What's next ... tanks in the streets ... ?
... oopsie.
61
My direct ancestor, Thomas Stone of Maryland, signed the Declaration of Independence 243 years ago. With this document, we threw off the yoke of tyranny from a king.
Today, our president is acting like a king. He thinks he can unilaterally rule by decree. He is defying the Supreme Court. He has defied Congress. He tramples upon our Constitution on a daily basis.
My ancestor is rolling over in his grave.
59
Better the military is used in a parade in DC than out across the globe killing innocent Iraqi's, Iranians, Syrians, Yemenites, Sudanese, Libyans, Serbs, Croatians, Afghani's…oh, right. We're still doing that, aren't we…
16
Justice Department?
Trump's captive white-shoe personal law firm.
26
This is a good thing
7
You have to be brain-dead to actually believe that anyone who is undocumented is going to identify themselves as a non-citizen in this manner. It should be obvious to everyone else that they will not identify and not be counted as a "person" in the USA. Exactly the intention.
If continued to be left unfettered, there is no corner of American society that will not be torn to shreds by Trump.
Americans are used to taking their government for granted. Many are just ignorant of the damage that Trump is doing to the foundations of American society and its institutions or are too busy with their day to day lives to care. This is a big mistake.
32
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
This is OUR government. We are the sovereigns. We own this. It's up to us to keep it or lose it. The politics of the moment must not stop us from demanding that our Elected Representatives honor their oath of office. We cannot rest.
To say no to impeachment means we and they are complicit in the corruption and criminality so clearly defined in Mueller's report. Our Republic and the Rule of law are under attack. Call the U.S. Capitol Switchboard at 202-224-3121 today! We must make our voices heard as if our future depends on it...because it does.
31
Trump has a July 4th parade for himself based on patriotism so he can be like Putin and Kim...and from a guy who dodged the draft. Questions on citizenship have no basis for being on a census form. A complete hypocrite whose policies are based on Twitter Tweets. This country under Trump is becoming a banana republic dictatorship. Republicans and McConnell need to wake up and do their job.
21
I think it’s hilarious that so-called progressives are suddenly quoting the constitution to support their attempts at gerrymandering. It was never intended that non-citizens... millions of whom are illegal aliens...be included in the count for congressional seats.
The entire argument against the citizenship question is mendacious. You know it...and I know it.
26
This is such an easy case for the DOJ to win! I’m amazed that even Barr gave up so easily. The Chief Justice signaled the winning argument when he summarized the defect: the Secretary of Commerce and the DOJ lied about the reason for the citizenship question. That defect can’t be remedied by telling a new lie. But it CAN be remedied by telling the truth! I know it must be hard for the Trump administration to wrap their heads around truth-telling, but all they need to do to win this case is acknowledge they added the citizenship question for purposes of partisan gerrymandering. With their decision in Rucho v. Common Cause, the Supremes have just stripped themselves of the power to weigh in on partisan gerrymandering. They will have no choice but to allow it. They can probably win any future voter suppression cases the same way: just say you did it for partisan advantage!
6
The toddler had a tantrum when his staff and SCOTUS said no, so now they will capitulate. There are no adults in the administration or half of Congress.
16
Impeachment will be next if the Pretend King Trump orders any government agency to commit a crime. The Justice Department will lose it's credibility and the Census will have maybe 30% participation. I dare him to do it. This is impeachment grounds. Go ahead, let us finally have our day in court. When under investigation for impeachment other crimes come out is what is important. Great news on our favorite day of the year too.
9
The Trump Administration may have already violated the U.S. Supreme Court's and Judge Hazel's orders. Every 10 years, when the Census is sent to all residential addresses, some households receive a "special" Census form which has far more questions on it than the "regular" Census form
That "special" Census form has already been sent out by the Dept. of Commerce to some households in the United States. My adult daughter received that form in the mail about a week ago. The cover letter from the Dept of Commerce demanded that she fill it out and quickly return it, or complete the form online and send it in electronically.
That "special" Census Form demanded that for for everyone living in the household they disclose:
(1) Place of birth;
(2) Date of birth;
(3) Citizenship;
(4) A massive number of other invasive questions which, in our family's view, invade my adult daughter's privacy.
One of the very first questions on that "special" Census form asks whether my daughter is Hispanic, and if she is also demands to know from which country or U.S. territory she is from.
Then the "special" Census form goes into even more detail, in terms of focusing on ethnicity. One question was straight out of "Ancestry Dot Com" or "23 and Me" territory. It required that my daughter disclose which ethnicity she is. The form gave "Italy" as an example
The Department of Commerce form states, without citations to any case law that they are empowered by law to ask all of their rude questions.
19
From our Declaration of Independence:
...The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.
- He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good...
10
With that message, Trump unwitting communicated his definition of, "Fake News," which is any news that he does not like. When the Cabinet secretary in charge of the Census makes a statement about how he intends to proceed with the census, that's news. If that Cabinet then changes his mind or gets other instructions from the president, that's called more news. There's nothing fake about any of it, except using Trump's definition of, "Fake News," which, as I said, is simply news he does not like.
9
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." - David Frum
And, apparently, when the Constitution becomes inconvenient, they will trample upon it.
27
What harmful, injurious action to our country must the President first perform before the Republican Senate takes action to stop him? Is retaining senate majority to pack our courts, restricting voter turnout through coordinated state by state legislative initiatives or reversing Roe v Wade more important than the cumulative damage he’s done already? He wants to be anointed an above our laws president and the GOP seems ready to acquiesce.
What’s the “red line” or is there any?
13
Can we boycott the census?
If enough aware Americans refused to participate?
6
He is not asking Commerce to defy the Court-the Court held that he had the power to include the question if he did it for the proper reasons. He simply asked Commerce to comply with the proper procedure-the very opposite of asking them to defy the Court;.
10
Nope, he’s just defying the Supreme Court of the United States, and the Constitution of the United States. Do not minimize what your wannabe dictator “president” is attempting to do. He needs to resign, and take his lumps in court.
17
If he's going to move forward with defying the courts this would seem to me to be a pretty clear cut case for invoking the articles of impeachment.
Speaker Pelosi?
17
I think it’s time we are not ruled by Tweets. A tweet does not a policy make. If your child exhibited such ridiculous behavior; you might choose to ignore rather than reinforce.
11
I think it speaks volumes that the Eagle screams and Trump tweets!
4
a better question would be:
how many people in your household have access to healthcare you can afford?
20
How many illegal immigrant’s healthcare can your family support?
15
That the impeachment process has not begun is mind-boggling.
14
Our DOJ professionals, who likewise swore to uphold the Constitution, must have decided that instead of following the oath, they would be complicit with and enablers of this President.
11
Even if this horrible citizenship question gets added to our census, NONE of us need to answer it, either accurately or at all. How about if every citizen responds No?? Take that, Dictator Donald.
10
The reason the left opposes this question is because they depend on illegal immigrants being counted for political strength. If your ideology only works by breaking federal law it’s not a legitimate cause. It’s Marxism.
13
It’s pretty rich for a Trumpist to bellow about breaking Federal law.
11
@JOSEPH
Could they be any more transparent?
5
I will not answer the question in protest!
5
Does anyone out there still not understand why Donald J. Trump found himself in Bankruptcy Court so many times when he was a private citizen? The man simply cannot face reality and expects his fantasy world to replace the real world. Too bad millions of Americans can't yet see how bad such a failed individual has been for the entire nation.
16
If there was any doubt of the value of our Supreme Court, this effort to bypass it's findings should end this issue. Trump and his lawless band are running this country as they see fit to the disadvantage of our values, morality, laws and rights. It is Trump's law with Barr and McConnell at the helm.
8
"Administration officials said that the president was not planning to fire Mr. Ross, but that the situation had renewed concerns about his performance."
They are concerned that Ross is not a very convincing liar. but not concerned that he is likely a stock market manipulator.
7
What is wrong woth Trump and Barr?
4
The Commerce Department really will run out of time and cannot produce a rationale for the question that will pass judicial muster. But even after the litigation ends, Trump will repeatedly return to the issue in the press, thus assuring that the original goal of intimidating immigrants into avoiding the census taker will be accomplished.
8
Does no one in Washington read the Constitution?
The Census is a headcount -- period. (See Article I, Section 3). It is for use by the House of Representatives to apportion both representatives, and budget, to States, based on this headcount.
There are no qualifiers or other conditions listed in the Constitution necessary for the Census -- just headcount.
The Census is the purview of the House of Representatives, not the Executive Branch or the Supreme Court. The Constitution's language is clear and simple on this point.
Trump and his Cabinet have no place in this process. Trump may want to rule the world -- badly, but in the end, the Census is none of the Executive Branch's business.
He's greedily overreaching the powers given to him for electoral gain. The Legislative Branch is supposed to block such overreach -- but unfortunately, only the House is doing its job, with no help from the Republican-controlled Senate.
This lopsided power balance offers no better reason than to eliminate any citizenship question from the census. That, and the Constitution's rules.
19
Now you see why Obama and the Congressional Dems should have gone to war with McConnell over the Merrick Garland SCOTUS nomination, and why the Dems should similarly do everything possible to prevent Trump and McConnell from putting any more judges onto federal courts and SCOTUS.
One of the few places that Trump's dictatorial, constitution-defying actions have been stymied is in the federal courts.
But Trump is stacking these courts with right-wing judges who will rule however he wants them to.
We also see why impeachment must start now. Add defying the ruling of a federal judge and lying to federal courts about the motivations and intentions of the census question to the long list of high crimes and misdemeanors that Trump could be impeached for RIGHT NOW!
13
Gee, maybe you shoulda voted, huh?
2
Almost feeling sorry for those lawyers who thought they were working for the Justice Department come to the realization that they are actually working for the Trump Organization.
13
Trump believes he is King.
13
The end of democracy on the 4th of July
This should be your headline....
9
The Supreme Court has no army to enforce its opinions. It depends on the 'consent of the governed.' But Trump has not given his consent and will do what he darn wants. They'll put that question on the form, and he'll thumb his nose yet again. "Yeah? Try and stop me."
We'll see if SCOTUS (or Roberts,to be more exact) is willing ti throw out the whole census in 2021 if Trump is not re-elected.
4
Well I guess D.J. Trump told the Supreme Court who is Boss. We are now officially a nation of men not laws, and full-fledged authoritarian regime, not a democracy. Trump Rules!
Can Attorney-General Barr be disbarred for this action?
You know how they say Trump gets away with with what he does because he does it all in public? Do you think this Trump act of defiance of the highest Court in the land may just be him testing the waters and paving the way for him to refuse to leave office if he loses the 2020 election?
11
This isn't going to end well. I believe there are enough people in the USA who see our democracy being dismantled by this egomaniac president who cares nothing of the rule of law; those people are coming to the end of their rope about it. It would take too much space to list all the issues - we all know them anyway -- but bucking SCOTUS is enough all by itself. Something needs to be done now.
12
Well I guess the Supreme Court isn't "supreme"?
12
@Richard The Republicans get to decide when it is Supreme now.
6
memo to individual doj attorneys: the "good german" defense won't work. you are subject to ethics rules, at least. it's time to decline to work on this case for the would-be dictator. and for barr, many of us hope that the house judiciary committee puts you in its crosshairs for impeachment. you are doing our country an immense disservice.
16
Just asking for more of same, embarrassment...
7
United States Census. The purpose of the census is to collect statistical data about U.S. citizens to determine the appropriate division of Senate house seats and provide a basis for apportioning federal taxes and funding among states.
6
The census is a count of persons, not just citizens.
10
bear, the purpose as specifically stated in the Constitution is to determine the number of persons not citizens. The Founders debated the issue directly and chose "persons" deliberately.
8
@bear it is not about US citizenship, it is a numeration of the people of the country. I worked the last census and there wasn't a controversy about enumeration ... US citizenship is only now an issue with this administration and the GOP as a whole, look and read the current trends of historical facts beginning with this person swearing and oath to the constitution and now defying that very principle!
1
The issue is likely to come up before the Supreme Court, again. It will have a chance to explain then whether, while rejecting the administration's decision to insert the citizenship question in the census form, it had “left open the chance that the administration could offer an adequate rationale” for it, as the authors of this report contends. Will Chief Justice Roberts who wrote the majority opinion in the earlier case issue a clarification? Otherwise, we are left to believe that, in issuing the tweet that “We are absolutely moving forward” President Trump is being contemptuous of the court.
It’s quite possible that a constitutional crisis is in the offing. If it erupts, the Supreme Court will have a chance to teach this president what even a junior high student in the country knows: that when it comes interpreting the laws of the country, the Supreme Court has the last word, not some lawyers in the Justice Department who are acting as lackeys of Mr. Trump, not as lawyers who are supposed to serve the country.
Let’s hope that Federal Judge George Hazel who is grappling with the issue now and whose decision will determine whether the case goes to the Supreme Court once again, is not intimidated by Mr. Trump’s tweet. It seems he is already intimidated by the Justice Department lawyers. Are they not sending a message to the Supreme Court that, when it decided on the issue earlier, it was ignorant of the “legally available path,” which they say they are exploring now?
10
This is Trump's Andrew Jackson moment:
“John Roberts has made his decision, now let him enforce it."
If the entire federal judiciary accepts whatever new excuse Trump comes up with to isolate non-citizens from being counted in the census, it will have capitulated its entire role as a separate, co-equal branch of government.
A huge step towards minority rule.
All this while Mitch McConnell sits on his hands.
16
The Constitution gives the federal government exclusive control over immigration/naturalization. This means that the federal government has final say on which migrants live here; all migrants would be here with the approval of the federal government. Consequently, when the Constitution says that "all residents" should be counted for the Census, it assumes that all residents are either citizens or migrants who have federal approval to live here.
Since the Constitution puts immigration/naturalization under the jurisdiction of the federal government, the document would be inconsistent if it then allowed individual states to harbor any migrants without the approval of the federal government, let alone to count them for the Census.
15
@ann
This is perhaps the most sensible comment here.....and from someone in deep-blue Seattle!
4
And who is the “federal government”? One man, the President, or all the branches and the bureaucracy? It seems at this juncture we have one man acting on his own whim.
6
It’s always fun watching you guys throw that strict construction and original intent jazz right out the window when you want something, and there’s an old Steely Dan album called, “Pretzel Logic.”
This just in: the actual Constitution says, “persons,” and that Congress, not the general “Federal government,” says what the Census counts and how.
Sorry. Maybe read the thing at some point?
6
They may be trying but this is more campaign stunt to keep the "base" loyal than anything else. Trump and Barr know they cannot violate the SCOTUS ruling.
It also helps feed the lie that government (this means whatever legal process you object to in the moment here) is the enemy of "real" Americans. And all the rest of the lies republicans live on.
7
This administration doesn't know if it is coming or going.
Delusional Donnie is running the US Government the way he ran his mom-and-pop sole proprietorships, by the seat of his pants.
And he did that so well that he went bankrupt 6 times, 4 of those while operating money machines, otherwise known as casinos, that make a few cents off every dollar waged in the place.
It take ENORMOUS talent to go bankrupt running a casino.
Now YOU get to see that talent in action, as carried out by a "very stable genius."
Whoopee!
(Stay away from Washington and have a happy and healthy 4th of July.)
12
The Court did not say the question can’t be asked. It can’t. Numerous precedents have been set allowing for various questions to be included in the census. The key is that they have a legitimate purpose. So the problem for the administration is to come up with a reasonable rationale for the citizenship question.
I, for one, see a very legitimate need to know who is and is not a citizen. Illegal immigrants should not be counted for purposes of representation in Congress. The Democrats know that because of their affinity for these lawbreakers, this means more votes.
12
@Richard E Fleishman
Another sensible comment. It's clearly all about corralling more votes.
7
Except that the Court also basically said that the reason Wilbur Ross’ lawyers gave was ridiculously disconnected from reality.
They argued that Trump’s Admin—TRUMP’s!—sought to help the Voting Rights Act. That’s ludicrous on its face.
Nor did it help that the real reason came out: it was to depress the count and advantage the GOP.
The Admin’s argument got thrown out, which is what happens when you can’t be hinest about what you’re doing.
4
Pitiful clown government. In the meantime roll out the tanks. Show off our jets.
8
This administration appears to be determined to disable our system of checks and balances.
15
@Phillip
That is what the republicans have been trying to do since Nixon was forced to resign for being a good republican.
8
Justice Dept should be independent; not Trump's servant. Vote out GOP
19
Why would anyone be unwilling to answer a secret census survey? Will the next concern be that respondents don’t reveal if they are African American or mixed race? But instead of asking about citizenship, there could be questions “ We’re your parents born in the USA?” and “Have you lived in the USA for more than ten years”. Neither directly asks about the respondent’s citizenship.
3
The revelation of Hofeller's chicanery should be sufficient evidence of the GOP's ill intentions. The court need not keep the case on life support when the relevant facts are already in evidence.
13
"We the People" do not Elect a King or Queen, that rules by edict. The Census is a Contitutional responsibilty, as prescribed in the Constitution, and not subject to being alterered by Tweet or Executive Order.
The 4th of July, is a celebration of the Constitution, not a party to be held in honor of a President. Especially a President, that spits on that cherished document, almost everyday, in almost everyway. Happy 4th, and consider well what we celebrate today. If it is going rain, I hope it pours on Trump's gaudy display.
16
The Founding Fathers would have been aghast at the controversy about taking a census of Americans. Progressives are arguing for a new definition of “citizenship” - living in America. Not either being born here or fulfilling the legal path to citizenship. No other western nation professing democratic ideals has tens of millions of illegals in it mist. Making a mockery of our immigration laws. At the same time we’re reinventing “service to the nation” by hiring out the “duty to serve” with volunteers. The bedrock principles by which millions of Americans took their patriotism, citizenship and service is sliding away. No other nation is afraid to count to its citizens. Why make America different ?
10
@Peter I Berman
The Constitution explicitly states that the census counts "persons", not citizens. To change that would require a Constitutional amendment.
The irony is that many of the same people arguing this point also support "originalist" Supreme Court justices, who interpret the words of the Constitution by their literal meaning.
Which one is it?
You can't have it both ways.
18
As far as not answering the citizenship question, or not filling in the census form at all, I would think that Trump and the Republicans would welcome as many non-participants as possible. The fewer people that respond, the better it is for Republicans. That's why they want the citizenship question on the form in the first place--so fewer people are counted. So, it would seem you're helping Trump & his party by not participating.
4
As an American citizen, I applaud the President's decision.
11
@cleo
The real issue is not whether or not you think the citizenship question is good policy. The real issue is process and the Rule of Law.
If the President can do whatever he wants by decree, then Congress and the Supreme Court should just pack it up and go home. There is a word for that type of government.
But I will remind you, on this July 4, that this is not how our Constitutional form of government works. We have three co-equal branches of government. The president cannot defy the Supreme Court, or defy Congress, per the rules set out in our Constitution.
12
Honestly, instead of proclaiming a loss for Trump, everyone should have just laid low til the critical moment passed, to avoid drawing his attention to a failure he won’t countenance. You can’t poke a bear with a stick and not expect a reaction.
4
Dear America, the NY Times chose to omit the fact that most Western nations, like Canada, do ask the citizenship census question. What separates America from most other Western nations is the significant number of undocumented workers. American employers are not legally required to verify citizenship, nor is it illegal to hire non Americans who have not been authorized to enter the country. There are easy solutions America chooses not to make regarding citizenship counts.... The census question seems to be the least of Americas problems.
17
I am very surprised that this question is not already on the census. I don’t see any harm in gathering this information. Immigration is one of the most debated and important topics facing this country so why not have facts other than trying to guess. Maybe the issue is not as big a concern as many think.
19
@CHRIS
And another very sensible reaction, now from NYC.
6
"Mr. Ross has also drawn anger from Democrats in Congress for offering shifting explanations"
Tell the truth: Ross lied under oath.
16
Thank you, Lynn. “Shifting Explanations”, indeed.
6
When federal judges learn of the issues before their courts by twitter, what is it all coming to?
18
If he moves forward after Supreme Court decision. Isn’t this grounds for impeachment? The president cannot be prosecuted but if other members of his cabinet defy the Supreme Court can they be fined or sent to jail. I guess the president could pardon them since this would be federal offense? Wow! If you have complicit senate who will not act. Then the president is above the law!
13
@Bernie Isn't that McConnell's plan, to be above the law and stay in power?
9
Wouldn't it be nice to know how many citizens live in the United States prior to the next presidential election? It certainly would help determine if a significant number of people voted who had NO right to vote! Or is that a bad thing to Democrats?
13
@Tired of hypocrisy
Illegal immigrants do not vote. (That is a conspiracy theory on the level of believing the moon landing was faked.)
You can make a valid argument that congressional seats should be allocated based on a count of the number of citizens. However, the Constitution explicitly states that the census counts "persons", not citizens. So you would have to amend the Constitution.
5
Thank you, MidtownATL. Your sensible, factual comments should be repeated all over this thread and many others until people understand the Constitution.
2
It's the duty of the Executive, the second branch of government under the Constitution, to execute the law. The law is made by the first branch, Congress. Obeying the law is the duty of everyone in the United States, including members of all three branches. If the most democratic branch of Congress doesn't impeach President Trump, as it did President Andrew Johnson, for disobeying the law, there is no way back. The law will be made by the Executive branch and our system of government will be dictatorship.
8
What happens if Trump issues an executive order to include the question in the face of the SCOTUS ruling?
5
Trump says he will do this by executive order. I wonder what Roberts will think about that? if everything gets done by executive order, what need is there for Congress or the judiciary?
19
@ChristineMcM
And how much were you asking the same question about the abusive use of Executive Orders during the Obama Administration? The hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds.
4
@“Common Sense”. Regardless of how we feel about any other Executive Order (and for the record, I didn’t always agree when Obama did it either), that’s called “Whataboutism”, and has nothing to do with this particular discussion.
