Do these people have jobs? How is it that they are here? Who is supporting them? Do they have families? Who is supporting them while they are out there going after these unfortunates? It makes me so sad. . .
7
So much for respect of the law. Their “God-given rights” extend to trespassing and possession of firearms by a felon? I guess laws only apply to “illegals”. Oh wait, doesn’t that mean someone breaking the law?
9
God or no god is irrelevant. We have a huge problem with illegal immigration. I don't blame these guys for taking matters into their own hands. Our Government ignored the problem for 40 years. This is an issue that may trigger a civil war if it is not faced heads on and fast.
12
@JG
Why would conflict with outsiders become a civil war? You'd need two groups of US citizens fighting each other to be a civil war.
11
@JG, "This is an issue that may trigger a civil war if it is not faced heads on and fast."
Hyperbole rarely helps win arguments. Oh, and you do realize that undocumented immigration has decreased in recent years, not increased. Here's one source. There are many others out there to back this up.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/undocumented-immigrants-in-united-states-drop-lowest-in-12-years-2018-11-28/
19
BTW, since you are o.k. with "citizens" taking charge when government "ignores issues", guess you would have no problem with Black Panthers?
23
Were they not white, we would be calling what they really are: terrorists.
10
I find it interesting these "patriots" are using an alias, covering their face, and do not want publicity or photos taken. They are acting like our President... Guilty!
9
It's remarkable how the President and his supporters, including these dregs of society, come off as the bad guys in grade B westerns.
3
Mr Gonzales is woefully misinformed. Only citizens can vote (a naturalized person is a citizen). Naturalization takes at least 5 1/2 years...5 years as a legal resident, another 6 months for the paperwork to become a citizen. If he is trespassing on private property, wielding a weapon against people who are following the law on entering the US because he thinks it is a ploy to acquire voters, I wager he would not pass the citizenship test they will face before they would be eligible. (They can enter anywhere by any method and ask for asylum - it can only be dome on US soil)
What is more concerning even is that Mr Gonzalez took an oath to support and defend the Constitution and is ignoring the protection the migrants have under the Fifth, Sixth and Fourteenth Amendments.
He should go home and brush up on fact.
8
I love these groups who have Constitution in their name. The Constitution is the first thing they throw out the window with their beliefs and their actions.
11
My question from this story: how come felons (especially a 3 time felon) are allowed to win guns?
7
Pretty ironic that the guys playing army yelling about sovereignty are set up illegally on Union Pacific land.
9
Each of us gets one ride - one whirl - on the carousel . . . and this is what these men have decided to do with their ride . . . Haven't they any family, personal passions, ambitions . . . beyond interfering with policing of the border. Remarkable . . .
8
They may have "a right" to be there but they don't have a right to pull a weapon on someone who's not a hostile combatant. Most important of all, they're not helping anybody even though pretend that's what they're doing. If they really want to help in the way they say they want to (which is a self-deception), they could take data for the actual authorities--shoot video, count heads, note the exact locations where people are crossing and what direction they're headed. But of course that's not as much fun as dressing up, giving yourself a cool nickname, and playing army.
6
These vigilantes have no "God-given" right to be anywhere, especially with guns that they are using to terrorize people. The name of the man who asserted such a right says it all: Viper, a snake in the grass whose purpose is to harm others. Yet every religion that has a god of any sort preaches love toward other people. Let them leave or be evicted or better yet, put in jail for disobeying a lawful order.
7
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
This is hardly a WELL REGULATED militia. Disarm the lot of wannabes who don't care to follow the law.
9
I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. -Susan B. Anthony
6
Adventure time campout for unemployed guys with guns, what could possibly go wrong?
9
If employers of undocumented workers were arrested and thrown in jail, we would have no "illegal immigration" problem. It's been that way forever. Anything else is political grandstanding and will solve nothing. America needs to quit demonizing these people and go after the ones that give them a reason to come here.
10
Until America and the United States Armed Forces stop interfering, destablizing, invading, sanctioning, and terrorizing other peoples in other nations I think it's rather rich of us to tell those who's lives we have ruined to not try and escape their fate.
4
Ever notice how all of these guys decry anything smelling like education or common sense, yet try to sound like Constitutional scholars?
11
Why haven't these clowns been arrested?
Because they're white guys.
8
Just imagine a black rights group kidnapping people at gun point while pretending to be law enforcement. They would have been drug off and thrown in prison all of them. Why do these people get a pass? Be honest.
13
Ah, yet another balmy batch of hyper-patriotic, brain-bruised buckaroos. Will the media ever tire of broadcasting their asinine antics?
Just a day or two ago, the NYT published an prefatory piece on them, which included a video clip of a New Mexican supporter of theirs named Clarkson.
