Where exactly are the sex crimes in this? They all CHOSE to submit to this idiocy, grown women. They are responsible for their choices. Someone like this cannot do anything unless people go along with it.
34
“Women stare themselves”?
Typo!
For all the typos I make daily, including in my postings, thrilled that the Times slipped one through. Even more thrilled that my aging eyes, usually the culprit, caught this one!
12
As repulsive and sickening as the orgnazation and the illustrative examples are, it's easy to see the logic and being able to understand how it happened. We know about cults and the techniques used by cult leaders and to find out which ones would be more vulnerable to follow all commands/ orders . Also we know three's a S@M community and people that enjoy being subs, only a matter of time that someone finds a way to combine the two and find followers that will help make their absolute fantasy. Like a lot of cults, eventually the spell over the followers will be broken, and are left on the new spiritual journey of how they ever got involved.
6
I'm glad this predator is going to jail.
I suppose it's trying to understand cults, but I'm amazed at why anyone would be willing to want to be in this "cool kids" club. Okay, at some point he blackmailed them, but before that?
It makes me sad. That anyone would feel the need to compete like that, or think they needed this sociopathic idiot to "improve" themselves.
17
Sounds, to me, a lot what happens in a lot of religious organizations ... all in the name of "fill in the blank" ...
18
what is the crime? Using a deceased persons credit card? Anything else?
5
“He demanded that some women stare themselves to...”
3
Truly don’t understand how any woman of any age above 18 could fall for this. I just don’t get it.
13
I followed this trial once a week or so. What became absolutely clear to me every time I read about the trial was how easy it was going to be to convict him. Lo and behold. Guilty on all charges. My one question, however, is who is paying his legal fees? And now there will be an appeal. The guy seems to have an endless source of money. If I were prosecutors and this guy has a stash of money, I would demand it be turned over to the victims. They should be compensated and be able to have the initials removed by a plastic surgeon. As to a pardon. Consider that. Today, no one considers that an impossibility. If Trump did pardon this guy, his supporters wouldn't even blink. Again....if Obama did such a thing......they would be foaming at the mouth. These people would have no problem with Jesus turning the water at the wedding into battery acid.
15
@Walking Man I support this. So Clare Bronfman (Seagrams heir) has dumped $9 million into a trust to fund the legal defense of these idiots and she was the one who largely funded the entire organization for years. The victims should start civil suits against these numpties and go after her millions.
30
Stranger than fiction.
If something doesn't make sense, run away.
16
I can't stand to look at this man.
I've read quite a few depositions by his female proteges or more like, forward-soldiers.
He used women to abuse women, to create that false sense of security a female feels with another of same age.
This was so undeniably devious and cunning.
If you want to understand a narcissistic, glib-talking psychopath, who has no remorse, can talk circles around you (read the letter he wrote to the court about his indictment), make you doubt your own sanity and judgement, coerce otherwise intelligent people to do his bidding... this is the man to study.
One thing bothers me a lot.
Why was he allowed to get away with it for so long?
The women he used are victims as well, but his so called followers and minions who helped dole out that abuse to others, need punishment... to send out a message: you don't abuse others physically and mentally, and get away with it.
51
My sympathies to the reporters and editors who had to write "Nxivm (pronounced NEX-ee-um)" in every article, because Raniere didn't understand how vowels worked.
53
@Dave Sillers
or consonants
9
This story has not caught on with the public for some reason , I suppose since its so unbelievable in these times , from another decade. The details are hard to fathom today . Who knew the suburbs of Albany were harboring such insanity in 2019?
30
@GW - I have been following this cult story since I first read about it in the NYT several years ago. I am glad this perverted creep is behind bars. All cults lead back to a man’s greedy and criminal sexual desires.
45
Young girls should be taught self defense as a compulsory class in all schools. They have to learn early on to not be vulnerable. Thank god the girls, women are spared from this doomed life from this maniac. He looks like an untrusting fellow on the first impression, how can women get fooled like this?
16
I’m not disputing that Keith Raniere is a megalomaniac, but being a megalomaniac is not a crime if the cult members were adults who gave consent as legal-aged adults to sex with Mr. Raniere.
