Everyone should be jittery. What we are all really seeing is the face of our country’s “1 %” dividing up the spoils with China’s “1%”. It’s disgusting how blatant the whole thing is and, our media is reporting it will cost us all more. AND, it will probably be the new norm.
Good grief, how can people go beyond rich so far that they aren’t anything average people could even comprehend?
What does it look like?
A never ending desire for more?Control over existence itself?
Who might such market manipulations benefit?
1
This consumer will be drastically cutting down on non-essential purchases. While Trump is telling farmers that extra funding for them will come from income based on the new tariffs, the fact is that I, for one, will not be writing them a check. Why does no one correct the so called president on this erroneous opinion? Additionally, thanks to the new "tax cuts" I won't have any extra spend anyway.
1
Turns out trade wars aren't easy at all.
3
This trade war may have looked great on paper but in reality when negotiations are instead threats and ultimatums everyone involved loses.
3
Even a deal cat....
1
The market is up 1.5% today.
@Dr. John. That’s what they call a dead cat bounce.
1
How wonderful that Trump inherited a booming economy and market and will destroy it just in time for a Democrat to take the blame.
The myth of the big R continues.
8
Time to put the adults in charge because the children are distracted.
1
And now Trump will give BILLIONS in subsidies to farmers (paid for by the rest of us) because his trade policy has crushed them, and he can ill afford to lose their votes. Can we now finally lay to rest the MYTH that Republicans really are supporters of “the invisible hand” of free-market economic theory. Hey Republicans, we can see your hands moving in the markets picking winners and losers. Funny how the “winners” always look the same, and the losers keep paying your tab. Somebody’s got to cut you guys off. Your addiction is racking up quite the deficit, and I don’t think you’re good for it.
7
Seems like most of the clothing labels I have checked lately say “Made in Vietnam.” I hope this shift from shoddy Chinese garments is permanent.
3
This is unnecessary disruption and chaos. It hurts more than just the U.S. and China. Makes one wonder if this isn't more of Putin's input through Trump.
5
So, it appears that this genius in the white house will eventually hurt everyone who voted for him (and unfortunately the rest of us too). Fabulous. Will his voters figure this out or even care? I doubt it.
5
Oh, that genius in the White House is such a bigly good businessman! Billions lost, as evidenced by his taxes, but he's the one who can navigate our economic waters. It feels so good to be on a sinking ship. God help us.
6
Why has the theft of US IP been allowed to occur until Trump came along?
1
@Dr. John
Is there a website anywhere that gives more detail on US IP theft? Just the most obvious, egregious cases would be fine.
Only, Doc, people keep talking about IP theft and I keep asking this question.
No replies to date.
1
Thanks, Trump. Soon we'll be reading stories about seniors, forced to take money out of their IRAs or 401Ks to live, and all the money they lost by selling low.
And those stories will be followed by ones describing how seniors are trying to re-enter the workforce, often with low-wage jobs, in order to afford their medicines.
And than there will be the stories of increased homelessness.
These outcomes are predictable. Remember when Republicans wanted us to put our social security into the stock market? This is why that was a dangerous notion. An idiot thinks it's okay to start a trade war, devil may care what happens to the folks who are affected by it.
2
Biden recently announced that China is not competition and now Xi is going to wait us out for a better deal with him.
To think that China reneged on a deal that was 95 per cent complete is unforgivable.
Biden has successfully demonstrated his ability to lead the country through economic malaise and now we can thank him for his stupid signal to Xi.
1
As American wars go, the Trade War is barely reaching mid-life. The Korean War has been hanging around since 1950 - the seemingly permanent Armistice has real staying power. The Af-raq War is approaching voting age. The War on Poverty?
No, the Trade War, which the US has been losing badly for decades, is barely 40 years old. Zhong Guo knows it can wait out Trump until 2021 or even 2025, then the old reliable US political establishment will return to its eunuch daze.
The Chinese Communist Party does not fear America. It fears internal unrest of the ilk of those pesky Uighurs or Tibetans or any of the dozens of other ethnic enclaves that require constant suppression. Or, the restless Han middle class that wants more of the goodies that the ruling class is hoarding.
Trump and America? Fools to be had.
1
Average workers contribute to 401ks weekly, automatically, with very little thought.
Maybe that's a good thing, IDK.
The brokerage houses automatically plow all their money into the selected funds because that's what they are supposed to do.
It seems to be either a miracle or the biggest, long fuse Ponzi scheme ever.
2
It is reasonable to expect that when Trump puts tariffs on Chinese goods that China would retaliate and put tariffs on US exports of agricultural goods, and that is where the harm is done by US tariffs on Chinese goods; US farmers would have to pay more to China (a tax) in order to sell their goods.
However, if tariffs on Chinese goods are really a tax paid by US consumers (as so many experts say), why does anybody in the US care that Chinese consumers are paying a Chinese tax when their country places tariffs on US goods? I suspect that there is a lie being told that everybody believes.
@Marty Rowland, Ph.D., P.E.
You're confounding two things here (so no, not understanding something yet does not necessarily mean that someone is lying ... ;-)).
If the US increases tariffs on products imported from China, then indeed, US consumers have to pay more for those same products, and in many cases they will. So it's a tax on US citizens.
When China retaliates and puts a similar tariff on the import of US products, then first of all, because China is a much poorer country than the US, many Chinese citizens won't be able to buy these products anymore. They will try to buy it from local neighbors, who still sell at lower prices. That also means less export for the US, however, so less paychecks for workers here at home.
China too will lose part of its export, of course, which certainly hurts Chinese workers too. So it will decide to no longer rely on trade with the US so much, and invest much more in local trade agreements with its neighbors. That will then give it even more power over the region, and make China itself even more powerful, all while more hostile and distrusting towards the US. And that is NOT good for us at all.
3
It's time for the North East and West Coast states to break away from the UNION and form a more perfect Union. We pay for all the poor states.
3
@Rick Tornello
Isn't not wanting to pay "for the poor" exactly what characterizes the mentality of the states you want to get rid of ... ? ;-)
The idea that what is needed to form a "perfect union" is that people somehow already agree on certain basic issues, is one of the key GOP "philosophy" today too. It's an idea that is perfectly useless, as in real life, we'll always have to try to live together with people who think differently.
So the only real - and democratic, non-violent - solution IF you want a group of people to move into the direction of a more perfect union, is to practice community building.
The good news is that we already have a lot of tools at our disposal that have been proven to work.
The bad news is that in many democracies, too many people still ignore those tools, and then start to imagine that in order to avoid problems, all that is required is that we find a way to get rid of those who are or think differently. And that's when the violence starts - hitting everybody, by definition, sooner or later.
People aren't born poor or ignorant, they are born as a human being, just like any other on earth. It's their life experiences that turn them into poor and ignorant.
So the real question here is: how to make sure that states with large numbers of poor and/or ignorant people, finally can create better conditions for their citizens?
I'm not in favor of Trump or the way this is being done, but I have three points:
1) Something needed to be done to get their attention. TPP might have done that, but that ship has sailed. We have their attention now, and as much as I wish we had a more skillful, strategic team in place, we don't.
2) The assumption that tariffs must be paid by increasing prices is incorrect. There are two (2!) piles of money that can be tapped to pay tariffs: prices and profits. Yes, profit is on the table too.
If a product is properly priced before the tariffs, it will be properly priced after, as long as it remains profitable. If they could have raised the price before, they should have done so, but they didn't. They made a calculation: profit per unit vs. volume. That decision is as valid after tariffs as it was before. Raise the price, lower the volume. It's the same calculation regardless of the tariffs.
3) Unless I'm mistaken, tariffs are applied at the wholesale level, not against the retail price. Take a bicycle that costs $100 wholesale, but retails for $200. A 25% tariff on that bicycle should be $25 or 12.5% of the retail price. The retailer who raises the price by 25% is lying, in hopes of fooling consumers into overpaying. If the profit after expenses was only $25, they could split the difference, raise the price by $12.50 and hope that it doesn't impact their volume too much.
I'm not pro Trump or pro tariff; I'm just trying to clear up some possible misconceptions.
1
@mlbex
What you call "misconceptions" are actually things that have been proven already to be true, as Trump started his trade war months ago, remember?
What you're doing here is just guessing about what might theoretically be possible, from your own, subjective perspective. That's not the same thing as scientific proof ...
1
@Ana Luisa:
Do you have proof that a tariff changes the correct price for an object, or that none of the money for the tariff can possibly come from profits? Those are truisms driven by the corporate propaganda machine to hide their share of the pie from consideration.
Do you have proof that an X% tariff on the wholesale price of an object must equal an X% price in the retail price and that no human decision process can interfere?
"... as Trump started his trade war months ago, remember?"
What does this have to do with anything that I wrote?
When economists start getting things right and making accurate predictions, I'll consider their proofs to be more reliable.
Trump must be on the verge of confirming that Americans will not be paying for the imposed tariffs because it is Mexico that will do this, using the money they saved by not paying for The Wall.
5
When studying many years ago, I remember being told something I have never forgotten: People with a little knowledge often feel that they know it all; but people with a lot of knowledge realise how little they actually know. That's why it is true, I suppose, that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Trump falls into the category of knowing a little, but being convinced he knows it all.
10
@Mark Alexander
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool" William Shakespeare
I think of this line everytime I hear Trump talk about how he knows more about any subject than anyone, and when he talks about his very large brain.
1
What I find troubling is that the Constitution gives the right to impose tariffs only to Congress, not the President. Even though Congress has passed a number of laws allowing the President to set tariffs, I don't see how these laws are constitutional.
To change the constitution is a Herculean task. Yet somehow, by passing a series of laws, Congress is able to in effect change the Constitution and say the President can impose tariffs, when the Constitution gives the President no such power. It’s time to nullify these laws and restore the imposition of tariffs back to Congress so the President, no single person, has this much power.
10
Sounds like the perfect storm, an over exuberant stock market, continued economic expansion in the US while the rest of the world is in a lull, tariffs that have to lead to rising prices and inflation, sounds as if we are headed for crash.
6
We are in a trade war with Canada and the EU. It's good to see us getting into a trade war with a Country that's not a Nato ally.
No collusion.
2
@HL
What did happen about the trade war with the EU? Sanctions from both sides and then, private talks between Trump and Juncker and then, silence. Mr President hasn't against mentioned the bad and unfair EU, the appalling rip-offs of hardworking Americans, national security, defence or his particular hate, German cars. Not once.
Here in the EU, I can't detect any effect whatsoever, so far, of the war.
Actually, way things are at the moment, this silence is ominous, Mr Bolton is probably planning the invasion of Europe, right now. Or after he's worked out Iran, Venezuela, China...
The odds of this lasting indefinitely are not very high. I, like most people favor free trade but something has to be done about China's theft of our intellectual property, electronics, medical systems etc. I'm not sure tariffs are the best way to go so I'm hoping cooler heads prevail. As for the costs related to the tariffs, why are they an infamnia (just watched The Godfather this weekend) while the taxes proposed by Democratic politicians well conceived and appropriate. Further, unlike the tariffs, these taxes never go down.
3
@Gary-
Theft? You likely posted this on a piece of hardware made in China designed by a US company employing engineers who are on HB1 visas from India and Pakistan.
2
@Gary
Tell us what thefts. Specifically.
Whatever you think of the trade war, letting a bit of air out of the asset bubble is welcome.
1
Trump has no leverage to threaten the Chinese. They have proven in the past numerous times that they don't care if their citizens starve and they have no internal opposition. Now that Trump has us in this tit-for-tat that we can't win, the only long term solution I see involves buying off farmers so they stop overproducing crops that would have gone to China and to massively subsidize investment in new factories so we no longer depend on China to produce our I-Phones, holiday ornaments, and clothes. Unfortunately, such a move will increase our massive debt even more and socialize the economy. China needed to be dealt with, but the right way to do it would have been long term investment in infrastructure and small business manufacturing, and a restructuring of farm subsidies so that farmers did not overproduce for the domestic market causing prices to fall. We could have beat China using long term strategic planning, but that would have taken a functioning political system, a luxury we no longer have.
2
Follow the money. I'ts going directly into Trump's pocket. Here's a man who knows how to manipulate the stock market and exploit it at the same time. Why does Trump love tariffs? It's loading up his wallet like his own personal ATM.
2
What is patently clear is that we have given presidents far too much power - in the case of tariffs dictatorial power. While this might not seem apparent when competent, self-restraining presidents occupy the White House, when a rogue one like Trump comes along the power they have been given is terrifying.
The first order of business when this nightmare has ended should be to rein in future presidents' capacity to wreak havoc on our core democratic principles and economic wellbeing.
10
@DesertSage Conversely, I could argue that the problem is not the power we have given presidents, it's the presidents we've given power.
1
Hold on to your seats folks because on top of a trade war with China and our European allies Trump now is pushing us into a real war with Iran. Our war president is taking on the world! Can things get any more uncertain? Watch as oil and gas prices shoot to the moon making Putin and the Saudis rich. Saudis will stand on the sidelines with glee as we spill our blood in Iran attacking their enemy. Our NATO allies will rightly refuse to participate in the Iranian invasion and Trump will use it as a pretext to pull the US out of NATO. Putin and President Xi will love it.
10
The Chinese granted Invanka her new trademarks on an expedited basis. Clearly they had not done business with the Trumps before.
5
Give Trump a week or so, he will get bored with this and forget about it... market needed a correction anyway. But if your smart, now is a good time to jump in for at least a 10% gain by end of the summer.
1
Trump's tactics prove he is reaping the benefits of Obama's economy and presidency, because it is obvious Trump's decisions only destroy all the good we have. His only success is being able to consistently file bankruptcy and lie.
7
Trump has no strategy, no grasp of the complexities of international markets. He lost a billion dollars in 10 years, trying to prove he was as shrewd a dealer as his father. He could not even run a successful casino, a failure akin to not turning a profit selling beer at Shea Stadium during a World Series.
Trade wars sink economies. Mercantilism went out with wooden ships. Even Trump's GOP enablers, who have allowed him to cage asylum-seekers, entertain dictators in the White House, ravage the environment and profit from private businesses while serving as president - all so those GOP enablers could make an extra buck - may think twice before lending their support to Trump's latest crackpot venture.
10
The "Obama restoration" is over; here comes the "Trump economy".
2
You get the government you deserve. If you want a stable economy and a rational government that works FOR THE PEOPLE then vote this amateur show out next year...because time is getting short for democracy.
6
Trump lost a billion dollars on his own. Now the stock market has lost over a trillion.
4
@Keith Dow For what it's worth, the august people at the NY Times lost $1 billion when they bought then sold the Boston Globe. As for the market, how much is it up since election day 2016? Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger both have said they ignore the daily fluctuations and look to the long term trends and I'm betting they know investing better than you (and definitely better than me).
2
How many times does it have to be shown. Donald Trump cares about chaos for the sake of chaos. No interest in coherence or working for the United States. No interest in the consequences of his actions. Chaos and his name all over media. That’s his priority.
5
Not to change the subject but how is that wall coming along? You know, the one down around Mexico/U.S.? Attention spans (or the lack of) will do us in, yet. And the Affordable Care Act? It might be wise to look behind or beyond any current chaos Trump creates, just to keep up with the backward rate of speed we're heading in on all fronts (pun intended).
7
Just because the rats of the stock market got scared it doesn't mean the world will end! They don’t care about our society. All they care about is money. I see lot folks here saying the trade wars or tariffs don't get any result. But they failed badly in giving practical solutions to the problem. We play by the rules and the Chinese don’t. We have a trade deficit of hundreds of billions of dollars! Do you believe that is macroeconomically rational?
Democrats and liberals love chanting about the “green deal”, clean energy, global warming and other cute things. They want the U.S. government to the rigid on environmental regulations. But apparently, they don’t care if China, one of the world’s greatest polluter, dump a lot of junk here.
I would suggest President Trump to hit the Chinese with even higher tariffs. We need a trade deal that work for all parties! Piggyback days are over now!
1
Hopefully it will only last until the 2020 inauguration.
1
Trade war? Describing it as such makes it sound like it's inevitable sparring between two countries, where both sides are accountable. Not really. Pure and simple, this is Trump insanity. The stocks were rebounding on Tuesday morning, but nothing changed overnight. Trump is still president. Republicans are still in charge. Are investors daft?
4
Just FYI - the market is up almost 1% today.
2
I just don’t know how I will manage if those clothes, tools, toys, and kitchen gadgets that are currently made in China by slave labor, are instead made in Central American countries.
1
Picture of worried broker - check.
“Grim outlook for the future” - check.
Rich unconcerned, poor at risk - check.
Game continues - check.
3
@James
Exactly what I think when they say "
"President" Trump is going to speak in the Rose Garden"
1
So there we go again. The GOP inherits a booming economy and constantly getting down unemployment rate, and what do they decide to do?
Once again ignore all economics and instead start their social experiments which, as history has shown, time and again lead to huge economic crises.
At the same time, they hire Iraq war architect Bolton, to once again start planning to send 120,000 troops to a Middle Eastern country that doesn't harm us and is not producing any WMD.
Dear GOP voters, you clearly don't want this. So when will you stop voting for the same catastrophic scenarios again and again ... ?
6
A trade war with China, getting ready for another Republican war with fake intelligence-this time with Iran, overturning Roe, deregulating everything Wall Street and extraction industries. It`s obvious that Trump will do anything to distract and deflect from the real problem, his criminal behavior as identified by Robert Mueller!
5
It's always the same problem with the GOP. First they give themselves a huge, permanent tax cut, and some ordinary citizens a small and temporary one, and then their ignorance (on healthcare, foreign policy, climate change, economics, ...) provokes one gigantic crisis after the other, which ends up costing ordinary citizens much more than what they got (if they were lucky) through that tax cut, all while destroying America and America's standing in the world.
We urgently need to MASSIVELY invest in improving the quality of education in this country (both cognitive and EQ), if not one day things may get really bad, so bad that the next Democratic administration can no longer revert them.
5
Trump said he would bail out famers who have been hurt by his trade war. Isn't this the definition of socialism?
7
@Brad
No. Socialism doesn't hurt farmers, it creates the conditions for them to thrive.
3
@Ana Luisa
That was my point in my sarcasm. Trump is touting Socialism as a way to take care of farmers he has hurt.
1
it's about time a United States president has reacted to how China behaves. Stolen intellectual property, demanding inventors sign their patents over to the Chinese and currency manipulation. These issues undermine competition and are detrimental to American business and ingenuity. Trump at least is addressing these issues that have been ignored in the past and in the long run will benefit the United States.
1
Are we supposed to feel badly for all the players in this rigged market taking a hammering recently? And before responding with the shopworn "but the retirement accounts of innocent people will be harmed", please realize that said "retirement accounts" are in reality built on a house of cards to begin with. We need to burn this market to the ground and start anew with values based on sane economic theory. And yes, every time I see a photo of a panicked trader it makes me smile.
3
I have a question: What financial effect do the new tariffs have on US multinational corporations that outsourced millions of American jobs with impunity to make more profits? Also, did these corporations have to pay a duty when they brought these products to America for sale?
Maybe these greedy corporations are getting their just desserts for causing the rampant income inequality in America.
9
trump is our George the III and his tariffs a left-handed echo of the taxes imposed on the colonies, a country is not a business. messing with economic lines, without understanding them. trump is not playing with ribbon clerks. these leaders have been in place for years and their world view is really tuned. what is trump about? removing the US from alliances with Europe. removing the US from alliances that are working to adapt to climate change. removing the US from a pladtic pact. and the craven and complicit republicans in congress go along.
9
To those who believe that tariffs on Chinese goods would result in a tax that American consumers would pay; by your logic we should have negative tariffs on Chinese imports.
Like all things US world relations, on North Korea, Venezuela, and now China, trump has no plan, no strategy, no idea. He ignores the counsel of his many “acting” and generally inept advisors. All he has are vague notions coming from his obsessive daily (and nightly) diet of FOX news viewings. His actions are prompted by spontaneous impulses ... vague impressions, whims and fancies crowding his addled brain (he insists “I have a great brain"). They evaporate as quickly as they gel, leaving in their wake a lingering chaotic trail of half-baked contrived pronouncements. He is easily distracted by spurioua events Essentially he is operating by the seat of his pants. We have a child seated at the levers of governmental power, utter disaster looming on the horizon.
9
This is good, very good for my friends business.
He repairs washers,dryers, and other appliances. .
8
I don’t get how the SEC pounces on Elon Musk for his tweet that affects markets but they don’t do anything about Trump’s tweets. And who knows who Trump tells beforehand so that he can tell them “I just made you a lot of money” just like he did after the billionaire tax break. Trump may have figured out the easiest way to make money can be had with a presidential tweet. Meantime, everyone else pays the price.
15
What stresses me even more, that this dodge drafter coward will drag us to military conflict with Iran, after he withdrew us from Iran nuclear deal, he would sacrifice american soldiers for another fake war just to remain out of jail and get re-elected.
And that's not all...did you happened to hear how he planning to criminalize abortion, so Roe v. Wade is on a ballot again.
Already five states are basically banning abortion...all that coming from the biggest sexual harasser.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/11/opinion/abortion-pregnancy-misoprostol.html
And no, there's much more with him and his son ignoring a subpoena and making the point that he could degrade Senate and Congress as much as he wants without any consequences all the while transforming our country to run-of-the-mill
Banana Republic at his whim.
If that doesn't bring us on the streets in huge protests, I don't know what will.
20
Trump is again saying that he's going to bail out the farmers with $18 B. But, what about the average American? I just heard that the tariff war will cost the average American $800 a year more. There goes any tax cut. And, we all know that when prices go up, they don't come back down. Who knows how many years that it will take to dig out of this hole that Trump is digging. The only way out is with people voting.
13
How Is it possible that a president can upend our economy with a tweet? Is there no way to curtail this rash behavior? Economists know this will batter our markets and cost citizens, including his base, billions of dollars.
With more than 18 months left, he has the ability to debilitate our country even more. How can we stop this?
