I’m my kids’ “back office,” and we’ve mostly met a balance. I’ve used my facility with language to proofread some university papers upon request. Why not? I didn’t research, write or substantially revise them.
My daughter has been hospitalized with depression and anxiety related issues. You’d better believe I’m a pressure valve for her as she matures into adulthood, which she’s doing.
I back down until I need to ramp up. They pay ME some for their phones, car insurance and other items as they move toward financial independence. I help them out when needed but one of them actually helped me with a major purchase.
This method works for us and they say they feel supported but still in control of their young lives.
I can't help but think about these individuals when certain television commercials come across the TV screen.
It's so obvious many commercials are hoping to educate successive generations of Millennials whose mom's and dads did way too much for them as they aged into and out of adolecense and into young adulthood. And as this article states, for a growing number already having aged into adulthood.
There are plenty of 'rights of passage' these types never got to encounter. To this day they're still 'rebels without a cause', never encountering a certain something to help define them, though the issues were there for them en-masse like low-hanging fruit. For instance, the environment-Global Warming, the Iraq and Afghan wars, A Woman's Right to Choose.
This actually starts with parents over-protecting their children from the start — long before preschool and kindergarten — from everything. The Times has published articles on how much more independent and self-sufficient children in other developed societies are compared with those in the US. Protecting children from the world, including developing healthy immune systems (by eating dirt) and confidence in themselves (by walking/playing elsewhere in neighborhood), is well-meant but undermines raising well-balanced, self-sufficient adults.
It apparently only gets worse as young adults because their parents don't stay home and let their children become citizens of the real world. Instead they continue to intrude into every aspect of the lives of their children. That's not resulting in self-sufficient adults prepared to experience life as it really is. What kind of parents will they become themselves, assuming they manage to do so on their own?
Eclectic Pragmatism — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
Financial independence is very different from emotional and social independence. It's very difficult for a single person of any age to be financially independent. That's one reason (and a big one) why people get married. It's also why cohousing is becoming more prevalent among adults. It might be a mistake for parents to give relationship advice or interfere in the job hunting process for their kids but honestly, I wouldn't say it's a failure on anyone's part for them to help new grads out with money. Getting started is hard.
3
To be fair the idea of someone being an adult at 18 years old is a bit dubious. Someone’s gonna throw out the ‘they can die at war qualification.’ But, we don’t even trust you to drink alcohol at that age. Financial assistance from parents of teens at that age is perfectly normal, as well as offering guidance about careers and romantic prospects. College graduation is when I step down from life coach to sometimes loan officer / mentor / emergency contact.
8
I pity the spouses who marry a grown adult with helicopter parents who give advice on relationships. Couples in healthy marriages bond through intimacy and independence. It is unhealthy for parents to ask about or be involved in marital or even dating relationships of their grown children.
3
It can go both ways. We can judge parents who try to help their kids out, but the truth is some support in those early days can help them become more prosperous and independent. Most kids I know who stayed at home in their early and mid-twenties to go to law school, for example, fared far better than those who took out loans to live alone. I know a successful award-winning chef whose parents footed the bills so she could learn kitchens in France without pay. Well, not long after she opened a smash success of a restaurant, and is currently building a culinary empire. Even our (sigh) president got some money from dad to turn it into more money.
I, for one, wish my family had paid for a year or two so I could focus on my writing and art after college, but they cut me off. I've spent ten years chasing a paycheck instead of doing what I really want to do. I try in my spare time, but it's tough. Meanwhile, I see "spoiled" kids realizing their dreams because they got a little extra help from mom and dad.
The issue is complicated.
15
I’m a Boomer from a lower-middle-class NYC family who was darn lucky. The City University colleges were tuition-free in the ‘60s, so my undergraduate years cost student fees of less than $50/semester plus books, subway fare, and lunch (most of us who were of conventional age lived at home and commuted). My two years of graduate school out of town were paid for by scholarships and help from my parents, but nobody went into major debt. As a result I had a personally rewarding, but not especially lucrative, public sector career. It’s a shame that due to the current cost of college that’s not an option for young people today.
8
Remember “never trust anyone over 30.”? Times have changed.
One reason parenting seems to last longer is that the generations are getting along better. This means I probably offer advice with greater empathy than my parents and he is also more open than I was at his age. All this is good.
I want to see an article that separates the cheating and invasiveness from the good stuff that comes with close ties.
Please, NYT. Write an article about that.
4
I was an only child growing up in the 60's and 70's and I enjoyed the complete attention of my parents in an era when large families were the norm. My parents did a lot of me, it was stifling at times but interestingly, I grew up independent enough to know my own mind and when I disagreed with their "plans" I went off on my own. Knew early, if I had to be my own person I had to pay my own way. And I did. They supported me through college but when I went to graduate school overseas, after the first semester I got a part time job that paid for tuition and living expenses. Fast forward now, I am grateful for the support my parents gave me so I created an endowment in their memory at my alma mater. It supports ROTC cadets - what is fascinating about the recipients is that they are driven, hungry, and fast track achievers with stellar academic and leadership backgrounds. I don't see any with handholding parents. Many of these cadets work part time jobs, hold down National Guard duty as well while balancing school work. Frankly, I look to these kids for our future - you can spot them right away. The sheltered kids will lose out because are too soft.
3
A friend of mine - who moved her kids out of Portland because she didn't want them growing up with the only aspiration to be a barista - is actually applying to and choosing colleges for her son. He's bright, well-educated, speaks three languages, at an international school in Barcelona and says most of his friends are in a similar boat - they don't really case what or where they study - so he's leaving it up to his mum!
Had a really mind-blowing conversation when she picked my brains about my opinion on colleges for her son. So strange.
2
'The Millionaire next Door' by Thomas Stanley and William Danko, published in 1996, but based on 30 years of studies, covers rich parents paying their kids way into their 50s! The recent scandal only brings it to the fore. In France, we even have a word for it
"Tanguy", after a famous play and movie of a 35 year old still at home. The Italians are famous for men staying home so long, young women don't want them; can't compete with the "Mama". I paid for a private university for my son, but since getting his Masters at 23; he's gotten a well paying job and is financially independent and living on his own. I hear so many horror stories about how times are hard and 'junior' can't find a job, etc; Its always been hard getting started, you just have to get at it!
1
Feels normal to me. Of course you can overdo it and take away their ability to grow, but, um, of course you help them whenever you can. They are your kids!
Not a surprise that more capable people help their kids more and for longer.
3
If anyone shows up for a job interview with their parent, they will immediately be shown the door. unbelievable.
7
I never did any of those things, unless you count paying their rent while they were still in school. My son and daughter are now in their 30's and competent self-sufficient adults.
Come to think of it, my parents never did any of that stuff for me, other than paying for my education. They assumed, for example, that I was perfectly capable of writing a decent essay, and if I couldn't, I probably shouldn't be applying to a selective college.
They were also great role models, which is much more important.
4
Son was a STEM major; daughter a business major; me, a high school English teacher. So yes, I was still proofreading and editing papers into graduate school. Why not? I was the expert. I didn't write them but I certainly told them when and where something needed revision. Both are grateful today that they are excellent written communicators in their professional lives as compared to their colleagues.
We did provide them with used cars to drive at age 16 though they had to earn their own insurance and gas money; we did help with tuition and living expenses in college though they had to pay for their books and incidentals and social life.
We did provide them a home to come back to after college while they saved up to buy their first home (or condo) though they had to pay a nominal amount to us for utilities and help with cleaning/maintenance of the family home.
Interestingly, it is our children now who often give us a hand financially and generous gifts for holidays now that we're on a fixed income. Do we text? Daily. Advice on child-raising and career moves? Check. Reminders that go both ways about important upcoming events/appointments? Check.
And I'm not done parenting yet. I get to do it again with my grandchild as a granny nanny. Every day. This way my daughter can pursue her career knowing I still have her back. It's called family.
18
Everyone does "family" to the best of their abilities.
But hey- thanks for making those who don't measure to to your example feel lousy!
5
I am an older parent of young children, and I am also at the age where I have to help my parents, not daily, but with texts, advice etc. to make sure they are ok. Inter generational familial support seems like a good way to live your life. Being able to pay for my kids college education so they can start off adult life debt free is a very good investment in creating independent children. When you are in the middle of parenting what is over parenting and what is appropriate is not a clear line, and the recent batch of articles make it sound like there is real research to know the best way to parent, but there is not. Other than a few universal truths, do not teach your kids to cheat or lie or steal, the rest of the parenting advice is just the fashion of the time you are living.
6
Yes children need to be responsible for their own lives. However, parenting throughout life is a human trait, distinct from animals. An important part of that human trait is also setting ethical examples so that the children contribute ti the society rather than be parasites.
My Dad would want to know my travel itinerary till he was 81 and I was 50, even though with my frequent global travel he couldn't have done much by way of care. Sometimes it irritated us. One of his constant concerns ( he retired as a High Court judge) was that our money should only be earned the right way. Last year he passed away at the age of 82, after a life time of caring for his three children and the only time his children could take care of him was in the last one year of his life when he was immobilized by a stroke and he could not even speak. Possible he believed in the dictum, ' Once a parent, always a parent'. Maybe that was only human.
4
We all want our children to have a better life than we did. Unfortunately we can not live there lives for them,
All we can do is hope that we instill values in them and find the right path.
Unfortunately the parents on this scandal will pay a heavy price for there academically challenged children,
You have to let these children know if you don’t study there are consequences.
2
The authors have a very broad view of what constitutes over-parenting. Parents need to help pay tuition and fees for their college students; it's just not possible to clear $30,000 a year with an entry-level summer job and part time work. As far as helping them get jobs, how is this different from walking your grown son down to the factory with you a generation or two ago? That's very different than contacting a child's professors or employers on their behalf or texting the kid to be sure they're awake.
9
Reading this, I'm more delighted than ever that I never had children.
20
Let’s hope for our children ,that we really listen to them!
They have their own answers and their callings.
Remembering ,none of us know what is best & few of us know what we want. Why would any parent want to take that “ Godly role” with such responsibility ?
Remembering too ,each person has the choice as Frost wrote:
‘Two roads diverged and I looked down as far as I could,and
chose the one less traveled by ;And that has made all the difference !’
That does mean as a parent ,you also have a choice to support their calling or passion both with love and dollars .
Listen to your heart .
if it is expanding the world in goodness,
Do Give and you also receive.
Mildred Helen Rowley
John W. Raymonda
1
I see a lot of myself in this piece. I did much more for my children and for much longer than my parents did for me. I'm not exactly sure why but I was more self-assured than my children at the same age and I didn't have as intimate a relationship with my parents as my children and I do. I think that is common to our respective generations. I agree with the person quoted about the 1970s - in retrospect it was a much more laid back time and felt less competitive. Romantic advice is not something I give to my children even though they sometimes ask. I've also stopped giving them career advice. I tell them that my information is outdated and therefore useless!
6
what many commenters seem to confuse is the difference between support for a grown child who is working hard to achieve, and doing the achieving fo an adult child who isn't even trying. bribing your child's way ahead isn't an achievement for either of you. supporting them as they put in the hard work is an achievement for both of you.
14
OMG--who wants to spend their lives parenting adults. It's no wonder employers can't find responsible hires to do competent work. Parenting has dissolved into babysitting for life. No thank you! Maybe those seeking to have kids in this overpopulated sinking society should think twice about how they want to spend their lives as we age into longer years. AND don't tell me they will be there to take care of the elderly unless it's as a aide in a care facility--they aren't even able to care for their newborns without anxiety and being sorry for themselves that now they are responsible 24/7 for an offspring. Also I see that the news people want to spend minutes airing kindergartners for doing something "heartwarming"--please, just adult news!
7
The author is speaking on the symptoms and not the disease (the failure of capitalism).
6
The one aspect I disagree w/ is the aspect of financial assistance with grown children. I do provide financial assist to both my grown children for major things. WHY? Because both of my children have done "everything" right. They went to college, have jobs, yet still aren't able to make ends meet in this economy. I had parents who provided for my education so I was fortunate. But then I had to make my way on my own salary. This was "doable" when I was still married but after my husband divorced me, trying to support two children on a nurse's salary was a week to week struggle. I carried large credit card balances to provide them w/ braces, sneakers, swim lessons. I worried myself sick for years wondering how I'd be able to send them to college and still keep my house. That was the 1980-1990s. Then my situation changed when my parents died. I am one of the FORTUNATE ones... I now have financial security. SO, why in the world would I want my children living their days in constant anxiety about whether to pay the electric bill or the phone bill this month? WHY let them go into debt because they had the misfortune of a car breaking down ? What "LESSON" would this teach them ? Life is short. They do the best they can and it is in my power to help them enjoy it. I'm not talking about fancy vacations, expensive clothes or dinners out... I'm talking about being able to wake up in the morning and breathe . It's a gift I can give and will until either they do not need it or I am dead
19
I don't see anything wrong with financial help. But making their dental appointments? Why?
7
@denise It goes beyond making dental appointments.
I worked in a major department store for several years and met several women (20's and 30's) who are incapable of buying their own bras/underwear because their mom always buys it for them.
They don't even know their own bra size. Seriously. "I'll ask my mom!"
At a certain point, it's pathetic.
2
I would have liked to have seen a breakdown of still in high school; in college (four years); on their own. My oldest a second year in university in Montreal and pretty independent. (He goes to a university where all students move off campus after first year.) My youngest is following the same route but will have a bumpier first year transition....I can see that coming a mile away.
When I compare them to their peers in US colleges it is night and day. Many of the "elite" schools have such a nanny state element to them. Parents Weekends? Huh...why? Drop off with days of activities that include parents? What...no...put stuff in room, have awkward goodbye, leave and cry in the car. It's a little crazy.
8
This piece seems like an attempt to conflate (for what purpose, I can only guess) helicopter parenting with the criminal and disgusting behavior of helping your kids cheat to set set them up for careers for which they are not qualified, in order to continue the cycle of privilege. Some of the “athletic” kids in the recent scandal did not even play on the teams once they arrived at college. Is this really part of “a broader pattern” of parenting, either practically or morally? I certainly don’t think so. It’s only a small number of very rich, corrupt people doing this. It is disingenuous to blame this on the usual gripes about coddled millennials.
4
There's a big difference between an 18 yo child who is in high school and living at home, and a 28 yo one who has graduated from college, has a job, and lives independently. Those 10 years should encompass a lot of growing up, and I don't see that lumping them together provides much insight.
22
I often see that parents are still doing the tax returns of their young adult children. That's a shame because it divorces young adults from a major part of their citizenship and how they fund the government benefits that they receive. By keeping themselves in the dark, they have no clue about tax laws and thus cannot make an informed vote influenced by that particular issue.
7
Are we moving from a male paradigm to a female paradigm? In a male paradigm human development moves from dependency to independence. In a female paradigm, the individuality of the self is no longer separate but is forever connected, what previously was considered a self is now considered a self-in-relation. The goal of human development is not independence but instead is interdependence. Was it not always true that we have always been inextricably linked to a web of relationships?
6
@LoveNOtWar - "Are we moving from a male paradigm to a female paradigm?"
We need to have a balance of both. And yes, I agree, we are all connected.
2
The role of technology in facilitating parental involvement is huge. I have three adult children and I am more involved in their lives than my parents were in mine, but because it's so much easier. My daughter, in her late twenties, recently had to travel for work and be picked up by an uber at the airport. She sent me a link to the uber drive so I could "follow" her to her hotel and not worry. I know, I know. Too much. But I was able to sleep better. In addition, because I was a working mom, my children and especially my daughter, will at times communicate issues at work so I can help her stand up for herself and reassure her that she is doing the right thing. I had not such support from my parents who were uneducated immigrants. I don't feel bad about giving my children support, however, as a former high school teacher, I know that parents often cross the line. I remember one distraught parent calling me after her son had gotten his first B on an assignment. He was a 9th grader, and she was concerned that he would not get into Yale as she had planned!
2
There is a big difference between a 18 year old and a 28 year old. The brain is still in major development 18-24.
That doesn't mean that an 18 year old shouldn't deal with the consequences....if they aren't too big. If the kid spends his monthly food money on junk and is out after two weeks, its time for rice and beans. If the kid isn't getting the reapplication for scholarship done and the deadline is looming; it's time for parental harassment...if the kid wants it. I've done some major interventions with 18 and 19 year old kids, but only on the big stuff and only if they agree.
I went to parent orientation at a prestigious institution last fall and some of the micro-managing questions were very entertaining. You do tend to have a slightly different perspective when you have more kids and less money.
5
Where do I start? Both of my parents are barely educated. Mom never went to school. My dad finished high school in India. When I moved here, I noticed how majority of the Indian parents were in their kids business even when they were 40. As if their kids never left their home. They never grew up. They took no responsibility of learning about adulthood.
4
My nephew, 25, and niece, 23, have never had to find their own apartment at college or grad school, never had to buy furniture, or pack and move themselves. Their mother does this for them. She's also bought their cars for them. They are great people, but boy are they unprepared for life. I bought my first used car at 17, with no help from my parents, and moved myself into my college dorm room, found my two college apartments, found 2nd hand furniture, etc. etc. on my own. How times have changed in 35 years!
16
Parenting is tough. I worry about my son (age 21) all the time. I don't think he worries much himself. I pay for his tuition, rent, and cell phone. I'm hoping that when he graduates from college this year he will become financially independent. There are no guarantees about this. He will have no debt and a degree but he still has no job. I vet his job applications and give advice when requested. I still worry about his future. I am not going to throw him out on the street because "it will be good for him". I will support him financially until he becomes independent. I hope that is soon. Isn't that what parenting is all about?