He apparently had sex with underage girls, which is part of the criminal code and he was convicted of those criminal statutes. But using RICO statutes against a man out to create his own harem of willing, though possibly delusional, women is another example of misuse of racketeering law against something other than a criminal organization. I think he was convicted of the racketeering statutes more because of the sexually salacious behavior than because of actual crimes. There were enough actual crimes, including statutory rape and financial fraud, to convict and sentence Keith Raniere to years in prison.
10
@Maurie Beck Well, if any of the women were "delusional" it is quite possible they were legally unable to do this willingly. Commonly referred to as not able to give "consent."
RICO is exactly how these cults should be dealt with. Cults never turn out to be what one is first told they are. The rules of the game change by a very undemocratic process.
20
Should we investigate the Catholic Church, the Southern Baptists under RICO?
19
@Vickie Hodge
People in general are often delusional about sex and about charismatic individuals, especially those that use sex to further their power.
Unfortunately, many people are very susceptible to such demigods. They believe the damnedest things. But how can you make laws to reduce the threat of dangerous charismatic people? You can’t. Look at Trump.
15
Read the man's life story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Raniere
He's a complete sociopath...and a big fan of Amway, naturally.
23
@Socrates
Yes, he’s a sociopath, but there are no laws against being a sociopath. There are only laws against what societies deem criminal behavior. It seemed like the government primarily convicted Raniere on salacious behavior using RICO statutes. The only laws he actually broke involved a few instances of sex with underage girls and financial fraud, although even that is questionable because the Bronfman women gave him money of their own free will. Most of the women who he supposedly sexually enslaved were adults. Being under someone’s mental control is not the same as being locked in a dungeon, and so is not covered by criminal statutes, no matter how depraved the the behavior.
4
Maurie, do you believe sex trafficking is legal if those being trafficked were over age 18? Do you believe that Raniere should be allowed to continue doing what he is accused of doing?
Raniere does remind me of Trump who similarly uses his "charisma" to get the support of women regardless of his actions against women.
11
He also committed bank and wire fraud, stole money from an estate, dabbled in blackmail, and was accused of sex trafficking.
This isn’t an abuse of RICO, these were actual crimes. Maybe read the article.
23
How intelligent empowered worldly women could become willing accomplices to satisfy a sexual predator is just mind boggling. My brain can’t begin to go there.
This is a case for the ages in criminal psychology textbooks.
21
I see a pardon in Raniere's future.
4
No one to prosecute the cult leader who successfully inducted America into his fraudulent scheme of self-enrichment and is now shielded by the presidency?
38
He is about to be a newly minted freshman in a very complex ecosystem of social hierarchies at prison. It would be fascinating to see how he evolves in the new environment rife with extremely confident alpha males who don’t hide in closets when the cops come for them, but shoot to kill instead. The rituals he is going to encounter are unlike anything he could have cooked up and I have a hunch he will not be the one doling out personal brands. Those are booboos compared to what’s potentially coming for a guy caught with child porn and exploiting minors - could’ve been anyone’s kid.
30
@Matthew You underestimate cult leaders. They target people they can control, groom them and use them.
His under age victims were teens. There are plenty of inmates who would not consider sex with a teen of say 15 and up child sexual abuse. Plenty of men on the outside too.
4
The age of 18 for sexual consent is new in human history.
Quinceneras, sweet 16 parties are all about presenting a young woman to society as marriage material.
3
When will Trump face justice?
71
A narcissistic megalomaniac misogynist who think he is God's gift to women- treating their bodies like his property and stealing and gifting his way through life with 'unchecked powers.' Hmmm.... now, why does that sound familiar?
275
I don’t understand why we got a daily accounting of this trial. The Times seemed fixated on a thing of little important globally or even nationally. It was a tragic experience for this megalomaniac’s victims ... but why the daily obsession from this newspaper?
10
@JMF
Exactly. Who cares?
2
? The basis for news beyond the daily coverage of government, is “how often does this happen?” Planes landing safely aren’t news. Planes crashing are. I don’t know how else to explain that this was truly news. A loser like him, able to seduce hundreds of women?
12
@JMF
I’m glad they did the coverage.
This highlights how vulnerable young women are— and the perpetrator may hide behind other women.
Jones was a cult too.
Look where it lead them.
This man is beyond devious, and I would be happy when they grant him life and no parole.
There’re lessons to be learned.
13
It's shocking that in this day and age such seemingly educated people can be so stupid.