11
As some comments suggest, I have little doubt that Trump, Mnuchin, Ross, Kudlow and other insiders in this administration are making out like bandits manipulating market sentiment via tweets and financial news network comments. From "negotiations going well" to imposition of tarrifs, to "talks constructive and will continue".... all these comments move algos one way or another. Sadly, we've reached a point in this country were regulatory controls are near nil.
9
A simple prediction for the complex problem of Trumps idiotic tariff war. WE PAY these costs, not China. That's a fact. Part of Trump's core are the American farmers, particularly soybeans. They are beginning to lose faith in their savior. They are very unhappy with him. They will not put up with this much longer. On the other front, the markets hate Trump's tariff war. Business hates Trump's tariff war. Trump needs the famers. He boasts over and over how the rise in the markets and the good economy are HIS achievement alone. Now that he's already campaigning for 2020, everything he does is geared toward boosting his numbers. Pissing off the famers and by extension other's in that universe, and riling and devastating the markets is not good for reelection. Put two and two together, and this war will soon be winding down. He cannot sustain any popularity in those two markets by grinding the Chinese. And for HeyJoe, you are dead on!
4
Suckers. All of us. We see it, don’t believe it, and still on it goes. The President toys with world affairs, wars, markets and laughs about it. Entertains dictators and more for shock value. Distraction and media clicks and points. It’s a monstrous gyrating river of slime all for attention. And we all keep tuning in to view what’s next, like a bad episode of Black Mirror only real. People are getting rich with this guy and his antics, and the country is going to hell. The Times excellent and foreboding article on the extinction of species is somehow prescient in this white collar civics parallel.
6
So, Trump will collect billions in tariffs from the American people to offset the deficits created tax cuts for the rich. Then when the price of stocks and bonds fall due to this trade war, Trump and his rich buddies can buy a fire sale prices before he ends the trade war and stocks rise, enriching them even more. Then he along with McConnell will have to cut social security , medicaid, what is left of social services and education and medicare to make up for the loss of tariff income.
Cynical, I know. But unfortunately not beyond the realm of reason with Trump.
4
US GDP needs to grow at over +3% for the Trump Administration to meet one of its clearly set goals.
A market sell-off resulting in lower stock prices will do severe collateral damage to this goal. The rising market has unleashed the "animal spirits" in stock owners and fueled these same "spirits" in others via derived demand, by acting as an ATM to fund consumption spending. Former Fed chair Alan Greenspan's "wealth effect" helps to explain how rising stock prices lead to "paper profits" which make individuals feel wealthier. Then, these feelings are actualized by consumers via their higher consumption purchases.
Another instance of this equities market derived demand is found in the revenue collections of individual state governments, such as North Carolina. For the tax year 2018, per the AP (May 6, 2019), NC reported tax collections in the 1st quarter of 2019 in excess of expectations by $395 million due largely to unexpected capital gains and dividends collections. Whereas, taxes from wages and salaries were much closer to expectations. Similar tax collection results are probably being replicated by many other states.
My point is simply that equities markets are priced almost for perfection according to some analysts. And, under such circumstances, yesterday's 600 point Dow dip ripples and reverberates throughout the economy; with the potential for many unanticipated consequences, such as its effect on NC's revenue streams.
[5/14 Tues 10:17am Greenville NC]
1
So does this mean the 1 to 10 per-centers will have to give up buying their latest iPhones and Apple computers ... I doubt it since price doesn't get in the way of the labels the wealthy just must have. Presidents Trump and Xi have found a way for their governments to make even more money on Apple and others.
Trump supporters will change their tune when the $1.00 store is the 1.25 store. I told a number of people in Walmart yesterday that they better stock up on essentiels for the trade war. They looked at me curiously.
10
@kat
Wow, if you aren't willing to pay a 0.25 more for the junk you get from dollar store just don't need it very much do you? China will own the world if we don't challenge them now. I will pay an extra quarter for each junk item i buy from dollar tree if that is what it takes. Or I will live without the junk they sell.
3
Trump was known to manipulate stock prices for his own benefit in the past with rumors that he would take over companies. I wonder if he is up to his old tricks but on a massive scale.
18
Okay. So if in fact the president is engaging in insider trading and has alerted some of his cronies to short the market and that in a given amount of time alert them that he is about to rescind the tariffs so they can buy low , well and good. America might be able to weather that financial storm . But what if it at that point the leaders of China decide to save face, and not allowing America to pull their strings, decide not to remove their tariffs?
7
@kat. Orto stop lending us money and call in existing debts.
3
When you are looking for a win, the easiest thing to do is to first create a negative drama that you can later reverse.
I don't for a moment think that Trump cares one iota about working stiffs, American manufacturing, trade deficits, or whether Americans or Chinese suffer from his actions.
Trump only cares about himself!
So why would not shoot a hole through trade policies that will most likely have longterm impact for millions?
Mark my words, when he needs a positive news moment, he will suddenly strike a deal with China and take all the credit.
The saddest part of all this, aside from the pain he is causing to US consumers and manufacturers, is that Trump will do this several more times before the 2020 elections and his base will most likely not waiver.
17
I fear that when he needs a positive news moment he’ll start a nuclear war.
5
"But the declines in the financial markets raise the prospect of a negative feedback loop: As worries about the economy send stock prices lower, the weakness could prompt concern among the executives whose decisions drive economic growth."
The NY Times should be more accurate about its terminology.
Although the consequences of this loop are "bad" (or considered to be negative results), this is the description of a positive feedback loop. That is, the output of the loop tends to push the input further in the direction that caused the original change. Positive feedback loops are inherently unstable.
Another example of a positive feedback loop with negative consequences is the loop containing greenhouse gasses and global temperature change. People in charge of policy don't seem to understand the inevitable consequences of strong positive feedback loops, and we are well on the way to a disaster.
4
@Pat Roberts: Failure to build negative feedback into public policy will drive the US into chaos.
I hope Trump keeps it up and stalls out the economy. Not only is he directly hitting consumers with his tariff tax, the decline of the economy will lessen his chances to be re-elected.
5
@Larry P: The debt ceiling looms, and Trump's policies are likely to reduce Chinese investment in US government debt.
2
Trump on way to bankrupt US like he did Casinos. Except there is no government backed by taxpayers to bail him out this time, he IS the government. The middle and lower class are taxed to the max and can't even handle a $400 emergency fiscal crisis, the country is at Greece level debt, the bloated ineffective bureaucracy gets their annual raises and "leaders" indifferent to the consequences. Perhaps a Republican leader will rise from the ashes to resuscitate the Republican Party and/or perhaps Senator Sanders will be successful and lead a revolution for America hat respects the citizenry and limited resources with which we need to survive.
7
"An Unending Trade War Leaves Wall Street Jittery"
"The stock losses have brought an end to a recent calm that had settled over Wall Street."
"Now that the Trump administration has raised tariffs on some $200 billion of Chinese goods to 25 percent, its next major escalation could cover nearly every product imported from China. The White House is weighing levies on another $300 billion of imports that includes a range of consumer products, from cellphones to computers and toys, that have so far been largely unscathed by the fight."
Yesterday, 5/13/2019, the DOW closed down $617.38. The S&P was down $69.53 and the NASDAQ was down $269.92. A simple loaf of bread at our grocery store was $4.00.
Trump's tariff's are going to cost all of us in the Middle Class and Poor a bundle and he and the republicans in congress could care less.
11
Subsidizing farmers to cover some of their losses due to Trump's Trade War is all well and good, but who is going to Subsidize the American Consumer from the "hit" they are taking because of increased prices? It seems to me the "red" states get the benefit for having voted for Trump while the "blue" states are punished for not having done so. What about the "swing" states? Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin: You voted for Trump. How is that working for you?
5
Question the common rhetoric about trade and China. The news media just repeats the complaints of Trump and the grumbling of business as they pass the buck.
The Chinese have been made into the boogie men to explain away the loss of manufacturing jobs in the rust belt. Those jobs were dinosaurs and went the way of advancing technology.
Companies grumble because they want to take advantage of China. They want to stop China from having any homegrown products so they can make scads in Asia. Whatever happened to free market trade? Capitalists only like pure capitalism when it means they can take advantage of the competition.
3
Is Trump is deliberately manipulating the markets to allow short sales, etc. to cronies with insider information to gain short term windfalls? Republican Senators included (something has to explain their cowardly silence). I think so. A few tweets, market volatility, windfalls....I am no economist but I smell grifters and insiders a mile away, and the odor is strong right now.
17
@John: The "dual mandate" to the Federal Reserve Bank to use monetary policy to modulate both employment levels and inflation guarantees erratic economic policy that can be played by insiders.
5
He’s manipulating the markets and he and his cronies are making more and more and more
13
He lost millions that he borrowed & now he's working on bankrupting the entire country.
Vote! He and his supporters are outnumbered.
13
Out numbered doesn’t matter thanks to the genius of the Electoral College
4
@Hmmm
We should fix that!
1 Person - 1 Vote
The government represents people, not acres.
3
This president, completely ignorant of basic economics, will manage to crash the economy. And his equally ignorant base will probably believe he is "standing up to China" and will not associate the higher prices they must pay to their cult leader's uninformed, misguided actions.
9
Consumer spending is two thirds of GDP. Who could possibly have predicted that levying a massive tax (aka tariff) on the middle class would have any impact? Again, who pays the tax? Could anybody possibly not know who? Ok, I'll excuse and make an exception for the millions of gullible trump supporters.
Congress is the only place where insider trading is actually legal. Shorting the market is great way to make a pile-o-dough especially if one knows with absolute that trump is absolutely going to blow another deal with China.
We are going to have see not only trump's taxes, but also the taxes of everyone in congress. By the way, how is it possible that one single nitwit can levy taxes (aka tariffs) without a debate and a vote in congress on a tax raising bill?
12
The Art of the Deal. Hardly.
6
The Republican supporters are going to reap what they sow and will deserve the pain and suffering that goes along with Trumps daily chaos .
7
The only problem is that all of us who did not vote for him will suffer too.
2
We have far more to fear from our anti-intellectual executive than China's intellectual property theft.
11
It's rather surprising to see see many "progressive" socialists fretting over the capitalists' tyrannical and oppressive stock markets. Wouldn't they prefer to witness another catastrophic collapse? Or are they secretly participating in these investment vehicles via their companies' 401(k)s and their own IRAs?
4
I agree. Those socialists who hate capitalism want to see our system collapse. Otherwise, why would they suddenly want to undercut American labor. Aren't they campaigning for a $15 minimum wage? Don't they insist that greedy corporate interests were anti-union. But now they whine they don't want to pay an extra $50 for that fifth TV.
1
@Bob - Cute spin.
Progressives are pointing out that most Americans can't afford to pay more for things.
Personally I haven't been inside a Walmart in almost twenty years and I buy American made products whenever possible but I can afford it. I'm well informed enough to know that this isn't the case for most people.
6
@Ed Is that the nonsense they're feeding you on Fox News, that progressive want to see the economy collapse? Can you provide one quote from a single progressive that supports that ridiculous statement? Maybe we just don't like seeing our fellow Americans suffer while those on the inside line their pockets further via insider trading and market shorting. #releasethetaxreturns
4
The Comments about the economy inherited by the Trump administration are all well and good, but I am far more concerned about this administration upending the foreign policy and international relations it inherited. This week has seen Mike Pompeo acting as the bull in a china shop: cancelling and re-routing meetings around the globe. I have long stopped fretting about the price of avocados and other produce, which began escalating after Trump yelled at Mexico's leadership weeks ago, and have started fretting about John Bolton and the potential fruition of his twisted worldview which could plunge our nation into war with Iran almost as fast as George W. Bush did with Iraq as retribution for Iraq's injury toward G. H. W. Bush ("Daddy").
11
@Jenny Never have I been more grateful that my son recently left the military. I was proud to have him serve, but not for the recklessness of this administration.
10
This is just another manufactured crisis, along with saber--rattling against Iran, to distract from Congressional investigations of Trump.
9
Trump, the great businessman, is going to pull another stunt like this and completely collapse the stock market.
Watch.
11
@Joe
I'm sure the Left is hoping for an economic crash..ANYTHING as long as it hurts our President's chances of reelection.
Sad.
1
@DB
YOUR President.
If Trump can pick only one side to benefit, I can declare he's as much a President as I am a racehorse.
2
I’ve seen some comments to the effect of we will beat China because they are suffering more than us. If China’s economy tanks, the entire world will be impacted.
4
There are a lot of people making a ton of money off this stuff. I just wonder if Trump cronies get a heads up beforehand...
23
@Barry Williams
I wish someone would teach me how!
3
The NYT headine could have read : "Stock Market up 6000 points since Trump election but experiences bumps along the way as expected. All signs indicate great hopes for the economic future of the Nation."
6
I have a bumper sticker I saved from the George W. Bush years.
It simply reads: Worst. President. Ever.
Time to re-issue that and plaster it on every car in America…
15
I think the Russians have convinced Trump that we must work together to thwart China. I think Trump believes everything Putin tells him. From Putin's perspective, what's not to love about a US / Chinese trade war?
9
Reality Check now that low class got raise 100 percent in wages they can afford to pay higher prices. Just smoke in wind always an agenda being used to make money. Higher prices will mean higher taxs on everything including food an energy
1
@jerry lee - Huh? Where on earth are you getting your information from?
6
Nothing to see here.
The consumer price increases will be permanent and the extra retail revenue will get skimmed off for the hedge fund investing class once the pre-election tariff pressure is relieved.
Seriously, these folks are not going to just give back all that “free” revenue as a gift to the consumer class, but rather will be “entitled” to keep it as a hedge against “increased operating costs” or... ahem...dividends.
This scenario is 100% baked into the cake, and under the guise of helping the long suffering middle class, Trump has pulled off yet another epic sized wealth transfer from the masses .... to the 1%.
Absolutely, positively. And PS, my US based health insurance premiums haven’t gone down a cent since Trump took office, yet another wealth transfer scheme.
13
This could be Trump's undoing. The economy has been his strong point. If he gets into a "who-blinks-first" competition with China and loses, the economy will tank. He will be held responsible. And we will probably be calling that old grandpa from Vermont -- yea that one -- President Bernie.
4
@John Jabo
Yeah but first we'll have to endure months of Trump-Blame...
"It's not my fault!!!" he will bray loudly ar rallies....
It's: The Dems
Fake News Channels
Hillary's E-mails
Obama
Chuckie and Nancy
"Little_______"(insert name of any person Trump derisively labels).
Mexicans, Blacks, Muslims, Indians, Canadians, Iranians, British....
In other words...ANYONE but him.
3
"But the declines in the financial markets raise the prospect of a negative feedback loop: As worries about the economy send stock prices lower, the weakness could prompt concern among the executives whose decisions drive economic growth."
That would be a positive feedback loop. Not a negative feedback loop. In a negative feedback loop, the feedback counters the original effect. in a positive feedback loop, the feedback compounds the original effect.
2
Yes, they meant "vicious cycle".
4
Nothing makes my day more than our beloved Wall Street Patriots have some anxiety. Cry me a river.
4
What is Trump trying to accomplish? Bring manufacturing jobs back to the U. S.? The Federal government never forced any corporations to offshore manufacturing, and they did so knowing their intellectual property was at risk. Consumers never asked for Chinese made goods. The corporate sector just wanted higher profits. Meantime, many jobs were lost in the U. S. Again, what is the president's goal? I don't know the answer.
5
This Trade War is not about trade, but geopolitical power. The Chinese have been gaming the system for a long time. I have lived in China, negotiated with them and understand their perspective. They perceive the liberal democracies in the US and Western Europe as weak. The Chinese perspective is that these gov't are willing to negotiate away their geopolitical influence, so their citizens can buy cheap goods. This is why the Chinese are willing to keep up the pressure versus coming to a negotiated settlement. On the other hand the Chinese financial system is very unstable and could easily fall into a severe recession. The Chinese leadership know this. The US holds a much stronger hand and if the negotiators allow the Chinese side to save face (i.e., this is important) the situation will be resolved. The Chinese need to change their laws to enforce a trade agreement or otherwise the agreement is hollow.
6
your theory has been advanced for decades; now suddenly it no longer holds. I actually read a headline a short time ago that said yes we should have confronted China but it's too late now.
Constitutional crisis? Oh, right. Forgot about that. Mueller report? Oh, yea. Didn't Congress have some questions about that whole Russia thing? Something about the election, as I recall. William Barr? Let me guess. Contestant on Jeopardy?
7
I'm tired of dt making knee jerk decisions that damage Americans and the world. I'll be so happy for the day we can vote in a new president who has a conscience and a brain. I wish we could just impeach him, but that would leave us in the hands of Pence, who is no better. Who knows what awful things he might do.
6
This is a temporary course correction. The market is over valued anyway. And besides, why should the liberals care? They hate capitalism anyway. Thank you.
4
Is Trump trying to throw the election to Biden?
2
"The trade war between the United States and China could last indefinitely"
I'm sure the NYT hopes it does.... at least until the election if only to help beat our President.
Neither of which is going to happen.
2
Playing Trump's intentional financial market disruptions must be what keeps his whole mob of crooks together.
4
At least Herbert Hoover had an impressive record as a humanitarian to offset the financial debacle over which he presided. Donald Trump merely has an impressive record of incomprehensible incompetence.
5
The US is becoming an unreliable partner. Every time other nations are negotiating with us, they now have to take into account that we can vote another lunatic into the White House. Every time someone on the planet starts an economic activity, they have to consider a new risk: The US may make unexpected erratic moves that negatively affects the world economy.
This, too, will be a like tax on everyone.
1
Trump is a drama queen. He craves attention, and being on TV was good for him. Then he realized there was an even bigger stage -- the presidency. And his TV fans let him have it. His acts are dazzling, even while he depletes their pocketbooks.
9
Markets up today after Trump's comments.
I hope the SEC is following the trading activity of the Trumps and their associated.
It would be very easy to make a fortune if one knew how a single Trump comment can manipulate the market.
3
O please. Europe and China's markets have been closed to us for decades. Its about time someone got tough. If you can't afford the one penny this will add to the cost of your corn flakes you need a new job. The rise in costs by all kinds of businesses is completely false. They are using it to make more money.
3
Ah, yes. The ol' "inflation isn't real it's just a conspiracy" trick.
Thanks for alerting us to these higher prices are just imaginary.
Are you giving the rebates? Or do I just pay the cashiers what I want?
1
Any advice on how to do my own long run financial planning in the face of all this political nonsense?
4
Taking on China is something that previous administrations failed to do. A president for life is far more powerful than a government in gridlock. Trump would be wise to keep negotiations under wraps. His boasting only hurts a deal. The Chinese want to trade but do not want to lose face in the agreemen. t
2
This frenetic market has been a short seller's delight. Trump's erratic action wiped out billions in 401Ks but not mine. I correctly guessed he'd continue doing what he did in the past which is make knee jerk decisions based on gas pains (aka: gut feel).
If people plan to trade markets whilst Trump is in office, learn about PUTS which profit when markets go into free fall. My guess is that's what Trump is doing.
3
Putting aside for a moment the politics behind trade wars, I wouldn't shed too many tears for Wall Street, because they brought this on themselves. I worked for a high tech company that moved manufacturing to China and software to India, we knew this to be false economy. Total life cycle costs indicated it still remained cost effective to do it in N America, because of the necessity of frequent and close understanding between the definers, developers and manufacturers, and the use of automation in manufacturing. Example in point, the Raspberry Pi, a $25 computer is made in the UK where it was conceived and designed, not China.
We moved manufacturing to China at the behest of Wall Street, because they punished stocks that did not do so. They , more than Trump, are responsible for the loss of manufacturing jobs. As ye sow so shall ye reap.
2
Why should farmers get even more money from other taxpayers to support them from fall-out of the trade war. After all, they overwhelmingly supported the election of our current president, despite knowing in advance that he would start this trade war and they would be affected. Are we repealing the law of cause and effect?
5
When you vote to put Donald Trump--as many traders and NYSE employees did--in charge and you knew his business history and probably his lack of moral and ethical values as well, this is what we all get. Americans should have no illusions. As long as Trump, and his team of the finest, are in charge of America, America and Americans are in for a bumpy ride. Mostly in the doward direction economically, internationally, domestically, and politically. Enjoy the trip Trump supporters--it's one you've created for all of us.
12
The last two Presidents tried and failed to level the playing field with China on trade and intellectual property. It is telling that the Times "picks" for this column are all Trump bashing. I wonder what all these experts think the correct answer is to the issues of stolen intellectual property and China's other unfair trade practices. I don't know if Trump's strategy will work but China is eating our lunch and doing nothing because there are risks is not a strategy.
2
"There are reasons for investors to expect the United States economy to withstand the shock of an escalating trade war. "
This is the whole problem with saying that the US economy is doing great. It's great for "investors" - i.e. stockholders, and for large corporations. Roughly ten percent of Americans own roughly 84% of stocks. Though that 10% may be doing well, despite the increased taxes on them in blue states, the economy is generally pretty bad for the 80%. The purported tax cut was really only "crumbs," wiped out by increasing health care costs, and now by rising costs of consumer goods. Most Americans will have to tighten their belts one way or the other and small businesses will be driven into bankruptcy, all while the 1% sails happily on. Please stop saying how great the economy is doing, it really only works for a small minority of Americans.
5
One wonders who in DC knew of this planned tariff war in advance and has made a bundle in secret offshore accounts by selling short. I dare say that a few Chinese billionaires in the know have done well also.
9
Trump will probably cave in the next couple of months, as he should know that China will attack his rural base. He will start by promising rural welfare payments, but then do some face-saving back-off so the farmers don't revolt in 2020. Xi is president for life and doesn't have those pressures. The only pressure Trump feels is what affects his base, and he is therefore easily 'played' by his opponents who know that.
5
What happens in America and what will Trump do IF China digs in and continues to refuse to do all that Trump "demands" they do?
If China does not come out of this deal looking well and saving face, they will not do what he demands. China is a very big boy now, and has a reputation and a culture that refuses to accept lowering that position.
Diplomacy is not the Trump administration's strong suit, and that will probably create more problems when they have yet to show any intentions of meeting China on any terms but their own.
