Bashing white gay men is hardly going to make any difference in the struggle of LGBTI people of color. The initial fight for rights centered around gay men and lesbians. The B and T were added later (later than it should have). The majority were white. ACT UP was started by GWM and the ranks of that organization and later Queer Nation fought for every inch of equality we see the fight continuing for today. Both organizations were overwhelmingly white. I was there. I saw it. The people of color at that time faced profound discrimination and condemnation within their communities. Whites also experienced it, but often had better educations and white entitlements that allowed them the mobility to escape the small towns and narrow minds of wherever they came from. Gay ghettos were born. Being out from under the prejudice at home, living out loud and proud, Gay Pride grew and radicalism advanced. We didn't want tolerance. We wanted acceptance.
Thank those that went before, even if most were white. Cut some slack for those who had too much to lose and didn't participate. Gay men had more power to fight for rights. Lesbians had more power in the Women's movement to advance their rights. They also made a huge difference in the fight against AIDS when they picked up where so many dead gay men had succumbed to the disease. They fought for us and also attended to the sick and dying.
For the people of color in this article, now is their time to fight.
12
July 1, 2019
It may be that is dealing with divisions in the makeup of the Pride parade that we consider one parade with groups those to join the street march - by gender absolute categories, as such - the front of the parade would be the men and sections as: gay, by, trans, undecided gender, gay men anti women en masse, gay macho real men cowboys, police, military, jail security, gay men perpetual teen obsession, gay priest whatever religion..and then second group after the guys are the gay women and similarity in guy types mentioned for men.....It is in respect to natural gender and the basic goal for the celebration for freedom of expressions while at the same time identifying what it is that is to the pride of trans formative expression that may or may not be permanent for ones life journey and therein lies the joy for living life exploratory and with sharing the journey with public discourse.
jja
1
Why would anybody think that the socio-economic structures of power would be any different in this community from the one in our society as a whole? We live in a society where being a white male is an advantage while being a woman and a minority is a disadvantage. Equality in each social segment will only come when we achieve equality at a more general level.
13
In 2014, my wife and I were in Tel Aviv to visit my 92-year-old cousin, who was in very poor health. We were surprised to see Tel Aviv covered with rainbow flags--more than we had ever seen in New York.
3
The language police are doing real harm.
Never gave much thought to who made up those protesting back in the late 80's -- but let's be honest. It was mostly white men .. I was in NYC/ DC/ Philadelphia .. that's who was out there. The black men I knew were terrified of being out -- there was horrible homophobia in the black community. People actually thought AIDS was a "white" problem early on. The drag queens .... yes -- they were there both black and white.
People dying and funerals --- you can't be in the closet when your friends are sick and dead. That's what drove the movement -- people changed behavior ... new infections dropped dramatically. Now, you can't even discuss behavior modification and everybody should be on a drug that we don't know the long term effects ? ... are they ever good?
Stonewall ? It's like Woodstock ...... everybody you talk to was there and played a huge part. Even if not born.
It's sad we have divisions -- with everything it seems today. Including language.
We have made great progress -- be grateful and fight on !
10
Trans, black and Hispanic LGBT folks love their gay white male friends. Surely they wouldn't throw them under the bus now after all they've been through together? I won't believe it.
3
The alienation of women by trans women activists is very much alive, open bullying and slur-slinging included. If any doubt, just you wait for the responses this comment will get.
4
I know it’s Pride month, but to be honest I am weary of the disproportionately large number of NYT articles focusing on the LGBT population, which is <10% of Americans. It feels like the NYT has an agenda to push. Don’t believe me? Then ask yourself why the Times spends so little time reporting on the largest marginalized group in America — people with disabilities.
Maybe their stories aren’t dramatic enough. Maybe they’re too impoverished to be able to agitate for themselves. Maybe they’re bedridden and unable to march in a parade. Or maybe they’re not sexy and youthful enough for today’s media.
October is National Disability Awareness Month. How about it, NYT?
17
Well said!
2
@FlipFlop — it doesn't have to be an either/or you know.
8
I worked in a gay bar where all the employees were white for a short time while I was in college. I was asked by some of the guys if I worked with date a black man. I told them sure. From that moment on they never stopped harassing me, the bullying was like nothing I had ever experienced. The bar burned down a few months later, these guys told the police that I did it (I could prove that I was in another state that weekend and it turned out to be a kitchen fire anyways). Racism is rampant in the gay community.
11
This has got to be one of the most ill-informed articles I have read in the Times in a long time. I suspect it may be because Ms. Bellafante failed to actually do research into the history of the gay rights movement through the 20th century and instead has depended on comments from people who are too young to actually know what happened 50 to 10 years ago who could have better informed her of the way things were and what transpired to over the forty year span to get to where we are today. Ms. Bellafante fails to account for the actual facts that everyday gay and lesbian people of all backgrounds continue to face discrimination and that the struggle for equal rights has never stopped and isn't likely going to get to a place where there is nothing left to do.
5
Wait, so gay people are a uniform bloc of identical thinkers, but a diverse tapestry of people representing all sorts of ideas?!
4
Transsexuals are often treated unkindly, and even shamefully, and that should be addressed, and rectified.
Although I haven't done a scientific study, it seems to me that at least 50% of what is written about ( I'm not up to date about how many letters of the alphabet are currently required ) the movement.
There is disagreement about what % of the population would be considered trans. One reputable estimate is one in 300. They get more than their share of attention.
Whoever decided this CIS nomenclature is no slacker in the arrogance department. Should all eight billion of us now on the planet accept this new categorization ?
Not I. They would deem me CIS, but I will never be bullied into defining myself thus.
I was at the Stonewall ( nobody ever called it the Stonewall Inn )
the night it opened, and probably 80 - 100 other times. I wasn't there for the uprising, however, I had stopped going there about a year earlier.
9
No one owns us.
No one has any claim on representing us.
I mean all of us.
Try as you may, you will fail.
I remember when the slogan Gay is Good was considered really radical.
Now it is just a fact for me and many others.
Why?
'Cause I am willing to accept me as good and part of who I am is gay.
So, yeah, it is good.
And, yes, lots of people are suffering and racism and self-hate and homophobia and every other type of phobia abounds.
Every night before I sleep I tell myself: tonight I will experience all levels of healing. All self limiting concepts will be released.
I will be taught all that I need to learn to live a more fulfilled life.
In the morning I will experience all of this and throughout the rest of my days and nights.
I do this every night.
It has changed my life.
Check it out.
3
Why would the gay community be any different from the larger “straight” world? Rich white people have more money and power. People of color are marginalized. Women get less respect. Unfortunately, this seems to be the inevitable outcome of “normalizing” gay people and gay relationships. You see, we’re just like everybody else. We guard our privilege and are reluctant to share it with those who are without. And if our less privileged brothers and sisters are thrown under the bus, why should that unpleasantness interrupt a perfectly fabulous World Pride Weekend, with its endless round of parties, VIP sections and corporate sponsorships? Enjoy!
6
Why would you expect that everyone who likes pizza would have the same politics?
8
Must every issue be reduced to a Marxian class struggle and/or a racial justice issue? Get real. In every instance, and gay rights is one of them, somebody, somewhere is getting the short end of the stick. Someone is not enjoying their full and equal place at the table. It is very noble, but frankly tiring, to be constantly reminded about this fact.
17
I’m sorry, but in what world has the campaign for gay freedoms inched closer to completion? When gay kids across this country are still mercilessly bullied in our schools and at home, when gay couples holding hands can get violently attacked in the streets, when casual homophobia can still be met with a public laugh, when gay employees can get fired for who they love, very few would argue that the struggle is nearly over, any more than people would argue that the campaign for women’s rights and racial equity is over because legal rights have been attained. This is another instance where the NYTimes is attempting to minimize gay rights and focus on gender and race. The oppression Olympics is tiresome. Stop.
15
@IntentReader
"This is another instance where the NYTimes is attempting to minimize gay rights and focus on gender and race." Yes. And let's not forget that that actually is what has been done to gay people for centuries: to say, as Herman Cain did a few years back, that he couldn't choose his skin color, but that gay people could choose their "lifestyles." That gender and race are serious oppressions, but gay people have these fabulous, easy, lives. If that isn't the same old bigotry, I don't know what to call it.
