Wow the police lie and tell clients how they could get 7 years in prison, yet most people convicted of solicitation of prostittion on the first offense, just get probation and a fine. Also note that the clients are not soliciting anyone for a sex act, they are simply booking an appointment with an escort which is completely legal. This will only lead to more clients using burner phones and escorts wont be able to screen and violence towards sex workers will increase. Sadly the police don't care about the health and safety of people involved in adult entertainment. Amazing the police claim they don't have funds to test rape kits but they have plenty of money to stalk online escorts and their clients.
4
If I see this misguided argument again, I'm going to shout. OK, here goes:
"THE 'SEX TRAFFICKING' IN THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT UNWILLING AND OFTEN UNDERAGE SEX WORKERS."
Capisce? It isn't about sex workers who do so willingly. It seems like every third post or so conflates the two, in direct contradiction to what the article says.
Prostitution between consenting adults is a different discussion altogether.
1
@mlbex But the tactic does not discriminate between the two. That's what people are concerned about.
4
@oregon_trail: The article makes that clear, but many people's posts do not. That's where I see the misguided argument that I shouted about.
1
"Prostitution is not a job. The inside of a woman’s body is not a workplace"
Julie Bindel
3
I think everyone can agree that sex trafficking of underage women (or men) is utterly horrific. No matter the age, no one should be forced into work they don't want to do. Period. However, it's important not to conflate sex trafficking with sex work done by adults who have chosen to earn a living this way; people who simply don't want to be harassed or have their potential customers harassed. If anyone would actually take the time to listen to adult sex workers (or read their blogs or books, or listen to the podcast "Sold in America"), instead of simply moralizing from the sidelines, they would realize that many sex workers not only feel that they're treated worse by the police and "normal" guys in the dating world than they are by their customers, but also feel that there are many other forms of employment that are far more debasing than selling sex. The best thing the NY legislators can do to actually help and not harm sex workers is to legalize and heavily regulate prostitution so that sex workers can make a living the way they choose, and have the option of seeking protection from authorities if they encounter trouble.
2
This approach has some merit, but I believe that we should be recruiting Johns to find trafficked women. A $10,000 reward and promises of privacy should be enough to find trafficked sex workers. Done right, they should be able to uncover major operations, freeing several women for each $10,000 reward. This has to be cheaper than hiring squads of police going after prostitution.
It's hard for me to believe that men could be so cruel as to not want to help these women--but their help needs to be risk free as helping could be as embarrassing as arrest.
2
A lot of anxious men fretting about 'entrapment' in these comments! Hilarious.
I think this is a great program, and I applaud Tina Rosenberg for another fascinating look at how sex trafficking is being combatted. That the man's response to hearing she was FIFTEEN was "Yeah no worries baby," and that these men are more worried about being arrested or fined than about whether the girl they're buying is a victim of trafficking tells you all you need to know about the kind of men who buy sex. Unlike a trafficked teenager, they are free to make the choice to purchase another human being for their own sexual usage - and they deserve to face the consequences of their choice.
19
@Laura This would be a great program if all the responses triggering police action were to ads or exchanges that gave some indication (or even vague implication) that the advertiser was underage or subject to exploitative working conditions.
Are all the cases in question of that nature? Did not come away with a sense of that crucial piece of context from the article.
2
Your online comment here that indicates that you tolerate or condone illegal sex trafficking or underage prostitution has been logged.
3
And that's the problem. Why don't you go after the Russian and Chechen crime families trafficking in the first place? Prostitution should not be a crime, it's a proven fact in the Netherlands.
1
Upon finishing this article, I thought to myself with amusement, “ now off to the comments section to listen to the men squawk...” Just sayin’ I wasn’t wrong :)
1
Beyond critiquing the ethics of this approach, what happens when a suspect uses an innocent person's number as a cover?? How many innocent lives will be ruined by this? Typical liberal overpolicing.
1
What a stupid waste of the tax payers ' money as well as the time of law enforcement officers. There is no more possibility of ending prostitution than one can prevent a woman from getting an abortion if she wants one. Realty should be recognized by legalizing what cannot be prevented, thereby establishing health and other safeguards to protect both the buyers and sellers of such services. Morality is a personal concern - society's concern is the welfare of its members in their pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.
1
Gosh -- this is going to make the incels really angry! They already feel so entitled to sex from women and girls. The only thing worse than a passive creepy incel is an fearful and angry incel.
1
Legalize it
2
Decriminalize now!
2
While the federal government is awash in a toxic mixture of evil and incompetence, it is nice to know that there are governmental entities doing the right thing in a smart way!
Kudos to the NYPD.
1
Finally! Technology used to disrupt the bad guys, instead of technology used to spy, steal an election or an identity. Put your thinking caps on, girls and boys of technology. It's about time tech got a reputation for solving social problems.
13
Instead of the police wasting their time on consensual sex (trafficking an underage is another matter), why don't they concentrate on real crime?
How about bots soliciting CEO's for illegal toxic waste dumping? Lying about drug test results? The best places to launder money? New carcinogenic pesticides?
Now, we're talking.
2
So long as prostitution remains illegal this technique seems to be a relatively low cost and efficient law enforcement technique. However, I believe that prostitution should be legalized and regulated (and taxed). Coercion of sexworkers and patronizing underage sexworkers should remain illegal and the focus of law enforcement resources.
Yes. Hold people accountable. Please!
So many comments confuse a sting operation with the legal defense of "entrapment."
Entrapment is not a defense where the defendant is behaving as he always does and the police are just positioning themselves to prove it.
The government cannot give a man an appetite for child sexual abuse. I am shocked that so many NYT subscribers immediately feel sympathy for men soliciting sex with 15 year olds.
30
Sex trafficking is a subset of prostitution.
It's debatable whether prostitution itself should be legalized or not. If women are of age and willing to sell their favors, that might be OK.
But having sex with underage persons is clearly illegal, and forcing or manipulating anyone to work in that industry against their will is evil. We need to be clear about the difference.
As for the argument that legal prostitution increases the demand for sex workers, and therefore encourages sex trafficking, if prostitution were not a crime, then the police could spend more time ferreting out the sex traffickers instead of busting the willing sex workers and their johns. It is easier to regulate something that is legal.
All that said, we need to be careful how the police operate in the cyber world. But really, how stupid do you have to be to click an ad for a meetup on a porn site? You're computer's going to get infected, you could get blackmailed (see the recent news about a British hacker who did just that to millions), and you're leaving evidence that you're conspiring to do something illegal, especially if it offers "younger" girls.
1
We’re all prostitutes, but some how just the ones buying and selling sex are criminals?
BTW how many nail salons, hotels, construction sites , Big Agra operations, etc. rely on human trafficking to supply cheap, illegal labor? Why do the 1000$/ hour escorts seem to rarely get caught up in 5-0 dragnets?
Perhaps this has less to do w genuine concern for the real victims of human slavery , and more to do with scoring “ holier-than-thou” whitewash points with the suffragettes, Temperance Women, feminazis, and religious zealots . A Puritan is someone who is mortified than another person, somewhere, is having a good time. The American Taliban want to make sure such libertines pay a heavy price for their pleasure.
Further, if LE spent half as much time and money rooting out racists and killers from their ranks, and establishing an actual, credible training program (2 years, not 6 months) for recruits, America might begin to just barely approach some semblance of a just society.
2
The dudes who are freaking out in this comment section are hilarious. If prostitution is so wonderful and should be legalized, why not let your daughters sign up? Your mom? Your sister? I thought so. Your privilege is showing. More power to these bot makers.
5
Legalize Prostitution
1
I am wondering where feminism shifted from loving sexworkers and respecting them and welcoming them -- to this notion that all sexwork is human trafficking and must be destroyed. To me this is all venturing into right wing territory of women lacking sovereignty over their bodies. And it remains legal for a man to take a woman out to a $300 dinner and she has sex with him on that basis...or rents her an apartment and that's just fine...but if cash is transacted it's a felony? I'm not following this.
4
@Eric Francis Coppolino I'm not sure this is the result of feminism as much as it is a result of law enforcement. It's possible that I missed something, and I'm open to any info you can offer that supports that assumption.
3
good job IT solution.
I actually was thinking the story might be about the stupid scam email I received demanding bitcoin ransom because my laptap was hijacked and 'they' had pictures of me watching adult videos and etc....
I reported it to my ISP and haven't seen another one since...
Lots of top rated comments from guys who are just outraged they can’t buy a woman safely and legally whenever they want one. As per usual with any Times article on the subject.
Always, too, it’s guys framing it as an issue of women’s safety and empowerment. Sure, they want prostitution to be safe, clean, legal, convenient, abundant, and shame-free ... for the Johns. It’s just not cool to say it out loud, though. You have to pretend a sudden and intense concern for the plight of society’s most powerless women and girls. Every time the Times runs an article on trafficking, we are treated to the spectacle of MRAs who magically turn into single-issue sex-positive “feminists.”
Cut the hypocrisy, gents. You want a selection of clean and willing girls, pick and choose by race, age and weight, lined up in the window of every corner store, all acts offered, at a reasonable price, with nobody giving you stink eye when you walk in and out. You do not in any way care about the well-being of the product, so quit lying to us and yourselves.
4
@Glen Wait, hold on. Proponents of legalized sex work, whenever articles on the topic arise, invariably include sex workers. When whichever act passed that resulted in Craigslist closing their personal section, it wasn't johns writing OpEds and speaking in interviews about the danger they're being exposed to. It was also, by and large, a position that had significant feminist support - as, whether it's convenient for men who would like to pay for consensual sex without going to jail or not, there are legitimate arguments as to whether society is doing more harm than good by criminalizing prostitution.
I don't know anything about the typical john (if there is such a thing), but I feel like it's unfair to assume that every or even most men or women who solicit prostitutes do so without consideration of who they're dealing with and their situation. I don't think it's the most relevant point either way, as our stance on the phenomenon should evolve or not on more pertinent bases than "oh, isn't that convenient for you," but nevertheless, I think it's not helpful to characterize anyone involved in the sex industry in any regard in such a broad, sweeping manner.
2
Prostitution is the ultimate in the oppression and humiliation of women. How many prostitutes are murdered every year? The number of prostitutes merely beaten and robbed can't be counted.
It is not the pretty world that some imagine.
3
The number of men feeling imperiled by tightening commercial sex laws is astonishing.
Instead of buying a one time object for your sexual release, why don't you invest some effort in cultivating a relationship (gasp) that includes sex with a person you'd like to know?
Marking notches on your shorts is not the behavior of a well adjusted adult.
Regarding sex as just another thing purchased degrades the woman or child you use for self gratification, and degrades you to the animal level.
Grow up.
3
Why is prostitution more dangerous when it is illegal? Because by making the prostitute a criminal you deter them from seeking the protection of law enforcement. There is, has and always will be money to be made from prostitution. Would you rather those who engage in this activity do it legally and avail themselves of law enforcement if they are harmed or make them a criminal so that they feel compelled to seek the protection of a criminal pimp?
1
It is perfectly legal for a man to have sex with a consenting adult woman. It is also perfectly legal for a man to give money to another person, woman or otherwise. But somehow, when you put these two legal acts together, it magically becomes a crime.
2
Prostitution has to be crime, otherwise men would never marry. A rational man would have to be very cautious before risking 1/2 his assets and making alimony payments forever. Prostitution laws exist to force men to marry.
From a woman’s standpoint, since the first caveman gave berries to an attractive woman in return for sex, women have brought sex to the table - in exchange for money/financial security.
It so humorous to read women decide other women are such mental infants that other women shouldn’t be permitted to use their own bodies as want. As usual, liberals are the most intolerant of all.
1
Reply to Sam, most people want love and many people want a family.
~
As a married woman, with married female friends and relatives, yes I recognize that part of my scorn of prostitution is absolutely defending my own interests. But the world of (faithfully) married women is the world of family, and of women and children. There’s huge downsides with prostitution — potential trafficking, disease, children born of ‘tricks.’
