These punishments are beyond barbaric. You couldn’t pay me to go to this country.
3
“The world has gone way past times when witches were burned, homosexuals castrated or adulterers branded”
The world? I don’t think so.
“In Papua New Guinea, witch hunts, torture and murder are reactions to the modern world”, south China morning post, march 30, 2019.
“A Sydney doctor has been banned from practicing medicine after he prescribed a young man a "cure" for his homosexuality — chemical castration.” Pri, sept 2012
“Among other Arab countries, the penalty in Algeria, Bahrain, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia and Syria is imprisonment – up to 10 years in the case of Bahrain.” Guardian, June 2016. Not quite castration, but not much fun either.
“About eight-in-ten Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan (82% each) endorse the stoning of people who commit adultery; 70% of Muslims in Jordan and 56% of Nigerian Muslims share this view. “ pew research centre, 2011.
Adultery was illegal in South Korea until 2015. “Some 53,000 South Koreans had been indicted and 35,000 jailed for the crime since the government started tracking such figures in 1985.” The Atlantic, 2015.
By “world” I guess the author means the US. A common error.
3
Stoning people to death for homosexuality murder. The Sultan of Brunei is leading a conspiracy to murder. The civilized countries of the world should apply their criminal law to the Sultan extraterritorially. If he sets foot in any country other than his own, he should be arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced to life in a maximum security prison. No diplomatic immunity!
5
Such hypocrites.. the entire family flaunt all the rules of Islam, especially the Sultan who has prostitutes flown from all over the world every time he travels to one of his many foreign estates ..
4
"Besides the barbarity of the penalties, there is the danger that the law could nudge neighboring Islamic giants Malaysia and Indonesia toward tightening their own national or regional versions of Shariah laws targeting homosexuals. Conservative Muslim politicians in both countries were quick to voice their support for Brunei’s law. "
Muslims say Islam is a religion of peace. Muslims criticize non-Muslims for not being able to see the difference between extremists and average, peace-loving, inclusive Muslims. Muslims say there is no coercion in Islam but Iranian activists are jailed for speaking out about enforced hijab and there is nothing from the Muslim community about Khashoggi's messy murder....Mixed messages is an understatement
5
Do as I say, not as I do.
When will 98% of the population of the world rise up and stop this nonsense?
Enough is enough!
3
Time to get them a seat on the UN Human Rights Council.
Brunei should be shunned by the world until they join the 21st century.
6
Our drug dealers are not good people. Let's try harder to get off oil.
4
The poor souls of Brunei...former British colonies cursed with black gold rarely fare well.
I would love to see Brunei run out of oil
1
Exactly, so much hypocrisy from the Brunei Sultan. I believe the royal family is not subject to the Sharia law. As the TIMES suggested, the bigger concern is that the radical Muslims in neighboring Malaysia, Indonesia and even Southern Philippines, will try to push the Sharia law in their countries.
1
Simple--talk is cheap. Action: Nobody should buy oil from Brunei anymore. Then maybe His Royal Majesty's subjects will give him a taste of his own medicine.
2
So with the election of Trump, and now Netanyahu, such people feel empowered to oppress.
1
This is the same country that contributed between $1 million and $5 million to the Clinton Foundation according to a NYT article in 2012. It is an awful country it terms of human rights but why then did it donate?
Whoever threatens innocent people with death by stoning forfeits the moral right to life until the threat is withdrawn.
1
Not a word from Trump.
1
I wonder what the relationship is like between this sultan and our brutal-dictator-loving Trump...
4
NYT is an odd source for lecturing other countries about their hypocrisy and barbaric practices.
NYT promoted an illegal war against Iraq based on the argument that it was developing WMDs. US has for long possessed enough WMDs to destroy the whole world several times over. What is worse is that USA fabricated the evidence of Iraq's WMD program.
Yes stoning for adultery is barbaric, but what about an illegal war promoted on false pretenses that killed, maimed and displaced millions of human beings?
Need I say more.
1
Another reminder that religion is not the place to seek good morals.
9
Just yesterday I heard a response from Pete Buttigieg addressed to Mike Pence which sums the whole matter up.
Sultan, if you're listening …
“That’s the thing I wish the Mike Pences of the world would understand. That if you got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me — your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.”
1
Well we pressure our representatives especially the GOP to stop buying oil and whatever from these barbaric individuals. We have been fighting a war for 17 years 3k people died on 9/11. Hollywood needs to stand with the actor George Clooney and hurt them financially and treat them as the monsters they are.
I wish we could save the people who they decide to stone. How sick are these hateful men.
2
I don’t know that you can group infidelity with homosexuality as blameless behavior. Of course it’s not worthy of stoning, but it’s not blameless.
Seems to me that some holier-than-though Christians need to be reminded that burning Christian heretics and non-believers alive was an approved way of disposing them as a menace not that many years ago.
This is not scientific but to the point of the article: take time to Google images of women in the royal family, the Sultan’s wife and daughters-in-law, particularly the latter. You will never see more privileged group of visibly unhappy women...especially on their wedding days. It isn’t just the stoning, it is also the enforced, desiccated, intellectual and spiritual bondage.
3
Religious affiliations are the original political parties and theocracy is nothing more than prolonged campaign rhetoric... and we wonder why religious leaders seem hypocritical... it's because they don't believe what they are selling but they do believe in the power of fear... and what is every religion but essentially one long fearful list of things that are going to happen to you if you don't do what the religion says...
I still cannot believe I have to try and rationalize not believing in fairy tales.
3
Many years ago, one of my co-workers resigned to go work for the Sultan. She was going to replace one of the two women whose job it is to keep his plane always at the ready. She would be working in Long Beach, CA, very close to where the Learjet headquarters were.
She later told me, among other things, that he always had dozens of attractive young women with him on his trips to and from Southern California.
I wonder if that's allowed by Shariah laws?
2
Yes, the sultan is a terrible autocrat who wants to punish people harshly. However, Muslims are in favour of harsh punishments, so I wonder if Bruneians support these policies. Maybe the ‘ol sultan is just giving the people want they want.
“About eight-in-ten Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan (82% each) endorse the stoning of people who commit adultery; 70% of Muslims in Jordan and 56% of Nigerian Muslims share this view. Muslims in Pakistan and Egypt are also the most supportive of whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery; 82% in Pakistan and 77% in Egypt favor making this type of punishment the law in their countries, as do 65% of Muslims in Nigeria and 58% in Jordan. When asked about the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Jordan (86%), Egypt (84%) and Pakistan (76%) say they would favor making it the law; in Nigeria, 51% of Muslims favor and 46% oppose it. In contrast, Muslims in Lebanon, Turkey and Indonesia largely reject the notion that harsh punishments should be the law in their countries. “ Pew research centre, 2011.
1
If there has been documented evidence against some of the royal family and friends in Brunei then it should be published for all to see. It is not enough to make useless threats. Why would this evidence not be in this newspaper right now?
By buying and using "their" (it's really everyone's) oil, we're not only supporting barbarism, we're also destroying the planet. I haven't driven an automobile since the early nineties. You don't have to either.
Boycott his oil. Deny his family the right to enter any western nation. Place an embargo around his nation to prevent oil from leaving. To paraphrase another member of royalty; "Let him drink oil."
This decision is clearly not good for Brunei's economy as a small country that will increasingly need to rely on foreign investment as its oil reserves decline. However, it is likely driven by the Sultan's desire to legitimize his rule further (and perhaps to do penance for past misdeeds of his own).
But before everyone gets all uptight and self-righteous about this, it's important to remember that Brunei has not executed ANYONE by ANY METHOD since the 1950s! Criminal laws are VERY loosely enforced there. How does that progressive track record compare to Western countries?
As someone who lived and worked in Brunei for several years, I can personally attest to the fact that it is a far more peaceful place than most American cities and its people are more forward-looking, kind and progressive than those in many midwestern towns in the US!
It's a bad political decision and doesn't look good (and to be clear is the decision of one man rather than that of Bruneian citizens), but in practice it is much less of a big deal than everyone is hysterically making it out to be....
2
Stop buying oil. It is possible today. My Volkswagon eGolf gets 145 miles to the charge and is reasonably priced. Solar prices have fallen. I have a roof full for which I paid nothing down. I pay $42 a month and get a credit for the power I push into the grid. Use U.S. derived natural gas. We have plenty. Let's put these oil fiefdoms out of business - while saving the world. The revolution starts with the consumer.
6
A much more efficient way to protest than the hotel boycott:
Brunei is the last British military base in the Far East. The British Army contingent stationed there - one Ghurka battalion - has played an active role crushing an insurgency against the Sultan in 1963. They are protecting the autocratic regime of the Sultan. Britain in effect bears a direct responsibility for enabling the barbaric punishments threatened by the new laws.
British troops need to stop defending the Sultan and should leave Brunei.
6
I think our own leader would do these things if he could do without repercussions , he certainly leans in that direction.
15
I sure hope that everyone responsible for this law is prohibited by everyone in the slightly more civilized world around them in whatever means is at their disposal.... Why let any of their rulers leave their country for example? Sanctions should of course be applied. If they want Stone Age culture rules then they should live with Stone Age technology too. It should be forbidden to export anything to that country.
8
Every single religion eventually become a tool for Rich and powerful people for herding rest of us.
With renaissance we break this system but we didn't erase from the human society.
I believe still one of the most effective tool.
3
It's always obscene when autocrats lay down the law for their "subjects," but live their own lives according to their desires.
But to expect the morally bankrupt "kingdoms" of wealthy sultans whose wealth derives from an accident of birth--they just happened to live on an ocean of oil--to change is a futile exercise.
86
@ChristineMcM
Wonder how much money he shells out to keep peddling Trump's lie that climate change is a hoax. Renewables will make his oil worthless
3
The moral vacuum left behind in the wake of the corrupt presidency of Donald J. Trump, in which not one once ounce of global moral leadership is being exercised, leads to the brazen rise of despotism that we are seeing now around the world. The "Sultan" would never have done this prior to the tacit approval afforded by nefarious characters like the American president. We are witnessing a historic undermining of civility and human rights at the hands of draconian oligarchs and downright corrupt forces bent on crushing democracy both here and abroad.
18
@Tim Prendergast The Sultan's behavior has absolutely nothing to do with President Trump. Your remark "The "Sultan" would never have done this prior to the tacit approval afforded by nefarious characters like the American president" is completely without basis.
Times readers, many of whom appear educated, need to get over their hysteria about President Trump. Trump is not the cause of all the world's problems, many of which existed before Trump's arrival and will persist after he has left office.
8
Yes, hitting their hotels draws attention to their barbaric laws, however, this article doesn’t state what really runs their economy which is crude oil production. It also doesn’t list who the primary buyers are for their oil. So, here are their primary buyers:
Japan 27.8%
South Korea 12.4%
Thailand 11.5%
Malaysia 11.3%
India 9.3%
Singapore 7.7%
Switzerland 5%
China 4.7% (2017)
Wouldn’t it have been nice to include the real reason they have this money? Where is Japan on all this? How about South Korea? Are they going to take a stand on this? Calling Switzerland!.
Seems like calling out the countries who benefit from this would be a much more effective way to end human rights abuses of this vicious country.
16
Imagine what would happen in these regions of the world if oil was no longer the economic lynchpin because we had fusion or other forms of renewable energy?
Their relevance (specifically the ruling class) is from the rest of the world’s addiction to fossil fuels.
8
Back in the mid 90s we went to Cartier to pick up the wedding rings we had ordered. It was a few days before Christmas. As we began to be waited on, we were informed that we had to leave the store. Many apologies, but we had to leave immediately. As we left we noticed several Rolls Royce limos parked outside.
We returned a few days later to complete the transaction and when we asked what had happened, we were told that the Sultan of Brunei had come by to purchase some jewelry and demanded that the store be emptied.
5
Organized Religion, again !
11
I would strongly recommend that the royal family punish apply these barbarian laws on itself first for all past and present behaviors and excesses before imposing this medieval punishments on their subjects.
That these things are happening in 21st Century is an absolute shame for the whole world! It is stuff like this that gives Islam and Islamic world a bad name.
5
Hyprocrisy!? What about the hyprocrisy in your own country and mine. The inequality is horrendous, the justice system is so unjust to the many, the homeless crisis is a disgrace. Now some of these people feel it much harder than what my group feels. A homeless women was ran over on the freeway (which yes she should not of been there) and then ran over again several times.
Many of these people feel atrocities everyday in this country. Children go hungry and how many children of refuges have been taken from their parents and died but most in who knows where. The people (we the people, our government) who took them don't.
Medicare For All - 3 opinion people you describe other opinion people for the NYT who pretty much want status quo giving the rest of us a few crumbs. Why do I even read this paper? I never know what to believe and surely not you new originators. I guess just to hear the status quo gang and what they are saying to thwart the will of what people need and want.
3
While Brunei's are extraordinarily crude and harsh, there is no shortage of neurotic if not psychotic compulsions toward greed and power abroad in the world. And it will get worse with the disruption and angst of accelerating climate change.
At a time when the world in general and their own populations most need leadership, sobriety, compassion and wise and good action from the United States, the UK and Western democracy in general, what are they getting? More of the same of the mentally ill greed and power trip, accompanied by increasing chaos, much of it deliberately sown.
C'mon, drink up the Champagne! The band is still playing on the Titanic! Let them eat cake! I've got mine, Jack!...
3
This is no doubt terrible for the people who are punished in Brunei. How do the numbers stack up against the number of people who will be grievously injured or will die from climate change? Trump and the GOP in Congress will cause much more harm through their denial of science and willingness to kowtow to fossil fuel interests. Recall that the US alone has withdrawn from the Paris accord. Brunei is a cruel outlier but the US has relinquished its moral authority and has no business casting stones.
