Finally, China is forced to act. It is new territory for them. Whether Trump has the courage to take it all the way and who is going to blink first?
Every crisis bring out some gems. Good things happened after GFC everywhere. Let us see what comes out of this.
It is not a crisis yet. I believe Chinese have more reserves than what meets the eye. Whether they play dragon or not is the question.
Just wait till the Chinese stop buying debt issued by the treasury department to finance the federal budget deficit and more people will see the lack of wisdom in the notion of biting the hand that feeds Uncle Sam’s opioid like addiction to Chinese money. The old wise English politician, Churchill, was right when he said people often get the government they deserve. All those who voted for Trump and lost their money on the market have nobody but themselves to blame. Must they destroy America to make it great again?
3
All else aside, the United States is very lucky not to have a weak leader like Justin Trudeau that doesn't understand anything about business. It's better to be in a position to muscle other countries around than it is to get muscled around by other countries. Donald Trump is one tough son of a gun; who knows something about businesses and economics; he sure knows what he is doing, at least much more than Justin Trudeau (who used to be a high school drama teacher and spends his time in the boxing ring getting knocked out). As Andrew Scheer (leader of the conservative opposition) mentioned during Question Period on April 30, 2019: "... the ongoing diplomatic crisis between China and Canada continues. And now it's Canadian canola producers who are paying for this Prime Minister's weakness on the world stage. It's clear that China has no respect for this Prime Minister ... and why would they... after clowning around in India and backing down to Donald Trump time and time again, they believe they can walk all over him".
3
@Skynex Drones
Trump doesn't even know what the word "tariff" means. He has ADD so bad that he can't read a full page of printed text or finish a spoken paragraph on the same subject he started with. He walks out of important meetings five minutes after they start because his ADD is so bad.
In fact, his ADD is so bad that it is highly doubtful that he ever completed a one-hour test in school at any time. His brain just won't let him focus that long.
He doesn't know anything about what he is doing. His professors say that he was the dumbest student they ever had.
7
I just want to get this straight. There is a tariff on Chinese goods. That is paid for by the importer. That money goes to the federal government. Prices of goods go up so the importer doesn't take a loss.
Then the federal government supplements farmers so they don't take a loss.
So money is transferred from US consumers to US farmers.
Is this not a regressive tax? Mostly on the poor? And is this not welfare for the agricultural community? Whose idea was this. Oh yea. The art of the deal. I guess Mr. Trump missed the lesson on Mercantilism.
8
@Robert Kleinman
Mr. Trump has ADD so bad that he could not sit still to hear the complete explanation of the word "tariff". He thinks the Chinese send us a big check.
5
@Wolf Man
Right after Mexico sends us a big check.
And NATO.
1
Given that Trump has a positive rating ONLY in Israel , vs the rest of the world , how will Chinese shoppers feel about buying something made in America ?
China doesn`t need to raise tariffs much to cut imports from the USA. The Made-in-America label will do much of the damage.
FYI, China issued more patents than any other nation in 2017 & has a plan to become the world`s high tech leading manufacture by 2025. Eg. Huawei's 5G is ready to go & the tardy US version is based on a less useful, different wavelength , needs more towers). It will be the Beta vs VHS contest all over again.
America , the Trump-Kushner crime family are making a killing via the tax cut & tax loopholes they wanted. How are you doing if you are not part of the 1%. Also if the US labor participation rate for working age adults was at its historical average for the 2000-2008 the unemployment rate would more than double with 8 million more people registering for jobs. But ALL the coal mining jobs and buggy whip factory jobs have come back , right.
5
This going to hurt, but if we don't take it now we ... more likely our children ... will take a lot more pain later. Trump is an obnoxious self-serving idiot, but he's right on this one. If you think that China is ever going to play by the rules that everyone else does, you are dreaming.
4
@Charles Becker
That aint, all Chuck. When pointy headed liberals tell you that tariffs don't work, remember -- China retaliated -- with tariffs.
We should be more interested in how more expensive everything will be; when carbon taxes are placed on everything made and or transported by fossil fuels. Even more interesting, where will those tax receipts go? To the climate god to buy off disaster? Or, to a bureaucracy at EPA to employ more scheming Flim-Flammers.
1
@Charles Becker
Trump doesn't even know what the word "tariff" means. He has ADD so bad that he can't read a full page of printed text. If he is right about anything it is only by random chance.
3
First we learned that health care policy is complicated. Then we just sort refused to acknowledge that the current regime has gone out of its way to create enormous budget deficits instead of eliminating them as promised. Now, it seems, trade wars are not easy to win, if they can be won at all. But at least Trump as able to print money to make us all rich by simply raising tariffs ever higher -- although that takes us back to his failed plan to eliminate the deficit: "print money." Is it just me, or does it seem like none of this stuff is working out for the better?
4
There was once a trade agreement that was negotiated at lengths and in great detail, called the Trans-Pacific Partnership or TPP. Obama invested quite heavily in it and one of its components was the "Labor Chapter" which would commit all members to uphold internationally recognized worker rights, including minimum wage, limited working hours and health regulations.
That would have had a great effect of levelling the playing field and allowed industries in the US to compete with industries in, for instance, China while still paying their workers decent pay. Without the TPP, only way to bring back these industries is if the US workes would accept the paycheck that Taiwan or Korea pay their workers.
Now, China was not a fan of TPP, but most insiders were pretty certain they would eventually join.
Trump threw TPP away because he was certain he could negotiate better deals with everyone one-by-one.
By doing that, he basically abandoned the idea that by forcing the low-wage countries to treat their workers as the US and Europe treat theirs, the incentive for industries in the west to move production to the east would decrease and therefore the US could compete while maintaining a working middle class.
10
"Beijing’s retaliation comes at a time when many in China feel that the United States has behaved highhandedly in threatening tariffs. “Mutual trust and respect are of the essence in handling the negotiations,” said Zhu Ning, a Tsinghua University economics professor."
The quote of one professor does not justify the claim of 'many in China', and the content of the quote does not justify the claim of "behaved highhandedly". It is just as possible that the professor might have implied that the US has lost trust in China in the final stage of negotiation last week as China rescinded the terms of agreements but the US shouldn't have lost her trust..
A subtle fake news.
2
This view that China has a "long view" is sentimental, uninformed, and misguided: A Chinese colleague told me recently that the Chinese people have essentially traded in human rights in exchange for the opportunity to make as much money as possible. Don't be fooled by the Communist moniker into thinking that the Chinese people are in some sort of Confusian-esque state waiting the US out. Instead, they are world-class capitalists and hustlers who want to move up the wealth spectrum ASAP. As such, the government there knows that they need a 9-10% annual growth rate to keep the lid on civil unrest which, if it came to pass, would not be pretty. Furthermore, they'll run out of imports to put tariffs on way before we do. So, while Trump-haters root for him to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory( as other presidents have done before him), I'm confident that Trump will hang in there.
4
@pete
Trump doesn't even know what "tariff" means. If he gets any good result, it could only be by accident. He knows less about trade than a dog knows about car keys. He is astoundingly ignorant.
7
Well-- there you have it. Trump said that the tariffs have put $10's of billions of dollars into the US treasury. He wants to give another $15 billion to farmers in addition to the $12 billion already allocated. Trump supporters of course by this lie since they are gullible and uninformed.
3
This “administration” is a the equivalent of a bull blundering wildly through a pediatric ICU.
The entire thing needs to be put down — Now!!
3
China doesn't want to add to the price of American goods for their consumers/citizens. The TrumpGOP on the other hand . . . .
2
I think some people have amnesia.
In the final year of his presidency, when former President Obama visited China, did you forget how China treated him? Condescending....China treated bad-mouthing Duterte with much more respect than they treated Obama.
In his first year of presidency, when President Trump visited China, don't you remember how China treated him?
Deferential, imperial....China has never treated any other country's president like they treated Trump...
This tells something, go and figure out.
As the whole world knows now, China built the largest concentration camps for ethnic Uyghurs and Kazakhs before the very open eyes of the world and torturing them like a cruel beast....
This also tells something, go and figure out.
If the world community does not stop this maniac's criminal behaviour and let it become the main dominant player in the world affairs, within a quarter century, many countries that are now licking China's boot will become "new Uyghurs, New Kazaks" to be interned in the camps with Chinese style.
2
It's almost as if our policy makers had never read a history book or an economics book. Or maybe they did but decided they could profit from a trade war despite the misery it causes everyone else.
3
@BJW
Trump has ADD so bad that he can't read a full page of text, let alone a book. He doesn't have a clue what "tariff" means.
1
The money we pay China buys our T bills, a fair bargain?
2
Trade negotiation by twitter.
1
As China basically tells Trump to go jump in the lake, it's interesting that our erstwhile major allies Canada, Australia, European Union and Japan aren't exactly tripping over each other to come to Trump's support. Why should they? They've all been disrespected by Trump in one form or another. Last year, Trump slapped tariffs on Canadian and EU steel and aluminum, to which they both retaliated with tariffs on numerous US products. Little wonder also, that a trade deal with Japan is stalled.
If all this were not enough, Trump is supposed to decide by May 18 whether to impose tariffs on European car imports. If Trump follows through with the threat, the EU has already said it will retaliate with another round of tariffs on more US products.
'Fair trade' with our major trading partners is a terrific goal, but Trump's bluster and blunder negotiating approach is proving to be a total failure. It's frustrating, to say the least, that American consumers are paying for it with their hard earned money.
10
@Rob Our allies aren't coming to Trump's support because he's threatening to raise the tariffs he slapped on them last year too. We haven't even closed a trade deal with Canada and Mexico yet -- the "deal" Trump negotiated with them is getting big push back from REPUBLICANS in Congress.
We're left with tiny little countries/economies as our "free trade partners."
Trump has the strongest hand, but he has the weakest hand. Obviously, US imports more, so its tariffs inflict more damage. But Trump, or any first-term president, thinks in the short term. China is free to think in the long term, and a weaker US benefits it's global strategy.
For example, China will have more leeway to put the screws on Taiwan and US chip companies.
5
Bull markets don’t die of old age; they are murdered.
1
@Ziggy
Remember that when the market is roaring during election season next year.
@Dr. John
Market is roaring because we borrowed 1 trillion to prop it up, is that so tough to understand?
4
@Dr. John
Bears roar. Bulls grunt.
1
I'm sorry the US government is so thick. I don't see them winning this. What does the US make better than anyone else? Not cars. Not consumer electronics. Not a whole lot in of the mass market items. There are a lot of really excellent items mostly in niche markets that rely on great US design but feature offshore manufacture. US commercial hegemony now tends to be financial and software based. Meanwhile a lot of the software stuff is toxic to democratic societies, and the financial stuff is based on the power of size and the power of reserve currency and a not inconsiderable amount of financial engineering that is essentially counterproductive. Farm exports are big but suck up a lot of government subsidies. The power is starting to slide, the rot is rapidly growing and I wish the US would get their act together, because I prefer a democratic neighbor to a dictatorship.
6
At least we still have Saturday Night Live. And the current administration goes out of its way to provide fresh and comical material every single day!
@Hugh Wudathunket Indeed you do, which seems like too far in the future to envision in China.
The easy to win trade war goes on. Who do you have confidence in, Team Trump or Team China? The President making inaccurate statements about the actual impacts of his trade war doesn't build my confidence about his acumen these matters. This behavior does not go unnoticed by the Chinese negotiators. I am doubtful that presidential bullying sways anybody on the Chinese side, although it plays well with his base (the real reason for all his talkie-talk). If an agreement is reached at some point in the future, whatever the contents of such agreement, the President will declare a glorious victory. The individuals, businesses and markets damaged in the process will just have to suck it up and find solace in the knowledge that they took one for The Donald.
5
Keep threatening and pushing China Donald Trump ....
....and then tuck yourself into the fetal position when they get fed up with your childish antics and start selling off their 1.2Trillion dollars in US Federal notes they hold. Of course you will blame Democrats for it when it happens.. because that is how you roll.. nothing is ever your fault.
6
Looks good to me. Indeed, wouldn't bother me if it stayed permanent. The current system has left the US with a withering manufacturing sector, a unemployed manufacturing class, a leak in patent and confidential documents, and a country determined to recreate "The Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere". Trade with China was originated in the hope that a "socialism with Chinese characteristics," would lead to greater internal freedoms, the demise of the single party system, and a balance among Russia, China, and the US. Instead, the Chinese have become an economic juggernaut that seeks to oppose the US in every possible way. The number of Pacific rim companies that can replace China in this trade controversy from Vietnam to South Korea is laughably clear. It's reasonable for the Chinese to resist changes to their laws made by outside parties; that I can accept. But there's more than one way to skin a cat. I think the US is on the right track and should stick to it.
4
@alexander galvin
Two points.
First. The overwhelming percentage of products coming in from China have the names of U.S. companies printed on them. China didn't gut the U.S.manufacturing sector. American companies did.
Secondly, 25% isn't even close to equalizing the difference in manufacturing costs. If the the U.S. raised tariffs that high the U.S. economy would literally collapse.
There has never been anything stopping American companies from coming back. But they won't until it makes economic sense to THEM. You don't count at all.
They took their tax cut and rolled in back into themselves with stock buy backs (who saw that coming) and now they will watch stock prices fall and buy back even more. All we will get out of it is Trillion dollar deficits.
Even the few companies that do come back will only do so because they plan to build largely automated factories. They have ZERO interest in re-creating factories with hundreds of American workers with benefit plans.
You can't tariff your way back to a 1970's manufacturing economy and anyones who tells you so is just trying to get elected.
13
@alexander galvin "the Chinese have become an economic juggernaut that seeks to oppose the US in every possible way." - Why is seeking the best growth possible for the Chinese people "opposing" the U.S.? When we do the same globally we call it "exporting the American way of life." When they do it it's aggression. Hmm...
1
@alexander galvin . Why *is* there an "unemployed manufacturing class"? We haven't manufactured much for a generation or two yet I see sad documentaries showing me towns where there was manufacturing after WW2 and interviewing generations who didn't lose their "manufacturing jobs" -- they never had one. The factories were literally closed before they were born. I suppose I could hang out a shingle saying "Ye Little Silversmithy Shop" and claim I am an out of work silversmith. PS Wamart sets the shopping prices in the US, employers pay accordingly and this train has left the station.
We should have never sold out to China in the first place—enemy of free trade and freedom in general. This is where it got us.
1
@Chip Add up how many nations America has bombed, invaded or toppled post-WWII and then compare it to China's activities. Who exactly is promoting freedom? The U.S. isn't John Wayne in a white hat and the sooner American's grow up and own what we've done and continue to do globally the sooner we can start making smart decisions.
1
Trump seems to follow the Dracarys school of economic thought. So this should end well.
— no one ever
1
Get. Rid. Of. Trump.
5
... The odd thing is that Trump thinks that Tariffs on Chinese goods make money for America ...
... In actuality, the American importers pay the Tariffs ... who then pass the increase on to American consumers ...
which results in costlier goods ... American inflation then increases ... ... and not to mention, retaliatory Tariffs on American goods ... which results in less sales ... which results in less jobs ... which results in a downturn in Business ... .. ... which could result in a Recession ...
.... “Make America Rich Again”
5
Trump sees tariffs as tax revenues paid by the users of goods. His mentality and those of his Republican supporters do not have the ability to understand the consequences of actions in a complex world. They see the immediate objectives, the rest is beyond their willingness to consider. However, in their jobs and businesses most of them see costs climbing but not their revenues.
1
@Henry
But Trump thinks tariffs are "income" for the U.S. (probably Wall money).
Im looking at you Wharton School.
2
@Casual Observer
Trump repeatedly says that he thinks the Chinese pay the tariffs. He doesn't have a clue what they even are.
Tariff Man is on the loose again. How do you like them apples Republicans!?
7
Trump is freaking out, just read his Twitter storm.
It doesn't really inspire confidence when the POTUS is freaking about and doing mental gymnastics to justify how "China will pay for the tariffs".
Yep, just like "Mexico will pay for the wall", right?
9
China, Russia, and Korea all know they are dealing with an amateur
13
US do not want a trade agreement. This can be inferred by her demand for China to infringe her own sovereignty. Which country allow herself to be humiliated?
The reason why US do not want a trade deal is because US want to weaken China. This is obvious when US do everything she can to thwart China's rise as can be seen in the Made In China 2025 announcement that trigger much more US aggression.
Trade war is war by non military means. Since US dare not fight a military war against China, the trade war is the second best option. The blame game is just a cover to hide the ulterior motive of neocons and Trump to weaken China. Americans are unwittingly enlisted to participate in this stealth war by other means.
Watch who trades what with this deliberate yo-yo market perversion in the guise of "trade wars". From the not so good market manipulator, Trump... His machinations merely have a wider circle of government insiders who have proven vulnerable to any unfair advantage especially foreign borne.
Who is watching this? The SEC? Where is the "big data" taking us in examining the trade trends correlated with the art-of-the- deal hype jacking around the Market?
2
I'm not worried yet.The Chinese are probably raising the stakes so that when they give Trump a few "shiny beads"(remember the Native Americans and Manhattan) he will back off and proclaim himself the "greatest trade negotiator of all time."Just as with his NAFTA deal,nothing much will actually change.Of course he may be so stupid as to believe his own rhetoric.He may actually believe that during the 80's and 90's he was the most successful businessman in America when he was actually one of the worst.Then.. he was riding on his daddy' money.Now...there is no daddy to bail him out.
7
The Chinese, if they were smart, would schedule a meeting with Don Jr, and promise to dig for dirt on his daddy’s Democratic opponent in 2020. China becomes an instant BFF, trade war is pacified, and Xi Jinping joins Putin on Trump’s speed dial list.
2
I don't see a thoughtful plan in all this. I see an ignorant bully lashing out at a foreign power he isn't the least bit curious about understanding. While we may see a few short-term gains, minor Pyrrhic victories, but the long-term losses will fall mainly on the United States unless we rebuild our alliances and trading agreements with other countries... soon.
Cutting off trade is an unmistakable sign of aggression. We should keep in mind that Trump and his inept administration will always welcome a war over any compromise no matter how small.