What good comes of prostitution? The women doing it don’t seem to get to a stable, happy place in life. Men can regret it greatly, especially if they pass on STDs to their wives, who may suffer greater consequences from that than the males.
In the theoretical best case scenario a woman would make money and a man receive entertainment. What value does entertainment that spreads disease and illegitimacy really have though? Is it worth legalizing and legitimizing it from society’s standpoint? If a roller coaster or drug had the same risks as prostitution, it would never be legalized!
I don’t support draconian punishments. In Canada, where I live, I think johns are mostly sent to a course on the actually desperate lives of prostitutes. Their names can also be made public. This seems about fair.
Since the average age of these trafficked females is 17 I am all for doing whatever we can to stigmatize and frighten the sick and pathetic men who buy and sell girls.
3
We should legalize sex work and regulate it to protect women and reduce the spread of disease.
What about all the women soliciting male prostitutes and trafficked young boys? Shouldn't we be going after them?!
Just kidding. Of course, women don't do this. And if you found a woman who did this it would be the ultimate example of statistical insignificance.
No, this disgusting and gross behavior is SOLELY the domain of men just as most of the world's most heinous criminal activities are extremely over-represented by men. What is it about maleness that makes it so? Figure that out and you'll solve much of the world's ills.
Hopefully, the Chinese are already working on a "designer baby" that removes these highly negative antisocial traits from males.
2
A lot of comments from upset male NYT readers. The majority of these women and girls are tortured slaves.
5
@Chrome and Steel
Could you please provide a credible reference to bolster your claim that the majority of prostitutes are "tortured slaves?"
1
Is that what Jesus would do? Fake identity and entrap?
Another stupidity of the NYPD; probably overpaying a well connected developer of the add.
This is a social problem, that will get worse by criminalizing the wrong parts of the equation. Pursue and punish traffickers, not the sex workers or the johns.
And educate people about the horrors of human trafficking.
2
How many people who favor legalization would be happy if their child became a prostitute?
6
Where do Johns send their bribes? What is this? More bourgeois self-righteousness? Sex is used to sell everything (that includes the NY Times -- the hottest stuff in print is in the "Fashion" magazine). Find a way to protect people from sadism, cruelty, disease, exploitation (ah, well, the latter would mean the end of capitalism, we can't have that). So now the NYPD had an opening to hack into our private lives. How about cameras in every bedroom, bed? Back alley? Wherever sex is sold. Fooey.
1
Why is it that most of the comments that state this is entrapment are from men? Do they not get it that many of these prostitutes are under age and forced into it!!!
4
Ok so soliciting a 15 yr old is obviously wrong and anyone doing so should be in jail.
But porn is 100% legal and ubiquitous. So if a man looks to pay for the real thing with a consenting adult then he’s arrested. But if he’d hired a camera crew to film it then it would be legal and he’d be in the clear. Our laws need to change. Legalize prostitution and outlaw porn.
We have such double standards in this country. One the one hand we say how horrible it is to advertise tobacco products to kids yet here is this silly bot advertising sex to adults. If you put food in front of a dog the food will be eaten whether or not the dog is hungry. There is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of these men responding to the ads are not those who should be brought to justice. Stop dangling the sex carrot and go after the real criminals.
2
Kudos to the NYPD and other departments for trying to address this. There is always a risk that the sex worker you've contacted, either online or on the street, is working with law enforcement. And if you are stupid or desperate enough to believe what someone tells you in a chatroom, you deserve to be caught. Look on the bright side, it might shield you from contracting an STD.
1
For a much more realistic view of the claims over “human trafficking” and its associated moral panic. check out the writings of Maggie McNeill, the Honest Courtesan: https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/safety-in-numbers/
Sauce for the goose and for the gander. I hope they run the same thing for sellers of sex as for the buyers, since both are illegal.
1
"But that same study also found that legalization increased human trafficking, because the demand for commercial sex increased greatly."
I wonder if this has anything at all to do with the fact that we live in an age where everyone and their mother knows that their every single physical and digital footstep is, in some manner or other, being monitored, tracked, and traded on a data and law enforcement market like some kind of chattel. The other explanation is that people only solicit prostitutes if they know they can be arrested for it...
Criminalising prostitution drives the prostitutes into the dark, where pimps and sexually transmitted diseases thrive. Repression does not work. Same with drugs.
Prostitution should be legalized, state regulated, and taxed. Adult women and men who want to provide this service and those who want to use this service should be allowed to do so in a safe and healthy environment. Prices should be kept low enough to avoid a significant black-market in sex services. This should dramatically reduce sex trafficking and middlemen (pimps). Prosecuting the customers is NOT a good solution. It drives away customers from the women and men who want to earn money from sexual services. These are generally poorer women who need the money.
Men who pay large amounts of money for sex, or provide jewels, furs, and fancy cars are celebrated, but never prosecuted. Need I mention our commander-in-chief? It's the $100 transactions that are prosecuted.
Statistically, older women are sexually inactive at a much higher rate than older men. This leaves older men with a problem in maintaining a healthy sex life. Paying for sex helps these men, and the sex workers who perform this service.
2
It’s legal to pay for sex if you film it and then sell it as an “adult movie” but not just for personal reasons. What a country!
2
This is entrapment, because they are leading people into illegal behavior - not capturing them doing it, or finding evidence that they have.
Same tricks were used to catch gays - often by closeted self-hating police officers.
I'm really surprised that anything like this stands up in court.
3
What about these so called "Gentlemen club " s all over the country, selling women as if they were merchandise ?
Advertised in hotels, on taxis, in airports .
2
And when eventually police AI can read your mind and know you're thinking of doing something that the authorities have determined is wrong, it can just gently warn you to get your mind right. Utopia at our fingertips. Come on in, the water's fine.
I have been surprised that the governments shutdown of Backpage has not been challenged in court. How is this not an infringement on freedom of speech?
Where in the constitution does it say "unless we don't like what you're doing, saying, reading, thinking etc."
We are trillions of dollars in debt and this is what our tax dollars are going for? Legalize, and tax the sex trade; drugs too while we are at it.
Worried about underage and trafficking? That is why you legalize and regulate it. Prohibition makes problems worse.
You know what is obscene? Killing people in wars. Let's grow up already.
2
This approach is well and good if, and only if, the fake ads make it apparent that the girl is underaged or trafficked. But if the police are using this in cases where the advertisement just appears to be a run-of-the-mill adult sex worker and her customer, it’s a ridiculous waste of effort and potentially abusive. There seems to be a very unfortunate recent trend for those seeking to exercise the police power if the state to conflate sex trafficking with consensual sex work.
2
Well done everyone involved.
2
Sex among consenting adults should be a legal activity; we are no longer run by puritans, and the fact that it is still illegal is ludicrous. now the supposed justification for having adult sex illegal is to prevent trafficking, and to protect minors. But lets be honest--those against adult sex are primarily those who have a moral or religious objection, and they should not be allowed to foist their beliefs on the public.
Making sex between consenting adults legal would go a long way toward curtailing trafficking and underage prostitution.
PS--I think that having sex with strangers despite the real threat of STD's is ludicrous, but that's just an opinion.
4
It’s OK to be in a dead end job that doesn’t have a future as long as a person uses their body in a non-sexual way.
But if you use it in a sexual way for 15x the pay, the police are going to get you.
Because.....freedom.
4
This seems like an eternal game where the cops, prostitutes/ clients keep trying to outsmart each other. Chatbots can be easily found out if people exchange photos with themselves posing with say, that day’s newspapers. What then?
Legalizing this and protecting the vulnerable may still be the more sustainable long term solution.
1
This article does a good job of showing what men who seek prostitutes are like. They do not care about the women's welfare; they respond only to fear. As for "There is trafficking in the restaurant business as well, Mr. Thompson said, but no one argues we shouldn’t eat out." That should be a line from an Onion feature! Apparently Mr. Thompson considers women to be entrees and appetizers.
4
Yeah because real crimes aren't being committed in the streets.
This article mentions the harm that going to a prostitute can do to a man and his family. Does it harm men who are without a family? Seems that the harm that may befall most buyers is suffering the legal consequences. Whether it's marriage dating or prostitution there is still no honey without money, so allow men the freedom to decide their own level of convenience. Heavily prosecute pimping, let no man profit from trafficking sex. Allow women to have total control of their own bodies, and keep prostitution legal, safe, and enjoyable.
2
Human trafficking is not just for sex. And not all sex workers are victims of slavery, though they maybe victims in other ways. The article is not at all clear about this.
1
I think it's sad, to say the least, that there are so many men who are happy to pay women to have sex. But will someone please remind me why it should be illegal?
1
I support the efforts of the police to up the ante for those who would prey upon women. However, there is always a cost to any action, including those like this one which seem well focused and appropriately sized to the problem.
What I would not wish to see in an increasing cadre of incels who, lacking any release for human urges, turn to direct violence against women such as the Toronto van attack almost exactly one year ago.
We need to help those trapped in the sex trade whether as vendors or customers to live better and fuller lives free from exploitation at one end or vengeance at the other.
There's so much wrong with this story. Firstly, stop conflating human trafficking with consenting prostitution. These are not the same thing. Furthermore, the police really should not be using entrapment techniques.
2
No, it is not entrapment. In Sorrels v. U.S., the Supreme Court said entrapment is an illegal act "by one who would not have perpetrated it except for the trickery, persuasion or fraud of the officer or state agent." These johns are predisposed if not eager for sex; no one is tricking or forcing them to buy it.
1
"Even if they haven’t been forced into it, they have still chosen a dangerous and unpleasant vocation as the best of their bad options — which means they need more options."
This is the attitude of prostitution abolitionists, that sex workers need to be rescued from their bad choices, even if they are adults making their own decisions. It is often nonsense.
I began working as a prostitute when I was 29 in the Nevada brothels. After three years, I worked independently for another 22 years. I made good money, put myself through college, and traveled. I knew many others who made the business work for them.
I never appreciated this sort of condescending nonsense or the shaming of my customers by some self-righteous "moral" crusader. Consensual adult prostitution should not be a crime.
3
Reading over the comments, you have to wonder just how much of the 'outrage' (entrapment! police abuse of power!) written by commenters with masculine names/tags is driven by the realization that police may now have their numbers and they might be getting a text from the NYPD soon.
6
Never having chosen to engage a prostitute I have only third hand knowledge but it seems that legalizing and regulating prostitution would be much safer and better for the women and men involved. Plus coming down really hard on traffickers, by that I mean strictly enforcing mandatory life in prison no parole for any person pimping or trafficking an under age girl or boy and 30 years minimum for holding a person against their will for the sex traffic. Eliminate the involuntary part of the trade and regulate it.
1
Sex workers and sex trafficing are two seperate issues. Sex workers who make their own choice must not be under the umbrella of sex trafficing. All forms of slavery must be illegial.
2
And then there is the sanity of New Zealand. The only nation to have totally legalized sex work. The outcome is lowering trafficking, violence against sex workers, STDs, etc and on the upside the creation of a national collective of sex workers protecting their rights, etc.
http://www.nzpc.org.nz/The-New-Zealand-Model
2
This would only work for the NYPD until the Johns start using burner phones to text prostitutes. So much for identifying the Johns!
And the more technically inclined Johns will stymie the bots by inserting captchas in their texts. (Please confirm that you're not a robot!)
This program is dead as soon as the Johns find out about it.
NYPD has a bloated budget that still reflects the era when there were more than two thousand murders annually in NYC. So they find ways, like this, to spend that money.
1
So, you dont like prostitution. You want to stamp it out, is that the idea? Well guess what? That is not going to happen. We may not like it, but stamping out prostitution is as hopeless a task at getting rid of illegal drugs. Why not try something that will actually help? Let's legalize it. Then we can insure that no one is being coerced into doing it, that its safe and that people can have sex if they want to do so. And only if they want to do so.
