'“Boeing South Carolina teammates are producing the highest levels of quality in our history,” Kevin McAllister, Boeing’s head of commercial airplanes, said in a statement.'
Class: which word reeks the most? Teammates, correct. You all got it.
7
Phew. I've been reading so many of these illuminating comments. I wonder why we don't see anonymous comments from current commercial airline pilots on their experiences on flying and training on the 787s and on the aerodynamically unstable B737Max 8 & 9?
11
Seems flying these days is like playing aerial Russian Roulette. Just hope that the defective part allowed into your flight doesn't cause a catastrophe. Lowering standards and using a sub par workforce for short term reasons will, in the long run destroy the company. I mean, no one will want to fly or buy their products because they keep CRASHING and KILLING people. Boeng either needs to have the highest safety standards possible or they deserve to go out of business. There is no third choice.
24
Is it a coincidence that this happens in the wake of the production move from Seattle to North Carolina, i.e., from a state that is strongly pro-union to a “right to work” state?
41
Regarding "Employees are supposed to clean the bowels of the aircraft as they work"...
Sounds like they need to have more workers, and teams dedicated to cleaning up all the debris, shavings etc... as they go along...
But that would cost more and lower profits, margins and shareholder returns for Wall Street and bonuses for management... (I guess)...
25
Boeing planes fly thousands of times a day without incident. The company has everything to lose whenever a plane malfunctions or crashes. It is not unaware of or unconcerned with passenger safety. Constant articles like yours, questioning Boeing's essential integrity, threaten to drive the company out of business and create a panic among its customers. Is the company perfect? No. Is Airbus? No. There is no perfection in this world, but that doesn't mean no one is aiming for it.
9
So now it is all of a sudden OK to take shortcuts that affect overall safety?
27
My hunch is that one root of the recent tragedies is
Boeing's decision to move its headquarters in 2001 to
Chicago to be closer to the sources of contracts and politicians. The message or meta-message to employees about the move is that money and profits now take precedence over design and engineering. I share an old fashioned belief that CEOs need to manage by walking around. The Boeing CEO could not oversee design and production in Seattle from Chicago let alone another plant on the east coast.
17
Just another sign in the slow death of America under a two party system trained by Jesuits.
7
MAGA! I am waiting Trump's tariff response to this issue.
Another great piece of NYT reporting.
And, Yikes!
8
Are the managers of the two planes that went down going to be prosecuted for manslaughter?
9
I'm happy to know that the FAA is on top of things.
3
Further proof that MBA bean counters, who know the price of everything and the value of nothing, should never be allowed to make any decision more important than whether or not to order Chinese takeout for lunch. The "MBA-ization" of America is responsible for 90% of the problems we have today in every business.
When Boeing was run by "airplane guys," they never allowed such fakakte as this article describes to happen. They would have been ashamed to produce airplanes like these. For an MBA moron, the "profit" to be made in all the needed fixes is a "feature," not a "bug" because they have no understanding of what they're really doing. The same is true in any business where they've been allowed to proliferate.
28
The commercial aviation industry (Airlines and manufacturing) is the only major industry no one have bothered to examine. Over a 35 year period,American commercial aircraft manufacturing went from three major suppliers to one and airlines disappeared in droves; millions of employees displaced and good paying airline jobs going with them, replaced by minimum-wage contract work.
Who paid attention? No one- even though air travel is as necessary as automobile travel. Why didn't anyone notice or care? Simply put, air travel is still thought of as a luxury rather than a vital component to this nation's economic well being.
8
It's becoming embarrassing the situation inside Boeing. To resort to pressure to silence defective manufacturing is indeed revealing. It's like the whole process of competition around the world where the abuse of power is becoming the new normal, particularly by U.S.as a country whose world dominance is no more ensured. But the 'strategy' consisting in cheating or suppressing the opponent is indicative of weakness if not squarely of decadence.
13
This is why government regulations are so important. There should be far more government inspectors involved in the design and manufacturing processes.
25
Boeing has allowed outside "bean-counter analysts" to tell them how to build an airplane.
12
So sick and tired of corporations only caring about profits and here they are risking our very lives. These plane crashes were entirely predictable and Boeing's CEO and other top management should go. If you hire non-union, unskilled labor who probably also consider cleaning up metal shavings after themselves to be 'women's work,' what do they expect?
26
This frightening article brought back some bad memories of my 40 years in the industrial building trades. When I was a field manager we would have to implement many schedules and budgets that we experienced field personnel knew were fantasies. But the corporate drill always continued, with high level management pushing incessantly against the hard realities of actually building something.
It also reminds me of one the most important facts unearthed in the investigations into the crashes of the 737 Max jet. One of the management directives in the 737 Max redesign was that it should not cause the airlines to require additional simulator training. This reveals that Boeing management has a mania about cost control that has brought the whole company to the edge of financial disaster. This extends, obviously, to their work force, and relocation to an area where there "...was no work force comparable to the generations of aerospace professionals the company had nurtured in the Seattle area."
And, of course the new Boeing wants a "pool of nonunion workers." This, imo, is not just about lower personnel costs. It is about depriving workers of power, and basic workplace independence. The last thing the new Boeing wants is a pool of professional aircraft manufacturing workers who will stand up to management--in the board room and the factory floor--about cost and schedule when they inevitably conflict with actually building a product that has to work, every single time.
37
The next time I fly on a piece of Boeing equipment, I will be looking for the "Union Label".
25
If production is fine at the South Carolina plant, repeatedly firing whistleblowers strikes me as a poor way to confirm it.
23
"The heart will still be beating and the employees will still be cowering."
A proud quote from X soap seller and Boeing CEO McNerney [2005-2015] when asked if he planned to retire which might relate to Boeing "culture" noted is this article.
Just a guess, but I bet producing high quality airplanes requires a highly skilled workforce cultivated over decades.
McNerney's tactic of reducing aerospace engineers to "cowering" produced the 737 and Max debacle.
Short term profits, long term disaster.
21
We need to make a distinction between design vs mfg flaw. The MCAS problems that caused the recent crashes are most likely design and/or procedural flaws. The problems cited in this article appear mfg. process/quality control issues.
Also may point out a cultural issue: Seattle vs the South where quality is not always on front burner.
19
Is there no employee training, and where are the supervisors and a sense of accountability up and down the production line? It seems there is a lack of pride in work and workplace. If you haven’t put away all materials and tools or left your workplace cleaner than you found it, you don’t understand the job. This is both an executive leadership and worker problem!
11
As a retiree of nearly 30 years in the airline industry, I can tell you that "safety over profit" does NOT exist until there is a fatality or law suit. The CEOs, all hot shots with an MBA, are only concerned with numbers. Safety, personnel, quality control,... are all a drag on the bottom line. We were constantly under scrutiny for log book entries and dispatched with "legal" but questionable discrepancies. It's all about the bucks, NOT safety!
27
Priority one Boeing will hire spin gurus, intimidate whistle blowers and lie, as they try to suppress bad publicity. Maybe, they will clean up the production problems too.
4
So when I go to Europe this September, instead of flying Norwegian with their 787's I guess I'll use Icelandair and pay more (their fleet is all older Boeings made in Seattle) or Delta which uses Airbus aircraft and pay much much more.
I agree with the comments about American capitalism run amok but I fear it's way too late to stop.
(Full disclosure I'm a flight instructor.)
24
I choose my airlines carefully and have for years checked the aircraft in use before booking. Bottom line: I only fly Lufthansa overseas. In the US, it was always Southwest, but alas, I may have to look for an alternative--is there one?--if they insist on the Boeing Max.
5
It's time for Dennis Muilenburg to resign. Clearly Boeing has been prioritizing profit over safety under the current leadership team. This might not just Dennis, his predecessors all are responsible as safety issues don't happen overnight.
14
Sure hope no one is surprised at this article. It's the "American way." Almost everything that is made is made with one goal: maximize profits!! A few metal shavings, a beer can hidden away, poor paint, etc., etc..... what's to worry about? The stockholders want to see the stock going up and any way this can be done is fine with them. The Law of Diminishing Returns is at work and is catching up to us.
11
@john
" It's the "American way"....
Is that a new thing? Only, I worry that you're doing down your nation's fantastic industrial heritage.
The industrial and military might of the USA is built on another 'American way' - the ability to make things pretty well at lower cost and far faster than America's clunky, staid rivals, principally European ones.
1
After this superb reporting by The Times, we now know another reason why a far-right, business-first deregulator like Trump wants to destroy the free press.
24
Silly me, I would've thought an airplane manufacturer -- indeed, the premier manufacturer -- would be the one entity that would not want ever to cut corners in how its planes are put together. But it looks like Boeing would prefer to make obscene profits, rather than 'merely' robust profits, even it lives, human lives, are put at considerably grave risk. And I also would've thought this would be the one entity to encourage complaints from any employees who detected sloppiness, or worse, in the manufacturing process -- but here again, they appear to have been marginalized and punished if they dared speak out. Sickening. And very very scary. I for one will never fly a 737 Max, or 787 Dreamliner.
14
The corrupt culture of "money is all that matters" has permeated every vein of the American society and Boeing's methods display it vividly. For profits anything goes, never mind future costs.
The attitude of the supporters of Mr. Trump and Republicans is exhibit A of this corrupt culture. They say they will put up with any manner of unethical or criminal behavior of the President as long as the economy is doing well.
14
Are there any honest executives anymore.
13
I'll avoid flying Boeing planes as much as possible.
9
If it's not Airbus, I'm not going... Even if it doesn't rhyme
17
Even one minor concern about the safety of planes should be taken extremely seriously
7
I’m wondering if there is a way for the flying public to find out which planes are manufactured in Everett
9
This is of very little concern as AOCs Green New Deal has us not needing airplanes in a dozen years anyway...
3
I'm shorting Boing in the morning. I suggest every other investor do the same. No more upside to this behemoth.
14
boing also moved production to China from wichita, where there has been a large pool of skilled and unionized (SPEA) aviation technicians since the second world war.
6
Boeing needs to recognize that they get what they pay for in cheap untrained labor in NC. Getting rid of QC personnel is criminal.
12
Complex tasks require educated, dedicated workers with organized, knowledgeable supervisors. Bodies, even wearing MAGA hats will not suffice.
That is why complex technologies, health care, information technology are all suffering in the U.S., and when they do remain - as health care must - the workforce is highly penetrated by immigrant populations.
The U.S. has labored under the myth that the balance sheet is more important that the knowledge base, which guarantees shoddy products and wealthy CEOs. And now we are lead by the paragon of "businessmen".
11
A year ago I had my first (still only) flight on a 787. It was AirFrance, and they had just introduced it on the Paris-Boston route. They had to move me from my first-row premium economy seat, where I had looked forward to having no seat in front of me, because the leg-rest on this virtually brand-new plane was broken, stuck in a partially open position. I thought that was odd and annoying, but hadn't thought about it again, until I read this article today.
14
Old fashioned engineering, old fashioned worl conditions, old fashioned labor conceptions lead to failures like in the rest of the US society.
An Airbus is built with much more modern engineering , more modern work conditions and labour laws.
Airbus workers have 5 weeks paid vacation per year, free health care, free higher education for their children .free university studies, they work 35 hours a week and produce more per capita than in the USA .
25
@JPH
An Airbus is built with much more modern engineering..
That's because Boeing still sell a heck of a lot of retro-chic, analog-in-a-digital-world passenger jets. Many airlines, ground engineers and yet more pilots still love and trust that 20th century feel.
How fickle we flying public are! Six months ago, we were berating Airbus for its 'overautomation', its deskilling of pilot users. its wacky pitot tube system and so on.
A year ago, 'Scarebus' was defined by Air France 447; Boeing could do no wrong.
1
If airlines and plane manufacturers don't recognize that safety is their most important product, I can't see how they will survive.
People ultimately will not fly in death traps.
16
This makes me adverse to flying on Boeing commercial aircraft. Not that I have a choice, the airlines decide what equipment to use, but if I have a choice I will shun Boeing.
9
He should have led Boeing, maybe we can entice, Alan Mullaly to become President of the USA. We're going to need someone with ethics and intelligence to lead a massive turnaround of our Country. I'm sure his experience at Ford was a great training ground.
4
The 737 story is simply that management decided to take a huge risk after Lion Air even though they knew MCAS was fatally flawed. Boeing’s senior management has long been bent by insane arrogance. The 767 scandal and the 787 production / battery issue handling were absolutely egregious false communications by top management. Boeing is a great company that builds great products that has a real credibility issue at the top. Richly deserved. Even so, it is an exaggeration to suggest their products are generally unsafe. They are not. The issues are specific to individual people.
3
@rjs7777
I humbly suggest, more realistically: Boeing was a great company that built great products that no longer has that much credibility, especially at the top.
18
Does the bear go to the bathroom in the woods? Is Boeing willing to sacrifice the safety of their product to maximize profit?”: two questions with a clear and resounding answer: YES. And that is the essential flaw of capitalism, except the bears.
5
I think it's worth pointing out that While 787's are built both in Seattle and North Carolina, the 737 MAX is assembled only in Renton WA, and completed 737 fuselages are built in Witicha KS.
3
This is an important article, providing insight into the management approach of Boeing executives, profits over people. I also wonder how much the FAA is doing on this score. If quality managers are getting fired for reporting safety issues, then that becomes a safety issue and the FAA has to investigate. Obviously, change is needed at Boeing. In the rush to make big bucks the CEO and his executives are willing to sacrifice the safety of the flying public. If a quality manager reports a problem he/she should be listened to not fired for doing his/her job. Under no circumstances should quality and safety be sacrificed for profits. The lives of the flying public depend on planes that are made to the highest quality standards.
9
This article is very typical of where the NYT has gone. Big on innuendo and assertions, short on facts. It is based on an Al Jazera report several years ago which was full ominous statements of "I'd never fly that plane."
The FAA keeps excellent statistics on every type of aircraft incident, literally down the the toilet paper. (Yep the TP is on the MEL, an Air Canada flight was recently held from takeoff because of this).
Where are the reports of manufacturing defects causing issues? Why did the NYT not research this, or did they. Why just rely on an outdated AJ video.
There has never been a 787 hull loss or fatality so you can't improve on that safety record. Airlines keep buying the planes, do you think they would if they had issues?
There is a lot about Boeing that has headed south since the they purchased McD. The 787 was a program management disaster of epic proportions and Boeing has stated they will not go that route (using an extensive network of subs to design and build major assemblies) again.
Boeing clearly has issues but I would be the vast majority of commenters on here have never built a thing in their life.
12
Why do you question the Time’s research? — From the second paragraph:
A New York Times review of hundreds of pages of internal emails, corporate documents and federal records, as well as interviews with more than a dozen current and former employees, reveals a culture that often valued production speed over quality.
10
@Dennis
Innuendo and assertions? Two planes crashed. 337 people died. That’s not innuendo.
5
Sorry, but I don't trust the FAA (under his tRumpness) any more than Boeing's execs. Recent stories in the NYT, WaPo and numerous other media sources have highlighted the 'cooperation' between the FAA and Boeing...essentially the fox in charge of the hen house. I think the Times's reporting is right on. I think there is a need for a division of labor here with true oversight.
7
"Regulators and lawmakers are taking a deeper look at Boeing’s priorities, and whether profits sometimes trumped safety. "
Gosh, ya think??? Color me unsurprised...
6
I hate to break to the flying community but ALL airplanes will have some debris created during production. From Cessnas to the F-117 and probably the space shuttle, it is virtually impossible not to have debris found inside airlines.
This is nothing new. From the earliest aircraft, and my husband has worked on them, debris has been found inside aircraft. Maintenance, exposure to weather and use can create even more debris inside an airplane.
Mechanics are trained and the FAA requires that debris be cleaned when found. It's been like this for 110 years.
There is probably some statistics that shows how many air crashes caused by unwanted things in airframes. I'm fairly sure, even with my unnerving claims that it's very low.
The airplane is built only once. Maintenance occurs upwards of hundreds of times during an aircraft's life. You can thank penny-pinching airplanes and permissive FAA to allow non-FAA-rated mechanics to do work under a FAA-certified manager, often done at third-party maintenance facilities all of which are pressured to make a profit.
One day, ignorance, carelessness or a combination of these things will factor into a future crash. Imagine, debris is just one thing among thousands of potential problems.
But, hey, commercial flying for U.S. carriers have enjoyed a great recent safety record.
But, hey, one loss will still make a good safety record.
The FAA is running on borrowed time at the peoples' expense.
2
Poor quality in US manufacturing. Go figure.
9
Profit first, security second. Are we supposed to be surprised?
7
Perhaps this was always the way that Boeing was, yet I find that very hard to believe. And perhaps, at least to me, even harder and sadder to believe than Boeing's unsafe, unprofessional and unethical behavior was its CEO call to Trump asking him to look the other way. How far and high Boeing has come since its founder put his name on its wings and how steep and low its decline has fallen is truly sad.
8
Rampant corporate greed and ludicrous GOP deregulation has allowed the kind of corner cutting that could ruin Boeing... Until Boeing proves to billions of annual travelers that it has returned to sound business practices (including first rate safety standards), it might be a good time to invest in (and demand to fly in) Airbus.
11
Of course it’s shoddy. It’s American made.
8
I am sure this has nothing to with the fact that South Carolina is a right to work state. Just like that explosion in a plant in Texas had nothing to do with lack of and hatred of regulations at the state level.
25
What, safety!?
What about shareholder value!?
ROI is what matters!
And not next year, but next month!
5
Safety standards are almost always written in blood. First people die; then the rules are written. Even, regrettably, at Boeing.
8
There are three ways to make it: fast, good and cheap. Pick any two.
3
@mark fast and good?
Yes but then not cheap.
I guess they have become just like the U.S. car manufacturers. I made a big mistake a few years ago and bought a Chrysler product. I remember reading the owners manual. There was a line that stated that I had bought the finest automobile made. Well that pile of garbage was in the shop just about every month for some kind of repair. The same thing will happen to Boeing. In its insatiable journey towards profits, it will build shoddy planes that will fail. The executives will lie and the public will lose confidence in the product. That will be it's death knell.
8
Capitalism corrupts.
8
The writers raise more questions than they answer. Up to a point that is normal. The quotes are from workers and worker and management retirees. There is a lack of defense from the online management theoretically responsible. Not clear how hard the reporters pushed Boeing management.
There have been continuing labor issues in South Carolina. Do the complaints cross path as they often do with labor management issues.?Credibility on both sides is left hanging.
The writers undercut their most draconian images by underplaying or omitting important facts. The 787 in it's 8 and 9 variants have thus far been reliable, average teething problems (the battery issues aside that had nothing to do the airframe). Where which variant is built is never made clear.
Others who built airplanes point out that detritus lying around, forgotten tools and similar anomalies are not dreaded safety issues. How often do surgeons leave a tool behind inside the body?
Mistakes at Boeing that led to the current MAX grounding legitimately raise issues in journalism: let's look at Boeing's practices on the other main productions lines. This "investigation" leaves a lot to be desired between innuendo and legitimate concerns.
1
Why did it take over 300 deaths to bring public and regulatory attention to shoddy production?
6
When I worked for an aerospace company in the 80's quality
was king, the workers were unionized , and the FAA did their
job. However things have obviously changed based on your
excellent report. Citizens united, the rise of cooperate power, cheap inexperienced labor,the rush for profits over quality,
and the deregulation of the FAA. Unfortunately real people were
killed when the 2 max 737's crashed.
l
16
Profits trumping safety .... Hmmm. It’s hard to imagine such a thing in this current climate of “modern conservative” (aka: radical reactionary) thought, isn’t it? Quite obviously, I jest.
These so called “unfettered free market” proponents have an abiding and utterly blind faith in the almighty MARKET and it’s ability to make “adjustments” without having the onerous burden of government regulations to deal with. And you know, they do have a point.
The MARKET for Boeing is “adjusting” right now. Ah, but at what cost? Hundreds of deaths finally get the attention of the media and responsible politicians (there are a few left in this nation). So, the MARKET begins to ponder the cost-benefit analyses of the effect of all those human lives cut short, squandered, horribly ended, and something begins to get done. Ta Da!
What could possibly work better? Surely not adherence to established safety rules and regulations that are enforced by an effectively trained and fully funded oversight arm of the government that has PUBLIC SAFETY as its number one priority. Surely not!
5
There goes any idealistic view of the value and benefit of "Made in the USA". Boeing had an iconic and trusted brand, and ran it into the dirt to save a few pfennigs here and there JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER AMERICAN MANUFACTURER who values profit and pinching pennies over production of a solid and decent product.
12
RE: "describing issues like defective manufacturing, debris left on planes"
So are these the result of sloppy working, like people complaining about the city not picking up the trash that they threw on the sidewalk, or the result of management not allowing them to time to clean up the debris or to correctly manufacture the piece and parts?
3
@Marie
Not quite the same situation. Sidewalks don't fail from FOD, crash and kill 200 passengers and crew.
2
Before this, I had not really paid much attention to what aircraft I was flying but you can be certain that I will from now on and so should everyone else. Boeing is a national disgrace having allowed adherence to safety procedures to no longer be its top priority.
10
In the 1960s Boeing was the primary contractor for NASA’s Lunar Orbiter program. I worked on this program and it was a great success: five orbital missions for five spacecraft sent to the Moon to scout for Apollo landing sites and survey the lunar surface. (See NASA’s “Destination Moon – A History of the Lunar Orbiter Program”, NASA TM X-3487). Boeing engineers and scientists worked closely with our Lunar Obiter planning and operations teams throughout.
Today, aviation industry faces new, difficult challenges in an ever more competitive market. Cultural and management environments have changed and our government seems no longer so interested in rigorous oversight. The spirit of the Apollo program seems to have long ago left us and our society seems trapped in ever more divisive conflict.
Millions depend much more these days on safe, regular air transportation than in the days of Lunar Orbiter and Apollo. Yet, the recent crashes of the Boeing 737 Max 8s show that a pervasive negligence and fatal assumptions among Boeing management have weakened one of our country’s leading aviation pioneers. The current administration appears also to favor more deregulation and lax oversight.
It’s an old story (remember the O rings on the Space Shuttle Challenger's solid-fuel rockets). It shows again that the strength and reliability of human ingenuity is often undermined by management calculations of profit and loss. Loss of human life.
14
Boeing management wants us to believe that the non-union labor environment they moved to Charleston to exploit is better than the unionized environment they dismantled. Management will say anything to continue promoting that agenda.
18
while the US car industry had finally caught up with Quality by Design principles, it seems the US aircraft industry is going the way of General Motors in 1970.
where is the pride?
13
My father spent his entire career as a structural engineer with Lockheed, starting in the late 1930’s when it was a small company in Burbank. He hated to fly because he understood what could go wrong. He rose to become a Vice President and the chief structural engineer for commercial aircraft; I learned his planes were among the safest in the air. If he had to fly, he flew in planes he had designed or overseen. When Lockheed submitted their bid for the SST, the last plane for which my father was chief structural engineer, Lockheed lost the bid because it’s production would be considerably more expensive than that of the winning one. I am not surprised the “winning” plane is no longer in the air — not safe. He also was hired to spend half his time with the Skunk Works though none of his four children knew this while he was alive. He had a storied career and would be shaking his head in dismay at the sloppiness that has been revealed. We have only to look at the trail that companies burn in their quest for profit over safety
33
Unions help to protect workers so that they can advocate when they see practices that they know are wrong. When workers don't have those protections they are less likely to stand up to management. Yes, Boeing increased profit by moving to non-union SC, but they also leveraged a workforce that would be less likely to slow down production to maintain high standards of safety and quality control.