5
The Chinese were the most prosperous and stable and enduring political system on the planet right up to the end of the 1700’s. Then in the 1800’s the British sailed into a harbor and basically asserted power to have China do as they demanded. China could not stop them and began an humiliating era of foreign domination over their country that they could not overcome. It was not until just thirty years ago that China began to become a powerful and prospering country, again. They have a real dread of losing that by capitulation ever again.
Trump is an ignorant man who thinks that either one is a winner or a loser in conflicts and competitions and negotiations and deals. He does not believe in win-win arrangements which he must if he wants to succeed here. He is conducting relations in a manner which will not work with the Chinese but he really has no idea what he is getting into.
3
Does anyone ever consider that the outsourcing of American industry occurred at the behest of largely Republican dominated CEO's, bankers, and investment firms? Rich Republicans are not the friends of the American Worker. As F. Scott Fitzgerald said “Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we are. They are different. ”
2
Liberals cheered when Obama levied tariffs on China.
2
@Dr. John
And the Republicans said it was the end of the world.
Well, one difference is that Obama understands what the word "tariff" means. Trump doesn't.
Expectations for the exchange rate per Goldman Sachs rose to 6.95 yuan or renminbi to the dollar today from 6.65 earlier. This -0.30 decline in the renminbi's value versus the dollar, represents a -4.5% decline [(0.30/6.65) x 100 = 4.5%]. Thus, in 3 months, one renminbi is expected to be worth: $0.144, computed as follows: [(1 renminbi x $1.00/6.95 renminbi ) = $0.144] down from $0.150 earlier.
As the dollar rises, exports of US goods become more expensive because of this exchange rate conversion effect. Also, internationally competing imports of goods and services into the US become cheaper because of this effect. But, a rising dollar affects all international trade transactions by the US. And, if it persists, when foreign profits of US subsidiaries are translated into US dollars, this same effect will reduce quarterly earnings by US corporations, which will be reported about 3 months from now. Such earnings are critical to maintaining today's highly valued equities markets.
[5/13/2019 12:20pm Mon Greenville NC]
2
@John Joseph Laffiteau MS in Econ
You lost Trump before the end of the second sentence.
The overriding irony of this tariff stuff is that when it is all said and done it will amount to a crude form of a carbon tax. I mean when things become more expensive people consume less. Period. Less consumption means less carbon emissions. Never thought I'd see the day I'd see Trump's base rooting for a carbon tax. Almost makes the Democrats seem totally inept when it comes to taking meaningful actions on the environment in relation to Trump.
1
A lot of manufacturers have already moved to other countries The latest GDP, unemployment rate and CPI showed the impact on 10% trariff is very mild. With that said, 25% should not be a huge issue. The US needs a tough president to deal with an autocrat, a country which steal technology, spy and threaten the national security. After all, Trump is the person who has the ability to stop all these unfairness
3
It is not about why all the manufacture works goes to foreign countries, has anyone thought about why those products have to make overseas?? US labor cost is high, and consumers want to buy less expenses stuffs, who to blame? at the end of the day, we middle income US citizens are the one who is paying the price.
There's no winning, both parties lost. Tariff really makes the country stronger or it just creates more hidden problems in the long run.
1
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
- as Trump is right on two of his core initiatives.
2
@PulSamsara
Trump doesn't even know what a tariff is. If he is right, it is only by accident, and not as often as twice a day.
Smart entrepreneurs are not standing still. Aware of the risks, they are planning the “best alternative to a negotiated deal” and wait and see before embarking on the unpredictable and irreversible pathway of shifting long-nurtured supply chains. Mexico is attractive where the delay to build capacity is short and the transition cost is less than the tariffs. Vietnam, India and Columbia are already vying for a stake.
American consumers and their Chinese counterpart, will bear the burden of the new rounds of tariffs. The greatest impact will be on the U.S. working poor for whom affordable imports are part of the daily struggle. Voiceless, they are merely collateral damage, less likely to benefit from tariffs’ revenue that would be subject to the law of diminishing returns, if the issue is unresolved prior to the U.S. election. Afterwards, all bets are off.
From a geopolitical perspective, assuming cooler heads prevail to prevent the doomsday scenario of an unpredictable all-out trade war, China would continue to retaliate while pusuing its multi-layered diplomacy building strategic allies and global trade, through diversification, as witnessed in Africa, Europe and Latin America. Its impact on the U.S.-North-Korean issue is hard to predict, since peace in the region is vital to China’s interests. Also, Chinese leaders do not act in haste. They are mission rather than event driven; but would not hesitate to hitchhike on opportunistic surprise events to accomplish their aim.
6
@Alain Paul Martin Trump is in no way "smart"
@Shahid
Sorry Shahid; I am concerned about the poor and made no reference to the POTUS.
Americans had better remember the hammer that China ultimately holds is embargoes. If China bites the bullet and takes its own pain medicine, it can collapse the American economy. China only needs to withhold what American business executives and hedge fund manager transferred to China when they intentionally hollowed out American manufacturing in order to stuff their own pockets and break the back of American worker's ability to resist them. The successful class war they waged as noted by Warren Buffet and embodied by the rise of the current Regime of Oligarchs in Washington, DC ultimately undermines all of American society. Keep it up and Economic Winter is Coming. China can take pain and has the economic power to prevail over a self destructive and increasingly washed out, self doubting opponent. And thus the new global super power watches the old one implode like the British Empire before it. Fortunately, unlike Germany against Britain, it may not take a world war to do it. Or maybe it will.
8
Every time Trump has made tough statements on trade and tariffs on imports from China, Canada and Mexico, Wall Street indices went down. Most threats got watered down eventually which drives Wall Street back up again.
Has NYT investigated buy-sell activities of people in Trump's closest orbit (his wealthy cabinet members, donors and family) to see if there is a pattern of profiteering?
What appears to be Trump's random tough calls and eventual concessions could have been discussed within Trump's inner circles so they can time their buys-&-sells accordingly.
20
That proves Trumps point. We put tariffs on 200 billion of goods, they on 60 billion.
It greatly illustrates Trump's point about the trade imbalance.
6
@Bo
Many US companies set-up shop in China.
For example, General Motors sells 70% more cars in China than in the US. GM's largest market is China, even bigger than the U.S, and the cars are made locally in China.
Tens of billions of dollars of profit of US companies will be affected using assymetric means.
12
@Bo
Trump can't even correctly define the word "tariff". He has no clue how they work.
His point is random slogans, nothing more. He can't remember anything more than that.
How much money meant to subsidize farmers is going to end up in Trump's pocket? How much money for the wall would have? Any time I hear him spouting huge numbers I know that beady eyed reptile brain is calculating where he can move big money for himself. This is ALL he knows and all he is driven to do. He could care less about anything else unless it's covering up his myriad crimes as President and presidential candidate.
24
@Deb Paley
He or his cronies, family could be selling short in the market. SEC should look into trades.
The man knows nothing about a myriad of subjects including business, politics, diplomacy, economics, I could go on but I'm limited as to space.
11
Republicans are anti Free Trade, just like Venezuela, Argentina, India, Bolivia, Cuba. Such winners!
7
@Robert kennedy
We put tariffs on 200 billion of goods, they on 60 billion.
It greatly illustrates Trump's point about the trade imbalance.
4
@Bo
Many US companies set-up shop in China.
For example, General Motors sells 70% more cars in China than in the US. GM's largest market is China, even bigger than the U.S, and the cars are made locally in China.
Tens of billions of dollars of profit of US companies will be affected using assymetric means.
4
@Bo -- demonstrates that neither Trump nor his supporters understand trade and tariffs.
3
The only thing worse than an idiot is an idiot who thinks he’s a genius. I’m sure the GOP faithful will explain all the pain to their gullible base. Good luck with that.
17
RealityCheck tarriffs are just another form of NAFTA. People arnt stupid in usa. Companys export jobs to china an sell those products back to people got laid off as same price as if it was made in usa. We the people have choice stop buying imports completely. Means our government also stop spending tax dallors on all imports completely. Only then will jobs return pay living wage an world will be alot better off including china. We dont need another nuke accident like japans 4 nuke power plants still melting down poluting the oceans. China must look to japan nuke accident an see its own future. Why its so important to live by ones own means.
Someone has to clue "Delusional Donald" in on what's happening here...If anyone really thinks....that the Chinese tariffs will make the US manufactured product more attractive in terms of price..I've got a defunct TRUMP Casino in Atlantic City you may be interested in. The leadership for the US based companies are concurrently raising their prices as well to maximize profits and (of course)optimize their compensation...
The good news: the primary beneficiaries of the TRUMP Tax Cuts will have a lot more 'durable good' inventory to choose from. Most American consumers will be unable to afford them...
8
No worries, Trump said Trade Wars are so easy to win, that China would cave, and he is an Excellent businessmen that understands the Chinese mind.
10
'Goods that travel by sea take two to four weeks to reach the United States from China, depending mainly on whether the ship sails to the East or West Coast and how fast the ship travels. That means the effect won’t be felt for a few weeks.'
In the Indian pre-Biblical epic, Mahabharata, one of the chief characters, Judhisthira, who was supposed to be most righteous and extremely knowledgeable, is asked by a Yaksha (God himself in disguise) as a test, 'what is fleeter than wind', to which Judhisthira answers, apparently correctly, 'the mind is faster than the wind' (remember, this was way before Einstein and his discourse on the speed of light, etc.!).
Well, we can see that, even now, Trump's mind is faster than, at least, the ships from China.
2
This is what the world looks like (and historically has looked like) when every nation is looking out solely for its own best economic interests.
A zero sum world where the predator wins at the expense of everyone else.
Like what you are seeing?
I don't and fear we will never address our global problems such as economic inequality, ecological overshoot, and climate change.
We certainly have the ability to, but in the aggregate we demonstrably lack the human will to.
MB
16
I tend to think USA is going to lose this war as China has a growing middle class and the USA does not. The weird thing I've noticed under the Trump government is that it has highlighted the fact that China is the one acting like a superpower in it's trade relations with other nations around the world and forming pacts and free trade agreements with them and creating goodwill, when USA is being isolationist and hostile.
In articles by the Chinese government I've read they've even said they'd like the USA to join the Belt and Road Initiative and are very gracious and respectful in their comments about the USA.
I think it's the rise of China, as a superpower in the western world, that is seen as a threat by the USA even if China doesn't interfere in other sovereign nations politics and law making legislature.
China isn't a backward nation and has many modern cities just like the western world has. China have also realised the value of green policies in protecting the environment and planet and are cleaning up their nation so as to get rid of pollution and improve their water supplies. Can the same be said of the USA.
10
China is conducting itself very much like the European empires did but with lessons learned. They are using any means to gain control over key resources by well considered deals all over the world. They are not interested in a peaceful and fair world order, make no mistake. The U.S. has tried to do that but China as it is will not. As things stand, the U.S. could find itself in a very different role by the end of the century that’s it does now.
5
@CK
It's because China quickly realize there is only one way to "win" this war: forming it's own power block. Once a block of countries reach a certain mass, it will be self-sufficient in producing and consuming its own production's without the need of access to large external markets.
I have to say this is the ONLY place I support the sociopaths efforts. China has had its way for many years through Democrats and gop presidents alike. Sadly these tariffs are the only thing that at least gets their attention right? Ham- handed indeed, but necessary. They only even thought about giving into our demands for their transgressions when this all went into effect. They cant just steal everything from us as a matter of policy and not have any fear of reprisal. Its our fault for intertwining our economies to the point that it hurts everyone. We need to start diversifying further right now. Dont wait for a deal. We cant have our economy dependent on a communist countries whims. We got ourselves into this because it was lucrative at the time, now we have have to pay it back.
7
@StevieY19
Does it make you feel confident about the outcome to realize that Trump doesn't even know what a "tariff" is?
Does it make you feel confident that he doesn't have enough attention span to read all of what you said?
Would it make you feel confident if the pilot of the plane you are one didn't know what that steering wheel thing in front of the seat was or how it worked?
China doesn't have "Chinese goods". These are American products made in China by "US" companies that seek to avoid unions (workers rights), environmental regulations and US taxes while making sure executive compensation remains at all time highs. Computers, appliances, phones, clothes, tools, furniture and just about everything and anything is now made in China.
It's over, we lost.
14
Trump is thinking of the game in hours, China in scores or hundreds of years. They are holding some winning cards and now they can sell to their own people and other countries.
Does anyone else feel another Bush Depression and two wars coming on?
China may just sit out the next US Treasury Auction. Xi Jinping is targeting Republican States and Mitch McConnell with tariffs and Trump has angered our allies. Xi Jinping is ten steps ahead of Trump.
I'm not sure the Democrats will be able to fix the mess in 2020 like President Obama did last time.
I wouldn't want to live in China but their government has made some enormous progress while our Lobbyocracy went sideways or backwards. They're run by engineers instead of lawyers. Their infrastructure is amazing while ours crumbles. We can't even fix healthcare. Sad!
15
"President Trump is exactly right this afternoon to propose a plan designed to punish China for its most flagrant trade abuses," Schumer said.
"The crown jewel of America, our free and open society that allows great thinkers to create great ideas and products, they steal it, and we do nothing," Schumer added. "Finally, President Trump is doing something, unlike his predecessors, so I commend him."
6
Trump doesn't care. It doesn't affect him. The economy, people's lives and the Earth will be scorched but as long as he can claim a win he's happy.
7
Trump knows nothing about economics to be sure. The trade war is destructive economically. The political damage will linger long after Trump is gone.
But why should economics be any different? He displays a lack of understanding of virtually every substantive topic he deals with - that is when he isn't busy lying, stoking race hatred, obstructing justice or blaming it all on Hillary.
If ignorance is bliss, why isn't Trump any happier?
7
Quick! Someone please tell stupid that American companies and the American consumer will pay the tariffs on Chinese goods that enter the U.S.
And if Chinese-made goods become too expensive because of the tariffs, then U.S. companies will outsource their work to other countries in Asia. Instead of "Made in China," we'll see "Made in Vietnam" or "Mad in Thailand" or something like that. It won't change our balance of payments!
6
Mr. Trump, his 'negotiators' and policy advisers are clearly uninformed on China's history or its national century of humiliation, when it suffered for 100+ years at the hands of Japanese and Western imperial powers. China has not forgotten this humiliation, neither have the Chinese people. They will not be bullied and humiliated into submission again.
It is clear that Mr. Trump is ignorant on this because he is giving them no face-saving way to come to an agreement.
4
A president, especially one this horrendously ignorant, should not have the power to enact tariffs on his/her own.
The US needs a revised set of operating instructions - fast.
11
Breaking news this morning: China will raise tariffs on $60 billion in U.S. goods effective June 1 after trade friction ‘escalations’.
Tariffs don't work. Ask any Macroeconomic college professor or economic think tank expert.
Thanks President Trump. You really knocked this one out of the park.
3
@Ed But Trump has a degree in Econ from Wharton. I had one course in Econ and know more than he does.
1
Trump, long ago, declared that tariff fights were easy. He thought the same about writing a new health care law. Too bad the country has to get hurt as he slowly learns reality.
China is a cheater and needed to be called out. It's just a shame that had to be done by an amateur like Trump.
33
Trade Wars are easy to win! As prices rise in the US because of tariffs, sales to China will increase adding an additional burden on US producers.
1
Not satisfied with bankrupting himself six times, Trump now strives to bankrupt America as a whole
12
Trump used his gut to blow the 453 million daddy left him and another 1.2 billion that we know of. Trump is bankrupt both monetarily and spiritually and so is the USA. I need to move before America reaps what it has sowed and it all comes crashing down. Shame on Democrats and Republicans, who have allowed the demise of the USA.
8
Why is it that Trump haters seem to always support other countries over America? Even the communist countries?
3
@Dr. John, I do not know what you mean. First of all, no one who oppose Trump's tariff war supports China. We believe there are more effective ways of dealing with the problem. Historically, trade wars have been disasters. We should have stayed in the TPP but Trump pulled out of it. That could have, over time, altered China's behavior will maintaining or expanding our export markets. Now farmers and some manufacturers are losing their markets while consumers are paying more for many products. The tariff war has gone on for over a year and was not though through. Why do you support a president who lies to his supporters constantly and is hurting Americans to achieve a political goal?
4
@Dr. John Why is it that Trump seems to love dictators and oligarchs over democracy and the rule of law?
7
@jonathan. Actually we have tried for 20 years many other methods to stop the Chinese leaderships lying and stealing, and gaming the system thru "unable to change local Province behavior" actions and direct Mercantilism. Unfortunately, this may be the beginning of long-term disengagement. Although, far from ideal, it's much better than losing our future to the Chinese. Clearly, the majority of Americans, and our Allies behind the scenes agree. Many of my Northern Virginia Democrats like myself that we spoke with over the weekend join with fellow Dems & Independents across the country with the Lighthizer leaning team in strongly supporting this strong stance, although, agree TPP might have been a helpful tool. As a former resident of the Palisades neighborhood in Washington D.C. many of the thought leaders living their just could not understand the concept of insisting first in looking out for our U.S. national interest. Thankfully over 65% of Dems nationally still take that loyal nation first attitude, as we still work to build a better world working together when able. So sorry, the left trying to finally implement your 1968 vision-you will not win-we will all stand firm together. I'm still waiting to have just one of my post NYT. I guess you don't respect letting other ideas compete against your control.
2
The closer we get to the 2020 election the more Trump will misbehave. Expect his mindless brinkmanship to continue since it’s his only available strategy. Trump has burned most of his (& our) bridges & his arrogant chest thumping has left us without allies in these troubled times. Imagine the leverage we would have in trade talks with China, bringing an end to Maruro’s brutal regime in Venezuela or containing Iran with our former allies beside us. Instead we have this incompetent buffoonish grifter and his clown posse undermining everything they attempt. Trump goes it alone & the sooner he’s gone the better. Only authoritarian thugs like Putin see him as a positive. Now that’s sad.
4
Seems like many who didn't blink when jobs were being sent over seas are now whining about the loss of their 100 dollar TV sets made by slave workers in China.
3
Going to war without allies is never a good idea.
Hello there from Canada. Remember us? That massive national security threat.
8
The "Stable Genius" strikes again!
Eventually his fan club will understand the "Stable Genius" is not acting in their best interest or anyone else's (other than his self-interest).