11
Hi David,
As a kid who figured it all out with a little more support than extra, yes, this is what parenting is all about. I consider my parents some of my best friends, and when they need my assistance these days, and in the future. I will go out of my way to make sure they have clean sheets, doctors appointments, and oatmeal with pecans and berries. That is what FAMILY is all about.
13
@David R yes, parenting is tough. You could share stories with my father, age 90 this year, about the wisdom of so much financial help. He's still supporting 2 of my siblings who are incapable of earning a living. I finally (thankfully) escaped the good intentions after living through chronic depression and crippling inertia. It's hard to have self-esteem and motivation when everything is done for you.
7
@David R
It's an interesting balance between help and enabling. Do you support him financially while he works part time to pay for playtime; indefinitely? Do you put a limit on job hunting time? Do you supply emergency funds for a few years.
There are some kids that do need the tough love of throwing them out. That's the time that you are there with the rice and beans, spend time with them, get them to counselling if they will go; if it gets really bad give them the camping equipment. (not in the Canadian winter)
If your kid has gone through college, I doubt you'll be faced with drastic measures. 21 is young, 28 is not.
3
If colleges don't want parents involved they shouldn't force them to provide their financial means in order to qualify for loans and grants and scholarships. I was in no position to pay for my daughter's tuition. She paid off most of it herself by attending a cheap school, but they used my income to disqualify her from many types of aid. If you ask people to pay then why shouldn't parents be involved.
25
I guess everyone was nodding in agreement, promising to take a step back, until they read the last line.
2
Or maybe it is one sign, among others, that the United States is in a further stage of maturation, even though we see these actions as a negative development: Take more ancient cultures, such as Italy where I reside, or imperial Russia, or any European bourgeois society of the past. Desiring your children an advantage is about the most normal reflex a parent could have had; it was always about money and status and continuity. Only now support, financial and otherwise, is viewed by the parent as a child's essential tool of survival.
Our country was truly unique in its dogma, which at a certain post-war moment held some truth: that hard work could reap great gifts, that competition was fairer by other standards, that fending for yourself was not only expected, but would have a good outcome.
The system has aged, its capitalistic modus operandi corrupted and contorted, and we have adapted. Perhaps we should not put such blame on parents who have acted just as many have centuries before them.
9
In my opinion, the issue is not whether or not parents should be overly involved or not. The question is whether or not people should continue to cope with or try to adapt to the systemic issues in this nation (high cost of housing/education/health care, unreasonable levels of competition and anxiety caused by this, news media that spreads the anxiety and entertainment that reinforces this, etc.) or simply move to places in the world with cultures and value systems that are more conducive to living healthy, balanced lives.
14
Here in California it’s a dog-eat-dog world getting into decent colleges. Every thing about getting into a decent school has gotten ridiculous. It’s no longer ‘Where are you going?’, it’s ‘What UC have you gotten into?’.
I signed my kids up to one-on-one SAT prep just to keep the playing field as level as possible. (And, yes, I looked around, found a decent prep org, signed them up and paid for it.)
Getting by with anything other than at least a bachelor’s degree is looked at as failure to most parents. There isn’t any vocational training in high school any more. It’s college or nothing.
With that much at stake, it’s no wonder parents go off the deep end. There’s little room for error here.
Having said that, my kids make their own doctor’s appointments (usually with my advice), call me when their relationships are failing. But they can also bring their cars in for service, check the oil, put gas in it, and change a tire. In this regard, I’m raising my kids pretty much the same way I was raised.
Years ago, when I went home on some weekends to visit and do laundry (even when working full time) my mom would slip me a $20 to cover gas because ‘no one should spend money visiting their patents’.
Parenting is messy. Parenting is unforgiving (to patents). I don’t think it’s changed that much. But wackadoos will always take things too far.
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
18
Reading these comments is disheartening. So much judgment! Not everybody has to do things exactly the same way as you do. Obviously there are some things that mostly everyone can agree on - cheating and bribery is unacceptable, calling a child’s boss is embarrassingly wrong. But there’s much middle ground that reflects different family dynamics.
And oh yeah, if you went to college in the 20th century, especially in the 60s and 70s, don’t use yourself as an example of financial independence at the age of 18. It’s irrelevant to today’s world.
47
I used to remind myself that those in their early 20 year olds flew bombers and managed ships at sea. Others had
5
In other words, Americans are becoming more Italian.
13
Help me, mommy. I have fallen and I can’t get up.
6
This isn’t new.
I founded a business - NeedAMom - in 2017. "When you need a mom, just not YOUR mom." I've had clients from all over the world and, for the most part, with real problems. I was contracted to write a book proposal "Tips for Parents of Young Adults." I did it reluctantly (and highlighted many of these issues which I believe have more to do with the parents than their children). I continue to believe it should be a very very short book. One page. "If you have to ask yourself, should I butt into my chlid's life or should I butt out, the answer is almost always, butt out." Why give them wings if you're not ready to let them fly? And if you don't give them wings, well, that's cannibalism.
16
@Nina Keneally okay...
Not to beg the obvious but there’s a difference between being close to your kids, encouragement, and stifling. Sorry if peeps don’t know the difference. Us Jewish parents have always helped our kids and expected intellect. But only an insecure idiot would bribe a coach.
Those parents had wealth but were very insecure as to their true deservedness in the intellectual world and were kicking the crap off their shoes and stealing the status of a degree. SAD. Why not just print a fake degree?
13
I talk with friends about jobs, money, relationships, etc. I would certainly help a friend get a job, or get through a medical problem, and I would cheer them on if they were taking tests or facing other challenges. I stay in close contact with good friends via text and email. Do this with friends but not kids?
I think treating adult children like you treat good friends is a good guide to where to draw the line. I certainly would not call a friend's employer or teacher!
On the other hand, I would lend financial support to a child under certain circumstances, but probably not to a friend.
I love the closeness with my 20-something children. I see it as giving them the security they need to be brave and bold and resilient out in the world.
18
I wish my parents gave me and my siblings a leg up. we were so unprepared for what was to come: jobs, dating, just how to manage life. we are all college educated thru our own means. i will not go into details but we made it and survived. i have a close relationship with my child. i did not have financial means to help her but i feel that she us who she is because we did it together. she has her mba and a very good position. maybe it was the time that i grew up, i am in my 60's. but it is still a bone of contention, how little our parents gave us, and i don't mean money.
19
I’m in my 40’s and still happily ask my mom for relationship advice. I’m not proud of it, per se, but I’m certainly not ashamed of it either.
11
Parents and kids being close is good and a fine thing. But parents trying to smooth over their kid’s life is only going to hurt them. If you have a friend who teaches middle school or high school, ask them what they think about how parents have changed.
10
Keeping the strivers down..... by embarrassing them for working together as families to give the next generation a leg up in our hostile, winner takes all America.
Notice how the commentariat isn’t as pleased with this attitude as it commonly was even 3 years ago? Note the increase in comments defending the families, even when only the most ludicrous helicopter neurotics are used as examples (again and again) in the articles?
Perhaps the Times should ease back on its upper class effort to humiliate its readers into wrecking their kids’ futures with bogus “tough love”. The readership doesn’t seem to like it anymore. It’s almost like we’ve noticed only the suckers are falling for it.
13
There are plenty of parents out there trying to find a balance. Normal people trying to raise gracious kids. Please get off the ‘In America’ BS..lots of kids in Australia, NZ, and the UK and Europe live at home while they go to college, accept their parents helping them financially if they can and wow even talk to their parents about social issues and mental conditions. Kids need guidance not someone to fight their battles for them.
21
So glad I'm not a high school teacher at a magnet high school anymore! The parents at the school were the crazy helicopter parents the article talks about. Their crazed whining had the ears of our administration because administration is incompetent and don't really support teachers. The result? Teachers who had administration breathing down their necks for no reason. I literally
had screaming parents telling me "why isn't their extra credit?"" Why did they get a zero for late assignment? and the list goes on. Oh one more thing, these parents really know how to game the system. So many parents asked for totally bogus accommodations for their kids. You know because little Suzy needs extra time to take the test....because she is nervous on test day. Yeah, it's really that bad. Yes, everyone benefits from extra time on test day! Tests are inherently stressful! There was no reason for the accommodation, but we, teachers, had to accommodate. Sad that generation Z is going to so unprepared for reality and have so many mental health issues.
19
@p.a. You left out the lobbying to get the tough courses thrown out...little Suzy can't handle Calculus or AP Physics C, so of course it shouldn't be offered to the young men and threaten her val or sal status.
Also left out the disparate impact seating...after staff children and urms are seated, no room for the serious students in whats left of the honors classes.
No need to compete if the real competitors aren't in the gpa boosting classes.
“It’s not what you do for your children, but what you have taught them to do for themselves, that will make them successful human beings.”
– Ann Landers
33
"Bribing SAT proctors. Fabricating students’ athletic credentials. Paying off college officials. ... on the extreme end of the continuum: parents’ willingness to do anything it takes to help their grown children succeed." What a ridiculous thing to say! Not all parents are so messed up to bribe and fabricate records and still think they are helping their children. Some children may not let their parents do that. Don't scapegoat parenting for criminal behavior.
2
I think these data would make more sense once we have similar data from the past, say around 1930s and 1970s, to compare with.
5
I didn’t have help from my parents once I left for college. I wish I’d had a little help. My parents were not well off and were both emotionally unstable. I can recall being in college worrying about my 3 younger siblings- were they ok, did they have enough to eat, etc. I thought I was ok because I only had to look after myself, but in reality, it was a struggle just to do that. I do think those worries and lack of financial and emotional support were a disadvantage. I saw how my friends received care packages, money, food, clothing. I had no safety net. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. I was envious of those who had it—still am—but I can’t begrudge it. I have 3 kids of my own now and try my best to let them know they’re not alone in the world while giving them opportunities to gain independence and confidence. I think cutting the cord at age 18 or even 25 is a kind of neglect.
36
Same here. My mother died when I was 16 and my father was emotionally distant. I can’t help but envy the close, supportive family relationships displayed in this article. Despite the lack of support I have succeeded in life but I was fortunate to come of age (1970s) when it was so much easier to mature into adulthood, at least financially.
2
Once the parental helicopter lifts off the ground, does it ever land again ? Apparently not. Parents I know don't just support their children in difficult times: they can tell me exactly where their children will be next weekend, every weekend. Their 'kids' are now over 30.
What happens to these permanently-supervised 'kids' have to deal with the inevitable: the death of a parent ?
11
Or the parents age and need their kids’ support? Hopefully they will be there for them.
Helping an 18-year old financially and helping a 28-year old or even 25-year old are two very different things. A majority of parents support or help to support their kids while they are in college. And why shouldn’t we, if we can afford it. This 10-year span distorts the picture.
34
Parenting never stops regardless of the children's ages. It just morphs into different ways. Getting on your 30 something occasionally about opening up a 401k, if offered, is one thing (it worked!). But showing up with the kid at his or her job interview? That sounds like the time when Mom or Dad wanted to "hang" for a bit with their teen kids' friends.
A parent has the right to, say, ask about a child's long term partner relationship re "the next steps". But no pushing. It can be frustrating if any of the kids live out of town, but it's certainly easier on them. And, depending on their job and known financial situation, it may not hurt to ask if the kid "needs a little help"; if you can afford to it! Of course when visit come after some months, the "serious talk" time(s) go longer and, I and my friends admit, the parent prying and suggestion offering are higher in volume than if they were in the same town. I've learned to think carefully as to how and what I want to ask and say, before and during those kinds of talks.
Most of us have 25-40 years on our children and those years of experience can and should make us all the wiser. The kids know or at last feel this since their days of "You don't understand!" angst are behind them. Just listen and respect their adulthood, acquired knowledge and growing wisdom.
6
My husband and I have spent about 60 years in Austin, attending, teaching at and sending a son to study at the University of Texas. If parents don't start letting go and teaching their children how to succeed, beginning at age 3 years, they have done their child a disservice and perhaps damaged their opportunities for the rest of their life.
A student of any achievement level will succeed based on basic life skills, such as setting a wake up alarm, getting to class every day, taking adequate notes, reviewing class notes and making an effort in labs and during exams. Cheating will not help, because, without the basic foundation skills, the student cannot remember enough to move upward significantly.
Moving away from my experience teaching labs and classes, I have also had an opportunity to watch a group of "trust babies" for over 50 years now. Many of them come from families involved in Texas' oil and gas exploration and production in the 50's and 60's. The money enabled them to go to college, but they could never find a passion to study and succeed. They never found a desire to work for living, because their trust income allowed them to buy a house and car and do what they wished in the 70's and 80's. Today, they are in their late 60's and 70's and their trust payments only cover property tax and Medicare insurance payments..... they have little left over for clothes or car payments. Their lives are shrinking and they are not really old yet.
25
Your comment shows that even if one is lucky enough to be a trust fund baby he or she won’t have the knowledge or discipline to make that money last a lifetime.
1
These are a wide range of issues that some seems like normal parenting vs. unethical/overstepping. I honestly don't understand why so many people are outraged when parents help adult children financially. Yes they shouldn't spoil them or do it to their own financial detriment, but if you have a responsible and well adjusted child why is it a crime to help them get on their feet? My parents paid for my college and gave me $1600 towards my first new car. It really helps to get a leg up during those early adult years. An occasional $100 here or there made a difference of PB&J or not that week. I am very grateful for their generosity and will certainly do whatever I can to make my offspring's life just a little bit easier. What is your money good for if you can't spend on the ones you love?
29
@Christine M. There's almost no way to buy an apartment in Israel without parental help. Everybody does it, and this is big money. Well-to-do parents feel like they "made it" if they can buy apartments to all their kids. Most parents are in touch with their adult children on a permanent basis. Most parents help their student kids with money and sometimes with papers, etc. But coming to work interviews with their children, or contacting university professors? - No. Beyond the pale.
5
@Christine M
I totally agree. My parents have helped me when times got rough. We are trying hard to get our kids through college without major debt; and I we will help pay for various things beyond college as well.
There is a difference between families providing help and support in times of need; and enabling unhealthy dependence. The hard part is to know the difference.
7
I was put on a bus at the Port Authority Bus Terminal when I was 18 to take an all-night ride to the NY State College of Fredonia - which required a transfer in Buffalo at 7 a.m. in the morning. When I arrived at the college, I was on my own. Although I don't recommend this type of 'cutting the cord', the pendulum has swung in a horribly extreme direction. These kids don't know how to do ANYTHING for themselves! Please note: I have 2 twenty-somethings who are doing well and I don't take that for granted at all. We love them but we need to step back. As the article noted: todays young people "... are less self-reliant and more likely to face anxiety or depression."
16
Engaging in surveys and convoluting the "news element" is the modern version of research. While there is objection to firms using data elicited from smart device transactions (and suggestions the collector should compensate for the "news"), there seems no similar consideration for survey collected "news". (The degree of consent may be unequal.)
After listing the numerical results to the question posed, there follows the statement: "children of this generation are as likely as not to be less prosperous than their parents."
Now what in the heck does "less" and "prosperous" mean?
Most of this generation of children are more obese than their parents. These are not missing their meals! Most of this generation of children pass more idle on computer gaming than their parents. Have these less free time to squander? Most of this generation are more fussy about the jobs and employment conditions that suit them than had been their parents. Why rush into a job for the sake of the unemployment statistic?
Leonhardt in his Dec. 8, 2016 writes about the course of the "American Dream". Has it all a matter of money...the nation's inhabitants anguished from the prospect for growing bank accounts. No word on just how the economy is devising
its wealth and its jobs. The medical industry grows from all manner of excesses and vices. (Hardly from aging.) The private security forces grow from all manner of needed safety. The celebrity and pageant industries grow from all manner of vanities. Etc.
1
@Wolfgang Price This is a NY time artcile not a RAND report, but point taken. There need to be some more specifics listed to back up some of the claims - if they looked it up in credible research, why not cite it?
3
So widening inequality is driving widening the inequality even further by throwing your money around. Got it.
"The factors driving most parents, researchers say, are widening inequality, the growing importance of a college degree, and the fact that for the first time, children of this generation are as likely as not to be less prosperous than their parents.
“It’s the same thing but on a much different level,” said Laura Hamilton, author of “Parenting to a Degree: How Family Matters for College and Beyond” and a sociologist at the University of California, Merced. “It’s really hard for parents to understand why you wouldn’t do anything you could do to assist your children. If you have the influence, the connections and the money, it’s not surprising to me that the parents made these choices.”
3
No wonder this generation thought it necessary to invent a term (adulting) for dealing with what everyone previously considered to be simply the responsibilities of everyday life.
6
If you are a parent, your children give purpose and meaning to your life. But they aren't here for the purpose of giving purpose and meaning to your life.
16
A half century, BA History, first job Peace Corps Volunteer, of hiring/grants/fellowship experience and I can not imagine an applicant who came to the interview with a parent* making it to the short list, let alone being hired.
* unless an adult needed to help re a special need outside of the actual interview.
Non Parental interviewers et al, please don't pander to these parents. Overseas the daughter of a World Bank official didn't make it to short last after her interview. For sake of international relations, I invited the enraged father to lunch as my guest. After establishing some relationship, he said his daughter said that this opportunity was the most important thing in her life. I asked him, with great respect, that if it were her top priority why didn't she, not he, call me to ask why she wasn't selected? After the shock, he totally agreed. Thanked me for this eye opener.