24
@MIKEinNYC I have no doubt that each and every one of those victims had vulnerability issues which made them perfect targets. Why blame the victims? They committed no crimes. Women are targeted by abusive men all the time. It is called domestic abuse or battering. They groom their victims.
31
@Vickie Hodge
Nobody is blaming them.
Ignorance isn't a crime.
1
Criminal
Racketeer
Sex trafficker
Identity thief
Child pornographer
Narcissistic personality disorder
Thank god he’s been found guilty.
Hope the victims get the health care and other care they need.
15
I truly never understand how women get sucked in. So incredibly sad! He better not benefit from any books or movie rights. Loser!
8
It sounds like in the United States one can adhere to weird secret clubs and practice unusual deeds on one another and nevertheless be able to live on and prosper for years on end,but don't ever ever overcharge a credit card! That my friends will get you in jail for the longest time.
12
Some of the commenters here are pointing out that there are many behaviors that seem inexplicable when people follow religions. The faithful might tithe -- giving 10% of their income to their church -- or put their children in harm's way by exposing them to adults who they should not have trusted.
But we need to take this questioning about belief systems further. What about the religion of guns in American? We sacrifice 100 Americans a day to this cult. There are more guns than human beings at large in the U.S. And yet we accept this because ... why again? Because the NRA is all powerful and there's nothing we can do about it? Because men who know better than us in Congress say we must sacrifice our children to this god? Because we accept domestic abuse as the natural order of things? Because we shrug at an epidemic of suicide and the sacrosanctity of tools that make it more efficient, so much so that it's been only recently that we've been able to pass ANY "red flag" laws that allow family members to petition to remove guns from people showing signs of mental illness?
ALL of the commenters here railing against the women who were part of this cult should look in the mirror and ask what faulty beliefs they accept daily: increasing homelessness, inequality in the richest nation on earth, rape culture, oppression of asylum seekers, the worship of the second amendment.
Why do YOU accept this? How can you be so uncritical and gullible? When are you going to free yourself?
71
None of this clown's predations could have occurred without the funding provided by several idle, rich, and dumb women; their prosecution should be no less vigorous and punishment no less severe.
It would be a gross miscarriage of justice if their wealth or celebrity resulted in anything less.
22
@VFO They plead guilty in exchange for testimony against Keith Raniere.
5
@VFO Idle? Rich? Dumb? Why are you blaming the victims. Were those women not victimized too?
12
Come on, everyone can’t be a victim! We live in an age where no one is responsible. Some of those woman were recruiters and enforcers.
11
What kind of conversation goes on in the Bronfman family?
21
You have to ask the same of the Sacklers.
16
The stories about this cult led me to watch HBO's "Going Clear" documentary about the "church" of Scientology. There are so many parallels, but interestingly, that documentary focuses mostly on men -- many from Hollywood -- who stayed and continue to stay in that cult for decades. It's not about gender, and it's not unique. It's about abuse, lying, denial, and mind control and it seems to be an American tradition. We're watching people who should know better -- our elected representatives -- act out this same sort of perplexing sycophantic submission and abasement to a narcissistic liar.
What happens when a con artist cult leader becomes the most powerful man in the world? We're living it. Register to vote and don't submit to the mind control.
72
What kind of excuse do these women AND men have that would possibly explain how they exposed themselves to this kind of demeaning treatment? How did they possibly rationalize any of it? All I see is self hatred and total psychosis.
9
@Bodyman Exposing themselves to demeaning treatment is not a crime, nor is it a crime to treat consenting adults in a demeaning way.
There are all kinds of human behavior that are ridiculously stupid, twisted, sick, and dangerous that are not criminal. Perhaps you think such activity should be criminal, but who is going to decide? You? Me? Most criminal statutes are there to protect the vulnerable (e.g., adults harming people weaker than themselves, including children, committing not only violent crime, but financial or property crimes). Were the women and men who joined this cult vulnerable and taken advantage of? Possibly. But there is also personal responsibility. If you know something crazy or even criminal is going on, you should have enough wherewithal to protect yourself unless you are held against your will. If you don’t protect yourself and leave because of personal weakness, that is your problem.
4
How interesting that several commenters attack only female gullibility while males, as usual, get a pass: it’s as if there’s a certain percentage of the population that pounces on every opportunity to rant about female deficiencies.
