Sadly, the gardener is not cashing the checks because he is forgetful. The reason is because he is (likely) on Medicare or Medicaid and will lose his benefits if he cashes the check. This is the deplorable situation with my gardener and so I pay him a bundle of cash or in grocery-store gift cards.
7
Two ways to look at this - are you being paid to work a specific number [X #] of hours, or being paid to accomplish certain tasks and they are to be completed within [X #] of hours.
If employees are given 8 hours to finish a task and one works fast & effiencetly and completes said job in 6 hours, and kills two hours through out the day in the coffee room; and a second employee works slower and takes all eight hours to finish the job, isn't the day fair to both, and the employer as well?
That being said, I read this letter carefully because I am facing the similar situation - a co-worker who spends the day on Facebook, online shopping, etc while several of us toil on to the tasks at hand. The malingering colleague does not create more work for me as we have different responsibilities, but degrades the overall efficiency of the department.
I just had an experience similar to the grass-cutter employer. At our summer place, a man in the neighborhood comes and cuts the grass when it needs it. His wife has delivered an invoice at the end of the season, which we would pay. But I just noticed that we never got an invoice for last year, so I called and got his wife. She said he was giving up the business -- he has some health issues -- and he told her not to send us a bill last year. I said that we didn't feel right not paying -- he did the work, so we should pay for it! She was insistent, though. I'm still not sure what to do. I am pretty sure the money would be helpful to them.
Regarding the coworker: If she gets the job done, maybe management doesn't care if she's abusing her privileges. That said, you definitely have a right (and possibly an obligation) to report the things that *do* affect you, such as having to handle complaints about her. Take some data on how frequently you have to do this and how much of your time it takes away from your job duties, then present that information to your manager as a problem with your own day-to-day work.
3
I took an hourly job and negotiated leaving early because I didn't want to ship out books, but had plenty of editorial skills, so the owner agreed.
Coworker did shipping, and I knew she resented me walking out at 3. But my gut told me this weird publishing co. would be a place I wanted to leave early.
This person sounds hideous, but shrewd to set up a good situation for herself.
2
Re: the co-worker.
You get paid whether she works or not.
8
I was in a similar situation in a small company. The company president was aware of the employee's abuses but viewed them as minor nuisances. In this case, the employee's actions created significant extra work for my colleagues and me. I realized at some point that the president wasn't feeling the pain enough to address the issue and viewed our complaints as a nuisance. So I created a spreadsheet to document how much paid time this employee was, in effect, stealing from the company. After three months, I consolidated the data and presented it to our president. The employee, who had been at the company for over 20 years, was fired the same day. In the right situation, demonstrating the facts simply and without judgemental commentary allows your manager to save face and gives her/him the tools necessary to take action.
9
Regarding the gardener If the man lives three blocks away from you, are you sure the man is actually in the landscaping business, and not just a nice neighbor with a lawnmower who happens to not mind cutting grass? Perhaps at one point he thought mowing grass might generate extra income, but turned out to be something he really didn’t want to pursue, and he doesn’t want to embarrass you by telling you that you’re his only customer.
4
@Alice Luitjens
I think he could have memory issues.
6
Regarding the co-worker issue: It's hard to get in trouble when you mind your own business. The person does not report to you nor is she impacting your job or career.
You're not a supervisor. Perhaps the wisest move is to focus on becoming a supervisor so then you can manage your own team instead of giving unsolicited advice to management about your co-worker. Nobody likes a busybody.
17
LW 1: Maybe one day you will find yourself in a situation where you don't want to work 100% for reasons you are unwilling to share with an obviously unfriendly co-worker.
17
“She gets the job done with minimal effort” so unless she’s preventing you from doing your job mind your own business. She probably has considerable experience that allows her to easily accomplish her job. And I guarantee management know how she works and they’re okay with it. What would you rather employees do have have them chain themselves to their desk wether they work or not? This is 2019 not 1919 get over it.
16
LW3: Why not ask them if their insurance appraiser has been by to “give them a quote yet”? Puts the ball in their court to find out if they’ve been scammed. And if they just got the stuff for bragging purposes, they won’t care.
15
I disagree with the last answer. I think those people may be trying to impress people and probably know they bought fakes. Why embarrass them? Maybe they feel like they can't keep up with their friends.
17
Good advice for NW1. Unfortunately, many of us work alongside bad employees. We tolerate their laziness, cover their mistakes, adjust for their incompetence and if they’re jerks (as they often are), suffer their affronts. It’s the supervisors’ job to rid the workplace of toxic employees. In fact it’s probably the most important mission of management to identify and address bad employees, given the effect they have on morale and productivity. Problem often is that bad employees are skilled at looking good to management, which only amplifies co-workers’ frustration. But reporting a coworker’s poor performance to HR won’t get the result you want (and the workplace needs) - termination of employment - because it’s simply too difficult to fire employees for poor performance. It’s usually a process of progressive discipline or performance management that takes a long, long time. If you are conversational with a manager you can bring it up, at some risk of sounding like a whiner, but a good manager will listen and maybe start looking at the bad coworker a bit more closely.
4
It’s simple. Give the gardener a sealed envelope with cash. The letter writer will assuage her agitated conscience and the gardener can do what he wants, when he wants, with the cash.
16
Regarding the gardener: My experience as an RN brought this thought to mind. Is this gardener who will not cash your checks a healthy man? One of the early signs of dementia is disorganization. Patients forget to pay bills, cash checks and let activities of adult living slide. Are you close enough that you can comfortably contact his wife and share your concern? Perhaps you can stop by one evening with a check and ask to speak with both the gardener and his wife. She may be unaware that he needs help with bookkeeping and billing.
23
Concerning the lazy coworker, Mr. Appiah is correct that the supervisors know about this and until it causes them a problem, nothing will change. If you go to HR and force them to act, their resentment will focus on you for exposing their lack of action. Are you prepared for those consequences?
What you can do is make yourself valuable by doing the best you can, but also not covering for your coworker's mistakes, let the consequences fall on her. Eventually when the pain becomes enough, the company will act.
8
I suspect that either the gardener is illegally here and has stopped, for the last two years, leaving a paper trail that might catch him. The check that was sent would add to such a trail. Or perhaps he is illiterate and was having someone else do his billing but that person no longer does. Either way, if he is still mowing the lawn, he deserves some recompense, cash, a good deed in return, or just drop by with a cake and a smile and thank you.
6
Re: Minimally working co-worker. The telling part of this narrative is the writer’s report of fielding complaints and responding that there is nothing to be done. It might make more sense to routinely document those complaints, pass the documentation up the line, and encourage the complainers to do the same. This, in effect, has the stance of “I am not complaining, but these other people seem to be, and you should know about it..”. Accepting the complaints without doing anything would seem to be having the opposite of the desired effect.
10
As for the ostensibly fake antiques, isn't it at least conceivable that the proud owners know this, and are simply engaging in an otherwise sad attempt to appear wealthier than they really are?
6
I am in the fine arts business. I am frequently stunned by the 'ignorance' of some of my customers with regard to the actual value of the 'art' they bring to me. It is surprisingly common for the general public to be unable to distinguish legitimate 'fine art' from tourist quality souvenirs. Based on my experience, it is likely that these folks have been 'taken' rather than that they knowingly bought junk and are passing it off as truly valuable items. If they can be made whole by their credit card company or the authorities in Singapore, my advise would be to make them aware of your concerns.
6
One tactic to talk about issues, from lazy coworkers to fake antiques, is to start by considering the questions one would ask them, considering their responses, and asking them the questions. In this way, you might get to a point where they understand the issue and do not take it as a direct confrontation and you can work toward a mutual solution.
PS, I just went through a class for work, and although I know and handle most issues well enough, this particular technique was new for me and thought could be very useful.
4
My father told me "Never pay more for a painting than you would if it were unsigned." If you're buying it purely for the aesthetic pleasure it gives you, then you can't be cheated paying for a forgery. LW3's friends seem to value their "antiques" for the bragging rights. They're valuable because they cost a lot. These poseurs seem made to be fleeced. That said, of course you should tell them.
10
@Eleanor Forman If they actually like them, then, as you have said, they were not fleeced - they paid what they believe they are worth - to them.
I think you are mixing up two different issues. The value of paint on paper or canvas may be based on its subjective appeal to a viewer, or it may have objective market value based on the importance of its maker. However, the 'legitimate' value of an antique, especially an object make from a precious material such as jade or vintage porcelain can be determined objectively. I cheep, modern souvenir is not 'worth' as much as a centuries old work by a skilled craftsperson, no matter how much the buyer 'likes' it. Junk does not become valuable simple because the person buying it cannot distinguish it as such. If the buyer were fully informed of the difference between a 'copy' and 'the real thing' they would quickly realize that paying 'real money' for 'fake trinkets' is the definition of 'being fleeced.'
1
I worked at an insurance company and was being trained for a new department by a person who had previously trained 2 other classes. She knew the material and explained it thoroughly. Her problem occurred with the younger women and some of the older. It really came down to personalities. And their not accepting her authority in the training. Not everyone has the correct approach when teaching. And like children when they have a substitute teacher some gave her a difficult time. She was taken off training and put back in her original position. Always felt bad for her. I do not miss working in offices where there are way too many who think they know better. Do your job accept it isn’t always going to be as you want it. Take care of yourself.
