Never contradict, never say no, tell him you'll get right on it, do nothing, hope he'll forget.
Of course because this isn't a nursing home things will still have turned out terribly, but . . .
maybe not horribly?
1
America is very attractive to many foreigners prepared for whatever reason to leave their own countries. Those reasons of hunger, poverty and repression are increasing. For example, the people coming from Central America are being augmented by people from S America, Asia and Africa.
The US is an empty country with a lot of opportunity.However, accepting immigrants poses problems. Most of the immigrants are black/brown and this exacerbates the fear among whites that they will soon be a minority majority group and the fear among all low income groups that the new arrivals, competing for jobs, will further drive down their wages.
In addition the GOP, primarily if not quite exclusively, the party of Whites sees this as an existential threat. California, once a bastion of the GOP. is now an electoral desert as minorities have become a majority of the population. So will go Texas, Florida and Georgia. Miller and others see this and want to both stem the flow of immigrants and eject other minority populations, both undocumented and documented.
DJT is the means of accomplishing this and they will push on many fronts. There will be mistakes, set backs and tactical retreats but this will remain policy until the GOP breaks up. The GOP came into existence as a result of immigration and racial issues. It will cease to exist because of immigration and race.
Alternatively, echoing Lincoln, America will cease to exist as the Country cannot contain White Nationalists and Multi Ethnicity.
@wjth
The USA an "empty country"?
Not as "empty" as most of South America and Africa.
9
Border between the U.S. and Canada is OK. But why is the border between the U.S. and Mexico not OK?
These immigrants come to the U.S. primarily to escape problems in their native countries (Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama) which includes a stagnant economy, high levels of crime, political corruption and widespread drug use. There is a legal way to request a green card to enter the U.S., however unlawful mobs entry is not allowed. Shame and disgrace of all these central American countries and their governments who fail to feed their people, to give them medical care, good housing, and jobs. These central American countries and their governments are the ones at fault.
Sorry that your country does not love you anymore. To find true love you need to find and walk on God’s Holy road which will one day open the gate to His Kingdom in Heaven. The road you are currently walking is man made and will only bring you tears and despair, darkness and regrets.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I did not see the words “illegal aliens” in this biased article. Make no mistake, that is what President Trump is attempting to do is remove people who illegally entered and stayed in this country. Why is this so difficult for the Left to understand?
13
I am what you call the “left” and I call them illegal border crossers, because that’s what they are doing. It’s illegal. I don’t call it immigration because they do not have the right or the proper paperwork to be immigrants. We have laws and quotas for refugees and immigrants and we need to follow them....otherwise we have only chaos and people living in the shadows. That doesn’t benefit us and it doesn’t benefit them. I would like to help people in need, but we do not have the resources to allow for open borders. If the Democratic candidates do not come up with a viable plan, they have lost many of us.
11
Anyone who has followed the crisis at the border would have to conclude that the minors pouring across the border now are the DREAMers of tomorrow so that support for legalization of the current DREAMers is a test run for the next DREAMer amnesty, which will not be far behind. The current group was brought to the US by others just the same as the first group, right?
No Dem candidate has set forth any credible plan to secure the border and deal with visa overstayers in the immediate future, which suggests a rerun of the 1986 amnesty: amnesty now with enforcement maybe later, maybe never, followed by more illegal entry, and more amnesties. In short, rolling amnesties on into the future is the plan.
Most voters can figure this out, especially if they start to see the demands that releasing tens if not hundreds of thousands of people into our towns and cities will make upon our social services, including our schools, for years into the future.
Sen Kaine just emailed me his plans for introducing Stop Cruelty to Migrant Children Act. He obviously thinks that an Act can solve the crisis at the border instead of actually repealing the incentives that made crashing the border so attractive.
There have been at least 6 acts passed to set up an entry-exit system to detect visa overstayers. Do we have such a system? No, we don't.
So much angst is simply virtue signaling. It is easy as long as the influx isn't affecting you, your job, your children's school, and your neighborhood.
7
According to MIT-Yale study we have over 20 Million Illegal Aliens in the USA. Now the left wants to flood the USA with even more. Rapid destruction of our nation
13
Just stop it! So Kristen Nielsen becomes a source so we learn what? Steven Miller is a very bad guy---yea we knew that. What this article is really about is trying --yet again--to begin the process of rehabilitation for Nielsen and her (rightly) destroyed reputation. She put children in cages and then lied about it --repeatedly. And nothing and no body can change that. She should be shunned forever. The Times should have more respect for itself and its readers to publish this.
JoAnne McCarthy
2
What is most problematic in this whole now-epic controversy is how the media plays games with words, constantly mis-using and mis-applying the words immigration and immigrant. They do not apply to people who do not go through the legal immigration processes. To then call illegal alien residents "undocumented" is a further mis-truth. The media must take more responsibility for its actions, its language games, and how they are distorting the political climate. Protecting our boundaries, our law and order, is not a conservative position. If anything, it is liberal. A true liberal recognizes the limits of principles. A fake liberal takes a word like "inclusiveness" and fails to set any limits to it. We cannot, will not, and don't want to admit anybody in the world who wants to come here, no matter what their reasons are. The so-called American Dream is not about coming here to make money, but to embrace our constitutional values and be a good citizen. People who come here to make money and then go back home are just exploiting us, using us, and severely damaging our economy. We have had enough. Only when we have full employment for all of OUR people, can we start admitting immigrants again.
15
Typical NYT and MSM dissembling --
It was never zero tolerance on "immigration".
It was zero tolerance on illegal immigration.
As for the current trendy meme about "asylum" --
There is no right to get "asylum".
There is merely a right to claim it.
But the claimant must prove the right to receive it.
Merely making the claim is not enough.
Crossing the border other than at official ports of entry
is not "legal",
and merely making a claim for "asylum"
is not a magic wand that makes it legal --
-- not unless and until the claim is proven.
And -- unless and until it is proven --
the claimant can -- and ought to be -- held in detention -- 24/7 --
and when the claim is denied
-- or not pursued --
as is usually the case,
the claimant can be -- and ought to be -- deported -- promptly.
There is no right to "asylum" from "poverty",
nor from "domestic violence",
nor from "gang violence",
nor from "climate change".
A claim for asylum must be based on grounds such as religious or racial persecution.
17
The Democrats refuse to speak about enforcing laws at our border. Why? Because they don’t want to lose the Hispanic vote. The Republicans continually speak about zero tolerance on our border. Why? Because they don’t want to lose the conservative vote. It’s all about the presidential election and absolutely nothing about the unfortunate reality at our border. This is what it’s become. I am one Democrat party member who thinks we cannot have open borders. That is impossible as even more people will pour into this country. We simply can’t afford to help everyone in the world. The immigration quotas and laws must be followed.
19
as despicable as trump’s racism and xenophobia are, so many otherwise open hearted people are reasonably disturbed by the caravan pictures and 100,000 at the border monthly. No civilized nation has open borders: we must find a rational policy to help the poor in the northern triangle-aid with their nation building, etc. But clearly the answer is not to bring central america into the US. Fear of crime and poverty are not reasons for asylum. This paper has had many articles demonstrating that the prime move is economic migration. What about poverty and crime among our citizens?
13
Mr. Zengerle you are completely missing the most important dynamic, our laws, facilities, and infrastructure were designed and built for single men.
That demographic has rapidly changed. The current DHS Director now says 40% of Border Patrol are engaged in what can best be described as daycare. They were not trained for that, and the facilities are woefully inadequate.
It didn't help that House Democrats added a rider to the last CR, which grants amnesty to any adult with a minor.
Up here in NE we have a pretty darn good football team. Their coach spends countless hours formulating a game plan, perhaps the best in the business. And very often at halftime, it is completely changed to adjust to the dynamics on the field.
Congress rarely wins the football game, they lose, and immediately look for a scapegoat.
9
We have immigration laws. It is the function of the executive branch to ensure that the laws as passed by the legislature are enforced. Therefore, zero tolerance to lawbreaking should and must remain the policy of law enforcement. I, at least, do not want the cop on the beat, the desk Sargent, the precinct Captain, the Chief of Police, or the President of the United States to have the right to decide which laws will be enforced.
This article, like many others, accuses Mr. Trump of violating Federal law in his immigration policies. If he did so, he should be stopped. What is downplayed, if mentioned at all, is that many of the people he is acting against are also breaking Federal law by illegally crossing into the U.S. at other than authorized crossing points or by overstaying their visa or work permits. Why do the writers not call for the multitude of lawbreakers to be punished instead of the one?
13
Three thoughts:
1. We can't take in the world. Period. Therefore, we need to set limits. This is both sensible and realistic. It means deportations, but it does not mean ill-treatment until people's cases are heard.
2. We need a way to know our borders are continuously monitored, which is both appropriate for a country and can be done without walls.
3. We need a stronger, not gutted, DHS to deal with overseas terrorism, not focused solely on southern border immigration. That worries me a great deal.
13
This is such a damning report on the Trump administration, on Trump's concern solely for appearances, to redirect resources to make Trump look like the all-powerful leader, while the country falls apart. Diplomacy is disdained, foreign policy is reduced to chest thumping, and domestic policy is left to greedy corporate interests and their corrupt sycophants. We all know this is true, yet somehow this article brings it home in such a powerful way.
5
Couldn't we instead spend our money and influence on making Central American governments and economies more functional? Most people don't want to leave their homes, communities, languages and cultures; they are forced to, by crime or poverty or both. Maybe the private prison industry wouldn't make as much money, but perhaps we could encourage businesses that rely on very low cost labor to locate in these countries, while forcing corrupt governments to clean up and actually protect their people. Isn't that something we could try, rather than simply persecuting people who are already desperate?
6
@maggie We have been doing that for decades, the Governments are corrupt and run by the criminal cartels. We would be better off setting up shop on the Southern Mexican border and handing out money orders
8
Stephen Miller, this 33-year expert of nothing except far-right wing, xenophobic hatred, has single-handedly done the most to destroy this country.
Why hasn't there been more intense scrutiny and exposure of him by the media and Democrat politicians?!
If the pundits say that Trump is not ideological, doesn't read, and couldn't write a speech by himself...then the focus of what is wrong today should be given to who is writing the hateful and inflammatory rhetoric that Trump is just reading off of teleprompters.
It is this 33-year old nothing who is putting the words in Trump's mouth. If you have listened to him (and cringed) when they let him come out from behind the curtain and do an interview (then pulled back because what he says is so incendiary and embarrassing)...it's obvious it is his hateful words and dark thoughts that Trump is parroting.
He's not an expert on immigration law and process. He is a far-right bigot that has Trump's ear, because he was there from the beginning, warming up rally crowds with white supremacist/Breitbart/xenophobic rhetoric.
If Trump had lost the election, he would be one of those people on his bed posting far-right blogs and trying to be noticed.
If the Democrats were able to expose this fraud and create enough negative publicity, it's a spoke in the wheel of hateful rhetoric that I bet Trump would have no trouble jettisoning and the world would be better for it!
11
unbelievable, trump is willing for a CBP personnel to go to jail claiming he will grant a pardon - throw someone under the bus so trump can break the law. sounds so completely familiar.
6
Illegal employees and employee wannabes know perfectly well that they are illegal and that they cannot work here legally. They have no excuse for liability for working illegally.
Employers have no way to know who is legal and who is illegal --
not unless you want to let them use their own eyeballs --
and if you allow them to do that,
then do not hypocritically scream "racism"
when using their own eyeballs results in "disproportionately" large refusals to hire people who "look" Latino.
So -- all those who are really serious about enforcing immigration laws on employee ought to support a federal, mandatory, uniform, nationwide biometric ID data base recorded digitally and accessible electronically, on-line, by employers -- along with police and other government offices -- especially government benefits offices.
But, of course, Dems have always resisted biometric IDs.
E-verify is a good step in this direction and is available now. But it is not federally mandatory, and further still, some states -- notably "sanctuary" states like California -- actually prohibit employers from using it.
Furthermore, e-Verify only matches names to SSNs.
It does not match names or SSNs to the warm body who presents himself/herself to the employer.
Further still,
whenever Dems agree to even semi-serious immigration control efforts, they always tightly tie it to giveaways to illegal immigrants, such as amnesty.
10
Trump's stance on immigration is consistent with that of Greece, Italy, Malta, Australia, etc.... where immigrants attempting to make land fall are turned away at sea. The EU is considering changing its policy on the free movement between EU Countries, of recent immigrants. What the columnist fails to acknowledge is that mass immigration is a global problem not unique to the US. The social and economic cost of admitting all who seek to enter the US would be staggering, yet the liberal left chooses to ignore the reality of it. Bill de Blasio, the mayor of New York, shook his fist in rage at Trump over immigration, but when confronted by Trump's offer to send them to NYC, his liberal ire took a 180 degree turn and he refused to accept them. The numbers are staggering, yet liberals would prefer to put their personal spin on the issue and not face the reality of the social and economic commitment that it entails. It would take several generations before these individuals would be capable of entering main stream America if at all, and in the intrum, society would bear the cost to sustain them. We already face sever issue with homelessness, opiate addiction, etc... in America now. One need only take a walk though Manhattan to see how truly bad things are. We need to focus on our current problems before we take on others.
17
Trump works for the people who exploit illegal immigrants for profit.
Is it any wonder that he can't seem to "fix" the problem?
6
@mungomunro
Doubt if Trump works for any other rich people.
For better or worse, he's his own man.
As for people who make money off of the massive illegal immigrant phenomenon in the USA,
you must mean lawyers in a rampantly overpopulated profession (unmatched on a per capita basis anywhere else in the world) who scrounge up "work" by spinning out reams of lawsuits to endlessly string out deportation actions by abusing America's extravagantly expensive, time-consuming and cumbersome legal "process" (unmatched anywhere else in the world -- not even in other so-called "common law" jurisdictions like England, Canada and Australia).
And also teachers with nice pensions
who owe the supposed "need" for their work
to the supposed rights of millions of offspring of illegal immigrants to a K-12 education at the expense of the American taxpayers.
7
I’m a middle school teacher in Virginia and I’m not getting more money, just larger classrooms with students who barely speak English but are transitioned to mainstream classes because of the lack of ESOL teachers. It is horrible and we have to lower everything we teach so that we don’t have too many failures and then we (the teachers) get in trouble.
16
@sam finn Don't kid yourself, Trump is 100% owned and operated by the global corporations.
4
Trump's manipulation of immigration has to qualify as one of the most effective political misdirection campaigns in history. It has been remarkable! He talks incessantly about "open borders" and the need to build a wall at the Mexican border. The actual point is to incite racial/ethnic hostility. Clearly, he has no intention to discourage illegal employment which is the attraction that brings almost all economic migrants into the US. Legal immigration and the granting of work visas is highly restrictive and helps maintain the illusion that we are serious about enforcing control of our borders. It is all part of the propaganda campaign designed to deflect attention away from the 11 million low wage, unskilled, dark-skinned migrants that facilitate the tax avoidance/wage suppression strategy that enriches the entrepreneurial class, all the while blocking any chance of achieving citizenship. Some of Trump's supporters knowingly participate in the campaign but most of the Yahoo's you see at his rallies are actually slugging down the Kool-Aid. If those people were actually able to comprehend what he was doing, their heads, (empty or not) would explode. He calls Mexicans rapists & criminals but actually deports far fewer than Obama did. He ignores the laws that would allow the Federal government to shutdown the employment that motivates all economic migration, while convincing the base that he is being tough on.illegal immigration. It is absolutely amazing!
8
I can think of one instance when trump's wall would have been nice to have to keep out immigrants. It would have been 1885 when his grandfather immigrated from the kingdom of bavaria. Ah well, now here we are dealing with the consequences.
5
How we got there is simple --- not enforcing the law - that simple.
14
Ambition driven junior officials who make this kind of deal with the devil to fast track their advancement must be made aware there is a stiff price to pay. Names should be given to the ICC (International Criminal court- Office of the Prosecutor), and the next time any of them travel outside the US, they will be arrested and extradited to The Hague. As we all know, since Nuremberg, the "I was following orders" excuse doesn't work.
5
There is no unrestricted right to "asylum".
There is only a right to claim it based on certain grounds,
which must not only be claimed,
but must be proven.
There is no right to "asylum" from "poverty",
nor from "domestic violence",
nor from "gang violence",
nor from "climate change",
nor from a host of other economic and cultural maladies.
Billions of people all over the world suffer from such maladies.
That does not give them the right to "asylum" from them.
Furthermore, if they originally crossed the border at a place other than a recognize port of entry, that is a misdemeanor and that offense does not magically disappear by simply claiming "asylum" unless their claim is ultimately proven and granted.
Moreover, unless and until they prove their claim
based on allowed grounds,
they can be -- and ought to be -- detained -- 24/7 --
and when their claims are denied --
or not pursued --
as is usually the case --
they can be -- and ought to be -- deported -- promptly.
11
All I can say is that I hope Nielson is deprived of a good night's sleep for years to come. How many more in Trump's world have deluded themselves into believing "if not for me ..."
3
We all know immigration is a tough issue to be resolved, but it needs to have a middle point to start to be resolved. This article in part is all true, what we didn’t know was all this back and forth between people working in this administration. It feels like everyone does anything in any official department, the secretary became chief of some department and the chief of one department became a book writer to make a good cash.
This has been my opinion, I will rephrase my opinion, I am an immigrant and I do respect people’s different opinions but in this issue I have to agree with first, we do have way too many immigrants here, so it needs to have some type of control, not the way how this administration is doing, breaking laws is not the way. Second, if anyone wants to live in United States needs to adjust themselves to the way how America is and not try to build a place or neighborhood like was in them country, is so uncomfortable when you go in areas in US where no one speak English and if you do they make you feel uncomfortable, wrong, you act and live like the rest of the country. Third, learn how to speak English, I know my english is not perfect or even my grammar is way far to be perfect but is not bad and way decent, so do the same, the first language is English. And last but not least, pay your taxes. I wasn’t born here but I choose to come and live here so I do what any other citizen do, missing this components is the result of this mess.
8
How can there be too many immigrants here when we are all immigrants? I would say the only people who would agree with your statement are Native Americans.
3
@Mebschn
Tripe.
We are not all immigrants.
"Ancestors"?
Ancestors were then.
This is now.
9
Trump's obsession with the border is, as this article lays out, dangerous and short-sighted on multiple levels. People can differ on the best immigration policy (and do!) but this contretemps does not excuse turning Homeland Security into a border control agency as its primary focus. The job of Homeland Security is much more complex than dealing with immigration at the border and Trump is not interested in any of the longer term, bigger issues of confronting terrorism, Russian aggression in the arctic, dealing with disasters and other responsibilities that Homeland Security has. Another example of his single-focused, yet stunningly unfocused, lack of ability to understand and deal effectively with complex issues. Let alone an example of his breathtaking disregard for humanitarian issues, root causes of migrantion flows, and what is tantamount to child abuse in the manner in which our government is treating children and minors. Pretty disgusting and a black eye for the US as a leader on human rights and justice issues. Trump and Trumpism HAS to be repudiated overwhelmingly by the American public. This vile, incompetent man is ruining our democracy and making of American values and a mockery of the Presidency.
9
This makes no sense;
“The wall, McAleenan told Kushner, would reduce illegal immigration by 20 or 30 percent. Closing the loopholes, he said, would reduce illegal immigration by 70 to 80 percent.”
If a loophole is used, then the result is not “illegal” immigration. Did the author(s) mean that “ALL immigration would be reduced by 70 to 80 percent”?
1
@Chuck Lantz
Wrong.
The worst loopholes are in the "process" of the asylum laws --
a process that lets enterprising lawyers and other "advocates" for so-called "asylum-seekers" drag out their bogus claims for "asylum" -- and worse -- to get released to run free in the USA while the lawyers and advocates drag out the bogus asylum claims so that when the claims are eventually denied and not granted -- as most are -- at which point they are illegal immigrants and are deportable but have long since disappeared into the "shadows" -- just like all the other illegal immigrants.
4
Where’s Ivanka when it comes to this disaster her fathers created? Oh she doesn’t care about other people children since she’s too busy having her own kids raised by a gaggle of Nanny’s.
7
I have pondered immigrating to another country from time to time, not for political asylum, for personal reasons. I therefore research the laws and requirements of the host nation to find out how I can do it. I try to follow the law in this country and would certainly endeavor to do so in a foreign country. I can't quite comprehend how these people flooding our borders have acquired such an attitude of entitlement that they are fully justified in crossing the border and setting up house. Even the Syrian refugees flooding into European countries voiced a similar attitude as if it was a birthright. This sounds like a concerted campaign with instructions sent out by social media to those who want to try perpetrating the scam.
Of course if I were fleeing the USA to save my life I would have a different attitude but I still wouldn't feel I was entitled to the benefits of another country. I have to conclude that the vast vast majority of these people are scammers trying to game the system. Once you have seen how people play their scams it's easy to recognize. I don't know why Democrats and hyperventilating liberals think that these people sneaking across the border are not capable of lying to get what they want. Liberals are the ones failing this country by allowing and encouraging such skulduggery.
24
You had a classic, opinion piece until the name calling. Your intolerance is only surpassed by your ignorance. It's not hard or expensive to be kind and empathetic. My empathy for you quickly dissolved to pity when the name calling started.
Who do you think you are better than? By your own word, you believe you are better and more worthy than scared families fleeing violence and atrocities I pray you never know.
5
Most are not sneaking into this country, but applying for asylum at the border which is according to international law.
3
@Mebschn
There is no unrestricted right to "asylum".
There is only a right to claim it based on certain grounds,
which must not be merely claimed,
but also, and critically, must be proven.
There is no right to "asylum" from "poverty",
nor from "domestic violence",
nor from "gang violence",
nor from "climate change",
nor from a host of other economic and cultural maladies.
Billions of people all over the world suffer from such maladies.
That does not give them the right to "asylum" from them.
Furthermore, if they originally crossed the border at a place other than a official port of entry, that is a misdemeanor and that offense does not magically disappear by simply claiming "asylum" unless their claim is ultimately proven and granted.
Moreover, unless and until they prove their claim
based on allowed grounds,
they can be -- and ought to be -- detained -- 24/7 --
and when their claims are denied --
or not pursued --
as is usually the case --
they can be -- and ought to be -- deported -- promptly.
Even supposedly liberal Europe knows this.
So-called "asylum-seekers" from Africa and the Middle East are kept --
adults and children --
indefinitely --
in detention in refugee camps in Italy, Turkey, Cyprus and even France -- often in far worse condition that the ones on the USA border.
8
The overwhelming percentage of both legal and illegal immigrants come to this Country to improve their economic lives as compared to the countries they were living in. You can pass laws, build a wall and construct prison-like warehouses but, the desperation of people means they are still going to come here unless you make employers not hire illegal aliens.
Such a law and its enforcement would be the only thing that would seriously impede the flow. And Republicans will not support the idea of penalizing employers who hire illegals.
Another complicated part of this issue is that the native part of the American population is not reproducing itself and all signs point to that going further down. Jobs need to be filled and many jobs are going wanting. If you are determined to not let significant numbers of people into the Country, be prepared to pay higher salaries and concomitantly more for goods.
It is crystal clear the Trump Administration has no plan. I have personally found that, if you list for Trump anti-immigrant types the kinds of jobs and pay that many of the immigrants coming over the Southern border are forced to take, you get told that they wouldn't do those jobs themselves but, they don't want immigrants allowed in to do them. How are you going to get the work done if there aren't enough people here and you don't want to let more in?
15
ACH, the Democrats won't penalize employers either. It isn't all one-sided. Both sides want to keep them here.
4
And what about those illegals that do carpentry, roofing, block and tile work, concrete, etc? In this area, a Journeyman used to get $35-$40/hour plus benefits. An illegal makes $12-$15 with no benefits or insurance of any kind. They ARE taking some American's jobs, or forcing them to work for less, a lot less. But I feel that that is part of the bi-partisan plan, drive down wages.
13
I was touched by the sad expression on the child’s face: I feel badly for the child — may all children be happy.
4
To portray Nielsen as a victim of Trumpism is irresponsible journalism. She was one of the worst offenders of life and death mismanagement at the Southern border.
This reads like a book review leading up to a movie script based on a Nielsen sob story. The New York Times should know better. The Trump Administration pulled all aid to the very countries that people were fleeing from and aggravated the crisis.
The comments are ignorant and the story historically deficient.
19
Can we deport Trump's wives, kids and their tag along relatives? Be use not one of them does anything except take money from trump to keep quiet above his crimes and perversions.
10
President Trump was very smart in saying that border crossers have to have paid for protection in another country and provide proof.
2
Every time I go through TSA security at an airport I wish homeland security would go away. I’m not afraid of flying. I don’t need long lines because a few others are.
2
Cruelty and barbarism are not appropriate responses, ever.
I'm hearing many excuses: they're "illegal" immigrants (though it is perfectly legal to apply for asylum at the border), blah blah blah. Plus the lies: they're all criminals, bad guys, yak yak yak.
It's way past time to fix the laws around our broken immigration system--but all efforts at constructive legislation since 2004 have been destroyed by xenophobic fanatics like Stephen Miller. I hope someday they will all face justice.
Immigrants are our neighbors, our coworkers and our friends and they are making a positive impact on our community. They pay taxes and create value in the economy. You'd better believe we'd rather have them in our town than these vicious haters in the Trump administration.
I used to wonder how the Germans allowed themselves to tolerate the Nazis--allegedly because they "improved the economy." It's time for us to do our best to work against the Nazis among us. I don't agree with "The Squad" on many things--but I stand with The Squad in their right to hold the Trump administration accountable.
34
The headline is, bluntly, a lie. We do not have "Zero Tolerance" on immigration. One breaking into the country does not make one an immigrant. I was a legal immigrant, decades ago. The procedure for applying is not that onerous -- if you have the qualities that will enhance our country, not drain it of resources.
Those breaking in are, in law, "illegal aliens," not immigrants of any kind.
We have zero tolerance for illegal aliens.
The NYTimes has become the Fox News of the left. Lie, misstate, misinterpret -- anything to supply what it believes its readers want to hear. Well, read the comments; we don't want to be lied to.
You are supposed to be a newspaper, supposedly one of the most trusted newspapers in the world. That's your heritage.
Try living up to it.
19
Apparently you watch Fox News because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
People coming to this country for asylum aren’t “illegal”.
6
Thank you, NYT, for your unparalleled recounting of
Trump's grab bag approach to hyped emergencies;
John Kelly's soiling via Stephen Miller's secret scroll;
Kirstjen Nielson's swan dive to eager stooge;
and THE OPERATIONALLY UNPREPARED GOONS WHO SOLD CHILD SEPARATION:
Kevin McAleenan, then the head of C.B.P.
Thomas Homan, then the acting director of I.C.E.
L. Francis Cissna, then the director of C.I.S.
Lou Dobbs, TV advisor to Celebrity President and Fox Business Network host for IGNORING DECENCY.
13
Trump will do anything that personally benefits him. He is unprepared for the job he is holding. In someways he is very naive and believes in what appear to be simple solutions to very complex issues. His age, background and experience are barriers he cannot escape.
He believes that all his appointees and the entire federal bureaucracy are his personal employees.
There is no immediate solution to this sorry state of affairs. I am hoping some of the staunch republicans who worked in his administration will speak out openly before the next election on what a threat his second term would pose to the constitutional republic.
25
He also believes in getting his way even if it is illegal or unconstitutional. That’s why he has so much turnover. Many people refuse to break the law for him. And those that do get indicted.
7
Good luck with a single GOP member showing decency or humanity or patriotism. No profiles in courage are coming.