3
Where are the Muslim nations like Turkey, S.Arabia, Pakistan who are always screaming about treatment of their brothers in non-muslim countries ?
9
@Batuk Sanghvi S. Arabia and Pakistan are both members of the UN Human Rights Council. But they are too busy passing resolutions against you-know-who.
There is NO brutality, injustice, barbarity which US - President & Congress, companies, citizen-consumers - will not tolerate, forgive, ignore so long as the savages keep dumping OIL into our economy.
3
We don’t buy oil from Brunei. Here’s who does:
Japan 27.8%, South Korea 12.4%, Thailand 11.5%, Malaysia 11.3%, India 9.3%, Singapore 7.7%, Switzerland 5%, China 4.7% (2017)
Are they going to step up and face this behavior?
3
one might assume if Mr Trump was a resident of Brunei, his life or, at least, one or two of his limbs might be in jeopardy.
Probably not since gold talks to gold as hypocrites talk to each other w/ clear consciences.
i can only pray for mercy for the USA & the the the people under the rising autocratic despots that Mr Trump validates & defends.
in 1972 i voted in Boston & by 1973 - after Watergate broke, sported a bumper sticker that read: "don't blame me - i'm from Massachusetts ". Massachusetts was the only state (o California) to reject Nixon.
i am 70 y/o & tend towards political despair more now than then.
times have changed but mr trump (non capitalization intended) has no respect outside of his perceived base.
i grew up in the late 50's & see all the prejudice against "the others" not only returning but encouraged by the President.
he shames me.
6
Are these offenses of human rights made more egregious in Brunei, by of the net worth of the lawmaker? Is there a connection which justifies any confusion on that point?
OK, so how is Brunei any different than ANY other Islamic country in the way it treat its marginalized subjects. Yeah, that's what I thought too. Not much. So, what to do. Until you're ready, as a civilized society, to put on the concerted full court press, you make the sad admission that it's Brunei's business. As profit is involved, and as the world always values profit over people ? I'm not holding my breath on that 'until' day to show up.
6
The United States of America has no moral authority to condemn Brunei when it executes prisoners in an objectively flawed system (150 death row inmates have been exonerated), tolerates bigotry under the veil of "religious freedom", punishes minorities (from children to adults) unfairly and with impunity and has withdrawn from the UN Human Rights Council. And then there are arcane laws inspired by religious zealots that condemn basic science relegate women to 3rd class status.
The United States government, chosen by a minority of the population in a hopelessly flawed election system, is more closely aligned with autocratic despots who deny fundamental civil rights than it wants to believe.
5
@Bullmoose
Could not agree more and I see you live in France, which is my intention soon.
In spite of their problems, they still have a functioning democracy.
3
I agree that what Brunei is effectively sanctioning is inhumane and nothing short of savage and uncivilized.
The question I do have is while we condemn this, how come so many of us NYT included overlook that homosexuality is illegal in say, Dubai or Singapore?
11
Most of the countries that have Islam has their official religion point out the religious scripts verbatim to apply various punishment(s), stoning as one of them. Recently, ISIS and Taliban were and are doing similar things, they consider gay, adultery, apostasy as punishable by death. Western religions have similar proscribing but is not practiced due to democracy, human evolution, progressive beliefs and so forth.
5
Gay people exist--they always have and they always will. Biblical and Koranic condemnation of homosexuality would not be necessary if homosexuality weren't a natural human variation. Punishing a natural human variation is barbaric.
On the other hand, sultans are a human invention. They provide no particular benefit to the world. They are, in essence, pernicious parasites. If there's anything that we should purge ourselves of here, it's the sultan.
(N.B. most parasites, from a health perspective, actually benefit the host, so I don't mean to impugn parasites by comparing them to the sultan. I certainly want to maintain a friendly relationship with my own.)
16
As long as el trumpo is allowed to sit in DC, he will play with Russia and China. He won't let America do anything strong. Any sanctions imposed by Europe will fail when China and Russia override Europe's efforts.
For our nation to stop such anti-human behaviors, we must rid ourselves of the deranged clown who, AGAIN!, wants to jail children.
3
The one simple maxim that explains everything is Money. Money seems to trump morality - its the only way to explain the collective shrug at every atrocity. I assume there will be a correction sometime in the future, but we need some people with morality to get rich very soon.
2
Yep, and notice the reaction from world leaders, waving a handkerchief at the Sultan of Brunei and then in effect telling people "don't worry about it, he is doing this to please Islamic radicals he is afraid of, it is all PR, etc". Then we had the response from supposedly liberal Muslims, who instead of condemning the Sultan and the radical Muslims who bring shame to their faith, they blame it on 'western colonialism and their secularism" for radical islam, rather than firmly putting the blame on those who promote it and calling their ideas abhorrent and wrong.
The reality is no one is going to do one thing about this, the conservatives in the US, especially the religious right, love this because it is the kind of law they would love to impose on the US (do yourselves a favor, folks, look up Christian Dominionism, what it means and how many people believe in it), to the point they will ignore that Christians in Brunei could be put to death for apostasy. More importantly, the religion to conservatives these days isn't human rights, never has been, it is the religion of keeping fossil fuels as some sort of sacred trust, fully supported by the idiot Evangelical Christians who sadly dominate things in this country, thanks to the GOP and Trump. They both deny climate change and while demonizing Muslims, ignore the reality that fossil fuels, specifically oil, is what supports and allows people like the Sultan of Dung and ISIS to do what they do.
9
@music observer I wonder if there are Christians in Brunei and if the Sultan is so clueless that he would put any of them to death? If he is, THEN those Dominionists will be heard from and something might change with the U.S. attitude toward Brunei. But unless that happens...put no money on anything changing U.S. foreign policy wise.
Right. Brutality, human rights violations, and slaughter of innocents occurs, in part, because the world looks the other way. Whether the excuse is that the country is too small or the situation complex (needing their oil, metals, laborers, land for an air base) or a sense of powerlessness, the rest of us bear some complicity in such behavior.
Even if the country is small, its citizens are human beings who have a right to life, a right to be who they are, and a right to expect the forces of good and justice in the world to refuse to let them be abused and violated, especially by their own government.
132
@Anne-Marie Hislop
You are absolutely right.
Sharia law is an infamy inflicted upon women and the LGBTQ. It has only been allowed to persist because we refuse to do something about the way women are treated in places like Saudia Arabia etc. With Trump at the helm, I feel true despair about the future of our world.
Say what you want about Israel, and the treatment of Palestinians, but when I was last in Tel Aviv I saw gay men walking hand-in-hand, people of African origins, and women wearing the veil all sharing a bus. Ninety miles away, it was reported gay men were being thrown from buildings for sport.
32
@Gwe
Sharia is not so much the problem. It is the way it interpreted and applied. Sharia itself is simply religious law, like the Torah and the laws of numerous other religions.
9
@Anne-Marie Hislop
No. The sharia is a specific component of Sunni Islam as real as the Ten Commandments.
7
Isn’t this the same system the rich want everywhere? Conservatives here condemn infidelity, homosexuality, and abortion. Meanwhile they practice all of these things behind gilded doors.
We can condemn Brunei, but maybe we should clean up our own country first.
11
@Covert Being rich has nothing to do with it! This is just a barbaric leader imposing his moral standards and perverted punishments on innocent people. And there are plenty of rich people who are not conservative. Save your class warfare rhetoric for someplace else.
I understand that in this country those hotels listed are doing wonderfully. Can't we just kick them out? Apparently some Americans or visitors couldn't be bothered with a boy cot.
2
We all need to work very hard to get off fossil fuels. Let them eat oil.
8
Dear NY Times,
What you have hit on here.is the basic difference between Sunni and Shia Islam.
"Sunni" means Traditional or Orthodox. The Sunni believe that all of Gods laws are written, and cannot be changed by Humans -- to do so is seen as the highest sin. They thus believe that what is needed is a strong Khalifa with a merciless sword who will apply the prescribed punishments for any violations of those laws and prevent the Muslim Umma from wandering off the straight and narrow path.
There is thus no room for interpretation in Sunni jurisprudence, and thus no room for interpreters -- No-one is wiser than God, and the more unyieldingly the Khalifa enforces Gid's law, the more respect, fear, and riches he deserves. They respect the Khalifa as.God's agent on earth and view their clergy as a class of journeymen or tradesmen leading prayers, burying the dead and other such tasks. There are no "Imams" in Sunni Islam in the same way there are in Shia Islam.
Shia Islam was invented in 1501 by the Persian Emperor Shah Ismail the First, to replace the Arabic clergy in his empire in the same way that Anglican Christianity was invented by Henry the Eighth to rid his kingdom of the Roman Catholic Church. He incorporated various Christian and Zoroastrian and Jewish beliefs into it to bring in everyone. For example, Shias believe that Jesus is the Messiah, was born to a virgin Mary, and will reappear on the Day of Judgement at the right hand of God.
9
@Anon Amous
Continued...
The core difference of Shia and Sunni Islam.is that the Shia believe that God's laws as defined in the Sharia should evolve continuously over time. For example Saudi Wahhabis Sunnis believe women should not own property, inherit, sign contracts or leave the country without their Male "guardian's" consent. Shias have no such restrictions.
Shias believe in Imam Hussein's teqching that the wisest among them -- as determined by consensus -- should re-interpret laws, hence the emergence of very powerful Shia religious leaders or Imams -- Khomeini, Khamenei, Sistani, Sadr, etc.-- and weak, now.all deposed, Shia kings.
Shias oppose Sunnis -- particularly the hard-core Wahhabi Sunnis of Saudi Arabia -- because of their archaic laws and their brutality in upholding the Sharia. Sunnis oppose the Shia for second-guessing and over-ruling Gid's law and disrespecting his divine representative, the King. Shias pay little attention to Muhammad,.except as a founding father of their religion -- in the same way that George Washington is respected in the US as a founding father without mentioning his slave-ownership. They take their Imams -- especially Imam Hussein far more seriously. Sunnis view Hussein as a heretic and the other Shia saints as provincial preachers with twisted views.
I hope that.makes it all more.clear. there are 2 Islams.
In 2012, the well regarded Pew Research Center conducted an extensive world-wide survey of some of the core beliefs of the Muslim world. This is probably the most up-to-date information on this subject; it might not be politically feasible to repeat the survey today. The survey is easy to find:
https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
Most Muslims believe that Sharia should be the official law of their countries; many believe in severe corporal punishment, and a majority believe that homosexuality is morally wrong. The large majority do not accept suicide bombing, but a minority do. Interested people should read the survey report, which is nuanced and difficult to summarize.
The overwhelming majority of Muslims who have immigrated to this country through legal means, many of whom have become citizens, do not believe that Sharia should become law in the US, and do not accept corporal punishment. American Muslims are every bit as American, and accepting of American values, as everyone else. But worldwide, things are less clear, and the results of this survey do raise legitimate concerns. Thus, it is not clear that carefully considered restrictions on Muslim immigration is as unreasonable as many liberals believe; this is worthy of rational, dispassionate discussion.
The events in Brunei, and other strongholds of religious extremism, both Muslim and otherwise, are scary, and should be opposed by the world at large.
6
Since Brunei is a peaceful, paternalistic mini-country that hasn't executed anyone in years, it is hard to imagine such medieval cruelties actually being applied. It is also hard to imagine it influencing Malaysia and Indonesia. Some more conservative states (Aceh, Kelantan) have sharia law (although caning is the most notable old punishment) & it is from these places that approval is heard. Over the years, the Sultan has been catering more and more to the harsher Islamic elements in his society (which he worries about more than the NYT), but let's hope it remains more rhetoric than substance. The substance doesn't fit with Bruneian - or more generally - Malay society.
2
One more failure of the British. Brunei should be taken over and the oil wealth distributed throughout Borneo. The West discovered the oil, developed the oil, created the market for it and none of that was the effort or creativity of the Sultan or his ancestors. Why we gift unworthy potentates worldwide with riches created by the west is beyond me. Allah did not decree that the Sultan and his family would be fabulously rich. The British did. What a failure. If they were to grant independence they should have established a national wealth fund for all of Borneo or all their possessions in the area. The US should have done that with Saudi Arabia and the Muslim world as well. There is no justification for hundreds of millions of starving Muslims throughout the world with the resources they have.
5
@as
The rationale that you employ to share the riches of Brunei and Saudi Arabia to all the world's Muslims can also be used to compel the U.S. and Europe to share their wealth with all the world's people.
And do not forget the recent 7 million dollar purchase of an apartment at NYC Trump Tower by the daughter of the President of the Congo. Swindling is de riguer for these types of kleptomaniacs. Never enough. Most likely paid for by our tax payer's contributions to poor nations. Miami is also the capitol of excess stolen monies from these third world thieves.
4
Many comments here ignore the fact that we're moving closer to them afaster than they're moving towards us.
3
Honestly, this article is misplaced. They world in the by-line the sets off red flags is "imposes".
There is nothing imposed here. I know this his hard for New York liberals to fathom, bt the people of Brunei want this. In fact the reversion to Sharia law was seen as a concession to conservative made by the Sultan
1
@Emily. How would anyone know what the people actually think when any questioning of the Sultan or MIB is heavily suppressed? Most Bruneians I know see the hypocrisy in the Royal family but understand the cost of trying to change things. Brunei is a wonderful place in many ways with fantastic people but it remains in a State of Emergency from the 1960's and is a police state.
2
What does the palace room count have to do with it? This is no more or less outrageous if it were ordered from a tribal headman's one room hut. I don't appreciate what seems like an attempt to stoke my outrage with descriptions of lavish royal lifestyles.
