I guess the children of these elites: Penn, Princeton and NYU! would have matured into a gender-fluid adult, or a Hedge Fund zillionaire or an alt-right neo-nazi pushing conspiracy theories on the internet. Just extrapolating from those simpler times.
2
This article was written by Joyce Maynard, right? As a less-than-six-degrees-of-separation exercise, see the Times' "By the Book" with George Will (May 31, 2019), and apply his comments on "Catcher in the Rye" to "Thirtysomething."
1
@tony maramarco Huh. I read this article and didn't care for it all because I think Mr Will is wrong; the conservatives Do think they have no obligation or reason to be in debt to the things government make possible. But you are right, it works if put it into the light of literary criticism so thanks. It was in The WP by the way, not the Times.
1
This column is lovely and a joy to read in all its very real messiness.
10
. . . another terrific piece by Taffy Brodesser-Akner
7
Thank you for your essay. So well done. My wife and I watched TS while in our early 30s, all the while thinking we were nowhere near as hip as these people. I still remember the “Rashomon” episode long before I even saw Rashomon.
6
I am going to find and listen to my "THIRTYSOMETHING" soundtrack. I remember hearing "She Drives Me Crazy" which became the first CD I purchased and then had to go buy a player. I still have that one too. I loved that show.
3
My wife and were in our later 30s, our elementary school-and daughter in bed, while enjoying Thirtysomething. I always felt that at root the show was a fantasy about adults with young children being able to maintain their friendships with the same intensity and availability they had in their pre-married lives.
13
Just to reassure poor teenage Taffy, with deep empathy, that even as a very date-happy but lonely, insecure Manhattan bachelor, age 33, back in those once-weekly, pre-DVD & streaming days, I was an inveterate watcher/lover of old- t "Thirtysomething." Hated to miss an episode...but completely forgot that Gary had died young. Thanks (?) for the reminder.
7
Just FYI, Taffy: You didn't have to BUY the DVDs. You can rent them from Netflix.
1
Dear Taffy Brodesser-Akner,
What a vivid return to “Thirtysomething” you offer us former fans. While my husband & I were early 40-somethings when the show was on, we absolutely booked that weekly night for Hope, Michael, Nancy, and Elliott and would make no other commitments. (No TiVo or DVR then!)
As I picture myself, eyeballs to the screen back then, on those nights, I feel connected to you: There you were, at the same time, in that dark basement, with the same characters who were in my house.
There you were, a young girl, incubating a writing talent that you did not yet know would become your own story, your own drama, your own career.
I can’t wait to read your forthcoming novel.
6
I was truly moved by the following paragraph in Ms. Brodesser-Akner's article. It was one that resonated deeply with me and one that I felt many of us who were "thirty-somethings" at the time of this show were trying to achieve. We just didn't have it stated or summarized in this manner back then, and maybe didn't fully realize the goals we were trying to achieve. But we were trying to achieve them. The paragraph, since reading it, continues to stay with me. I hope I never forget it as I had strove once to achieve all therein. But, life moved forward and so did the world around me, shifting gears and causing me to do so too. Thank you Ms. Brodesser-Akner for your gift of this paragraph. Yes, my once, American Dream.
"Because here were characters who could teach me something. Here was a social class I could aspire toward. I wanted so badly to be just like them: middle-class, comfortable, seen, loved, career-driven, relationship-driven, tortured by tiny things but overall a good, upstanding yuppie trying to navigate her place between her idealistic values and what the world demanded of her. This was my American dream."
5
In reading Ms. Brodesser-Akner's piece on "My Guide To Marriage A TV Classic," I thought that one episode that should have been touched upon, although it did not speak to the Thirty Something portrait of women and family for this period, was the Holiday Special when Michael Stedman meets the ghost of "Chirstmas Past." It was at a time when Michael was working for his nemesis Miles at the latter's ad firm. It seemed that Miles was cutting staff at holiday time as business was shrinking. The ghost, Miles' former partner, said that if Miles had true talent he would do what Michael was trying to do, i.e. protect the staff in a hard time.
As the review said, there were times when the show had episodes with great insight.
5
Well, I'm in tears and have sent this to my daughter. Divorce, just an incident in my life, a lifetime of sadness for the kids. Wow!
3
thanks for leaving that start up and giving us this writing.....
6
For the record, Elliot and Nancy never divorced. When it came time to sign the divorce papers, each of them decided at the last second to drop their pen, leave the signature line blank and stay married.
5
I am 56 and my parents’ (middle class Jews) divorce when I was 4 is a chronic condition. I never saw him again but found out in 2000 that he died 1997. So, no answers, only the closure of knowing I’ll never get any. I struggle a lot, still, about why I never got over it.
This is a perfect turn of phrase...chronic condition.....
6
I thought your article would remind me of watching Thirtysomething with my mother, one of our favorite rituals. What I remember most is watching my mother watch the show. I'd take note of what made her laugh, made her cry, what she "mmm-hmm"-ed with in agreement. Adult life, particularly my parents', was a mystery to me. I watched the show and my mother like an anthropologist.
I found them all so ridiculous.
The only cool character was Melissa, whom I decided I would be: a quirky artist in a cool loft. Who'd want to be Hope or Nancy or my mom with their crushed dreams and selfish husbands? After a long, eventful Melissa period at 43 I'm folding toddler socks and struggling to talk to my husband about something other than preschool. Maybe the show wasn't too far off?
10
Marriage is a consensual relationship, but the terms of the consent don’t necessarily remain constant. They require endless reappraisal, renegotiation, and reaffirmation. That process can, and often does, involve radical departure from the original terms, and very often that departure isn’t felt or understood mutually. That, inevitably, causes pain
In this sense, pain is the essence of the human condition, because to be human is to involve oneself constantly in a web of consensual relationships, some of which may be only barely consensual. No matter, though, because the mechanics are similiar, and regardless of the terms or even the degree to which the relationship is consensual, when one person in a relationship views the fundamentals differently, pain is likely to occur.
Emotional pain is the price humans pay for investing in relationships with other humans, and it is inescapable. Sometimes it isn’t devastating, but it is, at the very least, a reliable undercurrent of possibility.
Yet, we generally, though not consistently nor easily, manage to sort something out most of the time. There is no exact formula that magically eases or erases the pain, but somehow, usually involving time, we end up past it. We are changed, of course, but still on our feet, feeling chagrined or embarrassed or angry or whatever, but still on our feet.
It is the price of being human, and for most of us it winds up being a price we are willing to pay.
9
I am and will always be a thirtysomething fan. I did not watch the show as it aired, but discovered the Lifetime reruns when I was on maternity leave with my first child. I love everything about the show, the writing, the characters, the cinematography, the music, the stories, the changes the characters went through, the whole deal. I am confused by critics who call thirtysomething characters, whiney and wimpy. Isn't DRAMA supposed to include tensions, controversy and difficulties? Personally, I related to some, but not all of the issues in the show but enjoyed the series non-the-less. I am of similar age and I am African American. So there! I purchased the complete series on DVD and have recently enjoyed re-watching while I work in my studio. There is commentary and discussion by the creators before some of the later seasons, which has been interesting to hear. I will have to reread this article because I'm not sure I understand Taffy Brodesser-Akner's attitudes about the show. But the fact that she is writing about it almost 30 years later is pretty significant to me.
6
Taffy just keeps nailing it. e: divorce, People magazine ran an article years ago that documented that most children, indeed, never get over divorce.
I tell friends that everything I learned about PHILADELPHIA, I learned from Thirtysomething. Even best friends there didn’t “confide” easily with each other, while in the San Francisco Bay Area we were telling strangers in the grocery line our most intimate thoughts.
But of course, “Thirtysomething isn’t about Hope and Michael, et al, it’s about Herscovitz & Zwick. The women were all written by men. And this was during the women’s movement, yet!
6
Beautifully written, poignant, meaningful, smart piece. Thank you.
10
I think, although I am not certain, that I read once that part of the reason "thirtysomething" isn't streamed is because of music rights. It was one of the first series to imbed popular music throughout.
I loved the show; still do. I have one season on DVD. Haven't looked in awhile to see if they added more, but it sounds like they might have.
1
Why can't we watch Thirtysomething anywhere? Does anyone know the story of why its not on Netflix, etc?
5
I love Taffy's writing, and this piece, but most of all I love Taffy-and-Claude, the unfurling of their sometimes-romance and always-family.
8
Loved the show. I remember how shocked and saddened I was by Gary's unexpected death.
The death of a major character in a show was very new then, it may even have been a first. Usually a character just disappeared or the actor was replaced by another actor with no explanation, as if we wouldn't notice...
9
I am not Susan but her husband.
I glanced down over some comments. A phrase stuck out.
"Self-congratulatory."
Come on, guys. Get off it.
Funny! I never saw "Thirty Something" in my life. I knew nothing about it. Who was in it. What went on. Anything.
But now I know. Thank you, Ms. Brodessor-Akner. That was illuminating.
And your upcoming novel which was supposed to be about marriage--is all about divorce.
Ms. Brodessor-Akner, I have been married forty years. Forty one years in three days.
And I think I relate to every word in your piece. Let me be frank:
Your piece (in many ways) is about failure. Failure to love people. Failure to care about people. Failure to sacrifice yourself for other people--including the people you're married to.
I have failed personally in every one of these ways. We're told in the New Testament (Presbyterian speaking here) that we husbands are to love our wives "as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her."
A line that petrifies me with horror. I have never even come close. Not in forty years. Soon to be forty one.
Which is why your ending was so moving and appropriate. Yes. Right now--the sun is shining. Right now--let's forget the miserable past. The ominous, cloudy future.
Let's rejoice in the sunshine of this present moment. Right now! Right now! Thank you, Lord.
And God bless you, Ms. Brodessor-Akner. And hey!
I wish your novel the best.
The very best.
21
@Susan Fitzwater
Dear Susan's husband:
I wonder if your wife is as hard on you as you are in your assessment of yourself as a husband? Unless you've only just now had a major epiphany, you sound sensitive and insightful. In any case, it's wonderful that you can now be the husband you want to be.
3
"Good girls don't use condoms" - anyone get stuck on that line? Good grief.
6
So this turns out to be a self-congratulatory piece about how the author has a sustaining marriage, which has affection and goodness, unlike all those divorced people who are traumatizing their kids.
awesome.
6
@SN Why do you assume that divorce produces traumatized kids? In many cases (my own included) a split up can have a positive impact on children. It evacuates them from an often hostile environment. It enables each parent to focus on being a better parent and role model without the distraction of battling each other. It provides the opportunity to heal the relationship between the parents so they can focus on raising their children cooperatively.
13
@Jerry
I *don't* assume this! But the author writes in this vein, in a way that I think is likely to cast guilt on divorcing parents. E.g:
>
It was because of the trauma of my parents’ divorce — our divorce, my and my sisters’ divorce, the horrible thing that happened to me and to us that I should be over and somehow I am not. God, how pathetic I am. How broken I am. How pathetic I am.
At dinner, my children asked me what was wrong. I told them I had just watched something sad but that I was O.K. My husband reached across the table, took my hand and kissed it. My sons made kissy noises and my reaction was not jovial or light. I hissed at them, like a snake, something primal and reptilian and disgusted rising up in me. I never saw my parents kiss once. I never saw them hold hands. I don’t remember a moment of sentiment over their daughters or our accomplishments that caused them to look at each other warmly. My children have seen us kiss. They’ve seen us fight, and make up...
>
That's why I find the piece self-congratulatory. The punchline is about how cohesive and healthy her marriage is, as opposed to, say, a broken home like the one shown on Thirtysomething. Of course, a lot of writing in this style works this way (Modern Love anyone?): How Well I Did Everything, Despite Obstacles Along the Way.
2
@SN I had the same reaction as you did, SN. I'm sorry she feels she has been permanently damaged, irrevocably "broken" by her parents' divorce, but her representation of her parents' marriage suggests that it was a very unhappy one. (Had they stayed married, she may also have felt herself to be permanently damaged; she seems eager to blame them for her trauma.) She frames her marriage as a success, in contrast to her parents' failure.
