Europeans are right to shy away from both Iran and the United States and instead urge restraint on both countries. Europeans remember the two 20th-century wars fought on their territories.
But so much time has elapsed since Americans last faced devastating war on their own territory (most recently the mid-19th century Civil War) that they have no visceral memory of the horror of war. (Even the terrible battles of World War II are subsumed in the romanticised gloss of films in which Americans are always the victors.)
That allows the average U.S. citizen to imagine that "taking on" Iran would be relatively easy.
No doubt Israel would be an American ally in the Middle East, but the Arab countries - despite the rift between Shia Iranians and Sunni Arabs - might think twice before committing themselves to war on behalf of the United States. (It's doubtful that Sunni Arabs would enthusiastically embrace the cause of an Israeli-U.S. alliance against Iran.)
1
This article and many of the comments are so blinded by their hatred of Trump that they are willing to forget what Iran has represented for the past 30 years. I mean seriously, hate the guy...he's a real jackass sometimes. If all you want is to compare your 101 reasons to hate Trump with those already convinced, then your doing a great job. Any true change will require compromise and openness and not what this article represents.
If the left does not change their delivery, then you guarantee Trump for another 4 years.
1
@dee. Put aside any hatred of Trump. Objectively, how much credibility does Trump and his administration have? 10,000+ documented lies from Trump alone. The lies started on Day One with a pointless lie about the size of the inauguration crowd and have never stopped. He could be the most lovable president in history, but his record indicates that we can't believe a word that he says.
At his point, I'll wait for confirmation of the events from British and French intelligence.
2
They understand the Stable Genius only too well. Who WOULD trust Him ???
Sad.
68
@Phyliss Dalmatian
But Phyliss, You might be surprised to discover that Trump assures us he is trustworthy. Lets quote him from a couple of days ago:
“I like the truth. I’m actually a very honest guy.”
You must be wrong... he says so.
"In an ABC News interview, Trump told George Stephanopoulos the reason he dislikes polls showing him losing in the 2020 presidential election is because they are “fake news” and not true.Stephanopoulos asked the President, regarding the poll results:
“Why does it bother you so much?”"
It bothers him because ACTUALLY he is honest. Its like we would be surprised to ACTUALLY find out that he is very honest, despite overwhelming evidence to the actual contrary staring us in our actual faces.
WOW. How anyone could vote for him or go on TV and support this poor misunderstood honest victim with a straight face is amazing. They must ACTUALLY be deplorably dumb or perhaps ACTUALLY people who like something about him like his ACTUAL racism.
Actually a fake president who wants another fake election result in 2020.
https://secondnexus.com/news/trump-says-actually-very-honest-guy/
10
The Europeans have absolutely no grounds to ‘trust’ this criminal Administration, nor one utterance from the GOP gobs.
22
Foreign wars are so easy to win.
Trump’s supporters are so gullible.
One is a true statement, the other one a false one. Make your choice.
12
Congratulations mr Trump, America's allies no longer trust you.
Rebuilding post Trump will be a long difficult task.
12
@omar no it won’t. Rebuilding trust worldwide will be a swift global hairball cough after the election.
2
Next, the US will close the strait and tell everyone Iran did.
Craven imperialism analogy quiz: Iran supposedly attacking those tankers just like Venezuela burned aid trucks.
The US paints red lines all over the world and then steps over them to take what US .001%ers want in their pockets.
15
Don’t worry, Europe will get on board as soon as Trump offers them a favorable trade agreement (bribe).
2
Most Americans don't believe this Administration, why should Europeans ? It looks fishy indeed. No American ships were targeted, so why go to war? The self inflicted wounds of lying every day about every thing is taking it's toll. No one believes Trump or this administration except the minority of Trump cult members who don't believe their eyes or ears, only Trump's Twitter feed. We no longer have allies thanks to this contemptible POTUS. And we have no steady ground to stand on as to human rights anymore- the whole world has seen how we treat children fleeing violence- we lock them in cages.
6
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice.............uh.......won't get fooled again!
3
Republicans need war.
3
If we had continued on the path to greener energy and less reliance on fossil fuels we would not need to be escorting ships that sell oil from despotic countries like Saudi Arabia.
3
@Srini
Moreover, the U.S. has more than adequate supplies of oil from other sources (including its own domestic oil-production operations).
Doesn't matter. The US has no credibility with its current president. Even if we were attached directly, our allies would not believe him.
2
Looking st the picture provided by the State Department, I realize that I am old enough to have seen this movie before. It was from the late 1960s, called “The Gulf if Tonkin Incident”,” and was similarly a manufactured bit of fake news from government sources.
Philip L Bereano
4
Our commercial enemies in Germany and Japan are just as capable of lying and misleading naive reporters and political partisans as Trump is.
To believe their conspiracy theories or even given them the benefit of the doubt is ridiculous.
The Germans and Japanese politicians lie to their constituents and the world more than any Americans, including Trump, do.
Germany and French politicians are fighting for the freedom to pay off Iran with trade and commerce that only makes it a bigger threat to Israel and Middle East Peace.
Japan wants to buy Iranian oil, pure and simple. So we have the diplomatic “flying object.”
What we’re hearing from our German and Japanese competitors and enemies is the same old Obama-style pacifism that leads to wars.
Europe, Japan and American Socialists are telling Iran that they can be rolled just as the Brits and Americans were before the Germans and Japanese started WW II.
Further, the Germans are the people who refuse to pay their fair share for their defense and abuse their ability to collect huge trade surpluses from America.
I will not assume that our enemies and commercial competitors are being any more honest than Trump. And I am assuming that our Sec. of State Pompeo is telling the truth given the information he has at the moment. Further developments could prove him wrong, but new information is even more likely to show that Germany and Japan are trying to help Iran, not Israel or America.
@Donald Johnson.
"The Germans and Japanese politicians lie to their constituents and the world more than any Americans, including Trump, do."
At 10,000+ documented lies and growing every day, NO ONE lies to the world more than Trump.
3
It isn't just Europeans that don't believe either party in this war of sound bites and misrepresentation. Almost nobody does. Is Iran a credible government? No--and not for a long time. Is the United States? No--certainly not these days. How about Saudi Arabia? No--after murdering and dismembering a journalist in recent months and calling it an accident nobody will believe anything they say for a long time. In each of these countries what passes for leadership are thugs without any familiarity with the truth, but each one has a great attachment to exaggerations and outright lies. What makes it so dangerous is that they all need an external enemy to get their own populations to support them.
2
This is an all too familiar scenario from Washington; apply maximum pressure to force Iran to make a fatal error in judgement, and then to pounce on Iran, in there name of protecting America's freedom. The United States has a messianic thirst to engage in war; it imagines itself as the Godhead, who will rid the world of evil doers, everywhere. It won't be chicken hawks like Bolton who'll pay the price for America's erratic impulses, it'll be the young men and women of the armed forces who will die, or return home scarred by another war, brought to you by the 'land of the free'.
2
If the boat was out in broad light to retrieve the alleged mine, why is the video in black and white?
Typical military videos have all sorts of writing with data on the screen: date, time, altitude, etc. Where is that info here?
2
A US government just cannot be trusted .. period.. when it comes to middle east policies. It is heavily influenced by the interests of Israel and Saudi Arabia, both of which are terrorist countries.
3
and now we are at the brink with two untrustworthy actors and a third just off stage. the us may now avd to pay for the flawed decision to elect trump.
1
Who is going to believe the USA: this is fake news, just part of a process to start another war for oil as happened in the past. Nothing new here, but this time there will be no support from the European “allies”.
15
Trump is provoking confrontation with Shia Iran to justify selling billions of dollars worth of arms to regional adversaries such as Saudi Arabia and Oman. Trump has no experience in diplomacy, only sketchy dealing, and this latest sketchiness trades in lives in Yemen and beyond. If Iran is behind this sabotage, they’re calling his bluff in a dangerous game of brinksmanship that could ignite the world.
We need statesmanship, not an international protection racket. Ordinary people need to live in contempt of those vacuous fools who govern us with our own consent. If I were an American, I’d withdraw consent for Trump, traitor, criminal, and buffoon, to act on my behalf.
24
Do not trust Trump, Bolton or Pompeo. They lie and have no regard for the wellbeing of our country or the lives of our children. America does not want war with Iran and we better stand up against these no good fiends before they embroil us in the name of their prejudice and personal bigotry. Get up and out of the house. Stand up and march in protest in the streets. Do it!
18
@Grandma
I agree with you that we should be on the streets protesting against this, or any war! The question here is, why the leadership of the "resistance" party is not leading us on this? Easy answer. They are just lackeys of the country most interested in destroying Iran, the racist and apartheid state of Israel. Our machinery of war is bi-partisan. Our ruling class is bi-partisan and they do not care about, we, the people. They just care about their donors, the owners of the world.
maga has no allies
19
Trump and the GOP started this war and need to send their sons and daughters in to the fight. This is a fake war. Trump has20 investigations on him now and he needs the Americans to think of something else. If you believe Iran did this you are out of touch with reality.
14
Only those European countries that immediately signed big fat lucrative trade deals with Tehran are concerned.
Europe never worries they let the Americans spend their money and blood
3
Oh!, one conveniently forgot to mention Boeing! A US company with a 30 billion dollar contract!
1
@William Rodham. Look what Europe got itself into when it followed us in Iran and Afghanistan. For once, let's drop the war talk and let the Europeans take the lead. They can't do any worse than the US.
War would deflect the attention needed to Impeach Trump, and elicit the traditional "Support our commander in chief" national hypnotic state. Yes, perfect time to start a war eh Mr President?
13
@paul S. No, not quite the perfect time to start a war. If he started it now, come next November the body count will be high and voters would want to know why it isn't over. There will be more "incidents" over the next 10 months of so before war breaks out just in time to divert attention from whichever candidate eventually gets the Democratic nomination. The early (easy) victories will still be in voters' minds at the ballot box and the hard truth about a war with Iran won't sink in until after the election.
And Europe needs Iran’s oil.
2
The "evidence" is beyond fishy. A grainy black and white video (with no way of knowing who, what, where) of a non-camouflaged white vessel with people moving very nonchalantly while effortlessly handling an alleged live mine like paper maché? Wow very 'special forces' - NOT. More interesting is the crystal-clear color photo taken hours before by the US Navy of the supposed mine on the ship. Gee what was going on in the interim? The blasts were on the Omani side NOT the Iranian side of the vessels. How is it the Iranians can, let alone would, do all this under the nose of two aircraft carrier groups, the US naval base in Oman, and innumerable spy satellites? The devil is in the details the NYT is failing to provide. Notice how delicately they describe the utter lies by the US government about WMD, "misrepresentations."
18
America is totally untrustworthy and a bad actor. Just look what they did to Canada with the forced arrest of the Huawei CFO as a bargaining chip in their trade war
16
The accounts department has just dropped me a note. Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates must pay the full cost of any war, plus interest, plus the rights to build all golf resorts, or else!
8
The whole thing smells funny, IMO. Sure, it could be Iran, but what would it gain them in the long run? Sure they'd rattle the region a bit and spike oil prices, but they aren't stupid. They know Trump would accuse them the minute it hit the news, which just escalates, creates more tension, and brings the match even closer to that tinderbox. Unless there's a faction in Iran that actively wants a war, I don't follow how this would help them besides a small degree of satisfaction in giving everyone the finger because they're angry. Everyone needs to sit down, take a deep breath and look at the situation. This is twice now that this has happened. Every time something like this happens it increases the chance of a miscalculation blowing the region apart. So, now it's time to calm down and think: who is gaining from this? Who could be playing the situation. There are multiple actors in the region with the capabilities to pull this off. Iran is one, others could gain by trying to escalate an Iran/US confrontation. Honestly, with the administration we have now and it's skewed grasp of morality I have to leave the US on the table as well. So, who gains what? Screaming "Iran did it" is easy, but is it a little too easy.
10
Shades of Tonkin Gulf and "Weapons of Mass Destruction" as Bolton salivates, Pompeo agitates and Trump celebrates his birthday. What better time for POTUS to declare a mini war to keep the folks back home happy and to once again wade into the Middle East and upset that applecart one more time. Did we not learn from Iraq and Afghanistan? But then again, Trump knows little about the intricacies of foreign policy and less about the lessons of history.
15
I think Iran is on the right track. Attack tankers with minimal damages and force up oil prices and cause the USA to spend money escorting the tankers in the Persian Gulf.
7
Europeans have been actively selling weapons, training and logistics support to Middle East since before the Iraq-Iran wars. They were trying to secure a life line to Iran and were very eager to do business with that murderous regime.
Where is the Human Rights champions when you look for them? Ahem hiding behind corporate profits, that is where they are... Ahem.
Europe has no real military and/or intelligence power (as Britan is jumping ship) to act on any real event hence maximum restraint is their mantra.
Europe is a guarantor of Ukraine in return for dismantling its nuclear weapons... when Russia invaded Europe, what did they do... nothing.
Europe gave guarantees of support to Iran for dismantling its nuclear arsenal, when America backed away, what did they do... nothing.
Europe is worse than belligerent, it is irrelevent. So rich and comfortable that it can not take any pain to accomplish any strategic goal... welcome to Europe the consumer.
Urges 'Maximum Restraint'... what else it can urge?
1
Maybe Europe could provide naval escorts for Gulf oil tankers as a buffer against U.S.-Saudi anti-Iran escalation. A Middle East war would hurt Europe with the loss of oil and this could be an initiative they want and the world also needs--sensible action rather than heated rhetoric is needed and we cannot count on Donald trump, John Bolton, or Mike Pompeo to provide it.