4
There is no constitutional crisis, as some commentators who have not read the Supreme Court ruling contend.
The Supreme Court ruled that asking the citizenship question is constitutional.
It also ruled that Commerce Department’s stated rationale for asking the question was “reasonable” and “supported by evidence.”
But the court found that the Commerce Department erred by not disclosing the “pretextual history” of its decision-making process to the district court.
The Supreme Court ruled that the Commerce Department must go back to the district court and disclose the pretextual history to the district court.
The administration says it can comply with the Supreme Court ruling in time to add the question to the 2020 census.
12
So the SCOTUS Decision was just about filing some paperwork? I don't think so, sir. With due respect, I think it was about something far deeper, and therefore far more prejudicial against the Government's ability to proceed.
If the Roberts Court reverses itself and now allows a mysterious new and hitherto hidden rationale for the Government inclusion of the citizen question on the census, it will become quite clear that the Court is ADVOCATING for the government, not deciding the merits of the case according to law.
It then ceases to be the Supreme Court, and becomes part of the DOJ.
8
Fine. Then every decent American should check the "non-citizen" box. We owe no allegiance to this tyrant who has overtaken our government.
10
I agree. Please do that. Then your congressional district can be drawn to reflect the number of American citizens living there.
7
The citizenship question was asked in the 1930 and 1940 census. Prior to that the question asked was country of birth and country of birth of the mother and father as we are a country of immigrants.
So what is next? Have you been convicted of a felony? What is your race? Your ethnicity? Are you Christian, Jewish or Muslim or?
Slippery slope at this stage.
5
Most of those questions are on the census already. That’s what the census measures.
5
Given what I've seen from this administration, I don't trust them to count the population accurately with or without the citizenship question. Perhaps Congress should appoint monitors to ensure that the count is done correctly and as accurately as possible.
10
From what I have read, the citizenship question is in two parts. One asks about citizenship. The other wants to know, if you are a citizen, if you are native born or naturalized. Just think about that for a moment and the frightening scenario it conjures up.
4
Just count the “ taxpayers “ who are legal citizens, and those on social security disability. Then determine how many representatives and senators are required in each federal district.
Or just appease “the New Social Democrats “and open the borders to the worlds poor..
6
If you don’t mind, I think I’d rather we follow the Constitution: it says “persons,” so we count persons. But feel free to take this to Congress, since the pesky document also says that it’s Congress’ call and not the President’s.
11
@Moe -- Of course that's not what the Constitution demands but hey, why sweat the small stuff. No wonder Trump cultists support him.
10
Honest question. What happens if you just don’t answer this question? Do you not get counted?
The census survey is the only survey you are legally required to fill out. Depending on your point of view, there is a legal argument that you only need to answer questions pertaining to size of household and nothing else. However if you do so, you will receive a "follow-up" census request to fill in the rest of the information. The census is something that is described in the constitution as something the country can obtain every 10 years from all citizens and residents, and therefore you are required to comply.
4
The Trump administration is not defying the Supreme Court. as many commentator have asserted. T
The Supreme Court ruled that the citizenship question is constitution . It also found that the Commerce Department's rationale for asking the question was reasonable and supported by evidence. However, its agreed with the district court that the Commerce Department did not disclose its "pretextual" reasons for asking the question. It ruled the department has to return to the district court and disclose its pretextual reasons.
The administration says it can comply with the ruling in time to add the question to the print questionnaire.
9
@William Case
So in other words, the Trump administration is incompetent. They could not figure out how to correctly follow the process to add a question to the census.
12
@William Case Woudn't the Trump administration have to admit that their originl reasons to include the question were lies in the first place?
5
The Court ruled no such thing, Bill. It ruled—after having been lied to—that Ross had authority derived from Congress, but that that authority was limited by statute. In particular, it held that his rationale was phony. Then it allowed the key parts of the lower court rulings to stand.
And I think you know it, just as you know that Mueller’s report did not exonerate Trump.
7
Please, please, please vote this maniac out of office! Please. How much more of this insanity are we to withstand? His next act is to just ignore the Supreme Court. Why are we all sitting on our hands? Impeach him immediately. He's ignoring Congress, now the SC. There is nothing left to continue to ignore but us. Before the election we will not have any rights left.
The Emperor has no clothes. What more do we need? All we do is talk about him as a clown, entertainment, a psychopath, but no on does anything!!!
19
Was not the question of citizenship the original intention of this effort? So the justice department is not factually reversing course, but returning to the original one? Just asking.
7
The real crisis at the root of the citizenship question is illegal immigration. And politicians from both parties are responsible for not securing the border, and for allowing the flood of illegal immigrants to continue. And now we have Democrat politicians openly flouting immigration laws with so called "sanctuary cities". The Democrats seem to care more about illegal immigrants than they do about their own citizens.
17
Nancy Pelosi, are you even watching this man’s conduct? What are you waiting for? The impeachment-tool was created to stop exactly this type of conduct. And it’s occurring every day! Are you going down in history as complicit in the demise of our country? Are you waiting for it to get worse, like maybe a war? Soon there won’t be any country left to save. What are you afraid of?
8
@Michael C
She is a problem not a solution.
She needs to go.
The Times should push for it.
Her donors are the largest companies in all the terrible sectors. Look up her top 10 and you will see why she does not do anything about the status quo.
She is rich and wants to remain rich.
Not the person to run the Congress. AOC please take over as soon as you can.
5
It's high time to start with impeachment proceedings!
14
Get this man out of office.
10
Typical Trump. If you don't agree with him---you are wrong!
5
If the citizenship question makes it to the census, I call on ALL OF YOU to answer that you are NOT a citizen. Take the sting out of the question by taking the sting out of the question. LIE! Heck, Trump butters his bread with lies.
6
Then you will see your congressional representation reduced. Yes, smart plan.
5
@DB
Answering that you are not a citizen does not reduce your representation. Congress represents everyone, whether we are citizens or not.
3
@Adam. Then what happens when you want to vote?
1
Why, pray tell, would Democrats want to include non-citizens....millions of whom are illegal aliens...in a count used to determine congressional seats? I can’t quite work it out...(sarcasm).
11
Most disturbing is that our presidential administration seems to think the vast majority of citizens are stupid. Our democracy is really in jeopardy. This initiative is designed to bolster republican control. Consider the following:
"Fascism is a form of government which is a type of one-party dictatorship. Fascists are against democracy. ... Fascism puts nation and often race above the individual. It stands for a centralized government headed by a dictator. Historically, fascist governments tend to be militaristic, and racist."
Most all readers know these things. I just had to speak out.
17
Most disturbing is that our presidential administration seems to think the vast majority of citizens are stupid. Our democracy is really in jeopardy. This initiative is designed to bolster republican control. Consider the following:
"Fascism is a form of government which is a type of one-party dictatorship. Fascists are against democracy. ... Fascism puts nation and often race above the individual. It stands for a centralized government headed by a dictator. Historically, fascist governments tend to be militaristic, and racist."
Most all readers know these things. I just had to speak out.
2
Who knew, when a president doesn't like a decision, just issue an Executive Order, and POOF, a ruling you don't like magically disappears...
Shame President Clinton didn't issue an Executive Order after Bush V Gore....He could have installed Al Gore as president...
President Obama should have issued an Executive Order to invalidate the Shelby ruling from 2013 as well..
6
I was a census taker in Florida in 2010. Does anyone really think an illegal immigrant will answer when they see a stranger with a badge around his or her neck knock on their door? I peered into a bedroom window and could see the poor guy hiding under his bed.
3
@Hank
Good. They shouldn’t be counted anyway, unless you’re all for “foreign interference in elections”.
8
@NYCSurgical
I don't disagree with you but I also don't believe any person should live in fear because he wants to live here like I do.
2
I guess I missed the section of the Constitution that gives the President the authority to rule by issuing declarations on Twitter. Folks, this is a dictatorship.
19
Vote in a NON-GOP Congress, and state legislatures, then let's prosecute every lawbreaker, and overhaul our democracy, making it fascism-proof. Every citizen must participate for this to work. If you're not frightened, you're not paying attention.
17
Yes their is no rule of law when it applies to illegal immigration! pretty much an exception to it. How can we respect our laws when foreigners barge in without any restriction?
4
@JG. how can we respect our laws when the president of the US refuses to? Trump breaks more laws in an hour than asylum seekers break in a lifetime. If he doesn't obey them, why should any of us obey anything?
5
Mr. Trump tramples on the Constitution on July 4.
Dear Republicans,
What have you done?
God help us all.
14
Wear black today. How can we celebrate Liberty when people are jammed in cages and the executive branch is all powerful? Are we witnessing the death of America?
8
Guess President Trump was listening to Hugh Hewitt this time. Lol
3
One hand doesn’t know what the other is doing.
3
Trump creates chaos to get what he wants, spinning things in circles.
6
You have to wonder what the Supreme Court justices think they're doing, backing a man who is robbing them of their power, authority, and their status as the third branch of government. Do they all really want to be subordinate to the whims of an unstable, incompetent dictator running the country?
16
When oh when is someone from the media going to have the guts to just face up to Trump and ask him point blank if he should be running the country without opposition much like Putin runs Russia?
Bear in mind of course that any answer, other than yes, will be a lie.
5
Yesterday the President moved to undermine the Supreme Court, and he today is putting on a show of military might, in what might be called dictator-style.
10
And how else can he waste a lot of money?
7
More reason to remove Trump from office in next year's election. One has to wonder why any patriotic American would still support this wannabe dictator who defies the highest court in the land?
15
Start writing to Twitter’s board of directors. Time to shut down Mr. Trump’s account. And why are the tweets always from a personal account, not the WH account? Skirting the Hatch Act? Tweeting is no way to govern.
6
Censorship is not the solution. The opposite will be his undoing, and the Hatch Act does not limit the POTUS.
1
When the American President now defies even the Judiciary Branch, is it the end?
8
He has not yet defied the Court on this issue. He has ordered the DOJ to find a way to do what he wants. And the Roberts decision leaves the door open for an alternative justification of the question that might satisfy five justices.
5
@William Does it occur to you that the Judiciary Branch may be in agreement with him rather than bowing to his pressure. Illegal immigration has become a huge problem for America. Health and education cannot be solved without solving the undocumented problem ounce and for all.
2
How long will it be until this wannabe tyrant shown that he cannot ignore the laws and Constitution of the United States. The Constitution, that by the way, he has sworn to uphold and defend. Republicans do your jobs. Take ownership for the problems that your party is causing and stop it.
10
Let's invite the remaining 6 billion to move in. The more the merrier.
6
@trey heavy The way the trajectory is set, we may well see hundreds of millions heading here. When temperature is 90 degrees in Anchorage,anything can happen with limited vision.We are heading to a full blown Hobbsian outcome.
2
What hold does Trump hold over the justices and others? This stinks of mob boss tactics, not for the first time. Scary after scary after scary.
7
Vote him out! If Dems seem too extreme, keep in mind how extreme this President is, how he disrespects our Constitution, Bill of Rights, and our laws . Remember the damage he's done to our institutions, our relationships with our allies, and then, his admiration of murderous dictators.
12
@Brenda Snow
So asking if a person residing in the US is an American citizen is now considered extreme?
But decriminalizing crossing the border illegally isn’t?
Or giving illegal immigrants free healthcare isn’t?
You’re in for a bit of a disappointment come 2020 election.
8
@NYCSurgical I totally agree with you. I see it as a crushing defeat for the democrats.I have been one all my life, that is about to change in the next election. Trump's only purpose is to set the stage for a major shake up to save us from ourselves.
3
Trump is an outlaw executive. What if he loses a close election in 2020? Will he claim that millions of illegal immigrants voted against him - again - and refuse to leave office? Will he ignore court orders to vacate while indictments for various financial crimes in the NYSD are pending? Will Republicans side with him against the Constitution? The longer this man goes unchallenged and un-impeached by Congress, the greater the menace he will become.
8
Protest the census. Civil disobedience was invented for administrations like this.
The press should lead the charges by writing editorials to this effect.
Pelosi and Schumer should be asked to resign their posts. They are awful,
We are in a constitutional crisis where the constitution itself is the main culprit. This is beyond paradoxical, it is farcical.
6
Lots of comments deriding Trumps effort to include this question. Forget the notion for a second that where are we as a nation when some folks find it so offensive and bigoted to simply as if you are an American citizen or not. What gets me is that the census doesn’t just determine the allocation of federal funds. It also determines how many House seats and electoral votes each state is appropriated. So including illegal immigrants in that count skews that number. A state with more illegal immigrants counted will be afforded more House seats and more electoral votes. Given that, now we know why Democrats set up sanctuary cities in Dem leaning states, to swell the populations there, giving them more representation come census time. Didn’t the country go through a grueling exercise in foreign interference in elections? Weren’t Democrats screaming from rooftops that foreign interference in elections is an attack in our democracy? Yet they fully support foreign interference in this case, dont they? Illegal immigrants being counted in the census will have a direct impact on our elections.
The. You wonder the Democrat support sanctuary cities, drivers licenses and now even free healthcare for illegal immigrants. They’ve lost the American middle class, and now depend on poor foreigners to win elections. It’s quite sickening how far the Democrat Party has fallen.
13
@NYCSurgical
The Constitution states that the census counts "persons", not citizens. You can argue that only citizens should be counted when determining allocation of Congressional seats. But that would require a Constitutional amendment.
5
Ah but searching for dictatorship is hard.
1
The Supreme Court said the stated reason for the question was contrived. How does the Commerce Department come up with a "new" reason that won't be equally contrived? They can't just make up a new rationale.
8
We should be protesting all over the country not just in a few places. This is the end of our democracy. The modicum of pride we had about our constitution is now gone. We are being trampled over every day by a dictator and his pathetic enablers.
The executive power so easily crushes the judicial and has already crushed the legislative branch so many times.
Montesquieu is rolling over his grave. So much for a semblance of a working democracy.
The Constitution is the enabler of this mess. Change it or perish into a fascist oligarchy. It has happened before!
The comments are mostly chagrined about the democracy we lost. On this Fourth of July, I am seriously questioning if we ever owned it.
8
Not sure if you removed the political overtones here anybody would object to the simple question: are you a citizen?
6
If it makes it onto the census don't answer, let then prosecute hundreds of thousands of Americans, another flagrant disregard for the rule of law, by a conservative and politicized Supreme Court.
3
The courts ordered Mr. Trump to stop. Like a child, he replied, "Who's going to make me? You and whose army?" And then he proceeded to stand on the national mall with the army behind him.
Happy Birthday, America.
This is a dark day in our nation.
15
@MidtownATL
Asking whether a person residing in the United Styes is a citizen is now a “dark day” for our nation?
The dark day came when some folks now think simply asking that question is offensive.
3
@NYCSurgical
It's not the issue of the citizenship question on the census.
It's the defiance of the courts, and the Rule of Law.
8
If Trump defies Supreme Court, American Public rises. We are looking at a civil war. Sime. I don't trust enough Republicans in the Senate to do the right thing of impeaching him.
7
@Mark, gone are the days where Republicans would sometimes vote for their constituents or for their conscience over Party.
They know that they will be punished, perhaps ruined, if they do not move in lockstep with the GOP. They will certainly never be re-elected, and re-election is more important to them than country or conscience. Republicans, prove me wrong. Please.
5
Wait! Just wait a second! Does the don not realize that he cannot veto the Supreme Court? Dies he not understand that to refuse to obey the Supreme Court’s ruling risks being held in contempt of court? Shame on the Justice Department for not setting him straight, but rather encouraging him in this insanity!
6
I notice that Trump claims this question is "important" and that they "must" move forward with it, but he neglects to explain why it is important and why it is so imperative. We all know the answer: It is because they are trying to subvert the Constitution and avoid counting everyone residing in the country. Come on, the founding fathers agreed to count slaves, who were not citizens and had no rights. They weren't even counted as full human beings - just three-quarters of one - but at least they were counted.
6
It's a game of "pass muster." The legal minds of the administration will keep dreaming up different rationales (none of which occurred to them originally mind you) to justify (rationalize actually) inclusion of 'The Question' until SCOTUS finally passes muster on one. Like they did with their ban on Muslims, guess, guess then guess again.
"You never get a second chance to make a first impression."
That they didn't have rational and logical justifications able to pass muster at the outset is very telling indeed.
1
"Justice Department"? kind of an oxymoron these days isn't it? they are all about the opposite if justice.
4
Lot's of sound and fury.
Interesting concept.
A judicial tribunal rules that the fact that the duly elected representatives of it's citizens in a representative democratic country should not know if they are citizens... legally, is up for debate. Literally thousands of people comment, many berating the very idea of even knowing.
Do you really wonder why the many are concerned for the future of freedom?
2
I am saddened that policy discussions are now carried out via Twiddle. That this mindless means of stream of consciousness ego spewing is an official means of government communication show just how deeply tech companies have taken over.
4
Stop Trump on all fronts, Ballot Box, courts and public opinion.
Republicans stop the sellout. Do your job for the people and the country first.
4
If I do not open the door and respond to the census taker, will I be considered an illegal and get all the benefits they enjoy?
Like representation without taxation, free healthcare, and free education.
6
And he accused the House of wanting a "do-over" with the Mueller investigation, the 2016 election, etc. He wants a SCOTUS do-over. Guess what, Mr. President, even with justices picked by you and the Federalist Society, their decisions will be more nuanced than you will ever understand, and the answer may still be No.
5
Just as a child tests the boundaries of authority so dose President Trump in order to get his way. He is playing with his army toys today to show the world he is the biggest bully on the playground.
Protests will be present in DC today. We as the people need to rise in protest to this government as the people of China are.
7
I perceive some substantial merit to some of the arguments on both sides of this issue. But one thing is very clear...this is a very partisan issue. I am anti-partisan and do not have a strong preference for either side of this issue.
However, I think the actions of the Justice Department are an important matter. Clearly, the Justice Department is acting in the case as the partisan agent of a single person's, the president's, political desires. This is not uniquely a Trump phenomenon. All presidents have similarly used the Justice
Department. It is just that they usually try to conceal their influence whereas Trump likes his influence to be on public display.
If nothing else, this is just more evidence that the Justice Department is falsely named in an effort to deceive the public and gain/maintain public support for its efforts in the courts. The department should be named the Injustice Department.
p.s. this episode of Trump and (in)Justice Department behavior is very similar to Trump's behavior regarding the Federal Reserve. Like all presidents, Trump attempts to get the Federal Reserve to act in a manner to serve the president's personal political interests. Other presidents do such selfish efforts in a secret manner, whereas Trump likes to do it publicly.
5
NYTIMES readers clearly don't want a citizenship question on the 2020 census.
For these readers answers abound.
Citizens of the US should not hold themselves deserving of any Gov. available programs or benefits allowed under US law.
These include Medicare and all rights granted to those who have arrived legally.
They believe the US government should be responsible for collecting these costs from US taxpayers so that any person who has crossed into continental US will receive the same benefits and rule of law as those who have not.
2
Will the census contain a question regarding race?
Will the census contain a question regarding religion?
Will the census contain a question regarding ethnic origin?
4
@Bicycle Bob
Well, nobody had suggested any of that, so the answer is no.
2
The Government should include a question about citizenship. If you are American then you should have no issue with this. No where else in the modern world can you just go and live there without permission so why must We the USA be any different?
6
Because, Ken, the constitution says to count people, not citizens. Do you know what the census is used for? Businesses use it to decide where to open factories, stores and offices based on population. It’s how governments decide where to put hospitals, libraries, roads and other services. As well as how federal funds are distributed. Do you think an undercount, which is predicted, is only going to impact non-citizens?
7
@Ken
I'm going to Russia. Maybe I can get a better deal over there. If not, I understand Iran is greeting millions of emigres with open arms, continental breakfast, cable and chic outfits.
1
The country's great moral stain of slavery included the full census counting of those human beings. The 3/5s compromise meant greater voting heft for white propertied males, i.e. those possessing human chattel. This applied to the decennial censuses from 1790 to 1860. The Administration is not only engaging in a frontal - impeachable - assault on the Constitution as it now exists, but adds a perverse coda to Frederick Douglass' 1852 address, "What is the 4th of July to the Slave?"
2
Who is in charge of decisions on what to do? The courts or the president? Why is the opinion of a Judge have more power than a person put in power by the people? Why does a person who has come to the US illegally and breaking the law have any impact on any law? Make them legal or send them home.
2
The Supreme Court ruling is absurd. Any new rationale that the administration may offer for adding a citizenship question would be more “contrived” than the first. How could SCOTUS consider any reason for adding the question that is offered after the fact, and after another reason was offered, as anything but contrived?
6
Judge Hazel noted that under the circumstances of the case he would ordinarily order the appearance of the C.E.O. because the Court would not be able to conclude that the attorney was actually speaking for the client anymore. Why is Trump above the law? Order him to appear just as the Court should.
4
I find it curious that Liberals are now afraid of data - that's the kind of behavior that you typically find in right-wingers.
If the old aphorism, "el saber es poder" is true, then ignorance is weakness.
Don't ban the data - ban Trump in 2020. When we have rid ourselves of Trump, good people will be able to put the data to good use.
7
Quite the opposite - every expert on the subject had said that adding this question will give us LESS data and less accurate data. It’s always difficult to get an accurate census count. This will be another factor that gets in the way of accuracy.
9
@Kira Gartner
What “expert” AOC?
3
Does Trump not care about the Supreme Court and its decision because today, with tanks on the streets of DC he will assume dictatorial power?
5
One thing I have certainly learned from this trump administration is how weak our government is. It is shocking and truly frightening.
8
If the question is on it I will either not answer the question or not answer the census or, just lie my way through it. If I get creative I may head a household of 10 people who are immigrants from Antartica.
3
How about a compromise. Trump only gets to ask Obama and once more gets a yes. In this week alone this man has ruined the census and the 4th of July.
