Difficult to understand why the EU would not give another extension for a softer Brexit to be approved by the UK and EU parliaments.
EU should kick them to the curb next week.... see who comes to play then.
2
This is what happens when a supranational government is bolted on top of an existing national government. The UK's system of government just wasn't designed to deal with this kind of thing—no nation's is. It's one of many reasons why I'm a nationalist and support UK's efforts to leave the EU, as ugly as the process unavoidably is.
2
@Mark This is what happens when RW National extremism is admitted too much influence on anything.
4
@Mark What are you talking about? What exactly has the EU done that makes it in any way responsible for the train wreck that is British politics?
2
It’s a complete disaster. Many politicians are drastically at fault here but easily the biggest single failure is our PM May. She’s followed closely by the Tory party full of extremist ideologues and/or just cruel, insensitive people. Their policies over the last 10 years have led us to the leave vote. If the Labour Party were this extreme and intransigent the right wing press would be calling for an army coup. But our opposition party have not been as vocal about the importance of the EU and have tried to serve themselves rather than the country. No one comes out of this well.
4
The sooner all those Brexiters politicians make their clean break from the EU, the sooner they can find the £350 Million that they promised their voters they would deliver annually for their NHS.
9
@JSD You made a mistake. Farage and Johnson promised 350 Million British Pound per week.
4
The EU's warning may well be seen as but the latest reminder that, even though it is permissible to check out of the Hotel California, one may never leave.
4
Hello The Prime Minister’s inability to deliver an orderly Brexit, and her consequent reach across the aisle to salvage the situation, were entirely predictable. Like Trump is in the U.S. Brexit has always been a project led by reactionary money demagogues like Johnson and Rees-Mogg who are fully insulated from the consequences of their actions. Like Trump, the hardline Brexiteers conducted a dishonest campaign based on promises they knew they couldn’t keep. That campaign was based on nativist emotional appeals, nor realistic consideration of Brexit’s pros and cons.
The problem is that a reactionary political program designed by demagogues that sweeps to power based on the support of credulous low-information voters is no basis for an actual legislative program. Brexit’s reactionary sponsors are only interested in flipping the metaphorical bird at the EU. The Britons who voted for Brexit want things that can never be delivered. The same is true of Trump is in the United States, which is delivered precisely one legislative outcome — one that has nothing to do with the interests of hard-core Trump supporters.
Is it any wonder that when put to the test, the Brexit project falls apart?
12
This is something that is so complex it shouldn't ever had a popular vote. The vote was supposed to be for politicians that did their job.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of politicians in the UK, just like the USA, who never took on their job to be responsible to their constituents in that way. And the UK is paying the price, like the USA, for electing loudmouths and indignants, and hating on 'moderates' which would mean 'thinking'.
When you have extremist and indignant politics, and you can here them right in the comments section, where people namecall others who don't think like them, then you get a lose/lose scenario like Brexit.
Enjoy the lack of prosperity. It was voted for.
8
May wants a fourth "meaningful" vote, whatever that is. The other three weren't meaningful enough, I suppose. I believe it's Einstein who is credited with saying "The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result." I see this quoted interchanging the words stupidity and insanity. Either will do.
9
Brexit is starting to seem more and more like the fyre festival.
7
The Brexit “plan” is as worthless as the GOP plan to replace the Affordable Care Act i.e., Obamacare.
7
Theresa May is no Queen Elizabeth I nor Queen Victoria nor Margaret Thatcher. Who knew?
3
I'm sure someone posted this before, but here it is again:
There is always the option to cancel Brexit.
6
One has to ask...what is it that they want???
3
You can't have your cake (free trade access) and eat it too (opt out of E.U. regs, etc.).
3
Watching the normally reliable SKYTV British news and the surreal behavior of the reporter as he interviewed two EU representatives summed up the whole thing for me.
"Surely it's you (the EU) who are insisting on a border between Ireland & N. Ireland?" "Shouldn't this be a British issue alone?"
Remind me who triggered article 50 again?
No - Ireland is a sovereign nation, an EU member and no longer your doormat. Likewise the rest of the Europe and the world who don't 'need' you for anything at all. By the way thanks so much for crushing my and my children's option to live and work in all the EU nations. All the 'best'. TTFN
4
@David Johnson That reporter likely never even heard of the Good Friday Accord. People aren't going to be too happy when the guns start blazing again.