1
George W. Bush's 2001 decision signed the proclamation granting China permanent normal trading relations with the United States, and the Congress in office at that time and without any consideration of worker wage fairness and safety, environmental and intellectual property protections, or the overall humane and balanced treatment of Chinese and American workers was not considered. It also seems that any consideration of the fact that China was and remained an entirely communist nation, now a capitalist, authoritarian oligarchy and tyranny with communism as a control institution, was not and is not considered as a barrier to granting China PNTR with the U.S.A.
It was anything but a level playing field. It was not long after PNTR that millions of manufacturing jobs moved from the U.S. to China, benefitting the Communists and giant American companies, most of which are now giant multi-national corporations calling themselves American companies.
We now depend on China for many of our vital computer chips, electronic subsystems, rare primary minerals and other components crucial to our defense and telecom industries. We are in this position because of greed and a lack of commitment to our long term national security and defense. Yes, our stance with China needs to be holistic.
The government needs to find ways to compensate the farmers, and other businesses impact by the decision and to finally deal with the vast trade imbalances and negotiate a better deal for all.
6
No, it's not going to last. The president master, putin, will tell him when to fold so he can improve his reelection chances. Ah, the country? Show me when that has been trump's priority.
3
The American consumer benefits from cheap Chinese goods. If the same goods are made here Walmart and Dollar General will be unaffordable for Trump's base. China created a foreign zone in Shenzhen in southern China where western oligarchs could move their factory jobs to to increase their profits on Wall Street. The trade off is cheap good for the American consumer. Growing up in Brooklyn I remember walking past factories that were humming with activities, and looking up and seeing machines with spools of garments spinning. Now some of these factories have been turned into gentrified apartments and condos. If I know all this I'm sure Trump knows it too being he grew up here.
1
@Wayne. I guess you are assuming that Trump’s base are poor people? I think that is not really true.
@Thomas Smith let's just say his base shops at Walmart. "Poor" is a relative term. Maybe you can substitute "poor" for uninformed. Those factory jobs went to China for a reason. They are not coming back. Even if they did who will pay them $20 an hour with benefits?
The simplest and fairest solution would be for all economically advanced nations to abolish all tariffs between themselves. Developing countries could use tariffs to allow local industries to develop. By the way, China is not a “developing nation” so it’s restrictive tariffs and, probably more important, it’s trade practices are not, and should not, be acceptable to the US. Other than imposing tariffs on their goods how, exactly, are we to end their intellectual property theft and restrictive trade practices? Right now, I think Mr. Trump is on the right, though painful, track.
4
@Thomas Smith As normal with the TPP, so that China is the baby in the equation. What have tarriffs got to do with IP?
1
@Moira. Part of the negotiation is getting China to strengthen its enforcement of IP rights. This is the most difficult issue, not the tariffs themselves, and it is this issue which has derailed the negotiations as it would require China to change its domestic laws to protect IP. The Chinese believe this to be a violation of their sovereignty, which it is, but current laws in China do not provide strong protections for IP. What else can we do to protect what is our most valuable asset? I am open to suggestions.
There's no question that the President can cause the stock market to go up or down in a single day with a single tweet. Does our current president possess enough honesty to prevent himself from reaping huge profits in the resulting market fluctuations simply by program trading, a relatively new phenomenon? Or can it be expanded to anyone named Trump? Or Trump in-laws? Or Trump buddies? I read that our president can wait until June something or other to enact (unfortunate word) such tariff increases or rollbacks. Surely, he wouldn't do such things. Would he?
4
I'm glad I received my MBA from Amberton University; I would been embarrassed for saying I have a degree from Wharton. If Trump is a product of their Economic program; they need to revamp their program.
The only people who will benefit from this tariff war, are very wealthy investors who will swoop in as panic investors sell off their holdings. maybe that is the idea. Three major market corrects in just over a year is SEC investigation territory.
Oh, that's right, Trump\'s appointments to the SEC, will cover up any wrong doing by the 1% or himself.
6
This article is fear mongering. Markets are 5% off highs. GDP and employment at records. You can't take a week of losses and project from there.
4
@JoeGiul
How is reporting the facts to be considered "fear mongering"??
Seems that some only consider it 'accurate' news if it is praising trump....the man who single-handedly lost a BILLION dollars all by himself.
6
How could anyone believe that a man who has made a career of going bankrupt knows anything about economics?
Anything touched by Trump is poisoned.
7
The guy in the photo is only 25 years old, and this is how he looked at the end of the day.
9
@Glen Ridge Girl - This made me laugh out loud. Thank you.
For anyone who thinks someone like DJT won’t have long lasting disastrous effects on things, we’re just at the beginning. Sure the man’s a buffoon who will make half of America laugh and say “let’s try this” but he’s also, deep down a horrible, self centered, mentally challenged person. Really!
4
Market Drops?
Trump, as usual, is conspicuously silent as people loose millions of dollars due to his foolish trade war. Seems he only can take 'credit' when it goes up.
5
Trump's tweets move the market. He is doing real crazy stuff. In view of his known deceitful behavior in the past, it is not unreasonable to suspect that he and/or his cronies are raking in money by taking positions in the market. For example, a short position on S&P Index before tweeting about new tariffs on Chinese imports would make a huge illegal profit for Trump, his family members, and his cronies.
SEC, are you watching these looters?
6
I can't care less about stock market...after 40 yrs of my career in non-profit, I can barely remain afloat, never mind my subsidized studio.
It mostly affects people who have much more $$$$ to play the game. Real economy and stock market are far apart.
Meanwhile the Liar-in Chief exploiting this whole charade with huge dose of additional lies to his own base, claiming that trade wars don't have a detrimental effect on his loyal rural supporters and secretly trying to bribe them with more subsidies.
He never stops with lies and disinformation, it's in his warped DNA.
Also, I'm really confuse on a numbers of presidential candidates on Democratic side, seems like they should concentrate on running for contestant Senate seats, that's where the big problem lies.
It was brilliantly spelled out in this piece...
The Senate Is as Much of a Problem as Trump
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/10/opinion/sunday/senate-democrats-trump.html
6
@faivel1 Do you have a retirement account through your job? If so, then you are very much affected by the stock market.
2
This is actually the best help (very helpful at least) that we could get from the fake president. These tariffs will put a big hurt on a large number of his base voters. I'm sorry for my fellow Americans and neighbors but the planet can not handle another 6 years of this nonsense.
1
@Hi Neighbor
Thanks to DiFi smearing Kavanaugh and Pelosi and Schumer having the time of their life Trump is in for another 4. Considering how I personally will now never vote for a democrat for a national office it is likely Pence or Haley gets it for the following 8. So 14 years of this is what the planet is in store for. What you going to do about it?
When POTUS continues to make false claims about his policy, such as China pays tariffs to the us treasury, he should be removed from office. This is gross incompetence. The underlying reasons don’t matter. He is making policy, dangerously, on the basis of incompetence.
2
Trump is killin’ it! I mean the US economy, of course. Thanks again for MAGA.
2
The mid west and southern states that elected this man should be very afraid. He has not increase coal jobs and to the farmers that now receive welfare from the government. It is ironic that the people who keep stating too many get free handouts are now getting bailed out by the taxpayers. I don't want to pay for their stupidity.
4
If there was ever a time to band together, economically, this is it.
China wants to eat our lunch and the LAST thing we need is a traitorous Business Sector to continue to hand over process and intellectual property. Well, I suppose those days are never ending, but if there was EVER a time for our businesses to leave China, come back to America and retrench, now is that time.
I am not holding my breath.
3
For two years, Trump's love of chaos was tempered by the adults in the room. They are all gone. He is surrounded by men whose wild, unfounded notions of how the world works support Trump's most dangerous instincts. Taunting Iran, encouraging chaos in Venezuela, ignoring a Russian threat along with failing to understand how to deal with China will end our run of luck. One of more of these created threats will blow up in his face. At that point how will his tough guy act work? Who of his advisers will be able to rescue the world?
3
Trump still thinks China is paying the tariffs. American businesses are paying, and they’re passing it on to consumers. It’s a tax.
We’re living in an Orwellian bad dream. It won’t end until Trump is out of the White House.
7
@DS
I think he does know it. He's using smoke and mirrors to keep his base fired up.
the chinese people are tough as nails since, with the exception of the last 20 years have known only suffering.. unfortunately, americans have become flabby and soft, and it is clear to me at least which side will endure a trade war longer...
1
Trump is going to cause a stock market decline of 5-10% and possibly a recession with the trade war antics. Somebody please stop him before he does.
3
Let the stock market tank. Bring on the next Depression. Maybe then we will see a retreat from Trumpism by at least his rich corporate cronies.
If that doesn’t work, how about a war with Iran? Or perhaps accelerating climate change so we can kill the planet? Perhaps doing away with democracy in favor of a dictatorship? Or arming all teachers with guns in our schools? How about ratcheting up our incivility to one another and denigrating anyone who isn’t a white Anglo? Maybe we should abandon ALL our allies in favor of embracing Putin and Kim?
It seems that all the possible scenarios just mentioned are the goals of this corrupt and hypocritical Republican Party. But the only scenario that would jolt most Trump lovers to abandon their cult is to hit them squarely in the wallet. Maybe if China cashes in on the U.S. Treasury notes it owns, those who love our “stable genius” businessman-turned-reality-star president will finally wake up to the destruction to America that he, and they, are perpetrating upon us all.
6
The 'King of the Losers' works his magic once again.
There's nothing like a declining economy to insure defeat in 2020.
There is something wrong with our system. We have allowed ONE IGNORANT MAN the power to apply tariffs as a whim - using the tool as bludgeon when trade issues could have been negotiated by responsible adults.
If Congress had any sense at all, it would redefine how and who applies these taxes. After all, the Constitution gives legislators the right and the responsibility to raise revenues. How did it land in the lap of a hopeless dunce?
And then there is the fact that we now have a war over what many would agree was not even a big problem. Sure, we need to defend intellectual property rights. But there are a lot more intelligent ways to do it than punishing our own farmers.
Add to the ignorance factor of our Liar in Chief this little pertinent fact: If Americans suffer, they vote. If the Chinese suffer, they have little recourse. If they protest, they are imprisoned or worse. XI holds the cards.
So, Donald, guess who has the power to wait this out?
3
It’ll get worse too.
I just hope everyone in WI, MI and PA that voted for DJT learn from this. Your vote matters.
DJT was a conman and lousy business person before 2016 and now it is on display for the whole world to see.
We are seeing teachable moments on a daily basis with this administration.
Markets will suffer and we are less safe than at any point in our democracy.
November 2020!
4
It's just so predictable. You need only ask what actions benefit the Russians. You see Trump asserting he is challenging China while the outcomes from his trade policies actually hurt America's ability to reign China in. If we are to change Chinese economic policies we need our allies around the world to be acting with us, not imposing tariffs on European allies for example would help that cause. But Trump attacks our allies in Europe and Canada while he attacks China thus weakening our bargaining position while hurting American businesses at the same time. So European allies lose, Canada loses, China loses and the U.S. loses. Given that outcome, Russia wins by doing nothing other than the cost of attacking our democracy and those of the West. And all you need do is make small investments in a con man and let the fascist Republicans do the rest. So now we have Wall Street wondering is this the beginning of the end of the bull market? When that happens they do one thing - sell. In a flight to safety, we will see interest rates fall, equities drop and when commodity prices have dropped enough, who knows, the average farmer will actually realize they voted for the worst of us, and we are definitely not really "winning". Then maybe, after the pain, can come the cure and the end of Republican corruption that has been great for a few and a disaster for everyone else. Acting stupid does produce outcomes, but those outcomes acting stupid produces are not good for America.
3
Bannon & Trump threat China with a trade war and the Chinese see it as a real possibility with very bad results. This is clearly shown in the Frontline documentary “Trump’s Trade War.” Da Wei is Assistant President at the University of International Relations in Beijing.
STEVE BANNON: “I think the goal in China is quite simply to break the back of this totalitarian mercantilist economic society!”
DA WEI: “This is my optimistic scenario: That we will have a managed tension.
But we do have the pessimistic scenario: We do have a chance to see a new cold war. I don’t think like the one the U.S. had with the USSR. But we will have another type of cold war that nobody have ever experienced.
That’s dangerous. That’s really dangerous! And if that happens—if that happens, it will last for quite a long time!”
1
Dear SEC.
This will only take a few minutes. Do the research and you’ll find insider trading is rampant among Trump family and his small circle.
4
So... is anything being done about this to prevent the avalanche?
Doesn’t this happen every time there is an escalation in this trade war? There are always “the sky is falling” articles about the stock market and the economy for a day or two and then its back to business as usual.
1
I sold all my stock on Friday so retained some of the gains of the year. Feels good to be winning. Only a fool works have held on thinking that they would come to a deal.
The most aggravating part of this story? There was no need at all for a trade war with China. There is no need at all for the tariffs that Trump, in his blissful ignorance, has pulled out of thin air, with no idea how tariffs work. If the result is economic disaster, it’s our own fault for installing this fraud into the White House. I can only hope that justice will be done sooner rather than later, and that Trump’s name will not appear on the 2020 ballot.
4
Well what did we expect, we elected a guy with 6 bankruptcies and are surprised when the country starts heading in the same direction???
4
No fan of frump but less of a fan of a Chinese system that subsidizes industries to sell below cost, gain market share and puts millions of Americans out of work as a matter of national policy. Ask the folks who made furniture in the Carolinas or steel in PA. The Chinese Govt has taken us for a long and painful ride. That pain has not been evenly spread but when it infects the college educated investor class and starts to spread, watch out. Unacceptable.
1
@Stew You also need to put blame on other factors also.
We, the consumer, desired that lowest cost goods, so, the suppliers of those lower cost goods looked to China, and elsewhere, for the lower cost manufacturing. The investors wanted higher returns, the companies wanted more profits and the circle is complete.
5
I can't help feeling "no good deed goes unpunished". While consumer spending drives the economy it also drives dept if all that buying is financed. Concerns about growing debt have led to warnings about uncontrolled spending and advise to save and be frugal.
I've headed those warnings and have saved, made do, made repairs, and not purchased a lot of new stuff. There were several relatively expensive items that I knew would finally give up and I would soon have to make a purchase but kept putting it off because I didn't need to that day.
And now I am going to be taxed for it because so many of the things that need replacing are made in China where manufacturing has shifted with few, if any, alternatives.
And where there are alternatives those sources will most certainly raise their prices in response to the tariffs since people won't have a choice. Nor will prices retreat after they've been elevated even if the tariffs end.
Truly, no good deed goes unpunished.
3
The wholly avoidable trade war between the US and China, the two largest economies, is bound to destabilise the world economy with disrupted supply chains and turbulence in the markets.
4
The stock market decline is directly attributable to Trump's tweets and tariffs. I wonder how many billions have been lost, both in the United States and abroad, because of this decline. No respectable economist or China Watcher would have called for Trump to act as he has done. There is no way China can give in to Trump's bullying and China can retaliate by no longer purchasing U.S. treasuries. Our European and Asian allies realize that Trump is to blame for escalating tensions with China.
3
Anyone looking into whether the so-called president, his family or any of his cronies have arranged for short-sell of stocks? Some of his antics in pursuit of his trade tariff war with China and other nations is causing nasty fluctuations in the stock market lately.
4
While I don't understand the global economic effects as well as many of the NYT community, it sure seems like China pulled back on all of the various IP law's they had agreed to simply because they thought that Trump was so focused on a political victory that he would agree to anything.
I'm not a fan of the Trump administration, but China's politicians saw a critical weakness and attempted to exploit it. If the US had signed a trade agreement with China that didn't include those elements it would of have lasting negative consequences.
Regardless of their motivations, the White House made the right call on this one.
1
Just think of it!
When the tariffs go down, prices in Walmart and Target will go down by a matching amount.
Of course their stock prices will suffer st that time, since their quarterly revenues will drop some 20% or more, and the Investor Class will really get their comeuppance!
A win-win !!
1
@Lars - "prices in Walmart and Target will go down"
Thank you for the laugh Lars. That was great!
4
Trump continues to show how little his knowledge is of international trade and the only ones that are going to suffer because of it is us.
6
Wonder what the outcome of WW2 would have been if Americans decided rationing coffee was too high a price to pay for victory? It is called a war for a reason. It requires pain and sacrifice to win. Don't want to pay the price. Accept subjugation then.
2
Both scenarios might be called “war”, but the dynamics are completely different. Rationing coffee and steel to support the WWII effort is in no way comparable to the hardships Trump is imposing, which fall disproportionately on middle class consumers. Tariff wars never end up well for either party, but in their course many businesses end up going under. The problem here is that you and the president see this situation as a “war”, not understanding the complexity of global trade and the interdependencies of our economies. Sure, the Chinese have plenty to answer for, but describing this as a zero sum game in which all you have to do is get tough is a gross oversimplification. If Trump really wanted to compete with China, he might consider actually supporting American companies involved in renewable energy technology, where the Chinese are eating our lunch, but he doesn’t have the vision or intelligence to do that.
3
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;"
That's it. The first power granted to the Congress by the Constitution. Number One in the list. And it's a big one.
How is that Congress allows one man to wage unilateral economic war by imposing taxes? Why has Congress abdicated its responsibilities?
Now we see why it is so dangerous for Congress to give its power to the executive. Doing so renders it irrelevant to the governance of the nation and makes it easier for a president with dictatorial and authoritarian designs to take over leaving Congress without a say and only able to applaud greatly as they do in North Korea, China, and Russia.
10
A trade war with China won’t go on “indefinitely”.
It will end after a couple of years, when the U.S. shifts most of its Chinese supply base to other low-wage countries, and perhaps to a very small degree, back to the U.S.
In the longer term, there won’t be a big change in the U.S. trade deficit. But the U.S. will benefit by not funding the rise of a global adversary.
4
The lower price of copper indicates slowing growth in China, which is far more dependent on exports than we are. The Chinese leadership has far fewer cards to play if this continues to escalate.
4
When ignorant people elect a man who went bankrupt 6 times, what does the country expect?
31
@Ken
When one half of the country insists on calling the other half ignorant the party they belong to ( democrats ) is going to keep on losing elections. You can bank on it comrade.
Can we just get rid of the executive branch?
7
Barrons doesn't seem too upset. Somehow I don't think the sky is falling.
3
Not yet. DJT will test it. We’ll probably not have another president in our lifetime so problematic.
4
I don’t think Trump is just doing this all on his own. I’d bet it is his advisor, Peter Navarro, who has authored two books on the subject of China and Trade, who is driving the strategy.
From Wikipedia:
Peter Navarro
Director of the Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy
“Navarro's views are significantly outside the mainstream of economic thought ... A strong proponent of reducing U.S. trade deficits, ... His views on trade are widely considered fringe and misguided by other economists.”
“He has called for increasing the size of the American manufacturing sector, setting high tariffs, and repatriating global supply chains. He is also a strong opponent of the North American Free Trade Agreement and Trans-Pacific Partnership...”
....
“On December 21, 2016, Navarro was selected by President-elect Trump to head a newly created position, as director of the White House National Trade Council. He outlines President Trump's trade policy as aiming to create jobs, revive the manufacturing sector, and improve the country's trade balance. He warned that trade deficits could jeopardize U.S. national security by allowing unfriendly nations to encroach on American supply chains. One of his main missions is to focus on behaviors by other countries that he considers abusive, cheating, illegal, and unfair against the U.S.”
NY Times - please consider arranging a story on this guy, even better, an interview.
9
The first word of this important economic article is “Investors”—
Why must we be beholden to “investors”?
7
@srwdm, I own stocks. Most working and retired people own stock thought their 401k programs. That's why.
1
Well ...I guess if you stash your dough in your mattress, you don’t. Good for you!
So- are we having fun yet in this easy to win “war”? Billions of dollars disappear because of impetuosity , vileness, hubris and ignorance. How did we let a defective personality decide these things? His toadies abound, and everyone is suffering without reason or purpose.
10
Oh, really? Me thinks this is a two-state/bi-lateral price hike, period. Dollar General just became Five Dollar General. A shakedown, by any other name, is still a shakedown. The whip has come down!
3
Does Trump mean easy to win as in three weeks or easy to win like three years?
He does know what he’s talking about, right?!
3
China can rest easy. I just paid for those tariffs out of my IRA.
6
In a CNN article: "The President of the United States owes farmers like myself some type of plan of action," John Wesley Boyd Jr., a soybean farmer in Baskerville, Virginia, told CNN's Brianna Keilar on Monday.
"Farmers were his base. They helped elect this president ... and now he's turning his back on America's farmers when we need him the most," he added."
Signs of Trump's much lauded "base" deserting him? I do so hope so as he is proving to be the most disastrous POTUS of modern times if not ever.
11
But Trump is going to pay-off his base by subsidizing farmers (i.e. making farmers a part of the often-targeted by the GOP “welfare state”.
4
A terrible economy will help Republican austerity type policies make sense again to a great many voters, just in time for the election.... how convenient!
2
What is more likely than what Trump believes is that the US economy is far weaker than he realizes, and that China is far stronger.
This is certainly true in the long run and it is more likely that China has greater short-term adaptability then we understand.
The US has a bubble economy, whereas China has a robust, steady momentum, high-growth economy diversified around the globe, backstopped by authoritarian social controls at home.
The US has stupidly picked a fight with a real live dragon.
10
@Fourteen14, China is far weaker. That's why their response is what it is. No crash and burn bond sales. They'd be cutting off their own noses. Why finance their brand.
1
My household’s checkbooks are closed for future business; we can see where this economy is headed & we are getting ready. We are only buying gasoline & food during the rest of 2019. Get ready for a bumpy ride!
8
@Fly over: What are you going to do if your car or washing machine gives up, or your home is damaged in a storm or flood, or you or one in your family gets seriously ill or has an accident that requires costly medical care? Do you have the reserves to cover that without dipping into your pension funds?
The market is already responding, and the tariffs have yet to take place. (China's start June 1, and Trump's begin once the ships that left port from China arrive on American shores.). We're in for a very rough ride.
@Barbara, We won't even notice it, except for the ones that gouge us under pretense.
