It’s the lived experience of older women that needs to be understood by younger feminists. When I was starting out in my career, I too felt that the basic tenets of feminism had been won and we could move on to new causes. But I was just out of college and my group, male and female, were all on the lowest rung of the working world. We were all treated about the same. Fast forward 25 years and as a 46 year old I have had a career of seeing unqualified and untalented men move up the ladder in ways that have left me stunned. The immediate credibility they are given, the casual comfort the senior leadership, still mostly male, has with them, the exclusively male networking- ie “golf outings” is jaw dropping.
For feminism, the tragedy is that when you are younger and have more energy and time to advocate you don’t always see the need and by the time you realize that the basics still need to be addressed you are overwhelmed with your career, family, elder care, child care, etc. that leaves little time to advocate for these issues.
23
If all women, regardless of age, don't work together to protect the right to choose not to carry a pregnancy to term, all of this other conversation about power will be pointless.
7
The dictum "I am their leader. I follow them" is a good motto to follow. As a former female manager in an environment that ws 90% male dominated, I learned the hard way that everyone wants and should have power. The best managers/supervisors tap into the creativity embedded in their corporate culture and encourage the potential of their staff. It is a mistake that, when one is given a position of authority he/she should make others pay for all the years of suffering/helplessness they have endured. Both men and women of power could do well to take the "feminine position", i.e. quiet receptivity to the life and heartbeat of their work community and action which enhances that life.
2
Please Ms. Hess: in this era of 360-degree performance reviews where leaders are evaluated by so-called subordinates as well as peers and superiors, the Queen Bee and Miranda Priestley archetypes are outdated and rightly penalized. The “Me Too” syndrome applies to female bosses that bully, and many organizations coach these women or keep them from rising to upper management, just as they are beginning to prevent male bullies from doing so. Corporate Social Responsibility (caps intended) is an operational mandate, not just greenwashing. Social media makes everything transparent, enabling workers at all levels to have a voice.
Is it equitable all around? Of course not! But the “wicked stepmother” stereotype doesn’t do anyone justice - esp. women leaders who are older, who lead firmly and fairly, and who nurture without being cloyingly “maternal”. We are the ones who can, yes, hold our own with men who want to hoist a few whiskeys (or Perrier) with us after hours, no sexual involvement implied or expressed, and often share with us immensely useful insider intel that used to be relegated to the golf course and locker room. We’re also the ones who hang out in our offices, later than most, office doors open, for that young concerned professional - male or female - that needs a shoulder to cry on or difficult career advice. Those were the moments that made my long hours so worthwhile, and taught me the most about leadership.
6
The competition I've experienced and witnessed between females in the workplace is very often being "manipulated" (perhaps too strong a word) or influenced by their interactions with their male co-workers. The favorite among the men is often bitterly disliked by the lesser favored. And the "favorite" is most often the female who can hang the best with the males - even if they are subordinates. She need not be the Hottie, very often isn't...she's the "guys gal".
I think women have a long way to go before they shed their deeper male issues, not the least of which is they want men to desire them. (again, maybe too strong a word) It need not be sexual, although that is often part of the equation, but just to have men want to be around them, confide in them, hang with them...be the first on the call for the happy hour gathering, maybe the after hours ballgame...
9
As the author discusses "women" throughout the piece she is really talking about "White women" and if she had identified that, the piece would automatically be richer and more challenging. It takes paragraphs for her to see in nearly all her examples the young women are women of color. The complicated relationship is as much about race as it is about anything.
I am an older Black woman and as White women have been able to define feminism for groups that never had to worry about being put on a pedestal, I have wondered why are White women so cutthroat with Black women? I usually answer because White women believe it's their turn to assert power over others. That belief is not limited any one generation.
6
@Betty Porter
Thank you for saying that, you took the words out of my woman-of-color mouth. Glad to know I'm not the only one who notices this.
1
Real leadership, and thus truly legitimate power--whatever that means--should forge intergenerational unity between women...and men. Or it will always remain a sham.
4
@James R Dupak
Just like the old guys did??
My implicit question to you is, why "unity between women"? Do you know of men in leadership who do this?
2
In the real world not in the fictional world of stupid Hollywood women are/should be judged by their personality/experience not the politics of a movement. Some women are good at leadership and others are middling to bad. That's life. Not your politics... it seems. Or what makes a film entertaining.