23
Unions, unions, unions ! We need them ! Not only in the aviation industry but throughout all service and manufacturing sectors. They protect not only their members, but the public at large. When are the American people going to understand that when profit trumps safety, ethics and shareholder greed, we have fail as a people and a nation. The employees of this plant should walk out today and not come back until they have strong union representation. I work as an adjunct at a state college in Florida. To date we have no union representation. As a result, our base salary is less than 20k per year, no benefits, no health insurance, no SS, no protection from adhoc firings or mistreatment. And we are expected to teach 'full load' schedules. Its exploitation at its worse. We need strong representation for the middle class. If we can't get it from our government, then unions need to do it for us. Union Strong ! That's how America will be great again !
31
This looks like it’s either a union organizing drive or trial lawyers softening the jury for when they try Boeing on US soil for the MAX, or both. Someone is trying to pressure Boeing. These stories don’t just pop up...they are built, massaged, and planted. I’m sure Boeing can improve (I’ve worked for airlines and aviation manufacturers...that context tells me that everyone can always improve) so I hope this helps on that front, but what’s going on here (and I’ve worked in public relations for labor and management) is a pressure campaign for some outcome, and the outcome is NOT about safety.
3
I certainly am on board with bringing to light Boeing’s missteps. This is serious. I have confidence this is a come to Jesus moment for Boeing. What I find disconcerting in this article is the lack of any statistical data. How many Boeing aircraft are delivered in perfect condition? How many flights of Boeing aircraft are problem free? While yes they should both be 100% the lack of statistical perspective is a misstep for the journalists.
3
I’ll keep these NYT articles on the Air Max and the Dreamliner handy next time I book a flight.
4
The Economist notes that two things stand out about business in America today. "One is how successful American firms are; they account for 57 of the world's 100 most valuable listed firms. The other is the bad smell hanging over a number of powerful companies." Boeing, Goldman Sachs, Facebook, Wells Fargo and Purdue's contributions to the opioid epidemic are just some of the examples that suggest "American capitalism is out of kilter." The Economist goes on to point out that the total market value of American firms involved in scandals since 2016 is $1.54 trillion, negatively affecting some 200 million consumers. "Perhaps the rash of crises will prompt corporate soul-searching," it said. "If not, public confidence in capitalism may suffer another blow."
25
After reading this very disturbing expose and the related readers' comments, let me just add this:
Current Acting Defense Secretary, Patrick M. Shanahan spent thirty years in various management positions at Boeing before entering government service.
Ponder that for a minute.
Res ipsa loquitur.
NOT my president
11
Gee, I wonder now if those vehemently opposed to labor unions can begin to realize that unions not only protect workers, but the corporations for which they work.
26
In the US, there has been an industry wide shift in corporate management. Previously, companies were run by engineers who competed on the basis of best design and product. Management is now MBA/Marketers who run companies that compete for profits.
HP was started by two engineers who designed and produced the best oscilloscopes, plotters, and printers. The HP 4050 LaserJet was a rugged, reliable workhorse, Once Marketer Carly Fiorina took over, high margin ink jet cartridges became the companies main source of income.
Same with Boeing, Previously run by engineers whose goal was to produce the best plane. Old school pilots could tell the difference. My Father was a Navy Trained (WW2, PV-1/2 patrol bombers) who later flew for United. He told me Grumman, Boeing and North American made good planes and Pratt and Whitney made good engines.
25
I was in Naval Aviation for decades. FOD is a killer and every squadron and every OMD performer FOD walk downs daily and in some cases hourly.
That Boeing is trying to hide things in North Charleston is not a surprise. They wanted cheap labor and they got it and all the sloth that goes along with untrained personnel being pushed to produce for unchained profit motives.
32
Made in America, and we wonder why manufacturing shifted to other countries. In Japan all of management involved would be disgraced and held accountable... here, business as usual.
17
do you see how it works, folks? boeing was just selected to update the military's bombing fleet for $14B of our tax dollars, regardless of its shoddy, profit-driven work on their own current fleet with 2 recent high-casualty crashes. but they are high-dollar republican campaign donors, so they get the contract. i, personally, will not fly on a boeing airliner. ever again.
18
About three years ago Al Jazeera (English) TV did a documentary on the Dreamliner production in Charleston.
Everything in this TIMES story was also presented in the t v story including most telling to me.....employees saying they would never fly on one of their own constructed Dreamliners.
In regard to the 787MAX I doubt that plane will ever be right. The design appears wrong. The new engines they hung, from my understanding, are wrong for wing dynamics. It results in the nose pitching up. Its why I guess they had to install a computer to offset it.
Boeing will not go under though maybe it should becausw it is too important to USA Government.
11
Boeing used to represent quality, safety and reliable, not no more.
The company has no integrity and has no ability to distinguish loyal employees from making boss happy employees. And the bosses are corrupted by money.
When a company puts profit ahead of quality and integrity and covering-up potential problems, the company is like a cancer patient at the terminal stage.
Top managers are the cancer at Boeing and have to be replaced for a completely new culture emphasizing integrity and quality. That is the only way out of these failures for Boeing.
9
It is amazing how many people will gleefully rush to destroy anything and everything. It's the American way -build it up and then bring it down. People/movie stars/companies/our nation.
As has been said, over and over - Careful what you wish for.
1
And you’re quick to defend the criminals at Boeing.
6
For a person who has worked in manufacturing, this is a familiar tale - shop-floor managers told accept raw materials or parts which are of border-line quality, workers and supervisors told not to insist on safety or quality standards and Quality Control told to "manage" quality checks to get the product approved. Once this culture is institutionalized in a factory, it is very difficult to correct. That this lax quality culture seems to prevail at a factory manufacturing passenger aircraft is scary.
21
The CEO has to be replaced- as well the head of Production and QC. Following these- out should go the CFO as all of these shoddy work results- speed of production requests are financial driven.
From a long term perspective- the current Senior Management team at Boeing have laid the groundwork for Airbus becoming the majority supplier of commercial aircraft in the world.
I fly numerous times per year. I have never been concerned about the aircraft manufacturer as much as I do now. Boeing is creating a fear of its planes similar to the old MD DC10.
20
Didn't this 'Charleston scandal' story originate from that well known source of unbiased reporting, Russia Today? Practically any YouTube search for 'Boeing' brings up that documentary. TBH, the 'facts' presented there have the hallmarks of the Disgruntled Ex-Employee Revenge scenario.
Sure, Boeing's new model global outsourcing strategy hasn't worked well - some of their subcontractors haven't delivered on promised quality - and one consequence is that Boeing has lost valuably experienced engineers. It also doesn't look good that some parts of the 787 are effectively built by non-US companies, including, ironically, Airbus. But, at least personally, this pro-Airbus European traveller continues to have faith in Boeing.
Dirty tricks abound in this globally important, lucrative, industry. It's certainly in the interest of the Charleston workers - and Airbus - that this 'scandal' gets maximum exposure.
3
Here’s one defending the rich corporate overlords and disregarding the people. Who’s incentivized to lie? I’d say the leaders at Boeing are far more incentivized to lie than a couple disgruntled employees (who clearly had something legitimate to be disgruntled about). Did you even read the article?
11
Anyone who travels abroad knows transportation facilities and equipment in many European and Asian countries are vastly superior to their American counterparts. With this latest news of shoddy work and compromises in Boeing aircraft we can add industrial production and quality control to the list of American shortcomings. The only saving grace is Airbus planes are also available on domestic routes in the United States.
11
Welcome to America's reckoning with its "Exceptionalism."
America formerly had great skills, the envy of the world. Those skills led to history’s greatest middle class. Integral to creating that middle class were unions, which were instrumental in improving working conditions and living standards.
Then, in the late decades of the 20th century, US factory owners relocated their plants to China. Their motives were not just to cut wages but to kill the unions.
Cheaper labor was not in itself unreasonable. What was unreasonable was those plutocrats and their Republican partners blocking other industries from replacing those jobs. They didn't just want cheap labor, they wanted to kill the unions and destroy the Middle Class, so workers would come begging to them for jobs.
They also knew they were overheating the atmosphere from unbridled fossil fuel use. Instead of acting to prevent climate change, however, they lied and denied the facts...and blocked alternative industries from moving in to save the planet.
They stalled for decades, and are still stalling, even as the world burns.
Now comes the MAGA President and a company that he promised all kinds of tax breaks.
Richie Rich, the Bad Boy President, thoroughly corrupt and self-serving, who insults poor countries as s—tholes and steals desperate parents’ children.
There’s your American Exceptionalism, circling the drain.
42
A classic case study for the Total-Quality Management movement. Reads just like the poster child for "Out of the Crisis" by W.Edwards Deming in 1982!!!
What has not changed? "The overwhelming challenge that faces the United States today (then as now) is the need to regain competitive position in international commerce. America in fact continues to to lose ground in manufacturing and service markets. The source of the problem? Low quality and high costs associated with many products and services. The way to correct it? Managers must increase the quality and productivity of people and machines that they manage. Do America's managers understand what must be done? W. E. Deming proposes that most do not."
3
As a transplant to the south, and only incidentally a former Seattle Boeing office employee, I'm not at all surprised. The south does not have a skilled workforce. Plants move here to find that they can't hire skilled workers. One example is an Oshkosh plant that is having to train people to be welders. Labor is cheap in the south, and companies are given incentives to come here. Remember the VW plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee? German manufacturers prefer a different culture between employees and managers, and urged workers to unionize. Governor Haslam and Senator Bob Corker lead a campaign to discourage it, and workers, who were already paid more than typical in TN, voted against the union. VW declined to build a second plant. Now, VW plants in TN are unionized.
26
When are Boeing executives going to jail? Answer: never, as they have such close relationships with government officials.
Should they go to jail? Answer: yes, given their putting human lives behind the profit motive.
10
When I hear about where the factory was going to be located, I wondered where the workers were going to come from.
6
I sincerely believe Boeing has gotten so arrogant with their success that they convinced themselves they could do no wrong. Their arrogance cost the lives of hundreds of innocent people. Now to find out that there’s shoddy workmanship in the SC plant is astounding. They built a plant in a State with few employee benefits and safeguards. A place not exactly renown for its high tech workers. More importantly Boeing has lost people’s confidence in an industry where trust is essential. I fly every week and I won’t fly Boeing anymore. It’s Airbus for me!
8
@Mike L
Is that right? Any company caught in an existential struggle with a competent, dangerous competitor isn't likely to run a corporate culture of 'arrogance'. It's not as if Boeing had the large commercial airline sector to themselves. Perhaps Boeing feels insulated by its enormous defence contracts - a market in which Airbus has been singularly unsuccessful in comparison.
3
Let us all gather together at the tomb of the great Milton Friedman, hold candles and sing Hallelujah!
Because if you do a RCA, you will find that a lot of branches and nodes in that Ishikawa diagram will end up pointing to that wise Lord of the Free Market par excellence. Wasn't he the one who sculpted in concrete into the brains of all his Economics and business students and almost a generation that nothing else matters except profit and Shareholders? C'mon people, have a little faith. What's a few missing and crashed airliners? Give the free market a chance to regulate itself eh? Those of you who are still very much in apoplexy, lets go visit the Business Roudtable and sit with some CEOs who will comfort us about why heeding to Friendman's dictum may be hard in the short term but will fetch us plenty in the long term. Do not despair! Our savior in the Senate Mr.Mitch and his better half, Transportation Big Boss Elaine Chao will fix everything for us! Also, be reminded that not many Americans died in these crashes, no? What's a few hundered Third World lives eh? Consider Qatar Airways in this article, see how clever they were in rejecting bad airplanes. You see there is a Caveat Emptor in operation. Free Market magic! Milton was right!!! Airlines have to be careful buyers, no? God bless Milton Friendman.
17
The issues which brought both planes down seems to be software/ sensor related.
This hit piece on Boeing is impressive and either a harbinger of things to come or just another hit piece.
6943 employees and contractors work at North Charleston according to Wikipedia.
Please assemble a force of 6943 people to do anything flawlessly and let the world know that you have vanquished the issues regarding life itself.
The people who work there are just that, people.
They have sick kids, old parents, cars with bad timing belts, leaking plumbing and on and on.
The fact is people who do anything make mistakes.
Of course management wants things done better, faster, cheaper, that's the nature of management.
Boeing aircraft are flying tanks, generally speaking.
While not without flaw they are generally good, servicable, and live long working lives.
I'm certain that all those interviewed mean with conviction what they say, and such complaints are how eventually things are done better.
Back to why this article was published, the fatal crashes of a new series of aircraft.
The wing didn't fall off, the fuselage was not compromised, a system of computer controlled analytics misinterpreted information, took control of the aircraft and hurtled it in to the earth.
The first aircraft produced the same sytemic failure the day prior and was saved by a man who simply turned the system off.
This is a software issue, not a dirty manufacturing issue.
I am put off by this writer trying to kill Boeing.
5
@Ed Sumara
I'm not sure you've convinced many readers with your 'we're not bad people, really' argument.
5
@Ed Sumara
You do not have a clue what you are talking about concerning the Max and it’s aerodynamics. There shouldn’t be a need for a computer driven stability program such as the one on the Max. It is a passenger airplane, not a fighter jet. Not to mention that program had flaws as well. Yes people make mistakes, but a culture of mistakes in a precision manufacturing company whose products fly at 35,000 feet is not acceptable
12
Unless I missed it (which is possible), the article doesn’t say where the two Boeing planes that crashed were manufactured. Were they manufactured at the South Carolina plant? I am just an ordinary layman, but I have wondered whether the crashes could have been caused by manufacturing issues, as well as design flaws. I’m not a union guy and I know that unions can be a big pain in the butt to management, but unions can also provide a check on dangerous business practices and protect not just workers, but also the purchasers of the product and, in fact, the national interest. We are about to start the most critical presidential election season since 1940. Maybe we ought to have a big debate about the roll of unions and unchecked management during this campaign.
6
@CABchi The 737 Max is manufactured in Washington State. That fact was not mentioned because it would go against the sensational nature of this article. The 787 has now been in service for eight years without any major incidents.
9
@Tim S
No major incidents? You mean like those battery FIRES? Just a minor irritation, I guess.
And, of course, those dodgy Li batteries were made by Yuasa - so not Boeing's fault, At all. No Sir. I mean, they're not even American, for Heaven's sake.
4
@nolongeradoc The battery fire issue was a serious problem that was ultimately resolved. The 787 has zero hull loss incidents and there have been zero fatalities in eight years of service.
Boeing led the way with the 787 by developing the first airliner made of composite materials. Airbus then followed with the A350. There will always be manufacturing / quality control issues with any new, groundbreaking product.
2
Keep up the good work on this NYT. Clearly even more to be learned about Boeing's shoddy practices.
7
Since the times screens these comments I question strongly the comments which get published, seems they can be slanted towards support of the article.
Just "claims", so the question is have they resulted in an accidents or significant delays flying this aircraft the 787?
If not then we should seriously question the Times motive for publication, other than click bait journalism which seems for this management the goal in many articles recently --
4
Republicans have time and time again poo-pooed regulations and oversight as unnecessary and profit killing. They praise and promote self regulation. Time and Time again, Corporate America has shunned safety in favor of profits. This is what you get.
8
At the same time, my father, an engineer at an airplane company from the 1950s to near the end of the 1980s, who knew the ropes in that he worked his way up from being a machinist, began to complain that draftsmen were becoming less careful and were making errors, and he was concerned.
We see that even more nowadays. Ever order a bookcase and find that the holes for the shelf cleats don't line up? Or get a house painted only to inspect the job and find whole swaths neither scraped nor painted at all? Or discover a loose, extra screw in the binding of a ski and realize that the mechanism isn't working precisely because the last guy who tuned it accidentally dropped the screw in and never fished it out?
Or teachers who don't correct essays and then argue that doing so adversely affects a student's pride? Certainly saves them work.
Better management would help. Doing a job carefully would also be good.
8
I am glad that here in Northern Europe there is some quality left.
6
Sure. Ya can hold management and supervision responsible. However, the workers doing the work. Do you really want to babysit adult workers being sloppy?
I have been building above ground swimming pools for most of 45 years and we do not leave one tool. One screw. One piece of garbage on the ground. And yeah, we deal with shavings from drilling metal and from self-driving screws and we pick up each piece with our fingers, so the pieces don't fall into the pool and possibly poke a hole in the liner, or end up on the lawn where some barefoot child (or adult) might pick a piece up with their toes, which probably won't happen, but we do it anyway.
And the pay, high/low or whatever and union or non-union should have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of work some one does. If you wouldn't do a good job at a dollar an hour, what makes me think you would do a better job if you were paid more (Exclamation Point. Not a question mark.)
Yeah. Pools. Not airplanes.
13
Why does corporate management continue to relocate their production facilities to states where they wouldn’t be caught dead sending their own children to the public schools?
Companies that can’t see the connection between low wages, low taxes, and low education deserve the headaches.
25
If you asked a Republican what was their favorite regulation that trump and the party have gotten rid of they would not be able to answer the question. All they know is that 'regulations are bad. Because the party constantly roars how bad regulations are for business. I wonder what the families of all those that have lost their lives on a Boeing plane think of regulations.
12
Corporate versus government (management versus engineering) measures of success: profits versus achievement. Let the buyer beware.
Labor is interested in doing a good job they can be proud of. Management wants to make good profits that make their bank accounts bigger.
5
When you hire a GE alum as CEO you have to assume profits come before quality. Six sigma coat cutting usually yields less than six sigma operating results.
12
@Jane Dingman,
Look at all the companies damaged by GE trained management. The Legendary Jack Welch destroyed GE and many other companies through his protegees but for al long time people thought he was great. As Warren Buffet pointed out "You have to wait for the tide to go out to see who is swimming naked".
3
Profits over everything else will be a continuing theme in stories about American corporations for so long as corporations owe a fiduciary duty to their shareholders. Put out a superior product at a lower profit margin and you’re setting yourself up for a shareholder suit or involvement from private equity or activist shareholders.
7
This is why I am a NYT subscriber. Outstanding reporting and writing.
17
The circumstantial evidence points to planes made in a Union shop are safer. After the union tried to get the job back for a union employee who threw a giant sheer at my fathers head and went through his hand, I have come to the conclusion that Unions are like Nuclear Power. They can be used for both good an evil. This is the example of a good use.
5
Allen, as a lifelong unionist, I agree. Many times I have disagreed with my unions defense of something really indefensible by a fellow pilot. But the union has a legal obligation to defend members or face a DFR lawsuit ( Duty of Fair Representation).
I didn't like it, but overall I'd rather be in a union, than not.
5
Prison time for the Boeing executives responsible is the only recourse.
4
The 737 Max reveals the perils of outsourcing the regulatory function to the aircraft mfr. The Dreamliner reveals the perils of weakening the labor force relative to mgt. Boeing is emerging as exhibit A in the case against unbridled capitalism.
14
One feature in the discussion I read here is a constant condemnation of MBAs and the MBA culture. Which begs the question, what went wrong with the MBA. It is probably useful to understand the origin and purpose of the MBA degree to see what has gone wrong, and why it's an issue at places like Boeing.
The MBA was originally designed for mid-career professionals moving to management. The target group for MBA students were typically engineers and other technical or financial professionals, needing formal management training to fill in gaps, and return to their industry, usually with 3-10 years of professional work experience before the MBA; because so many already had degrees, albeit in engineering, science or another subject, the degree was created as a "Masters Degree."
However, in the last 3 decades or so the MBA has changed - ask MBA students. The first thing is that many, if not most recent MBA candidates' undergraduate degree is in Business (BBA) - but since the MBA was intended for business degree ingenue, the BBA studying for an MBA is mostly taking the same or similar courses (which non-BBAs point out hurts them on the grading curve.) Second, many MBA candidates have at most 1-2 years work experience in a profession or industry, as compared to the 3-10 years typical in the past. Finally, the best and brightest go to consulting and banks, not places like Boeing. So few MBAs have the technical skills their industry management jobs require, just ambition and avarice.
15
These are the types of problems found when the walls between unethical management and non-union workers are created. Unions don't just gain better wages for employees. They help establish the contractual agreements and rules of the activities of production. Professionalism and pride in the work performed is the benefit demonstrated by Union employees. That is what creates the difference between employees who are just paid slaves and craftsmen who are proud of their skills.
17
Why would anyone trust or fly in a plane manufactured by Boeing? It appears that Airbus is the more responsible manufacturer. Non-union labor in South Carolina appears to be part of the problem.
6
It is not just manufacturing problems, it is design as well, such as duplicating, systems backups that is the standard in aircraft manufacturing. How on earth did the FAA allow Boeing to design a flight safety system, most vulnerable on take off, rely on one sensor. Our great record in aviation is in jeopardy and we have a great competitor (Air Bus) that never would let that obvious failure happen.
Beware FAA deregulation, it is our standard down to every nut and bolt and procedures in the industry. Our lives and economy rely on it. Don't mess it up, it is a proud industry.
9
Having Boeing employees as quality control inspectors rather defeats the purpose as they are disciplined for reporting errors and deficiency. The manager wants to look good and get a bonus for trouble free production quotas. Senior management gets bonuses and the shareholders get higher dividends. Quality control should be subject to independent inspection at any time without notice like the food industry. All violations found should also be examined by independent inspectors not subject to the manufacturer. Companies cannot be trusted to police themselves.
10
Airbus has Boeing so afraid that it is willing to cut corners to stay ahead in the production game?
Get the bean counters out, put those quality control people back in.
This is aviation, not Wall Street.
10
@Robert FL
I've read that Honda's decline in automobile reliability over recent yrs has been due to allocating excessive power to the bean counters vs engineers. We've seen this pattern before. Greed can consume corps, not just people.
5
Gordon Johndroe, a spokesman for Boeing, said, “We prioritize safety and quality over speed, but all three can be accomplished while still producing one of the safest airplanes flying today.” The management attitude shows a lack of concern to get to the root cause of any problems, they don't want to hear it. And the F2F, is a sham again, as there should be a written record of violations and issues, if management is serious about systemic, repeatable problems. But Gordon rings the party line, and will get promoted, and the attitude to squash the voice at the bottom will hurt the customer.
7
Shoddy works might not be about racing against Airbus as much as to cut corners for a buck
2
I think I will choose an Airbus over Boeing when I fly going forward. I now find that I check what type of plane I'll be on when I buy a ticket online.
6
Shoddy workmanship will doom the American aerospace industry the way it doomed the American auto industry.
14
As this immaculate piece of journalism clearly shows us, the single most important thing in America, the one thing which operationally trumps everything else, which essentially defines all value and worth is . . . money.
(They don't call it the Almighty Dollar for nothing.)
You can have prosperity. You can have a high-functioning society with stability, clean air, food, and water. You can have a social contract that works and provides the right kinds of sustainable incentives, one which grows skilled, thoughtful people of high character and productivity. You can have public education that locates, nourishes, and propels outward and upwards men and women who build and maintain a better world for us all.
Or you can churn out some billionaires. You can't have both. It's crystal clear which path we have chosen.
22
I know what will fix it: how about another sixteen billion dollars of Dept. of Defense contracts with little to no oversight?
Shame.
6
Leaving your lunch pail inside the plane may not cause a disaster but while we wait, why not go after the retaliation? If workers know they cannot be punished for reporting problems, the rest should take care of itself.
3
Now is the time when savvy wall streeters start shorting Boeing stock. A safety-based company has put profits first and the board sits mum.