7
The Spanish-American War, The Vietnam War and the war in Iraq all were based on contrived incidents, lies in short. In this case a Japanese owned vessel, whose owner disputes Trump's claim of Iranian mines, smells very much the same.The alleged attack was not even against an American owned ship or crewed by Americans. It sounds to me like more war for the sake of war profiteering -- just what Ike warned us about in his last address as President. He said something about being aware of the military-industrial-complex and never again committing US forces to Asia.
18
It will be very tough to lead this nation into another war in the Middle East or anywhere. The public doesn't care about a tanker in the Persian Gulf. Something along the lines of a 9-11 attack on US soil would be required. Alternatively a disruption in oil supplies due to attacks that unhinges Europe or Japan, and cause each to request US assistance might do it. I don't think Iran or Saudi Arabia (might as well mention them) are that stupid and will keep the proxies in check.
1
@Sendero Caribe. This administration doesn't care what the "public" thinks or will support. It only cares what its base will support. Our Senate lives in terror of the opinions of 30% of the population. If Trump wants war, the Senate will gladly give it to him.
I hope some European countries put some tariffs on us for our crass President and his behavior.
18
Do they distrust the U.S.? Smart of them.This administration should be trusted with absolutely nothing. Of course that will not stop them in any way shape or form from doing whatever their crazy little heads might dream up.
Belligerence is their foreign policy unless of course you are a dictator with ties to Vlad putin.
These people in this administration will do whatever it takes to move the public spotlight off their own catalogue of lawlessness.
Ones hopes they can keep up their policy of caution and common sense in the halls of European power.
8
@ m,, You mean their policy of weakness?
@bluecairnDuring the Cuban missile crisis President Kennedy showed the UN unequivocal proof that the Soviet Union was installing missiles in Cuba. Before he did that he met with our NATO allies. He offered to show them proof of USSR's activities. French President de Gaulle and Kennedy didn't like each other. In spite of this de Gaulle said that proof was unnecessary. If the President of the US said they were missile installations his word was good enough. How times have changed.
8
I see no purpose to spend money protecting the gulf. We export oil now....It's our economic competition that needs oil from the gulf, China, Europe etc...Let them step up. I'd prefer an America First policy of banning oil exports again and keeping prices cheap here. If Hormuz gets bad, our cheaper oil prices give us a competitive advantage!.. Greedy, but they'd likely do the same to us. That's Business!!!.....We'd sell a lot more arms and weapons that way too..But maybe that is Trumps plan, shut the gulf down and watch everyone panic and beg for our help..I hope so.
2
@Lindsey E. Reese when supply goes down price. Goes up across the world including the US. All oil goes to the highest bidder.
2
For sure if we act militarily against Iran we do it without the material or moral support of the EU.
Wisely, the Europeans are thinking,
“Fool me once....”
13
@Ralph Averill. But they do want Iran’s oil. That drives all their decisions.
1
From the stable genius who's given us record trade and budget deficits, a pathway to fouler air and water, and chaos on our southern border: yet another murderous, unwinnable worse-than-useless war.
18
Fake news is now as common as the new day. It's coming at us from each and every direction. If anyone has a source that can be trusted, please for the sake of mankind, pass it along.
4
Like many secular observers, I have no love for the evangelical fervor and intellectual narrowness of the Iranian regime and its adherents, but this episode reeks more of Trump perfidy than of Iranian.
How could any of our former allies trust that what Trump says is other than bombast and ignorant invention?
More likely is that this has been staged by Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Israel, the U.S., or a combination of them.
Mercenaries are a dime a dozen these days.
21
@John Briggs. So when Iran took the Norwegian crew, what was that?
1
Japanese and Norwegian tankers attacked. What do the governments of those countries have to say and why is it not reported? This is no business of the United States like most of the things that go on in the world.
10
It is sad that Americans trust Iran more than they trust their own president.
9
@WeHadAllBetterPayAttentionNow Iran aside, why should we trust Trump, a pathological liar? What motive would Iran have for doing this? UAE, Saudi, and Israeli, not to mention Bolton and Pompeo, all have more reason to provoke a confrontation between Iran and the US.
7
@WeHadAllBetterPayAttentionN. Who does?
4
The EU should just ignore all the sanctions on Iran.
11
Earlier this week, I read a post that suggested that Trump wants a war waged with a military with his name on it, which would conveniently help to re- elect him in 2020. I would offer that the men and women who are serving now in many corridors are already serving him. Does Trump have some confusion about this? Is it not clear to this president that sons and daughters, including my own, are already in harm’s way?
11
I think what auhor means by ‘European’, may mean some bigger western countries like France or Germany?
2
The Europeans would be very foolish to fall for another WMD story or Tonkin Gulf incident.
My mom could have explained to US intelligence that one of the consequences of repeatedly lying is that people stop listening to you.
22
@Damien O’Driscoll. How easily you forget that it was the Brits who gave us that information.
1
The USA is not going to war with Iran because we don’t have the military to fight a regional war, thanks to Obama. For example, in the first Gulf War, the Air Force had one hundred fifty fighter squadrons. After Obama, we had fifty. Of those fifty, only a third are full up squadrons, ready to go to war today. Another third can go to war in thirty days. The last third in sixty days. There are similar deficiencies in all the services.
2
Hallelujah! What no more overseas massacres by the Pentagon? That should be reason to celebrate. I don't think Iran plans to invade the US soon. Wasn't it enough that the US pushed Saddam Hussain into unleashing one of history's bloodiest and most horrible wars against the Iranians? Including mass use of chemical weapons with US endorsement! Oh, and there was the detail about the US overthrowing the democratically elected government of Iran and installing a bloody puppet dictatorship. I only wish you were right about US military weakness.
3
Notice how quickly Secretary of State Pompeo rushed to a microphone and camera to denounce Iran. No prior Secretary would have done that. Both Pompeo and Jon Bolton are eager to plunge us into a new Middle East war and neither of them are thoughtful or reliable persons.
22
This is the international disaster that has been predicted; Trump’s damage to allied relations plus his constant stream of untruths equal a situation where nobody believes the US government when we all need consensus and unity.
11
The German-Marshall Fund and their proxies have been anti-Trump since day one (thanks Angela Merkel!). Then we have someone from the European Council of Foreign Relations say that it is acceptable for Iran to bomb foreign ships in this article. For real. Meanwhile the UK has confirmed the U.S. assessment, as has Clinton general Admiral Stavridis (no friend of Trump).
The Europeans don't trust us on Iran? Our vaunted allies supporting a terrorist supporting theocracy a week after the remembrance of D-Day. Are these the same European deadbeats that won't pay their NATO bills? I guess it should be no surprise, with Germany building a Russian pipeline, even as the EU says Russia interfered in elections for European Parliament. Germany is more aligned with Russia, Iran and China these days than the US. So when it comes to European opinions of what we do with Iran, forgive me for not caring.
2
@TL For starters, there are no NATO bills.
8
@TL: Ignoring for the moment your fact-free tirade against our longstanding European allies, allow me to calmly ask: Why would you believe Trump, a proven serial liar, about this? Do you truly not see why so many people, Americans and Europeans alike, do not believe pretty much anything Trump says? Almost two years in to his term and 10K lies later, do you believe that Trump still deserves the benefit of the doubt?
6
It's a faint prospect, but one we must cling to, viz., there are wise and steady hands in the wheelhouse in Washington. Gulf of Tonkin, anyone? WMD? We need forthright analysis not preconfigured sound bites. Many have stated that, despite Iran being dominated by a conservative, theocratic leadership, democracy has a more viable future among the Persians than virtually anywhere else in the Mideast. Aside from Israel possibly, that is, but increasingly less so. The principles of democracy are repudiated by the Mideast monarchies, such as the House of Saud, which is only tenuously tolerated by the fanatical Wahhabi Sunni sect. It's the latter who, via exhortation and cash, enables much of the terrorism around the world and undoubtedly are as much an existential threat to Iran specifically as it is to the Shia in general. The point is that since the entirety of the carnage in the Mideast can be traced to Sunni/Shia antagonism, it's not hard to conceive of surreptitious Wahhabi manipulations aimed at bringing the Sunni fundamentalists' demonized enemies – the Israeli loving US and Shiite Iran – to blows. Hopefully, we'll be smart enough to at least examine the possibility of such subterfuge. With US credibility increasingly diminished by our Tweeter-in-Chief, we must keep the faith that there are still a few insightful administration professionals who haven't jumped ship, despite that they have been given clear and present reasons to do so.
7
From what I've read, the official government of Iran and the Revolutionary Guard - an Iranian military organization - often operate independently of one another. The Guard is funded and operated by Iranian hard liners and frequently defies the policies of the government with independent quasi-military actions.
Such independence is frequently useful to the government when it needs to deflect blame for incidents, but that independence may be only in the eyes of the bureaucracy, inasmuch and the government and the Guard are indistinguishable for practical purposes.
Iran needs to find a way to put the cuffs on the Guard, and quickly... given Trump's "win" obsession backed by Bolton's howling for blood.
1
Follow the money. Who has the most to gain from restricted oil traffic in the Gulf of Oman ? A country that needs to have sanctions lifted to give their citizens a better life or another actor that will benefit from increased oil prices or the manipulation of the stock exchange ? Once again our president casts aspersions before there is an investigation. This act could be a malfunction of one of the new defensive missiles given to the Saudis by our president. Wouldn't that be ironic?
4
Why is the press so carefully avoiding the obvious? There are 3 major beneficiaries of increased tension from attacks blamed on Iran: the hard liners in Iran (not the Iranian government or ayatollahs), Saudi Arabia, and Israel. This reporter does mention the first and has even worked up the courage to allude to Saudi Arabia but apparently naming Israel as a possible perpetrator of a false flag operation is still taboo despite their long history of such operations and Netanyahu’s urgency for some kind of distraction from his impending corruption indictment .
11
I wonder if republicans will say we can’t afford the trillions of dollars for this just like they do when we talk about services for all of us living here.
9
A war looking for an excuse. The entire US government better think twice before rushing into a disastrous conflict with Iran. A desperate nation will react desperately. Time for Trump to tone down the war rhetoric. He needs to listen to the voice of reason, from whatever party it might come.
8
I'm not sure enough that Iran did it to plunge America into another pointless war. Consider the source: Trump and Pompeo. If either told me what time it was, I'd check my own watch to be sure they weren't lying.
17
"European public opinion won’t be favorable to doing anything militarily with Mr. Trump."
That much is certain. But neither would the majority of Americans. Not after last time.
Then again, this could all be part of the strategy.
One should not forget the Russians either. They have the wherewithal and the motive to foment unrest in the region.
8
My bet it was Netanyahu. He's desperate to get his party more seats, and a war with Iran would push Israelis back to their former military strongman.
20
Contrary to European public opinion, there will most likely never be another American led incursion into the Middle East. Public opinion in the United States heavily disfavors any unilateral move. But, more to the point, there is increasing disapproval in American of Western Europe's actions. Recalcitrance and reticence from Europe is now a focus. Assuming an eventual disagreement on regional concerns, of which undeniably Europe is a part of whereas America is not, Western Europe could witness the withdrawal of the US from NATO. (Yes, it has reached that point.) So, while Europe shows distrust, America also has equivalent feelings. The Iran ballistic missile program should be an extremely large concern for Europe. Can it respond to it without America?
2
Cannot the EU's European Army take care of this if they have formed better relations with Iran than the Americans?
Why should the Americans be expected, yet once again, to come up with the $ and cannon fodder to fix this?
If Europe chooses to be a serious player, well, now it can be their turn, and by all means, they can show the world what they can accomplish through their artful skills.
4
@MKS The Europeans aren’t looking to replace the US in this war. They believe that this war is unnecessary and being ginned up by Bolton & Co, who have always wanted an Iran war. If it’s left to the Europeans there will be no war. As there should be no war.
12
@MKS
This is not Europe’s mess to clean up.
One assumes you are buying the Trump Administration’s story about Iran’s responsibility. You are in a very small minority.
7
@Ralph Averill
No sir, you are incorrect. I am not in support of your president. I simply do not see the need for Americans to have to fix everything in the world. I have lost count of the number of conflict you are in.
3
If we have learned anything from Vietnam, Iraq, or other over reaching interventions it’s that we should not jump to conclusions, we should question the intelligence that is released to the public. If the Japanese say it’s tanker was hit by a flying object which contradicts what our intelligence states then that should raise a flag. The US should take no unilateral actions of force against Iran. Even if it was Iran the response to this should be diplomatic.
23
The UN called for an independent investigation, and European leaders demand “credible evidence” to establish Iran’s guilt, given flawed intelligence that led to the US invasion in Iraq.
Britain, like in 2003, swiftly joined the US in attributing the attacks to Iran, perhaps in an effort to demonstrate its special relationship with the Trump administration.
François Heisbourg, a French defense analyst is right about not ruling out the “potential beneficiaries from the attacks” – John Bolton and pro-Israel Hawks; “wild ones in Saudi Arabia or in the Emirates or the Revolutionary Guards in Iran; or anyone who wants higher oil prices.”
Russia, which has close if sometimes strained relations with Iran, warned against “hasty conclusions”, but it can also benfit from a spike in oil prices with its hybrid warfare.
It’s both embarrassing and dangerous that Trump doesn’t get the facts right. He talked about seeing “the boat at night...trying to take the mine off” and was “exposed.” Indeed, Iran is known for being rational. It would defy all logic to attack the two ships that had ties to Japan, during Prime Minister’s visit to Iran this week,
Europeans also see how Trump lacks a sound strategy dealing with the crisis. He said any plans for talks over the nuclear deal with Iran were off, despite Abe’s mediation. He also sent the message that he was open to discussions and wanted to get Tehran to the table. As proud as Iranians are, this may well be wishful thinking.