14
Just a couple of generations ago, before birth control, parents usually had 3 to 10 to sometimes more children in a family. Parents did not have the time, money or inclination to hover over each of them. Kids too were expected to work. But with modern families consisting of one or two children, parents have time and money to dote on each little princess and prince, many of whom have turned out to be selfish, narcisstic social media legends in their own minds. Real self confidence comes from overcoming challenges, not from having everything handed to you. No wonder these kids face anxiety if Mom or Dad is not around.
8
My brother and I both graduated from the same college in the same year, 1963. Graduation gift from parents, we both got large suitcases.
No subtle hint there, we knew we were on our own from that day forward.
14
You can't just blame the parents for this one. Here in America, it is expected that parents foot the bill for their ADULT child's college costs. It is virtually impossible to get financial aid without your parent's tax data. Even if your parents refuse to give you one dime after you turn 18, colleges still base any financial aid you might get on their income.
I find it ironic that colleges won't share student information with parents because the students are adults, but would never consider entertaining the fact that parents should not be required to foot the ENTIRE bill.
37
@Lisa in NE
Yes, and while there is a limit to how much students can borrow, the balance is put to the parents with Parent Plus loans. After 3 kids we have a balance the size of a mortgage when we should be saving for retirement.
3
Universities follow a federal privacy law. Change the law or get your adult child to sign a waiver. But honestly, if you need a waiver to see your student's grades, you should be asking why junior is scared to tell you the truth.
3
Mathematically impossible for each generation to do better than the parents. Yes to love, education, time and opportunity. No to excess. Where has that gotten us?
Climate change is here - we need thoughtful, caring adults to think differently. American already have the biggest homes, most cars and high rates of depression.
The American dream needs a revamp. I am betting on the millenials.
6
@kat perkins; Yes, and lets not forget US is number 1 in infant mortality when compared to other industrialized countries and our life expectancy is lower. Our public health issues are a CRISIS.
6
Of course the economics are different now. There is no doubt it is much harder to get a start nowadays. The cost of living in the SF Bay Area is insane. In college I roofed houses on the side with a friend every weekend and some weekdays including holidays and took a full load of courses. I'm now 57 and when I was 24 my father, an electrician, died. My mother had a job changing linen in a convalescent home. I was halfway through paramedic school post college. I worked 80 hours a week as a paramedic for $4.25/hr and gave my mom most of the $600.00 I earned every two weeks so we wouldn't lose the house. All I did was sleep and work for almost six years before I got the job I really wanted. I realized very quickly it was up to me. No one could help me. The morning my dad died I felt like an adult. Sometimes that's what it takes to get your you-know-what together. Far be it from me to wish anything like that on anyone else but you do no favors helping out too much. Let them feel the water, not drown.
28
@Bill D
" Let them feel the water, not drown."
That's great Bill. So true. Thank you
It's as good as "half a bubble off plumb" "as common as hen's teeth" "running around like a chicken with your head cut off"
Not entirely unrelated...whatever happened to giving kids an allowance? Today, nearly every young person gets a credit card. I don’t think It is possible to learn financial responsibility if you don’t have your own cash which you learn to budget, because when it runs out, you do without until the next “paycheck.”
7
And here it is: The Times piece that will make wealthy families feel better about gaming the college admissions system. I mean, hey, “it’s the same thing but on a much different level.”
2
the helicopter parents do not HELP their own kids. they might just as well take a bat and break their legs. they think that they love their kids, whereas they are really trying to boost their own ego. they want to show their friends that they have been good parents, but do not trust their own kids that they can perform on their own.
parents need to trust their own kids to learn and be responsible and this starts when the kids are young and the parent lets them advance slowly.
8
I came of age in the mid 1980s. My parents paid my tuition, reminded me to make my plane reservations and gave me an allowance (for which I was very grateful). It was pretty much the same deal that my grandparents had provided my mother. My husband, whose parents were less prosperous, lived at home after he graduated and didn't move out until he moved in with me. He wasn't the only person at my first job who was still living with his parents after college. Many people didn't move out until they got married.
My point is that the examples cited in the survey aren't particularly shocking or new. If you look at the survey, only a tiny fraction of the parents are overstepping by getting involved in their kids' jobs or course work.
8
@Spaypets
Yes, this isn’t new. Probably if we looked at US history from the colonial period to the present, the time between 1940 and 1980, when parents had little to do with admissions, deadline reminders, etc., and children went off to college to live or established their own households early, was an aberration. In the colonial period, it was common for parents, usually farmers, to establish careers for a couple of sons by sending them to school or apprenticing them, and one son remained at home to farm and take care of the parents as they aged. The daughters stayed home until married off, sometimes with a dowry. There has to be some reasonable ground between parents saying goodbye and good riddance at age 18 and being over involved in the manner described in these articles about helicoptering. Disengaging completely at age 18 is not healthy either.
13
Going to a child's job interview, or arguing on their behalf for a raise is NEVER acceptable. If anything, it demonstrates the failure of parents to help their children become adults.
30
OK. While I agree that there is a lot of over-parenting, or helicopter parenting, a number of the things I see listed are neither new, or necessarily unusual, or even bad.
Did my parents ever do my work for me? No. Never. Ever. They DID at times review it, to find spelling mistakes, make comments on grammar, and other things, before making me go and do it again, And again. Until I got it right. They wanted me to understand what it took to do things with care, and to follow through. This is NOT bad lesson to teach your kids.
When I didn't do it, as I got older, they let me fail, and suffer the consequences.
I still go to my parents for guidance in areas, especially if it was something they did as a profession. Why not? I would go to a friend too. Or a sibling.
That's different than paying someone to cheat, or monitoring every minute of your child's time.
20
I have a suggestion for helicopter parents and their needy semi- adult (not grown up) off-spring.
ENLIST! Yes, in some branch of the military. There you learn all those habits of living that will serve you well in real life.
I only half joke that all kids go to boot camp before entering first grade. It makes them educable.
6
Ms. Hamilton's glib comment “It’s not like in 1970 when you could screw around a little because every extra year of college didn’t cost you an arm and a leg and not graduating wasn’t incredibly risky” is not at all accurate. In 1970, my freshman year, tuition alone was $2,350. A new mid-sized car cost $1,950. So with room and board, college was the price of two mid-sized cars - not very different from today.
Not graduating or dropping out was incredibly risky - you lost your student deferment and shipped out to Vietnam.
As for student debt, I graduated (multiple degrees) with the equivalent of $130,000 in today's dollars. For my 50th birthday, I paid off the balance, even though I could stretch it out some more.
The bottom line is that it was just as hard for us and our parents back then.
14
I strongly disagree. In the 70s, it was possible to earn a significant amount of one's living expenses and tuition through working. That is not true today.
10
@West coast Agree. I started out at one of the California State universities, where tuition was $92/semester and transferred to UCLA, where it was $210/quarter. I was able to pay my way through four years of college with my own earnings, although my mother did throw in $100 now and then when things got really tight (for which I was very grateful).
A more interesting article would have been the children who actually made it on their own and became successful.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35133922-educated
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38532119-heartland
5
What’s a bigger scandal, bribing admissions offices or the US Government?
4
@Frank
A perfect question!
Admissions officers are still answerable to the law, where the federal govenment potentates can just laugh, sneer, turn around, and go about their business.
5
I don't have a problem with paying for my kids' college room and board. My parents paid for all four daughters to attend college. We worked college jobs to make money for incidentals. Once we graduated we were financially on our own.
I wouldn't offer relationship advice unless asked.
I've set up company tours for college grads, but it's up to them to do the work to land a job/internship.
The rest of these are just crazy overstepping.
5
I graduated from a top tier public university in 2008 right when the financial crisis hit. My parents paid my rent in college, paid my tuition and gave me career advice but that was it. My parents essentially said, we are paying for your college so you're going to get a practical/employable degree. I didn't like it at the time but guess what?
I know other people who got no help at all from their parents who went to the same university as I did (or even more top tier) but they struggled to pay their tuition, rent and picked liberal arts majors. Those people were virtually unemployable after college working minimum wage jobs in one of the most expensive areas in the country. 10 years later, their careers have still not taken off and guess what they also have a boatload of debt to go with their minimum wage jobs and have left the bay area because it's ok to live with roommates in your 20s but in your 30s it's not quite so great. I am married with a baby on the way and living a very comfortable life.
I think it is normal to want to give your child the tools to succeed in today's tough economy. Nowadays, a minimum wage job will not allow kids to live a middle class lifestyle anymore and carrying student debt when you come out of college can be crippling.
11
As a 26-year-old, I can tell you that most of us don't want to be financially tied to our parents. Unfortunately, I have an expensive medical condition and that means I can either pay my medical bills or my student loans, but not both. (I'm frugal- I don't own a car or eat out.) So my parents end up helping me out, and I feel horrible about it. Not because they make me feel horrible about it, but because I always expected to be financially independent by this age and I feel guilty that my parents are getting ready to retire yet are still spending money on me.
As far as romantic advice, job advice, etc. That kind of thing has brought me and my parents closer. They know more about that stuff than I do, so why wouldn't I go to them for advice? And that close relationship has made me more inclined to keep my parents close to me as they grow older. I want them to live with or near me as I have/raise kids because I want them to be a part of my kids' lives and I want them to be well taken care of as they get older.
I would highly recommend anyone my age read "Being Mortal" by Atul Gawande if they have aging parents, even if their parents aren't "old." It really gives you some perspective on how your parents may be feeling about getting older.
28
@Mackenzie
What a wonderful thing to point out — the “helicoptering” can happen at the other end of life too. And the level of care and interference in our elderly parents’ lives is as tricky as the level of care and interference in adult children’s lives. But total disengagement is not right in either case. Some level of care is right.
10
My kids are still a decade away from adulthood so I watch friends and colleagues with older kids.
Financial support is one thing but when it comes to emotional independence and self-reliance technology cannot be understated.
Technology seems result in some parents being in constant communication with their kids, which then naturally leads itself to more involvement in their lives.
I know a handful of parents who routinely track their kids via phone as they go about their day. Adult children. Tracking their ever move.
PUT. DOWN. THE. PHONES.
7
In high school, my parents provided me with a car. I used it strictly for school & school-related activities. I attended a magnet program in a public school, & had access to a free college level education. I had the privilege of not having to get a job during high school, as my parents insisted that "school was my only job". I also had the privilege of having a guidance counselor dedicated to the small cohort of students attending the magnet program. I hold great admiration for those students today who hold down a part-time job and attend school. I don't think I could have done both.
However, my parents never utilized any kind of test prep services for me when it came to the SAT and ACT. I had to go it on my own. I wrote my own college application essays. No one helped me write them. I had no expectation that anyone would. It was my essay, after all. I spent the summer of my junior year completing them.
I am so grateful that in college, my father intervened when my best friend/roommate and I had a fight. He told each of us (without our knowledge!) that the other did not want to fight anymore. That ended the fight as he helped us realize our friendship was stronger than whatever we were arguing about.
I am proud to know it was my hard work, combined with my parents' financial and emotional support, that ultimately led to my college degree.
I feel that anyone who has a strong work ethic and desire to do so should be given a fair chance to attend college.
13
In high school, my parents provided me with a car. I used it strictly for school & school-related activities. I attended a magnet program in a public school, & had access to a free college level education. I had the privilege of not having to get a job during high school, as my parents insisted that "school was my only job". I also had the privilege of having a guidance counselor dedicated to the small cohort of students attending the magnet program. I hold great admiration for those students today who hold down a part-time job and attend school. I don't think I could have done both.
However, my parents never utilized any kind of test prep services for me when it came to the SAT and ACT. I had to go it on my own. I wrote my own college application essays. No one helped me write them. I had no expectation that anyone would. It was my essay, after all. I spent the summer of my junior year completing them.
I am so grateful that in college, my father intervened when my best friend/roommate and I had a fight. He told each of us (without our knowledge!) that the other did not want to fight anymore. That ended the fight as he helped us realize our friendship was stronger than whatever we were arguing about.
I am proud to know it was my hard work, combined with my parents' financial and emotional support, that ultimately led to my college degree.
I feel that anyone who has a strong work ethic and desire to do so should be given a fair chance to attend college.
1
As this article points out, there are both costs and benefits to the way parenting takes place today. During the Boomer and GenX years, Americans were more affluent, and young adults had better financial prospects. That often meant separating from parents and family to a degree that almost could be called estrangement: Call mom once a month, split Christmas between your folks and the in-laws.
Families today are actually more like they were during the Greatest Generation. Back then, grown children stayed close to their parents, and houses were peopled by multi-generational families. Grandma and grandpa lived at home, not in a nursing home. They helped look after the kids. Grown children lived at home (especially young women) until they had accumulated enough savings to buy a home of their home. Extended family and friends lived nearby and helped look after children. Sunday meant gathering at mom and dad's for a home cooked dinner. Asking mom and dad for advice was more the norm than the exception.
The return of some of these traditional aspects of family confers many benefits and advantages. Without closer family ties, young families today would be completely overwhelmed. Too many of us struggle to achieve "work-life balance", which basically means giving 100% to our careers and 100% to our families. We can't do it alone, especially given the dearth of good paying jobs and the astronomical cost of childcare and education.
20
I have had a few friends visit with their high school age children looking at colleges in the Boston area. I was struck that one child was afraid to take the subway two stops by herself around 10 PM to return to my home after meeting friends. She made her father go meet her.
I was completely baffled.
She had grown up in the Bay Area, so it was not a lack of understanding of how a subway system worked. She just did not want to have to ride by herself. Yet, here she was looking at colleges 3000 miles and three time zones away from home.
My college was paid for by a combination of scholarships, my parents, student loans, and work study money. Graduate school in the sciences pays a stipend sufficient to live on if you are frugal. Occasionally, when I would lament that my car needed a repair or there was some other big expense, a check for a few hundred dollars would show up from my parents. I was incredibly thankful, but it is not something I ever would have asked for.
I know that college loans are higher and jobs that pay well are harder to get. What shocks me is the son of my boss (with no school loans) who makes $200K per year at a law firm got money from his parents to buy a house. A friend had to put off retirement as an ICU doctor as his children were still on the house payroll into their 30s. Personally, I wonder how the children of such people can have no pride, but I guess it is a matter of expectations on both sides.
4
As a result of a divorce settlement (way back in 1969), my father was determined to be responsible for our college tuition. He told me he would pay for any school I could get into. I chose a small, private school one state away, that had a strong teaching program. When I started, in 1971, the tuition, room and board was $880/semester, while a state school was around $300. By the time I graduated in 1975, tuition, room and board was $1600/semester.
The day I graduated, Dad told me I was "on my own" from then on. I worked the summer at a fast food place, moved to the city in the fall, couch-surfed with a friend, and got a job at a department store. I struggled, but got my own place and began figuring it out.
In my 30s, I went back to school to pursue a Master's degree at night, while working. I paid for grad school in the 90s with credit cards that I paid off after several years.
I didn't get a penny for anything from my dad--who was otherwise very supportive of what I was doing--until I was well into my 40s and needed $2000 dollars to cover closing costs when buying my first house. The terms? I had to pay it back within 2 months, which I did. One of my brothers was astonished that I'd even asked him for that money (though he could well afford it).
Today, I'm grateful. I learned to live within my means and secured my own retirement. College debt students have now is stunning, but the smart money is to get pre-requisites covered at a CC and finish at a State school.
7
@Buddhabelle If I were to do things again, I would have gone to CC for 2 years and then transferred to a state school or private 4-year to save money and avoid loans. The social group I was in in high school put so much stress on going to good colleges (there were kids who went to Harvard, Duke, Amherst, etc. from my social group) that I thought I could only go to an expensive 4-year school. I regret that now, but I couldn't think outside that box as a 17-year-old.
4
@Mackenzie
I get it.
As a high school International Baccalaureate English teacher at a very competitive school, I would tell kids that it mattered less where they got their undergraduate degree than it did their graduate degree (as most of those kids were heading for advanced degrees). Their eyes rolled, for sure, as the culture there was Ivy League/Stanford or bust.
There was so much peer pressure to attend those schools that it broke my heart. A few attempted suicide when they didn't get into their "reach" school--in spite of their perfection in everything, it wasn't enough or they just weren't what that school was looking for in building their freshman class.
I never experienced that kind of pressure, thank God. I took my SATs only once (after staying up most of the night taking care of a sick friend) and had good grades. I blanket-applied to State schools and the private school, got into all and went to the private school, where I received a solid undergrad education and made life-long friends.
1
The Baby Boomers. They are the Grandparents of today who sadly see the way it was for them is not the way it is now for their Millennial grandchildren. Looking back, those who grew up in the post-WWII decades are but emblematic of an American era that has eroded over time. The days when this country was identified by its stabile, thriving middle class life. When it was largely taken for granted that we'd have lives as good if not better than our parents. High school graduation, now THAT marked a celebratory turning point on the road to independence from the family home, a rite of passage into the adult world. According to this article, apparently America is now full of 20-somethings dependent on their parents in the role of personal assistant, keeping their appointment books up to date and in general keeping their lives in order. What does this kind of dynamic tell us what the future holds for this country when the up and coming generation not only depends on the benefits of emotional and financial support from family but also full time life management? What it describes are major societal deficiencies. A country lacking the support systems, the operational focus, the opportunities that encourage and enable independent achievement. It's the infantilization of America. That's what.
