Finally someone who will stand up to the Chinese.
And Mr. Biden the Chinese already have started to buy soybeans again and removed the tariff on our cars.
We have the best position in this. We have the severe trade deficit. Chinese steal our intellectual property.
You may not like Trump but what he's doing is straightening out something that should have been done a long time ago.
5
Centrist Democrats who think the point of the Democratic Party is to compromise with Republicans needs to look at the long history that got us here.
It was Nixon and Kissinger that opened us up to China. While U.S. unions and most of he Democratic Party wanted to limit the import of goods that ompeted with their factories, it was Republicans that kept demanding "free trade without tariffs or other restrictions. For example, NAFTA was a Republican bill that sought to open up borders for capital. Unions and most Democrats opposed it.
Then comes Bill Clinton, who thought that helping Republicans pass their legislation would mean more votes for Democrats. So, Clintom went against the unions and strong armed enough Democrats to pass the Republican bill and signed it.
In 2000 Bill Clinton gave China normal trading relations, with the left, not Republicans, complaining. Every time that left Democrats tried to pass legislation to protect the American worker, Republicans shouted,"we can't pick winners and losers," and blocked it.
Now look at where we are. The Party of Trump is blaming Democrats for not doing anything to protect workers for decades, and the Centrist Democrats are so busy trying to protect the status quo that was created by Republicans, that it makes it look like Republicans are protecting workers and Democrats are protecting global corporations.
Republicans keep doing this kind of thing, and centrist Democrats are still demanding that we fall for it again.
3
We live in interesting times. On one side the Chinese, reputed by all to engage in unfair, sometimes predatory trade tactics. An authoritarian, sometimes brutal, regime with a terrible human rights record and a lot of broken promises. Naturally you might assume the American populace, and the rest of the world, would be firmly behind the Americans as these “talks” progress. Unfortunately, on the other side is Donald Trump; pathological liar with a track record of reneging on deals, withdrawing from deals, massively financially mismanaging deals, and having the work ethic and temperament of a four year old. The rest of the world holds its breath and prays for regime change in both countries.
3
China if you're listening help us get a Democrat into office.
3
We need to do a better job of letting Americans know that WE are the ones paying the tariffs, NOT the Chinese.
Another of Trump's phony "victories."
7
Trump is America's last chance to bring a reasonable trade structure to both economies. Chinese have been dumping their excess into American markets for decades; they've been stealing intellectual property--attempting to hack into Pentagon network constantly--for decades and used the theft for among other things to build a military that's on the edge of having a nuclear triad; they all but destroyed global shipping by sea; foolishly we've been educating their elite scientists at our universities for decades; XI censors China's internet at will (with help of Google, no less) and, worse, they've got reeducation camps or gulags for its malcontents the size of Massachusetts.
A 25% tariff is a minimum on Friday--send every Chinese student attending an American university or college home by Monday. If that doesn't work--close every port in the US to Chinese vessels. Done deal.
6
@Alice's Restaurant You know Americans are the ones who pay the tariffs, right? I don't think Trump understands that for some reason.
1
Someone should write a book called Economics for Dummies and send it to Bone Spurs he knows nothing about it, he truly thinks raising tariffs on China will help our economy. People will be paying more, much more for goods coming in from China, the money doesn't go into the coffers. Mr. Dealmaker himself the market is tanking as we speak. Great job.
3
Does this mean that everything in the dollar store will now be $1.25? Now I'm concerned.
4
China can't maintain its economy without massive trade surpluses. They are in a position similar to Japan in the 1930's; they need massive amounts of natural resources to prevent slipping into recession and poverty.
We, on the other hand, need to quit allowing them to maintain their trade surplus with us. That should be the measure of any trade deal we make. When the deal is signed, we don't know if that will happen or not, but it is most likely that we will be playing whack-a-mole as they seek new ways to gain advantage.
China will not slip gracefully into poverty. When they lose the ability to exploit someone, they will either slip into chaos or fall back on a military solution.
2
Trump is all bluff. A big bag of air. There will be an agreement. Trump will thump his chest and claim a glorious victory. His adoring sycophants will once again declare his greatness; and just like North Korea, absolutely nothing will have changed.
6
Except that China will be in a better trade position and the US will be in a worse one relative to China.
1
Why isn't he threatening American corporations who moved their factories to China in order to get lax regulation and slave labor?
Why is he still allowing corporations to bring in South Americans to work in their factories in America as slave labor.
Corporations don't get punished the illegals get punished.
What a set of laws we have. NOT
9
Trump's own organizations knowingly employ illegal immigrants, as do Trump supporters in the US agricultural industry. Trump, obviously, has no problem employing illegal immigrants. It doesn't matter what he says at his Nuremberg rallies; watch what his organization and his supporters actually do.
2
Trump’s policy is opening his big mouth and the world starts to crumble! No thought— just all mouth.
Not my kind of person to lead this beautiful, diverse country.
5
I remember when Trump got tough on immigration and the next thing you know, his in-laws are here in America for a free ride. Tough on anchor babies, not since the 2016 campaign. Immigration is worse now than ever.
5
Trump made this mess by thinking he could deal with the Chinese using threats. Guess what, their population is 4X ours, and instead of going to war with them, we should try to sell them things. I hope Trump voters in the red states, many of them depending on agriculture, catch wise. I hope that people buying washing machines at 16% above former retail catch wise. Tariff man is a dope, and before he finishes, he will ruin the American economy. Get rid of him in 2020.
8
I'm waiting to see what happens this spring when Iowa agricultural Trump supporters can't get new farm loans from their bank or can't pay the loans they have. It'll be interesting to see if they still see themselves as trade warriors when they bankrupt their farms because of Trump's lost markets. I suppose that they'll find a way to blame it on Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton.
2
It is quite amusing to read commentators accusing China of cheating. breaking their word, seeking world dominance, all the while forgetting who is the current president of the USA. 10,000 lies in just over two years and counting.
12
I’m comforted by the fact that billion dollar loss Donnie has things under control.
4
I'm still stunned the individual one reported the highest losses for tax purposes of any taxpayer in the United States. This screams tax fraud.
1
What's often overlooked in all this is the source of the trade issue. US corporations, over the decades, seeking fat markets and cheap labor agreed over and over to China's heavy-handed regulations for locating American businesses in their country. US corporations, big and small, gave away oversight of their operations to make profits for shareholders and big bonuses to their executives. Now, it's the farmer, the factory worker, the minimum wage service industry worker, the middle class getting hammered in this tariff war. And of course, weirdly enough, this is being managed by the worst businessman American history: Trump.
10
Only a few weeks after WTO accession in 2001, China implemented a discriminatory technology licensing regime called the Technology Import/Export Regulations, which discriminated against foreigners.
1
Why has China not threatened to restrict rare metals for which they are the primary supplier in the world?
The United States has 5% of the worlds population but thinks it can control everything in the world.
How long do you think the world will let that keep happening? Rather soon, one of the other powerful countries, one with nuclear weapons will laugh at us and we will need to lose some power and influence; which is already happening.
We try to tell Venezuela what to do and everyone else what to do.
Trump is starting to really irritate the world. The stock market shows that this week. And democracy is failing even more in this country.
Is our country slipping into decline? Apparently.
6
The Achilles Heel is the fact that thousands upon thousands of U.S. and other "Western" companies do so much of their assembly and manufacturing operations in China. A companion piece to this article in today's NYT stated that "foreign companies are already re-evaluating their dependence on China as a manufacturing hub." This basic reality lies behind all of the trade negotiations. China need not fear until there is in fact a massive move by American companies out of China. Where are they going to go? Back to the U.S.? This is more like an Achilles Foot or an Achilles Leg.
2
US is waging trade wars with too many countries, EU, China, Canada...This is not a good strategy. It's like the past Germany who waged wars with too many countries and finally failed as a result. Many people here commented that the "trade war would only bring short-term pain and things like that." If Trump is so determined to put tariffs on Chinese goods, why wouldn't he do it earlier as he put it on European and other goods, then negotiate after tariffs. That is because he couldn't do the same with China. And now, it's more like a smoke screen for 2020 election and trying to gain some leverages for the negotiation.
2
Again,Trump is totally clueless on how our manufacturing economy works. Real Estate is not the same as manufacturing, so in this case he really isn't a businessman. It's unfortunate, but true, that many of our industries rely on components manufactured in China. Their manufacturing process and product costs are based on this. Can we make the components in the US? In some cases yes, but at a higher cost. In other instances were are not presently tooled up and will take years to do so. This didn't just happen in the past 5 or 10 years it's been happening over the last 25-30 years. Tariffs and hardline talking won't solve the problem. If we are to be self reliant on all manufactured products then this government must make it cost effective to do so.
1
Every time Trump implies that his tariffs are paid by the exporting country, it is the duty of the press to point out that it is American companies and consumers who pay the tariffs. Tariffs are a tax on Americans.
9
Remember when Trump "got tough" with the Democrats by shutting down the government to get his wall, hurting millions of innocent people in the process? All raising tariffs will do is hurt American consumers.
9
Say what you want about Trump, but he's the only President who has been willing to confront China on their unfair trade practices and IP thefts. It's either be tough now, bite the bullet and experience a bit of economic pain, or continue to kick the can down the road, accept China's empty promises and we will eventually be dominated by China economically and politically
3
@Vincent..."he's the only President who has been willing to confront China on their unfair trade practices'...And just like his great healthcare reform; he doesn't have a plan.
5
It is no surprise that the day after former VP Biden made his remarks that he believed that China was not a competitor of the US and no threat to us economically, nor even strategically, that the Chinese reversed their previous commitments to Trump. It is obvious that the Chinese play a long game, and waiting for Biden to be President is a good move for them. He will give them everything they want. In fact, his son Hunter Biden has millions invested in China trade. Nor is it surprising that few journalists have pointed this out. The trade deal with China is dead. Biden killed it, and we are left to the tender mercies of President Xi, our workers, our farmers, our future. Thank you, Mr Biden.
4
@Francis Walsingham- Biden is only a candidate to become the nominee for the Democratic Party. But you are right, it could have had a negative effect on trade negotiations. I believe Nixon and Kissinger pulled the same stunt while LBJ was looking to end the Vietnam War.
2
China knows he's weak.
Russia knows he's weak.
Iran knows he's weak.
North Korea knows he's weak.
Ostensibly, the only ones who don't understand how weak is our President are House Democrats.
6
What's he negotiating for under the table this time - more trademarks?
The creep has managed to obtain quite a few more of those since he's been in office.
He still has his sweatshops in China which produce not only the clothes he wears to his xenophobic rallies where he shouts out racially charged birther nonsense, his China sweatshop is also producing his rally's banners for Trump.
Don't expect his remaining fans to catch on that we are the ones paying the tariffs. They can't even see how ridiculous they themselves look rallying for this swindler.
And he knows it.
I do wonder when he's just going to start laughing at them right in front of their faces. Especially since - before he began running for office - he wouldn't be caught dead speaking to any of them unless they were caddying for him.
When it comes to laughing at his admirers and man like Trump, it's obvious he's doing just that when he's behind closed doors.
