And when another centrist (Biden or one of the others) predictably loses to Trump in 2020 we will once again be told that the left is somehow responsible. Rinse, repeat.
58
The biggest problem in "American electoral politics" may be that it "has become purely expressive: how much do I identify with my candidate? How much do I hate yours?"
A faux civil war mentality divides many "activists" from caricatured bogeyman on the other side. (The Democratic Party was long the "good cop," and offered most people nothing but less risk). When candidates claim to be a movement, like Sanders and Obama, one more veil of obscurantism is thrown over our political landscape.
One thing that a social democratic not-quite revolution through electoral means might do is figure out how to create a less hopelessly capitalist political system.
Ours is based on interest and funding. Candidates are celebrities representing persons, not ideas. Non-profit organizations with great causes lobby. They draw "activists" and with single-issue group causes pull people into public demonstrations, which demonstrate the (absolute, implacable) will of many persons. Everyone wants to win and not lose for their group, and defeat their foes. This results in identity politics and hyper-militancy with inflated rhetoric.
And life here is so tough, we too are oppressed.
Interest groups may represent capital. Labor unions once formed part of this scheme. Politicians, wanting votes, must please interests. Districts, gerrymandered, elect politicians based on a match of personalities and identity.
That's creeping fascism. So let's remake our democracy!
12
"His proposals are good and have agenda-setting strength."
No they aren't. That stuff plays on the NY Times and on college campuses, elsewhere not nearly as well.
26
“The question extends beyond Sanders. Democratic constituencies competing to pick a candidate to square off against Trump next year face a difficult-to-resolve problem. Will they find themselves flying blind, entangled in a cause more than a campaign as they leave too much of the middle-of-the-road electorate behind?”
The corporate backed republican lite folks are really worried about people who don’t take massive funding from big money instead of grass roots.
Why not simply show the grass roots donations compared to the donate so we know who is representing who here.
9
You know, what concerns me is the stuff like this looooong article of opinions from individuals who are mired in the politics and visions of 1900 hundreds being put forward by a decent enough person such as Edsall who is himself deeply out of sync with the evolution of awareness that is being manifested in the explosions of honest to god LIBERAL thought in the last 20 years. They do not help. They engender fear and uncertainty in the comfortable. The advice and halfway policy measures of the "careful, do not upset the comfortable ones" of the so called leaders of the party are an actually bigger problem than trump's base which we can easily vote away.
These folks (all good people such a N. Pelosi) are not leaders. they are going around in circles. We cannot afford to do that anymore. Time is running out on a lot of fronts of which the environment is only one. The distribution of life energy or wealth which gives 1% of the wealth to about 85% of the people is totally unsustainable.
There are almost 8 billion people on the planet. Bernie is, as are several other real leaders, simply putting out 20th century IDEAS.
The "old system of capitalism for the rich and poverty for everyone else does not has worked. Time to get some new shoes for Humanity.
19
Sanders should use the term progressive capitalism. Socialism is a word that scares some people because they don't really know what it means.
19
The most interesting item I learned from this article was from the reader response:
NY Times readers are far further to the left than average
Americans.
This may come to a surprise to Mr. Edsall. Or not.
9
Liberals make up a mere 25% of the electorate, and you want to push a progressive who will split the ticket and who either wouldn't win, or if he did, would be voted out by a backlash in four years? It is political suicide. Now what I would like to see is a true Republican challenger to Trump who can do the same for the other side. There's a goldmine of information to weaponize against Trump, and I find it incredulous that no serious candidate has stepped up to the plate!
6
I'm not scared! What I'm seeing are voices that have been muted given an opportunity to be heard. Bernie, AOC, and other Democrats represent real people for whom "socialism" resonates. The "leaders" of the Democratic Party are part of the problem. They are comfortable with the status quo. Oh, crazy Trump presidency doesn't offer the wake up call to business as usual. It should. Many Americans are disillusioned by "working hard to get ahead" while the privileged continue to grasp more and more. One thing that is evident to me is the insatiable desire for more wealth, more privilege, more prestige at the cost of the middle class. Time's up as far as I'm concerned.
19
The point of this article was not to bash Bernie, but to point out both strengths and vulnerabilities in the general election.
I have no problem with Bernie's policies, unless he is too rigid about instant Medicare for all.
But Elizabeth Warren is head and shoulders ABOVE Bernie on depth and specificity of policy proposals and on experience getting things done that would translate into actually pragmatic governing. Her superb teaching skills show that she will do a superb job using the "bully pulpit" of the Presidency to elevate public understanding of issues.
Bernie has done a great job firing up the progressive base and pulling the Dem party to the left, which I applaud. He did a wonderful job at the Fox town hall.
BUT he appears to have ZERO loyalty to the Democratic party to support Dems running in districts that are not already at the left end of the Dem party.
He feels ultra entitled to swoop in and exploit the Dem party's space to run for President. His support of Hillary was grudging. I personally know many of his supporters who believed everything the RWNJs said about Hillary and voted DJT or J Stein. I believe they helped Trump win.
Now I hear that shocking numbers of his supporters say they would vote for Trump over ELIZABETH WARREN if Bernie loses the primary!!! What is going on? Is this the Russian trolls back at work?
I supported Bernie in the last primary, but he is my last choice this time because of the above.
14
Perhaps some one percenters are frightened. He excites millions more, though. I dare say, the majority of Americans.
18
Who would be so arrogant and pompous as Sanders is to think he DESERVED the nomination of a party he has never belonged to his whole life? Oh, wait....Demagogues' personalities don't differ all that much, do they?
15
I am a life-long Democrat. I think Trump is destroying the American Republic. Listen up: Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. I won't support him and I won't vote for him. He will lose and AMERICA LOSES ITS REPUBLIC THE SAME AS IF TRUMP IS RE-ELECTED.
14
Evening the playing field and having the 1% pay their share and stopping pure unadulterated corruption by the government (particularly the GOP) is not Socialism!
20
Sometimes it is the middle which will not hold.
13
This is precisely why I felt strongly that, for the good of the country, Sanders and Hillary BOTH needed to give way to fresh blood for 2020. There is still too much bitterness between the two camps and the party needed an opportunity to unite around a candidate that isn’t so reviled by the other side. It’s sad and is likely to result in Trump’s re-election.
We’ll see if Sanders continues to be the “most popular politician in America” after he hits the same buzzsaw of Republican smears, lies and Russian propaganda (targeted to Bernie and Trump supporters alike, apparently) that Clinton did. Her numbers were in the 80s before she ran for president. On the plus side, he’s not going to face the misogyny that the female candidates and the racism the minority candidates will face, so there’s that.
6
Democrats always move to the right once they’re in the White House. Republicans do, too.
6
A 77-year-old man with an ego so big that he believes he can and should run the country -- that is sufficiently problematic.
15
Sanders’ candidacy is doomed. His advocacy for voting rights for the Boston Marathon bomber and all imprisoned felons will spread and dog him throughout the campaign until he is forced to withdraw.
It doesn’t matter what other countries do. It doesn’t matter what his good intentions were. This is so definitive, so incredibly tone deaf, so Dukakis-like that he is just over, finished, done.
16
Oh what about the poor moderates alone in the wind with nobody to care about them. no road to tread? Why don’t we just make a Broadway musical about it and call it a day? Once they have health care, and planes that can fly they can make a new political party, even call themselves moderately unsocial democrats. Have a ball.
6
Hilarious. 2020 Sanders/Trump will make the 1972 McGovern/Nixon blowout look like a close race.
13
I do wish Bernie described himself as a “Social Democrat” and not a “Democratic Socialist” because what he is promoting is really not “socialism” at all, but heavily regulated capitalism. The right will smear him as a communist and Marxist no matter what he describes himself as but it would probably help with some on the left who are turned off by the “socialist” label.
11
hahahahaha! sanders has 'baggage'? doubts about his ability to 'win'? he seemed to be doing pretty well last time until the democratic leadership chose to play dirty and sabotage his campaign.
all this from the party who puts forward cookie-cutter candidates and expects to win! the democratic party is truly a farce...
let them vote for...joe biden and see what happens!
19
Come on people - yesterday Sanders announced that incarcerated felons, including the surviving Boston Marathon bomber, should be allowed to vote. Trump is blasting this all over his Twitter feed to his 59 million followers. Bernie will never escape the “radical” designation and he will never win.
13
So the NY Times is already starting on the anti-Sanders hit pieces. His "lifestyle" 50 years ago? Give us a break. He had a child out of wedlock decades ago? So what. His writings from however long ago? He has shown himself to be a reasonable, capable, straight-talking elected official for decades with ideas that resonate with the bulk of the electorate. He has been a fighter and many of us will give him fair consideration.
Instead of handicapping the race with a thumb on the scale in favor of the Democratic party establishment, fearful that he won't appeal to every stereotyped demographic group in this large country, how about some honest, thoughtful writing?
25
This piece claims that Sanders "carries a lot of baggage," but a lot of what it cites are very old incidents that sound extremely inconsequential. Half a century ago, when he couldn't pay the electric bill, he plugged extension cords into his landlord's outlets? I think that may not be the wildest thing many people did when they were young. (Obama did cocaine, and he still got elected President.) And in 2019, is it really worth even mentioning that he has been married twice and fathered a son with a third woman? Word has it that our current President has a bit of a checkered past in this area, so I'd hardly call this a liability for Sanders. As for his overall electability, he did better in polls against Trump in 2016 than Clinton. I'm not sure who I'm supporting yet for 2020 but this article seems like an attempt to dredge up every possible reason to worry about Sanders, no matter how silly.
14
Oh God, Bernie. Go home. You’re too old. Too far left. I’m a Democrat and I sure wouldn’t vote for you. I can’t stand seeing you, with that finger of yours pointing and jabbing. Time to give some of the other candidates a chance. Please just withdraw gracefully.
16
sanders hurt hillary badly and helped trump. he is an egotistical old man who has accomplished nothing in all his years in the senate. DO NOT LET HIM HURT THE DEMS IN 202O like he did in 2016.:I am not in to conspiracy theories, but if I were I would think the Russians planted him...
11
Yeah, Bernie SCARES me -- BECAUSE HE WOULD HELP THE REPUBLICANS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Proof.
During his primary with Hillary -- Republican were secretly advertising for Bernie -- touting how he wanted to give free benefits for tuition and healthcare.
But! Their ads left off Sander's plan also called for higher taxes. And Bernie wasn't mentioning this in his speeches.
So:
An MSN statistical survey of Sanders supporters informed them, how Sander’s actual tax plan called (for the math to work) a person making $50K a year must pay an additional $6K in taxes . ***Fully 2/3s of Sander's voters said THIS was unacceptable if their taxes went up too.***
In other words, the Republicans knew they were setting up Sanders to fail -- for all they had to do was follow up and advertise how Sander’s plan would raise THEIR taxes too. Add to this they could put out SCARES of Bernie being a socialist and losing jobs.
Ultimately it will be the Independents (neither Democrats nor Republicans) who swing the final vote on election day. Liberals only make up 20% of the population.
Independents typically don't vote in high numbers during primaries, but show up on election day.
So let's face it -- Republican strategists are SMART.
And it looks like Bernie is happy to be a "GIFT" once again to Republicans!
6
Who can go toe to toe with Putin? And deal with building sustainable economies, immigration, healthcare, a livable wage, Trump fallout, and put in a dynamite cabinet full of experts (many of them running along with her in 2020)?
Senator and former Attorney General of California (kind of big state!!)
Kamala Harris
4
The neoliberals are so desperate to find anything to discredit Bernie with, that they attack his family and concern troll about how social moderates might view a son born out of wedlock. Apparently they're suffering so heavily from Bernie derangement syndrome, that they forgot our president paid a pornstar for sex, allegedly abused his first wife, and is good friends with Jeffrey Epstein.
17
Democrats are worried because they might finally be forced to “walk their talk” in a real and meaningful way. They are worried because Bernie represents integrity and he actually represents ordinary Americans, and doesn’t just give it lip service, and he doesn’t con and play ordinary Americans for fools like the Republicans.
12
In 2016 I didn't vote for any of them. Not Sanders, not HRC, certainly not trumpf, nor Jill Stein (who's she?). What's so scary about the word socialism? It's looking out for the PEOPLE. Social, get it? SOCIALISM IS NOT GREEDY COMMUNISM. Perhaps if it wasn't run by greedy old white men, or "corporations which are people" or in America, we wouldn't be so afraid of the word. Young people: carry on and beware of the lies!
6
I found a much better analysis of Bernie Sanders and his career as a mayor in Burlington, Vt, congressperson, and senator in an article by Vox. I encourage people to read it: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/24/18510756/bernie-sanders-2020-democrats-neoliberals-chill
4
Socialist regimes “from Cuba to the eastern bloc have been disastrous both for economic prosperity and individual freedom.”
Wrong. I used to see life in Eastern Europe under communists. To compare than with life in Northern America now:
1. There was no homelessness - at all. Downtown was not stinking with bodies of the homeless, and street were not full of mad men.
2. Incomparably lower crime rates.
3. Incomparably better school education.
4. No drugs, no prostitution.
5.Marriage was not built upon income standing of either bride or bridegroom. Convenience marriages were regarded as immoral.
6. People in conversation more sophisticated.
7. Neither slums nor ghettos.
8. No hungry people.
9. Corruption at the time was a joke compared to what happening here.
10. Free higher education.
Just compare. I knew a family - both parents were dipsomaniacs and unemployed. If living in North of America they would end up homeless with their only daughter becoming junkie and prostitute. But no-she was the best student at school, the curriculum of the latter would rather correspond to that of a first/second year in college in America.
Economic slave cannot be a free man. Without some state guarantees Man is unfree.
Right for life and housing should be guaranteed by constitution.
10
I see the Sanderistas are here in force. Remember 26% would vote for trump over Warren. Isn't that really all you need to know?
5
Sanders and Biden are geezers. If either are elected they will be over 80 years old when their term is over and both could well suffer from at least mild dementia as did our last geriatric president i.e., Ronald Regan. With a veritable slew of capable and thoughtful Democrat candidates we can do better than the aforementioned grey beards who will likely need afternoon naps, decaffeinated coffee and a geriatrician for a personal physician.
4
I'll bet Edsall scares a lot of people--a few of them Democrats.
This is indictment/trial by journalism.
"Scares"? Why? Are they phobic?
"a lot"--how many is that?
"a few Dems"--how many is a few?
Put it another way--how many counter examples refute "a lot"?
How many refute "a few" ?
Intro logic stuff.
5
Dear New York Times: I understand you have important things to say - and most of the time I savor NYT's intelligent contributions toward the goal of making our world a more informed place. But, come on already! Consider condensing your articles. Fewer words! Whenever you do, more of your subscribers will read and comment . . .
1
There's no charm to Bernie. Why should I support an angry white man? We already have one in the White House.
4
I’m so tired of arrogant old white male politicians having so much power over our increasingly diverse US population. It’s just stupid, pathetic, really, and no way forward in such challenging times. (PS- While I’m not particularly arrogant, I am not that young, I am male, and I’m 99.5% Caucasian, so I feel within my rights to both oversimplify things a tiny bit and to criticize my own demographic)
5
If the NY Times ever runs an article on Bernie Sanders *not* dissing him, that will be news.
20
Nice attempt at a smear job in the guise of "analysis." No one cares about Bernie's personal life in the 1970s. Did you notice that America elected a President who has been married 3 times, boasts about groping women and allegedly raped one of his wives and told another to get an abortion? And yet you make the laughable claim that some will be put off by a "child out of wedlock."
17
Nominate Biden, reelect Trump!
Yay?
6
Communism is proven not to work. Hello Venezuala.
3
Sanders is simply the liberal's angry white guy. It took him four years to come up with policy prescriptions. He's the wacky uncle who over-stays his welcome.
10
"Bernie is the only Democrat who can beat Trump."
"Bernie is the only Democrat who can lose to Trump."
People, instead of just bloviating, you need to donate money to your favored candidate(s) and work for them in the Democratic presidential primaries. But most of you are too lazy to do that.
And some of you, those who like Sanders and those who dislike him, are too lazy even to vote in your state or territory's primary or caucus.
The person who wins the Democratic nomination will be the one that managed to get the most delegates through the contributions of his or her supporters.
Writing comments doesn't count.
1
Sanders would be great for america but a short conversation with the average American , never mind the MAGAs , shows that the people do not have a clue about what socialism is . As a matter of fact , a short conversation with most people show how out of the loop most americans are in just about every cognitive area . It’s really scary .
6
Sanders against Trump Let the Civil war begin
An Army of Trump invades a Sander's and the great war begins
All that must be done is prevent both from having Heart attacks
2
Bernie and Elizabeth do not scare me. They are recognizing the extreme up hill battle Americans are facing. Student loan debt (when all is said and done I will pay a half of a million dollars), unaffordable health care, child care...THE LIST GOES ON! These essentials need to be fixed. The fact that this is going to be a group effort isn’t frightening at all, it is realistic! There are currently a few supporting many. This is crippling.
17
I am stunned that the NYT would confuse socialism with communism. Cuba is NOT a socialist nation. It is one of the few Communist countries in the world. Please have responsible authorities review the work to avoid such grievous errors. Sanders has some good ideas. Notably, unfettered capitalism is not working. Unfortunately, the word socialism has been used as an attack word by conservatives interchangeably with communism since the early 1900s. Every pro-worker policy ever proposed has been attacked by the wealthy corporate capitalists as socialism - Child labor laws, minimum wage, environmental protection, universal healthcare, social security.., the list goes on. Communism has proven to be a disaster. Democratic Socialism or progressive capitalism does work. Sanders policies are more in line with Nordic policies that have been shown to be effective for business and for the wellbeing and happiness of their people. Nothing is perfect but we are now a declining nation with many frustrated people. Our suicide rates are soaring. Our opioid use is an epidemic with wide consequences. Our health and wellbeing are below many other industrialized nations even though we spend more than other nations on healthcare per capita. Our murder and violence rates are dramatically higher than other industrialized nations. On every measure we are not doing well for the average person. A new president is needed. Any Democrat with character who can beat Trump is my choice.
16
I would vote for Bernie if Trump were the other option. That said, he has become too much like Trump for me in that he's playing populist card after populist card. Bernie is the much, much better man but, like the Donald, he wants to be and individual savior, not part of a messy old process.
7
Dear Mr. Edsall,
As someone who read your articles in The Atlantic back in the 80s I'd never had thought you'd continually do the hit pieces on Bernie that you have over the last few years; I'd have thought you'd be a supporter. It's really quite astounding, but I'm sure the Trump team will appreciate your doing the oppo research for them.
23
Bernie Sanders is a lone wolf and proud of it. Over 30 years in Congress and his legislative legacy consists of three post office name changes. In one debate, he lied about his YEA vote on the Congressional resolution for Libyan regime change, while he villified Clinton for the resolution who was SOS, not in Congress. Sanders lied in a debate about his YEA vote on the 1994 Federal Crime Bill. He accused the Clintons of being involved with the Panama Papers scandal, and they were not. He accused Clinton of taking money (less than $500,000) from the fossil fuel industry when the contributors were employees who, like every other donor, are required to report their employment. Meanwhile, Sanders owned mutual funds that included fossil fuel companies. Sanders railed against TARP, the "big bank" bailout that actually made loans to 900 separate financial and mortgage organizations. TARP kept the global economy from tanking and has resulted thus far in a $107 Billion profit for the Federal government. Will the Sanders supporters EVER vet him? EVER check on his statements or run the math of his proposals.
8
Democrats should take Sanders very seriously. He has a large core of supporters and small donors from the last campaign who will not desert him and if he begins to pile up pluralities and is denied the nomination the split will result in poor turnout and possible third candidacies. Can he win? I'll have that answer in November of 2020, not before. Every candidate in the Democratic field has strengths and weaknesses. I don't see an Obama, RFK or FDR among them.
7
Sanders has been mayor of Burlington, VT., has served in the House, and is now serving in the Senate. In other words he has an extensive record serving in government. Yet, this piece doesn't provide one hint of what he accomplished, how he voted, what his record was and is like in government. We only get opinions from so-called experts, who probably know little more than the average voter. Why not look at how he voted on bills in the House and the Senate? Why not look at how he governed as mayor of Burlington? This reads like a hit-piece to me.
One thing I know is that this country is desperate for progressive change, change that will shift the balance of power back from the 1% and corporate CEOs to the average American. There is no better person to bring about such change as Bernie Sanders. He will not do it alone. He will do it with the help of a Democratic Congress, and you can be sure that that Congress will examine policy from every angle possible before passing progressive bills.
Bernie is being attacked because he is the next great president, the next FDR. He is exactly what this country needs in 2020.
31
Burlington had a population of 28,000 when Sanders was mayor, his first stable job at age 40. Bernie Sanders is a lone wolf and proud of it. Over 30 years in Congress and his legislative legacy consists of three post office name changes. In one debate, he lied about his YEA vote on the Congressional resolution for Libyan regime change, while he villified Clinton for the resolution who was SOS, not in Congress. Sanders lied in a debate about his YEA vote on the 1994 Federal Crime Bill. He accused the Clintons of being involved with the Panama Papers scandal, and they were not. He accused Clinton of taking money (less than $500,000) from the fossil fuel industry when the contributors were employees who, like every other donor, are required to report their employment. Meanwhile, Sanders owned mutual funds that included fossil fuel companies. Sanders railed against TARP, the "big bank" bailout that actually made loans to 900 separate financial and mortgage organizations. TARP kept the global economy from tanking and has resulted thus far in a $107 Billion profit for the Federal government. Will the Sanders supporters EVER vet him? EVER check on his statements or run the math of his proposals.
11
Bernie Sanders scares establishment Democrats most of whom are poor at political analysis.
The Clintonian “New Democrat” era is over. Thanks to liberal activists and intellectuals, our government’s nearly 40-year embrace of supply-side economic theory has been discredited and in an overwhelming manner that has proved comprehensible to the regular working Americans who have been left behind in this 1% economy.
Sanders's remarkable salesmanship of the progressive agenda in the 2016 presidential primary process contributed mightily to our education. Our economy needs fixing and a radical liberal one at that.
I will conclude this endorsement of Sanders’s candidacy by reminding moderate Democrats that moderate Hillary Clinton lost the following traditionally solid-blue industrial states to the novice Trump by less than 2 points: Pa., Mi., Wi. These states total 46 electoral votes, what would have been the winning margin for Clinton. Sanders will easily out-perform Hillary in these states.
Hillary also lost Florida’s 29 electoral votes by a fraction over 1 percent. Sanders will also be competitive in two Midwestern states that Trump trounced Hillary in, Ohio and Iowa. These two states total 24 electoral votes.
23
In this increasingly complex world the candidate that explains what path we need to follow in a simple fashion will win. Trump did this only because his mind is literally simple along with his language skills. On the democrat side Bernie explains things with common sense. It's hard to argue against common sense and political ideals that would be considered centrist in Europe.
While I don't mind Biden, the right what nothing to do with the Obama era.
7
Your words matter. It’s the Democratic side, not the Democrat side.
2
In my mind one of the most appealing pairings of all would be Washington Governor Jay Inslee at the top of the ticket and Elizabeth Warren in the VP.
The arrangement is not sexist; Inslee has two successful terms under his belt as a the chief executive of a large state government (He's also a seven term congressman and former regional administrator in the Clinton Administration). Warren is the perfect combination of policy ideas and populist fire.
We need to win in the short term...and we must prevail in the long haul. It would certainly make Warren the first female president with the added executive experience.
3
I've worked with Ralph Nader, AFSCME and the AFL-CIO and, while there is much that Bernie says that appeals to me and many labor union and consumer progressives, Tom Edsall makes all the right points to convince me and anyone who is determined to beat Donald Trump in 2020 that Bernie must not be the Democratic nominee.
Trump, Wall Street and their big business donors, together with Fox News would have a field day attacking Sanders as a socialist, a life-long, lefty who doesn't understand business and is out of step with most Americans.
With so much at stake in 2020, Democrats can't run the risk of running someone who's a good man and gives great speeches, but hasn't a prayer of winning the White House.
6
Who cares what Fox News says? Their audience does not vote for Democrats ever.
5
@robmcgarrah-Fox news tried last week when Bernie appeared and failed miserably, the audience raved and cheered him. Didn't you watch it? So, Fox News is irrelevant.
3
America's social safety and support systems should be less involved in profitably managing people. We may need not state control of the economy (not in the offing), but a state that fully belongs to its people.
A democratic socialist society would be one with an active citizenship. People would not just be human capital to be profited from. Americans, especially the poor, will often argue with each other (sometimes, rarely, with violence), but know they cannot do so in any public setting.
You cannot argue with a boss, or an employee of any institution. Successful people manage instead with social grace. What should be said may be implied; you must figure it out. Few recognize how different would be everyday life in a society that chooses to be truly democratic.
Our political institutions instantiate capitalist democracy. This is a society with freedom for everyone to pursue self-interest. You can say what you like because it has no import, unless you have power or money and so the freedom to decide and act. So we have liberty, but not socially, or in speech; only a democratic society will also be free in that sense.
In Western European countries like France, where I recently lived, the state, whose basis is the educational system (not, as here, the military), is large, though it does not run the economy. But people believe in it. Not even the poor feel oppressed by it in the way they are here.
Socialize the economy? Democratize the state!
5
Joe Biden actually scares a lot of Democrats too. But that is never a question asked about old centrists.
22
I feel uplifted EVERY TIME Bernie's on TV, or pictured against a beautiful blue sky telling it like it is.
Sigh!
19
There is a kind of comment that is made by Bernie supporters that I call – Our Bernie Ourselves. An outpouring of outrage at the injured innocence of their deity. Let us review some these posts:
1. These economists are elitists / conservative / wrong and these people did not warn us of the 2008 crisis.
2. Technocrats, economists and specialists all side against Bernie, because they have done well for themselves while Bernie alone understands the pain of the forgotten Joe Six Pack.
3. Main Stream Media is wrong because what Bernie proposes has been achieved in Scandinavia.
In response:
1. No, not one of the economists cited here is a conservative. And yes, they had all – at various times – warned about the asset bubble of 2008 band unsustainable leveraged growth of banks.
2. Why technocrats say what they do is simply not relevant. What matters is what evidence they can marshal and if they have a record of scholarship (their technocratic credentials). And what the common man wants or feels will not make Bernie’s economics any more possible than desire of devout Christians to make the geocentric theory true.
3. Scandinavia did not arrive at its policies overnight. Denmark, Norway and Sweden started in small incremental measures from around 1952 reaching the current state in over 50 years.
For the Our Bernie Ourselves crowd, I’d have this question: Do you sometimes worry that Bernie Sanders will be the man most responsible for electing Donald Trump to the WH, twice?
11
@Suresh Karathinnai You left out one: People also said Trump was not electable in 2016.
Response:?
4
From skimming the comments, two takeaways about Bernie supporters: a) they are very angry at the Democratic Party, and b) they fervently support Bernie's ideas.
OK.
Bernie is not a Democrat. Even at this moment, if you look him up on the official Senate.gov site, he is listed as an Independent. Of course, he did not have strong support from the DNC. Who he did have strong support from was Putin. His name appears more than once in the Mueller Report including the WikiLeaks intention to foment conflict between Bernie and Hillary followers. Goal achieved. An analysis has shown that Bernie supporters who went to Trump (about 12%) believed at least two of the smears about Hillary.
The NRA was his strongest supporter for his early campaigns. He voted multiple times against the Brady Bill. This is his on-the-record history.
Bernie does not have a monopoly on ideas these days. Many of the other (younger) candidates also have good ideas. Bernie did not really lay out any programs to support his ideas in the past. He accomplished next to nothing in all his years in Congress apart.
Bernie only had 37% of the women's vote in 2016, and far less of minority vote. Hillary won the primary by millions. About 25% of Bernie followers before did not vote for her but instead split their votes or stayed home, giving Trump the presidency.
There are numerous excellent younger candidates who deserve a chance.
18
The proof is in the pudding.
In elections, it is the votes one gets that is the pudding. The votes come from a variety of factors, the voters' perceived needs, the campaign technology and discipline, the candidate and his persuasive abilities, the psychographic profile of the voters, and the strategies and characteristics of the opposing candidate. I undoubtedly missed some.
The genius of Bernie Sanders is that his solitary and grandfatherly image defangs the wolf image of socialism. He is not a bunch of armed Bolsheviks seeking to seize the Kerensky treasury.
If Sanders can provide an easily understandable road map to single payer and universal health insurance and do the same with several other issues, he may well be the de facto candidate of choice and presidential winner.
Consultants, academics, and pundits, other politicians need not have the their intangible fingers on the pulse of the body politic. They may see or feel the risk but not the opportunity.
13
@Bohdan A Oryshkevich, MD, MPH
well, they certainly did not find the pulse of the electorate the last time around. one would think they would be chastised and a bit humbled, but it doesn't seem so...
11
We should all understand that "Democratic (Party) operatives" who express concern about Sanders succumbing to Trump in a general election may still be licking their wounds from a) having opposed Sanders in 2016 primaries and b) having completely bolixed Clinton's campaign against Trump. I am just as skeptical of their objections today as I was in 2016 when Mrs. Clinton not only had been ordained the standard-bearer for the Democratic Party but acted out of a sense of entitlement and complete lack of concern about Trump's appeal, which appeal, frankly, I still don't get.
And, all that stuff about him living with friends when he got booted from his apartment, something I did not know, has a certain cache' against the conceit and narcissism of the rich dudes who now seem to control politics and think they're entitled to that, too.