9
What a depressing set of comments and day of reporting. The comparison of legal immigration to “ringing a doorbell” is particularly absurd - the amount of bureaucracy one has to go through to immigrate and the risks involved with mistakes would, I hope, shock many Americans. It is a long, drawn out process with many confusing forms, thousands of dollars of filing fees (and perhaps many more thousands of legal fees if you are able to afford counsel), literal years of waiting, and much dependence on the discretion of immigration officers whom you have never met. If the officer doesn’t like your application, recourse is difficult and expensive, if it is even an option. Too bad if the result is having your family torn apart. I fear for a future of zero tolerance, when any kind of human mistake could lead to deportation, which, although a civil manner, has severe, documented damage to the families and communities involved and often results in permanent inadmissibility to the country.
People are finally starting to recognize the damage that zero tolerance has had in the “war on drugs” on individuals, families, and communities. Why would we then turn around and apply the same draconian principles to immigrants? What happened to empathy?
Consideration of the issue of illegal entry needs to also consider revision of the legal immigration process to make things more streamlined and fair.
13
@Joel Hughes
A Chinese friend applied for citizenship while she was an engineer working at Columbia University. It took 10 yrs., specialized attorneys and a cost of $10,000 dollars which she had due to a successful family in China. Citizenship papers are expensive, and never given in a short time frame. We make it difficult; the Tech Industry wants to bring in more foreign skilled techs which they can pay less than Americans who had to pay their way through college and Grad school. I think they should have to prove there are no qualified Americans with degrees available for hire. If more qualified Americans seek employment in other countries, Tech Industries will be competing in a smaller pool of those qualified. No one has ever accused upper management of being over populated with brilliant people. I worked in Administration for a multi-State corporation. We bought smaller companies and had to take on mediocre managers, unless they would accept buyouts. Mid-level good managers are hard to find in small companies; the big Tech companies will find that to be true.
12
After 6.5 years in US on a green card, I applied for a citizenship. About half a year later with all the paperwork done I passed the test and become a citizen. The fee, if any, must have been minimal, but I don’t remember the amount. Immigrants waving foreign flags and presenting borderline narcissistic sense of entitlement and ingratitude grates on me. “Send her back” should be anathema to me, and having my US citizenship subject to revocation an unmitigated disaster. I basically don’t even speak my native tongue anymore. But I am sympathetic to the revulsion Omar generates. After all these decades I still feel like a lucky and grateful guest of a generous family into which I married to. To be compared to Omars of this world is an insult.
7
Democrats may wonder how long the gift of Trump will keep on giving after he is gone.
In order to avoid “ripping” they must free families in 20 days. In order to avoid “terrorizing” they cannot deport freed families. Why would any sane migrant, political or economic, pass up such a guarantee? Can Democrats really make Central America more attractive than America? Failing that, for how large a surge have they budgeted immigration courts and social services, and estimated low-wage job availability, in a country where not everyone behind automation, outsourcing, union organization, and hockey-stick healthcare inflation supports the GOP? What of immigration from other regions? What if “without firing a single shot” Russia decides to punish America for electing a government of which it does not approve, by organizing flotillas of migrants from areas poorer and far more populous than Central America? Democratic candidates need to get ahead of these challenges.
10
Excellent reporting!
The debate about removing families is interesting. Obviously, some of the significant players are terrorized by having mean things said about them by the open border media, millenials and aliens.
Families are the most important targets for deportation. They are the ones flooding our schools, and healthcare systems, and welfare resources. They also are the ones who, sooner or later, will be the subject of so many tears about how the children did nothing wrong, and have grown up here, and are our next Einsteins (though even native-born Hispanics drop out of school, on average, in the tenth grade; they have the worst education record of any ethnic or racial group in America. The countries from which they originate have the worst educational performance in the entire world. So get rid of them before we have millions more DACA illegals.
In addition, one must be realistic about the sudden surge in "families" and "unaccompanied children". Why wouldn't this happen? Our open-border folks have told them, "Bring a kid along and eventually you'll be able to import your entire village! Bring a kid along and we won't bother you. Bring a kid along and you'll get welfare, schooling, healthcare, driver licences and nobody will ever hastle you."
Trump knows that if the government continues its abysmal ineffectiveness, eventually citizens, fed up with the effects on school systems, health systems, and crime, will take matters into their own hands. Won't be nice!
9
@Upton
"we should prioritize children for deportation."
Nice.
1
This is outstanding reporting - a roadmap of the issue and a rather terrifying glimpse into the dysfunction of not only Trump, but those he surrounds himself with. Keep it up - we need these insights to formulate responses. I would say that it should help with strategy but there does not seem to be much rhyme or reason to much of decision making happening.
5
The only way to effectively control immigration is to aggressively prosecute employers who purposefully hire undocumented immigrants. The real problem from 1986 forward, has been the failure to enforce the penalties written into the Immigration Reform Act passed by the Reagan Administration. Employers were allowed to accept obvious forgeries as proof of compliance with the employment eligibility statutes. Everybody knew they were violating the law but the "entrepreneurs" hiring those actually ineligible for employment, were generous campaign contributors. Over the following decades, entire industries were distorted by the exploitation of desperate workers, willing to accept sub-minimum wage pay, criminally dangerous working & living conditions & systemic wage theft. This allowed business owners, usually protected by opaque corporate structures, to evade taxes & enrich themselves at the expense of these workers. Law-abiding employers & businesses inevitably suffered huge competitive disadvantages and were compelled to adapt similar practices or resign themselves to ultimate financial failure. A system of Sanctuary Employers, not Sanctuary Cities, is the economic engine powering uncontrollable migration into the US. Pres. Trump, a self-proclaimed genius (& hypocrite) used these illegal business practices his entire career. When employers are immune from prosecution & their corporate assets protected from confiscation, we are undermining our laws & our national security.
21
@mike4vfr
Depends on the State where a corporation exists. CT, where I worked for 22 yrs. had e-verify, as did other NE States. RI was the exception; they would incorporate just about anything. Big Ag is another problem. FL has a problem with illegal migrants. Unfortunately, corporations write laws now; their large campaign donations make it difficult to prosecute them under any laws. Public financing of elections would stop a lot of the campaign bribery.
5
@Linda Miilu, thanks for reading & thpughtfully responding to my comment. I-verify had some effect when first enacted, in the early '90's as I recall. And I can't judge how persistent the effect was overall. I can say that, with my employer in Florida by 2004, I-verify appeared to be another part of the deception plan. It was easily integrated into the procedure we used to assemble a complete personnel file but meaningless for verifying legal qualification for employment in the US. There just was not then and still is not now, the political will or financial incentive to close the open borders that employers demand. The rhetoric about "control of the borders" is meant to sound good to the Trump base, while hiding the criminality at the core of illegal employment.
6
The US takes in more people than any other nation. It the illegal immigration that the President wants to stop. A basic idea of a nation state is defined and defended borders.
Because we are a welfare providing nation we must decide who and the number of people who can come here. And we have done so through our legal process. Since over 90% of asylum seekers are not allowed to stay, it is nuts, to continue the present system where we catch and release. Obviously, the Democrat leadership has it in for the President, because they all VOTED to stop illegals from coming in before Trump took office. The last amnesty was a failure and we shouldn't repeat the mistakes of the past.
19
Reading through some of these comments is very disturbing. It seems that the majority has forgotten the lines on the Statue of Liberty - “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
Although there are undoubtedly other points of view, my experience with illegal immigrants has been uniformly positive. The ones I know are valuable members and contributing members of our nation.
If you want to see what immigrant phobia leads to, try reading the article that appeared in the Times about a Honduran girl who killed herself after her father was repeatedly stopped at the border trying to reunite with her.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/magazine/immigration-department-of-homeland-security.html
12
@Fred Harder
A poem is not policy.
The Statue of Liberty has nothing to do with immigration, never did. It was a centennial gift from France to the U.S. in 1876 to celebrate 100 years of shared democratic philosophies - including the central pillar of the law.
Emma Lazarus was an activist, and many Americans objected to adding that ode to her Russian jewish ancestors to the base of the SoL in 1903.
14
The NYT continues to conflate illegal immigration with legal immigration.
Inaccurate, unfair (to legal immigrants and American citizens) and pathetic (from a journalistic integrity standpoint).
23
Actually, America—the nation, the people—have plenty of tolerance for immigration. It’s just this racist administration and their most hateful followers that seem to have zero.
11
I think detention conditions should be improved and enough funding should be provided to make sure they are safe and sanitary and asylum cases are heard in a timely manner. But, no, most of them should not get to stay or jump ahead of people who came here legally. How is that fair? Gang violence, domestic violence and poverty aren’t reasons for asylum.
25
When I came from India in 1982, I was enamored at this country on a) respect for law, b) very civil approaches discuss and resolve and c) consistency of process. Going through the process, I became a US citizen in 2002. I now see a part of the population not wanting to respect the immigration laws. Yes, there is room for compassion (on people wanting to come to this country). But, coming into this country can never be an entitlement no matter what the causes are. Yes, there are international asylum laws that describes criteria for asylum; personal safety from gang members is not one of them. I don’t know of any other country that’s as generous about immigration policies as the U.S. However, with respect to Central American countries, best option may be for international community to step in to stabilize the countries. That may a cost-effective and pragmatic option.
35
A survey by the Washington Post has concluded that more than 60% of Mexicans are for deporting Central Americans crossing their country on their way to the US. Even though Mexico has the highest percentage of illegal immigrants living in the US.
I said this because each time someone opposes illegal immigration, the person is called racist or xenophobe.
I speak as a recent immigrant in this country. I have missed my mother funeral because I could not get the documents on time to travel. It takes years and a longer period of time to have anything done for legal immigrants, for all the resources are allocated to the Southern border to deal with people whose asylum claims will mostly be rejected because there was no case, to begin with.
Domestic violence, poverty or gang violence are no ground for asylum. An Asylee is someone who flees persecution from a government. These false claims at the border would make it difficult for true asylees to find refuge in the US.
The US is not to blame for corruption in Central America. The politicians and the elite of those countries have used corrupt money to buy expensive houses and condos in South Fl.
48
I no longer feel safe in my own country. And I was born here.
11
@PerAxel Key word "FEEL"... your feeling unsafe is not actual danger it is a miss-appropriated emotion. I suggest that you might need to address your feelings.
13
Zero tolerance since 1965 always ought have been the rule - as it is the law. Absent that zero tolerance, you end up with a never ending bloat of 22+ million illegals, anchor babies and relatives.
27
The number of people in other countries who are desperate, being persecuted, or simply desirous of "a better life" far exceeds the ability of this country to absorb them, especially because those who are most desperate are also (naturally) most dependent, overall. For about 90% of them, their need for services is enormous and beyond the capacity of our agencies to absorb them, certainly at the pace that the liberals demand. If the U.S. merely passively responds to demand, we will be The Fourth World by the end of the century, and it will resemble the Third far more than the First. So-called developing countries are not developing fast enough.
37
It has been said now three times by three different people who say they have all the money in the world that there is the next after a trillion Italian Lira to Dollars in the world.
It is disheartening to see that the most popular comments here, in the NYT, appear to be those that criticize Democrats for having as one of their primary concerns on immigration policy treating human beings like human beings. Seems like a fundamental and necessary part of any policy, immigration or otherwise. Trump has been extraordinarily successful in conflating a demand for human treatment of human beings as a cry for open borders. The same can be said about the very minority position amongst progressives concerning decriminalization of illegal immigration. It is not synonymous with a call for open borders. Illegality and criminality are not always one and the same. There are thousands of behaviours that are deemed illegal and have consequences without having the increase stigma of criminality. Building and funding a functioning and humane asylum system with adequate resources, rather than building completely useless walls and starving the existing asylum programs is hardly a cry for open borders. Funding programs in asylum seekers home countries in an effort to alleviate the problems that drive people to travel thousands of miles in an uncertain and desperate attempt to enter the US, rather than cutting off support to those countries, is hardly a cry for open borders. One final thought; Trump proclaiming that Progressives are for open borders should be your biggest clue that it isn’t true. He is, after all, a pathological liar.
15
This headline is a misnomer. The Trump administration does not have a "zero tolerance on immigration". They have a zero tolerance on ILLEGAL immigration.
I would argue that any citizen of any nation who cares about her future should also have a zero tolerance on illegal immigration.
40
Trump is also reducing the number of visas available for legal immigrants.
3
Asylum seeking is a right by international agreement. The volume of asylum seekers from Central. America is due to extreme violence and want. The facilities and personnel needed to process the asylum seekers is grossly inadequate. That is the crisis. Trump is trying to pretend that he can just make it go away because he is unwilling to deal with the problem as it is. He makes a problem into a near catastrophe by acting like a silly person.
For now, we must expand the facilities and find the people to manage the volume of asylum seekers. Then we need to use international organizations to stabilize the Central American countries to stop the emigration from them. It’s s lot of work but any competent leader should be able to see it accomplished.
6
@Casual Observer
These are economic migrants, same as are leaving Africa, the mideast and eastern Europe for the stable economies and generous welfare of UK and Europe.
Of course, these people want 1st world lives. They've not done the hard work to earn that in their own countries, which starts with limiting the highest birth rates in the world - the fast track to permanent poverty and crime; valuing an education and females enough to allow them an education instead of child brides and rape; keeping Vatican Inc. at arms length on patriarchal denial of birth control; and not raising violent sons who become cartel thugs and gang members.
America already took in 1/3 of Mexico, the poorest and illiterate. We are not better for it and neither is Mexico. All that did from the 1960s was encourage more poverty and higher birth rates here and there, along with the same in Central America that's become the new supply line. Thge U.S. is not the world's trash can or relief value that never shuts off.
17
Really? Who let YOU in?
2
Many people are commenting here that they approve of immigration, just not illegal immigration.
And yet, last night the crowd at Trump's rally were chanting "send her back" about a Congresswoman who immigrated to this country legally.
This is not about humanely finding a way to craft policies that will address the desire for people to come to this country, balanced with national security needs. This is about Trump and his ilk exploiting the fear of the other for their own benefit.
They hope to win the next election based on this fear.
They hope to keep people distracted from the fact that Republicans gave a huge tax break to the very wealthy based on this fear.
And that last point, sadly, seems to be working on many, as another common refrain in these comments is that undocumented immigrants are sucking up our resources, when we can't even pay for our own citizens. Hey, could that be because Republicans are decimating our social safety net while making sure corporations and the wealthy don't have to pay taxes?
13
When you survey your classroom and you expect that half of them to go to prison then you know have reached your tipping point. Yes, it’s that bad!
16
Unfortunately we humans are so immature as a species, both mentally and emotionally, that few are capable of realizing the inhabitants of this small globe cannot withstand the selfish clannishness of individual countries, or the unfettered greed of individuals running those countries, in a time of planet wide destruction from climate change.
Mass migration is just beginning. Unless some worldwide governing body is supported financially and legally to mitigate the worst of the effects in countries like the northern triangle, millions rather than thousands will be fleeing to more hospitable climates.
Climate change is a much more potent driver even than the astounding income inequality (59% poverty rate in Guatemala and Honduras, 35% in El Salvador) in northern triangle countries.
Old acts of nationalist aggression have present day consequences. European colonizing dating back centuries has left a legacy of extreme poverty for the surviving indigenous populations, with crime as one of far to few options for survival of the poor.
The viciousness of the European colonial era is still impacting generation after generation of the people who were conquered. It's time for the colonialist countries to repair the damage done to the conquered countries, or welcome the migrating descendants of the populations they enslaved or economically destroyed.
(Poverty percentages from World Bank data.)
4
@Myrasgrandotter
Birth control.
Central America has had some of the world's highest birth rates for decades. Once you move past all of Africa - horrific places to be female, everywhere below the southern U.S. border is a failed state-birth rate nightmare.
13
@Myrasgrandotter
3rd world Overpopulation today is not a product of European colonialism that died 1/2 century ago
13
@Myrasgrandotter
European countries aren't "welcoming" these migrants, we are.
5
You spend all day in a classroom filled with illegal immigrants who have far more severe behavioral problems than math to solve. It is beyond control of one person and frankly why our schools are failing them...not to mention harming those who can be taught.
The tipping point was reached more than six years ago but Pelosi and her Sister Squad are oblivious or just plain dense.
35
Which part of "illegal" don't Dems understand?
We must be in control of our own borders, or we are not a sovereign nation. Increase the amount of visas, so more can come in legally, but deport anyone who has come here illegally.
All these people, and the NYT, who pretend to care, please board a plane and go down to the South American country of your choosing and help the people there so they can stay home and not risk a perilous journey.
But you are not going to do it, are you? No, you just want to sell us your useless sympathy and moral "superiority".
Someone said that most illegal immigrants are here because they overstayed their visas, and that they came via our airports. This makes no sense, because when I go use the ATM, I don't see a choice for Arabic or Swahili, or even Chinse. I only see a choice for Spanish. Are you telling me that most of the Hispanics in this country came via airports and overstayed visas? Absurd.
29
Just look at the top ten murder capitals of the world...yes, five of them are in Mexico and the rest are in South America! Who wants to live in a society like Venezuela for heaven’s sake. Brazil and Colombia are at their breaking points.
Mexico is in a financial recession and they are exporting their problems to us...wake up!
27
How is it that many US cities with large numbers of immigrants, such as El Paso, have relatively low crime rates?
3
Until and unless quoted anonymous sources are willing to stand up with honor and be identified, rather than cowering in fear for their precious jobs, accusations and chants of “fake news” are only going to be amplified. Have these people no shame at all for enabling this criminal and inhuman behavior? Remember Nazi Germany? I won’t be surprised to see these war criminals resort to gas chambers as their final solution to the immigration problem with its white supremacy underpinnings. And then what? Papers of Record are complicit if they do not insist on full disclosure. If these anonymous sources are so supremely talented, then they need not fear losing their jobs as they can get honorable employment elsewhere at better salaries. But whispered stories “on background “ fully diminishes the reporting. The media created this monster. They have a responsibility and obligation to clean it up before it destroys them along with the rest of us. Or, as some suspect, are they just in the business of selling papers and advertising while blindly helping make America white again, which it never really ever was?
2
While legally probably correct, this below is obvious rubbish, widely and shamelessly abused by the hapless and unfortunate people who falsely claim to be asylum seekers, and very stupidly endorsed and encouraged by the strange group of US citizens who called themselves 'progressives' or 'liberals'.
"Under federal law and international treaties, people fleeing persecution in their home country may seek to live in safety in the United States. If someone arriving at the border requested asylum, she said, the United States could not legally turn that person away without processing the claim, and there was no legal mechanism by which the United States could hang a “no vacancy” sign at its borders."
4
Every time a liberal person, leftist person, or New York Times headline writer fails to make the crucial distinction between legal and illegal immigration, another Trump voter is born.
42
@O'Brien
To put a finer point on it: Another Democrat walks over to the GOP.
This is what the Democratic Party so stupidly did throughout the 1970s over sky high violent crime rates, resulting in a blue wave voting Reagan red in 1980. And the rest is history.
If the GOP would ever drop its insane theocrat bible banger war on birth control and all females, it would easily win election after election after election.
8
Of course if Trump's fans are going to keep screaming that immigrants are illegal, then perhaps we should throw their dear leader in jail since he's been hiring undocumented workers for years.
6
I consider myself quite left of center here in Canada. That translates to way left of center in the USA. I’ve watched my home, Toronto, be enriched by immigrants. Still I have very little sympathy for those who try to jump the line or avoid the line altogether by going underground. They become a source of cheap labor who are ripe for exploitation and they undermine the efforts of unions who fought for fair wages and healthy, safe working conditions. This week the Times published an article about the ineffectiveness of farm labor laws in California because of the reluctance of undocumented workers to come forward with complaints. Those laws were hard won.
36
Yes, hard won but easily evaded with victims refusing to step up. Many affluent people, liberal and conservative, use undocumented people for household services. Many business people, mostly conservatives, use undocumented labor to save money on wages and by not operating in compliance with the law.
12
@Casual Observer I agree with you completely. There are two sides to this issue and I have to say that I’ve never heard of individuals or businesses being charged any offence related to hiring people who are undocumented. Surely there are laws on the books.
1
No.
Just no.
The way we got to this horrific state of affairs is by (1) endless efforts by the open borders activists to undercut border security, making a mockery of the 1986 Immigration Reform Act, demanding endless expansions well beyond international law of how we define refugees, combined with (2) greedy business people and suburbanites looking for cheap construction workers, cheap maids, cheap hotel workers, and cheap agricultural workers.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause.
And until Pravda On The Hudson understands that and reports that and supports policies dealing with that, the situation is only going to get more extreme.
33
These are asylum seekers overwhelming our capacity to process them. We are obliged by international agreement to consider their requests. All the rest of this discussion is irrelevant.
@Casual Observer
And they are required by law to go through the process and if denied asylum to be deported.
18
@Casual Observer
They HAVE to apply at the first safe country they reach. Many of them are NOT doing that. Even the one's who are have fake claims that don't meet the criteria. Coach them all you want, they are all going back one way or the other.
10
The policy recommended by rump is also the policy of Canada, Mexico and the European Union. It is fairly universal. The Interpreter's opinions of where the policy is implemented is too narrow. A recent poll in Mexico indicates that more than 75% of the Mexican people do not want the migrants, either. This is a fact. President Barack Obama deported a huge number of migrants, but had fewer to deal with than Trump, because fewer came, largely because US unemployment was higher in the Obama-Biden Administration, It is now lower. More come. These are facts. We need to deal with whatever facts are there
31
The USA needs much stronger immigration control.
The USA already has 330 million people.
Every year, the USA grants more than 1 million "green cards",
the right to legal permanent residency,
with a clear path to citizenship,
plus hundreds of thousands of supposedly "temporary" visas
for supposedly "temporary" residence
in a plethora of categories,
that somehow ended up getting endlessly extended
and become de facto permanent.
This is the most generous immigration system in the world.
The USA does not need more.
The USA has no obligation to take more.
Nonetheless,
Dems and the rest of the pro-open-borders crowd
keep pushing for more and more and more.
We now have at least 10 million, maybe 20 million,
illegal immigrants --
that's on top of over 30 million foreign-born legally here.
In addition, so-called "asylum-seekers" are swarming the border, making bogus asylum claims
and taking advantage of gaping loopholes in the law.
There simply is no right to "asylum" from poverty,
nor from "domestic violence",
nor from "gang violence".
Asylum-seekers must do more than simply claim "asylum" --
they must prove their right to it.
And, unless and until they prove it,
they can be -- and ought to be -- detained -- 24/7 --
all of them -- adults as well as children -- no exceptions.
And when their flimsy claims for "asylum" are denied --
or not pursued --
- as is usually the case --
they can be -- and ought to be -- deported -- ASAP --
all of them -- adults and children -- no exceptions.
37
Egregiously extravagant population growth in the developing world - THAT'S a large part of how we got to zero tolerance on immigration. Developing nations must embrace a one child policy or suffer the consequences.
24
@Victor Wong
Starts with men getting their boot heel off the necks of females, educating girls and not raping every female in one's country, as well as not selling girls into child bride sexual slavery to 60-year-old pedophiles...just because your religion says its okay.
8
@Maggie
So,
surely you agree --
keep out all immigrant men,
especially those from Latin America,
the most machismo culture of all.
If Latin women are admitted,
then never -- not ever --
allow them to "sponsor" any Latin men.
So, when are you going to start marching for that?
I am heartened by reading these comments, the overwhelming number of which support a policy of zero tolerance for illegal immigration. Some have said that they wished that the Democratic candidates would read these comments, hoping, I suppose, that doing so might get them to alter their positions on immigration. The problem is that as desirable as that would be, the sound bites and the videos are in the public domain and cannot be walked back in. The Democrats have in effect already lost the election by the insanity they displayed during the debates.
The blame for much of where we are now on this issue lies with this newspaper and other members of the liberal media. The Times, in particular, and its obsession with pushing a liberal, open borders, immigration agenda has been painful to observe from those of us who would hope that the most influential newspaper would be objective on an issue which is so important to the nation. But consider that population growth, and what that entails for the environmental, economic, and social health of our country, has never been examined in any article or opinion piece in this paper, to my knowledge. But the fact that our country has grown from a population of around 150 million some 50 years ago to over 320 million today, and that that increase has been driven by immigration, is hugely important, and deserves consideration which neither the Times nor the media generally, nor our Congress, have given it.
47
@Wan
Thank you for the courage of your words.
15
More Americans are having difficulty living on their income. The buying power of wages has been steadily declining. Americans can not afford to support a tsunami of unskilled migrants that they will have to support. There is no way the mother of the infant pictured at the beginning of this article can earn enough to support herself and that child. Also bear in mind that medical expenses tend to be quite a bit higher and education will be much more costly, because American English will not be used at home. Where will the money come from? School districts that cannot adequately pay its teachers?
32
@Maureen THANK YOU! The struggling state of most middle class Americans needs to be addressed by Dems, especially when they beg for sympathy for illegal immigrants. The average U.S. Household doesn't have $400 for an emergency. There are reports of college students going to food banks for dinner. Student debt is in the trillions. Millennials are forced to put off buying homes and having kids because they simply can't afford it. But then, my taxes can't help cancel student loan debt or provide for universal healthcare or better roads, no! They must go to building Hilton hotels for people seeking asylum who are ultimately going to be denied their claims. These "asylum seekers" are poor and uneducated. They don't provide any benefit except as cheap labor to be exploited and dragging down success rates of schools.
10
@Lexi
Educated asylum seekers do not walk 2,000 miles to a border checkpoint, with a few exceptions. They fly in, or arrive on a ship. They have family money to support themselves, e.g. those from India and China. They invest in, or buy businesses.
4
We should have been zero tolerance from the beginning. Instead our country and legal citizens were subjected to weak leadership and partisan beneficial policies while immigrants suffered along with our citizens. The shear premise that someone has a right to plop down in our country without merit or proper documentation is ridiculous. The flood of illegal immigrants must and will stop as the majority of the country supports stopping this invasion.
30
Trump contributed to this situation by cutting off aid to the countries many of these people are fleeing from. He could have tried to negotiate with those countries just as he did with Mexico. He also shouldn't have separated families at the border. Now Americans are paying for child care in addition to 3 hots and a cot of the child(ren) AND the parents in different locations! Guess who is raking in the money for these internment camps? Republican owned companies. Little wonder they continue to push the blame onto the folks who control America's checkbook-Congress!
8
@Independent American
Pfft. Democrats and LBJ started this in 1965. Democrats kept it going and broke their word in 1986, after agreeing to finally fix that broken 1965 immigration law in exchange for Reagan's amnesty agreement.
Illegal immigration and the decades old desperate need for legal immigration reform was the core issue that put Donald Trump the White House. It will again.
4
WRONG. Republicans REFUSE to hold employers/companies accountable for hiring illegal immigrants as per Reagan's Immigration reform bill of 1986. They still refuse to do so today despite E-verify making that so much easier to make folks are legal to work here.
1
Good! Close the border for 20 years except for genius IQ level people and let’s revisit then. We are just mass importing a new dependent class whose jobs will be eliminated by robots in 3-5 years. My friend is a Chilean Trump supporter. He says his entire family got in when one relative immigrated, and pretty much everyone in his family lives on government benefits and doesn’t bother learning English. The 1965-era immigration-through-family loophole experiment has failed. Time to take care of Americans and create a cohesive cultural and ethnic identity.
37
I wish most of the living former Presidents would speak out on this shameful fiasco.
4
The US needs migrants. Our birth rate has been declining for decades and is below replacement numbers. The largest generation in US history is at retirement age and beyond. We need an influx of young workers and taxpayers.
I'd say, vet people, and if they aren't smuggling drugs or humans, let 'em in to build a better life. I have no problem with them accessing social services while they get on their feet; it will cost less than detention centers and ICE raids. The opportunity to start a new life is the promise of America, and I for one still believe in it.