7
@Rose Okragly
Rose, high schools are a late-nineteenth, early twentieth century invention. When talking about American eras and expectations, please get a bigger perspective. As other commenters have pointed out, prior to the post-WWII era, parents and children were closer and more interdependent, and we are just returning to that prior time. It doesn’t have to be viewed as infantilization.
@Human being
In earlier times, children were already working in their early teens to contribute to their families financially. My father, who grew up in the depression, recommended I read "Growing Up," by Russell Banks, who used to write for the NYT, because it was representative of his own childhood and youth. Family members, including preteens, worked in or outside the home. It was truly interdependent, not one generation coddling the next into what should be adulthood. Just as important, neighbors and members of the larger community helped each other, because most were in the same boat. My father helped support his mother and sister, both of whom also worked. I don't see the comparison between that and the children written about in this article.
2
The responsibility we (as parent, not the collective "we") is to provide our children with the tools to make good choices in their adult lives. They know we are available for advice or a shoulder to cry on.
I think part of the US issues of children not succeeding is that they don't know how to accept failure. A losing sports team as a kid gets you a participation trophy and that translates into not learning to lose.
Our kids participated in Speech & Debate in high school. One of the very best experiences ever. Critical thinking, writing cases, and learning to lose. Because they created successful cases, too, they know that succeeding requires effort.
6
Where I work, faculty used to meet with parents of first years.
I recall when it stopped: we were telling them bad things such as (my version) "I will let your child stumble but not fall; it is good for them." I've also said "the first C is a teacher" and similar.
But parents who see their darlings as groomed-for-the-right -college (or bribed into college) investments don't want that sort of truth. They'd rather hover--some phone to wake the young ones up in the morning for class!
This contributes to emotionally dysfunctional 20-somethings. I've known several who have nervous breakdowns in college at the first adversity or who lose their first jobs after graduation, because of awful time-management skills. The parents, of course, try to get the employer to rehire their little project children, to no avail.
Also I've known so many young people who learn to walk after a stumble, who go on to start companies and who are eager to change the world for the better. That keeps me in the game.
The real world, beyond the cocoon, is harsh. I tell students that, too.
5
My parents paid for each of their five children’s educations at a state university. And set us on our way. Nothing more but $20 in a birthday card.
My kids got it all growing up: private school educations, allowances, lessons, you name it. Graduating during the recession, they barely made enough to live on though they had both done well in college and were thought to have “ good jobs.”
So we supplemented their rent to the tune of $500/month and helped in other ways ( healthcare and cell phones). Happily, they broke free of us after they got on their feet after a few years.
It was the proudest day of their lives...and ours. Total independence brings a great degree of selfconfidence. It’s a wonderful thing to witness.
7
@It's About Time instead of immediately critiquing what I see as over-indulgent parenting (don't worry, I will. And good for your kids to break free!) let me ask you something. Did you do all that for your kids because of your parents' tougher love?
Drumroll, please, for my critique of your helicoptering: Healthcare I understand. Cell phones? Let them buy their own and pay for their own data. Service disconnected? Lesson learned, just as when I bounced my one and only check in college.
My parents' generation made us buy our own cars, too. They did help us (or outright pay for) college, but rent after? Allowances? Cars? Our own dime, and any allowance was part of a contract, in exchange for chores. In a crisis they were there, but not as my "friends." And I loved them dearly, then and now.
3
Fascinating, but a huge grain of salt: 18-22 year olds (of a certain class/privilege) are college students.
Should a college student be making their own doctor's appointments? Probably, but its not unthinkable that their parent (on whose insurance they're on since the kids could only work part time if students) would be making it.
We're definitely in a new territory but I just wish surveys of young people started at age 23 or clearly broke out full time students vs. workers. Otherwise we just get click-bait headlines where the data is frankly just murky.
11
@Arturo I don't know ANYONE my age (26) whose parent ever made a doctor's appointment for them after they turned 18. My pediatrician's office wouldn't even allow it because of privacy rules. I've heard this stuff about young adults not making their own doctor's appointments again and again and I'm just wondering where they're getting their info. I agree with you that the surveys should start at age 23. That would be more accurate. College kids are just high schoolers without their parents around.
3
@Arturo Thanks for adding "of a certain class/privilege" here. The last data I encountered showed that only 22% of that cohort in the US graduate from college. Lots more go but never finish (at least in 8 years).
The mass media, and TV shows like Girls, focus on the degree-seeking, over-parented, anxious, depressed, mostly white college kif obsessively, as if the other 78% are invisible.
Which, apparently, they are.
2
@Mackenzie "College kids are just high schoolers without their parents around."
I'm gonna use that line!
5
It’s the fear of how difficult life has become for the the average American. No real Living wages, wage stagnation, skyrocketing housing, education and healthcare costs. There is very little wiggle room for messing up. We have ruined high school and college for at least a generation. Stress, stress and more stress. Competition and money. It doesn’t have to be that way. Things were very different just 20 years ago.
20 years ago when I went to college it was cheaper by at least a factor of 10 or 20. Parents were less involved because there was less at stake. Kids could do things on their own if they had to. That’s not really possible today. I don’t think people would be doing these things if they didn’t feel trapped and fearful.
9
Well put. What I would like to add is that with all the competition and class climbing expected of kids and their parents, Americans have lost their sense of real values. Sharing, compassion, an ability to sometimes step aside or get involved for the sake of others, plain kindness.
Instead it's run run run, get there first, make the most. All you have to do these days is spend an hour on a (Los Angeles) freeway to see what's really happening to us.
6
I have done NONE of the list so far. Since, however, my children have ASKED me very occasionally for "advice on relationships," I have complied with these rare requests. Call me hopelessly loving.
Only in America would a national newspaper condemn a parent for not severing all emotional ties after age 18.
Oh, just adding: When friends ask me for occasional advice on relationships, I also thoughtfully comply.
Oh the horror.
14
I worked & paid my way through University. Lots of other kids partied & whatever, I didn't get that luxury, but then I choose to do without a lot of luxuries anyway. Just a waste of money. The dirty secret is that if you're going to University strictly for education purposes then any school will do. Post-graduate is where you might bother picking some institution over another, depending on what interest you're pursuing. I'm speaking from the perspective of applied science: for any kind of "classical" degree I honestly don't know what practical difference you'd get from choosing one institution over another. For example, one time my car got bashed and I had to take a cab a couple of times to classes (paid by insurance), and my cab driver admitted to expert knowledge of the campus because of his political science Master's degree. For that sort of major I wonder why anybody would bother with going to any school, an interested individual can self-study on their own just as well; no degree, but who cares about that. An uninterested individual has no chance of picking up any meaningful level of knowledge, no matter what the circumstance.
7
My daughter will attend Boston Univ this fall (on her own honest 1290 SAT I have to say). BU has a 2 day student orientation in the summer and those same 2 days there is parent orientation. Hey colleges, just tell me when and where to send the check! I will spend 2 days in Boston getting oriented to some cannolis, a Redsox game and a good Irish pub.
15
@MM
There is a great restaurant called Pier 6
Another is a Spanish restaurant at Faneuil Hall.
Fun times.
My nephew is a BC alum.
Successful finance guy at 29.
Great school.
The restaurants are owned by my 32 yr. old Surrey College cousin.
Did these kids have help from parents and grandparents financially.
You bet.
Family is family !
2
@MM
Actually, many parent orientations cover topics like financial aid and payment information for those footing the bill, what parents should and shouldn't do (or can't, according to privacy laws) and various other bureaucratic items of interest.
So I just made a dentist appointment for my nineteen year old daughter for when she is home for spring break next week - does that make me an intense parent? And I have never helped my college age kids with papers, test or homework but is it still OK to ask how they did on an exam or paper?
7
@Amy
At the end of my sophomore year in college, my father (who paid my tuition along with mom) casually noted, "Hey, I have yet to see a report card." I smiled and assured him I was doing fine. He left it at that because we were close and he knew his kids. I graduated magna cum laude.
Go ahead and ask. But you probably already have an idea.
4
Parents aren't doing this as much out of love as they are out of a feeling that their sons and daughters success is a reflection of their own success as a parent. Parents want to brag about their children's success to other parents. But, it's usually liberal parents who are like this. My parents are very conservative. They helped me pay for community college tuition and let me live at home rent free so long as I was a full time student. But, they didn't give me any money while I was in college, they didn't buy my books or pay my fees, or even let me borrow their cars. I bought my own car with my own money and the car insurance was in my name. I worked 2 jobs throughout college. When I graduated with my bachelors at 23, I got $1500 as a graduation gift. I found a job on my own and I moved out 3 months later. That was the last time I received any money from my parents and I haven't been back. That was over 20 years ago. I have remained a single man with no children. I have a younger sister who is married with 2 daughters. Her husband didn't go to college. They don't have much money. Since I have no children of my own, and since my parents helped me out when I was in college, I put up the money for my sister's daughters to receive the same education benefit I received from my parents. I thought paying that forward was the right thing to do, plus it gave me the peace of mind that my dad can't ever say that I owe him anything.
5
Wow, $1.2 million spent just to get accepted into a university... Could have spent about $100k of that on a reasonable school and invested the remiander in an index fund and the kid could live off the growth for the rest of her life. If you're going to spoil your kid, why not set them up for a leisurely life? After all, if working were so great, the rich wouldn't let the poor do so much of it.
13
Don't confuse the current scandal with helicopter parenting which is a problem in and of itself. This scandal has everything to do with the wealthy and how no rules apply to them. Is anyone to believe that Trump was selected by Penn on his merits? And he is not alone. But how is this different than the massive "contributions" to private institutions that result in special treatment of their children? None of the rules apply to the wealthy, none of them. There is always a ready supply of lawyers etc, to explain how it is not the rich guy's fault, it must be someone else's fault....
There is just no end to the number of areas of life in which this is the case. To conflate this with helicopter parenting is to suggest that everyone does this, they don't and they can not.
5
In this day and age it is often not possible for kids to manage financially without help from us parents. My 27 year old is a 7th grade teacher and would not be able to make ends meet given the appalling salary paid by school districts in AZ, so we help him out with housing. My 25 year old is just about to graduate medical school and we have also helped him so that he is not starting out his career with crippling debt and facing the next 10 years of residency and fellowship, earning a fraction of what he’s worth. Until society actually starts to value careers like these what else should we do?
13
@Suzanna Standring
The school year is only 9 months long. Your son can work a second job. He can work weekends and evenings. I was working weekends washing dishes at a restaurant when I was 14, during the school year. Why can't your 27 year old son?
8
@Suzanna Standring
There is a big difference between parents helping out adult kids who are working and parents who are supporting adult kids who are playing.
Your working adult kids will be able to support themselves and be responsible members of society when you are gone.
@Mark
My husband is a teacher. He spends weekends and evenings prepping for classes and grading. The summer is spent preparing curricula for the upcoming year.
1
Our job as parents is to raise our children to be self sufficient and to let them go when they are adults. The fact that so many parents are unable to cut them loose is a tacit admission that they failed to do their job.
6
I want my children to succeed- even at the expense of yours.
Of course, I hope it doesn't come to that, but if if did- mine first. And any parents of younger children out there are lying if they pretend otherwise. This is why schooling vouchers fail, why college admission is elite, and why every kid gets a post-secondary education (even if they are wholly unprepared/disinterested in it).
Why would anybody be surprised at parents doing almost anything they can for their children, even if it's ethically gray? I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying it's inevitable.
Progeny domination is the metric we're wired for, and also the one our culture values most, albeit in the sense that children are the singular investment worth your time and money (if you have them).
Perhaps if we were more honest about our selfish intentions for protecting our legacy, we could have an honest discussion about ethics and childrearing goals.
5
@Gideon Strazewski
1) it's not ethically gray. It's wrong.
2) it's far from inevitable
3) I'm so glad not everyone thinks like you (and, believe me, plenty of people don't)
12
I have 3 adult children and as a parent I don’t agree with what you said. I do not want my children to succeed in this life at the expense of others. Instead, I feel that now we’re heading into a time in human existence where our survival as a species will depend on us helping each other and caring about each other as much as possible. Things such as tribalism and protection of our legacies won’t help much if we essentially kill each other off (along with our planet) in order to make it to the top.
No one will know your kids or care about where they are in the “hierarchy” if there’s no one around they can flash their lifestyle to.
23
This brings spoiled to another level entirely. When my eldest child went to university in the UK, it was very clear that it was time to cut ties, i.e. enter adulthood with full responsibility. Not only do universities not contact parents about their children's performance or behavior, but the notion that a parent would try to intervene would be regarded as a ludicrous overstep, not to be tolerated with few exceptions such as severe mental health issues. Upon graduation, they are now fully autonomous and self supporting in a job.
1
@Rob Crawford Just so you don't get the wrong impression: US universities do *not* contact parents either--only in exceptions like severe mental issues--oh yeah, and fundraising. I have an 18 year old in university right now--even the bills go directly to him, not us. Whether some parents harangue the universities is another matter . . .
3
The question that should be asked is, "Whose life is it?" How much are these child-adults of these very involved parents allowed to chose for themselves? With at least one of the actresses indicted (Laughlin?) it seems that the kid is not only not elite college material, but probably not college material at all. In her u-tube video she says she doesn't like school, just wants to party, and probably won't participate much at all in the school part of college. It is, of course, disgusting that such a young person is taking a spot from an eager, but not wealthy/connected student. Still, the girl herself is begin done a disservice by her mother/parents. They should be helping her find HER place, not inserting her in the place they deem right for THEIR kid.
2
I attribute involved parents in young adults lives as evolution. Maybe the parents involved were most likely neglected, made mistakes, and don't want the same thing to happen to their adult kids.
I have no official proof of this, only personal observation, but how much of the tough love ethos is attributed to more strict religious households? Its seems the more worldy, more secular, less serious about religion type families are more hyper-controlling, involved in their adult kids' lives. I wonder if big time belief in god gives religious parents more confidence that god has a plan and the adult kids need to find their own path? Secular parents, however, deep down, see god as ruse and know it's dog-eat-dog war out there, no god swooping in to guide. There may be rich private religious school type familes nowadays that appear religious, but they are not really. They are more secular, more about money. Religion is just a means to a social end, not about god. I am not talking about those families. I am talking about real believers, the hardcore religious type families -- they set their adult kids loose, little help. Just thinking out loud. Probably wrong about it.
When you earn something on your own merits, it means more; something you learn as a very small child. A life skill that carries you through adulthood. It’s as true today as it was when I was in college more than 30 years ago. Sad that this is not being instilled in many of these young people by their parents.
1
The cutoff age of 18 for adulthood is arbitrary and is not supported by latest medical research. Adolescence may last all the way to 25 for many young adults. This article makes it sound like parents helping what essentially are still kids at 18 make the right choices is somehow abnormal and deviant. Parents have to let go at some point but onset of maturity varies by individual and is closer to 21-25 in most cases.
7
This article is really off base. Two generations ago, my mother grew up with her parents and grandparents. My father lived with his parents, grandparents and great-grandparents IN THE SAME HOUSE. They were ALL close. My mother was an Italian immigrant, but my father was the WASPiest of WASPS, his family having been here for 350 years.
Multi-generational families were the NORM. Being close to your extended family was typical. Helping financially across generations was absolutely normal. Family being all up in your business was right and good. This idea that children grew up and left the nest, and afforded everything on their own, and moved out, sometimes across the country, is absolutely something brand spanking new. It's not "normal," typical, and it's down right newfangled.
We don't know our own history!
We don't know anything about how parenting has has been done historically. Who is this promoting this idea about how thing OUGHT to be done? That's not how things have been done! EVER. Who are these folks to tell us how children ought to be raised? Or what's healthy?
No, you don't stop parenting because your kid turns 18. You don't. In fact, that's where it gets harder. You have to walk that fine line between your kids growing up and needing their own space, and them needing your guidance more than ever. They need you, but they don't want you. That's when parenting gets tough.
When parenting gets really tough? When your kid becomes disabled and gets divorced at 46.
10
End the unpaid internship exploitation of talented students and fewer students will be subsidized by their parents.
7
This article is a crock. Most of the results of the study are actually less than 15%, or even less than 10%. Yet it pretends that these are widespread practices.
It doesn't describe ages so that making a medical apt. is less of a deal if the doctor in question is at one's hometown not in college for example.
Helping with romantic advice is not abnormal. It isn't also checked if it was wanted or not.
As for reminding of deadline, that needs more detailed info. Did the child talk about a big paper? And parent ask how it is going? Isn't it close?
It makes this sound like a much bigger deal rather than normal parental nudging. That has happened throughout time. How we phrase it is all the difference.
4
Your only job as a parent of children of that age should be to help them become independent responsible young adults. Granted we shelter them and do much more for them than our own parents did, but at some point it has to end.
Parents who do all this for their children are self-indulgent and actually handicapping them. Why would anyone knowingly do this?
2
This column presupposes that there is one "right" way to parent children and one "right" way to relate to them as adults. Everything else is "out of the norm" and somehow "wrong."
We can all agree on the fringes. Starving your kids is not ok under any circumstance. Neither is bribing and cheating to get your kids into college. However, we need to understand that beyond that there is a very broad middle that is likely just "fine." Where does the need for all of this judgement come from?
7
Several thoughts.
1) America is no longer a country of rugged individualism. Other nationalities (Chinese, Indian, Jewish) have immigrated here and for them families stay tight and help each other and mothering is more intensive.
2)
2
My son will graduate from college next year. We are absolutely loving the empty nest lifestyle and will subsidize rent In order to keep the nest empty. We can easily afford it, so who really cares? He’ll ultimately get all our money one day anyway.
