Nipsey Hussle Was Hailed as a Hero. But to California Officials, He Was Still a Gangster.

Great article on Nipsey Hussel! I have a question however for the masses. If a former gang member were someone other than Nipsey, and his friend who were shot was then arrested, would the views of everyone be the same? If one were related to a victim of rape, murder, robbery by a former gang, first, how many people would be disappointed with the system because the system released the felon from prison and was seen in an area with other murderers, or a pedophile hanging around a daycare passing out fliers for a good cause? Please be truthful. We can't change the law to our convenience. It simply doesn't work like that.When one join a gang, Do they not say they're gang members till the day they die? Now although Nipsey was a NEW man, was he still affiliating with current gang members? Let me get to my point. There was so many holes in this. First, the bottom line is one will go back to prison for game affiliation regardless although there are many who don't go back to prison. if you're a former gang member and for the safety of the community, you're told not to hang with the gang members period! Same is true for a former drug user they can't affiliate themselves with anyone who's on drugs. Although, the system is flawed it's been proven that when you disassociate yourself, there's more success. I think we will all agree on that. Nipsey being a new man is not exception to the rule. Continue reading 2 page

I wonder how many White nationalist, KKK or California domestic terrorist are on this gang database? In norther CA there are armed groups preparing for race war. Then there is the gang in blue who carry guns and badges. This gang has also been infiltrated by the above mentioned terrorist.

The line between right and wrong is being blurred. Are we to accept tacit approval of gangs in efforts to reduce prison populations?

Yes, the lists are arbitrary. No, the rules of parole/probation are not. Do the crime, do the time. And when recidivist offenders destroy their communities - free to do so in the name of criminal justice reform - the ‘activists’ will have no one to blame but themselves. Though I’m sure they will again direct their ire outside - rather than within - their community.

For over fifteen years I have been lasering tattoos off of formerly incarcerated or gang-affiliated men and women in Los Angeles under the healing umbrella of Homeboy Industries. These brave and committed individuals come in time and time again to endure the pain of the procedure so that their transformations into law-abiding, working members of their communities can be complete. But he CalGang database is a permanent scar that no laser can begin to erase and it seals the door shut against true redemption. Heartbreaking.

I agree that one should know if they are on a list with the police after serving time. Sex offenders know full well they are on a list, and know the rules required to stay out of jail. Gang members that have served their time deserve to know these requirements as well. No one in the public deserves to see these lists held by the police. Not sure why everyone thinks they deserve this information. However, Hussle was not the choir boy this article tries to portray. The shootings at his performances, around his funeral, etc. all prove otherwise. Just because he was black and owned a store and stayed in the neighborhood doesn't mean he's an innocent. At the same time, we cannot assume his guilt just because of whom he associated with. Every time we have a break in, or car theft, or smash and grab, or murder of a family.... every time we also read that the perpetrator has a long rap list, and is on parole or was just released from parole. Every time. So excuse me if my sympathies lie with society at large vs. these violent predators that for some reason are the poster child for racism. Not buying.

certainly no one should be listed in databases past their legal limit as the article claims, but then we have hyperbole like this: "Even as a gang expert who has testified in court, Dr. Leap said she had no access to the CalGang database: “Law enforcement controls it. And here’s the critical thing: No one ever makes it off that list. No one.”" If she cannot see the database, how can she claim "No one ever makes it off that list. No one."? History has long documentation of gang members leaving prison and hitting the street with their old gang or finding new criminal associates. Have some prisoners changed? most certainly Can it be difficult to know if everyone you meet is NOT an ex-con? absolutely Does that mean the Database or its' use is racial? Not in the least. If you did the crime, it is up to YOU to do the hard work to regain the public trust. To earn a place back in society. Sitting in a cell and lifting weights for a few years earns you nothing but so many people today are demanding a free pass for those criminals we have had to house, feed and medically care for and I for one have a problem with that demand.

Talking about gangs.. The Democrats and Republicans are the worst most violent and destructive gangs in American.. and all their little cohorts as well.. all these politics are greedy killers who want absolute control over everything and everyone...

What is one to expect, when enough of the nation thinks Trump is making America great. Soundbites, celebrity and twitter rants are sufficient for education to too many millions of Americans. Hail the loudest and most audacious over the nuanced, reasoned and civilized.