4
Top management and the Board need to be replaced. It is quite clear Boeing has last it’s way I a business that demands attention to safety. Firing and harassing employees for doing their jobs to help insure safety is flat out unacceptable.
This kind of attitude, maximizing profit at any cost is not acceptable.
For starters, any executive compensation tied to stock price needs to be eliminated. Enough with the greed and shortcuts at the expense of the workforce and the public that buys these products.
Reading this article makes me angry and ill. Boeing has forgotten its number one product is safety of the people who fly in their planes. Shame on them.
8
My US made Cadillac, RV, and Truck are all lemons. Now the planes are Kaput.
6
Hey Boeing, how about firing the managers who berate, fire and harrass the workers when they point out debris left in the planes and other very basic safety concerns? Why not create squeaky clean planes? Hire people to clean up and contain the messes? How avout bringing in airforce grads looking for civilian jobs ... sounds like the airforce knows the importance of a spotless jet!
9
A report well worth reading!
4
I experience this type of business mentality as a surgical RN at a level 1 trauma center.
It’s all profits over pt. care.
All of us, surgeons, nurses, scrub techs, CRNAs, anesthesiologists, anesthesia techs, central supply processing techs, housekeeping staff, lab personnel, pharmacists, blood bank, we rush, and rush and rush day and night EVERY DAY to get an exhausting amount of elective surgeries done to maximize profits and pray no life or death mistakes are made.
It’s shameful!!!!
18
@Devil Moon
Just as bad - if not worse - in a socialised medicine system. In the UK's NHS (as with everything in the Soviet Union), you don't need a profit motive to shamefully, and dangerously, cut corners.
Rather than medicine here getting safer with time, the manager cadres just got better at threatening and bullying the front line staff into silence and acquiescence.
It's the reason I retired early.
1
Thank God for Airbus. Boeing is destined for the trash bin due to corporate greed and incompetence. Terrible for Boeing's workers, however, but perhaps Airbus can relocate to the U.S. Having flown in both planes and all of these problems aside, European Airbus the more comfortable and stable aircraft.
6
@Caroline
I have an mech. engineering undergrad daughter looking for internships.
Airbus has a poor reputation as an employer - engineers in silos, working the smallest details of the smallest aircraft parts to death. Ideal if you want to be employed to be bored out of your mind, I guess.
Maybe that's a manufacturing business model Boeing ought to be looking at.
@nolongeradoc
Maybe airline manufacturers should have their engineers "working the smallest details of the smallest aircraft parts to death," in contrast to Boeing, it seems, whose "manufacturing business model" doesn't seem to be working out too well....
I happen to spend part of the year in France and I have two friends who are engineers for Airbus--one a first generation immigrant, who was the first in his family to get a college decree and then an engineering decree. He and my other friend, both of whom live and work in the south of France--where the weather is arguably better than London--are happy at Airbus.
2
Boeing should outsource manufacturing to Europe or Asia.
1
@T. Rivers
They do already. Airbus controlled companies actually manufacture sections of the 787.
One of these European manufacturers already let Boeing down. A major Italian aerospace company proved much less competent at precision casting of large composite fuselage sections than they'd led Boeing to believe. Like, they couldn't do it..
"American Airlines said it conducted rigorous inspections of new planes before putting them into service. “We have confidence in the 787s we have in our fleet,” said Ross Feinstein, a spokesman for the airline."
Which translates as "we don't trust Boeing so we do an extreme inspection ourselves." The obvious question is, does AA conduct the same inspections on Airbus and Embraer aircraft, or do they have more confidence in those manufacturers quality control - and if they do the same inspections, do they find the same level or FOD?
6
@MacK. You'll be comforted to learn that Boeing recently bought Embraer
2
@ClearedtoLand
In response to the (controlling) interest Airbus purchased in Bombardier.
Boeing seem to have been slow off the mark regarding the threat posed by Commuter/Regional jets. The CRJ market is now the fastest growing in the air transport sector. Boeing doesn't have a CRJ line - hence the hasty purchase of (part of) Embraer.
Airbus also part owns of ATR - a European maker of CRJs popular with US carriers.
The N Y Times says there are "questions" as to whether Boeing compromised plane designs and function in an attempt to beat "Airbus." From here, the only folks that have questions is the media. It should be pretty obvious to anyone paying attention. The culture that led to the 737 Max. fiasco is NOT confined to the 737 Max., apparently, but is rather apparent in their other models as well.
We should not be surprised, look at the pieces of "junk" the industry is selling to the Defense Department. Even with its problems, the 737 Max is miles ahead of the F35.
1
My father's company made the F-105 in the 1950s. He took real pride in that airplane. But then, he and the other guys he worked with had come back from the Second World War and knew how important teamwork and precision were to any endeavor.
3
If true, then the Boeing BOD must fire the Boeing CEO.
Since the demise of anti-trust, the emergence of union busting and the advent of stock awards to senior executives, American manufacturing has been degraded.
When CEOs are paid 360 times the amount of factory workers, the CEOs should at least be held accountable for the performance of their companies.
So long as Congress abets the crony capitalism and turns a blind eye to the interlocked executive compensation committees that span corporate America, only the 1% aspirants will prosper. Just look at what Jack Welch did to GE while lining his pockets.
6
The BOD, remade after McD merger, inspired the profit first objective so I don’t think the BOD will help until that objective is risk, which in this long term business, may be here quicker than one might think. @TDurk
2
This article, and a range of comments describe, but do not adequately explain, a process of exploitive profiting in which relevant “data” are documented and reported; done something with (“ analyzed” or covered up) creating some type of information-knowing, which all too often neither leads to needed understanding nor necessary interventions. Repeated time and time again, with few relevant changes being done.How long does it take to check out an accusation whose consequences are human lives and limbs in an AI accessible culture? What are the human, as well as nonhuman,barriers to uncovering the covered up in a culture which enables, and even fosters, personal unaccountability? What can be expected as a realistic outcome of an article like this other than it being read, totally, or partially, and then moving on to the next article? At what age, on average, taking into consideration differential qualities of education in different parts of this diverse, divided, country, do children learn the word” whistle blower;” spelling it correctly as well as integrating it as a basic menschlich daily guiding-value? Norm? Ethic? Perhaps also with “ accountability,” and “impunity?” It’s Easter Sunday in Jerusalem. Winds are howling. Temperatures have dropped. A gray day.In what ways, if any, can what is being described lead to making a difference that is a sustainable needed difference? Not just published words! Thank you for investigating and investing efforts.More than words are needed.
1
The sad state of affairs with American companies. Greedy executives more interested in lining their pockets with short-term riches via gains in stock prices vs growing the true value of the company via quality products.
As a part of several companies over the last 30 years, I’ve witnessed the exploitation of technical and manufacturing talent. People that want to do a good job but are literally impeded by management through unrealistic expectations just to meet some financially-based timeline so a good report can be made to boost stock price.
My cynicism peaked just before I retired and despite having a fair amount of knowledge and experience I just have no desire to be frustrated anymore.
So absurd!!!
7
The long and the short of it: Unions work.
15
You really don't have to dig deep to uncover Boeing's priorities - there is only one - shareholder and C-Suite enrichment.
As we saw from the two foreign disasters, concern about the share price was front and center. The disgusting reaction and lack of a swift apology by the cowardly CEO speaks volumes.
4
You can't concentrate on your job when you are worried about paying your bills. Goes for Fast Food, Aerospace, Construction, etc...
3
As I said in previous post Boeing should be shut down, its stock plunge to zero. Such evil cannot be tolerated.
There are alternatives like airbus. The public should refuse to fly in a Boeing jet.
6
A spokesman for Boeing, Gordon Johndroe, said, “We prioritize safety and quality over speed, but all three can be accomplished..."
No, no you can't, not without a better or bigger workforce.
Or Boeing's HR in South Carolina has hired tons of bad apples, and they're all lying.
3
Perfect in the Trump era. No one can be trusted anymore.
2
South Carolina’s lousy education system and good ole boy politicians set the stage for Boeing’s disastrous experience in North Charleston.
Former governor and soon to be presidential candidate Nikki Haley, was bashing unions before, during and after union elections at Boeing, all defeated. Nikki and her legislature gave away the store with at least a billion dollars in tax incentives, and promises for upgraded education never happened.
This is typical for South Carolina, last in everything but abuse of women.
11
@Grey
Now Haley is on Boeing’s BOD. Go figure
5
Products like aircraft that involve life and death issues should be made under the supervision of people whose first love is aircraft rather than money. But a top manager who does not love money first (because the owners of the business love money first) is a traitor to capitalism.
2
I know absolutely nothing about the specifics of management at Boeing. But from the 1980s, there has been an application of classical stock-market pump-and-dump tactics of actual productive industry. Produce the appearance of great success while doing long-term damage. By the time the damage shows up, the ‘smart money’ is long gone.
A general error arising from an ideological hatred of the elements of socialism that the West took in so as to survive. See https://gwydionwilliams.com/99-problems-magazine/the-mixed-economy-worked-quite-well/.
So the Green New Deal's idea about not flying is supported by Boeing, all be it indirectly?
Now let me share with you why I don't eat meat. U.S. slaughterhouse quality control.
MAGA not.
5
Isn't this what deregulation is all about? The greedy and sleazy Self policing and self exonerating.
2
Good companies do not play the game of excuse makers with excellent lawyers; good companies admit mistakes and move on!
It really tarnishes the “Made in America” name when segments like these are uncovered. We’re still in the middle of the German Dieselgate and now this American made fiasco. What a sham! In Germany top managers had to go and are facing prison time. Im waiting.
2
@William Perrigo. Agree, and the very corrupt Sally Yates at our DoJ made sure that only foreign executives faced criminal charges.
2
The pentagon recently stopped accepting the new Boeing tanker because of FOD and poor workmanship. i'm surprised that wasn't in this story.
3
I am not sure I want to own Boeing stocks.
2
Can we now get rid of the way planes are inspected by both government and builder. Go back to the old way. Haste makes death!!
2
Another great article from the NYT thank you so much.
4
Almost weekly we get some shocking news about Boeing. What a shame. The fish rots from the head!! Hopefully Boeing’s board is working actively behind the scenes to get rid of this bunch of bozos,(no other way to say it), in management, that has been destroying this great Company, especially over the last decade. Let’s hope that the board will find ways to send Muilenburg & co. back home with a backpack full of rocks and certainly not with a golden parachute. The road to regaining credibility leads invariably through a thorough cleanup of the structure, culture and modus operandi of this company. Time will tell if the board has the necessary competence and moral resources to do what is urgently necessary.
2
Some of these comments are fantastic.
I don’t understand our current leaderships fascination with a warped conservative ethos where unions and mindful regulations are bad for America. I’m so sick of hearing “what the American People want” from a bunch of idiots.
Pride in American workmanship and craft requires a balance in skilled men and women paid an honest wage for their work, experience, knowledge and insight.
There’s no reason we can focus are energy in this country and retool skilled labor to meet the needs of an AI induced future.
With that being said, the C-suite and Boards of companies lately only seemed focused on profit and short term gain. At what cost?
I’m sure many economists will way in with modeling debates but we tend to forget human nature in the scope of all things. We’re incredibly flawed behaviorally. Otherwise the planet wouldn’t be such a mess.
Boeing needs to realize the its people are Boeing - not the leadership or the Board. They will all be dead soon for all of their fortunes that bought them really nothing of measure, save for putting people’s lives at risk for more pennies.
2
If it's Boeing, I ain't going.
2
So, we learn that mighty Bo has feet of clay. And in North Charleston them feet are bare!
This must be a reflection of making America great again, slipshod and halfassed from the top down. Poor America,
5
It's all about money.
2
Like the old expression “no respect for human life”.
2
This is economic warfare by the Chinese. Even these commenters trying to sway public opinion.
self regulating corporations, a feature of bush-obama trickledownism, is no different than how the banks were managed unti... wait, nothing has changed. As in 2008 when the bansters walked (with taxpayer-funded bonuses), the 'passengers' are the ones to die. They, we, are not a consideration - for us it will always crash down while the money flows up. i wonder how this ends?
1
The capture of the regulatory agencies like the FAA and OSHA by the companies that they are supposed to regulate has been going for decades.
Darrell Whitman who was a lawyer and investigator at the Whistleblower Protection Program at OSHA and the Department of Labor was retaliated and fired for investigating whistleblowers for example at FedEx. He was on the Daily Show and then Tom Perez fired him.
Here are some links to the corruption of these regulatory agencies.
FedEx OSHA FAA Whistleblower Mechanic Gruzalski, OSHA Investigator Whitman, The Crimes & The Trial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gPMY0wLg3I&t=140s
OSHA DOL, FAA Captured By Corps & Airlines, Trucking & OSHA With Fired OSHA Investigator Whitman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfr7rtfqeFc&t=39s
3
This would have been unbelievable without the 737 Super Max stories.
“You can have it good; you can have it fast; you can have it cheap. Pick any two.” — Red Adair
5
Bet the president is a bit nervous about flying on Air Force One now. Guess pretty soon our airliners like everything else in America will be made in China.
This should be the death knell for Boeing management before they’re the death knell for us.
2
Boeing, a blue-chip stock—
And what an embarrassment to the United States of Capitalistic Greed—
Not to mention the unconscionable disregard of human safety!
5
GE and now Boeing, win win?
4
Note to self .. avoid flying in Boeing aircraft.
2
Dear Times reporters,
I’m guessing your familiar with the recent incident involving a Boeing 737 flown by Norwegian Air having engine trouble and needing to land in Iran?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-02-23/norwegian-air-jet-stranded-in-iran-finally-arrives-home
2
Boeing is a very large organization producing a complicated product requiring high precision in design, engineering and manufacture and the failure of which can cause disastrous consequences.
The NYT has now published two alarming articles alleging serious problems at the company, essentially blaming management for sacrificing product quality and safety for increased profit.
What is the premise of the article as to labor relations? That only unionized workers do good work? That workers in Seattle are good, workers in the Carolinas can't be trusted?
The redesign of the 737 to create the Max 8 seems an example of brilliant innovation: more passengers, longer range, more fuel efficient, cost effective, a boon to commercial aviation, a boon to America, a shining example of capitalism at work. But of course only if the Max 8 is a safe reliable aircraft, as all other Boeing jets have been, sometimes only after problems have been discovered and corrective action taken.
The question is, do these articles fairly present the situation? The facts they allege are pretty much impossible to refute, they rely on isolated incidents and anecdotal accounts from disgruntled people. One cannot help but feel there are two sides to these stories, and even in cases where they are true, they may be only one bad instance in hundreds of occurrences with good outcomes. The articles sow seeds of doubt in the minds of the public. The damage they do may be irreversible.
5
Much righteous commentary about how the evil Boeing compromised safety by setting up a plant in low-union SC where it could avoid high cost labor in Seattle ("I'll never fly on a Boeing aircraft again -- it's Airbus for me"). How many are aware Airbus has set up a plant in low-union Alabama where it now assembles A321 aircraft, the main competitor to the Boeing 737, and doubtless pays its workers less than in Toulouse, its Seattle. How many are aware their "European" Mercedes or BMW may well have been assembled in low wage Alabama or SC, or their "Japanese" Toyota in low wage Kentucky, Indiana, or Texas?
You can never achieve 100% safety. We can argue about how far to go, but there always is and must be a stopping point, and no matter what that point is there will always be something to criticize, and something will eventually happen and armchair critics will say so-and-so should have done more and is only interested in profits. It's just not that simple.
5
Consider the saying: A camel is a horse designed by a committee" in considering what is the root problem of the 737 Max. The original 737 was designed and tested with a different engine configuration. The 737 Max changed to different, larger engines while more fuel efficient altered the center of gravity and handling characteristics necessitating the need for software to help fly the plane. Rube Goldberg at his finest. Someone at the top of the management chain decided that it would be cheaper to retrofit a 50-year old design rather than create a completely new one like they should have. My bet is that the higher ups with the blinders on in denial won't get it figured out until the 737 Max crashes and all lives are lost for a third time.
2
what a dopey hit piece. removing shavings is like vacuuming a rug. no one would leave that behind. in the words of the great don henley:
kick em when they're dowm
2
The moral of this story and countless other similar stories is the rich and powerful will go unpunished even for murder and/or destroying lives. It routinely happens in manufacturing, banking, and pharmaceuticals and is common enough in virtually every other industry, business, service, and institution.
Some say this is not a political story, but it truly is! There is plenty of blame to go around but it's politicians who should be held accountable for rewarding their wealthy patrons/donors by allowing them to avoid regulations, de-unionize, and providing them unfair tax breaks. Politicians are seldom punished because voters are slavish to their party and always unequivocally blame the other party. It's why many of us independent voters are frustrated most elections when we have to decide between the lesser of two bad choices.
1
Does anyone know if airline security with regulations were among the one-third of regulations that Trump cut?
3
Well, folks, it's called capitalism!
You've chosen to live in such a system, now you have to live with the system, with all it's overworked, underpaid, sleep-deprived workers, it's shoddy, cheap tools, parts and materials, it's rush-to-market approach.
The disturbing part is not what Boeing does. The disturbing part is that they are allowed to continue to do it by the FAA, the government writ large, the courts and so on. It shows that all these institutions are in bed with Big Manufacturing, that jobs and taxes are more important than lives to the government.
After the 737 MAX debacle my opinion of the FAA was already at it's lowest point ever, but this report puts it underground. You Americans KNOW that companies will put dog poop in your burgers if you let them. You KNOW that companies will make baby rompers from asbestos if you let them. This is why you HAVE regulators. But now you know that these are toothless, company compliant rubber-stampers (see also: SEC).
There are only two ways to protect your lives: leave the U.S. (Germany would welcome you) or initiate a mini-revolution to remove this kind of capitalism from your country. Teddy Roosevelt did it when he went against the robber barons! You need the right candidate to become president, and for this issue (and others) Senator Elizabeth Warren might be the right choice. If I weren't German I'd vote for her.
5
Martin. We were so very impressed with the made in Germany VW emission system quality.
3
@Martin: I'm a native-born American citizen who would emigrate to Western Europe if I could. But perhaps you're not aware that European governments are not as welcoming of us as you think. As a 71-year-old retiree with a modest income, I can't imagine any Western European country allowing me to immigrate.
This is where the profit motive falls apart. They do not have a significant incentive to fix their product.
Now, if the FAA had a two card rule like soccer, and they had one shot to fix a life threatening issue before, say, being fined an entire years profit and shareholder distribution, as well as clawing back the entire c suite and safety management salaries to minimum wage-that might do the trick.
Kill people by not doing the right thing-face personal financial ruin. Seems fair to me. You have that responsibility-you should 1)be compensated for the weight of it, 2)face the penalty when you screw up. If you saved your pennies appropriately, you’ll make it thru the year you go from $250k to $15/hr.
1
Boeing may be a good short. I bought it after the 737 max crashes thinking it was a really great company with an unanticipated setback. But, I got nervous and sold the stock as poor management decisions seemed to be the primary cause of the crashes. Now, the more I read, the more I believe they’re not the company they’d have us believe they are. These comments reinforce that notion. I’ll take a company run by engineers any day.
2
I have 40 years of manufacturing management experience I find this report to be believable and it speaks to a culture problem within Boeing. Cultures are very difficult to change but it is possible to do so with competent leadership. What Alan Mullaly did with Ford is a good example. So many good companies have gone down the tubes by putting cost reduction as their top goal. I have seen that more times than not, these efforts actually hurt the bottom line either through lost sales or expenses from the unintended consequences of their actions. Leaving tools and debris in your product is indicative of workers who don't care or want revenge on thither management and inadequate QA/QC systems. This puts Boeing in the difficult situation as the Chinese aircraft industry is evolving.
8
Boeing joins Volkswagen, bank America as companies that have placed profits over people to the degree that they should not exist. There has to be a severe penalty for their behavior.
7
Ultimately, it’s the airline flying public who are to blame. We demand cheaper flights that are on time and have no layovers. To do this airlines have to cut costs, including the cost of their fleet. Government oversight comes with a cost to our pocketbooks. If we aren’t willing to pay for that, we need to realize there are consequences.
2
Where is the Board of Directors? You need to fire the CEO and anyone who would layoff a hundred quality inspectors as a way of doing business. They should all be required to see or read All My Sons by Arthur Miller. If Boeing doesn't place quality first, it deserves to lose all of its plane orders.
6
This is so sad! Meanwhile the income inequality gap continues to grow and our work force gets dumber. We use to be the leader in the world for everything. Now we are falling by the wayside more each day.
Our government is led by a man that plays fast and loose with the truth and is a borderline criminal. The cabinet positions are held by people that know nothing about the area they are responsible for. And Congress does absolutely nothing and has no new ideas how to fix things. The Supreme Court is turning into a bunch of political hacks.
Our corporate leaders are making hundreds of millions of dollars each year but seem to show less leadership and even less subject matter knowledge. Not so smart kids are paying their way into our top universities while smart poor kids go to minimum wage jobs or if they are lucky community college.
The Roman empire fell. The French empire fell. The United Kingdom isn't so united or a kingdom anymore. It seems we too are going the way of once great nations that are not so great anymore (regardless of campaign slogans).
8
"So, what else is new?" I thought, as I finished the second paragraph. The only thing that matters at every medium to large workplace now is to get the most done as quickly as possible by the smallest workforce you can get away with having. Corporate culture is to get your "team" convinced they are doing a great job and that management really cares about their concerns and quality work but they just have to work a little harder, with less.
6
This is the case at many large companies, some of which I have experienced first hand. Upper level management is increasingly divorced from the actual production of their products and make decisions based primarily on profit and meeting schedules. When they are challenged they are more likely to retaliate against the people asking the quality questions than to address the root cause.
I think that I have a new personal rule - only fly on a Boeing plane when it is absolutely necessary and wait to see if Boeing can earn back my trust. We are not talking about a defective blender after all but something that millions of people stake their lives on every time that they board a Boeing plane.
5
Another shocking revelation! A company which puts money over safety and people. There are thousands of companies that operate exactly the same way. Whether its drugs companies responsible for the opioid crisis or landscaping companies with unprotected workers inhaling toxins it's all about the money.
We should now know we can't trust them to be nice guys. They must be scrutinized and carefully watched by the government which should be protecting us.
13
Great investigative article that leaves this passenger wondering whether to ever fly the Dreamliner on Norweighen Air over the Atlantic from Newark to Barcelona, which I do twice a year.
We scan for the best seats before booking, must we now scan for the best planes, NOT Boeing?
9
@Bocheball: I'm booked to fly on Norwegian Air in a 787 from Boston to Paris next month. I think I'm probably going to cancel the trip even though I won't be able to get my airfare refunded.
A product is only as good as its workforce and its management teams. South Carolina tax breaks and non-union labor costs plus foreign companies' desire to establish manufacturing facilities in their biggest market have brought many jobs to the state even though tourism and agriculture are still the largest part of South Carolina's economy. But quantity does not necessarily beget quality and it's not clear to me that Boeing, BMW, Volvo, Michelin are getting the benefit of top quality workers unless they import them. SC schools do not have a good reputation and SC's legislature has only just approved a raise for their historically badly underpaid teachers who were quitting in droves.
16
The current world in which we live is dominated by only 2 manufacturers of large commercial airplanes. While the article reflects allegations of certain deficiencies in Boeing’s quality control which may or may not be accurate, given the virtual binary nature of Boeing’s industry, one may be left with the impression that Airbus doesn’t suffer from the same or similar deficiencies, an impression that is likely inaccurate given both the complexity of the product and the vast number and diverse nature of employees required to produce such modern day large airplanes.