3
Theresa May finds okay to vote 3 or 4 times for the same deal, but she finds unpalatable to have another Brexit referendum.
7
Brexit poses a greater existential threat to the UK than Trump does to the US. The consequences are so monumental, and the 2016 vote so uninformed, that I should think a second referendum should be called now that many more people understand what they would be voting for. Also, any second referendum should have to gain 2/3 of the vote, and not the 50%-plus-1 vote that the 2016 referendum required. That would ensure national unity on the question. I would like to think that the UK political leadership could reconsider and hold a second referendum, but I have little faith that something momentous and positive will happen between now and April 12. So the UK crashes out and goes back a few decades in time? It's so difficult to watch a nation attack and kill itself.
5
There's something up with this May woman.
She just keeps parroting her "respect for the British people",
knowing full well the first Brexit referendum was a festival of lies, propaganda, racial hate, ignorance, and vile bigotry.
If she had any respect at all for her island peers, she would give them another chance to speak now they have a better grasp of reality.
Either way, win or lose, this process would go far better for everyone.
1
Look here, people, it's really simple:
1) There is a deal on the table that will prevent a hard border in Ireland, but...
2) Nobody want's that deal, because it also - logically - prevents the UK from having "full independence". As long as there is no hard border in Ireland the UK (Northern Ireland...) must stay in some form of pact with the EU, or there would be an open border in the EU towards the world! Smugglers paradise, and...
3) Every "alternative" voted upon is rubbish since it's in no way coordinated with the EU and will not be accepted, and the EU can't negotiate with - lets, say - the DUP or the SIP, so...
4) Net result: only three ways about it:
4a) Cancel Brexit
4b) Sign the deal, which means you basically stay in the EU
4c) Have a hard Brexit, with a hard border in Ireland, and "The Troubles 2.0", this time maybe with the help of ISIS or the Russians, who started this whole mess to begin with!
Good luck. I'm all for 4a, by the way.
5
I think too many comments are based on ascribing the current situation to matters of personalities, whether to individuals or to amorphous entities such as the EU or Little Britain.
But, the Brexiteers are in a lose-lose situation. Brexit will have severe economic and practical consequences - everything from higher interest rates to keep the pound stable to having to pay for health insurance on your Spanish vacation (and incurring roaming charges). If you "own" Brexit, and assuming that May's plan and Brexit are now synonymous, you own all the negative consequences.
The other Brexit plans suffer from the same problem. And you wonder why they are all losing. This is not a matter of personality, but of cold calculation.
Alternatively, if you call off Brexit, you will be punished by the electorate for doing so. No wonder no one wants it.
Problems like this don't get solved until the very last minute, which is April 9th now. The run up to the last minute is certainly dramatic though.
2
No more votes. No more extensions. It is painfully obvious to everyone except Parliament that the reason they keep voting down the Brexit plan is because they don't really want to leave.
Have the gumption to stand up today and announce, " Brexit is dead." There will be some angry people, but they will get over it. Brexit is forever and is a bad deal for everyone - including those who voted "leave."
5
As amply shown during this immense circus, in which the key performers/clowns are the MPs, the only way out of this quagmire is NO DEAL.
And yes, No Deal is No Problem, since nothing else works.
Although, perhaps May will have luck 4th time. She deserves it.
"Trade deals are easy" We have heard that before.
Turns out, it's a lot more complicated when facts get in the way.
With 10 days to go the UK is on the edge of disaster.
6
The U.K. is offering the world a vivid contemporary example of the kind of "thinking" that darkened its former empire:
"Holding a second popular referendum on the Brexit would be 'undemocratic,' but conducting a fourth vote in Parliament on May's thrice-rejected proposal would be 'democratic.'"
The "march of folly" never ends.
7
Apparently, Theresa May will go to Brussels and ask for an extension so a new deal can be worked out in Parliament. This would require the E.U. to go over the details again and engage in another round of negotiations with May. As the title of this news article suggests, Brussels will be irate over a vague, "We'll have another go at it and hope you agree." The nightmare just gets worse by the day.