14
If you like your job do it. She is who she is. If her failure to do her work affects yours, don't cover for her and certainly don't do tasks she should be doing. Speak plainly and be nonjudgemental when explaining to the sleeping supervisors if they ever ask.
21
So she works 7 1/2 hours and has the temerity to take a lunch break? Wasn't such a break in the workday mandated post-the Industrial Revolution?
20
@Barbara She agreed to forgo lunch break for a shorter work-day. Her choice.
1
@Roger but that doesn't make it legal. It may depend on the state she's in, but as far as I know in CA, if you work more than 6 hours in a day the employer is required to give you a 30 minute meal break.
9
In regards to letter 1 ; how lucky you are to work in place where "the culture is relaxed" and increases with seniority ,which means you can eventually enjoy the same privileges.You are luckier still to enjoy a work place where in you admit ,you are all granted leniency in balancing your personal and work lives ! You have made it clear that the woman's supervisors don't care that she gets the job done with minimal effort ,so why do you ? Particularly as you have stated she is not "affecting your projects or work" !.... I'm curious to know why you begrudge this older colleague, a lunch break despite working 7.5 hrs during which anyone would actually need a break.She may have an understanding with the head of the Department you are not privy to.She may even have undisclosed health issues that require additional leniency in the work place that you don't have the right to know about....How is she taking the company for a ride, when they are aware of her work performance and have any number of options to address it ,but have clearly chosen not to act ?.... You suggest that if you report to H.R you would be perceived as "vindictive" ; even from this distance that is how you appear to me ! You ask should you leave it be ? My answer is a resounding yes , particularly as you state she has earned her seniority and the privilege of managing her schedule! The person with the" bad attitude" may just be you ! Be happy with your good fortune and allow her to enjoy hers.
45
Regarding the gardener who won't cash your checks: is there any chance he does not have a bank account, possibly isn't documented, and therefore can't cash them without fear?
Or possibly there's a psychological hang up here of some sort?
I'd pay him in cash and let him worry about reporting it or not.
35
@PNK Exactly. He needs to be paid in cash.
5
Or he may fear the check has expired and will bounce if cashed so late? I think you should ask him if he would prefer cash and pay him when you see him?
5
LW1- It takes time, documentation and real effort to properly "manage" someone out the door of a reasonably decent sized organization. The longer they've been on the job with no documented complaints the more effort would have to go into the removal. Since she undoubtedly also has age and gender protection I'm going to break it to you gently....FORGET ABOUT IT.
18
Sure turn them in and report back on the drama! In production offices it’s often a person who is assisting a top exec while they eat all day, stay on social media and gossip! I liked her a lot for the work she did and her caring qualities. Saying anything would do no good. Also children of the heads of the company did whatever they wanted and were rude. Radioactive people. No fly zone.
8
@Neil
Working in small family businesses has always been a nightmare for me. Used to proofread son's work and it seemed he didn't like me finding errors. But it was my job!
And offspring often aren't competent.
1
Regarding the worker who does not bill the client. Come to Vermont where you have to chase workers for a bill. They may be great tradesmen but they are lousy business people and, it drives me crazy. I always recommend our electrician not only because of his work but he bills in a timely manner with everything itemized. He is more expensive but I do not care.
5
This is almost quaint – mulling everyday ethics.
If no one who works with the 45th president bothers to turn him in for mean-tweeting and self-dealing and blatantly not fulfilling the duties of his office, and no one stops congressional leaders from (wink-wink) easing bank regulations to the point of public harm, and no one bats an eye when the elite pay bribes to boast that their kids are in ivy-league schools, why fret about the rule-bending of laid-back employees or far-off fake antique dealers or lawn service people averse to paperwork? As to ethics at the top, we can’t mull enough.
24
This has been going on since before the Pyramids were constructed. There was always the one guy who never pushed the heavier stones in place. At least back then, they were eventually sacrified to a Sun God or similar diety. That ain't happening in your case. Let it go. And don't waste your time looking for justice in a new workplace- he/she will be there too.
25
Regarding the gardener who won’t cash his check- have you considered compensating him in kind? Something that his kids or family might enjoy, rather than cash?
7
Re: the gardener
The obvious solution: Why not just pay him in cash? He’d be more likely to accept and spend it. Everyone wins. And if he stuffs it under his mattress, no harm done.
12
I once worked security for a federal agency.
one of the guards was,to put it mildly, a joke.
she came in whenever she wanted, left many
times early and was never reprimanded.
I complained a couple of times and was yesd
to death.nothing was done.I eventually found out that she was involved with a supervisor
who ran interference for her whenever
anyone squaked to our higher ups.
I was eventually fired.she was still standing
in the lobby as I left the building.
as long as your bosses are saying nothing,
you should keep quiet.or you may be gone.
35
I can tell you immediately what is going on with the gardener. He is probably a kind and lovely man as you say, but he has problems you don't know about. He hasn't billed you because he loses track of the invoices (or doesn't get around to writing invoices at all), and he can't cash your check because he has misplaced it or it is buried deep in months of unresolved paperwork.
He either has chronic problems with executive function, or possibly ADD, or possibly suffers depression or other mental problems, or has problems at home that are not immediately apparent to you.
Another possibility, he doesn't deal well with his paperwork because he dyslexic or illiterate and hides this, feeling shame.
18
@DW
I own a small business with no other employees. I often do not have invoices ready when I deliver the finished goods to my customers. I often fail to follow up with the invoices later. My customers WANT to pay me, but I sometimes make that difficult for them. I suspect this gardener is a lot like me.
1
For the person with the lax coworker: such people can ideed be annoying. But you're not this person's supervisor or team leader.
It's not your job to sign her timesheets.
And someone might ask why you're tracking this person's hours, lunch breaks, and social media posts.
You say this person gets the work done with minimal effort. That's the key to why your coworker is still there.
34
LW1: Keep in mind that HR’s raison d’être (reason for existence) is the protection of the company—and not employees. Focus on positive relationships with other employees, concentrate on your own work, ignore the problem child (as difficult as that may be). She’ll eventually reap what she’s sown.
LW2: The gardener—your fellow neighbor—as a “lovely” man, may have a difficult time accepting payment for chores that he considers not-so-random acts of kindness. That is, he may very well be willing to cut your grass gratis, simply because he is a gentleman. If that’s the case, I’d suggest you show him respect by gracefully accepting his generosity.
LW3: I’m curious: just how sure are you that the antique pieces are cheap reproductions? I ask especially because you admit to not being an expert in this area. If you are certain, then by all means follow the Professor’s advice. If not, you may be risking a friendship. Is it worth it?
6
re: lawn mower doesn't cash my check
If you are home when he mows your lawn, hand him CASH.
If your neighbor won't take the cash, suggest you then engage in a friendly, neighborly chat about how it feels awkward to you to be in debt to him. Share. Maybe suggest a barter: mowing for brownies, maybe. Who knows...maybe your neighbor gains tremendous personal satisfaction that somehow seems sullied to him if he accepts money. Chat and find out.
18
I hate complaining to higher-ups, but have had to when the situations impact me personally or my work performance. I have sometimes been accused as a nosy parker and being judgmental. I have had it backfire on me as well. However, I follow this one rule and I have been gainfully employed for more than 30 years: If it doesn't impact me in anyway, I stay quiet. If it does, I speak up. I never get involved in squabbles between other employees or management that do not concern me. Sometimes I stay quiet and grin and bare it until I have acquired enough work history at a place so they will know I work hard. Then, when an co-worker who continues to make life hard for me, I speak up. I am in a class of legally protected employee where I work (I am disabled but able to work and close to retirement age) and will warn you that you might not get the same results I have gotten. Sometimes I have lost a job but most times I have stayed working. Reporting bigotry is never easy, especially if you want to keep your medical problems secret. Since I am close to retirement, I don't care! I am severely hearing impaired and suffer from arthritis. I still work hard, and that drives some colleagues crazy. I work longer hours to make up for my "lack of efficiency" and I do not take unnecessary breaks and eat lunch at my desk. However, if you aren't facing bigotry and your "lazy" co-worker's impact on you is minimal, keep quiet and keep your nose to the grindstone.
9
You say you’re “fielding complaints about her.” Stop! If someone complains, remind them that they’re talking to the wrong person! If they have a complaint, they should take it up with her! What are you all? 12 year olds? Focus!
37
In what sense is either of these questions about ethics?
4
LW1: You are all colleagues. You all have a common mission. You all share a set of goals and norms. Why doesn't the letterwriter just go to the (seemingly) slacker colleague directly. Inquire what's going on, inquire whether she knows about her impact on morale and complaints, inquire why she sees norms and expectations differently than others, etc.
When you were a parent, did you want your kids to report every seeming problem or conflict to you, or did you try to teach them the more mature skill of talking to each other and seeing if they could work things out themselves?
--JS
Re LW 3: Ask your friends if they have had their items formally appraised for insurance purposes. If the stuff is fake, the appraiser can break the bad news.