17
@J. von Hettlingen
And rightly so. Why bother negotiating with someone whose starting position is "What's yours is mine, and what's mine is none of your business"?
8
@CPMariner Plus, why would anyone negotiate with Trump admin? They (Trump and co.) violated the treaty with Iran, which, I might add, Iran was adhering to. Trumps actions, in every say,say that he cannot be trusted.
6
How far we've fallen since the time when De Gaulle said that he didn't need to see evidence to trust the word of an American president. With thousands of documented lies to his name, no one can trust Trump even when he purports to have evidence.
35
@Barry Short
The lies predate Trump, unfortunately. We can’t pin Iraq on Trump.
4
So here we have American military might protecting Europe soil supply... I wonder what lessons Americans should draw from this?
1
@Bill
Oh. I was not aware. The tankers are European?
(I.e., what makes you think that the tankers were bound for European port?)
5
This could be the moment that all sane people have dreaded. An unstable, self-absorbed prevaricator finds an opportunity to dominate the national and international discourse in an attempt to appear as a strong leader. His effort to exploit the immigration "emergency" failed to bring him the ROI he expected. What better gamble than a bona fide shooting war?
22
@Beth Yep, this is the SANE reaction—Trump's starting a shooting war to look strong.
You nailed it.
The lack of self-awareness around here is profound.
3
Trump doesn't believe his own intelligence agencies, so where is he getting the intel? Russia? Israel? The Saudis?
30
Unless the Prince of Whales calls personally I know that he could care less what Europe thinks.
8
Nobody believes this president because nothing he ever sAys is true
26
There will not be a war with Iran. The US Military inferstructue”hard and soft” cannot hold up to another conflict anytime soon. Iran knows this and will continue to play their games. If you think the Iraq war was long , disturbing and drawn out wait until a rocket flies into Iran. It’s sad but if Trump really wants to flush the toilet on our country he will enter a conflict with this regime. Afghanistan brought the Soviet Union to their knees . Iran could very well destroy this nation and ruin us financially for decades to come
27
@Robert Iapaluccio
Nice prediction, what with a completely incompetent and unpredictable stable genius as commander in chief.
10
So much Kremlin propaganda trying to blame the US. The sad thing is that most people reading will believe them because it fits in with what they want to believe. Trump is crazy, but he isn't that kind of crazy. Why not take US intelligence's word rather than Trump's, the same way you did about Russian interference in the election. Don't get sucked down the rabbit hole of conspiracism.
2
@Benjo
So when Bolton said he was going to celebrate in Tehran in 2018 it was just my lying eyes?
10
@Benjo
"... but he isn't that kind of crazy."....
based on what, exactly?
11
@Benjo
"Trump is crazy, but he isn't that kind of crazy."
Prove it. (You can't.)
"Why not take US intelligence's word rather than Trump's, the same way you did about Russian interference in the election."
It isn't US intelligence. It is the rightwing extremists Pompeo and Bolton who have already lied any number of times.
5
Totally, fundamentally, and entirely not interested in what the EU has to say on ANY matters relating to security/military affairs.
They do not even come close to covering their basic NATO responsibilities/obligations, and some like GER are in iran's bed so deeply one wonders if they have seen the daylight in the last 20 years.
2
Shame you didn’t listen to France before invading Iraq though, right?
29
@bob jonesSo, youd rather trust the US that has lied itself into both iraq and Vietnam?
29
@bob jones
Trumpian drivel. Not a shred of truth or reality to be found.
17
If one is trying to scuttle a boat they don’t succeed by removing the explosives.
16
It is reckless of the president or anyone in the administration to make an accusation of this magnitude without solid evidence and before consulting with our allies.
17
Actually I distrust Trump, Pompeo, and Bolton more than I distrust the Iranians. Never thought I'd say that about the people in the White House.
53
It’s almost as Bush,Cheney, Powell,and Bolton’s ideas are still wafting through the White House.
4
"“There’s a lot of suspicion in Europe about American motives,” said François Heisbourg, a French defense analyst. “The maritime milieu is especially susceptible to manipulation — remember the Gulf of Tonkin,” a dubious report of naval hostilities that President Lyndon B. Johnson used to escalate the war in Vietnam. And then, he said, are the bitter memories of the Iraq war, which was based on faulty intelligence and badly split Europe."
Europe is taking the right stand. For all we know, Trump could have ordered special ops to attack the ships and then blame it on Iran. The US is looking fro a way in to help the Saudis in a Sunni-Shi'ite ear.
The US false intelligence to start the Iraq war set off a chain of events that has completely destabilized democracies around the world and created so called "nationalist movements" throughout Europe and even the US. Trump's lies just adds fuel to this fire.
By the way, when the US finally comes up with Saddam Hussein's ' WMD, then maybe the US will have some credibility again. In the mean time: Fool me once; shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.
27
Japanese and Norwegian tankers get attacked.
Take a deep breath and think a moment.
It does not need to be an American problem.
Other countries get more oil from the region.
It is our problem only if we make it our problem.
For once, let someone else worry about it.
11
I agree. Let the powerful European armies take care of this issue. They should be guarding the gulf of Oman...They get along better with Iran than we do..It's time to give Europe the chance to be useful...As they have no oil and we export it. They can spend money to keep the strait open..I'm sure they are ready to step up! lol
3
@Lindsey E. Reese
Like when the NATO allies rushed to America's defence after 9/11? Or do you mean the numerous wars when Australia helped our allies the USA in? Like Vietnam, Afghanistan after 9/11 or Iraq? Australia is not in NATO but the only time NATO allied assistance has ever been enacted is in support for America after 9/11 from European NATO countries. I say that in acknowledgement of America's wonderful support for the Allies in WW2. You see that is what allies are for. Perhaps remind President Trump who does everything he can to dismantle NATO for Puti. You need your friends; though he prefers Kim, Vlad and other assorted dictators.
Perhaps avoid following the imposter president into victimhood... that guy who inherited vast privilege and squandered it all.
12
@Bob Guthrie Thanks for your thoughts. I am not an isolationist. Since 1945 many countries have found protection under the American umbrella. The US is far weaker and poorer, in different ways than in 1945. The US can no longer afford what it once could. Obligations must change as we evolve. One change is to not make the US a cop on every beat.
2
“There’s a lot of suspicion in Europe about American motives.”
There's a lot of suspicion in the U.S. as well. I have long believed that the final act of desperation by Trump, when his nonsense is finally coming back to destroy him, will be to start a war.
It appears that this is happening.
24
@Al Luongo
He wouldn't do that Al. He cares deeply for his fellow Americans. He just sold an $8 million house for 13 million dollars to an Indonesian politician. He really cares about everybody. And he says he is "actually" an honest guy. He is kind of loveable and cuddly like a great big Teddy Bear. A Russian bear admittedly with a great big Russian asset to enhance that unique posture.
4
If America goes to war with Iran she likely to be short of allies. The European powers will be reluctant participate to say the least. It could be just Israel and some Arab countries as allies. If Hezbollah mobilises or the Syria army manoeuvres near the Golan, Israel could be forced to withdraw its air force, which would see the United States starring alone in a seas and sands epic tragedy with the camel corps galloping in the distance.
10
Other than ensuring a steady flow of ME money to the tRumps and Kushners, can anybody explain why we are spending our tax dollars (and likely our childrens' blood once again) to defend SAWEDI oil shipments to China and Japan? I though we had enough "freedom molecules" that we don't need to provide mercenaries to the SAWEDI ALQUEDIAN royals?
16
It took me quite some time to learn, that neither tanker was owned or operated by an American shipping line. Strange, no - you’d think the countries where they were from cared about them more than we do. Maybe they don’t trust the convenient conflict, Bibi and Kushner want. The President is toxic.
24
"As the stakes rise" and D. Trump gets more rattled and desperate with the spiralling political crises at home, he may fall a prey to the machinations of Neocons like Bolton who paid no price for the American lives they engineered to the slaughter on the false pretext of WMDs.
Trump must be checked, not only for America but for the entire civilized world.
16
The Europeans are cowards afraid of a coward. Otherwise they would have stood up to Trump and kept the nuclear accord alive, by implementing the Special Purpose Vehicle designed to reward Iran for faithfully fulfilling the conditions of the JPOA.
I blame Europe for cowering to U.S. unilateralism, for absorbing the millions of refugees caused by U.S. Wars of Choice, for not boycotting Israel and Saudi Arabia for respective war crimes and genocide, for extraditing Julian Assange without demanding the extradition of war criminals Bolton and Cheney in exchange, and so on.
Europe needs to find its spine, before it sinks into the moral morass created by the U.S.A..
18
They like our 320,000 troops to guard them. Saves them billions of dollars. They can speak, but it should only be very softly..They have no stick...They should be fearful. If the gulf is shut off, their economy will tank and they will have to deal with the Russians for oil.
@Hamid Varzi
The relevant EU powers (UK, France, Germany, say that INSTEX is going live 'in the very near future'.
The (Iranian) deadline for making it happen is July 7.
So, a bit premature to be throwing around accusations of cowardice.
Even if I am to admit Iran is behind this (I'm not yet convinced), this is yet another example of why it makes no sense to push away and alienate all your allies. If I'm Europe, I am not lifting one finger to follow this country back into another quagmire. Why would you? Either the US stupidly escalates this and we'll be stuck dealing with it ourselves or with any luck, someone capable or rational thought, or even just any thought period, will be elected in 2020. We have really set the bar that low at this point.
16
No worries, Scot - America will not go it alone into this proxy war with Iran. Are you forgetting Trump’s besties ?? MBS and Netanyahu. All itching for a war.
8
@Nfa True! Which is still a different way of saying we'll do everything. Just the way Netanyahu likes it. He is like that friend you have that gets into bar fights because he knows his big strong friend stands behind him to do the actual fight and pay the tab.
7
We Europeans can't understand how the American voters could pick such a person as Mr Trump for president? We just can not understand! 4 more years and you got your own Putin!
31
@Wilfred Karlsen. The American voters picked Hillary Clinton. Our antiquated electoral system picked Trump.
3
We don’t understand it either. Evidently there is something intoxicating about racial bigotry to our fellow Americans.
4
@Wilfred Karlsen: More than half of Americans can't understand either, Wilfred. Remember that more than half of us didn't vote for him.
3
The USA says it is a mine...; the owner of the boat says otherwise:
https://nypost.com/2019/06/14/japanese-operator-sailors-saw-flying-objects-before-oil-tanker-attack/
10
"Japanese shipping executives insisted that their tanker was hit not by a mine, as American officials had implied, but by a “flying object.”"
The pic of toe boat deoesn't show any detail of their activity.
It's beyond sad when the ROW CANNOT trust the U.S., cannot take it at its word, cannot depend on the U.S. defending peace and freedom.
WE (our fake president, specifically) BROKE OUR WORD, and withdrew, unilaterally, from the Iran nuclear deal. Iran kept their word. WE created the distrust that now overshadows any and all statements coming from DC, especially from the WH.
It makes NO SENSE fro Iran to attack a Japanese ship when the Japanese Prime Minister id visiting Tehran. NONE.
I believe Iran, and I smell a Mo Bone Saw rat.
18
Europe should know better. De-escalation doesn't work with Fascists. They only understand and respect force!
3
You have a point, and maybe (who knows?) we do know better, at least to recognize a fascist when we see one .
Those of us with just a bit of memory for sure know it usually always starts with promising a return to a past glory, messing up with the media until they get discredited and turned into fake news, interfering with the judiciary system, fueling racism and bigotry, alienating checks and balances principles, granting themselves surprising executive privileges, forging awkward relations with likeminded... and that, yes, they hardly respect anything but force.
That’s maybe exactly why many of us Europeans are a bit confused these days. Except for the Brits of course. But considering the chaotic Brexit mess they triggered how surprising is that?
2
Trump is the author of Fake News. You reap what you sow Donnie.
10
The US should just shut up and stay out of this.
The hawk Bolton, plus the clown Pompeo followed closely by the dotard just want to create a diversion to mask the fact that the dotard is failing in the polls and won’t be reelected in 2020 !
If anyone is behind this it will be Israel.
17
The US and Iran should settle this toe to toe once and for all.
We are bitter enemies and one must be brought to heel.
1
And you’ll first in line to “ruck up,” yes?
13
@There,
I suggest we concentrate on bitter enemies within our own country first.
15
why are they our foes... the most advanced of all the 'arab' countries and unfortunately the one WE have done the most to harm
16
Our biggest danger does not come from Iran but within. We have a madman at our helm. And a Senate who refused to do anything about him.
83
I am feeling dread for what may well be this administration’s “WMD moment.” Our country has already fought its longest and most costly war over the ego and misinformation of George W. Bush. Given that ego and misinformation are Trump’s stock-in-trade, I fear the worst. God help us all.
73
@Fatigued
Congress can refuse to vote approval; Congress can refuse to fund a war for profit in the ME. Trump is a draft dodger; Bolton avoided combat throughout his service career. These are not leaders to trust. I don't trust the Israelis or the Saudis. I don't trust Trump's friendship with Netanyahu, Putin, Erdogan, Duterte, or any other two-bit dictator he admires. I don't trust Trump.
3
What's that, Trump? Another wolf, but it's real this time?
28
Mike Pompeo, our Secretary of State, is an evangelical who openly speaks about the rapture.
From the NYT, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/30/us/politics/pompeo-christian-policy.html
"Mr. Pompeo talks about the rapture. “We will continue to fight these battles,” he said at a “God and Country Rally” in 2015, because there is a “never-ending struggle” until “the rapture.”"
Why do I feel that Pompeo, George W. Bush and the other evangelicals in the Republican Party are trying to be God's Little Helpers and give the 'end times' a little push? Are these judicious government representatives acting for their whole country or are they egotistically thinking that they have Biblical role in the fate of the world? Give me a break!
