I thought Sen. Harris while born in Calf. But was educated and raised in Canada! While I hate to speak Ill of any leader of my sex. I was bothered by the theatrics and timing of her announcement of her “hurtful fillings.” By Biden. Harris is smart and by any measure and a professional success. Biden has been a champion of Civil Rights all his life. Isn’t it possible that Biden helped contribute to women like Harris have the pathway forward to seek their dreams?
9
When Biden was a junior Senator in rank and age, the Senate was an all-male, mostly white club with a goodly sprinkling of segregationists. When he was head of the Judiciary Committee during the Clarence Thomas hearing, his panel was all white male. These facts reflect a specific cultural, racial, and political basis for what Biden and others in the Senate said and did regarding the rights and freedoms of others, especially non-white Americans and women.
Biden seemed to be stuck in a time warp during the “debate” last night and Harris knew to attack him for his record and for his views. No amount of mealy-mouthed excuses could extricate him. He displayed a certain haughtiness that he has to lose if he is going to secure his party’s nomination. Better, he ought to retire while he’s ahead and leave the nomination to a younger person with more recent experience, ideas, and energy. Instead, he seems to feel the need, once more, to extol his virtues and record and, perhaps, save his party.
If he becomes the party’s nominee, Trump and his supporters will most surely have a field day dumping on him and running him ragged as he tries to defend his record. Trump hardly has a political record but his ethics, morality, character, and actions open him to attack – as they should. Frankly, Harris is better at attacking her political adversaries than Biden. She isn’t so interested in being “nice guy” in what promises to be a slug fest for the presidency in 2020.
3
In her closing remarks last night, Kamala Harris said, “This election is about you. This is about your hopes and your dreams and your fears and what wakes you up at 3 o'clock in the morning.”
That’s terrifying. I want absolutely none of that to be the concern of my politicians.
3
The elephant in the room is the fact that many men, and I dare say white men, see Kamala Harris as the “angry black woman.”
3
Kamala-the-former-Prosecutor-Harris, if you're offended by two words I said, maybe you're too hypersensitive to be in politics. Kamala didn't feel that way when she argued for jailing pot-smokers when she was District Atty of San Francisco.
Of course, Joe Biden, was tip-toeing so as not to offend the former prosecutor further. What a bunch of grand-standing hoo-ha!! If the Democrats are attacking each other for lack of political correctness, the party will lose to the Trump again.
As a voting Democrat, I am appalled we can't get past parsing words to guilt-trip. How about some toughness??!!
3
The fact that Biden was attacked by those wanting a more liberal agenda, may make him more popular with disenchanted Republicans, and less popular with Democrats wanting a change. It is hard to know if it is a good thing to attack someone's record when it is 20 or 30 years old. I would rather hear Biden's positions now, than what he did in the past. We all change.
At the same time, both Warren and Kamala Harris were both so passionate, and "take you down to the floor" type debaters, that it gives me more hope for America. You go ladies!! It seems it will take women to win over our current testosterone fueled political scene of "I'm the tough guy politics and I can tariff you out of existence", and restore our country to the place of humanity and care it once was. I was missing Biden's fire, but Warren and Harris could figuratively take Trump "down to the floor". "One, two, your down!" They represent the fire that is characteristic of all social movements that are successful--think Martin Luther King.... You go girls!! The boys dropped the ball and we need to get to the end line or we are destroyed.
8
@K.M
I think they delivered Trump a second term on a silver platter with all those far left promises and obsession with identity politics, and I’m liberal. But it was too much even for me. I like Biden, Kobuchar, Buttegeieg, and Delaney.
What Kamala Harris did to Biden is, to use Trump’s favorite adjective, disgraceful. She knew better. Her outrage was manufactured as pure political opportunism, as evidenced by the pre-made T-shirts. I had never liked her, and her performance only confirmed and intensified my dislike. I’m really disappointed in Biden’s performance. He was my hope that Trump could be defeated. Now, I doubt it. You may think she can crush Trump in the debates. Maybe she can, but her race card will not play well with independents and moderate voters in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Florida and Ohio, which we need for 270. I’m frankly so sick of the progressives always getting offended by something someone says or has said a million years ago which requires an apology.
If she wins the nomination, it will be pyrrhic victory because she will lose those states, and thus, the election.
7
I like the variety of options available to DEMS this is what Democracy looks like
Our system of governance is obsolete and needs an overhaul from our Constitution to the mechanics of voting
2
It was the shooting gallery I expected. Just like the last Presidential Election, all those with lessor numbers take shots at Trump, call him names, hoping to be selected as VP candidate. So, too, with the Democrats’ debate.
Give Mayor Pete credit for having the guts to admit his quandary at the police shooting in West Bend and the racial mix of his police dept. not reflecting that of South Bend. He's admittedly having problems with that and that makes him more human and real.
7
How is it possible that a man with such insensitive racial past as Biden was eight years the Vice President for the first black President and nobody noticed it?
13
Because Obama is technically half black and half white.
@areader,
True, President Obama would never have gotten elected without a white man, a long time senator on the ticket.
Black and despondent with the NEW far left Democratic Party.
1
@JRS: Far left? Hardly. Anybody talking about nationalizing, say, the petroleum industry? Sheesh. America has been so conservative for so that I despair of Americans understanding that Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were fiscally about where Nixon was.
2
Of the many ways in which Democrats could screw up their chance to take back the White House in next year's election, one of the surest is the identity card - we must have a younger candidate, a female candidate, a candidate of color, a candidate who is pure on X issue, etc. Forget that, and let "passing the torch" go until '24. Right now the job is to keep the torch burning.
5
Well, old and white then? The best one should be chosen, regardless of her/his identity.
Joe Biden was not convincing at all. Some of the commentators thought the attack of KH went too far or was spacious but the relevant thing is that he did not know how to swim after her attack. He is just a stream liner without individual aura. He will never make it.
2
VP Biden was unprepared to questions and issues everybody knew would come up. You can’t run on nostalgia. Even if he is running as one-term transition President, he has to be in the now and beyond. No WS money, for starters
4
Biden is a fossil clearly he is not nor able to navigate the post Trump Era debris and colossal shortcomings.
Biden continues to be soaked in racial ineptitude and the absence of the ability to comprehend the profound nature of Race in America.
Biden has no agency nor currency in Black America that warrants our support. Voters are paying attention to his defects.
6
I think Kamala Harris has some baggage with her strict criminal justice policies as Attorney General of California. Has that been addressed in a national debate?
6
Remember the Broadway show 'Annie'? I'm updating the lyrics to one of the songs you probably know....
Will you be the one, Kamala
Leading us to victory, come next year?
With you at the top, Kamala
Don't think we should be concerned
That is clear
I like the way you challenged Biden
Notice he showed a little fear?
Where is he today? He's probably hidin'
And shedding lots and lots of tears?
Kamala, Kamala, I love you, Kamala
You might be our candidate
Kamala, I will scream and holla
I think you are really great
Kamala, if you weren't married
I'd ask you out on a date!
1
“It was Ms. Harris, however, who did the most to elevate her candidacy: At one point she was the top trending topic on Google in the country.”
It saddens me that the NYT thinks Harris’s candidacy was “elevated” because she was trending on google. It simply encourages people to be outrageous and, frankly, obnoxious.
9
Q: If elected President, what is the first thing you will do on 21st January, 2021
Biden: Defeat Trump
Ummmmm ok
5
Why does the stage look like a game show in Las Vegas?
7
Because that's the American way; all show.
3
@Bitter Mouse — Because that’s what it was. What passes as “debate” is flash, show, and very little substance — for entertainment purposes only. Our futures depend on these people — unbelievable.
There was no good reason to have this spectacle. Of course they’re going to make wild promises and outrageous claims — it is all jockeying for position right now and it would not do for any one candidate to look like a sober outlier.
I’ve just about had it with all of them, and primary season is still six months out.
Maybe next time this could just be a Pay Per View event, hosted by Jerry Springer or Maury Povich, which would free up the TV for the other competitive reality shows like “America’s Got Talent” or “Survivor.” And I wonder: Would we be able to tell the difference?
Such is politics in America.
2
Harris just shredded the Democrats best hope against Trump. She may have seized the news cycle, but she did our party no favors. Trump can just pick over what scraps are left of Biden.
10
Passionate, but civil. Emotional, but with real plans. Working class origins, but doesn't make it personal.
Last night winner: Elizabeth Warren.
10
@EM
She’s impressive, for sure.
But even more important to me: no matter who the Dem nominee is, that nominee gets my vote. If it’s not my favorite, I won’t stay home or sulk or vote third party. It’s far too important, especially this time.
6
@Franco51
Agree, totally.
And if Warren does not get the nomination, there is no question in my mind she'll support most strongly the nominee. I wish I could believe this about all the other candidates, starting with Sanders.
4
Every job that I have ever had or have ever seen has had at least basic job requirements or skills, education requirements, or experience commemorate with the position.
--So, there you are about to get a heart transplant and you find out this was their only needed qualification to do the job. You're about to climb onto a plane and you find out the aircraft engineers, the pilot and the aircraft technicians only had to meet these qualifications. Decision to kill millions with a war or nuclear bomb.
Yet, this was the only qualification required for Trump to become president.
--Qualifications for the Office of President Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
--No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.
--Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 - ratified February 27, 1951 No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
2
Scarborough apologizes for 'disaster' of 2020 Democratic debate on MSNBC
"With apologies to our friends and watching, last night was a disaster for the Democratic Party," Scarborough said Friday on "Morning Joe." "My only hope is people were not watching"
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/450841-scarborough-apologizes-for-disaster-after-2020-democratic
4
Between Night 1 and Night 2, democrats have handed Trump a second term.
3
@dba
Waaaaay too early to say that. In 2016 everyone said the same with the big unruly GOP debates.
4
@dba, thankfully it ain't over yet! The Democrats need to realize they have one goal - and that is that a Democrat wins and Trump is out. Regroup time!
1
A district attorney going after a person who has been reelected year after year? Her attack on Mr. Biden was, in my opinion, rehearsed and uncalled for The picture of her as a young child was not a coincidence. Leave the "circular firing squad." Instead, if you are honored to represent the Democratic Party against trump then attack him.
14
@KLM
She played the “poor me” card very well. She also comes not from some disadvantaged background as she seemed to want us to believe, but from privilege.
8
No one is arguing that Biden shouldn't have worked with the segregationists in order to get bills passed, back in the day. But on the specific topic of school busing, Biden decided last night to directly channel the segregationist argument. It's less surreal than it is a confirmation of what we should have known about him all along, but I was still struck watching that whole thing unfold. A Democratic candidate argued "state's rights" on the topic of school busing--to a black woman, no less. He can't be our nominee.
8
Last night Joe Biden reminded me of Uncle Billy from the movie "It's a Wonderful Life", a sweet lovable old guy but one who ultimately couldn't be trusted with the bank deposit. His shocking lack of preparation for the debate left him fumbling and bumbling and calling "time's up".
Biden has dedicated his life to public service for parts of five decades. In his heyday compromise was the name of the game. Both sides gave up something to get something. This resulted in legislation which in hindsight appears flawed. By touting his ability to work on legislation with anyone, even segregationists, Biden inadvertently admits that he doesn't get today's politics: in the age of Trump and Mitch McConnell compromise is not acceptable. It's all about winning.
The survival of our democracy depends on democrats not blowing this election. In future debates candidates need to walk back some of the lunacy espoused last night--like free health care for, and the non-prosecution of, illegals. Really? Part of the blame has to go to the debate moderators who asked such loaded questions.
I think the goal of universal health care coverage is noble but the practical way to get there is to support "health care coverage for all" to include a strengthened ACA with a public option and private insurance, not "Medicare for all" which could alienate 180 million Americans who have private insurance and fits perfectly into Trump's playbook that "all democrats are socialists."
8
@Monta1052 " In [Biden's] heyday compromise was the name of the game. Both sides gave up something to get something. This resulted in legislation which in hindsight appears flawed."
Unlike, e.g., Obamacare, enacted exclusively by one side, which in hindsight appears brilliant and flawless. Really?
2
Dear critics of Joe Biden,
I plan to vote for someone other than Mr. Biden in the Democratic primary next year. But think of this strategically.
1. Mr. Biden frightens Mr. Trump, and is the focus of all his ire.
2. If Mr. Biden can survive this and become the Democratic nominee, then he has weakened Mr. Trump.
3. If another Democrat becomes the nominee, then she or he is stronger, having had Mr. Biden to distract his attacks during the primary season. Mr. Trump is weakened.
I see nothing but good coming from Mr. Biden being the current Democratic front runner. And I thank him for running for president.
I will vote my conscience in the primary, and vote for the Democratic nominee in Nov 2020.
10
My first thought at the end of night 2 is that even though I thought some were stronger prospects than others, ANY ONE OF THESE HOPEFULS IS BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE NOW!
I would love to see a candidate who is thoughtful and reflective enough to synthesize the best of what we heard and make it her or his own overarching vision...and maybe even credit the mind that contributed it. Weighing and sifting. I wished last night that someone would say "If I am elected President I will take all the talent on this stage to create a powerhouse cabinet to serve the American people whom they so obviously care about. A good President surrounds himself or herself with great minds." That's true leadership.
The part I hate about the campaigning is the undisciplined urge to make oneself more important by making everyone else less so. I will vote for someone who hasn't taken lessons from Donald Trump.
24
My sentiments exactly!
9
Senator Harris,
Don’t tell us how much you hate how Joe Biden worked with during the integration movement. Tell us how you would have assessed the situation and how you would have a built a coalition to achieve the goals you think the government should have achieved.
Would you have sat on your hands in a fit of moralistic pique in order not to work with senators you felt were below your standards? Would that have helped the country or the minority kids that you appear to be advocating for?
Just throwing self righteous grenades at people who tried to achieve good things through mixed means in a troubled time is really immature if you can’t articulate an alternative that would have had any chance of success.
It was a low move that diminished Harris much more than Biden.
279
@JSD
Yes. Harris was WAY out of line. Good grief. Unprofessional. This is exactly the sort of thing that will cook the Dems goose. I had been watching Harris as a possible choice but no longer. The winner last night was the Trump campaign. Sad.
82
No one mentioned that in 2006 Senator Biden co-sponsored the Voting Rights Bill (VRA) and has long-supported its provisions. In 1982, he played a key role in attaining a compromise that extended the original VRA of 1965 by working closely with Senator Dole to craft language that gave the bill the bipartisan support necessary to break the impasse with conservative forces in the Senate and the White House.@JSD
18
@JSD
I'm sorry, what? You think that she doesn't have a right to get angry about a fellow candidate not apologizing for a position that would literally have prevented her from going to school? What??? The people in these comments attacking Harris are crazy. Joe Biden absolutely had it coming. The ideas that people should just let him be, and that having passionate conversations about issues helps Trump, is flat out wrong. We have primaries so that we can have these kinds of conversations. If you don't like it, grow up.
14
I understand why people think Joe Biden has the best chance at beating Donald Trump. His mid western route allows him to “speak the same language” as the people from those swing states, and his association with the beloved Barack Obama endears him to the centrist Democrat.
But Biden isn’t the only candidate who can speak to swing state voters. Don’t sleep on Mike Bennett and Amy Klobuchar. To be sure, Trump will call Biden old and tired and every name he can think of, and the president is good at nicknames. And if Biden prepares against Trump the way he prepared against Harris, he’s finished.
My guess is the Democrats will be competitive in the general and the primary will pull a pragmatic centrist a little to the left (in order to win the primary) but he / she will pivot back to the center for the general.
So, no, the Democratic nominee will not support people who come across the border illegally, that’s political suicide, and they will not support Medicare for all; they just need to say yes to those things to win the primary. All politicians do it and it’s not flip-flopping. It’s just called pivoting.
So I would not put dirt on the Democrats’ grave just yet. They are still going up against a president with a 40 percent approval rating.
15
@Oliver Agree!! Klobuchar is getting buried. Bennett and also Hickenlooper. It's infuriating.
1
@Oliver "mid western route (sic)"? He was born in PA, went to a private boy's prep school in Delaware, went to undergrad at the U of Delaware, and got his law degree at Syracuse. He's about as East Coast as a person can possibly be!
2
Seriously America? Look what good old American mysoginy got us: the most repugnant administration ever but we are still at it by attacking Harris and Warren. I guess each people do really have exactly the government they deserve.
4
Let's see: Reparations, Medicare for all which would cover undocumented immigrants, open borders, free college, student loan forgiveness and on and on......
I can't wait to sign up for this and increase my tax liability by 2x or 3x. Wohooooooo!! All in the name of progress!!!
8
New slogan for Republican ads: "Vote Democrat if you want to be a taxpaying slave for the welfare of global non-citizens."
7
So what does it matter if the liberal media thinks Biden is done. Their idea, and not a majority opinion. Kamala Harris will be grilled the same way soon for some of her ideas. What goes around comes around. This country is not over it’s racist past just yet, but let us remember that getting trump out of the White House into the Outhouse will take more than squabbling about busing, and guys working with racists a generation ago.When was busing ever popular with anyone from any race? Be careful young people, what you protest now will come back to haunt you a few years down the line. Nobody is perfect, and Joe has my vote. Just don’t forget who is in the WH now.
Ramesh
9
I love Harris,but she like Hilary appears to be out of touch with the working class. Warren on the other hand appears to have centered her life and talent around representing the working class voters of this country.
7
Dear NYT:
As a child, Harris claims she benefited from federal busing programs that Biden fought against.
Not true. In fact, Berkeley's busing was entirely voluntary, and was not court ordered. Harris, who lived in nearby Oakland, used a relative's address to attend Berkeley schools.
Similarly, Harris' characterization of Biden as a busing opponent is so simplistic as to be false; after the debate, Biden stated that he did of course strongly support court-ordered busing to remedy racial discrimination (de jure discrimination), but did not support busing that was not part of a court-mandated plan, mainly because it is so disruptive, and results in a white backlash (and a flight to private schools) that causes more harm than good.
Sen. Harris has demonstrated a willingness to use smears to destroy her opponents. This ruthlessness is being widely applauded.
Maybe this needs a bit more reporting?
18
What is Kamila Harris going to do for me? Criticize every little comment that someone else said that may have been perceived to be slightly incorrect that may or may not have offended a Native American, African American, LGBT American, woman, etc?
And how exactly does that help me again?
14
I remember bussing (not the kissing kind) in Los Angeles in the 1970s when I was a kid of bussing age. The debate wasn’t about race — rather, it was why should our kids be taken from our neighborhood and local school a few blocks away and ride a bus two hours a day? That’s why private schooling developed into a big suburban phenomenon. No one minded that black kids were bussed to our otherwise generally white school but no one wanted to be bussed to their neighborhood. So that’s what ended up happening in the 1970s.
8
A democratic candidate debate is about as real as a debate in congress. Everybody on that stage favors gun control, equal pay, expanding voting rights, health care for everybody, getting money out of politics, raising the minimum wage, DACA, immigration reform, middle class tax reform, restoring America’s alliances, and getting rid of Trump. This is something for a cable news outlet to stage to keep from having to put on 25 Trump stories. I really don’t care who wins as long as it isn’t Trump!
3
The 2009 health care debate was hurt by the death of Ted Kennedy. The ACA though was made as strong as it could be during Obama's tenure. Obviously the Democrats would like to expand coverage and services. Certainly taxes will have to go up. The Democrats hope the yawning wealth gap in the country can be utilized to help pay for their program. Trying to reach the general electorate while trying to win the nomination is dicey. Biden was attacked for his claim that he could work with the GOP and Dixiecrats on important issues. Trump will use every wedge issue he can find. He will lie and manipulate voter ignorance on issues like climate change and immigration. Partisanship is very strong and damaging as the election 2016 showed with the Democrats winning the popular vote and losing the determining electoral college. Trump is a polarizing aggressive figure. How to combine an anti Trump campaign and maintain their composure will be challenging.
2
The problem with the school busing argument is that schools in minority districts tend to be grossly underfunded, especially in big cities.
In rural areas busing is done because people live in remote areas. Poor preforming schools are still a major problem.
Good schools are worth fighting for; I grew up in the south when black kids could not attend the well funded white schools. But what we did have were responsible black folks and sympathetic white folks ( my white grandfather) folks who fought for decent schools for me and other black kids. Parents need to fight for good schools even today, don’t give up to blight and despair.
Neighborhoods and communities matter.
Fix the schools and fix the neighborhoods.
4
Vice-president Biden is clearly no hothouse flower who will wilt under challenge. He's survived heart-breaking personal tragedy; he's survived devastating political setbacks.
But he is not a man for this time and for the national and global needs of the 2020 election and beyond.
Harris was correct. She spoke from today about yesterday's policies. They are incongruent.
Biden hasn't changed that much. And the voices that are necessary for today's problems are very different from his same old song.
6
I watched the debates on both evenings, and I have to say, last night's was the better of the two. With that said, I don't know what the media is talking about here with Harris being the victor in her exchange with Biden, who tried to explain that the claim she was making was a distortion. I believe him. He is seasoned and experienced, and I thought he was sharp and flexible, unlike the projections here about him being this "old white dude". But the media is so quick to clip these moments & make them out to be something they aren't. It was a cheap shot on Harris' part. A little "gotcha" moment. Biden knows this well and he responded quite adequately.
On another point, Biden tried to explain that Trump pulled the plug on an agreement that Obama set in place to prevent this crises at the border we're now seeing. Biden, though not exactly in his prime, is seasoned. He knows the game. He worked with Old South racist senators and Harris and Booker jump on the opportunity to distort to their advantage. Those aren't leaders to me.
Buttigieg is elegant and richly intelligent, he has a future to be sure, but Biden and actually, dark horse, Jay Inslee, (two-term governor of Washington state & ten years younger than Biden) know the game of getting things done. That's what's needed in 2020.
34
Biden is taking a pragmatic approach, noting that the American people need their representatives to be able to work together to reach compromises -- compromises that never truly satisfy anyone but also give everyone something of what they want. And that's probably true, and all fine and dandy, but he is a straight white male elder who has been largely successful in mainstream politics all his life so that's EASY for him to say. It would be lot more convincing if a statement like this came from Cory Booker or Kirsten Gillibrand or Kamala Harris or Julian Castro, people who have experienced discrimination and have struggled and succeeded in a system that tried its best to hold them back. And it IS time for a younger generation to take the reins, since they are inheriting the world people of my generation (born during WWII) made our own mess of. That means you, too, Bernie!
1
Dear Democrats,
The defining issue of the day is income and wealth inequality. Nearly every other issue can be reduced to fallout from this problem.
Some candidates (Warren, Sanders, Yang, and others) correctly identify the problem. Some of them have partial solutions.
Democrats look to the future, and not the past. Democrats stand for equal opportunity for all. Democrats stand for removing barriers to achieving the American Dream. Democrats stand for investing in America's future, through investments in education, infrastructure, advanced research, and public health.
The answer is not to stroke a check to every American. The answer is to provide a platform upon which all of us, individually and collectively, have the chance to succeed.
9
If Harris attacks Joe, she is nothing to me.
If Castro attacks Beto, he is nothing to me.
If any fellow Democrat says things that will dampen support for the eventual Democrat nominee, you're nothing to me.
Did Harris call out Joe on school bussing?
Does that mean she and the Black community want school bussing?
4
My wife and I watched the first hour, looking for something, anything, that would cause us to want to vote D in 2020. There was nothing compelling enough to keep us from holding our noses and voting for Trump. The economy is still doing well under 'warts and all' Trump.
Here's a question no one on the left (including the NYT) would ever dare ask:
"Sen. Harris, the governor of your state, California recently declared a budget surplus. The Democrats have had absolute control over California for over 25 years. According to a recent article in the Sacramento Bee, CA has an unfunded pension liability of between 1.6 and 6 trillion dollars - 7 to 37 times the total annual revenues of the state - and somehow also declares a surplus. Is this the economic genius the Democrats will bring to the rest of the nation?"
20
@Cliff
You do realize that Trump has had little to nothing to do with how the economy is doing, and that he is living off the same economy Obama had, right? Or is there really that little of hope for humanity?
16
@Cliff
So the fact that the President is probably a traitor in Putin's pocket, is semi-literate openly Racist, likely a serial rapist, unbelievably corrupt , totally immoral serial liar, is ok by you if the economy does well?
You would support this sociopathic, known swindler in his business practices, whose sanity is literally in doubt, loves dictators, and has stated that he welcomes help from foreign governments to stay in power, merely because the economy is (through no real action on his part) still doing well?
Those are some MIGHTY big warts to be overlooked, My Friend.
A wise man once said that a person who gained the world but lost their soul had nothing. Apparently some folks are willing to part with theirs for far less.
9
Media prognosticators are touting Kamala Harris' aggression in the debates as being a winner. Not by my standards. Too Trumpy.
She's no doubt a good prosecutor, but as a President? Some people have given her marks for her prosecutorial questioning of Sessions and Kavanaugh. I personally have little tolerance for either of these men, but I still didn't admire Harris' tactics.
At this point I'm still voting for Buttigieg - his intelligently thought out answers, his calmness, his honesty and integrity, all are apparent and the kind of President I want.
8
It is a great disappointment that climate change was given such little attention and merely glossed over by the moderators and candidates.
This was also the case in 2016 and that lack of debate time drew much criticism.
Climate change is the most important issue we face and that it is so disregarded is alarming and more than distressing.
Will the subject be raised in future debates or is this to be another instance of head in the sand while the world suffers?
4
I kinda worried about the fate of the Democratic Primary. I wish some of these candidates would spend more time laying out their plans of what they want to do along with its justification and expected results rather than attacking each other.
As much as I hate to say this, given the conditions on the current state of the economy, it is kinda leaning towards Trump re-election even though most of us know that it is the rich people that are heavily skewing those numbers. Over the past two-three years, I have seen a heavy turnover of small business in my community because they can't compete with these big corporations.
3
When you are in the middle of a political fight, such as desegregation, you have to work with others or go to Civil War. One of the greatest civil rights leaders I have known was my old Yale Law professor, Burke Marshall, who led the DOJ civil rights division during the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. He taught us that the way to achieve progress, through the legal system, involves a lot of strategy and working with your ideological enemies in order to achieve a positive result without bloodshed. It is easy for Kamala Harris to trick people who weren’t there when it happened into forgetting how it happened.
9
Last night, Biden defended the right of states to segregate, over the equal rights of all citizens.
The important thing about what happened last night is not that Harris attacked Biden on busing. Biden could have easily said that busing was a bad policy that was not going to do what it was intended to do.
Instead, Biden decided to invoke State Rights over Constitutional Civil Rights, specifically saying the Department of Education should not have been involved in this important Civil Rights battle.
The mechanism that was used to advance Civil Rights law in the 1960s and 70s was using the Federal Government to enforce equal rights under the law for all citizens, even in the states that opposed that.
Last night, Biden positioned himself as FOR the right of states to segregate races, AGAINST the Nation's right to protect the rights of all citizens.
I don't know if Biden thinks he is going to get racists to vote for Democrats again, but he just blew it with the base of his own party.
Young people who were not raised on Fox are against racism, and aware of the history of states rights versus Civil Rights. The future of the Party is against Biden's fond remembrance of segregationists.
If this was not evidence that Biden sympathized with segregationists more than he lets on, then it is evidence that Biden is too lost in the past to make a politically intelligent defense of his past policies.
Biden is unelectable because he will not be able to get the young to vote for him.
3
I must have been watching a different debate than everyone else. In the debate I watched, Buttigieg--with his demeanor, his thoughful answers, his command of the issues, and his honesty--wiped the floor with the rest of them. Harris? Scripted, kind of nasty, and smirking--no, thanks.
What's sad to me is how quickly the media grasps a "theme" ("Harris won!") and runs with it, rather than offering independent commentary.
9
I was really turned off by Kamala Harris raising a busing issue from the 70’s. Integrating schools is tough and we are still struggling with the issue even in a liberal city like New York (see debate on admission to elite high schools). It’s not as simple as she makes it out to be. Frankly, I’de be upset if I bought a house in a neighborhood with a good school and then the government told me my 8 year old was going to be sent to another school and had to deal with a 45 minutes bus ride. It’s hard enough getting a kid to wake up in the morning. I want someone who is sophisticated enough to understand that these are tough issues not someone who always takes the easy, idealistic position.
13
A Bernie supporter, I fear he mad a mistake nailing his flag to the mast on Medicare for All. Yes, that's the long-run goal, but getting there will take time. The weeds have grown up very thick in this garden and must slowly be cleared.
1
Mr. Biden's day has come and gone. He is a good man but reliving the Obama years will not move the party or our country forward. I think Trump would like to have Bernie or Biden as his opponent--both old white men like him. If Biden truly was the best choice then so be it. However the debates demonstrated there are other skilled politicians out there. Politicians who are young, bright and commutted--a stark contrast to Trump. Sorry Joe but you looked tired and confused. Bernie looked and sounded crabby.
4
The big news here is actually how biased the debate was, the majority of the questions went to two or three candidates. Andrew Yang only received two questions during the whole debate, one of which, bizarrely, was about his view on China. Why? Because he is Asian? Not only that, it seems that his mic wasn’t working for part of the debate. I’m starting to agree with Trump, the mainstream media really is fake news.
8
As a conservative, I was interested in the debates to understand what potential candidates and potential presidents have to offer should President Trump not win reelection. I am shocked at how far left these candidates are running. Where are the Jim Webbs of this party? Where are the moderate common sense Democrats?
- Health Care for Illegals, really? Why would anyone want to pay for that when we can't even pay for our own?
- Decriminalizing illegal immigration, that will only make more come?
- Full Term Abortions, come on! Hot button topic I know but, we all know that is just plain wrong
- Taking away private health care, most were for this and replacing it with Govt run. I don't know about you but, I want a choice at a minimum
- Some attacked that the economy is bad right now, yeah I think that is a losing argument right there, can it get better yeah but, its working pretty well now.
People these folks are going to drive your party into obscurity. I long for the days of Jim Webb, Tom Dashale, etc.
I put good money on this, unless there is a more "sane" Democrat Trump wins hands down and many of you know it. The middle of the country is not voting for these folks, the only one that looked like someone who had a normal brain was John Delany. The pandering to the Latino's and LBGTQ community is just sickening, your leaving out the majority of America by doing this. Just crazy I tell ya.
30
@Chris
Fortunately many people in the US are starting to realize that, in fact, none of Democratic ideas are radical. Instead they have been fairly mainstream in modern capitalism post WW2. The sad truth is that the US has a completely dominated working class, with many, like you, who have absolutely no idea how far to the right this country has moved since the mid 70s.
10
@Chris YES You were not the only one thinking the same. There’s NO WAY I’d vote for any of those candidates. Utter radical nonsense that middle America when push comes to shove Will not fall for. has it been perfect under Trump? no of course not, far from it, but neither has the sky fallen. Based on what I’ve seen and heard so far, Trump is winning 2020 hands down at this point.
5
@Chris
I agree with you, and I’m liberal. However, conservatives have just as insanely allowed the alt right hijack their party.
I know I’m being taken granted by the Democrats but will not be taken for a fool by the Republicans.
11
Unfortunately, Mr. Biden appears to be the only adult in the group.
2
By saying, "that little girl was me" isn't Kamala Harris indicating she was personally a victim of some historical injustice? She came from (and remains in) a privileged environnent. Like any responsible jury member, I'd like to see some evidence that she really was "that little girl". (And not just that she participated in busing, one direction or the other.)
4
It's a disgrace that Booker and Harris chose to run against fellow Democrats, and very telling that they both played the race card as a reflex. It shows they lack ideas and Harris is nothing if not corporate. But there are 17 months to go so Biden's current lead doesn't mean much. Biden may be a bit too stale-center for me but to jump on the passions of some phony segregationist story shows how low they are willing to go. In light of how low Trump has already dragged us it's a disgrace.
5
Was it a death knell for Biden? No, but it sure did open up the race quite a bit. Still, I don't see anyone but Biden beating Trump next year. I think there are enough moderate Republicans (yes, they DO exist) who would vote for Biden. Enough for him to win. I don't see them doing that for any other candidate, especially Sanders.
6
By the way: so we can agree how that there is such a thing as "too old"? And those of you complaining about Harrris being "too mean to Biden" , Seriously? Have you met Trump?
Dear Democrats,
1. We own the issue of healthcare. That issue helped propel the blue wave of 2018. Any one of the 20 debate candidates has a better healthcare plan than Mr. Trump and the Republicans.