4
Loved this show. I enjoyed every episode and was sad when it was cancelled. Loved Patricia Wetting’s acting.
7
TBA is best writer at the NYT. Her novel will likely take her away from the paper, from me. Another kind of divorce. Ugh.
8
Does no one else think it was a (brilliant) satire?
1
Wow this essay is a perfect mimic of a 30something episode - starts off callow and self-involved but sucks you in - ends up building to the killer moment and making you cry. Well done.
15
@Mary
Someone sharing a difficult, perhaps even traumatic, childhood is callow and self-involved? Really?!
2
What I said was that at the beginning she purposely starts out with a flippant tone - like the acoustic guitar plucking - yes. It’s a great device.
6
Well, I can tell you that extreme binging can make you feel crazy, and I imagine even more so if you’ve just finished writing an emotionally draining novel. Not the same thing, and with no similar childhood trauma relived, but I just finished binging all three seasons of Deadwood to prepare for the movie and I don’t feel fit to be in normal society (I’m laid up on crutches, so feel I have an excuse—and that doesn’t help, either). It was weird to rewatch a show I had loved so much. Thirteen years was a long time ago, though not so long ago as thirtysomething—I still love the show but was surprised to find some of the story arcs annoying and superfluous, and why did Jane, Mose and Steve always have to shout their dialogue? Aaaanyways, though I don’t relate to the trauma part of this essay, I must say it was shocking to me to realize that I actually WAS in my thirties when thirtysomething was on. I had to do some math to verify it. Because I was single and gainfully employed, I could only really relate to Ellyn. I think I even had a similar haircut. But it was something different in the TV era before cable and streaming. Back then, the few quality dramas like Hill Street Blues weren’t about ordinary people. It was innovative and quintessentially baby-boomer. With all the good cables and streaming options, I now find very little of interest on network TV. I wonder how the writing on thirtysomething would hold up after The Sopranos, The Wire, etc. Might check it out on YouTube.
1
I hated this damn show, but kept watching. Why? No clue! Maybe because it was the thing to discuss the next day.
But I ended up, unintentionally, becoming invested until I wasn’t. Fine acting and writing, but there comes a point...
After Gary’s death (so beautifully sad), I was done.
And ok with the whole experience.
1
At the time, newspapers and magazines referred to the show as "thirtysomething," lower case, as it appeared in the credits & promotional materials.
13
Thanks so much for this. I cried and cried at the same episodes you did, especially the one with Ethan and Elliot. right on the money with my experience, both of the show (which I also watched in reruns on Lifetime) but the divorce parts, as well. I'm only a few years older than you, but it's oddly comforting to know you may have been watching and feeling with me at around the same time.
2
Tears. Feeling all the feels. Thank you.
6
Hope and Janey were dancing to "Needles and Pins."
3
@Maureen
The old song by the Searchers? Don’t think so. It was something by Van Morrison. Very thirtysomething.
The demographic lesson here is baby boomers were compensated "kid money" in their late 20's. Gen. X and Y late 30's. Millennials??? Now you see why birth rates are in a nose dive.
1
I was a teen as well when I fell in love with 30 Something. My mother HATED that show and said they all needed to get over themselves if they think normal things that happen are this hard. But I loved it, because I hadn't experienced much of anything yet and homework was still devastating. I wonder now if I watched it would I view it as she did.
3
@Melanie My mother watched one episode while visiting me and could not understand why Hope and Michael's house was such a mess when Hope was home all day.
As a mom of young kids, I couldn't figure out how to explain the emotional labor that came with being a "good parent" in our era and how exhausting it was. Or that we danced with our babies instead of putting them in a playpen so we could vaccuum.
4
I was in my thirties, slightly younger than the TS characters, when it came out. I remember it was criticized at the time for being "whiny" and about yuppies. I was not technically a yuppy (too poor and not so interested in status), but I shared the educational and upper middle-class background of the characters. I even went to college near Philly. TS was the only TV show I'd ever seen that remotely resonated with me. I did not understand why it was called "whiny"; to me the characters were simply vocalizing their struggles with topics that were usually off-limits in the programs of that time. And the struggles were not trivial. There was infidelity, divorce, lost jobs, illnesses, difficulty with parents' expectations, and more. Just because the characters were white and financially comfortable does not make the stories of their lives an inappropriate topic for *ONE* TV show, amid the sit com dreck and formulaic detective / police dramas of the time. I'm not sure whether I exactly learned anything from the show, but I appreciated the chance to watch smart, funny near-peers try to make sense of their lives. And, as others have commented, the overriding sense of friendship was a balm. Reading this article makes me want to re-watch it and see what I think from the other side of marriage and parenthood.
31
I thought the series went off the rails after the first season and the reason I watched intermittently thereafter was for David Clennon as Miles Drentell. Also Elliott drove me up the wall, I thought he was a big baby and could not figure out how super cool Nancy put up with him, I guess the creators thought the same thing so they made her super whiny in the later seasons.
2
@Elaine Lynch Miles was a stellar character.
2
Awwww! I had forgotten Thirtysomething, a show full of characters I would never have the house, money or education to be. I was a struggling new mom, in a marriage with no instructions, no money and no family support.
I really appreciate your perspective on your own parents divorce as a child. I think it's a good opportunity to talk to my now adult daughters about what they were feeling when my marriage fell apart.
Thank you for writing and sharing this.
7
I’m about the same age as this writer, and to me, watching as a kid, the show depicted adulthood and especially parenthood as humiliating and dully painful. The humor of the show seemed like this thin layer to make its depiction of that humiliation and emptiness a little more appetizing, maybe even fashionable. But I loved the show too. I binge watched a bunch of it when I was about to turn thirty. I love the houses, how lived-in everything looks. It was a warmup to the real Herskovitz/Zwick masterpiece, My So-Called Life, which I loved so much I almost felt I had lived it. Both shows have that warmed suburban realism, but in mscl there’s more hope, excitement, uncertainty.
8
@L That "My So-Called Life" did not have more than one season is one of the great tragedies of our time. I watched it with my teen daughters and they identified with Angela while I identified with her mother. We learned a lot about each other.
5
This takes me back. I kind of enjoyed this show. I also referred to it as Whiny White Boys and Their Wimpy Wives.
5
I can so relate to this. My family suddenly became Orthodox Jewish for my brother's sake when I was 15 and I was expected to follow blindly, which I didn't. My dad couldn't fathom why I wouldn't suddenly and radically remodel my entire life! Unsurprisingly, it caused a lot of needless suffering and pushed me even farther away from my faith, which is non-existent today. Ironically, my brother is about as religious today as I am.
3
I watched the show as a twentysomething and found it by turns poignant and irritating. I don't remember the characters' names but one couple, the woman had a hysterectomy and her husband was super angry and pressuring her for sex that she no longer wanted to give. That was relatable.
I felt it was a white yuppie show, with white yuppie concerns. The fact that I was also a white aspiring yuppie only made me more annoyed with the mirror that it held up to my own life.
6
La Law. St. Else where. Are the 80's back in vogue? Maddonna?
1
Lordy God you write better than anyone breathing.
26
I agree. I was reading it wondering who IS this and then at the end I thought, oh, of course.
5
I only watched a couple of episodes of thirtysomething growing up, but I can certainly relate to this essay. The crushing nostalgia for a past that was never actually that much better, and the faded pop-culture mementos of youth that are often not very good, if we're being perfectly honest, when viewed in the harsh light of the here and now. The profound sense that we lost something growing up, when perhaps we're yearning after something that was denied us to begin with.
5
TS first aired my freshman year in college and lasted until I graduated. It was my guidebook in young adulthood and I couldn’t wait to get out into the real world and live a life like one of its characters. Nancy’s cancer storyline was one of the best episodic storylines produced for television and I still cry when watching it play out in Season 3 on YT. But Thirtysomething was also about the quieter moments too. When Ellen’s prominent, Main Line parents decide to divorce late in life, I can still remember the advice her mother gave to her: “Marry a quiet, sensitive man. He will hold you in the middle of the night and dry your tears.” Those little gems of brilliant writing are what made this show so special for me. I hope Netflix or Amazon streams it soon...
15
@TTO I barely watched this show, but I remember that scene as well! The way she tries to explain to Ellen how she got so caught up in the excitement of her relationship with her husband that she focused on the wrong things...I just remember, her saying something like "dancing with your father, I felt like I was flying..." I've thought of it many times over the years in my dating life.
6
Right - “I married the good dancer” - brilliant!
4
@Mary Just got goosebumps!
1
I was 28 when "thirtysomething" began, and the divorced mother of a three-year-old. Though I often found the show mopey and solipsistic, I enjoyed its depictions of domestic life and, I confess, the fact that one of the characters shared my name. Nine years later, I found myself standing next to Mel Harris while our sons played softball. Because the boys were classmates and close friends, I saw her often during their school years. How often did we talk about "thirtysomething"? Not once.
3
@Hope Anderson What did she go on to do with her life after the show?
I am your Doppelganger. I was 16 when 30something came out and I devoured it! Still one of my top 5 favorite TV shows. Been watching it through the years and every time I earn a new perspective on the characters' point of view. You understand them better as you grow older. Thank you for this article!
1
This piece, like pretty much everything by this author, is beautifully written. However, I think there is a lot of subtext in this that doesn't get explained. For example, what were her relationships with her parents? Why her mother's sudden adoption of radically restrictive religious practices? Did she even see her father? Instead, I think the one event of her parents' divorce is the container for all her blame and anger. I will never say that divorce is not painful and life-changing for children, but this author's "chronic condition" as the child of divorce seems to be putting all her adult struggles into a single event, rather than the thousands of smaller events that accompanied it and its fallout. I love this author, but I think the implications of this piece are that divorce is a cruel, almost abusive act to inflict on your children -- which is untrue and for those of us in difficult marriages, troubling. Divorce, when handled in a way that puts the children's well-being at the forefront, does not have to be the permanent scar on children's psyche. I think to suggest otherwise is telling people they should stay in a miserable marriage "for the children," which can cause its own set of damages to children. The takeaway? Nobody gets out of childhood undamaged, and it's best that we as parents love and guide our children so that that damage doesn't define their lives. It sounds like the author's parents failed to do that, whether they stayed married or not.
13
I wonder if any of the "kids" depicted on Thirtysomething would have turned out to be gender-nonconforming as they grew up - and how the "parents" would have handled that.
3
I watched this show religiously -- for me the fixation was about the social and geographical aspirations of a girl from Kansas. I stumbled on a replay of an episode somewhere in the last few years. Utterly unwatchable.
It could be a lovely sociology-course illustration of "entitlement" and "privilege" for white people, though, LOL.
3
I watched this show as a married mother (of one) who was working about a thousand hours a week. As such, I enjoyed condescending to Hope, that whiner, while envying her and Michael their house. Every week I mentally advised Hope to go get a job, because that would fix everything (eventually she did, but it didn't). Now I hope that this story and the outpouring of response to it inspires some streaming service to make this show available again. Netflix, make it happen! We can't all buy a dvd player and expense it to the new york times.
6
Taffy is one of the best writers in our America right now. Everything she tackles just magnifies this truth. Her humor, insight into the furthest reaches of human behavior, her stylistic choices - man oh man she's good. I'm in awe of her talent and wisdom and look forward to her novel or anything else she cares to publish.
BTW: TS was "my show" back in the day (I was 28 when it began) and I sorta suspected it didn't age well (ugh - those 80's fashions!), so I won't be re-watching. I would, however, like Taffy's take on Northern Exposure. That show replaced TS as my lodestar.
13
Claude sounds like a keeper.
12
I wonder if Michael and Hope ever finished their kitchen remodel?