4
The appropriate Committee in the House should subpoena the entire board of directors, along with the top 25 executives, for a very public hearing.
Before those individuals go under oath, that Committee should hear testimony from the workers who were retaliated upon. Several of those workers.
As stock price crumbles, it will occur to the board members that the executive chambers need a thorough clean out, just as the newly manufactured planes do.
12
Boeing is a microcosm of corporate America. Profits over patients in the drug industry, profits over quality at Boeing, profits over food safety. One can make an argument that the current administration is an enabler of this behavior as Wall Street banks continue to rake in millions in profits while people are having trouble paying for insulin.
Boeing moved production out of Seattle for one basic reason: lower costs. That strategy is backfiring as Boeing is now in the crosshairs of a nation. Little comfort to the families who lost loved ones because of defective sensors and a rush to get the 737 Max 8 to market.
22
After reading this story I am reminded of the mantra of corporations, "trust us, we don't need government oversight". So we do and this is what we get.
17
Just yesterday, I flew 787 from Paris to Bogota - in an Air France - a 1 year old airplane.
I fly a lot and 787 has now become my favorite plane to fly.
As an engineer who spent 43 plus years in the oil patch in the ops engineering - this is a surprise - to come from Boeing.
I would think that it cannot be that hard to trace these left over parts - with today's RFD technology or even just a bar code.
Items found most left behind - Boeing can start pasting RFD chips to track them. Surely, there is enough space on a ladder. This RFD chip can have all kinds of information- most critically which work crew it belongs to.
Or for that matter, just a bar code - that can be used to trace the origin of the parts the same way.
Name and shame works most of the time - before a careless worker can be fired over repeated violations.
Ok, chewing gum - that's hard to trace - unless DNA is applied.
8
Why blame only Boeing? The collusion of airline companies with their key supplier should also be highlighted. No airline is willing to criticize Boeing publicly. They are perhaps worried about retribution from Boeing, which can choke off supply. On the flip side, airlines insist on cost-savings, which leads Boeing to make bad engineering and quality control decisions. The airlines and Boeing are hand-in-glove. We can't blame one and leave the other out for the current woes that passengers are suffering from.
7
Thanks for this informative article. You've exposed the 'innards' both literally and figuratively of Boeing's plane making operations and clearly there are some serious 'red flags' related to basic safety that need to be fixed.
Boeing's move from our Emerald State to S. Carolina to raise profits is clearly costing them in quality, safe production. Cutting quality control managers given the already serious quality issues that you've reported on sounds downright dangerous. Managers documenting safety concerns in writing should be mandatory, and COMMENDED not reprimanded.
Leaving a ladder and a string of lights in the tail of a jet? What was that person smoking? Were they sleep deprived? Door trim being put together with bubble gum? Did that person take their job seriously? Come ON Boeing. Why aren't there higher standards required? Why isn't there better training to ensure workers will 'track' all their tools? This is basic stuff that parents teach their kids: Don't leave a mess. Clean UP after yourself! Especially when that 'mess' will cause engine failures and fires that will down a plane.
Security cameras are pretty inexpensive nowadays. If I were Boeing, I'd install them to improve quality control where the plane is being built.
Boeing needs to put some of their profits into AI software design that would sound an alarm whenever a tool/debris was dropped or left behind. Simply provide the AI with a digital 'ideal construction model' for contrast.
9
@Melissa Duffy. Some good points, but you don't need AI to spot tools and shavings, just a flashlight, checklist, and a work culture where there are consequences for sloppiness. Ironically, for years firms complained that unions made it impossible to fire lousy employees and now we find that was just a fragment of the story.
1
Lifetime Seattlelite here who thinks Boeing make its own bed when it left SEATTLE to go on the cheap. Boeing union workers were best in the country because they were proud of their hometown and fair William Boeing. We take pride in what we do to keep the Boeing name one to be proud of.
18
FWIW: The 2009 book _It Looked Good on Paper: Bizarre Inventions, Design Disasters, and Engineering Follies_ (ed. Bill Fawcett) contains 60+ short, entertainingly-written chapters. Although I must have read it many times, I recently particularly noticed the chapter "Double Jeopardy," written by Teresa Patterson.
The causes of a 737 crash in 1991, and another in 1994, were considered unknown. In 1999, there was an incident in a 737 in which the pilot tried to turn the plane left, but it "pushed back" and turned right; fortunately, a crash was averted. The NTSB determined that the problem in all three incidents was with badly-designed "redundant systems in the main rudder power control unit. The very redundant systems that were supposed to prevent an accident actually caused it."
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues This Wikipedia article gives more details about the issue, and mentions that the FAA, in addition to ordering servo valve replacement within three years, "...also ordered new training protocols for pilots to handle in an unexpected movement of flight controls."
Not *exactly* the situation we've seen lately, but there are certainly echoes...
7
The Boeing saga highlights the "profits first" philosophy of private business, which is why the capitalist model does not adapt itself well to activities in which no expense should be spared to produce the highest quality product. The same problem pervades private health insurance, private prisons, etc.
11
I helped build the very first 787 out of Charleston SC and every one built until mid 2017. I was frustrated, burned out, and tired of constantly being pushed to perform miracles daily. Boeing brought in qualified workers early in the program, but they also hired local burger flippers off the streets. The qualified workers were pushed hard while the burger flippers hung out in the break rooms, surfing the internet. Management knew exactly what was going on but would never address the issues. We never seemed to have enough parts to finish jobs, or the flightline would come and rob parts from the factory. If parts or hardware were needed for one line number, they would be taken from jets down line. Imagine all this frustration and then being told that you are scheduled for mandatory OT to meet customer demands. I routinely saw quality buy off work they never even looked at. I quit on 2017 and felt a whole lot better about myself. Boeing does care about safety, but only to protect its profits.
39
So scary but unfortunately it's the same story everywhere in business today. I work in Healthcare and there are a few employees who work hard while the rest are scrolling thru their smart phones all shift instead of attending to the patients. Management doesn't want to hear it because it's a warm body to fill the slot. When you complain and bring it to their attention, you are the bad guy.
7
@MRH and this scenario is played across this great country of ours, including the Nation's Capital.
1
Remember those calls between boeing and trump.
Thats the quality running the show.
And people complain about the quality of Chinese made goods.
15
As cabin crew based with a large international airline out of LHR I fly on the Dreamliner a couple of times a month. If what I am reading is correct, it makes me sick. At the end of the day we all want to get home to our families.
16
This is not a pretty picture of management culture at Boeing in commercial aircraft manufacturing. Much of it appears credible.
15
Boeing is a taxpayer-subsidized war profiteer corporation that has an inherent lack of ethics from top to bottom.
That's one reason it rushed ahead with production of unsafe planes and covered up the safety problems.
Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon, and the many other companies that make weapons of war and death are a perfect example of the greed and immorality of raw capitalism.
Anyone who works for these companies is complicit in what the American military-industrial complex has done to bring massive suffering to innocent people worldwide.
16
It should be counter intuitive. A plane crashes - hundreds die, relatives sue Boeing loses hundreds of millions, their insurance rates go up and their sales go down.
And yet - they obviously prefer unsafe practices that eventually lead to serious problems down the line.
I guess that the individual managers simply assume that it will not happen on their watch and that in the meantime they get bonuses for supposedly meeting production goals.
Stockholders should sue the company.
In fact - there should be a parallel set of safety inspectors who report to stockholders, not managers and not the FAA.
13
Long time ago, in the late seventies early eighties the motto in Boeing was "Quality can not be controled. It has to be build in".
It seems this no longer true.
A pity.
15
The rot of short-term profit-maximization at any cost has slowly crept into the aircraft industry where quality standards have been extreme since the founding of the modern industry until wealth-seekers slowly took over the industry. For all of the six-sigma, CE and other standards that have evolved to strive for quality, there are profit-maximizers who try to make a few extra bucks by taking shortcuts. American business culture needs a rebuild. What happened to making a reasonable profit on a high quality product?
9
This is the end result stemming from a lack of oversight, regulations and enforcement. This is what happens when the government compromises with corporations who complain that regulations and oversight amount to too much red tape. This is what it looks like when the government caves to corporations adamant that safety is too honerous for conducting business.
Sacrificing safety for profit never ends well. And we now have two new tragedies to reminds us of that.
8
I only want to fly on a Union manufactured plane. Even if the ticket costs more.
13
Unfortunately, it's very difficult to ensure this every time. More transparency regarding what type of plane we are flying on, origin trace, its service history and incident reports should be available to the customer.
9
Some weeks ago, as the world grounded the first Boeing jet, it was predicted how severely the world in general would take the refusal by Boeing to hew to international standards and concerns with the same seriousness as the world beyond US borders.
Now, all I can say is that American industry and politics have made the world safe for U.S. Greatness.
How many more crashes of US planes, and collapsing trade practices, shown to be mostly hustle-not muscle-will it take for the entire country to dissolve into a puddle of greasy, warm goo-the Trumpian equivalent of "Greatness".
m braun
NYC
5
Asking "whether profits sometimes trumped safety" is easily answered.
Capitalism is based on profit, and profit always trumps everything.
9
Money has become our God. Idolatry flourishes.
2
I understand that Mr Trump is now providing - free of charge - his expertise to Boeing, helping out by sharing his overflowing wisdom.
Is there anything our Chief Engineer cannot accomplish?
He's most likely still charging too much.
6
There is an old axiom, which I love. It says that 'integrity' is what you do when no one is looking.
Now, I would not wish to impugn Boeing or any company based on one newspaper story, a biased one at that. But given the anecdotal evidence I'm hearing about the current state of American business, it would seem that we have a growing population of workers no longer concerned with the integrity of their work.
From the Operating Room of your local hospital, where surgeons have been known to text and take phone calls, even recording videos of themselves twerking and rapping while you're under the knife, to engineers and architects so bereft of knowledge and skill that they can't even design a pedestrian bridge without fear of it collapsing, it seems that the quality of 'integrity' today is at a low ebb.
Imagine the level of a mind that would litter on a freshly-built airplane, much less the integrity of an individual whom would create dangerous work scenarios that could conceivably affect the lives of thousands.
And we wonder why American companies off-shore their production to Asia?
9
I strongly believe this is a direct systemic flaw and effect of American turbo-capitalism, which places corporate profits far above damage to security, environment or health. Not that the communist system is any better, both are materialistic rather than humanistic.
14
When there are more public issues such as dangerous experiences with Boeing airplanes in commercial service, the whole Boeing business model will self destruct. Time to reintroduce quality and hire union employees . Who does the CEO of Boeing think he is kidding with repeated tv statements about Boeing putting safety first? Maybe The animals in the Central Park Zoo being promised a home in the Wild? Time as the meerkats said in the film Madagascar 1, for ‘plan B’
12
I've worked in both union and non-union plants in the chemical industry. For the most part, management gets the workers they disserve, union or non-union. In opening a new plant in South Carolina, Boeing needed to worry about transferring the safety and quality culture from Seattle to the new plant. That's a big part of my job as an expat, to bring my company's US safety culture to the new plant in China. That means that safety is the first topic every morning. As a manager, I sometimes have to push workers to spend more money on safety supplies, rather than get by with marginal equipment, not the other way around. lf Boeing's managers say "follow the safety rules," but then only talk about cost, they will get people killed. Unfortunately, it sounds like some of what made Boeing great had already been lost when management moved to Chicago.
11
The machinist and engineer culture of Boeing in Seattle is what created the company it's excellent reputation. Then it was overtaken by the corporate mentality. The irrational drive to punish union workers for wanting a larger share of the pie is the deep root of these recent deaths.
It is typical hubris of the financial elite to view workers as interchangeable and expendable. They are not.
42
Yes. Totally agree. It all dates back to the to the merger with McDonald Douglas when executives from historic Boeing started getting pushed put and replaced with numbers first people.
15
There is a declining in manufacturing capabilities in the US during the past 40 years across different industry. The defective work in Boeing may be just another example of that continuing deterioration. Apple computer has attempted in vain to produce IPhone domestically before moving offshore is another example.
11
Having worked in an aviation industry in a not so advanced country, for nearly four decades, I find the article very informative but shocking to say the least.
We used to worship Boeing for it masterly design and advanced manufacturing technology. Now after going through the write feels like the God that failed.
That the company resorted to highly questionable soul crushing tactics as an employee describes “Little incentive to do a good job resulting in low motivation among some employees, extreme resistance to change at many levels”.
Seems to me it’s not Boeing on trial but the very system of American capitalism is being exposed to naked glare of adverse publicity.
If Boeing wants to win back huge trust flying public had it ought to realise the truth in the dictum that “Money can buy you a fine dog, but only love can make him wag his tail”
22
This article reminds me of my last employer, a large chemical company. They instilled a culture similar to what this report describes when I retired. Namely--'rush rush and we will fix up the deficiencies later'. I suspect the philosophy was copied from the similar high tech work ethic. What's different is lives are directly at stake in the aircraft industry. I understand Boeing's desire to avoid unions because they frequently protect the least competent workers and only look at the seniority system. However, the allegations outlined in this article need to be investigated to the fullest by impartial outsiders. If proven true, Boeing needs to become the poster child for what happens when greed overcomes ethics.
10
This is it then - The US government will impose new and hefty tariffs on European made aeroplanes.
6
Really don’t care. I just to get into the US with my pregnant wife and 2 kids
This is because we have no strong unions to off set the rush for profits that benefit more of the wealthy through stock ownership and extraordinary high incomes of the upper echelons of these corporation. Every company that is deemed needed for the nation should be unionized and the unions should be fair and equitable institutions that gives checks and balances to these companies. Corporations should be judged on a scale of 1 to 10 by a commission set up by the government consisting of experts in economics, labor,whistleblower investigators,etc. A score of 10 is the most greedy a company can get and then they get a tax fine of fifty percent of their profits and corporate pay for high officials and board members are halved.
13
This is just another report on problems at a company that has no concerns about safety or life of its customers, that cheats and lies to increase profits--a pattern that seems to plaque American companies more than ever before, pointing to eroded work-place ethic and degraded moral standards among the owners and the management. Sad, but not surprising at all.
12
I'm sensitive to the vibration when flying. Airbus planes seem to have less vibration than Boeing. I understand Airbus uses more modern manufacturing methods. These issues with Boeing seem to confirm. Adding a larger engine on an existing fuselage and 'correcting' the results with software to save development time and money as Boeing did with the 737 shows management took shortcuts. They can not expect any better from their workers.
30
Although not explicitly stated in the article, it's just one more example of an American company that will literally go to any lengths in order to not pay a worker a decent wage. That blame is also to be shared with the local governments who routinely write blank checks for tax incentives to these global companies. While I understand it's a complicated situation, the nearly complete eradication of unions is at the heart of why wages in the US (after adjustment for inflation) haven't risen since the early 1980s. And when individual workers feel they aren't being paid properly, valued and have zero job protections....this can be the result.
If Boeing sought the best workers by paying top wages, I'm betting they wouldn't be undergoing most of these problems now. But, what are the chances that the 'bean counters' will try to reconcile their losses with what would have been higher wages?
43
@KCF: remember the idiom :If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!!
1
@KCF-Yep. A lot of money changed hands.
https://www.fitsnews.com/2019/02/26/boeing-board-nikki-haley-cashes-in
3
Our critical government agencies that we depend on—
Like the FAA and the FDA and the EPA—
MUST be well-funded, well-staffed, and FREE of industry compromise.
34
All compromised - all safeguards and protection - its the Mulvaney style. Corporate money rules. Boeing doesn’t care, banks don’t care - customers are for profits.
10
In Boeing's early days in Charleston I listened to an aquaintance tell of his anxiety over his position as a manager of a production team now that Boeing had bought out the local aeronatics co for whom he worked.
He often told of the differences in quality, the pressures placed on he and his colleagues to a) hurry production with their still in training techs and b) to certify sections as completed.
Of inspections that brought curses from the "bean counters" who flew in as visiting inspectors (FAA?) arrived and inspected sections that were subsequently covered in "tags" for errors.
The Boeing guys hated to see those stickers/tags.
He and the remaining older workforce were under a good deal of pressure to take a buy out since they made more money than the $15/hour earned by the new workforce they were training.
After a couple of years the pressure was such his health suffered and he took retirement.
He spoke of so much waste, a refusal to do adequate quality inspections, the inability to get the correct parts on time, and production shortfalls from the mistakes of the still unskilled labor under a punishing schedule.
His fears instilled in me the certainty I would never fly in those planes.
I can attest to the waste back then as well: one day my son brought home some beautiful recycled blue glass from a tour his class had of a plant that had just received tons of glass from Boeing, someone had ordered the wrong specifications for the airplane windows...
30
Please make the above a NYT recommend.
1
"All factories deal with manufacturing errors, and there is no evidence that the problems in South Carolina have led to any major safety incidents. The Dreamliner has never crashed..."
So...
6
Not yet, chafing happens over time, the trick is to avoid any debris that could cause it.
9
@Celeste They say "The Dreamliner has never crashed..."
Until it does.
1
Let's not forget that Donald Trump recently nominated Boeing senior executive Patrick Michael Shanahan to the Secretary of Defense job. Among his responsabilities at Boeing: manufacturing operations and supplier management functions. Only the best, right?
31
@Denis Pelletier-"New Pentagon chief under scrutiny over perceived Boeing bias - Concerns about Patrick Shanahan’s Boeing ties have re-emerged since President Donald Trump said he may be running the Pentagon ‘for a long time.’"
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/09/defense-patrick-shanahan-boeing-pentagon-1064203
'Am I still wearing a Boeing hat?': Trump's acting defense secretary probed over favoritism
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-defense-secretary-shanahan-163659934.html
1
The FAA should have discovered these problems long before either the whistleblowers or the New York Times did. But it seems that the agency is understaffed, overloaded, and under pressure from the aircraft industry to allow defects and potentially dangerous practices.
I would thus recommend that the Commerce Department..
1) Double or triple the FAA staff.
2) Double the salaries of the inspectors along with their training budget.
The additional funds can come from increased fines levied for violations.
30
@Mark Kinsler Good luck with that one with this administration!
1
@Mark Kinsler Reminiscent of the SEC while Madoff operated. More staff will do zip; you need to quickly fire incompetent staff, prosecute gross incompetence, and reward those performing--a tough act with every Senator and Congressperson on the take and independent law enforcement largely politicized and compromised.
1
The stories about shoddy production at the South Carolina plant have been out there for some time. It's like so much else these days - action will only be taken if the body count gets high enough to affect shareholder value.
30
Have never worked for Boeing; I'm an old licensed aircraft mechanic (piston and jet engines); have managed Midwest and New England plants for fortune 500 companies with head quarters in both South and North Carolinas. I'm not surprised of the report, shoddy work, slow workers, complaints. When visiting in the south for meetings, etc., I was always taken aback of the slow and often "non-caring" attitude of workers in both South and North Carolina. Often wondered how they ever got things done on time and on budget.
23
@fardhem1 South Carolina has many voters who prize low taxes over good schools (many retirees don't want to spend money on other kids schools), and the politicians there were some of the first to make grand givaways to corporations when they came promising jobs to their unschooled workforce. The downfall of Boeing is not surprising. As corporation boards and executive levels became filled with those who scratch each other's backs with excessive compensation packages and short-term share price concerns over responsibility to customers and employees, the rest became inevitable. Well-regulated capitalism works, why don't we try to improve regulation and the regulatory process, make it as efficient and functional as it can be? Is the world too complex for us to handle this, or are we just too complacent to do the hard work?
15
It’s too humid down there to do good work.
1
Regardless of the status of the workers, it’s the responsibility of management to adjust timetables or train workers to ensure a quality product. Any issues fall squarely on the shoulders of Managment. Period!!!! End of story!!!! BTW, I was management.
1
Moved production where no unions. They wanted to cut costs. I honestly think this would not have happened at the old Boeing’s in Seattle. The union and the workers take real pride in their work. Boeing has gone downhill since corporate moved to Chicago.
38
The CEO should just step down and be investigated and possibly charged . The shareholder should vote him out .It’s egregious behavior to continue to have profit lead over the public’s safety .
24
@J. Caps. The independent shareholder advisories like ISS, and the largest shareholders like Fidelity, Blackrock, and Vanguard likely could care less--but the NYTimes ought to ask them for the record.
Thanks to @AllCommenters and the NYTimes reporters, you have really shone some light on a terrible problem: BOEING AND THE US’ FAILURE TO ASSURE QUALITY AIRCRAFT ARE BEING DELIVERED TO AIRLINES. In Indonesia, the national carrier, Garuda Airlines delivered a stinging righteous report to Boeing, “We Have Lost All Confidence, Cancel Our Orders and Please Arrange to Refund for the One in Our Possession.”
The 2 Boeing crashes are the dead canaries in the mines for the flying industry. BMW has its world's largest plant in the South & appears to be doing OK but a car carrying 1-5 people on the ground is a world away from an aircraft at 35,000 feet carrying far over 150 people AND capable of falling and taking a skyscraper filled with people down with it.
The question that is roaring for an answer is: WILL BOEING, GOVTS AND ALL BUSINESS LEARN ANYTHING FROM THIS? Will any of the movers and shakers take a serious look at how rushes to meet quarterly financial demands really produce a good solid product and good returns over the cycles? Will they learn to listen to whistle-blowers to save long term money and even human lives? Will they invest in upgrading personnel as well as equipment. Educated, healthy workers are a great asset for any company. Sadly, the US South does not provide this.
For me, this is personal, I was a Boeing flyer, now I just stop flying.
19
We'll see what happens when Boeing starts replacing its mid-size aging 757 and 767s. American Airlines and Boeing pretty much run the U.S. commercial aviation industry. And whatever specifications American Airlines wants the others follow suit. The airline business model is greed at any and all costs.
8
"debris left on planes" - I recall, that on the first manned space mission, the Astronauts described manufacturing debris floating around inside the capsule, as they soared beyond the pull of Earth's gravity field.
Apparently, this defect is an industry standard.
10
@Peter Zenger
No, it's degree and amounts.
And risks.
2
Boeing, one of the most profitable companies in the world and forming the largest chunk of the DJIA (for now) would rather nickel and dime their non-union workers in Carolina than have better paid, more capable, union workers in Washington.
37
Boeing started going downhill when it became part of the Dow and became more interested in share price, executive bonuses than workers and quality.
3
How can consumers and travelers find out if a plane they are traveling on was manufactured in Seattle or Charleston? I'd want to know next time I step foot in one.
34
American car companies have been struggling to sell their cars abroad for years. It all started with shoddy cheap construction, produced as fast as possible and with little respect for quality and durability - all at the direction of the non-engineer bean counters in their skyscraper offices, literary with their heads in the clouds. It was: sell sell sell! in the domestic market. Now finally the US is building competitive and quality cars again yet is still having trouble selling them abroad. All due to the fact that they lost their reputation and it takes decades to earn it back again. Will Boeing go this way? I hope not.
18
@Win - Also because the dollar is too high.
1
The pressure for quarterly deadlines at the executive level, is pervasive. An effective measure? Have the bean counters in Chicago routinely and randomly be selected to take part in production test flights. Let’s see if they’re willing to look the other way when their own hides are literally at stake. Kudos to the technical staff who are righteously standing up for quality and accountability. As recent developments illustrate it, the consequences all too real, immediate, and tangible to be explained away by a talking head in a suit. Complacency and half measures have simply no place in the aviation industry.