6
@April
You're believing an ideal that doesn't exist. A small percentage of unskilled, uneducated immigrants (parents with 3rd-grade education, etc.) are ambitious enough to truly assimilate into a productive middle class. They remain on the margins of social service dependency and will actually be doing that much more while the future in the First World (that is, survival itself)belongs to the sophisticated, who can keep up: the educated and those who contribute to and benefit from a technologically advanced society. Having taught in U.S. immigrant-overrun schools for years, I can tell you that the evidence does not support your thesis. They show no interest in advancing educationally, linguistically, economically, but rather maintaining a separate culture and moving from simply unskilled to barely skilled jobs. At whatever birth rate, that kind of "replacement" population will be insufficient for a very modern First World.
27
@April A nation is more than just a random collection of humans thrown together. A nation is based on culture, language, and community.
11
I live in northern California. Nearly all the construction workers, gardeners, farm workers, laborers, etc, in this area are immigrants. A good proportion of the silicon valley engineers, programmers and tech workers are immigrants. They are indispensable to the local economy, even if their presence offends people in Kansas and Missouri.
8
@David
What a misleading reply. The "good proportion of SV engineers, programmers and tech workers" are largely educated, and most quite educated, not to mention bilingual, even trilingual, and *legally* here. The blue collar population of immigrants that you reference are largely (not completely) illegally here, and there is a limit to how many can truly survive in the SV as blue collar workers, given the highest COL, as a region, in the entire U.S.
18
For the approximate 100,000,000 + dollars we spend on Federal Top level salaries to Senators, Represenatives, Cabinet Secretaries one might think that a rational immigration policy might be casted some of which features might be:
1. Heavy funding of Northern Triangle Nations to improve conditions so that there is much less impetus to flee there.
2. Some estimate of the necessary numbers of immigrants of which type useful to the U.S. since the birthrate is near zero and there are many jobs which migrants will take and natives will not.
3. Heavy Search of vehicles entering the U.S. from Mexico to prevent drug flow.
4. Agents of potential employers stationed at augmented facilities at entry points.
5. Coverage of the entire rural border by sensors and
patrols including aircraft to fly people out of the desert to prevent deaths there.
Surely all the people who study the border could come up with better ideas, my are free and the Federal Government is heavily paid. Surely we have hired enough intelligence to further figure out the problem.
3
@Michael Cohen
American taxpayers have been sending nearly $100 billion per year to those northern triangles hellholes for years, with nothing in return to the U.S. or improvement in those 3rd world places.
8
I live in northern California. Nearly all the construction workers, gardeners, farm workers, laborers, etc, in this area are immigrants. A good proportion of the silicon valley engineers, programmers and tech workers are immigrants. They are indispensable to the local economy, even if their presence offends people in Kansas and Missouri.
9
@David
Illegal aliens working in our construction industry are taking jobs from American citizens...while driving wages down. Unacceptable!
22
Until the business strategy based on hiring undocumented migrants becomes untenable, we will continue to undermine our economy, our democratic institutions and our national security. Donald Trump won his presidency by telling voters that economic migrants came into the US simply because we didn't have a wall at the Mexican border to stop them. Nobody thought to question the jobs that American businesses provided to "undocumented" migrants & ignored the established fact that most "illegal aliens" arrive at airports with tourist visas. They stay for the employment paying American dollars. Employers provide these migrants the ability to support their families in Central America while also supporting themselves here. Dollars are worth a great deal more than the currency they would be paid, even with a good job, in their home countries. Trump's strategy was to appeal to his base & their prejudices while deflecting attention away from illegal employment. If he were to cancel business licenses or confiscate corporate assets & equipment and/or begin vigorously prosecuting & imprisoning corporate officers & owners; our immigration problems would disappear. No doubt, some of the changes in the economy would be wrenching. The flow of economic migrants would stop, quickly and at little expense. Of course, there would be a price to pay in campaign contributions and lobbying fees from the entrepreneurs and the business geniuses. Still, that would be a small price by any measure.
1
Prosecute the Sanctuary Employers, confiscate their corporate assets, prison time for employers violating statutes prohibiting the employment of anyone without a valid "Green Card." Our immigration problem will disappear. All the rest of the noise is pure distraction, intended to protect the campaign contributions that come from the so-called "entrepreneurs", enriching themselves by exploiting undocumented workers!
3
I’ve lived in this country for 70 years. I ‘m 82. My experience has taught me that immigration laws have always been meant to keep people like me, brown skinned, uneducated and poor, as far away from the ports of entry as is possible.
10
@Salvador Ramirez It is about time that you read the information you need. 70 years is too long to wait for getting information. Immigration laws were generally meant to exclude people, but brown-skinned like you is an assumption. Please read. Early immigration laws were meant to exclude Chinese. These are not brown-skinned people. Then, there were tight laws designed to deal with southern Europeans. Again, not like you. During the 1930s the USA did not want to take in Jews. Actually, we returned a whole ship of Jews fleeing the Nazis and they were slaughtered when they returned to Europe. See the movie "Ship of Fools." The current immigration law is NOT designed to keep out brown-skinned people, and it dates from the Reagan years, when tens of millions of ILLEGALLY ARRIVED immigrants were granted a path to citizenship. We take 1 million new citizens a year. What is happening is that a huge migration is coming to the USA, just as it is coming to Europe, and this migration involves a hopeful 300 million people. Most of them are dark-skinned. However, it is not BECAUSE they are dark-skinned that there is resistance to the migration, but because of the huge quantity. Germany took about a million, and faced a further 2 million EACH COMING YEAR. Germany is smaller than Montana. Since everyone in Congress calls everyone else a racist, and also calls one another racist, this is very popular as an argument. But, it is still about 300 million who want to move.
13
@Salvador Ramirez
Read a history book. The U.S. has had immigration laws since the 1790s. Every nation has immigration laws. The U.S. are the saps of the world for ever letting in millions per year illiterate, insane, unskilled, diseased, dangerous and unsuitable for civilized society.
4
@Salvador Ramirez
Except when they were meant to keep out poor Irish immigrants, and later poor immigrants from Eastern Europe, none of whom were brown skinned. Ever run across the wording on past signs "No Irish Need Apply"? Long before immigrants were arriving from Mexico. The original settlers from England and the Netherlands were not looking for brown skinned people, with the exception of those brought in ships to be sold as black slaves in Caribbean markets. This history is much longer than 70 yrs. I am Irish/English both sides; the maternal side arrived in Boston via Quebec and Ireland, eventually going West to SF; they worked as maids, married well if they were pretty, and became Americans. The paternal side sold land in Ireland and financed their trip to the U.S., eventually hiring a wagon train and settling in Oregon. No one in my family kept brown skinned people out; in fact, I grew up with Mexican/Spanish kids in the Central Valley whose families had been here longer than mine. One of my oldest and best friends is one of them. CA is different from TX, as are NM and AZ; don't generalize TX history with all of the Southwestern and Western States.
3
It's beyond imagining how long after Trump's departure, may it be 2021, will be enough time to repair the damage to our entire system of immgration, infrastructure, professional staffing, policy restoration, foreign relations, and our national self confidence, just to name a few.
Knowing well that following his electoral defeat, Trump cultists will continue to comprise about 2 out of 5 voters may be useful, but it is terrifying.
5
@JS
He won't be defeated. None of the Open Border Proponents facing him have a chance in 2020. Want to beat him? Better draft Michelle Obama she is the only one who has a chance.
3
@GregP
He will either be defeated, or in Court defending against multiple lawsuits. I am less concerned with the 'Open Border' meme promoted by Fox News than with the most corrupt Administration and Congress in my long life. We now have Courts with unqualified Judges, courtesy of this right wing Administration, which will impact us for decades. One recent confirmed appointee had never practiced law or appeared in any Court; he said he intended to learn on the job (while handing down Decisions).
2
The actions under "Zero Tolerance" constitute crimes against humanity.
7
Articles like this one is how we got here.
33
"How America Got to ‘Zero Tolerance’ on Immigration."
That headline says it all about the tone-deaf approach of the open borders crowd.
I know of no one who is opposed to LEGAL immigration. Many loyal Americans, including myself, want more LEGAL immigration. We want smart, hard-working people who will help grow our country and love being here.
The headline must include the magic word "illegal." The fact that hundreds of thousands of people are abusing the system is what is driving the opposition.
Most of the asylum seekers are looking for better economic opportunities, which is not a legal cause for asylum.
Furthermore, they are not using the proper legal channels, including stopping at the FIRST country they come to and applying there for the asylum.
Those factors, along with the media's refusal to use the word "illegal," for people who are clearly here illegally — at least 11 million people, if not more — are what is fueling this blowback.
The resistance to illegal (got that word illegal?) immigration is so fierce that it ensures Mr. Trump's re-election in 2020.
42
@Paul
“Those factors, along with the media's refusal to use the word "illegal," for people who are clearly here illegally — at least 11 million people, if not more — are what is fueling this blowback.”
A couple of other factors –
The Republicans’ silence on what to do about the 11 million people here illegally. George Bush’s Immigration Reform bill of 2007 was rejected by Republicans and we’ve heard nothing from them since.
Border crossings were about two thirds lower under the Obama Administration than under Trump’s In addition there were more deportations in the Obama era. This may be resolved by having a consistent management team in place – something that Trump seems to have failed to do in a number of areas, given the staff turnover in his Administration.
10
@Paul
It’s over 20 million, according to a recent Yale study.
13
@Paul
I believe the proper word is Undocumented. You can be declared illegal after you have been documented and processed through Immigration courts. Not all Undocumented are illegal; many of them were born here to undocumented immigrants; they are afraid their status is not legal; it is a gray area. Maybe the literate Times reporters are correct not to use the word Illegal.
1
We’ve heard a lot of talk about “refugees” in all this controversy but nowhere have I heard any talk about refugee relief as in UNHRC, only Anerica’s immigration policy. Any responsible resolution for the present situation should include all available resources. Handle refugees as such and immigrants as immigrants. Why is this so complicated to understand?
2
This is scary stuff given that these Trump appointees are not fit for service. As I have previously claimed, "ICE is just following the law" is just right-wing double talk for racism. While we have immigration laws in the US, the president is clearly using ICE to attack immigrants of all sorts that are not doing anything wrong. Some might say, "well, they shouldn't be here." Again, the vast majority of immigrants are not doing anything wrong and research has shown that immigrants, legal and illegal, add to the tax base which helps all of us. (https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229018/undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes)
Furthermore, as this article illustrates, and as I have written before in comments and been attacked for writing, immigrants seeking asylum are here legally pending review. If we want to help the situation, "go away" is not the proper or moral method (hear that evangelicals). Let's help the border security forces with better facilities and more employees so we can help people in need and help ourselves.
6
@Anthony As a brown skinned legal immigrant to this country I could not disagree with you more. It is ICE's job to remove people here illegally. How is that racist?
It does not matter if people are not committing crimes.If they came here illegally or overstayed their visas they ought to be removed. I don't understand how you think that is racist. If you don't want anybody deported for entering the country illegally then just don't have any immigration laws then.
26
@Anthony Illegal immigrants cost money. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/david-frum-how-much-immigration-is-too-much/583252/
12
Trump could be the very reason that potentially good citizens turn bad. I would not be at all surprised to see some correlation between people who before Trump came to power might hold normal grudges against the policies and behaviors of the US but have been directly radicalized by his hate filled rants about us versus the rest of the world, America First! I’m not surprised that the rest of the world has a dim view of the US at the moment. This “American Carnage” is the wrecking ball Trump and the Administration is swinging to permanently destroy this nation as we all knew it, both its goodness AND it’s imperfections. Frankly I’m embarrassed to be an American at the moment. Norway-are you accepting ex-patriot US citizens?????
4
The Democrats let things get out of hand when they began pandering to southern-border immigrants to get votes of US Hispanics. Look where that's gotten us. Some are now calling fo things like free Medicaid or Medicare for undocumented aliens, free college tuition, etc. If the Democratic candidates don't come up with a rational compassionate immigration plan, we are going to be complaining about trump until Jan. 2021. Maybe (heaven prevent it) longer. The Democrats have to stop the immigration nonsense or they will have some of voters at the very least sitting out 2020.
33
Last summer, 2018, there were 4 Republican immigration reform bills that came before the house to be voted on. The repubs controlled the house and could pass anything they wanted without one single Democrat vote. Even with that power and all the bills being republican they still couldn't pass a single one of them. Don't blame the dems.
4
Many of us would like to see Congress enact new legislation that directly addresses both legal and illegal immigration, including asylum. But to do that, it has to be a compromise bill that the President will sign. With Stephen Miller running the immigration part of DHS (he is the de facto leader), that’s an impossibility.
8
I do not believe it is possible under our current economic system to get control of illegal labor violations because the corruption has permeated every aspect of our economy, with too many states and cities hugely dependent on the labor, business income, and government entities that serve those people and their families. California would lose, say, ten percent of its taxes/business profits, perhaps more, considering how much the employers earn from illegal labor; then the state and local governments would need to lay off teachers, cops, firefighters, medical workers, etc. After all the sound and fury, expect business as usual, but if we do nothing about unchecked immigration, expect the Latino population to get so large that they may decide to break away and declare a Latino Kosovo in a few decades.
7
No, but they will vote in their own people. The Democrats are mistaken if they assume that all the illegals, if they give them citizenship, will vote Democrat. The Republicans WILL play, The Catholic Card, definitely. Most legal Mexican immigrants that I know, vote Republican, due to the religious angle.
8
When polled, immigration is the least cared about issue in this country. Trump's campaign decided to make the non-issue an issue because Trump could remember the slogan "Build that wall!" But now people are literally being tortured and dying in these detention centers and it's now a humanitarian crisis. And because Trump has nothing to run on, he has to keep inciting the fake issue over and over again at the cost of dying children. He has no conscience and his supporters are paid for and manufactured for his "show." But real people are being abused and torn apart for his "show." He needs to resign or be impeached.
9
Illegal immigration is the number one issue right now. If this continues, we will go broke, housing, feeding, educating and treating these people. And nobody is torturing anybody in the border detention camps.
24
@BorisRoberts
Lack of adequate decent food, showers, bedding, etc. might not seem like torture to you. The for profit Detention Camps, including tents, are not well run. They are under staffed, and given the recent FB postings hardly safe places for children.
2
I know people who have come here legally and illegally. Many of the legal ones waited years, some often in refugee camps after they fled Somalia. Others are from South Africa, Uganda, and Morroco. The illegal ones came from Nicaragua, Honduras and Mexico. WE are tolerant of immigrants. WE do need secure borders. People crossing our southern porous border are from Asia as well as from Central and South America. The press misreports the facts. Detention centers are at or over capacity because Congress will not fund the money. We treat immigrants, legal and illegal, a lot better than the NYT reports. It is like this news site is a mouthpiece for the propaganda machine of the DNC. It is the primary reason this nation is divided. Add to that CNN, NPR and FoxNews, and this country is being pulled apart. Just report the facts and leave the emotionally filtered opinions out of it. Quit distorting the situation.
37
@ricocatx
Actually, 2/3 of the people who are in the US illegally overstayed visas, and most of those came on planes. Only 1/3 of undocumented people crossed a border illegally. This is one of the many reasons that Trump's policies do little to address the actual facts of immigration issues, while maximizing inhumanity.
It's a choice we are making as a country. We could be more humane, more effective, and spend less of taxpayer money. We are choosing not to. History will not treat us kindly.
9
Last month, 130,000 people were apprehended Crossing the border, what you say is not true. It might have been at one time, but no longer.
12
Maybe Melania or her parents should be asked to "go back" to the countries they came from? How about that, Mr. President?
5
Given the considerable yelling from Trumpists about how the Democrats have no plans and refuse to do anything about this “crisis,” I’d be interested to see a companion piece to this excellent article that goes through the history of the immigration reform bills from 2006 and 2013, as well as the smaller but still significant agreements drawn up in 2017 and 2018.
It’s my understanding that these were bipartisan in nature, or deals that Trump agreed to, which were then blown up by the same right-wing wacko-birds who’re now shouting that Cingress never does anything about immigration.
But I’d be interested to know the level of detail offered in this article.
And no, this is not a “crisis,” that we can barely handle. It’s a prob we can fix, and I’m tired of seeing right-wing wacko-birds insult my country like this.
6
@Robert
Trumpists? Seriously?
5
America has almost always been intolerant on immigration. Certainly, after the Irish Potato Famine, there was a major backlash when the US allowed Irish to immigrate. After the Civil War the US began allowing immigration from Europe, each group Italians Slaves, Russians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks, etc. were al met with stiff quotas and opposition. During the latter part of the 19th Century came the infamous Chinese Exclusion Act to target so called "yellow hordes" out of the US. This continued up to WWI.
These waves of immigrants fought the Civil War, Spanish American War, WWI and WWII. They built the America we take for granted. On the other hand, to this day there is prejudice fro Asians, Irish, southern and eastern European immigrants and their descendants. Less, overt than to African Americans and Hispanics.
There has always been a segment of the US population, which only believe that this country is for White, Protestant, northern Europeans. They keep being pushed to the fringe of society, but awaken a various times. The Civil War, Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese Internment, Jim Crow, etc. And, usually peer pressure, and our politicians, into the fringe; until now.
Since the election of President Obama, this fringe now only awaken, it has grown more powerful, more overt and more mainstream. Enough so, that the GOP, and the current president, have embraced this fringe, and made it acceptable to their base, and illegal immigrants are their current scapegoats.
10
@Nick Metrowsky
Well said! I do keep hoping we will learn from these shameful episodes in our history.
3
Th world is getting smaller. And we have become afraid of the movement of people who see countries like America as a solution to their financial/personal problems. And what do the Dems do? They offer all and any a free ride... open boarders... free health insurance... What next a Walmart gift card and housing vouchers? Trump has made deplorable choices in his quest to hold the line at the boarder but the Dems have made equally deplorable choices. And it all raises the question of what it means to be a citizen. And what responsibility we have to each other and the country. If the Dems are really interested in solving the immigration problem... put it out there... Right now they are only interested in using the tragedy politically... and if they read the pols they would know that they are on the wrong side of the issue and Trump is wiping the floor with them. WAKE UP DEMS... or it's Trump for 8.
30
@marrtyy
A large part of the problem in this debate is the hysteria and straw men. Democrats do not want "open boarders" [sic]. No Democrat has called for open borders. We want humane borders that comply with our own and international laws.
Since you asked for a solution, here is mine. Trying to catch people crossing illegally, or working illegally, is difficult, costly, and slow. If we truly wish stem illegal immigration, we need to address the economics of the situation: many employers in the US employ undocumented workers because it is cheaper to do so. If we stepped up enforcement against employers, and increased the fines until it was no longer cheaper, we would dry up demand while bringing in additional revenue.
4
@marrtyy
The correct word is Borders, and the correct reference is to Emergency Medical Care, not insurance coverage. I hope you don't vote.
Headline is incorrect: “How America got to .... “ . It should read: “How the USA got to ... “. The sooner we accept that the better.
3
I wish this article would address what progressives think is the solution to this problem, other than open borders. The fact remains that the vast majority of the so-called asylum seekers do not qualify for asylum under the law, which requires a fear of government persecution in their home countries. Obama himself recognized this by encouraging families who are fleeing poverty not to come. (That was back when Dems were actually rational on immigration.) So, progressives, you're going to allow tens of millions of refugees to come to "make their case" for asylum when you know most won't qualify, and then what do you do with them in the meantime? How are you to house and care for all of these families and their children, while they wait years for their asylum claim to be adjudicated? It's easy for progressives to complain about how heartless the system is, or to lament "the children" and the condition of the admittedly overcrowded detention centers, but they have no solutions.
424
@R.P. Great points. I’d also like to know how progressives suggest their plans to accommodate this large number of illegal immigrants would be paid for. Which current programs to help existing citizens should be cut? Would they be willing to pay higher taxes to pay for these additional costs? Would they be ok adding these children of illegal immigrants in their own children’s classroom?
163
@R.P. So what is the "conservative" solution and associated cost? The wall? Detention while asylum claims are adjudicated? Requiring asylum seekers to file their claims from a 3rd country prior to reaching our borders? I've not heard a coherent strategy (solution) from the "conservative" side.
78
@Dana Broach
The president has proposed several changes to the asylum system; meanwhile, democrats are promoting ways for those with final deportation notices -- that is, those who have exhausted all remedies -- to evade ICE.
71
In order for the GOP to maintain control, they need as few minority citizen voters as possible. They are swimming against the demographic tide though.
10
@Margaret Keating
More than 30% of latinos voted GOP in 2016, as did 10% of blacks.
Minorities tend to be full stop religious conservative Catholic or evangelical, whether African, latino or Asian. The GOP today already isn't white and will look different tomorrow, but it will prosper just on the basis of religion.
What many have is zero tolerance for ILLEGAL immigration. I also believe most people support and would even encourage LEGAL immigration. However, I think it unlikely we can get liberalized legal immigration without more fully controlling illegal immigration. There is a right way to immigrate and a wrong way. Know the difference.
16
@Thomas Smith
Actually, there are very few "right" ways to immigrate. I looked up the last immigration bill (the one by the "gang of 8") and I would not have qualified. (I am in my 30s, work in administration, have a master's degree, and have committed no criminal offenses).
Further, Trump administration is closing them up the legal ways to immigrate as fast as possible. They are clearly hostile toward legal migrants, based on deportations of military veterans and their families, and the de-naturalization processes they have been pioneering.
Illegal immigrants are a scapegoat. The Trump administration wants a white ethno-state, one where all others reside here at their pleasure.
1
@April. As I said, I favor, as I believe most do, that we should liberalize legal immigration. However, if you think that will happen in the absence of strict control of illegal immigration, then you may also be expecting snow next month in San Antonio.
1
Video of people running along the southern border and into the US is disturbing, if only because the world is so unstable and no one knows who or what could come in, in this free for all.
Immigration requires a major make over, independent of party affiliation and based on security, Not only for the country, but those seeking entrance. Population explosion and climate change will make it more and more pressing for people to immigrate to any place in the world that can take them. It’s a global issues and should be treated as such. The US can take a leadership role by 1j providing free contraception so that countries already bursting at the seams can recalibrate their needs. 2) address climate change. Droughts in Africa and Central America has forced agri communities to seek shelter elsewhere 3) financial aid to help struggling markets develop sustainable industries that can support local populations is key.
The so-called “Norther Triangle”is relatively small in size and population and could serve as a model to test new approaches and ideas. Tons of interesting papers are published all the time, so shortage of ideas is not an issue. What we need is the will. In its absence, it creates a gap for criminal opportunists like Trump or Victor Orban (Hungary) or Bolsonaro (Brazil), or Duterte (Philippines) and now even the UK’s Boris Johnson and many others across the world from exploiting and destroying what semblance of peace we have globally
.
11
The US has far from zero tolerance on immigration. I went through the application, interview and wait to get a visa. I happily worked in the US until my visa ran out, at which point I left the US.
31
@Aaydee
Your city of residence goes a long way toward explaining your ease with the immigration system. There are loads of Europeans residing here on expired visas and ICE isn't raiding them.
2
@April
"Senator Billy Lawless has acknowledged that “things are not looking good” for Fermoy man Keith Byrne who was arrested by ICE officials while on his way to work in Philadelphia last Wednesday."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/things-are-not-looking-good-for-cork-man-facing-deportation-from-us-936921.html
I am going to come out and say it. Trump is doing the right thing here by securing the borders. I am hearing crickets from the Dems about their strategy. Trump's newest approach to quelling the disorder on the border makes sense. If you did not apply for asylum in the first safe country you entered, prima facie, you are not a refugee but an economic migrant. This is completely in compliance with international norms.
44
@B,
For most Central American migrants, the first safe country they enter will be the U.S. Why would they apply for asylum in the equally unstable, unsafe countries before then?
@B
You say "economic migrant" likes it's a bad thing. I'm going to come right out and say it: The US needs migrants. Our birth rate has been declining for decades and is below replacement numbers. The largest generation in US history is at retirement age and beyond. We need an influx of young workers and taxpayers. I'd say, vet people, and if they aren't smuggling drugs or humans, let 'em in to build a better life. That's the promise of the US. I have no problem with them accessing social services while they get on their feet; it will cost less than detention centers and ICE raids.
2
@April We DONT need migrants. We have plenty of people living here. Jobs are running dry and will continue to do so as tech improves. Maybe if dems could focus on ways to help alleviate the struggling middle class, more millennials would start having babies. Most are putting that off b/c they CANT AFFORD it. They are drowning in student debt, rising housing markets and stagnant wages. Maybe, by focusing on helping AMERICANS, we could easily increase the # of workers and taxpayers, instead of continuing to ignore them in favor of ILLEGAL immigrants who bring 5 children a piece here with no means to provide for them.
3
Zero tolerance simply means enforcing the laws as they are written.
It makes you wonder when the people charged with writing our laws complain that enforcing the laws they have written is a horrible idea.
Our Congress members should be ashamed.
23
@Ken
There are never enough resources to prosecute 100% of crimes; we have to prioritize. Targeting families who just want to come here and work and pay taxes and just generally live the dream of America is like targeting people driving 2 miles over the speed limit. Police have more important things to do.
1
A Trump driven debacle of unfathomable proportions — massive chaos and rank incompetency on top of 40 years of American politicians of all stripes utterly failing to take credible action on desperately needed comprehensive American immigration reform.
To this add a DHS that appears to be a shambles.
6
Do not be surprised if behind a great many of these immigration crises sits the Russians, i.e., Putin. He has been cynically employing aggression-by-proxy for a decade.
Putin has effectively marshalled proxy armies of frightened and desperate people to move en mass and used misinformation to manipulate the peoples and leaders of where the desperate were going.
He cultivated upheaval in North Africa and the Middle East, driving millions of people into Europe and destabilizing the EU.
He has supported crime and used misinformation in South America to motivate millions of people to travel north to the US border.
And in both the EU and US he has manipulated both the populations and their leaders (though he didn't need to work all that hard to brainwash the leaders) to become fanatically afraid and nationalistic about the threats from these "others".
In Trump (and his sycophantic GOP) we are simply witnessing the final stages of Putin's putsch-by-proxy. Heaven help us all.
9
Too many angry comments below saying Democrats are not for open borders. Well, just what else would you call those who advocate for sanctuary cities, drivers licenses for illegals, free medical/education? Not to mention free legal advice telling illegals to cheat and claim asylum when it doesn't apply to them? Democrats are dead wrong on this issue but too happy being "morally superior" to realize it.
49
I believe the words you’re groping for are, “pragmatists,” and, “aware of our laws and treaties.”
5
@Sue
No matter how many social services we provided to people to help them get on their feet in a new country, it would cost far, far less than the $22,000 per month we are spending to incarcerate them.
Our policies make sense from neither an economic or a human-rights perspective. I will leave it to others to speculate as to why we have chosen to spend more money to be inhumane.
2
@Sue
Elizabeth Warren absolutely advocates for open borders, as do nearly all of the 23 Democratic Party candidates.
3
When Trump bellows out his "America First" rhetoric combined with xenophobia, isolationism, racist rants (yes, he is a racist, that is why the Klan's official newspaper endorsed him for president in 2016 and they still do)...
His delivery is awash with his claims that before him we were headed toward another "Great Depression" and without him we'll suffer economic disaster" taking economic insecurity and xenophobia and running all the way to the bank with it.
This is the same as what happened in our country from 1933 - 1941. Back then, there were a number of isolationists who didn't mind what what going on in Europe, and they did not want to help our allies. They chanted "America First" and it had the same racist overtones it has today.
Between 1933 - 1941 the same thing could be exploited after people experienced the Great Depression and WWI. Our immigration system back then did not have a coherent plan when it came to refugees seeking asylum, and people were scapegoated then too.
Some made it to this country, but the process was painstakingly slow - made that way on purpose. "America First" isolationists who sympathized with fascists in other countries hoped they'd give up waiting.
