June 21, 2019
A data search - Intuition on the age of Chaos theory and electronic information pdf
University of Davis discourse gives weighted tactics and strategy in warfare:
The Strategy and Tactics of Information Warfare
nob.cs.ucdavis.edu/bishop/papers/2003-csp/csp.pdf
“Destruction requires disabling a system in such a way that it cannot be recovered. It must be rebuilt or recreated. Destruction may occur in either the virtual realm or the physical one, but the key point is that something in the virtual realm triggers the destruction. Gausewitz championed the principle of destruction as the most expedient way to achieve one's political objectives, as the shortest and surest way to defeat the enemy and impose one's will. Destruction has typically required the maximum concentration of physical force at the decisive point to irreparably damage the adversary's armed forces, or 'centre of gravity'. Destruction is the most decisive method for achieving one's political objectives, the most costly if it succeeds and the most damaging if it fails. Though Gausewitz's 'principle of destruction' is usually equated with physical destruction, Handel notes that 'by destruction, Clausewitz does not necessarily mean physical eradication or devastation of the enemy; he is also referring to destruction of the enemy's will to go on fighting'. 17 Destruction, in other words, encompasses both the physical and moral destruction of the enemy's force:;”
JJA Vietnam Veteran
2
The Obama/Kerry approach of total surrender and giving the crazy mullahs everything they want has clearly failed. Time for something new
1
There must be a thorough investigation of business dealings between Iran and Biden’s son
1
Not to take anything away from the exemplary work performed by the NYT's headline writers, but could they settle for "Congress'..." next time instead of the awkward "Congress's..." At least it wasn't "Congress'es..." On the other hand, the only thing that Congress is likely to call for is Impeachment. It has given up long ago of actually displaying any fidelity to the mandate given to it by the Constitution. But, the pay and perks are pretty good, and the retirement plan is Cadillac Gold. So, they can use the President as a scapegoat whenever the US steps in the sewer sludge.
There is ZERO justification for an insane second proxy “regime-change” war for Israel, this time in Iran. Are the American people now such a lazy nation of dolts that they will actually back a much more idiotic and disastrous debacle for Israel in Iran than even our last total folly for Israel was in Iraq? Didn’t all those body bags, blown-off faces, and “wounded warriors” entirely caused by neoconservatives working for Israel under W teach the American booboisie anything? The people of Hong Kong took to the streets and forced China to back down. Are Americans now such clueless sheep that they will sign on for more body bags for Israel without putting up as big a fight for what’s right as the Hong Kongers did?
3
Tax cuts for millionaires?.....check
Deregulation for millionaires?.......check
Adding a few trillion to the debt?.....check
Ignoring healthcare, education, the environment, public works, and mass murders with guns?...check
Chickenhawk bravado?.....check
Starting an unnecessary war in the Middle East that will kill a few thousand Americans?....in progress
Why do we keep electing these Republicans over and over?
When will we ever learn?
9
please let cooler heads prevail.
1
Our paper apologised for supporting the invasion of Iraq on the pretext that they had WMD manufactured from yellowcake illegally imported from another African country. This time our journalists are more cautious. But caution means it has its doubts about the justification of a war with Iran. We must be bolder. An attack on Iran would be catastrophic and our paper should say so. The US leaders must dismount from their high horses and speak to China, Russia etc. as equal partners in solving our planet`s grave problems.
5
The Times, with EVERY opinion, borders on disloyalty to the USA and the promotion of foreign powers.
2
@ej Cullen: Trump is a foreign power to me.
6
When we think about the military of the future and the increasing rate of short-of-war encounters, this episode illustrates the value of having a mix of manned and unmanned, and stealthy and overt, platforms.
If future recon flights in this area are done by manned aircraft, Iran probably would not shoot any of them down (and manned planes would be equipped to defeat a single incoming missile anyway). This might be a way to force Iran to cease such attacks without firing a shot or retreating.
Could such a policy have been implemented before the drone was shot down? Maybe - the nonlethal tanker attacks were a clue this shoot down was likely - but that opportunity has passed.
We would have to respond militarily if a manned plane was shot at, but not too many people will rally to avenge the loss of a robot. Everyone knows this and will act accordingly. Sometimes "keeping the opponent guessing" is the worst thing to do.
Warhawks? More like chickenhawks.
6
Attacking Iran is an idiot’s call. We cannot include Congress here until their group consciousness rises to more than ‘special needs’ level.
5
Do we really need to go over this every single time this comes up? No, NY Times..the President has the authority to call for limited action for 30 days.
Kinda scary that he now failing NY Times employs people who doesn't know this.
2
@lakawak: The presidency may have discretion, but Trump does not.
1
In other words, when a president we like bombs a foreign nation (Libya), its all good. When Trump does it, Congress must have a say
@Jake: Many Americans thought Khadafi had gone unpunished for the Pan Am Lockerbie bombing. Reagan ordered a bombing of his compound that killed his daughter. What do you think about that?
2
How did we get to this stage? One of the biggest blunders is to withdraw from the 2015 Iran Deal. An agreement which the US was able to bring to the table together with China, Russia and the EU. All along, and to the time the US decided to withdraw, all evidence was in support of Iran abiding by the Agreement.
The 2015 Deal may not have been perfect. If there was any improvement needed, there was all the opportunity to do that. The Agreement would go on for about 15 years, and a periodical evaluation would have made it possible for the needed corrections. That was not allowed to happen. Because, we, the US withdrew from the Deal.
Not only have we withdrawn from the Agreement, we have also re-instated sanctions on Iran.
On a complete analysis, we can only find that this is not America's war. There are certain powers in the MIddle East, who want to drag us into a war, to solve their problems. Both Saudi Arabia and Israel, from the outset, were not in agreement with the 2015 Iran Nuclear Deal. These two parties pushed us to withdraw from the Agreement, and now they want the US to go further. Take military action against Iran. Both Saudi Arabia and Israel look at Iran as their enemy. So, it is clear how the US is in the picture.
As today's Opinion is pointing out, if there was minimal diplomacy, there was no diplomacy at all. While that is always the possibility, it is unclear whether we are making any attempts to achieve that. WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
11
The time is well past due for the NY Times to finally renounce its own destructive, complacent-to-supportive policy viz a viz war.
No more endless support of it.
No more euphemisms about an innocent United States being unwittingly "pulled" into war.
No more unquestioning stenography of Pentagon and intelligence officials' all-too-often false and self-serving claims that serve as a temporary basis of war -- only to be debunked well after tragedy has ensued.
No more mea culpas (lite) that you were snowed into beating the drums for another illegal military adventure the public never supported.
I'm tired of it. I know I'm not the only reader who feels this way. It reminds me of Groundhog's Day, waking up to the SAME THING again and again. But with zero humor and endless, senseless death.
7
Make no mistake about it: Trump wants a war with Iran so he can show how brave and powerful he is (with other people's blood).
6
We certainly do need "cooler heads," but just where are they? In Congress, among the Democrats running for president, Europe? No one has stepped forward with one substantive, statesmen- (or woman-) like idea for de-escalating the catastrophic folly that the foreign policy ineptitude of Donald Trump and his Tweedledee and Tweedledum (or is -dumb?) neocon advisers who have brought us to the very brink of a ruinous major war engulfing the entire Middle East and crippling its oil pipeline and with it the world's economy. It was easy to pull out of the Iran nuclear accord and to re-impose harsh sanctions than to figure what the "exit strategy" or policy goal was. We've crippled Iran's economy, but now what? We came within 10 minutes of igniting a war. What's next? To expect Congress, especially enabler-in-chief, Mitch McConnell to do anything is laughable. No "profile in courage" there or anywhere else. And, that is the problem for the nation and the world--political paralysis peering into the abyss of real Trump chaos.
8
The dial on the doomsday clock must be spinning like crazy right now...
4
I can really sympathize with Iran. The U.S. was just starting to recover from the 1979 hostage crisis with the 2015 nuclear deal when Dear Leader got into the WH and threw out everything Obama. We have no credibility now and literally have them surrounded by our military forces. Iran must be as suspicious as I am about those secret meetings between Kushner and MBS. What price did the U.S. agree to pay for whatever financial compensation MBS granted to Kushner. To think that their fate might be in the hands of a failed businessman/TV reality star/knucklehead is the stuff of science fiction. Forget "thoughts and prayers"; Beam me up!
51
Let's take a look at the timing here. By the time of the next election, the US will be engaged in a war with Iran and the going wisdom will be "let's not change horses in mid-stream." Thus Trump will be elected again in order to maintain "continuity." A more cynical political ploy can hardly be imagined.
7
Not just cooler—also smarter.
3
It's almost as if none of the commenters here actually read the paper. You'd think President Trump get a little credit in deciding that taking out 150 lives isn't quite proportional to destroying an unmanned drone.
But no.
I guess when you've written an editorial you go with it. Even when the facts don't quite match up.
2
I share the outrage, recognize the terror of our European allies. Trump is unfit for the office of the President of the United States. Proven once again. What will be required to startle Congress into meeting their Constitutional obligations?
7
So much for Trump being the guy who was going to keep us out of any more wars.
I mean, I suppose he may well decide that that's more important for him - and for his re-election, which will not be well-served by a long, drawn-out war with Iran - but he's got plenty of chickenhawks around him who are pushing him hard.
Frankly, I'd be more inclined to listen to folks like Bolton and Graham if they said they'd be willing to join the first wave. Hell, I'd chip in for the gear then.
8
It's important to realize that Pompeo and Bolton are running the show, not Trump. The President is, as always, mostly distracted and only occasionally focused on Iran. It's a perfect set-up for the Neocons, allowing them to move all the chess pieces to their advantage, making the odds of a conflict ever greater.
Oddly enough, this is arguably the biggest challenge of Trump's presidency. To prevent his hand picked subordinates from pushing him into another American war in the Middle East that neither Congress, the American people, nor perhaps even Trump himself, wants. It will be a true test of his leadership, whether this famous television boss can control his subordinates in a real life-and-death situation.
I, for one, will breathe easier if I hear the famous line "You're fired!" uttered against John Bolton and Mike Pompeo.
48
When you say that this situation in the US / Iran relationship will be a test of Trump’s leadership, it only deepens my despair.
16
If the Ed Board were sincere about avoiding war it would be giving fair coverage to Rep. Tulsi Gabbard’s campaign, as she is unique amongst the Democratic hopefuls as both a “war on terror” veteran (and still a member of our National Guard) and - as a result of her real-world experience - a skeptic of our reckless, costly and failed regime change-based foreign policy.
Post-election analysis in 2016 showed that Trump’s margins of victory in crucial heartland states like MI, WI and PA were focused in counties that had suffered the most casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nominating another hawk in the Clinton-Biden “same-old-same-old” mold will guarantee another 4 years for The Donald.
2
The support for this war is very thin outside the Beltway. Trump and Congress may be walking into a political buzz saw.
62
@Mandrake -- The closest analog is to when public opinion and the British House of Commons took the steam out of the intent in DC during the Obama Admin to attack Syria. I hope it is, anyway.
5
Would some good journalists please write a piece reminding the American people of the very long affair between the Republican Establishment (especially the Bush family) and Saudi Arabia. It is a very long and intimate affair involving both big money and political power as well as arms deals and (most likely) unknown commitments of military support.
Remember well that all the 9-11 terrorists were well connected Saudis. Remember well that when Bush Jr.closed all US airspace the only plane flying across our nation was carrying members of the Saudi royal family out of the USA to Saudi Arabia.
Remember well that the Prince who gave Trump a golden sword and is, most likely, involved in major financial deals with the Trumps and Kushners , is also implicated in the brutal murder and the dismemberment of the body of a journalist residing in the United States.
As a Vietnam Vet I would urge anyone to refuse to fight a war that is not in the interest of this country especially given our current political situation.
155
@Fr. Bill Thank you for your "on target" comments. I hope US citizens are tuned-in.
24
@JLB Yes, indeed, thank you, Fr. Bill. It's the Saudis (and Israel's Netanyahu) who want us in an endless war against Iran.
17
We appear to be a war loving nation of perpetrators. This has become the Republicans favorite money laundering modality - war of choice to divert tax dollars through the military industrial complex and ultimately back into the accounts of people like dreadful Dick Cheney, et al.
There are the trump factors as well: his insatiable ego demands (real presidents fight wars?) and the value of diversion that warfare affords. He can carry on in the quiet of the night with dismembering the institutions of government.
This is another disaster in the making
2
@JJ. What are you even talking about? Trump has always said he doesn’t want war. I guess you forgot the Dems got us into Viet Nam.
1
@JJ Ya, let's go to war, but not me or my family!
No strategy and no mettle. Reliably growing more people who hate the US, and for good reason - over and over. Congress is not doing its job, Trump is destabilizing everything he touches and there is no administration guardrail since everyone is either a Trump flunky, a neocon hold-over or an "acting" secretary. And playing chicken with a society that's been around for millennia is beyond ignominy. If anything his last minute "restraint" is also another sign of bloviating weakness. Sad and dangerous.
2
"Cooler heads" in the Trump Administration? Are you kidding? There are none!
3
Foreign ... shoals?
The calculus is straightforward; either Iran gets sanctions relief or there will be war. The sanctions are destroying Iran more effectively than military action and before the destruction is complete and while Iran still has a military to be reckoned with might as well go down fighting and maybe bloody a couple of noses along the way.
13
The threat of war here seems very low. The US is content turning the economic screws on Iran until it disavows nukes and stops terrorizing US interests.
I see zero desire, willingness, or need for the US to send ground troops into Iran. All we’re really faced with is measured responses each time Iran downs one of our planes, etc.
Frankly, Iran lashing out his way tells me our sanctions are working.
4
The fundamental problem is that Congress has bailed on its most Constitutionally sacred responsibility, going on record and declaring war, for many decades. Not Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq, nor a number of lesser military engagements elicited a Declaration of War from Congress, even as that body funded those wars.
The ultimate fault for this shameful state of affairs, though, is that of the American people which has not just tolerated but encouraged its elected representatives to more and more turn over power to a succession of Presidents and the Executive Branch in general.
6
Trump says the drone was "operating in international waters" - a comment he has repeated on multiple occasions over the past days. Hmmm, if that were true, it was already down! :) Trump's command of the English language is so poor that he fails to understand the difference between "waters" and "airspace". So, we should not be surprised that he did not consider or ask about potential casualties before ordering the strike. Fortunately, he called off the attack as he really doesn't want to be responsible for getting the US involved in another war in the Middle East. So his bluster and goading of Iran is not so much "wage the dog" as it is "wag the puppy"! I understand that Putin came out against American military action against Iran. One wonders if that played in to Trump's decision to cancel the strike. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he was concerned with loss of Iranian lives, but that is so hard to do given his track record. At least he has kept his attack dogs Pompeo and Bolton on leash for now. In order to prevent a true tragedy, Congress needs to unify and regain their control over funding of wars. While some Congressional Republicans have shown some backbone, not enough have to date. They need to pass veto-proof legislation restricting Trump's war powers NOW. They can always revert to form and fund reasonable arms spending for allies afterwards. OK Mitch, what are you waiting for?
3
Trump's main focus as always is his image and his family's finances. Trump has said Saudi royalty buy a lot of his condos and stay at his hotels to curry favor. Kushner is in the White House to cash in and so he went where the money was and the royals can hand cash easily and he got it along with a top security clearance which is quite a marketable asset along with the KIng's ear. How much money can the Trump/Kushner families milk out his presidency there may be no limit as that is what the families live for power to get more money.
5
This is, of course, the nightmare scenario I feared after the election of Trumpf. This man is solely and uniquely the least qualified person in the United States to make any decision at all when human lives are at stake.
This mental, moral and ethical deficiency , displayed time and again by our ::cough:: commander in chief, is yet another topic the "the base" of voters failed to recognize or bother to care about on election day in 2016.
It appears most Trumpf voters believed he was a "successful businessman" who would run the executive branch like a CEO. They truly believed he was an outsider who would clean up the swamp. They bought into the obviously impossible campaign promises; such as bringing the coal industry back to its former glory and auto jobs back to their 1950s era levels.
This is what you get when you don't bother to investigate who you are voting for in any election. The facts were there for the taking. A man who has spent a lifetime of suing his own clients and clogging up the courts with an unending stream of legal challenges in order to bail out on any debts he and his family incurred.
Why did the base think this would change? What is happening right now? The same thing, sue everybody; deny everything; obstruct justice and tell lies so often that he gets away with saying nothing.
The chickens always come home to roost.
The women and men of our armed forces deserve much better.
6
Putting a fleet in the middle east makes war easier--that is, create more targets. This is a sham to create war and another distraction. This one will be major with the loss of life all around. Absolutely horrible and totally political.
3
The WORLD has been closely watching the U.S.A. since Trump took office. Our allies now know that we cannot be trusted. Why: because our country entered into various long, negotiated agreements and Trump broke them at the snap of a finger. He wakes up one day, tweets and goes into a tirade about one thing or another! It's an unstable situation. Little by little our allies will fade away, making alliances with other countries and making sure they have far less dependency on our country. It will take a very long time, if ever to repair the hurt that has been done in such a short time.
5
"It’s now President Trump who faces a crisis in credibility."
President Trump IS a Crisis in Credibility. But you knew that.
Imagine the credulity or gullibility NYT Editorial Board display as they attempt to persuade the Yellow Bellow on this or any other issue.
You may be right, but you're not Far Warhawk Right, so matter little to this administration, might perhaps more effectively have addressed this appeal directly to puppet-master Mitch McConnell.
3
Let`s take a breath from this incident and recall that it is the USA that is the world`s most aggressive nation. As far as the Near East is concerned this part of the continuous push by the Israel Lobby to do another Iraq for their benefit.
PROPORTIONAL US response ? What about Iran Air Flight 655 !
Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed, and all 290 people on board , men , women and children were killed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Let`s hear the stupid chant , U-S-A , U-S-A .
4
“Remember the Maine!”, Gulf of Tonkin, Weapons of Mass Destruction, etc., etc. And now Iran.
How stupid does this administration think we are?
4
What is the proof of Iranian military involvement in Yemen actually? Just because Saudi Arabia says so doesn't make it real, but it is repeated over and over in US newspapers. Iran has in fact proposed a 4 point peace plan to the UN to end the war in Yemen. How about discussing that?
https://nena-news.it/is-iran-really-to-blame-for-yemen-conflict/
3
Voting away one authorization, which won't happen, would not make any difference. There are many ways for Trump to declare an emergency, or even just attack with no justification at all. There is virtually nothing Trump could do, short of criticizing Sean Hannity, that would allow him to be successfully impeached.
2
It is profoundly difficult to restore good faith in the wake of conduct like Trump's. The chances of success fade with every passing day.
6
Even after Trump is long gone, the possibility of another such person could be elected in the future will certainly give other countries pause in their future dealings with the US.
Already the Europeans, having seen the US abuse and weaponize its privileged position of holding the global reserve currency, are actively working to create an alternative reserve currency.
Eventually, they will succeed, and each day Trump remains in office, their motivation to develop an alternative to the dollar is deepened.
1
It is wrong that US engagement with Iran has always seemed to involve violence and force rather than wisdom and long-range consideration. In 1953, along with the United Kingdom, we imposed the rule of the shah (our own marionette?) over a democratically elected president in anticipation of Iran's threat to nationalize its oil industry; it seems to have been our first foray into regime change during peacetime. Why anyone in the president's sphere would consider this course, or even another violent attack, as a way of solving our disputes is baffling to me.
2
@Jonathan Biatch
We constantly suffer the scourge of overly aggressive personalities.
Aggressive people tend to push their way to the top just by their nature.
It is pretty obvious that this should be considered a dangerous problem.
1
Bolton has been itching to bomb Iran -- Trump appears ready to cave in. The result will be another costly Middle East war and another generation of Middle East residents who hate the United States.
3
Mr. Trump and his squallid administration of felons,
will launch a war in Iran,
in a heart beat,
if only for the sake or retaining power,
and hiding under the DOJ memo that implies that it would be annoying to indict a sitting president, even if they committed treason with a hostile foreign power.
If 100,000 American servicemen die to protect oil and defend Saudi Arabia's right to jihad, if our bankrupt government spends our tax money like a drunken billionaire, if the national debt goes up 3 trillion, Senator McConnell will not be bothered and
Mr. Trump will not lose any sleep.
9
@Steven of the Rockies
The Bush Administration should have been held responsible and accountable for starting a war based on false pretenses.
When these people feel that they can start a war without scrutiny and for personal gain, we are in serious trouble.
And, that’s where we find ourselves now.
We ARE in serious trouble.
3
When has leaving anything up to Congress worked lately? When will you fight? We won't even defend our borders now.
4
@Lee Holland Defend our borders? We won't? Could that be because the two sides cannot make logical deals led by the POTUS? The answer isn't executive and emergency orders- that makes our POTUS a dictator.
1
Iraq 2.0
When will we ever learn?
2
@Greg Obama/Kerry are Chamberlain 2.0.
When will we ever learn?
We have no worries. Iran and the US are like two guys with a few cocktails in them on Friday night who manage a pushing and shoving match and neither raises a hand to punch. Then there is some verbal posturing as they walk away from each other. “fight over”.
2
Except they’s standing in a foot-deep pool of gas, waving lit matches that they’ve forgotten all about.
Robert, I just suggested that there are no concerns about conflict at this juncture because both sides clearly do not want conflict. I underline CLEARLY here.
1
Well stated, thank you.
"Which is why cooler heads must prevail"
HRC would've bombed Iran by now.
3
Actually, HRC would never have loud-mouthedly blundered her way into this mess in the first place. But if she did get to where a strike became necessary, she certainly wouldn’t skip the briefing, order the strike, call it off after the last minute and then congratulate herself all day.
What kind of leftist is it, one wonders, who thinks a woman with a long, liberal track record is a bigger enemy than Donald Trump?
3
@Ed Watters...Don't forget, when it was expedient to be a 60s Anti-War Activist, she started out her career as a Goldwater Girl. The irony of that is that LBJ turned out to be the biggest hawk of the post WWII Era. True to form though, Hill's true color re-emerged when she had a chance to support regime change after 9/11.
Watters, on the contrary. Clinton would not have backed out of the nuclear agreement with Iran. This tap dance would never have occurred. In fact, with Clinton in the Presidency, none of the tariff garbage would be in place, we would have peace with our allies and Clinton would have a much better, measured response to the NoKs and China.
1
How about simply NO WARS!?
There are times you need to call a spade a spade, and confront instead of sugar coating in the name of diplomacy. Soft pedaling issues like Obama did will turn the US into a patronizer and rest of the world into an even more insecure place (ala ISIS)
3
@Albert Backing out of a deal that our country made makes us untrustworthy: it's plain WRONG! It was a signed, negotiated deal-- it doesn't mean that it was a great deal or even a good deal...BUT it was a deal made in good faith by all sides. Our country will never be trusted again, and our allies (for now) are finding ways to have far less dependence on us, thereby distancing themselves from us. Look at what is happening with Iran-- Europe and other countries are exploring other currencies to trade with Iran. They don't want to deal with the dollar anymore!
6
@Deborah Testa Obama didn’t submit the fake Iranian nuclear surrender to Congress as required by the Constitution. Why he wasn’t arrested and impeached for this blatant and outrageous crime is not clear. Plus, the terrorist Iranian regime did not act in good faith
1
We need people protesting in the streets against Trump and his Saudi-loving war hawks. We need to show the cowardly Republicans that they will be trounced for supporting the ignorant egomaniac Donald Trump.
3
I recall that before the US attacked and invaded Iraq, there were millions of people out in the streets worldwide to protest and and tell Bush “Don’t invade Iraq!” Here in Montreal, nearly a quarter of a million people came out in freezing temperatures in January and February of 2003 against the invasion of Iraq. As I recall, Bush’s response to protests in more than 600 cities around the world in which 10s of millions of ordinary people participated was
“ We don’t make foreign policy with focus groups.”
1
Three disjointed thoughts:
(1) The U.S. Senate actually said NO to Mr. Donald J. Trump? Will wonders never cease?
I am imagining Mitch McConnell at this very moment:
"Mr. President. . .Mr. President. .it GRIEVES me to tell you this--no no! please let me continue--right, sir, right--but what I have to TELL you, sir, is that. . . ."
Wish I'd been there. It would have added YEARS to my life. Five or ten maybe.
(2) Al Qaeda is somehow in cahoots with Iran? Are you kidding me?
Correct me if I'm wrong. Al Qaeda is populated by SUNNI Muslims--is it not? Iran is predominantly SHIITE Muslim--is it not?
The two LOATHE each other. DETEST each other. I have read that not even U.S. Marines in Iraq were so LOATHED and DETESTED--
--as the Shiites.
But they're still "in cahoots" with each other. In bed with each other.
Preposterous! Back to the drawing board, boys!
Ply us with another yarn. This one, gentlemen--
--this one's goin' NOWHERE.
(3) What's the endgame in Iran gonna look like. What does our President want them to DO actually. To mitigate the wrath. Pacify the suspicions.
Grovel before "the Great Satan"? "Mea culpa--mea maxima culpa!" Renounce Islam? Transform themselves into Sweden or Denmark?
I put that question to my wife (this is Norm again). She had no idea.
"Maybe Mr. Trump has no idea either."
And in the meantime--
--here we are--
--edging closer to war--
--and how it'll all end up--
--the Lord only knows.
2
The NYT were she honest would acknowledge and name those here in the US and "elsewhere" who are persistently lobbying and pushing congress, the executive and other policy makers for a war with Iran.
If I know who they are, the NYT surely knows them by name and are even on a first name basis with many of them; I bet some even work right there at the NYT - they certainly are not being shy about it at the other big US news outlet, WAPO.
So why all the skirting around - as though this push is coming from the "air"? As though it's coming from some nebulous "we don't know who it is but it's someone out there? From outer space? The NYT knows very well who is pushing and clamoring for a conflagration with Iran at America's expense... at any expense! And don's say Saudi Arabia because no one in congress or in the American media or think tanks, no American ever supported anything because "Saudi Arabia" supports it. So saying Saudi is fakery right there.
Stop this Wizard of Oz show and name the people and groups pushing for this war. Or stop calling yourselves reliable journalists once and for all.
1
Warhawks?
Chickenhawks!