30
I am always wary of anyone in an organization who has the time and energy to closely monitor the work habits of another co-worker for whom:
1. They do not manage
2. They do not work with
3. Their work performance does not really impact them
I’m one of those “weirdo-slackers” who keeps odd hours at work, goes on long breaks, and works from home a lot. I guess from the outside it might look like I am freeloading the system.
Not so. I have a bona fide medical issue that prevents me from spending too much time in an office. Do I advertise it to Nosey Parker’s like LW1. Not a chance. They always find a way to nitpick in someone else’s business. Because I have the flexibility to work in the environments and at the times when I am likely to be most productive I have the output of several employees - though anyone who is not my actual manager would be totally unaware of this. I most certainly post things on social media - in the middle of the day (the horror!) - when my manager is aware I am not working.
So my advice for LW1 is: focus on your own performance and do not assume what you think you know about another employee is the picture. If I were a senior and you came to me with something like this - about a person you do not manage who has not done something serious like harassment or verbal abuse - I would be very wary of your intentions and would suspect you might be a toxic presence in the corporate culture.
36
@Jamie
I'm on your side with this one. Nosey colleagues are like mosquitoes in the workplace, always buzzing and biting. People like LWI are the reason working onsite was a challenge for me (I am fully remote now and only come in for celebrations and big meetings).
(I was the senior copywriter for an in-house advertising agency in a high-tech company). The CEO had actually fired our outside agency and given our department their duties. This was an honor, but also a lot of pressure.
Since I had agency experience, our director gave me a free hand to research for creative ideas. But Nosey, a lower-level graphic designer, had the notion everybody should show only "official" company projects on their monitors.
People told me that Nosey passed back and forth in front of my cubicle stealing looks at my monitor,which often showed exotic sites, videos and designs as I researched.
I heard that she thought I was getting away with murder and not working at all but just surfing.
I laughed it off, but it gave me the creeps nonetheless. I was always very friendly to her; but if she knew what others thought of her, she would have been very hurt.
16
To the letter writer with the lazy co-worker:
If you're not this person's supervisor, or team leader, if you don't approve her time sheets, reporting her is likely to have HR asking you why you're tracking her hours, her lunch breaks, and her social media posts.
The fact that she gets her work done with minimal effort probably explains a lot of the leeway she's given.
14
Also regarding the worker who works at home one day a week, I caution against deciding she is a slacker based on her social media posts. Just as I'm leery of investigating people for Social Security fraud based on their facebook postings, same thing here - people lie on social media all the time. Or exaggerate, or embellish, or change details. Just because she says on Facebook that she went rock climbing on Wednesday afternoon - when she was supposed to be working - doesn't mean she really did. Some people are trying hard to impress certain other people with their social media profile and some of it is fake, or a carefully crafted persona.
She may be a total faker and slack-off, but setting the precedent of investigating people's facebook posts isn't a good route to go. And for another thing, plenty of people who are working IN the office on a given day are busy posting on facebook, too.
12
@DW
Consider also that you can't always tell on Facebook when someone posted something. Just like posts on Times articles, the time stamps often bear little or no relation to when you posted the thing.
People are really willing to jump to immediate conclusions without much thought, and once a rumor gets started, it could be horrible for that person if not true or twisted or embellished.
4
LW1 - try to seek solace in the saying "bad karma is its own reward." The co-worker will eventually face the music one way or the other. Do what you need to not let their behavior bother you.
LW3 - unless your friends are buying these items as an investment rather than for their own enjoyment, I would say nothing and just allow them to enjoy what they've purchased.
Hopefully they're sated and won't do this again.
1
I worked at a company where we had some assistants that had been there many years and some that were newly hired. One of the newly hired, young employees complained to me that an elderly assistant refused to come to work in the rain. I explained that I would not be able to discuss another employees' situation, but thanked him for the information. He found out on his own that the elderly assistant had cancer and felt absolutely terrible.
25
1. A key component of a positive work environment is “fairness”, and the sense that some employees play by a different set of rules can erode morale. So what to do?
Do your job. If your colleague is having a direct impact upon your work, you have an obligation to discuss your concerns with your manager. If not, be discreet and cautious in airing your concerns. There may be more to the story (maybe she is taking a reduced salary? Etc). You don’t have the complete picture, and to be blunt, you aren’t entitled to it. Remember, ultimately, management has the right to make bad decisions. By bad, I don’t mean illegal or immoral decisions, but bad from a business perspective—including office morale.
11
Re antiques & art, why does the letter writer assume that the buyers literally believe these are "antiques"? Most western furniture that is produced in pre-modern styles (e.g., midwestern homes feature colonial or pioneer styles and other American homes feature pre-modern Euro-styles.) No one believes these items were literally produced in 1845! It's the same in Asia. Many people enjoy the styles from particular dynasties or regions, without believing their pieces actually come from that time and place. Still, the furniture can be of valuable quality and style. That the neighbours procured the items from Singapore shows they (at least) took care to shop in Asia. Many of my Asian friends have this "antique" style furniture, which they enjoy and for which they pay quite a lot or at least similar to what people pay for "antique" Western styles.
Re job slacker, the Expert reply mostly says 'it's not your place to judge a co-worker.' However, in most co.s, the concept of "team" is prominent, and every team member is expected to help cultivate the team's productivity. Standing by silently can create "guilt by association." But what to do? First talk with the slacker about how the team can handle customer complaints, then talk w/ the supervisor. But yes, there's a risk of "shoot the messenger." And maybe this "senior" employee has earned her privileges thru work (or connections) unknown to the writer. The writer also has an odd fixation on 8hrs/day.
2
In the first scenario, the response depends on whether it is a private, for-profit company vs. public sector or non-profit. In a public-sector job, the lazy employee and negligent mangers are squandering the writer's tax dollars and the public trust. In that instance and also a non-profit with a socially beneficial mission, I would be much more inclined to speak up. On the other hand, if it's a for-profit enterprise, the burden is really on the employer to manage the situation.
In the third situation, I would mention to the friends the possibility of fraud and suggest that they might want to have an independent appraisal to reassure themselves and for insurance purposes. Then it is up to them whether to proceed. I'd ask the writer, what will be his or her response when the friends ask, "We found out most of our acquisitions are frauds. You know something about Asian artifacts, why didn't you say anything??"
1
In my experience the lazy and incompetent get promoted up at least one level.
Just to get rid of them.
I was never promoted but got very good raises, I also worked every possible day, especially triple time Sundays. While that lasted. No Union...
Often worked double shifts and many times 13 of 14 days in a row.
But in 2008 I was forced out with severance, with no retirement benefits age 58. 30 years seniority.
Now 68, I am really glad I worked those hours getting almost top Social Security benefits and thank goodness for Medicare.
ymmv
7
Working from home is not always done from 9-5. And if her job can be done online and she is getting the work done, she may be working from home or the lunch counter or the morning coffee shop. I'd say MYOB and do YOUR job.
12
Regarding the load of fake antiques... I wouldn't say anything only because I was in the exact same situation and tried as nicely as I could to tell a friend that what they they had was incorrectly identified - and I work in the field, so I do know what I am talking about. I began to explain why what they had was wrongly identified but my insight was not welcome - in fact we stopped being friends, or rather he stopped being my friend...
9
@Jonathan
I work in the field of fine art. I see plenty of 'junk.' I try to be as delicate as I can about 'educating' my customers. In your case you were attempting to help a friend who perhaps had a lot of ego tied up in his misinformed opinion. I'd have done the same thing you did. Your former friend's reaction is on him.
1
If you want to continue to work there in peace don't get involved. Her effect on the work atmosphere and the productivity of others seems negative, but it's likely her superiors are aware of it. If you do seek and find employment elsewhere then it might be worthwhile to write in your letter of resignation without naming names that a work culture with little accountability or expectations of the employees made working there a particular challenge for you.
7
She has been there for many years and gets the job done, you say. Frankly, unless your job is to oversee her performance, leave it alone and get on with your work. It's really none of your business HOW she gets the job done as long as she's getting it done. I work in sales and have hit my quota and better every month for years and a lot of people would say I was more casual in my work style than they are. Actually, when I am physically out of the office I operate in a very specific way to find and retain clients that looks to some like I am on permanent vacation. But my bosses know that I deliver. She may be the same way. Her value may be opaque from where you're standing, but I'd be very careful or you might be the one who ends up looking for work.
29
@Jeffrey Gillespie This kind of worker poisons the work environment and should be removed. Yes, this includes you. Unless you are working on a commission-only basis, of course.
1
Re Slacker Employee -
All advice already posted is valid. It however leaves a huge problem that goes beyond the single employee's contribution unsolved. Presumably the author and many, if not most, of his/her coworkers want the company unit to succeed and to thrive in their careers and grow in their own capability and contribution. A "bad apple" as described poisons the barrel as it becomes the model (rightly or wrongly) of what it takes to keep drawing a paycheck. This is particularly corrosive for new employees who quickly learn the expectations of the organization. New employees who are given high expectations typically meet them and carry the same productivity and attitude for many, many years, perhaps a lifetime. And they and the organization thrive. So my advice is to put up with the bad apple if you must, but insulate yourself from the bad apple and with the help of other 'normal' coworkers work every day to have and model high expectations and proficiency. That climate will reap you, your co-workers, and particularly impressionable new employees benefits professionally and personally for years to come.
