Trump garners no respect from the US military--not the top brass, nor the rank-and-file enlisted men and women. Over and over he called John McCain a loser as a soldier--for being shot down over North Vietnam, captured and tortured by the Viet Cong. Trump himself faked his medical record (Cadet Bone Spurs) to avoid service during the Vietnam War. Without respect from the generals down to the privates, a President cannot be Commander-in-Chief. He's undoubtedly being advised of this truth.
15
if there was a moment in my opinion to like and respect Trump since he was elected it was the moment he stopped the retaliatory attack on Iran for shooting down the US drone two days ago. No drone or any other none-human loss is worth killing people for. I didn't vote for Trump and I may not vote for him in 2020, but two days ago I really respected him and admired his restrains.
22
SHAME on you, NYT. Trump created this crisis, then swoops in to fix it. He LOVES the drama and the attention. Human life, he cares about that?? Why don't you lay off the kudos for him and focus on what is happening to innocent children on the border?
Stop trying to make this guy normal. He's not. He loves the power. What happens when he presses the nuclear button and then says oh wait, I take that back?? He has ZERO foreign policy. NOTHING.
Honestly, I expect more from you.
17
Movie star Clint Eastwood would use the words "cooked and loaded" in one of his dirty Harry movies not the president.
We know that it is impossible for Trump to tell the truth. We will never know what actually happened. It could be that nothing was ever going to happen, except his poll numbers came out this week.
Maybe just maybe the generals refused to carry out his orders. He cared about the number of people being murdered?
Trump and his minions think that we are all stupid and believe this tale. Trump has made this bed of lies and now he has to lie to get out of it. There is a reason why arrogant John Bolton was never in charge of anything because he cares nothing for thinking. An arrogant fool
Poor Trump he cant carry President Obama' first year law books. This shows how simple minded and racist he always was. Daily he shows the world how out of touch he is . All that mouth on TV and a coward in his own life except for sexually attacking women. There he is, a big man and now he has Brett on the Supreme Court with him and Roy Moore running again for the Senate. Another man of God. This experience was nothing but a lie for Trump to appear like some savior.
This short play is over, now onto the Mexicans this weekend, we might go back to Venezuela if we have time in our busy golfing schedule or another rally .
8
Trump works for Putin to UNDERMINE the USA. Nobody noticed yet?
14
MY guess, it was an intended threat from the get go - not an intended action. But, you don't say that. So, bad on the opposition press for raking Him over the coals for saying what He did. Of course, you don't tell the truth.
Now, the truth is John Bolton is still in power, along with a bunch of fascist Republican hawks. So, it's a good thing the President has such a high opinion of himself. He is less likely to be swayed by these people - but only marginally so.
An appropriately started war would be the easiest way for DJT to get re-elected. Fascist Americans love to put their proud and mighty military to use. It's what the fascist Christians have been doing my whole life. And now I'm an old man.
9
There is no reason under the Sun to believe that Trump will ever function normally and base any decision upon rational thought processes.
Trump is psychotic. The sooner people understand that, the sooner that congress will remove him from office.
Trump is not functioning and has benignly delegated the job to his minions like the screwball Stephen Miller and his right wing enablers elsewhere.
Since when does the United States function at the behest of right wing media blow hards, evangelical nuts, and racist antagonists? Since 2016, that's when.
12
Trump is not an Egyptian enigma where hieroglyphics is deciphered to find clues that determine the thinking of ancient people.
Trump is dolt who relies upon impulse and ignorance rather than facts, reason, and critical thinking to make decisions.
The NYT's analysis assumes that he can make coherent sentences from the English language. That his attention span allows him to read the entire Editorial without being distracted by a shiny object or two.
NYT states: "Mr. Trump said he was “in no hurry” to retaliate. Such patience is wise. Perhaps he can use the additional time to sort out what is a chaotic decision-making process."
Chaotic is the right word. But better words are scrambled, dark, or labyrinthine decision-making process.
If reports are correct, Fox cheerleader/chief Trump defender, Tucker Carlson, talked Donald out of taking out an Iranian missile site that could have caused 150 casualties to retaliate for the downing of a drone.
This would have ignited a bloody war after one of the chief religious lunatics in Iran would have come down from the mountain with a divine decree: God wants the blood of infidels as revenge for "The Believers" who sacrificed on the altar of Trump.
And, it was Trump who walked away from a nuclear agreement with Iran that was signed by among others Russia, England, Germany, France, and China.
Monitors indicate that Iran was in full compliance.
So, Trump started this fire, and the NYT is telling him not to play with matches at the gas station.
8
What kind of lunatic orders an attack before finding out the consequences of the attack?
13
It is deja vu all over again.
When a bipartisan immigration recommendation was placed before this president in 2018, he said he would sign it. Then, his media cabinet (a replacement for the kitchen cabinet of other presidents) including Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and others took to the air waves and trashed his decision. Surprise! The next day Trump reversed himself and rejected the proposal.
On Thursday, he agrees to strike Iran and all of the military players prepares for an engagement. Then, the president learns that Tucker Carlson thinks military action is a bad idea. Surprise! The "cocked and loaded" military stands down.
Lesson learned: Fox and the radio gasbags are the power behind Trump's throne and, still, he remains concerned about his "ratings."
12
It's pathetic that we have to treat him with kid gloves, trying to soothe his ego and keep him from doing any real damage. Someone this fragile and erratic should never be in the presidency.
5
It is always fascinating to see the Editorial Board, no matter what, find flaws within the President. "Given a clearly flawed decision-making process..." Like anyone, that is to say, everyone, doesn't have a "clearly flawed" everything. But here, in the august New York Times, they like to pretend that it is the President who is always the flawed one. One flaw, I would like to suggest, is that the New York Times board of editors is arrogant.
3
Delaying is pure theatrics from the Donald.
No, Trump, no one thinks you’re decisive, just way in over your head, and in a word, stupid, clueless and dangerous.
You are going to attack. You can’t help yourself. Your oversized ego dictates it. Probably next week during the debates.
Me Donald, me he-man the stable genius. You wish.
Just go away.
7
If you believe the narrative, trump is a punk. Otherwise it’s ‘Wag the Dog’.
2
It's amazing to read some of the comments. Tagging a "wise decision" when the reality is the ball of utter ineptitude and chaos just happened, for once, to land on the side of reason. We wouldn't even be here had Boy Blunder not decimated an existing agreement out of adolescent spite for his predecessor, and that predecessor's ability to run circles around him. Now, we give the freakshow credit for staying caged? Brilliant.
Just another sure sign that we've accepted---and acclimated to---an Executive perversion as a "leader." No, he deserves NO credit for his ineptitude.
And neither do we.
8
Trump is making America GRATE again...
3
It's so weird reading editorials like this which make it seem like it's being written about a rational, intelligent human being, when, in fact, it's about a wild, irrational, power hungry, greedy, incompetent and stupid man who just happens to be our president. That's called normalization.
8
The ratcheting up of the confrontation between the US and Iran stems centrally from Trump’s unilateral decision to abrogate the Iran Nuclear Deal despite an unbroken record of Iranian compliance.
The addition of tremendously onerous economic sanction intended to bring Iran to its economic knees has been the major catalyst driving Iran over actions to put the free flow of oil from the Persian Gulf at grave risk.
Now the Sectary of State is apparently in the process of further tightening the sanctions screws as the Iranian regime becomes ever more desperate.
Collectively this is a strategy not for concessions but for collapse and regime change.
The threat to Iran is existential. Expecting a rational outcome other than heightened confrontation is unmitigated folly.
46
Reuters reports that trump has communicated with Ayatollah Khamenei through Oman and suggested they meet. The message was received by aides. We come closer to the truth with this new information. The "attack" that was ordered was intended purely and simply as a threat, the lunatic president's deal making MO.
3
One question that comes to mind is if the NYT would have published President Trump’s decision to stop the air strike if this information was leaked if the was a communications blackout before becoming public during this type of scenario:
Iranian military was ready for preempt attack US Naval ships in the Gulf of Hormuz rather than wait for US missiles to be launched...
This whole situation is idiotic. A good strategy and policy on Iran would have never culminated to where we are at. Yet, what is our strategy...squeeze them economically to the point of desperation. Ok so we have sanctions on them, now what? What is the path forward? Trump and others are now saying how he agonized over the decision to hold off. However, if this administration agonized more over developing a coherent plan and strategy than last minute attacks we would have never been in this situation. Over and over again this administration creates its own crisis from not doing the hard work fundamentals. Then at the last moment it backs off and wants recognition for being the hero. So many examples...North Korea, the immigration issues, the sanctions, healthcare.
5
“according to the president’s own account, he learned of the possible death toll only at the last minute.”
Who doesn’t think that he was told at the beginning of the discussion, and forgot it, and had to ask about it again? Or that the casualty prediction was mentioned in a written assessment that he didn’t bother to read? Who can believe his own account of these events?
You cannot make policy or lead the country if half of the population doesn’t trust a word you say because you lie constantly.
I don’t know when we reached the point where a compulsive, inveterate liar is still considered qualified to lead us after he has discarded an elemental contract that began with George Washington’s Presidency.
7
Everything trump has done since he pulled the US out of the Iran deal was done specifically to bring about what has happened over the last few days. You can bet all you have that the drone was intentionally in Iranian air space. trump simply could not live without being able to' Commander in Chief'. Having members of the military salute him when they hold his limo door just is not enough. He must be able to order a military attack on someone. Korea didn't play along. Venezuela belongs to Putin. trump is mentally ill.
4
all he was worried about was the political fallout that might jepodize his re-election bid. if he doesn't care about refugees dying at the border, he doesn't care about 150 muslims being killed in an air strike.
8
President Obama warned Donald Trump that pulling out of the Nuclear Deal with Iran could lead to war, everyone said it was working the whole NATO Allies were supporting it; yet unwisely Trump pulled out.
What Donald Trump needs to learn and learn quick, like yesterday, is that his stupid and reckless campaign bluster and rhetoric is one thing; using smart deliberate and wise competent leadership is another thing, so far Donald Trump hasn't come close to showing any wise competent leadership.
Donald Trump could learn a lot by taking some consul from President Obama and John Kerry, and shutting his ears to incompetents like Mike Pompeo and John Bolton.
3
You know....the NYT could have just said "good job."
Instead they have to couch in an tirade about environmental and immigration and foreign affairs.
This is why people don't trust the media as much as they used to.
They build up a little credibility and then blow it in a NY minute on an anti-Trump tirade.
Trump does as many good and bad things as Obama did..who did as many good and bad things as Bush did.
Why can't the Editors of the NYT see this?
Do they need to get in a car and head west across the GWB to see how the rest of the country lives?
3
What if we had never known about "the strike that President Trump cancelled"? It would be just another day of his bluster, narcissism, mass mind manipulation, exploitation of the "shiny new thing" news cycle and feeding the cable news 24-hr. "Ain't he awful/great?" commentary and analysis platform. But for some strange reason, we know or think we know and surely don't know how that launch/abort life/death decision of our commander-in-chief great went down, almost in real time. That's heady stuff for Walmart and McDonald's workers looking at their paychecks, for single mothers looking for childcare, for diabetics looking for insulin they can afford, for college graduates looking at their tuition loan payment due dates, for cancer survivors with Obamacare policies wondering if they will still have insurance a year from now. Having a front row seat in the Situation Room when the billion-dollar bombers are "cocked and loaded" on the runways (or maybe already in the air?) and the billionaire president is giving thumbs up or thumbs down, that's a "reality" millions of Americans would prefer to their own. And the con man knows it.
2
The following 5 people were advising Trump whether to strike Iran:
NSA advisor John Bolton, outgoing Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan, Army Secrerary Mark T. Esper, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
These 4 wanted a strike.
Bolton who never met a war he didn't love.
Shanahan who worked for Boeing's missle defense program.
Esper who was in charge of Defense Contractor Raytheon's government relations division.
Pompeo who thinks God sent Trump to save Israel from Iran yet also believes we need a war in the Middle East to destroy Israel since the embassy was moved to Jerusalem so Jesus can come back.
General Dunford was the only one against the strike.
And apparently Tucker Carlson broke the stalemate by telling Trump his reelection would be in doubt.
Wow. I truly cannot even find a joke in any of this insanity.
9
"according to the president’s own account, he learned of the possible death toll only at the last minute."
Hmmmm. "According to the President's own account." In other words, he's lying as usual.
6
This incident merely confirms the fact that in the White House sits an erratic, vainglorious, possibly insane individual, who has the power to blow up the world. Think about it. Or better still, find the nearest sandpit in which to bury your head.
2
It looks like Trump is threatening Iran with nukes.
One good thing about having a crazy president, is that he'll frighten enemies into submission.
4
Trump says he was “cocked and loaded.” So what else is new? Thank god, for once he pulled out.
5
Instead of focusing on the details of Trump's latest maneuver, the NY Times needs to focus on the outrageous behavior of the Israel Lobby in trying to use America's soldiers and weapons for the benefit of Israel and patently against our interests. Your perennial failure to do so makes you complicit.
5
This whole incident seems like a rather inflated diversion to me. That being said, a couple of things come to mind. Trump's grandfather, Friederich Trump (nee Drumph) ran away to America in 1886 at the age of 16 without completing Bavaria's then mandatory military service. The nut doesn't fall too far from the tree, and as we all know Donald Trump avoided the Vietnam draft with help from his father, Fred Trump, by faking bone spurs. I think it's fair to conclude that the Drumphs and Trumps are war averse. Another thought that comes to mind is Donald Trump's desire to be liked, to come across as a good guy. With the looming immigration round-up this weekend, he's going to need the good publicity, but I'm not sure showing "mercy" to 150 Iranians will garner him much support at home. It's hard to imagine this is the first drone that's been shot down, so the reaction and coverage feels very contrived and false.
3
Trump should bolt that dirty mustached Bolton out of office. This guy just wants to be important at Trump’s expense.
5
Trump always makes up stories with himself as hero and they are always packs of lies.
Why are the Editors taking this obvious fantasy/delusion seriously?
4
A fairy tale - a myth - a story with good guys and bad guys - Trumpudo rides off on a white horse saving lives - only an ideological idiot would believe this tripe - impeach! NOW before it’s too late
Jerry W N E Kingdom VT
6
The NY Times says, "It’s alarming that a potentially lethal strike was averted with only 10 minutes to spare — and that, according to the president’s own account, he learned of the possible death toll only at the last minute. That’s very strange, and disturbing: Casualty estimates are routinely given to commanders and their civilian bosses early in the process of weighing military actions." REALLY? Has the Times forgotten what it has reported and hinted at so often in these Trumpian times: The president is a bald-faced LIAR? How can anyone, the editors of the NY Times included, accept at Trump's word over such a fanciful, self-congratulatory script as what the president described?
