In 1996, thanks to the late Paul Gottlieb, President and Editorial Director of Harry N. Abrams, Inc., I was able to write a series titled Little-known Museums in and around Paris, London, Berlin and Rome. It was my modest response to overtourism. The most visited cities in the world still have secrets waiting to be uncovered. That is even true of Venice, which has many undiscovered treasures if you take the trouble to seek them out. That’s why I visit Venice every two years during the Biennale, which by the way remains under visited once the mad rush of parties and exhibition openings dies down. If people travel with the express purpose of learning, they will never be disappointed. But that takes a different mindset and not everyone is up to the challenge.
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Last year we arrived in Dubrovnik late in the afternoon in the middle of a huge thunder and lightning storm. We decided to go to old town anyway. It was wonderful. The streets were almost empty. After wandering around enjoying the sights we stopped for dinner outdoors under awnings. The restaurant had heat lamps and gave each of us a blanket. The pianist played beautiful classical music. Our dinner including seafood pizza was delicious. It was a magical evening. The next day under sunny skies the streets were packed with tourists shoulder to shoulder.
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One of my favorite trips ever was my 4th visit to Venice, in the dead of winter. My husband and I went to visit a friend who lives there the week of Christmas/New Year. We packed our warmest hooded parkas, stayed in an apartment in Cannareggio, went to Christmas midnight mass, tooled around the canals in our friend’s motor boat, ate chichetti at the bars that remained open during that week... A friend of our friend wrote a book called Venetian Ghost Stories, so we picked up an English copy in a bookstore and used that as our guide for late-night, post-dinner strolls around a beautifully eerie and empty Venice. A few memories that still make me laugh about the joys of traveling and that magical place: Once we were on a vaporetto when a group of agents boarded and asked everyone to produce their tickets (usually you can ride and no one checks.) Every single passenger ran to the other side of the boat, trying to get off before they were issued a fine for not having a ticket. My husband and I were the only passengers who had actually bought tickets. And another evening, we accidentally got ourselves stranded on Isola di San Michele (the island cemetery) because we didn’t understand Italian and didn’t know the people on the vaporetto were telling us it was the last pick-up for the day when we stepped off the boat. They eventually shrugged and left us saying something like “sono morti.” We luckily ran into a priest an hour or so later who took us back in the caretaker’s boat.
One thing I rarely see travel writers suggest is visiting the most popular destinations off season and with a tour.
I visited Venice, Florence and Rome in early March and faced few if any crowds. Our guide arranged for city guides in each location that included private tours of the Vatican museums, Sistine Chapel, etc.
I adored Venice and Florence and due to the lack of crowds, had the time for a totally immersive experience in both.
Rome has been on my bucket list for some time and I was glad for the opportunity to see the all of the most treasured sites like the Vatican, the city gates, etc. However, unlike Venice and Florence I would never return.
The city is dirty and dangerous. Criminals roam even the most fashionable streets and regularly accost tourists with impunity. Sightings of Carabinieri or Polizia are rare. The only place I felt truly safe was at our hotel on the Via Veneto. Police, shopkeepers and locals are rude and unhelpful and don’t get me started on Alitalia and the staff at Fiumicino Airport.
As a first-generation Italian and the only one in my group, it was shocking and embarrassing.
I have traveled extensively and unless you are limited by a school schedule, why anyone travels in season, particularly to popular European destinations is beyond me.
The experience is exceedingly better without the throngs, no matter the destination.
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Having just returned from Paris, I think Jason Horowitz is too forgiving of the crowds. Too many are more interested in photographing themselves, back to artwork or back to the edifice, than the artwork or edifice.Thankfully many Paris museums have banned selfie sticks (and guards jump on those who pull them out) and the attendants at Saint-Chapelle upper level call for "silence, s'il vous plaît" periodically. My daughter and I became frequent photo-bombers -- the only way to actually view art was to pretend the Instagramers weren't there. But I endorse Horowitz's off-the-beaten path or alternative destinations, even within a major city. On Thursday mid-day in Paris I sat undisturbed and alone in Delacroix's garden, blocks from the Louvre. The guard's hall at the Conciergerie is impressive and lightly trafficked. Even within the Louvre on Friday, the Near Eastern section is an oasis of tranquility.
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If the Venetians want people to respect their city, maybe they should start with respecting it themselves. The last time I was there I saw enormous advertising billboards right in Piazza San Marco. So inappropriate.
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Online tickets for everything and everywhere.
Just like online tickets for asylum seekers.
Don't come unless called.
To each its own, there is not ideal travel destination or ideal purpose to travel, I believe that most long distance travelers do it for the bragging rights of how far they have been.
Sometimes, I wear my tourist hat around my neighborhood to explore new cafes, bars and stores, I found that I do not need to travel far away to explore new things.
Being there, seen that, done that.
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The article is trying to show that you can have a wonderful time without going to the top 10 Instagram-able spots. There is magic in Venice but there is no do-or-die need to visit. Yes, there are positives, yes, you can go on off-season. But over tourism is ruining Venice - the grandmothers watching their grandchildren play soccer are gone, the local shops gone, the kind gentlemen who help lost tourists are gone. I saw an older woman beside herself because she couldn’t board a ferry and was going to miss her doctor’s appointment due to it being packed with tourists.
Too much tourism is morphing Venice into a dead-Disneyland-ish cruise ship destination. Want to buy mugs, postcards, faux-Venetian “masks-made-in-China” you will have hundreds of choices, want to buy a real Venetian mask made by craftsmen - long, long gone.
Commenters are saying that it’s elitist to make such statements. Take it how you will but the underlying question is what are you trying to achieve? Check-off-the-box, been-there-done-that. Then you are adding to the problem and that might be seen as a selfish act on your part. There are so many places you can go and have a great experience. Yes, actually I like Treviso too. Use your imagination try something different. Why are there seemingly so few choices for American tourists when there are gems to be seen all over?
An analogy; those who attend college can do perfectly well without all going to Harvard, Yale or Stanford.
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Obviously, well-known, limited-space sites are filling up, but locations can minimize the impact and enhance the experience. It's not that one should not travel - quite the opposite. Travel gets one out of a familiar (possibly narrow), comfort zone. Travel expands knowledge as it imparts enjoyment -- learning IS fun, after all. Ban selfie-sticks and cameras - make people LOOK. Limit access to x-number an hour/day - MOTIVATE. Market browsing? no buy, no photo - COURTESY. But, in the cities most impacted - Venice being only the poster child - the biggest contributors to population & environmental pollution are the more affordable, mega-large ships that promise a "luxurious cruise experience." The cost is deflected to the locals. Some/most? cruisers have no idea where they are or why they are there other than the promise of pampering in locations with cache -- see me, check it off. In Ketchican (bus, train, Marine Highway ferry), we met a man who had (give him credit), taken a bus from the ship to Totem Bright S.P. "Anything worth seeing here?" as the bus returned. Had he done his homework, I suggested, he would have known it was a Skansen-type collection of original poles & buildings from throughout the region - not the packed, cruise-built Saxman Village re-creation "experience." "But, I was on the cruise," he replied - as if he had parked his brain at home. Just stay on board. And, please, don't divert those ships to ruin a nearby town. Kotor, Valencia, resist!
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After spending the last seven years of half or more of the year in residence in Italy, I must say I agree with much of what Jason Horowitz has to say. Those who base their vacation itinerary on Instagram popularity are likely destined to miss most of the “off the tourist track” spots that make Italy such a joy to explore.
Granted, we are very fortunate to have the time and resources to enjoy Italy and the entire continent at a slower pace, but our “look the other way” approach has afforded us exposure to lots of spots that make Italy so endearing. Try Genoa and it’s nearby villages instead of the Cinque Terra crowds; the quiet openness of the Salento instead of Amalfi coast; a day trip to Agnone, where bells for Italian churches have been made for the past 1,000 years; or, Trieste and it’s gathering of architecture and culture reflecting rule from five different conquering powers over the last 150 years. The list is almost endless, and the opportunity for discovery almost boundless.
Yes, I have been to Venice, Rome, Naples, Florence and Milan all several times during my sojourn in Italy. But our travels to spots off the tour route itineraries are the ones I recall as the “real Italy”.
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Trieste is a wonderful, walkable city, with very few tourists and lots of beauty and history. It’s the home of Illy coffee, great food, proximity to Croatia and Slovenia. And Venice is a day trip away by train.
Visited Rome this past October, the main tourist attractions were jammed; the Vatican museum overrun with hordes of young Chinese visitors who did nothing but take selfie after selfie. The Sistine Chapel resembled the Port Authority after the ball drops. This list goes on and on......someone I know wants to visit Venice and
Amsterdam...I said go without me!
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We were in Rome a few years ago. We did our “homework” and found a private tour guide. We went to the Vatican and the Sistine Chapel -besides the security and our guide - there were 4 of us - for an hour. Unbelievable!
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Dear Mr. Horowitz,
If you find any other less-traveled perfect places in Europe, please keep it to yourself.
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Like many who have posted I’m so fortunate I experienced Venice for the first time in the 1960s. I remember my dad, as a photographer looking for locations, “discovered” Burano...an untouched treasure. I recall walking through the Scrovegni Chapel in Padua without anyone waiting in line. At the Uffizzi in Florence I spent hours with my imaginary friend, Leonardo, while studying his art. The cities themselves were treasures to imbibe. The piazzas hosed down at daybreak, before a morning cappuccino or an evening with hundreds of students arguing about art and gelato. Now, my 19 yr old son is doing a summer Italian intensive through his university in Venice. He’s made local friends who’ve already stretched him and pulled him into a new experience in an ancient culture. The kid who actually loves organic chemistry is learning language and art history in the classroom and living in it on the streets. That’s the thing: they’re not behind bullet proof glass like the Mona Lisa rather it’s simply everywhere. The crush of day trippers into Venice ought to be forbidden. It’s not right: it’s ruining a city whose charms are buried under a human avalanche. Lucky Venetians who through accident of birth live in this glorious place. Now they’re crushed and buried, unheard. The invasion is so intense you’re hard pressed to even hear Italian spoken. I reminisce back to Piazza San Marco circa 1968 when looking at the interior of Florian’s showed me in an instant the meaning of “jewel box.”
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When I stepped out of the Venice train station for the first time and took in the view of the Grand Canal the first thought that involuntarily popped into my 16 year old brain was, “Wow! This is better than Disneyland!” It is. But the resemblance is a shame.
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Tourists have to be taught to act better when they travel. Rome and other places now have laws that target bad behavior - wading into fountains, sitting munching food on church steps.It's also awful to see tourists in scanty clothes in a city where the locals dress so beautifully. Cruises don't spend money in the places they visit - maybe buying a cheap souvenir but not eating in the restaurants so they just fill up the place without contributing to the local economy.
I saw a bunch of tourists in short shorts and shanty t-shirts heading to the Grand Palace and the religious wats. How disrespectful; luckily it's not allowed but don't people have any sense?
Maybe pamphlets could be handed out on the plane about what is appropriate, illegal or just considerate behavior in the country the people are visiting along with the few words of courtesy - thank you, excuse me, etc.
3
Does the Times really not know what each hand is doing? Multiple articles sensibly questioning whether air travel is ethical as climate change mounts. And yet they still promote highly carbon-intensive long-distance travel.
People need to stay home now. It is highly irresponsible to get on a plane. It is too damaging.
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In Rome presently and don’t see how it is less attractive than 15 years ago. It’s a big city, it can absorb tourists. Use the metro, get off the beaten path. Florence? That was awful. Hot, insane crowds, and just not enjoyable. I will say this for all travel: see the sites that actually interest you, not what you are “supposed” to see. If you don’t like art at home why spend your vacation in line at the Accademia or Louvre? Go see history or science or walk, whatever. Yes, there will be some who lecture you, but it’s your trip.
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Venice 1978. Summer. The youth hostel on Guidecca had a massive hammer and sickle erected outside it on the canal side looking towards the main island (the regional government was communist as were many local Italian governments at the time). A crying heroin addict was my first sight of a Venetian as I left the night train from Vienna. Small change was given in sweets. The toilets were squat holes. The weather was clammy the police aggressive, perhaps not unreasonably. Still fond memories but it seems a lot has changed.
Padua. Also 30 minutes from Venice by train and full of priceless treasures including a Giotto fresco.
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I travelled around with a back pack 30 years ago in Africa, Middle East and USSR as well as Europe. Summer time in Europe is always busy and busier. There is always some quiet corner but you have to look. Spent a month in Venice@ peak tourist season last summer and found plenty of quiet places and the old fashioned Venice. I only dislike the huge groups. Small groups that are respectful are fine. #LoveToTravel
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I visited Venice with a high school choir in July 1974. Extremely hot and not much air conditioning. It was moderately crowded but really not too bad. And six of us could pool our money and not only afford to take a gondola ride but even buy the black and white Polaroid the gondola company took while we gliding along a canal. Of course, we stayed in an older part of town, with a bathroom down the hall that charged 600 lira (I think that was about $1 back then) to use the shower.
My husband and I went to Venice for the first time together for our 40th anniversary in 2017. We went in October so the weather was terrific. But the crowds were amazing, especially on the Rialto Bridge and taking the tour of San Marco. Two nights in a small hotel near the Grand Lagoon was around $200 a night (including breakfast - and the bathroom was private and the shower was free). Had an overpriced lunch too close to St. Marks square - a fun place to visit especially during "dueling bands" at night but don't eat there. And we didn't feel quite up to paying the E80 or so for a gondola ride.
The city can be quiet. I woke up early and got some amazing photos when it was just me and the delivery gondolas moving laundry and food around the city. As we are museum fans, we were surprised how quiet the museums generally were. And we did have a spectacular dinner in a quiet restaurant away from any canal. So if you go to Venice, go in the off season for 2-3 nights. Absolutely worth it.
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If you find a place you love: don't advertise it, tread lightly, and don't visit it enough to become a part of a problem.
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We commuted from Padua to Venice when we visited the area for a week a few years ago. Padua is a major destination in its own right. We were there in October and Venice was overcrowded, I can only image what it must be like in peak season. Bologna, Verona and many other Italian cities are well worth visiting. We also spent a week each in Naples, Rome and Milan. The Italian railway system is excellent, I strongly recommend it.
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@MickeyHickey I visited Verona in 1974 with a choir. Other than the Roman Colessium in the center of town (which was magnificent), I found it mostly a tourist trap for fans of Romeo & Juliet. We also had a very mediocre lunch (at least to my 17 year old palate). When my husband and I were planning our 2017 trip we didn't consider Verona, BUT once we were home, he found a lot of articles praising the wine and food of Verona, in addition to its Colessium. So if we ever can go back to Italy, he wants to visit Verona, Milan & Genoa.
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It is so easy to avoid crowds in Venezia, even when they are at their deepest. You only have to stay away from the yellow marked itineraries.
Walk through Dorsoduro - my favorite district in the city - to the marvellous Church of San Sebastiano, the Veronese house and sepulture, that he entirely decorated. It is near empty.
The canals in Cannaregio are charming and far from the crowds.
The Madonna dell’arte church is full of treasures, and chances are there won’t be more than 10 people besides you. (guided tours don’t bother).
Try Castello around the Arsenal. The most authentic area in Venice. Empty. Or la Giudecca, the Island with stunning views and nice canal side restaurants.
You won’t be bothered there. And if you want to see San Marco, come back in November...
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hummm with your children...
Nor do you remember Paris when Notre Dame was black, pissoirs abounded, or German cities where bombed buildings had not yet been replaced (the 50s).
Barcelona was fine with the tourists last summer; some parts of Venice are still nearly empty even at Easter (no one at Easter Sat. services) nor Santa M. della Salute, Easter Sunday AM. I disapprove of the mega cruise ships for myriad reasons.... and hotel rooms in Venice have long be scarce if one waits til the last minute.
But yes indeed some of us do think that the increased human population and its various activities have resulted in and will aggravate global warming.
Those of us who live in cities don't mind other people!! -- an empty city is forlorn.
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As we know by now, some people will do anything for money, so it is a shame that this writer praised in some detail a new place for hordes to overrun, even when asked please not to.
I am old, so I have been to a lot of places in my life, but when I am in a city or town I want to see and learn how other people live; to try to feel how their lives are. In Paris, my biggest pleasure was eating and walking through the parks and streets and talking to people. If a famous whatever popped up in front of me, I'd look at it.
I haven't been to Venice, but I know people who have, some who live there. Still I am horrified that cruise ships tower over that city. They are like cities themselves! It seems menacing and obscene. It feels to me that Venice was probably doing OK, not depending on tourism, before millions of people showed up, causing businesses to change to tawdry souvenir shops, not interested in the residents anymore, who I feel, should be the most important! Why don't they limit the size and number of those ships!