Does such a policy sound familiar?
The Pope has condemned Trump's policies. The "Children of the Holocaust" condemn this. My father who fought in WWII condemned this.
The "America First" isolationists were a disgrace to our country then, and they are a disgrace to our country now.
14
Because "catch and release" is unlawful
9
@hawk
No, it literally isn't. We release people on their own recognizance for minor crimes routinely.
Also, migrants are not game animals.
America is not at zero tolerance. Trump and his Republican sycophants are, and they will see what that brings them in 2020 when they stand for re-election. Americans are horrified and ashamed.
6
It's a mistake to see this all in terms of top-down choices and malfeasance. Trump is merely giving voice to what was out there already. Future historians will surely ask why establishmentarians from both parties ignored a growing native discontent for decades, and sociologists will surely draw cautionary rules describing the effects of under-regulated immigration, linguistic separatism, and unintended consequences of allowing the percentage of foreign-born residents to climb above a certain level.
12
Th liberal left conflates turn of the century [Ellis Island] immigration with illegal entry .. This needs to stop! And I'll be damned if I have to give these people free healthcare!
BTW- I am a moderate Democrat and I held my nose and voted for Hillary.
I'll vote for Trump in 2020 because he is the only one finally doing something!
A dumb idea is better than no idea!
42
@Aaron
Spending $750 a day to incarcerate people -- while gumming up the system to make sure we continue to do so for a long time -- while traumatizing their children -- makes no kind of economic sense either.
2
@Aaron
If you're going to keep referring to all of the people in this country who would condemn Trum's separation policies as the "liberal left" then I'm going to have to start calling Trump's fans the Klan Kooks. Okay? And if you're worrying what the Klan will think, they only disagree with the "Kook" part. The Klan endorsed President Obama in 2016, officially, and they still do.
And by the way, my fat her fought in WWII with the 101st Airborne, Yankee Infantry against the same xenophobic isolationist rage and scapegoating, so I'm in good company.
Trump? His best friends are Kim Jong Ung and Vladimir Putin, so when it comes to Trump being in good company...
... eh, not so much.
1
There are plenty of solutions. It can include walls, more facilities to handle migrants and assistance to countries to help stop the flow. But needs a unified solution. The problem is that the 2 sides are screaming at each other, and Trump throwing more oil into the fire because it benefits him to get re-elected. The GOP knows this, but is paralyzed by Trump and the Dems have no cohesive plan other than flailing their arms daily about Trump which may as well be paralysis.
Trump has a good chance of winning in 2020 because he has paralyzed everyone with his venom.
4
@Matt
Sigh. We don't say "open borders." Only Republicans say "open borders." We say "orderly, well-staffed, humane borders that follow our own and international law."
And I'm completely astounded at how many people are saying that we shouldn't "give them everything they want" when we could give them a hand up to get started in a new country for far less than the cost of incarcerating people for $22,000 a month.
2
Republican absolutism about approaching a zero immigrant status seems to, de facto, make the Democratic position look as though they want absolutely open borders. Despite a few loud outliers, that is not the case at all. I am a liberal to Progressive Democrat and that concept scares me and everyone I know of my political persuasion. Thomas Friedman suggested the symbolic solution is a high wall with a wide gate. I agree. After all the fear-mongering and scare tactics coming from Emperor Donald, isn't that what we have had historically that has worked for America when we let it?
7
@CP Did you watch the democratic debates?
5
@thewriterstuff, yes, and there were more than I couple of moments where I was less than thrilled. But Republicans in today's America scare me more on a good day than Democrats on a bad one. And don't worry - even if their proponents are elected, the most "radical" ideas will never be enacted.
1
I am less certain that the change brings the USA closer to Europe than makes the USA more draconian ab absurdum. Consider when highly-qualified Canadians come to work in Europe due to long-standing inflexible spousal work rights refusals in the USA. Can you believe that? I didn’t at first.
I’ve gotten to experience immigration processes in two countries in Europe so far. They are restrictive, but they are fairer than the USA ever was even before this president.
Cordially,
American Émigré
16
@Matt Proud The American immigration system heavily favors families rather than skilled workers. And yes, many spouses of legal immigrants in the US (e.g. H4, F2 visa holders for example) cannot work. It's quite harsh.
7
@Matt Proud
The only reason the US appears to less fair is because of the huge backlog. Also, the yearly quota system is significantly smaller than the demand.
How many people do you think meet the qualifications to immigrate to Switzerland, spouse or not?
You have to know at least one of the three official languages, have considerable work experience in your field and at least a bachelor's degree to be able to get a good job above the locals.
Otherwise you're relegated to basically being a minimum wage grunt, like many Albanians who reside in Switzerland can tell you.
15
Oh yeah, like it's not all grandstanding for the president's MAGA base. I'll believe Trump & the GOP really care about illegal immigration, and the undocumented taking jobs away from Americans, when the federal government sends platoons of ICE agents into the businesses of ultra-wealthy Republican donors. You know, like the huge multi-hotel complex in Las Vegas owned by mega-donor Sheldon Adelson, where all you hear amongst the uniformed employees is Spanish.
10
Why is Stephen Miller, at 33 years old and unelected, pulling the puppet strings behind the curtain?
Why is there not outrage that this man's xenophobic, cruel ideas are driving the agenda of an entire country? Trump is by no means innocent - indeed, his heart is coal black on the subject of race - but he is also the dupe, the putty, the vessel, the all-too-willing puppet turned monster in Miller's schemes.
Miller must go.
19
Pace the obsessive image this article paints, it's thanks to the President's laser-focus on border security that has moved the discussion of border security beyond the obfuscations of various lobby groups with stakes in the pie and the traditional Washington bureaucrat's congenital inability to think outside the box to bring us to what Americans beyond I-495 have long believed: zero tolerance for illegals crashing our border. Period. Full stop. Nobody has "tolerance" for breakers and enterers: you break in, your thrown into jail. Same for the borders of our national home.
24
The entire problem with the Southern border is due to Trump’s foolishness. When any rational person confronts any problem one must appreciate what is the problem. If one fails to do that, failure is likely. Trump cannot appreciate the problem and he trusts nobody to enlighten him.
He has asserted that immigration was a problem for campaign purposes, based upon popular opinions among his supporters. But the problem that emerged proved to be different. There are international agreements which supersede domestic laws to be considered. There are extraordinary pressures forcing greatly increased emigration from Central American countries. The Wall was a campaign promise but a wall was no relevant solution. But the Wall was a campaign promise.
Trump refused to adapt his efforts to the problem that presented itself. He just ordered people stop it as he ordered despite the fact that they actually could not do as he had demanded that they do. He caused a problem to become overwhelming. He did not consider the problem beyond what conformed with his campaign promises. It’s like he thought it was like a fly that he could just swat away.
4
Fascinating and horrifying and terrifying. The headline could as also read "How America Became a Kakistocracy"
5
I continue to be amazed at the capacity the Dems have for ignoring large problems going on here, and the abuse they heap on the native born.
Don't Dems read anything? Such as this from a principal in Oklahoma: his school was built for a thousand students, but this fall, an extra 1,000 arrived, most of them did not speak any English; some spoke indigenous languages. Who is supposed to pay for this? The great middle class, of course.
The Dems also ignore the homeless problem; One of their solutions is to allow camping in city parks.
Instead of addressing any of this, they charge on with their customary santa claus routine. It looks like political insanity, it really does.
51
The President is a Republican with high approval ratings among Republicans. The Senate is controlled by Republicans. Which Dems? Are you aping Trump’s false representations of who is to blame when he stubs his toe in the dark?
6
@Casual Observer Ah, Los Angeles. A prime example of Dem governance; thousands living on the street, typhus & typhoid showing up... what's next, ebola?
7
Actually, it’s Republicans who think that they can address social problems by ignoring them. Those homeless people come from all over this country and most of them are without family or communities willing to help them get right with their lives.
1
And why is article title missing the English word illegal?
Are you suggesting US policy is now zero legal immigration?
Would that not in itself be illegal since we operate under a current immigration law and its provisions?
33
This is from a Homeland Security website: "Foreign citizens wishing to immigrate and live permanently in the U.S. must comply with U.S. visa immigration laws, and specific procedures to apply for visas."
This is the solution. Just don't let anyone get in unless they obey all the rules and we decide to invite them.
33
I abhor Trump and all he stands for but the head line here is misleading. Americans support immigration. The flash point is “illegal” immigration. I realize the term “illegal” is controversial but when an individual overstays or violates their visa (Did Melania do that), that’s illegal. When an individual illegally enters the country, that’s illegal. When an individual asks for asylum that isn’t illegal.
No one regardless of how or why that have come to the USA should be detained in the type of facilities that now exist. We know why these facilities are in existence: the for profit prison industry wanted more and voila detention facilities blossomed!
More money for detention in putrid and inhuman conditions but none for immigration judges. What is happening in our Country is inhumane and unconstitutional and the President is responsible. Impeachment is the appropriate remedy.
111
@Justice Holmes
the problem is that we all benefit from undocumented workers in the U.S.; they pick the strawberries, they clean the houses, they work in factories ... and thus keep the prices lower.
8
@xyz There is a mechanism to bring in agricultural workers - the H-2A visa.
13
@Justice Holmes
Correct.
It is not illegal to seek asylum. You never know. If Trump continues to get America into debt, dismantle the American judicial system as he is doing, start a civil war in order to avoid joining his buddies Manafort and Epstein in jail, Americans may need to flee to Canada to avoid the chaos and seek asylum. History has a way of delivering reversals like that. Japan was a mess after WW2 then became a booming economic power; so Americans may seek refuge in Mexico. More likely Americans would flee to Montreal and God forbid have to learn French. That would be an affront to some people's sense of reality. But at least Americans would get good health care. I am sure that in that scenario, the Canadians would not deny it to the new asylum seekers. Americans are not immune to becoming asylum seekers themselves. Who would have thought it could slide so quickly towards Mussolini style, racially defined fascism as it has since President Baby Blimp Mar a Lago party animal was thrust into power with minus 3 million votes with the assistance of Russia?
Who knew? Be best and try not to elect groping creeps. Its kind of embarrassing.
11
The century-old welcoming generosity of the West is being outrun by the population explosion in many developing countries, yet nobody wants to broach the subject.
29
Like other administrations that preceded this one, the policy is zero tolerance on illegal immigration. The headline here is misleading. The government's position hasn't changed. What has changed is the vitriol directed at the administration.
20
"Zero tolerance" isn't the right way to describe immigration policy. It is more "orderly processing" at least in intent. But if you want an answer to your question, American got there the same way Israel did: risk of sovereignty; threat of social chaos; economic destabilization; and perhaps especially, a logic directed at immigrant behavior. That is, immigration is an abandonment of indigenous responsibility. An "immigrant" is leaving behind a failed state when they should stay anchored and rebuild, develop and lead it, rather than take the (relatively) easy way out, and drop on the doorstep of Hotel America (or Israel, or Sweden etc).
82
@Matt Andersson If the Scots after the highland clearances and the Irish during the potato famine took your advice, America would look very different today.
I'd like to know how exactly people are supposed to stay and rebuild in the face of such disasters.
17
Disaster is the operative word. When advocacy groups and clever lawyers started pushing the limits of refugee status to include victims of domestic violence or economic hardship, it undermined the intent of the law and helped contribute to the chaos we are now facing.
12
@Matt Andersson - So what are you doing here in the U.S? Why didn't you or your parents or your grandparents or whichever generation it was stay in the country where they were born? Why did they "abandon their indigenous responsibility"? No country is perfect--surely they could have "remained anchored" and contributed to making whatever country it was better than it was.
14
Has anyone stopped to ask themselves what will happen to the economy when these industries are deprived of their steady stream of cheap labor? Will they absorb that added cost themselves or will they pass it on to consumers? I think we all know the answer to that. The reality is that, yes, our economy depends to some (maybe large) degree on cheap immigrant labor.
It's also true that there are people seeking asylum who are in genuine need and there are those who see an opportunity. There are many truths in this situation--it's a very gray area.
It's a complex issue. It needs attention. But it's not getting the focused and intelligent attention it needs because of knee-jerk emotional histrionics on both sides of the issue and the tendency to view every single aspect in stark black and white. The truth is that it's complex, it's gray, it requires us to all work together and come up with common sense solutions. But we've all lost our heads.
67
@Bronwyn Sutherland, yours is a reasoned response although I question your equalizing fault to both sides. The majority of the blame as I see it sits squarely upon the Republicans. Despite a few extremists making blatantly offensive noises from the fringes of both parties, or in many cases beyond them, I see the Republicans as the instigators of immigrant paranoia and the Democrats reacting.
In my opinion, Democrats need to stop being reactive and be proactive, finding a way to get in front of this issue and hammer down the specious Republican attacks. It won't be easy, but it must be done if we are to move forward and get out of this bilious pool of hatred in which Trump and his followers thrive.
7
@Bronwyn Sutherland
The price of goods may go up because US Labor is higher. This also means that one's own wage will go up because of the tighter labor market and hence one can afford higher prices. It means the need to subsidize the poor will go down as they receive a wage high enough to live on. It means no more homeless encampments composed of people driven into the dirt by the low wages caused by massive immigration. it means that our own college educated tech graduates will have jobs in tech. That hoax of a shortage will be put out to pasture. Health care provided by one's employer is part of one's wages. it means more people with health care. All of these things are great for a country, but not great for the 1% who like to see the $500B annual transfer upwards as their yearly dividend for driving down wages.
The traditional D was against immigration because a tight labor market meant higher wages. This all changed with Bill Clinton and his New Democrats. Since the Ds were always underfunded at election time he showed them the new way. Sell out your constituents for money but give the voters a crumb the Rs won't...an ever decreasing crumb. As Carville cynically remarked, "Where else are they (the D voters) going to go." Clinton brought us NAFTA, China, removing Wall Street safeguards and massive immigration to drive down wages plus the removal of welfare to really make people suffer. I'm an FDR Democrat and I find Pelosi, Schumer and co. disgusting.
18
@Bronwyn Sutherland
"Has anyone stopped to ask themselves what will happen to the economy when these industries are deprived of their steady stream of cheap labor?"
Yeah, wages will go up as the supply of labor goes down. How horrifying.
18
American values have always included accepting immigrants. However, what is happening now is that huge numbers of people who have no right of asylum are taking advantage of our liberal policies at the border to obtain entry into the country on that basis. You can't just come here because you live in a violent place. That's particularly true when you traverse 2 other countries on your way here.
The solution is more judges and courts, not a wall. The instant that these cases get adjudicated promptly the flow will diminish. If you keep building detention centers (even if you keep kids with their putative parents) you just encourage even more people to come here and try their luck at the border.
87
@Ross Salinger
American values have NOT always accepted immigrants. Collidge put a moratorium on it so that US citizens would not suffer a loss of jobs and declining wages because of it. That policy stayed in effect from Coolidge through Eisenhower. During WW2 FDR allowed immigration as a result of the war time ldomestic labor shortage. Eisenhower removed illegal immigrants. The actions of these Presidents and others is what built up America's middle class. The 1% wanted the wealth of the middle class so they bribed politicians to increase immigration to drive wages down and into their pockets. Right now we are seeing the 1% ruling America...destroying it to enrich themselves.
15
@Ross Salinger
The solution also might include considering the prices of coffee and other commodities and their relationship to migration from Central America.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/06/11/falling-coffee-prices-drive-guatemalan-migration-united-states/?utm_term=.d0102ae9bbf6
Also, what was the thinking when funding to the Central American countries was cut by the Trump Administration?
6
@Daniel F. Solomon
Immigration to the USA is not a right for people in other countries to escape or ameliorate economic conditions in their countries.
The USA should make and enforce immigration laws and policies to meet the needs of the USA -- as determined by the American people, through their representatives in Congress -- not as determined by individual Americans or advocacy groups or American businesses or employers.
4
I was very surprised that the democratic candidates did not discuss the actual solution to the current immigration crisis during the recent debates. "Comprehensive immigration reform" controls the borders, treats those applying for immigration humanely and fairly and establishes a system of immigration that meets our national needs. Even the Trump cult would agree with many elements of the program.
6
The ironic part of all this is that waves of Americans have been heading north into Canada ever since the Revolutionary War ( they were called "United Empire Loyalists"). And then of course there was the Underground Railroad. Other groups headed north who couldn't abide the militarism of the U.S. including war resisters who entered during the Viet Nam era. Did they all enter "legally"? Probably not, but nevertheless they went on to become productive and very grateful citizens of Canada.
9
@Daryl, Actually, emigration to Canada would be one of the ways to deal with it. with climate change coming upon us faster than even predicted, there will be winner countries and loser countries. The majority of people in Canada now live close to the border. But new agricultural lands will be opening up as one moves further North to follow the warming climate. Ditto for Russia and China.
4
@Daryl
During the Revolution, no one fled to ‘Canada.’
They merely relocated to another part of the mighty British Empire that did not happen to be in open rebellion.
If you’re interested, read about the Loyalists who manned the prison barges in NY Harbor. Upwards of 10,000 American patriots died of starvation, disease, exposure, and mistreatment of the hands of those Loyalists. Revenge from an aggrieved population was one reason they had to leave the nascent US.
5
Good article about how immigration policy has fallen into the hands of fanatics and sadists.
Separation of children from their families is a violation of human rights. The only remedy in the absence of moral leadership is law. Congress needs to govern DHS. For example, the House and the Senate have bills pending that would prevent separating children with few exceptions, called the Keep Families Together Act.
We also need to outlaw deporting people who have been here for a lifetime. It is cruel and unusual punishment to do otherwise. One young man is going on his third tour of duty as a US soldier but afraid his mother might be deported while he's gone. His mother has been in the US for 34 years.
Democrats don't want open borders, we want humane enforcement of those laws. We want to detain people and break up families only when necessary. We want a guest worker program. We need immigration reform but as long as Stephen Miller calls the shots and Republicans control the Senate who are afraid of Trump it will never happen.
27
@Sherry I'm afraid I can't agree with you re: what Dems want.
For undocumented persons here illegally:
Dem party is campaigning on
-No ICE
-Free health care
-Drivers Licenses
-Sanctuary Cities
-Free education
-No Detention
How do these things square with your last para?
16
@Sherry
So you don't want open borders you just don't want to deport anyone?
Americans who are arrested and/or convicted are separated from their children every week in every state of the union. In and of itself that is not a violation of human rights. It's a consequence of their actions.
11
Zero tolerance on illegal immigration. The fact support a finding that legal immigration is actually increasing. Do your homework.
25
That zero tolerance must include jail for every employer who hires an illegal. But the Republicans are opposed to making mandatory the E-verify computer program that quickly tells an employer whether a job applicant is legal or not. No jobs, no illegals. The whole uproar is about getting re-elected not about stopping illegals.
2
Bus passes back to where they came most humane solution, no cages, no waiting, no separation.
Given the numbers that want out of their home countries south of our borders, things could be much worse, and we, in fact, would need to have the US Army on the border as they are in South Korea or Germany. Could happen yet.
15
@Alice's Restaurant
That really didn't work well for the German refugees seeking asylum in our country from 1933-1941, did it.
3
If you don’t mind, I think I’ll stick with our laws, like the ones that guarantee refugee applicants the right to a hearing and decent treatment while they’re waiting, or the ones that prohibit such deployment of the military.
I’d also recommend a policy if reading this excellent article, which documents the ways that the caging came out of a combo of total incompetence and deliberate cruelty meant to deter.
4
@Robert
I believe I used the word "humane". The law, a means to fraud, regarding same is about Congress and its inability to deal with the fact that its borders are being overrun with totally inadequate resources to deal with it.
As for the cry of "cruelty"-- a bit over the top. Try, for example, what the Iranian clerics do to those who cross their borders illegally.
Nonetheless, good thing we're not north of Libya, right?
3
Republicans are fixated on Hispanics becoming the majority ethnic group in this country over the next 25 years. They are obsessed with the changing culture, and they are determined to put it off as long as possible. Don't know if you noticed but the Trump Administration has severely cut back on legal immigration from the southern countries. This is what Steve Bannon talked about even before Trump took office.
10
The laws themselve are vile, criminalizing immigration and claiming refugee status, just because they're made into laws, as Julian Castro pointed out, is immoral, nativist reactionary and ultimately, human rights crimes. This, on top of the US role in destabilizing the countries where many are fleeing from.
9
I love "gun-toting" law enforcement officials. Well, of course they are. Law enforcement does carry guns usually in our universe. Another sad attempt to demonize police officers doing their jobs.
21
@MJWyeah..and when they have chat groups saying things like “great day for a chokehold”....THOSE are for sure the guys that we want toting guns.
4
The NYT and the Democrats are conflating all immigration with illegal immigration, because it broadens the outrage.
In fact, the administration isn't against legal immigration at all. All of the administrations actions on legal immigration are designed to remove fraud and increase jobs for US citizens. As an example, H1B fraud is a well-known problem in the tech industry, and the restrictions on H1Bs can only be good for the US. The policy of preferring immigrants with skills vs elderly family members is designed to strengthen the American workforce.
The conflating of illegal and legal immigration just further marginalizes the NYT and the other news outlets because of the obvious bias it shows.
42
@Mannyv Not quite - even legal immigrants are suffering with this administration's crack down on immigration. I know multiple people on extraordinary ability visas who have lived in this country for years and had their request for permanent residency denied for no apparent reason.
6
@Mannyv
Two sides of the coin.
The media, bougie radlibs and progressives are conflating legal and illegal immigration. By and large they want open borders.
The Trump administration is using cruel and inhumane treatment of migrants in order to show division and discord, fire up its base, and provoke their adversaries into taking outrageous and ridiculous positions.
Poll after poll demonstrates the American people want sound, humane border policies that welcome legal immigrants and limit illegal immigration.
2
Democrats missed an opportunity to endorse the President s position. Democratic candidates tripped over each other in their promises to promote open borders and free healthcare to illegals. Never mind that Americans will have to foot the bill, and find their lives made more difficult regarding their own healthcare, education and higher rents, and the scarcity of them.
On top of that they call Americans racist if they object to prioritizing illegals over them. They want YOU to pay for the well-being of illegals. They want YOU to follow the laws, while giving a pass to illegals who had their day in Court. They want YOU to have your paycheck reduced or to have no more paycheck so illegals can work (if they work at all) for less money. They want YOU to send your children to schools that are overwhelmed by the children of illegals. They want YOU to listen to messages that says press 2 for Spanish. They want YOU to drive and take the risk that illegals have no car insurance at all. They want YOU, the poor to wait longer in subsidized housing, as illegals live there. they want YOU to pay for college, as illegals get it for free.
You wonder why Trump will be re elected ? I thought not.
31
@Danielle Davidson
Americans are already footing the bill for the health care costs of migrants that are not here legally. They use the emergency rooms when they are ill, and hospitals stays when they have a serious illness. Do you realize it is cheaper to keep a person healthy than to pay for emergency care and hospital stays? If children get their immunizations as they should, they will stay healthier.
I am not saying I am for giving everyone free health care, I am merely pointing out the facts. The taxpayers are already paying the costs for these migrants’ health care.
5
@Danielle Davidson: "Racist" is a good label in that Trump and the Republicans are not making any noise about the vast numbers of illegals who violate their visitor visas. But then again they are almost all well educated whites or asians. Trump and the Republican motto seems to be "if they are white, its alright but if they are brown hunt them down."
4
@Lyndsey, they should not be. Anyone illegally here presenting themselves for healthcare should be treated and then gently but firmly deported.
9
Born: 1962, La Habana, Cuba
Immigrated: 1965 fleeing Castro's communism.
Latino Refugee: 2019
Could not be more grateful to the U.S. for taking my family in and saving us from repression and poverty.
Dear President Trump, if you'd care to call me a socialist and tell me to go back to my country, come say it to my face.
17
@Lou Torres, Cuba was an exception. Anyone who set foot on US soil was immediately accepted here (even prisoners who Castro set free from his jails). We cannot do that for everyone anymore.
7
It is illegal immigration....not immigration. We have quotas for the number of refugees and for the number of immigrants allowed each year. We need to follow those quotas because at this point we cannot financially support the huge numbers flooding the borders. That’s not racism....that is being fiscally responsible. Heck, we can’t even find the funds to fix our infrastructure or our schools, let alone the (medical, education, language, housing) supplemental programs needed to support all the people flooding the border. We just need to follow existing quotas and stop allowing people to cross......that’s all. That’s not racist, that’s common sense.
31
@Donna
Tax cuts for 40 yrs won't pay for any infrastructure, school or hospital........legislators in AZ self deal Charters legislation at the Public schools expense. Keep cutting taxes and say you'll have no tax money for ....anything.
5
Just the name "Homeland Security" reeks of zero tolerance. The word "homeland" echos the attitudes of the Nazi fatherland, or the Soviet era communist motherland. The word homeland is repugnant, and has no place in American society. I have zero tolerance for the word, and so should every freedom loving American. Let's start by getting rid of the inflammatory, parochial, jingoistic word, "homeland". It's an embarrassment to modern America. The Earth is humanity's home.
21
@lf Superb! A++ for nailing such an important component of how we have become that which so many of us loath.
7
@jaco
Relax! I'm only referring to freedom loving Americans. I guess Abraham Lincoln did as much as he could :-)
4
@jaco But you are ok with Trump telling you not to believe what you see and hear...believe what he tells you?
2
The story omits the most fundamental reason we have reached this point: 2-1/2 years ago, 60 million Americans decided that a racist belonged in the White House. How did America lose its humanity? That is the the real question.
20
@Ockham9 The Trump administration has deported fewer illegal immigrants in any one year than his predecessor. Congress has abdicated it's responsibilities over the past 30 years to the Executive Branch of government.
6
@chefguy. . In 2013, the so-called ‘gang of 8’ (4 Republicans, 4 Democrats) produced a bill, The Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013 (S. 744) that passed the Senate with bipartisan support and a vote of 68-32. Speaker John Boehner refused to take it up in the House, even though it would have done many of the things that Trump wants (like establish a points-based system for immigration). And as this article points out, Stephen Miller and his immigration restrictionist colleagues at Breitbart were behind the effort to scuttle the deal, which, if passed by the House, would have been signed by Obama. So who exactly in Congress has abdicated responsibilities?
1
@Ockham9. Point 1, this has been going on much longer than the past 2.5 years and Obama could easily have slowed deportations regardless of the 2013 bill; Point 2, which you seem to have corroborated, Congress has been negligent and as I pointed out, this has taken place over decades of ceding more and more power to the executive branch.
1
Come on.
You know this headline should say Illegal Immigration not just “Immigration”
25
De facto open borders (decriminalizing borders and no deportation of noncriminals) as supported by all the Democratic candidates and The Squad will effectively destroy our country as we know it.
There are over a billion economic migrants around the world eager to come to the US. And we are going to give them comprehensive health care too when we can barely support our own citizens? This is the single most critical issue making a whole lot of Americans hesitant to vote for the Democrats in 2020. We may all despise Trump but we also understand the real world consequences of the current Democratic platform on illegal immigration. None of us want to live in an overpopulated third world country with nearly a billion people all vying for their handouts based on their narrow identity politics (reparations, etc).
And please stop the Orwellian tactic of conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration. Even Republicans largely support legal immigration.
49
Would you mind discussing the actual article rather than chanting the typical jazz, please?
Thank you.
9
@Robert. I did discuss the actual article. Don't conflate illegal immigration with legal immigration. It's Orwellian. And de facto open borders for illegal immigration will be the end of this country. And in the meantime, do you have any solution other than more open borders?
15
@Jonathan really, largely? Must be talking to different GOPers than you are.
I mean you guys don't even want to take care of the 9/11 responders but sure don't mind corporate welfare.