5
There are two main problems with this article: 1) it conflates gay rights with issues that racial minorities face independently of being gay, as well as tending to equate trans issues with gay issues; 2) it fails to recognize the extent to which gay people remain marginalized within the larger heterosexual society, liberal urban subcultures aside.
To say "[t]he campaign... has inched closer to a sense of victory and completion…." is wrong. Black people won constitutional protections in 1863. Gay people do not even have those basic protections now. Obergefell was decided four years ago by exactly 1 Justice, Anthony Kennedy, who is now retired. Kids across this country are not growing up presented with equal images of gay families; there continues to be a huge weight of past attitudes. Black people found out the hard way that 1863 didn't mean deliverance. Given the continued influence of Western religions, as well as the fact that most gay people grow up in heterosexual families and therefore don't inherit the same kind of consciousness about oppression that racial minorities do, there will be a very long road ahead, including backsliding. I have to say that I think this type of "reporting" is irresponsible. I don't think it's fair for an apparently heterosexual reporter (according to Wikipedia) to speak for me here, any more than it would have been for a white person to say that racism was defeated in 1870. And that, ironically, speaks to how far gay rights still have to go.
14
@Andrew. Gina educated me big time with this article. Glad of it, too. A little less smug going forward.
2
@Andrew—totally agree. When someone says women’s rights or the struggle against racism is far from over, heads nod in a certain segment of the woke left, as if what you’ve uttered is profound wisdom. And yet, when someone says the campaign for gay rights is far from over, its fashionable in some quarters to minimize anything to do with gay men, focusing on the supposed rampant misogyny, racism, and transphobia in the gay male community. A tiresome, zero-sum view of the world, as if there is only a certain amount of oppression to go around, and that, in order to speak about trans discrimination, or the intense homophobia faced by black and brown gays and lesbians, you must reduce the discrimination faced by gay men or white gay men. Ridiculous.
4
You’ve heard that expression ‘Pride goeth before the fall?’
Will Pride goeth before the Stonewall?
As the gay rights movement branch into multiple sects
We can expect these kind of divisions, more or less
2
@Very Confused -- The Oxford English dictionary lists three definitions for the word "pride":
"1 [uncountable, singular] a feeling of pleasure or satisfaction that you get when you or people who are connected with you have done something well or own something that other people admire The sight of her son graduating filled her with pride. He felt a glow of pride as people stopped to admire his garden. pride (in something) I take (a) pride in my work. pride (in doing something) We take great pride in offering the best service in town. I looked with pride at what I had achieved. Success in sport is a source of national pride.
2 [uncountable] the feeling of respect that you have for yourself Pride would not allow him to accept the money. Her pride was hurt. Losing his job was a real blow to his pride. It's time to swallow your pride (= hide your feelings of pride) and ask for your job back.
3 [uncountable] (disapproving) the feeling that you are better or more important than other people Male pride forced him to suffer in silence. "
"Pride in the Biblical verswe you mention is an example of the third definition: "Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. " (Proverbs 16:18).
"Pride" as used in Gay Pride is a reference to the second definition. Its context is that LGBT people should take pride in who they are (as in, respect themselves), rather than endure the shame they were relegated to while still in the closet.
3
The gay movement succeeded in part because the economy moved towards brainpower industries, and gay people are just as smart and creative, if not more so. The metrosexual programmer added more value than the butch mechanic.
Just as the benefits of overall economic growth are uneven, so it is with the benefits of gay liberation.
4
It is conveniently omitted that the violence gays and trans of color face is almost 100% from people of their own racial background. Why are white gay men getting the hostility over violence towards black trans women when white gay men are responsible for about 0% of it? Even white straight men commit very little of it.
I remember well the 80s and how many black activists encouraged their community into thinking AIDS was a government plot to kill blacks. This was repeated by some very powerful black activists, politicians and celebrities. The result was that while more white gays were proactive blacks were not.
For whatever flaws white gays may have they are responsible for very little of the burden people of color- whether gay, trans or not-face. I see the exact same scapegoating of white feminists who likewise, while imperfect, are being scapegoated for the problems black people face that is primarily coming from people of their own race. Stop with the guilt trips. Who's committing the violence towards these people? That is who should be targeted. Not white gay men. This reeks of extortion.
13
@Lisa R It strikes me that when human beings have been historically marginalized and discriminated against because of skin color or ethnicity, and are trying hard to move ahead themselves and to provide a way forward for their children, that they may have a very hard time accepting behaviors deemed deviant from their children. It's possible that white privilege smoothed the path more for some.
1
Walked past Stonewall Inn on Christopher Street yesterday with my wife and adult daughter. Thousands of smiles and tons of happiness. I recalled what a gay friend told me when I asked him a stupid question, "How come you're gay?" He asked me if I remembered about 5th or 6th grade when I started to become aroused looking at girls. I said "Yes" and he asked me, "Did you intentionally will or solicit that feeling or did it simply happen to you?" I admitted that the "urges" overtook me whether I liked it or not. He looked at me and said, "Paul, that did not happen to me." Such is all the argument I'll ever need in accepting my PRIDE brethren.
5
I have been HIV+ for 31 years. I have not progressed and am fortunate that my viral load has been undetectable for the last 16 years. Why? I religiously take my meds. I no longer have any risky sex.
My doctors tell me that the biggest problems they have with their patients is non compliance with the very expensive drugs provided and, too many gay men continuing to have risky sex. It is incumbent on the gay community to discourage rampant drug use and sex orgies. At least have enough self respect to not ask for a horrible and debilitating illness.
7
There has always been a hierarchy in the Gay Pride, or Gay Anything movement. We lesbians have always known this and fought valiantly against it.
As a lesbian who took part in consciousness-raising events, was at the first Gay Pride parade in Los Angeles, and helped plan and execute the first Harvey Milk tribute, I can state unequivocally that it wasn't just African-American gay men who were marginalized, or ignored completely.
I find it quite damning the gay community is still at war with itself and that lesbians and minorities are still marginalized. I also find it terrifying that many of the same things I was fighting for as a teenage lesbian are still in evidence today.
While some things in our community may have changed: we can marry and have children and some of our protections and rights have been strengthened, there's been a continual attempt at eroding the perception of equality and normalization.
I doubt our fight for recognition and parity will ever end. As long as religion is allowed to influence and shape public opinion, anyone who's different will be at risk.
5
As long as we are a white male dominated society, white males, gay, straight or trans, will always be at the top of the socio-economic ladder. Power structures do not change regardless of the social segment.
1
One of my favorite quotes is one of Dr. Ruth...."Whatever happens between two consenting adults is fine with me...".
I entirely concur with that philosophy. I also agree that people with different sexual orientations should not feel ashamed or be discriminated against.
But exposing one's sexual orientation in a provocative way "in our faces" is too much for me. And many times the LGBT community is going too far in making their case into an unpleasant spectacle.
Live your life in freedom and discretion is a balance worthwhile to consider.
3
@Harry
I'm glad you see yourself as a supporter of gay rights -- and yet, what you say sounds very familiar. I see heterosexuals exposing their sexual orientation in a provocative way in my face all the time. A couple weeks ago a lesbian couple were beat up on a public bus in London for giving a quick kiss -- the kind of thing that heterosexuals don't even notice that they do all of the time. That consciousness has been with me my entire life. We know our place, as blacks did in the segregated south.
4
@Andrew First of all, I abhor violence and condemn vigorously that beating up in London. There is no excuse for such behavior.
I accept that most in this forum will disagree with me, but personally, as much as I accept what happens between consenting adults, homosexual orientation is ok, it is not the same as heterosexual orientation. I DO make a difference between a male and a female kissing and same sex kissing in public.
Accepting that some people are different does not make it a norm. The acceptance of other people's sexual orientation is not the same as wanting to expose my children to that life-style (whether chosen or genetic).
I wish LGBT all the happiness and freedom in the world, but the norm of human life remains hetero. I realize that this comment may provoke angry reactions, but I also know that many will agree with me. As I said, find the balance between freedom and discretion.
1
To me, Harry, passionate kissing in public whether by straight people or gay people seems a bit vulgar. All that noisy sucking of mouths.
It belongs elsewhere, not in my face.