5
I have a husband who reminds me of the story of the man who will not accept payment for mowing the lawn. Although I love to do kind things for people, I would not be this man as I might only help the woman once or twice with her lawn. However, my husband is, so I have a glimmer of understanding of the man we are talking about. Perhaps for him as well, there is payment abundant forjust doing a kind deed. Renumeration in the form of money can feel "dirty" or taint the feeling behind it, and for people like this, it is not why they do the good deed.
If I werethe woman in this situation, not only would I express my appreciation and gratitude, but I would take over something in "exchange". Perhaps a fresh baked pie, perhaps it might be tickets to a play, or concert. Perhaps I would send a gift certificate to a restaurant, or better yet, I would invite he and his family over for a dinner. I would try be become a friend, as opposed to an "employer".
26
@anne You might try a personal conversation in a relaxed setting as recommended.. If that isn't do-able for any reason, or doesn't get results (he accepts payment), here's my thought:
Given that two years' worth of service have accrued, ask the dear man if he would allow you to make a contribution to his favorite charity/cause. Then DO it ( as long as it does not offend your morals and ethics).(
4
@Aspasia Is it ethical to offer to give it to someone else's cause, then not do it because it offends your sense of right?
LW1: I have been in several management positions where a senior employee in my part of the organization was not pulling there weight. I was well aware of the situation and made attempts to turn these emoyees around through defined remedial action plans. In larger companies, these processes are well defined and HR is heavily involved. However, companies are always leery of age-discrimination cases and HR tends to accept even modest improvement as reason to retain the employee. When it became difficult to correct the malingering behavior, I used the salary budgeting process to benefit hard working employees while poor performers fell behind.
The bottom line is that your managers were probably aware of the poor performance and addressed it in ways you didn't see. Therefore, you are not likely to see much response from a complaint to HR and will likely put your supervisor in a bad light.
LW2: Call his wife and ask why your gardener is so willing to work for free and won't cash you check. I'm fairly certain she will.
18
@Ron Is it ethical to go to the spouse of the adult with whom you have the work-relationship?
2
I have a friend who worked in a position 36 years and when I first knew her I was amazed by how valuable she was and how much she did for the business. Twenty years later and I couldn't believe how much she got away with. For many reasons, I was surprised she hadn't been fired. She knew the position so well and even created so many aspects within her position that I wondered who they would get to replace her once she retired. She did retire -- and they did not replace her to this day. The position remains unfilled because of budget cuts. She now works p/t in a different department of the same business. The only difference is no monkey business. She comes to work and does her job. The message: people do what they can get away with.
20
static/noise mixed in with the message - who knew?
Re: Do nothing coworker
Please leave that lady alone. She has no effect on your work by your own admission. Let her live her best life. You are blessed to work under management that is lenient with all of you. Please stop nitpicking at the ways they have granted her leniency.
38
@L. Meditate: May she be happy, May she be blessed, May she be healthy. Don't give her space in your head. MYOB. This isn't a perfect world.
4
It won't help to report the slacker to HR , regarding the first letter. Almost always, HR is there to protect the company from employees and lawsuits.
When I was managing research projects at a medical school my boss told me that he didn't care what days or hours I worked--he just wanted the work done. I was usually in my office from 11 to 5, some days worked at home from 6 to noon and often worked Sundays.
My boss gradually handed over so much work to me that he no longer knew what was going on on his own projects. He liked to write research papers so that's all he did.
At first I enjoyed the autonomy but eventually became concerned that he was making $200,000 off of federal grants without participating as the law requires. Twice patients almost died from our study drugs; he didn't want to know the details and told me to "handle it". Another time a male nurse was looking at child pornography on a work computer; the boss didn't want to deal with anything "icky" so I called the police.
When I spoke up no one cared. My boss claimed that my attempts to get him to participate were keeping him from his work, so his HR and boss threatened to fire me without wanting to know what I knew. His boss wanted me muffled because the department would lose $20 million per year in grant money if my boss got canned. Eventually I left, exhausted.
These situations can be convoluted and difficult to decipher from one vantage point.
37
@Davina Wolf Ghastly story but not unusual. It might have been interesting before leaving to send your Memeber of Congress (not the you-know-who's) a detailed report of where his/her constituents' tax money is going -- in grants to a company that nearly kills patients then lies about it and bad-mouths you.
And in your letter of resignation, remind the top banana politely that it is illegal (I think) torealiate against a whistle-blower by sabotaging future job applications which require info from previous employers.
1
1 -- Stay out of it. In the workplace, there are people who coast and people who complain about coworkers. Be neither.
2 -- That's a head-scratcher.
3 -- Stay out of it.
22
@Stevem. My thoughts exactly. Well said.
1
"Before you make a formal complaint, think hard about what it’s likely to achieve." Is this meant to be taken as standard ethical principle? Or, simply, as advice for this LW, for this particular case?
4
@Roger seemed like a non answer to me!
It is a shame there are managers and human resources representatives who are lazy and refuse to do their jobs. Managers are supposed to MANAGE their staff, and it sounds like they're not doing their jobs. My only suggestion is to accept what is, or try to find another job. Since management refuses to do their jobs properly your only choice is to accept the situation and live with it or leave the company. Best of luck to you.
Then again, the slacker employee might retire. It could happen.
3
@Larry best comment yet. If management and HR knows about the situation and haven't done anything for years, it is unlikely that putting in a complaint will help the situation. I agree that the writer should focus on his or her own work and say nothing unless the situation touches him or her personally or undermines his or her own performance. And I agree that maybe another job is in order.
2
My husband owns a business with about 70 employees and I have heard him express dismay about employees who will come straight to him with complaints about other employees instead of first going to the person that heads the team. Usually the team manager is on top of things and knows more about the situation than the employee. If the manager can’t handle the problem, they will come to the boss (they don’t have a HR department).
If complaints are coming from clients or customers, then they should be documented and the person’s supervisor should be informed.
11
The employee not carrying her load is very likely a relative or friend of a senior executive, or may have been hired as a favor to someone the company does business with. This is more common than not. My employer has a 'friends and family' plan. It is fraught with cronyism with contractors they partner with, and family members are encouraged to work in tandem as long as one is not supervising the other. The senior executives are heavily involved in padding their payroll with employees who will feed the culture that, in turn, feeds their egos. It creates a toxic work environment for any employee not part of this dynamic. Your complaint may cause you to lose your job. Stay clear of HR for they do not have the employees interests at heart.
28
Re: Chinese "Antiques". Every large city including NY is full of stores full to the gills with allegedly authentic Chinese works of art and antiques virtually none of which are not fake. These crude reproductions are regularly purchased by families thinking they have a Ming or Chien Lung vase bronze or jade for rather high prices which are nonetheless a fraction of what they would be if they were authentic (to the practiced eye they don't look the least bit authentic). These are happily sold by dealers who are "sure" they are "good" and then happily displayed in the same spirit. It would be as if there were stores full of "Michaelangelo" statues and Leonardo or Monet paintings at prices like $2000 bought and displayed in garish living rooms with great pride. That is how it is and it is for the most part a perfectly legitimate business. It is as true in China where the purchase of these "masterpieces" are usually a high point of the tourism experience. It is an enormous industry and an individual has about as much chance of stopping it as they would of doing away with the automobile industry.
7
@Bill H It's too bad the couple didn't research before buying. I think whether or not I would tell them would depend on how close we were.
Re LW 1: Always remember - HR does not exist to help employees - HR exists to protect the company. This comes from my personal experience and from advice from a friend who worked in HR for many years. HR is not going to be your friend in this situation; it's not fair, just as the situation you describe isn't fair, but that's reality. HR knows what's going on, and for whatever reason, they're doing nothing. As others have said, beware.
88
@Kate Drinian
I agree that HR is there to protect the employer (= avoid expensive lawsuits), and not the employees -- which includes individuals in management roles. I'm a middle manager in a non-profit and I have virtually no company tools to manage employees. I'm stuck with a slacker that I can't do much about. "Fired for cause" is very difficult to prove, esp in a position that involves unique projects and professional judgement, rather than things we can count. I've been advised to just do "damage control". So frustrating -- I've spent so many extra hours trying to figure out ways to handle this and it's a rabbit hole.
4
@Becca
What confuses me is why it's so difficult to let someone go "for cause" - in some situations, for OBVIOUS cause - but letting someone go "just because" is easy as pie. We all know we can be let go at any time, for no reason whatsoever (because we work "at will," in most states), so why do we cower and shudder at the prospect of being made redundant at any moment - yet we can't be fired for old-fashioned poor performance?
3
@DW Yes, in "at will" states anyone can be fired for no reason. But the person fired can file complaints with the EEOC (age discrimination, gender discrimination, etc) and if that fails they can sue the company. There are many lawyers who will take these cases on a contingency basis so the fired employee is not out any money if they don't win the suit. Companies dread these situations and will put up with problem situations for quite a while to avoid them - especially if the person is getting their work done.
3
LW#1: I respectfully disagree with Mr. Appiah's advice. He's basically telling you there is not point in doing anything, and that you should get over--which is exactly the attitude of your company that has allowed this behavior to go unchecked.