6
Anybody looking at Brexit from outside GB sees it as an unmitigated mess. Not even a majority of the English by now believe is is a good idea and yet the politicians stubbornly insist on going ahead without being able to agree on how to do it. The simplest solution is to let the Brexit proponents take responsibility for producing a plan that the EU will accept. Lacking that, a second referendum choosing between hard Brexit and no Brexit is the sensible way to a final decision.
13
@serban
Sensible, though not everyone outside GB sees Brexit as a mess. Vladimir Putin must be tickled pink.
3
Any extension granted would be suicidal to the EU. At this point Britain is so toxic that keeping it in the EU would ultimately destroy the union and the continent. The UK narrative is that they are prisoners of the EU ("Hotel California") and this narrative is gaining traction across the continent. If they get the extension, it will be viewed as a form of forced occupation by many Europeans. UK's participation in EU elections is also absurd to the highest degree. The Second Referendum is also a lost cause.
I was strongly against Brexit back in 2016 and mildly so until this circus of 2019. But at this point, as a very pro-EU person, I now stand (symbolically) with the no-deal Brexiteers. I pray, for the sake of peace and prosperity of Europe and the EU, that UK leaves on April 12. No-deal is the best deal right now.
8
@natan -- "The Second Referendum is also a lost cause."
I agree. It seems to be now just a talisman, a way out that is more presumed than real. Since all else has failed, voters will of course just make it go away, in much the same way that the same sort of thinking presumed that Mueller would just make Trump go away.
Someone needs to write a White Paper on leaving and staying in the EU. A referendum vote is not a White Paper and no one knows what to do in the UK without the stepwise details always presented in a UK White Paper. All UK citizens get this joke.
Had a White Paper been written before the vote no one would have voted to leave.
10
@terry brady Please excuse a suggestion by a foreigner whose country cannot solve it's own problems. The "white paper " should definitely be prepared and approved by Parliament. The difficult task of developing and wording acceptable ballot alternatives which understandable by the British public will remain.
The political dilemma forpoliticians dealing with national crisis is that the line between damage to and death of democratic government is not always clear in the heat of the moment.
If the threat to the nation is external, it tends to unite the population. When the debate is domestic and compromise is declared traitorous, political factions sanctify their nonnegotiable parochial principles and endanger the national welfare.
Eventually, only a temporary dictator ,democratically empowered ,to impose a solution stands between conservation of democratic government and revolution.The UK is not unique in this .
Lincoln , de Gaulle, Napoleon after Robespierre’sTerror, and of course Churchill in WW II, each demonstrate that all democratic governance can be held hostage hostage to fanatics who confuse allegiance to their form of revealed truth over their absolute obligation to place the preservation of their nation above personal victory. In a true existential crisis, only an extra Democratic crisis manager, can resolve the crisis. Will England find their Cinncinatus in time? Time is very short
@Thomas I thought in the U.K. that was part of the function of the Crown in such cases.
3
The wrath of a vengeful God Vishnu on little England for the misdeeds in British "Raj" from 1757 to 1947.
It ends with Tata Industries acquiring most of England as a vassal state.
20
Presumably this piece does not intend to imply that canceling Brexit is no longer possible. . . .
2
The UK has had enough time and clearly cannot come to any agreement. The EU should just give them the boot on April 12, as advocated by the French. It will hurt the EU but will be more painful for the UK. Time to let them live with their poor decisions.
11
The way out of this predicament is actually the way back in. Hold another referendum. UK polls show a fairly definitive advantage for remaining of about 45 percent to 38 for Brexit. This pattern has held for about a year. The people has gotten wise to the mischief being fomented by Farage, Johnson and other rightwing bunglers. Stop the nonsense. Now.
11
I'm amazed at how well-informed the U.S. commenters are on all things European. This article should have a comment section reserved for people in EU and UK who are living through this and who know what's at stake.
4
@Ken L: Steven Elanger's article is simply correct.
@Ken L
From comments on here I can confirm that many US commenters are well informed and certainly more sensible in their assessment of the situation than the ruling elite of Little England.
1
@Ken L
So long as non-Americans reciprocate and say nothing regarding USA-based news stories. Since we all know that will never happen, we'll continue as we are.
That cursed Brexit unicorn keeps staying just...out...of...reach.