7
The trade relationship between the United States and China is in the hands of the worst individual money loser in the country? A person who ran real estate, casinos, an airline, retail merchandizing and an online education venture straight into the ground? Why? Because he once uttered the meaningless phrase, "trade wars are easy to win"? In private life, it appears, huge losses (of other people's money) were the strategy and the associated tax writeoffs were the objective (along with lining his pockets with the marginal residue of each disaster). He doesn't seem to have demonstrated much else in the way of financial management aptitude. The legitimate press reports on each of his "moves" now with a studiousness that reflects their MO yet is surreal - because in this arena he must be flailing randomly without a clue (and of course without accepting the benefit of expert advice). Imagine looking up from the operating table just before going under and realizing that the surgeon has been replaced by someone who once played a surgeon on TV. Thus we watch as Mr. Trump "handles" the trade relationship between the United States and China.
7
@Jonathan: I read that the producer of The Apprentice said that it took 300 hours of video to get a 42 minute show. And, of course, it was all scripted by others, none of it 'real' in their reality show world.
Anybody can look perfect under those circumstances. The rubes fell for it. Now they should know better. But they have drunk the kool-aid a la Jim Jones and there is no turning back for them.
He really could shoot someone and they'd say the guy deserved it and Trump is strong.
5
@Jonathan Your comments are very prescient. I am no supporter of Mr Trump, and all America knows his failings and successes as a businessperson. He has lost lots of money, and made more money than you and I together, plus a great many readers of the Times. But, he remains the only president to have called China out on trade and his likely successor, Joe Biden, thinks that China is no threat to our economy nor to the economy of other Asian states, nor a threat to use strategically, despite the new military power of that country. So, whatever you think of Trump, learn to fear Biden, who will - as he said last Thursday - regard President Xi as his pal, and give away the store. He said so himself. Listen, and weep.
With Trump doing what he does, who can be sure about anything. He advertises himself as the “strong man,” and yet he’s constantly “angry.” Anger like his though, is a sign of weakness ... often for not being able to have one’s own way ... and not strength. Impotence seems to be a problem and main concern of Trump, which does not bode well for the nation, considering his being president. With him it’s one crisis after another ... and the nation is in grave danger.
6
The only person responsible for the fall in the market is Trump. the only person responsible for the war in the ME is Trump. If the economy goes into recession, Trump will be responsible. IF farmers go bankrupt, or unemployed workers increase, Trump will be responsible.
The policies of Trump are stupid.
11
"In particular, the administration had wanted the text of the agreement to specify that some of the changes would be made in Chinese law"
I believe this is the most difficult part for China government to swallow. How can the negotiation team gurantee its congress would approve the new law terms which is pretty much written by US.
In addition, whatif the new law fails to be passed by its congress? Would the consequence be even worse? given that the penalty will be clearly written.
Last but not least, would it be very ridiculous that a country's law is written by another country, which also must be passed?
5
Long over due. This and immigration are the only things this president has gotten right. I hope he stays strong on trade.
2
@J Clark...This is no different than his nuclear disarmament of North Korea and his great healthcare reform. A lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
1
I suppose if he shakes up markets and plans for war with Iran, it will take the focus off the Mueller investigation and his paper mache financial empire. The fact that his popularity is increasing in the midst of all this is a testament to our collective lack of mental agility.
5
Wow! What negotiating skillz!
China should just walk away and leave the many geniuses of this great administration scratching their heads.
6
Will low-tech manufacture sector come back to America given the tariff on China? No, they will go to other Asian countries like Vietnam and Bangladesh. It will come back only if America put tariffs on all developing countries.
Will this tariff destroy the competitivity of Chinese's goods. Yes, but only in America market. America only takes 18% share of the total exportation of China. This tariff can not destroy Chinese company in the global market. Likewise, U.S. can only destroy Chinese economy if he can advocate all her allies to boycott Chinese goods. (Look at Huawei)
Then there comes a question. Why would U.S citizens want to pay such high price(tariff) to boom the economy in South-East Asian at the same time do not cause too much trouble for their enemy?
7
Trump revels in "talking tough" now that he's president. He still has to hide behind at least a half-dozen bodyguards, and the only actual fight he's ever been involved in is -- apparently and in accordance with the deposition of the first wife Ivannah -- spousal abuse, and he was afraid to say "You're fired" to people to their face, like James Comey, Rex Tillerson, Rob Porter, etc. and so forth, and but he sure does revel in "talking tough" now that he's president. Oh, and leave out Putin as well. The day Trump stands up to Putin will be the day Trump turns into a reasonable adult without daddy issues, and that isn't any time soon.
6
Trade issues aside do we really want the multiply bankrupt, inheritance squandering, money losing, tax avoiding, scam artist negotiating anything? Um...no.
11
The US is exploiting China’s weakening economy to bring Beijing to its knees. Trade data last month showed a stalled export growth, a slump in domestic demand and exploding debt levels.
A protracted trade war would hurt China more than the US. But the dispute would be better solved without taking a toll on the global economy.
It remains to be seen how President Xi weathers the storm. Despite encouraging messages on state-owned media, the stakes are high for him, who wants to make China a global superpower to rival the US and has asserted tight control over the country.
He will insist on the right for China to make its technology competitive with the US. It comes at a moment when the US is frustrated with China over allegations of forced technology transfers, and intellectual property theft and the dumping of goods on global markets.
In fact the trade talks have highlighted China’s structural problems, that need to be addressed. The question is whether Xi is ready for reforms.
2
Tariffs are not imposed on the country providing the goods. Tariffs are imposed on the IMPORT of goods - that is the buyer of those goods pays to be allowed to bring them in. The intent was to make imported goods more expensive and force the buyer to look for a domestic supplier of those same goods. Trouble is, domestic manufacturers quit making things like toys here because China beat them on price. Now there is little choice but to buy from other countries and China is one of the cheapest.
5
You are wrong. In the case of Handbags, most of the buying switched to India because of 10 percent duty. Also some China factories had to lower their prices to keep some programs running. Further, there is more and more possibilities of making bags in US with these net prices. I really wish people that don’t know what they are talking about to stop passing their opinion. Trump knows what he is doing.
1
@mzmecz
We forget that American companies made China what it is today. So I guess we are at war with ourselves. Where did all those domestic manufacturers goto make things like toys and furniture and clothing and tools? Why they all went to China in order to profit from the low wage labor and lack of environmental regulations. Wages and costs were so cheap that even shipping the stuff across the Pacific did not price them out of American markets. China is what it is because American capitalists made it what it is.
7
I just don't understand why "making a bad deal" is even one of Trump's options... how does he reach such a conclusion? From his remark, one might conclude that Trump thinks he must choose an answer from column A or from column B. If only life was really that simple...
2
Yes it’s that simple if you understand trade and business. Trump knows what he’s doing.
1
@Mike K....Like when he went bankrupt four times. The only thing he knows how to do is lose other people's money.
1
Who's the better negotiator? I guess I'd have to say the nation that has been around for thousands of years.
5
As flawed as Trump is, I'm 100% behind him on confronting China. Past Presidents were owned by corporate lobbyists that wanted to use cheap Chinese labor to pump up stock prices. China has a long term plan to dethrone the US as the world's military and economic super power. This is a matter of long term national security.
5
Yes, China has long term plans. Wouldn’t it be amazing if we did?
7
@T. Rivers Yes it would, but we change Presidents every 4-8 years.
Trump could successfully pin China as the next Soviet Union or Al Qaeda, whereby policies towards it are non-partisan, ie they are the enemy of the state
@T. Rivers: Mitch McConnell has a long range plan and he implements it every day. Every day, another right wing, unqualified, incompetent Liberty U 'lawyer' becomes a federal judge.
He's been in this game for a long time: see Merrick Garland.
4
"I am very happy with over $100 Billion a year in Tariffs filling U.S. coffers."
Does he know that it's U.S. manufacturers and consumers who will pay those dollars into the U.S. coffers, not China ?
10
Nope. He has no idea how any of this works.
9
@mpbailey...."I am very happy with over $100 Billion a year in Tariffs filling U.S. coffers."...That's great, now the Trump budget deficit this year will only be $900 billion dollars.
Stop giving China a pass on everything from Human Rights to dishonest business practice. It would have been nice to show a united front with our allies but that wasn't going to happen with Trump and maybe with no one else either as no one wants to say no to Chinese business. So now we have Trump with his loose cannon, who cares approach. I hope in this case it works! Let's not forget, the current Chinese government is not something to admire, aspire to or defend.
2
@Mr. Marty - Nor is the current American government something to admire, aspire to or defend.
5
China has had their way and has been much more clever in taking advantage of our trade policy the past 20 years. They know they can wait Trump out till the election and deal with a weaker president. Will they win?
1
More threats by the US against its allies (lapdogs). If the US doesn't want to trade with China or any other nation that is its choice. It is time the nations of the world started to stand up to the US and regained their sovereignty. Currently the US has sanctions against 30 countries. It is time the US was reined in and isolated. How much more havoc and misery is the US going to subject the globe?
7
"“When the U.S. and China fight, nobody wins,..."."
Except Trump due to his exhibition of his "negotiating" skills.
We the consumer loose.
And the manufacturers will game the system and shift production to countries not affected by the tariffs.
2
I don't want to pay more for goods manufactured in China that I buy here in the U.S. because Trump wants to fight with Xi over world dominance.
All Trump's tariffs will do is increase the price American consumers pay for Chinese goods.
This is an example of Trump exercising weird bullying theories he believes will let him get his way by pointlessly harming Americans. Trump is doing this because he wants to look "tough" and because he enjoys fighting. Tough luck for U.S. consumers who won't be helped by this tactic.
Basically no economists support these tariffs and many have stated the result is increased costs for American consumers.
Why doesn't this article address this issue?
5
It coming down to the Globalist vs. The Nationalist. Sadly American business for the sole sake or profit, and the hopes of new and "open" markets, walked into the den of the Tiger hoping they would be able to do what they have always down.
We all know how that one turned out.
In the process we have dismantled the majority of our heavy industries here in the US, killing American jobs and placing us in an enormous venerable spot. Now to bring them back will take an effort like the moon launch...not renegotiating a trade deal.
American business' does not have to leadership, nor the share holder majorities, or any intention to do the right thing for our country.
Whoever wins in 2020 needs to realize China is not changing for us and the celebrated "free markets"...they want to run the table plain and simple and being an authoritarian communistic state well they can do that, and more, with virtually no resistance.
What America really needs to do is to make a complete shift and make it a national priority to rebuilding our own country's infrastructure, reducing debt, and give our children the best education and tools to thrive in the 21st century and stay the innovating leader of the world.
Sadly not even the Trump Nationalist, or the Democrats, have a ten year plan. The next front runner for 2020 needs to have vision, they need inspire business and lead this country to new greatness, which will not look like the days of old.
China clearly gets that.
2
Happy to see a president with a backbone that can finally stand up and negotiate with the Chinese instead of cower in the corner
1
Keep it up US, it's absolutely right and long overdue, I wish Europe would "grow a spine" and do the same. Everything else has been tried already over almost 20 years, promises remain unfulfilled, unfairness and exploitation persist to this day. China won't give anything up until it starts to cost more than it benefits.
