As an undergrad in college in the '80s, I took an economics course and loved it. (And got an A.) When I spoke to my [male] professor about perhaps making it my major, he told me it wasn't a field for "girls" and discouraged me from pursuing it.
2
Ask an audience of men and women what they do when they are walking alone. But don't do it as a free for all. Ask them if they look behind them. Ask them if they check to see if they are being followed. Ask them if they usually park their cars where there is a street light at night. Ask them if they feel inside their pockets or purses for their keys when they get frightened. Follow that up by asking if they clasp their keys between their fingers facing out. Watch who raises their hands the most. It will be the women.
Men do not understand why women are tired of this. It's a waste of energy to have to go through a day taking precautions. Most of us are not guilty of anything but being women. But in America and other cultures, being a woman means being an open target for all sorts of obnoxious behavior. I have had men scream obscenities at me when I've been politely asking them not to do something. I have been fondled at work. I was molested as a child. I've seen my hard work on the job ignored.
Women are not mentored. Women are not paid according to their skills. When women or girls are given even 10% more time than men, men/boys feel as if ALL the attention is going to the females in the room. Women who are older are denigrated as hags. Not men. Women are told they're stupid when they ask questions. Not men. Women's suggestions are ignored until a male colleague takes them up.
Being anything other than a white male in America is a problem.
6
Nice to see the numbers (again). However, this is not just Economics. These numbers would be representative of most corporate and association structures. So, will the Economists clean up their own house -- and then, apply the study to everywhere else? Imagine the economic impact of this behavior. But, that really isn't the issue, is it? Current "leaders" of these organizations don't really care. The empirical data has been there for more than a couple of decades to show that a more diverse organization is a more productive and profitable one. So, if that is the case, the underlying question is, why aren't organizations falling all over themselves to create more diversity? Pure and simple -- discrimination.
1
200 assaulted? 85% physically assaulted? What is the definition of assault?
2
thanks!! its so nice to be heard
1
I am reminded of reporter Ron Suskind's book, "Confidence Men," about economists in the Obama Administration, and the (few) female economists in the group complaining to Valerie Jarrett about discriminatory treatment by their male economist colleagues. The book also discusses, among other examples of the marginalization of female economists in both the Clinton and Obama Administrations, the dismissiveness of male colleagues when Brooksley Born, then CFTC commissioner, advocated during the Clinton Administration for closer regulation of financial derivatives. The repercussions she (and the country) suffered as a result of this strong male opposition are recounted in the book.
11
This is an endemic problem common to almost all professions -- women and minorities continue to be marginalized and need to be be better than others to succeed. When they have been given they have excelled -- just look at Janet Yellen, one of the best chairs of Fed ever, or CEOs of GM, Microsoft and Alphabet, who have done an astounding job at these companies.
58
@RSSF Yep. I work in a female-dominated profession, and it is still dominated by men at the top. That would be an interesting survey. Lets look at nursing, K-12 education and other female-dominated professions and compare gender ratios of managerial roles to rank and file roles.
53
Just a nuts and bolts thought on one of the issues brought up here: Women, and minorities, don't ask questions, for fear of disrespect or harassment. But questions are one of the best ways to forward your ideas and showcase your brains---to stand out.
I suggest that in most venues, questions be submitted electronically, and that they appear on a screen behind the speaker. Questioner is blinded as to name or gender. (Questioner A, B, etc.)
After the question is answered, the questioner is invited to stand up, so everyone can see if a man or woman or black or white, etc asked it.
This won't end after-the-lecture harassment, but it will mean that the audience considers the question objectively on its merits. I know that there was a study done about hiring symphony musicians blindly--they auditioned behind a curtain--and that it made a huge difference in who was hired.
Sad to say we need to resort to such devices, but for fairness, clearly we do.
38
I get that the survey results just confirm what we all already knew. I hope they repeat the survey for years to come and track themselves versus set goals. Otherwise it's just a gesture.
25
Economics is not populated by individuals with considerable grace, self-awareness or even reasonable social judgement. Although Larry Summers is a brilliant economist, his statements that there tends to be more male than female outliers among high acheiving scientiests needed explanation. More importantly it stands as an example of not comprehending context or being empathetic.