Is it any wonder why we don't get comprehensive climate change policies from these people? These people don't even believe the world is going to exist! Why would they even bother?
For a secular citizen such as myself, is this any way to run a country? Is there any reason for other countries to do anything else our country other than fear us?
66
@JD Ripper
You know what they say: people, who fall for one fantastical belief, are likely to fall for many others.
I hope that Europe realizes that many USA citizens are hesitant to accept anything from the Trump Administration. The history of Bush2 and the lies about Iraq add fuel to our mistrust. I guess the Brits (at least their government officials) are willing to waste more blood and treasure on another USA war folly.
Shameful.
11
@JD Ripper
In the time of Dubya, the French government was so disturbed about his going on about "Gog and Magog" in his telephone calls to get them to join the invasion of Iraq, that they called in Swiss Protestant theologians to explain to them what the President of the USA was blabbering about. I am not making this up.
5
Does anyone know what Bolton’s specific agenda regarding Iran is? What exactly is behind this man? Is he religious? Supports another nation? What exactly? Profits from war?
19
@Mathias...Maybe he’s trying to fight a proxy war to compensate for the one he dodged fifty years ago.
7
Read the recent New Yorker profile on Bolton. Terrifying, in every sense of the word.
3
The ghost of Iraq's WMD! US has no evidence and their 'mine' story contradicts those on the ship. Dangerous stuff, this. Just what a failing President loves!
46
Suddenly, Trump finds U.S. Intelligence reports reliable!
54
@Ashwood8 Show us the reports. We didn't see anything specific, and we didn't hear from the CIA, NSA, or DIA directly. Just Pompeo and the lying WH.
16
@Ashwood8
Intelligence reports? Have you seen them? As I recall the CIA refuted the Bush/Cheney claims of WMD in Iraq. U.N. Inspectors also refuted those claims. Now we have U.N. Inspectors stating Iran is in compliance; I believe the Inspectors. I do not believe Trump or Bolton.
8
The endgame here is to create a pretext to degrade Iran’s nuclear infrastructure, with an aerial assault. Even Trump and Bolton aren’t stupid enough to contemplate a ground war. But you can be sure there’ll be intense blowback, with civilian and military targets, in the Middle East and Europe, and possibly on US soil.
All this is being done for Israel’s benefit. The usual suspects will profit from munitions sales, and the US taxpayer will be on the hook for half a trillion in order to level swathes of Iran. Hard to believe Americans are stupid enough to support another disastrous military intervention sold on lies, but then again perhaps not. Has there been a more bloodthirsty nation on the planet this past half century?
32
Dear man from Tampa:
Please use the prefix “stupid” before any reference to American actors/policy, then you’ll have not misspoken.
6
@Xoxarle Yes there was, the USSR and we know how that road turns out.
3
@Xoxarle:
i share your [realistically sinister] view and am
prompted to expand the question you close with.
looking at US history since the nation's inception,
much blood was shed when the pilgrim fathers discovered
that they were expected to share their "newfound" land
with people who were already there. what followed?
and how did things develop
over more than just "this past half century"?
5
It would be foolish for the Iranian leadership to believe that they can accurately forecast the reactions of Trump, Bolton, Pompeo and the other malignant psychopaths now ruling America.
On the other hand, it would be reckless of the Iranian leadership not to take steps to defend their nation from the aggressions by the malignant psychopaths ruling America.
The only hope is that between the Chinese, the Russians and the Europeans, Iran can be sufficiently protected from America to relieve the Iranian leadership from taking drastic steps.
If, however, Europe capitulates to the American boycott, Iran will build nuclear warheads because it will have no rational alternative. Then, we all will be very, very lucky if Trump and his savage Republican henchmen do not blow up the planet.
28
@Been There:
in my [european] country we've been petitioning so
our gov't won't follow in any warmonger's footsteps.
yet, from past experience, i remember my country's
government refusing to join a "coalition of the willing",
i.e. refusing to send troops BUT providing plenty of
logistics to facilitate a war against a "rogue state" ...
at times i ask myself: will my gov't fear US sanctions in
case our chancellor says: "we won't go to war no more?"
we'll keep petitioning.
2
We should ask ourselves who would benefit most immediately from the U.S.A. taking military action against Iran? First, I would suggest, Netanyahu who faces election yet again and quite likely imprisonment if he cannot win a majority that will grant him immunity from criminal conviction while he serves as Prime Minister. Second, Mohammad Bin Salman, still trying to “make his bones” after the disaster of the murder of Khassoghi. Are one, or both, of them involved in the bombing/mining of ships in the Straight of Hormuz? Certainly both Saudi Arabia and Israel have the capability and the incentive.
37
@Mike M. Don't forget MBZ, from Emirates, and Kushner, personally. All could be behind this.
10
Trump would benefit from a war with Iran. Anyone who doubts that the US is capable of doing this should have a look at the history of the CIA around the world.
7
@Donna S And start with Iran!
3
Pompeo and Bolton are right wing neo cons, much like Cheney and Rumsfeld, but in this case they serve a psychopath. I am very distrustful of anything that they say. This is a very dangerous situation and we have a president with a very serious psychopathology who controls a deadly military and who has nuclear codes.
For my part I am going to be praying about this and hope the rest of the world resists and prevents any military intervention from Trump and his crazies.
43
Trump’s failure to understand why words matter and his complete lack of credibility based on his interminable lies should be an object lesson. Unfortunately Trump is incapable of learning. Still more evidence of why he is unfit for office.
29
Praying for no war.
Wag the Dog is way too likely.
20
There will not only be no support from Europe or NATO if there is a strike on Iran but also the American public will be in an uproar. Trump is a foolish man who has entrapped himself in a web spun by himself and his aggressive team of Bolton and Pompeo...the Trifecta of Destruction. I say good for Europe, that in spite of its own present issues and problems it still has a semblance of maturity, wisdom, and global leadership. Trump has dissed our allies from day one. He is now reaping what he has sown. This is not about our European neighbors getting even with this reckless man. There is no vindictiveness here. It is about living through too many wars as recent as Iraq and Afghanistan and learning that as inept as Bush was, Trump is far, far more dangerous and should not be trusted, ever.
37
"President Trump said flatly on Friday that “Iran did do it.”"
Pompeo told him so, in his short morning briefing. FOX News concurred.
We already knew those things. Trump telling us again means nothing, less than nothing.
16
Once again the USA is looking for a third party to solve our problems, this time it’s Europe.
Hundreds of thousands protest in France and Hong Kong but the apathetic American liberals sit on their hands and complain and do nothing.
Maybe Pelosi will save us or Mueller or the New York AG.
What will it take to wake us up. Certainly not another school shooting of children.
8
Iran stands to gain absolutely nothing (and lose everything) from these attacks. Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Trump (way behind in the polls and in search of diversion), do stand to gain. Until we are presented with verifiable hardcore evidence, no American should believe anything Pompeo or anyone else in this untrustworthy destructive administration has to say.
We're still paying the tab in so many ways for the infamously false Bush/Cheney WMD story, shamelessly sold to us in the wake of 9/11 fears with visions of mushroom clouds... Shameless lies and visions used to "justify" their invasion of Iraq. At the time, 85% of Americans bought those lies... And now millions are dead or still suffering.
And other than the countless billions made by insider war profiteers, who gained?
This time around, most of us should know better.
This time around, all of us should demand better
34
@Jeff
"Iran stands to gain absolutely nothing" -- you assume that Iran acts rationally, or that they think like you do. Probably they do not. Clearly, they had threatened to block the straight of hormuz. That is a plain fact, rational or not. So it would not be surprising if they backed up their threat with action.
The false flag theory is even less plausible given that none of the attacks were directly on the US. Attacking a Japanese ship? That is no way to rally the American public behind a war.
For all I care let Bermuda, the Isle of Man, the Seychelles or whatever country these ships are registered in go to war with Iran, who I maintain is the most likely culprit.
I love it. America's allies are tired of the lies and stupidity. America is quickly isolating itself in the world.
China, Russia and the EU are moving toward a new trading currency other than the dollar so that the US can no longer use sanctions blackmail to abuse it's power. This is happening very soon. The US will soon have very little power over anything.
16
@aaron
Russia is a fascist dictatorship with less GDP than Canada, so who cares about them. China is (some sort of) communist dictatorship who is also intent on bullying its perceived foes, which, from time to time, Russia is one of. The EU has nothing in common with either country, but will surely look out for itself. How do you see that all working out?
Look, if you want to hold rubles or renminbi you already can. Go for it. Best of luck.
If not Iran, then who? I don't buy the "wag the dog" false-flag conspiracy theories.
2
@Benjo
The Saudis, the Israelis, the UAE, Qatar? I do not believe the government of Iran did this. They have a Revolutionary Guard they can question. They would be both stupid and reckless to threaten passage through the Strait of Hormuz. They are neither of those things. The U.S. "leadership" is capable of this; MBS is capable; Netanyahu is capable.
5
Well, maybe some "agent provocateur" who spills more oil into the fire?
Why would Iran do something like this?
WMD anywhere around?
3
So the president, in a telephone interview with his state-run propaganda network, says “it’s Iran.” Who in his or her right mind would be stupid enough to trust a certified liar? The Japanese operator of one of the damaged tankers confirmed that the damage was accomplished by “a flying object.” I believe those who were and saw and heard this. I do not trust American “intelligence” to do anything but confirm the president’s desire to drum up support for hostilities against Iran.
This is a jumped-up provocation engineered by John Bolton and SecState Mike Pompeo. And cutting right to the chase, what they—and the president—are after is the oil fields in Iran.
The hands of the Royal House of Saud are not clean here, either. That country was the incubator for the 9/11 attacks yet the Trump administration’s rolling in fleas for them. And why is Bibi silent on this matter? Is he waiting for America to do what he dares not: openly attack Iran?
How long will it be before we hear the WWII dirge, “When Johnny Comes Marching Home, Hurrah, Hurrah?”
20
Brought to you by the same people who so well played the weapons of mass destruction into the loss of American lives and a Trillion dollars tacked onto the national debt.
21
@Tom
It’s not only USA blood and treasure. Don’t forget the millions of Iraqis who were killed, maimed, psychologically traumatized, internally displaced, and/or scattered as refugees... plus the physical destruction of property. All so that Bush2 could lay claim to being a “war president”, and Cheney could salivate while dreaming about Iraqi oil.
I never fell for the WMD lies, having kept up with conditions in Iraq since the early 1990s; so, I’m not about to fall for lies about Iran being an imminent threat to the USA. However, I’m still waiting for something to make that whole Iraq “war” price worthwhile.
8
We cannot trust the US, Iran, or the Saudis.
18
TheEuropeans have it right. Trump has it all wrong.
28
Ah, yes! Can you say Tonkin Gulf Incident? Maybe Trump can make up for his abject cowardice during the Vietnam War by sending one of his spawn to the Arabian Gulf for the big dust up.
23
Having been on the receiving end of Trump acting the tough guy with allies and long time friends, Europe just does not trust Trump. He did it, not they.
16
I don’t doubt Mr. Erlanger’s bona fides, or his motives. But why doesn’t the Times label this as “news analysis,” as this is what this is.
3
The problem with having a POTUS that is a pathological liar and likes to assail our allies is that they won't believe him or come to USA's defense even when attacked by a hostile nation.
18
Let me agree: you cannot trust Iran and you cannot trust a United States run by Trump and his crooks.
11
@n1789:
even djt's predecessors have been wire-tapping
my country's chancellor's phone for many years.
"wire-tapping among friends is a no-go", she said.
we know: it's a go. so, who should i trust?
as to iran:
they've had their share of US interference
to their detriment since [at least] 1953 and
would rather be left undisturbed.
4
@n1789
I do trust U.N. Inspectors. Iran is in compliance with Obama's Agreement. I do not trust Trump, Pompeo, or Bolton. They remind me of the Axis leaders we fought in WWII. They keep looking for another for another Gulf of Tonkin, or another fake WMD thing. They will try to start a Reichstag Fire and use it to plunge the U.S. into a ME war. The Mic will be really happy.
7
How do we know if Trump is lying, easy his lips are moving.
14
I would suggest the NY Times journalists consider the past and how it relates to now and leadership in power.
Timeline:
https://worldhistoryproject.org/topics/adolf-hitler/page/2
An essay the year before all H broke loose in Germany, disturbing in it's applicability to today:
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/anthologies/fascism-and-world-war-ii
3
The mullahs are in panic mode. Watch what happens when their lights go out, the pumps grind gears and one of their toy craft meets a speed bump.
1
Of one thing you may be sure: the chest-thumpers never go fight.
Ever.
7
No way - never. We cannot accept a war of Trump's making. We cannot allow a single person to die because of his gross incompetence and ignorance.
14
Another fiasco from the lying CIA lab. My guess is that Wall Street titans did it to increase the price of oil .
4
Why should we believe Treasonous Trump, a known compulsive lier, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel, or any of the other players in the Middle East. Each person, or country, have shown themselves time and again to be untrustworthy and full of hidden agendas.
9
Congratulations, the US is a rogue state.
13
If Trumpists are wondering why anybody cares that Trump’s an inveterate liar who jumps into nutbar decisions, who believes every conspiracy theory he’s shown, who casually attacks our intelligence services and every alliance we have, who surrounds himself with incompetents and warhawks and racists, and who’s displayed himself to the world as a fool who’s easily manipulated...
Well, this is why.
16
The Iran crisis is a great distraction for bad poll numbers and a possibility, trump may not be re-elected! Distraction and lying a trump speciality!
12
Europeans no longer trust the President of the United States.