5
Maybe I'm missing something...according to this article "Adding the citizenship question could lead to an undercounting in areas with large numbers of immigrants, who tend to vote Democratic, potentially costing Democrats representation and government funding."
So we should be concerned that if we add this question, immigrant citizens will be discouraged from voting (for representation by Democrats)? That makes no sense, why would the question discourage citizens from voting for Democrats, or anyone else? Unless what we're talking about is immigrant non-citizens being discouraged from voting. If that's what this is about, encouraging non-citizens to vote, why bother having citizenship? Or a country.
3
It has nothing to do with immigrants voting, which they can't and don't do, but about being counted. The Census itself has nothing to do with whether people can vote. It's primarily about accurately counting the number of people in a place. A green card holder, for instance, has legal standing to be in the country, and can vote in local and state elections where permitted. A green card holder cannot vote in a federal election, but that does not mean they should be omitted from being represented in either legislature.
10
It’s not about the question hampering voting. Its that it will likely cause the census to be less accurate. And the census determines the makeup of the House of Representatives, impacts the distribution of money to states, etc. An systematic undercount would benefit some areas more than others.
5
Congressional representation is based on the size of the constituent population. Federal funding used for state and local spending is based on the size of the constituent population. This has nothing to do with individual voting rights.
5
Gerrymandering decision bothers me much more. It has much more terrible consequences.
2
The supreme count gave a ruling that made it possible to still amend the census , he is moving forward with new wording which is his right just as it would be for any American citizen
1
“John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it.” That is what President Jackson said when the court went against him in Worcester v. Georgia. Now Mr. Jackson is on the twenty dollar bill.
It would be interesting if Mr. Trump would say the same thing to Mr. Roberts and go ahead and print the census forms with the citizenship question in defiance to the court. I know his supporters would love it.
2
The Senate is actually the problem—they will never vote to impeach, so Trump is free to do what he wants.
The antiquated, anachronistic Constitution gives us this Senate. At some point the country will split, and/or the Constitution will get a desperately needed update.
The path we’re on is not sustainable. The clear majority of citizens in this country do not want this government, yet our voices are diminished by stale laws and institutions like the Electoral College and the Senate.
I’ve already had enough...
15
Help me understand how and along what lines your projected national split will happen and the updates required to the Constitution.
1
Of course, the tweet is Trump rallying his base and trying not to lose face, never being able to admit he has lost or is wrong. This shouldn't have anything to do with policy. What concerns me is the Federal Judge giving the DOJ and Commerce a hearing or even the time of day after his and the USSC ruling. It would have helped if Roberts's opinion had been less ambiguous about when the administration could try for a do-over.
3
Mass protest. Don't answer the census.
6
And don’t be counted?
2
@BK Okay, mass protest and take over a legislative building.
1
I did not read through this article as I am so sick of Trump and repetition, not of the press but what is going on! The court gave the Republicans the gold ring! They can control gerrymandering! So they want that and destroy the integrity of the census! Dems, we need to take the Senate!!!
5
Oh thank god the president tweeted. Now they can invent a brand new rationale to explain how they lied last time.
7
#Resist Don't answer the question, if asked.
5
If Trump and DOJ get a second bite at this atrocity, I would hope, at the least, that those on death row will get a chance to re-appeal to the Supreme Court. This is a horrible precedent, and the child president apparently must be taught that when the grownups tell him no, they mean it.
6
Is defying a Supreme Court decision an impeachable offense?
7
It can be. But he is not yet defying the court, only pressing his argument.
4
How many more unbelievably horrible things will Trump have to do before we start impeachment hearings?
8
From a historical standpoint, we need an accurate count of our country's inhabitants. Americans in 100 years trying to trace their ancestry should know their great grandparents' story. We also rely on the census to provide federal dollars to fund services and infrastructure for everybody, even if they cannot vote, and that includes the incarcerated, the undocumented and minor children. I am open to new discussions about alternatives for calculating distribution of congressional seats; I'm just not open to getting an inaccurate count of our nation's population or creating a paralyzing fear among our undocumented guests. I descended from immigrants and so did everybody I know, with the exception of those who can trace their heritage to the First Nations.
14
The comments show why we are where we are.
People, we should be outraged and protesting all over the country to gain back a modicum of democracy the pathetic constitution of ours allow the citizens of the USA. The wishy washy comments are all chagrined because the executive branch is so wa
5
This Trump Administration is crazy and erratic. First a citizenship question would be added and then dropped and now added. It reflects the schizophrenic obsessions of the President and his unsuitability for the office of President.
We have replaced “No Drama” Obama with “All Drama” Trump, who is on course to becoming our worst President ever.
For the sake of the nation and the President’s mental health impeachment is the only sane course of action.
15
The Supreme Court settled the crucial issue by ruling that “the Enumeration Clause permits Congress, and by extension the Secretary, to inquire about citizenship on the census questionnaire.” The citizenship question is constitutional; that’s no longer debatable.
The Supreme Court also found that decision to reinstate the question “was supported by the evidence” and was “reasonable and reasonably explained, particularly in light of the long history of the citizenship question on the census.”
But the Supreme Court ruled the Commerce Department has to go back to the District Court and dispose its “pretextual” reasons for reinstating the question.
The assumption is that Commerce Secretary Ross wants to give states citizenship data so they can base voting district maps on the number of citizens eligible to vote rather than the total number of residents. States in danger of losing congressional seats or Electoral College votes could use the data to advocate for changes in the way congressional seats and Electoral College votes are allocated.
Disclosing these pretextual reasons to district court should not create a problem. They are simply more valid reasons for reinstating the citizenship question.
7
Trump AGAIN is defying the Supreme Court .He really thinks he is a King ,his law or no law .Trump is really getting out of hand.Nancy Pelosi is doing nothing caving on immigration law,not starting impeachment,Trump attracts to Dictators,but he wants to be one of them.
6
Attention! Trump does not serve America. He does not care about the laws or the Constitution nor does he understand the division of power or the oath of office. He actively denigrates the press, denies Congressional authority and defies the courts. Donald Trump demands fealty to himself above the Constitution, oath of office, the Supreme Court, and facts, evidence and the truth.
Trump has abused and exploited every deference to his unpreparedness and ignorance and abnormal behavior as witnessed by his lies. Now he has instructed the Justice department to openly defy the Supreme Court. Supporters will say he did not really mean it or that the Court is fake or partisan, as he had Barr do pertaining to the Mueller report.
Trump is not unique, not a genius, not stable, and not safe. It is evident that Trump is a clear danger to our country. The Emperor has no clothes. He is a transparent misfit. God help America.
8
@Steve Although I think your heart is in the right place, I worry about what the consequences of skipping a citizenship question might be. Would it render the forms missing this answer invalid? Think about who would do this in protest. It certainly won't be Trump supporters. If this protest action results in the elimination of the people who do it, it will just skew the results further in the direction of people who are advocating it. It may just turn out to have the opposite effect of the one intended. Even if there is no current law rendering these forms invalid. Think that will matter to this administration?
2
Yet again, we see utter chaos, government by Presidential whim, and a blatant attempt to evade the decisions of the judicial branch’s constitutional authority . His own lawyers don’t even know what he’s doing.
Everything Trump does is a swirling gyre of self-created anarchy with no thru-line other than the goal of playing for time until we won’t even be able to re-construct a comprehensible narrative of what’s been accomplished. Or not accomplished.
Of course he will continue to crow that he is winning, that we are all winning. According to him , he’s just trusting the storied intuition that made him so successful in business.
At the end of the day, all that he’s managed to achieve—whether it’s on trade, North Korea, Iran, or immigration is a steadily eroding status-quo.
Will these triumphs, along with scaring voters about socialism be enough to get re-elected? It’s doubtful, but no one can be confident that his dark art wont work again.
2
Why are "tweets" considered directives, as "official documents,especially when they are not directed to any one individual, and especially when they are received as "governmental orders, even when sent by the president or other senior official? How and when did this become "standard operations policy" of our government? Is there not an official procedure for sending a directive from the executive offices of the administration to cabinet departments ? Your lead story today reflects chaotic management and government gone amok. Call it out! Loud and clear. This must not continue.
8
Happy Birthday, America.
Our present from Mr. Trump is a Constitutional crisis. He is defying the courts. He believes in the Rule of Man and not the Rule of Law.
Mr. Trump military parade today is symbolism. His defiance of the court is substantive, and is an actual threat to United States.
10
And if Trump gets the question put on the census against the Supreme Court ruling, just who's going to stop him? The Justice Department headed by Bill Barr? Impeachment by the House? Looks like he can get away with anything.
4
Here we go again. Laws were not made for the Emperor. He can ignore subpoenas with impunity and get his enablers to do the same. So what if the Supreme Court (the court that McConnell has crafted in Trump's image) insisted that this census question violated the law--- this Trump-Ross attempt to add the citizenship question so as to dilute the minority vote.
The law was seen as a hindrance and the Trump administration will try ignore it--as it has shown itself able to do frequently. But circumstances force them to argue in court.
Trump and his cohorts have little respect for law . Their policy is to weaponize the courts so that the courts will serve them rather than the public weal and become another subservient branch to the Trump party.
3
What will happen if the Trump administration goes ahead and defies the Supreme Court? What recourse do we as ordinary citizens have when we see our fragile democracy being destroyed by this would-be tyrant? I for one will join others in taking to the streets in protest.
2
The Supreme Court can needs to ANULL the result of the presidential election, based on the findings of the Mueller report, that the validity of the votes is likely most questionable because of documented Russian meddling! Because of this, a coup, that has been unleashed by Putin and his oligarchs, is currently in progress! It seems that all of the precious Constitutional checks and balances, with the hopeful exception of the Supreme Court and of some of the Federal Courts, have been subverted. Impeachment, even if completed by the Senate, which would s almost certain to not happen, will not be timely enough to undo the catastrophic damage already done by Trump and his fawning Republican subordinates. I am quite certain, that Justice Clarence Thomas, from his Catholic catechism training, knows that annulment would be the perfect reverse time machine to enable quick reversal of the damage done and restore to our nation its former greatness and international admiration and respect.
1
Trump is testing the Supreme Court to reverse it's decision on the census. Trump will take the US to war with Iran and the Republican Party will spend the constitution.
3
Of all the illegal and unethical things that this president has done, this is among the worst.
As we are observing the anniversary of the independence of our country, we have a president that thinks the courts work for him. If he defies the court, it seems that we are entering impeachment territory.
What is the point of having a separation of powers if the head of the executive branch ignores court rulings and refuses to comply with Congressional subpoenas?
What part of coequal branches of government does this president and his supporters not understand?
4
As I see it, the core problem with Trump's citizenship question is that it begs the question, if he can lie, why can't I?
3
Trump views the Supreme Court as his own, and that the conservative majority will see to it that his most dubious decisions are codified. In Trump's estimation the SCOTUS is nothing more than a transactional body of underlings.
3
So much drama over a citizenship question in the census. What are Democrats so afraid of?
5
@XLER If Trump can do "that" it is the being of the end of the constitution.
3
The citizen question was included in every census between 1790 and 1830. In the census taken in 1840, 1850, 1860 and 1880 it was excluded. It was reinstated in 1890 and remained so through 1950. That form asked where each person was born and in a follow-up question asked, "If foreign born — Is he naturalized?" Hardly a horrifying question and to state, without proof that it is the sole reason non-citizens would refuse to fill out the form is absurd.
The reason it was included was to determine how well immigrants were assimilating into the country. It was a valid question then and even more so now. Chief Justice Roberts and his brethren in the lower courts may not like the reasoning offered by the Commerce Department for including the citizenship question in the 2020 census but having been included in every census until 1840 and re-instituted in 1890 through 1950,his "procedural" objection is on shaky ground.
With tens of millions of illegal and undocumented residents in this country and over 100,000 more demanding "asylum" each month the reasoning for including the question is obvious. With Democrats demanding open borders and promising free health care to every non-citizen in this country the reason they want to exclude it is obvious as well.
7
I have given up believing in our Federal Court system and the Justice Department and I now believe in the lawlessness of the White House - Executive branch and the Justice Department. Just who do I believe? Trump is the anti-Christ of truth. And his followers believe him like the demagogue he is. The Republican Party has forsaken its long term goals in favor of “ratings”. Thankfully our Constitution gives me the right to totally disagree with all of them. Exactly like some of them did when Obama was President. I now view Trump as an inconsequential person who’s opinions simply are not important nor even valid. I do not care what he says or does anymore. To me he is all ready a forgotten unimportant individual. His entire Administration is not valid nor useful to further our interests as a nation. I follow the Heritage Society and AEI and I understand what a considerate conservative opinion is. I may not always agree, but their reasoning is understandable. And most importantly not at all fake. There are different view points. That freedom is rooted in our Constitution that Trump simply does not understand nor agree with.
2
Trying to wiggle around the Supreme Court's clear decision is nothing more than an attempt to impede the law.
Don the Con's oath of office centers around the duty to "uphold and defend" the Constitution and the laws.
This time it's not the IRS laws and regs that Trump is trying to bend to his set of "facts". This issue aims directly at the Constitutional mandate of fair census taking to ensure that our Constitutional mandate for fair Congressional representation is met.
Trump's action is laced with corruption and deceit. Unfortunately, the GOP and Senate want to play his game in their attempt to continue minority rule of a clearly progressive and forward thinking country.
Register to VOTE and get to the polls in November 2020...
4
Justice Dept. Reverses Course on Citizenship Question on Census, Citing Trump’s Orders
The census question is just another example of Trump sowing chaos while the other elements of the Administration’s malfeasance aids the corporate world. While Chaos reigns on whatever issue looks like it appeals to his base then we get the EPA dirtying the air and water and helping to melt the ice caps the corporate world publicly saying it supports reason and the ability to manage our future in the meantime it doesn’t want to pay for it. Wars support the coffers of the producers of materials and applied research for death and destruction. The wizard of Oz lives in the White House but unfortunately he’s also the President of the United States.
2
The damage is already done; the fear is sowed. Participation rates in some demographics will almost certainly be lower because of the fear that has been stoked. The controversy, however "settled" it might be, has accomplished at least two of its aims: 1) stoking said fear; 2) reducing the number of Congressional representatives from blue states. Never on a 4th of July have I felt so dispirited about the state of the union.
8
Interesting strategy:
Regardless of the eventual resolution of the issue, its mere presence, discussion, and further heated public debate will achieve a good part of the desired effect.
Scare minorities from voting.
Many will never be sure how it was resolved and whether they will be protected, even if resolved in favor of non-inclusion.
The loud discussion itself gets Trump his results.
Is this the source of the Rep's reticence to intervene and tell him to stop?
2
@Roger
How could a question about citizenship possibly dissuade a citizen from voting?
Liberal logic.
1
I guess I'm puzzled by all the fuss which I believe to be based on false assumptions. The citizenship question used to be on the census questionnaire. Wouldn't it be useful to know how many non-citizens there are? They deserve representation but non-citizens, be they immigrants or otherwise, can't vote anyway, so how would non-citizens affect the outcome of any federal election? I doubt if there is any evidence showing that adding it to the questionnaire as a way of increasing Republican is correct. If everyone is counted in a district it would possible change district boundaries, but how does that necessarily translate into benefitting either party? Conversely I doubt the charge that "immigrants" (the issue should be citizen v non-citizen not immigrant) would be reluctant to indicate whether they are, or are not citizens, would affect their completion of the form which is required under federal law.
4
@ECW, there is evidence that the citizenship question will enhance Republican representation. A 2015 study by Thomas Hofeller, a Republican strategist, showed this and he suggested that the Trump administration add the question. And any family that includes one or more undocumented immigrants could easily be afraid that acknowledging that would lead to those persons being deported.
4
@ECW I believe the appropriate word for this response is naive.
2
The madness continues. Our democracy declines. Will nothing be done about it? I'm afraid not.
People should be screaming in the streets. I hear nothing, and probably won't hear anything.
4
The Walter Cronkite Republican observes that the illegitimate justices now know what Mr. Trump thinks of them, the SCOTUS, the Constitution and any restriction on his tyranny in general.
4
Chief Justice Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it!", comes to mind.
Time (again) to start the impeachment inquiry.
11
Fail to answer the question and the GOP will have its way - there will be an undercount. Answer the question - pencil in "under protest" - IF the question gets on the census form. They were already printing the forms without it when Trump had his hissy fit.
2
As an accurate measure this census is now a deeply flawed instrument. It will need to be redone. And that path lies through removing the deeply flawed and illegitimate person in the WH.
6
Now trump wants to ignore SCOTUS decisions. The government's best effort to justify the question was seen as a sham. Going forward, all the emails from Hofeller will be entered into testimony which in itself shows the political (and immoral) motivation that should put an end to this. Stepping back, trump defies the two co-equal branches of government - Congress and the Judiciary. That is how dictatorships start. And we must speak up.
15
When is congress going to wake up to the fact that Trump represents an existential threat to the United States of America and impeach him already?
12
So, Mitch McConnell what now? The president openly defies the Supreme Court. Have you anything to say?
What will you do to protect this democracy from this law flouting tyrant?
12
Defying the SCOTUS to pursue a goal that decreases voter turnout strikes at the heart of democracy. If for some inexplicable reason he gets his tacked on citizenship question, I would love to see an installation of public art for which masses of people send in the sheet with the answer blank and the artist creates a lasting reminder of why democracy matters.
2
Zero respondents should answer the citizenship question if it appears on the census.
I've told others that DT is waiting for an issue where he can defy the SC, the last check on his power. If he gets away with it, then why should the obey the order of a lower court? With the GOP cowardice, an ineffectual D party, no legal oversight by any court, it's no surprise that we're having a 1934 Nuremberg like rally today. DT is celebrating his dictatorship, showing what he's capable of unleashing is anyone defies him.
10
Defying a Supreme Court decision is yet one more impeachable offense by this man. When is Congress going to do its Constitutional duty and remove him? Who is protecting our Constitution and our Republic? The answer, I fear, is nobody. When institutions fail, and the people are prevented from seeking constitutional redress of their very serious grievances, what recourse is left for the aggrieved majority in this once great nation? The answer to this last question should scare us all.
8
@Mike
Keep counting his impeachable offenses until you reach infinity.
The man is playing with all of us and with the inane Democratic congressional leadership the most.
1
DOJ is no longer independent, but merely a tool of Trump. Barr AND Trump should be impeached.
This is not America as our forefathers designed it in the Constitution. We need to teach our kids how the 3 branches of fed gov were intended to work, as well as the allocation of rights between the federal govt and the States, and the reservation of ALL OTHER RIGHTS TO THE PEOPLE.
We have a large proportion of people without a clue as to how and WHY this country was organized the way it.
Trump and his Cabinet are part of that group. Barr ought to know better.
7
This President has thwarted and evaded the constitutional responsibilities of the Congress. Now, he ignores a decision of the Supreme Court. He leaves the country with one choice: impeachment. Though I think the 25th Amendment might come in play, the supine cabinet would not go alone with that under any circumstances. And to think, this all comes to fruition on the Fourth of July.
13
I'm not sure why the question should not be there, The number of representatives in congress is determined by the population of each state. Some states have just two or three. Over the last ten years, some states have seen large increases in the number of unauthorized immigrants. The most, in about six states. There are some states with just one, two or three representative. Should those states with the largest increases in numbers of unauthorized immigrants, be able to take representatives from those states with few? Isn't congress suppose to serve the citizens of our country? It is one thing to assist states with large numbers but another thing to say unauthorized immigrants should determine the make up of our congress.
9
@Ron, the size of the House increased as the US population increased in our country’s first 130 years. This stopped after 1911, when the number of Representatives was fixed at 435. But our population has *tripled* since then. This means people in populous states are already less represented than people in smaller states. Why should smaller states exert even more power if immigrants are undercounted? The Senate already gives them more power.
2
@Ron I understand your point. However, at least two complications come to mind. First, I haven't seen numbers of the people who are not actually citizens but who may fall into gray areas: people applying for citizenship, people awaiting various rulings, people who are not citizens now but who may well be before 2030. In this political climate, many of these may be reluctant to be counted. More importantly, knowing how many people actually reside in a municipality is a vital planning tool for officials who must deal with the population they have, not the one they wish they had. While undocumented immigrants can't partake of many benefits due to citizens, cities and states must provide a number of basic services, and knowing how many people will be using those services can be more than useful, it can be essential. If you think about it, governments always have a legitimate interest in knowing how many people are actually living within their borders. Trends and shifts are also important to measure.
An accurate count is now impossible. The effects of this loss may be subtle for you and me, but they will be real.
1
The Commerce and Justice Department are doing exactly what the SCOTUS ordered on remand. The lower court will be examining the evidence that the SCOTUS found to be contrived, and comparing it to the Hofeller evidence in a related case. They will then issue a ruling.
The fact that the evidence also stated that the census forms had to be printed by July may also now be contradicted. That would be a minor development given that Justice now somehow has to reconcile its contrived prior claim that the policy was conceived as a way to enforce the Voting Rights Act with a new claim that can't help but contradicts.
The panic surrounding the Justice Department's reversal is overblown. It is also really great pep rally PR for both pro-Trump and anti-Trump activists. Unfortunately, it probably is also contributing to deep-seated fears about the census and the potential illegal uses to which government might put census information. That side-effect in itself is an alternate way of accomplishing the feat of discouraging census participation.
3
It appears that there is no law that Trump can't break, so I suggest that we all just skip filling out the census forms. If he does not need to follow the law it seems wrong that anyone else should.
8
Last time I checked we are suppose to represent the American people, a citizen question is required. Otherwise we have the wrong representation in Congress.
7
This census is a big deal. The extrapolation points to a reapportionment of Congresssional seats which will add two to Florida and three to Texas which is the biggest and taking two from NY. Those are the biggest alterations. However, in terms of Red state and Blue state Electoral College compared to 2016 results, the shift is virtually flat. In other words, states that favor Clinton and state that favored Trump both gain and lose seats equally. However, the distribution of Federal funds comes into play, of course. So, Texas and Florida and California have a lot at stake to have everyone counted. It seems the Founding Father wrote into the US Constitution the concept of representing all who reside here. They may not have contemplated the undocumented aspect but probably did consider the “no taxation without representation” concept which was integral to the Boston Tea Party. When the 13 Colonies and their inhabitants did not have voting rights.