Equally baffling is the number of people who don’t think that this cult leader should be prosecuted. I thought he was indicted on more than half a dozen charges, including the particularly disgusting child pornography charge, which seems to go hand-in-hand with the statutory rape charge. Finally it’s true what many say- we appear to have an analogous situation on a national level- worship of a delusional, sadistic, dishonest, narcissistic, sexually abusive misogynist, so shock at the degree of mass gullibility should really be less shocking.
37
Cult leaders know how to exploit the bonding chemistry in our brains that all homo sapiens are endowed with. As a species, we are built to trust and rely upon each other. Some of us have more bonding chemistry than others and are more susceptible.
In particular, women, with high levels of oxytocin, would be more vulnerable to cults whose focus is sexual bonding. Men, with high levels of testosterone, would be more easily manipulated by cult leaders who attract by creating collective anger toward others or the acquisition of worldly goods. By association, the women who are bonded with men who are drawn to anger-oriented cults will join-in with their mate's involvement because of their own romantic addiction to them.
Yet a third type of cult arises through spiritual addiction and appeals to both men and women.
Raniere is the perfect example of a cult based on sexual bonding. Jim Jones exemplifies a spiritual cult leader. Hitler and Trump are excellent examples of cult leaders who enlist followers by inciting anger.
27
He always looks like he could really use a scrubbing with Brillo pads and very strong Soap.
Seriously.
14
When any person first, tells you that you are broken, in some way (in this case, a narcissistic woman), then offers rules for how to fix you, and punishments for failure to comply, that's when the red flags should be vigorously waving and you should run in the opposite direction.
So many people have small, to large, psychological problems, and they want help. So many scam artists are waiting to prey on them. They're vulnerable, as they already feel something's wrong with them, so they're easy pickings.
There are legitimate, good psychologists out there, who, without telling you what to do, but by helping you discover what's best for you, are the best. They do this through talking therapy.
Some people have legitimate brain problems and need medication. Most need help finding a way out of a bad situation, or just improving themselves. No bootcamps, beatings, sexual favors or brandings are required.
So if you need some help, vette your psychologists. Some of them are in the profession because of their own personal problems. Make sure you choose one who is not dominating, but a good listener who asks good questions ... and helps you find the path best for you.
10
@Lilou Agree entirely, especially with your red flag line. About fifteen years ago, I was in a vulnerable state, having just ended a long-term relationship. I met a married man twenty-five years my senior who offered to "fix me" after grooming me for several weeks. Needless to say, my red flag not only went up, it flew high. I ghosted him before the term was popular, and he, being what I now see is a psychopath, attempted to reach me through mutual friends and acquaintances, and when that didn't work he bad-mouthed me to those acquaintances and, apparently, to people whom I would meet several years later. It was scary but a great learning experience. What was most interesting was how portrayed himself as both a wise, brilliant, compassionate man but also a victim -- a victim of his former wife, his children, his business associates so that he elicited not only "respect," but "pity."
6
@Catlin--thanks for sharing. Good thing you paid attention to the red flags. Can't believe he tenaciously continued to bother you. Guess rejection was/is his rage button issue.
5
This cult tells us all we need to know about Trump voters - people are willing to follow a cult leader, no matter how venal, depraved, or degrading.
16
If anyone ever asks you for nude photos as collateral, don't give them to them.
You'd think people wouldn't have to be told this.
15
It's mind-boggling what Raniere did. Those who believe it wasn't wrong even more so. The rule of law is clear, Rainere needs to die in prison for not obeying the law.
Cult survivor and author Guinevere Turner sounded the alarm of how any of us can get caught in a cult because of our need for belonging, happiness and someone or something to believe in. This is where the transference can take place that even psychiatrists feed off of.
One could take advantage of people as many religious groups and organizations are for the sex and power trip, even deceiving themselves that they're helping people.
BE AWARE!
If something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't.
cult
/kəlt/
noun
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St. Olaf"
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
"a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
synonyms: sect, religious group, denomination, religious order, church, faith, faith community, belief, persuasion, affiliation, movement;
a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
"a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for;
NXIVM reminds me of the harem scene from Fellini's 8 1/2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k8cQ1x0aAk
(13:11)
1
Why is everyone talking about this poor man getting into trouble for branding? All companies do branding, I went to a store in the mall and there was a big cut out of a basketball player promoting some rubber shoes. Leave him alone, branding is not a crime.
Roseanne Roseannadanna
8
Branding in this article means branding the skin with a hot iron or other permanent marking, to demarcate one's property, as is done with cattle.