12
I loved this show, so much, and would love to see it streaming someplace. It sounds crazy, but I think of the characters often-ish. I look forward to reading Taffy’s new book, and would love to see TS steaming someday soon. ABC, are you listening?!?!
5
What if "Married with Children" had been the show she secretly watched as a teen?
8
Lowercase "t": "thirtysomething"
Just sayin'.
9
I remember watching Thirty Something when I was in my late 40's. I also remember thinking they were all very privileged and yet they constantly whined about everything. I've never seen such a bunch of whiners.
About a year ago, I discovered I could watch it again on YouTube and did so. I still thought the acting was good as well as the writing, but now, in my early 70's, I found them to be even more immature and whiny. SO much naval gazing!
I did happen to see Mel Harris a couple of years ago on Martha's Vineyard. We were in the same small shop. She looked so familiar to me - couldn't figure out why. When I re-watched Thirty Something, I suddenly realized that was who it was! I have to say that she has aged a LOT better than I have - she looked very much still the same. Damn...
10
The time spent raising a baby goes by quickly when it's over. It seems like forever and then it's over and you realise it was only a brief moment.
People sit behind their work desks for decades.
12
@Anthony Flack
So you took time off from working to be home with your child?
That's great to hear.
2
"Basically, you need to buy the DVDs. Once you have the DVDs, you may realize that you haven’t used DVDs in a very long time and that you have to buy a DVD player too."
Well now, this is why some of us have been reluctant to abandon physical media. Because when you want to come back and look at something thirty years later, IT'S STILL THERE.
If all you do is stream, then you are completely at the mercy of the content provider's whim. Don't come crying to me when your childhood goes offline.
16
Michael was always the most interesting character to me, because so much of his character arc included his work life.
2
I was an early-40 something when I watched it, in the process of getting divorced and working long hours. Am not sure I saw all of it as I worked late a lot, but I thought it was interesting, though it did make me grateful I didn't have that type of life. One reason why it stands out in my mind is that it was one of the last shows I watched on network TV. I also remember "China Beach" for the same reason. Just stopped watching around then, am not sure exactly why except maybe it was just getting boring, and never really resumed watching, though did catch up with bits and pieces of some "hits" on reruns or DVDs (West Wing, Seinfeld).
3
Disappointing that she didn't mention the blatant misogyny of the show, which was used as a quintessential example of '80s antifeminism in Susan Faludi's "Backlash." But then again the writer was raised in a Yeshiva under Orthodox Judaism, so I suppose it's understandable. But anyone interested (and I recommend that everyone be interested) should read through those pages in Faludi's book. Enlightening. I was in college when TS was on and watched it religiously, but I always had a love/hate relationship with the show. On feminist grounds, and because I hated the glorification of the yuppie ethos (let's not forget this generation of self-absorbed yuppies are the same people who pretty much wrecked the world). Have to admit that when Gary died it was like a cannonball had shot right through my belly. Devastating.
11
@RLL: As far as I can tell, EVERY generation has been identified as being the one that "pretty much wrecked the world."
Go back as far as you like with that analogy and you'll see that I'm right - and then ponder the future adults (many of them not yet born) who will say the same about your generation in due course!
8
Was referring specifically to the Wall Street financial crisis, neoliberalism, grotesque inequality, climate change, etc. And as far as I know, my gen (Gen X) has thus far not been accused of destroying the world, nearly to the degree boomers have. Not attacking any individual, just mass trends.
6
@RLL: If your generation has not yet been called out for "destroying the world," then, as Hamilton says in the musical: "Just you wait!" Because if you live long enough, it WILL happen, trust me!
4
I remember, at the time, hearing on NPR somebody describing the show as "the whining white people show." I laughed out loud, and could never stomach watching it again. Even though it was revolutionary television, with its focus on the small moments and the inherent drama they hold - but it was still TV very much of its time.
9
...and ken olin continues his career in those small moments as an EP and occasional director of "this is us." similar theme, new era. so if you want to know about thirtysomething and can't find the dvds, watch "this is us."
10
Yes, a beautiful piece of writing. I was the same age as the characters (and my sons are 30-something now), and it was a miserable show, because it was unrealistic watching it as a married 30-something, just like "Father Knows Best" was as a child, nothing like my family. Then, as a newly single dad with my kids asleep, I sought more hopeful late night companionship from the VCR: Fellini, The Godfather, Casablanca, opera. And now those kids have grown into dads and husbands themselves, with lives much more interesting than "30-something". And this piece reminded me of the nostalgia I have for all the other deeper things that were never represented on TV.
10
That was a very difficult piece to read, albeit brilliantly written. I used to love Thirtysomething although my life was absolutely nothing like any of the characters'. Perhaps that's why I loved it. I still remember the shock of Gary's death , or when he couldn't afford the expensive restaurant with the others. I have always wanted to re-watch it but after reading your article, I know I can't do that.
I got divorced 2 years ago and like Gary's death, it seemed to come totally out of the blue. I look at my teenage daughters and wonder what is being implanted in them from this time and how it will affect their future. It's devastating for me to read you describe it as a "chronic condition". I try to make up for it by being a father who is completely there with them but I think no matter what I do, I have left them with the sadness you describe and that causes me a lot of pain.
121
The fact that you are fretting about your daughters' well-being demonstrates that your daughters will not have the same issues as the author. It doesn't sound, from this piece, that her parents (at least her mom) didn't think much of their children @weugene
6
@weugene As the daughter of divorced parents, I can tell you what to look out for. Nurture your children, reach out to them as often as possible, they may not always respond but at least they know you are there. Set-up a regular conference call or playdate so they can look forward to seeing you one on one. Keep them healthy and active and busy. Encourage them to join sports teams and clubs, so they can feel more confident, learn how to work within a team, and have healthy role models. Be watchful of family conflict it may distract them and allow them to be drift into unhealthy peer relationships, thoughts, and actions. Wait years before bringing someone new into the mix no child should have to complete for your attention, resources, and time. Be honest about the marriage and don't lie. Some opportunistic relative may spill the beans decades down the road and destroy all your carefully laid plans. My parents marriage was shaky from the start marked by poor communication, immaturity, and narcissist behavior. The divorce did not improve things it just made my parents weaknesses more pronounced. Divorce is not a reset button, it's a journey, try to focus on the positive. Remember the only thing you really leave behind for your children is memories, clearly those memories count.
11
Thank you for this wonderful piece. My wife and I were actual 30-somethings when we watched 30-Something, although on the surface we had little in common with the characters. Sure we remember with joy the Fine Young Cannibals episode ("Elliot and Nancy might get back together!"), and we will never forget the episode Gary died (entirely out of the blue, no media spoilers during those days, totally devastating). Also, the writing class episode with the broken watch; that was one of the best pieces of television before or since. But for us there was something else we went back for every week, something where we DID feel a kinship with the characters, or at least a longing for it. We were going through a difficult time with some long-standing relationships, and what we saw in 30-Something was a group of people who had FRIENDS. Whatever problems they had, large or small, every episode clearly showed people who spent time together, understood each other, were there for each other (usually) or were sad when they weren't. We so wanted to have those friends.
Life of course got better, but we will always think of 30-Something as a lifeline for us, to characters who were the opposite of us in almost every way but were nevertheless a beautiful example of what life with friends could be.
131
@Michael Ando: Point well made - and then later the TV series "FRIENDS" came along to purportedly show what life would be like with friends but without the marriage & parenthood angst.
6
I started reading this article because I loved Thirty Something when it aired. I was in college, and my friends and I would gather around the t.v. to watch this show as if our lives depended upon it. I ached to be Hope. And the fashions! I still have a pair of earrings i think of as my "Hope earrings."
But I will buy and read your book for this sentence: " I was trying to understand what had happened to me, this definitional thing that was an event in my parents’ lives, but a chronic condition for their daughters. " That is a sentiment I have been reaching for, but never quite able to say, all of my life.
Thank you for beautiful writing.
202
@Renee
The words that affected me from this well written essay were " As if you're ever safe". Brought me to tears. No truer words. Beautiful
writing. Thank You
29
I too loved TS and was 29 in ‘87 so was just on the threshold of being in my 30’s. I would be curious to see how my perspective has changed since then and now considering watching some of the episodes again . One thing about flannel. When I was in high school I got my first flannel shirt. Up until that time flannel shirts were off limits for girls and considered men’s wear. My mother was flabbergasted that I was wearing men’s clothing but I think I convinced her of its practicality and usefulness. It kept me warm in cold Indiana winters. How far we have come!!
20
Girls I knew certainly wore flannel shirts in the late ‘60s and well into the ‘70s. Maybe it was a regional thing. But I’m from NY area and went to college in Michigan - flannel shirts everywhere. Warm, durable and affordable. Looked good with jeans.
1
You read this sentence: "But the flannel was the real star of the show" and you know unless you're already a fan looking to have your likes confirmed. this essay will serve no real purpose.
1
I watched this (for me) thoroughly dislikeable show religiously, the way one might keep checking a closet to see if that bad smell is still there. After dozens of episodes I figured out there was only one theme to the show: apology. Everybody had to apologize to everybody for miscrocopic misdemeanors. When the boss at the agency stole a kiss from his date, all hell broke loose. There was one truly funny moment, when the red-head (Timothy something?) got to direct a commercial, and was showing a black actor how to do a 'hood walk.
2
Thought provoking article and well-written, but I got caught up with the out-of-nowhere leap from "Thirtysomething was a show from my childhood that made me feel nostaligic" to "divoce is bad." What?
That show was a soap opera--mostly superficial, with a few moments of depth. Kind of like most marriage: most are awful to watch, live through, witness, as a kid, a partner or a friend. Too many folks feel societal pressure to marry, wallow in misery or fakeness, and then white knuckle through staying together or divorcing. Neither is the right, or wrong choice, for them or the kids. It's complicated and nuanced.
Your childhood sounds like it sucked - but so did it for a ton of kids with married parents. I think the goal should be to try to respect that some folks need to be coupled (rather than presume them to be co-dependent, or insecure and needy, or sheep), other folks find strength from independence or multiple relationships (rather than presume him/her to be lonely or a loner, or solitary, or flaky, or a player), and others are somewhere in the middle. That's the beauty. You are doing great and so is every divorced person! It's exactly what Thirtysomething did not get - the complexity or nuance - but it's still a sort of fun show to watch, I guess, or discuss and forget about.
P.S. I have never seen a real life example of Hope - the housewife. Thank goodness.
6
You have never seen a stay-at-home mom? Sometimes it’s all about the balance in the family. Sometimes women take career breaks or couple childrearing with civic, school or other volunteerism. And -gasp! - sometimes fathers and nonparents take career breaks!
5
@Just the Facts - Oh sorry, I should have been more clear. I have definitely seen too many of a stay at home mom or dad. But no one that resembles the weird fantasy of Hope: dutiful, waiting for her husband, loving her life, fulfilled from being at home and respected. It was either stay at home moms popping pills and pretending to smile, between housecleaners or themselves cleaning/cooking, or ones who weren't even faking it and resented it. Their kids gave them no respect, and they were resentful of their relationships and their absence of meaning outside the home.
I just meant it is some sort of perfect ideal, that doesn't exist, and frankly, I wouldn't want it too.
4
@Just the Facts Pretty sure they were referring to the cartoon-cut-out quality that the character Hope embodied, not the simple sociological fact of being a housewife.
The life and the people described in Thirtysomething are long gone. Born in 1953, we full on babyboomer women here in STL lived that show. We were proud to be stay at home moms. We weren't stupid though, and our daughters were raised to take on careers. Thirtysomething shows values and mores and a generation's ideals that aren't around anymore. Watching it is like digging up a dinosaur.
4
I was in college when this show was on, and I tried watching it. I don't think I even got through one episode; it seemed to me these people were always sitting around in the dark moping, plus I was too young to relate to it. Michael and Nancy were married in real life, which threw the young me. Now I know they were *acting* and could be someone else's spouse on a TV show. P.S. Please, NYT, have Taffy Brodesser-Akner write every article in the paper. She is amazing.