4
What happens if they (trump and the Commerce Dept.) defy all court orders and print the forms with the citizenship question? This is not an absurd question. It's all leading up to the more important question....what happens when he won't leave after losing the election? Who will remove him? Who will enforce the law in this situation and all others?
Those whose job it is might not.
5
The damage hs already been done: Regardless of whether the citizenship qustion is in the census, millions of persons will duck the census completely and Trump will have ensured a lower count. At this point, I don't think it makes any difference what the census asks as many will refuse to answer. Remember, the census interviews people by name and by address, so persons can be located after the census. Trump has threatened mass deportations, so why would anyone worried about being deported trust the census to protect privacy?
3
The door to door interviews are planned to be done via smartphone app. These can be updated in the last moment. These interviews are intended to fix under counts and /or collect more detailed data. What’s to prevent slipping in the citizenship question then.
1
The Supreme Court has spoken. It is a co-equal branch of government with Congress and the Presidency.
The administration condoned the Supreme Court's decision, and initially stated that it would not proceed further, and the Census proceeded to printing.
Thereafter and consequentlyTrump has no right to unilaterally and subsequently change that determination, which has already approved for timely printing of the census, which occurred.
Trump has no right to unilaterally change the Supreme Court's determination. Period!
8
Separation of powers means nothing if one power decides to be royalty. Checks and balances are the reason our government has been relatively stable since the Constitution was written. Now that Congress refuses to rein in the man who would be king, and the Supreme Court is busy with vague Constitutional interpretation , the system is eroding. Happy Fourth of July.
9
The debates and primaries will, I am sure end up with a democratic challenger to Trump. Meanwhile, let's not get too distracted. Democrats in every state, especially those with republican governors, need to start now to make sure their are no voting irregularities, closed polling places, broken voting machines, shortened hours, electricity failures ...
Winning a few key states by a small margin got him elected.
He desperately needs to be re elected and will do anything to avoid losing because he thinks as president he will be immune to all the fed, state, and local charges piling up.
But the minute he walks out of the white house a private citizen those charges will bury him, and he will receive the maximum punishment for every one of them.
4
The big winner on the Census will be Amazon which will earn a billion dollars from the federal government collecting data and never look at the data for their own profit. Yea right. Amazon will use their profits to subsidized their retail operations which operate at a loss to drive brick and mortar stores out of business. Force Amazon to break their retail operations away from Amazon Web Services and its multi billion dollar government contracts. Break up Amazon.
1
The more pertinent question is should a sanctuary state that refuses to adhere to the immigration laws of this country benefit from it? As several federal funding programs and legislative representation is based on the census, counting an individual here illegally should not occur. If you want to be a sanctuary state, then you must bear the cost. Benefiting from an illegal act is not condoned in our society.
7
@George Unless that illegal act involves benefiting from election assistance from the Russian government.
3
It's going back on the census as it has been most of the time. Who removed it? Pres. Obama. Why? Good to know how many citizens in our country and how to distribute representation based upon the number of citizens.
5
@2observe2b
The question was removed in 1950.
4
@2observe2b,
Totally agree. The operative word is Citizen!!!
You should only count Citizens!!!!
1
I'll fill out the census but not answer the question. I'd rather pay the fine.
4
Yes, either skip the question on the census or better yet--don't return the census at all. What would happen if millions of people did not fill it out?
4
@Joseph They would loose funding .
1
Let us be clear. Marbury is under threat. It is the last anchor to hold back a runaway Executive branch.
They say Chief justice Roberts is keen on protecting the institution. Roberts will write a majority opinion reiterating Marbury.
...and Trump will thumb his nose.
Welcome to the final act of a disappearing constitutional democracy.
l'état, c'est moi.
22
@Vasu Srinivasan
The trump dictatorship is just around the corner!
Where are my representatives in Congress? Wait...where am I? What country am I in?
21
Trump is dangerous and a threat. To our democracy. His apparent desire to ignore or get around the court system and admiration for Putin and Kim reveals a contempt for constitutional limits and the rule of law that is so troubling that adjectives fail to suffice.
19
@Robert F
And he is the one, with Mitch to pack the courts!
1
Donald Trump must be defeated in the 2020 presidential election. He is attempting to change US systems to best suit his re-election and future Trump family bid(s) for the presidency. I've stated any number of times I expect he will try an executive order to change the two-term limit so he can stay in office for a third term.
12
The US Census states ‘Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State’. Non-citizens should not be counted in this process and it is clear that was the intention of the language - please go and read it. We should know the total number of people in each state and how many are non-citizens. Not knowing is ignoring what is useful data.
16
Where do you get the notion that non-citizens should not be counted ? The Constitution verbiage you posted seems to say they should.
3
Good advice! If you’ll read what you quoted, you’ll notice the requirement is to count “whole persons”, not “citizens”. The intent is indeed clear: clearly not what you assert.
The census counts people, because democracy. The government represents the people, including those who don’t vote for it, including those who can’t vote for it.
Besides, we already count citizens a different way, more accurately than we would by asking the question on the decennial census. If that’s really what you want, it’s already being done.
2
@Brian
I am reading it and it says "whole number of persons in each State." Nothing about citizens or non-citizens.
3
Since Trump claims to be a "stable genius" then it should be no problem for him to provide a rational reason to have the citizenship question in the census.
4
@William
If you can’t think up a reason why we might want to know how many people are here illegally, your degree in basket weaving didn’t work out so well.
SCOTUS has no army. And whether Trump adds the question anyway - or just cancels the 2020 census (both acts illegal) won't matter because if the House impeaches the GOP Senate will not convict. The dictatorship (he won't leave office either, no matter the outcome of the election) has begun. Game over.
11
There is a reason that the media has not emphasised that John Robert's has in essence sided with the Democrats on saying NO to the census question. However, he flubbed his announcement on the decision by saying, paraphrasing), "We don't like what you are trying to do here, so we will give you a second chance to come up with new lies". Instead of simple saying NO to the census, by a 5-4 vote, he left a small crack open which Trump is now trying to squeeze through. Let's hope the crack closes soon and shame on the Chief Justice for trying to give the result to both sides.
20
@James Lochrie
I’m not sure how else Roberts could have handled the case without wading too deeply into the political. On the face of it, asking the citizenship question is perfectly legal, as evidenced by the fact that it has been done many times in the past. On what realistic basis would he justify a simple “no”? I think he did it just right.
1
We have a President who refuses to abide by a ruling from the highest court in the land. (They were given an option by the Supreme Court to give an honest reason for the census question by July 1 but clearly were unable to do that)
This is a constitution crisis.
19
IMHO: They can include the citizenship question only if there are 3 options:
Yes.
No.
None of your business.
We must then urge all patriots to choose number 3. Trump has used that choice when asked about his plans regarding a meeting with Putin. Surely he will understand.
11
Once again, the optics are horrible from the perspective of the average citizen. Under what rationale should political clout be apportioned based upon people who are here illegally? Representation is a zero-sum-game, so more members of Congress (and hence electoral votes) for states that openly flaunt our immigration laws results in fewer members of Congress and electoral votes for those states that enforce them. Try explaining to Joe and Jane Sixpack in 30 seconds why this is fair and reasonable and then ask for their reaction.
17
States do not ‘flaunt’ the laws. The laws are Federal. It is the Federal Gov’t responsibility to enforce Federal Laws. States sit by idly while Congress and Executive branches flail.
1
I think you miss the point. The constitutional requirement of taking a census every 10 years asks for a count of all *persons*. There is no reference to citizenship.
8
@Glenn Thomas Then why have the vast majority of past censuses included a question about citizenship if it was unconstitutional or irrelevant? The current Supreme Court found no problem with reintroducing a question about citizenship (it was cleverly omitted by the Obama administration in 2010). The majority only had an issue with the executive branch's description of how they arrived at the decision to reintroduce the citizenship question, as in, it's not nice to lie to the court or the public. Regardless, it's hard to imagine that the Framers could conceive of 11 million people being in the U.S. illegally when they admittedly used sloppy language. But please, feel free to share your sophistry with Joe and Jane Sixpack and see if they buy it out in Middle America.
1
Something needs to happen in the US!
People wake up!
Go and vote!!
Take back the Senate as well!!
16
Reading this makes me sick to my stomach. We the people will rise up. And when we do, God help the receivers of our wrath.
13
“I can’t possibly predict at this juncture exactly what’s going to happen...”
This quote accurately describes the record of this administration to date.
17
My mom keeps telling me... "just wait... when he is out of office, New York or some other city is going to lock him up!"
And I'm like "he'll just say no and walk away from the arrest leaving the cops scratching their heads..."
---
This administration blatantly defies laws, norms, traditions... and yes, court orders... and no one seems to be able to do anything about it.
When the court almost stopped this question earlier this week, I had called it the first progressive victory in three years... I spoke too soon.
If it's deviant, subversive, and anti-democratic... of course this administration is going to get it done. Call them incompetent all day long, but they have had zero problem upending democracy and no one seems to be able to do anything about it.
29
Don't answer the question.
If it's there on the questionnaire strike through it with a thick black magic marker.
Don't answer the question.
22
@Chip Steiner By not answering we in fact have answered it.
Are US census questionnaires sent to those living in foreign countries? Surely the citizenship question must be asked in that situation.
What if a noncitizen is counted in 2020 then the government funding would be misallocated, shorting citizens in other districts for the next 10 years.
If this is the only way a politician can hold onto power - they should find a different line of work
11
Does a non-citizen still have to pay taxes?
@Pierre Desir. Do your homework. Yes, they do.
2
This is really chilling... is there no one in Washington who has the guts to stand up to this tyrant?
26
Fighting fascism should be the one issue energizing the democratic debates.
All other issues become moot points.
Healthcare, climate change, education, infrastructure will be meaningless to discuss should the fascist policies of Trump continue.
Institutions that support democracy are being eviscerated and the real powerbase representing the people in totality has shifted to the very rich.
Trump is the real deal. We have to go back to the civil war to find something this threatening to the nation.
But, if we can remove him, and that is looking more and more doubtful by the day as dems fight these eternal identity battles, we will have to ask how we got to where we are.
Too much power in the billionaire class, a propaganda tool at Fox, politicians being bought and a complacent, ignorant population, an armed insurgency armed by the NRA who, ironically, shouted tyranny when Obama was in office, got us here.
These are the real threats.
Question for dems in the debates: how do you defang the billionaire class? How do you muzzle the propaganda tool at Fox? How do you disarm the unorganized mob-militia set up by the NRA? How do you energize a complacent and ignorant population to do what is in their own best interests?
These are real debating points. Healthcare? Do we really believe this is going to change as long as the present corporate-political structure remains in place?
Articulate the fascism, debate, and fight it.
27
@tom you're still thinking a democratic process can save us. I'm not so sure about that for a long time now.
7
Let's look at the points a out the debates: yes, I agree with you.
Seriously. it is as though the Democratic Party is about a bunch of individual candidates out for whatever "thing" they can do, position they can take, or plan they can serve up, to right a social injustice, provide more healthcare to more people, educate more people, blah, blah, blah. Does society need these things? Yes. But you don't bring home food and attempt to put in the refrigerator to feed your hungry kids when a 3 alarm fire is blazing in your house. That is not the time to discuss grocery shopping. Give me a break.
The biggest problem this nation, including Democrats, face, is Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell, and their ilk. Trump is lawless, authoritarian and may be the end of American democracy.
Honestly. Democrats just do not understand politics and how to WIN elections consistently. They do not know how to craft a position and sell it it effectively to the American people.
Trump and the GOP sell fear. people buy based on emotion, not facts, and fear is the strongest emotion of all. Normally it isn't effective or appropriate to knock the competition in sales. it turns buyers off. This has gone beyond competition. This is a war about democracy. Trump.is using rhetorical nuclear war on democracy, with Mitch McConnell as co-pilot and the Democrats are playing civic club.
This has been going on for 50 years. Wake up, Democrats.
12
@Albert
On that point, I agree. But, we need to start calling this thing what it is. It is not normal. It is not right. It is fascism and it has that telltale mark of fascism - the terrible malodourous air of racism that permeates and runs through it. What is all this outcry against immigrants at the border? Why the arming of white America? And the dems and the press . . . (what was Chuck Todd doing? What are the dems thinking of putting the whole party up there on stage? Anybody who woke up thinking they were presidential material got a seat at the table.)
I want to see democratic senators and representatives getting in the maws of their republican opponents. I want to see protest marches. Decency and humanity had two elections taken by the fascists. Decency and humanity had a supreme court justice stolen.
Does the GOP actually need to wear skull and crossbones as insignia for us to recognize them for who they are?
And, yet, we are debating raising taxes on the wealthy, debating healthcare for all, etc.
None of this will happen until the GOP has been properly depicted as who they really are - fascists. Give them their proper identifying label and go after them, minute by minute, day by day, week by week from one month to the next until they are consigned to the dustbin of history. And let us not kid ourselves, the potential for violence is there and if it begins they will start it. For they hate more than they elevate.
2
Can you imagine the chapters in the history books describing this odd detour in American democracy?
People in future decades will read it going "Whaaaaat?"
9
@LibertyLover I'm sure they were saying that in the days of the Roman Empire as well. But that empire is now long gone.
3
Trump hates hearing he caved on the citizenship question, and now he wants backsees. He only watches Fox. How did he find out?
6
This is Trump's style, if it arises to that. Undermine his staff at every turn. It means that no-one can trust anything this administration ration says about anything. The rest of the planet do not trust us at all anymore and the degradation of institutions and trust is endemic. I hope the court shoves this in his face. MAGA and drain the swamp = defeating Trump, the most corrupt administration, well maybe ever, but at least back to U.S. Grant.
7
The Justice Department may need a name change under the Trump maladministration to the Injustice Department.
16
I wonder what he’ll do when he loses the election?
10
Does the Justice Department have to do it just because he told them to?
8
Mr. Trump is dangerous to himself and others. That means that there is only one lawful disposition for his administration and his corpus.
4
Dear Editorial Board,
I live in conditions that are nothing like yours. Many of you, I'm sure, would like to lend me a hand. If I show up at your door step with nothing to eat and no where to lay my head, would you take me and my 9 children in, feed and clothe us, provide us with medical care, transportation, good jobs, nice schools, trash collection, entertainment, and more for free? (I knew you would!)
Thank you so much! BTW, since you are probably wondering, yes I do. I have 679 cousins, aunts, and uncles, dozens of sisters and brothers, in laws galore, plus my best friends and their friends, their families and relatives, grandparents, great-grandparents and away we go! You won't mind if they join me at your place, right? Not a one of us lives like you all. I'm sure you agree that you owe all of us whatever you can give us to set us on an a more equal footing, correct?
How's tomorrow, 7 am sharp, at your place for breakfast?
15
Can I join your family? Please?
I am tired of going to work 5 days a week, raising kids, paying mortgage, feeding my family. I would also like the free health care you will get. Thanks for your consideration!
2
Does any sentient human being need more evidence that Trump regards himself as a dictator, who can do whatever he wants, disregarding the Constitution, the Supreme Court, and long accepted standards of behavior for a POTUS?
It is no longer possible for any Trump supporter to claim that they believe in the rule of law in the USA in 2019. If we are to have even the pretense of being anything better than a banana republic, there must be a strong & unending condemnation of this reckless assault on our democracy.
It is easy to understand why Trump loves to associate with brutal dictators from all over the world, while alienating our longtime democratic allies. He fancies himself as another Putin, MBS, or Kim. We will, only begin to again resemble a democracy once this dangerous man is removed fro office.
12
In case people haven't been paying attention, we have an individual who is head of the executive department of the US government who through either idiocy or calculated plan is dismantling the institutions of our representative democracy
Take a look at what each of his cabinet secretaries are doing to destroy the very purpose and functions of their departments. Take a look at the executive orders. Take a look at the oddball foreign policy that praises dictators and criticizes our allies. Take a look at the contempt for the rule of law.
Please read the Declaration of Independence today and the list of charges against King George III that compelled those men to declare their independence from a tyrant.
Now draw up a list of grievances that can be leveled at this president.
It's time to declare our independence from this authoritarian saboteur of our democracy and demand his removal either by conviction on articles of Impeachment or by demanding that he resign.
This is our country, our cherished liberal democracy (so detested by Putin) and no narcissist tyrant wannabe should be allowed anywhere near our hard won independence that has been defended with the lives of thousands of Americans.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
13
What would Jesus do? What will evangelicals do?
They will vote for trump in 2020. Watch.
7
This whole issue of the citizenship question and how it has gotten the left in to so overwrought shows the mastery of President Trump. He's like a trolling fisherman throwing chum to the political intelligentsia and then watching the feeding frenzy that ensues!
Let's face it, the administrative state (aka the deep state) have brought this issue on themselves when they started to use census data as the driver for the allocation of so much Federal funding - funding that should rightfully be accruing to the States for their own dispersal as their constituents see fit. Case in point, the Federal government should NOT be collecting a gas tax that they then take a vig on and set all sorts of condition on before passing it back through to the States.
And all the busybody lawyers and armchair constitutional scholars commenting here, are the usual know-it-alls that America is sick of having boss them around.
The Commerce Department, "...in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. ..." is tasked with formulating the census. Given that, precedent is there for asking about citizenship. As there is about slaves (only 3/5 a vote!) and Indians not taxed (aren't most on welfare, so shouldn't they not be used for apportionment of House seats?!)
As usual, we're seeing typical liberal judicial overreach in this instance, so President Trump is right to ignore unconstitutional legislation from the bench.
4
@Common Sense. What is your difficulty with the word, “Supreme”?
5
Bravo! So well spoken. I totally agree with you and hope Mr. Trump succeeds in asking the question.
1
All I got is 1365 characters of swear words and the additional information that the character wall here won't stop me from aggravating global heating by screaming and swearing on.
1
Since the US Census is constitutionally mandated, isn't THIS the "constitutional crisis" that's been predicted since the day Trump was sworn in? Or perhaps the first in a series?
4
With the way things are going in the country today, who would want to come here and become a citizen in the first place?
9
I personally think people should stop getting so upset about it for 2 reasons.
1. The census has not been right is over 75 years. To be frank I cant say I even know someone that doesnt just throw them away.
2. Nothing stopping them from lying about it.
1
Coud someone please tell me why would it be not appropiate to ask the voter if he/she/pleaseaddyourdesiredgender has the right to vote, it is if the voter is a citizen or not. I thought even democrats were for free and fair elections. My bad if I was wrong.
4
Knock it off already with the citizenship questions.
The mission of the census is to count people. So limit the job to that - count people. Maybe break it down by gender and age but that is it. Anything else is intrusive and goes beyond what we expect from the census.
8
Seriously? I would rather answer a question about citizen than about gender. Why should the government care about my gender?
1
There is a precedent for the census question about citizenship. The 1920 Census asked respondants if they had been naturalized and if so, when.
5
The underlying issue that makes the citizen question so explosive is the differentiation of representation and ability to vote. An example. A green card holder pays taxes and needs representation but can not vote - represnetation and taxation go together. Who has the right to vote (citizens that is) is independant of this question.
The hidden explosive in this question is such that a conservative administration could mistake citizenship = representation and rewrite the rules:
Here is a Gedankenexperiment; There is a state with 1 million inhabitants of which 900ooo are tax-paying non-citizens (legal). The neighboring state has 100ooo inhabitants, all citizens. Currently - in a highly simplified picture- the first state receives a 10x amount of fed dollars, electoral college members, members of congress etc.
In a world where only citizenship would count, both states would receive the same amount of electoral college members, federal dollars, and representatives. THEREFORE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PEOPLE MIGHT WIND UP WITHOUT REPRESENTATION AT ALL. This would probably not what our founding fathers envisioned.....I think both Washington and Lincoln would be appalled.
7
It is clear that Barr is going to do Trump's bidding, and that the NYAG and SDNY need to get involved if he is going to be held accountable for his past crimes. Let the incoming 2020 government indict him for the crimes committed while in office - Congress seems to lack the guts to do so. But make it clear by issuing indictments that there is a criminal occupying the Oval Office.
4
While Trump is the cause of this dysfunction, it is the GOP that owns it. The GOP must never, never be allowed to walk away from this, which they will try to do as soon as Trump leaves office. Each and everyone will, upon his departure, attempt to distance themselves from the disaster of a president.
We must not let them.
8
This is bizarre. I'm a liberal and I can see both sides of this issue which is why it deserved to be heard in the Supreme Court.
Otoh, we need an accurate count of how many people live where.
Otoh, a count of citizens who can vote vs. non citizens who can't would help in apportioning how many Representatives should be assigned to a particular geographical area.
The Supreme Court made a decision. Now it seems that Trump wants to usurp the function of the Court which is why I will not be voting for Trump and I urge others to do likewise.
3
Those who are opposed to including a question regarding citizenship are the ones with the clear agenda -- an agenda to pump up the clout of an illegal population which they believe will -- sooner or later -- become eligible to vote, and who will vote exclusively for one particular party, The Democrat Party. Liberal progressives know their days are numbered simply because they are not having children, certainly not enough to replace their ever depleting numbers. In order to stay alive politically they need millions of gate crashers whom they can champion in order to achieve this goal. But the fact is, if I do not own shares in AT&T I have no say in AT&T. The same should hold true regarding the most important corporation of all, The United States. A census should indeed inform government of who, how many, and where its legitimate constituents are. Stakeholders should have a say in management, shoplifters should not. Citizens of the United States should have at least this much control over their near term destiny. By not including citizenship data the census becomes meaningless except as a cover for unfettered spending on people who have no legal right to be in the US.