The Republican's have become the most reactionary political institution in our history: tariffs, ballooning deficits, anti-free trade, anti-immigrant, anti-environment, anti-institution, anti-women, and yes, anti-American.
Some of this Administration's objectives are arguably necessary, but the approach is oh so wrong. When did browbeating, lying, hubris, deceit, corruption, greed, incompetence, and lack of accountability ever create positive, consistent, and sustained change. Short answer, never!
It's time to vote for anyone other than a Republican, and at every level.
10
This is for seniors only. Remember when you were in elementary school (too difficult already) and you studied geography (no batteries necessary). You learned about the leading exports of countries around the world; about their natural resources, and America’s topped the list.
Along with our exports, we used a large fraction of those commodities to manufacture goods and we exported those too.
Now, whatever we export, we buy back at a greater cost. Does that even make sense?
I am very thankful I was here when America was great. trump’s meaningless slogan made him president. A fraud, a charlatan, a crook.
When a high school, student was asked to name a country, and he said Europe, when I gave a young cashier a ten dollar bill for $8.20 purchase and she couldn’t make change because the register was broken, I wondered where we failed.
7
@David J
I am not a senior and your comment is just plain sad. Wow, just wow.
Xi is playing 3D chess while Trump is still trying to figure out how to play tic-tac-toe. Unfortunately, the American People will be the losers. China is expanding it's trade world-wide while Trump manages to anger and/or cut off our allies and world-wide trade. Oh, but Ivanka still gets to have all her goodies without any problems with tariffs. 2020 and sanity can't happen fast enough.
6
@lynchburglady
He hasn't even mastered connect-the-dots let alone tic-tac-toe.
1
How far we have fallen as a country in so few years. Not just because we have a president who knows nothing about global economics or about effective governing, but because there are still people who continue to support his ignorance, incompetence, and lack of understanding about the livelihood of Americans he purports to represent. Despite his attempt to look tough and feed his ego, China will be the country that calls out this charlatan and weakens the country we used to be.
6
China, of course has the secret weapon which it can unleash and devastate the US economy. China is the biggest banker to the US government. It has the greatest amount of U.S. debt held by a foreign country. China hold $1.7 trillion of U.S. govt debt. China could reduce its U.S. debt holdings, at anytime. If that happens, value of dollar will fall off. Other countries (Euros, UK Pound etc) will follow suit...devastating the U.S. bond market as it will become more expensive for America companies to borrow. So, to those claiming that trade war with China is a good thing, keep dreaming. And here is the source on how U.S. owes:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/chinas-1-point-2-trillion-weapon-that-could-be-used-in-a-us-trade-war.html
1
Not in the self interest of China to have the US economy crash, we owe them too much. China cannot afford US defaulting on payments or renegotiating debt terms. US stock market goes down, so does everyone’s around the planet. Chinese depend on US stability for economic and political reasons.
2
@Jimi You obviously don't know much Jim. The majority of our debt is held by Americans. The US certainly has the strongest hand I assure you. The Chinese only hold 4-6% of our total debt.
This is the only thing to come out of the Trump Administration that I agree with--albeit with concerns for our economy.
China is a bully who regularly engages in illegal activities to gain an edge over other countries and I want to see that stop.
10
@T SB, the tariffs war has been going on for over a year. Why do you think it will be effective in getting China to stop it's objectionable activities?
@T SB sort of like the saying about throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
@T SB
Maybe you could list the names of the foreign companies who filed complaints after China put guns to their heads to do business with them.
1
I don't agree with most of Trump policies. To my surprise, I agree with him in two major issues: 1. Getting away from foreign interventions like Syria, Afghanistan, etc., and 2. Trade.
The US and European countries propped China. At first, it was the greed of American companies going to China to get cheap labor (value added). The Chinese now own companies and their trade dominates the world. As a result, China has become the second most powerful economy, and soon to be the first.
Trump is trying to reduce the trade imbalance with China and help the US regain ground thereby helping American companies sell more goods in China. (Of course, this is partially done for political expediency.) If the Chinese don't open their doors, Americans will have to pay more for Chinese goods due to tariffs. This is not necessarily bad because Americans could start buying "Made in USA" products again. US made goods could become more competitive. This would help US industries.
But then again, should the US continue to be a super power given its track record of invading nations and supporting cruel and criminal dictators like the assassin in Saudi Arabia? I don't see China doing this in countries where it is trading. It does not interfere with governments in Latin America, Africa, etc. So perhaps countries are better off with the Chinese in charge. Planet earth, however, is not with either country running things. They both bring devastation to the environment through their pollution.
2
@Oh Boy!
Yea that about says it.
@Oh Boy!
"To my surprise, I agree with him in two major issues: "
No, you don't. The reason is that Trump doesn't even know what he thinks. He doesn't even know what "tariff" means. He thinks it means the Chinese send us a big check. This should be no surprise. His professors said he was the dumbest student they ever saw. It is doubtful if he was ever able to sit still long enough to complete a one-hour exam.
He has ADD so bad that he can't even read all of what you wrote. There is no chance that he could explain any sort of strategy.
Tariff's can only be said to be protective when there is an industry to protect. When Trump levies tariffs on items for which there is no American industry, he is just flat out taxing the American people.
10
For the commenters who say China is a manipulator of markets and an intellectual property thief - you are correct.
But if you believe that only Donald Trump is aware or addressing it, you are 100% incorrect.
The Obama Administration worked with Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore on the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) to address those concern. Notice which country is not on the list or in the partnership? Yup, China was specifically excluded to encourage trade among the other nations and rein them in WITHOUT disrupting global markets or hurting Americans.
It seems that Trump thought, incorrectly of course that China was part of TPP PLUS it was an Obama plan so he withdrew the US signature. Dumb move? Of course it was but pretty well par for the course for this Administration.
16
@Maxie
TPP would never have passed Congress.
Even Hillary was against it.
1
I wonder if Putin has a hand in Trump’s reckless trade war. He must love seeing the US and China at each other’s throats.
Incidentally it will be interesting to see if Trump attacks Kudlow for daring to say what he thinks. Maybe he’ll throw Mulvaney a bone by having Mulvaney fire Kudlow.
2
Unbelievable. Trump actually had the gall to tell China not to retaliate.
Duh. What did he think would happen?
And why shouldn’t China retaliate?
It’s a simple trade agreement Trump! Get it done already.
4
@MOK78
Typical playground bully tactics .... threatens others, then punches the other guy when they don't cower sufficiently, and then warns them not to fight back.. or else.
It would be hilarious comedy if it was not so tragically sad for US consumers and businesses.
But you know what.. playground bullies generally always receive some pain in return... often with interest and dividends in terms of the level of pain.
It's the 'Art of the Steal' and we're the ones being robbed.
5
Can someone please explain to Trump that the "Madman Theory of Escalation" only works when it isn't completely transparent what you're doing?
Otherwise, your bluff generally gets called.
6
Trump operates USA corporation like he has done best for his own business - a stable genius on bankruptcy.
7
How can the president, on his own, create these tarifs? Steel and aluminum--perhaps he can claim a national emergency or serious national interest, but everything? No way. Congress, take back your power.
3
@Ms D
He get's his staff to declare anything he wants to tariff as a national security issue so he can keep doing this.
I guess in his little world view... China having economic leverage over the US is a national security issue... when in reality.... sticking his finger into China's eyes over and over again during the negotiation process IS THE ACTUAL national security issue.
1
Trump described it as "sport" to lose over $1 billion in his real estate dealings and now he's shooting for the Triple Crown: losing hundreds of billions for U.S. consumers, farmers and investors.
7
@james haynes
Keep in mind.. he likes his "sport" waged with other peoples money.
Being president gives him access to every consumers pocket with is betting on trade with China.
This should be all about China stealing intellectual properties from the US and West. Trinkets don't matter, nor does tariffs. Chinas gains are from stealing and should be seen as losing face.
3
@al
Don't think of it as theft. Think of it as fair trade. In exchange for access to cheap labor and larger markets, US companies give up intellectual property rights. They willingly made that deal in Japan decades ago, and they've been willing to do it now.
4
@al
What Gort said. US companies want access to millions of Chinese consumers and have been trading technology for that privilege.
I do object to economic espionage, which this administration seems to have forgotten about.
2
@al
While I agree that China can and will steal IP and trade secrets (what nation won't actually? and that includes the US)... the reality is that in most cases US corporations are simply signing away their IP and trade secrets as the cost of access to the huge consumer market in China. China knows this, US corporations know this.... but apparently some armchair economists in the US reading the NY Times do not understand this real world business dynamic.
1
I would have appreciated if this news piece actually reported what is going to be taxed and at what rate. I believe that should have been the factual basis for this entire piece.
@Frank
Go into any Target or Walmart.. check the labels in any cross section of items you choose from the shelf. THOSE are the items who prices will go up by more then 25% because Trump now has virtually all Chinese imports on the 25% tariff curve.
The net effect on the US consumer is more then a 25% price increase on these items because the tariff starts at import from China, and after middlemen markup the final prices before the item hits the shelf for a consumer to actually buy it... the final price increase will be closer to 30-40%.
China retaliation in kind (please note.. China did not start the tariff war with the US.. they are simply responding in kind to each tariff provocation) is to be expected... regardless what Donald wants. And that means exports to China from the US will be degraded as long as this tariff war continues.. and that directly impacts export based GDP contribution to the US economy. And it's not just China... Trump is threatening just about every nation with tariffs if he does not get his little temper tantrum driven way here.
1
The one having a jolly good time right now is Russia's de facto dictator Vladimir Putin, who through his protege Trump has managed to divide Americans more than ever, and has his two biggest rivals fighting a trading war they'll both lose..
6
@Jgrauw
It is very much in Russia's interests to have China and the US in conflict.. be it economic or more overt conflicts.
Russia's economy is quite small by comparision.. and the tried and tested Russian approach to set your enemies upon each other to weaken them.... because there is no way you can compete on a level playing field.
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) on Thursday gave rare credit to President Donald Trump, praising him for imposing new tariffs on Chinese imports.
"I don't agree with President Trump on a whole lot," Schumer said on the Senate floor, "but today, I want to give him a big pat on the back. He is doing the right thing when it comes to China."
Trump announced Thursday that the U.S. would impose about $60 billion worth of tariffs on China to penalize Beijing for stealing American companies' intellectual property.
Schumer said that when he and Sen. Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) visited China over a decade ago, they "watched China rapaciously take advantage of America, of American jobs, of American workers, and American intellectual property."
"China's ruthless in how they go after us. They do it quietly; they do it with a smile," Schumer added.
In his praise of Trump's decision to impose tariffs, Schumer criticized former presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama for not confronting China's unfair trade activity.
"President Trump is exactly right this afternoon to propose a plan designed to punish China for its most flagrant trade abuses," Schumer said.
"The crown jewel of America, our free and open society that allows great thinkers to create great ideas and products, they steal it, and we do nothing," Schumer added. "Finally, President Trump is doing something, unlike his predecessors, so I commend him."
- MSNBC
3
@Dr. John
If China is stealing American's intellectual property, why are American companies expanding their presence in the Chinese markets? Wouldn't it be more logical to stay away from China, rather than complain about property theft? I need a credible answer to this one.
2
@Dr. John
Schumer is wrong here. He knows he is wrong.. but what he said plays well with blue collar workers in some states to some degree... and so he is actually pandering.
keep in mind Schumer is "old school senate" who generally are pro-isolationists.
@Guo
Because it's easier and cheaper to manufacture goods overseas especially in China, they hate unions and hate that they would have to pay Union workers more.
They are "import taxes".
1
@Chuck Lacy
Watch.....next.... Trump will tweet that he is using trade tariffs to fill the Treasury and somehow offset the $1T a year deficit his new tax plan for corporations has carved into our national debt.
1
I don't see any mention of UEC (uranium energy dot com, a global uranium extractor operating near my home); they tout huge profits and have numerous locations in South Texas as well as other places. Are the Chinese buying this uranium? Is it included in this round of tariffs? I wish the NYTimes would illuminate this operation, starting with the Burke Hollow, just upstream from Refugio. Nobody at the city level is aware of this operation, I found the mines on Google Earth.
"The Art of the Tariff"
3
Trump has no diplomatic skills. He is trying to make HIMSELF great, transferring his so-called 'golden boy' image in deal making, in business, into the world arena.
As a malignant narcissist, this man can destroy the US and drag his admiring followers down with him
Trump First is his clarion call..
This is makes no sense. When are people going to wake up to the wannabe mad king. This trade war is going to hurt poor and middle class people the most. When the big corporations start to lose contracts and orders in China which is what is said in the article then we will we see an about face. This is an ego trip for Trump.
1
I hope Donald Trump is not reelected.
1
Finally time to tell Trump supporters and Republican voters: happy now? See what you have done to yourself and the rest of us. This is all on you as you let your lowest instincts take over and cast a vote for a party and a person who very clearly were going to be toxic to the country you so hypocritically claim to love. Maybe next time, read, research and vote intelligently. That is true patriotism not wearing or flying a flag.
2
I guess this trade war will teach our corporations not to outsource their manufacturing to China with the help and guidance of our politicians. Trump really taught China a lesson by having the American consumer and businesses pay more for their stuff. Great work Trump voter. You're responsible for flushing the whole country down your hole. Hope you can afford those diapers at Walmart. The elites that you hate so much and have targeted for pain by electing Trump, can afford the price increases but you can't.
2
China will pay for the tariffs. Mexico will pay for the wall. We’ll all get tired of so much winning.
Donald J. Trump: Lord of the Lies
8
So much talk about Chinese companies stealing American technology when it was actually shared with Chinese companies in order to access cheap labor. That was the deal. You want our cheap labor to make your widgets? You have to partner with a chinese company and share your propietary methods and technologies. American firms, greedy for profit, were happy to oblidge.
7
With a sociopath in charge of the White House, it's not a big surprise that trade deals are poorly negotiated (NAFTA), or not done at all (China). What will it take to move the needle on Trump supporters? Most likely a real stock market correction, and a sharp rise in inflation. What's on the horizon to add insult to injury - increase in the debt ceiling, government funding, and the hurricane season. If Donald Trump's recent negotiations are any guide, he will mess these up as well. Hopefully, this nightmare will end in 2020.
2
I find it amazing that the media still characterizes this as a "trade war." China and the US were never close to an agreement on trade, and we never will be. China is in the process of remaking its economy from low value-added (manufacturing) to high value-added (technology), investing in other countries, expanding its military, and asserting itself on the global stage. In other words, China is trying to replace the US as global hegemon and rewrite the rules to its advantage. Trump is simply trying to use trade as a tool to thwart China's ambitions.
There are better tools than tariffs. For instance, Obama's Trans-Pacific Partnership would have allowed the US to set terms for trade and investment with 11 major trading partners, all while freezing out China. Unfortunately, the US is stuck with a President who is fixated on 18th century tools.
Another tool is massive investment in science and technology. In theory, a free, open society should trounce an authoritarian society, just as the US trounced the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Unfortunately, that tool would offend the religious sensibilities of Trump's base, so it won't be available for at least two more years.
8
These on-and-off negotiations have become a little too uncanny. I personally do not believe that Mr. Trump cares one wit about the trade deficit with China. He is where he is for one purpose only: to make money.
Is anyone looking at who is shorting the S&P in advance of all these so-called « breaks in negotiations » that have been going on now for some time. Every time it happens, the markets invariably tank the next day. A little too convenient I would say.
Who is profiting?
2
@DJ
Good question, good point.
In normal times, I would expect that someone or some division of our government would look into possible illegal market manipulations.
But these are not normal times.
@DJ My fear is just the opposite--the only issue he cares about is trade, and he's obsessed with the notion that trade deficits are bad. His heavy-handed tactics might work in some settings--does anyone expect them to work with China?
Honestly I think this may be a blessing in disguise, for example one of China's biggest exports to the U.S is seafood. I for one have always gone out of my way NOT to buy seafood from China, as the health standards are lower over there and the seafood is filled with heavy metals, pesticides, antibiotics etc, but if you go your local supermarket 95% of the seafood is from China (even those with the American flag on them that's "processed in America", but the fish is actually from China). I mean what happened did all the lakes and oceans around the U.S dry up? Not all of us are thrilled to pump these poisons into our body, so we can save a few dollars now only to pay 100 times more later on for Medical treatment.
Increased tariffs will make Chinese goods comparable price wise to many products made in America, so I suggest "Patriotic" Americans put their money where their mouth is. The people with the most to lose are actually billionaires like the Koch brothers who exploit Chinese workers so they can make huge profits in the U.S.
1
@M, so I would think you agree our President should do the same. Stop exploiting Chinese workers, who make all the merchandise his family sells, right?
We are definitely in a financial trade war with China... and the weapon of war that has been chosen is tariffs. As in any war, you need ammunition, and in a trade war, the ammo is money. Why and how does China seem to have the funds to wage this war? Maybe it's because China's military spending is 38% of that of the United States. For every $100 China spends on its military, we spend $260. This adds up to $300 billion annually... that's a lot of bullets for a "tariff war".
1
Reading the financial pages there are almost daily reports of American companies and Wall Street making huge new investments in China. So, consumers and farmers get hurt while investors profit. What could be more Republican?
5
I have a bad feeling about this. There are likely to be consequences we can’t predict, and it won’t be over soon.
3
RE: "...it will issue for public comment..."
Public comment periods are a sham and a farce. They are merely the window dressing required by law before government officials can do what they are going to do.
I've seen plenty of issues at all levels of government where the public comments against a proposed action far outweighed, with good reasoning, the proposed action, which in the end, was implemented as planned as if the comment period had never happened.
1
I for one would like to see Trump’s tax returns. Is he manipulating markets here for personal gain, or does he truly believe trade wars are a good thing for this country? So far all he’s shown is a complete lack of understanding about how tariff’s work.
9
@MissyR
The spying on Trump did not support your accusations.
@Dr. John
"Spying" has nothing to do with the fact that Trump doesn't even know what "tariff" means.
It’s as if trump doesn’t realize that China isn’t a democracy. He thinks the Chinese people can revolt against their leader if things gets tough for them... but Xi is untouchable.
Their capacity for economic suffering is a million times higher than ours.
America will blink first.