21
Bernie is excellent when discussing the issues, and I believe a clear majority of Americans agree with him on most. However, he's never experienced the Republican smear machine we're going to see in 2020 and although Bernie will try and try, keeping this on the issues will be very difficult. I think and hope Bernie could defeat Trump anyway, but I believe we have other candidates who will be far more difficult to effectively smear. If we got Bernie's basic issues without the socialist label and the kinds of baggage/tidbits found in this story we'd stand a better chance.
Regardless of anyone's opinion here, it's clear Bernie is for real in 2020 and he'll have a good 20-25% in every primary. There is at least a decent chance he'll be the nominee and if so, all of us must unite behind him. The alternative of another Trump term is too catastrophic to contemplate.
9
I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primaries.
I will not next year.
I cannot see how he can win against Trump. He has too much ideological definition baggage. Look how Faux and all the right wing noise machine has latched onto socialism. Boo!
Sadly, other nations do exactly what he proposes. Those who say we can't afford decent health care for all or free public college education are by implication saying those Western European countries are smarter than we are.
Well, maybe...........
1
Three years after the stunner, it's even more clear that IMMIGRATION is animating the current political climate. This isn't a blip. A critical mass of Americans has emerged that wants the brakes applied, and that includes not just right-wing nativists, but Dem labor, too. And the response from the Democratic Party? Try again to cobble enough votes together from the low-rent-legal-weed-me-too progressives, while at the same time insult and dismiss any immigration concerns. As someone who is afraid of the direction of the Supreme Court, yeah, I'm a little nervous.
9
Democrats- Sanders is what you get for putting an anti union former Walmart board member whose husband expectancy Andes for profit provisions on the ticket. Let’s REALLY talk about who is out of touch.
8
A Sanders nomination would be every Republican candidate’s plus the current occupant of our White House dream come true. He is very beatable. We Dems need a candidate who will appeal to those independents and suburbanites who voted forTrump and are now suffering from voter regret. Many were voting against Hillary and with Sanders they will do the same. In addition, we don’t need another white Senior citizen with dogmatic attitudes as our President. Move over guys and let the younger generation take the helm. Don’t forget whoever wins the White House will bring along Senators, Governors, Mayors etc. and
we certainly don’t need more Republicans filling those positions. Sanders the Spoiler should get out of the race. Let him take on the role of Very Senior Advisor. At near 90, that’s what I enjoy being.
8
Sanders suffers from two main weaknesses not mentioned in this article:
1. Black voters - Sanders lost the 2016 primary in part due to his inability to connect with black voters. This may be due to his race-neutral class based message which does not target specific concerns of black voters. Though Hillary won the primary partly due to blacks (especially older blacks), her lack of inspiration led to a dropoff in black turnout compared to Obama - especially in critical cities like Milwaukee, Detroit and Philadelphia. Even if he wins the nomination, will Sanders suffer the same fate ?
2. Socialism - Much has been made of how the term "socialism" will play among voters, but even more pressing is the financial aspect. Consider that almost every country offering single payer healthcare taxes all of its citizens (including the poor) a VAT (or sales tax) of roughly 20%. Even liberals such as Matthew Yglesias of Vox concede that such grandiose plans will require broad based taxes. Remember that Dems haven't asked the median voter for an extra dollar in taxes since Medicare 50 years ago. And (per the liberal Kaiser Foundation) support for single payer plummets when you ask people to pay more in taxes.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/22/15676782/california-single-payer-health-care-estimate
2
@Alan Backman- he's not a socialist for the 100th time.
5
The pundits are blind to the Zeitgeist. Integrity, anti-corruption, directly pro-working class are what a candidate needs to beat Trump. As Mr. Edsall noted, Internal polling shows Sanders beating Trump substantially. What was NOT noted yet again, was that Sanders Crushed Trump in Every single pre-primary poll for the 2016 election. The reasons are in the Zeitgeist. Independents and conservative leaning workers carry Huge resentment at the corruption of government by the financial elite. Trump Lied that he would be against the elites. Sanders was telling the truth about his anti-corruption anti-financial elite positions. And everyone understands he has held those views consistently for a very long time.
One of the analysts Edsall quotes suggested a contingent of Sanders supporters switching to trump when Sanders lost the nomination. Those were NOT the Liberal supporters. Those were the conservative democrats and independents who see, correctly, that the financial elite run the show for their own benefit. And establishment democrats are complicit in maintaining that anti-democracy power structure. Thus, abandonment of Clinton.
The Electability nonsense is an establishment scare tactic. It makes no sense. The number of (not really) democrats who will defect to Trump if Sanders is elected will be Miniscule by comparison to the number of voters who will switch to Sanders, along with the enormous energy of Progressives, who will actually have something to support this time.
20
Of course a lot of Democrats are worried about Bernie Sanders. There are two reasons for this:
1. He isn't a Democrat. He isn't registered with the party. He shouldn't even be allowed to run for the nomination.
2. He isn't electable to the office of president. Sure, he please those people up in Vermont who are always looking for some off-the-wall person to represent them, but what works in Vermont isn't going to work in the rest of the country.
15
He's old and done. America needs new young and fresh. If Bernie were smart he'd drop out, endorse and mentor someone. But alas ego trumps it all.
11
@Allen L.- young and fresh, just like that comedian elected President of Ukraine. Give me a break from that excuse.
2
Bernie Sanders is the epitome of honor and decency.
His opponents will work overtime dredging up every angle from his past, but it won't work.
He is a champion of the working class, and a champion of social and environmental justice.
He's outside the elite, and can attract back the desperate voters who pulled the lever for Trump.
Change is coming, hallelujah!
27
The apparently greater appeal of Bernie Sanders over Elizabeth Warren -- his patriarchal anger, however left it may be, over her well-thought-out, affordable progressive policies -- illustrates what is wrong with American politics.
Elizabeth Warren can also claim a defining, substantive governmental achievement in the creation of the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau. The Trump administration has nullified it for the present, sure, but the structure remains in place and the bureau could quickly be reinvigorated.
Bernie Sanders has achieved nothing of substance in comparison.
So long as his nothing polls better than her something, America is in deep trouble.
16
@csp123...thank you. I wish I could recommend your comment a thousand times.
2
The biggest issue I'd have with voting for Bernie Sanders is his age, and he's seriously too old for the presidency. Funny thing is how this applies to Biden, Trump and Warren as well, given how they're all seniors as well. This begs another inquiry:what next? It appears that the Civil War within the Democratic Party continues on unabated.
The fact Sanders invokes fear in some Democrats indicates how that aforementioned party hasn't successfully come to terms with the election defeat of 2016, or learned important lessons from it. Trump`s successful rebellion against the GOP establishment derived largely from his recognition that said entity had abandoned an important core of its voting constituency. In contrast, it seems many Democrats cling to how Hillary won the popular vote in 2016, indicating an endorsement of a since repudiated status-quo.
Bernie Sanders isn't a socialist or even a Social Democrat. Instead, he's a New Deal liberal, and I think Americans would be well served discerning this. However much I like you as my southern neighbors, I'm often aghast by the deficient knowledge of political philosophy exhibited by Americans. Please become better informed voters.
14
Bernie Sanders thinks it's beneath him to join the Democratic Party. Why should we nominate someone with such an insulting attitude?
We have a large number of terrific candidates who are actual Democrats to choose from. We don't need this entitled old egomaniac, and many of us detest him for the way he and his followers acted towards Hillary Clinton in 2016. He's a divisive figure in the party. We need to be unified.
Once the number of candidates has been whittled down to a few, I'm confident that the many Democrats who can't stand Bernie will tell him to scram.
18
@Carson Drew To respond to your first question my response is: Because doing what's right for the nation is a a much more important priority over party loyalties. One shouldn't let party prejudice guide their thinking when the cost could be another term for the ignorant, petulant child in power today.
3
@Carson Drew the way 'he acted' towards hillary? really?
i thought it was the party leadership that did all possible to sabotage his campaign. my how we forget...
4
I have no idea who I’ll end up voting for among the many Democratic candidates for President. But one thing I feel certain of: literally ANY Democratic candidate—even one who’s an avowed socialist—would be far superior to the amoral, a-democratic Scourge in Chief that our country endures right now.
15
Sanders doesn't scare me, he just doesn't ring true! To me, he is simply the flip side of Trump and the last thing the US needs is an elderly white guy who thinks he knows all the answers. (I'm not even sure he knows the questions.)
One further point, how on earth can a career politician describe himself as an "outsider" and be treated as one by the Bernie Bros (that says it all by the way!)?
13
Bernie blew it (again) with the "even the Boston Marathon bomber should be allowed to vote" line. The guy just doesn't care how he shoots himself in the foot with these insane ideal-world-scenarios. What's next? Pulling out Kucinich's Department of Peace concept off the dusty shelf? Bernie is McGovern '72 all over again and will end up similarly. He's going to be crucified with the "socialist" angle and is going to spend way too much time defining socialist to everyone the entire campaign. The GOP have already defined him and he's essentially Swift Boated himself with his own language.
11
'“$32.6 trillion during its first 10 years of full implementation,” which would require tax hikes'
Makes no sense as a statement. Someone is already paying the cost of health care today. The 32 trillion are not additional cost, just shifted cost. If it means increased taxes, it also means reduced cost elsewhere (no more premiums by individuals or their employers). Anyone who does not make this point clear is trying to deceive.
It would be great if the NYTimes could be more critical when quoting statements like this.
15
@Frank S Thank you for stating this. Yes, we already are paying 17% of GDP for health care. This includes the cost of marketing health insurance and all the advertisements for health networks, and the massive spending by pharmaceutical companies.
12
Biden VS Sanders
Bernie Sanders has been promoting the same politics for his whole public life, even when his ideas were considered impossible.
Joe Biden has supported big finance to the detriment of 99% American citizens for his whole public life.
For decades both men have made a statement with their political power.
Bernie for the people. Biden for the banks.
Of all the candidates for the upcoming Democratic presidential nomination Joe Biden will not be the nominee if a popular vote has any real weight. (And I like Joe.)
Bernie and Warren (either one) will be my pick.
18
My take on Mr. Edsall's essay differs from many of the commentators here.
Though Edsall appears to lean against Bernie Sanders, the article is not analogous to Debbie Wasserman Shultz's DNC knee capping. The essay is, in fact, a signal boost to Sanders, his campaign and supporters like me because it offers a road map to matters he must explain in confronting what is becoming widespread whispering campaign.
Edsall might have done better in his choice of experts. Daron Acemoglu may know a lot of about global inequality but his view of "socialism", a word fought over for a century by Lenin, arrayed against democratically minded Scandanavians, Germans,.British Fabians and Latin America social democrats. is hopelessly nominalist.
My life in foreign affairs began with studies with Prof. Freddy Diamant, who barely escaped the Holocaust on his way to becoming a foremost scholar of "isms". For him "democratic socialist" and "social democrat" were pretty much the same thing, scholastic argument notwithstanding.
In the real world, that was true of Western Europe and Latin America. Felipe Gonzalez's Spanish Socialists, influenced by German Social Democrats, took a pragmatic approach to Spain's economy, in contrast to Francois Mitterrand's statist French Socialists. Latin America's Social Democrats were accused in recent years, not of communism but of selling out to neo-liberals (another magical term).
Bernie's task: Explain the content of this convictions.
98
The most important piece of information from comparing countries like Denmark and the US. In Demark protecting the rights of workers is paramount. In the US we have shunned our citizens and hired cheap and exploited undocumented workers for most menial labor. We do not have to comply with OSHA or workers compensation laws for these workers. We use them. Perhaps in a homogeneous country like Denmark, they have more concern for its citizens.
4
If democrats want to take the wealthier whiter suburbs, they cannot let Sanders be the nominee. As much as they don’t like Trump, they are true fiscally conservative, small government (when convenient) Republicans through and through and they will absolutely not switch over unless they think they trust that they can keep their upper middle class lifestyles. Sanders is also inspiring close to zero enthusiasm amongst young women and while they aren’t the voting block likely to vote for Trump instead, they are the voting block likely to stay home if they aren’t motivated by the candidates. All in all, Sanders has gotten something between an “ugh” and a “meh” from most people I’ve talked to.
8
Any "fair and balanced" commentary on Bernie should address the right wing meme that Medicare for all would cost $30+ trillion over ten years. It is massive misinformation. The cost of a government run health insurance program will likely SAVE money. Simply subtract what we (individuals, companies, unions et al) are currently spending on an inadequate system that leaves ~20% uninsured and many more inadequately insured by our predatory private insurance companies. Plus the benefits to our workforce - the ability to change jobs without losing health insurance, the addition of optical and dental insurance, freedom from the fear of medical bankruptcy, and 100% coverage - would be immense. Few economic ideas promise such improvement for our beleaguered working class and middle class.
Don't let this obvious lie about the NET cost of Medicare for All go unchallenged!
8
Bernie Sanders couldn't win the nomination in 2016, and I don't believe he can win it in 2020.
6
if sanders becomes the democratic nominee i know many people including myself who will be voting for a third party candidate. since we are in calif. there wont be any impact from our votes on the election, but that may not be the case in other states.
7
I do not believe that Bernie Sanders can be elected president in the United States at the present time, although it is certainly possible that he could get the Democratic party nomination. His policies are too far left, including his most recent statement that he is in favor of convicted felons who are still serving their sentences being given the right to vote. What? Full disclosure: I am not a member of the Democratic party and I vote as a fiscal conservative.
2
Very few political operators/writers seem be citing my major concern with Sanders: he seems unserious about the job he seeks.
Yes, a president ought to have a domestic legislative agenda; some leadership on that front can and should come from the Oval Office. We make a grievous error in allowing our presidential elections to turn on a domestic legislative agenda.
The president's main jobs:
-Conducting foreign affairs
-Administrating and managing the federal government
I followed 2016 closely. I never heard a serious or nuanced answer in either of these areas from Sanders. Instead, I heard him universally respond to questions pertaining to these real responsibilities of the president with diatribes against Wall Street and the 1% or broad calls for revolution.
The legislative branch is responsible for any decision making that would re-make American society in Sander's image. He should stay there and prosecute that case with the seriousness he shows in seeking the presidency.
More broadly, our populace needs to learn what the president does and elect someone who understands and wants to do the actual job.
9
I think the question at the end of the piece is flawed—the one talking about middle-of-the-road voters.
Bernie is addressing middle-of-the-road concerns but they are not the ones commonly forgotten.
Large swaths of the electorate stopped voting because they saw a choice between Republicans and Republican-lite. Large swaths dropped out due to burnout, cynicism, and what I would call political post-traumatic stress disorder.
All of these depressions in turnout benefitted Republicans, and Republicans have noticed and done their best to exacerbate these trends.
What Bernie currently brings to the table is an understanding of ordinary struggles because he’s lived them. He brings an ideology reminiscent of old-school New Deal Democrats instead of Republican-lite. He brings a long track record of fighting for marginalized people from all neighborhoods.
We have a lot of people able to vote if they are given a proper progressive candidate on the ballot. They have been ignored for far too long, and it’s time for that to stop.
14
I like Bernie and love Joe but it’s time that they and others of my age make way for the younger generation. Let the young take the reigns and lead us. Add in some gray hair but let the young take it from here. After all, they’re the ones who will be here long after we’re gone, living with the consequences of decisions made this year and next.
9
Bernie Saunders doesn't scare me. What he says is basic common sense.
The guy you should be scared and very tired of is Trump.
221
We haven't got the numbers in an Election.
Bernie, just like Ralph Nader with Al Gore, is a huge GIFT to Republicans on election day.
And the old FOOL wants to help Republicans twice.
10
@Timbuk
Bernie attacks the Democrats from the left, while Trump attacks from the right.
I am scared of Bernie because he helps Trump.
Your denial of this is irrelevant as I saw it with my own eyes in 2016.
I wish Bernie would just go away.
17
Unfortunately I think that if Sanders is a Democratic nominee, Trump is assured the second term. He just does not have any substantial following beyond the "coastal elites".
I also don't know why he is calling himself "socialist". I guess maybe he wants to partially nationalize health care? But that is a very timid action for the socialists who would typically want to completely nationalize at least a few industries.
But I do not support single payer health care. I think this would require huge, sudden changes that will be very painful. A lot of countries in Europe, such as Germany, have a mix of private non for profit, private for profit and public health plans and are doing fine. They are essentially Obamacare with more government regulations and universal mandate....
7
Dems dislike Mr. Trump because they say he doesn't adhere to the usual rules of the political process, but they like Bernie Sanders who's pretty well acknowledged to be the next best thing to an outright communist, Hmm. To win in 2020 (and it's probably too late for them already) they have to get back to the center. Who turns out to be their genuine centrist candidate? The probably unelectable Mr. Buttigieg. The Dems are wandering in the political wilderness.
4
This is the king of all hit pieces. Democrat insiders were asked what's scary about Bernie Sanders. I think the real answer is that they are scared his election would mean that the Democratic Party would be disconnected from their corporate donors. What's up with mentioning Bernie's personal life? Are you afraid of talking about the real issues? The NYT is getting close to being Fox News. I'm going to make another donation to Bernie today and every other time I see unprofessional journalism.
18
@PH Yes, the bread and butter of these political consultants is 1) the party and 2) corporate clients.
13
Hooray! Me too!
3
Bernie Sanders is a disaster for the democrats. His ego is greater than Trumps !. He cannot possibly win the presidency and he has no experience of leadership. He has achieved nothing of significance in the Senate. He is a multi millionaire with over $ 25 million in personal assets. Yet he preaches to the poor
He totally prevented Hilary from being elected. She was the first candidate who actually had the experience and track record to know how to run this country and maintain the USA's position and reputation in the world.
If this egotistical Bernie continues we will almost certainly have another 4 years of the worst , most deceitful and mendacious president this country has ever endured.
He will again divide the vote so that no democrat will have the entire party behind him/her.
BERNIE think of the good of the democratic party and not just your own ego
8
Anyone else note that most all the top Reader Picks are Pro-Sanders.
Just like yesterday.
All (most)of the NYT Picks are Con-Sanders.
Just like yesterday?
C'mon NYT; Be Better.
13
clearly a hit piece.
12
The comments show that the commenters here are more liberal / left leaning than the average Democrats I know. This echos the comment in the article: “Democratic primary voters and caucus goers are more liberal than voters in the general election, including the Democratic electorate as a whole.”
3
I think Bernie has quite a few good policy ideas. The fact that he seems determined to make the word "socialist" acceptable more than he desires to push those ideas bothers me.
I'm afraid that if Democrats don't wise-up, they will hand "Individual 1" a second term and a chance to take advantage of certain statutes of limitations.
2
@Alan R Brock- So Social Security bothers you? How about Medicare? Better "Social" programs for those who need them than social programs for the wealthy. Please wake up.
1
Even though a lot of the "expert testimony," in Edsel's piece, especially from economists, is garbage, yes, in my experience, there are many—mostly older East Coast Democrats, including many older Jews— who detest Bernie. They typically come up with policy reasons, or mention socialism etc when pressed, but the truth is Bernie just upsets them on general principles.
As a Bernie supporter, I worry about this. Short of a massive recession in the first quarter of 2020—which could very well happen—they are not going to come around. However Bernie is not going to lose New England, New York or New Jersey—or the West Coast— to Trump anyway. The crunch could come in places like Pennsylvania.
We'll see what happens, but Bernie cannot ratchet back or back down. That is the essence of his appeal. And that appeal is considerable, especially to young people and working class, Midwest Democrats who abandoned the Party in 2016, and who the Democrats still need to beat Trump and just as importantly, take back the Senate.
Of the other leading Democrats running as Bernie-lite progressives, the only credible candidate is Elizabeth Warren. Bernie and Warren are conviction, not ambition, candidates. The others are the usual suspect, any which way the wind blows, Democrats—and I'm looking at you Kamala Harris—who could all lose to Trump. And deserve to.
Big picture, attack articles like this one actually help Bernie. If Bernie gets the nomination, he wins if they don't shoot him first.
9
If I recall correctly, I believe Bernie won the primary in PA. My memory could be faulty.
1
Hillary overwhelmingly won the primary in PA in 2016.
2
What happens if he’s the nominee? The Democrats win.
10
@Christopher G
Too funny!
Everyone worries about Bernie because he doesn’t take money from the big dogs....
We all have to realize that corporations don’t care about us. We need to stop allowing government to take money from corporations or else nothing will get done.
Also we’re on a timeline folks... and no ones money will be useful when this place is burning?
I don’t want to hear any religious rhetoric about the world ending and jesus coming back and prophecies..
We need to grow up and take responsibility for the idiocracy that we’ve been dealt with.
4
@Thomas Edsall, please don't write about extraneous items when you attack Bernie. I am not backing him in 2020 but this is a below the belt hit piece. When your pagemate Krugman, who I admire, attacked his economics and the "gang of four" unqualified macroeconomists attacked Gerald Friedman's theories, it was debunked by other economists including Galbraith.
We get it, The Times is a center right Democrat candidate supporter and will not give room for even FDR style candidates. Never mind that voters will shove aside fence sitting centrists in this next election.
12
He would probably become president in 2016 if the party had selected him - the people had no trust that the established parties would - or could - solve the social inequality problem caused by the neoliberals.
He is the only Democrat with any chance of defeating Trump in 2020.
9
It's so odd to me that after Trump's 2016 win, conventional notions of who is or isn't electable are still taken seriously.
10
If Bernie says, "I will not model my socialism on Cuba and Venezuela." I might vote for him in the primaries.
34
@Mike If he has to say that explicitly in order for you to know it, if you don't already know it based on a rudimentary grasp of FDR-style social democracy, I strongly recommend that you do more research into who he is as a Congress member, and what democratic socialism and social democracy actually are. (Plan on using Social Security and Medicare in retirement? Then BAM! You're already halfway to understanding what "socialism" means in the American context! We are *already* a "socialist country" in that sense--he only wants to expand benefits to more people because we need it--and we can afford it because corporations hoard their profits overseas!).
Ok, you don't like "socialism"? Fine. How about "FDR 2.0"? Is that easily digestible?
Please don't get hung up on the propaganda. The fact that you say you're willing to vote for him under *any* circumstances is encouraging. Just assuage your fears by going to his website, his rallies, talk to supporters, and start with Wikipedia. Look up "democratic socialism" and "social democracy" and "the New Deal." Bernie will seem a LOT less scary, and a LOT more like *exactly* what this country needs. Don't let mainstream media propaganda scare you. That's exactly what they're trying to do. Go to progressive YouTube channels like TYT or Majority Report or Kyle Kulinski. They'll give you a fuller understanding than corporate-owned media :-)
29
@Mike
Venezuela and Cuba are Communist countries.
All of Scandinavia and Europe operate a capitalist system while simultaneously providing a strong social construct for their citizens.
I don't know why that is so difficult for people to understand. But apparently it is.
Bernie Sanders is not a Communist.
28
@Mike
"I will not model my socialism on Cuba and Venezuela."
Lol. And he will get destroyed.
You guys really don't know how awful that sounds???
Here's a countervailing joke.
Not modeled on Cuba or Venezuela....or Soviet Socialism, or German National Socialism....or......
Is it possible to lose 51 states in a 50 state election??
5
Senator Sanders program is the first step toward improved growth in our country. I want to see some clear planks that will stabilize our environment. I believe he favors that concept and many more that can bring our country to full leadership of our planet.
5
If it's Bernie vs. Trump, the one of the major issues will be how many dems won't vote for Bernie but will vote for Trump. I think Bernie has a great chance against Trump, for all the reasons other commenters have made. Maybe not so much against a moderate republican, a species that has apparently gone extinct, and is therefore irrelevant. And he won't ignore the middle of the country like Hillary did. And he has much more appealing positions than Hillary did for working class people.. I'd also be curious about how many of the talking heads quoted in this article, who state all the reasons in the world not to vote for Bernie, will actually vote for Trump. It would have been nice to see that information. Run, Bernie, run. Millions of us will have your back.
11
Coming just one day before the expected Biden announcement, this column feels like a bulletin board for his supporters. One can only imagine how the troops were rallied today to post their very wide variety of comments opposing a Sanders candidacy.
5
I need Bernie and the Democrats to explain why Democratic Socialism has failed so comprehensively in Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, and every other country that has tried it in the history of mankind.
How will Bernie's brand of Socialism be different?
Why is someone who is not a Democrat being allowed to displace a real Democrat on the presidential ticket?
The election is really about the economy. If the economy remains as strong as it is today, Trump gets re-elected no matter his opponent. Democrats are trying to talk the economy down, but so far that effort only works in CT.
The real reason Democrats want to impeach Trump? Because they realize they are not likely to beat him at the polls in 2020.
Thus, the question devolves to which candidate will do the least damage down the ticket to Democrats. That's not Bernie.
4
Easy answer to that. Because the countries you mention are NOT Democratic Socialism. For that you need to look at Canada, Sweden, Denmark, Finland. All of the make the top of the list in happiness quotients. Check it out.
1
It’s pretty remarkable how petty the attacks on bernie are from democratic operatives. Criticizing the fact that he lived in a cheap apartment in the the 60’s, as if that’s a black mark. Maybe they will criticize his car for being too cheap next.
There is clearly a lot of bitterness built up over Hillary’s loss, and they are lashing out at any convenient target.
Much milder criticism of Hillary (who was under an active fbi investigation that we were all supposed to ignore) was basically treated like treason in 2016 primary. Now the front runner is basically being accused of being the next stalin by fellow democrats...
I voted for Hillary in the general last time, despite some reservations about how the primary was conducted. At some point though, I just can’t support the party if it’s being run this way. I want politicians who are working on my behalf, not ones who think I owe them my vote because they were anointed by democratic party officials.
10
This is in response to this NYT article; Bernie Sanders can not possibly beat Trump. The most important issue for the 2020 election is to be absolutely certain that Donald John Trump is not reelected! The issues preached by Sanders are admirable goals. HOWEVER, THEY PALE IN COMPARISON TO THE NECESSITY TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM THE OVAL OFFICE.
I'm appalled, but not surprised, that Sanders has thrown his hat into the ring. He is a possible nominee, but HE IS TOTALLY UNELECTABLE. President Trump is shouting the words that would be used in the campaign to deny him election; SOCIALIST and COMMUNIST! The USA citizenry has been brainwashed for over a century that these economic and political systems are evil.
I'm a 76 year old physicist, retired after 38 years from Los Alamos National Laboratory; my field, Nuclear Nonproliferation and Arms Control, provided the opportunity to live, work, and travel in over 50 countries. I've spent over 20 years in countries that have versions of Democratic Socialism. I consider this better than the present system in the USA that I call a Capitalist Oligarchy, not a true Democracy.
Yes, I would hope the USA will eventually adopt the ideas that Bernie advocates, and become a more peaceful and humane member of the World Community. Unfortunately, I don't expect this to happen in my lifetime.
I repeat; WE MUST NOT ALLOW THE REELECTION OF DONALD TRUMP.
7
@Dr. T. Douglas Reilly- Sanders is the only one who can beat Trump or didn't you watch Fox News debate last week? The crowd loved him!!!!
1
Sanders isn't scary, just unconvincing. I don't believe he will get Medicare for All passed. I don't believe he'll end the "endless wars" - as far as I can tell, his only foreign policy. I don't believe he'll get a Green New Deal passed. In office, I think he'd probably just end up being a slightly-less-effective version of any other democrat.
And, honestly, I'm fine with that. If he wins the nomination, I'll vote for him without hesitation. Same for literally any other current Democratic candidate (maybe...we'll see on Moulton). We need a great House and Senate, not a Messiah in the White House.
2
I am sincerely amazed that so many of my fellow Americans come from families where people are sharp, vital, and at the top of their game well into their 80s. Only that experience could explain the unwillingness to consider Sanders' age.
5
Bernie needs to get more specific on economic policy proposals. Specifically, he needs to call for a tax on wealth, like Daniel Piketty and Elizabeth Warren to finance this social policy agenda. And, he and his advisors need to educate Americans on what social democracy really is. As for his early life, get real. Trump called STD's "his personal Vietnam". He dodged the draft and engaged in massive tax fraud with respect to his father's estate. He was alleged to have committed many sexual assaults.
If Sanders wins the nomination of course I will vote for him. Any Democrat or Independent is miles better than any Republican.
4
I am a Dem who does not want Bernie Sanders to be the Democratic nominee. But I would rather vote for Spam on toast than Donald Trump, so if Bernie’s got the nomination, I’ll reluctantly give him my vote.
6
This notion that Bernie Sanders is something scary is manufactured nonsense we shouldn't buy into. On the economic issues, the man is largely where the Democrats were in the decades after the Great Depression, the summit of middle class prosperity in this country. After the devastation of the middle-class, brought on by the ideological triumph of Milton Friedman and his avatar Reagan, the moneyed establishment wants us to believe that Sanders is frightening and radical? Please.
12
Quite a Few of Them Are Democrats ?
More than a few.
Bernie Sanders have monumental ego one 77 years old man and in a few months he will be 78.
Mr. Sanders should retire with dignity and remain as the Senator.
He is a wealthy man now, of course nothing wrong with that but there are so many excellent contenders in the Democratic field.
Hillary lost partly because of him and then Sanders took too long to concede in the primaries. He never supported his own Son when he ran for election .
Hope he never gets the nomination in the Primaries.
10
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd how there are very few Vermont folks commenting here? I scrolled down this very long list of comments and I could not find a single Vermonter. I would love to hear from constituents in his own state. I know if Jeff Merkley were running for prez, I'd be promoting him like crazy.