3
Thank you NYT for this excellent editorial showing the kind of leadership we need from our media. The violation of basic human rights by a government should never be subject to cultural relativism or "respect". Murder is murder and should always be condemned; same with mutilation. Our bodies are our own to control and share, with consent, as we see fit, where no harm is done. Pleasure is pleasure. Love is love.
9
One simple thing every freedom and justice loving citizen can do: rethink travel (especially vacation) plans to places like the Emirates, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, obviously Brunei, etc., i.e. places where you can be jailed just for being gay or having a drink in public, and where, as a woman you have absolutely no rights. Btw the courts and prisons in those countries are wonderful places guaranteeing an unforgettable vacation.
7
The implementation of these laws have more to do with politics than religion. The Sultan is very popular and respected in Brunei but the Crown Prince is not. These laws are there to protect the Royal family and the sycophants as the Sultan gets ready to abdicate and pass power to his son. The economy of Brunei has been suffering for years and it is not getting better despite massive Chinese investment. Their oil/gas reserves are quickly dwindling. There might well be rough times ahead for the Abode of Peace and these laws are to protect the powerful.
Boycotting hotels you will never stay in is easy but there are a lot of other companies making a lot of money from the Royals. It is easy to find out who the main oil company and oil service companies are or the company that keeps the Sultan's many jets in the air. Maybe the British royals and many Hollywood 'royals' can stop partying with them too.
6
Let's stop be - Hypocrites! We support these barbaric rulers while condemning their actions. We support the likes of Muslim Saudi Royals but turn a blind eye when one our own journalists is grotesquely murdered in their own consulate by one of them. We support the decadent Brunei Muslim Royals by offering them prime real estate where our and their own elite nonchalantly indulge. We are racists when it comes to ordinary Muslims but the Muslim Royals. We are bloody hypocrites! We have no moral ground to preach - even in the form of condemnation.
9
“. . . ‘this is the way we do it’ is no longer a viable excuse for cruelty and barbarism anywhere.”
I am truly touched by the NYTimes concern for all of those potential victims of Brunei’s arbitrary and hypocritical embrace of a cruel, sadistic scheme of religious laws. There are just over 400,000 citizens in that country. Even if five percent of its citizens were unfortunate enough to be subjected to its punishments (highly unlikely), that’s 20,000 potential victims, some of whom might be killed.
Contrast the Sultan of Brunei with the dictator of China. Xi has rounded up, without even the due process that Sharia law might offer, over a million Uyghurs — China’s own citizens — and put them in concentration camps. That’s several times the population of Brunei. Without question, some Uyghurs died during the roundup, and some have died in those camps. Doesn’t that merit a steady drumbeat of opprobrium to rival the scorn daily poured out by this paper’s opinion columnists on President Trump? Is there some line that the world is waiting for Xi to admit that he has crossed?
Something to think about: there are “presently” eight million Uyghurs . . .
8
In the past the king and his kingdom were notorious for their sexcapades.
2
Every responsible government should have already offered amnesty visas to anyone from Brunei wishing to get out of there. Of course, American's Liar In Chief will not do anything for any facing hideous death in Brunei since he is totally irresponsible.
1
Aside from their oil, what has been Brunai's contribution to the arts, science, and technology? Do they even have intellectuals, philosophers, and dissenters? In effect, their only contribution is oil and not acquired through hard work but pure luck.
6
I’m not sure this hypocrisy applies just to the wealthy. I think the harshness in a number of Islamic traditions produces a bi-polar culture. For example, the 911 terrorists spent weekends in Vegas, gambling, drinking, debauching etc.. before flying airliners into the twin towers and the Pentagon.
7
Interesting to note the much, much lighter penalty for gay female sex than gay male sex. We have a similar double standard here in the U.S. among so-called "evangelicals".
3
If only the American people were great we could change the world. But, we are not great.
1
East or West, Christian, Muslim or Jew . . . want to find corruption? Follow the money.
6
The only way to deal with this character is to ban its citizens from entering the country, and blocking any company that is owned or does business with them.
It also illustrates the intense danger of so much wealth concentrated in one person's hands.
6
I think it's time the civilized world quit tolerating the whims of barbarians who happen to have a lot of dead dinosaurs under their soil. Stop buying from them. If that doesn't work, seize their property here. Let this tiny little despot support himself by renting out those 1,788 rooms on AirBnB.
6
@Aiya
Good idea. Keep in mind however that the 1788 rooms are NOT necessarily sleeping rooms.
Absolute monarchy is a crime, armed robbery on a massive scale.
3
and..if we only had someone with any morals at all in the White House, we might have something to say.
3
When will Americans stop playing some form of god over other nations? We don't have to agree with their principles and practices but what happened to sovereign control?
2
When the word realizes that conservatism is a moral failing and should be treated as a mental illness and no form of rule other than real democracy can be a basis for sovereignty. Though that means we should go as well
1
The worship of ‘real democracy’ sounds like a formula for continual revolution. The molecule ozone comes to mind. Two atoms, works fine, three, you’ve got caustic trouble.
I’m sure the Sultan’s loyal subjects have a problem with his absurd hypocrisy and wealth. It takes a lot to make $230m Central Park South apartments not look so bad lol.
Redistribution of wealth and power is likely to come in the next century. In the case of Brunei, it is more likely to come from outside its borders than within and is not likely to occur peacefully.
There is a big difference between laissez faire capitalism and being atop an oil rich nation. The sooner these creeps in Brunei find out the better imo.
1
What is it with we humans?
Why is it that the most sociopathic/psychopathic
among us are the ones routinely at the tops
of our business, religious, and political structures?
Why do we, as a species, continue to allow it?
What does this all-to-common state of affairs say about us?
You can say that we know what to do about it, but, to see and not to do, is the same thing as not to know.
5
Someone should ask the Sultan of Brunei what the Qur'an prescribes as punishment for those who steal wealth that otherwise belongs to everyone else.
The wholesale pillaging done by the royal family is far more damaging to his people than the acts of those who engage in adultery, etc.
3
Is it possible that behind the closed doors of their 1700 rooms palace, "ladies of the night" are entertained with lavish meals served with champagne and who knows what else? Just curious.
1
Rules for thee but not for me is the mantra of all social conservatives.
5
Well, put one down for religious hypocrisy. The Brunei ruling family is degenerate sexually, even by the standards of the idle Islamic rich. But put one down now for commercial hypocrisy: we gladly sell high end real estate to them and welcome their money -- at least it's not corrupt (it's an absolute monarchy and all state property is their personal property, a la Saudi Arabia) or laundered.
1
Don't hold your breath for any denunciations or trade embargoes against Brunei from Trump or his administration. I don't think he's uttered the words "human rights" even once during his 27 months as president. And of course it's quite apparent his affinity for autocrats and dictators, so they all know they can act with impunity when it comes to trampling on the basic rights of their own citizens.
The ones to blame for this charade are the oil companies and countries that fawn over them.
Does accusing Brunei for barbarity and hypocrisy qualify as Islamophobia? Brunei will lead Indonesia, Malaysia and even the Philippines to finish what ISIS failed to do so far, establish a caliphate ruled by Shariah Law. Across the globe, China must shoulder the blame alone for for re-educating their citizens about hateful ideologies and harmful superstition. So that's what it meant by "Exceptional"!
2
Excuse me for saying so but I think the pot is calling from the kettle that is black. From our corporate profiteering prisons, to death penalty executions - are sometimes botch, but always gruesome. Who are we kidding? Guns are our favorite toys of death that sometimes span more death sentences. Yes, we and the Saudi's should upgrade to modern sentences that don't involve taking more lives!
1
Pretty sure the Times criticizes those things, too.
1
So we should face consequences too. I'd be all to happy to be part of a world wide purge of conservatism
1
This is the argument I have with so many liberals I know including some who are gay. Supporting organized religion is like a black person supporting the klan. As a woman I cannot support any organized religion, they all subjugate women.
6
Hellen,
I’m willing to bet a much greater proportion of women than gays support organized religion, and their influence is considerably greater
1
I am an American-born, practicing Muslim. I have not attended a mosque in years. I attend a VERY progressive Unitarian Universalist Church (no, that isn't a typo). Why did I choose this particular type "church?" Because it embodies the spirit of Islam (at least how it was practiced/presented in my home).
My daughter was able to stand in front of the congregation (with her girlfriend) and light a candle of gratitude for her academic achievements, as well as her blossoming relationship.
I think the sultan skipped over the parts of the Qur'an that say people are free to believe and live how they wish. And if he's so focused on the "sin," he might refer to the hadith where it is CLEARLY stated that Allah's mercy outweighs his wrath.
So, until Muslims stop making it their personal business to police people's behavior, I'll keep attending the UU Church.
#LoveIsTheSpiritofThisChurch
#DwellTogetherInPeace
#SeekTheTruthInLove
#HelpOneAnother
6
Shanonda,
Thanks for sharing your experience. My best friend in third grade is a secular Muslim woman whose values are no different than any other liberal’s. I had a Pakistani friend like that in high school, and pretty much all the Muslim South Asian and Turkish international students at my college were the same way.
According to Pew, American Muslims are more likely to support gay marriage than evangelical Christians. Maybe they’ll be able to develop a reformed alternative for Muslims like you. Islam is NOT inherently antigay—at least, no more antigay than other Abrahamic religions.
1
@Shanonda Nelson What Qur'an parts are you referring to?
If the US needs Brunei for any reason, don't expect any US kind of substantive US response.
See, e.g., Saudia Arabia, where these kinds of laws with attendant barbaric penalties are also on the books.
1
Please publish photos of the dissolute lifestyles of Brunei's ruling class. Thy need some public shaming for their wicked hypocrisy.
11
Religious fanatics of all type (Islamic, Christian, whatever) are capable of great cruelty in the name of their god(s). This is why the wall separating church and state must be absolute.
19
@Bailey
And that's why the current religion-biased hypocrisy and "religious-freedom" laws here in the US are so dangerous, evil, and anti-Constitutional.
3
Liberal values like , equal rights for women, persons of any sexual orientation, religion (Jizia), race, no cruel or inhumane punishments, are not protected by sacred texts and must be openly criticized by every Free society.
5
once again, Religion is shown as a tool for the powerful to control the poor and weak in society. "Don't blame your leaders, they are simply following our religious point of view".
Despicable.
also, a great example of "do as I say, not as I do"...
3
Religion is today, and has been historically, the single greatest tool for controlling large groups of people to the advantage of those leading them.
11
That is one thing Marx got right.
3
Yet every Marxist regime ever treated homosexuals as bad if not worse than any religion.
1
I'm surprised the country of Malaysia or Indonesia hasn't sent their army over there and sent the Sultan off to exile in London.
2
Several things bother me about this being news worthy. First is that many countries have policies or cultural beliefs at odds with popular or core thought or laws in the United States. Which, by the way, are always evolving. But the New York Times doesn’t report on everything around the world for obvious reasons. So I can’t help but see this article about Brunei as being motivated by things readers couldn’t possible know about.
Second is that Americans who judge Islamic societies with legal systems based on Islam fail to acknowledge the Christian roots of western society and law. It’s inexcapable. Even separation of church and state is itself a fallacy due to the fact that belief in religion is identical to belief in independent democratic government. In all cases we are talking about human beliefs about right and wrong.
@Dan - Ethics need not have its base in religion nor in "belief". The human species evolved as a "pack" species. Our survival depends on our ability to form socially cohesive groups. Our "ethics" is rooted in this. This is why things such as stealing and murder are considered wrong, because they destroy the cohesion of the group and harm everyone. No belief required. This is verifiable facts.
When technology did not exist for long distance travel and trade it was normal for groups to come only infrequently into contact and for those contacts to be violent. That violence didn't upset the cohesion of the individual groups, call them tribes, because the groups at war were essentially independent of each other.
But as humanity has expanded it has become clear that the larger the tribe, the more secure it can be. We are now at the point where all people across the planet can communicate and trade easily. All of humanity is reaching the point where it needs to function as a single tribe. The security of our survival increases with the size of our tribe. A crop failure on one continent can be covered by the sharing of food resources from other continents. The same with natural disasters and aid.
And the roots of all of this is evolutionary biology, not religion and belief.
2
As abhorrent as these laws are to us, it is the right of every sovereign nation to make its own rules. You don't like it, don't live there.
3
@Rich - True. And we, as a sovereign nation, have the right to boycott the other, and advocate for other nations to join our cause.
This is what I would like to see, the use of extreme economic measures, even if they hurt us a little as well. Fighting for the liberation of Europe from Hitler was hard on the allies. It cost a lot of pain. But I'm grateful our grandparents had the courage to do it. I wish we had the courage to face just a fraction of the economic pain to put a stop to rulers like the Sultan of Brunei (and Putin too for that matter).
2
I am sure that what George and Ellen have said will have the Sultan shaking all day and the UN condemning him will keep him up all night. He is not going to change, China will buy all the oil he has and Russia will be happy to sell him all the weapons he wants. Your going to have to wait for him to die and then hope for the best.
5
I feel fortunate to live in the states. We don't live in a theocracy, but I'm certain there are plenty of our residents who would embrace a Christian rule of law here. Witness occasional proposed legislation to reintroduce prayer into schools. Or how about the erosion of abortion rights, that is now gaining steam with conservative judiciaries. So it is worth fighting the evangelicals and religious right when they complain about "attacks" on their religion: these "attacks" are defined as not giving preference to their religion in the public square. Where it doesn't belong, and it should stay that way.
7
Your op-ed is relevant and timely in many ways, but it fails to mention the fundamental ideology and belief system that underpins Brunei's monstrous, absurd new law: religion. Sharia law is Muslim law and Islam is a religion, soon to surpass Christianity as the one with the most adherents on the planet.