I have a neighbor who moved into our HOA, knowing about the rules and signing the agreement. A while later he was complaining about something the HOA was making him do. When I pointed out that “dems the rules” he said the HOA was not being reasonable. Brexit in a nutshell!
No matter what happens half of the British public will feel betrayed and it’s all the E.U.’s fault for not being reasonable. Good times ahead!
4
Why not use The Boor’s or Corbin’s plan?
Wait, now I remember, they never had one.
2
@TheUglyTruth The plan was: Don't leave the EU
@TheUglyTruth Sounds likee Republican health care in the US
The EU read the riot act to the UK.
PM May’s Brexit “deal” was defeated three times in Parliament … she must face reality … she has lost the confidence of both Parliament and the public.
Theresa May must stop repeatedly riding her rocking-horse of arguments for Brexit … enough, already !!! … she must go !!!
After three years of mind-numbing idiocy … the UK is now at the 11th hour.
There is only one solution: There is a need for a second Referendum and a new election.
13
Now that the British are more aware of the many problems related to leaving the EU, which was not made apparent to the population when Cameron drove them off the cliff, it is time for another referendum to be held, as soon as possible.
7
Tory members voted as a block against May's plan AND against each of the other alternatives, leaving by default the catastrophic hard Brexit route. The people who championed Brexit are bereft of ideas for implementing it. It's all been a game for Johnson, Farage and Gove.
6
Another "win-win" for isolationists!
It's too bad Donald Trump is "letting" Theresa May run England, because if he was running the show this whole Brexit thing would be as "good, and easy to win" as a tariff war.
Oh well. I guess the British will just have to continue to be green with envy over our "stable genius", "master negotiator"...
3
Throw. Them. Out.
This is what the Brits wanted - to leave. Everyone told them how difficult it would be to untangle themselves; the problems - too many to enumerate - were well documented, discussed and laid out. The lies of the Leave camp were exposed ad nauseum before the vote. But the Brits decided they wanted to leave. And now that it's time, they're realizing how awful all the options are.
Well, I say give them what they asked for. Next Friday, April 12, at 11:59 PM - THROW. THEM. OUT.
Goodbye and good riddance.
5
For all its failings, Parliament has managed to do something I thought it was impossible: make our administration appear semi-competent in comparison.
I wonder if Trump isn't paying them under the table to make him look better. Of course, it could also be Putin just to show that democracy doesn't work.
12
@Steve
It isn't that the administration looks better, it's that our system of government (minus the electoral college) looks better. Thank God for our checks and balances. -- thegamesmenplay.com
Just as the US will likely recover from its temporary insanity on November 3, 2020, the UK needs to recover from its own temporary insanity called Brexit. Grandstanding politicians sold the idea of Brexit largely by lying through their teeth about the so-called benefits of going it alone- Make Britain Great Again, anyone? Mrs. May, incredibly, will try for a fourth time to pass her plan, expecting a different result, but refuses to hold a second Referendum, this time without the Brexit hype. The only reasonable plan is to have no plan. Stay in the EU!
6
The phrase "race to the bottom" comes to mind when reading about America and Britain's stranglehold by a minority of each country's citizens...
Should not the true underpinnings of what a democracy is supposed to be given a little more than lip service?
Racism, identified as the chief motor driving these country's political machinations, will deliver a nasty, and bittersweet karmic reward.
8
Typical EU. If they cannot force us to have a second referendum they threaten us instead. And people still wonder why we voted to leave. The EU is a failing organisation that is trying to create an EU state without seeking the approval of the electorate.
6
@Jason
Wait a minute. It was the UK who wanted to leave and it was the UK who triggered Article 50 straight away.
That is not the EU's fault.
The EU is not trying to create a EU state. The EU is a union of 28 soon 27 sovereign countries.
4
@Jason
The UK created this mess and initiated this process, dude. You have nerve complaining that everybody isn't bending over backwards "to make Brexit a success," as Theresa May so stupidly put it.
What possible incentive does the EU have to make it easy for you to dissolve their Union and be rewarded? It's extraordinarily naive to think this was ever going to be on your terms.
Just go and suffer the consequences of your actions but don't blame others.
5
@Jason
These are all stunningly wrong statements. Just alternative facts.
I am honestly surprised the NYT "picked" that.
Why UK people believed all the obvious lies in the first place will remain their/your secret though.