29
@Boxer Oh please, nobody forced European and U.S. investors and companies to invest in China and reap the benefits, nobody forced consumers in Europe/U.S. to buy IPhones or jeans produced in China and at a lesser cost. I never hear consumers stating they want to start paying more for these products as long as Chinese workers were sweating long hours in factories, happy to buy them from China. China has become wealthier and has long term visions and goals, after being a very poor country. You now want to punish China for becoming wealthier through hard work and planning? Many in the west have become lazy and complacent and do not want to study and work hard to succeed. Until we get our mojo back again, well done on China.
20
@Marc Faltheim Americans certainly got some benefits, ie lower prices on goods from cheap labor. But back track even further, you can argue China should never have been allowed into the WTO to even be part of the supply chain. China has broken many of the promises they made upon acceptance and seems like they have no plans on ever keeping them. China has used its economic growth to challenge the US economically and militarily. It has to be addressed, and I doubt Trump will be able to long term reform China to be fair. Any promises made by China in any agreement with Trump will likely be broken in the future. The US should have a longer term plan to decrease reliance on Chinese manufacturing to countries such as Vietnam, Brazil, India, etc. TPP anyone?
11
@Marc Faltheim
I am sorry if this comes across as rude, but which world do you live in and where do you get your business news?
China has been cheating from day one and has not acted in good faith. All it cared about was stealing as much technology and know how from private foreign companies as it could, and using this stolen technology to create massive State run companies that could crush all competition. These companies would be another arm of the Chinese government, as their goal would not be to just make money but to also spy on anyone and everyone. Huawei is a clear example of this and soon there will be other companies.
5
It seems that China knows pretty well how a good "business man" is. They will take advantage of him.
6
Maybe an angered Trump will behave like an angered Trump and default on the US debt that China holds.
1
Forget trying to deal with Trump, he doesn't know how. Impeach him now before he can do more damage to the country.
5
It is obvious by now that Trump has never played chess-he has no ability to look at the board and visualize several steps ahead.It is now obvious that he has not played the game of Bridge- If he had he would know how to finesse his cards.His only technique is to threaten and punish.This is small minded and shows a limited ability to problem solve-it is simply a caveman technique.The second largest economy in the world is not going to bow to Trump”s threats.The American farmer and to some extent consumers will suffer from Trump’s tariffs.
11
Will there be the costs of the tariffs? of course there will be some sacrifice that we would have fewer options to buy cheap products of low quality from china at Walmart and discount stores. Yet benefits from the tariff is more on long term side of making American economy healthier by pushing domestic industry to find more innovative and productive ways to keep the cost down in place of Chinese products.
But more important reason for this tariff must be on national security side: containment of China on all fronts as it become more adversarial to us and challenges us at every level, militarily, territorially and economically.
Think about what China has done for last decades to us.
- in return of our embracing them under WTO and free global market, they have made trillions of dollars through trade surplus with us and then use the financial power to build up its military to forcefully occupy the islands of the South China sea and declare the whole sea as their territory and publicly announced to attack US navy if necessary.
- remaining a sole sponsor to North Korea and helping them to complete nuclear armed ICBMs and encourage them to make nuclear threats to US and its allies, south korea and Japan and Taiwan.
- spreading its IT network equipment and cell phones like HUAWEI pre installed with backdoor apps around the world and hacking and stealing industry and military technologies through its students researchers working at our university labs.
5
First, this is established typical trump behaviour, changing terms after agreements have been made to make it appear as if trump is the victim. Chinese have complained about this multiple times and trump history shows this is trump SOP.
Whether or not Chinese reneged I do not know, but 35 years of trump business history shows he is a poor negotiator and reneges on deals, lies about it and depends on lawyers to deal with it.
The job is to negotiate with China, not to have an excuse for failure, Here it is more consistent with the history of trump behaviour that he is seeking a failure with the opportunity to appear as a victim of China to keep the process in limbo, perhaps even to market to his followers that trump is the strong man and that any Democrat would be too weak to negotiate a deal.
But one reality is that the job is to negotiate a deal with China, trump said “only he could do it ” and that trump has failed to do that and now he is trying to look like the victim to cover up his inadequacies in negotiation as well as to extend the process as a campaign issue to suggest that he should be re elected as any Democrat would be too weak to negotiate.
Negotiating with China may be difficult, but that is what the job is. The “trump standard negotiating techniques” of lying, threatening , bullying and making vile personal attacks are not considered successful techniques by successful negotiators.
55
@steven
The hard fact in our world history is that sometimes, bullying and military threatening, even lying has been the most frequent used tactics of "great negotiators" in world powers dealing with some totalitarian governments like Chines communist regime who won't hesitate a second to use brutal force and bullying and lying to get what they want. It is time to repurpose their bullying tactics against them as we consider what they have done to us as the follows.
- in return of our embracing them under WTO and free global market, they have made trillions of dollars through trade surplus with us and then use the financial power to build up its military to forcefully occupy the islands of the South China sea and declare the whole sea as their territory and publicly announced to attack US navy if necessary.
- remaining a sole sponsor to North Korea and helping them to complete nuclear armed ICBMs and encourage them to make nuclear threats to US and its allies, south korea and Japan and Taiwan.
- spreading its IT network equipment and cell phones like HUAWEI pre installed with backdoor apps around the world and hacking and stealing industry and military technologies through its students
4
@Steven Our businesses made a serious error in making themselves vulnerable to a country that has shown repeatedly that it will use trade extortion whenever it has a reason and the leverage to do so. Years ago, the rare earth episode with Japan should have been more than enough to put us on notice that China is not a friendly country with its present government, and it does not share the goals of the free world. Its goals are not only a serious threat to us and our allies, it has shown that it will ignore ethical business practices and fair play whenever it believes it can gain advantage by doing so.
There will be medium-term pain from trade friction with China, but it's much better to take that medicine now than to let the problem grow. Whatever leverage China gains it has shown it will use to our disadvantage. China cannot be trusted. It's that simple.
7
@steven Did you read the article? China back tracked on previous agreements during the negotiations. I think you need to do more research of China's broken promises upon being accepted into the WTO. They are soaking up all the advantages of WTO trade and rejecting any disadvantages with multiple broken promises. I'm convinced their plan all along was never to reform their economy to WTO standards, but to hold the world hostage with their cheap labor and manufacturing, so that after they gain a foothold in the world supply chain, they can reject any promises after becoming too big to fail. All the while, the cash flowing into the country was used to prop up their military and challenge the US and its interests. China's ascension was an enormous failure of past Presidents getting swindled, because they were owned by corporate interests wanting to prop up stock prices with cheap Chinese labor.
8
So much for "art of the deal." Trump couldn't negotiate himself out of a paper bag.
8
There are problems with our relationship with China, and there are many other problems in the world. Trump's only real "talent" appears to be his ability to find the worst way to "fix" any given problem.
No longer content with simply losing his own money and that of investors in his businesses, Trump seems compelled by his bellicose nature and outsized ego to lose the money of the American people.
It's all a game of fog and mirrors in the mind of this toddler in old age, but the ramifications may last for decades. Indeed, in just two short years, the entire republic has systematically been attacked by this arrogant and ignorant man-child.
Under the delusion of a "roaring" economy, this administration is tearing apart what America is, and China will reap the rewards. Only those who've been given the big tax breaks will have enough to sustain them once this is all said and done.
7
Again, I point out: When Trump tanks the stock market with his tweets, he KNOWS the stock market will tank when he does it. And he is the only person who knows when those tweets will be sent. Could that be intentional to let his people buy stock for him when it is low and then sell it when he tweets the 'never mind' a few days later and stocks rise again? If his 'people' are tipped off about the tweets, that is inside trading, is it not? Do that a few times and you can make a bit of money on that.
10
It seems like the only was we can get cooperation these days is to bully them, not through good ideas or vision. It signals, to me anyway, our days in the leadership position are numbered.
1
Tariffs are taxes that will be paid by U.S. consumers of any product containing foreign materials imported into this country. Do Trump supporters understand that, or do they think that tariffs tax the Chinese? I don't understand how unraveling decades of trade pacts and beneficial agreements is a good idea. Trump is not smart enough to negotiate better, new agreements. He functions only for Trump. Good god, no American bank will loan him money for his projects! Think about that.
10
Clinton should never have allowed China in the WTO. They are not a free market economy. They take the advantages of capitalism and don't assume the disadvantages. The government there works hand in hand with corporations creating an unfair imbalance. Forced technology transfers pillage US corporations. The US should make some deal here, but have a 10-20 year plan of moving all manufacturing out of China. Any President after Trump should look into this seriously and not sell out to corporate interests looking to pump up their stock price on cheap Chinese labor.
2
@Not 99pct Is that the way of the future? Clinton and other plutocrats assumed China wanted what we wanted. Clearly they never took time to read Mao's Little Red Book. Fast forward to today, and just like our politicians... they do put they want to stick to their principles.
Clearly this is what China is betting on. The WTO and the United States need to realize that the 20th century is in the rear view mirror and now is the time to meet Chain toe to toe in this this economic and technological war.
2
@Not 99pct
Haha . No publicly traded company will pull its manufacturing out of China; labor is too cheap. Unless they send it to an even cheaper labor pool. Shareholders want their dividends. It's all about the money.
Americans want wages that we can live on. We also need employer-provided healthcare, since this admin wants to kill off the ACA. Most corporations don't care about their workers, and only provide benefits because they have to. And the benefits workers have are steadily being whittled away with legislation like "right to work".
2
@ALB Yea well if there are 25% tariffs, production will shift. It's already happening slowly. The production won't go to the US, maybe a small amount. Think Vietnam, India, Brazil, Mexico. It will take 10-20 years.
Plain and simple, Trump is not a good negotiator and he should leave the trade talks to those who understand what's involved and how to move forward. He thinks he knows everything when, in fact, he knows very little.
6
Aren’t the costs of these tariffs just being born by the US consumer?
I’m confused why this is not being stated
11
@Nick Yes they are, not all but at least some. Consider it a matter of long term national security, because China has a long term plan to displace the US's place as the world's superpower.
@Nick
Will there be the costs of the tariffs? of course there will be some sacrifice that we would have fewer options to buy cheap products of low quality from china at Walmart and discount stores. Yet benefits from the tariff is more on long term side of making American economy healthier by pushing domestic industry to find more innovative and productive ways to keep the cost down in place of Chinese products.
But more important reason for this tariff must be on national security side: containment of China on all fronts as it become more adversarial to us and challenges us at every level, militarily, territorially and economically.
Think about what China has done for last decades to us.
- in return of our embracing them under WTO and free global market, they have made trillions of dollars through trade surplus with us and then use the financial power to build up its military to forcefully occupy the islands of the South China sea and declare the whole sea as their territory and publicly announced to attack US navy if necessary.
- remaining a sole sponsor to North Korea and helping them to complete nuclear armed ICBMs and encourage them to make nuclear threats to US and its allies, south korea and Japan and Taiwan.
- spreading its IT network equipment and cell phones like HUAWEI pre installed with backdoor apps around the world and hacking and stealing industry and military technologies through its students researchers at our university labs.