6
Doing it on your own is something to be proud of only if your parents are deceased. The rest of the comments make me sick due to all the directing, financially assisting, babying, pampering, doting and general display of vicarious reality of
these parents focusing on achievement and rather than character, competence, contentment and independence.
1
H.L.Mencken, the great newspaperman and literary and social critic, lived in Baltimore in the same house almost without interruption until his death at the age of 76. His mother was in the habit of leaving a plate of sandwiches out for him when he returned late at night from reporting assignments.
It was not the worst fate ever to befall a man.
4
@A. StantonPresident Franklin Delano Roosevelt and General of the Army Douglas McArthur also had close mothering. General McArthur's mother stayed at the Hotel Thayer while he studied at the United States Military Academy at West Point. President Roosevelt's mother made it a practice to be nearby throughout his life. So close parental involvement is nothing new.
3
Being invested in your child's well being and success is very natural and a parental trait worldwide. The problem here is the ability of ill-minded monied people to break the law or engage in fraud. That is criminal period. I am sure this is not the only time they have tried to buy their way ahead.
1
It's disheartening that Quelay and Cain see fault in mature, loving, supportive parent/adult child relationships. I hope they both are benefiting and contributing to healthy relationships with their parents.
I don't know which is worse — helicopter parents who constantly hover over their child, terrified that the child might make a mistake; or lawnmower parents who are so determined to make a straight path for their child that they mow down every obstacle before their child even has a chance to confront it. Or are they becoming one and the same?
3
So why does giving romantic advice show up on a list of parental overstepping?
I would think if the parent and adult child get along well and communicate regularly, a bit of this might be normal?
Heck, I gave some romantic advice to my 70 year old mom when she started dating again after a 25 year hiatus.
4
The*appropriate* time to hover is during babyhood -- when all "learning" is implicit and relational. Babies up to about age three are developing their RIGHT brain -- the unconscious future set points like a sense of self, a sense of other, of being safe (or not), emotional self regulation (or not). THIS is when intuiting and meeting a kids needs 24/7 is healthy, and pays off. But our culture now often skips this period!! Helicoptering is no longer front loaded as attachment experiences, it is back loaded as resume building. But that does not correspond to developmental reality of what builds a solid person.
Many parents today aren't that interested in connecting with tiny babies... those 'boring' years get delegated to nannies and preschools. Then, when their lost and anxious kids reach middle or high school as disconnected, boring, aimless teens, the hovering/bribing/ path-smoothing ramps up ... whether legally with test prep and reminders, or here illegally-- buying admission to a school the child is not qualified for on their own merits.
When children are built from the inside out, in ways that respect natural development, they will find intrinsic interests and motivation and gain increasing independence. You can't do it from the outside in, or in the wrong order. Kids who can't get off the starting line at 18 on their own were incredibly ill served by their parents in EARLY life.
4
A scene from the Waltons (television show) when the dad was giving a send-off to one of his children: "We've given you life and love, and the rest is up to you."
“White, native-born American families previously had an expectation that adult children should separate from their families.” This statement begs a number of questions not addressed in the article (I cannot speak for the survey, which I haven’t read). What about “non-white, native-born American families”? How many generations are needed to be considered native-born? Does a growing ethnic diversity, in which communities may inherit/preserve closer family structures than those of the “white, native-born” group also drive changing family dynamics in the US, beyond matters such as inequality, ballooning student debt, etc.? Finally, is millennial a “white, nativist” construct?
2
Some of the factors in the survey need clarification. Making appointments? Being a secretary? No way. But offering advice, helping study, or letting your kid use your professional network (is that nepotism, or just good networking?).... I wonder too how much "writing" is actually "editing?"
Some of this are things that I would expect a good friend to do. After 18, what else is your kid but another adult friend?
I wonder if these parents have done a cost comparison: pay for college--vs establish a trust fund for the kid, using the same money?
If you're going to spend, say, 100K in tuition for Junior, to see that he graduates to a dubious career in a dubious future, what would that 100K earn him if instead it was invested at age 18 and cashed out at age 50? (When he has matured enough to know how to use it.)
Would he ever even need to get a job?
Given that sort of secured future, might he choose to take a different route to a degree? Say, community college for 2 years, a gap year while working and learning about the real world, maybe then online courses or perhaps back to a frugal state college to earn a degree he paid for himself, in a major that answers his passion and talents--once he has figured out what they are. (Which, face it, most people don't do till well into your twenties.)
Now that could be a good life, perhaps less prestigious than an Ivy League B.A., but solid, and earned, and not so costly for himself or his family.
Run the numbers. Think outside the box!
4
Here is a quote from Jeffrey Eugenides novel "Middlesex" that I think speaks to what these man child/woman child individuals are and will become: "Environment has already made its imprint on him. He has the tyrannical, self-absorbed look of American children."
A breathless descriptive article, borderline salacious, ends with:
"Research has shown that children of hyper-involved parents are often more successful at navigating college and finding good jobs — but that they are less self-reliant and more likely to face anxiety or depression."
If this is it, who cares? Employers are already outsourcing, out-shoring, hiring older workers, automating because they want to avoid the described soft, mollycoddled progeny.
For that matter, what are the "hands off" parents producing?
What happens to their kids? Are they more self-reliant, and less likely to face anxiety and depression?
For parents, risking a softer progeny, more reliant on them and on three pills a day, is worth it. Alternatives are drugs, dropping out, and dangerous behaviors that spiral every one's life out of control. I can see why parents are trying very hard to reduce the risk of carrying a child after they dropped out, or engaged in risky behavior and got caught.
I.e., striking a balance between hands off and on is an academic construct, no human can do this reliably.
Moreover, what is un-kosher about the motivation: "See what a good mom/dad I am? You wont t send me off to the assisted living facility like I did to my parents, will you. You will make your life about us, like we are doing about you, right?"
What would the authors recommend? Raising a new generations of kids fashioned after Sparta of 600 BC? As in, get a life.
1
Well, I'm 39 and married with children and my mom still 'Offers me advice on relationships and romantic life' all the time. I feel blessed to have someone so helpful in my corner. (But the ship sailed on the rest of those things decades ago.)
Aren't parents who can spend this much to try to illegally secure a spot for their children in college already at an economic level where their children have an automatic leg up ? These children are not at all at risk of ever being short of funds...
1
Uh, of course I made my daughter's doctors appointments until she was 21. She was still seeing the pediatrician. Now it is her own problem.
Most college students "come home" until they graduate so many of the items on this list are just plain dumb when judging whether over-parenting occurs. If you have a good relationship with your child, or now young adult, they ask for input. Not simply to get their parents to do things for them but for an opinion. They ask their friends for opinions, their mentors for opinions and their other family members for their opinions as well. The may also ask for help getting an "in" to a job or internship. This isn't necessarily "over-parenting" but simply what family and friends do for you. Geez!
1
Helping to pay tuition for college is hardly, "extraordinary." I challenge the author to find a 4-year college an average kid can afford working part-time while attending school.
5
I am Hispanic and in our families, children stay until they get married even into their 30’s or beyond. Families play a central role in our lives. It is just the way it is it is a cultural thing.
3
As the parent of two 20 somethings, I'm not seeing how this survey data is bearing out the hypothesis.
Why are researchers so blind to their biases? Here, the bias is moralistic, elitist, and pro-neurotypical/anti-neurotypical.
People under 25 with less than a fully developed executive function can get into debt for life thanks to our broken education system. Medical debt cripples people, yet somehow it's helicopter parenting for a parent to call a doctor and ensure that the dr. still takes their insurance & to try to get a price for the potential procedure?
How many 18-24 year olds have anxiety disorder or clinical depression? How many have learning disabilities...and teachers with zero training in teaching students like them?
Surely the NY Times can do better reporting than to give attention to this ridiculously biased poll.
2
I help my son a lot. I try, with varying degrees of success, to model behavior rather than do for him. Nowhere in the article is the "pay it forward" aspect of the relationship. I cared for my aging parents and I want to be sure someone will wipe my tush later in life. The goal is mutual aid.
1
A friend recently told me about a new employee who, when handed their first paycheck, had no idea what to do with it. Another told me of her adult-age daughter going to a doctor, not with her husband, but with her mother.
Parent's behavior that doesn't prepare kids for life is shameful and, not to put fine a point on it, smacks of child abuse.
“White, native-born American families previously had an expectation that adult children should separate from their families.” This statement begs a number of questions not addressed in the article. What about “non-white, native-born American families”? How many generations are needed to be considered native-born? Does a growing ethnic diversity, in which communities may inherit/preserve closer family structures than those of the “white, native-born” group also drive changing family dynamics in the US, beyond matters such as inequality, ballooning student debt, etc.? Finally, is millennial a “white, nativist” construct?
Wrong again NYT. The college cheating incidents are not one end, even an extreme end, of any normal spectrum. They are over a line and should be harshly considered as over a line every time they are written about or discussed. Bribing coaches and faking athletic credentials are not a natural extension of anything - not parenting, not race issues, not wealth issues. Blurring the differences only gives tacit acceptance to criminal acts. No!
Much of what you’re describing is what my neighbors have adopted from a book about being a “tiger mom”. Apparently being hyper involved makes for successful outcomes to some.
1
My sister-in-law planned her daughter's honeymoon. She's a control freak. There's no over arching wisdom to this helicopter parenting. It's herd mentality. Americans don't think about what they are doing, especially if they don't know themselves. They just do what everyone else is doing. They let the news media like the NYT or CNN tell them what and how to think about certain issues and it's the same with parenting. And you can't tell a mother anything about their children. Their righteous certitude is unassailable and infallible. I expect my two nieces, now married and "on their own" (yuk yuk) will be useless without their mother.
This is just disgusting as these "parents" control their kids life to meet their own needs as obviously these parents have no life of their own.
As any intelligent person knows the future for this generation is going to be dangerous and difficult. They absolutely need to be able to make decisions and have knowledge of how to handle things themselves.
Kids this is all about your parents needs , completely selfish and controlling making you dependent and you will be easily controlled by others. You will suffer from terrible anxiety knowing that you have no experience with making difficult choices or learning and dealing with failure.
Please don't become Doctors or any profession where other people need you to function at a high level independently. Those skills are being robbed from you because of your parents neurosis and selfishness.
Your life is going to be boring at the best but more likely very tough and scary.
1
None of this is new, at least not in farm and small business families. Generations have lived under the same roof in the past, which necessarily means the parents have a lot of "advice" to give the 20-somethings at the supper table. Parents have always helped young adults get established, in generations past by helping them build their own home when they marry and more recently by loaning or giving the down payment to get a mortgage. Seed money to start a business has come from parents and grandparents. aunts and uncles. What may be happening is that we are going back to those "good old days" because now, first jobs, even with a bachelor's degree, do not pay enough for high rents and utilities, a car and insurance, and a cell phone contract and raises do not come often enough to keep up with the cost of living. We also live in a two-income economy, which means most young single adults are stuck, either at home or with a roommate, until they find a mate. .
2
This is a non story for my family culture.
I was raised by a “ village “ of aunts and grand aunts , grandparents , and parents .
We took care of each other. We counseled each other and supported each other.
We lived close and if not were in constant communication by phone and letter and then computers.
At gatherings of our large Italian Clan the parents discussed our educations and futures and the dreams they had for us. All my many cousins and my own two siblings are now in our 60’s and 70’s
Or have passed on but we still practice that caring approach to our adult children and yes we help them in small and big ways.
Colleges my generation attended were all State Schools.
Our kids’ list is longer and more diverse and more expensive.
Some went to : Boston College , Middlebury,UVA,Yale,etc.
Most have gone on to good jobs.
Now we are watching over their broods enter elementary school.
So this concern over parents involvement in their kids lives is a non issue creating anxiety in an already chaotic country.
Enough !!!
Caring for family is a normal supportive behavior.
Tough Love should be researched!
It doesn’t work!!!!
If wealth gains ya access to power and money of course a parent will take advantage of it for their kids success .
Jealousy has no place in comparing the education of our kids to helicoptering.
And if your daughter is at work and you wanna be her day care option so what!!!
Making appts. And going along is another so what!
Stop critiquing middle class!!
4
In some cultures, there is a sense of duty towards children you have spawned. I think it’s admirable.
4
It starts in elementary school. Parents in the know cozy up to administrators to make sure their kids get the best teachers. They also run for local school boards not to help the school but to make sure their agenda (for their child) gets through.
I figured this out late in the game, and although I didn't like it I started making my own requests for teachers. I missed out on the
middle school teachers working with students (after school) to make sure they tested into higher level high school classes. Parents who question anything are immediately blacklisted.
1
Nothing new here. I've been teaching college students for 30 years, and I remember back in 1991 when a mother called me, outraged because her son's essay had earned a B- in my class.
This couldn't be possible, she told me, because she was an English teacher and had written the whole thing herself!
115
Hysterical. WOW.
5
@LJ My parents subsidized the housing for my college years in NYC in the '80s.
So, into my 20s, I was helped out (my Granddad also bequeathed a little money to me and my sister, for our education). When I graduated at 22, I got a real job (moving on from popcorn girl at The Quad) and paid my own way.
Granted, my grandmother had a baby and was running a household at 18 -- but I don't think supporting and stabilizing your loved ones is some kind of new phenomenon.
1
No wonder these kids are blowing their brains out and majoring in fentanyl overdoses. Parents need to relocate to another country.
1
Parents giving romantic advice is Really?
Have you never seen “Fiddler on the Roof?”
Now THAT is a helicopter parent. Face it, parents trying to get their children financially established is nothing new. One might also call it ... “tradition.”
49
Try up to 40 years old with some of these kids. It's killing me I'm telling you!
1
This is nothing unique to millennials.
How many people transition from their parents to a spouse, without ever managing each of these things themselves?
Deadlines, interview practice, appointments... these are things that need to be done, and are often managed collectively within a family (often by a wife or mother). What’s new is the longer timeframe for this transition.
My children would say they thought I didn't care about them because I wasn't hovering like the parents of their classmates.
I rarely had parental support in the areas specified in the article and I was definitely doing more than my own parents.
3
I think this article is misleading by including 18-22 year olds in all of their statistics. Of course parents pay for college, because colleges force them to. Financial aid is calculated based on the parents' income. I have cousins and friends with high earning divorced fathers whose incomes prevented them from qualifying for any aid or even subsidized loans, but then cruelly declined to pay for any tuition. It's a devastating blow. The system is set up to force parents to be responsible for college students. My parents also refused to pay anything towards my tuition, but fortunately they are poor, so it didn't increase my loan debt that much.
4
I would like to suggest to Ms Hamilton that “screwing around” and not graduating in 1970 generally meant that you wound up in Vietnam, which some might consider more risky than the consequences of similar behavior today. Unless your parents had money, of course.
3
Parents helping their kids is part of human evaluation. One million $ addition expense for some people can be equivalent to 100$ for other. So the level of amount spent in helping kids should not be be viewed a criteria as what is appropriate, particularly for a capitalistic society. What society needs is mechanisms such that individual with ability will rise to the top, irrespect to family wealth. If a wealth family can spend more money on to raise their kids ability, we should all be for it. On the other hand, for people with ability but without means, the society should provide (financial) support to develop them.
5
I see a lot of parents help out their adult kids because they weren't helped by their parents - childcare, rent, down payment for house, employment advice/placement. It is a type of fantasy world they are playing out. They see folks like Kardashians and Trumps helping their kids out.
I went away for college but I was still a car-ride away, too close. When I studied abroad, I started to see how other people live, began to problem-solve and discovered my independence.
6
To what extent does this contribute to recent declines is Americans geographic mobility?
This article is trying to make something trendy out of what loving parents have been doing for many generations, helping their 20-something, even 30-something kids establish a foothold in a harsh adult world. If you want to note a trend, include some actual historical data showing a difference from, say, the 50s and 60s, when as others have noted, parents who could manage paid for college and even grad school tuition, proudly. Or "lent" the downpayment for the first house, etc.
24
There are young adults who are really trying and really struggling, and they're fortunate if they have parental support. But some of these examples are frightening. Parents should not be making appointments for adult children nor should they text reminders of classes or appointments. If you're doing that as a parent, you didn't do your job the first 18 years. Your job is to create an independent human; not a co-dependent extension of you.
15
@Anne
Generally, yes. But there are notable exceptions. My best friend has two very bright children diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia. When the oldest went off to college, and even now in his mid-twenties, he needs help with managing his life. I love this kid. So kind, smart, generous. But he can't remember to make and keep medical appointments, for example. Thank god for automatic bill pay, because that would be impossible for him. My friend did literally everything right the first 18 years of his life, starting at age 5, and including moving to a town whose school district had the best special ed program in the area. I'm sure strangers who don't know them wonder why mom makes his appointments or calls with reminders. It's really none of their business.
4
@bellhop: I agree there are young adults with special needs in which case these things make total sense. But there's a lot of helicopter parenting across the board. I had roommates in college who didn't know how to pay a utility bill simply because they'd never handled anything in their lives. Their moms helped them schedule their classes. They did not have any disabilities. They were just coddled and has learned helplessness.
1
This survey is useless because its conflates age 18-22 with being older than college age! Living at home while you're in college, and having parents pay for tuition and other expenses is normal, because it's much more expensive to live away from home and often not realistic to study full-time and work enough to support yourself independently. The issue is what happens after graduation.