9
Trump’s monumental unfitness to be President of the United States has gone way passed “reality show” bemusement. He should be impeached not only for the way he stole the 2016 election and never should have been in such a position to remake the Supreme Court and the judicial system, to undermine democratic institutions and wreak havoc on government, the national budget, the economy, not only for the crimes (obstruction of justice, abuse of power, crimes against humanity, violations of emoluments and steps for personal enrichment) while in office, but because of his mammoth inadequacy to handle the awesome responsibility as the most powerful person in the country (he already ceded the position as Leader of the Free World) that is jeopardizing countless lives.
Who doubts that Trump, who loves to strut with faux military jacket (the medals come next) would launch a war if he thought that would cement an election victory or give him the war powers he needs to shut down a free press, free speech and free elections (a la Erdagon in Turkey). And if Trump provokes retaliatory attack by Iran in which an American is killed, does that force the NATO powers into war, along with us?
People can scoff and say that “America is resilient, we will recover.” In age when humanity can be annihilated at the push of a button and the planet rendered uninhabitable, that is not an answer. Impeach Trump now.
10
American credibility is at the lowest point I can recall. POTUS drops out of the nuclear deal then acts surprised when Iran announces it’s resuming bomb making. That’s the “Art of the Deal” in action.
Ships and drones are attacked by... who do you believe?
Keep in mind that regardless of the provocations Iran will easily spin any action as a world wide religious attack on Shiite Islam. China and Russia couldn’t be more delighted than to see the US bogged down in yet another expensive unwinnable military mess.
6
"Representative Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the third-ranking House Republican, said on Friday that she was concerned about Mr. Trump’s restraint in response to the downing of an American drone, comparing it with President Barack Obama’s unfulfilled threat to strike Syria if it crossed a “red line” by using chemical weapons."
One can fault President Obama's reluctance to strike Syria for using chemical weapons.
But to compare the use of chemical weapons with the downing of an unmanned drone?
How bloodthirsty is this woman? Evidently it is a family trait.
11
Liz Cheney's family has been in the war-profiteer business for decades! Remember her dad Dick?
3
This Trump, Bolton warmongering over crimes Iran quite probably didn’t do is the usual Republican stuff ..This administration broke a decent treaty for the benefit of Netanyahu, the Saudis who caused 9/11 and the great I AM Trump.
We should send our young people to war for the benefit of Liz Cheney and Lindsey Graham. No. We should protest, audibly visibility in the streets. Americans do not want another war! We want the Republicans out of office. We will vote
6
What would the USA do if they detected an Iranian drone over Atlantic int'l waters near Chesapeake Bay? Why isn't this considered by news reports of the present event?
4
It’s worth pointing out, yet again, that Hillary Clinton was right. Donald Trump never had the temperament to be commander in chief. He just doesn’t. Incurious. Uninformed. Mendacious. Egocentric to the max. Probable serial rapist (gratuitous in this context, yes, but still character defining).
Our luck, such as it has been, may not last with Trump at the helm.
6
Perhaps you should have worried about the serious situation between Iran and the US that would have resulted were we to have what we now have, to wit, a deleterious ignoramus as president. Perhaps the NYT should have thought of its responsibilities with a bit more profundity before you started to make false equivalency between Clinton's emails and Trump's obvious corruption, cruelty, and unfitness for office.
A fine mess humanity finds itself in as we all whistle past the grave yard and stumble into a war over oil which, given what it has done to the crops of my fellow farmers via climate change, to the oystermen's larvae and the loggers' timber and to the farmers of the global south who now desperately cross borders to seek relief . . . well, fossil fuel should be illegal. Hint - no fossil fuel no oil tanker attacks.
Yet the NYT and media went on and on and on about Hillary's emails when in fact you should be banging the drum about arresting the heads of fossil fuel companies - the Kochs, the Tillersons, and many others, for willful crimes against humanity, for the destruction of our fellow creatures who inhabit this majestic and beautiful planet, and for contempt for the dignity of the Earth itself.
God the collective ineptitude of the political class, the media, and the public in assessing genuine risks and perils to our survival makes me sick. And as a professional historian I know a thing or two about the folly of war and about climate impacting humanity.
7
What's most alarming about all of this is that Tucker Carlson, a political pundit with Fox, is our acting National Security Advisor.
5
It is very hard for me to believe Trump cares one way or the other about 150 people's lives. Caring about lives is small potatoes.
We so need to be rid of this abomination.
7
So easy to win a sanction war. Who needs treaties?
We have the class clown governing.
3
As with all issues, this president's reptilian mind is incapable of nuance, complexity and empathy. His knee jerk midbrain thought process is not what we should fear. It is and has always been the deceitful, cynical and manipulative people that enable him in his daily demented activity. Trump is incapable of carrying out protracted policy so depends entirely on others to focus him on anything other than a 30 second incoherent tweet. The failure of our politicians (especially the GOP), the press and the voters has allowed this creature to enter our country's soul, to our everlasting shame.
Advice on Iran from Tucker Carlson? God help us.
4
So a Fox show host looked at the broken clockface and waited for actual time to catch up with the clockface. Then he proclaimed I'm right! I'm humane!
If RT ever buys out Murdoch, the show will be even more fun.
3
Renewable energy please.
1
We'll see if Trump's compassion extends to people living inside the US. We have immigrant children housed in abysmal facilities and ICE planning to terrorize the immigrant community with mass deportations this weekend.
3
Give me Trump and Tucker Carlson any day over the Bush-era Chicken Hawk, John Bolton. If Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and Bolton were running the show, we would all be wearing yellow ribbons today, and we would be contributing to the rise of a very sophisticated group of terrorists [Iranians are no dummies]. The one good/great thing that has come out of the Trump presidency is the complete evisceration of the Chicken Hawks. In this instance, I can only thank President Trump and the counsel [in this instance] of Tucker Carlson.
13
Does it matter if Trump gets advice from a trusted Tucker Carlson on initiating military strikes? It should not if Carlson has better instincts than appointed figures like Bolton and politicians like Graham who push Trump toward war.
1
I find it hard to believe this story of his decision not to proceed because he was concerned about civilian deaths. He usually has no compassion for anyone and such a gesture does not seem to be his usual unless Ivanka asked daddy not to be mean. It is "locked and loaded" not "cocked"...
1
He said he was "cocked and loaded". That's how you get when you combine "locked and loaded" with "cock and bull". He's motivated to start a war in order to boost his poll ratings before the 2020 election. Guess the timing wasn't right last week.
3
Please. This "I stopped it just in time" thing is pure theater. Trump's specialty is creating a problem or the threat of a problem, then pounding himself on the back for ceasing to create the problem or calling off the threat of a problem. This is what he does. Why, suddenly, are the media giving him credit for doing something completely different?
3
The world owes Tucker Carlson a big Thank You for telling Trump he wouldn't get re-elected. Suddenly, the president's response became thoughtful and proportional.
Some may be upset at the prospect of Fox News deciding America's military policy. It's unorthodox, sure, but still preferable to relying on Bolton.
3
One way to draw an adversary into firing the first shot is to feign an attack.
Perhaps calling off this retaliatory strike at the nth moment was just that kind of ruse.
There had to be a cover story if Iran didn’t take the bait.
Trump’s trademark means of disowning responsibility is creating chaos.
I think the conflicting versions coming out of the WH of a “chaotic decision-making process” are just that; artificial chaos, aka smoke to cover a failed attempt to start the war Bolton dreams of.
1
Regardless of how the build up to this played out, the entire world is lucky that these events didn't spiral into a war. As usual, the prime chicken hawk (John Bolton) was the chief cheerleader for getting us into a hot war where someone else's kids would be likely casualties. The assistant head cheerleader's (Sean Hannity) sage response to regardless of the reasons, one of Trump's extremely rare correct calls, was that he blew it. It isn't a surprise that as usual, those who have never served and those that can keep their kids away from serving are usually the biggest cheerleaders for getting us into armed conflicts, while generals and those that have been in them, want them the least. Why did Trump make a big mistake, because Hannity was wasn't going to appear on his nightly slot on Fox and get a rating bonanza by simultaneously ranting against those opposed to war and doing his best puffer-fish imitation. Trump should take a lesson away from other individual's treatment by Hannity when they didn't deliver and he had no more use for for them, if I am not mistaken Manafort is still waiting for widespread promotion of his legal defense fund by Sean. Alas, it is not to be, the shield of what is permissible by the network intervened out of the mist and Sean not only can't promote it, he is likely having trouble finding his contact information.
1
I don't for one minute think that Trump was only advised of the potential number of casualties at the last minute. I think he was properly briefed and, as usual, didn't pay much attention. Perhaps they forgot to prepare a brightly coloured bullet chart with very big letters on it (and his name every second line).
The last minute waffling is both a blessing and a curse; no air strike, thank goodness, but now, once again, a pathetic show of weakness on the world stage.
2
He did the right thing! He did the right thing. Yes, he did.
Am I naive to think that maybe Mr. Trump's consciousness had a rare visit from his conscience, however decimated?
Maybe even the worst among us are not completely lost. Honor among thieves, that type of thing.
"What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how
infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and
admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like
a god! the beauty of the world, the paragon of animals—and yet ... "
-- "Hamlet" 2.2
1
In a short sentence buried in one of the many articles I have read on this subject over the past few days, was a statement about surprised they were that Iran was able to strike down a U.S. drone. Hopefully this hint of Iran's capabilities will add to their cautioun.
1
The Iran strike fiasco is no different from the national emergency on wall building. Both manufactured crises-- wall drama to win the midterms, and the Iran strike surreal drama aimed to win the 2020 elections. Everything Trump does is a gambling bid to harvest electoral dividends
3
The Editorial Board must exist in some parallel universe.
One where what Trump pronouncements can be taken seriously as facts for a discussion.
One where Congress would be "consulted" on hostilities but where in reality congress is thwarted by the executive branch for a request to get a cup of coffee.
One where allies can be gathered together to cooperate in the Iranian issue after being bullied, slapped with tariffs, and used for daily verbal attacks.
One where anyone's advice has anyone in the executive branch listening.
It's time get back to reality.
2
"Also concerning is a report from The Times that the United States military cannot say for certain whether or not the drone violated Iranian sovereignty ... "
As a PhD Physicist, I certainly question the accuracy of the ability to locate a drone and know with absolute certainty where it was. Moreover, it may have intruded into Iranian airspace and was shot down after it left.
Look at the numbers; the numbers are what count, not an emotional staunch loyalty to our Country.
The Strait of Hormuz is 20 miles across. International boundaries are typically 12 nm, more than half the width of the Strait. A Global hawk flies at about 10 mi altitude at 400 mph or about 6 miles per minute. Moreover its turning radius is 6.5 nm. The flight accuracy would have to thread a needle to assure that a drone would never intrude into Iranian airspace even when making one of those 7 mile radius turns.
A sketch of the geometry of those numbers certainly induces skepticism. Really, exactly just how accurately can American radars place that drone? In addition, just how accurately can Iranian radars place the drone?
Did the US exercise caution in its flight pattern to assure that a very minor error in Iranian radar measurements would lead to shooting it down?
Or did we exercise no caution with the belief that Iranians would never consider attacking us?
We'll never know; the military will never admit to an error.
4
I love my Country and have been part of the mechanism used by our nation's leaders for the continuation of state policy by other means for most of my adult life — the military. For me, and most others in the world, American values are expressed in our Constitution and its 27 Amendments, not policies that put kids in cages, discriminate against minorities and the poor, take away women's rights, or advance predatory capitalism at home and abroad.
That said, the Editorial Board's suggestion that the US should work to convince nations that share American values to support retaliation against Iran might be a hard task because, if it is unclear to me what is meant by American values in today's America, it may be unclear to our NATO partners or our hemispheric neighbors. After all, do American values include pulling out of signed agreements at the whim of a real estate developer/TV reality host who brags about grabbing women by the privates. Or perhaps American values now include a president working hard to lift sanctions on Russia, the country that has meddled in our elections, annexed Crimea and perhaps is involved with the downing of a commercial passenger plane over the Ukraine.
The problem for our Nation is that it is unclear what today's American values really are. Couple the present with our Nation's past deceptions with regard to Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and our Nation might have a hard time forming a coalition to retaliate against Iran.
5
One of the results that ought to come from this episode should be Trump's paying more attention to briefings including such details as potential casualties from military actions, instead of paying attention to Fox News (propaganda). Maybe he will finally pay attention to those in the know or even study the issues a little. The other result should be John Bolton's immediate removal from anywhere near power as quickly as possible. After Iraq has that guy no shame?
4
A worldwide Green New Deal would do a lot toward reducing the tensions centered around that part of the planet.
2
We can all speculate what went on in the President’s thinking to walk-back the military strike, but we likely will never know the answer to that. Trump’s rhetoric though is his biggest enemy, and nothing says he’ll hit a trip wire somewhere and then there’s no walking back.
And unfortunately there is absolutely no one with the experience and demeanor in the Administration to counsel him properly on the pros and cons of a military operation as a last resort. Had he heeded his own advice from years past, he would have asked Congress to approve the action. Maybe the next time he will.
I do think Trump does not want a war or military confrontation with any adversary, but his stupid tweets and shoot from the hip balderdash gets him in trouble every time. Maybe if he spent some time with Schumer and Pelosi, both are level headed, they could temper the aggressive behavior of his war hawks, Bolton and Pompeo.
124
The real story behind Trump's reversal lies in the realm of speculation. Consider that this absentee executive delegated the gulf Theatre and Iran to hawks Pompeo and Bolton. So thoroughly that the mission was in progress until it required the president to order the missiles. He backed down when his latest phone friends got to him. Out of balance casualties were only an excuse.
He clearly was thinking about elections and optics, not American interests or mid east peace.
14
@cherrylog754--The only aides and advisers Trump allows to be around him are just sycophants and people he tolerates because they agree with him. He won't listen to opposition opinions. He makes up his mind after consulting with news readers from Fox News, or his golfing buddies. It doesn't exactly instill confidence in his decision-making ability.
10
@Nate Tzodikov
"He clearly was thinking about elections and optics, not American interests or mid east peace."
How can you know this, what goes through and in a man's mind? And you know it "clearly."
I'm not even sure why I do what I do, much less someone else.
Maybe I'm under-confident. Or maybe you're overconfident. Both are possibilities. I counsel erring on the side of humility, but that may be wrong, too.
The only certainty is that nothing is certain.
4
The escalating tension between America and Iran is insane.
If we look at the proposed response to Iran's shooting down of our drone it appears planes were going to bomb several missile sites. If Iran has missiles that can blow up a drone flying miles above land then they have access to weapons that can be launched against military bases or ships or aircraft. And what would be our response if American soldiers were attacked? We do not have enough military supplies or soldiers in place to attack Iran. More bombing runs, instead? And the impact on the shipping of oil to the "rest of the world"?
Inflicting damage to each side is insane. We cannot allow this president or his advisors to promote further hostilities. Negotiate. Time for peace in the Middle East.
96
@Rev Wayne--I'm convinced that we don't know the full story of the events leading up to Trump's pull back of the airstrikes. This whole "Iran shot down our drone"episode could have been manufactured. I put nothing past Trump and his obsession with getting reelected. Now, with all the praise being heaped on him for his "patience," he can claim to have been "presidential" by stopping the attack. It's all about the election.