One might argue that the point is too obvious to mention that the purpose of organized religion is for the rich and the powerful to subjugate and exploit the poor and meek. There is a ratio of direct proportion between how secularized a country is and how advanced, humane and prosperous it is.
I can see how one might skip over this point in a 55-word side note, but in a 550-word editorial, we should be reminded that at the root of this barbarity is the ultimate foolishness and irrationality: belief in the supernatural, belief in god.
9
One other thing. I’d like to clarify two points.
>>The world has gone way past times when witches were burned, homosexuals castrated or adulterers branded...
If only that were true. Homosexuality is still legally subject to imprisonment, corporal punishment, or death in at least 50 countries, mostly Muslim-majority and sub-Sahara African, covering well over a billion people. Even in countries where it’s not criminalized, the government turns a blind eye to antigay violence.
(It’s not a coincidence that many of these countries similarly punish or tolerate mob violence against adulterers/“adulterers.” Some of them still burn “witches”—or worse. In Papua New Guinea, for example, it’s a regular occurrence.)
>>Brunei’s cruel, inhuman and degrading penalties are not a relic of history, like the sodomy laws that stayed on the books of American states well into the 20th century...
In fact, sodomy laws “stayed on the books” in over a dozen states until SCOTUS ruled them unconstitutional in its landmark decision for Lawrence v. Texas in 2003. It wasn’t a unanimous decision, either, but 6–3. Scalia’s dissent was particularly nasty.
5
An idiotic headline and teaser. If the sultanate were poor, then stoning would be okay? Surely the wealth is not the issue.
4
Nothing to fear from Islam and its laws, obviously.
8
@Frumious Bandersnatch
Maybe you should read the Bible sometime:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
4
@GW I'm no defender of Xtianity by any means but the passage you mention only outlines after life penalties (and amorphous ones at that). VERY different from directing people to stone homosexuals... Though you can find that in the old testament.
Why do you call these laws “barbarous”? It’s Islam. It’s in the Koran. Get used to it.
Or maybe....
7
All the news and opinion that is fit to print. Well NYT -- the Qataris also have laws on the books against sodomy and homosexuality, and not a peep from your editorial board.
In fact, over the past week, we were "blessed" to read a series of articles from the NYT and see photo spreads about how chic and "modern" Qatar is with its new museums, hotels and A-list visitors.
Can the NYT Editorial Board please explain the hypocrisy?
4
Well that settles it, I'm cancelling my reservation at the Beverly Hills Hotel and staying at a Motel Six. That'll really straighten out this Boilkiah fella.
7
This sultan is an evil potentate, supporter of archaic Islamic laws, lives an opulent, depraved lifestyle of his own, and enforces Sharia Law upon the minions in his kingdom. I doubt he could be persuaded to have a change of heart and mind, regardless of opinions from American celebrities he's probably never heard of.
4
I'm sorry, but I find your projecting colonialist western white values on a country of color offensive. We're only allowed to criticize Israel and straight white males here.
8
Liberal atheist here, why do people on the left have such a knee-jerk reaction to always defend islam? Do they actually have any idea what they're defending?
9
The Sultan of Brunei, Hassanal Bolkiah was deliberately defying Christianity when he put these barbaric laws into effect on April 3. Last Sunday, April 7, The Holy Gospel read out at Catholic mass was about Jesus and the adulterer (John 8:1-11) which tells the story of the woman who was brought before Jesus after committing adultery. Jesus said to the people present, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." It's not that Sultan Bolkiah is without sin; but rather, he is so proud of his sins that he considers himself not to be sinful at all. Furthermore, the ridiculous wealth possessed by the Sultan and his fellow rulers is such that Jesus said they will have a harder time getting into heaven than a camel will trying to go through the eye of a needle. So anyone who admires the Sultan of Brunei is effectively admiring Satan himself and they will have a secure place in hell awaiting them unless they renounce their sins.
3
Why there is not a single Article on what China doing with Muslims or Iran doing with gay or lesbians? Why NYT picks a small nation while remains silent on big criminal nations like China & Iran (oh yes many Middle East countries as well).
1
@Aarav Several articles have appeared in the NYT covering those topics. Recently.
2
Sharia law could never come here, right?
7
People often use religion or laws as an excuse to carry out their own personal psychopathic desires.
6
And why NY Times, do you typically spend most of your editorial and reporting space demonizing Israel and fomenting anti-Semitism when the Arab world is so full of severe, everyday human rights violations such as these?
8
The sultan cannot live forever. Vote with your checkbook. I ride a bike and bought an electric vehicle. More moral reasons to go green.
3
Everywhere around the world, the extremely rich seek to live lives of immorality and excess while imposing dependence, austerity, and harsh morality on the vast majority of the world's population. This isn't about religion. It's about control.
There are many in the West who would do the same if they could.
4
When you deal with people like this you are dealing with those for whom sadism is an essential component of life and they must find a way to express it. Of course the population must be complicit for it all to work
Can you think of any parallels in our society?
2
He's not a sultan. He's a petulant tyrant who would have been stoned by his people decades ago without his black gold.
Amputation for theft? How fortuitous for that postured jackal in Brunei! He's already looted the country.
6
The President of the USA and the Secretary of State have allowed a Saudi Prince to cut up a US resident on foreign soil. The message has been sent. Money Trumps human rights.
8
NYT, you could have easily given a number of examples of the sultan or his family’s dissolute life style. The readers would like to know.
6
Why is this news when Saudi Arabia has been doing this forever?
7
These decadent hypocrites have a taste for young women, while imposing stone age laws on their population. Rules are for others.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-the-sultan-of-brunei-violated-his-sharia-law-with-me?ref=scroll
3
So, according to the NYT, Shariah law condemning gays to death is only a problem in countries that are rich?
4
Sounds like Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah belongs to the GOP and would be a great pick for the head of homeland security. We will no dough see a trump golf resort there soon!!!!
4
So what ? Who cares? Where is Brunei?
America is in no position to judge or cast stones against Brunei.
With 5% of humanity America has 25% of the world's prisoners. And 40% of the 2.3 million Americans in prison are black like Ben Carson even though only 13.% of Americans are black. Because blacks are persecuted for acting like white people do without any criminal justice consequences
Saudi Arabia buys more American arms than any other nation. And our " ally" is an ethnic sectarian homophobic misogynist patriarchal xenophobic primitive war criminal autocratic royal tyranny. The Saudis are engaged in ethnic cleansing terrorist War in Yemen including starvation.. The Saudis were the key force behind the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks and al Qaeda and ISIS and Osama bin Laden.
America invaded and occupied Iraq based upon lies about Iraqi WMD's and an Iraqi connection to 9/11/01. Millions of Iraqis have been displaced and made refugees. Hundreds of thousands Iraqis have been wounded and killef.
The evangelical Christian churches in America are bastions of homophobia.
5
Theocracies and societies are ruled by religious law are always a mess. By the way stoning to death for adultery is not in the Quran - the punishment is a whipping and exile for the woman. Nothing for the man. Penalties for apostasy (chastisement) and blasphemy (don't eat with this person) are always harsher in the Hadiths the so-called sayings so Mohammed the Prophet, which have no basis in historical fact. In fact the Quran states it is sufficient.
Sharia Law is a tool of the Brunei Dynasty to maintain their corrupt rule. Wish the Brits had got rid of them 100 years ago.
3
Can we please stop tiptoeing around the real issue? No, it’s not every Muslim. But the fact that we even have to ask such questions as - is this the country that stones gays or the one that forces women to cover themselves or the one that jails people for blasphemy - shows that there is a problem with this religion.
Now cue the outrage and the false equivalencies to Trump, The Crusades, evangelicals, etc, and the rationalization that it’s just a small percentage of 1.5 billion (hint: that’s still a big number). Meanwhile, we can’t address a problem if we can’t name it.
8
Yesterday a Muslim writer explained in the NYT that stoning for those crimes is a too harsh punishment, a prison sentence of “three months to two years,” would be enough.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/09/opinion/bruneis-stoning-law-is-out-of-touch-with-modern-islam.html
5
A massive boycott is the only justifiable response.
Stop ALL arms sales by the USA and EU countries.
Boycott ALL Brunei owned businesses.
Stop the purchase of any Brunei oil based products.
Of course, I feel we should have done the same with Russia after they stole Crimea and invaded eastern Ukraine.
But no, that level of response would hurt us financially. We aren't really prepared to take the necessary steps because we aren't prepared to face the necessary pain.
I'm glad our grandparents didn't feel that way when Hitler invaded Poland.
3
Guess who invented death by stoning? Hint: It was not the Muslims. Try the people of Abraham who inspired stoning in the Koran with their own Bible's more grotesque laws.
2
@Fred White - Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have the same cultural roots and a shared historical origin. Last I checked though, there were no "Christian" or "Jewish" countries who practiced death by stoning as a legally sanctioned form of execution.
Regarding who invented it, I believe it was back around 126,000 years ago when Og dropped a boulder on the head of Bagga who had stolen Og's girlfriend.
Does it really matter who "invented" it? Seems to me what matters is that Brunei's leader is advocating it and if there is something we can do to prevent that we should consider it. To me that is a discussion worth having.
8
A couple of weeks ago there was an opinion column asserting that violence in Islam was a myth.
So is this whole stoning homosexual things a figment of my imagination? Can we get a follow up column?
I don’t mean to be facetious, but denial is highly powerful.
11
I don't know what is more confounding: the fact that George Clooney is going after hotels and their blameless staff or the NYT Editorial board that is somehow pretending that the problem created by a medieval religious law is somehow the fault of a country and its leader. If this were true why do you have the Asia Bibi case in Pakistan or killing of Hindu bloggers in Bangladesh or the numerous detainees on grounds of blasphemy in Saudi Arabia or even the caning of lesbian women in Malaysia. Even in India till recently there was the triple talaq (or divorce) which was being used to divorce women using SMS text message.
Religion is the problem here as it is in Hindutva India or Buddhist Myanmar or Catholic South America where abortion rights are being denied even in cases of rape. Except in Brunei's case the problematic religion is not Christianity or Buddhism or Hinduism. But George Clooney won't say that because he has a soft target which he can punch down for effect. Bill Maher is right to ridicule him.
2
Well if the LGBTQ communities of Brunei iare worried maybe they can move to the one middle eastern country with LGBTQ protections that allows them to live openly and free, ISRAEL.
6
This is so twisted and deranged, and it's no different from the American legislators in certain southern states now who are trying to take control of all women's bodies and all their personal lives, by making abortion punishable by law. This is just sick depravity, under the guise of religion.
Their depravity approves of men fighting wars, to kill living, breathing human beings, but aborting a half-inch long embryo is considered murder??
Every human being has a right to their own body, their own choices, and their own life. To try and deny that basic right is just sick, sick, sick!
2
A good friend was a contract worker in Saudi. His University would sometimes have staff invited to parties thrown by the Prince.
Two take aways...wretched excess (buy a dozen new Mercedes for the party so guests can jump sand dunes), and let's just say that drugs and alcohol weren't in short supply.
This isn't much different than the US, though. All the people voting on restricting women's rights and health care are the same who can afford to send their daughter "on vacation" should she need assistance, while the single waitress has no options. We are little better in this regard.
3
I oppose all capital punishment, but don't see how death by stoning is more barbaric than the electric chair or poison gas.
Isn’t this why there is so many problems in the Mudoim world. Why can’t Saudi Arabia and Irsn get along?
4
@Ralph Petrillo Because of the different sects within Islam. Saudi Arabia (and Brunei) are Sharia. Iran is Shia. There are more but I am not fully versed.
If only the Sultan controlled massive oil reserves and not hotels then maybe we’d look past his Shariah anti LGBTQ laws like we do Saudi Arabia and Qatar etc etc ??
2
Though agreeing with editorial, NYT almost always deferring to cultural relativism regarding non Western nations’ mores/folkways with western criticism generating “Orientalism” charges. Would editorial have been written if stoning victims were just petty thieves, heterosexual adulterers? Or just another NYT piece advocating/virtue seeking regarding LGBT privilege?
3
Has any member of the editorial board of the NY Times ever set foot in Brunei, to take the measure of daily life there?
The US has no moral high ground here with its current president and his fealty to the evangelical Christians who would love to have the equivalent of Shariah law for Christians installed in the US. Get religion out of government!
2
Where is Congresswoman Omar condemning this? She was so quick about Israel!
9
The only kings, queens, royals and kingdoms the modern, educated western world should be dealing with should be in a Disney theme park. But we are a feckless people led by our own self appointed hypocrites. For this we get to have conversations about whether it is right “to stone gay people to death” or “to murder dissidents in embassies” or “ keep women from traveling w/ out a male relative” or “be arrested for felonious crimes in other countries, be bailed out and illegally shuttled back to the protective confines of a medieval society” or “rape and beat servants kept in a type of legal slavery with utter impunity” For shame and tee hee hee that we pretend to be righteous about what most of us and our elected leaders deep down think is nothing more than a bunch of fluff - because it is so far removed from our own lives. The King is alive. Long live the King!
To murder a fellow human being because they, often from birth, are gay, is inhuman. But to keep in power, an autocratic, evil family needs to show the people that to fight for democracy is to die in agony, and a few torn apart bodies would do that. The same family has rule Brunei for six centuries of death dealing.
But hey, America established itself by ethnic cleansing and murder at a more massive scale, and its leaders gained power and wealth by enslaving fellow humans. And we hold them in such high esteem that we named our capital city, Washington, after one.
Brunei is a horrible place with oil, run by bigots who murder people so they can stay in power. Don't blame their religion, for greedy thugs killing to stay in power are known in all religions.
Hugh
1
The Sultan embodies wasteful consumption in the worst possible way. He buys lots of luxury cars and leaves them to rot: https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/never-before-seen-photos-reveal-sultan-bruneis-luxury-car-collection-it-rots-desert-1632320
What a sad, sad country.
