Kids who bully others and take away from other children's education should be punished. The fact is that schools today DO NOT (at least in NYC) enforce consequences for bad behavior. I think that fines would be a wake up call for parents who are in denial about their kids' malicious behavior.
As a public school teacher, I can confirm that incidences of bullying and violence are grossly underreported and for the most part go without consequence--and often higher up school officials boast that violent incidences down. (No, the REPORTING of violent incidences is down!)
In the schools I've worked in, the perpetrators may cool off for a few minutes in an admin's office and then return to class without consequence. If your school has some semblance of order, they could be subject to a conference with a low level administrator (perhaps a dean or assistant principal) instead of the principal and perhaps a restorative circle to bring "justice" to the victim, but not more. Then, bullying then resumes as it was before. No wonder so many children do poorly in school. They are either afraid (victim) or plotting their next move (bully).
The only time I ever saw a school do anything to stop bullying was when a parent reported the bullying to 311. The parent was vocal and the principal was afraid of a story in the New York Post. The parents of the bully were very passive and nodded and smiled in meetings but provided their child with no consequences. So the school had to take action.
3
Kids who bully other children usually learn such behavior from their parents. Hence, fining the guilty parents makes perfect sense.
3
One of my boys in grade 8 or so went out with a couple other boys in the evening and came home to say he had been beaten up by them. I called the police who followed up with the parents. The deal was made that no charges would be laid if nothing like this happened again - and nothing did.
I and others have observed that schools are mostly ineffectual in controlling bullying.
A friend's boy was trained in self defense. A bunch of kids jumped him and the one on top of him landed in hospital with serious injuries.
Call the police. Press charges if necessary.
1
Many "bullying" behaviors are events that would be treated as felonious assaults if adults were involved. Police would respond.
Maybe parents should face consequences for their children's criminal behavior.
12
As with most policies, that discussed in this article has the devil in the details. How is it to be determined what constitutes bullying, especially as different cultures are likely to define bullying and perceive its consequences differently? Who will define "illegal bullying"? What will count as evidence? And, of course, a fine is simply a "cost of doing business" to the wealthy, but a real burden on the poor, perhaps one that would make bully-modeling parents further abuse their kids.
The hardest thing about being a parent is that you simply cannot do the one thing you want to do, and that is to protect your children. All you can do (and are obliged to do!) is give your kids the tools with which to interpret and manipulate the world they find themselves in, not a world you wish existed. Deny them that because of your own fears, and you are effectively guilty of child abuse.
In the desire to protect children, it is extremely important that we do not deny them the ability and self-confidence that comes from learning how to deal with hostile adversarial situations. It is much better and safer for five-year olds to get into a playground altercation, physical and/or verbal, and gradually through the years learn to deal with conflict. Shelter a kid too much and, if at seventeen he or she suddenly has to deal with things on their own for the first time, they are more likely to go to an extreme, either withdrawing into an emotional shell or reaching for a gun.
2
I'm wondering why schools can't address the psychological abuse of bullying in the same way they respond when a student physically attacks another student. Kids who jeopardize the physical safety of other students through physical assaults, threatening violence and/or bringing weapons to school are disciplined with suspension and/or expulsion, depending on the severity of the attack and whether it's a repeat offense. Especially since bullying has been linked to tragic school shootings, schools need to take this behavior seriously and recognize that -- far from being a harmless "kids will be kids" issue, tolerating ongoing bullying in our schools puts ALL of our children, teachers and staff at risk.
8
I am sorry folks, but the apple does not fall far from the tree. If dad is a bully, he is the role model for his son. My dad could not be bullied and he made iit clear to me that every bully is a coward. If you are no physical match for a bully the magic words are "I know who you are and if you lay a hand on me I will press charges for assault and battery. Just try me."
3
Let’s face it. Bullying is endemic in the workplace. The higher up you go, the more the bullies. Bullies climb the corporate ladder by kowtowing to their bosses and trashing who they consider is their competition. And that competition is usually the person who can actually do the job. So you have a lot of corporations and institutions whose management style is to lurch from made up crises to made up crises.
Look at the policing situation. In my neck of the woods, we recently had a police run over a fawn multiple times. He claimed he was euthanizing it. There was a video and apparently you can hear the fawn scream until it died. Nothing happened to him, I’m sure. The police probably all had a good laugh over both the suffering of the fawn and the soft-hearted people who protested this particular action.
Maybe if you’re a bully, these types of behaviour is acceptable ; but I think they are cruel and brutal and stupid and a dangerous precedent for society. If we don’t have to live this way and we don’t, why should we?
7
How about,
"bully someone and you and your parents will undergo family counseling"?
Sounds more likely to be effective than a bully who probably comes from crummy family circumstances facing a parent angered over a fine, thus perpetuating the cycle of violence.
7
Every bully I've ever encountered -- as a child and as a teacher -- was the product of the home he or she came from. A fine will have as much effect on the adult in charge as a traffic ticket has on the rotten, unsafe driver. The school authorities will suffer abuse by the bully's parents; the student victims will continue to be pushed around by the bully who will learn no lesson. Let's work on teaching the children who are bullied how to cope, how to defend themselves, who to come to for help whenever they need it.
3
This is beyond madness on so many levels, but here’s one:
You think parents are gonna discipline their kid if they get fined? No, they are going to blame the victim and take petty (or perhaps not petty) revenge.
Parents ferociously defend their children, even more so when it’s some “weak little tattle-tale” (so they will inevitably think) that’s “causing” them financial pain.
Not to mention the absolute whirlwind that the reporting teacher or school administrators will reap...
Dear god this is so misguided.