6
Again, if Trump suffers in the polls because the one positive he has going for him, the stock market, drops precipitously, China knows they can win the long game.
9
The current trade war with China, and probably another trade war looming with the Europe, is a Catch 22 situation, as the USA share market depends on consumers spending to increase stock market share prices; so the more taxes / tariffs on goods then the less goods USA citizens will buy because of all the price increases tacked onto the price of the goods USA consumers buy.
2
Supporting your industries with cheap loans and other help is something all governments could do. Its not illegal. China has 1.3 billion people , Europe and the USA about 600 million, expect China to achieve more growth, they have a huge market. We already have many plants in China producing goods and hiring Chinese workers. As tariffs increase more plants and production will move to this huge market.
Already the cost of the tariffs are at $800 per year for each US family and the GDP will fall at least 1% (Trillions of wealth lost).
Are we tired of winning yet?
12
The people who will not have their livelihood ripped away, those who will not lose their jobs will still tell you that this is worth the sacrifice. Those same folks will NEED to believe that Trump and Xi still have a 'beautiful' relationship and anything else is just the liberal press interfering with his success.
Hey, who cares about the consequences to those who you NEED to label 'lazy' and liberal, to make yourself feel good? The job statistics and the economy look great and wages have ticked up by a strong $0.25 on average. Only if you want it bad enough, YOU, yes you over there, can be wealthy too. It does not matter that Republicans in every state have worked against raising wages. You NEED to believe that these are strong conservative policies at work. The American Dream, which was not possible 2.5 years ago is now within every American's grasp, if they will just work a little harder PLEASE.
10
Keep living in your bubble. These tariffs will affect everyone! Rich and poor. But most significantly the poor who rely on cheap products from China and can’t afford made in America. Trump is not winning and will most likely lose this deal just like all the others!
1
@Jessica My post was meant to be sarcastic. Whether Trump loses or succeeds in his trade war, for his staunchest supporters, challenging China is a win. Stay sharp. Trump is wearing plot armor. It does NOT matter what the truth is.
1
I am convinced that the USA is now a nation that has to learn through experiential learning. We can’t learn from reading books, analysis by experts or even common sense.
Nope. We have to actually experience the negative impacts before we take positive action.
Trade, vaccines, climate issues, drug addiction, social justice issues, influence of big money etc. We have to go through it.
17
@Practical Thoughts - We just have to go through it.
Again.
7
@Practical Thoughts...yup, we are being stupid!
@Practical Thoughts
I am less optimistic that the Trump-GOP supporters will "learn". eg 46% Americans Believe In Creationism According To Latest Gallup Poll http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05/americans-believe-in-creationism
46% Americans believed in creationism, 32% believed in theistic evolution and 15% believed in evolution without any divine intervention. The data shows that the percent of Americans who believe in creationism has increased slightly by 2% over the last 30 years. The percent of Americans who believe in evolution has also increased by 6% over the last 30 years .
Most educated people today see the natural world through the lens of science rather than the Bible. That shift in perspective is largely complete outside the United States,
The Gallup poll indicates that more than 100 million Americans are not ready to abandon the biblical understanding of the natural world, insisting that the Earth is but a few thousand years old and that humans were created in their present forms.
Trade wars are good. We don't need MORE cheap things. We are over consuming --- plastic stuff that keeps piling in our homes, thanks to Amazon. Let's take a pause, please. The tremendous loss of biodiversity and rising temperatures requires us to choke the global productivity of useless things, mostly produced by China. Trump may be a blessing in disguise.
9
@Jay
And what about the job losses? What about the poor folks who can’t afford the more expensive items? Trade wars hurt real people. TPP was a trade partnership that might have reined in China without a trade war. Trump could have worked with the other signatories to make it better, if necessary. But he doesn’t work - just threatens, declares war and goes bankrupt. Poor us.
1
@Jay
You thought your phone was expensive BEFORE this mess sank in. Just wait. And just about everything is made in China, America doesn't manufacture things anymore.
1
Open your cell phone, your car, your appliance. Ask your doctor where you hip replacement part came from. Educate yourself. China produces more than "cheap plastic things"
Is China going to 'interfere' in our 2020 election? If the Democrats want to have better relations with China will that be 'collusion?' Any anti-Trump politician showing a wisp of friendliness to China, or having any sort of ties to Beijing at all, better watch out. It's going to be payback time.
1
If said candidate and their campaign staff shares information with China, encourages their interference, and favors them over our allies, they should be investigated and arrested. The sad thing is that you would consider that “payback”.
4
@DRB
Bone Spurs did it and that scenario is fine with the right and McConnell, isn't it? I mean he has suffered no consequences has he?
1
@david
No darling, China is leaving the interference of our election to their neighbour Russia, because the ex-KGB man Putin and BFF of Trump has much more practice in doing it.
2
As President Trump repeatedly makes the bizarre claim that China pays the US tariffs has anyone asked him how the United States will pay the chinese tariffs? Is there an american government department that will send the chinese state a check?
14
The European Commission in Brussels announced it had renewed tariffs on Chinese steel imports, some as high as 71.9%, saying producers in France, Spain and Sweden face a continued risk of imports from China at unfairly low prices.
Ironically, that's the same thing that Trump is saying.
5
@Dr. John How come low prices are unfair? Are high prices fair? If so, to whom? Competition is supposed to be the thing. So China chooses to put money into helping its industries so they can compete. How is this wrong? We give our guys billions in tax breaks and they make lots of profits but the prices stay high.We have increasing income inequality and the Chinese are improving their peoples economy each year, millions getting into the middle class as our middle class shrinks. How come ?
6
@RichardHead
Why is stealing our IP illegal?
@Dr. John
Trump doesn't even know what the word "tariff" means. He says whatever he thinks sounds good at the moment, nothing more. He could not explain any of that.
First of all: I do like the fact that China face some resistance because their relatively sudden growth to become an economic superpower is upsetting the economic balance in the world which in turn will create friction at many other places.
But Trump should not have tried to start this war all by himself, the USA had loyal allies in Europe who faces exactly the same problem as he does. The US and Europe could have, together, put quite a substantial pressure on China, but instead of asking for a joint effort Trump simply attacked Europe as well. For China, that is a dream scenario. Europe cannot really step in because, quite frankly, at this point in time, the USA is not a friend.
9
@Truthseeker Economic balance? We are a people of 300 million, China 1.3 billion,4X our size. China makes about 60% of what we make. They should make 4X with their population.We use 1/3 of the worlds energy and we are a very small number of people.
Balance? How come 400 US folks have more money then 60% (180 million) of the citizens? How come China put 300 million out of poverty and we have more poverty and shrinking middle class?
4
@RichardHead
I did not say the balance that we have is a good one, but there is a balance. I would not mind a substantial re-distribution of the economic resources but I would prefer that it was carried out by democracies. Lesser of many evils, so to speak.
@Truthseeker 45 said: “I alone can fix it”. So there he goes...
3
I believe the set of people who have done business with donald and not been burned is a very small set. The average American family now joins the large set who have been severely burned by coming in contact with him.
22
WWJD? (What Would JEB have Done)
If you want to understand the degree of Trump’s incompetence, imagine for a minute where we would be if Jeb won in 2016. I believe we would still have the TPP to counter China’s economic power, there wouldn’t be a trade war with China and Europe, we’d have European allies to mount a WTO action against China’s theft of intellectual property, and a Free Trade (i.e., Republican) administration.
And that’s just trade. Imagine how Jeb would have responded to Charlottesville. OK, that’s a trick question because if Jeb had been president, Charlottesville would not have happened in the first place. Right?
19
Under Bush we would still be steaming into the Arabian Gulf to wage a classic Republican and ruinous $3 trillion war in Iran, though.
1
Where is the uproar from the GOP?
The Trump GOP not only supports big spending and exploding deficits, the party now supports big tariffs and is silent at the prospect of trade wars.
25
About 85% of China made goods are consumed domestically. The US accounts for about 22% of the 15% that is exported, or about 3% of total China production. So a trade war with the US isn't exactly a show stopper for China.
Anyone expecting an easy resolution to a trade conflict with China doesn't understand their strategic mindset, shaped by a history of humiliation by foreign powers from Britain and France to Japan.
Unfortunately, farmers and factory workers don't have much to gain in this fight. Importers of intermediate manufacturing goods and commodities targeted by US tariffs are already deploying a China Plus One approach of moving supply chains from China to other countries.
Perhaps some US businesses have been naive about the risks of sourcing in China. But others, like GM, have successfully tapped into the 85% domestic China market with joint ventures, representing the largest part of their worldwide revenue.
The US is approaching Peak Consumer, with a large part of households financially tapped out. A better strategy is to focus on the educational infrastructure needed to develop the next generation economy rather than protect WWI era steel mills.
20
I guess the presidents before Trump should have stood up to China. Now Trump has to fix it. Alas, no more 10 dollar flip flops at Walmarts, but maybe more jobs for your fellow citizens.
3
@Saints Fan-We are at full employment. According to Trump the economy is the best it has ever been. Why would you want to reduce the buying power of working Americans in the best economy ever?
8
@Saints Fan What was the TPP that Obama put together? A long-term, strategic plan to surround and isolate China, so that our leverage v. China would be overwhelming.
With the TPP, we would have had alternative markets from which to purchase goods and alternative buyers who would have purchased the (mostly agricultural) goods we are no longer selling to China. Trump pulled us out of the agreement, but those countries went ahead and adopted it as the CPTPP. There are also several new bilateral free trade agreements between Japan, the EU, Canada and Mexico, so that we are being shut out of markets (especially meat sales in Japan). In addition, many countries have imposed punitive tariffs on the U.S. in retaliation for our steel tariffs. That reduces our strength in a trade war v. China. In a war, you want allies; imagine if we fought WWII against the Axis powers plus the Soviets?
10
@Saints Fan Read the piece. They did with little to no success, the same thing that will happen to Trump.
Does anyone else remember the TPP - Trans-Pacific Partnership?
You know, the one that included our 11 of our (former?) Allies - that Trump, and only Trump, withdrew from?
The other 11 countries - including Japan, Canada, Mexico, Australia, et. al. - continued to form their own trade pact.
Sure, it wasn't perfect but it had a collective force behind it.
But Trump wants to be a 'winner.' So, he tackles China by himself - only problem is, he drags the rest of us along with him.
I know Nancy Pelosi has her long-term strategy, but 2020 seems a lot farther off today.
34
@TMM Trump didn’t understand the TPP. All he cared about was wiping out all of anything Obama. And living up to his ignorant trade promises from the campaign rallies.
2
Instead of complaining about China reaching the capacity of other advanced nations to make cars and other high end technologies we should be focusing on our own technology and wining new jobs and American progress through healthcare, education, and investments in cutting-edge energy technologies, etc. All the money wasted in war and cutting other countries down, instead of building our country up. Useless.
25
@Sherry - I think USA adversaries understand that the best way to hobble the US is to continue to occupy its resources with low intensity wars/skirmishes around the world.
If the USA had dedicated all the money spent since 2001 on the Middle East towards technology and development, we wouldn’t care about trying to claw back 20th century jobs from China and Mexico. Instead we’d be expanding high tech clean energy/transport/infrastructure and medical-health care.
But nope. Mired in mess. Trade wars for the past, nationalism, culture wars and continued war.
3
@Sherry "we should be focusing on our own technology and wining new jobs"
Yes but China now issues more patents yearly than any other nation & has a plan to be the world`s leader in high tech products by 2025. eg Huawei's 5G platform is being adopted around the world in spite of the USA`s objections.
But do not feel bad , you have the new Trump-GOP universal , better , cheaper version of Obamacare , a huge tax cut for the 1% , a wall that Mexico paid for and tons of new coal mine jobs (imaginary jobs).
Every thing is great if you are the 1%.
2
Any retaliatory tariffs on Ag commodities offset by 100% rebate in free money from US Dept. of Agriculture. Caveat, this applies only to Red State MAGA lovers. California, Oregon, Washington, New York farmer advised to contact their foreclosure specialists.
11
Who didn’t see this escalation coming?
Trump has been trying to pick economic winners in key battleground states to ensure an easy path to reelection. We've all seen presidents use the office for similar purposes, but not on this scale and not by harming other Americans or the global economy.
Trump doesn't want to be president of all of America. He only wants to be president for enough Americans to win reelection. Shameful. Callous. Despicable. Unfit.
17
It is high time Trump sends a fleet of U.S. ships into the China Sea to show China, he is the master of the deal and will use all leverage points available to him. He just successfully did the same in Iran. He is also keeping the pressure up in Venezuela with implied threats of invasion. Meanwhile at the Mexican border great progress is being made on the wall and our troops are on high alert to stem that vermin invasion. North Korea is also starting to denuclearize under his tough negotiating positions.
It is truly breathtaking how many illusions this crazy man can spin and the American public can swallow. Real Clear Politics has his approval rating up to an amazing 45%.
So how many time bombs can Trump have in the air before they all come crashing to the ground on top of our heads? In the end we will end up like all the creditors he swindled. Bankrupt, dazed, and confused.
20
Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer told President Donald Trump to “hang tough” after the president threatens more tariffs on Chinese goods.
1
@Dr. John - Schumer also told him no money for a wall.
1
Good Luck Mr. President I hope you tweet about your flops of business deals.
3
Making Ronald Reagan proud, Government Bad.
The great negotiator is at it again. South Korea, North Korea, Japan, the U.N. laughing at him. He listens to Bannon and Erik Prince as well as Bolton and The Icebreaker Pompeo who all have the insight of a 12 year old adventure enthusiast. Everything in these people's careers have fallen flat, and now they are working on the entire United States of America.
10
Don't forget, only He can fix it.
4
We’ll have to cancel Christmas. All the presents are made by elves in China.
10
When Ivanka Trump stops manufacturing her goods in China and she stops applying for dozens of patents from the Chinese government, Trump can pound his chest and bellow all he wants.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/06/ivanka-trump-gets-initial-approval-from-china-for-16-trademarks.html
(So exactly what does Ivanka plan to do with her newly approved patent for "voting machines")
Let's ask Trump if any of his tariffs apply to daughter, Ivanka's, many Chinese goods or patents.
12
Wow!!!
I didn't see this coming (Sarcasm)
2
I am all for addressing trade imbalances, which do exist, and currency manipulation with regard to China. However, this needs to be a a policy adjustment that should stretch more than a decade. These quick, addle-minded plays of showmanship, of checkers on the global chessboard are going to have devastating consequences for us.
Yet again, the American people have been feeling the squeeze of corporate desires in regard to trade for at least 50 years. Whether it trade agreements like NAFTA or nonsensical arguments proffered in the USA that 'free trade' is always best. Large corporations dictate our political and economic policy and, in the USA, corporations are myopic, concerned about immediate stock appreciation, long-term strategic planning might, might, be three to five years. China is fluidly acting and thinking in terms of centuries and everyone knows it.
What do we do in the USA? We, ironically, incorrectly label single-payer health care as 'red-state' Socialism, we give corporate America ever increasing tax-cuts, we fund a bloated military industrial complex, starve infrastructure & education, we spend our time saving 'the coal industry' that only produces about 85,000 jobs.
Blinded by inequality and the deepening struggle to survive, we've lost our vision in the quagmire of corporatocracy and 20/20 will do nothing to address the far deeper systemic problems we face. What is happening with these tariff 'spats' is just another symptom of our myopia.
19
Brazilians are now mowing down the Amazon rain forest to make room for soy growing. They will, along with others, take the American farmers' market away from them, NEVER to return, at least not while this generation of farmers is alive.
9
@Sabre
Those very farmers voted for this man. So now they are suffering the consequences just like the rest of us only we working people don't get subsidized by the big bad government that those on the right have so much disdain for. Funny how that works out or don't those people understand that. Such hypocrites.
Why did Europe also impose tariffs on Chinese goods?
Dr. John ---not exactly. On April 9 " China and the European Union agreed Tuesday to strengthen their trade relationship, pledging to work toward making it easier for foreign investors to get access to China, the world’s second biggest economy."
"In a joint statement, the two sides said they committed to widening market access and eliminating discriminatory requirements for foreign companies and agreed that businesses should not be forced to transfer their technology — issues that foreign investors in China have long complained about."
2
@Dr. John. Because it is in general not a good idea.
@Dr. John
Does someone over there know what the word "tariff" even means? Trump doesn't. Is a tariff bigger than a wombat? Trump couldn't tell you.
Perfect example, for a guy that was $1 billion in debt, who hasn't paid his taxes for years, while we continue to subsidize him and his budget with our taxes, to play with the second biggest economy in the world.
Now the rest of us and not Trump will have to pay the Chinese tariffs for all of their products for ourselves. And Trump will continue to satisfy and reimburse our farmers for their additional losses, and subsidize them with our additional taxes and not his taxes.
The grifter-in- chief continues to steal from the rest of us while we continue to subsidize him with our taxes and the farmers, too!
28
Well, go figure that. So the Chinese and American companies simply increase their prices to compensate. The big loser here, as usual with Trump, will be the American consumer.
23
@sheikyerbouti
And the American workers will be the winners.
@sheikyerbouti
China is aware half the country hates our President and is willing to bring it to the brink to defeat him. If the entire Country would support him, at least in THIS effort, China would have signed already. We will do it for you and then, when we re-elect this President you can thank us all. Or call us deplorables whatever seems right to you.
@Saints Fan And American workers will be the winners how? Sounds like more Fox News grade school logic/propaganda. You need to do a little (yes just a little) thinking on your own how this fantasy can play-out.
Let's see for starters - the assumptions you are making: American companies are going to start investing billions of dollars in higher wages, higher healthcare costs, new building costs and of course let's not forget training costs for industries that haven't existed for decades. And they will do this gladly to reduce profits and not even have the goods in question available for production for years?
Can Americans get back to looking at the implications of some of these false assumptions or will a large minority continue to pay homage to the ultra-rich via Republican puppets and their surrogate puppet master tRump?
2
It is unclear to me the best way to resolve this problem (as it seems to be to the trump administration). There is little doubt that China has been a bad actor in international trade as it attempts to move up the economic food chain. Intellectual property theft, government support for industries while they "dump" goods to drive out competitors, currency manipulation have all been part of the pattern.