2. Mr. Trump owns the immigration issue. Democrats are right about the inhumane treatment of children. Democrats are right about DACA. Democrats are right about Mr. Trump's hateful language toward foreigners. Democrats are right that a 2000-mile border wall would be stupid and ineffective. Democrats should be pushing mandatory e-Verify enforcement.
But we have to take the position that we must enforce our existing immigration laws and enforce our borders.
If Democratic candidates take the position of not deporting illegal immigrants (except for convicted criminals), and making it a civil offense, then Mr. Trump and the Republicans will win the "open borders" war of rhetoric.
We can't correctly criticize Mr. Trump for flaunting the Rule of Law on the one hand, and then abandon the Rule of Law regarding immigration on the other hand. That is hypocrisy, and it could cost us the election.
We need to neutralize the immigration issue now. Or it will come back to haunt us in 2020, and give us four more years of Mr. Trump.
We need to redirect the conversation away from immigration, and toward issues such as healthcare where we can win.
33
Debates show the ability of potential nominees to answer hard questions and do so with knowledge, integrity, grace and charisma. They are not supposed to be love fests or to give deference to party leaders. So I have no problems with any candidate bringing up tough issues. They will be even harder when the nominee faces Trump in debates. The last two nights began to give us a glimpse into what the candidates are like. I look forward to a whittled down field when there will be better chance to hear more from fewer and so get a better chance to assess them prior to voting. So great to see such a diverse field and the surge in women candidates. Way to go democrats!
1
Harris’ grandstanding attack makes me feel ill at ease. She looks too « clintonian » to me, too close to the big money from Wall Street and the Valley, in short a very easy target in the general election.
12
I think people are overreacting about Kamala’s calling out Joe Biden. She was still respectful and gave him a chance to respond, but he simply didn’t have a very good response. I wonder if this is another example of sexism where a woman is called out for something a man would not be?
5
This may not sound right, but right now I am a little peeved at the black community. K.H. and others are out there and very loud and angry. Where were they in 2016? Where were they embracing HRC, helping to defeat Trump and the Republicans. They stayed home in 2016.
4
@Paul E Really. So it's black people's fault that white people elected Donald Trump? And where are your statistics that black folks stayed home. I would say you should be peeved at those voters who threw away a vote on Bernie Sanders. I don't see you being angry at that.
2
Future debates should have the top candidates all together on one stage. Honestly, listening to Rep. Ryan debating with Beto was a waste of time, as clearly neither is going to be President. I'd much rather see Warren and Klobuchar debating the 4 top contenders of last night.
5
I can't get too emotionally invested in the current gaggle of candidates, because the entire Democratic primary process will serve only one purpose: to determine who will serve one term and then lose in a 2024 landslide to AOC.
GeneGrossman.com
2
Harris' attack on Biden was cringe-worthy: rehearsed, opportunistic, cynical and mean-spirited. And her only "contribution" to the debate, drowning out candidates that actually had things to say (Hickenlooper, Bennet, Gillibrand). Sanders was the grumpy uncle on the front porch, Mayor Pete out of his depth. The candidates tried to outdo themselves on radicalism - we may just as well abolish passports and offer the world free healthcare. No one mentioned the homeless disaster, amazingly.
9
@Kai
Harris loves to play the race card, whether on Twitter or in the debate, deflecting and trying to win back the black vote that's been attacking her record as a tough on crime prosecutor.
4
My opinion is that Donald Trump is a danger to the entire world. For Democrats to win back the Presidency, they need to determine which candidate has the best chance of beating Trump on a head to head basis and nominate her/him. Keep in mind, with only one vote per person, most Americans vote for someone or not based on one issue only - be it taxes, abortion, racial resentment, etc. Determine which issue flips citizens’ switches the most and go for it. Medicare for All (which I am for), unfortunately will lose the election for the Democrats. However, lowering the Medicare eligibility age to 60, would be attractive to many voters. Many conservative voters, although voting for Trump, complain about healthcare costs, and wish for the day they turn 65. Subsequent to that you slowly incorporate more age groups. John Kennedy didn’t launch a man to the moon the day after his Rice University speech. He proclaimed “within a decade”. Let the journey begin.
6
I'm befuddled by readers supporting Biden after the disastrous outing last night. He had literally 0 coherent answers. He mistook insurance companies for pharma companies. He doubled down on how he supported busing (no, you didn't) when confronted by an obvious query/attack by Harris. He stated as an answer to the question, "what would you do on your first day as president?", that he would beat Donald Trump. Hello? Is anyone still home in that head?
11
Here is a question that Obama needs to be asked in his next interview: given Joe Biden’s entanglement with racist policies and racist politicians how could you have selected him to be your vice president not once but twice? And Obama needs to be pressed on this.
6
@jack
The Democratic Party consultants and Team Obama engineered the Biden as veep selection in order to soften the optics of a young, inexperienced black guy at the top of the ticket. Precariously perched Team Obama used Biden and the mostly washed up Biden used Team Obama. The proper long game 2008 ticket ought have been Clinton/Obama so she could repair the country from Bush and so Obama could gain 8 necessary years of veep experience to then run in 2016. But the Democrats have never known how to play the long game and often can't even find the ball field.
3
@jack Really? What does your question have to do with getting rid of the menace in the WH? Is President Obama running for something the rest of us aren't aware of?
1
No question Harris won the debate, but the most thoughtful lines again came from Buttigieg, as has been his pattern.
10
Biden has nothing to be ashamed of from his political past. If is he is such a racist, as so indicted by Harris, then why did Barack Obama select him as his running mate? Harris is just a political opportunist scoring small points of cheap shots. If she gets the opportunity to run against Trump, he will crush her just like he did Clinton. Thank you.
11
Clinton got 3 million more votes than he did. Weakest electoral college win in history
2
Harris certainly went for the jugular in her confronting of Biden making the absolute most of the moment. She is a master of indignation on the issue of race. Absolutely no doubt that she had this very kind of confrontation with Biden cocked and ready for an opportune moment in last night’s debate.
Twenty candidates over two nights — let the winnowing begin. All too reminiscent of 2015 GOP gaggle of 17 donnybrook. That process of raw distillation produced the most poisonous brew in modern American political history— Donald Trump as POTUS.
Not hard to imagine the Democratic Party managing to fail to unseat Trump for the sake of finding and fielding the most ideologically and politically correct nominee.
4
Biden came across as doddering and infirm. He really should drop out of the race at this point.
8
I want to lift up a point Joe Biden made on our border crisis. It was this administration that cancelled aid to Central America. It was this administration that fostered the crisis of human caravans and the crossing of our border by refugees (not "illegals" as Fox and Friends euphemistically say). Biden's point revealed the diabolical nature of this administration - creating a crisis for the purpose of advancing its' base of racism, hatred, xenophobia, and a wall. Treating human life worse than animals. Separating families and caging children. How I wish there would have been an opening at that point in the debate to realize the dynamics of cutting aid to Central America and the current border crisis. I hope it gets revisited in forthcoming debates.
8
@1blueheron
Look closer and you'll see that today's crisis began in 1965 under LBJ and Democrats, with both parties whistling past that bad immigration law graveyard, equally harming the U.S. and American citizenry for next 55 years.
1
@Maggie The recent caravans are from the recent cuts. I am well aware of the Reagan era backing of Untied Fruit growers and all the land reforms in Central America - our mercenaries, arms shipments and the backing of genocide there. But the Trump cuts are the reality now.
3
As a traditional Republican moderate -- now unconnected to the crazies in charge of the GOP -- I want someone reasonable to beat Trump. I don't want an extreme lefty. Biden fits the moderate bill, and I believe he can beat Trump if the Democrats don't destroy him first before committing mass suicide by drinking their own brand of Kool-Aid. I agree with the concerns of the Dems, but the idea that someone has to be so "Lilly-white," ... er, "Lilly-multicolored" and politically correct, will doom their chances. Tolerance of mistakes, gaffes, prior positions, goes a lot farther than requiring perfection. Look at how much the GOP tolerates in Trump. Harris' attack on Biden does nothing but force out a good moderate and someone who can beat Trump, who all Dems believe is more of a present danger than even North Korea.
11
With the repugnant situation Republicans and conservatives have allowed in our country, there is no room for " moderates" anymore.Either you vote for Trump and continue to be that silent enabler or accomplice or you vote Democrat. By the way, I have studied Socialism and Communism at university. What Democrat candidates is not Socialism. It is what the rest of the world who appreciates their citizens as more than just sources of revenue already do: take care of them with education and health as human rights, not sources of profit.
1
@Rosie If you don't think there's room for moderates, you're doomed. Most Americans are moderates. Believing that "sharpening class conflict" by joining only the extreme left or right is a prescription for re-electing Trump (who is just another extreme: extremely bad). Those of us who like synthesis (to borrow from Marx and Hegel) don't like glomming onto the extremes of any kind.
2
As a democratic voter, I can sadly say we are poised to lose. Welcome all illegal immigrants, free education for all, medicare for all. Geez all I heard was how a tax collection plate would be passed around. How all that money would be used is an opaque, nonexistent plan.The government has always collected enough money, it is the inefficient distribution and prioritization that results in seeming deficiencies in healthcare and education. As for welcoming illegal immigrants, that will be the ticket that loses the democrats their elections. Without addressing how they are going to absorb large populations of illiterate people, they are no different from anti-abortion rights folks who bring all kids into the world and then abandon those vulnerable children to the vagaries of their environment.
I am despondent, I will vote democratic out of principle, to fight the republicans with their right wing rhetoric. But will I be doing the right thing in voting democratic? Will we really be better off?
58
@Meena
I seriously feel sorry for young kids these days. Everyone talks about how Millennials (and I assume at this point also includes gen Z) are ruining things. How they just want handouts and free things. But they are facing stagnant wages, increasing college education costs, increasing home prices, increasing health care costs, the inevitable collapse of the social security system, and quite frankly the possibility that global warming is going to cause an irrevocable shift in how the human race lives on this planet.
You ask how we're going to pay for these plans? Raise taxes. The solution is clear as day. There's no reason capital gains shouldn't be taxed as income. There's no reason why the top tax bracket for high income earners shouldn't be drastically higher than it is now. Lets go with that 70% tax on the ultra wealthy proposed by AOC. And raise taxes on income earners over $500k and up as well. The wealthy get a benefit from our government. Business owners benefit from a well educated population, paid for by the government. Their workers and service providers use roads to get to work, paid for by the government. Police and fire protection is paid for by the government. The wealthy like to pretend they pay more than their fair share and don't get anything in return and that is simply not true. We need to raise taxes on the wealthy, and we need to raise them a lot.
10
@Richard I agree that capital gains should be taxed as income. It's a lot easier to make money from this than going to work everyday for years.
But PLEASE do not mention AOC. She makes me sick. If I, a lifelong Democrat, is sickened by her, imagine the response of an independent voter?
6
No, we are not "posed to lose". All we need is for everybody to become engaged and vote. They have the uneducated white vote. We Democrats have the proud educated white vote, proud women, proud minorities, proud younger voters. We are a majority. We just need to shake this Eeyore attitude.
2
The key debate question for me was and remains: How will the candidate perform against Donald Trump in a debate? Ms. Harris promised to come out fighting and to deliver calm but effective punches. That's a real skill.
6
I did not appreciate Kamala Harris' gratuitous attacks on Joe Biden and do not feel she will represent the majority of Dems in a primary choice.
While I do like Joe Biden, I feel his time to be POTUS has passed- unfortunately.
My feeling right now is that Elizabeth Warren has the best and most comprehensive plans to serve as POTUS.
Having said that- I would support anyone who wins the Dem nomination.
On a side note,I had no idea who Marianne Williamson is and still cannot figure out why she had a place on the debate stage while the sitting governor of Montana was excluded.
That was a mistake in my opinion.
The range of Dem candidates represent a wide and deep bench of both experience and new ideas.
I feel every candidate is competent,moral, decent and truthful- the exact opposite of the current person in the WH.
8
It's obvious what Harris is up to: black Americans are overboard for Biden in the polls, and Harris is a woman who has to tell these voters that she is black and that Biden once voted for legislation that was less than pro-black.
She planned it;she did it, and she showed no shame. Politics is a rough game, like mud wrestling. No wonder we have a nation governed by a loud mouth--that's the first requirement for office.
Sad to see the candidates shouting out to be heard, like fish-hawkers (mixed metaphor!) in raw competition. NBC should make it impossible for more than one speaker at a time to be heard.
Better: the candidates should get together and agree that they will not lower themselves to the level of the past two nights, agree that they will allow a speaker to finish without interruption and then allow the next speaker to talk. They could appoint their own chairman up there, since the network seems to approve of shouting by the candidates, while telling the audience that the candidates will have more time to talk if they (the audience) do not respond to what is said.
High-school debates are set up with better guidelines than we have seen the last two nights.
10
Oh I preferred watching Deadwood rather than the debates. They sort of make me cringe. I would be shivering like Homer Simpson when he has to work or give up Duffs beer. What I did see was a bit like watching movie stars dance. It’s usually not pretty.
Y’all pick me someone good. Preferably a woman
@Sherarae Exhibit A - This is why the country is in the shape it's in.
1
@J. Faye HardingNo you are wrong. I vote every single election. I don't care if someone is gay, black, brown, pea-green. I get angry when I witness racism, sexism, and bullying. I speak up when I see it and would take a bullet if need be to protect my fellow human being. Love is love to me. I'll never vote for Trump. Usually I go for dems. I register people to vote. Volunteer at schools and on the border. I'm smart, educated and didn't vote for Trump. I hold no responsibility for any fool that put him in office. I just don't care to watch something I have no control over. Like you assuming I am the problem I wish to turn it back to you. It's the self-righteous folks like you who are blind to the other side. The other side that have been struggling for years to get ahead. That is why our country is in the shape it is in. Because most Americans are lazy, disengaged and quiet to criticize and call names and pass blame. They think voting isn't worth their effort. Watching those stupid debates has nothing to do with the shape our country is in. Your apology is accepted.
2
@J. Faye HardingOh and let us not forget that electrol college fiasco....
1
I think the debates organizers are right: the mics of unimportant candidates should be turned off. Those candidates should be grateful they were invited to the debates at all.
2
I wonder if there is going to be another "Russian interference" when it comes out that the corporate media apparently sought to keep some candidates quiet by constantly turning their mics off. Did Andrew Yang got almost no air time because the media didn't find him entertaining enough?
4
Looks like Kamala did the Scorpion & Frog thing in a manner of speaking. Kamala, you coulda been a contender.
2
Harris may have 'won' last night but she did it by being prosecutorial, not presidential; and in the process, STOLE minutes from the other candidates especially Andrew Yang who we all dearly need to hear from; jobs are disappearing due to advancing technology at a frightening rate; our collective life expectancy is down due to suicides, opioid addiction and financial stresses, and he's the only one talking about it. Shame on the moderators at MSNBC for not cutting the mics of those who ignored the previously agreed-upon time limitations.
How about a do-over somebody? Just not with that same crew of people who lost control of the night. Yang wants to give every adult $1K a month paid for by a tax on those who hardly pay any taxes yet at all - the billionaires at Amazon and Google who monetize OUR private info for their benefit. Maybe we'd finally get the homeless off the streets (a public health hazard and obscene in such a wealthy country) and enable the shrinking middle class to thrive again.
4
I think this article places way too much emphasis on Biden and is way too dismissive of Bernie Sanders. Could it be that the NYTs, a large corporation, likes to wallow in political correctness, but feels threatened by an anti-corporate candidate? I’m not saying reporters are told what to say. But I think they might be reluctant to bite the hand that feeds them. I believe Biden should be the below-the-fold, sidebar story here, not Sanders.
Biden had a bad first debate. Does he have it in him to recover and show that he can take on Trump? He should have been better prepared because Trump will not debate per se but he will throw zingers from open borders, free medical care for illegals, socialism, etc. at Biden and he had better be ready with a good at least one sentence response!!
And Wow to the Harris Hate. If Biden can't handle Harris, what's up? Harris took her moment, ignored her own record and showed she could really walk over Trump. That is not an endorsement of her candidacy but the hate is too much.
Trump has all he needs to ride to victory on issues alone at this point. Each Democratic candidate is going to have to convince voters for or against Medicare for All, a Democratic immigration plan, Socialism, Income Inequality, etc.
Fact: Trump will attempt to scare Americans between now and 11/20 based on the debates of this week. His messaging is simply Far Superior to any Democrat so far and I see no reason for this to change. One of those on the stage has to be up to that challenge.
3
Good grief. Who among us wants to be judged by what we did 40 years ago? The man didn't even do anything reprehensible. People had different ideas about the busing thing. He phrased his bipartisan career ineloquently. 40 years ago, marajuana, interracial marriage, and abortion were all illegal! Things change. They evolve. See: Charles Darwin. It's called science.
What is incontrovertible is the man's dedication to civil rights. I'm 50 years old (gasp!) and I don't even get why this son/boy thing is all about. I had to look up the busing brou-ha-ha. Don't quite get that either. Did the kids ultimately get to ride the buses? Yes. Was it some huge success story? No. In the 1970's weren't people of all races allowed to ride pubic buses anyway? I had to take a bus to school. I hated it.
Perhaps a way to decide who has the right to cast stones here is to find out what Kamala Harris was doing 40 years ago. She an I probably had the same pictures from Tiger Beat magazine on our bedroom walls. I sure wouldn't want to be judged by those standards today!
2
@Nadia
I agree. No one would want to be judged by what they did 40 years ago. But Biden did not say he evolved. He doubled down. Big difference.
3
When you are a politician running for president, you will be judged. He is been in the game for a long time and he should know better. This is not the 50's anymore where white old men are not to be confronted or questioned.
4
It's early in the game and not a time to be pitting Dems against one another as in a "food fight". My early hope for a Biden-Harris ticket was shattered last night by the animosity Harris showed against Biden. However it also indicated she has the stuff to push back against Trump's bullying and name calling as the only means he has to denigrate an opponent. She would make a good attack support person in the campaign. Obama chose Biden for his V.P. because of his rapport with the senate. There is much to admire in trying to get cooperation in the congress through careful horse trading. Otherwise nothing gets done.
And one more thing: I take exception to referring to all people of color as "black" when "mixed race" would be more appropriate for those candidates as in Harris's case. An Indian women is not black she is Indian and proud of it. I hate the black vs.white comparison and we should discontinue its use.
5
I really, really want to know who is/are lobbying the Democratic party and its candidates to support giving free health care to illegal immigrants and promoting open borders?
This is NOT what Obama wanted. What changed?
4
Nobody. It is called basic human decency. Ask that guy Christians love so much, Jesus.
1
If the dems lose again in 2020, it may well be because they cling to the same tired assumption of a liberal/conservative dualism echoed here by the NYTimes' reporting. Some of Trump's supporters turned to him from Obama not because Clinton wasn't moderate enough (a laughable presumption), but on the contrary, because they had no interest in supporting the status quo. Concern over concentration of wealth permeates red and blue states alike, and while Trump's policies substantially escalate this problem, Trump gained traction in 2016 because he at least purported to have a position on the issue (no matter how disingenuous and incoherent).
1
I couldn't listen to the whole debate, in fact I couldn't listen to very much. Seems like the Dems have adopted a republican strategy of tear stuff down but don't offer anything substantive to build it back up. of course Biden as the FrontRunner will be constantly attacked.
3
Given the priority awarded to identifying "The Winner" of this week's debates, the inescapable fact of the matter is that the Republican Party, Vladimir Putin & Donald Trump emerged on top. Weak, unqualified & unelectable candidates worked hard to damage the few legitimate candidates on the stage. Predictably, all manner of pundits opined on who "won" the so-called debates without explaining the criteria or relevance of "winning". These side-shows seem intended at identifying candidates with entertainment value rather than effectiveness as a candidate or more importantly, the candidate's ability to govern competently. Last time around in 2016 Donald Trump was anointed "winner" of the debates. How has that worked out for American democracy or for our national security?
3
I would like to see Harris or Warren be President but Biden also represents a block of old people who show up at the polls in a huge group. We cannot denigrate old people or they will all vote for the old guy still in the oval. We must not be the party ripping the torch from them. They lived through serious societal changes and kept civil rights going.
3
Pointing out to somebody that "it is time to let go" is not denigrating. What is it with babyboomers who think aging doesn't applyto them? Part of being a grown up is to accept reality and to come to terms with the new roles life has to offer you. You can still be very valuable as a source of experience and wisdom. Let the young ones do the heavy lifting.
1
The Democratic Party has am exceptional slate of compelling candidates. Any one of them- to the one- will defeat Trump in 2020. The polls are rock-solid: Trump has no pathway to capturing 270 electoral votes. His base is fixed- not expanding. He has nothing else to lie about, and no more bogeymen to spin. Yet he continues to spread fear, which is his most potent asset. Americans will not be bended by fear in 2020. We will register our contempt for Trump at the polls.
Relax folks. The sky is not falling.
4
@JW Jenkins. Trump's support just expanded by one with all the de facto open borders and health care for undocumented non-citizens. More will follow. You cannot win an election when you show more concern for foreigners who have not been invited to the US than for your own fellow citizens.
1
Salwell and Harris did their campaigns harm by attacking Biden. While the pundits may have thought she "won" just read the comments from voters...the people are not buying her attack on Biden for de-segregation busing 47 years ago. I like them all but trust these two a bit less now.
3
No they did not. They are a new generation where old white men are not automatically "venerated". Biden wants to run for president? then buckle up because the ride is not easy.
1
Kamala was also little girl who grew up to be a prosecutor who actively campaigned against releasing from prison who had been proven innocent. This is all such a joke.
6
I’ve tried to characterize the 2020 election as a professional wrestling match, but the Times doesn’t like my characterization. I’ll see if I can tone it down so it gets by the censors.
Donald Trump is a big pro wrestling fan and has hosted pro wrestling events in his venues, so using it as a metaphor for the election is not far removed from reality: Trump views the election as a match – a death-match. The comparison is also accurate in the sense that pro wrestling is fake, the rules are fluid, and contestants will use whatever means necessary to win. This is the perfect environment for Trump to operate in; it’s his milieu, how he views life.
Whoever wins the Democratic nomination will have to get into the ring with Trump – and I’m not sure dignity and manners are going to win many points. As always – Trump will control the narrative.
It’s not much of an imaginative leap, to picture the Democratic candidate in the ring facing a large man (Trump) who is wearing a cape and fierce-looking Mexican wrestling mask (a lucha libre mask) and who is willing to taunt, insult, strut and use any means necessary (lies, voter suppression, help from the Russians) to win.
And who is going to referee the match – the Electoral College? The Supreme Court – again?
Now, let’s see if the Times will let this pass.
2
In a perfect world, a black female prosecutor would bring down Trump. But any of these people would be better and much safer than what we have now. Likes and dislikes? Sure. I find Gilliband offensive--but I'd vote for her in a second if she ran against Trump.
I doubt we'll get Medicare for all or free college in my lifetime but with Trump removed, I expect to live out my lifetime.
4
With 20 candidates visible in two nights, two women were most memorable: Warren and Harris. Both articulated with obvious clear thinking. Neither became flustered or were unprepared, both able to think and process information at the same time. I am not necessarily advocating for either, but it is important to select and elect a strong leader, who will take charge without declaring herself king. The idea that one can only support a candidate whose message must conform 100 % with the voter's position is unrealistic. Quality and qualified should be the standard, along with a respect for the voter and the position of President.
6
Trump will not debate the winning Democratic candidate. He knows he is incapable of doing more than running a low grade comedy show. He will focus on stupid juvenile name calling to appeal to his low education base.
In the face of predictable Trumpian cowardice and foolishness, are we going to witness another Democratic Party circular firing squad? Are the candidates going to do Trump's nasty work for him? Rather than trying to destroy their colleagues the candidates should be promoting themselves by describing their qualifications and their clearly outlining their positions.
8
Well, Kamala, you just lost any chance for the Dems to get the Presidency. Your disingenuous and rehearsed attack on Biden might garner the black vote but it turned me, a white liberal voter, totally turned off and I would never vote for you. And the same goes for my wife and who knows how many million Dems out there. Pandering to 20% of the Democrats will never get you elected and insinuating that Biden was a racist is insulting. If you want respect, remember how Obama was during the first run to the presidency and the 8 years in the position. And he was also of mixed blood.
14
My wife and I are in total agreement with you. This was an opportunistic, unfair attack and it completely turned me off from Ms. Harris, who I was somewhat supportive of prior to this. She just lost my vote.
8
I agree. It was really ugly politics. But I think people who insist on a woman will likely prefer Warren and people who insist on a racial minority will likely prefer Booker (both of whom I personally prefer to Harris), so Harris will become a nonfactor. If all she can do is pander along demographic lines, she has no hope.
I have not picked a favorite yet, as there is a long way to go. But it won't be Kamala Harris.
8
Harris's treatment on Biden on the debate stage, where he was trapped, unable to respond decisively out of fear, I assume, of saying the WRONG THING, was low. I would never vote for her. This is not the kind of person I'd want as President, someone who has to dig into the topic of busing during the 70s to claw her way up the front runner pack. Biden should defend his record, all of it, and admit where he feels he would do things differently now. He's a fine man, our John McCain. I've lost respect for some of the others up on that stage as well.
8
Why should Biden’s inability to respond be blamed on Harris?
2
I prefer a Buttigieg/Harris ticket, but either way would make our country worlds better than it is now under this destructive Republican dictatorship, especially if we can also oust McConnell, who has jerked America into far-right extremism.
I love how Harris handled Biden. It needed to be said.
4
No it didn’t. Biden has nothing to apologize for on this front. He’s no racist and she knows it.
3
As a lifelong Democrat, let me just say, "Get Real." Biden's the only candidate who has a real shot of actually beating Trump. Anyone who thinks otherwise lives in a fantasy land.
4
This is exactly what Republicans we’re saying about Jeb Bush beating Clinton in 2016. We should choose the best person-not try to game the system based on notions of electability.
4
The only thing last night's debate made clear is that the Democratic Party needs to have a sign out saying: "Must be this tall to ride." 80% of the contenders are aspirational only. They are in the running because they're clearly delusional and the people that are giving them attention confuse YouTube celebrity with real substance and Facebook posts with actual news.
5
If candidates like these had run in 2016, Trump would be just a historical cipher. Smart, dedicated, attractive, knowledgeable. Able to complete sentences without resorting to insults and ridicule. Wow! There's hope yet.
Well maybe. It's up to the American voters. A certain TV personality said American voters are dumb. Well, hopefully not most of them. Fingers crossed.
Did the Democrats give Trump a gift on immigration and open borders?
7
1. Warren.
2. Harris.
3-20. My favorite governor and climate crusader, a brilliant polyglot whose formidable grasp of language sadly could never translate the phrase “that man’s husband” into midwestern voterese, a robotic focus-group channeler, an annoying loudmouth who did manage to interrupt his way into making a couple pretty good speeches about our party losing its vision, two crotchety old men who should enjoy their twilight years without inflicting them on all of us, a decent but not quite successful Senate candidate now way out of his league, a couple of gimmicky also-rans, a me-too purity warrior who cost us a good senator, a certified gun grabber whose general election odds would match those of the proverbial hot snowball, and an author I’d never heard of who must be a lovely person back home where she'll most certainly be spending the next four years.
2
Kamela was a prosecuter and sent many black men to jail. Biden was a public defender (according to him)
That is one stark difference.
5
Reality Check most of what politcans say an do amount to little benfiting the public. Public is over taxed an under paid. Women who have highest poverty rate an suffer the most being unable to feed children . USA continues to dismantle its manufactoring base which has highest jobs income to living standard.Question is why is government using tax dallors to purchase imports knowing those jobs oringinated in usa an payed taxs. Not one politican will answer this question in fear they upset the rich.
1
The Occupy Wall Street movement in 2011 and the ascendance of an independent primary challenger in 2016 were foreshadowings of what the Democratic Party did its best to deny: the middle class is as mad as hell and is not going to take it anymore. People who insist that a Progressive cannot win, and that the Dems need to run a Moderate have not been paying attention. Half the Millennials stayed away from the voting booths in 2016, and others cast protest votes for third party candidates. (And some Bernie Bros who were Independents, not Dems, voted for Trump.) What America wants is an inspirational candidate, someone who will fight to give them access to good healthcare, jobs tied to climate change technologies, compassionate but sensible immigration policies, and gun safety legislation.
My money is on Elizabeth Warren who has the guts to call out Trump for the loathsome leader he is. But there were many good candidates on stage this week, and I urge these Dems to face the reality that most of them will be dropping out of the race and might consider forming alliances now. A Warren-Buttigieg ticket would be attractive. But wouldn’t it be great to hear that Kamala Harris would be her Attorney General, Jay Inslee her head of EPA, Julian Castro, her head of Homeland Security, Bill Di Blasio her Secretary of Education? Put all this talent to work for us.
7
@Theresa K
After the look Buttigieg gave Swalwell, he’s out for me. And, although I like Harris, her look towards Biden when Bernie was orating was very disrespectful. I would like a Warren/Sanders ticket, or Warren/Booker ticket. I just don’t like writing Bernie off, as he was the only one, last go around, to have the guts to stand up to the status quo, putting his neck on the line, saying “Enough is Enough!” And he has paved the way for all of the others!
2
The debate doesn't mean anything. The only question is, who of the 20 can take down Trump. The answer to that is Biden. This election has not other issue.
3
I live in an upscale, safe neighborhood.
This morning, I opened my front door to leave for work, and what did I see, first thing?
A homeless man asleep on my front patio, profusely apologizing as he shook off his sleep.
Single payer and free community college. NOW. Because if we can afford to subsidize the obscenely wealthy, we can afford to help one another.
5
Notice how people are saying they are turned off by Sen. Harris’s “anger.” But they don’t say that about men. I don’t like Trump but he won in 2016 on anger. Bernie Sanders is popular because of his anger. But they are men, aren’t they?
9
@Oliver Sadly, that's the way it is. And that's why Warren will never be elected president. Certain parts of this country can't stand strong women. Sad but true.
1
@KR
If you notice, men are afraid of smart women unless that woman is part of his personal life; then he’s happy to brag about her.
And that’s why the United States is probably a long ways away from electing a woman president, because men are afraid of smart women who aren’t part of their lives and many times a woman is a woman’s worst enemy.
Elizabeth Warren is now and will always be the smartest person in the room.
1
@Oliver ..until that fragile male ego starts resenting that smart successful woman and needs to find himself a needy Cinderella to rescue so he can feel better about himself. Men are funny creatures who really do not know how to live with and around more powerful, smarter women.
1
I will say this- Kamela Harris would destroy Trump ina debate. I mean, she would just destroy him.
If he tried hat Hillary Stalk Move on KH, she would turn on him like a tiger.
\I also loved Bernie's "...I reject the premise..."
3
Totally agree. The good old Pelosi "let's all get along" style doesn't work anymore. The game has changed so adapt to win, no more Ms. Nice Girl and come out swinging or move on.
1
Biden is just another make-believe Democrat, he got exactly what him and Obama wanted. They weren't hoodwinked by McConnell. If McConnel had demanded all the Bush tax cuts would remain, Obama and Biden would have signed on in a heartbeat.
Harris is living in a glass house and is vulnerable, thanks to her less than stellar record as a prosecutor and AG regarding the truth. The NYT link below provided information that made me question her integrity, and therefore viability as a candidate. “Time after time, when progressives urged her to embrace criminal justice reforms as a district attorney and then the state’s attorney general, Ms. Harris opposed them or stayed silent. Most troubling, Ms. Harris fought tooth and nail to uphold wrongful convictions that had been secured through official misconduct that included evidence tampering, false testimony and the suppression of crucial information by prosecutors.” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/kamala-harris-criminal-justice.html
5
The lady is super new in politics her only concerns is be elected.Let’s face it no experience... we want to choose someone who can gain votes and remove trump from the hits house, the dreamers of 2016 who dreamed of electing a women need to wake up because this country is not ready yet to elect a woman as president !
1
@Idriss So women should just step aside because only a dude could beat Trump? Do you even support the right of women to run for high offices? How about people of color, should they be allowed to run against Trump?
2
I would ask Ms. Harris what she has done to promote desegregation in her own state, including busing. "Harris’s home state of California is the most segregated in the country for Latino students, where 58 percent attend what the Civil Rights Project considers “intensely segregated schools” — schools that enroll 90 to 100 percent nonwhite students or an equivalent share of white students."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/28/joe-biden-kamala-harris-busing-integration-schools/?utm_term=.474e07612e28
3
The story's title and lede are essentially just another hit job as part of the Times Anybody-But-Biden agenda.
