I was delighted by the new meat substitute Beyond Burger until I read on the packaging that the ingredients were sourced globally. When I contacted the company to enquire as to which countries were sourcing the ingredients I was told that this was proprietary information. Why the shroud of secrecy?
8
Check out Peace Pilgrim, an American Saint who walked across the country talking about peace. Her motto was if she wouldn't do it herself she wouldn't ask others to do it for her. She said she wouldn't kill an animal so she wouldn't ask anyone else to do it for her, either. Of course, she was a vegetarian. Her book made me think of all the people who work in these slaughterhouses killing animals, what a terrible job it must be for them. These places are another by-product of huge food corporations that place profit before the welfare of others. Small family farms are disappearing as these huge food conglomerates swallow them up. If we really cared about the health of our country, we would vote for programs that promote and help small family farms and everything would be organic so that all people, regardless of wealth, could eat food that had (hopefully) no Monsanto pesticides and pharma antibiotics in it.
6
I stopped eating meat after reading Peter Singer’s book Animal Liberation some 30 years ago. In a factual and unbiased manner, he describes how animals are treated on industrialized farms, and he lays out the ethical issues surrounding the consumption of meat. I am not against eating animals per se, but I am against the egregious cruelty that is an accepted part of business on industrial farms. In theory, I would eat the meat of an animal that was raised and killed with respect, but in reality, we almost never know where meat comes from or how the animal was treated. So, as a short cut, I just say I’m vegetarian. For me, it really was not hard to give up meat. There are so many other good things to eat!
9
Now that scientific studies show that pigs are smarter than dogs, that chickens can count, and that fish have social relationship it is time to move away from eating animals. The new alternatives will be better for the planet and our health. The World Health Organization classifies processed meat as a level 1 carcinogen and red meat as a level 2 carcinogen. I'd much rather eat a Beyond burger!
10
Mr. Friedrich's final thought says it all. Human nature will always trend toward greater health, even in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds like the weight of religion (Adventists, etc) and the grains and sugar industry. Until there's proof that fake "meat" provides health benefits to humans, identical or surpassing that of animal-sourced foods, it just ain't gonna fly—nor should it.
1
What about the weight of the meat, dairy, or egg industries, in that case? :)
3
Many human activities have their roots in ancient history: slavery, infanticide, murder of the elderly, laws treating women and children as property. The world is better for having abandoned most of those primitive practices, just as it will be when we give up eating the flesh of other sentient creatures.
Why do we eat animals that feel pain and experience fear? Kudos to Bruce Friedrich for providing alternatives to the environmental damage and toll on human health caused by our consumption of meat.
13
Sadly, Mr. Friedrich, based on his past support of "humane" meat, desire to encourage vegans to not be so strict about small amounts of animal ingredients in foods when eating out and now his endorsement of lab meat which still requires killing some animals, is not a good example of an animal rights activist.
Sacrificing some for the greater cause is not without moral consequences.
Being authentically vegan means respecting the lives of all beings.
Although lab meat may be considered environmentally friendly, it would not be friendly to human health for most of the same reasons as animal flesh from slaughter.
Being mindful of what we eat is an example of respecting human life as we are included in all beings.
“We need to change the meat, because we aren’t going to change human nature,” Mr. Friedrich said.
It appears in order to truly and effectively respect life and to encourage respect and peace among humans, we do have a need to change human nature.
For those who find this to some degree sensible, please look into reading "The World Peace Diet" by Will Tuttle PhD
2
Several companies are working on producing cultured meat without fetal bovine serum (e.g. Meatable, JUST, Future Meat Technologies), and I would think the nutritional composition of cultured meat can be adjusted much more precisely than that from a live animal.
I'm not sure what you mean by needing to change human nature or how long that would take, but in the meantime I'd be happy for meat-eaters to have options to choose from that contribute less to animal suffering or environmental damage, plant-based or otherwise. :)
4
@Jeff
the very good isn't the enemy of the perfect.
there are almost 8 billion of us not so sapient homos on the planet. most of that increase comes from folks living in 3rd world countries. and they're clamoring to eat more meat and seafood like their wealthier brethren in richer countries. that's where the sharpest uptick in per-capita consumption is coming from.
the entire article is about the premise that your final sentence just hasn't worked for the masses, it's not about education.
and surely you know that factory farms are among the biggest contributors to climate change and environmental degradation. if we don't make progress on this issue, the way things are trending, there might not be any need for the type of perfectionism you're advocating. we won't survive, nor will the cows or chickens.
basically Friedrich used to think like you do, sans the sentimentality but with his self-professed German rationalism. he moved on, the question is will you?
or maybe you can start your own organizations grounded in perfectionist veganism, good luck changing the mindsets of 7 billion folks overnight.
2
If one decides not to eat meat, must ersatz meat be the answer? A food concocted in a lab? Something is wrong with this picture. What happened to "Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much"? And maybe leave out the meat.
2
It doesn't have to be, but it can be for those who don't want to leave out the meat. :)
3
I’ve noticed that meat alternatives such as Beyond and Impossible Burgers are more expensive than meat. Why is that? And why does the tofu entree in a restaurant cost as much as the pork tenderloin? The markup on vegetarian options appears much greater than on those featuring meat. I for one won’t pay steak prices for soy.
2
Demand and supply and economies of scale, I would say. When people want more and more of it and they can start to produce it on the same scale as their animal counterparts, the prices should naturally fall - and I think having large meat companies like Tyson Foods investing in them can really help with that (as does Bruce Friedrich, for which he received plenty of flak from both meat-eaters and vegans as the article notes).
Where I live, we have strong cultural traditions of vegetarianism among some ethnic groups and you can find plant-based options for pretty cheap, although we do have our fancy restaurants serving up Beyond and Impossible meats as well. Personally I'd rather stick to my tofu at a fraction of the price, but the latter is also fun to try once in a while and if it gives meat-lovers a plant-based option they like, all the better.
6
also the restaurants have a bit of a monopolistic hostage situation. tofu is cheaper than steak- period- unless you're eating some really cheap dead cow. but a vegetarian in a restaurant mostly catering to carnivores doesn't have much say in the matter.
prices are already falling for the Beyond and Impossible fake meats, simple economy of scale. you can find the former at Carl's Jr. joints for a couple dollars more than the regular dead cow burgers. might not seem like much, but it's the first fast food franchise to offer them on the menu. prior you'd have to pay at least 12 dollars to get that Beyond burger at a restaurant.
it's a bit like solar panels, or computers. prices will only fall as the scale ratchets up. wait til they reach price parity then you'll really see the meat industry shrieking their heads off.
2
I’d be delighted to try Beyond and Impossible burgers and similar foods, but they are ridiculously expensive and hard to find where I live.
3
try Carl's Junior, they just started carrying the Beyond burger.
the cows think carnivore's decision to treat them horribly at factory farms before they're slaughtered so folks can have ridiculously cheap burgers has been ridiculously expensive, as far as they're concerned.
1
I was vegetarian for 20 years and had to finally give up my dogmatic belief, because I could not be healthy on this diet.
There is no food created without the taking of life, if you plough a field you are destroying the habitat of rodents, insects, birds and other animals. Yes, our industrialized food system is out of balance and unhealthy. Cows are designed to eat grass not soy or other unnatural feed.
I'd rather we focus on creating healthy environment- clean air and water, no toxic chemicals and a diet with the right amount of animal products. I get food from a small farmer, the animals have a happy, healthy life. I think it is natural for animals to consume other animals, it's the cycle of life. It's no more wrong for a human to eat an animal that it is for another animal.
10
@lkos
Then shouldn't humans be included in the food chain?
The animals raised by your small farmer are happy to die before their natural lifespan is even approached?
The fact is there isn't a human on the planet whose health wouldn't benefit from eating a whole foods plant based diet.
10
@Jeff
All the animals I eat consume plants. I am eating, by extension, a plant-based diet.
2
You don't have to be dogmatic about being vegetarian or vegan - I would think that makes it harder on yourself and others around you. I don't know your situation and can't speak for you of course, but I know many people who have lived healthily on plant-based diets for 20 years or more, and the science supports the health effects of well-planned plant-based diets too.
Unlike some of the louder voices we may have come across (and I've had my fair share of arguments with them), most of the vegetarians and vegans I know in real life acknowledge that you cannot practically produce or consume food without causing some harm to some animals in some way. A plant-based diet isn't a miracle solution, but it does tend to require less land, produce less waste, and leave a lower carbon footprint. We don't have to be perfect (or pretend to), but we can still strive to make informed choices given the options we practically have for the kind of world we want to leave behind. :)
4
A very interesting and informative article. I discuss the Impossible Burger with my Biology 101 students and a large majority would not want to try it ever, because they believe that it is not FDA approved and thus not safe, and uses GMO technology (yeast produces plant leghemoglobin) to make the potato starch/protein taste like medium rare steak. Factory produced foods (including lab grown meat) are not the future, this is what the young kids say.
4
The FDA only hasn't yet approved the sale of the uncooked burger in grocery stores because it regards the use of heme as a "colour additive" which requires a separate approval process, which Impossible has filed for and which seems unlikely to be rejected especially after the ingredient has already been approved for use ib the cooked versions sold in restaurants.
What do your young kids think about the science behind GMO food safety?
2
Humans have a hard time not putting themselves at the top of decision-making with justifications too long to list here. Going vegan requires thinking through many issues: diet, climate, animal rights, years of "favorite" foods and memories.
My husband and I transitioned gradually to vegan and have come to believe eating something that was tortured does indeed create bad energy. We entertain vegan without making a big deal of it, yet guests are continually surprised at how much they enjoy meals, asking for recipes ( not just being polite). Vegans need to invite non-vegans for dinner and wow them with what is possible. Can be done economically and reasonably too. Feels quite right.
9
My diet is largely vegetarian, however I don't think eating meat is necessarily bad -- humans are omnivores after all. The great problem is how brutally animals are treated in the process of slaughtering them. If humane treatment of animals was rigidly enforced the cost of meat would increase and the consumption would greatly decrease. I think an economic approach would work better than appeals to morality or concern for the environment.
12
Lab grown meat comes from harvested fetal cells from a living animal. It might be better for the planet, but if you are looking to avoid cruelty, this is not the way to go.
5
There are companies working to develop ways to culture meat without fetal bovine serum. The website doesn't seem to let me post links, but you may wish to check out some of the work by Meatable, JUST, and Future Meat Technologies for example. :)
3
Bruce going after people who eat meat is noble. No doubt that this industry contributes to global warming.
His efforts mean nothing unless he (and other other environmental activists) go after men who fail to wrap their own erect meat in a condom prior to sexual intercourse.
Overpopulation cancels any progress made by a vegetarian diet.
10
"The work has turned Mr. Friedrich, 49, into a spokesman of sorts for people who came to realize that making others feel bad about eating meat does not make them consume less of it."
Always good to hear that someone grows up and realizes that changing people's habits and culture takes more than scaring models or trying to gross out fast-food customers. For people who think that showing fake dead animals will work, it doesn't. I know where meat comes from, and I've killed and eaten plenty of fish I've caught. Yet I'm eating less of both as I recognize the enormous stress human appetite is putting on the planet.
Asking is better than telling. Providing alternatives that make switching away from something fairly easy will get better results than shaming. Keep up the pressure, but pleasantly, and helpfully.
9
Yesterday, I ate beef from a bull that lived and was grassfed and finished in my county, eating plants that I cannot. While alive, he contributed fertility to the soil and recycled nutrients to improve his pasture. The money I paid direct to the farmer was kept local.