Was the man arrested for shooting Mr. Hussle, Eric Holder, also on the gang list?

there was tupac . . . then there was biggie . . . then there was tentacion xxx . . . now nipsey . . . does anyone wonder if these adulatees of the rap genre actually have a life expectancy beyond, say, 29?

It's almost unbelievable that Mr. Lathan was only released after the extraordinary intervention of the media. Without that he would still be languishing in jail. The system of parole and violation is scarily reminiscent of Jim Crow laws against vagrancy that were used to incarcerate black men in the south. Lawmakers need to understand how this current system contributes to the mass incarceration and criminalization of black men and aggressively dismantle it.

"“Gangs are the great exception” to the trend away from incarceration, said Jorja Leap, a gang expert at the University of California at Los Angeles." Thank God gang members are still thrown into jail. That's the only thing that will destroy gangs and their cancerous effect on neighborhoods across the country. Lock 'em up. Absolutely lock them up.

These "gang databases" are an outrageous violation of due process and democratic rights. I recall sitting in a Houston courtroom for truants listening to a cop explain the "criteria": a nickname, baggy pants, heavy makeup (for women), tattoos, 'known associates', missing school, and so on. It pretty much covered every youth fashion among Black and Latino youth. There was no hearing, no evidence, no appeal. Of course every single of the 100 kids were Latino and Black. These working class communities live under a police state which criminalizes them in the millions. The most terrifying gangs are the "Blue Thugs" and the "Black Robes" that put millions of millions through the dehumanizing meat grinder of the prison system.

People are missing the point. The issue is a) How does someone get off a gang member database if he/she is truly no longer in a gang? b) How are other people supposed to know who is or is not on such a gang list to meet a parole requirement of not associating with a gang member? There are a number of former gang members who make a living as counselors and work to get other people out of gangs. If these former gang members are still on a gang list, they can't be approached by advice for someone on parole. Clearly, the existing system is filled with Catch-22's. In a free country, people should be able to know if they are or are not in such a database and what requirements need to be met to get off the list. This does not mean going soft on crime. It means having a logical and just system.

Nipsey Hussle proudly touted his gang membership up until the day he died. It's probably WHY he died. His "community building" amounted to opening a clothing store and buying property. Meanwhile, he threatened enemies, rapped lyrics that glorified gangs and gang violence, and generally lived and celebrated the gang lifestyle. This was not a gang member who became a teacher or a doctor. Celebrating him is like celebrating a Mafia leader who helped out his neighborhood sometimes and had a "heart of gold." Great, but he was still a Mafia member.

Considering the circumstances of his murder and the subsequent shootings around his memorial and funeral is it really unreasonable that his name remained on a gang database?

It is unclear how any of this information disproves that 'Nipsey' is an active or semi-active gang member. The retaliation murders that occurred after his death reek strongly of street gang activity. That fact that 100% of the victims of the original storefront shooting were known gang members seems to further support the case against 'Nipsey' and his newfound benevolence.

So, most everyone commenting here thinks Nipsey (or whatever his gang name was) had turned his life around. But. He was still a rapper, still promoting rapper values, which do not value the lives of anyone but those few groupies whom he collects and then throws away. Culture? Nipsey? Equivalency? You must be kidding.

This case illustrates an inherent problem with databases such as gang lists or TSA watch lists. They deprive people placed on them of not only the rights directly associated with the list (association or flying), but also the right to due process. The combination of secrecy and lack of oversight lets just about any agent or officer arbitrarily place anyone on a list. The person then has no way to even discover who put them on the list or why they were put there, let alone challenge their presence on the list. With TSA watch lists, a person can't even know definitively whether they're on a list because that's "sensitive secure information." There is also the inevitable bureaucratic tendency to measure and reward officials for adding names. Accuracy matters less than the growth rate of the lists, which proves "effectiveness" and justifies funding. The situation will surely become worse when proprietary or classified algorithms can place people on lists without human intervention. That will remove the last vestiges of accountability for agencies and officials, who can just blame the algorithm for the inevitable embarrassing miscarriage of justice. It also means anyone can be arbitrarily and irrevocably deprived of fundamental rights without anyone even knowing why. Particularly after 9/11, the "security mentality" seems to be that securing the Homeland requires the deliberate destruction of what makes America America.