How will Wall Street respond in the political arena? How will Fox News? There appears to be little that the soybean farmer can do other than vote (or run for local office). Single mothers may have to keep their children in tight sneakers for a few months more but they can vote, too. A retiree might have less to live on as he walks to the voting booth. If Wall Street suffers, will this powerful tool help to public to understand these apparently rash and ill thought actions? Will hedge fund managers simply take another vacation to get away from all the stress? How have Republican leaders fared over the past few days, apparently blind, deaf and dumb to this folly? Are these questions too much to ask, as regular folk postpone the purchase of a washing machine, as regular folk absorb what is estimated to cost an extra $700 per year in living costs this year? Will Paul Ryan's tax cuts help those folks?
8
My 401k is tanking and I am paying more for many of the things that I buy, so Trump's trade war is certainly not doing me any favors. Last year a new screen room cost me significantly more because of tariffs on wood from Canada and this year the products needed for my kitchen redo are constantly rising in price as I scramble to place my orders before prices go up even more.
But at least Trump was true to his word for a change - I am getting very tired of all this winning!
11
The executives are not the drivers of the economy; the consumers are.
6
@Nancy Brockway
True and this consumer sees where things are heading and is cutting spending back as much as possible.
5
My taxes have been raised by a large margin. I used to be able to deduct my state and local taxes (SALT). Now, I cannot deduct this because the Republican's eliminated the SALT deduction. Because I loose the SALT deduction, I also lost my Mortgage interest deduction, because the total amount of deductions is below the standard deduction. This means that there a big tax increase for me. Now combined with this increase in taxes, the President has increased taxes by waging a trade war with tariffs. Now I am taxed to death because of the Republican tax increases. Republican's are such a huge tax and spend party! The only taxes they reduced is on the very wealthy. This transferred the tax burden from the wealthy down to the masses.
26
This should show that Trump’s much-vaunted ‘great economy’ is an illusion that cannot be sustained. Every Democratic candidate should jump on this as a campaign issue. The one thing that’s buoyed Trump up to the extent it has is this so-called boom. It’s not even something he should take credit for; it was well under way during the Obama administration.
13
Macro Economics theory presupposes a trading market that is reasonably fair which is not the case with China. If we don't do something drastic now, we might as well rename our country China, Inc.
The relatively small pain is well worth it if we can correct at least some of the unfairness or, better yet, cut our addiction to products made an China, an inhumanely run country that is arguably our greatest and an extreme long term threat.
3
Share many of your concerns. But have strong doubts that this is the way to correct things. Fear race-to-the-bottom effect.
7
The pain is NOT small. If China is such a horrible actor, let it suffer in the marketplace. Americans are suffering while a policy-less administration stumbles along, having no plan except to make unrealistic demands on trading partners. What would be our reaction if China demanded that congress enact specific legislation about human rights in the US? Could they ask that white cops quit killing blacks indiscriminately?
1
@Patrick
You seem to be normalizing our bad actions with China's and, in all honesty, there is no comparison! Moreover, losing our country to China and then fighting a war against them after we have enabled them to become the super power to end all super powers is what I cal real pain. This is major national security issue that is the role of the government and should not be left to the materialistic, short-sighted masses.
2
Felicity Huffman may go to prison for faking grades to get her kid into a major university.
Trump went to U-Penn and "grad-je-ated" from the Wharton School there, yet doesn't understand the 1st things about tariffs known since Adam Smith.
1) Generally, they don't work.
2) Costs are borne by consumers as a tax and a regressive one.
3) They can be inflationary leading to recession.
4) The rare occasion when they work is to protect a specific infant industry for a limited time, usually in response to "dumping".
5) Trade wars are NOT "easy to win", but nearly impossible to win.
Donald Trump is simply The.Worst.Negotiator.Ever.
31
I vote we call it the 'Stable Genius' recession.
19
Wish the media would take the spotlight off trump and shine it 24/7 on McConnell for one. Daily pressure and shame with stories behind his constant refusal to do one thing about trump. Seems any reports of anything that could be done gets stopped in its tracks with "it won't pass the Senate." It is just overwhelming . We all know if Pres. Obama had done even one of the behaviors trump gets away with in a daily basis Republicans would have impeached in a heartbeat.
31
@ jeany
I whole heartily agree. Mitch McConnell has been the huge problem all along!
6
The raison d'être for Products 'made in China' is none other than to market products at the lowest price possible. That proportion of the US population that is price-sensitive or simply downright poor, are beneficiaries. Trump's intervention will make Chinese products more expensive and the US poor, poorer. It will also encourage US industry to go back to producing products which will inevitably one day be competed out of the market.
11
Everyday I am more convinced that the reason Republicans pass big tax cuts is so their rich donors can get their cut before the Republicans tank the economy, bankrupt the Treasury, and leave us in recession/depression. Same for plan since Coolidge. Can’t understand why the rubes haven’t caught on for a century. I guess racism is more satisfying than financial security.
35
The GOP has thrown everything in but the kitchen sink to stimulate the economy. Low interest rates and massive debt have stoked the bubble. They know that Trump is unpopular except for the economy's performance. Trump's escalation of tensions with Iran along with China trade war could badly harm the US economy.
12
Trump needs a course in Macro Economics 101. Trade wars don’t work. Trade wars raise prices and stifle (all) trade in the goods affected. Ironically, this probably hurts his base the most.
303
@HeyJoe
Trump does not care what Macro Economics says. He likes the chaos. it distracts from his other problems and hides what he is doing on border, including putting kids in cages.
112
@HeyJoe
Trump Firsters can't feel the pain because they are high on the drugs of racism and anti-virtue pushed by DJT and his troll farms. They can't stand to see anyone else do better and thrill to other people hurt and suffering. He's scoring not just with the politics of resentment but the politics of sadistic payback for being looked down on as backward, bigoted and uneducated.
The more they are called out for their ignorance and bigotry, the more they adhere to DJT as their hero...even if they have fewer jobs and lower wages than the generation before them. They can take a perverse pride in standing their ground.
127
@BJW "looked down on as backward, bigoted and uneducated." Sadly, so many people look UP to them for those very faults.
37
A tariff is a tariff is a tax. Ultimately, the cost is passed onto consumers who pay higher prices for products and hurts businesses that have to operate with global supply chains (which is nearly everybody). America needs an administration that can handle our relationship with China with finesse, not just send the bull into the china shop. Sorry for the pun.
316
Not a bad pun, but in the Department of Irony and Sarcasm this would fall into a snap shot of a "mouse in a tent full of elephants" panic.
19
@Eve I needed that pun!
14
According to classical economics, a minimum wage would cause a disaster to the economy too. But why didn't that happen?
4
So if we assume that the stock market will rise and fall on the whimsical tweets generated during trump's executive time, maybe we should wait it out.
The problem is that trump has no end game. What is he doing to encourge industries to return to the US that is positive? Manufacturers left America for other shores because we didn't want burning rivers and dead birds and so regulated pollution that killed a lot of manufacturing processes. We're still cleaning up after General Electric. They left to pay starvation wages to desparate people in places with no environmental controls.
trump will deregulate us back to the pollution years, even as he ignores the future need for clean power and stronger and more secure communications and utilities.
trump can fight China all he wants, but his winning makes most of America losers.
Regardless of bad Chinese trade practices, the trump team does not have the confidence of the American people to do right by us.
322
@Zeke27 he chose coal vs. green and solar, so there you go...
30
It was the quest for cheap labor, not environmental regulation, that drove so much manufacturing out of the US. One could easily make an economic argument that weak environmental laws ultimately add a hidden cost to manufacturing in the guise of an increased burden of health problems. Germany still has a strong manufacturing base but has stricter environmental laws than we do here. There are many manufacturers left in the US who are still thriving whose workplaces are models of worker safety and environmental responsibility. They invest in technology and in their workforce.
29
@Zeke27 confidence is an interesting choice of word....
1
Trump played his hand according to his skills with managing risks and understanding the people with who he does business, not really very well. Trump has spent all of life cultivating celebrity. That is the only kind of success he desires. He is perfectly happy with others buying a false reality in which he is a success in the media but barely keeping himself out of insolvency in real life. That's who he is.
During one period in his life, he snookered stockholders by pretending to be a corporate raider with unlimited money, just to artificially drive up stocks so he could sell them at a profit.
The stock market currently reflects uncertainty about how long the high tariffs will persist and how it will affect the economy in the future. If Trump cannot achieve a huge reform of how China does business, there could emerge a Chinese alternative economic block which depends upon technologies and finances determined by China. That is not possible for now but it is not impossible for the not too distant future. If Trump is not careful, he may make Americans buy American but be unable to sell anything that anyone in the global economy wants. That would be a disaster.
181
@Casual Observer
Great point. "Belt and Road" anybody? A 100% alternate economy that totally leaves out the U.S.A. is in the works as we speak.
Trump is simply adding lots of nitrogen to that growing beast.
4
@Casual Observer America right now has two advantages: its economy, and its military.
Its economy remains an advantage only so long as it is intimately tied to the world economy. If the rest of the world figures out how to be okay with an economy not driven by the US, that advantage dies away.
Its military is only important as long as it is the best solution available for problems that can only be addressed by military solutions that require American involvement. Again, if the rest of the world unites enough to support a combined military that supports its needs, perhaps occasionally paying the US for additional aid like the mercenary force Trump thinks it is, then America has little influence on the rest of the world because of its might.
Nationalistic isolationism in today's world is a road to marginalism. Of course, those whose wealth is multinational in nature would be fine with this. Unfortunately, that probably would end up leaving out at least 80% of the American population.
3
@Casual Observer
No matter how much I give thought to the challenge, I don't see how it's possible to reverse our post-industrial society.
We don't currently have the factories to produce all the goods we consume. We don't currently have the ability to produce the range of agricultural items and in the quantities we consume. We have business that are drawn by profit line to countries with lower wages and citizens who have been taught to expect less from employment overall.
None of this reality changes in a time frame of months if at all. This all together is a major glitch in the buy American idea. Trump claims Americans can avoid the higher costs of the tariffs (our new tax) by buying American. The view from his ivory, gold gilded tower seriously lacks oxygen for his brain, or alternately, he and his administration is just that obliviously and obtuse to life for the non-wealthiest. With Trump there's strong evidence of both from simple observation.
Add in automation, add in American Business growing disdain for really investing in their workforce, be it in any of the forms of living wages, full time status, quality of benefits (declining fast), training, or even some measure of acknowledging the need for work life balance. Do American workers need to get used the idea of being like workers in these other countries who have extremely low expectation of employers and employment? Is that where we're heading?
Trump gets to do all this because he inherited a good economy. Imagine what a disaster he would be if the economy had been bad when he got in office. Because of his decades-long animus against China he would have done exactly the same things, but most likely forced the economy back into a depression.
291
@Joe Rock bottom
Hey Joe, don't worry that his inheriting a good economy does not mean the economy will NOT be forced into a depression. Ever wonder how the King of Debt was able to live in style? Ever wonder who loaned him the money? No wonder he wants to hide is financial records!
47
@Wayne - Trump was elected because of ignorance, bigotry, dirty dealing and the electoral college.
39
@Wayne Evidence? It is surprising that you would comment on an article regarding the market and not know the history of the past 10 years of activity. Look at the graph of the major indexes and you would see steady growth for 8 years and 2 years of volatility from bad policy and asinine proclamation.
24
The irrational hopes that have buoyed the markets can only last so long. One expects that by the end of the day, or perhaps the week, they will find some new reason to believe that Trump will not continue down this path. Frankly, the concern about China or its companies stealing intellectual property, etc. may be warranted, but what exactly does this have to do with trade and tariffs? This strange conflation--human rights is as connected to soy beans, aluminum and steel as patents are--makes no sense other than there is some other game being played. Follow the money...
248
@Steve. Trump does not believe in constructive solutions to any problem. His answer for everything is to punish someone.
68
@Steve If you are stealing a thing that you ought to have bought, that has something to do with trade. If you market a product you stole, that has a whole lot to do with trade.
2
@fgros. I don’t think anyone is claiming that China is not a bad actor, in terms of trade, intellectual property, human rights, or other issues. What many question is whether picking reckless fights and behaving badly in turn are good for the USA or the world economy and whether that approach is likely to produce a result that most Americans want.
4
We are all getting a civics lesson. I had no idea that the president has unilateral power to impose tariffs on a whim, or on his ridiculous belief that “trade wars are easy to win”. And there is credible speculation about Trump cronies arranging market short selling ahead of these tariff announcements. After this presidency, I’m in favor of reining in the power of the executive branch, and finding a way to make the senate more representative and less skewed toward low population states. Our system of checks and balances turns out to be neither, when the players (read, “Republicans”) are unscrupulous.
712
@Just Curious
Indeed, Bloomberg reported awhile back that Carl Icahn, former Trump advisor, sold about $30 million of shares in crane manufacturer Manitowoc Co. in the weeks before President Trump said he would impose new tariffs on U.S. steel imports.
86
@Just Curious
Why wait until "after this presidency"?
It's quick and easy to get your car into a ditch, but it often takes a long time and lots of effort to get it out.
46
@Just Curious. So a tariff doesn’t have to be ratified by both houses of Congress? Trump can just do it as an executive order? Will the cowardly GOPs in the Senate allow Trump to govern by fiat?
39
What worries me is a president who says "Trade wars are good, and easy to win." Usually both sides lose. A tariff war was one of the factors that precipitated the Great Depression,
597
@Dan Woodard MD here we go...
11
@Dan Woodard MD, Yes, a great big beautiful Trade Wall put up by Herbert Hoover via the Smoot-Hawley Act.
Another vital factor though was the war reparations demanded of Germany, which British economist John Maynard Keynes had warned against in 1919. He rightly saw that the reparations would harm both the German economy and the recipients of the reparations. How could for example a U.S. manufacturer of steam locos compete against a manufacturer in Germany that was required to supply them for free? Obviously not.
Unfortunately very short-sighted "leaders" like Georges Clemenceau, David Lloyd George, and U.S. Republicans, as well as our own idiot Prime Minister William Morris Hughes, won the day.
36
@Dan Woodard MD
Good point. Maybe someone can capture that thought in simple cartoon images and show them to Trump.
19
I am illiterate...... but it has been easy to see that trump is knocking the piers out from under the Obama economic recovery..... his most desperate act so far to destroy what obama accomplished.
9
Good for China. They shouldn't put up with the US's childlike approach to trade anymore. They're not stupid people.
7
I’m sure everyone realizes trump calls his broker before he tweets. Why should we the people not believe this?
Out of touch hypocrites!
4
Does anyone ever look at the rowdy folks who show up at Trump rally's? Well, those folks voted for a president who was just like them! Now we're all reaping the benefit of ignorance.
13
The Chinese will never give Lighthizer/Navarro what they want. Chinese will stall and stall and stall until Trump is out of office and we are in a full-blown recession at which point the trade dispute will be resolved - WITHOUT giving up their rights to steal our stuff. Stealing our IP and technology is in their DNA - and they won't quit. Never.
Meanwhile, farmers are going bust and Trump is bragging about tariff income -conveniently not mentioning that American consumers and failing farmers are paying those tariffs. He is sneering at the American consumer every time he opens his mouth.
Count on Trump - true to form - he destroys everything he touches.
11
@Diana
China will be broken if that is how this ends up and even if it means Trump is not re-elected he will forever be my hero for breaking them at any cost to himself. So even if you are right, and its doubtful you are, worth it to me.
King Trump resurrecting Leftist national economic policy from the 70s and spineless Republicans waiting in line to kiss his ring. What a strange time, indeed.
I'll be shocked! shocked, I tell you! Should we discover how Trump and a few select cabinet members and maybe a GOP congressperson or so have made a few $billions shorting their not-so-surprising market crash.
7
I've added this comment before, "In comparison with George W. Bush and his administration, Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize in Economics." This is a little hiccup, the wave of a tiny pebble dropped into a idyllic little pond compared with the economic tsunami of the George W. Bush Administration.
And look well how we treated George W. Bush after he left office (and left a bunch of Americans in ruin). He was out there giving speeches and making millions. Yesterday George W. Bush had the nerve to show up at the AT&T Byron Nelson Golf Tournament.
We should consider ourselves lucky if we get out of the Trump administration without being fried in a nuclear war.
1
I finished reading several comments and realized a pattern here. People either remark that Trump is a narcissist (the most comments so far) or the man is deranged or our president simply loves drama. A few writers mention his previous bankruptcies as a harbinger of doom for his trade war.
Not me. I'm sticking with the explanation that occurred to me the night of the election: Trump was put into office to do the bidding of Vladimir Putin.
Think about it. Isn't this kind of economic turmoil exactly what the leader of Russia would want happening in America? Ditto for the hatred Trump's sown and the divisiveness he creates anew each morning. And there's the cruelty he throws in for fun. The cruelty, by the way, is not a bug but a feature.
Nikita Khrushchev may have been the one who said it back in the 60s--"We will bury you"--but Putin is the one who'll accomplish it. With the help of DJT.
11
@TinyBlueDot
Trump may be a Putin puppet, but now he is practically begging China to interfere in our 2020 election. And unlike Russia, I don't think China is going to be on his side.
2
@Joyce
So its ok if they interfere as long as they aren't doing it to benefit him? Surprised you would admit that but I did already know it.
How do you make a small fortune? Start with a big one. Now it appears Trump is trying to throw a spanner into the American (buy from the world, sell to the world) economic machine. Trump's isolation and protectionism mentality works so well for his dictator friends in Russia, South Korea and Hungary. Let's give it a try here!
"The pace of economic growth has slowed in much of the world." A haiku on the above quote: money does not grow/not like flowers and larva/it seeps through the cracks
All the Wall Street traders who bet on Trump being semi-rational, or Trump being pulled back from economic mayhem by 'adults in the room' are going to lose... All the adults have left, or been pushed out by Trump. There's nothing holding him back... and as long as his "base" doesn't catch on to how -they- are the people actually paying those Trump Tariffs, as well as the people paying to bail out the Big Ag that's facing low crop prices, there's nothing to hold him back. Trump inherited a smoothly growing economy, continuing over seven years of growth. Trump's "Tax Reform" giveaway to the wealthy and big corporations, with it's 15% sop to the middle class dumped in for the first couple years, overheated the economy... and now Trump seems determined to get that "biggest tax cut ever" back from the 'little people', as they pay for his Trump Tariffs at Walmart, Target and Kohl's... while the layoffs start as US businesses face much higher prices on Chinese components and materials. Trump -will- wreck this economy with his incompetence, it's just a question of how long it takes to destroy the whole thing and launch the Trump Recession. If we look long term, we can hope the Trump Recession starts soon, and tanks his re-election... bitter medicine, but better for the long run, maybe.
3
Just as wages started finally to rise particularly for lower income workers here comes the Tax Evader to impose new taxes on cheap goods. Other than that China is ripping us off.
4
What did Wall Street think when they got the least distinguished businessman in the world and allowed him to be in charge of the American economy? Tax cuts and candy everyday?
What they got was "Tariff-Man." A man who tonight is urging American consumers to boycott products made in China and only shop at All-American stores, like Walmart.
4
Presumably your reference to Walmart as all-American was meant as irony? Walmart gets lots of its goods from China....
1
@Nancy Brockway
Yes, Nancy...that was the joke!
2
This US-China trade war will continue as long as Trump in the White House. Because he believes he can beat the Chinese and Chinese really need our American dollars. He is both right and wrong. China's dictator and a buddy of Trump, Xi Jinping already told Trump through Chinese Communist Party's mouth piece, the People's Daily, that Chinese people wants to settle the differences with the US.,but warns it will not change its systems and can weather a lengthy stand off . Xi's paper says the US cannot control China, and it is even less likely that it can deter China's development. This message to Trump has 8,000 Chinese characters and it is too long for me to finish and it is also difficult for any Americans to understand. I wonder what are our trade negotiators and trade delegation members are going to do about this. This trade war may last long after our 2020 national election. Americans better wake up and it is going to be a new long march for the Chinese Trade Army. Joe Biden may handle the rich crazy Chinese better. Patience is the key word to win. My advice to Americans is stop buying things made in China. Could we do this?
1
@Mclean4
You said, "My advice to Americans is stop buying things made in China. Could we do this?"
Hey, Trump has the same idea! Tonight he's calling for American consumers to boycott China and only shop at Walmart!!
1
@Mclean4 - "My advice to Americans is stop buying things made in China."
I stopped buying Trump branded items long ago.
At least you can buy things from Korea. Or Singapore, Malaysia, Viet Nam, Bangladesh, and India where so many Chinese and Korean made goods have migrated to already. I did buy an "American built" snowblower last year. Of course it had a Chinese made engine and other components because the American company that built those things is long gone.
Who cares what happens to the rest of us or the rest of the world, so long as Donald Trump is having fun, tweeting away, golfing often, and watching TV. He gets off on messing with you, if you haven't gotten that yet. It's the core motivator of his needs and wants. He's digging the presidency. Never thought he'd be given the keys to the world. Remember that picture of him at the wheel of the truck on the White House lawn? Well, it's an apt metaphor. He's careering down the highway in love with himself and the trappings of power. Will he crash the country? The stock market? The world? Not to worry. Whatever the consequences, he'll always declare a win.
18
Tariff never work. Tariffs are a tax on every American consumer and are operation welfare. Companies in the USA can run at a low efficiency and pay out big dividends.
4
Bannon & Trump see the tariffs as a means to an end, the end is an economic war with China. Bannon stated this nationalistic view in the Frontline documentary “Trump’s Trade War.”
STEVE BANNON: “The most intense fights and debates in the White House were about this issue of tariffs, but tariffs as a proxy to the great economic war with China that we’re engaged in.
There’s no middle ground. One side’s going to win and one side’s going to lose, and so we knew the stakes were high.”
3
Mexico will pay for the wall. China will pay for the tariffs. Interesting that it's always someone else that's supposed to pay and we are to benefit from it.
This pattern seems to be a repeat of past business practices, someone else's money, someone's else's efforts, but for my benefit.