10
@Rev Wayne
Why didn't Trump just do what he did in Syria when he
alerted the Russian backed Syrians well in advance to when and where U.S. airstrikes would occur to allow personnel time to evacuate and remove key military equipment.
All staged to look like U.S. was really punishing Syria/Russia.
Trump is so transparent, it's nauseating.
4
The sad fact is that my first reaction was to think that once again this president created a situation only to make himself look good and have a talking point for his re-election campaign. Even sadder is that I still think that.
225
@Chris Shimkin
Spot on.
This nonsense that Trump discovered empathy for the estimated 135 Iranians who might be killed in airstrikes is
is so ludicrous, it's insulting to anyone with half a brain.
Where was his empathy for:
1) The six migrant children who have died in US custody in the past 10 months. Trump blamed Democrats.
2) The nearly 3,000 American citizens who died in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria. Trump denied the death toll.
3) The four US soldiers who were killed in an Islamic State ambush in Niger in 2017. Trump waited 12 days before even publicly acknowledging the deaths.
4) Senator John McCain, who died of brain cancer in 2018. Long after McCain passed, Trump said, "I never liked him much" and complained about not being thanked for McCain's funeral arrangements.
The fire that destroyed Paradise, California, and killed 85 people. Trump's reaction: "There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor."
And we are to believe Trump was worried about the possible death of 135 Iranians?
yeah right
32
Sure, this was the correct call by Donald Trump. The law of probabilities ensures that eventually a right decision will be made, no matter what the baseline reasoning is.
But this doesn't make him Winston Churchill by a long shot. As it turns out, he was more influenced by Fox News commentator Tucker Carlson who warned that a military response would threaten Trump's re-election possibilities.
It really had zero to do with killing 150 people. Now it makes sense to me.
170
@Len
Uh oh, Sean Hannity is going to be jealous that Tucker Carlson wields so much power and influence over the POTUS!
This may start a civil war within Fox News.
We hear that Brian Kilmeade is most UNhappy with Trump's last minute pull out.
5
We have institutions for a reason. We have established procedures for a reason. We have merit based appointments for a reason. They keep us from blowing up the world.
Trump has done everything he can to demolish all three. He calls it the deep state. He says he can do it all better on his own. On his own, he almost started a war and fortunately, on his own, he didn't.
Someone got to him at the last minute to call off the attack. Trump hasn't been the least bit concerned about the catastrophic loss of life in Syria. He does nothing to stop the butchering of lives in South Yemen by the Saudis. He isn't concerned about the starvation of over 100,000 children in South Yemen. Trump doesn't care about anything in this world but himself. But yet, all of the sudden, he is worried about 150 Iranian soldiers.
This attack would have hurt Trump politically. It would have cost him votes and support. That's why he called it off. Or, he got a call from his buddy Putin.
165
@Bruce Rozenblit
Great observations (as usual).
My second guessing is it's just a postponement in search of a more convenient date and a more convincing casus belli.
I fear that in the wings the four horses of the apocalypse, the American military industrial complex, Putin, MBS, and AIPAC have already agreed that starting the next disastrous war is what brings them a great return on their cynical investments. For Putin it's the honeypot at the horizon of the likely resulting oil price hike that has probabably already covertly moved him into the pro-war camp, in spite of his connections to Iran. I guess the Tucker Carson story is advanced as a distraction from who really decided to postpone the thing. If not, some big players would want to have a word with Rupert Murdoch and Jared Kushner. The back channels will see considerable traffic. Again.
16
@Bruce Rozenblit
You are spot on. Tucker Carlson of all people influenced Trump to back away from a counter strike because it might cost him re-election. It had nothing whatsoever to do with any humanitarian impulse on his part.
27
I do not believe for one second the account given by Trump. It's a story concocted to make him look good. Are we to believe that the military never told him, until he asked, what the death toll could be? Please. I have said from the very beginning of Trump's campaign and administration that there may come a time when he needs the American people to believe him. That time is long past. Too many lies. If his lips are moving he's lying. That is a sad and dangerous thing for our nation.
102
@Diane Graves--Agreed. Americans cannot trust this government. We do not know what really happened with the attack on the Japanese tankers and we do not know if the drone was flying in international airspace. Trump has shown literally thousands of time over the past three years that he is willing to lie about everything and anything, including something as inconsequential as where his father was born. How can we believe him now, on a matter of such importance? We can't.
12
"It was welcome news to see President Trump announce on Twitter that he called off airstrikes against Iran this week ..."
Nonsense! It is never 'welcome' to see Trump announce anything on twitter, especially regarding an issue of such great seriousness as going to war.
3
Our President's provocations, from abandoning allies in joint Iran nuclear treaty, to ratcheting up sanctions until economic collapse looms in Iran, are directly responsible for war rattling. His latest contrivance has himself playing multiple roles in the same saga as the hero-savior from his own self. It's an inverted, deeper weird than just plain weird. Strutting his grotesque mission accomplished tweet narrative of saving the un-dead with a touch of Mother Theresa on meth.
The USA has a whole new thing going on.
2
The understated nature of this editorial is disturbing. Trump’s well rehearsed depiction of what transpired as he presented in his interview with Chuck Todd has no credibility. Collateral damage assessments are always made early as part of any operation. It is of paramount importance to distrust this president. He has very much earned that distrust. It is probable he had never intended to allow a military response.
As for the very sensible proposals for dealing with Iran presented in this article, they presume an ability of Trump to listen to others and presume an understanding of what he wants to accomplish beyond his own re-election.
Given the timing, there is every reason to believe that Trump is planning something to upstage the Democrats’ debates this week and that either Iran or rounding up immigrants will be the focus. For Trump, it’s all about winning the ratings war each and every day.
2
This is not that complicated. Putin didn’t want the strike to happen.
1
As flawed as his decision making might be, he deserves credit for the end result this time. Must be mentioned however that this is a self inflicted wound by a child that is obsessed with undoing his predecessor's legacy. It scares me to have him in the position of decision making, given his utter inability and refusal to be informed on world affairs! The very real possibility of another four year term with this man at the helm is extremely worrisome.
One of the problems Trump has is that is has lied so often that I never know when he speaks the truth. I suspect in the next few weeks there will be many leaks of information about what really happened.
Thank you President Trump for the temporary reprieve from another war with no end. Now, for at least your son, daughter, son-in-law and my grandsons can avoid military action in the religious wars of the Middle East!
1
This editorial seems to rely greatly on what Trump says as being true, and then proceeds to provide constructive argument. Fair enough. But the thing is, Is Trump telling the truth in the first place? Trump’s track record in regard to truth-telling would strongly suggest not. I guess though he could be “evolving” (for example, his sudden touching concern about human life ... even that of the enemy, at least 150 of them), but other interpretations that are in the self-serving domain more likely apply. That the truth can harbor the lie, as expressed once by Tolstoy, should always be considered ... especially with Trump. Ignoring the truth about Trump as a “con” is unwise because this enables him in that role.
1
Could it be that the psychopath can be healed?
Once again we have a flawed inaccurate opinion from the NYTimes.
They are aware it was Obama that started seperating children in the detention centers that were operating at that time. The NYTimes is also aware that the smugglers utilize children in their work of smuggling humans and drugs across our southern border.
So this particular piece of inaccuracy starts with a small bit of applause for our President to be followed immeadiately by the nonstop bashing this old gray lady can master.
Instead of sitting in your ivory towers why don't you editorial writers go visit the border, camp their over night, watch, then write your editorial, I can only imagine the tenor of your opinions would change.
Members of the editorial board of the NYTimes may not have suffered crime or direct hardship from the invasion of our country, perhaps they should be replaced with real people, people who deal first hand with these nightmare scenarios on a daily basis. Perhaps some guest writers from border states ( not California, they have already surrendered) that have first hand knowledge.
2
This whole story stinks to high heaven. It doesn’t hang together. He only found out how many people might lose their lives in the last ten minutes? Nobody told him in the planning stages and he didn’t think to ask? Whose idea was it from the get-go?
And, what does “cocked and ready” mean? What did this aborted so-called mission cost the American taxpayer, by the way? Was it really Tucker Carlson that convinced Trump not to go ahead because a war could cost him the election? Remember, know-nothing Trump has the nuclear codes. Is Hannity the one who is going to save us from nuclear war?
This whole debacle is terrifying. And, if this WAS calculated to shake up Iran, then it’s doubly terrifying. What the heck kind of schoolyard games is Trump playing?
2
I don’t know what’s more frightening—that Trump is President or that Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson are calling, and recalling, the shots. I feel like I’m on the receiving end of some perverse combination of “Network’s” Howard Beale and “Dr. Strangelove”. I’m both mad as hell and incredulous that none of them seems to realize that you can’t fight in here. It’s the War Room!
2
Why did this editorial not point out that if the US had attacked Iran it would have violated the UN Charter?
All this weighing of whether to attack or not, as if, from the legal standpoint, it were even possible. All utter nonsense, and a dangerous ignorance of the legal framework that undergirds the US's relation with other nations. Under the UN Charter the US is restrained from aggression against another country until and unless the Security Council gives its approval. The sole exception is the right to self-defense against an attack by another country, which the drone incident plainly does not rise to.
Forget Bolton's trying to egg Trump on, forget wiser heads urging restraint. The debate should never have taken place because under the law an attack was not even an option. The approval of the Congress would not have made a difference. The only thing that would have allowed an attack is the approval of the Security Council.
The Times has to do what it can to put an end to normalizing US aggression as a possible option.
Would the Times please perform the great public service of publishing an editorial that explains the UN Charter on this point to the President, the American people, and the world?
It's time for the Times to show that it understands the crucial importance of observing the law in international affairs.
51
@MF: The Republican Party has always treated the UN as an unacceptable constraint on the US, just as it previously treated the League of Nations.
9
@Steve Bolger Hi, Steve. Thank you for your comment. Sad to say this attitude is true of Democrats too, at least it was in the case of Kennedy and Vietnam. As I'm sure is clear to you, my point was that the Times should step up and tell the world that it understands the legal facts in international affairs and that such facts are crucial. For its failing to do so, the Times appears to be untroubled by its failure to speak out during the prelude to the invasion of Iraq, which, as was evident would be the case, was a crime against peace under the Nuremberg Principles and a crime of aggression under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.
3
Which the UN Security Council authorized the Iraq War...
I have been looking at websites where Trump supporters gather. They think he was wonderful to do some saber-rattling and then step back. It has occurred to none of them that his main story -- according to his own words -- is simply absurd. How could anyone with a working brain not think of the death toll right from the start? But I saw not a whisper of recognition, just adulation for Trump and hatred for Democrats.
Even in death, Monty Hall could still make a better deal than Trump; who to that end, is the personification of a "zonk."
I refuse to cede Trump any sort of credit on this issue. Anyone with an iota of sense has known from the very beginning of his administration that things would go awry due to his incompetence and narcissism. And of course, he hasn't let us down. Hard decisions take people who are willing to take the blame as well as the credit. Truman put it so simply, but Donald is a cowardly bully, unwilling and unable to take responsibility for just about anything that might go wrong. He's also extremely lazy when it comes to gathering the requisite information to make a sound decision, probably reading nothing and just passively listening to all the sycophants surrounding him. Did anyone think there would be a different outcome?
The real danger we face are with folks like Liz Cheney, Bolton and Pompeo who would rush this completely unprepared and incompetent administration in to full blow conflagration with yet another Middle East country, one everyone points out is far more prepared than the last three. Republican critics of Trump are still under the delusion he is capable of seeing through an attack on Iran, while folks like Bolton have duped themselves into thinking they can manage the ensuing firestorm by themselves.
Who cares whether a retaliatory strike was right or not, we have loose cannons on the ship of state, let's get those secured first.
This administration is frightening beyond anything we’ve previously experienced.
On one hand, you have insane, war-happy neocon hawks like Bolton and Pompeo, whose ideas have repeatedly been proven wrong over decades, running foreign policy.
Then there is Trump, who has zero expertise and can’t even be bothered to read or listen to a briefing - and who cares about absolutely nothing besides himself.
There are no coherent goals, strategies or plans. There are no adults in the room.
If this gang had been in charge during the Cuban missile crisis, none of us would be alive.
I really can't believe the predominant anti Trump sentiments expressed here on a momentous decision that clearly could have lead to war. I'll take Dunford and Kane's warnings as instrumental factors. There ARE less lethal personnel options. For example, taking out one of two oil refineries - thus, increasing economic pressures. The Times has reported on Iran's reduction of funding for terrorist proxies due to current sanctions. Let's continue that pressure that will ultimately result in a change in behavior or enough internal strife that might bring about leadership changes. And let's give "our" President credit for a tough but right decision.
The Senate passed legislation providing an end to military support to Saudi Arabia whereby thousands of civilians are being killed and wounded. Prez will veto the legislation. I guess in this case possible business interests are more important than civilian lives.
2
@Jules Freedman
I should have noted civilians in Yemen are being killed and wounded
Trump is "in no hurry" to retaliate.
Bring on the PTSD. Living through this period of American history with this blowhard masquerading as one of the most powerful people on the planet, yanks me right back to the memory of growing up with an abusive alcoholic father.
Same kind of behavior - bellicose threats of physical violence meant to intimidate - then backing down with the related threat, "I'm in no hurry", meaning he'll inflict that violence on you in the rare moment you let your guard slip.
I'm betting he gets a sadistic satisfaction from keeping a global population in perpetual anxiety.
To his base, are you feeling righteous about sending your children into the war he'll inevitably bumble into? Will that keep America great for you?
316
@Claire Elliott - spot on!
19
This whole episode of a response reeks of something contrived by writers for a reality show. There were no casualty estimates available until ten minutes before launch of the purported strike? We and the world are being played once again by a con man.
2
I think I know why president bone spurs took so long to understand the repercussions of his air strike. It took that long for the military to put the whole situation down in cartoon form so that our illiterate president could grasp what he was doing.
Having an insane buffoon driving the country makes for a wild and scary ride for the entire world and turns daily life into a sick reality TV show. We can only hope that we can survive his first term and then avoid a no doubt disastrous second one, or the country is in real trouble.
Trump deserves no credit for his "patience." In truth, he knew that that he would be held responsible for the 150 deaths that would come from his attack. He couldn't blame Obama, or Clinton, or the "deep state," or the Democrats, or anyone but himself. Concern for the people of Iran was not his motivation. It was his fear of having to take responsibility for the action that was his motivation. If he could have blamed someone else, he would have proceeded.
4
His history is consistent. Now six deferments and counting.
2
@unclejake Spot on!
Maybe the best response at this time wouold be to just give Iran the opportunity to repay the U.S. the hundred thirty million that the drone cost and accept their apology.
1
So the man-child finally does the "right" thing. Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn.
2
In only the last week, we have seen Iranians attack a Japanese oil freighter, block vital oil straits, threaten mass war with not only the IS, but Saudi Arabia and Israel, and finally, shoot down a US drone. And in all of that, gasoline is still at a ridiculous summer low. What does that really tell you about their power or their neighbors for that matter?