3
This article does not castigate the Members of Parliament for failure to approve the "deal". Thank you. For the first time since the Cromwell period the Members are trying to control the arrogance of the Executive.
I believe the House is trying to exert the same role, more effectively. It is a fluid and frustrating relationship.
The Executive had 2.5 years to find common ground and did not bother. Instead the Executive decided the parameters of the deal without ANY discussion with any of the Members.
It is a very difficult situation. Reading Barnier's comments I know we are in severe trouble but realise how we have to suffer for having the temerity of wishing to have the power pass our own laws. I believe that the USA would grumble in the same situation.
In passing thank you for your coverage. God Bless America ( and England)!
12
@Ben Beaumont Except, of course, for the small facts that (1) the members cannot decide what they want to do, and (2) a number of the popular plans will be DOA with the EU or the EFTA
1
@Ben Beaumont
America did grumble: It was the War of Independence.
A major consideration for moving your company's "continental" headquarters to England was the English language. Back in the day, that might have made sense. The ironic spread of English throughout the continent means England has become unnecessary. Hard-Soft Brexit; it really doesn't matter, the damage is in play and returning is not an option.
8
The Brits at this point are really wasting the time the EU would need to deal with some other important issues. They have to come clear with their own inner divisions now, before any more time should be dedicated to that issue. Brexit will not be the end of the world neither for the UK nor for the EU.
5
The answer that requires no EU approval is to withdraw the Article 50 notice. If the UK can, in two years or ten years, figure out what is for, it can submit another application. It is too much to expect the EU to continue in perpetual uncertainty until the UK--better Little England--sets its house in order.
14
My Wife and I visited England after Trump had been in office for a just over a year. We were visiting Salisbury and I struck up a conversation with a museum curator and jokingly said we should have stayed with the Crown 240 years ago and we might be better off in the present day. Now I realize with sadness the English have thier "Build that Wall" crowd too and that Parliament has just as bad a case of gridlock as the U.S. Congress.
22
@Charles Stockwell
At least we'd have universal health care if nothing else.
5
With Bernie, we still can fight for our own NHS.
The time is now.
Have another referendum
7
@Jordan Davies
To what end?
2
I have thought that for many months now. But I fear it is too late now. The damage is done.
The EU telling Britain what to do was the root of this problem.
3
@Thomas Smith That is a silly statement when it is clear that the majority in Parliament never had a plan to leave and still can't decide how to leave.
6
@Thomas Smith : UK is part of the EU. They asked for a divorce. Divorces need a contract, a treaty. They negotiated for two years. Now UK will probably leave without a contract (I don't like the word deal). That will harm the poor people in the UK a lot. Farage is EU-pensioner and gets his pension in EURO. With the crashing British Pound he makes a fortune. Rees-Moog brought all his money to Dublin and changed it into EURO before the disaster started. He will be rich in British Pound. Look on the reality and who makes the real big money from Brexit.
2
The Europeans are tired of the twisted tragi-comedy being played out in the UK. The insults hurled at Europe over the past 3 years have not been forgotten. The waters of the English channel have been soiled and polluted. Well done, Vladimir.
My only hope is that without the UK, the EU will manage to reform into a democratic (con)federation with a unified army that includes the French nuclear deterrent. Things won't look quite so rosy from the Kremlin then.
16
@Erik
I agree so much with you on how the EU could reform itself.
The UK refused to adopt the euro.
The UK has refused to join the Schengen zone.
The UK has not allowed discussion on a unified EU military.
The UK has wanted all the benefits of the EU but has only ever had just one foot inside.
The EU will be better off without the UK.
23
The British people were dumb enough to ignore the warnings of all experts and follow clownish charlatans like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage into this Brexit hell. They voted for it and they deserve to get it good and hard.
The EU should not allow any more delays so that Parliament's useless politicians can bicker and waste more time.
24
@Matthew Rodney
I agree but you should have at least given H.L. Mencken credit for the "good and hard" comment.
He said "Democracy is the theory that people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
5
Yes, let them crash out. Foolish people taken in by idiots and liars.
As someone who used to live in the U.K., there’s really no limit to the level of Britain’s arrogance and self-importance which probably led them to believe they’d be able to leverage a better deal with Brussels. Unfortunately, the EU has come to the realization that they’d be better off without the U.K.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
5
@Steve Good point. I definitely got the quote from Mencken and should have attributed to him.