1
IMO the Big Bad Boss Biddy is just the Evil Stepmother of so many fairytales in modern disguise, another way to avoid the trouble of treating older women as 3-dimensional human beings.
29
Few years ago I read an article in nytimes, a dad writing about how he doesnt want to see his teenage daughter in shorts with juicy couture written on the butt, and same with other scarce clothing. He wants his daughters to have self esteem. Point is Women dont need to grow up with so much focus on their body parts. Women will grow up to be true female warriors when the patriarchy changes. Change begins at home.
2
This article is excellent. What would be more effective in stifling the women's movement than turning it generationally against itself. The "boss" syndrome here is the Queen Bee syndrome which has been extensively studied in psychology and business. It is NOT generationally dependent, but it CAN be overcome with solidarity and support accross hierarchy and accross generations of women. THAT is the theme we need to hear not the stereotypic divisive portrayals described here.
5
All stereotypes are grown on a grain of truth. My (female) experience with females in the workplace and out of it has always been that too many women — brimming with jealously and insecurity — view other women as competition, to be either controlled or taken down. I have watched with interest the professional career of one particularly vicious female acquaintance. She has gained a reputation in her field for being someone you don’t turn your back on, whether you are male or female. She hires mostly women to work under her, so on the surface it looks like she’s being supportive of her sisters. But the women she hires tend to be not those with top-tier resumes. She parcels out a few crumbs to these women, so they are grateful and deeply loyal to her. They become part of her personal posse, but they are never going to displace her because they are not up to it and she knows it. She looks for that limitation is people she takes into the fold.
9
@Passion for Peaches
If this is true (not my experience), how does this differ from the way many men manage?
2
i think,( although I have been unable to find a documented attribution) that Fran Leibowitz once said that if women really had any power, they'd be able to wear a prom dress to the office.
As long as corporate women dress as skirted men and change from trainers into heels(!) once they're inside their cubicles- their female bosses will be distinguished only by wearing heels to work from home because they have a driver and are not taking the subway. Women's clothes that copy men's "office suitable" (pun intended) attire don't even have pockets.
12
You can't accurately talk about feminism without talking about Difference, Power and Discrimination. It is only inside of patriarchy and capitalism that the female role of life bearer and nurturer is seen as "less". So women everywhere are determined to prove they are "emancipated and free" by also devaluing anything that has to do with life bearing properties instead of demanding an end to the very destructive system of capitalism that rewards subjugating others for profit and devalues all life on the planet.
9
@RCJCHC, women everywhere, you say, are determined to devalue anything with life-bearing properties? As impressive as it is that you find yourself to know what women everywhere want in the first place, I find that of women I know, none seem to do that. Odd that you think so. And odd that others may recommend it. You might start by looking at the women you live with and actually know, and finding this disdain in them.
3
Fiction allows us to explore our alternative futures. It may reveal dangers to be avoided. The writers job is to tell an interesting story while enlightening the human consciousness. Relax. They'll figure it out
@Mariata McCamy
This was not posted by McCamy, it was posted by her husband, Cary. Mariata does not share the opinion expressed.
8
"They are only interested in dismantling structures."
How Steve Bannon-ish
3
“Woman of a certain age” is deeply sexist and ageist language as the implication is that the woman is no longer sexually attractive or able to have children.
7
@Saba, the writer used it in a way that has invisible air quotes around it. Would you be happier if she had used actual (wink-wink) quotes? Or had written “so-called” before that term?
3
As a asian I always thought the women potrayed as smart and intelligent still dress too sexy. All the smart women of the world dont care a hoot about dressing that way. Creating unrealistic standards is the reason why girls growing up in america are just getting dumber by the day.
16
Am I the only one really tired of feminism? It's not about equality anymore, it´s about power. And not a good one. Shame on you, feminism, you are hiding real women behind a political mask.
4
With all due respect, feminism is a personal moniker with a myriad of facets. I, for one, have never heard any feminists I know (myself included) talk about the movement for sexual equality in terms of power (other than the positive power a level playing field).
7
Let's cut thru the flowery, long winded, esoteric writing here.
Imo to summarize reality, women have shown to be just as good as male bosses and also just as bad.
Period.