5
If this GOP administration ends up being successful at adding this question to the census, my plan is to participate in the census and NOT answer this question. They can fine me or whatever. I do not care. I'm tired of this GOP administration and have been since its inception. I encourage all like-minded Americans and others to resist this descent into autocracy.
8
Trump couldn't have grown up in our nation learning what we learned. He just doesn't understand us. I know he spent his formative adolescent years in a military school, but what about before that? To know the man, study what he studied.
3
The question of citizenship the Census does not by itself worry me too much. The motives of the current administration for its inclusion may.
More importantly, though, is the precipice on which we stand with the President in open defiance of a Supreme Court ruling.
Without our elected officials, both Republican, Democrat and others, standing up to this threat, there is real consequences to the fabric and future of our once great America.
9
The President did not defy any Supreme Court ruling. The majority opinion written by Justice Roberts practically invites the President to try to add the citizenship question again using a better rationale, in particular one not dependent on false or dubious statements of fact about the motive for its inclusion.
2
If I were cynical and did not have faith in the integrity of the Executive Branch of our government, I would think the request by special counsel for executive branch litigation, Joshua Gardner, to delay Judge Hazel's order to the Trump administration to make up its mind about the citizen question was made because he needs more time to make something up.
5
Republican Vested Business Interests Party
Freedom to be consumers controlled by anti-democratic forces. Freedom to let corporate America pull the wool over your consumerist eyes by the usual entrenched interests.
Freedom to have no control over decisions except in shopping.
"Free" Market Wholly Controlled by Entrenched Interests.
Freedom for Big Business to freely start on the fifty-yard line.
Freedom for consumerist illusions of Freedom.
Freedom for the Largest Income and Wealth Inequality in Human History to Expand to the Point Wherein the "Free Individual" Has Mostly No Say in Decisions of Health, Health Care, Public Education From Pre-K through University and the Environment As She and He Freely SHOP If and When They Can Afford it.
4
If the question does end up on the census, would it help if everyone vowed to leave it blank?
3
This can't be repeated often enough: The people who defend the citizenship question are defending their decision by saying non-citizens shouldn't be counted.
If non-citizens answer the citizenship question, they will be counted. This means the question will make no difference. The electoral votes will not change, because non-citizens still count as population.
If you defend a citizenship question by saying non-citizens shouldn't count, you are encouraging criminal activity. You're saying you WANT non-citizens to avoid the census entirely. And you're openly admitting that the purpose of the citizenship question is to stop people from responding to the census.
You're saying you want the census results to not be accurate. You want to sabotage the census by scaring people so much that they won't respond, even though the law requires them to. Instead of ruining the census, why don't you do something to change the system? If you don't believe non-citizens should count as population, or if you believe that a state's number of electoral votes should depend on the number of citizens instead, then change the rules.
I think it'll backfire in the end. You want to take electoral votes away from California. But Texas and Florida would lose a massive number of electoral votes, as would dozens of farming states that depend on the labor of illegal immigrants.
7
Trump is running the country as if it’s his private business. So there isn’t any reason for him to adhere to the law or his Oath of office. I keep hearing the question, what is Congress going to do? How can the GOP sit idly by or are they part of this slow moving coup?
13
President Trump is setting a new standard. The President can act like a King and ignore the Congress and defy the Courts.
If he loses the next President may follow suit and target the Trumps for retribution - a part of me hopes that she does.
8
Can someone propose a constitutional amendment to the effect that "No U.S. Government official shall make any executive order, official position, policy statement, statutory law, or any statement that might be interpreted as reflective of official U. S. Government regulation, order, position or law via Facebook, Twitter, or any other "social media" vehicle. Each instance of infraction shall be punishable by 6 months in prison or one month of salary." I'm sure this should be fine tuned, but the jist is that the executive officers of the U.S. SHALL NOT USE TWITTER! My guess is that public support for this would be overwhelming.
41
No wonder at all that this incompetent was able to repeatedly go bankrupt running a casino.
51
It is time to lock him up.
47
DJ Trump seems to think that everything is a double-or-nothing game that only ends when he gets double. All of the adults need to say "Just say no!" (to quote someone I never thought I'd quote). Game over, Donnie.
15
The GOP is acting like they won't win the next election without cheating. I find that somewhat comforting that at least they are desperate.
31
Of course there is legal reason to include the question. We need to know how many of the people living in the United States are citizens so the US Government can properly plan resources and strategic plans to allocate funding to help those population centers that are growing/shrinking without letting the count of illegal immigrants get in the way of US Taxpayers supporting US citizens.
I believe they call this...the 14th Amendment.
IT's right there...under the Equal Protection Clause.
14
@Erica Smythe
The Decennial Census, according to the Constitution, only calls for a population count; there’s nothing in there about citizenship.
Immigrants, both with and without documentation, pay taxes (FICA, state and federal income taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, etc.). Whether owning a home or renting, both documented and undocumented immigrants contribute to property taxes.
Studies have shown that immigrants contribute more than they receive from social programs in the USA. Think of all the undocumented immigrants paying those FICA taxes ... like Social Security and Medicare, which they’ll never be eligible to collect in their old age. As a retired person, I appreciate the “donation”, but it’s still wrong and an injustice.
47
Illegal immigrants are often tax payers, too — sales tax, at the very least, as well as property tax.
6
@Donna Nieckula
Hi Donna,
Would you cite the studies you reference and how do you know immigrants here illegally pay taxes?
2
Michael Lewis' Fifth Risk at full display. It is needs years of diligent work and is unspectacular to create a well-working administration; it only needs a malicious flick of the wrist and is spectacular to throw a wrench in its gears.
9
This is just another distraction, of course.
What's scary, though, is that this is also a warning. If you think Trump is going to accept the 2020 election results, you need to look what's happening here.
33
Interesting piece of photo art to go with story. Wonder who paid for the printing of the signs, how large the crowd, and if even half of them can read the signs they're carrying.
7
I have a compromise solution: Let the administration add the citizenship question provided they also add a question as to whether this president should be impeached.
Win win
19
@JZF
For a guy who lives on an island that borders penguins and sharks, not a bad idea. If it gets a full accounting of citizens, Trump won't have to worry about impeachment--even a win for the penguins and sharks off New Zealand.
I am planning, and am telling my friends to do the same, to refuse to answer any Census question about citizenship. Refusal to answer a single question is not breaking the law and at most will lead to follow up inquiries by Census personnel. Follow-up costs the Census/US government money. The inclusion of this question is a bad idea all around. We cannot allow undocumented people to go uncounted because they contribute to our economy, our diversity, and because we are better than the Trump administration.
20
How about also not answering questions about race and ethnicity? All these are doing is allowing the government to perpetuate divisions by race and ethnicity when we should be focusing on divisions by economic inequalities.
6
@ Ms Scaritt Please ignore the fuss and scaredy tactics. Mr president push and shove wants to upset the count. Don’t lose your concentration. See what Trump is doing? Making the census an unpleasant event, rather than a proud achievement of the citizenry.
@Ms. Scarritt
Hi Ms. Scarritt,
I am having a cancerous tumor in my leg removed. Would you mind giving me $100,000 for the surgery and to save my life?
Thanks so much
2
The irony is that for years, this President has relied heavily on the judicial system in his business career. Now that he receives an adverse ruling, despite appointing two judges to the Supreme Court, he believes it is entirely appropriate to simply ignore those decisions.
21
This is it. This is the moment the entire sham of American "democracy" is completely exposed.
This is the moment the world's understanding of the USA shifts from admiration/resentment/puzzlement to derision. The world's most powerful nation is a farce.
35
Now Trump is suggesting the citizenship question could still be added after the census is printed. I’m not sure that this is possible, but it’s certainly likely that he will try to do it. I think that an insert could be added, or it may be possible to print the question on the already prepared census form itself. Either way, SCOTUS should never have issued the ‘wrong reason to add, try again’ option.
14
Only America would navel gaze about a census citizenship question. Your Canadian neighbours to your north do ask the citizenship question on the Canadian census...... But of course, the question in Canada does not determine who receives health care, what jurisdiction people vote in, or federal member of Parliament voting ridings. Take a deep breath America, just ask the citizenship question with no strings attached.
7
You know not of what you speak. American fascism will creep, until it pounces. Every step must be thwarted. Canada is a great country, but has not nearly the depth and magnitude, and dare I say national identity of our immigration tradition.
14
@NorthernArbiter
With Republicans and, especially, Trump, there are always strings attached.
A citizenship question may be innocuous in Canada, but it’s harmful in the USA. Coming from Republicans in the USA, the purposes of the citizenship question can only be to entrench one-party/Republican rule and to render Democrats impotent/ineffectual.
17
Render Democrats ineffectual? I think they’ve pretty much self inflicted that on themselves already.
1
At this point whoever still supports Trump should shed all pretense about their patriotism, their allegiance to the Constitution, and their support for democracy and rule of law.
41
Perhaps my moral compass is way off here, but using 'the rule of law' argument to protect flagrant law breaking by law makers and self-appointed pontifs smacks of moronic hypocrisy.
9
Elections have consequences!!!
7
Within the limits of the Constitution and rule of law. Get it?
4
Corruption, like in Russia.
12
Asking a citizenship question was specifically allowed by the court decision. The question is no different from asking your age,name or marital status.
Due to encouraging illegal immigration California has hijacked 4 to 5 additional house seats that in effect represent illegal aliens and non citizens. This deprived States of Texas, Florida, Virginia and Montana of their rightful representation.
If the Demo Mob seeks to gerrymander by not deporting illegal aliens, these growing States are being illegally denied representation.
Real voter suppression by demo Mob.
16
Really?
17
@Bummero
"Asking a citizenship question was specifically allowed by the court decision..."
O, really? Care to share the specifics and the quote?
23
@Bummero
Non citizens don’t vote, so this has nothing to do with voter suppression.
The only aim of adding a citizenship question is to lower response rates among immigrant communities... which affects Congressional districting and the distribution of federal revenues.
I happen to value education, healthcare, and other services that “promote the general Welfare” for citizens and non-citizens alike. But, then, I am not religious (like others claim to be).
33
Failing to ask on a census questionnaire whether the subject is a citizen of the country. How ridiculous! Potentially any question can be used ultimately in an attempt to sideline one or another minority group. But that is a separate issue which needs to be addressed by a separate set of actions. The country needs to know how many people living there actually owe it any allegiance. Calculating citizen numbers is the core purpose of the census. One despairs!
20
@ David Pollard
One does despair when 60 million Trump voters owe allegiance to him, not America.
28
@David pollard
Read US Constitution and UN guidance on Census instead of "despairing".
Asking whether the subject is a citizen of the country is not the purpose nor objective of the Census.
17
@David pollard
A census is a political weapon as well as a social document.
It provides information on where resources are most needed and also enables political parties to gerrymander voting districts according to peoples' probable voting preferences.
Patriotism has little to do with it.
8
Should illegal aliens be able to vote for president?
10
No, and neither should Martians. But your comment has nothing to do with trump corrupting the census, which calls for counting all individuals who reside in the United States.
35
@Marcus Aurelius
Oh, only all the thorough studies of voter fraud ever conducted, which found nil to negligible voter fraud. There was that one case of the poor woman who did not understand she could not vote, in Texas - but she was a citizen.
However, what many studies have found is that the GOP has been active in suppressing the voting rights of black Americans, for many years and continuing through to today. That is the real voting fraud scandal - the fraudulent lies of the Commander-in-Chief and his partners in crime, like Mitch.
29
@Papa Bumpy
Census data are used to determine the number of congressional districts, which translate to electoral votes.
Counting illegals in the census gives states with a lot of them an unjustifiable number of representatives.
Section 2 of the 14th amendment implies that the right to vote can be denied to people, and the number of representatives of that state can be adjusted accordingly.
7
Dear NYT:
It is not inconsistent to begin printing census questionaires while still pursuing an appeal of the lower court decisions, especially given the Supreme Court remand for the Commerce Department to simply state a facially valid reason or reasons for including a citizenship question.
Does all of your Trump coverage have to be so sensational and always delivered in tabloid superlatives?
Get a grip.
13
You’re right. Trump really is the greatest president in the history of the world!!!!!!
5
If you don't measure, it's hard to improve. The census is a vital tool to understand our profile as a country. Asking inappropriate questions tends to skew the census results, hence the major concern on overturning a Supreme Court decision in addition to the flagrant act itself.
12
@Jorge, it's simply reporting on what Trump says, which only matters because he occupies the White House and has fate of the world in his little hands. And everything - everything - he says or does is a superlative - the greatest, the worst, the biggest, etc. That said, I am a citizen, but if there is such a question on the census, I won't be answering it.
25
More votes for Democrats other countries don't care if you're a citizen they just send checks in mail why can't usa be like that other countries dont have borders other countries don't have oac to lie
3
Do you think illegal aliens should have the right to determine the president? Census data are used to determine the number of congressional districts, which translate to electoral votes.
Counting illegals in the census gives states with a lot of them an unjustifiable number of representatives.
Section 2 of the 14th amendment implies that the right to vote can be denied to people, and the number of representatives of that state can be adjusted accordingly.
17
@Raz
So, that’s why Bush2 won in 2000 and Trump won in 2016?
12
It gives them resources with which to serve people who are actually living there.
18
@Raz
You completely miss the point. This question is designed to intimidate EVERYONE--even citizens. The head count in the census is to provide everyone living in the US with representation and services. Our Congress represents everyone living in their districts, not just citizens. This includes legal residents and people who have been waiting for years for citizenship hearings. They pay taxes! They need services. People who think that the only people affected are "illegals" need to go back to junior high civics class.
47
Hopefully the President sticks to his guns. I am proud of my American Citizenship and look forward to declaring it on the census form. If the question doesn't appear I will write it in, in large CAPITAL LETTERS.
13
@Donald
I agree!
1
Somehow I doubt the slaves who were counted as 3/5 of a person for the original 1790 census felt the same way.
28
@Donald Perhaps you should declare it on your passport, too. It would be equally meaningful... that is, not at all meaningful.
3
"It was the second time in two days that Mr. Trump said he was directing the Commerce Department to defy a decision made by the Supreme Court..."
Just let that sink in for a moment.
On the eve of our birthday celebration of our American democracy, our president spits on the very foundations of that democracy.
4058
@Mr. Bantree, Maybe 45 is "directing" the commerce department to defy" the Supreme Court decision, but the forms are already being printed and the question will not be on the census. HOWEVER, he looks really big, threatening, decisive and powerful to his base. As long as the MAGA crowd believes it, but it is not happening -- win-win.
182
@Mr. Bantree yep about right. But he may have tanks tomorrow on the streets of DC -- destroying our infrastructure with their heavy weight. Though, I guess another item to add to infrastructure week (sarcasm intended).
133
@pedigrees
Now get EVERYONE in Ohio to THROW TRUMP OUT if they have any respect for their state and their country.
85
If a community has 100 people, 70 of whom are US citizens, 20 are legal noncitizens and 10 are illegal aliens, then the resources allocated by the federal government and congressional districts should be based on 90 people, not 100. No resources should be allocated to include illegal aliens.
15
@JQGALT : Because that will do what? Make them disappear? Or maintain a perpetual underclass of 10% of the population with poor health and uneducated, unemployable youth?
18
Apparently, the faction formerly known as the Democratic Party is still unable to discern the difference between a ‘citizen’ and a ‘foreign national’....a rather significant distinction where congressional districts and allocation of $Billions in federal funds are at stake.
So unfortunate, considering that Democrats were once considered members of the ‘thinking class’....
14
@Michal
So you think that the United States provides representation and services only for citizens? There are millions in the US who work and pay taxes but are not citizens. They are served by the government, and have in fact paid for it. This kind of jingoism is utterly devoid of the slightest understanding of our nation and how it functions.
56
The census is to count the number of people in the country, not citizens.
39
The Census clause of the constitution refers to “persons” not citizens. Think (and maybe even read) before you post.
40
California and New York should get more Representatives, electoral votes and federal money to reflect the hordes of illegals they encourage to invade us. Right!
This is why Civil War II lurks just over the horizon.
15
@Upton
The Union always wins, but sure, go ahead and try Reb! Gonna bring slavery back too?!
13
Love the cover photo of protestors holding signs that say - "America needs a Fair and Accurate #2020 Census". Somehow I don't think these people and fully agree on what these words mean. I think what they want is for our government not to know how many illegal aliens we have in our country. Eleven million isthd number bandied about but a recent Yale study says it's 22-million. This is outrageous. Why should Congressional Districts be setup based upon illegal immigration? And no, it's not settled law as to whether illegals should be counted. We do need a Fair and Accurate Census. Especially one whose results are Fair to American Citizens. Free education and healthcare for illegals is a sure winner for President Trump.
17
Imagine some Swiss city like Zurich deciding to let thousands sneak illegally and getting designated significantly more representatives to have more power in there national agenda. Crazy!
4
@ Bob
When you’re loving the fact that you got here first more than you love the Constitution, you’re a real patriot?!
9
@Bob
Non citizens pay taxes in the United States, and can and should expect both representation and services. They use transportation and public facilities just like citizens, and bona-fide citizens are hurt when there is an undercount. The jingoistic self-centered myopic people who can't stop focusing on some idea about undeserving people getting "free stuff" so they shouldn't be counted are completely devoid of any concept of how our nation works.
20
Now Trump has undermined the validity of the census without having had it printed yet.
9
I think I will be crazy by next election. He has no respect for our governmental our rule of law. And our elected officials are a.lowing this.
14
When Hong Kong faced the threat to the rule of law they marched in their millions. Here we twitter and go back to whatever we were doing. Where’s the outrage on the streets that will show we cherish our system of checks and balances and are willing to defend it.
13
I never realized that President Trump was so committed to the enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. Truly inspiring!
4
Quite a bit of agitation over something quite straightforward.
If the Supreme Court asks you for a clarification, you provide that clarification. And you get better lawyers next time around.
That man is a monster.
10
Asking on a census used for voter counting who can vote is almost as bad as asking a voter for an ID.
Or asking an airline pilot for a pilot license.
If on the web nobody knows that you are a dog, why should they know at the voting booth or on the census?
4
The census is not there to count voters. Otherwise, we skip counting bodies under 18?
11
@karen Age is recorded indeed. So for voter counting the under 18 can be skipped.
In general, the more information, the better.
This administration will not comply with lawful subpoenas from Congress, they won't comply with the power of the purse from Congress, they lie in court and now they are telling us essentially they will not comply with a court order from the Supreme Court. They won't provide information, they think it's funny what others find cruel and sadistic, and they will not respect any treaties.
Just how far does this go before someone we elected does something? Or do we need to start an online writing committee to draft a document starting with the words:
"When in the course of human events..."
A government run by one person and his family unanswerable to anyone and doing whatever he pleases is not what this country signed up for on Independence Day. We need independence from the Trump Organization, we need independence from the Duchy of Kentucky and its Vizier in the Senate, and we need a country "conceived in liberty and dedicated to the notion" again. And if that means pushing 11 million un-American Republicans over the nearest border to become somebody else's undocumented, so be it.
16
There are already over 1737 comments here so here's one more.
When everything is said and done it will be up to masses of Americans in the streets demanding action. There is no better time than NOW.
Enough with the debate about due process and the rule of law. The president will not listen to government experts. Will not hear the ruling of the Supreme Court. Disregards U.S. intelligence agencies. It's his way or he throws a tantrum.
The time is now!
18
How can Trump supporters and his congressional enablers claim they support the Constitution while condoning a president whose administration continually flaunts the constitutional separation of powers? Is there no one in the Justice Department who can firmly tell Trump that the rule of law overrides his selfish desires? As if ignoring congressional subpoenas was not enough, now they are reversing a ruling and going against the Supreme Court! This is outrageous and dangerous.
While Trump has his military parade, much of it wasting taxpayer's money (despite his inaccurate tweets)--clearly he doesn't realize the Fourth of July is not a military holiday--human beings continue to suffer horribly at the border due to his policies. He has no empathy. He is corrupt. He disrespects the Constitution. He has to go. Start the Impeachment inquiry now. Enough is enough.
8
He was unable to put the question on legally, so he’s going to put it on illegally. Is anyone surprised??
15
Today Trump thumbs his nose at the supreme court, tomorrow we have a militarized Trump rally in our nations capitol. Does anyone still doubt his love for autocracy at this point?
17
What whimps, bowing to Trump. What does he have over them?
10
He can't get what he wants, so he is poisoning the well.
10
How many battalions do Federal judges have?
How many tanks?
Our system cannot withstand an assault by an authoritarian “president” who refuses to follow the Constitution, when neither Congress, the executive branch, nor citizens will hold him to account.
We are witnessing in real time how the US descends into autocracy.
In retrospect, all it took was one man, and a supine Congress and millions of willing citizens to destroy a nation thought to have “checks and balances” to prevent just such a tragedy.
So we went out not with a bang, but with a whimper, barely registering, a nation dissolving before our eyes, and into the tras heap of history.
21
That's it. I've had it. I no longer want to be labelled as an American.
12
The reason Trump rabidly wants this question on the census is to obtain proof that Obama is not a citizen.
2
Putin intervened on behalf of Trump in the presidential election because he knew that, if elected, Trump would destabilize America by sowing chaos and confusion. He knew that Trump would defile and disorder everything he touched. The census debacle is yet another demonstration of Putin's prescience.
20
Where are the house democrats? Oh yea, I forgot. You'll find them somewhere going high as Trump continues battling in the sewer.
8
hope i will be the 1776 comment. this whitehouse is so out of control that it begs the question of who has the guts to stand up to the potus. obviously no one in the justice dept. none of his cabinet. no one ins the dept of the navy. through his mgmt style he has inadvertently done a great deal to uncover the rot that exists within the state. for that he should be commended. but he is a lawless narcissistic demagogue, for that he should be condemned.
11
Pity the poor DOJ lawyers. All that eye rolling and forehead slapping can't be comfortable.