The problem with this approach is that it misses a key element of Chinese historical psychology. For a long time China was treated with distain by European nations (England and France especially) and plundered of resources and wealth. No Chinese leader can buckle to western intimidation and the demand that China instantiate western demands in their written law sounds a little too much like the "old days".
No matter the economic pressure on Xi that American tariffs cause China cannot give way to this type of foreign pressure. The trump administration needs to find a better way and a face saving solution for China. Unfortunately this isn't in trump's playbook either psychologically or politically where a zero sum game (or at least the appearance of total victory) seems to be the only option. But perhaps I'm wrong- no matter the solution trump will call it a "great deal" and campaign on it.
7
We are proud to note that in times of crisis America has had the good fortune to have the right person emerge to lead us through the trying times. We have had Washington, Lincoln and FDR for these perilous times. Sadly, our luck has run out.
This situation is an object lesson of what happens when one kicks the can down the road.
In the frothy days of the Reagan years when American companies were beginning their forays into off shore production in China, many had misgivings about the technology transfers and other onerous requirements of doing business in China. Still, they went forward without the protections that a comprehensive trade pact could have addressed.
Fast forward to today when the consequences of this short-sightedness are increasingly painful and action is required. Unfortunately, this task falls upon the most ill-equipped president in our history. With tariffs, tweets and bluff as the only tools in his kit, Trump blundered his way into a destructive trade war that has already hurt Americans and will only cause more pain.
Never has it been more apparent that elections have consequences.
8
Don't forget: Trump has also recently threatened to raise the tariffs he imposed on goods from our European allies too. And, his replacement for NAFTA is getting strong push back from Congressional Republicans, so there's no settlement on the tariff war Trump started with Canada and Mexico either.
So, we're potentially going to be further closing the door on trade with many countries, not just China. China knows that, so they have the upper hand.
Every good general knows that if you want the best chance of winning a war, you don't start wars with everyone in the world.
6
A basic question I've had since Trump became "tariff man": How is it that the President has dictatorial powers when it comes to setting tariffs? Why is there no role for Congress?
By the way, can any Trumpinista out there say with a straight face that if a Democrat president started raising tariffs like this, causing the stock market to tank, that they would not be first in line with vicious criticism? (Criticism which, by the way, would be totally justified).
9
@Andrew Kennelly
If the dem were doing it for the same reason as trump, then yes I would enthusiastically agree. I have been angry about our trade policies with other countries, going back to the same issues in the 1980s-1990s with Japan.
@Saints Fan
So you would agree if they were just doing it to entertain the rubes?
Trump doesn't even know what the word "tariff" means. He has no clue what he is doing. The only thing he knows is WHY he is doing it -- because the rubes love it.
At some point, we will realize that handing the Chinese billions of dollars and and our national security in the form of stolen technology and intellectual property was a huge, strategic mistake. If this means we pay more for goods produced by more ethical and and moral nations elsewhere, then count me in.
7
@TD
I'm wondering why the Chinese are the only ones that Trump hammers about `stolen' technology. The Isrealis have been doing the `hack thing' for years.
As far as demanding that manufacturers allow for in-country content (e.g. if you sell something in China, they demand to have a part of the manufacture process) other countries have been doing this for years (say decades). e.g. Great Britain, Spain, France, to name a few.
1
@Sabre
I see you cannot tell the difference between free and open societies, and an authoritarian one. You should look into that.
1
OMG. Nobody was handing China anything. China is such a coveted market that American corporations have been making the calculated choice that even if China stole their IP, it was worth to them for access to that market. And this stupid tariff war is not changing anything as at this point China is not only the biggest consumer market but the biggest manufacturer in the world. The only thing America has over China is intellectual capital as China is not a good innovator but if Republicans keep their war on Education going, just you wait. Republicans have our country on the right path to be the biggest, most ignorant Third World country very soon.
1
For those uncertain as to Trump's economic policy here, I think it can be summarized in one sentence. In order to save the American economy, it must first be destroyed. For those of you who didn't think the American economy was in need of "saving," join the club.
On a very practical level, for one group in particular, it might be time to plant something other than soybeans.
13
Or get their lily white booties back to school as the United States is not longer a manufacturing or agrarian society. We are a service economy so you'd better learn Artificial Intelligence or Data Science or Machine Learning.if you want to contnue making a living in the 21st century.
1
Through his bankruptcies and tax losses, the American taxpayer has subsidized president *'s personal failures for years. Now we have to subsidize his failure as a president.
And, since he's complained about unfair Chinese trade practices and vowed to get a trade deal you'd think he'd know a little about the subject, but he didn't even know American citizens are paying for the tariffs.
It seems to me the upperhand is with the guy who declared himself leader for life, not the guy who's desperate for reelection next year. Looks like the cost of MAGA hats is going up!
20
Alas it is really a pity that the greatest deal maker the world has ever seen never took time to enroll in Economic 101.
As his chief economics advisor has recently stated, both sides will suffer!
23
@Richard Huber
With ADD that severe, it is highly doubtful whether Trump ever completed any one-hour written exam at any time in school.
14
@Richard Huber
Tour gratuitous Trump hating insults aside, why did prior presidents allow the cheating and huge deficits with China.
Trump doesnt have ADD. He is seriously intellectually challenged. Not every body has the same level of intelligence and his seems to be on the lowest side of the scale so learning anything is difficult for him.
2
Expensive distraction! Another Trump failure...
19
Trump has this innate desire to pick fights. it's the essence of his existence. it's a personality disorder.
33
Funny. Trump raises more tariffs because the economy is `booming'.
He fails to mention that the reason the economy is booming is that we are now running a 1 trillion dollar annual deficit, supported by loans from our Fed (printed money) and loans from other entities such as China. This 1 trillion dollars is then plunged into our economy, such as for military spending. It is unsustainable, as interest payments on the debt now exceed military budget numbers.
Its all funny, because this is exactly how trump runs his private businesses, as reported by the NYT. Problem is, eventually banks won't loan him money, because he won't pay it back. That is why Deutsche Bank, criminal bank of the world, won't even loan him money. That is why I believe that his tax records will eventually burrow down to find he has been dealing with a sanctioned Russian bank.
Like Trump's private antics, this unwise economic policy will eventually catch up to the American system.
Sabre
17
This is beyond silly. Rally the base at all costs. Don't care if it hurts the base. Farmers still saying they support this president and his newly minted "doofus" economics. I want to go to sleep and wake up in an age without Trump.
33
Just like December, Trump, and his oligarchs, are crashing the stock market to mass more wealth. The greed factor si amazing.
On another note, the US just imposed a 25% VAT on all American consumers, and China has done the same.
In addition to ravaging savings, Trump is now fueling inflation.
No one wins a trade war. If this continues, it will certainly end in a deep recession, combined with out of control inflation (see eearly 1980s).
7
“Mutual trust and respect are of the essence in handling the negotiations,” said Zhu Ning--
So while Trump and his team are incompetent, thinking that tariffs are the way to confront Chinese malfeasance, it is useful that a US administration finally is trying to rein in their overbearing presence. The quote above from Zhu Ning needs a riposte of "practice what you preach". Chinese expansion is especially pernicious- ask the people of Sri Lanka who basically lost the southern part of their island to the beggar-thy-neighbor practices that are the official policy of Beijing. Same all over Africa and Southeast Asia.Their military expansion into the South China Sea and increasing threats to Taiwan underline where an unchecked China is heading. A robust and intelligent response is needed. Too bad we are stuck with Team Trump at this critical juncture.
8
Why is everyone so worried about soybeans? If China buys their beans somewhere else, whoever they buy them from will have fewer beans to sell to their existing customers. Those existing customers can get their beans from America. The supply chains might move around, but as long as the same number of people eat soy-based products, the market will get the beans where they need to be.
As for a trade war, did anyone expect that the other guy wouldn't fight back? It's called a 'war' for a reason. There will be (economic) pain, and people will need to adapt.
It needed to happen. I do wish we had a more linear person in charge, but I also know that it's easy to underestimate the crazy factor in a fight. Many a schoolyard scrapper has heard the advice "don't fight that guy. He's crazy."
2
@mlbex -- That why the farmers in Iowa are ecstatic over the tariffs. Also, the $12 billion in farm subsidies already allocated and the additional $15 billion requested is really a great deal for the U.S. farmers. Just think-- Trump can request $100's of billions to offset financial losses to China. This is the genius who lost $1.17 billion to cleverly avoid paying taxes. His genius can also be seen in how his supporters continue to back him and accept, without questions, what he says.
3
There is no market bigger than China for soy beans. Without China, there will not be enough demand for American soybeans. Period.
@mlbex
I wish we had a person who had an attention span long enough that he could learn what "tariff" actually is.
Want to go for a drive? Pick the blind man as driver. Great solution.
I, myself will examine the origin of products I buy, and if any are made in China, I will, when I can, buy a competing product.
Americans need to hang tough. America's strength is more and more connected to our economic strength. The trade war we are engaged in now, is one that should have been fought a long time ago. We will win if we stick together. China is counting on us not sticking together. Let us show them that they are wrong!
3
@Jack,
And how do you propose the folks that live in a Walmart-only town, which is ahuge percentage of rural America go about that when Walmart's very existence is based on cheap Chinese imports?
9
Good luck with that. I guess you will not be buying any new electronic device, appliance, car, business and office supplies, produce, clothing, shows, toys, make-up, medicine, and on and on and on. The United States is not a manufacturing country any more. We assemble a lot of stuff with components from China but produce almost nothing. This is not the 18th century. In the 21st century. we are part of a global economy where we have become a service economy while less developed countries, yes including China, are manufacturing and agrarian economies. That is why Trump and Republicans are failing. Each country is no longer a self-sufficient island. We all have to play nice even with those with a different economic system.
2
Try finding country of origin on Amazon.
Apparently we became accustomed to previous Presidents allowing China to steal our IP and hurt our economy with the Chinese government propping up their prices.
5
@Dr. John
We became accustomed to Presidents who had an attention span long enough that he could sit still for an explanation of what "tariff" means. This one doesn't even understand the basics. It's like asking a six-year-old to fly a plane.
Yeah, we have a problem. Therefore, pick someone who doesn't understand anything about it to solve it.
2
@Dr. John
Trump is doing NOTHING to protect IP or American companies (he only cares about trademarks) ... and his tariff campaign is causing sustained economic harm to US consumers and businesses.
Economic diplomacy is a complicated matter between different nations. It's not binary as Trump has clearly convinced you that it is. It requires actual diplomacy and compromise to achieve progress.. and it tends to be something that is addressed incrementally over a period of years.
2
In more than two years Trump's administration has shown only incompetence and inability to solve correctly a lot of problems. From immigration to trade wars, from diplomacy to healthcare, from taxes to the environment protection.
People is distracted by the fact that now the economy is going strong and consequently many jobs have been added in the last two years. But who is really getting the benefits? What would happen if the economy starts to go south? It seems to me that any regular guy would be left with more taxes to pay, no healthcare, domestic turmoil and division, more pollution and much less strategic allies to count on. So where is this great America?
15
Hmmm...
Let’s see if I can get both the hard-line progressives and conservatives equally torqued...
How about game-changing Sino-American joint ventures in:
> Aviation (a la Airbus)
> 5G Telecom (we’ve got some pretty good chip-level smarts
– they’ve got some pretty good ecosystem buildout and
some pretty sizable markets)
> Rare-earth mining and metallurgy
> Biochemistry and drug discovery
Getting both sides equally piqued seems to be May’s approach for ensuring she’s keeping to a centrist course...
And since UK’s whole secret strategy is to be able to negotiate some game-changing bilateral deals with the US and with China – why not pre-emptively hire her to get those our two warring factions together, first...
She may be looking for a new C-level post, shortly, anyway...
1
I am a life-long liberal and a vocal opponent of everything else this administration has done. But:
We should have never crawled into bed with the PRC ... An authoritarian, oppressive country with no labor unions or environmental protections.
America and other western democracies have bank-rolled China's "rise" at the expense of middle class labor and the health of the planet, while making the greedheads at home obscenely wealthy.
This trade "war" may be too little to late, and it may cause some short-term economic pain, but I for one think its high time we stop fueling the growth of China. I am happy to see prices rise at home so people stop throwing money away on buying heaps of junk and we can experience a return buying quality over quantity.
America has enough people, brainpower, capital and natural resources to be 100% self sufficient. We should use our strength to create a larger political and economic unions with our North and Central American neighbors and build out democracy, liberty and economic security in our hemisphere. Let China choke on their smog and drown in their plastic junk.
11
@Celeste
Great argument. Big problem.
Now pick someone to be in charge who has absolutely no clue about anything about it and thinks that the Chinese are paying all those increased costs that you are paying. Pick someone who is so incompetent that he can't even define the terms.
How do you think that will work out?
@Celeste Only reason the US crawled into bed with China is American companies greed for more profits, dirt cheap sweatshop labor, no EPA and no regulations. Like the addition of a drug, the US consumers are addicted to cheap, disposable goods.
If America was smart it would put 110% effort into rebuilding the manufacturing industry. The proliferation of robots can make this country competitive again but it requires leadership.
1
@Glenn
Absolutely. I stated as such in my comment. Glad we're in agreement!
Here's an example of how a 25% tariff works... a six-pack of white socks cost the Chinese $0.80 to make and ship to the US. They sell to the distributor for $1.00 to make a 20% margin. The distributor wants 20% margins so he sells to the store for $1.25. The store wants 20% margins as well so they price the six socks at $1.55.
So now we have a 25% tariff and the cost to the Chinese is now $1.17. He still needs a 20% margin so he now charges the distributor $1.47. The distributor stays at 20% margins so the stores pay $1.84. The store keeps its 20% margins so the retail price for the six socks is now $2.30.
So China keeps its 20% margin, and its profit has gone from $0.20 to $0.30. The distributor keeps its 20% margin, but its profit has gone from $0.25 to $0.37. The store has increased profits from $0.30 to $0.46.
So the government makes $0.37 on the tariff... China, and the distributor and the store are all winners. The guy who actually wears the white socks to work is now paying almost 50% more... he'd be the only loser in the tariff wars.
But as Trump will tell you, the end game is for the American sock company to get this business back to our shores. This could be tough, however, since the cost to make the socks here is around $2.00 per six-pack.
26
@Mark
Exactly right.
And I like that you presented it in a manner that the actual blue collar Trump voter can understand. They will however still vote against their own interests in the next election.
@Mark
The flaw in your reasoning is that there are other countries that produce socks. Wallmart and others can source from those countries with less of a tariff.
China is the big loser in this scenario.
These relaliatory duties are the tip of the iceberg. Given the trade imbalance China's ability to match tariff for tariff is limited so they are going to put pressure on US business in China and cut ag purchases.
2
I guess reality TV stars pretending to be billionaires really don't make great Presidents. Who knew?
36
@JW We laughed when G.W. Bush was elected, well, appointed, due to his storied history with businesses. The debacles that Bush created pale in comparison to the stable genius' success in losing a billion or so dollars.
9
You and I knew!
China still remembers in its national memory the one-sided trade treaties that the West imposed on it.
They are not going to back down.
And the epithet on the Trump trade policies will come from Kipling: "Here lies a fool who tried to hustle the East."
10
This trade war has never been and should not be about Trump and what kind of president he is. I also despise his idiosyncrasy fraught with overblown ego almost bordering on megalomaniac and his misogyny
Yet from the beginning this trade war is more than a issue of what he is and always been a matter of national security beyond Trump in reaction to the rise of China whose goal is to dominate the globe with his ever repressive authoritarian communism.
This trade war has never been about economy only, either, when you recall how China has taken advantage of the WTO and US domestic market as its cash cow by making a giant sucking sound of trade surplus while they used the surplus monies building up its military and occupied the islands of the South China sea declaring the whole sea as their territory and given that they never stop acting as institutionalized thief machine on a global scale on trade and military secrets from us while destroying the free global market order flooding it with cheap imports aided by the manipulation of exchange rate and government subsidy to its industries further backed by trade espionage through spy networking equipment like Huawei.
This trade war is purely political and our rightful reaction to the unprecedented existential threat to us like Reagan did to the Soviet Union.
Please let us not color our judgement on the true purpose and nature of this trade war by our political leaning and personal thought who Trump is.
3
@fleetingthought - You forget that the root cause for our trade imbalance is not China it is our large "American" corporations and CEO's. They are the ones that decided to off shore the work in search for higher profits. They are the ones that transffered the technology to China so that manufacturing could be done there. They were complicit in the destruction of the American dream for the average worker.
7
@fleetingthought I'd be more convinced by your argument if Trump hadn't simultaneously started trade wars with many other countries than China, including our closest allies.
And, he's talking about ramping up the tariffs on goods from those countries at the same time he's doing so with China. (And he is unlikely to get the deal with Canada and Mexico that he wants as Congressional Republicans see it as a bad deal and are pushing back).
1
@fleetingthought We, well, Trump and his supporters, continue to berate China and makes China the culprit.
I had not realized that China was on the boards of these companies that set up shop in China and coerced them into trade with China.
Put blame where blame is due-we the consumer in our quest for lower prices, and the greed of the suppliers and retailers.
2
The only effective way to force China to modify its trade policy is through collective action of the US and its Pacific allies. Unfortunately, Trump doesn't think that collective action is worth it because it would deny him the sole political spotlight. All of his policy moves are completely political. It's all about his base. That's why he is spending valuable time attacking Biden's dumb comment on China rather than working with our allies. He's already positioning himself to blame the Dems for this trade war. "The Chinese are dragging their feet so they can negotiate with a weak Dem in the White House."
6
Trump is shooting himself in his very tiny little foot; if he has ANYthing going for him, it's the economy, even though he has little or nothing to do with that.
Now with his ill-conceived trade war, he's taking down part of his base, red-state farmers. He said they would love and support him if he shot somebody on 5th Avenue; will they still love him if he pulls the rug out from under them?
Because he's the expert, is he just showing them how to go bankrupt?
Oh, how could I forget: China will pay for Trump's trade war. Just as the Mexicans have paid so handsomely for Trump's wall.
Have you seen those all those pesos flowing into our coffers?
Are we tired of winning yet? How about exhausted?