4
@Lloyd
Unclear on the concept--of humor.
5
It is worth noting that some of the branded and deeply involved were stage and screen actors. When wondering about the attributes that might lead one far down this path, consider that as a matter of routine, actors are trained to be open-minded in entering creative processes, where physical and mental vulnerability are key to creating the story/world/character/reality. On a full-time basis, they get led through a wide range of processes by directors and designers who each have their own creative methods. They are trained from a young age to remain open to the moment and to the unknown. As they learn to walk in others' shoes, they develop an extreme level of empathy. They cultivate a high degree of curiosity, as their job demands they search for meaning in people and conflict situations. I offer these thoughts as a friend of an artist who was branded at Nxivm, and others who have gone far into Landmark/EST.
27
@Artist Interesting comment. It certainly makes sense because some of these women seem like normal, rational people that got wrapped into something really crazy. I imagine that it may have seemed initially intriguing but the further they got into it, the worse it got and the harder it became to get out.
6
@Artist
Somehow I can’t imagine Benedict Cumberbatch or Helen Mirren getting onboard for a branding ceremony with a cautery tool.
7
@Artist
Disagree.
That actress, Allison mack, was on a high road to recruit young women to be abused by this odious man.
She also demonstrated behavior which mimicked his, according to women “slaves”.
Where did all that empathy and openess she must have hadn’t since she’s started acting at a young age, go then... she was very much a part and enforcer of Raniere’s dictums.
Your argument falls in the category of “formal-fallacy.”
2
After a priest in my Diocese got fired for sexual impropriety, a group of women, mostly single moms, ran a novena praying for the guy to get his job back because he was just so wonderful.
Guys who take advantage know how to find vulnerable women who they can manipulate.
Some of the posters below think that’s just too bad, they aren’t victims because they are weak and/or stupid. Shows what kind of person they are, doesn’t it.
28
@Di
Weak and/or stupid people generally are more vulnerable and manipulable. So, it is a reasonable hypothesis that at least some of the victims are weak and/or stupid. You really don't know unless you test them.
2
This is a grotesquerie on so many levels. I am saddened by the clear lack of self esteem that would allow so many vibrant, intelligent, successful, even wealthy women to follow this charlatan down such as destructive path. When the reports of branding first started to dribble out two years ago, I was shocked. I am a little heartened by this conviction, hoping it sticks on appeal. I pray that the daughters we raised will know that they are valued individuals, not numbers in a cult.
19
Wait a moment...nobody is blaming Trump for this here, I am totally shocked. Is this real?
10
@sebastian
Relax. They're not blaming Trump, but they are explicitly analogizing Raniere to Trump, and Nxvim to the Republican Party.
Trying to stop that, uh, cleverness, particularly in this venue, is a hopeless task.
5
@sebastian
Well, if this was published in Fox News you would surely find a "Thank you, Obama" comment... Ever useful, right?
6
@Wine Country Dude ....all the while contend to overlook the analogies between 'Vanguard' and WJC. The psychology is interesting. Projection, I think.
Ever notice that most men who claim to be spiritual healers and leaders of cults tend to want sexual relationships with the female members?
119
The power this guy had over innocent women is no different from the power Jim Jones or Charles Manson or predatory priests or countless other Svengalis have had. Sure it takes some degree of susceptibility to become a victim (and we all are so smug it cannot happen to anyone in our family). But is that any reason to give an evil person possessing powerful powers of persuasion a get out of jail free card, so as to allow him to continue to destroy innocent lives? What kind of society would allow such predators to run free?
21
@Mot Juste...Innocent??? I think not. Stupidity and self hatred explains it all more succinctly.
As a former member of the Moon cult and someone who has extensive knowledge about hypnosis and mind control techniques, while I understand why the prosecution let the behaviors speak for themselves, I was disappointed that there were no experts used to explain mind control, social influence. My understanding is there are videos of Raniere using NLP and other covert techniques on his victims.
30
Read your comment and then had to Google moon cult as I had never heard of it. A nice article from 2012 you wrote came up as one of the first recommended articles to read. Thank you for sharing your story and helping to educate people.
4
Read your comment and then had to Google moon cult as I had never heard of it. A nice article from 2012 you wrote came up as one of the first recommended articles to read. Thank you for sharing your story and helping to educate people. Trying to post the link here for anyone who wants to read it but this is a new phone and I'm not sure I did it right. :) still learning how to work this thing! :) https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/03/moonie-cult-leader
3
@Steve Hassan
What is NLP?