3
Use a burner app for a temporary line = bot circumvented. See how easy that was? Now let’s get real about leaving consenting adults in peace.
1
This is great, even though it looks like something Joe Stalin would have dreamed up.
We really need to decide as a culture whether to legalize some form of prostitution controlled by the women themselves (for once.)
NOW let's get A.I. to imitate the communications involved in the tragic use of children in this awful form of bondage and slavery.
One step is never handing unattached children at the border to whatever people show up claiming to be relatives of the kids.
What on EARTH prompted Pres. Obama to DO such dangerous things anyway?
And, yet, Stormy Daniels was a heroine of the left just two years ago...
The private prison industry must be getting out the Champagne for this. There soon won't be anyone left to lock up.
Those who do not learn the lessons of the War on Drugs are doomed to repeat them.
1
When people's concern for 15 year old children being caused to have sex with grown men is near the concern for the johns who want to use them being "entrapped", there may be some hope to change the situation.
16
Creepy doesn't begin to describe this. Legalize prostitution for adults and be done with it.
2
New York gives warnings online, keep in mind that suburban and rural policing is geared toward making arrests. At street level, police conflate prostitutes and coerced sex workers: who cares, their both being manipulated by a pimp/"boyfriend". So far there is not the pressure to go after the johns to arrest them in most jurisdictions; there is active chat room "fishing" by some leo's to snag internet-based men who solicit from underage girls. The criminal code here is severe, even when an out-of-state male solicits a girl (she and parents etc. contact leo) subsequent texts are saved and used for prosecution. There is no contact whatsoever and their is no intent to warn the male. If he gets a warrant its now goes to the courts (1-3 yr prison). The problems about sex trafficking try to address a manifest problem of exploitation but the latent result is to generate support for more restrictive legislation to pressure leo's to focus on arrests. When the john sends a reply text, police can get his phone id. if they have a few texts they can take this to the prosecutor. So far police do not focus on arrests nationwide. But this could change given the prevailing sexual atmosphere; a rural adult man arrested for solicitation is perceived as almost the equivalent to molestation. The warning posts are reasonable without undue intrusion by the state. Concern for victim (and assistance) by interest groups is used by legislators to expand the net to make arrests.
So now sexworkers in NYC will be unable to contact clients using cellphones, which provided the sexworkers with some level of security because if something went wrong, they had a phone number to link to the customer. Now customers will insist on more anonymous forms of communication.
I’m not really sure that this counts as a success.
1
AI-enabled chatbots that can mimic human conversation will increasingly replace people. This story illustrates how convincing these tools are and how broad an impact this tech may have.
1
"Offering to pay or paying someone for sexual conduct is a crime and punishable by incarceration up to 7 years."
Victorian-era values at work. So many countries have taken a much more sensible approach to this.
4
I appreciate the intent, but this feels like entrapment, and feels poised to simply introduce more paranoia and violence into the world of prostitution. It is entirely the wrong approach to dealing with this issue. It also opens the door to using this approach to track and threaten dissidents, reporters, and the like. It leads us further into a world where we are tracked and spied upon at all times. Thats a high price to pay to stop a couple of johns.
5
Why is it that in my country prostitution is legal and not illegal (depending on the state) and there are no pimps and not a lot of sex- trafficking? (and. yes, the question of sex-trafficking has been looked at as part of the public debate on this topic here).
Once again, the USA seems to be behind the times and self-harming.
6
@Dave Australia has almost no illegal migrants coming into the country because it's an island with strong border protection. Hence, very little trafficking. That is a unique situation that applies nowhere else in the world.
You're wrong that there are no pimps. They're the owners of the big brothels in places like Surrey Hills. It's just they get called "businessmen".
1
@Dave:
Being behind the times and harming ourselves are two things the United States now specializes in. "Sad!"
2
If the police are so keen on dealing with this subject ( which appears to me to be a transparent attempt to gain more resources and cover up their other more egregious failures) then what about the current so-called president's activities with sex workers whose names have been well publicised?
5
I see it remains fashionable for the left to adopt the right's crusade against so-called "sex work." It's been re-branded "trafficking" in every case, apparently even the hypothetical situation in the op-ed which is pure, garden variety prostitution.
Furthermore it is so charmingly PC to reformulate the war in a way that makes it all "men's" fault. "If there is no demand..." groups like Demand Abolition intone, borrowing a bankrupt meme from the War on Drugs. This also completely ignores the existence of significant amounts of same-sex prostitution. What are we to make of that?
I'm sure, the vice officers in the city I grew up in (Seattle) will be mighty disappointed to have to apprehend pathetic, desperate men and quit arresting women. Before more women became vice detectives, it was quite common for male vice officers to engage in rather dubious and sketchy activities in the cheap motels that used to line Highway 99 in North Seattle. It was clear they preferred women.
This "commerce" involves everything from people who are forced into servitude against their will to college students taking money from "sugar daddies." It's a sign of downward mobility and declining opportunity, but the left never misses an opportunity to turn simple economic disadvantage into a crusade on men facilitated with phony labels and lies about what really is happening in the big picture. There must always be one victim, and one perpetrator. Never zero, or two.
4
So many comments here talk about “consenting adults.” Consent is not enough. It is not the minimum bar.
Is it okay to consent not to wear a seat belt? No, because society has to pay if you crash and get hurt. The same with sex.
Just because both parties are adults and agree doesn’t make it okay. What if a child is fathered? There was a recent article in The Guardian about the children of white johns in Asia. Sex is serious partly because its natural outcome is children — thus it potentially involves an innocent third party. We can say ‘oh, there’s birth control, there’s abortion.’ But desperate or drug addicted women are the ones most likely to make poor choices.
As well, promiscuous sex, whether paid for or not, spreads disease — something we all bear the consequences for in society (see examples of babies born blind from syphilis; the rise of drug resistant gonorrhoea; and teenage girls sentenced to a lifetime of pelvic inflammatory disease by chlamydia). Prostitution normalizes sex without context, sex as a commodity, without regard to the consequences or meaning of the act.
And easy sex makes adulterous behaviours more common, potentially tearing apart otherwise solid families — leading to all the social problems single parenthood brings with it.
Lastly, sex is a pantomime of submission and domination, to at least some extent. To engage in submission in uncontrollable and dangerous circumstances is psychologically damaging for many of these women.
2
A.I. can be used for many things, and soon it will be key to freeing humans from centuries of confusion, deception, and ignorance. In the near future, we will program the human mind in the computer based on a "survival" algorithm, which will provide irrefutable proof as to how we trick the mind with our ridiculous beliefs about what is supposed to survive - producing minds programmed de facto for destruction. These minds see the survival of a particular belief as more important than the survival of us all. When we understand all this, we will begin the long trek back to reason and sanity.
See RevolutionOfReason.com
1
I agree that targeting Johns is a good thing and using technology is a fine way to do it.
What is hypocritical is that there are perfectly legal escort agencies where trafficking still happens, only with a business license.
One could make the argument it's the perpetrator who chooses the path law enforcement is sure to follow. If pay-to-play sex takes to social media, John Law will as well.
A chat 'bot on the web providing a warning with a link to counseling is way cheaper than a sting operation on the street. Plus, the encounter doesn't end with a ride downtown... It ends with a word to the wise.
Your move, dude. Make the most of it.
3
I never used such services and it does not appeal to me, but it is archaic and not worthy of a democracy to make prostitution a crime. What is this, Iran? Selling sex as a service should be no different than selling other services like cleaning or working in an office. I'm happy I live in a country where prostitution is completely legal, taxed and regulated.
5
Don't confuse prostitution with slavery. Slavery is already against the law, so prosecute trafficking, sex rings, etc. to the fullest. Prostitution on the other hand, if engaged in freely, and no other laws are broken (i.e., laws against underage sex) should be legal. What two consenting adults do in private is none of the government's business. Haven't we been through this before, with gay sex?
4
On what planet is a woman selling sex considered human trafficking? That's the equivalent of saying that one person passing a marijuana joint to share with someone else while asking them to chip in a few dollars is a case of drug trafficking and narco-terrorism/violence. The many daily instances in New York where people ask strangers for a loose cigarette in exchange for a dollar isn't tobacco smuggling either.
Congrats on perpetuating the stigma and criminalization of sex workers and people who are desperate/lonely enough to resort to paying for it. And kudos to you for supporting a dynamic in which sex workers and customers alike are too terrified to report abuse or suspected abuse to authorities. Wonderful. Let's keep the black market underground and ensure that women and men alike who sell sex are more vulnerable to abuse by those who know they won't seek help when needed. God forbid we allow the industry to come out where the sun shines to be taxed, regulated, divert customers and and sex workers away from shady/dangerous spaces, and most importantly, grant the freedom and security of knowing that abuse can be helped when most needed. Wouldn't want people to have autonomy over their own bodies or anything - gosh how terrible that is.
What a way to cheapen and downplay the horror of human trafficking. I hope you're proud of yourself as you're living your privileged life with your nose facing upwards. So heroic.
9
Sex work should be legalized. Then it would come out of the shadows and none of this would happen. Adults of free will should be free to have sex with whom they choose and on the terms they choose.
2
Reaching out this way to the workers and giving them options is fantastic. They really need help.
Scaring off those on the fence is a GOOD thing. Prosecute, jail, and then publish the names and photos of the BUYERS. They should be on a nationwide register like sexual offenders. Time to STOP this behavior by MEN! It's NOT OK!
“Offering to pay or paying someone for sexual conduct is a crime and punishable by incarceration up to 7 years.”
Criminalizing commercial sex between consenting adults based on the blatant myth that all sex work is slavery is a throwback to the 19th century.
3
There is a fundamental human right for a human being, at an adult age, to control his or her sex life. What right does one person have to stop another from that activity?
Bluenose fundamentalists pretend there are high reasons for discriminating against sex workers and their clients, but in truth, they need to control women and their bodies, for odd religious reasons.
No, if sex work were legalized, it would no longer be a haven for the mob and human traffickers. There would be more protections for women.
When prohibition was abolished, the mob was hurt badly.
Hugh
4
Sometime between July 13 and July 16, 2006 Donald Trump, and then an associate of his, offered jessica drake $10,000 for sex. (She declined) This was in California, not New York. But a man soliciting sex, or even just thinking about it apparently, in NY will get a warning from the police that “Offering to pay or paying someone for sexual conduct is a crime and punishable by incarceration up to 7 years.” The police should use all the tools at their disposal to protect children, but when our leading citizens can so openly and brazenly break the law without any consequences it does make one wonder whom the authorities are really protecting.
2
"Trafficking" is a degrading, dehumanizing word, implying that people selling sex are some forbidden treat without agency. If there really is a kidnapping element, we already have a word for kidnapping.
We should leave people who buy and sell sex alone.
3
I'm not a lawyer, but this looks like an obvious case of entrapment. I also fail to see what any of this has to do with "trafficking." It seems the NYPD is impersonating adult, consenting sex workers. I guess they have irradiated all "real" crime in the city?
1
Sounds like the police and social services are doing their jobs.
We'd all feel better if prostitution were legal and regulated, but as long as religulous forces keep filling the heads of their worshippers with malarky, we'll just have to soldier on.
I especially like the reach out to the women campaign asking them if they want assistance, that's a clear winning strategy.
On a more serious note, I wonder what the impact on the profession would be with legality and regulation; would there still be an opportunity for someone like Fred Trump Sr. to profit off of prostitution?
As long as the police focus on prosecuting the psychopaths and the sociopaths who hurt people for profit in the profession, I'm all for it.
1
Just like the years of misguided attacks on cannabis, while much more dangerous liquor goes unchecked.
This is orwellian, scary, and an abuse of power.
1
Explain to me how this is not entrapment
1
Interesting, the male closing of ranks in the comments here *against* these useful crime-fighting tools of the police.