1
If the gay community really wants to get serious about addressing issues of race and class, it would have to start with one of it's most beloved summer destinations: Fire Island Pines. And I am not talking primarily about those very wealthy gay men who own summer homes there; I am talking more about middle class gay people, who scrimp and save all year in order to spend 3 or 4 months pretending to hobnob with the fashion designers and movie producer types who summer there. The crowd tends to be overwhelmingly white. And the custom of hing "houseboys" -- young gay men of modest means but good looks who aren't generally included in the community's social life continues apace. For as enlightened as we in the gay community like to think of ourselves as being, we do have some pretty significant blind spots!
10
@Mark Kessinger
I fail to see how this is racist. People tend to gravitate to those whose cultural norms are similar to theirs. I have noticed a tendency to label people racist not for actually doing anything racist but for failing to center ones life around black people. Whereas the enormous amounts of open hatred blacks parade towards gays and other minorities doesn't get the same condemnation as white gay men who simply don't spend inordinate amount of times proclaiming their solidarity for the largest and most powerful minority in this country. White gays are not committing the violence again POC so it's cowardly to scapegoat them like this.
2
I believe in a world where the rainbow flag is everyone’s flag, and there is a stripe for each of us, LGBTQI , straight, Asian, Muslim, Christian, or whatever we are. We’re all people, and none of us are lesser or greater than one another.
I have no doubt that we aren’t there yet, but I hope LGBTQI people know that you aren’t alone; there are many millions of straight people who support your struggle and we dearly believe you have every right to be treated no differently than anyone else in society. I’m so happy to see all of the hard-won gains that have been made in the past decade, but we aren’t done and we support you.
8
One thing that’s really disturbing to me is the Andy Cohenization of gay life, the idea that it’s all about fabulousness and popularity and that money and looks are more important than anything else. There is much about gay life that is based only on superficiality. When the trendiness of being gay/trans etc gets old and Andy moves on to the next fad, low income and distressed members of the community will be the hardest hit.
24
I think it is a bit of an overstatement to say that the political and legal part of gay rights is nearing the finish line. LGBTQ people are still not a protected class at the Federal level, and in many states, people can still be denied housing, fired from their jobs, and treated as second-class citizens. We've still got a way to go. Let's not kid ourselves.
But the personal is where many LGBTQ people are still struggling. Whether it's internalized homophobia, being disowned by their families, physical attacks, substance abuse, or an overall lack of self-esteem, many LGBTQ people still see themselves as outcasts, not accepted by our society.
Yes, there is a feeling of strength in numbers, and pride parades give everybody a glow for a brief time, a sense that we are all smart and talented and beautiful and valued. It's great that the turnout in places like NYC, SF, LA, and DC show that there are many organizations that are accepting and supportive. But sadly, the kids in small-town Louisiana and Missouri aren't feeling it.
The world is changing, no doubt. And that should be celebrated. But let's not sugar-coat the reality. Being LGBTQ in America is no walk in the park.
21
It's a lie that drag queens and transsexuals "gave birth" to the LGBT movement at Stonewall. Stonewall was a mostly white and male bar. Were drag queens, lesbians and transsexuals part of the Stonewall riots? Yes. Did they compose the majority of those rioting? Not even close.
57
@Shane Thank you for bringing this up. The rewriting of history in truly disturbing. I have noticed that if a movement has 1000 people and 2 were black they will be framed as the leaders even if their role was no biggest than the other 998. I have seen plenty of pictures of Stonewall and various other gay rights protests. Blacks are present but do not make up a huge percent in any of them. Ditto for the feminist movement which has also been rewritten as having black women front and center. They were certainly involved but not the leaders to the extent that today's activists are claiming. History revisionism is dangerous and the irony is these people are doing exactly what white rightwingers have (rightfully) been condemned for: rewriting history with the intention of placing "their" people on a pedestal and to claim superiority over others.
30
There are only a handful of photographs from the Riots/Uprising. Historians mostly assembled the events from interviews with participants and the few reporters on scene. They confirmed that Blacks, Puerto Ricans, and drag queens were frequent Stonewall patrons in the months leading up to June 1969.
The Riots lasted a few days and most of that was protests and police confrontations, not wanton violence. People even took the subway in to participate. But the initial events after the police raid (that sparked it) involved bar patrons particularly drag queens and people of color. Some of the participants said the Riots happened because the people from Harlem were willing to fight the police. The police became trapped in the bar because people were lobbing bottles, cans, etc. at them. News reports from the time attributed much of the initial reaction to drag queens or trans individuals. Once the fighting started, people in the neighborhood or at nearby bars joined. You realize that Stonewall wasn’t the only gay bar in the area? It was just the one they raided that night. Why didn’t those White men fight back in the past?
Before Stonewall there were White gay rights groups like the Mattachine Society. But it took an event like Stonewall to spark the movement.
9
@Lisa R What is shocking is realizing that those on the left who we've been in the trenches with weren't interested in refuting censorship, they were interested in getting their grubby mitts on the levers of power so they could do the exact same thing.
5
Compelling ersatz “pride”generating majoritarian anomie, not only pity but an even worse judgement: derision.
5
As emotionally satisfying as may be to believe that drag queens and 'queer women of color' gave birth to the movement, it's not factually true. The post war gay movement had its roots in the Marxist salons of 1950s Greenwich Village before it was taken up by the boomer New Left in the late 60s and 70s.
The Stonewall melee was not the first and only one of its kind; it just happened to be the one the NYC Gay Liberation Front successfully used as a cause celebre. Blacks and Latinos were minor participants in a movement made up of young, mostly Anglo middle class radicals.
In 1984, gay activists supported Mondale. The gay community voted for Reagan. The only gay Mondale voters I could find were black, voting for him for reasons of ethnicity. After 84' AIDS radicalized everyone creating the affluent, celebrity studded Democratic parvenus of the HRC we know today.
The reason why the fiction that the movement was somehow founded by "marginalized-ethno-drag-trans" people is so problematic is because it diminishes the impact that ideas have on social change. Mixner is only half right - it's not that early activists had 'nothing to lose,' it's that they were ideologically and politically motivated. The earliest straight supporters weren't the Joe Bidens of the world, but black elected officials who supported gay rights as a matter of principle, even if as Evangelicals they were uncomfortable.
29
@Gary FS I'm not sure where you lived in '84, but in NYC there were few Reagan supporters in the gay community. The health crisis in the city was in full bloom by then, and most gay people were furious that the administration was failing to properly address it.
10
@Gary FS- so what you're saying is that all those people you found were male and white. Because that is what you found.
How unusual.
2
@patroklos You might want to take a look at some of the historic election results for Manhattan's 'gayborhoods' circa 1984 and then get back with me. Also, the AIDS epidemic was not in "full swing" in NYC in 1984. That wasn't until 1992. According to CDC, there were 19,541 PWA's in the northeast in 1987; 62,102 in 1992.
Once the novelty of any thing wears off it’s then just a thing like everything else. Leave pride to lions.
6
It isn't easy. The article paints problems, but offers no solutions.
it is also hard because there is a difference between gay sexuality and transgender identity. They are not the same.
Even the goals are not the same. As the article mentions the goal of most gays and lesbians is to live ordinary unremarkable lives. It seems as if the goal of the transgender movement is to remove gender entirely. Those two goals are not congruent.
A gay man loves what is male, a lesbian loves what is female. How does that work if gender is abolished? Not to mention the preferences of the cis hetero population?
So there's tension. Gays just want to assimilate. That's an easier process compared to trying to force the general culture to change on behalf of you. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but it does require a certain set of tactics to achieve, and they're not the same.
44
As always, race divides. It has divided the women's movement, it is dividing LGBTQ progress. It will stop only when marginalized communities decide that race isnt the privileged concern that takes precedence over everyone else.
15
@PL One can hardly give “precedence” to those who were not even a “priority” during the AIDS crisis. I worked for an AIDS organizations, and not one gave the remotest probing into LBGTQ minority cultures.
The concern is more one of mere ACKNOWLEDGMENT and EQUAL dignity than of “precedence.” What you suggest is yet more (unconscious) evidence of entitlement by the “majority” gays (White) that color itself be ignored, or more aptly put: suppressed.
ACT UP would never have come into existence using your put-upon thinking. EVERYONE should DEMAND equality. And EVERYONE should be HEARD.