5
@PB, then I guess ultimately you think it best that bullying, with the physical & verbal assaults that are inherent should be ignored because any attempt to deter or punish will fail and only make the criminals mad. Remarkable insight & analysis. A brilliant approach to law enforcement issues of all kinds!
4
Some people would call what you’ve just done “bullying”. I certainly feel attacked on a personal level with your deliberately extreme (mis)interpretation and deep sarcastic tone...
What I’m saying is — in my opinion — if you want to really make life horrific for the bullied child, then by all means start fining the parents of the bully.
One can disagree on the best method to accomplish a goal we clearly all share.
I don't presume to know anything about what causes bullying or the best ways to protect kids from it.
But I do know that our culture is very harsh these days.
And a toxic, defiant bully is cheered by millions of the "base" as mocks and threatens while tearing down cherished institutions.
We are in a moment of cultural crisis.
5
@Baba It’s the culture. Bullies are valued starting at the top with the bully in chief.
1
The children who bully are the ones responsible for their actions, not the parents. The children who bully must face the consequences.
6
There are better words to describe these acts: assault and stalking. Using this “bully” language diminishes it for what it is, assault.
5
Alas, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
2
A child who bullies should be required to spend a week in a care facility staffed with psychiatric specialists who can analyze why the child is a bully and treat the condition.
If the parents are teaching bully behavior, the state can then require psychiatric treatment for the parents.
After a couple of bullies are removed from the school and placed in temporary psychiatric care, the message will be clearly delivered to the other children to change their bully behavior.
Those who do not, or cannot, are the future psychopaths or sociopaths who need to be identified as early as possible. Preferably before they enter their schools with automatic rifles.
A parent fine may work in some cases, but the serious systemic bully problems require more than a check to the court.
5
A friend of mine who is a high school counselor once told me, "Show me a crazy kid, and I'll show you a crazy parent every time."
We need more of these protections enacted and on a national scale! Through early intervention and education, bullying is something we can prevent. Fines and penalties seem like a reasonable way to go.. What have we got to lose?
3
Bullying is so cruel. And it seems to be contagious. A fine is a start. At least it provokes a conversation.
3
I'm glad to see an attempt to address bullies, rather than the bullied. Too often we see efforts to keep children from being bullied, but rarely any efforts to keep children from being bullies.
5
Some of the comments posted here are appalling, by any measure of human decency. The crisis in adolescent suicide and the normalization of retaliatory violence are clearly related to bullying. As seen in some responses, there is an underlying problem with parents tolerant of criminal behavior by their children. Any parent rationalizing that society benefits when advantaged children can verbally or physically assault others deserves the opportunity to experience those same benefits as an inmate in a state prison or county jail. That being said, bullying is a complex issue, not amenable to simple, emotionally driven solutions. Obviously there need to be preliminary steps and recognition for good-faith attempts at parental intervention. Any fines must be based on household income. School based counselling needs to play a role, adequate resources must be available at taxpayer expense. Yesterday, there was a local news story here in Weston, Florida, reporting a that a 14 year old was seized by 6 older teammates on a soccer team & stripped naked as part of an initiation. The child's parents reported the assault to local police after the coach failed to do so. To me the most appalling aspect, the CBS 4 TV reporter (Joan Murry) described the behavior as a "ceremony", without ever using the words hazing, bullying or assault. When informed adults choose to minimize criminality in that fashion, the obstacles preventing effective response to bullying become even more daunting..
8
Our schools have a zero tolerance policy. Takes effort, but a 5th grader was expelled when she repeatedly bullied other students. A fine to be paid by her parents wouldn't have been effective. Before being expelled she was suspended. I personally think in school suspension would be effective. Have the student spend the day in the administration office and self study. No recess, no spending time with friends. Make the student understand they will personally suffer if they repeat the behavior.
5
@Lauren Noormae - I applaud the school's actions, but fear, especially if the parents have money, an expensive lawsuit they could launch will cost the school district time and money. I hope not and your solution (in school suspension) could avoid that as well.
The hardest thing about being a parent is that you simply cannot do the one thing you want to do, and that is to protect your children. All you can do (and are obliged to do!) is give your kids the tools with which to interpret and manipulate the world they find themselves in, not a world you wish existed. Deny them that because of your own fears, and you are effectively guilty of child abuse.
As with most policies, that proposed in this article has the devil in the details. How is it to be determined what constitutes bullying, especially as different cultures are likely to define bullying and perceive its consequences differently? Who will define "illegal bullying"? What will count as evidence? And, of course, a fine is simply a "cost of doing business" to the wealthy, but a real burden on the poor, perhaps one that would make bully-modeling parents further abuse their kids.
In the desire to protect children, it is extremely important that we do not deny them the ability and self-confidence that comes from learning how to deal with hostile adversarial situations. It is much better and safer for five-year olds to get into a playground altercation, physical and/or verbal, and gradually through the years learn to deal with conflict. Shelter a kid too much and, if at seventeen he or she suddenly has to deal with things on their own for the first time, they are more likely to go to an extreme, either withdrawing into an emotional shell or reaching for a gun.
2
I see one serious problem with this: Kids who bully other kids are often bullied or even abused at home. Fines may make that worse.
My daughter was bullied by a much larger girl at her expensive Montessori school. The teachers and administration were unable to stop it. It turned out the bully herself was being smacked around by her father, dismayingly.
I worry that fines would put the child bullies in harm's way in their own families. Where else could young kids have learned bullying behavior in the first place, except at home??
67
@Feminist ......if a school's action reveals that a child is "in harms way in their own family", the school has the legal responsibility to report the family to social service and/or the police.