8
taffy is the best writer working today. period.
9
Could not stand the show.
Premiered just as I was getting married.
I was 25 and hadn’t yet heard the expression “navel gazing” but I wonder if the phrase was born because of this insipid, self-absorbed, first-world-problems show.
6
I also loved Thirtysomething when I was a teen. Taffy. But now I recognize it's not because they were so adult, it was because they were the beginning of the extended adolescence that many adults live in nowadays. They were so unlike my parents, so I thought they were cool. My parents did a lot of unfun stuff without complaining, and rarely thought of putting themselves first.
Now a fortysomething also, I still love the characters in Thirtysomething, but know they are nothing like real adult life, where you sit around talking about yourself with your friends all the time. The story line with the Nancy/Elliot divorce was probably the most real to me as well. And yes, I felt their getting back together was a bit of a copout.
7
Never saw the series, love the essay!
The last paragraph is so great. The amazing Steven Stosny suggested that when the angst is difficult, do one or more of the following:
Appreciate
Protect
Improve
Connect
The first and last ones in particular help me so much...and connecting woman to man, is just about doing something together. It is that simple. Going for a walk together...
You got it, in that last paragraph!
6
I loved "thirtysomething." I was in college in Philadelphia in 1987 and hoping to find a job in advertising. Dropped everything to watch it every week. It felt like a peek into what life as an adult would be like. In high school, I remember feeling like I had nothing in common with actual adults and their relationships. But somehow, I could relate/aspire to the thirtysomething characters just a few years later, aspects of each of them, anyway. I suppose it was also dawning on me that my college friendships/relationships could continue after graduation, and I loved their camaraderie through life's ups and downs on the show.
5
I was a Thirty-something junkie while in my 30s. My spouse at the time couldn't understand how I could sit through hour after hour of all that unmitigated angst. 'Why are they always complaining all the time? I think their lives are pretty good. It's like watching a Ingmar Bergman film for yuppies.' I wasn't as much into the domestic scenes as the struggles Michael and Eliot had at work, particularly trying to outmaneuver their boss and nemesis Miles Drentell, (who I actually resembled). Now into my 60s,I think enough time has passed for another viewing. I can't wait to re-relish when Miles gets his comeuppance.
10
@Scott: Bingo!! That series WAS Ingmar Bergman for yuppies"!
I remember thinking that I *never* wanted to be in a relationship like ANY of those portrayed on the show, nor did I want to have a drippy life with a drippy spouse.
I wonder how many marriages that show may have prevented!
3
In 1987 I was 34 years old. Now I'm 66. There is one line from Thirtysomething that I will never forget and I have used numerous times over the years. In an episode where Hope's mother comes for an extended visit and Hope is trying to deal with her resentment towards her mother, Michael tells her "The statute of limitations for parental war crimes has passed." I only saw that episode once when it aired, but I have never forgotten that line.
50
@IDWall - same! And long ago shared it with my own mother, and then she started quoting it.
1
I had to read this because I too watched Thirysomething as a teenager. As I read taffy's warm and inviting prose, it all came back - even the opening music of the show with its punchy guitar riff. As a kid, I was drawn to the show by the marital relationships, but even more so by the friendships between the couples. It's what I hoped adult life would be like. Thanks for the stroll down memory lane. For me, it was a happy one.
18
We were living in California for my husband's job. I had no friends or family near me. I gave birth to my first (only) child in the first season of Thirty Something. I was 35. She was colicky. Watching the show was my safe space. The one hour a week I felt I was in the company of understanding peers. I adored Hope. I thought she was the most genuine, put-together mom. Rarely does a tv series impact my life. Thirty Something did.
26
My goodness, what a lovely article and deep meditation on divorce, family, and self. My experience parallels this and you have so meticulously laid this out I feel safe at every corner. Thank you. And may I add--for an updated experience please view "My So-Called Life" and "Once and Again." These all too brief TV shows by the same creative team drew water from the same well
29
@jackzfun Loved both of those shows. I was so sad when Once and Again was cancelled.
4
I was 30-something during 30-Something. The thing I remember about it was how taken I was with the idea of a group relationship where the individuals all felt that the group relationship was beneficial and worth maintaining. I don't recall any of the individual episodes, but I remember liking it. I also remember being relieved when it ended, because, same old, same old, just like in real life.
5
I am so grateful for this article because for a long time I felt as though I was the only one who remembered the series and was affected by it. It came out when I was in my late 20s mid-way through grad school. "These aren't your friends!" my male housemate told me but the characters sort of were.
After grad school I worked in an office of women who were in their mid-'30s with young children and we dissected every episode. I, as the lone single with professional ambition, often defended Ellyn but all of us scorned Hope. As a long-time working woman I'm still fascinated by women who can simply expect that their husbands will work to support them while they weave in and out of the labor force when it suits them.
I think of the items endlessly covered in the media today: transgender rights, autistic children, opiate epidemics, sweeping mental health diagnoses, rampant homelessness -- all of which existed in the late 1980s -- but were barely on the radar when Thirtysomething aired. And to think liberals feared George H.W. Bush! We didn't think life was easy then but wow, thinking of the show today it makes me think I came of age in a much simpler time.
19
My husband and I were the target demographic in 1987, but we could not identify with this show or its annoying characters. I was home with 3 children under the age of 3 while my husband worked 10 hour days. We survived by finding solutions where we could and not complaining about the rest. And now we have 3 wonderful grandchildren.
6
Warm, funny, honest, wrenching, well-written. Looking forward to your novel!
8
Michael's vintage Volvo 1800 ES was the real star of the show. Interestingly, he never let Mope drive it.
14
@Pat K
"Mope".....funny!!
5
Thirtysomething. How I loved that show. I rejoiced, agonized, grieved, laughed and loved right along with them. I can remember sobbing on the phone with a gay male friend on the night that Gary was killed. I identified with Melissa and Ellen, had a crush on Michael, envied their strong circle of friendship. It was my go-to, never-miss show.
Decades later, my much younger husband and I discovered a “Season One” at a flea market. “Oh, wow!” I gushed. “We HAVE to get this. You will love it!” About fifteen minutes into the first episode, my husband said, “Turn it off. I can’t abide these people.” He said they were “whiny.” I was stunned. I can’t remember feeling more separate and apart from my husband. It was a total disconnect. He ordered me the entire series on Amazon so that I could binge-watch the whole thing when I was by myself.
What I absorbed from Thirtysomething was that relationships are hard. They take time, attention, focus and work. I think that those learnings help me in my marriage now, actually. And, it’s ok that my husband doesn’t “get” Thirtysomething. I still love him to pieces.
58
@Kathryn I like your hubby.
9
I absolutely hated that show. To me it symbolized the epitome of entitlement. a bunch of people in their 30s, quite well off, well educated, and all they did was complain that their needs were not being met. In fact my boyfriend at the time and I used to joke about how our knees weren't being met.
14
Oh wow. This is beautiful. Thank you.
10
I remember that TV show and how whiny the guys always were and how joyless everybody seemed. And, if Taffy is so bummed about her parents, why does she use her parents' last name--'Brodesser'--in her hyphenated last name? A constant reminder of how bad childhood was? Sort of odd.
7
@Cody McCall As a woman, I'll chime in here. I don't think one's surname is just about one's parents...it's more linked to our identity than that, and some of us choose to hang on to it after we marry.
3
If ever there was a television show more odious than this one I am not aware of it.
8
To each is own is all I say.
3
I found some of the guys so sexy
4
Oh how I loved this essay. It had everything from the misery of child-rearing to why some bits of culture become landmark to us to the how and why we make art of any kind. It was personal, rich, meaningful and of course funny. I cried, like I did as a teen watching 30 Something, but this time it was for something profound from the mind and heart of a real woman.
6
When the show came out I was working at an ad agency. I watched it because I got a kick out of comparing how their advertising world worked vs what I saw at my real life work (occasionally spot on, mostly off the mark IMO). I hardly noticed the relationship dynamics, although I did relate a bit to Hope because I had given up some career stuff to accommodate my husband’s less flexible career, far less graciously. I wonder what I would see if I watched it now?
Good article!
6
I liked this piece. I also enjoyed the first 2 or so seasons of thirtysomething, which was high quality, innovative TV in the late 80's. Also nice watching something cool and new and more honest than usual about my generation.
My parents divorced when I was about 2. My father was a wife-beater; my mom decided she wasn't going to tolerate it. Even though I went through years of custody battles and two homes and step-parents...I never for a moment felt like my mom made the wrong decision. Often divorce is good. I just need to add my life experience to the mosaic of truth on that topic.
23
Wonderful read; loved your writing. Your name is on my read list now; look forward to the book.
10
I think we have greatly underestimated the damage so much divorce has caused our society. Love is an action verb and to keep it alive requires a sustained use of the will. Making your marriage work is as important to your kids as getting them vaccinated. It helps them and their community. We should all be doing more to help keep families strong. Just like vaccinations, it benefits all of us.
18
@Working mom The reality is that often love dies and marriages frequently fail for a variety of reasons. I question whether you can "make your marriage work" if it is failing. If both partners want to improve a failing marriage then maybe they can "make it work." But so often there is basic incompatibility or betrayal and the marriage can't be salvaged. Maybe marriage is a flawed proposition that just doesn't have the same kind of usefulness it once did.
8
@maya Like cancer, by the time the system is failing it's too late. That's the point. This isn't a judgement, just advice from somebody who has been through a lot in 35 years of marriage to anyone reading for whom it's not too late. Get help at the first sign of discomfort. And if you aren't married, don't get married without good marriage prep. Like measles, nobody is naturally immune. And like measles, it's often comes from someplace nobody is expecting. But we must not give up on the institute of marriage. Divorce is too traumatizing to kids.
8
@Working mom
This is a wise comment. By the time the system is failing it is too late. Get help early, at the first sign of discomfort.
Sometimes people do not realize how huge their discomfort is, and instead are given anti-depressants. These hold them into a dysfunctional system.
It is best to try to discern a serious problem as early as possible, and then see if there is a solution. There may be, or there may be a basic incompatibility that is impossible to work out because, well, the people are not compatible in a marriage.
It is best to do it before having kids. But if the couple has kids, it is best to do it and decide to divorce if that incompatibility is there.
Incompatibilities are nagging depression causers that lead to a sad life.
Incompatibilities are not "differences" they are things that will never change and cause endless strife or irritation, because one or both people cannot be themselves, and in order to be themselves, they have to be separate. And then, what is the point of being married?
5
This is a wonderful piece. I especially enjoyed the line "Hope, his conservative, judgmental stay-at-home wife..."
I hated Hope because I was crazy jealous of her. I was also in my early 30s, married, with young kids--and I watched this show.
But I had to go to work every day at a job I didn't like. We were always struggling for money. The stress was sky high.
Hope reminded me of all the friends and relatives my age in great houses driving Volvos and complaining about being bored while they stayed home with their kids-a situation I would have loved at the time.
Thanks again for this wonderful piece. I look forward to your book!
29
@Talbot I chuckled a bit when I read your line about "driving Volvos." I loved the show, but one of my office mates sneeringly referred to it as "an hour long ad for Volvos".
14
Great read.
Can't say I remember the details of the show, but i watched it religiously when it first aired.
OTOH, Taffy, curious what became of that Orthodox Flatbush girl (at least you were allowed to watch TV) now that she's a woman.
4
My wife and I were 32, college educated, had two young children, had just moved into our first home, and I was starting a new job in mid-Michigan when Thirtysomething went on the air. We watched the series religiously, but could not identify with the characters or their lives. To us, the show's characters were simply too whiny. Plus, they overthought and over-discussed every little issue. UGH! We wondered if there was something wrong with us - and our friends, as we did not express angst or have existential conversations relating to our jobs, remodeling projects, or three-year old's birthday party. But, we never missed an episode. And, the series led to a habit that I repeat to this day. Gary's unexpected death WAS a punch in the gut. Thirty years later, I never fail to look in the rearview mirror when stopped at a light on a declining hilly street.