12
I agree: the archetypes of the feminist other reify long-standing hypocrisies in the gender-typed project of silencing the voices screaming out in the absence of multiple iconoclasms.
@Al, I really hope you were having a bit of fun there.
5
I am an old feminist. I find Hollywood very out of touch with normal people and their lives. The hatred of women, especially older women is rampant. Most plot seem to follow: powerful women, powerful women is evil, powerful women is killed or overthrown.
Hollywood is always catching up. The Handmaid’s Tale was written in the 1980s. Getting rid of single use plastic was pushed for late 1980s. Oh yeah, the connection between feminism and environmentalism much talked about in the 1980s.
You might want to read Dreaming the Dark, by Starhawk. Also 1980s, but I’m pretty sure it will blow your mind.
10
the 80s and the 90s were the era when women were told to be more like men to be more successful -- loud, abrasive, overconfident workaholics
that archetype still exists
4
You do know most men are miserable? Also, social justice and approved attitudes make for poor drama? And TV is entertainment?
Yes, more insufferable mansplaining....
2
"Even the singularly sociopathic Selina Meyer of “Veep” offers a structural critique: She shows what happens when male political power is simply transferred to a female host."
No, she doesn't. Veep was all about being as funny as possible by showing politician-surrogates behaving as badly as possible, with maximum punctured egos per minute. It got far more cynical and nasty in the last two seasons precisely because the writers recognised that reality was outstripping their fantasy. They have said as much on many occasions.
If you posit the television show as a "thesis" that will "explain" or "critique" our world, you thereby lose the ability to explain and critique the world yourself, and also the ability to sit down and enjoy watching tv. (I leave you to decide which is the greater loss.) Such shows are "parasitic" on our world - epiphenomena - they do not act upon it.
4
@Edward TV shows, like photos in magazines, help condition the way people think and behave themselves and toward each other. While there are other more powerful material forces at work most of the time, don’t underestimate the power of cultural models, i.e., propaganda.
3
This is the 2nd time in a week I read a Times op-ed article criticizing Hollywood for not telling it like it is and for not providing accurate role models etc.
Get a grip. It's just entertainment! The goal of the TV/Film industry is to divert us from reality, not to remind us of it!
This article overtly contradicts half-a-century of empirical research and field studies by sociologists regarding generational cohorts and their political disparities, but—hey—why let science and reason get in the way of a polemic? We're all behind you one hundred percent. Go, Hess, go!
1
I forgot! Women on the Edge of Time By M Piercy. 1980s, but very radical, by today’s standard.
5
Anything by Marge Piercy! Talk about a feminist icon!
5
The patriarchy is real. I think a great deal of women are not even aware of their social conditioning in our very patriarchal society. As a 61 year old women I look to our younger generations of women to stand tall against patriarchy. I can not help but reflect the crazy symbology of the real threat of Climate Change yet our politicians are focused on abortion and the rights of a women to choose what to do with HER body.
16
“One narrative pitches older feminists as the real activists who fought hard for rights that younger women now have the luxury of taking for granted.”
Sometimes referred to as “real life,” this narrative has the added advantage of being closer to the “truth.”
“But a more fashionable narrative, these days, argues that feminism grows naturally and inevitably over time, leaving each new generation of women more equipped to live out feminist principles than the one that came before.”
Why bother with Simone de Beauvoir, when there are new, fashionable ways to do mental acrobatics around the issue of social progress?
4
People!
This is ENTERTAINMENT...that is designed to make people LAUGH...primarily through that time honored device of humor through satirical gross exaggeration.
It is NOT real life.
1
"By film’s end, she has shown her boss the error of her ways, saved the show and forged intergenerational unity between women."
Well, thank you SOOOO much for spoiling the ending.
2
Plenty of anecdotal experience here- I'm a 35 ear old woman in the aerospace industry. Throughout my career I've had great and bad managers of both genders.
At my very large company, those who use intimidation and power flexing to maintain their positions eventually end up being excused to far flung corners where their harm is limited. (Not fired, though)
While I recognize systemic issues are still very much at play, I feel optimistic about the future.
But maybe I've just been lucky enough to be mentored and supported by those who are really good leaders.
7
Thank you for this excellent discussion.
6
I'm shocked to learn that Hollywood isn't reality. How could that possibly be?