I would be more impressed by the mission and work behind
Beyond Burgers and Impossible Meats if they were, you know, actually sustainable. As it stands, they are 1) heavily processed, 2) full of exotic imported ingredients (like palm oil) which are farmed in fragile ecosystems and contribute to mass extinctions of endangered animals, and 3) contain a lot of travel miles and packaging waste. Consider the orangutan, not just the cow.
15
@Griffin I respect your point of view though I questions some of assertion (live stock are feed more than inedible plants they are feed, soy, grains and animal proteins among others), however there is more to consider, the health care cost of the modern diet, the environmental impact of methane gas released from live stock, the impact of pesticides leaking into ground water and surface water ect.ect. So I agree let us consider the total impact of what we do, what we eat and how we treat one another and while we will not agree on every point I am still hopeful that reasonable people will agree on the most important point and then let's have the courage to make changes if necessary even to our most cherished traditions.
2
I think we could consider more than just the orangutan or the cow. Unfortunately, most people don't eat beef produced in a truly sustainable and regenerative way (many pasture-raising systems aren't necessarily better for the environment either), and we would likely require a prohibitive amount of land in order to produce all of our meat that way. As it stands, cattle ranching in the Amazon already takes up more cleared forest than palm oil in Indonesia.
Beyond and Impossible products don't solve all our environmental products by themselves, but on balance they still require much less land and water and generate a much lower carbon footprint as compared to conventional beef production. But of course, there remains much more that we can do. :)
(Palm oil is another complex issue in itself: they are farmed in areas of high biodiversity and so threaten the survival of many species, including the orangutan - but they also produce much more oils on much less land than virtually all other oil crops. According to a recent IUCN report, simply boycotting or replacing palm oil with some other oil may not necessarily help solve the problem, and may merely displace rather than halt the deforestation instead.)
2
@eehill Nowadays, much of the discussion surrounding the current ill health of our society—at least regarding the SAD diet—is zeroing-in on processed foods that contribute to insulin resistance, NOT animal-sourced foods.
Fast food joints are a lot of mass meat eating problem, and a difficult one to address for reasons of practically. For working parents with children charging in the door ‘starving’ it is such an easy option. Veganism and vegetarianism requires regular cooking if you want to remain healthy. I know a few vegetarians and they are all overweight because they rely heavily on dairy and sugar to get that boost of energy. Eating dairy is not vegetarianism. I have been macrobiotic in the past, but it was not sustainable in my changed world without a personal chef. I bet Tom Brady has one, but most vegetarians don’t. Worldwide veganism is likely unattainable, but reducing meat meals to one or two a week from small humane farms is surely the best we can hope for.
2
@Susan
Come to my vegan kitchen. I'll cook you a meal that will make you wonder why you ever consumed animal flesh to begin with!
7
People eat monkeys, whales, puppies, and ponies because they taste good. It's a choice they make.
4
Why so many angry comments on here?
3
Did Mr Friedrich apologize to the models that he assaulted by spraying fake-blood on them? Did Mr Friedrich apologize to the organizers of the fashion shows he disrupted which are source of employment to a lot of people? What Mr Friedrich calls “activism” looks like assault to me. We don’t need violence to make the world a better place. Is Mr Friedrich conscious of the violence he practiced against other human beings?
5
I grew up eating meat and potatoes---except for the days I ate potatoes and meat. Like almost every vegan/vegetarian my journey began with a simple concept: I started to think.
That was over 30 years ago. No animal has spent their life in misery only to be murdered so that I could eat their seared flesh since I had that first thought.
In addition to sparing sentient beings from slaughter I have enjoyed personal health benefits. I have also learned that forgoing meat is the single greatest change that anyone can make in the battle against climate change.
Meat production and meat eating is not just killing animals---it is killing the planet.
Even if you cannot commit to a plant based diet at least try "Meatless Monday." It is a great place to start.
26
We went "vegan" about a year ago. Mainly because my cholesterol was sky high. I tested at 305 total when I made my decision and in 2 months of eatting plant based that same total cholesterol number was 235. Still too high but a huge improvement considering I took no statins. And all my markers improved, including my triglycerides (from above to within healthy range) and cholesterol (my bad cholesterol dropped over 70 points).
An important aspect of this plant based diet is the fiber intake. I believe it's a key to good health and the main "missing ingredient" in today's food. I have increased my fiber from about 15 -25 grams per day to 45-60 grams.
And yet, we find the "vegan" approach is too extreme. Yes almost all animal products offered in today's supermarkets are factory produced. Not the healthiest choice for either you or the environment. But, humans have a long relationship with meats an we don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water.
So, we allow meat products once a week. We call it "meat me Fridays". And during this one day we eat animal products. The animal products we eat are from what we consider sustainable sources. Say the goat cheese from a local producer. Or a piece of pork raised on a small local farm.
Our approach cuts out almost 100% of the factory farm animal products, while promoting sustainable healthy local food supplies. And while our health is the main benefactor, the environment also gets a break.
7
While I welcome these types of alternative food institutes, I think part of the solution is already available. To improve your health and protect/save animals on our precious planet, begin by adopting an Indian vegetarian diet. It's super healthy and delicious!
4
Read some history. Humans have always been carnivores when plant based food was scarce. It was a matter of survival. We all know there are protein alternatives, but the era when medical "experts" began maligning the cholesterol content of dairy products and eggs was when we focused on meat. People will only stop eating it when it becomes too expensive.
1
I don't think Bruce Friedrich argues that humans cannot eat meat, or that eating meat in any quantity will cause harm to your health. :) The science is quite clear that consuming too much of certain foods can contribute to certain diseases, though.
2
Vegan will sell to the masses when it has all the nutrients of meat, isn't all beans all the time, tastes good without having to add lots of sugar and salt, and it's easy to replace in current recipes that call for meat. I'm not interested in lab grown meat, yuck.
@Missy I recommend that you try "Beyond Burgers" by Beyond Meat. They taste like the best char-broiled burgers that I have ever tasted and are nutritionally rich without the sugar, salt or cholesterol.
5
@Missy Have you tried lab-grown meat? What makes you say "yuck"?
I don't know about what options you can or cannot find where you live, but I've eaten plenty of plant-based foods that check all those boxes, too. :)
4
The first world, especially America, eats far too much meat. One serving of organic, humanely raised meat is all that one human body needs per day. I have tried and very much want to be a vegetarian, but due to health issues I cannot. I encourage anyone who can live on a vegetarian (or vegan) diet to do so, for the health of the planet and for animals.
5
Been a vegetarian for 30 years. Do not miss meat at all. I did it for two reasons; stop the needless abuse and slaughter of animals and eat a more healthy diet. There are just so many alternatives to meat that there is no logical reason to consume animals. The big benefit to not eating meat is leading a more healthy and longer life. I am 77 and have no health issues. I think that I would be in my grave if I did not stop eating meat.
9
Yuck. Fake processed and engineered 'meat.' No thank you. I support local family farms who raise their animals humanely. They are the future we should be looking at. Eat REAL food. Not too much. Mostly plants.
3
But why not? Have you tried? :)
2
So liberals want us to eat his fake meat but not GMO plants? No sense there.
5
@James
This liberal isn't necessarily in favor of lab meat. I am in favor of eating vegetables without Roundup genetically modified into their makeup, and I also am in favor of you not going to non-stop all you can eat meat buffets.
7
@James Do you think liberals or conservatives speak with one voice, or that Bruce Friedrich opposes using technology to grow meat but not plants? :)
I prefer to base my opinions on the evidence, personally.
2
@Jess I'm not aware of any GE crops that have Roundup genetically modified into their makeup, actually. You may be confusing Roundup Ready crops (engineered to resist Roundup, not express it) with Bt crops (engineered to express the Bt toxin, a pesticide harmless to humans that organic farms also liberally use on their crops).
Regardless, there also hasn't been any scientific evidence that consuming GE foods causes harm to human health. Much of the concern seems to arise from the pesticide usage (Roundup) rather than the GE crops themselves, but while they may cause harm to lab rats, cells in petri dishes, or people occupationally exposed to very high levels of the pesticide, they don't seem to have had any measurable harms on human consumers as far as I'm aware.
I knew someone with a family farm that raised Black Angus. He said that the animals knew that they would be slaughtered and that they noticed when one was taken away. He said that they hated people and would kill you if they had a chance and that you had to be super careful around them.
11
This is the right tact. And although there will be initial loss of family farms there should be a national organization around co-oping smaller farms around the whole country so that they provide and supply a national food system and are well compensated. They need to be national goals standards. Sadly this part is the fantasy for now.But I admire and I am intrigued by this man’s concepts.
9
@CJ
aka: socialism. Remember how well those 5 year plans worked out?
Unfortunately, human beings are not built to avoid meat. Those who only eat a meat-free diet end up with serious health problems. I know of someone who almost died in his 20s after his intestines were blocked with too much fiber. Another one who was a vegetarian all his life is seriously ill now in his 70s with digestive problems. Personally, I find red and chicken meat repulsive. So, I eat fish and eggs.
4
@ART Your statement that people eating a meat-free diet end up with health problems is not true. It is entirely possible to eat a plant-based diet and be healthier than meat eaters. There are many examples of people who choose to give up meat and successfully improve their health. There are also examples of those who give up meat and continue to eat unhealthy foods. The fact is that mass production of beef and chicken involves mistreatment of animals, still.
27
@ART I've been a 80%vegan 100%vegetarian for over 30 years. I'm now in my 50's and, knock wood, have avoided doctors since my teens. If I end up with digestive problems in my 70's, which it seems every carnivore in my family suffers from, so be it.
6
@ART Of course you can be unhealthy on a plant-based diet, just as you can be unhealthy on an omnivorous diet. But how many of those who eat a meat-free diet end up with serious health problems, as compared to those who do not? How about in countries and cultures with long historical traditions of vegetarianism?
What does the science say about the health effects of well-planned plant-based diets? :)
5
RE: Bruce Friedrich used to be the guy who broke into fashion shows to splatter fake blood on the models wearing fur coats. ....But he realized at a certain point that his activism wasn’t achieving his goal... These days, he is hoping capitalism might work where activism and persuasion fell short.
Is it the view of the reporter or Friedrich or both of them that intentional criminal activity is "activism?"
5
I love a big, juicy, fat dripping hamburger or steak. I can also enjoy a two/three day a week meatless diet.
5
@First Last If you want to eat a great burger, try the "Beyond Burgers." I am not a total vegetarian (about 80%) but I will eat one of these over most burgers any time.
2
@First Last How about cultured meat, then? :)
I am not a vegan nor am I a vegetarian. I am not 'an' anything. That said, I love my veggie burgers (though many commercially produced bands have too much sodium, IMO). I never cook (or even have) meat or poultry at home, eat a mainly plant based diet including peanut butter, nuts, legumes, and lots of fruits & veggies. I also drink milk & eat yogurt (Greek is an excellent source of protein, especially the plain w/o all that jam nonsense in the bottom).
I care about animals and do not want them to suffer. Some would make me into a pariah for using dairy, but I find it necessary for my health. The latter is always my main concern.
That said, I am also a person who never cared one way or the other about meat. I eat it in someone else's home, if it's served to me, though not much of it because I'm not used to it. I do think people in general would be better off health wise if less meat was consumed. That, in turn would, of course, be better for the animals.