16
30something was my favorite show back in the day, and lamenting why it's now syndicated somewhere. Taffy, this is genius storytelling.
Congrats on your book - I've been a fan since your first NYT story, and am #4 on hold when my local library gets it.
8
Whenever I click on random, unsuspecting piece on the NYT and find myself moved, (to tears or laughter), I spot Taffy's name at the bottom.
It has usually been long enough since I read her last piece that I'd forgotten about this causality (again)-- and sure enough.... just as I'm processing my tears finishing the piece-- "Taffy." And I burst out laughing. You got me again, you beautiful, marvelous writer. Thank you.
24
@W. LB. I am 100% with you. That last paragraph is a stunner.
3
Many people give Game of Thrones credit for trailblazing the concept that main characters can be killed off. I always give the credit to Thirtysomething. I still haven't gotten over Gary's death.
21
@VVV03, I had read a spoiler and knew it was going to happen...but when it did, when Michael took that phone call, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Horrible.
2
@VVV03// M*A*S*H killed off Colonel Blake in 1975. Not sure if there were others.
5
This has to be one of the best essays I've read in quite some time, so thank you very much for sharing your talent!
I was a naval officer assigned to a destroyer home ported in San Diego when "thirtysomething" aired. I was 28 and beginning to realize that I was gay, so marriage was out of the question for me. "thirtysomething" was a welcome escape, and even though I'm a black man, I could totally get where the main characters were coming from. Whether it was Michael fantasizing about being a point guard for the Philadelphia 76rs, or Hope having a miscarriage, the acting and writing always made for an enjoyable hour of television. The show also helped ease the ache of loneliness and fear I felt while serving in uniform and knowing that I could be tossed out if my sexuality were discovered.
45
@Chris I had the exact same experience as you as a Black man in the military at that time, but as an Air Force officer. I never missed an episode of thirtysomething.
9
I hate to ply my trade, as I have appropriate complaints about it, but this writer would CHERISH a good psychoanalysis!
5
@LRR That she came to write a book about divorce by attempting to write about marriage seems like she's on the right track. Not sure her employer would cover the costs of treatment - unless of course it turned into an assignment!
1
I watched Thirtysomething at the end of my first marriage and the beginning of a new relationship and now a 25 year old second marriage. My first husband hated and refused to watch it; my second and I while we were dating spoke after each episode and both were blown away and cried when Gary died. I knew THIS was the right guy.
What's also interesting and ironic, is she and I both come from divorced families when very young. You are absolutely right - it's there with you the rest of your life - plays out in so many little ways (perhaps a new, for me, Sixtysomething?)
I knew in the back of my mind I was not marrying the right guy the first time, (my mother even insultingly said he reminded her of my father which scared the hell out of me),fought hard to hold onto it longer than I should've of, must confess I loved my post-marriage single life in terms of finding myself and loving my time with kids and friends again, but truly cherish this second marriage.
We have been through a rough 30 years - of my ex-husband, family health issues and deaths. But we have been an amazing united couple (of course we've had our spats) but committed and more in love today than ever.
Thanks for a great review of our common issues.
11
Thanks for this piece. Reminded me how as an immigrant I worked hard for that house, that picket fence, smart, beautiful partner, caring mother, friends, creative career! The American dream. Sorry, forget it.
3
Miles Drentell:
"Nobody wants to be unpopular. That's why we're here. That's the dance of advertising. We help people become popular. Through popularity comes acceptance. Acceptance leads to assimilation. Assimilation leads to bliss. We calm & reassure. We embrace people with the message that we are all in it together. That our leaders are infallible and there's nothing, absolutely nothing wrong. That's what we do. It's what we've always done... In return for our humanitarian service, we are made rich."
From an universe far, far away, an epitaph for this very minute in time.
28
@tom from jersey Yes. Thanks. Miles Drentell was a great invention, brilliantly played by David Clennon. They really knew how to write for him. And don't forget the slick slime Karl Draconis, played by Stanley Tucci. Two indelible indictments of the American Business world.
9
This essay is really about childhood grief which not everyone experiences. Since my father's death, I've carried that kind of grief with me for 54 years and long ago realized it never goes away, it only changes and softens.
The other day, a relative was "downsizing" and discovered a Kodak snapshot he thought I'd like to have, a faded black and white picture of 9 year old me kneeling behind my father's tombstone. I vaguely remember posing for it. The grief became hard again. I must remember he had good intentions.
I wasn't into "30 Something." For me it was "The Waltons." I was looking for a "normal" family.
9
Wow. I loved this essay. It is beautiful, heartbreaking, hopeful, true. As I started to read it, I expected that I would be commenting about "thirtysomething," a favorite show in my personal history, which I watched as a 20something in order to see my single life validated and -- like the author -- learn about the marriage and partnership I hoped to find some day. As I read, I started arguing in my head with her conclusions about the characters and their story arcs. But then I thought...I haven't watched this show in 30something years. She's probably right and I'd probably have a whole host of surprising reactions were I to watch it again myself.
And then the essay moved in a surprising way, just as she was surprised by her sudden grief while watching the show. By the end, this essay had affected me just as the show's episodes often did: I felt seen and understood for what I feel inside, while some small aspect of life had been illuminated for me from the outside.
19
As a big fan of the show when it first aired(I was, at that time, just entering my thirties and my professional life was just taking off, I was Jewish, from the East Coast, so I could identify) I think you have written about it, and your life, beautifully. I'm frustrated at how it is not available to stream episodes when I'm in the mood(don't have the dvd's), because this show is very much for me an "in the mood" watch. In any event, thanks very much for your essay. I'll be looking for your book.
7
Loved the series, and over my twenty years of marriage, find myself recalling glimpses of TS, but more so the small moments of affection between characters Michael and Hope, desperateness of Elliot, and constant concern and puppy eyes from Ellen, etc. Its been a long time since I heard the name Miles, though successfully avoided superiors with his swag in my career. I will eventually watch the series again, maybe when my kids are the age I started watching and anticipate we'll interpret differently. Nonetheless, I do recall some hair raising moments, but most fondly, lots of wood framed homes, small cramped kitchens and khaki pants.
3
Loved this essay, I will look for your book.
7
Never watched the show, just wanted to read why & how on earth, it could teach her "something". Taffy delivered her lesson so well, I'm going to look for "Fleishman Is in Trouble".
1
I knew this was by Taffy Brodesser-Akner before I even clicked on the full article because *she gets me*. I think my adult personality is probably 65% informed by the character of Melissa, and that is said not having re-watched this show as a forty-something, I just feel it.
6
I watched it as 20 in my first under-furnished apartment on Bank Street with its view of the Trade towers on a tiny black-and-white tv on the floor (see: underfurnished). It struck such a chord with me even as I felt exactly the opposite of the author: I wanted no part of this flannel, domestic life. I wanted to be a happier Ellyn (and I think I am) and bed the "Nordic wolf"...
Always wondered why I couldn't find reruns. Guess I have to buy the DVDs and a DVD machine...
14
@Orange Soda--love that you call it a "dvd machine..." we older Boomers called them "dvd players." It doesn't matter--just dates us all, doesn't it?
5
Wait until you are fifty something :)
18
@D Collazo
Try. 70 something. Still learning.
7
@cheryl I've always taken advice from the 'pros' :) It's worked out.
1
It's a shame that this show is not streaming anywhere, e.g. Netflix. It is fantastic TV.
11
Lots of reference to Gary episode which was a literal punch in the gut. Michael receives the news while on a pay phone (responding to a pager msg, would our kids even get that?); he's elated because they've all heard good news about Nancy's surgery; he doubles over, clutching his gut. I remember each of their reactions, their "small moments" of gutpunch: Elliot sobbing in the men's room stall, knowing he prayed so hard negotiating with God for Nancy's recovery; Hope's stunned face; and Melissa, from across the parking lot as Michael gives her the info: you can't see her face and yet her body language screams anguish (and you can tell she is screaming, but you can't hear her). It was actually great tv.
54
And in the background as Michael gets the news on the hallway cell phone, the child’s balloon floating up to the ceiling. One of the best (in terms of shocking out of nowhere, like real life) moments in television.
15
@in love with the process
It also inspired one of the most memorable newspaper headlines I've ever seen, aimed at the many fans of the series had been breathlessly awaiting Nancy's "second look" surgery outcome:
"Nancy OK. Gary KO-d"
10
I was also into this show as a teen...but I think it made me turn the other way! Watching Boomer Yuppies date, marry and have kids was boring and scary at the same time. Plus, some of these same types were my bosses when I got out of college and to say that they were particularly jerky to GenXers would be an understatement. So...I happily dated and stayed single till my early 40s, never wanted kids. Irony= I married a Boomer. But we're still having fun!
3
About a year ago or so, all of thirtysomething was on either hulu or netflix. I remembered loving it as a teen. Watching it as an adult, however, I couldn't get past S1 E1. It was dripping with sexism and misogyny. Michael was so incredibly self-important and so condescending to Hope, I couldn't watch anymore.
7
@Mare
One of the side effects of being an older more experienced woman is that I now know that misogyny underlies every single bit of our culture.
This seems even more true now than decades ago because now it is motivated by active hatred, rather than cultural apathy.
Thirtysomething, I loved as a young adult, though even then the narcissism of the characters made it absurd, but I agree, to watch it now, I'd probably simmer with rage.
7
When I was a teen and early 20's watching, I wanted to have what Hope had, but after a while she bored me. It was Melissa, in the end, who resonated with me most, and whose character I still remember the most. Melissa --creative, sensitive, lonely, scared, a misfit even in the circle of friends--I couldn't wait to see her on screen. Remember her cool apartment in the warehouse or garage, or whatever it was? I think I cried with relief when it was revealed how her life will eventually turn out--happy!
20
This is great, FUNNY writing!
"I’m generally so nostalgic I could think back on a mugging with affection"
LMAO
10
Magnificent essay. Beautifully observed and written.
When Taffy B-A’s writing appears in The Times I drop everything. Her writing recalls the wit of Nora Ephron and the depth of Joan Didion.
I had to capture a screen shot of the description of fashion so I could read it over and over. (Hope’s coat makes her look like a burrito!)
Can’t wait to read the novel.
8
ANYBODY OUT THERE curious about reading Wikipedia tales about the major actors of THIRTYSOMETHING? Go ahead! I won’t spoil it for you, but I already see you AS WELL AS the author of this fine article, smiling big time!!!
2
Yeah well, I aspired to be the ruthless Miles Drentell. One of the great characters in television history.
21
I would spell "thirtysomething" without a capital T.
11
We watched Thirtysomething in real time to our stage in life and the characters lives often resembled our own. No-one seems to have been affected by Miles Drentell, Davis Clennon's uber-powerful supremely confident boss who sucked up Elliot and Michael's struggling business. The character was so intriguing that Clennon played Drentell again in another series, Once and Again.
He was a reminder that Thirtysomething was also a heightened reality with more than a touch of parody lobbed into the foibles of the time—like Hope and Michael's perpetually in-renovation house. But, he also caught the exact note of entitlement and disdain that I experienced then from real agency bigwigs—and who, unlike Thirtysomething, remain as annoying today as he was then. Only now, they are heads of tech start-ups.
22
@SilverSpringer I do recall that. The breakfast nook was always under construction!
3
No need for me to jump in on how good the writing is in this essay. I watched THIRTYSOMETHING in my late forties and loved it. There is an episode addressing the fear, dread, and anxiety that the Ken Olin character feels about his inability to come up with a good ad campaign. He shows the work in progress to Hope and the look on her face is perfect. Here is a loving wife who is torn between wanting to be supportive and knowing the work is crap. She also seems to be having a sudden moment of doubt about the abilities of her spouse. What will happen if his chosen career cannot support the family? Should she be honest or lie to buck him up in the hope that this failure is a one-off? That look has stayed with me ever since.