It tells you a lot about this administration when the headline of the day is "Trump Decides Not To Do Something Crazy!"
1
At least give Trump credit on this one for not listening to the tapeworm Bolton as Tucker Carlson rightly called him. I am starting to like Tucker Carlson.
It is just nonsense and highly irresponsible for The Times to imply that Trump's decision was based on a talk show host's comments. This paper reported in May 2019 that Trump told his Pentagon Chiefs he didn't want to go to war.* His position has been clear and consistent.
This is just a cheap shot. Shame on The Times.
*********
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/world/middleeast/iran-war-donald-trump.html
@AACNY
"This paper reported in May 2019 that Trump told his Pentagon Chiefs he didn't want to go to war.* His position has been clear and consistent."
You want to condemn the NYT, fine. But you still have to square your comment above with the fact that Trump DID order the strike -- WITHOUT knowing its full implications -- and then called it off -- after realizing it might cost him re-election. You don't really believe his feigned concern for Iranian lives, do you?
1
There is nothing “clear and consistent” about Trump and his positions. The only thing clear is Trumps hubris and stupidity, the only consistency is the foolish consistency of a little mind. Trump says nonsense for effect then tries to shape the reality to fit his fantasies. The fact that the “decision” making process was so poorly informed and impulsive that it ran up to the last minute belies your contention that this is reflective of a informed individual. Trumps plan is to stay in power, attacking Iran at this time is inconsistent with that goal. When its not then another “decision” will be made. It won’t be an informed one either. Trump apologists never see who he really is, it’s not a “reality” they care to acknowledge.
1
1) Why is there no mention of Putin weighing in on the attack?
2) That paragraph you have in parenthesis is your collective journalistic conscience. THAT is a story worth of an Editorial board.
Bow-tie man advises botox man? Say it ain't so!
As this editorial has evidenced, the NYT's editorial board has gone completely off the rails.
And inside the Kremlin, Vlad is winking.
Praise for Trump in the NYT?!
We've got a raging bull calling the shots and we're counting on the rodeo clowns for damage control. Is that all there is?
The processes for assessing risks and responses are outdated. We’re still living primitive lives - our natural selves, which we carry out through systems of governance, only with vastly superior technology.
This is not a Trump problem. He’s just a product of his environment - and nature. This is a global problem.
It’s a very dangerous situation, and the sooner we get to systems of governance that manifest enlightenment, the faster the world will become the safer and better place we all intend for ourselves.
1
I find it extraordinary that anyone believes a word out of Trump's mouth. I suggest you look to the evidence. What is the most likely sequence of events?
And the most proximate causes of this near hot conflict.
This is one more case of Mr Trump causing a crisis, then taking credit for being "the hero". Look, we're all talking about him.....that's his number one goal. Face facts America, you screwed up. You put a narcissist in the oval office. "Erase the Mistake" 2020
1
I wonder if trump still believes pulling out of the deal and maximum pressure were such a good idea. Watching how he works he thinks everyone will cave to his demands as he tightens the screws. Iran, China, Cuba, NK, Ven. have proven him wrong. I believe we should rejoin the deal so we have a path to talk with Iran although I believe its too late to regain their trust.
2
It appears as though Trump was a victim of his own indecision—first opting to strike, perhaps in a show of bravado, then having second thoughts....which, in a more competent President might have been first thoughts. Iran afterall, is not Syria. With the clock winding down Trump evidently thought he could mask what his generals might perceive as weakness by inventing a drama that would not only demonstrate estimable restraint, but portray deep humanitarian strains, hitherto undiscovered. He isn’t fooling anyone. There is a reason no president should have the right to strike militarily without approval from Congress except under conditions of imminent peril, and that goes for retaliatory actions. And the reason is all the more underscored in the current Commander in Chief.
3
@Steve Unfortunately, he is fooling his base. On the websites I've seen, they bought it hook, line, and sinker.
1
We are witnessing brinksmanship between trump........and trump.
Even worse, he claims to 'go with his gut' when making what appear to be impulsive decisions. As big as that is, it is also choleric, subject to unexpected and violent eruptions of crap.
trump is unfit to hold power to start wars; he's unfit, period.
3
What’s more likely? The generals gave casualty estimates at every step of the way or that Trump wan’t paying attention until the last 10 minutes? That the joint chiefs explained that casualties were likely or that he was watching TV at the time? That Trump, one of the cruelest men on the planet when it comes to foreigners, suddenly developed a conscience when it came to well being of Shia Muslims in Iran? Or is it more likely that a Fox TV host convinced him that attacking Iran would hurt his reelection chances if it drove up the price of gasoline at the pump? That the generals went awol or that Trump is lying?
Like journalists at the Times, I just can’t decide.
3
I cannot believe that in the briefings leading up to the decision to carry out the bombings that no one mentioned that there would be human casualties ....
What an easy time it is for journalists these days. All you have to do is rattle off a list of Trump's latest folly. Why would any journalist want to risk disapproval by demanding that we repeal Citizens United, the Supreme Court decision that allowed billionaires to control our elections.
2
What right do Donald Trump and arrogant hawkish people like Liz Cheney have to decide the fate of American’s sons and daughters—by sending them off to another catastrophic war? Apparently none of these warmongering individuals have sons and daughters to sacrifice but most Americans do!
Americans are barely recovered from the last costly Republican war in Iraq and many of their young people never will recover!
Deciding Not to attack Iran after the drone strike is the only decent thing Trump has done during his
Presidency.
Americans do NOT want war with Iran or any country. Furthermore, suspicions surround the
“so called proofs” our government offers regarding Iran’s guilt in either the ship explosion or the drone downing. Our present government is in no way trustworthy. They lie.
We must and will protest further military interventions in the Middle East, openly, audibly and even in the streets.
3
What in heaven's name leads you to believe that the current occupant is making ANY decisions about ANYTHING? What leads you to believe that he is NOT simply a puppet being manipulated by the nefarious people who got him elected? If you are privy to any information that points toward his having any hand in any decisions, please share it. Otherwise, please don't normalize this inept presidency by attributing anything to its false front.
1
Trump is a putative deal maker. He always wants to "make a deal". He wants another mark on the wall he can trumpet on his campaign trail in red states by "making a better deal with Iran". I doubt he really cares if Americans are injured or killed in any context, although as a former combat veteran I expect that there are more supporters in the military than those that do not.
I wish the NYTimes would stop comparing Trumps decision to Obama and Clinton. It only serves to undermine his hesitation on war with Iran. This decision was one of the best he ever made.
Trump did neither the right thing nor the wrong thing. He did nothing. Lots of bluster but we’re in no different position than previously.
1
We should not, for one second, lose sight of the fact that Trump's actions to marginalize and provoke Iran are primary components of the existing tensions and perils in that region.
Furthermore, the world must now wonder what Trump's next decision will be based on his" highly intelligent" gut feeling. It reveals an entirely different angle of the concept of a "very stable genius".
2
1) A proportionate response involving clear factual analysis early in the process.
2) A decision making process that reflects a logical ordering of steps taken, with assured results delivered to the final arbiters.
3) Straightforward facts ascertained without ambiguity before a casts belli is declared.
4) Congressional approval
5) Consultation with allies and the building of consensus and coalition for any planned action.
I have simply summarized your suggestions, all excellent. Most previous administrations in the modern era would be capable of following them all, or most.
I have sincere doubts that this administration as presently constituted can follow any of them.
1
casus belli....
@Paul McGlasson it's casus belli
I don’t think we’ve ever seen such detailed reporting about a critical presidential decision. This sort of transparency will inevitably leads to criticism by arm-chair quarterbacks. What I see is a final decision that was a good one, and was consistent with a position Trump took in the election. The Times’ left-handed “compliment” about the final decision reflects more on their reflexive anti-Trump bias than the quality of the outcome.
4
Trump does not know how to think critically. He relies upon the wrong people. He is immature, uniformed, greatly ignorant of the history between Iran and the United States. Trump does not understand the culture of Iran nor do his so-called advisors and confidants. Importantly Trump is reluctant if not angered by receiving information and viewpoints that differ from his instincts. In other words Mr. Trump's decision making process is greatly flawed.
We should recall how President Kennedy was besieged by military advisors to strike with full force against Cuba and Russian forces in Cuba during the 1962 Missile Crisis.
This did not raise to that level. But, fortunately, Trump listened to the better angels of someone who courageously asked is an unarmed droned worth the lives of 150 Iranians.
3
Maybe Trump should look to JFK on how to BE more like a President. it might help.
1
He needed to respond. A response should have been formed, one without causing 150 deaths. I’m not sure what Iran’s intentions are, but they are certainly not helping themselves with these recent actions.
1
@Sid maybe the "fact" that our generals said we might have entered Iranian airspace was factored in.
Why would you take his word for it that how he said is how it happened? Doesn't the Editorial Board smell the storytelling behind the histrionics? His story which has all the believability of a television drama plot earned him this subheadline:"Donald Trump was right..."
17
@Lawrence Zajac . Sad that the NY Times editorial board, no less, reports Trumps words as fact when the truth is almost everything he says is a lie. I would expect that from Fox News.
Trump's heroic version of the scenario has him asking at the last minute how many people would be killed in the attack. Then he humanely calls it off when he learns that 150 people would likely be killed. He was probably lying since in all likelihood the military had already assessed the probable results of such an attack. It is more likely that he had second thoughts because of something he heard on Fox News.
13
Hey, even a MAGA Clock is Right, twice a Year. Don’t take it personally, or get TOO excited.
Seriously.
7
It is apparent that American hawkishness has moved beyond a doctrine of invasion and occupation in the name of democracy to just straight annihilation. Trump has threatened to obliterate Iran, something that makes moderate Republicans shudder. He pulled back from strikes because cooler heads prevailed. Now, it remains to be seen whether those cold craniums get cracked by hot hawks in retribution.
I believe that war with Iran is quite a long way off. Civil war, however, within the Republican Party seems imminent.
3
So Trump made the right decision on Iran, at least for now. But will it last? What scares me is the chaos that surrounds his decision making, the clown car of advisers trying to get his ear and the fact that that this reality show president can change his mind on a dime, simply because he wants to look good rather than do good. When Bolton, Pompeo, Tucker Carlson, Liz Cheney and a once principled-turned-sycophant Lindsey Graham have a say in our foreign policy I am not reassured.
10
I agree with most of these conclusions. But, Iran has been literally getting away with murder since 1979 when it started its murderous regime by taking American hostages. Since then it has been killing its way across the Middle East and across Europe in some cases. Many Americans like myself feel that wars in Iraq and Vietnam were a fools gambit and a waste of American resources. However, I for one, would like some payback for those hostages Iran got away with. If there is a bad guy in the Middle East it is Iran. Everybody who has read a newspaper for forty years knows this. Not, Saudi Arabia, which the New York Times seems to prefer as their Middle East bad guy. Let’s not forget that the war in Yemen has Iran directly involved against the Saudis. Iran would like to rule the region much as the soviets wanted to eventually rule Europe. If the Iranians are not kept in check now, will we be able to do that later? That seems unlikely.
@Gastric Man For decades "our man" the Shah killed thousands of Iranians with our blessing. Many of the relatives of those people are still alive. How do you think they feel?
@Gastric Man Perhaps you might want to take a peak at what happened from 1953 through 1979.
Before we start praising Trump for his bizarre last minute "change of mind" and rescind his order to commence strikes on Iran,
we should ask why in the world he let it go so far in the first place.
This was all just a sick stunt.
Trump was completely informed and knew full well the estimated Iranian casualties long in advance of issuing the strike order. Trump ordered the strike anyway.
We are to believe Lying Donald J. Trump?
That he suddenly developed a "conscience" and empathy for the 135 Iranians he might kill?
I'm more inclined to believe the real President of the U.S.,
Sean Hannity, gave Trump a call at the very last minute and said,
"Listen Donald, not so sure you want to do this... it might make you look trigger happy and turn off some of our base. Do we really want to start WWIII over some downed drone that just might have "mistakenly" drifted into Iranian airspace? Let's rethink this... "
8
DT's "decision" was all about him. It was the right decision for the wrong reason. He only cares about a "war" that may hinder his 2020 chances.
5
When Trump makes a wise decision, it is startling, but we should not go too far to find flaws in this one. It appears Trump actually leveraged lives against hardware, and lives won. Let's just be grateful. Playing simplistic, partisan football is a losing game and it has already given us Trump.
1
I never thought that I would ever say it about Trump but his decision to NOT attack Iran is absolutely RIGHT. The last thing that we want right now is another devastating war that too in the Middle East.
4
I would never have expected to be grateful to Tucker Carlson saving us and the world from an inconsiderate and deadly decision. But it has happened and it must be done. So, Thanks Mr. Carlson.
6
If the drone were flying in international air space, one would assume that the wreckage of the shoot-down would have landed totally or mostly in international waters. But there was video of Iranian officials displaying the wreckage of the craft. Is this to suggest that the American military sat idly by while the Iranians retrieved components of a $200 million U.S. military asset containing top-secret technology? Or were the Iranians telling the truth all along about the drone violating their airspace, thus staying the president’s hand? Surely it wasn’t because of the possibility of 159 casualties, as we’ve killed far more than that for far less a “provocation.”
11
@Dennis Smith Moreover, given the history of lies and unexamined assumptions by this administration, others before it and the many conflicts world wide involving various nations, credibility is a significant issue and rightfully so.
4
"Restraint and patience...and Donald Trump."
These words don't belong in the same sentence with the name of this president. Many are calling his approach to making major decisions unorthodox given the chaos surrounding his staff.
While I agree with the outcome, the details of who is advising the president is frightening. Since when are highly parisan political pundits on FOX news, a media outlet whose opinon hosts are dominated by conspiracy-thinking, "take no prisoners" personalities, replacing the sober analysis of an experienced Secretary of Defense?
Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity have more influence on this TV-obsessed president than a slew of foreign policy experts.
America got lucky this time when Carlson told the president this decision would hurt him personally. What happens the next time when the bold and usually uniformed Hannity gets Trump's ear to tell him, "it's time to bomb the hell out of Iran"?
Americans have a right to be terrified.
35
@ChristineMcM
I don't know, Trump's first priority is getting re-elected. That priority precludes acting against his mob's mentality, specifically, in this case, foreign wars.
He thus doesn't have carte blanche. (Even the CEO has a boss.)
The Editorial Board should be disbanded for thinking the National Idiot had a shred of concern for human lives … shame on you.
17
It defies logic to accept Donald Trump's version of the events surrounding the response to the Iranian downing of a U.S. drone. After everything that has transpired in the last three years, why is the media taking Trump's word on what happened? His statement is absurd. Quoted from NPR website:
"In an interview with Meet the Press host Chuck Todd, the president said that about 30 minutes before the operation was to take place, his national security team came to him and asked for his final decision.
"I said, I want to know something before you go," Trump recalled. "How many people will be killed — in this case, Iranians. I said, how many people are going to be killed?"