Trump must be forgetting how well Xi can control the consequences of a trade war in China. Economic reaction, social reaction, political reaction, will all be subject to Beijing's approval. Not so for the President, the markets will react the way they want, Congress will react the way it wants, and the voters will react the way they want. Who can sustain the battle longer?
7
Meaningful negotiations in any field are best left to professionals operating outside of public forums. The President is not a professional and definitely public. It does not seem it is going to end well.
9
Free trade with China seems to benefit everyone. But I still want to see a Free China.
4
EVERY polity (if those half baked ideas can be called policies) that Trump advances is based on his basic personality traits: bullying. Every party or interest he has to deal with is treated as an enemy to be vanquished.
China, on the other hand, has a different strategy. It is called the long game. They may have an economy based on international commerce, but China is not a democracy. In fact, they are an autocracy. As such, Trump’s tariffs, intended to force China to negotiate, will in the long term damage our economy, while China will wait out the demise of Trump one way or another. If not impeached or voted out of office, his reign of terror is limited to two terms. Sure, their economy will suffer, but the government will parcel out that economic hardship as it sees fit, knowing that it can preserve those business practices it favors. Just like Kim or even Putin, China will play along with Trump’s negotiations and threats until he is no longer their problem. If a deal is reached now, and Trump calls it the greatest, it will be the greatest for China.
12
I think that "Tariffs" would be an interesting new board game to see who wins. Personally I would love to see a world where only true arbitrage take the inefficiencies out of trade with zero barriers and impediments.
2
@Todd From capitalism will have nothing to do with such logic.
It is Wall Street and the rich that spoil Trump. He would bring down our economy and the stock market eventually, an irony to Wall Street and the rich. For the time being , the market seems to expect Trump to hold down the tariff hike last minute because it hasn't dropped much so far. However the global economy shows coming slowdown. China-dependent South Korean economy is the good indicator of real Chinese economy because China always makes up the numbers. The South Korean economy shrank 0.3 percent quarter-on-quarter in the first three months this year.
4
It would seem that Trump is seriously math challenged:
10% tariff on $200 Billion is $20 Billion, but he says:
"We’ll see, but I am very happy with over $100 Billion a year in Tariffs filling U.S. coffers…great for U.S., not good for China!”
By the way, YOU, the consumer pay that tariff, not China.
If he inflates his "net worth" the same way he inflates the tariff revenue, he is at most worth $2 Billion, and even that is not in evidence.
13
@Joe From Boston, you might be the math challenged. The $100B includes the additional tariffs he is proposing
4
@Mario
25% of $200B is still only $50 B.
Besides, those are extra taxes on Americans, not the Chinese.
Importer pays tariff to US govt.
Importer adds tariff to his costs, and then tacks on a profit (possibly calculated as a percentage of the tariff plus costs).
You buy the product, and YOU pay the tariff.
Are we winning yet?
12
@Joe From Boston-- I suspect Trump really does imagine a huge "coffer" somewhere, like the bank vault in the Harry Potter movie, filled with gold and treasure. Actually, since we are running a $1 Trillion deficit, any money coming in the front door is immediately shoveled out the back door to pay for the Trump tax cuts. The deficit is covered, in part, by selling bonds around the world, including China--so what happens when China decides not to play the game anymore?
12
The president and advisers are vilifying the Chinese and obviously intent to use this as a reelection ploy. China is not a problem and the Chinese mean only to work with us as partners. Please try to understand.
2
@Nancy Oh my, 'work as partners'?? Yes, we noticed their respect for the law here in Canada when the Chinese Gov apprehended three Canadians and sentenced two of them to death on bogus charges. Let me know how I can better 'understand' the way they want to do business if the law is a rubber stamp in Beijing.
2
Trade is about maximizing wealth by optimizing output from different sectors of the worldwide economy. China sees it as a tool to rule the world. That is why any deal is a sham.
2
It would have also been helpful to get the Chinese view rather than just regurgitating talking points from Trump officials with shredded credibility. A close reading shows that the US is pushing for enforcement mechanisms and demanding changes to Chinese laws that require China and its leaders to lose face; something that Chinese citizens will not accept.
The Trump White House is using the same bullying and blustering that they used on Canada and Mexico over NAFTA as well as their "relationship" with Iran, Cuba and Venezuela.
The problem is that this time they are picking on a country that has options to fight back.
It would be much more helpful if this article would have gone into the ways that China can retaliate.
The US has just had the lowest participation rate in US bond issues in over a decade. China is a large buyer, and holder, of US debt. Their mere failure to participate in future US auction would hurt the market and raise interest rates. If they decide to sell even some of their their US bonds they could cripple the economy.
US exports count for only 18% of the China's exports. On the other hand, the US is dependent on China for electronic parts, equipment and rare earth materials that aren't readily replaceable.
China could also pull out of the US banking system and offer an alternative system to the victims of US sanctions and Europeans sick of US 'exceptionalism'.
While the US can threaten to hurt China, China has the ability to cripple the US.
18
I'm certainly glad to hear trump is happy with 100 billion dollars in tariffs. Does he realize that the US consumer will be paying that 100 billion? He doesn't care what he does to the US consumer.
13
So much misunderstanding of context and history in these comments . . .
First, the trade imbalance exists because US firms (like Apple, GE, Caterpillar, the list goes on and on) decided to out-source manufacturing to China and for huge increases in their profits. Thus, a substantial amount of "imports" are products that US corporations decided to source from facilities that they are part-owner of in China.
Second, on the intellectual property issues, China has always had a very clear policy that international firms operating in China will be required to work with Chinese partners, including training those partners in technology and business methods. So, US executives, drunk on the rising value of their stock options, agreed to these terms. Yes, China also engages in industrial espionage around the edges, but the majority of tech transfers at issue have been contractually agreed to by the corporate executives now whining that the Chinese have learned enough to beat them at their own business.
Third, China has saved their profits on these arrangements over the last 20 years and now have the biggest bankroll in the world. Why? Because they understand the idea of saving and long-term investment. So, now they have the know-how, the manufacturing experience, and the capital to beat Western corporations in any industry they choose . . . look out Apple!
This monumental strategic blunder can only be corrected by US firms reinvesting in the US, not chest-thumping by Trump.
27
Regardless of Chinese sincerity to get a deal the original demands and bullying tactic just doesn't work with super powers. I stated from day one there would never be a deal written by this administration. Just as Trump rejected the EU offer of zero tariffs on ALL manufactured goods, including autos, this administration starts always with propositions impossible to accept. The Con Man, narcissist and mentally unbalanced is a prescription for disaster. i can only hope it gets contained with trade wars. Bottom line, China will not be forced into an absurd situation and had time to counter. I suspect that counter will be seen immediately after Friday deadline. This will get ugly. A man that loses 100 million a year for 10 years and pounds his chest on his business acumen couldn't care less about the people he serves.
6
He really doesn't realize that the 100 Billion in tariffs he's getting each year are coming from American taxpayers?
6
The biggest impact of all this will likely be on American consumers and farmers--the people who have the most to lose and can ill afford it while the President tries to bend China to his will.
But I really think, as usual, Donald Trump is blowing smoke. Or maybe the Chinese read yesterday's NYT article about Trump's focus on gaming the system for his own profits, and realize they aren't dealing with a straight shooter.
I certainly hope we have a "weak" Democrat in office instead of the "powerful" negotiator who was so successful in getting North Korea to abandon its nuclear program.
With Trump, what you see and hear isn't always what you get.
47
@ChristineMcM Trump certainly has his flaws, but assuming the Chinese are 'straight shooters' as you say is incorrect. As the Vietnamese will say about the Chinese, don't trust them. If they (the Chinese) are being nice, it's a trap.
4
@ChristineMcM. It's common for Chinese commenters to express sympathy for the low-income Americans who won't be able to afford to buy the things they used to make from the Chinese companies that took their jobs.
4
I agree with President Trump's tough stand vl
4
@Belgar Fine you keep paying the tariff tax, I don't want to. These tariffs btw are helping to make US businesses that use Chinese parts less competitive with their Chinese and European counterparts.
5
What! Caterpillar manufactures in China, Brazil, and and imports into the US as do, John Deere and Case or Fiat, to give Case it’s owners name, so why will they be affected by Tariffs under current WTO rules Chinese parts in Cat equipment assembled in Brazil, will be Brazilian manufactured.
Same applies to German Base units for John Deere it’s possible knockdown unit might be fully assembled in Europe to avoid being considered Chinese.
Apple IPads are mostly Vietnamese so the whole Tariffs argument is very complex.
U S Soya Beans and cotton are entirely different country of origin is easily established as are US Government bonds if China stops buying and Trump keeps threatening everyone who funds your deficit.
3
On balance, given the lies told us by our government, should we believe the Chinese?
8
I am no expert, just a reasonably well informed person who has been following this US/China trade dispute for a long time. It mystifies me why American businesses and investors are surprised that these negotiations are breaking down. Apparently they are not looking much beyond the "buy more soy beans" aspects of the negotiations, to recognize that Trump is asking China to fundamentally alter the relationship between the State and the economy. This they are not going to do, regardless of what tariffs Trump imposes on them. It certainly may hurt them but in their 4,000 year history they have endured much worse.
15
it truly amazes me how many on here have no concept of tariffs and how it offsets debts from exports. it also amazes me how most don't understand even though they fein like they have the knowledge that the tariff is paid by the country that it is levied upon by the lower export and lower demand for the products from said country. in turn the citizenry of the tariff imposing country will just buy alternative goods be it homemade or other import. so therefore the president is correct and the tariffs hurt China more than the USA all the while being paid indirectly and directly by China
3
@Andrea C Maietta I disagree wit this. Tariffs are typically paid by the importing agency (often a firm). To be clear, the seller can offer price concessions but the tariffs are paid in the country imposing the tariffs by those who bring the goods into the country. However, tariffs hurt consumers in the host country by floating prices to up near the tariff level (see effects of steel tariffs). Even if there are substitutes, they are higher priced - so consumers lose.
5
@Al Warner
Trade works when goods pass through a geographic area. Taxes will cause economic activities to bypass these areas where taxes are imposed.
So the resulting effect of Trump’s tariffs is that companies will avoid investing, manufacturing, operating in China.
This is why tariff hurts China more. Because manufacturing and supply lines can be rearranged bypassing China. Sure costs will likely increase in the short run, but in the long run companies will lower costs by relocating.
In fact we should never have begun trading with China until their peaceful intention is confirmed. Because we didn’t China is using their economic might to threaten their neighbors such as Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Vietnam India, etc....
1
@Andrea C Maietta You are the one that doesn't understand. In many cases, the parts that are being taxed are not even produced elsewhere. Take Econ 101 and you'll see that it is the importing nation that pays the tariff, not the exporting nation.
Perhaps you'll finally understand when PT expands tariffs to consumer goods. Are you going to buy your iPhone from India? I think not, it's produced in China.
1
Bluster only gets you so far.
Ask his those who loaned him money back in the 80’s and 90’s.
3
The situation is becoming increasingly complex especially considering the effects on the economy and the current status of the WTO.