Mr. Clarkson claimed, among other things, that his spouse's family were "legitimate" refugees who'd fled the "socialism and tyranny" of Franco's Spain, Mussolini's Italy and the Argentina's military junta.
Nothing can be further from the truth! Neither Franco, nor Mussolini or the Argentinian junta was a socialist. But all were, on the contrary, extreme, right-wing autocrats who loathed socialism and who worked prodigiously exterminate it in their respective countries.
10
We must keep alive and current the history of all the attempts at immigration reform over the last decades that have been shut down by republicans in the House and Senate.
The republicans work diligently to keep relevant legislation from even reaching the floor for debate. News media cooperates by refusing to report because trump tweets get better ratings.
All done so the republican party can claim through fox and sinlair propaganda broadcasts that the democrats refuse to address immigration laws.
Thank goodness the Times has given some coverage to the legislation put forth by democrats or bipartisan groups - but not nearly enough coverage.
NYT: step up the reports on what's been proposed and shot down. If you don't do this, who else will?
7
How ironic that trump has got his supporters all worked up about a medieval wall border, while cleverly not pointing out that he has permitted our enemies to penetrate our cyberspace borders, exploiting America for their (and his) benefit.
Traitor.
5
God doesn't give us our rights. The Constitution does.
5
Who owns the land they are camping on? The article said that the Union Pacific railroad said the group was trespassing to get to their encampment. If the land doesn't belong to one of the group, arrest them. Period. Enough with vigilantism. The vet who said that democrats want illegals because they increase democrats voting doesn't know what he's talking about--illegals can't vote. Maybe if there are PTSD sufferers in the group, they can get some medical help; the others...probably can't be helped.
7
Welp, it doesn’t look like “Viper” ever did any combat control or in camp organization, or has even ever been on a “Spike” for the Forestry or Park service. What kind of camp is that? Why is the Porto Potty so close to their food and obvious sleeping arrangements? Were any of these guys really in the military?Because it just seems like they’re playing dress up and make-believe, they aren’t even welcoming to people who want to join them. It was a hilarious read. And I’ll wager dollar to donuts as soon as it starts to really get hot, even before the triple digits, they’ll go back to their hovels, turn on their swamp coolers, and go back to drinking generic beer in front of the tv/Fox News.
10
Since our government is unwilling or unable to secure our sovereign borders, it’s left up to the citizenry to do it. I don’t care where on the political spectrum these people fall. They’re doing what needs to be done and I applaud their efforts.
10
@Michal
It is also the job of government to pave our roads, coordinate disaster relief and so much more. Why doesn't this group take up road repair or augment the efforts of the Red Cross instead of running amok with deadly weapons like overgrown, deranged Boy Scouts?
77
@Michal thank you.
4
So you give them a pass on kidnapping, impersonating law enforcement and brandishing a weapon while threatening women and children? Obviously the desire to have people follow the laws is relative to them having a perceived benefit to your agenda and the color of their skin.
34
These self appointed border fanatics should go live in a real police state like Russia and see how they like their 'freedom' there. They would come back to the USA with their tails between their legs. Or better yet send them back in time to live in East Berlin under the USSR. Then they would know what a real border Wall looked like and what it means to die in No Man's Land.
9
It's deja vu all over again...These are the same yahoos (or their brothers in lawlessness) who took over the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon a couple of years ago, and raised unholy hell. And they have the same arguments they had when lead by the Bundy boys then -- "God given rights, what's good for the country, their own version of the Constitution, invisible threats and probably aliens crawling out of the woodwork."
Rational people see it and wonder why nobody does anything about it. The United States has reverted back to lawlessness and this won't be the end of it. With Donald Trump constantly stoking the fire and offering pardons to anybody who breaks the law, the glory days of the U.S.A. are forever gone.
I had hoped it would last at least through my children's lives, but I see I was wrong.
12
“The Democrats want illegal immigration because that means more votes for them.”
These groups are founded upon ignorance. Illegal immigrants can't vote. They're making enemies up to have an excuse to play with guns and bolster their sense of self-worth.
15
What's with this God given right nonsense. If God were giving out rights I doubt he would give them to people who try to turn away others who are desperate and in need. I'm sure they identify themselves as "Christian" as well.
17
Why don't they apply for jobs in the Border Patrol if they want to enforce our border laws? If they're patrolling areas that are under-patrolled why isn't the administration increasing the number of Border Patrol in that section? They may have a right to "be there" but they do not have a right to round up border crossers or hold them at gunpoint. This is not Patriotism, it's vigilantism.
85
@JVG
"Why don't they apply for jobs in the Border Patrol if they want to enforce our border laws? "
Because real-life work would spoil the fun of the cosplay.
24
@Thomas J. Cassidy
They don't want to do the paperwork. Especially if it's to explain why they didn't follow the rules.
10
@JVG Because there is not a chance they would pass the background check or the psych test.