2
Decisions have consequences, or so we try and teach our children.
The decision was made by Mr. Cameron to hold a referendum. It had consequences. The decision was made by the people, probably without understanding the consequences, to leave. That decision has consequences. The Parliament has decided to act like it has an alternative to the negotiated plan, which it doesn't. That has consequences.
In the end, it is going to be a no deal Brexit because none of the players in the UK government is willing to do anything that makes sense.
Scotland should hold a referendum on independence, they have too much to gain by not doing so. Northern Ireland should vote to join the Republic of Ireland, though that will certainly be more complicated. Economically, it is in their best interests, and, usually, that will trump religious differences.
The consequence of the Brexit vote will be the dissolution of the "United" Kingdom.
50
Since everyone is comparing Brexit to our election of Trump will make this analogy. What would have been the result of 2016 if Hillary had put Bernie on the ticket? She would have won, without any doubt. She decided she was in the catbird seat though and refused to reconsider her safe bet of Timmy Kaine. Compare to the EU. They could have negotiated a fair agreement, but they too think they are in the catbird seat and see no reason to make accommodations. When its a No Deal Brexit and the EU gets hurt at least as much as the UK just remember what Could Have Been. It would be President Clinton right now if only she had tapped Bernie to be her number 2. And for the record, no you do not get a do-over.
7
@GregP
Can you point out what's so not fair in the Withdrawal Agreement in your opinion?
Is it the 'divorce payment'? Or is it the backstop?
Or something else?
2
@GregP. There would be a certain poetic justice in Bernie getting the nomination and selecting Hillary as his VP. Of course he would need additional security staff and a food taster, but it would be justice!
4
@GregP--did we forget that HRC's conspiracy and collusion with the DNC to get Bernie out of the primaries was "election meddling" much worse than anything Russia did. This was our own party and politician attempting to commit fraud against the American public. The "Russian meddling", in part, brought to light the email evidence of this conspiracy.
The one thing Theresa May has failed to do is drive through the thick skulls of the UK voters the fact that the playing field for Brexit negotiations is tilted wildly to the EU side, and that tilt cannot be changed by the UK or any other EU member standing alone.
From its formation, the EU has had a punitive plan in place for countries considering exiting the EU. Why? Because the EU wants to encourage its members to stay, and concomitantly, discourage its members from leaving. The EU does not have to negotiate an exit plan. It will only negotiate an exit plan if it thinks the EU will be better off with a negotiated plan than with the punitive plan already in place. In the case of the UK, the EU decided it made sense to negotiate some changes from the existing punitive plan to one that was a bit less punitive (including not requiring a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland).
Theresa May got the best deal she could on the tilted playing field. So either Parliament accedes to her plan (no one else came up with a better plan for the UK), or the UK leaves the EU under the original punitive arrangements.
People seem to think that Brexit negotiations started with a tabula rasa. Hence they think May negotiated a bad deal. Well, there was no blank slate, and she had very little leverage. Too bad she did a poor job of "selling" that fact to UK voters.
It just seems impossible for people to face reality, if reality isn't to their liking.
61
@ALB All true except you *can't* have an open border between NI and Ireland and have a hard border elsewhere. Without a true "free trade" agreement (ie. staying in the EU), there *will* be a border.
5
@OneView Right, and that is a situation unique to Ireland.
4
@ALB
I see no evidence what so ever of the EU trying to 'punish' the UK. But I see plenty of evidence of the Brexiteers gleefully trying to break the EU.
The Brexiteers can vandalize the UK all they want, as far as I am concerned. The EU on the other hand must make sure it protects itself.
31
After 2 long and drawn out years of negotiations why would the EU countries give any more time to the UK? Global financial institutions have already begun moving out of London. They are moving to other capitals in Europe. One of those capitals has the opportunity to become the "new" financial capital of the world. My monies on Paris!
16
@Francis
BoA has moved to Dublin. Other have moved to Amsterdam and Frankfurt.
My money is on Frankfurt becoming the winner. I just don't think Paris is really all that interested in new construction that would be needed to build these big financial centers.
But, you are correct. Money can be easily moved.