I've worked for organizations where this behavior is tolerated, and for organizations where it absolutely is not tolerated. Where this behavior is tolerated, the leadership is collectively weak, and as individuals they feel it is too difficult for them to resolve on their own. They underplay the impacts on morale it has on good employees. They also neglect to understand how tolerated bad behavior gets more bad behavior.
While in the end it may be futile for a single individual to say something, once multiple people complain then the issue becomes harder to ignore. It is not difficult to fix the situation; you just need someone in leadership with the motivation to do so. Once enough people complain, then that motivation may materialize.
Don't approach it from a "it's not fair!" perspective--that sounds whiny. Rather, explain the complaints you deal with, how it imposes on others, and the impact on morale.
Moreover, I'd point out this is yet another example of how the privileged take care of their own. The leadership likely would have no problem laying off lower-level people who weren't needed, but are willing to let slide a more highly paid person that they can relate to.
8
Does this woman work for the government? I have a hard time understanding how this employee would last years through likely several reorganizations, reductions and changes in management. If she does not do anything, a private firm would eliminate her position. If she performs poorly, she gets the boot by not making the annual 5% cut. She also does not seem to have extraordinary people skills. Avoidance is not a managing up skill.
Since she likely does work for the government, the conclusion is do nothing. Great.
1
@Michael Blazin
What she does may not be obvious to her co-workers and management may be reluctant to share what she does with co-workers.
9
@Michael Blazin I've seen private sector and nonprofit offices like this, particularly in family-owned businesses.
25
@Michael Blazin
Stop your nonsense about Government employees. I worked most of my life in the private sector. Since starting my Federal job 14 years ago, I've had the pleasure of working with some of the smartest, most dedicated people ever. Your impression of Government work is dead wrong.
95
Regarding L1, it's possible the reason that the employee has all of those extra perks now is that she doesn't want to be there anymore, but is one of the only people who can do her job now. The company may have given her a lot of added incentive to stay on (a day at home! less time at work!), but the reality is that she doesn't really want to be there. Often companies don't prepare for that "hit by a bus" scenario, and can't afford to lose mission critical employees.
I've seen that a lot. Instead of going "it's not fair" to junior partners, why not instead use it as incentive to earn that too?
Another possibility is that your colleague is ill, which could be affecting her work performance and would justify your supervisors giving her so much slack. She may not realize the impact she's having on you, especially if it's new behaviour (it sounds like it is). Why not just show some compassion in that case?
Either way, complaining would look bad for you. Since it doesn't affect your work, why not just look at it as something to aspire to?
16
the word of a client who is adversely affected by the the teams shortcomings carry's more weight than anything else.
the client may complain but you don't need to shoulder the burden by yourself.
there are ways to point out that there is a weak link, ie.
a lazy co-worker who is a hindrance to your own productivity.
no one can coast forever and client satisfaction is always the bottom line $. at that point HR and supervisor's cannot look the other way.
19
@Larry Chan - great comment but...
the word of a client who is adversely affected by the the team's shortcomings carries more weight than anything else
i.e.
at that point HR and supervisors cannot look the other way
2
@Larry Chan
In a non-profit, the bottom line is not always money. There can be seriously entrenched dysfunctional cultures and employees of mysterious untouchable status, or whose behavior at work or the product of their work is inexplicable, and no client complaint is ever going to matter.
Good advice in general, but isn't going to apply in every situation.
2
Does cronyism or nepotism play a role here? Because that could make a difference.
11
LW#1: I have lived through many of these situations, and it is a 99% probability that HR already knows about this. This person is protected for some reason. Beware.
66
I've had coworkers who used their position and seniority to get a so called free lunch on the company. In my experience the HR department is a mine field, so how about a fresh approach by working with IT Department? Your company is likely to have a firewall. A firewall is basically this technology controls what websites you can and can't access from your work computer and tracks what sites you visit. I suspect that your co-workers spends a great deal of time at her desk immersed in social media (probably Facebook based on her age) and e-commerce. Make friends with an IT person and give them an idea or two about improving productivy via blocking non-work sites with the firewall - let them take credit for it. Starting with the firewall helps in a conflict adverse environment because nobody has to have a face to face conversation.
I also suspect that your co-worker has the inside scoop on clients, the company personel and processes. Try to learn from your co-worker and let your supervisor get a glimpse of your ownership of what was previously top secret information. I doubt that anyone in management sees your coworker as indispensable, rather it's the information that she's carefully built and stored away.
Finally, management might know all about this co-worker but be afraid of age discrimination litigation. In a casual workplace lazy can be hard to differenicat from laid back, at least on paper. Be the best team member that you can be and hope that your coworker retires soon.
5
@SWT
This post wins the "Truly Terrible Advice" award. Following it would make the LW exponentially more potentially harmful to the company than the alleged malingerer.
12
@SWT - voice of reality and experience
3
@SUNDEVILPEG What? Why? It's a bit backhanded, but unless the slacker's job is specifically to promote the company on social media, how in the world is it harmful?
With regard to the do-nothing co-worker, my advise is to do nothing. It’s none of your business and you may not have all the facts. The writer states that the only effect on him/her is having to field the comments of others. She/he doesn’t have to field those comments. They should simply refer the complainant to the workers supervisor and say nothing else. Don’t participate in any gossip. If she was having to pick-up the neglected workload I would respond differently.
47
Yes. “Doing a job with minimal effort” sounds like the natural reward for brains and experience to me, and even KA noted the resentment in the letter. A description of any real consequences of this “slacking” or even any duplicity on the part of the co-worker are conspicuously missing. Even the sheer length of the letter, which ironically says so little, screams sour grapes.
2
@Jim Fisher another good reply. Say nothing unless it affects you personally or impacts on your productivity.
2
Re the unpaid gardener, I’d like to amend my previous recommendation to “give him cash already.”
There are many people who simply like helping their neighbors. Sometimes they’re poor and even though they could use the money, they like the sense that they’re doing it for free, and take pride in the job well done and being part of the neighborhood.
Maybe this guy doesn’t have memory problems, isn’t disorganized, and isn’t afraid of the IRS, but simply likes to help out the nice lady down the block.
I’d suggest doing something for him. Bake him a cake. Buy him a tie. Take him to lunch.
23
@Angelus Ravenscroft Awww, this is a cute answer -- and you may be right!
1
For LW1: Adopt the attitude that your senior colleagues' treatment is entirely merited in your company's culture. You say that you are constantly fielding complaints. Adopt the attitude that handling these complaints is part of your job. And then, with those attitudes firmly in mind, humbly ask a mutual supervisor how you should respond to the complaints.
14
@Steve Best answer to LW1 here.
1
To #1:Every single work place in the world has someone who is not pulling their weight. It is something you need to accept as a part of life and move on. Others have said it well but focus on yourself and what you can do versus that of your peer.
32
If your colleague's do-nothing places a heavier load on your work, talk to her/him/it first. If this does not help, go to the higher up.
Reporting lazy workers to lazy bosses is a waste of time. Do your job and ignore it or hop on the lazy train. I have learned that rules are seldom followed or enforced. Our Society is and always has been rife with hypocrisy.
11
Bad advice on all counts:
1- Leave the job. You aren't happy there, nothing you do will make it better, you're actually being taken advantage of by the freeloader (which is why you're resentful), and conditions are only going to get worse. Use this as a guide for your next job, so that you will not repeat the same conditions. If you say anything now, it will be held against you for your entire career there and may follow you to the next job. Just leave.
2- No you should not get lawncare help elsewhere if he does an excellent job. Next time, give the service provider a money order or bank check. Then it's not your problem anymore. Or, put cash in an envelope and deliver it personally, to his home or when he does the job. Pay him when you think it's appropriate whether the provider invoices you or not. Do you really need an invoice just for grass cutting? Is this a tax deduction?
3- No, you should not say anything. It's not your business. These people did not ask your advice or opinion, and they will not thank you for it unless they are exceptionally close to you. Why ruin it for them, which is what your voiced opinion will do? Let them be happy with their purchases, and leave it alone. The columnist asserts that credit card disputes can be litigated more easily in Singapore, but that is just not the case internationally no matter where or how you file a complaint. And suppose you're wrong? Then you've lost a friend and possibly gained an enemy.
27
@laguna greg
The only way legal action would be possible in Singapore would be a situation where paper documents attesting to false antique provenance were provided as part of the sale. Even if the purchasers were completely unaware that their purchases are fakes, they would otherwise have no legal recourse, so if they’ve spent their retirement savings on these items, they are out of luck. They may never find out, or their kids may learn the truth when they inherit these items.
(I once watched an informal expert assessment of a collection of African art brought back from difficult countries where it was still possible to find the occasional authentic piece. The owner, who had spent a year or two in West Africa, was actually glad to learn that about 10% of his purchases were genuine. The others were very good copies of items that were selling in Europe for tens of thousands. That was a realistic approach to collecting.)
Ha, this is nothing!
Back in the 90s, when I worked at a large, bureaucratic bank, we had a fellow who came to work in cargo pants and boat shoes without socks. He had a TV set in his cubicle, and would watch all day. In the afternoon, he went to conference center, collected all the empty soda cans, and hauled them home on his LIRR commute in a big plastic trash bag.