12
This has the fingerprints of MEK, the anti-Iran militant terrorist group from Albania. They coordinate closely with Pompeo and Bolton, Howard Dean, and others. If they colluded to create this new Gulf of Tonkin incident, their treason sentence should be merciless, i.e., you’ll need to shorten the rope for Pompeo.
7
Sad that we can’t trust the word of our own administration anymore than we can trust the poohbahs of Iran.
11
trump is like the boy who cried wolf (10,000+ times), to Americans and to the world. THE superpower with criminal dementia. And Europe is the adult in the room....as messed up as it is.
We are truly in dangerous waters, and not because of the Iranians.
12
"European governments may also think [...]". Even with a "may" this is a bold claim.
Even without Trump, who trusts the US anyway?
Remember the Bay of Pigs? Remember the WMD in Iraq?
Remember Mossadegh?
Yet another "Manchurian incident", yet another war, really?
12
They trust us a LOT more than they trust Iran. Quit embellishing.
1
I distrust Trump and his henchmen more than any other player but Mitch McConnell. What a deplorable, dishonest, unbalanced, and rotten President we have. And the US Senate Majority Leader is even worse.
18
There is zero proof that this "patrol boat" is Iranian. It could be Saudi. It could be Mossad. It could be special effects. Doesn't pass the smell test, these statements from an administration of proven liars. And this publication needs to stop doing stenography for warmongers. The last thing we need is more Americans dying over the control of oil.
15
I hope our allies don't get sucked into another false intelligence-driven war by our lying administration.
10
This whole episode stinks of being a diversion, manufactured in Washington by Bolton, Pompeo and Trump, to help propel the U.S. to war in order to reelect Trump.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, believes Trump's version of this. Nobody believes that Iran had anything to do with this. The only question is whether it was Blackwater or some other mercenary organization that executed this or whether Bolton et al. got U.A.E. or MBS or someone else to do it.
I repeat: nobody believes Trump's version. The whole thing stinks of WMDs in Iraq. It's a bunch of lies.
16
The Iranians went right up to the mine and removed it. A tanker is about 1,000 feet long. Remarkable that, at a glance, the Iranians were able to determine that there were no other mines on the ship's hull, above or below the waterline.
2
@NorthernVirginia
The point here is not whether they may have been responsible. The point is whether there is doubt, since we're talking about war/killing/cultural destruction. As you can see in other comments, there is doubt. Here are, for example, two feasible alternative scenarios:
1. It all could have been staged by the US or its allies in order to increase international pressure on Iran.
2. Removing the mine could have been a police action by Iran to determine its origin.
As to your question of the boaters' certainty in their action, as you imply, they may have known there were no other mines because they or their compatriots placed the mine(s), or they may have taken a cavalier chance in order to secure information in a heated situation.
For there to be "no doubt," certainty has to be 100%. Despite Trump's statements, we do not have that, regardless of how one leans in this debate.
5
@Aaron
We have nothing on those Iranian bomb technicians. Every other bomb squad on planet earth would risk just one man to approach a worn-out backpack. The Iranians ride right up to a limpet mine sticking on the side of a ship, and while everyone is crowded around the bow and nice and close to the mine, one of them yanks it off the side.
The indifference displayed by those Iranians removing the mine tells you that:
1. They were the ones who set it, and
2. They knew there were no other mines because, again, they placed the mines on the ship.
@NorthernVirginia
Hi. Yeah I’m not actually disagreeing with your observation, only your certainty. Removing it is different than planting it, a bunch of guys in robes doesn’t make them Iranian. Again, they may have, but do you KNOW? Because the stakes are rather high, no?
1
We, the U.S., had a working nonproliferation treaty with Iran until the Trump administration took office. Trump is unable to behave as an adult in any situation and has obviously come under the extreme influence of both Pompeo and Bolton, who are both itching for war with Iran. How many wars would this be that the U.S. is waging at the same time?
Listen to some of the European governments for some hope for restraint here.
9
@Howie Lisnoff
"We, the U.S., had a working nonproliferation treaty..."
Wrong. We, the people of the world had a working...
You do realise that this was a multilateral treaty? China, Russia, Europe etc.
And that it's been trashed by the actions of one American, Not by 'we'. That the remaining signatories are trying to hold this together despite, what many outside the US believe to be American provocation.
6
Conservative hawks have led us into two recent, disasters. Vietnam and Iraq. Both based on the shakiest of evidence. Now another potential disaster,same kind of source, again based on shaky evidence. Have we learned nothing from the past?
12
When every intelligence agency in the US agreed that the Russians interfered substantially in the 2016 elections. trump stated he talked with Putin and trump accepted Putins denial whole heartily, discrediting our own intelligence.
With lightening quick response trump claims Iran responsible for the attacks on oil tankers, our intelligence agency so far remain silent. Why? Suspicions lie every where concerning this incident and at this time trump, Pompeo, and Bolton are looking for ways, fabricating lies to bolster their case; aka, WMD from the Cheney/Bush era.
How apropos with trump facing his own domestic troubles this incident should fall into his lap, a perfect distraction he badly needs.
8
This has the fingerprints of Saudi Arabia written all over it! They absolutely don’t want Iran to reach any kind of detante with the rest of the world’s big powers. It would mean that Iran is able to start selling its oil again into the world market and lower oil prices. Additionally, it would make Iran a more credible and stable player on the world stage undermining SA’s economic might and political hegemony in the region. Not to mention, the Shia-Sunni rivalry since ancient times. Iran is not that reckless a country and the mullahs have been masterful at self-preservation. They know that a war with the US carpet bombing from above would mean the end of their regime and country as history has known it. All to the benefit of SA and it’s neighbors.
8
This is precisely why Donald Trump’s rhetoric is so dangerous. How can we believe him when he supports adversaries’ denials one day, and then rejects others’ the next? Political expediency has its costs, and we will all realize them as our dangerous, unpredictable president potentially moves us toward war.
8
It's too bad Trump's Presidency leads to European suspicion of American motives. Trump's anti-Iran lies have led outsiders to discount USA accounts of recent events. I guess, given historical reviews of Viet Nam war Presidential press releases, the non-USA press will do well to continue their skepticism.
4
It is easy to speculate. For instance, there are many countries or actors that would not mind if the USA went to war with Iran. Many of those countries are in a position to make it look like Iran is too blame. Some examples: Russia, Israel, Saudi Arabia, other gulf states, perhaps even Turkey, perhaps even parts of the Iranian government or proxies for Iran. Even some business person who has made some financial bets on oil could hire mercenaries.
In other news, who is the US ambassador to the UN nowadays? Can they influence the world stage in any way?
1
The ship owner says it was a flying object. The bone-spur minions say it was a mine. Sounds like the different stories that came out of Saudi Arabia with the murder of Khashoggi.
I could infer that the Saudis had a story concocted and went ahead with the fake removal of a mine, not knowing that the eye witnesses would have a different story.
6
It's difficult to sort out the 'truth' when everyone is being deceptive. My version of the story is that the Iranians have developed a jet pack allowing their commandos to fly undetected across the Straits to carry multiple limpet mines with timers which they can toss to magnetically attach to tanker hulls, thus allowing thedm to zoom away without a trace before there is an explosion. This , at least, reconciles the US version (limpet mines)and the Japanese version (flying objects).
1
I can certainly see Trump in the Oval Office querying Pompeo and Bolton about what it would take to start a war with Iran, then concluding the meeting with his standard "Get it done".
9
The U.S. version of events has been contradicted by the captain of the Japanese oil tanker, the Kokuka Courageous.
The U.S. insists that the damage was caused by limpet mines (usually placed under the waterline of a ship by divers when the ship is at a port--a difficult operation because the divers must get in and out of a dock where there is often security, including underwater cameras.)
The captain says that his ship was hit by “flying objects”. The crew saw a hole from the first object and saw the second object flying through the air. A photo that the U.S military labeled with arrows to point to a “limpet mine” appears to point only to a hole well above the waterline where limpet mines don’t usually go!
Given that Yemen’s Houthi fighters have been targeting ships with drones and missiles for several years, it could be another Houthi attack. Even if Iran (whether the state or non-state actors) is providing some funds or weapons to the Houthi, the Houthi appear capable of doing a lot of damage by themselves. The Houthis already stole a lot of weaponry that the U.S. sold to the Yemen government, so oil tankers could be in danger from U.S. munitions!
The Yemen War highlights the disadvantage nation states have when facing guerilla fighters. The U.S. could attack Iran—and that wouldn't stop irregular Yemen fighters who get their weapons from many sources.
Here's an informative article:
"The Houthi War Machine: From Guerilla War To State Capture” by Michael Knights
2
So- this is where we are now. Not surprising, when you have a President who lies about everything and anything, large or small, the result is people will not trust what you say.
11
I think there are two major facts people are missing in regards to the US Iran relationship.
1. Iran has never stopped attacking US troops, Israeli civilians or the legitimate government in Iraq. The “deal” signed did nothing to stop these activities. It only supplied cash and access to sanctions relief which allowed easier operations against US personnel and assets. I get the European desire for peace, we all want it, but how long would each of those countries endure Iran killing their soldiers all while seeking nuclear weapons so they can launch on Israel? It’s not as simple as Iranians attaching limpet mines to oil tanker.
2. A much bigger failure of US intelligence was the complete lack of understanding North Korea’s nuclear weapon development. We were told up until the Obama Administration left office that they were “years away”. Within a year we find out they already have them as well as the ability to launch them on shorter range missiles.
We did nothing worthwhile to stop Iran’s warmongering by proxy the past decade nor did we do a thing to stop the madman in North Korea. These problems didn’t just pop up out of the blue. Iran is and has been since the revolution to all of the western world. Their leaderships idea of how life should be lived is wholly incompatible with western civilization. The same can be said for North Korea.
I’m not saying war is the answer, just imploring people to wake up to the reality of the threat that each country poses to all of us.
3
Nathalie Tocci, a senior adviser to the European foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, said, “Before we blame someone, we need credible evidence.” Iranians are deeply rational actors, she said. And for Iran to have attacked a Japanese ship when the Japanese prime minister was in Tehran “is not an especially rational thing to do.”
And we also know how brazen and careless the Saudi Kingdom can be, and that the Trump administration (family) is willing to find blame elsewhere. It would be no surprise to anyone to find bad faith among these actors.
6
The tanker in the poor quality video isn't the same one shown in still photos.
The tanker that was allegedly attacked was two colors: black and red, while the one shown in the video was one color.
4
Sure, and a plane didn't hit the Pentagon on 9/11.
I stand corrected.
There were two tankers, and one matches the video. But the video is very poor, grainy and seems to have been edited. It's suspect.
De Gaulle, when offered by the US diplomat in Paris to see pictures proving that the Soviets were about to deploy nuclear missile in Cuba, replied that he didn’t need to see them; the word of the American President was enough to him.
Now, with Trump and his mafia, the Europeans can’t trust a video footage.
That’s how low the standing of the USA has fallen in the world.
4
Who will believe a person who has told more than 5000 lies while in office. Trump, the boy who cried wolf.
6
"Iranians are deeply rational actors." Too bad the White House isn't.
My first thought when hearing the news of this attack, is that I now trust most other governments in the world more than my own.
5
Speaker Pelosi has said the House will try to block the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia. This is a possible ruse to allow trump to declare a national emergency.
1
This is an “ operation “ staged by the saudis with full support and assistance by the United States unless proven otherwise.
3
Don’t forget Israel!
4
Key data point:
Abe of Japan is visiting Iran so Iran takes that moment to attack a Japanese oil tanker?
Does not compute.
And the Japanese oil company, per other media reports, states categorically that the vessel had no underwater explosion?
Hmm.
8
"In the absence of hard intelligence, with American agencies notably quiet, European governments — with the possible exception of Britain — are wary about blaming Iran"
Im not Journalism major but video of Iranians removing unexploded mines in the night from the ship sounds like hard intelligence to me.
Despite all the negative comments about our own Government in the NYT's I choose to believe the people on the front lines who have to deal with this Regime in Tehran who have said repeatedly they want to stop the flow of oil through the sea lanes.
If the facts change then so be it.
1
@Alternate Reality
The video shows some unidentified shadowy figures doing, er, something.
You'd plunge the world into chaos on the basis of that?
2
We don't have to go straight into war just because Iran destroyed a couple of private oil tankers. Let's be reasonable. Yes, Iran almost certainly was responsible. Yes, all out war with Iran is still a bad idea.
“Distrusting both Iran and U.S.”
Well, that pretty much sums it up.
5
Who would have thought it. I a contest about who to believe (US or Iran), people are unsure. What does this say about the loss of US credibility - or respect - in a Trumpian world. Shame America shame.
11
I look forward to the day when we have a president in the White House who is trusted and respected by the global community.
6
Given the slowly unfolding narrative over the damages to the two ships, and the limited data on the source of the mines and missiles, it is too soon for quick judgments on these events. It is noteworthy that the European reactions to this situation are considerably restrained and cautious. Even the oil shock seems tempered at this time, but again, it is a developing situation crying out for an explanation of what exactly is going on.
14
After ripping a perfectly working nuclear deal and imposing unjustified sanctions on Iran, what is that Trump/Pompeo/Bolton/MBS/Netanyahu wants to achieve? Give up missile development? What this administration and company have proved is the legitimate need for Iran to develope its defenses, particularly that Israel, Saudi Arabia and US constantly threatens Iran with attacks or toppling their government just like the CIA did it before. What are the rules or laws that determine the level of defenses which country should or should not have? While US arms Saudi Arabia and tiny UAE and Israel with advanced missiles, bombs, fighter jets and other sophisticated weaponery yet denies Iran the same. In terms of fairness and rightfulness, the logic does not add up. Wild, Wild West reigns. RIGHT OR WRONG DOES NOT LEGITIMIZE A CLAIM BUT POWER DOES. No matter what, US, Russia, China or whomever has the military power is ALWAYS RIGHT. Trust and respect is vanished.