16
Thanks, but I’ll continue to eat nutrient-rich meat and fish, rather than some factory-created soy product.
6
@FlipFlop
Eat what you like, but there are many vegetable based products which have just as many nutrients (and as much protein) as meat & fish - and without the saturated fats of many meats.
14
@FlipFlop Beyond Meat burgers are made with pea protein, not soy, and they are delicious. I had one last night for dinner as a matter of fact. Better than a beef burger IMO, but I've never been a big fan of beef.
1
@FlipFlop There are also many factory-created meat products and many nutrient-rich soy products, too. :)
Human beings are omnivore creatures, eating plants most of the time, and meat when they can find some. Being vegetarian is not the normal state of man.
6
@Catherine
Humans living packed together in cities is not "the normal state of man," either. Should we therefore abandon cities? Nor is taking antibiotics or using vaccines "the normal state of man." Should we abandon those? Point is, your argument isn't valid.
28
@Catherine it is my observation from trying to be vegan several times in my life that just has actors have ranges so do people. It is within some peoples range to be able to be a vegan and thrive. I do not know what percentage of the population that is. those who cannot be vegan such as myself, the amount of meat I need to eat is one cubic inch a day. That’s it. According to the USDA, the average adult eats 250 pounds of meat a year. I eat a small fraction of that and thrive.
2
neither is using smartphones :)
9
I think we need to educate people on the environmental impact of our protein choices. When the world was sparsely populated, beef may have been an OK choice, but science shows that per gram of protein, beef demands the greatest amount of resources and emits the greatest amount of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. We are stressing our environment. We need to talk about this from a sustainability standpoint.
26
@Marie Agreed. Unfortunately I think most of the people who exclaim "Mmm, bacon" really don't give a hoot about the environment.
5
There's room for all kinds of activism on behalf of animals who died for our plates. if you're in Los Angeles or other major cities like Toronto come out to L.A.Pig Save or Chicken Save or Cow Save and be with the animals as a witness in their final moments.
14
@Wayne Johnson PhD
Do you really think that cow or pig cares?
2
@James
Any animal cares about not being killed as much as you do James
2
Lots of misinformation here. Vegans do not live longer, in fact many are unhealthy. Meat does not make you fat and it does not cause cancer. Soy causes cancer. "Cute" is about the best word I can think of to describe the anti science that goes into the vegan belief system. It's really just a religion substitute complete with much of the same dogmas.
11
Could you provide some credible scientific sources showing that consuming soy foods increases cancer risk in humans? Not soy compounds, not isolated soy compounds, not lab rats, but actual soy foods consumed by human beings. What does the science say? :)
What else does the science say about the health effects of a well-planned plant-based diet? What about health and nutrition organisations such as the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics?
13
*soy supplements
1
Could you provide some credible scientific sources showing that consuming soy foods increases cancer risk in humans? Not soy supplements, not isolated soy compounds, not in lab rats, but actual soy foods consumed by human beings. What does the science say? :)
What does the science also say about the health effects of well-planned plant-based diets? How about health and nutrition organisations such as the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics?
2
Shaming people for eating a diet our teeth indicate we have evolved to ingest does not work. If activists could convince every person in United States to enjoy one meatless meal per week, the effect could be monumental. The New York City public school system is leading the way in this regard by rolling out "Meatless Mondays" for the coming fall. Vegetarian meals will be provided for breakfast and lunch to 1.1 million school children. Showing children that vegetarian options are healthy and delicious will no doubt bring about changes in many households.
12
I don't know if the evidence indicates our teeth evolved to ingest meat (many herbivorous species have canines, too), but I agree that humans can definitely eat some meat and live healthily on well-planned non-vegan diets just as on vegan diets, and an inclusive, reducetarian approach would work for more people.
2
@Ellie S. I've seen what the lunch looks like and it's almost entirely sugars and starches. Poor kids.
Once you become conscious - you begin to naturally lose your desire to eat animals. The higher self has no need to embrace suffering on any level & you respect and embrace all forms of life -
Buddhism promotes right thought right action - & -a life of service for others including living your life ~for the benefit of All Beings
21
@yogaheals Total nonsense. Every ounce of our existence relies upon our ancestors daring to hunt and consume meat. Denial of this is anti-science, quackery, and cultish.
6
Well they didn't have to. Now we are becoming more aware than the ancestors. We don't need to continue walking in darkness, oblivious to the suffering wrought on other animals. At the very least, cut down on the consumption!
13
Some would argue that every ounce of our existence also replies on our ancestors' historical use of slave labour, or our past and present use of fossil fuels.
10
From my observations, there are basically two types of vegans/vegetarians. 1). Those for whom it’s all about themselves— their own “health” and physical well-being, and 2) those who cannot in good conscience be a party to subjecting other sentient beings to pain and suffering and often also have no desire to partake of animal flesh.
The new strategy being described in this article are intended for the first type - the ones who after eating a vegan dish exclaim, “It was really good! It tasted like meat!”
11
I don't think those two categories are mutually exclusive, or that promoting one cannot help the other.
6
@Mandeep It is possible to acknowledge that meat tastes good without wanting to consume it for ethical or other reasons. These plant-based options allow vegans and vegetarians the option to eat something that tastes delicious without the cruelty associated with the production of meat. I don't understand why that is so difficult for meat eaters to understand.
1
This article presents a false dichotomy. Being an animal activist is not pointless, futile or dumb compared to creating or encouraging the creation of alternative meat products. Both pursuits have merit, though I can see how being an animal activist might not seem as rewarding. After all, it is difficult to measure the converts you have made by waving your plastic chickens. It is much easier to measure the number of alternative-meat patties you have sold.
Nobody just wakes up and decides to become vegan or vegetarian for no good reason. People change because they have been persuaded to change by experiences, whether it be a book they read, a lecture they attended, a conversation with a friend, a slaughterhouse they visited, a plastic chicken, or all of the above.
While it may be true that the overall consumption of meat has increased over the last few decades, it is also true that the number of vegans and vegetarians as a percentage of the U.S. population has also increased.
Furthermore, the meat consumption statistics referenced in the article are not as cut and dried as the article suggests: Consumption of chicken has increased a lot. Consumption of most other types of meat, including beef and pork, has declined over the years.
As a long-time vegan, I hope we continue to see an increase in the use of alternative meats, but I don't expect this will happen without continued messaging efforts about the plight of animals and the many benefits of a plant-based diet.
21
Offensive lecturing cuts both ways. As a vegetarian in my 20s, "friends" and a family member targeted me for criticism simply because I did not eat meat. It was so offensive it made me more committed to a vegetarian diet. Since then I've transitioned to a vegan diet, but I keep my mouth shut about other people's food choices. Information about factory farming and the ecological consequences of industrial farming is easy to find. It's easy to share information sources and talk about it when asked. But I think change will come sooner if the news media continue to keep these issues in our sights, and we skip finger-pointing and sermonizing.
Plant-based diets do not work for everyone. Millions of Americans live in food deserts, unable to easily obtain fresh fruit and vegetables. If you're working at a stressful job with long hours, juggling school plus jobs, jobs plus kids, or caring for vulnerable family members, the last thing you're up for is time spent on extra shopping trips and another 4-6 hours each week standing on your feet chopping vegetables and figuring out what to cook besides bean burritos. It is a learned skill that takes time, opportunity, energy, and thought. Not everyone is in a position to do it.
Regarding the article, vegan/vegetarian diets do not equal healthy diets. Check the labels on those fake meat products before binging.
19
Beautifully said and so true, including the heads up about commercial vegan foods.
We too moved from vegetarian to vegan and, after years of failed proselytizing, learned not to advocate and not to judge. We have not abandoned the cause of animal welfare, and are heartened by its growing acceptance.
It’s puzzling why some still seem annoyed or offended by our choice...but no more puzzling than how those who have read the facts, watched the videos and have the means, continue to eat factory farmed flesh, eggs and milk.
1
@Parker
I have been a vegetarian most of my life and a strict vegan the last 15 years ( i am 45). I too have learned not to preach. People don't listen and become defensive. When I am asked " why " about my eating habits I answer " i will tell you if you really want to know", but if i sense any hostility or mocking, I cut the dialogue short.
3
there is absolutely no excuse for eating meat. it is bad for the animals, who live entire lives in horrific pain, bad for the planet (animal agriculture is the #1 cause of GHG) and worst for the humans putting dead animals in their bodies (cancer etc). as with most things in this society the ones who profit the most work with the government to keep americans fat tired and sick.
28
@cse Actually, no. The pseudo science telling us meat is unhealthy is no different than denying climate change.
5
@cse- There is also no excuse in this day and age for being a rabid fanatic, in that very way.
3
@Brian Can you provide a source for such a disparate analogy?
2
So farm to table and locally produced food are out and manufactured Soylent Green is in.
6
Just because smartphones are in doesn't mean face-to-face conversations are out. :)
3
I can’t number how many times some vegan or vegetarian has come up to me, while I was eating, and yelled that I was some sadistic, animal-hating, planet destroying dirtbag because I wasn’t partaking of “This healthy lifestyle!”
I don’t have time for such imbeciles and I’m not hesitant in telling them so.
7
@scott_thomas
Wow, I wonder where you eat. Do you slaughter your food at table? I eat out quite frequently and I've never witnessed anything remotely like what you've described.
20
@scott_thomas- you should hang out in different neighborhoods. I do.
5
@scott_thomas
I quit eating meat 45 years ago.
In all that time I've yet to hear of a scolding like the one you describe.
1
I applaud the ethics and alternative product approach to these efforts. Meat-like alternatives helped me transition to a vegetarian and ultimately vegan diet years ago, and I’m not sure I could have remained disciplined about my new attempts at better health and stronger compassion without them. As a result, I didn’t simply change my diet ... I changed how I view and interact with all living things. I have never been happier, healthier, or more at peace.
I am slightly conflicted, however, because I have successfully expanded my diet well beyond any further need for a meat-like experience ... and yet I still want to support the success and increasing availability of these options. So now, my humble ‘activism’ is limited to spreading the word about these products to all who express interest or will listen. At a restaurant, I will often order a fake meat item simply in an effort to vote with my dollars to keep it on the menu. Then, if a bite can be shared at the table with someone who is vegan-curious, all the better ... and this can lead to a positive broader conversation about living with greater health and compassion.
27
@joyfullly vegan Your personal story and your gentle style of supporting meat alternatives and introducing them to vegan-curious fellow diners are a model for advancing acceptance of cruelty-free and healthy eating.
2
How about less meat? I haven't yet found a vegie burger that I really like.
But throw together, in about equal portions, turkey burger, textured vegetable protein (tvp from soybeans) and a mush of vegetables like celery, onions, and radish (or whatever you like) and - I tell you - it's better than any regular meat burger.
I.e.: ground meat + tvp + vegetables
By the way, how do you get 5 helpings a day of fruits and vegetables together with nuts? Answer: blended green smoothies.
I.e.: Carton washed organic greens + bananas + grape juice + Almond milk.
Furthermore, good luck to you (and me) reducing sugar and carbs.
And I only eat happy turkeys who were given ecstasy before decapitation.
3
I met this guy once on the streets of San Francisco. He was a certifiable zealot incapable of logical or reasonable dialogue or fact based argument. Like so many ideologues, there was no room in his discourse for dissent, doubt or disagreement, and by no means, any alternative, reasonable or otherwise.