As to their description of the Harris -Biden interchange regarding hurtful feelings (certainly not a debate on racial policy), I would just note the following: Harris finds Biden working with segregationists, the Senate reality when he entered it, "hurtful." Forget for the moment that a Democratic President will have to know how and be willing to work with a Republican Senate advocating functionally racist policies to get anything accomplished after 2020. A candidate who makes a major point of having her or his feelings hurt by Biden's comments will be easy roadkill for Trump when it comes to debates and public sparring.
4
The Democrats will be handing this election to Trump on a silver platter if they don't focus on the economy and health care as t he top issues. And the idea that Biden is not concerned with civil rights is just ludicrous.
4
I hold no animus for Sen. Harris, but has anyone confirmed her claim that there was forced busing in Berkeley in the 1970s? I attended the Univ. of Calif. at Berkeley from the early to the mid 70s and it was a boiling pot of angry radicalism; it was part of its charm. But I cannot imagine the city would have tolerated forced busing.
2
For all of you who say Biden is the past, and I don't disagree, whom do you see as the future? Do you really think Harris can appeal to the electorate? She doesn't even appeal to many Democrats! Mayor Pete--is he experienced enough? Elizabeth Warren (love her), but can her brilliant intellectualism go up against Trump's red-meat machine? Bernie--socialism is not going to cut with most of America. And for once, can we please top with the circular firing squad and eating our own? All Harris did with her attack on Biden was give Trump ammo. I'm not seeing a "star" yet--a person who could overshadow Trump. If Biden wakes up and gets his act together, he's probably our best bet.
5
There is no perfect Dem candidate, from any one of our perspectives. I'm sure that we each have our favorites we'd Like to See Win, no? But who's kidding whom here? Each Dem candidate seems to be more focused on being The Winner, than on ....ensuring that a Dem wins the White House.
I'll be glad when all this self-serving grandstanding and back and forth attacks are over with. It's tiring.
My biggest concern...and the concern of all of us... needs to be, how do we agree on the Dem candidate who is most likely to win some much-needed votes from certain Moderates and certain Trump supporters? The goal must be to beat Trump. We Dems must put aside our 'favorite' candidates, and streamline the Dem candidates to the 2-3 most likely to beat Trump. And imho, Biden is among those names. He's an 'old white guy', he's charming, well-spoken, and most Americans already know him. Now is not the time for us to try and get a strong female, and/or a person of color, into the White House (nice as that would be). It has to be a middle-of-the-road candidate to beat Trump.
3
@Lisa Bullesye. You said it. Let's focus on beating Trump in 2020. We can deal with pie in the sky candidates in the future. The focus needs to be on beating Trump. And Biden's the only one who can realistically do that next year.
Nothing gets done in Washington without give and take and uncomfortable alliances. Surely, Kamala Harris has some of those in her closet. If she doesn’t, she probably hasn’t accomplished much in politics.
5
Harris said she didn't want a 'food fight' - then she threw the first bun. Biden, it seems, hurt her feelings when he said his record shows he could work across the aisle to get past the gridlock of Washington. For the lady who so seldom lets principle stand in the way of personal success, the hypocrisy was palpable.
And then she played her racist card. She said she didn't think Biden was a racist but said it so unconvincingly and with so many 'buts' dripping from her tongue that viewers could hardly miss her subliminal message - 'he's a racist'. This from a California prosecutor who was blind to the racism that permeated the trials in which she was involved.
Harris is a chameleon - she can be black when it suits her, white when it doesn't. In fact she can rapidly assume whatever colour or flavour the voter wants. Her ability to speak in tongues is made all the easier by her reticence to be nailed down on any issue of substance or any policy of importance.
It's not that I believe Biden is the best on offer - his candidacy made all the more dubious given his inability to respond to attacks in the sharp, confident manner that a one-on-one with Trump would demand. Nor is Biden likely to satisfy the craving for fundamental change. But if Biden is not the answer, then neither is Harris. Hopefully voters have had their fill of cynical candidates who would say or do anything to get ahead.
8
So how did busing work out Kamela? The schools are just about as segregated now based on economic class which follows ethnic identity very closely? It was a failed social experiment.
2
I think the DNC debates organizers are right: the mics of unimportant candidates should be turned "off".
2
What astounds me is that the Democrats and media have already agreed with the GOP and Trump that Biden cannot possible face all the Trumpian lies and will wilt under the barrage the GOP will aim at Biden. There seems to be no sense that Americans have learned anything whileTrump is in the WH. That Americans are not offended and frightened by his irrational behavior. It is almost as if the media has already decided Trump is a real president and Biden's history is a sham. The American people deserve to be accounted for not being asleep while Trump has been in the WH. Democrats will show up and vote, as they did in the mid-terms, and there will be an end to this Trump nightmare. But to simply dismiss Biden as not up to the battle will lead to dismissing any potential candidate as not up to the job of taking on Trump and he will have another four years before any votes are cast. And if that happens it will partially be because the media has created this false sense that Trump is unbeatable. That is nonsense. Trump's voter will be in lock step but the rest of us deserve a chance to vote for a candidate, whoever that may be, that is capable of representing the best of what America stands for and is not dismissed by the GOP, Trump or the media.
It broke my heart to see the Democrats commit suicide by promising free health care for and the non prosecution of illegals. I will still vote Democrat simply because the candidate can be reasoned with to act sensibly and Trump needs to go. However, they have a HUGE hill to climb.
77
@manuscriptman - I still won't vote Democratic; however, manuscriptman is right.
8
I share your concerns, my spirits sank while watching both nights. There was nothing about immigration and Harris’s grievance rant that makes me optimistic about our future. I am terrified that Democrats are gonna loose again.
Democrats are not making the case for my vote.
Black, proud and disappointed am I.
13
@manuscriptman
I agree and I wrote to Kamala Harris (my Senator) and told her to stick to bread and butter issues and stop this nonsense about free healthcare for illegal immigrants and reparations for descendants of slaves.
Are they just nuts?
It is inconceivable that anyone could win any votes by pushing those two issues, the cost of which would burden already strapped American taxpayers.
These will be deal breakers for me.
18
Biden fought in the arena as it was over the past 40 years. It is quite easy for monday morning quarterbacks like Kamela to judge him. What would she have done if she had been in the Senate or House during those years? Probably much the same.
62
I think when people dig into her past as the DA and the AG of California, she’ll find herself in hot water. She’s certainly not a “progressive prosecutor”.
9
@Saints Fan
Not the same; probably nothing.
Why compromise? Why work with people you dislike? Just vote "no" or "abstain" on everything and watch the world go by.
4
We have a Republican Party that has been fighting for decades to increase income inequality, destroy the environment for short-term profit, limit women’s rights, shred the social safety net and take away the right to vote for low income citizens. The debate shows a clear division between those who want to fight these efforts vigorously and reverse their consequences and those who want to continue to seek compromise. The problem is not just Trump. This has been going on long before he entered the picture.
What we saw last night from Sen. Harris in her "take-down" of Joe Biden was a calculated, well-conceived and almost perfectly executed piece of political theater that the media was hungry for and swallowed like candy. She threw Biden under the bus on Civil Rights and offered him a moment to stand firm on his record and redeem himself publicly for his comment about Eastland and Talmadge. What sunk him was his deer-in-the-headlights reaction in the moment. But the moment also showed Harris to be a showboater with lots of prosecutorial experience. She almost manufactured a tear as she talked about the little girl whose picture was immediately tweeted out...Compare that moment to the consistent brilliance and authenticity demonstrated the night before by Sen. Warren. There were nine other candidates on the stage last night, many with good ideas, but the talking heads on MSNBC and CNN could only revel in Harris's takedown of Joe. They want action, excitement, conflict; winners and losers. I am not a Biden supporter; he did look and sound old, tired, and discombobulated. Bernie, more and more, sounds frustrated; exasperated that people just can't see the obvious; he's coming across as apoplectic; Mayor Pete has a wonderful demeanor; he's honest and humble, but not convincing voters that he's tough enough to take down the blowhard DT. Joe and Bernie should step aside and let Dems choose between the the scholar Warren and the polished lawyer, Harris.
5
KHarris' attack on Biden was a sad act of desperation. She's not doing well in the polls so she looks for sympathy using gender/color as the base of her assault. Maybe she's riding low in the polls because the country doesn't care for her politics. And I'm an independent voter.
9
As I've been saying for weeks now, the major Democratic candidates need specific, detailed immigration plans immediately. This issue seems to be a major blind spot they are not prepared for. Complaining of kids in cages and opposing the wall are not enough. Take the plan that passed the Senate a few years ago and make it your own. If you don't define yourself on this issue, the Republican smear machine will.
3
Yeah, Kamala Harris, who you can’t question about anything because she’s spent her entire career avoiding substantive issues so nobody would be able to question her record in a presidential debate. Give me a break.
7
"Obama had to prioritize. If you could only pass one thing, what would it be?"
Swalwell - gun violence
Bennett - climate change
Gillibrand - paid leave and universal pre-K
Harris - middle class tax cut, DACA, guns
Sanders - I reject the premise
Biden - Obama did not, how dare you
Buttigieg - fix our democracy
Yang - $1000 for everyone
Hickenlooper - climate change
Williamson - I would call the Prime Minister of New Zealand and tell her she's great
5
Lots of folks with Southern placenames/addresses here saying that Harris "...anger..." was a turnoff for them.
Folks- it is time to be angry.
And try- just pleas etry- to forget 400 years of Southern Culture teaching you that blacks are supposed to stay in their place, and that women are supposed to stay in their place and that, ABOVE ALL. black women are supposed to stay in their place.
The North won the Civil War. The 13th and 14th Amendments were adopted.
The Civil Rights Acts and the Voting Rights Acts were passed.
Old Times may not be forgotten Down South- but you do need to adjust to the 21st Century.
It is time to be angry.
1
Take a look at Harris’ record as California Attorney General. Biden’s team needs to do its research. Harris was not the progressive she claims to be.
Go Joe!
7
Kamela Harris joined a party that has taken many stands over the years not consistent with moral values. Quite a few of those dems still remain as elected officials, not just Biden. At least Bernie is an independent Why did SHE join a racist party?
1
As per Harris' attack on Biden's long ago stance on busing - He was right. What has busing ever done that was good? If it were such a winner, why has it been stopped?
Children need to be brought up that education is important. By ripping children out of their neighborhoods it does no one any good. Black children won't succeed in school without the influence of white children? If that's so, why is it so? Where's the Black culture that says education is important and to be respected? Busing is not and has never been the answer.
And health care for those here illegally? Why don't we buy them houses too? What can we do to encourage even more of the same behavior? Driving licenses? Oh wait. . .
3
Trump would absolutely refuse to debate Kamala Harris.
He'd claim "bone spurs" or "executive privilege" to avoid such
a disastrous confrontation.
Suffice it to say, Harris would obliterate him.
2
A presidential race that is essentially about race and immigration; as Bannon has expressed about Democrats: “I gotcha” and so Trump will win again.
6
I was flabbergasted to see many unfit candidates make it into the debate, where did they find them, on a chewing gum competition or a scratch a winner lottery game?
The female candidate who was introduced as an author, tarnished the importance of the debate and it made it look amateurish, then Chuck Todd, I thought I was watching comedy central.
The debates should go on forever, they provide great entertainment for all the family and it is clean fun, please do not take Chuck Todd away, he still has plenty of new hair looks to show us.
5
Andrew Yang
Verified account @AndrewYang
Second, I feel bad for those who tuned in to see and support me that I didn’t get more airtime. Will do better (my mic being off unless called on didn’t help) and glad to have another opportunity in July (and afterwards)!
4
The exchange was all about policy. Harris attacked Biden for working with segregationists to stop school desegregation in the 1970's. she wasn't mad because they were friends. She was mad because of what they did together.
1
Pete
Kamala
Corey
Warren
These candidates only should continue their discussions. Everyone else needs to rally. Stop wasting time and money and get our party in order with some direct messaging and drive out the disaster in Washington.
Bernie and Bidey I love you both and thank you for what you have done for this country, but it’s time to move on.
4
When Lyndon Johnson became president Congress had segregationists he passed a major civil rights bill by working with them. He later passed the voting acts bill. He like Biden grew up impoverished. Biden has the most experience. If the Democrats don’t get themselves together we will have 4 more years of trump destroying our Democracy. The country is unfortunately not going to vote for Harris because she is considered black. Racism is alive and well and fueled by the Republicans.
1
If Harris makes it all about "social justice" and personal grievance she doesn't stand a chance being nominated. And good thing.
9
Reading comments from supposedly liberal, minded democrats and independents who are chastising Ms. Harris for relating her personal feelings regarding Mr Biden’s statement is exactly why the Black Americans are removing themselves from the political process. Anytime a Black person talks about their issue, they are told “now is not the time or place” or “get over it”. This applies whenever the topic is bound to make white people uncomfortable. The expectation so far has been to just give us your vote and we’ll get to your concerns later.
If no candidate, from either party, is willing to address issues that specifically matter to Black Americans, then no party deserves that vote. There will be people who will say that this is a waste of a vote or you don’t get anything if you don’t vote, but Blacks have not gotten much of a return for their vote anyway.
And I say this knowing that Ms. Harris is far from a champion for Black Americans. Her tenure as a prosecutor shows open hostility to the civil rights of Black men.
7
Not a Biden supporter but back when school busing was a hot topic I was terrified that my kids would be bussed.
Black and living in the Bronx I loved our little P. S 76 elementary school.
I was decidedly against busing as opposed to having equitable great education in my local community.
However, when my kids went to middle school we paid through the nose for private school for our kids. Public high school was dangerous and something to which we wouldn’t expose our kids.
Biden was right for the wrong reason.
31
Biden has a weakness of sometimes saying the wrong things which can later make him look poorly. The busing issue was one he probably needs to let go rather than try to explain. He supported integration but he thought busing was not a good way to do it and his constituents opposed it, so he opposed it. End of subject.
Instead, he introduced states rights by opposing federally ordered busing. It is even reported that he stated his opposition to busing with a statement that he was for bringing up the standards where children lived, ignoring the separate but equal angle that that repeated.
Biden can undermine himself by letting his words and actions diverge.
2
@JRS what with those who could not or can not pay for private school? is Biden right for them?
3
My point was fix the schools, not put kids in distress by having little kids bussed to strange neighborhoods. I was active as school mom when my kids were little; even being pregnant I went on trips, I cooked a turkey dinner for school kids, alone because many kids were poor. I worked full time to help support our family, too.
6
Kamala Harris was an advocate for the Warren/Samders style health care. I believe we should build on Obamacare. I remember what happened to the Democratic Party during the fight over Obamacare. I think before making sweeping proposals about eliminating private insurance, we need to hear exactly what it costs, how long it will take to implement, etc. The candidate whom I heard asking those questions was Michael Bennett who also made this clear: Mitch McConnell is not going to allow these proposals anywhere close to the Senate. The Democrats need to focus on the Senate as well as the Presidency. As for Joe Biden, 1st debate in a long time, he'll be better next time.
2
We already have a Sanders/Warren style of healthcare: Medicare and Veteran's. The question is why are only certain Americans enjoying the benefits of socialized healthcare?
1
Last nights debate was terrific to watch. I liked seeing the candidates interact and I carefully listened to the quality of their arguments and the reactions to direct 'attacks' from others. The moderators did an excellent job of asking a plethora of questions on significant issues. The Harris- Biden exchange on his past comments didn't bother me as much as others that have commented. Harris was respectful but direct, and Biden was firm in is response. They may disagree on his record but they have both done significant things to advance civil rights and care deeply about the issue. Their passion about it is a very good thing.
I expected Biden to speak more about his extensive experience which sets him apart from the pack. Overall, I was impressed with most of the candidates because of their intelligent responses and comments, and I'm optimistic about 2020 knowing we have many intelligent, passionate people competing for the nomination, all of which will run circles around Trump when given the opportunity.
2
I can't abide Harris's grandstanding and rehearsed gotcha moments, but the real reason I will never vote for her is this:
"Most troubling, Ms. Harris fought tooth and nail to uphold wrongful convictions that had been secured through official misconduct that included evidence tampering, false testimony and the suppression of crucial information by prosecutors."
If you really want justice for all, don't vote for someone who denied it to many.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/kamala-harris-criminal-justice.html
99
@Anonymous I just think she is annoying. We've had to put up with her for years in California. Too self righteous.
8
Biden is a respectable old man, is that the reason democrats should vote for him as many comment writers suggested?
That is quite a preposterous suggestion.
Why would anyone vote for a man who just like
Trump, is stuck in a world in which only men should be in charge, who has demeaned women multiple times (Anita Hill) and never apologized for anything in his at times faulty life and still is proud of his extreme racist Congress men friends.
Biden will be the Democrats Trump, not understanding, not able and willing to understands todays world.
His endless list of offensive gaffes should never be forgotten as they have hurt many people.
Stubborn is NOT something to be proud of, it only means one thing; you are not interested in any idea that is not yours.
Biden is a bureaucrat who believes that people on the top should have the power.
Not unlike the communist systems in Russia and China prime samples where bureaucracy has rum amok.
Almost every other candidate will be better than this ego centric individual.
Being nice is NOT an achievement.
4
As an old white lady, I was thrilled to vote for Obama - twice - he was smart, low-key, thoughtful and never came off like he had a chip on his shoulder, unlike Harris did last night. As a previous person asked: Will she be able to defend her record in another 40 years? She already got static for things she did while California's DA - and she accepted campaign money from Steve Mnuchin in 2016 after refusing to prosecute OneWest. How does she defend that just three years later?
14
Biden was not prepared to debate a Black drama-queen. His challenge is to learn how to debate a Black drama-queen without coming across as sexist nor racist. Sen. Booker and Sen. Harris are playing the race card to get the African American vote. Why? Obama didn't have to play the race card to get Black votes.
12
Wow, I want to congratulate the readers of the New York Times for dissing a black woman because she's angry about segregation. That's a real achievement, and we should all be proud.
9
And I want to congratulate you for intentionally ignoring the substance of the criticism and (rather ironically) using the same "just reduce all then issues to the most basic and incendiary part" motif on which Sen. Harris is clearly relying. What she did to Biden was opportunistic, manipulative, and disingenuous. It was the only night during either debate that I was embarrassed by anything a candidate said.
8
@Kevin And again, the problem isn’t racism, it’s that someone had the temerity to call it out.
I congratulate you on your ability to rationalize your way around that.
Zero ammo for white guy against a black woman. PC culture dooms Dems.
6
Warren
Buttigieg
Yang
Inslee
Calm, intelligent and ready for the blabbermouthed bully POTUS. He will try and antagonize the next Democrat Presidential candidate endlessly. The loud, easily provoked, attack style candidates will get nowhere in 2020 trying to battle Trump.
Check this newspapers op/eds, go to the WA/PO, may as well read the daily headlines and all the comments too. Go back 700+ days, pick anyday at random. Here you will find evidence that Trump embraces the anger. He thrives on it! All those attacks and he's still standing.
Calm unwavering intelligence baffles Mr. Trump. He alone cannot comprehend it, the above listed candidates have what it takes to make America work for working class Americans. And to really get inside Trumps head.
2
We need a lot more details about Kamala Harris and her history in desegregation. Was she really bussed from an all black school to a previously all white school? That was most black students’ experience with bussing.
5
Two words:
Elizabeth Warren
3
I despise Trump, but I am dumb founded as to how we can support all illegals on our healthcare system. That means people from all over the world, not just those from our southern border. In addition, it was noted that any illegal who has not committed a crime should not be deported. This equates to the entire world being able to come here and never having to leave. How beautiful, free healthcare without being taxed for it, as most illegals work for cash. Next, the dems will grant illegals our Social Security benefits. Voting for all is just round the corner. In NY State, illgals now have the right to vote... show up at your local school district with your driver's license and you can vote. Immigration is overall a positive thing for america, but don't we need some controls?
Someone, please help me to make sense of this, as I am willing to listen.
15
@Joan. There's nothing to make sense of, the Democrats would rather bankrupt the country and sell our citizens down the drain just for more future identity politics voters. Socialist societies survive and profit from the miseries of its people.
4
@Joan The new social reality in America is that it doesn’t have to make sense; it just has to make us feel righteous and warm and fuzzy all over. We govern by emotion now, reality is gone.
7
@Joan What I heard is that people coming from other countries who want to stay will be put on a path to citizenship thus giving them the opportunity to use benefits as they work to become U.S. citizens. If there is a path to citizenship people will not be allowed to have an undocumented status for long.
Kamela demonstrated that unlike Biden she would be unable to work with Mitch McConnell or anyone in the Freedom Caucus. Race baiting has no place in these debates . Never ever did Barack Obama play the race card like she did last night.Shame on her and Corrie Booker. For the Democrats to win in the New South, race baiting and reliving the busing trauma will just make the GOP win in the elections.
11
@LVG - Her experience as a person of color in America is relevant and important.
And how did Biden's work with Reps play out in Obama's administration? Last time I heard they could not even get hearing for the Obama's nominee for the Supreme Court. Yeah, it shows Biden's ability to work with Reps.
So, no Democrat will deport anyone unless they commit a crime?
47
I know right!?
As a long standing lefty that moment was... worrisome to say the least. I think in this day and age Democrat’s are worried to admit anyone is culpable for anything, for fear of losing support of the younger generation (which I belong to). It’s insulting. We know the difference between what it means to be against the law and in adherence to it! The former, especially in degrees as large as illegal entry into a nation, requires punishment, no matter how politically ‘unpleasant’ it may be to say so.
19
That point and the one about providing healthcare coverage to undocumented immigrants are two topics where most of these candidates will slowly and surely start to grow away from.
10
@Ezra. Too late. This was videotaped and will be in ads through 2020. You can't walk away from that. People should know they are voting for these de facto open border candidates.
10
Joe Biden's opposition has had 30-40 years to concoct arguments against him. He is very strong on Civil Rights and Voting Rights, as I imagine President Obama will explain at some point. I say let's bring the debate into the 21st century, shall we?
6
I'd like to see a short list of all the candidates who LEGITIMATELY grew up poor. For example, growing up in the suburbs where your family had "periods" of financial "stress" or "uncertainty" would only count for those who did not grow up poor. How can democrats hope to represent the poor when they don't really know what it is. And being fake is not a good way to beat Trump.
4
“Science fiction over science fact” didn’t get the clap Kamala Harris anticipated. Is the rehearsed nature of her delivery going to wear on people over time?
5
Biden had treatment of two brain aneurysms in 1988.
Could that be a problem?
4
"If we don’t clearly define that we are not socialists,” Mr. Hickenlooper declared, “the Republicans are going to come at us every way they can and call us socialist.” They are already branding the Democrats as Socialists. The Democrats MUST start calling them Oligarchs, Fascists and Traitors. Give it back to the Republicans harder than they give it to you. Democrats must stop being punching bags. Where is your self-respect?
142
@Phil M
agreed. it's not like trump's deplorable are going to become enlightened. might as well call it like it is.
12
@Phil M The Democrats would have the advantage of truth in that argument.
8
@Phil M
The Dems must also redefine "Socialist" back to its real meaning and remove all stain of "Communism" from it. Socialism simply means everyone working and looking out for each other under the guidance of People-owned government. Communism is totalitarian.
10
To all the commentators who are criticizing Kamala Harris for challenging Biden last night: What did you expect to happen in a debate? Is she supposed to be respectful because he is an old timer. If he is going to run on his record during his many years in public life, then he deserves to be called out for the positions he took. As a woman of color who made it to the top, I am sure she had to be better and work harder than any white guy around her. Politics is no gentleman’s game. The Republicans are going to come after our candidate with lies and smears from day one. Biden doesn’t appear to be ready for a long, grueling campaign. Last night his answers were not sharp. His sentences drifted as he strung clauses together that meandered off without a clear conclusion. I can’t see him coming up with pithy, forceful rebuttals to Trump’s trash talking. Just shoot me now if it comes down to a debate between two old white guys. Just shoot me now if it comes down to a debate between two old white guys in the fall. Neither one of them represent the future for our country.
166
@Mary Beth
I would like someone to raise this points.
Why were Eastland and Talmadge allowed to sit in the Senate?
Known segregationists should have been removed for failure to uphold the Constitution. Why is Biden the only scapegoat here?
And in 40 years down the road will Harris be able to defend everything she did or said in government?
22
She took down Biden. But it didn’t convince me in any way to vote for her. I would like her to be the prosecutor in my area. But that doesn’t mean I want her to be my president.
Obama was able to convince me twice to vote for him and even give to his campaign. I don’t see Kamala ever motivating me to vote for her - even if Trump is the other candidate.
18
@Mary Beth
SO THE TRUTH IS this is not about the future but NOW. Where are we now and Bernie Sanders last time killed hillary, even after she won the slot. Let's not help Kamala do that now. IN MY VIEW THIS is about preserving our democracy and I do not think she can win and do not think she should destroy the front runner.
9
As an Afro American boomer feminist, I would like all Democrats to take a breath and remember that our country is going down the tubes. I loved Ms Harris's feisty rejoinders, and she showed me she can win a debate. Mr Biden doesn't deserve the revisionist takedowns he's getting from those who were zygotes or toddlers during America's sorry racial past. The present shameful state of our country offers ample opportunity to educate and energize voters rightly fearful that our votes won't be counted. There's no need for ageist or generational laments.
5
I reject the notion that anyone is too old to run for president. Not a Bernie fan, but Mr. Sanders still campaigns with a lot of vigor and his speech is forward looking.
Mr. Biden sounds old and looked old last night. His "son, boy" gaffe last week is an example of someone who doesn't understand the current state of racism in America. We've moved beyond lynchings and blatant segregation to institutional racism. Does he understand that and would he be able to deal with it?
The former vp can only refer to legislation he did in the 20 to 40 years ago. Mr. Biden needs figure out how to cast all of his experience in a 21st century framework. I'm not sure he can do it.
3
As a centrist democrat I am repelled by left of the center policy proposal. I am not impressed with any one, let alone Ms. Kamala Harris as the media seems to be suggesting. I am going to stick with Biden, and we still do not know about Ms. Harris. Biden IMHO is fully balanced not withstanding his gaffes and being in the corridors of power for so long we know as much there is to know about him. Certainly the US need restoration of normalcy to its Presidency and Mr. Biden will ensure that.
2
I’m still for Joe. He is the best of the group to be able to help heal our country. As far as I’m concerned none of the attacks on him held water. He has done things in the past that he regrets and admits to. He is by no means a racist or sexist. He is the “anti-Trump“ and that’s what our country needs right now.
3
...and then there was a break for some commercials from all those EVIL corporations...
6
--With the reelections coming and since the presidential position impacts billions of people all over the entire world I believe that anyone who is allowed to run for the position, they should at least be mentally fit.
--First, there are certain types of people who are drawn to certain types of jobs (Myers-Briggs). And within each type of people is a certain percentage of clinically diagnose-able mental illness. The presidency attracts certain types of people and a certain number of those people are clinically diagnose-ably mentally ill.
--We presently have a neon orange elephant in the room and nobody of consequence has called out the elephant, to its face about being mentally ill.
--I believe that anyone that is throwing their name in the ring for presidential office, they should be required to take the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI). The MMPI is a psychological test that assesses personality traits and psychopathology. It is primarily intended to test people who are suspected of having mental health or other clinical issues.
--If I were any of the Democratic presidential competitors, I would volunteer to take the MMPI and challenge the neon orange elephant in the room to do the same. If I were a democrat I would volunteer to take the inventory and challenge all of the republicans to do the same. This country has serious mental health issues and the problem is pervasively in our government. I would turn this into a mental health challenge.
2
Just wanted to point out that the segregationist senators that Senator Harris mentioned were Democrats!, not Republicans. No one on the left dares mentioning that fact.
8
Biden looked and sounded really bad yesterday. The Democrats need to come to their senses and forget about that man.
54
@heinrichz
"Yes - please do." says Presidenr Trump. Or at least that is what Republicans are hoping for.
5
@heinrichz Well.... look at how badly Trump behaved in the debates, and his juvenile, off-topic retorts and attacks. Didn't seem to be a problem for his winning, now did it?
My point is, bad as Biden may be, it's very possible he'll be able to garner enough votes from the other side, to beat Trump. That should be all that matters at this point.
1
@heinrichz I thought he sounded fine. It was a circus atmosphere.
4
It has become clear from the two nights of debates that the front runners are Harris, Warren, Biden, Buttegieg and Sanders. I think that Sanders should withdraw and throw his support behind Warren to make this a balanced four person race for the Democratic nomination.
4
You're right but Bernie would never go for it.
2
Harris joins Sanders in calling for abolishing private health insurance - which she previously backed and then backed away from.
(Don't worry, this morning she backed away from backing away from private health insurance.)
10
just remember
this election is not just about minority rights and immigration and if we forget that we will lose again. it is creating jobs for all people, healthcare and all those things that make a healthy and happy life for all Americans.
Remember the bell curve.
And we have to consolidate around a candidate who does destroy the potential winner quickly. Biden was right on what is the most important issue...BEATING TRUMP.
3
Marianne Williamson is the first openly anti-plan candidate. Let's just do it and be legends. I'm a big fan.
3
Regardless of what the exchange between Harris and Biden says about Harris, I am concerned about what it says about Biden.
To anyone who feels she was too mean--do you really think Trump will be kinder? If Biden can't play defense against Harris, what happens when he plays defense against Trump?
5
I can't imagine Trump chastising Biden for working with and then praising racists.
I don't know anything about the particulars of Ms. Harris' being bused to school but I am curious about them.
She was the daughter of two well thought of university academics so I doubt she was growing up in some poverty stricken neighborhood with terrible schools that her parents would want her out of. And, as far as I can determine, the schools were in Berkeley, CA, hardly a center of racist feelings, in the early 1970s.
I hope that The Times sends some reporters to check out the full details of her story.
13
I will almost certainly vote for someone other than Biden in the primary. I think it’s great that Harris and others challenge him when appropriate. But I am making a list of the candidates who attack President Obama whether it’s for being “timid” in not acting unconstitutionally by ignoring the Republican Senate and ruling by fiat or for not being “black enough”. The Obamas set a very high standard for intelligence, wit, and statesmanship. Democrats like Tulsi Gabbard who would rather be a Trump Cabinet member than acknowledge the Obamas contributions do not deserve the party’s support.
1
To espouse what appears to be a minority viewpoint: attacking Biden for whatever he did (or didn't) do nearly 50 years ago is just plain silly -- all the more so coming from a former DA whose office prosecuted literal thousands of POC (and young black men in particular) for inconsequential crimes such as marijuana possession, as well as the former AG of a state with an infamous "three strikes" law that's imprisoned scores of people for 25 years or more for equally inconsequential transgressions. (Doing so against a former public defender was even more ill-advised.)
This type of ancient-history rehashing is also a slippery slope argument for Democrats generally. A decade ago every nationally known Democrat's public position on marriage equality, with the lone exception of Dennis Kucinich, was that it was an institution intended solely for opposite-sex couples -- including both of the final 2008 contenders for the nomination, then-Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Speaking as a gay man, that didn't sway me from supporting both of them.
Similarly, I'm highly skeptical that the attacks on Biden's past mistakes with regards to race will negate an unimpeachable fact: our nation's first black president was able to reconcile them, so why on earth wouldn't the electorate as a whole do so as well? (Most of all in a race against Donald Trump, of all people.)
3
"For his part, Mr. Sanders defended his agenda with plain enthusiasm. " - I do not agree with that assessment. I think he defended his agenda in a myopic, bullying and angry way. He lost any support I might have felt for his views.
2
Harris made a cheap shot at Biden? Depends on your perspective. She did challenge him, pointedly, and it was a good lesson for him that he needs to sharpen up before trump really lays into him with his verifiably lying, misanthropic ways. Trump has coarsened the discourse in politics. It’s going to take pointed zingers to take him out. No more playing defense; offense is the rule of the day. The candidates who can handle him are Buttigieg, Harris, and Warren. They are also the candidates who can hit him where it hurts while simultaneously leading America back to normalizing public civility again.
And Democrats must vociferously counter the Republican message that fellow Americans are the enemy.
It is emblematic of the Democrats’ troubles that nobody will say out loud that offering up a smart black woman as their Presidential nominee would be the surest way to get Trump re-elected.
It is not racist or misogynistic to say this. It is fact. But facts aren’t the Dems’ strongpoint any more than the Republicans.
2
I was very disappointed in Kamala Harris. If someone is a racist or said something racist then call them out but neither is true here. In my opinion she played the race card to score some political points. If she doesn't think Biden is a racist like she said then why attack him like that. I went back and looked at the remarks he made and she greatly mischaracterized them. All he said was at least there was a sense of civility in dealing with them across the aisle. I support Biden but I'm no longer sure who will be his best VP pick.