12
Now that the myth of Trump being a great business man has been shattered, which was about the only thing anyone really gave him any credit for. How long do we wait before he flushes this country down the plughole.
The Wall - Mexico will pay. Reality - The american taxpayer will pay or we'll shut down the government!
Tariffs - China will pay. - No they'll just increase their prices and the American consumer will pay and US to China export businesses will go to the wall.
He wrote The Art Of the Deal when he was America's biggest tax loser. It's obvious the guy is a complete Charlatan.
I am genuinely concerned that he's going to destroy the financial stability of this country with his bully boy tactics.
14
@Keith,
"I am genuinely concerned that he's going to destroy the financial stability of this country with his bully boy tactics." Which is exactly Putin's goal as pointed out in other NYT articles over the weekend.
Republicans were against these policies 3 years ago, but Trump is such a good businesman that well what could go wrong.
Maybe losing a few more trillion and watching United States Companies file for bankruptcy will help now that deficits no longer matter.
6
The tariffs imposed by China are evidently going to hit farmers and blue collar workers.
If this trade war continues, and the farmers and blue collar workers are badly hurt, they will take out their anger on him.
In the meantime, we all take a hit.
As I wrote this at 10:07 AM, the Dow is down about 580 points.
Buckle you seat belt, because the ride is going to get bumpy.
6
@Joe From Boston. The Republican Senate will never let farmers suffer. Legislators have already passed laws to compensate farmers for lost income due to the tariffs. That should prevent a few from going belly up.
@B. Rothman
$12 Billion in emergency farm subsidies is not going to bail out all the farmers.
Some have not yet sold LAST YEAR's crop, and are worried what they will do with another crop that they cannot sell.
That big a supply hanging over the market will depress prices.
The Siberian candidate is well on his way to paying back Putin for election help by wrecking the U.S. economy.
8
it isn't wrong to get tough on trade with China. trade has been one-sided and subsidies and demands to share technology are unfair.
corporations, in their zeal to profit, inappropriately gave away intellectual property that took decades and billions of dollars to develop.
that isn't going to be turned around overnight. but exchanging punches with tariffs isn't going to work and hurts all sides.
China can afford to be patient - they look out one hundred years. the president is looking for what happens tomorrow.
has he re-thought his statement that "trade wars are good and easy to win" or does he think that's working? if he does, he's the only one.
the president's adversaries are far smarter and more experienced. to wait out the election is a blink in their time horizon. the president's advisors are willing to tell the truth that the president will not - Americans are paying the tariff. not the Chinese.
is this part of the plan to get funding to build the wall? will interest rates rise if China doesn't buy American debt.
the president has lost his leverage. i'm just wondering when his supporters in congress and the public are going to figure that out.
there will be massive economic damage that China can absorb but Americans will soon start to make demands on the president.
using this situation to help win re-election is idiotic for everybody except trump. that sounds correct - he doesn't care about anybody else.
3
As a landowner in Ohio, I personally know that farmers can't take many more losses before they are forced to sell, go bankrupt, or give up and get jobs. This is a prime opportunity for Uncle Joe to hammer the Upper Midwest with his "good ol' boy" pitch. Tell Uncle Joe to get a plaid shirt and denim jacket and hid the dirt clod trail!
3
Or Auntie Elizabeth.
"Trade wars are good and easy to win." 3/2/18 DJT
6
Check out soybean and corn prices.....(Google)....
I for one don't ONE DIME of my taxpayer dollars going towards subsidizing farmers who, despite being run out of business by a man who doesn't even know what a soybean is, still support this clown.
Why wouldn't they support him? Now Trump is proposing propping them up with "Welfare" because of HIS stupid policies. IF I were a soybean farmer, I sure wouldn'tbet the farm on the sustainability of that.....I thought farmers HATED handouts.....those fine by the bootstrap red staters.....
If increasing benefits were handed to blacks or Hispanics like that, there'd be an uproar.
But salt-o-the-earth farmer welfare recipients are painted as poor victims...
Look at the price chart for soybeans for last decade and report back as to WHO was President when they were the highest? ( Hint...it's NOT Donald Trump).
7
Trump is doing a lot of damage to the USA with his isolationist policies and lots of nations around the world work together co-operatively so as to do trade deals and incorporate other pacts and agreements that involve reducing green house gases and waste in the environment,into their decisions when deciding whom to do trade deals with. If your nation isn't co-operative in cleaning up pollution then you won't get a trade deal, in the future.
USA also has lots of tariffs and protections on their agricultural products and other nations can't compete with your farmers in the USA so you can't expect foreign nations to do trade deals with the USA when they can join free trade agreements globally.
Also, lots of middle and upper class people in the USA will buy some foreign nations products because they don't want stuff produced in the USA full of chemicals and want organic food so even with your tariffs to stop other nations from competing with your farmers, trade still happens because people will pay more to get healthy food free from chemical sprays.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/389041/united-nations-plastic-waste-pact-approved-but-not-by-us
4
Maybe this will wake up Trup core constituents when they can't sell their crops and pay more for most consumer goods. I'm not saying China should not be dealt with, but it's not as simple as Trumps lays it out to be. Simple plans by simple minds will never solve complex problems.
5
It was a mistake from day one to trade with China on these flawed terms. Our short sighted capitalists did not care about selling out American know how (created by tax subsidized research and academia) and American workers for short term profits and so they could line their own pockets. Now it might be too late to fix that situation.
5
@heinrichz
As someone who has worked inside companies looking to expand their footprint into China (the worlds largest and fastest growing consumer market)... I can tell you that you are completely wrong here.
Trade with any nation is not bad... but to do so successfully, you DO have to play within the rule framework of the other nation if you want to do business inside their borders.
And like it or not.. most US corporations have been and continue to be completely willing to give away IP and other leverage for access to the Chinese consumer market. Oh they grumble about it, and make it into a mountain of an issue sometimes.. but they in fact do not hold back with giving these things away in order to gain access to the market the seek.
Trade between parties is always a negotiation. Both sides want the most that they can get in any negotiation, but the reality is that US corporations have very limited leverage with China, and China knows it.
There is also a huge cultural difference at play here. In China.. EVERYTHING is a "long play".. which is why they want IP and know-how... because that helps them build long term national self-sufficiency. US corporations are for the most part very short term focused (driven by quarterly performance to shareholders) and are often quite willing to give away things of long term value (like IP) for short term access to Chinese businesses and consumers. China is patient... US corporations are not.
1
@Chucks ‘ they give away in order to gain access to the market the seek.’ That’s exactly what I think is wrong and it happens at the expense of American taxpayers and workers out of corporate greed for more profit. The profit will be short term though as the Chinese eventually end up building the stuff themselves once they have appropriated our know how.
Trump proves yet again he has no clue what tariffs or a trade war entail, and now US consumers and businesses will be footing the bill.
9
Has anyone thought to look at Trump’s stock market dealings? His history of market manipulation is legion. It seems like every time he raises tariffs the market goes into a slump. It would be very easy for him to sell short, announce tariffs, and buy back at the lower cost after the market slumps. Based on his history I would bet this has been a reality. After all, to Trump, the only thing that counts is what is good for me. The SEC should look into this.
23
@Mike Bryman
For many years, Trump has stated that he is not a fan of the stock market for his investments. He prefers investing in real estate, in which he has greater control and can win. My feeling is that he is smart enough to realize that the stock market is often a rigged game.
@Jack
China is not the only country which can make products cheaply. If Chinese products become more costly, other poor countries will come in eventually and fill that gap. Wouldn't it be nice if countries in Central America made more products to fill Walmart shelves, and their inhabitants not feel the need to enter the U.S. illegally for greater economic opportunity?
2
Trump's pulls all the money out of everyone's pockets, blows it at the casino and makes the taxpayer pay for it with $1 billion in losses. He his it in New Jersey and he's doing it in DC. He walks free while everyone else stares at losses, bad debts and empty wallets. Ask the people that worked for him what they think of their former boss.
7
I am a firm believer in the benefits from free trade. Tariff taxes distort allocation of resources as efficiencies from comparative advantage are lost by all trading nations.
Trump and his key advisors want permanent tariffs. Many of his key advisors openly advocate permanent tariffs while Trump fraudulently misrepresents that he wants to use them only as negotiating tools. It is Americans who pay the price for USS tariffs on foreign goods. We pay in the form of higher prices for both imported goods and for similar goods made in the US. The only people who benefit at our expense are the small number of people who are employed by or own the US companies making similar goods in the US.
The American people are betrayed by most Republicans since they support Trump's unilateral imposition of tariff taxes. Americans are also betrayed by most Democrats since they have returned to their 70 year long embrace of tariffs in order to benefit one of their favored constituencies, the industrial unions. Americans have been betrayed by both political parties.
3
@Errol
Were you betrayed by our previous Presidents allowing China’s theft of our IP?
@Dr. John
Do you think the current President even understands what IP is? Why?
I think we need to seriously look into whether Donald Trump, his agents, or employees are profiting off of the markets based on inside information/bad faith tweeting/planning. If one simply knew when Trump would tweet or plan tariff threats, he would be able to profit on the gains after shock losses. Ivanka, Jr, or other agents of Trump could have this prior knowledge, share this knowledge with foreign entities, and reap the benefits in other countries. Let's see the finances of all Trump employees and business connections. There is no piercing of the corporate veil necessary you have hid behind your entire life. You work for me. You are not my boss. By my small donation in taxes to your expenditures, leisure living and self-dealing, I demand exposure of what is being spent by your cohorts. As a person, under We The People, I demand the Truth from this administration, and each following administration's actions.
It's easy to sit back, and scurry into our tribal sects (Democrats, Republicans, Independents, and Non-participants) and pick sides based on false knowledge gained through the endless sea of media for profit. But to trust a person's word so much that you disregard any rational thought and questioning, you are threatening your own liberty, and the liberties of our fellow Americans who deserve the truth. We The People do not Trust Kings. We The People trust the Process and Zealous Search for the Truth. It's time for a wake-up call.
18
@Thomas Jefferson You are right. We should all know. But then what can we do with the information? We have one political party now that will do nothing and citizens who vote to keep that party in office no matter what. Knowledge is power only when corrective action results from it.
If there is any silver lining in the latest trade shenanigans by our thief-in-chief, we might finally see some manufacturing shift out of China. Whereas our noble American companies have sold us down the river in transferring billions (trillions?) in hard-earned technology to our Asian friends, this painful transition might move sources of important products to a less devious source country.
I understand the economic efficiencies of unfettered trade, but for anyone with open eyes, the political impact of the impoverished MAGA acolytes has been devastating to our country.
3
@Frank Do not repeat the myth that Trump supporters are "impoverished," at least not financially, when 70% or more of the voters in a district vote for him and every (R) on their ballot who supports and protects him, They are teachers and union-wage workers that earn more than teachers, real estate developers and contractors, doctors, bankers, small business owners, police officers, farmers and even federal employees. Their support for him is ideological, not economic.
@abigail49 Point taken, but I still believe there is a very substantial economic component, at least for segment of his followers. Probably a good portion each of R and D voters will vote their party regardless, so it is a narrow band of swing voters that can turn the tide either way.
The Dems have become infatuated with solving "cutting edge" social problems such as LGBT issues, transgender problems, and the like. Joe and Jeanne worker feel forgotten by their natural party, and in desperation will follow anyone who sounds willing to help them.
As much as I dread the effects of higher tariffs on the wallets of average Americans (many of whom are barely scraping by despite this administration's rhetoric to the contrary), China’s Premier has to feel compelled to fight back against our President’s bullying, strong armed tactics. Higher tariffs for Americans will be felt sooner rather than later. This will not portend well for Trump’s re-election prospects in 2020. And that is very good news.
20
@Cassandra G.: Don't worry, Trump's supporters will find a way to blame Obama for this mess. I just wonder how our local right wing Conservative, Ride Farming, Millionaire Congressman is feeling right now since virtually all of his rice goes to Asian and mostly China. Oh I forgot! If he can't sell it in Asia, the Federal Government buys is. Its rich farmer welfare.
2
@Cassandra G. I disagree. Trump is already being hailed as a hero to the working class as he single handedly will bring jobs back to the U.S. At least according to one of his 10,000 plus lies.
Trump has gaslighted those supporters into believing China is paying huge sums of money into the treasury and it is believed.
This action will boost Trump's support among his adoring masses.
@Cassandra G. I second that, being good news for his re-election prospects. At least, I pray it is so.
1
I fear that China has much more resolve than the US. They have been very clever in obtaining deals that allow them access to trade secrets. The Chinese government has total control of it's people and have an advantage.
5
@Pepperman and China has a President For Life, which is something that Trump and only dream of.
Trump is used to looking tough by overwhelming his contractors and opponents with costly lawsuits. That's his only economic move, beside bankruptcy. He is not capable or intelligent enough for this battle.
42
All the "best people" aren't able to advise him properly. The Wharton genius with the "best grades" is not able to outsmart the Chinese. The "smartest" men are now out of the White House, leaving trump to probably not listen to the 2nd and 3rd tier appointees. Welcome to America until we fix this in 2020. Hey, friends, let's vote like there's no tomorrow, which is almost true...the no tomorrow part.
30
Oddly, this piece has helped to overcome the despair of the great extinction Margaret Renkle writes about in her heartbreaking essay this morning. Why? Because here is the giant hand of opportunity writ large that will force us to live with less.
All of our tiny measures we take as individuals to make our world a better place sometimes seem hopeless in the face of the gigantic forces, foreces we all contribute to when we consume.
Growth, the much touted panacea for what ails us, is now killing us one micro bead, one hazelnut, one sushi roll, one gizmo at a time.
I see the stock market tanking on the news and I cheer! For me, it spells a short term pain for long term gain - an adjustment to the trajectory of extinction of millions of species that will not spare our own.
We should take this opportunity to become more resilient and sanguine about its effects on our future. Yes, there will be tough times ahead for many. but not as tough as they will be if things continue on as they have been.
I see that my darling Phoebes did not make it up from Florida this year. A brutal winter that would not stop stopped them cold, but I see other birds, birds I've never seen before. We need to be those other birds.
8
Ah Mimi. So true. Thanks for this.
I sure hope our democrat "representatives" in Washington DC are working feverishly on-
Getting Trump impeached.
Getting Trump's tax returns made public this week.
Getting Trump evaluated by psychiatrists.
Getting the Trump's family and "friends" security passes revoked.
Getting back to work on making life better for lower and middle class.
13
Why waste time with psychiatrists? The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder are all obvious.
2
@Hal
It doesn't matter what the House does, McConnell aka the Grim Reaper has already vowed to have any bills sit on his desk without them being heard or voted on. The senate hasn't worked in years why start now?
The current deterioration of trade relations between the world's two largest economies is not a good thing. Over the short term, it will hurt both countries, with repercussions in most other nations.
But, it is probably necessary.
The fact is, trade between the US and China has not been on a level playing field for years, and it is appropriate for President Trump to try to bring things back in to balance. It is unfortunate previous administrations did not do the same.
Over the past years, China has exacted a high price for American companies that wished access to Chinese markets. US firms were required to hand over their most valuable asset: their know-how and intellectual property. This was wrong, and the long term negative consequences to this country are severe. Much of this damage to the US cannot be undone, but at least we can improve things going forward.
China can manufacture at lower cost than the US, which has shifted much manufacturing to China. There are both good reasons and bad for China’s low costs. China has tremendous talent, but they also treat their workers in what many would call inhumane ways, and their environmental protection is not rigorous. It is nice the cost of consumer goods in the US has dropped so much, but there is a downside.
We are currently experiencing the proverbial game of chicken. But this will pass, and we will be better off for having taken a tough but fair stand in our negotiations. Trump is acting correctly in this matter.
2
@Alex Hoosier here. Check with your neighbors who farm soybeans. They may not be quite so charitable.
12
@Alex
Then why is he lying when he says China will pay for the tariffs and not the US? Like everything he does, he never tells the truth.
11
@Alex: No one forced huge American Companies to open factories in China. They are doing so in order to make huge profits. Trading their knowledge to the Chinese for a cheap work force, lax safety, and no unions is so American. It makes them billions of dollars at the expense of American workers.
7
An interesting element of all this shows up in the agricultural impacts. Our farmers were always favored in trade agreements since 40 senators represent 10 percent of the population in states with a heavy agricultural focus. Simply put the trade agreements had to get past these 40 senators to become law. It seems farmers just assumed this is how things worked in the natural order of things. Now that our agreements are falling apart they are losing the benefit. I hope they are happy with the moral high ground they chose when they voted for president.
33
How can wiping billions of dollars off the value of American companies possible be good for the US?
14
Another Trump failure. No one with any intelligence or a strategic mind takes him seriously. Trump’s laughable bullying and exploitation tactics have left America vulnerable to long-term failure.
23
@Ben Amen to that, brother!
My 401 looks like the Chinese flag.
All red.
15
It’s tragic that American soybean farmers think Trump is protecting their interests. A failed real estate speculator and reality television performer with likely criminal ties to foreign racketeering can hardly be expected to understand international trade.
Trump will declare victory no matter how many bankruptcies and suicides our farmers suffer as a result of his policies.
26
@Bill
Famous Trump tweet farmers never saw because they are too busy working the fields:
"Just what IS a soybean anyway?"
4
Isn't it time for the president to demand that China pay for the Wall?
39
@Lew Of course. Mexico will be paying the tariffs on Chinese goods.
4
On top of the increased sticker price for Chinese goods, how many tax dollars are we also going to have to shell out to placate the farmers and other exporters affected by this retaliatory tariff? Once again, this President reveals himself to be a massive incompetent who is controlled by his own insecurities.
14
@Aussie: The farmers have always gotten paid by the Feds for their crops that they cannot sell.
@Jeff I know that. And yet he expects China to not engineer its economy with subsidies?
1
@Aussie We need to remind Trump that bailing out the farmers is, well, socialism, that cursed program we Americans don't need.
3
Good Lord! Trump send a carrier battle group into the Persian Gulf, threatens to go into Venezuela, and now this! I think he wants a war—with just about anyone. A classic diversionary tactic of autocrats.
Really, it wouldn't be so bad if there was a check on Trump's knot-headed schemes but somehow, the entire Republican Party has just laid down and played dead for this goofball of a president. It's astonishing to observe the GOP go along with virtually anything Trump chooses to do.