2
As much as I dislike trump, I am pleased to hear that he decided against retribution with an attack. Once he found out how many people would be killed (about 150), he felt it isn’t worth the loss of life for shooting down an unmanned drone. It’s really the first humane decision he’s made. Now, all he has to do is continue caring enough to fix all the wrong in the detention centers.
1
Since the red line had been violated by a false flag attack by anti Assad jihadists, it was not a true case of Syria violating the red line. Obama was right to do what he did rather than be goaded into a major military strike against Syria. Congress wanted no part in deciding to attack Syria. In this case Trump unilaterally withdrew from a successfully deescalating treaty with Iran. Then without Congressional involvement engaged the US in an economic war against Iran. Trump is given dangerous authority to engage the US in belligerent acts of aggression against a country that has not harmed the US in any way. The USs involvement in the anti Assad proxy war in Syria has moved the country into a dangerous position that could have huge unintended consequences.
3
@c harris: The 1 million or so children packed into the Idlib enclave in Syria have nowhere else to go.
Who’s the absolute last person in the country we should want sabre-rattling, engaging in brinksmanship, making life and death decisions?
Yes, that’s right. The very person who is in fact doing these things.
4
So now Trump trusts and believes his military intelligence. That's a start. But he seems to believe them only when they agree with John Bolton. A coincidence, I'm sure.
But now what? Do nothing? Complain to the U.N.? Threaten Iran, again?
We seem committed to making Iran suffer. But how far do you go to get the results you want and avoid the ones you don't want?
Does John Bolton care about the big picture? Does Trump care about anything except looking good and "winning"?
All these actors seem part of a cosmic accident looking for a place to happen.
What can we do about it? Not much. The show must go on, and it will, but the production is out of our hands. We are merely the audience, by and large, in our new plutocracy.
What can you do about it?
How about doing all you can to help vote every federal elected republican out of office
1
@Dan
Theoretically, you're correct, but I voted straight Democrat last time and Republicans won every seat in my Florida district. Maybe next year.
1
Congress is too busy looking for collusion or tax evasion by Trump. Perhaps they should let him handle the easy things they let go like border security or foreign policy.
1
In the past my first reaction would be to believe my government. The current and last GOP president made me realize that is a very foolish assumption. Trump's chronic lying makes it impossible.
4
Add this: Trump has lied so many times the Congress and the public don't know when he's telling the truth. Every time he opens his mouth it is impossible to believe what he says.
2
The Trumpian festering sore is spreading. The disease called the Trump-Republican Scourge that has befallen this nation is becoming lethal. We need an injection of powerful Democratic Congressional action followed by a massive voter uprise to save countless innocent lives and our democracy.
1
This is horrifying. It's as if the lessons of Iraq were never learned, or were learned by men too cynical and greedy to be allowed in our government.
We had a strong agreement with Iran that was working and everyone who understood even the smallest fraction of international knew was a good deal for all involved. At the time I personally hoped it would lead to normalization of diplomatic relations, as the (relatively) democratic and (relatively) liberal Iranian people seem like more natural regional allies for America's professed values than monarchist, autocratic, Wahhabi Saudi Arabia and the right-wing ethnostate Israel is quickly becoming.
But the fact that one president can tear up years of trench-level diplomatic effort means the next president will have zero credibility when it comes to building alliances or making future deals to de-escalate this inane, manufactured conflict.
5
Iraq War:
Dead: 460,000
Refugees: 2 Million
Cost: $2.4 Trillion
Why would we do this again, unless the Steve Bannons and Putin would use more refugees to continue destabilization of the West? Unless Haliburton needs a few big quarters?
1
“ ... not a sign of restraint so much as evidence of indecision and bumbling ... " (NYTimes, 21June2019) All along, Mr. Trump's presidential efforts have been just a vanity project, plus an effort to promote his "brand" and his "base". After his surprise (apparently even to him) election, he seemed to consider the country as an extension of his personal sandbox, Mar-A-Lago etc. Now faced with truly tough decisions possibly involving thousands of deaths - American, foreign, military, civilian - he should finally realize he was never qualified to be POTUS and never will be.
2
I can't wait to see how the United States reacts when it identifies an Iranian surveillance drone in the Gulf of Mexico regardless, technically, of whether it is in US or international airspace.
Any takers on a guess?
I submit, if Trump, Bolton and the other hawks want to start a war with Iran, they should be at the head of the line leading the charge. Of course, Trump won't because his bone spurs will start acting up. This is just another case of confirming what George McGovern stated during and after the war in Vietnam.
"We have a bunch of old white men in government who are sending young people off to die".
1
If Congress takes on approval for a wider conflict they become complicit and assume responsibility for the on-going fiasco, instead they should consider a motion of censure for the Trump administration and it's policies that have brought matters to this point - that is, Congress should step back and tell the Trump administration to grow up and get real. Trump unilaterally abrogated the existing treaty - dumb. He has no documented, coordinated treaty of any sort to replace the existing treaty - dumb. He did it against the advice of allies and US foreign policy professionals - dumb. He was going to force Iran to yield to whatever he wanted by military and economic actions - who would have ever thought the Iranians might react, certainly not Trump - dumb. And finally the Iranians own the narrative because no one, foreign or domestic, believe anything Trump and his sycophants say because they are known and documented liars on all matters. Republican or Democrat, this is not how you do the nations business. Consideration of any wider conflict with the Iranians would start where we are today and look past the administrations lack of planning, coordination and egregiously poor judgments that got us to this point - those faults should not be ignored, they bear critically on how well the Trump administration will execute any wider conflict. Censure as a wake up call is appropriate.
I m glad he did called it off. Very prudent.
We don’t need another major conflict.
2
Oh, who cares. Really. The more things go around domestically and internationally, the more they seem the same. The elites continue to wage wars of political destabilization, here and abroad. The generals into it up to their necks. The politicians and generals are corrupt at the core, corrosive individuals who've lost any sense of moral life, raising children, who, like Trump himself, lie, steal with impunity, and refuse to own their behavior. The truth, the real truth, is that America has never been anything more than a cruelly structured opportunity for ambition and theft. The country is full of rotten people, who keep busy congratulating themselves. The continuing mass shootings have all been predictable outcomes of a fraudulent society.
2
The truth, the real truth, is that cheap cynicism isn’t cynicism at all.
Status of many wars: Korea- influx unknown, Afghanistan-influx unknown, Yemen- secret no talk both houses congress voted stop war "no more wars" Trump vetoed bill, State Dept- Bolton regime change war, Republicans whatever Trump wants, Iran- Get Revolutionary Guard out nuclear treaty and trade in. Trump- best round of golf ever Obama never could beat me, American Public completely & totally confused, Putin- big laugh.
2
Right. Because the last time the US Congress declared war, in accordance with the Constitution, was 1942.
2
The Japanese owner of one of the oil tankers says the ship was not damaged by a mine, but by a projectile, and that he does not think it was Iran.
Trump tore up an international agreement made by us, our allies, and Iran that curtailed nuclear proliferation, enabled monitoring, expanded trade, diplomacy, and was also of economic value.
Trump breaks international treaties.
Trump - let's face it - supports terrorists. What on earth do you think Kim Jong Un is. And speaking of nuclear proliferation, and a classic case narcissist receiving compliments from Kim Jong Un does not amount to an end to a nuclear threat from North Korea.
It means Trump is easily played.
While the UN has released its findings on the investigation of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, Trump proposes selling weapons to Saudi Arabia - weapons that could endanger our country. (Does anyone remember who flew the planes into the WTC?)
So, here were are with Trump and his entourage of warmongering jerks who lied (remember that - THEY LIED) to get a war on in Iraq beating the war drum again.
With the impressionable, addle-pated and insecure mind of a lunatic president that the Republicans have been referring to as their empty vessel.
Well, whatever on earth could go wrong.
2
A war with Iran would make the Iraq war look like a party.
Why do we always end up with crazy people making these decisions?
3
It does not matter. Congress will approve any war. It is in our Government DNA. The United States is the single most violent and war mongering country on earth. Eisenhower spelled it out in his warning about the Congressional military industrial complex. Now it can be thought of as the .1%. Massive amounts of the american budget go to the pentagon, which funnels money to the long list of war profiteers, Boeing, Rathyon, Haliburton, and the like. They benefit from this socialist handout and turn that into profits by selling arms across the globe. As the largest arms dealer in the world, the united states has an interest in more global violence and chaos. The madness is baked in and will be promoted by all politicians and news outlets, like this one currently writing stories about Trump the reasonable leader all of the sudden. Give me a break and stop the evil.
3
Don't just look back 20 years - is the Editorial Board so young it forgets Viet Nam? Read A Bright and Shining Lie by Neil Sheehan, and/or Dereliction of Duty by General H.R. McMaster who, though he overlooks LBJs huge contributions to Civil Rights (Civil Rights act, Voting Rights act, getting Thurgood Marshall on the supreme court) nails the inconceivably bad mix of military and political mismanagement that made US entry and failure a deadly debacle.
1
With military operations in the Middle East running at $1T+ per year, the State Department and the President continue run-up deficits and the national debt, and their solution are tax cuts, mostly benefiting the wealthy, and tariffs damaging consumers and relations with trading partners. Now the Administration wants to add another military conflict in the Middle East. Their chaotic decisions are not serving the Country well, to say the least.
2
I think that the Editorial Board is mistaken in its position on the requirement for Congressional approval of even a limited military response to Iran. It seems to be that the longer the US delays a military response to Iranian provocations the higher the risk that Iran will conclude that it can act with impunity and the higher the stakes will become for the US. It is essential that we separate the requirement for prompt limited response under the control of the President and the need for Congressional approval on a prolonged military conflict which rises to the level of a war. I think that the War Powers Act recognized that reality and its logic should be followed as we go forward.
5
@John Eley: Do you really believe that nothing the US does is a provocative and profound insult to intelligence?
I've been in the commercial real estate business. Trump is as fake as they come.
2
I'm the last person to defend Trump, but I have to give him credit for canceling the military option. That doesn't excuse the actions he has taken which got us to this point, nor do I disagree with the Times's editorial, but let's acknowledge a smart decision when we see one.
1
@Sledge
Trump does what people tell him. He doesn't make decisions on his own..smart or otherwise. Hannity, Bolton the Saudis, or his pollsters..
3
There is a basic moral imperative here. That is, there is no reason to start a war that would cripple the world's oil supply. The Trump administration, Congress and world leaders must face up to the pre-eminence of this moral imperative and put aside the political paralysis of economic retaliation in confronting Trump. Does the U.S. have a political objective with Iran other than "regime change"? Does the real risk of an energy armageddon with Gulf oil unavailable to Europe and Japan increase the moral choice for these countries to step up and say "No!" to Trump and his military escalation? Silence and inaction are only putting them and the world at risk? We desperately need leadership. If not from The White House, then from Congress, the Democratic presidential candidates, the Europeans, and perhaps even the Iranians. Fear of making the moral choice because of Trump only makes it all the more likely that another catastrophe will occur. There is a "profile in courage" award that is waiting to be claimed. Hurry before it's too late.
4
@Paul Wortman
First, I think most people on these pages would love to see the oil supply halted.
Second, we have plenty of oil without Iran. The US is energy independent and a net oil exporter, and why would an engagement with Iran halt the sale of oil with the Saudis or the other Gulf countries?
@Paul Wortman. Supplying oil is not a “moral imperative”.
@Paul Wortman: The US should know better than any other nation that foreign threats harden established regimes.
2
Why consult congress when they do not want to be consulted. They have clearly delegated that responsibility to the executive largely because they so no incentive in being forced to make the tough decision that could cost them come election time.
As such it is Trump's decision to make. Period.
3
Putting aside some of the rhetoric, Trump's Iran policy has been firm but not likely to draw us into a ground war.
Obama's Iranian nuclear deal put us in a very tough spot. It strengthened Iran's economy -- and thereby the strength of its theocratic strongman regime -- gave it additional funds to wage proxy wars and terrorism across the region, permitted it to continue developing ballistic missiles, and allowed it to pursue nuclear weapons in just 15 years (now 13 years).
That deal perhaps bought time but also put the US and the West on a likely, eventual collision course with Iran. Withdrawing from the deal and pursuing economic sanctions again is the best course for AVOIDING a ground war. Iran may lash out here and there, but that is a sign to me that the sanctions are working. And we can respond with limited air or sea engagements. There is no reason to ever put ground forces in Iran, and Trump shows no inclination to do so.
I AM concerned about Trump's failure to form alliances with our allies. But the overall Iran policy is sound ... and working.
5
@Econ101
Your premise for a sound agreement would mean to me that a previous agreement made by our county wasn't outright broken. There were ways to go about strengthening the agreement that existed: breaking a promise made by our great country was not one of them.
2
@Deborah Testa
Ah, but the US did not make the deal, not in accordance with very clear US treaty law. For a treaty to be binding, it requires ratification by the Senate, which Obama did not get. Tom Cotton was criticized by the media for this at the time, but he sent a letter on behalf of the Senate prior to the deal being inked making it clear that the deal would not be binding until ratified by the Senate.
That SHOULD be a lesson to the world. If you want a treat with the US, don't trust the signature of a president who doesn't have the treaty ratified in accordance with US law.
3
@Deborah Testa
The "promise" was not made by our great country, it was made by Obama. For it to have been made by the country and receive official status, it required ratification by the Congress, which was never done, for which both Democrats and Republicans were responsible.
3
The anxiety which we are all experiencing towards this issue,
is because of the post 9/11 war powers of the Presidential Office.
What ever happened to the old days of Congress voting to declare war? Even when America was legitimately attacked in WW2 it went to Congress...(last time I checked drones aren't human)
5
The authors state, "if [the president, Bolton, Pompeo] want a wider military conflict with Iran, they first need to persuade Congress and receive its approval." Shouldn't they begin with seeking the approval of the American people, based not on lies and propaganda, but accurate information? Studies have been done that show Congressional action doesn't necessarily reflect the will of the people, in fact the opposite is often true. It appears clear that some of these players want war with Iran and will invent justifications for it without revealing their true motives. One thing among many that is unclear to me and probably to millions of others is why we imposed sanctions on Iran. By all accounts it was complying with the nuclear agreement it reached with the U.S. and others under the Obama Administration, an agreement from which Trump unilaterally withdrew. It appears that these officials and unidentified others (Saudi Arabia?) are escalating tensions with no accountability to the American people. Yes, Congress needs to assert itself and fulfill its constitutional obligations, but we, the people, also need to fulfill ours. It's time to become involved and demand accountability.
6
It's beyond arduous to identify even a rumor of an admirable quality of #45 but this may be it. His instinct is to not start a war. Sadly, Bush, apparently transformed into a reflective painter, would have acquiesced to the lawyerly arguments of the hawks and gone through with it - potentially leading to a wider conflict, great human suffering, and more instability. In the arena of ideas, the opinions of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and now Bolton should be heard, but it is critically important to recognize that these people are pathologically cold-blooded, locked inside their own heads, and capable of inflicting significant damage on the human race if their recommendations are followed.
1
@Bryan Trump's only instinct is to protect himself from blame and to avoid harming his brand. As confirmed airchair warrior, he does not fear the death of other people.
1
My fear was that Trump would try to start some kind of conflict, and after many Americans dead, claim that he was the hero, stopping the possible disastrous war. What happened with Iran, and Trump's claiming to save the day with a stroke of his pen and a possible casual call to not attack is absolutely terrifying, and reminiscent of this "savior" type action minus the Americans dead. (Fortunately!!)
I give praise to Trump that he has an aversion to war, and in that regard I support him. Diplomacy is what is needed, and I am not sure how or when that will happen, but other countries also realize that Trump is not a popular president, and are most likely biding their time until a more skilled diplomat takes the Oval office. Much of our conflict today can be resolved with good diplomacy. I think we have all learned our lessons from the Mid-East conflicts.
1
@K.M So far, Trump has displayed complete disregard for diplomacy, and enjoyed childishly insulting England, France, Germany, Korea, Iran, Mexico, Canada, and other countries. So much for the self proclaimed great deal maker.
2
This shows how important it is to get the bill ending Authorized Use of Military Force by the president. The house passed HR1274. Now the Senate needs to do its job to give the power to make war back to the Congress where it belongs. I’m lucky to live in OR where my Representative Kurt Schrader took a leadership role in helping this bill pass and both senators will support it in theSenate.
4
1953 we orchestrated the overthrow of a democratically elected government in Iran.
In its place we established a ruthless authoritarian dictator.
1979 that dictator was overthrown leaving use with the anti-American theocracy.
2002 "W" gave the "Axis of Evil" speech and began the drumbeat for invading Iraq. Intelligence was altered & fabricated to that end.
A year latter we invaded with no clear end game. We declared victory, then Iraq plunged into chaos, destabilizing the entire middle east.
Results:
Massive migrations to Europe fueling a anti immigrant nativist surge that is eroding the post WW 2 world order we created.
With out a counter balance in Iraq, Iran becomes more influential.
Both Iran and North Korea ramp up their nuke programs.
Obama halts the Iranian program for a decade. Valuable time to allow the moderates and a younger generation to become influential. Western money and ideas would wear down the theocracy. Protest were growing in the rural, the more conservative parts of the nation. To some degree this plan would have worked.
Then BOOM, trump and his tough talk, withdraws us from the deal and makes our allies do the same.
To make matters worse he's giving Saudi nuclear technology.
So we are surprised by Iranian actions?
They WILL build a bomb now.
Furthermore there is no way to read DT, how could they he doesn't even know what he wants to do.
Tough talking hard liner or Isolationist?
First Kim is rocketman then he is loverboy.
This wont' end well
4
@David Meli
It is supremely naive to think giving the Iranian dictators everything they wanted would somehow weaken them and result in younger moderates to gain power and moderate the government in the next decade.
Just look at what actually happened. Flush with cash and access to Western markets, Iran beefed up its Revolutionary Guards, cracked down harder than ever on dissenters, and increased its foreign military adventuring and support for terrorism.
You think it's a win that Iran paused its nuclear breakout for 15 years? Before the deal, it was firm, unified policy among the G7 plus Germany to NEVER allow Iran to get the bomb. The deal made it policy to make Iran economically strong and PERMIT it to have the bomb in 15 years.
2
@David Meli Trump just does not have the mental bandwidth for a policy beyond "Obama bad, Trump good." And he said he knows "more than the generals." So he is not inclined to listen to anyone who knows anything. He would only listen to Putin because he's afraid of him.
1
June 21, 2019
The Congress we have today is not a pretty sight for a consolidated effort to reign in our Commander and Chief, yet is it by law that the Congress effect its role in the matter of the Iran attacking our drone in what is described of -taken down in the international waters about the Persian Gulf. Ultimately the call albeit Iran or America is by the call of the people that allow for their state of affairs and whatever actions the to fruition for seemingly interest that are rational and achievable . So it is what make up the minds of warring states and as history tells us the forces of the available armed power to demonstrate to itself and the world - with the ultimate result of body counts and entrenchment for animosity recorded in the power or power politics all for the good of no good path to design the higher moral restraint with the enlightenment for the historic measure of nation's wisdom to admire for the best of humanity and its measure of decency in the name of civility on the world stage.
2
As he's proven repeatedly throughout the years, Trump is a human wrecking ball.
Whenever I see him waddling to a podium or walking toward Air Force One (trailing some toilet paper on his heel), I can't help thinking of a widened version of James Cagney when he's screaming "Look! I made it! Top o' the world, Ma!"
As a woman, imagining being alone with this letch in an elevator scared me, but now that he squeaked in as our president (and after losing the popular vote by a very wide margin, the reality of which this vainglorious creep is not capable of acknowledging)--- this guy and his entourage of inept warmongering dolts, really does scare me more.
3
What sane country would believe any video circulated by anyone from the United States? Sarah Sanders created and circulated a doctored video of Jim Acosta "putting his hands on an intern." Trump re-tweeted the doctored videos of a "slurring" Nancy Pelosi and anti-Muslim tripe from England. Presidential lies may not matter anymore to the GOP, but they do in less autocratic countries that Trump is trying to rally after he has insulted them for his entire time in office.
3
@historicalfacts So true. When you know that our POTUS has told over 10,000 lies since taking office, who would believe anything he says.
This newspaper isn't about making America great again. It's about attacking Trump and China and Russia essentially have won the cold war because of you. Iran has been a problem for years and Kerry's antics were, for me, reminiscent of Chamberlain in 1938. You go on and on and on about comparing Trump to Hitler simply for a good narrative, but this country is facing some serious external threats. In some ways, it might be good that Iran know how close we were to military action. CNN, not exactly an objective resource, did a special on the Vietnam war and interviews with Vietcong leaders indicated that they were truly afraid of Nixon's irrational behavior. There's strength in Trump's type of leadership as well as some serious and disturbing flaws. You call Trump a bully, well, so is the liberal left. This editorial isn't about the issue at hand - Iran. It's once again about Trump and exacting a revenge for his election victory. I wish the Supreme Court would grant him emergency powers and make him president for life. Not because he knows what he's doing, but because the left is displaying serious anti-American behavior and playing, like the traditional naive Americans, into the hands of our foes. Now about Iran, folks? What is to be done? The liberals wrung its hands about Rasputin in 1916 and the popular catch phrase of the day was "it can't on like this." The liberals was an irrelevance a year later. Let's hope history repeats. Now, Iran?
1
@OldMaid
America was already great- not so much anymore! We WERE the country with integrity- a country the world looked up to, not feared. A country most of the world wanted to emulate and work with- not hate. When the US entered into the nuclear accord with Iran- it was a signed PROMISE between countries. It's true: many disliked it, but that doesn't mean that any subsequent US POTUS should break the deal and start imposing sanctions. Who will ever trust us again? The answer: nobody. This unethical, world-wide bullying will eventually fail and our country will pay dearly. We are no longer the country of the free and brave. We are the coercive country of corrupt leaders, and our freedom is dwindling by the day.
4
@OldMaid I certainly agree Trump has no idea what he is doing, and he also won't listen to anyone he suspects is an "expert." An ignorant, impulsive president, from whatever party, is not a good thing.
1
In an accompanying article we see the fulminating National Security Adviser, John Bolton, fulminating his hawkish anti-Iranian bile. bolton has never met a war opportunity that he didn't like, except for the one that called for his own service in the line of fire.
The good Secretary didn't even need bone spurs to weasel out of the calling that killed or wounded so many of his compatriots. At the time of his dereliction, Bolton had the gall to blame his cowardice on Senator Ted Kennedy.
3
All those who voted for Donald should have to serve in a war against Iran, I don’t care how old you are!
All of the Trump children should have to serve in this war! And Trump can pay for the war with his “billions”!!!!
NO MORE WAR....the U.S. needs the money at home!
6
And just think of all the new refugees Dishonest Donny will be creating and we all know what he thinks of refugees. If he wants them to stay home, maybe America should stop destroying those homes...needlessly!
4
How can most congress who is paid by the few people who make war equipment to keep as many wars going as possible be made to vote against their sugar Daddies? Oh and I include Lockheed Martin and Boeing and gas and oil into that murderous mix. Honestly NYT do you actually want all the republicans and 80 present of the Democrats to give up their millionaire status, which they never could have gotten on their paltry salaries. Dream on NYT. You know what is going on, who is this worthy and noble opinion piece for anyway. Name the corruption, just once, just once, then we can have a real and vital conversation about Congress and War and health care and education and saving the planet. Just out the corruption, just once.
3
He's called it off as of now for being a disproportionate response. I don't like him either but give the man a break. The Times' rush to judgment makes you look foolish.
@Rick Rorapaugh Our president is the biggest fool in the country, trust me, I know.
Yes and if you didn't think we had cause to impeach previously, you may be thinking twice. It is clear that Pompeo does not have the humanity or cognitive courage to actually focus on an optimal strategy for peace and cooperation among the people and nations of the region. These nations and all too many others are like spoiled brats and playground bullies. What is required is evolved adults.
The Republicans with many of their corrupt Presidents have long represented big oil and have provoked wars or started them based on fabricated or manipulated intelligence, with the Iraq 1 and 2 being clear cut instances going back to April Glasby's wink/nod to Sadam to invade Kuwait to justify "1" and the big fat WMD lie to line Haliburton's pockets. Ike, while a great commander in the defeat of the Nazi's is the one who got us into Vietnam. The 9/11 incident should have been handled as a criminal matter rather than a pretext to invade a sovereign nation. This hasn't changed under current Republican "leadership" in my view.
It was not a coincidence that Tillerson was appointed and that at one point the White House looked like the boardroom of Goldman Sachs. Ruthless people who act without conscious have no interest in building stable global markets and associated social fabric but are living in a world of arcane and barbaric paradigms of scarcity and control, which have no place in a species that intends to survive and thrive among the galactic society we will want to join.
2
Hold your breath collectively. Any moment Jared Kushner, boy wonder, will show up to fix it all like he did in Israel.
1
There’s a big difference this time. In previous wars America started, the “allies” joined in. They trusted the Americans to be telling the truth about, for instance, weapons of mass destruction. Even though that one turned out to be false, the world tends to think it was an honest mistake. But now we are in a world of dishonest mistakes, of a liar in the White House. Second, America no longer has “allies”. My country Canada has sent troops to every Middle East theatre when asked by the Americans, but now Trump is hated and despised. Since Trump said Canada was a “security threat”, we don’t take vacations in the US and we don’t buy American wine, fruits and vegetables. We frankly don’t consider ourselves “allies”, because being an ally is not consistent with being a security threat. We also abhor a country that insults our Prime Minister. Trump can insult women journalists and actresses in vile ways, he can call politicians and others, fat, ugly, dog face, or whatever, and America, unbelievably, cheers him on. But people in other countries don’t have to take his insults. America has changed - its true character has emerged, long suppressed by moral leadership but now unleashed - news anchors saying Obama should be strung up, Jew haters marching in the streets, gunmen murdering muslims at prayer, police beating up and shooting black people. America is now isolationist, insults other countries and is full of racist bigots. “Allies” to this? No way!
5
@Cranford Most of us extend heartfelt and sincere apologies. While it will not happen in my life time, we hopefully will begin working to rebuild and restore the trust you once showed in us. If we haven't made progress by November of 2020 we implore you to be as gracious as possible to the refugees that seek asylum in your beautiful nation.