Having worked as an economist for the last 20 years (accademia, banking, government) and not being a conventional one, initially I did not fit into the bro-culture of the discipline. By my math and computational skills, I landed in the field through business school. I found that economists with social skills and sound social judgment tended to work in banking and finance. Those without these skills pursue other options.
As a point of comparison, I also did the actuarial rout and found this type of behavior not as common. It is there, and tends to be among some actuaries. However, the requisit social skills to remain market relavent selects against this behavior.
Economics is a discipline that attracts smart and hard working people and will continue to make people better off. It can stand on its own without the nasty behavior.
11
@Hinch In my thirty-odd years in academe, I have found that "grace, self-awareness, and reasonable social judgment" are in short supply throughout colleges and universities, not just in economics. Self-selection ensures that nerds, geeks, and self-absorbed narcissists abound. The whole process of anonymous peer review makes it possible to survive and even thrive with fair-to-poor social skills. Good social skills are still an important asset for all the usual political reasons, but they are less essential in academic professions than in most other endeavors.
5
@Hinch After all these years I'm still puzzled as to what Professor Summers did wrong in stating what would appear to be facts. What context/empathic view would have changed the facts into non-facts? Or have we achieved a world where reality is actually less important that what we would like reality to be?
1
If you want to understand what discrimination feels like for a woman economist, take a look at my memoir, Sharing the Work: What My Family and Career Taught Me about Breaking Through (and Holding the Door Open for Others), published by MIT Press in 2016. I received a Ph.D. in economics from MIT fifty years ago, and the memoir details the barriers I faced as I pursued my career at Stanford's Graduate School of Business, where I was the first woman economist ever hired as a tenure-track faculty member. Fortunately for me, I never experienced sexual harassment or assault. Things have become worse over the years. But having my ideas dismissed and my accomplishments demeaned was a regular occurrence, and still is for many women economists.
5
I am a female assistant professor who filled out the survey.
Incidents of outright sexism (e.g., unsolicited attacks on one's scientific integrity) and sexual harassment (unwanted advances, stalking, uncomfortable comments) are so common that I sometimes feel conflicted advising female undergraduates or graduate students to join the field. For the past three weeks, I can think of three distinct, important, events that happened to me or female junior colleagues.
Sometimes I blame myself for "stupidly" putting myself in this position --- the unfriendly culture was abundantly clear since freshman year of college.
65
I’m curious if you have any idea why the culture is this way? I went through computer science classes in the 90’s with a department that broke off from the math department. These professors were amazing. The main thing I remember though was that there were very few women in that field at that time.
Is this some sort of left over white male hegemony from yesteryears? Creepy!
1
@shecon
It's in medicine too: actually sexual harrassment and discrimination is rampant in every profession. I think a far better study for an economist, or a law student wpild be some data on how many women are whistleblowers. I don't just mean discrimination- public health/ safety etc. I think these two issues are strongly linked and not accidental.
6
@shecon As a minority female academician from applied psychology, I understand your situation and empathize with you. I commend your courage. What we go through, is degrading. And, yet we work to meet the same tenure standards as our male colleagues, and most of the times, have to outperform them. I thank you for speaking up.
20
As an historian I knew harassment by 'colleagues' and by advisors was significant. Perhaps because the gender split in history is very close to 50/50, a lot of this trouble has been backed off as power and control within the discipline has been modified. Nevertheless, I am appalled by what's been going on in economics and cannot imagine how the discipline can be maintained, much less strengthened.
13
While the results of this survey reveal a deep and troubling problem with sexism and harassment in the economics profession, what the survey can't reveal is the extent these problems are better or worse in economics than in comparable professions. And since it was an entirely voluntary survey with a 20% response rate, we can't determine whether its results are statistically significant with a 95% degree of confidence.
I suspect these issues are endemic to nearly all walks of life. But, as female economists may be particularly well trained and empowered to recognize and object to inappropriate conduct, I would certainly encourage my daughters to study economics, despite this report.
3
@Sam I Am I is certainly true that this survey, on its own, can't speak to how economics compares to other fields. But we do have some evidence of that. Thirty years ago, economics was comparable to other STEM fields in the underrepresentation of women. Since then, however, other science and engineering fields have seen substantial (though certainly incomplete) progress; economics has not, at least as measured by the share of women earning doctorates, winning professorships, etc.