9
Let me see if I have this straight: as long as you label yourself an “activist,” it is perfectly acceptable to use violence and destroy the property of others in furtherance of your own beliefs. And if you are self-righteous enough, the NYT will write a cover story about you. Mr. Friedrich, would you accept anyone making your food choices for you? No? I thought not. You don’t care about animals, you care about aggrandizing yourself. And it’s working for you. Congratulations.
15
Which part of the article makes you think that? How do you think Mr Friedrich feels about his past tactics? :)
1
@Holland Fletcher
Mr. Friedrich has realized that people who like meat will need to find alternative good tasting foods in order to eat less meat. He is promoting the creation of meat alternatives and not telling you what to eat.
Organizations such as PETA have done a lot of good by bringing to attention horrible conditions on farms, where for instance chickens are kept in tight cages being unable to move about or by disclosing the inhumanity in abattoirs where animals are cut up before being totally dead.
6
Well, the anger and ignorance in the reader responses pretty much says it all. Sheesh children, just eat less meat. Mr Friedrich has grown into an adult who learned to compromise for the betterment of mankind. We should celebrate such people. As for the poor souls who are defiantly going to smashburger in response to this article,I get to drive down to in n out burger now and then. Just not as often as I used to.
16
@runaway- it is not at all assured or documented that Friedrich's efforts has "bettered" anyone let alone his fellow man, quite the opposite. Which is really where his efforts should have been going all this time.
@laguna greg How would you say his current work has had quite the opposite effect of bettering anyone?
“The work has turned Mr. Friedrich, 49, into a spokesman of sorts for people who came to realize that making others feel bad about eating meat does not make them consume less of it.”
These idiotic fanatics never made me “feel guilty” about eating meat. They just convinced me that they’re nuts.
14
@scottthomas
well, you deserve the health you get from non-vegetarian food!. It is not a matter of "feeling guilty" for eating animal meat but it is a matter of becoming intelligent about what you ingest into your body.
8
@Subhash C Reddy- Nobody, not even vegans, outlive the biblical "3-score and ten." You and your ilk will die of something eventually, and will have outlived none of us by any measurable margin, and a fair few of you in worse health than the rest of us.
If you don't believe me, just read any morbidity and mortality report issued by any county, state or national organization such as the WHO or CDC. They show, very clearly, that vegans don't live any longer appreciably than the rest of us.
4
@scottthomas
Go spend a day in a slaughter house!
7
This man is equivalent to rich people who all of sudden grow a conscience and lecture everyone on the evils of capitalism.
After they themselves become rich, of course.
9
I don't know if I find that a fair comparison - unlike rich people, he no longer practices or supports the activism tactics he used to. :)
1
Over 20 years ago I was invited to dinner at the home of a fellow teacher who was a vegetarian. She served frozen turkey burgers that were just awful. I have never had to force myself to eat such terrible food but this night was torture. This did it for me. I eat a variety of foods both meat and non meat but I will never give up eating meat. Once in a while I love a juicy cheeseburger or steak and will continue to eat these when I am in the mood. I also eat chicken which I also enjoy from time to time. Life is too short and I will eat what I want and when I want. That is for certain. Let those who want to forego meat do so but please leave those of us who want to eat meat now and then continue to do so. We will anyway.
6
@WPLMMT Well if she served turkey burgers, perhaps she's a pollotarian, but hardly a vegetarian of any sort. I'd exclude ovo-pollo-pesco-lacto-vegetarians on the grounds that they butcher Latin, among other things.
21
Turkey is considered by some to be a white meat. All I can say is that the turkey burger I was served was the worst meal I have ever eaten. I had to be polite and eat it but I would not have served this to a dog.
3
@WPLMMT
One meal convinced you that wasn't even vegetarian? I think maybe you encountered a bad cook. Some of the best meals I have ever eaten were vegetarian - they were made by wonderful and talented chefs. Don't paint all vegetarian food in a bad light because you had one bad experience.
1
As a 40-year plus vegetarian, I was always dismayed at the folly of fellow vegetarians chastising or eschewing (so to speak) meat eaters. I always preferred myself simply to demonstrate to people of good will by simple actions that there are more ethical, healthy, and environmental alternatives. Mr Friedrich does me one better— by patiently encouraging smart new technologies that provide people real choices without their having to "drink the Kool-Aid™", choices that respect people's family traditions, lifestyles and comforts.
This is the smart way to do it. Thank you Mr. Friedrich and allies.
34
@P. Siegel
Agree! Great article. People DO need to stop eating animals! Wrong, inhumane, selfish, cruel, unhealthy and unneccesary.
5
@P. Siegel
I agree with you. My caveat would be for people to become educated about nutrition (which should be a core education, as should civics) and learn and understand labels on food products. Processed products, such as meat alternatives, shouldn't be assumed to be healthy just because they don't contain meat. As a society I am hopeful that we're on a continuum moving away from meat. But I hope we're not substituting products even more harmful to ourselves on our journey. "Fake meat" is highly processed and IMO deserves careful scrutiny.
2
Mr. Friedrich sets a great example of how being flexible and practical instead of rigidly ideological can maximize the true impact you have toward your larger goal. For me, eating meat is my greatest personal hypocrisy, as I am fully aware of the cruelty and wastefulness in the business, yet I have found it hard to turn away to a fully vegetarian diet. I'm impressed by the Impossible burgers, and see them as an avenue in that direction. I hope those businesses grow and take away business from traditional meat suppliers.
12
@Koho It took me a long time to stop being complacent about eating meat. I recently celebrated four years of being vegan. I hope you get there, too!
14
On the footwear question of how to avoid animal products in your shoes or boots--you can get shoes and boots without leather but you have to ask about them. Some footwear looks vegan but may have leather in it.
The Mountain Equipment Co-op in Vancouver used to sell a hiking boot called "the vegan," but I think it's been discontinued.
I haven't mentioned leather clothing because it has to aesthetic or practical value. I glare at people in leather.
And I never see anyone in fur anymore.
7
I live in TX but am from WI and have been vegan for 4+ years after seeing the cruel, alarming conditions where livestock is "warehoused" in my home state. These animals never see the outside of the barn where they spend their miserable lives.
It's heartbreaking.
I often ask friends if they would eat vat-grown meat once it becomes available, if a) it's about the same price and b) it tastes about the same. Sadly, I don't often get an enthusiastic 'yeah!'
15
Maybe try call it something more appetizing than vat-grown meat? I’m not at all surprised by the responses to that offer, lol.
2
There is no denying the complicated economics of replacing meat with meat substitutes. For starters, the production of meat is heavily subsidized by the US government. It would be much more expensive if it were not for that. Meat production is also very resource intensive, requiring a lot of land to grow the animal feed, lots of water to water those crops and process the animals, lots of fertilizer and pesticides to grow the crops, lots of waste to be collected and processed, and lots of transportation. Meat substitutes simply require a lot less natural resources to produce. Switching to them would have vast environmental benefits. Much less land, water, and agricultural chemicals would be needed, and much less pollution, including greenhouse gases, would be produced. But switching to meat substitutes would result in the loss of a lot of jobs associated with the meat supply chain. It is analogous to the decline of the coal industry. Overall, it is for the better, but creates a lot of economic and social disruption.
16
I confess. I'm a failed vegan. I tried it, absolutely strictly, for 8 months. My heart was in it, since I hate the idea of killing animals and I know veganism is so much better for the environment. But in the end my strong craving for meat, poultry, and fish won out. They told me I would lose that craving after just a few weeks. Hah! Months into it, when I smelled the steaks and ribs my neighbor was barbecuing on his deck, my mouth watered uncontrollably. Eventually I gave in to the craving, feeling like a spineless failure.
That's why I'm excited about the kinds of enterprises Friedrich is promoting. A few weeks ago I had a "Beyond Burger" at a fast-food restaurant, and it was amazing! Unlike the other veggie burgers I had tried, this had all the taste--and more importantly the texture and "mouth feel"--of grilled ground beef, while being 100 percent plant-based. I'd gladly give up real ground beef if Beyond Beef were widely available and reasonably priced.
I also recently dined at a vegan Vietnamese restaurant and had "shrimp" that looked and tasted remarkably close to the real thing.
Over and above food items, I'd like to think we'll eventually have convincing plant-based leather for shoes, jackets, car seats, etc.
I for one would feel so much less compromised if I didn't have to choose between living morally and satisfying my innate cravings.
12
@Cufflink- did it every occur to you that those cravings were perfectly natural, and indicated that your body was telling you that you needed something in the those foods, for your health?
It's one of the many reasons we have both taste buds, and olfactory palate, and cravings. But for Heaven's sake, let go for the guilt for anything that natural.
3
@laguna greg People can have cravings for French fries, Coca Cola, etc., too.
1
I am a 62 yr old vegetarian of 35 yrs. I never really did enjoy eating meat. I don't want to eat substitutes that look and/or taste like meat, for example tofurky, tofu baloney etc. I like to see that I am eating tofu, beans or other whole substitutes. The "Beyond Burger" has become such a rage that a few months ago I bought 2 patties to cook into burgers. I was absolutely repulsed by the bloody look and meaty taste of the burgers and will never touch another one again. However, I think they are a great option for carnivores who enjoy eating meat and for that I am grateful. Both meat and non-meat burgers are somewhat unhealthy so they should not be a regular food item for anyone, but an occasional treat. I think it is great that a plant-based burger has now become an option that appeals to carnivores.
33
It's terrifying that moral arguments carry so little weight with so many people, who will only do the right thing once there's something in it for them. Most people care more about their own convenience and continuing their ingrained habits than about the unnecessary suffering of millions. Even slavery was not abolished for truly ethical reasons; it was allowed to persist until the Industrial Revolution finally made it economically obsolete. And we stopped killling Native Americans only when there was no more land left to steal.
44
@Samuel Russell- what is truly terrifying are arbitrary religious strictures and even repressed childhood traumas masquerading as some kind of universal "morality". Further, that some people insist these should be used to enforce a public policy that rather flies in the face of human biology.
5
Over 70% of agriculture land to livestock feeds. There's veganism, then there's eating less meat. Western cuisines take shortcuts with meat for taste, perhaps because not many interesting vegetables can be grown in colder climate. Asian cuisines often use little meat as condiments or no meat. There are wide variety of low meat or vegetarian foods that are tasty, healthy and friendly for the environment. I often marvel at the delicious foods I encounter when I visit my mom's temple for lunch. For the planet to reverse climate change and for our health, we could all cut down on our meat consumption.
20
I recently gained some weight after surgery. After starting Weight Watchers I saw how a plant based diet was the easiest way to stay within the allowed WW guidelines. I went totally vegetarian and love it. Better for the environment, better for the GI system, cholesterol down, blood pressure down, less expensive food, weight down 30 pounds etc. I can and will do this the rest of my life. BTW plant based diets contribute to longevity.
43
The inherent unsustainability of a vegan diet is only exceeded by that of the current meat system. Every soybean field lies on the graveyard of the ecology that created the soil the soy field is consuming. That soil is eroding away across the globe.
I eat beef that comes from cows that grew up on a prairie ecology, and that prairie creates habitat for thousands of organisms, builds soil, sequesters carbon, and improves water resources. Meanwhile the Amazon is being cut down for more soybeans.
The answer? Take the 40% of corn and 70% of soybeans that goes to animal feed and convert it back to prairie, raising millions of cattle and bison. That's a food system that won't deplete aquifers, erode soil, drive further extinction, or create dead zones in our waterways.