8
Can you say.....A-U-T-O-C-R-A-C-Y ?
14
"But Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., writing for the majority, left open the chance that the administration could offer an adequate rationale." Either the administration does not have an adequate rationale or enough time. But Trump is asking they should provide a better rationale. They are not talking to each other for sure.
4
Perhaps the Trump administration should simply state that the reason they want to add the citizenship question is for partisan gerrymander of voting districts. Given that the Supreme court has ruled that it is perfectly reasonable for states to do this, then perhaps this is the "adequate rationale" that court would accept.
12
It is simple. Civil disobedience is required. However, if Everyone of like mind does not answer the question, it all skews Republican. So make stuff up that favors Democrats. Double, no, triple the size of your family. Subtract from your net worth. Everyone is a citizen. This will not only taint the census for political reasons, it will do so for businesses all over the country. Trump’s legacy will be affected, but not in a good way.
12
@Keymaster "Civil disobedience is required."
Stay home in November 2020.
1
@novoad
Oh no. Vote in 2020.
Never ever take another election for granted.
8
Oh, well that will be a good path to a Trump victory in 2020. It is incredibly important for everyone to VOTE in 2020, especially if they want to rid our country of this increasingly dangerous man, who openly flaunts his disrespect for the rule of law and would, if possible, become President for life. Don’t think that he won’t try, because we’ve made that mistake before.
7
I am betting once the new court papers are filed giving another fake reason about why the Trump administration wants the citizenship question, Trump will direct that the census be printed WITH the question, then if his new explanation is not supported by the courts, he will say it is too late and that the constitution requires the census so it will be done with the question without regard for what the courts rule.
All questioning his decision will be declared to oppose the rule of law and the constitution, and conservatives will declare that Trump is the only protection the constitution has given since the courts are controlled by liberals.
As has been shown, without regard to who nominated them, all judges who do not rule as Trump demands will be labeled liberal Democrats.
We'll know before October 1. 2019.
3
This is what pure madness looks like. Telling Trump no is like telling a 2 year old no. He does not comprehend. His psychopathological reality does not take no for an answer. He believes he is King and all demands shall be met. There are no rules or laws. I'm not sure why the Judge even entertained the situation. What would the lawyers have done when they did see the tweets or hear what Trump wanted to do. It was already left the question wouldn't appear on the Census. It appears the Judge was assisting to add to the chaos. At any rate, I don't believe there would be enough time to print it. Any alternative rationale Trump's lawyers would come up for asking the citizenship question would still be a lie for their original motivation. Finally, I think if such a citizenship question appeared all Americans should refuse to answer the complete census.
10
A fascist takeover is in progress in this country. Will the American people wake up before it‘s too late?
26
The DOJ keeps forgetting that they serve the people; they do not serve Trump.
15
Never with Barr as attorney general. We’ve watched and allowed this to happen.
1
How are to to trust a Justice Dept. and a president, no less that keeps reversing their course on decisions made?
9
My staunch republican relatives always said the country needed a real businessman to run this country and put it back together because a business leader knows how to get things done--but they voted for Trump. Anyway does anyone really think leading our country is like running a business? I worked in family owned manufacturing company for 5 years and one of the first things I learned was family run companies are not a democracy.
11
For the naive, it must be utterly mind-boggling that the USA, which has so often self-presented to the rest of the world as a 'beacon' of Enlightenment values (aka 'democracy'), has crumbled so easily to dust under the influence of a single autocratic POTUS, elected according to the laws of the land, to be sure, with the help of the Electoral College.
There are two problems here, both related to education, as I see it.
1. Many americans have, willy-nilly, been brainwashed into believing the afore stated values have, in fact, underwritten the core of how the US always operates. (They have not, ever. 'Examine history' is the antidote. Some may be open-minded enough to undertake required examination.)
2. People can be brainwashed in a somewhat different direction: "(It's a given,) America is great! Always has been, always will be! When it seems less so, it's our duty, as Americans, to make sure it's made to look great again, whatever the means!"
In both cases, the problem is in examining the premises. History proves a persuasive corrective, but is unlikely to appeal to, attract espousers of the second claim.
How did we acquire so many non-thinking members of the electorate?
An answer is suggested by assuming the US is not only not "founded upon", but was actually never intended to institute enlightened values. Hence, critical thinking seems never to have been in vogue.
Certain periods of history have made this abundantly clear. We're right in the midst of one right now.
10
I believe this makes it official. In this White House, the left hand no longer knows what the left hand is doing.
"Clown car" doesn't come close to describing this group. It is a clown convoy.
17
Republicans' heads would explode if the census ever asked how many guns are in your household.
28
President Trump has made legitimate journalism ridiculous...
The Times and other mainstream outlets look absolutely useless...It’s not their fault but our mercurial leader truly renders conventional news reporting ABSURD...
Conventional news reporting has gone the way of the buggy whip...
Am I getting my point across?
3
Nothing much to say other than just another example of the charlatan-president acting like a swine. No, I take that back - that's an unfair attack on swine.
13
Donald Trump is crazy and he is surrounded by sleazebags who are either eager to do his bidding or too scared to cross him. This is a terrible way to launch into the 4th of July. What a national disgrace.
16
Can this president get any more White Nationalist?
16
My thoughts are that we need to get rid of this Hitler wannabe (by legal means) immediately.
19
Yea nice, defy all you want in not answering the citizenship question or refusing to respond to the whole census. That could be self-defeating and hand Trump/Republicans more than they ever dreamed.
By protesters not being counted on the citizenship question, the citizenship proportion of your district goes down and you could get fewer House seats in your state and less Federal funds if Republicans can manage to change the basis to citizens rather than residents. And if you refuse to respond to the entire census, the Republicans get what they want without having to change the rules.
Don't underestimate Trump/Republicans ability to game the system and so that non-compliance works against you. That's just feel-good protest while getting obliterated. The perpetual party of protest is a losing strategy.
5
It appears that the Trump Administration will defy a decision of the Supreme Court. If it backs down, it will probably do so on another occasion. This would lead to more Democrats supporting an impeachment investigation.
6
Justice Dept has been turned into a political weapon. Why should anyone honor any governmental powers now? Pure authoritarian takeover.
12
Trump's goal is to create as much confusion as possible around the issue and to keep talking about it. Whether or not the question is actually on the census, immigrants are likely to be fearful of being counted if they think there's a chance their status could be reported and used against them.
8
Can we start the Impeachment Hearings tomorrow? Darn it, we can’t. It’s a Federal Holiday. Which has been totally ruined by he who shall not be named. I hope that every person in America turns whatever device they would normally watch our normally wonderful event on the Fourth of July off.
11
So the Justice Department is again seeking to add the citizenship question they clearly said they would not seek to add, because Trump stomped his foot?
And they have made no attempt to explain their grounds for doing so, other than "Trump says we gotta"?
I don't think the Justice Department's heart is in this fight any more. If there is an upside, I hope that that extends to other Trump stompings-of-foot.
5
Sign of things to come! Unless people go out and vote in Nov. 2020 like our democracy is at stake, our democracy will be vanished for good. What may come next is suspension of the Constitution....Please vote.
9
More reason for impeachment. Trump ignoring a court order and insisting his way.
10
Yikes! This kerfuffle better not interfere with Mr. Trump's holiday weekend plans!
3
The ugly stain of Trump's blot on our democracy grows bigger... and just in time for Independence Day
9
So the administration lied to the courts. What else is new?
Trump obviously wanted the Justices out of town so he could do what he intended to do all along, irrespective of what they might say.
The real question is whether the Supreme Court will allow itself and the entire federal court system to be manipulated in this way.
5
Someone needs to tell him, he is not king. He cannot be a dictator either (many of whom he admires).
Time to dust up the Magna Carta folks
5
I ain’t answering that question. Under normal circumstances I would. But these are not normal times.
6
I have no intention of answering that question!
8
Now we might guess what our President Trump might rail about at HIS Independence day celebration tomorrow. The King will have his day and say.
6
What a scary situation.
Does anyone in the government know what is going on?
4
@janye:
On any given day -- nope.
We've traded the one august White House into a veritable clown car.
Sad.
Bigly sad.
8
Lesson to Chief Justice Roberts and his fellow conservative justices - they only think they have power. In fact they are just low level pawns in Trump world.
14
This fascist leader must go. Now. Congress is elected to represent the people’s interest, defend our democratic institutions, and assure a balance of power. Step up, you disappointing, do-nothing cowards.
18
If Mussolini were here today, he'd be proud of the trump administration.
Maybe he is here.
11
@Paul Wertz:
Whoa . . .
Could it be? Could -- could --
Could our Buffoon-in-Chief actually be reincarnation of El Duce???
That would explain much of the surreal trainwreck that has been the current administration.
4
Trump is such a screw up. How in God's name did even the census get messed up? Everything Trump and his administration touches gets fouled. He's a sorry excuse for a human being, and so are all who sail in him.
17
If Trump is not allowed to add the citizenship question, he can achieve the same goal by ..
.. printing the census in English only.
.. sticking a sign to the backs of census takers that reads ICE.
.. adding a question, "In the Game of Thrones episode, A knight of 7 kingdoms, the gathered armies prepare to battle who?"
1
Justice Department? Who needs 'em? L'etat c'est moi. (Let's see if it works out as well for him as it did in the French revolution....)
5
Pretty appalling that the judiciary is seemingly controlled by the stochastic unpresident’s Twitter feed.
7
@RickyDick:
Garbage in = Garbage out.
Sad.
Bigly sad.
5
if Trump "instructed" the Courts and the Supreme Court to make it work and get the census question included...
this is the actions of true dictator
16
@Jon_NY:
Yes, indeed.
And, apparently, fully 50% of our citizenry is frothing at the mouth for that.
Ah well -- caveat emptor.
7
If the question is on your census form, do what I'm going to do - answer with an "N/A," because that's exavtly what it is - NOT APPLICABLE.
7
@SuLee:
SUPERB suggestion!
3
Just be sure to also answer ‘white’ regardless if it’s true. Then maybe you’ll still count to the republicans who will use your answer for gerrymandering- and may also prevent ICE from showing up at your door, asking for your papers.
1
Getting so tired of all this. Don’t think I’m alone.
5
Trump and the republicans are counting on the stupidity and compliance of the American people. Don’t comply...resist!
8
This chaos is Trump bringing greatness back to America. He is an inept leader. Period. How can something of this magnitude change in 24 hours? I can only imagine the cries from the right if a Democrat were leading the nation in such a capricious way.
13
@Andrew N:
No, sir, he is NOT an "inept leader" --
He's simply inept.
And our nation's reputation, citizenry, and infrastructure suffers from it.
5
We are watching the country transform itself into an authoritarian system that is a democracy in name only. And a very large fraction of the voters and the elected politicians are both enabling this and cheering it. If it did not involve our lives and futures, it would be an interesting politico-historical study of how and why governments self-destruct.
12
@Svante Aarhenius:
All Republics eventually fail. Ours is well on its way.
It's one thing to be a witness to history; quite another to be trapped in the death throes.
The ugly truth is that the Buffon-in-Chief is not wholly responsible for this caustic stripping our of our once-shining-example to the world of Liberty and Hope, but he's also ignited an republic dissonance that may never be healed. It is stupefying that fully half our citizenry has drank the Kool-Aid -- and actually believes in the inane ineptness of DJT.
And yet, a small flicker of hope: there's at least one lady in NYC who apparently still believes in our potential -- she who stands with a torch in NYC's harbor . . .
3
I have a sneaking suspicion that the 2020 Census will basically be a waste of time / energy due to the misplaced "efforts" of our Executive Administration.
Too bad Mister Trump appears to be continually changing his mind - and it wouldn't be the first time either.
Let's hope our Distinguished Supreme Court (with it's two illegitimate justices) puts an end to this silly squabbling.
9
Thanks, non-Hillary voters.....
24
@MO Girl:
Yep. As with the highly-principled [sic] Naderites who refused to face the voting demographic realities, thus inflicting George Dubya to us, so too will those who choose to sit this election out, or vote for candidates with zero plausible chance of winning the presidency, be the architects of the misery we'll again have earned.
Who ever claimed that Homo Sapiens is the most intelligent life on Earth was sorely mistaken -- unless he/she was referring to our particular genius for making bad decisions and destroying our planet.
As our Buffoon-in-Chief likes to say --
Sad.
Bigly sad.
Indeed.
4
On this celebration of the founding of our country, let us give special recognition to the Republican party, which has given us a yet higher vision of how great we may become. It would only be proper for all Republicans in Washington to prostrate themselves on the ground so that their President may walk to the Lincoln Memorial to deliver his acceptance of the title of First Emperor by walking on them, that his Feet not be defiled.
18
Dictator Trump out did himself to destroy the image and reputation of America!.
Take those antiquated tanks and give them to Russia!!
6
As the adjoining editorial states; the census will be immediately digitized confirming my suspicion that the Census is intended for use as a database in a possible national dragnet. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are enslaved. Think about that as you watch Trump at of all places, the Lincoln memorial, on that which has enslaved the nation.
10
@SHAKINSPEAR, I am not watching Trump. Not tomorrow. Not ever again. When it isn't the same old same old, maybe I'll be interested.
4
@SHAKINSPEAR:
Watching the Buffoon-in-Chief standing in front of perhaps our Greatest President would be a surreal experience akin to taking acid laced with anti-freeze and motor oil.
I will probably watch simply as a witness to history, as he again reduces our nation's reputation several more notches.
(What's truly astonishing is that there actually exist otherwise normal humans who admire and believe in him. )
The scene tomorrow evokes memories of the classic Superbowl commercial put on by Apple in 1984 . . . it's still available on You Tube, and is WELL worth viewing again -- the parallels are deeply disturbing.
Sad.
Bigly Sad.
2
A day in the life of a narcissist.
9
As usual, the Trump administration has no clue about reality or how to make government function. Who would vote for these idiots?
11
@toomuchrhetoric who would vote for him? Deplorables.
2
A system in chaos such as we have is truly as government without leadership. The rule of law needs to be restored.
9
As the judge made clear, it's not going to happen. Even if Trump tweets himself into knots!
4
Maybe this is the kind of behavior that Nancy Pelosi knew would happen and it is another quiver in her bow for impeachment. Trump continues to display such irrational, unconstitutional, bizarre behavior that even some Republicans may be feeling queasy. Democrats have a lot of ammunition, and I hope they use it wisely before our country is completely off the rails.
9
Even the rails are off the rails.
2
The Gang that couldn't shoot straight revisited.
3
Republicans in Congress are this president's lap dog. Law and Order? Yeah, right.
8
To the House Dems in general, and Madame Speaker in particular: if this is not a high crime and misdemeanor, what is?
22:45 EDT, 7/03
9
As a pro-American Australian following current events with fascination especially with regard to American attitudes to asylum seekers and undocumented migrants, citizens and non-citizens. I would like to say that I am really impressed by the sheer number of very kind Americans who stand up for newcomers. In similar blogs in Australia, overwhelmingly the hard right bigoted attitudes pervade the forums. Your discussions are far more enlightened and sympathetic. Maybe because we are an island; maybe because the White Australia Policy was enshrined until recently. So don't let any Aussies tell you that Australia is better. I can't credibly quantify it, but it seems to me that Trumpian attitudes of hard right authoritarianism are far more ingrained in Australia than in America. Of course we have good people too but I think proportionally less than the USA. Our attitude to Indigenous people has only recently started to improve.
8
@Bob Guthrie
I've got news for you, most of these people that are so concerned with immigrants, don't give a second thought to the plight of the American Indians.
6
@Raz
I lived for many years on Australian Indigenous communities. About 30 years ago in a very remote what you call "reservation" we hd a visit from an Indigenous North American- a very nice fellow actually. He could not believe what he saw there.
I mentioned a plague of scabies we had there. He said What's Scabies? He could not believe the conditions in comparison to what he was used to. I believe you though. But I bet Australia is worse. Yet as being interested in Indigenous affairs, from Bolivia to Guatemala, I totally believe you. i just guarantee you that Australia is worse.
5
@Bob Guthrie
I defer to your assessment of the relative conditions. The "plight" I was talking about is not really economic, or related to health care. These are actually pretty good, in this country, although their conditions are not on a par with the rest of the population.
In Montana, we have seven "Indian Reservations", a term almost everyone hates. I have lived and taught for years right on the boundary of one of these.
The crisis I'm referring to is cultural. Many of these people have never felt a part of this nation, a feeling they pass on to their children, and we have not helped them to become a part of it.
They still resent the fact that we are here. The result of this is a multitude of problems.
They resent "white man's" education.
Drug addiction and alcoholism.
Broken families.
Violence.
It's a shame, because they have beautiful souls and have much to offer.
2
I guess that this means that all the Supreme Court decides does not matter any more, or in other words, it only matters if fits t's oligarchy, if not he and they ignore their verdicts. A perfect prescription for anarchy, as if they, even those of the (now so-called) Department of Justice, do not follow the rules, why should anyone else? This just can't last much longer. I plan to wear a black ribbon tomorrow, and I think so should many.
13
I don't understand what all the fuss is over this. From my understanding the house of reps has not increased in size since 1913. As if this joke of a democracy will be in any way altered by one question on the census. These people in power can do anything they want despite the supposed legal hurdles in their way. People just need to give up on the idea that the people are in charge. You'd be much more effective by realizing that by far the most significant impact you can have is by adhering to a system of "do no harm" and vote with you wallet. Actually, technically speaking I'm implying you should not vote and just leave your wallet in you pocket. I can assure you things will change very quickly in this manner.
3
Even if it turns out to be too late to add the citizenship question to the printed questionnaire, this would not mean the citizenship question will not be asked as part of the 2020 census,
In 2020, the Census Bureau expects most Americans to fill out the census questionnaire on the Internet or by telephone. So the citizenship question could be asked on the Internet questionnaire and the telephone questionnaire.
The Internet and phone version of the questionnaire do not have to be the same as the print version. For decades, the Census Bureau publish two versions of the questionnaire—the long form and short form.
4
Let’s stand together, as Americans, and not answer the citizenship question...on paper or internet.
5
@Didadi
When people don't answer a census question, a census workers knocks at their door. If a census worker knocks at your door and you refuse to answer the question, you can be prosecuted. If you don't answer the door, the census worker will interview the neighbors. In the end, the Census Bureau would make a determination to count you as a citizen or noncitizen.
1
obviously no Republican will even raise an eyebrow over the president not complying with a Supreme Court ruling.
And I imagine the Democrats will only wag their finger.
A lawless, corrupt party hellbent on doing whatever it wants, and a pathetically spineless party deathly afraid of doing its Constitutional duty.
End of the line, folks. The experiment is over. It lasted for a while, but ultimately it failed.
8
A perfect play for Trump. As always above the law, sparking outrage from the mainstream media, a knee jerk subservience from Barr, and complete cowed silence from Republicans.
Donald is the rooster that crowed on the 4th.
This is his parade.
This is his America.
3
Oh come on, just print the forms and move on.
Not sure how any member of Congress can be watching this President and not be thinking that he is not right mentally.
13
Sooo,the United States Navy,moves the USS John McCain,so trump's eyes won't mistakenly see it.The trump regime claim they don't have provide essential sanitary items to desperate immigrants.They assert the 'citizenship inquiry,is utilized to enforce the Voting Rights Act and help BLACK people?These and Other lies are quite appropriate for some Americans.Why is That?Are we Not an ostensibly intelligent people?...Why do conservatives covet ignorance?...
14
Contempt of the SCOTUS: high crime and misdemeanor.
17
Wait so the SUPREME COURT isn't Supreme anymore? Welcome to the United Golf Clubs of Trump.
11
This is nothing more than a reelection tactic. He never really wanted or expected to get elected. Now he dreads being an ordinary citizen subject to prosecution. There are sooooo many people after his hide, patiently waiting for him to be elected out of office. And he knows this.
Democrats must take control of both houses in 2020. Then reduce the power of the president via legislation. This is the big lesson to be learned after all presidents since Reagan as there has been a gradual transfer of power to the executive branch.
14
The Donald Administration is becoming very instructive for how subordinate officials behave under dictatorship.
OK, the salesman isn't yet a dictator. Thank the Founders—AND JOURNALISTS—for a society where the emperor can't hide that he has no clothes. But he's authoritarian, and it's very clear, the past two years, that the ruler's rule is "My way, or the highway"—except for the rule of law.
This isn't idle cynicism. Historians struggle intensely over why underlings cooperate under authoritarian rule (and weak rule of law). Unfortunately, we're getting instructed.
9
@gary e. davis, you write, "OK, the salesman isn't yet a dictator.." The key word is "yet." But every day he moves closer. First it was laughable, then scary, and now downright frightening at how likely he is to become an outright dictator. Give up and he wins. Don't give up and fight, there's still a chance he loses. I'll go with option #2.
4
I'm not clear--what is the supposed new way to cast the argument that Trump is banking on?
I have thought for a while now that Trump may want to challenge the courts. I don't mean legally, in court with appeals, but by doing what they ordered him not to do. After all, Andrew Jackson ignored the Supreme Court on his national bank decision, shutting it down anyway, saying let them enforce it. It caused a huge financial collapse, in those days called a panic: there was no longer a national currency and banks were issuing their own currencies, which they claimed were backed by gold, a claim impossible to verify, leaving people with money that wouldn't spend. Moreover, his Attorney General has questioned the right of the judicial system to rule against Trump. In reality, if Trump ignores the courts or the supreme court, what will happen to him and his administration? An impeachment that will not lead to a conviction because of a Senate controlled by Republicans in his pocket?