20
Not in the least surprising. For all who are pointing out that the survey may overrepresent the problem because responses are voluntary, consider also that only members of the AEA even got the survey. I'm sure plenty of white women and people of color who found the culture or their particular problems to be unbearable left the field before getting to the point of being members of the AEA.
30
@Heather
You can be sure. I know because I meet your description. Didn’t see the value of AEA membership.
5
One recommendation for anyone. If you see bullying or sexual assault report it. When you are telling your coworker that was wrong and shouldn’t happen to you report it. Otherwise it’s their word versus the trouble maker who typically almost always has done position of authority.
After a pattern is established the problem can be removed. My most frustrating experience was dealing with a hostile coworker who my coworkers would tell me was treating me out right wrong but having to defend myself as if it was my word versus theirs.
If you see this garbage report it or else you or someone you care about becomes the victim next.
In time the person will hang themselves if people simply looked out for each other instead of not wanting to get involved.
13
@Mathias You should also ask yourself whether you would take the same action if the genders were reversed.
2
@rella Where does Mathias say he is referring only to women? Yes, the same action should be taken, no matter what the gender, but as this article points out, it's overwhelmingly women who are the victims. Stating the obvious doesn't help.
4
@Galway I didn't say Mathias was referring only to women. I was putting it in the context of the larger discussion here, which is mostly about women. Further, you seem to be missing my point, which is that women are often considered victims when men in similar situations would be told to "man up" or some such thing. Also, female faculty are often given a free pass when they engage in the kinds of behavior that people have complained about in other comments posted here (e.g., displays of affection toward students).
1
Those stats sound about right, just unusually candid. Our estimation of the stats for the general population reflects roughly the same numbers, and have held steady for long enough that we've stopped tracking down the various data points needed to extrapolate this kind of information more or less accurately.
Maybe it's some underlying aspect of the group itself, or an emerging trait. Either way, bravo.
--T&K
In which discipline is there not bias and sexism toward women? Surely there is no secret regarding this. We've been dealing with this all our lives.
2
I’m a female economist in a health field. When I was younger, I had a male colleague ask me, upon meeting for the first time at a conference, and without knowing anything about me or my background, whether I had a masters degree in public health. After I said no, I have a doctorate, he says oh, in epidemiology? This was at an economics conference, which hardly ever accepts noneconomists. Still, the default assumption was that I was not an economist. If you look at all female, you’ve got a lot more to prove in this profession. You can’t easily have long hair or such.
One caveat- I don’t think these problems exist as much at the elite level, where both men and women are already known to be brilliant. However for the remaining 90% of the profession, where men and women are similarly mediocre, not fun to be a woman at all.
5
As a member, I'm glad that the AEA has adopted some kind of ethical guidelines. I just wish that they would go further.
For example, the American Statistical Association (ASA) has long had ethical guidelines for data scientists that cover important things like falsifying or deliberately misrepresenting results. I've never understood why the AEA wouldn't just adopt those portions of the ASA guidelines that apply to economists.
4
No wonder Harry Truman wished for a one-handed economist:
https://www.economist.com/buttonwoods-notebook/2010/06/07/one-armed-economists
There's no shortage of one-handed economists, @jbartelloni. But having only one hand means that they always point you to the right or always to the left.
1
Can we start actually naming names? Talk to anyone in the profession and they can reel off a list of men who have done this.
8
Economics is most accurately thought of not as a science, but a system of ideological believes that claims to be underpinned by science but to which the closest analogue are religious believes.
Thus, as we have in religion, e.g. the catholic, protestant, islamist, Jewish believe system, we have in economics, the Keynesian, Monetarist, Neo-Keynesian, New Keynesian, Neo-classical, New Classical, Austrian, Modern Monetary Theory, Behavioural believe system, to name a few (Disclosure: I am a fellower of the Behavioural School led by Nobel Memorial Prize winner Robert Shiller)
As in other ideological driven believe systems (e.g. the Catholic Church, Orthodox Jewishm, Islam) the various economic schools tend to have a problem with women , who are, as social research has demonstrated over and over again, inclined to be less ideological, and more pragmatic.