20
I find it very odd that nobody seems to be looking at one of the Yemen factions for having done this, and the earlier sabotage attempts. They are openly in a state of war with Saudi Arabia and their allies at present, so it makes sense they would strike at them economically.
But in America, when one needs a badly needed distraction from pressure on the domestic front, a war against a Muslim nation more than fits the bill.
51
Those Yemeni factions are backed by Iran, so it would still lead back to them.
1
Agreed but remember the Houthis are nothing more than an Iranian proxy, so an attack by the Houthis is essentially an attack by Iran.
1
@Canadian Roy
agree. my first thought was that trump et al are behind this.
2
Iran's leader has said very strongly that Iran was not involved. A similar denial from Putin regarding proven Russian interference in the election was good enough for Trump, so why not for Iran?
80
@Garry Taylor
for the obvious reason that Trump wants a diversion at this point, and this is it.
He knows, most commenters believe, that this was a setup designed in Washington and executed by mercenaries or Saudi or UAE (or whomever) at the behest of Bolton and his henchmen.
9
@Garry Taylor
Because it makes no sense. Both the Russians and the Saudis need the price of oil to go up. Engineering a fake war with Iran will help that.
3
@Garry Taylor Cause Israel and Saudia Arabia can't start a war if that was enough.
4
President Trump has demonstrated that he has neither the foresight nor temperament to resolve anything like this without costing the taxpayers trillions of dollars.
The opinions voiced of adviser John Bolton are at best, shots in the dark, perhaps worse.
These are not U. S. ships and the evidence is murky.
There are conflicting reports and questionable motives abounding.
This is not a stupid TV game show and any half-baked reactions will be very expensive and long lasting.
29
@J J Davies. I’ll take Trump’s tactics on ISIS over Obama’s any day. Obama couldn’t even get Democrat’s to support his agreement as a treaty before an election. Name one conflict Trump has had militarily that wasnt cleaning up an Obama mess?
@Jay
Let's review a quote from Brett McMurk , who was Trump's Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL.
""There isn't really a decision-making style. I mean, decisions are erratic. They're done without process, without deliberation, without the input of experts. And in the case of Syria, with President Trump, there is no process.""
'Nuff said.
I did not mention Obama. If you really have to talk about Obama, you'll have to tune back to your Fox pundits. But I do hope you keep reading the Times, as it may prevent your classifying name-calling as Trump's military conflicts.
Am not too sure about the last part though, as Trump himself classified avoiding Venereal disease in New York as his Vietnam military service.
1
But of course the opportunistic Brits have to fall in line again, same as they did with Saddams non existing WMD issue.
I’m really looking fwd to day when they finally have left the EU. Good riddance, we are no longer interested in your wars!
15
The video puts me in mind of the grainy photographs allegedly confirming a North Vietnamese attack on the USS Maddox in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964. Or Saddam's "mobile WMD labs" in 2003. And we all know where those pieces of incontrovertible evidence led.
49
@Phillip Usher. The grainy film reminds me of photos of reported sightings of the Loch Ness Monster. There is probably more veracity in the photos of Nessie
7
"We are all Europeans now."
14
If this is true we can thank trump for pulling out of the Iran deal and Netanyahu for influencing the weak-minded and uninformed trump! This is what happens when an unqualified, and uninformed person is selected for president. Disaster on all levels.
42
No one is going to believe Pompeo or Trump. They've each lied too many times, already.
45
Just as Kim Jong un saw what happened to Gaddafi, Iraq has seen Trump climbing down to Kim Jong un. They're thinking this guy is a simpleton; we had a deal; we were sticking to it; the great deal maker is an un-indicted co-conspirator without the confidence of people with an IQ over 80; He himself is a low IQ individual 1 who tosses at tissues at his own subjects.
They are not stupid.
18
@Bob Guthrie
I thought I typed in Iran but it came out Iraq. Sorry. I should have checked carefully before clicking submit. I meant Iran.
3
'Hyping'?
Why not use the word like lying, or error prone intelligence, etc... 'hyping' seems to be a very ambiguous if not dishonest representation of the issue.
US led NATO went into Iraq, Kosovo, etc on 'hyped' pretenses with awful consequences....
The more we pursue such misadventures, the less our word will mean.
You grab a bull by the horns, and a man by his word....
15
The Europeans are wise to be wary of both Iran and the US. The present situation in the Gulf of Oman bears a suspicious
resemblance to events in the Tonkin Gulf 50 years ago that led to the war in Vietnam, and in 2003 the Republicans showed their readiness to start an unnecessary war in Iraq that they thought would benefit an unpopular Republican president before an election year. It's Deja vu all over again.
29
Why would Iran do something this idiot while they are at the same time abiding by an agreement made with Iran, us, and our allies - an agreement that our country's "president" reneged on.
When I ask myself, "Who would do something this idiotic" and then cast my eyes on Trump (a con man and irate lunatic) and Pompeo (an arrogant immoral liar who should have been tried at the Hague for war crimes), it makes more sense that Trump and Pompeo wold do something this idiotic.
59
Certainly given Trump’s sterling international reputation and his credibility both at home and abroad, will serve him well in bringing the world together to unite behind the USA and punish Iran.
Then again, probably not.
10
I’m afraid America’s word cannot be trusted. This is about so much more than Iraq. It is way worse. Trump has told more than 5000 lies in his term in office. Worse, should Trump decide his base worrying about war might be advantageous to his re-election and decide to push things even further, his personality disorders will see any “allies” not prepared to back him militarily as a full on betrayal. These are the things your irresponsibility in electing such a man have worried the rest of the world since General Flynn stood at the podium like a teenage hard-boy and warned Iran it was “on notice”. He does not behave rationally, takes no instruction from any expert, or even believes any facts that do not align with his gut. This is a man who claims he knows more about “nuclear” than anyone in government because his uncle once taught “nuclear” at Princeton. He’s fired every general that didn’t agree with him and is now surrounded by sycophants who apparently believe Trump really is A Very Stable Genius. Even if his staff thought he were going in the direction of war, would they even try to mount a successful challenge? I don’t fear Iran, at least they are generally rational. Trump could take us all down.
71
@Em-Jayne
Just one kind correction, if I may. Trump is closing in on 11,000 lies while in office, according to Trump's fact checker of record, the Washington Post. Otherwise, I'd say your comment is spot on.
16
A year ago, who would have thought that brutal regimes led by Maduro and now Khamenei would diffuse the war mongering of Trump, Bolton and Pompeo by documenting events and simply speaking truth to power.
7
@Charlie Nothing ever indicated that Maduro and Khamenei were ever war mongers. The US on the other hand never found a war it didn't like.
3
In the 1980s, Reagan reflagged the tankers in the area as American and gave them navy escorts, including minesweepers. Why not do that now? I know that the navy's capabilities are diminished these days but surely they are still capable of this?
2
Our allies, our country, and Iran entered into an agreement. Iran is still abiding by the agreement. It's Trump who reneged.
Is it any surprise, really, that our allies don't trust Trump? I am a US citizen, and I wouldn't even trust him as far as I could throw him.
Maybe it's because my father fought in WWII and showed respect for the Geneva Convention, but I also don't trust that slimeball Pompeo either.
38
"Mindful of Washington’s exaggerations and outright misrepresentations of intelligence leading up to the Iraq war..."
I would like to see someone held accountable for these "exaggerations and misrepresentations". I feel like we have seen one massive governmental//regulatory//military failure after another, and the American people's Big Response seems to have been to send Mr. Trump to Washington. We need more.
9
A rational foreign policy in the Middle East would try to nudge Iran to reforms, curb their nuclear ambitions, built a broad coalition and isolate medieval Saudi Arabia.
Would? Well was...
That’s what the Obama administration pursued with Europeans and all permanent members of the UN Security Council.
Then came Trump who visited Saudi Arabia first, showers the Saudis with weapons and withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal.
The same foolishness led him to not join the TTP and instead enter a trade war with China.
He also ended the detente with Cuba, has canceled financial support for Central America and failed bigly in Venezuela.
And then there is his extraordinary friendship with Kim.
His foreign “policy” - predictable but certainly faster than predicted- has become a complete geopolitical disaster.
A fool on a fool’s errand.
31
I will never forget Colin Powell lying straight faced, with obviously dodged photos, to the UN General Assembly in his attempt to persuade the world that Iraq has WoMD.
A US led coalition invaded Iraq, thousands of coalition forces and hundreds of thousands of Iraquians died in due course. Not one single weapon of mass destruction was found.
A hoax, a blatant lie.
And now, with the Trump administration being notorious for bending the truth, anyone should believe Pompeo? Without tangible verifyable evidence, just because of one murky video?
NEVER. This is just to give "the mustache" a reason to finally attack Iran.
There is no reason to assume that the US is trustworthy and honest.
44
It's not just Europeans who distrust this American government, well over half of US citizens are deeply troubled by, and distrustful of, everything this administration says and does. They care not a fig for truth, facts, or people other than themselves.
42
Yep.
1
The President and his administration simply cannot be trusted to speak the truth about anything. I don't believe a word that they utter, and I certainly would not support going to war with Iran, knowing how eager that some of them are to do so.
23
I remember seeing slides at U.N. Security Council about Iraq's Chemical, Biological, and Nuclear weapons. It is election time, sit back and watch. China and Iran seem to be new poster boys to scare us.
12
"Distrusting Both Iran and US..."
Isn't it a shame that we've sunk this far, that our long-time allies can't believe anything our Administration says, any more than they believe a dictatorial regime and propaganda factory like Iran.
15
@Mark Miller I remember the propaganda factory that is pre-Iraq war US.
Let's not kid ourselves. The US media is pretty big on US propaganda.
4
@Mark Miller
"a dictatorial regime and propaganda factory"
before I finished reading the sentence I thought you were describinig the US-Gov-Situation. Since POTUS is reigning without the congress and is crying fakenews all the time (not to count his lies).
1
I agree with the European position on this issue. Trump is yet to show that he has the foggiest idea of what "hard intelligence" is. His standard position on whatever is that his opinion is reality and any thing that disagrees with his position is "fake news. His credibility on this issue is identical to all the other stories he tells and then retracts shortly there after.
17
People of Europe, allow me to apologize on behalf of the majority of Americans who know from daily experience that Trump should not be trusted under any circumstance. Please, just try to keep the peace until 2020, when we can vote this criminal lunatic out of office and restore a Government that actually follows the will of the majority. We shouldn't have to wait that long, I know, because he should have been impeached already, but, unfortunately, we also have a Senate majority so corrupted by special interests, that they no longer care about truth, fairness, the American way, or even the lives of tens of thousands of innocent people who would be killed in any conflict with Iran. They also seem to believe that Trump is a kind of King with absolute authority. We'll try to get rid of them too. It won't be easy, but we can do it. Thanks for your patience.
44
Fight against the census question. It’s a direct attack to gerrymander nationally districts for minority rule by republicans and deny representation to everyone else.
8
So Iran is committing terrorism against these ships because they are trying to send signals? Either that, or because they are evil. I think my alternative is more likely.
1
@DRS Or maybe neither? Iran doesn't need to send signals. The US sent a bad signal walking away from the nuclear deal.
3
@DRS
So where is the evidence? The Japanese captain says his boat was hit by a flying object, no mines. The US claims Iran planted mines on the boats then an Iranian boat came by and removed a mine from the Japanese tanker near the explosion site. One thing we know for a fact due to massive amounts of evidence is that Trump is a liar and Pompeo is very misleading.
5
Sadly, it seems like Mr. Trump wants to create an issue as a distraction. What better distraction than a war!
I wouldn’t put it passed him to manufacture a war.
I don’t blame the Europeans for their caution and skepticism.
Trump is a wild card. No telling what he might do to salvage his image.
19
I'm sorry, but you want me to believe that the hawks like Pompeo and Bolton would never stoop to subterfuge in order to propagate their agenda in this region, then allow third-party intelligence to validate the claim of Iranian malfeasance. The idea that the US is the only capable agency to scrutinize these events and the only eyes on the most important commercial thoroughfare for oil transport in the world is insulting to the intelligence abilities of the gulf states. To paraphrase Don Rumsfeld (2002), one known "known" is that the US has been known to lie in order to justify military action.
21
Europe seems to be the adult in the room, hoping that hysteria won't stampede into an all out war, especially when arrogant warmonger Bolton demands satisfaction in humiliating other countries into submission. After unilaterally breaking the nuclear agreement with Iran, these United States are choking off Iran's economy, with the tenuous hope it will cause a change of their guard, and the conversion of a theistic government into a democracy. We ought to know, by now, that that is a dream; and when an animal is corralled into a corner, it will fight back with all it's might, case of Iran. And meanwhile, we may be co-responsible of hunger and despair of it's people. Why is it that our current president has shot dead 'Ms Diplomacy'? Does he really think (being generous about someone that doesn't read nor listen to his own intelligentsia) that brute force has any redeemable value?
8
The article says that there’s a lot of suspicion in Europe about the Trump administration's motives. There are also a lot of people here in this country who distrust his words and his motives.
He's been warned many times that his constant lies would lead to distrust when he really wanted others to follow his administration's lead.
As it is, both Trump and Pompeo won't be given the benefit of the doubt on anything important. They'll have to provide a lot of hard and fast proof for everything that they say and even that might not be enough.
It shouldn't be put past them, their cohorts and their cronies to manufacture "proof". Everything that they say should be taken with a pound (not a grain) of salt!!
13
The trouble is when the White House and the President lies so much and on a daily basis it is difficult to know whether or not to believe anything that is said by them.