19
It is wonderful to have good relationships with our kids
What is missing here is a discussion of allowing them to fail
If a 25 year old misses a doctor’s appointment?
Maybe next time he/she won’t?
Maybe he/she could put it on google calendar?
Or study harder for a test?
These are survival skills
That our kids will need!
7
Of course, I don't condone parents writing entire job applications or essays for their children, or showing up in their child's place at a job interview, but some of the other things on that list (i.e. offering advice on relationships, giving more than $500/month, reminding of deadlines...) are, in my opinion, actually beneficial for adult children, especially those starting out. I'm 25 years old with a good-paying full-time job and my parents give me >$500 a month, which helps me pay off my student loans. They're cutting me off after two years, so I have plenty of time to become more established and get a hefty savings. I'll be the first to admit that without their financial support, I would probably be homeless, especially when I was in college! I just finished grad school last year, and many of my peers aren't "adulting" yet (which includes making their own doctor's appointments, a thing I only started doing last year...), either, so I consider myself ahead of the pack, even considering how much I rely on my parents!
4
Such a frustrating article! The really interesting and meaningful observations about evolving parenting patterns that manifest in various ways with potentially concerning implications are overwhelmed by useless survey data and silly quotes.
The survey data includes 18 year olds with 28 year olds. Many 18 year olds are in high school while 28 year olds have graduated from college and even graduate school and have lived on their own for years. Why mix the two profoundly different stages of life?
If an adult child discusses career options with parents, how does this imply that the parent wants the child to avoid ever making any mistakes? Really? How about the positive spin - the adult child respects the parent enough to have that conversation.
The article attempted to make too many points all at once and as a result, succeeded in making no points.
21
These young people are as much to blame as their parents. They allow their parents to run their lives for them. My parents would have micromanaged my high school, college, job and life if I let them. But I signed up for academic events, scholarships and colleges without telling them. I registered for my own classes. The only reason I allowed my mother to set up my doctor visits is because I was on their medical insurance, but when I left home at 22 I never asked them for help, even after my car died and I went into $1000 debt to fix it. Being independent is a choice.
10
For young adults under 25, the federal financial aid programs consider parents' income when assessing financial need. The days of being able to work your way through a bachelors degree ate long gone. Part time low wage jobs often don't provide enough income to live on, much less cover tuition and other educational expenses.
While other activities described are excessive, it is currently expected that parents continue to financially support their adult children through their first college degree. I agree that enforcing this level of dependance harms the ability of young adults to be independent, but changing this will require government action. Until the paradigm for education funding is changed, most parents in the middle class and up will need to support their children for them to get a college degree.
21
I can still hear my mother’s expectation expressed in my senior year of high school “get a job and pay rent, or go to college”. I did the latter - and figured I needed job skills where I could pay rent. I graduated with loans and paid those off so long ago that I don’t remember the amount or lender. I earned 2 additional degrees on my own. What has stayed with me was the lesson my parents instilled in me then that this is the time in life where one works to become self sufficient. I am now planning on an early, comfortable retirement, and I wish I could again thank my parents for their love and support. That is what it looked like in my home.
17
We forget that in a country with a very weak social safety net and a wealth-dependent healthcare system, many Americans have been raised to expect little to no help from anyone else around them. We are repeatedly told by conservatives to rely upon our private networks of family and friends for help, and not to look to any government or institutional entity for assistance. In this kind of an atmosphere, is it any wonder that families are forced to become more insular and to put more effort into supporting each other? In an age of extreme wealth inequality, is it surprising that many parents and children have to band together to survive?
33
“the most important relationship in their lives on both ends.”
Except .... parents get old. They will die. (Speaking as a parent, caring for a dying spouse.)
Seems to me, at 74, that parents should back off and enable their progeny to make mistakes, to find close friends outside the family, to make their way in the world, so you can say - after many years: “We are proud of the man you’ve become, what you’ve built for yourself.”
As parents, the most important relationship in ourlife has been inside our marriage. I hope and pray that my son finds his relationship with Jen as more important than with us. (Of course, he’s turning 50 this year and we were never in a position to do more than extend the occasional small loan. Till recently, when we’ve invested a bit in some of his business equipment.”
As a former teacher of young children and a therapist, I think it’s important to encourage independence.
But every parenting relationship is an “experiment” and we’ll see down the road how these kids turn out.
9
I went straight there too with that line. Did they really not even consider the spousal relationship?
Young people today assume that their parents' lifestyle, including creature comforts, is something owed to them. When they realize it's difficult to attain, they just stay in their parents' homes. The notion of any measure of discomfort, hardship, or struggle is anathema to them. When I was in my 20s, I was always broke. At one point, I was laid off from a TV news job. Rather than collect unemployment, I walked int into neighborhood gym and began selling gym memberships for six months until I landed my next "real job." It was a humbling experience, but I cherished the independence it gave me and I never asked my parents for a dime.
12
Many of my students can’t ask their late for anything because the parents don’t have. I am grateful that I am able to help my adult daughter who is a single mother.
1
A lot of this resonates with me because I've seen all of this as a parent and a professor. But some are ways in which things are different because we did go to college and we did have that experience. Many of our parents had not gone to college and did not know how to navigate the system, so we had to learn on our own.
But some of what you describe as part of parents supporting adult children was the norm then. Back in the ancient days when I was in college, parents paying tuition and room and board for their offspring was the norm--much more than today. How did they do it? State schools charged minimal tuition; room and board were relatively cheap because the accommodations provided were pretty basic even at the private university where I went. Ordinary middle class families, not just the upper middle class and up could do it. The only one of my friends who paid for her own college (her dad didn't think women should go) paid for it by herself with a combination of part time work during the school year and a well paying summer job. This was at a university that today is known for its exceptionally high tuition costs--costs that no normal student could afford today without a lot of help from family or without the iron chain of student loans. Overparenting may be an issue, but I feel for young adults who are pushed to take out terrible loans that will haunt them for years. The best parents could do would be to be realistic about which colleges to choose from.
26
Helping your kid live on their own by subsidizing their rent is in my mind much better than having them live at home. And yes I will help them if it means they live in a safe, clean neighborhood.
I do offer advice, why not? Sometimes they take it, oftentimes they don't. I am their father but I am also their friend.
6
During the 60s, I was raised and lived among the ultra rich, and their offspring were the most unhappy kids in school. Their parents never seemed to have enough time for them, much less become obsessed with their future success, so they were shuffled off to nannies or were given gifts to make up for neglect, and then they'd wrap their "gift" around a tree or kill themselves because they were too young to drive a Corvette or a big Harley. They were never quite sure whether someone wanted to be their friend just because of their wealth. I would hear stories about their fathers being involved with another nanny or their mother's secret drinking. It wasn't a happy life. I'm not saying all rich kids lived like this, but it's safe to say a majority of them did. Things may have changed now in the complete opposite direction to the extreme, which can be just as, if not more, destructive. Unfortunately, extremes are always affordable and somehow comforting to them.
3
Let's see if this sounds like anything that could happen today:
40 years ago I was accepted to an elite east coast liberal arts college, despite having had to withdraw from my sophomore year HS math class for failing grades and never taking another math class again (because in those days high schools didn't require four years of math).
My middle-class parents were able to pay for my college education in full, including tuition, room and board, and a modest monthly allowance, without going into debt or endangering their retirement.
Within two weeks of graduation with a degree in the humanities I found a job in San Francisco doing research for a corporation that paid enough for me to afford a lovely one bedroom apartment in Pacific Heights (sharing rent with my boyfriend), despite never having held an internship or any other form of full time employment.
This is an unimaginable scenario today. Is it any wonder parents and children worry about the future?
73
Thank you. Seriously.
5
@CF - This was not because society was richer than, but because it was poorer.
The colleges of the 70s: spartan dorms, a few dozen professors in tweed jackets making little money, some old classroom buildings.
Low rents in old apartments, because there was nobody with the income to pay a high rent.
Employers who had plenty of jobs, but the salaries were much lower, so they could afford to hire people.
"Success" is not an "attainment" that can be determined for one person by another; neither by parents, nor by society. Each of us has to find whatever it is that gives our lives meaning and makes us feel that we are living the life we are meant to live and doing the things that we were meant to do. By pushing our children onto a path that leads to (our definition of) success, and helping them to avoid (our definition of) failure, the children will have a much harder time finding that true success that awaits them if they are allowed to live "their" life for themselves, and in which failures and difficulties are an essential part.
Unconditional love, wise guidance and letting go are key to our children's success, not manipulation and interference.
8
I agree some of the examples described are excessive, but when my dad turned 18, in the good ol’ 50s, his father gave him a hug and said, “you’re on your own now, son,” and he meant it. Is that what we would prefer?
Many cultures have a kinder, extended attachment to their children and families than western capitalism has taught us, where we’re trained to think we need to become financial competitors even in highschool. Sure, lets teach our children to be self-empowered, but lest we forget, we’re not reptiles. Humans are warm blooded.
19
My both children proudly became financially independent when they move to New York and attended colleges from their graduation in Kansas. They learned from their struggles to make ends meet, leading to become early mature and independent in other areas such as jobs, social life, and culture. After 10 years later now, that is one of things we feel most rewarding in parenting.
6
Modern life is vastly more complicated than it used to be. Back in the 1930s, 40s, 50s a majority of people were getting married at 18, having kids, going to work at the same factory until retirement, and that was their life. Not multiple career changes and relationships.
Growing up today is much different. Finding a stable niche in our modern economy is much more difficult. Most jobs for the inexperienced (and for many of the experienced workers) do not pay a living wage.
That young people are taking more time to become fully independent is to be expected.
18
None of this makes sense to me. Do people really make doctor appointments for their adult children? Call their employers?
13
I’m thinking there is a world of difference between an 18-year-old and a 28-year-old. That’s part of why the article is misleading, and cherrypicking the most extreme examples as evidence of a “trend “ is manipulative and dishonest. I’m willing to bet that actual examples of parents calling the boss of their 28-year-old, are at a statistical zero.
1
Yep, I have a friend who does this. I don't think his son (21) even knows half of his own medical history. The "boy" also gets an allowance, has no chores, doesn't drive (dad does) and has never had even a part-time job. Meanwhile, dad is living on a modest pension and is worrying himself to death (literally) over money.
These are the same parents who insist they are their son or daughter’s “best friend”. Living vicariously through your kids is never a sign of a healthy relationship. Let them know you’ll always be there for them and let them go. At some point in life these kids will have to think and act independently. Your job as a parent is to prepare them for that as best you can.
13
I'm 50 but had "Greatest Generation" parents who had me in later years. They've both died now, but more and more when I read stories like this I am thankful for their hands-off approach. My dad's regular advice, "you'll figure it out" has served me well in college, work, and relationships. They weren't neglectful, but came from a generation that would have been laughed out of the annual Labor Day block party if they had done any of these things for their kids.
9
When my girls were 3 and 5, I told them they would have to leave home at 18. They both commenced to ball in agony!“Whoa, whoa, kids," I said. "That’s a long time from now, but believe me, when you’re 18, you’ll want to leave home.” They calmed down, but never, ever let me forget what I had told them (and all their friends and their friends’ parents heard the story from them and have never let me forget it.) However, they are now 19 and 22 and moved out of the house at 19 (I found out later that kids finish school at 19, not 18, in Quebec, so I gave them the extra year at home.) They are now both at university, working to help pay their tuition, paying their rents, buying their groceries, covering 100% of their travel and utilities. It’s amazing what a little push can do… you just have to give them a heads up 15 years in advance.
3
@Jenny Schumacher
I did something similar... we set an expectation of self supporting-ness by college graduation. So far 2 out of three have graduated and launched!
The funny part was when we tried to file taxes as we'd done for years (my dad had set up some accts in the kids' names) and they were rejected.... it looked like maybe my daughter's SS # had been stolen?? Until we asked her and she said, "yes, I already filed my taxes, I thought I was supposed to." Yes!
Making doctor's appts. for my 18/19 year-old makes me a helicopter parent? What does that say about my 62 year old spouse that has never gone to a medical or dental appt. that was not made by me?!?!
27
Your spouse married well.
3
@LL
Yes. You are a helicopter parent. If you do it for your husband that's just more evidence supporting the diagnosis.
2
This article is going too far. There is nothing wrong in being an involved parent. There is a difference between a helicopter parent, a drone parent, an involved parent and a parent who does not care at all.
13
My first attempt at college was not a success, for a number of reasons (including the poor preparation I had at my high school).
But one of the few shining spots was that I was able to learn how to navigate the day to day on my own. After years of Mom and Dad doing everything for me, I learned that, for example, having checks in the checkbook does NOT mean you still have funds to draw upon.
Some of these things are sensible within reason. Giving advice on relationships and careers is nice - if it's welcomed, of course. And using a professional contact to keep an eye out for a job? Sure, again, within reason.
But it's hard to imagine a scenario where a parent contacting a professor/administrator or a boss at work, or completing a grown child's work for them, makes any sense. There's a big difference between "advise and recommend" and "hands on help/in the driver's seat."
Checkbooks may be almost obsolete these days, but there is a sense of achievement that comes from learning to handle things on one's own that is worth the struggle. Young adults can always ask for help, and loving parents can always offer it, but letting those offspring spread their wings and fly is part of the job.
4
Some of this can be blamed on the dramatic drop in the birth rate, which has happened in one generation. As one of four children, I can attest to the fact that my parents didn't have the time to pay all that much attention to any of us. Other families had 6 and 8 kids and it was true for them as well. Kids were left alone "in my day" because there were simply so many of them. Today, with one or two children, middle class parents have lots more time and money to put into few baskets. But that doesn't means you have to.
12
Lets see. Forty years ago my mother did many of those things for me when I was in my 20s. And that was pre internet so she had actually mail things to me when I in college or call on the payphone in hall. I turned out to be a completely independent responsible adult.
So let's be clear, it isn't the helping, its the taking over that is the problem.
30
If your grown child turns to one of you, if they're lucky enough to still have both of you, for relationship or really any advice, sounds like great parenting to me. Sounds like you developed an actual relationship, which sounds a lot healthier than generations separated from each other, some in isolation, and being strangers to each other.
Yes there are extremes, duly noted. But cross generational support and friendship? What horror is next, the younger generations helping the older ones? Count your blessings.
54
This is nothing new for me, an older physician. Many of my medical classmates, we're talking 90s here, had helicopter parents. I haven't done a randomized clinical trial or anything but the young adults whose parents "told them" to go into medical school really struggled with identity and career. They often seemed lost after they finished education and job satisfaction seemed poor (as compared to their peers). My thought has since been, if you push kids into demanding fields, they need to be self-motivated. Such is the daily struggle, in any demanding field.
14
@mark Cadet (later General) Patton's mother famously moved near West Point so that she could be closer to him during his years there. So yes, this is nothing new!
In the early 1900's we built legal protections and infrastructure that allowed the development of an American middle class. There was a period of time in which it really was possible thru education and hard work to move up in social and financial class. However, not long after we built all these protections we began to slowly wear away at them. Today's parents are watching their children move into a world in which the rich can get richer but everyone else is either stuck or losing ground. Yet people are not consciously aware of why things are this way. We cling to the idea that the US is all about "the freedoms of the self-made man." This disconnect between reality and our subconscious beliefs results in great anxiety. We know our kids will have a harder time. We don't quite understand why. So parents push and scheme.
If we can recognize that the problem is not in "working hard enough" or "getting into the right school" but rather in a system that cuts taxes for the rich, offers no useful healthcare, no decent safety net, no access to debt free education. The problem for young adults is that older adults have allowed all this to happen without fixing it. We whittled away at the meritocracy and built a land for the rich, the connected, the schemers, and the cheaters. Look who we made president.
You want parents to stop over involvement? Build a society in which their kids have a chance.
54
@kathleen Hear, hear. Exactly right.
3
It is baked into our America, and by extension, our mentalities, that we must scrabble for basic resources: health care, education, decent jobs. The awareness that these resources are limited puts parents in the position to make sure their kid gets on the bus, because there are only a limited number of seats. This article frames the choice as between success and self-reliance. I, like many parents, choose success, hoping the self-reliance comes later. I despise the hyper-parenting these times demand.
9
There was a time in my twenties when things weren’t going right for me at school.
So I took the problem to my father and even before I could explain
It to him he was pulling on his jacket and heading out the door to try to fix it for me.
I don’t remember to say a prayer for my parents every day, but on most days I do.
20
While the light discussion about parental intensity during the child launching process was entertaining, I found the survey to be flawed. The age range from 18 to 28 renders the results meaningless. What a parent might have done for an 18 year old high school senior is very different from what a parent might have done for a 28 year old who is either working or in grad school (or living at home playing Fortnite!).
43
I so agree with you, particularly with regard to financial support. Do we really think that an 18-22 year old should pay for their own college if the parents can help? Is that the yardstick for being an adult? My son did more than enough by earning a full-tuition merit scholarship but he still needs at least $60,000 to cover room and board for the next four years. I will do whatever I can to cover that for him.
8
I spent many years in India. There I have seen the where such corruption and desire to control one's children, mainly to secure the future of the parents, can lead to. There starting from children's friends, career, to selection of spouse are determined by the parents and other relatives.
Almost every democratic institution virtually collapse, corruption become socially and politically acceptable, social mobility takes a nose dive, modern day slavery strengthens in business practices, and frustration among people rises fast.
Since last few decades, USA is increasingly showing characteristics of a developing country like India in almost every aspect- including higher education and research sector as well.