2
@Cranford Wow. Just wow. I live in a quiet town in America. I see the news and the ugliness out there. But let me tell you, my friends are good people, and there are so many other good people I deal with on a day to day basis. Right now I am feeling so much sympathy for the small people in Iran, as I am part of the small people in the USA. War is a crazy aspiration. I know there are people in Iran who don't want war either. Goodness of heart is lacking in our leaders, peace is not in their heart. But I do have peace and good will my heart. You are not my enemy despite what Trump says, you never were. The people of Iran are not my enemy. Light shines in small places, unknown to the larger parts. If we head into war so many Americans will morn. Please don't hate me because I am American.
1
Congress is completely dysfunctional. What fantasy world are you living in??
1
Would that it were so. Wonder if the lauded Times Editorial Board would be calling for Congress' blessing if Hillary Clinton sat atop the iron throne...
1
Please Congress stop this madman from starting a war which is only meant to satisfy his overinflated ego and for some reason his hatred of anything Islamic, except those that fill his bank accounts.
3
Thank God he wasn't President during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
3
@jfdenver JFK didn't flounder around and claim he knew "more than the generals." He sought advice from many different experts, unlike Trump's approach.
He did clearly know what war would mean, and he also knew some history. He started out as a rich playboy, but he was smart and not under the delusion that he was a genius. In contrast, Trump's view of himself is so wildly inaccurate, it does call for us to wonder if he has any true perception of the world around him. JFK was articulate and could explain what he was doing, whereas Trump is largely incoherent in public.
1
Bravo editorial board!
2
The same crowd that wanted to launch a nuclear first strike against Russia based on a lie now want to bow down to Iranian aggression? Very peculiar...
1
Vote out GOP . War is the go to for every Republican Pres in trouble. Ray Sipe
3
Bolton-Pompeo-Cotton, all have massive Likud money behind them....
2
Forget the cooler heads, I just want head with a brain.
3
Your editorial struck me with an analogy to Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, it wouldn't be the first time her tragic character have been so maligned.
Unlike Shelley's mythic creations our cast of characters can claim no good intent, no unforeseen repercussions, the GOP knew what they were exchanging for power.
Speaker Harry Reid used the same analogy in 2016.
"The Republicans have spent the past eight years stoking the fires of resentment and hatred building Trump piece by piece".
"It's time for the GOP to put a stop to the Frankenstein they created".
2
If Bolton, Pompeo, and Cotton want to fight Iranians so badly, then we should give them each a rifle and parachute them into the country.
6
WAG the Dog
MAGA
KAG
To trump it’s slogans and re-election to protect him from his acts of treason.
1
More like warhawk circus! Trump is a crisis of credibility!!
2
Congress.....Don't let these incompetents and trigger happy hawks usurp your responsibility. No hiding!!!
Shades of Cheney, Rumsfeld and their war puppet Bush.
3
What do you do when you realise you cannot win another election because people finally realised you are a corrupt, incompetent liar? You show everyone how tough you are and start a war no one wants or needs.
Congress needs to step up right now and ensure this president doesn't drag the United States into another war.
1
Have a Summit like with the North Koreans, Donald.
1
Four points: This should be a moral lesson to those who furiously oppose this administration that elections matter. Most people now running are running to the base hell-bent on the nomination no matter what the result for the real outcome. The people who vote count, all of them.
I thought the pretext for the Iraq invasion was WMD. Al-Qaida is a religious militancy that basically hated Saddam's fascism even if his origin, like theirs, was Sunni.
So, given the sectarian base of al-Qaida, claiming an alliance between them and Sh'ite Iran, their opponent in Syria, is an absurdity on the face of it.
The slow bleed of Afghanistan is less about treacherous terrain than it is about other treachery, underhand support for Taliban, and harboring Osama Bin Ladin for example.
Even in this rare attempt by an unabashedly hawkish newspaper to limit wars, the NYT can’t even be honest about US military aggression. Look at the first sentence: “maritime incidents, shrouded in the fog of uncertainty, have lured the United States into wars on foreign shoals.” Lured? You mean “been used as a pretext by.” The passive voice game that the media plays, always claiming the US “stumbled” into war here and there, offends the public’s intelligence. If Trump bombs Iran, it will be because the US government and the NYT have been demonizing that country for four decades.
3
Let's see: A nuclear deal was put in place by the U.S. and a dozen allies to curtail Iran's nuclear ambitions. It did. trump hates Obama, so we're out, leaving our allies holding the bag. And trump insulted them as idiots on the way out. Now Iran feels like a chump, and starts thumping their chests as payback. Now trump demands everyone support the war footing HE created, hysterically babbling a different lie daily, his message in tatters, his famed negotiating skills now on display for all to see. Then he puffs himself up as a leader and blames everyone else for any confusion.
If trump's fan club think it's keen to go to war in the middle east again, based on vague lies exactly like Iraq, go. Gather your precious tax dollars and pool them to pay for this. Send your own children and grandchildren to fight. You folks keep telling us that the whole country approves of DearLeader, so there should be millions of troops available to satiate Bolton's years long dream of killing Iran. Ignore your own nation's history; if Dems don't like it, you can just call them traitors. Somehow y'all don't mind tax money going to Bin Salman and Dick Cheney, but a Guatamalan 2 year old is your ultimate threat.
5
The U.S. has been constantly at war since WW II. Not one can be called a victory, almost all were defeats. Not one made U.S. citizens any safer, most weakened the country. Millions died overseas and the U.S. is without any moral platform from which to criticize others countries. At home the crushing war budget leaves our citizens with crumbling schools and roads, underpaid teachers and other public servants, hungry children, lack of health care for millions, unimaginable suicide rates among our vets, and stagnation in dealing with climate change, the greatest threat of all. Only the war industries can claim any benefit. Yet leaders from both parties continue to drink the Kool Aid of "national security."
6
Yes... we need a cooler head like Bernie Sanders. Not one of these other washed up moderates that don't rely on political principals like non-interventionism.
1
Great editorial, but it left out one unknown. Did our drone actually enter Iranian airspace? Between Pentagon secrecy (and possibly simple uncertainty) and Trump's complete disregard for the truth, we may never know what really happened. Under these conditions, military action by the US is unacceptable.
3
@Alan D and why don't we know yet? Could it be that even a third grader could do the word math puzzle: country A said it's drone was 20 miles away in international airspace, 8-10 miles high. Country B shot down said drone with a surface to air missile with a range of 8-10 miles. Who is telling the truth?
1
Most concerning, despite his stated aversion to entering another war, he shows little sign of having learned a central lesson of the past two decades of American military action: that it is easy to start conflicts and impossible to predict how they might end.
Excuse me for being dense, but wouldn’t that conclusion be exactly the reason for his making the opening statement? I don’t think it’s me that’s confused about what I read anymore.
1
First off, Mr. Trump started this mess by pulling out of the Iran deal. And once again, this administration does not have an end game plan to solve it.
Write your members of Congress. They need to push back on Mr. Trump and his “hawks”.
2
@JCAZ, but not Obama’s for telling the Iranians that in ten years they can go for their bomb with his blessings and hope that in the mean time he can charm them with his smile? Which by the way will be out of office soon?
Yes, declaring war ought to be Congress' call, and authorize the president to proceed (or not), not the other way around, especially when we have warmongers in the administration unuable, or unwilling, to measure the awful consequences of going ahead by manufacturing events to justify, a priori, a military intervention. But the Congress has been AWOL in that regard, cowards as they are and to protect their petty seats in government. This is called 'dereliction of duty'...and the least to be done, if justice has a say, is to withhold their salary until some courage can be 'imposed' on them. Have congressmen/women lost any sense of duty, dignity and decency in promoting and doing what's prudent? Besides, it's the right thing to do...unless they sold their Faustian souls to the devil.
1
Proper and Ethical Protocol: When a country signs an accord, such as the accord between the USA & Iran, a change in the US Presidency should NEVER, ever allow the next POTUS to scrap it and impose sanctions just to get what he or she wants. How will our country ever be trusted again? Some say the agreement was flawed: Perhaps- then use your leverage to hammer out an amendment or better agreement through diplomacy. What is happening here is DISTRUST, which is so sad as our country was probably the most trusted in the world before our current POTUS took office. How can we ever be trusted again?
1
@Deborah Testa At the very least we must massively vote out Trump in 2020. He pays no attention to anyone not part of his base, but the base is a minority of all voters.
Israel is of course the wild card in all of this. Bibi has been clamoring for the US to take on Iran and force a regime change since Iran is a significant threat to Israel. Trump has largely been Bibi's toady, backing the hard-line Israel world view. I have to believe that Israel is continuing to exert pressure on Trump to attack Iran. It is not out of the realm of possibilities that the Israelis were behind the tanker limpet mines as a way to force the issue. Trump needs to dump Bolton, shut out Bibi, and listen carefully to our allies.
2
Many of the cheerleaders for a war are paid handsomely by the gulf Shiite countries.
Many have been given generous stock options on defense contractors shares.
This is unconscionable and where undisclosed conflicts exist, wrong as wrong gets, if not explicitly illegal.
Exposing these conflicts would be an act of patriotism as well as one of good reportage.
4
AS THE WORLD LAUGHS is the name of America's latest reality show with Trump starring in this global joke as Commander and Chief. This week, in an effort to win big ratings the "president" goes off script and threatens the planet with war. When dialogue like "Drop the bomb" goes flat it's quickly rewritten with "Wait a minute, don't drop the bomb". AS THE WORLD LAUGHS, a Republican Production, might be better titled HOW THE WORLD BECAME HOSTAGE TO A MAD MAN.
1
a month away from 96, I was a combat intelligence/information officer in WW2, as we battled Leyte Gulf, fought daily Kamikazes after Iwo Jima, Okinawa, etc..stayed in the Naval Reserve until after Korean war, became a believer in Eisenhower's fear of the 'military/industrial complex', horrified by the insanity of the McCarthy years, marched against the lies of Tonkin Gulf, the Viet and later the Iraq wars, the killing of millions of innocents....but
I find myself more appalled--and incensed-- by what is occurring as I write--the conscienceless and heartlessness of Bolton, Pompeo, Liz Chaney, Cotton===and the beyond words--corruption of our president. I fear for our country.
3
ordering the bombing of iran and then calling it off mid-flight?
trump is totally incompetent, and a threat to human life across the world. why can't all former presidents speak out loudly and forcefully that this existential threat cannot be allowed to continue.
3
So, we should send them a few more billion dollars and hope that they use it for the good of their people?
1
We seem to have no memory of our issues with Iran and maybe the news media plays a role in our selective memory.
If you searched up Iranian attacks on shipping, you can find plenty of stories but look closer and you can see the exact same stories several years ago. Same news broadcast (still available on YouTube).
You can see that president Obama's government used cyber attacks against Iran. Obama brought economic sanctions against Russia, who then sold Iran anti-aircraft weapons making any move on our part almost impossible.
You will find that Iran brought down a U.S. drone (likely by taking it over and landing it).
Fast forward a few years, Iran still attacks ship, still brings down drones, still sponsors terrorism and all Obama had to show for his efforts was he, Putin, the Chinese leaders and our allies made a deal for Iran to slow their bomb making down for a decade. Of course Iran took the deal, no doubt Putin advised them to play along, getting tens of billions of dollars (which helps buy Putin's missiles) and in return, build nuclear facilities which can be converted after the short term Obama deal is over.
We will deal with Iran today or tomorrow or at sometime but they are much stronger now and part of the problem was president Obama and his anti-Israel stance.
Many still believe Obama threatened to shoot down Israel's planes if they attacked Iranian bomb making sites.
Trump or Obama, same issues.
1
Lets face it. Trump is nothing but a shared poodle owned by MBS, MBK and Putin. Collectively, they are probably the only reason the Trump and Jarrod enterprises are still afloat. I suspect he will ultimately do the bidding of whoever pays him the most.
4
Now more than ever we need our checks and balances. Trump is that very demagogue the founding fathers had in mind.
5
If the US finds itself caught up in a war with Iran, the world will blame the US, not the Iranians.
The US tearing up its agreement with Iran, China, Russia and the Europeans was a stupid decision that will, in the end, leave the US isolated.
2
I spent much of 1984 on the aircraft carrier USS America in the Indian Ocean anticipating orders to strike Iran. My thoughts this morning on "Cadet Bone Spurs" military fiasco with Iran:
1. The so-called Commander-in-Chief has lost all credibility within the uniformed services. Under no circumstances should a president ever use the Armed Services as extras in a real-life reality TV show ("Will he bomb Iran or won't he? Tune in next week...".
2. How can GOP senators defend this dangerous amateur show? How can they defend their seats after this unprecedented farce? Hello Blue Wave US Senate 2020!
3. Iran has nothing to fear from the US. The Trump/Boulton/Pompeo freak show does not intimidate them.
4. The House should stand with our troops and move forward ASAP with an impeachment inquiry with aim of removing Trump and the specter of yet another multi $ trillion Middle East military fiasco.
5. Can Trump's base stand with him after his whacko in-flight about face? Today would be a good time for GOP alternatives to Trump to announce their run for president.
4
Congress should cut this gunboat adventurism out of the military budget. Cut the military budget by 50% till the wannabee king comes to heel.
3
What a lot of people don't know is that the U.S. outproduces Saudi Arabia by 31% in the daily production of oil. We clearly don't need to protect the Strait of Hormuz to provide plenty of oil to run the U.S. economy. Along with Canada, our neighbor to the north that Trump seems intent on turning into an enemy, we produce more oil than Saudi Arabia and Russia combined.
The Saudi's and the Iranians are mortal enemies, let them settle their stupid religious squabble on their own.
In the meantime, outlaw the export of oil from the U.S. If we can't live with out own production, buy what we need from Canada. If we need even more oil, take it at 50% of the world market per barrel as reparations from the stupid war that cost us over $2.4 trillion.
We are not the world's policemen, if something happens and its effect could be minimized by clamping down on big business then let's do it - I'd much rather seeing the CEO of Mobil-Exxon crying on television about reduced profits than one more video of a casket carrying the remains of one more U.S. soldier being carried off the plane at the Dover air force base mortuary.
2
With some 10 minutes left before a few air strikes, the best stable genius thinks to ask how many people will get killed.
That's inspiring.
3
Are we going to allow a mentally unstable Donald Trump, and his gaslighting Svengali John Bolton, to remain in power and orchestrate the needless loss of countless American lives in the Persian Gulf?
Our Constitution was not designed to withstand the sort of domestic terrorism that is the Trump Administration.
I urge Congress to remove Mr. Trump from office immediately.
3
The UN is either going to find a way to create a criminal court with investigative powers that can try all citizens in the world, or we are one day going to wake to a nuclear war.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
1
We have no Secretary of State. How inept are these people? You don't go to war over a piece of equipment no matter much it cost. 1234 We don't want this fracken war.
1
If Iran is attacked then it should launch on Israel. Period. Iran has done everything they signed off on when they owned their responsibility of upholding the terms of the Iran nuclear deal.
Let’s all understand that Iran has every right to defend itself against rouge nations like our own.
Trump, Bebe, and the house of Saud are on the way to WWWIII while the rest of us twiddle and hold our pearls.
ENOUGH already.
1
Frankly..I think this whole "In the Air" scenario was, once again, Trump producing a Reality TV moment.so he could show how "humane" he is. Heh, Genuis..how many losses is the 1st question those Generals , that you know so much better than will ask.
But I am proud to know we have a Hawk Drone that can stop in mid-air. 50 or 21 miles..one turn and it's over Iran, so the international airspace rhetoric is full of hot air.
1
We do not have the best and brightest to attempt another a war in the Middle East.
2
The opinion references President Obama's decision to seek Congressional approval for action in Syria. The opinion fails to mention that President Obama did not seek Congressional approval to take military action in Libya.
2
With the divided Congress having little restraining influence on a President like Trump who is contemptuous to the rule of law and averse to institutional checks if anything that can help reverse his aggressive course against Iran it is his own sense of inadequacy and lack of confidence about his own course.
2
“Most concerning, despite his (TRUMP’S) stated aversion to entering another war, he shows little sign of having learned a central lesson of the past two decades of American military action: that it is easy to start conflicts and impossible to predict how they might end.”
Quite to the contrary it is quite possible to predict how they might end. The track record since 1946, discounting the Cold War and Desert Storm, has been predominantly abysmal. This is most certainly the case with Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
As for the “wisdom” of abandoning the Iran nuclear deal — Trump acted on impulse and ego and nothing remotely to do with any semblance of wisdom. It was his manic follow up to utter campaign flimflam that consistently enlivened his base.
4
@G. Sears: Trump obviously thinks he's smarter than nuclear physicists and rocket scientists too.
The Iranians will not have to fight if attacked. They can blow up the oil facilities in the Persian gulf and sit back and watch the economies of lots of countries, including the United States, tank. Not a pretty sight to contemplate.
4
@ALM: That ploy stopped Bush 41's invasion of Iraq in its tracks.
Why are we favoring Saudi Arabia over Iran? It makes no sense. Look at Saudi Arabia's actions: the Khashoggi murder, their actions in Yemen (need I say more?) , their financing of ISIS and their tolerance - if not support - of Al-Qaeda. Further, from a realpolitik perspective, Iran and Saudi Arabia check each other from becoming the preeminent power in the Middle East. So if Iran is degraded and/or destroyed in this potential war, what's to stop Saudi Arabia from running amok in the Middle East? Will we then have to engage in yet another war with Saudi Arabia to keep them from become the dominant regional power? How much blood must be spilled until the US realizes that military intervention in the Middle East is at best a fool's game?
9
@VoxAndreas: Shiites, who are a majority in Iran, comprise only 15% of Muslims. Sunnis and Shiites see each other as heretics.
Bolton has been National Security Advisor for over fourteen months already.
NOW you're saying that cooler heads must prevail?
I'm surprised that it took Bolton this long.
Bolton has been wanting to go to war with Iran for thirty years.
By moving the Carrier Strike Force into the Gulf, and deploying the B52 Squadron and the 2500 initial troop surge - Bolton (and everyone else) knew that it would not take long for an incident like the drone downing to trigger a war.
Trump may have called off the Air Strike this time, but Bolton knows that the collision course to war that he has set in motion will not be stopped forever.
6
@John Doe, at the Calgary Stampede they give the huge winning silver belt buckle to the cowboy that breaks the toughest bronc. Bolton is that, it’s probably no fun for Trump riding calves. Also the virtue from it is that afterwards you’ve got a really tough ox to pull your plow. Never mind the breeds.
Trump and his appointees have no credibility with the majority of US voters. There is no evidence that Iran threatens territory for which the US claims responsibility, US citizens or the few remaining allies of the US. Despite repetition of the cost of the "drone" (130 million), shooting it down is no reason to take military action without consulting Congress. There is no emergency which requires military action without Congressional action.
It is time for the Republicans to step up and demand to stop the "chicken-hawk" caucus in their party from another disaster like the Iraq invasion which was carefully built on lies from good men like Colin Powell. This time the lies of Trump are known, the war agenda of Bolton and Pompeo is known and the cost of a military action without approval from Congress is seared into the hearts of US voters.
12
What you said. Thank you. I awoke this morning feeling hostage to whatever fresh horror awaited as this dangerous head of state went on consulting with Mr. Bolton. Pelosi's general comments post-briefing seemed only to criticize Iran--not helpful. Can we all afford to sit tight until Congress finally calls Trump's tenure for what it has always been, a long-running and growing emergency, as they instigate yet another forever war, while continuing to damage us internally? Congress needs to act now, to begin defining how we all can apply the 25th amendment and/or accelerated impeachment of not just Trump but the criminals and wannabes he hires. GOP Senate and normal MOC's, are you listening? Insist on expert diplomacy now and then restore the nuclear treaty with Iran.
8
What is Congress waiting for? Impeach him, now!
12
Firs, though we have to present the case for impeachment to Americans. Then after the evidence is presented, the House takes a vote. It’s not just “impeach” there’s a process.
@Mari
And the House can only recommend impeachment (the equivalent of an indictment). The Senate has to actually impeach (the equivalent of a trial and sentence).
Trump will not be impeached, and most Americans will not be moved by a recommendation to impeach by a House that accused him for 2 years of colluding with the Russians after he was found not to have done so.
2
@Mari
... there is a process, and if you drag your feet long enough, voters will get disgusted, Trump will get re-elected, and some representatives may have to find another job.
Is Don Jr volunteering to serve?
12
This is how "God blesses America?"
With this charlatan?
5
Those who the gods would destroy, first they drive mad.
1
Afghanistan. Iraq. Syria. How's all that working out so far? So, yeah, let's get in a war with Iran.
It looks to me like no one in our government ever had the story of Br'er Rabbit and the tar baby read to them in childhood. How stupid can we continue to be ?
3
I don't think I recall Obama getting Congress' permission to overthrow Qaddaffi, or permission to drop bombs in Syria, or Clinton getting permission to commit our troops to Bosnia, or Obama getting permission to send planefuls of cash to Iran.
Am I missing something here?
If Iran screws with us with their tiny little speed boats..we need to disappear said speed boats...and put the ball back into Iran's court.
Looks like Trump is giving the Ayotallah an out by letting Iran throw one of their generals under the bus...or boat...as it were.
If I were Iran, I would take the offer, or a few more boats of his might start disappearing off the surface of the ocean.
2
@Erica Smythe
Yes, you are missing something. Kim Jong Un is still making nuclear weapons, but if you were awake you'd know that by now.
1
IF YOU want a war....then YOU and your family go fight it!
1
@Erica Smythe You're missing everything here. Of course, to the average AM radio/Fox "news" subscriber this is just another black and white case of them hating us for our "freedom".
First, what is it we are trying to accomplish with Iran? Is it Nuc disarmament? We had this and it was broken by us. Is it trying to stop Iran's influence in area? They are shite's as is Iraq and the A saudis are Sunnis. There is no way these two groups will cooperate so its obvious that Iran and Iraq will be together and Saudi on opposite side. Saudi is a bigger dictatorship, with more radical Islamic groups then Iran , yet we support them.
So what is it we want? It seems we are the fall guys to do what Israel and Saudi Arabia want, not what we need for our own security and peace. There is no military way to win as iraq and Afghanistan has shown. Obama got a major victory with diplomacy and compromise.
7
Iran linked with Al Queda? Who is so ignorant! Iran is Shiite, and Al Queda is Sunni. They are mortal enemies who have fought wars against each other for centuries, most recently in the Iran-Iraq war. Lack of understanding this was one of our largest blunders in Iraq. Here we go again - leading with ignorance.
12
McConnell will do nothing on this, as usual.
9
Wag the Dog! These same chicken hawks had no problem when Regan delt with Iran against the wishes of Congress. They want a war to interfere with the election and staying in power beats innocent deaths.
6
Linking al qaeda to Iran is sheer stupidity. Al Qaeda is sunni and Iran is Shia, they will never work together. This is just Pompous Peo and John 'I love war' Bolton using any pretext and trump doesn't know the difference. The man is and has know desire to learn anything. He can easily be manipulated.
9
Iranian hawks told you so: suppose we'd never negotiated and had even a single bomb now.
@Prof -- If they had even a single bomb now, there would be no talk of attacking. The hawks would be silenced.
2
John Bolton is the last person you want involved with anything, let alone the Middle East. He is not guided by history, logic, common sense, or morality. And before you label him a wild dog, please get to know what dogs are really like.
9
The nerve of these people interrupting Donald's executive time. He has better things to do like mull over color schemes for Air Force One and plan his grand Fourth of July campaign rally.
5
Yet I am glad Trump rightly decided that military retaliation wasn't proportionate in this case, and I am not so sure HRC would have shown similarly restraint. Not saying Trump's erratic behavior, especially on Twitter, is in any way good foreign policy—just glad he didn't attack.
3
@johnmcenroe
leave clinton out of this.
this is all on trump.
2
Mrs. Clinton would not have voided the treaty with Iran!
@johnmcenroe
You'd think he had actually attacked. It's as though even a refusal to bomb Iran isn't enough for his critics.
1
We got what the country elected. It's awful but all the insistence on earth that he be other than what he is wastes time and hope. He will hire whom he hires and he will do what he wants. US Senators either support his choices or are craven toadies. I am hoping this is as bad as it gets, but I am not optimistic that is the case.
5
If Trump and his minions pursue this adventurism to the point of armed conflict, Iran's agents will light up the Middle East and who knows maybe the US. To be sure there will be the intended rally round the flag moment to boost Trump's election chances but the price, the price...
4
Don’t bet on the “rally around the flag moment” we are against any war!
2
Trump was, is, and always will be a bully; its as simple as that.
His real estate business has always been operated from that premise, consequently any venture he undertakes whether directly or indirectly is subject to the reality that he sincerely believes that if something can't be accomplished through negotiations, on his terms only, then he will throw caution to the winds and through bombast and threats he will have his way.
After 40 years involvement in real property management in NYC, believe me I know.
With respect to this escalating insanity with Iran, do not be fooled; the billions upon billions of dollars to be realized by using current weaponry stockpiles, so the production lines can ramp up, is like pure herion to a full blown addict, so expect conflict any day.
With Trump, Pompeo, Bolton, and the pressure being exerted by their masters, the CEO's of our wholly avaricious military industrial corporate complex, I have no doubt that the decision is made.
Iran can stop it, by standing down now and asserting it will acquiesce to American demands, but will likely be prevented from doing so as the expectation of the hundreds of billions of dollars to be made in conducting another decades long major war, is just too much to pass up, so expect another larger "incident", and then full scale war.
Trump is a psychopath, a very clever psychopath, fixated on his winning regardless the cost.
8
Your heading is an understatement, if there ever was one!! It is a risk to the entire world to allow this lunatic and his hand-picked cronies free rein when it comes to foreign policy. You have an out-of-control 8 year-old running your country. If/when he makes an impulsive decision to attack Iran, after provoking them into their reactions, it is not just Americans who will be in danger - it's potentially the entire world and we are watching in horror. Is there really no one who can and will stand up to trump and his cast of hawks? Overall, slimy little Mitch McConnell is an even greater danger than the trump administration - he doesn't govern, doesn't follow the law, and does not live up to his oath of office. He hasn't for years and he most definitely does not stand up to trump. Most of the GOP senators seem complicit in this non-governance. Nancy Pelosi has my utmost respect, but I think she is making a mistake in not holding trump to greater accountability and beginning an impeachment investigation. The reason she should is that it's simply the right thing to do. Someone in a position of authority needs to stand up to contain this madness.