19
The pressure is due to greed for executive bonuses, nothing else. The MAX was the bestseller, because it was too good to be true. It turned it was not true - an engineering fiasco. Any engineer who did not quit his job over this shoddy design, or over the practices reported in this article, is as culpable as their bosses.
Since the Dems abandoned the working class starting with NAFTA and China entering the WTO, manufacturing across the country has suffered immeasurably. God knows the Republicans won’t help in this area. The Dems abandoned the working class in favor of Silicon Valley and hedge funds. Now they are worried about which bathrooms people use and giving free stuff to people. No one stands up for working people in this country and the quality shows. We have to compete with those high quality products from China...
18
Standing up for the working class people means advocating for Medicare for All and free community college or vocational school education. Investing our taxes for our benefit.
16
I am distressed about this article for several reasons. It’s fair comment to explore problems with other Boeing planes after the 737 Max crashes, but I can’t tell from this report if Dreamliner construction is more or less problematic than other aircraft or manufacturers (did the reporters look into comparable issues with Airbus). More distressing is why the New York Times did not add a lengthy note reported in full by CNBC from Brad Zaback, VP and GM for Boeing’s 787 program:
He claims the newspaper declined an invitation to visit the S.C. plants and did not include full quotes from at least four airlines expressing support for the Dreamliner.
I hold the newspaper in the highest regard for its record of investigative reporting, now more than ever. But the memo from Zaback is an inexcusable omission, and it should be added prominently to this report.
13
The paper declined the invite because it was a window dressing performance sought to put on for the paper. The paper declined to run glowing quotes from several airlines because the article didn’t need them, it had a few quotes of support to contrast the serious concerns it raises. Boeing wants good PR? Clean up its act, support its workers, be honest and straightforward with the public and act with integrity. Then you’ll get all the good PR you want.
1
@Paul Mindus
They said the 737 max was okay and look how that turned out.
Quality will out.
1
The dictates of capitalism are such that profit must supercede safety by the margin of whatever the market will bear. If Boeing suffers the market's retaliation in loss of sales, that's capitalism's answer to the 500 or so who lost their lives because of the malfeasance between the FAA and Boeing. This particular brand is a variant of the crony capitalism that infects the financial sector.
FAA regulators who get personally close to their regulatees tend to diminish their zeal to go by the book.
As long as the profit motive is the heartbeat of capitalism, cosumers (of the products, not the equities) will undergo harm, suffer, or die when products fail.
5
This 10th Circuit opinion seems relevant to this discussion: https://tinyurl.com/y3m3ml46
Several commenters have mentioned "FOD". It has its own Website:
https://fodnews.com/fod-defined/
Excerpt:
FOD has been part of accidents and unscheduled maintenance reports since the earliest days of flight. Propeller nicks, tire damage, and fabric tears go way back. But the problem of foreign objects really came into focus with the introduction of the jet engine. FOD includes loose hardware, tools, parts, pavement fragments, catering supplies, building materials, rocks, sand, pieces of luggage, pens, coins, badges, hats, soda cans, paper clips, rags, trash, paperwork and even wildlife. Anything that can find its way into an aircraft engine or flight control mechanisms is a recipe for foreign object damage. And, this damage can result in anything from minor repairs to catastrophic events.
2
I hate to fly. From the virtual cavity search by the TSA to seating accommodations that resemble the "how many people can you stuff into a VW and close the windows and doors" craze of the mid '60's, the entire experience is designed to insult your sense of privacy, modesty and personal space.
In-flight meals, in the main cabin? Peanuts and stale crackers. If that.
Need to use the "facilities?" Uh, not while we're in the middle of a two-hour wait on the flight line for our plane's turn to take off.
And now, we find the aircraft we're caged in are not considered airworthy by the very men and women who built them? Oh, dear Lord (and I'm atheist), can I just get out and walk?
38
@Glen
Amen brother!
1
Some of us believe that the 21st century as a whole is an insult to one’s sense of privacy.
1
Not sure who said but “Boeing made airplanes, McDonnell Douglas makes money”. Guess who runs the show? (Despite the branding...)
7
I fly a 787 every couple of weeks. I have observed that they are not aging well. It is like you are on a 20 year old plane.
15
@Amalek I do like the 787 primarily for the lower altitude cabin pressurization, but I have noticed every touch point seems very insubstantial, as opposed to solid, durable. I ascribed this to the need to save weight wherever possible.
4
This is very surprising and concerning, I am glad I have not purchased some stock.
1
I am not sure if you have much experience in buying and selling stock. However, if you look at all of the ratings and predictions. Now is the time to buy. This article is unfairly creating panic and is very biased in it’s presentation and its supporting facts. Boeing will not only survive this crisis but do your research as they just signed a contract with the military for $14 billion.
Boeing fought the the machinist union, this is what you get.
18
While corporate negligence is damaging to our country and must be reported, we must keep things in perspective.
In 2017 we had:
0
American deaths from airline accidents
39,773
American deaths from guns
21,000,000
American health plans threatened by ACA repeal
324,000,000
Americans threatened by climate change
======================
1. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aviation-safety/2017-safest-year-on-record-for-commercial-passenger-air-travel-groups-idUSKBN1EQ17L
2. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/gun-deaths.html
3. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/26/health/obamacare-trump-health.html
4. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/us-population
8
@Victor I.
I agree on the issues about guns. But this situation with Boeing is symptomatic.
Also, only considering american lives is about as inappropriate as it gets.
8
All this mess goes back to Mcdonnell Douglass Management taking over Boeing, Their culture of bean counters and profits above good quality planes has been evident since the 787 fiasco. Boeing has to get rid of all MD managers and it's culture.
11
@Fernando Albor It's not the beancounters' fault, they are earning a living the only way they know; it's the fault of the major shareholders, who want giant returns on investment - or else. They are the ones who apply pressure on high-level executives. This is the real chain of responsibility here.
2
In healthcare, safety concerns are similarly dismissed in favor of profit.
21
An unregulated market will drive execs and corps to cut corners as a result of competition. Regulations that are properly enforced, and fear of consequences, are the counterweight against that market pressure. The coverage of the 737 Max makes it evident that the government regulators abdicated their responsibilities to Boeing. Boeing and other corporations could try to protect against short term financial pressures causing executives to take actions that threaten quality, by putting clawback provisions into compensation agreements. But will they realize that they have a sacred trust? Not to mention a longer term market valuation issue.
7
@Aero Again, government is only as good as those who run it. Time to remove the "government is the problem" crowd.
2
This isn’t just a problem in private industry.
I work for NASA in a Safety group and have had similar negative experiences after speaking out about safety issues. I still raise issues, but doing so usually means a fight with my management. It’s a horrible place to be, but it’s the career I chose. I’m close to leaving it.
Safety often is seen as an impediment to success in a project rather than an essential element of it. Maintaining integrity in my role comes at a cost to my job success and performance reviews, and brings huge stress at work. I can’t maintain it much longer.
The culture that believes rules don’t matter is pervasive in our society, but their erosion in aviation/aerospace is deeply concerning.
Safety only happens with deliberate attention focused on it: complacency eventually kills.
Some of us still care — like those mentioned in this article — but we’re being beaten down by those focused on other priorities such as costs and schedules.
43
@Elsie Holmes
Don’t give up. You are important to all of us.
9
@elsie
Dear Elsie, it's such a shame that you have to fight against your management... just to do your work !
It's a total nonsense and I feel that you are becoming exhausted by this cognitive dissonance ...
I sympathize with you but I think you should considere a company change to protect yourself and your values.
With my sympathies from France
1
Capitalism run amok. They’re burying the issues (and employees that raise the concerns) without proper recognition and resolution and now they’re getting rid of inspectors but driving output up? This isn’t going to end well.
Boeing was a proud American company at one time. It’s been sold out for unreasonable gains now. Airbus is looking like better transportation with each passing day. Will we ever learn?
17
Welcome to the corporate States of America, where regulations are destroyed by greed and employees are part of the problem.
21
I actually went to the College of Charleston know the area quite well. I left after graduation due to the dearth of job options.
The area is in dire need of business investment other than tourism and bars. I can see why the state would bend over backwards and give tax breaks out the wazoo to get them there. Beggars can't be choosers. A lot of Charleston is still controlled by a few wealthy Southern families that have the local politicians in their pocket. There's a small bubble of middle class professionals in Mt. Pleasant.
SC high schools appeared to produce a lot of students that earned straight A's and never did homework. The reality that they couldn't find skilled employees doesn't surprise me. I'm guessing even their imported tech school grads couldn't remotely compare to people that had been through 4+ year union apprenticeship programs.
26
More junk produced in Lindsey Grahamland.
29
@Ed Huh? the documented killing machine (MAX 738) is manufactured in Renton, WA. And the senators from WA, both affiliated with the Democrat party.
1
They moved to South Carolina to save a buck. Now they are paying a heavy price and deserve all the bad news and have the blood of over 300 hundred dead passengers on their hands.
26
@Doug Since when did big capital care about the body count?! They are never paying a comensurate price for the damage they inflict on society. Big tobacco simply moved on to the developing world after they lost the battle here; it's still a very large market!
I was just reading today about the two logging companies that wiped out 95% of the old-growth redwoods. Unsurprisingly, one of them is currently owned by the Koch brothers, America's 2nd wealthiest family, and the other one by Charles Hurwitz, of the Savings-and-loan-crisis fame.
5
@Lali
Thank you for sharing that important information. I wish it could be more widely publicised. Again, thank you.
1
@Doug the 787 Dreamliner is manufactured in SC whereas the 737 MAX is made in WA, with the unionized labor.
There was play about this kind of thing: All My Sons, where the owner regrets using defective parts in a plane.
No such remorse today. Today executives push safety down the list of priorities or push drugs like opioids. Thousands upon thousands get addicted. Thousands die. Executives brought down the US economy with massive fraud. They are untouched.
El Chapo is in prison. In the end he didn't know the real means to escape is to get an MBA, wear a suit, and know the right thugs.
17
I'm from Boston and have been living in Charleston for 6 years and I am not surprised. The people here are wonderful, and I also think Boeing is, despite the latest disastrous news, a company to admire. However, in my opinion, the number 1 problem in South Carolina, and Charleston especially, is the utter stupidity and good old boy mentality of the local politicians. It contaminates everything, from the terrible schools to the lack of decent infrastructure to this sort of laziness at Boeing. Fortunately there are a lot of outsiders moving to Charleston, and this year is an election year to replace the disastrous Charleston Mayor Tecklenburg and a lot of the inept City Council. I hope we'll start to see a shift towards smarter, better politicians. Until then, stories like this will continue - it's all related to the rotten core that still hangs on in Charleston politics.
31
The subtext of the article is that unionized workers (‘teammates’) are more productive, higher quality producing and less triggered to have to whistle blow or sue. Mind blowing.
12
It should be noted that the journalist did not use the term teammate but that it was used within a quotation from a Boeing manager. And the subtext of your comment clearly exposes your hate of unionized workforces.
15
@Robert I've worked in union and non-union shops, and good management can get good results in either situation, if the workforce is educated enough, and if the jobs pay well enough (that the workers can have a decent life). Unions also can be good for both employees and companies or they can be completely parasitic. It all boils down to good leadership, a common level of basic education, respect, and a good legal system. We need to vote for politicians who are willing to take risks to find ways to get both the corporate world and government to play their roles better. This is the only path to improving the U.S.
3
@Robert I agree. Desperate, starving workers are considerable more productive, and the quailty of their work is impeccable.
1
If it's a Boeing, I'm not flying.
14
I'm so glad I have ended my flying travels. I will never fly on a Boeing again. Greed. Plain and simple.
9
I understand what happened with the 737 max aircraft, the control flaw and how pilots were not trained in it real time... huge lapse, many precious lives lost.
I have known many Boeing employees (in Seattle and Everette) and all of them complained of NC site being not up-to par.
But this...
I’ve flown 787 so many times. If this is correct, then how come there have not been a major disaster.... or it is just waiting to happen??
Aerospace industry simply doesn’t work this way, one small error and people die!
Lots of people, not few.
7
If you are paying your CEO $30,000,000. a year, you have to cut corners somewhere.
51
Thank you. Most important comment of them all.
1
Kevin McAllister, thanks for the corporate doublespeak. You should be aware that when a corporate hack spews nonsense like that, the immediate inclination is to disbelieve him. Fire whatever firm is providing you with media training.
And nice try, pinning responsibility on the workers, in your corporate backhanded way. When problems like this emerge, it is invariably because of systemic management errors. Why don't you say, "I have full faith in management and our risk management strategies"? Because you know your process and risk management are deficient.
10
If it's Boeing, I'm not going.
11
Why non-union workers would not care to do the job right as much as union workers? Because they are not vested with the company. They have no retirement plan nor job protection. You get what you pay for,
32
Thanks for this report!
Any complex process is replete with errors minor and major. Any responsible company knows this, has multiple checks in place, rewards rather than punishes those who document problems, and promotes those who come up with solutions.
For me, key parts of this reportage suggest that the once proud Boeing is not longer a responsible company.
" . . .several former employees said high-level managers pushed internal quality inspectors to stop recording defects . . . superiors penalized her in performance reviews and berated her on the factory floor after she flagged wire bundles rife with metal shavings and defective metal parts that had been installed on planes."
6
this is both depressing and terrifying to anyone who flies regularly. It did cross my mind when Boeing moved the new plant to South Carolina that there could be a difference in skilled labor available, but I never imagined union breaking was part of the picture. What has the country come too. Watch "All my sons" by Arthur Miller; it's all there.
10
@MN -- Union breaking was the main point of it.
5
Remind me again how unbridled capitalism and deregulation is all we need?
22
Less skilled workers will make more mistakes. That is what it means to be less skilled.
Less skilled workers require more quality control supervision, because they make more mistakes.
That supervision will find problems, and fixing the will cause delays.
Less skilled labor is "cheaper" per hour, but not as much cheaper after you hire the extra supervisors and pay for the extra delays and re-do.
Boeing went to the non-union area to get it cheaper, and now they are cutting corners to keep it cheaper. They say all the right things about quality, but the very existence of the plant there is because that is not true.
Boeing also moved management away from the production, half a continent away. That has an impact. What they don't see, they don't know. What they see is money, not planes.
22
All the more reason why I invest my money, take my time, and ride Amtrak unless I cannot do it due to short-notice, long-distance travel. I reap a big bonus from the welcoming, accommodating service of Amtrak personnel, unlike the airlines who treat their passengers as though they are so many cattle to be prodded into the most seats they can cram into their planes, and then add injury to insult by surcharging for every conceivable "convenience".
This problem by no means is confined to the aerospace industry; I've experienced it in the oil industry, where the geoscientists and engineers who built that business long since have been replaced by MBA's and CPA's. How do you like the way health care has been delivered for the past ten years, where those same business school graduates have usurped the management of your health care from the medical professionals who used to administer it?
My fellow Americans, you conned yourselves if you allowed Donald Trump and the Republicans to con you and shirk their oaths of office by fostering unregulated, free-wheeling capitalism on us. This has nothing to do with pure socialism and its inherent lack of incentives. It has everything to do with striking an effective balance between reasonable social accountability and efficient control of the inbred excesses that inevitably arise from purely profit-driven motives.
If we do no better than generate Twitterized government and texted communications, we deserve nothing better than what we have.
20
Well! That certainly answers MY question.
Boeing isn't worth $360 a share, not with manufacturing problems on this scale.
The opening of the markets Monday should see some justice done.
18
It's almost as if corporate welfare and unregulated capitalism has resulted in self destructive behaviors in search of short term profit.
11
If a plane should one day go down because of debris left behind during the manufacturing process or stray metal shavings in the vicinity of electrical wiring, imagine how hard it would be to figure out the cause. Airlines that continue to accept planes from Boeing with these issues are just as culpable as Boeing for the problems. They continue taking delivery on these planes in order to maintain their flight schedules while paying public lip service to their confidence in the planes. The flying public and the flight crews are the ones being put in jeopardy. Anyone who thinks that that is an exaggeration only need only consider the two 737 Max crashes and the 300+ lives lost.
12
I used to work for McDonnell Aircraft Company in manufacturing support, long before it became part of Boeing. I spent time on the assembly line. My job included suggesting changes in design or production. Where quality was at issue, I was unsuccessful because quality was foremost. We were indoctrinated with quality awareness programs such as “Zero Defects.” At over Mach 1, we well understood “For the want of a nail… ”What has happened?
14
Those of you that think Airbus planes are better, when I worked for the airlines we mechanics called them Scarebuses. When I first worked on the A300-600 I was not impressed with the systems design nor the quality of the workmanship. I was up close and personal with these aircraft, I repaired them. I saw much more than the cockpit and cabin.
As far as Boeing buying Douglas, the joke is Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing’s money. The Douglas management were the ones that took the helm.
We had another name for the DC-10; Crowdkiller. MD-11 we called the Scud after the missile that you never knew where it would land and how many pieces it would be in.
But remember this, the #1 reason for airline crashes is the people in the cockpit, not the airplane.
4
@Paulie Airbus has come a long way since the A300 and the DC10 and MD11 are from a different era as well.
Times change.
5
Fox guards hen house. Hens rebel.
11
Dear JSK,
After 40 years in the airline industry and flying every Boeing and MD jetliner ever produced, l too was hired at Boeing to teach their future 787 customer pilots.
In contrast to my two former visits as a customer pilot to Seattle, in the late 60’s and 70’s, l found the place in total shambles!
Incompetence, arrogance and cavalier attitude of the upper management towards safety was unbelievable. Highly experienced retired airline training Captains from major airlines like United and US Air were targeted. We had already lost our pensions to other greedy CEOs. But ironically we were hired mainly to destroy the unionized pilots and instructor work force in Seattle!
We watched the vicious attacks from the boys in Chicago on their long time highly experienced, but union labor in the Pacific NW.
Some of us had predicted the current chaos at Boeing, during the early production of the Dreamliner.
It is no surprise to most of us who saw the greed taking over safety at Boeing!
54
The system is broken, top management is responsible for the system. Inspection won't fix it. this is not a new concept:
'Inspection does not improve the quality, nor guarantee quality. Inspection is too late. The quality, good or bad, is already in the product. As Harold F. Dodge said, “You can not inspect quality into a product.”'
https://blog.deming.org/2012/11/inspection-is-too-late-the-quality-good-or-bad-is-already-in-the-product/
15
A competent organization would process inspection findings and use the data to drive changes in the process that generate the defects. Boeing is subverting good practice for profit; anyone truly surprised?
1
Soon our flight safety will match our good friend, Russia.
11
Time to get a motorhome for safe surface travelling
5
Not enough attention has been given to McNerny's tenure at Boeing, which included the 737Max and early Charleston plant. Like the other destructive spawn of GE's Jack "Neutron Jack" Welch, he helped destroy Boeing's culture, just as he almost ran 3M into the ground in search of short term profit. Meanwhile, Jeff Immelt was busy eviscerating GE, while Nardelli took a chain saw to Home Depot's reputation (leaving with 200 million). More needs to be written on the business world's toxic obsession with Welch and the enormous price the country has paid.
21
Excellent reporting. However, as a flying customer who has been around the world and back on the 787 multiple times scary to read. I worry this iconic brand has a culture problem throughout organization and its effects are beginning to be seen on its products. I wrote in CustomerThink that a big problem is Boeing has been so focused on being a Global B2B Aerospace Brand, they forgot about what makes a B2C brand great. One of those factors is not involving the end-customer. It has been very evident post the unfortunate 737 MAX crashes and the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System updates. Usually the airlines take the brunt, but Boeing can no longer behave this way. http://bit.ly/BW_CustomerThink_Boeing737MAX
6
Freedom in America: freedom to die in a plane crash or from contaminated food, or from a chemical explosion, or to be shot to death by someone who is angry with the world, all so some wealthy plutocrats can grab even more money than they already have.
26
Boeing is eliminating about 100 quality control positions? You have got to be kidding me.
33
Those pesky inspectors cost a lot of salary money and continue to find the egregious and the subtle defects and report them. Boeing seems to be saying if they reduce the inspection staff, they solve the problems, after all - reports drop. These executives are out of control, making a mad dash for the money and risking the legacy of the brand in doing so. A sad state of affairs.
1
Madness. Taking one of the jewels of American industry and tossing it down the drain. Boeing executives should be held responsible for those who died in the two crashes. They should be in prison. Of course they won’t be, any more than bank presidents were when they almost flushed the world economy. The oligarchs have won. Everybody else has lost.
21
Nothing matters to the folks in charge except share value. I asked for George C. Marshall and I got Ed Nixon.
3
Maximize profit, cheapest labor, speed over quality. No pesky regulations.
GOP's dreams come true.
When do our brahmins admit this isn't the way?
10
Boeing shut down its commercial plant in Wichita, KS in 2005, and its military plant in 2013, because “costs were too high”. They opened the SC plant around the same time. Boeing had been the largest private employer in Kansas, and had been operating in Wichita since 1927. They had a skilled, multi-generational workforce. Guess you get what you pay for.
27
@Steve
Thanks for mentioning the local skilled workforce in Wichita. I have always wondered why Textron built its Scorpion jet there:
https://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news/2018/07/30/textron-divisions-pair-scorpion-jet-with-drone.html
4
'“Boeing South Carolina teammates are producing the highest levels of quality in our history,” Kevin McAllister, Boeing’s head of commercial airplanes, said'
'highest levels' seems unusual when used with 'quality'
seems to me it's more usually associated with 'risk'
as in 'highest levels of risk' ...
5
You get what you pay for, bottom line. By moving some production to save money by using non union workers, they potentially have cost themselves millions or billions because of substandard work performed by the people they hired. Shame on Boeing, they should have known better. Profits over people is a huge problem in this country that needs to be addressed.
8
an american company putting profits above safety?!
well, knock me over with a feather.
lawsuits are probably included in the budget as the price for doing bidness.
11
How would one, anyone feel about Boeing writing the software to control our land based strategic missile launch sequence and verification in all those silos out west?
5
Outsourced to non-union labor with no experience building airliners in South Carolina. And then Boeing had quality control problems.
Well, no problem as long as they are covered up. And think of the profits!
7
Boeing has much blood on its hands, as does the F.A.A.
This episode is another stark reminder of the shortcomings of pure capitalism. Airlines shouldn’t be permitted largely to self-regulate.
16
I don't fly often, and when I do, it's abroad.
Boeing's shift of focus from engineering excellence to the bottom line disgusts me. There's only one way to respond, and that's with my wallet. I've never cared about the brand of plane I've flown in before, but from now on, it's Airbus.
8
It’s not so easy to discern prior to booking.
1
The NYT has been so on it lately! Great job!
21
I observe that when management becomes separate from manufacturing people and the manufacturing plant, production problems become easier to ignore. Moving the plant to another state and getting rid of the union makes worker complaints go away. Taking advantage of big tax incentives in a bidding war for the plant is just icing on the cake. Refer to Amazon for a recent example.
As a new employee in a 1970's plant I noticed a man in a suit was looking over my shoulder watching me work. He asked a few detailed questions about the process. Very good questions that demonstrated his understanding and put me on notice that he knew more about it as I knew. He nodded, said thanked me, and moved on. After he was out of site a fellow employee advised me he was the CEO. I can't imagine an MBA with a finance background asking questions of similar intelligence or interest. That's why China has become manufacturing heaven for US corporate management.
11
Would it be too much for Boeing to adopt the motto, Safety Before Profits?
6
"Workers at a 787 Dreamliner plant in South Carolina have complained of defective manufacturing, debris left on planes and pressure to not report violations."