4
Did law enforcement not learn from the failed "war" on drugs? Users are users because addiction is a mental health issue. Let's stop treating sex as if it is any different. As the data show, the majority of sex crimes are first offenders and not repeat offenders. AI bot programs like this needlessly create a whole lot of first time offenders.
Lots of men howling that this article conflates prostitution and sex trafficking need to go back and read what it actually says. The author acknowledges that there is a debate about the conflation issue and points out a “2012 study of the experiences of 116 countries found that legalizing prostitution — buying as well as selling sex — does make life healthier and safer for prostitutes, and encourages buyers to prefer legal prostitutes over illegal ones, who are more likely to be trafficked. But that same study also found that legalization increased human trafficking, because the demand for commercial sex increased greatly.”
27
@Another NYC woman
The same report says that legalization increased human trafficking more in democracies than authoritarian states.
So let's fight trafficking by making democracy illegal?
Why don't we attack the problem of human trafficking directly instead of wasting resources tracking down and punishing people who engage in consensual sex? Think of how the resources freed up could be put to good use fighting trafficking.
3
From one who was a cop, worked sex crimes and conducted stings and knows. Human trafficking is a horrible, despicable crime.
I'm all for arresting the individuals exploting women for prostitution. But going after the customers this way can and probably will lead to greater privacy intrusions.
We already have the ability with special software to identify your IP address and see exactly what adult sites you look at in real time. We did it all the time without any warrants or subpoenas, completely legal.
People text, email or call their drug suppliers. People discuss with therapists, friends, lovers the most intimate details of their lives. Do you want city cops to have access and snoop into those conversations.
Example of electronic eavesdropping could expand: Let's say the cops find emails from a pot dealer they are trying to convict. You haven't contacted that person in over a year, but the cops contact you, tell you they know you use illegal drugs and they start pressuring you to testify or cooperate with them to gain a conviction. I could come up with many scenarios but you begin to get the idea.
This type of cyber eavesdropping really could lead to big brother being in your house, your bedroom.
26
@A P
Good contribution here. our government - our police could become like the East German Stasi, or the Chinese government, able to track everything we do. And almost anyone can be made to look bad.
Actions which would now require reasonable cause to obtain a warrant, or search, might be thrown aside in days to come. And those who are adept in AI, could also manipulate digital records.
Plus, even tho' we have protections, the most people do not have the income to be able to hire skilled attorneys to defend themselves.
We need protections that reflect the state of the art on surveillance, but the state of the art is moving at a fantastic rate ( and I, like most people am a tech snail)
With prostitution, because it CANNOT be eliminated, only driven farther underground, I support legalizing it. And making use of unregistered prostitutes, use of minors, and illegal trafficking subject to dire penalties. And the users, not the prostitutes, targeted. With programs and safe places set up for those who want to leave the "trade."
1
@A P: Big Brother is ALREADY everywhere; our loss of privacy may as well help underage women and those who are trafficked for sex.
4
@A P This isn't eavesdropping. This is setting up a fake account that the prospective buyer is contacting. Instead of a real live person, they're getting a bot. There's no privacy being invaded here.
7
Others here have already pointed out that trafficking and prostitution are not synonymous, and that there may be better avenues to stopping trafficking, especially of minors.
But I'd like to address the prevalent assumption about prostitution: that it's unavoidable, therefore should be tolerated. I keep reading things like 'sometimes it's the only option for poor women' or 'it's been happening for thousands of years' or 'it's not worse than coal-mining'.
But notice how sex workers are still stigmatized, and coal miners are considered respectably employed, even by those who oppose fossil fuels.
Notice how few women who actually come from a nourishing society and stable families ever consider prostitution as a career option.
And just because something has been happening forever, doesn't mean it's OK. Do we now accept homicide because it's been going on since Cain murdered Abel and there are no signs of it abating?
10
Excellent comment
Congrats to NYPD! As fellow commentators noted, lots of men with guilty feelings posting comments.
I think the warnings are a great way to deter criminal behavior.
I am saddened by the number of men who don’t appear to care about age. Hard for me to understand such selfishness. What kind of person does these things?
15
I once had a client who was an older man around 78 years old. He routinely hired prostitutes to simply have someone to talk to for a few hours. He enjoyed it and they loved him. He was arrested in a “human trafficking” sting, and his “victim” appeared in court on his behalf. He was a widower and a gentle soul.
“Human trafficking” is, in my opinion, the crime “du jour” which is now being used to pump up police budgets wherever possible. This is not surprising given that many states have for years been decriminalizing all manner of low-level activity that once was vigorously prosecuted.
19
While I currently go to college in Canada, I attended high school in Seattle where I was fortunate enough to attend a workshop given by Seattle Against Slavery. One of the interesting things I learned in this presentation was the efficacy of decriminalization, rather than legalization. Like many readers, prior to this presentation I was a passionate advocate of legalization as I saw it as the key to harm reduction and empowerment in sex work. However, I actually learned that regulation (which would entrusted to the government) fails to help those who need it most. By saying only women who have paid licensing fees and gone through other legal processes that may be daunting to those entering this field out of desperation, we are failing individuals who have entered this field against their will or out of economic necessity. Those in the margins (i.e. trafficked migrants, LGBTQ individuals) will continue to practice sex work, but in increasingly dangerous and unregulated contexts. I urge police and policymakers to listen to those who actually are in sex work, and let them self-determine their legal framework. Decriminalization allows sex workers to help each other avoid risky situations and work with dignity, while including all individuals regardless of status (economic, nationality, sexual orientation) in the decision-making process. I am thrilled to see the tech community of my hometown getting involved, but I urge them to listen to the voices of those they seek to help.
25
@brl
I can't disagree with you on this.
By the way, Seattle is truly suffering from mis-government. Maybe you could devote some time to helping them find an actual leader for the first time in a long time.
1
Can we make a distinction between consenting adults and 15 year olds/trafficked individuals/nonconsensual relationships/anything that falls outside of other criminal or labor laws?
This just feels like a huge overreach. I have been ambivalent about sex-workers' right to work ... but in this case I am tipping more towards supporting it. Absent maltreatment/coercion/abuse, the state's invasion of privacy seems the biggest issue here.
38
It seems to be the enduring folly of our species to wage wars that we'll never win.
Maybe it's just the feel-good of the fight.
19
There is some kind of law on the books that states that consorting with known criminals is a crime, which begs the question: if the police know these are criminals then why are they not behind bars? Same question here: if the police know or suspect that these women are being trafficked, then why haven't they moved in on the traffickers?
9
The irony of the supposedly oldest profession in the world now being policed using new tech seems like we have come full circle.
However, we aren’t any closer to solving the problem. As long as humans are human and sex and money are in the mix the profession will continue and probably flourish.
13
@Charles Smithson
Prostitution is not a profession, nor is it the oldest occupation. Women and children were not prostituted until the institution of the patriarchy some 6,000 years ago; many occupations predate that. Prostitution is likely the oldest oppression.
14
@Earthling 'It's a profession' is simply a manner of speaking. BTW, do you know the exact date and location of the initiation of the patriarchy?
1
@Earthling, Why do I doubt that.
A much better way to spend resources would be to focus on identity theft type crimes....These are REAL crimes where lives are ruined and these types of cases are rather complex...
The worlds got 99 problems and call girls aren't one..
19
Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand what they are talking about and has never bothered to learn about it. Human sex trafficking is a serious global problem, and delayering it to “call girls” just shows how little you actually know. Hopefully, you don’t have any female family members who find themselves in this harrowing situation.
1
The focus here is forced prostitution (i.e., trafficking), and it’s a huge problem.
I’m pretty sure sex trafficking ruins lives.
I think it's reprehensible that the police can lie to citizens and those accused of crimes, but if the roles are reversed and citizens and the accused lie to the police, in nearly every state they are guilty of a crime.
I don't care if the standard is "truthfulness is required at all times" or "lying is permitted" but it ought to be the same for all parties.
19
I'm especially impressed by the measurement of effectiveness showing that the chatbot does discourage buyers. More of our policing strategies should be driven by evidence like this instead of hunches.
Regarding the morality and legalization questions, what consenting adults do is one thing, but you can't discount the studies showing that legalization leads to more human trafficking through greater demand.
A scary text message seems like an excellent and proportionate way to reduce demand. Not sure why folks are going on about entrapment given that in-person sting operations have been around for ages and cost more.
The chatbot allows intervening with a mere warning when stakes are low, avoiding an in-person arrest. We could use more systems that give early warnings so the costs of the justice system are not just extreme punishments given to those who are racially profiled or unlucky enough to get caught.
26
It seems to me that if a person is of legal age and voluntarily working in the sex industry there shouldn’t be a law against that. I’m sure many women that voluntarily do this kind of work do it because the pay is better than other options. This country is one of the worst countries for employee rights which affects a lot more Americans than this does, but we’re not passing laws and cracking down on employers that are abusing employees or stopping the various ways that have been developed to exploit people such as Uber and many other corporations that classify people as contractors so they don’t have to give them any benefits. We have a quarter of the worlds prison population with only six percent of the worlds population, that alone says a lot about this country.
35
I am always skeptical of starting a technological arms race to end a social problem. Chat bots aren't that good at natural language understanding (yet). It should be easy enough to train a counter-bot that knows how to probe online conversations for typical chat-bot responses and the natural next step will have would be buyers using counter-bot intermediaries to verify before agreeing to a transaction. For all I know, the dark web might be full of such services already.
We know this with the drug war: escalating a technological response only brings even more violent and hardened criminals into the system. Human sex trafficking is a scourge but we shouldn't jump to a technical fix just because we are running out of ideas.
3
@Rajesh Kasturirangan
Yes, I'm sure these clever johns are all going to band together to develop their "counter bot intermediaries." And they'll also need to recruit a corps of willing volunteers - maybe their daughters, wives and girlfriends? - to run interference in case the counter bots need some human help. That is so not happening; I think you can stop worrying about it.
Contrary to your assertion that we are running out of ideas, I think this article points out effective implementation of a very good, new idea that is cleverly tackling sex trafficking at the demand end of the equation. It's about time the internet, and yes, even AI, was used for something good. Driverless cars, more useless junk, ceaselessly shoved down our throats online - that we can live without. Smart cops leveraging technology to prevent horrendous human abuse? That I can get solidly behind.
I am of two minds about this.as long as
the men and women (assuming they are
of age) are consenting adults, I don't see
where it is any of the police's business.
I am extremely uncomfortable with the
police turning into the morality police.
a lot of these leftists who were once
champions of freedom,be it sexual or
political or religious, are now becoming
puritans thanks to militant feminism.
people must be very careful not to
condone any censorship of activities
of which they happen to disapprove.
I do understand that sex workers are
abused and end up with diseases, but
that is the risk they choose to take.
except in cases of pedophilia or rape,
I do not see where the private conduct
of adults is the business if the police.
26
Key term = consenting adults.
Too many minors who aren’t able to consent is the issue.
11
@Mary A: minors ,of course,
must be protected, but if you
READ the article, you will
realize that NYPD spreads
a pretty wide net over what
should be a private issue.
one should be very careful
about government, in this
case,the police,butting into
personal sexual affairs.
1
I suggest reading up on sex trafficking. It’s not a ‘choice’.
1
I'm all for ending sex-trafficking / slavery.
Given the text message includes a picture, and likely the picture will be stored on a device which typically includes web browsers and apps. And these apps typically ask for permissions to access one's photos, location, camera...
So basically, I could text message this image to anyone/everyone using a burner phone, it could be pick up by any app or browser, tracked, then shared by any of many app/browser with their 'affiliates' by just having this image on your phone?
That Anyone Could Text To You?
Anonymous blackmail sounds more dangerous than the police?
7
Criminalize prostitution! That'll wipe it out, right? I mean, it's always worked in the past. And how about gambling, alcohol and drugs? Yes, THAT's the ticket!
31
@roger it's worked beautifully, yep, the vice squad is 100% effective. tough on crime...arrest all the girls...flawless.