5
It would appear that Trump heard from uninformed officers in the situation room that provided him a perspective he isn't getting from Bolton and Pompeo.
Mattis's and Kelly's absences are bearing poison fruit.
3
We need to find a way to send a signal to the rest of the world, from the People of America: i.e. "We don't want war. We have mistakenly elected a complete and utter fool and our system doesn't allow us to control him. Please forgive us for the damage he may do, and rest assured that we're going to get rid of him at the soonest possible opportunity. We'll try to make it up to you in the future. Again, we apologize."
2
The correct statement would be that “ our system allowed this fool to become president despite the fact that the majority of us voted for someone else.”
2
@JimBob
No groveling on my behalf, please! Trump has sent the message that we don't want war.
1
Everything this pathological lying Trump does is incompetent, mentally unfit and unconstitutional. He is Tyrant attempting any illegal manner in which to provoke war with Iran. The only reason he called off his strike was the potential it would backfire legally, impeachment material and look bad for re-election. He again is lying as to his concern it might cost lives. His humanitarian concerns are non-existent as he chooses to slowly deplete the Iranians, starve their economy, abuse children at the border, put them in cages, put families in inhumane conditions, watch children die, disrupt families, refuse to work for solutions, etc., call for government shutdowns where people's lives are disrupted, have trouble paying their bills and obtaining necessary medicine. There is no forethought of humanistic concerns. There is only last minute narcissistic terror of how will this look for me. Never is there the thoughts --what will it mean to others, how will it effect others' lives, will it it cost life, etc. This is the analytical thinking which includes humanism and empathy. The last minute change of mind is that of a unfit, incompetent, narcissistic, incapable of any analytical forethought, where the fist decision would never had been made and then needed to be rescinded. We do not belong there, they are provoking war-- which will eventually cost lives. Congress should put us back in the Iran Agreement and as Trump to stay out of the negotiations.
2
“I find it hard to believe it was intentional”.
What exactly does Mr. Trump think the Iranians were doing with a surface to air missile; duck hunting?
2
Planting an aircraft carrier adjacent to Iran's territorial waters is a provocation. If any nation placed any offensive ships adjacent to the US territorial waters, the US would consider it a provocation. In all probability the US drone was flying over Iran's air space. This administration has absolutely no credibility. Think about the U2 flights of yesteryears. And think of the millions of Iraquis killed in the unjustified invasion of Iraq? Is America still in search of WMDs in Iraq requiring the maintenance of military operations in Iraq? Are we about to do the same to Iran on unfounded grounds? Where will this madness end ? And when?
America has as much business in the Gulf of Oman as Iran has in the Gulf of Mexico. Would America tolerate this situation? NO! No! No!
2
I guess my question is a peripheral one: Why was this drone so easily shot down? Are we flying reconnaisance aircraft incapable of perceiving themselves under attack? This drone cost $110 million dollars! Yet its operators were not aware it had been locked onto by an air-to-air missile battery? Heck, any military aircraft should be able to do that.
So now there is talk of sending human pilots in actual aircraft to defend a stupid robot that was designed to replace human pilots in the first place. Your tax dollars at work.
3
Two issues on Trump's aborted Iran attack:
1. It needlessly exposed thousands of our troops to risk just to satisfy Trump's irrational whim of the moment.
2. It convinced every adversary Trump is all bark and no bite. He lacks the moral courage needed to lead effectively. He conducts foreign policy the same way he handled his real estate empire--as a con game.
Conclusion:
The aborted attack should be Article 1 of Impeachment. He cannot be trusted with American lives or our foreign military policy.
Begin impeachment now--before it is too late.
Trump's egomania presents a clear and present danger to US national security.
2
War with Iran must be viewed in the context of Iran’s outsized power in DC. Iran controls the Democrats and the media (same thing)
2
the shooting down of a drone specifically engineered to operate above the effective ceiling of surface to air missiles had to be a wrinkle the Pentagon—the leaderless Pentagon—was not anticipating.
It has serious implications for attacking Iran as the majority of such will be from the air and not unmanned.
Are any of Trump's shot callers—or Trump himself—ready for video of captured US Navy and Air Force air crew?
"It would insult the intelligence of every American for the Trump administration to attempt the same gambit."
Not the base.
1
The fact that Donald Trump, reality TV show host, failed businessman, compulsive, narcissistic liar, is playing a major part in deciding whether or not the US goes to war, is the scariest thing I have seen in my life.
9
Trump is decisively showing his bone spurs. After Hanoi and canceled tariff threats, he has shown the country he can do an about-face but not that he can convert an impulse response into coherent policy.
Iran's attack on a US drone was mid-week, over disputed waters, and did not cause any human casualties.
The US land and sea mobilization that was apparently started and abruptly canceled was a stretch for the 2001 AUMF to justify, likely meant an incursion into Iranian territory, risked significant loss of human lives, and was launched on a Friday, the Muslim holy day.
Comparisons with the attack on Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Sunday, December 7, 1941 would have been obvious.
Regime change is necessary, but not in Teheran.
1
We were attacked by a rogue nation in international waters so why can't we put politics aside and be united against our enemy?
3
@Hank
Because everything this administration says is untrue. We are led by a "Liar In Chief" whose word is worthless. In the case of Pompeo, did they teach him to lie in West Point?
We should be united for reliable and truthful situations and not for the gibberish tweeting of an unbalanced fool.
3
@Hank
Sadly, because Trump is their "enemy".
1
This Editorial reeks of a horrible irony. The Editorial Board didn't consider it much of a problem endorsing Judith Miller's fake news about Iraq before the Gulf War. Nor was there any analysis of the budget-busting support of the military-industrial-political complex via the endless-war enabling AUMF. Nor was there much protest about Obama's "Maximum Pressure" normalization of drone warfare, which killed way more enemies than antagonists and created a perpetual and unending stream of radicalized fundamentalist enemies (including a built-in justification for their recruitment efforts.) Now have we seen a single Editorial Board opinion about the futility of 'forever war' as both a military strategy and moral precept. Nor has the Ed board weighed in against the skyrocketing war (sorry, "defense") budgets, now at their highest level in decades with no obvious military opponents on the planet. By any imaginable metric, the U.S. is the most warlike, war-centric, war-enabling, weapons-exporting nation on the planet.
The Military Industrial Political Complex needs wars to meet their business and political dominance objectives via terrorizing the public about both exaggerated and non-existent threats.
With the drawdowns in Iraq and Afghanistan, something needed to be done to get a new war going to keep profits flowing and the psychological fear-generation complex active as a Republican political strategy.
Trump is the perfect person to execute this strategy.
4
I wonder how much longer Trump can keep strangling countries economically before the rubber band snaps and pops him, and us, in the eye.
3
@ChristineMcM I appreciate the wisdom you bring to the NYT comments section and enjoy reading them. I suspect your comment re John Bolton was added to fit with your train of thoughts and not because you do not understand why he has such power.
Like all members of Trump's teams, he admires Trump, which automatically means he is deeply flawed. Because of this admiration he is allocated an important position.
1
The United States lost a lot of credibility in the world for many decades. Its government is run by politicians who do not really believe in the ideals they tout. And Americans do not really seem to have a representative government any more. Just consider from the recent past-
-Most if not all of the world's despots and tyrants are our partners,
-Our leaders launch wars everywhere in the world while we are smugly unaware of the horror they are unleashing on nameless people, all in our name.
- Our leaders speak of 'freedom' 'liberty' and all but we are openly siding with cold blooded murderers like Mohammad bin Salman but are screaming that Iran is the problem because they dare to stand up.
-Did the west ever apologize to the Iranian people for overthrowing they democratically elected government because of our corporate and capitalistic interests?
- Did our leaders ever apologize to the Iranians for shooting down their civilian airliner and killing over 300 of innocent civilians? Even our newspapers stopped mentioning this little inconvenient tidbit, yet talking about the Malaysian airliner shot down by the Russians in Ukraine! We may feel better about ourselves when we don't consider these but the rest of teh world can plainly see through this charade.
The world may be putting up with this charade for a few more years but the end of the western economic, political, and military might is now in sight.
At the very least, we have to acknowledge that others are humans too.
1
Obama and Kerry gave the reform leaning Iranians ten years to build their political power base and steer their country in a better direction. While some dark forces were still able to operate, slowly but surely reformers were gaining political strength. Donald Trump and his impulse driven team of war-mongers then purposely and recklessly provided Iran’s worst radicals an instant and direct path back to power. They managed to do all of this by breaking an international agreement, completely destroying America’s credibility in the process. Many people around the world will likely die over the coming years because of all this. There is no long-term strategy here. Donald Trump has only temporarily pulled us back from the brink due to election concerns. If re-elected, this impulsive and impatient crew of delusional, wanna be Patton’s will all happily drive us straight into World War III.
2
Maybe the Editorial Board didn't read the NYT today. Trump didn't call in a strike. He met with Congregational leaders and others. He made a point of saying it was unmanned. No lives were lost. Trump inherited this mess and more. The agreement let Iran make all the nukes they wanted after a few years and in the meantime, they used the new money to get themselves involved in the turmoil of other countries and to support of terrorism. Obama supported the overthrow of Qaddafi who wasn't even pointing a BB gun at us. Now we have Libya a breeding ground for terrorist. North Korea came with nukes and missiles to carry them at least as far as California. Trump sat down with Kim to seek a denuclearized peninsula. Iran was developing the means to build the bomb. Obama encouraged Iran to join in the fight against ISIS. Now we have a country, sworn to destroy Israel, entrenched in Syria and a lot closer to Israel. Even the NYT credited Trump for the defeat of the ISIS Islamic State. The relationship with Russia had progressed to the point that Russian military leaders were using the term "nuclear option" and they have six thousand nuke carrying missiles with our address on them. The waters are certainly calmer now but Putin was lot more influential in the Middle East by the time Trump became president. We still must deal with shipping safety and Iran may think, "Well, we got away with blowing up a drone, why not kill a bunch of Americans." Then all bets will be off.
1
President Trump faces a crisis in credibility? Mr. Trump is the embodiment of a crisis in credibility. Congress does need to step in and take action... immediately. Our country's cogency with our Allies is being destroyed by Trump's manic actions and Tweets. The American People of all political parties need to embrace the imminent disaster that is being created by the person currently occupying the White House threaten the safety of every American and our fellow World Citizens. WE THE PEOPLE must acknowledge that Mr. Trump is clearly unfit to serve as the POTUS. We must insist that elected officials in the Senate, Congress and the Supreme Court ACT and protect the people of this nation -- until this unstable, dishonest leader can be removed from office.
4
If only I had a President who I thought sometimes told the truth and a Cabinet and Senate who vie for groveling priviledges.
If only the US did not treat military interventions as opportunities to sell more weapons than any other country ...to Saudi Arabia for example, where most 9/11 terrorists came from.
If only our gov was not filled by people who couldn’t pass security clearances, were not actively profiting from their offices, were not temporary apptments that have not been approved.
If only my president had strategies rather than running our nation as he did his business 6 bankruptcies and all.
But we have a CinC whose thoughts are defined by tweets based on tv and are as incoherent as his garbled Language.
3
Well, yes, Mr. Trump. Once you start killing people, intentional or not, you’ve entered the terra incognito of open war. It is obviously imperative that Congress address this issue immediately before we enter another Middle East conflict.
2
Have just read that Trump called it off due to 'people dying'. He's a liar and a coward. He called it off because, in his world, people cave in to his demands. Primarily because they have to as he has some kind of leverage over them. He hasn't got a clue what will happen if Iran fights back and a war starts. Someone fighting back must terrify him.
I am not saying he should start a war, he shouldn't, just that he's all talk......
Who could not have predicted this. I said the day he was elected if he lasted 18 months by the time his was up for reelection he would start a conflict/war to prove he was presidential. This is a reelection strategy devised by the lowest of the lowest, the dirtiest of the dirty....oh that's describes his entire Administration.
4
Isn't all this Iran bluster convenient just as Herr Trump ramps up his reelection campaign? Fully 18 months before the election, he is in full peacock form only this time, he's about to start a war. He's found yet another way to turn all the attention of the world to himself. Not that there isn't a threat, but we all know how Vietnam started in the Gulf. Our government has Trumped up phony reasons for war more than once or twice. This man is completely out of control. Cannot keep his fat finger off the Tweet button long enough to make up his mind whether he wants to kill people, or not. He is unfettered and out of control. He would love nothing more than to attack Iran and then claim an enormous victory (ala George W. Bush bragging on the deck of that carrier so prematurely) going into this winter.
1
I wonder if a Democratic congress will be more willing to take back its war making powers. Under Trump, the Republicans have only enabled the imperial presidency. But it was Dems and R's who, over the years, allowed this to metastasize to the point where a clown pretends to be the king.
2
Note to Congressional Democrats:
Go ahead and add these hawkish screwups -- this Diplomatic Childishness -- to your multi-page List of Reasons to Impeach Trump.
Thanks.
3
A mad king surrounded by self dealing charlatans and knaves, wisemen banished and plots afoot. False prophets abound.
Heros slain,vanquished, or having abandoned their honor sink lower and lower into unknown depths.
War drums beating in a kingdom exhausted by battle, and suffering from a treasury looted, its streets filled with beggars. The corpses of war wounded cripples having ended their lives litter the streets.
As the plague called pollution stampedes on to overwhelm the world.
A host of zombies fleeing from pestilence bring it upon us, and physicians find their remedies exhausted, their knowledge insufficient.
The nightmare is no Shakespearean tale and we have to awake.
2
To trust this man to make the right decision is like expecting an infant to decide what to do in this situation. He is completely incapable of being sane.
1
Trump greenlit an attack on Iran without knowledge of casualty projections?
That's way past stupid and irresponsible. The man is not fit for office.
4
“The Trump administration’s campaign of maximal pressure and minimal diplomacy is bringing Iran and the United States every closer to blows.”
The quote sounds like a a better description of the Times’ Editorial Board’s attitude towards Russia than it does regarding President Trump’s thinking on Iran. Every time the president has a discussion with Russia or it’s leadership, the Times is quick to accuse him of collusion, and recommend criminal prosecution.
1
The thesis of this editorial opinion is spot-on correct. However; the media, and the Democratic party will throw rocks at, and block ANYTHING this POTUS says/does. Look back to May 2011: Should Obama have opened up the raid to take out Osama bin Laden to congressional debate? A fair analogy, eh?
What about Israel's nuclear weapons?
Why does that country not get the Iran treatment?
3
War mongering at home, where 40% of the population live within the Trumpian pseudoreality, will make for fine reading and bar room chit chat, but in Iran, where actual reality prevails, the situation will be desperate, existential, and absolute. A bunch of kids cornering a cat may be a bit of fun on a Saturday afternoon, but for the cat it's all or nothing; a permanently scratched cornea is the least of its concerns
2
The Times is seriously suggesting that war with Iran be decided by Congress, despite the fact that Congress is full of Democrats under Iran’s direct control?
1
You left out WMD
As a policy driver, undoing what a smart person has done in, exchange for stupid solutions seems unsuccessful.
Attacking Iran is Congress' call. That's the ideal, anyway, but with the political climate the way it currently is, anything the President wants, whether it is a blockade of some country, or an extra Diet Coke with his lunch, the other party is going to fight it. Absolutely down the line to try to make him look bad. You know this. We know this. The President knows this.
I agree that it is Congresses' call but they won't even defend our southern border so why should we rely on them to do anything?
2
On July 4, 1776, we declared our democratic independence.
Fast forward 240 years, and Trump proclaimed his dictatorship!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As dictator, Trump can destroy this nation, plunging us into war.
That is, if we let Trump get away with his media circus, now.
With threats of war with Iran, we might push back on Trump, now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(See "Democracy" song: "Democracy is coming to the USA",
by Leonard Cohen. Show the US flag, inverted for distress, now).
2
Why should we believe anything this administration says? It has been constant lying since the election campaign. This administration needs a war and will do anything to get one.
2
Incomprehensible that the us flirts again with a war in the Middle East. Third time’s a charm? No way the American people want another us-led adventure in the Middle East. Utter insanity.
2
I just seem to lurch from one suprise to another. I was surprised that, in the days following 9-11, the US did not unilaterally decimate the Middle East, covering Afghanistan in molten glass in the process. For the first time in seven decades, we were actually afraid (there was that unpleasantness with Russia and Cuba, but it worked out). That fear could have made us cruel and violent, and it did, but not to the extent that I thought likely. I mean, my God, we came close to sterilizing the Japanese islands and wiping out an entire society of people. Again. My latest surprise is that the president rescinded his attack because it wouldn't have been "proportionate". What? I didn't realize he knew what that word even meant. Did a mask just slip, one that presents him to the world as a stupid and incurious buffoon (to best represent his constituents)? What, exactly, are we dealing with here? My greatest fear is that he is actually a shrewd and capable person, spending his life hiding behind a protective cloak of incompetence to gain advantage over the gullible. What could such a mind do? That way leads to nightmares.
Starting a war (in response to ship & drone damage) without Congressional consultation & approval violates the constitution.
Please tell me why there isn’t an outcry against illegal executive war making? Pompeo, Bolton, & the Pentagon send the bombers, & Trump claims to save the world from more of his “fire & fury”.
3
We have a president who lies to the American people on a daily basis. We’ll never know what’s true and what’s not. I don’t trust him or his administration. Trump loves conflict and chaos. His foreign policy is mish mash fly by the seat of his pants. There is no strategy. I believe he would get us into war if he thought it would help him get re-elected or served him some other purpose. That’s the way he rolls. It’s ALWAYS all about him.
1
"Attacking Iran Is Congress’s Call"
How quaint.
1
Mission Creep is what caused MacArthur to try to go to the Yalu when the mission was only to push the North Koreans back to the 38th Parallel. It happens in most wars. When HW and Powell didn’t go after Saddam, draft dodger Cheney made up for it in 03.
Cooler heads than the one Trump used to not attack because it was disproportionate and would kill people? One wonders what president The Times Editorial Board is responding to.
Trump & Netanyahu need this diversion to try and up their ratings/poll #'s, and keep themselves out of jail.
And Bebi has been wanting to strike Iran for years and is an expert in playing Trump to do his bidding.
Jared's new BFF MSB, along with Bolton, Pompeo & Cotton are hellbent on starting the mother of Holy Wars by siding with Saudis & UAE, in spite of the fact that Saudis are as guilty of sponsoring terrorists as Iran is.
Trump's childish, petulant act in unilaterally breaking our word and walking away from the Iran Nuclear Deal is responsible for this sorry state of affairs and he owns this mess now.
4
Let's remember that the oil tankers that were attacked were not bringing oil to the United States (as if that were a reason to start a war). In other words, the recipient countries aren't even ratcheting up the military response. Only the US, acting as a global policeman for reasons likely related to Saudi and UAE oil profits. Once again, we have learned nothing from history. Sad.
4
I believe there was a time when such incidents would have been discussed at the UN and world opinion meant something. Why couldn't that be a starting point in this case?
2
"From the U.S.S. Maine in Havana Harbor in 1898 to the U.S.S. Maddox in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964, maritime incidents, shrouded in the fog of uncertainty, have lured the United States into wars" that the U.S. was itching to get into all along. Nothing says "America" like a pointless war against a misunderstood foreign "Other."
4
"Linking Al Qaeda to a despotic Middle East regime was exactly the pretext that the George W. Bush administration used ... It would insult the intelligence of every American for the Trump administration to attempt the same gambit." Well, maybe the intelligence of every OTHER American. As The Times has often noted, over 40% of American voters STILL support Donald Trump (and over 80% of Republican voters). And in a time of war, most Americans choose to support its leaders' military actions, however transparently false the grounds for such action may be. And with a presidential election year coming up, odds are 10 to 1 that, all too soon, we will be involved in another war.
4
The chief reason we withdrew from the nuclear deal with Iran and are manning up for battle is that the Saudis, Emiratis, and Israelis want us to suppress the Shiites for them.
This ancient conflict should be resolved by another way. We help neither side by maintaining their ancient feuds.
6
Islam never went through a Reformation. Demand Islam modernize or use the CIA to back secular rebel leaders to take over these savage nations. Free the oppressed women and secure the oil flow through the gulf. The world will be a better place is Islam reforms as did the other two major religions.
The Republican Senate hasn't yet demonstrated that they have the backbone to stand up to Trump, why would they grow one now?
7
Do we need to be reminded that Iran has a say in the matter? It not only feels betrayed by the termination of the Nuclear Treaty and imposition of new sanctions, it was betrayed. Who in their right mind rips up treaties without any attempt at renegotiation and diplomacy?
Iran will defeat Trump just like it defeated Carter.
Trump and his war hawks are no match for the asymmetrical cunning and nerve of the Iranians. Iran will also splinter US allies and create fissures in the Fox News echo chamber.
Trump thinks he can get out of the mess he created except Iran won't let him.
6
This upcoming war will be the third unnecessary war in my lifetime, after Vietnam and Iraq. Ever since we overthrew the elected government of Iran in the 1950s and installed a brutal dictator, we have wanted to mess with Iran, now with a 20-year drumbeat for war. Why?
6
On 28 June, senior officials from Iran, Russia, China, France, Germany and Britain will meet in Vienna to discuss the Iran nuclear deal, known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA).
The officials will look at ways to address challenges arising from the withdrawal and re-imposition of sanctions by the United States on Iran with the intention of ensuring the continued implementation of the JCPOA in all its aspects, according to the EU.
So what does this tell us about the current US-Administration's "politics" and unilateral actions? And above all, where does it lead to?
3
Latest Trump tweet says it all about our... strategery.
Ignoring that he doesn't spell "sites" correctly ("sights"), he says that they were 10 minutes away from air strikes when he asked a general about casualties. How is it possible that the Commander-in-Chief only asked about casualty numbers that deep into the process?
I know that he's just doing his usual brinksmanship, where at the last second he "fixes" the problem that he started in the first place. But to me he's just broadcasting ineptitude, indecisiveness and a complete lack of thinking anything through.
For all we know, he cancelled the air strikes because it was getting close to the weekend, and he didn't want to call off his golfing. By Monday, the air strikes might be back on.
2
The Republican Party has lost touch with common sense, ethical values, the American people, and the World.
3
This is the sum of all fears: a complex foreign policy situation that requires nuance, flexibility, and long-term thinking being handled by Donald Trump, John Bolton and Mike Pompeo. It is criminal that Bolton, after his disastrous contributions to the endless and catastrophic wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, would be back in any position of authority. He was wrong, then, about everything. There is no reason to think he’ll get it right now. I fear this will end badly.
4
War is not a campaign strategy. Speak out. Say no to war with Iran.
Vietnam was the first war to gain my attention. The draft was foremost in the mind of every teen aged boy.
My number in the lottery was 320. I knew I wasn't going. The peace accord was signed in early 1973 effectively ending the war. What did we accomplish? Nothing, other than over 50,000 deaths of our young men.
In our wars or "skirmishes" since then, what can one point to as a success? A lasting change anywhere?
Wars enrich those already wealthy. Who do you think owns the war machine and the influence machine?
Those of us opposed to war for political purposes will always stand and always be counted. We have history on our side.
6
I've phoned and followed with an email to all my representatives that I do not support any military confrontation with Iran.
I reminded them that John Bolton is again hoping for yet more death and destruction, and ended the emails that I would like to see both Bolton and Trump jailed.
Would that the last were possible.
3
The problem is "attacking Iran" doesn't exist. Does that matter? Or is the narrative enough to warrant criticism?
Excellent editorial. Too bad our president, Donald J. Trump, likely won't read it.
How sad is it that our best hope to get through to Mr, Trump and to counter the warmongering advice of Bolton, Pompeo, and Tom Cotton is that certain celebrities on Fox News are not in favor of going to war against Iran?
https://truthout.org/articles/bolton-and-pompeo-are-trying-to-start-another-forever-war/It may well be true Trump does not want a real war with Iran--at the moment.
This Trump manufactured Iranian crisis, however, is instructive and serves as one of many examples of Trump's seriously flawed, delusional decision-making style that makes him cognitively and emotionally unfit as well as highly dangerous as President of the United States.
In stark contrast to Abraham Lincoln whom Trump likes to compare himself to, Trump seeks no expertise or informative input, and he impulsively makes terrible decisions without ever anticipating the consequences or possible alternative options.
At best, Trump's improbable presidency can be treated as a wake-up call to the many flaws in the functioning of our government. As this editorial urges, making sure we only go to war with congressional approval is one improvement. Having more checks on executive power of the president is another, as is making it crystal clear that no president is ever above the law.
But don't count on the Republican Party to do a darn thing to fix what is structurally broken in our political system.
2
Trump has no political objective or strategy for war, nor does he have a strategy for peace. He is acting instinctively, applying max pressure until the other side blinks. It brought North Korea and Mexico to the negotiating table, but the end result in both cases was the continued status quo. Iran has stated Trump’s 12 demands and economic embargo are the equivalent of regime change and an attack on Iran’s sovereignty, and they will fight rather than yield. Regardless of the Iranian regime’s policies toward its people and in the region, they are the rational actors defending their most basic interests. Trump’s brinksmanship will not lead to negotiations but to war.
3
"a crisis in credibility"? Credibility and Donald Trump do not exist on the same plane. Never have. He also began a trade war (on many fronts, as is his confrontational style) with the promise that they are easy to win. Not so far. As to his "advisors" Pompeo and Bolton- the only advisor Trump listens to is Putin.
3
Trump will do or say anything to be (re)elected. If he really even stopped any attack at all it was probably because he thought the political bump he'd get by being a "wartime president" would have worn off before the election. We need to be ready for different responses as he and his campaign heat up. I'm extremely concerned for our country and the world.
1
The order of the – albeit aborted – targeted strikes on certain facilities sent a powerful message to Iran. It remains to be seen whether the hardliners in Tehran would push further to test America’s resolve.
But Trump’s pull back also provokes criticisms from hawks at home, who (including Trump himself) mocked Obama’s dithering in August 2013, when the “deadline” in Syria was crossed.
It seems that Trump – obsessed with the desire to dismantle Obama’s 2015 legacy and the ambition to build his own – is eager to reach out to Iran’s leaders. It’s a pity that they – unlike Kim Jong-un – are either incapable or unwilling to stroke Trump’s ego.
As long as the narcissist-in-chief believes in writing history, he might avoid going to war with Iran, to the dismay of Bolton, Pompeo, Netanyahu and the Saudi Crown Prince MBS.