5
These attacks on Biden are naive and ill informed reflecting a lack of historical perspective especially about the civil rights movement in this country. Many east coast liberals did not become involved in civil rights until very late in the game. Sadly the issue of civil rights was not part of the political landscape for years- President Lyndon Johnson succeeded in passing civil rights legislation by working with Southern segregationists too, in both parties. They all probably played golf together too at clubs that did not allow Jews, African Americans or Irish Catholics. The Dems need to Defeat Trump.
Bill Maher has the right idea. He said only Oprah can defeat Trump because she will get better ratings that the host of The Apprentice.
Then we can say You’re fired and Adios at the same time.
3
What is lost in the headlong charge to the left is the interests of the citizen taxpayer. Free care, free college, free stuff, yet not a nod to the cost to be borne by the once-blue voters. It only took two nights to eliminate twenty candidates from any thinking citizen's list.
8
@OldEngineer
Tax the overly wealthy. It's way past time. Free college only for lower class and reduce college costs for middle class. The wealthy can afford college for their children.
1
Ms. Kamala Harris’s attacks on Vice President Joe Biden inadvertently exposes the Democratic Party’s racist, segregationist past. But Ms. Harris intentionally omit to say that those “segregationists” were Democrats. Historically Democratic Party is indeed the party of slavery, genocide and bigotry. Back in the days of slavery, all 3,999, 532 African slaves (1860 US Census) were and owned by the Democrats! It was a Republican President Lincoln who set them free. Fredrick Douglass was Republican. Harriet Tubman was a gun-owning Republican. Dr. Martin Luther King was a Republican. Does Ms. Harris realize that the modern founder of the Democratic Party, President Andrew Jackson systematically displaced and forcibly removed from Native Americans from their homelands and causing a genocide─ known as the “Trail of Tears?” What about President Roosevelt’s internment of Japanese Americans? Just like Ms. Harris, a Democratic Presidential candidate George Wallace-- famously said, “Segregation today! Segregation tomorrow! Segregation forever! Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton in attendance, President Bill Clinton who gave the eulogy at Democratic Virginia Sen. Byrd’s funeral said, “To be a Democrat those days you have to be a Klan member! The dead man was a high ranking member in his days. In contrast, remember that the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act and Affirmative Action were all Republican legislation. And almost all Democrats voted against them.
4
@ChandraPrince, thank you for your remarkable recitation of Republican propaganda. Apparently you are oblivious to 20th century American history. Today's Republican Party is not the party of Lincoln, as hard as they try to hide behind that deception. Nor is today's Democratic Party the Dixie-crat party of the Jim Crow South. You demonstrate an admirable grasp of selected historical facts but ignore today's obvious political truths. The moral void that allows the blatant misrepresentation of our political history is fortunately obvious to anyone likely to read your comments here.
3
Kamala’s attack on Biden bothered me. It was disingenuous and, like Corey Booker’s attack, felt like race baiting.
Do either of them actually believe Biden is a racist?
They twisted his words into a personal affront that simply didn’t happen.
14
On the issue of Medicare-for-all those candidates who support this will obviously have to pivot back to the center and give people a choice. Political candidates do this all the time when going from primary to general elections. If not they will lose.
3
The rising star is Liz Warren, rising in the polls and commentary.
She won the debate beforehand by putting out detailed, ingenious policy plans tackling the issues, while winning hearts with her authenticity throughout her career and in town halls sparkled across the country.
2016 the Dem establishment wasn't ready yet for a progressive. Today it still holds a grudge against Bernie for the tremendous fight he put up, while (except for the many corporate tools in it) increasingly capitulating to his formidably perceptive policy agenda. Meanwhile some who sided with Clinton over Sanders have moved on to promote Warren (over Biden), Paul Krugman and Nicholas Kristof among them. Whether that's strategic (gauging the potential desertion by purist voters rejecting Biden to exceed the moderates who'd shun Warren), or covert tactics hoping to split the progressive vote so Biden will clinch the nomination, or, as I think, largely authentic, nothing has given me more hope in a long time than this shift of the Dem establishment's tectonic plates.
It is said a woman has to be twice as good to reap half a man's rewards. In this case a man has paved her way and a joint effort with strong input from many magnificent men helped the woman to the absolutely winning reputation: she has a plan for that!
In this case we see a mass shift in the polls co-thanks to men (selflessly) recognizing the male candidate better be replaced now there is an equally great woman advancing the good causes.
2
I'd rather have and old grey muzzled black lab like Biden curled up in the corner of oval office with a crack young competent staff of his choosing around him than a younger pit bull chewing on microphones and lunging at everything that moves.
16
time for this country to move beyond Old WMD ( white male domination ) issues.
3
@Scooter. Time for people who think it's outrageous to speak harshly against Blacks, immigrants, gays, to give the same consideration to a white guy or gal. Such hypocrisy.
5
After watching two nights of these debates and knowing that one of these 20 individuals will take on Donald Trump, all I can say is this:
DEMOCRATS: DO NOT SCREW THIS UP!
Donald Trump's approval rating has hovered around 40 percent (currently 42ish) for most of his term thus far. If we cannot oust him from the White House, it will NOT be because the American people want him to stay. It will be because we (Democrats and others who want Trump OUT) failed to run a smart campaign. Our single paramount goal must be to put a Democrat back in the Oval Office.
Please, Democrats, do not screw this up!
124
@Marie S Overcoming the ego of each would-be is a monumental task. They seem more motivated by self aggrandizement than service to our country, witness Hillary Clinton.
3
@W. Ogilvie Putin's poodle would not have won without serious campaign corruption. I witness misogyny in your reply for HRC was the best and cheated by Russians.
2
@Marie S
It's easy not to screw this up. Everybody has to get out and vote. It's that simple. Turnout in 2016 was low, and Trump eked out an Electoral College win only across three states only, and by a small margin at that.
Quibble now over who will be the candidate but when all is said and done, go vote.
1
The author got it wrong. It's not "eliminating private health care in America", it's eliminating private health insurance. It's called single-payer, not single-provider. It's the difference between the British National Health Service and the single-payer system in France in which most doctors work in private practices.
I don't even support trying to do it here but for crying out loud get the facts straight!
9
Warren is my choice clearly a Woman in the White House is the way forward. Harris is too Black for the majority electorate (read white voters)
Biden is done
3
@Thrasher
And if Harris, or Booker or Pete or Biden, is the nominee, who gets your vote?
@Franco51
Pete is out of his element on Race
Booker is no leader
Biden is inept
Harris is a novice
I not sure this lot will get the nomination
My post from 4 hours ago is still in the ether, so here we go again.
Sen Harris looked sharp as did Sen Booker the previous night. Biden looked like an old man in his manner and involvement-his days as an imaginary "front runner" are numbered.
The tone of the writing here and MSNBCs coverage shows those who cover politics for a living do not like Senator Sanders nor does the bi-coastal donor class. Bernie is not far left unless you are a Republican as he follows the tradition of FDR, Truman, JFK, and LBJ- all well-known socialists and non-Democrats.
The best line of the night is when Sen Harris pushed back on the question about paying for new or expanded programs by pointing out that the media said little when GOP and Trump cut corporate taxes and that of the wealthy- which would include every one of the hosts asking questions at the debate. The media class should really take a look at their attitude- their economic class and interest shows in the coverage.
4
From these debates, for me, the field is narrowed. I'd like to see a debate featuring Warren, Castro, Harris, Buttigieg, Klobacher, and Sanders. Mostly the first four there, but I want to hear a bit more from the last two.
2
@AJ
I didn’t care for the look Buttigieg gave Swalwell in the exchange about the Indiana shooting.
Harris is living in a glass house and is vulnerable, thanks to her less than stellar record as a prosecutor and AG regarding the truth. The NYT link below provided information that made me question her integrity, and therefore viability as a candidate. “Time after time, when progressives urged her to embrace criminal justice reforms as a district attorney and then the state’s attorney general, Ms. Harris opposed them or stayed silent. Most troubling, Ms. Harris fought tooth and nail to uphold wrongful convictions that had been secured through official misconduct that included evidence tampering, false testimony and the suppression of crucial information by prosecutors.” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/kamala-harris-criminal-justice.html
23
And Biden did well, held his own against attacks and will still improve I think. More than that, he is reasonable, experienced, and can beat trump. More than that - he will be a good president - a real president, and he is the only one there I can say that of. Bernie is an overbearing nut. pete, was okay, Harris is a shabby and fractious. Biden's age should be seen as a benefit. The Presidency is not the job for a young person. I know Americans hate old folks, that ageism is the final -ism to be addressed, that we're all afraid of dying, but it's time to grow up, isn't it?
6
Amazing. Open borders, Medicare for all and you lose your existing plan, illegal immigrants get health coverage, it went on and on. Trump might just win again. 😉.
19
The ‘debate’ confirmed for Middle America that Democrats and so-called ‘progressives’ deep down always did want a Castro as president.
Too bad for the nation that Castro is Fidel, not Julian.
(Better start planning for 2024, folks.)
14
Republicans want a return to Jim Crow and a theocracy where the Bible not the Constitution is the law of the land.
Republicans want a country where undocumented immigrants who have been here 20 plus years and who have American children die in the street because of the color of their skin.
Basically Republicans want apartheid where the majors ruled over by a racist minority.
3
It was a stunning, telling moment for the former vice-president and perhaps a revealing and liberating moment for the struggling California senator.
Kamala Harris, in my opinion, had been doing well in this second debate. She had taken the initiative and the lead, distancing herself from Mr. Biden and from Bernie Sanders who, in retrospect, played the role not of visionary but of relic.
After several black politicians gave Mr. Biden a pass for his embrace of James Eastland and Herman Talmadge, two former Confederate senators who stood in the Senate's door against any civil rights advancements for black citizens, Ms. Harris just destroyed the notion that "bygones will be bygones."
"It was hurtful." This is a signature moment in this 2020 campaign and it blew the lid off the boiling pot of congeniality that the ex-vice president had worn since he announced. It was something that needed to be said. Although his anti-busing stance in the 1970's did not disqualify him from becoming Barack Obama's running mate, Mr. Biden had not sufficiently addressed the question as to why he had collegial dealings with two men whose presence in the Senate were because of their views on race.
It was a clumsy--and perhaps fatal--attempt by Mr. Biden to prove that he has a working history with people whose politics he does not share. But it didn't come off that way. And his smiling dismissal of his past has now caught up with him.
He left that door open. And Ms. Harris walked right through it.
66
His response should have been: “Would you have refused to work with them and give up hope of getting something done for your constituents?” Because that’s the exact issue; not whether someone’s feelings were hurt. They didn’t practice this at home? Oy.
1
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18. The anti-busing thing? He was right to oppose it. Hasn't worked. You don't rip children from their neighborhoods and think you're doing the right thing. What you're saying by doing that is esessentily that blacks need more white children in their schools to push them to achieve, cause they don't have the - what?- to do it without whites there.
Agree. Biden had shared this story with his inner circle and had been told not to share it publicly. He is both arrogant and stubborn and responsible for the result.
I am struck by the number of posts critical of Harris. Thanks to Sen. Harris for speaking the painful truth.
2
If indeed black voters are the key to a Demoratic victory, then Biden and Mayor Pete are toast. Biden's unimpressive legislative record and his inability to defend working with the likes of James Eastland and Strom Thurmond shows his ability to hurt black America for generations past and present. Black voters witnessed this Achilles heel firsthand last night. And we won't forget! And Mayor Pete already had a tough road to woo the black electorate. The black church is homophobic, witness their abandonment of the AIDS crisis in the black community. The black church will never endorse gay marriage, and by not purusing that angle, the NYT and other liberal outlets are showing their bias. The police shooting in South Bend also doomed his candidacy, and his advisors clearly have no clue on how to overcome those hurdles.
6
If the Democrats nominate Harris, Trump is a slam dunk.
13
we taxpayers should pay for healthcare for people who are here illegally???? and anyone who approaches the border should be released and come back to court for a hearing?? i just dont get it. how in god's name is this sane or sensible??
and then they wonder why the illegals are rushing in???
19
We pay for the upkeep of grandiose monuments to Confederate racists. I’d rather spend my money on helping people who actually contribute something to this country instead of honoring traitors.
3
@Ari Weitzner, but don’t forget all the money illegal immigrants are paying into social security to keep Medicare for all solvent for all of us from their wages, they’ve earned it. Never mind payment is always only in cash, they have their accountants makes sure their share gets to Washington, I’m sure.
1
How on earth do they put money into social security when they can’t work legally? They get jobs off the books and thus never pay taxes. It’s tax evasion they commit...
JUST IN: Kamala Harris clarifies her stance on private insurance
http://hill.cm/6y7aLk1
This is the second time she issued this "clarification". Strange...
3
If you were around in the early to mid part of Biden’s career, I doubt you would be thinking what a great guy he is. He is a blue dog democrat, and he is too old.
3
The big loser last night, it was Biden, who continually was on the verge of mis-speaking and catching himself, like he has either mental problems or is too focused on listening to a voice in his ear-bud coaching him on what to say, and, worse, was overtly proud of damage he did to the USA, thinking we wouldn't know the truth.
Who Won Democratic Debates?
That's easy...
On the first night, Warren and Gabbard were the top two, and I think Gabbard won it because she had a few "break-out" moments, like telling that idiot that no, the Taliban did not attack us on 9/11/01.
On the second night, it was Bernie for properly - and consistently - pointing to the real causes of our pain as well as what to do about it. Sander’s response to Biden on foreign policy was nice:
“SANDERS: One of the differences — one of the differences that Joe and I have in our record is Joe voted for that war, I helped lead the opposition to that war, which was a total disaster.
Second of all, I helped lead the effort for the first time to utilize the War Powers Act to get the United States out of the Saudi-led intervention in Yemen, which is the most horrific humanitarian disaster on Earth. I will do everything I can to prevent a war with Iran, which would be far worse than disastrous war with Iraq.”
5
Please God almighty have the Democrat Party nominate Kamala Harris. Please. She is angry, rude and as abrasive and unwelcome as sandpaper underwear. She will provide President Trump his 1984 Reagan landslide victory and 3 more SCOTUS pics. Those pics will relegate the Chief Justice to what he is: a liberal in conservative clothing and a traitor to intellectual honesty.
I double dog dare you to nominate Kamala Harris. He record is as poor as was the production value of the Apprentice. Her career started with Willie Brown’s Willie and ended with her attacking a great American, former VP Biden.
Please nominate her. Please. Trump will reform this nation, enforce the border and build the wall. Thank you liberals! We can always count on your defaulting to group think and racial politics. Thank you for that. Who needs diversity? Democrats; try thinking about freedoms and American values, not just colors, sexual orientations or how many genders humans have. Hint; it is TWO.
10
@EWGI
Sen. Harris did nothing for survivors of sexual abuse by clergy.
She hid (and rumored to have destroyed) documents that could have been helpful for survivors to receive justice and hold sexual predators accountable.
She made accommodations and agreements with Cardinal Levada that assisted and supported the church coverup.
If interviewed, ask her to make public her agreements with the Church, which suggest an interest in protecting the church not the victims.
I go to LA every few months and it looks like Calcutta...the violence in the schools and streets and over crowding ....its shocking to see 3rd world conditions in the USA and no one is talking about it? People living under almost every underpass? How did that become normalized? How did people become habituated to this?
Harris record as a prosecutor withholding evidence, locking up brown, black people and strongly supporting the private prison industry is appalling!
3
I think all of us can assume that Ms. Harris has come a long way and battled very hard through all sorts of prejudices against her to become the person she is. Full credit to her. In that time leading to where she is, there should little doubt that she not only worked and collaborated with people she did not like for any variety of reasons, including their probable racist attitudes and comments towards her. Nevertheless, she persevered and won out in the end. All of us work with people we would rather not be with, don't like and wish weren't there, but we move on making the best of the situation for the greater good. That's life. We need to make the most of what we are given and I think Biden has done that. Harris' grandstanding has cost her my vote and fulfills the prediction of the Democratic Party shooting themselves in the foot and granting four more years to our wretched president.
114
@Mike
Harris comes from an extremely privileged background, and it shows.
27
Interesting that it’s is Sen. Harris’ “grandstanding” that has turned you off. I was much more put off by VP Biden’s obvious lack of preparedness and self-reflection.
6
She comes from a ‘privileged’ background, yet was bussed? Why?
1
Kamala Harris was my #2 after Joe Biden. Last night she moved to my #0.
211
Are you zero-indexing (and thus she's at the top of your list), or do you mean to say you wouldn't vote for her?
16
@Observer
Cass is saying she won't sell here in the Midwest. And she won't.
16
@Cass Benoit
I thought Biden and Harris would be an easy winning ticket. But clearly Ms Harris wants to start with the top job. Seems a mistake to me. After 4 years as VP she would be in great position to win the presidency in 2024. At this time, my women friends and I, all retired, are very hesitant to chance a Trump win by running a woman at the top of the ticket. Our very democracy is at stake.
9
It’s kind of interesting to watch the Dems eat their own. Trump will walk away with the election. Can you just imagine what this country would be with one of those extremists in office?
31
@TravelingProfessor yes, I can imagine a country where everyone has access to healthcare and other basic needs such as food and shelter. Wondering what your problem is with this?
11
@TravelingProfessor Well, there's an extremist in office right now.
10
@TravelingProfessor Extremists? What exactly are they proposing that is so extreme? Medicare for all? What insurance does every senior citizen in the U.S, carry and LOVE? Oh, yeah the extremist insurance. Remember the good old days when you had decent benefits for your hard work? Proposing to replace them because the private sector says they are too poor to, refuses to, and then pockets ALL the money from your hard work....that is extremist? Ah, yes....you prefer things just the way they are and expanding on that. Widening income inequality, having lots of people without adequate health care, child care, education, and retirement. Creating a two tier society of the haves and have nots with nothing in between.....That's what you have always dreamed about? Stop drinking the Republican Kool Aid. What would you call their 'plan' to fix these problems? The words extremist and cruel come to mind.
10
Ms Harris made a huge error in attacking Joe Biden on his busing stance. He is correct that these are issues that are rightfully, constitutionally, left to local school boards to decide, not the Department of Education.
Joe Biden was simply stating that he knows how to work with political opponents to get things moving. Many times those negotiations lead to an appreciation of the views and values of the other side. Friendships and respect can be forged despite opposing views. Compromises are made. Things get actually done.
It's high time Ms Harris and most of those seething Democrats on both nights listened and learned from him. In my opinion, her being "hurt" by working with opponents of busing was more of a negative reflection on her character than his.
And, hey, if they listen and learn, maybe Democrats will actually even get something done!
230
@Anne No busing should never be left to "local" control in relation to racism. If that were the case then the south would be a separate country with slavery still being the foundation of their economy. Therefore you believe that states have the right to enslave people...
48
@Michael Grove--Bussing was never the goal, it was means to achieve an end--desegregation.
There were other means to achieve this objective--magnet school, etc.
The goal was required by the courts, but locals should have a say in the means to this end.
14
@Anne I don't think it was a mistake. She showed that policy positions really do have a profound effect on people.
As far as Democrats needing to "learn" from him, well I'm not sure Biden ever had the gravitas to be a true leader.
20
Free healthcare for all illegals.
That just won President Trump’s re-election.
20
I would have liked to have seen one question worded differently: “ Show if hands- how many are in favor of free healthcare and no deportation for those who sneak into our country or are found by a judge to be ineligible for asylum?” This issue is handing the election to Trump.
11
These debates are a curiosity but are not important enough to command this much media. The people aren’t paying attention.
1
What a great moment when Harris jumped in with a totally spontaneous and not pre-written zinger.
"Guys, America doesn't want to witness a food fight, they want to know how we're going to put food on their table"
( BTW, who are 'we' who are going to put food on their table?)
2
@areader, you are just one confident assertion away from having your critical thinking card revoked. That food fight line bares all the hallmarks of a pre-planned "zinger". It was not specific to any issue or candidate and simply required for 2 or more candidates to speak over each other. (Who could possibly have foreseen that?) Give Ms. Harris credit for deploying it skillfully. Awarding credit for spontaneous thought, seems naive.
1
@mike4vfr,
"(Who could possibly have foreseen that?)"
Sorry, I cannot tell whether you're serious or not. It was predicted in all media for weeks. Kamala Harris is beautiful but she is not a Dorothy Parker.
(And once more: who are 'we' who are going to put food on their table?)
Mrs Harris's sharp tongue has never been in doubt. Unfortunately, her career as a public servant, including as our junior senator, is far less impressive. Always she has biting comments to appeal to her audience, but never has she provided results she advocates. (The Democrat's version Trump but without the hatreds.)
9
Why are all the microphones on? Why not one at a time? NBC could control who talks and not have a messy "debate".
7
I liked Harris' performance up to that point. Her remarks to Biden were unnecessary and manipulative. Was it because he has more Black support than she has? Was it because it was an easy attack? Or neither of these? I hope she and Biden can work things out as I do believe a Biden-Harris ticket would be a winner!
4
Kamala Harris is handing the election to Trump. Her personality negatives swamp those of Clinton. By attacking Biden instead of debating issues she is showing her true self. Many including myself could never vote for her. Two bad choices if it comes down to her
8
Kamala Harris is being attacked for being forceful. Yet Trump is not only forceful, he's mean-spirited, angry, a liar, and a sexual predator. But somehow it's OK to elect him precisely because he's forceful and mean, while it's not OK to elect a woman who is forceful and forthright? That's sexism in a nutshell. Democrats have been wringing their hands over finding a candidate who can go toe to toe with Trump, and yet when we find them, we're repelled by their personalities? Get over your stereotyping. Right here in these comments I've read the words "hectoring," "shrill," and "nagging" attached to Harris -- again, more misogynist language from people who call themselves liberals. Politics right now are not about reaching across the aisle and shaking hands with Republican men who have no intention of ever cooperating with the rest of us. Politics right now is about getting this minority-elected administration out of power and restoring some semblance of fairness to the electoral system by legislating to negate Citizens' United, the SCOTUS gerrymandering decision, and the anti-civil rights, anti-woman movement.
1
No Hope and No Change Biden couldn't wait for the timer to go off so he could stop speaking and just sit there smiling. He's a reactionary and empty vessel.
3
Busing? The argument here is that Joe Biden was supposed to have full throated, unwavering support for busing 46 years ago?
Busing was an abject failure of liberal policy. It helped firmly swing the electorate into an entrenched conservative mindset due to unbridled government overreach in a foolhardy attempt to force integrated outcomes on a society that was not on board with such methods being used on their children.
Would Kamala Harris like to come out and tell the country that she's going to reinstate Busing as President since it's so wonderful? If she does so as the nominee, we're going to lose this election in a bigger landslide than Reagan-Mondale in 1984.
Let's please try to have a debate back on Planet Earth next time.
13
Just like the last go round, The NY Times all but totally ignores Bernie Sanders. That didn't work out so well for the democrats and the country in 2016. Will your strategy be again to ignore him until you can no longer and then just dismiss him and his ideas through the convention?
10
Two thoughts. This way of doing debates is a like shooting fish in a barrel. Its purpose seems to be get rid of most of the candidates, many of whom are good leaders or very knowledgeable in a certain area, but are not telegenic. I'm not sure it's really fair to the candidates, but I suppose becoming president isn't a fair process. It should be more than how you appear in sound bites, however. Two, the only male candidates I would consider are Buttigieg and Bernie, who is brilliant, but looking fatigued, or Harris or Warren. Harris did make her points against Biden. She would probably be an excellent negotiator who close the deal unlike Trump or Kushner, the dark horse with the everything brief. I still think Warren is the strongest candidate for president.
2
@Dr. Conde
The “only” males you “would consider “ are Pete and Bernie. You seem to imply that Harris and Warren are the only females you would consider.
What if the nominee is, for instance, Biden or Booker? Or Klobuchar? Will you then support that nominee? Or will you stay home? Vote third party? Either of those last possibilities only work to ensure more Trump.
2
These candidates are going to shoot their own foot if all their focus is all about taking down Biden. If they REALLY care about whatever is left with our Democracy, they'd be going after TRUMP full blast. Biden is not the enemy and he is NOT racist.
8
I have been a fan of Joe Biden for many years. In 2007, I desperately wanted him to gain traction and win the Democratic nomination. It quickly became clear, however, that he did not have the skills to offset Barack Obama, or even Hillary Clinton for that matter. He never was a serious challenger, mostly because he was never able to seriously challenge.
I am afraid that last night's debate exposed the very same thing. He seemed unprepared, his answers never really drove home any cogent points, and he was constantly referencing his past. Side by side with these other candidates, it occurred to me that his days as an influential politician are over. He lacked energy and fire, and even the ability to make clear arguments. He was far too acquiescent and polite...qualities that will not serve him well head-to-head with Trump. Biden has been an able statesman, and has earned a very respectable place in American political history. Regrettably, last night leads me to believe it is time for him to withdraw, go home, and enjoy the rewards of a well-lived political life. It is time for the new blood to lead.
9
Harris was very Trump-like, providing criticisms rather than leadership. Biden was VP for the first black president of these United States, and was surely acceptable then to Democrats and voters. His record was out there then. What has changed? What has changed is that it is easier (and gets more press) now just to criticize about the past rather than lead on one's own merits for the future. To me, her performance was disappointing, and should be an embarrassment to Democrats. Let's see true leaders with real
vision and real solutions to solve today's problems. Ditch the pandering.....
11
These media events are not necessarily the best gauge of a good presidential candidate. I prefer people who listen, rather than shout over everybody else, and who take time to think before they speak. Neither of those attributes was on display last night.
9
Kamala pulled out her race card at the first opportunity and tediously badgered Biden personally. I was for her as a front runner but clearly she needs to focus on economic, climate and social issues and leave the faux outrage behind. That kind of performance will definitely give trump another term.
Disappointing.
15
Voters who were not around in the 70's should know that school bussing was popular with almost no one even in northern states. Very few parents, black or white, wanted to put their first graders on a bus when the neighborhood school was blocks away. And, more importantly, bussing didn't accomplish the goal... school desegregation. Schools are even more segregated now than then. At this point in time, quibbling about bussing is just beating a dead horse. The candidates should try to propose a better solution.
12
I like Kamala Harris, but her bringing up Joe Biden’s comments about working in the Senate with segregationists seemed like a political ploy in the context of what was being discussed in the debate. She forced the issue just to score political points. And if you personally take offense at the comments of someone in your own party, you probably don’t have a thick enough skin to weather everything that’s going to come your way as President.
12
My takeaway about Kamala Harris, whom I wanted to continue to like, fell apart at last night's debate. She went from sounding like an intelligent, seasoned and professional black woman to a loud and whining black woman in a cat fight. We've all had misdeeds against us personally or as a group, some worse than others. But last night's stage wasn't about going back to race relations and those injustices... there was so much more to talk about. Harris was stuck on this. Is that what we'd get if she became president? She fell from grace last night and revealed a woman with a whole lot of anger anger anger. We don't need another angry president.
13
Who cares that she’s black or a woman? The incessant focus by Democrats on race turns many people off. As a person, she is an awful candidate
7
@HGW to "toxic, tearful and terrible" in regards to Harris, please add "shamefully calculating". The whole attack on Biden was prepared (as was the "food fight" zinger) and she was just waiting for the moment to rip him on his record from 40 years ago, ignoring the distinction he made between federal and local governments (but anyway ...). As I heard on NPR this a.m., her team/crew had a t-shirt with the photo of her as a child, "That little girl was me" all ready to sell on her website. Talk about calculating. Let the media gush over her "break out" moment and then let's get back to reality and how to beat trump. Who wants a finger-pointing, weed-whacker wielding prosecutorial scold for a president?
(though Biden is fully "gaffinated" and could have expressed his willingness to "work across the aisle" with some different examples. John McCain comes to mind.)
13
I'm torn about the Biden/Harris interchange. Harris had to bring it up; her own dignity and the dignity of black Americans demanded it. I thought Biden's rebuttal was smooth and smoothly delivered. Purely rhetorically, it was not a stumble - and despite the Times' criticism, I'm telling you right now that it won't have looked like a stumble to voters predisposed to support Joe.
But nevertheless, his answer was unsatisfying at a deeper level. It was a good-enough-for-the-brawl answer, not a real response. I can only hope that real response is coming from Biden, possibly in a written format unconstrained by time, where he can say what he must obviously think given the history of the matter: That he was constrained by what was politically possible and could not get his first choice of solutions (indeed, his position was the opposite of what he campaigned on back then). That Harris was, as she herself emphasized, a little girl when this happened, not someone tasked with prying any forward motion out of racists deeply opposed to it.
This is a deep issue, touching on many important aspects of race: People's fear for their children's well-being, knowing they have one shot at raising them, bounded by time; the difficulty of trust when there is so much pain and evil in America's past; the evolution of individual conscience.
This is Biden's "Pastor Wright issue," and he should meet it with a speech worthy of Obama's speech on race.
And if he is nominated, Harris should be his VP.
1
People should be encouraged to look further into Kamala Harris's record as a prosecutor. It is riddled with compromises she made to further own career, regardless of the notion of preserving justice. Last night was no exception. She was clearly coached to attack the front runner, exaggerating facts to benefit her own advancement. Maybe this is politics as usual, but her style and her transparent self-advancing politician attitude completely turns me off. She can't be compared to Hillary Clinton - they are not in the same league. How in the world would she defeat Trump? she would turn off even more general election voters and hand Trump a huge win. Democrats, please be smart this time - get the middle of the country back on your side.
15
What a disaster! If we continue on like this, we will be seeing Trump for 6 more years, and Pence for 8 years; at which point we will all be wishing we could re-purpose Superboy's little rocket and make our way to Krypton.
8
@MDB: Yes, typical Biden to think he would be accepted without question. He thought he’d sail through this process by relying on his grin and eager, sometimes too, pats on the back. As Swalwell said, it’s time for a new generation.
6
Black America has forgotten the crack epidemic that once plagued their communities. It spawned an urban crime wave as addicts sought cash to feed their addiction. There was a national outcry to stop it. The term “crack babies” was coined to describe addicted newborns.
Legislators (for once) responded to these calls for action with harsh punishment. Like his colleagues, Biden responded by passing the crime bill.
5
In 2 days there wasn't one question about Iran to the candidates. Why? There is not even any mention in the news of what was a top story a few days ago.
5
Because it’s not as important as talking about bussing?
So weird. No one liked bussing. The local school was much more convenient. Nowadays you see people inconveniencing themselves far more by driving their kids to school every single day,- and it must be a special school a magnet school the best school for the best child ever!
Why not return to the notion of neighborhood public schools all of superior quality? The kids can walk there and have friends in the neighborhood and make their own social arrangements, solve their own disputes and grow up into adults who can do the same?
Isn’t it time to do away with the notion of children as expensive luxury pets, exclusively for those who can afford them?
There's a rash of comments that Bernie & Biden are too old. Those comments must be coming from people who themselves feel too old. Funny, but all the young people in my family are still behind Bernie. The chameleons testing the wind for economic positioning are almost laughable; candidates for instance who have "evolved" on healthcare in the last two weeks before the "debates."
There is only one person who made very clear his stance decades ago on progressive issues in regard to labor, education, healthcare & the environment. That person is Bernie Sanders.
5
Kamala Harris just lost my respect and my vote with her self-serving and weak race baiting attack on Biden, a proven performer. If that pathetic, tired and tiresome dividing trope is her only weapon against a strong politician and a man of character such as Biden, I hope she fails miserably. Our great nation does not need her vicious and false rhetoric, it is suffering from too much of that already from Trump. I cannot personally stomach another political candidate with actual character and skills being crucified in the manner of Hillary Clinton, for this to come from Democrats against one of their own is just sickening to me.
17
Harris was truly impressing me. She was until she started playing lawyer and mud-slinging the front-running candidate. Don't think for a minute that she didn't know what she was doing; building herself up by putting cross hairs on the front-runner. She was not the only one who did that. Shame.
That's just plain stupid and harmful to the attempt to get Trump and the Republicans out and saving our democracy. Tell me what you are planning to do; I'm all over that.
I'm still not decided. Harris looked very good in the beginning. It was a very serious miss step to go after Uncle Joe. Harris came off as vicious and vindictive.