2
"While the struggles for women’s rights and racial equality have never been regarded as nearing an endpoint, the campaign for gay freedoms has inched closer to a sense of victory and completion."
A pushback is already taking place with Trump's bans on Trans in the military and Pence's quiet war against all sorts of hard-won rights. Those who think the battle will ever be over are wrong.
10
There is disagreement within the movement?
Who gets to define the movement?
18
Of course, it wouldn't be Pride without historical revisionism, misandrist homophobia, and antiwhite racism.
(Yes, I see you, critical race theorists. Take your hands off the cancel button. As the proud descendent of refugees from Iran and Iraq, I can't be dismissed with the "wypipo" epithet.)
Regardless of race or class, all gay people want to live open, honest lives; we want to be seen as normal. Normalization is a slow cultural process. It can't be forced, but it can be encouraged. Politically, that means decriminalizing homosexuality and allowing gay men and lesbians to participate in the same institutions as their straight counterparts.
To that end, American gay rights leaders made gay sex (and by extension homosexuality itself) legal (Lawrence v. Texas, 2003), integrated the military (repeal of DADT, 2010), and validated the equal power and dignity of gay relationships (Obergefell v. Hodges, 2015). The effects of these victories will take time, but normalization can't be achieved without them.
Unfortunately, attitudes towards homosexuality vary among different demographics. Gay blacks, Latinos, Middle Easterners, white Evangelicals, etc. will face unique challenges as long as homophobia pervades their communities. Moreover, gay rights groups do not have the resources—or, more importantly, the mandate—to target efforts for broad structural reform. Lastly, gay rights are not transgender rights. Period.
52
The transgender issue should be kept separate from the gay, lesbian and bisexual issue. Gays, lesbians and bisexuals ask to be accepted for what they are while transgender persons asked to be accepted as what they are not.
ransgender women are men and transgender men or women. Other Americans should not be required to pretend they believe men have become women or women have become men. Humans are not among the species that can change sex after birth. If men could become women and women could become men, there would be no transgender issue, would there?
Transgender persons should be protected against discrimination in housing and employment, but when transgender rights are coupled with LGB rights, legislation fails, mostly due to the “bathroom issue.”
For example, Houston is a Democratic bastion with a openly lesbian mayor, but a Houston ordinance that would have protected LGBT persons from housing and employment discrimination was recalled because it would have given transgender persons access to restrooms, changing rooms and shower in accordance with their gender identity. Plano, Texas, is a North Dallas suburb that is staunchly Republican, but a Plano ordinance that prohibited house and employment discrimination against LGBT individuals was enacted because it exempted restrooms, changing rooms and shower rooms.
63
@William Case -- As Frank Bruni pointed out in one of his usual excellent articles (I believe it was titled, "Two Consonants Walk into a Bar"), the trans rights cause is very different from the gay rights movement, and the two made an alliance of convenience. The association is justified because of their shared status as sexual minorities, but the underlying issues are quite different. To the extent that they are associated in the public imagination, trans rights is holding back gay acceptance.
33
Transgender people have been part of the struggle for LGBT acceptance, including Stonewall, and you are advocating dropping the T because it's holding you back? For shame.
Trans rights are human rights.
4
@Kate Bishop
It is not holding me back at all. I am not guy, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. I simply pointed out that the transgender issue should be separated from gay, lesbian and bisexuals issue because it is a different issue.
One is a matter of sexual orientation, or behavior. The other involves gender identity.
When you combined the two groups, legislation that would provide them protection against discrimination false because most women don't want to compete against men in sports or share bathrooms, changing rooms and shower with men.
8
Women are still marginalized in the gay pride movement. Most of the publications, etc. are geared toward men. The marginalization women endure in the general culture is no different within the gay culture, and it may be worse.
18
Absolutely, the battle is not over. It has barely begun. Read this article.
3
I don't think trans people should be linked to gay liberation because they are not necessarily gay and it causes confusion.
If a heterosexual man becomes a woman and continues to have relations with women, is that a lesbian act?
Trans people should have their own movement.
37
@Ambrose -- Trans people have been a part of this movement since Stonewall, even if their presence was not always appreciated by the wider gay community. Who are you to tell them they are not or should not be a part of it?
What those of us who are LGBTQ have in common is that we are all a part of the broader category of sexual minorities, and the fact that, along with women in general, we all constitute an existential threat to the kind of toxic masculinity that has too often defined the existing white, male, heterosexual power structure.
3
@Mark Kessinger
"Toxic masculinity" seems to be some kind of category mistake because the two words and related concepts don't jive.
It's a miserable cliche.
1
Although there is now a Constitutional Right to same-sex marriage, which allowed me to marry my husband, the fact remains that 29 states - that's TWENTY-NINE - can still fire a person SIMPLY because of their sexual orientation. So please don't tell me that the battle is almost won or that me, a gay white male, has reaped most of the benefits of the changing times, not to mention the fact that gay white men have always borne the biggest proportion of hate crimes and discrimination over time (a distinction I would rather not have).
21
@ManhattanWilliam thats false re gay white men being the largest proportion of hate crime victims, that is a title most certainly held by trans women of color.
not that we should be focusing on the oppression olympics.
10
Why are gay white men fully represented in the elite professions, but gay black men are not? Or look at the gay bar scene. Why are just about all the owners and even the bartenders white? I don’t see a rainbow.
5
@ManhattanWilliam The same is true here in Australia with the religious organisations seeking to retain and even strengthen their exemption for anti discrimination laws enabling queer folk to be fired without question across this great country.
1
I think all camps can agree that the Tinder Slide prop a few days ago was an eye-roller, and that annoyingly popular Facebook lackey may celebrate our pride but they hurt privacy.
For corporations it may be a marketing oppo, but for non-corporations of all genders and orientations it's still a fight. I support them in that fight. Thanks as usual to the vile GOP and the loser for insisting on the wrong side of history.
2
June 29, 2019
Pride and power to live authentic and in sharing the maturity is a right to be celebrated and understood is awesome degrees of complexity for the matter of tolerances for social equality in the broadest terms that define ones national culture - as the journey in a living process and as such their are always challenges to settle with dignity and just plane human rights for all with respect to our living well entirely.
2
“And a few months before it opened, Mr. Jackson’s collaborator, also black and gay, died of AIDS. He had failed to get the treatments that surely would have saved him because he decided that God was rightfully punishing him.”
Anyone reading this article and believing like Mr Jackson’s collaborator that God is rightfully punishing you, please, please find an open and affirming clergy person (Episcopal, UCC, ELCA Lutheran) and they will assure you that God does not punish people through disease of any kind. You are made in God’s image and beloved by God. Take your meds, find clergy to talk with you, walk with you. We, the liberal clergy, are here for you, respectfully, willing to listen, willing to help. God loves you just as you are made.
51
One of the first things the LGBT President of the Ford Foundation did was kill the gay rights program. Is it any surprise the movement is splintered when even its own members betray it?
3
@Jane Dingman this is a very interesting comment. I had not heard of this. When did it happen? Would like to know more. Thank you.
1
Until1965, it was perfectly legal to discriminate against African Americans simply on the basis of their skin color, regardless of how talented, successful and otherwise normative they were. This was an anomaly in an avowed meritocracy. Thus, the Civil Rights Movement which fought discrimination on the basis of a status, i.e.skin color.
That cause became the paradigm for other status-based movements. In the case of blacks, economic discrimination was built into the status fact of skin color. Not so with women and gays. Those causes as well as the anti-war movement were overwhelmingly white & middle class. The unstated assumption was that the blacks had had their movement and now it was time for women and then gays to have theirs. This was nothing "revolutionary" It was simply the disaffections of an economically privileged group.
What got lost in the shuffle was economic discrimination and the status-fact of "poor." The ultimate result was the identity-politics of centrist democrats who want to do as little as possible to address the chasm of inequality that afflicts all. Getting behind these cheese and wine (& poppers) "liberation" movements was sweet gravy for the corporate class.
I don't minimize the impact of status-based discrimination. I favor their elimination. But it is regretful that they distracted from structural economics issues and that, as blacks, women and gays advanced up, the real income of the average American continues to decline.
13
@Chip So, you’ve just told us you do consider Black people, gay people, and women are not the “average American”. Only straight white men fit your definition. No need to correct. You’ve put your truth in print.