9
There are consequences to having a President who is neither respected nor trusted by the rest of the world. We have become used to Pres. Trump's constant lies and falsehoods, but other countries have not. We are used to a President who pulls the U.S. out of multilateral deals because he believes only in his own 1-on-1 deal making, but our once allies resent it. Our administration may be correct that Iran is behind the tanker attacks, but unless it has proof, the distrust that the administration has fostered has now come full circle, and we cannot count on any allies.
9
I’m so glad of Europe’s skepticism.
I think, the following is Mr Trump’s strategy.
Cripple the enemy first, hence the shackling of Iran’s economy; compromise its biggest export. Then watch how they react, and react they have to!
Do you expect Iran to go down lightly... no, when it will punch, it would aim for something that would get everyone’s attention.
Their modus operandi would be along the lines of— if we can’t do business in Gulf, well then, no one can— so hence.
In the interim, USA moves in ships/military into the region, waiting silently, watching the trap it has laid, for the fly to move into the web... they know it’s a matter of time.
That video is grainy, you can’t tell who the people are, friend of mine at MIT/ military studies said, you can’t tell much, it is a cropped video! You don’t see where the boat came from. Japanese know more, and were in communication with Iranian authorities.
Also, if the fly doesn’t move swiftly into the trap, is US going to force Iran’s hand by moving some chess pieces of its own? We know what Mr Bush did before Iraq war... we also know Mr Trump is far more unscrupulous and already does swift business in lies... so try the same rules of engagement?
It’s like someone throws a punch, the other dude retaliates but camera catches the second guy— you didn’t see the primary provocation— so, what gives now?
When in a crisis, you want to trust your government, but now, I feel there are two enemies... the one abroad, the one within!
11
The interior one is the more dangerous of the two.@Ash.
5
Not surprising that Europe is skeptical in view of Trump’s daily lies and denigration of our intelligence services.
11
The cruel truth is, the Normandy invasions had they happened today will undoubtedly bring about massive protests around the world against us interference. Hard to believe, ludicrous? Well, this is the reality of life now. It is not in a dystopian future.
The intelligence in question is, or should be: Does our mob-boss/president have any? The litany of blustery miss-information is staggering. Who in the world actually trusts him outside of his constant blustering?
10
Does anyone remember the "Maine" and what actually sank that US battleship?
8
The U.S. has sold its integrity at going out of business sale prices. Now, when the rest of the world comes looking for it, our only reply is to say "Trust us, we'll be getting more soon."
6
Pompeo's initial press briefing said it all....
The phrasing he used when accusing Iran was that "This Government" has determined their guilt, not that intelligence sources had "high confidence" in that finding. None of the briefings I've heard since then have made claims relating to US intelligence agencies agreeing with the determination that Iran was directly involved.
I'm not willing to go so far as to suggest that the US itself is guilty of carrying out these actions, but I do have strong doubts that there is anywhere near enough credible intel to make that determination.
30
@Steve
I do not trust this American admin to tell the truth about anything. It would not surprise me if this is a ruse and somehow the Saudis are involved.
15
@MidWest
I wouldn't trust this american admin when i've asked them for the time.
6
@Steve
Steve, I am an American. I don’t trust Trump and his “administration” one iota. I don’t believe a word Trump, Bolton nor Pompeo utters.
5
If the US wants it's citizens and the EU and other nations to accept the accusations they are peddling... they need to provide a video that has not been deliberately degraded to cloud any real detail as to what it is focused on.
Military imaging is very good, and it's not like it's some national security secret that needs to be obfuscated with deliberate degradation.
Something is fishy here.
57
My first reaction to this story was that Pompeyo might very well be lying and that it wasn’t possible to trust him unless our European allies confirmed it. I am appalled that I am thinking this way. I am not a person who would normally be that distrustful but this administration tells so many blatant lies so often and so easily that it is impossible to trust them. I cannot imagine how terrible it must be to be in the armed forces at the moment, bound to obey a commander in chief who is so manifestly untrustworthy. How could we possibly send our men and women into battle when we cannot have any faith in the honor or veracity of POTUS and his appointees? I hope the military hierarchy will demand to see the evidence and protect our troops from having to fight without clear evidence of provocation and cause.
132
I hope you’re right about the military leadership rejecting another aggressive, amoral interference in a manufactured conflict that will ensure the US military’s human treasure of our VOLUNTEER forces, willing to literally give ownership of their own bodies, dead or alive.
The GOP is willing to (again!) treat our armed forces like pawns in a grotesque game of sacrificing our own morally superior warfighters to the greedy bank accounts of the all-to-happy-to line their pockets with the blood of our best and brightest. Are we seriously willing to allow this to happen again, after witnessing the depravity of the last GOP administration?
We are better than this.
Let’s put an end to the reckless greed that drives the “Grand(?) Old Party” cowards who aren’t fit to lick the boots of the lowest ranked war fighters.
11
If we're going to start blaming Iran on the basis of video that's of wretched quality, maybe we should also ask why we don't have better imagery on which to make political/military decisions.
Was the video blurred on purpose to provide wiggle room for Trump's interpretation of it?
And just how technologically advanced -- or shaky -- is the U.S. if this is the best we can do when it comes to recording military movements like this.
Trump has cried wolf once too often and European skepticism over our "evidence" is now the result, possibly to our long-term detriment. Who can blame them?
89
@bijom
Trump is not the first American president to "cry wolf."
"Remember the Main?"
Remember "The Gulf of Tonkin Incident?"
Remember "Weapons of Mass Destruction?"
The U.S.A. has a long and ignoble history of falsifying excuses to start wars.
33
@bijom
It looks to me as though the image has been deliberately downgraded in quality.... something you would do if you wanted to obfuscate what is actually on the footage. You cannot even tell what tanker that is, nor does the tanker appear to be damaged and on fire.. so it is very suspicious and needs better verification.
We know from prior videos provided by the military over the years that they do have very good imaging technology could easily show much better detail and put doubts to rest as to whose ship that was, what it was doing, and what the occupants were doing.
Instead.. we get this blurry image with only Pompeos word for what it means.
20
@Chuck
I'm skeptical as well, but it looks to me like this is captured by some form of FLIR instead of straight-up video which would account for the less than stellar quality.
The most obvious scenario would be that this action was carried out under the supposed veil of darkness to prevent detection, but that US forces had some kind of FLIR enabled platform (ship, aircraft, drone, etc) close enough to be able to capture the action via infra-red.
2
So Europe distrusts the US as much as it does Iran.
Well, as a veteran of a decade-long war in retaliation for the phony “Gulf of Tonkin Incident,” so do I.
For starters, what motive would the Iranians have to attack Norwegian and Japanese flag vessels, in the first place?
What’s more, how does one fail at blowing up an oil tanker that is pretty much a floating bomb to begin with? Unless the objective was to just create superficial damage to provoke further action.
There are just too many unanswered questions in this narrative.
171
GOP lies fooled us once. Shame on us if they do it again.
12
So wait. These American agencies that are cited as providing proof are the same ones routinely marginalized and disenfranchised?
45
@Eden - Exactly. We should not believe them because they said Russians were interfering. And someone at the intelligence department might have made a Hillary contribution once. Oh, wait. Donald Trump has made Hillary contributions before.
8
@Eden
You got it.
No reason to be surprised by this.. though I do wonder at the military providing degraded video when we know they have extremely good video imaging.. even on battlefield cameras on soldier. If we cannot even trust the military to not be a puppet for the warhawks.. we are in serious jeopardy as a nation.
9
That grainy video looks like captures of Big Foot in a turban or a Yeti sighting
3
Unfortunately, the U.S. has little credibility. How many "wars" have we started on faulty intel-er- lies? The answer: most.
Now an image of a smoking oil tanker- proves absolutely nothing in today's shape-shifting technology.
The lack of credibility of U.S.- and Frienemies didn't begin with this administration's hawks-of-war; it is merely continuing the pattern of previous administrations.
It appears though- some world leaders have finally tired of blind obeisance to U.S. ventures in far-flung places excused as U.S. national interest.
11
@Candlewick
The military has the most credibility of any component of the US. Which begs the question.. why did they agree to allow a public video of obvious deliberate degradation so as to confuse what can be seen.. and hence allow Pompeo the narrative of his choosing.
Note: I am not saying the military is perfect... it does have it's issues.. but deliberate misinformation to the public is not something they are known for. What is known is politicians with an agenda routinely use and abuse the military for political reasons.
3
@chuck The US military now reports to Trump. While the US military is brilliant and honorable, they do not control what happens when information and decisions move to elected politicians who have no honor.
7
@Paul
No disagreement from me on that Paul.
1
This escalation of a most serious nature is a result of the USA withdrawing unilaterally from the Iran agreement negotiated together with our Allies, Russia and Iran. A unique agreement in a dangerous world.
Trump has proclaimed this agreement the worst ever yet has failed to indicate specifically what more he wants Iran to reasonably do .
Before he puts Americans in harms way and millions of innocent people at risk he needs to spell out an alternative plan.
Absent of this the ongoing motivation for cancelling the agreement seems to be a desire to poke Obama in the eye and or a desire to do the bidding of Netanyahu and the Saudis.
Let’s return to mature, reflective diplomacy, not war
46
The Europeans are wise to distrust Trump. He is more prone to lie than to be truthful; and they are directly affected by the refugee crisis from past US-led campaigns in the mideast.
They only country that can trust Trump is Russia.
44
I think it is telling that the article concludes by noting that Europeans are not going to want to go to war alongside Trump. He has so damaged our relations that even if a war somewhere is justified we won’t be able to count on traditional support.
35
Not only are the Europeans not going to war with Trump, half of the US will not follow as well. There are going to be anti war demonstrations that rival those of the Vietnam era. Republicans warn that if Trump is impeached, then GOP voters will turn out in droves in 2020. My answer to them is, start a war and watch the anti-war, anti-Trump turnout soar.
13
If this were a game of Risk, Trump would be the the guy you'd never make a treaty with, cause he'd break the treaty in a New York minute and attack your one army in Kamchatka. And he'd laugh while doing it. And if he eventually lost the game he'd flip the board and walk out. And laugh while doing it.
Europe is right to second guess anything the Trump administration says. How far we have fallen when Europe does not trust the United States.
62
After we prevaricated about WMD in Iraq, the US has no credible casus belli for another war in the Middle East.
I used to think "the chickens have come home to roost" as being most germane when discussing the formation of ISIS. Now I see that I was wrong - the roosting chicken is our tattered reputation making any future military action untrustworthy and unjustifiable.
24
This story is typical of establishment American media, in its projection of an objectively newsworthy topic--the Trump administration's yawning credibility gap--onto another party, in this case European governments. One side claims Iran attacked a Japanese tanker during a visit by the Japanese Prime Minister. On the other side, some European critics are skeptical.
This is a President who has told thousands of documented, public lies, including numerous lies about the deal Obama made with Iran that Trump has personally wrecked. There is substantial evidence that he and his son-in-law have corrupt ties to some of Iran's regional enemies. Now he is fomenting a potentially catastrophic war. When does his own total lack of credibility in doing so become newsworthy? Not "Europeans are skeptical," but "Trump lacks all credibility."
72
“Europeans are skeptical” is a fact. “Trump lacks all credibility” is an opinion. That’s why you see reporting of the former and not the latter.
4
Thank you for your succinct description of reality. God help us all.
6
@Elizabeth Hillard
Trump has told over 10,000 verifiable lies since taking office. THAT is not an opinion. That is a fact. If you prefer to believe that a person who lies a dozen times a day somehow maintains credibility, that is YOUR opinion.
11
Trump and his administration have eroded all confidence our allies have in the US.
His lies, exaggerations, and instability have shown that he cannot be trusted. Ever. How scary that this puts the US at risk when our allies have to think twice before they share intelligence info.
26
“Europe sees this as a calculated, managed and fairly rational response to continual and increased U.S. sanctions pressure."
A typical European position: brownnose both sides. In Afghanistan the Americans got killed fighting the bad guys and the Europeans stayed busy playing volleyball, drinking beer, and calling mom.
You have no clue. To this very day allied forces fight side by side with the US, dying as Americans do. Sadly, it is futile. Afghanistan did not participate in the 9/11 attack, neither did Iraq. The overwhelming majority of the attackers were from Saudi Arabia.
23
Strange thousands of our countrymen, including my brother, died in your war and then isn’t it?
3
@rudolf Stupid take. Maybe if the US stops destroying countries(Iraq and Libya) they would have less bad guys to fight against.
4
We are now seeing the dangerous consequences of Trump’s constant lying, secretiveness, incompetence, selfishness, and hubris. The bottom line is that, at this critical moment, allies and foes alike trust neither Trump’s words nor his motives — and really, how could they?
The groundwork for international distrust was prepared by Bush and Cheney twisting and falsifying intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq. But the grave for trust was deeply dug when Trump assumed the presidency and immediately started turning the US into a land of “alternative facts,” transactional greed, ersatz evangelicals, and amoral lawlessness.
Iran doubtless causes many problems in the region, but the US can simply no longer be trusted. Trump’s behavior leaves us — and the world — in an extremely perilous position, wherein a relatively minor mistake or misunderstanding could quickly lead to war with almost unimaginable consequences.
21
Anyone in a motor boat could have used a shoulder-launched missile, like a Stinger, to cause damage. Why must we focus on mines? Because mines are a serious navigation obstacle, almost an act of war, and therefore deserve a military naval presence to ensure safe navigation. This makes it abundantly clear that until there is a thorough and neutral forensic examination, we should wait before drawing conclusions pointing to Iran. We have already, with our theory of mines, oil prices, response to sanctions, etc. painted Iran into a scenario which seems to fit things nicely for many Americans. Nevertheless, you will see United States naval vessels patrolling with gulf within a month. At that point, an Iranian incident becomes real. As November election approaches and things heat up, never change horses in mid-stream is good election strategy.