Next thing, I imagine, Disney will arrive. Look at all that useless land in St. Marks Square!
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Great !!! Because of your article, Treviso will now also be overrun with tourists !!!
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First the Bloomberg article on "too many tourists in Europe" and now this.
I've been lucky - I've traveled a great deal and now live overseas. I spent months in Nepal as a college student when 36,000 tourists were there that year. This year? Hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
I was in Venice a few years ago, and with a friend who wasn't feeling up to it. "I'll stay here and have a coffee while you wander," he said. It was a crowded, insanely packed summers day, and we had trained in, having been camping 30 miles away for a couple of weeks. I really, really struggled to find a quite corner to shoot photos. One photo (intentional) was just a mob of tourists walking aver a bridge - packed into each other like a crush of rats. I still show it to people and they gasp. One photo had no people in it. One.
I got back to my friend, and he was incensed - his coffee cost over 20 euros as they had a table fee to sit and listen to the music. The cafe was almost empty - no one was waiting for a table - and still that was it: 20 euros plus the coffee.
I will NEVER go to Venice, Dubrovnik or any other major destination when cruise ships are in season.
Or Key West (I lived there, too. Cruise ships ruin it). Even small town Dingle Ireland (the peninsula next to mine) is a horror when the cruise ships land - and they are small cruise ships!
More and more people want to travel. More and more people CAN travel. But maybe some, shouldn't.
Susan
Expat in Waterville, Ireland
3
If you like something keep it secret, if you hate it tell everyone about it.
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Ah the pains of being affluent.Must go to Paris, Barcelona, fast train to Paris,always breathless
A week in Courmayer, NW italy and the spectacle and beauty of the Apls on a misty morn. Riding my bike for a month in France, 30 nites in small towns, Ultra fantastic new friends.Late nite dinners in uncrowded cafes and in the homes of those new found freinds.Several of whom I invited to visit and stay with me in America,Five days biking along the Danube;spent lunch and dinner in the monastery and ublievable beauty of the library of MELK.Yeh and skip Paris couple of hours on train to LYON.
Prague has a bridge to rival, and may beat out, but who is counting.that one at the Golden Gate. I traveled
with my bike and bakpak totaled 35 pounds.Gained couple tons of memories. I convinced three buds to ditch their original grand tour plans and join me.We laffed and sweated continually, but to be greeted as we were, somewhere south of Le Mans, in a tiny village by the owner and chef, with a lunch of salmon(fresh in the ocean that morning) and rear garden lucious asparagus and his offer to us a chilled glass of his own wine and a cheek kiss for being American whose nation came twice to help France.Far, Far better a memory than a fleeting glance at M.L in the Louvre.Lest I forget, Please try to get to Amiens whose 12th century cathedral was destroyed in WW1 and was rebuilt with a cheque during their first French visit by Mr&Mrs J.D.R.
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Whew.... luckily you said Treviso and not Padua, also in the shadow if Venice and among my absolute favorite cities in the Veneto, Italy and the world- may it remain a little bit of a secret except for readers of this comment board. Padua is a beautiful jewel, with the preposterously lavish Cathedral of S. Anthony and Europe's oldest Botanical Gardens to boot, stunning medieval and baroque Venetian-palazzi adorned piazzas, where you can join the locals for 4 Euro Spritzes, romantic canali walks, cuisine that combines seafood and pasta ( just don't dare ask for parmiggiano:)), Italian fashion boutiques ranging from BoHo chic to very expensive-chic, and lovely pedestrian-only strolling areas for a scenic aperitivo and restaurants. Plus a vibrant progressiveness you don't see in Venice. Oh, there is also that amazing painting by Giotto, as if you needed any more reasons to visit Padua....but thank God you said Treviso. Treviso? Why not!
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I confess. I spilled off of a cruise ship into Venice. The video accompanying this article gives an idea of how it was. My traveling companions wanted nothing but out and, after a brief lunch, they headed back to the ship. They were getting out of the problem our presence helped to create. The crush in the Piazza San Marco was heartbreaking. For older people, cruises offer so much in the way of ease, but I certainly understand Venice’s efforts to stem the tourist tide. Treviso, now broadcasted here, careful what you wish for.
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@Martha I imagine Treviso wishes for nothing more than to be left alone in peace.
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I'd love to see some of these too-popular places experiment with the regulation of photography, starting with selfie sticks. If photography were licensed or prohibited altogether in certain spots (maybe start with Mt. Everest?), people who were visiting only for the sake of the social media post might choose different destinations. Making one's way through the crowds might be a manageable task if not for the additional burden of circumventing thousands of DIY photo shoots and travelers oblivious to everyone but themselves.
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@Melissa
Regulating photography would be like asking every smartphone owner to give up his/her cellphone addiction. I might be for that, if curing addiction were that easy. The sad truth is, everyone with a smartphone today considers him/herself a photographer. 99.9% of smartphone users in Venice are shooting poor quality jpegs that have little value beyond Instagram posts. Most people I know can never find their favorite photos on their cell phones when they want to share them with others. The selfie-generation is sad and oh so narcissistic. I wish I could see a way out, but there's no easy cure for addiction.
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@MistyBreeze sad but true, and older than cellphones. We've been avoiding that friend who wants to regale us with their travel photos/slide show since cameras came onto the commercial market.
2
I was in Venice during August a couple of years ago. It was crowded of course. I got to know the maitre di at a really good restaurant and asked when, in his opinion, was the best time to visit Venice considering the crowds. He said "February, just a few tourists and us (locals)". Maybe next time, if I go back, I'll consider going in February.
1
Just returned from 2 months in Italy, went 15 years ago, 10 years ago and now.
Incredible change and not for the better. Spent a half hour talking with an Italian tourist information center person in Florence. She said " about 6 or 7 years ago, the world discovered Florence".
She was not kidding. The main tourist cities are overrun with people. Florence, Rome, Venice, Siena, etc.. and this was the off season. The tours with literally up to 50 people in each, led by the "flag" are stacked up everywhere. Once they move they run over you. The Italians are not real pleased.
Ironically, Venice was the biggest bust of the trip, the crowds and the small walkways made passage horrible.
Yes, there are very important things to see in these cities but I would get in, see them and get out.
Italy is still a definite destination but a simple guideline is that if you have heard the name of the town, I would avoid it.
We hopped on the buses and trains and saw the countryside, visited small towns and had nice meals and conversation with some of the locals.
I will definitely go again but will avoid every major tourist city.
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This article, and the comments, show that the kinds of places people love to visit - and live - are not the kinds of places developers want to build.
We are Canadians that spend the winter on a warm southern country with beautiful beaches, restaurants and night life. There you have the choice of going to crowded or empty beach all withing a 5 minute drive of each other. Don't worry will not tell you where.
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When hemmed in and jostled by other tourists, all of us seeking a memorable getaway, I find myself humming Noel Coward's trenchant song, "Why Do The Wrong People Travel?" Coward foresaw the overtourism problem half a century ago.
"Why do the wrong people travel, travel, travel,
When the right people stay back home?
What explains this mass mania to leave Pennsylvania
And clack around like flocks of geese
Demanding dry martinis on the isles of Greece..."
8
If you love this planet and all the beautiful places on it then consider cutting back on air travel and tourism. Your personal enrichment and enjoyment is not more important than preserving our environment and climate. Or at least be grateful to those who don't burn up the planet while checking off their go-to lists.
4
I have lived in Italy for 41 years. Travellers should definitely not skip destinations such as Rome, Firenze and Venezia. Off season is the time to go. And research those off the tourist radar places and go there, too. Some people complain about the noise, the hussle bussle of Rome, just what did you expect? It is a big city. If you are able to rent a car with friends or family, your experiences will most likely be more authentic.
Last February for my birthday, my son and I visited a small town, 30 minutes from our home, with extensive Etruscan and Roman ruins. It was a sunny and warm day. After an hour of being the only ones around, the other tourists arrived, all four of them. After exhausting ourselves by walking all around, we went to have lunch in the centro storico in a wonderful trattoria.
No way will I let the name of the town and the trattoria be known!
There are thousands of off the beaten track towns in Italy. You just have to do some research.
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Great article because I love just experiencing being somewhere new and quietly soaking up the culture, which is hard to do in a crowded, stressful place.
Paris last year was so crowded with tourists pushing and shoving to do and see things before others could. It definitely ruined the specialness of the city.
Ugh now I hate myself for planning a trip to Barcelona and feel I’m somehow ruining the place by just being there.
2
The idea is that there is a god-given right to be a tourist, and also that columnists who make a living with descriptions of places still need to write for a living. How many trips does one need to make in one´s life to be satisfied? And is there not satisfaction with friends at home, or with a book? Where comes this idea that the world at large has to be trooped?
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I am in the Treviso area where I grew up and it’s such a joy to walk in Treviso. As long as I can travel I am back in my neck of the woods. You can go north of Treviso and visit Belluno and the Dolomites area for some fresh air and gorgeous mountains as well.
Thanks for writing about Treviso.
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You want to see Venice and not get crushed? Go in the early spring or the late fall. It's still crowded, but it's not like you're in the Long Island Rail Road concourse in Penn Station on a Friday in August. Think, people. No unbearable heat and no mosquitos either.
1
I do not understand why families with children choose to visit cities in the hot summer instead of a beach or lake where kids can hang out with each other and parents put their feet up. Part of the pleasure of visiting cities is the ability to wander in cooler temperatures while others go to work...the delightful feeling of skipping school.
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My grandfather came to the US from Treviso, so I know it intimately. It is no surprise that this beautiful city is getting noticed. I’m torn though - while I’m proud to see that it is get the recognition it deserves, I really don’t want the rest of the world to discover it. Look what that leads to!
The time spent in Treviso gives a true taste of life in a canal city, but without the selfie sticks. Go if you want to enjoy “la dolce vita” rather than the obligatory photos in front of the obligatory scenery.
2
When a city becomes a theme park, as Venice has done, the local residents learn to avoid the tourist sites (and traps). That serves to reinforce the theme park aspect (no locals except those who serve the tourists), so it's a catch-22 for the residents. I know because I live in Prague and have done so for years. I simply avoid the tourist areas. And when I travel myself, I try to make as small a footprint as possible. In the end, the biggest cause of the problem is there are simply too many people on the planet, and too many of them want short, easy travel experiences.
4
There used to be time and space in cities like Paris and Amsterdam and New York to have little private moments of wonder and joy as a tourist, which often included other people. But the hordes of tourists that swirl and roil through the city streets now don't seem to allow for that kind of introspection, at least not for me. I remember a time not so long ago (well, the early 70's) when I went to see the Mona Lisa, and there were literally only three or four people gathered beneath her in her little corner of the Louvre. I smiled up at her from a few feet away, and she smiled back.
3
It's not only world capitol heritage cities that are overrun with tourists.
I went to Charleston, SC for Christmas 2015. We were a group of 80 broken into 4 groups of 20 persons, the max that the city allows in a tour group. Tour groups take up so much space, are so noisy, and there are probably thousands of tourists on their narrow sidewalks on a daily basis.
3
And let’s not forget about Trieste.
2
Visit the Channel Islands. Guernsey, Sark, Herm - you'll be enchanted, welcomed and no crowds...even when the cruise ships dock. Great food, spectacular beaches and terrifyingly narrow streets. (Except on Herm and Sark...no cars allowed.)
2
Quite enjoyable article; the author's asides were intelligently amusing. And, by the way, great advice if you have limited options as to when you travel. The problem for many travelers may be that they really want to see the wonderful art and architecture offered by great cities. For those of us who have a counterbalancing interest in "culture" with a small "c," some of the best times are found in places you may have never heard of.
1
When I lived on the East Coast, it was great to go to Europe during April when airfares are cheap and the crowds are thinner. When I first began travelling to Europe, the spring vacations were better than summer ones for the weather and costs.
I look forward to retiring from teaching in a few years, so I can travel in fall or spring and avoid summer crowds. I will only have to deal with the hordes of Arizona tourists that descend San Diego, creating an experience much like visiting Venice in the summertime.
1
It doesn't matter whether you are in the French countryside sipping the finest wines overlooking the most serene untouched scenery or stuck in a human traffic jam of never-left-Montana American tourists in Adidas sneakers taking selfies with Mona Lisa (no offence to Monata, Americans, the Adidas company or selfie-sticks). I would choose the latter without hesitation if it meant making a shared memory with the person I love.
My best memories are from unremarkable places that were made remarkable by virtue of company.
5
Stayed in Venice in 1960 and 1968.
In 1960 actually was in Treviso but only to take an Alitalia DC-3
flight to Rome.
I don't want to back to the 2019 version of Venice but would
return to the 1960's version.
Same also, probably, for Rome and Florence.
1
We went to Venice and couldn't get near St. Mark's Square. We looked about, explored, and then took the train to Treviso, where my wife's family is from. Delightful. Very historic, scenic and so relaxing. We spent 4 days there. The canals are great, good food and friendly people.
2
Treviso looks lovely, but another option is to visit Venice in the off seasons. I was there in January when there were almost no tourists, and it was enchanting.
7
Venice is like Yosemite Valley -- it improves a lot once you get off the beaten path. Head for Cannaregio, Giudecca, even the Arsenale. Take the ferry to the outer islands (I particularly like Burano and Torcello, which are less crowded than Murano). And try to get there in winter to experience Venice's most sublime experience -- acqua alta.
5
Your Italian friends asked you to keep it secret for a reason. We have our own local places in our country and nothing ruins it more than hordes of tourists and their smartphones. People need a sense of neighbourhood.
Please. Just. Stop.
12
I travelled to Venice last June. We visited Rome and Florence. But Venice stole our hearts with its beauty and lack of cars.
Habitues of Italy told me to skip Venice, "Too crowded and too touristy." But i had always yearned to see Venice and after reading all of Donna Leon's novels I was determined to go.
We did a lot of research. and stayed in a small, hotel in a quiet neighbourhood near the Scuolo Grande We had a small kitchenette and walked to the supermarket to buy pasta, cheeses and fruit for dinner. There were tourists in our area but many native Venetians who lived there as well.
We saw the Ducal Palace but by getting the Cassanova Tour we skipped the lines and could enjoy the art.
St Marks Square was busy of course but after seeing the basilica we left. We also skipped Murano to go to another island where we had the best pastries and coffees and wandered around looking at the buildings and passing the beach.
In our area I spent a whole morning in the Scuolo looking at Tinoretto's masterpieces. There were a maximum of 20 people in the whole church/museum The workmen even pushed aside the scaffolding for me so I could see a painting that was being restored.
In the evenings we went to the café near our house where Italians and tourists were watching the World Cup on the large TV's and had spritzes. People walked by with their dogs.
With some imagination and research, one can find beauty even in crowded cities. But I would skip the Mona Lisa.
9
Thanks for ruining things for Treviso.
The reality is that Venice is one of the most magical places on earth but those ignoramus, fanny-pack tourists off the boats could not care less about the city, its history, its magic and the tragedy of a sinking city.
They only see the city via their iPhone and post on Facebook. They go to tell others where they have been versus go to experience the place and it’s people.
If we just showed these cities the respect and curiosity they deserved we would be different travelers; but I guess this is a global problem not just a Venice problem.
12
Instead of traveling to see buildings and museums, travel to meet the locals. It's a far better experience.
5
@Rod
Dear Mr. Rod,
I appreciate your comment and agree with you, but I doubt that it will be followed by many.
More than 10,000 Americans reside permanently in Vicenza. At 90%, their lives are spent between the military base and the village without any contact with the locals. Sometimes we "locals" have the impression that you consider us an underdeveloped country. It has always been so, in every sense. Do you remember the Cermis tragedy? I guess not. More than twenty years ago, a military plane of yours severed the cable car cable of a cable car, dropping a cabin with more than twenty people in it into the valley and killing them all. The process that followed showed that the cable car was not marked on the flight charts given to the pilot. And it wasn't because your pilots used your own charts instead of our (updated) ones. The reason? USAF didn't trust the accuracy of our cards. Think about it. Best regards from Padua (EU).
3
@Flavius
Hi Flavius. Actually, I remember the Cermis disaster quite well. I was horrified at how those people fell to their death. I also remember feeling horrified by the acquittal of the pilots and the overall lack of responsibility taken by the U.S. military. And of course the attempted cover-up of the entire incident.
One of the most difficult things about being an American is watching your government do things that don't represent the true sense of who the American people are on a whole. For all of this I apologize.
And yes, you are also correct with the American sense of travel. I personally travel quite extensively and I see the huge groups of Americans that attempt to take over the place they are visiting. They make no effort at all to submerge themselves in the culture that they apparently are there to see. For these reasons mentioned above and many others for that matter, Americans are not perceived well by people of other nations. And that is a shame.