17
Yeah.. instead of invoking God they should've invoked Constitution... but these are not word or law masters of the universe... they're folks that see a wrong and try to fix it to the best of their abilities... They stop illegals and call on BP to come pick them up... It is a lawful act allowing any citizen to stop an illegal act to be committed, even detaining the perpetrator(s) while informing the law enforcement. There's no evidence of so called "white supremacy" or "thuggish" behavior as many trying to portray by reading this article since there are plenty of Hispanics as well as whites in the group.
It is discouraging that this paper has decided to print only information completely opposite of truthful representation.
1
If these wannabe vigilantes are so proud of their 'patriotism' and their "god-given" right to intimidate and threaten unarmed women and children, why is it necessary to use aliases and nicknames and to dress more like an ISIS combatant, with the only visible facial feature being the eyes, than like the "Christians" they profess to be?
15
Sure sound like they resemble the thinking of Brown Shirts
8
Irony is white supremacists claiming "God" gave them the right to steal Native American land.
Wait, that's not irony, it's Manifest Destiny!
9
Ooooh... Viper. Now that's one scary name.
4
Well, c'mon you liberals. They have a God-given right. What more is needed when you have a God-appointed president?
Who can quarrel with that mandate? God Bless America, or the nation formerly known as America.
7
Armando Gonzalez? Sounds like a Mexican name to me. And He has PTSD which tells me that he is still looking for the enemy and fighting the war in Iraq or Afganistan or wherever he was. For some reason he seems to think that the women and children crossing the border are the enemy. And he has a gun. This guy is dangerous.
8
Funny thing. I don't recall seeing anything in the Bible about a bunch of right wing gun crazoids having a right to patrol and detain anyone at the US border with Mexico. Their presence there all but guarantees that sooner or later someone will be killed by these fools.
13
Or rightfully defending themselves from them pointing a gun in their face.
Viper!?
No son your name ain't Viper it is Walter Mitty.
8
Amen Jesus. (Hernandez.... we need more Jesus's like him).
I live near this mess. We want them GONE. The border is a systemic process, albeit a broken one, but nut jobs like these guys, make the process much harder.
I'm a 100% disabled veteran that retired to this quiet community for a reason and armed militias IS NOT one of them.
I feel unsafe BECAUSE of their presence as do many of my neighbors. We don't want them here and I'm proud of my governor's response to this group..... ADIOS.
22
So long as Democrats continue to aid aid and abet the brazen and illegal exploitation of our porous borders by ‘Citizens Of Other Countries’ (now numbering over 20 Million in this country) they will NOT get my vote. It’s as simple as that.
7
@Michal
Democrats follow the law... it is not illegal to seek asylum. If you want to change that, do it the proper way and lobby your rep. These "fools" with their guns are nothing about law and order and everything about intimidation because they think they are entitled. I hope they are arrested and charged with trespassing on railroad property.
14
@Michal The 20 million was a number I heard in the early nineties on CNN,Lou Dobbs. It is a lot more than double by now.
1
@Susan
Asylum? Oh please. These people are country-shopping economic migrants.
1
To anyone who would site his "God given right" to be anywhere, should note that God doesn't recognize borders. He also wouldn't recognize these people as Christians.
8
Trump will probably subvert justice with this situation once his focus is directed to it. He'll come out with some tweet blather about "some really fine people protecting the border".
23
An undeputized mob of armed individuals is a gang, not a militia. It's members are thugs, not patriots. Stopping people and taking them prisoner at gunpoint is kidnapping.
Where's a Law and Order president when you need one?
85
Viper reminds me of John C. Reilly's character in Step Brothers. "You have to call me dragon."
7
One of these guys has post-traumatic stress disorder and he's at least around others with semi-automatic weapons and is possibly in possession of one himself? Seriously?
27
Why havent they all been arrested? Impersonating law enforcement, kidnapping, etc...
21
No one has a "God given right" to a gun, military equipment, and acting illegally to shoot at and arrest anyone. Where is THAT in the Bible?
38
@JMA2Y
No one has a "god given right" PERIOD.
7
Life's losers looking for something to replace their usual bleak existence. They would be pathetic if they were not potentially dangerous.
No one has asked them how they can take time off of work to live out a John Wayne fantasy because they have no work.
Trump has filled their empty minds with his xenophobic rants.
54
Should be only a few more hours until the president gives a positive shout out to these patriots.
13
At best they're public nuisances. They demand free hotel rooms and free food from border communities under the pretense of performing a service.
And of course at worst they are terrorists receiving encouragement from the Trump administration.
96
It's more than ironic that those who claim a “God-given right” are often the most irreligious and unChristian.
38
Doesn't a diagnosis of PTSD preclude one from purchasing/ owning a firearm in New Mexico? And I certainly did not vote for them to protect me as a US citizen!