56
@S. F. Salz, plenty of Vermonters have commented to previous articles about Bernie and most were favorable--after all, he has been re-elected there for years. I often don't read opinion columns (other than Krugman) because they are just that--opinions. But Edsall is thought-provoking.
9
I'm not wild about Bernie and I will totally vote for him if he's the nominee.
3
Mr. Edsall tells us who his sources are: "The answers I got from Democrats who make their living in politics . . . .”
Who make their "living" in politics. That's quite the job description, isn't it? And who, the curious among you may ask, are the "employers" of such people? Why, the oligarchic class, of course. (I'd call them the American oligarchic class, but this class recognizes no country, has no patriotism such as you and I understand the word; no, their sole allegiance is to money, which recognizes no borders.)
No, the oligarchs who profit off of the continuance of the status quo of our rigged, corrupt, corporatist "free market" system, are first, last and always for themselves and themselves alone. Bernie Sanders, in sharp contrast, is first, last and always for us, the 99%. Bernie is for the many, not the few.
Given Mr. Sanders' fidelity to the bottom 99%, the oligarchs, the donor class to Republicans and Democrats alike, are completely correct in their assessment as to the threat posed to their world by Bernie. They're afraid and they SHOULD be afraid.
The "Democrats who make their living in politics" are likewise deathly afraid of Bernie. If Bernie puts their employers out of business--the donor class--well, then THEY would lose their jobs, their generous sinecures, too. They're afraid and they SHOULD be afraid.
You'd do well to recall that pundits "make their living in politics," too, and have the same employers. Journalistic bias, anyone?
16
Well, no.
I have my own ambivalence about Bernie, but most of the concerns in this article are ill-founded. Edsall and others should spend a bit of time in Vermont, my partial home for 28 years.
Bernie is unique, perhaps in all of America. His popularity in VT extends from back to the Earth hippies who nestled into the woods in the 60's and 70's to multi-generational stubborn Vermonters who think you can't be a Vermonter until the 2nd or 3rd generation - at least. But not with Bernie. His support from these very disparate groups is why he may be the best candidate to beat Trump.
My granddaughter won a statewide Bernie Sanders essay contest and spent quite a bit of time with him. I trust her more than all of Edsall's sources combined. She found him genuine, passionate, kind and attentive.
For decades Bernie has been written off by conventional wisdom. That is a mistake.
13
Australia's 'Sanders moment', 48 years ago, when Gough Whitlam swept to power on a very Sanders-like platform, scared The Establishment so much that they had him sacked within 3 years. But he left behind Medicare For All (which endures, despite numerous conservative attempts to erode it), and a rebar of social and environmental supports which are now knit into the Australian foundations. We came out of the feudal dark-ages. For the first time, and ever since, everyone who lives in Australia deserves a government which serves every one of us. We are still a democratic-socialist nation, the global imperatives of oligarchy notwithstanding. In 50 years. i do hope today's American kids can look back with pride.
17
This is an obvious hit piece disguised as objective journalism. A bunch of semanitc arguments that the word "socialism" will doom Sanders's candidacy. The candidate himself uses that word FAR less frequently than do his critics, who purposely distort the meaning and fail to make the distinction from "democratic socialism" or "social democracy," because conflation serves their end. The WORD wouldn't sink Sanders, it's the DEMOCRATS' propaganda around the word that would.
Also, interviewing econ PhD's about Sanders's supposed sophistication about economics is COMPLETELY distortionary and again borders on propaganda. How much of a PH.D.-level grasp of econ has ANY U.S. president had, from Washington onward?? That is why THEY HIRE PH.D.s. What about Obama, Clinton, Carter, Bush, Reagan, ad infinitum? NONE OF THEM had a PhD-level of understanding about the nuances and minutiae of economic models. THAT IS WHY THEY APPOINT CABINET MEMBERS AND PRESIDENTIAL ADVISORS.
Also, this hit piece makes no mention of the fact that Sanders would attract a SUBSTANTIAL proportion of disaffected Trump voters who have said they would have voted for Sanders in the 2016 general if given the choice.
I have an Ivy League degree in economics and had a 4.0 GPA in my major. I don't work in econ but have deep insight into it. I wholeheartedly support Sanders and not out of naivete. I know he will assign the right people to FIX THIS BROKEN ECONOMY.
Nice try, NY Times, but you've failed again.
18
I will have a much easier time reading and considering posts from Sanders supporters when they aren’t written or include sections in all caps. I’ve seen this again and again and it’s what gives me pause—there’s a vitriol and aggression that seems to come out and I’m not sure what it’s about, but I find it sets the tone for argument rather than a nuanced exchange of ideas, something which we desperately need no matter whom we support.
7
What about the man from Starbuck's?
2
Bernie believes in Soviet style "socialism", and has had more contacts with Russia than Trump by orders of magnitude.
5
The mainstream economists mentioned are all neo-liberal bores whose usefulness on policy is about as relevant as their inflated self-importance. The journalist needs to have much greater skepticism of the economics profession.
6
From the article:
"Sanders and his supporters have argued that his early history is part of a no longer relevant past"
Funny, those same progressive supporters demand that the Yankees quit playing Kate Smith's rendition of God Bless America because in the 1930's she recorded a couple songs that had some racist lyrics in them.
You want these people determining the fate of the nation?
7
Moderation and "Centrism" have become an ideology - a failed ideology that has hugely increased economic inequality and hollowed out the Middle Class, replacing a living wage economy with a safety net economy. Economically Centrists are half way to the Koch brand of Capitalism. Does that seem outrageous? It isn't. The hollowing out of our economy started under Clinton. It was hidden by an economic sugar high due to offshoring and outsourcing that hugely increased profit by lowering the cost of labor.
There is no real Left in American Poitics. Bernie is to the right of Franklin Delano Roosevelt who put very progressive taxation in place. Centrists speak out strongly against racism and xenophobia and islamophobia but when it comes to a fight they haven't stopped the attacks on Civil Rights or reduced voter suppression or fought against for profit prisons or for profit PHRMA that includes those who made millions selling Opiods based on lies that they aren't addictive.
Bernie would be a correction, not a revolution. Democratic Socialism (European socialism) hasn't led to Communism anywhere.
8
A presiential election poll that puts Sanders at 29% and Biden at 24% has zero meaning. If one of them had over 50%, then I would find value in this column.
2
What do you call it when the government takes money from private citizens depending on their accumulating wealth? Many call it socialism. However, there it is: in the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution.
What do you call it when the government requires everyone to contribute to a universal pension plan? Certainly that is socialism. We call it Social Security.
What do you call it when the government requires contributions from its citizens so that older people can afford medical care? That's gotta be European socialism, doesn't it? These days we call it Medicare.
7
Call it what you like but it’s all confiscatory taxation to fund economic redistribution. It aims to level the playing field by taking things down to the lowest common denominator. Hiding behind euphemisms, it’s really mob rule. Just so long as it’s goals the “right” goals.
yes, and this redistribution is absolutely necessary because original distribution is unfair.
3
In the last congressional elections the Democrats flipped 40 seats. Of those only two were progressives the rest were all moderates. Please stop kidding yourselves and concentrate on getting Trump out of the White House. Bernie Sanders is seen here in the Mid West as a socialist and therefore not electable.
8
This is another op-ed appears to be directed to smear Bernie as he currently is a front runner and is rather sure to be the next President beating Trump by double digits. This is scary for a lot of interest groups particularly the Military Industrial Complex, Saudi, and Israeli support network.
By no means I am inferring that there are no other interest groups that are working to undermine Bernie for his pro-ordinary people policies to provide free education and healthcare for all as a Human Right and paid for by the US Government with zero co-pay.
People are defining him as a Socialist with no explanation, I wonder if our populace is so dense that they would take these words at face value. I guess that is one reason these powerful forces are pushing Biden to enter the Primary; the other democratic candidates so far have avoided criticizing each other but it is only a matter of time when these forces would ensure that the raw nature of politics would come out and civility and decency would take a back seat. We do know that some of the Democratic candidates would not stoop to these levels.
I am more concerned about interference/manipulation by our so called allies than Russia as this makes Trump a shoe in and we shall have another war in the Middle East.
We would support the candidate who wins the Democratic Primary though.
1
NOTHING is paid for by the US Government. Every penny it spends was taken, effectively at gun point (try not paying taxes and see if armed men don’t eventually arrive) to be redistributed, on the principle that the government knows better how to spend your money than you do.
2
Obviously the Democrats need to run on a progressive program. Many candidates can do that. They need also to run on generational change. Not only are Sanders (and Biden) too old (they aren't even boomers!), but they can't make an appeal that will increasingly attract Americans--that Trump is losing it because of his age and dated experience. I say this as a 72 year old. Sanders and Biden are vain and ultimately unpatriotic because they will help keep Trump at the wheel.
4
Don’t kid yourself. Every Democratic candidate who has announced, or who is rumored to plan to announce thus far has a platform that will assuredly lead to a second term for Trump.
2
Did they say same thing about Trump in 2016? His program could not win. And look where he is now. I guess we will not know if Sanders program wins, until we try.
"What happens if he's the nominee?" What a profound question (not), answered in five short words:
Vote for him or don't.
I certainly hope the NYT isn't planning to run a weekly piece on this insipid question about all of the Democratic candidates. Funny- I don't recall something similar in 2016 where there were at least a zillion Republicans contending for the slot.
1
Thomas B Edsall came to his opinions by the opinions of other people! People love to live a fantasy world that is boxed in, and there is only one way of thinking, hence we have Thomas B Edsall.
You really have to be living and thinking inside a box to not see, the corporate democrats a.k.a. republicans hiding behind the name of democrats are trying to smear this unstoppable force named Bernie Sanders.
7
To all those who talk about Sander's "lack of electability" or "naivety," let's remember what happened in 2016 with "very electable" and "very intelligent" Hillary. In 2020, let's go with Sanders who has the best vision!! This time, let's not regret like in 2016!!
8
My fellow Democrats, please cut it out. I guarantee you this kind of talk is bound to solidify support for Sanders. So stupid! That's how we got Trump. Bernie has great ideas, and despite his love of center stage and the fanaticism of the more cult-like of his followers, he would be a fine president, as would almost any of the other Democrats. Let the process happen!
I agree with the solid bunch of Dems that Sanders is to inclined to promote conflict, too inexperienced with working with opponents to get things done, and too fond of being St. George and the dragon with his rock-star appearances. Also, though age does not have to be a barrier, the 80s is approaching the time when everyone's brain power diminishes.
Hatred solves nothing, from the left, right, or center. Please just stop.
Just let it all happen! Remember, Jesus was a Democratic Socialist, and many European countries with moderate socialist programs are doing better than countries with less care for the whole community of humankind.
4
Mr Edsall,
I thought you were a decent man with a moral compass.
This hatchet job on the most worthwhile progressive candidate since FDR raises doubts on my opinion of you.
Please re-think and write on Bernie again. Your employer hates his guts but you don’t have to. Be a mensch. He is one.
12
When I read pro-corporate hit pieces like this, trying desperately to undermine public opinion for Bernie Sanders, the most popular politician in America today, I start to despair.
But then I read the top "Readers Pick" comments and I'm hopeful again. Clearly the readership of the NY Times is vastly wiser than its editors and their lackeys.
10
If neo communist Bernie is the Democratic nominee, I'll be voting for a third party candidate. I would hate to help re-elect the brainless lump known as Trump, but I could never get behind BS.
5
Establishment Democratic Party political operatives paved the way for President Trump. They are among the last people I would rely on for campaign predictions. To get a taste of their cluelessness, read the end of Jill Lepore's "These Truths."
7
Age is not a factor, except for those too young to have fully developed their bigotry about age.
2
I'm 63, hardly a kid, but Sanders' and Biden's age is a concern to me, as is Trump's, although that's one of the least of his problems. The country needs to integrate younger adults into the mainstream, and work with them to establish how we're going to get through this centrury. I think people of their ages often that old have great difficulty accepting the way the world has changed and how much younger people see it and cope with it. It's certainly not a disqualifier but I think it has to be considered. Two other things, first, as I've learned, every decade increases the physical challenges we face, and increases recovery time. Finally, anyone who's been in politics as long as Sanders and Biden have been tends to be much less adaptable and to take it a lot more personally when criticized.
6
@Dan Holton When the Rolling Stones retire, Bernie should take the hint. Otherwise, he should rock on.
2
There are not enough younger adults. Look at the UI Demographic Profile forecasts, research tables forecast for next 10 years. Banking on youth is a fools errand.
Sanders thinks people serving a prison sentence should be able to vote. That should be an extraordinarily effective issue for Trump to run on.
5
Ah. The gist of many of the comments below suggest that we Dems are readying the usual circular firing squad. "He's too this, she's too that, he took money from corporations!" My main concern is removing the current occupant of the White House in 2020 and replacing him with someone who will restore some measure of intelligence, dignity, and concern for the common good, the environment, and the global community. I have liked Bernie for many years, share some of the negative concerns in this article, but will be eagerly casting a vote for him should he become the nominee. I urge my fellows to shun the label "Dumb-O-Crats" that our infighting has richly deserved in the past and to take a lesson from Republicans. If it has an R behind the name, they vote for that person. Please, folks: as B. Franklin noted during the Revolution, "If we don't hang together, we will most assuredly hang separately."
6
There are only 2 people who could possibly lose to Trump. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.
9
Hillary Clinton is for sure, but Sanders we haven't tried yet.
2
All the brilliant pundits who anointed Clinton, thereby giving us Trump, don’t have much credibility, do they?
6
Last time we had Tracy Flick shoved down our throats because it was "her turn." Now it feels like over-represented voices from Twitter and progressive politics are foisting an eccentric octogenarian on us.
3
what scares me are centrist Democrats who do not want to change anything.
10
I think Bernie should stay in the Senate, where he can advance legislation that will accomplish his goals. We don't need another president who uses executive power to do so. I hope he will not be the nominee.
That said, this article is full of faulty premises. Why should Bernie's essays from the 60s be considered a problem in an election against Trump? That's absurd.
Why are we constantly worrying about the needs of the white working class? The working class isn't just white. And the white white working class seem to be the only ones who routinely vote against their economic interests. If economic interests are off the table, the evidence suggests wooing them means giving up on guns, immigration and civil rights. No thanks.
Egad, some people "backed Sanders in the 2016 primaries and shifted to Trump in the general election"?
Shifted to trump? To tRUMP?!!!
What were they thinking? What were they drinking?
And most importantly, what do they think now, after 2+ years of utter chaos and madness?
6
In 1972 Bernie Sanders was the Democratic Party nominee for president, using the alias George McGovern. He won only Massachusetts and the District of Columbia against Richard Nixon. It won't work out much better this time around.
7
It won't work because? Because we are still living in 1972?
Sanders will not pick up enough independent voters to defeat Trump. Democrats need a nominee who can win over those voters, and Sanders is not that guy.
7
In 2016 and today, the real problem is the disconnect between the elites, fundraisers, and donors of both parties and ordinary citizens. Many Americans justifiably believe that the political system does not represent them, and that the economic system is leaving them ever further behind as those elites get wealthier.
Trump owes his unexpected victory to those beliefs, which he cagily exploited by playing the populist who promised to "be our voice" and "drain the swamp." It's also why Bernie Sanders was able to win 22 states in 2016 without any help from elites, fundraisers, or donors. Hillary, as well as Jeb!, Rubio, and Cruz, represented "business as usual." The 2016 election was a resounding rejection of "business as usual," even if the pundits and elites aren't willing to accept or even acknowledge it as a rejection of themselves.
If the elites have their way, Joe Biden will be the Democratic nominee. He represents "business as usual," and will provide reliable return on donor investment. After four years of Trump showing his true colors, Biden may win because he's not Trump. But it's just as likely voters will again reject "business as usual," and give Trump four more years to complete his ruin of the country.
The fact that Sanders has once more raised so much money without help from elite donors should be a wakeup call to the "establishment." But I think they'll once again see him as merely a threat they can neutralize with enough money, as they did in 2016.
7
Why would the Democrats want to put forth a candidate who could beat Trump, after all the rich neo liberals are enjoying the same tax breaks as their neo con counterparts and Trump after lying through his teeth about extricating America from the burden of eternal war in support of Israel and the Royal Saudis now find their wars continuing while being able to deflect blame. The whole system is a charade as many of our greatest minds such as Thomas Piketty have pointed out, we have morphed into a one party system and a plutocracy at that.
14
What happens if he is the nominee? Then soon-to-be-Dictator Trump wins another 4+ years.
I'm sorry, Bernie. But the Bern I felt in 2016 burns no more.
The only Democratic candidate that I care about is the One who can actually beat the Trump Machine...and it's not a person calling for college for all, etc. We HAVE to attract moderates to our side at the voting polls this time. And, chants of democratic socialism resounds only in cha-ching in these voters' ears; paying more in taxes is a sure way to lose the Independents and moderates.
I truly believe that this is the most important election of our time.
4
I did not support Sanders in 2016, and I won't support him in 2020. We need a President who will bring Americans together and who will pursue effective, achievable policies. Sorry, but that's not Sanders.
9
I guess in 2016 Trump was the best uniter.
I don't like angry old men - Sanders, Trump come to mind. I am with Peter Buttigieg - he's smarter than both times 10, multilingual, positive and personable. Sanders' mistake was not running as an independent - so now he still wants to run as a Democrat? I don't think so.
7
Sanders is the populist flip side of Trump. He is the Trump of the left. He is trying to upend a system that merely needs a little tlc.
10
Mr. Edsall, Senator Sanders has a "lot of baggage" which would interfere with his electability. Then how did DJT get elected with his baggage?
2
Hmm. Of Political Bubbles and Other Such Delusions? Please allow me to suggest that one is not going to find out what motivates the average American by interviewing pundits and pols; most pundits and pols are far better off economically than the average American. Also, Socialism doesn't scare average nearly as much as runaway capitalism. That is to say, capitalism run amuck and that wholly marginalizes them and their families, such as the present state of capitalism. This terrifies present-day Americans. They've seen their livelihoods, their families, their savings, and their social respect cut to pieces and decimated over the past 40 years. Anyone who argues for a re-balancing of this system through more equal sharing of the wealth that Americans create is going to get a lot of attention and a lot of support.
Isms? They don't care about no stinking isms. Those who miss this point are whistling past the political graveyard.
8
This article confuses democratic socialism with social democracy. They are not the same. In social democracy, as practised in Scandinavia or under the Trudeau government in Canada, the emphasis is on democracy, although there is a welfare state model slightly more generous than that of the US, including some form of socialized medicine.
In democratic socialism, which is what Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez endorse, the emphasis is on socialism rather than democracy. This is a much more interventionist approach to social levelling and is more akin to the politics of a Jeremy Corbyn, or perhaps AMLO in Mexico, than the successful model of Scandinavia.
5
Funny, how his programs remind the programs implemented in Scandinavian countries.
2
I'm not an economist, but when I read the quotes from the economists in this article, all I could do was wonder why we still listen to these people.
Honestly. When was the last time economists, broadly, were right about big-picture realities? How many saw the financial crash coming? How many still pretend to think supply-side economics works ever? They live in this fairytale world of rational benefit-maximizers and discount rates that explain why we don't address the climate crisis, but can't actually figure out how the real world works or give us advice for how to get people to price the future accurately. They're not actually useless, but as people worth quoting in political articles, they're pretty close to useless.
The Republicans are way more successful than they deserve to be because they've largely abandoned "good economics" and just do whatever they want, then hammer Dems whenever they raise taxes or spending for any reason. They're blowing up the debt, and running insane deficits. They've somehow managed to slip "dynamic scoring" into their cost estimates, despite a complete lack of evidence it's actually something that reflects reality.
5
@Shirley0401
All the economists in the world laid end-to-end will not reach a reliable conclusion.
2
@Shirley0401 This is an absurdity. It’s not the job of the private economy to price for the future. It’s the government’s job to legislate that type of policy and then pricing will organically follow.
So...the same powers that be, who last time insisted that a corporate insider Democratic candidate was the best bet to beat Donald Trump, insist on doing the same thing all over again?
I’m sitting in the middle of flyover country, and Bernie’s policies are not as scary to many voters as these people would have us believe. Perhaps that’s what really frightens the insiders.
14
if the Dem establishment of paid pollsters and consultants is afraid of Sanders that only makes me want to support him more BUT if those guys are afraid he is too old, has to crazy a history as young man, is too much a self defined socialist than I have an easy way to "stop' him. Rally around Elizabeth Warren who has many of the same ideas and some very practical detailed proposals of how to achieve them but of course Warren like Sanders does not take corporate or PAC money so the Democratic Party would never support her.
7
Oh, please. The Times’ contributors, like its reporters, are rolling out the same slanted negative coverage of Sanders that they did in 2016 — when they weren’t ignoring him.
His politics are (and have been continuously) a combination of 1930s New Deal class ferment and 1960s struggles for racial equality. These were formative for him. He has consistently supported struggles of women, minorities and LGBTQ people.
Economically, it’s standard European-like “democratic socialism” in which a nation’s people care for the basic needs of all, by many different mechanisms.
He is different from all the other “progressive” candidates not only in being no Johnny-come-lately, but also in understanding of the role of movements, of social ferment of many kinds, in big change. It really is not about him, it’s about them.
23
I think Sanders can beat Trump, principally because of his style, charisma and leadership qualities. Trump wouldn't be able to hover over him the way he did Hillary in the 2016 debates and he won't be able to attack Bernie directly without a savage New York style verbal assault in response. If you remember the Gangs of New York starring Daniel Day Lewis about the underside of the emerging New York metropolis of the nineteenth century, the mob leader played by Lewis sounds exactly like Bernie Sanders. This character's nickname was "The Butcher" because he was in fact a butcher and he used his expert knife skills to good effect in the terrible street fights of the time.
So my intuitive understanding of a Sanders-Trump campaign would be a rough correspondence to what was shown in that Martin Scorcese film. Most likely, Sanders the socialist would win. What he would do after he wins reelection is something else. I question if he could put together a governing coalition in the House and Senate to advance his agenda.
4
@Yankelnevich Your portrait of Sanders as a mob leader wielding a knife certainly doesn't appeal to me, nor does the prospect of him out-Trumping Trump.
4
@Barbara Harman Well, I really didn't mean to disparage Bernie but he was raised in Brooklyn in the 1950s so he is pretty tough. Tough enough to handle Trump and I do think it will be a bit of a "knife fight" if they were going to go head to head against each other. They might look at sound like they are ready to murder each other but no blood would actually be spilled. But the verbal assault would be mean. I think Bernie wins though.
2
I'm not a Bernie bro (I like the ideas but not so much the man), but I think the arguments here are absurd. For a start, take a look at what got Trump elected. It was his rhetoric and chutzpah -- oh and his "socialist" claims and posture. Did voters care about his misogynist past? Not much (to my dismay). Bernie's socialism could attract a whole lot of voters who went for Trump.
9
With Hillary Clinton not in the race, the Democrats need somebody to hand the election to Trump.
5
Bernie's time is past, just has Hillary's. He is too divisive and far left. We need level headed and someone who can work with both sides. I think i'm still mad that he took votes from Hillary. :(
12
Biden with Kamala perhaps. We have had enough drama. We need sober conservative leadership. And we need reparations for dark skinned Americans. With this combination the Dems will have the conservatives and the minorities.
@Franlevin You don't have to be mad about that anymore because it never happened. Running in a party primary is a perfectly reasonable political action, and every single Democrat who has ever run for president has had to deal with primary opponents. Don't be mad at Bernie because people like his policies, be mad at Hillary for failing to motivate people to vote for her.
1
The only democrats Bernie scares are the corporate, military hawk, republican lite establishment.
16
Socialism is just a word rich elites invented to scare the population into voting against their interests. So far their tactics are working well.
9
@Eric
They used exactly the same word when medicare and SSI were rolled out.
3
Remember this is the newspaper who stated Trump had an 8% chance of winning the election.
I'll make my own decisions and vote for Bernie Sanders. Not the NYT's darling Elizabeth Warren
13
Bernie isn't presidential material because he doesn't care what anybody thinks. A president should care what everybody thinks. I've never voted Republican, but I won't vote for Bernie, either. We definitely don't need another old crank in the White House, even if he's less crooked.
6
Bernie is another Trump minus the latter's ill-gotten wealth and vulgarian character. Bernie can be just as self-righteous and intolerant of others' opinions that do not endorse his views. Besides, he's no team player, either. I have still not forgotten his unhelpful attitude verging on the contemptuous toward the Dem nominee in the last presidential elections. Although in the general elections, I would be squarely in his corner, I must also add that if you cannot support your group or party, then do not ask for their support, either.
8
how do all of the Bernie supporters respond to his position in the CNN townhall that all convicted felons, no matter what their crime should be allowed to vote while they are serving their sentences, including the Boston Marathon bomber? Seems a rather strange position.
9
@JGresham - He raised the "slippery slope" argument, which I hadn't considered before. Once we start denying a right to one group, it becomes easier and easier to deny that right to other groups. I was somewhat persuaded. Before, I felt that people in prison should not be able to vote, but that everybody, once having served their sentences, should have their FULL rights restored. Now, I find my view shifting more in line with Sanders'.
Prison should have a 3-fold purpose
1. Protect the public from a dangerous person.
2. Punish those who commit crimes.
3. Re-educating the prisoner, for an eventual safe return to society.
Incarceration is more than enough of a stripping of rights. Allowing prisoners to vote might even be useful as a part of their re-education into the importance of participating in society in a responsible way.
9
How is that different from wealthy and corrupt individuals; who never get convicted, but commit felonies all the time? Don't they still get to vote? The difference for me is one group (who doesn't have wealth and power) is paying their debt to society. The other group, never does. Yes, it's a slippery slope and one day you may find yourself sliding down the bottom of the "shouldn't be allowed to vote" group.
5
@JGresham Convince me that people in prison shouldn't be allowed to vote. Explain how their ability to wield a right granted to them by the constitution endangers the public good.
5
The first 2/3rds of this article reads like a by-the-book NYT hit job on Sanders, including fabrications and lies. Hopefully readers will make it through to the last 1/3rd where you touch on the points that could lead to his victory. You mention Quinnipiac polls of young voters and one by Tulchin Research, which examines the point that really matters. How might Sanders perform with swing voters in key swing states? After all, these are the voters who have picked every president in our lifetimes. It's the inevitable result of Electoral College math.
Back in April-May 2016, at the height of the primaries, Quinnipiac did polls in OH, PA and FL, comparing a Trump/Sanders race to a Trump/Clinton race. In every case Sanders had a larger winning margin than Clinton. Clinton went on to lose those states. Sanders' winning margin exceeded her eventual losing margin.
None of us are fortune tellers and can have predicted whether Sanders, had he been nominated, would have been able to hold those leads over Trump until November. But we thing we can say without a doubt. Had he been nominated, he would have started his race against Trump with a bigger lead than Clinton.
Sanders is fundamentally a Populist rather than a Democratic Socialist. This is why his message rings true with swing voters in the key swing states.
13
Bernie Sanders is too old to be the President. He would be about 80 at the time of inauguration.
He would never win the election. Trump will easily beat him and I'm a Democrat. We need someone younger, much younger.
10
Sanders is a populist, just like Trump. I agree with some of his positions, but he is not getting my support. By the way, he's a big part of the reason we have Trump at all. Next...
10
Bernie is only popular now because he never stopped campaigning after 2016 and has been raising money since then - very much like Trump. He is offering even more extreme ideas recently. His policies are simplistic and he avoids specifics.
11
I would love to watch the "debates" between Sanders and Trump. If you haven't noticed, Bernie is a terrific debater. What he says makes sense if you listen and understand, and the way he delivers is terrific (OK I'm from Brooklyn too).
During debates, one does not argue to the opponent - one argues to the audience - and I have heard enough of Bernie handling interviewers and winning - and I think Trump would be duck soup against him. There would be no Clinton-like post-mortem with "I wish I could have .... but I couldn't"
9
There's certainly no doubt that Sanders would have steamrolled Trump in 2016.
I'm not sure that means he has the same odds in 2020, and he's not my favorite in the democratic field.
But I don't believe for a second that he's "unelectable."
6
I’ll make this simple: Never Bernie.
It pains me to say that as a lifelong Democrat, but there is nothing that can convince me to vote for him.
12
Bernie and Putin stole the election from Hillary. A vote for Sanders is a vote for Putin. We need to take the Crimea back from Russia and integrate the Crimea into NATO and depose Assad. Had we elected Hillary all that would have been completed by now.
3
@David G. - If he ends up nominated and facing Trump in November 2020, will you vote? For whom?
1
I've identified as a Democrat since I was 11 years old. I first heard about Bernie in 2006, and when I read about his policies I realized that there was so much more that the Democrats could do that they simply chose NOT to do. As I grew older, and my political views shifted from blind party allegiance to educated stances on various political issues I drifted further and further away from the party.
I voted for Bernie in the 2016 NY primary, and I showed up in November to vote for Hillary. All of my "Bernie Bro" friends (not to mention my mother, a former Hillary fan) did the same, despite the ridiculous narrative that we all stayed home. If Bernie loses the 2020 nomination, I can live with it- but if he wins the nomination and establishment Dems stay home, I am done with this awful political party. They've been taking my vote for granted for years- 2020 will be the last time they get my vote for free. If they want my votes in the future, they'll have to earn it.
21
@Greg - I live in a Liberal part of the country. I and many people I know supported Sanders in the primary. But we were all happy to vote for Clinton in November.
The people who liked Sanders but voted for Trump were the SWING voters that every successful presidential candidate needs to persuade in order to win the swing states and the Electoral College. Those voters who went from Sanders to Trump were precisely the voters Clinton needed to be focusing on but failed to do.