25
@Neal
There is not enough land for your idea to work unless you want about 3oz. of beef per week.
6
@Scott B
The great plains once held around 60 million bison, and that was without human management. Leader follower systems can increase that sustainbly. In the meantime, what are you and I going to do when the Ogalallah Aquifer runs out in thirty years and Iowa's soils are completely depleted? Agricultures that mimic ecology are the only ones that can sustain people because they don't mine soil or deplete water resources.
4
Some of the meat alternatives are not healthy in other ways, e.g., have very high salt content. If the makers want people to buy them, they're going to have to produce healthier products.
5
@Chelmian You make an excellent point. Thank you.
Better alternative? Frankenfood. Leave me to eat what I choose.
5
@Peter I'm not a vegan by any means, but why do we always have to respond combatively to herbivore folk as if you are being unduly attacked with a "leave me alone". It's like by their sheer existence you become threatened. Wouldn't you at least like to hear about what's being developed, and then make the choice? Their effort to earn a place on your palette is going to at the very least create economic activity, innovation and development.
49
Beyond Meat burgers are absolutely delicious, I must say.
Amazing.
22
@Will. I couldn't agree more. We grill up Beyond burgers regularly.
6
AND expensive !
1
@Lim
Yes, so we add a large helping of chickpeas tossed with diced tomatoes, onions, and some finely chopped parsley to everyone's half-burger allotment.
We only use the Beyond Meat burgers because they are so easy. And delicious. But nothing on earth beats well-cooked savory bean dishes for some of us, whether vegetarian or not. They just take better planning than we can muster sometimes.
5
Shaming people for eating a diet out teeth indicate we have evolved to ingest does not work. If activists could convince every person in United States to enjoy one meatless meal per week, the effect could be monumental. The New York City public school system is leading the way in this regard by rolling out "Meatless Mondays" for the coming fall. Vegetarian meals will be provided for breakfast and lunch to 1.1 million school children. Showing children that vegetarian options are healthy and delicious will no doubt bring about changes in many households.
12
@Ellie S. Curious, how have you been using your coccyx lately? Or any of your other vestigial traits?
12
@Ellie S.
I'm a little confused by your comment. Humans actually don't have the teeth of a carnivore -- no fangs, just a few puny canines. Nor do we have claws, also common to carnivores. And we have a long, convoluted digestive track similar to vegetarian animals, not the short smooth digestive track common to carnivorous animals.
But I do agree with what you say about educating people on the sheer deliciousness of vegetarian meals! Once they see that the alternatives to a meat-centered meal can be delicious as well as good for them and the planet, they will be more likely to choose veg more and meat less, maybe one day giving meat up altogether.
16
@Steve
Funny, these "we've evolved to eat meat" people seem to believe that evolution has stopped at their backyard barbecue.
9
It is nice to see that he finally grew up and learned that berating people wasn't the way to get them to listen.
13
We are built to eat meat. Look at your teeth Mr. Friedrich.
Can we treat cows, pigs and chickens better? Sure.
But otherwise, you're just trying to get humans to do something that is unnatural.
8
@Name (required) Hello... our mouth is made up of mostly flat molars to grind plant material. Are you really comparing human canines (and the rest of our rather dull teeth) to a lion's canines and every other razor sharp tooth in their mouth? We are not "built to eat meat". Our intestines are very long to break down plant material, just like other plant eaters. But most importantly, we are smarter...let's not trash our planet and go with the meat alternatives.
44
@JK- We actually have both. The bicuspids and incisors in the front are perfectly adapted to rip and tear flesh. That's why we have them. If you want to see nothing but flat molars in a mouth, look at an elephant. Our teeth aren't like that.
Our digestive tract is actually short enough to easily digest flesh foods, and has the right chemistry for it. Food passes from end to end in 24-36 hours, just like other carnivores. A cow on the other hand, who survives only on plant matter, has 3 stomachs, and takes 3 days to pass out digested matter.
We are nothing like that.
6
@Name (required) Doe it matter what kind of teeth you have? You have the ability to not kill animals.
Millions of people have made the decision to not eat meat because they value animal life a lot more than what tastes good to them.
16
Where I grew up, I saw my grand father (and others, too), lead an innocent creature (sheep or goat, some babies, actually) to the slaughter. He would make the animal kneel in front of him. He would pull up its head and slide the knife across it's throat. Blood would gush out of it and the animal would twitch before it stopped.
Then, he would string up its dead body upside down to let the blood drain off. At the same time, he would slide the knife under it's skin and slowly take off the whole skin. The next thing was cutting a long line down it's abdomen and taking out its entrails. The smell was horrible.
Now, I am a vegetarian.
People go to the supermarket and pick up a pink piece of meet in a plastic wrapper. They have no idea what it took to get there, nor do they care. I think that is so unethical, because the blood of millions of innocents is spilled every day to satisfy our gut.
63
@Pat- the problem is that you can't build a convincing ethical argument when you conflate morality with a visceral reaction to a seeming childhood trauma. More clarity than that is needed.
8
@Pat
" They have no idea what it took to get there, nor do they care."
You are right about one thing, no I don't care. Humans evolved to eat meat as part of our diet.
3
@James
They also evolved to rape, murder and exploit
7
How can anyone so concerned with ethical behaviour be a member of the Catholic Church??
I haven't eaten any meat since 1990, and I ate very little of it before then, but I would never, ever ally myself with so corrupt an organization as the RC Church.
To each his / her own brand of ethics.
10
This is fine and dandy as long as they are not, in any way, shape or form, allowed to refer to it as meat. And by the way, growing cells in a lab, aren't these the same people that say GMOs will kill you?
4
@TED338
No, they're largely not the same people who say that, Ted. I for one love my seedless watermelon and dozens of other GMOs. Flimsy straw man, but at least you didn't use the "look at our teeth" argument, so kudos there.
6
@TED338 Can we still call the kernel of a nut "meat?" Language has a life of its own, and the majority will always win. Also these are not "the same people" who say GMOs will kill anyone. They believe in science.
2
@DennisMcG Your seedless watermelons are NOT GMO! They are created by traditional breeding. Very, very few fruits and veg that are eaten in whole form (bought at the supermarket) are GMO. There are 11 crops in total that are GMO: Papaya, potatoes, squash, sweet corn and apples may be available in your store’s produce aisle. The other crops are: alfalfa, canola, corn (field) cotton, soybeans and sugar beets.
2
not only do i eat meat and fish, i also go fishing and hunting and eat what i kill.
kinda like gardening ... except with fishing equipment or guns
8
You just got to have a gimmick. you can lead the meat-eater to veggies, but you can't make hime eat!
1
That's right--we evolved to eat meat. "You can't fool mother nature!"
I eat meat. I won't stop. Give me an alternative that tastes good, and I'm all in.
For example, I love Morning Star breakfast "soysages."
Somebody make it work. Become a Billionaire doing it, I don't care.
6
@Dan try the Impossible Burger and the Beyond Burger. They are incredible.
1
@Diana: Try Morningstar Farms Prime Grillers. If I decided to ever eat meat again (don’t hold your breath!), I would still eat Prime Grillers. Best burger around, and that’s the truff!
2
I'd like to get in this guy's face with a cheeseburger stuffed in my mouth. A little too self-righteous for my taste.
Is there a better way to manage animal agriculture? No doubt. Would we be better off eating less animal protein? Probably. But spare me the sanctimony. Humans are omnivores. Mr. Friedrich is not going to change that.
7
The roots of animal farming and climate change lies in the belief (christian) that all creatures and nature is created to serve human. Is there a way this message can be corrected ?
May be convince Pope and spread the message of Ahimsa?
1
@Prads- First, that argument is not limited to Western Xianity. Second don't bother. Every religion, especially Buddhism and its many sects, has its own ethical paradoxes and hypocrisies, even if the adherents are not consciously aware of them.
2
@Prads
Humans evolved to eat meat long before there was any religion.
4
@laguna greg
I appreciate the view point.
Well used to at some point in our evolution to being more responsible, sensitive and humane society, used to routinely lynch, cannibalism, own slaves, witch burning, no rughts for women, no charity and all that. I believe we live in a far better society now thanks to the evolving civility. We owe our future generation a better, more sensible, non violent society. Being kind to all animals is one necessary step towards that goal. It helps the earth in that process so be it.
4
How about he minds his own business for starters.
Off to Smashburger for lunch!
7
@skater242
Yum, I'll join you.
@skater242 Personally "loved" the "holier than thou art" attitude of Fredrich. It makes sense that he has allied himself with the RC church. Birds of a feather flock together, and so do hypocrites. Can we make it six for lunch?
Now there is some evidence that plants have sensations/feelings too - will Freidrich chose to starve to death?.
2
@Pat Nixon Good heavens, yes. We've known since the '70's that plants demonstrate distress when wounded or attacked by insects. Just because vegetarian/vegans are too chemically insensitive to detect the pheromone screams doesn't make them somehow more morally superior or highly evolved. Live eats life. Just treat the live you eat with respect. Better yet, take the responsibility of getting your own.
And wasn't there just recently an article that showed lab grown meat was actually worse for the environment? I swear I saw one.
2
Americans consume WAY too much meat. I mean everything from bacon and eggs at breakfast to Cold Cuts at Lunch to Pot Roast at Dinner,all for 7 Days a Week. Perhaps a Middle Eastern or Oriental Diet might be in order.
23
@DAWG
Maybe not until the left implements socialism until then I will have a double bacon cheeseburger.
1
It amused me no end when Michael Pollan declared "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.". He may as well have said "Let them eat cake.".
The cost of being "politically correct" in regards to food is not one many people can afford.
I grew up in Berkeley, not far from Pollan lives in his $1million++ house in the Berkeley hills. I suppose it's all well and good for him to make that declaration from his lofty perch.
The same goes for anyone else who thinks that they know better: I'd like to point out that this whole debate is one which is confined to the privileged few, since the cost of these veg alternative "meats" is double the cost of real meat, at least in my - and Michael Pollan's btw - local stores and restaurants.
The Impossible Burger is priced at $16-18 in my local casual dining and take-out restaurants, and the Beyond Meat burger is priced at $8 for a half pound in my local supermarket - as opposed to $4-6 lb for ground beef.
I don't know about you, but I certainly ain't one of those self-righteous people parking my Tesla in front of Whole Foods (a.k.a. "Whole Paycheck") - the same self-righteous people who think that they should tell everyone else how and what to eat.
13
@Zippy T Pinhead The cost of being a vegan is minuscule in comparison to a diet full of meat! Unless your every meal is from the dollar menu at a fast food place. Rice and beans are cheap. Vegetables and fruits and nuts and rolled oats are cheaper than meat. The thing is you have to commit to cooking your food, which a lot of people don't do anymore. Cooking healthy plant based food is not being snobbish or self-righteous. Wow. I rarely eat processed veggie burgers or veggie sausages...I use them occasionally to perk up a soup or pasta dish. Being vegan doesn't mean all meals full of expensive processed vegan "food". People are so threatened with any discussion that our food system is seriously broken and the people of earth need to eat a lot more plants.
7
@Zippy T Pinhead The cost of meat is cheaper because our government subsidizes the meat industry. We should get rid of the subsidies on meat and then compare how much a meat burger really costs.
You do make a great point though - we do have food disparity in this country.
2
It seems the better solution is to change our relationship with food.