Were there more women in economics, it would be a humbler and more pragmatic science (as for example sociology)
Alas, that is like hoping for the Unitarian Church..
4
@Woof
*beliefs
corrected for you
The iPhone thought it was “believes”.
As an economist who went to a top US university for grad school, I can attest to the wide discrimination that exists in the field.
The culture of smugness, arrogance and pretension from academic economists does not help at all.
Economics should radically change, in tolerance and humility, to have any sort of relevance again.
14
If you want to know why this sexist behavior continues, look at the comments section and the number of men saying, "But wait, this study must be flawed (even though I haven't read it)... and let me tell you why."
I can only imagine that's what female economists must hear every time they present a paper, too.
20
@RVC
This comment is flawed(even though I haven't read it)..and let me tell you why...
1
Anyone surprised, really? I mean - have you *met* any economists?
15
So @A, you think Janet Yellen likely harassed her employees when she ran the Fed?
1
Senator Amy apparently harasses her staff.
1
I'm shocked, shocked that a profession whose core philosophy glorifies egotism would foster a culture of harassment and discrimination! Just shocking!
15
Disappointing that these findings were not communicated using a more rigorous conceptual framework - perhaps grounded in some type of game-theoretical -- grope/no-grope -- model of the economist's decision-making process.
Further analysis of the role of the unfettered invisible hand in determining equilibria in the economic labor market certainly seems warranted.
9
The “dismal science” really is dismal after all...
15
Economists’ findings usually correlate with their politics.
Now perhaps we can extend this: monopolies ie market power is not bad these days, wielding power over students isn’t bad either.
My understanding is that the AEA never had a code of conduct. I now see one was adopted....last year.
Show me an honest economist.
1
@Bill Webb
"Economists’ findings usually correlate with their politics."
Your view is jaundiced and rather uninformed. While there are 'talking heads' who propagate this type of view, it is not what respected Economist do, nor is it representative of the field at large.
4
@Paul P. I doubt if Mr. Piketty would agree - except for Mr. Bernanke's comment about it being a lucrative field.
1
@Bill Webb, I'll show you two.
Ben Bernanke
Janet Yellen
Janet Yellen and her Nobel-Prize-winning husband, George Akerlof, published a paper in the 1990s that advocated "shotgun marriage" economics. This was at the time that Gen-Xers (including vast numbers of highly educated (and STEM) women) were entering the producer marketplace in large numbers. The tax-and-benefit policies of that era (including Gingrich's "Contract [On] America" shotgun economics and the policies of Yellen's then boss, Bill Clinton) caused (in a behavioral economics sense) the "Gen-X stall" in women getting into top leadership positions (they've been at no more 20% for over twenty-five years). They were focused on the "technology shock" of high-tech contraception but not on the "technology shock" of readily determinable paternity (i.e. reforming tax-and-benefit policies around a baseline of two-earner/two-parent marriages, rather than the still-in-place-today debt-financed (and massive) subsidies to patriarchal/maternalist marriages), where the tech shock of DNA evidence (particularly the way the child now knows with near certainty who his/her father is, as well as who his/her mother is) has had and will continue have a much larger impact on the political economy, IMHO.
Whenever I read that 1996 paper, all I can think is "Where is Janet Yellen in the paper?" It seems to be all about Akerlof's agenda. (I am a lawyer with an undergrad degree in economics.)
2
@Colorado Reader
O'Rorurke's lack of deeds?
In comparison with Herr Trump, who's 'deeds' include 6 Bankruptcies?
I'll take a shot a Beto Presidency any day..
8
As a female economist who committed the cardinal sin of getting pregnant in graduate school, all I can say is there is nothing new or unexpected in this report.
All my professors were lovely - they gave me tons of used baby gear I couldn't afford. And then never took me seriously again intellectually.
OK, not quite all. I had a research position with an economist outside the department and he was exemplary.
44
Who would have thought that the Dismal Science actually peopled with horny, harassing, discriminating men?
No one should be surprised, because women face hurdles in virtually every profession and field of endeavor, whether in academia, in the professions, or in the "real world".
18
This is a problem when the accused is an overachiever. A leader. Time for the world to wake up and deal with accusations early on...regardless of the status of the accused.