24
It appears in several articles that #45 does not understand the gravity or meaning of his tariff actions. Isn’t that comforting. Here he is raising our living expenses because he is collecting billions in tariffs. That is true, but the pass throughs by home grown importers and buyers is stealing our paychecks with higher prices. Trump does not fully understand this?
13
Chaos manufacture is what fuels malignant narcissists like trump. It makes him feel relevant. Every single action: from his treatment of migrants, tweeting out insults, threatening to fire anyone who might find out who he really is, cheating at marriage and at golf, stiffing contractors and the American people: It is all of a piece, and unless and until he is stopped, this craziness will continue.
34
Unlike the economic Trifecta of Doom he gave us over the past holidays, this time the Fed isn't doing its part with a rate increase. But I think there's still an outside chance Tarriff Man can double down on stupid by pulling out some kind of partial government shut down.
6
The POTUS loves drama! Here we go again! We got what we voted for!
5
@Paul Blais The "WE" does not include me!!!
3
No worries. Trump promises that Mexico will pay for the Chinese tariffs.
16
If C + G + I + T = GDP Then does consumer spending drop due to tariffs or is C just the same amount of money spent on fewer goods? If China sells 2 year bonds will that create a 2:10 bond yield inversion dropping the amount of investment “I” in the equation above and tip us into a recession? I hope China does not make an unstable situation worse. I think they know this and retaliated on goods that are not being imported into their country after the last round of tariffs. I do think they need to play by the rules but an international coalition and a trade federation, like the WTO, might be more effective at changing their behavior instead of making it news. It would be a lost opportunity to use our historically low rates of inflation on tariffs (a tax) instead of using the low inflation to drop the natural rate of unemployment to below 2%. Maybe he does not want to get re-elected.
5
Imagine: One could short the market and do exceedingly well on a day like today, especially with inside information, and the distraction? What could trump this distraction! Oversight? Who owns the Supreme Court? The SEC?
14
I am willing to weather a stock market downturn if it results in Trump losing in 2020. Sit tight and vote blue. The market will eventually come back.
49
an economic slowdown in the highest carbon emitting nations is always good news in the fight against climate change. a global economic slowdown would be great news. this is called a silver lining.
10
@drollere Yep. Win-win. Black eye for Trump and slowdown in productivity. Sad that we have to root for a failure in the system to stave off (however nominally) planetary collapse.
5
A six time loser in bankruptcy court running the country's economy without oversight. Great plan. Good news for the wealthy, however, as they have the means to make money in an up or down market. The big losers ? Your working stiffs counting on their 401Ks to get them by in their retirement.
46
Since January 2018, our investments have earned an unrealized gain of 1%. After today, we feel lucky to have anything left at all.
3
@Elizabeth Carlisle Sure, the Dow went up since 2016, but I am referring to unrealized gains since Jan, 2018. Also more importantly, the Dow does not reflect a diversified marketplace.
1
The worst is yet to come. Many years ago I started a diary. The first entry began: "October 19, 1987"
After a short summary of my decision to retire from the practice of law to become a weaver, I wrote: "Today is also the day the Dow Jones went down 508 points. It is already being called Black Monday, although Blue Monday would probably have done better in these times. A person with a "Dow Jones Portfolio" valued at $100,000 at the start of the day had a "paper loss" of $22,600.00.
We are wondering, of course, how it will affect business. Already there had been talk of a weak consumer market for Christmas. If the market does not correct - or if consumer confidence is badly shaken - will we be able to sell? It may be people will not be willing to to pay $55.00 for a scarf or $195.00 for a sweater. On the other hand, perhaps a person might allow themselves small luxuries - and buy a $195.00 sweater instead of a $1,950.00 fur."
Today is not yet that day, but it portends a great danger. Reckless government is threatening our econmic well-being, and our safety, as well. Perhaps we'll even see war in Iran to cover for economic losses at home. Those well-springs of power are in the President's hand; but it will be further evidence of his intractable incompetence.
Don't worry about impeachment. This President will drive himself out of office. He couldn't run a business ethically or successfully (Unless skimming is called running a business). Neither can he run the government.
23
Narcissists make the rules, break the rules they make and move the goal posts whilst you play. Lie, cheat and gaslight without impunity. Flying monkeys do their bidding so they never get their hands dirty. They throw them under the bus when they falter.
Cheat and bully is the way they operate. Potus
22
When Donald Trump was running for president in 2016, there were many of us who warned loudly that this man would most assuredly wreck the country in more ways than one can count - economically, socially, politically and environmentally. After two-plus years of chaos, incivility and poor judgment, this has already come to pass - with much, much more to come. An illiterate, criminal autocrat is running our country and no one is stopping him. It's time to act now. Our children's and grandchildren's future is at stake. Get out and vote in 2020 and tell all your friends, young and old, to vote - or we will be doomed as a country.
57
Narcissists, makes the rules and breaks the rules, moves the goal posts whilst you play. Lies and cheats and gas-lights without impunity. Con artist extraordinaire. Has his flying monkeys do his bidding so his hands never get dirty. Throws them under the bus when they falter. Bullying and cheating are his way of doing business. Potus.
6
@Stan
I am hoping for more downside, you can always short stocks and make money. The stock market always people to make a lot of money wether the market is going up, down or sideways. The price of stocks has hit ridiculous highs in spite of the lack of splits. The futures markets can make money the same.
No recession in the short-term. Inflation is steady, job growth is goo and many families income has risen. It may be another year or two to enter a recession as companies slowly pull back.
You sound like you side with China for your own reasons which might be valid, but you never mentioned anything than the market going down which will create a recession. Instead it will allow a new generation of wealthy Millennials an beyond. I guess it’s okay for China to steal our technology and put more tariffs and 15% higher tariffs for the past decade on us than we ever did to them until now. They are a protectionist state. Maybe this will “Bring Back American Jobs”. We may pay more but it will be made in the USA and that is good for the economy.
So Sell High, Short High and Cover at the bottom, and then buy with all the money you make going short at the time.
@@kf Amorality at its finest.
Just another day with that Trump fella in the White House. Complimenting the anti-semitic nationalist bigot head of Hungary (leading me to the conclusion, that Trump lied when he said there are good people on both sides. Nope, there are only good people on his side is what he really thinks).
Then there was Trump's lopping 600 points off the Dow Jones and then hunkering down to threaten more damage. (Maybe bankruptcy is a thing he likes to do)
And he continues to lie with impunity and with the defense of his praetorian guard in the Senate.
17
Deranged Donnie the Dotard is at it again. He had 6 personal bankruptcies and is now going for his 7th, pushing the U.S. into a downturn and maybe recession. Which will then lead to a global downturn. Thanks, Donnie, anything to satisfy your ego, regardless of the effects it may have on others.
Just a continuation of my management style before you became president. You got out of problems by declaring bankruptcy, plus Daddy's money. But you cannot do that now. The rules have changed and the stakes are bigger. This ain't a reality TV show now, it's the Real World and your actions have real world consequences.
21
Sell high, buy low. Is all that comes to mind to me right now. Tomorrow is another day for the stock market. If I was a buyer and my favorite stock was cheaper thanks to Trump, would I really not buy just to spite him and give the Democrats satisfaction? Fat chance. Greed is good. America’s not going anywhere.
I checked all the stocks on my watch list. Everything is still quite overpriced, so I'm not worrying....and I'm not stepping in to buy, either.
3
Wall Street pulls these stunts periodically so the very rich can make short sales later and make a bundle. The fundamentals of the US economy are strong and stronger than China's. China does not buy our stuff in significant quantities anyways, so they can raise their tariffs to 100% if they want. Stand strong President Trump and administration. You are doing the right thing with China.. The Chinese may be " proud " but not proud enough to stop stealing our emerging technology and intellectual property.
2
Move your business to New Zealand as we don't have tariffs and do free trade deals. Businesses in NZ are doing OK. Many USA people move here because we are a welfare state. We're fussy on having to pay minimum wages that are set nationwide by central government. Free childcare, 6 months maternity leave when a baby is born to either a father or mother, no gun nuts or obsession with guns, government paid for National Super when you retire and free hospital treatment the government pays for, and it's not far from the USA in plane.
There is a big shortage of tradespeople in NZ and people who work with computers and other people with skills. It's on the NZ Immigration page.
We're also part of the belt and road initiative as well. Population of NZ nearly 5 million so lots of room for growth in a young nation, now and in the future.
31
So what about the steel and aluminum Tarriff against Canada? Why are we a national security threat? Are we China?
15
@albeaumont, the tariffs agains aluminum and steel are because Deranged Donnie does not like your Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, whom he feels insulted him when he criticized the Dotard. It's not for security reasons, but for personal, petty reasons.
14
@David2017
I hate to say this, but while the tariffs are on, so what? It really doesn’t matter why. That doesn’t make the tarriffs any better. The US has lost so many sympathetic Canadians about this. I wish I could say “Best Wishes”. We are still not buying US if we don’t have to. The US won’t get rich from my buying parsley and cilantro.
5
Trade wars are fun! And they're easy to win! I heard it on Fox News.
On a far more serious note, we all had better start worrying about him starting a real war, in Iran.
26
Why do I think Mr. Trump has no idea what he is doing related to U.S. issuing economic policies (or much of anything else)? Especially since Trump does not read except about himself, seek or heed information and wise advice, or anticipate the consequences of his behavior on other people or this country.
So to protect this country first (America First, not Trump First), let's say President (6 Bankruptcies) Trump cannot issue any more economic policies (tariffs, wiping out or changing trade agreements,etc.) until we see his tax returns for the past 6 years and can know where and with whom his investments and loans are, and where there conflicts of interest with his businesses and running this country.
22
Good thing we have a stable genius in charge. I'm sure this is all part of the plan.
19
The American economy has grown since 2016 because of President Obama's efforts. After that, it grew because of Trump's "tax reform", which poured trillions into the pockets of the ultra-rich.
Trump has no cards left to play. Our children are now saddled with massive federal debt that they did not benefit from. The immutable laws of arithmetic will eventually prevail. This story will not have a happy ending.
38
@Always Larry
Presidents have no effect on economies. Not in either direction.
Tax cuts were Paul Ryan's. Mitch McConnell helped get it passed in the Senate. The Illegitimate One was just a deer in the headlights. He didn't even understand how the House and Senate operate in passing legislation much less did he know how to write tax laws.
The Illegitimate One is benefitting from the Obama economy -- he, unlike President Obama, inherited a growing economy with more consecutive months of job growth than ever before in history. Of course a huge tax cut puts sugar into the markets (as does environmentally-destructive deregulation)… but both choices are short-term, immoral and irresponsible.
In short, the Illegitimate One is destroying the nation in every conceivable way. Short term greed by those in the stock market is going to be the undoing of this republic!
The illegitimate One has created a monster and a disaster in North Korea. He's utterly treasonous with Putin -- his obvious puppet master. And now he's making America a laughing stock with China -- putting American farmers on government welfare to offset his blunders, and car manufacturers will be hurting next. It wasn't bad enough that he signed the 2017 tax bill that created the largest national debt and deficits in world history, now he's destroying the entire economy with risky trade wars. He's rolling the dice with other people's money again! And he's hurting consumers (working class) in order to reward himself and the super rich.
63
The trade war was initiated by Trump, not only with China but with Europe as well, following the absolute partisan and biased 'economics' by someone like Navarro. The problem is the FED will now 'back' whatever effect this may cause in the U.S. economy and, bizarrely including the accompanying markets somersaults. New fonctions for the FED it looks like. Can all of this become the 'new normal'? Economist around the world are scratching their heads. Furthermore Europe is dealing with and endless Brexit and populist startles. China can count with and 'orderly' economy under state strong surveillance in addition to a huge although 'disciplined' population that could start becoming an important and amazing consumer factor. U.S. now, it seems, cannot backtrack and China neither...
Next elections in U.S. could adamantly change the course of this story which is becoming the History of our times.
6
Conman and art of the go broke-fraudster in charge. What do you expect?
17
@Mr. Chocolate There ought to be a law against that sort of thing. Wait, there is. But he still gets elected prez. Only in America.
13
To responders who have (or will) deflect criticisms of their president's courageous China stand by pointing to the overall gains in "his" stock market since the largest crowds ever gathered to celebrate his inauguration...
The bulk of the Trump markets bump can best be attributed to exponentially, potentially devastatingly costly deregulations weakening environmental and financial best practices and protections. Consider these costs in addition to the precipitously mounting national debt when you calculate what a several thousand point (again reversing) gain in the markets has bought and justify Tarriff Man's stance toward China,
17
Dow Jones today;
25,324.99
Dow Jones January 27 2017;
20,093.78
25,324.99 - 20,093.78 = 5,231.21
(5,231.21/20,93.78)* 100= 26.0339%
Up 26% since trump took office
A.K.A. Winning
5
@akeptwatchoverthewatcher the DOW was 24,834 on Dec. 29, 2017. And it is barely over 25,000 seventeen months later. Who is drinking the Kool-Aid
78
@akeptwatchoverthewatcher
Only by making trillion dollars of tax cuts that went back into stocks and thus artificially inflating them that much. Smart people right now are not looking nicely at how inflated prices really are, they are shuddering instead.
40
@JMM
25,324.99 - 24,834 = 490.99
(490.99/24,834)*100= 1.977%
Thats an increase of almost 2% during a trade war pretty good return.
The Dow Jones is worth$ 6.5 trillion dollars that means from December to today US economy earned $123.5 billion U.S. dollars.
The conversation is mostly misplaced. Trump had little to do with the rise of the stock market and he really doesn't have a lot to do with its corrections.
So far.
He is clearly an inept reality TV host. Vain, ignorant, mercurial. But, despite rhetoric he hasn't done much of substance. Tax cuts were mostly Paul Ryan's doing. Certainly, if he keeps up his "twitter diplomacy" he may yet cause real economic damage. But he hasn't so far.
What's really in play here is the good ole' irrational exuberance" riding the asset bubble characteristic of a late stage bull market. Which must come to an end at some point.
This wake up call is recognition that China is not a benign power. And "Chinese markets" long priced into the stocks of the multinationals will not be coming to fruition. That's a serious change in the macro outlook for the economy and for growth of the likes of Apple and tech giants.
6
The leader of the free world and world's largest economy is an unstable narcissist. What could possibly go wrong?
41
We know that DJT was an amateur stock market manipulator in his pre-White House days. What if the current round of China tariffs is nothing more than a way of temporarily beating down a bull market for the benefit of his pre-warned friends and family? SEC, are you watching?
55
@Richard And simultaneously making everyday life harder for the average working man. We see right through you, Trump!
5
May I remind everyone of the fantastic Times reporting on the Donald's business losses in the eighties and after: only a billion dollars. And he says now "Don't worry."
22
@Gloria Bowles I'm thinking he has stocks he wants to short sell. I'm trying to make sense of his nonsense. Some I think is to help pay off his loans with the Russian mob/Putin, the others may well be about making money on the side.
26
We would be so much stronger economically against china if we had signed the TPP. AND maybe, just maybe gotten our allies (who he is alienates) to go along with a tariff strategy. However Trump can't see past his nose because he's been blinded by tanning beds. Weeeee!
p.s. I'm such a good armchair diplomat!
15
Just as Trump did with his bankrupt casino operations, so too, he is driving the United States into the dirt! Heck of a job, Donnie!
23
The Art of the Deal vs. The Art of War. One was ghostwritten and its (real) author is asking for it to be reclassified as fiction. The other one has over 16 centuries of history and is still studied at the Army War College.
Guess which one will win out?
23
Trump thought he could bully our main trading partner -- one who has worked a century or so to rise back there after getting ransacked and humiliated by Western imperial powers -- but has painted himself into a corner because China won't give in and Trump would rather ruin us than de-escalate and look weak during a new campaign season.
The GOP needs to step up and help remove him from office before things get much worse.
45
@D.A.Oh
Humiliated by Western Imperial powers?? The reason Jack Ma supports a 12 hour work day is not because of Western Imperial powers.
It's because China has a heck of a lot of catching up to to thanks to Mao and his "Cultural Revolution."
3
The suspicion of Lauwai or foreigner remains strong today in China . The Chinese have long memories and have never forgotten The British and The Opium Wars . Nor will they ever forgive the Japanese and the occupation of their country, and the subsequent ‘Rape of Nanjing.’ The Chinese do not trust the USA as they see the USA as a possible invader . As America has shown throughout the 20th Century . It is not afraid to send it’s young to fight and die in lands far , far away.@Frank J Haydn
4
@Frank J Haydn Read some history about China and the West - check out the historical trading situation and the so called 'unequal treaties'.' The Chinese have long memories, a very long time horizon and national pride. They know about suffering - the US cant compare.
9
I totally dislike Trump, but it is fascinating to read comments from ideologues that have no understanding of finance.
If I am your biggest customer, I have leverage over you. It is that simple. How this power is used, for financial, or social gain (humanitarian issues perhaps) is up to the customer, which in this case, is the United States.
6
@Bob, not that simple, actually. You cannot reliably analogize between micro- and macroeconomics. In macro, there is a zero sum game. Yes, we pay China money, but we get stuff that we use to build things and then resell internally and externally, and turn those things into even more money. If we can’t get the stuff, then our own companies can’t profit. Therefore China has just as much leverage over us as we do them. Suggest you stick to your lane.
30
@Defector
Guns and butter only work inside a confined area. If not it's like having a bucket with a bunch of tiny holes. the water is cheap that it's flowing mostly back to the ground.
The best way guns and butters work is
Mississippi builds guns because Mississippi has low labor costs. Sells guns to the rest of the United States. Meanwhile Wisconsin creates butter much cheaper due to all of the cows there. When you go in and you buy butter from somebody in Wisconsin that money is circulated around the United States being taxed and providing jobs for others. How does the common Chinese man spend money at my local grocery store.
99% of all business has less than 500 employees in the USA, making small business the number one employer. when money is spent and redistributed into a different economy you lose out on tax revenue and buying power. In your local economies.
@akeptwatchoverthewatcher
And we pay for Mississippi to have low labor cost. We send more funds to red states in welfare and personal addictions. Trump administration has paid billions in farm subsidies to prop up failing farms. They have recently been decimated by torrential rains that may finished many farmers.
14
Boeing and Apple shares fell so much due to tariffs?
What about Max problems and Apps decision by Supreme Court?
Trump, the 'very stable genius' has done it again! Goodness! He really understands how to change people's reality, doesn't he? The man's not only a stable genius, but he's a stock market genius too. Trump thinks he's playing China; but in fact, China is playing Trump – like a fiddle! Forecast? A low pressure zone has settled over the economy. Stormy days ahead; stability far off on the horizon.
16
@Mark Alexander Don't worry. All of his friends sold their stocks before the announcements and are buying them back now. What a world!
22
@Petrus Maximus Sounds rather corrupt, doesn't it? As you say: What a world! Honesty, it seems, no longer pays. The world as we knew it has been turned upside-down.
Trump is a 6 year old. I remember being 6. Your friend says "I am worth a million", You say "OK, I am worth a billion".
Your friend goes straight to triple dog-dare, and says "I am worth infinity", and thinks he's master and champion.
You come back with "WELL, I AM WORTH INFINITY + 1. HA!"
Wrong, Trump. In the end, you walk away with your gold-plated airplane toilets, and the rest of us are without our nest eggs.
To all you Trump devotees, I respect your devotion, but I hope you like powdered eggs and meatless hamburger helper. That's the substance you support.
38
@Jon
Sounds like you have a lot to lose.
3
Who's surprised? -- ANYONE who has been even vaguely aware of what's going on with Trump's recent and escalating tariff war on China knows they'll retaliate in kind, and in a moment's notice.
And yet, does this president who only lives "in the moment", even realize, or care that in the end it's the average American consumer who will eat the costs?
Think about it.
26
@N. Smith - I keep thinking, "who cares less about the people, and who has less to lose?" The Chinese president can't lose, and is quite good at building dams that annihilate towns for infrastructural purposes. Sooooo... Good luck TD. Race to the bottom with him if you want, but you won't last long.
6
@Petrus Maximus
Now -- all you have to do is convince his "base" of this, because sooner than later they'll start to feel he pinch...as will the rest of us.
4
If only Donald Trump wasn't hiding from the American people the Trump Organization's profitable advantage arising from his occupation of the Oval Office of the White House in his personal, family and business income tax returns and records.
Then the American people would know what is really motivating the Trump tariff war with China.
Russia if you are listening can you let the American people know?
China? Iran? North Korea?
28
The impact on the stock market of Trump’s tweets and sudden policy changes are easily predictable. Has anyone considered that Trump may disclose his intentions to “trusted advisors” who then buy or short stocks on Trump’s behalf? That could be one way to dig himself out of the losses previously disclosed by the NYT.
31
@Robert
Oh come on. A 2.5 percent drop in the stock market is a mere bagatelle.
3
@Frank J Haydn - options on the indices/individual stocks (ie weekly spy puts 285 strike up 700% today)
3
@Frank J Haydn (To be sure, I wouldn't presume on this unsubstantiated insider trading though I would tend to doubt it for various reasons)
1
"The trade war between the United States and China could last indefinitely."
Or until Jan. 20, 2021. It's up to the America's voting citizens.
23
Trump loves to be a bully.
It’s expensive for Americans.
17
Donald Trump along with his minions Steve Mnuchin, Robert Lighthizer and Larry Kudlow have mounted a direct assault on the American consumer with their antiquated tariff ideas, ideas which are being paraded around for maximum effect with the economically ignorant.
Americans will pay the tariff bill on U.S. imports from China, and the Chinese will pay the tariff bill on the much lower imports from the U.S.
China is not going to give up their politically popular ideas about intellectual property.
For those who are slow learners, the 25% tariff is a new U.S. government imposed tax of 25% on 543 billion ($135 billion if imports kept pace), mostly on consumer goods we buy from China. That's almost 7/10 of a percentage point of GDP. China will be inconvenienced but will just import, for example, soy beans from Brazil and Argentina, airplanes from Airbus, and make and use their own cell phones. American taxpayers will be paying to support American farmers, otherwise it's just shareholders and employees of American companies. And for example,once the soybean market is rearranged it's likely to stay that way. Soybeans and airplanes are almost completely fungible and not in short spply- the U.S doesn't own the market on either one. Apple is unique but their phones can easily be replaced. This is just another Trump attention-getting scheme.