Many influential people the black community don't care how someone got to the level of Mr. Hussle, they only care that he did. All too often, the means to a given end are irrelevant.

Hussle joined the Crips when he was in his mid-teens. There were multiple shooting incidents at or in front of his concert venues. His killer, Eric Holder, had multiple arrests for violent crimes, including a guilty plea for battery against a woman with whom he had a child, and a no contest plea to felony possession of deadly weapons. Apparently Holder and Hussle had some kind of relationship that gave rise to a dispute so serious that Holder allegedly murdered Hussle over it. Seems to me Mr. Lathan, if he were displaying good sense, would have kept his distance. But good sense probably didn't get him into the situation in which he ended up.

This seems to be a problem with government databases. Once in, in forever. And no mechanism to find out if you're in a database, and no mechanism to request removal from a database. As storage has become essentially free, there is no incentive to save space either.

No society should have the freedom to categorize other humans. To label, to brand, to ostracize other humans in a decent society is not a decent society. 93% of all crime goes undetected CRIME DOES PAY We have all broken, trampled on, and laughed at the RULE OF LAW. If you have not been caught you are a good decent innocent human: you are in essence a good person. This equality: a few men decide for all of society what is right and what is wrong. A government that can chain you owns you.

From the article: "a database of gang members has long been seen in minority communities as a way for the state to criminalize young black and Latino men." This statement needs clarification. Which laws which prioritize enforcement for minorities? This sounds like more fake victimization of known criminals. Gangs are dangerous criminal enterprises; gang members are not 'victims'.

Perhaps this tragedy gives credence to the reflections that it's time for a change. Thanks for your life's testimony, Nipsey.

I hope there is aggressive gang policing. If not, we are all in trouble.

Maybe people don't make it off the list because some of the gangs operate basically like and as a terrorist organization.

Probation is often given instead of any jail time. It is the only sanction imposed on many guilty individuals. We are far too lenient on violent criminals and far too harsh on many other, non-violent, crimes.

The lack of accountability and transparency related to these databases--Chicago also has a gang database that's been more in the news recently--rivals that of the famed "No Fly List" maintained by the federal government. The difference? There is a process for determining if you're on the No Fly List and trying to get off of it. Many people--mostly African American or Latinx--are added to these lists without their knowledge. Police behavior toward these individuals--at a traffic stop, for example--may be influenced by their being on the list. To the best of the public's knowledge, these lists are not pruned and additions are not scrutinized. There are not "risk levels" nor publicly known policies and practices governing their use. Their constitutionality is questionable. Oh, and we are all complicit in this: our tax dollars at work. We need to take a stand against criminalizing people because they are dark complected and live in under-resourced communities. It's bad enough when the "system" is built to support others, but far worse when it is actively hostile to the least advantaged among us.

The insidious part about what happened to Mr. Lathan is that, in California, the only due process he receives as a parolee charged with violating parole amounts to a court hearing in front of a judge only. This hearing has a lower standard of proof than a jury trial. Trial courts and appellate courts routinely rubber stamp these proceedings. Even if the violation is dismissed, people in this situation generally spend weeks or months in custody fighting them. Here's what someone in his situation does not get: 1) bail; 2) a right to a speedy hearing; 3) a jury trial; 4) a reasonable doubt standard; 5) the ability to easily discharge from supervision even after very long stretches of good behavior. You get the idea. And yes, the taxpayers are paying to keep people in this situation locked up for lengthy stretches. Mr. Lathan is quite lucky the media and the community forced the issue here. Without that spotlight, he'd likely have spent a couple more months in custody even if he was found not to be in violation. I once saw a guy violated for simply being a passenger in a car that was pulled over by police. His violation: not letting his supervising officer know that it happened. That's it. The trial court violated him and the appellate court let it happen. So it goes here.

It makes sense that gang membership remains on one's record, as is also the case with sex offenders. Gang affiliation is not an annual subscription, it's a lifetime commitment. People make a choice to join a gang and go through hazing rituals. Even if they're allowed to leave that choice should not be forgotten or mitigated in any way. Yes, Hussle turned his life around, but he still was accountable for his past decisions.