3
Wow. This was – hands down – the best piece I have read on the complexity of feminism in the workplace. Really fantastic!
21
We are not going to make any real progress on this issue until we stop labeling certain behaviors as male/female.
Now, that is difficult to do because our realities are driven by sexist legacies and continued/lingering attitudes.
But I am skeptical that deeper examination into what it means to be feminist is going to lead to anything but ever more deeper and nuanced examination. Meanwhile the privileged and amoral continue to reap the spoils.
We need to expect and exhibit decent behavior to one another whether male or female.
17
You missed the Bold Type, which is a great show exploring these themes in far more complexity.
1
@roberab yes the bold type is a critical show for inverting the devil wears Prada Miranda archetype. All of the women in the show struggle with the complexities of the male-dominated world and the show is very good for inverting stereotypes. One instance being in season one where the power shoe is not a heel but a flat.
However more crucially to the debate, it is editor and chief that subtly inverts this image of a ruthless lady boss. She can be hash, she can push her employees but shes also encouraging. she also optimistically inverts the stereotype that I have grown up with, even inforced by my parents, that its job or career. She struggles with her family life but on the whole, her children and husband seem happy and understanding. She manages both. Furthermore, it outlines the issue that women are facing. Even though Jacqueline (lady boss) is at the top of her company she is still subject to the board of directors, who are, for the most part, old white men. She struggles with the suppression of these men by hiring in people in an attempt to curtail her power and her influence (such as a director of media in season 2). The bold type carefully outlines the issues faced by women in the workplace such but also inverts many of the stereotypes that many television shows and movies seem to fall victim to.
5
@Emily Pond
Thanks for the info. I'll be looking for that tonight!
I think you're missing a major point of this female-female alignment. It is far, far easier to demonstrate the impacts of patriarchy without dealing the inherent metoo issues with a male female dynamic. Remove the creep vibe and the power plays can be shown for what they are.
I'm in between generations, in a male dominated profession (engineering). Early enough that I remember being a bit starry eyed without being dismissive of it, old enough that I'm now a bit jaded. I understand now why so many start strong then falter in mid age. To get very geeky, I think it's why so many millennials hate the new version of Luke in Star Wars. He's worn down and done with contributing, very different from where he was as a young man eager to throw over the world order. It's hard for young people to relate to, who haven't seen something they built for years fall apart. Crushing the system when young will not bring about a lighthearted later adulthood, where a lifetime of competition and obligations won't wear you down. It will simply bring a new system along to crush you.
Seem to woken up on the cynical side of the bed today.
21
Excellent essay thank you very much. I just retired from a position of authority in a large health care organization. Over a broad diverse career, I had many women bosses, most who were great and afew not so great. The best understood the importance of mentoring other women in male dominated fields. I was fortunate to benefit from that and as my authority increased, tried to do the same for other younger women. But women are humans, too, and some of those bosses were not so supportive and perhaps threatened by ambitous younger women.
For women early on their career paths, I have two suggestions: 1) seek out other women in powerful positions and they may very well take the invitation to mentor you; 2) build a network of other women in similar positions to share information and support. My wonderful posse was a life saver and I will always treasure them.
Go for it ladies!
18
@Kathy From Oakland
So it’s obvious that the woman boss of my group is headed up the ladder and that soon one of us will be chosen to replace her. Now, I see that she has chosen to “mentor” one of the women, because she’s a woman - just as so many commenters suggest. Now ladies, if a male boss did the same for me, would that be an awful manifestation of the patriarchy?
2
Charlie, generations of women have watched men hire men, promote men, mentor men, whatever you want to call it. I'm astonished at the sense in some men that they're the first who've ever felt that their gender (or race) might impede them. And my, what moaning and angst ensues.
3
While a thoughtful article, there is a missing element to this conversation. TV is a business. Not once in a pitch meeting to studios is there a discussion about accurate portrayals of women or how a series and/or characters represent positive versions of feminism, at least not as the driving force of the show. All that’s discussed is how you can keep viewers engaged and generally, that’s by being out of the ordinary in some way. It’s also meant to be an escape from your everyday life. So please, keep having these conversations, but do not depend on television to guide the path to gender equality.
14
@LN
The problem is that what's on television has a huge impact on what's talked about socially and how people view women's roles.