27
As an aside, why do stories like these always show a picture of some generic floor trader? Almost all trading nowadays is done by computers on an automated basis with algorithms. Just show a picture of some random server instead.
13
@Andy I could almost swear this same fellow with goatee, dramatically disheveled tufts of white hair, and aghast expression is rolled out every time the market drops.
7
Gotta hand it to Trump, the billion dollar loser-he does know how to get the stock market excited...in adverse ways.
How long will the Trump War On Trade last before the icons of business attempt, attempt being the key word, to get Trump to relent?
At what level of market loss will it take for the Trumpublicans to realize their folly in backing a lame horse should the trade turmoil continue?
When consumers begin to feel the pain of tariffs (no, China is not paying that tax, we the consumer pays that tax) and profits begin to sag will those who still believe in MAGA still believe?
When the farmers, faced with debt and the prospect of no profit from farming, will they finally admit they were duped by a con artist?
Sadly, many are still star struck by the grifter and will stick with him as they pay more for those consumer goods. But, ya break it ya bought it and their gullibility made them greedy.
Yes indeed, the winning...
17
Does Trump own any of the stocks that are being insider/ manipulated by all of this foreign policy he has? Just saying but I would love to know.
21
@Missy
Unlike his predecessors, Trump's investment exposure is unknown since he refused to reveal his holdings.
14
Don’t count Trump out.
His PhD thesis at Wharton was how to apply John Nashe’s
Game Theory to international negotiations.
Ha ha
12
Better run DJT’s ‘thesis’ through Turnitin to check for plagiarism. I can’t believe he ever wrote a paper in his life.
6
@New World
He doesn't have a PhD. His Wharton "degree" was a bachelors.
4
I am pretty sure New World was being sarcastic ;-)
3
Another NOT brilliant move by a hopeless narcissist -- phooey!
11
So much winning. Covfefe.
26
How about saying how may points it dropped?
2
This will make the $1+B the president lost over 10 years look like chump change - at the expense of the American taxpayer, again.
18
Previous Presidents most notably Bush and Obama were complete failures with respect to China! If President Trump had not taken this strong stance, China would have become the superpower in future. Obama was all talk and no action and he let the Chinese totally dictate us, Thank you, President Trump - you are fit on dot in spite oi what liberal papers talk.
3
@N D B If US companies hadn’t run to China to save on labor costs we would not be on this road. The US has tried before to take China to task legally for their actions, but the same companies that complained refused to cooperate because they didn’t want to be locked out of China.
In dozens of interviews with U.S. government and business representatives, officials involved in commerce with China said hacking and theft were an open secret for almost two decades, allowed to quietly continue because U.S. companies had too much money at stake to make waves.
Wendy Cutler, who was a veteran negotiator at the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, says it wasn't just that U.S. businesses were hesitant to come forward in specific cases. She says businesses didn't want the trade office to take "any strong action."
12
I just want to know who the distinguished looking chap with the lush silver hair is in the pic accompanying this article. He turns up in many, many photos taken on the trading floor (I presume) of the NYSE, with good reason, given how photogenic he is, and I’m curious if he gets royalties for appearing so frequently! He certainly is a good looking gentleman, IMO, but of course my opinion may be influenced a little because we both have about the same amount of hair, even though mine, while almost as silvery as his is, just isn’t quite as luxurious! :)
3
I just wrote the same comment. I think they need to do a close up on this guy.
2
After reading about how much money Trump has lost in his businesses over the years, is anyone still surprised that his actions will cause U.S. citizens to join him in losing money? Does he really understand tariffs? He keeps saying that they "bring money into the U.S." Even I know that is incorrect.
28
How can the GOP ever recover from this debacle? Kowtowing to an incompetent street hustler is bad enough, but to become a willing servant of a serious communist dictator is quite another.
We will need a new honorable opposition party once Trump is removed.
16
@Cleareye
As long as they continue to appeal to the fragility of whites and throw red meat at christian conservatives, they'll be a factor.
10
"With tax season drawing to a close, H&R Block reports that its average customer paid $1,200, or 25 percent, less in federal tax in 2018 than 2017, providing one of the first pieces of hard data on how the federal Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is affecting people in the real world."^1
"Friday's tariff hike to 25% on a bulk of U.S. imports from China will cost the American economy $62 billion by next year, according to data from Oxford Economics. That total translates to $490 per household. More extreme protectionist policies would cost $800 per household."^2
The average American will not feel the tarrifs. Even in the most extreme case the average American will still see an increase in purchasing power by $400. This puts the administration in a great position of leverage against the Chinese.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/networth/article/New-data-shows-how-much-people-are-really-saving-13757828.php ^1
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/trumps-new-tariffs-will-cost-americans-about-500-per-household-by-one-estimate.html ^2
1
@akeptwatchoverthewatcher What is the error factor of the analysis along with the sample and was the sample random?
Other economists are predicting much more adverse effect on the taxpayer of upwards of a thousand dollars.
No, the picture is not as rosy as your statement would have us believe as it does not take into account other factors.
5
@akeptwatchoverthewatcher
The data from H & R Block was only through March when people expecting returns would have filed. People who have to pay usually don't file until April 15th or even extend the time.
Your man is suggesting another bailout of $15 billion to the farmers suffering from his tariffs in addition to the previous $12 billion. It doesn't appear you have factored those tax dollars into the equation.
You do understand there is no "tariff acccount", right? You understand companies are paying the costs of the tariffs imposed on the goods imported, correct? And then those costs are borne by us, the consumers?
12
@Dan
Oxford Economics is a leader in global forecasting and quantitative analysis, with the world's only fully integrated economic model and 250 full-time economists. They are non-partisan and international. As an economist I trust their numbers. It's also not difficult come up monetary value of increase. The increases are known and prices are known and average products bought by household are also known.
1
Trust me. We don’t want most of those manufacturing jobs from China. China is polluted and contaminated beyond repair
If you walked around the main cities in China with a Geiger counters in your backpack, it would be clicking all the time.
Here is a wiki link to contamination in China.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_in_China#Industrial_pollution
3
Sir Tanks A-Lot strikes again...!
7
There is just one consistency with Trump and it is his destructiveness: from the spreading of racism to xenophobia, now moving from the denial of climate change to trade wars. When will Congress wake up and smell the proverbial coffee? Has even one member ever looked at the views of the religious leaders around this man? They champion this guy for his destructiveness and ushering in their insane utopian reign. I contend that until we realize that we are dealing with a demagogue we will be asleep at the wheel. If Congress is waiting until the 2020 election, they are waiting for him to ignore an election. We are not dealing with normal. Listening to James Comey’s town hall meeting last week on Anderson Cooper’s CNN had one segment that just confirmed everything I’ve experienced. Comey told what it is like trying to work around a habitual liar. His testimony on Trump’s behavior took me back to being a chaplain in a forensic mental health prison. Congress needs to realize the gravity of who they are dealing with.
23
Anyone else have the bad feeling that Trump is on a desperate, fatalistic murder-suicide mission? He reminds me of Jim Jones. He’s a narcissist and a megalomaniac. His followers are a brainwashed cult. The really sad part is that rest of us - the sane people - are at their mercy.
60
@Kurt yes, I have thought that, often and for quite some time. He is very much like cult leader Jim Jones.
Can someone get ahold of DJT’s college grades? I’m wondering if he flunked ECON002- Macroeconomics.
27
@Arthur, One of Donald's professors at Wharton -- BTW, not the MBA program to which he would not have been admitted -- said that he was one of the stupidest students he ever tried to teach.
3
This trader looks like the Miller Highlife he poured into his DeLorean nuclear reactor isn't taking him Back to the Future the way he planned. Could the shorts not be working out?
1
Stock market has always been a bit like legalized gambling. Now I feel that the dealer has stacked the cards against me.
9
Q. Who owns stocks?
A.Those who can afford it.
Q. Who cares?
A. Only them.
2
@Ian MacFarlane
No, you are wrong. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination but my pension is invested in the stock market. I worked for 30 years putting money away for retirement. No Social Security available to me, just my pension. Stock market fails, my pension and that of millions of others, suffers. Trump’s policies which are not based on sound economic advice or knowledge will be the undoing of this democratic economy.
22
@Ian MacFarlane
So . . . you don't have a 401K or a pension? If you do, your fortunes are tied to the stock market.
10
Ha ha ha ha. The Captains of Industry are showing their hubris by sticking with Trump. I hope you lose all of your money and the market tanks us into a deep recession. You all deserve it.
13
What has been clear to so many for so long—
Trump is, and always was, a terrible businessman and "deal-maker" and has unutterably terrible judgment.
[Surely it's not possible he is the president of the United States.]
29
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=npBPh-CDRyk
The above video, probably of next to zero relevance to this topic, has haunted me since I saw it a few days ago-- It's an uncannily poignant animated rendition of "The Little Match Girl."
Why share it in this context? I don't think I ever saw the psychology of poverty, betrayal & doom presented so sharply, underscoring the true stakes in economic decisions & their moral repercussions, that maybe only a very gifted animator could distill to absolute essentials, at least visually. The prevention and alleviation of poverty must be the overriding economic goal. This may mean creating great wealth for a few, perhaps not. But all pales compared to the priority of attacking poverty.
Trump's policies may be beyond my economic sophistication to grasp, but the context seems to be neoliberalism's (including economic globalization's) corruption, a point on which Trump was elected.
Every honest Democrat knows Bill Clinton & his ilk (including Hillary) bought into the neoliberal snake oil ("I'm very pro-business," declared Clinton with his customary smug grin), eviscerating the working class. We got flooded with cheap Chinese goods, so all could buy cheap at Kmart, even on stagnating wages.
Trump promised to play hardball with China to reverse that trend, was elected, and is now delivering. Is the medicine worse than the disease? Maybe. We could skip the medicine, but if denial/ignoring the (neoliberal-created) disease is the alternative...?
4
working class... middle class. Something needs to change in the system that has, in precisely the context of globalization, the vast majority of wealth to be sucked up by such a tiny percentage. A solution has to start somewhere, and it is going to have terrible shocks.
I'm not defending Trump's trade war vs. China. Only suggesting we are being disingenuous to say economic protectionism is anathema, globalism a pure boon. Almost certainly Trump is takin a very dangerous, heavy-handed approach. But intuitively the dependence on Chinese manufacturing is comparable to a drug addiction you have to overcome even at great pain and staggering costs-- if you truly want to be free of the dependency (the premise of bolstering American industry/manufacturing).
I think the tragedy is that corrupt neoliberal Dems got us into this mess (or at least helped Republicans to such an extent). I can handle suffering, tough medicine. but prefer it administered by a doctor I trust.
Democrats should have taken the lead and challenged China. Instead Trump seized that role. Democrats had better grab this fight back from the Rebublicans and do it properly, with credibility, and necessary sacrfices we can believe in. But we mustn't deny that something drastic had been needed. If Trump's approach is wrong (probably is), Dems must put up a better solution, above all without denial of the underlying problem (which many Dems, Bill Clinton above all) did so much to create. Where is Robert Reich nowadays?
3
@Andrew Comparison of importing goods from China to drug addiction is silly hyperbole.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/82B5044C-2EAF-11E8-8EF2-AD271E51B38B
We imported $538 billion in goods from China in 2018. The largest category by far is computers and electronics. Should we go back to the abacus? Next comes electrical equipment. This doesn’t sound like addiction to me. The fact is that developing countries make stuff cheaper. Most Americans couldn’t afford their current standard of living if these products had to be made here.
1
A market that has toyed with inversion, probably is overvalued, global slowdown ahead, whatever stimulus the tax cut provided worn off, the two leading economies squaring off with each other, planting season upon us, a president that thrives on volcanic chaotic rhetoric and more, what's a jittery investor to do? Will investors watching the drop swoop in at some point looking to gamble on bargains? Tune in this week and the weeks ahead to find out. Get those summer do-dads now before the last un-tariffed ship is unloaded and the Dollar Stores become Dollars Stores.
4
Crime boss thug is out-of-control.
Senator Cotton says my losses are nothing like the sacrifice that our soldiers make. Funny you should bring that up, Mister Senator, because I did "sacrifice" four years of my life when I volunteered for the navy during the Vietnam Era.. Meanwhile your Cadet Bone Spurs sacrificed what, exactly? I recall him saying that avoiding STDs was his "Vietnam."
Is that some kind of sacrifice? Mister Senator, how is it possible that your thought "process" is so convoluted and wrong?
68
What else can our esteemed leader do to move America to the front page?
He is itching for the Dems to try impeaching him and this "Trade War" debacle is certainly a temptress.
Of course if this isn't bad enough, what will he dream up next. A war?
19
The art of the deal!!
3
There's always tomorrow.
Is there any deal Trump won't bungle?
Paris, Iran, the climate, the environment, health care if he could, and now trade and with it the markets and the economy.
34
Mmmmm, economic anxiety. Anxiety is an emotion. Emotions more often than not are "irrational". Does that mean that "markets" are also irrational? In modern economies that based upon conspicuous consumption and not things we really need, I'd argue that most financial transactions are contrary to Milton Freidman's theorems. Yet much of modern economics is premised upon his ideas. Time for some change?
3
Effect of tariffs too distracting? Sounds like it's time for a real distraction.
Iran.
Stay tuned.
35
@Karl Gauss Exactly. So who holed those two tankers at Fujairah ? Betting dimes to dollars it wasn't Iran.....
10
Trump played the stock market with his dad's help as it was reported in the Times by making people believe he would take stakes in Time Inc and I believe some airline, stock would go up, dad would sell his stocks and Trump the next day would recant and the stock would go down. I can guarantee you he is doing the same thing and shorting stocks that are affected by the trade war. If not him, other people in the administration have to be.
71
The Big Short. Wish we (or the Russians?) could see Trump’s stock transactions!
4
@Jonathan
yes
you got it
6
@Jonathan
would not be surprised given how immoral and greedy he is
4
If the negotiations were through TPP would the alignment with the other nations be a more productive path to negotiating this imbalance? We need long term thinking on this or they will roll over us. The best answer is to increase our global competitiveness. Not even on the table.
6
Peter Navarro is trump's advisor. That says a lot. Navarro knows trump has wanted to take this approach with China for the past 40 years. So like a good sycophant he tells trump what trump wants to hear. China has issues but the way to deal with them is thru one of the "institutions" people like Bannon want to get rid of: the World Trade Organization. Trump's real motive is to ingratiate himself with the know-nothings in time for the 2020 elections.
13
This is as good a reason as any for Senate Republicans to finally show Trump the door.
And most defensible, when they are confronted by Trump's angry "base".
19
I'd like to see how his base feels next time they have to go buy a pair of socks at Walmart.
9
@Mia,
Wait 'til they find out their crack cocaine price increased too.
3
It seems like the Chinese, North Koreans, and Iranians are smarter and more clear sited than the 60 million Americans that voted for Trump. Why is that? That is the question that we should all be asking ourselves. Where does this incredible disfunctionalism and alienation from reality come from???
30
@Barry Lane
Right. And after the blight of Trump is finally gone—
We need to address the failure of our schools (and parents and families) to teach rational thinking, critical evaluation, discrimination, discernment.
19
@Barry Lane It comes from watching TV. People have become so caught up in the screen drama, they forget this is reality. They're cast members in The Reality Show Presidency.
7
Barry Lane,
Fox News, or as it should really be called, Trump TV.
5
Every time the Dow Bell rings, an angel has to work an extra year because her 401K keeps tanking.
56
It’s a Wonderful Life if you can afford it.
15
Wall Street kept on believing that Trump would get a trade deal, when he has failed at every negotiation he has attempted. Why they kept on I couldn't fathom. Mnuchin would trot out every Monday on how well it was going, a blatant lie, but the market would go up.
Well, the masters of the universe, are going to learn what most of us already know. Trump will be the worst thing that has happened to us economically, allie-wise, democratically, you name it. He will work his usual con, and skate off more rich than ever, blaming everything on someone else (Obama!, Hillary!).
Our only friends will be Russia and North Korea...
25
Not to worry, everyone. This shouldn't come as a surprise. We can't Make America Great Again without immense personal financial sacrifice so I hope you planned accordingly.
What should we expect now is for the White House to create a diversion to attract our attention elsewhere.
30
@Tom Q . Iran?
14
This is the diversion.
Will Trump roll over for Wall Street?
1
Ultimately we are going to blockade China until they get their heads screwed on straight.
This trade war nonsense is just a prelude to what’s around the corner.
Why do you think the Chinese are building military bases in the South China Sea. They know they are vulnerable to a naval blockade.
If it wasn’t for the USA, China would be a colony of Japan today.
3
Trump won't be winning any trade war with China as China are looking to the long term and are silently getting on with the job of fostering co-operation and relationships with nations who are members of the Belt and Road Initiative. So, in the future China won't need to sell to the USA and will have lots of other nations to sell their product to.
Read some of these articles in NZ media to get an idea of how a superpower and negotiator should act; and how to create goodwill globally. Look at a couple of New Zealand websites with 2019 on them. Do a web search of these words: northland china railway belt and road initiative
31
Tariffs are the trigger. The bullet is what happens when we cannot borrow -- The Republicans' tax bill added to the largest defecit ever. China is buying our treasuries to fund that defecit. Our economy will crash if they simply stop buying
23
@Twin Cities Trump could default on our debt to China.
What could go wrong?
7
Could've just impose a nation-wide sales tax and send the proceeds to farmers. Achieve the same effect while cutting out the middlemen.
8
Oh, the joys of living in a world of highly complex interdependency, populated by individuals who believe that the geographical location of their birth (at that specific moment in space-time?) actually results in the qualitative nature of their lives being superior to anyone else’s.
Solipsism is the best. As long as you believe, everything really can be about you.
26
I’m hoping this November and the following aren’t proclaimed National Amnesia Month. Lest we forget....
13
You have to have a bit of nerve if you expect to survive a crisis like this. The stock market will go up and down, but that is the least of the potential repercussions of trade disruption. Trump is taking a calculated risk, but the upside is still greater than the downside. That’s what leaders do and what Obama was afraid of doing. Do we want to continue our world slide or do we want to put an end to it? Things will only get worse the longer we delay.
4
@Edward: I’m betting that Trump does one of his fastest reversals ever. BTW, how, exactly, is “the upside greater than the downside”? What do the Chinese have to lose, in comparison to the US? Is Trump going to decree that none shall buy Chinese-made goods? What would we buy, then? Taken a look around in the last 20 years? Practically everything is made in China, or everything that’s affordable (until now).
15
@Edward
Yes, but you have put your faith in an incompent grifter, who has surrounded himself with the same.
16
@Edward in Honolulu,
You must be sitting on a load of money that the rest of America doesn't have. Seeing my 401k being wiped out because of Trump's ignorant bravado about trade tariffs is more than unsettling, it's criminal.
I'm sure he and his family and cronies have made a astronomical amount of money today selling short.
10
The stable genius' economic policies are worth about as much as what one steps in on a stable floor.
38
@Paul Presnail
But you must admit, the substance on the stable floor is really good for roses, and other plants. Much more valuable than the Stable Genius' policies, if you can call them that. I expect this is coming from his Incredibly Smart Gut.
Oy.
Guess he enjoys winning while the rest of us see our savings go down the toilet. Well done, stable genius. Can't we put him out to the stables?
35
No one should be surprised! Most of his followers, particularly the farmers, are going to pay a very high price. Is their loyalty to this con man worth their farms, their businesses, their family's survival? Everything Obama did to save the country from financial collapse ignored and every negotiation that was well thought out for months and months were torn up in a matter of weeks as Trump declared every one of them "a bad deal." It's all been just a big game for Trump because it's the only way he knows how to get and keep the attention he so desperately needs.
77
the farmers don't have to worry, because Trump is bailing them out. who are the welfare queens now?
11
@Mia
The farmer bailouts need to be given more news coverage, too--smoke out the complicity and hypocrisy.
1
Trump has been taking credit for economic performance that began under Obama and has continued in large part because Trump abandoned Republican economic orthodoxies. He has maintained stimulus and not worried about deficits. That would have been, and was, anathema to Republicans up until they became bewitched with Trump. He has even turned his back on free trade, though that slap in the face to the GOP may have more dire consequences, at least in the short turn.
17
"Trust me. Believe me. Only I can fix this." Oh, yeah, the fix is in alright...
38
It is Moonday (Lundi) the 13th offering all the proof we should have ever needed that as Shakespeare said "The problem is not in the stars"... it is in ourselves. We are Homo Sapiens and we are too smart by half and can't control our lunacy.
8
I know it’s sophomoric, but I can’t help it. All those Republican donors who give, give, give, are losing their shirt in a market they’ve created.
6
Is America now the world leader as the dumbest country? Why would they elect and still 'follow and fall for' a known scam artist with mental issues? This week DJT is once agains showing he has no understanding about international economics.... nor do his minions assigned to 'negotiate a deal with China'. When the US would not join the PPP, they made it clear that nationalism was the choice to follow. Major mistake.... but it seems your thrice-bankcrupt Tumpian zero-plan-rules are all that matters. He couldn't pass Economics 101 at a 3rd tier college!
Is testosterone on Congress also a thing of the past? Please wake up soon, before the 'Fool on the Hill' creates yet another even more dangerous distraction (e.g., Iran, Venezuela, etc.). Bring brainpower to the White House.... soon!
36
@J. Dickson
Let’s not forget Canada elected a Crack Addict into office in Toronto! It was not easy to get him out of office either, despite well publicized insanity. Populism needs a cure worldwide.
7
@H.A. Hyde1,
And we elected a pathological lying, sociopathic, low IQ, moronic embarrassing president.
At least, a person can overcome and kick their crack addition. Nothing can cure Trump's mental instability.
7
I guess he can't think it through: the tariff will mainly cost us, the general population.
Where did he go to school, again? Wharton? I guess his father paid to get him in.