10
When rents are being divided why are you in shock to find out that some feel to be excluded based on some characteristic and not because of something else? If men have more Google citations on average does it actually mean that women are discriminated? I think that journal editors and referees would want you to cite every paper relevant to your research, regardless of gender and race of its authors. Also, women and URMs have huge advantage in hiring.
3
I hear women complaining a lot in this article and comments about not being treated fairly. Specifically they attribute a setback, failure to get a promotion or whatever to the fact they are a woman. Sorry - in most cases that isn't the case. Stop making excuses. Everyone gets setbacks in life and not every setback you get (in fact MOST) is not due to your "identity".
5
@Dave Of course everyone has setbacks, and they are not All based on one's gender or identity. The problem is with proportion. Women experience a disproportionate amount of setbacks that ARE based on gender. Your assertion that in most cases that isn't the case is simply unfounded and inaccurate when one looks at the research. I suggest you do and read more scholarship on the topic as well as research before making such grand and broad proclamations. Have you read this other NY Times piece entitled "A Seat at the Head of the table": https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/21/magazine/women-corporate-america.html ?
24
@Dave
So, Dave, how do you know what happens “in most cases?” You have first hand knowledge of what happens
throughout the US?
26
@Dave Of course everyone has setbacks, and they are not All based on one's gender or identity. The problem is with proportion. Women experience a disproportionate amount of setbacks that ARE based on gender. Your assertion that in most cases that isn't the case is simply unfounded and inaccurate when one looks at the research. I suggest you do and read more scholarship on the topic as well as research before making such grand and broad proclamations. Have you read this other NY Times piece entitled "A Seat at the Head of the table": https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/21/magazine/women-corporate-america.html ? One of the most elucidating discoveries of that article is this part: I was meeting yesterday with a group of new managing directors at one of the banks here in the city, and one question they asked was, “How do you explain to the white man with equivalent qualifications to a woman or a person of color the decision to hire or promote them instead of him?” And I said: “Well, what do you say to the woman or person of color who was equally capable? Why do you assume that the position belonged to the white man?” A priori, men (usually white) are always assumed to deserve things over everyone else when everything else is equal and that is discrimination and inequality. If anything, women are not complaining or angry enough.
45
This is truly a shame. Because we could really use the insights of black and female economists. When will people realize that equal representation is necessary to excellence? We can only go so far with the testosterone-fueled consensus of the Chicago Boys and freewheeling freemarketeering. It has landed us in the trash capitalism of today, where bloated CEO payouts, dirt poor wages, medical profiteering and abysmally low social investment are carrying out a massive transfer of wealth to shareholders and the 1 percent. Only a critical mass of new voices can break up this frat party.
46
"..9,000 current and past members...both men and women, took part in the survey. And the results have jolted the group’s leaders..."
In my freshman college year, I learned that I was never alone, in a scary way. At the beginning of the first term, I was sitting alone having lunch, reading. Suddenly there was a stranger standing on the other side of my table, hands on the table leaning over towards me. “Hello Susan.”
I had never met him. We didn’t travel in any shared circles, but he knew my name.
“I know every class you take and I’ve followed you to each one. I know where you like to eat lunch and your favorite place in the library. I’ve been learning everything about you so I could ask you, could we go on a date?”
It was 1970, and in that moment I scared. I'm 5' 2", 118 lbs.
From that day on, I never traveled alone again. My folks wanted me to report the incident but I had no idea – none - who the man was. I never saw him again.
Working 20 years in the automotive industry, I was constantly the target of salacious comments from technicians, constantly being asked to go on a date, and the target of slanderous comments when I said No, and them yelling, "What's wrong with me? You're just a queer!"
Women experience this every day and many do not get off as easily. It always amazes me when men in suits say they are “jolted” by the results of surveys.
Jolted? What rock have you been living under for the past 100 years?
87
Utterly pathetic that some men refuse to evolve.
Women can do ANYTHING you can, gentlemen.
Your acknowledgement of the fact is irrelevant.
23
@Paul P.
Well, we can do *almost* everything, particularly in the work world.
Not speaking to you, Paul, but don't the rest of you poor guys get it? If women weren't so reduced to frustration and bitterness by your blocking our talents, we might be in a better humor to celebrate the Vive le Difference.