9
@J Jencks Speaking as an Upstater, this is exactly what the big city-type elite Dems don't get- this country's swing voters went for Trump because he represented a big change, and they knew that change was the last thing Clinton would give them. Sanders represents the same thing, but to the elite, change is scary. Why would the elite want anything to change? They're richer than ever, especially now that they have Trump's tax cuts to enjoy. They'd rather lose to Trump again and wait it out then elect a real agent of political change.
8
Because I haven't said this here, and because I presume that I should, I will say it now: Joe Biden is an idiot, and I really don't want him to be president. Now, having said that, of course I would infinitely prefer Biden to Sanders, who is not as big of an idiot -- at least by my definition of that word -- but who has worse ideas and a total misunderstanding of the way societies cohere and grow, prosper and thrive.
To be honest, though, I'm actually surprised Sanders isn't even more popular than he is. What's not to like? He offers everything to everyone who isn't a millionaire, and then blames those same people's problems on the millionaires. There are two types of people who find this compelling: young, unripened college kids and academic fools and members of the dreaming leftist literati.
Even the economists that Edsall quotes criticizing Sanders's policies are mostly themselves liberal. I think it's important for people to have some appreciation for what capitalism has accomplished over the past 200 years and for what socialism has NOT accomplished, before endeavoring to critique one or the other. The loudest critics of capitalism (Chomsky, et al.), I've noticed, have minimal understanding of it. "He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that."
Here's a quick way to detect whether someone knows what they're talking about. If you see any of the following words used often, stop paying attention: corporate/corporation, elites, neoliberal, warmongering.
9
Having served deployed in 3 wars I know what warmonger means. Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard would be a good combination.
3
Scared? No. Disgusted with him? Yes...
7
Congrats, Tom. You've made a Bernie voter out of me.
17
If Sanders picks a minority woman as his running mate, Democrats will win the election.
11
@Richard Winchester
Eric Swalwell has pledged to pick a woman as his running mate. No race specified. (I'd like to see Elizabeth Warren.)
1
As expected, the Times runs another hit job on Bernie. It reminds me of how angry I was when this happened while he was campaigning against Hillary. Points for being consistent though.
16
Sanders certainly isn't the perfect candidate.
I tend to think Bernie's time has come and gone.
However, this Democrat, who voted for Sanders in 2016, is scared at all.
In fact, the reason Trump won was because the Democratic Party forced voters to choose between THE WORST CANDIDATE IN HISTORY...and Donald Trump, the 2nd worst.
I'm guessing Mr. Edsall is writing this column as a try-out for another candidate's campaign.
Also, this headline didn't even make the NY Times (From Spain):
"Trump amenaza con enviar soldados armados a la frontera y vuelve a atacar a México"
(Trump threatens to send armed troops to the border to attack Mexico)
https://elpais.com/internacional/2019/04/24/actualidad/1556115515_551758.html
3
In addition to Bernie's liabilities noted in the NYT opinion article, Trump's supporters are salivating at the prospect of running an anti-Semitic campaign.
2
Sanders scares Wall Street Democrats, not working Americans
11
It's hard to get through a piece that comes off as a disingenuous attack like this one. My first point of contention seems to be that Bernie Sanders isn't popular (or tested) with Independents and Republicans, yet much of his strength in this cycle is coming from Independants. What of his popular reception at the Fox News Town Hall last week? The most obvious contempt for Sanders is coming from the DC Beltway elite and insiders "who make their living in politics," to quote this piece. The bulk of those quoted for this piece seem to be quite out-of-touch, not only with Bernie Sanders and his campaign, but also with the American public.
My second major point of contention is that there are some serious falsehoods prepretratend in this piece. Why chose to print the $32.6 trillion 10-year price tag on Medicare-for-All, without also saying that this is a smaller cost for 10 years with our current For-Profit private health care system? Why would you do this? We know why.
Then there are just the clueless and disingenuous remarks by some of the people quoted in the article, like for instance, Daron Acemoglu, who seems to go into a criticism of USSR & Venezuela authoritarian socialism and then equates this with Bernie Sanders' policy positions. Acemoglu then goes on to praise countries that practice democratic socialism without actually saying that this is indeed the more accurate policy position of Sanders.
Let's all make sure to listen to these people less over the next year.
8
Sadly, I have had four oncologists in my life and all agreed that stress does contribute to the growth of cancer (in my case, prostate, one of my favorite organs), It seems, in their view, that stress puts a strain on one's immune system which then allows for the cancer cells in your (actually, my) body to take hold (non medical term here). Then again, the thought of the Democrats putting Sanders up as candidate for president causes me more stress than I can imagine, or want to...with the expected and dreaded consequences (for myself on a micro scale and the country on a macro one). It is too early for a Scotch, or too late?
5
After reading comments on this article, let me paraphrase: "the only thing to fear is democrats themselves." Early in the last election, I did support Sanders. My daughter was a national delegate for his campaign, and witnessed the rather undemocratic machinations of the Clinton campaign up close. Yet, when Clinton became the nominee, my daughter, myself, and all our Sanders supporting friends worked very hard for her election. My daughter exhausted herself. Not one "Bernie bro" in our camp did not vote for Clinton. Of course, none of us have been acknowledged by the bitter Clinton camp. We felt we all lost. Clinton supporters seem to feel that it was just them. And strangely, they can't seem to believe that their candidate was weak. They say that Sanders has a likeability problem, despite his place in the polls to this day. I think there is a real problem with a faction of the party that can't look honestly in the mirror.
12
If Bernie Sanders gets the nomination, I will vote for him. If one of the other candidates gets the nomination I will vote for her/him. If there is one thing that would make me just stay home and not even bother voting though, it's the ugly comments and hatred directed towards Bernie Sanders by many Democrats. Instead of trying to tear down and destroy the competition for the Democrat nomination, why don't they make the case for why their choice is the better one? The Democratic party is so full of negative, spiteful energy, the only reason why they still get my vote is because the other side is even worse.
6
Enough of the Centrist, corporate-co-opted candidates.
'Centrist' 'New Democrat' Bill Clinton took all the wrong advice from Larry Summers et al about deregulating Wall St. by repealing Glass-Steagall, and making inevitable the 2008 financial crisis.
Obama did little to ensure the culprits were punished - or did I miss the leadership of Standard & Poor being frog-marched out of their offices for giving garbage investments a AAA-rating? Having Holder as AG did not help - as he was responsible for the 'too big to fail' excuse stemming from his 'collateral consequences' reasoning that some market players are so important that the government should obtain their permission before prosecuting them for wrongdoing. I've had quite enough of his corporate-friendly sort.
8
There's more to being president than policies. I don't believe a straight white man who would turn 80 his first year in office is the messiah who will save us from Trump. I am also not sure why so many liberals ignore his record on gun control. He's not representative of the diversity in our country and there is a whole slate of strong candidates this time around. I don't see how choosing the most problematic candidate is a good move here.
10
The Democrats need to cut off Bernie Sanders from all SNC$ or resources, for the simple reason:BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT, HAS NEVER BEEN, OR WILL BE A DEMOCRAT. He is an Independent who hijacked the democrats resources and $$ in 2016, and will do it again. He and his Bernie Bros need to run an honest campaign as a third party, so that the Democrats can run a Democratic candidate to beat Trump. Sanders is just like Nadar was; his ego would rather keep Trump in power, then let a real democrat run and win..
8
For those hoping Old Bernie steps aside to make room for actual Democratic candidates, consider Eric Swalwell. Yesterday he said:
"I know where I can't speak to someone else's experience and I pledge to:
1️⃣ Pass the mic
2️⃣ Ask a woman to serve as VP"
3
In the words of one of the most radical, progressive, “socialist” American leaders of the last century, “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.” Centrists are the proverbial frog in the boiling pot croaking “Don’t touch that thermostat!” For every step leftward back toward the center taken by Democratic administrations, we take four giant leaps to the right under Republicans. This rightward slide has moved what was once the center to a place that’s so far over the horizon we don’t recognize it when a progressive candidate offers to lead us back there. We’re beyond the point of needing a centrist-incrementalist corporate Democrat to nibble at the margins of an authoritarian, oligarchic, one-party, neo-fascist America. What, for instance, is the gentle, moderate, centrist antidote to crushing, Gilded Age wealth inequality? When 40 percent of Americans don’t have $400 in the bank to cover an emergency, what’s the centrist solution, help them get to $600?
8
Republican Party delighted. Bernie brings them gives the ultimate campaign weapon. The new 2020 mantra from Cadet Bone Spurs, Mitch and crew will be "Socialism". It's already started. Most uninformed voters do not know that there are many forms of Socialism. What all voters should desire is a Democracy tempered by the checks and balances we now have. Added balance comes from our free press. We must have, in the mix, a commitment to a declared clear social conscience. Thus our already in place social care programs that include Medicare, Social Security, Affordable Care Act and Medicaid. Republicans will not deem to mention that - they will omit it from the campaign discourse. Count on it. So - no apathy, vote. Dump Trump, Ditch Mitch, flip the Senate, increase the House Democratic majority. Take back our country.
4
Mentioning how much Medicare For All will cost without also mentioning the greater amount it will save the country is out-and-out deception. No thank you.
5
42% of American workers are making less than $15 an hour. 40% of Americans would struggle to pay $400 for an emergency expense. We've had 10 years of economic growth. If economically struggling voters are angry and want to smash things, who can blame them?
The Democratic Party needs a candidate who can offer something real to people who are struggling. A candidate with a positive message of economic change can win. "I will be a competent administrator who makes a few minor policy changes" is a losing message. Struggling people will not vote to maintain the status quo (which is economically about the same as it was in 2016). They will stay home or give elites the finger by voting for Trump if real change isn't on the ballot.
11
To answer the question: We'll have four more years of ConDon.
Bernie needs to get out of the race.
6
Can't imagine why they pick on Bernie. Could it be he is out of control and has a snowballs chance in July to beat the president.
3
Until Bernie Sanders joins the Democratic Party, he should not be allowed to run in our primaries.
9
I've been observing the American brand of democracy at work, here in the United States of America for 69 years, and can state unequivocally, that for the last nearly 50 years, that this democracy is anything but, and, in my opinion and the opinion of tens of millions of Americans, what we have here is a not so sophisticated system comprised of two fake parties, known as Republicans and Democrats, both of whom are one and the same, who share in the rule of the masses, all the while cementing their economic control of the nation, and steadily driving the masses into economic slavery and near penury.
To this ruling class, Bernie is the enemy, an enemy the likes of which they have never encountered, an honest man, one who wears his honesty and fortrightness unabashedly, shining so brilliantly that all other candidates are made nearly invisible.
The nightmare scenario of being no longer able to collect billions of dollars, from corporate America, is driving the party bigwigs to distraction.
Bernie needs to be relentless throughout this campaign, allow no criticism to go unanswered, and be alert for the truly nasty operatives both parties will soon begin to deploy.
And yes, he will become our 46th President and Commander In Chief.
9
Since, the word "socialism" has negative connotations, some politicians proposing socialist ideas try to avoid the word, making them look ashamed of their own views, even a bit dishonest.
A better way is to quantify socialism so that voters have a better notion of where a politician stands. I suggest four spectrums measuring important aspects of socialism.
1. Percentage of the economy directly run by government (i.e., the Postal Service or Social Security). Some politician might want 30 percent socialist, while others might want 50 percent.
2. Percentage of the GDP that goes through government. Some might want 40 percent, while others 70 percent.
3. Percentage equality between the wealth of the richest and poorest. Some politicians loudly and falsely claim to oppose inequality, arguing that this injustice produces political inequity -- their proposals will not achieve equality.
So we need to have economists examine the politicians' programs to tell us the actual percentage inequality that would result from the different politicians' proposals.
4. A measure of government regulation of the economy each politician wants. I don't know how economists quantify this. I suppose they have ways of comparing the current levels with what various politicians propose. These could be placed on a scale from zero to a hundred.
The voter would then have better ways to compare various candidates' socialistic views to what pundits advocate and what each voter wants.
3
I see way too much faith in polling data. Remember 2016? Let's let the candidates run their campaigns. If you run an article like this one, then I want to see a comparable one in short order for each of the (20? 21?) Democratic candidates. Then let the campaigns, the town halls, the debates, and the primaries run their course. Then get everyone you can think of to support the Democratic candidate and vote in 2020.
2
The Democrats including Sanders generally agree on the broad policy aims. The economic aspects of the Sanders proposals are a bit of a joke, but Warren and Inslee have, for instance, proposed economic policies that accomplish the same things and are workable. What scares me aren't his policies. In 2016, Sanders put his political ideology and personal ambition before the wellbeing of the nation and its democracy. As we learned last week (from an interview he gave with Vermont public radio), he was aware early on that the Russians were helping him, but he never said a word about it. As summer 2016 arrived, Sanders was well behind in the primary. By that time it was obvious that his quixotic efforts were helping only the Republican nominee. And, for that matter, the Russians.
9
I’ve never heard that Russia was helpng Bernie. Source, please...not hearsay, but source.
1
@Robert
Thanks for your reply. None of what I said was hearsay. As for the Russians helping Sanders, one of Mr. Mueller's publications told us. If I remember correctly, it was the one in which he indicted the Russians. NPR news told us last week about the Vermont public radio interview with Sanders.
4
@Robert
By the way, if I remember correctly, that same Mueller document told us they were also explicitly assisting Ms. Stein.
5
The Democratic Party establishment, at least privately if not publicly, should acknowledge one thing about Bernie Sanders: the rise in his national political appeal is due mainly to capitalism’s failure in 2008 and the Democratic Party’s unwillingness to more forcefully confront this. Democrats did foster the conditions which led to the Great Recession (the financial deregulation during the Clinton presidency) and mounted a completely inadequate response to the Great Recession (the stimulus which everyone knew at the time was too small, and the Obama Administration’s prioritizing of corporate and financial interests at the expense of ordinary Americans, as Tim Geithner openly admitted more than once).
Yes, I’m highlighting the Democratic Party’s failures on both counts. If the Republican Party had been the sole owners of these failures, then I think the Democratic Party’s moderate response would have met with general acceptance and little discontent. It’s the failure of the Democratic Party in particular to prevent, or to better address, the Great Recession that has created the opening that now exists for Sanders.
If the Democratic Party doesn’t want to have to worry about candidates like Sanders going forward, it needs to co-opt them by walking the walk (and not just talking the talk) on more aggressively pursuing economic politics that benefit the many instead of the fortunate few.
9
Problem is that a big chunk of the party are lawyers and doctors who are profiting from the current system.
1
How could anyone think that Sanders's love life is problematic compared with that of DJT: three wives, all of whom he's been unfaithful to; dalliances with a porn actress and a nudes-magazine model, one of which was going on just after his wife gave birth to one of his children; and an absentee father to one of his kids.
And with regard to "socialism": To quote Bill Maher, "America, you're soaking in it." What on Earth do people think that Medicare and Social Security -- two of the most popular programs in this country, ever -- are? Hint: Look at the "Social" in "Social Security."
Credit Dems with enough sense to pay attention to his actual policies. That said, I think Warren deserves the nomination -- and she's an avowed capitalist, which won't freak out the Dem mainstream.
2
Bernie has a strong moral compass and he uses it. He is not afraid to speak his mind and he stands out because of this. The Dems are mostly politician types and even if they raise money in a certain way, with small donations, they are, almost all cut from the same corporate capitalist cloth. As soon as I see this exhibited by their responses, I cross them off the "real" list, as soon as they betray their real thoughts for a political safe statement, they are gone. That pretty much leaves Bernie. What ever he has been he is the best we have to rebuild our moral fiber as a people of a country. This cannot and should not be misunderstood by the people that want to discredit him, because they cannot.
We are voting for so much more then ever before. And Bernie is a hero for being himself and showing us his high ethical standards and standing up to anyone he needs to. He calls it as it is, regardless of the people repelled by labels. Just look around, we have been living with all socialism and revolution for some years now, and have throughout the history of this country.
8
Bernie is NOT a Dem and he should NOT be on the Dem ticket. He should run third party. Kick him off Dem ticket!
7
Those Democratic and independent voters who find Bernard Sanders "scary" have a great "safe" alternative in Elizabeth Warren. Her proposals are every bit as progressive and transformational as Sanders' and her heart for ordinary working people is just as good. Sure, Trump could recycle that slur he used against her earlier, but what else? All she lacks is that indefinable "charisma" and a sexy wardrobe. Her brave, principled stand on impeachment while other Democratic candidates, including Sanders, equivocate also shows she has the backbone to stand her ground and push forward her agenda.
5
OK, Mr. Edsall, how about a column that lays out all the potential problems with Joe Biden? It would be at least as long as this. You could call Joe “Hillary 2.0” (or maybe “0.5”).
9
Don't worry, as long as Mitch McConnell is majority leader nothing progressive will happen. Just like now.
4
He won't be the nominee
1
What will happen if Bernie is the Democrats nominee? Trump will be re-elected, as night follows day. And then what will the Bernie Bros say? It was all the fault of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, not us.
8
What will happen if he's the Democratic nominee in 2020? the party and its supporters will rally around him. No matter who is the nominee will get the support of Dems across the country. Why? Because the alternative is an orange, deranged, narcissistic, corrupt, misogynistic, tax-evading, colluder.
4
@tony
You forgot to include criminal, one who will hopefully pay for his crimes, sooner or later.
I was a twenty year old McGovern campaigner running against Nixon........should have been a no-brainer.......as Yogi once said......It looks like deja vu all over again.
7
We should be afraid of where the right wingnuts who support Trump are taking us. If I have to choose between "socialism" and "fascism", I'll take the former.
1
Look.
I am probably going to be leaving the home I raised my children when they graduate and relocate to another state. I would like to return to a few cities out west, where I lived before, but the amount of vagrant homeless people thanks to drug programs preclude me from doing so.
So unthinkably, I am looking at a few red states down South.
Why? Cost of living, low property taxes. Yes, lesser services but still a better equation.
The Dems have it mostly right—but there is a level of extremity when it comes to taxes, and social services, that defy common sense. That is where the party loses the middle and no two people exemplify that more than Sanders and Warren.
Pick a moderate, Dems.
3
Look - I support Buttigieg, but I think that this article on Sanders (as well as the one on Buttigieg's "internettiness" that was published today) represent an attempt by the NYT to influence voters. How else to explain the dredging up of Sanders student thoughts and belief from more than 60 years ago?
Sanders is a good man. Not to my taste perhaps, but I'd gladly vote for him if he's the Democrats candidate in 2020. Yes, he's from a small Liberal state - but he certainly proved his mettle - and broad appeal - when he ran against the Clinton Machine.
Stop doing the Republicans' work for them.
4
The idea that democrats get elected by centrist swing voters is as flawed and provably wrong a theory as trickle-down economics. Democrats win elections by turning out their core demographics. That means no candidate can win without turning out the youth vote, full stop. Bernie Sanders is likely the best option for winning this thing if no other candidate can speak to voters under 30.
5
As a presidential voter over the last twenty-five years, I've consistently preferred Democrats to Republicans. But given the choice between an avowed Socialist and a Republican, I'll certainly take the Republican. I suspect that millions of Americans are a lot like me in this regard.
5
@Rex Nemorensis
The faction formerly known as the Democratic Party no longer speaks for moderate liberals like ourselves.
We’re sick and tired of so-called ‘progressives’ and their virtue-signaling identity politics, reverse bigotry...not to mention their aiding, abetting ad nauseam on behalf of illegal aliens....i.e. Citizens Of Other Countries...against the best interests of the American citizenry.
Consequently, they’ve lost my vote, and won’t win it back anytime soon...if ever.
4
The only question is whether Bernie will be stopped by the Democrats at their convention or by the rest of us on election day. While I certainly would regret seeing another four years of Trump, perhaps the Democrats need another four years outside of the White House to learn again the lesson they temporarily learn in the wake of George McGovern's defeat: this country is not poor, not young, and not particularly radical.
8
Among the reasons I ain’t voting for Bernie in the primary: his fudging numbers on healthcare, his blah-blah on racial issues, his campiagn’s intolerance of criticism—-and the worshipfulness among way too many of his devotees.
Never fall in love with a pol, folks. Respect, admire, but never love.
8
The Democratic party should be very worried about Sanders. His "stick it to the elites" message applies equally to Democratic elites, who have largely abandoned labor and the rest of us for a life of triangulating to corporate interests. So bring it on NYTimes; all the smear pieces you can muster pointing out Sanders' "weaknesses" or "unelectability" are not going to stop this wave. They just make me question whether my $20 a month would be better spent on Bernie's campaign than on my Times subscription.
3
I strongly identify with progressive, socialist ideals, and Senator Sanders terrifies me. When he shouts, I hear his badly thought out ideas straight from 1978. I don't hear anything that I can trust except for the hypnotic shouting of the same three sentences over and over. I believe, for some reason, that he and his supporters, many of who chose to elect Trump, will re-elect him, for some perverse "stick it to the man" mania. Please listen to the other candidates. You can hear passion in their voices, too. Can't we all work together for the greater good? That's what I learned in the sixties.
8
Fake news is promoted when higher taxes are equated with moving to some universal health program:
The news is "fake" because it doesn't include the other "column" in expenses where health insurance is substantially reduced.
When will our discourse demand that the reality of higher taxes for universal health care is balanced by lower costs for health insurance?
Are we really lacking in column space to include that fundamental reality...or is the main idea simply to sabotage what we NEED and, as always, secure the status quo, the established.
It's also astounding that someone from the heartland believes that our economy is doing just fine. Yes, the fake news that statistics focused on employment rates and economic growth reveals are the voice of the status quo values papering over the gross inequality.
1
Pieces like this in the NYTimes are no surprise. Corporate Democrats (and, frankly, that's pretty much all of the announced candidates other than Bernie, Liz and - maybe - Kamala) will not address the core reasons that Donald Trump (a symptom, not the problem) won (or, more accurately, that Hillary lost). Unfortunately, not only democracy, but well regulated capitalism is at issue. We need an FDR or this experiment will continue down the slope to failure. The only candidates I see who can (given a progressive congress) are Bernie and/or Liz. Don't we all know that?
4
Instead of 'take down' articles The NYT would better serve the public, it's readers, by presenting the policies each candidate has to offer and stop trying to shot circuit their candidacies. This just privides fodder for ' the other side'.
1
Instead of “take down” comments from people like you, let’s reserve judgment on the point of view of the Times in general or its op-ed columnists in particular until we’ve read the *entire* article we’re so angrily complaining about ... since you obviously stopped after the first few paragraphs.
From the folks that brought us Hilary 2016
2
Yep...check out the big bucks going to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee by...well-who else ???health care Lobbyists /bundlers. Six degrees of separation by 'less' bought & paid for Dems doesn't do it for me.
https://readsludge.com/2019/04/23/health-industry-lobbyists-pump-more-money-into-democrats-congressional-campaign-arm/
2
He's angry and his followers are crazy. Sound like somebody else we know?
7
Trump is taking our country over a cliff and yet people are worried about Bernie Sanders? Please, people, get a grip.
2
What a fraud. The guy's not even a Democrat...
'Nuff said.
10
i truly do not understand why the democrats open their arms to let an independent run as a democrat. pay off? stupidity? want a winner on its side? don't care? don't like themselves? no platform that means anything?
all of the above?
6
I'm definitely one of those Dems scared of Bernie Sanders. The man reeks anger. No thanks!
13
Bernie's main problem is he is too old. That same problem is shared by Elizabeth Warren, Joe Biden and probably others. I am 68, myself, and if they seem too old to me, they must seem too old to Millenials and anyone younger.
Politically, I don't perceive Bernie as a Socialist. He is actually closer to a 1960's Liberal than any Democrat who rn for President after McGovern. I have been craving a real Democrat like Bernie ever since Jimmy Carer ran.
Unfortunately, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton & Hillary Clinton are center-right ,the equivalent of 1960's Rockefeller Republicans. At least Obama was center, but he was no liberal
But Bernie and Liz Warren are true Democrats, more in the tradition of FDR, Truman, JFK & LBJ (but without the warrrior tendencies).
The Dems and GOP both moved to the right after 1972. After that, the Dems have been center / center-right, whereas the GOP has become fascist, racist, bigotted against non-Christians and lovers of ignoance and lies. But the GOP still is a shill for billionaires.
To put the rightward shift into clear perspective, Nixon was the last President to advocate for Universal Healthcare, so by Edsall's perspective, I guess Nixon was a Repubican-Socialist.
Edsall is clueless regarding the current election.
I'm unsure who I will vote for in the NY Primary, but like most American voters, I will vote for the Democratic Presidential candidate in November 2020.
2
Can't we just let the campaign and debates really get going before declaring which Dem you'll "never vote for" or "only vote for?" Like him or not, Sanders (and Warren, et al) does have great ideas that should be debated and discussed over time. However, the efforts of corporate Dems, Republicans and Russian bots to tie those ideas to Sanders alone should demonstrate now scared they are of them and not the man himself.
2
Edsall talked to the brain trust behind Clinton II's 'stellar' performance. They are worried. I'm not. It is these Ivy League liberal apologists for capitalism that since, and including Vietnam, have been the authors of our present disaster.
5
After voting Democrat in every election since 1972, I may not vote again. I was for Bernie in 2016, but because of DWS and the DNC, we lost that election. I will never ever trust the Democrats again. Bill Clinton moved the Dems to the Center, Obama more so. Bernie would’ve brought them back to the values many of us espoused in the 60s and 70s, equality, pay equity, the power of the common man, getting rid of the war machine. But the new Dems, led by the Clintons all turned their backs on us. They are as greedy as the Republicans and it is apparent. There is no other candidates on the Democratic side I would support other than Bernie, so why should I vote? I voted for Hillary just to keep Trump out but that was a farce brought to us by CLINTON and DWS, not the Russians or Republicans. There is no longer anyone I can say I would vote for. I’d compromise, but even then, no one.....
3
The scope and size of Sanders proposals collectively are more than a mouthful. To disassemble private insurance and private hospitals and reorganize them into government entities under the banner of Medicare for all would take a herculean effort needing the full cooperation of all effected parties. This sort of massive change is what causes fear in many voters (mostly those with insurance). Several of Sanders big ideas carry that sort of baggage. Trump vs Sanders, right vs left, it's a coin toss. I need a sure thing. No Trump. No way.
2
I can't even believe he is running again. Didn't he already lose? Where are the media outlets questioning whether he should just "go away" like they say about female politicians? He lost as a Dem. If he wants to run as what he is, an Independent, I'd have a lot more respect for him. But right now, his running just screams "ego".
9
This portends a Trump second term. Every time I thought Trump could not be more inhumane, more idiotic, more narcissistic, and more unfit for office, he and his enablers set a new low only to be eclipsed a few days hence. I cannot think of anything worse than more of this administration. But a Sanders presidency, for different reasons, is awful to contemplate. And, therefore, I suspect many who cannot abide the current President, will sooner give him another four years by staying home on election day than have Sanders at the helm, me included.
4
There is zero chance I or anyone in my family will ever vote for Sanders. He helped torpedo Hillary Clinton. He aided and abetted Donald Trump. He took data from the DNC and then demonized it and the candidate. His personal history is dubious. His credentials are suspect. The people around him are disreputable and untrustworthy. His followers are beyond nasty. And his voting record is contemptible. "Never Sanders" is the national anthem of the Democratic Party.
14
@Richard M. Braun And, you might have added, for all the centuries he's spent in the Senate, one can't recall a SINGLE bill worthy of note that he's authored and got passed.
Can anyone tell me what this guy has actually got done? One or two things? Please?
13
Of course we can’t nominate Bernie! That’s why AOC is in the bullpen and will be elected in 2020!
What a silly title.
If Bernie Sanders "scares" so "many people," then he won't get the nomination to begin with.
The one who is "scared" of Bernie Sanders is clearly you, but don't presume to speak for the rest of us.
3
Everyone, Republucan and Democrat, who are bashing Bernie said the exact same things about Obama in 2007-2008.
1
At least it is progress than we can read an article about Bernie that does not mention he is Jewish. On another note, the holier-than-tho (self-sabotaging) Lefties concern me a whole lot more than the Right. The right organizes around a common enemy or for a common goal -- some of these left-leaning folks would not be happy if happiness was given to them (i.e. always need to find something wrong and always have to be totally right, not realizing everyone gets a say). Peace and shalom to all.
2
As NYT hit jobs go, this is one of the crudest-- and there sure have been a lot!. I would think that Mr Edsall would not want to tarnish his reputation with "Democratic operative" garbage from Clinton dead enders. I believe Bush, Clinton, Obama and others did some naughty things in their youth, and the American people had no trouble looking past it all. The fictitious suburban female swing voter is not afraid of Bernie Sanders-- his opponent isn't exactly Mr Boy Scout. And the Republicans among them had zero trouble voting for Trump then, now, or ever.
4
History has taught Socialists since 1848 that, when the crunch comes, the so-called "liberal" bourgeoisie will ally with the vile reactionaries they always denounce--if it is a question of stopping the political power of the working class. This article is the signal of another such turn. . . . When the rank and file Democrats nominate Senator Sanders and he is ahead in the Presidential race, as impossible as this sounds, such is their antipathy toward Socialism that, in November 2020 The New York Times will endorse the re-election of President Donald Trump!
1
Pete Buttigieg recently noted, correctly, that Sanders supporters have a lot in common with Trump supporters. You know what else is a commonality? Russia/Putin told its bots to target Trump...and Sanders, that those were the two Russia wanted in the WH, and definitely not Hillary. What does that tell you?