4
@Chip You have to remember that in 1965, almost 90% of the country was white. The meritocracy was amongst them. Blacks and others weren't even on the radar.
2
I wish the movement had stuck with Gay "Power" rather than "Pride." I am a gay man and have always found "Pride" celebrations fake and superficial. I'd rather be in the streets demonstrating for political rights and power--which would also foster pride.
112
@ronsnyc
It was originally Gay FREEDOM Day from what I knew living back East. Yes, Pride is important but without Freedom, not much is left. These are tenuous times, stay vigilant.
9
@ronsnyc
I've always thought Pride to be a clever mix of both.
For all its 'superficiality', the celebratory nature of Pride has got the movement a long way over the last 50 years.
30
All accurate and it’s about time. Every person with gender identity issues was once labeled under the “gay and lesbian” category. We have as much in common as people under the “straight” category. So now that at least some basic gains have been made it”s time for individuals and individual group concerns to begin to have their own particular needs addressed. Let’s go.
5
I am a straight white male, but I'll admit to having a gay thought at least twice a month- So as a member of the LGBTQ community - I am appalled! We can do better - we are better!
5
Anyone who thinks the movement for gay rights is even close to being done is either deluded, disingenuous, or has no clue what they are talking about. Marriage isn’t the end all be all of rights, not when it’s still legal in most states to be evicted from your apartment or fired from your jobs for being LGBT. Trans women of color are murdered at alarming rates and are the most vulnerable demographic in this country. Police violence against LGBT people is still appallingly common.
11
Most recent statistics indicate that
of every 100 people, 6 are LGBTQ.
That's 6%
And this does not count hermaphrodites
1
Gallup research indicates it is closer to 3 percent.
9
@New World - Most gays stay in the closet, especially the young. Go to any gay site and they identify as straight even on a gay site.
2
Gay movement has started in many places at a similar time frame. The Movement is in most countries - not all.
It's a small matter.
2
Couple of missing pieces in the puzzle.
"He mentioned Layleen Polanco, a transgender woman who had been arrested on misdemeanor assault charges in April and wound up on Rikers Island because she couldn’t afford the $500 bail."
What ever became of this case? And when you say "Assault," what exactly was she accused of doing? Here's how the law defines "misdemeanor assault:"
"The defendant did an act that by its nature would directly and probably result in the application of force to a person, that would likely cause great bodily injury. When the defendant acted, he/she was aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to realize that his/her act by its nature would directly and probably result in the application of force to someone. When the defendant acted, he/she had the present ability to apply force likely to cause harm to another person."
If Layleen was walking her dog, tra la la la, and was arrested, it's one thing. If she socked someone, well..that's a crime, and off you go to jail like anyone else (except if you're white and wealthy.)
(I'm sorry she died, though.)
Also -
"He read the names of black transgender women who had been killed around the country this year. " How many? 2? 200? 2000?
In 2016, for example, there were around 16,000 people murdered in the United States.
Is this something I, a straight man, should be jumping out of my chair over, to assist TG rights on my street, in my town, writing letters, organizing over?
How many?
11
@Zellickson
24 in 2018. Most were killed by a domestic partner or while engaged in the business of prostitution, which is the most dangerous occupation and the one where a person is most likely to be killed (51 times more likely to be killed than in the next most dangerous occupation, that of liquor store clerk). Most of the deceased were black males claiming to be women, many were involved with drugs. Almost none of the cases are attributable to being "hate crimes."
19
@Earthling thank you
@Zellickson Layleen Polanco refused to pay a taxi fare and proceeded to bite the driver on the face and was arrested for this assault. That was the assault for which he was jailed. Polanco was then involved in a fight in jail and that is why he was placed in solitary. He was found dead, and there was no immediately obvious cause, but he did have a seizure disorder. Perhaps the autopsy results have been released since I read up on the case. To my or anyone’s knowledge, there was nothing abusive going on with regard to his sexuality or expression.
14
The unfortunate lack of understanding by many gay people of the transgender community is, in part, based on the now discredited notion that gender is a choice or social construct - a notion espoused by Dr. John Money in the 1960's and embraced by many early feminists. The David Reimer case and subsequent research showed that gender identity is fixed permanently in utero and that the brains of transwomen and transmen correspond in structure to the gender with which they identify not the gender assigned based on genitalia. See, for example, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/transgender-brain-scans-promised-study-shows-structural-differences/
1
I’ve been reading The NewYork Times for over fifty years! Never, have I seen so many comprehensive articles about a significant sector of our society! Furthermore, if not for The New York Times, I never would have known, that there are so many homosexual, lesbian, transgender, and undecided people out there! And I for one, having been a Social Studies educator, probably should have been aware of that! This has been another reason why I subscribe to The New York Times! I learn something new everyday, thus expanding my knowledge!
25
Divisions endure between and within many groups: we are acutely aware of our own sufferings, not so much others'.
Add in racism and economic class issues, and it's a wonder that any coalitions can bridge these chasms.
Groups which have only recently claimed their place are are innately concerned with keeping that hard won progress. They may resent others whose new demands seem to endanger progress made. If survival seems to rest on securing society's tolerance, the stakes are huge.
In any political "movement" individual differences are necessarily glossed over, if not silenced, in order to increase the impact of the group at large. But differences will crop up.
The 70's Feminist Movement nearly foundered on incorporating the differences. Unity: women together would change the world! That clearly didn't happen: all feminists together! But some believed they were more feminist than others, and "trashing" sprang up when leaders emerged - because some believed that "leadership" itself was patriarchal. Energy was wasted on infighting to claim the higher ground - but it lead to growth as well.
No one in any group- political, labor, religious; male, female, LGBTQ, is on board with all group beliefs.
The exhilaration of finding others who share your experience is subject to a crash when you run into differences. We learn: it isn't necessary to be identical to have respect.
It's a maturing movement. Changes in law and attitudes are making a difference.
10
Of course there are disagreements. Put any "maligned" group into a umbrella organization and you will have pecking orders.
This happened with the ERA in the early 70's
13
I am proud to be able to say - that I ran the finest AIDS program of its' kind in the world, back in the day. I know this because I called the same type programs in NYC and San Francisco, they weren't doing what I was doing. This type program did not exist outside of the USA. I was in my early 40s'. Today, I am in 72. I am white, straight & female. To all African Americans who are LBGTQ: OMG there was no such thing in the Black community as an LBGTQ person. It was 100% not accepted in the Black community. I had out of approximately 500 clients, one black client. It broke my heart.
When I was 28 I needed to change out a ventilator in an ICU (respiratory therapist). The patient was transgender and had just had the desired and necessary surgery to become whom they were born to be. Not knowing what transgender mean't at the time, I thought it was really weird.
-
Today I fully understand what transgender means. Nothing weird about it. Actually, it terms of science it is easy to understand. If "everyone" had the basic understanding of what went on in the growth of a fetus to becoming transgender - I can't imagine anyone being discriminatory or hurting a transgender person. It is so very simple.
10
@LRS
How could it possible require surgery and then heavy dosses of drugs for the person "to become whom they were born to be"?
48
@LRS: humans are not among the species that can change genders after conception.
You mean " someone who attempts to dress and look like the opposite sex/gender, but requires surgery and physical mutilation and heavy lifetime dosing of drugs to even approximate such".
You cannot turn a zebra into a marmoset, but cutting up and rearranging the zebra.
6
@LRS
I disagree with you that there were no LGBT people in the black community and that they were 100% not accepted. Maybe you didn't have black clients because they felt uncomfortable around you or maybe their families were taking care of them.
Black LGBT people have always lived in and been a part of the black community. Also prior to the 1980s, white LGBT people commonly moved to and lived in black neighborhoods perhaps because they didn't feel comfortable being their true selves among other whites. They were just part of our neighborhoods like everyone else. I am always puzzled when I hear that blacks are totally homophobic when I know we have lived with LGBT people of all races, and they apparently felt comfortable living with non-LGBT black people.
1
This article kind of misses the point. LGBT people are humans who happen to be gay. Human nature is exactly the same no matter how you identify.
23
@George True. But human nature also includes dumping on people for how they identify.