14
The article rings true, however, the comparison to how-things-used-to-be needs some more data. The article should have included the extent to which parents gave kids a leg up back in used-to-be, for example, giving kids low- or no-interest loans to start a medical or dental practice, factory employees getting their kids summer jobs and permanent jobs in the plant or company office, or utility employees getting their kids jobs on the repair trucks or office. And parents giving kids low- or no-interest loans to make the down payment on a house, or introducing kids to friends or business associates who could hire them. Those starts in life occurred at every economic level at which there were resources to make them happen, whether in the plant or at the office. Perhaps one difference between used-to-be and now is that, back in used-to-be, the parents micromanaged the kids less, once they'd gotten the kids started in life.
21
Funny how the super rich are genuinely in a position to really "parent" their children, but despite the conveniences and advantages their wealth provides, some are compelled to control the end result....what kind of success their adult children will "achieve". Something is truly "rotten in Denmark". Think about it, the super rich have none of the financial pressures of the poor and middle class and have admittedly huge advantages, yet those advantages aren't enough for them. Parenting is a delicate balance of love, support, teaching lessons of morality, character building and so much more. The time for teaching those lessons is as a child grows and develops. Sometimes the hardest thing for a parent to do is to say "no", to allow their child to "learn the hard way", because we all know that the most important lessons are learned through experience. I fear for our country, as it appears the most powerful and influential are raising a new crop of the entitled and so-called successful adults who went to the "right" colleges, know the "right" people, but who are soulless and characterless. What ever happened to raising your children to find their passions and to pursue them, to strive for a balanced life, one not solely driven by economic success?
7
The real reason is buried in the essay:
"it has become harder to be an adult. Wages have stagnated, while the cost of college, homes, health care and child care have climbed. This generation has record student loan debt and low homeownership rates."
If you dont have the money, you cannot start your life and you could easily be indebted to a bank by 25.
32
@K Henderson
You are correct. I could pay my rent and go to graduate school on my early 1970's beginning salary. My kids car insurance is more than my was rent back then. This problem, and others facing this generation are evident by the fact that so many need to keep our children ("adults") on our health insurance until they are 26. These are all signs of a nation with a diminishing middle class standard of living.
14
Many parents today grew up in the 1970's and 80's , a generation that dealt with the tremendous upheaval created by the rapid increase in the rate of divorce. While we gained competence and a sense of self-efficacy, this was often born of what would be termed neglect by today's standards. I wonder how much of the "over parenting" is compensating for the help and attention missing from our childhoods as "latch key" children.
9
Parental oversight isn't just for rich people. Look what happened at the TM. Landry school, where resumes and test scores and hardships overcome were simply made up and got their kids into the very best colleges. I'd like to know how they fared when they got there, but the real question is what are these colleges thinking? With their impressively large teams of admissions officers does anybody check what comes in? The schools were snookered and should be deeply embarrassed and get on the program and start checking more carefully. That might make merit the touchstone for entry.
4
I wish my affluent parents had cared enough to pay attention to my grades, homework, and college prospects. They disliked me and were more interested in getting me out of the house and out of their lives than setting me up for success, self-sufficiency, and independence. I’ve spent a great deal of my adult life recovering from my parents’ cruelty, neglect, and self-centeredness, which manifested on the surface as exactly the kind of parenting the author of this article would approve of.
24
@Skip Bonbright
Disappointment in parenting is probably universal so my suggestion is either be grateful you are really your own person and go find your joy or wallow in victimhood.
The latter is easier but makes life miserable.
@Skip Bonbright Focus on what you need to make yourself happy and successful. Living well is the best revenge.
2
My first thought upon reading this article is that some people always look for the negative in life. It’s bad because parents sometimes give their adult children relationship advice? Would it be better if the societal trend was to ignore your children when they leave the nest? Maybe the writer should have talked to some of these adult children. I think it would be healthy for them to say of course the parent should absolutely never call the employer, but they’re glad that Mom or Dad is there to give them perspective when they have a romantic breakup.
As for financial assistance, I’ve come around to realizing that we baby boomers have had opportunities and luck (housing prices, college costs, etc.) that are no longer present. It’s only right to share some of the wealth.
40
"One in three parents said they gave their 18-and-over children $100 or more a month, and 44 percent of those with children in college made tuition or loan payments for them. When asked at what age people should be financially independent from their parents, the largest share of young people said 25 to 28."
This seems pretty standard to me. Do people expect their kids to pay tuition on their own? Even state schools cost 30K. When I went to school in the early 90's, my parents paid at least half and I took loans out for the other half. Yes, I worked. But that was just for spending money. Things are significantly more expensive now and I do not expect my 12th grader to be on his own financially until after college and in a secure job.
52
Some aspects of the parent-child relationships described here relate directly to experiences I encountered during my career in hospitality management. Without a doubt, some of my most gratifying experiences occurred in the course of providing professional guidance for young people entering the professional ranks and assisting in their development of supervisory skills and problem solving in the workplace. Conversely, some of my most disappointing experiences emerged when over-protective parents attempted to intercede on behalf of staff members encountering problems in the workplace. I had considerable success in deflecting inappropriate interference by parents by insisting that I could not violate the confidentiality standards established by corporate policy. I would explain that I could not share information regarding their son's or daughter's work performance with anyone, period. I would express some sympathy for their intention to assist their offspring but I would point out the distinction between professional life and the educational settings they had been accustomed to in earlier years. Much depended upon the judgement demonstrated by the parent at that point. Threats or inappropriate persistence after I had made it clear their involvement was out of line would result in real damage to their child's professional prospects. Once I was compelled to advise the parent that they should establish a business of their own and then hire their "child" for the desired position.
5
"Offered them advice on relationships and romantic life." Isn't this something parents have always done? I think this percentage may be LESS than in my day.
36
@kate All I can say is that I (and my friends) never, ever talked to our parents about our relationships until the day we thought the relationship was strong enough to survive a meeting. After all this was during a time when sex ed in the home was handled by the briefest of discussions. "Do you know how babies are made? Yes? Let's talk about dinner."
Let's be clear. People have lived in extended family relationships for thousands of years successfully. When everyone behaves as an adult it is teamwork. It is the the collective fault of a society that encourages permanent adolescence that leads to every family member becoming Peter Pan. You learn responsibility on a continuing basis starting at age 3. Act like it matters.
35
There are several people in my extended family, of both boomer and millennial provenance, whose parents basically said, "You are 18, you are not my problem any more, don't let the screen door hit you on the way out." Actually, two of them weren't even 18 when their parents all but ushered them out the door. The boomers did fine in life, you can credit that to their grit and independence. The verdict is still out on the millennials. This is the flip side of the situation described in the column; some people swear by it. It's not what I call good parenting.
I am a boomer who achieved success in my chosen field, which I have to credit to my parents support in some measure. They weren't rich and I didn't get much financial support in the beginning, but as my Dad became more financially secure later on he got a lot of pleasure out of sharing his good fortune with my family. I am thankful for that. I didn't expect it, and I would have done fine without it, but he liked doing it. I repaid him through efforts to secure the futures of his grandchildren in like manner.
All children are different. Situations are different. If a child has a learning disability, for example, it may be necessary for the parent to be more involved for a longer period. Don't judge. Closer knit families seem to be the order of the day and whose to say that's a bad thing?
Yes, some of the things happening are ridiculous, not to mention illegal. Other things are perfectly rational considering the economy.
39
One of our sons started college in 2006, only to drop out in 2009. Too much partying. I told him he couldn't return home. After a bunch of low paying jobs while living in horrible conditions, moving every couple of months, he finally got himself together.
After 3 years of unsuccessful living in another state, he applied to a new university in 2012, graduated, and has been in a top corporation moving up the ladder on his own ever since. He bought a home in 2016 and is proud of it. He's proud of himself, as of course we are, too.
While he was waiting at the Denver airport to return to his home from a conference, I texted him to read the NYT articles on the college scandal last night.
I said I was proud of him for making it on his own and doing so well, and he lol me and said he didn't have the choice.
59
@mainesummers
He's earned his own respect. That is the best thing one could give to a child.
1
I have a 9 and an 11-year-old. As long as they keep their grades above 80%, I stay off their case. Me being on their case is a pretty intense experience, and I believe they will do anything to avoid it. I hope to be able to share a beer and a laugh with them when they become adults, and not have to worry about them navigating the world according to their lights.
11
@J
As they age, you might want to think more about process (getting the work done and studying for tests) and less on grades (only partly in their control. A sad outcome would be avoiding the hard classes in order to avoid your wrath.
1
This article is interesting. Calling an employer for a child or calling to set up an appointment is a little over the top. But why is providing a bit of financial assistance (especially in the current economic climate for young people), some romantic advice, or even a bit of advice on college a bad thing? Parents have given advice to children since forever. In fact, immediate independence in our culture has only occurred for the last 100 years or so. Families have always lived interdependent lives because rugged individualism is largely a myth.
I guarantee that the rich create their family dynasties by taking care of their families. Whether that's jobs, money, networking connections, or good advice, the rich provide it for their children. The go it alone attitude rarely works.
Personally, I'm 29 years old and my parents pay my rent while I go to Physician Assistant school. I live in a studio apartment and the costs are so ridiculously high I can't afford it without their help. Is that so terrible?
80
@Daniel Savino good for you Daniel... every situation is different and maybe we ought to stop asking "is that ok" or "is that so bad" as if there's some kind of super arbitrator out there who has the TRUTH. In the end we're all doing the best we can with whatever we have,
31
@Daniel Savino
There's a difference. Are your parents keeping your calendar? Reminding you of tests? Helping you wake up in the AM? Making sure you've had your lunch?
3
Moved out on my 16th birthday, took six months before I could contribute the $50 per month that I was helping out with from paper route earnings prior to moving. Way better off for it in he long run. Couldn't fathom any other way.
7
Civilization has delayed adulthood, and we see an acceleration over the last 100 years. It’s a complex process and one can’t blame parents individually for it. Parents have means and experience and children have more opportunities and face stiffer competition. Families just live longer under a roof together, a virtual roof that is. We built the world we live in, and it takes longer to reach independence in it.
16
I clicked onto the Google, 'Bring your parents to work day' event. I can't begin to articulate my dismay at this! There was a song a few years back, I can't remember who wrote it/performed it, but the main lyrics are:
'How bizarre, how bizarre...'
How bizarre
How bizarre, how bizarre
Ooh, baby, ooh, baby
It's making me crazy, it's making me crazy
Every time I look around (look around)
Every time I look around (Every time I look around)
Every time I look around
It's in my face
Substitute it's in my face to you are in my face!
5
Hi Peggy
As the Mom of two very independent individuals who have been that way for 10-15 years and work in the tech field, I enjoy take “ Your Parents to Work Day”. It helps to understand what the heck they are paid so much money to do.Their jobs definitely did not exist most of my working career. Hubby and I are viewed no differently than a touring 6 year old - probably the 6 year understands more than we do.
1
Some of these I think are more acceptable than others. Asking for relationship advice is a wise thing to do and parents have a lot of advice to give - if anything it's a sign of a healthy parent-child relationship.
Told them which career to pursue? Normal to give that kind of advice - it doesn't mean the child will take it. Helping write all or part of a job or internship application? I don't see a problem either, especially if they are new to the workforce. Adults pay other adults to look over resumes and related documents as well and attend workshops to help them. How is it any different?
As for giving money for rent, many people and couples live with their parents not paying rent at all - for cultural and financial reasons and they contribute to taking care of the family and house-related tasks in other ways. Also wise to save up like this, given the job market, real estate market, and economic climate these days.
Contacting an employer is ridiculous. Writing an assignment is cheating. There is a clear difference between helping children navigate a new life stage/life experience and having parents do things that children are capable of doing themselves. I find it surprising that this research was done in this way and fails to consider cultural differences.
126
Instead of focusing this frivolous column on, "his kind of behavior...prevalent among privileged parents," these reporters would be better advised to delve into the factors that have led to "young adults’ economic prospects less assured," and "widening inequality, the growing importance of a college degree, and the fact that for the first time, children of this generation are as likely as not to be less prosperous than their parents."
The Times would be better advised to tell us why other countries can offer universal health insurance at half the cost of ours; how other countries can offer paid maternal leave which we can't; how other developed countries provide free- yes, free- college and graduate school to all their students; how young people in other countries aren't burdened with future-destroying college debt.
Perhaps then we'll understand why parents in other countries aren't nearly as desperate for their children as are American parents.
Change the focus.
239
@Sean
You paint an overly favorable picture of the situation of young people in many of these "other countries." Youth unemployment is very high and it is more difficult to get a first job than it is the United States. There is much anxiety over this.
9
@Thomas:
- Unemployment rate in Germany: 3.3%
- Free college tuition
- universal health coverage
- no medical bankruptcies
- 6 weeks paid vacation
- paid parental leave (full pay for 6 weeks before and 8 weeks after birth; 65% of pay for 12 months after that)
- Life expectancy in Germany: 80.64 years in 2016
- Life expectancy in US: 78.69 years in 2016
121
AMEN
1
Parents are counting on their kids for financial support in the golden years.
3
Meanwhile...
A Madam trafficking in sexual slaves in Florida is the go-between for Trump and Chinese business leaders while donating a ton of cash to Trump.
Why is the media always on the wrong side of what actually matters to people and has a much bigger consequence?
25
Funny, I also read something about this in the Times. Should a newspaper only publish one article a day?
5
@John Bliss the fact that you know about this means they reported on it. A newspaper can walk and chew gum at the same time you know.
3
It's all about competition. People in our culture compete with each other in every way possible.
This used to be mostly an income/wealth competition, with the resulting conspicuous consumption that is now wholly ingrained into our culture.
Then social media came along, allowing people to compete continuously to be the winner living the "best life." Then ancestry data became more available, so now people compete over who has the most "important" great-great grandmother. And genetic testing will soon allow us to do battle over who has the best genes.
Competition over children used to be largely limited to school grades and sports. But now that the baby boomers are determined to establish family dynasties that will reign over other families for generations, the boomers are eager to guide their children throughout life to make sure the kids meet mom and dad's goals for them.
The result? Most people remain unhappy, with the never-ending competitions bringing only stress and dissatisfaction, and the occasion "wins" resulting in only fleeting joy.
Oh, and the kids are permanently impaired because they just don't learn how to live on their own as adults. Such a gift to our children!
13
"Mutual companionship." New term for essentially marrying one or both of your parents (no sex required). Rather difficult to "emerge" into adulthood when you're tucked up in the familial bed in your late twenties and thirties.
10
It's my sense that NYC in particular understands this dynamic and exploits it to its advantage. How else to understand how well-established employers can pay recent college grads $40k per year while their landlords charge thousands per month for shared living spaces. NYC is counting on the parent subsidy for a steady stream of over-worked and under-paid talent. We'll see real progress when it isn't just Amazon that abandons the city. When young people get over the myth that "making it" means head for the Big Apple, they and their parents will be far better off.
42
The whole idea of raising children, like tending a crop or breeding prize hogs, puts the parent-child relationship in a weird context. I am immensely proud of my children, but they are not my achievement and their lives are not an ongoing project that I help run. I don't want to see them make mistakes or get hurt, but they are as capable as I am (maybe more) of figuring stuff out. They know they can call on us if they ever need to. Sometimes they (OK, one does)_ even ask for advice. We all get along.
I think people understandably hope they can cling to the intimacy they had when their kids were little. But they cannot and should not. They still love you. You just can't be the center of their universe any longer. Parents need to grow up, too.
245
@Geoff Lewis
You are 100% right. But I suspect the over-hoverers (and for sure the cheaters) never had "intimacy" with their young kids-- that's the core of the problem. If they were intimate with their children, they would want them to feel a sense of accomplishment and independence that would best serve them. Instead they look at their kids like a work project *they* are supposed to optimize... or worse, the right window sticker on the car shores up the *parent's* fragile self esteem.
This might explain why my younger colleagues never seem to meet their deadline. Perhaps I should be emailing their deadlines to their parents!
87
@pulsation I see this at College, most students seem surprised and aggrieved when instructors enforce strict deadlines.
3
@pulsation
this is great..!!!
1
@pulsation: Commenters who are defending the over-enmeshed parenting practices described in this article obviously don't have to put up with these kids in the workplace. It's not only that they miss deadlines and fail to take job duties seriously. Some of them have an outsized sense of entitlement, expecting praise for every little thing they do and pouting when they don't get the attention they feel they deserve. The concept of paying your dues and moving up the ladder based on merit is also alien to them. They expect to start at the top and denigrate experience. It's like working with oversized undisciplined toddlers. Some of them are so ill-equipped to deal with the real world I feel sorry for them.
7
The assumption that children should be somehow magically 'on their own' at age 18 seems peculiarly American -- tied to our (fantasy) ethos of rugged individualism. I live in a community with a high percentage of immigrants and few of them expect children to function independently at age 18. Children still live at home, presumably eating the food I see their middle-aged mothers (with full shopping carts!) buying at the supermarket, possibly having their clothes laundered, and yes, even their doctor's appointments made for them.
Instead, my immigrant community sees adulthood as a developmental process, where the dividing line between "adulthood" and "still dependent on the family" is marriage. Not college. Which seems to be a far more reasonable, more accurate -- and crucially, less shaming -- point in the timeline to place all the expectations of fully sovereign adulthood onto children.
78
@Blue
Sounds like a good problem to have for a well to do immigrant family.
I live in a community with a high percentage of refugees and most of the parents expected their kids to help and support them in various areas such as doctors' appointment, getting food and buying goods, putting gas in the car, handling bills and insurance, etc.