If Tehran resists Trump’s approach, he could feel humiliated and become belligerent. As long as Iran and the US don’t resort to diplomacy, tensions are here to stay. The region is ready a tinderbox. Another war will benefit no-one – including Israel and Saudi Arabia.
2
Were there no lessons learned in Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, or Libya? Or in Central and South America about the perils of regime change? What was that definition of insanity, something like doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome?
5
The U.S. could find a reason or excuse to start a war with Lichtenstein.
And Congress would back it.
And the Press would equate both sides of the argument.
11
I'm not sure any other Republican President would have called off an attack when there are small number of casualties. I believe this may have been more of a measured response then the media gives him credit for. Most of us do not want war either so an equally proportionate response is the best outcome. If you want to show compassion for human life and also carry a big stick then wait till they are not looking and take out a piece of infrastructure.
2
If we want to stop Israel, the Saudis et al, our warhawks and the oil interests (a formidable brew,) from attacking Iran, impeach Trump NOW.
5
I think it was Putin who told Trump to step back.
15
@Virginia It's time to stop blaming Putin for everything--at some point, it's like finding fault in the stars. We made our own presidential mess.
@Edward. I'm not blaming anyone. I don't see where blame is even a matter here. I'm saying, I think Trump's bluster and irrational hatred and envy of Barack Obama got him into this mess and he (again) needed a way out and to save face, and I suspect Putin guided him out. As for blame, I blame the GOP and the Americans who voted for this incompetent, dangerous fool.
1
Has everyone gone insane, including the NYT? The paper is presenting this lunacy as as it were a scene from Seven Days in May.
We sent an unmanned surveillance drone over Iran. They shot it down. What were they supposed to do, leave it to surveil? And now all the drama starts, feverish meetings with military brass all day - inbetween Trump's golf game and his TV time with Fox and Friends - and now we're all talking "strikes" and "ratcheting it up?"Seriously - don't these people have anything better to do?
Absolutely asinine. This idiocy cannot continue.
12
Puzzling to me why so many herein think Trump wants war.
Everything he’s done from NE Asia to Iran has been designed to avert war. He’s gone after their pocketbook instead to apply pressure to modify their behavior.
You know, unlike the sainted Barack Obama and his crack foreign policy team that drew feckless and stupid red lines and delivered plane loads of cash to the Mullahs in the middle of the night.
(And, yes Democrats, it was Iran’s money but only an appeasing Democrat would’ve given it back to that malevolent Mullah regime.)
6
@EGD
Their judgment is completely blinded by animus. They have conjured an image of Trump that they respond to over and over again. It's the same every time. They don't mind being wrong because it feels so right, one assumes.
3
It's amusing to read that the NY Times is now ending its support for the Obama Doctrine (doing whatever he feels like, whenever he feels like it). Remember Libya ("we came, we was, he died"), Syria (red line, no red line), and advisors in various African countries? All Congress's job, and all usurped by Obama.
6
@ulysses. So, your learned argument is, "Well, Obama did it, too?". That excuse hasn't worked with lifetimes of Moms, and it doesn't fly now. Do you have any other relevant comment?
If only Biden were in charge. After meeting with the Ayatollah and hugging him, we would just go in there even if we had to murder millions of men and women in Iran. Of course after it was all over we would try to get along with the survivors.
2
One dark night when we were all in bed , old mother Donald left the lantern in the shed and when the cow kicked it over he winked his eye and said ,: " There'll be a hot time in the old town tonight!" Fire! Fire! Fire!
1
Somehow I think, if Hillary had won, the NY Times would not be arguing she should cede the power of the Commander in Chief--to Congress. Why is it different for Trump--because you hate him?
4
@Jesse The Conservative
You're missing the bigger picture with your petty argument.
3
@Jesse The Conservative You are very misguided. It is Congress's power to declare war, not the Commander in Chief's. The Commander in Chief can guide the execution of that war once it is authorized by Congress.
@Andrew Wohl, suddenly all Liberals want to follow the Constitution. Again, if Hillary was president, you'd all be glowing about what a tuff leader we elected.
My comment was about media bias, more than anything.
Oh yes!! The United States should surely listen to the NYT Editorial Board on issues of diplomacy and war. A quick look at the educational and work backgrounds of the NYT Editorial Board reveals their qualifications. Degrees in journalism and political science. No discernible military experience. No work experience in anything relevant at all.
Please keep edifying us with your wisdom. Perhaps you can all get together over a latte in Brooklyn this weekend and solve this conundrum. Then go shopping for the latest gender fluid fashions.
8
@Red And the Donald's qualifications are...? How ironic your comment is. Trump voters elected him despite his lack of qualifications and in fact probably because of his lack of qualifications. And oh yes, the NYTimes is exercising its right (and all Americans) right to free speech. Trump, his military advisers and aides can choose to listen or not.
2
In reply to Red Cleveland
Your post made me laugh out loud. Please post
more on the NYT website. We need more levity. The Editorial Board needs it too.
Oh yes, we should have all military decisions made only by military people, so as to assure that the predominant view is to see every problem requiring a nail, since we only have hammers.
1
At least at this moment, Mr. Trump seems to have the coolest head in the administration. I hope he keeps it. And I hope he dumps Bolton soon.
3
Attacking Iran is not an option. They are not a threat to us. This is all about AIPAC trying to hijack our country. That's it.
8
Nothing like starting a war in a bid for re-election...meanwhile there are 5900 US troops at the Mexican border...meanwhile Gallagher disrespects the Navy SEALS and every citizen of this country with the crimes he committed in the name of war...all happening with the warmongers 45, Bolton, Pompeo, Cotton leading the cheering section.
5
A drone? Just a drone? You're going to order air strikes over a drone? That is not a measured response.
Pokes you in the eye, calls you violent when you try to defend yourself. Ridiculous premise.
2
Oh yes, and something else: one drone down that cost $130,000,000. Raytheon will build another and it’s stock will go up. Capitalism usurping democracy for crass profit!
2
@James Wright, Northrup Grumman built the drone. Don't obsess over the money. For DoD that's not even a rounding error.
May the eagle fly higher than the hawks.
5
Just like 2003 – IT'S ALL ABOUT THE OIL!
5
It's Cheney and Rumsfeld all over again.
9
Just gotta love that Republican know-how.
1
"Lawmakers must weigh in."
Yeah, right. The sorry fact is that for the better part of the last 40 years, Centrist/Moderate/Neoliberal Democrats in the House and Senate have been just as war crazy as their Republican counterparts.
Stop pretending otherwise. You're insulting our intelligence.
2
Hmm, looks like you condemned the president prematurely.
If your reporting is accurate, he called off a heavy handed response at this time.
I'll look for the retraction and apology in tomorrow's paper.
4
@Norville T Johnson
NYT shows it's Trump derangement again and again and again...They will never retract or apologize.
1
George W Bush should have done this, before he left office, Iran is a rouge country, it has been fingering America for a long time, its high time they are taught a lesson.
@VEE, really, GW-- the one that invaded afghanistan and iraq for no good reason, who in fact lied about WMD as the excuse for the latter. Who didn't even try to capture or kill bin laden, who actually was responsible for 9/11. GW who through this unfunded couple of wars and his hands-off attitude towards a sickening economy let it all come to a crash? That guy, you are now suggesting should have take out Iran? Even GW knew by the end of his 8 years that he had been a terrible president. He consoles himself now by quietly painting.
1
talking about grown up Republican law makers, yet to see one, no one even to whisper, "emperor, you have No clothes on", oh please!
The world does not believe the USA when it says "Iran attacked the ships."
Why?
- Lying Trump.
- Lying Pompeo.
- Lying Bolton.
- Weapons of Mass Destruction blatant lies ,casing untold slaughter and destruction.
- Trump is Netanyahu's puppet.
People won't allow this again.
6
Put Jared and Ivanka in uniform, and send them. Now, please.
9
Thank heavens we do not live in a country governed by The Editorial Board.
2
So Trump was so adamantly against the Iraq war that he brought one of it's biggest architects, Bolton, into his orbit. Seems healthy...
4
The little handed guy who cries wolf will get into trouble.
I know it’s written in history!
That’s what this president was told!
It is idiocy to expect congress to play a meaningful role in this conflict.... the dimocrats have only one mission... oppose anything President Trump proposes. Furthermore, Iran could nuke NYC and the dimocrats would oppose a resolution endorsing use of force as they are in mortal fear of their base accusing them of supporting the Use of Military Force.
1
If we've learned anything in the last two-and-a-half years, it's that Trump is an unfortunate soul consumed with childish, petty and often imaginary hatreds. What used to be a basis for honest disagreement and productive debate has been tragically reduced to shallow name-calling and "You disagree? Poo-poo on you. So there." We are now confronted with the application of those politics on an international stage. I don't thinks that's going to play out very well. If our drone as in Iran's airspace, they had a legitimate basis for downing it, particularly in light of Trump's bellicose threats. But this guy? "Well, let's start a war because, because... well... poo poo on you!"
1
Call your Senators & Representatives and tell them you do not want this. Make it clear. Most of the country is against it. Only the hard core know nothings want to have a major war. They have to forcibly speak .. call them .. I just did ...
2
It was easy to walk away from the nuclear deal - made for great soundbites.
However, the reality was the deal was working.
This tension is completely self inflicted by Trump and the war hawks in his cabinet. Being influenced by regional actors who are against Iran is not fulfilling US interests, its fulfilling those actors interests.
The fact that the chief US diplomat is pushing for open conflict and the military generals are advocating restraint is telling .
7
This is purely Trump's doing and could have been avoided had he not pulled out of the nuclear agreement, imposed harsh sanctions, and used threatening language toward Iran. Some commenters have stated that Trump wants to start another conflict so he can win in 2020, and that may be so, but I think it's more basic than that. Trump wants to appear tough while he is weak, that he alone is in control, while he is not, and that he is decisive, but is actually swayed by Bolton and others around him toward aggression. He needs a "victory" to salve his fragile ego, but at the cost of others' lives. We have a hurricane in the White House, and it will destroy everything in its path.
3
Any of these war hawks who want to go to war with Iran (or anyone) need to be the first to head to the front lines. And/or their children, too. I vote that we somehow get that included in the Constitutional directive that Congress be the one to decide. You know, the law the war hawks have been ignoring since Vietnam.
This is not a game, but these "adults" in Washington don't seem to know it.
1
I do think Trump is aware of how Iran's actions ended up wrecking Jimmy Carter's presidency and contributed greatly to his humiliating defeat in the 1980 election. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Carter himself has privately advised Trump not to get bogged down in a confrontation with Iran.
We are still struggling to take care of the veterans and their families suffering physically, mentally or financially from the on-going wars. Politicians need to mitigate hardship of veterans and their families before starting another war.
I knew some sort of disaster would come when Trump appointed Bolton to his current position. Uh oh, I thought. And, sure enough, the president who campaigned against our endless wars is busy cooking up another one. We have absolutely no business being in Iran, or any conflict in the Middle East, and every one of our incursions there - some still ongoing - have ended in disaster and death. At a cost of over a trillion dollars a year, our tragic, endless wars may well spell the end of our nation as we know it.
351
But we’ll be rich in oil
3
@Ellen Authorizing a military strike/starting a war against Iran (in response to ship & drone damage) without Congressional consultation & approval violates the constitution. Just one more impeachable offense.
43
@joemcph
"Just one more impeachable offense".
If only. Nancy Pelosi seems to be missing in action.
7
Whether we "attack" anyone is Congress's call. All modeling will inform those who think rationally that an attack on Iran is going to be counterproductive. Obama achieved stability, and put a nuclear armed Iran to bed without a shot being fired.
Great statesmen and courageous patriots like Obama and Kerry know that war is almost never a solution and have used diplomacy whenever possible to help build a stable region, stable markets and long term predictable continuity and stable social fabric.
The Bannon, Putin, Mercer, Farage, Trump, Brexit (move as many people to a fascists paradigm) strategy to undermine global cooperation, trade, long term alliances that were forged in battle of World War II in the battle to save freedom and democarcy, is having its intended consequence and Boltin and the neocons seem intent on creating global chaos.
The continuing efforts of administration to provoke a war by cancelling the anti-nuclear agreement with Iran and harming their poorest citizens through this massive sanctions plan is only hurting kids and mothers.
The solution almost anywhere is to provide food, education, and great mediation, listening, compassion and cooperation.
The old ways of old and hard set minds like Bolton are not going to work in today's world.
Much of mainstream media and the 24x7 propaganda network for Republicans are all quietly building the drum beat for war (as they always do), even when the wars are based on lies. Truth = real journalism
3
After 10,000 documented lies, we are now supposed to believe Trump's statements on Iran? Why? Because U.S. "intelligence" says so? How can he and those working for him ask us to trust the intelligence, when Trump has also spent the last 2 years attacking and undermining the U.S. intelligence community's conclusions on Russian interference in our elections?
2
We have a TWITTER commander who has most of his rants either incomplete of completely wrong.
Again, he had to inject President Obama's payment to Iran as the reason the middle eastern country was willing to sign the nuclear agreement.
The $ 150 million had been frozen abroad and they were Iran funds.
1970, Iran payed $ 400 million for military equipment that was never delivered because the country was overthrown.
It would be interesting for history purposes for all of us to understand the workings of government.
We all need lessons of the past, that bring us here and now and we'll understand the WHY.
4
Trump realized Hope Hick's testimony wasn't as devastating as he thought it might be so he called off the diversion. Better to save it for another day.
2
I actually do believe that Trump did not want war. But I think he was far too confident in his powers of negotiation and persuasion. Trump had the delusion that he could redo the Iran deal, coming up with something much better than his predecessors had. He is, after all, a stable genius who knows more than the generals. He was going to make Obama and Kerry look silly for the pathetic deal they had negotiated, and we were all going to be tired of all the winning.
But, guess what? It turns out that Trump cannot do better than the career diplomats and military officials who have devoted their lives to trying to understand and deal with Iran. In fact, Trump has made things much, much worse. And since his administration is devoid of any real foreign policy experts now -- because really, who needs them? -- we are all at the mercy of Bolton and Pompeo.
God help us.
470
@David
I think Trump is not actually interested in negotiation at all. He is interested in bullying and winning. He assumes he can throw America's weight around and have his way.
66
@Jan Priddy. Negotiations are about leverages and Obama did not use any leverage that U.S. has over Iran.
1
@David
Unfortunately, "God" won't. And "God" won't stop climate change, either.
5
Every time I read about yet another military veteran committing suicide after having served in a combat zone it becomes more and more inconceivable to me that the US would ever consider entering into another war. I realize that there are situations (e.g. WWII) when war is absolutely necessary however given the enormous toll combat action takes on our service members it should always, ALWAYS be the very last option.
I simply cannot understand why any government official would ever desire armed conflict.
5
Conspiracy theories are as prevalent in Iran as here and with Bolton adding fuel to their fire, it's little wonder that smoke would appear in the skies. Trump has rattled their cage for months, so Iran is very defensive for self-preservation. Of course, these are Russian missiles and, guess what, we don't know Putin's involvement in the stand down.
When Trump withdrew alone from the Iranian nuclear halt agreement, we left with no bargaining chips on the table. Now, Trump could invoke NATO Article 5, an attack against one is an attack against all, bringing further sanctions against Iran from our allies, but great minds are scarce in the Administration.
Trump's immediate response... we won't tell you, fails the Commander-in-Chief test. It seems to be a confusing time at the top levels of the Executive branch, no surprise there.
Fortunately for America, Congress is there to weigh-in, which may save the day, today.
1
I'm concerned quality of products/services many, probably most, of American defense contractors are doing. This drone costed ~$130 million & "was developed to evade the very surface-to-air missiles used to bring it down", as reported NY Times. Most of America's defense manufacturing are done by huge companies with even bigger political lobbying arms like Boeing, which makes 737 Max & self-certified it only to erode global credibility of quality & certification system of USA. These private manufacturers claim all sorts of things that their machines/technology/services clearly never had, besides charging far more than it otherwise should. It seems to fall in a pattern about decline of quality of American research & products for last many years.
It was already bad before Trump came to the office as defense budget was ballooning, despite of our inability to fulfill stated objectives for almost any war since Vietnam. Current administration seems to rely more of military than diplomacy, which is known to be far more effective to promote our national interest & security and at a far cheaper price.
Most of Trump's advisers & cabinet members r frm those big corporations and lobbing groups. Trump is more than willing to accommodate such people that increase profits for such corporations. His entire policy realm revolves around money than national security & interest of common Americans- be it immigration, or trade disputes/wars, military preparedness, or war adventures abroad.
3
I think "war with Iran" is a misnomer. More accurately it will be "bombardment of Iran". There won't be any US boots on the ground. We will not risk American lives. Cruise missiles and drones can reign enough death and destruction to satisfy our blood lust, while not inhibiting our domestic shopping and social media activities.
As long as it's "over-there" we can not only live with the bombardment , but pretty much ignore it. We've proven time and again that no amount of collateral damage can soften our stiff upper lip.
223
@sherm
It’s easy to imagine the Trump crew coming up with a grotesque euphemism like ‘shock and awe’ to sell a brutal campaign in Iran.
26
@sherm -- "More accurately it will be "bombardment of Iran". There won't be any US boots on the ground."
That is the US wish.
Iran gets a vote. There will be ground combat if Iran attacks on the ground. There will be combat wherever Iran chooses to respond.
Whatever Iran decides, it will be what they judge the US would least like.
39
@sherm, we lose wars against folks that know the jungles. We lose wars against people who know the mountains. Now we are looking at very well-trained foe. We have a president who loves the word “win.” He, who lost a casino, is thinking of winning a war.
72
Don't worry, you won't get a war. You will get some cruise missiles photogenically destroying some Iranian military equipment. And maybe a human or two. A made for TV reality show.
And the American people will again confuse:
Macho with bravery
Presidential impulsivity with decisiveness
Narcissism with confidence
Submission to extortion with respect
And finally, ceasefire with peace
336
@Doctor A, there has never been peace in the Middle East, what makes you think there will be peace this time?
1
While the attack may be limited to missile strikes, remember that Iran has the capability to respond - perhaps against a soft target - thereby invoking a reciprocal US response and so on.
3
A few people mentioned that a couple of Trump's minions of evil had military experience. That doesn't guarantee sanity. George A. Patton was a truly great general, but at the end of WWII he was asking the American High Command in Europe to consent to his invasion of the Soviet Union. This was asked after there were 400,000 American deaths in WWII and 710,000 wounded. Casualties reached 1,100,000 and Patton wanted more dead and wounded. That is a true example of military thinking, which is why we don't leave decisions to our military, except of course Trump has been doing just that. Good luck to us staying out of war.
3
Trump is the quintessential definition of the word “inept”. His lack of experience coupled to his belief that his “gut” has better answers than intelligence services is truly sobering.
James Clapper, the former Director of National Intelligence, is quoted saying about Trump’s campaign that they were “...essentially aiding and abetting the Russians”.
Trump stumbles into one misstep after another, the latest bringing us to war with Iran. Our nation’s policies are a series of bumbling, knee jerk reactions in succession. Instead of addressing & consulting congress, the nation’s stratagem is released in erratic Tweets with contradictory meanings.
Aided and abetted by two right wing Neocons who make Dick Cheney look like a pacifist, Trump threatens war and annihilation on nations who refuse to knuckle under to his ever changing demands.
Whether the Titanic known as America can dodge the many icebergs Trump willy-nilly tosses about has been reduced to a matter of prayer. Impeach now!
5
People who have no understanding of war are running this country. A draft dodger, war hawks who never served a day and are failed administrators but in this administration they are gods.
The votes for the last war, even to this day politicians have account for their vote and the country has never forgotten the lies of the 18 year war except this new administration.
We can't get involved in another endless war, we have no plan, why are we going to war? we have no allies left, why did we deliberately get out of President Obama treaty? what was it replaced with nothing but more sanctions?
This con man just wants to help his reelection campaign because he has no policies, but stupid endless words that mean nothing.
The next election can not come soon enough. He is killing people by his ignorance and yes trolls, people do not want another war, just like we don't want children in cages, just like we feel for the Japanese people in regards to N.Korea The voting public is questioning this president's sanity and his love affair with the Russians, Saudis and the rest of the dictators in the world.
4
Once again, where is Mitch McConnell?
5
Most likely incognito with his wife making money in some cheesy scheme.
1
Trump cannot unilaterally declare war on anyone. The war powers of our government are split between the Congress and the executive branch. We have checks and balances for exactly this scenario.
You think shooting down a drone is an affront? Wait until the Iranian mullahs call Trump a "little man." Then wait for the bombs to start falling.
2
@Jasphil
Our Constitution's famous "checks and balances" were always just an illusion. Presidential democracies are terrible systems that easily slide into dictatorships. We were lucky in the US because in the past our respect for democracy protected us from the fate of so many other Presidential democracies modelled on our own. But that respect is dead. The Constitution, a flawed document that creates and even more flawed system of government, won't save us. On the contrary, it will accelerate our fall.
1
I have personally witnessed the effects of sanctions on a nation that assisted the U.S. in defeating Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, and which fought Al Nusra and ISIS in Syria and Iraq.
But we live in an Orwellian world in which black is white, and in which foreign policy is decided by psychopaths, billionaire lobbyists and their fake news channels.
U.S. foreign policy is purely destructive, while Iran's leaders are described even by their enemies, and even at the height of Ahmadinejad's atrocious presidency, as 'rational':
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/153590
I hope there is no war, because the Iranian regime, deprived by the world of weapons during the 1980 invasion by U.S. 'ally' Saddam Hussein, has spent the past 4 decades building up its defences. It will be no easy battle. Pentagon war games in 2010 concluded that any U.S. ships in the Persian Gulf would be sunk within minutes of a full scale war. That's 10,000 brave soldiers and sailors -- 1/6 of the total U.S. fatalities in a decade long assault on Vietnam -- all within literally minutes.
And Trump will blame Obama. Whom else?
I sincerely hope cooler heads will prevail over those of the U.S. War Machine.
3
Trump and his warmonger friends (Bolton, yes, and Pompeo perhaps, but also the military-industrial complex) are trying to shoot first...and ask questions 'later'. Are they, by choking off Iran economically, manufacturing a crisis, and then deflating the hysteria, so Trump may aspire to a Noble Peace Prize? Ugh!!!
3
The GOP, based on its misinformation campaigns about Iraq, wants to lie us into yet another war.
2
As I recall, the Times wasn't preaching this precaution to war prior to the invasion of Iraq. So much for principles and the press.
2
"he (DT) shows little sign of having learned " this could have been the headline.
3
This article and comments are moot because cooler heads did prevail! The drone most likely wasn’t in international air space just like most of these comments weren’t !
My neighbor has a drone. He hovers it up to our property-line and lets it hang there. I swear someday I’m gonna get a shotgun. Treat that flying robot to a blast of #9 squirrel killer. Things could then escalate. He'd call the cops. And I’d have to go rogue. Maybe, declare myself to be a Free Citizen or join an outlaw biker gang. Yeah. There'd be a stand-off in the desert. I’d have to lose. I mean look at their firepower. But it won't be just me heading to the crematorium. No. I promise to go out in glory and take some of them with me. Things might return to normal for a while. Or even get better. My wife could marry the man of her dreams. Of course, it wouldn’t be over; because later some of my biker pals are gonna get angry and come looking for payback. All-in-all this game of chicken strategy that can only lead to a messy conclusion. But it seems to be the best our political masters can manage. Maybe we could have talked it out. O. If only I wasn’t such a hothead. Yeah, well. If only he wasn’t such a permanent pain in the butt.
Incidentally. Can anyone tell me? Are we at war or not. I'd kind of like to know. What a way to run a country.
1
A country doesn’t need congressional approval, when it is a dictatorship and has a cowardly, spines-less upper house!
3
The biggest concern about war with Iran is the fact that Obama was playing on Team Tehran for his entire presidency, if not his entire life
1
@Larry
The biggest concern is that Donald Trump is almost pathological in doing everything to downplay or abrogate every legislation accomplished by the Obama administration -- regardless of the consequences. PERIOD.
"It’s now President Trump who faces a crisis in credibility..."
Donald Trump is a living, breathing credibility crisis.
9
"Look over here! A nice, shiny, loud distraction from my criminal behavior!"
7
@Bronwyn, give it a few days; this Iran debacle may be added to Trump's list of crimes.
1
The worst cabinet choice Trump may have made, and most of them have been awful, is Bolton, who has never met an armed conflict he didn't like. Someone may be whispering in Trump's ear that striking Iran and putting us at war will be the ultimate distraction from the cloud of corruption he is under and the history has been to re-elect a president in the middle of a war. And since self-protection is Trump's MO, I fear that war with Iran is more probable than not.
3
The only ones talking about "attacking Iran" are Trump's critics. They have created a false narrative and are now furiously criticizing it. Trump's position on war are very clear. He doesn't want it. If only his critics were openminded enough to hear it.
@AACNY the latest news this morning belies your commentary- they were ten minutes away from killing 150 Iranians, before Trump pulled back. What makes you think he’s going to pull back next time? Because he says he doesn’t want war? He lies EVERY DAY, multiple times.
We have seen this coming. We are planning for it. We are setting it up so we can somehow justify using our bombs to show our superiority while innocent people will die. And what happens to the terrorist insurgency? What happens to the safety of our people? What happens to the perceptions and attitudes towards our country? It's an endless loop of sandbox idiocy. We simply have to stop acting like the United States of the World.
1
I don't think Trump cares who is supposed to make the call for war. He'll do what he wants, and we'll pay the consequences. There is no one to stop him.
2
I have to wonder how much money the Saudis are investing into Trump's and Jarrod's properties to induce Trump to spill American blood there in the Middle East. I am appalled that Trump is allowing military technology transfer to the country that gave us 911. Congress really needs to look into his finances to understand how much of US foreign policy is being driven by profiteering of Trump and his band of prevaricators.
3
So we're now treated to the bizarre spectacle of Iran trying to rally the international community to restrain the United States. Trump, Bolton and Pompeo are utterly isolated on Iran -- it isn't only our allies that don't support them, but Congress and the American people as well. Once again, Trump makes his big threats, only to discover later that he has no way to carry them out. We don't even have a Secretary of Defense, for heaven's sake! This incompetent, deceitful administration is completely impotent in foreign affairs -- when will Republicans recognize the danger this poses and accede to Trump's impeachment?