5
“The broader gains are uneven.” That’s quite a phrase. I would appreciate knowing the ultimate goals of public policy of every group. Surely there are ultimate goals. What is considered just and fair in the Times can change in a nanosecond. What Obama stated as President would now make him a racist, homophobe and xenophobe regarding immigration and same sex marriage. I don’t want a country fighting forever about the rights of people with long hair, eye color, height, weight, educationally overqualified, country of origin, hair color, athletic ability or disability, state of birth etc, etc The list can be endless if permitted.
8
The victory is NOT won. In almost 30 states one can be evicted or fired simply for orientation. The number is even higher for transgendered folks.
11
Abortion should not be a political issue at all. Neither should LGBTQ rights. Politics should concern finance, taxes, economics, foreign policy, military policy and such matters. Not what goes on in bedroom and bathrooms, Thank You Very Much.
12
@n1789
Ya, how bout them bath houses?
No one is an island.
2
First, the Gay Rights Movement is about rights. And that reduces the spectrum of what is needed. Second, it was about mostly the needs of white men. Lesbians of any hue were never contemplated until we nursed our gay brothers, joined Act-up and took to the streets on the AIDS epidemic. LG folks of color were part of Act-UP at least in NYC. As for the Trans community, the "T" was added to the alphabet soup but not really addressed. The divisions are real, because the invisibility has been real. I suggest we get with a unified resistance, we stop pointing fingers at one another (fight our battles behind closed doors) and get into the streets, ballot boxes and volunteer to take our elders to the polls and the demos. We can fight, resist, celebrate and be prideful--and confront the internal problems which divide.
3
“The campaign for gay rights is inching closer to a sense of completion.” Hmmm. How did that work out for people of color?
4
@Fintan
There's a high level of homophobia in some african american communities. Mostly because of christian churches and mosques but secular african americans can be equally bigoted. Because education is underfunded in this communities, ignorance can be more wide spread. Each place has it's own fragil level of tolerance in it. each person has to decide wether or not they can live with it. As in the South and the Midwest where homophobia is stronger in white communities than in other parts of the country, all gay people, black or white, often find picking up and moving to the coasts there best option for a happy life. This leaves many gaps in knowledge behind in the communities abandoned, they remain homophobic because they've largely driven out their gay population so there's no one to set the record straight (so to speak). Summing up gay people of color are largely discriminated against like white gay people by the local communities they grow up in and suffer the additional disadvantage of being uprooted and disconnected from community support because they leave. White gays are by and large not the ones causing problems for gay people of color — not at all. It's the nation as a whole and it's ongoing problems with race within it's political institutions, the government and the police force that are doing that, and as with white gays their own families. Enlightenment is a long way off but it won't get here sooner by dividing the gay community by race.
15
Thanks for this article. It's a tough issue. I write film commentary & recently wrote about "A Night at Switch n' Play," an excellent documentary based on a live show in Brooklyn, where trans, non-binary & femme performers do drag & burlesque. That's the correct terminology.
But I got some push-back from the film's publicist when I dared even mention the words "men" & "women" in my article. I checked w/a gay friend who is arts editor of an LGBTQ newspaper. He laughed and said even he sometimes found himself on the wrong side of the "language police" & suggested that "toxic masculinity does not refer only to straight men." ha. I don't mean to belittle the issue & I *do* recognize the political significance of how we refer to minority groups. But there do seem to be some circular firing squads going on in the LGBTQ community. Although that's a LOT of letters, each w/different issues attached.
I wrote about that LGBTQ film in a "Freedom Films" article that also included 2 other docs -films whose hearts beat the drums of change w/ art & music as the catalyst; they show how freedom of expression = transformation. One other film was about jazz & the African-American struggle. The other about Woodstock & how hippie music was a force for change.
Bottom line: I learned people mostly want to read about THEIR issue. I had too many in one article & it didn't get the positive response it would have if I'd written 3 different articles. Pity. You can find me at my HelenHighly blog.
5
It is still very difficult for some straight people to completely accept non straights. Trans gender brings additional difficulties. The Bronx besides being the poorest borough has many people of all races who are conservative and fear of the “other” will exacerbate the homophobia.
We must accept and try to understand these issues so that homosexuality and transgenders can also be understood.
It will take much time and a ton of patience. Open and calm attitude on the part of families and neighbors, including teachers will begin to help the community to accept and tolerate without prejudice.
4
“Inching closer to a sense of completion?” Really? Perhaps if you are upper middle class and white and male, only a G in the LBGTQ spectrum, cocooned in an ultra-progressive bastion —and if you have been extremely lucky in the workforce. And young.
For anybody else, we are just beginning...
5
The criticism of Queer Eye, which I have never seen a full episode of, seems strange. Does every show have to be Pose instead. The movement is multifaceted, and the representation in TV and movies is now broad, often central, and is helping to shape the next to come along in term of acceptance and celebration. Why bother dissing one aspect that does reflect a certain segment of the community?
18
@Craig - As a gay man, when I turn on the television I see nothing but RuPaul and his/her queens and the Queer Eye guys. I have nothing in common with any of them. I would never hang out with them. But, I get lumped in with them.
6
@tom harrison -- If you want to understand why the struggles of gay men, lesbians and trans people are inextricably intertwined, all you need to do is to look at the things toxic masculinity is most threatened by.
1
No one should liquidate their 401k to start a community center then complain about income inequality.
6
But gender neutral bathrooms do help keep trans people safe in public.
3
What worries me is desire amongst many to separate the T from LGBT.
I fought for gay rights, my brother is gay. I worked for marriage equality and anti-discrimination and I stood up for gay people. Technically I am gay in the fact that my wife is also a transgender woman.
Now I need gay people to stand up for me. As a transgender woman I feel like I worked hard to help gay rights, but now that many gays have reached a certain level of equality it seems like they are ok with dumping transgender people from the movement and closing up shop. Just read the recent article in the Atlantic, the author directly states that transgender inequality shouldnt be a bother for gays who have already achieved equality.
We are a weak minority. Only a couple million people are transgender, while tens of millions of people are gay. We will get trampled upon and destroyed without help. We cant hide, and people like me have no closet. Everyone everyday knows I'm transgender.
Also I think it's a mistake to only focus on people of color being the last group that doesnt have equality, especially for transgender people. We are already a small minority, dividing us by race will just make us even smaller. I agree that transgender and gay people of color are the farthest away from true equality, but I think we should lift all boats until everyone in the LGBT movement has equality.
11
@Jacqueline - Part of the problem is that we gays don't get to vote. No one sent me a ballot asking me to include the L's, B's or the Q's. Queer is a pejorative that was hurled against me for the first five and a half decades of my life. Now, I'm supposed to cozy up to it because some millenial wants to watch Queer Eye? That to me is like a television program called N-word-Eye. I was recently talking to a gay friend and he asked the same question. What is queer and when was the national gay convention that added them to the "group"?
11
It’s true that trans people of color are being killed for being trans. However the number of documented murders of trans people pales in comparison to the number of young men of color killed every day. While one murder of a trans person of color is too many, the fact that the one makes national news, but the hundreds of young men of color killed every day does not says to me that the only Black lives that matter are those of gay and trans of color. Do straight Black lives matter?
6
A rising tide does not lift all boats.
2
I love their term “gaytriarchy”.
It says so much about the fact that white gay men, especially rich urban ones, dominated the gay rights movement in the 80’s and 90’s and ignored the needs of people of color and trans people.
They have abandoned everyone else since marriage passed. It’s a shame. I’m glad that trans folk are making progress (unevenly) but it’s no thanks to white men.
12
@Cousy "It says so much about the fact that white gay men, especially rich urban ones, dominated the gay rights movement in the 80’s and 90’s and ignored the needs of people of color and trans people. "
If by "dominated" you mean "primarily created" the gay rights movement from the Mattachine Society in the 50s on through all the orgs. to fight the AIDS crisis and government/corporate indifference, through to the endless lobbying, campaigning and political networking over decades to achieve the hard won victories.. GWM didn't just waltz in, they were the primary ones who made it happen, sorry.