7
This is what they meant when they said their goal is deconstructing the administrative state. A government full of acting heads and no one accountable.
7
@Ed
Don’t kid yourself, Ed.
Trump, the attention deficit bully, is responsible. And corrupt as they come.
2
@Ed
Trump is lucky to have 'Acting Heads'; no experienced competent Administrators want to be near this guy and his ever changing feckless Cabinet.
Illegal immigration needs to be treated as a disease with no miracle cure and more like a chronic condition to be managed. But Trump just wants to make his base believe it can be cured and he has the drug. In reality he neither wants to cure nor properly manage the disease, because keeping the patient uncomfortable works to his political advantage.
5
As a Democrat who would like to see Trump defeated in the next election...I wish ANY of our current candidates would read the top comments on recent immigration themed articles in the NYT. There are plenty of us who would like to see a (humane) immigration policy that is actually enforced. This open border situation is not sustainable and I fear Trump could carry the election in this issue alone.
54
No Democrat running for the presidency has suggested “open borders” that’s a Conservative meme and lie that’s being spread like wild fire.
14
@Mari, the problem is that none of the Democrats running have suggested any form of immigration control enforcement they actually do support. Being against all existing attempts to enforce the law AND wanting to extend even more benefits to those who are breaking the law does make tend to imply support for open borders.
22
@Mari
That's definitely not true, they all support de facto open borders.
Klobuchar walked it back a little but she's the only one as far as I know.
15
The people who brought us to this point are simply traitors to American tradition and to the core historic values of the nation. The disgrace and moral decline that the Trump regime and its criminal flunkies have brought upon our nation should be fought and opposed with the energy we would bring to ending a rampant plague. That is what the Republican Party and "conservatism" have become--no longer just a criminal enterprise (which they have been for decades) but now a disease that threatens to destroy our country.
18
@Hugh You are wrong. The United States is a sovereign country that has the right to enforce its borders and immigration laws. It cannot be held hostage to uncontrolled illegal immigration at the expense of the taxpayer. What is criminal is breaking the laws of a sovereign country.
22
@Eugene
Agreed, the people who praise the european countries and want to add all sorts of socialist programs in the usa need to do some reading because these same european countries do not have open borders, do not have birthright citizenship, and are also trying to enforce first country asylum policies.
People don't realize that all these programs are legal.
and in Germany where merkel was a great leader, she failed her country by letting in the syrian refugees without adequate screening and they are paying for it now.
Also England which is the most melting pot country like the usa due to letting everyone in as they felt guilty for past colonialism is an example of how guilt fails and we should not let in the whole of sounth america for some alleged past misdeeds. The NHS system is falling apart and this is information from the Guardian not fox news. There are parts of London where woman encounter total harrassment from muslim men and nothing is done about it.
And now this is mentioned as happening in the midwest where there are large concentrations of somalians.
4
@Hugh, My heart agrees with you. But my brain tells me that we need a realistic, humane plan. Open borders does not cut it. And I was a liberal and progressive Democrat long before most of these on this Board.
5
Why do we never hear positive stories about “ documented immigrants” who followed our laws, sometimes waiting years before being granted permission to immigrate, studied English and learned about citizenship from the media/democrats? Is it because they will work hard and become successful taxpayers who then vote conservatively perhaps?
53
They’re lying low these days. It has something to do with the threats to deport Muslims and the howling at the parents of dead combat vets and the shootings and the screamings about Taking Our Jobs, not to mention the assorted garbage that some members of Congress have had to put up with.
And does the chant “Send her back!” ring any bells?
9
There are plenty of those stories, and there are also plenty of UN-documented immigrants who are law abiding, hard working people. The way our immigration system is today, is not fair to the uneducated, poor, brown people coming up from South America. Also, how about undocumented immigrants from Eastern Europe especially the Russians, who have created their own Mafia?! How come they are not being demonized?
7
@Mari How can undocumented immigrants be law abiding? Their very presence on US soil is unlawful.
11
While Trump has a penchant for racism actual policy (on anything) is not front of mind for this President. He happily indulges Stephen Miller (and for a time, Bannon) and exults in the byproducts at his revivals and rallies - the thing that matters most.
6
If you are over 80, you will remember this type of information redolent of horrifying news reaching us about "outsiders" and their treatment in European Axis countries.
What have we become, and who in other countries are our current allies?
Somehow this has to stop. I see only one way. It’s called a presidential election. We'd better hope those of us who let our better instincts rule our feelings are in the majority in November 2020.
14
@Joan In California, I agree but we need our Democratic candidates to present their plans.
2
I would bet that everybody who is opposed to Trump's zero tolerance policy on people entering this country lock their doors to their homes, to prevent people from illegally entering their homes.
The main driver for the immigration problem is over population. There are too many people on this planet. But nobody talks about that any longer. And over population is also one of the main drivers of climate change, which also partially explains the problem of immigration.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, has given a solution to this problem. It has been a problem for years and for several administrations, and still nobody has a solution. (exception: the idea of open borders, which is foolish beyond comprehension).
Criticize Trump all you want. But give a solution too. And not just some type of vague pie-in-the sky one. The lack of a solution isn't due to a lack of decency--even the most decent man on the planet (Obama) couldn't come up with a solution.
38
The family separation stings the most. This is unnecessary cruelty. Cruelty for the sake of cruelty.
15
Immigration in the US is and always will be a problem neither party particularly wants to fix, much like the abortion football. Once abortion is illegal in all 50 states it goes away as a political football and no red meat for their bases. The same holds true of immigration. If the immigration system were fixed to satisfy the vast majority of the population guess what? No politician could subsequently use it as red meat to fire up their base.
We've reached the point where neither party has an invested interest in actually fixing any problems. They'll always be in need of one bugaboo or another to garner votes.
8
I am an immigrant and now a naturalized citizen. I came here legally, followed the rules, paid income taxes, and waited my turn for citizenship. Asylum protection cannot be expanded to cover anyone facing social or economic hardship at home, unless we want to open the border to hundreds of millions, perhaps several billion, people on this planet who face such hardship. It's a genuine shame there are so many people across the globe who face severe poverty and oppression , but the answer can't be to let them all live and work in the U.S.
There is great and understandable resentment among the American public against so-called progressives who equates law enforcement with racism and xenophobia. Trump knows this and uses it to great advantage. Of course there is room for improvement in our immigration laws and policies. But that's not a good reason to turn a blind eye to widespread violations of our existing laws. It has never been a defense to criminality to say, "but the law is unfair and ought to be changed!" Then change it.
51
However, American farmers have for centuries used cheap immigrant labor to harvest their crops! And the government has looked the other way! Pure hypocrisy!
4
@Kevin The crisis at the border right now is caused by asylum applications. That is as legal as it gets. The rejection rate for those applications used to be about 80% - but is actually declining under a Trump. Speeding the asylum process up would have been the consequence. But the current administration has sent military troops instead of lawyers and judges. That does not address the issue at all and therefore the whole process has slowed down substantially. Actual illegal immigration did not change under the current administration at all. Throwing asylum applicants together with illegal immigrants in basically every public statement of any of the members of the Trump administration is nothing but distraction from the fact that they fail to address the issue.
4
@Mari we need a temporary worker program for agricultural workers as we have and have had at times. Farmers are forced to use illegal workers because the immigration system is broken and neither party really wants to fix it.
1
The comments section here is all the democratic strategists need to understand that the immigration policies supported by every presidential candidate are going to guarantee Trump another 4 years...
40
@JAngeles ....unless they are starting to talk about numbers at the border and asylum rejection rates and deportations - because they are actually worse under Trump compared to Obama. There is a huge gap between the talking, the cruelties of family separation etc. and actual progress at the border. Facts are not so good for the President - especially when it comes to the border issue.
5
Yes, but you fail us on the history of Central America and the the role of the US in making a mess of it. This administration cuts funding to help exasperate the situation taking it from bad to worse. And you jump into his planned narrative to look like he is helping the situation! And readers succumb to this nonsense of gas lighting politics and political theater. When all is said and done the problem in Central America is worse. The only thing that changed is the Donald's self-image - until we realize the deception and misdirection of this con man. It is time for real solutions to Central America's crisis and our years of cheap bananas, coffee and fruits as the people there have suffered genocide, chaos and terror. This excuse for a president is not one of them. We will need to elect leaders of real character to do it.
13
@1blueheron
Agreed. But the other issue not being discussed much is that a) a big part of the sanctuary problem is drug gangs & money in those countries, and b) most of the drugs, especially the high-profit drugs, are sold to Americans.
I'll say it again: Every time Americans use drugs from central America, they are funding gangs, murders, people trying to save their families; thus asylum seekers at our border.
As was said in the Pogo comic strip years ago; "We have met the enemy, and it is us."
6
@Mark Miller Yes. And this is the ugly economy that evolved in Central America - as in the troubled areas of our own nation - because we fail to address the economic issues of social justice.
2
@Mark Miller, I agree. But if all illegal drugs entering the U.S. were to stop tomorrow, there would be plenty of factories being set up here to manufacture illegal synthetic drugs like fentanyl. The question I would like answered is why so many of our citizens are using these drugs. This is a story in itself.
3
Serious? Here's a break down.
Obama Administration curbed the use of private prison corporations.
2015 GEO Group CEO donations:
$1 million to various Trump campaign orgs
$ 2+ million to Republican House races along the Southern Border
2016 Trump signs in his no tolerance policy. Instead of catch and return his DOJ implements "undefined" periods of incarceration at a cost of $800 a day per person.
GEO Group awarded $77 million in contracts across Red States.
Anymore questions?
12
The issue is much deeper than Trump. DHS was a response to 9/11 and created the natural outlet for those here in America to deal with the "near enemy" by looking for anyone who might present a clear-and-present-danger to Americans. Like all human experiences with the "near enemy" he stopped being the actual enemy and morphed into the other that we always hated. So we started calling the police when a black person got into the public pool or somebody wasn't speaking English.
DHS did identify various "White Nationalist" organizations as threats early on but Congress and public pressure ended that assessment.
The southern border became the obvious flash-point when a lot of white Americans found themselves in foreclosure thanks to the mortgage crisis/scam. Jobs vanished, so we had to blame somebody else. On top of that drug addiction in the white suburbs started killing white kids and that only fueled the fire over border crossings. Enter Trump down the escalator and the focus of all our problems became the southern border.
Americans spend over $10-Billion annually on illegal drugs, funding the cartels. Americans bought into the house-flipping idea that was a big part of the mortgage scam.
Finally, white American men commit more murders daily than any other group. But, let's blame the immigrants - it is so much easier to blame them than fix our real problems as White Nationalism flourishes with simplistic solutions to our problems - get rid of all the non-whites.
15
It is hard to maintain a nation if it cannot control it’s borders.
37
@JDK And it's hard to maintain your belief in this country as a humanitarian, caring country if we treat these immigrants in such a grossly indecent manner.
6
Actually, we have the technology to control our borders, but Trump is giving his friends in the private prison business millions of our tax payer money! And how about undocumented immigrants from Eastern Europe? Russian and others who have a huge organized crime business going?!
7
I have this notion every once in a while that it would be interesting to see that giant super-volcano in Yellowstone blow, spewing rocks and ash all over those red states in the Midwest and South, making them inhospitable. Suddenly, all those people would become refugees. (Obviously, the notion doesn’t last too long. I live in one of those red states.)
For the life of me, I can only imagine how horrifying that would be, and then to flee to a place where the bulk of the population doesn’t like you simply because of your skin color, the language you speak, whatever religion you believe or don’t believe, and/or how little money you have. I can’t imagine how excruciatingly desperate one must be to pull up stakes and leave the only culture they have ever known to come to such a place.
I know immigration is complicated. And I am not advocating “open borders”. I don’t think any Democratic candidate is, regardless of the accusations made by certain Republicans. However, we need to keep this in our minds why they are really leaving their homelands. The word is empathy. Try to put yourself in their shoes and see life from their point of view.
If immigration is your current cause célèbre, because your favorite TV channel has gotten you all worked up about it, you had better be prepared to the idea that the US is going to have to spend a lot of money on it. A lot. There’s two ways to do this; the brutal Berlin Wall method or something more humane.
14
@Thomas The Berlin Wall was built to prevent people from leaving - not to defend the communist east Germany from illegal immigration. They were shooting their own folks at the border! In fact - there were basically no foreigners with exception of Russians and some workers from other communist countries. And what was the result? A total failure of the system to serve the needs of its people and in consequence the collapse of the system. Immigration is essential for this country - just to keep basic services like for instance healthcare running. If immigration is shut down - and make no mistake: that is exactly what the Trump administration is after beyond the crisis at the southern border - then it is really easy to predict what will happen here: failure on all levels of society.
4
@Thomas The legal residents of the affected areas would be deserving of all the help we could muster. That's a big difference from people from another country having problems and coming here illegally.
3
@Thorsten Fleiter
If you want to argue technicalities, fine. However, the East German Regime referred to the wall and the lesser-know, but longer Inner German Border, as the "Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart" when it was built. So, it was in fact initially built to keep people out.
But, a wall is a wall. I saw it when it was up. And it spoke volumes about the character of the people who built it.
At some point, after you decide to erect a wall, you will see that a 17 foot ladder beats a 16 foot wall every time. After that, you’re going to have to have guard towers with machine guns and a policy to shoot any trespassers in order to make it effective.
Do we really want to go down that road?
2
The fact that the Times uses the term immigration when we are actually discussing illegal immigration is problematic and distorts the issue. There has been no crack down on legal immigration which the American people broadly support. The issue at hand is how to deal with illegal immigration at our southern boarder and it is hard to see why the goal should be anything other than zero tolerance.
24
@Todd Seeking asylum is legal.
10
@E But why is it solely America's responsibility to grant asylum? The Latin-American world is huge. All of South America, all of Central America, and 1/3 of North America are potential places to claim asylum. Why don't they pitch in?
15
@Todd
E's point is valid.
Also, we've had a zero quota for years, while many American employers have needed and sought more employees than our country could provide. If we had a quota based on our needs, I could agree with your point. But when there is a need of 5-10 million workers and the only option most have is to come in illegally or illegally over-stay their visas, it's hard to get behind the zero-tolerance thinking. Are American employers just supposed to do without millions of employees they need, and we'll see how that works out?
Trump promised to fix the immigration system. He and others before him haven't even tried. The GOP Senate had tried to fix some of it, Obama said he'd sign, and the House had the votes to pass it. But John Boehner and hardliners stopped it from even being voted on; they didn't offer better ideas, the just stopped it.
Let's push for a functional immigration system, then see how few illegal entries are attempted once legal entrance is available.
3
Democrats have been COMPLETELY outplayed on immigration. They used to be strongly anti-illegal immigration because it put pressure on working class wages, back in that long-ago when when it was the party of the working class! (It was the business class Republicans who were secretly in favor of illegal immigration because of the low wage labor.) Now they are falling all over themselves to apologize for and find exceptions for illegal immigration because being against it is apparently racist.
Our immigration policy is to the left of Canada's - our kumbaya liberal friend Canada! One of democrats' biggest ideals is fairness - fair employment, housing, justice... take your pick. Illegal immigration is also an issue of fairness. It is unfair to all the people who came here legally - doing everything asked of them in an extremely long and convoluted process - for the Democrats to spend so much energy and capital on illegal immigrants. Is this really the hill to die on?
I get the impulse - Trump and his crew so clearly have malign intent that you cannot accept them as honest brokers of immigration policy. But that doesn't mean the Dems need to position themselves as a complete polar opposite. Doing so just plays right into Trump's hands.
37
That’s your opinion! Majority of Americans see a Trump’s policy as inhumane! Democrats want a fair, just and HUMANE immigration policy.
6
@Mari
What about my comment gave you the impression that I support Trump's policies? I called him a malign actor!
5
"America" has not gotten to zero tolerance. It's a band of xenophobes with a penchant for dog whistle politics who have driven these actions. I would say that these people are rather opposed to the American values that I was raised with and taught to be proud of.
7
That is certainly one interpretation of how America got to Zero Tolerance. Here's another one: An estimated 12 to 15 million illegal aliens had already crossed our border when then-president Bush insulted all Americans by saying that the illegal aliens were simply stealing jobs that Americans didn't want to do. This was after we were treated to hordes of illegal aliens running through border crossings under Clinton.
So, in addition to trying to handle the cases of virtuous applicants for legal entry to our country, our system became clogged with millions of undeserving, cheating trespassers (illegal aliens). More recently, the clogged system has become completely dysfunctional because advocates of illegal aliens instructed them to claim asylum (knowing full well that under any definition of asylum, fewer than five percent actually qualify).
The best way to clear a clogged system is to cut off the flow and fix the problem (i.e.: deport the illegal aliens and cease accepting asylum claims of any kind).
And that is how America arrived at Zero Tolerance.
26
The Liberal media has scoffed at the idea of Mexico paying for a wall. Well, better than paying for a wall on our Mexican border, they are finally paying to reduce the number of people entering Mexico for a trip to the US border.
And how did we get them to pay for that? By threatening them with trade sanctions in the form of tariffs.
18
America experienced very rapid and expansive growth until it abruptly slowed as the rest of the world began to grow in the 1970’s. That end to rapid growth has been jarring and unsettling to all but a few who benefitted from the shift.
Immigrants supplied the people needed to sustain the high growth with ample labor and consumers to enable it.
Now, a huge number of people just cannot find the opportunities to improve themselves. They are getting by. They mostly never obtained the skills for the new jobs being created. The jobs for which they were educated in their youth are a lower proportion of all of the jobs, now. The good jobs require superior skills, skills that only college educated people can acquire, so immigrants with those skills are in high demand and get a big share of those good jobs.
With that comes the need to control the costs of living and weakened demand for more goods and services. A very slowly expanding economy. Businesses cannot keep selling more so they cut costs. That provides a market for cheap and docile laborers which undocumented immigrants provide.
The reliance upon the private sector to define how we live as a society caused this mess. We do not have to have a command economy to have a stable and civil one, but relying upon selfish interests to produce a mindfully good social result is and has always produced big but preventable problems for our country.
3
Here is the reality of this situation: Between 1941 and 1933, America was economically insecure because of the Great Depression and there were people - very wealthy people - who took advantage of a national climate of ignorance, xenophobic insecurity, and skepticism. These people who took advantage were racists. They promoted isolationism, racism, antisemitism, and fed the insecurities. That was their pitch.
They even chanted the slogan "America First!" which was purposely given racist overtones.
During that time, the United States had no coherent immigration policy that could take in refugees. Those fleeing persecution and seeking asylum in our country were met with a deliberately arduous process and strict quotas.
Many escaped and made it to this country. But also, many could not get in. They were sent back to occupied territory in Europe and a lot of them died.
We as a nation fought against such policies during World War II.
We should fight them again now.
2
Democracy won out by the end of WWII.
The end of the post war boom led to a resurgence of reactionaries advocating for plutocratic policies who successful employed populist politics to do it.
2
I'm sorry but where is this "liberals want open borders" coming from? It's certainly not based in fact. I believe there's a difference between immigrants and refugees. At the same time I believe that people coming to the United States should be treated humanely. Please don't just keep repeating something you heard without checking its validity: "liberals want open borders". Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
14
@VM
The favored "policy" du jour of the candidates is non-enforcement of existing laws, no deportations, which is de facto open borders.
10
@VM
It probably comes from NYT columnist Farhad Manjoo saying he wants open borders.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/16/opinion/open-borders-immigration.html
Just a guess.
People might also get that idea from Democratic Presidential candidates and other elected officials saying that they don't believe in borders, not agreeing to deport anyone, campaigning to decriminalize illegal border entry. and calling for the abolition of ICE.
1
This immigration problem is effecting every developed country on the planet. This is not specially a US problem.
The one consistent fact is that every country has a limit of how many immigrants can be permitted into their countries.
Everything has a limit.
19
This report into the Trump Administration's internal wrangling with the problem of illegal immigration is enlightening about the sausage-making of policy, but it provides NOTHING by way of recommendations as to how to fix a crisis that has dogged every administration since the passage of the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act. To argue, as the piece does, that instead of bringing in a new crop of "restrictionists" Trump should have used experienced bureaucrats is ludicrous. All Trump's predecessors failed, and failed miserably, at controlling the problem. A Yale/MIT study should have laid the urban legend to rest that there are 11-12 million illegal migrants here. The number is upwards of 20 million -- and growing. The piece also places all blame on Trump -- ignoring the "cages" for children that were a feature of the Obama years, as was massive deportation. Trump's "crime" has been trying to stop the tsunami of illegal immigration which poses enormous problems for the US, not least of all the survival of our social safety net. There is also a huge conceptual problem with defining the "bad people" as restrictionist. Apart from a handful of extreme leftists in or outside the Democratic Party -- all of us are restrictionists. There are more than 3 billion people on this brutally unjust planet with NOTHING. Do we wish to take them all into the US? Of course not. Every sane person is a "restrictionist," the difference is depending where one draws the line.
6
Obama deported massive numbers of people who had lost their asylum cases or overstayed their visas. Massive number
I am a Democrat but we have to acknowledge that there is a certain cynicism in the current family migration surge.
People in Central America know that arriving with a child or children is supposed to guarantee a short stay in detention. They also know that it takes years for an asylum case to be decided. They also know that they can have another kid or two while they are waiting. Those kids are American citizens.
So, if 5 years down the road they lose their asylum case, thequestion becomes how can we deport them when 2 of their kids are citizens by birth and the 2 they had when they got here have become Dreamers?
That’s the reality, part of it anyway.
Another part of the reality is that farmers want seasonal workers and Big Business wants to break unions even further. Those groups WANT immigration.
Then of course there are pregnancy vacations from China, when 8 month pregnant women fly to LA, have their American citizen kid and fly home.
These things actually are happening.
171
@Lefthalfbach I'm curious as to how it is that you "know" what Central American migrants in states thousands of miles from PA are thinking.
7
Absolutely, and apparently there is a market for trafficking children to be your “family”. When in fact they are not related to you in any way. Very sad this situation has turned into this.
25
@Randall
Idk, Randall, but it appears these migrants are thinking, "I'll do anything to enter the United States and I'll break any law to do it."
24
"How America Got to Zero Tolerance on Immigration"
Uh, 22 million people crashed our borders (according to a recent Yale analysis), flooded our emergency rooms, drove up health care costs, forced our schools to spent more on English as a Second Language than tech or lab equipment, increased the rolls and costs of SNAP and WIC, and undermined the sense that we have control of our borders or that the rule of law means anything. Would that be it?
60
Don't forget the active role played in this situation by the obstructionist, hostile Democrats.
10
Zero tolerance has left the USA with the largest prison population in the world. Why would we think it’s a good idea to apply the same principles to immigration? Are we really so afraid?
1
The IRS has zero tolerance if you do not pay your taxes.
Why should ICE be any different?
19
The IRS does not implement zero tolerance. In fact, they will often wave penalties for first time violations and criminal convictions for tax fraud/evasion are extremely rare, despite the fact that probably almost everyone has some mistakes in their returns (did you pay your “use tax” lately?). They do this because they know that the tax code is incredibly complex. The laws governing legal immigration are almost rivaling the tax code in complexity. Addressing illegal entry is sensible, but so is keeping some humanity in the legal process and restoring judicial discretion to the deportation process.
3
@Joel Hughes
And what would be the response of the IRS be if instead of making mistakes, a person deliberately refused to pay taxes, told every one they shouldn't pay taxes either, claimed that the entire system was illegitimate, protested outside IRS headquarters with "NOT ONE MORE TAX PROSECUTION" and became a constant fixture on sympathetic cable news channels gleefully daring the IRS to come get him?
I think you know what would happen.
Because if the IRS didn't make an example of that person his views would spread and more and more people would stop paying taxes. And the US wouldn't have the funding to do any number of things. That could be bad or good depending on your viewpoint but deterrence is always part of law enforcement, whether at the border or with the IRS.
1
Well-researched and well-written article. Wow if you're a staffer in the Trump Administration, you have job security equal to the drummer from Spinal Tap.
Any Democrat running for prez right now would be smart to make "secure borders" their cause. Run to the "right" of Trump in the sense that he's failed to secure anything, and support more common sense and cost-effective strategies.
4
This is an extremely misleading article. 'Immigration' has been at ground zero for the past 30+ years. All this article is saying is that DHS has shifted its focus to border security. Obama kept the status quo of deterrence too. Personally I'm really disappointed that no Dem has expressed what they plan to do at the border specifically besides a few who will just open them up.
16
There is a segment of the population in the US that is
1) opposed to immigration(ALL immigration, legal or illegal).
2) There is a segment of the population ok with LEGAL immigration.
3) And finally there is a segment of the population that is ok with and welcoming of illegal immigration.
It is foolish to think that Trump supporters ONLY belong to category 1. There is a large segment of the population that is ok with legal immigration AND supports Trump. I cannot understand, how in good faith anyone can support illegals coming to the country and then offering them health-care AND making it not a crime to just walk across the border. I wonder why do we even have laws or immigration officers at the airports then? Why not just let everyone just walk in?
11
There is no third segment. Nobody advocates illegal immigration. Don’t believe what you hear on Fox and things will start making sense.
1
@Malin, I got my info on the Democratic candidates’ support for illegal immigration without recourse to Fox. I just watched the debates.
4
@Malin When I go to a foreign country I enter the country at a legal point of entry. I don't just sneak across a border because I can. I call that illegal immigration. And according to the debates ALL candidates are ok with illegals coming in and would not deport them.
2
0 tolerance on “illegal” immigration.
Not endorsing Trump’s positions and declarations, but call it what it is. A strong Democrat contender may label this more of a refugee crisis and not signal to Americans that they promote open borders.
4
I am waiting for the GOP to put forth its zero tolerance policy toward those who hire undocumented workers.
Who am I kidding? That would mean cracking down on guys like .... Donald Trump.
3
The US does not have an immigration "policy" and the entire world knows it. How many millions have come in and overstayed their visas? Any clue? Illegal immigrants don't care about e-Verify. Many never plan to work or just work in the black market or move to CA and live off the taxpayer. Americans are just sick and tired of this.Why can't we adopt a system like Canada? If the world really thought they could not just come here "get in" they would not come. Congress is to blame - Trump is just trying to do something which is more than anyone else is doing or has done before him and it's going to get him re-elected.
114
@Sarah99
Canada has a points based system for independent immigrants but it also has a family reunification program. a temporary worker program including from workers and nannies who can obtain permanent residency eventually, and a generous refugee program wjich includes government sponsored refugees and community sponsored refugees. In 2018 more refugees were admitted to Canada than to the US. On a per capita basis we have a much higher level of immigration than the US. Most Canadians support our immigration policies.
10
@Barbara Greene But its also worth noting that Canada has 30M people in a landmass that's bigger than the US (the US has 320M). Our neighbors to the north need immigration and they're still part of the British Commonwealth that makes immigration easier. We need immigrants, but not in the way Canada does or has access to.
9
@Barbara Greene
Agreed. There's also a family reunification component to the legal immigration system.
Canada also has a seasonal worker program which allows farmers to hire people seasonally, legally bringing them into the country to plant and/or pick produce. The farmers hire them, and pay for transportation and lodgings. It's not a perfect system by any means, but much better than the irregular and unregulated American system.
4
At what point do our three living, still decent, sane, moderate, sensible, patriotic former Presidents hold a JOINT live press conference & disclaim the current (small p) president? Or at least start this new rallying chant: "Vote him out!"
2
@Marco
SORRY. I meant four (4) surviving Presidents. But that's how silent they are--except for Carter, perhaps--that I've lost track of the correct number.
1
This long investigatory piece is the most important reason why a free press is essential to the maintenance and security of our freedoms.
It’s also the most detailed behind-the-scenes examination that we’ve had—on this issue, at any rate—that opens a window into the darkest corners of policy-making in this chaotic, clueless administration.