All I was trying to say is that when you travel, and this is particularly difficult for a lot of Americans, is try to get to know the locals. Not just in Italy but any country.
2
It's true, tourists are flooding Europe's spots. But what about scholars who misrepresent stories?- Like.a couple of years ago, when at a much celebrated Irish mansion, we all stopped before a handsome John Singer Sargent & politely listened to an affable tour guide tell how the mansion's owner discovered & purchased this Italian painter's work just after WWI.
Who was I, a brazen American, to explain that though Sargemt was born in Florence to American expatriates & mostly studied in Europe, his roots belonged in New England & Boston where his several famous murals reside?
No matter. Americans & now Asians just crowd up cultural sites. And should be issued special visas when they pollute patrimonial palaces. Let's hand our heads in shame & stay home.
Venice is so magical I hate to think of any one missing it because of the fear of crowds. And it’s not that hard to miss them. Go to St. Mark’s square early in morning and avoid the Rialto Bridge-St. Mark’s nightmare. That leaves 80% of the island to wander around in. And go to Torcello. I’ve been twice now for five days at a time in a very cheap hotel. Favourite Venice moment: Eating breakfast on outside veranda and hearing this awful clatter in narrow street below. Looked over to see two guys hurrying along with a coffin. We were around the corner from hospital.
3
The cruise ship industry, AirBnB and the invention of the 'selfie' stick have ruined too many places already. Why in the world would Venice be interested in allowing the cruise boats? They don't seem to need them. Ban them and there goes that mess of humanity. Or start taxing the stuffings out of them if they care to go ashore for starters. Most would rather just stay on board and purchase their key chain there.
16
@cf I agree with banning the cruise ships...the are ruining the ecosystem and the fragile canals. It was disgusting to see the ships navigating the grand canal and towering over the buildings and creating a wake. (...I'm not even mentioning the hoards of people.)
9
For years now, Venice has been in decline, with the "original" Venetians leaving because they cannot afford it or cannot bear the increasing commercialization of their city.
The remaining ones need to stand together and get rid of the mayor and/ or city council who allow the gigantic cruise ships to enter their delicate, fragile canals and ruin them for everyone else...and who offload hundreds and hundreds of tourists every day. They must choose to retreat to a kinder, gentler way of life.
They CAN still do it.....check out who is being paid off by the cruise ship industry and get rid of those people! Then mandate certain permanent changes such as no cruise ships on the canals, a limit to tourism, and to the rampant commercialization of their city.
6
Tourism is a business. Let's not forget. That includes articles like this one.
Any American who want to experience the culture and find out what life is like in any foreign country can't do it in a two week vacation. Takes more than that.
3
I think eventually we will have to help reduce the crunch of too many tourists, and the physical damage that can occur to urban and rural historical and ecological sites by letting people ‘visit’ through very high quality VR type films. Plus the subscription for this will help generate funds to protect and run museums, UNESCO and historical and fragile places.
At this point I’m retired and can travel in the off season and I had the luck to live in Europe years ago before tourism went crazy. Let’s not lose site that it IS wonderful that people want to travel and experience other cultures and history.
P.s. Venice really needs to limit the number and size of cruise ships.
1
I just returned this evening from a trip to what was once a lovely town in upstate New York, Woodstock.
Today was a Monday, with gray skies and threatening showers; the town was still overrun with tourists, traffic a nightmare.
The business interests, seeing only dollars, have destroyed another beautiful small town.
5
Treviso swarming with Brooklynites. Nice.
12
I think that this is just more evidence that population has reached a peak of destructiveness. There are now too many people and so many want the same travel opportunities, adventure opportunities, educational opportunities and real estate opportunities. Europe is still a collection of democracies ( for now ) and it seems unlikely that they will close borders to tourists. Lots more people have the money and the time to travel and are well educated enough to know where the historically significant places are. This is all pretty new in the world. We don't know how to "control " it. In the past only " certain" kinds of people were privileged to go to these places. I do find the spectacle of those who have already been there telling the rest of us to stay off jets for the sake of the planet to be rich. I'm beginning to be convinced that our planet may implode before we have to figure out these specifics about who can go to Venice or Dubrovnik, or the Galapagos, or the Amazon or Petra or Everest. It will solve itself the hard way.
5
There are many people in Venice, but Accademia is calmer than the Louvre and most churches are more or less empty, even the wonderful Chiesa di Santo Stefano and San Moisè. Most people are inclined to go to Piazza San Marco, see the Palazzo Ducale, have a coffee at Caffè Florian and, maybe, a drink at Harry's bar, now considered overrated on Tripadvisor, and are basically done. So just avoid San Marco and surroundings.
6
It's like when you first got into Bob Marley, and then somebody introduced you to the rest of reggae. Come to Italy, by all means, but forego checking the boxes. See Mantova, Matera, Pistoia, Urbino, Sondrio and a host of other places that have what you're looking for: great art, architecture, history, food and wine and a dedication to living well, which, as we all know, is the best revenge.
7
Back in 1987, hubby and I were visiting Pordenone and decided to make a day trip to Venice. It was early July yet we didn't experience humidity, mosquitos, or massive crowds. We arrived just as the city was waking up, and the rising sun shimmered on the yet undisturbed water. It was glorious. We trekked to the tourist sites and then hit the neighborhoods where we found the best restaurants and cafes frequented only by the locals. This is the memory I cherish.
3
Simple fix. DO NOT travel at peak tourist times. November thru winter is great for Venice, except Xmas holidays and Carnival. Pretty much everywhere else in Europe. Wear a sweater.
7
Bravo Jason, you hit it on the nail. It happens :)
Yes, tourism should be limited. And not just in europe. Ecver tried to go to Colonial Williamsburg in summer? Not worth the time nor money. New York to visit the museums? January is the month to go and it is still a predatory hostile city. London and Paris, forget summer. Go in winter and there will still be tourists. Want to see the sites? Go to YouTube, the videos are excellent. I go to Paris almost every September/October. The weather is nice and almost everything is open. And you will not have the hoards of people. You actually will be able to see a tremendous amount of sites. And it will be enjoyable. And as for Rome, it is the only city I will never visit again. Well, the same for Venice. Try across the Adriatic for a nice time.
3
There are lots of options to avoid the crush of tourists.
Here is one:
Instead of the Oktoberfest in Munich, try the Cannstatter Volksfest in Stuttgart. They actually overlap each other, so you could go to both and the cities are an easy trip from each other by car or train.
Here is an English language page for the festival.
https://www.cannstatter-volksfest.de/en/landing-page/
You will have a great time.
2
Ah, yes, Treviso IS gorgeous, but it's still not Venice. Cities like Paris, London (what is lit of old London at least), Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon, Dubrovnik and many others are unique windows into the past and future (in some instances); they are the fingerprint of mankind at its highest level of social creativity.
I don't mean to detract from Treviso, but it's not the same. By all means visit the "tourist havens" at least once, while they still exist, THEN go to Treviso, the Amalfi Coast, Eze, Haute Cagne sur Mer, Levernoir and relax; drink in the gorgeousness at leisure and smell the flowers instead of the tourists. THAT is what life is all about!
7
I visited an amazing region not far from Venise last year. I'm not telling where.
Quiet. Gorgeous. Interesting. Welcoming.
I. Am. Not. Telling. Where.
6
What is the point of this?
"The 15th-century Monte di Pietà of Treviso is roughly above the vaulted ceiling of the 15th-century Santa Lucia church. It was created to help indebted Christians — with the fringe benefit of damaging the city’s Jewish loaners — and its director’s room, shaped like a chapel, is frescoed in great moments of Christian charity. "
Fringe benefit? As in "as a perk, the Jews were damaged"? It just reads so terribly wrong.
21
Yet another case of too many people, not enough planet.
9
As Elaine Stritch sang in Noel Coward’s”Sail Away” “ why oh why do the wrong people travel when the right people stay at home and eat hot donuts?” It’s worth listening to.
I’m sitting in an undisclosed location in Mexico and I’m the only tourist.
2
@Richard Watch out for the cartels.
2
I never can get over the fact that when these travel writers discover relatively unspoiled destinations like Treviso, they are lighting the fuse on a potential tourist explosion. Instead, do something for humanity and advise people to stay home and darn their sock. Tank the travel industry, let the planet recover. It's the ethical thing to do.
4
Of course that's a first thought, but I'm not so sure. The hoards who travel in hoards are unlikely to be lured to a place called Treviso. No bragging rights or bucket list item crossed off. Because really, most mass tourism participants are not traveling to finally see that Bellini.
5
I am an Italian citizen, descendant of Venetians, some of whom governed Venice. The Ponte di Rialto is my family's bridge; we built it and my family's seal is on it. And I unequivocally say that the flood of tourism must stop. Ban the cruise ships entirely and limit daily tourists, especially Italian foreigners. Everyone does not have a right to overcrowd and destroy what my ancestors built. Everyone does not have a right to see everything. Nothing will be worth seeing or visiting anymore if we do it that way. And for those with children, they'll probably learn more from staying home and reading about Venice than they will from yet another photo-op for their parents' holiday cards. Seeing the pretty parts is not the same as understanding. Italy was not made to be your vacation.
And don't forget, as another recent NYT article pointed out, all these travelers are helping to warm the planet ten times faster. World travel was never meant to be like this.
33
@Claire Be comforted - Venice is built on a swamp and is sinking.
2
@Claire
So spoke the descendant of a Venetian patrician family, whose family tried to negotiate with Napoleon the surrender of the city to have a place of prestige in the new administration ("If we want everything to stay as it is, everything must change" - says the noble Tancredi in Il Gattopardo di Tomasi di Lampedusa) while the peble of the mainland died in the name of Venice in the fight against the French troops commanded by that Italian thief (ask the Mantuans for confirmation). This is a story written in blood, my dear lady. So don't boast of the prestige of your family, because it was lost then.
3
@Flavius
It has nothing to do with prestige, just like your comment has nothing to do with tourism. The point is people who want to see Venice just because it's pretty and prestigious as a place are destroying places that actually have much more significant value to people who live there or have roots there or are actual scholars and artists.
1
There are plenty of people who should stay home. I met a Alabamian that didn’t understand why he wasn’t allowed into Vatican City. I asked him how he was dressed. He was wearing a tee shirt with a rude logo, shorts and sandals with socks. I’m glad that some places still have standards, Americans are slobs.
30
Not just Americans. Mass tourism unfortunately doesn't include any education on how to dress and behave when one is a guest.
9
I started traveling to Europe 50 years ago. Back then the Louvre couldn't be mistaken for a New York City subway train at rush hour. The Rijksmuseum was half empty, There weren't any chainlink fences around Stonehenge. The churches on Italy's
Adriatic coast were empty. I could go on, but why bother? I made my last trip to Europe ten years ago. No more packed airports, no more surly TSA and CBP agents, no more "selfie" mobs.
10
Same for me. But I do still travel to Europe. I go between November- March, stay in less touristy areas and smaller towns and villages. Not the same as 20 years ago but still valuable for me
1
If one does their homework before traveling, it is pretty easy to miss a lot (not all) of the tourist crowds. Go early or late to the big sites. Get tickets in advance: many allow you to skip most of the lines. Pick alternate sites to visit—ex. Ostia Antica instead of Pompeii or the islands in the lagoon around Venice. Go off season or during the so-called “shoulder months.” You won’t miss all the hassle, but you can avoid a lot and still see amazing things.
5
There are only a few places where access can be limited, and must be, if those places are to survive relatively intact into the future without being defiled. There may not be many endangered places now, but as the world's population continues to increase, increasing numbers of people have the means to travel, and transport and travel agencies heedlessly oversell, the numbers of such places will only increase.
In Italy, Venice and the Cinque Terre are already endangered. Elsewhere, California's Yosemite Valley and Nepal's Mt. Everest are, too. It's rare but fortunate that places like those are so situated that access can effectively and rigorously be limited, as it should be.
Where access can be controlled, it must be. It's a matter of survival for those places and for the patrimony of the lands to which they belong.
6
As a blinds importer, I visit this great city at least once a year. While there, I spend my mornings scouring the back alleys for the most talented of the blinds artisans, and negotiating for their wares. Afternoons and evenings were my leisure time, and I would spend them enjoying all the treasures this great city had to offer. Wine, food, architecture. Beauty is everywhere. Unfortunately, so are the crowds. Year after year, it became more difficult to appreciate the beauty of Venice. Each new year brought the realization that leisure itself had become a priceless commodity. I would still have the time and money to enjoy the best of the city, but it was impossible anymore to do so at my leisure. The ever increasing crowds were now finding their way into the once "undiscovered" corners I had once treasured. Respites from the maddening throngs became fewer and far between. As each year passed, the eager anticipation of my next visit would eventually be replaced by dread. I fear it's time to say goodbye for the last time. Blinds have become passe anyway.
7
I would have no problem with Venice and other historic, beautiful places (national parks, sites with environmental significance) instituting lottery systems to limit their visitors. I think it should be doable to create a fair system (with perhaps special programs to favor, for example, disadvantaged children during some blocks of time). Global population and disposable wealth is rising and increasing strain on these places seems inevitable. The restriction on access seems to me an acceptable trade-off to maintain and preserve their historic and aesthetic quality.
5
It all depends on when and how you visit. When we were lucky enough to be stationed in Europe, we generally did our city vacations during the fall and winter, since there were plenty of indoor sites when the weather turns foul.
Our last tour in Europe, my daughter was attending a local German school, so we were on the same schedule as the rest of Europe. We ran into more crowds, but the payoff is still worth it.
Honestly, I am more concerned for the natural wonders that are being loved to death than for cities.
3
Thanks, Jason, for your appreciation of this lovely, small Italian city. The only downside is knowing that the municipality, as I understand it, is in the hands of the frightful, far-right-wing League. I am told, however, that within Treviso there is pushback from the Benneton faction.
You are so right that food is good in Treviso. Way better, on the average, than in most Venetian eating spots. There, getting a decently cooked plate of pasta to come out of the kitchen, where many of the staff are non-Italian, has become harder and harder.
1
I just yesterday returned from my first trip to Europe, at age 61 where I saw the cultural treasures I'd only read about: the Louvre, Notre Dame (courage!), Musee Orsay, the Palace of the Popes, the Uffizi, the Dome, the Vatican Museum, etc. So glad I did it.
The crowds in the major museums were quite daunting. It was like a river that dragged one along. By standing on the side of a room, I would allow a flow (mainly tour guide led groups) to surge past me, and stare at a part of the room until it subsided, then move back out a little a just look. The experience of taking in is still possible, but one must tune out the hordes.
One recommendation I make to major museums: impose one day a week of no cell phones, no pictures, no cretins taking their selfies grinning idiotically in front of Venus. The art lovers will thank you.
13
But the huge issue you overlook are the citizens of those cities who have to navigate and deal with those "rivers" every single day to just live their lives. My NYC neighborhood has become a tourist destination in the last 5 years or so. It's challenging now. In another 5? Unbearable.
1
I feel blessed with permanent vivid memories of being in Venice and Paris in 1968 in my mid-teens. Venice had just enough tourists everywhere including San Marco with the delight of “getting lost” , by myself, in the back streets off San Marco before finding my way back to our Grand Canal hotel. Then on to Paris where I was able to stand right in front of the Mona Lisa (no glass on the painting) as long as I wanted to as I wished to experience the adage then of “the longer you stare at the Mona Lisa, she will smile back at you” and “she did!” This is just simply to state the obvious of how far society, as a whole, has declined since then.
6
There is no use in discussing overtourism without discussing the tech industry's "Uber-ization" of the industry. We will soon find that Airbnb Experiences and Tripadvisor Experiences has done to tourism what Uber does to flooding the streets with taxi drivers who barely eek by.
These mega arbiters invest millions and millions of dollars into advertising tourism and pushing more and more. Meanwhile, they take 20% to 25% off the gross pay of the provider, forcing the guides to do more and accept more people in order to come out at the same place. Yet these companies are so aggressive in their ambition to conquer the market, they leave you no option but to work with them.
So Tripadvisor experiences will make it nearly impossible for you to find tours that are listed by providers who don't sell through their platform. Airbnb makes you commit to an exclusivity clause and that you'll run a tour even if just one person signs up. So we the operators work extra hard, destinations are extra despoiled, and 25% of the huge sums of money made goes not to the local population, but to the big tech monopolies. At this rate, it's going to only get so much worse.
A bunch of bandits making out big time with no regard for the many good things they spoil. Why aren't we discussing this?