Furthermore, the militia is illegal to begin with so members should face serious consequences. The history of the 2nd amendment only contemplated the use of militia's to quell uprisings by slaves and native Americans.
But slavery has been abolished and native Americans have sadly been reduced to reservation dwellers. It is time to abolish militia's altogether since they serve no lawful purpose and are a threat to public safety.
26
@LH Well, the 2nd amendment contemplated "the defense of a free nation." It also specified a "well regulated militia." That implied a militia organized and supported by the government, which at that time was probably a local or state government. Remember that as late as the Spanish American War local and state governments created and recruited into military organizations for participating in the war, though in later years those groups were offered up to the national military organizations (remember T. Roosevelt''s Rough Riders?).
But it certainly did not contemplate gangs of hooligans accosting and kidnapping people while claiming to be "militia" defending the country. The closest thing to a militia as described in the 2nd amendment that we have today is the National Guard.
6
Why has it come to this, that citizens feel that they have to take the law into their own hands? Call them what you will - vigilantes or an illegal posse comitatus - but theirs is a desperate attempt to act where government inaction has perpetuated an untenable situation: a wholesale migration of peoples from countries whose failed governments are a direct result of their personal failure to change them at the source.
I don't condone the activities of these men and their self-styled border patrol. Two wrongs don't make a right. But the political impasse in our Congress and the border states has borne little result in stemming the flow of illegal immigrants. Why have a body of immigration law at all? Why hasn't the National Guard been mobilized to deal with this issue?
No, I'm sorry, you can't just walk into my country, claim you have a right to do so and reap the benefits for which many generations of Americans have worked so hard and which we are willing to share unselfishly through foreign assistance programs. At least I think that I understand the frustration of many in our nation. How will this end?
13
What do you mean "reap the benefits for which" blah blah blah? The majority of these immigrants are only asking for that which the laws passed by Congress give them -- an opportunity to apply for asylum. We have set out a legal process for asylum seekers, and these people are begging to be brought into the process. They want no more and no less than what we have promised.
If you think the process needs to change, then tell your Congressman. Your denigration of immigrants and unwillingness to condemn the vigilante gang makes your motives suspect.
47
@Chevy
Where have you been for the past decade? Our immigration laws can't be changed because the Republican Party refuses to change them. Our foreign assistance programs, never very generous, were cut entirely to Central American countries by Donald Trump just a few months ago. Read the statistics. Immigration is down and has been going down since about 2008. There is no crisis.
People come here illegally for two reasons: They risk being killed at home or they want a job. We could use our foreign aid and diplomacy (assuming our State Department was funded properly) to help alleviate the problems in Central America causing people to flee and we could focus on work programs and penalizing employers (such as the Trump organization) who hire undocumented people to stem the economic migrants. But these solutions are humdrum and do not make headlines for our narcissistic president who doesn't actually give a flip about immigration. After all, he married two immigrants--one of whom likely came here illegally. He pretends to care about immigration only because it is a good tool to foment hate against brown people. That's how he keeps his base.
51
I’ve seen these arguments that “they made me...we were provoked,” from masked men with guns who go after unarmed poor folks before. In fact there’s a long list, all ugly.
25
Interesting that these individuals don’t want their faces shown. I wish I could at least read the license plates on their vehicles in the lead picture.
6
Wow I didn't realize God had gotten involved in protecting our border. I'm so busy following the president's tweets I must have missed the Lord's, but if he said its our "God given right" then I guess we have an obligation to get down there and help the Viper out. Looks like he could use some reinforcements.
5
So a guy who says he has PTSD straps on a gun and heads to the border to join a militia claiming to protect US sovereignty from a foreign invasion. What could possibly go wrong?
77
@John
Yeah, I thought that was an almost laughable point for him to make, being a vet with PTSD and a loaded weapon playing a border enforcement agent.
No, nothing could possibly go wrong....
9
How to stop the stupidity, if not arrogance, of these self-appointed armed militias, in abusing their status to castigate undocumented migrants as they cross the Mexican-US border? Have they forgotten, by chance, that we are all human beings on mother Earth, none illegal really, just trying to bypass an ill-suited immigration system not updated to fill the needs of new blood (and not to be shot)? To those unwilling to know the history here, thinking their land is a god-given right, a reminder: the entire southwest of these United States, and this includes Tejas and New Mejico, was taken by the US from Mejico around 1848, during Polks' presidency. There. Some humility is in order.
4
"I have a right to be here!"
"No, you're trespassing. That's illegal. You need to leave."
"I have a GOD-GIVEN right to be here!"
"Oh, why didn't you say so in the first place? Carry on, then!"
2
God-given right? How presumptuous! Show us the stone tablets.
8
Whenever I see a bird in the sky who is armed with hunting rifles, dresses in camouflage outfits and is laboring hard under the delusion that Hillary Clinton is the mastermind of a worldwide conspiracy to take over New Mexico and Texas, I let my cats out into the backyard and call the FBI.