Today, too many people are surrendering their agency, dignity, and morality to narcissistic demagogues like Raniere and...Trump. Weakness, fear, and a lack of self-worth. Epictetus, Seneca, and Marcus Aurelius dealt with these failings 2,000 years ago. Their works endure for a reason.
34
I think the founder of this sect as well as his sexual "slaves" need to all go to a health-psychological clinic.
8
Well you can subjugate any weak minded person. The thing that gets me is that all you hear are that women are smarter than men but it seems they will turn on their own.
3
@Grumpy People don't have to be weak minded to get sucked-in. Cult leaders know how to manipulate the bonding chemistry that exists in every human brain.
4
This sicko should spend the rest of his life in prison. Add on an extra 20 years for giving his cult a name no one can pronounce.
60
@Very Confused Named for an antacid
23
@Very Confused
He will have the time to invent many new words while in in prison...excuse me, I mean that place that he calls prisvn.
55
@Very Confused
I see that Nxivm is pronounced NEX-ee-um
Good thing I'm not dyslexic..um
Sorry, I'm starting to babble
Will try to remember it
Next time I play Scrabble
4
My mother is a Jehovah's Witness. Even though there is not a sexual dimension to that religion, the other obligations, rituals, and entanglements are even more extreme. This just seems like a modern interpretation of the classic novel "The Story of O."
39
@LG There is a significant amount of sexual abuse that goes on among JWs. We have a friend who grew up JW who left it as an adult; all she would say is “I didn’t want my daughters to have to grow up like that.” Look for the Bravely You channel on YouTube to see the story of one young women who grew up JW not far from my hometown. Her account of how she was treated by the men of her congregation will turn your stomach.
4
It’s incredible that in the 20th century some women still let someone brainwash them.
36
@Ynoemia Villar 40% of America seems pretty brainwashed too, many man included.
68
Okay, yes, he should be in prison for life, but I'm wondering what kind of minds and the women involved really had at the time. I cannot imagine being that desperate as to even give this guy the time of day. Were these people on drugs or ?
19
Grandiose, narcissistic and delusional? Yes. Con man? I'm not so sure. And where is the personal responsibility of the women who felt they needed this man's love and attention to the point of giving sexual collateral? Do they bear any responsibility or does the culture of Metoo and Wokeness absolve the "victims" of responsibility?
17
I believe that this verdict will be overturned by the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit.
While Raniere's conduct is deplorable, it does not rise to the level of a RICO Conspiracy, which he was convicted of.
I believe he will be vindicated at the Second Circuit or in post-trial briefing submitted to the Court.
5
@Jozel
Really? So spending thousands of dollars of other people's money - even after they are dead - is legal? Taking away a foreigner's papers and locking her in a room for two years is legal? Blackmailing people is legal? Who knew!
63
@Salix
You are right about taking a dead woman's money.
However, the young woman who was confined to a room for two years was not locked in. She was given a tray of food outside her door every day; she wore the same clothes for days; she was given a pen and one piece of paper to.....keep her mind busy. No one, including her parents and sisters, spoke to her for that time period. But no, she was not actually locked in, just given no choices....
This fellow has the charisma of a masterful pimp who adroitly manipulates his stable of willing , obedient women. Kind of like the characters in the fascinating HBO series “The DEAUCE.”
8
@Moe
Masterful, with a mullet.
2
I dated a woman who belonged to Nxivm for about a year. If you didn’t know her history, you’d never suspect it – she’s one of the most normal-seeming people you could ever meet. A lot of commenters on here are critical of victims, but I think many people are more susceptible to an authoritarian-style cult-of-personality... than they think.
134
I want to hear more about your opinion of NVXIUM.
3
@m trump comes to mind
16
@m Ya think? Look at our president and his millions of followers.... Talk about an authoritarian-style cult-of-personality!
31
Glad to see there was some justice in this case.
But why is there so little information/movement regarding the Jeffrey Epstein/Alexander Acosta debacle?
22
@BEK Blackmail
10
After reading this I think I need Nexium.
29
Quite a few commenters here express that they cannot believe people can be gullible and naive enough to join such a cult.