21
Please Mr. Mueller,resign from the DOJ so you can testify before congress ASAP.The moron in the WH, who called himself a billionaire to get votes from people who what??Thought he'd give them some dough??Not on your life.The faux president is just that.A hollow poseur.
10,000 lies later he has proven he is a complete loser in everyway
Every economist knows that tariff wars are costly and dangerous but bozo thinks he knows better than the pros.We need to expose him for the deeds he has tried to hide before China starts selling their Treasuries.That is why Mr. Mueller is so important.Why anyone would want a habitual liar as president is beyond me so let's go to written proof that this president is unfit.
24
Given the "amazing" and "wonderful" and "bigly" nature of Trump, and his refusal to divest himself, is it not possible that he is goading his broker to short stocks, then he Tweets?
It could be a scam designed to take money away from others and increase his coffers. Why shouldn't the public think any different?
31
Stock profits and losses are recorded in a income tax form. We, the people, need to make sure he is not stealing from us via stock market manipulation.
I've been on to this "insider trading" for over a year now. So obvious, especially to the greed crowd he runs with.
43
lining his pockets through the oligarchs he pays homage to, wake up america!
this is all misdirection anyway so that he can start a war to pump up his bigly ego. he's wanted one from the beginning but standing behind his wife's skirt who's standing behind Putin.
8
I'm thinking of the news last week of his previous con of buying a companies stock, starting a rumor that he would buy the company, and then selling the inflated stock. Again and again. Talking this China deal up and down over the past year sure has caused a lot of movement in the market. If we had any other president, I would not suspect a thing, but this feels like it was taken out of 'Don the Con's Favorite Hustles, Scam 146b.'
34
"Trade wars are easy to win". What stable genius said this?
10
I hope the SEC is paying attention to the people in Trumps contact list & those shorting stock. Smells like a dumb & dumber version of his previous pump & dump takeover rumors from his prior life. In the meanwhile, real people pay the price
35
Just raise the tariffs to 100%
That should get the job done.
2
A former TV game show host with absolutely no experience in international relations trying to solve an economic problem with China that has existed for years and stymied multiple administrations. What could possibly go wrong?
54
If Trump and Putin have a goal of destroying our country, destroying our economy may be a first step. Or perhaps dismantling the structure of our governmental agencies is the first step.
35
I'd like to know if and how Russia benefits from this trade war.
12
@Jennifer, just sitting on the sidelines and laughing up his sleeve, Putin is enjoying every moment. Between his corrupting our election process and the trade war, he couldn’t have asked for more. We must congratulate the Republicans. Actually, if anything, they are anti-Republican.
10
@Jennifer A shot at weakening the U.S. economy and our standing in the world, while the Russians continue to influence our elections is helping Putin's ultimate goal: the collapse of the American empire. And Trump is doing a good job of facilitating that.
10
we do all the fighting and depletion of any good will left so that Putin can takeover as a more powerful force. it's all about resources, we'll become weak and Russia will step in and take over the oil as we've depleted ourselves.
2
Most correct headline:
“World’s Millionaires And Billionaires Are Miffed About Something”
Millionaires and Billionaires live in many countries, and they invest in the world’s various stock markets. Even in the USA, millionaires and billionaires live in states not on the coasts, and they invest broadly.
So, let’s not only pick on coastal elites, as some comments suggest. The world’s wealthiest are the only people capable of causing market swings — both up and down. The rest of us just get taken for a ride.
6
Actually this modest shift of 2.5% suggests the market still thinks someone will cry uncle. The market is only down 5% or so from it recent high in April. Once it gets the idea this not going be resolved quickly you could easily see another 10 to 15% fall.
14
@John 20% is a crash. With the accompanying recession, we will at least be rid of Trump. Good timing.
7
@Doug Lowenthal
If the market fell by 20% there would not necessarily be a recession but the boy Trump would definitely be panicking which is why ultimately I personally believe the Chinese are fairly comfortable with the idea that HE will be the one to cry uncle first. The fall in the Yuan today has already put a small ding in his tariffs but NOT theirs!!
2
I hope Carl Icahn isn't making any money on the turbulence in the markets.
tRump tried to be an amateur corporate raider probably because he saw Icahn and others leverage, and the liquidate some legacy American corporations into oblivion.
The president doesn't appear to have the fundamental discipline, yet alone the patience, to try to comprehend the how the economy and markets work, other than acquiring debt and getting bailed out of it.
He is reliant on financiers and CNBC talking heads, like Kudlow and Mnuchin, who's credentials are tainted - but are now in charge of testing the waters, like Captain Ahab looking to settle the score with China.
In the Department of Irony and Sarcasm, this might fall into a scenario of a "mouse in a tent full of elephants" panic.
12
Putin probably made a killing knowing the market would fall like this in advance.
23
I'm so glad to see the market drop. Can't wait for a further correction.
7
Put your money (401k) on the craps table and let Donald Trump roll his loaded tweeter dice.
18
It took Bush 6 years to tank the Clinton economy. Make no mistake this is the OBAMA recovery. It looks like Trump will beat Bush disaster by several years. "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior". Trump's 6 bankruptcies, business fraud (Trump University), billion dollar tax losses, and $2 trillion added to our national debt. Any predictions for our country's economy under Trump.
223
The stock market is not the economy, yet even still it is up dramatically since Obama's horrific taxation and regulation policies were undone. Total US debt doubled under Obama (more debt accumulated in 8 years than in the prior 200 years combined) an unprecedented calamity that will take generations to undo, assuming it is ever undone.
@Fred Rick
It's a major barometer of the economy. The debt doubled because Obama inherited the worst crash since the 30's and tax receipts collapsed and expenditures increased. The largest deficit in US history was in FY2008/9 (Bush's last) when the deficit hit 1.4 trillion or about 10% of GDP. When he left office it was down to about 2.7% of GDP. I think you need an Economics 101 class or how about 8th grade math?
82
@Fred Rick
For 6 of the 8 years of his administration the Republican Congress was in control of taxes and regulation. Remember their dire warnings of deficits?
At the current deficit and rate of its growth Trump and Republicans will double Obama's in less than half that time. That will take generations to undo.
66
Trump doesn’t have a secret deal to build a luxury tower in China; then dirty money are only from Russians oligarchs having ties with Putin.
So he eventually doesn’t care to study a different approach to the problem, less damaging for our economy and mainly for the average Joe.
1
The self-described "stable genius" is destabilizing the stock market. One may be rest-assured that the "genius" is delivering on the goods for himself and alternatively attempting to destroy his (mis)perceived enemies/competitors if not the US economy itself. Looks like "Art of the Deal" part two...
18
It sure is humbling to watch a financial genius at work. Unfortunately, Trumps genius (and history) for finance is geared towards ruination rather than enrichment.
26
This is going to go on for awhile. American consumers will pay the price. Trump will throw more money at the farmers, he will brag, and in the long run we will not be better off. I don’t trust Trump. Too bad so many do.
29
I predict that President Trump will cave in soon to the Chinese, seeing the stock market slide. After caving in, he will come out and claim that he has negotiated the world's best trade deal and he is in love with President Xi of China just like he did after his meetings with the North Korean leader. We have a serious problem with China on trade and intellectual property. Unfortunately, President Trump does not have the strategic vision or plan to solve it. He is all bluster. The only thing that matters to him is the approval of his base and the feeding of his narcissistic ego.
55
Can't believe business executives are just now figuring out that Trump is a stubborn imbecile. I put a significant part of my portfolio in gold three months ago based on the belief that Trump would tank the economy. I think it is a good bet. We'll see.
29
It gets even worse: You are surrounded by Americans who will support and vote for him no matter what he does.
55
Not to worry Trump will fix it!
3
@TMS
Only He can fix it!
Trump’s absurd trade war will hurt the economy, American prosperity, stock prices, and the average American. It will not lead to any real change positively in our complex economic relationship with China.
He is a bungling amateur with no understanding of how the global economy works.
It would have been preferable to have joined TPP trade agreement and to work with our allies through the WTO to negotiate together from strength over troublesome Chinese trade practices. But that would have required patience, intellectual acuity, and nuance and knowledge- qualities lacking in Trump and his woeful administration. He prefers superficial bluster over real substance and his tariff wars will accomplish nothing but fuel the right wing rhetoric that appeals to his base , who will be harmed by the inflationary price increases as a result of this policy.
30
I thought trade wars were easy to win?!
13
I hope somebody is taking a good look at Trump family stock trades. They have the best inside information there is.
SEC?
You might want to look at Hannity and Giuliani as well. Anybody in Trump's circle of trust should be on a permanent SEC watchlist.
80
@Ralph Averill
This can't be said enough.
4
At least Trump is consistent. Everything he touches dies.
71
Hmmmm.... will the Donald take credit for this just like he took credit for the good economy? Somehow I don't think so!
10
The real problem with the tariff is that once the prices go up they won't come down. American washers and dryers are now $90 more than what they were a few months ago. The question is: Is Trump has making $$$ this. I'd lay you pre-tariff money on this.
18
I just wish we had an intelligent President. China needs to be brought under control. I doubt Trump is the one to do it. He will bring the world economy down just like he brought his own fortune down.
28
Trumpism:
Where there are problems and challenges, turn it into a crisis and claim victory.
Trade deficit. Intellectual property thievery.
Two issues to tackle but not with a jack hammer.
Asylum seekers. An opportunity to help humans is turned into a reason for prison camps and returning innocents to deadly environments.
Climate change. A chance to be an historic leader is twisted by denial and aid to fossil fuel companies...which cause the problem.
Trumpism: make it worse and blame someone else. Management by manufacturing a crisis. One after the other.
115
@Bob Bruce Anderson: One of the more accurate and succinct observations about the Catastrophic President I've read.
30
@Bob Bruce Anderson, you've just summarized and articulated the Republican Political Playbook going back to the Reagan administration and beyond:
Step 1: Create a problem, either by exacerbating an existing issue or by manufacturing an imagined crisis out of whole cloth.
Step 2: Find a way to help your biggest donors and financiers profit from the problem.
Step 3: Criticize the Democrats/government/scientific community for failing to fix the problem you've created, and use this "failure" as evidence that they can't be trusted.
Step 4: Enrich yourself, your donors, and your financiers, all under the guise of developing "market-based solutions" to the problem you've just created, while blocking any attempt to actually research the problem or examine it critically and objectively.
Step 5 (Optional): Use this new problem to distract attention away from other problems you've created.
42
Again, China can control the social, financial and political fallout much better than Trump. The reason no other American political leader had started a trade war with China wasn't that they hadn't thought of it, it's that they had thought it through. China can control the perceptions game much better than the U.S. Also, elections in America make the long game much more tenuous. Trump has ramped up a contest that will outlast him. This may very well affect his legacy as much or more than collusion.
23
This is a Trump Special. His family and friends are making a ton on each of these Trump-directed mini-market crashes. Farmers, 401k retirees being sold down river, in my opinion.
100
Congratulations! If you have a pension, IRA, or 401(k) you are now economic cannon fodder in the trade war with China.
108
The alternative was to let China continue it's economic and other abuses of the US and the World. Is that your solution? Most people were always taught to stand up to the type of bullying China has doing to the US all these years. However, before Trump no other President did stand up to them.
2
@NYChap, Don't get me wrong, has China stolen intellectual property? Yep. Stolen state secrets? Yep. Did a vast majority of companies, who wanted access to an emerging economy with the world's largest middle class, give their secrets away to China for access to stated economy? Yep. This wasn't just China's doing it was American companies that were willing participants as well.
24
@NYChap
Don't be silly. Trump isn't standing up to anyone. He's probably shorting the market and making a ton of money. One of these days .. sooner than later ... Trump supporters need to need to wake up.
26
@NYChap
Apples vs. Oranges. If China is found to have stolen intellectual property and other secrets, prove it, and then sue them or extract a punishment to fit the crime. Why self-destruct and harm our own economy and citizens with tariffs. Problem is, the Dealer-in-Chief doesn't know how to really 'deal' - he just reacts emotionally and reaches for one of the three actions in his arsenal: sanctions; tariffs; or insults. It's getting tedious and annoying, and harmful to our well-being. He should be stopped.
7
The only benefit that will come from having the failed business man rigging the election will be to people who will be able to hold onto their jobs and have high enough income to invest while the economy tanks. Hopefully that will be me, especially seems how the money I put into my retirement plan will have a few decades to grow as the economy struggles to recover from this administration.
8
I've had this crazy notion that all along it was the CEOs and boards of directors in the nation's ivory towers-- republicans, one and all --that voted to move all that production to China and take all those extra profits.
Why aren't they in the spotlight? Why have they gotten a pass?
37
@Rick You are correct about the CEOs and Boards of Directors that ran off with American manufacturing and other jobs. They have been laughing all the way to their off-shore bank accounts and McMansions while they have shafted Americans who actually work for a living. Remember it was the Congress--both parties, but especially the GOP--that gave all those sweet tax breaks and other incentives to businesses so they could move to China to realize their dreams of paying lousy wages and minimal or no benefits to people in factories with no safety regulations, and no environmental or other pesky regulations.
Why have they been given a pass? The right-wing and centrist media is either too bone-headed to figure it out, is in their pocket, or unwilling to engage in such reporting for fear of being labelled "socialist." Congressmen and women line their pockets with cash for what is colloquially termed "access," aka a bribe without an explicit quid pro quo for voting for a bill. The hypocrisy of these grifters and of another major element in Trump's base--evangelical Protestants--is breathtaking.
Finally, your questions point to the dilemma and tragedy that Trump and Trumpism have brought to this nation--the outright celebration of ignorance, bigotry, greed, deception, narcissism, and duplicity. These are not the "better angels of our nature," as Lincoln termed it in his First Inaugural Address; they are the demons of our destiny--unless we the people can overcome them.
5
"A whopping 84 percent of all stocks owned by Americans belong to the wealthiest 10 percent of households. And that includes everyone’s stakes in pension plans, 401(k)’s and individual retirement accounts, as well as trust funds, mutual funds and college savings programs like 529 plans.
“For the vast majority of Americans, fluctuations in the stock market have relatively little effect on their wealth, or well-being, for that matter,” said Edward N. Wolff, an economist at New York University."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/08/business/economy/stocks-economy.html
7
@Melissa The majority of Americans don’t have retirement savings. Are they better off? What’s your point?
5
@Doug Lowenthal Trump's self-credit for the stock market increases and his blind-eye to the stock market drops don't matter a hoot to the vast majority of Americans. They live paycheck to paycheck and have nothing to fall back on.
2
It seems to me the major benefactors of the tariffs are the federal government who reaps the 25% increase and the Chinese government who reaps from tariffs on their end.
I wonder what his family did in the market before his tweet? Maybe sold? Maybe they buy just before a positive tweet? If you look back into Trump's past you will see that he did exactly this and was indicted for it. As President his tweets are even more powerful. Perhaps someone should be looking into this!
Maybe the president will use the money gained for his border wall...........as he certainly won’t use it for something important....
23
So much for “Trade wars are good, and easy to win”
27
You know, this just slays me. Trump is playing insiders trading while gambling with the American economy while the stock market tanks while keeping all Congressional oversight at bay, and, moreover, it also looks like he's planning to get himself a war with Iran going too. Things are also looking like the love has gone out of his relationship with North Korea’s Kim Jong-un as rocket testing resumes. The self-proclaimed great businessman who lost more money than any other businessman in the U.S. in 10 years and who enjoys bragging about his mental brilliance is juggling a lot of treacherous balls in the air. Whatever could go wrong?
199
@Wally Wolf Recall that Trump called himself a "stable genius?" Trainers all over the country should be insulted.
8
If you all will hang on just a minute while I put on my 'Shocked' face. Trump's approach to this, like pretty much everything, is far too blunt and sloppy, and the American people get to pay the price. Again. So much winning.
28
My sober, considered response to this is: LOL
6
Trumponomics: incinerate economies worldwide—starting right here at home. All that’s missing in his so-called strategy is a GoT-style Fire-breathing dragon. #TrumpWorstPresidentEver
23
@Jackson
Trump was never a true president ever...
2
Larry Kudlow had to admit it on Fox. U.S. businesses, U.S. taxpayers will feel pain. Farmers hurting, small businesses and startups going out of business, big businesses passing along the tariffs. We will suffer much more than the Chinese. Why? Because they are more shrewd than Trump and his executive branch and they'll learn faster when they make a misjudgment.
It's like global warming. Things keep getting worse and uncertain and more extreme and Trump marches on.
If Trump left office tomorrow, the best we could hope for is that things would stop getting worse so quickly. But no turnarounds, just damage control.
45
Donald Trump: failed businessman has done it again: failed.
And while we’re at it, how about those tax returns? I had to pay additional tax, the first time. God help this on fixed incomes who were relying on their return to pay their property taxes. But you can be sure that the fat cats like Murdoch and the Kochs got tons of money back. After all, it was designed for them.
87
donnie said that China will pay for these tariffs just like he PROMISED Mexico will pay for the wall.
His supporters, still stand by him even when they will lose everything.
We will all pay, but many of us will laugh out loud when his supporters really suffer the consequences of their vote.
23
We the United States are in a great position.
The Year to Date Dow Jones is up 8.24%
May 13 2018; 23,346
May 13 2019; 25,272(roughly)
25,272 - 23,346 =1,926
(1,926/23,346)*100= 8.2498%
January 27th 2017 to Date is up 25%
25,272 - 20,093 =5,179
(5,179/20,093)*100= 25.7751%
No country can handle our Economic Bombs in a Trade War.
The most adaptable species in the universe is a United States businessman.
There are plenty of poor people all around the world waiting to take China's jobs. Specifically in Indochina. And apparently the Chinese are not good neighbors. Building bases in international waters, taking over their neighbors fishing grounds. Fighting with India. The one belt one road global domination was there a fatal mistake. They alienated all of their local neighbors. Many of the southern Asian countries view China as a greatest threat. Except for all the countries China has successfully created a regime change. Supply line shift very quickly. The only true resource China has is precious metals. Then again Afghanistan and Pakistan has over 3 trillion dollars worth of precious metals.
1
The final paragraph could just as easily be applied to the US. Remember, the concerns of our country are deeper than that of just the stock market and business.
13
@akeptwatchoverthewatcher
Economists and investors don't seem to share your confidence in the administration's strategy.
20
@akeptwatchoverthewatcher Extremely long-winded way of saying, 'Yes, but . . . ."
10
Add a pinch of trade war to a seriously over priced market and you have the makings of the zombie apocalypse.
15
Of course stocks fell. We don't need trade war with China. Perhaps a stock market crash will wake up the "donors."
9
Never mind about what happens to the rest of us. Everything he does is calculated with re-election in mind. It's the only thing that will keep him out of jail.
66
@Mikeyz " Everything he does is calculated with re-election in mind." NOT EXACTLY. MOST OF WHAT HE DOES IS CALCULATED WITH HIS OWN (AND HIS FRIENDS') BOTTOM LINE IN MIND.
11
The coastal elite are worried about a 2% drop after the 8000 point increase Trump has delivered since the day he won the election?
Or are the just being over-dramatic?
4
Not just the coastal elites but every single American holding stocks. Those include farmers in the heartland, blue collar workers with pensions, employees with profit sharing plans, and most every CEO from coast to coast as their compensation packages are tied very closely to stock performance.
22
@Dr. John
Right? And the American farmer is worried about not going belly up in Trump’s economy. All of these people need to get over themselves. Right, Dr?
17
@Dr. John That increase is dwarfed by the increase from the date of Obama's election to the 2016 election: it more than doubled.
23
Correct Head Line
US Stocks Fall as China’s Response to U.S. Tariffs Stokes Economic Anxiety
But that is not the issue in a trade war. The decisive question is WHICH stock marked , the US or the PRC is hit harder?
From the South China Morning Post
"China’s plummeting stocks raise fears that market is early casualty in trade war"
On April16th the Shanghai stock market index was at 3253 . Today it was at 2903
Down by more then 10% since April
Trade War with China - excellent news, bring it on. We have been losing this war for the past several decades and with out fair trade and trade protection, we will continue to lose it until the average American standard of living matches India or China. You lost money in the stock market betting against US workers best interests? Well isn't that just too bad for you.
8
@annon Can't wait to pay $300 for my next pair of sneakers! MAGA
29
@matt
Dont worry the child that makes your shoes will finally get a break during of his 16 hour job at a sweatshop
3
Why do the rest of the world markets need to follow the US. This is a huge export opportunity for Europe. Sheep all ...
3
No tweets from Trump on so much winning, when the stock market falls due to his ineptitude and ignorance?
68
I am glad our economic future is being handled by a “business genius” who’s consistently in the Red
127
@Art Perry. That’s RUSSIAN RED.
3
Not a fan of the Trump style, affect, tweets, or of many policies, but cheap Chinese production has been an environmental disaster that's exacerbated mindless American consumerism and had a demoralizing effect on our own sense of industry and capability. Couple that with the disinterested and condescending response from coastal Democrats ("Your factory jobs are never coming back"), and Trump is onto something. Maybe something disruptive and uncomfortable, but he's onto something real.
7
@Blair how about failing?
7
Tell us, one and all, have those jobs come back? Will they come back? Should the economy evolve and progress or regress? Remember, it was George Bush who was intent on moving America from a nation of production to our current state. He hardly qualified as a “coastal” elite, Democrat, etc. back in his day but today’s Republican Party have him looking more like LBJ than Trump.
9
@Blair
The administration is onto something with ral consequences. At this point we can only hope for an outcome which doesn't impair the economy. The administrations track record on successful and beneficial outcomes is less the 50%.
2
Trump loves that he can move the global markets with a tweet. I can only hope that this keeps him distracted from trying to start another Middle East war.
16
Confirmation bias is seductive and rarely supported by data. If they choose, NYT reporters and editors can reply to the assertion that NYT covers only market downturns. A simple search of NYT for "S&P high" yields 9 NYT stories on business or front pages from March 15th 2019 to today. Replace high with low yields 10 stories in the same time window. Measuring total column inches to each subject is left to someone else.
1
@Rob D
Enough sir. Address the issues raised in the article, point by point, if needed. If you can't do so, perhaps fox "news" is more apt for your reading pleasure.