Trump will impose tariffs, to be paid by his Walmart-shopping base, and then claim he is punishing China.
Art of the deal!
12
"the president is unfazed by the volatility in the stock market this week and wants to show China that he is serious about his threat to ratchet up tariffs."
Trump is unfazed by the stock market fluctuations because he and his buddies are making a fortune buying and selling depending on his latest tweet.
8
Why is anyone surprised? After all, in the world of commercial real estate you go into negotiations with a bunch of threats ahead of the meeting. Those threats show that you aren't a wimp, that you are the Master of the Universe and nobody is your superior. It worked for Trump and made him a billionaire who never lost a cent in a deal. (Don't listen to those fake-news stories - that was just manipulating the tax code with good accountants.)
Why can't the other world leaders simply understand that Trump tells the universe what to do and everyone does as they are told? Just follow orders and everything will be fine.
Get with the program! Trump is The Master of the Universe and you know it!
@George N. Wells
Sadly, can't tell if this is snark . . .
4
@KCox . . .
As I majored in sarcasm, I'm crushed.
1
As much as I abhor, and continue to abhor, President Trump's incoherent sledge-hammer approach to international diplomacy, one cannot ignore decades of Chinese perfidy on trade, most particularly in the state-sanctioned, state-perpetrated theft of US and other western intellectual property.
The president's way of dealing with the issue shows as much finesse and cogency as his on-again off-again bromance with Kim Jong-un.
3
How is it after all this time, that no one has told Trump he looks pretty stupid when he repeatedly asserts that the tariffs are paid by the country they are imposed on? The tariffs are paid by the American people when they buy the imported components or goods from China. Can he not understand the concept of tariffs or is he lying about it to "rally his base"? Either one doesn't seem to bode well for the American people.
33
@Abruptly Biff
That is inaccurate. In a matter of speaking the tariffs will be borne by the Americans if/when they buy Chinese goods. However, this in itself will drive down demands for Chinese goods, thereby hurting the Chinese whose economy is so dependent on exports. On the flip side, this may help other countries (or the US as well) if people chose to instead buy goods from those other countries. As an example the Commerce Department had imposed tariffs on steel and aluminum (2018), which in turn has helped Alcoa.
6
@Abruptly Biff Yes, curious how the "lower taxes" crowd just loves tariffs, which they wind up paying.
3
@Kirk Land
The tariffs ARE borne by Americans when they buy Chinese goods. Nothing about "in a manner of speaking".
Assisting Alcoa by forcing private citizens to pay the US government for buying Chinese goods? Sounds like socialism.
2
Trump has no art of the deal, it's all a con job. He has no idea how to make real deals. If he had known how, he would not have lost billions and gone bankrupt six times. He hasn't bothered to learn anything about foreign policy or anything else while squatting in the White House. He just lives in his own fake reality he creates daily for himself.
20
Does anyone besides Trump or Jared Kushner do anything without his direct permission?
6
POTUS has exerted ‘executive privilege’ over release of the report that he repeatedly says “Totally Exonerated” him.
4
Emperor Xi of China does not get it.
I (and many others) adamantly refuse to buy anything made in China. That goes for chopsticks made with formaldehyde and mislabeled as coming from Japan to high-end Huawei electronics based on stolen intellectual property.
American and our Taiwanese friends base our boycott on simple principles. Right vs. wrong.
We refuse to support the communist party because it is unprincipled, unethical, immoral, hegemonic, brutal, thuggish, increasingly violent, untrustworthy, autocratic and in many ways downright 'evil (such as forced organ removal from persecuted and imprisoned Falun Gong practitioners) for profit. This list of transgressions is long. Ninety-three percent of Chinese people are precious and very dear to me. The ruling CCP and its emperor must be replaced. They have forgotten Confucian principles that guided China's leaders for epochs.
They have ignored the Confucian principles of ‘ren’ (humane behavior) and reciprocity, so the price/demand curve for Chinese products is vertical. (We will not buy a product made in China at any price).
4
@Charlie Brown: At least Emperor Xi has the common sense not to do his negotiating on Twitter. As for boycotts -- that works both ways. Hence the consumer boycotts of American products in many countries -- a lot of whom used to be American allies in trade conflicts with China -- who have grown tired of being bullied by the overgrown man-child who currently occupies the White House. Good luck trying to sell anything labelled "Made in USA" outside of the United States -- because you're going to need it.
6
@Charlie Brown
you buy it everyday. Either through a subsidiary or as the Some of these lawsuits against fake "made in America" companies.
https://madeinusanews.com/category/lawsuit/
heck it took a act of Congress to get the flags of this country actually made in this country.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr916/summary
I'm not saying it's right but your government already sold you a bill of goods and they ain't from here.
3
I purposefully dissect labels of everything on the shelves I think about buying or on Amazon. It isn't fool proof, but I try. If components or base chemicals come from China, 'No sale'. If in doubt, kick it out. '
If a lot of people did the same around the world long enough, the CCP would be forced out. Just do it.
1
Threats and taunts, domestically and internationally, and therein we have a president and an administration both disastrous. Well, China is beyond taunts and threats and will be fine.
4
@Nancy
We shall see about that - won't we. The fact is - a trade war will hurt China immensely and shave off nearly 1.5% of their projected economic growth rate (expected to be around 6.5%). This may dangerously destabilize not such their economy, but also Xi's political fortunes.
1
@Kirk Land How much debt do we owe China right now? That's a long way from being paid off.
1
to quote Spock's Vulcan proverb : perhaps only Nixon could go to China, so perhaps only Trump can get China to come to him.
1
@Ramesh G
Perhaps only Trump can destroy the US. China is coming to watch the fireworks.
@Keith
yes, but if China is being unfair, it takes one to know one...
"The president has tended to back off whenever markets and the economy have looked soft."
Of course, there's money to be made off any sudden downturn in the market, especially if traders are assured that it will turn back up as soon as Trump backs off his bluster.
I wonder how much Jared Kushner and the dinner crowd at Mar al Lago raked in off this bit of Twittercrat bluster.
10
Trump should know better than to try to bully the country which holds 1.13 trillion dollars of our debt and is crucial to any progress with North Korean on nuclear disarmament.China does, indeed have to honor trade protocol but does not react well to threats.Trump has only two gears- you’re with me or I am going to punish you!Whatever happened to,painstaking diplomacy-it has been a staple of our foreign policy until Trump arrived and “tweeted”his angry and insulting opinions.He has had no foreign policy successes and the world i more dangerous no than it was two years ago.The North Koreans have not destroyed any of their nuclear arsenal and, in fact, are sending off missiles again.Isis is not defeated, they have moved their areas of operation.Iran is angrier than ever and Maduro is still the leader of Venezuela.Trump, the bully, and Pompeo and Bolton, the hawks,are making dangerous situations even worse.
15
If there was any “intelligence” in this trumped up administration there would be no guessing about why North Korea fired the missiles or China’s pre- or post knowledge. These jokers are no-nothings and there ignorance-based decisions are a danger to our best interests.
4
If you bought a washer or dryer the tariffs cost you $200 on the pair.
MAGA
Trump might truly not understand who pays the tariff, but that 200 t0 500 billion dollar threat is to your pocket book.
He is once again turning his guns towards our European allies and Canada.
Putin could not be happier.
14
Classic Trump. When it comes to negotiations, first, he lobs in a flash grenade, shakes everyone up, and then, with his ego a blazin', he rides in on his white horse and tries to be a big hero, demanding all sorts of unrealistic, self-serving terms.
Thing is, everyone knows this is how he operates and they laugh at him behind his back. In Texas he'd be the guy they describe as; "All hat and no cattle." Has he gotten the Nobel Peace Prize for his success in North Korea yet? You know, the prize for which he asked Japan to nominate him.
Here at home, Liddle Donny 'The Night Tweeter', has crossed the line of the law and he just bought himself and all his supporters One-Way, None-Stop, No-Return Tickets to the little town of Ignominy, out there across the Pecos in the Desert of Broken Dreams.
10
How can any country trust a constant prevaricator, who does not honor any contract, treaty or law? As quoted in thebulwark.com article entitled, Trump and the Maximum Security Metaphor:
“... But for Trump, winning is the only thing that matters. If it takes disregarding laws and norms to do it—what he euphemistically calls playing it “rough and tumble”—then so be it. The end of winning justifies the means of breaking a rule or law....” Or treaty for that matter.
4
Love it when he taunts. That irascible schoolboy quality is just so appealing in a Commander in Chief.
7
@James I am laughing at your satire but crying about its truth.
It is not just that farmers have lost markets. Caterpillar and Deere, whose products farmers consume, have each had to pay $100 million plus last year in US taxes (tariffs) on higher component import costs, raise prices, and lay off employees. This should tell us who mostly pays these tariff/taxes. Exporters do lose markets and may discount, but tariffs are mainly a tax on US importers and consumers. A willingness to accept losses is inherent in bargaining, but needs to be credible, strategic, and done in a manner allowing back down without loss of face.
5
Trump believes that he is negotiating from a position of strength and the Chinese will give into him. Negotiations for Trump are making demands and threatening tariffs. The Chinese want to continue their advantageous unfairly acquired export position. Ultimately the Chinese are going to be confronted with a position to accept Trump's demands or slip further into trade war. Which Trump thinks the US can win. Trump's approach has already antagonized other US trading partners who have balked against the US. The USs unilateral sanctions against Iran and Russia are also placing strains on the USs trading partners.
1
Trade and war are interconnected.
When China refused a trade agreement with the West to allow trade in opium, the West militarily intervened and defeated China twice in the Opium Wars. The leadership and the people of China remember this period.
The leadership of China will not accept foreign bullying over trade. If the current occupant of the White House pushes too hard, Chinese may conduct provocative military gestures in the South China Sea.
2
Like him or not, at least Trump is attempting to tackle the China trade/IP theft issue, which is far more than can be said of his predecessors. I disagree with him on most things, but wish him the best of success on this front.
3
Why would anyone making deals or signing treaties with us when we can back out later when the administration changes hand? Nafta, Iranian Deal, Nato commitment, Global Climate Agreement, to name a few. Or worst, if we signed a treaty, then the treaty was not ratified by the Senate, we still have a bragging right of being part of a treaty but fails to comply with it if it does not suit our objectives or interests. e.g. Law o the Sea Treaty. We think we can dictate other nations because we have the biggest military. It was pretty much true after WWII, but not, we have a multi-polar world, and other nations are catching up, and we are not the King of the Universe any longer. We should get on with the reality,
7
I would expect the Chinese to be unwilling to make a deal. It makes no sense to compromise and potentially help Trump get re-elected. Then they would have to deal with him for four more years. Politically and economically China is better off torpedoing any trade deal, which will increase the likelihood that Trump will not be re-elected.
3
I wonder if Trump ever took economics 101?Or ever bothered to comprehend the downside risk of putting up tariffs?
2
China could simply answer all of these tariffs by opening a single website, and posting free versions of every single American movie, tv show, book, and software program available. The American industries would collapse overnight.
And the US could do nothing about it.