5
Please quit identifying these thugs as a "New Mexico militia." They're a group of outsiders who came from somewhere else to impose their own racism and bigotry on border residents. They don't speak for us, and we don't want them here...
10
@Lois Actually, the leader who was arrested was New Mexico homegrown. He is a resident of Flora Vista, in San Juan County NM aka Northwestern New Mexico, a deep red enclave in an otherwise mostly blue state. Another town in the County is Bloomfield, in the news a few years ago when the City Council decided to erect a stone monument with the Ten Commandments of the lawn of City Hall. The city spent tens of thousands of tax payer dollars defending the lawsuit challenging the action on 1st Amendment grounds. Of course they ultimately lost and were forced to remove the monument. San Juan County is so red that Democrats don't even bother to run for office. Whoever wins the Republican primary will be the next office holder. As a registered Democrat living in the same County, I don't even bother to go to the polls for local elections.
1
America's thug culture gets a chance to show off again. Whether it's defending the trespassing on federal land in Nevada by the Bundy family, invading a wildlife preserve in Washington, or swaggering around threatening women and little kids, these blowhards always demonstrate what pathetic bullies they are.
8
Conscript them back into the army and send them off to patrol the far northern Alaskan border.
7
‘Commander’ ? NYT, they’re civilians.
4
And it's New Mexico's god-given right to arrest these critters and get them away from the border.
10
Reality Check: Consider what is going to happen when climate change really kicks in and the equatorial belt heats up enough to melt asphalt. Illegal migration north is going to turn into a tsunami of climate refugees seeking to get away from the heat, disease and social disintegration - no "Big Beautiful Wall" ever built will be able to withstand the tide.
Maybe we should put some serious effort into avoiding a global climate change disaster, for starters.
9
If they are "Constitutional" patriots, why do they invoke a God-given right to do anything? If individual immigrants from a variety of countries are "illegal" because they violate immigration law, why are these rubes pretending to defend national "sovereignty," of all things? Why do these clowns think a military service oath still gives them any authority after they are out of the Army and no longer acting on behalf of the government? Why don't they respect the sacred private property rights of the railroad? And should any of these characters be charged with kidnapping?
6
“It’s my God-given right to be here,” Really, that was the justification for taking the Americas away from the natives.
Could it be, that the natives are now actively expressing their dissent ?
4
It is outrageous that private vigilantes should attempt to secure the U.S. borders on their own initiative.
Any human being in the world has an absolute right to enter the U.S. and claim asylum based on a credible fear of persecution.
According to Gallup, 750 million people worldwide want to migrate, and we had better be prepared for their arrival.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245255/750-million-worldwide-migrate.aspx
4
I fully agree with Mr. Hernandez. These individuals that are technically trespassing on federal and private lands need to go back home and get a job and become the "productive members of society" that they preach about. Oh right, they are probably busy collecting benefits at our expense while harassing women and children at the border.
8
If these men are indeed on such a righteous crusade, then why do they go to such lengths to hide their identity? There's nothing patriotic about them. Nothing.
80
@Bob
probably because they are also Felons, like their leader Larry Hopkins, banned by US law from possessing firearms, or ammunition.
So they don't want to be identified, by having their pictures taken.
9
There is a vast difference between the absolute necessity that the US or any countries protect and regulate who comes across our borders AND HOW WE ARE GOING TO DO THAT .
It is very different when "your God" you created, that means absolutely nothing to the hundreds of other human gods created by other humans just as smart or dumb as you are THAT CREATED THEIR OWN RIGHTS JUST AS YOU HAVE.
Granted at the moment, what you are doing may decrease illegal immigration ..... but what happens when someone else's religion tells them to forcibly detain you, like the terrorist, if you happen to be in their country?
3
"God-given right"
Where have I heard that before?
Oh right.
The Crusades.
Clearly, we've come a long way.
27
Our own US Border Patrol is complicit if they continue to allow these armed vigilantes to mete out their work.
15
I doubt that all of these clowns are vets. It's pretty easy to check this out. A couple of questions having to do with the minutia of military reality would do it. It's worked for me.
15
Seems to me most central Americans have quite a bit of native American DNA. Maybe it is them that have a God-given right to North America.
20
@Michael Hillman
Mr Hillman, you are so right. Plus, the first Spaniards to come to Texas and New Mexico were Pineda in 1519 and Cabeza de Vaca about 1530. 500 years ago or 1/4 of the time since Jesus Christ. The first Anglo-Americans not until about 1820 or 300 years later. In both cases, Native American and Hispanic, the God-given right is possessed by them.
2
@Marcus Aurelius
You might want to do a little research about who made the mess there.