The biggest thing that's not talked about is that the most sexist tv shows were created by women. They all play into the same negative stereotype that if you're not attached romantically or a mother, there's something wrong with you. You're neurotic, man-chasing and an emotional basket case all the time unless you're in a romantic relationship and/or become a mother. None of these tropes are present for single male characters.
Even one of the strongest women characters on tv, Murphy Brown, had this problem, as was highlighted by Candice Bergen.
1
I find it interesting that this essay says nothing about sexual jealousy among women: Older women too often don't want younger women around because they fear (with ample justification) that they will attract more male attention. So at some very primordial level, they feel ego-threatened by younger women, and seek to dominate, undermine, or exclude them. This is bad enough in social settings, but it is disastrous in the workplace.
19
@Denise, what about men? If, as you say, older women too often don't want younger women around because they fear that they will attract more male attention, don't older men feel similarly toward younger men? Based on biology (body dimorphism, differential parental investment, behavioral sorrelates of testosterone, etc) and plain old "common knowledge" that men are, on average, more competitive than women, you'd expect this supposed phenomenon to be even more present among men in the workplace.
And yet, we speak of camaraderie among men, of older men mentoring the younger ones, etc. Why is that? Why are you observing this supposed age-related effect among women yet not among men? Please don't say that it's because women are more attracted "at some very primordial level" to older men. I am sure there are exceptions, but most of us like flat abs and chiseled bodies no matter the gender. But we still peddle old sexist "truths" that pit women against one another, whether based on age, looks, or something else. None of it has to stand in the way of female friendship and collaboration, just as is the case for men.
4
@Jane
One possible reason for older male mentoring younger ones is that older males have less testosterone as they age, which can cause them to become more nurturing. The opposite is true for women, they have less estrogen as they age and this can be why they get more empowered personally as they get older. Hormones can and do play a part.
I am an early thirties woman in a STEM career. I have worked for a rare female founded and lead company. I agree that age does not have much to do with how women treat other women—I have two female bosses who are the same age. One is the type of woman boss I have always wanted. Encouraging, critical, mentoring. She stands up for women in our industry. The other is seething with internalized patriarchy. When a new organization for women in our field was started, she asked the men in our office if they thought this was fair. On another occasion she announced we would not seek out female contractors or clients specifically because “reverse descrimination is real”. She told me she is excited men are working for her because she doesn’t want to run a business that’s “just for moms”.
It is disheartening when the patriarchy comes packaged as someone you thought was on your team. I see her as a human, though. It is not her fault that these are her survival tactics. My other boss is lucky to have been able to grow professionally and personally without compromising her feminist ideals. They are the same age, but wildly different, which hopefully we can agree is true of all women: we are each individuals, not archetypes. The journey to our liberation is long and we must meet each other where we are.
52
It is disheartening when the patriarchy comes packaged as someone you thought was on your team. I see her as a human, though. It is not her fault that these are her survival tactics.
I find it fascinating that even when a woman is at fault it's actually the fault of men. Women can't 'truly' be held responsible, apparently.
11
@Bill — you missed the keyword: "Patriarchy." Women have been forced (by men) to adapt in order to survive/thrive in a world run by men. This is no one individual's fault, but rather our patriarchal society imposing generations of women adapting under oppression.
21
I didn't miss it. I actually quoted the word. But I'm a guy so I know I'm wrong, and have been since birth.
4
This really is a good piece and spot on, but I try to not think this hard when I'm watching TV or a movie. Because Veep is the funniest show that has ever been on TV.
5
It's always good for site traffic and paper sales when a writer purposefully instigates a heedless round of infighting that is myopically constrained to the very specific realm of feminist deconstruction.
C'mon. The excellent burlesque of VEEP is bolstered by that exact tension between an older generation of women in positions of power that succeeded in spite of sexism, as opposed to the younger generation's explicit critique of internalized misogyny within the older set (effectively reinforcing patriarchal norms and social mores)
2
Many people seem to have forgotten that 2019 marks an important milestone. Women’s Right to Vote. Why is this not being celebrated more? It was the beginning of our legal voice in America.
28
@Janet Baker: Most women in my family weren't able to actually (though technically and legally able to) vote until the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Why aren't more people making THAT part of the suffragist conversation?