21
This is a common fallacy. Bullies may be abused at home, but no more than the population overall. It is more likely from Affluenza or entitled, indulgent parents. Parents should be held accountable. I hope this legislation passes.
30
This is a fantasy, as way too many parents partake in aggressive disciplining on their kids. It is publicly visible at times.
And Standard practice for certain “cultures”.
1
Speaking as a retired school teacher, it’s about time parents are held partially accountable for their children’s behavior. Long overdue!!
117
@William B. "partially"? Where do you think school aged bullies learn their behavior?
2
This sounds like a bad idea, created by someone who has no clue about how to design incentives and disincentives that achieve some desired goal without having unintended consequences. In this case, I doubt a fine will meet the goal of lowering bullying. I also suspect that it may make matters worse. What is a poor family going to do if they cannot afford the fine? Bullies probably need family therapy, but any fine will take money away from that.
6
@ Todd Johnson, as with.all civil fines, the amount of the fine cannot serve as a deterrent or approximate justice unless it is imposed as a percentage of household income & assets. The validity of fixed civil fines has gone the way of economic equality, extinct in North America. All civil fines, not just those discussed here, but all covil fines must be set according household assets or ability to pay. Frankly, easily accomplished if there is any real commitment to the concept of justice & equal protection under the law. The fact that there has not been any widespread advocacy for this reform simply establishes how badly our legal institutions and political advocacy have taken anti-democratic positions. Right before our eyes!
1
Unless students are home schooled or attend
a private school they must attend a Public School.
They have an absolute right to be SAFE.
I know that Teachers are very busy and I know that
students can be very sly about when the insult
and threaten other students but there is no excuse
for bullying.
Keep them after school, suspend them,
fine their parents and provide monitors
to end all bullying - NOW !
7
As someone who was frequently bullied as a child, I think this is a bad idea. Bullying is part of human nature. Some people are just like that. Part of growing up is learning to deal with (usually, stay away from) people like that. Being bullied was unpleasant, but was an important part of my growth as a person. These examples are not what I'd consider to be extreme at all.
1
I was a minor bully until I switched schools for tenth grade. Nothing horrific, but still something I'm embarrassed about.
Lots of visits to the principal's office. That behavior simply wouldn't have been tolerated at my new school. I knew that, and so did everyone else.
Couple of rebuttals of points from other commenters. I definitely was not abused at home, verbally or otherwise. My single mom raised my sister and I, and she was not the type to condone inappropriate behavior of any sort. My dad was around, and he also didn't have a trace of abusive and bullying behavior towards us. Bullying was neither a learned behavior from being the recipient of such, nor was it encouraged by parents who others would describe as manifesting sociopathic traits.
I was merely bored out of my mind, I should have skipped a grade or three. Straight As in the advanced classes without putting forward any real effort. I read these obituaries in the NYT of academically gifted kids who graduated high school before getting their driver's licenses, who started college when they should have been in the eleventh grade. I think that should have been me, social aspects aside.
Also I didn't realize it until adulthood but my parents went through a divorce when I was around 6 years old. I thought it didn't really affect my sister and I. Obviously it did, no one is immune from a less than ideal home environment. I was probably acting out on top of the boredom.
There's no one size fits all cure.
5
@foodalchemist Here is the key: "That behavior simply wouldn't have been tolerated at my new school. I knew that, and so did everyone else. " -- Every school should be like that!!!
2
A good intention. A bad idea. Imposing fines on the general population has become the substance of addiction among governing authorities. They are beyond out of control, and have very little compelling counter-force to seek real solutions. They are the among the worst offenders in the arena bullying. They use fines and taxes. Real solutions are ahead. This is not one of them.
12
Is this just going to end up being a "he said, she said" kind of thing? How do you enforce this? Unless it's cyberbullying or something of a written nature, how do you provide evidence?
Bullying is not physical schoolyard fights anymore. That notion is from the past. Kids are way smarter now. They know a physical fight will 100% get them in trouble. Now they know how to manipulate. They know how to exclude, make backhanded compliments, and so forth. If a whole group excludes one person - does everyone get hit with a fine?
I don't think a monetary fine is the solution. After all - children learn their values from what they see around them. It is hard to reeducate and "fix" what is deeply rooted in the family's values and the culture of that family or community. It will only breed resentment that their sincerely held beliefs and opinions are being suppressed and punished.
5
@K
Look, when a kid goes out of his way to get to the other end of the school to hurl his insults or trip a kid, it's not "he said, she said. And, yes, it's just as insidious as you say. But let's put a price on it. There is already one for the victim.
2
@K As a middle school teacher, I have to say that you'd be shocked at the amount of it that is provable with the very evidence you suggest... "something of a written nature"... adolescents live their lives on their phones and it's easier to prove bullying now than ever.
3
@K. You make a great point about how bullying isn't always confined to one bully and can become a "team sport." I was reminded of Judy Blume's book "Blubber" in which an entire 5th grade class conspires to torment a fat girl who gave a book report about whales. There was one ringleader who initiated the bullying but then other classmates joined in and it became entertainment for the entire class, and no one stood up for the victim until the end of the book. As another commenter pointed out, bullying is tolerated and thrives in the culture of some schools but in other schools, would-be bullies know not to even go there. So studying the differences between schools with low and high rates of bullying could help identify best practices that principals at other schools could put in place to change their school culture to one that is less favorable for bullying.
2
Can't even imagine who gets to define 'bullying' v typical kids being mean; and how this is enforced, especially without 'due process' into the inevitable he said/she said nature of many kids' squabbles. They will certainly need a document trail, or there will be endless lawsuits.