2
White supremacist thugs taking the law into their own hands is extremely dangerous. Families fleeing US-caused violence in Mexico and Central America are simply trying to survive, which is a human right. I have no doubt the white supremacist militants would do whatever they had to do to protect their families, including becoming asylum seekers, if they had to do so. Yet these privileged white men want to deny others the right to life and safety from physical violence by threatening violence towards them. Hypocrites and thugs. New Mexico is a blue state. These rural outliers deserve to be arrested and prosecuted for fomenting violence and hate.
24
Lunatics believe that invoking the name of "God" entitles them to blow things up, brutalize and kill people because they are on a Holy Crusade to rid the world of non-believers, and in this case, camouflaged crazies want to stop an "invasion" of non-whites.
It is America's version of the Taliban who seek themselves as religious warriors protecting the Holy Land from those they perceive are the enemies, including women and children.
As soon as there is an armed confrontation, Fox "News will start describing them as "patriots" securing the border.
Trump just underscored this by threatening to send more troops to the border.
This right-wing encampment is the nefarious residue from a country where millions of whites are terrified of losing control of social, economic and political power to non-whites.
Meanwhile, the Republican Congress does nothing, and the Democrats bicker among themselves about impeaching a criminal.
19
“We’re here to protect Americans from the illegals violating our sovereignty.”
And who will protect us against those who use this as an excuse to take the law into their own hands and break it themselves?
As with our criminal president and his co-conspirators, Americans who obey the laws ask who will stand up for the right thing to do when tiny, self-appointed elites make a mockery of our laws while seizing the power to further abuse the public trust?
20
Vigilantes are bad. This is unallowable. But then again the occupant in the White House is unallowable. This country is in a sad way.
21
If these yahoos were black they would at a minimum have been arrested and more likely have been shot dead by police or border patrol. How can authorities allow an armed vigilante group to wander around "detaining" (kidnapping) people? Oh, yeah. They're white.
223
Every photo of these Barney Fife types shows them masked. 18 USC § 241 makes it a felony to go "in disguise" to violate anyone's civil rights. If kidnapping is involved the penalty is up to life imprisonment. Kidnapping seems to be an apt description of masked, armed men holding groups of migrants against their will. Similarly, 18 USC § 242 makes it a felony to violate anyone's civil rights "under color of law" because they are, among other things, an alien. Again, masked, armed men making "citizens arrests" of groups of aliens who the militia says are violating US law would seem to qualify as a violation of § 242. It's time for the federal government to enforce the law with respect to these vigilante groups.
62
@Steve M
Those who take the law into their own hands need to be rounded up and arrested.
5
Militia:
We want to prevent unauthorized immigrants from coming in to the nation. We believe their presence violates U.S. law.
U.S. Law:
Sorry, you don't have the right to enforce federal immigration law.
Militia:
Who cares about U.S. law? We have a God-given right to be here.
Refugees:
We like your argument above. Can we go ahead and use it?
***The militia members are hypocritical, bellicose thugs, who have taken it on themselves to selectively enforce laws. That is not (yet) the American way.
89
@Larry P. Selective law enforcement is not the American way? Where have you been, may I ask?
4
@Larry P.
Constitution/U.S. Law:
Any citizen in witness of unlawful act has the RIGHT to stop / prevent it from happening while informing law enforcement at earliest convenience...
That's what they did.
Illegals: Not legal immigrants, not following US Law of immigration and asylum seeking. Illegally crossing country's border to seek economic benefits.
@Jack
"Constitution/U.S. Law: Any citizen in witness of unlawful act has the RIGHT to stop / prevent it from happening while informing law enforcement at earliest convenience"
I'm witnessing illegal acts by this president right now. Acts far worse than families seeking asylum from hostile conditions and surrendering to Federal officials.
Who do I contact about this?
11
It is their right, as American citizens, to be there and help out with the job of securing the borders in areas where the US government is failing.
It's not like they are enforcing and unjust law, they're catching people trying to sneak in and if they need the US border patrol, it really is just that simple
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@There
No, it is not their right to break the law.
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Probably you should read the article. These women and kids are looking for border patrol to make their asylum pleas. So there’s nothing this “militia “ can help with.
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@There - One of their members was just arrested for being a convicted felon in possession of an assault rifle. Several have PTSD. They are wearing masks, Etc. Peel the onion and you will find that these are fringe elements at best. Really do not want them running around armed trying to detain people.
4
"'It’s my God-given right to be here,' said one balaclava-clad militia member who gave his name only as Viper."
That's ironic.
Since he's using that allegedly "God-given" right in part to intimidate asylum seekers.
Asylum seekers who have an international and U.S. law-given right to be on U.S. soil while going through the asylum process.
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"Viper"? Ridiculous. Why aren't these guys at work?