2
Women now have better educational outcomes than men at every level, and also benefit from diversity hiring quotas at nearly every medium/large company.
Feminism is a relic.
3
@asdfj:
except, explain this:
http://vpc.org/press/more-than-1800-women-murdered-by-men-in-one-year-new-study-finds/
One of the trends I've noticed in the attempt to inject a feminist take into Hollywood is to begin with a masculine hero trope that's traditionally male and simply make that character female. Additionally, male characters that at one time would have been depicted as heroic or menacing will be presented as fops, failures, or fools. My guess is that by doing this Hollywood believes that they've provided the simple fix to appease an audience looking for improved representation of women and girls.
An example would be the most recent Star Wars movie where Daisy Ridley's character becomes a sort of overnight Jedi while the villain is portrayed as a wannabe Darth Vader and manchild, the once heroic Luke Skywalker never gets to grow into the wise sage that his teachers were, and and the pilot character Poe that goes rogue sort of gets put in his place by the female characters whose leadership he questioned.
The problem with this formula is that female characters are given no nuance or voice in the process, they just become stand-ins for traditional male archetypes while, at best, the male characters simply become the victims of a perceived role reversal.
16
@Red Tree Hill
All three of the Star Wars sequels were written by men who were either trying to recapture the magic of the original Star Wars trilogy (JJ Abrams) or utterly repudiate it. (Rian Johnson).
Much of the problem throughout Hollywood, even for female-led productions starts with writers, who are still almost overwhelmingly male (only 35% of writers for TV are women; for feature films they’re practically non-existent). Even if they are female they are often surrounded or produced by men with greater power (only 24% of TV showrunners are women).
Screenwriting is the foundation of all production as it sets the scene and is the heart of the story but it is still a man’s world. Until women lead men at the WGA and throughout the screenwriting side of the industry, we unfortunately are going to be stuck with men’s ideas of women stories.
23
@left coast finch
Sorry, forgot to include my reference for the percentages:
https://womenandhollywood.com/wga-inclusion-report-card-there-is-systemic-discrimination-in-hiring-of-tv-writers/
2
@left coast finch
Well, that Hollywood is primarily male I'd never question. It's the facile approach at a sort of quasi-feminism that's the issue I have.
3
So is being some combination of ruthless / highly intelligent or skilled / ambitious / power-seeking / wealth seeking now 'the patriarchy'? Because, man or woman, these types always seem to wind up disproportionately at the top in business and politics. It has been true since probably shortly after the evolution of multi-celled organisms and would still be true even if there was complete gender equality. Sometimes nice people succeed, too - I still can't believe that Jimmy Carter made it to the White House - but the higher you go the more of the former you will encounter.
To think that the Hilary Clintons or the Sheryl Sandbergs are or should be any less cold-blooded and calculating than the Nixons and the Jobs of world because they are women is terribly naive. And, it's their right to be so. Many people like competition, winning, making money, and acquiring power. The author seems to confuse feminism with some sort of utopian vision of what the world should be.
34
I wonder if the tensions you describe here partly come from the notion that women are a cohesive group with common behaviors. Now that we rightly question the construct of gender, the only fairly assumed uniting factor (beyond biological trait) of “women” is the discrimination they face throughout life. As we break down the barriers that women face in our society, and as we see more and more representation in media that defy stereotypes, we’ll be able to set aside the idea that any single woman represents “women.”
3
The linear theory of feminism, evidenced in the show, "What the Constitution Means to Me," is innately ageist, and depends on a false optimism. In asserting that successive generations of women evolve into greater enlightenment, it discounts the socio-cultural framework under which former generations lived. It also short-sightedly discounts history. In addition, it fails to take into account that some men are far stronger feminists than some women.
For example, a woman who came of age during the flapper era was far more likely to adopt traits of what is currently termed a feminist than their daughters, born in the 30s, who came of age in the 1950s, the era of the "Mad Men" mentality.
My grandmother, born only several years after the turn of the century, opened her house to a doctor who clandestinely visited to help women who had suffered botched abortion attempts. She was helped by her good friend from Jamaica. "Nana"was personally pro-life, suffering miscarriages until she finally gave birth to a single daughter. Both my grandparents were more of what I would term genuine feminists, than anyone I have personally met since. They both showed enormous courage against an era that brought women backwards in time.