His military team said it would find out, Trump told Todd, and came back with the answer that approximately 150 people would very likely die.
The president said:
"I thought about it for a second and I said, you know what, they shot down an unmanned drone, plane, whatever you want to call it, and here we are sitting with 150 dead people, that would have taken place probably within a half an hour after I said go ahead.
"And I didn't like it. I didn't think — I didn't think it was proportionate.""
The idea that no one had bothered to ascertain the number of casualties that would result from an operation, that Trump asked at the last minute for a number and his people had to scurry off to find out, and that it took him "a second" to decide the response was disproportionate, the whole thing is absurd.
19
Many have compared the Trump presidency to a “reality show,” but the events sequence events in today's front page article“Input From All Over, Going by Instinct” seem more unreal: A Fox News show host helps convince the president to reject the advice of his national security team.
Wars, which result in people being killed, should be fought only if absolutely necessary. From the information we know so far, President Trump ultimately did the right thing. But with this present style of governance, I fear the reverse result can just as easily happen.
5
Let's ponder, shall we? Is it in the least credible that a so-called president who has caused immeasurable human suffering along the southern border without a scintilla of empathy suddenly became Mr. Sensitive over the potential loss of human life resulting from a strike against Iran? This is utterly transparent - someone, probably either his campaign manager or his treasury secretary, or perhaps his lawyer (aka: attorney general) charged with keeping him out of prison, convinced him that a strike would spike oil prices, sending the global economy into the recession toward which it is already headed. Reelection is of paramount importance in order to forestall his prosecution, and also to enable the continued self-enrichment he derives from the office. MAGA, one outrage at a time.
6
I fear Trump will fail to grasp the tone of this editorial and will instead crow that even "the failing New York Times" is calling him "wise."
7
Trump is the exact Opposite of TR: Speak loudly and hire a caddy carry your sticks.
6
@EW
G.O.L.F
The R.E.A.L. reason DJT cancelled his attack on Iran at the very last minute as military flights were already on their way to deliver the first airstrikes:
Trump would have to cancel his golf weekend.
1
Could this mean that Donald Trump will change his attitude about Charlottesville?
1
Since when has Trump ever shown any compassion to 150 human beings, let alone 150 Iranians? I understand that the NYT is trying to show that they are even-handed in their opinions and Editorials, but this opinion does not sound real. But I suppose after being accused of Treason by Trump, one has to be careful.
In fact, I have found it curious that Trump has not been shown that lots of his rhetoric and actions smack of Treason..
6
Why should other nations be enlisted in further economic or military measures just because a CiC who is ill qualified for the role, and has caused this conflict in the first place wants to bully a nation even more?
There comes a time when truth and justice must prevail. Under Trump, the US is becoming a rogue state where laws are ignored because of a machiavellian imposter in the WH.
Justice is well overdue in the case of Donald J Trump.
4
Glad to hear Liz Cheney was upset about Trump's restraint. The apple does not fall far from the tree.
3
@LVG
Puleesse.. another war-monger Cheney rears their ugly head again.
1
So now Tucker Carlson, an unelected right-wing history major with a strictly religious education, this wannabe journalist, is making defense policy? This is almost as stupid and dangerous as Jared and Ivanka prancing around the world making foreign policy. America is doomed if the president is listening to unqualified idiots like this.
15
Trump is a "hear me now, listen to me later" kind of guy. It is almost certain that he was told of potential casualties up front in the discussions about the attack. But the information didn't filter through his grey matter until he got cold feet and needed an explanation for turning the planes around. This is not a sane way of conducting deliberations over war. Unfortunately, I don't look for much in the way of improvement since we can't even seem to get a Senate-confirmed Defense Secretary.
5
It appears that the stock market rose at the prospect of this incident leading to an increase in oil prices. Which the consumer would pay. Maybe a booming stock market at the expense of the rest of us isn't really the sign of a good economy.
4
It would also be welcome news for many Americans to learn that our foreign policy and decisions regarding use of military force are NOT made after consultation with Fox News pundits.
But once again we are meant to accept as the new normal that our President while deciding an airstrike on a foreign nation is talking with Tucker Carlson about how such a decision would affect his re-election efforts. Are we just plain lucky that Trump would lose votes from his base so opted for a NO?
That is not rational and ethical consideration. This entire Iran situation is a creation of #Deranged Donald's malignant ego and the bottomless black hole of need that drives Trump. Hatred of Obama and his achievements. Having to always appear to be a manly-man tough guy. Trump's belief that he knows more than any other human on earth. The list is too long.
It would really be good news if America could trust our President to act based on facts, ethics and the laws of our land. That will not happen as long as Trump remains the TV producer for his daily show and we continue to accept this con job as actual leadership.
Our entire Congress needs to reclaim their rightful position in consulting with the POTUS and then voting on any military force used by us.
11
Sorry to be cynical, but wasn't this "patient" decision really Trump's response to Tucker Carlson's warning that if he struck, Trump would lose the election?
20
@Barbara Anderson
Amen. I thought Sean Hannity was the POTUS whisperer,
but there are so many voices in Trump's head...
Putin, Hannity, Stephen Miller, John Bolton, Fox and Friends and yes, Tucker's probably in there too.
1
Beyond seeking the approval of Congress, the administration also ought to be working to convince nations that share American values of the justification for retaliating against Iran — and perhaps to enlist them in any punitive economic or military measures.
What values? And what retaliation is the Times preparing to endorse? It is already starting to sound like its laying the groundwork for future complicity in criminal undertaking. A very familiar and disgraceful role the Times has played over the decades.
2
Perhaps the decision is not the Decider in Chief's to make.
3
Thank goodness for the generals at the Pentagon who brought some reason to this chaos, since all the adults left in the Republican Party have departed. Oh, how the nation misses John McCain.
2
What is really disturbing is not Trump decision not to attack Iran, I support it, but the almost unanimous decision in the government to do it. It shows once again that our military is thirsty for more blood to justify their senseless existence as a tool of the empire.
8
@Pablo Cuevas Excellent point.
1
@Pablo Cuevas
Let me get this straight.
Trump dissolves the nuclear agreement with Iran, accusing Iran of "non compliance" even there is no evidence showing this.
Trump punishes Iran with increasing sanctions.
Trump demands Iran live up to the agreement Trump dissolved.
Iran shoots down an american drone they claim was in their airspace.
Allied nations do NOT agree with Trump, but he orders airstrikes anyway.
Someone (?) FINALLY convinces or threatens Trump to cease and desist at the very last minute from his senseless, reckless, displays of arrogance and power.
And yet Nancy Pelosi does nothing...
Failure to impeach this incompetent, corrupt president is a blatant violation of her oath of office.
Nancy needs to step down.
pretending to be Potus, as soon as possible!
Every Trump branded property is a high visibility soft target. The GOP gave him a pass on the emoluments clause, and now our countries hands are tied. Shame.
2
Who out there believes anything Trump says?
He lies all the time and flip flops on almost every issue. Trump creates the problem and then says he fixed it.
The border problem is his doing, getting out of the Iran deal, after fire and fury then comes love are just a few examples of his unstable behavior.
Tucker Carlson told him you'll ruin your chances of getting reelected if you strike Iran. Trump heard that and the strike was off.
It's always about Trump and how he can benefit.
It's never about doing the right thing for all of the American people.
First Trump takes care of himself and then he makes sure his base is with him which, of course, means he's taking care of himself.
20
Please, we have to get rid of this man. He's destroying our country and he's doing despicable things in the name of us. He's a clear and present danger. Why does no one in government act?
12
We don’t know what is or is not true.
The drone could well have been just inside Iranian territory but crashed in international waters. We don’t know.
Trump may have been given a head count of potential casualties a couple days ago, but was seeing if he could get a new number. We don’t know. But the idea that he cares about fatalities is ludicrous.
Trump may actually be afraid of taking an overt action against another country because he doesn’t know what to do once he does. But we don’t know.
What we do know is that he likes to bluster and threaten in hopes that his opponents will back down. This maybe works with contractors and opponents in something relatively simple like commercial real estate when nothing but money hangs in the balance, but it doesn’t work as well in geopolitics. Trump is playing a dangerous game with no clue about how things work. This instance was easy to back off from. But what would he do if one of our warships were fired on?
(It is informative, by the way, to note that airlines are re-routing flights so they don’t pass over Iraq.)
I have long thought Trump wants an excuse to drop a nuke on another nation, because it would show how powerful he is. Fortunately, he just hasn’t found the right victim yet.
1
Buy himself time on Iran...to do what?
Iran isn't nearly the provocateur that the US is. How many Iranian warships are in the West Pacific? How many Iranian drones buzz our coast? How many Iranian officials meddle in our regional affairs? How many try to hamstring our economy by backroom deals with our neighbors? How many Iranians have a proxy war at our national border, or heavily fund enemies near to us? How many Americans has Iran killed?
This is resident Trump doing all he knows how to do: stagecraft. Rushing in at the nick of time to "save" 150 lives, weighed against a drone? This stinks of Pompeo and Bolton at the curtains, whispering lines. It's time for the shepherd's crook before any other 150 people in this world are at Trump's mercy. That, even our enemies don't deserve.
8
The strategy has worked. You’re talking about the “president ‘s” “wisdom” at holding off on the attack through an idiotic decision-making process instead of the fact that he was installed by Russia and is under investigation for obstruction of justice.
7
Trump likes to make decisions in the moment. He is totally OK with contradiction, pivot, agility - whatever you like to call it.
He approved preparation initially so that any action would be seen as prompt, but he knew that the crunch decision time would come later. He probably didn't over-burden himself with the details at that point.
When crunch time came he reviewed the factors, partly for theater and partly to confirm the direction his gut told him he was heading. He announced his decision - a correct one, in this case. He then went on twitter to portray himself as a compassionate hero who had stood up to the hawks.
Classic Trump.
There are some upsides: transparency, the discombobulation of John Bolton, the decision itself, though only because it defers the consequences of a string of poor decisions.
The incident also confirms that Trump is instinctively reluctant to take life. A good thing. America's enemies knowing it - that is another matter.
The downside is that the decision-making process itself is a narcissistic shambles - a series of disasters waiting to happen. It works for in-the-moment, look-at-me Trump. It cannot work for the functioning and well-being of a checks-and-balances, democratic republic. It cannot work for the stability and prosperity of the global community.
Despite Trump's back-down, this situation remains considerably more worrying to me than the confrontation with North Korea at its height.
1
Trump's logic of a disproportionate response with estimated 150 killed is correct. I respect it.
14
@KG But don't you wonder why this didn't occur to him more than ten minutes before making the strike? Nobody told him???
12
@KG
trump's logic of issuing an order without either knowing or comprehending the consequences is utterly incorrect. I do not respect it or any other of his impulsive threats.
14
@Sarah D.
Of course they did.
That big WH meeting with congressional representatives earlier in the day and NO ONE asked about casualties?
Of course, they did.
That's the FIRST thing that is discussed.
This was all a big stunt that backfired,
It only made Trump look confused, dazed and weak as he takes advice from a Fox News pundit, Tucker
Carlson.
14
Whether the Iranians were justified or not, this was precipitated by Trump's own policy. And now we are supposed to fall in awe at Trump's wisdom and humanity. Of course that requires believing him, which is a far stretch.
11
Personally, I have a hard time believing that Trump was concerned about killing Iranians. More likely, the "science" that he spoke of, with regard to the location of that drone, shows that we did indeed violate Iranian air space, and other (former?) allies will be able to confirm this as well. I mean, geez, we all have GPS and satellites that were developed for this very purpose. We know exactly where that drone was, but we surely can't admit it.
12
There's some comfort in reading that there's more comments admitting they aren't fooled one bit by Trump's claim that he called off the bombing because he's concerned about the loss of non American lives.
11
It is strange that Trump called off the strike after learning it was likely to kill about 150 Iranians; it seems that he initially ordered the strike without the understanding that it would cause significant loss of life. The thought process that appears to underlie his decisions ..... does not inspire confidence; it inspires fear.
9
It will be interesting to see what our former allies decide, if anything, at their meeting next week. Apparently Europe is already preparing an alternative currency system designed to defang the US threat of cutting ties to US banking if Europe refuses to support US sanctions on Iran. In this situation I would think Europe would mostly be interested in relieving Iran from US sanctions, primarily to ensure it will continue to comply with the nuclear agreement that Trump has defied, but now also to push back against US threats of war against Iran. China and India are continuing to purchase Iranian oil, they do not support sanctions. There seems to be a significant risk that Europe will defy Trump, isolating the US. Trump's faith in his ability to bully other countries into supporting the US, even against their own interests, is being tested. Hopefully Tucker Carlson will help him figure out a way to salve his ego. Oh and yes, I think Russia does not support a US war with Iran.
4
Yep. Broken clocks are all right twice a day. Problem is the rest of the time. And Trump is a huge problem the rest of the time.
Plus, I'm fully expecting to hear a leak that this whole run-up, this whole lock and loaded, but I, out of my respect for Iranian life put a stop to it act was simply that. An act. A made for TV act. As I feel everything out this WH is made for TV.
To think Trump called off this attack over the death toll is specious and laughable. Since when did he grow a conscience? Where is it in regards to the caged children on our southern border? The soap-less, bed-less, safe and sound and sanitary free zone he's being gracious to provide them.
The day Trump grows a conscience is the day we all learn there really is a God, a Santa Claus and an Easter Bunny! And that's not gonna be a good day for any of us!
3
What a strangely naive editorial.
It rightly implies Trump's hypocrisy about his alleged concern for human lives.
But it credits his "wisdom."
It's obvious to everyone that Trump ramped up the threat of military action in order to dramatically call it off at the last minute and thus appear thoughtful and "wise."
Creating a crisis and then playing the hero by averting it cannot be an unfamiliar, childish trick to the grownups on the Editorial Board.
A bit more skepticism is in order here.
6
My guess is that Trump’s decision to call off this strike had less to do with anticipated casualties than with Tucker Carlson’s advice that if he got into a war with Iran he could kiss his re-election chances goodbye. When has this president ever considered the fate of others when his own is at stake?
16
I find it remarkable that the media is taking Trumps word on this, a man who has lies about literally everything is describing himself heroically pulling out of an attack because he only found out 10 mins before of the casualties. (Almost impossible he wouldn’t have been told before hand)
Incredible everyone is taking Trumps account of this as truth
10
Still amazed journalists believe this story on face value. Trump spent years conning Wall St and the media and making a living in scripted ‘reality’ television.
To me it is more than likely that this whole ‘pull us back from the brink’ was premeditated.
13
"Trump was right to buy himself time on Iran".
How many different ways can this story be spun even by you. Trump obviously does not know what he is doing. It really is as simple as that.
5
The Middle East is an almost total mess. Years of blood feuds, within nations and between, have created a cauldron of potential for war. We should stay out of it completely.
3
The same chaos--as usual--from the White House but, thank god, Trump made the right call this time. Tucker Carlson, as much as I loathe him, deserves some credit too for talking Trump down from the brink. I only hope Trump will continue to stand up to Bolton and Pompeo who are a much greater threat to our national security than Iran.