You're not only hurting us, you're shooting yourself in the foot! Feet.
Most of us would love to come out in play--if you'd only let us work in peace to the very best of our abilities.
6
Dog bites man. There isn't any job or profession where women are not accosted by men. Men of all races, colors and creeds. You can be the head of a department or a cashier at 7-11. Almost all working women have these stories to tell. Thus the meTOO movement.
46
@rella
Dream on.
8
@BG
Corporate culture has fostered the beast. Rapes or battery are handled by the company eeo lawyer or a school dean. The victim(s)'s credibility is destroyed and career usually ended. All of these issues should be handled by law enforcement, not a conglomerate of 'silencers'.
We live in a society where literally hundred of little girls were sexually abused by a doctor, and it took the #metoo movement for even Olympic gold medalists to be believed. This comment board shows they still are having their testimony questioned.
Every #metoo moment helps. This article ignored a Big elephant in the room: the lack of laws protecting women are the grounds of being women, there are laws for race, orientation, age, religion, criminal record... but nothing that helps if you happen to be a woman.
9
@elle
Except that, sadly, law enforcement's record is not much better. We need a societal shift in attitude. I think we could be starting on that path.
3
After endless articles about sexism in the tech and film industries, it's about time to focus on others that are worse.
4
I am in Medicine. I cannot believe Econ is worse. If you want to see the cream of the good old boy networks, head to Medicine. A study by Med Chi ( Md state medical society) revealed in the state of Md., women are being paid 50 % less than male docs, across the board, in all specialties, even after adjusting for number of hours worked. Wage gap and wage theft, are both in play for women docs. Sexual assaults, stalking, punitive actions for whistle blowing are all par for the course. And awareness training about implicit biases blah, blah don't seem to work. Why? The training should start young. It should come in the lower grades and it should come from the home. The folks in power, right now, are threatened by what they see as the "invasion" of the purse snatchers and of course it disconcerts them, that the purse snatchers come in many colors, shapes and forms and can be women, men, fluid gender, non gender, trans gender or gay or lesbian. Sexual innuendos and assaults are not only meant to demean they are also meant to eliminate work place rivalry. Marry the woman when she's about to supplant you as the boss or simply wage a war against her right to her own body, independence, privacy and agency. Econ has traditionally been a white male enclave. There are many others beating down the doors of that exclusive club and they're not going away.
41
In article after article “attempted assault” is never defined. I’m with the good guys, but I like to know exactly what we’re talking about.
3
@Charlierf
"Attempted assault" is being grabbed.
14
@Charlierf
assault is being grabbed
rape is being forced into sexual intercourse in any bodily cavity
being known as a bright student is not protective
10
@Charlierf The full language of the survey is at the link below. I think you'll find the description of assault (and attempted assault) they're using is pretty unequivocal. https://www.aeaweb.org/resources/member-docs/climate-survey-results-mar-18-2019
19
Trump, a misogynistic white male if ever there was one, didn't waste a minute replacing Janet Yellen, a brilliant and extremely effective Fed Chair, with a white male as soon as he could. While his action was the Fed's (and our banking system's) loss, the move freed Yellen to ascend to the highest position at the American Economic Association. She will undoubtedly have a positive impact on the treatment of female economists by serving not only as a wonderful role model, and by using her position to seek ways to reduce the incidences of sexual assault and bias in the economics profession.
Now we need a female head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to combat rampant sexual assault and bias against females in the military.
35
@ALB
And a female president!
6
@ALB
He replaced her when her term was up. That's normal. His motive for not retaining her may not have been normal.
1
I am prepared to believe that there has been discrimination but there has also been reverse discrimination. Women economists are given preference in some organisations that are eager to show that they are not discriminatory. Recently the Bank of England proudly announced that is was aiming to have fifty percent women in the upper levels of the Bank. Of course this is also discrimination (against male economists)
2
@ian stuart
Why not 50% women? That disappoints you? There you are, dancing at the cutting edge of the discrimination.
22
@ian stuart and not one percent more!
5
@ian stuart It is only discrimination, if you don't believe there are enough women who are just as qualified as the male pool to fill the 50%. If you do then it is restorative justice.