That's not a really good attitude to have. I think one should always guard against joining any group, particularly groups that offer to "give you all the answers" or "free you" or "save" you.
Take religions. How are they any different from cults? I know people who are Catholic, (for example) and they tithe a lot of money to what is essentially a terrifying cult. Believers also put their children in harms way of pedophiles, but try telling them that. They make excuses for the priests and the Bishops.
So before you judge the people who join these truly horrifying cults, take a look at your own behavior. You might be part of a cult, but you just don't see it that way.
Granted, this guy is a particularly evil and monstrous character, but it's important to understand why anyone would follow such a narcissistic maniac, and the reasons are right in front of you, even if you choose to ignore them.
103
@Rx Not to mention the Southern Baptists, who only lately have admitted they also might have a problem with males sexually abusing women. Who woulda thunk it?
31
@Rx WOMEN- how can it be that these women tortured each other? Beyond my understanding.
13
Valerie Pires, in one sentence you say he's a con-man who stole money and also had sex with a minor and then say you couldn't convict him for "questionable" choices. Please enlighten me. (Both are crimes)
17
It is good he was found guilty.
There are many very worrisome questions left unanswered. Two are:
How could so many people, in this case mostly women, voluntarily submit to him, and help him subjugate others?
Why did it take so long for prosecutors to go after him? There have been prominent stories about Nxivm in well-read and well regarding publications for almost a decade, including Vanity Fair and the Albany Times-Union.
53
My questions exactly. It was only when the NYT ran the story about branding that an investigation was initiated. Complaints to local and State Police, New York State Department of Health and other agencies went largely ignored for many years. In depth stories by the Albany Times Union exposing criminal wrongdoing fell on deaf ears.
6
@Alex Watch the HBO documentary on the cult of Scientology. It mostly focuses on men who stayed with the organization (or are still in it) for decades and who commit abuse and lie at the behest of "church" leaders. (Kind of many Republicans now.) It's not about gender, it's about power and denial and abuse.
4
@ML
Your right, it's not about gender, though in this case it was mostly women. The worst of the recent cult cases is probably Jonestown, which as I recall involved both genders equally. It's about some failing in the human psyche that can afflict both genders. Beyond that, we simply don't know.
This man was clearly a predator, and it is unfathomable to me that women are lured into these kinds of relationships. I hope he gets the rest of his life to contemplate the damage he has done.
49
@dairyfarmersdaughter and men.... Deceptive recruitment, incremental indoctrination, secrecy, so many things Raniere used from Scientology and multi-level marketing companies.
I have always thought using the ideology that "there are no victims" and people choose to be raped and mind controlled... and make them feel like it is their doing- rather than what really is going on- predators and prey- and narcissistic pathological liars can take advantage of good people who would never dream of behaving that way.
18
@Steve Hassan
I understand the basis for your argument until things get to the point of torture. Allowing oneself to be manipulated and mesmerized, yeah, I get that. But allowing someone to carve into your skin with a cauterizing iron - nope, nothing about that makes sense to me at all.
2
@Steve Hassan Interesting comment, and I would appreciate if you would expand on how multi-level marketing companies use these techniques, especially direct marketing companies.
I have loosely followed this case since the original reports of branding, etc. I understand that life can be confusing and if you don't have a strong sense of self, you can be misguided and make bad decisions, but I really don't understand this mentality of people blindly following such obvious weird rituals, etc. How could these women (and men) not have said to themselves during their involvement that "something isn't right here." Do people really lose themselves to such an extent that they can't decipher right from wrong? I find that very hard to believe.
The guy was a creep from beginning to end and the fact that these women couldn't see that is disturbing.
31
Mixed feelings about this. I speak as someone with no inside information. I know what I read in the (credible) press. No doubt he's a con man who stole money and had sex with a minor, among other dispicable things, but, based on what I know, I could not convict him for his questionable choices and unconventional lifestyle. As his lawyer said: “You might find a lot of things about him distasteful... Mr. Raniere was involved in sexual activities that might seem repulsive, disgusting and offensive, but that does not make him a criminal." It should have been a matter of law, not morality.
4
@Valerie Pires, he was found guilty of racketeering and related crimes, not for being a cad.
33
@Valerie Pires
The article clearly states Mr. Ranier was convicted of crimes, racketeering and sex with a minor, and thus he is a convicted criminal. You are right that his disgusting conduct towards women isn’t illegal so he wasn’t being tried for that. You might want to reread the article’s second paragraph
38
@Valerie Pires stole money, sex with a minor=criminal
26
Excellent result. Hope he gets life.