7
In re 2nd BUS, this is entirely made up history. Congress reaffirmed the constitutionality of the bank, not the Supreme Court. The Bank’s charter was due to expire in 1836, but its proponents, led by Henry Clay, made the unwise political decision to apply for early recertification, placing the issue at the center of the 1832 elections. Though well managed, the 2nd BUS was widely perceived as the tool of monied elites, a view President Jackson shared. Recertification passed both houses but Jackson vetoed it, and began moving government monies into what became popularly known as “pet banks”. Contrary to what’s stated here, there was a very short lived “panic” following Jackson’s veto, but it was instigated by the Bank’s President Nicholas Biddle. Though the State “pet” banks had their problems, they actually functioned far better than might have been expected. The Panic of 1837, occurred during the Van Buren administration, and was caused by issues only tangentially related to Jackson’s “bank wars”.
3
The country needs to know who is here and whether or not they are authorized to be in the country. Moreover, illegal residents must not be counted in congressional apportionment as this rewards law breaking. We wouldn't reward tourists who overstay their welcome and we should not do any different for illegal migrants or the cities and states that flout three law and shelter these law breakers. A country without borders creases to be a country. I can't believe this isn't self evident to all.
6
Be mad at the Founders. They wrote the Constitution that you apparently haven’t read.
13
@MJG
Very well said
2
Determining who is or is not in the country legally is not the objective of the census. It’s a Constitutionally required count of *all* persons residing in the country, plain and simple. And in any case, Trump has not proposed to do what you suggest. The question he wants to add only pertains to citizenship, not legal status. There are millions of legal residents of the United States (green card holders, etc.) who are not citizens.
7
The effort to hijack the census is the work of Trump's personal attorney, William Barr. Blocking the legal capability for the House to obtain extremely important information from the Executive branch is orchestrated by Trump's personal attorney, Attorney General William Barr. The damage initiated by Bill Barr in his brief time in the Justice Dept. is frightening. Barr's collaboration with Mitch McConnell is frightening. Thanks Republicans, but don't imagine any of these highly partisan changes will protect you...you will also be going down with the sabotaged ship of state.
10
So much damage to our country by this president and his administration aided by a corrupted senate.
You know what we see on the surface is small potatoes to what we don't know. What did Trump and Putin talk about?
If he somehow defies the court and the senate refuses to act, as noted, a constitutional crisis if not a collapse of our government as we knew it could occur. Unfortunately, even if he fails at this goal, he will turn his attention to something equally pugnacious.
7
Yo, Judge -- Mr. Trump is not a party to the case in front of you, and his Twitter feed is irrelevant. Please just do your job and assess the pleadings put in front of you by the parties to the suit.
4
At this point, it’s obvious to the point of being undeniable: Donald Trump wants to destabilize, and likely, destroy the United States. Shame on anyone who supports this abomination.
12
Didn’t the Commerce Dept and Justice talk to Trump before saying they would not pursue the census question? Did Trump even understand the issue when he approved not pursuing the census question? So what gives Trump the right to change his mind? He just likes chaos, but a nation cannot be governed by chaos, indecision and stupidity.
Hopefully each of the federal judges will not acquiesce to Trump’s new demand to include a citizenship question. We all know Trump wants it included to increase Republican control. It is time to stop this brazen attempt to distort the census.
3
@Harold R Berk - just like it was time to stop this brazen attempt to distort the elections by gerrymandering, an excess infusion of cash (because dollars are people, right, sorta like corporations? They have white men on them - at least for as long as they can keep Harriet Tubman off the 20), and so on. I don't trust any Republican-dominated institution of this government, from a single Republican judge in any courtroom to any trumpist-led department, to do anywhere near the right thing for the majority of Americans who are hamstrung by the power-grabbing Trumpublicans. And when they "accidentally" make a right call, Trump will order it reversed. Banana republic(an) dictator, anyone? Looks like it to me....
2
I almost fell out of mmy chair laughing when Judge Hazel said to the Trump Administration's lawyer:
"....I don't think you speak for your client anymore."
7
Well, we know that Bill Barr believes that Trump has dictatorial powers, and will do as Trump tells him.
5
It is official now. Up is down and down is up.
5
Count on Trump to side with wrong. Moral, ethical, patriotic, factual wrong.
7
What a toady Barr is. He is throwing away his career to associate it with Trump, and will probably be led to jail in chains like others who have done the same.
He said he doesn't care how history treats him because he will be dead. He isn't thinking of the interim - may he live to be 110.
Lady Justice used to represent justice blind as to the plaintiff.
Barr has turned the Justice Department into the Trump Organization LLC's law firm.
He is defending one of the most corrupt men produced in America, put into office by Putin.
The American public needs to overwhelm the barracks placed in front of the voting booths to throw these corrupt traitors, led by an admitted serial molester and accused serial rapist, out of office and into jail.
America needs democracy, law, and freedom back. It needs to respect the Constitution again. It must have sovereign elections.
Tanks on July 4th held as a Trump electioneering campaign for donors is dystopian, and demands a massive demonstration to show Trump's version of July 4th is North Korean and Russian, not American.
7
Defying a ruling by the Supreme Court? Can anyone deny that the President of these United States is a domestic terrorist?
16
Lunacy. It never takes a break.
6
If this question does end up on it I will be answering no. I want to see ICE come and deport this 4th generation American.
8
Who doubts, that if 45 feels a need, that he will cancel the 2020 election. He's rogue, lawless, and apparently, unstoppable!
5
@PK, I've been saying this for at least two years. I'm sort of surprised he hasn't pulled a coup already; all his human chess pieces are in place.
1
Counting illegals in the census without knowing their status may not give them individual voting rights, but it does give them voting power, for the President, through their representatives.
Census data are used to determine the number of congressional districts in a state, which translate to electoral votes. Counting illegals in the census gives states with a lot of them an unjustifiable number of representatives.
Section 2 of the 14th amendment implies that the right to vote can be denied to people, and the number of representatives of that state can be adjusted accordingly.
Indicating whether they are citizens doesn't mean they can't be counted, they just won't have voting weight. The proportion of illegals in some states is a lot higher than others (exceptional examples: CA & NY). Counting them in these states skews the count in favor of Dem's, and they know it.
7
1) no human being is an illegal. Do you fancy yourself a Christian? Try harder.
2) the only party with excessive power is the Republican Party, which lost the 2000 and 2016 POTUS popular elections by millions of votes.
3) SCOTUS gave GOP cheats unfettered partisan gerrymandering, so the party's MO (cheating) will continue at the state level for years to come.
7
The Constitution requires counting of all people, regardless of their citizenship status. Black letter law.
Whether or not someone is a citizen is irrelevant from the point of view of the constitutional requirement of counting all people.
7
Textualists only like it when they benefit from something the Constitution “implies”. That’s called hypocrisy.
2
One of the main purposes of taking the census is to guarantee that all citizens are properly represented in the House.
Since representation is based upon population, it seems only fair that the question of citizenship be resolved. If it isn't, areas with large populations of noncitizens will necessarily be over represented, and other areas will be under represented.
Please explain to me why I'm wrong.
7
You’re wrong because election districts are divvied up by a magical partisan pony, and States are guaranteed a certain number of seats in the house, otherwise wyoming would have like 1 seat and California would have like 40. Knowing how many immigrants are in your neighbourhood won’t change anything. Anyone who read that and thinks I’m trying to be accurate about the numbers, needs to google sarcasm.
1
You are wrong.
The answer is in the Constitution. It says nothing about counting only citizens.
5
@SCPro
Article 1, Section 2 of the United States Constitution:
"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which
may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be
determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to
Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other
Persons."
"Persons" not "citizens."
2
The Commerce Department told the Supreme Court the citizenship question should be asked so the Justice Department could better enforce the Voting Rights Act. Federal courts have ruled states must consider the number of voting-age citizens when designing Hispanic set-side district.
The court agreed the citizenship question is constitutional. In the majority opinion, Justice Roberts wrote that the decision to reinstate the question “was supported by the evidence” and was “reasonable and reasonably explained, particularly in light of the long history of the citizenship question on the census.”
However, Roberts agreed with the lower court that Ross’s rational for reinstating the citizenship question were pretextual. (Most Americans would say Ross had “ulterior motives.”)
The assumption is that Ross wants to give states citizenship data so they can base voting district maps on the number of citizens eligible to vote rather than the number of residents. State in danger of losing congressional seats or Electoral College votes could use the data to advocate for changes in the way congressional seats and Electoral College votes are allocated. These are simply more valid reasons for reinstating the citizenship question.
The Commerce Department has to go back to the district court and fully disclose its pretextual reasons for reinstating the citizenship question. This should not be a problem. It will simply add other valid reasons for asking the citizenship question.
5
There is no functional justice department.
And John Roberts, if you cave to this, you realize that you will have sacrificed your integrity to an incompetent , soulless, selfish, foolish, stupid man.
28
What does it take for real, authentic, actual steps to remove Donald Trump from office? Really, what does it take??
Apparently, the census is meant to be answered online. You will be blocked from submitting a response if you skip a question, and there is no money to send people out to knock on your door for an accurate count. So, protest N/A responders (I am one) damned if you do, damned if you don't.
That same calculus does not apply to impeaching Trump.
12
Trump Country: are you truly proud of your vote?
11
Stupid question, as I do not remember even filling out the census form ten years ago, or twenty for that matter, or ever, but I must have... if that question is on the census, can the resident just leave it blank or write N/A? Oh, I see Steve from Tennessee just asked that question and it was
answered, so I'll just read those I guess,
1
The citizenship question should go right after the question "have you ever employed illegals at any of your businesses?"
19
Yawn. Quit chasing the shiny objects he throws out.
6
I like that the judge gave them till Friday. Either confirm they're letting it go or continue the lawsuit.
Guess we know what his attorneys will be doing tomorrow, while he's out strutting, giving speechs waving to the crowd in front of tanks. I hope it rains. Pours.
You could not make this stuff up for a reality show. You think Wilbur Ross is stupid enough to disobey the Supreme Court? Bad move, Wilbur, because he'll dump you quicker than one of those women that "weren't his type".
6
Are you a citizen of the U.S.A.? My answer: I am a citizen of Earth, residing in the U.S.A.
2
I think I'd refuse to answer the question and cite the Supreme Court ruling against being on the census. If enough people refused to answer the question, I don't a judge would fine so many people
1
trump and his alleged department of justice just can't seem to do the right thing. Ever. There's simply no moral bearing within the people of trump's administration.
9
When the Supreme Court refuses to hear his appeal after the courts rule he must turn over his tax returns to Congress, what happens? He refuses the court orders? Of course Barr will enforce the court orders, right? I like Biden, but I fear he will pardon Trump in the hope of 'reuniting' the country. Kamala will prosecute him. Go Kamala.
9
@KL Biden would never pardon Trump. He may be old and may have espoused faulty (in retrospect) political positions, but he has a moral compass which would never allow him to pardon Trump.
3
Good! The US Government should serve US citizens. In order to do so, it should know how many there are and where they live. Just because Trump and his administration may think the question gives them partisan advantage doesn’t diminish the actual logic behind asking such a question in the first place. Democrats seemingly care more about foreign nationals living here illegally than actual US citizens and consequently want the citizenship question left off the Census. That way Democrats can benefit from high populations of illegal immigrants in places like New York and California in terms of greater representation and allocation of Federal financial resources. Shame on them. Citizens should come first!
10
@John
You forgot about the Constitution - you know, original intent and all that. You seemingly care more about securing a Republican advantage than following the plain language of the Constitution. It's plain: Everyone gets counted. Everyone.
6
@John
The census has rarely, maybe never, given an accurate population count because too many residents refuse to respond.
Historically over many decades, the Sun Belt, rural Appalachia, and rural/frontier Western states have had lower response rates. Those are predominately white USA citizens refusing to respond to the Decennial Census.
To get the best accurate population count, the Census survey must be designed in a way that reduces undercounts... for citizens and non-citizens alike. Also, keep in mind that immigrants, both with and without proper documentation, pay taxes (FICA, federal and state income taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, etc.); they are not freeloaders.
The fretting, over Congressional districting and the impact on the Electoral College, is a canard. In states like California, rural counties overwhelmingly vote Republican, even though those areas rely heavily on immigrant labor; some of those counties turned from red to blue recently, but that had more to do with Trump than immigrants. Similarly, look at states like Texas and Florida. Then consider that immigrants, with and without documentation, live in rural, suburban, and urban areas across the entire USA.
2
Why is it that Trump supporters keep on repeating the lie that Democrats want illegal immigration without offering a shred of evidence?
5
If Trump can defy the Supreme Court (regarding the census) and get away with it, what is to prevent him from refusing to step down as president if he loses the election in Nov. 2020?
Donald Trump and his Justice Department believe mistakenly, that he is all-powerful and above the law.
It is up to the GOP to show where they stand by preventing this prelude to the coup of our democracy and constitution.
10
@Carrie Beth Trump has defied everyone, everywhere, forever and has gotten away with it. Defying the Supreme Court is just another obstacle to defy. The senate (unlikely), congress (maybe), and the judicial system (iffy) would need to step up and hold him accountable. That's not likely to happen. So it's really up to those who vote. We voted Trump in...we can vote him out.
6
@Carrie Beth
I agree but would hazard to point out that the only way to force the GOP to show where they stand is to impeach Donald Trump in the House, and let the cards fall where they may. The census is not a prelude. Show is on.
3
@alabreabreal
We can try voting. Forces are aligning against us, powerful forces that for whatever reason find Trump to be a useful idiot and voters be damned. Nevertheless, we must persist in trying.
4
Donald Trump believes he is above the law.
He intends to include a citizenship question on the census questionnaire despite the Supreme Court telling him not to.
If this isn't a clear cut impeachable offense, nothing is.
Someone who is not in the Trump administration is going to have to watch the ACTUAL CENSUS FORMS as they emerge from the printers to make sure that there is no citizenship question on the form, then take custody of those forms to insure that no switch is made to forms including a citizenship question until they are actually sent out to their intended recipients.
The Trump administration cannot be trusted on this matter.
Nancy Pelosi, I think it's now time FOR YOU to defend America against Trump, regardless of what YOU THINK the cost might be.
When and if Trump is reelected he will do as he pleases, lawful or not, because he will be answerable to no one.
6
@S Butler
He is already answerable to no one. His hero Andrew Jackson defied the supreme court and got away with it. Impeachment is impotent when the Republicans don't care what he does and it has already been decided that he can't be indicted. He could go out in front of Trump Tower or his place in Florida and shoot people walking by. Nothing could be done, it seems, except impeachment and that would not lead to a conviction in this Senate. So whether or not he is reelected he will do what as he pleases because he is already answerable to no one. And if he loses the election he may defy everyone.
I think he relishes this opportunity to defy the judicial system as did his hero; after all, it is the expressed opinion of the White House that the judiciary is a secondary branch of government.
2
I'm curious. So how is it that the supreme court acts as a check against the President if it goes back to the house and senate? By that nature it has no authority as they can simply ignore it as we see with the senate supporting a dictator. What looks to be our core problem is the senate. The senate has far to much power for a minority of people. Literally 52 people can control the united states. 51 senators and 1 executive.
So what happens when you have this situation when the judicial branch check is being ignored? How do they enforce this if the senate is being controlled. Basically everything in the judicial and house can be ignored by 52 people or close to some number akin to that depending on the vote requirement.
What a major flaw. McConnell and the republicans have proven beyond a doubt they have no care for the rule of law unless it favors their agenda. And they have proven a dictator is totally acceptable as long as it is their dictator.
Make up your minds republicans. Are you choosing dictatorship? We are running out of time for a transition of government that is peaceful through the vote.
6
@Mathias McConnell is the fatal flaw. He has no problem with dictatorship...as long as the republican party can pull the dictatorial strings. Trump is only a puppet, as was so rightly noted during the debates. Whoever can pull the right strings to make the puppet dance, wins.
4
I don't participate in censuses and won't participate in this one. The census is an unconstitutional, unlawful invasion of a citizen's privacy.
1
The census is mandated in the constitution. So, yeah. It’s not unconstitutional, come to find out.
7
The Census cannot be unconstitutional as it is specifically mandated by the US Constitution.
4
Think about this for a second. From a very far right position, this is the crown jewel of Trump's first term... forget about "America First", now it's going to be "Only American Citizens Count".
This will be the unstable foundation on which he will build a false perch to talk down to the democrats. Anyone who questions his defiance of the Supreme Court will be called unpatriotic and branded a traitor.
It pains me to call Trump clever, but the negative consequences of a citizenship question on the census are difficult to explain, while the question itself is easy to demonize and misrepresent.
This will be the way he can defy the Judicial Branch over a confusing issue and cause further chaos among conflicted democratic supporters.
The only real consequence of his defiance would be an impeachment vote by Congress, that would fail in the Senate, and Trump would notch another victory.
This is a Win-Win for him.
3
@Chris Your argument makes no sense. First of all, defying the Supreme Court is unconstitutional. No one would be branded unpatriotic or treasonous for questioning anyone who defied a Supreme Court decision.
Secondly, "the negative consequences of a citizenship question on the census" are not difficult to explain. Let me try. If citizenship becomes a question on the census, it will discourage non-citizens from responding. That will skew population counts which in turn will change congressional districts and allow republicans a larger electoral advantage. Not too hard to understand.
While you may feel confused and surrounded by chaos, many aren't. There are wiser minds.
1
We have never had such a sly con man as Donald J. Trump, oblivious to the rule of law, and no doubt listening to his adviser Stephen Miller, a rabid anti-immigrant, anti-democratic and resentful individual. Trump is so capricious and such a political weather vane that he cannot be trusted, nor taken seriously...even in such an important process as the Census. This is a devious republican maneuver to stay in power however vicious, and dishonest, a move for being in the minority. And adding the question of Citizenship is fraudulent at best.
3
Trump gets ticked off at Ross because he didn’t lie well enough to sucker the Scotus. If the situation weren’t so pitiful, it would be funny.
NY AG Letitia James seems to be the only person speaking whose feet are squarely on the ground. Scotus “has spoken, and Trump’s own Commerce Department has spoken.” “It’s time to move forward to ensure every person in the country is counted.”
Trump could get so much more accomplished if he weren’t so ham-handed and vindictive on every little thing, notwithstanding the lies, of course.
Whenever trump hits a roadblock on his highway to the unholy realm of dictatorships, are his decisions based on a silent question he’s asking himself:
‘What would Putin do?’? Or Kim? Or ‘Xi’?
If so, that would certainly explain a lot in this administration.
3
If asked, I will not answer.
1
Despair, once again over the administration....when will it end and why can't Democrats come together on a candidate who will beat Trump, ie Biden.
Despair
Despair
Despair
1
Every American should go stand upright in a closet for a week and see how it feels. If you don’t like it - DO SOMETHING. Contact your representative, protest, vote all who condone or caused these atrocious conditions out of office.
2
@Tim Shaw. I've done all that, and NOW what???
I've lost hope. Go on over to the Foxnews comments section if you also want to lose hope. Trump's America simply does away with non-whites and liberals. And he's winning, winning, winning.
2
Trump has ignored the Legislature’s authority over spending by declaring false emergencies and misappropriating funds.
Now he’s ignoring the Supreme Court’s decision on the census, which is itself constitutionally mandated.
Trump has, on more than one occasion, “joked” about extending his position as president.
Call me alarmist, but this is the first time I have ever entertained the notion that the president may not leave the Oval Office peacefully. Or at all.
Donald Trump says out loud that he’s going to do something horrible, and then, he does. Start believing him, people! Because, for reasons I do not understand, Trump suffers no consequences, legal or otherwise for his fundamental unwillingness to operate within the framework of our government.
8
"I'm definitely imposing 300-billion in tariffs on China starting.... now!"
NEXT DAY: "China has been so willing to comply, I'm cancelling the tariffs starting... now! And Xi and I fell in love."
"I'm definitely imposing tariffs on Mexico to stop the flow of hundreds of millions of murderers and rapists from invading our country, starting... now!"
NEXT DAY: "Mexico is sending millions of soldiers to the border to stop the hundreds of millions of murderers and rapists, so I'm stopping the tariffs, for a while, starting... now!"
"I've ordered our jets into the air to strike Iran because they bombed another country's boats, and shot down one our unmanned drones—the kind with no pilot on board—starting... now!"
TEN MINUTES LATER: "I just learned that 150 humans could be killed (and that would make me look bad) so I've cancelled the attack starting... now! Besides, it was an only an unmanned plane, or drone thing, or whatever they call it, so no big deal."
"I love my generals. They're the best in the world!"
"My generals are ignorant, and I know more than they do. I know it, and YOU know it too."
Pre-election: "I'll release my taxes, absolutely."
Post-election: "I absolutely won't release my taxes."
"I love our country, and the brave men and women of the military."
"I would have absolutely served in Vietnam, but these bone spurs REALLY hurt.
8
This is tyranny. Impeach Trump now. He is ignoring a Supreme Court ruling. When will Democrat’s wake up and grow a spine. Fight for the principles they espouse. Unbelievable!
6
This is clearly an obstruction of justice. We now have a sitting president who is defying the Supreme court.
6
H.L. Mencken;"Democracy is the rule of the inferior over the superior."
Mencken, Fascist sympathizer, meant the uneducated masses being able to vote were incapable of wisdom in their choices.
I am a progressive, an anti-Fascist, but when a man who is deeply inferior in morality, honesty, and knowledge runs roughshod like a dictator, cares nothing for legal checks and balances, and is as unfit for this office as we've ever seen, then it is the rule of the inferior. The GOP is now a hater of democracy, so it is up to citizens to vote every possible GOP pol out of office.
If Trump is an example of how millions of Americans think, or shall we say, do not think, then the decline of a once great nation(despite its many flaws) is a certainty. Who will save this country?
The 2020 election will tell us whether enough citizens actually care about morality, honesty, wisdom, facts, truth, and decency.
2
After WW2 millions spent years in internment camps after Europe's borders were redrawn, largely by Churchill, Stalin and FDR, none of whom had any right to give away what wasn't theirs to give. These people were displaced persons ie DPs and they stayed in camps until sent to wherever was next available, not usually by choice and not necessarily where they had relatives. They sat and waited their turn and went to - South America, Australia - but not their first choice the US or Canada. Paulo Szot, the singer, nice Spanish/Portuguese first name with a Polish last name,for example. Some DPs emigrated to the U.S. but only after years of waiting elsewhere and then obtained citizenship legally.