17
In Wisconsin, Tony Evers won by not taking the bait from Scott Pothole
Walker. Wisconsin voted for a mature man, 70 + , who showed he cared about healthcare, roads, and the environment. The Republican strategy of diverting from real issues with fake issues failed. Harris is strong and intelligent but we will not win by focusing on desegregating the schools with busing. That failed because of white flight to the suburbs. In Wisconsin, the Republicans uses the issue of voucher schools as an issue saying it was unfair to blacks in MIlwaukee. They used the blacks as a trojan horse so they could push vouchers for all schools,. Now rich white people can send their children to white schools that can put up barriers to black children and get the state to pay for it. Harris you are pushing the wrong issue. The real issue is income inequality, lack of healthcare, and tax cuts that only favor the rich. Trump wants the election to focus on race. His whole presidency is based on racism, blame the latinos, blame the blacks, and get the white racist to come out and vote so he can continue to fleece America and sell us out to the Russians. Harris I wanted to vote for you because we need a strong black vote to win., We do not need a vote that brings out the white racists. Harris has lost my vote. We need a winner not a zealot. Biden has a strong record of supporting blacks, latinos, and Yes Old White men for years. We need a winner. Biden can win the rust belt , Florida, and Texas.
3
Did anyone else notice Biden’s slightly amused expression when Marianne Williamson first spoke, (after she was finally recognized by the moderators)? His expression really bothered me. It was haughty and slightly sarcastic.
This country needs to do a whole lot better than Biden! Too much baggage!
4
If the democrats advocate the following, I’m staying home on election day—
1. Taking away my private employer based insurance (just simply offer a public option choice and increase subsidies on the exchange—that’s all you have to do—keep it simple)
2. Making overstaying a travel visa or crossing the border illegally have what amounts to a “slap on the wrist” civil penalty—you just invite more illegal behavior
3. You can tell me your plans to increase immigration levels or provide a pathway for citizenship, but don’t tell me you are going to put hundreds of thousands of poor illegal Central Americans on medicaid, which is free and paid for by the American taxpayer.
4. After watching last night, what you told the nation is that if you cross the border illegally, you haven’t committed a crime, your children get enrolled in public school at a cost to me of between $6000-$10000 per child (already happens) and now you are going to ask me to pay the Medicaid premiums for 1,200,000 poor illegal border crossers each year.
I won’t vote for Trump, but I won’t vote for you either. These policy positions will be a glide path to re-elect Donald Trump.
The dumbest policy positions I’ve ever heard if your goal is to beat Donald Trump.
17
Andrew Yang says his microphone was 'not on' at times during Democratic debate
But at least the organizers forgot to turn off the Marianne Williamson's mike.
4
A slight clarification is needed -- the candidates did not support getting rid of private health *care* but private health *insurance*. That is an important distinction, especially when Republicans are eager to spread the misperception that under Medicare for All or Medicare for America, people would got the doctor at DMV-style offices.
3
Joe Biden needed to be forced to defend his sketchy record. As of now I would hold my nose and vote for him over Trump, but he seems to repeatedly land on the wrong side of civil and women's right debates.
I believe that the phenomena that happened to Clinton in the 2016 election will happen Harris. Being quiet will make her invisible, but fighting tough will earn her scorn from working men.
The democratic party needs to move forward. Biden is just not it. There will be no reform. Republicans are NOT going to work with him and young voters are not going to be inspired by him.
3
Focusing on "social justice" and personal grievance is a losing strategy in this climate. Warren is head-and-shoulders the best of the bunch. Brilliant, laser-focused and just as important, decent.
Ms. Harris just lost the possibility of my vote. Her offensive against Biden was based upon politics and social circumstances of 40-years ago. She should be intelligent enough to know that all politicians must work within the parameters of their era, as she has done in California. Her theatrics were little more than self-aggrandizing drama, and we already have a misguided dramatist in the White House.
20
A spectacle with a lot of heat and little light. Strutting and fretting on the stage. Soon to be heard no more.
2
Kamala Harris strikes me as the typical politician. She is good at dishing it out; let's see if she can take it as well as Biden. I would vote for her if she was the nominee, but I hope it's not her. There is something not sincere or genuine about her.
11
Regardless whether one supports or opposes ideas put forth by Bernie Sanders, he has already proven himself utterly unfit to be president.
The president is the top executive of the federal government. It is his responsibility to oversee government operations to make them perform their functions properly and efficiently. Bernie Sanders displayed his woeful total inadequacy to perform those tasks effectively when he was chairman of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee and utterly refused to recognize and to exert control over the VA to stop its institutionalized practices that were effectively killing very sick veterans by refusing to provide timely medical care.
4
Kamala Harris's attack on Joe Biden was shrill and rude--a gotcha moment. That exchange left a bad taste for me, and dampened my enthusiasm for Ms. Harris. There's no need to use bullying Trump tactics to get a point across, and I deplore going backwards to complain against the evils of segregation.
All ten candidates had to deal with an awkward format which didn't provide any candidate adequate time to answer questions, but most of them showed enough self discipline to try.
Our TV service provider in our part of Arizona claims to have had a "pole" problem, so no one in our area was able to view the two debates on TV. Given the nature of the times we're in, I couldn't help but wonder.
12
I see no moral difference between today’s GOP and yesterday’s segregationists. So working with the GOP is morally no different than dealing with segregationists.
But how can we have effective Democratic leadership in Washington if they refuse to negotiate or work with the GOP?
4
Hickenlooper is correct. Any Democratic candidate that identifies as a Socialist has no chance of defeating Trump. The word itself has negative connotations to voters that don't even know what the word means. U.S. citizens in general do not consider our country a Socialist country.
11
Harris is opposed to racism. But age discrimination/profiling--she has no problem supporting that.
12
So Biden is being attacked because he said he has been able to work with people he disagreed with, even segregationists and he's being obliquely accused of not doing enough to support civil rights, even though none of the candidates thinks he's a racist and agree that he has an outstanding record of supporting and advancing civil rights legislation. Biden has to deserve the nomination like everyone else, but these attacks on his record just seem to me to be cheap shots, although the concerns about his age are relevant. Be assured that Trump is listening to these attacks and will bring them up during the campaign, whoever the nominee is. Democrats would do better to emphasize why they're the best qualified rather than attacking Biden or each other.
10
The problem for Kamala Harris, like any misandrist with an axe to grind, she’s scarier for many men than Donald Trump. Mainly, because people generally with a lot of ‘tude and an axe in their demeanor and conversations tend to be intimidating. Harris appeals to a minority of voters, all of them with opposing interests to one another. And Trump’s campaign licks their chops at an opportunity for adding voters by sharpening voter divisions.
6
Kamala Harris is good.
"Harris clarifies private insurance stance: 'No, no' I don't think it should be eliminated"
"clarifies"
Asked in an appearance on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" on Friday if she believed private insurance should be eliminated in the U.S., she clarified: "No, no. I do not."
Harris raised her hand Thursday night when the panel was asked by moderator Lester Holt who supported eliminating private insurance in favor of a government-run health care plan.
Harris and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) were the only candidates on the stage to raise their hands, but Harris said Friday she misunderstood the question.
"The question was would you give up for private insurance for that option and I said yes," Harris said Friday.
"You heard it differently than others then," a "Morning Joe" panelist replied.
"Probably, because that's what I heard," she said.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/450839-harris-clarifies-private-insurance-stance-no-no-i-dont-think-it-should-be
5
The first debate gave me hope again: A group of able, mostly passionate and very articulate Democrats, mostly supportive of each other, and working toward mostly the same progressive agenda. Willing and able to coordinate as a party to beat the menace in the WH.
The second debate made me very afraid: The extremely inarticulate and boring moderate (Biden) and a couple of his sidekicks (Hickenlooper) and the very very very one-note, well-intentioned Progressive (Bernie) taking up too much emotional space, while the more articulate Harris gave short shrift to presenting her own positions in order to attack Biden (somebody had to do it, I guess).
Buttigieg stood out as the only serious, able debater, but he likely has no chance, while Gillibrand was as tiresome and irritatingly self-righteous as ever.
I only hope the Party can see the difference in the two debates as a warning about what not to do and a message about what must be done:
Pick someone (two someones) full of fire, representing the full range of progressive ideas, someone articulate, with deep understanding of complex issues who thinks on her/his feet and is unafraid of DT. The older style will not do!
My picks, in order: Warren, Booker, Harris, Castro, Buttigieg.
6
No one thinks Joe Biden is a racist. His record on civil rights vindicates him. But the anecdote about getting along with segregationists was well intentioned and did show that he is capable of working across the aisle.
But it also showed how politically tone deaf he is and it is amazing that he had a week to prepare for Senator Harris‘s attack on this issue and he still wasn’t prepared.
He will still be the front runner but she looked like where the Democratic party is now and he looked like where the party was in the past.
4
I felt sympathy for him when Harris went on the attack. That being said, I agree, he should have had an answer ready. After last night, I could see Harris tipping Trump to shreds, Biden... not so much.
3
Let's have a debate with too many people and ignore Bernie. Oh yeah, let's put Bernie between Biden and Harris so that they'll have to talk over him when they fight about civil rights, and put that picture int he newspaper, Let's also include in the debate all of the ideas which Bernie has championed his entire life, and pretend like everyone was always on board with these ideas. Let's ask Bernie a benign question about the diversity of the field and not give him a chance to talk on the talking points which he originated decades ago. Then let's write an article about it and ignore Bernie again. Shame on all of you.
3
Fake centrists say they are the glue of kumbaya but in reality just declare themselves right and everyone else wrong. Real centrists listen. Then even have actual ideas, not just centrist-meta.
2
"What would you do on day one?" questions drive me nuts. I would commit my vote to the candidate who says, "On day one Trump tried to repeal Obamacare by Executive Order and failed. 'Day One' executive orders amount to showboating, and accomplish nothing but appease one's base."
All any president accomplishes on day one is to move into the White House, put their socks in a drawer and hang their suits in the closet. Policy? That takes time and negotiation. It takes temporarily forsaking some ideals to get other more important ones into law.
To call NBC's Political Cagefight a "debate" or call the hosts "moderators" is a joke. In a debate, participants are permitted to respond to charges leveled by others. Moderators are, ironically, required to moderate - to prevent food fights, not permit (or even encourage) them.
The cagefight format, where one punch or kick can take one's opponent down, is poison for political discourse. Example: to portray Biden as a segregationist based on one vote on an extremely complex issue trivializes the battles fought to get civil rights legislation through at all. Either Harris was taking a cheap shot, or revealing her lack of experience in crafting legislation. Neither were particularly flattering.
I wouldn't support Biden for other reasons, but to explain why would require more than the 500 characters I'm allotted here. Suffice to say: maybe no voter should cast her/his vote based on bumpersticker slogans and soundbites.
3
While the attacks provided some interesting notes, I was more concerned about Mr Biden's apparent difficulty in framing coherent sentences. A few times the words he was saying just didn't seem to make sense.
4
I will vote for the Dem candidate. If we and the candidates stick together, we win in 2020. Female or male. White or person of color. Progressive or Centrist. Old or young.
Having said that...
I feel Trump won in large part because HRC ignored the rust belt and went out of her way to insult working people. We need, in my opinion, someone who will do neither, and who will win back both to the Democratic Party.
Please, please, not Gillibrand. She did her grandstanding turn on Franken, while happily sharing her campaign stage with an accused rapist. She lined her pockets working for Big Tobacco as they lied about cancer and cigarettes. She was pro-gun when it wax expedient, and is now anti-gun since that is expedient. I can find reasons to be enthusiastic about nearly all the others in the race. But I don’t trust a word that she says.
6
I have not seen any major news station 'fact checking' Kamala Harris for intentionally mischaracterizing veep's word for political gain. Infact she has been hailed as a stand out performer. If it was Trump all the news media would have been 'fact checking' everything he said. Picking at them at calling him a liar.
6
Biden gifted Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court. An angry gift that keeps on giving. For that alone he should step down from consideration.
4
Kamala did excellent and as a woman, I loved her dominance in this discussion. If we are going to have a woman as president, we need someone that can be the right amount of aggressive. She is smart.
1
I like Biden. And I am not an ageist by a stretch. But I do feel that his approach is a bit out of touch with where our country is going. His " “I wanted it left up to local governments" response shows this. He isn't quick on his feet, and he has a roundabout, politician's way of answering (or not answering) questions. We need direct, to the point, solutions-oriented leaders to face the mountain of what ills our country right now.
I believe Warren came out ahead for both nights.
6
It was a cheap shot on Harris's part. Having said that, my gripe with Biden was when the candidates were asked to raise their hands to signal agreement on certain issues he seemed tentative as though he wanted to gage the "right" answer.
9
Harris is a woman with a forceful delivery. I believe all other candidates - including Joe Biden - will find the right tone/voice to respond to her. Her "food fight/food on the table" remark - which is mentioned in all commentary on the debate (slim pickings) - was rehearsed, scolding and just crowbarred in at a point when voices were raised. Medicare for all with no private option, reparations and all other "free" stuff will lose the election. Finally, I guess ageism is now allowed by both parties.
8
All of the candidates failed to be specific about what they would do to deal with the crisis at the border.
Bernie Sanders was unable to be at all specific as to how the financial end of his medical insurance would work; only that it is morally wrong to deny proper medical care to someone.
I heard each candidate resubmit the same moralistic facts about taking children from their parents, but none gave any specifics as to the cost of it.
If the rightful solution to the migrant crisis means opening up our border and basically giving the land our ancestors took from the ancestors of migrants back to them, it will create financial and social problems of a scale not seen in this country.
Can the candidates dispense with all the altruistic worn out rhetoric and start giving us an idea of how they would solve the "mechanics" of the migrant problem?
7
Biden performed well. Which is to say that he performed more or less as people who know him expected him to perform. He is a gifted politician -- a warm, avuncular presence -- a trustworthy elder statesman. Perfect? Of course not.
Harris distinguished herself, but she just lost the general election, and for that reason should also lose the primary. Her hectoring of Biden, her nagging of him, her accusations that he was on the wrong side of history -- it was all so short sighted. Her strategy was born out of her experience of petty office politics in California, but it will absolutely not work when she faces an aging cohort of white centrists in the midwest. They will remember the contempt that she showed Biden and they will know, correctly, that she feels the same contempt for them.
Embrace her at your peril.
15
Dear Mr. Martin and Mr. Burns: Kindly choose your words more carefully. You write, "Ms. Harris also delighted Republicans by raising her hand to indicate her support for eliminating private health care in America..." Who is advocating for the elimination of private health CARE? It is the system of health INSURANCE as a prerequisite to obtaining decent health CARE that is being challenged. And rightly so. The wealthy will always find a way to get their boutique-y extra-special health services, and that's fine for them. The rest of us deserve great health CARE without the ridiculous requirement to obtain outrageously expensive health INSURANCE. Please do your part to disentangle these concepts.
4
For the first time since trump was elected, I felt optimistic about our country's future after the debate last night. The ONLY thing that matters is a candidate who can outtalk, outlast, out-retort and outsmart trump. As far as I'm concerned, that person is Kamala Harris. She is my pick, and I am all in. I will vote for whoever is the candidate, but only Kamala has shown the ability to command the attention of those around her - which is what can throw trump off-balance and hopefully give the government back to the people.
1
To reply to a woman who said she was discriminated against and hurt by it with a cheap shot of "former prosecutor" reminded me of how inappropriate some of Biden's remarks made in response to Anita Hill.
Biden might have been a public defender, but some of his remarks, were, are, and continue to be indefensible.
I'm done with having a president who shoots off remarks aimed at women with cheap shots like this. There's no excuse for it.
2
I see a lot of comments about Sen Harris' anger. I came to this country for its promise of meritocracy. What I find after getting a PhD at arguably the premier tech school in this country (te world ?) is that the barrier is higher for me than for peers from the US- Europe. If it is that palpable for me, I can imagine how much worse it could for those less privileged. So, I am not angry (and neither is Harris). I dont want reparations (She was careful to enunciate this). All I want is that the playing field be level for my daughter who is a rising junior in college. All we want is for Rev King's vision to be realized.
4
Biden worked across party lines to get legislation done, and powerful people back then included powerful segregationists. Segregationists not that much earlier had been in the Democratic Party until the Republicans deliberately lured them over. Working across the aisle is how things got done in Congress and we need a return to that, even (and because) there are different viewpoints across the country.
His point about Harris is valid, too - crime demands response, and the majority of the public wanted the very high levels of crime dealt with back then, and Harris' own job more recently included prosecuting suspects no matter what their race is.
Whever asked Biden to pass the torch to the next generation, how many others (Sanders, Warren?) got that invitation?
4
The historically large field for the 2020 Democratic nomination mirrors the also-very large field for the 2016 Republican nomination in one respect: in each case, the size of the field is a reflection of Donald Trump. Don't forget that he became the Republican front-runner the moment he announced his candidacy, and stayed the front-runner throughout the Republican primary, in spite of one controversy after another.
In my opinion, the Republican field stayed as large as it did, for as long as it did (12 Republicans were still in the running for the 2016 Iowa caucuses), and the Democratic field has gotten as large as it has gotten, because every single Republican candidate then was, and every single Democratic candidate now is, thinking the exact same thing:
"There's no way this clown should be President. I'm way more electable than him and would be a much better President than him."
Are Democrats ready to defend federal school busing now? Schools have always been a local issue. Even liberal Boston absolutely hated school busing and to this day there is a large scar from that era as many families moved to the suburbs.
Democrats are trying hard to lose to Trump.
8
I’m wondering which candidate is most likely to grab votes away from disillusioned trump supporters.
I’m not sure, but I think Sanders would be the one.
What do you think. ?
2
I felt like I needed a shower after that debate. With the exception of Bernie and a few others, the candidates seemed to be in a competition over who can be the meanest to Uncle Joe. I'd take Harris' impassioned speech a little more seriously if she wasn't from Berkley and the product of a privileged background. Anyone who leads with the argument that they're a better candidate because they're younger is automatically disqualified on my list. Ideas are outdated. People are not just because they have gray hair. Swallwell and Gillibrand needed to just go away.
5
I know polling works, but I do find it odd that I don't know a soul who supports the alleged front runner. All the hairstyling and cosmetic work that went into Biden's debate appearance still didn't make him seem like a viable candidate. His world is one in which it's ok for Democrats to be supported by Wall Street and to bail them out no matter how much damage they do. In which the rights of women, people of color and LGBT folks are his to grant. In which we have to be moderate in tackling the climate crisis because, after all, we don't want to offend petro-donors. He's a dinosaur whose candidacy will guarantee four more years of Trump.
5
What a difference a party makes. Kamala Harris looked just as bad when she went after Justice Kavanaugh, but then she was cheered. Likewise, Biden looked dreadful during his VP debate with Paul Ryan, like a grinning fool, but then he was cheered. Now that they are out of "enemy territory", people are being honest about them. Says a lot about the effects of partisanship on objectivity.
10
The field is crowded with talent and Sanders has enough money to keep his campaign rolling deep into the primaries. I can imagine a Sanders zombie campaign stealing a chunk of the ultra progressive vote from Warren and letting Biden limp to the finish line first after a war of attrition with Harris.
2
Among other positives, Kamala Harris showed last night that she has the intellectual and verbal ability to handle a loud bully like Donald Trump in the all-important presidential debates, someone whose message is fresh and who can think and speak quickly, meaningfully, and passionately when the conversation becomes chaotic.
We seem to be spending a lot of time right now theorizing about whom black and minority voters support and are energized about supporting in the democratic primary and general election without looking at who they support now and why. That person is Biden who has a sizable lead among African-Americans in polling.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/11/biden-black-economic-alliance-poll-2020-1359082
If the democrats intend to beat Trump and believe that the Black vote is key (which it is), they should try to understand what about Biden appeals to that demographic rather than trying demotivate those voters by taking quotes about working with segregationalists out of context.
Kamala may win points on the debate stage right now and in the polls but if that energy doesn't carry over into the general election, this gambit will be seen as self-destructive rather than productive.
3
I kind of liked Harris before the debate. Now, she's turned me completely off. Biden may not be perfect but he at least knows what's going on and who the players are. We are almost into 2020, no need to go back to the seventies.
7
After watching two days of the circus, it is becoming more obvious that my ultimate nightmare will come true.....Trump might win the second term.
2
My own preference remains with Biden but Bennet is to me the best of the challengers. Ms. Harris did a brilliant job of advertising her brilliance and her arrogant passion to sit in brittle judgment on the difficult past--as though the first black president in our history had not deliberately chosen Mr. Biden's personal history and legislative skills to help make his way in the world. She and Bernie Sanders are going a long way to help make the Democratic nominee next year a difficult challenge to a Republican onslaught of demagogy, slander and fraud. They forget that unseating the worst president in U.S. may be much harder than their left-wing base thinks. I came away from the debate much less confident in the Democratic Party than I was before the debate. Even so, Bennet will give Trump a blistering attack. He is to me first or second on a smart ticket. Time to winnow the field.
2
I think Harris and Sanders (or vice versa) could be a winning ticket. The other would be Sanders and Warren (or vice versa). I really believe that good candidates should think hard about picking another front runner in the field for VP, should they win the nomination. There are a lot of great ideas in this group.
2
Based on the comments on this article from self-described "Democrats", (you're not fooling anybody repub trolls), Trump supporters are terrified of Harris. She would eat Donny alive in a debate.
14
@Steve
I hope you're kidding. Harris is a dream come true for Trump. He's afraid of Biden and Warren and he should be.
1
H’mmmm
An awful lot of posts so far criticizing Harris for “...showboating...” , “...shouting...” or just being mean to Uncle Joe.
Aa matters stand, I am still a Biden guy, and I am a guy-an Old Blue, lifelong, Philly Democrat., but those posts are problematic.
first they might be organized oppo. if so, organized by whom?
Second, they criticize in personal terms and terms used in the past to derogate and subordinate women, particularly black women.
Biden has to raise his game. fast.
6
@Lefthalfbach
"first they might be organized oppo. if so, organized by whom?"
I once would have thought this was crazy, but now I wonder if it isn't banks of Russian trolls just trying to sow discord.
1
@GS
The same thought had crossed my mind.
1
I love the spirit of Kamala Harris: prepare you lines, rehearse them, play it dramatically for the audience and then sell related merchandise. That's the way!
Harris campaign sells 'That Little Girl Was Me' shirts after debate confrontation with Biden
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/450831-harris-campaign-sells-that-little-girl-was-me-shirts-after-debate-comments
6
The whole "debate" was a set up for the Democrats. Every question kept them in their wheelhouse - abortion, race, homosexuality and a return to the past in foreign relations and business as usual. There were no questions or challenges on their childish tax and spend plans, kumbaya foreign policies, North Korea, nuclear proliferation, nothing serious on the economy or the massive debt and deficits or fixing Social Security or any difficult national question. No one challenged Harris on her announced plan to assume dictatorial powers over guns or their general willingness to ignore the Constitution in general, the 2nd amendment in particular or the failure of Obama Care including the Democrat's failure to properly fund it. No one asked DeBlasio about the mess he has made in NY or his wife's mismanagement of a billion tax payer dollars. The moderators did not challenge the attacks on corporations while corporations are funding their campaigns or that CEO'S are evil for pursuing profits for shareholders, you know pension systems, ma and Pa and others. In short it was a farcical setup.
The "debate" made clear the low regard the media has for the American people. It should have been on the Home Shopping Network. When the left wing media has to put their collective thumb on the scale so obviously it tells us how pathetic the Democrats really are and how dumb they think the people are.
3
@antonio gomez And just who are “the people” of whom you speak? It seems obvious that you believe the Republican “base” are the real people, and a majority. Neither belief is credible. Yes, I suppose any media left of Fox is left wing, but the majority of voters do not take their views from Fox. The majority see clearly that Trump is an incompetent, pathological liar with a dangerous affection and talent for leveraging hate. Good for the left wing media for whatever editorial influence they can muster against the petty tyrant whom the Republican Party and especially its base, has embraced.
That said, I too was dismayed by the red and orange neon carnival setting, the Olympics- style musical fanfare, the Survivor spectacle atmospherics. The hooting audience confirmed the theatrical intent of the producers. These are serious people talking about serious issues in a very troubled time. What I saw was an encouraging level of intellectual and moral seriousness that deserved a much more sober staging. We all must become a lot more serious as we think and work our way forward toward a more workable political mechanism. There’s definitely no going back to the good old days.
Poor writing! Can’t the author think of a substitute for “pushing back on” such as “rebuff” or “counteract” or even “respond”? An even greater question is how does a contorted phrase like that occur to anyone?
3
The Democrats’ position is now clear:
1. Open borders by legalizing any and all immigration by anyone at any time for any reason
2. Entice them with free medical care (while U.S. citizens struggle to pay for theirs)
The Democrats haven’t formed a circular firing squad.
They simply aimed at their own feet and pulled the trigger.
14
The party of race politics and race attacks (border control = racism, tough on crime = racism, capitalism = racism) absolutely refuses to identify that gun deaths are predominantly caused by young black males with illegal handguns? You will never solve the problem if you refuse to identify it. Here is a hint, it ain't the NRA or the AR-15 doing the killing.
4
it's the economy stupid. everything else is just icing.
1
@eastbackbay
I'm a Type 1 Diabetic. Are you implying that this makes me "stupid" because I disagree with you?
Such a response sounds very Trumpian.
@eastbackbay
Not to about half the population, but thanks for admitting you don't care about that!
It appears, that Ms Harris wishes to hold the race card, as a sword of Damocles over the head of her opponents, not just Biden. That is NOT a winning policy platform and might not even get her the black vote, as some might consider her not black enough.
8
She's STILL that little girl who refuses to evolve. That used to be me. Therapy works!
3
@waldo, He should have responded with her own record of locking up black people, instead he froze.
Witch hunting make believe racists of generations ago, has become a popular present-day hobby for intellectuals of color.
She's trying to make Biden's past rhyme with the Ralph Northam story. That's pretty slimy.
Really?
6
When you are older and people are all talking at once or talking fast, it takes your brain a while to catch up. That is what Biden looked like to me.
4
I think Biden was ambushed just like Hillary was ambushed.
4
It was the dumbest attack of the year. Biden isn't racist. He has to work with all types in the Senate.
7
@Ryan
Harris literally said she didn't think Biden was a racist. That doesn't mean he can't perpetuate racism. Her attack was spot on.
1
@GS right... She's trying to make Biden's past rhyme with the Ralph Northam story. That's pretty slimy.
The first night’s debate was Woodstock and the second Altamont. So far, I’d call Warren the overall winner, the candidate who truly represents hope and change.
11
Bernie missed his chance last night. Instead of taking on every major business in this country he should have expanded on his plan to eliminate all college debt. At first I thought it was pie in the ski, but in thinking more on it, it could be a real boon to our economy. $1.6 trillion in debt reduction could free up all debtors to buy houses, cars whatever and would be more of a stimulus to the economy then the piddling tax cut that Trump came up with. In addition all this money would be paid to the banks that hold the debts giving them more cash to lend out hopefully at lower rates. His idea of debt reduction could really catch fire if he were to push it better.
3
Debates are not everything.
But given that they exist, the best policy positions don't necessarily win out over the most fire.
In his debates with Clinton, Trump was inarticulate and blustering. His proposals were generalized and hollow, but they were backed with commitment.
Clinton won those debates hands down. But Trump convinced people to vote for him based on his energy.
1
@Jerry Engelbach - Energy? I'm not sure how incoherent rambling equates to energy.
I kept imagining every one of the Democratic Primary candidates debating President Trump. If Vice President Biden can’t take the heat coming from Senator Harris, then he really isn’t ready for President Trump’s oven.
The point of winning is to exploit the opponent’s weaknesses during the presidential race. The point of the primaries is to remove the weak.
Senator Harris did VP Biden a favor exposing his weakness to him during an early primary debate and a lot of people are now babying Mr. Biden. Do you think President Trump will baby Mr. Biden? Does Mr. Trump baby anyone?
And the Democrats appearing to favor open borders is a serious problem. That will not sell well to anyone but hardcore Democrats. That debate point needs immediate clarification.
9
TV as a medium is ruthless. The camera frame that captured Biden and Sanders next to Pete Buttigieg and Kamala Harris was devastating for the two. They both were fading as the night progressed and seemed almost feckless trying to repeat their CV. Delivery by Buttigieg, Harris, and Gillibrand exuded passion, composure, and articulation. The country is ready to move on from the Obama era which ironically got derailed by the stranglehold of power by a generation of white men who made backroom deals which delivered for a very few. TV as a visual medium conveys a lot more than just the words. It was a night which showed the world of progressive politics in brilliant color and the stage was alive with new actors ready for the new playbook.
7
The Democrats have failed to learn several key lessons over the past 4 years. Again, they have forgotten to make this election about how they will better the lives of Americans economically, other than to talk about healthcare. They failed to point out the ways in which the Trump economy is actually a hidden set-back for most homes. And as for health care, they ignored the fact that there is already a model for a mixed health plan, the mix of Medicare and supplemental private insurance that many seniors use. Instead, last night was often a bash-fest. There is too much victim talk already; if we want a better president, let's focus the campaign on what the Dems will do for the average American, not who is the biggest victim in whatever way.
10
@Locavore Unfortunately, that's all the modern American Left seems to care about nowadays. Victimhood and labels
2
@Mike Not just the left, either. The biggest ranters, with the all capital letters, seem to be the right these days.
It was depressing to me to see Biden under attack. We all knew it was coming but it didn't play well, I thought, as a good majority of Americans "out there in the world" like Biden. Online, in the feedback loop, they are happy to see him taken down. It depressed me since Joe Biden is still the best bet to win in Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan. I was and remain troubled that there are so many candidates the whole process is going to cause us to attack every frontrunner until WE'RE satisfied, only to lose to Trump. I was disappointed in those who went after him. I can't lie about that.
4
Senator Harris appeal last night was a shrewd attack on a man that over his career has proven to be an advocate and defender of important civil rights legislation.
When the headlines die down, I think it well we understand the motives for mischaracterizing Joe Biddn’s comments regarding the long history of the Senate where people disagreed fiercely but had to work together to pass quality legislation.
I worked in the Senate in the mid 70’s for Walter Mondale. I am sickened by the Senate McConnell has created and and more deeply disappointed that the media is going along with Senator Harris’s mischaracterization of Mr. Biden’s honest remarks that we must work together to pass quality legislation.
Senator Harris iconic Senators that produced the Civil Rights Act you referred had to work with bigoted segregationists.
Joe Biden is a good man and he deserves honest conversation and not a 30 second sound bite that was clearly planned to elevate Senator Harris’s comment.
Joe Biden is not a racist and he never embraced segregation. He like many other young Senators had to work with powerful segregationists as did Humphrey, Mondale, Kennedy, PHIL Hart and so many more.
Senator Harris is grandstanding. What bills has she introduce to lessen the education gap among minorities?
The debates with 60 second answers are a joke.
16
@Concerned Citizen
Biden seemed unprepared for the attack on him last night. He could have pushed back with “You said you weren’t going to do anything that would benefit black people but I’m the racist?” That zinger would have changed the debate and what is being said about it today. Harris pretends she never made that statement (there is a video), the media refuses to acknowledge it but black people know and that is part of the reason she isn’t polling well with black people.
@Concerned Citizen
Well said. When did working to create legislation that helped move the needle in the correct direction a crime? I remember when the Republicans shot themselves in the foot by declaring that they would not accept a budget deal that gave them 90% of the budget reductions thru cuts if they had to accept 10% in expenditures. We call legislators who can create consensus and accomplish a goal thru compromise "Statesmen". We need more such individuals serving in Washington, not fewer.
I watched Joe Biden skillfully debate Sarah Palin. He did a superb job back then, 12-14 years ago. Last night showcased his age decline. He speaks in partial sentences. He rambled. Please move Joe and Nancy off the national stage. Watching them both on TV is painful. Time for a new generation.
6
Biden is older, we all know that – but that's fine by me as long as he doesn't come across as a political dinosaur who is completely overwhelmed by the sheer dynamism and imagination of some of the younger candidates... which is how he seemed tonight. I guess that might not be a problem in a debate against Trump, since Trump is so breathtakingly ignorant and incoherent. But Biden needs to win the primaries to get that far, and this was such an objectively bad performance. I'm interested to see if this affects his numbers, especially among African American voters, with whom he is apparently more popular than Harris. I hope he can recover some of his equilibrium in a smaller debate and come across a tad more forward-thinking and not so mired in the past. I'm not interested in what he did 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. I'm interested in what he's going to do in the future if he becomes president.
2
What Kamala Harris did it typical, goes after the best candidate who has a chance to bit the president. But if Biden falls, so does the Democratic party in the coming election.