7
Good evening, I'm from Veneto, the region of Italy, whose capital is Venice. After reading the article, the first thing that comes to mind is that the Veneto is little known abroad, but really little. You tourists don't know at all the territory around Venice. It is our fault, that we do little or nothing to make ourselves known. I'll try to make it up to you. The article tells you about Treviso, but there is much more in Veneto. How many of you know that it is possible in summer to ski in the Dolomites in the morning, take a swim in the Adriatic Sea in the afternoon and go to the Arena of Verona in the evening to listen and see the Opera or just listen Adele? How many of you know that the Veneto plain is considered by some historians as one of the two great war arenas in Europe? Have those of you who served in the Army at Fort Garrison/Casema Ederle in Vicenza ever wondered why they were there and not elsewhere? How many of you know that the Asiago Plateau is not only the scene of bloody battles during the First World War - here died and is buried the brother of Vera Brittain, here was wounded Ernest Hemingway - is it unique from a naturalistic point of view? One last thing. Health care in Veneto is at the highest level in .... Europe .... and it is public. This means that if you break a leg skiing you will spend a few dollars having first class assistance. I hope I have aroused your curiosity.
Best regards from Padua (EU).
51
So, some among you congratulate yourselves for finding alternatives to overrun travel sites. Just know that while you may have solved a problem for yourselves, you have done little for the endangered sites. In other words, not only have you done little to ameliorate problems caused by too much travel to endangered sites, you have contributed to the metastasis of the problem to other sites.
I don't know what the answer to the travel tsunami is (if there even is one), but it can't be putting more feet where the burden might be still be manageable.
2
Treviso seems like a nice place to enjoy an Aperol Spritz. Could anyone suggest a bar or cafe?
Just wander around. It's a beautiful, walkable city. Youll find many places to try
Travel- the desire to experience difference- enriches a society. But it is a privilege, not a right. Tourists must accept responsibility for the impact they have- It has how we travel, how tourism is managed, that needs an adjustment.
There are numerous destinations which limit the number of visitors to ensure the environment is not destroyed by over-tourism. Bhutan, gorillas in Rwanda, Milford Sound trek, St Pauls Tomb all limit the number of humans to conserve. Urban destinations will, eventually, have to take similar steps, much to the chagrin of those who profit from over tourism.
2
Of course, now the problem is that Treviso, thanks to this article, will soon become overcrowded with tourists too.
3
If you are not interested in seeing for yourself some of the great masterpieces of art and architecture in the world, then by all means, skip Venice -- please!
9
Of course now you've done in Treviso as well. Having just been in Venus I have to say: if you get up at 6:30 AM you have the whole place to yourself for two hours, empty and quiet and breathtaking, as you do after 10:30 PM. Nap in the middle of the day and you're all set, because it's still by far the most beautiful place in the human-made world.
6
There is always another option, in these days of mass tourism. I recently spent a lovely, unhurried weekend in Utrecht, which rivals Amsterdam for charm. Very few other tourists. Two years ago, on a long weekend in Olomouc--basically a smaller version of Prague, in the Moravian part of the Czech Republic--I seemed to literally be the only tourist. The less traveled path in easily found, it just takes a little imagination and a little research
12
All these posts about someone "exposing" their "secret" locations is ridiculous: there are no secret, unexplored places left. The Cinque Terra was popular long before Rick Steves profiled the area on his show.
In the world of tourism, everyone is a "Johnny come lately.."
14
Travel used to be as much about the journey as the destination. Having been lucky enough to travel to many parts of the world I have experienced many things. From the lows of a UN refugee camp in northern Ethiopia (where you wouldn't send your worst enemy but people are glad to be there because it is better than the hell they came from) to the absolute joy of riding my bike in the splendour of the French Alps. Engaging as best you can with the local people has always enhanced my experiences. I will never forget sitting in a cafe in Buenos Aires when the ornate front doors both opened and a bus load of tourists flooded in - all cameras and cellphones. They stood at the entrance took pictures of the magnificent interior and left. I could only think it was their loss. They missed out on some of the best coffee and pastries delivered with old school charm and service. Now that was a memory no photograph will ever bring back. If you are lucky enough to be able to travel then live the experience.
142
For the tourist hordes, Constantine Cavafy's words in his poem "Ithaka," about the journey's being worth more than the destination, is not applicable.
Enormous cruise ships transport and deposit them at coastal cities where they disembark, race to tourist hot spots, eat, and leave food wrappers behind them. They get back on board, the cruise ship belches out steam, and away they go, sloshing the waters and then discharging effluvia.
As they say, rinse and repeat. Everywhere.
Bar Harbor, too.
10
In general, I heard this from people, "only stay in Venice 2-3 days, and the same with Amsterdam." On instinct, I did the opposite and spent 8-9 days in both places and felt I did not see or experience enough of each place. I subsequently went back to each again and stayed for another long stay. The second time I visited other places, Treviso, Chioggia, Delft, The Hague etc.
In Venice, I always stay in the Dursoduro neighborhood, away from the touristy crowds, and try to go out of season.
I feel opposed to an entry fee because Venice is expensive as is.
An extra fee will keep poorer people from visiting, which is unfair and not what cities are about.
Perhaps the city of Venice should find some way of limiting the cruise ships, as they wreak all kinds of environmental havoc: day trippers and contribute to ever-sinking city. Also Venice could learn something from Amsterdam, where people are heavily fined/ticketed for behaving badly in the city. This sends a clear message to tourists: you WILL respect our beautiful city and it's inhabitants while you visit. Tourism is a Catch-22....how to balance tourism and commerce with the greater good of environmental, cultural and life-style preservation for Venetians?
13
@Philly girl - :)) Poorer people do not vacation in Europe. If they are lucky, the brakes on the beater wagon will hold and they can go to grandma's and call it a vacation.
7
Or the poorer folks pay by credit card for the next three years at twenty-percent interest, the way they do when they take their three kids to Disney World.
2
@B.
Using the word "poorer" was a bad choice of language. To clarify, many people who live in Europe or Italy might not be able to afford a fee to go to Venice. I do not believe instituting a fee to enter a city is equitable or fair, as cities are for everyone.
I stayed for free both times in Venice in a friend of a friends apartment, who has lived there for 35 years...I consider myself lucky b/c otherwise, I would not have been able to visit.
4
One’s first visit to Venice might well be made during the winter. It felt empty of people (after arriving by train from an ecstatic Rome) and as though one had traveled back in time. Gloomy sky, cold dampened winds, getting lost at dusk along small canals heading nowhere with all the time in the world to ponder life while absorbing this haunted marvel of western civilization. That was part of my Grand Tour following college in 1977. I imagine during several later visits it has honestly grown more crowded and normalized, but it is still Venice, something of a state of mind. But it was already crowded along the Rialto centuries ago. There are films that capture that sense of place such as Katherine Hepburn in Summertime and Visconti’s Death in Venice. Both glorious and tremendously atmospheric. On my most recent visit, while having breakfast on a beautiful summer day sitting on the penthouse veranda of a lovely hotel across from the Giudecca, I had the misfortune of watching a large garish cruise ship trudge through the Canal. Travelers of all financial means can certainly visit Venice without the aid of a cruise ship. In my opinion, they represent a form of aesthetic disrespect and should be banned from entering the Lagoon.
10
12 years ago my mother treated me to a trip to Italy, which included a few days in Venice. We went in March and the experience was nothing short of transformative. I fell in love with Venice and its ruinous beauty. I've traveled quite a lot since then and Venice to me is the most beautiful place I've ever visited.
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@mary roberts
Hi Mary,
Venice is insanely beautiful.
Want more?
Istanbul. Amazing!
Up there with the most beautiful cities in the world. Oh, and the Venetian Doge Enrico Dandolo is entombed in Hagia Sophia.
Bonus: Istanbul is no theme park.
Well, there goes Treviso.
Maybe the Times and other media outlets should just declare a moratorium on selling travel destinations.
9
Well Treviso used to be quiet. The irony.
5
When traveling, I've discovered that you simply have to seek out the places that are less frequented. It depresses me to say that, but when I was in Rome recently, I decided to not go to the Vatican Museums. As someone who's really interested in art history, you could argue that's an insane choice on my part (and perhaps it is). Yet, in making that choice, I ended up going to a lesser known art museum that houses an incredible collection and was practically deserted. I didn't regret not having to jostle with the crowds while trying to experience the Sistine Chapel.
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@Christopher Moore
I've learned that you have to stray off the beaten path. I was in Rome at the end of April, the crowds were terrible. Also, the Vatican was super crowded-I thought the big crowd took away from my experience.
2
I was just in Rome a few weeks ago. it is exactly as you say. We were swept through the Vatican Museums by a river of people.The Palazzo and art musem we visited on another day was a much better experience.
5
@Christopher Moore True that - I suffered the cattle run of the Vatican Museum tour a couple of years ago - but I had to see a couple of things, and wouldn't have forgiven yself if I didn't. And I saw them. At the Sistine Chapel, there were people passing out because of either crowds or awe (I would like to think awe, as there were plenty of non-Roman Italians in the crowd, as well as South Americans because of the current Pope), but after, we faded into the general Italian population, and saw a much better Rome. I'm saying that the I wished the crowds didn't exist for my own experience in some spots, but most of my wanna-sees were pretty much off the beaten track, fortunately. These days, you have to do both.
7
The funny thing is the despite how crowded Venice has become, it is still easy to get away from the crowds, since the day-trippers all go to the same places (the Rialto, St. Marks, the Doge's Palace, etc.).
We go to Venice for the Biennale every two years, and the neighborhood we stay in is no more crowded that it was 25 years ago. They are plenty of parts of Venice that the tourists don't go anywhere near.
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@Matt Indeed - we were in Venice for the first time last year, and took the vaporetto one way to St. Marks, saw the obligatory square and the cathedral, and the Galleria dell'Accademia (which was lovely), then spent the rest of the day happily walking through the many little neighbourhoods, up and around various little bridges. I found it absolutely charming.
12
Charming for you perhaps, less so for the locals. The more tourists that 'stray' into my neighbourhood (I live in a major tourist destination in the EU), the more that said locals decide that it would be more lucrative to rent out their flats to Airbnb. Next you have hordes of partyers throwing up on the doorstep, zipping up and down the sidewalk on scooters and freeshare bikes (endangering the elderly). Shops selling basic commodities loose their leases because the landlords want to rent to high-end cafes or something for the tourists, who, by the way, loiter on the sidewalks and gawk at us residents as part of the 'local color', whereas we just want to live in a normal neighbourhood and go about our lives undisturbed. As I said, charming for you, very disruptive for us.
18
@Matt Hi Matt, I agree with your experience.
I was lucky. I travelled a lot as a child with my parents and as a college student and young person. Fed the pigeons as a six-year-old in St. Mark's Square. Spent a whole summer in Paris when I was in college. Snorkelled on the Great Barrier Reef when I was in my mid-20s. All last century. Such lovely memories of lovely times and places.
Now that I'm mature and middle-aged, and understand the Climate Crisis bearing down on us, I've decided there is no place really I need to see in this world. Not with Venice sinking and the Barrier Reef being bleached. I've seen enough to know that I don't need to see any more. My travels have been enough. Please join me in staying home.
11
And what of the younger people who were not as fortunate as you growing up and also long to have those experiences? It’s not fair to tell people to stay home once you’ve had your fun.
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@Greenie Cold comfort for a younger generation, no? "I got to do all this, and in so doing put a whole bunch of CO2 into the air ... but now that I've seen everything I wanted to see, I'm staying home -- and you all should do the same. Sorry you don't get to do what I did, even though it's mostly my generation's fault that our environment is now in a crisis state. Oh well -- do as I say, not as I did!"
I (Gen Xer) also have been thinking about curtailing travel -- but I'm sorry, when you express it like this I don't think it's going to win a lot of converts. When people gripe about baby boomer self-absorption, it's EXACTLY this kind of commentary they are thinking of.
6
@gmg22 I'm GenX too. Definitely not a boomer. My last overseas trip was in 2004 to Ireland, a land I have loved since I was a child. In 2006, I saw Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth and realized how much harm we have done to this beautiful world. I still love Ireland. I just do it through books and film and even, because of the Internet, through watching Irish TV.
2
I’m going to see the Venice for my 5th trip to see a big art show that takes about 2 days to see the main locations, and a few days and days to see all the satellite locations sprinkled all across the city. I’ve stayed in Padova for this show in the past, because of its proximity and character. But one could also stay in Verona.
But the only Venice is Venice and you didn’t go all that way to Treviso and skip the city yourselves.
2
Also try Padua.
3
The human population of earth has more than doubled since 1965. European vacations in the sixties were expensive and fabulous. We are approaching 8 billion in number now but our treasured historical cities remain the size they were 500 years ago.
In addition we are told that riding in a jet is about the worst thing we can do to our already failing environment. A friend who was in Venice on a cruise a couple of weeks ago called the on board experience an elaborate prison but did enjoy the city - briefly.
Perhaps virtual headsets will soon replace actually going there.
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@Nadia Air travel currently accounts for a whopping TWO PERCENT of global CO2 emissions. We don't need to revert to pre-industrial approaches to tourism (ie, when only a tiny elite gets to ever see anything beyond their home towns) in order to protect the environment. Continued work to lower industrial emissions and make electricity and ground transportation cleaner can easily outweigh future increases in aviation emissions. And, yes, we can keep working to make jets more fuel-efficient.
That said, I have to agree that cruise ships are fairly appalling in terms of emissions, waste generation, and most of all the human impact they have on the compact communities they visit. Consider just flying to Italy and getting around by train, folks. If you want a boat ride, hop on a ferry.
9
Ah yes, I remember the good old days when only the right people could travel. Now half of the time liberals tell us that everyone should see the world and the other half of the time they say it causes too much global warming.
11
To me it is morally wrong to travel for pleasure when the act of traveling (especially flying) causes so much damage. We have a climate crisis unfolding around us - and reducing the damage each of us causes to our environment has to be part of the solution. Fully one half of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere was dumped since 1980. This is not sustainable - carbon dioxide in our atmosphere is higher than it has been in over 3 million years, the consequences of not changing our ways are truly horrifying, and these consequences will become apparent within the lifetimes of today's teenagers.
It's not just that hordes of tourists are ruining Venice and other places (even Mount Everest for god's sake!). It's the greenhouse gas emissions that directly result from travel to those places. One cross country flight generates more greenhouse gas emissions per passenger than the average person in Bangladesh generates in a year. And those greenhouse gases will remain in our atmosphere for centuries.
7
@Paul Global industrial emissions DWARF emissions from aviation, many times over. Pay as much penance as you like by never flying anywhere again, but it won't make anywhere near as much difference as pushing for real change on the ground at home -- getting your utility to adopt zero-emission sources of power, getting your local government to convert public transit to electric, voting with your pocketbook so that dirty industries are forced to become cleaner.
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@gmg22 I'm not "paying penance". I don't wear a hair shirt or walk around whipping myself. I'm doing the right thing.
So many people say the right words about mitigating / preventing climate change while doing little in their personal lives to reduce their own contribution to it. Talk is cheap. Given the predicament we're in, talk is not enough.
The climate crisis is really about a century long orgy of consumption. The solution needs to include a reduction in consumption. Nobody's perfect, but doing nothing in our personal lives is not an option that will work.
And yes, I testified in favor of a bill that was adopted in my city to force electric utilities to adopt zero emission sources of power. In 2018 I used a week of vacation to canvas for candidates who embrace tougher actions in relation to global warming. I donated to many other political campaigns in 2018. I volunteer for a transportation committee in my city to push policies that encourage clean transportation modes and discourage filthy transportation. I blanket my neighborhood with information sheets about climate change.
The IPCC said that, to minimize the horrible consequences of climate change, the world needs an effort of a magnitude that has never been seen in the history of mankind. Do you really think jetting around the world as if nothing is going on is a prudent way to engage in such an effort?
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@Paul I think that we overworked Western liberal professionals who care about climate change are, of late, so busy flagellating ourselves for daring to take time off, have fun and yes, occasionally travel ... that we're diverting the conversation away from the power sector and other industry, which is of course what they want. A study emerged yesterday indicating that methane emissions from US industry are 100 TIMES HIGHER than previously reported/estimated levels. But sure, let's beat each other up for getting on an airplane once or twice a year. That'll make all the difference!
By all means, fly less. Buy offsets when you do fly. But don't act like we can fix the problem simply by never leaving our home towns again, sitting in our backyards muttering "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa" to ourselves while the real culprits are let off the hook.
2
I travel to Italy several times per year. I do some touristy things there but only off-season. But, the very best thing I do is go to "my" secluded beach south of Rome, north of Naples. My favorite beach in the world (and I've been all over.)The small towns there are devoid of english language speakers until at least August. Life is deliciously slow. The local wood-oven pizza, fresh-off-the-boat fish, creamy buffalo mozarella & crisp local wines all contribute to an off-the-beaten-path heaven.