66
It is only in retrospect that Nxivm has been branded a "sex cult." At the time it merely appeared to be a self-help program offering classes to help students reach their human potential. There are many programs like it.
If you go to a self-help class and they tell you that you have to set aside your judgement, get up and leave. You're being exploited--at least financially, or possibly for your network of friends and family, or even, in rare cases like this, for something more sinister.
Your judgement is there to protect you. Don't let anyone talk you out of it.
151
@M. Sorry, but the judgments of many people are delusional and self-harming. If you go to a support group for help, and cling to your preconceived ideas -- the same ones that got you into the mess, after all -- don't expect to change. One of the tenets of AA is, until you let go of your old ideas, the results are nil. A closed mind is impervious to help.
The key is an open mind, without abandoning common sense.
10
@rich
Funny you should say that—a fair number of people think AA bears more than a passing resemblance to a cult.
14
@M. "Merely appeared to be a self help program." Not so, M. Go back in time with Google and see the newspaper articles, and the blog posts that preceded them, all the way back in 2004, 2005... Some of the Executive Success Program attendees describe "psychological rape," talk about the cult-like adoration of Vanguard, the feelings of being brainwashed... one of the women ended up committing suicide. There were not "many programs like it." It's been a strange group of people for a long, long time, and it's kind of shocking it's taken this long to take them down.
24
Now that the Nxivm Cult has been convicted, does this create an opening to reenergize the Prilosec cult? Sorry, basically can't resist a little acid humor.
31
As a CASA volunteer in a case in which 37 children were removed from a ‘christian’ cult, I had to sit through two weeks of Court hearings about their removal. The stupidity, ignorance and gullibility of the believers of the ‘prophet’ was astounding to the extent that they gave him their daughters as young as eight years old as ‘ wives’. While certainly the women here were grossly abused, their stupidity, ignorance and gullibility is likewise astounding.
135
'Mr. Raniere confided to a top lieutenant that his high IQ and problem-solving ability made him the target of a government plot that rose to the “highest levels,” according to testimony.'
Simply substitute the words 'Donald Trump' for 'Mr. Raniere', and you have captured Trump perfectly with his allegations of a 'deep state' and his self proclaimed exceptional IQ. And so many other characteristics of a cult leader and his followers.
122
It's sad that so many people feel so lost and disconnected from themselves, society and grounded existence that they fall for cults like this. It's sad that there are narcissistic, greedy, power hungry jerks who are keen to exploit others by weaving an exploitive magic spell over the vulnerable and pretending that they can make life better for them. Life doesn't get better with magical thinking or by putting oneself under the control of a ruthless tyrant.
37
I am of two minds on this.
On one hand, the guy sounds creepy and he should definitely go to jail for most of the non-consensual sex tracking and racketeering stuff.
On the other hand, I recently met a camgirl who had a strange kink. She would demand nude photos as "blackmail" and if her men wouldn't obey her she would post them on her twitter feed. Guys would voluntarily pay for this service.
This seemed weird to me, and I'm glad I met her socially and not under the aegis of her "business" but it also seems like some sort of a widely accepted BDSM practice.
So I'm fine with Raniere going to jail for the money theft and for the statutory rape of the 15-year-old girl. But I'm not entirely sure that many of these charges were over consenting adults engaging in their own kinky sex lives.
3
@Dundeemundee
The article clearly states and you confirm that he was convicted of racketeering and sex with a minor. There’s nothing in the article that suggests he was convicted of anything else
16
The difference in the example you shared is that consent was given freely.
1
And THAT, as they say in legal parlance, is that.
3
As a member of the jury pool (and thankfully not a juror), I just want to applaud the jurors who were selected for their work. 6 weeks is a long time to be on a jury, and it could have been longer--as many as 10 according to the questionnaire we filled out. Thank you from the rest of us.
244
Yes, and to listen to disturbing, possibly unsettling testimony.
15
@History Prof time alone u have to be grateful for, but in cases like this i simply cant not feel sorry for those selected due to the evidence materials they must have been presented with on the daily. jury cases involving non violence are much easier to deal with, anything involving physical, emotional, and especially sexual abuse can be traumatic on the selected pool
3
@Cindella, what are you saying?
16