10
Sometimes it's worth it to let the pendulum swing far before it returns to center. We are clearly seeing an extreme move to the right all over the world: US, Europe, India, South America, etc.
It's clear that the English have realized the mistake they made and want to reverse their decisions. They should Brexit and experience the pain before they rejoin.
People that benefit the most from ObamaCare that continue to ask for its repeal should be given just that. Only then will they (hopefully) realize their mistake.
34
@Max W
I truly do not think that the EU will allow the UK to rejoin at any point in the future.
If they do, it will be at an extremely high cost to the UK. Perhaps, like all the newly joined countries, the UK would have to give up the pound and adopt the euro.
That would go over well, no doubt.
10
@Roger Binion I think, most of us EU-ropeans don't want to see UK in the EU again. If they would come back, not longer as UK but as Scotland, Wales, England, and reunited Ireland. UK still dreams in an arrogant way of being an empire. They are not. They are just a union of different small nations living on an island in the North Sea.
2
Little England cannot do anything but just leave, and will blame France and Germany, while holding their breath and stamping their itty bitty feet.
25
Having known a few Brussels-hatin' English people over the years, I can't see how a half-measure Brexit would work. They don't want any lingering "legal and financial obligations" to the EU.
I also can't see how any version of Brexit works if you're a Remainer. The whole point is that you want to be a full part of Europe.
In both cases it's not about trade relationships as such, it's about how one sees the country going into the future. Was anyone in the UK really voting for the kind of thing May's deal would bring about? May, Johnson, Corbyn and the rest just sound like scheming politicians -- no help whatsoever in what is a crisis of nationhood.
14
@Duncan
Don't blame May for this. She was just the one unlucky enough to have been handed this disgusting mess as all the men who pushed for this disappeared the second the vote was tallied.
She did the best she could under difficult circumstances. Problem was, no one knew what Brexit would look like when they were given that 11 word referendum ballot on whether to leave or remain in the EU.
Now that people know, no one is pleased.
3
What a mess. It can be laid at the feet of Boris Johnson (who has the audacity to think he can be the next PM!) and Nigel Farage...two self-serving politicians who managed to sell the gullible public a true "bill of goods". We, in this country, know how that goes.
63
@Etienne
And after getting that bill of goods passed, vanished in the night like cockroaches scurrying from the kitchen light.
11
@Etienne
Entirely true. Johnson and Farage have acted like deceitful cowards. They pitched a fraudulent bill of goods that preyed upon people's worst instincts and when the referendum passed, they hid in the shadows and let May take all the height. Not only that, they tried to sabotage any efforts she made.
1
Sir Isaac Newton, a fellow of Trinity College and the second Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge, would have stated it thusly in his "Principia":
"An object in uniform motion stays in motion uniformly unless a force is acted upon it."
It appears that no force is acting upon the Parliament, otherwise it would have moved.
Therefore, there are no actual pressures on all the various ministers that are sufficient to get them to agree to any deal.
There are no planes flying over the Channel.
There are no pirates sailing the Caribbean stealing the spices.
There are no upstart colonials dumping tea in harbors.
There are no African indigenous nations rebelling against Empire.
There are no great marches to the sea for salt.
There are no Enigma codes to be broken.
There are no red or white roses on lapels.
There are no Hotspurs waiting on the fields of Shrewsbury.
There are no Mordreds needing a father's gentle touch.
The land of Arthur has seen the Round Table broken yet again.
Perhaps PM May shall throw a sword in a lake, and challenge them all to quest for the future, and mourn for paradise lost.
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The politicians and media barons who entered us into this mess, and those who continue to frustrate the UK by entertaining the damaging prospect of a no deal, are guilty of large scale indirect crimes worse than nearly every person currently locked up in jail.
When you think about the vast number of victims who’s livelihoods and health are being decimated by this exercise in Etonian grandstanding you begin to realise that is is only the intangibility of a murder weapon with fingerprints on it that prevents a solid prosecution. Unfortunately, too many of the victims also have Stockholm syndrome and continue to support their captors.
This new wave of authoritarianism somehow draws confidence from a democratic referendum. This is their shield to any and all criticism. By corrupting a referendum they were able to turn democracy against itself.