Isn't that why Boeing setup plant there? A pliable work force without unions to protect a whistle blower or demand higher wages, not to mention a corporate friendly state government that will fight to keep it that way.
22
A huge issue is that the FAA lacks the experienced inspection workforce, expertise or budget to certify an aircraft’s airworthiness. They rely a lot on manufacturers’ and carriers’ self-certification and paperwork and assurance, and just check to make sure that the paperwork is properly completed.
10
@Stephen Roberts..Exactly, deregulation.
1
Easy solution for flyers. Put a small, but easily recognized Charleston-built symbol on the plane. Perhaps the Confederate battle flag. And of course, high up on the tail, for post impact visibility. Might even boost morale at the plant, giving an image of competition with Seattle.
14
Savage capitalism at its best. This is not just true of Boeing, but the nation's railroads, water supply, and soon our meat and poultry supply.
I have given up hope that my fellow citizens will ever understand the importance of organized labor, and independent and competent federal regulators who are duty-bound to oversee such industries on behalf of the American People. This is a very disappointing story about a great American company. Thank you for your reporting it to the readership.
24
Shutting out the unions was Boeing's fatal mistake. Union members built safe, reliable planes.
25
NYT's team deserves a pat on the back to bring out such a
vivid report describes the 'Compromise on Safety in the production shop floor' of Boeing plant. The entangled metal shavings with other revolving parts of the plane is a good source of ignition and the fine dust of metal debris stuck on the crevices of the moving parts are a source of incendiary to an invisible dust explosion when they absorb the heat.
Why don't Boeing think of handing over QA to a third party, an agency in Japan and also HSE to an agency in UK to get
rid of complacency or compromise on QA & Safety' before a flight put into service?
7
The MBA culture that dominates American corporations has placed profits above the quality of whatever these corporations produce or the services they provide. Boeing is no exception.
Allowing Boeing to regulate itself under these circumstances has failed us. It's time to reverse decades of irresponsible
deregulation of the aerospace and airline industry.
18
All of these comments and accusations are worrisome to this non-Boeing employee who is a very frequent flier. How can one tell which 787s are made in Everett and which in Charleston? Is it by serial number? On the other hand, in Boeing's defense, to what extent are these comments designed to denigrate the company for opening up in a right-to-work (i.e., non-union) state?
4
@hhgarry
right to work is a euphemism for fire at will.
2
Putting the bean counters in charge was an epic mistake.
12
Industry as a whole hires cheaper foreign labor, even when it comes to engineers. As long as the bottom line, maximum profits, are all that matters to corporations, we will continue our decline to the bottom. Is government regulation the only answer? No, I think an overall limit on profit-making, say 18% is a law we must have. That's enough for anyone. That will allow prices to be lowered, labor paid fairly. I just met someone today who works from 9-9 at a Mattress Firm store, who either gets $12 an hour, or his commissions, but never both. Now since when does a salesman not get a base pay PLUS commissions? And while Target increases its base pay, it eliminates cashier jobs, trying to force customers to only use self-checkout, to actually do the cashier's job, looking up prices and all. This corporate conduct is outrageous. They have no moral or ethical sense. It has to change, and fast.
6
Most important plane in a generation? No. The Boeing 777 was introduced in 1995. It was the last new aircraft design Boeing ever made that was actually good and solid. Then the merger with McDonnell Douglas happened and Boeing went down the drain. First with the 787, and then the 737 Max. Who is going to trust Boeing from now on?
13
Terrifying for the ordinary passenger. Are we now supposed to try to find out where the airplane was made when making a reservation? Or only fly on Airbuses?
20
It appeared during the recent 737 issue the CEO did not seem to be interested until the stock price began to dip. I understand his function is to maximize the stock price, I wonder whose function it is to see that planes are built correctly. If they aren't, the CEO will still receive plenty of money while apologizing for needless deaths.
15
Regarding the 737 tragedies, I keep reading things like the one I read in this article -- "Boeing is now facing questions about whether the race to get the Max done, and catch up to its rival Airbus, led it to miss safety risks in the design, like an anti-stall system that played a role in both crashes." Isn't the real problem the decision to stick new, larger engines on an older plane, which in turn has the effect of making it want fly up and up and into a stall? Put another way, the 737 Max is an airplane that naturally wants to crash, right? However good the anti-stall software gets, it seems silly to ignore the physics of the problem. If problem gets declared fixed by changes to the anti-stall system, won't we'll still be left with an airplane that naturally wants to crash--and only doesn't crash because of some software. I know it's expensive to go back to the drawing board, but the decision makers made a horrible, horrible mistake--which has killed several hundred people. I for one certainly am not going fly American Airlines anymore (which is where I happen to have the most miles), until they abandon the 737 and replace it with a plane whose physics actually want it to fly in a straight line.
24
@robbie You're way too intelligent and rational. Don't ever go into American business. If you ever expressed this (precisely correct) synopsis of the 737MAX8 debacle in an MBA class presentation, they'd throw you out of school. AND, this sort of thinking doesn't comport with the mindset of the American 1%. What Boeing is doing is how the 1% got to be the 1%.
7
I imagine Joe Sutter would be deeply saddened today to see what Boeing has turned into. Mr. Sutter pushed for multiple redundancies on the 747. How did we go from multiple redundancies to a single point of failure -- let's use data from one angle of attack sensor instead of two -- undoubtedly a decision made because it is cheaper and easier to implement. Well, how much cheaper was it really in light of the past 8 months?
Boeing management should consider this article a warning about your practices and priorities. I certainly do not want to read about passengers and crew that perished on a 787, but should it ever happen, we now know the question of where the 787 was built will be asked. Sure, it is easy to say that these claims are made by disgruntled employees, but how do you explain away Qatar or American Airline finding?
The most appalling fact out of this entire article, I guess saving the best for last, is not only the increase in 787 production from 12 to 14, but the elimination of about 100 quality control position in North Charleston - this simply defies any logic. Rather than address the problem, silence it?
26
Not to detract from this particular issue with Boeing, but anyone who has had remodeling done in their home knows to keep an eye on workers because they often sweep debris and trash even their food wrappers behind walls or under floors. I have never understood this and have always insisted that they shop vac before they seal things up, and I’ve been met with resistance.
I don’t understand the thinking behind this pervasive practice.
The laziness can lead to health and safety issues in your home as well.
Can some contractor out there please explain the psychology behind this?
Does no one take pride in their work or their craft anymore in this country?
27
@Issy I've often witnessed the same thing and also wondered how cleaning up after oneself became something so many people feel is outside their responsibility. The same mentality that produces this produces the dropping of cigarettes and coffee cups out their car windows at traffic lights. Many people simply feel no responsibility to others or to leave the world better than they found it. To my mind, it comes from the top--at the family and the corporate level. If the leadership of a family or an institution embodies examples of how we are responsible and dependent on each other, you get good results, if there is no thoughtful, intelligent care for others, you get what we keep witnessing in stories like Boeing's self-inflicted failures.
2
Seattle Boeing’s employees have always been proud of their planes. Seattle has been proud of being Jet City and Boeing. There was a time when pilots said “If it ain’t Boeing I ain’t going.” Greed and shoddy piss poor management move corporate away from the actual company and away from proud responsible union shops. Even Seattleites will stop flying Boeing. So sad.
1
This is not so in the supposedly lazy supposedly socialist Europe. Good craftsmen there.
A friend (deceased) who piloted B-17s and B-29s during WWII praised Boeing's products for "practically flying themselves." (For comparison, he'd also flown B-24s, not made by Boeing.)
It's sad if a company that played such an important role in our winning that war is now so obsessed by the bottom line.
16
Interesting, much deserved publicity has been given to Boeing's issues with its commercial jets flying the public but the company has also experienced serious post production flight safety problems with the new KC 46 Pegasus refueling tankers it's been delivering to the U.S. Air Force as well. Quality control has been called into question as factory tools and loose spare parts have been found inside delivered aircraft by Air Force inspectors.
14
Get this: the FAA sent a letter to the Southwest Airlines Mechanic’s Union stating they were causing a safety of flight issue by the mechanics working to the letter of the regulations because of a contract problem with Southwest. I would like to know how grounding a airplane over a safety issue is a airworthiness issue.
It is obvious that the FAA is in Southwest’s pocket. They also let Southwest defer inspections of the 737 CFM engine fan blades as recommended by CFM. The same engines that the fan blades failed, killing a passenger in flight.
Also note that the airlines all now ship their aircraft overseas for their heavy inspections, where it is cheaper and there is no FAA oversight.
The bean counters don’t care if you live or die, they only care about the bottom line.
15
The workers on the line are are the first line of safety in the air. Without a strong union, a real union- not a lapdog to management- to back them up when they see corners cut or excessive pressure to just get the product out the door, they are powerless to protect the flying public from the greed of rapacious management who can see nothing besides dollars in their wallets.
22
This is not a Boeing exclusive problem. Modern management philosophies have applied a one size fits all solution to American industry; treating the manufacturing industry as if its needs are interchangeable with fast food and retail.
Truth be told, cost of labor is a small fraction of manufacturing expenses in a well streamlined assembly, automation often pays off as a quality improvement tool, it almost never saves on labor. My company could double our labor rates and it would marginally impact the cost of our products. You wouldn't think this was the case, given how the news and many CEOs talk about keeping wages low as a cost cutting tool. As a nation we have been ignoring how costly it is to have an unmotivated workforce that has no incentive to produce parts or services of quality.
23
Good old American capitalism. Profits over quality. Profits over people, even if some die.
With regard to the plane crashes, would any car manufacturer sell a car without brakes?
Gonna fly AirBus, if I can.
20
Tires and brakes extra
1
This article and the comments make my hair curl. As they say, "What goes up comes down " Relentless vigilance is needed for excellence as well as freedom.
8
No domestic competition. Profit over safety. Safety systems without redundancy. Non union employees. Playing catch up with Airbus. This is what happens when profits trump everything else. Boeing used to make absolutely phenomenal aircraft like the infamous B-17 Bomber of WWII. Now I won’t even fly on one.
12
What do you mean “infamous” B-17? Is it “infamous” because it saved the lives of countless American flyers because of its toughness, durability and reliability under enemy fire?
Were the allied Air Forces too mean to the people of the country that invented carpet bombing and needlessly destroyed thousands of villages and hundreds of cities all over Europe and Soviet Asia, Such as Guernica, Rotterdam, Warsaw, London, Coventry, Belgrade, Brest, Minsk etc?
Back in the 50s Boeing was famous for its quality. Three of every control line, of including one strictly manual linkage.
Then the top management decided they should go to Chicago, central to all the plants they were building. And too far away from any to have that XO or SGM type who somehow pops up everywhere when he is not supposed to be there and sees all. And who listens to the machinists and fasteners and asks good questions.
Not anymore. Finance guys want their quick bonuses and cut corners. They are long gone when the great Boeing reputation for quality is gone.
France, the last time I asked, by mandate allows a glass of eminent at lunch for everyone. That is a killer for machinists who have to do the ultra fine precision micrometer machining. And now people die.
And now, why build three fold control features when they are rarely needed. Besides, the competition does not ‘waste’ money on extravagant safety.
And that is why Seattle machinists only fly on certain planes.
4
Another investigative piece that matches the facts of this article.
Broken Dreams
https://youtu.be/rvkEpstd9os
“This is a major project by the Al Jazeera Investigative Unit focusing on the 787 “Dreamliner”, the flagship passenger jet of the Boeing Company.
Our journalism reveals the deeply-held safety concerns of current and former Boeing engineers, who in some cases fear to fly on the 787, the plane they build.
We uncover allegations of on-the-job drug use, quality control problems and poor workmanship.”
We explore the roots of the battery problems that led to the plane’s grounding due to safety concerns for three months from January 2013.”
10
Pretty sure this one will get lost in the shuffle, but the Boeing CEO proudly appointed some outsiders to this magic new committee . . . they will examine the company's processes, new programs, policies and procedures for designing and manufacturing---so far, so good!
1. An Admiral with a wealth of background, experience, expertise, integrity, etc. A fine choice . . . but keep reading.
2. Somebody from Amgen. A biopharma guy to examine commercial airplanes?
3. CEO of Duke Energy. Ohhhhhhh NOOOOOOOO.
4. A former Allstate CEO. ALLSTATE???
8
No surprise here. Boeing like all bloated multibillion dollar companies operate like this.
After the fully 2 preventable recent crashes, the Boeing fan club here on NYT comments declared it must of been the pilots.
Yeah no, just another executive board room that thinks only in profit, lives are expendable and history is proof of it.
11
If they can’t get their workers to do something as simple as stop leaving tools on completed planes, why should we believe the planes have been assembled properly? It’s al of a piece.
16
Who needs regulator's or professional oversight? Not Republican's. Let's just let all these Capitalist's police themselves. What could possibly go wrong..........for them! Too bad some folks died horrific when our plane crashed. We'll make more.
5
Same thing happened to American car manufacturers in the ‘70s through 2000.
30 years producing junk.
11
Perhaps we should just make drugs here in the US. Leave serious manufacturing to other countries where people get paid well and thus perform well.
5
There was a documentary about this several years ago, but everyone ignored it.
9
The thing that all these overpaid MBA types who have taken over almost every company in America don't seem to get is that their greed and dishonesty over the past couple of decades have created a huge and growing audience of cynics in America and around the world who by this point don't believe a word they say.
17
I’ve flown with United Airlines, American, and Delta for much of my 69 years. But over the past ten years my wife and I have flown
almost exclusively with JetBlue on their Airbus jets. We will NEVER fly on a Boeing MAX-anything or Nightmareliner 787. What a shame that Boeing capitulated to the stock market rather than the safety of those who work on or travel on their defective junk.
16
No surprise here. Boeing like all bloated multibillion dollar companies operate like this.
After the fully 2 preventable recent crashes, the Boeing fan club here on NYT comments declared it must of been the pilots.
Yeah no, just another executive board room that thinks only in profit, lives are expendable and history is proof of it.
2
Big surprise, take the work from a proven workforce in Washington and send to South Carolina where there's nothing but pig & chicken farms and moonshine stills. What could possibly go wrong?
20
Boeing is the fifth largest defense contractor in the world. Maybe their ethos of creating corpses is spilling over into their passenger fleet.
12
"Boeing had trouble finding qualified workers for its North Charleston plant," but, hey, it was cheaper labor, so the lower educational level and professional training of the available South Carolina work force was a matter of no consequence to Boeing. Boeing also has benefited from South Carolina's hostility towards unionized labor, which in the case of the North Charleston plant translates into more profits, not to mention tax-payer paid incentives to draw Boeing--and many other manufacturers--to the South with its pre-New Deal ideological prejudices.
Nothing about this situation bodes well for airlines safety. Boeing no longer appears to be the company it once was.
16
Another Eclipse Jet story: I was working there as a contractor when the FAA MIDO office from the LA region arrived to inspect them for a production certificate. The manufacturer needs to prove they can duplicate the same quality into each aircraft, otherwise each and every one requires FAA inspection. The feds went nuts when Eclipse was no where near ready for the inspection and they failed it. Result, another MIDO office from the D.C. region came in the following week and rubber stamped the inspection. Big Microsoft money talks and gets results in Washington.
3
Based on what we know so far, which is plenty, it's incredible that the company is still limping along with the same lineup of top executives and board members. This situation calls for a shareholders' revolt.
15
So Boeing chooses a location because it's non-union and tells staff to avoid bringing in union employees from Everett -all of course for greater profit. Or rather - greater *short-term* profit. This is the only criterion these days.
Well, how's that going for you, Boeing? Your reputation is your single most important asset, and you've done your best to ruin it.
31
Who manufactures aircraft besides Boeing? After reading this I want to fly on aircraft where the safety concerns are taken seriously. When I looked up the alternatives I could not find much. I hope someone takes on the challenge and develops an alternative company that values safety. I would pay more to travel on a better plane.
5
At least look into the quality of the S Carolina workforce. They’re paid less than their union counterparts in my state. Might their work reflect that? How hard is it to vacuum up debris?
9
They may be all fine workers, but if they don't have the same kind of safety culture in manufacturing they'll be less likely to do all the fine detail things that are required. It was a big mistake to not bring people from Everett - so they essentially started an aircraft line with all inexperienced people. They should have either brought people from Everett to get the line going and gradually swapped them out, or sent people from SC to spend time on the Everett line to learn their jobs where they'd be surrounded by experienced people to impart all the unwritten knowledge.
5
The problem is NOT that cleaning up debris is hard. I’m sure none of the workforce in South Carolina fells that it’s hard.
The problem is that they are rushed and overtaxed by impossible production deadlines, so they don’t have enough time to complete their duties properly .
Naturally, the first thing to go is cleaning up.
8
This story is a revelation to me because I always held Boeing in very high esteem.
It seems the culture in upper management now is to prioritize profits over safety. Cut out highly skilled union employees, hide defects and rush products to market. When building aircraft, safety is the most important concern because a malfunction could kill hundreds of people.
A change of management is definitely in order. Perhaps the downward market valuation will force a change.
12
The South Carolina Boeing plant pays significantly less than the Washington ones. More than once I was offered a job as a final inspector, the last Boeing to see the airplane before the customer took delivery. The pay for a experienced (40 years) ex-airline aircraft mechanic was insulting. Of course I turned it down.
I’ve seen this before, I worked as a contract mechanic when the Eclipse jet started production. The direct employees were hired mostly from a company that built school buses in Albuquerque. Management apparently didn’t see the difference between building buses and aircraft. My last week there I watched someone with all of three months working on aircraft who was not a certified aircraft mechanic, puzzling how to rig the flight controls from a hand written set of instructions. Primary flight controls. I attempted to explain how to “walk” cables and show him how to use rig pins. He looked at me like I was speaking Latin.
You get what you pay for, especially now, as the wages have not kept pace with inflation in the aircraft industry, many people with decades of experience have left the field. I have.
Also consider that in manufacturing of aircraft, FAA certification of the people building the aircraft is not required.
37
Boeing also seems to be having problems with its NASA contract. Seems they need a good solid course correction to focus more on quality and better management. Oh, but one of their guys is acting Secretary at DoD...guess image over substance matters more these days. What a sad fall for a once amazing company.
18
Boeing doesn't care about anything but money. They pay lip service to quality, and safety.
I feel sorry public and the rank and file workforce.. because they will be the ones hurt in the end.
7
I worked in aviation my whole life and witnessed the management versus engineering and management versus quality control up close and personal. When management wins the product and people pay the price. MBAs are trained to keep the company stock price going up, it's their only job and the only way to climb the ladder. Companies don't build anything according to business schools they exist only to pay dividends to shareholders. I humbly disagree.
18
Just about all that can be said here...has been said. I choose to reflect, momentarily, on the glory days of Boeing : The days, (not known to many here) of ROSIE THE RIVITER...the women who assembled the warplanes during WWII, when our men were at war in Europe and the Far East. Without the basic skills of these women assembly-workers, the B-17 FLYING FORTRESS, one of the most indestructible airframes of all times would not have brought an end to the European war to a successful ending. Their contribution to our Freedoms must NEVER be forgotten !!!
11
"... the B-17 FLYING FORTRESS ..."
Boeing has an admirable history, but that name was pure marketing hype. In fact, B-17s were getting shot down so fast that fighter escorts were required.
Anyway, the B-17 and the later B-29 cannot be compared to modern commercial aircraft, which are much more complex, not to mention bigger.
1
one thing I get from this story for sure. I ain't flying in no nightmareliner.
5
This link is for a dateline Australia show .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxxtzBTxGU
It says parts for the 737NG are made to substandard specifications and after 8 years or so corrosion sets in and 3 planes have broken apart while landing due to that corrosion.
I hope it plays.
2
This is not a big shock. It is a the result of the Bush Administration's gelding the FAA. If we want to fix this problem we need another 10,000 FAA inspectors and SERIOUS fines to Boeing for mistakes.
Are conservatives really happy to trust aircraft manufacturers with the planes the fly?
Just a question.
9
Exactly. They know there’s minimal accountability now that they’re part of safety and compliance.
Better look to Europe for safety. This includes our food, chemicals and pharmaceuticals.
5
Anybody ready to ride the Boeing rocket and vehicle to the space station, or anywhere else? If I owned Boeing stock, I would dump it. SpaceX seems the way to go.
1
This paragraph: "In North Charleston, the pace of production has quickened. Starting this year, Boeing is producing 14 Dreamliners a month, split between North Charleston and Everett, up from the previous 12. At the same time, Boeing said it was eliminating about a hundred quality control positions in North Charleston."
So basically, Boeing has learned nothing. I guess it's up to the consumer to teach them. I, for one, will ask for the plane model before I book a flight and reschedule as needed to avoid Boeing aircraft.
9
It all started when they moved building the wings to China
3
Really? Shavings near electrical parts in the second decade of the 2000's? I went to and graduated from an Aviation trade school in NYC in the 1980's. YES 1980's -- and this kind of stuff was known and forbidden then in the almighty FAA manuals and procedures to high schoolers aspiring for Airframe or Powerplant mechanic certifications. Boeing used to be the paragon of American manufacturing. Now, it's just a slave to MBA's with spreadsheets iterating the least possible cost for a nut.
20
This article is a sordid tale of Greed that permeates the executive suites of corporations, where everything-- including the environment and people's lives-- is subordinate to Wall Street investors' insatiable demand for short-term gain. Here the metastatic Greed manifests as relentless corner-cutting and cost-cutting, with potentially disastrous effects.
Government regulators are supposed to act as checks and balances on Greed, overseeing design and production and holding companies accountable for safety and quality standards. And the threat of lawsuits should also provide accountability. But Greed has now undermined those restraints.
Corporations now own the Republican Party, which has declared government a problem that only relentless deregulation and privatization can solve. To "save taxpayers money," companies now regulate themselves, with a downsized government providing mere rubber-stamp assurance. And the legal system has been undermined with "tort reform," along with mandatory arbitration in the "agreements" companies routinely dictate to consumers.
Companies are accountable only to shareholders, and only for maximizing short-term gain. Everyone and everything else is expendable. But CEOs enjoy a divine right to exorbitant "compensation" no matter what they do.
It will likely take a serious disaster, in which many innocent people must die, to make the need for real regulation clear enough to overcome generous campaign contributions that protect Greed.
11
The blind pursuit of profit at any cost is a familiar theme in today's hyper-capitalist corporatism, but it is more ominous with high-end machines like jet planes.
There is little margin of error there, because after takeoff the only way out of any plane is perfect -- or not at all.
The article describes a busy FAA taking notes and making reports about metal filings out of place and so on. But not a word about the illegal practices made legal by lobbyists, of cramming passengers where they have zero room to follow the FAA's own instructions from earlier decades, regarding the safety position in case of an emergency landing, for example.
Try doing that today flying coach and you'll crash your teeth against the backrest of the seat smack in front of you and right in your face.
Sardine Airlines is what we all fly now. And yet the ponderous FAA is mum.
oz.
7
Ah schizzle. People think regulations are bad ... and they need to be moderated, but they forget where they come from. They come from this kind of stuff.
Libertarians think gov regulations hold back corporations ... forgetting the the original libertarian formulation does not allow corporations to exist. Only real individuals making real consequences for which they are liable for (unfortunately, almost no one would then be crazy enough to start a business w/o the legal shielding corporations give you).
We need a balance, we're too far on the corporate side now and it's getting worse with Trump.