2
I've said it before, and it bears repeating. Diplomacy is dead in the United States, and Democracy has one foot in the grave.
With the State Department hollowed out, ambassadorships left unoccupied in crucial allied countries, and 'acting' officials in almost every government department, we are in grave danger.
Trump is like a rabid fox - he's cornered now, his instinct is to strike out. Too late for impeachment, the disease has taken hold. It's up to McConnell and the GOP to do the humane thing and take Trump's power away for good.
1
Enough of Trump's shredding of the Constitution and violating his oath of office to preserve, protect and defend it. The Democrats should take the lead on this and make it clear that Trump needs to go to Congress now for approval to go to war with Iran before he can fall back on some self-instigated incident to justify a phony defensive war, and that he will be impeached if he doesn't.
3
Not just cooler heads, smarter heads. The idea of Trump being Commander in Chief at any time is bad enough, but it would be terrifying in a crisis. There is every reason to have zero confidence in the man; he is erratic, inexperienced, narcissistic, immature, reactive, volatile and thoughtless. Shame on US voters for letting him get anywhere near the nuclear codes.
4
From everything I've read and heard, what is going on now is a direct restful of Trump ending Obama's deal with Iran, that this would not be happening if Trump and left the deal in place. We all know that Trump undid that deal for the sole reason that he is a personal and irrational hatred for Obama due to Obama's State of the Union jabs at Trump and no doubt Obama's popularity. So consider this: people could actually die now and our military sent into action (already are) because of Donald Trump's ego. The only thing, in fact, that continues to shock me is the size, metastatic reach, and suffocating extent of Donald Trump's ego.
3
Time for a war. Time for Trump to get reelected. Time for more tax cuts for the rich.
Lather, rinse, and repeat.
2
It should be a requirement that any new wars be paid for with a tax increase on corporations and the wealthy. That would put a stop this nonsense immediately.
3
"It would insult the intelligence of every American for the Trump administration to attempt the same gambit."
Given what Trump gets away with on a regular basis, it's questionable whether there's much intelligence to insult.
3
People, relax! We need another war to keep the military industrial complex working at full employment. It's good old fashioned red-state socialism - similar to white farmer socialism, or corporate no-tax socialism. Which is kind of ironic because I thought republicans hated socialism. No, they only hate democratic socialism.
3
Everyone has known for years that every time Bolton speaks, it is about starting a war. It's fine for him. Neither he nor anyone close to him, his relatives,as exapmles would serve - nor would any of Trump's.
3
Asian countries import oil from the gulf. So, where do Asians get oil safely? If no safety continues, it may be needed to improve the technology to transform coal to oil; no joke.
Mr. Trump and Mr. Bolton are a terrifying team.
What is Mr. Pence's view of the move towards war?
Would any of this trio wish to risk their lives or those of their children or grandchildren in such a war?
3
Putin doesn't just want higher oil prices, he needs them. Iran might well be Trump's way of pleasing the man who probably has him by the short hairs. But Putin doesn't want a war to break out in the region, so Trump is not likely to precipitate one.
Regarding claims of the drone's actual location, be sceptical. Even if the US is telling the truth, we may nonetheless have invited the shoot-down by fooling Iranian radar into thinking "legitimate target."
I’ll make it simple. Don’t go to war. Cite me a war the US has gotten into since 1941 that was justified. None.
2
Well, here we are again on the precipice of another Middle Eastern War brought to us by the same crowed that got us involved in the the 2003 invasion of Iraq and messed up the war in Afghanistan. America's foreign policy credibility before the American people and the world is moribund to say the least. How often can these policy makers fail before we bring them to account. The problem is that they have been able to trug along without consequences for so long, no body holds the military or hawks responsable for their repeated failures. In a sense the American people have been able to escape the consequences of a failed American foreign policy as well.
Perhaps if all of use had to pay a price for these adventures there would be a more critical evaluation of what we are doing. Lets start by ridding ourselves once and for all of Bolton and his crew. Let's impose a high war tax on the average tax payer and business to pay for all of these wars. Lets bring back the draft and fill the military with citizen soldiers who don't really want to run off to the Middle East and die.
You see once you impose a real cost presidents and policy makers tend to be more caustious about engeering trouble in far off places.
1
Congress long ago handed the war powers to the President. I don't believe they are ever getting them back.
While the Editorial Board's critiques of Trump's folly are well researched and well-written, it is disturbing to me that the Times never discusses Citizens United, the Supreme Court decision that allows billionaires to tell Trump what to say.
2
This is surreal. And it's been surreal since Trump became a candidate … and then won the election with 3 million FEWER votes than the other candidate. We KNOW this emperor has no clothes but the Republican party leadership just, simply, is too busy lining their own pockets to confront him. We KNOW he's not capable of being a responsible President, but we enable him in all of his insanity. We're all walking into the propeller of history's plane like dazed zombies. Trump's power is prescribed only by our willingness to let him have it. This is a democracy. And in a democracy the buck stops on each of our desks.
$130 million for a surveillance drone set all that needs to be said about the US military-industrial scam. Gotta have a war — any old war will do — to use up our bloated inventory of over-priced multi-million dollar munitions so we can buy some more.
1
We are here right now because too many in the media and in the Republican Party thought that Trump would surely pivot and become a responsible President if he got elected. I would hazard a guess that we wouldn't be having this particular conversation if Hillary Clinton were in the White House. Trump is responsible for this mess. He took us out of the Iran Nuclear Treaty. He slammed Iran with new killing sanctions. He has allowed Pompeo and Bolton to run their mouths and make threats. Trump has ordered ships and troops into the area. Trump has ordered drones to fly near Iran. Sadly, we are the aggressors here. Sadly, we have a commander in chief with no real experience, no knowledge, and advisors who want war and regime change. It's disastrous and anything could happen. And when it does, we own it.
2
It'd be nice if the US had a permanent boss at the Pentagon. No one would invest in a company with so much chaos at top levels. But our unfit, corrupt leader wants to play war.
Do you think that aggressive behavior likes sanctions and embargoes actually affect lives or do you think it is just a game with the US as the puppet master? Is there a day the US aid mot in a conflict in some part of the world? Do you think this is normal and do you thing this reflect well on the US?
Americans abhor war.
Since 9/11/01 a mere 0.75% of Americans have volunteered to wear the military uniform of any American armed force.
While the rest of pretend to be brave honorable patriots by rising to sing the national anthem and saluting the flag at sporting events.
American was late joining the fray in both World War I and II.
America didn't declare war in Korea or Vietnam.
America didn't declare war in either Afghanistan or Iraq.
An open- ended Authorization for the Use of Military Force is a clever corrupt cowardly euphemistic way for Congress to avoid going on record by debate and voting for a declaration of war or not.
The imperial presidency has msde Congress increasingly invisible and missing in action in taking care of it's most crucial duties and powers aka declaring war and raising money to pay for governmental operations and making policy choices.
3
I know this won't be printed because it is so contrary to the opinion of your board.
You know nothing of modern war between a superpower and terrorist state. Escalation is in control of the terrorist if we allow it. That means a massive, surgical strike against its opponent by the superpower then isolation by naval blockage. If the terrorist escalates then hostilities spin up from there. At a certain point, the terrorist and the superpower come to terms. We need a show of strength to prove we are not weak.
We've been fighting the Iranians for 40 years. Ask the troops who fought in Afghanistan and Iraq. We can expect to fight them for as long as we allow ready cash to flow to Iran while the same regime is in power.
How’d your prescription for fighting “terror states” work out in Afghanistan? Iraq? Syria? Guess we just needed a few more “shows of strength”. Laughable.
1
@Joe B.,
It's a war of attrition. It doesn't help when you make agreements with people that let's them catch their breath who are out to kill Americans: Iran stocked up and continued to terrorize the world thanks to Kerry's deal.
We won, initially, when we stuck to special forces in Afghanistan.
I was always against Iraq: Saddam was an annoyance not a threat. Syria was made worse by Obama's dabbling.
You get nowhere by comparing a war to past wars. Every situation is different. Iran is a sovereign, terrorist state. It's not going to put the country on wheels and move to another state.
The US has successfully fought terrorism to a standstill: it took 20 years to beat the Barbary Pirates.
This all so Orwellian. What makes anyone think that this all a “trumped up” effort to get into a war to increase the Republican’s chances of retaining the white house and remaking America with their judicial appointments, census shenanigans, and gerrymandering?
2
From the Washington Post:
"On Thursday, the European Union said officials from Germany, Britain, France, Russia, China and Iran would meet next week to discuss strategies to salvage the nuclear pact despite renewed U.S. sanctions and Tehran’s threat to exceed limits on its uranium stockpiles."
The world looks at the corrupt, bellicose US, shakes its collective head, and moves on without us.
2
Trump is bellicose, but not violent, which distinguishes him from a lot of nationalist leaders, but can still have frightening consequences. Trump's bellicosity is the theatrical world of movies or, especially sports, in which there are winners and losers, but in the end no one gets hurt. As with, say the Yankees/Red Sox, there is a feel good sense of winning, but not at the expense of other people getting hurt. Happily, when the bellicosity stops being mere theater or video game heroics, Trump is capable of backing down. This is good news.
I can only wonder what abuse he would be heaping on Hillary Clinton if she were President in this situation and the decision on pulling the trigger for a military strike were hers and not his. Think of all the claims he made about Obama's handling of North Korea and where he wound up when it was his turn to deal with it.
Investigations are coming closer. Trump is in full campaign mode and is gaining no ground.
No matter the evidence or lack of such, Trump will either wag the dog, or at least a puppy.
3
The comparison to the USS Maine and the USS Maddox is absurd. The NYT wants us to believe that modern technology cannot prove where the plane was shot down. President Trump has asked the Iranians to talk. They have refused.Despite that, he has exhibited a reluctance to respond militarily despite the Iranian provocations. Furthermore, the editors are naive to believe that Iran was not building up its nuclear capability prior to our leaving the agreement, an agreement that was ultimately contrary to the best interests of the free world. Iran is a fundamentalist terrorist state and most be dealt with accordingly.
1
Has it really only taken these very few years to bring the whole planet to this point? With nuclear bombs at the mercy of power crazed despots, the next “small” conflict can easily escalate to the big boom. In short order.
Act surprised everyone - Trump on the verge of war. Who could possibly have seen that coming? Now we must rally round the flag. After all, even the base will not want to die in a fake war.
1
I fail to see how Iran is threatening the United States.
This obsession with war has got to stop!
I think this is all pre-election drama that will be played for the attention of you-know-who. We're in another episode of watch me. He will be some kind of heroic character depending on the framing of the narrative. It has little to do with actually world dynamics. It's like being caught inside the old Beatle's tune I ME MINE. The sequence is an attention getting event, followed up by he who knows all things. Then we hear the refrain "I me me mine!"
2
I find these opinion articles conveniently put together by those who do not support whomever the current president is.
The War Powers Act has been around long enough to make these things seem trite, sorry. The author knows, the readers know, the President whether you like him or not, has the power to act in a certain capacity, and yes, that means attacking Iran is HIS call. Just like the use of force was Obama's call, etc. etc.
Anything else is just insulting the reader's intelligence.
War, should it come to that, yes, is the job of Congress. So is funding so you won't get far without that. That is for when the operation becomes one. You don't need to declare war to 'attack', all you need to do is shoot or bomb something, obviously. Maybe, therefore, people should pay a lot more attention who they vote for instead of ridiculously fist shaking at the sky talking about, 'Attacking Iran is Congress's Call!' It sounds like whining.
To me, this appears to be a re-election strategy. Exactly what we expect of trump. No thought of the impact on America, only what will make him look good to his sycophants. Impeach and Remove this useless, unqualified “man”.
2
President Trump does almost everything by instinct and impulse. He seems incapable of thinking anything through, and apparently has no interest in the complexities of history or in reasoned discussion.
Had he been president in 1962, there would likely have been a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Things could spiral out of control in the Middle East today, with devastating—even terminal—consequences worldwide.
Is that what Trump’s enablers in Washington are willing to risk? Is that what Trump’s “base” would tolerate as the price for having an in-your-face bully in the White House?
2
Criticism, and bizarre stories are the stuff the NY Times preaches since the Trump election. How have our prior leaders done ? The Johnson Administration lied about Vietnam, The Bush Admin about Iraq, Obama paid off Iran etc, All this talk of diplomacy being discussed is nowhere to be found. What we have today is too many analysts and not enough people who actually do work. Everything is over-over-analyized and bloviated by the press. Who can get eyeballs and people to listen and read. Congress will get to this after they investigate the Mueller Report, review all documents involving Trump's business dealings etc. Let's trust our safety to this Feckless Group ?
.This is the second time Iran has been aggressive towards the US military. The first time is when they boarded one of our Speed Boats & made our Sailors kneel in Surrender, & we never retaliated. The Shooting down of our Drone was another aggressive move towards us by Iran & still there is no retaliation.What is Trump afraid of, it can’t be of Iran’s Military.
Israel has shot down an Iranian Plane with no retaliation. Iran is a Puny country who couldn’t defeat Iraq.What does Iran have over Trump, that he is so hesitant to take Iran on? Is Russia involved in this ?Has Putin warned Trump of any escalation of American force?The Plot Thickens !
1
Cooler heads is right. Trump, Lindsey Graham and those other GOP blowhards now braying for war in Iran forget that the Iraq war urged by Bolton, Cheney et al achieved the type of regime change they didn't want. It replaced Saddam with a pro-Iranian regime in Iraq, just as our attempts to topple Assad in Syria have increased Russian and Iranian influence in that country. I hope the Joint Chiefs can convince Trump that the last thing he needs in the Middle East is to follow the advice of Bolton, Pompeo, Netanyahu and MBS.
1
The cowards in the US Congress and Senate need to stand up to the bully in the White House and his team of warhawks. The world does not need another confrontation in the Middle East. Endless war will not resolve most conflicts.
Yes we need cooler heads. All the players in the administration have lost theirs. Maybe the lost heads are in "Lost and Found"?
1
Yes, exactly!
Where the h__ in Congress in all of this? Just a few short years ago, we were assured by the phrase “checks and balances”. Now we know that they were an illusion.
Congress step up and do your job that the American taxpayers put you in office to do! Change the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force so the legislative branch has the final say in starting a war.
Well I blame Carter. But that’s old news. Now Trump has the wheel for better or worse. He doesn’t seem to know how to drive. But then again congress is no better. We have forgotten how to win wars. You crush the enemy with overwhelming odds, you decimate and demoralize. You take prisoners and occupy. War is never easy or pretty. Then you place your pick in control and never leave. Just like we did in Germany and Japan. Now look at them they are our friends. We could use some friends in that neck of the woods.
Trump isn't a warrior, he is simply a successful developer/builder turned President. Iran knows this and will push him hard as he doesn't like to destroy but create. Iran has found Trump's weakness and that is what could end up pushing us to war. The USA needs to react strongly to Iran's actions or else Iran will go over the line. Iran is lead by the radically religious mullahs and those types don't care how many people need to die for Allah.
DJT & Kushner and probably GOP has taken payment from Adelson & MBS; they're obliged to do their bidding. Unfortunately; our military and our brave men and women will do the job paid by for USA.
It's classic GOP scheme; privatize profit and socialize loss.. they have taken this to new level;
privatize lots of profit and socialize death.
Not surprisingly, the Editorial Board ignores the law in favor of ideological rants.
The law, allows the President to initiate hostilities, but then must seek congressional approval withing 90 days.
It has been that way for a long, long, time and utilized by Democrats as well as Republicans.
The Editorial Board, are hypocrites.
@Objectivist The law is wrong and makes Congress irrelevant.
Once the President starts a war, we can't "call it off" even if Congress does not approve. Congress vote is 90 days too late.
The war will go on.
I am afraid we are going to way of Rome, with a quasi imperial presidency and a legislative branch which has abdicated its role and functions in foreign policy and war.
The problem with that is that if the emperor is a capable one (Augustus, Hadrian, Trajan) all is well. But then things get hairy when we encounter Nero, Caligula, etc.
Bolton reminds me of Rasputin.
Please remind me what was wrong with the old treaty to limits Iran's nukes.
What is the crisis? Has Iran send misiles into US territories? Has Iran invaded an US satellite country? Why is the United States of America so keen to attack Iran? Is this to show US still relevant in the world? Why the US continues to bully Iran? North Korea has acted more belligerent towards the US, although Trump made effort to meet the young crazy dictator. Why the US acts differently towards Iran? Iran the biggest Muslim Shia country in the world, with humongous oil reserves... oh that must be the reason. Besides Iran made it very clear, its not friends with Israel and Saudi Arabia. Two other powerful reasons...
Your opinion headline says "we need cooler heads than Trump and the warhawk caucus." I would be happy if Trump actually had any kind of head, regardless of its temperature.
NYT: Thank you. Especially when it's manufactured. In horror, intelligent, concerned Americans view daily scenes of corruption, patriarchy, colonialism, unethical acts of disastrous policy decisions performed by the Trump Inc. cartel. Today, it's another bad episode of "24" being schlepped to real Americans. The House of Representatives must intervene to help the country get rid of the scoundrels.
1
Did it ever occur to this administration, that if we hadn't deployed so many targets to the Persian Gulf the Iranians would not have anything to shoot at? Perhaps it did, and that is why additional assets were in fact deployed. Congress mus re exert its authority and get our military assets under adult supervision. And, to that end, John Bolton should be shown the door once and for all.
1
This reads as further evidence that the Trump administration seeks twofold to justify a nearly $700 billion military budget, and bolster his ability to grow the job market - all in time for 2020. This is evidenced as the Times reports no available info of a White House briefing of a true investigation or gathered proofs that the drone was in fact in international airspace.
Another war abroad won’t ease the angst (war) here at home
If Trump does decide to strike at Iran then it should be at the nuclear enrichment facilities possibly then he would at least have some world wide approvals.
Iran is Shia. Al Qaeda is Sunni.
Claiming a link between the two is a ridiculous assertion.
1
@MidtownATL
Do you honestly think this President knows the difference between the two??
A measured response is the president’s call. And he was the one to pull it back. Guess he’s not such a hawk.
1
If Trump does not get the US into a nuclear war, I will consider his reign a success.
Powers of CONGRESS from US Constitution:
Article 1, Sec. 8, Clause 11:
"To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water"
That's CONGRESS and not the Executive Branch, Mr. Trump. Whether it's 150 lives at risk or a more likely and much higher number, the blunt instrument of military engagement in any form is the worst use of blood and treasure.
Mr. Trump: Please read the Constitution you swore to uphold and protect.
Congress: Ditto.
1
If President Obama had not been desperate to justify his premature Nobel Peace Prize, we would not be in this difficult situation. We had, at that time, the support of many nations for our sanctions; but Iran sensed the desperation of the President, and set a deal at a very high cost to the U.S., and future administrations. President Obama was in effect "kicking the nuclear bomb down the road". A poor decision that future generations now have to deal with.
1
@Jack
No. It was Trump’s withdrawal from the agreement that precipitated this crisis. Stop getting your news from Hannity.
I'm equally concerned about quality of products and services many, probably most, of American defense manufacturers and contractors are providing to US military and at an insanely high price. This downed drone costed about $130 million and "was developed to evade the very surface-to-air missiles used to bring it down, surprised some Defense Department officials", as reported by The Times yesterday. And that's not any isolated example.
Most of America's defense manufacturing are done by huge companies with bigger political lobbying arms like Boeing, which makes 737 Max and self-certified it. These private manufacturers claim all sorts of qualities that the machine clearly never had, besides charging far more than it otherwise should. It seems to fall in a pattern about decline of quality of American research and products for last many years.
It was already bad before Trump came to the office as defense budget was ballooning (despite of Obama's best efforts to reduce it.) Now, most of Trump's advisers & cabinet members are from those big corporations and/or from lobbing groups promoting corporate interest for their entire lives. Trump is more than willing to accommodate such people and proposals that increase business and profits for such corporations. His entire policy realm revolves around money than national security and interest of common Americans- be it immigration, or trade disputes/wars, military preparedness, and war adventures abroad.
4
@bonku
Good point, but missile defense systems are only as good as what the engineers know about the offensive weapons. This may be a blessing in disguise. If the Iranians with the help of Russia have developed a better missile system we now know it and this may protect our pilots in the future.
War with Iran does not serve U.S. strategic interests. Iran is not our enemy. Iran is no threat to the U.S. Iran helped the U.S. fight Islamic State. Saudi Arabia and Israel want the U.S. to attack Iran--are we to do their bidding? Please let's ignore "allies" that cost the U.S. dearly in terms of, money, respect, and American lives, and offer nothing in return, but more demands. Oh, yes, the Saudis buy U.S. weapons.
2
Trump has not many redeeming characteristics. But one thing he does have is a respect for human life, and that extends beyond that of Americans. So I can respect him for that. Pompeo and Bolton do not have respect for human life.
@Robert, he doesn't show a lot of respect for human life when he is locking kids in cages for their parents' crime of hoping for them a better life. He doesn't show a lot of respect for human life in his support of Saudi Arabia's murderous crown prince. He doesn't show a lot of respect for human life when, against the wishes of the US Congress and US citizens, he sells Saudi Arabia weapons to slaughter Yemenis and perpetuate genocide and famine against civilians. He doesn't show a lot of respect for human life when he heaps praise on and rubs shoulders with guys like Kim Jong-un and Rodrigo Duterte. And he didn't display any respect for human life when he took out a full page ad calling for the death penalty for 5 kids who were innocent of the heinous crime they were accused of. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in Trump's version of events and I wouldn't bet too heavily on his respect for human life.
2
@Robert. You must be kidding! Trump respect human life. I’m still laughing at that statement. He realized most of the people aren’t buying the “war” con to help his poll numbers. He manufactured this crisis.
Why the urgency to "Do something!" about Iran's minor aggressions? Meanwhile, our government's response to clear and present dangers like climate change, foreign government cyberattacks on our electronic voting systems and social media sabotage of elections, inadequate and unaffordable healthcare, gun violence, and opioid addiction and deaths proceeds at a snail's pace if at all. Thank goodness we have a full bench of Democratic presidential candidates who realize that our national security begins at home and are focused on these life-or-death and other domestic issues. Iran is a problem in the Middle East. Let the countries of the Middle East and the UN deal with it. Make America Greater.
5
We are learning what happens when a proud nation, faced with unlawful and immoral aggression from the United States, calls our bluff and reveals the incompetence of the administration and the foolishness of its so-called foreign policy.
President Trump reneged on an international agreement that would have prevented Iran from developing nuclear weapons and could have been the basis for building trust and allow further peaceful negotiations. He then imposed crippling economic sanctions. He upped the ante by attempting to prevent Iran from exporting its oil. Iran, with its back to the wall, warned us that if we cut off its oil shipments, it would retaliate by preventing other countries from shipping oil in the region. Iran probably kept its promise by attacking several oil tankers.
When we proclaimed that Iran was responsible for these attacks, we discovered that our nation’s credibility, compromised by this administration’s lies and bullying and incomprehensible foreign policy left us with little international support. When Iran shot down an American drone, we learned that the administration had failed to consider the consequences of its actions. If we attack Iran, we will be at war. If we ignore their actions, we look foolish. This could have been avoided if we had competent people in charge and avoided this situation in the first place.
8
@Charles
That now discarded agreement did no more than delay Iran's development of nuclear weapons, if it wants them (which it denies). It didn't "prevent" it. As for negotiations and diplomatic results, none have occurred or show any sign of occurring.
As with Korea, north and south, our objective is a nuclear-free "peninsula" or "zone" or, plainly, a nuclear-free or tightly controlled "permissible" nuclear use Iran, policed somehow by external forces. Iran's objective is to remain free to do what it wants, including development and use of nuclear power, for peace or war, as it chooses. Not as we or someone else chooses, but as it chooses. Hard to get together on that one, isn't it?
Think Russia, China, Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea, and maybe others we don't know about (South Africa maybe). Add in Iran pretty soon.
We're in a dangerous, nuclearly proliferated world, one that can't be reversed or limited meaningfully by arms or by meetings and words. That's how it is. This is not about looking foolish or not. It's far too late to think we can avoid this. Live with it. Or die in it (a quick half a billion in a few flashes and then billions in the aftermath).
It's simply not just up to us.
I feel the President has remained cool and calm through this situation. He had to come out and decry the event but did not threaten nor make hollow rebuttals.
1
@NatureVoter, I thought this and other papers reported some very ominous threats against Iran by our prez, primarily by his extremely vague & open ended terminology followed by some of his usual later contradictory statements.
I know that in the U. S. Constitution, the Congress is listed are the first branch of government and therefore should be the most powerful. But observing what is happening around us, that apparently is not true. Do we believe what people tell us or do we believe what we can see?
From my observation it seems that The Donald does whatever he wants to do. Lay on harsh sanctions on any country or person he does like; threaten or impose tariffs at will; issue executive orders at will. Many people complain and file lawsuits. But if he can get the case to the Supremes, they will back The Donald.
The Congress can pass laws; but The Donald can veto them and they need 2/3 in the House and Senate each to over ride. That is extremely difficult to get.
If the Congress does want to stand up for its role in government, I don't think anyone else can or will.
4
@Aubrey
This administration proves once again, that certain people and corporations ARE above the law.
"There are encouraging signs that Capitol Hill is reasserting its authority. Against the wishes of the president, the Senate voted Thursday to block arms sales to Saudi Arabia for its proxy war with Iran being waged in Yemen."
I would not call the Senate vote encouraging. The saber-rattling, insecure little man in the Oval Office already said he would veto it, and the House vote on the Authorization for Use of Military Force will be dead on arrival in the White House as well.
8
I wish I could believe Congressional action would temper war fever in the WH, but the last time Congress was asked about going to war in the Middke East - Iraq 2003 - Congress eagerly and overwhelmingly supported going to war. (Same after 9/11.)
There’s little reason to think Congress would have more spine today, with the possible exception of having an irrational and impulsive President at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue.
2
@Ralph Begleiter
The US loves war. We need to own it and do something about it. It weakens our nation to waste so much of our national treasure on constant war.
3
Trump hasn't gotten us into any wars, unlike his predecessors. Iran really only fights through proxies and is weak militarily on its own, and highly vulnerable actually in Iran itself.