I really recommend you read this other NY Times article that touches on this topic " A seat at the head of the Table" https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/21/magazine/women-corporate-america.html.
Here is snippet that I think you will find interesting: I was meeting yesterday with a group of new managing directors at one of the banks here in the city, and one question they asked was, “How do you explain to the white man with equivalent qualifications to a woman or a person of color the decision to hire or promote them instead of him?” And I said: “Well, what do you say to the woman or person of color who was equally capable? Why do you assume that the position belonged to the white man?”
16
I just can't believe this is in any way objective. What was defined as sexual assault, how does it differ from attempted assault, how does that differ from stalking and touching inappropriately. This kind of journalism is becoming dangerous as it perpetuates stereotypes and myths. Lesbian and gay economists think they are discriminated against in their profession? Does anyone know he or she is gay or lesbian? I attended hundreds of conferences, there were lot of men and lot of female presenters, I have never encountered any way of discrimination of female presenters. Nothing that they should be more afraid than an average presenter dreading to speak in public. If we equate every kind of worry or fear as based on discrimination and disrespect of women and minorities, it is not in any way helpful for society and progress in issues, where there is a real problem.
4
Maybe you, a male economist, have never encountered discrimination against women in your profession because you have the good fortune to not experience discrimination and therefore not understand what it looks like. It's quite presumptuous to dismiss other people's valid concerns just because you have the privilege of remaining blind to the issue. Other people can't turn a blind eye to discrimination even if they want to, because guess what -- it follows them throughout their lives. Your immediate dismissal of the problem and refusal to show support for your colleagues, especially when they're doing such an excellent job of conveying their experiences to thick-skulled white guys such as yourself, means that you are inadvertently contributing to a climate in which discriminatory behaviors can continue.
87
I just raised some issues with the article and the standard of reporting citing one questionnaire as a fact without any evidence or further research. I did not say there are no instances of discrimination or assault and I will back any such case when it occurs. However it is no longer possible to point to any flaws in reasoning without being immediately branded or attacked.
1
@Robert
"I have never encountered any way of discrimination of female presenters."
Why would you have?
15
I suspect that conventions in many fields are plagued with the same sort of abuse. When I moved to Houston in 1978, I had a job in the pipeline and production facilities branch of a well-known engineering company. I learned that the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) was scheduled soon and asked advice from a friend (a female engineer) about attending the OTC to explore a topic of interest. She advised me not to go, because the OTC was infamous for the type of behavior described in this article. Apparently, little has changed in 40 years.
25
Can't we just finally agree that in any male dominated "anything" women are going to either face sexual discrimination or sexual harassment in some form?
36
@Chigirl We can agree that women in the workplace – wives, daughters, nieces, aunts, grandmothers, neighbors, friends, colleagues – are going to experience sexual harassment, sexual violence. And that it will effect their husbands, daughters, sons, uncles – cutting to the chase, the communities where they live. BUT THERE ARE WAYS TO MAKE THAT GO AWAY!
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@Chigirl
We have already agreed as a society that battery and rape are crimes. The enforcement is lacking and entirely too arbitrary.
7
I guess the question is: why are men so insecure that they feel the need to gang up and try to keep the "others" out? As a culture, we need to raise better boys.
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Because economics is such a manly & macho pursuit that the men can't control themselves? (Sigh.)
Of course, this is the field of Larry Summers, who thinks women aren't too good at science. Coincidentally, he said this when he was President of Harvard.
And an ombudsman is only useful if they have real clout. Otherwise, it's a fig leaf that rarely changes how business is done.
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Please get your facts straight. This is not what Summers said, just what you think he said from reading third-party accounts.
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@Kathleen Warnock Actually Summers said there was a gap ad we need to do research as to why.
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Unfortunately, every woman knows this to be true.
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The author compares economics to "other science and engineering fields". Economics is not a science. It certainly isn't any form of engineering. It's politics hiding behind a wall of numbers.
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@Kaleberg
Definition of science
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding
2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology
b : something (such as a sport or technique) that may be studied or learned like systematized knowledge have it down to a science
3a : knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method
b : such knowledge or such a system of knowledge concerned with the physical world and its phenomena : natural science
4 : a system or method reconciling practical ends with scientific laws
Even under 3b, neuroeconomics qualifies. So how do you determine economics is not a science?