A president, stuffed full of himself and his ignorance—is the most certain violation of the nation’s security apparatus. Can we afford four more years of this—if not more—of his complete incompetence and clearly incomprehensible mismanagement?
88
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18
Apparently you didn't read it very carefully. The problem is decades in the making--to include both Politburos and American businesses that rely on illegal immigrants--not just "this chaotic, clueless administration". But keep the fantasy going if it helps.
2
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18 That "free press" must also be independent of the market-controlled media - for instance, there is nothing "free" about Fox Corp. In fact it is Fox that almost exactly fits George Orwell's Big Brother creator of Newspeak and the legions of Newthink robots. I cannot think of another explanation for what has happened to a formerly rational nation.
3
The number of self-described liberals in the comments who seem willing to justify throwing babies in cages if Dems can triangulate on the issue to "beat Trump" is apalling.
They are choosing dishonor over defeat. And as a result they will likely suffer both.
1
What is it with "conservatives" and their aversion to facts? I see a lot of parroting in their comments: "open borders," "Socialists," "extremists," but not a single fact to back up their labels.
No Democrat likes everything that every leader in their party espouses, but the trump party just blindly accepts everything their "leaders" tell them, no matter how ludicrous or contrary to the obvious it is. They have so quickly adopted the value system of 1930s Germany: the ends justifies the means. Dehumanize, delegitimize your opponents, label them "unfit to govern," put "the other" in cages, take their children and disappear them because they're less than human, all while wrapping themselves in "god" and "country."
FYI, civilized people CAN control illegal immigration without kidnapping children and traffficking them out to institutions and "adoptions." We've done it before.
7
President Hoover deported 1.8 million Mexican Americans during the Depression, more than 60 percent of them American citizens. The United States officially scapegoated these people, blaming them for "taking Americans' jobs." We have been here before. It's shameful that we're here again.
5
The author complains that Trump "used his kickoff speech in Trump Tower to rail against Mexican immigrants who were “rapists” and who were “bringing drugs” and “bringing crime” to the United States. Does he thinks it's wrong to criticize Mexican immigrants who rape, smuggle drugs and commit crimes? Trump described Mexican immigrants who don't do these things as "good people."
5
Let Trump wallow in his immigration rants and wall-building promises and putting asylum seekers in animal cages. Let him set his tariffs and watch how American exports fall in return. Meanwhile the Dems should continue pushing on Healthcare, Income Inequality, Education that prepares kids today for the economy of the future, and of course all of the policies needed to save the entire planet from the climate change disaster which is already ravaging parts of the earth because of fossil fuel consumption and forest destruction. Let Trump rant and rave about immigration, an issue which does need fixing, but doesn't really affect America and Americans the way the real issues do. Let him rant and rave like the circus clown he actually is.
The Democrats need simply to show with clear scientific data how their ideas will improve life for all but a few fat cats who don't need government help. Let Trump whine and make ridiculous faces and false promises that can easily be shown to be false. Immigration should be a losing battle for Trump and Dems should let Trump sink with his ship of fools wearing their "MakeAmericaGreatAgain" hats. Trump has been impeaching himself ever since he was inaugurated. Go positive and say what you will do for the country while Trump battles his "Windmill" of Immigration.
2
The next Democratic president must undo it all: end family separations, no raids, prosecute the criminals in ICE and tear down Trump's Wall.
The lead paragraph of this story says that among other things, Homeland Security chief responsible that we don’t cede control of the Arctic to Russia and China.
But Russia has more than 40 icebreakers working in Arctic, and we have only one or two for what is becoming an important new shipping Lane in this era of climate change.
3
You may remember something called September 11th. Those immigrants were here legally.
6
America isn't "zero tolerance" on immigration; Trump and the GOP are zero tolerance on being human.
4
years ago Obama proposed amnesty for ALL of these individualsThe headline is inaccurate. The US has one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world. We've taken in more immigrants than any other country.
We don't have "Zero Tolerance" for either legal or illegal immigration. By some estimates we have 10 million illegals currently living in the US. Years ago Obama proposed amnesty for ALL of these individuals. Democratic cities provide 'sanctuary' and drivers' licenses for illegals; Dem candidates have proposed decriminalization and free healthcare for the same. These are not signs of "intolerance" for either kind of immigration.
8
@Stanley Gomez, You write, "We've taken in more immigrants than any other country." This is false. Don't you read the stories about African and Middle-Eastern refugees fleeing into Europe? And don't you read the stories about the problems these European countries are having? And your comment that, "Years ago Obama proposed amnesty for ALL of these individuals." is simply false news repeated by people who watch Fox News.
2
When will we see zero tolerance and court action against the corporations who have been hiring illegal immigrants...including the trumps?
6
Well, nice micro story, but the macro story is this:
Since possibly my birth, in 1970, but certainly since the early 90s, the Democrats have abandoned any real commitment to labor (ie, non rich, non professionals). Part of that abandonment entails removing any actual-left, actual-liberal (FDR/LBJ), actual Keynesian explanation for why things pretty much never get much materially better for the mass of the population who aren't rich or professionals.
That has left the explanation for "Why things aren't going well for the mass of people" almost entirely to the right wing, whether of the Democrats or of the GOP. Sooner or later, someone was going to take the tack we see: It's them fer'ners who are taking your jobs!
It's quite tempting: if you're establishment-capital, you can choose to slightly bend your profit curve in order to keep the country from falling apart (as in FDR, etc) or you can find convenient scapegoats.
This is the real reason for the civil war inside the Democrats: the progs want to pull an FDR 2.0; the "centrists" don't. The worry of the progs is that even if the "centrists" win, they literally lack the ideology or whatever it is to do what is necessary to improve the lives (and hopes) of the mass of the population. So, the best you'll get is an interregnum before Trump 2.0 comes roaring in.
By which time climate failsafe may be in the rear-view mirror. And the fascism climate chaos will inevitably engender will end all hope, period.
6
There are many immigrants who serve in the military. Trump dodged serving the military through being born wealthy and getting a dubious exemption. Mind boggling hypocrisy. If you serve in the US military you put your life on the line. Trump put his life on the line apparently only during his own personal Vietnam, dodging venereal disease apparently. Mr Trump what is your ethnicity?
5
You mean zero tolerance on ILLEGAL immigration. Please make the distinction.
19
Again, you people in the northeast and northwest simply don't have a clue how bad it is down here. This should have been done decades ago. Bush dropped the ball because he is a delusional. Obama just stood there like a dope and watched the ball on the ground. Finally, Trump is punting that ball back across the border.
15
@Pilot
That's what he says.......
sounds righteous, bold, practical; drums up lots of flashy press and cheering crowds, gives the guy a thrill..
and those unhappy people still keep coming north, trying to get into the U.S.
What's missing here?
The headline is part of the reason "Zero Tolerance on Immigration.
No - it's zero tolerance on illegal immigration and on those who encourage and assist with it.
102
@american abroad If this election is about kitchen table issues there's no way the Democrats lose. If the election is about immigration there's no way we win. Free healthcare for illegal immigrants? You can't be serious. If we lose blame it on leftist zealots pushing divisive issues like this. In poll after poll the majority of Americans voters are against this. This is the only issue that would compel independent swing voters to hold their nose & vote for Trump. Our stance on immigrations guarantees the Democrats will lose the working-class vote again. Voters are also strongly against any legislation that would increase the flow of illegal immigration. But progressive Dems are for policies that not only decriminalize illegal immigration but encourage it. Last January NY lawmakers voted to allow illegal immigrants the ability to receive scholarships & financial aid. How are Democrats supposed to tell voters that state aid to help afford college isn't available for them but is available for those who are in this country illegally? Many state Democrats are now offering illegals free healthcare, welfare, food stamps, drivers licenses, schooling, in-state-tuition, & sanctuary. This is unsustainable & indefensible. Why is the only answer, that they have an unrestricted right to come to the U.S.? The more benefits we give, the more will try to get here. We know that. It's an insane & impossible equation. If a far-left candidate is the nominee in 2020 then we will lose decisively.
5
It is not "zero tolerance" on immigration. It is zero tolerance on illegal immigration.
20
The number of illegal immigrants is so small (11 million) compared to 325 million in the country that its a non-issue, except when a racist demagogue starts hurting them for political advantage.
If illegal immigrants are in your top 10 issues for reasons other than protecting them from Trump, you should take a hard look in the mirror.
4
Disregard the sad pictures the media keeps posting, or the sad stories about the poor, pitiful children "held in cages resembling concentration camps...", disregard the emotional appeals about "conditions the US caused, that makes the central Americans flee the gangs and violence". What is the solution to this issue, that the Democrats were saying as recently as 4 months ago, "There is NO problem at the southern border."? I live in a Sanctuary City. The illegal immigration issue has been a problem for about 30 years. This was not caused by Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton or any other single person. It is caused by the inaction of Congress, the failure of the E-Verify program, the obsession with cheap labor, and making money off the illegals' backs. I believe both sides want to keep it the same, there is a load of money being made. If your farm, or any industry requires illegal, under the table workers to be profitable, you have a bad business plan. We've got a housing crisis, we've got an illegal alien crisis, and nobody has a solution. And giving them free medical? I dont get free medical, Do You?
15
When Obama left office illegal immigration into the U.S was at a 40 year low and there were no caravans of asylum seekers crossing Mexico. It might be useful to ask why the Obama Administration was more successful than Trump.
6
"How America Got to ‘Zero Tolerance’ on Immigration"
It did? Maybe the government did, but most of America didn't.
(And: Is this a news story or a feature?)
1
How did America get to a point where "tolerance for illegal immigration" has so much support?
14
The same day as a heart-breaking story of a loving family, with a focus on a daughter's need for her father, and her father's love for his daughter
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/us/migrant-teen-suicide-long-island.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage
Of course, Trump would never understand such love for a daughter---lust *, but not love
* https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-ivanka-trump-creepiest-most-unsettling-comments-a-roundup-a7353876.html
3
Americans should sell the Statue of Liberty, and Emma Lazarus’s inscription on it to the Russians to reduce the federal debt. “Give us your tired, your poor your huddled masses yearning to breathe free” is just meaningless tripe.
1
@FilmMD, To be fair, the 19th and early 20th century were different times when we needed and could absorb these immigrants.
4
Exhibit A on how the Senate is totally broken. There were what
A long, well-researched and comprehensive article, and great documentation of the whole messy track record.
But the simpler answer to how all of this could happen a combination of the portion of America that's still racist and a well practiced hate-monger. Trump knows how to turn their prejudice into fear and hatred, and elevate their dislike of people they don't even know into screaming irrational anger. Hitler did the same thing, Mussolini did the same thing; they trumped up enough hate that millions of people died. Many of our finest fought and dies so that sort of thing would never happen again.
Most of our ancestors came in legally under a quota, which was based on how many immigrants we needed. But the mentality of recent years and the zero-quota policies don't allow American employers to hire the numbers of people they need. The only way that leaves is illegally, then some of us complain about "illegals". And under today's hate-politics we can't even have discussion of how to fix the immigration system so it works as it used to.
Trump gets lots of cheers and votes by railing against illegal immigrants. Wouldn't it be better if he kept his campaign promise to fix the immigration system? We wouldn't need a wall, kids separated, detention crisis conditions, or the long list of racist radicals appointed to run DHS, CBP, ICE. But that won't happen because cheers and votes are more important to Trump than actually fixing or improving anything.
5
How did America get to 'Zero Tolerance' on Immigration?
That's easy to answer.
The same way America voted to put a conservative white nationalist in the White House -- complete with all the trappings of a God-fearing and patriotic tele-Evangelist.
Because after all his recent tweets and utterances about the four freshman Congresswomen and his policies since Day 1 of his administration, there's no way not to see Donald Trump for the racist and bigot that he is.
4
"How America Got to ‘Zero Tolerance’ on Immigration"
I think you mean ILLEGAL immigration.
As Mark Twain once said: The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter—’tis the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning.
29
@Luciano absolutely correct!! This is why we cannot come to an agreement on immigration policy. It seems even the NY Times cannot tell the difference between immigration and illegal border crossings
5
@Luciano, refugees are NOT illegal immigrants.
Speaking of the difference between almost the right word and the right word.
Please don’t use the headline “America ....” as though we ALL have gotten to zero tolerance. As the old adage goes “the squeaky wheel gets the grease,” and this is certainly the case here. Most American ARE for sensible immigration policies. Most Americans are NOT clamoring for open borders and the abolishment of ICE. Words matter, and headlines matter more because we have been reduced to reading our news is micro- bites. Until we return to a society where we can digest more than a clickbait headline the NYT might well consider who “America” is in its headlines.
2
I guess you could say, as the old joke has it, America has finally become a good place to be from.
Many people are long past the threshold of intolerance for illegal immigration.
Please stop rubbing sand in the wounds of irritation on this topic.
11
Hey Democrats, how about talking less about immigrants for a change and talk more about what you are planning to do to improve the lives of the working people that are already here.
10
@heinrichz, last I checked, it was Trump talking about immigration and making it his numbers 1, 2 and 3 priorities. In fact, he doesn't actually talk about 'immigration' so much as he talks about immigrants in his constant and relentless efforts to demonize them.
Meanwhile, Democrats have things like access to healthcare and education, criminal justice reform, voter rights, protecting our elections and institutions, clean air and water, and the expansion of public infrastructure as their priorities. All these would help a lot more "working people" than a stupid, ineffective wall. Just saying...
1
"Immigration restrictionists" is the new term for enforcing immigration laws? This is about as obfuscatory as the term, "undocumented." Documents reflect legal status. Absent legal status, they are illegal.
What is it about enforcing our border that progressives hate so much?
16
@AACNY
"What is it about enforcing our border that progressives hate so much?"
1) the callous way enforcement is being done
2) the lack of co-ordinated and timely legal processing
3) the mis-directed funding that delays more effective measures to police the borders
4) The lack of any substantial long-term planning to improve conditions in the countries these people are emigrating from
And using the word *hate* to describe disapproval of the way this administration is handling this issue is.... a pretty simple-minded dismissal of another citizen's views.
@atutu
Trump has just proposed rapid processing of asylum seekers. We shall see if you and others complaining about that process put your money where your mouths are.
1
Why climb a fence to get into America when all you have to say, your seeking asylum.
In order to stop this loop hole We have to go to these countries, and put in Marshall Law where living is intolerable.This is the only way we can control this flood of immigrants.
3
@Independent1776
Put in Marshall Plan and I'm with you.
Mexicans are not immigrants. They were here before the Europeans got here, before the Asians got here, before the Africans got.. So they have more rights to stay and live anywhere in North America, exception being Native Americans of USA and Canada who were before the Mexicans.
On the other hand we must the re-examine issue of many of those that support Trump and are of European origin and who wish to make America White Again have the right to continue living in North America. That is the bigot segment of Trump supporters.
There is no reason why they, the bigots, should not be deported back to Europe. Bigots do not have the right to call themselves Americans. Bigots do not have the right to American citizenship. Whether they were born in the USA or NOT.
4
@Indian Diner I think you're wrong because it is whites who transformed this land into the entity known as United States of America with all the ensuing benefits and prosperity that make it an attractive destination for immigrants. If this weren't the United States, but rather the original entity, nobody would be trying to come here.
7
@Eugene
That does not take away the rights of Mexicans to live anywhere they want to on the soil of North America. Millions of Mexicans gave cheap labor to people of European origin. have not heard of the slavery of African-Americans and their free labor? If European Americans were to pay back what they owe to Mexicans, African-Americans and Native Americans they would be paupers, trillions and trillions of dollars. I am suggesting the deportation of only those of European origins who are bigots, a large section of Trump voters.
1
@Eugene
Whites had more than a little help.
The U.S. entity is a unique blend, and to separate it's many ethnic elements at this stage... well, the parts will never measure up to the whole.
In other words, such a break-up will definitely kill it.
I don't know about you, but the rest of us definitely don't want that to happen.
Applaud this article for its intent but an important fact here is unclear -- how exactly does separating the kids from the parents (of immigrants) deter more illegal immigration? Simply because parents won't cross if they believe they will be separated for 20 days? I struggled to understand this part of the piece and wish it had been written more clearly.
“America” didn’t. Trump needed a snake oil ingredient!
1
You’re headline is completely inaccurate and out of touch. America is not even at zero tolerance of illegal immigration. And that is why there is a debate.
11
"Zero tolerance" to the NYT is standard practice in most countries.
17
Once again, The Times gets it wrong on immigration. America is not against immigration. It is against illegal immigration. Wait your turn, as my grandparents did when they emigrated from Russia in 1918. Do it legally. Work hard. Learn to speak English, not your native tongue. Become a citizen. Then join the rest of us in pursuing the American dream. If my grandparents could do it, anyone can do it.
23
Please NYT. The subject of immigration is already a heated and divisive issue without these misleading headlines. Correct to state " Zero Tolerance on Illegal Immigration".
17
Very Good. The boarders should be sealed tight to illegals and uneducated migrants who will destroy our country and make it like the nonfunctional counties they come from. if this will be carried out efficiently the problems of illegal immigrants, detention camps and dividing families will disappear. Americas needy, homeless, poor families come first.
23
More fake news on Zero Tolerance. Americans welcome legal immigrants who play by the rules. We do not want millions of illegal, poor and uneducated people violating our laws. Which part of this do liberals not understand?
29
The title of this article is very misleading.
20
You give illegal aliens an inch and they will take a mile, based on history. I don’t want any illegals entering the USA unless they go through legal channels.
16
There is 100% tolerance for legal immigration.
Once again the New York Times twists words to inflame reader's emotions. It has almost reached the level of propaganda. There is literally no truth in your headline for this Magazine article.
Something is wrong in the higher echelons of NYT's management that this headline is allowed to pass muster.
There is "zero tolerance" for illegal immigration, as there should be when immigration law is followed in the same way as tax law is followed and as criminal law is followed.
27
@John Murray, America’s and Americans’ interests have certainly taken a back seat to the Times’ personal vendetta against Trump. I read the Times now more just to see how far they can take their obsession. It reminds me with a sort of strange amusement of how as a kid I always used to get a kick out of watching my crazy aunt going wild at the Sunday dinner table going on about how terrible her life was. I felt sorry for her but at the same time it certainly broke the usual Sunday dinner boredom.
13
@John Murray
There is absolutely not "100%" tolerance for legal immigration. Anyone who has been through the process can tell you that it is arduous, confusing, expensive, and lengthy. I know this from experience, and I also know from experience that hiring skilled foreigners has become far more difficult over the last few years and applications are often rejected without any reason given. The large university I often work with advises seeking alternative paths (temporary student status that allows one to work, for example) because it is often not worth the effort and expense - and this is regarding some of the most skilled people in the world in their fields.
Furthermore, if you'd bothered to read the article, you would know that a request for asylum is, by definition, the first step in a legal immigration process. And clearly, there is anything but "100% tolerance" for asylum requests.
Finally, if the existing legal immigration procedures were clearer and made more sense, there wouldn't be so many undocumented immigrants in the county. But the longer people like you sit on the sidelines and dispassionately shake your head at others who are less fortunate than yourself for not playing by a set of broken and contradictory rules, the less chance there is that the flaws in the system will actually be addressed.
71
@John Doe
It is funny and sad at the same time. The Times cannot see that it has a problem, and anyone who says so is ignored.
The best explanation I have is that they make more money off of moral outrage than they do off of sober, informative, relevant articles.
I get all my world news from BBC.com, and national news from finance websites.
I guess I keep my subscription to the Times out of optimism that it will someday be the paper it was when I started reading it regularly in the 1990's.
8
i grow more and more ashamed of this nation. if the desire is to make america great again perhaps it needs to be understood that in the past this nation was supposed to be a melting pot..
Guess they leave that out of the gop history books. Did my ancestors come here legally? Beats the hell out of me. Some got here prior to Ellis island which was constructed to help cut down on corruption. So who knows if their papers were in order.
1
The problem with the current illegal immigrants is not the "melting pot". At least the Mexican/Guatemalan ones are quite likely to be of a cultural nature that they will eventually join the pot and be successful.
The problem is sheer numbers of poor and uneductaed people, which we no longer need. Remember ... the agricultural jobs many hold now will soon be replaced by robots, which require no health care.
4
@Doug McDonald farmers and such in wisconsin say different
Thank you for the detail in this article. While Trump may be crass and cruel, he is correct in his overall go to deter illegal immigration. His methods are similar to those of many European nations. Candidates running to unseat him need to speak clearly as to their goals in this regard. Americans already have a tattered safety net - due to austerity budgets since the Reagan era, a giant military budget, and so on. Our public schools, already under- funded, are struggling to accommodate children who’ve never learned to read in their home countries. Funding healthcare for people here illegally is highly unpopular. We have a long border, and we need sensible legal immigration policies, but Congress has been unable to deliver. We as a nation have a long way to go in “fixing” this issue in a rational, fair way.
18
Immigration has was for me zero tolerance in 1978 when I was applying for a green card. With all the paperwork in place from me and my employer I was called for an interview as a final step. As the interview was getting to a close and an assured green card issuance, the immigration officer paused for a moment and told me that I no longer eligible for a green card. He declared that the paperwork arrived in his office five days after my stay had expired and that means I worked illegally for five days. He put me on a volunteer departure status. The dates in the paperwork were nearly month old but someone from my employer's large organization had posted it a month later! The employer sent several letters pleading that it was not my fault for the delay of five days. But nothing changed. I had to renew my voluntary departure status every three months! The zero tolerance law says once I violated any immigration law, I become ineligible to get a green card in US. I must leave the US and go outside an reapply for green card.
7
Unfortunately immigration laws have become discretionary. Many go thru an exhaustive and expensive process to legally immigrate. Then on the other side open border policy for future voters. Benefits etc awaiting. The process must be same for all.
11
Most of us can't stand tump, but when it comes to immigration the far left dems need to grow up.
You can't have open borders and unlimited welfare for everyone who wishes to flee poverty or violence. We'd be flooded as anyone with common sense knows.
A national Gallup poll last year found the following:
Three-quarters of Americans think immigration is a good thing
65% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents agree
39% say immigration should be kept at present level, 28% say increased
The poll also found that 84% of the country supported legal immigration, with specifically 80% of Repubs and 92% of Democrats saying legal immigration is a good thing for the U.S.
It's clear how the vast majority feel. Legal immigration, with rules and vetting followed is what most want. Not open doors.
And we can't house and feed and provide education and health care for millions who want to claim asylum based on poverty in their country. We don't have unlimited space, housing and resources to do that.
Someone has to find a sensible, rational middle ground. Including the dems. Or we all know what may well happen again.
21
Zero tolerance is not new. President Obama didn't become "the reporter in chief" for nothing.
The Times ran an article on persons seized attempting to cross the border and removals after detention. They compared presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama with Trump and the total numbers are all about the same.
In fact, some of Trump's numbers are slightly lower than Obama's for the first two years. That stat should really freak him out.
But two things are different now. One is the number of asylum seekers, consisting mostly of women and children has grown exponentially and the other is that the current surge of migrants include many climate refugees and those fleeing the violence created in the aftermath of American wars in Central America.
As the biggest producer of greenhouse gas and the nation that has waged covert wars, supported military coups and been the biggest launderer of drug money, our proverbial chickens are coming home to roost.
We need a new immigration law. But we also need to recognize our responsibility for part of the crisis unfolding at the border.
Most of all we need a sensible national dialogue about what a new law might look like. So far neither the Democrats or the Republicans seem able to provide that.
So let's have that conversation through the media. These 'insider' pieces are interesting but what we need is the analysis from experts who have no political skin in the game. Present the people with the facts and let the politicians hear from us.
4
@Drspock
The number of women and children has grown because illegal immigrants know that the democrats and media will plead their cases one they get here. Rapid DNA tests show that 1/3 are even related to the children.
By encouraging immigrants to drag innocent children on this dangerous trek, our politicians are complicit in the deaths that ensue. Even Obama had the sense to tell immigrants not to bring their children and advising them of the separation policies.
8
The zero tolerance is precipitated by overwhelming number of illegal immigrants exploiting loopholes in immigration laws created out of compassion. Where in the world can one enter illegally, live for decades and all the while enjoy the same privileges as citizens- education, healthcare, drivers license, employment. After years of living here illegally when finally ordered to leave, one can refuse to leave and enjoy the support of local government and free lawyers. Most law abiding Americans (legal immigrants included) are fed up with this behavior and want zero tolerance.
22
Well written article with what appears to be the facts in a chronological order. Glad to see very little bias. One must remember that immigration is a huge, complicated problem. It is doubtful a different administration could do a better job except in public relations. The hammer was supposed to come down on immigration enforcement after the 1987 legalization act which in itself was a total debacle (overwhelming fraudulent applications). Bush#1 & 2, Clinton & Obama didn't enforce the laws as written. Trump is attempting to enforce the laws as written by Congress. The dems hate Trump and will do anything to prevent him in succeeding. The border can be protected without the wall but it would be helpful. The present laws must be re-written to prevent the ongoing problems.
5
Is immigration even a problem? From my perspective in California, surrounded by immigrants from Mexico and Central America, I don't see a crisis that has any basis in reality. I know we need to screen immigrants, but 99% of the immigrants I know are hard-working, nice people who contribute a lot to the community. Frankly, many of them contribute more than natural born citizens. It's no accident that most of the manual labor in my city is provided by very hard-working, responsible Mexicans. I don't see American citizens lining up for these jobs. It's interesting that my relatives in far-flung towns with population decline are the ones panicking about immigration. I have a relative in a small town who is convinced that the US is being overtaken by hordes of immigrants and Muslims. There are literally no Muslims and very few immigrants in his town! Maybe a few Mexican guys who work in the local cafe kitchen and the owner is desperate to hire more workers, but can't find any. My relative is happy to eat the food they make as he rants about closing the borders. You fear what you don't know. If people turned off Fox News and talked to immigrants, they wouldn't be so afraid. This is one of those emotional issues that has no grounding in fact. I suppose that means reason won't work and all the politicians will have to continue pretending that the flow of peoples across artificial borders for economic purposes is some kind of unprecedented crisis.
5
Whatever your views about allowing immigrants to take refuge in our country, there is absolutely no excusing the cruel and inhumane treatment of asylum seekers on our borders. This is not complicated, folks. Countries that treat men, women, and children with such violent disregard are not going in the right direction. In fact, things are going in a very dark direction.
Additionally, this article glosses over the fact that U.S. policy in Central America is largely responsible for this humanitarian crisis. "Liberals" don't want "open borders." People who are concerned about our country want its leaders to address issues intelligently, and to treat fellow human beings with respect and dignity.
3
Jeff, it appears you are watching too much mainstream media news. There is no violent disregard. They aren't making these people slaves. They aren't beating on them They're getting fed, clothe, housed and medical attention. The Border Patrol and ICE are not the enemy, they are there to protect us, and one of our political parties is trying to demonize them . They are AMERICANS DOING A JOB, FOR THE BENEFIT OF AMERICANS . What should we do with them, just cut them loose?
2
It is worth thinking about Donald Trump's personal record vis-a-vis immigration to the United States. His grandfather settled in the United States after being deported from Germany for failure to meet his military obligations. His mother was an economic immigrant with no skills. In all probability neither would meet today's immigration standards. Trump is married to someone who appears to have worked illegally in the US before receiving permission to do so. Despite promises 3 years ago this would be clarified it never has. His in-laws then became part of chain migration to the United States. In other words, Donald Trump has intimate connections to a host of immigration policy challenges routinely cited as flaws in others. When I was a kid presidents like Roosevelt and Eisenhower were routinely held out as models of leaders who rose to overcome great threats to this country. Today we have a president who pays off mistresses, calls on foreign powers to help him win the presidency, ignores the Constitution, and cannot even meet the standards he himself proclaims as desired behavior. We mocked Richard Nixon's "I am not a crook" but it is hard to find substance behind Donald Trump's "I am not a racist". And we certainly do not see Trump responding to or recognizing his own origins and behavior.