3
Trump forecasted that trade wars are easy to win. Are they easy to lose also? Perhaps Trump has decided that certain business interests( copyright holders) in the US are more important than others (farmers) and that sacrificing the less important interests (farmers) is in the interests of the US. So the farmers will have his thanks for their patriotism--and there increased vulnerabilities to certain US corporate interests. The US people will pay the increased tariffs to the US government---is that a win and for whom? And Trump will declare victory over US interests and Chinese exports. Will the trade deficit decline this year?
"the two countries were headed toward a deal that would open Chinese markets to American business, require China to protect intellectual property and result in large purchases of American products."
Apple makes all of their fantastic products in China, mostly with parts imported there from other countries. GM sells more cars in China than they do in the US.
What exactly are these fantastic other businesses that need more access to China? And why is this not a problem of businesses i.e. Americans who can not speak or read the Chinese language, more than it is a problem to be solved by 'the government'.
The short answer seems to be that it isn't a problem that demands a government answer. This is a problem with the nonsense that bounces around in the empty space between bozo's ears.
The trade deficit is not money that China is taking from the US and the tariffs are a tax paid by the American consumer ultimately in the form of higher prices for goods purchased that if anything exacerbates the problem in bozo's head.
The solution is to put someone who actually understands something other than how much time you need to spend in the tanning machine every day in the Whitehouse.
The day for that is coming soon in November 2020.
2
"I am very happy with over $100 Billion a year in Tariffs filling U.S. coffers".
A 10% tariff on $200 billion worth of imports nets $100 billion?
That means a 25% tariff would raise $250 billion?
Sounds like a plan!
5
Insulting one’s partners while actively negotiation with them? What part of the Art of the Deal is this?
7
“I am very happy with over $100 Billion a year in Tariffs filling U.S. coffers...great for U.S., not good for China!”
I don’t think the President realizes that it is us who pay his tariffs!
4
And just who pays those tariffs, US consumers be they individual or corporate. Trump is just taxing us all and gloating about it.
5
Contrary to what the media is reporting China is paying a price in regards to the tarriffs. They are losing jobs. It is the same price tens of millions of working class US citizens have paid for decades now. Trade deals with China help China and rich Americans. Working class Americans have been paying for years.
1
@willt26
China has lost jobs over the last several years due to Chinese workers wanting higher wages. Try to buy kids clothes not made in Vietnam or Pakistan while at stores like Walmart.
No matter what happens there will be no $15 tee shirts made in the US ever again.
1
After
1) Trump's total failure to extract any concessions from Iran, North Korea, Palestine, or Europe,
2) migrants streaming across the border in larger numbers because of his policies,
3) his inability to get even 40% of the country behind him,
4) the impending release of his tax returns and other skeletons,
5) and his repeated promises to deliver his base a "win" before the election,
I bet the Chinese must be really feeling the pressure to cave in to his demands.
4
There is no basis for Trump's claim that a weak Democrat will kowtow to China. Despite this , China has not adhered to WTO rules. Intellectual property theft and forced technology transfers are MAJOR MAJOR problems. Previous administrations have been unable or simply unwilling to tackle the issue due to political fallout. It's unfortunate that a man like Trump is the one to finally tackle the issue by playing hardball. Most commenters here do not realize that if the status quo continues with trade, the US will be severely affected in the years to come. Some have brought up TPP but the negotiations were shrouded in such secrecy. Trump exploited this and killed it.
1
I more and more think we will be forced to sit back and watch Trump burn the economy and the country to the ground before people come to their senses and remove this man from office. I never imagined in my 64 years on this earth that I would witness my beloved country going through a travesty like this.
6
@John
Reagan- Savings and Loan
Bush - Mortgage and Banking
Trump needs four more years to find his industry to sack our economy.
1
I pray that this trade war continues on for a long time so that we can see the collapse of the American family farming industry.
1
Fostering public chaos with a circus-like atmosphere of "taunts" and puerile gesturing is part of Trump's oh-so-effective "art of the deal" methodology. Given the Times's reporting this morning to the effect that Trump is a record-breaking loss-leader, we see how effective he has been strategically. If everything were not so fraught with danger, I myself myself might be entertained by this spectacular loser of a businessman pretending to be an expert negotiator.
4
Rather sounds like the Times tax story on DJT this morning re his playing the market by sending out signals he was taking over a company sending its stock soaring. Then selling his stock at a huge profit he stepped back. Investors eventually caught on and...the rest is history.
Trump has been playing our allies, our frenemies, and our foes since he took office. They, too, have caught on and his threats, tweets, disinformation, and lies are no longer working with them.
It appears the American people, apart from his base, are tuning him out as well. It's unfortunate that the news media can't step back and cease reporting on his every move as well.
Remember how Charlie Brown used to hear grown-ups when they spoke, " Blah,Blah,Blah,Blah."
Seems the world is following suit and ignoring his bullying. His bark is so often worse then his bite, he forgets, backtracks, or often turns to a love fest.
Our child-king hates nothing more than to be ignored or one-upped. He's continues to be played.
3
@It's About Time
I agree. Tired of the media, including this paper, reporting on every little tweet!
In my career, I have engaged in numerous negotiations involving figures as high as hundreds of millions per year. In a complex negotiation, certain parts are finalized and "put to bed" and you move on to the next area of discussion. If resolution of one area is contingent on satisfactory resolution of something else, you make that known at the outset. You do not come in at the 11th hour to change things you agreed to months earlier.
It is clear to me what is going on. The Chinese thought that, if they got the negotiation close to resolution, the Trump administration would see a deal so close that they could taste it. This would then cause them to give in and reopen areas previously resolved.
This is bad faith tactics on the part of the Chinese. The events of this week show that the Chinese need to have the matter of trade resolved more than the Americans do. So some of our stocks falter. We have a load of businesses that make their money by importing and reselling Chinese merchandise. Amazon and Apple, for example. And we have some others that sell to the Chinese. Caterpillar, GM, for example. But by and large, our economy can much better adjust to less trade with China than the Chinese economy can adjust to less trade with the USA. We have the upper hand, and should negotiate consistent with that fact.
4
News articles frequently quote the total of $200 billion in goods from China subject to tariffs but rarely list the actual products.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-china-trade-war-list-of-goods-tariffs-2018-9
The list is wide ranging but one common thread is that the vast majority of these food, industrial and consumer commodities can be readily sourced from other low cost countries. Those that are unique to China like certain electronics were specifically excluded.
Americans inclined to believe these tariffs are protecting American jobs and industries are bound to be disappointed. They may be even more disappointed in retaliatory actions by China.
The first tariffs of 10% produced little impact because they were largely offset by a similar devaluation of Chinese currency against the dollar. The 25% tariffs will result in accelerating resourcing of imported goods from China to other countries at somewhat higher prices.
The Trump trade war with China is all about strategic goods and services like technology and financial services. It should be dawning on Americans by now that the big winners will be those who are winning already in the prospering metros.
I am with trump on this, much as it sticks in my craw to say so. China is an existential threat to the planet's economic future. Its mercantile policies are extremely effective, but designed only help itself. The more they subsidize their own industries, the more the rest of the planet loses market share. Simple as that.
While many on the left seem to overlook this basic fact, I find it very frightening. I have worked in China for the last 8 years, so it's not like I don't know the country or its people. For them, its all power. If they have it, they use it. Want your final payment? Tough. Regardless if you have a contract. Been burned twice, so that is over. Kind of like trump, no?
I was very discouraged to hear the hardliners and Xi cancel the deal. If this deal founders, watch for import tariffs on anything with Chinese content, a la that USMCA. See how trump has stymied the EU on trying to go around the Iran sanctions. A similar approach will give them pause to try to compete in the US market by using Chinese products.
The US still has a LOT of power. But not for much longer, so might as well use it while we got it.
It will be an all out trade war unless Xi comes to his senses.
24
@Troutbeck
Thanks for the insights, this is among the best comments by anyone that I have seen on this issue. Most people posting seem to think that only thing that matters is cheap good from China will now cost more. They ignore the obvious that there are choices for getting cheap goods from other countries that US manufacturers will eventually outsource too. However you just outlined the larger issues of supremacy through State backed enterprises that steal technology which they then use against the companies that they steal from. It is a existential threat.
8
@Troutbeck Raise taxes...sorry tariffs, that Americans will pay, on Chinese products in America. That'll teach China how tough Trump can be! If anyone thinks that means more factory jobs in America, at high wages, they may misunderstand modern China. Good job Trump, and good job America, truly a "win" for...someone?
3
@Troutbeck
It is true China holds a lot of power and uses currency manipulation, steals IP etc. but the solution is not to punish US businesses and consumers with a trade war. US has to reduce its dependence on China, get into deals with other countries. Get China to cooperate more. Right now Trump is in a trade war with China, the EU and Canada, this is not sustainable. Markets work best if conditions are predictable. Trump is the furthest thing from predictable and that's bad for business.
5
The best way to respond to China’s dishonesty and trade predation:
1 Deny China access to the U.S. banking system and stock market if no reciprocal action is taken.
2 Sanction Chinese companies that have stolen U.S. technology
3 Refuse Chinese patent protection in the U.S. until China honors American patents.
4 Coordinate a coalition with Europe and Japan to push back.
1
@Truth without Hypocrisy
Why would Europe want to join us in any coalition?
3
He increased our deficit by 1/2 trillion a year via tax cuts to the rich and America's corporations. Meanwhile the eager increases to working people will re recovered via 50 billion in tariffs. China does not pay for the Tariffs American consumer do. All it might do to China is suppress their 7% GDP growth to 6.5 or even 6%.
14
China has been making a fortune off the USA. Enough is enough
31
And we consumers have been reaping the benefits in the form of low prices, and we will all be paying a tariff tax when we buy goods going forward. Do you think all of those consumer product industries are coming back to the US? Keep dreaming.
51
And if American manufacturers have to pay higher input costs because of tariffs how will their exports be competitive in the market.
19
@NYC Dweller
The difference in trade does not mean we pay for it unlike tariffs which we pay for.
9
Trump on American farmers: “These are great patriots. They understand that they're doing this for the country and we'll make it up to them. And in the end, they're going to be much stronger than they are right now.”
It takes years to develop strong trading partnerships. Many of these partnerships have been severed because of the trade wars.
Do you think farmers will continue to be understanding when they vote in 2020?
40
@JulieAnn - Sadly, a number of farmers will stay with Trump, doing otherwise is admitting they were lied to, etc. (As Trump talked their language, he must understood them, not.) Some would rather suffer the fate of staying, rather than admitting they were duped. That said, many will decide to vote otherwise in hopes of salvaging their livelihoods.
The severed trade partnerships may never come back, as there are other places to buy grains, meats, etc. Those countries (primarily South American) will not let go of new-found opportunities. Trump as decimated America agriculture and those fatal wounds were self-inflicted.
6
@Jaded Trader
I agree. I have seen interviewes with small farmers that plan to sell their farms because of the tariffs and then getting walloped by the floods that still support Donald Trump. Go figure!
1
"I am very happy with over $100 Billion a year in Tariffs filling U.S. coffers...great for U.S., not good for China!”
Also not good for US consumers who will actually pay for the tariffs and whose jobs and businesses will be impacted by retaliatory tariffs from China.