19
I wonder if Trump laughs looking at this.
9
Trump never reads anything he only listens to Fox News
18
Only Putin is laughing as this is what he wants from his ill informed counterpart.
12
@Roland Berger I'm not sure that Trump ever laughs.
6
I wonder how much money the Trump family is making on this drop in the market. Because Trump certainly engineered it.
152
@Duane McPherson
He can move the markets with a tweet and then move them back again when he's ready. It's like a magic wand sprinkling fairly over Trump and Company. All that legal stuff is just something to brush off just like he always has.
14
Just when I was starting to believe that the market could sustain continued long term growth, and now this. All of the current market drop is from Trump's tweets trying to show how smart he is with deal making. I have to believe that this is the beginning of the end. Either that, or Trump is going to accept a trade agreement that will put America in a disadvantaged position. We now have 2 weeks to make a deal, and the clock is ticking. If we can't hammer out an agreement in that timeframe we may be in this trade agreement for the long term. Maybe this will be Trump's new campaign banner: Tariff's are easy to win, trust me.
24
Trump’s new book: “The Art of No Deal and I Couldn’t Care Less How Affected You Are By It.” Somehow, I don’t see it becoming a bestseller.
90
@Pietro Allar,
And, this is coming from someone who no doubt benefited from decades of profits from Wall Street. Up to now, you've raked in the money while those of us in manufacturing saw our jobs move overseas. Now, you're reaping some of what you sowed.
As much as I don't like all of his methods, Trump's team is working towards a painful goal. They had a deal and the Chinese refused to sign. They liked the deal of verbal agreements they quickly violated while American politicians conned voters into thinking they won concessions from the Chinese: sounds like Obama and Bush to me.
@Pietro Allar
nope..but we'll all be affected by it..maybe the movie will end better
7
@Rocketscientist not
First off how do you know whether Pietro Allar benefited from stock market advances? Secondly if he did why would that mean he had to lose later? Is investing in stocks a bad thing that he should have to pay later for? And lastly how does this sound like Obama or Bush?
16
I wonder if Trump EVER thinks of soon-to-be retirees whose 401K is affected. Yes, the market rises and falls. Yes retirees should invest wisely and we have. But, even with that, we have lost quite a bit. It’s very stressful to watch the market react to Trump’s idiotic “wars” with other countries. What’s going to happen if Trump starts a ground war? And, master of distraction that he is, don’t think he wouldn’t do it if impeachment is in his future. Oh what this guy has done to our nervous systems. He is a despicable man who loves chaos and upset. He loves playing at Dictator. It’s what fuels him.
271
@Kathryn The market reacts to expectations about the real economy. If you intentionally throw a fire bomb at it, the market is going to tank.
33
if your soon to be retired your 401k should be in government bonds. stocks are very risky.
17
@Kathryn "I wonder if Trump EVER thinks of soon-to-be retirees whose 401K is affected." Do you think that Trump ever thinks of anyone besides himself?
59
This is so pathetic. We call this the market?
Every time Trump opens his mouth or twits something, the stock market reacts up or down? What kind of market is this? And this market supposedly represents the global economy? This is beyond ridiculous. What a world we live in...
24
@D You’re talking about volatility, which Trump has increased. The market rose steadily in 2017 but has been flat since the beginning of 2018.
10
It was just a matter of time until Trump would start to wreck the economy.
87
My only surprise about Trump wreaking havoc on our economy is how long it took. I assumed his protectionist policies would have tanked the market sooner. I underestimated the allure of unfair tax cuts and deregulation, to the money changers.
10
@Just Curious
The Obama appointments and administration left the economy in fairly good shape, moving up gradually, keeping risks within reason.
Trump has now controlled appointments for 3 years. The economy has risen sharply under his administration - growing over 3% per cent. It is long past time for a "correction."
Overheated economies proceed Great Recessions and a really overheated economy and rapidly rising stock market preceded the Great Depression.
It took 10 years, many lives, and a great president who made great appointments to regulate the stock market, and World War 2 to prime investment and innovation, to recoer from the Great Depression.
Will we be able to recover from the Great Trumptation? The jury is out. Most people don't even recognize the seriousnesss of the financial crimes yet.
Needless to say, the recovery will be hampered by the many Merry Trumpsters shorted the current market befoe it began its beleagured (and well planned) deline.
Whatever happens, Trump will win in the short run. He will take credit for any success, and blame any failure on the Democrats. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer always seem to be two or three steps behind. Savvy voters are exasperated at gullible Americans.
Tom Perez, DCCC head, is clueless about how to cut the field of eager Democratic presidential hopefuls to funnel limited resources to the strongest contender. Listening to 24 hopefuls talk for 5 minutes each during two initial "debates" is a stupid, cruel joke.
2
Anybody out there still believe that, according to trump, trade wars are easy to win?
38
@JTW
Is there anyone out there who still thinks Donald Trump has any idea what he is doing?
24
If I needed to make a choice between a manufactured tariff war or a manufactured military war, with, let's say Iran, I'd choose the tariff. Sadly, this I see as my options now. Deflection in this administration can be deadly.
19
I sure hope the SEC is looking into Trump, his family, and the rest of the administration for insider trading and short sells on stocks. I would not be surprised if they are all making a lot of illegal money right now.
351
@Raydeohed
Dream on. The SEC was one of the first things that the Kishners/Trumps defanged and attempted to destroy completely. Republican appointees had already paved the way to irrelevance...
34
If you’re following, you know the facts. The market has fallen precipitously five times in the last six months. Each time it has fully recovered. The declines are front page news. The recoveries are buried in the business section. This is game-playing designed to convince you that things are worse than they are. Shame, shame, shame.
7
@michjas Yeah, I've noticed this is how the NYT spins it.
The entire run up is never covered. The downturn for a few days is front page news. It makes people tune in and worried about their money, then get angry at Trump. Maybe we can get another 'opinion' from Krugmen who has been blatantly wrong about this market, too.
1
@michjas Volatility is not healthy sign for the economy either. It is expected that the economy will recover at every downturn; it's true for every economic decline in history and will continue to be true in the future. But if their is dramatic downturn five times in the past six months, then people with a shorter term focus on the economy should be worried.
8
@Scott
Seems almost every day a conservative commentator opines that Krugmen [sic] is wrong about "this" market.
The only prediction I could find of his was a 2016 comment that Trump was going to tank the market. I couldn't find any date in that prediction.
it took Bush 7 years to go from surplus to tanking the world economy.
Trump officially took office slightly over 2 years ago.
Do you have any evidence that Krugman provided a specific date as to when Trump would tank the market?
If not, then your comment is incorrect.
10
S&P500 tumbles more than 2% causing anxiety. Please . S&P500 up more than 30% causing euphoria. I suppose it all relative.
2
Markets have rebounded because corporations are purchasing the stocks to enrich themselves
20
@For everyone The S&P is 0.8% higher today than it was on Jan 1, 2018. This is not an economic miracle, except for the extremely deluded.
7
Not a Trump fan but the stocks will rebound eventually. Its typical human knee jerk reaction. Unless of course this war lasts through the summer. Then worry.
3
@I have had it
Volatility that lasts months on end is not a knee jerk reaction
5
What can you expect from an economic imbecile who has no idea how tariffs work?
255
@Martin Berliner
considering it was an economic tactic that's been debunked since the late 19th century, and any high school macro-econ or AP history student could tell you it was a stupid idea....
3
@Martin Berliner
Trump is not starting a trade war because he thinks it is good for the USA or We the People. The welfare of We the People never enters his calculations. He manipulates the media and he manipulates his white supremacist base with one goal in mind, making himself richer and more powerful. Everything he says and does is all about Trump. That fact is proven by everything he says and does every day, including talking the raise off those that attack our elections while he accuses our defenders of treason.
Those that think Trump is incompetent are using a different yardstick than Trump. He doesn't care about your definition of competence. Trump's definition of competence (do whatever woeks to accrue more wealth and power) made him President of the USA.
He's not going to change and start acting like a president.
Trump is not incompetent. He is a wanna be dictator doing ALL of the things wanna be dictators too, and doing it well. This includes abusing emergency powers. It's not about the wall. It's about calling am emergency to cancel elections and suspend the Constitution.
These kinds of comments that assume Trump cares about the definition of the word president that is in Article II of the Constitution just shows that you are falling for Trump's con.
Stop misunderestimating Trump.
Does he know the price of his tweets?
15
We know this much - Trump excels at losing other people's money.
He perfected it in the 90s, it was all for "sport".
279
Journalists: Please investigate which "friends of Trump" are shorting and buying stock as Trump plays the only game he knows, the stock market. Trump's only successful ventures were created by this very unethical game of causing the markets to rise and fall. As you reported, he falsely showed interest in buying companies whose stock rose and fell as a result, then backed off with the profits from his stock purchases. In his position as leader of the "free world" he has the god-like power to unleash his worship the almighty dollar, our country's true religion.
127
Correction was long over due and provides an ample time to buy now that some stocks and options are returning back from the moon.
2
@Nature Voter A self-inflicted correction is never overdue. Intentionally damaging the economy should be impeachable.
44
You know the principle but not the facts. A correction is a 10% drop. We are nowhere near that. I wouldn’t buy on a correction now because there hasn’t been a correction.
4
@Doug Lowenthal - how about starting a "phony" war with Iran? Shouldn't that be impeachable?
1
To paraphrase a Vietnam era phrase, "We had to destroy the economy in order to save it." The master of fear has hit that nerve in the tariff war with China and the investment community has reacted. Unless there's a deal by No Deal Donald the economic shock will only increase as consumers, corporations and farmers pay the price and feel the "pain" as Economic Adviser, Larry Kudlow said.. That may be what it takes to kill the bull market--a rampaging bull in The White House.
14
So much for trump's "wonderful" stock market.
Bigmouth strikes again. And WE pay for it.
Just like we pay the actual cost of those tariffs trump WRONGLY claims that China is 'paying'.
#Stupid
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Most of his base don’t care what the stock market does, compared to being able to buy cheaper chines-made goods at outlets like Walmart. So how long before he starts blaming higher Walmart prices on Hillary? Two weeks, tops.
47
Yeah, brilliant businessman, right? Starting trade wars where none need to exist, that are part of no strategy whatsoever.
32
Frankly, the real news - the real shock - is that the markets are still as high as they are.
It's a well-worn cliche that investors hate uncertainty, and yet we've had nothing but uncertainty for the past 2+ years.
18
@Chris
Markets are driven by earnings. Last year they were outstanding because of the tax cut and general business conditions, and they are still pretty good. The market is falling because of the anticipated impact on earnings.
12
@Chris And the result has been high volatility. Otherwise, when the economy grows, the market grows. Trump’s trade war is going to slow the economy.
13
Trump is hardly paying attention to tariffs, except to distract the media from the Mueller report and his other problems. These new tariffs will drive up inflation, as American producers raise their prices up to just below 25% where they will still be cheaper than Chinese imports.
Then the feds will react to the tariff-caused inflation and raise interest rates, which will in turn discourage borrowing, and soon a new recession will hit- hopefully just in time for 2020 elections.
14
I wish someone would do a accurate assessment of how many actual dollars are American citizens and American businesses paying into the US treasury as these tariffs are collected.
There must be billions pouring in to Trump's coffers, a backdoor tax, off budget, paid out of the shrinking incomes of American businesses.
And now, China is imposing more tariffs on our dwindling exports in retaliation.
What is the cost - the true, out of pocket, today cost - on American small and mid-size businesses?
This highly optional choice that Trump is irresponsibly making is killing us.
16
My 401k is winning so much I’m getting sick of it!
15
@Michael Fisher Care to share with the majority?
1
He is destroying the economy, not a surprise at all. Watch as it drops and drops and drops...The guy who brags about jobs is destroying the economy.
Are you watching your pensions disappear, you foolish maga hat wearers? It won't be long.
There is one thing he has always been GREAT at - that is bankruptcy - and he is now destroying the economy.
I do not think this racist con artist will be reelected in 2020.
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Maybe during their 90- minute phone conversation last week Trump got orders from Putin to complete his destruction of the U.S. by trashing the only thing left to trash: the economy.
When are Congressional Republicans going to finally break with this incompetent moron? What has to happen?
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@L - Why would they want to? They are gutting social services as we speak, they are on their way to overturning Roe v. Wade, they have gotten their judges, their tax break, and everything else except a visit from Santa.
30
tom harrison,
When the Republicans corporate donors turn on them they may get religion.
14
This article, soooo typical of the NYT! Nary a word these past few months with the Dow Jones making record highs almost daily, thanks in great part to Pres Trump’s tax cuts and trade policies, but as soon as there is a turnaround, it becomes front page news....and of course now it’s all Trump’s fault for being tough with China.
3
@Jared Byrne What trade policies?
17
@Jared Byrne An economy growing on borrowed money is a miracle in whose world? The DOW Jones has not been making record highs daily. It’s down from a high at the beginning of 2018 and has been flat ever since:
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/djia/charts
Deluded.
19
@Jared Byrne do you mean the record highs last year that fell to a negative gain by the end of December? What record highs?
8
One can make an argument for a forceful reshaping of our trade position with China, But be honest about it. When the President proclaims 'trade Wars are easy" He lies about the hardships that will incur from going to the wall with China. When he lies to the American people by trying to portray the revenue from the tariff's as coming from China when he knows that they are coming directly out of the pockets of Americans he once again is attempting to con the American people.He has tried the well worn Trump Tactic of saying"an agreement is coming in weeks" and it worked in conning the markets over the summer but that chicken has come back to roost on his watch. If you are going to go through with this plan be honest and quit lying to the people. Alas I think the lies will continue.
14
So, because of Trump's policy, Americans are paying an extra 25 percent on Chinese imports and losing huge amounts from retirement accounts.
Are we there yet?
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@Panthiest
No, we’re not and that’s the scary part.
20
@Panthiest
When will Republicans get tired of "winning?"
20
I am winning all the time these days
1. We tamed Iran
2. We tamed North Korea
3. We built the wall
4. We tamed China
5. We engineered a coup in Venezuela
I just have to vote cause I got tired of winning.
21
@SridharC,
6. Got out of NATO
7. Replaced NAFTA
11
Jesus is still bullish on President Trump. Right, Mr. Pence. Uh, right? Well, maybe, Mitch, you need to pass a law lifting the $3,000 cap on capital loss deduction. This might really impact rich Republican donors and, we can't have that can we, Lindsey?
21
Maybe if enough wealthy people begin to lose money in the stock market, they will finally have had enough and pull the strings to orchestrate Caligulas exit.
14
@Fausto Alarcón - I am sure they are selling short and making a ton of cash.
9
EVERYTHING "tech" and clothing can be moved to India as the hub and dump China in toto
@james graystoke ...and three months later impose tariffs on India because the moron in the WH doesn't understand the concept and consequences of tariffs.
12
Having Trump handle the tariff war is like selecting Dick Cheney to go hunting with.
390
Good one.
5
@Michael Kelly
Haha, that brought a smile to my miserable morning:)
2
We’re winning, right?
10
Is this the winning part? I am confused.
24
The chickens are coming home to roost.
7
Trump is now saying that he will make farmers whole. I appreciate their plight, but this sounds like a government-funded Trump campaign contribution.
People are impacted by his boneheaded moves in much more than just farming.
127
@Jack
Make them whole. Like, as in handouts? Isn't that socialism?
8
Another transfer of wealth from Blue States to Red States.
Looks like another campaign promise being fulfilled: between the enormously rising national debt, the sinking stock market, rising prices for all we import from China, Mexico and Canada, and the prospect of Trump’s support of cancelling the ACA.....Trump IS running our country just like his businesses. Think he’s looking to add national bankruptcy to his own 6 bankruptcies?
417
All part of the plan. @Susan
29
@Susan
Don't think that Trump didn't profit by bankrupting his companies. A casino can't lose money unless the CEO steals it.
And don't think that Trump telling the IRS that he was losing money means that it was true.
5
Hey - we have an entire political party that is also complicit in this debacle. Let's not forget.
591
@Michelle Teas
The Republicans in Congress can all be described as sniveling cowards. There’s not a decent man or woman in the lot of them. Lindsey Graham especially stands out as a complete turncoat and sellout to Trump. It’s like Trump has a photo of him and a duck doing something illegal. John McCain must be turning over in his grave. Vote them all out if you want to save our democracy.
60
@Michelle Teas
Yes. Easy to blame Trump but he gained office with the support of the Republican establishment. Agreed. Let's not forget.
12
The Trump tariffs are a matter of national defense for the United States. Our nation has become dangerously dependent upon a single nation for the things that we need, for our economic survival. If we don't diversify our supplier base, China will soon have the ability to dictate to us, its terms. For once, the United States has a leader that cares about the American people, rather than big business selling the country out.
1
@Elliott Contradiction in terms as Trump gave big business a tax cut and they probably can expand their overseas businesses in China.The consumer pays the tariffs as tariffs are an indirect taxation.
44
@Elliott I assume you're joking, although I'm afraid you're not.
18
@Elliott Every one seems to be forgetting the amount of "US paper" the Chinese hold. Trade wars will do nothing but bankrupt us like Trump bankrupted his many business ventures.
19
I wonder how all this is going to affect importers health as stress is a killer. The wealthy, like Trump, can absorb it and hold out for the long run but not citizen joe bloggs whose also an importer and never gets a mention.
If it aint broke don't fix it; I think Trump is just looking for a distraction away from government debt and another way to raise taxes by indirect taxation on the consumer who is the ordinary average USA citizen and not a billionaire. Tax decreases for the very wealthy and tariff - indirect tax increases for citizen joe bloggs.
11
POTUS has already proven he can lose at least a billion dollars on his own. Think how much he can do for your portfolio! Does anyone really think there's a method to this administration's madness, especially in terms of global economics? Well, let me check what Mr. Kudlow has to say today...Fasten your seat belts, gonna be a bumpy ride!
295
It's a catch 22 situation.
The stock markets need consumers so stock prices can rise; if more tariffs i.e. indirect taxation on consumer goods then the consumers buy less because the items are too expensive; or they find new places to buy from like online shopping places, such as, Alibaba, ebay, amazon etc etc and they buy direct from China on the global internet, thereby bypassing the USA business that has to absorb the tarrif / indirect taxation that they pass onto the consumers, i.e. USA citizens. so the conclusion is that China gets more business online and the USA owned businesses get less business. This whole scenario has a domino effect on USA citizens and your economy.
10
It’s a good thing I have unqualified confidence in our President. Think about the huge influence he exerts on market ups and downs. In the hands of someone unscrupulous, this power would really worry me. Such a person, even if divested themselves, could inform others about upcoming events, like tariffs and other certain results of trade negotiations. What a scary prospect. Good thing we don’t have to worry about it.
186
@Barry
Yes, you're right. I especially appreciate that the market wasn't manipulated last December to cause prices and profits to drop so that the speculators couldn't dump and then buy back a bunch of stock at bargain prices just in time for all the January gains.
trump and his team are too honest and careful to let that happen.
It's lovely here in Wonderland.
58
Yes. Let’s keep an eye on trump and kushner family investments.
40
@Barry At least it's clear that you're being facetious, unlike the commenter Elliott in Pittsburgh.
20
Overheard in Beijing: "Since we export $300 Billion to the US and we only allow $75 Billion of their goods here, won't the tariffs hurt us more?"
"Yes, hurt in the short term, but the US Press and Congress is at war with the US President and will convince the US citizens to complain. Besides, they are working to elect a wimp on foreign policy like the previous President."
"I wonder if they will give the new President a Peace Prize for letting us tilt the economic table like we had for the previous eight years?"
@Tom Mariner
As long as there is another provider of all the goods that Chine exports to us, China may suffer. But most products on American shelves, even Ivanka's shoes, are made in China. We'll just pay higher prices due to trump's tax.
17
@Tom Mariner we, the consumers pay the cost of the tariffs which are passed on.
13
@Tom Mariner - It's kind of cute the way Trumpists have such rich fantasy lives. I hope those fantasies comfort them after Trump has left them in the dust.
12
Yes, all Walmart items will now cost 20% more, but on the other hand , Cap Ex, Jobs, Wages and GDP will increase. Time to get our sole we hocked to China out of the Pawn shop.
4
@Dean Oestreich Kinda ironic that it was the Repubs who insisted on pawning it in the first place...
9
"sole"
We talking about footwear imports?
16
@Richard Iverson - He must mean "sole", have you priced US-made shoes lately? If you can find them, they start at the high end of 'under $100' and go rapidly up from there. You have to look hard to even find them.
Thanks, Stable Genius. The worst " businessman " in America.
Seriously.
539
@Phyliss Dalmatian
Objectively, in fact. Trump had the largest losses of any American according to the tax forms which are accessible.
84
Will Trump shout "dracarys" to the only issue, the economy, that keeps his approval rating above 40%?
7
@Aaron
That dragon would be handy on occasion.
2
The new tariffs apply to importers and they don't apply to goods in transit i.e. the ones arriving in shipping containers; so it will probably be a couple of weeks before you see more tumbles.
4
Prices started going up Friday. Why? Because they could, thanks to trump.
9
@CK prices already went up once it was announced Friday
7
@CK
Like the price of gas at the pump, they’re pricing today to reflect what it’ll cost tomorrow to replace the inventory — next in, first out I think it’s called.
2
For some reason, the raised tariffs make me wonder whether the president of the United States be guilty of insider trading...
700
@leh Yes. Trump alerts a few business cronies that he is going to tank the Markets . They sell before and buy after the drop. A Trump company then sells something(s) to the cronies at highly inflated prices. All done with no Trump fingerprints.
501
@leh
This form of insiders trading (by legislators and the President) is legal and was know to the founding fathers 200 years ago who referred to it as "honest graft" : they assumed the new law or policy was creating real value for the economy and that they should be entitled to help themselves to a share of the growth (in stock price OR land values) as reward.
1
Actually that is not correct. The phrase “honest graft” was first used by Thomas Plunkett, a Tammany Hall politician. Emoluments or other means of taking financial advantage of elected office were specifically prohibited and in no way condoned by the founding fathers.
171