I definitely don't want to neglect or ignore the many great , vital contributions by people of color, lesbians, trans people. But that's what you seem to be doing towards GWM. (Oh sorry, now I have to add "cis", otherwise I'm an oppressor.) Nowadays we're the bad guys. Yes, sorry we didn't solve the racial problems of the US while tens of thousands of us were dying of AIDS. How inconsiderate of us. And can we please get over the idea that gay white men who fought for these rights were all rich and affluent? No, no one I knew was when we were in Act UP and eating Ramen noodles because we were broke. The idea that all GWM are rich is a myth.
Yeah, history's being rewritten. Like a lot of GWM, I suffered alienation, bullying, abuse, tried to survive a plague and do my bit for the community. Now we're the bad-guy rich oppressors. Who did nothing. This is false.
4
Trans and gay are not the same thing. Fifty years ago, nobody had trans on their radar. Give the world more time to catch up.
13
@C - I have no idea why they are tied together.
7
Look at the divisions between Betty, Gloria, and Andrea in the early 70's
11
The fight within to not feel bad about yourself when the government, the churches, and other bullies are trying to turn you against yourself is only more impossible to win when you feel you need their respect and their approval. Carrots and sticks were the secret weapon of the slave master and slave owner. That's the internal domain. But, the Constitution documents that conflict very explicitly by listing the things that a government may not do to the people it doesn't like. It can't use laws to take away their rights and when it tries to, it's up to the governed to point that out through the Judiciary. Brown vs Board of Ed was about whether the government run public schools in a way that contradicts the 14th Amendment. There is no way we or anybody will ever have a government that doesn't slide toward corruption because that's fact about power. The point of all the civil rights victories was not that people "got" their rights but that the presumed right of the government to pick and choose who it wants to reward or deprive "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," of was neutralized and we have to keep a watchful eye because governments have to be restrained. That's why we have the Bill of Rights and other amendments that aim to restrain government from bullying us. We may be out of the woods, for a while, but not for long and certainly, not forever.
4
Sadly, much work is needed to combat homophobia and transphobia. The inconvenient truth is that these attitudes are more prevalent within lower income communities of color and immigrant communities. Showcasing and honoring the courage and spirit of individuals like Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera is an important step toward cultivating Pride within these communities.
More needs to be done, and it's sad to see that people like Ruben Diaz and Jumaane Williams, who have made hateful and disparaging remarks about the LGBT community are able to keep and advance their political careers. I hope that so-called Progressives will have the courage to confront this.
Finally, I couldn't agree more with Mr. Jackson's observation about the gaytriarchy. However, Shallowness isn't just a bar frequented by gay white men. Ever watch Drag Race?
13
@c Perhaps I'm not following, but I'm not sure how this "inconvenient truth"--as you phrase it--justifies ignoring racism in the LGBTQ community or the fact that White gay men have failed to fight for the rights of the trans* community?
Too, there are plenty of anti-queer politicians--of every race. Let's work on removing them all.
6
@Tim
How is the black community fighting for the rights of trans people ... I'm seeing confusion and attacks (never helpful)
1
Thank goodness someone else has Jumaane Williams pegged. His disdain for women and day people is very clear.
Here is my truth.
My brother struggled mightily to come out in his 20s. Two decades later, his nephew, my son came out without issue.
Here is hoping that two decades from now no one has to come out at all.
The rest is noise.
120
@Gwe
Thank you for sharing this. It’s my experience as well. The hysteria and outrage in the article does not cohere with reality.
13
@Gwe. "Noise" you say. Let me guess: You and your nephew are both white (and probably university-educated as well, and perhaps professional and/or well-off.
Women, people of color, and working class folks walk around with quite a lot less entitlement than many white males who remain clueless to their own privilege.
7
@Bald Eagle
So they can't come out ? What is stopping them ?
My husband is from a working class background -- never an issue. Less so than other communities. I'm actually around more black men and women than ever before? Gay women are on the same pathway as straight women.
People think that white men don't encounter problems -- we do and did. I had to pick my career based on my need to be "out" .. my schools ... where I lived. Everything had to be chosen .. and carefully. I'm not clueless ... I am grateful. My partner of 26 year an I have a life in this world never imagined .... glad it's much easier for kids today ... and it is.
7
"While the struggles for women’s rights and racial equality have never been regarded as nearing an endpoint, the campaign for gay freedoms has inched closer to a sense of victory and completion." Who thinks that "the campaign for gay freedoms has inched closer to a sense of victory and completion"? No one I know in Generation X. No one. Indeed, everyone that I know in my cohort is seeing quite obvious backsliding and resistance, including from Generation Y.
16
@Oltrarno
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
@Oltrarno
Some recent poll agree .. well what do you expect ? It's all a white male problem. Young men are being told they are "toxic" before they even know what's going on. An women -- they are getting it from all sides.
It seems like the underlying argument is why expanding LGBTQ rights hasn't also decreased racial and income inequality. My question is who thought that it would? Isn't that like thinking a flu vaccine is going to prevent a broken arm?
71
@And
Thank you! Criticism of the gay rights movement from the left focuses almost exclusively on issues that necessitate broad structural reform beyond the scope of gay people. (According to the most accurate studies, like the ones conducted by the NIH, the homosexual population is a mere 2%.)
9
A dose of sanity. Thanks.
2
As this article pointed as well one in the Atlantic. Except for a few small issues the battle has been won. Gay marriage is legal way of a presidential candidate where is sexual orientation has no bearing, Gays can serve in the military etc. The other Issues brought up here, poverty, discrimination, immigration etc Are completely independent of gay rights.
As to the transgenders. It’s not correct to say it’s a gay rights issue as the movement is deeply divided over this. To say that you disagree or have concerns does not make you a hater in spite of what some people want to say.
If if you want to make an impact then working on bringing gay rights to countries were in the store very dangerous to be Gay or lesbian.
18
Sorry, how can we say we are nearing the end of the gay rights struggle if you can be fired for being gay in 29 states? Or if you fear for your physical and emotional safety walking with your same sex husband down the street, hand in hand? Hardly a small issue.
8
@Rob L
The politics may have been almost won as you say (not), but life is far different; far more dangerous and rife with discrimination and hate. Still.
4
@Rob L You seem to be defying small issues as “things that don’t affect you personally.” When trans people are being straight-up murdered for being trans, that’s not a small detail.
1
Seems very similar to the women’s voting right odyssey. As soon as the rights of white women were achieved, it was all about celebration. Who cared about the voting rights of black women? Certainly not the the white women who had achieved their goals and in the ensuing decades voted more strongly conservative to deny black women their voting rights.
Seems like the Gay community has the same race issues as the rest of society.
12
This is not unique to the LGBTQ community, as the Women's March debacle of last year demonstrates.
The history of activist movements is rife with advocacy groups that begin well, organize effectively and then smash themselves on internecine conflict, forgetting the reasons they all got involved.
From the civil rights movement on down, people have lost their cause, delayed victory, made their road terribly more difficult by abandoning earlier priorities for ever more finely grained interests.
It is, of course, obvious, but advocates need to maintain their focus, overcome their own prejudices and, before anything else, win something.
Then figure it out from a position of increased power and with a history of success.
Book pending.
16
To better understand this rift, there's no way of getting around this country's long-standing history of racial inequality.
It never has been an equal playing field.
While white Suffragettes were marching for and eventually gaining the right to vote, their Black counterparts who were marching for basic human rights were essentially forgotten and thrown under the bus.
It's no different with the L.G.B.T.Q. community which has had a much slower progress in gaining recognition and continues to see an alarming upsurge in the number of deaths among trans-persons of color.
And for all the rainbow flags suddenly fluttering everywhere as a sign of mass-marketing success -- this parade still isn't for everyone.
19
@N. Smith
why are you taking on that campaign for women's right to vote? Black men got a vote long before white women, some suffragettes largely backed off for this to happen.
My take on this article is that black gay-lesbian-trans face a harder time is partly that there is more dislike of them in the black community than elsewhere (remember how in the CA same-sex marriage referendum the blacks voted more conservatively?) so they will have to work within their own community - I don't think whites can be of much help with that.
13
@N. Smith
Isn't the black community unfriendly to gays? This could be part of the problem.
12
@Barry Schiller
It's history. And like it or not, the backgrounds here are very similar inasmuch as there is still a stark contrast and divide between the civil rights of Blacks and whites in this country, whether straight or LGBTQ.
Some things don't change quickly-- that is, if they change at all.