22
I loathed the series "Thirtysomething". I called it "WhineySomething" because of all those insufferable, white, entitled, self-absorbed a-holes complaining and being irresponsible at 30-something and who were people I wouldn't spend :2 with let alone an hour each week (I probably saw 6 episodes over the years out of boredom and nothing else was on!). Nothing about it was realistic, and the men were people I'd walk 10 miles to avoid. I do love Ms. Brodesser-Akner's writing style and look forward to reading her book. She is spot on in regard to the ways in which we may be finished with the past but the past is not finished with us. As the poet said about parents, "They F*ck you up with the best intentions". Amen to that, and look forward to reading more of this writer's work.
8
I was a late 20-something when Thirtysomething first aired. At that time I was in law school, so I didn't have much time to watch TV and don't remember much about the show other than its artful use of music ("Tupelo Honey", "She Drives Me Crazy", and "Come Rain or Come Shine"). I also remember that Thirtysomething was something of a cultural obsession for many of my educated, UMC, white (and mostly women) friends. I'm still not sure why that was -- the characters seemed a little too predictable and flat and . . . white.
I'm also surprised by the antipathy toward Hope as a SAHM. Didn't the show end with her taking a job in Washington (on the Hill or maybe with an environmental NGO?) and Michael leaving his job to become a trailing spouse and perhaps primary caregiver for their child(ren)? That career arc of full-time work before children, SAH during early childrearing years, followed by return to work is pretty common among many married women -- and a few men -- my age whose financial circumstances made it possible for the family to live on a single income. (Something that very few of our children will be able to swing as they become parents.)
So, for you Thirtysomething fans, where do you think Hope, Michael and the rest of the gang would be today as Sixtysomethings?
6
@Alex I didn't have much exposure to popular music when I was growing up, so one of my first playlists was comprised of the music from thirtysomething. Melissa's references to artists were also a jumping off point for me. I can still quote Melissa (quoting Ansel Adams to Gary): "Always remember the moon is a sunlit object. Expose accordingly."
4
@Alex: I imagine they'd still be whiny and kvetching, and probably now obsessed with statins, bone density, Botox and facial fillers.
2
And “Gary is a moonlit object.”
1
I don't know that I'd call Hope "conservative". She may have been more apt than the other characters to want things a certain way, but she was a former hippie-ish type who was working on some environmental project later in the series. Maybe somewhat personally conservative, but not politically so.
22
@Shelly,
Yes, I recall her having some scathing remarks about GHW Bush. None of the characters were politically conservative in the least.
10
@Patricia Maybe Miles, Michael's evil boss.
2
I'm a child of divorce, I got a divorce and I watched "thirtysomething" back in the day. Somehow, I survived it all and I'm doing OK.
5
Beautiful writing. I, too, saw this as aspirational when I watched it as a teen in college.
One thing that is overlooked when talking about Gen X is how badly our parents handled divorce. My parents moved on happily with new spouses, while the 3 of us suffered with being the go-betweens, yelled at for not being on 'their' side, spending our graduations and weddings trying to keep the two of them apart and happy. Their selfishness was, and is, astonishing.
My ex and I divorced 5 years ago, but any disagreements are kept away from the kids. We celebrate holidays and other events together, with his new wife included, and our kids have no need to 'deal' with their divorced parents the way we had to.
46
@ED My childhood friends and I recently discussed how parenting was different for us in the 60s and 70s than for our children. We came to the conclusion that our parents didn't raise us. They provided.
23
@Liza And now we're all in therapy, lol.
Here's a perfect example of how things have changed: I remember being on a vacation with my parents in 1980, when I was 10 and my siblings 11 and 7. They left us alone in the room so they could go get drinks in the bar. If something had happened to us, WE the kids would have been in trouble. If we tried to pull that today with our kids and something happened, WE the parents would be in trouble. What happened?
17
Still think every once in a while about the episode in which Elliott and Michael are on the plane and it certainly seems likely it’s goin’ down. I was a married mom of 1 when this ran, but I had no use for Hope or the other female characters. They had not much to “teach” me. I wanted to know how the Michael & Elliott Company could possibly launch and stay aloft. Or if it did.
3
I watched this show and remember moments, though I have no desire to relive it. But one thing that gnaws at me now is the story line about Nancy's ovarian cancer. In a show that focused to some degree on the religious backgrounds of its characters, why did the writers choose to give ovarian cancer to a non-Jewish character? Of course Jews and non-Jews alike get ovarian cancer, but Ashkenazi Jews are particularly predisposed to be carriers of the BRCA gene that is a direct risk for OC. Maybe this was not as widely known at the time - certainly the BRCA gene was not, but I imagine the increased incidence in Jewish populations was known. As a BRCA gene carrier who lost a grandmother to OC and knows it's a gene and risk I may have passed on to my own daughter, I wish now, looking back, that the OC story line had been with a Jewish character and with discussion of hereditary risk.
1
But why should TV characters experience only what is likelier for the ethnic group they belong to?
6
@polymath To make it as honest a portrayal as possible? Also, in this day and age, anyone who has OC would immediately be looking for hereditary links, and would be concerned as to what she might have passed on to her daughter. I don't recall that ever being addressed.
1
@Susi While having Melissa's character experiencing cancer might "make it as honest portrayal as possible," I doubt that anyone outside of medical or Jewish populations would know this information. I was born, raised, and live in metro Detroit with a Jewish population of @ 90,000. Your posting is the first time that I have heard the term Ashkenazi or about the predisposition to cancer. Had Melissa experienced cancer on the series, most Americans would have thought, "Poor Melissa!" rather than, "Poor Nancy!" - without the network posting a "predisposed genetic trait" clarifier on the screen. Not finding fault with your post. Just offering a possible explanation.
3
It would be impossible for me to express how much I relate to this article. I had those same late nights watching alone yearning for normalcy. Thank you for giving me so much to think about and relate to.
Now I have to rewatch and read your book. Your writing is beautiful!
8
I mainly remember all the unfinished drywall. No wonder Hope was in a perpetual funk!
22
With the recent rash of '90s TV reboots (indicating that I'm not the only one nostalgic for life before the internet), I had rather wistfully hoped for "fiftysomething" if only to see if Michael (still wearing those iconic suspenders?) was still haunted by Gary's ghost. And how Ellyn's marriage to the cartoonist was working out. Or at least "thirtysomething: the next generation," with Those Whining Millennials taking the place of Those Whining Yuppies. The real genius of "thirtysomething" was that, however pretentious it got sometimes, it avoided the blatant self-congratulation of "Modern Family."
19
@Hans Christian Brando I love the idea but the characters were "thirtysomething" in 1987. They would actually be "sixtysomething" today! Maybe Michael wears his suspenders while obsessively manicuring his lawn and chairing his condo association meetings.
3
@Hans Christian Brando I'd love to see if Ethan, Brittany, Janey, Leo, Emma and Melissa's future kid with Lee became a clique a la their parents.
5
I cannot add much to what has already been said about this piece except, "Wow!" Sigh, another book to add to my "Want To Read" list. Thank you.
9
Great commentary. This show started in my sophomore year of college and finished shortly after I graduated.
I, too, watched searching for what a marriage and family might look like. I came from a verbally and physically abusive family -- both parents participating: my siblings and I wished they'd get a divorce. I cut ties in my junior year of college, and never looked back.
My soon-to-be husband and I watched every Tuesday night without fail. I loved all the characters. When the opportunity to purchase the DVD's came up a few years ago, I bought them all.
We just celebrated our 27th anniversary, and our children are now 25 and 19; they've watched with me and laughed at how the character's clothes are the ones they are coveting now!
We've had great discussions about how motherhood is bittersweet and how our culture hasn't changed much in terms of supporting women staying at home while also wanting professional challenge.
They both laugh when they see where expressions they've heard since they were little originated:
'My baby, my job; my baby, my job!'
'Philadelphia, where it all began. Philadelphia, where it can begin again. Today'.
'A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do, and a mans gotta sell floor wax'.
Thanks for the essay.
20
When Thirtysomething premiered I was on the cusp of turning 40. Still despite the generational difference (albeit by just a few years - I always assumed the Steadmans and Co. were Generation Jones - later baby boomers who would come to identify more with Gen X than with the early boomers) - I thought it was one of the most misogynist TV shows at the time. Then, around the same time, lo and behold Seinfeld premiers - and Elaine Benes could kick any of Thirtysomething's adult characters to the curb. I'm sure there's a doctoral thesis (or two, or many) talking about misogyny on Thirtysomething. Time passes, and yet another new generation has admirable, powerful woman on shows like Homeland and The Americans. Never liked Hope Steadman, could not understand her choices as a late baby boomer - but the creators of this show made us hate her. And Michael. Witness the Chanukah episode where the couple struggle with being an interfaith family. Sisters, Once and Again - there were good, strong women on TV at this time. But until first decade into the new century, no-one could top Elaine Benes.
8
I will be the killjoy here. At the urging of colleagues my wife and I sampled Thirty Something when it originally aired. As professionals in our thirties we were told "this is our lives". We found the show unwatchable. The constant angst in no way reflected our lives. The portions we watched were utterly joyless and we soon quit watching.
Similarly, we watched "This Is Us" for the first season and loved the show. As it changed into a drama of torturing the characters, we quit watching it, too. Life is not filled with such constant for most most people and anxiety is not generally entertaining.
All that said, the article was well written and thought provoking.
17
I always tell people I'm not a baby boomer because they canceled Thirtysomething the year I turned Thirty.
14
Great piece, but I remember watching the show because I thought Michael was so cute.
23
Taffy - Your piece totally hits home. It is therapeutic to read and know someone else had a similar process for relating to their informative years and the trauma of divorce. For me the show is ER. Thanks for putting your experience and thoughts to 'paper'.
9
The author may or may not be delighted to know it’s still called Flatbush. A lot has changed, but the name hasn’t.
7
"The thing about small moments is that if you are trained to recognize them, they will kill you dead every time."
So true. I love reading Taffy's writing.
17
"..in what was called Flatbush at the time and has probably been renamed something fancy" kept me going. Then, "burrito costume" made me do a spit take. This writer must be the love child of Nora Ephron and David Sedaris. I need more of Taffy Brodesser-Akner's writing.
26
apart from being an infomercial about your upcoming book, it's hard to believe that anyone would base anything on a relatively short-lived series about a group of spoiled, entitled kids feigning anxiety and depression at everything they have. If the show did anything, other than lull viewers to sleep with it's meandering Guitar music, it did provide a showcase of proto-millenniums. If the show was worth anything, it was as a warning of what was worse to come.
The same can be said of it's sequel by some of the same people involved in "Thirtysomething", the dysfunctional family of "This is Us".
9
I always thought there were more ENLIGHTENING episodes a woman could relate to then THIRTYSOMETHING! Like BIG AND KERRY from SEX AND THE CITY?! Seriously. I have followed their real life as I live in NYC and have seen them both with their REAL spouses and wondered what THEY took home from their fabricated reality and if it helps them or sustains them in their ‘real-life’ relationships. Seeing BIG IN THE PLAY MOTHER was a hoot! I do believe that the photographer in THIRTYSOMETHING was the only woman who was realistically modeled for me, as I became an artist... I must ask my son who is in his 40’s for his views;)) Honestly? He was bigger on MAD ANOUT YOU AND SEINFELD...and all of us as a family of immigrants from ISRAEL in the 50’s laughed and still do, with LUCY!:))))))))))) cheers!
1
@Ruth B, I think when you referred to the TV show Sex & the City, you meant to say BIG and CARRIE (not KERRY). Cheers!
I love your honest, clear writing. Thank you.
12
I recall the episode where it was date night and Michael and Hope went to the movies. They failed to plan well though and they ended up at a theater showing a 3 hour documentary on the Holocaust. It was funny to watch their date night go south so fast. Now-a-days no TV show would dare make fun of a Holocaust movie.