Social history is not linear. A false optimism is more depressing than the blackest of despair. (Yevgeny Yevtushenko)
59
@She, thanks for this! The linear, creating of a non-real generational divide is troubling. You've drawn a lovely unstraight line for us.
4
Of course, those who begin the movements often don't live to see the fruits of their efforts. Neither Susan B. Anthony nor Elizabeth Cady Stanton lived to see women win the vote. My favorite example of feminism on TV is Grace and Frankie, two older women forced to start over in late life when their husbands come out as gay and leave them. Sure, they are white, have money and live in a great house, but they have to navigate the world virtually by themselves in their late 70s. As Grace, Jane Fonda ran her own company; with Frankie, she starts a new one, aimed at, er, helping older women.
19
As a Gen-X feminist and leader in a male dominated field, I have a different take on the generational differences. When I was a young engineer I had an I can do anything, get out of my way attitude and I was mostly supported. Now that I lead a department of 50 engineers I can tell that a lot of people are very uncomfortable with a woman leader. I get interrupted and dismissed by my peers much more now than I did 20 years ago. A young, smart woman is not nearly as frightening as a a smart, experienced woman leader.
Times are changing. It is slow. And the the older generation of men which I keep waiting to retire is younger than I ever imagined 20 years ago.
119
Thanks for posting this. I've had almost exactly the same experience.
As the general harrassment declines (mostly, and that was mostly outside of work), the professional discrimination rises.
47
@Emily here to second this. Also to add, as I see more and more women (younger) enter my male dominated field, I’ve found nothing but allies. The sets are also more chill, friendly, organized and productive. That is, until one of the aforementioned insecure men feel the need to ruin it; because they still can. I’m in a room full of women bosses right now and I’ve had nothing but a smile on my face all day.
16
@Emily Thank you for this comment. Not only do people seem more threatened by older women leaders, but by older women, full stop.
7
There is a lot of good criticism in this essay. But the essay could examine collectives more closely.
Collectives can be a strategy for competitive advantage. Collectives can also offer alternatives to the prevailing patterns of acquiring or distributing power.
'Whiteness' is the elaborate myth that sustains a ruling class’ justification for a permanent advantage. So is male chauvinism.
Some collectives do not offer alternatives, they merely mimic the existing framework, countering the prevailing form of exclusion with yet another form of exclusion in pursuit of competitive advantage.
Other collectives offer alternative ideas about the distribution of power. Mutualism, for example, sees existence as a series of dependencies rather than power relations.
4
@Alix Hoquet I strongly agree that collectives if properly structured are the best antidote to patriarchal hierarchies. I also think that women should consciously form female only networks (including all ranks) in traditional business organizations to counter the old boys network.
6
All Hollywood is interested in is money. That is might in the process echo USA culture is only a matter of chance.
4
When you think about how a "boss" is portrayed - it is almost never positive. The Office had the worst boss in the history ot television. Do you ever see a boss that mentors his/her employees and inspires? The movies have wonderful teachers and principals that help kids rise up (think Stand and Deliver) but never wonderful bosses.
I wonder why that is?
6
What about Lou Grant, editor of a “great American newspaper”? He was a boss portrayed positively in the 1977 to 82 television series. And he worked for another positive role model, the stately Mrs. Pynchon, owner and publisher of the paper.
15
@JMG
Public radio WNYC fired icon Leonard Lopate and frog-walked him out of the building. His offense as best as I can tell was that as the boss of his show he was too much like Lou Grant.
1
Thanks for this - needs to be said. As one of those older pioneers (really older, not just a young 50-something) I've tried, but could not even watch, say, "Mad Men" - it hit too close to home. I love the energy of the youngest feminists, and that they are calling out sexist behavior more aggressively than ever. But they know not - yet - how much of their power to do so comes from their youthful good looks and the fact that their relatively low salaries and lack of power in the workplace means they can be condescended to. When they agitate for real change, real power, real money, when they are further along in their careers, they will likely see how fast and how firmly and instinctively and intuitively the patriarchy will close ranks against them. Real progress is slow.