12
@Pat B well... being shoved into a locker and told to kill yourself seem like a pretty good definition of bullying to me. In fact, bullying is like work place harassment, it is defined by a power imbalance (related to social status in adolescents) and it is pervasive and persistent. Or at least, that is what the schools I have worked in define it as, and it seems like a very good definition to me. Just because it isn't easy to define doesn't mean that it is not worth attempting to root out and reduce if not eliminate.
15
@Laura I, too, am a teacher. Most schools have strict anti-bullying policies, education and intervention- which is great. The type of things you're talking about is more akin to 'assault' and generally easy to document and find witnesses too. Good luck to the Administrators, especially in elementary school, who have to wade through the muck of kids being mean to each other- which they do with some regularity, often being friends again the next day, and tease out what's serious and what isn't. Once the parents get involved, it will become a morass of finger-pointing. And what are they going to do with parents who can't pay the fine? This has no power of the law behind it.
2
The first step is to have remedial education for the parents and children who are bullying. What it is for a start. Most parents dont have a clue what bullying is. And it doesnt stop in school either. I have seen bullying in the workplace as well. Not to mention in politics. Bullying can cause life long scars, not to mention triggering violent outbursts including those with guns.
12
I was violently bullied as a child, the parents never wanted to believe or “punish” their little “angels”. It long to past time parents are held responsible for theirs and their children’s failings.
16
The schools are ill equipped to handle bullying. My daughter quit going school and I then learned why. A gang of girls at school was bullying and threatening her and committing hate crimes against her. After they destroyed her bike and attacked her just off school grounds I called the police and they were aware of the gang, although the administrators at her school denied there was a gang problem at her school.
The solution is expulsion of bullies from regular school and their diversion to special schools. That has a deterrent effect, removes the guilty culprits who are disrupting the regular schools and protects their victims.
35
This is not a school problem. This is a public safety issue. The kids should record the incidences and the police should be called if laws were broken. Have the kids wear a go pro or police recording device and press the button when the bullying starts up. It is very similar to the Catholic Church's rape problem. If the police had become involved right from the start the problem would go away very quickly. The last thing the schools want is police involvement. They want to "handle" it from the inside so no-one knows about it.
17
@Free to be Me so every school that I have ever worked at has an SRO officer, a school resource officer, who works in conjunction with the disciplinary branch of the administration and deals with things like drug use, fights, threats of self-harm, weapons and other things that fall under their purview.
Also, it is illegal to film children without their permission. That is why we confiscate phones when they try to film fights and post it on snapchat.
4
@Laura. "It's illegal to film children without their permission." Hmmm... I get that about posting fight videos on social media, but not when it's a video for law enforcement of a child who is breaking the law. When a kid walks into a 7-11, they are being filmed by the store's security cameras without the store obtaining permission from the child or his or her parents. If the child shoplifts at the 7-11, the security camera evidence is not inadmissible due to lack of consent. I would think the schools could just send a letter home to parents advising them that police recording devices may be used in the school to collect evidence of bullying for law enforcement, or add a statement to that effect to all of the paperwork we have to sign at the beginning of the year regarding the school handbook, Internet policy, etc.
2
@Rebecca Grace We have security cameras. Most schools do. Our school resource officer, law enforcement, has access to them. That is most definitely different than having kids film one another. It is viewed as an act of bullying to film another student without their permission, as is mentioned in the article. The idea of going to a school filled with 12 year olds wearing chest mounted GoPros is... well.. no thank you. Talk about a distraction from fractions and the rock cycle.
2
Are they also going to pay for all the services that go along with children these days?
@Eric G
What services? And why not?
1
Abstractly this is good idea. However, as with most policies, the devil is in the details. How is it to be determined what constitutes bullying, especially as different cultures are likely to define bullying and perceive its consequences differently? And, for practical purposes, who will define "illegal bullying? And, of course, a fine is simply a "cost of doing business" to the wealthy, but a real burden on the poor, perhaps one that would make bully-modeling parents further abuse their kids.
As well, in the desire to protect children, it is extremely important that we do not deny them the ability and self-confidence that comes from learning how to deal with hostile adversarial situations. It is much better and safer for five-year olds to get into a playground altercation, physical and/or verbal, and gradually through the years learn to deal with conflict. Shelter a kid too much and, if at seventeen he or she suddenly has to deal with things on their own for the first time, they are more likely to go to an extreme, either withdrawing into an emotional shell or reaching for a gun.
The hardest thing about being a parent is that you simply cannot do the one thing you want to do, and that is to protect your children. All you can do but really are obliged to do is give your kids the tools with which to interpret and manipulate the world they find themselves in, not a world you wish existed. Deny them that because of your own fears, and you are effectively guilty of child abuse.
5
@Steve Fankuchen, your attempt to subvert discussion by claiming that bullying cannot be adequately defined or recognized, reflects poorly on your motivations or habits of thought. Just as the #MeTo movement has taught our society to accept preliminary complaints by rape & sexual harassment victims, assuming the validity of bullying complaints, subject to verification, will serve most of us very well. Only bullies & the corrupted adults that advocate their behavior are likely to object. Verifiably false accusations of bullying are not a notable problem in schools. Moving forward, the rapidly falling cost of surveillance cameras, facial & voice recognition software along with recording/data storage drives will greatly relieve the burdens on both adults & children reporting incidents. Imagine, the technology of repression used for the benefit of the powerless!
1
Is bullying defined, and is there a law against minors being found guilty by trial or judge in Wisconsin Rapids.
If not how can a parent be fined for this?
1
My daughter was never bullied or a bully, but I had to attend many gatherings of the parents of her class because one boy was being bullied. All these gatherings did absolutely no good, and took up a lot of time for everyone. Bullies will continue to bully, even if they do it secretly.
