other industrialized countries, mostly in Europe, have plans that came out of other longstanding histories, out of other beliefs in a wide variety of social contracts.
Even getting Medicare started was a battle in this country. I never talked about "pie in the sky" in terms of universal access. It is a matter of how we get there with what we have now.
8
Someone on the stage should have pointed out that Bernie isn’t a Democrat. Why is he angry all the time?
9
Why does it matter that he isn’t a Democrat? Truly. Explain.
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There’s a lot to be angry about!
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@Jackson
The fastest growing political affiliation in America are Independents. People like me who are fed up with both major parties. Perhaps not being a member of the club should be seen as an advantage.
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Just because he wrote the bill does not mean the math is right. Plenty of bills have been written where they grossly underestimated the cost to implement. Funny how they have never overestimated.
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@DC Actually the bail out of banks etc. following the crash made a profit as seized banks GM etc. were fixed and resold earning more than invested.
What Warren and Sanders propose works in many other countries I lived in one for 15 years. What doesn't work is not having corporations pay NO taxes and rich people like Trump and Kushner avoid taxes. As someone said " with taxes I buy civilization"
Think a bit longer term than next week. there are great savings in costs to be had once everyone is insured and has health care. If everyone had free education also imagine your doctors not having 6 figure debts for medical school loans to pay off.
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I like Bernie’s stance, but he needs to stay in the senate.
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