Humans are heterotrophs - we must kill to live. There is no escaping this truth. The question is how we go about it, not whether or not we do it. How we honor the relationship between ourselves and the non-human persons we kill to sustain our beings? This question extends beyond just animals. It applies equally to plants, fungi, and the land itself. What relationship do we want to cultivate with these persons, knowing that some of them must die and be sacrificed so that we may live?
Animistic cultures who understood non-humans as persons - as agents worthy of ethical consideration - did not practice vegetarianism or veganism. They practiced reciprocity. If something was taken, something was given in exchange. We do not need to become vegetarians or vegans. We need to be more mindful and appreciative of the needed sacrifices that sustain our bodies and civilizations then ask "what am I giving back?"
7
@E.J. Actually, we clearly don't need to "kill to live." It's a choice.
19
@AllAtOnce- Vegans like to say that all the time, but it just shows that :
1- They have no idea what they are talking about, and
2- They are either entirely ignorant of the situation they are in, or they are willing to live with a fundamental hypocrisy that makes them look foolish and untrustworthy.
2
@E.J. I agree. I hate labels (begans, vegetarians, meat-eaters). No matter what we do, we harm. Our goal should be to minimize the harm we do.
I'm surprised that another incentive to eat less meat isn't included here: The impact of the meat industry on climate change. People who love eating meat, and refuse to compromise their right to eat it, might be more open to good meat substitutes if they care about the global calamity we're clearly headed toward.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/21/lifestyle-change-eat-less-meat-climate-change
And terminology has always been part of it. We say pork and beef instead of pig and cow. And "meat" instead of flesh. It's flesh. (I know this point will make diehard meat eaters laugh, so no one need respond here to remind me.)
But, in addition to the environment, maybe this thought might help: Follow the money. Which usually means not small farmers, but tight corporate control over the culture. (Watch "Eating Animals" and you'll see how these giants won't let cameras into their facilities - and what they've done to "small farmers.")
Like other issues, it's a matter of education, openness to change, awareness of the bigger picture, and - thank you, Mr. Friedrich: Thinking outside the box.
46
My sister is a vegan. Shortly after she adopted her new eating regime, she chastised me on a daily basis about my consumption of animal-based food.
Her condemnation didn't stop me from eating eggs, beef, chicken, and milk-based food. Eventually, she gave up trying to convince me.
However, my digestive system did convince me. Last year, milk-based food, and some types of meat stop agreeing with me. Milk was starting make me violently ill. After a bunch of tests, my doctor told me completely cut milk out of diet. I did and immediately started to feel better.
Little by little, I started trying vegan food alternatives. The ones that taste good, I happily consume. The ones that taste terrible go straight into the garbage can.
I still have the occasional hamburger or breast of chicken (they don't bother me), but neither is a daily part of my life.
I physically feel better eating less animal-based food. I thought I'd miss cheese, milk, but I've found that I don't.
That's a long way of saying that trying to guilt me into considering giving up some animal-based food didn't work. It was getting sick that convinced me.
9
@Vernie19 Rather than trying a bunch of vegan food alternatives, try cooking real food....like vegetable soup with beans, pasta with a bunch of veggies and tomato sauce, oatmeal and berries, PB&J banana sandwiches (my fave!)...I could go on and on. Too, get some spices to use in your cooking it will blow your mind. I can't stomach a lot of the vegan processed meat alternatives...and why even bother? Real plant food tastes wonderful! :-)
4
It’s economics. Dead animals are too cheap, alternatives pricey. Basic marketing, when something gets too pricey people look for alternatives. Growing up on an ethnic family, hunks of animal flesh were not daily meals, meat was stretched, and we had meatless days. This is what we could afford, and now find is healthier all around. Also use semantics to your advantage, like we know the republicans did, and call it dead flesh, animal remains, etc. See how popular it is then.
3
The question which this article leaves unadressed is HOW this meat subsitute is produced. I suppose Mr Popper decided we should do our own research about the issue at the heart of this profile. It still looks like a huge industrial process to me, and I doubt that something so effete as producing meat out of plants will ever catch on seriously - any more than TVP, the 70s soy-protein meat subsitute, did.
Then again I don’t expect veganism to ever catch on in a big way. There has never been an entirely vegan human society, anywhere. The more likely way to change our destructive and cruel meat-eating habits is to regulate the hell out of the meat industry, with a view to making life much better for the animals and the product better for us - to savour more, if less frequently.
Eggs and dairy are a different story, which also remains unaddressed here...
4
Kids or cattle? We're on our way to a minimum of 11 billion humans on this planet. If we are to feed that many people, we cannot afford to shove vegetable protein into animals (which inefficiently convert it to meat) and then slaughter those animals for food.
Lots of pro-meat comments here, every one of which is myopic, head-in-the-sand and self-centered. There's no point in listing the endless problems with eating meat to those who don't really care about the damage it does to the planet their kids will live on, the damage too much animal protein does to their health or the suffering of the animals tortured in our low-cost, high-production CAFO Big Meat industry.
However, if you're determined to eat meat, at least switch to fish or poultry - even pork is a better choice than beef. Per pound of protein produced, cattle require 370% more land, nearly 600% more feed and more than 1100% more water than poultry. The water consumed by beef is of particularly significance in the dry-climate, drought-ridden American West where nearly half of US cattle are raised. In addition, cattle produce more than 500% more greenhouse gas emissions than poultry. Beef production consumes far more fossil fuels than do other meat animals.
Get a clue, peeps.
45
i think there will never be more than the current 5% of the population that identifies as vegetarian because--evolution. we evolved (because of?) with an omnivore diet. there is no objective moral basis for meat=bad, vegetable=good. personally, i eat more veggies than meat because it's healthier for me; not because it makes me feel better about the planet. but not giving up the occasional new york strip. no way.
5
@Scott Stueckle
Can we please dispense with the notion that evolution ordained us to eat meat? For the vast majority of human history, we lived as hunter-gatherers. That is what we are programmed by evolution to be, not city dwellers that get their food from the supermarket. Evolution programmed us to gobble as much high fat, high sugar food as fast as we can as often as it is available. Should we continue to do that because that is how evolution programmed us?
The reasons for eating less meat are environmental and ethical. We can function just fine on the plethora of available non-meat foods such as nuts, seeds, and beans, and whatever products can be made from those, and far outlive our hunter gatherer ancestors. You won't die if you don't eat the way evolution programmed you to, and unless you are a hunter-gatherer, you are not. In fact, you will likely be healthier and live longer if you eat a balanced plant-rich diet. If you don't believe me, ask Dave Scott, 6-time winner of the Ironman Triathlon. He is a vegan.
6
@MRod- "Can we please dispense with the notion that evolution ordained us to eat meat? "
No.
Ignore biology if you must, but the rest of us will know exactly what to do. Which is ignore that argument.
1
@MRod
By all means deny evolution.
1
I definitely agree with others here that Mr. Friedrich made a good choice. I've always thought PETA's stunts are for the most part heavy-handed, juvenile, and just plain wrong-headed. But I'm also a carnivore who enjoys tasty vegan food, and there have been more and more options available. With the Impossible Burgers, Field Roasts, and myriad soy products in stores, I've been able to choose veg over meat more often lately. Presenting delicious alternatives is, to me, a much better strategy than telling meat-eaters that they are bad people.
16
Nutrition is a complex subject that is often muddied by activists with a narrow focus, and by marketing strategies. There is no substitute for learning more about healthy nutrition. There is no single approach to nutrition that is appropriate for every one, at every age, regardless of health status. Until more nutritional information becomes generally available as a basis for individual choices, the futile food fights playing out in the media will contribute little to public heath.
5
I appreciate this approach. When I was younger, I was involved in different kinds of anarchist organizations (ha! seems like an oxymoron, but actually those groups can be pretty organized). I agreed with their vision of what they thought a better world might look like, and they were generally very kind people, but over time I came to very much disagree with their approach and outlook on other people, and found the groups to be exclusive, in some ways superficial (very clothing-coded, music-coded, etc.), but more than anything: ineffective. They made it seem like their goals were only achievable if you were willing to totally abandon society in certain ways that were very off-putting and even frightening to most people, and that's just not going to be a winning formula. At that same time, I was a vegetarian. But, once I started traveling to other countries more, I realized that not accepting food from hosts was rude. I began to re-think my stance, and now I agree with this approach. I think choices are complex, and it's better to be effective than moralizing and judgmental.
4
Unfortunately it takes real discipline to change your diet, and discipline is not a strong point for humans.
Overcoming both biological imperatives (eating all the high fat and high protein foods you can get your hands on), and tribal imperatives (what your family/culture ate and considered desirable while you were growing up) is not easy. I wish Mr. Friedrich and his group success.
16
I love so many of these products--making some for dinner tonight! They are coming closer to tasting like the "real thing" and yet is so much healthier.
A big factor which people will eventually realize more is that with climate change the price of meat will continue to rise. That is, it takes a lot more grain to make a pound of beef (protein) than it would to generate the same pound of vegetable protein. And that means much greater energy consumption, methane production, etc. all for that one pound of beef. Not to mention the antibiotic use.
So it is inevitable that vegetarianism and veganism has to increase. It is not a big leap to forecast that this change, possibly within our lifetime. Having replacements for actual meat will be necessary to help people transition to that change in diet.
Kudos to Bruce Friedrich and all of his coworkers.
12
@Itsnotrocketscience- Well I LOVE eating meat!!
I live on an acre in the PNW. I have a garden in the summer, and we grow most everything we eat or put it up. We keep about 10 chickens and eat or sell the eggs.
In the Fall, we "buy" a calf with our friends from a nearby rancher. It grows up in that field not far from my house. We all visit it from time to time to see how it's doing. When it reaches maturity, we get a local butcher to kill and slaughter it. My partner and I get about 2/3 of the cow, and it goes in our freezer. All that lasts us almost a whole year. You have never eaten so well in your life, and probably never will.
There's no need or reason to change human nature, because there's nothing wrong with it. But there might be something wrong with the way one lives, or how (read: industrial farming), or how one thinks about it. Living with the kind of personal self-condemnation that veganism requires is absurd.
13
@laguna greg
Why would you hire a butcher to kill and process the meat? I dare you do this your self and see how it affects you. To take a life away from an animal is cruel. Avoiding this cruelty is the next step in becoming a more civilized and kind society.
16
@Prads- Oh, the way this animal dies, it is not cruel say what you will. I don't accept that at all.
I'm not squeamish about this process and often stand right next to the butcher while he does it, and then tell him how we all want the meat cut up standing right next to the band saw while it's going on. All of us do. In no way is that cruel or unethical, except that you seem to not like it personally.
Do you know how to kill and slaughter a large animal? Do you have all the equipment and facilities necessary to do so safely and hygienically, according to the law? You'd get professional help too. Anybody would.
3
@Prads- I have stood right next to the butcher as he kills the cow with a slug gun. We all have. It has not changed my impressions or my opinion about killing animals to eat them. Rather it has given me a much greater respect for the practice.
I do not have on my property the equipment or facilities to butcher a large animal humanely, efficiently or hygienically as required by law. Chickens yes, but not a cow. Nobody does, which is why we hire a butcher to help us.
I do not accept that killing animals in this way is cruel. What happens on factory farms, on the other hand, IS indeed abuse and cruelty, and is also very dangerous for us and the animals in the long term.
What happens at my house is the exact opposite of that.
4
Good work you are doing. On a personal level I am alergic to soy beans, lentils and chick peas and anything made from these beans which includes meatless meat, tofu, miso, soy sauce, etc. These cause intense hives, running nose, coughing. I know there are many like me. I do eat meat a couple of times a week but only from my local farmers. That's the best I can do.