3
@M
Or he could just fire them.
1
Really, it is simple. A workable treaty had been negotiated by President Obama. Trump couldn't handle having anything with Obama's name, no matter how good, remaining in place. Trump upends it and Iran, assessing the crisis of the broken promise, reacts in a way that gets Trump's attention. Trump's hawks press for retaliation and escalation, but Trump sees the political downside, so he stands down citing a false empathy with the loss of life. Trump thinks he looks like a hero for considering war and then looks like a bigger hero for not engaging. "Yippee, I win," he crows triumphantly. "You love me!"
A simple script for a simple man, completely incapable of comprehending the implications any decision he makes beyond self-aggrandizement. Well, maybe he figured this one out. Congratulations on putting your toys away, Donnie. What a big boy you are!
7
wow Dear Republican Leader made a considered and forthright decision for a change, keep it up Donald
2
When the Buffoon-In-Chief does the right thing, irrespective of his motives or uncertainties, we should applaud and encourage him. It’s much the same as training a Bulldog or Basset Hound. Positive reinforcement by applauding good behaviour is always the best strategy.
Well done! Who’s a good boy?
4
@Norman McDougall
I like your humor.
But Trump planned this to make himself look like a hero.
He had no intention of actually launching a strike. It was a show.
It is, however, alarming that he has the ability to murder people at a distance on a momentary whim.
Maybe I'm desperate, but I cling to any glimmer of a peaceful act like a drowning man to a straw. Let's hope it means there is a little humanity left within the American wolf.
Well, I am now experiencing exactly what I feared I would, starting just about five minutes after Trump got elected. We are on the precipice of a major crisis and I don’t believe one word of what our so-called president and his lackeys are saying about it. That’s what happens when someone lies all the time - nobody believes them even if they do occasionally tell the truth.
9
i wanted to throw up as i listened to trump say that the loss of 150 iranian lives was not proportionate to the loss of our drone. that man cares no more for iranian lives than he does the separated immigrant children at our south border. he doesn't even care about the loss of the $200M drone. his only desire was to APPEAR caring about the loss of life, which in reality, didn't give him a nanosecond of pause. trump is without conscience. i still feel like throwing up.
6
Until he fires Bolton and Pompeo the situation will stay on the brink.
6
The NYT can't be accused of actually cheerleading war between the U.S. and Iran, but it's talking around the issue as excitedly as it can and doing its best to make Mr. Trump look like a warmonger, an unsteady hand on the tiller, or at least a fool. The evidence of the last 2 years is that Mr. Trump is pretty cautious in his foreign policy. He appears to threaten, he changes his mind disconcertingly often giving at least unclear signals to both friends and foes, but he plays his cards pretty close to the vest--he's not actually a big risk-taker. It would be nice if the NYT could acknowledge that, but that's not what its readers want, they like to read the worst of Mr. Trump, and in any case, a calm, measured tone is not what sells subscriptions, so . . .
Exactly. I'm glad he stopped the attack... but 10 minutes?
How could he authorise the attack without having the potential collateral damage information. Or was it in a written report that he didn't read?
And, since when is he concerned about the loss of human life? What about those tens of thousands of civilian casualties in Yemen? The dead immigrant children on our southern border? The thousands of dead Puerto Ricans after the hurricane? The dead Americans who die from gun violence every day? The Americans who can no longer afford their medicines or even basic healthcare as ACA is attacked by his administration?
His "compassion" makes me sick. He lies 90% of the time and the other 10% is edited to make him look competent and presidential.
We are still 10 minutes away from the next disaster.
6
Trump doesn’t listen to military generals, doesn’t listen to diplomats, doesn’t listen to his advisors (who he hand-picked, of course), doesn’t listen to Congress, but rather he listens to a Fox COMMENTATOR?
Good grief! This is unbelievably crazy and what keeps me awake at night, worrying.
7
The NYT can't actually be accused of cheerleading war between the U.S. and Iran, but it's been talking around the issue as excitedly as it can and doing its best make Mr. Trump look like a warmonger, an unsure hand on the tiller, or at least a fool. The evidence of the past two years is that Mr. Trump is in fact pretty cautious in his foreign policy. He appears to threaten, he changes his mind disconcertingly often, gives unclear signals to both friends and foes, but plays his cards reasonably close to the vest; he's not a big risk-taker. It would be nice if the NYT could acknowledge that, but of course that's not what its readers want, they like to read the worst of Mr. Trump no matter what, and a calm, measured tone isn't what sells subscriptions, so . . .
2
@Ronald B. Duke
What he actually is is a phony.
He arranges crises and then "resolves" them to make himself look good.
However, let's not forget that he did actually launch airstrikes against Syria in order to boost his image as "tough."
The innocent people he killed puts him right in line with previous war criminals Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama.
"Also concerning is a report from The Times that the United States military cannot say for certain whether or not the drone violated Iranian sovereignty, as officials in Tehran have claimed."
Well, this is very disconcerting because if the plane was indeed in international waters, how were the Iranians able to beat the US Navy to the wreckage of the plane in the sea?
2
How very proportionate:
Child separation as a revenge punishment for immigration.
Trillions in tax cuts for the 1%, pennies for the rest.
If you're a star they let you do it.
Near-incessant golfing and personal enrichment on the tax payer dime.
If they offer dirt I'll collude again.
A private server? Lock her up!
From a Muslim country that the Trumps never did business with? Travel ban.
A gov shutdown ruining lives depending on an open government for business, solely pulled off for grossly miscalculating the leverage of your extortion shtick.
Denying and falsifying science that tells it as it is and will soon be, solely to protect polluter profits.
The Saudi become top secret brandnew nuclear weapon technology in exchange for them immensely enriching the Trumps.
Disruptive trade war for the joy of disruption.
I don't like people who get captured.
I got bonespur in (the monument for) my unknown soldier foot.
He knew what he signed up for.
Do we need a new Nobel "Peace in Anguish" Prize for perpetual last-minute chickening out of self-fabricated crises no matter the shambles left? War is the extension of the economic war that the looters of the universe wage upon us all and it is forever escalating (from) the context of religious spite and bigotry. Is there a thing that FoxNews is calling for that Trump hasn't followed up on? You can't forever threaten and pull out. When Fox changes its tone, restraint will be gone.
There will be war. Ugly, disproportionate war.
4
Canada has been a close ally for many years. We were there for Americans when 9/11 happened welcoming and caring for thousands of stranded passengers. We also stood side by side with the American military in Afghanistan and Canadian soldiers gave their lives. However, we are now seeing a US leadership that lies and misleads , appears unprepared for serious negotiations , exhibits erratic behaviour on and no consistent foreign policy , treats allies like the enemy yet demands support and respect from the very nations they have minimized and insulted. In addition they abrogated a nuclear treaty with Iran negotiated by them with their allies provoking massive discord in the Middle East. Given these decisions I think I speak for most Canadians in saying that we would be most reluctant to have any Canadians involved in any military action against Iran or be part of any military coalitions or negotiation efforts led by the US .Unfortunately America has lost considerable trust and respect here and around the world. While this may not concern American leadership at this time inevitably history has proven the need for strong alliances. Without them the US may discover that America the Great is an illusion.
13
Trump concerned about other people? Who aren't Americans? If that were so, it would be a first. But this mess of a decision-making process was not ground breaking. It was, especially after getting his Fox News consult via TV, an exercise in brand protection. He thought a strike would adversely affect his re-election chances. Right action for the wrong reason by a man thoroughly out of his depth.
5
There is a lot of speculation about what goes on in Trump's mind. Could it be that (all the time, more or less) he is just asking himself: "What would Hillary do?"
8
I don't believe for a moment that Trump is concerned for the lives of others. If he was, he would support universal health care, environmental protection, and humane immigration policies. His primary concerns are to remain in power and achieve reelection. In this instance he is simply trying to expand his base.
37
All this threat of war with Iran can be laid at the feet of Donald Trump. His decision to abandon the nuclear treaty with Iran (because it was initiated by President Obama with buy in from other world leaders) puts the world in jeopardy. If war is to commence, then any fallout, including deaths will be the responsibility of Mr. Trump and his war mongering advisers who previously led the U.S. down the rabbit hole of war. The United States should not be selling itself out as a mercenary to Saudi Arabia and its religious war with Iran.
24
I do not believe Trump canceled the attacks. I believe they were unsuccessful. You mention the shipping lanes. Is this all about oil again? Is there nothing more important than oil?
As far as Iran goes, re-establishing ties and seeking peace is the best solution. There are many moderates in Iran. We saw this during the Green Revolution. We see it in Rouhani, the leader who negotiated the Iran deal. We must re-enter the Iran deal. That is the only way out.
23
Come on. "Casualty estimates are routinely given to their commanders and their civilian bosses early in the process . . . "
Of course they are. Trump may not have paid attention to his briefing, but the whole story as he told it was "exaggerated," to put it mildly, to make him look good.
Let's also not forget that Trump canceled the treaty we had with Iran, against the advice of our allies--he caused this crisis. We can't afford to let this president (and Bolton) bumble into a costly war.
70
@Susannah
Bolton has got to go. DJT may be personality disordered, but Bolton is a mad man.
2
@badman Both are badmen!
1
Given Trump's reluctance to engage in yet another war in the Middle East, I suspect he will just leverage Iran's provocations in extracting more compliance from our allies in tightening the economic sanctions. As David Ignatius noted in a Washington Post op-ed, Trump is playing the long game to fold Iran through economic collapse and they can't afford to play that game (hence their acting out). Also, as Scott Adams pointed out yesterday on Periscope, by Trump saying that taking 150 Iranians wouldn't have been a proportional response, this signals that he values their lives more than the Ayatollah does.
4
@Jack
Trump is handling this quite well, better in fact than his predecessors, because he gets to play good cop to his Pentagon's bad cop. Iran now believes it's only Trump standing between them and a Pentagon attack. The threat is there without any military action.
@Jack,
Given the rest of this president's history, it's naive in the extreme to attribute to him any but the basest of self-aggrandizing motives.
Trump is not "playing the long game." He is, as usual, bumbling about from moment to moment with, unfortunately, his finger on the trigger of a disastrous military adventure.
It's surprising that anyone could forget that the emperor has no clothes.
6
If you believe even half of this article, there's a bridge in Brooklyn with your name on it. It'll be years before we find out what really happened here and what didn't. Regardless, this situation is merely an example of the dystopian dysfunction that's destroying our democracy multiple times a day.
Vote.
27
He's worried only about staying power, and thinks that going to war will hurt his chances. He'll wait until he is re-elected before starting a war with Iran.
25
We have men at the top who are boys who like to play with guns. It is frightening to think what they may do at any time. When will Congress aggressively act to be responsible?
20
@Gordon Alderink I don't think their global empire games are in the best interests of Americans or the world. At this moment my it is hard to think of America as a force for good.
It's fascinating to watch the NYT and other Trump critics pivot from claiming he's taking us to war to nitpicking his decision process in not taking us to war. They are so deeply in a rut when it comes to Trump, they cannot stop digging.
7
It hardly seems “nitpicking” to point out that Trump either wasn’t paying attention to the initial report on the casualty count, didn’t absorb it, or lied about when he was first told about it (presumably to come off as the hero). Which of those scenarios do you prefer?
127
@AACNY
As soon as Trump appointed John Bolton he dramatically ramped up the risk of war with Iran.
Perhaps Trump didn't know that, but it was clear to almost everyone else, both those who have wanted to bomb Iran for a long time, and those who wanted to continue to honor the Iran nuclear deal.
31
@Lynn Yes. The choice of Bolton and Popmpeo show that his campaign promise of less costly and pointless wars, was either bogus, or he didn't understand who they were.
10
He shouldn't have been attacking it in the first place. Diplomacy, trade, and contractual agreements are the first choice, and war is considered when all other options have been exhausted...
18
This whole episode just shows how Unengaged Trump is day to day.
There is no long term strategy. There is no great, cohesive team.
Trump is great at tearing up agreements but has no plan on how to proceed forward. He is a danger to the world and has diminished our standing and now no one believes us as the honest player because he has lied more than 10,000 times.
58
@Deirdre Trump and his administration are symbolic of everything else in his life. Utter failure at the expense of others and creating the impression of success when it is only a facade. Fake news? Fake President! Will Fake Democracy be next?....
1
Iran is not Syria, they have a serious military and are well armed. If attacked they will respond by attacking US military sites and allies. The is not a chance that Trump was actually following military advice - other than Jack Keane’s who is a bit long in the tooth. And if he is taking advice from Tucker Carlson and not military advisors, that should be setting off sirens of alarm.
31
It is commendable that ultimately, albeit ostensibly only at the very last minute, Trump decided to value human life and consider proportionality of response. Neither is something that he is routinely known to do.
Now, if he would only place the same value on American, already-born lives, while he instead moves toward tampering with life-protecting safety nets long ago established in our own country.
As for consistent proportionality of response to oft perceived provocation, that does not, generally, seem to be in Trump's tool bag.
8
The "very last minute" part was the Trump dependence on reality show practices to keep himself in the front of the news cycle. He knew the causality estimate early. There are conflicting reports whether the planes were in the air. His hesitation in answering Chuck Todd on that question, etc., etc. Why have so many serious people not figured this out yet?
37
@Fearrington Bob I think that Trumpistas will accept anything he says as gospel. Skeptics won't. That Trump appears to be playing fast and loose with the truth when it comes to what should be easily verifiable national security questions is totally characteristic of his shady and manipulative behavior.
4
@Fearrington Bob,
You're right.
But serious people have figured it out. Only Trump loyalists and the very naive have not.
The Editorial Board is waffling in terming Trump's decision "wise." The real word is "calculating."
3
Our president's process for decision-making is his own fantastic "gut instinct". He was correct, no matter how he arrived at his last minute decision, to hold back from striking Iran. He bought himself some time. Meanwhile the Iranian crisis simmers on a front burner of his stove. Our conflict with Iran is still on the brink as our conflict with North Korea was before the Korean War and our conflict with Vietnam before that war, too. And our national division and conflict before the Civil Wars and WWII.
Today across America there will be another terrible distraction in our trumpian dystopia. Trump has ordered thousands of undocumented immigrants (and their families) to be arrested in 10 large American cities. A monstrous diversion created by Donald Trump to take America's minds off what he has done to our standing in the world. And what he has done to our democracy.
A word to the wise, all Americans, who don't agree with #45's skewed decisions re our foreign and domestic politicies: it's time now for Congress to initiate Articles of Impeachment against Donald Trump. Our democracy has run out of time, patience and restraint.
19
There are many reasons why Iran's theocracy and a society kept in check by revolutionary guards that control parts of the economy are to be feared. At the same time, it seems as if Trump tries not to repeat the mistakes committed in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Middle East is a minefield.