Then my son, 3 years younger, started to be bullied when he was in the 8th grade. He made the mistake of having the best grades in the class and bragging about them. I knew that parent-teacher gatherings would lead nowhere, so one week after we found out he was being bullied we had him enrolled in a different school. (By which time he had learned a good lesson in the value of being humble.)
9
We all know parents who insist their own little angels wouldn't misbehave. At least this might get their attention.
7
Having been bullied at school I would love to see this happen after, documented, attempts from the schools to stop the bullying. I have found that schools seldom follow their own policies on any issue but always claim they have those policies in place. They just don't enforce them.
18
Bullies descend from bullies.
I've been bullied...and I can tell you 100% that the parents teach their children those behaviors.
It's a constant breaking of the social contract, yet nothing seems to happen - except to those that point it out.
15
@Tom Well, yes. Bullies generally don't "outgrow" it. They turn into bullying bosses, bullying PTA members, bullying neighbors, bullying border patrol agents -- even bullying presidents. The problem is, many people admire them and few will go against them.
11
Bully kids who happen to be the products of bully parents will get their lights punched out when the fines arrive.
14
@KJ just what I was thinking. The fines are an invitation to the parents to beat their children.
2
@KJ From W.H. Auden's September 1, 1939:
"I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return."
6
Okay here we go - What actually constitutes bullying? Probably will take 2 years for a 20 page legal description to pass Congress, then a 2 year court case, then five years for the Supreme Court ruling.
How did the millions and millions of us get through school before?
4
@SLG Well, I daresay millions of you got through by unrestrained bullying.
14
One of the discouraging truths of parenting is that one’s child does not always act in accordance with a parent’s views or teachings. Another truth, that parents don’t necessarily have the leverage to change those behaviors or the means to supervise their children 24 hours a day; during school hours, some of that supervision is necessarily on school staff. Protect those who are bullied? Yes, absolutely! Hold a child accountable for changing their behaviors? Yes! But fining parents? There’s a good chance they are already aware of the problem and are stymied in the same ways as educators in getting through to the kid. Sometimes in parenting one has to white-knuckle it and try many possible avenues before one will stick. All the fines in the world can’t force a kid to grow up more quickly or to make better choices in the meantime. So we’re back to: What can schools and parents, in partnership, do to ensure that all students are offered a safe place to learn?
23
@Anne Stone My children sold me on their need for cell phones for "safety". Then when I got them cell phones, they wouldn't answer my calls. So I told them "If you do not answer my calls, I will not pay your bill." And they began to answer my calls. I don't see anything wrong with saying to your kids, "If you hit me in the wallet, it's going to cost you." If a parent has to pay a fine, then that's less money available for cell phones, computers, tv, video games, designer clothes and collections of sparkley unicorns.
20
@December
For over half the kids in the Houston and outlying school districts, that fine is less money for food or rent or medical care. Over half of all students in our districts are below the poverty line. This is all part of the so-called "Texas Miracle".
6
@December I love your answer. Thank you. Perhaps common sense is alive and well after all.
5
When I was in middle school, I had a friend whose younger brother had a severe form of autism. The public school did little but warehouse him with an aide for 6 hours a day. Her parents then found a wonderful but expensive private school where he thrived. They petitioned the public school, successfully, to pay the tuition as the system was not providing their son with an education. I am not an attorney but my question is this: aren’t the girls in this article entitled to the same? The parent has given the school multiple chances to remedy the problem. His daughters continue to be subjected to physical assault and verbal harassment. They now fear attending class. What about their right to an education?
24
@ExArmyDoc
Speaking from personal experience, and not to target you or your idea to help, I ask that you consider this: I can say that in many cases schools are quite willing to entertain the idea of a student leaving its district. I know of many examples within my city's district that the administration voiced politically-correct concern, did not correct the problem, and sighed and gave a sad smile and wave as parents pulled their kids for safer options elsewhere. Eliminates the concern (district's liability), although at the district's expense. Problem is, a bullied student should have the right to an education, free from harm in any way, in that student's own district, own school, and own classroom. The child who is the bully should be the one who should be removed (workplace harassment law similarly dictates, although that's a subject for a different platform/different day). What does moving the targeted child do? Reinforces the idea he/she/they do not fit and should go somewhere else, while the perpetrator gets to stay? That's a problem.
Signed, Parent who is sick and tired of being sick and tired. My kid matters.
7
At age 62, I still suffer the scars inflicted by the bullying inflicted on me for years by siblings, classmates, and even my grandmother.
Bullying is soul-killing and in many cases prevents very bright and creative individuals from living up to their full potential. What a loss to society...both of the contributions we could have made as well as the monetary cost sometimes required to help support those of us who were so wounded that we cannot even hold a steady job and live independently.
Fortunately I am able to pay my own way, but my life has been severely circumscribed by the mental and emotional anguish brought on by the relentless bullying. It must be stopped!
However, fining the parents of bullies is not necessarily the complete (or even best) solution. Schools must become focused on educating children from kindergarten onward not to bully, to prevent others from doing so, and how to document incidents and ask for adults' help when needed.
21
I'm pretty sure that this approach is not legal. It seems like a violation of due process. I don't believe that one person, even a parent, can be held accountable for controlling the actions of another person.
2
@MHW If your kid breaks something in a store, you have to pay for it. How is this any different, in terms of putting the burden of a child's actions onto their parent?
3
@Samuel As for being required to pay for something your kid breaks in a store, I'm not so sure this is legal. It may be social custom that pressures you to do this, but as for holding you legally responsible for it (by making you pay for it), you'd have to check if there are any actual laws. And I would think there are none.