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Well thanks. Couple of years ago we found a great little out of the way restaurant in Florence. Apparently someone from the NYT found it too and suddenly here was an article... "Great Little Restaurant" implied, no one knew about. Next time we went, there were Ruffino displays, three of them, all over the relatively small restaurant. Ownership had changed and the menu was Olive Garden, but there no tables available.
I don't know what to do about that, you have a job. But I'll stay away from Treviso and Venice.
1
If you want a nice experience in Venice, stay overnight there. The city is practically empty at night and in the early hours of the morning.
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@Shane -
Don't stay "overnight". Stay several days.
To avoid the crowds, just don't go near the Piazza San Marco and the Riva degli Schiavoni.
1
There is no other place in the world like Venice and while it is crowded and crumbling with insane prices and so-so food in the tourist areas, those areas only account for a small portion of the city which are trampled to death daily. Go off the beaten track and explore the outer regions of the city, skip Murano where you'll be pounced on by the "pushers" for the major and overpriced glass studios and explore the wonderfully quirky Burano with its madcap color scheme, even more madcap architecture and delightfully zany people who call it home. One evening, my husband wanted to splurge for a night time gondola ride on the Grand Canal and I suggested a far more cost effective solution, take the Vaporetto from Ferrovia down the canal and sit on the open back deck and enjoy the lovely view (for about 100 Euros less). There are some alternatives to Venice which are lovely and worth seeing but in the end, you'll regret not going to La Serenisima as nothing in the world will ever equal her magnificence...just don't do what everyone else does and get inventive!
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Go to Venice off season, when its empty and beautiful. And stay on the Lido, which is a gem.
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@bobw
Problem is, there is rarely an off season for places like
Venice, Barcelona, or Paris.
Go to beautiful Normandy and visit the D-Day beaches. Two weeks ago (before the anniversary) they were empty. And much more moving than any museum. You will feel proud to be an American.
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@Elizabeth
"You will feel proud to be an American". Sorry but no.
Going to any site, regardless of how "our" side prevailed, won't make me proud to be an American. It's ridiculous
to have pride in something, being born in this country,
that came down to chance. This country's patriotism is so odd bordering on nationalism. I'll reserve my pride for something I had a hand in doing.
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Vicenza is even better, thanks to Palladio's architecture. 45 minutes by train from Venice. High-speed trains in Italy (Frecce and Italo) are pretty good, by the way.
As to Venice, go weekdays outside of the obvious tourist periods (major holidays, carnival, etc). And avoid San Marco and Rialto. Cross the Canal and walk to Punta della Dogana, for instance. Still plenty of beautiful, quiet corners. Winter is also very atmospheric.
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My wife and I cruise a lot these days but I absolutely agree; places like Venice are being overrun. We visited Florence recently (from a cruise) and it was impossible to actually see anything worthwhile due to the crowds. Ditto the Vatican Museum which was so crowded you simply had to shuffle along with the crowd and could not really see anything, let alone appreciate its beauty or importance. Ditto the Hermitage. What is the point?
Reality needs to be faced. Like it or not, access to these places needs to be be rationed, so that some can visit and get something out of it, rather than having an unlimited number try and nobody get anything worthwhile. There is no choice. Determine the maximum number that can visit, and enforce it with a serious head tax. Couple that with a real program to encourage visits to all those "secondary" places where real charm can still be found, or off-season visits to the high points. We've reached the point where there just isn't any other option.
It's estimated there are some 3000 alleys in Venice extending for a total of about 90 miles.
There are many out-of-the-way places, not crowded except for locals, such as Campo San Giacomo -- I would guess 99% of the tourist to Venice have never seen it.
Most tourists who visit Venice are here for just a few hours and completely miss out on the authentic experience because they are in a rush to get back to their tour bus or ship. All they see on a brief day-trip is the Piazza San Marco, (which is a beautiful spot), they might go to a glass factory, maybe a quick gondola ride, and then they rush off to the next city on their hurried itinerary. They supposedly "saw" Venice, but missed the heart and soul of the town.
This is the paradox of mass tourism – more people are traveling to more crowded places, but are in such a hurry they don’t find what they came looking for. This problem is more apparent in Venice than anywhere else. Rush, rush, rush. See some alternative back lanes here https://bit.ly/2R1NyzS
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@TourVideos
I’m not going in those alleys.
I’m afraid if those vicious cats.
I slowly got hooked on opera after moving to Italy in 1978. It's difficult to arrange the viewing of several operas in a typical short visit to northern Italy, and so we now adopted the "hub-and-spoke" approach from my place on Como Lake, with Milan's La Scala, Turin's Teatro Regio, Genoa's Teatro Carlo Felice and Pavia's Teatro Fraschini our favorites so far. None, however compares with the exquisite Teatro di San Carlo in Naples, which was built in 1737, and has been open more-or-less continuously since then. This would, however, be about a 900km spoke!
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We toured Italy by bicycle a few years ago, mostly camping and avoiding popular tourist areas. If you really want to see a country and have the time, that's the way to go. Near the end of the trip we chose little villages where the old men have coffee in the town square over towns like Sienna and Milano. We did spend a couple days in Venice, Pisa, and Rome, but the highlights of the trip were off the beaten path (Alberobello, for example).
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Yes, you will find a crowd in front of the Mona Lisa. And Venus. And Winged Samothrace. That leaves thousands of works over 600,000 square feet with little to no crowds. Last time I was at the Louvre, I had a room full of Rembrandt's to myself for 15 minutes.
BTW, a 5 minute wait will get you to the front and face-to-face with the Mona Lisa.
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Winged Victory, from Samothrace. But how lovely that it's one of your favorites.
2
Having done the major spots in Europe with and without the family, we are moving onto Eastern Europe. The former Soviet satellites offer so much in terms if history, culture, food and art. They are very different from Paris, Rome etc but well worth the trip. There is little luxury, accommodations are basic (some hotels are lovely but not most) and the prices can’t be beat. Tourism is still relatively new and the 50 years of Soviet rule leave a huge gap in understanding tourists. Having said all that, if you want something that not everyone does, head east.
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I'm reading this while on vacation (from a chalet bed in Zermatt)...my teenaged son and I literally left Venice 2 days ago and had the overwhelming sense that the great city I enjoyed 35 years ago is pure Disney during the day anymore.
BUT...when the cruise tourists have walked the plank back to their ship cabins, and the gondoliers have tied up their crafts for the night, the streets belong to the few intrepids and romantics who thrive on the joys of subtle reflections on dark canals rather than ice cream and pizza. It's the best time to be there, to imagine the city's days of Renaissance glory.
Of course if you must visit the famed churches and museums, be prepared to go shoulder to shoulder with the throngs in the daytime. But if at all possible, stay a couple of nights, maybe catch a bit of a free concerto in the piazza once the exhausted masses have headed to their hotels. There's still much to love in Venice.
And then off to a small alpine city to recover!!
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@Donia
And Zermatt isn’t (Swiss) Disney?
Where next? Neuschwanstein?
Maybe it’s actually time to visit Isney.
As part of our honeymoon decades ago, my wife and I stayed in a quiet locanda in Venice, located on a quiet side canal. The city was busy, but not abnormally so. We’ve returned there over the years (our daughter just had to take the gondola ride), and watched it become less and less pleasant a destination.
Two years ago, we were there in June to catch a boat for Istria, Croatia. Venice was mobbed with tourists; overtourism does not do the scene justice.
We’ve been part of the problem, I recognize. (I experience it from the other end in my own Manhattan neighborhood, which has become a “destination” zone.)
Rescheduling visits to off-seasons is one solution, at least for now. The temperature outside might not be optimal, but the experience on the ground is way more enjoyable now that we return every November for several non-touristy months to... (nah, I won’t say where...)
2
I live in a small picturesque town an hour train ride from Venice and a 45 minute drive from Treviso. Venice is indeed like no other city in the world, and yes it's extremely crowded -- in the city center. On the outer sections, it's actually not very crowded. And yes, Treviso is worth a day trip. It's a charming town, with an ancient center not unlike Vicenza or Verona. So is Padova. So is Mantova. Walking the walls of Cittadella is an amazing experience. There are myriad choices around the Veneto region, and while all are worth seeing, if you haven't seen Venice, none are a substitute.
3
@Douglas ritter, You moved to Italy? wow. no kidding. Must be expensive.
1
The world is big and fascinating, and there is much for the traveler to see without all going to the same place. I spent a night in Ravenna prior to my first visit to Venice, and only did so because my daughter had scouted it out. Ravenna was fabulous, and generated for me as many memories as my visit to Venice. Living in California for five years, I noticed that there were sights to see and things to do that people from elsewhere had never heard of, but were more interesting and even more spectacular than sights drawing crowds, just because of better publicity for the well-known sights. But even with all the crowds and aggravations of fellow tourists in Venice and Barcelona, I don't see how you can keep those places off your bucket list.
2
I, too, am glad to have seen, enjoyed, and savored Venice in the 60s and 70s, but who are we to complaint and grouse about the amount of present day tourists who attempt to do the same. Lucky for us, but isn't it wonderful that more of the world is able to travel. It is not only about the new influx of Chinese tourists, but more Americans are able to travel abroad than in the 60's and 70's. The world has changed for the better and worse. Thanks to all for the great suggestions for alternatives, but be glad others are now able to at least try to do the same.
3
My top recommendation for anyone visiting Venice is always the same: Visit the city in WINTER. Absolutely avoid the June-August season - I have only seen it in pictures and cannot imagine being stuck there among those crowds. I went there in early December and it was superb. No queues or crowds, and the city looks beautiful in the winter, even if there's a chance of showers here and there.
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@Sid
Yes! Winter and early spring are ideal for travelling.
The quiet, subdued air of a winter in western Europe and fewer tourists make the trip so enjoyable. I don't know how travellers put up with the hot temperatures
and mass crowds in the June-August months. I'll never again go to Europe in the summer.
I had the same experience with Genoa. An underrated gem.
3
Padua has to be another jewel that is an hour by train from Venice. Highlights include the magnificent Scrovegni Chapel (beautifully preserved fresco cycle by Giotto), Market complex, Cathedral of St. Anthony (relics of St. Anthony, one of the oldest universities in Italy, and super food. Not touristy at all, a true jewel. The experience of the Scrovegni Chapel ranks alongside the Scuola Grande di San Rocco in Venice, and the Sistine Chapel in Rome, but without the crowds and chaos.
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@David
One of the oldest universities in the world and still on top at an annual fee of less than 2,000 euros.
3
Had to say that when I went to Paris and saw the Mona Lisa when I was 19 years old (I'm 64, do the math), I had to stand across the room and didn't get any nearer to it than I did a couple of years ago.
2
My wife and I went to Venice as part of our 25th anniversary trip in 2013. After spending 8 or so days cross-country skiing in the Dolomites (staying on the Austrian side), we stayed several days in Venice. The Rialto bridge was crowded, as was the shopping street directly on either side. But, walk even 3 minutes away, and all was peaceful.
The trick was to be in Venice after Christmas but before Carnaval. We had a room with a roof top deck for 80 euros, right on the Grand Canal (less than half of what it would have been in other seasons). We had one foggy cool day, but enjoyed temperatures in the 50s and sun on the other. We had a wonderful several days, and even witnessed the famous San Marco clock in action (it only is used a couple times a year). Crowds were never an issue, as we learned the routes to avoid the Rialto crowd (and there's a little ferry that one can take to avoid the bridge entirely).
It sort of reminded me of hiking in Yosemite or Yellowstone, once you get a few minutes away from some major attraction, the people disappear. But also the time of year helps. Avoid Easter anywhere in southern Europe unless you're in a rural area (and even there, as I found in Andulucia one year, people will party all night.)
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We were in Rome in April. The top 5 or so tourist sites were mobbed--but the next 20, all fascinating, were almost empty. The same was the case in Paris in October. It is also true of NYC and DC. Go even slightly off season and/or slightly away from the top sights and you will have a marvelous time.
And shame on the people who appear to yearn for the days when only the rich could travel.
4
Venice can actually be quite pleasant — first thing in the morning, that is, or late at night, or in any number of the city’s quieter corners or outlying islands. I have fond memories of sojourning there just after Christmas years ago, when my wife and I had the place largely to ourselves. But I found it quite bearable even on a recent trip in September, though the airport was crowded and rather chaotic. The outright hostility and/or studied indifference of the locals was off putting, I admit, but also understandable. Anyway, there are probably a thousand other cities in Europe worth visiting. To avoid the cruise ship crowds, just head inland. Krakow, though touristy too, of course, is delightful. We had Leonardo’s ‘Lady with an Ermine’ entirely to ourselves there for something like five minutes in April (no selfies allowed).
In Rome this spring, and it was relatively quiet, since it’s not as close to cruise ships as Venice. One tough spot was the Sistine Chapel, which resembled a cattle chute as much as a chapel. Put the mitre on me for a day and I would limit the number of people at one time by an order of magnitude. Breathtaking but needs management.
1
@JP Agree with you about the Sistine Chapel. It was impossible - crowded with rowdy school groups, people with no understanding of what they were looking at and a long winding trip through the Vatican. It was awful.
Selfies, Selfies, Selfies
Standing in front of the Mona Lisa at a relatively uncrowded time with almost everyone around me waiting for their chance to beam idiotically into their smart phones with the "REAL" painting in the background behind layers of plated glass and mulitple crowd control ropes. Why was I here and why did they come?
On a somber grey day I visited Notre Dame, it's vibrant windows glowing from the difused exterior light but not so bright as to wipe out the darkly contrasting the interior's soaring stonework lit by colorful interior lighting. Even the tourist seemed hushed by the somber transcendent moment in this historic place that so many have come in sorrow and joy to find solace and peace. Then I pass a side alter with a full size gaunt marble figure opening his own coffin from the inside apparently getting ready to rise from the dead. A little jarring for our contemporary tastes but certainly demanding relfection on death life and sacrifice. Once again I'm confronted with, in this case cherubic love struck 20 somethings, beaming idiotically into their smart phone with the gaunt marble figure attempting to open his own coffin and rise from the dead in the background. And once again I'm left asking myself why are they here and why did I come.
1
@Tim Cassedy
I tried to take a selfie with one of the ladies at The Crazy Horse and ended up beaming idiotically at Les Flics.
They still let me in the country though.
Perhaps the only solution for Venice is a limited number of tourist visas.
I've never felt so conflicted about anywhere as Venice. How does one keep people away from this unique and beautiful city, its canals, history, architecture, priceless art and the most incredible light? And yet, supporting Venice through veneration (tourism) is also killing it.
My husband and I visited Venice for four nights almost seven years ago, at the end of October, surprised to find it was still heaving with tourists (including us). Of course we were totally enchanted, but also appalled by the gargantuan cruise ships and day-trippers, and, yes, the Disneyfication of the more popular sights. We did our best to explore the quieter areas of Dorsoduro and Santa Croce, especially at night, to get some sense of what's left of the real Venice, but our visit left us both grateful and sad -- and we shall probably never return, if only to save the city from being trampled by two more pairs of feet.
2
I have many fond memories of this great city. I worry that it may sink one day tho, so how can we preserve it to allow people to see it with out the adverse effects?
Jason, stop agonizing. you're overthinking it. The "simple" solution is congestion pricing via an increased tourist fee applied to all purchases, including lodging of any type. Also, I know you didn't mean it literally, but no one has "right" to see a cultural objects, much less to take a picture of a landmark of which there certainly hundreds or thousands of better pictures online.
1
When something is good, many people will want to do it.
That large group of people, singularly interested, are under Capitalism, a business opportunity. That business, in order to succeed, will optimize for maximal profit.
Venice is simply an example of the end state of that process.And there'll be three times as many Starbucks in Treviso by Christmas.
1
To have an idea of Venice pre-mass tourism watch the 1955 film Summertime. Katherine Hepburn and Rossano Brazzi star.
3
Katharine; but a great movie no matter how one spells her name!
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Good article about "over touristing." I recently came back from Bruges, Belgium. This small, charming town has exploded from 2 million to 5 million tourists per year. Our solution: stay overnight to enjoy the place early in the morning or in the evening.
I suggest a series of "Over-Touristed Cities," giving alternative places next door to visit.
AndyVA
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I am sure the residents of Treviso's will be thrilled to hear that the New York Times has made this recommendation. THRILLED!!
3
Sorry, but Treviso is no substitute for Venice. It's a pleasant town, but so are many other towns in Italy. (I just hope it doesn't become "overtouristed" by New York Times readers who follow in Mr. Horowitz's footsteps.)