Trump's general messaging and posturing with regards to Iran may serve as further reason to wake up angry each morning for some, but it is working.
At worst, one strong non-combat troop military response based on a significant future Iran intiated event is all that would be needed.
Trump has said that the Iranian downing of our drone may have been an honest mistake on their part. This speaks volumes. He doesn't want to attack Iran in the least.
4
We have yet to learn that there are no winners in war. Each side suffers irreversible losses.
We have yet to learn there are no ends to conflicts in the Middle East and damage done never gets undone.
After Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq, we have yet to learn that invading countries that do not share our values results in an inexcusable loss of life.
We have yet to learn that weakened nations never respect their perceived oppressors, making diplomacy more difficult.
We have yet to learn the world is not our fiefdom.
5
@White Rabbit Apparently you think it’s okay to attack tankers and drones international waters. Are you waiting for an airliner to be shot down next?
History shows that Americans don't change presidents in times of war. This fact is certainly playing into Trump's calculus. 2020 elections are coming up. They're more concerned with whether this would be a big long war versus a short one when American leadership should be asking if war is necessary at all.
11
As soon as I heard this item on the news, I assumed this is what Trump was up to. He’s been spoiling for a fight since election horns started blaring.
He’s the lion in The Wizard of Oz, trying to fight Toto. He needs a smack on the nose.
In addition to repealing the AUMF, Congress could also specifically restrict retaliatory action against Iran. That would eliminate the the President's ability to "take military action,,, for the purpose of protecting important national interests" under Article II. The restriction would necessarily be a narrow one. Some national interests are more important than others.
However, it would make the Pentagon think twice about flying unmanned surveillance drones into enemy missile range. What if Congress decided drones were not a "national interest" when presently considering military action against Iran. That would certainly alter the math.
In any event, Congress needs to act aggressively. Whether the Trump administration stumbles into war following the path of Syria or the path of Iraq, there's really no other body capable of preempting bad decisions. AG Barr will interpret the President's war authorization however he wants. The Judicial Branch won't have a chance to say he's wrong until we're already neck deep in Iran.
The only good news is the Warhawk Caucus fundamentally misreads America's will to prosecute even a limited war against Iran. Trump seems to sense this reality even if he doesn't understand why. The 42 percent will of course cheer and wave flags. However, the vast majority of Americans are still jaded on neocon war mongering. Iran more than anything else has the potential to make Trump a one term President.
1
Pompeo seems to be every bit as hawkish as Bolton on Iran and Trump is hard to trust but thankfully yesterday’s poorly thought out escalation was pulled back.
The Trump administration should be working with Congress and our allies. Instead McConnell is just fine with whatever Trump does which greatly diminishes Congresses role in our Democracy.
8
@Javaforce: How that weasel McConnell wields such power without ever winning a popular election outside of Kentucky boggles the mind.
1
Congress can't agree on anything. And in the remote event it does, Trump will veto it.
2
...And what is tRump getting away with THIS time while all eyes have been distracted away from him? How are all the investigations going, where are the tax returns? Don't be distracted.
8
If Congress is viewed as cooler heads, war with Iran is all but a slam-dunk. Congress gives the go ahead rather than douse wars. It was not Congress that questioned Vietnam, but people in the streets. Congress was late to the game, but the war dragged on until 1975.
Since then, Congress has taken the position that domestic politics ends at our shore line. The GOP made it a central core of its party—strong military and aggressive policies. The defeat of Dukakis convinced the Democrats that they must outdo the GOP with even greater devotion to Ares.
Before the terror wars, the US participated in some 16 conflicts since 1975. The terror wars has seen an alliance between the Presidency, Congress, and the media in a lock step to insure a united front in every combat situation. Any politician or academic who questions such policies become targets—from being naive to being traitorous.
It is hard to believe that Congress took 4 days to support Wilson’s declaration of war. Even then 6 senators and 50 representatives rejected the war. And Jeannette Rankin cast the only vote not to declare war in 1941.
Congress is no longer a deliberative body on war, but a rubber-stamp. The hawks that gave us Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria now have set their sites on Iran.
In 2004, Michael Moore approached Congressmen to find out just who had children fighting in Iraq. Then as now, Congress is brave when someone else pays the price.
9
The US congress must find their resolve and stand up to the lawless actions from the war hawks in the White House. The President does not have the authority to wage war without Congressional approval but details like that have not stopped Trump in the past.
I think that he sees war as a way to increase his odds in the 2020 election, especially since he would not be risking his own life. When that was required of him during Vietnam he was too cowardly to serve but he does not have the same reservations about other people's lives. Maybe Jared and Ivanka can be on the front lines in their war with Iran, just to show that he is sincere.
Don't buy the myth that the US is always the calm and wise protector of peace, when many times we are the cause of death and destruction around the globe. It is hardly credible that Iran should be held accountable for not abiding by the nuclear control treaty when Trump is the one who destroyed that accord.
10
@Jim Dickinson, agree with your comment. Have a friend from Nicaragua and she said to me the USA is oftentimes the “trouble maker” in other countries forcing their belief system and will on others via involvement making life worse for the people in those countries. She resented the USA involvement decades ago because it caused so much grief in day to day living she was unable to get the simplest of foods like cereal and bread. Dunno, but sometimes it is best not to push USA agendas onto others.
1
In my experience (I am a retired attorney) aggressive negotiators come out well a majority of the time. However, on the occasions when things don't come out well for the aggressive negotiator, the results are disastrous. I don't think the principle is different with foreign affairs. Many countries will back down wanting to avoid a confrontation. But when they don't, disaster in the form of an unnecessary war may be the result.
2
This is not the time to have an impulsive, bellicose leader of the free world. We know it and our allies know it.Let's hope Iran understands that they are dealing with Dr. Strange Love and don't do anything we will all regret.
4
I believe we need to worry more about the " Wage the Dog" syndrome as you only have to look back at George W's reelection to see how reluctant US voters are to change presidents during war time. It's been proven time and again that Trump is motivated by his political future and pleasing his base rather than what is good for the country. It's not Iran we need to worry about, rather it's Trump that's the real concern.
9
100% agree. Now, if you can just get the 2 million people who tune in daily to the Fox Propaganda Channel to see that not only is Trump unstable and irrational, but that we have also failed miserably to bring anything resembling Democracy to the Middle East, have been directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent people, and have wasted trillions of taxpayer dollars doing it. As a People, we need to see that there's a better way to deal with Iran that is both conservative and progressive, both faith-based and secular, and it makes great economic sense -- it's called peace.
14
Trump's "We don't want war" keeps reminding me of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, where both sides say "We want peace." However in the latter struggle, what they mean is "we want peace on our terms, with [Israel or the Palestinians, choose one] rolling over. Trump wants peace with Iran, so long as it is on his terms. Yes, Iran is responsible for much of the unrest in the Middle East. But what country would sit idly by and let another country tell it to give up its nuclear power program, stop trying to be a major power in its region, dismantle its defense industry, change its government from a theocracy to something else, or watch its economy fail due to an external secondary boycott? The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor after the U.S. embargoed all oil imports to Japan, a similar form of economic warfare. Does the U.S. have an achievable end-point?
1
It's not Congress's call until if and when Congress asserts its power to be the authority that makes the call.
Any discussions about the wisest course of action, or that contains phrases such as "The president needs to understand that .." are irrelevant hypotheticals in world where our president has absolute power.
Nominally, of course, he does not. But as a practical matter, when Congress abdicates their responsibilities, then president is effectively king. Trump will do whatever he pleases, with all the might of the United States at his command, and he has made it very clear that he really doesn't want anyone else's opinion or suggestions.
The single most important lesson from these last two and half years is that we have learned how much we rely on norms, traditions, and unenforceable rules. There are literally no checks on a president other than removal from office through impeachment.
Even if Congress passes laws restricting the president's actions, if Trump chooses to ignore the law it is the justice department that would have to compel his compliance. "Take him to court!", people shout. What then? SCOTUS could rule 9-0 against the the president, but he can simply ignore the ruling. Again, that ruling would need to be enforced by the justice department.
Only Congress can ultimately control the president, via removal. When the president respects that law, Congress can control the executive with laws. But "Pretty please?" doesn't work.
7
I don’t see how it’s particularly now ... right now ... that Trump faces a credibility crisis, as this editorial states. Now? Trump, who is clearly a fraud, hasn’t hasn’t had any credibility on anything from at least the time he took office ... well, that doesn’t support his personal obsession for dominance. He behaves consistently in ways that instead his being presiding citizen-servant for the nation, it, the nation and its agencies, ought to be a servant of his. As for the urged recommendation for his consulting with Congress about critical issues such as how properly to respond to the alleged situations involving Iran: Really? These two branches of government presently simply do not work together in a collaborative way at all ... and this excludes that within the legislative branch there is so much political discord. “American credibility at stake” ? Indeed, with Trump, it is America that’s at stake.
6
Bolton has been calling for regime change for 25 years, Pompeo for several years and Cotton wrote a letter to the Mullahs telling them not to negotiate with Obama, I assume because he was against ending their nuclear program for 15 years. How much of this confrontation was thought up by Bibi, MBS and MBZ? Is the current escalation an attempt to support Bibi and Trump's re-elections? And finally, do the AEI neocons running this understand just how much damage Iran can do in a short period? Careful what you wish for!
5
Clearly, a regime change is needed. I am looking forward to voting.
38
All future military operations in the Persian Gulf should be entirely funded by a tax on oil. The fossil fuel market should pay the true costs of their product.
11
Fossil fuel consumers should pay the price that their demand creates.
"Follow the money," not only applied to Watergate, but is premier in the debacle that has come to be U.S. foreign policy since the attacks of 2001. Every answer is a military one and the shares of the top arms manufacturers are a sure bet these days. We had a diplomatic agreement with Iran reached in 2015, and Trump, et al. abandoned it. The U.S. has a massive "empire" with over 800 military installations around the world to maintain the world order. Iran is just one piece of the march to change anything that is an obstacle to U.S. (read the West's) interests, or is perceived by those in power and the elite to be against those interests. This is the way empires decay. If this society put a fraction of what it spends on the military-industrial complex into human needs, we would be the shining city on the hill, but that is not the case. This does not mean that there are no nefarious threats around the world, but the nation and government doesn't deal with threats intelligently anymore.
3
@Howie Lisnoff Should read: "do not deal with threats..."
I'm sure all of the republican military veterans in the executive and legislature will think of their years of service when they make these decisions.
3
"Lawmakers must weigh in" and "Congress must be consulted"?
Unfortunately, "Lawmakers" and "Congress" have demonstrated no wisdom about foreign affairs.
These elected politicians have one concern, namely their own reelection, power and financial gain.
6
@jck - and how is this different from draft-dogging Trump and his gang of chickenhawks? They know a war would give him a polls bump and an infusion of cash from the arms dealer community, Lockheed, Northrop Grumman, et al., not to mention big oil. Do you trust this self-interested conspiracy of war-mongers or would you prefer to trust the checks and balances afforded us by our 230-year-old Constitution?
Mr. Trump stated in his 2016 campaign that he wanted to stop the "endless wars" and to adopt a less interventionist stance. As president, he hired John Bolton (one of the biggest war hawks of all time) and Mike Pompeo.
Which one is it, Mr. Trump? You can't have it both ways.
If you don't want another war, then fire Mr. Bolton and Mr. Pompeo.
19
@MidtownATL
And fire Senator Tom Cotton while you're at it.
So how much is the defense industry donating to Trump & friends? Nothing bumps their stock and company equity like a 'good' war.
This whole situation between pulling out of the agreement, rather than renegotiating, and continued 'tough guy' antics seems like more show than there is cause. Given how much money from special interest groups dominates our government, I wouldn't be surprised if all of this isn't to the benefit of some lobbyist.
21
The real problem here is we assume that there are adults in the room and we know that's not the case!
21
@BTO
One of the hardest acceptances about this piece of history is that this person is actually president.
That he has to be taken seriously, due to a perfect storm effect, is still unfathomable.
Like Trump Obama had red lines and ignored them. Obama was different in that he did not rant and rave publicly. But neither one was particularly good in foreign affairs.
5
@n1789
Really?
The deal forged with Iran, a country with no reason to trust took patience and the ability to ignore Tom Cotton.
Now trump has put that at risk for no good reason, other than he, alone, thinks Bolton is a successful ME strategist.
Bolton wants regime change in Iran; he wants war, even though he never served in real combat. The rest of the grifters around Trump are interested in profiteering, and in ensuring power within the judiciary and in Congress. This might be an Administration known on some important level as an historic failure. Historians will have a lot to research and record. The few competent people willing to serve under Trump left. The "Press Secty." hated the press. And so on . . .
3
Obama was not perfect, but in fact he was exceptionally good at foreign affairs, gradually marginalizing Russia and China and bolstering our critical alliances. Trump has failed miserably at both, handing the Pacific Rim to China, becoming Putin’s chief fan-boy and undermining NATO.
And Obama is an honest man. Trump is a liar.
Your comparison if the two is obnoxious to the truth.
1
It was only a matter of time before it came down to this.
The clock on Iran has essentially been ticking ever since Donald Trump pulled the U.S. out of the nuclear agreement.
And between the tweets, threats and tariffs that has led to more troops, more ships, and eventually military skirmishes and now a downed drone, it was only inevitable that this president would seek to retaliate the only way he knows how.
By force. And unilaterally.
One can only hope that Congress doesn't let things deteriorate any further by using every available means at their disposal to stop this bellicosity, because the Warhawk Caucus won't.
Stoking a war with Iran under any pretext would only be an invitation to further destabilize an area already rife with conflict.
It must be strenuously avoided.
Not only in the name of the American people, but in the name of all humanity.
22
Note its the senior civilian advisers, Bolton, Pompeo and Haskell who are advising POTUS for military actions against Iran. Not the Pentagon or senior military advisers.
Iran will not be overrun in weeks like Afghanistan or Iraq. This is an entirely different situation.
13
Don't expect Congress to act on any crisis. The current congress is do nothing irresponsible congress that will obstruct and do nothing constructive. That said Trump has made Iran a pressure cooker due to sanctions that has to become open to diplomacy with Trump like it or not. Trust or no trust. For now it was prudent and statesman like for Trump to have called off the attacks. There cannot be any further escalation. Iran should not think that just because it is ready for a ground war it will prevail. America will not fight a ground war with Iran. It will rely on a ferocious air force and aircraft carriers in the Persian gulf.
United Nations security council should weigh in at this point and neutral countries like Switzerland must step up to host a summit between leaders of The USA and Iran. Putin has said a war in the Persian gulf will be a disaster. We the people of USA also should support Trump if he makes overtures for peace to Iran. He does not need the permission of congress to give peace a chance. Congress cannot even make peace with our president. How do you expect congress to make peace with a country that took American hostages 40 years ago and recently shot down an unmanned (or unwomananed) American drone worth 180 million dollars? America also has not been fair to Iran in those 40 years. Iranians would like remind the US of the downing of an Iranian passenger airline carrying a couple hundred innocent passengers and nullifying the nuclear deal but paying $$$$s.
3
Trump and his gang of liars say that the surveillance drone was in international air space when it was shot down. Are We the People of the United States and of the rest of the world supposed to believe that the multi-million dollar drone was looking at water and not spying on Iran in Iranian air space? Please.
25
@Valerie Elverton Dixon But you will believe the enemy? Please.
@Lee
With all due respect, the real 'enemy' is sitting in the Oval Office right now. Please.
Congress, can’t agree on what’s for lunch.
4
I am disappointed that the NYT is not taking a stand against the war.
Ever since Mr Trump entered the Oval Office, he has been working towards this. The country has trillions of debt and is already involved in various conflicts in the region. Who is to profit from a new war?
5
@ves What war? There has been no declaration of war with Iran.
It is King Trump's call to go to war not congress or the senate. We do not have a congress or senate that represent the people anymore. They have abdicated their legal authority of checks and balances to King Trump. Long live the King.
2
Whatever.
The president apparently can’t make the decision on his own.
When we need a strong, decisive leader, he is showing his true bully persona.
He’s weak. An empty suit. An imposter.
27
@Steve Ell
On the contrary, this president has demonstrated that unlike all his predecessors, he cannot be manipulated or pressured into doing something he doesn't want to do.
@Steve Ell
We in NY have known this for decades.
1
@AACNY it was neither a case of manipulation nor pressure - he ordered the strike and when the planes were in the air, he backed off. iran knows this. the world knows this.
iran has been telling its people the US is going to be dropping bombs. now they have evidence that such was the case.
iran will say trump was afraid of its power. the action will convince people that its leaders were correct. it will energize the radicals.
war is not something that should be done halfway. i am not in favor of another conflict. as the article states, congress should make the call.
17 years ago The House abdicated its responsibility, broke constitutional law, and allowed Bush to make the decision on Iraq. The House did not want the political blame. Nor did it have the courage to make a decision. Since then The House has done little but waste our time. Reading these comments it seems readers and writer are all dreaming and forgetful. No wonder history is repeating itself.
7
The capacity of humans to stick by fools, in denial of their own foolishness, promises to "fulfill the Book".
5
Congress is no longer relevant. The USA is now a dictatorship, in case you haven't noticed. Just one person owns all branches of the government and more. The only thing in question is the military. Once he secures that, watch out. Deaths will soon follow.
9
I think DJT is waiting for the Apprentice writers to provide his script.
12
@JTowner, this is a totally sick response and yet unfortunately very possibly accurate.
"When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
America makes bombs, wars, and cannons fodder. Ask around in flyover.
5
The Iranians would shoot back. That's the issue.
Any aerial vehicle entering their air space will be shot at. If we send missiles over to destroy their radar, they can sink our ships. Shoot at them like fish in a barrel. That's why the Lincoln never entered the Persian Gulf.
Remember Millennium Challenge 2002, a war game where the Iranian side drowned 30,000 sailors in the first 45 minutes.
4
Gosh, when the Iranians called us the evil empire, I though they were exaggerating. I do not like their fundamentalist religious practices, which are actually more liberal than our allies, but this is largely a democratic country we are targeting for political and economic reasons. It’s evil.
14
@Uofcenglish Iran a largely democratic country? They are great at charades.
Yes. Yet another manufactured crisis by the Donald Trump Administration, Israel, Saudi Arabia. Americans see it, know it, and await impeachment and removal. Except for the potentially catastrophic consequences, our tax dollars and national reputation suffer at the whims of a rogue, buffoon administration. Is does not get much more dangerous or pathetic. Impeach today!
7
"It's now President Trump who faces a crisis in credibility..."
President Trump's incredibility is severely compounded by his demonstrated ignorance and incompetence.
5
We can picture Donald Trump’s insane mind. He would need to convince himself a “real” US president would need to “lead a war”. So to be “real” he’ll just start one. No matter circumstances nor ramifications. After all, no worries about his family. Not like they’d pay any consequences. So, he’ll just keep proving he’s “real” no matter results of any means. Bring on the bombs, murder, destruction to please Donald J. Trump and fulfill his fantasy.
Warped.
5
We wouldn’t be in this mess if Hillary was president. Just saying.
14
@UScentral I am trying to figure out how Hillary would have kept Iran from shooting down a US drone.
Trump IS awaiting the green light to attack. Not from the U.S. Congress. He is not at all concerned with that. He is waiting for Bibi and MBS to give their blessing. Funny, isn't it, Trump no longer wishes to do the heavy lifting and the dirty work for our allies in Europe. But he is more than willing to do it for Saudi Arabia and Israel. All they have to do is have a parade for him when he visits or name a building after him and Trump is willing to do whatever they ask. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the control center for drone strikes, now in New Mexico I think, was moved to Jerusalem.
15
Where's Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnell. Are they completely asleep at the wheel? Why are they so afraid to do their job?
3
Those old cartoons "The End Is Near!" now seems prescient.
1
Follow the money. Who benefits if Iran and the US go to war?
6
The saddest aspect of this mess is, for me, the fact that we can no longer trust one syllable emanating from the Oval Office or from any denizen of the White House. For those of us with long memories - mine go back to President Truman - it's a case of 'how the mighty have fallen'.
p.
5
@Jerry and Peter
Trump has, according to Vanity Fair, passed the 10,000-lies post and is still not even winded. He is a master of deception, if nothing else. If he lies about how many miles of Wall he has built, or about draining the swamp, or successfully managing illegal immigration, or whether he would take foreign money in an election without telling the FBI, or just being the greatest president ever, how can anyone trust him on national defense?
J
1
Why are U.S. politicians discussing attacks on Iran? Iran blew up an expensive toy clearly flying over its air space (Why in Heaven would it have been flying over Omani air space?!?), and that should be the end of it. Keep your military away from Iran. Keep your weapons and personnel within the confines of the 30 U.S. military bases scarring the neighbourhood. Use them only if attacked.
And stop all those false flag operation. The world can see through them. The captain of the Japanese tanker stated Pompeo was lying about limpet mine explosions, emphasising that his crew witnessed incoming missiles that did the damage.
No more lies. No more provocation. For your sake as well as the region's.
11
@Hamid Varzi It is admittedly an ugly situation made worse by those who counsel Trump, but it is disingenuous to pin this entirely on the USA. Iran reluctantly came to the table regarding its nuclear aspirations, acquiesed, then continued its covert operations throughout the Middle East. Some would say the issues in the ME are a Shia/ Sunni religious divide, but I say they are largely economic ones; power and control.
1
Iran has a right to defend itself.
5
@Yellow Girl The UNITED STATES does as well. Iran shot down a drone in international waters. That is an overt act of war.
In 2017 the United States military dropped 26,000 bombs on seven Muslim countries and then accused Muslims of being terrorists. All Jewish and Christian religions preach that warfare is evil and that peace must be pursued. The United States is agonizing in its immoral warmongering. Its neocolonial wars have all been disastrous. Give peace a chance.
9
Head fake. Strike coming. Clerics know they'll get crushed, but hope for EU weakness and conflict to persuade the US not to strike. Too late. Mossad has already fed all the target data the Pentagon needs to make a crippling first strike. Syria was a practice run. Iran's criminal regime will not survive in current form. Done deal.
1
War, peace, who's to say? I mean, Tolstoy didn't have his mind made up, right?
The War Powers Act is not worth the paper it was written on, if Congress does not do its duty to check this autocrat's power.
3
''Linking Al Qaeda to a despotic Middle East regime was exactly the pretext that the George W. Bush administration used to invade Iraq, with catastrophic results. It would insult the intelligence of every American for the Trump administration to attempt the same gambit,'' wrote the authors.
Individual sanity is no common good in United States of Amnesia. Collective cognitive dissonance is.
''a central lesson of the past two decades of American military action: that it is easy to start conflicts and impossible to predict how they might end,'' wrote the authors.
If yourself and the NYT edit board can't predict chaos, go back to first assertion.
1
it is neo con nonsense- distort the intelligence and go to war. Trump and Bolton- have you no shame!
Start campaigning and stop complaining now everyone who wants Trump out. get involved with local campaigns for Dems- that is the best way to get the turn out needed to get rid of Trump.
2
@jonathan berger
Remember how the Iraq War would last maybe two weeks, and pay for itself? Remember that Iran helped us against ISIS on the border? Remember how Israel sucked us into the forever ME war? What do we really know about Pompeo and Bolton? Their careers have not been successful, except for themselves. Is there anyone with the experience to deal with Iran? Are there any people in charge, other than "Acting"? In the meantime we have an ugly situation on the border. Children without bathing facilities, tooth brushes, clean clothes, or decent food. Really 'deplorable' in plain view.
Trump personally does not want to start a war. I think he knows most of his base supporters don't want it. Only the hard core nut cases. He is being pushed into this by the insane likes of John Bolton, Pompeo, Israel & Saudi Arabia. .. Iran released the coordinates where they struck the drone. The U.S. hasn't. Congress and the candidates better forcefully speak up before this gets out of hand.
5
Trump clearly doesn’t agree.
Iran ≠ Al-Queda. The limited understanding of Iranian history, culture, and politics on display in the US is appalling and should be cause for anyone on war footing to reconsider their views. This isn't some hostile state hell-bent on the destruction of the US we are talking about here. It's a multifaceted society full of innocent civilians. We live in a time when war should no longer be a diplomatic course of action. I hope that we can avert more pointless human suffering like the US inflicted in Iraq.
2
One would have thought that with the number of wars that the US has instigated in the region that are still ongoing that there would be some reticence at starting another. But apparently no. The US has poured thousands of lives and trillions in treasure into making this part of the world more unstable. And all of these wars continue with no end in sight or even a viable exit strategy. Meanwhile the US falls further behind as the schools lag and the infrastructure crumbles. It is difficult to see what sort of greatness this president and his supporters envision, unless it is making the fall of Rome look like an amateur act. Long past time for Congress to exert itself in some small measure to protect the country from the acts of its leaders.
6
@Greg Latiak, viable exit strategy is no longer part of our vocabulary and collection consciousness. I have foolishly been waiting for years to hear that the criteria have been met for withdrawal from the middle east. In reality we have no criteria and no plan. We behave as if we are the dumbest country on the planet.
1
Attacking rogue military elements in Iran is NOT Congress's call. The President is responsible for the security of the United States. Congress is responsible for drafting laws and voting on laws. Congress can also vote to declare war on the leadership of another Country.
Should another Country's leadership lose its ability to control its military, the President can react to remove the weapon systems of that Country that threaten United States interests without declaring war on the Leadership. At this point those weapon systems include mines and missiles.
No one wants to declare war and have to remove and be prepared to replace the leadership of another third world country in the middle east. At this point, Congressional approval to declare war is not needed.
2
President Trump cannot constitutionally go to war with Iran. That is crystal clear.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution grants Congress the power to declare war, as every Middle School student learns. Not the President. Despite a history of violation in recent times, the legality of war-making in American law is hardly ambiguous. It is in fact emphatically stated.
The President, meanwhile, derives the power to direct the military after a Congressional declaration of war from Article II, Section 2, which names the President Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces.
IF Congress were to declare war on Iran then Trump and his administration would prosecute that war, not Congress.
So the issue is not: should Trump go to war in Iran? In fact he CANNOT, even if he wanted to.
The issue is: should CONGRESS go to war in Iran.
In fact, I do not believe they should. At present, it appears to be a mind-boggling morass of stupidity cooked up by the likes of Bolton and Pompeo, neither of whom are even IN CONGRESS, driving the discussion.