3
The United States since the late 1920's has had a zero policy on illegal immigration.
The problem then as now is that undocumented immigrants and smugglers pay no heed to laws and policies.
This encyclopedic story quickly becomes mind-numbing because it's all about bureaucratic wrangling and intrigue.
It has precious little to do with facts on the ground.
The numbers tell the story.
In 1990, there were some 3.5 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S.
Two years later, the Clinton Administration, under the leadership of AG Janet Reno, dramatically beefed up border security.
The militarization and huge expansion of Border Patrol agents on the Mexican border skyrocketed.
That should have shutdown illegal immigration, right?
Instead, today we have 10.7 undocumented immigrants in America.
Unregulated immigration is much like drug trafficking. Both are illegal and both have voracious consumers. One takes in cheap immigrant labor and the other junkies and so-called recreational drug users.
DC bureaucrats and politicians may as well seek to regulate the movement of the sun.
4
The key challenge is to keep America attractive for the best and brightest around the world, while opening clear legal channels for the rest. In a brainpower driven world, we need to continue to bring in the best, rather than turn them off by giving voice to racism.
Of course illegal immigration should be dissuaded. But is that really where the focus should be?
2
The entire premise of this article is wrong and indicative of the elite media's inability to comprehend America outside 'The Bubble'. Americans have not gotten to 'zero tolerance' on immigration; this country has an extremely generous immigration system that enjoys broad popular support. On the other hand, Americans have very much gotten to 'zero tolerance' on illegal immigration, including the flagrant abuse of the asylum system by economic migrants that we see taking place before our very eyes. Illegal immigration a violation of the American people's right to democratic self-governance, to establish and enforce laws as they see fit, and an enormous injustice to those who follow the rules of the legal immigration system, especially people who desperate and legitimately need the protection of asylum.
17
What is wrong with economic migrants? All 4 of my grandparents were economic migrants. Coming to this country to better their prospects in life. Of course they were white with blue eyes and blond hair. So they were welcomed with open arms
1
@Kathy, they were welcomed with open arms into a much less populous nation that still relied on human muscle power for many things. Even more importantly, there were no government benefits generally available and each and every immigrant had to prove they were. “Unlikely to become a public charge”. No sick, no elderly, no Down’s syndrome babies...
1
This article is misleading. Few are against legal immigration but many are against the use of asylum as currently practiced allowing anyone from anywhere to cross the border, make a claim, and stay here for years while the claim is verified and litigated all at our expense.
15
My 75 year old mom said it all yesterday: "Did they get any of THEM on Sunday?" THEM being, of course, any person in this country from south of our borders (regardless of their legal status or the cause of being here illegally-recent entry, expiration of TPS status, etc.). In her mind every immigrant is a hardened criminal and/or on "welfare." When I mention our family's arrival from Italy last century, she points to the lack of integration of modern arrivals (not only a stereotype but outright false) while forgetting that to the day they died, her grandparents didn't speak a lick of English.
Immigrants from our south have been OTHERED-a dehumanizing process that allows one to justify enslavement, murder, hatred. The majority of Americans, it seems, neither can nor want to understand the nuances of the problem-just get THEM and send them "home" (even if they've lived here under TPS for over a decade and are well integrated into American life).
6
It's not about ANY policy- immigration or otherwise. It's also not any Dem vs GOP debate. We need both to have a functional democracy. It's a clash of civilization & justice (more than rule-of-law). It's also the unfinished business left over since abrupt end of post-Civil war Reconstruction era that started with Jim Crow in slave holding South.
It seems, all the sensible, educated GOP leaders are either sidelined or left, while only uneducated/ignorant, or coward but rowdy, people are in the helm of GOP.
Destruction of Republican party started mainly by Reagan in early 1980s. It's also the start of fast decline of USA as a country. Reagan led GOP started infusing religion aplenty in both public policies & in public education by promoting private/charter schools & home schools, which are exclusively religious in nature & Govt must not promote it.
Reagan also started the destructive Crony Capitalism (coinciding with globalization & rise of China) by massively deregulating private industries.
Since then, Republican party started to carefully groom a specific section of American society to consolidate its core vote bank by deliberately making and keeping such people highly religious, devoid of any sense of any meaningful education (degrees started be to bought & sold more freely), citizenry devoid of any sense of logic, truth, justice etc.
Trump did not create it. But he defeated all GOP leaders to exploit what GOP so carefully nurtured for so long!
1
"America" hasn't gotten to zero tolerance on immigration. SOME people in America (more accurately, the United States) have. I bristle every time I'm lumped together in a headline with a group of less than half of this country.
2
When President Obama was tough on illegal immigration, he had a lot of support. We have something like 10 million illegal immigrants in our nation, conservative figure. Most of are not here because they want to be Americans, they want to work and send money out of the country which enriches not our nation but their homelands. Illegal immigration depresses wages. See when wages started to stagnate and compare that when illegal immigration began to rise.
Trump, like Obama, is making illegal immigration a priority but of course, his style is completely different. So the more ridicule Trump gets, the more combative he becomes. Separating kids from parents is horrible idea but it stopped. However, photos -- specifically the one used at the very beginning of this story -- was taken in 2014, when Obama was cracking down on the border. We either are going to enforce our borders, and our immigration laws, or throw open the flood gates and see what the heck happens. Everyone knows our asylum laws are being abused, if we are honest. Ever greater numbers of children are coming with parents as insurance they'll get released into our interior, where they don't show up for hearings. They are coached as to what to say to asylum judges. What makes people think they are so above our laws? Years and years of doing nothing about it. Ditto for smugglers who have become so brazen and rich. Caravans, conveyors, rafts across the river. It needs to stop.
7
The current situation at the border is tragic. Many of the policies pursued by the Trump administration have made it worse, not better and any policy, or procedure that leads to our fellow human beings, regardless of where they are coming from, being treated as less than human, is totally unacceptable. As a parent, the child separation policy provoked a level of anger that I have rarely ever felt in my life. However, my own party, the Democrats, have not exactly provided strong leadership, either. The situation at the border would be an overwhelming crisis, no matter who was in the White House and our legislators need to come together to figure out a humane and reasonable way to deal with it NOW and not later, after everyone has triangulated the solution that provides the best political advantage. Trying to eliminate asylum altogether is not the solution, but nor are open borders and a free-for-all. The Dems need to recognize that at least half of Americans want a more orderly, robust and humane immigration system in the US. As many commenters have suggested and as we have seen in Europe and elsewhere, migration is only going to grow in the future. We need to get in front of it now.
A nation without a border is not a nation.
Pretty simple.
A border is the legal boundary between a nation’s citizens and other nation’s citizens.
Illegal crossing of borders for much of human history has been considered invasion.
Illegal things are not legal.
Enforcing laws against illegal acts (public drunkenness, marijuana distribution, trespassing, fair beating) isn’t always nice - but if that’s the law than it should be done.
13
Zero tolerance is a winning strategy for a robber baron who has a stone cold instinct for personally profiting at the expense of others.
The left's vision of illegal immigrants from a porous border is hard working people engaged in agriculture, construction, meat packing, hospitality etc., doing jobs that pay poorly and attract no one. If there is evidence to support this vision, it is easy to rubbish in the current post-truth era shaped inordinately by fear and loathing.
The right's vision is hordes of MS13 gangs, mooching off the system, displacing hard working Americans.
We get to zero tolerance quickly because Trump is instinctively realistic personally profiting from any situation. The situation thus: Republicans win with appeals of race, religion, and war; the've got nothing else (everything else is support for robber barons).
The situation is that we are talking about "illegal," a term hard to defend. Despite what democrats say, or think, the country heard them say they will open borders and let everyone in and give everyone free healthcare (and tuition). Even moderate Americans will find this ill-advised. I am sure some democrats think there is a workable plan somewhere - but most Americans will not believe it.
The raids, deportations will continue. Trump wins again if democrats demagogue over illegals. Zero tolerance wins.
2
How is it that it is seen as a new paradigm of zero tolerance when Obama deported more immigrants every year he was in office than Trump has in each of his years? How is it a new paradigm of zero tolerance when Trump's administration has allowed in more legal immigrants each year he has been in office than Obama did during each of his years?
Why does the left play so loosely or flat out ignore the facts?
Why does the left hate it when laws are actually enforced?
7
The better question is when did the democrats become the party of all immigration, all the time with no rules and free health care for all illegal immigrants? Trump's immigration policy is just like Clintons and Obama's. Its only opposed by the democrats because its Trump leading it and the democrats are even more unprincipled than the republicans.
11
This is nothing less than a failure of our humanity and our national character.
2
The Democrats must realize climate change and immigration are closely related. As the farming countries get warmer, their production of food goes down, already happening in Guatemala. Immigration must have a strong plan to prevent America from becoming one large, refugee camp.
There are not enough low paying jobs for the many immigrants that will be at our borders.
The wall could possibly be a 'not to popular' solution. although a necessary one. The wall could be part of a system that would directly help these countries with their problems, more education and security. The money we are giving to corporate, private, camps, really $ 775
a day for each of the thousands could help them immensely at their homes. A family of four for a month? Ridiculous? Maybe.
The world is definitely changing, we are not changing fast enough.
1
The squad is immature, but it's up to Pelosi to rally Democrats and get a credible candidate, a sensible candidate.
How messed up was it when all contenders raised their hand for "open borders"? They didn't say those words, but that's what it is at the root.
I hope Bernie would change his position on this.
The blame falls squarely on the squad if Trump wins reelection. They have pushed the party too far and they are coming off as a circus act.
6
With global change accelerating, there will be tens (perhaps hundreds of millions) of destitute people wandering the globe to get away from famine and violence. People are leaving Central America not only because of drugs and gangs but also because of the drying up of arable lands. If they had their choice, perhaps a billion destitute people would want to migrate to the United States. Where would we put them all? How do we plan to support them? There is a need for undocumented immigrants to work in our country in meat packing plants, as construction workers, as farm workers, in restaurant kitchens, as nannies, as landscapers, and on and on. But we are close to being filled up with these necessary workers. (And it is interesting that many of those opposed to immigration are the same ones who tend to hire them.) We cannot let every one in; we cannot have an open border; we cannot close our eyes to people breaking the law. We need a Democratic Administration that will develop a sane and humane admission policy. Many will be hurt but we cannot save the entire world. It all starts with working with the Organization of American States to fix conditions in these failing Central American countries that would enable there people to stay at home within a culture they prefer and a language they speak.
8
@JerryV Are we really "filled up" on workers? How do you know? The cafe near me had to shut down lunch service for weeks because they could not find anyone to work in the kitchen. There were no line cooks interested. Of course, this was because the wages, though above minimum wage, don't support costs of living in this city. But I see no evidence that we somehow have too many workers. There are no lines of people looking for work around here. To the contrary.
6
@JerryV Why don't we or someone go into Central America and quash the corruption, the gangs, and the drug trade? The world knows we never invade areas to hold them forever like the Russians and Chinese always have.
1
@LL, This is what I see in Manhattan. And I am seeing more homeless people here than I have ever seen in my life (although not as many as you seem to have in California). One of the issues (as you properly point out) is that these jobs do not pay enough for non-skilled people to live here and make a life. And restaurants here tend to close because of the impossibly high rents, not because of the shortage of workers. There is still an issue of legality vs. illegality. As Tom Friedman says, if people want to come into my home I would prefer to have them ring my doorbell first. If you have a better idea of how we should deal with these truly suffering people, please present it but open borders would be a non-starter.
2
The immigration policies of the Trump administration can best be characterized as bungled, cruel attempts to keep out Central Americans and Muslims from countries unfriendly to the US. The 7-country ban isn’t a Muslim ban because it includes only a small number of Muslim-majority countries. It isn’t a complete ban on citizens of countries that sponsor terrorism because it doesn’t include the biggest sponsor of all, Saudi Arabia.
The asylum process was created after Jewish refugees were turned away from US shores and for decades was mostly used by Soviet bloc dissidents. Modern asylum seekers are primarily motivated by a holistic desire for a better life, rather than a raw fear of persecution or death. Anyone who reaches the US border can be released to work by expressing a fear of returning home. Plans proposed by Democratic candidates are humane but will increase border traffic when aspiring migrants realize they won’t be deported later even if their cases are denied. Warren and Castro want to sweeten the pot by offering taxpayer-funded lawyers to asylum-seekers.
If Democrats want change in 2020, they must present a comprehensive immigration plan that balances humane treatment of asylum seekers and people in the US unlawfully with effective controls on immigration and cooperation with other countries to address the push factors driving people to come here. Otherwise, the long national nightmare will drag on for four more years.
5
The reality is that there are many businesses in the U.S. whose business plans rely on cheap undocumented labor - I still recall a piece in this paper in 2017 "California Farmers Backed Trump, but Now Fear Losing Field Workers" (most of whom are undocumented). The other reality is the United States with it's "invisible war" against the Sandinistas (which involved stationing troops in El Salvador), Iran-Contra, and supporting Manuel Noriega to name a few - destabilized the region to such a degree that has never been able to fully recover. I am not surprised by the masses of people fleeing the region to the U.S., I am surprised it didn't happen sooner. Yes, we need people to enter the country legally, but we also need to recognize our part in the mess we created in Central America and fix it - and one way to do that is to offer and grant asylum.
5
This article goes into specifics in how Homeland Security has changed into more of a Border Security agency under Trump but I was hoping it would examine Americans’ attitudes towards immigration. The fact is that illegal immigration has always been very unpopular among the voting public. For the past 30 years, due to the influence of the media, businesses which benefited from illegal immigration, and political correctness, there came to be a conflation of illegal immigration (which was always widely unpopular) with legal immigration (which the majority of Americans still support and cherish). People felt hoodwinked. Now we’ve gone to the other extreme where the border is going on lockdown. But one thing is clear— Trump won’t be losing votes if he brands himself as being against illegal immigration.
65
@SP
You've got it wrong. For the past 30 years, conservative propaganda outlets have convinced millions of Americans that there are hordes of illegal immigrants either taking their jobs or engaged in violent crime.
1
The immigration debate is driven by two opposing realities. On one hand, we need more workers to replace and care for aging Americans and to do the jobs American workers don't care to do. On the other hand is the need to decrease population.
This is a classic case of conflicting needs. The world can't sustain 7 to 10 billion people, but economies need to grow or they slip into depression. We need to find a way to reconcile these two realities if humans are to have a future on this Earth.
In the present day, these two realities present themselves as the crisis at the Southern border of the USA. In the future, all indications are that it will get worse.
This would be a tall order for a thoughtful president with a cooperative congress. Instead, we have the Three Stooges hanging paper.
What can possibly go wrong?
14
@mlbex its not true that population needs to grow to prevent recession because people can (and we have) become more productive (i.e. higer GDP per capita)
4
@mlbex
We need a lot more people who reject vaccinations, then we need a good plague. Darwinism would be at work, as those departing this earth would fall into the gullible and suspicious category.
3
@Ben, @Larry: The economy doesn't just need more people to do the work. As it is now, it needs more people to increase demand; to consume, to drive prices higher and so drive markets. That's the way it works now, and machines won't fix it. Machines can mitigate the labor end, but they don't invest or buy things.
My theoretical wise administration could see to it that AI is tasked to do the right things, and that the economy doesn't crash because investment and management zigged when they should have zagged. Then what you say will be true and we can lower our population without economic stress. But the Three Stooges won't get us there, and that is the point of my commentary.
Several have mentioned e-verify. First, Trump's based demanded this as part of any immigration deal. Second, Trump's FY 2019 budget mandated that every employer use the e-verify system. As for its status, I believe it will be included in the immigration measures Jared Kushner is going to propose.
21
@AACNY
Maybe it could be used at Mar-a-Lago and other Trump properties.
If only it weren't so complicated for employers to use, I mean.
1
And the biggest opponent to E-Verify is the US Camber of Commerce and small government types.
Most of these comments seem to endorse the Catch-22 of our asylum system: First we demand a proof of fear of violence that's impossibly high; then we appoint judges who deny their requests at a near 100% rate; and then we complain that these applicants "aren't following the law" when they try other means to escape.
This is the same sort of scenario that the sit-in demonstrators of the 1960's South faced. When they tried to enter segregated restaurants, they were accused of "breaking the law" by the same sort of people who today are demonizing those who cross the border illegally.
I would sincerely love for some of these commentators to face the sort of conditions that these asylum seekers are fleeing. It might give them a more humanistic perspective.
And if today's immigration quotas had been around 100 years ago, it's also likely that many of these commentators would have to be positing their comments from Italy, Poland or Russia, rather than from their safe homes in the United States.
19
@A. Moursund
//I would sincerely love for some of these commentators to face the sort of conditions that these asylum seekers are fleeing//
You can see them for yourself in the homeless encampments of LA, or the over 3000 communities who have lead water content twice that of Flint.
Immigration quotas did exist 100 years ago, by the way, as many people of Russian, Polish and Italian descent can tell you. Nobody was granted passage through any official port of entry just because they showed up on a boat, despite what Hollywood movie impressions you may have acquired.
6
If Americans dislike immigration now, just wait as the climate crisis worsens. In fact, many immigrants are already motivated by climate related environmental changes that have adversely affected their livelihoods including coffee farmers in Central America. But this is just the beginning, the extreme heat, drought and floods in South Asia may be indicators that some parts of the world are already becoming uninhabitable. In the meantime, our president rails against immigrants while denying, and in fact, sabotaging any efforts to address and attempt to mitigate climate change. One can only imagine that we are at the beginning of what will soon be the largest movement of people in the history of the world with all the accompanying social upheaval that implies.
57
@Durango2 In order for climate change to be effective we need the participation of the world. How about China and India joining us in the Green New Deal.
4
@Teri Mayer
Of course, the entire world should embrace a common effort to mitigate climate change. On the other hand, its a bit disingenuous to equate China and India's contribution to climate change with ours. It's remarkable that a country with less than a quarter of the population of either of these countries consumes as much or more. Additionally, part of China and India's contribution to Greenhouse gases is due to the products they make for consumption in America, and to the waste products we export to them for recycling.
1
It's not zero tolerance. It's controlled tolerance. For years the U.S. has had no reasonable controls. There is a backlash in Europe because their controls were not adequate. We're in that situation now. Controlling immigration will lead to an orderly program that can be guided by the President and/or Congress.
64
@Kent Kraus: When we get an orderly president, we will hopefully get an orderly process. I agree we need to control the pace of immigration, and only allow in the people we choose to let in.
7
@Kent Kraus--Some OTHER president, please. A REAL one, who has the approval of the majority of the people. This fake one does not.
1
Given the current low unemployment and critical need for immigrant label in such areas as agriculture, meat-packing & construction--preferably, to some, illegal immigrants, who can't make wage or other demands lest they be deported--and given the thicket of confusing regulations and past policies, letting most everyone stay and letting most everyone in seems sensible. But, the alternative--deporting almost everyone who's here and keeping most everyone out--has at least as much political traction, though hardly majority approval. This stalemate--and the resulting political squabble and related demagoguery--is likely to last decades, certainly long after the simple-minded but insidious Trump administration has gone.
10
@Bruce Martin. Huh? Just when wages are rising and employment is low, we should flood the labor market with immigrants? Nope.
4
"Because many of the senior, thoroughly qualified Republicans who would have filled out, say, a Jeb Bush administration refused — or were refused — jobs"
Jeb Bush lost, and lost badly. He was a well funded favorite of insiders, but they couldn't save him.
There is no reason we should have gotten a Jeb Bush Administration without Jeb Bush. That would be just doing the same things with the same people, but a different figurehead on top. that is not what elections are for.
While its true that Trump had no people and can't seem to do the job, that is not a reason to think that government ought to be handed over to Jeb Bush and friends.
18
I don’t get it. Of course I didn’t bother to read it but why would I? We have laws. We have people to enforce those laws. I don’t imagine a law is written to be read as “umm ok well maybe the law was broken maybe not”. Or “ Ok I’ll tolerate that part of breaking the law but not this part”. This is just foolish. If you break the law how in the world can there be tolerance? And now you know why it’s such a mess because of past tolerance. Zero tolerance is another way of saying don’t break the law. This is why the dems will lose 2020. It really is cut and dry.
203
@J Clark-
I don't get it either. When the Right discusses immigration policy, inevitably there is an argument for following the Rule of Law. However, when it comes to this President, the Rule of Law doesn't seem to apply.
26
@JK
What Rule of Law doesn't apply?
The non-existent one where he's supposed to release his tax returns and have prior experience in government before running for president?
The non-existent one where he's required to testify to the special counsel for no reason?
The non-existent one where he's required to be nice to reporters?
8
@J Clark Or, Trump won the last time because so many people “didn’t bother to read”.
It’s pathetic, frankly.
11
You imply Americans are against any mmigration. That's incorrect. People who immigrate legally have been doing in so a long time. The laws of this country are no different (in fact, there's places, such as Bermuda, which're much more restrictive) than any other.
Someone who enters illegally isn't just breaking our laws; they're also doing a huge disservice to those who follow the laws.
Something I've not seen mentioned in the Times; this group (Central & South Americans) are unlike any group. Whereas every wave of immigrants integrated, (this country's called the 'Great melting pot'), this group stays the most isolated - not learning English nor becoming part of the nation as a whole.
Don't take my word; there's accredited studies which back this up.
Contrary to early excuses ('they only take jobs Americams don't want'), this wave takes; financial benefits from the state, food, medical. They add financial weight without giving back. All of this without melding in. From their illegal entrèe, they make little, if any effort' for this.
I'm recall a recent NYTimes article about MS13 violence in Latin America which has so decimated a country, several women (employees of the government medical profession) want to immigrate for their lives.
One's quoted as wondering if she'd be 'allowed' admittance.
Imagine that; a person with, skills, who wants to legally immigrate - wondering, 'IF'.
They're the ones who should be focused on; the ones who contribute. That's the real story.
92
@U.N. Owen MS-13 has decimated Suffolk County in New York. Millions of dollars in resources is spent in the local judiciary in dealing with these teenagers and young adults. That’s what unchecked immigration brings.
9
@U.N. OwenThere is no legal immigration to the US unless you have lots of money or very high qualifications.
For all other ordinary working people, the only way to become a legal resident is marriage.
1
@U.N. Owen
They stay isolated and don’t assimilate BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU REFUSE TO WELCOME THEM INTO YOUR COMMUNITIES.
Those people are isolated in their small communities because if they venture into yours, they’re greeted with racist threats, and face the great potential of having a law enforcement agency called on them.
Guess what happens when a community does welcome asylum seekers? They enrich the community.
Weird, right? It turns out, when you treat HIMAN BEINGS with respect and dignity and give them resources instead of subjecting them to perpetual abuse, they become valuable members of the community.
3
How did we get to "zero tolerance"? Probably because we had almost 16 years of almost total tolerance for illegal immigration. Dubya was for amnesty from day one of his administration, and showed no real interest in enforcement until after the 2006 amnesty debates broke down. The chances of a "non violent" illegal alien being deported during the Obama administration were essentially zero, according to one of the top people in his DHS.
Deportation is a CIVIL remedy that sets things back to what they were before the illegal alien broke the law. It is not a punishment. Deportation is the removal pursuant to a judge's order AFTER the alien has had due process. Why should we "tolerate" letting people stay here who have had due process and who have final orders of removal? Should we absolve of consequences deadbeat dads (and moms) who ignore orders to pay child support?
143
@Ali. If it had only been 16 years. It's been decades. The greatest wave of immigration to this country has been since the poorly thought out and misapplied 1965 reform act combined with lax to know enforcement, which has lead to the chaos we face now.
33
@Ali... "The chances of a "non violent" illegal alien being deported during the Obama administration were essentially zero,"....So explain why when Obama left office illegal immigration into the U.S. was at a 40 year low? Sorry, unless you can rationalize that fact, your explanation makes no sense.
2
@W.A. Spitzer. The economy back then had more influence on immigration than most other issues. The 2008 crash deterred many immigrants, who were often single men looking for work. That has now changed. When your goal is to just get here and claim asylum, and your willing to use the kid or family to enhance your chances, the economy will have less impact on the numbers. Most are still economic migrants but they realize that asylum is the ticket now.
6
How? Because enough is enough. Even most Mexicans want to crack down on immigration into their own country because they now realize that most US citizens do not want open borders and odds are that Trump has a good chance of winning reelection. Yes, I know this reality is a dash of ice water in the faces of Dem liberals. Also, I think most Americans resent being called racists for merely disagreeing with the political views of The Squad. Trump was simply more emphatic about this than those who are somewhat more restrained. To be successful, the Dems need a candidate in the middle of the bell curve, not ten standard deviations to the left. Hillary was basically a moderate but Trump was elected president nevertheless. One would think the Dems would have learned something from this but I've come to realize that reality and practicality is not a characteristic of Dem liberals.
120
I like Thomas Friedman's comment: that he prefers when people ring the doorbell to his house -- or to his country -- rather than just barge in.
Most of the people barging in are not refugees seeking asylum but economic migrants using children as pawns.
My grandparents were economic migrants.
They rang the doorbell.
197
@B.
To use the metaphor you use: what if a serial killer is chasing someone and the doorbell is broken?
7
@B. I don't know how old you are, but if you are of my generation (I'm 67), your grandparents probably entered before the 1924 restrictive immigration act; no one had to ring the doorbell, the door was open. I also don't know your heritage, but if it is Northern European, even after 1924, 70% of the visas went to those immigrants. So much for an equitable historical system that welcomed all comers, regardless of ethnicity and country of origin.
5
@Bob Guthrie
Dear Bob,
A bit self-righteous considering your country's draconian immigration policy.
4
There are several factors leading to the immigration crisis. The two major religions of the world, Islam and Catholicism, continues to encourage large families, even when it leads to more poverty and starvation. In addition, US policy to refuse support for birth control in foreign aid makes this situation worse. THe second is dysfunctional governments that cannot provide safety and social services for their citizens.
Trump is a terrible person. But most of us, Democrats and Republicans, do not want open borders. As a country, we cannot solve the problems of the world by letting anyone and everyone in. This policy is in the process of destroying the EU and it could have the same effect on the US.
At what point does one stop pulling survivors onto a lifeboat on the verge of sinking?
90
@Philip Yes -- I say if the Church eased up on its yoke on Central Americans, they could see what options they have for birth control and make informed decisions. They could afford to live in their homeland, educate the young they do have.
5
Thoughtful comment other than swipe at Trump. Unnecessary, and untrue
3
@Philip You are right, at what point do you stop pulling survivors onto a lifeboat? Seems that the Dems have no foresight. That is something to worry about later when LATER is too late.
4
Both Democrats and Republicans bear some blame in failing to enact comprehensive immigration reform, as the 2016 NYT article linked in this article makes clear. However, most of the blame falls on Republican hardliners (like Stephen Miller) whose intransigence killed all efforts. Now, unfortunately, those same Republicans are in charge.
Comprehensive reform is entirely possible. We, as Americans, must insist our representatives in Congress get to work and get it done. We must also realize that no one will get everything they want and stop refusing any compromise. Between Stephen Miller and "open borders" there is plenty of room for sensible solutions.
No matter what one's position is on immigration, all Americans should be alarmed by the sheer incompetence of Trump and his administration, by Trump's failure to acknowledge the rule of law, by his xenophobia and cruelty, and by the fact that staffers with insufficient experience are now running one of the country's largest and most important agencies.