As for Venice, the best way to avoid crowds is to avoid visiting during peak periods. Just look at the city's official tourism statistics for one recent year, 2015: During the five-month period from November through March, visitor traffic was about about *one-third* of tourist visits from May through September.
1
Venice is lost to massive tourism - even in off season- The cruise ships and throngs led by flag carrying tour leaders are a blight on the planet. ..there really is no off season. Rick Steves has helped to destroy Cinque Terre with his endless promotions of its natural beauty. This author is doing the same to Treviso.
7
As with many things in life, the 80-20 rule applies. a mere 20% of the sights attracts 80% of the tourists (although sometimes it feels more like 1-99!)
So the solution is simple- visit the 80% of places, like Treviso. This article foresaw these issues 5 years ago, and its advice is still spot on: http://www.minorsights.com/2015/01/travel-has-become-victim-of-its-own-success.html
For example, visiting Venice as a day trip from Treviso is a bad idea. It means you will be there at the same time as everyone else. Much better to stay in a quiet corner of Venice, and explore the top sights like San Marco first thing in the morning, or at night, when the day trippers are gone.
There are several other strategies that work, and the article lists most of them.
1
NY Times reporters should do an article about the misery of walking south in Manhattan from the 40s to the 30s during the morning rush--I feel like a salmon trying to leap upstream.
Try taking a cab from 35th Street and Seventh Avenue and having to get out at 29th Street (after 10 minutes to travel 6 blocks at a cost of $8) and walk the remaining 15 blocks in pouring rain because traffic is so congested.
Nobody in this city has to travel to Europe to be made miserable by overcrowding and congestion. It's an everyday occurrence--so much so this paper doesn't even consider it news.
6
@Laurence Bachmann We've visited New York a few times in January - it's MUCH calmer that time of year than in July. And the weather isn't usually too bad.
Can we just all stop traveling, please? Or at least as much. Stay home. Get to know your neighbors or get to know them better. Host a community potluck. All these cheap airfares are melting icebergs. Go to your public library and read novels set in these grand places. Or watch movies about them. But as for seeing them in real life, I really think we should know and do better. Travel has become an obsession for many and like all addictions, it distracts from living an authentic life.
If you desire to see Iceland, please consider watching the new film Woman at War, set in Iceland, instead. It's a powerful and timely movie about our modern dystopia, with some humor too to lighten the subject matter.
If I sound preachy, I don't care. According to the U.N., we've got a decade or so to figure out this Climate Crisis. If we do nothing, beautiful Venice and Treviso are assured to sink.
8
@Greenie
The Stay Home Movement needs a role model. Show us how it’s done!
Still want to see Venice! And Treviso too.
3
Nearly all cities overrun by tourists are cruise ship destinations. They pollute the environment and clog every city center with people who don‘t even eat a sandwich. Ban cruise ships first, then stag parties and people who just want to get drunk and vomit in front of a scenic building. It will still be crowded, but much more pleasant.
13
The last time I passed through Venice it was home to a population that seemed really unhappy dealing with tourists. It's a gorgeous city, though. Doubt I'll ever go back.
2
Your articles destroy paradise. I moved to San Miguel De Allende 17 years ago. Today that town no longer exists. Thanks to your many articles, we have a Madison ave meets Mexico. Shocking how fast this quiet spot changed into a traffic ridden, crime magnet.
2
I just returned from an Italian vacation. I have been to Italy twice before this recent visit, both previous visits included Venice. Having read all about Venice's problem with overtourism, I was hesistant to include Venice on this trip's itinerary (my last trip was less than pleasurable because the crowds in the 2000s was already oppressive). But this is the first trip for my children and I felt it is important for them to see Venice. We took the strategy of bookng an Airbnb in town, heading out very early in the morning (bascially before the big day tripping tourist groups and cruise ship tourists arrive) to experience the big spots like St. Mark's Square. We avoided the main drag between Rialto Bridge and St. Mark's at peak hours. We also retreated to the Airbnb to rest for a few hours in the afternoon and head out again around 5:30 pm. The strategy worked. Pass the main attractions (which is still necessary to see), we enjoyed just wandering around and seeing the last of the typical Venetian lives. It was lovely. We also took the opportunity to attend a live performance of Vivaldi (son of Venice) in a church near the Academia bridge. That was the highlight of the trip. This is probably the last time I would visit Venice. We had our chance and I hope others would have a bit of what we had.
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@Jackie Kim
Yes, but the airbnb is what the Italians and Venetians feel is contributing to the demise of Venice. Surely, and inexpensive hotel or regular B and B would have been a more sympatico gesture to the residents who earn a living in Venice.
26
@Jackie Kim Unfortunately, booking that Airbnb contributes to the problems that Venice is facing. Every year more and more citizens are forced to leave because they get priced out and buildings get re-purposed for tourists or absentee owners, which leads to more tourist overcrowding. If you really want to help Venice, book a hotel, find a great restaurant off the beaten path and seek out artisans who are still plying their trade in a city that's making it increasingly difficult for them to survive.
13
@Jackie Kim
Next time get an opera ticket for La Fenice -- still an 18th C opera house.
PS Florence can be worse than Venice... during the day with the tour groups.... but they disperse...
People who need people are the luckiest people....
2
My husband, son and daughter -in-law and I were in Venice last October. I'll agree it's crazy with tourists but it's a one of a kind place that one should see at least once. One bit of advice, if you have arthritis in your knees, that isn't the place for you. Venice has 400 bridges that span over about 200 canals. Anywhere you go you have to go up and over the canals. The streets are made of cobblestones which are very uneven. Saw some pretty nasty falls. In October, we got in the Doge's palace without too much wait, and a seat at Florian's Café on St. Mark's Square without waiting. So it depends on when you go. Another place outside of Venice is a train ride to Bolzano up north. Wonderful place.
23
@CB
Ah yes, Venice with end stage bone on bone arthritis.. If you dispense with pain killers for a while- several months preferably (I suffered for ten years before replacement) -- go into the Farmacia and buy some Diclofenac /Voltran-- no script necessary. All miracle pain relievers seemed to stop working after awhile, so when I arrived in Venice I had simply put up with pain and not bothered to take any NSAID.. But having walked too much ... stopped by La Farmacia .. and was fine for the next three days. Except for the bridges, Venice is flat.
From Venice one can take the train W to Padua (the Arena Chapel - Giotto), Vicenza (Villa Rotunda, Palladian theater), Verona -- all of which have their charm as well. And use your cane. (Also get a vaporetto pass!)
3
What all of those rarely visited towns and cities lack is name-recognition. Go to Treviso and who cares?
What they also lack is the sheer number of things to see or do. Most have a single or, at most, a few sites that would be of interest to most people.
You can make the best of being in one of there out-of-the-way places if you have to, and if you're are creative, you can make any place sound great. But for the rest of us, the well-known places are well-known for a reason.
There's always the off-season.
18
@Allen I live in Prague. There is no longer any "off-season" We have twelve months of heavy tourism. When I moved here February was slow, but even that now is heavily touristed. The big shame--truly--is that very few tourists make any effort to visit the other wonderful, charming towns and sights of the Czech Republic.
13
@Allen. You travel to places you think will impress other people??
16
@Maggie That was my first impression too. His first (and therefore most important) point is that people he knows need to know the city, so that what, it is more impressive to your friends? Shouldn't we travel to enjoy ourselves and our experiences rather than to brag about how "well-traveled" we are? Some of my best travel memories are from smaller places, but hidden gems of their own. Plus, telling people stories about those times is always more worthwhile than just telling them I saw all the tourist spots from "insert-famous-city" that they recognize from Instagram.
4
Treviso is a beautiful city, but may I also suggest Venice's other, less- traveled-to sister, Chioggia?? Charming, canal-ed, and way less crowded. Hope it stays that way.
43
@Stephanie Padua, also.
7
Many of these comments reflect an attitude I typical hear about travel to Venice: the fortunate who were privileged or lucky enough to visit before it was overrun by tourists on cruises or those who will never visit because they've heard the canals are rank and crowds unpleasant. Both show a patronizing superiority over those who have yet to visit. May I suggest a visit to the Tintoretto exhibit in Washington and then the real thing at the Church of Madonna dell'Orto in Cannareggio? Then see the Titan and Veronese masterpieces in the 16th century churches where they worked. Go in November or December. Venice is breathtaking.
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@Mary York I appreciate you comments. Speaking for myself, I don't really have any desire to be crowded in a cruise ship for a week and mass unloaded with other tourists. I don't think that stating that fact is condescension, although I am surprised that many people that I have encountered personally don't mind it. On my vacation, I would rather avoid crowds as much as possible and relax. I often travel to Europe and try to arrange it such that it is off-season or in less-traveled places. I enjoy the less stressed lifestyle and living in the moment that those places afford one.
11
Traveling anywhere remotely on people's radars in Europe between April and September is just ridiculous at this point. As others have said, you have to go in Oct-Nov and Jan-March if you want a chance to breathe. For example, Rome in late January is a delight. Venice, however, is always a horrible experience now. I've been several times and the last one I actually was served what I was 99% sure was a previously frozen pizza at a restaurant. Back in 2000, when I was an 18-yo student, I went to Venice with a friend in November. We got kicked out of our hostel the second night because a drunk guy was yelling at us in the square in front of the place (the noise was "colpa vostra"). We spent all night roaming the empty streets. It was actually quite beautiful. We had fresh baked cornetti at 6am and took the first train back to Rome. That's my best Venice memory. All the subsequent times there have been awful.
21
@kas If that was your most beautiful experience, I think you are the problem, not Venice.
2
@Marie Condo:
he didn't say HE was drunk and shouting!
5
I was in Venice right after carnival this year (early march) for work- it was not overcrowded, and it was foggy and stunning. I have also visited during the opening week of the biennial where it was what you describe, but there were still empty streets away from the exhibitions and attractions.
4
I spent three days in Venice last month. It is a place I always wanted to go and, according to the numerous travel snobs that have been chiming in here, I lose points because I have “checked it off my list” (unlikely to return because there is not enough time left in my life and I have too many other things to check off my list) and stayed in an Airbnb (which probably displaced a local Venetian family). I score points for not having taken a selfie, not having arrived on a cruise ship, and having dropped a bunch of Euros while I was there. Am I worthy?
41
@Charlie Porters
YES!
@Charlie Porters I don't think people are being snobby for you wanting to check it off your list but you do realize that many tourists don't experience it as you did. They just want bragging rights, not to see wonderful artwork and APPRECIATE it. They just want to say they did it. I am glad you were able to cross off your list a place you truly wanted to experience :)
1
@Charlie Porters I don't plan to take a big cruise ship. But...I'd love to take one of the Viking River cruises through central Europe. I know the boats are much smaller than the huge ships...but there are now quite a few of them. But they do seem like a good way to visit a few cities without clogging up the roads or the local hotels/B&Bs.
1
I'm pretty well-travelled, and a family member and I made the mistake of visiting Venice for our first time, during the Venice film festival. We know how Not to act like rude Americans, and speak basic Italian. And yet, we were struck by how outright 'rude' so many Venetians were to us. We'd never experienced anything quite like it, in our other travels.
And then we realized. How could you blame local people for not liking that their small city streets are constantly over-run by packs of tourists? It didn't matter how polite or 'un-American' we may have been. We were simply seen as 'intrusive tourists'.
And yeah, while tourism may be the livelihood of Venice, that doesn't mean the locals have to like it. Imagine us NYers all having to live in the heart of say Times Square, and being constantly asked for directions, or 'do you know where a public toilet is?'
34
@Lisa Actually, quite a few of the locals *do* like tourism. For better or worse, tourism is the lifeblood of Venice's economy, and people who depend on the tourist industry include both the obvious candidates (gondoliers, tour guides, B&B owners, retailers, restaurateurs) and those who rely on tourism indirectly (boatbuilders who build or restore gondolas, artisans who carve oarlocks and oars, employees of the local transit system, people in the construction trades, delivery-boat owners, etc.).
One of Venice's--and Italy's--problems is a lack of "civic engagement." If you look at Gallup's "civic engagement scores," you'll find Italy with a rank of 26 (compared to 60 for the United States), right behind Zimbabwe and Nicaragua. In Venice, there's a NIMBY or "I've got mine" mentality among those who are lucky enough to have pensions or non-tourism jobs. They don't seem to understand, or to care, that getting rid of cruise ships, keeping people from renting out their late granny's unoccupied apartment, etc. will hurt their less fortunate neighbors.
6
As someone with deep roots in Italy, unfortunately there's a huge difference between tourists who treat cities and places like another consumer product and those who visit because the art, history and culture of these places means something. It's not 'elitism' to have respect for the places one visits, to be conscious of the impact of how one arrives there, of the mounds of garbage one leaves behind or the impact of your short-term rental displacing the natives. Mass tourism has literally destroyed the culture of many cities and towns in Italy, which are now gutted, Disney-fied theme parks for the masses. Sorry, allowing more and more mindless, check-the-box tourism in the name of 'equality' hardly compensates for this loss.
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@AlecC
The first time I visited Italy was to see where my father and grandparents were born. It was a delight. We went for 21 days visiting his birthplace, Firenze, Rome, Venice, Milan etc. We went to view "David" and stayed at the Accademia for nearly 3+ hours watching the light change the statue we were mesmerized by it. We ate up everything that Italy had to offer especially local customs, we didn't wear the ubiquitous jeans and sneakers, we blended in with the locals and were polite to all. It was magical. I have seen many ugly American tourists and am always enraged at the way they carry themselves. You're right about Disney, I know a person who has never taken their children ot any museum not a one it's always Disney for their vacations, that makes me sad. As if the Disney Corp needed more money. It's sad when more people take selfies with a Van Gogh that actually taking in the paintings. I've seen that countless times at the Met.
20
@Margo Channing Yes, those other people are such a trial. You know, those people who will never utter the words "the first time I visited Italy". Because they'd be lucky to even visit once. And however much you look down on it, the Disney theme parks in Florida and California attract many, many European tourists. Yes! Even (gasp!!) some very cultured Italians. I've seen as many rude, inconsiderate foreign tourists as Americans and I'm getting a bit tired of sanctimonious super crust Americans trying to make themselves look superior and sophisticated by trotting out the old "crude, ignorant, loud American tourist" cliche. News flash: it's possible for people to enjoy both a trip to Disney World and the sight of Michelangelo's David. They aren't the same thing, but they aren't mutually exclusive either. BTW, when the King Tut exhibit was in NY at the Met, at least 4 European tourists asked me to take their photo in some part of the exhibit even though photos were forbidden. And they were as likely to leave litter on the steps as anyone else. Hard to be live, I know, but foreigners are no more virtuous, cultured, polite or considerate than Americans. Your anti-American snobbery is showing.
4
My daughter and I walking along the Embarcadero at midnight after a late dinner. In February. No one else in sight. The city was ours, a mind blowing experience. The next day at the Doge’s Palace, no line. Literally no line, walk right in! The same at the Gallerie dell’Accademia.
In the “good old days” of the Grand Tour it was wealth that distinguished one from the hoard. With the advent of wide spread prosperity (and we wouldn’t want it any other way) it is time and smarts. Go off season, check docking schedules for cruise ship free days, and utilize areas like Treviso for a life. Because life is still out there.
And Venice should charge the same entry fee as Disneyland!
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@C. Neville
Charging a Disneyland fee isn't going to stop visitors anymore than it has at Disneyland. People keep coming, it seems, because of the price!
1
Embarcadero? It’s a RIVA.
@C. Neville
Embarcadero ! It’s the RIVA.
Glad I saw Venice 30 years ago, and it was already over-touristed then. The other great art and top attractions cities, including the till-now obscure ones, are getting ruined now as well. Eventually the only option, if you want to meet locals, speak the languages as best you can, have good simple food, will be to go to less attractive working class areas, even light industrial towns, or a few remaining deep farm country locales.
Writing articles about less famous towns will just mess them up, and the experience for leisurely informed travelers. It's all getting wrecked by Airbnb etc.
I wonder how many tourists realize that there are vast swaths of the interior U.S. and Canada that are wonderfully peaceful and worth a look, and the locals are just people going about their business being themselves.
28
in 2015, I made my first visit to Europe since I was a small child living in Brussels in the early 1950s. Didn't go to Paris. Didn't go to Venice or Rome. Didn't go to Barcelona. Didn't even go back to Brussels. With my parents, I had spent many wonderful times in all those places (and more) long ago, before cruise ships, before they were overrun. Instead, I went to a part of Europe that is still affordable, still full of art, culture and history ... and surprisingly good food. And were the locals aren't sick of seeing you in their streets. It was summer, and there was no shortage of tourists, but nothing like the mobs you see in the name-check destinations. Where? Bavaria. It was memorable, and I loved that trip. You can see the "Mona Lisa" better at home, with a web browser.