10
If you were a struggling model trying to make a living and Mr Friedrich splattered fake blood over you during the course of your employment, he might not seem to be as much of an admirable character as enthusiastic observers, standing at a safe distance, would like to to believe. And you might be additionally annoyed as he abandoned those stunts for new ones which take no more account of the bystanders who are his unwilling subjects.
Like other true believers, he is protected from self-reflection by the fervency of his beliefs, but that should not provide an alibi for the passive supporters who make his behavior possible.
10
Ya, just another con man searching for a good con.
5
@ERP The fact that the models are struggling must surely be the people who protest the sickeningly inhumane treatment of animals captured and bred for fur and not the fault of an industry which promotes unattainable standards for women while paying its models a pittance.
3
@TR- Your deflection did not work. Attempting to victimize the victims never does, to any sensible and right-thinking bystanders.
1
Thanks for this article. I, for one, have always chosen those who elect in to Catholicism as my moral compass.
2
Thank you Mr Friedrich- the world is finally catching up to you. Bring on the veggie burgers!
12
This guy is on the right track.
I've been a vegetarian since high school, now I eat 99% vegan. (The unavoidable, I don't get crazy about.)
I have noticed that "Vegan" is a style of food, like, non-vegan people go out for vegan. This is real change.
And now, NYC public schools will have Meatless Mondays.
38
Their self-rightous ignorance is mis-directed. The issue isn't the husbandry of animals. The issue is the inhumane treatment of animals.
Perhaps these characters are unaware that the animals whose milk we drink, hides we wear, and meat we eat, wouldn't exist without our use of them. If they are treated humanely from birth to death, we have given them life... a good life. If these creatures cared to visit farms that do raise animals with kindness, they'd observe that the life we give them is a good life.
Instead, they should direct their energies against the Tysons and other creators of the factory farming system.
Moreover, these self-rightous vegan types are also quite ignorant about plant life. Plants (trees especially) have far more in common with organisms with central nervous systems than most people (especially scientifically ignorant people) realize. When you cut down a tree or pull a vegetable plant out by its roots, do not assume this is a benign act. In order to survive, every organism must have some mechanism by which it recognises an attack upon itself. Pain works really well for this purpose, and is highly likely to be highly conserved by evolution from single-celled organisms to vegans. (Not sure there was actually a lot of evolution there, but whatever!)
I urge all vegans who are intelligent enough to do so to seriously study the behavior of different forms of vegetation. They'll acquire new respect for vegetables, and perhaps stop eating them.
9
@red sox 9 Hmmm I think most people agree there is a difference between an animal and a plant (and yes I read The Secret Life of Trees and yes, Respect). I am a lifelong vegetarian who sees that there shades of gray in eating animals. Choosing meat produced on a farm where the animal was humanely raised and slaughtered is indeed better than choosing Tyson and Perdue. But there aren't enough humane farms - and even fewer humane slaughterhouses - to supply meat for the masses. This inevitably means everyone will at least need to eat less meat if we are to accomplish the goal of less animal suffering, not to mention our environmental goals. So we will need alternatives and lots of them. This is an effort to be applauded. I find it hard to criticize the choice not to eat meat on any real grounds (unless you are the cook and I show up at your dinner party unannounced). You sound a little silly with your "vegetables feel pain" stance.
29
@red sox 9
So you think plants without nervous systems feel pain? Please elaborate.
I would add that perhaps raising an animal for the sole purpose of slaughtering and eating it is not a dignified life for said animal, and sounds more like a self-serving rationalization by a human.
12
@Gustav- that's been documented for a long time. Read Tompkins, "The Secret Life of Plants", https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Life-Plants-Fascinating-Emotional/dp/0060915870/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+secret+life+of+plants&qid=1552420568&s=gateway&sr=8-1
****
People who insist that plants don't feel pain or anxiety are either ignorant or hypocrites.
1
When asked how I'd like my steak I answer 'with long eyelashes'.
Great article. The more alternative choices to red meat, the better.
8
I understand why many vegans say what they do, they are passionate and feel that eating meat is wrong, but I think like anti abortion activists they see things in black and white. There are reasons why people should be eating a more vegetarian based diet even when eating meat, people are eating huge portions (especially with the Keto craze), when meat is supposed to be a 4oz portion, not to mention that the meat people are chowing down on is of poor quality. If vegans are worried about animals being used for food, reducing that amount will reduce suffering, the way that reducing abortions is a good both sides can agree on. I eat a primarily vegan diet for health reasons, I only eat meat or dairy products maybe a meal or two a month. Also, if people ate less meat by eating reduced portion sizes, they might buy things like grass fed beef, that though more expensive, is a lot more healthy.
And to be honest, the so called "fake meat" raises red flags with me, I haven't read the ingredients on the burger substitute they are marketing, but I would bet like the tofu based meats they offer, it is full of chemicals and all kinds of unhealthy fats and oils. To be honest, they would be better with a grass fed beef burger or range fed bison then those alternatives, if they do what I think they are doing, loading them with salt and fats and oils to make them 'taste better'.
23
@music observer As a vegan, I, for one, totally appreciate your efforts to eat mostly vegan. I agree that the goal is an overall drop in the amount of animals tortured and killed to please people's palates. You don't have to be a pure vegan to help the planet move in that direction. If everyone reduced their consumption of animals, the world would be better off. Personally, I think the goal should be no animal consumption but I also favor moves in the right direction. I only occasionally eat the fake meats--you are correct, they are overly processed.
12
Don't worry in 40-90 years the price of meat and dairy will force most Americans and the world to adopt a diet with far less meat and dairy products. O suspect meat once or twice a week will be the new norm in a warmer world of 10-12 billions humans. I hope the meat substitute people continue to develop better lower impact vegan alternatives.
10
Diet choice is such a hot button issue because it's so linked to culture, history and the sensual experience of taste.
Every time one bites into a burger the brain is responding with 'taste good' serotonin, which is usually much stronger than the idea that you are consuming a sentient being that has suffered simply for that sensual moment.
But given that, it's important to reach people where they are and offer them various pathways to change without beating then over the head with arguments.
Veganism can start with simply reducing meat intake. It can also be linked to medical issues. Meat eaters have much higher rates of some cancers and our epidemic of diabetes is mostly diet driven.
Some may be drawn by science which has now verified the very rich emotional life of animals. We really are closer to these beings than we once thought.
Then there's the environment and the simple fact that the earth cannot sustain 7 billion meat eaters. If we want to survive as a species many of the creatures we now eat will have to be left to their natural life cycle.
As people experiment with eating less meat, more will take the next step of eating no meat.
34
@Drspock Traditional societies - before the industrial age invented meat-processing plants and feedlots - knew very well that their animals had characters and an emotional life, just like every dog owner knows. That did not stop people from killing the pig in winter because having that exxtra protein/fat/micronutrients provided by the meat was a matter of survival. And animals themselves grew off what was useless - lambs in fallow fields, scrap-eating chickens and pigs etc. The trouble isn't eating meat, it's industrial production of meat.
13
@Drspock - "Diet choice is such a hot button issue because it's so linked to culture, history and the sensual experience of taste."
It's also linked to human nutrition and digestion.
2
Plants don’t want to be eaten either. There is plenty evidence of this and how plants directly interact with their environment. There was a time where we viewed animals as not being sentient. It has been found that bees are capable of understanding math. As technology advances we will find out more and more about all life forms. The unfortunate reality of existence is that life takes life. That is not to say that we should not respect and give reverence to what is taken from the earth ( Flora & Fauna) so that we can be nourished. Labels such “cruelty free” are a farce especially with so much agriculture being industrial in nature. Unless you are harvesting everything without machinery there is going to be unintentional loss of animal life. Then you are still picking and choosing what organisms deserve to be ‘saved’.
9
@bklynbyrd
That is an argument that meat eaters love to give, but there is a difference between how plants react to their environment and being sentient, a big difference. For all the 'research' that plants are affected by music (that has been blown out of the water FYI by real experiments), for all the people claiming plants 'love' the sun, the science isn't there, where it is with animals. The arrogance of 'only humans are self aware", promoted by especially Christian and Jewish and Muslim teaching, has been totally found to be bogus, intelligence and emotional depth has been found across much of the animal world, especially among mammals and birds, there has been no such evidence around plants, their interaction with their environment at best is primitive.
51
@music observer- No, that's been documented for a long time, all very scientifically. Read Tompkins, "The Secret Life of Plants",
https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Life-Plants-Fascinating-Emotional/dp/0060915870/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+secret+life+of+plants&qid=1552420568&s=gateway&sr=8-1
***
Anybody who insists that plants don't feel fear, pain or anxiety is either ignorant or a hypocrite.
1
@music observer- Tell yourself that if you must. You live with your hypocrisies, and I'll live with mine.
1
I would surely welcome a broader variety of meat or non-meat alternatives. However, I'm not sure developing meat alternatives in a lab is moving us in the right direction. I remember reading about how McDonald's manufactured the smell of their french fries in a plant on the Jersey turnpike once they discontinued beef lard frying. Lab burgers don't really seem like a step forward.
Think about it: Friedrich is essentially advocating the opposite of farm-to-table agriculture. Cattle aren't the problem, right? They are biologically engineered to live and die for human prosperity and well being. The problem is the scale and processes by which we produce and consume cattle are both destructive and unhealthy.
I'm of a mind to disagree with Friedrich's central goals. We shouldn't manufacture beef alternatives to compete with cost and flavor. Beef should be expensive. If you like that flavor, you should save the expense for special occasions. I like fresh seafood but guess what? I live in a alpine desert. I don't get to have fresh seafood as often as I'd like. Not unless I learn how fish river trout.
7
@Andy Cows are a good way of turning grass into protein the problem are the feeding pens where animals are fed diets of corn. Something they never ate in the wild. In America we use cattle to turn corn, not grass into protein.
4
@Andy
Cattle, you say, are biologically engineered to live and die for human prosperity. I find this so monstrous, that another living being is being killed to satisfy your belly and that you find that OK and appropriate, like you own it's life. One day, when humanity has advanced enough such notions will be considered repugnant.
For now though, I agree with you that meat should be very expensive.
4
Some animals are designed by evolution to be eaten by other animals. There is nothing even remotely moral (or immoral) about it.
Humans are omnivores. We, and our ancestors, have eaten meat for literally millions of years. There is nothing wrong with it.
There is something wrong, however, with factory farming and CAFOs. We can have our meat and eat it too with a few tweaks here and there.
13
@KW
The real problem is meat has been made too cheap. Our ancestors had to hunt for their meat, and basically ate a diet based on what they could find/catch, it was 'expensive' in terms of having it. Once animals were domesticated, it still took a lot of effort to have meat, and meat was expensive. Take a look at traditional cuisine, much of it didn't emphasize meat, whether it was Asian or even in much of Europe for that matter, most of the food was vegetables, rice and/or bread, meat was a luxury for most. Even when my parents were growing up, meat was relatively expensive because to get to any kind of size, it took time, chicken was really expensive. Today, thanks to stuffing them on corn and corn products, hormones, genetic manipulation in the lab, antibiotics, you have frankenmeat, that gets huge fast, but is full of chemicals and also is full of the wrong kinds of fats, that dirt cheap McMeal is an unhealthy slab of fat.