6
I note that of the NYT picks thus far, most of them see Kamala Harris' attack as a petty and rude stunt. My feelings exactly. Unlike the post-debate commentators who fawned all over her, I was put off- even angered - by her tactic - a cheap prosecutor with a cheap shot. If the commentators want someone who can hurl insults right back at Trump, you might as well have Bill Maher or Whooppie Goldberg on the debate stage. I want an experienced legislator (and an ex-vice president as an bonus ), a decent, respectable person with integrity to return us from this malignancy that is Trump, McConnell and the pathetic Republican controlled Senate. Harris needs to earn her stripes in the Senate by staying there longer than 2 1/2 years and acquiring some poise and civility.
10
It seems that the Democratic candidates cared most about illegal immigrants.
How do they expect to beat Trump when their plan is to offer illegals free healthcare and to continue to have me pay for mine?
I swear they are working hard to re-elect Trump.
13
I was so relieved at the end, there was no biting!
3
All you need to know is every Democrat promised free healthcare to illegals.
While millions of Americans go without.
So tone deaf - political malpractice which kicks them vs. Trump.
20
Biden has a long track record of getting his Legislation passed. The Senate has 100 members, all elected by the voters of their states. No Senator has any control of who voters in other states send to the Senate.
To get anything through, you need a majority of Senators to sign on. This process involves building consensus with people who you may completely disagree with on other issues. And their willingness to join the consensus is a positive.
If Ms Harris is elected, and refuses to build consensus with legislators less progressive than herself, it will only prolong and further harden the polarization in American politics.
4
Mayor Pete, as he has come to be called, seemed to me the only authentic, dignified, sincere person on stage. All the rest fulminated or tried to bring down all the other candidates.
13
@s.g.
Maybe not as "dignified", but Bernie was surely as authentic and sincere. Sometimes fulminating is order.
1
@s.g. I was very impressed with Mayor Pete and also Michael Bennet from Colorado. They were clear, passionate and did not let gender, race and other complex issues get in the way for the first debate. Much appreciated by this voter.
Biden really nailed it last night.
Stopping himself in mid-sentence, he looked out from the podium and announced “my time is up”.
So true and on display last night.
Thank you for all of your decades of public service Mr. Biden but you are correct.
Step aside, your time is up.
18
Predictably the media seized the opportunity to support Harris's unseemly attack of Biden. It's happening already. Dems will nominate an unlikable candidate far to the left of their electorate and usher in four more years. And media will be outraged.
28
@Keith
Oh, come now. Why are women so "unlikable" to you that you have to refer to them as leftists and socialists and call the media names also.
3
@Keith To question him on his continued support of "states' rights" when it comes to Constitutional civil rights is "unseemly?" Apparently, she just doesn't know her place. Good for her.
4
I've read all of the post thus far-1500 or so and I am astounded by the disconnect between media-well the media I follow, anyway. the Times, MSNBC, CNN, 538, all of whom thought Kamala Harris won the day, and the letters from readers here, most of whom appear dubious, or eve hostile to her attacks on Biden. I don't get it.
20
@Brian
They don't buy into the identity nonsense?
7
It wasn’t a scenario where Black children were excluded from their neighborhood schools. In places like Boston, neighborhoods were heavily racially segregated so the schools were also. The forced busing within large districts made children go to schools far from their homes. The controversy in Boston caused student enrollment in public schools to drop. People moved to the suburbs or sent their children to private schools. It was a complete failure and weakened the Boston public school system for decades. In Delaware, the busing was even more severe. It shifted students between completely different city and suburban school districts.
It was kind of ridiculous for Kamala Harris to try and personalize the busing issue. Her father was a Stanford economics professor and her mother was a PhD cancer researcher at Berkeley. She wasn’t exactly a poor child from an uneducated family living in a deprived area with bad schools.
7
After last night, I see Kamala Harris as A.G.; under Biden. (Sanders as Press Secretary; Warren or Butigieg, Veep; Castro, HUD Sec'y, or HEW; Beto, Yang and Williamson, banished to obscurity)
Good night for Harris. But word to wise. Obama did not make it all the way to DC on a bus.
7
@Jen
During his presidency, the man who won both the popular vote as well as the electoral college - twice - was me with a lot of hostility. In fact, there were plenty of Republicans in office during his presidency who made it clear that they thought his place was to sit in the back of a bus instead of the oval office.
1
That was a very smart and effective move by Harris to take down Biden, but with that smart move, my estimation of her as president went down a notch.
Why? It really was a generation gap moment--Joe thought he had done a good thing back then, and Kamala used it to advance herself instead of trying to understand where Joe came from. Of course, segregation is a heated and traumatic for Harris, as she explained based on her personal experience. Same-old, same-old politics as usual. Zero-sum game: I can win if you lose.
I realized then I was looking for a "healer" at predictable political moments like this. Joe didn't heal either but only got mad and frustrated.
Next I wondered, whom among these many talented and bright candidates might take the road less traveled and made a kind gesture or healing remark, or at least phrase the generational difference in a more diplomatic way.
I maybe wrong, but I think Liz Warren, who is truly rising to the presidential occasion, might have at least been kinder in making the same point.
Maybe this is wishful thinking and a small point about finding a healer in the politician haystack, but this country needs healing and a refreshing new tone.
There are lots of good Democratic candidates, which should help the party's beleaguered image, and I would vote for Harris if she is the candidate. But it is early in the game and I will keep hoping to find the healer.
11
@PB
I agree with you.
Harris does not give off a reassuring vibe, shall we say.
From what I glimpsed in the debates, may I suggest Buttigieg or Klobuchar as the kind of pragmatic leader this country could use right now.
1
For the Democrats to win in 2020 they will need a strong leader who can throw the taunts and punches back at Trump as fast or faster than he can deliver them. Warren, Harris, and Sanders, Gillibrand seem very capable and steady and can probably beat Trump at his own game and deliver messages of substance at the same time. Biden seemed less sure and somewhat over-the-hill in his ability to counter-punch. Biden had his chance in the 20th Century. Now is not the time to honor him for his past accomplishments or chastise him for his failures. He should be enjoying retirement, not running for POTUS. (p.s...... I write this as someone who is older than Biden.)
16
@RLW
Took the words right out of my mouth. I had just thought to myself, there is no way Biden can beat Trump. Biden forfeited his time. We need a well versed seasoned fighter, and you named the four I think have a fighting chance.
2
As Glenn Greenwald pointed out in a debate with a NY Times reporter objectivity does not exist in journalism that is why it is better to state clearly where you are speaking from. The Times abhors Sanders and its reporting on him is slanted or biased. He is not "far-left" (indeed the radical left criticizes him for being to tepid). He is a left-liberal who admires the New Deal and proposes to deepen it. Ms Harris has a lot of baggage, notably for her work as a prosecutor who was not over friendly with minorities. Her identity does not change this.
I also, like the Times, like E. Warren (except for her remaining militarism) but she is often used as an anti-Sanders stalking horse. Ms Gabbard also has an important message. I saw that she elicited the most interest after her debate. It's good to have an anti-war candidate who knows about the ravages of war. She too belongs to a minority but the Times does not make much of it.
Besides all the problems Biden has there is also the strong likelihood that the cruel conman Trump would make mincemeat of him in debates.
9
@Pierre, agree with your observations. Would like to see more of Ms. Gabbard. Have always found her to be articulate, a woman of her word, honest to what she believes, has served in war, is relatively young, and willing to interview with the Right as well. She is never insulting or rude and could appeal across both aisles.
4
Re: Biden and school-busing.
The issue was a little more complex than is apparently being grasped. Biden did not help matters with his answer. The Busing Order in question was to and from the City of Wilmington School District to and from different districts in suburban New Castle County.
As I recall, a suburban elementary school was paired with a Wilmington elementary school. Of course, there was racial animosity and of course the suburban districts were overwhelmingly white, but there were legitimate safety concerns among the suburban parents for little kids being bused in.
So, thi was not a situation where local government was having de jure segregation of its own schools. It was not even segregation by neighborhood within a schools district.
It was cross-district busing. That was unpopular then and would be unpopular now.
eventually a Federal Court, or maybe Bush Junior, ended the requirement.
11
I think that a lot of times the students get excluded from these conversations. It sounds like Kamala Harris wanted to go to that school and it was a good experience for her. What about the kids who don’t want to change schools? There is a difference between voluntary busing and forced busing.
1
So that’s how a debate is supposed to work. All of the participants simultaneously yell at each other. I had trouble understanding who was saying what.
6
Kamala Harris delivered a number of powerful personal statements that were very effective and should therefore be closely examined. I was left with the impression that Ms. Harris as a child was bused from a lousy neighborhood to a better one (possibly running a gauntlet of hostility). But after googling her background I see that her father is an Economics professor at Stanford who, at the time, was a doctoral candidate at Berkeley (and got a faculty position at IIlinois the year after graduating). Her mother was apparently a cancer researcher at Berkeley with diplomat parents. I understand she is now extremely wealthy and has many large donors. I am curious whether she was actually bused OUT of a privileged neighborhood/school district into a poorer one. This was not the impression we were left with and it's not a minor difference. She was (and is) clearly privileged and far removed from the working class. If this is the case, maybe only Cory Booker can call her on this because of our sometimes oppresive rules of poltical correctness that require race or gender affiliation.
39
Cory Booker comes from a well educated upper middle class family. He grew up in a mostly white affluent NJ suburb. He was a HS football star and then went to Stanford. He’s just as super privileged as Kamala Harris.
13
@HL
Good to know. Thanks. An honest politician is rare thing.
1
@HL
Educated parents disqualify candidates of color in your world?
Or their experience as people of color don’t count unless they live in the projects?
Or they can’t possibly be really smart and talented and hardworking (just “super privileged”) if they go to Stanford (where Booker not only played football but also ran the peer counseling center) and Yale law and from there go on to have a successful career?
1
Biden looked not only old by unwell last night. His face looked drawn, he looked tired and at times even confused. He might have beaten Trump iń 016, if his party's elites hadn't been all-in for Clinton. Now, it seems unlikely. Even those centrist white men who went for Trump last time, might prefer someone with a little fire in the belly still. Joe doesn't seem there anymore.
And Obama? He is shamefully silent, as he often was when he didn't want to lose admirers. He's effectively cut Biden loose, and that's his right. But he should have the guts to say so, and say why. Guts is something Obama never had.
10
@farhorizons, thought Biden looked great for 80! I vote him for “BEST DRESSED” as he looked good in the custom made blue suit.
Is it just me, or are others also distressed that the Times (like most of the major media) is covering the Democrat primary campaigning as though it were a game? And in response, most of the candidates are performing as though they were sports contenders instead of proving themselves deserving of the most powerful political office on earth, the holder of people's lives in their hands.
12
@Errol
You're being unfair to sports reporters. They cover their subject matter far more objectively and in more detail than political writers, in the NYT and elsewhere.
11
@Errol the Times is working with NBC, CNN, and the DNC to pick the candidate the entire primary is just a game for the Dem voters. That's how you save democracy.
It was nice to see a debate stage with diversity and a debate stage where all Americans were celebrated.
The contrast between the parties could not be clearer. The Democratic Party stands for an inclusive America. The Republican Party for an America where only some (the rich, Evangelicals and Southerners) white Americans matter .
I fear a second Trump term will unleash a new Jim Crow where any minority group, be they racial, religious or sexual, that displeases the Evangelical Extremists of the GOP will be subject to state sanctioned discrimination.
5
@Sterling LMOA. witness the insanity.
Attack on Biden for working with segregationists has been pure political opportunism. The two senators were Democrats and young Biden represented the change in the party yet the ability to work with opposite views. We get her story, but no need to destroy the man who has done what he believed is right and demonstrates that one can change his position.
16
“Your ego is not your amigo.”
We’ve been steeped in coarse political jiggery-pokery since approx April of 2015 and it’s had a deteriorating effect on who we are. Let’s face it, you wouldn’t want to hang out with any of these people for more than 10-20 minutes. Nauseatingly ambitious (not that there is anything wrong with that). Can we just end the circular firing squad and have Biden, Warren and Sanders vie for the nomination?
5
Biden looked frail. The optics were bad.
11
While this bad reality TV show was going on, this stimulus package for our media system and the DNC, the Financial Times was running a lead story on how $2.5tn in private equity just can't find enough worthy things to invest in.
That sum, alone, if invested properly around the world, would go a long way toward moving off carbon, while creating tons of unexportable jobs.
Varoufakis's utterly capitalist-conventional idea to fund a European Green New Deal is to use existing structures, the European Investment Bank, to issue bonds that private equity and so on can invest in; Green development bonds. He suggested a half trill a year for five years. That's $2.5tn. Utterly and completely within the existing system; easy to do. You press a button. No tax increase. A more recent version rightly calls for an international version of this, totaling $8tn, using a new institution but one based entirely on past successful institutions: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/23/international-green-new-deal-climate-change-global-response
This, too, is Stalinism, apparently. And you can watch a real debate on this between Varoufakis and a member of the German Greens--a specific debate in front of actual human beings discussing ways to fund a Green New Deal. Here's six minutes of it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlicNObK1D8.
That's how serious people debate serious issues. This garbage that was inflicted on us the past two nights is not serious.
5
Kamela Harris is a principled person who is clearly preferable to Trump. However, it is disingenuous to criticize Biden regarding his vote on School Busing unless you believe he is a racist. As you have repeatedly said that you respect him and do not believe he is a racist, then his vote on a clearly contentious issue at the time is no more an issue than your upholding racially unfair laws while you were California's Attorney General. The same is for Bernie's harping about who voted for the Iraq war. Yes, we now know that Busing worked, the Iraq was not about WMDs and our criminal justice system is unfair. At the time, however, a substantial portion of the country felt otherwise, and Congress reflected this spectrum of opinions. We should judge someone on who they are now understanding that people's opinions (and our elected representatives) can and do change. We should celebrate the ability to change.
Thoughts for the next "debate":
-answer the question; you should be proud of your positions; don't waffle
-cut to the chase; drop the fluff; stick to your time limit
-don't interrupt (a delusional request)
For moderators:
-don't allow interruption but solicit responses from other candidates (how many, not sure) following the initial answer and then a single follow-up response from the initial speaker
-turn off the speaker's mic after the allotted time
-10 is too many to have on stage; ? 5 max; if more sessions are needed to get everyone on stage, so be it.
11
@Bob Parker
The Iraqi invasion was based on a transparent lie.
A huge percentage of the public knew it and demonstrated against it.
Any politician who didn't know it is too stupid to deserve higher office.
Any politician who knew it but voted for it anyway is an unprincipled opportunist and unfit for higher office.
The two invasions were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
Those who voted for them cannot just be forgiven for their culpability, any more than we forgive a common murderer just because he doesn't continue to kill.
@Jerry Engelbach
I'm not sure the lie was apparent to all at the time of the vote, although there was certainly info out there that called into question to truth of the matter. Given your comments, can I assume you did not vote for Hillary? That being said, I was not in favor of the war, but recognize that not all who voted for authorization were acting in bad faith. Elected officials make bad decisions, but as long as they were not due to malfeasance or financial gain they are just that, mistakes. I think back to the phrase, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Bernie is against war, war is evil and should be avoided. There are those who feel that there is no such thing as a "just war"; I'm not sure I agree, although if there are, Iraq was not one. While we shouldn't elect a President to go to war, a President needs to be prepared to go to war if necessary.
My point was not about the Iraq war, but that all elected officials who have been in office for a time will have made decisions that in retrospect they may regret. Additionally, while it is easy to "Monday morning quarterback" any vote that you didn't have to make, the important point is to consider where someone is now, consider the individual's whole body of work and the context in which any decision was made. I respect your opinion and the strength of your convictions, and hope you will be able to find your way to vote for the eventual Democrat nominee in 2020.
Shame Bloomberg opted out of the race. One of the few who no doubt would have come to the table with a reasoned approach. A lot of what we heard was radical nonsense. Free this, free that, punish corporations with punitive taxes (and send the economy into a tailspin), trash talking a healthy economy, free healthcare for illegal immigrants, open borders in all but name. That Joe Biden is the front runner, riding along on Obama’s coat tail speaks volumes to the Democrats ever gloomier prospects in 2020
9
Democrat debate poker:
Ok ante up.
Free healthcare for illegal aliens.
I’ll raise. Expanded free Medicare.
I’ll see your expanded Medicare and raise to Medicare for all. For free.
I’ll raise. Free college tuition for all.
I’ll see your free tuition and raise to erase all existing student loans.
The happy banter among the players, calling each other racist and attempting to out virtue signal each other.
Quite a show.
12
Senator Harris moved clearly into contention last night. I doubt Biden was dealt a fatal blow. He will remain atop the polls and must still be considered the favorite absent a major gaffe which surely did not happened last night. He looked older than his years and may have missed the boat in 2016. Who is the best person to beat Trump? Trump.
3
This is why Trump is president- the press and the public glorify bullys. I liked Harris until she pulled the rehearsed low blow to Biden. It was clearly rehearsed and planned and did not advance the betterment of the people or the country. She is obviously a bully, playing the race card and looking for her sound bite to win the debate. We don’t need another bully. We need policy.
10
Democrats in these comments continue to underestimate that young people refuse to be scared by “if we don’t vote Biden, Trump will win!” That’s not going to work.
Harris had every right to question Biden’s record. Biden looked unprepared and his baggage SHOULD haunt him - his political history is filled with some rather awful stuff. But of course Biden’s arrogance would never allow him to apologize and reconsider. Quite frankly, most of the backlash I’ve seen and read here towards Harris’ assertiveness reeks of subliminal misogyny and racism, as if Harris “should know her place.” Call her uppity while you’re at it, why don’t you?
If Dems nominate Biden, many millennials especially young people of color (that the party needs to win) will not be motivated to head to the polls - fear of Trump IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. And if it happens, older white Dems will have explaining to do.
Based on this first round as well as policy that is most pressing: Some combination of a Warren/Harris/Castro ticket could really progress the country.
Personally, Warren is still the most progressive viable candidate and can speak the language of disenfranchised white people in the rust belt and the south WITHOUT sacrificing brown and black people, immigrants, and/or the LGBT community. But after last night, though I’m not particularly fond of the concept, you simply can’t deny how presidential Harris was. Unless of course you think “presidential” is reserved only for old white men.
4
@MMB
of subliminal misogyny and racism,
Harris is a rich woman coming from a comfortable middle class background who was banking on her racial identity, and stealing the suffering of less fortunate people, for her own benefit.
Nothing racist or subliminal here, just that I don't like opportunism.
3
@MMB
Ironically, the only thing I respect about Biden is that he's honest enough not to apologize.
Any apology Biden offers would ring hollow and insincere, because that's what it is.
That you think Harris is banking on her racial identity says much about you. Her racial identity is a part of her - it cant be divorced from who she is anymore than whiteness from a white candidate, the difference of course is the power of the latter to be silent. Part of how privilege operates.
Also, if you talk to/spend time with even rich/ black folks, they too have much to say about racism. So not sure what your point is here.
Those who attacked Joe Biden last night...in my view ...ruined
their chances of becoming the Democratic candidate...and
only showed their unvarnished opportunistic ambitions.
Kamala Harris notably is ...just that...out for herself...just like
Donald Trump.....
In my view; Elizabeth Warren is ...ambitious for all of us...
and has a vision for the future...I think Bernie is also unselfish....
Others are too; but the ones who attack ….seem to want to
bully others...like Trump.
We are sooooo sick of Trump....so I cancel any who want to
win ...simply by bullying others.
14
@Carol B. Russell It was a debate. No one should feel sensitive about anyone being picked apart. That’s exactly what’s needed. Ridiculous to think Biden is the only one who can win the election.
Karmala/Mayor Pete for democratic ticket.. I can dream can’t I?
3
@AW
A dream that again lose the rust belt and the working class and the election.
8
Only saw part of this debate on youtube later. The article describing Kamala Harrris dicussion with Biden as "attaching", "tearing into", "lancing". Clearly the writers felt she was "mean" to Biden. Does he have speicial protection status ? Are female politicians supposed to "defer" to men in debates?
3
She attacked him. Choose whatever words you want to describe it
2
Witness the insanity of a party taken over by spoiled ignorant children who need to be educated on the realities of the natural world. Blaming dead illegals on Trump and "corporations" whilst promising illegals free tuition, free healthcare, a roof, and citizenship if they can get here. That's right open borders and socialism. How will it work? who cares. The US working class who? never met em... Oh and of course the race and identity politics were on full display. Apparently the leader should be chosen in order of: 1) gender, 2) race, 3) LGBT. Of course if you have multiple qualities you may be fed the answers and anointed, and if you have none watch your back. Witness the insanity.
12
@DecliningSociety
"Witness the insanity of a party taken over by spoiled ignorant children..." I agree. It's a shame what's happened to the Republicans, led by a spoiled, ignorant child named Donald J. Trump. The Republicans who support Trump have covered their eyes and ears with blindfolds and earplugs.
@tom boyd at least Donald Trump puts my family over the interests of illegal aliens. Open borders and free stuff for all socialism is political insanity.
1
I agree that Harris shone in this debate. Her zinger about the food fight and her attack on Joe Biden's position on busing and his recent statement about working with segregationists were canned--but these scripted attacks at least prove that she actually prepared for the debate, and caught her unprepared rivals off-guard. They also show that she understands an old piece of wisdom: Politics ain't beanbag.
3
As a result of watching this debate, my support for Biden increased (it used to be lukewarm at best), and my regard for Harris plummeted to nothing. Busing as the hottest topic in 2019? Give me a break! I had to google the controversy and it seemed at bad idea at the time and totally irrelevant today. Harris was demagogic, insincere and had not a single interesting political suggestion. Biden did not either but he managed to look affable, positive and presidential (incidentally I want the name of his cosmetic surgeon for future use). Bernie was horrifying, reminding me of the old movies of Trotsky. The only person on that stage who was both nice to look at and spoke intelligently and with authority was Mayor Pete. I wish he were the nominee. But I would settle for Biden. Harris, on the other hand, is out of the running as far as I am concerned.
8
Almost all very good candidates for a cabinet, and a few would be a very good president.
Biden remains the only candidate who appeals widely across the country, and therefore win the election.
Everyone seems to know the current 'administration' is de-structing economy, culture, America's democratic institutions and democracy.
Will Democrats WORK TOGETHER to beat Trump, McConnell, and Republican cronies?
4
Biden looked pretty dominant to me. He has the experience - vastly more than others who were up there. L like Harris, but I thought her playing the identity politics card was a bad move. The Democrats have to get away from all that and be the party for all Americans.
Obama ran and did not make a big deal of the issues with growing up mixed race. It was obvious to people who see Harris that she probably had to overcome race issues growing up. She should have focused on something else and let the media report on her back story. Segregation is long over, as are many other policies once widely accepted. As a nation, people want to come together.
The more relevant topics would have focused more on the daily issues people face today: gun violence, a massive redistribution of wealth to the wealthiest that erodes opportunities for less well off who work hard (regardless of race) a march toward a completely unprovoked war, corruption in government tied to corporate lobbying, gerrymandering and the power of the Senate to block he will of the people with parliamentary procedure, an executive branch the ignores subpoenas and obstructs the process of government.
All of the other pie in the sky environmental stuff is irrelevant if we don't fix the root causes listed above.
As I watched the shouting, interrupting, general chaotic feel of the second debate, I thought, "how typical of Democrats." I also thought that the winner might be Trump. Biden, the front-runner was not inspiring and looked like he was holding on for dear life. Sanders was a rerun of the Sanders we've already seen. Harris, this morning's favorite among the media-pundit class, was way too aggressive for middle-of-the-road White voters in Midwestern states where the last election was decided. Buttigieg had some amazing contributions but his youth was on display among so many older than him. There were too many others on the stage who were plainly forgettable and hopefully won't return.
1
It would do more for the country if fifteen or so of the current contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination put their passion and resources into running for the Senate. If the Senate stays in Republican control, even a Democratic president will flounder. As we saw with Obama and Mitch McConnell. Ambitious Democratic politicians, for the sake of your party, for the sake of your country. run for the Senate.
6
Has anyone done analysis of the past 44 presidents to check how many of the things they accomplished in the first 100 days after taking office, as they said they would? "I will do this" and "I will do that" are just empty words if you don't show us your plan. Show me one 2020 candidate that has a detailed plan and has identified people (including real scientists - not wannabes) who would lead the climate agenda.
1
It's unfortunate and embarrassing, but I just don't think Americans are politically mature enough to vote a woman in as president. The conservative Baptists are still grappling with allowing them to lead a church.
3
This is what worries me about Mr. Biden. This whole busing/desegregation controversy was his own making. I don't think any of his opponents were planning on using that to attack him until he himself brought up the subject (against the advice of his campaign staff) and made it part of the national conversation. This is the kind of blunder that would get the Democrat Candidate skewered in the general election which is why I worry that if Biden is that candidate he will trip up his own chances of winning.
2
My take:
Harris: Too far, with an unfair, rehearsed, overly dramatic attack on Biden. If we are going to dig up every prior position someone has ever had, let someone look at her prosecutions in CA, shall we? Plenty of skeletons in that closet.
Biden: Unfair as the attack may be, Trump will do far worse. So all the more troubling that he looked so dumbfounded, unprepared, and sleepy.
Bernie: It’s to his credit we are even talking about many of these issues in the first place, but last night he was angry, preachy, scolding. It wasn’t an inspiring look.
Which leaves Mayor Pete: his candid, sincere answer about the police shooting was my favorite moment of the evening. Vulnerable, honest, brave. The adult in the room. The President in my eyes.
7
I agree about Mayor Pete. He is my current favorite but I don’t know if he can beat Trump. Sad to say, I am more concerned with getting Trump out of office than voting for my favorite this election.
Identity politics like Harris and Gillibrand are promoting will not get them elected at all. Also, Castro seemed to favor open borders, that is a killer. We need to go forward with immigration plans for the a new economy. Take care of our own people first add immigrants as needed, allow refugees refuge once they have been vetted as refugees, and a sane foreign policy for Nicaragua, Honduras and El Salvador which includes investments by companies, eradication of violence as much as possible and education of the children and young people for jobs in their economies. We should have an EU like program for Central America. It good for us and them.
2
I am an independent and I do not want Biden elected. I cringe whenever he and Klobuchar remind us of their so called bi-partisan relationships, which translate to me, that Republicans would continue to roundly and shamelessly out maneuver the Democratic party on their watch, just as they did Bill Clinton, and even Obama in many salutary ways. But do not count out the apparently disoriented Biden too soon. The sad reality is, that as smart as Warren and Harris are, midwestern, Pennsylvania/ Floridian types, even unenlightened black, hispanic and white American men will balk at turning out in force for a woman, any woman, in this American era of dunce, retrograde, rampaging idiocy. I am convinced, that the Democrats will lose, if a woman heads the ticket. There is a broad swathe of the US electorate that quietly loves Trump's ignorant, divisive bombast, and will quickly pull that lever for him, especially if the economy remains strong. That same ilk would vote for Biden, if he remains convincingly Uncle Joe, and reasonably lucid. In addition, Democrats will continue to fumble that immigration issue. Even after Obama's stellar record protecting America's borders, they did so. Hilary failed to frame it as such. Democrats flagellate themselves to placate hispanic voters whose polling booth choices or lack of it remain quite puzzling, and most do not vote anyway. Mind you, their vote is even more easily suppressed, or subverted than the black vote so frequently is.
1
In general, the democratic candidates are only speaking to those within the democratic party and not the totality of the citizens of the country. I saw nothing except Biden's and Buttigieg's comments that spoke to issues other than those advocated by the left. I think the democrats would have learned from the failures of the past, McGovern, etc. that a leftist agenda simply does not speak to the majority of Americans.
4
@Barbara, good point. They must change their approach and speak to the entire USA people and not their base alone.
1
How about fringe candidates - Ryan, Bennet, Delaney? Lthe Media Machine does not mention them as it tries to create a corporate marketing narrative selling ‘fight of the century’ amongst its darlings (remember what media did to Bernie in ‘16)
1
I've taken to checking location on all comments. Mine says "USA" but I'm actually midwest, more specifically, I live outside a blue city in a red state. You could call my location "purple." A lot like swing states.
If you live in a solid blue state or solid blue urban area......please stand down. You are likely to be surrounded by echo chambers and subject to mistaking your perspective as wholly representing the nation rather than confirmation bias and preaching to the choir.
The average voter doesn't want your revolution. Maybe one or two progressive policies, but not the whole agenda and not a candidate radical to their perspective. They're exhausted by Trump and just want things to go back to normal. Biden would be just fine with them if you'd let it be.
I feel like I'm watching a train wreck in slow motion. It's not that Trump will win, it's Dems will lose.....blow it with blue elitism that disregards the average swing state voter.
11
@gw
I'm in a solid blue state, but I completely agree. I want reform and acknowledge there are some serious issues, but the Democratic party has traditionally been known as the "tax and spend" party, and there needs to be balance. My state used to be known as "Taxachusetts" when Democrats controlled everything. That changed in the early 1990s when we elected a Republican governor. Most governors we've elected since have been Republicans because a substantial portion of the state understand that we work better under a two-party system.
3
I like Biden but worry he will be considered too much part of the establishment and may be seen as old news to dislodge Trump. Kamala Harris is a fresh face with decent ideas and a steely resolve. I believe she will make a good leader. And Trump who has no record to run on and can no longer lean on the “I’m not from Washington” rally cry won’t able to help himself by making nasty racial slurs and misogynist comments.
3
While the Democratic debaters did not make Trump look presidential(no one could do that),they’ve shown that they have a long way to go to make it clear that whoever their candidate is going to be, he or she must have the personality and leadership qualities necessary to beat him for who he is, not just by presenting policy differences between the Republicans and themselves.
Judging by the last two nights, that person is yet to emerge, and there isn’t much time left.
1
honestly these kinds of comments demonstrate to extent to which Trump has conned a large portion of the American public. The fact that you think someone needs to display "leadership skills" to beat him suggests that he has you fooled into thinking that he, himself, possesses those same skills. literally all Trump does is play the perpetual victim, denigrate others, and"diffuse" crises of his own making. not only that, but his supposed business skills are driving the country further and further into debt, much like his failed casinos (because seriously, it takes a special kind of talent for the house to lose).
1
Watching last night's debate, for me there were only two winners, and neither may be our nominee. They were Mayor Pete and Kamala Harris. The rest seemed out of step and even out of sync. I liked them all personally, but there were more times than not when I either rolled my eyes or shook my head. Re Joe Biden, there is little doubt the man is experienced, smart, and ethical. Yet, and I say this as a septuagenarian, it is indeed time for him to pass the torch. In all fairness, I feel the same about Bernie Sanders. True that Joe was targeted from all sides. And he did not deserve to be. However, he seemed to be living in the recent past which worked well then but may not be the case post-Trump.
3
I tuned out before the Biden-Harris interaction but Harris was (is) a prosecutor and ruthlessness is a proven advantage in that game. Biden seems to be a personally decent man and he works well with the opposition (some think, as do I, too well at times).And Harris took advantage of it. Biden may have an electoral advantage but his 'go along to get along' solutions to our problems are too little, too late = just like the Obama administration. You can't do business with thugs like McConnell and Ryan or the GOP in general. Whether or not the American people understand this before it's too late is another thing, Right now the odds seem to be with Trump and Thugs in 2020. They've got SCOTUS, the Electoral College and the MIC. But there is still a chance for democracy, not much. but it's there.
3
Hickenlooper et al. are either remarkably unobservant or deliberately obtuse, either of which is disqualifying. The GOP spent eight years calling Obama a socialist despite the fact that his crowning legislative achievement came straight from the Heritage Foundation to prevent single-payer coverage and he once bragged about being "really good at killing people." If through some series of improbable coincidences, Hickenlooper becomes the Democratic nominee, they will call him a socialist, too.
You might as well nominate a candidate with a clear, self-consistent worldview and multiple plans to improve the lives of the people who suffer the most (i.e., Bernie Sanders) instead of letting the man who thinks fracking fluid is an essential part of a balanced diet be -or in anyway guide- your nominee.
5
I notice no-one has questioned Kamala Harris on her record as prosecutor. Her assertion that she is an advocate for people of color caught up in the system is a lie, belied by her stuffing the jails in San Francisco with inmates serving overly long sentences at her hand when she was city attorney. As state attorney general she operated against the mandate of the people of the state, coordinating with federal officers on raids against marijuana dispensaries that were operating within the state law she was mandated to uphold.
I don't know who I will be voting for yet, but it won't be her.