Why were such characters tolerated? As a manager, the larger your department, and the more people you supervised, the more important you were.
They also performed one important function, which was widely known as 'wolf-meat'. When senior management demand cost cuts, these employees could be 'thrown to the wolves'. Naturally, this would not have any impact on the department's productivity, and the managers would be congratulated and rewarded on how successfully they managed to absorb the cuts.
13
@Jonathan
When I was very young I worked at a suburban bank and reported to a do-nothing guy who got drunk on his lunch hour and came back to his desk and slept for the afternoon. I used to wonder how he got away with it.
Now four decades later, I figure he was a relative of or connected to one of the powers that be in the bank structure and had the equivalent of a "no show" job he drank his way through. Good thing I never said a word to anyone about this.
The ways of the world are mysterious.
1
@Jonathan Two excellent points.
Yeah, try holding your superiors over the fire. Not good advice. This will only lead to bringing attention to yourself resulting in everyone considering that it is you who are the problem.
Sometimes pouring glitter into their file cabinet drawer and spraying aerosol adhesive on the ear side of their phone before you quit is the only answer.
5
Just a thought: what if the antique owners are the ones pretending? How does the LW really know what was paid for the furniture and art?
Something is wrong with the picture concerning the gardener. I agree with Appiah since forcing money on him (by walking to his house and handing him cash) may be awkward for both parties. In good faith, the payment has been made. It's up to the gardener. Although I wouldn't wait two years. I'd insist on an annual bill and go from there.
That colleague needs to be reported for everyone's sake and ethically. I would consider doing so annonymously though.
4
@Flo
and I would caution against believing that anonymous reporting is ever actually anonymous.
3
why is the do-nothing co-worker illustrated as caucasian and the other co-worker illustrated with a darker complexion ?
3
@SSS Why shouldn't it be? Or perhaps it would be better if they were both of the same race?
1
Because whichever way you do it someone will be offended......
9
Because they would never have an illustration that had only Caucasians in it and if there are only two people they would never make the non-caucasian the bad guy. But I'm sure you already figured that out
4
@LW1: Your gardener has two children? Have you considered setting up 429s for them?
4
@ms that seems a bit presumptuous and invasive. Cash is the answer.
3
Re: LW1- is this a civil service/union environment? In which case, there may be reasons management cannot discipline or fire the senior employee. This unfortunately, is rampant in my organization in certain sections. The senior staff force the junior staff to make up the work they neglect to do. In the worst case scenarios, employees who were threatening other employees were simply sent home, in one case for 3 years until they either retired, quit, or in one case was arrested outside of work and went to prison.
8
If the objects, real or fake, give the owners pleasure, then they are priceless. If they bought them for investment purposes, then only an authentic antiques appraiser would be able to distinguish their value. Personally, I would help them enjoy their acquisitions and leave it at that.
29
@San D I might suggest an appraisal and explain if they do it soon they can secure their purchase or get a refund.
1
the letter writer has a legitimate gripe. i've dealt with colleagues like this by first mentioning the problem in person as politely as possible, then following up with an email to record what the problem is, and then taking it to our mutual supervisor. i'm happy to say i've gotten results, but i know that deosn't always happen.
however, the reason why this is a problem is that the co-worker is taking advantage of colleagues, i.e. trashing solidarity. this:
"First, she is taking the company for a ride, getting paid for hours not worked."
is not the first reason, or even the last, to be upset. the company is set up to profit off your work, off everybody's work, as every company is. this needs to be framed as an insult (strong word, but i think appropriate) to your entire team's work load.
3
@petey
we know nothing of the total compensation for the various employees within this team. it is not unusual for an employee to forego cash compensation for additional considerations, like flexibility in how they perform the work assignment. what one employee describes as "taking advantage" may very well be an explicit employee agreement.
9
I've been in situation 1 a number of times, and at the moment, I am the shirker. I have worked hard for my organization for years, and resented the few employees who were difficult to work with so no one asked them to do anything and who shirked their duties. In my experience, firing someone is an incredibly difficult thing to do in my particular facility. They would rather keep someone on until they retire (from doing quite what?) But my father died several weeks ago, and while I have returned to work, I am getting very little accomplished. Which is probably good, because what I have done is a little sketchy. I know that won't last forever, but I am also aware that I am the recipient of compassion that I was reluctant to extend to others.
63
I have seen many scenarios like the example given in the "do-nothing co-worker". Every time someone went to the boss to complain or alert his/her observations, it usually ended on a negative tone for the individual making a complaint. While most people agreed with the complainant, no one wanted to work with that individual because the assumption was this person could not be trusted. The assumption and mindset was "never mind what she or he is or isn't doing, just mind your own work duties and responsibilities."
Every similar situation I've seen was never a shock or surprise to management. For whatever reason(s), the slacker was allowed to do nothing yet get paid every two weeks. To know what the reasons or justifications were for this allowance was way above my pay grade.
In the end, I always found more satisfaction in retaining my job than worrying about someone not doing theirs.
99
The first questioner should buy copies of Radical Candor by Kim Scott for herself and her managers. One of the first stories in this book is directly relevant. When she was early in her career, she had an employee who was causing similar problems to the shirker in the question. As is the case for your bosses, she (as the boss) was reluctant to do anything about it until it got so bad that the employee had to be fired. She discusses how she messed up the whole situation and made matters much worse for everyone involved by not taking care of this sooner.
5
LW1 -Sadly, some people just seem to have it made. They coast through much of life and get raises and praise. It's tough for the other workers, but it is what it is. Tampering with this, as Dr. Appiah notes, can really have a lot of bad consequences. Many moons ago I turned someone in to the I.G., and that person's boss got in trouble for not catching or preventing the problem. The boss, who was incompetent, outranked me, and I wound up changing jobs within a year. The boss isn't always right, but the boss is always the boss, etc.
Jade - LW3 recommend to your friends that they have these imports appraised for insurance purposes as soon as possible. Make it urgent. It is not expensive, and the weight of deciding what is real will fall on the shoulders of the appraiser.
76
@John
"The boss isn't always right, but the boss is always the boss"
That was a great line in the movie, "Bridge of Spies" and continues to be true assessment in the work place.
Very sorry to hear that you had to change jobs as a result of the fallout from initially reporting a slacker to the I.G. You got the short end on so many levels.
5
@John You don't know the family tree. Maybe this person has been promoted to a position where she will do the least harm to the company. They used to call these, "lateral promotions", and incompetent/lazy low-level managers would be staffed with competent employees who could work around an inept boss. Not all nepotism is blood-ties. A company exec might take on an employee as a favor to a preferred client or a very close friend.
If you live long enough, she may begin to believe her own over-esteem and seek employment elsewhere so her true value can be realized. I got lucky, and an employee who had been inflicted upon my department suddenly realized we were not advancing her growth. I turned mother's picture to the wall and wrote the employee's letter of reference.
1. Maybe time to look for a new job.
2. Jesus, give the guy cash already.
3. Sure, go for it, and write back to tell us how offended they were, and ask if it’s ethical to cut them off.
69
@Angelus Ravenscroft
2. Or a money order. Either way your own account balancing doesn't get messed up.
1
"Although I am not an antique dealer or art appraiser, I know that the jade horse was a cheap Chinese marble reproduction..."
If you're not a dealer or appraiser, how did you arrive at this professional conclusion?
95
@Ortrud Radbod You don't have to be a dealer or professional appraiser here. There are serious collectors out there that are very knowledgeable about their hobby/obsession and know cheap reproduction when they see it. This is not to say that they are experts - for even experts can be fooled by clever forgeries.
7
@Ortrud Radbod
Maybe it said, "Made In China" on the bottom? Or it had seam marks from when it would injection molded?
The gardener may not wish to create a paper trail for income over and above his retirement benefits. For him, cash may be king.
120
@Susan ST
What are the ethics of knowingly aiding tax evasion?
4
@Susan ST
Considering this is an ethicist's column: Wouldn't contributing to that be unethical?
5
@Flo
I think the letter writer suspects this is the case; strange that the Ethicist didn't include this in the possibilities, as this was the first thing that occurred to me.
7
Organizational cultures come from the top, and if you're not part of the company leadership, it is usually a mistake to complain about culture: you must adjust to the company, not the other way around. If you can't do that, then you should leave.
Many companies allow all sorts of freedoms - what seems like abuse to newer employees - to long time employees who have helped get the company to its current position. Some company cultures are simply indifferent to the abuse, no matter who does it.
For example, at my current company, a declining 50-year-old tech company, numerous employees have full time jobs running their own small businesses. When they're "working at home", they're really selling houses, or negotiating import/export arrangements, or creating objects for their on-line stores. This behavior is a key cause of the company's long decline, but it's known and accepted by company execs, and has been for years.
Meanwhile, I'm doing very interesting and challenging work, and for the moment the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. When the company fails, I will have gained some great experience and knowledge, I will have taken that experience somewhere else by then, and I'll have a clear conscience.
Stop participating in the discussion. Switch from "It's not fair," to "I am going to concentrate on getting my work done."