Long-term strategic thinking is of the essence, spontaneous reactions and military adventures (of all sides) lead nowhere. What is also true: Persia/Iran used to be one of the greatest trading nations on earth. The international community was right to try and get them back on track; there's nothing that changes one's consciousness as much as the constant, friendly and peaceful exchange with other people.
12
This is why Washington needed an outsider. There IS a military-industrial complex, which believes that it is really in charge. I have no doubt that a Washington insider like Hillary would have easily caved by now to the chorus of voices demanding war to feed the machine.
4
@Greg
" I have no doubt that a Washington insider like Hillary would have easily caved by now"
In your imagination,
Hillary Clinton set up the sanctions regime (even getting Russia on board) that pressured Iran into signing the nuclear deal.
If she had been President, the nuclear constraint deal still would be in place, the moderates in Iran who supported moving away from confrontation would be empowered rather than undermined, and, as the current generation passes from the scene, the US and Iran would be moving towards restoring the better relations we had before the Republicans/CIA overthrew Iran's democratically elected government in the 1950s.
30
@Greg First off Hillary would have never gotten here. Iran is behaving this way in some measure because we pulled out of the Nuclear deal, and never delivered on some of the benefits to Iran. Secondly, there is no way that Pompeo, and Bolton would have ever ended up in her Cabinet. If you surround yourselves with war mongers, you can't or shouldn't be surprised by the advice and situations they create. See Dick Cheney as an example.
5
@Greg, you're missing the point. She never would have abrogated the agreement Obama worked out. So, no crisis to begin with. (And she never would have listened to, much less appointed, extremist hawks like Bolton.)
5
Chaos is infinitely preferable to another costly and unwinnable Middle East war.
7
@M
I would take the media's reporting of "chaos" with a grain of salt. Trump has his own style. They misjudge it constantly, often making projections that turn out to be wildly wrong. An example is the many columns The Times ran about his starting a war with Iran. Ditto for the nuclear war he was on the verge of starting with NK.
1
Sigh of relief everywhere... Of all people, who would have thought that we would owe Trump's rare act of wisdom to Fox's Tucker Carlson - in fact to the total absurdity of the present process by which war and peace decisions are influenced not by government experts, Congress or even public opinion at large, but by any one of the real Trump advisers at Fox News? There, in this case, the score is Carlson 1, Hannity 0.
11
The words "wise" and "Trump" rarely, if ever, appear in the same sentence. I suppose we should feel relief, but the ongoing horrors reinforce dread.
Why did America do this to itself?
26
@David Henry
We are reaping the seeds of "American Exceptionalism" sown all over the planet in the past 243 years.
2
You have to give credit for this thoughtful action by Donald Trump. He deserve this. This very action make him a Statesman
and Visionary. Now if he succeeds to denuclearize Korean peninsula, Nobel prize is waiting for him. Then comes 2020 Election, it will be a peanut. Nobody can stop him. Thank you Mr. 45th.
6
@Trevor Diaz
"ou have to give credit for this thoughtful action by Donald Trump"
He ordered an air strike. It was just minutes from being carried out. This is reckless, not thoughtful
@Trevor Diaz,
And that is exactly the response Trump engineered to obtain from his fan base.
Trump ramped up the threat of military action so that he could tear it down and appear a hero.
It is remarkable that to his supporters this is not an obvious con.
Well, as P. T. Barnum is alleged to have said ...
4
@Trevor Diaz:
And as befits a great Statesman, let him learn to take more care of his spelling. Or does he really not know the difference between sights and sites?
1
I could trade one American life for completely replacing the Iranian regime with some version of Swiss style democracy and Ghandi as their leader, would I do it? No, I wouldn't. Iran is none of my business, and it's hardly America's. They don't threaten us in any material way.
We need to stop manufacturing wars.
47
@David
You. Are. So. Right.
The Trump administration is a vivid illustration of the Peter Principle ("in a hierarchy, every employee tends to rise to their level of incompetence").
It is certainly a challenge to the popular delusion that this principle somehow doesn't apply at the top levels of government deciding our fate.
16
Pulling the brakes on the accelerating war machinery was certainly the right thing to do and should be used for a diplomatic approach to solve the crisis. If direct negotiations between President Trump and the Iranian leadership are off the table - why not accepting the help of a person who is respected by both sides. President Carter could do it - why shouldn’t that be possible now? Neither a war nor the sanctions nor nuclear weapons in Iran are good alternatives...negotiations are.
4
Trump was right in not going ahead. Kind of like a dead clock, it gets the time right twice every day. Subsequent disclosures have revealed a much more chaotic decision process. I'm not really that impressed. This man didn't turn into Winston Churchill in the last twenty-four hours.
10
One thing we all ought to be thankful for at this point is the wisdom of the founding fathers in insisting on a civilian Commander in Chief. Even a stumble bum like Trump was able to recognize the imbalance of the planned response.
I suspect the real story is that the military leaders were "pushing the envelope" with their fancy new drone, passing "just a little bit" into Iranian airspace, thinking their new toy was pretty much invulnerable. When the SAM did knock it out of the air, they had egg all over their faces, and of course a hard response was the perfect way to divert from their own culpability. I'm guessing they had Trump convinced that a swift, aggressive response would convince the Iranians to back down.
Whatever Trump's reason for pulling the plug, I'm grateful. But while we have the chance to do a bit of breathing here, we need to get very, very serious about oversight. This was a wakeup call for all of us - we have to pull back from the brink. Instead of drawing up battle plans, we need to figure out how to get back to the negotiating table. We may not get another opportunity.
20
"Beyond seeking the approval of Congress, the administration also ought to be working to convince nations that share American values..."
For the duration of this administration, does America have any values?
Or more pertinently, are the nations that share what appear to be America's current values (Hungary, Poland, Turkey, Saudi Arabia etc) the sort of nations that you want to risk going into a military adventure with?
Just a thought.
21
And many of America’s former (genuine) allies are thinking the same.
1
Even in praising him you manage to turn the column into one long criticism. You guys just don’t have it in you to just say ‘well done’.
12
@Once From Rome
We can't say "well done" because it wasn't. First thing this morning I turned on the radio to find out if we had gone to war overnight while I was sleeping. It was with an overwhelming sense of relief that I got out of bed and felt grateful to begin a normal day.
20
@Once From Rome
The point is that T is making earth shattering decisions in a chaotic way and that is what's made people very uneasy. He has fashioned his rule in the white house so that he has total power with no one to disagree with him. It's a very clever move for a very clever sociopath. He has actually gotten the world to get up to dance to his tune.
Let's just hope that T isn't golfing the next time a critical decision re: world war arises. Actually, why was T making a decision re: war by himself. Isn't the president to confer with congress before a war declamation is made? Why is he given a free pass to do anything he wants. The congress should reprimand him for not conferring with them.
He acts as if he's playing a board game and having so much fun with all the power he has.
38
@Once from Rome
This was a crisis largely of this administration’s own making. Not much well done about it. I am happy that he pulled the plug on this. But he has no idea what he is doing.
He is running the country like it is another reality show but with a much bigger audience. He can ratchet up the drama and get the world’s attention and a bigger audience share than he ever could as a private citizen but the rest of the world isn’t necessarily following his script. And when it starts to get real, it becomes clear he has no idea what he is doing.
If not for Bolton and Pompeo, I would half expect him to meet with Iran, re-sign the nuclear deal and claim victory much like he did with the NAFTA deal. He can tell his followers that he saved the world and got a better deal and they can tell everyone what a great dealmaker he is.
Based on how little he cares about the lives of people south of our border, it is hard for me to believe that 150 Iranian lives would mean much to him. Likely someone pointed out what this conflict would do to the world economy just before an election year...
50
The stupidity and ignorance of our "Commander-in-Chief" puts the United States, and indeed, the whole world, at great risk.
Mitch McConnell and his Republican lackies would sell us all out for a mere bowl of porridge. It's a few benefits for the very rich vs. the needs of the billions of ordinary people of the world.
Pathetic. Terrifying.
52
@pkbormes
In addition, Mitch McConnell will now nominate Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize. What great leaders we have!
@pkbormes
So in that regard, not much has changed in thousands of years.
Has it?
President Trump was indeed right to buy time on Iran and take the higher moral ground. By avoiding a knee jerk reaction and ignoring the drum beats of war, Trump has risen above the Washington dwarfs and soared to new heights. Thank goodness the powerful duo of Senators Graham and McCain is reduced to just Graham now and the warmongers are reduced to a weaker force. By revealing a plan that would have bombed military targets in Iran but not going through with it, Trump accomplished 2 things. He avoided death to Iranians and has put the scare of hell coming down from the skies. For the past week I have been hoping that there is no escalation from the American side but now I have to tell the Iranians time to negotiate a mutually beneficial peace.
7
The proposed acts of war, reduced to tweets by Trump, show the innate absurdity of this so-called administration. That Trump chooses to make decisions public in this way is demented.
242
Then why don’t I feel safe that Trump saved us from a bad situation he alone created?
Have we all started suffering Stockholm Syndrome already?
Hey, I’m glad we’re not spending blood and treasure over a drone, this is just a scene in Trump’s narcissistic play in the theatre of the absurd.
170
We can only hope that the meeting in Vienna of only the G4+1 find a solution to this dangerous escalation, one that was of Trump's making after puling the US unilaterally out of the Accord with Iran.
It seems that these other nations do trust the Iranian's version of the downed drone over their airspace more than the one of Trump and his itchy fingered sycophants Bolton and Pompeo.
6
Will the NY Times Editorial writers be the last persons on earth who keep trying to analyze Trump's actions as the if they came out of some type of rational thought? Added to that, at this point are the actions of his enablers.
Right now this country is in the process of being turned into a dictatorship by a mentally disturbed individual (as all dictators ultimately are), and as usual for this to happen it requires a weak and cowardice press and opposition party to sit by, bite their nails, and explain it away with lame excuses
You write, "Clarity on such a pivotal fact about the incident should be a prerequisite for any further action". Have you just totally lost your mind and perspective of what is happening around you? Nancy Pelosi has: "Hostilities must not be initiated without the approval of Congress". She's in LaLa land. Congress is nothing to Trump; he has been virtually ignoring it since gaining control of the Supreme Court. Anything and Everything now officially falls under executive action.
19
@Glenn Spot on.
Why should I believe that Trump is telling the truth when he says anything on Twitter?
18
Oh, Trump will get his war with Iran. Don't doubt that for a minute. He thinks not in terms of foreign policy, but in terms of TV ratings. Yesterday was the "teaser trailer." He wants to drum up as much "buzz" as possible before "the big show" premieres.
Don't be surprised if Trump orders missile strikes on the Fourth of July, with real-time surveillance drone video for maximum media impact. "Shock and awe," "rockets' red glare," and all that patriotic stuff, you know?
Hey, it worked for the Bushes with Gulf Wars I and II.
12
Thankful for small mercies? Who says a strike was imminent? The Liar In Chief? How little he needs to do now to get credit!
18
What a feeble excuse Trump gave about pulling back his strike. Actually, what stopped Trump from striking Iran now is that it isn't close enough to November 2020. Believe me, this is when we will see a first strike by the U.S., and I doubt it will be "proportionate". And if the past three years have taught us anything, he doesn't care how badly he hurts the country. Any aggression by the U.S. will be met with unanimous international condemnation (except for Israel, perhaps), further eroding our nation's standing. We will be very much alone.
And Trump has a good reason to use Iran as a run-up to 2020. He desperately wants to stay out of prison, and a war would propel him into a second term. Or, even better for him, he'll use the wholly unprovoked war he starts to claim that a "national emergency" requires that he cancel the election.
Either way, Trump doesn't care that the only result of such a war will be thousands of deaths of our young service men and women, tens of thousands of deaths of Iranian citizens, and a complete demolition of whatever little respect and international standing the U.S. still has.
Trump's voters are in lockstep with him, because any time he kills brown skinned people while consolidating absolute power is a win for them.
But from Trump's reign onward, our nation will be known as a willfully ignorant, racist backwater of a country that was once a beacon for human rights and a respected world leader. Thanks to Trump voters, those days are over.
77
@Kyle Reese Trump cares no one but himself. He has zero drop of compassion. Everything is transactional --his thinking and decision is based only on his own interests. If anyone cannot see this from what happened in the past two years, he's either lack of critical thinking, self-interests as trump, or delusional.
3
"Proportionate"? Golly, who taught the President such a big word? It is just so cute to hear him talk like that.
26
@Bruce. I had the same thought. From what we’ve seen these last four years proportionate response is not something that’s in his wheelhouse.
1
@Bruce
I don't know but they must be some teacher:
"When someone attacks me, I always attack back...except 100x more. This has nothing to do with a tirade but rather, a way of life!"
5:56 AM - 11 Nov 2012 Trump twitter
1
Why would Iran (or any other nation) negotiate with the Trump administration?
Has he stuck to the treaties we've already signed? No. Did he rubber stamp a new NAFTA with Canada and Mexico and then threaten tariffs on Mexico if they didn't stop immigration (effectively reneging on the deal he made)....Yes!
Negotiating with Trump is a waste of time, and Iran can see this.
Also, why should we suddenly believe anything this administration states (about the location of the drone, for example)? Trump and his people have lied every day that they've been in power. They had 'alternative facts' about something as inconsequential as the paltry size of his inauguration crowd.
I will not trust anything Trump and his minions claim as truth. I will need third-party confirmation of these events and I'm sure the international community has the same skepticism when it comes to taking the word of a chronic liar too.
16
The Soviet Union shot down a U-2 spy plane. After Ike announced it was 'an off-course weather plane' and requested return of the pilot's body, Khrushchev announced that they had captured the CIA pilot alive, and that he had confessed. The USA did not go to war.
In 1962, at the height of the Cuban missile price crisis, A Soviet air crew was forced to shoot down another U-2, The Air Force pilot was killed. Again, the USA did not go to war. JFK's decision in that case may have prevented World War III.
Iranian artillery could effectively close the 35 mile wide Strait of Hormuz from pre preexisting positions. 20% of the world's oil flows through there. Are you ready to pay $5 or $6 a gallon for gasoline? Or maybe $10? The world can not afford this war, and neither can we.
10
This incident is supposed to inspire confidence in our Commander in Chief?
We Americans vainly try to divine the rationality behind Trump’s ignorant and impulsive lurching with regard to Iran. The rest of the world watches in horror as we inch towards another catastrophic war.
8
He made the right call, God love'im...
2
First positive article I have read In the New York Times about President Trump. I’ve grown so very weary with your continual pounding negative commentary on the president. By going overboard you have lost so much credibility. The New York Times gained a small amount of credibility by running a positive article. I don’t like him either, but you go nowhere by pounding your opponent to death.
3
The Editorial Board says this, but the newspaper is helping Trump make the case for another war for oil.
1
DUMP
EMPEROR
TRUMP
"We can't be an EMPIRE"
3
Tweeting is an awful way to run a country.
Such a thoroughly undignified and juvenile Presidency.
Sorry world - we’ll do much better next time.
36
@Socrates,
If we get a chance "next time", that is, Socrates. I don't think we'll have an election in 2020. Trump will declare martial law. He is going to leave the White House at a time of his choosing, and not a minute earlier.