1
@MHW, unless I missed something, the article discussed ordinances passed by local jurisdictions that established the authority to impose fines. All 50 states provide a limited legal foundation for local governments to pass laws, statutes or ordinances that support the function of the local jurisdictions subordinate to state government. Thus, most local jurisdictions should be able to enact the requisite legal basis for imposing & collecting fines and otherwise enforcing their local ordinances. There should be few opportunities to overturn reasonable & appropriate fines in amounts calculated case by case, on a percentage of household income. Using a percentage of household income corrects the inevitable injustice that occurs with fines of fixed dollar amounts. The $313 fine described in the article would be inconsequential for a household enjoying a 6-figure income while at the same time presenting an acute financial emergency for a single parent earning the median hourly wage in rural Wisconsin. When the fixed amount of the fine itself introduces inevitable injustice, the effort to deter bullying will not be sustained & is doomed to fail.
1
It's a good thing that this issue is being addressed. I also think this approach will bring unintended consequences.
Since most school bullies grow up to be police officers, politicians and CEOs, it is unsurprising that the first response would be to bully parents into addressing their children's behavior. Given the complexity of defining what actually constitutes bullying (remember "I know it when I see it?") and the further difficulty in producing evidence, I see protracted and absurd litigation emerging. The question will certainly become politicized, with right wingers claiming freedom of speech issues, and the woke police pursuing the tiniest offense.
Before you ask, no, I don't have a better solution, although I think the answer may lie in the way we structure education, and the things we ask our children to prioritize. There is often a cognitive dissonance between what children experience at home, what they are "taught" in school, and what they have to deal with on the playground.
A divided society will be reflected in the lives of our children. We really need to fix ourselves, to become something we would be pleased to see our children imitate.
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@michaeltide: _Statistics please about how most school bullies grow up to be police officers, politicians, or CEO's. The biggest bullies from my school career ended up more frequently as unemployed drug addicts or committed suicide at an early age.
1
Not enough money. Should be $1000 - $2000.
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The bully should be charged with a crime, sent to juvenile court and offered diversion whereas the bully must participate in a program and once completed, the charge is dismissed. Of course there are usually fees for the program, so the parent will be forced to pay something. What charge- there's plenty ie. threats and intimidation, harassment, disorderly conduct, simple assault, etc.
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In addition to a monetary fine, the bully must be allowed to apologize to the bullied in the same arena in which the bullying occurred. If it was in the classroom, on the playground, etc. All the participants and observers should be in attendance as were there during the bullying.
There should be some kind of reconciliation of both children so they can move forward in a different way. Neither should be ostracized or be made to feel less than. In some schools, all bad behavior is called bad manners. That is bad manners to call someone a name. In a way, it softens the correction.
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@Nanny goat
So the bully will be forced to apologize in the same arena. All the while the bully is saying under his breath to the victim that the victim will pay for this. It's only a dream to think that when the bully says "sorry," that it will change anything.
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@Steve Perhaps in the principal's office with both sets of parents ... but somehow, the abuser must apologize to the sufferer.
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@Steve: Of course, the bully must be aware that the next step will be expulsion from school, forced attendance at another school, or reform school. The victim needs to know that he or she will be supported if the bullying continues.
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Abstractly this is good idea. However, as with most policies, the devil is in the details. How is it determined what constitutes bullying, especially as different cultures are likely to define it and perceive its consequences differently? And, for practical purposes, who will define "illegal bullying?
As well, in the desire to protect children, it is extremely important that we do not deny them the ability and self-confidence that comes from learning how to deal with hostile adversarial situations. It is much better and safer for five-year olds to get into a playground altercation, physical and/or verbal, and gradually through the years learn to deal with conflict. Shelter a kid too much and, if at seventeen he or she suddenly has to deal with things on their own for the first time, they are more likely to go to an extreme, either withdrawing into an emotional shell or reaching for a gun.
The hardest thing about being a parent is that you simply cannot do the one thing you want to do, and that is to protect your children. All you can do but really are obliged to do is give your kids the tools with which to interpret and manipulate the world they find themselves in, not a world you wish existed. Deny them that because of your own fears, and you are effectively guilty of child abuse.
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@Steve Fankuchen
You sure used a lot words to say, bullying is okey. Or might is right.
Bullying is a difficult thing to solve but I think we should commit to finding some viable ways to solve it.
Bullies are not happy people and no one likes to be around them. Letting young people grow up to be unpleasant and alienated creates even more problems in the adult world. These are people who grow up to be oppressive and jealous of anyone who they believe is better than them. They will engage in any outrageous behaviour to stifle competition. They are problems and we need to fix them.
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@Steve Fankuchen: Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart once said about obcenity that he cannot define it, but he knew it when he saw it. That pretty much sums up how to define bullying.
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Mr. Broeren, the school superintendent, insists that he should get credit for some secret action that he alludes to. But he can't tell anybody about it. Really?!? Come on -- require the bullies to make a public apology. Secretiveness only helps bullies and people like them. That sounds like extremely weak and ineffectual administration.
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@Kevin O'Donnell
So the bully will be forced to apologize ... all the while the bully is saying under his breath to the victim that the victim will pay for this. It's only a dream to think that when the bully says "sorry," that it will change anything.
Children bully because of what they see or experience at home.
1. Fining parents is likely to make whatever situation - physical, emotional, financial - that is contributing to the bullying worse, thus putting the child and family under more pressure.
2. It will take children all of 5 minutes to figure out this is another tactic that can be used to harass another child - and by extension their family will also be pulled into it.
3. Rich people can just buy off the bullying, ignore the underlying issues, or pay for counselling. Poor people could end up losing their homes or experiencing food insecurity.