If Hillary Clinton had been elected and chose the kind of behavior that Trump has exhibited for over two years, they would tar and feather her. Instead, McConnell & Co. just keep issuing hall passes for Trump while they stuff the courts with doctrinaire arch-conservatives.
We're in for a long haul of bad stuff before—or if—any resurrection occurs. What we really needs is an honest conservative party.
30
@Bob Burns
Better still Democrats in government.
6
@Bob Burns They sold their soul for a few pieces of Russian silver via the NRA. There is no Republican Party anymore, it’s the party of Trump/Putin.
1
Normal people understand a trade war sinks all ships. A tax is a tax, whether a Sin tax or a Sino tax. Where are the Republicans?
11
It’s tragic that American soybean farmers think Trump is protecting their interests. A failed real estate speculator and reality television performer with likely criminal ties to foreign racketeering can hardly be expected to understand international trade.
Trump will declare victory no matter how many bankruptcies and suicides our farmers suffer as a result of his policies.
9
ATTENTION WALMART SHOPPERS: big price hikes are coming your way. Let's clean up aisle 45.
26
I guess I had better really start cinching up my belt and get ready. This is not going to be pretty.
2
I am very surprised that Trump can still get away with his claims that China pays the tariffs he put on their gods and that the money they pay is helping the US economy. With that he, of course, maintain the support from his base, but... well, on the other hand, I guess this is just another instance where I have to accept that logic has no place in modern politics.
10
@Truthseeker 90% of Republican voters believe everything that Trump says and support everything that Trump does. I once voted for Republican candidates for public office because in Illinois some Republicans were better than their Democratic opponents. No more.
9
@Truthseeker
I heard on NPR this morning that Larry Kudlow admitted Americans are paying the tariffs and Chinese imports will become more expensive. Trump contradicted Kudlow with a tweet. What a sham this administration is.
1
Correct. Or his base just doesn't get it. Either they are too dumb or too stubborn.
he's just picking fights to feed red meat to his base and to distract from news of his business failures, posturing as a great negotiator, when really these ill informed policies will likely hurt the US more than China.
11
Nobody wins in a trade war. However, not everyone loses 'equally'.
Having lived in (full resident) and done business in China for nearly a decade, including directly with state owned enterprises, I support President Trump's approach.
5
@Ami- Of course you support Trump. He has requested an additional $15 billion in farm subsidies to go along with the $12 billion already allocated for farmers. I guess that Trump can request more subsidies for other areas hit by Chinese tariffs, that way no one loses.
What a genius.
3
@cec
Thank you for informing me about farm subsidies - which have no bearing on me.
Perhaps you felt it 'genius' to allow China to trample on US businesses (for the advancement of 'globalization')
1
As a result of China’s intransigence, US manufacturers and clothing firms are turning to new suppliers outside China, as well as buying more from US companies.
2
@Dr. John- Does that include Ivanka Trump? BTW-- where can one find this information?
10
The U.S. should be happy that Trump is negotiatin with China. His business acumen and clever actions saved him about $100 million in taxes in the late 80's and early 90's. Although he lost $1.17 billion during that period, he cleverly outsmarted the tax man. What a genius.
6
I do not like many policies of Trump but I support his overall goal of controlling unfair trade practice of China at global level. Almost all stores have materials made in China. With surplus US dollars, it has built South China Islands, threatens all its neighbors, built global empire and military and spies on US from Argentina {NBC news} . It has controlled repressive autocratic society; it controls their social behavior as though they are robots (Social Scoring System, recent news}, controls wages, strike by labor, where they live and how they live. How free and open societies can compete in trade with such a nation? However, Mr. Trump needs friends at national and international level in developing political and diplomatic strategies. Unfortunately, he won election by bullying all his opponents, media, and thinks that it will work at international level. Let us get ready for wild ride with increasing US budget and trade deficits till 2020. May be his base will shift.
3
Without a grand strategy for industry, the tariffs will be a hit and miss approach. And it will take years to sort out. The essence of this approach is that (a) Chinese goods will be more expensive, so we will buy USA goods that are less price competitive. This will increase demand for USA goods. But it will also cause inflation, so the real income of workers will decline. (b) Chinese raise tariffs on our goods, and then Chinese switch away to other goods; our demand goes down and the Chinese experience inflation and a lowered real income. (c) That the Chinese export more to us than we to them means they have more a stake in the short-run. However (d) they own strategic minerals for our electronics.
Will the future be better than our past give these moves on the economic chess board? Do Trump and Ross and Menuchin know what they are doing?
10
The United States doesn't produce a 10th of what we buy from China including every piece of electronic component in your phone so to think that this misguided tariff war is going to help American industries, is naive and ignorant. And because we do not produce anything, you have no choice but to continue buying Chinese stuff at a higher price now because a tariff is a TAX imposed on consumers, not producers, especially if producers have a solid monopoly which China does. So prerry much Trump just raised your taxes.
33
@Rosie
Maybe short term it has raised taxes, but maybe long term, it creates an incentive to start producing more in the USA if its products become competitive compared to China's. Who knows? China became competitive over decades since Nixon started relations. So it might take a long time to bring industry back to the USA and make us competitive again. The way we are going now even high tech is going to China.
This never had to come to a tit for tat gotcha game.In order to compete with China we should have taken a page from China & helped our factories to become competitive with China, by subsidizing our Industries. We have already done this with Agriculture , by limiting our production of wheat, we stabilized the cost of Wheat.Our only problem is it looks like Socialism , which Trump would never consent to,This is where Socialism makes sense. Our Factories would never had shut down & our workers would never had lost their Jobs,
Both Clinton & Obama could have done this but, Big Industry is the enemy of liberals, they prefer to see Americans workers to lose their jobs so the consumer would would have the benefit of low prices on goods coming from low wage labor like China & other countries.It was always politics and the public are the pawns, that lose.
3
Sick.and tired if this FoxNews-transcript rants. Explain to me with sources and proof how is that "liberals" hate American industry? If anything, we, Democrats, believe in education and would like to make it affordable for everybody so when a factory closes because the owners, rich Republicans, move production to another cheaper country, they can get another job. And we Democrats are the union supporters while your Republican boys are union busters. So how is it that we "liberals" hate American industry??? Turn off the T.V. and educate yourself.
2
Economics, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Other countries are filling the voids created by Trump's ill-conceived zero sum foreign policies. Once the dust settles, America's industries and farmers may find additional competitive pricing pressure and fewer willing markets to go back to.
20
Trump is so obviously vulnerable in his negotiations with China: any economy downturn will crush his chances for reelection. The chinese know that he will fold in negotiations when he gets closer to the 2020 elections, they can wait.
27
What was the Establishment solution used to stop China from stealing our IP and engaging in massively unfair trade practices?
5
Forming another trade treaty among the Pacific nations to compete with China called the TPP which Trump tore up.
15
@Sherry
Wrong. TPP (at best) would have helped American companies compete with China for other 'Pacific' markets, but would have done little or nothing to improve China's treatment of American companies.
3
@Dr. John The past trade policy of Bush and Obama was simple appeasement of the Chinese tough trade policies.
This is all a game to Trump, and he has absolutely no concept of strategy. Like chess, but you don't know how the pieces move. How this man is President is still hard to comprehend. It
demonstrates a serious flaw in our election process - counting the days til he is gone.
37
@T.CurleyThere is no major flaw in the Election process. It’s been in place for centuries. The candidate that can motivate his/her base to go out and vote in huge numbers in the so called battle ground states usually ends up winning. Obama did it in 2008 and 2012. Trump did it in 2016. It remains to be seen if the a Democrats will get behind a candidate who can do that in 2020. If not, then the world will be in facing a financial, social and military catastrophe the likes of which we’ve never seen in our lifetime.
2
The flaw is called the Electoral College which gives too much power to the least educated and more dogmatic states. We are a blue country as the result every popular vote in the last 4 elections has shown. It is time to respect the will of the majority: for one person, one vote.
4
@Jules M...I respectfully disagree. The world is afar more complicated today than even 50 years ago, and significant experience and a deep knowledge of world affairs is essential. All things evolve, and our election process should too. Candidates need to prove their understanding of the system. They also need to prove ethical in past undertakings.
2
Please remind me: How many fronts is Trump waging war right now? China, for sure, and Venezuela too, Iran; oh and the EU. We mustn't forget those pesky Europeans. But I must be missing something/somewhere; though I can't remember for the life of me what, or where. It gets so confusing!
23
@Mark Alexander
Mark, you forgot your friends to the north.
4
You're no missing a thing. The Donald, he kept our boys from going over there so they could work at Walmart over here.
3
... Canada, Mexico, Central America ...
6
Tariff Man is on a suicide mission for himself.
13
We all know how deeply Donald Trump cares about the negative effects of this trade war on people he couldn't care less about.
8
We LOVE trade wars!
We LOVE debt!
We LOVE chaos!
We LOVE destroying our treaties!
We LOVE negotiating bad deals!
We LOVE angering our allies!
We LOVE the poorly-educated!
We LOVE know-nothings running things!
We LOVE obstructionism!
We LOVE cozying up to dictators!
But we hate facts; we hate the rule of law; we hate civility; we hate all people who live in elitist blue states; we hate all people who live in a coastal state; we hate all Democrats; we hate all women; we hate all people of color; we hate all Muslims; we hate all media other than Fox News; we hate having to obey the Constitution....
196
@Paul-A
That's called 'winning', which is the backbone of MAGA!
2
Letting Trump make tariff decisions is letting a bull loose in a China shop.
14
@Jay Orchard - I'm in the cattle business. Every bull I've ever known has had more sense and good judgement than Trump ever will.
Go for it!
Republicans vs China.
After all it’s only money (and jobs and livelihoods and stock markets and consumer goods etc etc)
10
Trump will blink first. He's up against a highly centralized, authoritarian society. Their leaders can control the message and squash protests. Trump, on the other hand, can't inflict pain on the American citizenry without free press criticism and the truth eventually getting out to his base of support. I'm not sure how long his supporters will buy the argument that China's picking up the tab. The farmers have been forced to accept Trump's talking point that "they're tough" and, besides, farm subsidies are on the way. The check is in the mail.
The only thing that matters to Trump is his 2020 reelection. The Chinese know this about him. Therefore, their new tariffs on us will be targeted to squeeze his Republican and base support.
16
@Dan
Guns and bibles?
1
Anyone who thinks that a trade war with China will bring back jobs to the US is not thinking correctly. Manufactures like Apple etc., will start to have their devices made in other countries-Vietnam,Cambodia etc.,Manufactures will always seek out the cheapest source of labor -and that is not in the USA. If we did manufacture the goods here the extra cost would be borne by US consumers-which would be inflationary-so that is not the solution.
China is objecting to us telling them that they have to enact certain laws. We certainly would object if China told us we have to have our Congress pass legislation that favors them. For whatever reason I assume that they have agreed to "Administrative" actions and Trumps team(if you want to call them that) are not satisfied with that because China has not kept its promises in the past.
So, a middle ground must be found on that issue and the issue of intel property. However, Trump and his hard right advisors are playing a Zero sum game-all or nothing. And this is the great deal maker.
People we are in for a long trade war with China-they need to save face-and Trump wants to smack them in the face.
So long as Trump is President and we have 29 investigations going on concerting him. His Presidency is a lost cause and Americans will just have suffer for a number of years.
22
@Den
29 investigations, and secret spying, on a political opponent is harassment.
@Dr. John
And Hillary's emails !!!!!! Where were all those indictments...?
Unfortunately, it is in the interest of both sides to have the fight rather than the deal. China have to convert to a consumption driven economy anyway; their current economic growth model is not sustainable. Having Trump and US as the evil enemy causing the pain from that transition is perfect for the leadership in China. Trump on the other hand can only win in the short term (at least with his base) by bashing China and blaming them for the ill effects of unregulated predatory capitalism. The only question is how long he can keep the illusion going that "trade wars are easy to win". Trump seem to believe that he can easily bully China into submission and use the win to get re-elected. I am not sure he has a plan B (or C) when it turns out they don't budge - and he has backed himself into a corner because the tariffs cause a lot of pain here in US.
4
Sure, and we, the United States are going to tell China how to run their country by imposing a tax on American consumers. Not to mention, the United States has absolutely no moral standing to tell anybody how to run their affairs based on the dumpster fire our own is these days.
3
Either Trump has no idea what he's doing and is just pulling the throttle because he can and it plays to his base well, or else he's not concerned for our long-term trade relationship with China.
Let's be clear: China plays the long game. This means anyone that does not play the long game will eventually lose to China.
20
Anybody that hasn't figure out Trump is way over his head and he REALLY doesn't know what he isdoing. The most concerning thing is not that Trump is a good for nothing guy, it is conservative and Republicans letting him destroy the country so their masters can get richer.
Mexico will pay for the wall, China will pay the tariffs.
From America's perspective, the American tariffs are funded by American customers. The money goes to the American government and so is a source of revenue (it was how the country was funded in its early decades). The Chinese tariffs are funded by the Chinese - but the effect is that American export revenue is depressed by lower demand.
So the more the tariffs, the more the government raises its revenue and the more American citizens and companies lose.
Some suggest that this is a plan to cause diversification of the supply chain, or the support for returning to domestic production. But in effect, both result in making the higher cost permanent - with a gradual redirection of that money from government revenue to the added costs of the poorer alternatives. So in the end, we just pay more so that our President can pretend to negotiate and continue to distract us.
11
President Trump needs to understand the purpose of the economy is to increase the standard of living of the people, not protect a small number of jobs at the expense of everyone. Is that too much to ask? It is fine to fight for a level playing field with two different economic models, but tariffs are not the way to get it done.
16
Where are the Republicans in Congress? Trade deals have to be ratified and the President shouldn't have unilateral control over trade. We live in a republic, not a monarchy!
26
@mjw Congress has bequeathed a lot of it's power to Executive branch in this regard. You are correct, Congress needs to ratify any trade deals (treaties).
However, tariffs are not a deal. They can (arguable) be classified as an enforcement / regulation mechanism, and Congress has essentially transferred all regulatory authority to executive branch...
2
@mjw
Half the time. Specifically when a Democrat is the president.
The rest of the time we’re a GOP condoned monarchy.
1
As someone who needs to buy a car and a washer/dryer in the next year, I am not happy. Thanks for nothing, Trump. You just took money out of my wallet, and for what?
43
@Erin
Why, for the same fine deal the "artist" made with Mexico paying for the wall, Nuclear weapons are gone in N.Korea and Trump wuvs Kim, ISIS is now dead (surprise to the recent victims) and of course, no collusion with Russia ( and don't worry about Giuliani recently wanting to return to Ukraine to dig up dirt on an AMERICAN citizen. THat's not collusion).
Don't you get it?!?!?!??
Now be quiet and look at your beautiful 401K.
2
But you benefited from that huge tax-cut he gave to himself and the Koch brothers, didn't you?
3
Why would any country do anything as it concerns the US until it sees the results of the 2020 election?
8
Good & easy to win right?
3
China’s foreign exchange reserves at US $3.1 TRILLION in April are the world’s largest. China has a significant war-chest to endure any difficulty, even a trade war with the US owing to Trump’s tariffs.
China Foreign Exchange Reserves
https://tradingeconomics.com/china/foreign-exchange-reserves
The self-appointed Deal-Maker in Chief has learned nothing from his business failures. He lost one billion in business losses over ten years to 1994 and went bankrupt four times.
The self-appointed Negotiator in Chief is a fundamentally lazy performer who is long on threats but short on delivery.
His lack of intelligence on the trade file, or any file, is breathtaking !!!
But none of the comments of revulsion and horror expressed by concerned citizens, responsible media or in the NYT register with the Twitter in Chief. He takes advice from no one, believes that he is above reproach and is always right on anything and everything.
What do you do with someone who is digging a hole to drag everyone down to doom? You take away the shovel.
49
@Gerry O'Brien “What do you do with someone who is digging a hole to drag everyone down to doom? You take away the shovel.”
You hit the sucker with the shovel, bury them, and get out.
3
Maybe President Gaffe wants to go down in a blaze of conspiracy theories and laughing all the way to the bank. I'm beyond shock and disgust with this administration. He is totally unqualified for the position he had handed to him with the help of Russia and he is propped up by the party responsible for his "rising".
15
@Shelley Holland Please let's not forget the role the Electoral College played. We must do something about that!
5
Wow. Who could have guessed ? Excellent " work ", stable genius.
Thanks, GOP. 2020. Bigly.
43
And so it begins. The ruination of the world's two biggest economies by a "stable genius" with a "very large brain." Pea brain is more like it.
13
@Christy mark my words: this will not ruin either economy.
However, it will provide a lever for China to strengthen itself relative to US long-long term (both in terms of soft power, as well as in terms of formal trade deals with other countries around the world).
How can I say this? Easy. China is looking at this long-term, whereas Trump only cares about how this plays with his base this year and maybe next. Any time two sides have this type of dynamic, the side with the more strategic view will always dominate in the long run.
Because for them, it's a simple matter of time.
4
Think of this as last night's episode of Game of Thrones, with China the side headed by an unaccountable despot with a dragon.
@Applarch We have our own despot right here in the U.S. What are we doing about it?!
1
Talk about a mess!
4
No tariffs on this stuff, though:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-flags/made-in-china-trump-re-election-flags-may-get-burned-by-his-tariffs-idUSKBN1KF1D6
1
This is making America great again, right?
7
As I recall, NPR reported last week that there was a deal. China walked away because they like the status quo: a verbal agreement they can misinterpret and twist as they like. And, of course, politicians of both parties can wave a meaningless agreement in the hands at election time. Trump's team wanted a contract that China claimed was demeaning: deals are easier to break when they are not in writing.
This situation was inevitable. China must accept being a fair partner and honor a deal. I have to believe that, beyond the xenophobia, greed, and one-ups-manship, there is a greater sense of fair play that rules men's hearts and heads. Or, perhaps, I am a hopeless idealist?
2
I had been wondering what could possibly happen to bring this recovery into recession...Banking? Natural disaster? Housing scandal? Fed?
How about a self-induced-hyper-inflation where consumers find themselves faced with a 25% jump in prices and they, literally, stop buying?