18
Padua, Cremona, Lucca, Ferrara, Ascoli, Lecce, Matera, Ragusa, Cingoli, Gubbio....the hits roll on and on. Almost anywhere in Italy is worth a visit.
Enjoy!
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@TWM
Loved Lucca. I love Montepulciano and Pienza too. We must explore your suggestions.
1
@TWM To see more of Gubbio, Volterra, Perugia try this http://bit.ly/2q0vrPr
Venice is one of those cities that one must visit at least once in a lifetime and I'm glad I got mine out of the way in the early 70's. It was much less crowded but the water in the canals was full of trash, cans and plastic rapers floating in thick greenish water. Gotta envy cities located in land away from those monstrous cruise ships...
8
I also agree about spoiling the hidden places. I was fortunate enough to have been born in a time when we could visit the most famous tourist spots on the globe without crowds or barriers. Those days are gone now and i weep for their ruination by overpopulation. Why does no one ever mention the most obvious cause of all global ills: overpopulation???
56
@Alexantha. And too much money.
2
Now, with this article, Treviso will be ruined as well.
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@Kathleen- Thank you! I stopped reading after I saw the headline. By time I get there it will be trashed by the "Americanos"
@Kathleen
Why? Because Someone takes a selfie stick out?
Hyperventilating tourists want these towns to be authentic.....or else!!!
These responses are very amusing.
Tourist places in Italy: hot, smelly, dirty, crowded, grafitti-ridden.
Take my advice and stay home.
2
@vbering
Miss out on seeing some of our greatest human achievements because of heat and people and spray paint?
How about instead people do about 10 minutes of research to find out the times of the year...or even just the time of day... to visit these places. (Ive been in the Sistine Chapel when its practically empty.)
Im astonished by the poor choices travelers make when it comes to timing and popular destinations.
3
@vbering
Spoiled by the culture of Pullman?
1
Thanks to this article, and others that will follow, Treviso is toast.
33
What amazed me on a trip to Venice about 6 years ago, apart from it's breathtaking beauty in the late afternoon light, is how the crowds evaporate when you go even a small distance from the San Marco-Rialto Bridge path. It seems like most visitors go from one to the other and much of the rest of the city is ignored. Too bad for them, but good for those of us who want more than a selfie in front of a well known site.
27
This crowd eschewing consolation prize named Treviso reminds me of my disappointment as a kid of not getting to ride on the Matterhorn at Disneyland because the line was too long. Dad would say, at least you get the tram ride in the parking lot back to the car when we go home.
4
Luca, who owns the outstanding Venice restaurant "Local", told me once that the real problem were the cruise ship excursions, who crowd the streets, and return to the ship without buying so much as a key chain. Intrepid travellers who follow NYT recommendations are always welcome.
21
I've been to Venice twice, both times in the dead of winter after the Christmas holiday rush. The weather was freezing and drizzly, but the crowds weren't bad at all. It's possible to wander slightly off the beaten path and find little corners that still feel like real neighborhoods with cafes that cater to local workers and vegetable stands clearly not meant for tourists. Go when the weather is worst and you can still catch a glimpse of what makes the city magnificent.
24
@LL I agree, best time to visit that part of Italy is winter. 25 years ago I spent a great New Year's Eve week in Padua, visited Venice on a lovely crisp, clear day, and went to Bologna for the day also. There were no tourists at that time, but Padua and Bologna were bustling with... Italians!
3
As if selfies aren't taken everywhere. That poor girl fell of a cliff taking one. What's over crowding? Different for everybody. Besides when did what somebody else does become so influential in one's life? Unless its those at Yankee Stadium with the field as a backdrop standing up to take selfies and blocking my view of the game. This sounds like a wonderful place but I did 2 weeks in Venice and it was great. Picking time of the year influences the number of people you will come across also.
1
Good God, fix this...
"In Trieste, another northern Italian city hoping to become a base for Venice tourists, I recently watched set sail a cruise ship, designed for the Chinese market, with an interior décor decked out in faux Venetian street scenes, canals and squares."
1
It's kind of amazing. Venice was already very crowded when my wife (then girlfriend) and I went more than 30 years ago. No cruise ships though. No giant crowds. And we didn't stay in Venice, we stayed in Padua and took the train in. Much better. Plus, Padua is wonderful. The Giotto chapel is still maybe my favorite place on the planet. It's terrible what's happened to all these tourist spots. When we took our kids to Italy a few years ago, the lines were nuts. There are ways around it, we ordered Colosseum tickets online. and got tickets to the Uffize ahead. But the crowds are insane. You almost can't see anything at the Vatican (and the only way to get in is to pay extra for a tour group). When we originally went to the Vatican we were almost alone.
8
@Jeff M https://bit.ly/2X3eXa0
Padua in northern Italy is one of those great old cities with a beautifully preserved historic center. The pedestrian zone has got arcades and shops, spritz bars and cafés, cobblestone and broad piazzas, and lots of people out having a good time.
Treviso sounds good. Planning a slightly longer visit to Venice I've been thinking of going Aschenbach and staying on the Lido, and making day trips into Venice on the vaporetto. Unfortunately, the Grand Hôtel des Bains is not available, but you can still go for a swim there, or next door. Another alternative is to stay at Mestre or Marghera on the mainland and take the train.
4
I went to Venice quite a few times over 43 years since 1976. The combination of the number of tourists rising way past remotely acceptable levels, where lining up at Yankee Stadium at post season may be more comfortable than visiting Venice, and the regrettable and some times aggravating drop in quality of everything on offer and the ridiculously inflated prices, meant, for me that 2015 was my last time ever in Venice. Ciao bella!
Treviso, or Lido di Jesolo, or even Chioggia are OK alternatives within a dozen miles or so, but there are so many underrated great destinations in the world these days where they treat you much better than today's Italian experience...
I'm sorry to be negative about the sacred cow of tourism (e cultura!) but methinks Italians are taking tourists for granted to a degree that has become laughable and finally unacceptable to me. And I've been living in Italy, 120 miles from Venice, for 11 years now!!! And no, I'm not Italian.
5
I wish people would stop publicizing alternatives to overtouristed spots. Let people who value quieter places find them on their own. Otherwise they will eventually become less desirable for the same reasons we looked for them in the first pace.
43
@Cynthia G
well-said. amen.
1
While visiting the Venice Biennial I decided to stay a day and a half in Treviso because I wanted to see the Brion Cemetery, one of the most beautiful architectural projects by Carlo Scarpa, which is just a 35 minute cab ride from Treviso, in San Vito d'Altivole.
Treviso was a very nice and pleasant town and visiting this Scarpa project was a superlative and amazing architectural experience.
3
So glad I visited this place in 1972 in summer and 1978 in winter. There were tourists yes but not like this. I wouldn't go near this place now.
4
I went always to Venice in the Winter months....the history is the same the city is the same but nice and quiet. I love the tranquility there when no tourists are around. Italy has many, many more places where you can go and enjoy the country and its history.....I do not like "tourist" travel. Going your own ways is now easier then ever.
2
Venice has long been overrun by tourists, and it now resembles a theme park more than a real city. Absolutely visit Treviso. But Padua, home to one of the Europe's oldest universities, is just 25 minutes distant by train. And my favorite small city of the region, Verona, is just an hour away. The life there is far more authentic, the sites not as trampled, and the food is much, much better.
12
The last time I was in Lucerne, it was overcrowded. Ditto Salzburg. Same in Paris and Prague. I don't see a solution that will stop the hoards in most places, but Venice, but dint of its location, could easily turn off the tap. Whether the Italian government will do so is the only question and the answer is, "doubtful."
4
The last few visits I've made to Italy, I've found more enjoyment in the less touristed cities and neighborhoods -- simply because in my book, a major reason to visit is the relaxed lifestyle and good food, which not only can be found almost anywhere but are more likely to be found beyond the highest-trafficked spots. On a recent trip to Lake Como, we braved the crowds in Bellagio, which is deservedly praised for the beauty of its villas -- but honestly much preferred Lecco, where we rented an AirBnB to attend a friend's wedding, simply because it felt like a lived-in city and is not swarmed by tourists.
I get that this is not possible in the same way for new visitors -- of course you don't want to miss the things that travelers have been marveling over for centuries. But even on your first trip to Italy, it's well worth planning to see if you can spend at least part of your time slightly off the beaten track. You will see the real, current-day Italy this way.
As for the cruise ships, they are long overdue to be kept OUT of the Venice Lagoon. Other popular cruise stops make do with tender boats, surely they can do the same there.
22
A different NYT article pointed out that industrial tourism and travel are significant contributors to fossil fuel emissions that are poisoning our atmosphere and changing climate.
Travel has been fun, but as with many other voluntary activities in a world of anthropogenic mass extinction, the ethical choice is to not to it anymore, especially by airplane or motor vehicle.
It's sad, but if we're serious about slowing down our destruction of the biosphere, we have to exercise restraint.
20
I don't think this author has done Treviso any favors here. The advice should be to explore many other wonderful towns in that area of Italy.
Having been to Venice in the 70s and 80s for extended trips when we took our children in the late 90s we decided to stay at Chioggia and take the boat over to Venice for day trips. Though I missed the wonderful wandering through the city of Venice from the earlier trips it was the way to go in June with the children at that time. Our day trips to Venice were terrible, crowded and I never felt like the children got to know the Venice I had known. I can only imagine how bad it is by now.
My advice find another place, explore it, walk around and go in off season.
3
We just returned from a European vacation and the tourist scene has changed since we last went a decade ago. The increase in large tour groups means there are often people at a site only because that is where the tour is going. We found ourselves navigating around people who really didn't care about what they were seeing - just going through the motions. Often people would just stand in front of an exhibit, waiting for their next direction. And don't get me started on the sense of entitlement some tour groups assume. Luckily for us, tour groups only go for the "show" exhibits so the rest of the museum is almost empty for the rest of us. But tour group mentality doesn't respect the goals and commitments of museums/sites while often ruining the experience for those who do.
16
I was in Venice in February 1997 and it was almost empty of tourists. Enjoyed the sites and walking with my daughter without much chatter. Ironically We arrived during a brief SNOW storm and it was cold. An alternative to visiting during the tourist season.
2
I'm 60 years old. When I was a small child in the early sixties my family lived in Padova for a couple years. We were close enough that we went to Venice occasionally at all times of year. I remember how nice it was on a rainy winter day. I'd recommend that as a good time to go. If you can swing it, you should try to go on a rainy Tuesday in November of 1963.
29
@David Rain in Venice is no fun -- the calle are too narrow for a two-way parade of umbrellas. Better on a dry day.
I remember visiting Venice first in 1973 (in the summer) and later in 1992 (in the Fall). The Fall definitely had a lot less people and I could see clear across St. Marks Square. In 1973, Venice was tolerable but the walkways around Venice were at least halfway jammed with tourists. Based on the mobs of tourist now visiting Venice, along with those huge tourist ships, and I wouldn't go back.
2
I visited Venice on my first European trip in 1994. Seven of us rented a van in Milan and drove first to Lake Como and down northern Italy for three weeks, stopping in Venice for three days. There were no cruise ships then...no crowds...no distractions other than the beauty and serenity of the island.
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Actually good food in Venice was not as easy to find as other Italian places. Good restaurants are super expensive and there is a lot of seafood given the lagoon. It's not the hearty Italian food we all love. Of course it's a magical place. My advice is go slightly out of season. Spring break - march/April is good.
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This is a good, thoughtful article. An artist and writer, I travel extensively, but I explore mostly places that are off-the-beaten-path. I also travel strategically off-season and on quiet days, like the beginnings of weeks. I went to Venice a decade ago in early April, when it was cool and occasional light rain showers passed like shadows not too far above. Venice was uncrowded and delightful. (I painted several landscapes, unbothered). I avoided the hoards of tourists-strategically. That's all you can do in this day of mass media and hyper-tourism. Avoid.
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@jasonhorowitz....thank you for putting Treviso on the list! Now the hordes have a new location to add to their ever growing list! Do you not see the irony here?
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@beth Relax. Very few people will take his recommendation, except for those who might benefit by getting away from the crowds. No cruise ships are docking in Treviso.
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@beth That is a problem. Write about it and they will come.
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Super nice article but you left out “ trevisano alla griglia”, not to be missed in season!
In the smaller towns at least you engage in an experience instead of checking the box of your selfie!
Anne
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"Just because someone arrives on a cruise ship or a Ryanair flight, because he eats a packed sandwich in the square and buys nothing but a plastic Gondola keychain, because he seems — maybe is! — boorish and uncouth, unsophisticated and uninitiated, does that mean he is any less moved by the light splintering across the Grand Canal, that he has any less right to see it? "
Yes, if that is the same person who has come mostly to take selfies ... I'd like to see what happens if picture-taking were banned in places like St. Marks. Would the Selfyizers bother to go anymore?
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@Daisy Clampit
Of course they would. Selfyizers are everywhere in Venice. Every bridge is a hazard zone now, especially the Rialto. There's no stopping the madness. Venice has become Disney on acid, and mass tourism is their means of survival. If they can't find other industries to prosper there, tourism will be their only source of life.
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@Daisy Clampit
Less selfieizers sounds great.
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I rode the train to Venice, and spent three nights there. I wandered and savored and engaged with locals. Each morning, I saw outsized cruise ships disgorge impatient hordes tethered to smart phones. When the cruise ships left, I savored the silence, but lamented the piles of trash left behind. However, I preferred the large rodent population that replaced the tourists. These cities should feel free to rate the tourists. If they are just cheap invaders looking for a selfie, they don't deserve to be there. Slow, meaningful interactions are so much more rewarding. Quick-trip tourists are destroying the culture.
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@Just Live Well While accommodations in Venice are pricier than most other parts of Italy, unless things have changed tremendously, virtually all the "hordes" descending on Venice only stay a few hours.
Those who do stay overnight, can still find a very different city, much quieter, with the possibility of wandering seemingly deserted calles that link the points of San Marco, Academia, and Ferrovia.
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@Just Live Well
Wait, hasn’t this place been around for thousands of years? Destroyed?
Maybe snobs are just a wee bit overheated here, wanting Venice for themselves so they can have an “authentic” experience.
There’s always Cleveland.
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@M Not at all. Venetians who remain said this to me. Nobody's anti-tourist, but they are overwhelmingly against the hurried selfie crowd who only wants to take pictures of themselves in front of things they'll never contemplate directly. They are the antithesis of the European style of life, which is deliberate and careful reflection of life's finer moments.
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I am grateful that I started traveling 40 years ago and saw all these great places before the hordes. I am currently traveling, I have been traveling for 6 years now and I'm not gonna tell you how I do it, because then everyone would do it. I live in the countries I travel to, a few months at a time. The last time I was in Venice I was horrified, every day giant cruise ships disgorged thousands of people and it was a catastrophe. Cruise ships everywhere are a catastrophe as is evidence by a 20 million fine imposed on Carnival this week (after a 40 million fine) for ocean dumping. I have lived in countries these cruise ships go to and generally they do little to enrich the communities. In 3rd world countries, the ports are often owned by the cruise companies and tourists are subtly warned that it is unsafe to venture into the town without a prepaid tour. For tropical cruises, virtually all of them offer some sort of dolphin experience (essentially a pool with dolphins) and a private island (some tiny atoll whose coral reef has been destroyed). Unfortunately, the people who travel on these type of vacations have no interest in actually experiencing a different culture, they take theirs with them in their all you can eat buffets. At the Louvre last time, I watched as a Chinese tour group took selfies and some of them never even turned to look at the painting. I used to think Americans were ugly tourists, but Chinese and Russians can only get visas if in a group...well..
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@thewriterstuff you’re a traveler after my own heart. The first, and last, time I was in Venice was New Year’s Eve Y2K. Yes there were crowds in Piazza San Marco but 90% were locals like my wife and the rest were students and European tourists. It was a lovely time, no hordes of unruly and rude American/Chinese/Russian tourists, no cruise ships, which to me is a repulsive thing unto itself in the lagoons of Venice, just a huge party where everybody shared their champagne, wine and beer with their neighbors and then, since it was the eve of Y2K, 5000 of us slept in the train station waiting for the first train to Milan to be called at 6am (it left at 7:30 Italian style. We’ve always been museum, opera and beach goers wherever we travel to. But this instagram tourism is sickening and is wasted on the masses. Poor Treviso.
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So,e years ago it was in an NYT article I learned of Treviso. The article listed alternative cities to avoid the massive crowds. Is is going to become the next Tuscany with this sort of publicity. A day trip to Venice proved horrifying as I shuffled with crowds of humans, baby buggies, large dogs. Restaurants and junk souvenir shops staffed by foreigners - Russians and SE Asians. So glad I was staying in Treviso where no languages other than Italian wee heard. Hope it stays sane.