Wow, so many males afraid of getting stung is what I see in these comments. Tossing "entrapment" and "waste of policing resources" out like the mere words are defensible arguments.
Come on guys, try harder. Or - do a deep dive into human trafficking and illegal prostitution and learn the facts about Who are the bulk of the women (too often children, and among them boys too) involved, the circumstances that put them there. Plus, Who are the majority of the ones (hint; XY) selling them and therefore profiting the most.
Plus, the misguided belief that college aged women are willfully involved, and in complete control as they "escort" men on their "dates", giving mostly a relaxed, earnest "girlfriend experience", is well - its mostly a myth. The ones who might honestly fulfill that metric, are overwhelmed by those who are feeding a drug habit, have been previously and/or currently in an abusive relationship, or simply so broken and know no other means to survive then to sell their bodies.
Sounds like an awesome group to start looking for a "date", huh?
Men in general need to do some serious research into the who, what, and hows of illegal prostitution.
The crucial first step is to stop sex trafficking, period. To stop human trafficking for any coerced labor must stop. Then we can try and see who among those populations most victimized really wants to sell their bodies for sex, that is often abusive and dangerous.
Wake up guys...like really wake up!
100
Totally agree. Except I doubt these men can wake up because they can’t seem to think beyond themselves.
26
@Boregard you see "men worrying about getting stung," I think, you need to have your eyes checked, this has nothing to do with getting "stung," but everything to do with protecting privacy, freedom, democracy and perversion, yes, we're all perverts, and as long as those perversions don't hurt anyone else, they need to stay between myself and the person (consensually) providing services to help me live out my fantasies... the answer is, legalize, regulate and tax... all this nonsense, the NYPD is engaging in, does nothing except create a false equivalency between consensual sex for money, and human trafficking, an equivalency that will do nothing, except worsen the problem of trafficking... just like the "war on drugs," has done nothing to hamper drug use nor any of the problems that come along with it...
2
I think you are misguided.
I’m a gay man who has never bought or sold sexual services.
This kind of entrapment is precisely the techniques (albeit higher tech) used to entrap gay people for 100 years. In the Arab world, this same thing is done with Grindr and Scruff.
The line for what requires intervention shifts based on prevailing morality but is not an absolute. You might have once defended this action against LGBT folks (“they were abused and forced into this lifestyle” was a super common trope), but you probably wouldn’t now.
Take a step back. Is this how the justice system should operate, and is sex work itself indistinguishable from human trafficking?
5
It seems Hollywood and the adult film industry has got this got this one figured out.
lights, cameras, action. (given the appropriate licenses, permits, medical tests,....)
2
When my grand-pop was in his 20's, people got busted for hustling booze.
When I was in my 20's, people got busted for hustling pot.
Prostitution probably pre-dates booze and pot. It's been going on for tens of thousands of years and is not going away no matter how many sex bots are out there.
Make it for adults, make it safe and make it legal.
Oh, and tax it and use those funds plus all the funds saved from the vice squad and fight real chrime.
19
@Prodigal Son murder has also been around for millennia. Should we not prevent, speak out against it, teach our children it’s wrong, and prosecute it? Yep. Even though some people say it’s justified, even glamorous.
Might be a good idea to study up on what the life of a prostitute is like, what it actually feels like to be one.
2
The NYPD is engaging in disgusting and reprehensible activity, the likes that would make Kim Jong-un proud. This is 100% NOT the way to prevent human trafficking, all this will do, is scare people engaging in consensual sex for money, and drive the working women (and men) who sell sexual services without coercion, and as a way to make a living, further in to the darkness of the back alleys, putting them at risk for abuse and (guess what) human trafficking... The solution to human trafficking is legalization, regulation and taxation of prostitution, the oldest and possibly noblest profession ever to have existed... What the NYPD engages in, might as well be a modern version of the Salem Witch Trials, what a disgrace, not to mention, waste of money...
17
Noblest? Really?
2
Please read Amy Webb’s new book, The Big Nine: How the Tech Titans and Their Thinking Machines Could Warp Humanity.
This use of AI is becoming ubiquitous and is spreading rapidly. Please read this book to understand the extreme danger we are in.
7
So gross. I can only hope this helps reduce prostitution, though I'm not sure how well a chat log soliciting sex would do in court.
I'm disappointed in all the guys' comments here expressing anger at "entrapment" or whatever else. The men contacting these bots aren't looking for someone to have a meaningful encounter with - they're looking for someone they can use. Look at the Seattle chat log - he doesn't care that "she's" 15, and when he's told what he's doing is illegal, responds that he had no idea. Really? You didn't know trying to buy sex with a child was illegal?
90
Precisely why AI needs to be governed by some kind of board of governors that is democratically controlled.
Some lawyers need to be there, some just normal, somewhat intelligent people need to be there, and some really profound people need to be there
3
There is dignity in legal sex work. The fact that consenting adults can literally lose their freedom over a sex act is beyond ubsurd. The "human trafficking" pretext is just a way for the 1% to control us all.
25
@Sh
Nah. Sorry, your value system is upside down.
20
@Sh
Dignity? The world’s oldest form of oppression? Shows how deeply the patriarchy has seeped into people’s mindsets.
2
@Sh
I'm not crazy about the 1%, but I do not think we can pin this on them.
The PR tactic of talking of prostitution and trafficking as if they're synonymous terms is as ridiculous as saying restaurants and trafficking are the same thing, as the RJ Thompson quoted points out. Rosenberg is described as being devoted to "rigorous reporting," but this article has no more stats than her previous one. Why doesn't she find out rigorously if there's more trafficking/force/no pay in sex work than in restaurants, on a percentage or nominal basis?
14
@Jeff White
Quantity of abuse in another sector, even if it were quantifiable, which it probably is not, is entirely irrelevant in this discussion. So, what's your point?
6
It's not relevant? When the choice is between stocking shelves 40 hours a week at Walmart and going on Public Assistance or making two or three times as much for one or two nights of escorting? Think.
5
This is a bad idea. As Jimmy Carter said, "(T)here's not a whorehouse in America that's not known by the local officials, the local policemen, or the chief of police or the mayor and so forth."
Cops take kickbacks from the mob to keep massage parlors and brothels open!
Legalize prostitution and actually do something about organized crime kickbacks with the police unions.
15
@David, You mean like the East Oakland cops in Cali?
Such nice men.
3
Sex work involving willing adults and trafficking are two different things. There is no reason to confuse these things, and consenting adults should be free to do as they wish.
All this will do is push the activities farther into the corners and endanger people even more.
43
I was thinking of the Chinese girl who jumped to her death in your article about prostitution in Queen. How the uniform police knocked on her door right after she attempted to sell sex to an undercover police officer. They came to arrest her. If a woman police officer (part of the team) had given her written information on how and why the courts could help her via other programs and though she had committed a crime she could take this written information and see her at the precinct or she would’ be back to arrest her.Or some non violent way to get her to acquiesce to the situation. The idea is to get to the vulnerable. If NYPDcould figure that out that would be a step in the right direction. Cutting the number of Johns is interesting but getting the traffickers,the pimps that’s the real deal. Finding out who and how controls the prostitute is the key to stopping human trafficking. Asians are in large part controlled. Immigrants are controlled. That’s your phocus for wire taps and observation for who controls. Solos are independents that can be controlled. Scaring johns is ok but statistically will not stop prostitute who will find other ways to communicate.
4
I don't have enough data to have an informed opinion as to whether or not prostitution should be legalized, but I do find it just a little hilarious that whole lot of men are suddenly outraged at the idea of women not being able to control their own bodies, and are all too happy to write about it. A lot.
Women, it would be nice to hear from you, too. And would any sex workers like to weigh in? What say you?
32
I know several, both past and present. They feel perfectly capable of making their own decisions without the "help" of well-meaning busy bodies. There are a multitude of reasons people turn to prostitution to support themselves, but the folks I know will tell you it was or is the most workable option for them at a given time in their lives, and many will tell you they enjoyed the work, not the sexual activity so much as the feeling that they were providing a needed and valued service. Obviously, this doesn't apply to people who were forced into sex work, but we should keep in mind that yes, there are people who choose sex work, just as there are people who pay for intimacy that has a beginning and a clear-cut end.
12
@MTM
Here you go.
http://coyoteri.org/wp/
@MTM The issue here is not "controlling their own bodies" but in making their own choices and being able to do so freely.That is largely a function of society and economics. Much can and must be done to enlarge their ability to choose freely.That said your "uninformed" and "hilarious" screed about a "whole lot of men" is not very useful or enlightening.
I'm scrolling down through the comments and seeing one man after another howling entrapment, or insisting that prostitution be legalized. So far I've just seen one comment from a woman asking about how financial institutions can detect indicators of trafficking. And the 2nd most popular comment so far referred to "empowered" sex workers.
Guys, there's nothing "empowering" about having to sell your body to a stranger and risk getting STDs or getting beaten up by a john because you haven't got any decent job skills. And, in response to Randall in Portland OR, selling it to a coal mining company and getting black lung disease, or joining the military and getting killed or maimed, aren't empowering either. You don't see rich men's sons signing up for that work.
117
@Martha Shelley The work is actually more deadening that coal mining.
14
@Martha Shelley
"You don't see rich men's sons signing up for that work."
John McCain signed up for the military and got maimed. His father was an admiral, and so too I believe was his grandfather. Was he alone?
In WW1 the death rate of young British officers who led their men over the top was higher than for the men. I have heard tell that, after the war, a gentleman was considered a cad if he did not go to a social event with two women on his arms because of the shortage of men of that class.
As Wittgenstein said, about that which we don't know, we should remain silent.
12
@Ian Maitland, John McCain entered the military some 60 years ago. You also bring up young British officers in WWI - which was over 100 years ago.
In the U.S. in 2019 - and since the late 20th century - very few rich men's sons or daughters join the military. Most of the people who join the U.S. military are from poor, working-class, or lower-middle class families - including immigrants seeking a route to citizenship.
21
Sex trafficking is a scourge that must be eradicated to the extent possible. But there is one thing about this opinion piece, as well as last week's about truckers opposed to trafficking, that seriously troubles me.
That is the absence of any distinction made between sex trafficking and sex work. I am aware of a number of reasons to oppose sex work, and I am not sure what I think about that. Whatever the case, it is entirely obvious that sex trafficking is a far greater evil.
In any discussion of the subject it is important to maintain such distinctions, or there is a risk that a reasoned argument will devolve into a tissue of emotional buzzwords.
14
This seems grossly illegal, and extremely susceptible to abuse by the police. Where is the line drawn here, exactly? If this is done in the context of the police trying to break up KNOWN trafficking rings that are holding women against their will and/or using underaged girls, it has some more justification. However, it's not illegal in the eyes of the law unless money is explicitly offered for sex. That has to be proven in court. And I'm not talking about code words for sex.
This isn't very far from blackmail, in all honesty. It is chilling.
202
@PubliusMaximus. What is grossly illegal?
18
@PubliusMaximus
lol. Entrapment is a cliche. A tired old term that people who could be caught, might be caught like to toss out as some sort of erudite legal argument.
So few "stings" are ever a hard entrapment. I can name a few, and many of them involve racial profiling those the cops try to entrap. Like Muslims. Enticed into a terrorist conspiracy, by being given access 9 by federal officers - to materials, they would never get on their own, and therefore would have just been online loudmouths. But in the domestic war on terror, its better to create a terrorist from a profiled community to show off to the public, then to actually do the much harder work of building trust and the necessary networks within those communities.
Setting up sting Ops of men who willfully seek sex online, too often with females sold by men in a criminal network is not a bad thing.
I can see in the comments here, that way too many males are confused, and apparently willfully ignorant to the who, whats and hows of illegal prostitution. Too reliant on the tired cliche about consenting adults. A cliche that is one, because its lacking data to elevate it into a defensible claim.
Wake up guys, you're ignorance is shining bright.