Company culture comes from the top; if you can't stand it, you should leave.
114
"Organizational cultures come from the top, and if you're not part of the company leadership, it is usually a mistake to complain about culture: you must adjust to the company, not the other way around."
True, but in many, most, or possibly all cases when such "cultures" conflict with actual policies (especially to the extent that these policies and their jnfringement negatively affect other workers), there is ethical transgression. Although it's probably not the junior employee's job to be a self-appointed ethical policeman, if the policies are being reduced to a false facade or lip service concealing unfair or abusive behavior (and if there is a "culture" of such hypocritical coverup), then exposing that situation it is likely the ethical thing to do. It would depend on who is being hurt and in what ways. I think I agree with Prof. Appiah on this, his analysis, and what I consider great advice.
4
Regarding LW3, has it occurred to the letter writer that the couple may in fact know that what they are presenting as antiques are cheap or of dubious authenticity merely as a means of making you think they are sharper, richer, or whatever than you would otherwise? Most of the Louis Vuitton bags and suitcases you see in the mall or airport as as fake as they come, and the owners darn well know it - they just want to make the world thing they're something they're not. And none of them want to be told about it.
Bottom line - unless asked or they make a statement expressing some doubt on a piece or two, it's probably best to say nothing.
52
@George S
George S may be right that they know they are buying fakes but hope their friends think they are genuine.
However I think it is just as likely they do not know. If so, will they really be happy to learn of their blunder? I am not so sure.
We have all heard the expression "ignorance is bliss". Now it is not always true. If you have a life-threatening illness and keep your head in the sand, you won't end up with bliss.
But in the case of these fake antiques, etc., maybe ignorance will be bliss for them. The minute they are told the truth, not only may they embrace denial but they may also be resentful of you for having said anything to them.
Plenty of people do not want to be corrected.
27
@George S
Wish I'd read your comment before I wrote mine. I thought the same thing.
1
Just suggest, in an innocuos way that they have them professiobally appraised. For example tell them you read in the NY Times that it's a good idea.
*It is a good idea to have antiques appraised.*
Isn't life easy sometimes? (On very rare occasions.)
10
One thing to keep in mind is that management often has a broader view than individual employees.
As a manager, you have to choose whether or not to constantly look over employees' shoulders to enforce ministerial or bureaucratic requirements like working certain work hours or making sure to put cover sheets on your TPS reports. Many managers purposefully choose to step back from that kind of thing and empower their employees to choose how to conduct their day and take as the manager's responsibility ensuring that the aggregate organization is functioning in an acceptable way. For most all employees and teams, this kind of freedom actually increases productivity, even if on the micro level it may seem otherwise.
On the other hand, if I had an employee that was constantly monitoring and griping about another worker's time management, I think I would probably have a discussion with the griper about focusing on her own work and to letting me make the decisions on how to lead the rest of the team.
81
@JSD Exactly. The slackers scattered across my almost-40-year-long career used to drive me crazy, to the point that I once kept a spreadsheet that noted the a.m. arrival time, p.m. departure time, and every step-out during the day of several coworkers. The sense of unfairness overwhelmed me, and I was chronically stumped by how no one, especially their managers, seemed to care.
Then about 15 years ago someone made a comment (I no longer recall the exact wording) about what a punitive, angry micromanager I was (and I wasn't even a manager--just a low-level support person). After some soul-searching, I decided to stop caring about others and focus that attention on myself and it was like the clouds parted and the sun came out.
Do slackers still bother me? Yup. But I let the thought pass from one side of my brain to the other and disappear into the horizon. Their poor work habits are between them, their conscience, and their managers and have nothing to do with me.
43
@Poussiequette Totally. I don't complain about coworkers unless it impacts my work. I am a School Counselor and my primary responsibility is my students. Beyond my pay grade to monitor employees. My boss does that and he does it well.
5
@JSD I second your point about how being relaxed about literal hours worked can increase productivity. Plus some people are truly more efficient than others.
3
if they are getting away with laziness they also may be favored for advancement and end up as your boss, be very careful.
64
Regarding the gardener, I had a similar situation with my ballroom dance teacher. It's not clear whether the gardener really needs the money or is just doing something he enjoys to stay busy and doesn't care about the money, but my dance teacher really does make her living from teaching. At one time she had only cashed about half my checks over a two-year period (In fact, I did consider asking the Ethicist what I should do). In my dance teacher's case early senility is not a possibility, as some have suggested with the gardener, because she is still sharp as a tack. I think some people are just not as well-organized or as money conscious as others. I finally gave her the money in cash one day. I think she was a bit embarrassed about it, but she's been much more conscientious about cashing my checks since then.
19
Given that the "lazy" employee's actions don't affect the letter writer AND the letter writer also enjoys a relaxed work atmosphere (but not as relaxed as her slacker co-worker), I would absolutely keep my mouth shut.
If she complains to HR, it can basically go one of three ways: HR does nothing (but now letter writer is known to be a complainer and a snitch), HR adjusts everyone's schedule to be as lax as the slacker (not likely), or HR drops the hammer and everyone's schedule gets more strict (and who do you think everyone will blame when that happens?).
A lot of life's problems can be solved when you MYOB.
158
@Cloud Hunter
Best answer. Seen this many times. Always backfires on the complainer. Maybe the useless employee knows where the bodies are buried.
22
Concerning the do-nothing worker. As the coworker states "she gets the job done with minimal effort" so obviously something is getting done and everything else is just envy.
I would speculate that the earned seniority reflects that she is efficient at getting her job done, perhaps because she refrains from the pettiness exhibited by her coworkers. I would wager that the complaint was written during work hours and the complainant is seeking a handout from the HR department.
18
Well, no. Reread the letter. She does the minimal amount required for a particular job, and blames poor results on the clients, et al.
21
@Angelus Ravenscroft
I'm sorry Angelus but you have misread the letter.
"she gets the job done with minimal effort"
5
@SSS
I suspect that was simply not very well worded. You are reading it that she gets her work done efficiently; in the context of the rest of the letter, it seems more likely the writer meant that this employee puts in the minimal amount of effort possible to (technically) get the job done, but that doesn't mean it's getting done very well. The rest of the letter details client complaints, co-work demoralization, and the employee herself bragging that she is slacking off during work hours. Reading comprehension ...
2
I learned some important life lessons over a couple of decades with two slacking co-workers. (Yep, they kept their jobs for decades; it was government work.) One was such a nice guy he became a friend. The other one I tried to influence by shunning: it didn't work.
With the nice guy, I ended up supplying some friendly mentoring as we worked on projects together, and actually had a positive impact on his self-confidence and professional growth.
With the other one, I learned (in retrospect, with regret) that friendly relations with all your colleagues makes the work day much more pleasant. Leave the moralizing to management. (In general, I've found that you can still be friends with someone whose company and conversation are enjoyable, even if you morally disapprove of some of their attitudes.)
65
@Flâneuse
I also worked in government for many years with two shiftless, lazy, incompetent, perpetually tardy colleagues.
One managed it by being relentlessly charming and jovial. I found it endlessly aggravating that he was a social butterfly while I was the go-to guy.
The other, who is now serving time for workman's comp fraud, made it work by terrifying his superiors with threats of discrimination complaints.
I have no interest in cultivating a friendship with someone I don't respect who has no work ethic.
32
@Flâneuse
It happens in private businesses as well.
Had several relatives who worked in a family business. 3 of them worked long hours and weekends doing all they could to make it succeed. (It's still going strong after almost 70 years.)
1 of them hired his brother-in-law. Nice guy but had no confidence in himself. Always asking others to check over what he did. Was a joke to the 2 who weren't related to him.
After 20+ years, the b-i-l finally seemed to develop confidence in himself and did a good, if not great, job. After 40+ years he retired.
10
Re: the lazy coworker: give the complaining customers the name of the supervisor and/or HR department.
"Unfortunately I'm not in a position to do much about it, but I'm sorry you're getting bad service. Here are the names of her supervisor and our HR department-- if you talk to them directly, you may have some luck."
This doesn't protect you from the customer saying "Joe Aggravated Coworker told me to call," but it does introduce the dissatisfied customer issue directly to the higher-ups, without making you be the middle-man.
44
@WWD Well, the letter doesn't say the complaints are coming from customers. It simply says "...I constantly have to field complaints about her." In combination with other comments in the letter, I imagined the complaints were from coworkers, not from people outside their team.
12
@WWD
"Joe Aggravated Coworker told me to call" can really bounce back too, especially if they put it as notes on a support website that the lazy employee has access to.
Not that it's ever happened to me.
4
@WWD
From the letter It is unclear if any complaints are from customers. Because it is vague I will assume that the complaints are NOT from customers since that would be very material.
5
In my experience, lazy coworkers are often friends of the supervisors or a more senior manager. Thus if you complain to HR, the coworker is guaranteed to find out you did it. And your supervisor is going to be annoyed with you for putting him/her in an awkward position of having to deal with this issue instead of blindly pretending there is nothing wrong. In the end, you will be the one with the bad reputation in the eyes of management. It is extremely unfair but will be how it ends up.
70
@Niche: A squeaky wheel gets the most grease but it's the first one to be replaced.