Add that to the existing damage to the manufacturing sector because of steel and aluminum tariffs, the looming peril of an unsigned USMCA that could lead to a catastrophic collapse of NAFTA and the lost opportunity of the retreat from TPP.
It all looks a lot like the continuation of Trump: The Art of the Deal, which was only salvaged by Russian money, according to his sons.
It would appear that Trump and his GOP enablers are following the Putin script. Create chaos, which leads to fear, and then exert authoritarian power to control the chaos.
The conventional thinking seems to be that a strong economy is good for a Trump GOP victory in 2020, but they are actually behaving in a manner likely to actually cause more economic damage and fear.
20
@Look Ahead You do realize the money is a hidden tax on American Consumers. Its effect hurts American consumers and our inflation more than China. Please please do some simple research on what a Tariff is. Hint it is a form of sales tax in the Consumer. Ignorance is not bliss it is dangerous and unhealthy.
1
All answers tangled and probably a result of each POV. Higher tariffs will increase but who pays? Walmart customers? On PBS/NPR show FRONTLINE last night, much discussed. The growth of China and the material changes to their economy, cities, exploration of new technology, rapid rail trains, electric cars: astounding. Showing Lordstown where the last Chevvy Cruze was taken off the line and the workers outside paints a bleak picture. It is difficult for me to castigate the Chinese (whom Daddy Pence calls "communists in his dithering foolish way) when their combination of socialism and markets and their new advancing of "informtechnology" is succeeding so well. Of course there are many left to the side in a country where there is much poverty and hunger. Cynically, I believe Trump just the wrong man from central casting to hold the job of president. We must show more strength,less volatility.
13
Looks like shorting stocks is profitable again and how many more Ivanka trademarks will be approved in the next month or so?
7
Why is Elon Musk criticized and fined by the SEC when he makes 'market-moving' comments regarding Tesla stock yet Trump is seemingly free to make misleading and perhaps untrue 'market-moving' comments regarding trade negotiations with China and is not subject to SEC investigation? Aren't his comments directly impacting his personal holdings ot that of his family???
50
There is no doubt that China needs to be reined in. Its modus operandi has been going on for decades. But when one bully meets another, the more experienced, the more devious will win the day. Sadly, that will be China. Trump is an amateur when it comes to the art of intrigue and when juxtaposed with this adversary of ours. I will predict that as the above's threats increase, China will dig its heels in deeper. There is one thing to be said, however, and let us remember that this falls upon recent Republican administrations as well as Democratic ones. That is that something must be done. I am tired of purchasing, with little or no alternatives, the Made in China label. But the onus not only falls upon who is in power in DC. It also falls upon this nation's wealthy entrepreneurs and industrialists who refuse to relinquish their profits via the hands of cheap labor abroad.
10
@Kathy Lollock Fine limit their imports into the US but don't tax American consumers. Encourage Wal-Mart to buy American, I suspect that might hurt their robust Chinese sales.
Limit our trade deficit with any country to 50 billion a year. After that inports stop. There are other ways to reign in the beast than taxing the American Consumer.
Be prepared for higher prices and more inflation. Trouble with Trump he want his cake and everyone else's as well.
Blind rage and threats are no way to run trade policy.
According to Wiktionary, "rein in" means "To stop or slow a horse by pulling the reins". To have US "reining in" China means it sees China either as an animal or a slave. Colonial and racist attitude is live and well.
This article heavily downplays that China has essentially reneged on all major aspects of the trade deal, and chooses instead to focus on Trump's petulance.
I'm no Trump apologist, but at least place the proper blame on China for their brazen insistence to move forward with an ineffectual deal that favors their bad trade behavior. They must be held accountable with material consequences for noncompliance.
11
@Dejected DCist, you state that China has "essentially reneged on all major aspect of the trade deal". That is what Trump and some of his administration officials have said. Are you aware of anyone who actually has some credibility and knowledge of the talks who has said that? Considering the numerous lies conveyed by this administration on a daily - I mean hourly - basis, I would not put any stock any utterances from such officials.
3
@Dejected DCist Punish them don't punish the American Consumers with a tariff. Whatever he does expect higher prices. They go hand in hand.
The SEC can impose stiff fines on CEOs for overselling the value of their companies. Yet Donnie Boy is free to spout more lies about the value of his policies? 100 billion in the coffers, really? Or is it closer to 10 billion? Or will we ever know, because Donnie Boy and his GOP crooks will claim executive privilege over this information, too?
4
Trump will be under a lot of pressure from many of his financial backers to cave on the issue of enforceability His strategy of creating a circus-like atmosphere is unlikely to impress the Chinese negotiators. They have already figured out how he negotiates.
4
Is anyone checking that the Trump family isn’t out buying stocks today? And then selling as soon as Trump announces a Trade deal with China?
7
" $100 Billion a year in Tariffs filling U.S. coffers..." money that will come directly out of the pockets of American consumers. This is taxation without representation. And where will this money end up? Where are all the "tax and spend" scolds now?
8
"I am very happy with over $100 Billion a year in Tariffs filling U.S. coffers...great for U.S., not good for China!” (quote from Trump)
That is another Trump lie!! $100 billion a year in Tariffs are from Americans. Chinese are not paying one additional cent.
Americans are paying the tariffs. NOT THE CHINESE!!!
64
@Jeff
There is a simple solution to that, American's don't buy goods from China because they are expensive. Maybe they will buy them from Vietnam or elsewhere. China is not the only producer of cheap microwaves and toys.
1
The only person ripping off America is Trump and the Republican Party. Impeachment is in order.
27
@H.A.Hyde: Are you serious? So the Chinese get a free ride in this unfair trade deal?
The United States can purchase goods from South Korea, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, and on and on.
Why allow China all the benefits?
@bobj
It would take time to set up and may not be cheaper or as good.
So much America-basing in these comments! Do you want China to roll over us? Even Schumer is behind the President on this .... Trump is doing something nobody else had the guts or insight to do - stand up for American workers. This is why we needed a business man and not another community organizer as President.
4
@SAL, businessman? The worst businessman this country has ever seen. Obama understood that using a multilateral approach such as the TPP would have a much greater effect than this bilateral tariff war. Have you even talked to farmers in the Midwest who have lost their markets? Granted Trump is employing the socialist tool of providing assistance to these farmers but these citizens want to sell their products not be wards of the state. That community organizer oversaw better job growth over his last 27 months than Trump has in first 27 months. Trump does not even understand how tariffs work or he is lying about it.
1
@SAL: Look at this from the perspective of someone outside the USA. For two generations the western world largely supported US and its' trade policies because we trusted Americans not to (economically) roll over us, just 'cause they could. But now you have a man in the White House who is perfectly happy -- in fact glories -- in twisting the arms of those who used to be America's friends and allies. That's not guts or insight -- it's just playing the bully. China or American -- it used to matter who you were dealing with. Now it's just six of one, a half-dozen of the other.
Trump the negotiator is nothing more than a bully. The Chinese will eventually eat his lunch and cause havoc to our economy. Trump is making us vulnerable and the laughing stock of the world. Time to remove trump the failure before we head into a major recession/depression.
7
Goverance, diplomacy and relationships in general are not known to thrive under constant chaos, yet such a known counter intuition is lost in the particular government we've come to expect.
An hour long conversation with a sabateur of free elections in his own country and now even numerous attempts here in the US is waved off as good diplomacy while the relationship with a trading partner is embarrassingly subject to pointed and public ridicule.
Years of efforts to put right bad environmental decisions by gov't and industry are turned back,while farmers once the backbone of an American success story go begging.
One gets the sense of an aged, impotent and embattled colassus governing thru a spaghetti on the wall theory with sporadic self indulgent acts designed to confound sensibilities or peaceful resolution, worse the sudden movments of armed forces hither and yon to provoke acts of agression and war.
How long must a country sit back and watch a march to ruin?
5
This article is just more TDS from the NYT. To say: "Mr. Trump’s Twitter taunt comes as Chinese negotiators are en route to the United States to try and salvage a trade agreement that has fallen apart in recent days. " totally ignores the fact that China renege on the commitments it made during the last trade negotiations. Every thing appeared to agreed to. Then the powers that be in China changed their minds.
The NYT should be supporting our president during his negotiations with the Chinese who have been ripping us off for years. No previous president has taken a tough stance against them. Certainly Joe Biden won't if he becomes President. In fact, he stupidly stated that China is not a big threat. Is he for real?!!
BTW, the TPP did nothing to protect US companies from IT theft.
5
More of Trump desperately trying to distract us from his criminality.
12
Based on the New York Times detailed account of how Donald Trump has lost billions of dollars with his businesses, I think China is quite alright negotiating with this buffoon who knows absolutely nothing. He's so incompetent as is his cabinet, one only has to look at what he did over the course decades and he will undo everything American's have built over 2 centuries. The problem is, China might need to play the role of Fred Trump to bail out the US from this horrible period of history.
7
He will back pedal on this like everything else. He's probably already made his pile by shorting stocks, sending the market into a tailspin, prior to making his ludicrous announcement.
6
“President Trump taunted China on Wednesday morning, saying in a tweet that Chinese negotiators were attempting to drag out trade negotiations until a “very weak” Democrat was back in the White House.”
Not even Nadler another New Yorker can beat Trump at the game. He turns a foreign trade matter into an assault on the “weak” Democrats. Xi could take lessons from him, too, in handling his own internal problems.
5
@Edward Meanwhile Chine looks for other agricultural markets to Replace America. I hope Americans like Tofu. He also forget the GOP was part of every trade treaty Americans signed and that he ripped up in ine of his childish tantrums. Sorry tantrums are not a sign of strength, the Democrats and the Chinese know this. It is sad he doesn't.
6
The recent Frontline program told the story of how Trump has remained unchanged in his trade ideas over three decades. At first, Japan was the target. Then when its economy faltered, he shifted his ire to China. Most of his ideas originate from the former Lou Dobbs Money Line program on CNN.
36
trump is uninspired and lacks basic common courtesy besides any real business acumen or diplomacy. The Chinese know all this and will largely keep to their script. I hope for an agreement that will feature solid IP protections and a further opening of the Chinese market for American goods. This is a reasonable goal for the US and one the Chinese should want to adopt as well as it is mutually beneficial and good for world trade. I believe the stock market is expecting this now, but we’ll see. Ain’t over til it is settled.
3
Are you faulting him for lack of creativity? It’s not an essay contest, you know.
The US should stand firm against mercantilist and authoritarian China. A bad deal is worse than no deal at this moment. I would rather feel personal pain in the economy than have China continue to steal our treasure in the form of theft of IP, unfair state subsidies, and espionage both in the homeland and from US companies who try to do business in China.
China joined the WTO on December 11, 2001. They've had nearly 20 years to comply and become a fair player, yet they still believe they are outside of international rules. Should we let them continue to make hollow promises or treat them as the competitor they truly are and fight for the right of US workers and a democratic rule based order to international trade? Trump is abrasive, but definitely in the right here going against China strongly.
17
@Marcin Trump made a yuge mistake by trying to take on China by himself. A smarter and more effective move was to get the EU and Japan together to force China to make concessions; instead, the US is now fighting against these three plus Canada and Mexico. The same way he bankrupted the USFL, he will bankrupt the US.