148
@Barbara - Bingo! I am also an older woman (70), and I make a point to tell Gen-X and Millenial women of my acquaintance true stories of my experiences in the workplace and IRL in the 1970s and 1980s. They are incredulous and probably barely believe me: the university professor who told my husband he was getting an A in a business class we were both taking, then told me to my face I would get a B because I would just have babies and never work; the executive director who was having affairs with several women who were my fellow coordinators for the Federal Women's Program, of all things; the doctors who would not prescribe birth control without my husband's permission. I could go on and on. My coworkers and I went crazy for the movie "9 to 5" because it seemed like our lives wrapped up in a revenge fantasy. Mad Men had a lot of it right; it seemed almost every workplace had a Peggy and a Joan.
70
Yup 68 with stories to tell and most won’t even listen. My stance has never changed but neither has my economic situation ever improved. Retiring on too little money with a college degree, work in three graduate fields and now 20 years in tech where fighting for recognition is painful. Now fighting agism as well. Tell me how great women have it today and watch a tiny southerner come out swinging.
31
@Barbara, Amen! As a 73 year old white woman Episcopal priest with Universalist sensibilities -- proudly feminist since my mid-20s -- I applaud younger feminists and womanists (black feminists) of various generations for their bold, intelligent efforts to achieve and sustain some equality in our patriarchal society, founded and structured on long-standing assumptions of white male supremacy. No question there has been progress in the past 50 years, but we all have years, and generations, to go, building on the contributions of our foremothers in the movement. I still recall the good Christian gentlemen who stated to my face that "God would sooner ordain a cow than a woman," and the Episcopal bishop who, sitting across from me in an airport waiting room, reached over and began rubbing my thigh as he explained to me why women should not be ordained as priests: "They're too emotional!" As they say down here in the South, where I reside: God bless his little heart.
33
Key word: fantasy. Very little about TV resembles life as most of us live it. And now that I’m retired, I realize the problem often was with having any boss, male or female.
22
45-51 year olds are examples of their generation but not the women who really broke ground. I grew up in corp America in the late 60s-1970s; women 10-15 years older than I were my examples and mentors - they had to fight to even wear pants to work. Sure there were occasional "Queen Bees"; but it is fallacious to suggest most women who "made it" slept their way there or bought it by acting like men, and then turned on women behind them. My best mentors were strong, smart women who'd worked hard to achieve their positions - admittedly in mid-mgmt, not Sr. VPs or Pres and certainly not CEO in 70s-80s - but they could "see" and support me with guidance, opportunities, positioning and exposure to sr. mgmt. Having made it to Sr. VP myself, it seems since the '80s younger women have gone backward: The Bachelor, the Hiltons, the Kardashians, Jersey Wives - women who are famous for being famous - and often tacky, trashy and dumb to boot, became social icons and really bad examples for young women. Like some women have dragged themselves backward culturally, socially and professionally, rather than helping all women get ahead. I don't understand that, other than as an example of media governed by men who impose their view of women through shallow depictions grounded in comedy and/or romance.
63
I'd say focusing on the It Girls of today obscures that we're nearing the centennial of the original It Girls.
At the some time, it's notable that the generation you mention as leading was from the '40's, '30's, and even '20's, as that dates them to an era in which women were integrating into the workforce in reaction to the World Wars, and then had it taken away when WWII ended and society (including many women) decided that a return to quiet "normalcy" and domesticity was in order. You can even see how female leads stopped being working women and started being domestic after The War.
8
Many good points.
However the Kardashians, with matriarch Kris Jenner at the helm, have built a billion dollar empire.
In terms of power in our Capitalist society, perhaps the numbers speak for themselves—and indeed women entrepreneurs are rarely glorified as their male counterparts.
Maybe we need to embrace women in power, flaws and all. Otherwise we will individually strive in futility, whereas by creating networks of power—systemic change will take place.
6
@Tessa
Women like the Kardashians? They are in power by feeding into male sexual fantasies. How does that help create a culture in which women can aspire to be valued for their intellect, leadership skills, human-ness?
Just because they are women doesn’t mean they progress the women’s cause (and by the way, vice versa).
I just yesterday read about Phyllis Schlafly, who led a crusade to stop the Equal Rights Amendment from being ratified to the US constitution. She was successful. All her power came out of removing power from women. History is replete with such women and we should try not to venerate them. History is also replete with amazing women who understand the concept of equality. Let’s build them up.
54