62
@Niche
Once an employee gets a bad reputation, especially for "ratting out" a co-worker, that stink never goes away. In the end, it causes for grief and pain to the wrong person. Often times staying in one's lane is the more prudent course to take.
11
Regarding the Do-Nothing employee. I know from observation that complaining to HR can backfire. It may not be as much an ethical problem as it is something that can hurt you, thus a bad idea.
However, from my experience, I know opportunities can sometimes fall in your lap. I worked with someone who was very likable outside of work, but they way he'd come in and not do anything or just leave while on the clock was infuriating.
One day he wasn't in the office in the morning from, presumably, finishing his over night shift. I simply asked the HR person where he was.
I did have a real concern for this employee's safety, but also wanted him to quit cheating the company and the rest of us if he was ok but simply walked off the job while he was supposed to be on the clock.
It turned out to be the latter and he was fired.
I repeat -- all I did was ask the HR person where he was when I came to work in the morning. I let the company higher-ups make all the other decisions and stayed out of things.
24
Regarding the gardener, direct approach of going to his house and handing him cash in person would help to evaluate the situation: 1) is there any reason he does not feel comfortable receiving payment, and 2) has there been a cognitive decline? Often a change in handling financial and executive tasks are the first signs. Is there a partner or adult child to bring into the loop, as perhaps they too have suspicions but no concrete signs.
25
@Healthy Nurse
As noted by others, it is far more likely that he is either 1), evading taxes, or 2), is collecting SSI (and/or possibly SSDI), which limits any additional income he can earn. If the LW pays him in cash, that eliminates the paper trail of taxable/allowable income.
2
All else aside, it’s kinda bizarre someone working 7.5 hours would be under some expectation of not being able to eat lunch. Agreed upon or not. It’s also possibly illegal not to have a break.
64
@Matthew I've seen this in many workplaces. Given the relaxed nature of this organization, it's likely the employee proposed the schedule. "How about I come in at 9 and leave at 4:30; I'll work the full 7.5 hours and not go out for lunch". Many people in this situation (or even those in a situation in which they work many more hours in the day) just eat lunch at their desk while catching up on email, reading documents or attending conference calls (some organizations bring in lunch at meetings, so no lunch break is taken).
Come to think of it, this is how every office I've ever worked in (in almost 40 years) has operated.
37
@Matthew - You are probably not an hourly employee, so let me break it down for you:
As lunch breaks are generally not paid, to complete a 7.5 hour shift, the person would have to be present 8.5 hours, with an unpaid lunch in the middle of the shift.
What this employee is trying to do is take a "terminal break", that is, take her lunch during the last hour of her shift. Thus, she goes home an hour early.
She is being paid to work for all the 7.5 hours she is present, therefore, she is not supposed to be taking a break.
Yes, this can cause problems, which is why employers do not usually agree to this.
17
@PM I asked to do this at my last job and got a big, fat no. I'd rather eat a granola bar and go home an hour early, but that was not allowed.
14
Regarding the friend with the suspected imitations: Ask, don’t tell. “Wow, that’s beautiful! How are you able to tell the real thing from a reproduction?” “Did you have it evaluated there or do you plan to do it here?” “How do you tell the difference between antique jade and colored quartz?” “Do they provide proof of its age?” “If I were to go to Singapore, how could I confirm that I was dealing with a reputable dealer?”
Sometimes it’s better to lead friends to the answers than to declare it outright (especially if you are not an expert yourself). If they don’t want to pursue the topic, they already know the answer. If you are told that it’s a forgery, “Oh no! Well, it sure is beautiful, I see why you bought it." For the sake of your friends and your friendship, give them the opportunity to figure it out on their own (if they want).
164
@Carol Emerson
Or is this the worst sort of way to treat "friends"? Instead of honesty, you propose suggesting that they have been had whilst simultaneously trying to hide your intentions. Ugh. Be frank or be quiet.
8
Mind you own business. I've been in an office environment, large and small, for many years and nothing is more damaging and saps productivity than people that disrespect their coworkers. The nosy, judgemental busybody can be very damaging. Offer advice to HR if you think you're objective enough to be helpful, but if you don't respect your management enough to evaluate their own people, look for a more compatible work environment.
6
I agree re the lazy employee - the supervisors can't be bothered to address the issue.
8
Customers are complaining. Ask to have the slacker moved to a different team. If you do not complain, she might blame shortcomings on you. After the request to have her moved and statement of why, then it is on management.
5
omg, she takes lunch breaks! there’s something wrong with a country that thinks lunch breaks are a bad thing. this culture of business over people needs to be fixed. this culture of where you’re supposed to be grateful to find a full time job with benefits is insane. america is deeply broken.
63
@marilyn blanche I think what’s going on here is that the slacker has told management that she’ll leave a half hour early rather than take the unpaid half hour break that everyone else gets, but then still takes a lunch break thus gets paid for 2-1/2 hours each week that she didn’t actually work. (Unpaid meal breaks are not uncommon; if it’s so busy that employees don’t get their meal break they note that when they sign off on their time cards so that they’re compensated the 30 minutes or whatever.
23
@marilyn blanche I work in manufacturing. 12 hr. shifts. We get 3 paid half hour breaks thru out the day.
3
@marilyn blanche, other employees do not know if their is a medical accomadation for a coworker. I had an employee a couple of levels below me who was diabetic. He needed to take additional breaks to eat, to manage his blood sugar. His male managers the three levels in between he and I were being unacomading. He was African American, a Vietnam veteran who was considered disabled as a hire. He was thin, and much of America does not equate a tall thin man as diabetic. He is not required to tell the supervisor the nature of his disability. He was hired in a position that gave preferrance for veterans of military conflicts with disabled veterans basically blocking any other hire. He was hired prior to me. His doctor from the Va said with a couple of periodic breaks and the ability to Carry oranges and candy in his rolling work cart he would manage his disability. His first and second line supervisors one retired military, but both Vietnam veterans did not know the details of his condition. Hippo did not allow kw to tell them and he did not want to disclose. They made up lies shush as Bobbie had gotten skinny because he was runny in the streets and had bricked up aids. This was false. Hippo prevented me from saying other than stop spreading false rummies.he was married and brought in photos of his baby sono graham then photo first an girl and thrn a boy. I met them when they were about 6/7. The same as age as my children.
4
Tell the gardener you need him to deposit the check so you can balance your checkbook. Make it about you. Maybe that will help him along.
21
@NYCSandi Good grief or just give him cash!
4
For a gardener of many years who lives 8 blocks away, might the writer just knock on their door and hand the money over. Or have a conversation and resolve why the gardener does not seem to be cashing checks. Also, the gardener's health may be an issue.
23
I once worked for a "supervisor" who frequently didn't show up to work. He got away with it because he was a crony of the CEO. When the CEO was fired for mismanagement and a new manger was brought in to fix all the damage, the "supervisor" continued his antics. In the end he was fired for not showing up for an important reorganization meeting. He didn't know the meeting had been called because he hadn't come to the office that day.
Moral of the story: when a worker is a do-nothing, it's usually because some bigwig is covering up for him or her.
125
Re the lazy co-worker: If the letter writer is receiving complaints, those should be shared with his / her immediate supervisor. Going to HR would probably be ineffective, in my opinion / experience.
Re the antiques: Say something like "I hear that the market has a lot of really good forgeries that are hard to detect. You might want to think about getting an expert to appraise some of these things to make sure they're authentic. They sure are beautiful, though."
11
@Oxo Whitney Oh, nice idea for the antiquities question! That's a really lovely way to tell your friends they were (probably) ripped off, and in the event that the letter writer (who sure sounds confident) is actually wrong, it doesn't look sour or petty. Saves face for everyone!
The gardener likely has a disorganized life and home. He probably doesn’t know where the checks are at this point. Ask him if he is open to being paid by cash weekly or monthly. Either pay him the cash when he is over working on your lawn or walk the three blocks to his home and deliver it by hand. Alternatively, ask if you can send a check directly to his bank or ask if he will accept something like a Venmo payment. If he had a physically disability that required you to pay him in a certain way, you would likely accommodate his need. We should do the same—within reason—for people with other differences that may not be as readily discernible as a physical disability.
19
Next time you have a chance to talk with the gardener, do so. Be on the lookout for confusion and memory problems that don’t affect the job he does for you, but might be signs of a medical problem that could harming him.
10
Is the gardener a professional gardener or just a neighbor who is helping out another neighbor? It’s hard to imagine a professional with multiple clients who depends on income wouldn’t be billing people. But if the original arrangement came about either because the gardener was in a difficult place way back when and the LW was helping him out by giving him work, or because the LW is disabled or otherwise unable to do the gardening, I can see why a neighbor who doesn’t worry about the money might not worry about getting paid.
10
Agree on both the lazy employee and gardener. It is not the "good employee's" job to do something, it is the supervisors job. Also make sure the assessment of the lazy employee is objective and not that one of envy.
One thing the employee can do, if the lazy employee creates more work for her then she can diplomatically hint to the supervisor something should be done otherwise the total work in the department will not be done. However be careful here, document that you a doing a full day's job.
Agree with the gardener story, it is the best way to clear it up.
15