5
In a way Biden is a spoiler in this race. Many remember him as Obama's VP for which he deserves much credit and after which he should have retired. He brings nothing new to the race and represents past mistakes of the Democratic Party of the 20th (and 21st) Century. He should have retired with his reputation enhanced. Now he will be battered by the younger generation and Bernie with more progressive agendas and brighter shining faces. Biden may have led the polls before this debate but where will he be in Nov 2020 after voters look at him with the events of the 21st Century now in our minds?
Can anyone actually explain what Buttigieg would actually do as President? Yes, he speaks articulately, but when you listen harder you realize he is offering absolutely nothing of substance. His recent troubles in South Bend have also exposed his weaknesses as an executive. If he can't properly manage a town of 102k, how will he manage a country of 329 million?
5
@Ben I think you just described Barack Obama in 2007-2008
3
It was refreshing to see so much true intellect on the debate stage last night as opposed to Trump who cannot even make a coherent sentence in his tweets and his rants. It would be interesting to see Kamala Harris debate Trump. She'd totally dismantle him.
6
Whether the party leaders want to acknowledge it or not, last night, and the night before that, were good nights for the Democratic Party because they made it loud and clear (last night in particular) that there will be no pre-ordained coronation this time and that the nomination will be EARNED. One of the following will happen:
1. Either Mr. Biden will raise his game and show why he deserves to be the front-runner and, ultimately, the nominee; or
2. Mr. Biden will fail to raise his game, someone else will raise his or her game and thus become the deserving nominee.
Either way, the nomination will have been truly earned, and will be better prepared for the general election because of it. The party should embrace this, whoever the nominee winds up being.
7
You know what would be really great? If all state primaries were held on the same date in 2020. As a New Yorker, I have a hard time drumming up the energy to watch these very very early debates because I know that the field will be winnowed down to a handful of candidates by the time the primary voting happens in our state.
Wake me up in April 2020 when I have many fewer candidates to choose from than my fellow Democrats in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada.
5
Harris and Warren clearly the leading candidates, the most substantive and the most commanding stage presence. Biden seemed confused and out of his depth, pausing often searching for words and coherence. He should consider bowing out as I cannot see him beating Trump.
Bernie seems a bit deflated now that many of his proposals are now part of the mainstream narrative.
Beyond clear leaders Harris and Warren, I was impressed by Castro, Klobachar, Gabbard, and Booker. Some winnowing needs to occur, hopefully very soon.
11
It is relatively easy for people who are “new on the scene” to take pot shots at those who have been making the hard choices for decades. Sure they were going to get some things wrong. Or maybe the details were that what they voted for 20 or 30 years ago was actually a compromise for something that started out much worse which is hard to explain when you have just been blindsided by someone in your own party you basically agree with and you have 30 seconds to reply. That’s not how the real world of decision making works. Even Trump changed his mind about attacking Iran when he had a few minutes to think about it and some cooler heads giving him advice.
16
@Steve Cohn
Trump never wanted to attack Iran. The "10-minutes" story is, as always, a mischaracterization. Trump has consistently been anti-war. To claim otherwise is simply wrong and to buy into the ubiquitous "worst possible light" reporting on him.
2
Everyone is understandably fired up about about Harris's performance last night and Biden has nobody to blame but himself for being woefully unprepared. That being said, Harris won't be able to play the race card against Trump - conservatives just don't care. Will race politics win WI, MI, MN, PA, and OH? Frankly winning those states are the only thing that matters for the general election.
14
@Chris
Exactly right. To win, Dems must not ignore the rust belt and must not insult working people. In 2016 HRC did both.
Despite a poor debate performance by Tim Ryan, we should recall that he warned his fellow Dems about both of those issues in 2016. He was right.
8
@Chris
Exactly. And the race card won't play well there. It seems to me that these debates have given Trump his second term.
4
The press and polls had it all wrong. Last night's brawl showed that the real first tier candidates were in the first debate.
7
@Guillemot Warren 2020
Independent voter and I'd like a good reason to vote Dem but labelling Joe Biden a racist and I'm off the train before it pulls out of the station.
Take away: Senator Harris has a career on Broadway stage drama if this president thing doesn't work out.
19
She DID NOT label him as a racist. As a matter of fact, she said the opposite. Her point was that Biden’s remarks about finding common ground with segregationists hurt her on a personal level.
@Ziggy the reference was subliminal. And common ground, if she's elected president, is hopefully something she understands because it's politics. Consensus.
@David
I'm not a psychiatrist, but I take your point. And if your choice is Harris or Trump?
Biden benefited from Obama and now is benefiting from lurch left by the Democratic Party. He was terrible in his VP debate with Paul Ryan. All big toothy grins and mocking responses, but he had Obama to fall back on and still does.
4
I am 68. I am not quite as quick as I once was.
I am also not as arrogant as I once was. I am not as impulsive as I once was. I listen better. I am more thoughtful and compassionate.
Joe is not my first choice. But to disqualify him because he is an “old white guy” is not only bigoted. It is foolish.
Let’s hear them out and vote for our favorite in the primary. Then vote for whoever the nominee is. Let’s act like adults.
36
I was shocked to hear Biden say that he opposed busing because it should be a local decision. Civil Rights were an issue precisely because states and municipalities trampled on and denied rights to women and minorities, just as they are working to suppress the vote. The federal government absolutely must be the protector of rights for all.
5
@Roy
You may be shocked, but his stance 40 years ago shouldn't matter for today. In fact, busing turned out to be a disaster and has been abandoned. What matters are his recent positions and what he will do in the future. That was a low blow for personal gain.
7
Biden was literally just elected to the Senate and had just entered office, or may not have even entered office yet in 1972/73 when Harris was the 8 year old on the bus. It was entirely unfair of her to try to clobber him with this, especially the VP to the country’s first Black President.
3
Kamala Harris is an impressive candidate, but I have reservations about her candidacy's over-reliance on identity, a frequent criticism of Democrats in general and a complete turn-off for potential moderate cross-over voters. I would like to see less of an emphasis on her gender and race, and more of a focus on addressing the issues that really concern voters, namely income inequality, climate change, and health care.
13
Kamala Harris was just purposely hyper-aggressive to hardly call that a debate. Her rhetorical approach was also melodramatic. Reasonable people can judge by themselves what actually takes to be a leader of this country
10
@sor perdida
Yes, it was her responses were rehearsed. "That little girl was me," was mawkish and scripted at the same time.
3
Kamala Harris went over the top yesterday in unfairly attacking
Joe Biden in the manner that she did. She has proven to the
nation that she lacks the sincerity and the grace that is essential to effectively to lead.
16
@Irene Cantu
"sincerity and the grace that is essential to effectively to lead."
really ? look at our current President
obviously lacks both !!
Who sent out the memo to say that Harris won? I thought she was hesitant and not a great speaker, yet the press is falling over itself stating that a star is born. The best debater was Buttigieg. He owned his mistake, was clear, concise, and had a well thought out plan for everything. The same with Warren and Booker the night before. Please reveal the source of your false allegiance to Harris. Otherwise I just don’t get it.
45
@Rainy Night
Pete has zero minority support. Consequently he has zero chance of getting the nomination. He debates well, but he has been mayor for 10 years so it was a little lame for him to say “...I did not get it done...”.
5
@Lefthalfbach Every city in the country has not succeeded in the racial/police problem yet you hold the Mayor to a higher standard than the entire rest of the country? I admired his courage in stating that he did not solve the problem instead of boasting false achievements.
9
@Lefthalfbach
Actually, his admission displayed a refreshing humility and honest that is never seen in a politician. As for Harris, she may get the black vote but will not get moderate and independent voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida. Those are the votes we need for 270 and the White House.
8
The prosecutor in Harris reared its ugly head and while it was not unexpected it demonstrated a mean spirit we see in Trump on a daily basis. I believe Biden will be the nominee and other candidates should heed Obama's admonition to avoid engaging in a circular firing squad. He's going to need an appealing running mate and we don't need another Reagan-Bush ticket where Bush had to walk back his attack on Reagan's "voodoo economics." Biden's best bet is to choose a progressive who can hold back from attacking him. All these candidates have similar platforms and aspirations; the critical objective is to come up with a ticket that can defeat the corrupt and incompetent current president.
12
I keep waiting for the media to wake up and shut down the misrepresentation of what Biden said about the two racist senators he worked with in the past. Biden wasn't praising them, and he didn't compromise on the issue of racism by working with them on issues unrelated to racism. He simply stated a fact of political life that Presidents Franklin Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, etc., faced during their time in office, when all of them had to deal with racists in Congress.
30
Biden should have acknowledged her feelings and then go on to state what he really meant and how he could see how his words could be misconstrued.
Sorry, but if you're going to refer to yourself as candidate-worthy, then referring to Ms. Harris as a "former prosecutor" in reply to something that to her was personal where she claimed she'd been hurt - that kind of a response from Biden was not a "presidential" response.
2
The pundits are all excited as they have found a Democrat who could out-bully the Bully-in-Chief in a debate. To me though, attacking a man such as Biden with an exemplary record of support for equal rights was 'hurtful'.
16
Harris appeared to be attacking Biden for "show." Biden didn't attack her or anyone else. That said something about Harris' character and the kind of executive she would make.
26
I am now on my 3rd version of this post and I am now more certain than ever President Trump and his supporters are dancing in the aisles. Celebrating his re-election in 2020. Having lived through and even worked in a few Presidential elections I understand how difficult it is for candidates to separate themselves from their competitors. What America, not just the Democratic Party, needs today are candidates who are living, thinking and breathing in the moment. I do not care about your childhoods or what you said 10 or more years ago. We all walked different paths to where we are this moment. I do care about where you stand on preserving the Republic, national security, the Environment, health care, rebuilding the nations infrastructure, abolishing the Income tax, balancing the budget and devolving functions to the states. Most importantly to get my vote you need to convince me you are a unifier not a divider. Show me you can build coalitions that energize not polarize Americans and that you are running to the future not from the past.
14
Biden’s record as Vice President should not make him immune to criticism. It is important for candidates to reconcile with moments that their policies have hurt people. It is important for them to listen and understand that going forward they need to do better. Biden’s refusal to admit that his decision about opposing busing was wrong, shows that he does not have that skill. It is candidates with his stubbornness, that we need to scrutinize. Kamala Harris did a good job bringing this to light.
94
@Jada I would say the same thing applies to what the other candidates have said in the past then also. And her atitude turned me off completely. Rather than being supportive of the democratic ticket, she attacked it. She needs to move out from the poor little minority girl who has attitude. It is a turn off and cost her my vote. She made herself unelectable in my book. But as a Vice Presidential candidate I would support her.
10
@Jada I can understand why he opposed bussing, having lived through it.
If you go back and read up on it (and I lived through it), the judges and people wealthy enough to afford it had there kids attend private school so they were exempt. The working class were supposed to put their kids on a bus at government direction to a school an hour away - far from home and their parents - and with kids who they had not neighborhood relations with. And that is to say nothing of getting beat up or bullied as a minority and outsider in their school. That was the reality.
It is easy to be an advocate when you had no kids or were not being impacted. My local public school was 2 blocks away from the house where I lived my whole life and they wanted to bus me to the South Bronx in the 1970's. My parents had little money, but they pulled together what money they had to pull me out of the public school and send me 4 blocks away to the local Catholic school until the idiotic mandate ended a few years later.
7
@PerAxel Now I liked her STRONG attitude! And I think she could take on Trump in a New York minute. He wouldn't even know what happened to him. However, unfortunately I don't think America is ready for a woman president, let alone one who is strong (some might say aggressive) and black. I wish I were wrong and I will support her. Biden WAS my first choice, but after last night, he has lost me. If he is unprepared for these debates, imagine what The Donald will do to him. He , at the moment, does not look up to the job.
11
If only one of them had the grace to admit that the only reason they were debating each other in the first place was because of a stolen election. None of them would have challenged Hillary except perhaps for one very loud and very angry old man.
1
@KGW
One might also say that they are debating one another because HRC both ignored the rust belt and went out of her way to insult working people.
2
Am I crazy or was it JFK who spoke of passing the torch to a new generation of Americans in, I think, his historic Innaugural Address? Joe Biden repeated it on a much later date and I hope he was simply quoting Kennedy and not plagiarizing.
6
For the first debate, I went away thinking of a Warren-Booker ticket. The second debate Harris-Butigieg. So it looks like I’m leaning towards a female POTUS (those two) with a male VP (those two). Otherwise, further debates can lead to constructive discussion. But some folks should go home, and there’s too many to list.
4
Republicans have talked openly and seriously about repealing the 14th Amendment. They seek out and appoint judges who will not unequivocally state that Brown v. Board of Education and other civil rights rulings were right. Republicans move further and further to the right, and Democrats run after them to appease them. Will Democrats run all the way to their side when Republicans have the votes to repeal the 14th Amendment? To return civil rights back to the states? Republicans are a party of no compromise, absolute power, minority rule by any means necessary.
If Democrats want to remain alive as a political force, we certainly don't need a man who channels Jeff Sessions on the "complexities" of integration, nor a woman like Nancy Pelosi who puts political expediency above war crimes and treason.
3
@Gustav Aschenbach
The GOP has opposed the addition of new rights to the group protected by the due process clause, but that isn't the same as opposing the amendment itself. There is a tendency to view every legal opinion in terms of whether or not it supports a particularly ideology or partisan viewpoint and why these interpretations are usually wrong.
@AACNY You offer a good example: you guys parse words and couch extremism in niceties. In some ways, I prefer the Hannities and Spensers over the equivocators and appeasers.
1
@Gustav Aschenbach exactly correct, and very articulate! Culture is above all a perfecting process, where better and better approximations to some utopia unfold over time. Republicans, like the Tories of 1780, the French aristocrats of 1790, and the Russian nobility of 1919, want to turn the clock backward, and kill the 14th Amendment by degrees, returning us to a pre-1776 era. Biden, Pelosi, and most of the prospective candidates on stage last night, want to help do that by appeasement. Only one prospective candidate showed revolutionary passion. I now understand the Reign of Terror, and Lenin’s tactics of 1919-1920 much more clearly.
Kamala Harris knows full well that in the realm of politics, one had to work with others on certain issues, even if the others hold views on issues -- which have nothing to do with that with which the two sides are cooperating -- that are repugnant.
That she even used the word "racist" in a sentence while addressing Joe Biden was cheap and transparent.
She is not presidential material in my opinion.
22
It's abundantly clear Sen Harris seized the moment and VP Biden's long past caught up with him. The pass the torch comment put his candidacy in perspective. Mayor Pete came across as someone wise beyond his years, Sanders as radical as ever, and Gillibrand had a Hilary-like shrillness. (Oh no!) What was surprising is that Medicare-for-All held the field with few dissenters. Amazing.
2
Amazing to see in these comments how strongly many baby boomers already identify with Biden and deplore Harris’ “attack” — which was in fact a legitimate point that Biden failed to respond to coherently. Does he — and do they — really think issues like racial discrimination in schools should be left to local governments to decide? Sometimes it seems our problem isn’t just Trump, it’s a whole, oversized and recalcitrant generation: one with hot emotions, thinning skin, and declining mental acuity. Add to that the usual miseries and fears brought on by aging and... I think it’s time to pass that torch.
5
@Keef In cucamonga
I suspect much of this is Republican trolling - after the last 2 nights they desperately want to avoid Warren and Harris - serious, strong leaders who will destroy Trump in debate, take nothing for granted, and put every ounce of energy into the election
1
I watched the debate
Thought it was great
That Joe's views were questioned
By Kamala Harris
She didn't mean to embarrass
I think that if Kamala
Is the candidate
She should start to holla
At Donald Trump the same way
Maybe he would say
'I don't like what you say
I'm moving to Guatemala'
I will pray for such a day
Let’s not lose track of what really happened last night:
Kamala Harris knows that Joe Biden never in any way praised or endorsed segregationists/racists. She KNOWS that. (Being able to work with people you disagree with, or even loathe, is the mark of a good politician.)
Senator Harris used a TRUMP tactic, lying about the facts to make a point. She exploited her race for dramatic effect. Very cheap and very dishonest. I don’t want another Trump in the Oval Office.
Let’s not get behind that type of behavior.
42
To tell the truth, another devastating attack on Biden came when Senator Bennett said that it is like Biden missed the last 12 years of Republican behavior in the Senate when he talks about civility, bipartisanship and dealmaking in Congress.
I like Joe and I still think he is our best chance to win but Mitch McConnell is not Hugh Scott, the PA GOP senator from my youth. And Joe must make clear that he only did what he had to do in his early days in the Senate. “....Civility and getting stuff done with the Herman Talmadges of the world...” is not a winning platform.
Having said all that, Joe’s lead is based on a coalition of the older two generations of black and white voters. The latter are very pragmatic. In 08, they were with Hillary until Obama won in Iowa and SC, after which Bill Clinton made a series of brainless comments which badly hurt Hillary’s standing with black voters.
So, Biden may not lose black support over last night’s debate but he is not helping himself. That’s for sure.
Also for sure is that Kamal Harris established herself as a force. Honestly, of the 4 women senators running, for that matter of all the senators running, she was and is by far the most impressive candidate.
@Lefthalfbach Sorry, I meant to say that BLACK voters are very pragmatic as in they supported HRC in 08 until it became clear that Obama could win.
White voters, especially liberal/progressive ones, are more likely to vote with their hearts.
Ageism was rampant last night. Strange and offensive tactics when the biggest demographic is older Americans.
11
To be fair, seniors tend to have less energy and mental ability than younger individuals. The president of the United States is on call 24/7/365. It is legitimate to inquire about an 80 year old’s ability to be president. Biology doesn’t care about modern conceptions of discrimination.
6
@Jake
Then why is the near-80 Pelosi so shielded from criticism?
3
@Jake
Pretty shallow thinking and stereotyping. Their are a lot of young people I would not trust to walk my dog. Many of them were on stage last night. Aren't all of us suppose to be judged as individuals. or can Democrats only engage in biased group think?
2
@Interested Reader
While I like her a lot, Kamala has little chance of winning over any 2016 Trump voters.
Her high-drama attack on Biden was great theatre but VERY short sighted, and will likely help Trump in the event Biden wins primary.
The Dems can't stop being the circular firing squad.
Never forget how many people voted for Trump--this country is far from progressive and very poorly informed.
And those Trump voters who previously "voted for" Obama, voted AGAINST Richie Rich Romney--they did not "vote for" Obama.
Wake up before it's too late.
9
I am no fan of Biden's, but Harris's attack was showboating at its best. Her day will come, and we heard a foreshadowing of it in Biden's retort: "At least I became a public defender, while you became a prosecutor."
She will have much to defend in the next round because her history as a prosecutor is quite harsh.
I hope she enjoys her short-lived media adoration. I have lived long enough to have witnessed these sound-bite takedowns. They don't last.
18
@TM Do we need a president who carries a chip on her shoulder like that?
I have so much respect and admiration for Joe Biden but he looked old and tired and not the witty, sharp as a tack person he used to be. So Joe, please, it wasn't meant to be.
I've never been a Bernie Sanders fan. Watching him last night, I really disliked him. He came across as an angry old man. His demeanor, his yelling, really was a turn off.
For me, Kamala and Pete stole the show.
4
Bernie’s ideas are now used by the entire party as it’s platform, so show some respect! As for Harris, I like her but was turned off by her attack on Biden. Biden is not a racist, and her simplification of a complicated issue from 47 years ago, is just plain wrong. In 1972 Biden was would have just barely been elected as the youngest senator. Biden may not have even entered office yet when Harris was the 8 year old girl on the bus she described!!
2
I think that Harris was the clear winner last night with her prosecutorial style of being ready with her comments and Biden was certainly taken aback by her ferocity. Biden did not look strong and lost some ground. Too, Bernie definitely did not look good and has probably lost ground as well. Mayor Pete responded well concerning the situation in South Bend, taking responsibility for the problems there.
It should be interesting to see who makes the cut for the next debate in July from both nights' debates. There will be howling from those who don't make it and sighs of relief from those that do.
2
I had big hopes for Harris but didn't like what I saw. Her attack on Biden was unimpressive. All of the Biden attacks just reminded me of Trumpism. Harris also behaved like a prosecutor which didn't help; I've seen enough of them in courts and have yet to see one who didn't appear to be lying or at least spinning away from the truth. As for all of the candidates raising their hands for health care for illegal immigrants, they could have lost us the election right there. There is an opioid crisis in America, for one thing, and Obamacare did not help lower/mid-income (vs poor) people. It seems that the Democrats are refusing to listen to why people voted for Trump. Trump voters are digging in on America first and my take on that is because many of them are feeling recognized, not because they are racist or whatever, but because they work hard and don't gain much. We can say we know that Trump doesn't help them, but find if these candidates can't find a way to say it to those voters, we're facing a disaster. Trump II will be worse. So last night was not impressive imo. Attacking Biden as a strategy was a waste of time.
15
@PS
How about free healthcare for the American couple with four part-time jobs, and two kids, one of them with chronic health problems?
Absolutely harebrained appeal for free healthcare for people who are undocumented, simply by virtue of the bleeding heart scramble for votes.
Immigrants are not villains. It is a true tragedy that their perceived value -- or lack thereof -- is always in debate. As such, they have become political pawns for both parties.
They were again last night.
To ask Americans who are destitute or within a stone's throw of becoming so, to confer free health care on the undocumented is frankly vulgar and naive and a win for Trump.
Just foolishlessness. Stop it.
5
as much as i considered myself part of the NPR voting populace and still believe i have a minutia of political intelligence to analyze all of the potential Candidates,..i have to admit that the first priority to righting this ship is to remove its Trump. Biden is the only contender who can make a comeback and take over the helm .I consider him like many of professional athletes that have retired and have made a noticable comeback like a Michael Jordan , Michael Phelps , Sugar Ray Leonard and Roger Clemons. Before we Democrats do anything ….just rememver Biden,Biden,Biden,Biden…..et. etc. etc.
4
Cut off the mic of everyone who insists on talking over others and ignoring the time limits!!
And bravo to Mayor Pete for admitting to being a human being and not having all the answers.
10
@Ponderer
Each debate unraveled into shouting, overtalking and interrupting, with that undazzling line-up of moderators failing over and over to command control.
The nights needed people with the gravitas of a Chris Wallace (other party, unfortunately)) or a John Dickerson or a Gayle King.
3
Wednesday’s debate gave me a modicum of hope; last night’s debate was a bit of a mess. It made me wish Warren were back on stage with her clear plans backed by clear ways to pay for them.
That said, here are my takeaways:
Buttigieg is incredibly well spoken and thoughtful in his answers. A la Obama, he speaks in well-crafted, but naturally-delivered paragraphs. He will have a tough time bringing people of color around to support him. I hope we will see more of him. I loved his statement about how the right acts in the name of religion but espouses views that are decidedly un-christian.
Gillibrand simply panders to women over and over and it’s exhausting. She should not be in the race.
Harris was compelling and made a strategic move that may pay off. She got ample attention for her boldness, whether you may disagree with the methods/content. This could mean she is able to go toe to toe with Trump, which is after all the *most* important thing going into the election.
To me, the highlights of the debate (totally unmentioned in the article!!) were the quips from Marianne Williamson (self help guru, as I understand it). She unintentionally provided much needed levity to an otherwise tense debate. I would love for her to simply be present at future debates as a palate cleanser.
5
@Rena Padgett
My guess is that Marianne Williamson as president would make a flurry of phone calls across the globe, call for a peace and compassion meditation curcle, wave smoking sage, and draw on that essential element called mindfulness to start the mending and coalescing. Her presence was welcome.
3
What may be lost in analyzing the Biden-Harris exchange is that Biden is, perhaps unconsciously, reinforcing Trump’s Make America Great Again slogan...that back in the day we were all getting along in Congress and getting things done. The problem, of course, is that the “all” in that formula included racists and segregationists, but did not include the disadvantaged, people of color, and other minorities. Harris’ argument lays bare the lie of “M.A.G.A.” That May be the best campaign argument against Trump.
3
I had great support for Harris before this attack. I do not respect her at this point and our family will not support her. Booker was one area where he proved that he would be the African American version of Trump as he is ALL about Him. Comes now our former California Attorney General chose to join the team of racism attacks. She will no longer have our support.
10
I was more impressed with the candidates in the first night than the second.
8
Any comments on race by Harris are suspect when you consider her actions while a prosecutor. She should look at her own history.
10
Dems are determined to lose White House to Trump in 2020, attacking their most experienced and popular front runner Joe Biden. The best ticket would be Biden for Prez, Harris for Veep. I support Harris, but she took a cheap shot at Biden re his busing stance....he always has supported equality in education, but felt (as do I) that dragging kids all over the place on buses is not the best approach, unless in a rural area where schools are few and far between. I also am tired of Harris proclaiming she was a "prosecutor." The Presidency is not about prosecuting.
9
@Anne Russell It seems that all the people attacking Harris are southern whites. Biden's stand was not ok and that is the real issue. Delaware was a free state but they like Maryland were just as segregated as the southern states. Brown v. Bd addressed school segregation in the south. Bolling v. Sharpe addressed segregation in DC ( both attacking de jure segregation) but none of the decisions addressed de facto segregation in the non slave states like Maryland and Delaware.(technically northern states) which basically Biden supported. So Harris' attack was spot on .
1
I appreciate Joe Biden's reasoned approach and I certainly think he has the character and background to lead our country back to sanity. Our primary goal needs to be to defeat Trump. Biden can do that. He definitely will need a good VP to run with him and that might be a Pete Buttigieg or Amy Klobacher. I will not support Kamala Harris whose anger turned me off.
184
@GetReal18
I agree. I appreciated her passion but felt her engagement of it impacted her ability to put forward a logical argument.
16
@GetReal18
And you aren't angry about Trump?
Kamala sponsored a bill with Rand Paul, of all people, she lacks narrow vision.
Her anger is noble.
15
@GetReal18
You might need to watch that video again. To me, Biden was angrier and less controlled in his speaking than Harris. After watching so many dynamic, compelling speakers the past two nights (Harris, Warren, Klobuchar, Castro), I can't support someone (Biden) who gave such a flat performance. Even the NY Times critics found him hard to follow! We don't need a safe candidate, we need an exciting one.
25
Unfortunately, despite his experience, record and recent face lift (yes, face lift) Biden didn't make it last night, although I can't condone Ms. Harris' behavior.
2
So long, Joe Biden You could not keep up or respond in kind to the attacks from Harris and the others. Sanders is spending himself into irrelevance. There is no way any tax on Wall street will provide enough funding for free college and Medicare for all. It will come down to Harris vs. Warren, and either will be torn to shreds by Trump when their big government, and even bigger federal spending plans for America are vetted.
I have yet to see a male candidate be criticized for being "opportunistic" or "political."
Of course it's political, folks. That's politics.
9
@AG
Booker has certainly been criticized on both counts.
5
@AG
Maybe that's because they're less shrill in announcing their lack of merit.
20 potential candidates. None are obese. All of this focus on health care but the root of the problem is education. The American people wouldn’t need so much health care if they took an interest in their health.
4
Biden and Harris would be a great ticket with Elizabeth Warren as Secretary of Treasury. There is so much talent on that stage to immediately fill positions that are now basically vacant.
2
@Ernest Ciambarella Perhaps if Harris is the presidential nominee and Biden is the vp.
1
President Trump was the winner and he was not even on stage. Whoever is the Democratic presidential candidate will not win against our current president. Trump 2020 without a doubt.
6
@KMW
When I see the photo of this president all nice and cozy with Vladimir Putin, knowing full well he meant what he said a few days ago about being willing to accept help from a foreign govenment in order to win (like he did in 2016) -- and then insulting what few allies we have left , including the G20 host nation! I cringe at the thought of him being in office for another 4 years.
4
It's consistent with today's victim culture in America that Harris' conduct scored her points in this debate. I myself was disgusted. I don't want self pity from my candidate of choice. I don't want someone reaching into the distant past to score political points with made-for-TV bombast. As to Biden, he is not my ideal candidate, but as regards race, I just have one response. Obama. Biden was Obama's VP and it's obvious that there was and is a remarkable personal bond of friendship and mutual respect between them. That doesn't jibe with Harris' smears. While I was impressed with Harris prior to the debates and had wondered why she polled so poorly, Harris lost my support. But I understand that in a victim culture, she was doing what gets one ahead.
9
Buttigieg and Castro (and Yang and Gabbard) expressed appreciation and gratitude for their opportunities as Americans. Class acts. The kind of patriotic attitude I want in my president, and that can beat Trump.
Buttigieg (and Yang) expressed appreciation and gratitude for their opportunities as Americans. Class acts. The kind of attitude I want in my president.
Kamala Harris did the right thing is challenging Joe Biden. That's a major purpose of debates to show that you can defend your past and present positions. It would be a disservice to the Democratic Party and the nation to give Biden a "free pass" (as a senior citizen!) and then have him ripped to shreds by a mocking, demeaning Trump. If he can't take punch now, we all need to know it. Second, Kirsten Gillibrand provided very important information about the bill she and Bernie Sanders have written allowing for a "public option" transition to "Medicare for All." Third, Kamala Harris showed, like Amy Klobuchar yesterday, the most witty comment and calm presence by gently scolding her overly argumentative colleagues that "We don't need a food fight, but to put food on the table." She dominated the stage in the best way possible with warmth and a passionate personal story. Fourth, Pete Buttigieg showed he's not only the most brainy candidate, but that he has a heart and does care. Fifth, Bernie Sanders seemed to be the one-note, somewhat overbearing candidate who disappeared as the night wore on. This was a great debate for the Democrats and should help inform all those paying attention about what they like and dislike about the candidates.
172
@Paul Wortman
I don't think Buttigeg holds a candle to Warren re: intellect, and while Sanders may appear overbearing with his insistence that we focus on health care and income disparity, the failure of the Democratic Party to do so in 2016 spelled doom for its candidates.
12
...there seems to be a desire to build Harris up, but she was toxic, tearful, and terrible.
Go Pete! Smart, cool, sincere.
30
@Paul Wortman No, Harris really wasn't all that. She was terrible, disrespectful and attacking Biden's history which included much good that she ignored. She was in my top four but no way now. And dominated? Hardly. But more importantly, aren't you tired of the need to crush one another? Aren't you tired of a president who tries to kill off opposing views? I found it kind of stupid to show the world they can fight when we need healing more than more blows.
22
At this point I'm not doing a lot of analysis for content, just watching interactions and presentation while thinking "could I bear to have this person deliver speeches in front of me for four years?". Based on that criteria nobody's won anything; a number of them have lost any chance for my vote.
It's turning into an elimination process rather than a selection process.
5
@Margo
With 20 candidates, that exactly what it has to be at first. Once the field is whittled down to 6-8 persons, you can start thinking about selection rather than elimination.
One can hope it happens quickly, however. Campaign finance law states that candidates cannot share their donations, so the biggest downside of having so many is that donors are diluted (and that includes small donors too), essentially guaranteeing that the Republicans have more money going into 2020. Right up there is the large number of candidates who simultaneously are senators running for reelection at a time when the Dems can't afford to lose a single seat due to complacency. If this goes on too long, the ability of the Dems to take the Senate become severely reduced.
ete Buttigieg speaks with the same empty, glittering generalities as did President Obama. I don’t trust him to do anything as President other than tend to his political self-interest. We need someone unafraid to incur the wrath of the corporate establishment to reset America on the path to true shared prosperity and opportunity. Buttigieg is not that person, in my judgment. We need a Bernie, Elizabeth, or, perhaps, Kamala.
3
It's true that Harris was harsh about Biden's past on the busing issue. Biden has a history of compromise and working with Republicans. But those days are over. Now we have a president that blatantly does whatever he wants, a Supreme Court that says gerrymandering? Sure! Mitch McConnell won't even allow a vote on house bills. Obama's Supreme Court nominee wasn't allowed a vote in the Senate. The days of compromise are over.
5
@Tye
As a Democrat I am desperate for a candidate who would (sometimes) compromise and work with Republicans. What are you thinking? Just more gridlock? Jeeesh.
2
Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders both have an important role to play in electing a Democratic president, but not as the eventual nominee. They should put their experience and skill to work in service of someone less invested in the past and more gifted with a clear vision of the future.
Kamala Harris will not energize progressive voters by savaging those, like Biden, who fought for equal rights in earlier times. A winning approach would be to express gratitude for their service on the road to equality but suggest that new voices are needed for the fights to come.
8
One thing was clear to me watching the debates: we need each and every one of these 20 candidates campaigning for the Democratic Party and against Donald Trump through November 2020. Whoever drops out of the race needs to get back in line and champion those left in the race. We need a resounding victory against Trump.