3
Nice to see the NYT resorting to invoking what tabloids might have reported, while conflating injustice with wealth in the classic form of the outrage hobbyist. No touching on the real culprit which is the power of mythical sky daddies to empower sociopaths to kill for religion, no that wouldn't be PC.
Laughable lack of intellectual rigor behind these groanings from the editorial board. Maybe the Sultan will kill the wrong lion on safari and we'll finally have proper politically correct grounds to to after him.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." - Blaise Pascal, philosopher and mathematician (1623-1662)
1
Speaking of "hypocrisy." The super self-righteous "Editorial Board" should take a closer look in the mirror before it writes another article such as this one. The Editorial Board pointed out that the Sultan has ruled since 1967. Let's take stock of what we've done during that time. Vietnam war - three million Vietnamese dead; support of president Saddam Hussain in his war against Iran - at least one million dead; 2004 invasion of Iraq - at least 500,000 Iraqi dead, mostly women, children and elderly Iraqis. We don't need to mention the utter chaos that was unleashed in the aftermath of "mission accomplished." Would the Editorial Board remind us of the number of deaths by stoning in the sultanate. There's a line from an old Temptation song: "If you're living in a glass house, don't throw no stones."
1
About a dozen Muslim countries have death penalty laws for homosexual sex. Most do not enforce the laws. Some use them as a ruse for executing political undesirables. Some are so secretive that we do not know what actually happens. Some are part of surreal government policy, as when the President of Iran declared that his country had no homosexual population.
The law in Brunei was enacted a week ago and how it will be used, if at all, is unknown.
These are basic facts needed to understand what the sultan has done. I like basic facts because knowing them makes me informed. Basic facts should always be stated by the media because they have the duty to accurately inform us.
1
And what does "conspicuous luxury" have to do with their policies?
1
Who knew the barbaric Sultan of Brunei owns American, English, French hotels (The Beverly Hills Hotel, the Bel Air, the Dorchester and the Plaza Athenee in Paris)? Now we know. Brunei's absolute ruler has ordered harsher Muslim law against his people (428,000 souls). Stoning women and men to death. Amputation of body parts and lashings for offenses to Islam's strict Shariah Law. Sultan Hassani Bolkiah, ruler of Brunei for 52 years, signed the U.N. Convention against torture, inhuman treatent or punishment, crimes against humanity.
Remembering that Human rights meant zip to American companies which had subsidiaries in Germany from 1933-45 (Ford, Coke, IBM, Chase Manhattan Bank, etc.). So companies today look the other way when human rights are egregiously violated as they are in Brunei and all other Islamic countries. Sitting atop oceans of oil and plastic, all countries of the world will be dealt a death blow by the coming extinction. Climate warming won't help the Muslim human rights' victims. The world is too much with us today.
1
How can it be hypocrisy when it was al ordered by God?
2
Shariah law in Brunei is not much more extreme than legislation under consideration in so-called "pro-life" Texas, right here in the good old U.S. of A:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/04/10/texas-bill-would-make-it-possible-put-women-death-having-abortions/
3
Always thought the Plaza Athénée was in the Saoud hands... For the rest, i do not forget the two atomic bombs droped on a ready to surrender Japan in august 1945. America is the most brutal nation on this planet. Please edit board, do not forget to pledge equal treatment for both genders in Brunei.
1
Ms. Linda Sarsour, you easily talked gullible American women into demonstrating against Mr. Trump. It turned out that you were fooled, as President Trump turned out to be quite liberal, having hired a record number of women in his administration.
What about you? How liberal are you? Where are you, Ms . Sarsour?
Be a real feminist and have the courage to organize a demonstration against a medieval tyrant, will you?
3
Boycott everything Brunei, especially oil, that'll get the little despot's attention.
1
The Sultan is merely continuing the tradition found in the Jewish Old Testament.
Before we get too morally superior, let's remember that the all-time bestselling book in this country orders that homosexuals be put to death: “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.”Leviticus 20:13. Where's the campaign to boycott the Bible?
5
I suppose that if Trump strongly condemned Brunei's policies in a tweet later today, the NYT Editorial Board would call him anti-Islamic and a cultural imperialist.
1
This editorial seems to presume that a handful of western countries, human-rights organizations, and progressive celebrities, have the ability, let alone the responsibility, to correct Brunei's adoption of full-scale Shariah law. Come again?
In the end, only Muslims can bring about positive changes within Islam.
That is apt to take centuries, if it ever happens at all, because the default position of the rulers and scholars is still "no change will ever be necessary, and to propose any is blasphemy."
In the few years I have remaining, I expect to see no changes, alas.
3
For one moment, the NY Times becomes what newspapers have done forever - bringing out attention to mis-leaders who do nothing or too little for their subject-victims.
Arewe shocked that the writereven does so without trying to blame this on our President?
It EVEN admits the real problem, a religious-political-military movement hanging on from mankind's most cruel era of conquest and control over people.
I had to check the lines at the top of my screen, I admit.
WAY to GO, New York Times.
1
This is rated the fifth richest country in the world, with less than half a million people. And almost half live in poverty, while the rest are wealthy. So it's totally corrupt as well as barbaric. But at least those in danger can easily leave, and enter most member nations of the UN visa-free, and probably can get asylum at several of them.
1
Oh boy I sure hope one of Sultan's sons, daughters or beloved close relatives don't get caught with their knickers down or get outed.
It would be a Shakespearean tragedy of epic proportions for him to have enforce his own barbarous rule and order their execution.
Try an international boycott!
Is it appropriate to say they are simply religious?
3
Mainly after WW1, relevance to Ottoman Empire as the main custodian of Islam was shifting to other more orthodox Wahhabi Saudi & then Shia Iran. Western powers, mainly Britain, were the main patrons for that shift to weaken once mighty Ottomans in favor of puppet Islamic rulers. But Islam, as a religion, seems to have some deeper fundamental issues & moderate Muslims need to work on that. Otherwise, it will be not so easy for them & also for others to peacefully coexist, particularly when the Muslims become majority.
I’m yet to know about any Muslim majority country where religious minorities flourished & grew in terms of percentage of total population. It appears that all the countries that have death penalty for homosexuals & atheists are Islamic countries (or Muslim majority region of a secular country- only example is Nigeria).
Another great example would be dietary restrictions based on religious belief- like eating/banning pork or beef. Pork is equally banned for Christians & Jews. Many Indian Hindus openly eat beef.
I met so many Muslims. Many are highly educated. I never met a single Muslim who eats pork & openly admit it.or the ones who does not eat pork but openly support eating pork for any Muslim who might like it.
Educated & moderate Muslims have to convince themselves first & then assert other Muslims that one can still remain a Muslim by accepting that everything written in Quran is not right.
1
"..while they lead lives of conspicuous luxury" – make that grotesque luxury and hideous lack of humanity.
1
Several years ago we were in Brunei on the last day of Ramadan, and our group was invited (along with all the citizens of Brunei) to the Sultan's palace for a reception. Everyone was given a commemorative gift -- a box of cookies in an elaborately decorated tin with the Sultan's picture on the lid -- and the opportunity to meet the ruler and his second wife. I was a little surprised to learn that his first wife was still in the picture and still a wife. So now adultery is punishable in Brunei by barbaric means, but polygamy is totally okay? Anyone want to explain the difference? Or is this just another example of how inconvenient laws never apply to the rich and powerful?
3
An editorial singling out Brunei is necessary, but a paragraph or two mentioning Saudi Arabia and it’s draconian sharia laws would add balance to the piece. Maybe a follow up editorial dedicated to the runners up in the despicable me category despotic, hypocritical Sultans, and Kings.
2
But the US practises the death penalty, deemed "barbaric and inhumane" by much of the civilized world. Yet no Democratic candidate campaigns against the barbaric practise. Most liberals see nuclear weapons as immoral. Yet, the New York Times does not ask candidates to go on record stating that they will refuse to push "the Button" according to US protocol.
Earth's very own Game of Thrones kingdom.
Wikipedia reports that the Sultan of Brunei was educated at Sandhurst, the elite British military academy. Much as a whole class of Latin American military dictators were all educated at elite US military academy, Sandhurst turned out dictators like Muammar Gaddafi and Idi Amin. There is a failure in the education at these elite US and British institutions that the authorities should ponder.
2
I’m surprised and grateful that the Editorial Board chose not to subsume homosexuality under the politically correct, increasingly nonsensical alphabet soup, LGBT(QIA ). This archaic law, like all anti-homosexual sex laws, targets lesbians but especially gay men. (So much for intersectional feminism and the “matrix of oppression.”) It’s not about gender identity or cross-dressing or intersex conditions or asexuality or the potpourri of people who self-identify as queer or a distinct bisexual identity (imagine claiming victimhood when you experience heterosexual desire).
“LGBT” and its more “inclusive” variations are—have been since their advent in the 90s—a concession to marginalization fetishists trying to piggyback off gay hardship. Brunei should remind them and their pathologically woke allies of the problem of inventing new forms of oppression. I doubt it will, but I still appreciate the Editorial Board for taking a stand.
1
Will the NY Times ask Congresswomen Omar and Talib what the public position is on this situation? The answer, or, more likely, their non-answer would be illuminating.
6
I figure if Kamala Harris and Diane Feinstein have no problem questioning religious Catholic judicial nominees as to their religious convictions particularly -- of course -- on abortion, it'd be fun to question the Democratic Party's showpiece for diversity -- and whose periodic anti-Semitic eructations cause no end to contorted apologia and rationalizations from Democratic leaders -- Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, if she agrees with Brunei's application of Sharia Law considering her religious Islamic faith; and if not, why not?
6
Just look at the barbarism and archaic nature of Arabic ritual and law. Incompatible with the west, and they will be the first to tell you that.
I think it's interesting Arab nations have the highest obesity rates in the world. It tells you something about their culture, and how they have allow fast food to dominate their diet. A Taco Bell, that is allowed, but human decency and compassion in the legal system, apparently not.
3
“The oil-rich sultanate imposes harsh Shariah law on its subjects, while members of the royal family enjoy lives of conspicuous luxury.”
I'm not seeing any hypocrisy. He's a king, king's answer to nobody, and this is how they typically run things. What, did the author think we chose to throw off the yoke of monarchy because it was no longer fashionable?
long have we progressive given a pass to certain countries that offer no human rights to women, gays, atheists, Jews and Christians.
This is the prejudice of low expectations. It is time to speak the truth.
4
Who are we to judge his family's opulent and decadent lifestyle? They are spending their own money. Not mine in any case. Want to have shariah law? Go right ahead. Boycott his country and do not visit it. No brainer. If it spreads to the neighboring countries that is to their detriment. Let their population deal with it.
Shariah is made to terrorize those who do not belong to the plutocracy. Hence the combination of Brunei corruption and Sharia, is no coincidence, but rule: the latter enables the former.
So it is no wonder that those on top are not obeying Sharia: they are imposing it, because that’s how they terrorize. Most of Shariah was not in the Qur'an left by Muhammad. Shariah appeared progressively with Muhammad's successors ("Caliphs"), and in the Hadith.
Shariah became the justification of the ferocious organization the Caliphs imposed in the largest empire ever.
It's not to discriminate particularly against Islam to say this: Roman Catholicism, in particular under emperor Theodosius I, starting in 380 CE invented the method of punishing severely, even lethally all sorts of crimes, starting with heresy and apostasy: Islam duplicated this deliberately, and directly, three centuries later.
The relation between Christianism and Muhammad was very tight: the bishop of Alexandria offered two slaves to Muhammad (who fell in love with the lady who gave him a son). Shariah is, fundamentally, a Roman Catholic invention...
And therein the warning: Christian religious law quickly led to the destruction of books, libraries and putting to death intellectuals. This then mechanically created the Dark Ages
Thus the sorry example of the near-collapse of civilization in Europe is testimony enough that one has to keep the demons of religious fanaticism under control, in a timely manner. Resist!
3
Environmentally speaking, anyone who is aware of the planetary gender imbalance (due to a preference for boys) may welcome more gay men. In some countries in Asia it may become a necessity.
Times are tough for the moral elite.
First Trump properties became uncouth....now this
Some commenters below seem to feel that good people cannot criticize the disgusting sultan because somebody else from their country did something bad.
That is hypocracy and deflection of the worst order. A pathetic lie to justify the unjustifiable. It fails. It also reveals the cruelty in their hearts.
Nobody is entitled to force their religeous hatred on anybody else, period.
3
What an important article, depicting a cruel hypocrite (unless there is a Stephen Miller behind dictating Hassanal's stupid rules), in the name of an all-loving god, a contradiction in terms only seen in the most fanatic religious extremism ending in violence. If these despots, swimming in opulence by the curse of being oil-rich (hence irresponsibly intolerant) could educate themselves in basic science, they would come to the realization than homosexualism is not a 'sodomic' choice; a feature they are born- with instead, and imprinted in their brain, hence, a natural phenomenon. So, if the Sultan chose to remain ignorant by choice, it must be considered malevolent...and worldwide condemned. Too bad we still have evangelists in the U.S.A. who, against all evidence, insist in converting by force what is incontrovertibly set as one of the 'normals' in our wildly diverse social animal intercourse. Shouldn't we place arrogance to a well deserved place, the garbage?
Excuse me but since when Religious rules binds the rich and powerful.
This is a very well known fact in Islamic world.
for example: It become a legendary tale, Saudi family and gulf emirates ultra rich spend their Ramadan in worlds well known luxury vacation spots not to suffer from fasting and abstinence. Their life philosophy clearly says that these Islamic rules are for rets of us, , extremely privileged ones already started to harvest their 72 virgin in this world and without any moral conscience. These Islamic ultra rich 0.1% are already in their heaven, so no religious rules bind them.