6
Let the hot pieces begin. Discuss sanders writing from the 1970’s! I am sitting on the fence but am leaning Sanders because of the lack of policy alternatives from the Democrats
Bernie runs as a Democrat, but refuses to join the party. After all, he has been demonizing the Democrats for years, if he changes now he would lose face. Bernie isn't a womanizing criminal like the president, but he certainly has the ego and he certainly doesn't play well with others either. It's Bernie's way or get out of the way. I don't know what the attraction to him represents, likewise, he could win the Dem primary, but how can any sane and sober person honestly think that a socialist with a history of honeymooning in and visiting foreign socialist/communist/dictatorships could possibly win in the general election. The Republicans have held their fire on him, hoping (again) that he runs against their candidate. If he does, expect the video showing Bernie singing with Communists in Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7NA_RZ8UfE to figure prominently in their attack ads. Give me a break, and give my 100-year-old mother a gift of electing a Democrat this time.
7
@Genugshoyn
So you think Bernie will not be elected because he is Jewish? Have you looked at Ukraine lately, one of the most anti Semitic nations in the world? It now has a Jewish Prime Minister and President. I think to go up against Trump, you need a Bernie Sanders. He’s the only candidate I have seen with a charisma to match Trump’s.
3
As much as I agree with many of Bernie’s policies I do think he is too old to be president. I wish he had picked a younger standard-bearer to back instead of putting himself back in the race. There are enough old men in Washington, Democrats need someone younger who can lead the next generation and truly inspire a movement for years to come.
4
From a purely practical perspective, let’s say Bernie wins, and Democrats abolish the filibuster, or engage in some other maneuver that enables them to pass legislation with a bare majority (I hope that they don’t try anything through reconciliation, since that can result in deformed laws).
Democrats will be lucky to get to 50 or 51 members in the Senate. We cannot expect a single Republican to vote for Medicare for All, or the Green New Deal.
But here’s the kicker — we can’t expect all the Democrats to vote for it either. Joe Manchin certainly won’t. Feinstein won’t. The few pickup opportunities we have are in conservative states.
That means we’re going to get what the moderates are running on: major improvements to the ACA, and hopefully a green infrastructure bill. Certainly not a revolution.
Of course, step 1 must be to win the presidency, period.
2
True, the tenet of Bernie Sanders's policy proposals has been adopted by a majority of Democrats. But the texture of those policies is sensed by the majority of Americans as too extreme.
Regardless of where the reality is, this perception maybe ruinous for Democrats in 2020. Sanders doesn't see it that way. He's a little intoxicated, not unlike Hillary Clinton was in 2016.
If Sanders is the nominee, it could result in president Trump's reelection, which will be disastrous.
3
Lost in the talk of positive vision is the ease with which a candidate can be demonized.
The sad fact is that it does not matter what exactly Bernie stands for; what matters is how he can be caricatured.
1
I'm a dem and Bernie is my last choice as a Dem candidate. I'ld still vote for him over Trump.
8
@Dolly Patterson
'I' a dem' too. Though Bernie isn't my first choice, I would enthusiastically vote for him.
My first choice now is Pete Buttigieg. Mitch Landrieu was my first choice. But he chose not to jump in.
I am fantasizing that Joe Biden would ask him to be his running mate & that he would accept it. That would be a formidable ticket.
1
The problem with our system is that let's say it's 50% Dem and 50% republican. You get 2/3 of the Dem primary vote, that's 33% of USA. Somebody else gets 2/3 of the Republican primary vote, that's again 33% of the USA. So you have head to head two candidates of which whoever wins, 66% of the electorate don't really want, either because he isn't their party and/or wasn't their primary choice. This is about what happened in 2016. No wonder people look at the tickets and think, Jeez, how did we get DJT, or jeez, how did we get Hillary? Next time, jeez, how did we get DJT vs Bernie?
If Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are the best that the United States can do, then it might be time to ask England to take us back.
4
@Maggie -- If you can't see the value in Bernie Sanders and his policies that seek a more productive, less violent society, then it might be time for you to go elsewhere.
Btw, the UK (the sovereign state of which England is part) has -- GASP -- socialized medicine.
3
@Doro Wynant
If you see the value in Bernie Sanders it might be time for you to go elsewhere.
2
I just don't want either Bernie or Biden and wish with all my heart that neither was running.
Enough with old white men. If we have to have a white male president, let it be one of the many other white guys running. There's plenty of experience, accomplishments and ideas to be found in many of the other Democratic candidates (some of the best of them women!)
8
White supremacists also vote based on the skin color of the candidate. Did you know that discriminating against people based on the color of their skin is racist- even if it directed at white people?
1
@Larry - you forgot sexist!
I'm old and white but I am really tired of old, white, men telling the rest of the world what to do. Call it identity politics if you like, I think of it as time for other voices, other experiences and other worlds to be at the head of the table.
Witness the value that the newly elected representatives are bringing with their real-world life experiences.
4
Based on his erratic performance at a recent CNN townhall, his nomination for the presidency should concern democrats and independents who want to see Trump relegated to the dustbin of history. Other democratic candidates, (Biden, Buttigieg, Klobachar, and Warren would be far better suited to unite progressive and centrist voters especially in critical mid west swing states. In 2016, most pundits and media said that 'Donald Trump could never be elected president". We should not squander the opportunity to make this a self fulfilling prophecy in 2020.
3
To get a wider base among Independents and Democrats, Bernie just needs to tell the truth - He is NOT a socialist. He just needs point to his website and ask socialist namesayers which policies propose public ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods and services! Medicaid for all still relies on the privately owned service providers and business.
2
When Bernie opened his 2016 campaign with giant West Coast rallies, the Times couldn't be bothered to send a reporter. The Times is the voice of liberal America, but only for the affluent liberals. There is no use in conflating the terms social democracy and democratic socialism: Social democrats champion the cradle-to-grave welfare state while democratic socialists believe in direct union or state ownership of leading companies and industries. Most wealthy countries are social democratic while socialist parties are weakening. And by the way, Denmark has a minimum wage of $20/hr. The Blair/Clinton plutocratic models have harmed the working classes.
3
Bernie and Biden share one problem in common with Trump: they are all too old and too stuck in the past to be president. Trump has many other issues, mainly his mental instability and narcissism but all of them are, in my opinion as an older woman, just too old. We need fresh ideas and fresh approaches. Their time has passed.
3
Is it 1887? I found it really hard to read past the Murphy and Jaffe excerpts. Are they supposed to be worrisome? What century do you think this is, exactly? I don't mean to be disrespectful, but the train where those views and actions are negative left the station a loooong time ago. He said that stress causes cancer and that 16 year old girls should be allowed to love?!?! And he used a landlord's electrical outlet in college? Gasp!!! Am I missing something? Maybe this article is only for readers born before 1940. Nothing wrong with that I guess... But for the rest of us: moving on. It's the 21st century. Please catch up if you're going to write for the paper of record.
2
It’s not Bernie it’s his supporters. Everyday I hear them say” if Bernie’s not on the ticket then I’m not voting”. They don’t understand that they are as fanatical as trump supporters. Bernie should run as an independent.
5
Trump is an un-electable candidate who was elected. I get not trusting the same experts who told us Trump was impossible to assess Bernie's odds, but I do think it's worth noting that they are not considered un-electable for the same reasons. Trump tapped into something dark and ugly in the American electorate that a lot of us refused to acknowledge and were surprised to find is as prevalent as it is. I'm not convinced there is a similarly ignored undercurrent of enthusiasm for European-style progressive policies.
3
I agree with those who compare Bernie's "unelectable" status with the same conferred on Trump in 2015. He should give it a huge go.
That said, I think Bernie will rub the swing voters wrong with calls for race based reparations and allowing felons to vote. Once Donald finishes twisting Dzhokar Tsarnaev around Bernie's neck, Bernie will carry Vermont, California and the District of Columbia, and remain forever a quixotic footnote on the order of Gerry Ferraro.
3
It can't be any worse than it is now.
2
The central and omnipresent concern is can Bernie beat Trump in the 2020 elections?
Answer: He just cannot do it.
Therefore, I sincerely hope he is firmly thrust aside by the Democrats and the running candidate is someone else.
His nomination would turn-off so many Democrat voters that they might even stay home. We gotta give him the "bum's rush" somehow otherwise we go down to Fascism.
I am Bernie's age and present more youthful and vigorous than he. Actually he looks and presents older than his age. Moreover, he projects an image of a zany ecentric character that just cannot be taken seriously and his manpower valuse is weak and fragile.
He trully seems to be only a notch or so lower than Trump on the egomania scale.
The bottom line is he can't bring it off.
4
Brief Apologia for St. Bernard:
"He's a narcissist." A narcissist would not stand up (in Chicago) for minority rights and go to jail twice for protesting against abuses. Would Trump, Hillary, or even Joe Biden do that? A narcissist would do everything he can to enrich himself. Bernie has been a public servant, the real thing, his entire adult life. He could retire and put all this stress behind him, but he keeps fighting for the little guy against Corporate America.
"He's a socialist." Yes, he calls himself that, but, first, our politics has moved so far to the extreme right that it leaves him far to the left, and, second, look at what he wants: universal health care, free college tuition, government-supported daycare, student debt relief, a Green New Deal with an ambitious jobs program, strong climate-conscious environmental regulations, massive investment in public housing and education, a national $15 minimum wage, an expansion of Social Security, a ban on predatory lending, strong pro-union legislation, an end to corporate tax giveaways, mandatory paid sick and family leave and vacation, gender pay equity laws, the dismantling of private detention centers, demilitarization of the police, a ban on for-profit prisons, an end to the War on Drugs, an end to voter suppression, stopping illegal bombings and dronings, a non-interventionist foreign policy, and on and on. If that's "socialist," it sure sounds good to my Democratic ears.
Check him out yourself.
6
The pundits and politicians warning about Sanders' electability are the same clueless crowd that presided over the great shrinkage of the Democratic Party.
In 1960, 50 percent of eligible American voters were registered as Democrats; today, 29 percent are. Throughout the second half of the 20th Century, Democrats dominated state politics in both legislative and gubernatorial races. Since 2010, Republicans have dominated at both the State and federal level. Until the 2018 midterms -- in which Democrats veered to the left -- Republicans controlled both legislative branches and the governorship in 25 states, while Democrats had total control of just 6 states.
And quoting the Mercatus Report without also noting that it concluded Americans would save money on net is just plain disingenuous.
Finally, chasing polls is how Democrats lost ground -- shaping them is how Republicans -- despite being a minority party -- gained ground.
But is guess asking the people who shaped the Democrats' decline makes sense if you've been steeped in neoliberal dogma.
3
The ultimate horror for establishment democrats is not second term for Trump, but a Sanders victory. The class interests of the Democratic insiders and their pundit orbiters are far more aligned with the incumbent. They don’t want things like affordable healthcare, demilitarization, and funding for public infrastructure, because their lobbyists and patrons won’t let them. The republicans being in power is a perfect situation for them; they can claim to care about the peoples’ problems, but then they can shoot down every concrete plan to benefit the people. They can whine about practicality and electability while they chase the republicans into the far-right fever swamp. It’s an ideal situation for them, they can fatten themselves off of their state-guaranteed salaries and benefits, and use their lobbyist payoffs for luxuries. Bernie would clean them all out, and that’s why they’re afraid of him. They should be, because the American people are less and less interested in supporting a do-nothing party with no regard for their well-being.
3
I have been an R all my life. In 2016 I could not vote for either Trump or Hillary. Right or wrong, I sat it out. In 2020, with Sanders running as the Democrat, I'll be in same position. Hopefully, Dems can find someone from this Planet who has some sound ideas, some competence and doesn't lie. Simple, right?
2
The last time we nominated a person from the center (third way politics) we lost. If you want to energize the center and left leaning people of our country, you have to give them a reason to organize, raise money from regular folks, and finally (and most importantly) get out and vote. Bernie Sanders is the person who can achieve this. Neoliberal Dem candidates, such as Joe Biden, will not gain the popularity needed to defeat Trump and his cult of followers. Give people a reason to vote and they shall come out in droves. Rely on corporate/PAC and big money donations and we will lose, again.
4
Sanders can't win, whether running as a Democrat or as an Independent. A vote for him is a vote for Trump. Not voting is a vote for Trump. The only question is why does Bernie want America to suffer four more years under Trump?
1
Bernie scares people because Republicans are terrific at spin.
Bernie wants us to have a country similar to Denmark.
If Americans, minus some of he billionaire class, got a chance to see Denmark, everyone would want what Bernie wants.
They have:
universal health care
less poverty
better schools for the working class
some higher education
child care
better economic mobility
maternity leave
On the other hand we have parts of the US with infant mortality rates of a second world country and the highest incarceration rate in the world.
After 35 years of trickle-down Reaganomics, we got an opioid crisis.
4
@Independent
Most of those that pay federal taxes do not want Denmark. I do not want to pay anymore taxes than i do now. Frankly i would like to pay less.
1
I supported Sanders in the 2016 primaries, but voted Clinton in the general election. My support for Bernie was predicated on the general contours of his proposals, universal health, reduction of income inequality and trimming — really whacking — the military industrial state currently prevailing. But my support was tempered by the fact that his policies were, shall we say, underbaked. The problem was that no one else was stepping up to challenge Hillary. This year, it’s a different story, and I would rather go with Warren, whose ideas are well laid out in concrete form. Problem is, on the campaign trail she comes off like a schoolmarm rather than a fire-in-the-belly speaker. If we could marry Bernie’s passion and projection to Elizabeth’s brain, we might have the perfect candidate.
3
Really good article, but it leaves out one of the most important aspects of a potential Sanders candidacy. That's voter excitement and voter turnout. Lots of experience tells us that when excitement and turnout go up, more Democrats win, up and down the ballot. One of the scariest aspects of the overall campaign so far, is the mainstream Democrats' tendency to think making Trump the bogeyman will win them the election. They seem trapped inside their own corporate/beltway bubble. The Lesserofevils strategy worked for Democrats for a few decades, but with wealth polarization making things desperate for many more people, someone seen a another ho-hum candidate will repress Democratic turnout. Desperation will cause many people to turn out for someone seen as a true change candidate, and that desperation will cause people to vote for Trump even if they're disgusted by him. And more flowery "If only we could just get along..." speech-making will no longer work to convince people that the candidate can bring actual change. Nobody can attract new voters, and nobody can raise voter excitement and turnout, like Sanders can. Not even close.
1
Contrary to what some of the commenters here are reasoning, the Democratic gains made in the midterms were not left liberal candidates like Sanders, they were moderate liberal candidates—which is where a majority of the population sits.
I like Bernie, but his one liners are old. He’s not right about a lot of things. And y’all, c’mon, he’s old. And what has he accomplished really? I mean really? What major legislation has he shepherded through congress that actually got a vote and passed?
6
One question: How many of Mr. Edsall’s “experts” were convinced in 2016 that Hillary Clinton was a sure thing to beat Trump?
My guess is most of them. I just want to know why we are now supposed to take their powers of prognostication so seriously.
The truth is that they aren’t scared of Bernie losing to Trump. They know that the polling has consistently shown him winning in such a match up since the question was first posed in 2016. Their real fear is that he will win and actually do the things he promises because that would threaten many of their livelihoods far more than Trump has.
5
Apparently you haven’t noticed that the polarization in Congress guarantees that major social legislation that’s the least bit controversial has *zero* chance of being enacted into law. The things Sanders touts on the campaign trail will be stonewalled by the Republicans and we’ll simply swap one brand of angry populism for another.
1
@Christopher: Nobody expected James Comey to nuke Hillary with Anthony Weiner's purportedly un-tested computer at the peak of early voting in the week before the election.
4
I will vote for whoever wins the Democratic nomination. That said, I dread the thought that it could be Sanders. Yes, we need to move well along the path to a more progressive capitalism, or democratic socialism, or whatever you want to call policies that address inequality effectively and repair our tattered social safety net. BUT...
I think Sanders would be slaughtered by the Republican attack machinery, which we know is extremely effective and not at all hesitant to use exaggeration and distortion, or even outright lies. His history, his style, and his policies give them way too much ammo. He might win by the skin of his teeth, but he might very well not. As Edsall points out, he has never competed in a general election that involves a lot of centrist and right-wing voters. It's absurd to project from a Vermont Senate race to a national presidential election.
I really hope one of the other 19 candidates catches fire and gives us a nominee we can be excited about. And incidentally, someone who might have a higher odds of being able to run for re-election in 2024, when Bernie will be 82.
5
@Eliza: Corporations were conceived as democracies of shareholders electing representative boards of directors.
I'm sorry, but this kind of play-to-the-center, may the most milquetoast win, "socialism" scaremongering and various other forms of hemming and hawing went out the window long ago. There has been a wealth of reporting in the past few years about the myth of the "independent" voter, but the real statistics are that even by the dawn of the 21st century the percentage of voters who were actually open to voting for either party had dwindled into the single digits. Now, that is enough to swing some elections, but as GWB's team figured out in 2004 (and every successful candidate has done since) the bigger boosts are coming from those who are *energized* to actually get out and vote for the candidate who would have aligned more closely with their political beliefs anyway. That is something that Trump's team clearly understands and takes advantage of - as this newspaper itself reported, a significant fraction of people at his rallies these days are ones who *did not* vote even in 2016.
The conventional wisdom about Sanders being off-putting to voters is vastly overblown. It's long past time for the kind of ideas that he represents and the kind of vision he brings to the table. This isn't the 60s, Sanders isn't McGovern, and we have a playing field and younger generation that understands the risks of sitting this one out. We've been through horror these past few years - I for one am supporting and voting for real change.
5
@NS Thank you. It's amazing how these "political operatives" have not caught on to this.
1
The last election proves there is no real way to predict who and how many will vote for whom, so why quit trying to determine which candidate will be most palatable to the majority and just vote for whomever supports the policies we really want? In my case that would be health care and education for all, more humane treatment of everyone, and sane gun control. There's nothing moderate about Trump, so why are we advocating for Democratic moderation? Hillary was shoved down our throats in 2016 as the most electable," and while I of course voted for her given the alternative, many I've spoken to since explain they voted for Trump for the sole reason that they "hated her." They say they would have voted for Bernie had she not been the Dem candidate....
2
Just a few years ago articles were saying Trump had no chance of winning. Look how that turned out. I voted for Clinton in the last Democratic Primary instead of Bernie but no way will Biden or any of the other "safe" "party approved" choices get my vote next time. We're tired of being the vast liberal logical majority in the USA but being given only weak minimal representation as the radical right illogical minority guts our once great country for the benefit of the 0.01%. I say Sanders-Warren 2020.
7
Notice how in order to discredit Mr. Sander’s proposals, Mr. Edsall chose to utilize quotes from a libertarian think-tank and an economist whose work was been featured by the Hoover Institute, an organization whose mission statement includes quotes such as: “Both our social and economic systems are based on private enterprise from which springs initiative and ingenuity … Ours is a system where the federal government should undertake no governmental, social or economic action, except where local government, or the people, cannot undertake it for themselves .” Meaning that he has purposely chosen to utilize the work of scholars and institutions whose ideological framework negates much of what the Democratic Party supposedly stands for in order to substantiate an argument as to why Bernie’s supposed ideological stridency would render him ineffective as a candidate. At its best, this an attempt to substantiate his argument by any means necessary. But in reality, it is most likely an insight as to how much corporate interests and free market orthodoxy have corrupted our political system and stifled the nature of our discourse – even as that paradigm breakdown before our very eyes. It is time to push people like Mr. Edsall aside so we can focus at the issues at hand instead of falling for pray to the same arguments have decreased our quality of life and to help elect Trump in the first place.
12
After November 2016 Bill Maher observed that the Democratic Party, who didn't want to blow its chance to recapture the White House with Sanders, ought to have paid more attention to the candidate that actually generated all the excitement in their party. I think he was right. The RNC didn't want Trump, but their base defied the establishment and won. Remember the horrible (and truthful) things Ted Cruz said about Trump? Now they're BBFs. Democrats are good at forming circular firing squads and flourishes of useless integrity, but unless they are closet Trumpists, NEVER SAY NEVER.
1
Bernie was one of the reasons Hillary lost. He undermined the system by constantly calling it rigged and went after Hillary personally. His policies would get us to an 80% tax rate. After years in the Senate with so little accomplished, Sanders would be a unifying force for the GOP.
7
It should be clear to everyone that independent voters in swing states will determine the outcome of the 2020 election. It isn't Democratic turnout in blue states. That doesn't garner any added electoral college delegates. If Trump is to be defeated, a much harder task than many contemplate given the power of incumbency, the Democrats must have a message that resonates with those voters and a candidate that can articulate it effectively. I don't think Sanders and his policies will succeed in that.
6
As long as both parties have a lock on the system no 3rd party candidate will ever succeed. The Green Party has never once succeeded. But within a couple years the Justice Democrats have gotten people into office. The only way the barriers will come down is for people within the system are dedicated to pulling them down.
The media is trying to marginalize Bernie using every tool in their tool chest despite his lead. When that isn't working, then comes scare tactics. Once again the media puts its thumb on the scale.
3
The political establishment fears nothing more than politicians who are serious about taking big money out of election campaigns. They will do what they can to undercut Sanders and any other real progressives who are attractive to voters. We can make a better nation, or we can keep professional political operatives happy. We cannot do both.
7
@civiletti
Where is the big money in politics spent? Media. Radio - TV - Print and most recently The Web. Look at the corporate diversity of major players and you'll find some that cover all four.
No wonder why at times it feels like the press is trying to gin up a horse race. Ca-Ching!
When Democrats push for center right policies e.g. Subsidies for for profit insurance, they're labeled socialist. When Democrats push for centrist policies, e.g. tax rates of the 90's, they're labeled socialist. No matter how far to the right the Democrats move, republicans will label them socialists.
How about showing some bravery and charisma for a change, stand up for what you believe is right, and stop cowering every time you're called a socialist?
Here's all you have to say the next time you're called a socialist: "Folks, for years republicans have been using that label as a scare tactic to instill fear for policies that benefit the average American household. At one point or another, republicans have claimed that public schools, roads, bridges/tunnels, clean public water, sanitation, snow removal, police, firefighters, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid Nursing Home care, protections for pre existing conditions, lower taxes on the less well off etc are socialism. They say this as they grow the scale and scope of government spending and debt every single time they control the government. Therefore, having said that, Republicans can take their claims of socialism and shove them right back up their (blank)."
8
The real problems in the last election were Jill Stein’s third Green Party and hacked DNC emails revealing its underhanded treatment of Sanders.The Green Party alone siphoned off enough votes in critical swing states to have cost Clinton II the election.
1
@God
Nothing in the primaries were underhanded and nothing of that sort was "revealed" by DNC emails, other than that the Democratic Party thought a Democrat ought be the party's presidential nominee and then president.
2
What really turned me off Bernie for good was how he attacked Clinton (which was later used against her in the election), and once she won the nomination he did not rally his troops to get out and vote for her. He was a sulking, bitter man, acting like a petulant child who did not get his way. Those actions helped elect Trump. For that I will never forgive him and hope that he is not the nominee.
15
@RAR: Bernie held out to the last hoping that Hillary would get taken down by the e-mail issue, which would have made him the nominee by default.
4
Bernie is about as much of a socialist as was FDR (which is to say, quite a bit). I wonder if Edsall is taking Acemoglu's writings out of context because the way they are described in this article it appears that Acemoglu does not understand the difference between socialism in Western Europe and totalitarianism in countries such as Cuba. The idea that socialist countries such as Sweden did not attain prosperity by taxing and redistributing (downward) is laughable: that is exactly how they did it, with progressive tax rates. Progressive taxation also helped build U.S. middle-class prosperity before Reagan began the process of taxing and redistributing wealth upward.
Edsall's arguments seem premised on the belief that a president makes economic policy alone. President Sanders will have to work with Congress, and it is unlikely that all of his proposals will pass. But he will be able to move the country in a more fair and equitable direction.
10
Centrists fulminate against Sen. Sanders and act as though he is some sort of bomb-throwing radical, when the truth is that he is basically a New Deal Democrat. That is, to say, Sanders represents the values that the Democratic Party used to stand for before the Clintons steered it toward the center.
12
@Chris Rasmussen
And how did that left of center socialism work out from 1968 - 1992?
It didn't even work for LBJ from 1964 - 1968.
3
@Maggie Humphrey? Carter? Mondale? Dukakis?
Bernie is not my first choice. But he deserves a fair chance to win the nomination, something he did not have in2016, when the Limousine Liberal fix was in. Had he been nominated he wouldn’t have ignored the rust belt or insulted working people.
Me? I’d like Sherrod Brown to reconsider and run. I like Klobuchar too, though not the stories about her being an abusive boss.
Brown is progressive yet pragmatic. Experienced without seeming old news. Not a screaming name caller but a sober, thoughtful adult. He could win back the rust belt and the working class vote.
He could beat Trump. He would govern much more wisely.
2
Fortunately the NYT comments section will not decide the election, nor will its editorial writers, or even its readers. Sanders speaks directly to the working class. He has the strongest support of people of color compared to any candidate now, even Biden (look it up). We are going to read a lot about how scary he is, and how socialism alienates people, and how he can't win. Meanwhile, millions are supporting him, and it's growing every day. It's not about him, it's about us. Join us.
10
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Bernie Sanders excepts maybe he is a generation or two ahead of his time.
C'mon America...it's time to catch up to our better angels.
11
@rlk I would hardly consider imitation of Europe to be ahead of one’s time.
There ere no political analysts or pollsters who predicted Trump would win.
Enough said.
3
"What happens if he's the nominee in 2020?"
I vote for him! I vote for any Democrat who is running, that's what I do!
4
Wish I could say the same but if the DNC forces Biden down our throats, I think I will regurgitate this time. Don’t think I can stomach voting for him. Held my nose for Hillary last time. Don’t think I’ll tow the line this time.
The baggage of Sanders which includes his age pushing 80 in his presidency ,the tagline "socialist" read commie, his policy agenda of free health care,free tuition sound great like ice cream for all and the rich will pay for it. Not going to happen in the real world as those 80 yr old republican senators would never put any burden on the donor class ever. Sanders can be the spoiler again staying in the election til the end destroying the democrat front runner ensuring the re-election of Trump who would bang the socialist drum 24/7. Sanders will write another book and make another million ,what me worry back to the senate oh well!
7
Indpendent voters are over 40% of the electorate in America. Indpendent voters decide the general election for President. The party folks get to decide the primaries.
It would be interesting to know which candiate would be the preference of independents in 2020 (Bernie versus Donald)?
Too many readers of the Times make the mistake of selecting a candiate without thinking how they will fare against their opponent. Along with 'how will it play in Peoria' is how elections are won or lost....
2
What happens if he’s the nominee in 2020? He will win and become president!
6
"What happens if he's the nominee in 2020?"
Well, Tom, here's what I'm gonna do! I'm going to vote for him. That's my plan. And if it's another Democrat? Well! I will vote for him/her, as well. Very simple.
6
Aren't we past nominating old politicians with massive baggage? (Hillary was no exception)
1
Trump is president and you are worried that Sanders is 'too socialist'?? Perhaps that's exactly what you need. By the way, with single payer healthcare for all in Canada, our government spends less on healthcare that you do with your 'system'.
8
The Democratic party has for too long been the party of corporate interests not the party of the common man. That is why fake Democrats are so scared of Bernie. He appeals directly to the people not to corporate interests and fat cats.
Stale old Democrats should be scared of him as should be stale Republicans. Trump is much more scary than "Socialism" to most Americans. Bernie's positive reception on Fox news proves that he can appeal directly to the people Including Democrats and disappointed Trump Republicans.
6
Wow. Where to start. First I would like to see an article on Bernie where his "positives" take up more than the last few paragraphs of the article. Edsall makes all kinds of wild assumptions, like Sanders' early writings on sex will be a big liability...like Trump’s numerous extramarital affairs and sexual assaults, hushmoney payoffs and surely crimes more serious were a big liability for him? Edsall trots out a lot of economists basically calling Bernie a fool. Paying for Sanders’ proposals (Medicare for all, tuition free college, etc.) can be paid for by taxing the rich and wall street more appropriately, and perhaps by not pouring money into the military industrial complex and our penchant for endless war. Edsall has a total disconnect here to what makes our healthcare the most expensive (with a lot of worse outcomes) in the world. Reforming our healthcare system account would account for a huge chunk of savings right there. Edsall says Democrats are banking on making the 2020 election a referendum on Trump. REALLY? That's terrifying. Hillary showed what happens when you do that. We are not in “normal” times...the American people don’t want another Hillary-light (Biden) status-quo candidate, where nothing will improve for the 99%. This is a great hit piece on Bernie right before Biden’s big announcement. I challenge NYT to publish a positive opinion piece on Bernie tomorrow.
13
@JK excellent, truthful commentary here! You hit the right points, NYT and Edsall are again launching another hit job on the only guy who can win on the issues. The issues Bernie champions are what will sink Trump. The other Republican-lites like Biden are Hillary2!
1
The Republicrats, the one-party, insider, corporate-dominated establishment that has called the electoral shots in this country at least since Van Buren, are terrified they are losing their hold, and will do everything they can to defeat Bernie (again). And they may.
But this time is different. This time we, the people, are angry, and if we are angry enough to elect a sociopathic fascist, then we may just be able to come together in this critical election to put an outsider in the White House and forward thinkers in the Senate.
If we don't, if we return Trump (unthinkable!) or put another establishment stooge in the WH, then the anger will only increase.
With climate change threatening our civilization, with inequality threatening our social cohesion, the time is now--or the time may be never.