Envy and jealousy can cause bias and distort reality per Charlie Munger. Thus I should have avoid writing the above paragraph.
7
Helicopter parenting by parents who really own helicopters...
178
@dcm
This was not my takeaway at all.
The article surprised me on how universal this trend is across income brackets.
4
@Kelly
Perhaps there may be multiple takeaways...
“Professional helicopter parents are really focused on using education to get their children into a professional career,” Ms. Hamilton said. “Their goal is basically to prevent their children from ever making a mistake.”
2
We really need books to tell us how dysfunctional some of this is for our young adults ?
My generation should be embarrassed at the level of over involvement and enmeshment we are fostering.
What will our young adults do when they have to fend for themselves?
14
@Jonathan Lewis:
If your generation is going to feel embarrassed for over-involvement in their children's lives, then please also feel embarrassed that you created a society in which it is nearly impossible for young people to earn a decent living and plan for the future.
The baby boomers pulled the ladder up behind them and then sat in the penthouse, tsk tsking at the millennials below because we haven't been able to scale the walls.
75
I feel fortunate that my parents were totally dysfunctional as parents. They struggled with reality and stability and it became apparent to me at a very young age that I would have to help myself and could not depend on them for anything. While I often made mistakes, I knew that they were far less serious mistakes than what my parents would have had me do. Through making my own mistakes I learned and became fairly successful as an adult. I sometimes wish I could have had the advantage of supportive parents. However, when I look at the softness and foolishness of so many people who grew up in a place where they were sheltered from reality and how inept as adults that they have become, I sometimes think my parents did me a favor by forcing me to make my own way.
When I was looking for a graduate school I did a great amount of study and looked at perhaps a hundred schools. What I learned in that process was that, at least in the hard sciences, there are no elite schools, only elite professors. Schools with reputations have such reputations for a couple of reasons. Perhaps in the past they were a key point for the development of some specific technology. They also could have very good PR people who get them mentioned in the media. However, none of these schools are elite. Harvard, Stanford, MIT, or whatever school you think is elite, it's largely propaganda.
151
@Chris
I grew up with similar parents and I was fortunate to have some resilience and other talents (I assume) that meant I flourished because of it.
My siblings however became drug addicts and two died.
It really always boils down to parenting approach that works for the kids in question. Parents are different but so are kids. There is no singular ideal.
67
@Sara
Both your life stories resonate. I too grew up in difficult circumstance-an immigrant home, w/ a single, hardworking Mom but one, uneducated, poor and damaged by life circumstances.
There is frequently a child in a dysfunctional family that can only be described as transcendent. My brothers fared poorly, but I grew up to be responsible, self assured, independent and successful. I had empathy for my mother from a young age and was functionally her parent in many ways. The resilience I needed to grow into adulthood has been a saving grace.
Lining up doctor or dental appointments over break in the hometown for a college kid who’s out of town is not a big deal. It’s on my insurance and I’m calling for the other kids anyhow.
Tiding them over until they get a full time job? Sure. My kid is a Div I athlete on top of a major that precludes making enough money to be self supporting through college. You’ve got the rest of your life to make a living, does it matter if you start at 20 or 22 1/2?
But calling an employer? Calling to remind them of an exam? Not in a million years.
219
Learning how to make a doctor’s appointment and navigate the medical system are also life skills. The American medical system is extremely complex.
Young adults need to know how much it costs to go to a primary physician vs. a specialist, what copays and premiums are, etc.
I know this because I’m a nurse who works with many young adults and I have to explain this information to them because their parents did not.
10
@Sarah
Sure, but even the government recognizes that medical / denal issues are okay for parents to still somewhat supervise (or at least help to pay for) until age 26.
6
There's nothing like paranoid, naggy parents when you're just getting your first taste of adult freedom! I wonder how the young people stand it. Doesn't anyone want to rebel anymore? I always got along very well with my parents, but when I finished high school I simply could not wait to get out from under their roof and go to college in a different state. I even used to hate coming home during breaks, because it shattered my free, independent world and made me feel like a helpless kid again. I kept my parents at arm's length for a long time, determined to forge my own personality. Now that I'm older I find it much easier to be close to them, but those critical years in your 20's are when it's normal to tell your parents to bug off.
92
I went to public schools, grew up in a poor working class rural town. When it was time to go to college I didn't know what an SAT or ACT was, this was in 1984. My mother worked an agricultural job and had no idea what it meant to go to college. My father was illiterate, drove a truck for work and was a man I rarely saw.
No one knew what to do and I think my mother believed that our HS would take care of the college stuff. By the time I graduated from HS we had lost half the original freshman class and my HS seemed to care less.
I got into college with the help of a football coach (thanks Dean) and went on to get an MA and PhD. I received no financial help from family in paying for school or for my living expenses after I left home.
Looking back, I can say that above all my mother and aunt (who both raised me) gave me their love. Always. There is no way to repay them except to give the same to my children, always.
I do help my kids pay some for their schooling and help fix their cars when I can. I give them advice. I give them my concern. But their lives, as my mother taught me, are their own.
126
This article is disdainful of adults helping upcoming generations. It is trying to reinforce a norm of atomized life that is antithetical to communal well-being.
Until capitalism demanded that labor become mobile, family life was local and parochial. Whether the familial presence was supportive or stifling, you had access to it. And one of the most important ways to help was connecting kids with job experiences. People are re-discovering the advantage of communal life, where multiple generations support each other even if they may not be able to cohabit. It is a natural reaction to the inhuman pressures of overpopulation and capitalism, but a benefit for family cohesion.
138
@Dextrous - Yes. Thank you for saying that.
3
Yuck
6
Yet another damning article on "helicopter parents." Enough already!
Yes, some of the items on the survey show that a minority of parents insert themselves into situations when they obviously should not. On the list of interactions listed on the survey, a number of items could easily pertain to middle-aged children of senior-aged parents, e.g., offering them advice on relationships and romantic life; helping them get jobs through professional networks; or giving more than $500 per month for rent or daily expenses (if economic circumstances warrant it).
The economic downturn of 2007-8 forced many people to turn to their parents for advice and occasionally economic assistance. The amount of student debt that children in the the selected age group has now reached a level unseen in the past (now more than national credit card debt).
It would be interesting to see Morning Consult survey senior-aged parents to discover how much assistance they are giving their middle-aged children at this point. Or perhaps conduct another survey on how middle-aged parents assist their senior-aged parents.
Positive familial relationships are characterized by never having to say "you don't matter to me anymore." Healthy inter-generational bonds have long advanced not only the family's stability, but the stability of our nation. Apparently, it seems that it is no longer fashionable to laud these supportive and loving ties.
69
@wysiwyg
Thank you! Your comments expressed exactly what I was thinking after finishing the article. I am so tired of this constant war on parenting styles.
5
If you bring your dad to your job interview, you probably won't get the job. Big red flag!
27
@Samuel Russell if Buffet/Gates junior brought his dad to the interview he will get the job on the spot. Just depends how rich/connected your daddy is.
10
correction ! I never wrote anything for my kids or contacted an employer.
2
Enjoy all comments regarding “rugged individualism”, “pulling yourself up by the bootstraps”, “walking in the snow, uphill, both ways”, “kids these days”, “back in my day”.
Inspiring.
27
I find it pathetic that adults, often with children of their own, come in to see me, an attorney, with their "Mommy" and "Daddy" in tow. They are adults because they are over 18 years of age, but they are utterly incapable of making decisions and refuse to suffer any consequences for the choices they make in their lives. And I've seen this in adults in their '40's. When will they cut their apron strings?
45
I am blown away by the 11% of respondents who said they contacted their adult children's place of employment. For me, were I the employer, they'd be doing their kid no favors since it would cause me a load of doubt about the competence of the person I hired.
119
@ChrisH As a manager, that would be a clear sign that the employee is unable to advocate for themselves or problem solve independently. To call this behavior a red flag is an understatement.
27
so my mom giving me dating advice is a bad thing now?
I didn't realize I was supposed to never supposed to talk to her again once I turned 18 (when I was still in high school, btw)
77
@catherine
My mom doesn't give me dating advice, but if I remarry half as well as she did, I won't be doing badly, that's for sure!
Seriously. People act as if they have nothing at all to learn from their parents. I was kind of a jerk in my 20s and 30s. In my 40s, I am undergoing a renaissance in terms of how I see my mother and step-father. I am really enjoying being friends with my mother in a way which I have not since I was a teen.
4
@catherine I am in my mid-forties and married. My mom still gives me relationship advice whether I ask for it or not. So did my Grandma.
1
Feel free to let your own children grow up wild in today's unforgiving economic environment. I choose to watch my kid's back. Did it ever occur to you that the young people who are "more anxious and less self-reliant" also happen to be facing a much less economically promising future than we did?
Unless you graduated from college in this century, don't bother lecturing us how you put yourself through college working part-time, and how you were admitted to Harvard and Yale without doing anything besides being smart. It's a different world.
205
Yes, getting help cheating your way into an elite school has now become an actual service industry.
32
@Madeline Conant Exactly. I admit to surprise when my recently graduated science student came back from an interview with a job offer from the technical manager.....nice starting job, but it paid so little that it would be a camper in the parking lot, not enough to rent a room with an hour of the job. HR suggested couch surfing, and was disappointed that their time was wasted putting the package together. Frankly prison guard paid more, and didn't require the University degree. Scrooge is alive and well.
58
@Madeline Conant Thanks for your comment. I graduated college right on time in 2011. I'm currently back in Physician Assistant school that should allow me to live a very comfortable life. But in between I've only been able to find employment working at a lower middle class wage. This wage would never allow me to afford a home and would cause significant financial strain if I chose to start a family. There are so many bright young people who are willing to work hard but literally cannot make enough money to be completely independent.
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This sounds depressing. When I left home for college in 1982, I couldn't wait to be out on my own and away from my parents. I craved independence. Who wants to hang out with their parents for their whole life?
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I see this is my own family with my sibling's kids. These kids totally depend on mom and dad well into adulthood. The parents have not done these "kids" any favors. They are tethered to the nest where they can find mommy and daddy always willing to tell them how wonderful they are. Glad they aren't mine.
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My father, rest his soul, paid tuition for me for my first 3 years in a state college. This in the late 60's. The thing he did not do was try to live my life for me. He let me make mistakes--and, let me tell you, I made them. I learned from that.
Wanting your children to do well, is what every parent wants. My dad wanted this, but he knew that any success I had should be due to my efforts, not his. However, he was always there for advice and council should it become necessary. Due to the fundamental building blocks he provided, I came rarely came back for anything but his love.
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I think it is much more difficult to separate financially from parents post-college now than it was when I got out of school in the 1970s. Just one example -- back then, without employer-provided health care benefits, I could pay a minimal amount for catastrophic coverage and didn't worry that a visit to the doctor was going to cost more me than I made in a week. These days even a minor medical complaint costs a fortune, and a young adult who's not working for a large employer is also often paying substantial premiums for an individual high-deductible health insurance plan that only offers benefits after thousands of dollars have been shelled out. I was so glad we could keep our kids on my husband's excellent employer-provided family plan as long as we could. And don't get me started on landlords who demand an extensive credit history or co-signer, first and last month's rent, along with a security deposit for that first shabby and often shared apartment.
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@SML right -the hoops required for renting are astonishing
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My son is in Pittsburgh, working a great job he somehow obtained, on his own, while traveling the backwoods of Brazil. I am in awe of his resourcefulness and drive.
I am also glad that we could keep him on our health insurance past his college years. If we can assist him in other ways, we will.
I am very conscious of the fact that my wife and I are able to assist if need be while other families are less resourceful. I am grateful for this, and humbled.
We did not pay for tutors in high school, nor did we pay for test preparation or do anything but point out egregious errors on his college essays. We were concentrated on getting him to graduate high school. To say he was not an enthusiastic student then would be very kind.
He has done more than muddle through. He has figured out that life is about learning all the time.
I am gratified to see him work with other young men and women who never even thought to go to college or, if they did, never considered so-called "elite" schools.
The sooner this country comes under the leadership of this generation, the better the future will be for their children. The future will be for these young men and women.
The Ivy League grads can retreat to their enclaves and lament their increasing irrelevance.
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Many of the cited parental supports in the article are, frankly, what any responsible parent should at least consider providing their "adult" children as part of the parenting process. The issue is where to draw the line."Reminding adult children....making appointments, calling/texting to remind them, contacting an employer..." are pretty egregious examples over "overparenting" a young adult. But responsible parenting is as much art as common sense. Assisting a young adult in developing social, study or work skills is a far cry from doing their work for them. For some parents (as reported in today's news) paying their child's way into college is more an indictment of a parent's personal insecurity and lack of confidence in their child's abilities to develop a sense of mastery on their own in the world. Most parents will and should use as many resources as possible to help their children "advance and succeed", but there is no substitute for teaching them self reliance.
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My parents did none of the things listed except pay the tuition for my first semester. No dating advice, reminders, interference in my higher education or employment, or whatever.
They cared deeply about all of their children. They also had their own lives to lead, and believed we should have ours. What they did give us was themselves: fine examples of people who worked hard, respected others, and led kind, decent lives. Better than cash.
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We see it in the current generation of children and have doubts it will do much other than foster dependency. Our own weren't as independent as we were at their age and we are concerned we didn't do enough but still cut the apron strings early. Perhaps the best job we did was convincing them to never be afraid to ask for advice or help. Now, the issue is being a grandparent where the urge to offer advice on how to raise an independent person is even greater. Luckily, the grand children and their friends like the advice for the most part and will ask questions.
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18 is a lot different than 28. My twins turned 18 while still in high school so that makes me guilty of everything on the list? I agree that parents need to step back but show some useful ages to assess the issue. Also, what's wrong with discussing careers and relationships with your child, regardless of age, is there no value to the experiences of others who are older and have more experience?
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@ellen, I don't know your situation, but I would never rely on my parents to guide me in my professional career when I was 18. In fact, I was pursuing a technological career and my father was a pastor and my mother taught elementary school. Yes, I would tell them what I was doing. Yes, I would pay attention to their love of studying and books and would follow suit - I may have outpaced them in reading books. However, they wouldn't know how to guide me in the brave new world I was entering as the first of my family. The advice I give to my younger relatives today? Follow your hearts, because you raise the chance of being good at what you do, be a hard student/worker and try to be a good fellow. You cannot guarantee your future, but you may be happy in the meantime, even if not all the time.
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@Ademario Concur in part. I was the first in family to go beyond high school so there was no help other than moral support. It was true for my cousins as well. Our entire family went from no college degrees to all but one cousin with college degrees including graduate degrees for most of us.
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@Ademario
When my daughters were freshmen in high school I encouraged them to apply for a summer internship in a nursing home b/c I thought the application process itself would be a good experience even if they didn't get the internship (application, interview, recommendation). I also thought the internship would be good (they did get them) - and what else would a 14 year old do all summer except cost me money to entertain, lol. One of my daughters loved it, volunteered throughout high school and college, studied gerontology and now is in law school hoping to prosecute elder abuse. Guess what, she credits me for helping her find her path. p.s. the other daughter also did the internship, didn't love it and took another path. But that's great, too. As a parent and high school teacher, I think parents should communicate with their kids.
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Of course parenting doesn’t stop. It’s any person‘s primary and, if everything goes well, most stable and reliable relationship. As long as the parent-child relationship eventually morphs into a mutually beneficial relationship between adults, I don’t see a problem with that. Having said that, the time to teach kids how to fail is way before age 18 (ideally you start when they are toddlers). If they miss a deadline in 5th grade, that’s not going to be of any real consequence down the line, but it’ll teach them to be responsible for their own stuff and bounce back after receiving negative feedback. As long as parents actually step back and allow the child to bear the consequences.
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I grew up in Queens, NY and attended SUNY Buffalo from 1978 through 1982. I had to attend a state university because our family's financial situation precluded attending a private school. I chose Buffalo because it was the farthest I could get away from a chaotic home and still stay within the state. I paid for tuition and books through grants and loans (it took me 10 years to pay off following graduation), but my mother gave me a small allowance and paid for transportation back and forth during breaks. There was no internet and no cell phones. About a month or so into school, my roommate and I already were not getting along. I called my mother crying, telling her I'd had it and I wanted to come home. She told me "NO," and I need to figure it out. I was shocked because she had never been that firm with me before. I ended up settling in, finding a circle of friends and looking back, I have fond memories of college. And the roommate - she left shorty after I made the call to my mother. My mother telling me I couldn't come home was one of the best things she ever did for me.
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@Andrea
I appreciate your description here and can see the sense in it. I can also see how your mother empowered you by her response. I’m responding to you because you’ve encapsulated the benefits of independence well in your comment.
This article is setting up a hyperbolic situation though. Should dad show up to job interview? Ummm, no. Of course we should teach our children to stand, but we also shouldn’t stigmatize those who need extra help, or feel we shouldn’t ask if we do, or help our adult children. What we’re discussing here are purely cultural mores, and there are plenty of cultures in the world that promote close, even co-dependent (in the best sense) relationships across generations. Our insistence on independence here in America is actually an outlier compared to the rest of the world.
4
@Andrea The bootstraps approach doesn't always work. In 1984 I was a freshman in a dorm far from home and had a terrible roommate experience. I was independent minded, yet couldn't handle it myself, and nobody offered to help. In short, I was miserable, and it took a long time to recover. I have never looked back on this as a good experience and have only felt neglect.
2