There is no sin for rich.
1
“...look for ways to persuade Sultan Hassanal and other beneficiaries of Brunei’s oil riches that they best quickly bring their laws into compliance with their human rights obligations...”
Look for ways? Really? I don’t often quote Nancy Reagan, but
here’s a suggestion: Just say no! Don’t buy their oil, don’t do business with them, and they will change their tune faster than the crack of a whip.
249
@RickyDick
Actually we need the oil more than they need the money, right now.
What if they stopped shipping oil and gas until America complied with sharia?
Or we can respect each other’s differences and just do business.
@Dan
With all the oil we are pumping out in the US to say nothing of the natural gas, why in the world would we need theirs?
21
This is what the world did that brought Hitler to power. Sometimes, doing the right thing is, well...right.
11
After the US and its allies have spent nearly a decade fighting Islamic extremism and its terrorist progeny, the Sultan's edict only emboldens practitioners who would impose the very same draconian religious punishments as found under the cruel rule of Isis and Al-Qaeda. Is this is the message the Sultan wishes to send in 2019?
66
@Chris
To be fair, framing the US involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq, and then more recently against ISIS as “fighting Islamic extremism” is like saying US involvement in WWII was fighting anti-semiticism.
The United States doesn’t care about “Islamic extremism” one bit. Our long standing relationship with Saudi Arabia is one example of this. Our (ironic) opposition to attempts by the USSR to eradicate “extremism” in Afghanistan in the 1970’s is another. Few people know that it was the United States that essentially handed Afghanistan to a disgruntled Osama Bin Laden (who was angry about how American money was corrupting his home state of Saudi Arabia, and was subsequently expelled from the kingdom over his activism).
13
@Chris: Our country also imposes "draconian religious punishments" for ridiculous religious crimes, such as abortion or a fetus that died when the mother was shot.
Our nation is just as guilty of extreme religious thinking and cruel/harsh punishments. We still "burn witches", however we do so now using "sophisticated" techniques like months-long solitary confinement in privately run prison complexes staffed by men who never went to college.
5
Saddled comfortably on the privileged side of the archaic law, and basking in the glitter of the oil wealth, the Brunei royalty can well afford the sadistic pleasure of stoning others, mostly scapegoats.
90
@Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma Not if the rest of the world boycotts all aspects of these despicable practices. The hotels, the oil and everything else they wish to sell to the rest of the world. While we may be unable to convince other countries who chose to pursue these inhumane punishments, the rest of the world certainly can provide one heck of a big dent in their income. Besides there is a going shift to renewable energy which will make their oil useless!
4
Some of us believe we should move towards renewable energy because of climate change. But you would expect even the most rusted on "conservatives" who are climate skeptics would also embrace renewables, if only to end the support of the hypocritical regimes outlined in the article.
339
@Mary. Those who endorse oil stand to lose much of their wealth from a word that depends mostly on renewables. You don’t really expect them to reject their money, do you?
16
@Mary at the time of the Bush/Blair fiasco I was saying "Bomb the Oil Wells". The irony of course is that many of these states lie at sea level....they have to now create a new green revolution that takes us back to350ppm and removes the CO2 from the atmosphere back to the soil.
Western policy is broadly "Guns for Oil"
7
@Mary
This President has made America free of these tyrants who imprison their peoples.
You can thank him in Nov. 2020.
2
Religion based laws imposed on other people but not for them to practice! Not just the Brunei Royal family but sounds an awful lot like a certain political party in the U.S.A. too!
5
Every petro-state in the world is corrupt beyond belief. And with the exception of Venezuela, Iran and Russia, we are buying and selling with them. Weapons for oil money, or just oil. Meanwhile, we have become a huge producer of gas and oil because of fracking. One doesn't have to look very hard to see the similarities between the despots ruling these nations and Trump – in their shared imperiousness, hypocrisy, ostentation, and disdain for women – or anyone – who threatens their grasping for power and their fragile masculinity.
4
The older I get the more I understand how tenuous civilization is, and how its semblance exists in only tiny number of western countries. Dont take it for granted. Dont create false equivalences with barbaric states for the sake of political correctness.
8
@scientella
Odd, that we call a lot of went on in ancient Rome and Greece as "civilization".
It's time to stop buying oil.
4
@Moehoward, We export oil.
3
A country like this needs to quickly be made an example of by being strangled economically. It would be hard to believe based upon the country's overall insignificance that it would be difficult to round up enough support to shut them down...
139
@F DiLorenzo
Yes, except just like Venezuela, you shut them down and Trump's handler, Russia, will open them up again. As long as Trump is beholden to Russia it's just like playing Whack-a-Mole.
19
@F DiLorenzo
Why? You sound just like any other extremist who believes their way is the only way and everyone else must fall in line “or else”. The US began as a nation doing business with everybody including the “Turks” (Muslims) that the British has categorically rejected for a variety of reasons.
The suggestion that any Islamic nation should be strangled economically due to their different way of doing things is disrespectful and fails to acknowledge that our way of life is equally off putting or shocking to others.
1
@F DiLorenzo, and when powerful countries attempt to strangle countries that won't play by the rules, it's the people who suffer, while the rulers continue to bask in wealth and luxury. That said, there must be some other forms of effective persuasion.
3
Yet another example of how the concepts of monarchy, royalty, and authoritarianism are little more than sick jokes. The only legitimate governments are those that govern with the consent of the people.
9
At times I thought this article was describing our dear friend, ally, and petroleum partner Saudi Arabia. I believe there are severe punishments there for homosexuality, adultery, and women traveling without a pass from their male "guardian" -- but perhaps not stoning.
13
Arguing that barbaric and capricious autocracy is not acceptable in today's world is completely, 100% wrong. Barbarism and capricious autocracy has never in the postwar period flourished as now. The question is: what has changed in Washington DC that America now stands idly by while this cancer metastasizes? What does the Sultan see coming out of the White House that emboldens him to act?
5
This isn't going to end well for the sultan or his relatives.
1
I do buy into the concept that all humans have embedded in their DNA a desire to transcend death---and religion plays a major role is meeting this need. What I don't get is how you maintain this belief system while embedded in a religious system that inflicts extreme cruelty on its memberships. Most religious have this real dark side, really dark, from stoning members to unleashing sexual predators on children. At what point do you say to your train to heaven ---I'm getting off at the next station.
5
It is barbaric, no question about that. But it's Brunei's business, and it's not hurting anybody outside, so I doubt any country will take real actions to protest.
13
@J
"it's not hurting anybody outside" is an absurd contention. As the piece points out, there is are obvious and urgent consequences to this law, in both the practical sense - adjacent countries taking the opportunity to enact similar measures - and the more thematic, whereby such draconian cruelty is legitimized. The world is a networked entity, and the actions of one state impact others, and the same can be said for culture.
Moreover, we should be equally concerned with how this hurts those 'inside'; those people are human beings too. As Martin Niemoller put it, 'Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.'
68
@Jessica Summerfield
He is pointing out that imposing our beliefs into Brunei is no different from “Islamic extremists” doing the same to others. The only response you have provided reinforces his statement which is that your concern has to do with other Islamic nations (publicly) imposing the same punishment. But these are Islamic nations who have every right to make/impose their own laws.
2
@Dan I actually don't think that was his (or her!) argument at all. Nevertheless, in response to such an argument, it's entirely appropriate to criticize the laws of other nations when those laws allow for death by stoning. I would criticize any nation for this.
30
The common man suffering even to a point of death while the leaders live a lavish lifestyle. Sounds a lot like our current government here in the U.S. No, we aren't stoning people, but we take from the poor to give to the rich, who then take even more.
12
Those who want to clamp down on gay sex need to know that there is no danger of it becoming an epidemic. They may not realize that most people have no desire for gay sex and harsh controls are not required to prevent them from engaging in it.
3
This is what Trump dreams about doing.
Only he'd include minorities along with LGBTQ.
Such cruelty. It would be huge.
Trump also lusts after that gold-plated Rolls-Royce and 1,788-room palace.
It's a tossup which one Trump desires more, but the one thing for certain is his choice would be the one that benefits Trump the most.
Not America.
Trump.
Does it benefit Trump?
That's the only result that matters.
5
@D. DeMarco
How does this story have to do with Trump more than any other U.S. president. Might as well blame Washington, At least he had his share of slaves.
1
We won our revolution to overthrow tyrannical royal rule. It is the foundation of our nation... based upon the rise of Humanism philosophy in revolutionary France. It is a Western ideal. Not arguing it’s wrong but it is arrogant and ignorant to assume a 200 year system of governing is the only one that works that it works for all cultures and belief systems.
No, it is arrogance to subscribe to childish cultural relativism. Of course our system is infinitely better. That’s why people are risking their lives every day to come to the west.
2
Yes! I am willing to boycott hotels I would never stay in in the first place! Thanks for that! My conscious is salved.
1
The kindest, most thoughtful, intelligent and creative person I know is our son—who happens to be gay. He is truly one of the finest human beings I know.
Contrast that to the descriptions here of these imposers of Sharia Law and ask yourself, who is more deserving of punishment?
Although I was raised Catholic, these days I don't use religion to find my moral compass. However, if I did, I would be reminded of many lessons about false Gods and the devil.
You tell me who is the devil in this scenario? The man who dares to love differently or those who would seek to inflict tremendous pain upon him only to kill him? If there is a God and there is a devil, who represents who here?
283
@Gwe
Not using a religion, especially the most popular religions of our era, is always a step forward to finding one's moral compass. Protecting a god tends to confuse people, gets in the way of choosing to find optimal ways to increase the well being of actual humans and other earthy inhabitants.
Our present day gods are basket cases when it comes to helping us make ethical and moral choices.
the well
17
@Gwe
The same question can be asked of almost any of the big religions these days, for example, the Catholic Church especially under JPII went on a gigantic anti LGBT program (along with abortion), they practically turned abortion and being anti lgbt as being the two pillars of Catholicism, meanwhile those same 'moral' men were responsible for abusing children and covering for those who did......not to mention, of course, the religious right as a whole, that sat back and watched as the GOP created a new religion that the rich were blessed and the poor are sinful, and supported gleefully every tearing of the social safety net.
The answer to your question is that demonizing people for who they are is a road to power through hate, hate is strong emotion, and it works.
16
“It isn’t fair, it isn’t right,” Mrs. Hutchinson screamed, and then they were upon her.
1
Let me see if I got this straight--so far the bloggers are convinced that changing from oil to wind or solar power will change the Sultan of Brunei from a prince to a pauper. Once the Sultan declares bankruptcy all these barbaric practices will cease. I also find it hard to believe that so many commenters are actually defending the Sultan's authority to rule his kingdom any way he see fit even if he chooses to have people stoned to death.
5
@sharon5101
You find it hard to believe people defend him? I don't. There are many many many Americans who would support and applaud a leader who would dole out these (any even harsher) punishments to a slew of minorities--but especially to gay men and transgender women.
1
I think it is long past time to stop treating monarchies as nations. "Sultan" -- what an embarrassing title in the 21st century. Almost as bad as "princess." Such places are, by definition, illegitimate.
12
Brunei is Saudi Arabia on a smaller scale. Let's don't feign outrage at this extreme interpretation of Sharia when we have been the largest client of the Wahhabi Saudis for decades, a state that has also formally declared war and destruction for Israel. When it comes to petroleum consumption America doesn't choke at any ideology. Just give us cheap gas.
13
I know from my acquaintances in college fund-raising that the Sultan has been frequently solicited for major donations over the last several years. How many of our elite "liberal" universities (Harvard, Stanford, etc.) have accepted money from this man?
That's a story worth investigating, NYT.
23
....and please add NYUs surprising affiliation with Dubai.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates
One of the most gay-friendly universities partnering with one of its oppressors? What?!
5
@Mike Schmidt Which university has an entire "college" financed, complete with compliant professors, by some now-out-of-favor (arrested and extorted by the new Saudi regime) Saudi princeling? Ah, Georgetown, and wait -- Harvard's got one too.
Not your country, not your problem.
Perhaps we should focus on making our own country tolerant of all and provide a beacon of hope instead of shaming other countries who do not have a history or foundation of western enlightenment.
Should we invade them and overthrow the Sultan?
Should we sanction and boycott them?
Should we have a celebrity telethon?
Should we not use their hotels (I guess that's their thing)
Perhaps, in our attempt to be morally superior to such barbaric nations, we should consider that most of the people in Brunei are living their lives the way they want with customs they are accustomed to. We may find some customs abhorrent, but I'm sure we will get over that by going to buy some clothing made by slave labor in some other South Eastern Asian nation with a stellar record of human rights especially towards the LGBTQ+ community.
2
There’s really no way to know if they are living the lives they want because to say otherwise would likely result in a loss of their heads.
2
The behavior of the sultan of Brunei is reprehensible, archaic and obscenely hypocritical.
But, let's not forget, he's just another, smaller version of petroleum royalty behaving badly. Saudi Arabia certainly comes to mind. Why should they be viewed any more favorably?
Money is power, And power in the wrong hands is dangerous.
239
@Alan R Brock Exactly. The Washington Post journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, comes to mind: Tortured, murdered, dismembered for what he wrote. And our so-called president's son-in-law's counsel to the crown prince of Saudi Arabia? It will blow over. No more 'embarrassments'.
13
Let's just call it cruelty by another name/reason and apply it to a select -ed few. then let's link it up with other cruelty applied to a select-ed few, like the Yazidis. like the Yazidis who were the selected few and therefore eligible to be enslaved.
mother and five-year-old daughter.
and five-year-old child chained in the extraordinary heat of the day
left to die for some infraction of the slave contract
all the "reasons" for in-humanity.