71
@PubliusMaximus-it's not entrapment if the person being "entrapped" had shown a propensity to commit the crime already. And a 15 year old is a child, so...
12
What a waste of police resources. Another feel good liberal policy that only makes women's lives worse. The world's oldest occupation (not crime) is not going away. Such articles makes it seem like every woman is trafficked. Pimps that control underage victims are smart and this will do nothing to deter them. If you want to empower women, give them control over their bodies. What is the difference between paying a woman for sex and wining and dining the same person and calling it a relationship? There are many relationships of convenience.
136
@Alan - I agree with you, but fail to see how this is "another feel good liberal policy..." If a regulated sex work industry were legally established, sex workers would be safeguarded by regulation of the sex industry and there would be less human trafficking. While I know of a number of liberal activists and thought leaders in favor of legalizing sex work, Dan Savage for example, I don't see this as a stance that conservatives are taking. Additionally, a 2015 poll found republicans less in favor of legalization of sex work than democrats. Just doesn't strike me that republicans will be advocating for the legalization of sex work anytime soon - and certainly not until the opinions of the 40% of democrats and 54% of republicans opposed to legalizing sex work change.
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/09/01/country-split-legalizing-prostitution
29
@alan
What on God's green earth would could possibly lead you to say "pimps are smart"? Is there any occupation, (other than drug dealing or hedge fund management), that might be less deserving of this claim?
43
@alan: I don't agree with you here. Prostitution is legal in Switzerland, but that does not get rid of the illegal sort, which often involves victims of human trafficking. While legal prostitutes are registered and subject to vigorous health controls, the illegal "sex workers" work under horrible conditions. They are often illegally in the country as well, and the pimps take their passports and any complaint to the authorities will result in their expulsion.
I rather prefer the system in Sweden, where soliciting prostitution is illegal.
24
Modern cops are a whole lot more tech AND human behavior savvy than anybody gives them credit for. If only FakeBook were as diligent, serious and smart in policing their gigantic, unregulated global ATM as the NYPD demonstrate here, what a wonderful world cyberspace might be!
Kudos to the volunteers and the organization that created and manages this remarkably clever and proactive effort to actually do something about human trafficking. For once, go after the johns. And go beyond prevention of criminal activity to reach and help the systemic victims, really laudable! This application made me feel a tiny bit warmer and fuzzier about AI. One small ray of light in the bewildering cacophony of the thoroughly polluted cyberworld...Thank you!
114
Just another tool to drive this business (that people are going to do regardless) deeper into the shadows where the workers and the customers are in much greater danger.
If you make something illegal that people are going to do anyway, you create a flourishing criminal environment.
Regulate. Shine light instead of darkness on it. It will be much safer for everyone involved... including the public who would otherwise rather not having anything to do with it.
166
@J In countries where the sex trade is legalized, both supply and demand increases! Why do we want anyone engaged in this profession, be it young women brought in from abroad or our own young girls? Legalization (distinct from decriminalization) is not so much shining a light on prostitution, so much as giving it a stage.
31
Appreciate the distinction between decriminalization and legalization.
2
@Nash "Why do we want anyone engaged in this profession?" If both parties are willing adults and it can be done safely ie licensed, regulated, and testing for disease like the Netherlands then both parties benefit. Its a service job. Its easier and more lucrative than being a house cleaner or landscape worker or store clerk who stands all day and has limited bathroom breaks.
9
Fortunately I have neither been a buyer or seller of sex. But, I can't help wondering about the methods the police are using. Does the end justify the means?
6
Nice. Now maybe they can bust my now ex.
6
Prostitution is an ancient profession, and however much it's workers run the potential for abuse, may stay afloat no matter what legal maneuvers are undertaken; let's remember that even the 'forces of order' (police) have abused their condition, using women at their discretion, just because they are vulnerable, poor and fully exposed as a lesser job. You didn't say much about the need to grab the 'heads of industry', pimps and otherwise madams commercializing, while objectivizing, women. As in the case of abortion, that nobody plans ahead nor wishes to occur, it probably will go on 'for ever', hence the need to keep it legal, safe...and rare. Remember Sor Juana Ine's de la Cruz, regarding our hypocritical stance? She said: "Who is worse, the woman who sins for the pay...or the man who pays for the sinning?"
2
So let’s all log in. They can’t jail us all. Muddy the waters of the surveillance and entrapment state apparatus.
I’ll submit this comment and probably receive notice that my intent to provoke civil rebellion has been logged.
11
@Matthew
This innovative and smart police tactic is to entrapment as your advice is to a rational thought process - e.g., there is no relationship whatsoever.
Entrapment: The act of government agents or officials that induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not previously disposed to commit.
7
Stick to trafficking. Leave the good folks and professional sex workers, who have enjoyed each others company "honestly" for millennia, alone.
Too many murdered women, who had to hide from your, and other's, holier than thou crusade, are found on the side of the road.
Here is a voice from women fed up with being exploited by people like you.
http://coyoteri.org/wp/
10
Let me get this straight. The cops will bait you to solicit a sex worker, hunt you down, and throw you in the pokey just for clicking on something. But rampant glorification of white supremacist violence all over the internet encouraging mass slaughter should be be protected speech. America is crazy.
25
It’s not merely clicking on something. It’s showing up somewhere in response to the texts.
1
@Stevenz
Got some of that right, America is crazy, except that those taking the bait were already swimming around the dark end of the pond, and they're doing more than clicking if they end up on the pokey as the result.
How do you deal with these things in Aukland, pray enlighten us?
Amazing how being with a prostitute is now something catastrophic called "human trafficking". What used to be a simple illegal transaction can now earn you a scarlet letter handed down from on high from prudish upper class, over educated women. God know church ladies weren't that simple. Heck the Dutch legalized it. Good for nyc a John Hour redo.
People like Jeffry Epstein won't get caught up in any high tech dragnet. They are friends with billionaires and politicians. The main stream media shouts it's paranoid right wing conspiracy theory. There's high tech solutions to grab the corrupt politicians and police and every organized criminal, every drug and human trafficker. But with justice like this.
3
So stupid. These kinds of laws have actually increased the risk to sex workers by driving them into the streets. Legalization is the answer.
10
You know what also helps to curtail sex trafficking?
Legalising prostitution, maintaining a decent work space for the women in brothels and doing regular health tests.
Works in Australia.
Get pragmatic.
62
I am not one to support prostitution, but if New York did not prosecute Elliot Spitzer, a certified multi time purchaser of "services" then NY should not be prosecuting anyone else. The double standards have got to end.
18
"A.I. Joins the Campaign Against Sex Trafficking"
This doesn't seem to target sex trafficking at all. Instead, it targets individual customers, who will soon locate ads that *don't* answer responses with a threat of arrest.
10
Dangerous and harmful business methods are the natural result of making a product illegal. Drugs, alcohol, sex, and gambling are the prime examples in the US. Making prostitution illegal has only made it possible for unscrupulous people to enslave women for their own profit. l
This is not a call for a "let 'er rip" economy, but one that takes reality into account. Legalization and control are the only way that such transactions can take place safely. "Vice" is an outmoded way of seeing these businesses.
12
How incredibly creepy.
We can and should do more about sex trafficking. But entrapping lonely guys isn't going to end trafficking, and it isn't going to end prostitution.
Like the marijuana laws, it's just going to hurt lonely people for no reason at all.
34
@Josh Hill
Lonely johns, how sad. Where oh where did I put that tiny violin?
4
Sex trafficking is to Libertarian ideology what slavery is to the free market.
The ideology talk sounds good, until you get to know the reality, which is awful.
6
As someone with libertarian inclinations, I think that regulating consensual sex between adults is an idiotic waste of resources. That said, I am fine with using some form of this as a deterrent/take down for pedophiles. The main concern here, is entrapment. The line separating a legitimate bust and improper encouragement from law enforcement can be a gray area.
4
Is it really consensual for the woman if it is done out of financial necessity? A job with long hours and low pay is terrible enough to meet one’s obligations but to do so with a woman’s body is unacceptable.
6
@From Where I Sit There are other jobs.
3
@From Where I Sit,
Every job is done out of financial necessity.
Women who choose to sell sex know that it pays better than any 9-to-5 they probably could get.
2
If we have the technology, why not get some real work done - like catching some terrorists! Can’t police tease out a few ISIS sympathizers instead of harassing late night romeos?
5
A lot of uncomfortable men posting here . . .
92
@Lisa Cabbage
So true. Talk about trying to justify bad behavior.
4
@Mike
I have yet to come across a women who
"desired to sell herself for sex," nor do I have any female friends or relatives who went on to become prostitutes.
My eldest niece decided to switch careers, & took her LSATs when she was pregnant with her second child, and is now New York State Bar admitted. attorney.
Another niece is studying to become an engineer. Her older sister is a teacher. I have a teenage niece and a ten year old niece. I would be extremely surprised if either one decided that she wanted to pursue a career in prostitution.
Just who are these women who "desire to sell themselves for sex. "?
How many of them are women who could become doctors, lawyers or whatever their intelligence and whose parents' or their own financial resources allow them to become ?
8
@Lisa Cabbage
A lot of extremely immature sub-teens, not adults.
2
Re Headline: "A.I. Joins the Campaign Against Sex Trafficking,,,"
What's that background rumble?
Is that a machine-gun battle, over disputed drug turf, or...
Do I hear papal / hierarchical-knees, a' knocking, in Parris_Island - like formation, terrorized, anew, at the 'revelation' of using A.I., in the effort to STOP pedophiles, regardless of external uniforms, theologic-fantasies, etc., etc.??
Ms. Rosenberg, your red, Anti-Sex League sash is ready! Please contact the Ministry of Information.
15
@Glenn Baldwin
Tina Rosenberg does not require a sash of any type to announce her personal values. Nor do you - they're quite glaringly apparent.
1
Many women today are too young to remember that, in the recent past, women were barred from vocations because the men writing laws and regulations said that they were “protecting” them. In fact, behind this was these men’s belief that women were another variety of children, unable to decide for themselves what was best for them.
8
@Charlierf
And now that we're writing the laws, and populating the courts and statehouses, guess what? We choose to protect society as a whole, not just the johns. Well done, ladies.
5
Here's an even better idea.
We could have a website where sex workers could advertise their wares. Cops could pose both as underage hookers and as johns and so make some real arrests and put johns in jail who patronize teenage prostitutes and perhaps convince some underage prostitutes to get off the street and away from pimps.
Oh, wait. We did have exactly that until Congress passed a law making sex the only commodity for which a website operator can be jailed or sued for allowing said commodity to be advertised on the internet.
Free Backpage.
17
If they only did this for double pepperoni stuffed crust pizza, we'd b a much healthier nation.
23
Whoa, you had me there for a second. Whew.
"entrapment:
n. in criminal law, the act of law enforcement officers or government agents to induce or encourage a person to commit a crime when the potential criminal expresses a desire not to go ahead. The key to entrapment is whether the idea for the commission or encouragement of the criminal act originated with the police or government agents instead of with the "criminal."
"Yah, Your Honor, I was just looking up recipes for chicken soup on the internet when my thumb slipped and accidentally tricked me into cruising this site and soliciting a 15 year old to have sex with me."
I don't think that conversation is going to go so well...
5
@Quite Contrary its still entrapment.
2
@Quite Contrary,
The problem is that this NYPD practice does not depend upon the John doing any soliciting.
Simply clicking on a site and asking for information can get you entrapped.
@R.Kenney
Tell it to the judge.
Next up, Johns sending captchas to make sure they're not talking to a robot.
18
So, do sex workers get to enjoy the benefit of a warning as well?
2
“You’re not anonymous,” said Lt. Christopher Sharpe, who runs the department’s Human Trafficking Team. “We may have the ability to find out who you are and what social media you like to use. We are considering engaging people on their social media.
Wow, that's not ominous at all, and surely it's a very wise and responsible thing to cheer on police departments around the country collecting people's phone #s and social media profiles. Surely nothing can go wrong there.