1
NYT...YOU are the ones who are scared. It is so early and you guys are already publishing one smear piece after another, like daily. But it won’t work. As should have been clear after Bernie’s Fox News town hall, the rest of America is very on board with his thinking and policies. If so called moderate Dems want to go down the same road again, they’re going to lose again. Shift left or become irrelevant. The pro elite, live or die by ruthless capitalism Democratic Party has NO electoral base. Who could possibly want to vote for a candidate who is backed by massive corporations (banking, insurance, weapons) and who represents some mash up of domestic technocracy and foreign imperialism? Unless you play the identity card, which people are already starting to see through as the farce that it is, you’re going to just have to hope elite money polishes Bernie’s opponent enough to make them seem human. Bernie style New Deal Dems are the future. Not NYT style centrists who would have been right wingers like 35 years ago...
12
@Tim bravo, well said, and the truth.
1
This article is yet another example of the divisive diversion tactics used by the elite to distract the dying middle and lower classes from their shrinking paychecks and growing income inequality. For the past half-century the rich have been getting richer and the poor have been getting poorer, and now that a strong presidential contender is finally shining a light on the American oligarchy the corporate media can only deride, complain, and attempt to use their money to bury him. It’s disgusting.
11
I see NYT is at it AGAIN. Because of course, they didn’t learn from the last election debacle.
Bernie is an EXTREMELY popular candidate and he is unbeholden to corporate interest. In fact, that is EXACTLY what scares democrats who want to maintain the Golden Age style status quo.
I for one, will continue to hold NYT accountable and I will continue to contribute to Bernie’s campaign and support his candidacy in every way possible.
As for you NYT, please stop dreaming up flames to fan. You know darn well that Pelosi, DNC et al, are working hard behind the scenes to undermine and block Bernie (you reported that just last week).
Bernie’s ideas and plans are good for all Americans who are not exceedingly wealthy. He has my vote!
15
The title of this piece sums it up. Tone deaf Democrats who do not want Bernie to win.
Signed, lifelong Democrat
4
Ah, the "Bernie Bugaboo!" When Kristal, Edsall, Rove, and a bunch of other never-Trumpers start to raise it in public you know there's a reason. "What if the choice is Bernie or Trump?" is all the rage now in conservative circles. Who will step in to save the day? Gosh, looks like a job for Mitt!
1
What happens? Maybe we’ll get Medicare for All and reasonable college tuition costs again, in addition to the many public-oriented services government is supposed to provide. Go Bernie!
10
Mr Edsall,
Here are some simple facts. If the Democrats nominate Bernie Sanders as their candidate, I will contribute to him and work and vote for him. If the Democrats nominate Biden or some other centrist, corporate Democrat indebted to big money, I will not vote for the Democratic candidate and offer no support whatsoever.
Politicians of the last 26 years, including centrist, corporate Democrats Bill and Hillary Clinton, Obama and Biden, have left us in our current condition: catastrophic climate change, endless wars, governance corrupted by big money, broken healthcare, unaffordable housing and post secondary education, ever growing wealth disparity, crumbling and inadequate infrastructure.
With your abundant research skills, find out how many Americans feel the same way I do and if that will influence the 2020 election.
Democrats lose all credibility as supporters of the poor, the working and middle classes by nominating Biden or similar centrist, corporate Democrat, and Democrats will lose in 2020 with such a candidate.
5
I’m with you that! Biden-NEVER!
2
I voted for B. Sanders in the 2016 primary. But I'm of the school that if you were rejected by your party once, even if you get the nomination the second time you will, most likely, not win the White House. Over the course of several election cycles I laughed at the Republicans for doing exactly that. I couldn't understand how they couldn't see the pattern. Now I'm saddened to see the Democrats are in line to repeat the same mistake. We already did it with H. Clinton, are we going to do it again with B. Sanders?
6
@Gichigami
Ronald Reagan. Richard Nixon.
1
If Sanders is the Democratic nominee, I will vote for him.
7
When Bernie Sanders becomes a Democrat, then he can run as Democrat. You can't have it both ways.
10
If Sanders is the D nominee, even if the fact would not ensure a third party candidate to further split the Democratic electorate, we should prepare for four more years of Trump and/or Pence. That's because the swing state "undecideds" who actually, if bizarrely, decide the election / Electoral College, will be oh-so-easily persuaded that Bernie is way too scary a prospect. Bear in mind also that anyone who, nearing election day, might be "undecided" (and there will be more than enough to sway the election) will not think Trump is really so bad - many will have already voted for him once, making that act acceptable in their minds.
With Trump thus renewed, the entire world will feel the burn to an even greater degree than is already certain. Yes, that's "burn" as in all the consequences of completely unaddressed climate change, just one of many unnecessary disasters that a Sanders nomination would render inevitable. Needless to say, those who might still "Feel the Bern" will subsequently blame everybody else in order to maintain their righteousness and avoidance of reality - weirdly mirroring people who wear MAGA hats. MAGA hat wearers will think of Bernie voters as "losers," since that's what Trump will tell them, but every creature on earth will be losers at that point.
1
Trump scares a lot of people. What if he were currently president of the United States?
2
It is possible Sanders could win , not because all democrats are enamoured by this fire breathing disheveled man , but because it will come to anyone but Trump ; or sit out the election . It's possible many may feel better "the devil we know " than a snowy wild haired old socialist . It's still up in the air , but one thing we can count on is America penchant for voting against their own best interest . I hope Bernie is not the nominee . Surely we can do better with the choices we have ; I will vote for the candidate who best presents how he or she will fulfill their promises and pay for them .
4
@ s.whether
"I will not vote for anyone else, the DNC stole
my vote for Bernie last time."
Don't be ridiculous. Bernie lost, fair and square. And if you have even an ounce of love for this country, you will vote for a Democratic ham sandwich, if necessary, to prevent Trump from being re-elected.
We cannot afford and you do not have the privilege of ideological purity. This country is in historic, constitutional crisis. It is your duty as a citizen to help save it. We can go back to fighting about the best way to ensure universal health care AFTER we right the ship.
5
It seems we can "afford" trillion dollar tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, to give twice as much to the World Bank as we spend on food stamps, to tolerate the most wasteful health care system in the entire world, and to kick the can on trillion dollar environmental and infrastructure problems down the road, but we can't afford what Sanders proposes? We can't afford a guaranteed health care system or free college education but ... Malta can? It's simply nonsense. Of course we can afford these things: we just have to stop repeating the lie we can't. People right now--you know the "we" that "can't afford" these things--is somehow paying for them at inflated prices. How is it "affordable" to pay the private sector for these things and unaffordable to pay the government sector?
15
From the tone of yet another Bernie bashing article from the Times, following closely on the heels of the one by Sydney Ember, and the confrontational tone of the usual status quo a Republican Lite Hillary revenge seekers it’s pretty clear that the DNC will try to deliver Biden as their next factotum to carry out the wishes of Wall Street and AIPAC. The result of this will be more disastrous than Hillary, she at least had the female vote, and a platoon of Democratic operatives at her beck and call. Anyone who examines Biden’s Legislative Legacy, if you need a reminder Harpers had the full coverage recently, will be sorely disappointed, however that’s not what the DNC cares about, they just want someone to rubber stamp foreign policy and trade deals to benefit their deep pocketed masters. It’s safe to say with Bernie and real Democrats once again denied, we can expect four more years of Trump, if nothing else he might get our borders secured, an issue even clueless mainstream Dems are coming around to recognize as a real problem.
6
Do not nominate Bernie. This urban Democrat and many other baby boomers like me consider him a disaster. I like the Denmark model, and Bernie's economic policies are closer to Castro's than they are to Denmark.
7
Mr. Sanders is just one voice among the many that make up our government. He stands next to no chance of getting is agenda passed and impacted. Democrats would be better off nominating and electing a moderate that can actually get something accomplished.
1
The best candidate to bear Trump is the one who is nominated, period.
All this encouraging of hedging by the media elite moves not only voters, but candidates to an amorphous vague political space where they may win the nomination, but lack any policies that excite and bring energy to a campaign. Campaigns run off two kinds of fuel: money and energy. A lack of either is a reliable harbinger of failure.
2
Oh my goodness - talk about tedious, "pragmatic" hand-wringing. A perfect example of why we find ourselves where we do today.
Let me ask this question: Buttigeig, (whom I rather like so far) - holds up his military experience as a feather in his cap. Service to one's country is sure to bring in a range of votes, we would expect, right? Great optics, yeah?
So where is the concern over volunteering for service in a war with dubious moral underpinnings? Is it good enough to have simply felt that you needed to serve your country, or have we learned any lessons about incurious patriotism?
If our culture insists on defining itself by parameters beyond which we SHOULD have matured by now - we are toast.
3
@Clayton How many people who serve in our military have a say in how they serve or in the orders they are following? Serving isn’t the same as condoning.
1
Mr. Edsall's critical commentary on Sen. Sanders campaign for the presidency illustrates the panic of Wall Street supporters contemplating their loss of tax loopholes in a Sanders administration. I'm sure that former Rep. Gormley would have said the same if he had noticed the campaign of Rep. Ocasio-Cortez ahead of time.
Coming from a Swedish background on my father's side, I would love to see the US rise to the economic level of Scandinavian countries, such as the Swedish Wickstroms enjoy. Having read Edsall's article, I will increase the level of my regular contributions to the Sanders campaign, and turn out my precinct for Bernie in May 2020.
19
Who are these so-called "middle of the road" voters? People who aren't really sure if we need to confront corporate power and the billionaire class?
The Democratic Party project to appeal to some mystical centrist voting bloc is one of the reasons the party has run itself into the ground and paved the way for the (sort-of) election of an outright fascist, Donald Trump.
Democrats need to appeal to their own progressive base and to millions of independents attracted to progressive politics but turned off by the past generation of corporate Democrats. Even Republicans would be more likely to vote for Bernie than for any establishment Democrat (see 2016).
13
He scares rich people cause we're coming for their money.
8
@Anthony
If elected, expect him to get your money, too.
1
The first problem here is that "a Democratic operative with ties to the party establishment" thinks the plan is to "stick it to the elites" .
The plan is to make the DEM party Democratic again. It has been a slightly less racist clone of the GOP since 1992 which is why Bernie is Independent.
We don't want to "soak the wealthy" who are by no means elite in any way. We want the wealth the people generate to be spread more fairly in the ways it always had been before the GOP de-regulated and wrote new law and started using propaganda to justify it all and allow for the looting of that wealth giving us no benefit at all.
We are not a loose group of independent entities. We are a nation of people working together to self govern. Self government is how we make fair that which other forms of government make unfair. How taxation is done and revenue is spent is the usual way this is accomplished other than explicit law and regulation to quantify what fairness looks like in society.
The money generated in the country should FIRST pay for the physical and intellectual infrastructure of the nation, the schools systems, the government, Healthcare,and a savings plan for disaster and prudent reserves. Then and only then should profits be taken. The people will lift themselves up when they have a government and a society that is theirs. We do not need a lower class. That false idea exists to give the wealthy the exorbitant levels of money above and beyond what is fairly theirs.
11
@magicisnotreal I agree with your comment except it was Bill Clinton who oversaw the u turn on Dodd Frank allowing banks to gamble with our money and the decades of artificially low interest rates through successive administrations that have allowed one bubble and bust after the other, which under close inspection is probably the only reason we have an economy that continues to sputter along at all in the brave new world of FIAT money and Milton Friedmans voodoo economics.
So much fear mongering already! That Edsall interviews the same old pundits, hacks, and party operatives, excepting the academics, should immediately give us pause. These are the folks who brought us Hilary, and then, to their great surprise, Trump. Conventional wisdom has been turned on it's head for years now. We are in transformative times that call for a transformative leader. Rather than allowing conventional "wisdom" to calculate a "winning" candidate, let us see/hear/feel/taste the call for R-evolution, or else we likely face the ultimate loss: extinction. We don't have time for incrementalism. If not now, then when it's too late?
9
As a Master in Public Health and also as someone who lived without health insurance for a chunk of my adult life, it is Sander's unrealistic and misguided Medicare for all platform that scares me the most. It also scares me that he has copy cats in the Dem party now proposing the same thing. Having the right universal health care system in this country is crucial and having someone with what seems like no knowledge of the basics having so much traction is scary. Did I say scary enough times in this comment?
He is just scary.
4
Trump only needs to repeat million times that Bernie is a socialist and that may be enough to win. And he will repeat, his vocabulary is non-existent, and 'socialism' is this country has a connotation of 'devillism'. People are not going to spend time thinking and weighing arguments, they never do, and that will bring 4 new years of MAGA. Which may be just fine. For the majority of us, the left cultist excepted, Trump years are just fine, all things considered.
1
I think that Bernie has too much baggage, and I think that Biden is too old. I'd support either one of them if they won the nomination, but neither is a top choice for me. I do not want another old white man. We need new voices at the table, and we need someone who can unite the country. I don't think that person is Bernie or Biden.
I am still hopeful that a candidate rises up that we can embrace wholeheartedly as a uniter - and when I say "we" I don't just mean liberal democrats such as myself, I mean the nation. I'm sick of the nastiness of us vs. them politics, and I'm certain that with better leadership we can do better. Perhaps I'm a fool for thinking so, but I do think so, and that optimism keeps me going in a world where there is so much to be pessimistic about.
I still believe that there is a candidate who knows that climate change is real (and terrifying), who understands economics AND the need for healthcare, who embraces all people (and not just those of one ethnicity/religion/gender/sexuality, etc.), and who can capture the votes of Republicans who are disgusted with Trumpian politics, as well as the votes of people such as myself. That candidate would probably be more centrist than I am, and if they win office, I'll probably get frustrated with how slowly they adapt the policies I think we need, but that would still be a thousand times better for the nation than what we're experiencing now.
What happens if he's the nominee? He will be the next President of the United States. This is not that difficult.
4
Mr. Edsall writes, "One of Hillary Clinton’s weaknesses in 2016 was a failure to turn out young, Democratic-leaning voters."
Certainly that's partially true, but the whole truth includes the facts that both Russia and the Bannon/Cambridge Analytica people worked very hard on social media to suppress the votes of young voters, suburban women, and non-whites through their social media efforts. Clinton was sabotaged with largely false negativity on a literally industrial scale.
Approximately four million people who voted in 2012 did not vote at all in 2016. Among these were many voters under 30.
Were it not for the sabotage efforts, would they really thought their votes didn't make a difference?
I supported Sanders in the primary, but gladly voted for Clinton in the general. Sanders is not currently my top pick but If he wins the primary, I'll fight like hell to get him elected.
3
The Problem with "Democratic Socialism", "Welfare Capitalism" , "Nordic Model", or what ever label the Democrats attempt to stick on European style economic systems with generous welfare states, is that the Europeans pay for these with 50-70% income tax rates on everyone with 25% VAT/sales taxes on top of that.
2
@I want another option
And the top rate in the US used to be 90%. If you are not paying insurance companies or private schools but ARE getting universal high quality health care and education, not to mention clean air and water, programs to combat climate change, professional child care, and high paying jobs with generous vacations and benefits, you end up paying less for a LOT more. I think most Americans would take that deal.
5
I became a US citizen 18 months ago and 2020 will be the first time I vote in a presidential election. While I will vote for Bernie if he's the nominee, I do hope that he won't get the nomination; he had his chance in 2016, he's too extreme in his views (while the word "socialism" doesn't scare me as I grew up in Europe, it is a non-starter for most Americans) and can't we do better than choose a old white man (same goes for Biden) as the face of the democratic party.
4
Until I see otherwise, it is Donald J trump who is driving and winning the media message every single day.
Trump has labeled Sanders a 'socialist' who is evil and crazy and will make America into a Venezuela.
That is Sanders' moniker. It has been established by and for Trump. No one can claim otherwise. Even Bernie will not be able to go beyond this Trump label with his own words.
This will scare away the independents or swing voters in droves.
Trump has already dispatched Warren to the back of the line. It's not fair but true.
Until the Democratic Party and our candidates stop reacting TO Trump's messaging and take the upfront position and start 'branding' themselves and their vision, Trump will be by absentia directing the Democratic 2020 campaigns.
Democrats always respond. Stop it.
Of course it would help if the MSM did not let Trump run the show but to wait for that to change seems futile at this point.
2
He'll be running in primaries where there are all shades of blue and red, and purple, voters. They will decide his fate, not the "experts." It is, however, just as important to beat the stuck-in-the-mud wing of the Democratic Party, symbolized by Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton, as it is to beat Trump. We need a real alternative.
2
@annabellina Thanks! you are so right!
The fact that mainstream economists deplore Sanders is a point in his favor. (I back this opinion with twenty years of experience in editing for publication the illiterate droolings of academic economists from the US, Canada, the UK and Australia.)
3
Here we go again. Democrats sabotaged Bernie's run in 2016, thinking Hillary was a shoo-in to beat Trump. How did that work out? Don't let history repeat itself. Bernie could absolutely beat Trump one-on-one. Bernie does not back down, but I do think he will need to fight fire with fire even more than usual against Trump. Needs to come up with a nickname for Trump. Might I suggest "Bankrupt Don." He bankrupts companies, and he's bankrupt morally. (And Trump would absolutely hate that nickname.)
4
@Dave
Bernie lost fair and square. Voters preferred HIllary. Further, Russia helped Bernie, and even then he could not win. He will not win now, and we will have Trump again for 4 years.
7
@Norburt No, no he did not "lose fair and square." Did you really miss Donna Brazile sending debate questions to Hillary ahead of time? And that is just one of many examples of the sabotoge I was speaking of. Yes, Hillary won the popular vote. Guess what, Bernie would have won the popular vote, plus the Electoral College.
Great hit piece Mr. Edsall! A neo-liberal, establishment-loving Hill-Bot could not have written a better anti-Bernie Sanders piece.
Just remember that most of the pundits and political scientists you quote predicted that Hillary Clinton was going to win big in 2016.
It is still a long time until the 2020 election, I will add your column to meaningless buzz of white noise that will dominate political "discussion" until the next presidential election.
Come on Mr Edsall, don't be a nattering nabob of negativism! Being one only means that you are contributing to the re-election of so-called President Trump in 2020.
How about stretching that excellent mind of yours and writing a piece with the starting thesis with all the reasons why Bernie Sanders can win it all? You can start with the fact that head-to-head Bernie outpolls Trump.
PS Sanders-Warren would make the perfect Democratic ticket in 2020 and I say that as a person of color. What is important is ideas not a person's gender or identity.
If the Democrats fall into the identity politics trap in 2020 it will be a long four years watching Donald Trump and the GOP complete the destruction of our once-great country.
3
"Sanders and his supporters have argued that his early history is part of a no longer relevant past and that he intends to run on his platform, not on his personality or personal life"
Tell that to Al Franken. Sanders supporters must be the most hypocritical of all time.
6
"What happens if he’s the nominee in 2020?"
Trump gives his second inaugural. Trump has gotta be Bernie' biggest supporter.
9
How do you scare simple-minded Americans? Utter the word "Socialism." How do you vilify a decent, intelligent, experienced politician who speaks truth and sees clearly what is wrong with the nation and the world? And, offers sensible solutions to difficult problems? Call him "Socialist." With all the clamor against socialism and socialists by people who have had a part in giving us the free-market defender Donald Trump, socialism starts to sound like a very good thing to have and something that the nation really needs.
3
One would think that this is yet another attempt by one of our Republican writer friends to dissuade us from a front-runner. It just never ends. Time and time again I read words from those who are disheartened by Trump and his presidency. Yet, without fail, they split hairs to criticize Democratic candidates who are actually good, decent, smart, and experienced, who put country first before themselves. I do not care what Bernie Sanders is labeled to be. He and his counterparts aspiring to be president actually love their country of birth and ALL its people. Their focus is on us, not greed, bigotry, racism, or fanatical Christian beliefs attempting to marry the Church and State.
3
None of those Democratic pollsters, consultants, and experts of all stripes know zilch about how voters vote. It should be crystal clear by now that Democratic party has been losing elections by listening to these goofy characters. No more. I don't care what label you attach to Bernie, he is the best candidate to be the POTUS. No matter how much Edsall et al try to scare us, we all will vote for Sanders.
4
If Bernie is nominated we are all toast. Take away his policy proposals & arguments & what you have left is a man who shares many of Trump's characteristics: He is inflammatory, radical, deaf to a lot of criticism, old, and already I have read a good portion of his supporters are vowing to vote for Trump if he doesn't get the nomination. That should tell you everything about just how much they believe in democracy, if they're willing to toss it all away if they don't get what they want. Bernie should be denouncing this. He won't.
6
“What happens if he’s the nominee?” It’s pretty simple: people will, for the first time since the Great Depression, have a leader who represents US and begin to stomp out this merry-go-round of greed and corruption.
4
Articles like highlights why people are so tired of political elites and their way of thinking. So much emphasis is placed on the optics of someone’s past and how they’ll fit in with their personal ideas of how voters think based on their identity of class, gender, or race. Did these same people think Trump would have a chance?
Socialist is only a dirty word to some people and even then Sanders is not a hardcore socialist. Universal healthcare is not revolutionary or new. Tax rates on the wealthy were higher before and the world was not in chaos.
Stop acting like the only person who can win is someone who has a saintly history with a perfect pedigree willing to eat up corporate/hollywood donation dollars and wants to “reach across the aisle”. It was a loser strategy last time and will be so again.
I really have to beg the question again. Do these people who have such disdain for Sanders because of his past and for his “uncompromising approach” also think Trump has no chance?
3
Bernie Sanders would be a disaster for both the party & the country. He may hijack the Democratic party but the country will never elect him. Nothing I have seen or heard from him has come close to persuading me otherwise. In temperment I can't see much difference between him & Trump, quite frankly.
6
Economics is the dreary science, and that’s the best that can be said of it.
I always hear the opinions of centrists who are opposed to progressives as starting out with "I fear..." You know what? Stop being so scared. If fear is really the only thing you have motivating you maybe it is time to step aside for once.
2
Denmark may not have a minimum wage but it has an outstanding job retraining program for those displaced by 'globalization' and no history of allowing large numbers of unskilled undocumented foreign workers to enter.
1
Let's start with Trump: He is the absolute worst. Sanders: Not great, especially for those of us former Republicans who would like to vote for someone not as bad as Trump. Still, if the choice becomes Trump or Sanders, I would hold my nose and vote for Sanders. This is not the way to conduct an election. Why can't we have two good choices instead of two bad ones? Or how about even one good choice?
1
well, thanks for this hit piece on Sanders. No doubt Trump's supporters will cite it, and will hang all of this on whoever the Democratic nominee is if it isn't Sanders.
Whose side are you on?
3
No, he doesn't. But, it sounds like you wish he would.
He's expressing a lot of things Trump also expressed, from an extreme rightwing twisted point of view, I think.
There's nothing scary about healthcare, or education being affordable to everybody.
They benefit everybody.
There's nothing scary about noting the social inequality financial anxiety most people face.
If he's scaring a lot of people, then, it sounds like the writer is spending time with the 1%.
2
Bernie IS a Democrat, circa 1935. The other Democrats are Republicans, circa 1985.
6
@Jeff
No, he is NOT. He occasionally claims to be a Democrat in order to keep other Dems out of primaries and then switches to "independent" as soon as he has the nomination or wins the election. He worked hard to obstruct the Dem party in Vermont and has continue to do so on the national stage. He will flatly tell you he is not a Democrat, and the next day say that maybe he will be one for 10 minutes.
There are many kinds of Democrats, some, evidently like you who are far left. But none of them work to destroy the Dem party except Bernie.
2
@Norburt
They say one should never explain a joke, but my point was simply that it's a matter of perspective: from Sander's, the current Democrats are not "really" Democrats, just as from yours Sanders isn't really one. Fair enough. For Sander's, the "real" Democratic party was that of the New Deal (the Dems of the 30s), not the current DNC-driven centrist party (which resembles the GOP of the 80s). Of course, everybody is free to vie over who is "real" and who is "fake," and after a while it all gets silly; the meanings associated with the nomenclature have changed over time.
I've posted this in response to other op-ed pieces. NYT needs to start publishing summaries of the candidates policies. I'm tired of reading op-ed pieces about character traits and likeability. What are the specific policies that the various candidates are promoting that address health care, inequality, poverty, climate change, our broken infrastructure, crumbling education system, etc. I suggest readers look, for example, at VOX [https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/30/18183769/democrat-poverty-plans-2020-presidential-kamala-harris-booker-gillibrand] to get this information so that we can all make INFORMED decisions about which candidate to support.
Like many of the Dems here, I too think Bernie wd would a disaster as the Dem nominee. in 2016, Kurt Eichenwald did a piece discussing the GOP opposition research on Bernie - 2 feet high - and below is the link to that article.
ALSO, I was shocked the hear him extol voting rights for incarcerated people the other night, and pleased that Warren and Buttigieg smacked down that idea. I am hoping (and not so secretly anymore) that the ridiculousness of that idea will keep Bernie from getting the Dem nomination.
What the GOP has on Bernie: https://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
2
I wonder how many of these comments are generated by the Russian active measures campaign. This is 100% on topic for their election interference efforts. Undermine and amplify divisions.
Just last night, Tucker Carlson nailed Bernie on the senator's idea that felons serving time in prison ought to have the vote. Shades of Willie Horton! And we're more than a year away from any actual voting.
American presidential elections usually turn on goofy issues (Swiftboats, anyone?) that have nothing to do with high-level "policy"--most voters accurately sense that a candidate's grand plans are either lies or impossibilities.
So, assuming Sanders gets the nod (and splits the party, just as he did in helping Trump scoop up an electoral victory), the question comes down to: which scary guy gets your vote?
Or, to put it bluntly: the devil you know vs. the devil you don't.
Advantage: Trump.
4
It is remarkable that the stop Bernie people think Sanders campaign would be risky, while a Biden campaign is a sure thing. Biden is a notoriously bad campaigner with a fatal case of foot-in-mouth disease. You are worried about losing the suburban Republican vote (a thing that will happen anyway) but don’t care about stabbing the progressives in the back thus losing out on the most fired up part of your base - the part that will carry millions of new and non voters to the polls.
3
“‘Stop Sanders’ Democrats Are Agonizing ..."
Great news. You agonize; we'll vote. See which one comes true.
3
Funny how so much more media attention is given to the men running for president and so much less for the women.
3
I am no Sanders fan but literally no one cares that he had a son outside marriage. The current conservative hero president cheated on two different wives.
5
This was a pinball hysterical paranoia obfuscated by diabolical intent that masks the criminal syndicate Bernie is a significant threat towards. He's got you guys pegged more than the other way around. Just another underhanded attempt to discredit the only guy willing to take on what's destroyed the promise of America. Truly enlightening in the exact opposite way you intended.
2
Meanwhile, with the DNC no longer being (financially) beholden to the HRC machine, we might finally get the Democratic nominee the PEOPLE want.
2
If an older man who wants everyone to have a good job, healthcare and a functioning environment scares you, you should probably stay inside and draw the curtains because there are real things in the world to be afraid of.
5
C'mon people! Any person on the Democratic ticket would be a qualified president. ANY PERSON! Stop the infighting, get engaged and let's get Democrats elected!
1
Just winning the 2020 election is not going to be enough for the Democrats. They are are going to have to win decisively.
The country is currently stuck in a very deep mire.
And paranoia, vote rigging and Russian interference are going to be on tap in the 2020 election as never before.
The job therefore must go to the individual with the most experienced and trusted hand, which is to say Joe Biden, who will naturally consider all of the other present candidates for the job for high positions in his government and Republicans as well, if any half-decent ones ever appear on the scene.
uh, no. Biden's legislative record is practically Republican. He's neither a leader nor a visionary. He compromises for the sake of claiming "bipartisanship"-- what good is that when the policies he endorses are regressive? We need someone to seriously address the many problems facing this nation. Not more of the same failed ideas.
3
"What happens if he’s the nominee in 2020?"
Bernie is not my first choice. I do worry about electability. However, if "he's the nominee in 2020" I will vote for him. And I would respectfully suggest that if he is your first choice but is not the nominee, that you vote for whomever is nominated by the Democratic Party. Abstention or protest voting, as happened in 2016, simply amount to votes for the Republican nominee, who will probably be you-know-who. Don't waste your ballot: vote for the Democratic nominee.
3
The thing about Bernie is that even if he were to win I am still assuming Mitch McConnell is Senate Majority Leader.
Can you imagine how long McConnell's first strategy session would last? Maybe five minutes. He would presumably look around the room and tell everyone the goal: One term presidency. And do not take up votes or vote no on everything. Then he would tell everyone to get on the horn - conservative radio, Fox, and Sinclair - and bang on about the evils of socialism and the failure of Venezuela.
Then I imagine we continue the long tradition of the imperial Presidency where Sanders governs via executive order and Republicans suddenly regain their religion about rule of law and the constitution again and bang on about the evils of creeping socialism.
This sounds terrible but would be a marginal improvement over the current administration.
1
Edsall completely discredits himself by citing the Mercatus Center study, which showed that under our current system we would be spending trillions more.
Would you rather send $20K a year to an insurance company or to pay $15K in taxes?
3
Stop saying "soaking the rich". Say TAX the rich equitably. Your slant and/or agenda is exposed by this statement. I am not scared of Bernie and his policies. I am scared that Bernie and his policies will scare enough people to ensure a trump victory.
7
@jo
The rich already pay most of the federal taxes and you should be thanking them instead of being ungrateful.
Soaking the rich is what Bernie wants. He wants revenge as do most liberals.