2
Why Divisions Endure in Gay Rights
Because they are humans. Humans never get along.
66
I think you nailed it there. Humans are too complex, too selfish, too stupid, too reactionary, and just too human for anything to work. Just let things be. No parade needed. Just stay out of people’s bedrooms.
2
You can't rewrite history. Take a look at the pictures from the New York Public Library's online exhibit about 1969 and the subsequent Gay Liberation movement: http://web-static.nypl.org/exhibitions/1969/christopher.html,
And the names. Jim Fouratt (cis-gay white man). Craig Rodwell (cgwm). Lesbians? Too busy trying to remake the women's movement, Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P. Johnson? The cis-gay white men weren't paying attention to their issues so they formed their own group for to help their transgender sisters and brothers. The early "zaps" at Harpers? White men. The actions at the American Psychiatric Association? White men and a couple of heterosexual white women.
Yes, there's a disparity. But given what people were preoccupied with in the late 1960s and early 1970s, and given American racism and misogyny, what else possibly could have happened? Let's remember that the flashpoints of the 1970s were mostly directed toward white gay men as well -- Anita Bryant. Death to Disco (because who were the "beneficiaries"? Gay men and artists - both men and women - of color). Of course there should be a corrective, but the only thing that I think will work is a recasting of collective memory that's more exclusive. It's for the journalists and the historians who think and write about these issues to fix it.
24
Would it be helpful if a representative from this community were invited to the next round of debates for the Democratic Party presidential nomination?
8
@BD
You mean like Rachel Maddow or Anderson Cooper.
11
@Godzilla De Tukwila ... well, I was thinking of a low income person of color in order to offset the " rich white gay guy " stereotype.
1
GLBTQ POC are in the peculiar position of being welcomed more by white folks than by other POC.
26
@O'Brien I completely disagree. Speaking only for myself as a Black gay man, the amount of racism--casual, implicit, and overt--that I have experienced from White gay men in my lifetime trumps both the homophobia I've experienced amongst interactions with other African Americans, and the racism I've experienced from White heterosexual people.
Perhaps we are in the minority, but at least amongst my other Black queer friends this is also the case. This myth of the virulent violently homophobic POC (and Black in particular) community stands against the lived experiences of many.
More broadly, however, it is both striking and telling that POC intolerance is conveniently brought up whenever we have discussions on racism in the queer community, and amongst White gay men in particular.
5
@O'Brien
There was/is a reason for this. I learned at the height of the AIDS epidemic when I created/ran an AIDS program and saw approximately 500 clients - only one was black - it broke my heart. The reason for this; I learned, was that "homosexuality" did not exist in the black community. Yeah, right.
12
@Tim
Speaking for myself, as a Middle Eastern gay man, I think the idea that gay racism even remotely compares to homophobia in communities of color, especially the black community, is flat out absurd. Never in a million years would I would walk down the street of a black or Latino neighborhood holding hands with my boyfriend. (I don’t even broach the topic with my extended family.) The data backs me up: According to the FBI, most hate crimes against gay men are committed by men of color. By contrast, homosexuals are statistically more likely to be in interracial relationships and have children of a different race.
On hook-up apps, some gay men do list explicit racial preferences. However, it goes both ways: plenty of profiles advertise that white men “need not apply.” Whether it’s fair to qualify this as racism is open to debate. (I tend to think so, but I’ve heard men of all colors argue otherwise.) In this regard, the only difference between straight people and get people is their willingness to admit it on hook-up apps.
12
The struggle for gay rights may be "inching" to completion, but it still has a way to go. Sheriffs who call for death to gays, preachers who echo them may be the worst. But a recent poll I read about right here in the NY Times says that young people are increasingly uncomfortable with gays. When I say "gay," I mean LGBT. I am not a queer and hate that that word is being increasingly used instead of gay.
Total acceptance for gays may not be seen in my lifetime, but the fight does continue.
36
“When I say ‘gay,’ I mean LGBT”
It’s fine to call yourself gay. But saying that gay is a synonym for all LGBTQ people is erasure of everyone else’s identities.
I’m transgender, and if you calling me “gay” instead of transgender makes no sense because they just aren’t the same thing.
You say you don’t want to be lumped in under the Queer umbrella, you want people to recognize your specific identity (being gay). Maybe, just maybe, others feel the same way, and don’t appreciate “gay” being used as an umbrella term for “LGBT”.
If you want to discuss the homophobia targeted at gay people and the specific struggles that gay people face, then great! You’re talking about gay people and should use the word gay! But if you’re talking about the broader LGBTQ movement, you just can’t use gay as a substitute.
3
@Ken
I agree. When I was growing up if you were "queer," you were peculiar. I.e. queer was a synonym for peculiar.
8
@Ken queer is a reclaimed identity that you dont identify with, well i do.
We who are the LGBTQ community, are the ultimate cross-section of humankind, and as such, we are a concentration of all the beauty in this world, and all its failings.
LGB white people benefited the most since Stonewall, that's undeniable. They got there through the efforts of GB people of color, and mostly from LTQ people who were willing to risk more than their white counterparts. In many ways, that too, is a reflection of the greater world because most advances in human rights have been made by the most marginalized.
We have achieved much in 50 years. We still have very far to go. Children across this nation are still kicked out of their homes, beaten, abandoned by their parents. Worse is done to LGBTQ youth around the world. The closet is still alive and well, and in some ways, has become stronger.
I started out saying we are the ultimate cross-section of humankind. The problems facing humankind are concentrated within us, the LGBTQ community. As we work to address and solve these problems, the greater world can, and should, benefit, learning from us. We can do this. We've faced centuries of contempt, and in 50 years, we have accomplished more than was predicted in 1969.
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@Eric Kamm
Historical revisionism at its finest. I addressed some of these issues in other comments, but I suggest you and anyone operating under the same illusions/delusions read some actual history books and peer-reviewed studies.
Off the top of my head:
Flagrant Conduct: The Story of Lawrence v. Texas by Dale Carpenter.
And the Band Played On by Randy Shilts.
The Pink Triangle by Richard Plant.
The Celluloid Closet by Vito Russo.
The Lavender Scare by David Johnson.
Beyond Queer by Bruce Bawer.
Galileo’s Middle Finger by Alice Dreger.
Larry Kramer.
Simon LeVay.
Magnus Hirshfeld.
Kurt Freund.
That should be enough to deprogram any queer theorist...
16
@Eric Kamm You have posted one of the most offensive, false and racist post I've read about the LGBT rights movement. I have no idea where you found evidence to support your claim that "LGB white people benefited the most since Stonewall, that's undeniable. They got there through the efforts of GB people of color, and mostly from LTQ people who were willing to risk more than their white counterparts." Since you didn't bother to site a source to back up that statement, I will assume that it nothing more than an indication of you personal animus towards While, Hispanic and Asian members of the the LGBT community.
11
The premise of this article is absurd. Human Rights Campaign reports that 40 percent of homeless youth identify as LGBTQ. There are better areas and less open areas of the country to be sure but don’t confuse better than it used to be with full equality.
32
To clarify my own comment: I meant the idea the suggestion that the LGBTQ rights movement was nearing an end point was absurd given the glaring reality that that is clearly not true (if it were youth wouldn’t be homeless, schools wouldn’t ban Pride, etc).
19
@XX I don't think "has inched closer," which is what the article says, is the same as "nearing an end point," which is what you say.
4
@XX
The only thing absurd is that study. The historically ineffectual Human Right’s Campaign, like so many other organizations these days, is trafficking in shoddy statistics to gin up hysteria and gain support. Actually take a look at the methodology. Was their sample population nationally representative? How do they define “LGBTQ+”? Did they go to individual homeless shelters and interview the youth directly?
Advocates, especially today, must combat the flow of mis-/disinformation. We can never assume our “side” is immune.
5
Very thoughtful article. As a cis white gay man, I always wondered if or when there would be a reckoning between us and the rest of the LGBTQ community that haven't seen the same gains in acceptance and tolerance that we have experience. Sounds like there is about to be one.
12
@Jack Smith About to be? Where have you spent the last few decades?
1
@Jack Smith Instead if wondering, maybe you should be fighting for the rights of people who fought for yours.
1
@Jack Smith
Can one be "cis" and gay at the same time? I thought "cis" meant straight or heterosexual.