6
@JB Yre,we must insist our representatives in Congress get to work and get it done. Congress, which includes the democrats, are getting a free ride from the media on this one
Voters want simple solutions to complex problems. They are unwilling to spend time and intellect on the fine points of asylum or overstaying legal visas or a legal path to citizenship or helping our neighbors devastated by our need for drugs. President Bush tried comprehensive immigration policy reform and ended up with an irascible and irrational tea party that gave birth to Trumpism and sent the Republican establishment back where they came from. There is no simple solution. We can elect simpletons with simple slogans and simplistic ideas for generations and we'll be right back where we came from.
38
@Lon Newman
Well-said!
@Lon Newman
Finally someone with a brain. And yes, it is the USA's demand for illegal drugs (22 million users per month) that is driving the violence in Central and South America. Until we accept responsibly for this, nothing will improve down there.
2
@Brad
Turn on, tune in, drop out!
Tables turned.
Why won't Trump do the one thing that would do the most to stop illegal immigration--mandate e-verify? As long as employers keep hiring illegal workers, they will keep coming. E-verify would make it impossible for every undocumented person to work in this country to work, opening up all those jobs for citizen-workers. Without work, those here illegally would lose their homes, be unable to buy food and would have no choice but to return to their home countries.
Why aren't the Trump fans chanting "E-verity!" at his rallies? Why haven't Republicans in Congress already passed a law mandating its use? Trump and the Senate won't mandate e-verify because business groups would be upset. Employers insist they can't find workers in certain industries, and so the government allows them to continue hiring illegal workers even as ICE carries out its raids on people's homes. Trump and the Republicans know full well that employers continue to hire illegal workers, but instead of focusing on the employers, they choose to go after the workers.
If E-verity was mandated, ICE raids should continue, but on businesses. Employers found not to be using e-verify should be heavily fined, or even jailed. The first raids should be at all Trump-owned properties and businesses--as president he should set the standard.
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@Ms. Pea. It has to be at the federal level. Cali for example, has made it MORE difficult to use everfy.
3
@Ms. Pea
Yes, but one could also ask why has not a single democratic presidential candidate mentioned this? Why are THEY not yelling e-verify when asked if they would grant illegal immigrants free healthcare? Why isn't this their campaign slogan? Why, when asked what the first thing they would do in office is, not a single one said e-verify?
@Lexi. Hard to see them calling for everify or anything that might deter illegals when they all wanted to decriminalize illegal entry and give them free health care. Those are enticements to more illegal entry.
By failing to address the need for secured borders, the Democrats are as much to blame for the current state of affairs as Trump and Republicans.
Taking the high moral ground (well, a certain idea of it, anyway) is a cop-out if you don't fix the problem.
45
@Allen The Democrats are not taking the high moral ground. They are taking the way they think will get them elected. Hard to understand why they think Central Americans will be voting. I have not heard one constructive idea out of this big Democratic crew other than open borders, decriminalize sneaking into our country, and providing free health care. My God,, American's don't have free health care. It has gone way over the edge with the desperation to seem more left than most true leftists. They are opportunitists seekign votes.
5
@Allen
So, whatever the predicate, it justifies separating families and putting babies in jail and toddlers in cages?
It's worth noting the related "Interpreter" story that compares US policy to what Europe and Australia are doing. At least the US isn't sending asylum seekers to remote Pacific islands to await a decision on their claims, and the few individuals who drown in the Rio Grande are dwarfed by the thousands who have drowned in the Mediterranean trying to get to Europe.
I don't see protestors in front of European or Australian embassies objecting to these countries' much worse treatment of asylum seekers. But of course, none of these countries have Trump, and Trump is the real issue that is being protested in this country.
29
@J. Waddell. Australia's response to thousands showing up has basically cut off the dangerous flow of people by boat. The Australian public backs these measures. Their government is interested in what's best for Australia not just the immigrants like ours (at least the democrats).
5
I feel as a liberal that this issue may lose democrats the presidency. Absolutely, DREAMers should be protected, there should be a better legal process for immigration, there should be protections for qualifying refugees and asylum-seekers, and there should not ever be family separation or detention centers with the conditions we’ve seen on the borders. But the message that democrats are sending is that all immigrants who wish to come in should, without process. We need to have an orderly, legal process to gain entry and citizenship and establishing that should be the goal. Not doing away with it entirely.
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@E
Democrats are missing a great opportunity with Trump. He's not an ideologue. He's not beholden to a party or its big donors. He likes to make deals.
Trump signaled that he would make a deal on DACA, etc., but Pelosi chose to foreclose all other issues to stonewall the wall. Was it really worth it?
If democrats could get over their fixation on the wall, Trump would be a great partner. Just look how well prison reform went.
4
@AACNY
FYI. If there is anyone who has a "fixation on the wall" -- it's Donald Trump.
1
Tom Friedman clarified things for me yesterday. When people come to visit, you expect them to ring the doorbell. When they just walk into your house without your permission, that's something entirely different. I can appreciate that there is considerable danger for those living in central America. What makes them unwilling to fight for their country? We now have or will have shortly, 10,000 American soldiers at the border providing "support services". Would it not make better sense to deploy them to central America to assist in rooting out the crime there?
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@Larry The US Military and our CIA advisors have been the ones orchestrating coups on democratically elected governments in Central America for the last 70 years.
Pretty sure we will not be welcomed as liberators.
30
@SMK Right you are, and just to be perfectly clear: these previous U.S. interventions are intimately connected to the long-standing Central American issues of dysfunctional governments favoring their cronies, American corporations and American 'foreign policy imperatives' over the welfare of their own people, thus making the U.S. a major player in the problems-something we are loath to address publicly. Educated conservatives have always understood this (John Kelley, for example), but culpability and compassion are not good politics for Republicans.
1
@Larry
Over half a million immigrants fight for America. If you have not done so that's OK but over half a million immigrants or children of immigrants from minority groups have done so.
2
I doubt the honesty of anyone's views on immigration when their focus is solely on the immigrants, whether as villains or victims, with no faulting of U.S. employers who benefit from immigrants working illegally in the U.S.
The Immigration Act passed in 1986 gave a 1.) pathway to citizenship to immigrants in the country illegally (often referred to as amnesty) AND 2.) controls and sanctions on employers to prevent hiring cheaper, vulnerable workers who were not citizens, had a green card, etc. The employer part of the Act was never enforced.
Anyone who is serious about reducing illegal immigration and doing so without racial profiling should be speaking up loudly for a controls and sanctions on employers. E-Verify, a non-mandated system to verify the right to work in the U.S.. does not screen by race and should be mandated.
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This is common sense, if they cannot obtain employment they would not come. I know of many places in Oklahoma that hire illegal immigrants, we used to call and say that immigration was on the way to watch hundreds of people scatter out of the building (chicken processing plant).
Until we hold employers accountable illegals are going to continue to flock here, the president has hired illegals for years.
Big business has stopped any meaningful immigration reform. I believe there are several bills that Mitch has blocked.
4
@Judy
Some employers have been prosecuted for hiring undocumented immigrants. The reason more aren't prosecuted is the employers can claim they did not not they weed hiring illegal immigrants because they presented fake ID documents. This makes cases difficult to prosecute. This is why Trump has asked Congress to make E-verify nationwide.
5
@William Case
Pres. Trump needs to be saying and tweeting about E-Verify as often as he speaks or tweets about immigrants, etc., if he is at all serious about any controls or sanctions on employers who hire illegal immigrants (like himself). I don't think that is going to happen but I'd love to be proved wrong.
1
I doubt the honesty of anyone's views on immigration when their focus is solely on the immigrants, whether as villains or victims, with no faulting of U.S. employers who benefit from immigrants working illegally in the U.S.
The Immigration Act passed in 1986 gave a 1.) pathway to citizenship to immigrants in the country illegally (often referred to as amnesty) AND 2.) controls and sanctions on employers to prevent hiring cheaper, vulnerable workers who were not citizens, had a green card, etc. The employer part of the Act was never enforced.
Anyone who is serious about reducing illegal immigration and doing so without racial profiling should be speaking up loudly for a controls and sanctions on employers. E-Verify, a non-mandated system to verify the right to work in the U.S.. does not screen by race and should be mandated.
9
Sounds like Nielsen should've been gone long ago. The way to stop illegal immigration is to stop illegal immigration. Completely. With prejudice.
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@RJ, so when is Melania being deported, as she worked illegally while under tourist visa? When is Trump being prosecuted for mass hiring illegal construction workers on his building sites and hiring illegal workers at his resorts?
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@RJ
And, again, the law and order party breaks whatever law they want, with the most immoral, illegal President in history as their champion. Nielsen does the right thing and is fired for it, Trump wants people to break the law for him and then pardon away. That's tyranny, not democracy.
20
@RJ--Trump and the Republicans could change what's happening at the border if they chose to. But, they need immigration as an issue for the election, so they don't. They could easily change our immigration laws. They could mandate that anyone wanting to immigrate to the US would have to apply in advance at a US consulate and wait until they receive their paperwork before coming here. The law could authorize the immediate return of anyone who arrives at our borders and has not applied for entrance in advance. They could remove asylum as an option in all cases.
It's up to Congress to do that, but they show no inclination so far and Trump does nothing but rant and rave, offering no solutions. Americans who want to stop the immigration crisis need to pressure Trump and the Congress to integrate 'zero tolerance' into law.
7
This pathetic excuse for a President lacks compassion towards anyone outside of his immediate family, and even that is somewhat questionable. His flunkies, like Nielsen and Sanders, are no more than opportunists who long to please the boss no matter the level of pain inflicted on others and shamefulness attained. They all have effectively ended their careers. May their careers and the entire GOP rest in peace.
21
@Michael--"Compassion" is for the courts to decide. Illegal aliens get their chance to make a case to stay here, and when they can't do it, they're ordered deported. No point in even having due process if we don't respect the results of that process--even when it goes against the claimant.
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@Ali So I am guessing you are all for putting people in cages and no soap because they didn't due process was not yet conducted. No humanity until the courts decide!
1
U.S. immigration law does not say some illegal immigrants should be removed or deported. It says all "illegal aliens" should be removed or deported.
U.S. asylum law says asylum seekers can be turned back if they enter the United States from countries that offer asylum.
U.S. asylum law states, “If the Attorney General determines that the alien may be removed, pursuant to a bilateral or multilateral agreement, to a country (other than the country of the alien's nationality or, in the case of an alien having no nationality, the country of the alien's last habitual residence) in which the alien's life or freedom would not be threatened on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion, and where the alien would have access to a full and fair procedure for determining a claim to asylum or equivalent temporary protection, unless the Attorney General finds that it is in the public interest for the alien to receive asylum in the United States.”
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@William Case
Amazing how Democrats ignore that part.
8
@William Case
Texas Democratic Rep. Joaquin Castro has proposed legislation that would ban federal legal terms, "alien" and "illegal alien" from federal government's usage. He wants to replace those words with the terms, “foreign national” and “undocumented foreign national.” He believes they are offensive to illegal immigrants and dehumanizes them.
It's not a leap to believe he also believes this about the laws related to those terms. Democrats just don't want immigration laws enforced. Period.
7
We are not at zero tolerance, only Trump is.
He's using immigrants as a scapegoats to blame all the problems of the nation on, where the true problem is Trump and the fact that he was never qualified to do the job in the first place.
When you're sick you go to a doctor, not a lawyer and when you want to run a country you get a true public servant and not a rotten businessman.
38
@BTO--We have courts to decide if illegal aliens get to go or stay. We have a million immigration fugitives who had due process, most of them under previous administrations, and who have ignored court orders. Nothing outrageous in enforcing the laws. Try not paying child support and see how quickly you get hauled in.
2
This type of swings in immigration policy is not new ie in this case from liberal to restrictive and other times vice versa.
An example of the extremes are our first "illegals" black slaves who came over circa 1830 when the slave trade was abolished, restrictive immigration from China to the liberal policy of letting any cubans in 30 yrs. ago.
Demagogues, social engineering types on the extremes will always be here.
The trick is to call them out in favor of a fairer, more common sense policy that a majority of Americans can agree upon, not the extremes.
10
@Paul
Slaves are not immigrants. And it was in 1807, not 1830 that importation of new slaves, not the slave trade, was prohibited. But as I said, slaves, either before or after 1807 or 1808 when the act took effect, did not "come over", they were kidnapped.
By your logic the liberal stance in 1807 would have been to continue allowing the further importation of slaves. It wasn't. That's what happens when we use torturous analogies.
@Lilo-Thank you for your reply.
1-I used the word circa 1830 to cover myself.
2-It is a matter of semantics. The slave trade was abolished in the British empire and elsewhere before slavery was abolished. The fact being slaves brought over after the period after 1807 were technically America's first illegal "immigrants" albeit against their will.
3-The point I was trying to make is that illegal immigrants ran the gamit from slaves to open arms like the Cuban airlift.
4-History has shown us the extremes are wrong, bringing in slaves or prohibiting Chinese were wrong, open borders with Cubans because of political PC correctness emptied Fidel's mental hospitals and prisons.
5-#4 is my logic not framing history to prove an extreme position left or right.
2
New York sophisticates, living in bubbles, like to write about what a pity it is that Americans are so afraid of "foreigners". All I know is that MS-13 is now confirmed to be operating in my hometown. I also know that about 180 people die every day in this country from opioid overdoses. Many of those killer drugs came from our neighbor nations to the south, and China, transported by illegal immigrants. Here's a simple sociological analysis of the country's attitudes toward the undocumented: we are sick and tired of the mayhem, murder, and crime. If the Federal government can ever get a handle on all of that, then you will see America changing its mind about all immigration. But while the chaos remains, chaos enhanced by our lack of coherent, well-defined, logical immigration policies, expect Americans to remain sick and tired of the mayhem, murder, and crime.
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@It's a Global Drug Economy
The opioids come from doctors, not gangs. You're just wrong. They sold enough opioids for everyone in this nation to be overdosed, it was that bad. Deregulation run amok.
I'm sure your town has problems, but other nations have drug problems without the murder problems. It's the guns, not the drugs. People are taking the drugs willingly, stop the prohibition on casual drug use and reenact the oversight that the Republicans eliminated in their zeal for profits.
22
@It's a Global Drug Economy I think it‘s the small town folks of middle America that are living in bubbles but keep whining about hardships. Come to NY and look around in some of the poorer neighborhoods and they might actually be too scary for you.
4
But the mayhem and chaos are in the White House and Congress, where no one will do the hard work toward a major policy paradigm shift; most departments in our government have missions that intersect with immigration policy. What are our labor needs projected to be? In what sectors will we need additional workers? How can we boost our work visa programs to let workers go back & forth, thus helping to strengthen home economies as well? How can we decrease the backlog for green cards and decrease the number of undocumented, who could thus pay income taxes, hold drivers licenses and keep SS solvent in this wave of boomer retirees.
Here in Va we dont have crime, chaos and mayhem from immigration. Salacious stories on Fox get folks so riled up. Ask a Fox worrier to name one instance where an actual illegal has personally caused them harm. The fear isn't based on reality.
BTW, Bumpass is a real place in VA. check the zip code, NYT! it's not a cuss word.
2
How did we get here? President Trump represents the worst of ourselves. After all, we elected him. It astonishes me how Trump can connect with a swath of this nation that is white, racist, and xenophobic. I guess I never realized how deeply entrenched racism is in this country. I travel from New York City to Myrtle Beach, SC every week and I can tell you that those two places are like two different worlds. It’s like a microcosm of the country. NYC is a melting pot of different people, liberal to the core. SC is a bastion of conservatism and the front line of Trump supporters. On July 4th I saw guys marching on the beach with Trump flags and they got a standing ovation along the way. It’s going to be an ugly election season to say the least.
29
I am not surprised at all. I’m a legal immigrant who has lived in this country for more than 40 years. When I was in college, working in retail on my summer break, a store manager stood right next to me & started singing “....it’s no fun being an illegal alien.” She sang for several minutes. When I pointed out to her that I am here legally, she replied that she was “just kidding”. I kept quiet & continued working. Sadly, racism & xenophobia is an intrinsic part of American history. Introspection is a very difficult thing to do on a personal level; imagine having to do it as a nation. I can only hope we get a reprieve in 2020 from Trump & his ilk. Sadly though, there will be others waiting in line to assume Trump’s mantle.
18
@Mike L--It's going to be ugly when you have Antifa protesters tearing down the American flag at an ICE office as they recently did in Aurora, and replacing it with the Mexican flag. Funny how those images didn't make the national news.
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@H
Personal anecdotes can work both ways. I know a family that lost a relative to an illegal immigrant who was driving drunk.
3
If you weren't born here or didn't receive permission to enter and stay this is not your country. You have no right to be here. It is unfashionable to point that out but it's nevertheless true.
239
Maybe we should start with a certain Slovenian who at first entered illegally, then obtained a “special talent” visa ( gimme a break. Should we speculate what her talents were? ) and then proceeded to add on her extended family, who, as far as I can tell, make zero contributions to the US economy or talent pool.
17
@Lilo, no this is a lie, and extremely hateful and dangerous. There is nothing in any established U.S. law that someone not born in the U.S. has less protection under the law.
7
@Lilo
And what about asylum seekers?
3
"she would meet with British officials on counterterrorism matters"
SO the Trump administration continues to divert resources and attention from actual national security to rev up its immigrant-hating base by "protecting" us from children and their parents.
10
@Lynn--Meanwhile, processing those children and their parents diverts resources from drug interdiction and other border security.
2
The USA is getting to zero tolerance on immigration because in one lifetime(70 years) the USA has added 170 million people to the US population, most of which was immigrant- driven. This tsunami of humanity has degraded the quality of life: more expensive housing, a surplus of labor depressing wages, environmental degradation, and in some instances immigrants receiving more public services than citizens. Only an antiquated immigrant ideology has delayed zero tolerance this long
180
Then why is it that the legislative branch has not passed comprehensive immigration reform, a rational and humane approach that will impede illegal immigration and promote legal immigration? Why is it that the judicial branch has not adopted policies to prosecute employers, site managers, company presidents and boards of directors of corporations that provide the jobs and hire illegal residents? This “zero tolerance” attempt at the border is a fools errand similar to poking a finger in the leak in the dike when the dam needs extensive repair or replacement!
19
@Paul Loeffler
I believe the term "comprehensive immigration reform" should be abandoned. It's become an ill-defined behemoth and waiting for its passage is now just an excuse for not taking immediate action.
The closest our country will come to "comprehensive" immigration reform is with Trump. Democrats should forget the wall and reach a deal.
22
@AACNY
You mean Trump should forger the wall and reach a deal. He’s the one pushing for the wall.
1
Most Americans welcome LEGAL immigrants, but do not want ILLEGAL immigrants. They recognize that the US cannot afford (or choose not) to support our own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al., and that they and other US taxpayers cannot possibly support the hundreds of millions of foreigners who would like to come here.
US laws allow foreigners to seek entry and citizenship. Those who do not follow these laws are in this country illegally and should be detained and deported; this is policy in other countries, too.
The cruelty lies not in limiting legal immigration, or detaining and deporting illegal immigrants, or forcing those who wish to enter the US to wait for processing. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is encouraging parents to bring their children on the dangerous trek to US borders and teaching the parents how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, etc. Indeed, many believe bringing children on such perilous journeys constitutes child abuse.
No other nation has open borders, nor should the US.
153
@Mon Ray
Agree entirely -- these all are great points up an down. But tell this to the Democrats running for office, they want to provide free health care to illegal immigrants. I live in Florida, a state that has starved its schools to the point kids suffered in heat with the AC broke down due to lack of money for basic maintenance. But now, we must take in Central American children who speak no English, most never been in a class in their lives and as nice as that sounds, it will take from children who are rightfully enrolled in those schools.
12
A little bit we resent that people flaunt our laws to illegally sneak into our country while ignoring the legal process to achieve the same result.
Maybe the places where these people come from have no laws or law enforcement but that is not the case here and if these people want to come here and become Americans they'll have to get with the program, our program. If they cannot do that then America is not for them.
100
"Flout" the law, not flaunt it. But mostly I agree with you.
4
The article should be titled "How America Got to Zero Tolerance on Illegal Immigration." I think the majority of US citizens are okay with people coming here legally. The illegal immigration that is costing the taxpayers millions is taking away from programs that benefit our country and making our country less secure. Our political establishment has ignored this problem for years and everyone is tired of it. No other country puts up with what the U.S. does. Go to any other country without the proper process and you will end up in jail---much worse than the ones the Democrats are crying about.
196
@Hello
"No other country puts up with what the U.S. does. "
And you know this how?
3
@Hello
Absolutely! The people crying "send her back!" at Trump rallies (referring not only a U.S. citizen but a U.S. CONGRESSWOMAN) obviously see the distinction.
1
@Hello
Dear me,
In my 63 years here on earth I have lived on 5 continents and visited over 50 countries, not all but a very sizable sampling and I can tell you, Hello is right based on my rather extensive experience.
Doesn't matter if you are in Africa or Europe, Central Asia or the Far East no other countries will allow you in past immigrations without a visa. Full Stop. I forgot to mention that this holds true in South America as well.
9
Sorry, but the premise of this article is untrue. I work in immigration and we are as busy as ever processing LEGAL immigrants, issuing green cards and naturalizing LPRs to become US citizens. If one qualifies the process is not long or difficult. There is a big difference between people coming legally to the US and following our laws and the immigration process and those coming illegally...it is wrong to conflate the two.
328
@Kelly That is NOT true. I have been in this country for FIFTEEN years and have qualified and been approved for a green card, but am still waiting in line after being approved 5 years ago. Estimates for my wait are between 17 and SEVENTY years—and that doesn’t even get me to citizenship, which will be similarly long and arduous. I have multiple graduate degrees from tier 1 US institutions, own property and have started a business.
The immigration process has continually and unrelentingly been crushing my soul and restricting my physical movement, my access to career opportunities and my ability to see my family. I stand with the undocumented immigrants and asylees 100% because despite all the privilege, luck and hard work, even I am not able to make it through the immigration system in the US.
And the system is not “broken”, it is working exactly as it was designed to. I suggest those interested in historical sentiment towards immigrants and the development of current immigration laws read Ian Haney Lopez’s book “White by Law” to understand the country’s laws better.
50
Amen! And this again is why the NYTimes is one of the primary reasons trump is - and will for some time - be president.
21
@Kelly What is the purpose of the intentional cruelty?
15
I’m not sure what is wrong with enforcing the law. People who come here illegally are breaking the law. People who ignore deportation orders are breaking the law. I am a Democrat but I don’t agree with any of the candidates on this issue.
Their insistence on allowing anyone into the country who can sneak across the border and then showering them with free healthcare and other benefits while citizens in the rust belt and other places struggle to make ends meet will ensure an overwhelming victory for Donald Trump.
Why is this so hard to understand?
306
@N
It is very hard to understand. There is definitely a sense of human decency driving the desire to protect illegal immigrants. I know my own church, the Catholic Church, has always been very vocally in support of illegal immigration. Many people take this to heart. I respect their judgement.
There is also a pervasive political need to oppose Trump. This has caused all kind of aberrant positions on immigration. For example, using pictures of caged immigrants under Obama and attributing them to Trump. Claiming "walls are immoral". Opposing politically and legally everything the president proposes.
15
@N Yes, it seems like the "standard" progressive answer is to let people stay here who entered illegally but evaded the government long enough.
DACA should have been passed (since there was a cut off date) and then the border enforced. A wall will do nothing. Separating children from their parents is abhorrent. But come here with a bogus asylum claim? Sorry, go back home. Asylum isn't for coming here for economic opportunity.
8
@AACNY
..." For example, using pictures of caged immigrants under Obama and attributing them to Trump".
Personally, I don't know when those photos were taken.
But how do YOU know that those photos were taken during the Obama administration?
You either are the photographer, a border patrol agent, an investigative journalist or a caged immigrant yourself...
4
The American people are tired of paying for the increasing welfare state in the US.
They certainly do not want to increase their payment even more for people from abroad.
We need common sense measures. Enough about "family reunification" if that family cannot support themselves here, including medical care. Enough of taking people in who are not truly persecuted. Economic hardship is not asylum.
172
@Ny Surgeon
Wonder if the American people are tired of paying for the welfare of huge corporations and the wealthy elite who fail to pay their fair share? Tired of that? Gosh, Amazon paid ZERO taxes in 2018--the wealthiest corporation in the world. Ny Surgeon--are YOU tired of that?
8
@Ny Surgeon
True, welfare recipients are multitudes. But what is really costing us more is the .01%, that's who the government works for.
5
As far as I can tell, the greatest amount of welfare goes to the top of our society, not the bottom.
5
Nielsen couldn't conceive of how difficult this would be ,far beyond what she was capable of at the time and we are not there yet. Things are better than in 2018,but the problem is a good 2 decades in the making.Every President had pushed it under the rug. The old laws must be re made and at least for now ,the word is out to not attempt to break into the US unlawfully .
23
we are all going to answer for the immorality of this treatment of our fellow human beings. This is our original sin.
25
Sorry; not religious.
In fact, just as a person (rich or poor) who steals food fin a show is breaking the law, so, too, are these people - they're criminals.
The immigration laws of this nation are no different than (in fact, they're actually more lenient than some) most other countries, so this argument about the U.S. doing something different, in terms of immigration policy, is incorrect
Additionally, the wave is only one direction; from South to the north. There's no - ZERO - Illegal entrants coming from North to South.
You think they should be allowed? I'd let them; only if YOU (and others, like-minded) were made to fully foot their bills. Your wouldn't last more than a minute.
This country allows freedoms - as long as those don't impinge, hurt others, so, if you wish, go pray. Most of us however, have had enough of this breaking of our laws.
35
The incompetence of Donald Trump is breathtaking. The immorality of separating families is un-American. The silence of Republican officeholders is shameful. The timidity of Democratic officeholders is disappointing, demoralizing, and frustrating.
The easiest fix is the removal of Trump.
The easiest fix is the removal of Trump.
The easiest fix is the removal of Trump.
59
@Hank Linderman
The problem is the entire Republican party, not just Trump.
They continue to block effective immigration reform, do not want to stop the gun running south that drives people north in fear of gangs, and stopped funding investments in improving lives in Central America so that they can continue to gain votes by demagoguing on immigration.
America's entire history has been that of immigration-driven greatness.
The entire Republicans party has turned its back on our ancestry in order to hide their destructive pro=wealthy donor/anti-middle class policies behind a wall of race-baiting xenophobia. [Remember that Republican Boehner wouldn't even let the House vote on an immigration reform bill that had passed the Senate, which Obama would have signed and thus would have been law by now]
12
@Hank Linderman: There are many reasons for removing Trump from office IMHO. Zero tolerance of illegal crossing of our borders is not one of them. A better solution to such scofflaws, including those who try to justify their lawlessness by bringing children with them, is to put them aboard passenger ships and return them immediately to the closest native country port. Where there is no such port, secured bus or train transportation might be provided from the closest port to the closest border crossing to their homeland.
27
@Hank Linderman
Judging from what the Democratic presidential candidates are proposing, we could see double the number of illegal immigrants crossing our border. The concept of moral hazard is lost on them.
Re-electing Trump is the only way to avoid the open border policies they are advocating.
6
This article suggests that it's somehow wrong that DHS is paying so much attention to the border, but that's where the problem is. That's where the hordes of people sneaking across the border and presenting bogus asylum claims are coming from. If flotillas of ships carrying fake refugees were landing on the coast of Maine then that would warrant putting more resources up there.
200
@KM Please site your facts on how the "hordes of people sneaking across the border" are an actual threat to homeland security versus radical far-right extremists. Thanks.
69
@KM If the goal is to reduce illegal immigration, implement e-verify and require that people offering jobs hire legal citizens. The problem is not the border; it's the available jobs. If people knew they couldn't get jobs, they wouldn't come. The border drama, and the wall, is just theatrics
52
@MM Please do a search of the NY Times for "MS-13" and read about the most recent arrest in Los Angeles of over 20 members, most of whom were here illegally. This just happened a day or two ago.
57