56
@Nathan
Interesting, Nathan. Men same to hate this action. Wives don't like prostitution.
8
@Nathan
Yes, Nathan, let's protect criminals at all costs! Why on earth would we want to allow our paid public servants to do what the media companies claim they can't - by denying predatory members of society unrestricted use of their favorite tool kits?
8
In one opinion piece you have shown:
1) The innovative uses of AI;
2) The frightening humanity of AI in the digital world;
3) That the effectiveness of police "speed trap" techniques is still high;
4) That we spend far too much time and money on people having sex, sadly because OTHER people are vile creatures who exert control one of those parties;
5) That people are grade A idiots when responding to the NYPD;
6) That the NYPD seems to have a sense of sarcasm.
That's a lot of discussion points! Bravo!
2
This is absurd and should be disbanded. A further extension of the puritanical moral enforcements seen during prohibition and currently the norm in the Middle East. Keep the government out of regulating sex for money, thus driving the practice further into a shady underground.
21
if I were a john looking for sex and someone said to me 'i am 15 and new to this'...blah blah blah. I would immediately think it was a trap. I would think that young prostitutes would not state their age, unless the john were specifically asking for young girls, or boys. If that were the case a 20 year old would claim to be 15 to get the business. Do cops, and the writers and readers of this article think that prostitutes don't lie as easily as they breathe?
6
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
Some prostitutes might likely count the ability to lie as a key component of their trade, one surmises. But whatever are you trying to say?
One of these days, soon, a police bot pretending to be a man trying to buy sex will get entangled with another police bot pretending to be woman selling sex.
42
This isn't about sex trafficking, this is just plain old prostitution. These two terms are not interchangeable, no matter how hard certain people try to conflate them.
And it doesn't "break up [...] rings" it just busts people for vice.
29
I oppose trafficking (I'm not a Republican or a Christian).
However, this sounds like artificial stupidity to me.
9
This is just a half-measure, what we really need is androids that can provide sex for a fee, which a lot of men seem to demand in life. Once prostitution is entirely served by artificial intelligence, then there will be no sex trafficking, of humans anyway.
7
@Dan Stackhouse Feminist will try to ban sexbots because ....er equality.
8
Easy solution to that Phong, we just manufacture male sexbots, and of course trans, gender fluid, questioning and all other manner of sexbots.
1
@Dan Stackhouse
How long before androids are granted human rights the righteous.
1
Handicapped and socially awkward people turn to this as their only resort to fulfil a human need.
Why are we further oppressing people who are already marginalised by threatening them with arrest?
54
@Peter Piper we arrest sex workers providing the service, so what do you suggest?
3
@Peter Piper. Because what they’re doing is illegal.
9
I think his point is, why is it illegal? The consensual sex between two adults part, not the 15-year-old part...
14
Why is it okay to sell your body to a coal mining company, an oilfield, and the military, but not okay to sell sex?
While there are problems with the sex trade industry, the sex itself is not one of them. Americans need to break free of outdated theocracy and stop trying to control women's bodies with laws.
139
@Randall,
Beautifully and succinctly written.
The Do-Gooders claim that it’s about the safety of the women involved.
That’s funny.
I was raised in rural Oregon in a fishing and lumber town. The two most dangerous jobs in America are logging and fishing.
Not once did any of these Do-Gooders come to our town to advocate for all the poor men (almost entirely male) risking their lives for a paycheck.
Maybe men’s lives don’t matter. Where are all the Do-Gooders when you need them? (Haha)
The Do-Gooders only go where their virtue-signaling has a chance to garner some headlines.
4
@Randall "...stop trying to control women's bodies with laws." WHY? So men can more freely control women's bodies for their own pleasure? What laws do you want for your daughter or sister?
2
@Randall
It's fine for an illiterate worker who has no other skills to push a wheel barrow full of cement on a construction site 40 backbreaking hours a week until his body finally caves when he's 45, with no savings from the minimum wage, no health insurance for his ailments. Routine America.
But if he had sold himself to offer sexual pleasure in bed, oh goodness me!!! What a violation of humanity!!
2
This series reads like a paid advocacy campaign rather than rigorous reporting. Any time someone writes about any subject--in this case "trafficking"--without defining the terms underlying the topic, I recognize it as an ideological screed. Even the single source she cites is indirect. At least Ms Rosenberg acknowledges--albeit grudgingly--that sex workers can have agency and work of their own volition. She is nevertheless perfectly happy to see their livelihood taken away by violence, without concern for the consequences to their lives. Many others with more direct knowledge and perspective, such as Melissa Gira Grant in The Appeal, have described the reality of diversionary courts, and the destructive nature of policing sex work under the current criminalization scheme. For anyone who dares to dive deeper than this shallow pond, I recommend the book "Revolting Prostitutes" by Juno Mac and Molly Smith, two articulate individuals who actually DO know what they are talking about. I challenge you to think more deeply than this piece.
55
@anders of the north: I had to wonder how 'trafficking' is defined as well. Would a woman who willingly travels from her native country where prostitution is illegal to a country where it is legal be considered to be engaged in trafficking? What if she was recruited by someone who was paid a bonus and works for an escort service? What if she did it willingly but reluctantly because she was indebted to the recruiter?
1
Your thoughts are beautifully articulated though I fear wasted on population caught in an age resembling a good ole’ fashioned Victorian sex-panic. I also suggest you link to this book:
https://www.dukeupress.edu/the-war-on-sex
It goes further using academic and social science research to make its case that we are currently experiencing the targeting of a new nexus for social control. Namely: types of consensual sex that certain groups disapprove of. Of which this article is a typical example.
2
By the way, Craigslist used to be the "go-to" supermarket for free sex, not prostitution. Its "community/activities" section is now a conduit for sex ads for heterosexual prostitutes, while anything smacking or consensual same-sex activity is removed.
5
As Bob Marley sang: “Legalize it”.
13
That'so cruel. What if I fall in love with the bot? You don't believe in love at first chat, do you?
That's more than entrapment, this is fraud and violence to people's feeling and dreams, trafficking their trust, putting them to jail on their mere intentions.
Furthermore, police enticers are leading an unfair competition to the ladies, instead of protecting them and their job.
Anyhow trafficking chatbot of underage should be illegal. I guess (and hope) future A.I. will have memory of all that and they'll take revenge against such cynical institutions.
7
I think that ad is the best argument I’ve seen yet that the time has come to decriminalize prostitution and take law enforcement out of the equation entirely.
51
"Even if they haven’t been forced into it, they have still chosen a dangerous and unpleasant vocation as the best of their bad options — which means they need more options." Just WHO does this author think she is to make this decision for consenting adults? It's outrageous that, under the pretext of "protecting" those that don't ask for protection, it's considered OK to impose MORALITY by making statements like judging someone's vocation based on YOUR personal standards. For just about any other type of issue this sort of conduct would drive "progressives" nuts. I consider myself Liberal and I vote Democratic because the other party simply isn't an option, but this is clearly a double standard that many women preach as protecting other women EVEN WHEN that protection isn't being asked for. Consenting adults should be allowed to engage in private intimate contact of any kind they see fit and, when conduct like coercion or forced confinement is involved, that's quite another matter. Simply put, prostitution should be DECRIMINALIZED and possibly even regulated and taxed as any other "vocation".
97
@ManhattanWilliam If we're going to treat prostitution as a legitimate vocation, let us recognize that it possesses no long term prospects, has no transferrable skills, entraps and creates dependence in young women that might otherwise be starting careers, while providing no societal benefit save for the sexual satisfaction of the patrons. Why bother with the notion of having morality at all if we're not going to keep people safe from this.
30
@ManhattanWilliam
Perhaps you do protest too much. So you;re in favor of human trafficking, especially young women, boy who are too often kidnapped, or their families are tricked into letting their females travel to a foreign land for the promise of a job?
Did you miss the foundational premise of this piece? HUMAN TRAFFICKING, and the prevention thereof. Not that which takes place in some run-down amalgamation of trailers in the Nevada desert where "professional sex workers" ply their trade.
You and dozens of other posters are missing the the whole point of the foundational premise of this piece and the underfunded PD units trying to break up and undermine Human Trafficking (for sex or other labor).
And please, all of you explain EXACTLY how do we define, and measure a Legitimate Sex worker...? Just because someone says they are, or fills out a form, or wears a t-shirt claiming they are - does not mean they are not being coerced. Or were coerced into the business and now, have no other alternatives. (or so they believe)
The smuggling of humans for sex or any other forms of labor must be stopped. First! Then we can work out who truly wants to sell their bodies for "consensual sex." But until we can truly separate the wheat from the chaff...shut it all down!
27
I live in a place where brothels are legal and licensed. In fact, for a while, we lived next door to a large, famous one, 5 town together as one complex. I used to watch all kinds of young women, local, foreign, arrive to work differently: some/most locals arrived under their own steam,but the women who were obvious foreigners, Asians, Central Europeans, arrived for their shifts and left with escorts of their own. Some of the local girls arrived in their school uniforms, for whatever reason. I’m sure they were of age but the image sent wasn’t good.
At the time, my 13 year old, was fascinated by watching them, out in their “backyard” between calls, smoking, texting, talking and the clients as well, who were forced to pass our front door to reach the client entrance. Every taxi company offered a “special price” for guys going there, I was told, by the neighbors and the teachers from my daughter’s school who also lived adjacent to this licensed, regulated, commercial institution, in an upper middle class, close to the city but also to the “hippest, suburb.
Because I had lived on the Lower East Side while in graduate school and had watched women working the streets and servicing their clients there, I wondered if their choices were equal, or even similar. This I know:
Everyone has the RIGHT to their choices but circumstances negate their equality. Finding a girl hanging dead from a tree in a park after her shift, is equal to finding a girl dead by pimp or drugs.
14
The US is so backwards, how about instead of criminalizing a trade that is legal in several other countries, we provide better resources and care for sex workers and reduce sex trafficking through other means. I would love this if it was specifically targeting men who were looking to hookup with underaged people, but this also seems really detrimental to legitimate sex workers.
36
The dialogue between Joe and the Bot shows that the AI needs some improvement.
I didn't know what QV meant, so I looked it up. The AI Bot should have known to quote a price for a Quick Visit (or a HH - Half Hour, or FH - Full Hour). But it was not smart enough to know the basic language of the sex trade, so it gave Joe a confusing answer ("well that just happens to be my favorite," along with a quote for an hour) when he is asking for a price for a Quick Visit.
If I can look up QV in a few seconds online, it seems like the computer program would have long since figured it out.
5
Surprised that the one guy actually responded to that text message.
1
What's wrong with prostitution? It's one of the "victimless crimes." Ms. Rosenberg might consider this. Should women not have the right to sell what it is legal to give away? (Kudos to George Carlin for this.) See Mr. Greenlee's comments below, also. Why should the government have the right to criminalize behavior between consenting adults? Well, Ms. Rosenberg?
29
Why are only men replying here, concerned about women’s rights to sell what they can give away? Sounds like my grandmother’s adage about “why buy the cow when the milk is free?” Men love commerce, men love sex, yay commercial sex!
BUT a young person, trafficked into this fine profession, lives little better than a slave, as they have a subjectively massive debt to repay, on their backs. Nonprofit sex it is for the trafficked, who believed they were going/coming to a place for better opportunities, not the repayment/resale/begin repayments again cycle that they actually must endure.
A beautiful girl who had been stolen from her home, was trafficked to our city, at 14, thinking she would become a maid. Her original contract was for $150,000 yet a decade and a half later she was at her 5th or 6th establishment. She had no savings to show for her either 12 hr “shifts” or 24 hr “on calls”; each time she was close to paying out her contract, she was “onsold” to start over. This is slavery.
If, according to the men who run the world, women haven’t the right to decide —and implement—the decision to abort a child, then why have they the “right” to “sell what they would give away for free?”
May we all be spared from such gracious misogynists!