4
Shouldn't we be giving a pass to the Sultan like we did for MBS?
6
Hmm ... the royal family lives in luxury while imposing harsh judgments on everyone else. Maybe Donald would be happy there.
13
How reprehensible that multinationals and states would do business with such flagrant human-rights abusers. All those oil-thirsty, arms dealing countries are complicit in such atrocities. There is one in particular that springs to mind...
5
“The oil-rich sultanate imposes harsh Shariah law on its subjects, while members of the royal family enjoy lives of conspicuous luxury.”
What dichotomy? Middle Eastern standard practice.
10
Whether it's Brunei, or its spiritual larger sister Saudi Arabia, or other similar nations whose rulers use religion, backward thinking and "religious jurisprudence" to control people, I'm reminded of Edward Gibbon's quote:
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
23
I think you're advocating an international boycott of Brunei's oil, but you don't quite say it. I also think you don't say it because it's absurd. There's not one chance in a thousand that China would decline to buy Brunei's oil because of Brunei's domestic policy, and everybody knows it.
3
Hmmmm.
Cruel domestic policy.
Human rights abuses.
Birds of a feather...
@Bob Acker - Of course, we could refuse to buy Chinese products if they bought Brunei's oil. But that won't happen either because it would cost us $$$.
I can't wait until these men's time is over. Whether domestic or foreign, these are the same types that have been holding back progress on all fronts since time began for us modern humans.
14
@Clearwater good luck! On those countries kings are the law. They own the country. Here, and in other pseudo democracies, they are put in power by the people, with a strong participation of women.
2
@Clearwater
Yes. They may live in magnificent houses with golden toilets, but they are still barbarians.
3
Please report on the Western banks and other institutions that profit from providing services to this nation. In addition to boycotting the hotels, I want to put pressure on the bankers, oil traders, shipping companies and other western entities who profit handsomely from doing business with Brunei.
30
So one of the wealthiest rulers in the world is afraid of women, afraid of men who love men, afraid of women who love women, etc. and so on. Wealth plus power seems to make some people more fearful. And yes, sadly many suffer from that sickness too here in the U.S.
9
@Ann I partially agree with you, but it's not about fear of the gays and adulteres. But about control and some semblance of legitimacy through populism. It's a scientific fact that most of the population in any country are hetero, therefore to make the scapegoat of a clear minority through centuries established, accepted and supported bigotry (this being the extreme version of it; but many western countries still uphold such bigotry in more mild ways), is a effective form of showing off and staying in power without anyone acting for political change. It is hypocrisy and real-politik; but unfortunately effective- as it has always been. Even worse is the cost of human lifes, torture and suffering for someone to remain one of the wealthiest in the world.
3
No doubt the Muslim World is packed with angry, teeming cities and sheiks with palaces.
Here in the United States, we have haves and have-nots not seen since the Gilded Age; but until Donald Trump packs even more lower courts with conservative judges, we still have laws to protect us.
Not, perhaps, for long.
And the men Trump has been putting into his cabinet will make sure of it.
26
This is selective virtue signaling at its best. Picking one oil producing country to single out for their hate laws while ignoring virtually every other one.
7
@Mat
No, Brunei was "picked" because the ruler just enacted death by stoning, and so has been in the news lately. Perhaps you were unaware of this.
3
You’ve got it backwards. The virtue signalers are the ones saying it’s just another culture, no better or worse than our own.
3
Brunei is scarcely the center of the Muslim world. It is the religious establishment in Saudi Arabia, who control the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, that has the greatest authority to define the laws of Islam. If they chose to reform, the rest of the Muslim world would follow.
But there is no sign of any such reform movement. The Saudi government has their own political reasons for not encouraging re-examination of the tenets of Islam.
13
The Gospel of John said it best: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Apparently, the Islamic Sultan of Brunei, who clearly worships in a different pew, didn't get that message. The question is what other nations will do about it, and whether it will even matter.
5
Okay, the Hollywood glitterati (or some tiny slice of it) will boycott luxury hotel properties owned by the Sultan of Brunei. This reinforces the Sultan's logic - he condemns what a literal reading of the Koran describes as immoral conduct worthy of death and the most highly visible representatives of that immoral system decry his action. Obviously, he can only conclude that he's on the right path. He wants the glitterati to condemn him.
The newsworthy aspect of this story is not the barbarity of Sharia law, but the hypocritical exemption money and power provided to Brunei's nobility.
4
"Do as I say, not as I do." It is the most basic fundamentalist hypocrisy no matter the basis. Along with those who rage against a group (like, say law and order presidents or anti-gay zealots) are likely doing so to distract attention away from themselves.
3
His title should read "The Sultan of Bru-tality!
2
The fairest thing would be to send the Marines and integrate Brunei with the adjacent and poorer states. We police the world so why not Brunei?
3
While I don't agree with the laws in which Brunei is currently pursuing. There is a point in which foreigners should never dictate how foreign nations govern or rule their populace. I am against stoning individuals to death as I believe they're better ways of getting your point across when it comes to certain groups of people who practice something you don't agree or want being practiced in your land. It seems to me as if it's always the non-religious or Christian individuals who go after Islamic nations, which is a very interesting thing I've notice. I won't get philosophical but its funny seeing people speaking on a holier than thou base, especially non-Muslim ones.
1
@Kervin Jacquet
So you don't agree with the law but you won't speak out against it and anyone who dares to speak out against it need pass some sort of purity test that apparently only you get to grade? Got it.
4
The sultan's imam hails from Saudi Arabia I believe and for the last 20 years wealthy and/or fundamentalist Gulf states have sent multitudes of religious advisors to what was once one of the most moderate and relaxed countries. The result? The archaic and brutal Islam practised in parts of the Gulf has become mainstream.
Wise countries need to step up and make persuasive counter arguments.
5
We as a nation have to stop buying oil from these types of nations period. They are not our allies no matter who many times that lie is repeated
4
@joe Hall Soooo True. We encourage so much behavior that we profess to abhor by buying the chemicals, drugs and oil that support the "sultans", "cartels" and "dictators" that stone, kill, enslave and abuse people in their own countries.
1
What hypocrisy for the cabal of wealthy donors to the Christian Shariah advocates who have declared imminent domain over every uterus in America. It is a violation of the First Amendment to legislate and enforce laws that codify religious beliefs, but it’s a great political issue for Republicans and demagogic religious.
Brunei and all other Sunni Salafist/Wahhabi monarchies have more than hypocrisy in common. They are tied to western banks, defense contracts, and corrupt politicians. They are our allies because we have no morals that do not subordinate women or support racism and inequality and corruption.
5
The Times is absolutely right. Death by stoning, amputation of a hand for theft: these are truly barbaric and revolting. I'd like to remind the Times's editorial board, however, that, here in the United States, we routinely amputate a body part of unconsenting minors for cultural reasons and for the "crime" of having been born male or intersex. The U.S. will have more moral authority to condemn human rights violations of others when we stop committing them ourselves.
3
Their country, their rules. It is none of our business.
2
@Simon We are doing business with them, that's the point. We patronize their hotels and take their oil.
6
@Simon Oh, and when Hitler decided that Germany must destroy all Jews?
The people and governments of the world need to speak up in the face of oppression and brutality committed against others regardless of where they live or under who's rule the abide. Silence is cowardly and gives permission to those tyrants to do whatever they choose.
2
@Vmur
We do business with much worse.
My family owns a boutique in Geneva Switzerland so we have met these lovely (ahem) folks. They really live in an alternate reality. The sultan’s oldest son (future crown prince) told my brother that he is not fond of Geneva because the city refused his “orders” to close the streets to traffic when he visits. Delusions of grandeur in the extreme...on top of their cruelty.
29
If morally honest people were imposing these laws, the laws would be OK?
2
"He has long pushed his predominantly Muslim nation toward a conservative and restrictive form of Islam."
The problem, it appears, is that Muslim nations don't seem to need much pushing in that direction. There is scant history of any Muslim nation adopting the Enlightenment ideals that drive Western democracies today. Those that made hesitant attempts to move away from rigid theocracy, Turkey and Iran for instance, have now reverted to form. And if anything was achieved by the Arab Spring it was the sad confirmation of the hopelessness of reform in the Islamic world.
7
I generally dislike most modern boycotts, at least the ones that get publicity. They are often just political and sometimes, in my view, completely wrong. More often than not, at least for the ones which get publicity (e.g., Alyssa Milano's quest for more abortions of viable babies or the vicious calls for shunning by Trump haters) they seem to be left-wing. Maybe the right-wing does too and they just can't get the media to cover it.
But, this is a boycott I can get behind, even if I was never likely to stay at those fancy-schmancy places anyway. The law is repulsive and murderous.
There are many countries, mostly in the Middle East and Africa where these and other horrific laws exist to punish sexual behavior. I wouldn't go to these places anyway - most people don't, but I would not mind our country exerting political or financial pressure. We know, of course, the problem. Where we aren't - Russia and China have no such scruples. Nothing is easy.
3
Classic authoritarian ploy. Use religion to distract.
My favorite one is from the 80s. There was civic unrest in Sudan over the economic hardships. The ruler’s response was: ban mix bathing... such a temptation for all men for which society was suffering.
5
On the long list of benefits of a carbon tax, this falls below keeping sea level rise below 25 feet and saving coral reefs, but still makes the list: lower profits for royal families like these.
3
There is something called sanctions which the US regularly applies against countries it doesn't like. Couldn't such sanctions be applied against this country, or would this upset the world order of finance and private bankers, not to mention defence interests ??
19
do you really think the Trump administration would do such a thing? They're all Christian moralists--just ask them ! More likely, they would love to adopt some of Brunei's draconian laws to this country, if they could get away with it.
1
@Jay
Our Sultan has no interest in human rights......just look at our southern border!
1
Decades ago, I remember reading that a number of Asian nations decided not to send representatives to an international conference on human rights. One of them (or maybe several, jointly) issued a press release saying that the conference was not relevant to them because "human rights are a Western concept".
Even now, we have to fight for them harder than ever, at least in this country, and battles we thought we had won need to be won again. It's all a great shame.
27
I remember during a economic downturn their airports were full of abandoned cars and people escaping without passports any way possible.
1
Hmmmmm - I can see aspirations for this out of Trump Tower. The profile fits as do the aspirations and affinities.
15
Should we expect an invitation to the White House for the sultan?
I, of course, object to any one person having such wealth, but who are we to instruct another country as to what is just or not just, and that they must live according to our rules?
4
@Jim Tagley - I refer you to Meditation XVII by John Donne (1572-1631) which reads in part:
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
13
@Jim Tagley
"We" are their customers and business partners and if "We" don't agree with what they are doing, "We" have every right to tell them and quit doing business with them.
7
@Jim Tagley
This barbarity, like the kind that took root in Nazi Germany, is the reason for the United Nations and International Law and Tribunals. As a world, we came together in 1945 and pledged we would never again let autocratic regimes rule this way. It is an archaic politic that wages brutal savagery against human beings. Trump aside, we are obliged to instruct other countries on the limits of autocratic abuse of power. They live under our rules because the world says so. They live under our rules to prevent the type of limitless punishments they inflict on innocent people. The Islamic State (ISIL) uses Sharia law to justify their inhumanity against man, just as the Sultan uses it. And there is nothing in the Koran that allows for this barbarity. So that is why we are obliged "to instruct another country as to what is just and what (is) not just."
3
It is right to speak out against abuses of authority and amoral disregard for individuals who do not seek to do harm.
While 'elites' and large corporations may, in an immediate sense, be able to modify the Sultan's behavior by using the tools of capitalism in a good way, we ought not to leave it to them alone to fix the problem. Doing so would be similar to ignoring abuse taking place in the home next door for the sake of our own domestic tranquility.
9
The question that needs answer is how much of our hospitality industry is still owned domestically? How much of what we think of as American is not?
24
The story of those is power being completely above their own laws is as old as the written word. He's the sultan: the bottom line is that he can do whatever he wants. Celebrities are right to call attention to Brunei, but boycotting the sultan's USA hotels will have zero. actual. effect. on the sultan and his rule.
5
@K Henderson It might have an an actual effect, however, on a potential customer's self-respect.
27
Hypatia: But it wont have that affect. If you know and then stay at the hotel anyway. Not sure what your point is -- it is contradictory.
It’s a start.
Shariah law, and even harsh Shariah law, and luxury, conspicuous or otherwise, are not mutually exclusive.
The question is what one does with the luxury and a Rolls Royce and a large palace are not infringements of Islamic religious law.
4
@Joshua Schwartz it's been alleged that the Prince's menage regularly indulges in the very crimes that are now punishable by stoning. Very few people with such luxury just meditate in their gilded palaces, they buy whatever they want with the money and I am not talking about handbags and executive jets.
1
Did you read the article? It said that the sultan’s family flout sharia law themselves.
1
@Joshua Schwartz Oddly, while the Muslim prophet kept a string of wives (including his "favorite," nine-year-old Aisha) and sex slaves, and took at least a fifth of the loot of every raid he ordered, he was reported to have lived very modestly.
2
Religious extremism is such an excellent tool to control the masses. But here is another huge reason to move quickly away from fossil fuels.
90
@Hal Donahue
As the mother of a gay son, my next car will be electric.
Enough is enough.
5
And what's the solution according to George Clooney, Elton John and the international celebrity set? Diplomacy? Collective action by the global political community? Nope. It's to throw thousands of hotel workers residing in London and Paris and Los Angeles out of work. After all, Ellen DeGeneres can check in to other luxury hotels en route to her next cause célèbre. And we ask ourselves how Trump got elected?
17
@RMW
Trump got elected because celebrities take a moral stand on issues even if the solutions seem ill-advised or unworkable? That's why people voted for Trump??