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Reading this reminded me of how accomplished I was as a young woman in ducking out of the "hug" or "shoulder squeeze" that was common to every women. Still men feel they have a right to that and some to much worse... they don't.
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@rella I can only bring to mind one woman I worked with, that I witnessed engaging in harassing behavior towards men in over a 30 year career. These men didn't object, I witnessed the men acting flattered and very much enjoying the attention. I should note they were her superiors. This made the other women in the office very uncomfortable. When the bosses like it, you say nothing. Women have spent decades not complaining about this, welcome to 2019, when we will no longer be silent.
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I am a women in economics who filled out this survey, and I suspect the results only capture a fraction of the problem. In the weeks after I filled out the survey, memories of verbal harassment that I had experienced and tried to ignore or minimize came flooding back--as well as stories of other women in the profession being assaulted (which certainly had a chilling effect on me as well). Thus, I realized later that I underreported on the survey.
When I was speaking to other women at American Economics Association meetings (after I had filled out the survey), many hadn't even heard about it. And, of course, the survey certainly wouldn't have reached the women who were driven out of the profession.
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@SRS Also a female economist who filled out the survey. My experience exactly. Thanks.
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@SRS
I am a practicing economist in a research position outside of academia. I was unaware of the survey.
I suspect many of my colleagues were also unaware because it never came up in discussion.
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In 1984, I applied to the PhD program in Economics at UCLA. I was asked to provide both transcripts and a resume of my work experiences thus far. As a student at NYU in the late 70s I helped pay for college by modeling with the Wlihelmina agency. I can only attribute the treatment I got to this disclosure, which in hindsight was a mistake. I received a call at home one Sunday morning from a professor on the staff who gruffly insisted that I meet him at a restaurant for an interview. When I declined he proceeded to grill me on economic theory. Being young and unsure of the normal admission process for an advanced degree at a top university, I struggled to answer. Later, shaken, I called the department and reported the encounter, giving the professor’s name. The female administrative staff who answered the phone was clearly shocked. Later I got a call back from the chairman of the department who apologized for the ‘poor judgement’ of the professor. That was it. I was not accepted. Nothing happened to the professor. I became a software developer.
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@Rebecca ...and as a software developer, I'm sure you have some hair-raising stories from THAT profession.
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@Rebecca - You would have been very welcome on the 6th Floor of Bunche Hall, in the History Department.
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@Rebecca - I have a good idea about whom you are speaking. He harassed me when I worked for him over a decade later. My experience as an economist has been starkly good and bad. There are wonderful male professors and colleagues, but the bad ones can give the Hollywood creeps a run for their money.
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It is becoming increasingly clear that sex discrimination - imcluding sexual assaults - are common to many different parts of society. Whether it is men on the street whistling and taunting women, or white collar men treating colleagues and employees as sex objects, the ubiquity of sex discrimination is clear.
There is a term (which I never liked) for a men's sleeveless undershirt - a wife-beater - which is widely used to characterize working-class men who mistreat women. Maybe the button-down dress shirt deserves a similar nick-name - I propose the groper.
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Oh my - who'd a-thunk it? Such a surprise. No, that's right. It's not a shock at all!
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Please.
No one needed a report to know that, in all professional, male-dominated businesses, females continued to be treated as 1) something attractive to look at and 2) someone to do the grunt work well for less money. And once #1 is gone, e.g., after you're 45, good luck even hired to do #2.
And this is 45 years after we started trying to get the ERA passed.
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If every professional association did a survey like this they would get the same results. If every company did a survey like this they would get the same results. If every state did a survey like this they would get the same results. Get it yet?
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@Susan Goldstein
On a positive note, almost every woman and man in America support #metoo for that exact reason.
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@Susan Goldstein
What is your evidence? I'm inclined to doubt that my own field, mathematics, is nearly as bad as economics, although my evidence is only from friends in the profession. I agree it would be worthwhile to have such surveys in other professions and organizations.
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@Thomas Zaslavsky Personal observation after a 40 year career as a management consultant and coach. I was the one the attorneys called when men (mostly) behaved badly.
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