My point? - They weren't counted until they were citizens.
I was appalled by the Dems offering open borders and health insurance to illegals thus opening the floodgates. Might as well just hand the election to Donnie.
I was also appalled by the banners in Spanish. What happened to learning the language of the country ie English which every preceding immigrant group has done, including my Polish and Russian forbears. They came at an older age, after plenty of hardship and from a much more difficult language transition.
So - include the question - are you a citizen? And learn English.
I won't vote for any candidate who gets up and promotes his wares by speaking in Spanish either.
I'm sure the NYT won't publish this as it doesn't fly with their agenda.
And BTW I voted for Hillary Clinton.
4
@Sza Sza
The people sent to other countries were not counted in the USA... because they weren’t living in the USA.
When many finally relocated to the USA, they didn’t immediately become USA citizens. They were immigrants, and they were counted by census takers.
3
Of course they weren't counted while living outside the USA. But they were legal immigrants who waited their turn to get in and then were counted later as citizens, at least in my family. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
And they did learn English, even the seniors.
2
@Sza Sza
My immigrant grandparents, both maternal and paternal sides, arrived circa 1906 from Eastern Europe and experienced the humiliation of Ellis Island to gain entry into the USA.
None could speak English, and none had as much as an 8th grade education. Census takers came by and counted my grandparents before they became citizens (no mailed surveys back then).
My paternal grandmother, who completed only up through 2nd grade, lived into her 90s (not sure exactly how old because those records were not important and destroyed in the “old” country). She died in the 1980s and never learned to speak more than a few words of English. She worked hard into her early 70s, cleaning offices.
My parents were part of the Greatest Generation, survived the Great Depression, went to high school (mom graduated), fought and/or supported the WWII efforts, and contributed to the post-WWII economic boom.
My adult child and I both have professional graduate degrees.
This is “America.”
I will never demean those who come to the USA, seeking to better their lives and children’s futures... not even those who arrive undocumented.
1
Now we have seen the transcript of the proceedings in the Maryland federal court, and it is truly astonishing. The Justice Department has nothing, nothing, nothing. They were caught flat-footed and made some whiny weak representation that they would somehow, somewhere, come up with something that would save this case, obviously reacting to 140 character twitter "orders" from Generalissimo Trump. This is not a government. This is some kind of joke administration falling all over itself like clowns tumbling out of a clown car in the circus. Americans are paying for all of this garbage behavior. We deserve better. Much better!
10
As I’ve said all along, he wants to be crowned King Trump. The US Constitution and our legal system is no hindrance for him... clearly he hasn’t read it because he will do whatever he wants and crow about it in the next year during the debates.
Make no mistake, Barr does his bidding. Barr should be stripped of his law degree and ousted from the Dept of Justice.
It’s time for Republican Senators to wise up - oh, silly me. They’ve already been steamrolled by Trump. I will NEVER vote for a Republican ever again, no matter how centrist they are. Just a bunch of old men doing what they want to stay in office, collect their millions from special interests, and dupe their constituents while rolling over for McConnell and Trump. It’s disgusting and repulsive. I hope 2020 is a landslide for the Democrats. Any democrat will be better than this narcissist we have in office.
Disgusting. It’s that simple. All of it and now tanks in DC for the 4th of July?
Republicans if you’re listening, you have flunked Backbone 101. Go back to school.
4
Time for a Singapore like show of citizen force in DC.
Uhhh...I think you mean Hong Kong.
3
So Trump can just ignore a ruling from the Supreme Court.
What a terrible precedent.
"The Justice Department ultimately acted under pressure from Mr.Trump...and insisted that his administration move forward despite the court’s ruling."
16
Skip the parades, Mr. President, and start obeying the Supreme Court and the law of the land.
30
“No do-overs!”
9
This is what a "fine tuned machine" looks like!
So much for the holding this maniac in check.
7
Of all the trials and tribulations man has had to endure on its long journey, I’m sure answering a US census question will rank amongst its most daunting. I plan to drink a lot tomorrow.
2
Oh. Look. Another attention-getter. There will be one or more every day hoping we will forget Mueller's televised hearing. Won't be watching or reading any paper for now. This is too much and nobody does anything about it!!!
11
@Lee
I won’t be forgetting Mueller, or the latest rape accusation, or the harmful deregulation, or the chumming around with dictators, or...............
5
Can someone tell me whether the Justice Department is required to obey the rule of law as instructed by the court, or beholden to the whims of the president?
My understanding is that the law should be upheld, which would hold that Justice should not act according to the presidents unlawful requests.
19
We are on slippery, treacherous ground as a nation. Our President is openly defying the Supreme Court. If the census goes forward with the citizenship question included, then impeachment MUST begin. This time, however, Mitch won’t be able to hide in his shell. Unless, of course, he is complicit with Trump in an autocratic, law defying extremist takeover of the pillars of our society.
17
I am a bit confused. Since when does a census not ask place of birth or allude to citizenship in some way?
Of course it is important to know the number of citizens and number of non-citizens in the country for policy making. Why is this controversial? Is it because Trump will most probably use it for partisan hate mongering?
Is that reason enough to behave like an ostrich and not count the number of us citizens and non-us citizens? How will immigration policies be formed unless the data is not present?
6
@SincerityNow Your questions certainly could be relevant to the census. Unfortunately, Trump wanted and got caught putting the question on the census in order to distort voting districts in favor of the Republicans. He could care less about why you want the question on the census.
1
The census is used to count the number of people in the country, period. The long form is used for more detailed information.
4
Further proof that the Supreme Court is poised to be supremely partisan - in goose step with the politically contaminated Justice Department - without any regard for the rule of law as it is now written and understood. How difficult is it for the American public to recognize and then censure unequivocally what is clearly an illicit power grab? Failure to do so courts, the pun intentional, demolition of democratic values and ensures the establishment of an autocracy.
5
@JT Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh all voted for voter suppression in this case, knowing full well why the Republicans wanted it on the census. These are your four goose steppers.
5
This will be a Trumps Achille’s heel.
3
King Trump...off with his coif!
5
The shifting sands of Trumpworld. It is what he says it is. No matter what it was, no matter what is real.
6
If the President feels this is an “important question” that must be decided he should be called as a witness in the lower court proceedings to explain why.
7
If there's a citizenship question on the questionnaire, all Democrats should submit multiple copies of the census form (to indicate multiple households at the same address), add more people as members of their households, and either fail to answer this question and/or claim to be non-citizens as a protest. We can't let the reprobate succeed in under counting the populations in the large blue metro areas of this country and thereby create even more over-representation of the deplorable areas.
4
He will change his mind 3 more times. Trump has never had a permanent commitment in his life to anything except to money.
11
You know, it occurs to me that trump is so awful he could be doing Democracy a favor. By making plain the faults in our system he is showing the weakness of our checks and balances. Which offers us an opportunity to take note, and shore up the cracks where scoundrels can work their way in if we aren't careful.
11
@Syd
Syd, honey, this is not a trial run. Our country is broken, for real.
If we ever do recover from the damage done to our democracy, electoral system, and the rule of law, by this administration, it will take many years. At 63, I don’t expect to live long enough to see it. Perhaps you will.
This is no longer the same country as the one we lived in two and a half years ago. That country is gone.
2
scoundrels?
we're way past scoundrelism, sorry to say
1
It looks as if Trump is running a personal disinformation campaign on twitter.
10
Correct. He has been coached by Putin; most recently at the G20.
2
That was predictable. He lets some lame idea go - then reads Breitbart and panics.
11
Wow! This is a bad picture. The rule of law is being is now a toy for the President to play with. Ahh! So much is not new anymore. What has happened to us? It was a surprise. Now it’s just keeps breathing exhaust
9
America needs a class action lawsuit against Donald J. Trump.
10
This makes me sick. WHY did they change their minds? In that action they have flushed democracy down the toilet.
The census will now be another way to keep people coming from elsewhere from having a voice.
Is the Justice Department now one of Mr Trump's arms?
7
William Barr. No need to say more than that I guess.
1
Natural born US citizens, children of undocumented parents, WILL NOT BE COUNTED! How is this legal!
6
From the outside looking in: If Trump gets his way, this is how it will look like:
El Dictator is warning his sycophants that he is the boss and the court ruling is just a worthless piece of paper.
8
Plus he owns the Supreme Court's right-wing supplicants. This has been worked out over five decades by the Republican Army...oops, I mean Party, the Heritage Foundation, the US Chamber of Commerce, democracy's assassins who staked out and captured the Supreme Court majority, Sheldion Adelson's billions, the Koch's ALEX that buys state legislators' loyalty, and a lineup of some of the most nefarious, self-dealing, criminally conspiring individuals in America's entire history. Note Trump's absence from the lineup: he's too stupid and narcissistic to plan a conspiracy. He's merely the marionette to capture the put-upons imagination: if one so doltish can capture the White House, they imagine, their future will be Pie in the Sky, too. Life in our Conspiratory Society.
2
The imbecile wants his birtherism smelling up the land again.
This time it is you and I
7
It's time to put the tanks to work to rid the Oval Office of intruders.
5
The tanks are mainly antique Shermans, inferior WW2 models that made a fortune for General Motors and Ford; and 80-ton Main Battle Tanks too big and heavy to travel on our highways, for the nation's defense; tanks that must be shuttled around internationally to battles where new guided munitions make each vulnerable to foot soldiers. But we won't talk about that over the sound of the $10,000-per hour planes flying overhead. the sound and no fury. just fascist ostentation
1
The cancer of Donald has spread to the Justice Department.
21
Oh, but no - cancer in the justice department was just in remission. Not so long ago there was John Mitchell; you will recall he did jail time. And of course there was Sessions & now cancer returns again.
WE THE PEOPLE are letting our politicians pick us as their voters. That's the central point of the Census question: How Congressional Districts will be redrawn. Many of us care about this. Yet, it seem the majority of voters don't care, don't understand or feel it benefits their side so are apathetic about the issue. It's at the heart of our political system and yet the Supreme Court, the only non-partisan body in our government had dodged the issue over the ages, and finally said it's none of their business. I'm appalled.
14
The citizenship of people in the US is a fundamentally important question that exceeds any objections to the question. It should be asked.
I want to know the answer to this question.
10
@Hooey
Phooey! You will not get the answer to your question through the addition of this question. Undocumented parents have children who are US citizens (btw, same, equal to yours or mine!) who will not be counted, because their parents will not participate in the census!
8
@Hooey
I suggest that you do an internet search for articles and government documents about lower Census response rates in the Sun Belt, rural Appalachia, and rural/frontier Western states. These areas, largely white and USA citizens, have historically had low response rates... for many decades.
Therefore, adding a citizenship question won’t give you the answer that you desire.
5
The Constitution does not require citizenship, just that “free persons” be counted. And, sadly, rules for slaves and Native Americans as less than said free persons.
The intent of the question is to skew the count, plain and simple.
4
Defying the Supreme Court should compel the House to begin impeachment proceedings. It's probably what Trump wants, and it will rile up his base, but a majority of the electorate will support it. This would be a point of no return.
9
I hope that no one's surprised that Trump is refusing to obey the courts. It's just one more act of his envy of Kim Jong-un’s unquestioned authoritarian demands for supplication. Trump’s ordering the massing of “his” demanded salutes from "his" massed troops parading by on July 4 is just one more part of it and is Kim personified. This ex-soldier is sickened.
And, the degenerated Republican Party band plays on.
12
It is surprising and disappointing that so many of officials in Justice and Commerce Departments continue to serve Trump and follow his tweets rather than resign and demonstrated that the tweets and actions of this President undermines the foundation of democracy and good governance.
11
Why on earth did Judge Hazel place so much currency in a Trump Tweet, he decided to initiated a call to the Justice Department; opening the door to Trump's next move; ordering the question to be placed on the Census?
Curiosity killed the cat; overzealous diligence"(re: James Comey) ) and now a Judge with a Twitter account following Donald Trump- who just "had to know".
1
Unless I am wrong (not the first time today) the Supreme Court gave a limited (and not a complete, final) ruling earlier, and allowed Trump another try by this Friday - with a different approach to the argument. So Trump is trying another approach? He is not "splitting" anything and the court will hear the arguments and then make a final decision. Anyone who knows a hair about civil law knows there is a process at work here which involves splitting hairs, not the rule of law.. Save the rage until we hear more. Better yet be happy and go out and so something nice for someone else. I mean for just one person. Or maybe two or three?
3
Trump voters know what the Supreme Court said. They know that the reasoning was to cheat. Yet they still support this administration. What does that say about our country?
3
Maybe Trump will also order that ICE provide the census enumerators. They will go door to door in uniform, their service revolver at the hip. If necessary, four or five will go as a group. They not only will get all the questions answered, but will also be allowed go get angry in a hurry, make arrests, pull their service revolvers if anyone at all, gives them any sort of "smarty" answer and yes ... lots of paddy wagons parked all over the place. Maybe they could also order people to take a Trump 2020 button, and pin it on themselves, if necessary at gunpoint.
3
@NTH
In other words a scenario straight from the "Handmaids Tale" .
1
Perhaps trump will order that a question be placed in the census, to wit: Do you support President Trump? If the answer is no, you will then be required to wear a Blue star while trump orders that sufficient detention centers can be built.
1
Tomorrow we celebrate Trump’s successful ending of Independence Day in favor of Dictator Day, where a Trump claims victory over the Rule of Law.
The “winning” just never ends.
8
Given the Supreme Court position and the popular resistance to the question it is highly likely that if it were to appear the data would be corrupted and the census invalid. A huge waste of time and money- taxpayer money. I say RESIST! Someone must stand up to Trump the defilement of our values morals and democracy.
4
1) Trump's riling up his base on immigration. They, and he, hate people with tan or brown skin. Whether he wins or loses on this question, his base will be angry, and motivated to vote for him.
2) Trump's a champ at misdirection...we all fall for each disturbing tweet. What are he and Congress doing while the world pays attention to this issue? This is very important, but his under-the-table actions are even worse.
5
Leave the question blank, The ultimate non-violent protest
3
One can only imagine the angry tweets of the base, along with the pundits criticizing Trump for "giving up without a fight", building up a head of heated steam in Trumps head until he just can't control himself any longer and......tweet!
3
The citizen question used to be on the census. It should have never been taken off!!!
4
@Brerr ... and "under God" was originally not in the Pledge of Allegiance... it should never have been shoved in!
But the citizenship question was ONLY ASKED A COUPLE TIMES AND IN LIMITED WAYS.
See:
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/597436512/fact-check-has-citizenship-been-a-standard-census-question
8
This is straight from the playbook of Trump's hero, Andrew Jackson. When John Marshall's Supreme Court ruled the Cherokees were a sovereign nation, Jackson's Trumpian response was, "Let's see him enforse." What resulted was the Trail of Tears.
8
tyranny
noun,
arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority.
6
Hold the horses, people!
Trump clearly hasn't thought this through, or he would dump the citizenship question in a hurry!
Let's look at the scenarios:
1) The citizenship question is added. There are two ways the people facing the questionnaire can respond: First, they do not answer, thereby flagging themselves as being potential illegal aliens and inviting a visit from ICE. OR, they respond in the affirmative, i.e. citizen, then the odds are on their side. There are way more citizen households in the country than illegal alien households. Therefore, the chance of being detected is smaller if they answer the census and say 'Yes' to the citizenship question. And the illegals have nothing to lose.
Result: Republicans lose, because there will be disproportionate 'compliance' by non-citizens who favor voting Democrat. Ergo more Democratic seats in the House.
2) The citizenship question is NOT added. In that case, illegal alien households may disproportionately not answer the census, but their non-compliance will be lost in the sea of non-compliant citizens, thus Republican districts will be favored disproportionately.
Result: Republicans win.
I would say: Let Trump have his way, include the citizenship question and inform every alien in the country how to answer in his or her best interest, so that we can get rid of Trump AND the GOP in the most expedient way.
I can't wait to see their long faces when they realize how Trump's 'strategy' has backfired!
1
Write or call your representatives regardless of your party affiliation or theirs and tell them you expect them to support and enforce the Constitution. Tell them you vote and let them know how many seats are in your car that you intend to offer to other people who vote.
5
Isn’t it literally unconstitutional to add the question? When will the insanity in DC end!
2
@Meg No. Not it is not unconstitutional.
2
@Meg
It is literally unconstitutional, indeed.
Just like using our military for personal glorification and political campaign is literally unconstitutional. Just like holding hostages almost million people to extort money for fiction wall.
3
Geez Louise. It is specified IN the Constitution itself that there will be a census every 10 years and that every person will be counted (person not citizen). Couldn't be more Constitutional. What's not Constitutional is asking if said person is a citizen. The Constitution says nothing whatsoever about counting citizens.
1
Everything in American life--that means everything--is now partisan, thanks to Donald Trump and the Republican Party. This country is being torn apart by a group of individuals who fear their access to power is constantly at risk. If we fall, China will take our place. And for that, we'll have the Republican Party and American conservatives to thank.
12
The President and Mitch McConnell have attempted to put in place Justices who will do their partisan authoritarian bidding. When he loses a case as he did with this citizenship question ruling and tries to assert his own will directly he shows that justice was never his intent, but only the desire to bend the rest of government to his egotistical will. Checks and balances, the constitution be damned and if he gets away with it our democracy is over. Trump mocks and degrades anyone who disagrees with him and tomorrow he will order the military into the streets to do a song and dance at the celebration of our 'democracy'.
4
I knew this administration would not let go of corrupting the census!!!!@
3
Trump is a despot, plain and simply. Dangerous and seemingly unstoppable.
I fear for our nation.
10
Another day, another trampling on the Constitution, and still no impeachment inquiry. #disgusted
6
Let’s stop talking and acting like we still have a functioning democracy. We don’t. We have a lawless administration and Republican Congress. We’ve been fighting them with our gloves on and they’ve been using brass knuckles!
Trump is behaving tyrannically and is well on his way to becoming the First American DICTATOR. We need to use phrases like “Mussolini tactics”. “Steps taken by Hitler’s followers...”, “when discussing what’s going on.
Trump supporters would be delighted to live under a Trump dictatorship. They will be using increasingly dangerous language as they become emboldened by Trump’s tyrannical tirades at his pep rallies.
Republican members of Congress will gladly give Trump DICTATORIAL powers if it means they will be re-elected.
Be Afraid. Very Afraid.
6
Trump just wants to be worshiped.
5
Like every tyrant.
Anyone ever wonder why the constitution uses the term people instead of citizen when describing how to allocate congressional seats?
If’s because of the 3/5 compromise that allocated slaves as 3/5 a person. The NYT doesn’t want you to know that tidbit because it goes against their narrative. The Supreme Court should have reinterpreted this one word when we got rid of slavery.
9
We are now in Banana Republic territory. Happy Independence Day.
6
And will Nancy write Trump another pleading letter as she did after she and chuck caved in and threw billions of unfettered money to Trump hoping maybe there will be a miracle and a little of the money may get to the people in cages in those concentration camps.
Nancy should be fired for always giving in to Trump. What phony and useless protest is she going to enact this time? Does anyone wonder why Trump thinks he is above the law? The corporate Democrats refuse to do their job. Thank God for the Democrats who do not take bribes and voted against that bill.
They are our fighters. I wish any one of them could be Speaker of the House , then we would see real aid get to those men and women and children in those cages. And we would see Trump held accountable. Probably for the first time in his life. Ah what a relief. Please get rid of Nancy. Did you know her son has gone to New Years Eve parties at Mara lago or what ever that golf course is called. Cozy is as Cozy does
2
Humpty Trumpy did another big flip.
“Do as I say or suffer my snit!”
Count brown and black little and few.
Rig the Census for Republican rule.
Yes men in the Senate,
Mighty Supremes will obey.
Good-bye Independence!
‘Tis now fascism’s day.
5
@Donna Nieckula
Do you think illegal aliens should have the right to determine the president? Census data are used to determine the number of congressional districts, which translate to electoral votes.
Counting illegals in the census gives states with a lot of them an unjustifiable number of representatives.
Section 2 of the 14th amendment implies that the right to vote can be denied to people, and the number of representatives of that state can be adjusted accordingly.
4
@Raz
I think that the Decennial Census should count every person residing in the USA, just as intended.
While some states have higher numbers of immigrants (both documented and undocumented), virtually all states have immigrant residents. Immigrants are located in rural, suburban, and urban areas, in red, blue, and purple Congressional Districts... throughout the USA.
It may be more worthwhile to figure out how to improve response rates in Sun Belt, rural Appalachian, and rural/frontier Western states... (lots of white citizens refuse to respond)... than to stoop down to racism and xenophobia in order to skew the population count to favor Republicans.
2
@Donna Nieckula
The 14th amendment was adopted in 1868, and I doubt they anticipated the large numbers of illegals that we have now.
Indicating whether they are citizens doesn't mean they can't be counted, they just won't have voting weight.
The proportion of illegals in some states is a lot higher than others (exceptional examples: CA & NY). Counting them in these states skews the count in favor of Dem's, and they know it.
1
The question is how to ensure that each and every person in the country, irrespective of citizenship status, is definitely counted as required by the Constitution but counted only once. The citizenship question may depress the undocumented people's count, to the disadvantage of the Democrats. On the other hand, as they are without any documentation, one has to think about what kind of controls can be used to make sure that they are not counted multiple times, to the disadvantage of the Republicans, which is a greater disadvantage because the undercount potential is limited to one per person whereas the overcount potential per person has no upper limit.
1
Now, there's no justice with Trump's justice department. Only crackpotism. I say impeach the criminal.
3
The chaos president
The lawless president
A fascist in training
What a joke he has made of our country.
2