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@kg Because these fine gentlemen are a sample of what constitutes Trump's base: irrelevant white supremacists that have no place in our society. They reached the bottom of the barrel and blame it on the immigrants and the democrats .. just like Trump.
5
Please don’t legitimize those thugs with the term “militia”. If they were not white, everyone would just be calling them a gang... or, if they weren’t a WASPy enough kind of white, a mob. Either one would be a better term, though, than militia. What they’re doing is not “One if by land, two if by sea.” This is: “We hate the darkies.”
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If they weren’t white they would be in prison for their actions day one. Republicans desire to enforce laws are totally one sided. We have to follow the laws while they can ignore them. It’s quite obvious by the posts.
2
You cannot imagine how much better we sleep knowing that ultra patriots like "Viper", "Striker" and General Horton/General Hopkins are right there on the border detaining 4-year old Guatemalan girls from menacing our lives.
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@Matthew O'Brien - Those 4-year old Guatemalan girls are going to cost you plenty in educational and healthcare expenses. Wake up!
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@S Sm
Yeah, a whole fraction of a penny.
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@S Sm, those immigrants won't cost nearly as much as the grubby, insane, for-profit (capitalism) of the United States' "health" insurance conglomerates. Wake up indeed.
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These fools should be evicted at once from their encampment. They can go home and live out their “tough guy” fantasies playing video games.
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Like so many vigilantes before them, these people hold strong biases and are consumed by fear. They arm themselves thinking that shows strength when its overt evidence of their weakness. Their display of contempt for the communities into which they intrude provides nothing helpful to our society. If they were really strong people they'd be volunteers showing compassion to those in need. So far, it appears they don t have the strength to do that.
22
We are a nation of laws. For example, revenge is not allowed to play out among citizens when in a compact within the nation that only allows punishment to be meted out by the State.
There is such a thing as the Posse Comtatus but even that is only to be called by the Sherrif if he or she needs the help of ordinary citizens in an emergency. These Militia folks have no legitimacy in their actions on immigrants except to protect their own home if it were invaded by immigrants with intent to inflict harm.
8
I'm not sure "Viper's" right to be there is God-given. In fact, if that's the case, is that God-given right any more applicable to someone born above the border versus someone born below, or born in Asia, or born in the Middle East? I don't recall in the Bible any parsing of U.S. land to those born in the U.S. or anywhere else. For "Viper" to quote the Bible is, in my sole opinion, quite hypocritical relative to his actions. I think he should quote Trump instead. Clearly his religion - his belief beyond what his earthly senses and sense guide him - is Trumpism.
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Because it's oddly absent from this story, here is a pertinent law in New Mexico - NMSA 1978 sec. 31-4-14, "Arrest without a warrant" (enacted in 1937). It does allow for citizen's arrest, but requires that the person has already been charged with a felony by authorities and failed to appear. In other words, probable cause has been established by professionals and a warrant has been issued by a judge:
"The arrest of a person may be lawfully made also by any peace officer or a private person without a warrant upon reasonable information that the accused stands charged in the courts of a state with a crime punishable by death or imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, but when so arrested the accused must be taken before a judge or magistrate with all practicable speed and complaint must be made against him under oath setting forth the ground for the arrest as in the preceding section [31-4-13 NMSA 1978]; and thereafter his answer shall be heard as if he had been arrested on a warrant."
13
Their “ God-given right” to do what they want regardless of the law. This is the predictable end game of Reaganism playing out everywhere. From people refusing to vaccinate their children because it is their “right” to be selfish and uncaring of the safety or needs of others, to all manner of anti-social behaviors that were once considered unthinkable but which are now the norm.
This is the world Reaganism created. We are no longer a nation, let alone a society or community. America is an assembly of millions of individuals all doing what Reagan told them to do. Look out for #1 and do what ever you want, no matter how it harms others.
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"Viper", "Pops", don't like publicity. Why aren't they proud of what they are doing? Who is supporting these guys? The guy from Tulsa is retired military. Are we paying these guys to set up on private property, trespass and intimidate?
I do have to say, I like Viper's name. Viper, oooohhhh, makes me tremble.
37
If these guys want to play army so badly, maybe they should get in shape, get their lives together, and enlist and actually do something for their country.
Hoarding guns and dressing up in camouflage is no way for patriotic citizens to behave, let alone kidnapping migrants and harassing citizens. These guys are domestic terrorists.
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Well, if you do not follow the law, just said that it was your "God-given right" to do i. One of those God-is-on-my-side said that the Democrats support illegal immigration so those illegal immigrants could vote for the Democrats. How could you vote if officially you are not in the country? Can you explain how it could be done?
21
The GOP has obstructed all attempts to reform and produce a workable immigration policy since the Nixon administration. Reagan was unable to achieve much; instead granted an amnesty. GW Bush was blocked at every move to establish a workable policy.