11
I sincerely hope people don't think the second debate was a better show because it was more raucous, 'entertaining,' and candidates attacked each other. That's how Trump won, putting on a show, and he's been putting on a show since. We need to get a grip on reality.
4
Every Democratic primary candidate should be playing to win. That’s how the presidency is won. Learning to debate in hostile territory and playing to win while maintaining ethics and humanity is the point. A debate with President Trump will make the debate last night look very civil. Senator Kamala Harris was a winner and Vice President Biden was not.
3
Every candidate on that stage owed a debt to Bernie. Nearly all of the issues have been ones that Bernie has put forth and tirelessly promoted over the past 5 years. What was once nearly unthinkable — Medicare for all, eliminating special interest money etc, are now ideas embraced by the entire party. The other candidates and the moderators should have made that clear.
5
@GO
Yes. And for the 10 candidates the day before. Bernie and his supporters have been somwhat transformative. Let's keep the ball rolling.
Biden didn't tank but he certainly wasn't on his A-game. I remember the VP debates from 2008 and 2012. Whoever was on stage last night wasn't the same guy. It was like watching a tired driver trying to focus on the road. He would snap-to for a few seconds of intense clarity before drifting back off into a muddled stupor. Rinse and repeat.
Harris for her part did alright. However, she didn't really steal the show. She did about as well as you would expect from a highly talented, desperately ambitious politician struggling to gain notoriety. There was an expectation for Harris and she met it. I could say the same thing about most of the names on stage though.
The only person who came across as disproportionately articulate was Eric Swalwell. He's not my style but he was the only name that actually exceeded expectations. As mentioned before, Biden was the only one that really underwhelmed. Everyone else was batting .300 for the night. We know their strengths and weaknesses and they mostly conformed to them.
That leaves us to rely on substance such as it is. I personally don't need a blanket promise to eliminate private insurance. That would be my preferred outcome. The private insurance industry is a twisted mess once you've seen the other side. However, I understand the need for transition.
That said, Joe Biden clinging tight to Obamacare is not the answer I want to hear from any candidate. Obamacare was destroyed by special interests. Biden is promising more of the same.
1
I'm not sure why plans for a single-payer health insurance system are defined in terms of whether or not the continued existence of private insurance would be allowed. When I lived in Belgium, I was by default enrolled in the national health system. Additionally, I purchased low cost supplemental private insurance, which covered certain non-essential services, none of which were crucial to my receiving good health care. I see no reason why a similar system couldn't be implemented in the USA.
16
Let me start by saying I’m 74. And a retired Clinical Psychologist. Who well realizes we all are affected by aging. Here’s what I noticed from Biden’s remarks last night:
To me Biden appears to be showing his age in terms of his hesitant speech, his seeming need to pause and search for a word or a term more common in today’s political environment than in that of our youth. Our youth - long ago. In the 60’s and 70’s. I mean the 1960’s and 1970’s. He seemed to need to search just for words quite a lot. His comments lacked fluency. At times his facial appearance looked to me like he was befuddled. Confused.
This is in stark contrast to the fluency of Elizabeth Warren in particular. Warren has no difficult navigating most any subject and speaking with fluency and eloquence in the process. Other younger candidates also demonstrate such fluency, particularly Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg. (Perhaps I am betraying my own preferences in saying this, but I base it on long experience observing people in the process of making clinical judgments.
We’re I evaluating Biden’s ability to take on the rigors of the presidency, I have to be honest: I would have to advise him to back off and put the welfare of the country fist; to let a younger or more verbally/intellectually fluent candidate take over the show.
Biden seems to bristle when criticized. We don’t need that. He seems not entirely “with it” in terms of his ability to speak/think fluently. We don’t need that.
98
@TheraP
I am only a tad younger than Joe and you.
You’re right. I’m not quite as quick as I was. I am also not as impulsive. I am more experienced. I am more thoughtful. I am more compassionate. I am more willing to listen. I am wiser.
Especially now, those things matter too.
50
@TheraP
Which candidate is most likely to get any part of the progressive agenda passed? As a psychologist you must realize how difficult it is for ideologues, like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, to agree, adapt and compromise with opposition, with which they will surely be met.
Additionally, how will someone even less experienced than Obama, like Buttigieg, ever manage again our most seasoned Congressional "warriors". In Obama, democrats put a rookie quarterback into the equivalent of a Super Bowl Game. Why would they do this again?
9
@Franco51
I entirely endorse your comment, Franco 51.
It is vital that elect someone who can take on the rigors of digesting and parsing new information every single day, someone who has (who STILL has) superior intelligence, compassion, and the humility to put the needs of the PEOPLE first.
Biden clings to Obama. When searching for words, he seems to either want to cling to coattails (which is pitiful actually) or to revert to his old positions or friends.
We need to look forward. We MUST pass the Torch. That’s the Ethical thing to do.
27
Kamal Harris seemed to draw energy from the adversarial nature of the debate and from Biden's presence as a target. Maybe it was the prosecutor in her. I wonder whether she would have performed as strongly had she been in Elizabeth Warren's place on the first night, when there would have been no target for her and, with a few exceptions, the other candidates were less inclined to fight. It seems that, of all the candidates, Kamala Harris would do best against Trump in the debates, but a presidential campaign is more than debates.
25
@CH
Hillary bested Trump in the debates too. Kerry bested Bush in the debates. The substance of the debates don't really matter. It is what the candidates exude throughout the debate and how they resonate with the voters. When I saw that moment, I saw a shrill, black angry woman who will not play well in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida and importantly, independents we lost in 2016 because they couldn't stand Hillary. I don't think they'll be able to stand Harris either. She may have enthralled the progressives on the coasts, but I doubt those states that we need will find her very endearing.
Sadly, right now, I am not optimistic about winning in 2020. Both of the debates will provide ads for the republicans. All they have to do is replay the clips. It seems that the democrats need to keep losing to realize that America is center-right, not center-left.
3
@CH
Sure is. Which makes her an excellent candidate.
@CH Her closing was terrible. She had no gusto or inspiration. It was surprising. It was obviously fully rehearsed. Odd! No one seems Presidential except Bernie. And maybe Di Blasio. I’m beginning to think ... Andrew. Omg.
1
I am tired of the phrase "pass the torch," as if maturity and experience were a detriment. I am also tired of the phrase "old white men," as if we are necessarily going to be better served by someone who can't be described that way.
I would like to stick to their views and their records, and how their knowledge and experience are suited to getting us out of the mess Trump has led us into with our friends and allies. We don't need a symbolic president, we need a capable one.
127
@Deb Pass the torch is particularly annoying when the person saying it also says "to me."
At this point anybody over 70, white, and male is going to be called shambling ie incoherent by the media at some point.
3
@Deb
BRAVO!
3
@Deb
And this obsession with identity politics and the notion that we have to have a woman or person of color on the ticket will bring another Trump term. The states we lost in 2016 are not obsessed with "old white men".
3
Biden isn’t my first choice. But if he’s the nominee, he gets my vote.
The field will thin out, and we’ll have our candidate.
Then the important part.
No disqualification by age or gender or race. No disqualification because someone is too progressive or too centrist. No sulking. No staying home. No third party votes. No pseudo-noble posturing. There’s no room for such childish, foolish behavior.
If we, and all the candidates, stick together in 2020, we win. If not, we don’t.
159
@Franco51 I will happily vote for a third party candidate if the Democratic nominee is as abhorrent as Clinton was and no one can bully or shame me into doing otherwise.
@Will
Duly noted. We should all what we genuinely feel is best for the country. Good for you!
I voted for HRC with very little enthusiasm. I think she lost by ignoring the rust belt and insulting working people. Still, I fear that, as happened last time, votes for a third party candidate only help ensure more Trump. But if that’s what you want, go for it, by all means.
4
@Will so we have you to thank for Trump. Ridiculous.
1
My 4 favorite candidates (in no particular order) are Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, Pete Buttigieg, and Kamala Harris. That said, I am most interested in defeating Trump and saving the planet from human caused destruction. Which is partly to say that the candidates I most like are not directly connected to the issues I most care about. Very strange.
I am curious to know who others would list as their favorite four and their most important issues and how they correlate.
14
@Diane Jacobson Klobuchar, Warren (reluctantly but based on the debate), had hoped for Harris but she was too much a prosecutor last night, Biden (experience is a good thing), and no longer have a fourth but hats off to Sanders for his consistency.
2
@Diane Jacobson
Warren, Harris, Buttigieg. In that order. At this point, I have no fourth favorite, but that could change. That said, I will vote for whoever gets the nomination. Our nation, our world, simply cannot withstand another 4 years of Trump and his destructive administration. I seriously doubt that there will be another chance to save our nation should the Dems lose in 2020. It will be too late by then.
1
@Diane Jacobson
Most important things are to win back the rust belt rather than ignore it, and win back working people rather than insulting them.
5
I had not been a Mayor Pete fan before yesterday, thinking, "Why is the kid mayor wasting our time?"
And I still don't think he's got a chance.
But he was, by far, the most impressive person last night. I get why people love him now.
193
@ycl
There is a big difference between being extremely intelligent and brilliant speaker and being able to deliver. One would think democrats would have learned that lesson by now.
4
@AACNY
Being intelligent and a brilliant speaker, get you a long way to being able to deliver, look at Bill Clinton. I think the rest of the democrats just like to talk.
When Sanders was asked during the debate of how he would deliver Medicare for all once he became President. His response was that there would be a revolution from the people to get it done and that how he would get it done.
8
@ycl
Give him time. He'll go far in the future.
3
I really don’t like the debates being turned into the political equivalent of beauty pageants. The field is far too big, the timing is far too early, to expect anything of any import to come from this. Nothing of substance was said to inform any voter’s opinion of anyone on stage beyond simple optics.
All these “debates” did was give GOP strategists and others enough cannon fodder (not to mention Twitter material) to stockpile and use when things truly begin to get real in about a year or so, when substantive, realistic policy ideas and details will matter. But thanks to these grandstanding charades, the party will come out looking like a laughingstock — again.
16
In the end it really doesn't matter what most of them say. The "progressive" candidates are choosing their positions, for now, based on what they think will get them the nomination. Harris and Gillabrand, and even Biden, are tracking left of their actual political histories while campaigning, but once in office they will "compromise" so as not to challenge the money interests on wall street and in corporate board rooms.
Bernie is the exception. In his long political career he has never wavered from his commitment to progressive policies. With Bernie you know what you're getting, and that's why so far he still has my vote.
14
It's time for Biden to get off the stage.
30
@Paul
and for Bernie to go as well
1
I watched Wednesday's debate with interest, nut Thursday evolved into a cat fight, not a debate.
10
@Austin Weird,
Agree...if these debates are mostly attack messaging against other people , shouting and mostly void of policy content then there is already a candidate who has mastered these methods...
His name is Trump.
1
@Austin Weird
A cat fight? Please! Americans have no idea how to debate. They are so afraid of real confrontation.
Want to know how to make the border crisis much worse? By offering illegal immigrants free healthcare if they manage to illegally cross the border.
58
@Jake
They already have it; it's called the Emergency Room. It's a long-standing part the Hippocratic Oath.
What is your alternative? To allow fellow human being to die to make so sort of political point?
Let's state the real argument here: some of us think we should provide health care for sick children no matter where they are born while others would rather take the money needed to provide this service and hand it over to the richest 1% of Americans.
10
@Jake As a legal immigrant, I am struggling to understand what exactly is illegal anymore. Are there any consequences at all to entering the country illegally outside of registered ports of entry?
It is absolutely clear based on last night's debate that there is NONE. As an illegal immigrant you are eligible for free healthcare AND will not be deported. You can get driver's licenses and can stay here indefinitely.
Why did I wait 11 years to get here legally? This country is truly doomed if this is somehow mainstream thinking.
15
@Jake
Democrats' complaining about our inability to safely handle the influx they have created is like a firefighter starting a fire and then rushing in to rescue people.
8
For the high caliber of people on stage, the overall performances could have been better. Some behavior - candidates answering and asking questions out of turn, the collective ganging up on Biden, saying that Buttigieg should fire his police chief when the mayor was being professional - were rude and completely wrong for trying to make politics civil. With a few exceptions, it was very disappointing.
47
I hate sports metaphors, but here’s a quote from today’s NYT about women’s soccer: “Julie Foudy, a former captain of the national team and a two-time World Cup winner, said of Ms. Rapinoe and her teammates: ‘In a way that I have never seen before, this team seems to unapologetically own their voice. It’s O.K. to be confident. I no longer need to apologize for saying I want to win. I don’t need to say I’m sorry because I’m competitive.’”
And there you have it. Based on comments here, what with all the Harris-bashing, we still seem to have a problem with women who dare to run and win and who have the qualifications and street cred to do so. It’s incredible to me how inherently afraid Americans are of real change, and yet we’ve been faced with the most horrible alteration of our political and ethical landscape during this most abhorrent current Administration. Why go backwards when, finally, we have such powerful,and charismatic candidates such as Warren and Harris, the likes of whom will fight Trump in ways old Joe and Bernie can’t conceive?
15
@Auntie social
The champion of powerful and charisma is Trump. Trying to fight him using his methods will fail as he’s a master of showmanship.
Like them or not, Joe and Bernie’s old ways involve character and demeanor, anything else and you’re playing to Trump’s strengths. You won’t win the election playing in his arena, his game, his methods and by his rules.
3
@Auntie social
I don’t think inherent prejudice against women is the issue. S (After Trump most of us want to go back to some kind of norms of civility. Yesterday was peppered with ageism(Swalwell) and mischaracterizations i.e. lies (Harris). I would love to see a woman president but not that way.
3
Is your point that any criticism of a woman is because of sexism? Because that is patently false. Harris is a wannabe dictator who had no problem prosecuting minorities for minor crimes and ignoring the rights of defendants. That merits criticism.
1
Mayor Pete showed a very deft touch. He's very calm, very smart and he knows how to talk to people.
While Harris may have won the debate in terms of getting attention, Mayor Pete showed why he would be a great President.
100
@HL Leader of the World? I think not. He’s young but he’s no John F Kennedy. Kennedy and Trump make up for inexperience by being smart Alpha males whose libido elevates them. But the Mayor is just a smart technocrat not a force of nature.
@Richard
Kennedy and Buttigieg share military service in war. Both of them are highly intelligent and driven.
Attacking women and children doesn't make you an alpha male. It makes you an insecure bully. Attacking women physically makes you a criminal.
11
Government run health care, (just like socialism) is a terrible idea! Trump wins again.
6
@Mark - Every other developed nation on the planet pays less and has better results than we do. You've been proven wrong.
5
@Mark
Beyond the stereotypes, could you elaborate why is so terrible? Most develop countries have government run health care. What is a terrible idea is having a grotesque "defense" budget, which is actually and "aggression" budget.
5
@Mark
Yes ! We should also rid ourselves of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public education and the national highway system as these are also socialism.
Sarcasm intended...
4
A glaring oversight for all of the families touched by the opiod epidemic is that not one candidate even mentioned it except Joe Biden. I feel like I am back in the 80's during the AIDS epidemic and no one want to offer real solutions. Insurance companies are turning down treatment for HEP C, even after courts order it. Big pharma charges billions to treat it, and it is a bi-product of the opiod epidemic. I like Kamala Harris until she decided to tell over Biden's response to her. Very Trump-like! I would like to hear Joe Biden's ideas on the opiod crisis also----if anyone cares to stop yelling! Let's not imitate Trump.
10
I think there are a lot of Republicans in today’s comment section. And it’s clear whom they fear most.
17
This primaries are for Biden to lose. It’s difficult to understand why VP Biden didn’t prep better. Senator Harris’ forceful questions were expected yet, Mr. Biden stuttered incoherently and weakly. This is not how you can confront Trump who will run over him.
21
@Ted. He’s simply not at his best. Some people age differently from others. He’s tired and unsure of his words. I love him, but a young gaffer turns into an old gaffer.
1
One of the questions that this debate was supposed to answer was whether or not the two oldest candidates had the stamina to go the distance.
Both of these men went into it with targets on their backs. Sanders handled the attacks on his health care plan well and gave as good as he got throughout the evening. Biden, I thought, did himself no favors even before Harris jumped him. His answers were often rambling and sometimes bordered on incoherent.
Whether Harris helped or hurt her cause remains to be seen. My guess is that it will hurt her with some older moderate voters but will help her with those who want, above all else, a nominee who can take on The Donald on a debate stage. She’s not my favorite candidate but in oh so many ways having seen her in action last night, that would indeed be a thing of beauty.
Buttigieg held his own. I don’t think he advanced his cause much but he also did not hurt it. He’s very articulate but also very young.
As for the rest, I had high hopes for Hickenlooper, possibly the most accomplished candidate in the race but he did not come off well. TV is not his friend. Neither did Gilibrand, Yang (who I also was interested in hearing from) or Swalwell. Bennet was somewhat better.
Dear DNC, please, next time could you find a way to swap out the guru for Governor Bullock?
4
@Brooklyncowgirl
Like your assessment on the performance of the candidates.
For me, Mayor Pete shows that he is smart, well articulate, and has a cool head. Score A-
Harris shows that she is a formidable debater. Her confrontation with Video over his 70s action reflects her fighter spirit and skill (good match with Trump). But the topic in itself seems a well calculated move to attack the frontrunner. It is for her showing more than exposing Biden's sin. Score B.
You know Obama was unprepared to be President. Too young. If he would have waited and let Hillary be elected he could have served as Vice President for 8 years. Then he could easily have been elected President for 8 years. No, he had to cancel Hillary's one chance to be President. Now Harris is doing the same thing to Biden. For highly intelligent people they are acting carelessly. Harris would make an excellent President. So would Biden. So would many of the Democratic candidates for the ticket. But for the love of God can we please be responsible in that choice.
I am sorry but the Southern states where the race for President will be decided, will not vote for a woman or a person of color. They have a long road before they will if ever.
I may be wrong. I remember saying that Bill Clinton would never get elected!
1
@Zappo
I didn’t want to state what you wrote, but you’re probably right. Trumps base is unmovable, around 35-40%, Dems base is about the same and will support any nominee, it’s thats remaining group that must show up and vote.
A woman and/or person of color (characteristics that should not matter at all) will not win the 20-30% of voters who must show up and vote Democrat.
While timing is important, Clinton would never, ever, have my vote.
2
It is not about being attacked. He did a very poor job...as if he had not prepared himself for this debate. While the rest of candidates raised their hands he did not do it but said he did. That happened twice. At times he looked even dumb, when he was asked what he would do day one if he become president, he answered: defeating Donald Trump. No matter how much help he gets from the media and corporation, this guy is not going to sin. He is much worse than I thought.
10
Boy, they really buried Yang in this debate.
9
@me
I immediately wanted to share a three-hour lunch with Yang to learn about a fascinating world I'm aging out of. Someone grab that man and co-opt his abilities for best use for our country. Very impressive!
2
Biden handled the attacks with grace and dignity, just as he will with the inevitable attacks from Donald Trump.
Anyhow, no wonder that Biden had competitors piling up on him - he’s the one to beat.
8
Kamala Harris lost my support with her unnecessarily harsh attack on Joe Biden. It seemed like a desperate plea for attention, not a sign of strength.
82
@Diane
I respectfully disagree. Joe Biden has to show that he can still function at a high level under pressure. And he was way off the reservation when he talked about civility with Talmadge and Eastland.
9
@Diane
To me, Harris’ “attack” was very measured. She started by stating she was sure he’s “not a racist.” Then she told her short story of a “little girl who was bussed.” Followed by “I was that little girl.”
She gave him an opportunity to apologize or see the wisdom inherent in her story. But he didn’t.
Biden sought the presidency twice in the past. He did not succeed. His desire to sit in the White House is understandable.
But his time has passed. And he can’t let go of that torch. He said so last night!
The Wisdom of Age includes humility. Joe seems to lack this essential quality.
6
Any of them would be better than Trump, and this from a life-long Republican. My rationale isn’t based on specific policy propositions, but on the broader threat to liberal democratic institutions, the rule of law, free press, and the notion that there are verifiable facts, that Trump’s populist personality-cult poses. That said, if the Dem party nominates a candidate in 2020 who espouses free healthcare for illegal immigrants, the abolition of all private health insurance, and free college for every American ( where the middle class will get stuck with most of the bill) we’ll see four more years of Trumpism.
49
I want to defeat Trump, period, exclamation point! And I believe we need to seek common ground to siphon the moderate republicans away from the Fox and Friends GOP. As such, we need to wrap up the primaries quickly so all this leftist, socialist rhetoric can be stripped from the conversation and the candidate can tack back to the center. We need to stop the hysteria on both sides and get real, or we are doomed to another 4 years of the orange leader. Joe is too weak. A strong moderate progressive — Mayor Pete or Harris would be great. You know they are pandering to the left just to get through the primary season. Let’s get this circus over and move on to the main event.
17
I feel that these people, the Democratic Party's presidential candidates for 2020, may be the country's last chance. We need, I think, a very strong antidote to Trump, something to wipe away his legacy as much as possible and send a clear message to white nationalism that they cannot have this country "back." Biden may be leading in the polls right now, but I don't think he can do that. Harris sure could.
8
@me, what an odd question. White nationalists are a minority. As president, Harris would represent the vast majority of Americans, not "black nationalists." She has far more in common with most Americans than Trump.
The Democrats need to understand that the purpose of the next election is to beat Trump not each other. The Democrats love to pick outlier candidates but this generally blows up in their face, just look at Dukakis and McGovern, choosing candidates like James and Mayor Peter is like pouring gasoline on themselves and then lighting it with a match. Harris is combative and would make a great foil for Trump in a debate but that is not running the country. She wants to talk about race but this country is more than about race, it is about so many other major major issues.
9
The question I'm asking myself is, which one of these people is going to be able to engage with world leaders in a meaningful way and undo the damage done by Trump?
Joe Biden? Certainly has global name recognition and experience. But Trump has cultivated such a deep mistrust of free trade, Biden would have to tread very lightly in this regard, or risk alienating moderate Trump supporters (if there is such a thing) or more Socialist leaning millennial voters.
Buttigieg? I like him, he's smart, he speaks a bunch of languages, but no. Too inexperienced in this regard.
Kamala Harris? Maybe. She's certainly experienced in her dealings with international policy in the Senate. But her waffling on important domestic issues makes me wonder if she would do the same in negotiations with world leaders, i.e. tell the American people what they want to hear, and then, like the astute prosecutor she is, cut deals behind closed doors. That's politics as usual, perhaps. But if there's anything we can learn from the 2016 election is that people distrust attorneys (i.e. Hillary Clinton) more than they distrust corporate robber barons.
Bernie Sanders? He's certainly attuned to the global position of the U.S. in relation to other developed countries, especially on the subjects of social services and social justice. But for people who need to be constantly reassured that the U.S. is the greatest country on earth, Sanders' reality check may be a pill too bitter to swallow.
5
I admire both Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders, but it is time for them to leave the field.
Joe has had a great career as a Senator and was an outstanding VP for Barack Obama, but he really seemed overwhelmed last night and I cannot see him sustaining a high-quality performance for the next 16 months.
Bernie has had a tremendous impact on public policy and has moved the Democratic Party in a positive direction - he needs to accept that this will be his legacy. Age is a major liability but his acceptance of a socialist label will be too toxic to win (unfortunately). Warren is similar on policy - if she wins, Bernie wins.
Over the 2 nights, I'd say Warren is the biggest winner. Harris and Booker increased their viability. I think Bennet and Inslee are potentially strong general election candidates who are being overlooked. Castro, Ryan, Klobuchar and Buttigieg should also advance to the next round and Bulloch deserves a look. I've seen enough of the others.
15
These debates make it clear that Biden is the only Democrat who can beat Trump. Free healthcare for illegal immigrants and open borders are simply unacceptable to most of the population.
33
After the debates, I am a bigger Booker fan. Sadly, I don't think he can win. As a woman, I don't think any of the women can win and I don't want Mayor Pete (far too young and inexperienced). Against Trump, I think we are looking at Biden as our best chance (unless Bennett or Inslee can gain traction). The more a Dem candidate attacks other Dems the further down my list that person falls.
14
Trump will win if we don’t have a more moderate candidate!
1) No choice with healthcare?
2) What GOP will see as “open boarders” with that raise of hands.
3) Harris really endorses busing today?
My vote is with Bennett!
5
The white US male with no college degree. He belongs to a socio-economic group that voted 67% in favor of Trump in 2016.
If he was watching last night, I wonder what he thought of decriminalizing illegal immigration and providing health insurance for undocumented persons while his own employer provided plan is cancelled pending a government run replacement?
45
@Mike Edwards
So is your argument that since GOP is organized specifically to please white rural males that the Democrats should do the same? Sounds very specious to the 65-70% or so of us that aren’t white rural males.
3
"Mr. Biden did not appear as unsteady as he has in some other recent public appearances, but he also may not have fully convinced Democrats that, as their nominee, he would be able to parry Mr. Trump’s hectoring attacks next year. "
I thought he performed miserably. He looked aimless and weak. Which made me sad, because I like the man and had high hopes for his campaign to be a uniter against Trump.
But can anyone see him on a stage with Donald Trump? I cringe at the prospect.
My biggest fear is that Democrats will over-analyze every single gesture, statement, and position vis a vis Donald Trump. It's sort of like what they're doing in the face of deep Congressional attacks from the White House. Pelosi's determination not to pursue something that virtually screams out for attention, to me, seems like paralysis via analysis.
Whatever candidate gets picked, they'd better be a fighter because they will be up against a fighter who doesn't fight fair.
Donald Trump will attempt to drag down any candidate to his own ugly level. Democrats better see that, and come up with a strategy that shows their strength compared to his weaknesses.
21
And it is on the back of these types of attacks by Kamala Harris that the chance of four more years of President Trump becomes that much greater.
48
Democrats -- please stop the personal attacks. Focus on policy, and what can work for America. Do not lose sight of DT. We have a talented, intelligent roster of candidates, any of whom would make a better president. One of them must become president in 2020, but which one is less important. If Joe Biden is our current leader, it does not help to take stabs at him.
16
Biden wants to walk us down memory lane and see all the wonderful things he's done. But that calls us to forget some of the failings. His bungled handling of the Judiciary Committee where he allowed Sen. Specter to do a hatchet job on Anita Hill and ultimately allowed an unqualified candidate in Clarence Thomas to slip by and become one of the weakest SCOTUS justices in history. Forget about his entire voting record. The stands he took on the Iraq war, world diplomacy etc. that turned out to be wrong. At no time in his life was he qualified to be President especially at this time. Pass the torch Joe it's time for you to go.
18
Well I was disappointed with the overtalking. Talking heads are trying to state that Harris was the winner. I saw a know it all who locked up thousands of minorities who stated she was legally justified not a progressive telling Joe Biden that he was old and out of touch. How about the pain of lynching ? Sorry she was on a bus but so were thousands of other children and they still are.why is her pain more important than others? Since when did age become the litmus test to be a leader? Should older people be forced to a concentration camp because no one wants to hear from them anymore?why aren’t the older people who control Wall Street be asked to step aside?This generation torch is a marketing myth, John Kennedy said more than that sentence in his speech. we need brilliance and leadership not slogans by anyone young or old. Do the work and know the subject matter
Bernie was telling the hard fact of life in Washington and we wouldn’t be talking about health care if it wasn’t for him he called out the rot and whether we don’t like the messenger listen to the message.
Mayor Pete should of been uniting with Andrew Yang who has started and run technology companies he is telling us that A.I. Is here and we are not prepared and no one wants to listen. Andrew has a special needs child he knows what the health card center doesn’t do.
One thing we need to realize the entire country is suffering and you need strategic plans and you need to inform the public no matter what your age
15
I watched Wednesday's debate with interest, but when Thursday evolved into a cat fight I turned it off, because the childish interruptions turned me off. I expected some leadership. Harris at least tried to tone it down. The rest of the mob indicated to me that they don't have the skills to deal with each other, so how would they deal with intransigent Republicans? The DNC better get this organized and shortlist the number of candidates or risk killing any hope of a large voter turnout.
8
I am saddened by the many comments that paint Harris as aggressive, dictatorial, too angry, unlikable, etc. Isn’t this supposed to be a feminist newspaper? She’s a passionate person who showed some backbone last night. Political suicide or not, it’s rare we get to see a black woman confront a powerful white man about the injustices that his work has perpetuated towards people of her race. We should be celebrating these conversations. Instead, Harris is called a bully for asking legitimate questions, and Biden gains sympathy. And for what? Showing up sleepy and unprepared for a debate?
18
@QueensGirl
She came off as an opportunist. Read up on her past.
29 year old dating a 60 year old man to get ahead. If they got married, great, that was true love. But what happened was it was a stepping stone for Harris to get higher positions.
Some feminist ideals there! sarcasm off!
Go Sanders or Warren!
25
@MS Did she grab him by the whatever? Was he unwilling? Were any laws violated? Has he complained?
1
@QueensGirl
I watched the debates Thursday evening and I did not find Harris to be unduly aggressive. I was impressed by her clarity. I'm still behind Mayor Pete and Ms Warren. However, they were all very good.
1
Nate Silver, among the progressive pundits, was alone in pointing out that the reaction to Kamala Harris's assault on Biden will likely be interpreted very differently by voters than by the media. I think he's correct. I found for one her rehearsed alternation of accusation and mawkish sentimentality off putting. Not only that linking Biden's opposition to busing as "working with segregationists" was cynical and untrue. Then again, Biden was mediocre last night. Never thought I'd say this, but Warren really may be the one.
58
@brian
FWIW, I thought that the performance was rehearsed as well. She many feel it, but she had decided on this ahead of time. She also doesn't actually believe he was a racist, It this an attorney issue as much as a politician one?
And Biden was ineffectual.
4
All the candidates have ideas and policy that our country needs. What we need to hear is how Democrats will take measures to overcome the divisiveness in government. How will Congress pass laws? The focus needs to be on the rule of law and how some laws have to change! Mayor Pete is on the right track: expand the Supreme Court numbers. Let’s focus on immigration laws that need to be updated! Can that be done? Forget action on Day One in office. Tell us how you will lead Congress to passing much needed new laws.
4
Where some people saw a fighter in Harris, I saw obnoxious.
I also saw someone who appears to forget that if LBJ hadn't found a way to work with the segregationist Senators who controlled the southern states, there would have been no Medicare, Medicade, voting rights act, civil rights act etc. and Harris herself wouldn't have been afforded the educational opportunities that she had. That's what Biden was saying when he talked about working across the aisle. Re-fighting the past doesn't help with the future. Plus it's laughable to try to frame Biden as harboring racism when he served for eight years as President Obama's VP and the two men formed a close friendship.
64
@Amanda Bonner Actually, Biden was not working across the aisle, as those Southern senators were all Democrats. But the media continues to lie about that, painting them as Republicans.
3
Naturally Biden was the objective of a lot of fire. Very little of it found its mark despite the press hyperbole. He appeared on the whole very much above the fray which is the right place to be. Either way this will be largely forgotten in three days.
5
Harris, et al are banking on putting together an all-progressive ticket. They are also betting that the millions of young progressives and minorities who sat out the 2016 election will come back and vote in 2020 if their ticket wins the nomination.
Biden, et all are banking on a strategy of capturing independent voters and perhaps enough of those who reluctantly voted for Trump but may be willing to vote for a moderate Dem ticket.
If a Las Vegas bookie was asked which strategy will win back the White House, they's look back at the historical data and lay overwhelming odds that the leftist progressive wing of the Dems will put Trump back in the White House.
The Dems have all the right and moral ideas but are clueless when it comes to election strategy.
12
Biden has the longest record of significant public service. He has actually done more, so there is more for his rivals to misrepresent. But even those whose records are significantly shorter can be certain that, as the field of candidates thins, their own records will provide plenty of material to be misrepresented. A word to the wise.
6
Mrs. Harris showed that she is an expert on attacking other people, a Trump specialty. But we do not need another politician planting hate and divisions among ourselves, but someone with experience and expertise in all the different areas of governance, not someone entirely focussed on one subject, be it healthcare, LGBTQ rights or race.
Biden may not be a super star, but he fits the bill handsomely.
12
By and large every younger candidate plus Warren has benefited from Bernie’s torch-carrying for years about where we have to go. he may have to step aside now, but the Democrats and this country owe him for his tireless pushing for a list of changes and a new world view we need, some of those we now need desperately Biden is toast, doddering and retro, the status quo ante which was compromise starting from a compromised position. How does that work?
5