1
Safety-net capitalism. That's an easier sell for the lay American voter for the type of politics Sanders and many (D) candidates espouse. It means dynamic, free markets combined with a strong safety-net and an effective government referee; it's what you see in Scandinavia, Canada, and other developed countries where they still have billionaires and millionaires.
There is not enough time before people vote in 2020 to teach them above democratic socialism vs. socialism etc.
4
@W Ammons, Thank you. I agree with this approach.
1
@W Ammons
Well said.
Or "progressive capitalism" as proposed by Mr. Stiglitz.
1
Denmark achieved the success not because redistribution of wealth, but by encouraging higher salaries? Ok, how did they do that? Oh, they have social security net that allowed people to refuse the jobs with miserable salaries. Of course, in the US such policies are called 'work discouragement' , but in Denmark it is called 'encouragement of higher salaries'. Must be that's why it worked there and could not work here. Of course, there is a question who will pay for these programs. Here it comes from taxes, I guess, in Denmark money are growing on the trees. That's why here such programs are considered to be wealth redistribution, and in Denmark they are not.
1
The establishment Democratic strategists were so successful in 2016 that they certainly should be the last word on the best political path forward. Not only did Republicans win the White House, they maintained control of both houses of Congress.
6
Bernie or Warren or maybe a Green candidate if the Dems put up a centrist neoliberal is where my vote will go as of present circumstances.
4
What happens if he’s the nominee in a fairly contested primary? He wins. I just wish he would change his position from allowing prisoners to vote, to allowing them to vote once released. He needs to keep his old positions and tread lightly on new ones. I switched parties in 2016 to vote for him. He needs to be careful about alienating the people he has brought along. Unless he is afraid of winning and is being intentionally controversial.
2
Michael Moore was one of the few people who correctly predicted Trump's win. The reason: Trump's supporters were more enthusiastic, more committed. Bernie Sander's supporters are committed. And traditional Democrats will vote for Sanders against Trump. Like it or not. People who say Sanders can not win are actually afraid he might.
12
The Democratic Party needs to wake up fast and take action even faster. Bernie is too old, too far left, too divisive and will be incapable of beating Trump. We've got to save our country NOW and can't waste time endorsing the politicians of yesteryear. To my fellow Democrats and leaders of our party . . . please focus all funds and campaign efforts on the candidates who can unite us through centrist themes and beat Trump.
7
I am voting for Bernie Sanders along with all the other people that believe in America and love Democracy more than corporate control.
12
No one approaching age 80 should run for president. The vast majority of people that cruise into their 80s in good health do not reach 90. Why bet on the very small chance that Bernie is a super-ager? Sorry to be ageist, but it's true.
8
Bernie’s ideas are younger and more dynamic than anyone else’s. And he has proven his stamina. He has not stopped fighting for the people. Take a look at the agreement that Amazon will pay $15 minimum wage to its employees. That is Bernie’s doing!
4
@Philly Girl
Bernie ideas are neither younger nor more dynamic. Sanders has literally been giving the exact same "millionaires and billionaires" speech since he twice ran and lost for Vermont Governor in the 1970s.
If you want voter and more dynamic, vote for Warren... or anyone else in the Democratic field.
1
I will vote for Sanders if he is the nominee, but I don't think he compares favorably to Elizabeth Warren, who has the most developed policy agenda. I also worry that his focus on free health care and free college, even if his heart is in the right place, are poorly examined proposals with real drawbacks he hasn't considered, for example, the urgent need for more doctors in several areas of the country. On the environment, I see nothing especially encouraging. His age and his stridency are also against him.
5
So, when programs are called 'progressive capitalism' they work just fine, but at moment you call the same exact programs as 'social programs' they suddenly stop working? What a funny science.
3
With both Sanders and Trump hailing from NYC originally, will the NYC attitude play in Peoria? Maybe in the primaries for Sanders, but the general election? The Democrats have a heck of a challenge in front of them. Behind the mask of unity for wanting to oust Trump, there simmers as much tension underneath between those who would take the party radically to the left and those who feel they should win the office first, steer left later.
Like it or not we've been living under essentially a right-leaning government since 1981 and Reagan, with some attempts at more liberal/centrist under Clinton and Obama. But the right has pushed back hard against those efforts. Bernie Sanders may be the right candidate, but he's at the wrong time. "Socialist" and "Revolution" will give the Republicans and Trump more than enough to stoke the fear engine into high gear. Go too far left and we may see Trump win again, this time not by a squeak, but a landslide. The Democrats need to temper their passion with pragmatism.
3
Last I checked, $32 trillion is < $34 trillion, which is the current cost of healthcare. Not to mention, actual cost savings may be be even greater, as this figure is from a study done by the Koch-backed Mercatus Center. (Not even *they* could manage to hide it.)
Stop with the op-Eds peppered with specious arguments.
7
You fudged the numbers, then threw some “may be even greater!” On there.
It’s the sirt of thing that leave me sure I ain’t voting for Bernie in the primary.
The problem with "a group of Democratic and liberal-leaning consultants, pollsters, economists and political scientists" is that they are paid by the billionaire donors to convince Democrats that comprising with bad Republican policy is the way to victory.
Compromising with Republicans hasn't worked. Since the "centrist" "experts" took over the Democratic Party, Republicans have controlled the House most of the time, the Senate most of the time, and the Presidency a majority of the time. Republicans also control 2/3 of governorships and 2/3 of state legislatures.
The theory that compromising with Supply Side Economics is good for the economy or gets Democrats elected is completely and thoroughly refuted by history.
And the refusal by "centrist" Democrats to actually oppose the Republican Party has thrown the entire political system out of whack, letting Republicans go so far to the right, that they are now the Party of Trump, actively destroying our government from the inside.
I don't think all felons should have the vote, but otherwise I agree with Bernie because investing in humans is how you make our country great, and both Republicans and Democratic "centrists" keep telling us that "compromise" is doing the opposite of what most Americans want.
The corporate establishment "center" is hated by most Americans and that is why all of its candidates lost in 2016.
The real middle actually wants healthcare, education, and infrastructure provided by taxes.
9
I voted for Sanders in the 2016 primary. I'd have voted for him in the general election if he won the primary. If he wins this primary, I'll support him.
Sanders does have real strengths, but other sources far less critical of him than the Times and the diverse structure of the Democratic Party show weakness.
In very liberal districts anti-establishment leftist candidates replaced very liberal establishment candidates in 2018. Most dynamic ideas and energy in the Democratic Party come from the left. However, swing districts are the reason Democrats retook the House in 2018. Speak with Democrats in swing districts and there's a higher level of antipathy to Sanders as a Socialist. A disconnect is a hostility to Socialism, not to many of his ideas.
I recently spoke with Democrats in swing districts in several Midwest states and it was troubling how many whites and blacks were not enthusiastic about Sanders because they hate the world Socialism.
It is confirmed by FiveThirtyEight aggregated polls showing Sanders is very popular with a large constituency of Democrats, but is a very polarizing among other Democrats. Only anti-abortion anti same-sex marriage Rep. Tulsi Gabbard is more polarizing.
Democrats were polled on who they would not consider supporting in the 2020 presidential primary. Nearly 60 chose Gabbard. Sanders was a close second at 50 percent. Harris ranked best, closely followed by Booker. Under 5 percent of Democrats said they would not support them.
8
Another Times hit piece on Sanders. I’ll make a few points. When mentioning Biden, who has enormous amount of baggage (does the name Anita Hill ring a bell?) and who has proven himself, in his last two attempts at the presidency, a terrible candidate, Edsall uses neutral language. When discussing Sanders, he speaks of him as a candidate with “liabilities.” Then he goes on to quote the brilliant mainstream Democrats who thought a toxic candidate like Clinton, with enormous baggage, was the best choice for the Democratic nomination in 2016. That worked out well, didn’t it? There are a few pro-Sanders statements buried deep into the piece, but it still mostly ignores consistent polling that shows Sanders beating Trump, Sanders crossover appeal to independents, and the enormous enthusiasm for his candidacy among young voters. A Sanders candidacy has the potential to significantly expand the Democratic Party. But, increasingly, I feel that the wealthy, the consultant class, and the Democratic establishment would rather lose to Trump again than see Sanders win the White House. He threatens the awful status quo. That is why this “paper of record” opposes him. And that’s why I support him. But you will probably win your war against Sanders and the fundamental reform we so desperately need. I tremble for our future.
13
This article is "hilarious" and only solidifies my conviction that our country needs someone like Bernie in order to breath fresh, transparent air again. As a psychiatrists, I have to say I love Bernie's early writings! Didn't know he did so! Thanks for sharing them, Thomas Edsall.
12
I was extending the benefit of the doubt until you started to criticize his policies. When you mention the study performed by the libertarian think tank owned by oil industrialists suggesting that Medicare for all would add an additional $32 trillion in public spending, you neglected to mention that it would also result in a reduction of $34 trillion in private spending. Since both of these forms of spending comes from the pockets of the public, they would obviously save money. You take money from premium spending, put it in public spending, and let the public keep the rest. In fact, a more detailed and less naturally biased study put the savings at $5.1 trillion.
If you were prepared to slaughter facts so carelessly, then I realized that you cannot be considered as anything but a biased hack, otherwise known as someone protecting the political power of those who are wrong in the party.
The polling shows that Bernie crushes Trump in a general election among likely voters. That ignores his vast support from unlikely voters. Please stop attending the 'stop Bernie' meetings.
14
I hate to say it but we all need to let the chips fall where they may. This has to play out without the DNC trying to control it. And whoever wins, we all need to support them with gusto.
6
The reality of life is that most, if not all politicans carry a lot of baggage. Or, should I say, most, if not all human beings carry a lot of baggage. It's called life. The older you are, the more baggage.
Sanders has some good ideas. He makes a fine US Senator from Vermont. IMHO, it's too late for him to be President, but not too late for all candidates to learn from him.
Let the other candidates debate and one will emerge who can lead our country out of this Russian Trump model of an Oligarchy back to a Democracy.
3
This column represents everything that is wrong with political reporting in this country. If pollsters and columnists could speak intelligently about policy rather than labels, our electorate would be much better served.
13
You can tell a lot about politicians by their interests outside of money and power For most every R, they don't seem to have any interests. Not sure what Sanders, Warren, Harris, Klobuchar, etc. are interested in either. I don't want a sit-down to lunch test. But I do want to know what inspires people. People with broader interests tend to worker better with others. I'd love to ask every politician - what's the last museum they went to, who are their favorite authors, what countries outside of the US would like to vacation in...
I worked for Bernie's campaign and still don't understand why Bernie is not using the term Nordic Model which describes what the much talked about Scandinavian Socialism is, and secondly, the term "commons" which is the unifying term that conveys metrics that maters.
The Nordic Model is the working in congress of three states so the speak: Ownership of the means of production (private, capitalist), Labour (Unions) and State. These three carry talks and agree what is right and benefits all states which results in economic fairness, high degree of education offered to all the citizens, and ultimately, the highest degree of happiness achieved for whole (Nordic) societies.
The other term "commons" is not being employed. Why? Commons means to the capitalists who loath the word "socialism" exactly what it means to socialists too! Infrastructure, clean water, libraries, parks, firefighters and social security etc etc... Could we Americans not add to that "health care for all" like in all other developed countries?
Why can't these "democratic socialists" learn to use words that convey meaning and not the murky ones that produce the opposite effect, with their confusing "ism". Just think of China; what is China, capitalist, communist? Utter confusion.
Right words matter: use right words!
I repeatedly commented to this effect and somehow I still do not see that the appropriate terms being used.
Please, use these two terms: Nordic Model and Commons!
6
Bernie Sanders should scare the Democrats unless they are committed to socialism. The others running are more so than he is and will turn him into a right-wing advocate during the debates. He is a professional politicization who has live out of taxpayers' wallets most of his adult life. He came to prominence in New Hampshire when he trounced Hillary. by 22%. Actually, Trump got more votes than she did. The N.H. Democratic primary exit polls Indicated that trust was the deciding factor. Between Trump’s and Sanders’ votes the, DNC should have seen trouble over the horizon for their chosen candidate. But in the End, after all the criticisms Sanders threw at Hillary such as saying she wasn't qualified, he caved. He didn't stand up for those who rejected the party's status quo and believed in him. But now he is just another socialist in a group of young fire brands. They will eat him alive in the debates. That will more than likely give Trump the edge.
2
I live within earshot of Vermont and because of my wife's citizenship we have met with Senator Sanders. Senator Sanders is not a socialist; his platform is what has turned the Ultra conservative high unemployment , poorly educated, poor social mobility, unhealthy, Quebec of my youth into an economic and sociological dynamo. We create more small business, we educate all our children and we are optimistic about the future and we really have the best economy in the world and a generation where we will be in constant need of new citizens.
I have given up on our Southern neighbours and do not see any scenario where our continued dependence on the US is of any benefit to Quebec and its citizens.
Interestingly enough I do see a light at the end of the tunnel. There is nothing like reading about the Ukrainian election, a country my ancestors fled more than a century ago and Scotland's determination to pursue its own path post Brexit to give me hope and optimism for Quebec's future.
We are at war with the Saudis and China, the Russians and the USA are not our friends.
We believe in government of the people, by the people and for the people and a few like myself remember that the Federalists who now control your judiciary were a backlash formed to keep democracy in shackles.
Bernie Sanders will not win, he represents the 60 years of democracy that America has forfeited in its war against the tides of change. We do not pray to be blessed we are responsible for our blessings.
2
Bernie can and may win the nomination. The question is can he beat Trump?
First, the Obama-Trump voters who are up for grabs backed Hillary in the 2008 Democratic primary. Don’t forget that, people who claim this primary process has not been favorable for women.
The voters that pushed Trump over the line backed Barack Obama. Don’t forget that, people who think Harris and Booker doing poorly is about identity politics, rather than their lack of a strong narrative.
You need to win those Obama-Trump voters. I think the jury is out whether Sanders can. Yes, he’ll be speaking to those people. The question is do they want to hear about redistribution or jobs? He talks of redistribution and Trump may yet be able to claim four years of economic growth.
Then you come to the suburban moderates who were supposed to win Hillary the election. They were with Hillary and some have led to Senate and House changing of the guards. But if Trump hasn’t ended the world or sunk the economy, how many will spurn Bernie’s revolution for moderate growth (especially stock market growth for those over 45)?
Then you have young voters and there Bernie should do well with the majority’s sacred cows. The question is how does Bernie manage the hits he’ll take from the radical identitarians.
I have Bernie doubts. He seems a latter stage American president. We can still lead.
1
"Sanders and his supporters have argued that his early history is part of a no longer relevant past and that he intends to run on his platform, not on his personality or personal life. "
Well, he might do that, but everyone else will run against his personality and/or personal life if they see advantage in that. Or did the last election not include anyone attacking aspects of Trump's/Clinton's personal lives or personalities? And since the article says Democrats plan to make it an anti-Trump election, how bulletproof will their candidate be? Their opponent is an expert at slinging dirt.
No Bernie, but thanks, from an independent who'd like to see the Democrats run an electable candidate. I don't see him as that. I could be wrong, but please remember that a lot of independents and disgusted Republicans might vote for a Democratic Party candidate if they didn't feel they were replacing one extreme with another.
5
Everyone seems to forget that Sanders was CRUSHED in the primaries in 2016, and not because the system was "rigged" but because he's not a Democrat.
The strength of the Democratic Party right now is women and minority voters, not old white men.
10
Sanders deserves respect for his consistent positions. Electability is definitely a concern, but so is whether any of his grand ideas can be enacted once elected. We’ve seen some countless presidential platforms get ground to dust beneath the political realities of Congress. If he is indeed “uncompromising” then it makes it yet more unlikely that the grander of these ideas would materialize.
Regarding his personal life, we have sitting president on his third wife and is well on his way to disintegrating his current marriage. Trump could hardly claim moral high-ground for this and a myriad of other reasons in a contest with Sanders.
2
I proudly voted for Mr. Sanders when he last ran for re-election to the Senate (I lived in Vermont for three years). I will do so again. The alternatives are what scare me the most.
7
This article is a quintessence of a hypocritical approach represented by many Democrats in our country. What they really want is just to maintain a status quo even if it significantly hurts our country in a long term. They do not see a complexity of the world with a dangerous China etc. only their own vision detached from the reality. They call themselves Democrats but they do not want to pay higher taxes for free education or free childcare. Maybe a strong economy would help with those. They want to bring immigrants here not worrying who would ensure their welfare, which propagates poverty and crime here. They really do not care about young people here who need jobs, or young mothers who would use a free childcare. They do not even care about those immigrants, who de facto become homeless in our border cities. They just want to live in their unrealistic paradise, behind a fence without pollution or high taxes blinded from the dangers of the world. If continued destined to vanish. The goal of this article is to help the Democrats to maintain their wishful status quo, which would lead our country to further decline. A critique of Sanders’s young years in this article is outraging and so unfair to him. Bernie Sanders had a chance to win in 2016, but the status quo guys removed him from the race. This article promotes a practice of personal destruction that is being exercised all the time on President Trump. By doing it the Democrats reduce their chances to win 2020.
10
The constantly repeated "Bernie is not a Democrat" makes no sense to anyone who's known the New Dealers of years past. FDR gave us most of the policies that define us as Democrats. Young people are smart enough to see that the identity crazed element now calling themselves Democrats are the ones who left the party. Truth is not delineated by time passage.
6
@Apple Jack
FDR would see through Old Bernie at first glance and wouldn't give him a second.
I was against Bernie Sanders because he did so little to support Clinton at the Democratic Convention when we needed him most. And, yes, I do blame him, in part, along his most rabid supporters for Trump (and the now the ever rightward make-up of the Supreme Court which will be a dark cloud over progressive legislation well into the future).
However, he then he did something that impressed me. He went on Fox News and spoke directly to their listeners. He refused to be a PC, Identity Politics crazed “snowflake” and spoke to listened to the opposition and he prevailed.
And while I may or may not vote for him in the primary, I will support and vote for him if he is the nominee.
7
@Annabelle I supported Clinton -- not Sanders. However, he gave her a rousing endorsement at the 2016 convention (not his supporters- HIM). That impressed me, as did his appearance on Fox.
Bviously, you did not attend one of the rallies, like I did, that Bernie gave across the country urging everybody to support Clinton and all democrat candidates. Your “facts” are plain wrong. You got them from hearsay. I was there. With recordings to prove it.
1
I think Edsall is missing a critical point in the 2020 dynamic here. Trump lost the popular vote and won the electoral college by about 100k votes. He has no margin to work with. Adding to this problem for Trump will be Sander's ability to peel off some segment of the populist vote who dislike Trump personally. Combining this group with the totality of Democratic voters spells trouble for Trump. I have not yet met someone who voted for Hillary who now regrets that vote and would rather vote for Trump. Put another way, Sanders will not lose any Hillary voters to Trump, regardless of his socialist tendencies, he will gain some Trump voters. Unless the Democrats nominate a criminal, Trump will not be able to get more than 45% of the votes in 2020, and that is not enough to win the election.
5
Absolutely! I personally met quite a number of people who ended up voting for Trump who initially voted Bernie in the primary. He reached many of those folks left out of the upward mobility.
2
I support Bernie because of his morals and his willingness to do the right thing no matter what. He doesn't take corporate money like all the other Dem front-runners do. He is beholden to the working class and always represents our best interests. He would be our president now if not for the corrupt DNC and Wasserman Schultz. Yet he never said one word against Hilary or the Dems and began campaigning for her immediately. He has class and integrity and can be relied upon to help us all be our best selves. We, as a nation, deserve this. I hope we are ready for it.
10
@michelle
Constantly calling the DNC "corrupt" does not make it true. Old Bernie is not a Democrat, duh, so to pretend the Democratic Party owed him anything is . . . dishonest. Why should they waste their resources on him?
And your claim that "he never said one word against Hilary (sic) . . . and began campaigning for her . . ." is also untrue.
1
The GOP is weaponizing the phrase "socialism" and "social" is getting hit as well. The 35-40% who voted for Trump will be spooked by the phrase socialism. It is not Marxism or a government takeover of the production processes. If Bernie has any shot at taking down Trump the Democrats need to clarify what contemporary socialist ideas really are- universal healthcare comes to mind.
2
Sanders did indeed struggle when he was young, which will make him far more appealing than Trump to young people who are still struggling.
7
The Democratic party of today is really the Republican party of the 60's. Somewhere, they lost their way in representing labor. B. Clinton turned the Democrats into Republican light. Now any attempt to return the party to its labor roots looks like a radical shift to the left. I'm in my 7th decade of life. It's time for the party to choose who you stand with. The corporatists or folks who do all the work. My time for seeing the path is running out.
4
I hope that some of the data analysis of the 2016 election and what is taking place now with fundraising statistics is viewed through the lens of the Muller Report's fact-based revelations of Russian interference via social media and hacking.
How successful would Bernie Sanders have been in 2016 without the aid of Russia, direct or indirect?
I don't think his appeal is as wide-spread as one might think; the more I learn of who he is now that the surface of his platitudes is being scratched, the less likely I'd be able to support him with a sense of optimism.
3
@Another2cents
Not as widespread? Why is that you and like-minded people like yourself continue to ignore the obvious? Why is it that when Sanders decided to run in the Presidential primary against the "annointed one", he started out being essentially a little known Senator from a small state in the Northeast to eventually being able to collect more than enough money from small donors(not super pacs)come from 60 points down to Hillary Clinton, win 22 states in that primary and secure over 13 million votes? Frankly, are you really that fearful of real change in America? It seems to be the case. Sanders did all this despite resistance from the corporate/establishment and their media cohorts.
Several progressives ran in the 2018 mid-terms many of whom one seats contributing to democrats convincingly taking back the house. This was no accident, it was about policies, not Trump. Bernie has collected millions of donations and is leading both in donations and in the polls for the nominee, so at what point does this register as to what Americans are thinking and what do they really want from their politicians who are supposed to serve them not their corporate donors?
All of this should speak for itself.
3
I thought it amazing that Bernie avoided getting pulled down into the muck in the last election. I think he would have crushed Trump. Like Obama, he focused on the policies and issues, and stayed out of the negatives. But hey... I guess it depends which feed you're watching. We aren't standing in front of these people, we're watching stories other people tell us about them. All a series of rhetorical paintings. In the end, this country is doomed by the amazing amount of wasted energy all this polarization requires.
1
Return with us now to the year 2016. These same "experts" were even more sure that Donald Trump could not get the republican nomination and could never be elected president. Yet we keep being told that they are "experts."
5
Sanders is not a good candidate because he says such outrageous things, most Americans are not radicals. His college student base of course thinks free stuff is great. Because they don't have to pay for it. Taxpayers are horrified at all the free stuff, the elimination of private health care, severely diluted Medicare for all, none of these tax guzzling ideas benefits the taxpayer. It all goes to lower income people. So as a Democrat I won't be voting for him. I will probably vote for Trump be default. None of the Dim candidates are worthwhile.
3
Actually, many taxpayers are horrified at the immense amount of money going to a military budget that keeps us in unending wars for the past 30 years, and we are outraged at the economic disparity in this country that goes hand in hand with the obscene corporate CEO payouts, and we are probably horrified most of all at the deep corruption in both parties due to being beholden to lobbyists. Bernie is fighting against ALL of f that.
2
I changed from backing Bernie over to Elizabeth Warren because of the recent CNN town hall event in New Hampshire.
I underestimated Senator Warren who wanted to become a "teacher" as she was growing up. She turned out to be quite an achiever because she became a professor of economics at Harvard University for twenty years. Along the way , she also managed to gain a net worth of $8,000,000.00 from a poor childhood.
Of all the candidates, Senator Warren presented us with her
idea of helping college students financially and providing all of us with affordable healthcare. Professor Warren is the only one of the lot who brings us her clear plan for accomplishing these goals.
Economics professor Elizabeth Warren laid out her plan by taxing those with over Fifty million dollars of net worth a fee of two percent of their wealth. When their wealth drops below 50 million, they are relieved of that fee.(Not too painful for the very rich) and quite a benefit for college students and a practical way to solve our health care problem.
Senator Warren came to the hall well prepared and the most interesting thing of all, None of the other four candidates challenged her math or said it couldn't be done.
Senator Warren came to the hall better prepared than the others. Bernie and the others came to talk but Elizabeth Warren brought the data along and none of the others could challenge her.
Because of this. Professor Warren has my vote unless she is proven wrong.
6
Bernie shouldn't scare anyone. His politics are quite in keeping with the historical socialist feeling in this country. The US has the longest history of union activity in the world. From the very first the capitalist class outlawed unions in 1805 and from that point forward people in this country have fought for better wages, conditions of work, the dispossessed, the immigrants and blacks and women. The socialism that served the dreams of these Americans are still alive and they very American dreams. If you are scared of Bernie's socialism then you are afraid of American history - a history from which his socialism springs.
4
I would love to see a personable, more moderate democratic candidate with a positive vision of where the country needs to go. A Bill Clinton type of candidate without the lack of self control.
I am dismayed at the current field. Bernie Sanders does not present an attractive direction for the country. Elizabeth Warren is one of the few people who could benefit from personality training by Hillary Clinton.
I fear a second term for the divisive, morally bereft, draft dodging current commander in chief. Still, given the lack of a good democratic candidate and a good economy I see another four years in my magic eight ball.
The irony of an economic boom set in motion by the Keynesian policies of the prior administration benefitting our reality star leadership may double down. The economy is certainly overstretched at this point. Living an unnatural long life on tax and interest rate stimulus. Should a Democrat be elected they may face and be blamed for the largest economic collapse in the history of the country.
Magic eight ball says try again later.
2
@John
Based on recent history, so-called moderate(Republican Lite) democrats will guarantee you another four years of Trump. Harry Truman always said, "if you want to vote for a Republican, you might as well vote for the real one".
1
That is rich. Personality training from Hillary?
What happens if Bernie runs, which he will, is that Trump gets re-elected. Bernie will not get the Democratic Party nomination since he is only a Democrat when he believes that he will be its nominee. So, he will again run on a third party to satisfy his overwhelming ego and sense of entitlement. The young left leaning voters will again be fooled by Bernie and their own belief that all politicians, other than Bernie, are corrupt. Bernie is all talk and no accomplishments. Bernie is the gift that keeps on giving to the Republicans.
6
Voter turnout will surge if Bernie is the candidate. He will win, not because the party i can turn out the vote, but because he has captured the zeitgeist of these troubled times.
11
@ Maureen
I agree with your first sentence; a Sanders candidacy could indeed bring out many voters. However, I have serious reservations that the outcome may not be what we desire. Around where I live not so many people use the word “zeitgeist” as in the bubbles. Quelle domage.
2
@Realist
What you say continues to ignore that poll after poll after poll indicates that Sanders would have defeated Trump handily in the 2016 election and he will do it today. To say otherwise ignores the ongoing reality that he leads the nominees in campaign donations(no super pacs or corporate)and he leads in the polls for the nominee.
Why is it that despite all the carnage that Trump and his "Trumpublicans" are inflicting on America that so many people are STILL fearful of real change that is required in America?
When one looks at corporate/establishment democrats and Republicans and their corporate benefactors who are systematically hijacking America's democracy, it is clear that to take the default(and failed) position of supporting so-called moderate, pragmatic, centrist candidates will all but guarantee another four years of Trump chaos.
1
Hillary Clinton "supported the team" backing Bush's invasion of Iraq, trusting that it wouldn't happen until the UN inspections turned up evidence that Iraq had violated the prohibitions of weapons it had agreed to after the Persian Gulf War.
So much for sportsmanship in US politics.
4
Already the Times is starting it’s anti Bernie drumbeat. During the 2016 election the Times missed few opportunities to say negative things about him, especially his electability. Perhaps you need to be reminded that the candidate you backed in 2016 lost the election. Bernie Sanders is a flawed candidate as are all. He remains a strong contender to a large part because his ideas resonate with a broad swath of people. Please don’t repeat what you did in 2016.
13
I fear that identity politics is not only driving the elections between the right and left, but within the Democratic Party itself. The 2016 was not so much won by Trump as lost by liberals when it became "if not Sanders, then either Trump or nobody", rather than "if not Sanders, then Clinton." I don't see that same fracture in the Republican party, as evidenced by Trump's unflagging support numbers.
My own affiliation has long followed a metric that tried to determine which candidate had the most reasonable, executable policies that I agreed with. Trump's election has me re-thinking this, and I now find myself with such a disdain --- honestly, it's little more than out and out hatred --- for Trump, that I will vote for ANYONE who has the ability to defeat him. Nothing any socialist says about how he/she would change our country scares me more than the thought of a Trump re-election.
To me, this is the Notre Dame on fire analogy. We can sit outside and argue about what things we should rush back in to save, or we can get busy trying to keep the whole thing from burning to the ground, even if we lose some precious possessions in the process.
2
Voters should be realistic about what a Sanders presidency would be like. With a Republican or divided Congress, the outcomes would be much like the Obama years; a partial rollback of the tax breaks for the wealthy, restoration of environmental protections, and progressive judicial appointments. With a Democratic Congress, you'd probably see a more dramatic restoration of a progressive tax system, a modification of the ACA that includes a public option, and our first serious plan to address climate change. Remember, a Republican Congress will be purely obstructionist and a Democratic Congress will still be essentially centrist. Whether Sanders is your preferred candidate or not, his election would be far less disruptive than you might hope or fear--Congress will still play the major role in setting domestic policy.
2
Excellent survey of opinions on Senator Sanders.
I formed a favorable impression of Senator Sanders capabilities during his primary debates with Mrs. Clinton that intellectually set him apart.