I'm no economist, but I bet that would do the trick.
31
@RonRich
No economist here, but in addition to inflation caused by increases in U.S. tariffs, wouldn't the result of Chinese tariffs be reduced demand for U.S. goods in China ? If this is the case, what will be the impact on profitability and employment in U.S. companies that produce goods for China?
1
Does Trump know that one of the causes of the Great Depression was the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act? He trashed the TPP so we now have alternative, but to "grin and bear it". His red state supporters can't sell their soy beans and other products to China. The Trump voters buy merchandise made in China at Wal-Mart and other stores like them. The Chinese will and are not payng the tariffs, the American consumer is.
Then there is Kudlow whose knowledge of economics and trade is open to question. For heaven's sake can't someone in the GOP show some spine and stop this latest madness.
80
Trump does not read at all, according to the ghostwriter of The Art of the Deal. Trump gets his information from Fox and Friends. All the free-traders are gone from the White House, leaving only nationalists and sycophants advising him. So unless Fox and Friends is talking about how tariffs led to the Great Depression, Trump doesn't know about it.
26
Bannon & Trump threat China with a trade war and the Chinese see it as a real possibility with bad results. This is clearly shown in the Frontline documentary “Trump’s Trade War.” Da Wei is Assistant President at the University of International Relations, Beijing.
STEVE BANNON: “I think the goal in China is quite simply to break the back of this totalitarian-mercantilist-economic society!”
DA WEI: “This is my optimistic scenario: That we will have a managed tension.
But we do have the pessimistic scenario: We do have a chance to see a new cold war. I don’t think like the one the U.S. had with the USSR. But we will have another type of cold war that nobody have ever experienced.
That’s dangerous. That’s really dangerous!
And if that happens—if that happens, it will last for quite a long time!”
6
Great show. Worth watching.
1
Is this what "winning" a trade war looks like? My 401(k) doesn't seem to think this is a win.
32
You take a profit or loss only when you sell. Otherwise it's just a fiction on a computer screen.
@Timmy -- yes. And my "fictional" balance has only recently fully recovered from the last "real" event in 2008.
3
Don’t you think we need a woman to work this out? All the guys seem to make things worse.
14
@Albert in CA Really? Do you really think that gender is the issue? "All the guys"? You mean Trump and his advisers are not "All the guys". This is as simplistic as Trump himself.
2
So much 'winning!' Have you gotten tired of winning, yet?
Even Larry Kudlow has told the president this is a wrong-headed move. 2020 cannot get here quickly enough...
39
This is stupidity at play.
Trump and his fellow travelers will relish in the harm done to China ,gloss over the pain to American consumers and all ignore the longer term damage to our global economy.
The one law that does prevail is the law of comparative costs.
Jobs will move from China to Vietnam not to the USA meanwhile we are disqualifying ourselves from the largest consumer market in the world , China. Relation ships with the rest of the World and China will develop excluding us. The Rest of the World is also tired of the USA interfering with their Sovereign rights of deciding who they should trade with and find a way to bypass the Dollar.
What we should be doing is manufacturing high value goods , encouraging China and others to open up their consumer market and working on eliminating intellectual theft if any still exists.
We should be building the global economy not destroying it.
Last but not least Trump, protectionism is a key Socialist strategy.
13
Needless aggression from a position of weakness. The Chinese still dont know how to deal with trump.
1
"Needless aggression from a position of weakness" describes Trump. Except it's only in his mind that a trade deficit necessarily makes us weak. Its just the only variable in a complicated give and take that he can wrap his mind around.
5
@There I don't know how to deal with Trump, either. Do you?
2
Biden is so far out it, and cares so little for American workers that he said:
“I mean, you know, they’re not bad folks, folks. But guess what, they’re not competition for us.”
2
@Amy
He was talking about China, silly.
As the "stable genius" in the Oval Office once said, "Trade wars are good, and easy to win.”
So much winning....
11
The “bankruptcy president” can’t even reach a trade agreement with a highly motivated trading partner.
What an incompetent fraud.
58
Maga folks don’t care. As long as we stick it to all the coastal elites, you know the ones that moved to the cities from middle America to make better lives for themselves. Spoiler alert, it’s the farmers aka the new patriots for paying the price by losing their farms and tax payers get to pay again by bailing them out for 15 billion. All this winning is too good to be true.
20
@Jay
Unfortunately, we coastal elites are the ones bankrolling their states and preventing them from becoming third world backwaters.
They’re already living off other peoples money, what happens when we coastal elites can’t pay their welfare?
2
So much for the "easy win." Evan non-economist Chief Economic Adviser, Larry Kudlow, admitted that a tariff is really a tax, a national sales tax that will inflict "pain" for consumers, especially those already struggling. Now with China retaliating the pain will spread to manufacturers and farmers who will incur additional costs or even the loss of customers. It's time for sanity before Tariff Man Trump's attempt to beat China into economic submission ends causing economic chaos here and abroad. Congress has the Constitutional authority over tariffs and they finally need to assert it or stop complaining about executive overreach.
8
I'm surprised China hasn't used their nuclear option; stop buying and start selling off its holdings of our government bonds that are supporting our deficits.
21
“Mutual trust and respect are of the essence in handling the negotiations,” said Zhu Ning, a Tsinghua University economics professor”
Unfortunately, China will not find that to be the case when dealing with Trump and his administration; if they haven’t learned by now. Sadly, the majority of Americans and the world already know this is an administration that does not know the meaning of the words ‘trust’ and ‘respect’ so bargaining in good faith is going to present a tremendous challenge.
21
"Bargaining in Good Faith" with Donald Trump is the perfect example of the meaning of the word oxymoron.
10
Hillary wouldn't have made these freshman mistakes. Mr. Trump's of foreign trade is amplified by his hubris. This will hurt jobs in exchange for a tax on consumers.
58
As I understand, Chinese do not like to 'lose face.' Mr. Trump is taking a trade position which would force changes in their laws, surely a humiliation.
Would we accept another country trying to force our legislature to change our laws? I don't think so. Why would the Chinese submit to our demands?
This trade war is going to have a bad end.
62
Pay attention America...your "president" just wiped out whatever temporary benefit you got from his "greatest tax break ever". He doesn't understand economics or global commerce.
I am all with those that say that China has abused trade privileges.
But those issues could have been worked out through diplomatic channels...oops, forgot. Trump. Tillerson and Pompeo purged the smart guys at the State Department.
Ok, the issues could have been worked out through the WTO or TPP...oops, forgot he pulled us out of these protective organizations and those are history as well. So we have to go it alone because we don't have the strength of alliances. Even teenagers and preteens from their experience with computer games understand the strength of alliances and teamwork.
To those of you who think we just have to tighten our belts and tough out the ramifications of the tariffs which actually punish YOU, just remember that Trump probably doesn't know the price of a gallon of milk, can buy all the belts he wants, serves junk fast food to honorees at the White House, and his clothes fit just fine. The emperor's suit doesn't show wrinkles, doesn't need tailoring, and no one can see if it fits or not.
How are y'all doing today?
November 2020 is fast approaching.
166
@Mountain Dragonfly
Not fast enough for me.
3
@Mountain Dragonfly. Not fast enough to save us from Trump and his Republican Enablers. Down with Constitution Trashing McConnell and all others!
2
I am a buyer for a wholesale plumbing distributor. Our customers are Plumbers, Builders and Engineering firms. I have gotten several emails this morning already about the increase in costs of the commodities (fittings, valves, etc.) we buy from manufacturers. Manufacturers that lease or have plants in China.
As soon as our prices go up, we will pass them onto the Plumbers and they will pass it on to public. Simple math.
We are one small segment of the economy, but one that effects many others. Trump's trade war is going to hurt a lot of consumers.
I guess the next book by trump will be: How To Destroy A Prospering Economy
251
@rslay
You can wait like five to ten years for the manufacturers to gradually move their productions to Vietnam, assuming it's as cheap to produce the commodities in Vietnam ...
10
@Nick
I'm sure many companies can't wait that long for them that timeframe is unsustainable. The man in charge currently taking up space in the WH is an incompetent fraud. IF this is what winning is like I'll say no thank you.
5
@rslay I also see the same thing happening in the electronics industry. My cost for electronic components are going up and I have to pass these on to my customers. Some electronic component distributors list the import duty as a separate line item so it is very obvious what the true cost of Trump tax is.
10
"“What should be concerning to markets is how close both sides have gotten to a deal before one side backs off,” something that has happened again and again, said Hannah Anderson..."
The more this happens, the more credibility the president loses--as if he had much to begin with.
For someone who attended the Wharton School, he show an amazing lack of understanding of how basic economics works. if course we know he only got there due to Fred Trump's large donations inducing the university to create a special lower-level program in real estate development just for the Donald.
He's playing with fire now. Once a trade war starts, he may find it tough to stop. I can easily see a monumental global slump occurring based on this economic brinksmanship.
The American people are yearning for stability these days. Fat chance with this war of wills between two presidents in charge of the two largest economies in the world.
43
@ChristineMcM
Trump's degree was a strictly quid pro quo transaction—degree for a big donation by Daddy.
9
@ChristineMcM - I am not a gambling man but if I had to bet who will win between the two presidents, I find it hard to bet on the guy that almost lost his shirt in the casino business. The poor man can't even make a decent bottle of vodka with all of his Russian connections. Sad. So sad.
I really can't picture president Xi getting into a Twitter war with Rosie O'Donnell at three in the morning.
14
Trump will leave another mess for a Democratic President to clean up, like Obama was forced to clean up the economic collapse Bush made.
2
Somebody keeps forgetting that China is a major holder of US debt. At $1.2 trillion, China owns 28% of all debt owned by foreigners. The ultimate retaliation would be for China to dump that debt on currency markets and refuse to buy any more. If China was to demand payment all at once, the demand for the US dollar would plummet . The US would have to find new buyers for that debt, causing interest rates to soar. That could make 2008 crisis look like a walk in the park. China plans in 50 year horizons not just the next twitter cycle.
54
@Sam
At $1.2 trillion, China owns less than 5% of our debt.
That's nothing. The vast majority is held by citizens or domestic institutions.
6
@Sam I'm guessing that the Chinese have done their homework that this "nuclear option" would have a calamitous effect on the US economy, which then couldn't continue to buy as it does now from China. This, in turn, they have determined, would result in a trickle down, domino effect on all of the world's economies, and they don't want to take that chance. They, too, have people who went to Wharton, but who actually took the time to learn economics.
15
@Sam,
Then, they have to explain to billions of people why they must starve. It is often a question of who owns who: the bank that lends money or the debtor who owes the bank.
This shows that increasing tariffs alone does not work! And this is the only card that Trump has held in each negotiation he has been involved with.
4
China can and will retaliate in other ways. They can stop buying our agricultural products. They don't have to issue tariffs. They can develop new agricultural producers in South America or Africa. China always plays long ball. They don't worry about the next election.
China is also holding some very big cards. China has a lock of the world's supply of rare earth minerals. Everything that has electricity moving through it uses these products. They make up a tiny fraction of the devices, but the devices will not work without them.
China also produces most all of the chemicals that we use to make our medicines. They also produce many of our generics.
What I'm driving at is that China is the sole source of critical, strategic materials. The net dollar amount they represent is a tiny fraction of GDP, but without them, entire industries would shut down.
This is why a macroeconomic analysis of trade disputes are misleading. It's not the net net value of the goods affected that can be significant. It's the associated activities and industries that are held captive to those goods who can be decimated.
If Trump goes through with a 25% tariff on everything, Christmas just got 25% more expensive.
153
@Bruce Rozenblit
Yeah, but the generic medication is often contaminated. Recently the public was warned about Valsartan and Losartan blood pressure medication which was made in China and had an additive that causes cancer.
It has been taken off the market.
Do like your comment about Christmas just got 25% more expensive. Just don't buy stuff for Christmas.
4
@Bruce Rozenblit Not to mention they hold $1.2 Trl of our debt. But I am sure trump just imagines he can stiff them in some way according to his business model. Cancel some bonds, or put the US in bankruptcy and cancel the debt.
25
@Bruce Rozenblit
We need to reduce our dependence on China. Your laundry list convinced me of that. Trump isn’t smart enough to figure out how, but it is an important goal.
17
Why wouldn't China be able to match, dollar for dollar, the US tariffs? If the US imposes 25% on imports worth, let's say, $600bn that translates into $150bn of tariffs. The Chinese could raise tariffs on US imports which are worth roughly $200bn to 75% which translates into $150bn.
Most likely, that would lead to a drastic cline in Chinese imports as will the 25% on US imports from China and in the end, both countries will suffer.
Having said this, even Trump should be interested in an equitable deal. The concern about Chinese trade practices is very valid. I am not so sure, though, whether putting China against the wall will work. This is not just a real estate deal amongst New Yorkers.
7
@W
Why don't Trump raise tariffs on Chinese imports to 1000%, then you get $6000bn a year, that's $20,000 per person. Nobody needs to work in the US anymore!
2
And if China decides to 'call in' our debt it owns that Trump grew to trillions, the U.S. will be bankrupt. Or, China could just stop trading with the U.S., or both. Does this administration have no concept of consequences?
71
@Chris
China can't call in the debt. It would have to sell it. IF they dump it all at once, they would lose a lot of money and the renminbi would go up in value in relation to the dollar which would reek havoc on their economy. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
8
@Chris
China buys t-bills. They can’t “call them”, as I understand t-bills to work.
4
@Chris
In response to your last question......no they don't. They haven't a clue. He thinks he's the smartest person in the room, cold hard fact, he isn't.
8
I've noticed that Trump isn't having any problems with tariffs when it comes to the goods he manufactures in his sweatshops in China.
AND he's managed to obtain more trademarks, as well, including trademarks that were denied him when he was NOT president.
Is anyone really surprised?
Considering that the Republican party was against these trade wars three years ago (Before Trump became president), why would anyone be surprised at how corrupt, inept, and absurd not only Trump is, but the party that used to NOT support his policies.
211
Anyone know if MAGA merch is produced in the USA?
Or is it China?
58
@MissyR - The official MAGA hats are made in California by an 80% Latino workforce. Knock-offs (like Ivanka's shoes) are made in China.
https://www.businessinsider.com/inside-trump-maga-hat-factory-california-make-america-great-again-2018-8
2
@MissyR China, of course!
Every day brings new chaos with Trump. He’s a terrible executive; personally uninformed and encircled by a team of sycophants and no-nothings. It’s a tough job, especially when you have an unchecked ego and no experience.
We need a seasoned White House administrator to manage the country while Trump plays president. Give the country, the markets and our allies a break!
45
One man’s ego and narcissism is creating instability on our planet which is being supported by a party afraid to do what’s right.
How long will we let this huge error continue?
203
@Rocco Capobianco
Until we implode. Next up, war with 1-3 countries as a distraction and ego fulfillment.
5
@Rocco Capobianco Dunning and Kruger effect describes Trump. People are not only incompetent; their incompetence robs them of the mental ability to realize just how inept they are.
Incompetent people tend to:
Overestimate their own skill levels
Fail to recognize the genuine skill and expertise of other people
Fail to recognize their own mistakes and lack of skill
5
Here we go.....
9
The hazard of treating economic negotiations as zero-sum games of 'winning/losing', as Mr Trump has done, is that the other side is more or less forced, as a rational actor, to adopt the same posture. When the one forcing zero-sum negotiation is also politically weak and disruptive to his own negotiating team, as Mr Trump is, the other party will, rationally and predictably, take advantage of his weakness by pushing hard at the last minute (thus explaining what Mr Trump has called 'reneging').
Thus: by framing the negotiations as ending in 'winning' or 'losing', while also continually weakening his own position, Mr Trump's negotiating techniques have led more or less directly to the current impasse and its increasingly negative macroeconomic consequences.
The Chinese economic strategy is by no means harmless. But by setting himself up to be such a loser (especially by alienating so many potential allies in this struggle), Mr Trump has exacerbated the problems that China's approach already causes, and has encouraged the Chinese negotiators to be more confrontational and to seek to dominate the US -- as they are currently doing in the negotiations.
So much for the 'Art of the Deal'!
140
@Pquincy14
Thank you for recognizing that Trump has attacked the US's longest and loyal allies along with his ill-thought out Trade War with China.
Where once allies would try and support our sister economies under stress, we are no longer so inclined.
3
Well thank goodness trade wars are easy to win.
Otherwise I'd be worried about my costs of living going up, only to have the trade dispute resolved to the enrichment of CEO's and large companies instead of myself.
I'm so tired of all this winning.
Sure hope all those unsold soybeans don't rot - but if they do at least it will be Hilary's fault.
391
@Nick I needed a smile this morning-very funny.
15
Lock her up! Lock her up!
6
@Nick
here's a thought: Maybe Trump really believes that China pays the tariffs? What if he still does not understand that the tariffs are paid by the buyer, not the seller? If so, he might actually be convinced he is winning. I know, it is very unlikely, but he still tweets about how much China is paying :)
11
Trump is doing the right thing, by forcing the United States to DIVERSIFY its supply chain. At the moment, if the Chinese decide to boycott the United States, they would likely shut down our entire economy in a matter of weeks. Stand your ground, Mr. President! We need industry in the United States!
8
Tariffs don’t work. They never have, and they never will. They are a regressive tax on U.S. consumers. Bad policy, but no surprise from 45.
242
@Elliott History has proved repeatedly that trade wars hurt both parties. Trump is using a canon to kill a mosquito. His assertion that China will pay all of the costs associated with increasing tariffs is a lie. We have a serial liar as POTUS.
29
Oh right. American workers will be paid like Asian workers. That’s a great idea.
14
Trading with China has always been about short term gain, long term suffering. After 30 years of trade with China, the non-coastal parts of our country have been riddled with Food Lions, addiction and chronic unemployment among the able-bodied.
To break this dysfunctional arrangement, we will have to have some short term pain.
8
@Jonathan
Unfortunately a lot of that pain will be felt by people who are already suffering financially. And I'm not talking about shareholders.
91
Tariffs are taxes, paid by the American consumer. The Republicans are committed in public statements to opposing increases in taxes, yet the leader of the GOP is raising taxes big time.
76
U.S. farmers don’t deserve this.,
9