7
Cleaning up a plane before delivery does not sound like a high tech task. How much can Boeing be saving by not doing it ? You can be pretty sure that the real culprit is that management remuneration is geared to production. A plane goes out a day early and that is bonus money in management's pocket. Why would you not be cutting corners left right and center if its your personal income that is impacted. And remuneration of senior management is also geared to the same performance criteria, so senior management is highly motivated to avoid looking too closely at those short cuts. Its called greed. Its the greed of the mining company that does not maintain safety standards. Its the greed of the meat company that sends out tainted meat. Its the greed of the bankers who routinely break the law as they separate the customer from his money. And it isn't a question of corporate culture. The cancer is ingrained into our very being. Every aspect of our lives is impacted by the greed of one person or another. So lets not hear about how Boeing have taken care of it. They haven't. They can't. No-one can.
6
"Valuing production speed over quality."
I.e. the United States since Ronald Reagan.
Those in the know know we don't live as well as Europeans now -- except the rich of course.
I am leery to fly at this point.
8
The pressure to speed up tasks to improve throughput ispresent in many manufacturing facilities. It is likely needed to keep the process going at top efficiency, but there should always be the top priority for safety, and this was the impression I got after touring the Boeing plant in Seattle. "We don't want to see anything left lying around" (ball point pens, etc), even where we were sitting during the tour, away from production elements of the tour. I am a retired engineer and heard of cases where a short stature worker was accidentally left inside of a wing at an other manufacturer. He was able to work inside the wing. He got out of course but the process of building something as complex at an airplane is subject to errors. This dictates through supervision 24/7 and inspection and respect for whistle blowers. The troubles related to takeoff control in the recent tragic crashes were reported but seem to have been left out of the top priority issues by carriers and perhaps the indirectly by Boeing as well. The overall culture of the management of a company must be high quality and communicated to al who work on these critical for safety entities.
1
"... sharp metal pieces — produced when fasteners were fitted into nuts ..."
Fasteners have also been a source of problems in the US space program. For example:
"... a loose nut caus[ed] an internal electrical short circuit."*
In weightless conditions, previously hidden debris can be revealed when it floats around the spacecraft.**
* Project Gemini: A Technical Summary, Volume 1106
NASA, 1968.
** Airborne Particulate Matter in Spacecraft: Proceedings of a Panel Discussion
NASA, 1988.
1
There are much more recent incidents of problems with fasteners that you can point to - James Webb Space Telescope had a large number of fasteners come out during an acoustic test about a year ago. There are a number of articles about it on various space sites.
When Sarah Huckabee Sanders raps up her gig at the WH, it looks like a pr job at Boeing is guaranteed.
19
Non-union employees because they are cheaper, sounds like Boeing!! Grew up in a union household where the gold standard was met every day by qualified, certified people who were educated in their specialized areas. Guess all that cost cutting and savings goes to the corporate heads of Boeing for their yearly salaries and stock options. Shame on Boeing ...Airbus only!!
16
How's that U.S. National Rail project coming along?
7
Looks like some serious FOD training is overdue.
1
In the past decade, it's been heartbreaking to watch several once-great US enterprises run into the ground...
Both metaphorically and literally...
You don't want to believe it's happening – but, then, the signs are unmistakable...
Middle-management actually prefers to have both products and organizations that barely work, during this liquidation phase...
It gives managers totally ignorant of the crafts and skills needed for the enterprise, a patina of competence...
Sort of like when the NYC subway goes from 60% on-time to 75%...
And metrics – that purport to encompass both financials and operationals...
But just squeeze the turnip for blood...
Notwithstanding – if this is the glass half-empty view – here’s the glass half-full one...
In the past decade, it's been heartwarming to watch several now-great US enterprises scale to the vision, scope, and reach of their founders...
Amazon, Facebook, and Google are all transforming our society, culture, and governance...
> Health care will be disruptively improved by Amazon
> K-12 education will be disruptively improved by Google
> DARPA’s viability will be disruptively improved by Facebook
Happening beneath our feet...
But, Top Gun does – and will always – go to Steve...
Tim is no savior – but he’s one heckuva first apostle...
They will endure for quite some time...
3
Dennis Mullenburg, Boeing CEO, needs to go!
7
Great article NYTimes. This should be a wake up call for Boeing because if the flying public loses confidence in the safety of its planes, the company's future is grim. As others have noted Airbus, Bombardier and soon, Chinese manufacturers offer competitive alternatives. Boeing should take a long, hard look and learn from the lesson of GM which went from having a lock on the American auto market to being bested year after year by foreign manufacturers.
7
For new airplanes which have enough wiring inside to reach to the moon and back, it is quite disturbing to read about verified reports of new planes arriving with parts lefts inside; some of which included a ladder, tools, and possible the worst, metal shavings.
The metal shavings are extremely serious because they can potentially (and already may have) cut wiring so easily.
8
Watch Al Jazeera's "Broken Dreams" regarding the 787 built in SC, on YouTube. I didn't believe them until today's NYT article.
5
Another horrifying Boeing article. I will never fly on a Boeing 737 max again. They were never properly designed in the first place and software patches are a untrustworthy solution.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-the-boeing-737-max-disaster-looks-to-a-software-developer
4
The plane should be equipped with parachute as in fighter jet or for the vertical downturn safeness.
It is good to hold simulation and on board experimentation to install the parachute.
The parachute will quite help to reduce the damage in crash situation.
"The plane should be equipped with parachute as in fighter jet or for the vertical downturn safeness."
Fighter aircraft have parachutes for the crew. Commercial aircraft can carry hundreds of passengers, so it would be impractical to equip each one with a parachute. Further, military pilots are highly trained in ejecting from aircraft and using parachutes.
"The parachute will quite help to reduce the damage in crash situation."
If you are thinking of a parachute for the whole aircraft, you might want consider that a commercial airliner is VERY heavy.
In fact, the safest way to get an aircraft onto the ground is to fly or glide it down. A superb example is the 2009 ditching in the Hudson River made by pilots Chesley Sullenberger and Jeffrey Skiles after a bird strike.
2
The plane should be equipped with parachute as in fighter jet or for the vertical downturn safeness.
It is good to hold simulation and on board experimentation to install the parachute.
The parachute will quite help to reduce the damage in crash situation.
This was predicted back when Boeing moved to North Carolina for cheap labor and to destroy its union workers in the Northwest.
13
This has nothing to do with union or non-union. Are you saying the citizens of the Carolinas are not as capable as the citizens of the state of Washington? Do you harbor hatred of southerners?
1
@Lance Union workers have the protection of the local when retaliation is used due to whistleblowing. If one does not have those union protections then the employee is at the mercy of the company and company-biased "arbitration" procedures.
6
Kudos to the New York Times for having the courage to publish this article. I no longer fly Boeing Aircraft, only Embraer 190's flown by Jet Blue.
Boeing has going the way of GM, with the bean counters in charge. In the aviation industry this translates into what they call, "Tombstone" Mentality. They only do something when there is a crash and people die. In fact if it wasn't for the two crashes of the Boeing 737 Max the public would still by flying on this disaster waiting to happen.
So, my comment is, "Thanks, but no thanks." Boeing has gone off the Deep End because they can't compete against Airbus successfully without cutting a lot of corners and taking dangerous shortcuts.
Caveat Emptor.
7
This story -- though it relies partially on unnamed sources -- seems airtight. If I'm holding Boeing stock, I'm selling.
6
I had been planning to fly to NYC from Raleigh twice in May. Looks like my wife and I will be taking a train.
2
@tommag1 - lol, yes, that reminds me of the time the Amtrak was making its maiden trip on a new line and crashed into the commuter lane of I-5 during rush hour.
@tommag1 Look at the comparative statistics for deaths per mile for U.S. commercial aviation and train travel; if you do, you'll fly.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0739885912002156?via%3Dihub
You get what you pay for; hire undertrained, non-unionized workers who can't combine to say "no" when ordered to cut corners by greedy, unquailfied managers and you get trash--and deaths. It's starting to look like one of the best propections consumers have is unionized labor. Far from keeping lazy workers on the payroll, as greedy emplyers like Boeing insist, they are proud of their work, stand up for its quailty, and won't let management push them around.
The only thing better would be if the workers owned the company; then they'd have a big stake in its quality.
13
Their airline customers also need to start sending inspectors to oversee production of their aircraft - if Boeing isn't going to give their quality people the authority to make sure there's no FOD and no substandard parts are used, then their customers need to start doing it.
1
McDonnell -Douglas taking over Boeing with Boeing's money during the merger started this fall from grace. Thirty years ago we believed in quality, quality, quality. It was drummed into us on the mfg line that people's lives depended on our work. As quality control ,we were ever diligent. As Engineers, we had triple system redundancies. Now we have bean-countersat the helm instead of engineers. I just hope Boeing's reputation can be redeemed. As it is it just breaks my heart to see what is happening to our legacy.
8
The first new car I bought was a '71 Plymouth Valiant. On the way home, I felt that the back end was fish-tailing at every turn. I went right back to the dealer and was told later (and secretly) that a bolt tying body to frame was missing - the last American car I ever bought!
5
i think i ,m not flying Boeing for sometimes until there is substantial change in culture
America used to be and still is producer of high end stuff like jets but over last few decades investor/WS pressure for profits has resulted in what we are seeing now . It takes decades to build a stellar reputation however takes only few incidents to ruin it and this lying and cover up material is unheard of before
7
Well whadda know...Boeing moved the plant to a "right to work" state (read: right to get fired state) to avoid having union machinists and now have this problem on their hands.
Who could've seen this coming?
21
Dennis Muilenburg, president and chief executive of Boeing, took home $30 million last year.
The average Machinist I salary in North Carolina is $40,513 as of March 28, 2019, but the range typically falls between $36,030 and $46,689.
15
Mistakes will always be made. Only relentless testing and review by other parties can bring them to light. This is why checks and balances are required in any system, be it internal (quality control/assurance) as well as external (FAA). Our current free market isn’t enough, not when lives can be lost and years before problems identified and corrected. It seems less ‘efficient’, when looked at from a short-term profitability, but well worth it in the long run. A value that has been lost in our accelerated design to deployment timeline just over the past 30-40 years, in every industry, with compressed development cycles, and terms like ‘agile’, ‘just-in-time’.
6
I had a recent flight to Chicago. The first thing that came to me was what type of aircraft I was boarding. It was Bombardier to Chicago (ORD) and was Airbus back to Newark (EWR). For some reason, I was relieved. By the way, Comac C919 will compete with Boeing 737 Max and Airbus 320neo.
6
Actually, there is a third Boeing disaster. The KC-46 is the "new" Boeing Air Force tanker. It uses a 767 airframe, but is heavily modified for its new role. It is intended to replace the KC-135, the tanker based on the 707.
The KC-46 is years late, well over budget, and has suffered from a series of design and production problems. Recently the Air Force has suspended deliveries because of debris left in the plane during the production process.
Boeing has really gone downhill. Sad!
12
Perhaps airlines flying Boeing aircraft should be required to let customers know whether they are ticketed for planes built in Seattle or Charleston.
8
@woofer :) I would be very concerned to get on a plane built in Seattle because Boeing moved the plant to Everett in the 60's.
2
There are a myriad of problems in manufacturing jet liners and the larger private jets. The first problem drives all else; incremental payments follow the aircraft as it moves from station to station in the assembly process, a hitch in the process, and the money stops flowing until the hitch is resolved. This drives all else, management style, accounting, workforce management and most significantly, the approach to quality. Self inspection is endemic in US aircraft industry...the riveter inspections his own rivets, and so on down the line. The workforce is late getting the aircraft to the next assembly point and jeopardizes a payment installment, and you know what happens. The problem with qualify management in aircraft assembly is it takes so much TIME.
4
Root cause seems to be that a large employer establishes a huge factory requiring highly skilled, committed and experienced labor in an area where neither the skill, experience nor work ethic is locally available, and likely unobtainable. It may keep overhead and labor costs down, but if your product kills people or alienates your customers, the cost/benefit falls short and damages the company's reputation in the process.
15
This story has 9 lives, pushed by the Seattle based labor unions, because Boeing decided to locate in a right to work state. When the Charleston factory was opened this is all we heard about and perhaps there were a few teething problems that had to be corrected. The airlines who purchase these planes go over them with a fine tooth comb and have any problems fixed before they sign on the dotted line. I have not seen any evidence that the dispatch rate, safety of flight or unscheduled repairs is any different among the -8, -9, or -10 versions.
1
The airline mentioned in the story only buys 787s built in Seattle. I wonder if they know more than you do.
4
@sob I have a question or two? Are you employed by Boeing at the Charleston plant? Do you have access to quality control records? Do you hav actual assembly line reports from the different assembly stations? Finally do you have access to any quality control reports from the air lines who are receiving the finished planes? If you do I would like to go over tghem with you to see if this story has merit.
3
@Bascom Hill The 787 is not built in Seattle or even in the same county.
Boeing opened a plant in SC for one reason; to employ a cheap, non-unionized workforce. Over-worked employees, a culture where workers are afraid to report safety excursions, poor worker training... these are all a logical conclusion. Congrats Boeing, you got what you wanted.
27
These are the lines in this article that disturbed me the most: "A spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration, Lynn Lunsford, said the agency had inspected several planes certified by Boeing as free of such debris and found those same metal slivers. In certain circumstances, he said, the problem can lead to electrical shorts and cause fires.". So, the FAA found dangerous manufacturing defects in Boeing airplanes and did NOTHING? No fines, no reexamination of the FAA policy to allow deputized Boeing employees to be safety reviewers of new airplanes, nothing? Congress needs to have hearings on this ASAP!
13
The root cause of this is the fanatical obsession with "shareholder value". Here's a novel management philosophy - happy, well-paid workers make quality, world-class products that sell for a premium and keep the dividend checks flowing. Simply, huh? And you saved $2M not paying some know-nothing-know-it-all management consultant.
13
Al Jazerra had a documentary on the situation with 787s coming out of North Charleston back in Sept '14. https://youtu.be/rvkEpstd9os
While it seems clear that Boeing management has played a significant role in the current situation, it's safe to say that management doesn't ask them to leave trash and tools in aircraft nor does it guarantee that union workers aren't slobs as well.
2
Pressure not to report problems is a HUGE red flag. That goes beyond the pale.
11
I'm pretty sure the Russians were behind this and the failure of the waitress to bring my coffee in a timely manner.
4
@Dave
That’s real funny, Dave. It’s always funny when airplanes crash and people die. And it’s funny when a foreign country helps steal an election for a demagogue who threatens the existence of the Republic. Wow, thanks! I needed a few good laughs today.
1
Management turning a blind eye to scruples is not unique to Boeing.
5
Those posting below this is a Republican issue and Trump is to blame need to wake up....Boeing moved to the 'right to work' state purposefully during the Obama administration. The lack of oversight and all the issues started back when Obama nominated Huerta as Deputy Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) on January 26, 2010, right after Boeing broke ground at Charleston. Huerta continuing on 6 December 2011 to become Acting Administrator of the FAA; then March 27, 2012, President OBAMA formally nominated him to serve as the next permanent Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration....then in Jan 2018, after issues were being revealed at the plane maker during his tenure, he saw the writing on the wall....and used the "I hate Trump" excuse to go running and hide in the woods....this issue was occurring during course of the Obama years....and, Boeing only advertises on predominantly Dem run media....so stop blaming Trump....its getting old....
3
I may dislike Trump, but you have a point. These issues aren't new, and that means the previous administration does share the blame. At the end of the day, though, Boeing itself is most accountable and I hope that now, finally, the government takes action to address their flagrant, criminal behavior.
3
@jaydee thank you for your insight. I hve read all of the comments above you and not 1 blamed Trump. It also never occurred to me to blame the President for issues that Boeing is having building airplanes. I am an electrical engineer with 30 years experience. The problems in the last two crashes of Boeing aircraft were definitely computer/programming errors. Also there seemed to be a deliberate lack of information in the plane manuals on the subsystems that activated and caused the pilots to lose control of the doomed flights. Again I never thought of blaming either Obama or Trump. If you want to blame the FAA fine. I then would have to blame Congress for approving the directors.
@Joseph Konzelman more than one comment writer has blamed the Republicans/GOP, Bush, Reagan, et al and of course, per standard Times readers, wrote only the Democrats can save us. Simplistic and not at all sophisticated. Deregulation of the U.S. airline industry also began under Carter and not Reagan but most Times readers blame Reagan time and time again. I remember when the majors began adding one seat per row on widebody aircraft and decreased seat pitch to add more rows. Oh, and Airbus has had its issues, too.
Can anyone tell me if Airbus has the same problems?
2
@Jim a very good question.
3
It’s the American obsession with “Freedom”, which was long ago hijacked by “wanting to be free from responsibility” that’s finally bringing the chickens home to roost.
Be it the inability to tell the truth or live to one’s commitments, down to not texting while driving.... the culture has been inundated with self absorption and self aggrandizement, to the exclusion of everything and everyone else.
Now the ugly tentacles created by the erosion of our national character are starting to strangle us. Be it the BP blowout in the Gulf, the hurricane Harvey response in PR or Boeing Jets filled with metal shavings.... the signals that are being sent are clear and unmistakable.
5
Penny saved; pound foolish. US economic world leadership diminished by the profit motive gone sidewise...Again.
There’s no esprit d’corp or worker pride in union breaking. Who can trust Boeing and the US FAA after the 737 SuperMax debacle and upon knowing Boeing ignores its own quality inspectors in the same manner of the Morton Thiokol and the Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster?
6
This event—The loss of one of the greatest reputations in all business history—fueled by the demonic greed of an aspiring new American Aristocracy, and the relentless drive for excessive profits and wildly excessive pay for CEOs— tells the whole story of the decline and fall of the American Century and the imminent loss of the Pax Americana.
In the 189Os, Republicans campaigned on the promise of “a chicken in every pot”, and the best-known “Words of Wisdom” of every successful business was “the customer is always right!”
In the 1950s America reached unimagined heights of prosperity as a Republican administration launced the greatest public works project in human history—The interstate highways, once the envy of every nation. GOP-led Feds invented the Internet, and subsidized development of semiconductors and computers —laying the groundwork for the digital age—by letting out contracts for ever-faster & more powerful computers for defense and Social Security.
In every period of prosperity in American history Investment by “Uncle Sam”— remember him?— led the way— the Erie Canal and the the transcontinental railroad, Boulder & Grand Coulee Dams, to name but few.
All paid for by income taxes at high marginal rates!
Now the Republican idea is to “never give a sucker an even break”, make a killing on Wall Street, then hide your fortune offshore and pay NO federal income tax, all while starving half of the population into an obedient peasantry and urban proletariat.
MAGA!
10
That is indeed the story. And a sad one. A once great country is vanishing.
5
Boeing X CEO McNerney from 2005 to 2015 introduced quality degradation as a business model for quick bucks as alluded to in this piece and confirmed of late.
To be fair, he previously sold soap and scotch tape and his specialty was "branding". But neither soap nor scotch tape need fly and "branding" is no help either in controlled flight.
He became big of bud of Trump advising presumably on "branding" which is all Trump's got.
In fact Trump said of the crashing Max issue, it needs rebranding with new name.
The new CEO will need more than a new name and hat logo to pull the Max up from its nose dive.
Even the village idiot knows Boeing needs to scratch build a new plane to compete with Airbus but they seemed determined to throw good money after bad.
5
McNerney.....Yale...DKE...Harvard Business School....McKinsey....GE.... Great resume for one more B school genius but he got the stock price up....Boeing will follow GE when the Chinese figure out how to make planes just like they make GE appliances.
Unfettered capitalism at its finest, eh?
2
Could someone please recommend an airline that doesn't fly Boeing aircraft?
Delta flies a lot of Airbus planes.
2
But.....no collusion, no obstruction.
Nothing to see here.
Wanna' feel safe as a citizen of the US?
Wanna' feel safe flying Boeing?
How quaint.
How liberal.
How out of touch.
2
I'm dumbfounded that a company like Boeing -- whose heart & soul is built around high performance aviation machines -- can have anything less than a complete commitment to absolute perfection and "cleanliness" (ie, no FOD!) inside its every one of its products. Who are these "senior executives" at Boeing who have permitted even a single jet to roll out with trash and even tools (!) strewn about? Unbelievable! I'm a former US Navy flight officer... With many years on many ships and flight lines. The FIRST thing you learn in a Navy squadron is to pick up all FOD, trash, etc. The day begins with "FOD walkdown" in hangars & staging areas. Looking for anything... trash, cigarette butts, loose wire, blown grit, paint flakes, whatever... anything! And then there's tool control; or not, apparently at Boeing? Utterly basic! First rule of aviation...You never leave anything in the aircraft... And certainly not tools. It's like surgeons in an operating room... Take all the devices out of the patient that went inside. Clearly, Boeing has major problems... And frankly, they aren't the fault of line workers. It's a top-down management culture that apparently doesn't care... or worse, doesn't even understand the problem.
13
Time to stop letting the aircraft makers police themselves. Re-regulate this process and hire many more FAA inspectors!! NOW!!!
5
Boeing's management should move back from Chicago to Seattle area to get back in-touch with actual plane-production people.
2
How hypocritical- Qatar wants jets built by union workers in Washington but treats its own immigrant working class despicably.
6
love it when government regulations are useless. and more government is better? baaaahahhah.. we've met the enemy and its us!!
I think that I shall never fly
in Boeing planes up in the sky.
Their factories do shoddy work,
with wiring that goes berserk.
They used to be reliable
but now are way too pliable
with standards and their training schools --
employees scratch their heads at tools.
I think their unions better say
to immigrants "Please come and stay!"
"We need your fresh and younger brains
to once again make safer planes!"
4
When is the CEO of Boeing going to resign? After the crashes of two defective 737max8 planes, his failure to do so shows just how seriously he takes the safety of the people who fly in his company's planes.
3
Money and greed!
3
profits sometimes trumped safety.
Say it ain't so. This couldn't happen in this day and age./s
1
Boeing doesn’t deserve the lousy managers it has had over the last decade or so. Hopefully, latest when the Max issues will have been solved, management past and present will be held accountable. Running down such a great company like Boeing, with on top of that an awful loss of life, is on par with crime.
2
In South Carolina, they also make BMWs. With a non-union low skilled work force.
The difference is there is little room for error when your plane is in flight.
If your BMW breaks down, you call a tow truck
I hope the quality of union built versus non-union built 787s are compared. With this example, and the 737, we see that Boeing prizes profit over everything else. Perhaps that should be their motto.
Of course, what else? The only thing Boeing is interested in doing is making money — money over safety; money over the health an safety of the people that fly in the jets they produce.
2
Don't forget that in 2001 Boeing moved its C suite to Chicago and away from its engineers in Seattle. That says something about the change in corporate culture.
7
Another example of what happens when bean counters run a company instead of engineers or those who understand manufacturing. Also, this is the result of getting rid of unions. Unions have a incentive to think longer term and to flag problems. When you have a bunch of subs and people with temp jobs, they have no incentive to fix or notify of problems since they can be easily fired. It is SAD that this country used to be know for quality and now even a storied company like Boeing is behaving like a third world company just so a CEO can eke out a penny more in profits so his stock options are worth more. SAD!
13
This is what has happened in America. The bean counters are running the show. Even in the oil and gas industry, they rush you to finish with no regard to quality and safety. It is not the engineering team, it is people that in many cases do not have the basic knowledge of what it takes to do the work making decisions . If Americans knew what time bombs are being installed and built all around and close to their cities they would be protesting in the streets. To make things worse, the same people are sending this jobs to low cost centers in 3rd world countries. First the manufacturing jobs were taken away and now the engineering and design jobs as well.