11
@Amos M - I don't know why everyone thinks that if Trump starts a war in Iran that we couldn't just change him at the election. We have been at war in Afghanistan for what, three presidents now? We are already at war but everyone seems to forget that.
@Amos M It's not even our tanker.
@tom harrison
I wish I wasn't so hopeful the election will solve this as far as avoiding serious military action and provocation. Lyndon Johnson was not re-elected because he quit in time. Nixon was re-elected to continue the war for his second term which he obtained an end to by all out savagery and mass bombing. Carter and Ford had no active warfare situation (neither was re-elected). Reagan had no overt military actions (but much covert) at the time of his re-election, an exception to all the above. Clinton was well out of a war and on to peace-keeping for his re-election, but he also entered office with no active war. Bush, as you know, was re-elected mostly to continue an overt war on terrorism. He might have been elected a third time but for the Constitution. As Mr. Lincoln said about the horses and the stream: if you've already got a country in deep war trouble, you want the men originally involved to continue it and win it and get it over with, not some new pack who may not know what they are doing and so prolong or lose it. We'll see.
Trump should simply ask the Iranians: “did you do this?”. And if they answer “no we didn’t”, then it’s case closed. Just like with Putin. Diplomacy is so simple!
305
@Bruno
FDR - "I talked to Emperor Hirohito, he said he didn't do it" !
11
And don’t forget his boyfriend in North Korea? Same question - “did you do I”? “No”. Case closed again.
10
The phrase “measured and proportionate response” is not in this president’s vocabulary.
40
Even our allies don't believe him, but then how can they/we believe anything he says?
This is the problem with having a president who routinely lies about _everything_, from crowd size to hand size. Don't believe your eyes he warns; listen to what I'm telling you. And as I'm sure he knows, there's nothing like a nice little war to stir up your support.
Americans keep waiting for Congress to grow a spine and push back on this man. Surely going to war without authorization should do the trick? Surely?
59
@avrds Both the Bush's managed a preemptive war without Congress (illegal on two counts if you're one of the hold-outs who still regard the US Constitution) so I wouldn't get my hopes up.
3
@avrds
Sadly, I doubt it.
3
In response to the comments of Nathalie Tocci, senior adviser to Federica Mogherini, that Iranians are deeply rational actors and would not undertake this type of attack while the Japanese Prime Minister is visiting Iran, I would like to remind Ms. Tocci that the Japanese were undertaking peace negotiations in Washington at the time they attacked Pearl Harbor. Rationality only goes so far.....
And Inwould like to remind you that the USS Maine blew up due to methane leakage from its coal stores.
17
On the contrary, this is all very rational behavior on the part of Pompeo and Bolton -- remember the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that led us into war? We're still paying for that bit of "intelligence".
6
@John McGlynn Nothing suggests that the Iranians would pull a Pearl Harbor. What wars are the Iranians engaged in that require such a daring attack?
3
The world now has our number. The Europeans have certainly seen this movie before. And have zero confidence in the USA, and rightfully so.
The chances that European and American citizens would approve of aggression against Iran are nill. All of us already know that we are witnessing the consequences of Trump’s and Republicans’ cancellation of the Iran/USA nuclear agreement.
This is just another crisis manufactured by an incompetent and hateful USA President who is now without a properly staffed and funded state department, or diplomats to try to avert a disaster.
Instead we have Pompeo doing a very poor imitation of Dick Cheney on the lead up to the Iraq War. Pompeo is certainly getting wagged by his tail to divert attention from the fact that this is a manufactured charade. A manufactured charade with possible grave consequences from a President who has already told us that he will do anything to get re-elected, up to and including colluding with Russia.
191
The problem s that until late in 2020 the citizens have no real say. With the GOP in control of the Senate there are no effective brakes on this administration. The Republicans are not going to grow a spine anytime soon. The more rambunctious of them tend to be war hawks anyway.
35
TOKYO — One of the tankers that were attacked in the Gulf of Oman was struck by a flying object, the ship’s Japanese operator said on Friday, expressing doubt that a mine had been attached to its hull.
Pompeo now says a squadron of manned Iranian flying carpets were to blame for the attacks.
99
@New World Iran wouldn't waste great Persian rugs on such a terrible plot.
8
Trump's array of options provided by Pentagon planners will include:
(1) Zumwalt 2.0 use aircraft to drop mines around Kharg Island in the Persian Gulf, from where Iran exports the bulk of its oil;
(2) Preying Mantis 2.0 - sink Iranian Revolutionary Guard Naval Assets using drone strikes (plausible deniability.
(3) Zumwalt 3.0 - mine Iranian Revolutionary Guard Naval Asset bases and destroy A2D2 command and control
(4) pre-emptively sink Iranian Navy Kilo, Besat, Fateh, Nahang Ghadir, Yugo & Al-Sabehat 15 SDV submarines in port in concern with 1, 2 or 3
(5) Reagan 2.0 _Offer to temporarily re-flag all shipping transiting Gulf of Oman and Persian Gulf as US vessels as deterrent to attack; and
(6) move 2nd and 3rd carrier strike forces to the region; and
(7) relocate a wing of B2s from the 509th Bomb Wing (509 BW), Eighth Air Force, Air Force Global Strike Command from Whileman AFB in MO to Diego Garcia.
The last one should give the Iranian hard liners reason to change their drawers as a wing of B2s could take out their nuclear infrastructure in an afternoon.
Trump must act to restore deterrence, as without a show of force, war is inevitable due to the aggressiveness and poor discipline & Command and Control with the Iranian Revolution Guards and their Quds forces, wherein several commanders desire confrontation and martyrdom.
1
@American Akita Team - "Preying Mantis 2.0 - sink Iranian Revolutionary Guard Naval Assets using drone strikes (plausible deniability."
Surely this one will be ruled out. The reason is, if the US uses drone strikes to sink Iranian naval assets, it will prove the Iranian claim that the US has been attacking its tankers by drones in international waters. As reported by Reuters (See 1), an Iranian tanker was mysteriously (!) attacked and later sunk last year in East China Sea with no other naval vessel in its vicinity.
1. reuters.com/article/us-china-shipping-accident-japan/burning-iranian-oil-tanker-sinks-after-january-6-accident-chinese-state-tv-idUSKBN1F309G
6
Yep, let’s just nuke ‘em! That would solve it.
Trump the Liar reigns!
2
Isn’t Treasonous Trump responsible for failing to honor an agreement made by an American president and all of our Allies?
3
Well it is good to see that Israel has not been majorly blamed for these attacks. Having Hisballa -an Iranian proxy with 100,000 missiles at the Northern boarder, Israel would surely avoid an open war with Iran unless directly treantedt.
@lieberma Sure buddy. Israel a country that got the US to tear up the nuclear deal and long advocated for war in Iran.
Now you are pretending the Israelis are some peaceful people. Let's ask the Palestinians how peaceful the Israelis really are.
5
@lieberma -- Comments discussing the blame that may apply to Israel were removed. There were many.
2
Unless they are trying to provoke the US into fighting its war for it...see USS Liberty incident
5
Consider the contrast to the Cuban missile crisis when Kennedy asked de Gaulle whether he wanted to see the photos of the missiles and de Gaulle said it was not necessary because he trusted Kennedy.
141
The analysis of the European advisors seems plausible to me; the extremists in Iran are behind the attacks with the aim of causing havoc on the oil market, as retaliation against Trump’s embargo. Which reminds me of the oil embargo against Japan, 1941.
3
"In the absence of hard intelligence, with American agencies notably quiet, European governments — with the possible exception of Britain — are wary about blaming Iran. They are reluctant to accept the White House’s claims at face value, and do not want to provide Washington with any pretext for war."
My guess is there is no hard intelligence since Pompeo staged this entire event for Trump.
84
With good reason I don't trust the Trump administration. Their dishonesty is unprecedented. They need to post facto justify their cancellation of the pretty good Obama Iran accord. Trump needs a war in order to be reelected and thereby avoid prison. One grateful Saudi prince, for instance, would gladly stage something like this on behalf of the man who failed to condemn him for torturing and dismembering a Washington Post columnist. Iran, on the other hand, did come to an agreement with President Obama and were abiding by that agreement. I find it very hard to believe Iran would be so stupid as to do something like this.
259
@Robert
" Trump needs a war in order to be reelected and thereby avoid prison."
We must be ready to discuss that potential at the appearance of every piece of evidence that increases the likelihood of Trump's need for war, and not anything at all close to any actual justification for war, with Iran--or any country.
15
When the Iran agreement was made, the Brits found Iranian terrorists stockpiling large amounts of bomb ingredients near London. That sounds pretty dishonest and hostile. And the media kept it quiet so as not to make Obama look bad.
@Steve Gregg - Really? You really believe that? Really?
Fine. Let's go to war with Iran, because, after all, some tolling report said Iranian terrorists stockpiled stuff in London.
Sheesh.
1
So now our credibility in Europe is on par with Iran's.
78
@David M -- Below Iran, as I judge the responses.
6
“Nathalie Tocci, a senior adviser to the European foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, said, “Before we blame someone, we need credible evidence.” Iranians are deeply rational actors, she said. And for Iran to have attacked a Japanese ship when the Japanese prime minister was in Tehran “is not an especially rational thing to do.”
The Trump administration does not want a diplomatic solution with Iran short of what their handlers Israel and Saudi Arabia agree to, which is Iran's overthrow, and tried to stop the diplomacy with Japan. The real collusion of Trump is with Israel and Saudi Arabia, everything he has done is to their benefit.
Pompeo 2018 Texas A&M: “When I was a cadet, what’s the cadet motto at West Point? You will not lie, cheat, or steal or tolerate those who do. I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole. We had entire training courses.”
100
A mine the size of a suitcase on the hull above the water line of the ship - none of the crew saw this foreign object(s) in port or earlier under sail stuck on the hull? Strange.
24
@Cafeman ...Think possibly a magnetically-attaching "limpet" mine delivered with a relatively cheap, sacrificial, commercially-available drone that crashed against the hull. (Cargo carrying drones can be purchased online for less than $600 each with a bulk purchase, if I'm reading Aliexpress correctly.)
A drone is certainly a "flying object" as one ship's owner claims was involved.
3
The Europeans have to be the adults in the room as long as the Trump mis-adminstration is in power and attempting to lead by lies, bullying and threats. Since January 20, 2016, the Iranian government has acted with more restraint, respect for international order and respect for human rights than the US government. That is amazing.
166
There is certainly reason to believe that event was staged. Saudi Arabia wants a war. Europe is aware of Trump's close ties with the Saudis and UAE are violently anti Shia. This a spill over of the inability of these powers to overthrow Assad in Syria. The Europeans see that Trump immediately set out to target Iran withdrawing from the nuclear deal and launching destabilizing economic sanctions.
135
A 9 yr old child would easily do a better job by following playground ethics, than our dummy in in the White House.
5
Europe distrusts the USA as much as Iran. Says it all right there. Thanks Trump for all the damage you've inflicted on allied relationships that were nurtured for decades.
360
@Character Counts. European mistrust of the USA did not begin with Trump. Bush II lied about Iraqi WMDs and, when France and Germany and others didn't follow him into war, his administration, supported by most people in the US, vilified them. The US never apologized for its behavior, which just compounds the shamefulness.
It's true that Trump has brought mistrust of the USA to a new level, because he lies about *everything*. Even when he doesn't have to lie, he lies.
People are being polite when they say Europe distrusts the USA as much as Iran.
103
We do not trust the US Federal Government. And we do trust the American people.
We trust the American people to get their house in order, although we have been waiting on this one for quite a while.
If you wonder why we trust Iran and China, its simple: they are rational in pursuit of their interest. The US Fed. Gov. is not.
86
@abo Very true and despicable. Bush/Cheney and the other responsible “leaders” should apologize and accept responsibility for the WMD catastrophe (and that word isn’t adequate or strong enough). Trump the liar has taken pages from their book and is literally rewriting history with them. I suppose he now has his own encyclopedia of reprehensible acts/omissions/lies.
Like many other US citizens, I no longer have confidence in our elected “officials”. I do have some hope that our system of government will correct itself...
40
These escalations remind us of the beginnings of the Iraq war. If US is looking to escalate this situation, one thing that is different today is the cautious approach being taken by the US's allies in Europe.
The way the oil tankers have been hit goes to show that it was a calculated attack with nil to minimal damage, to the personnel onboard and the ships as a whole. Whoever has done it certainly wants to escalate the situation.
33
The original wisdom of the Iran nuclear deal was accepting that only two options exist: war or compromise.
Iran's reproachable foreign policy notwithstanding, it must be sympathized with by the West considering the security challenges the country faces in the region.
It seems likely that Iran struck those tankers to demonstrate its desperate position and desire for compromise.
7
@Albert
"... Iran struck those tankers to demonstrate its desperate position and desire for compromise."
This is double-speak. And yes this is just what you are saying: "Because Iran is so desperate, they are doing things that will make their own circumstances much worse., Because Iran desires compromise, they are giving the Trump administration the pretext to start a war with them." Moreover, President Obama's Iran deal was pretty darned good, and Iran was fully complying with it. There was no reason that it could not have been incrementally improved over time. In that light, I don't have any idea what you mean by the following:
"The original wisdom of the Iran nuclear deal was accepting that only two options exist: war or compromise."
6
@Albert Iran didn't back out of the nuclear deal. The US did. Furthermore this "video evidence" is nothing more than fluff trying to create a circumstance.
"Iran's reproachable foreign policy" is laughable compared to the war mongering US.
7