17
Watching the show (alone, naturally) in my thirties made me recognize how miserable my marriage was. I saw so much of my husband’s behavior in Elliott; the narcissism, the self-important careerism, the high emotion, aggression and greed. It made me sad to watch it, but I did because it was so true to life. I divorced and was so glad I didn’t have kids with him.
40
You don't think religion makes school any more terrible than a secular school would be? Brainwashing, banned books, ubiquitous sexism, lack of science education...I could go on and on.
12
I wish you’d done the Madonna interview instead.
5
Thank you for this essay, as heartbreaking as it is -- and even though it has made me ache for my sons. I am divorced, the result of my ex-husband's affair and decision to leave our family. The divorce left me and my children blindsided and with gaping wounds. Society - really, everyone -- says the kids will be fine, but I know them and I know better. They will be ok, but the divorce and it's painful, messy aftermath will also bring a longterm sadness into their lives that didn't exist before. Thank you for recognizing the trauma of divorce in an era when we're expected to accept it as normal and people truly believe that the "kids will be better off."
14
@MaisyL--Remember--it's not your fault. It takes two people to make a happy marriage but it only takes one to leave and destroy it. I had to learn that things were not my fault and you will go on and someone else may fill that void and be much better for you and for your children. Trust me. It can get better. I empathize with your feelings though--and remember them well, even 25 years later.
4
@Eva Lockhart Thank you for your kind words and empathy.
2
Boy, Ms. Brodesser-Akner--can you ever write!
I loved this piece. I loved "Thirtysomething," which aired when I was thirtysomething and when Yuppies were scorned by the people in my (more sophisticated, more progressive) world. I couldn't help it. I was totally sucked into those small moments, which were completely overlooked in series like "Dallas," also popular at the time. I loved flannel too.
It was so interesting to read about the series in the context of your upbringing. I'm gonna buy your novel!
10
This is the first article I read in the nytimes this morning. An article about that incredible show. What memories it brought back. I was a new mom in my 40s with other "older" moms and in a baby support group with some of them. We all watched it and dissected it too. Loved reading the comments. What I want to contribute is how much I love shows like Thirtysomething. Shows where you get to really know the characters and follow a story. Another show I loved was Parenthood. Shows rightly or wrongly follow characters, develop them and last an hour. So many silly sitcoms. Now I'm watching This is Us. And yes I am definitely getting her book. Exquisite writing. Thank you for this article.
11
Thank you for this. Incredible writing that hits home for me on so many levels. As a 45 year old child of divorce, I also grew up watching 30something as some type of guide for future life. Now as a parent with 15 years of marriage, I realize how much the divorce continues to affect me and my family relationships. I've found the key is to be aware of how my past affects my present, accept it, and then do my best to move on and focus on the small moments. Thanks again for sharing.
12
I watched the show religiously because I was almost 30 something and a new parent. My husband said it was like the writers (at least the Hope and Michael part) were living in our house. A few things I will always remember. Hope showing up with a VHS of Sesame Street when most of us were just discovering this childcare gem. Nancy telling judgemental Hope that someday your husband will do or say something that will shake you to the core. The only difference between them is that it hadn’t happened to Hope yet. And Gary dying. OMG. If you could have seen all of us young moms at the park the next day. It was like we were talking about someone we truly all knew in real life. Thanks for this essay. Beautifully written. Great memories.
26
Such fine writing! And so many episodes from our AMERICAN LIFESTYLES that come together to reflect as well as inform our mad lives in the city! One can’t help but do an invisible ‘checklist’ of how things went up and down in our own homemade dramas... I was thinking, like the author of this fine article, how one’s own life can be impacted by a parents bad trip, regardless of those who would have advised that ‘staying together’ would have been so much better ‘for the kids’ So much depends on each person’s arc and emotional DNA! My folks parted after 34 yrs of marriage, and I like to believe it was because of their own daughter’s ‘civil’ friendly and mature parting... to model after...Had they parted when I was 10 it would have been an ENTIRELY different life to process! I would choose LUCY for TV DRAMAS:)) thanks!
4
This is trivial, but just this morning as I was getting dressed for work (I'm a VP now), I was reminiscing about my Girbaud jeans.
13
@Armando Suave I loved my Girbaud jeans!
5
@Armando Suave
My favorites - I wonder if they are somewhere up in the attic . . .
I watched this show religiously from late high school into early college. I wanted to be Hope with her pretty house, husband, baby, and name. I wanted to be Hope, a thing of feathers, of wishes, of dreams. I wanted to be Hope before I knew who I was, and I escaped that hope without even noticing until I read this article. I traveled the world after college, joined the Peace Corps, taught English in Hong Kong, got married to an Irishman at 40, and adopted a rescue pup at 46. No, not Hope, but better, so much better for me. Thanks for this essay inspiring my own waltz down memory lane.
80
@Jennifer O'Sullivan Similar- I got married about 8 years ago, at 42 and rescued a dog! I do feel like my life was better for me.
8
@atb Yeah, what do we know until we go out and do. And here's to rescue pups!
8
I was an avid thirty-something watcher when I was a thirty-something mother of three small children. The characters seemed absolutely real to me and they were struggling with some of the same challenges that I was facing as a woman, wife, mother. My main goal was to raise happy, creative children, and to figure out how to stay married so that they wouldn't be traumatized by divorce. That show was one of the therapeutic sources for me that helped me make it through those maritally-challenging years.
Divorce is a trauma to children and you have captured its essence in your beautiful essay.
41
Another tour de force from Ms. Brodesser-Akner! I loved this piece. One thing that jumped from the article to my soul was the implicit statement about childhood, that none of us passes through it unscathed. We never get over it. We grow up, move on and if we’re resilient enough, turn our sadnesses into something better for our partners and children.
64
This essay resonated with me, but not because I share the experience or the trauma, although I vividly remember watching 30 Something when I was 30 something. What strikes me is the author's dawning recognition that we spend our lives processing all the relationships we've had, all the experiences we've been through. Family is never done; our childhoods are never left behind. But what does happen, if we're patient, lucky and paying attention, is a kind of enlightenment and the beginnings of wisdom as we continue to examine and integrate the people and experiences that have brought us to where we stand at any given moment.
112
I just wanted to say that this was one of the most entertaining--- and well-written--- pieces I've read in the Times in quite a while. As other posters have noted, you are an extremely talented writer and a shrewd, incisive observer of yourself and others.
And funny too!
As someone struggling to finish a first novel, I also took solace in the thought that it can, in fact, be done. Thanks for that.
I look forward to reading the book. Best of luck in all your future projects!
62
Great Essay! Thank You
My wife and I were thirty-somes when the show played. We watched it regularly but at arms length; on one hand it was just a bit too white to get too attached to (like Friends), but on the other we both had traumas to wrestle with that the show simply piled on top of.
My folks had emotionally detached from each other sometime around my birth. Took them 18 years to separate and get divorced. The trauma in the show was constantly part of my life and constantly examined. Hopefully your discovery of the trauma late in life will put you on a positive path.
My Mother died a couple of weeks ago and I discovered a letter my Father had sent her just before he attempted suicide. The flood of emotions and memories returned me to a time I had mostly gotten past. The late discovery of your divorce trauma resonated.
I’m left wondering about your sister and how she fared over the years. My brother and I handled our situation differently. But the most outstanding thing is that we grew and stayed apart like childhood friends who outgrew each other at puberty.
19
My wife and I were avid watchers of Thirtysomething, in our late 20's/early 30's. In early 91 we moved to Seattle, and she was back east taking care of business while I was in the new rental house watching the episode in which Gary dies. I don't think I was ever more profoundly affected by a TV character's death than I was when Gary died. He was the most lovable character on the show. I remember laying on the couch feeling shocked and sad, and calling my wife to commiserate with her the next day.
26
Taffy, you have a great voice! Looking forward to your book, So glad the Times gave you this space. Glad you have survived.
22
Taffy, you're a good writer and I look forward to your book.
I, too watched Thirtysomething when I was thirty something. In a rocky marriage myself in those days, I identified with Tim Busfield's character, Elliot. He and I wore our emotions on our sleeves at that time. I was never as volatile as Elliot but wanted to be if I could find the guts.
For whatever reason I didn't find Mel Harris' Hope character the least bit attractive (too clingy), but I was in love with Patricia Wettig. Still am 30 years later.
16
Elliot was more likable to me, because his emotions WERE out there. Can you imagine this series working without him? Hope and Michael were too pragmatic . . . and Hope could be downright annoying, from what I remember of my reactions.
1
Loved this. Thank you, Taffy! I was a Thirtysomething obsessive when it ran during my college years. I think I thought I was (or was to be) Ellyn. Certainly not Hope. I graduated from college and from Thirtysomething on to "real life" and didn't watch the last season so wasn't aware that Gary died. But a few years ago I purchased the DVD set and binged the first two seasons. A different experience watching now, after my marriage, divorce, and childbirth. Until reading this article, I hadn't thought I'd watched through the lens of my own parents' divorce(s), but perhaps I did and that explains why my response to Hope and Nancy was, respectively, "no way" and "of course." I'm newly motivated to finish the DVD set and to experience Gary's, and the show's, passing, and to be devastated anew.
8
I was in my early twenties when the show first aired and watched it only a few times. Rather than aspirational, I found it a depressing depiction of what my future life with marriage and children might look like. In hindsight, maybe it was a reaction to my own parent's divorce.
10
During high school I babysat for a family of three boys every Tuesday night and after the boys went to bed I would watch Thirtysomething and devoured every moment of it. But like you wrote and what I didn't understand at the time was these Tuesday nights were an escape from my own household and my parents cold marriage witch finally ended after 48 years with the passing of my Mom. The year following her death I struggled with a ton of emotions and the memories of their sad marriage. This article articulates perfectly what I have been feeling. Thank you...
15
Thank you for this great and well-written essay. Your book is now on my to read list. I always watched this show as a twenty and then thirty something -a love/hate relationship - loved watching their lives but always thought they were self-absorbed. But I suppose that if I really thought about it, I did watch it to see how they did things and whether/how I might do things differently.
6
@Paula
This article is the epitome of self absorption. Writers do have to tap into their feelings but the writer takes her feelings, like the song FEELINGS when Carol Burnett screams it on stage as Eunice until you want to leave the room, covering your ears. I feel I just read a transcript to a shock therapy session and don't know whom to hand tissues and Xanax.
7
In our twenties, there were a bunch of us--some married, some not-- colleagues at a social service agency, who were devoted to Thirtysomething. Each week, at lunch or after-work drinks, we processed an episode together, and were sad when the series was discontinued. One colleague, whom I've seen just twice in thirty years after she moved far away, messaged me about this article. Thanks for the memories, and I'll be buying your book.
22
I have fond memories of my college girlfriends and I gathering to watch Thirtysomething together each week. I've never thought much about its influence but you are right, of course, it was there. But what this essay becomes, the parts about divorce, truly resonate--of course, this was my experience too, my parent's unhappy marriage and divorce. The event and the condition--so beautifully put. And the ending of this essay just shines. Thank you. Thank you for writing this.
27
I was a thirtysomething at the time the show aired and fell in love with it immediately. At the time I had just left a small Midwestern advertising agency for a more secure job in healthcare research but I clearly identified with Michael and Elliot. My daughter was just two or three at the time and I longed for so much of what Hope and Michael had in their lives. One of my best friends at work was also an avid watcher of the series and almost every week we spent time talking about the latest episode and dissecting it for its meaning and application to life. When the series ended I was sad always hoping it would have continued just a little longer.
Years later when I was divorced, my daughter was grown and I had moved onward in my career, I found the series streaming on Netflix and watched every episode that was available then. Reading this essay now makes me want to travel back in time to the 1980s to visit not only their lives but my own. Thank you for a wonderful and thoughtful piece of writing here today!
41
Another gem of an essay by Taffy. My husband and I loved watching this show as we were about the same age as the characters and just starting our family, but we dubbed it Thirtykvetching.