And the tariffs are being paid by the American people, not by China. What is he talking about?
8
@Marcin So you speak for all Americans. If importers replace china with other countries, what have we gained. Trump is lashing out like a mad dog instead of approaching the problem like a mature adult. As long as he wins do you think we cares of you pay. I ask you given Trump behavior why would any country negotiate a treaty with a nation who leaders rips them up in one of his frequent hissy fits.
1
American manufacturing and production will suffer greatly from a 25% tariff. We pay the tariff. The consumers and businesses who use the Chinese goods pay the tariff. This seems to be getting lost in the arguments, but virtually all US producers compete in the global market. Our companies compete with foreign producers from all over the world.
If we have to pay a tariff for Chinese materials and they do not, that gives them a tremendous price advantage. Trump is essentially pricing American producers out of the market.
The end result will be lower sales for domestic production which will lead to significant job losses. We could be talking about one million jobs or more.
86
@Bruce Rozenblit Trump nor his circus of clowns understand anything about tariffs.
13
@Bruce Rozenblit
This president and administration are tragedies. I am so saddened.
4
@Jacquie: Trump hires the worst, as long as they KA, not the best.
Midwest farmers are at the highest risk right now if no deal is immediately sealed. According to the Iowa extension service... If possible, plant corn prior to May 15 to avoid this "slippery slope" of rapidly reducing yield potential.
Midwest crops, corn, soybeans, other grains and vegetables, the big profit makers, are at major risk for crop yields failure. With the administration referring to Farmers as Patriots, willing to face a harsh battle, Farmers are really businessmen, not fooled by political rhetorics.
I remember singing “golden waves of grain”; America’s foundational natural agricultural resources seem to be headed in reverse due to the unnecessary trade war.
41
@Stuart
Trump tweet you never saw:
"Just what IS a soybean, anyway?"
3
@Stuart You said "Farmers are really businessmen, not fooled by political rhetorics." Obviously they were fooled into voting for a con man in 2016 so now they suffer the consequences.
22
@Stuart Willing to face the harsh battle as they line up hungry for more farm welfare. Maybe Trump will give one his medal of freedom as the farmer watches the banks take his farm.
4
I don't understand why the Chinese reneging on their negotiating agreement would bother Trump. Isn't this his usual method of making deals, agreeing to something and then backing out of it? He should feel right at home...
128
@Jim
Totally agree, however, he's never been taught what to do when he's played at his own game.
6
Do we appreciate the President’s demonstrated business acumen as indicated by recent income tax revelations calls this strategy into question? The President’s refusal to acknowledge the tariffs cost China nothing and that a trade deficit is not a fiscal deficit are astounding demonstrations of at best his delusion and at worst abject ignorance of international trade.
71
@Rich c
Tariffs do cost China by reducing trade and trade is profitable which is why they do it. But it costs us too. So there is a certain self defeating element here. But I hope you would agree that China’s trade cheating is a problem.
Trump is right. China was ripping us off left right and center for 8 years during the Obama presidency. And to a lesser degree, the Bush and Clinton presidencies before that.
My company was forced to enter into a JV with a Chinese company to sell into that market, and then they stole all our tech.
It’s ridiculous and Trump has been the only one strong enough to do something about it - tariffs - which have damaged the Chinese economy and forced them to the negotiating table. This is indisputable.
17
@Jay LincYou are right, IP is the one issue we should fight for. On the other hand we read over and over how US companies WILLINGLY hand over their IP just to get China market share (what did Lenin say about the capitalists and their hangman's rope?) Obama started the effort but trusted them to much. Having learned the lesson, I believe Hillary would have worked this issue better without all the bluster and collateral damage to the US economy and international partnerships from trumps slap dash trade wars.
8
@Jay Lincoln
Trump is wrong about almost everything. The policies set in place that "forced" you into a JV have been happening for decades.
American universities cater to foreign students because they pay more. Some of the students stay in the US but a lot go back to their home countries.
The Chinese model isn't anything new, and they should not be trusted but Trump and his tantrums are not helping anything.
8
@Jay Lincoln How exactly was your company forced? Most likely your company eyed the 1 billion plus potential customers in China and, after negotiations, came to an agreement. To whine about it now is a little late.
18
Well, we are certainly seeing how Trump gained a reputation as the world's greatest deal maker back in the 1980s and 1990s while at the same time he was losing billions of dollars.
95
One basic piece of data: the US represents 18% of Chinese exports. The EU does also.
By making this an exclusive deal we lost half our leverage. That was a "get out of jail free" card for the Chinese. They didn't have to worry about dividing the West, we did it.
That will affect both the terms of the deal and the level of compliance.
38
So Trump is not only a Russian and North Korean asset, but also a Chinese asset?
It seems he's everyone's asset except one to his own country.
The bully in the China shop. You break it you own it. Trump needs to be prepared to pay for what he breaks.
26
This is a very complex issue however my guess is this hurts us more than them. That said whenever trump talks about trade his base goes nuts cheering so I guess they like paying more and making less as in the farm belt. So be it, well see how the rest of America feels very soon.
37
@Thomas Renner
The base seems unaware that it is they who are filling the tariff coffers , not the Chinese. Its the Walmart types.
52
Won't it be wonderful when we have a president who behaves like a civil adult and can communicate with respectful intelligence instead of a spoiled brat throwing hissy fits?
163
@Panthiest
Without Wal*Mart, these people would be back to riding bicycles to work in rice paddies.
As of right now, the US Trade Rep announced officially in the Federal Registry, that the duty on China ‘List 3’ products (the list that came effective September 2018), will be raised from additional 10% to additional 25%.
It’s done.
I’ve spent the morning explaining to my clients what this means, and it has not been received with any happiness at all.
However many people get upset, this is a huge money maker now for the government, a Google search can tell you how much. There is no way they will roll this back now.
I can definitely see China hoping for a Democrat that they can manipulate into rolling this back, because for the time being this cash flow will not be done away at any time in the near future.
Before the ‘you’re a dumb know nothing Trump acolyte’ comments start, I have been in the import industry for 20+ years, I manage an import brokerage company, this is my day to day business. If I tell you it’s happening, it’s because it is.
9
@AutumnLeaf I've been in the business 40+ years, so I agree there is not much clarity. I would add, however, that it is we the consumer & business person who have been paying. Now we shall see what both China & other affected countries will do. We don't want the Hawley-Smoot affect do we?
14
@AutumnLeaf Unfortunately, that money is coming from American consumers who must pay the tariff premium on Chinese goods. The Chinese may not like tariffs because they decrease sales, but they are most certainly NOT paying the tariffs. We are.
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@AutumnLeaf Your being in the industry does not make you believable. Sorry. Give us links to peer reviewed adata that reveals whether the true impact of these tariffs. What are the monthly tariff revenues to the treasury? Now how much money has been lost to Treasure because of the Tariffs? My wild speculation is that you have spent more time fantasizing about China hoping for a Dem than you have looking for or looking at the industry data on the net effects of the Tariffs.
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Is "taunting" part of the Art of the Deal? Just asking for a friend.
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@Andrew
Yes, but usually it comes after the bankruptcy court tells your creditors to pound sand.
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@Andrew No it is theatrics for Trumpers ,his base, they eat up this nonsense. It is their Mana from their new god, Donald. The rest of the country's reward; 40 years in a desert.
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When will the media explain to the US public that China is not paying the tariffs, we are?
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@John, this information has been made. It's one thing to make something available; another to receive and understand.
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@John
If tariffs of 25% are imposed on all Chinese exports to the US, which is what Trump threatens, then the point will become self evident even to the dullest.
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@John Your point is well taken. Outside of the NYT demographic, the public needs, explicitly, to know who will pays the tax because I am already hearing from people that China is paying this tax.
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Threats, cajoling and embarrassment along with telling whoppers are negotiating tactics.
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American farm Income is down by 40% since Trump took office.
Eight Dept. of Agriculture economists were fired because they refused to cook the numbers on Trump's failed tariffs.
“There’s a lot of feeling in farm country we’re being used as pawns in this whole business,” Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.).
The midwest is officially open for business, should the Democrats want to set up shop.
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@MarcosDean Perhaps American farmers are simply experiencing the logical consequences of their overwhelming support for Trump. It is ironic that farmers now complain about tariffs and labor shortages after they allowed their prejudices to trump their business interests.
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@MarcosDean
From your mouth to Dems ears!!! Come Dems - listen, learn and start winning. Please!
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@Gleason. Plus the "bootstrap" rugged individualists, already supported by myriad government subsidies, are enjoying an additional $12 billion in welfare provided by blue states. (Direct buy off by bomb thrower in-chief).
Moochers!
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Of course we will lose this trade war. Think about it. The Chinese sell us goods that we buy because they are cheap. They buy from us (other than food) expensive high-dollar items, like Cadillacs, etc. We can afford a 25% rise on prices. A $10 sweatshirt will now be $12.50, no big deal. Check out the American companies that are producing clothing in the U.S. $80 sweatshirts, $150 flannel shirts.The Chinese, however, won't accept 25% on already expensive items.
We are also asking them to something we refuse to do. Change laws within their country on businesses.
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@RAH
Perhaps paying @12.50 for a $10 sweatshirt is no big deal to you, but for families on low incomes with or without children, it becomes a big deal.
@RAH:
Patriot Made in USA goods are sold at a premium, but quality is not necessarily better than China made, and at times worse. They put a flag on it and charge you more.
Only competition keeps people honest.
Every Chinese were taught at their young ages that their Government signed many so called "unequal" agreements, at the end of 19th century or early 20th century, which they were not obliged to abide as they were forced to sign and thus unequal. I am sure every official in LIU He's team has this thought in their mind on their trip to US right now.
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@Jing Zhou Exactly right!
@Jing Zhou:
The treaties were unequal. Not only Chinese, ask the others.
President Obama handed Trump, pre-made with a lot of hard work, a perfect way to manage the threat of Chinese misbehavior: the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Trump withdrew from it and in doing so, he did a huge disservice to the country.
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@Jim Houghton
Obama DID hand down a completed Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA), which destroyed the lives of agricultural workers in Central America sending over 1 million economic migrants a year to our southern border. Thanks Obama!
This on top of the Clinton Administrator admitting China to the WTO, which cost between 3 million and 5 million US jobs. Thanks Clinton!
And the TPP would have just shipped millions more US jobs to East Asia, even if not China.
Bring the supply chains home!
Employ American workers at fair wages and under fair conditions!
Goods should include the cost of environmental impacts. Cheap goods from China = a Dirty Planet.
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@Frank
Yeah, and when we do that the same people who support Trump will start yowling about how much things cost, opposing trade unions and still vote Republican. And their hero is doing about all there is to be done to destroy environmental protections in this country. Yet they vote for him because they can puff out their chest and feel tough. Unbelievable.
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Unfortunately the Bernie Bros bullied Hillary into changing her position on TPP too. So it had no chance. Too much misinformation on both sides that time.
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God willing, we’ll have a “very weak Democrat” in office soon to end the incompetence and malfeasance of the worst presidential administration in American history.
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