Trump and his team may be itching for war, stirring up the conditions of war, promoting the anti-diplomacy of war. But they are POWERLESS TO MAKE WAR.
That power belongs to CONGRESS in the US system of government.
8
"Lawmakers must weigh in"—
But we have a completely dysfunctional Senate due in large part to a pathetic Trump lackey majority leader called McConnell.
[And we also have a House Speaker who cowers from the constitutional duty to proceed with impeachment (regardless of outcome in the dysfunctional Senate) because of fear of backlash and energizing Trump's "base".]
In short, calling for lawmakers to "weigh in" is more than a little naive. But it sounds good and responsible, for the editorial.
3
Trump has made a fool of himself, but more importantly a fool of our country. By our Constitution only Congress has the right to declare wars - President Obama went to Congress and requested authority to attack a sovereign nation, Syria, and was turned down. I never thought in my life I would agree with Rep. Matt Gaetz, but even he says Congress must give the authority for the President to commit American lives in acts of war. If Trump had carried through with a counterattack Iran would respond, do not doubt that. This is not Syria, it's Iran and even his missile attacks against Syria Trump warned the Russians before launching them to prevent a military confrontation. Wars never ever go as planned and this one was/is totally avoidable. This was a Russian military surface-to-air missile system that downed our drone - just think about that for a few minutes. Who does Trump praise over his own intelligence agencies... Iran is a really bad actor that does not mean you can force regime change down their throats. In fact, they can shut the straits down in a day and what happens then. We've been here before with President Bush and the second Iraq war. Are we going to repeat history, or are we going to think strategically/long term? President Trump is not qualified for the position he was elected too and the damage he has done on the international level is at a breaking point.
Last night President Trump backed down, what does that tell you?
7
“It would insult the intelligence of every American for the Trump administration to attempt the same gambit (as with Iraq).”
Trump and co disregard use of their own intelligence nor do they have any regard for the intelligence of those who they supposedly serve.
2
It would be great if we could do a huge civil mass protest against this war as the one in Hongkong for the extradition bill.
4
“Loose and stupid". The Iran mess is a perfect storm for trump to launch into his bombast tough guy persona, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. It's really galling to see this so-called commander-in-chief calling the shots on putting young americans in the military in harm's way as part of his reckless willy-nilly foreign policy in the ME. A deliberative war coward, trump himself evaded sacrifice through blatant graft not once but five separate times in the Vietnam war ... a draft dodger par excellence. 58,220 americans sacrificed their lives as he carried on his self-serving hedonistic life style with absolutely no regrets or second thoughts.
7
one time where we're lucky Putin controls Trump. Putin wants tension to raise oil prices not a war between us and iran
8
Here is the simple truth that needs to be absorbed before any further escalation: The United States has absolutely nothing to gain from a war with Iran.
9
really? then why is trump sanctioning iran ? oil? europe russia china partnering with iran? must be something to gain otherwise why confronting every one here?
@gg, I respectfully suggest that you are over thinking this. Trump has from the start attempted to dismantle policies and treaties brokered by the Obama administration. The Iran nuclear deal is just one more example. I believe the man is incapable of deductive reasoning and the concept of unintended consequences.
Ego and self absorption dictate his actions. Please do not give him any credit for logical, vetted and rational thinking.
2
Iran knows the US has no taste whatsoever for any kind of ground war.
The whole thing is so absurdly pointless. No doubt a result of the incredible ham-handedness of what remains of diplomacy now.
1
Trump is the Destroyer-in-Chief, tearing down what came before him, believing his delusion that he’s the best dealmaker ever and could get a better deal on all major agreements—NAFTA, ACA, trade deals, the Iran deal, etc.
Now the world is on the brink of a war in the Mideast due to Trump destroying the Iran agreement, an agreement that was working, because Trump refused to leave in place accomplishments by Obama, for whatever psychological reasons--whatever they are, they don't matter. That’s where this series of events began.
All blood shed is on Trump's hands because he ended the peace that was in place with Iran, initiating forms of economic and political war against Iran.
There was peace and Trump began a conflict in taking the US out of the agreement, ending that relationship of peace, dialogue, and cooperation because he only knows how to engage with others in relationships of conflict, coercion, mistrust, and hate. Trump acted with support and encouragement from Republicans in Congress. Blood is on their hands, too.
He's not of a sound mind; he lacks the capacity psychologically and intellectually to be president. Cabinet members and Republicans in Congress know this, but they’ve let Trump destroy and destabilize the nation and world. They are complicit.
Iran was contained until Trump destroyed that. That should be foremost in everyone's mind when thinking about the situation, resolving it, and bringing back cooperation and peace.
Reinstate the Iran deal.
5
"Attacking Iran Is Congress’s Call" states the title of the editorial. Don't hold your breath on that one. Congress bailed on declaring war, its most Constitutionally sacred responsibility, many decades ago. Not Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq, nor a number of lesser military engagements elicited a Declaration of War from Congress, even as that body funded those wars. The ultimate fault for this shameful state of affairs, though, is that of the American people which has not just tolerated but encouraged its elected representatives to more and more turn over power to a succession of Presidents and the Executive Branch in general.
3
I really despair when I hear Americans talking about the US bringing about regime change by attacking Iran. What folly! The best way to turn every educated Iranian young and old, currently chafing under their repressive theocracy, into a patriot ready to die to defend their country’s sovereignty, would be Trump (and Netanyahu) ordered strikes.
3
The little strongman dictator has been waiting for a chance too flex his military muscle. It will be great again, it will be biggly, better then Obama’s war, it will be the greatest war ever.
Finally Mr. Bone-spur can say he went to war.
2
Congress has always had the authority to authorize war and through the power of the budget, to enforce its will. It has unfortunately given away its power to a long succession of Presidents. It has become a paper tiger. Now we have an insane President and an ineffectual Congress. Who knows what will happen. One thing I do know is that the men and women on the sharp end of the stick, who will follow orders because they at least keep their promises, will be wasted in this conflict.
Thank you for keeping faith, I'm sorry it was in a useless action. You deserve a better government that what we have.
3
But Congress is busy talking to Hope Hicks. And working on influencing the Supreme Court judgement on census questions. Foreign policy, war? Congress has given up that control decades ago. Sad, but true.
5
@UpClose. Congress consists of more than Democrats, and the GOP holds the majority in the Senate. Have any words for them?
Is,as you write, "the Iranian government suffering from the economic sanctions" or the Iranian People?(Economic) warfare isn't a match between to governments but is a terrible instrument of suffering against a whole people.
2
Please do not ask Congress to step in, even if this is their responsibility (which it isn't). After all Congress is far, far too busy peering through its microscope in the quest for something, anything, with which to crucify Trump, even if it means hiring a shopworn ex-con like John Dean to offer his predictable, prepaid sound bites.
2
Unfortunately Trump will not be moved by suggestions that his pretexts will insult intelligence or that the now non-existent credibility of the United States matters. Similarly, cries to respect the institutions of democratic governance will also fall on deaf ears.
Trump only responds to self interest and given his proven cowardice, it is unlikely he will act as any intellectually engaged politician might be expected to act. Efforts by the NYT Editorial Board to persuade Trump through common sense, reasoned argument, or clear-headed logic, is wishful thinking. All we can hope for is that this particular blind squirrel will find a nut that won’t plunge the United States into yet another senseless squandering of American “blood and treasure.”
3
Trump is a fighter - who keeps pushing long after others have given up. Just look how much effort he wasted on Obamacare.
He is having the same experience now with Iran. For a long time he kept increasing sanctions and other harassment against Iran. Now Iran has made it crystal clear that they won't surrender and won't stay passive until it is suffocated.
One can only hope that Trump - who seems to see other human beings only as tools to increase his own interests - gets the message and backs off.
1
Got to prop our military industrial complex up. There’s big money to be made. Not enough war going on.
3
The shooting down of the drone was incredibly provocative, for sure, but so was the escalation against Iran by Trump and his team of hawks. It used to be so nice when the USA was the good guy....
5
Unfortunately Congress has its own firewall- Mitch McConnell. Can we count on Mitch to bring anything to a vote based on its on merit? Perhaps we should add a sweetener like an additional lifetime federal judge who promises to only watch FOX News.
I couldn't agree more that Congress needs to take back its place in the decision making process when war is considered. (And while they are at it they might as well go ahead and take back their oversight authority). But will it do any good if the Republican controlled Senate is simply going to rubber stamp Trump's whim- yes, I'm talking about Lyndsey Graham or whomever that is occupying his body these days.
It's imperative this country elect a Democrat as the next president and vote out the Republican majority in the Senate. Unfortunately it may be too late however to avoid a bloody war with Iran that could have been and should have been avoided.
I am not a fan of Iran. But consider this? Wouldn't you be upset if you signed an agreement and held up your end- agreed upon by all other countries that signed it and the U.N.- and then a large country like the U.S. arbitrarily decides to pull out and choke off all of your economy? I agree with the Iranians that Trump has promoted economic terrorism. This doesn't give Iran a blank check to do as it pleases and shoot down our drones. However, it might be a start to a productive conversation if we can admit that the U.S. is the primary cause of the escalation of tensions in the Gulf.
2
Trump and his end-timers war mongers are slouching toward instigating Armageddon.
I can't think of anything else to do or say to prevent this. Every single part of government failed to do its duty. The Republican party domestic enemy has conquered, and a coup d'etat has been accomplished.
I do think Earth will be better off without this vile species on it, though, ruining everything and everyone.
2
Congress?
We have a congress, a group of elders who work on laws and have responsibility for our nation, people who make sure our children go to bed at night with full bellies and gentle dreams?
Isn't that wonderful.
We also have a history of war crimes that belies any betting on the future that doesn't involve blood and oil. That history is almost entirely a drama full of mighty words and deadly deception. It is a drama that smiles at the way the simple folk are stirred to "defend the republic" against the weak and powerless.
Washington is going the way of Rome, and Athens, and Moscow, and London, as wealth builds up its centers of power ignore the needs of the people and instead are ruled by the rich and those who own everything..\
War and Empire are for fools, and we are fools for letting the stupid and the war hungry play at the destruction of the world.
Hugh
3
Putting anything in the hands of our Congress renders it a joke. The war mongers have their own agenda, Trump's ear, and behind it all, Trump's intransigence. Logic and common sense are not part of the equation.
2
How far has America sunk under the Trump/GOP? We are soon to find out it appears.
Trump, desperate for distractions from his ceaseless lies and equally concerned about losing his “Stay out of Jail” card should he not be reelected would send our children into war and not give it a second thought.
Have you Republicans no shame? I want my son and all of our sons and daughters to live and thrive. I want Iranian children to also. Stop this madness.
4
Then I guess we shall have to assume Congress won’t be taking their summer break.
1
There's a perfectly good reason to war with Iran. It would please our BFF Putin to see the U.S. exhaust itself further. And we do want our friends to view us in a favorable light.
2
Any mention of Iran Air Flight 655 3 July 1988, and we are going to start a war over a drone?
Don't forget what happened last time, start a war, cut taxes, cut domestic spending, increase the military budget, youth on both sides die, and the well to do get out of it with heel spurs, shin splints, and otherwise previously engaged.
The headline yesterday was on the democratic debate on reparations. Right we really have our priorities straight. Donny got a laugh out of that headline.
2
The USA should host a global summit aimed at mending the 1300 year old rift between the Shia and Shiite practices of Islam.
This chasm is the root cause of much suffering and geopolitical friction.
Resolving this is number 2 on the list of global priories. Second only to preparing for extreme weather shifts due to planetary climate and environmental changes.
2
Congress refuses to protect our border so why should we expect them to put our country ahead of politics if we are attacked?
Who are you kidding?
He has obstructed Congress from Inauguration Day. They won't hold press briefings. Trump won't fill cabinet posts. He's a stable genius, remember?
Have you seen these committees in Congress? Republicans threw Susan McDougall in jail for not answering three questions. How many did Hope Hicks refuse to answer?
These Republicans are not going to cooperate with Joe Biden. They are too frightened to confront Trump. Most Democrats (especially the leadership) are frightened of their own shadows.
Let's face it! We only have ourselves to fight back. It's time to pick up a sign and march on Washington.
1
I no longer wish to support anyone in Congress after discovering the depth to which the last 35 years of Congress involved themselves in the theft of my Coal combustion process and the many attempts on my life.
I will no longer vote for a Conspiratory dishonest Congress.
I'm still deeply shocked from my research last night into the Congressmen involved in my life and their Patent law legislating after 50 years that enabled the theft of my idea against my wishes that it never be used. It involved high ranking Republican and Democrat veterans alike.
More to the point of this subject, this nation has been at war for eighteen years creating millions of dangerous seasoned killers that have been returning to our nation, now presenting a strategically obvious danger to American civilians. The Veterans are taking jobs in Congressionally armed Police departments throughout the nation. The result is waves of murders, suicides, and home invasions, and suspect killings by those who are accustomed to the lawless predatory nature of war.
With your decades of Boot camp media creating a persistently dangerous nation, you should all be ashamed of yourselves for being such cold blooded directors of murder and I predict, not threaten, that any decision by you to go to war will send our nation into chaos. And I think that's what you want, to have martial law. The signs have been there for decades and I have been watching.
Now the call of "No War" is not only a call, but a smart idea.
I hope somebody is reminding the White House and Congress the United States shot down an Iranian airliner and Iran did not declare war. Send Tehran a bill for the drone and offer to pay for the missile.
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@Chrisinauburnmaybe we shot it down ourselves.
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@Erica Smythe
Right on! "Mistakes Happen!"
I wonder how you might react if they, you know in the fog of war, a young, jumpy Iranian GI shoots down a US commercial plane in this "fog of war".
I am ashamed that a fellow American can really believe we are more moral than others.
By the way, the US never apologized.
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@Erica Smythe I'm saying that more than likely the drone was in Iranian territory.
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Apparently, Vlad said "Nyet."
I am relieved Trump changed his mind (whatever prompted it), but I believe this incident was a deliberate provocation by the U.S. military to goad Iran into taking some action that could then be used a s a pretext for war. I think what ultimately happened, though, is that Trump's advisers realized that it wasn't really a good pretext. Give it time-- they'll come up with something else.
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"It would insult the intelligence of every American for the Trump administration to attempt the same gambit."
Which is why they are likely to try it.
I simply don't get why John Bolton has such enormous power, getting recycled from administration to administration despite continued, monumental failures. He never served, has a resume of failed foreign policy programs, and still he survives to live another day.
Pompeo and Cotton aren't much better, but at least they have military experience.
That we are relying on Donald Trump--he with the least experience of all, and the instigator of the current mess--to tame the worst instincts of the Warhawk trio is alarming at best.
Congress must demand its right to vote on war. Full stop, period. Not doing so will further drive a nail into the coffin of lost Congressional checks and balances.
We can't afford that, any more than we can afford war with Iran.
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@ChristineMcM
"Pompeo and Cotton aren't much better, but at least they have military experience."
Their military experience apparently gave them swollen heads making them warmongers.
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@ChristineMcM
Long winded answer to a simple comment that is AGREE
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@ChristineMcM Bolton is the spokesperson for the defense contractors. He's their ticket to ride. That's why he's right up there in a Republican Administration. Making defense contractors happy is a high priority in this game.
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We first need to know more about what happened and where the drone was shot down. IN any cse it was very close to Iran. The ME is not our land even if we often act as if it were. What would the US do if a foreign country started sending drones close to Florida. I am missing in the Board's opinion is a clear statement against more use of force.
Do you hear that?
It’s the drumbeat of war. It’s the same old cynical republican playbook. Ramp up the war machine against (insert country here) to ensure another presidential term in a re-election campaign.
It is the their tried and true playbook. The location and reasons change to fit whatever particular boogey man is hot at the moment.
It’s not a matter of if the US will go to war with Iran, but when.
We know congress will do nothing to reign in this behavior either.
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@Ken C - The American people have always rallied around their president in times of war (like most others would). My fear is that if it looks like the current president may not get a 2nd term, the republicans/the president will pull that possibility out of their hat to put him on the winning side. Sidestepping congress, of course.
I still hope fervently (the middle east going up in flames) this will not happen for the sake of the people in the middle east and the rest of the world.
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@Ken C I'm not sure that this is what is happening.
I think this is a sign that Trump has little to no control over his own administration. They distract him by telling him that if he has a meeting with Kim Jung-Un he'll get a Nobel Peace Prize and they set him off to choose the design of the presidential plane. Then Bolton, Pompeo and other hawks set off to make war with Iran for their own perplexing reasons. Trump wakes up, realizes that his administration is breaking his promises to his base and to Putin, and screams a bit until he is distracted again by some new shiny object they put before him.
This is Bolton's war. It has nothing to do with the election, except maybe Bolton's conviction that Trump will lose in 2020 and he'll lose his narrow window to get the US into war with Iran, his bizarre life-long dream.
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@pmschnit
My biggest fear is for the people of Iran, they do not deserve this. These leaders need to get down in the dirt and fight it out instead of sending missiles and bombs to do their dirty work. There wouldn't be any wars if they had to fight it out amongst themselves.
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Someone with stars on their shoulders needs to educate the Trump administration about the potential liabilities of a war with Iran... And soon!
Unlike Iraq it's a larger country with mountains and other terrain features not conducive to an air strike solution. The same can be said of Afghanistan and look at how long we've been involved there. Like Iraq, anything beyond a quick hit & run would quickly devolve into a quagmire ending in cut & run. Iran knows this, but Trump? Not so much.
The Trump administration has a flexible policy toward fact, which does not play to their advantage outside of his 40% base, and he will likely struggle to build an international coalition of allies. We recall how well that strategery worked for 43.
It should also be mentioned that a mayor from Indiana has served in Afghanistan and given the choice between trusting Trump and believing Buttigieg regarding military action in the region... Absolute no-brainer.
Mr. Trump, your foreign policy chickens are on their way home to the roost.
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@BA_Blue
We need a highly qualified, non-political Senate- confirmed Secretary of Defense in place, pronto!
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@BA_Blue
Let's add to the mix that Iran can get to a nuclear weapon in just a few months. Aren't these foolish Republicans taking that into consideration?
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@BA_Blue
"Someone with stars on their shoulders needs to educate the Trump administration about the potential liabilities of a war with Iran...." Do you think that Agent Orange is willing to listen and learn about anything unless it's spoon fed to him on Fox?
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Dear Mr. President, member of the Congress: Want war with Iran? Send your sons and daughters first!
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@Sha
Yes, Trump.... your sons like guns... send them!
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@Sha
This concept is interesting. My Congressman, Joe You Lie Wilson, was very against the multiple deployments of reservist in Iraq and Afghanistan. These multiple deployments are natural a consequence of a nation at war for 18 years. So this position is kinda odd for a warhawk like Wilson - until you know that his son was one of the soldiers involved.
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@Sha, Exactly the first "boots on the ground" should bear the names Trump, Pompeo and Bolton.
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I did not understand the point of withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal last year, and I do not understand why we floated a new fleet, and injected bombers, and troops into the region this year. I do not understand why it is America's job to crush the country of Iran. I think it is going to cost American lives for no good reason. Perhaps someone in this administration could explain to my why we are busy trying to force this country into a war they clearly do not want.
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You are giving this Administration too much credit. They could not explain a can opener
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@Patrick Stevens
Hi Patrick,
One thing most letters leave out is the Human Catastrophe the invasion of Iraq was for Iraq and the Iraqi people.
Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed, injured, or died from dysentery. American lives are not more precious than the lives of other Human Beings.
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@Patrick Stevens,
Because over forty years ago Iran embarrassed our government.
Government's never forget.
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A super power that pulls out of an international diplomatic agreement aimed at reducing nuclear weaponry yet feels it still gets to play a role of influence via militaristic taunting as well as one who no longer recognizes the sanctity of its own institutions that made it a super power, is surely on the road to losing super power status. We did this.
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The war in Iraq started the day we won, and 16+ years later, we are still dealing with it and the destabilizing repercussions throughout the Middle East, which now include destabilization of European democracies and ironically, empowered Iran and created incentives to further Iran's nuclear weapons program.
Isn't that lesson enough?
President Trump, egged on by hawkish ideologues and cyncial partisans pushing parochial agendas, has thoughtlessly tossed away the hard work achieved by the multilateral coalition that managed to create one of the few successful efforts to control and contain nuclear proliferation He has needlessly has made the world a much more dangerous place. He has recreated the environment in which the Iran nuclear weapons program became a serious threat, not just in itself, but as a temptation to Israel to launch a strike, with potential to ignite a conflagration.
Seriously, and realistically, what is the endgame Trump, Bolton, et. al. hope to achieve? Limited military action will never end the Iranian nuclear program. Nothing short of a full scale invasion could achieve that. And it is fantasy to think that winning a war is simply a matter of destroying a country's military.
Another failed and governless state in the Middle east?
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AGREE. But in case of additional provocations this issue should not be dragged along partisan tactics. Iran is a rouge nation. Nuclear Iran and its militant proxies pose a threat to the ME and the whole world. Regime change in Iran is the only way to diffuse the dangers that the Iran fanatic regime(not the Iranian people) pose for the world.
Gosh, you mean we actually may have a Congress again that understands Article I, clause 8, section 1 of the U.S. Constitution? My memory may be bad, but I don't think we've had such a Congress for decades. The last several have been servile to the President when it comes to war powers. My guess is the reps were more concerned about getting reelected than asserting their constitutional powers. But with a widely unpopular President, Congress may (I stress may) have the fortitude to act like a Congress should.
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Trump unilaterally withdrew from the 2015 accord with Iran that placed restrictions on Iran's nuclear activities. Trump's National Security Advisor is on record as saying he wants more aggressive action against Iran ("To Stop Iran’s Bomb, Bomb Iran" NY Times op-ed). When Iran announced that it might breach the nuclear-the 2015 nuclear deal, the US send more troops to the area to add to the already formidable US forces there. And Iran is supposed to be the aggressor?
Trump's propensity to undo whatever Obama did--Paris climate accord, Iran nuclear accord, ACA, etc.--has grave consequences domestically and internationally, as is evident with the recent developments with Iran.
Trump was all too willing to travel to meet the North Korean leader to make a "deal." Perhaps he should try that with Iran instead of bowing to pressure from domestic and foreign actors who do not have the US's best interests in mind.
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Thankfully, unlike Obama and prior presidents, Trump has his own mind and isn't likely to get us into a war on someone else's say-so. If he doesn't want to do something -- and he clearly doesn't want to get us into war, as he's stated many times -- no one is going to pressure him into it.
@AACNY Referring to Trump's mind is like referring to the baby Trump's balloons flying in England. Every day we get evidence that this "mind" is firmly placed and then flipped. He's threatened to obliterate N. Korea and then he "loves this guy" who sends him "love" letters. He has time all hours of the day for his twitter account but no time for detailed briefings on important issues. 50 years ago on a mission to find a Russian sub we "accidentally" flew into Libyan airspace and luckily evaded a missile tracking radar which was tracking us. Our record with Iran is forever tainted with the orchestration of the overthrow of a democratically elected leader in 1953 and the installation of the Shah. They have no reason to trust us and some of these drones carry missiles whose effectiveness we've seen on our TV screens many times. What assurances does Iran have that this was an "unarmed" drone?
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@AACNY
Forgive me for thinking this is satire. Obama had the intelligence and foresight to seek the advice of the best...trump bragged about the best and now we have 2 war hawks and a president who is unstable at best. He pulled us out of the agreements with Iran on a whim. And who is actually running the Pentagon? It has been 6 months without someone at the helm due to this president's inability to govern with any effectiveness.
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Dealing with healthcare and immigration are Congress’s call. Look how well Congress has done. So, NO, attacking or not attacking Iran should NOT be Congress’s call.
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@Scott K
So, in a country that claims it is a 'democracy', the call for starting a war (or 'conflict' if one prefers) is up to a single individual?
How is that not merely a dictatorship?
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@Scott K
I think it is the Constitution's call.
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Everyone seems to think that Putin's influence doesn't figure in to this situation. Trump knows that if Putin is displeased he will lose Russian help in the 2020 election, and will lose any chance of getting his name on buildings in Moscow after he leaves office. He also knows that, after the Iraq debacle, which he rightly denounced, Americans are not likely to rally around the president for a war with Iraq. Nobody knew that the Middle East was so complicated!
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Don't expect Trump to abide by the Constitution. He never has, with the acquiescence of the Republican Congress. Why start now?
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THE VERY EXISTENCE OF THE US Hangs by a hair of the hare-brained rogue creature who is a monstrous substitute for president. Trump is playing chicken with the wrong people. The Iranians are playing from newly gained strength given them by Trump's unilateral withdrawal from the NOO KYUH LER accord. He has singlehandedly abandoned the coalition of nations signatories to the NOO KYUH LER accord to get the US a better deal. So far, that better deal has produced several attacks on oil tankers and the downing of a drone, all of which are suspected of having been the work of Iran. Trump doesn't get the fact that in many places, US forces confront assymetric warfare. So a small craft loaded with explosives or a team of frog men with limpet mines could be the source of an Iranian version of Pearl Harbor. Except their direct involvement would never be acknowledged. Or blame put on the US, as with the downing of the drone. In fact, dispatching surveillance drones over the naval flotilla would be a great idea. If they get adequate data. There is no definitive proof that the boat showing the Iranian military removing a mine is what it purports to be. It could be a bogus trick to mislead us. The Congress must fulfill its constitutional duty in the whether to wage war. Obama was pilloried for seeking Congressional approval to engage in conflict in Syria, a fact that was and is overlooked. Trump must do the same about Iran and everywhere else! CONGRESS MUST DO ITS WORK & ACT.
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We have no functioning Congress
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I hope Trump ignores Iran, and continues the sanctions. Let other countries deal with the problem. We don’t need the oil, we are self reliant. Let’s see how Japan handles the problems with ships being blown up with oil destined for them. Disruption of middle eastern oil will only increase American exports.
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@Jay
How very trumpian. The world goes down the toilet but American exports go up: a win-lose situation! Who could ask for more?
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I agree Congress should be in the loop - and that the declaration of war with appropriate funding is their call - but "attacking Iran" is not their call nor should it require any friction in the chain of command if there is a clear threat and an appropriate response. Too much consultation is just as bad as too little.
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@Brett That's our problem. We as citizens (a.k.a. congress) provide no friction–whatsoever. The middle east will continue to be our demise.
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