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Sounds almost as bad as Mount Everest. Back in the last century when we visited Venice we would usually stop at Chioggia, also a day-trip distance from Venice, and you arrive there the old way, by water.
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I enjoyed Padua more than Venice , better food, better shops, lots to see, and few crowds.
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@Donald I live near Padova and I agree. It's a great city to visit and rarely crowded. And the Church of St. Antonio is one of the best sights in Italy. (As is the Scrovegni Chapel.) It's not Venice, but one should not miss a day in Padova.
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The overall rise in wealth around the world, coupled with the cheap/increased availability of air flights, is a formula for disaster, both ecologically and in terms of the quality of life once found in attractive destinations. The message of mega-businesses (like luxury cruise lines) is: Everyone can have it all. Unfortunately, this is the fastest way to destroy all that we hold dear.
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@Addison Steele
Note also the tourism tech, like Tripadvisor and Airbnb, that plunge millions into convincing people that they must see and do everything. Their profit model is based on growth of tourism and they bring in billions by skimming off the top of what the local providers make. They don't actually do anything valuable for the traveler or the local destination -- but that doesn't stop them from getting their sticky fingers in every pot.
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"So did my Italian friends who begged me to keep it a secret. Sorry." As a resident of a small community that has seen a 70% increase in tourism in the past few years with no relief in sight from how a seasonal ratio of about 290 tourists per resident distorts the lives of those who live here, may I say this is not particularly amusing. But it is a funny way to treat "friends".
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I married my beloved late wife in Venice in 1995 (long before and in the same marriage hall as George Clooney). She threw her bouquet from the center of the Rialto Bridge to the cheers of probably a thousand people. Our marriage photo was in St. Mark’s Square. We went back ten years later for our anniversary. I loved getting lost there with her. But after her passing in 2016, I cannot bear to return - too many memories. So I’m very happy to see there’s an alternative, since I love Italy as well as canals. I’ll have to get to Treviso (before the crowds this article will surely generate) and create some new memories.
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@Lightning14 — the only crowds Treviso will attract are the ones staying there because it’s cheaper than Venice and yet just thirty minutes by train to Santa Lucia station. Having just been there, I think “oasis” is overselling it. There remain plenty of places in Venice where you can stroll without being bothered by crowds yet still retain the charm you’d dream of, more than Treviso has to offer. Just don’t expect to find it on St. Mark’s Square.
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Dear Larry:
Thanks for the positive reinforcement - not. Maybe Treviso is my gateway to an eventual solo return to Venice. But I’d still be looking for Debbie striding towards me up those narrow streets.
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@Lightning14 If you get bored with the Benettons' town, try Mantova, it's not far, and it has canals, too.
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I like Treviso, but as another responder wrote, it is not Venice. It is a pleasant town, but also somewhat hollowed out by being an upmarket boutique destination. Venice is largely (not completely) hollowed out, but it is visually glorious. Both are now watered-down versions of Italy.
If you want a stronger taste of Italy, go to one of the many hundreds, even thousands, of small towns where Italian life still goes on in a more real and earthy way, where the food markets and bike shops and wineries are there in their full authenticity. Where people dance in the streets some nights, where the passegiata is still in full swing, where an English speaker is still more of a surprise than a given. I am not going to name any names -- go out there and find them for yourself.
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@Malcolm
I agree. Treviso is nowhere near a Venice experience. This article will not destroy Treviso, because Treviso will never attract the selfie hordes.
Authentic Italy can be found, even in Venice, but you need to be armed with specific information. For the sake of the future, I will not name names either.
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@Malcolm exactly. I could recommend Pavia to people but most tourists would avoid it as it’s in the flatlands and no interesting Tuscan hills to admire, it’s a typical provincial Italian city, university town. I’d occasionally see tourists there but they always seemed like they ended up there after getting lost looking for the countryside. Venice is a shell of its former self. Even in 1999 when I was there last it had a soul. Not anymore. Darned cruise ships and Instagram tourists.
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@Malcolm, So skip NYC, go to Ames, Iowa: avoid crowds, see the real USA.
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I was in Venice a few weeks ago. The overwhelming majority of tourists spoke Italian, and apparently, were from Italy. Employees of the hotels, bakeries, restaurants and shops were without an exception courteous. Maybe it wasn't yet "cruise ship Armageddon time", but the crowds seemed no more "damaging" then those on 5th avenue or in Times Square.
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@Winston Smith
Thank you for this response.
It’s as if some of the responders assume they will have Venice to themselves for their own personal “authentic” experience.
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As a 20 year resident of one of the worlds smallest, but best known tourist destinations I can tell you there is a simple answer. Confine the day trippers to San Marco. Put gates on the bridges. If you are staying three days or longer you get a pass to get thru the gates. The suburbanites from the cruise ships won’t even notice the change. An harsher alternative would be to not let them get off the ships, but to have vendors go on board with souvenirs to purchase. Most of these folks really don’t want to see Venice, it’s just part of the excuse to go on a cruise.
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@Sausca For locals, its nearly impossible to walk on the sidewalks in Times Square and forget about enjoying the holiday displays on 5th Ave.
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This is all good. What people love about Venice and Florence, excepting the art museums and big monuments, can really be found in most Italian cities.
But people shouldn't give up on Venice. Just visit during the 8 or 9 months of the year when Venice isn't plagued by cruise ships.
Autumn in Italy lasts long. The weather is mild often well into December. If you visit Venice in late fall, and just use your legs, just 15 minutes of walking takes you away from the Grand Canal and San Marco into quiet neighborhoods where there is almost no tourist presence at all.
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@Tom B.
"If you visit Venice in late fall"
Acqua Alta is now appearing in mid-October. A severe flood in Venice is not a fun experience for many tourists. It can seriously disrupt travel plans, and it can be a dangerous hazard to one's health. If a tourist wishes to visit Venice in fall, he/she needs to research Acqua Alta and the smart ways to prepare for such an event.
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We just returned from a longish visit, 12 days, in Venice, which we topped off with a relaxing and beautiful 5 days in Treviso. This article says it all. I loved this ancient and restful city, its rivers and canals coursing through the shopping district. At Toni del Spin, you sit at long tables with people you don't know and sample good home cooking and great vino di casa. Dassie gelato competes with any of the best we had in Venice (the lemon was divine). Venice is a treasure but after the sensory and tourist overload (of which we were two), Treviso was a respite. I think it has the moist beautifully paved streets I have seen anywhere. Not always easy to walk on, particularly the narrow alleys paved with river stones, but the regular streets paved in curved rows of brick added such an elegance to an already elegant city.
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Just to think of the damage to Venice done by tourism and cruise ships, and the environmental toll in general of millions upon millions of travelers. Profit from being a tourist attraction is such a mixed blessing.
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@Jen Yes, it's such a shame, especially since Venice, being islands with limited access routes, is one of the few places it would actually be feasible to limit the number of tourists. Nothing can change the fact that the world has passed Venice by and there's not much real economic activity left, but there are things that could be done to preserve what's left, if the city and national governments cared about their city more than the money.
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The answer is to go in the off-season. I traveled to London, Paris and Italy and never had any lines for anything.
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@Jordan Unfortunately, for some European cities, there aren't nearly no-off season anymore. I went to Amsterdam at the beginning of March and the city was over-crowded with tourists, even in a cold, windy and rainy weather.
I decided to spend a day in the smaller city of Haarlem (20 minutes train ride from Amsterdam) to enjoy some peace and quietness, and it was the most pleasant day of my trip. Although, the museums and architectural attractions in this city are not as rich as in Amsterdam, of course.
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@Jordan You are absolutely correct! During the past several years my wife and I have traveled almost exclusively in late September-early October to such "over toured" places as Paris, Madrid, and Barcelona, and while there are always some other tourists, we never felt overwhelmed or crowded out of anything - OK, maybe the Louvre, but I gather that it's always a bit crazy there - try the Branly Museum of Anthropology.
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@Jordan
Offseason. London is a delight the week before Christmas.
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The problem is that some places are well touristed for a reason. Some time ago, a young friend planning a first trip to Greece said to me, "No, I don't want to visit Delphi. Too many crowds, I hear." How appalling to skip the glory of Delphi.
And while Venice was more crowded than, say, Ravenna in the early 1980s, when I was there, it certainly wasn't mobbed. A short walk beyond San Marco led you to solitude.
I guess I was just lucky to have gone to all the well-touristed places in the decades before the millions and their guides overran them.
For the sake of these cities and sites, though, and not for the sake of tourists, the hordes need to be limited, and sharply.
Some of the tourists are destructive, most probably know nothing about what they're seeing, and the selfie sticks tell us plainly what these trips are about and what the visitors get out of them.
Travel should take us out of ourselves and provide us with an ecstatic experience in the true sense of the word "ecstatic." Evidently that's not the case for the bulk of tourists nowadays.
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@B. I had my grand tour in the 1970’s. Saw it all with a Eurrail pass. Off season on top of it. Many tourists would be just as happy with a video of the place since they scarcely experience anything. Sightseeing via plane over Denali or Grand Canyon is not getting an appreciation of the place. Taking a cruise ship that schedules exciting planned excursions is not experiencing a place. Need to get away from a mentality of 100 places to see before death and bucket lists.
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@B.
Always refreshing to hear from anyone what my experience of travel should be.
The mere existence of a selfie stick tells a story?
Brooklyn, one of the most populous places in the planet. The daily residents of NY are more destructive than any tourists.
I imagine NYers long for the days when NY is as populous and therefore enjoyable as Little Rock.
@B. "A short walk beyond San Marco" still leads you to solitude. On my last visit to Venice in 2015 that still worked at the end of September in glorious weather. All of the outer sestiere, No problem getting a seat and a Spritz at the lively cafe by the Public Gardens to watch the sunset behind San Giorgio. Or bring your own picnic and sit along the waterfront with local families. Giudecca. Lunch without a reservation on Torcello or Burano. Of course, on your first trip you want to see all the classics you've heard of all your life. Go as off-season as you can and put up with the weather, and do all the museums. Crossing the bridges in the snow! And yes, get off the beaten path almost anywhere. My favorite place to spend the summer - family in West Seattle, no crowds, perfect weather, good company. The rest of the year in Europe.
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Overtourism is not only a problem of cities. You should see the crowds in San Andres Island, the third barrier reef in the world. Although I loved the island, its people and their grace in treating tourists, I wondered whether their reefs can resist the impact of so many people in the same spot. It seemed they don't have any control over how many people visit each place a day. Thus, some places - the ones with the easiest access and most attractive - can be damaged and they may have no such beauty in a few years. However the correct number, it is linked to the sustainability of tourism practices and it is rather difficult to measure - but people should try to develop methods and evaluate it year by year.
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@Ademario totally correct. I mean look at Mt. Everest just a week or so ago.
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When I visited Venice a few years, there was ample evidence that the only residents were the very rich who were buying up properties or those speculating / renovating more modest properties for rental income. Our Italian tour guide explained that the average worker reported to their jobs - restaurants, hotels, shops, tourism industry from the mainland via ferry.
The few that do live in Venice is because they are caretakers or staff many of the upscale properties for the owners. The money being poured into Venice properties was insane, expensive construction and rehabilitation of all Venice properties are insanely expensive. The entire overnight population is actually short term tourists and part time owners.
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@Other
Actually a lot of Venice isn't over-wealthy. The rents are a lot more reasonable than, say, Paris or London or New York.
It's just not a big employment center, for a lot of reasons. There's no real business district. There aren't modern office buildings because there's no place to put them. No subway obviously. Venice was of course a huge center for trade and banking but that was centuries ago. Milan and Padua and Torino are more likely to be the places where business deals are made today.
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@Other This is not really true. I travel to Venice every year and have many Venetian friends who are not among the "very rich." Some choose to live in Venice and commute to their jobs on the mainland. Some work there. Others live in Venice because of their deep family attachments, sometimes going back for centuries. Working-class communities survive, despite the difficulties. One only has to look at the recent anti-cruise ship demonstrations to see how hard Venetians are fighting to preserve a sense of community in their often beleaguered city.
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Wonderful article and great advice. My family and I visited Italy and Venice on many weekends during our time in Europe from 1967 to 2004. The advice given and is quite accurate and applicable to to the Venice from 1967. The city was overcrowded and overly touristy so as to make a visit mildly enjoyable. Venice in my view, except for the museums, is a pass through city on your way to the other islands/cities around Venice.
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There are way too many tourists in european cities---the governments need to limit the number by imposing tariffs on hotels and airfares.
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The secret is out, indeed. Treviso is a charming town where locals dominate and tourists are secondary, where you can find many fine local-oriented restaurants. It's just thirty minutes by train to Venice.
The beauty of Venice is indisputable and can only be enjoyed after the cruise ships leave around 5 pm. Then, San Marco Square becomes a different place where you can enjoy the music while sipping your drink and imagining a time when George Sand or Casanova or Katherine Hepburn used to leisurely wander about.
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Katharine.
But that's okay; at least you know her name.
(Note: When I saw "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" with my parents, in a movie theater long ago, I overheard some teenaged girls behind me whispering, "Who is that old woman? She has such beautiful eyes!")
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Tourism should be limited in New York City.
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@Phil New York City is overrated. New Yorkers think the world revolves around them.
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@Phil We are considering congestion pricing .... I hope it is about the tourists, not the cars!!
@Phil Could not agree more. It's outrageously overcrowded, the subway is now a tourist attraction. During rush hour this isn't a good look.
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The author had me until defending the boors. I am a travel-snob, a (mal)lingerer not a tourist. There, I said it.
Those sorts of visitors, in my experience, mostly are checking boxes off a list. In Skye every day they would descend from a bus, have 30 minutes to buy trinkets in Portree’s gift shops, then rush off again. I was shopping myself one day, for a locally knit sweater, and I chatted up a shop keeper after the horde left. She admitted that they most buy the cheaper goods she gets, in bulk, from China. But it keeps her in business for snobs like me. Buy a bagpipe keychain! Hurrah for the horde!
As someone who prefers solitude or socializing with locals, Trevino is just my sort of destination. I travel to places where my countrymen do not go. I never do a comprehensive tour but linger for days in a little town, trying to meet people and see low-key sights when the big ones are packed. If I find myself in London, it is off to see the Woking Martian and eat lunch, not be a sardine in the Tower of London.
In Badajoz Spain, Limerick Ireland, and Cardigan Wales, a local asked politely, “why are you here?” My answer was “because the tourists are not here.” I am glad I saw the Mona Lisa when I did.
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@Peak Oiler I agree with you on all of this. Those of us who are like minded -- the author of this article included -- need to keep quiet about the peaceful spots without the hordes. Tell a like minded friend or two but don't broadcast here -- or on social media!
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@Peak Oiler Pot calling kettle boor. When I lived in Tanzania there would be two types whom I’d meet while trying to relax after worked...the tour group guy excited to see Zanzibar and the enlightened guy who loved how he “connected” with the locals while drinking a Carlsberg. They were both insufferable when you wanted to drink away the hospital shift. Neither left anything meaningful behind for the country other than their bar tab. Same hold a true everywhere. All tourists are rotten. Remember that the next time you think you’ve connected with the Cardigans.
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Maybe don't put that one out there if rampant over-tourism is an issue. The Times has a big reach, and it's getting harder and harder on residents of cities on the tourist map (I speak as a resident of one myself), who are all connected by social media and have money to burn. I don't publish where I shop locally, or where travel to these days because of it. Those that are intrepid or curious enough to find these places on their own are a slim minority compared to the self-stick crowd. Of course, as Evlyn Waugh once said, "The tourist is always the other guy", I still get squeamish at the thought of contributing in any way to this new mass tourism. You want to find an 'authentic' or amazing place to see? Befriend and ask a local in their own language, then keep it to yourself.
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Thank you, Jason! I fell in love with Treviso a few years ago and can't wait to get back. I'm currently in Rome and love the crazy Roman way. But, when I long for Italy I dream of Treviso.
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Treviso is a nice place, but it's not Venice, not even close.
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Like Rick Steeves who single handidly ruined the Cinque Terre and countless other locations around the globe you have probably started the ruination of Treviso.
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@Rich I agree with you entirely! Was going to post the same thing. And then there are others posting here who agree with the author too and then promptly post a list of their own preferred "off the beaten track" spots. We're doomed.
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@Rich My husband and I spent several days in Treviso back in 2014 and at the time we thought this was a hidden gem. I fear you are right about the publication of this article. I would go back in a second but not if they have the same crowds as Venice.
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@beth
We are doomed. Treviso is a provincial town without much to get excited about. Padua has three world-class churches and much else. Besides, the food is better than that of Venice.
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