I think that says more about Trump voters than it does about George Clooney or Elton John.
81
And what is your proposed solution? Their action may be ineffectual and indeed hurt the hotels’ employees, but blame rests not with the celebrities but the Brunei government. By the way, I certainly wouldn’t want to work for an employer who thinks we are still living in the first century.
65
@Hugh CC
Ah, my misguided, fellow progressive. So, by your logic, celebrities not taking a moral stand will defeat Trump in the next election? Anyway, I know, it's only a few hotel workers to be sacrificed to a greater cause. Tell that to the single mother of three children who loses her back breaking job cleaning rooms at The Beverly Hills Hotel so that the egos of a few narcissistic celebrities can be fed. Is this the solution to Brunei's barbaric policies? Trump was elected because the corrupt Clinton alternative long ago lost its genuine connection to those millions of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. Obama's great legacy needs to be reclaimed within the Democratic Party, not by feel good nonsense, but by intelligent thinking, hard work and real leadership.
American, Canadian and British universities can do their part by not accepting financial contributions from petro-states.
It is a bit complicated about whether royal family members from petroleum-states should be educated in western colleges. It is tempting to shun these people entirely, but if they come here then perhaps they might shed some of their hateful values?
32
@Cousy
I will tell you what—I still cannot understand how NYU has a facility in Dubai. I was sitting at one of their recruitment sessions open mouthed. They would send gay students to Dubai for education? NYU? Are you kidding me???????
2
@Gwe
The NYU campus is in Abu Dhabi, which is different. I know a student there - a 3rd culture kid who doesn't understand how limiting NYU Abu Dhabi will be for her.
2
Gwe,
Money talks! Not just NYU either but a bunch of prestigious schools.
2
I did my part I bought an electric car and don’t participate in the world oil market on a personal level.
37
Oil, unfortunately, is use for much more than just refining it into petrol. Plastics, anyone?
44
@Ellen only about 4% of the oil production goes towards plastics manufacturing. But even if humankind stopped using oil altogether, I don't think it would change the middle East royal families behavior. It's not about morality, it's about control.
11
@Chris What makes you think that the electricity your car uses is produced without oil? And is your computer hooked directly to a wind turbine? We're all in it whether we like it or not.
12
It seems to me that were he to actually carry out any of these draconian penalties, he and any of his family involved in the Government should be charged with crimes against humanity. Then if any of those people travel to or transit through countries that are signatories to the treaty that established the International Court at the Hague, they should be subject to arrest and trial. Furthermore, their assets abroad should be seized and held in a compensation fund for the victims of their crimes.
116
@Daniel Can we get our current administration charged too? The children taken away from their parents at the border are truly innocent victims.
4
@Daniel
should... should... should...
1
@Daniel I get your point and there is plenty of bad behavior to go around. But if we dig in our heels about particularly egregious behavior abroad, maybe we'll begin to exercise a little more self reflection. So, for example, at the end of WWII, African - American troops came back from Europe after fighting for Democracy and Human Rights and came home where they had none. The irony did not escape most people, including President Truman who then integrated the Federal Government and the military and tried to get a Civil Rights Bill through Congress.
2
Odd story. A Saudi prince in London committed some pretty serious crimes, murder, drug use - there was a gay element, and apparently he may have eaten some of the victim - all of this took place in a 5-Star Hotel and was covered in the newspapers extensively, especially the tabloids.
What was not covered became known in the legal community - it was the odd clash over diplomatic immunity. In short, the prince had a diplomatic passport - and both the Saudis and the British Government supported the assertion of diplomatic immunity - the consequence of which would have been non-prosecution, but rapid deportation as a persona non-grata. Curiously, the prince's defence counsel opposed diplomatic immunity, arguing it was a personal right, which his client could waive, and indeed wanted to, presumably to plead guilty. Seems returning to Saudi Arabia wasn't an attractive option....even compared to a UK jail.
He was ultimately deported without being convicted.
17
@MacK And his name was...…….?
3
Thank you for declaring that “‘this is the way we do it’ is no longer a viable excuse for cruelty and barbarism anywhere.” If enough of us share that conviction, we can discuss fundamental moral questions with a modicum of confidence and hope, free from multiculturalist inhibitions.
29
@Longestaffe While I understand your point, we will have to apply this rule to ourselves. One example is the U.S. Virgin Islands, where "the way we do it" is supposed to explain stupendous political corruption, systemic incompetence, cultural sloth, disinterest in education, majority dependence on food stamps and Medicaid, and uncontrolled violence that exceeds Chicago's on a per capita basis. The response? "Go back to the mainland, colonial." Lots of us do.
I don't stay in the luxurious hotels owned by Brunei so I don't need to make a decision about boycotting them. But I would like George Clooney to tell me which brands I should avoid buying among companies manufacturing in China who use prisoner or children labour. This to me would be very useful and have more impact for those of us who buy clothing and everyday products.
39
Getting at the real issues here!
1
Well here is a good reason to get angry at US environmental groups which are using their money and public relations expertise to stop pipelines in Canada. The less ethical oil Canada exports the richer blood oil countries get.
5
@Peter B
Hm, is Canada the sole source of more ethical oil? Perhaps you're too much of a nationalist to have asked that question?
Consider general reduction in the need for oil, whether Albertan or Bruneian, which "environmental groups" should be deeply concerned about in any case, no?
Nationalism blinds many of us, in many ways.
As an expat American, I come face to face with it all the time.
It's one of the reasons I live outside the US of A, beyond that particular bubble ... just not beyond all bubbles, of course.
20
@Peter B
The Alberta tar sands are an ecological disaster with an outsized impact on global warming. If you have any respect or reverence for our planet and it’s denizens, you can hardly call Canadian shale oil “ethical”.
23
@Peter B I'd agree, except that Canadian Tar Sands are absolutely filthy, even by fossil fuel standards. They are among the most ridiculously carbon intensive energy sources available because so much energy is wasted just in mining and extracting the stuff.
So no, Canadian Tar Sands are not an ethical alternative.
They world has more than enough relatively clean oil and gas reserves to power the transition away from fossil fuels. The worst fuel sources, including coal and Tar Sands, should just be left in the ground. It is stupid to burn them.
Google "Business Insider Tar Sands" for a number of stories on how shockingly bad Canadian Tar Sands are. (Business Insider is not exactly a liberal hippy rag. But they do have a conscience and a clue)
3
It's high time for regime change, moving the exploiters to more modest accommodations with barred windows, and distributing their underserved riches to the public by outside intervention.
62
@AH and when shall we begin to practice these actions in our own very inequitable society?
14
@AH
The election to replace Trump will be more than a year from now.
2
@ it was the propping up of these potentates by the USA that so vexed Osama Bin Laden.........not surprising really he was never given a fair trial although the USA managed that for Hitler's cronies; standards have fallen since.
The editorial calls on Western states like Britain to use their influence and leverage to temper the behavior of leaders like the Sultan of Brunei. But the editorial fails to note the ways in which the Western states are squandering their moral authority. Young blacks are killed by police, much of the time with impunity. American drones are dropped throughout much of the world on innocent people. The British government has a policy of deporting people from places like Jamaica who were encouraged to move the Britain 50 years ago to take jobs that local people didn't want. It's hard to complain about the splinter Brunei's eye when the Western eye is filled with motes. If we want to exercise moral authority, we should pay more attention to our own shortcomings.
96
@Che Beauchard, I'm really tired of this argument. I hope all nations condemn barbarities like stoning because they support human rights. No one argues that Western states are perfect--we have plenty of sins that we need to atone for. But that doesn't mean that nations can't speak up when an autocrat stones gay men or another autocrat murders his political enemies us9ing exotic poisons.
18
@Che Beauchard Regardless of our own shortcomings which are undeniable, they do NOT compare with the savage and inhumane and grotesque laws that a false "sultan" is imposing on his subjects, who are little more than slaves to his will. Don't even TRY to compare.
5
@Che Beauchard
This is precisely the kind of fallacious thinking that typifies the contemporary chattering classes--the instinctive reflex for self-blame far beyond reasonable self-criticism and as a substitute for discriminating and discerning thought and judgment.
6
The theocrats here in the U.S. are of the same mind, if truth be told.
Of course these zealots don't realize they're awakening forces long hidden or forgotten.
To quote James Baldwin, "The most dangerous creation in any society is the man who has nothing to lose".
137
@Stephen ah the mob ! A society is only as stable as the condition of its poorest ? Let them eat cake ?
1
@Stephen,
Seriously? Which zealots would stone me? Let me know, so I can buy myself a gun.
5
They may hate gay people here but our government is not going to stone or amputate people. Plus we can speak ill of them and not be executed. Come on, now.
4
I find it hard to name of a single petro-state with a leader much different than the Sultan. It saddens me to know that the only reason we will eventually part ways with all these despots is to save our own skins, not to hold any one of them accountable for their numerous transgressions to humanity.
237
@Mr. B, long have we progressive given a pass to certain countries that offer no human rights to women, gays, atheists, Jews and Christians.
This is the prejudice of low expectations. It is time to speak the truth.
6
@Joe Yoh
Islam has laws which are at odds with American laws. Yet somehow American so called “progressives” think it is appropriate to project their beliefs beyond US borders onto Islamic states?
THIS is what’s wrong with the “new left”. It’s not enough to live in a society with laws that allow gay people to marry and have equal rights under the law. You want to impose your beliefs on every breathing person, every society, and punish anyone who doesn’t share your beliefs and justify it by insisting you’re standing up for what’s right and human rights.
Maybe someday, the Sultan of Brunei will have no market for his oil. He will have to figure out what to do with his oil. Fossil hydrocarbons might be replaced by solar and wind power. Let us hope it is sooner rather than later.
330
@Tigerman Yes, and that day of replacement should have long since come. How often have Western powers painted themselves into a diplomatic corner because of their (or their allies') dependence on oil for energy or profit? How long ago could we have weaned ourselves from this habitable-climate destroying substance in everyday life? Then let the autocrats, royal or otherwise, in the Middle East, in Asia, in Russia see how many palaces they can force their people or immigrants to build with the proceeds from selling a liquid that would be less valuable than lemonade. But while bemoaning the trillions it would cost to convert now (would have been cheaper before), though it would also mean new jobs and savings in dealing with worsening climate disasters that are coming, we haven't done nearly enough, so the leverage remains with the autocrats.
56
If we didn't put all our might into solar energy during the Arab Oil Embargo in the 1970s, we never will. Fifty years later, we could have been beaming energy down from satellites.
Science fiction, perhaps -- but we didn't even try.
16
@Gnirol Yes....we have our own autocrats to add to the list. The wars for oil were a big mistake; their cost would have de carbonised global energy etc etc Blair really could nt see where his climate change rhetoric led....the Irag War should be called the 2nd Carbon War.
3
The sultan may not be the most pious individual alive. Yet he is entitled to rule and implement any law accepted in his dominion. Anybody who is not comfortable should not visit his country.
Why don’t people like Clooney speak up for all the other atrocities committed elsewhere in the world.
6
@Kar, what does "accepted in his dominion" mean? Does it mean he's an autocrat with absolute power of life and death? Is that accepted by the citizens of Brunei, or do they have any choice?
I applaud George Clooney's activism. I'm glad to learn which hotels Brunei owns--I'll be avoiding all of them. (Btw, Clooney speaks up for victims of atrocities throughout the world.)
217
I suppose you are right, although it is a different question as to whether the people in his dominion wish to be ruled this way - although this isn't much of a measure of "leaders" across the world these days.
In the case of Brunei, it appears that the Sultan is seeking to ensure a legacy with hardline Islamists (similar to another oil-producing nation starting with S.)
As for your point about visiting, I also agree, and I won't be going there again - I will add it to the list of countries I feel I cannot conscience going to because of the criminal, morally bankrupt way their governments work (places like China, Israel, Saudi, UAE etc, Myanmar and the US.) Not even for one of the best-paying government teaching programs in the world. Not a perfect response to not a perfect world, if you believe 1 person can still do some good, but the only choice I can justify to myself. It should be far easier to make a choice about staying in hotel, even considering the impact on the people who work there...
15
@Kar
I for one am kind of sick of the Clooney-bashing over this. (And I am not particularly a fan.) Why not blame the 5 or 6 billion people who are doing nothing rather than one of the few who is? His gesture might hurt no more than a mosquito bite, but it helps raise awareness.
61
The Sultan has absolutely fabulous clothing, and perfectly sculpted facial hair. Just saying.
136
@Phyliss Dalmatian
By far, the best comment!
7
@Phyliss Dalmatian And a soul that looks like a dead lizard's hide baking on the roadside in Death Valley in mid July.
8
omg no. The loose long shirts are to cover his belly and his face is far too thin and small to support his facial hair choice. The clothing looks cheap on top of it all.
2
"'This is the way we do it' is no longer a viable excuse for cruelty and barbarism anywhere": that's an admirable principle, and we wish US administrations were more consistent and courageous in following it. To be sure, there's lots that's deplorable as well in US governance and in the attitudes of many US citizens. But provided we're honest about our own moral failings, we ought not remain craven and silent when we observe the injustices suffered by others in other countries.
43
@Mark Caponigro, compared to for example Brunei, are we so deplorable?
women, gays, atheists, Christians, Jews, Muslims all have human rights, free education, and lots of social services
Oh, and a vote. and opportunity.
to compare the US and Brunei and cast stones at the US, one must have a twisted moral compass.
2
Mark,
Comments like yours illustrate why liberals are, in some ways, no better than conservatives. I doubt you’d find an editorial in the WSJ criticizing Brunei’s antigay legislation. The Times speaks up, and way too many liberal commenters imply that it shouldn’t. Liberals and conservatives, united in not condemning antigay laws!
2