First was his response to a question on what was the nation's number 1 security threat. Without any equivocation. His response: climate change.
Second, he was asked what he would do about the social security. He immediately responded that he would propose eliminating the cap on the payroll tax.
Both of these instant responses showed political courage and leadership.
Finally, I am a few years older than him, still work but I do know that people worry a little too much that people in their 70s and 80's are intellectually challenged, so age could be a handicap even if unfounded.
I haven't yet decided. On purpose because I will reserve my support until I watch all of the candidates perform in the primary debates.
Of your various contributors to this column, I agree with Larry Sabato. However, deep down I feel that Mr. Trump will probably announce that he will not seek re-election as his support numbers continue to fall. This will somewhat deflate the Sabato thesis. So the big question is who will seek the G.O.P. nomination? Maybe Senator Romney.
3
@ James Jordan
The thing is, his numbers are not really falling. His supporters are a solid group and will goosestep into the polls en masse. To defeat Trump, they have to be outnumbered, and this can happen only by running a candidate whose appeal transcends ideological purity. Sanders, Warren, and the like, however inspiring their ideas may be, are offensive to too large a portion of the electorate.
2
@Realist
Actually, after the Mueller Report was revealed Trump's approval rating dropped from 43% to 36% with 57% disapproval. It should be made very clear that, contrary to your claim, the ideas that Warren and Sanders promote are very much mainstream in that poll after poll confirm the majority of Americans (both democrats and Republicans) support universal healthcare, minimum wage, getting money out of politics, stronger gun control, fairer taxation etc.
In fact, those that are NOT in favor of these policies are the minority, NOT the majority.
1
Why do we keep ignoring the fact that Vermont voted to enact a single-payer system in 2011, but had to abandon it in 2014 due to inability to determine funding. The then democratic governor of VT almost lost the election, in one of the most liberals states in the union, due to voter dissatisfaction.
If Sanders loses the nomination again, he will again 'continue the revolution' as he did with Clinton, and jeopardize the General Election. If Sanders wins the nomination and General Election, his Pollyanna proposals will set back democratic politics for decades due to failure.
The emperor has no clothes... Sanders is a fraud.
12
If Bernie is the Democratic nominee for President in 2020, I'll hold my nose and vote for him. And then I'll emigrate to Iceland.
4
@David Goldin at least you’d have free healthcare.
Mr. Edsall writes: "Democrats are banking on making the 2020 election a referendum on Trump." Didn't Hillary try that in 2016? The prevailing theme is it's okay for a Dem to be wacky, or even to alienate folks, as long as we can bask in the repeated mantra that Trump is unfit.
Radical thought: A centrist Democrat who has concrete economic proposals that won't bankrupt us or our children, and that would drain some of our bloated military budget to promote jobs, and fix our decaying infrastructure and health care system.
6
@rich
A centrist democrat(Republican Lite) is what put Trump in the WH.
This is a frustrating Opinion if you are looking for clear explanations of what is fuzzy, naive or misleading about Sander's agenda for changes in our economic policies. Near the end of a very long and unconvincing Opinion, columnist, Edsall, quotes three noted economists on Sander's positions. Unfortunately,there is not enough substance to those quotes from which to draw any conclusions or to have any more clarity. What's more, this Opinion does not link readers to studies, books or articles that would provide us with ways to evaluate Bernie's positions. I am one of those wary Democrats who suspect there is not enough 'know-how' behind the Utopian sounding declarations of Bernie Sanders. While I absolutely believe that there must be substantial changes in our economy to level the playing field, to generate many more decent paying jobs, strengthen public education, rebuild communities, etc., I am not convinced that Bernie Sander's has the right stuff. I wish Elizabeth Warren could have more appeal to voters. Her proposals are detailed and solid. She, Kamela Harris, and Pete Buttigieg are the three democratic candidates that I am paying the most attention to right now.
3
Independent voter here from the Atlanta suburbs. This article is spot on - I will not vote for Bernie Sanders, nor will most people who live in the suburbs. Young millennials may favor him, but they are concentrated in cities which are already Democratic bastions, so their vote really doesn't make a difference when it comes to the presidential election. The Democrats need to win the suburbs if they want to win the election, and Bernie is not going to cut it.
Bernie's policies leave me scratching my head. He wants to give felons in prison the right to vote - so you could have committed a triple homicide and be on death row, but Bernie wants you to be able to vote and influence my life. Sanders has also proposed free college tuition and free healthcare. How exactly will all this be paid for without increasing taxes on the middle class? Bernie supports the Green New Deal; although the intentions are good, the path to implementation will destroy the American economy.
I am socially liberal but fiscally conservative. Bernie does not pass muster with me, and if he is the Democratic candidate, I will either be voting for a 3rd party or not voting at all. Either way, Trump will effectively be getting my vote. I already held my nose once and voted for Hillary, but this is an even worse choice.
12
Trump’s victory in 2016 was a Democratic loss thanks to numerous, purely Democratic blunders. A one time thing? Not necessarily if Democrats repeat the mistake of choosing a candidate that turns off too many voters — who sit out the election. Bernie could be the next Hillary.
7
Democrats, of which I am, are proud of the big tent metaphor. But this tent becomes a contest of ideas vying for acceptance to formulate a voting platform for the masses. These ideas have to be "dumbed-down to banal simplicity" to be acceptable for the voting public. The media is complicit as an interpreter for us pandering to a particular biases. I am for treaties that permit trade parity but this is in the eye of the beholder at times.
Many points advocated by Sanders has relevance but these are formulations from Northern Europe. This area is much more homogeneous than we can ever be given the egocentric view predominant in the US. Senator Sander's has to appeal to the voting public specifically I.e. the "mob."
1
A lifelong Democrat who could not/would not vote for Bernie Sanders. He is not a Democrat & has no right to run as one; he is as angry as Trump although probably somewhat smarter; he is too old - I can say that as I'm 73. Bernie has all these ideas that we liberals like to hear but no way of paying for them or doing anything about the soaring debt other than to increase it.
Elizabeth Warren is of a similar ilk. She certainly has the common man's welfare at heart but she gets carried away with her ideas. I don't think either one is electable.
My preference is Amy Klobachur but Kamala Harris & Mayor Pete might be the ticket. I'd love to see Pete take on DJT in a debate but don't see him at the top of the ticket just yet.
4 more years of Trump would probably see us at war with Iran & North Korea, a cabiet with no secretaries, just actings; it looks like chaos now...just wait.
4
Bernie gave us Donald once......that's enough.
13
@John, the Russians did.
1
Hillary and the DNC’s deafness, gave us Donald Trump. Bernie would have beat Trump by a wide margin.
1
“What happens if he’s the nominee in 2020?”
He loses by a fairly substantial margin, and Trump is cemented in. In the short term, millions more die from lack of healthcare, and income inequality increases. In the intermediate term, wars around the world kill tens of millions of people. In the long term the chance to ameliorate climate change is lost, and the planet is ruined. All because some Democrats insisted upon ideological purity.
10
How about Democratic operatives and consultants hold their noses this time, so their fine olfactory senses don't get overwhelmed with the disheveled, frumpled candidate, and throw their support unequivocally behind a guy who will bring back those million and a half people that switched sides and went to vote for Trump in 2016? It is all about winning. Middle of the road in the US is too far right, it is so far on the shoulder that we are likely to hit mileposts.
2
The title of this article should really be “The New York Times and its closest allies are terrified of Bernie Sanders”.
12
Of course Bernie scares a lot of people. His proposed policies are nuts. Who wouldn't be scared? The latest is allowing convicted felons to vote including the Islamic terrorist who was responsible for the Boston Marathon massacre. If Bernie wins the nomination the most desirable choice will be Trump.
2
Yes, let’s listen to the same centrist losers that thought Hillary Clinton was a sure winner. A coattail-riding corporate tool, congenital liar - and a war criminal to boot !
But, hey, that socialist from Vermont wrote some raunchy stuff in college. Scary !
4
Ho-hum, NYTimes continues its elitist limousine-liberal assault against Bernie Sanders and the odious "populist" America he so articulately, energetically, and consistently represents.
And of course he's an old-fashioned FDR-LBJ Democrat in ways that the Clintons found anathema to their triangulated advance.
5
@vishmael
The particular irony of your post is that so many of your neighbors in Madison kneecapped LBJ in the interest of ideological purity, giving us Nixon, the Southern strategy, and the hateful mess that we have today. Get out of the bubble, forks. 2020 is our last chance.
1
We have a president who is an old, angry white man. Bernie Sanders is an old, angry white man. We don't need another old, angry white man in the White House. Bernie winning the democratic nomination would spell 2020 electoral doom for the Democrats. As a life long Democratic I see the the current field of 20 candidates as a clown bus equal to the Republican's
clown bus in 2016.
6
As an Independent voter who usually votes for Democrats, I can honestly say without a doubt I would never vote for Bernie. First, I would like someone electable which he is not. Second, he is too darn old. I am a senior myself and would like to see an age limit placed on anyone wanting to run for POTUS. Third, his temperament is so like the idiot currently occupying the WH! His normal tone is a screaming rant. Additionally, I feel Hillary was anointed for the job. I voted for her but loathed doing it. Don't want to walk that road again. Finally, it just scares the heart and soul out of this 75 year old to think we may put forth yet another UNELECTABLE candidate.
6
Big items on the agenda. Climate disaster in full throated swing.White people,(I include myself) will worry that they won't have enough. Everyone of us is fearful. FEAR IS NOT A PLAN(AOC). The scale here is enormous. The huge demonstrations show the stakes are high.
We cannot see the future. No one can tell by seeing the observed life of another what the hell was going on. I hope that the snowflakes can look at their lives and stop judging themselves let alone others. We will need air, food, and water to reflect, remember, engage with compassion these events as they show up at your FRONT DOOR. Courage is a plan!!!!!!!!!!!
Therefore, VOTE and press for the paper ballot verification we need for accurate results. If corporations don't budge we get bucks anyway so come on in. The water's fine.
Everything in American society that is made for the public good is socialism. The rest is capitalism -- on crack. What I gather most from recent analyses on socialism is that far too many Americans are ignorant about what socialism actually is and what it does for them every day. As an example, we've all seen posters like "keep your socialist hands off my Medicare!" and laughed, but it is not funny. These are people who back Trump because they believe he and the Republicans are going to fix Medicare, where the real aim is to break it -- because socialism means wealthy people and corporate interests have to pay more in taxes.
Bernie has a message that made a lot of "stick it to the elite" people want to vote for him. "Middle of the road" gets everyday people nowhere. The narrative about socialism is the problem.
My Trump-voting friend (the only one I talk to anymore) really likes Bernie. It's about sticking it to corporate interests and big banks that screw people like her working class family. She wants Medicare for All. There is nothing "middle of the road" about Trump voters or Bernie voters. Bernie has a solid chance. Will Democrats do the right thing? Did they learn anything in 2016?
3
Bernie or the ideas is offers is a long game and one that we should be embracing. Even if he is not the candidate in 2020, his ideas should carry forward as a template for the country to follow. They may be fine tuned and watered down as all policy is - but it should not be ignored because you don't like or feel the messenger is not capable of winning. That is what a Bernie support believes and sees for the future.
Always a good idea to remember that those who have qualms about Sanders' electability were confident in Clinton's electability.
5
Bernie speaks with conviction and clarity few can rival. He is the only one talking about real structural solutions and has the ability to convert Trump voters. Just watch him at the recent Fox News Town Hall and you'll see.
Bernie was instrumental in moving the needle on progressive ideas from being far left and "socialist" two years back to pretty much Dem candidate platform. Imagine how much more can be accomplished as millions more hear Bernie through the primary debate process.
3
Bernie can definitely win. What we can't afford to do is nominate another corporate centrist who'll lose to Trump just like last time.
If you look at the primary results and the current polling in the most important swing States (MI, WI, PA), Bernie does far better than his opponents. He has more grassroots support and better fundraising income, even though he only takes small dollar donations.
Bernie is definitely the frontrunner, the best candidate to beat trump, and outlets like the NY Times and especially the Washington Post just love to put out hit pieces on Bernie. The WaPo had 4 hit pieces within days of his announcement. Probably has something to do with the fact that it's owned by the richest man on Earth.
5
“The qualities of a great man are vision, integrity, courage, understanding, the power of articulation, and profundity of character.” — Dwight Eisenhower
Senator Sanders possesses all of these admirable qualities. And that’s why I am wholeheartedly supporting his 2020 presidential campaign.
Bernie for beneficent America!
7
If Bernie is the nominee against Trump, he’s got my vote. The only thing I want in a candidate against Trump is a pulse!
7
Here we go again--sounds like 2016 all over again. And we know what happened then.
6
I think it is time for most of the democratic candidates to start using the word "We" instead of "I". As part of a team Bernie can be an important contributer shining the light on numerous injustices in the country, but if he insists on the phrase "I am going to fix those injustices with my ill-thought out plans that do not fit into our existing system and attack the wrong targets" we almost certainly will have Trump for another 4 years. We need more than just Bernie's band of would be hippies to take the country back, we need the votes from those fence walkers in Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin and Kansas. Yes, he stands a good chance of winning the nomination as the oddball candidate in a sea of look alike normal democrats. He also is about the only democratic candidate who will galvanize the fence walkers against voting democratic. He and Warren, with her give away plan. There is nothing a true republican hates more than giving something away for nothing, even if it hurts their own pocketbook. Please candidates - if you believe in the party of social equality make sure that the candidate in the election can win the election.
2
Thanks for the compliment of “would be Hippie.” This 65 year old staunch Bernie supporter lives that. I try to tread lightly on the earth, grow much of my own food, use solar, etc. I was a tad too young to be a Hippie, but I think caring for the earth as best we can is a darn sight better than what our government is doing now.
Bernie has my vote- for SO many reasons.
3
Bernie Sanders is NOT a DEMOCRAT. Part of me wishes he would just go away. Along with Hillary he had his shot, game over and go home.
Let the "younger" generation have a shot at the presidency.
He's never withstood a true national election and he's thin skinned. He's petulant and a cry baby and everything we don't need in a president.
While I don't believe we should run someone on the basis of "electability" (whatever that is) Bernie's got skeletons that can be exploited. The Republicans will eviscerate Bernie Sanders. He will be hit like never before and we honestly don't know how he'll respond, but his track record is not good.
And he's NOT A DEMOCRAT!
He's old, he yells, he insists he's right, and he's got no self awareness. When he failed to drop out of the primary in 2016 and continued to attack Hillary, he did her, and the Democrats, a terrible disservice. He wasn't punished for it so now he's back and emboldened.
We need to shut Bernie Sanders down now, once and for all.
He's not a Democrat, he doesn't represent me.
Final note: if by some terrible chance he becomes the Democratic Nominee for President, I will vote for him.
In 2020 the Democrats cannot let Perfect or Great get in the way of Good. Whoever wins the primary, Dems must vote, en masse, for that person. If not brace yourself for 4 more years of what we have now. I won't even say his name.
14
Linda, if such faults prevent election, how did DJT become president?! Ever error noted our current POTUS displayed in spades.
2
Actually Bernie is a social democrat so he is a democrat who believes in worker protection and human rights. In Europe he’d be considered a moderate democrat! We cannot support corporate-backed centrists who are selling us out; those days are over. He represents millions of us for very good reasons that are based not in a cult of personality but on his policies. Having seen him speak I can attest that he is a spry and energetic force that makes a younger person look lazy and out of shape! Maybe you should learn more about his policies before you categorize and toss your ageist thinking on the ash heap?
1
Bernie is a true democrat. A new deal Democrat. An FDR Democrat, the man who saved capitalism from its own excesses. He is more a true Democrat than you.
2
Trump won in 2016 by posing as a populist, which he wasn't. By now, some of his supporters should be aware that he duped them. Bernie Sanders is a true populist. I don't understand these constant articles in the Times saying Sanders is not electable. That's like all the pundits in 2016 saying Trump was not electable. Turned out he was electable, didn't it?
3
@ Barry Chussin
Seeing that Trump’s supporters should be aware of how he duped them is indulging a fantasy. They love him, and they don’t care about what he is. He keeps the rich up, the poor down, the blacks in jail, and the brown people out. This meets their needs, and none of them will change their minds. Get out of the bubble, folks.
1
Not so afraid! I love Bernie and would vote for him again, but his time has passed and he has done his job and given his gifts to the Democratic Party. He cracked the big Machine of it that Hillary seemed to wheeled. He has broken the spell that any kind of social justice or social cause is the same thing as Stalinist or Maoist State control and an end to Life Liberty and Happiness. The Party is younger, more colorful and energetic. As the younger people look to the future they want to see a place to live with clean air and water, to find and make good work. and of course to throw of the Oligarchy, claw back our money and try to find our true birth right to a More Perfect Union.
1
Last night I tuned into a nationally syndicated conservative radio show. A spokesman speaking in defense of "our capitalistic" system said that wealthy people with private planes should be viewed as harbingers of the future, when everybody will own a private plane.
This is how incredibly condescending & arrogant these messengers of the new Gilded Age approach the electorate. They think we are all stupid & moved by buzz words to oppose rational reformation of an economic system gone insane with inequity.
Bernie speaks the truth.
7
@Apple Jack
Actually, neither Bernie nor the out of touch plutocrats speak the truth.
"A system need be as simple as possible, but no simpler". Understanding this basic axiom would do the country some good now.
1
@Apple Jack
Yes, people buy that nonsense. Thing is--what they say could actually be true, but it requires a rising tide that raises all boats, not just the yachts.
Bernie seeks a course correction.
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The more the Democrats resist Bernie, the more I am likely to vote for him. After all, we all witnessed how their support for Hillary worked out.
Sheesh! What a joke of a party. Have they learned anything from 2016?
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No kidding-I am totally disgusted by the Dems and if they cheat again like the last primary then I am out.
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Am I the only one who thinks it arrogant and absurd that he refuses become a member of the Democratic Party, whose candidate he wishes to become?
Oh--if we give him our party's nomination, the maybe he will join.
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Maybe you are thinking about it backwards. Why does the Democratic Party want him under their umbrella? The answer is because he is a democrat. That he has the benefit of being independent and able to speak to a very important and quickly growing base of actual democrats who know that corporate-backed centrism is a benefit not a problem. Time for the Democrats to return to being a party that serves the people.
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People who point out Bernie's flaws as a presidential candidate are "smearing" him? They want Trump to be re-elected? A lot of Kool-Aid being drunk here.
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Enough with these "Dems in Disarray" articles and op eds. We have a wealth of talent in the democratic field this time. Let's let the process play out
Mr. Edsall travels 45 years back in time to dig up dirt. Included is quotes from Daily Mail(?!) on "very 1960's love life", and having procreated "outside of marriage".
Is embedded links to tabloids like this acceptable for NYT opinion section articles?
Mr. Edsall justifies this muck by saying these 'issues' concern "socially moderate and more conservative voters on whom much is riding in this election".
In other words, the election does not ride on the concerns of liberal, or progressives voters, only conservative voters matter.
Grateful conservatives will return the favor, (if we ask them nicely), and nominate moderate Repiblican in their primary, because they are known for being reasonable, and accommodating to liberal causes.
Another scary quote:
"He was living in the back of an old brick building, and when he couldn’t pay the electric bill, he would take extension cords and run down to the basement and plug them into the landlord’s outlet"
Oh! the humanity! Should Pelosi start investigations?
Headline: Centrist Democrats are scared!
This is not news. They are scared of impeachment, scared of progressives, scared of Trump, scared of Republicans in the Senate, and in general, scared of doing anything.
Maybe we need representatives who are not scared,frightened, or fearful.
What scares this Democrat the most is a repeat of 2016.
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Very simple: he loses in a landslide, and Trump completes the trashing of our country.
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MARCH 8, 2016
"Washington Post Ran 16 Negative Stories on Bernie Sanders in 16 Hours"
https://fair.org/home/washington-post-ran-16-negative-stories-on-bernie-sanders-in-16-hours/
Looks like the NYTimes is eager to replace the Washington Post as the #1 anti-Sanders media outlet.
I suspect the WaPo won't give up the title easily.
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The Wall St. fat cats who have ruled the Democrats since 1992, not least with Obama who gave them bonuses not jail, are mainly terrified that Sanders might win the White House. They could care less if he wins the nomination and loses, just as it was fine for them when Hillary did the same things last time. When Hillary lost, Trump made a former head of Goldman his chief economic advisor, exactly as Bill Clinton had made a former CEO of Goldman his Secretary of the Treasury. As Wallace correctly said in 1968, as long as Wall St. rules both parties, "there's not a dime's worth of difference" between the Dems and Republicans. That's how Wall St. likes it. Sanders threatens the real "revolution" Trump fraudulently pretended to be launching. And don't forget that the Rust Belt exit polls in 2016 proved incontrovertibly that a solid majority of white workers would have preferred to vote for Bernie over Trump, if Bernie had been on the ballot, thus giving Bernie a sweep of that region, and thus a national victory going away. Wall St. successfully blocked Bernie with Hillary last time. Too bad their strategy of using black voters to do that (Bernie won the white primary vote, of course) will be torpedoed this time by Biden, Wall St.'s stalking-horse this time's, having to share the black vote with both Booker and Harris. What a shock that Bernie is by far the best campaigner in the Dem field, the only one who inspires genuine passion equal to anything Trump can! Be afraid, bankers.
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Bernie Sanders is unacceptable for the same basic reasons Trump is - they are two sides of a populist coin. Trump appeal to the uneducated and Sanders appeals to the poorly educated. The fact that one is a conman and the other is an ideologue is relevant for how I may personally feel about each, but it matter little when it comes to policies.
Furthermore, having emigrated from the Soviet Union, I can not support a man who praised and justified the system of oppression and lies. I can not vote for the man who befriended Fidel and spoke up for Sandanistas and Chavez. He may have had good intentions, but his naivete played into the hands of tyrants who oppressed millions. he was the that "useful idiot" on which Soviets counted on in the west.
The fact that he is revered by many millennials tells us more about the failure of our higher education, than about Sanders. Democrats have already failed once by advancing the only candidate who could lose to Trump. Do not repeat this mistake.
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It's entirely premature for a piece like this. The field is crowded and the true nominee will become clear in a while. It might be Bernie. It might be someone who hasn't even declared yet. Let's let the pot simmer for a while before freaking out, and yes, New York Times, running an entirely unfair smear piece on a good man.
What's alarming is the US has become so extreme on both sides that there's a chance our 2020 election could be between a corporate fascist with no regard for anything but his own interests and a very left leaning democratic socialist of some kind or another. Sigh!
Well you know that the Russian trolls will come out in droves to support Bernie Sanders.
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Bernie would have appealed to the 20 year old me, in 1969. At 70, I find a lot of his rhetoric and sloganeering to be stale. The idea of incarcerated felons retaining the right to vote frankly unappealing to a broad swath of Americans.
Alas, there is also the age factor. Yes, I'm old, too. But I recognize that I don't have the stamina, resolve, passion and freshness of someone decades younger. It is what it is.
If Bernie is the Democratic nominee, it's another 4 years of Trump.
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The Dems start in a position of wasting the countries time, treasure and sanity on the Russian interference story. The Russians haven't demoralized the American voter. The people who perversely thought they could save the country from Trump through obviously dishonest means did. Sanders was not drawn into that non sense. His keeping his donor base at the grass roots level could be useful especially with the growing disquiet in the country concerning the growing disparity of distribution of wealth that absolutely threatens the middle class. Global warming is another area in which economic benefits can be derived from the new technologies developed to reduce green house gases. Health care is a major issue that is in dire need of attention but which Trump is obviously uninformed and has zero sympathy for people. Trump could well lose the popular vote again in 2020. OH, WI, MI, and PA have an interest in all these issues.
Good article. The word "Socialism" isn't a problem for me. But the actionable meaning in our country might be. That's why we hold elections. We are in a state of excessive capitalism or what a previous author better described as " shareholder interests only." However, a further centralization of government should be carefully considered by all of us. Where is the balance between monetary anarchy and loss of individual liberty?
My personal preference is to be able to vote for a center-left candidate regardless of party label. The far left however is a definite no go. I'd like to see a true three party system of choice for many reasons in our country.
Sorry to see Edsall lending himself to the 'Bernie is too radical' effort to derail his candidacy, being driven by the CAP. His proposals only seem radical to those wedded to the corporatist approach of the center right Clinton Dems. 50 years ago his positions would have made him a New Deal/Great Society Dem. He only looks like far left because the party moved so far to the right to fill the zone abandoned by now extinct moderate Repubs. These Conservative Dems apparently view another for years of Trump as more acceptable than having Bernie as their candidate. How else to explain their efforts to block Bernie despite his lead in the polls thus far? Edsall and the Times should not support this effort. Let the voters decide!
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@EB exactly correct, Bernie in reality IS centrist, because of how far every other faction has moved to the right!
Bernie won't get the nomination and his supporters will ruin things for whomever does.
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@Doug Hill, you can see the future, sir?
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In Mr. Edsalls world view, there is no chance for "Redeeming the Time," the title of Page Smith's final volume of his eight volume history of the United State, the volume about the 1920's and the New Deal. So we don't get a mention of the surge of interest in the Green New Deal, which Sanders' stances on ecology and economics most closely resemble, compared to his many Democratic rivals.
In Mr. Edsall's world view, there will be no more transformative American elections, as in 1860, almost in 1896, 1932/1936, 1964 and 1980...it is a conflicted, fragmented decline of the world's greatest democracy, the one which paved the way for its replacement, China, rolled out a red carpet for it thanks to the infatuation of Bill Clinton, and many others, with Neoliberalism and Globalization - with American corporations defining the terms of trade for themselves, not the long term good of the republic.
Indeed, if you are young, or young at heart, read Mr. Edsall and weep for your economic future, and the destruction of Nature as we have known it, and upon which we depend. It has no place in his very limited outlook.
He urges going with the same Democratic incrementalism that has failed to convince the public through 16 years of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, lost state house after state house because the party has no coherent philosophy.
How's this for a Democratic Philosophy:
strong government
servant markets
environ. restoration
greater equality
cooperative solidarity
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If Bernie Sanders is the nominee, then we all need to rally behind him. You may not agree with him, but he is vastly superior to Trump. It's that simple.
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@ Brett
The problem is, not enough people will rally around him, because they disagree too much. He is simply not electable. 2020 is our last chance.
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@Brett, and we don’t want any excuses from Jexit or Jexodus, either.
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Winning coalitions will include people who think very much like I do and people with whom I share only some objectives.
If we want to have a new President in 2021 we had better understand that a Democrat will need to cast a broad net. We don't have to like it; we have to accept the reality check.
Count me as someone who likes much of what Sanders has to say but is looking very much for a candidate with a winning message. That's not Bernie. So count me also as one of those who is a little scared.
I want to attract people who may not be as progressive as I am to vote Democratic. Why is this hard for so many folks to understand this? Do people want to risk four more years of right wing judicial nominees and GOP tax policy and tweets about border walls and an impulsive man-child as the leader of our nation?
Let's not gamble with the possibility.
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Bernie is the only Dem candidate with an actual sense of longstanding authenticity. Others seem like opportunists riding current progressives trends. A good Dem candidate must bring voters away from Trump, and appeal to all citizens. Transcend partisanship. People voted Trump because they felt he represented a change from the status quo. Bernie is also that, but in a good way. He needs to be given a chance. I don't hink any other curent Dem candidate can beat Trump.
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Living in Thatcherite Britain taught me that when the political centre is weak, the result is a lot of rightwing conservative governments. Sometimes, conservative voters will vote for centre-left candidates, but even relatively moderate conservatives tend to reject left-of-centre-left candidates. And remember, conservative voters vote like clockwork.
If Bernie Sanders wins the Democrat nomination, Republicans will rally around Trump. Does Mr. Sanders really want four more years of Trump ? Americans are about to find out.
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Sanders called for getting rid of the ACA and starting all over again. In this he resembled Trump from the other end of the political spectrum. If he fails to get the party's nomination, many of his supporters will not vote and he will contribute, as he did in 2016, to the election of Trump.
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Whether or not Senator Sanders becomes the nominated candidate, we have much to thank him for. His ideas of college for all who qualify, medicare for all, protecting elections and voting rights are ideas whose time has come! These are simply the benefits that citizens in Western Europe have enjoyed for decades. We have been deprived of these Social Democrat benefits for far too long! Our tax dollars need to be spent on making American lives better and not on resource wars of choice in the Middle East.
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I’m with the political scientists on this one: there will be moderate places where he might lose, but more likely would win. There are a lot of conservative places where he has a greater chance than Hillary did, and he should be fine in liberal areas.
I’m not saying he’s the best candidate. Several look good. I’m saying: he could win.
If he won, the economists’ issues come in. Probably none of his ideas would have legs unless Dems flip the Senate. Even then, his agenda would likely become sausage unless he rode a wave of progressive congressional victories.
Obama’s ACA was ambitious. Congress was not progressive enough for the public option. The courts were not progressive enough to protect a right to Medicaid in red states. The media was not balanced enough to protect the ACA from conservative propaganda.
Climate change action passed the House but stalled in the Senate. This happened even though Obama had majorities in 2 branches of government. They were not progressive majorities; they depended on coal/insurer states’ support.
Considering that, I agree he would need a very competent cabinet to give his ideas their most powerful expression possible in his Congress. Ideally, they would get effectively gamed out before getting attractive CBO scores, so that core points could survive negotiations with critics.
Maybe his greatest strength here, is like Trump’s, his message is well known and easy to understand. Unlike Trump’s, his agenda could help most Americans.
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