Only people with disposable incomes would try to buy their way out of looking for solutions instead of levying punishment.
BTW I don't know who came up with the belief that bullying occurs outside of adult supervision - more like ignored or oblivious in my experience.
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This is an incredibly stupid idea. The only thing I can imagine would be a result if this type of action is that the bully would reinforce their bullying behavior because they were made to pay for it somehow. The article is right, anti-bullying programs often don't work They have even been shown to "empower" the bully because they focus on self esteem and being a bully is how they feel good about themselves. I was bullied in middle school. I had to be ready to fight to stop it and let them know I was serious ( I did stop one of them that way and still get satisfaction from it), however, I should not have been put in that position. Sometimes, if I stood up to them, they would come after me with all their friends. There is no recourse other than to remove the bully from the school. My worst bully was expelled and even though her friends continued to verbally attack me none of them physically attacked me because she had to go to a school where the next step for her was juvenile detention. Most bullies should probably go straight to juvie if their behavior is bad enough. Criminals should be removed from society and it should start in school.
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@HeatherD Bullies do not suffer from a lack of self-esteem. They suffer from an overabundance of unearned self-esteem.
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I wish that such a law had been in effect where and when I attended school. Much of that bullying was encouraged at home. Of that I feel certain.
An irate parent stuck with a $313 fine would put a stop to it, just as he or she earlier may have encouraged it.
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When will the bullying hysteria pass? The strong have bullied the weak since time immemorial. It happens (and has happened and will continue to happen) in schools, churches, companies large and small, sports teams, governments - basically anything that involves people. It’s not limited to our species either. Is it fair? Of course not but little of life is.
Having said that, more parental accountability for what their child does - in and out of the classroom - is a good thing.
4
@Andy Deckman with that logic why do we have rules against anything? People steal, it's always going to happen so why do anything about it. Maybe someone should bully you and you can see how you like it.
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@Andy Deckman with that logic why do we have rules against anything? People steal, it's always going to happen so why do anything about it. Maybe someone should bully you and you can see how you like it.
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@Andy Deckman It is not just hysteria. We now know more about mental health and the links between bullying and suicide. Because we now know more, we should act upon it. Instead of “bullying” insert “STDs” or “gun violence” and you will see that your argument is rather poor. Just because things have been a certain way in the past doesn’t mean it is correct. That’s a fallacy.
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If another kid tells your child to kill themselves, you don't want to see "intermediate steps." Fines sound like a great idea.
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that's it? A fine?
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@Talbot: A fine is a good start, with further measures if the bullying does not stop immediately.
1
Seems like the bully is the one who should be punished. Suspension and community service? Expulsion and community service? Juvenile court? Of course, this is after all parent-school attempts have failed to correct the problem.
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The threat of a fine is necessary to make some parents pay attention (those who are paying attention already aren't the problem).
Worth a try.
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"Dr. Amanda Nickerson… said the key to engaging parents was to set up meetings between them and teachers to discuss how to encourage good behavior, before seeking any kind of penalty."
Dr. Nickerson knows this language to be cowardly professional psycho-sludge. Mr. O'Brien and many other parents who have appealed in vain to school administrators for surcease of student bullying have been hearing such evasions for years from certified professionals.
The perps and their recalcitrant parents should first be JAILED, any dialogue toward reform to take place behind steel bars, a useful clue toward appreciation of the seriousness of the offense.
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@vishmael
Amen!
3
Me thinks I have an idea on how to bankrupt our President.
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@GPG (slow clap) well said.
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@GPG
"Be Best."
But she didn't specify best at what.
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@GPG he's pretty good at the bankruptcy thing already.
8
The government should not be getting involved in a blanket way when it comes to school bullying. It's up to parents and schools to figure it out and it should always be up to them. This just fuels the excessively litigious nature of American society. Kids bully for a reason, and i'm sure something like this will disproportionately target single-parent and low-economic families who probably can't pay a fine like this.
Rather than a fine to the parents, we may want to consider how they may need help and provide it. That's what compassionate communities do. Not this nonsense.
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Christopher, you are right. As with driving, the rich think of fines simply as a "cost of doing business", such in no way acting to deter bad behavior i.e. acting in a way that harms others.
As with most policies and laws, the devil is in the details. How is it determined what constitutes bullying, especially as different cultures are likely to define it and perceive its consequences differently? And, for practical purposes, who will define "illegal bullying?
As well, in the desire to protect children, it is extremely important that we do not deny them the ability and self-confidence that comes from learning how to deal with hostile adversarial situations. It is much better and safer for five-year olds to get into a playground altercation, physical and/or verbal, and gradually through the years learn to deal with conflict. Shelter a kid too much and, if at seventeen he or she suddenly has to deal with things on their own for the first time, they are more likely to go to an extreme, either withdrawing into an emotional shell or reaching for a gun.
The hardest thing about being a parent is that you simply cannot do the one thing you want to do, and that is to protect your children. All you can do but really are obliged to do is give your kids the tools with which to interpret and manipulate the world they find themselves in, not a world you wish existed. Deny them that because of your own fears, and you are effectively guilty of child abuse.
1
@Christopher Dessert
What do you mean by "kids bully for a reason? What reason? Because the victim is fat or ugly or dirty or whines or too smart or too unintelligent or weak or uncool or weird? All parents -- rich and poor -- have equal responsibility for their kids' behaviors. I agree that fines are no solution -- to anything. But compassion for poor parents is not going to help the miserable, beaten kids who are the victims of those parents.
2
@Christopher Dessert: One big problem is that the bully's parents often see no need for the bully to change his or her behavior. (I say this as someone who served on a board of education for 12 years.) I agree with you, often there are big problems in the bully's family that need professional help.