2
@Socrates
I hope these terse posts of yours are not trending; the usual much longer ones are also always on point and never boring.
I don't think anyone can promise us foreigners that Trump won't be repeated until a clear path emerges to codify the ethical/moral/political "rules" that he has desecrated.
(By the way, are you a descendant relative of this Greek philosopher I've read about? Kidding.)
@Kyle Reese
"He is going to leave the White House at a time of his choosing, and not a minute earlier."
In that case I expect the Secret Service to take him out.
2
I think it is very important that Tucker Carlson remain a consultant on Middle Eastern affairs and retaliatory military strikes by the White House.
Fox News soothes the numb and saves the world.
Jared Kushner meh— we got the Tucker.
6
Iran gave up nuclear weapons (with vigorous verification) to get relief from sanctions. Trump spat on that deal (becasue Obama negotiated it), and unilaterally imposed sanctions that are even more strenuous.
This after Trump "fell in love" with an adversary who has not deviated from their course of nuclear armament--and has been rewarded, not punished, for that position--and unlike Iran, has attacked the US (see Sony vs N. Korea) and ffatally tortured an innocent US college student.
Now Iran can't develop their economy because of the sanctions after they followed the rules both the US and Iran agreed to -- so are forced into an existential situation.
Iran has a sophisticated, well educated citizenry, and a fairly modern industrial plant. Iran was willing to take upwards of 300,000 or more military casualties in the Iran-Iraq war during the Reagan era. Iran has about 90 million people who cannot survive weaving "Persian" rugs.
If Trump's goal appears to be to destroy the livelihoods of 90 million people, and force them to wander the globe seeking vengence, he is doing exactly what he should be doing. Why any American should be working to accomplish this goal is something of a mystery to me. Neither Trump, nor the Saudis, nor the Israelies are thinking this through.
6
With all our technology we don't know if the drone was or was not in Iranian airspace? Or were administration officials with holding information yet again?
12
Nancy Pelosi and most members of Congress since WWll talk big and carry a little stick. If memory serves me, although the US has been involved in about 20 military confrontations from the Korean War to Vietnam to Iraq to Syria, not once has the Congress actually declared war pursuant to its "inherent" constitutional authority. Basically, Congresses controlled by both parties have dodged war declarations in favor of silence or delegating the war powers to the presidency. Then you get a Trump and the whole country is stuck with his egomaniacal, pathological, cruel, incomprehensible and unpredictable personality. Congress, it is probably too late to turn this situation around with Trump. But you should start now. Turning this battleship around that started with Truman in Korea will not be easy.
2
"Given a clearly flawed decision-making process, President Trump was right to buy himself time on Iran."
Translation:
We, war hawks, have not been able to get Trump to go to war with Iran. He is not predictable, so we can't find where to pull his strings. Just give us some time, we think we will have him playing our puppet.
There is a Persian saying, "A blind man who sees is better than a sighted man who is blind."
If one is not blinded by hatred to Trump, it is easy to see what is happening here.
1
@Bhaskar. Trump hired the war hawks. If he doesn’t want to go to war, he should replace them, and he shouldn’t have exited the Iran nuclear deal in the first place, which makes the prospect of war UCB more likely.
8
@NA
It's an effective leadership style to hire critics, it helps understand the other side of an issue before making a decision. In this case, though his war hawks said one thing, he decided to do something different.
"If Trump didn't pull out of the Iran deal, this wouldn't have happened."
Yeah right. That's like, "If we hadn't stopped paying the blackmailer, he wouldn't keep blackmailing us."
1
@Bhaskar The people with real experience in military matters--Mattis and McMaster--were marginalized and then pushed out. Trump didn't replace them with "critics." He replaced them with ideologues who know a puppet when they see one. Eventually, they'll know the right strings to pull.
Meantime, call us when "maximum pressure" works against Iran (and North Korea).
4
Iran has attacked and damaged six oil tankers and destroyed a US drone. If there is to be no retaliation, what deters Iran from attacking more oil tankers and US military aircraft ?
1
@Newfie
"what deters Iran from attacking more oil tankers and US military aircraft"
returning to the nuclear deal and continued diplomacy on the path to restoring the good relations we had before we overthrew Iran's democratically elected government in the 1950s and installed the brutal regime of the Shah
2
I do not believe for an instant that Trump cares about killing 150 Iranians. The only thing he ever cares about is himself.
What Trump cares about is losing the 2020 election, and he finally realized that if he attacked Iran, the situation would likely escalate into a major conflict affecting the flow of oil and the global economy. And then, he'd lose his bid for reelection.
Trump chose John Bolton, a major architect of the Iraq War, as his National Security Advisor. That war was justified by Bolton and Cheney using false intelligence. By now nearly everyone agrees that the Iraq invasion was a mistake not only because of the false intelligence, but also because it was a major strategic blunder that caused unimaginable casualties. But not John Bolton. He still thinks the US invasion of Iraq was a good idea.
John Bolton will take maximum advantage of this uninformed, conspiracy-theory-loving president in order to drag the US into yet another war in the Middle East. The chaos in this incompetent White House makes Bolton's task even easier. He came within 10 minutes of succeeding with his diabolical plans yesterday!
Until this administration is removed from office, the US and the world remain in grave danger. Vote Trump out of office in 2020 like your life depends on it, because it just might.
7
I thought that "You are fired" were the President's favorite solution to all problems: why doesn't he try it on John Bolton and Mike Pompeo. I am sure that would considerably improve the President's position in the polls.
2
Yes, it is welcome news that Trump called off airstrikes against Iran.
Now, if only he could get rid of Bolton and other hawks who got us into the Iraq war and now wants to get us into a war with Iran, that'd be another welcome step.
Of course, much of this could have been avoided if Trump didn't unilaterally withdraw from the nuclear deal that Obama administration and other countries negotiated with Iran. I guess that is much too much to expect from a man who revels in chaos.
2
The news cycle on this today is terribly disturbing...
it should not even be a story-
nothing more than a way to for this POTUS
to be the 'hero'.
4
He was right? Please stop trying to calm this man down by using praise.
Trump’s dysfunctional chaotic behavior is getting less tolerable, like having an unruly child around. Only a child is not in charge of the country....we hope.
Very sad state of affairs in the US. Hard to imagine has gone on living with this man, but then three women have taken their turns. His parenting must have been something else. No wonder he’s cheering on the kiddos now and pretending he’s got everything under control. Just another show.
4
Patience? Oh please. One of the "adults in the room" must've told Trump the truth that even his base wouldn't support another Middle Eastern war.
6
So the 'president' gets to look tough as he authorizes an attack and 'responsible' as he calls off the attack at the last moment. No war as yet, but definitely more theater and headlines for the fake president coming as it does on the eve of democrat debates Distraction, just distraction.
6
Trump blows up the [admidtedly imperfect] Iran deal, brings the US and Iran to the brink of war, and now he wants to talk. I have no doubt, that if he were to sit down over negotiations with Iran, a highly unlikely event, he'd leave the table with a better deal than what the Obama administration reached. This behavior, by the way, is the pattern of the arsonist claiming to put out the fire that he's started that is now painfully familiar.
As part of his "America First" mantra, Trump claims to refuse to fight wars on behalf of other countries, but clearly, he's been pushed into this situation by Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Israel who view Iran as an existential threat. But let us be clear, the decision to call off the attack was driven by expectations that his re-election prospects will suffer should he bring the nation into another war in the middle east.
Sure, we should draw a sense of relief that he called off the attack. But The world won't be out of danger until another president occupies the oval office in January 2021.
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Every action, or inaction, of the Fake President up until Election Day, 2020, must be viewed through that determinative lens. His late calling off the strikes against Iran, I believe, was the result of his earlier being informed by briefers, and finally realizing, that in doing so it could potentially retaliate by preventing oil tankers from using the vital Straight of Hormuz, which as you note could lead to a worldwide economic crisis. This catastrophic outcome resulting from his own action would sink his electoral hopes. Going forward, such a continuing, real threat by Iran is a powerful arrow in its quiver and, expectedly, one it will use to its great advantage to manipulate Trump and hold him at bay.
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As with most things Trump he milks everything for what it's worth in his reality show presidency. Give credit where credit is due, thankfully as cooler heads prevailed.
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I know most readers of the Times will disagree in the fact that Bush Jr or Hillary would have went through with this strike as they are neocon war mongers. How Trump has neocon war mongers on his team such as Bolton and Pompeo is surprising but being the adult in the Room he was able to advert a potential disaster. He needs to keep the sanctions up and should advise our allies that chose to deal with Iran that they will be cut off.
Bush Jr started the trouble in the middle east and Obama and HRC continued with the nation building, regime change and interference in an area we have no business being in. Remember Obama's disaster in the Arab spring in Libya and Egypt. Trump promised to stop the endless wars and for the first 2.5 years of his term we have been at peace. I think the world knows that if they attack us we will respond accordingly. This attack of the drone did not deserve the response that was ordered and Trump put a stop to it.
Liberals should listen to people such as Dr. Michael Savage on the radio or Tucker Carlson on Fox as they share the view that we should not be starting wars. In fact while both conservative they are anti war and get discouraged with John Bolton and neocons influencing Trump.
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@Mike,
Maybe you didn’t notice that this entire crisis has been caused by trump when, for no valid reason, he unilaterally reneged on the Iranian nuclear deal, imposed economic sanctions and painted them into an untenable corner. What else would you expect them to do?
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@Mike
Listening to Tucker Carlson, and even Sean Hannity, which I continue to do, is painful. They rarely discuss actual facts, and are no more than shills for Trump.
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@Mike
If not starting wars is the goal, why leave an agreement that worked towards that end? Why did trump declare economic war on Iran, try to starve it and not expect push back?
If the attack trump ordered was unwarranted, why did he order it in the first place?
trump is clueless and is in over his head in a crisis that he created.
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Maybe a few of Trump’s supporters might see that leadership is not about shouting and “entertaining” at rally venues but rather having the maturity and thoughtful planning to deal with REAL crises.
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God help us, as this is complicated and needs careful deliberative study. I wish we could trust our president or anyone left at the White House or in the State Department. What we should be doing is renegotiating the 2015 treaty with the original countries to return to some stability and normalcy for Iran and the world. Please those in leadership in other countries don't leave us adrift here. Please Congress don't leave us adrift here. Please God don't leave us adrift here. We need help and we need it now. Don't let the crazy guy drive us over the cliff into WWIII.
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Why does it appear the recent Trump act to order a military strike (no planes were in the air, he claims) and then cancel it was a pre-planned strategy to make Trump seem thoughtful and compassionate?
Doug Giebel, Big Sandy, Montana
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@Doug Giebel
Exactly! Trump thoughtful and restrained!? It would be a first.
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@Doug Giebel
Why? Because it is obvious.
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"It was welcome news to see President Trump announce on Twitter that he called off airstrikes against Iran this week when presented with an estimated human cost."
If that is actually true. I'm certainly not taking Trump's word for it (or for anything else).
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@lydgate
"It was welcome news to see President Trump announce on Twitter that he called off airstrikes against Iran this week when presented with an estimated human cost."
It is not true--your skepticism is well founded.
As other commentors have noted, casualty estimates are available very early in the decision process, well before Trump approved the attack.
Trump changed his mind after authoizing the strike, and searched for a convenient excuse that his base might believe. Trump's medical policies kill at least 150 US citizens each week because they can't afford or get medical care (or they are non-white women), so wiping out a few Iranian soldiers was certainly never anything Trump worried about.
Did somebody suggest that such a strike would likely lead to an escallation? Did Putin call and tell Trump where he could put his Moscow tower if he went ahead with this strike--or what financial info he would disclose? We do not know. All we do know is that the excuse given for halting the strike at the last moment was certainly an lie, not a reason.
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@Mark Johnson,
I suggest that someone may have told him which way the stock market may turn if he proceeded with the attack. With the markets closed for the weekend, the world is safe until Monday at least.
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The Times is doing its job in reporting the facts - or non-facts - of this latest debacle of sorts. I fortunately am in a position where I need not worry about my opinion which is indeed bias...against Trump. It is written that, "Casualty estimates are routinely given to commanders and their civilian bosses early in the process..." I would argue that Trump knew this as soon as the discussion began re a strike. I would also argue that neither patience nor wisdom were the motivating forces to cancel and halt retaliation. Patience and wisdom are anathema to Mr. Trump. This man deserves no credit. Iran, on the other hand, has run out of options. What have they gotten from Mr. Trump other than threats and more sanctions? There is no denying that Iran must be watched closely. But this administration has it backed into a corner. That is not a good place to be in for these two adversaries.
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Well, of course, declining to strike Iran was the right course.
The tweeted details do seem embellished for drama - the last minute change of plans, the prospect of 150 deaths, and the unspoken certainty that such a move would have been retaliated. Maybe the entire episode was concocted theatrics. But this is clear: to prevent catastrophic missteps on either nation’s part, the Trump team will have to cool their inflammatory rhetoric and they will have to pick up the dialogue with Iran that got cut off.
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@NM -- esteemed daughter,
the "cocked and loaded" remarks were strictly for his base but such irresponsible rhetoric is exactly why wars start. For the remaining 16 months everything the president says and does will have as the focus November 3, 2020...tariffs, immigration, federal judgeships, the Mueller report. He would be better advised to keep Iran off his overloaded plate.
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Given Trump's "clearly flawed decision-making process...."
The Times nails it!
This is our national and international problem right there. Once again, we see the pattern with Mr. Trump's decision-making style, which is totally unsuited to a top public policy and service leadership position--or to the legitimate and effective functioning of any large scale organization or business:
Trump seeks little factual information prior to making a decision, nor does he seek a diversity of views and discussion of what could possibly go wrong with various options for any given decision.
Essentially, Trump takes a "groupthink" approach whereby decisions are made ahead of time--conclusion first, evidence later to fit the foregone conclusion. Although meetings of advisors may be held, the definition of the situation for the group is the leader & close advisors already have made a decision, and he/she does not want to hear any criticisms. The purpose of the group meeting is to agree to what has already been decided. What could possibly go wrong?
3. Trump also does not anticipate nor even care about the consequences of his decisions, and he often seems surprised when his decisions are criticized and damage is done (which he never takes responsibility for but only blames others). When this happens, Trump employs just about every defense mechanism in the book to protect his fragile ego.
Because of Trump's decision-making style, he is a disaster waiting to happen--as he so often proves
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My alternate explanation is that Trump was following his instinct that this would give the best media coverage, as always, keeping him in the headlines. Trump has never really cared about "150 people dying ", especially foreigners.
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@PB - we are waiting no longer nor were ever actually waiting; 45 was a disaster from day -300 (the day he came down the Trump Tower NYC escalator).
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He is a happening disaster, a whirlwind of narcissistic idiocy destroying education, the environment, global alliances, healthcare, the justice system, and the pursuit of happiness for all but the uber-riche. I weep for my grandchildren who will inherit his carnage.
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