5
Expertise and safety should be the single overriding mantra for Boeing. It seems that the safety and expertise have been taken for granted by bean counters, and as a result the whole enterprise is at risk along with shareholder equity. A reputation for quality and safety drives all else in air travel. The company quarterly profits are a senseless measure when the longer view is required.
A bird flaps wings to fly; Boeing has a flap which could be more like a canary in the coal mine. The company "oxygen" is "consumer confidence", and when it is lacking, the company and really the American reputation for quality, may be snuffed like the pre-technology canaries.
4
First and foremost Boeing's Chicago management of McDonald Douglas retreads moved production to North Carolina and the reactionary political regime that supported it to punish a union that stood up to Boeing in Everett, Washington. Second this is the THIRD Boeing aircraft to suffer sloppy production and debris problems - the Air Force has expressed alarm at the condition of the 767 tankers being delivered to them. Meanwhile, Boeing management wants to layoff 1,000 safety inspectors as "not needed" because "automation can handle it". You know, like the Boeing automation that did such a fine job for Lion Air and in Ethiopia. Here we go again...
11
787 Dreamliner is coming out from the same culture of corporate greed as 737 Max. If we have auto crashes where a few hundred people lose their life, where it is projected that something is wrong with the vehicle in a causative and systemic way, it would be investigated and the problem identified and possibly a few people including the CEO would have been fired and possibly held criminally liable. But in this case originally the crashes were blamed on the pilots and the airlines in a rather racist tone.
Now we have evidence about another manufacturing line of the same company, it is now evident that it is the corporate culture and not a singular assembly line that is to be blamed.
If Boeing would have been a company from a third world or European country sanctions would have been placed already with passengers warned not to fly on the airplanes manufactured by the airline.
This is what could help Boeing come out of this mess.
Stop flying newer Boeing planes, airlines would start cancelling their orders resulting in the wholesale changes in the management at Boeing possibly salvaging the company.
4
How Boeing made their own bed:
1. Try to squeeze the machinists' union that made you into what you are (after many billions in tax breaks from the state of Washington) because you want to pad your bottom line.
2. Move production to the labor unfriendly/right to work state SC after said tax breaks which were implemented to keep those jobs in WA.
3. Cut corners hiring untrained and/or incompetent personnel in SC.
4. What we have here.
14
Fundamentally, the issue is the Corporate Culture, NOT whether a factory is Unionized. When Honda first opened their plant in Ohio, there were may concerns whether the cars will be "as good" as the ones made in Japan. Now, we take it for granted that the Toyotas, Nissans, Subarus, BMWs, VWs, and Mercedes built in the US are just as good as the same brands made anywhere.
At the VW plant in Chattanooga, I was surprised to learn that no smoking is permitted ANYWHERE on the factory grounds so as to avoid potentially damaging the finish on the cars. In the Deep South. Smokers have to drive outside VW property to smoke! This factory competes with other VW factories to manufacture cars so their standards and processes have to be as good as their counterparts at a minimum. BTW, the Chattanooga VW plant is NOT Union.
There is no doubt Quality Manufacturing can be done ANYWHERE in the US. Had Boeing brought the Culture and Processes from Everett over to North Charleston, we would not be reading this story.
3
Can it be any wonder that two jets just came down due to faulty systems given this lack of quality control and concern for speed on far simpler issues...
1
A great hitting "percentage" in baseball is 0.333. A terrific pass completion percentage in (American) football is 70%. From some of the comments on here, you would think the authors expect a plane to land safely every single time. You just can't please some people.
4
Yes, when I fly with an airlines, I expect the plane to land safely.
5
I don't believe that airlines want planes that are at risk of crashing. They're in the transportation business, not the murder business. If they're ok with Boeing then I am too. Also, it is legitimate to investigate how much of a role union sabotage is playing in any quality control issues Boeing is having.
Shoddy production practices at the SC Dreamliner production plant, optional safety features on the 737 Max8.
Good plan to ruin a once great reputation Boeing or to go out of business.
4
This is a serious matter, and I don't want to be lead cheerleader for production at the North Charleston, SC plant. On the other hand, the 787 has an excellent safety and reliability record, and many of the 800 plus 787s now flying were made in North Charleston. Dreamliners made in SC have not been falling out of the sky (unlike, sadly, the 737 Max, which is made in Everett, Washington). Management needs to be held strictly accountable for the production issues in North Charleston, but I wouldn't hesitate to fly on a 787 made there.
3
Message: Unions are good for consumers not just workers.
10
In our current “free market” economic system of Governing, workers rights, deregulation of policy, procedure and process in the name of profit is rewarded over performance. What gets rewarded get done. We no longer produce for shareholders and all stakeholders. It’s shareholders only. Just another red light blinking. And our super intelligent, very bright deal maker President says the answer is “rebranding”.
5
What an indictment against Boeing and all corporations who put profits above safety. They thrive with few regulations and hire the cheapest labor they can find thus creating a dangerous lack of interest in quality control. Repurpose them into something but do not let these planes fly.
6
Fire the CEO, close the South Carolina plant, and build a new plant in union-strong, yet relatively inexpensive, Illinois, close to corporate headquarters.
There's an abandoned air force base 75 miles south of Chicago that could be an ideal spot for building and flight testing airplanes. Ironically, one reason they moved HQ to Chicago was its vast network of commuter trains that "fly" past traffic gridlock. That abandoned AFB is already served by 6 Amtrak trains daily from a station literally across the street from HQ in Chicago.
But first, fire the CEO and stanch the bleeding.
18
Uh . . . Boeing moved its corporate HQ to Chicago ONLY because it got huge (taxpayer funded) incentives from the city’s legendarily self-padding and corrupt politicians (I lived there from 1985-2009). When those expire, Boeing will move to whatever sucker/corrupt/insecure locality offers them the best deal/most breaks at local taxpayers’ expense. Might be a little difficult to negotiate, though, given Boeing’s reputation these days. You’d have to be pretty desperate to want to promote yourself as “Home of Boeing.” Come to think about it, Chicago and Boeing are a perfect match. As is Chicago and United. https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-united-severance-20160503-snap-story.html
I don't hear a lot of complaints about the 787 from Boeing's air carrier customers. They seem eager to get the plane into service and they're the folks most intensely interested in quality. Moreover, the 787 has a very good safety record.
This makes me wonder if the problem with tool and debris left in planes isn't mostly sabotage by some workers unhappy with their co-workers voting against unionization.
3
The decline of Boeing is the inevitable result of the GOP’s vision for American business: the religion of deregulation and an all-out war on union protections for workers.
What do we think is going to happen when companies are allowed to regulate themselves on safety-critical issues and move operations to locales without qualified workers just to avoid paying appropriate wages?
It is sad that instead of rightful pride in this once-exemplary American company, we’ve been reduced to fearing its newest products.
15
As you read this article you must keep in mind that the union has been trying to unionize this North Charleston plant since before it was opened, without success. To me, the article wreaks of employee sabotage and attempts to malign the company to seek favor for a union environment.
3
@vinman
Sure blame the unions and not the Management. The CEO makes around 27 million and year and will get $250,000 per month upon retirement. While shamelessly, without conscience, ending pensions to the people who do the actual hard work on the factory floor.
12
Many (too many, actually) fresh out of engineering school, I worked for GE in Erie, PA building locomotives. This was my first experience working along side a unionized work force. They quickly impressed me with their focus on quality, if a worker saw something like metal shavings left on a locomotive floor, they would flag it and get management. Management respected the worker and would get the issue corrected. Quality was job one and anyone could stop production to fix a problem.
I guess times have changed.
28
I give Boeing another ten years before it just falls apart. So it goes with late stage, 20th century capitalism in a new millennium.
4
The algorithm for booking a flight has drastically changed. Instead of the cheapest flight, what type of plane is assigned to that particular schedule.
5
First 737 Max, now this. Unacceptable. Boeing's reputation is on the line at the worst possible time. COMAC -- China's own commercial aviation manufacturer -- is within months of launching its competitor to the B737. So Boeing needs to admit its problems, replace its leadership with a truly accountable management team, and stop placing passengers' lives at risk. No other alternative is acceptable.
19
Boeing is making an already safe plane safer again.
On several occasions the Air Force has stopped excepting new tankers from Boeing because it was finding all sorts of trash and junk in the new aircraft that also points to poor workmanship and inspections.
11
Between making a higher profit and keeping people safe Boeing choose higher profit. This is equal to killings people for money. I used to love America but due to guys like Dennis Muilenburg this is becoming ever more difficult.
5
Would Boeing managers put their own families on the 787's out of North Charleston? Boeing's management needs to be replaced and revamped to restore faith in the company.
5
If you watch the Al Jazeera’s 2014 documentary they went undercover in the plant and several workers said they’d never fly in the planes they were building.
https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/boeing787/
2
I was dubious from the start of the radical design choices made concerning materials
It all fits together. Go to a state with non-union labor. Keep wages low. Inferior educational systems which produce a lower quality workforce. Complain about problems and you are fired. Yep. Let's make airplanes. What could go wrong?
23
I'm a commercial pilot. Not an airline pilot. But I know enough to find this article frightening. Over 300 people have died as a result of unfathomably stupid decisions -- actually indecisions-- made by Boeing. Those 737 Max crashes were the DIRECT RESULT of not informing pilots of drastic changes in shutdown procedure of failed systems. And the FAA languidly strolls on accepting the company's assurances that all is well.
21
This is all obviously shocking and scary. But as a consumer, the thing I would like to know the most is how to avoid flying on the planes made at the South Carolina plant. All I want is some control over the risk that I subject myself to
6
I am a Boeing retiree. I am proud to have worked for Boeing. But now, if these allegations are found to be true my pride may be somewhat dampened.
Perhaps there is a pitfall in having a non-union workforce, workers that are not protected from retaliation due to their concern over manufacturing standards.
Lastly, again we should question the lack of support our regulatory agencies receive from the administration and Congress such as starving the agencies of the resources needed to properly oversee the manufacturers of food, drugs and aircraft. Which leads to another question-how often is FAA conducting their manufacturing and quality audits of Charleston, or, are the managers eye washing the process, and are those persons from the FAA knowledgeable in their activities.
16
This reminds me of a story my brother told me about his experiences working at a Ford assembly plant in the 1960's.
His job was to install the window washer motor to the body of the vehicle being assembled as it moved past his work station. He told me the motor should have been attached with four bolts.
But, he told me, the line rarely moved slowly enough for him install all four bolts. Three bolts installed was very good, two bolts was the norm and one bolt was acceptable.
Ford in the 1960's is not Boeing today but both exhibit the same mentality: The corporate bottom line trumps all else, and quality control is a drain on corporate profits.
Bad product almost destroyed Ford in the 1980's. Ford was only saved because Reagan forced Japan to limit its sales of cars in the United States.
Hopefully, the Federal regulators will be able to regain their independence from Boeing and protect the lives of the flying public before more people die.
14
When it gets to the point that customers refuse deliveries, we should all agree there is a systemic quality issue. This is not a "unioin / non-union" issue; the Air Force halted acceptance of KC-46 (767) tankers, assembled in long-standing, union-represented, Boeing Everett Washington plant. Nor, is this a matter of training. Just how much training is required to know that tools, ladders, metal shavings, etc., should not be left behind?? Sounds much more like management cranking up the production rate and willing more planes to come out the hanger door each month without a clue as to whether such is really possible or just what resources are needed to make it possible. Sounds, too, like management does not want to hear bad news so the manufacturing information system has been tuned to deliver only the good news to the C-suite.
Monopolies can behave like this; duopolies are not much better for preventing this kind of situation. I wonder if such would be happening if we still had three or more competitors in the commercial airplane market. Perhaps the DoJ should not have allowed Boeing to swallow McDonnell Douglas.
16
"Just how much training is required to know that tools, ladders, metal shavings, etc., should not be left behind??"
That's a simplistic analysis.
In particular, workers leave their tools and equipment when they go on breaks so they can pick up where they left off. And a properly designed manufacturing process would inventory all tools and equipment before workers enter an aircraft and after they leave it.
As for metal shavings, there shouldn't be any produced during assembly. That's a problem in the manufacturing process. Metal shavings should only be produced in a machine shop, where they can be collected reliably.
3
@EKN Sorry, you are woefully ignorant about manufacturing processes. Aircraft are piece parts which are installed into assemblies which make up aircraft components which are assembled into airframes, this entire process involves drilling holes which produce shavings, those holes are then filled with various fasteners that hold the parts together, hardly a machine shop environment.
1
Allen: "... this entire process involves drilling holes ..."
That drilling should be done in a machine shop, not in an airframe. Don't make excuses for incompetent manufacturing engineering.
I am surprised that there is little mention that Nikki Haley (former Ambassador to the united Nations) expects to be voted on to the Board of Boeing by shareholders at the end of this month. This, in microcosm, is what is wrong with business in the United States at present. What can Haley bring to the table other than influence in Washington and probably Columbia? I suggest absolutely nothing. If shareholders had collective sense they would reject this Republican zealot who no doubt helped to create the unhealthy working environment in South Carolina described in this piece.
28
"... Nikki Haley (former Ambassador to the united Nations) ..."
If you that's all you know about Haley, it is no surprise you can't find anything good to say about her.
In fact, Haley was Governor of South Carolina for about six years. Haley has also had executive positions in business. See Haley's biography on Wikipedia.
@EKN I'm well aware of Haley's background and I stand by my comments. Her experience is not relevant to the Boardroom of Boeing and as Governor of SC she has nothing to be proud of except perhaps removal of the traitors flag.
The fact they were going to cut hundred of QA positions knowing they had a lack of quality labor is precisely why the FAA should not be run by them. The South Carolina gov. paid $324,675 roughly each for the 3,080 full-time jobs (the $1B in tax breaks), footed the bill for $33M of training for this private company, and Boeing turns around and stifles unions. The tax dollars of the people of South Carolina are being used to subsidize Boeing private profit, and the people are told how lucky they are. Oh and in case they weren't feeling lucky enough, we have the trump tax cuts. That is such a miscarriage of the duties of the government of South Carolina- they are supposed to work for people not corporations!
31
After retiring from the Air Force (22 years), I joined Boeing as systems, software and test engineer for 24 years, all on military aircraft, 13 years on the B-1B bomber and 11 years on the F-22 fighter. I also walked the picket line for 40 days and nights, as a retired colonel with 2 MIT masters degrees. Our culture in the 80s and 90s was quality over profits, which I supported, having a son-in-law piloting e B-1B.
Boeing's decline began when when flower child CEO Phil Condit entered a merger with McDonnell Douglas and turned the company over to Harry Stonecipher, who was universally detested. Stonecipher hated labor unions. Stonecipher moved the HQ to Chicago. Stonecipher got his comeuppance when he was fired for a dalliance with a female VP.
Alan Mullaly, a heritage Boeing employee who knew airplanes, should have been made CEO. Boeing management is currently exercised by those whose expertise is yellow stickup notes.
1203
Wow! And all that happened in just the last two years?
7
@JSK I agree that Alan Mullaly should have been made CEO. It's mind boggling how he was passed over. If he was made CEO, it would have been very unlikely the issues Boeing had since his departure would have occurred. One can see Mullaly's track record at Ford and the turn around clearly demonstrated his professionalism. I followed Boeing over many years and their problems began with the whole McD merger, it was all downhill since then. The former CEO of Boeing, Jim McNerney was horrible and clearly focused on profits over quality and didn't help Boeing by greatly demoralizing the workforce. One can clearly remember his statement of his "employees will still be cowering.." Great way to motivate your workforce.
155
I recall Alan Mulally getting passed-over for the top slot at Boeing after a steady climb with them for most of his career there.
He was soon after that decision, called up by Ford, to lead them through existential challenges right before Cheney and Bush nearly caused the near complete demise of the US Auto manufacturing sector.
Mulally saved Ford, and maybe the Big Three, from the scrap heap during the 2008-09 financial crisis...!
It now appears to have been Boeing's consequential loss to not choose the right leader.
154
The problem with crony capitalism is that you never know when the government is putting the public’s or private companies’ interests first.
The FAA and president have been so cozy with Boeing that it’s hard to trust that their planes are even safe to fly. The Federal Aviation Administration ought to be above suspicion, but how can it be when so many other parts of the government are run on behalf of the corporations they are supposed to regulate?
Whether it’s the financial, food, environmental, pharmaceutical or aviation industry, we are all left having to figure out who we can trust because Republicans are deregulating everything in a very short sighted way. It’s only when the water they drink, the food they eat and the planes they fly kills them that maybe they’ll realize the mistakes they made; however, I doubt they’ll even call it crony capitalism when that happens.
16
This is what one should expect from a corrupt management culture that prioritizes profit over people, takes pride in one-upmanship that squeezes concessions from state governments and workers wages and benefits, and ignores safety issues. The entire Boeing senior management should be sacked because they are a continuing threat to public safety and welfare.
10
Two large Boeing commercial planes have recently crashed, killing everyone on board. Both were relatively new, and were flown with defective software. Why would anyone think production and design problems are limited to just one model of Boeing airplane?
20
Maybe they should move the production facilities further north to NC. Or relocating workers from there
To the South. Whatever is easier.
I think it is a general problem in our manufacturing
Industry. Low skilled , low trained workers and an off hand management, which appears to the factory floor only once or twice a year.
Making funds available for proper training and reward and encourage bringing in new ideas in problem solving .
1
I read this article, and those relating to the 737 max 8, and I recall from several years ago management practice at Boeing being called into question. The International Project Leadership Academy cited the 787 project in their ‘Catalogue of Catastrophe’ (http://calleam.com/WTPF/?p=4617) and the Seattle Times reported on it too, publishing an engineer’s report that questioned the company outsourcing policy for the 787 with regards to engineering practice at the organisation (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2011/02/04/2014130646.pdf).
6
I believe the Air Force also has stopped accepting the new tankers for this very reason.
Something is wrong at Boeing. Hope they fix it.
7
I sure hope Boeing's managers didn't learn their trade in today's business schools. If they did then the whole economy is in for a rough flight.
6
I just watched a World War 2 documentary on the History Channel about the aerial bombing campaign against Germany with Boeing B-17 aircraft. Some of these B-17’s were incredibly damaged, but somehow made it back to England. How far Boeing has fallen is sad, but dangerous because when Boeing screws up, people die!!!
8
Surprise surprise, playing a numbers game and rushing production = a crappy result.
5
Does all this sound familiar? Afraid so. Meanwhile out of Boeing headquarters in Chicago somes comes verbal denial and general balony. From Boeing bean counters ways to make even more money. From the FAA silence without embarrassing public reprimands or fines? From Republicans praises of deregulation. Does it appear that one American manufacturing icon is strangling the goose which lays its golden eggs. I know other American icons who have done it. American capitalism is running off the rails and proper regulation is the only way I know of to protect consumers.
18
This reminds me of the run-up the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster. Technicians and engineers on the factory floor are being overruled by managers obsessed with production schedules. It won’t end well.
13
If you want to stop Boeing from delivering these planes the solution is simple-DON'T BUY BOEING PLANES. Airlines that buy them are on notice that Boeing planes are poorly built and are held together, in some cases, with bubble gum-no too mention soda cans, metal slivers, etc.,The airlines has a duty to make sure we fly on safe planes. Given Boeing propensity to build dangerous planes the airlines need to have personal on hand at Boeing plants to insure compliance and Boeing should pay for that cost.
1
Boeing = shoddy. Boeing’s decline will one day be a case study.
9
You want cheap labor? Well, you get what you pay for. How could Boeing's chief decision makers ignore this reality?
15
Like much of America’s traditional manufacturing base, Boeing is a once-great company that’s been hollowed-outlet in pursuit of “six sigma”-type continuous cost cutting. Now it’s cultural rot has made it un-reformable - these guys are still building the max, which is unlikely to ever carry passengers again. Unfortunately, that’s where we are. Boeing could become a favorite of short-sellers as its Enronian nature reveals itself.
8
The problem is that corporate governance is an oxymoron. Boards of directors are paid to rubber stamp overpaid CEOs for mediocre performance. The corporations themselves are lavished with tax breaks and protected by regulatory and legal frameworks that protect them from class action lawsuits and accountability. Do you really think corporate heads will roll at Boeing after it becomes official what we already know about these defective planes? Ralph Nader keeps warning us about corporate malfeasance and we keep electing politicians in bed with corporations that could care less about our safety.
5
Fascinating how many Readers and commenters here want to blame this on low skill non-union labor. Folks - get a grip. I’ve worked in both Union and nonunion plants and I can tell you personally there is absolutely NO difference in skill and capability between union and non union. Period. This piece in fact feels like a bit of a weird hit job on Boeing - you could find “whistleblowers” of the same kind at dark near any manufacturing plant. Something smells fishy about the Boeing pile on going on right now.
4
@TC
You are very wrong indeed.
The location of the workforce is paramount in inculcating into the local labor market whatever type of work ethic is there.
Clearly there is a very sad and poor one down there.
5
@TC True that.
@TC
Tell that to the loved ones of the Lion Air and Ethiopian crashes.
The problems with the Boeing 787 are similar to those with their 737 Max. Management emphasizes profit too much at the expense of quality and safety. The problem for both is clearly described in this article about the 737: Max.https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-the-boeing-737-max-disaster-looks-to-a-software-developer
4
An ever increasing picture of a company run amok.
This did not happen overnight but began with the merger with McDonald-Douglas. The Douglas people have not ruined three companies!
The Boeing management should be fired by the stockholders for the 737 Max debacle. And charged with murder by prosecutors for the two crashes.
3
@taxpayer
Correction: "... the Douglas people have NOW ruined three companies."
1
Don't fly Boeing, the once proud airplane manufacturer. Management should be fired. Apparently, the buck stops nowhere at Boeing.
4
This must be the year, that the Carolinas are being trashed, for their own inadequacies! From the corruption in North Carolina's 9th Congressional District to the shabby building of the Dreamliners in South Carolina! They are going to need a good spinmeister! President Trump might have recommendations!!!
4
I will never fly in a Boeing aircraft again. Never.
6
All R & D goes into adding seats.
7
If it’s Boeing, I may not be going....
5
Note the pink tennis balls in the photo with the wiring harnesses.
That's a creative solution*, but it suggests that no one is *engineering* the manufacturing process. Someone should be asking:
* Why do we need those?
* Is there a better way to solve the problem?
And the wiring bundles look quite sloppy. Why all the uncut cable ties?
* I'm guessing that the pink tennis balls are either post markers or head protectors.
1
Bottom line when flying.......If it’s Boeing I ain’t going!
3
North Charleston is not a union location, Renton WA is union.
1
This article, in addition to the 737-Max issues, give me grave concerns over ever stepping into a Boeing aircraft ever again. That being said, I wonder how pilots who fly these planes feel?
I am not a pilot. I realize that commercial airline pilots face pressures unique to their profession, but more so given they are responsible for the lives of hundreds of their passengers while flying these Boeing-made jets. It would be a great follow-up to gather a group of Boeing Dreamliner pilots and get their take on this article.
8
If one wanted to make an argument in favor of the gynormous compensation doled out to US CEOs it might be that they are being paid to maintain the integrity of gigantic organizations upon which huge numbers of employees and customers depend for their livelihoods and safety. One would then have to ask if Boeing's CEO has earned his gynormous compensation.
3
There definitely is a culture of mismanagement at Boeing. The greed factor is displayed at almost every step of each project and their constituent edges and vertices.
My family and I only fly on non-Boeing built aircraft.
At least Airbus, Bombadier and Canadian Regional Jet put passenger safety and security ahead of profits.
4