Bullying went on when I grew up in the 60's, but social media has amplified its effect to an extent that it can drive a child to suicide. A nasty taunt or a crank call in the 60's was only heard by bystanders and disolved into thin air immediately. Cyberbullying is on the net forever and immediately visible to anyone who wants to see it.
I like this. I would also like to see the parents held criminally liable for the actions of their abusive children.
10
I think this is too far; childhood is the time that we try to turn our little impulsive social animals into cooperative individuals with self control, and this happens at different times for different kids. If a kid never meets a bully, then that kid will never have to toughen up - and I know that sounds archaic, but the world is full of people who will try to intimidate and swindle you. A little backbone is needed.
But, it doesn't matter what I think. This proposal is DOA in the communities whose children need the most protection: children in poverty, particularly children of color.
The Milwaukee Public Schools, for example, would never embrace this level of punitive financial accountability. What good does it do to levy fines upon a parent who is likely to be in poverty anyway?
In Milwaukee, the County Executive has declared systemic racism a public health crisis, so I don't think there's much appetite for fining any black or brown parents for their kids' bullying.
3
@Patrick. What leads you to the conclusion that bullying happens more frequently in low income communities than more affluent ones?
3
Great idea! These kids are misguided brats who have a detrimental effect on the education of other students. If their parents can’t rein them in, they should pay. In my Catholic school long ago, the head nun would end this problem quickly by hauling culprits into her office for an intimidating scolding followed by a forced apology. Problem solved most of the time. I find the current school systems too lax, letting this psychologically damaging behavior drag on. Where is the authority of the adults? It’s pathetic. They are pathetic. Are they scared of 12 year old bullies or their arrogant bully-enabling parents? Why do they need a lengthy bully curriculum? It is bad, mean behavior. Stop it!
Astoundingly my sister recently told me of students who were repeatedly bullied in public school in Westchester being directed to go to another school, farther away in most cases. Here’s another idea for these brilliant school administrators: Send the bully to another school. If the parents have to provide transportation, be assured the bullying will end quickly. Why on earth would a student being bullied have to find another school, while the bully stays? That is insane.
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Instead of fines that potentially place more hardship on pooper parents, why not expell the bully to continuation school, or offer some type of bully management education.
5
While we're at it, let's add a couple of zeros and fine Melania every time her child-husband tweeter-in-chief bullies someone. Then let's give that money to the individuals and groups who are working to salvage decency in this shredded society.
24
I'm glad to see steps to hold parents accountable for their child's bullying of other children.
However, I think one more additional step is needed: mandatory psychological evaluation of the bully and their family to determine if there isn't an underlying cause to the behavior, such as dysfunctional dynamics. There is just too much social and monetary cost associated with dysfunctional people who are not criminals but just plain old mean people in school and the workplace.
But this is a step in the right direction.
35
Bullying is a natural and important part of early childhood development. It separates the strong for the chaff and prepares children for the harsh realities of life.
JFK once asked American's what they could do for America. Today everybody just wants the government to solve all their problems for them.
3
@Emily, we're not talking about the occasional swirly here; children are encouraging those they dislike to kill themselves. How exactly are we, as adults, okay with this?
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@Emily "The Chaff"? Seriously. It is scary that you think of some just children as just being "chaff" - as if they don't matter. We say we are a country of laws and yet some of the bullying behavior I saw and experienced as a kid would land the perpetrators in jail if they were adults. I think these fines are awesome. If we want to live in a civilized country of laws we should be teaching children about the consequences of their actions.
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@Emily
Exactly correct. But why should schoolchildren be the only ones to benefit from your philosophy? As an adult I should be able to harass and intimidate anyone I choose without consequence. Think of how much stronger our society would be. /s/
10
As a parent of a child that has been bullied, I fully support this type of legislation. The parents of the children that are bullying need to be engaged and "feel "the consequences of their children's actions.
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I was a frequent victim of bullying in school. In fact, I can more easily name those who bullied me than my friends several decades later. It was traumatizing and has had a lasting impact.
That said, I've also come to realize that many of my bullies had major sources of stress outside of school. They needed in-school support as much as I needed teachers and fellow students to stand up for me. Fighting bullying requires two things: (1) creating a positive school culture where bullying is seen as a violation of norms and (2) treating the root causes in a nurturing and understanding way.
This approach is a cop out. It falls back on police and penalties instead of counselors. It's an extension of the police state into potentially troubled homes. It exacerbates the "snitch" or "tattle tale" nature of reporting bullying and may make it worse.
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@Stephen
Yup, your approach is exactly what the ADULTS need to do. While we're waiting for your approach to be put into practice and have an effect, how about doing something for the poor kid who's being followed home from school by classmates who enjoy name calling and throwing rocks? Let's do something immediately helpful for the KID -- like fining mom and dad.
10
Teacher here. The apple never falls far from the tree. 90% of the time, when kids are bullying each other, lying, stealing, lording their wealth over others, they learned it at home. A well-crafted law like this would do a lot to make parents confront their bad parenting. But I worry that a poorly crafted law would lead to bully parents (think small town cops) encouraging their kids to hurt others in craftier ways that can't be easily documented.
53
Also, if this kind of parent is fined, they’ll likely take it out on their kid. I’d rather see mandatory therapy for the kid and/or parents.
6
@Boggle I have to say, a lot of the chronic bullying I see gets perpetrated by children that can "do no wrong" in their parents' eyes.
1
I'm glad to see this sort of legislation being considered. I was bullied in elementary school (long ago) and know how harmful it is. Because it can directly impact the lives of others, I think it deserves at least the same attention of petty crimes such as theft or shoplifting.
42