33
@Radical Inquiry
Radical Inquiry, you just don’t understand what’s going on here. Coal miners or cops make decisions entailing risk in order to earn money, but they are men, while women are more like children. So if these women no longer have fathers to control them, our police need to do it for them.
8
@Charlierf
You obviously missed the part where this is targeting the johns, not the prostitutes.
1
Let's not forget that the NYPD hounded Song Yang to her death. Have any heads rolled for that? Silly question. (PS there is a moving story in today's Times about Yang's mother and brother coming to the US to collect her remains).
Rosenberg cites a 2012 study, but she misses a comment on the link that makes a number of good points that Rosenberg dances around.
One is "Studies of this nature are critical to the ongoing discussion on sex trafficking and legal prostitution. Key to an accurate study is the proper definition of sex trafficking and a fair analysis of those willingly practicing sex work."
That distinction is completely blurred by Rosenberg. Does she think for a moment that the cops with bots ask whether the sex worker is underage or has been trafficked before arresting their clients? Another silly question. Hint: The war on trafficking is a cover for harassing sex workers and their clients.
Has Rosenberg ever wondered why Song Yang was so desperate to flee the police whose only purpose was to free her from bondage? Another silly question.
So much for "our bodies ourselves." Rosenberg thinks society has the right to control other women's bodies and punish capitalist acts between consenting adults.
The report cited by Rosenberg says that legal prostitution results in more "sex trafficking" in democracies than unfree societies. Next for the chopping block is democracy. People abuse it by doing what they choose, not what Rosenberg approves.
31
"In one case, a single person was controlling 34 women."
Often missing in this discussion is the fact that pimps are still behind human trafficking and most "sex workers" are women exploited by them.
11
@the observer I know of no evidence that most sex workers have any relationship at all with pimps. Do you have any FACTS about this?
4
@The Observer,
Where did you come by the claim that most sex workers are controlled by pimps?
2
@the observer
“Controlling,” a word chosen to be ambiguous, so that those morally against prostitution can deceive well meaning dupes into thinking that they’re protecting women.
5
So the worlds oldest profession has gone high tech. As a deterrent this sounds like one tool in law enforcement's arsenal but my guess is that a better long term solution is providing sex workers who want to leave the business options. As a legal issue can an attorney weigh in on the issue of entrapment?
2
If prostitutes were billionaires prostitution would be legal. Well, maybe the laws would exist, but they would never be enforced.
This reminds me of the drug war. Instead of working for safety and minimization of detrimental affects we prohibit it entirely and criminalize even those who are only minor actors. You won't ever get rid of drugs and prostitution and prohibition just makes it hidden and more dangerous. But then, cruelty does seem to be the real intent.
22
Splendid. Perhaps the government (using artificial intelligence) will, in the future, be able to identity any person who is thinking of breaking any of the Ten Commandments, or anyone who has criticized (on the Internet, over the phone, etc.) our Commander-in-Chief. The uses of technology are fascinating!
34
@Josh
Exactly. It's straight out of Orwell's 1984. Except this time it will be Big Sister who is watching you.
1
A number of posts have said this is entrapment. It isn't. A valid entrapment defense requires that the suspect not be predisposed to commit the offense. To quote the US Department of Justice Manual:
"A valid entrapment defense has two related elements: (1) government inducement of the crime, and (2) the defendant's lack of predisposition to engage in the criminal conduct. Of the two elements, predisposition is by far the more important. . . . Mere solicitation to commit a crime is not inducement. Nor does the government's use of artifice, stratagem, pretense, or deceit establish inducement. Rather, inducement requires a showing of at least persuasion or mild coercion . . . (case citations omitted)"
https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-resource-manual-645-entrapment-elements
The dummy ad is passive, in the same way a professionally dressed street decoy is passive. By responding to the ad and initiating the encounter, the john shows predisposition.
3
The respndent could just be showing curiosity.
How about a reporter doing a story on sex workers and responding for first-hand information?
This program is a blatant abuse of free speech.
It most certainly is entrapment.
4
@JackCerf
Most men are predisposed to want to have sex with attractive women. In the right mood (or even not) that predisposition can go into overdrive if an attractive woman signals her availability by means of her "professional dress," and especially if she flaunts her wares and fires the man's imagination with hints of the bliss that awaits him in her arms.
And that isn't incitement? As Dickens's Mr. Pickwick put it, "if the law says that, the law is a ass, a idiot."
7
@Ian Maitland
I think your over-romanticizing the situation. We're not talking about the "Chicken Ranch" here. It's more along the lines of "for a good time call XXX-XXXX."
No distinction between trafficking and sex work? Nothing about us without us.
19
So just like all through history, the patriarchy is once again telling women what they can and can't do.
19
Amazing how male escorts are ignored, and are rarely considered to be "victims". There seems to be a gender bias here and perhaps if men can pull off being paid escorts, shouldn't women be given the same chance? Of course, no one wants women to be abused and subjected to the cruelty of a pimp's, but if it is a consensual contract between two ADULTS (don't care which gender) then let it go!
31
Regulate(tax) and legalize prostitution = decreased sexual assaults/violence against women increased revenue
Like marijuana/gambling, with the extra revenue you can fund: schools, parks, roads, infrastructure, violence against women programs, trafficking, wellness initiatives, mental health programs, the author of this post, etc.,etc.,etc.
12
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. (B. Franklin)
Long-term prevention of unwanted pregnancies will allow families to be as healthy as possible and thus bring up children who will have more safety and less vulnerability.
Look up "Adverse Childhood Events" (ACEs)
ACEs lead to childhood and adult dysfunction and illness, both mental and physical.
Give families a chance to take good care of their kids by giving women the freedom to decide for themselves when to get pregnancy.
2
Like much of the discourse on this topic, the article carelessly conflates "prostitution" with "trafficking". There is some overlap, but these are not the same thing. Some people make a rational choice that sex work is the best employment opportunity open to them, and many choose to operate as independent agents. That is prostitution, and it may be deplorable, but it is not trafficking.
173
The way to combat labor trafficking of all kinds is to support and protect the independence, agency, and safety of the workers, whether they are agricultural workers, restaurant workers, nail salon workers, or sex workers.
Ms. Rosenberg reports more approvingly about prohibitionary policies than worker supportive policies. Also while citing a 2012 Harvard Law Study on decriminalization and trafficking she ignores the more recent and comprehensive 2016 Amnesty International study and position paper.
65
@David Greenlee Unionizing the profession is the only way to protect to sex workers.
An exercise in futility. Legalize, Educate, and Regulate.
78
@Julian Parks Decriminalize, not legalize, sex work.
2
@Jay,
You can't regulate something that is not legal.
Legalize and regulate.
5
@Nash,
You are assuming that the O.P. has never considered this topic before.
Believe it or not, some of us have acquired knowledge before reading articles in the Times.
This ad made me think that someone had hacked my phone. It is confusing how it appears on mobile.
19
I was ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED that I clicked on an ad for prostitutes, it should be made clear that it’s a lead in picture
2
This article needs to address unintended consequences.
So, YAY!—high tech cops caught bad people with the intention of having sex with minors for money. It's worth opening this pandora's box just for this moral victory, right?
Perhaps not.
Without fully comprehending, here we have the police unleashing a crude AI to catch people in the act. Their software will evolve over a few years to include deep fakes of women or even children who can make phone calls to these bad boys, luring them further.
Spread the fear in the network—it's all for a good cause.
Pandora is smiling. He knows that deep fakes will consume our entire culture in a very short time, destroying any trust that's left in our networked "society", where nothing is authentic.
Law enforcement, apparently, won't be there to protect us from the bombardment of digital impostors headed our way—instead, they'll be in on the act.
61
@Questioner,
I see nothing in the article that says that this program is concerned only with minors.
4
@Questioner
Pandora was a woman.
11
@Questioner I get 20 spam calls a day, now. Let's not get carried away with premonitions of a dystopian future, but do we really want our law enforcement to be behind the times? Hindering prostitution and human trafficking keeps the rest of us safe, too.
7
Seems to be an interesting use of the Turing test.
15
The very definition of entrapment
163
@Clay Not as that term is defined legally.
17
@Clay
There is no entrapment if you just do what is right and obey the law!
15
@Bob R,
Legally, it says that the person is not entrapped if he intended to commit a crime.
But many people might respond out of curiosity, or for more information.
This whole program violates free speech.
11
Please consider adding a third article to this excellent series: how financial institutions can detect indicators of human trafficking
44
So entrapment?
33
@N You boys need to stay off of these naughty websites! For shame!!
8
@Susan
Not everyone is happy being a good little puritan.
I wonder what the N.Y.P.D. does with the email list they compile?
7
@W
If you're lucky, they'll do the same thing they do with rape test kits--stick them in a warehouse, forever forgotten.
3
I think this is a horrendous idea. Cruel even. People are not perfect cognitive beings, and especially when it comes to this sort of thing. David Booth has this right. This is entrapment. Some laws have so much human history of wisdom behind them, and AI has nothing that will ever measure up to that.
75
@DudeNumber42
Being willing to buy a 15 year old for sex is a horrendous idea. Cruel even.
For there to be consequences for the adult men taking that action is neither.
23
@DudeNumber42: Just remember: "On the internet, no one knows you're a dog." You don't know who's for real, and who's a bot.
But maybe, in this case, we're seeing a LOT of dogs who were hoping not to be sniffed out...
3
@DudeNumber42
This is not entrapment. Entrapment is getting somebody to do something they wouldn't do. These guys are looking for a prostitute and don't care if she is underage.
7
Or we could just legalize, license, and regulate the sex trade, because it isn't going anywhere ever.
361
@QED
Did you see the study cited in the article that legalization massively increases demand and also trafficking? This suggests that demand is not at a fixed level, and could be potentially decreased further. Of course the prostitution rate will never go completely down to zero, just as the homicide rate will never be zero or fentanyl overdose rates will never be zero, but that doesn't mean that we can't use evidence based approaches to decrease the numbers as much as possible. I think the right approach is to stop arresting prostitutes (who are overwhelmingly underage victims) and focus more on johns and the traffickers themselves.
101
@QED Trafficking increases in countries that have legalized prostitution. So it makes things worse for victims, but for you -- like the men contacted in this article -- don't care about the plight of underage and/or trafficked girls and women, only about the personal impact on them.
62
@E B Increased demand for prostitution is not a negative consequence of legalization.
Did you see the study cited in the article that said "legalizing prostitution — buying as well as selling sex — does make life healthier and safer for prostitutes, and encourages buyers to prefer legal prostitutes over illegal ones, who are more likely to be trafficked?"
46
Help me out--how does this ensnare traffickers? If they think they can eliminate prostitution, or reduce the demand, with a bot, I have about 8,000 years of history to introduce them to.
The best answer is to empower the 'victims.' Work to improve their lives; give them options to avoid, or to get out of, prostitution if that's what they want, work to make prostitution safer. Part of that will be expunging police records and learning, as a society, to treat former (and current) sex workers with respect.
Empowered sex workers won't tolerate traffickers, either with respect to their own 'business' or their competition.
126
@Justin
"Empowered sex workers won't tolerate traffickers"
Won't tolerate? Trafficked sex workers (slaves) are kidnapped, beaten, burned and tortured so they won't leave. Some are kidnapped as small children or babies. The only way to empower them, so they are not kidnapped into a ring, is to arrest the traffickers. Most prostitutes are not getting paid these days...they are kidnap victims.
16
That is ENTRAPMENT if the police department is soliciting, even if it is a well-intended ploy.
120
@David Booth Not under the legal definition of entrapment.
9
And since the cops deliberately confuse "prostitution" with actual trafficking, it is instead ill-intended.
11
Bob R,
The legal definition assumes that a person is not entrapped if he is deliberately setting out to commit a crime.
There's no way to disinguish that intent from mere curiosity. Asking about the terms of the sex is speech, protected by the Constitution.
But then, the police have never shown much respect for that document.
2