32
I downed this essay like a cold beer on a hot summer day. Couldn’t get enough of its fresh syncopation. Thank you! Your writing sparkles.
90
My fiction piece that woke me up to my despair over my family was American Beauty. That movie was my life without the death of the father - but the mother, Annette Bening,and the father, Kevin Spacey - I KNEW them. I was the daughter left alone. After seeing it, I was broken (and had to rebuild).
Thank you, Taffy, for this story. Your writing is stellar and you are brave to share this with the world.
28
I remember watching Thirtysomething as a teen. I sensed it was aspirational and feeling bewildered by that aspect. One episode is fixed in my mind: Hope decides to return to work due to feeling stifled at being a stay at home mom. By the end of her first week back at work, she starts to feel stressed out about a work assignment and immediately gives notice and flees back to the safety of home. I recall the last shot of the episode is her dancing with Janey in her arms as the song “Tupelo Honey” plays. I stopped watching that day. I wanted to live bravely in the world and not be scared like Hope. I am now in my 50’s and still love to work. That show certainly made an impression on me.
52
Natasha and I were thirtysomethings with young children when we watched Thirtysomething. We didn't get divorced. Our children saw us kiss and they saw us fight like cats and dogs and then they saw us make up and one of them is mad us today anyway. So it goes, as Vonnegut used to say.
I was immediately reminded of the phone message in a dream, "Sorry we can't answer, Nancy has cancer." I wonder if they named the character Nancy in anticipation of that line? Oh well, the show was fun and that was beautifully written.
18
Why do we only know the religion of one character from thirty something?
Just saying.
1
One of the things thirtysomething did well was show down-to-earth struggles with faith many people of their age and generation had.
Michael was in an interfaith marriage with Hope, and was trying to navigate raising children in a two-religion family. Being an overthinker, it was a source of internal conflict for Michael.
Elliot's Catholicism was the focus of one episode, where he went to visit his mom, who was an alcoholic when he was a child but was now in recovery. He had been a devout Catholic growing up, but had fallen away as an adult and was now facing a spiritual crisis as he dealt with Nancy's ovarian cancer and all the fears and feelings that went with it. He hashed things out with his mom's priest, and began reading the Bible on his own. His faith was later referenced in the episodes about Gary's death.
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@MsC
Actually most of the main characters in thirty something had clearly Identified religious upbringing. Hope is identified at Presbyterian in the first season episode about Nancy and elliot’s fight following dinner together, There’s an entire episode about Elliot’s struggle with his Catholic upbringing “Sifting the Ashes”, Nancy tells Ethan during her struggle with cancer, that she was “raised Lutheran”, and, obviously, Melissa, Michael’s cousin was raised and remains Jewish ( she attends social events in Friday nights at the synagogue, referenced in a season 1 episode. When Ellyn’s Parents divorce we can assume she is a WASP from references in that episode to her upbringing and Gary is a professed agnostic, skeptical of all things religious ( the Rabbi at Hope and Michael’s wedding, Leo’s Brys ceremony). I thought the show did a pretty good job of fleshing out all of the characters.
24
@NY Coolbreez
Michael and Melissa are Jewish
Hope is secularly Christian
Elliott is Catholic
It's been years and I remember this. All of the characters decisions were informed by their beliefs, or by them wresting with their beliefs.
23
I don't know about anyone else, but I am definitely reading "Fleishman is in Trouble". This person can WRITE.
173
Yeah! Me too! I submitted my first letter before finishing the article... trying hard to conjure up ANY EPISODES from THIRTYSOMETHING... but am totally amazed as well as delighted with THIS WRITER! Gonna stand on line at STRANDBOOKS when her novel appears:)) thank you.
@You da Man She's excellent. Check out her article on Gwyneth and Goop: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/magazine/big-business-gwyneth-paltrow-wellness.html
2
Can no one separate fiction from fact? A popular TV show is supposed to "represent" something?
4
I loved ThirtySomething. I think a lot of the power of the Nancy/Elliot divorce story arc has to do with the actor who played their son Ethan, Luke Rossi. He was astonishingly talented and the show did a great job of showing the realistic emotions of a child with warring parents.
25
Thank you for your honesty and beautiful writing. I watched some of the early episodes of the show when I was a newly-married, newly-graduated-from-law-school mid-twenty something. But I couldn't take it and stopped watching. I now have a better understanding of why. My parents divorced when I was 11, got remarried when I was 13, got divorced again when I was a junior in high school. Your description of your parents' divorce as a life-long "chronic condition" is dead on. I am still devastated by it, and it continues to impact my sister and me and our families in ways both mundane and emotional. Thanks for the validation. And tell Claude he's a gem.
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@Valerie
Referring to impact of an act of liberation, i.e. filing for and being granted a divorce as "chronic condition" certainly sounds as betrayal of feminist sisterhood.
On average, 74% of all divorces are filed for by women, who take that, generally very difficult step because they can't take it anymore. Studies after studies show that, overall, women, i.e. suffering party in a divorce, feel clearly better after divorce and so do their children.
While Karl Marx first taught, almost two hundred years ago that 'marriage is a yoke on women" and the above-mentioned studies consistently show that women continue to do grossly disproportional share of household chores and child care, when they find a courage and feel safe enough to remove that yoke from themselves and their children, we should be supportive and look at the overall picture That is that divorce, especially no fault divorce laws brought freedom, better life and often refuge from physical and mental harm to so many.
3
@Refugee from East Euro communism, can your statement + the struggles of children both be true at the same time? The writer is not saying divorce is wrong just by admitting that it's hard.
5
I didn't watch "Thirty Something", but your article spoke to me about how affected I was by my parents turbulent marriage until they passed away. There was more than grief, there was anger and your article helped me see how the present is what counts. I look forward to reading your book because you are one really good writer. Claude, like my husband, provides me with a sense of balance and an appreciation for what my life is like now, despite going through my own divorce and re-marriage. Funny, I never respond to these articles, but felt moved to do so with yours.
Thank you.
10
Thanks for the memories. I was obsessed with 30 something as a recent college grad working in advertising in NYC looking for the playbook on how my life would turn out. I hated the weak whining Nancy (I had no compassion then apparently). I thought I was supposed to be Hope but I was actually more an Ellyn. By the final season I was glad it ended because I realized how depressing it was.
On reflection I now see I’m a combination of bits of all the characters and my 26 year marriage and 2 grown daughters feel like they were informed by that show. I remember it made me think that marriage seemed so hard. It is but also wonderful and when it’s right it’s great. I suspect the author may come to a similar conclusion in a few years.
14
Thank you, Ms. Brodesser-Akner, for a stunning essay. It moved me in so many ways. I can't wait to read your book.
21
Like you, in my 40s, I am feeling the trauma of my young life when I was not seen or acknowledged by my own traumatized parents. Like you, I never saw them kiss. So I recently looked up the work of Dr. Gabor Mate who makes the link between trauma and all addiction whether it is opioids, alcohol, shopping, food, gambling, screens...or as a society to oil. It has been enlightening. Only when we heal the trauma are we able to let go of the addictions. Yesterday I decided to finally let go of my addiction so I could sit honestly with my trauma. Last night I dreamed of eating Oreos.
What I notice from the photo of Hope and Michael and their baby, is the product placement of a sugary cereal behind them. I learned a lot as a lonely teen from TV. Watching Oprah every afternoon in the late 1980s seemed as comforting as a hug. But I now wonder what I've also retained from the commercials. Were they for Oreos?
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@Earthgirl
I too have found Mate's writing compelling. The other book I found to have profound insight on this subject matter is: "The Body Keeps The Score" by Bessel van der Kolk. All the best.
6
@Earthgirl
I will have to check out Dr. Mate's work. What you cite resonated with me, having just seen the Elton John biopic, "Rocket Man" and then listening to his 2013 interview with Terri Gross. Both, but particularly the radio interview, address his multiple addictions to drugs, alcohol, and a variety of behaviors including overwork and shopping that he wasn't able to overcome (except the shopping, which he still apparently retains, and the overwork, much later) until undergoing rehab and therapy. The trauma of his his parents' divorce, and the complete lack of affection from his father were at the root of his addictions.
5
My wife and I were new parents and thirtysomething during that time and my wife loved the show. No, we weren’t whiny yuppies, we were a loving couple, working hard to do our best as parents, friends, family and work.
When my wife finished grad school I bought her the boxed dvd set so she could spend some well earned decompressing time reflecting on that time.
Hope dancing with baby Janie and welcoming Michael home with a kiss, that’s a beautiful reminder of a great yet challenging time in our lives. Maybe I’ll dust off the DVD’s again.
24
Loved that show. I was in my late 40's then and so envious of the "real emotions" it depicted. Got divorced in the early '90s and found the love of my life as the decade ended -- we'll celebrate our "19th" this year.
I wonder whether my daughters feel the pain you describe. We have -- I think -- a great relationship and it seems they have the same with their mom but we don't talk about it.
BTW, you can write! Will probably read your book because of that.
17
I love this piece, not only is the writing spectacular, I also schooled myself in the future and devotedly studied thirtysomething as a teen. I think about it every time I see lilac bushes in the spring (Nancy loved them). I so wanted the marital love and strife and makeups I watched. Thanks for giving us all this lovely superfan read.
14
Oh, the Girbaud jeans and the tiny, braided leather suspenders! I loved this column and will read the author’s book. We have TV kinship now.
I, too, discovered ThirtySomething on the Lifetime Channel but I was already an adult in my actual 30s. I was living abroad in the late 80s, so I missed the heyday of the show. When I watched ThirtySomething, I felt like the character Art Bechstein in The Mysteries of Pittsburgh when he meets a group of friends and laments that everything has already happened and he cannot catch up.
I admired Michael of the “I Quit” note but loved Gary. I’ll admit feeling some satisfaction when Gary was denied tenure as his too cool for school politics reign was over. I spent a fair amount of time crying during the shows, I but don’t dare rewatch the series. I want the show to remain walked off from the passage of time or the imposition of my judgment.
30
Now that’s great writing. Thank you for showing me something true that I hadn’t seen before.
82
This was such an amazing piece.
I too would use television for escapism and guidance. The shows of my childhood (70's/80's), raised me, as my parents were emotionally unavailable to the kids and to each other.
As an active/present parent in 2019, my kids have very limited screen time for this exact reason. I don't want them to problem solve emotions into 22 min sitcom/romcom/ action sequences. Life, love and relationships shouldn't be reduced to TV playbooks and scripted formulas.
I will be reading your book.
14
Thank you for a beautiful personal essay! I, too, am the child of a broken marriage, not by divorce, however. That would have happened, I'm sure, had my father not died in an automobile accident. Like you, I watched television to learn about "normal" life: my shows were the family sitcoms of the 1950s and 1960s. I never did learn about life from TV.
Then, in my 30s, a newly minted lawyer and a fairly new father, there was a television show about me and people like me – Thirtysomething – my wife and I, with two children (ages 4 and 2 when the series started), were devoted watchers: every week we plopped down in front of the TV to watch it. And every week we enjoyed to fiction of it: this wasn't us! These people were nothing like us!
The show was no more a real depiction of 30-year-old family life in the 1980s than "Father Knows Best" had been in the 1950s. And yet there you were as I had been earlier trying to learn about real life from broadcast fiction. Television cannot do that; it can't teach us about real life. However, novels can. From fiction that dives deep, as deeply as is needed, we can discover things 30- or 60-minute TV stories never can.
I'm glad you've written a novel. I'm sure doing so taught you many things. I look forward to reading it and learning from you.
63
It's funny but if the show is supposed to be about small moments, that's the only thing I remember about it. I remember Hope dancing with her baby with Tupelo Honey by Van Morrison playing. I remember her giving birth and instead of the brave screaming that most actresses do when playing a birth scene, she was screaming, "take it out! take it out of me!" Her fear and panic were so real and so not brave. Probably closer to what many women feel when giving birth.
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