Is there a word for politically motivated crime like there is ‘white collar crime’ for financially motivated crime? If not, let’s call it ‘brown collar crime’ because of the stain it leaves on society.
All things considered I’d rather have the EU supreme over the UK. They are not perfect, but I think the majority of their actions are in our interests. The UK government has repeatedly shown they do not care about us. Just look at how differently they treat big corporations.
How can we defend democracy from corruption without sacrificing the values that democracy is based on? This is what we must figure out.
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the EU lives by the rules. the UK lives by bangers for breakfast.
of course, you can't have bangers for breakfast without reading the london tabloids while you eat, and fleet street assures you: brexit is fun.
boris johnson says it, jeremy corbyn says it. it must be true!
who's for brexit? they're old, uneducated, retired or working class, "rural". who's for remain? they're young, educated, professional, affluent, "urban".
grandpa has the steering wheel. and he's headed for a crash landing at a Wimpy's for breakfast! -- why? because it's had the same menu since 1955.
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@drollereBut let’s be clear that tose young liberal elites living in swank London, profiting of the predatory neloberal system that the City epitomizes, are also part of the problem and why the deplorables voted for Brexit anyway. It’s a very similar dynamic that got Trump elected here.
Corbyn would definitely be part of the solution and not the problem if he would put the City in check with a more democratic socialist government.
As European, i’m not interested in seeing the UK in the EU until they put the neoliberal City bankers in check.
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@heinrich zwahlen
Scotland voted overwhelmingly to Remain.
That's hardly swanky London.
Oh, and all those swanky London places and high paying jobs? Those are what keep the Deplorables of Little Britain from falling into complete and abject poverty.
Just wait until all those financial services jobs pack up and leave. You might have a different opinion then.
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@heinrich zwahlen
Plenty of "young liberals" in place like Bristol, Liverpool, Glasgow, and Manchester, you know, very "swank" "neo-liberal" cities voted for remain. Because when you think of "swank" I think of Bristol.
And the last time I checked, Corbyn was very much for pro-Brexit and still wants it to happen. Does that make him a "deplorable" too? The majority of Labour supporters either want to cancel Article 50 or have another referendum about it, which is a position Corbyn grudging accepts. Are those "deplorables" too?
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Incompetent politicians muddling about have created a quagmire. Honestly, at this point, just exit as scheduled and be done with it; then start, as the article states, negotiating as would any other non-EU country on travel, trade, etc. It isn't really that hard, once egos are set aside.
Will there be chaotic elements and distress? Yes, but that will happen in two weeks or two months or two years. In the end, the UK will be better off charting its own course again, but it will have to weather the storm to regain the sovereignty which it should never have tossed away in the first place. At least they had the brains to save the pound sterling, which will help considerably.
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@George S
The UK will not be better off charting its own course. That was the Big Lie of Brexit.
As for the pound, perhaps you should check out the current exchange rate. And maybe even a chart showing its decline since this vote back in 2016.
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From across the pond, there seems to be a very easy solution. If you can't agree on a Brexit plan... then don't Brexit. Poll after poll says that, in the last two years, opinions have changed with more people favoring to just remain in the EU. Plus, there's plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest that that naughty ol' Putin was up to no good the first time around. So, hey, Theresa May, just stay!
Good grief. What's wrong with them?
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@Brannon Perkison
Highly likely Brexit would not pass if voted on again. The voters who passed this referendum succumbed to pretty much the same misinformation campaign (Putin’s) conducted in the US and they ascribed to some serious magical thinking regarding the outcome.
Unfortunately for Britain, while it’s citizens may have regrets, the EU is not willing to play games and is moving on without them.
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The logical solution is no Brexit and the E.U. will go along and even welcome that end. Brexit is a huge mistake and can be solved by a second referendum that "Remain" will win.
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@JWMathews
That's why They are afraid of a second referendum.
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@JWMathews
The UK doesn't even need another referendum. Parliament could just unilaterally kill Brexit by a simple vote and the UK can stay in the EU.
At least, until April 12, that is. After that, they out whether they like it or not. Of course, unless the EU grants the UK another extension, which I highly doubt.
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@JWMathews First they shall leave. And we will be happy to accept Scotland and reunited Ireland in the EU. England and Wales can come back if they stop driving on the wrong side of the street and accept the EURO.
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