Trump-Pence have learnt well from these failures and are reproducing them with embellishments and gusto by inflaming the most ignorant and stupid amongst their base to behave as vigilantes.
As we pursue this path of ignorance, daily we become more and more the 'banana republic' we are so fond of calling all countries of central and south America. Bravo GOP, your efforts are returning USA to it's roots.
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So God took a map and arbitrarily created nation-states on it then invested the Klan with the responsibility of defending the boundaries, what an enlightened notion!
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These idiots are pathetic fools who never grew out of their infantile need to play cowboys and Indians. They don't realize that everyone is laughing at them.
55
Hmmmm. They call themselves names like "Viper" and "Pops," march around with assault weapons, wear black face masks and dark glasses not to be identified, pour in to the southwest from out of state, and talk about their God-given right to protect the area as THEIR land. Sounds like a group in Iraq and Syria I've heard about in the news.
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Or like the kind of city gang that those same domestic terrorists would act all tough-guy against.
Meanwhile, our regime is groping and RFID-ing non-terrorists like us who travel within the country, instead of fighting these actual terrorists. And the news plays along and IDOLIZES the vile TSA's workers!
1
The price of poorly educating your people is nonsense like this.
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It is hard for me to understand how these border protective civilians justify their actions. I suppose that if you are willing to address the world as Viper, you are living in a quite different reality than I am. Clearly, these people have too much time on their hands, and need to be employed with something other than harassing border crossers. Maybe a job with the actual border patrol would be a good career choice, or maybe they are all convicted felons and cannot apply? It is hard to know.
25
The lowest echelons of society are tormenting the desperate.
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Trespassing on private property? Believing that you can stop someone from taking your photo while you’re in public? These guys have a tenuous understanding of the law.
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@KatPat
These guys have tenuous understanding. Period. Ignorant little boys who like to play with toys that make loud noises.
22
“Our god given right to be here” god seems to always be the problem. If people would just admit there is no god, and maybe we would treat each other better.
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@Albert in CA. Amen brother.
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@Albert in CA Precisely my wise co-reader!
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@Albert in CA That is much too cynical (and dismissive) of religion. The fake faithful fly planes into buildings and run off to the desert to threaten to kill unarmed people. Sincerely faithful people make the world a better place than it would be otherwise. One is religion and the other is rhetoric.
2
In the 50-60s the Ku Klux Klan roamed the streets of Tuscaloosa, Alabama and other cities, picketing churches, lighting crosses, etc. The business people told the Sheriff and elected officials it must stop. It did, banished to the dark. Later, the Southern Poverty Law Center sued a Klan branch, successfully, bankrupting them. Now there are laws that can close these terrorists down if political will exists.
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“If you ask me this is all about politics,” said Mr. Gonzalez, adding that he was a disabled Army veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder. “The Democrats want illegal immigration because that means more votes for them.”
I’m not comfortable with a man who suffers from PTSD being armed, much less one with such a narrow-minded myopic viewpoint.
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@Jim
I had the same thought, Jim. To even claim PTSD to a journalist I find bizarre. Well, I guess that's the quality of the "thinking" of these nut cases.
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@Jim I believe the guy when he says he has PTSD, and probably is a veteran who served in one of the wars the republicans drummed up with their endless lies. And now he believes the Trump/Limbaugh/Hannity lie repeated 24/7 that democrats want open borders to increase their votes. This man's whole life is based on his believing in republican lies. Looks like that's really all he's got. It's becoming the story of millions of Americans, and Mitch McConnell can tell you that it works beautifully.
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@Jim
Please do not assume he has PTSD simply because he claims it. I am a disabled Viet Nam vet who, after dealing with my own issues, has peer-counseled hundreds of my brothers and sisters dealing with the disorder and its consequences.
I have lost count of the "wannabe's" who claim to have the disorder, yet were lying. It also extends to civilians I have known who claim to suffer but haven't the foggiest idea of what PTSD entails.
It's more and more like Woodstock. If everyone who claimed to be there actually were, there w/h/b four million people, not 400,000.
8
I heard this same language yesterday on NPR from who I thought was the lawyer for these freaks.
"God-given right". Dig that, huh? Beyond the law, actual outright contempt for our laws.
How do we define that, nowadays? In olden times, "outlaw" was enough. But this is terrorism, isn't it?
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Not sure I trust jobless and aimless men who self-identify as "Viper" to enforce American law at gunpoint along out borders.
I agree with Mr. Hernandez - get a job.
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@Nick
Which begs the bigger question, how are these guys getting paid? Please don't tell me they're on welfare or whatever it's called these day.
6
Please don't coddle these racists as is done with so many of these self-styled "patriotic" militias. Arrest and prosecute!
140
Take them off the board. This is glasnost all over again, cut the head off before it becomes too late. These guys are scummy, stupid criminals who are pretty much kidnapping people at gun point.
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