If we only allowed free range chicken, free range beef, no hormones, no frankenfeed, no antibiotics except to treat illness, it would be a lot more expensive and would be more appreciated, while bringing some balance, which our ancestors had. The ironic part was until pretty recent times, the well off ate diets stuffed with meat , upper classes, and they often were much more unhealthy than the common person, who ate small amounts of meat. Look at medieval or victorian times, it is interesting.
21
@KW When 99.9% of the chicken meat is produced in CAFOs (actual figure), it's going to take much more than a few tweaks. Sustainable meat is unsustainable, so the only option is to turn to CAFOs.
3
@Steve- not if you grow it yourself, or live in an area where it is grown locally and sensibly (like where I live in the rural PNW). City dwelling, and its dwellers, are highly overrated.
I have tried a number of the current meat alternatives, and some of them are OK but still expensive. For example, Beyond Meat burgers are $5.99 for two four-ounce patties, and that works out to $11.98/pound. My family liked the taste and would eat them more, but at that price they're just an occasional treat. I'm already going broke buying us organic produce (which I've found stay fresh longer in the fridge). I can't pay $12/pound for either meat or meat alternatives.
Many meat alternatives also incorporate tree nuts, wheat gluten, soy, mycoprotein, and other allergens as ingredients.
I've tried for years to get my fussy eaters to at least eat beans, in all sorts of creative ways. But. They. Just. Don't. Like. Beans.
We'd all happily go flexitarian or even 99% vegan, though, if we could work out the showstopper bugs, and we'd all welcome actual meat grown in a lab if we could work around all these cost/allergy issues.
WRT family farmers being displaced by new technologies, why can't family farmers just remain on the land and manage meat labs? (And maybe hire city folk who'd love to live in a rural community but who don't already own land or have connections to farming.) Farming these days is already a highly industrial business anyway, and family meat labs could just be the next step in their evolution.
1
@GraySkyGirl Organic beans are 1.00 a can even cheaper dry. You need to research which foods give you the best bang for the organic buck. Sometimes the difference between organic and regular is trivial.
3
Fanatics come in every shape, size, color, and persuasion.
Much good may it do you, but I really don't see this going very far.
4
Bruce Friedrich is welcome to his own views. I, however do not share them, nor do I accept the premise that he *knows* what is best for me or anyone else.
To quote Anthony Bourdain, who's views mirror my own,
"Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter-faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn.
To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living."
Friedrich admits to spattering fake blood on others....as if such a personal assault and blatant hate-mongering action would cause outrage enough that someone would say "gosh, you're right....I want to eat Bean Paste that I have dressed up to "taste" like Chicken?
Leave me alone with your misguided proselyting.
17
@Paul P.
I don't agree with Friedrich's past actions, but how can you possibly act self-righteous about things such as veal and liver? Some foods are far more more cruel than others, and those that Bourdain named are some of the worst, to the point that many meat-eaters will avoid those while still eating other meat. Everyone is permitted their own opinion, but do not pretend for one minute that you could not survive without locking calves up and feeding them nothing but liquid for their very short lives.
14
@Paul P.
And leave others alone as well.
1
@Paul P. Spend some real time around calves, pigs, and other animals and you just might find yourself thinking that killing and eating them isn't what makes life worth living. Animals love life just as much as we do; mammals are sentient beings who take care of their young, feel fear and loss, and communicate with each other (and with us) in many ways. You probably wouldn't eat your dog. What's the difference? There isn't one.
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An animal is well capable of making meat for human consumption, I wonder what the endgame of this type of activism is? This activism makes for binary choices in life, and binary choices will eventually lead to conflict.
If you wish to not eat meat, then don't. Please leave your "I know better than you so I should be in charge", activism at the door. We already have a President who thinks that way.
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@Chris
Worse, far worse, we have a Sandy from the Bronx (aka that obnoxious little twit!)
@Chris
We have a duty to protect the innocent, defenseless from a lifetime of vicious abuse. That's fundamental.
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@Chris Except that it is demonstrably true that industrial animal agriculture is harmful to the planet as well as the animals. Eating tons of meat is also harmful to humans. So, not sure why you can't stand for the truth to be pointed out?
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As someone who grew up with a love of meat I decided many years ago that I just hated the idea of eating animals. So I stopped. I now haven't eaten meat in nearly 40 years. I'm always baffled by the idea of finding a meat substitute. The few I've had have been awful. Once you stop eating meat you find there are so many delicious and healthful other things to eat that you soon lose any desire for it. And soon the thought of eating flesh becomes quite repulsive.
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If god didn't want us to eat meat, he shouldn't have made it so tasty.
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@tom
This comment (joke, I guess? haha, good one) is posted in pretty much every online conversation about vegetarianism/veganism. It perfectly encapsulates the attitude the article is talking about. Let me guess- you love animals too?
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@tom
Then surely you have the obligation to feed your body to some hungry creature.
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@DennisMcG. Your vegan comment (joke, haha, good one) is posted as a counter to every comment from meat lovers who know that loving meat is a natural human thing.
Here's the other thing: Love of meat-eating and love of animals are not mutually exclusive. Animals can be raised and sacrificed humanely.
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Better to continue to emphasize the health advantages of eating no (or less) meat- this approach has more traction, imho. Next is to direct meat eaters to local organic producers, as much as possible, and skip fast food entirely. Hard to make that economic argument to consumers, but the health argument is more tangible.
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The Impossible Burger is actually pretty tasty. Whenever I'm at Bare Burger, I order it. It's all the same to me, plus I know it's better on the environment. So I think the logic here is correct, that if we keep innovating and making good options, people like me will switch over, although not 100%, I'm sure
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@josef012
No, it's "tasty" to YOU.
To me, it taste like everything EXCEPT a burger.
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As a meat eater with no intention of changing, I say more power to Mr. Friedrich and his organization. The only way that society will reduce the amount of meat consumed is if companies produce products that are equally tasty at a lower cost. For me personally to consider reducing my meat consumption, these products would have to equal or exceed the nutritional quality of meat (complete protein, extremely high in minerals and other micronutrients, etc.).
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One huge downside of animal products is they contain no fiber. For health, unless people are eating more fruits, vegetables, legumes, and grains, a fake burger without fiber should be supplemented with plants. Plants such as soy and quinoa are single-source complete proteins, but by eating a variety of plants daily, one gets "complete protein." The U.S. diet contains ample protein. The country does not appear to have an emaciated, protein-deficient population. Foods extremely high in minerals foods are nuts, beans, legumes, dark leafy greens, salmon, seeds, and shellfish. Lower in minerals are mushrooms, whole grains, yogurt, beef and lamb. Avocado is slightly lower. Best to eat a varied diet and to minimize foods that are not as healthy, such as cholesterol, found only in animal products--our bodies make all we need. All real food consists of micronutrients. If one doesn't eat any animal products, a B12 supplement makes sense. Cattle produce it while eating the dirt along with their grass. Feedlot cattle get is as a supplement, along with antibiotics to protect them from their corn diet (they didn't evolve to eat corn), and infections from their enclosed quarters. Hard not to be in standing manure piles. Female hormones make cattle fatter. (Chicken can be soaked in salt water to increase its volume.)
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@Rob-Chemist Try an Impossible burger or a Beyond burger. These products IMO fit your requirements of needing to "equal or exceed the nutritional quality of meat". They probably are actually healthier than, and they taste nearly indistinguishable from, animal derived meat.
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@CB- " If one doesn't eat any animal products, a B12 supplement makes sense..."
That comment makes one consider that if avoiding a certain food will risk producing a crippling and permanent form of anemia or paralysis, then it must be a necessary part of human nutrition in its original form.
If you avoid factory-grown meats, you also avoid most of the other problems you describe. You could also just raise your food yourself, at home or nearby. Many people do, and so should you and everybody.
"The country does not appear to have an emaciated, protein-deficient population. "
Actually, the nation's health problems reveal a national diet that is far out of balance, with some population segments showing clinical signs of protein deficiency and especially among strict vegetarians as a class. The percentages noted therein reflect the health conditions of millions. Any county or state morbidity bulletin will give some insight, as will some of the annual publications by WHO and the CDC. Blanket "observations", and I use the term loosely, do not serve anyone well.
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I love being vegan! Wish I had changed sooner. 60 years old- 2 years in. Whole foods vegan. My peers ask why? Number 1 reason was health and now the number 1 reason is health/animal rights/environmental rights. They are all the same importance in my mind.
Human nature can change- its environmental, social and cultural.
We need you journalists to keep writing about the effects our industrial food systems have on our health and the health of mother earth. Front page- everyday please.
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@Itsnotrocketscience - I love eating meat, and always have. I spent 10 years as a strict vegan in my 20s, and it did not work out well for me health-wise. I switched back to meat with no trouble 30 years ago and never looked back. My doctors all say it's working out just fine.
There is no need to change human nature, because there is nothing wrong with it. There might be something wrong with the way we are living (read: factory farming), or how we think about it. It's a pity that Veganism takes such a religious and condemning stance on this point, because then it becomes much easier to tune it out.
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@Itsnotrocketscience
Are you aware that all those billions of chickens didn't just appear out of the woods? Please tell them that only you, but not they, should live.
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@Itsnotrocketscience- Well I LOVE eating meat!!
I live on an acre in the PNW. I have a garden in the summer, and we grow most everything we eat or put it up. We keep about 10 chickens and eat or sell the eggs.
In the Fall, we "buy" a calf with our friends from a nearby rancher. It grows up in that field not far from my house. We all visit it from time to time to see how it's doing. When it reaches maturity, we get a local butcher to kill and slaughter it. My partner and I get about 2/3 of the cow, and it goes in our freezer. All that lasts us almost a whole year. You have never eaten so well in your life, and probably never will.
There's no need or reason to change human nature, because there's nothing wrong with it. But there might be something wrong with the way one lives, or how, or how one thinks about it. Living with the kind of personal self-condemnation that veganism requires is absurd.
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I think Bruce Friedrich might be on the right track. The nicest, most intelligent people, who are full of sympathy for animals' plight, still eat meat morning, noon, and night. Additionally, animal rights advocates who strike out at those who, I believe, are not the real enemy, derail the mission: putting an end to the leading culprit to climate change, our public health, and the most abhorrent cruelty by humans that exists on our planet today—animal agriculture. Hitting the enemy in the pocketbook by creating tasty alternatives seems like a good strategy to me. For those of us who would love to see a vegan world (I am one of them), I say, "Let's do this!"
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@Eleanor Kas
I agree with you, but I also find the nicest, most intelligent people who are full of sympathy for the plight of animals and are vegan, sometimes have no trouble treating their fellow humans with complete distain, condescension, and disrespect as we see in this article. They undermine the message in a very big way. Splattering fake blood on people is no way to bring someone over to your point of view. Glad to see Mr. Friedrich has had a change of heart.
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I love meat.
I hate veggie burgers. I went to a vegan restaurant once and ate some of their it's not meat, meat. Smelled like meat but it didn't taste like meat.
Let's have more lamb, more chicken, more beef, more real meat.
The windmills are still standing Don!
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@jfr
not sure if I'm the "Don" you're referring to (perhaps Donald's windmills in Scotland?) but the farmers around here don't need windmills:>)
My sister lives (in her solar home) near the Delaware border and grows a good deal of her own veggies (no windmills there either). If you've only eaten vegetables from the supermarket, you'll be stunned to realize how good a newly picked tomato can be.
The thing is, my northern friend, let's enjoy the world together. If you want to eat meat, eat meat. My comment was aimed at people who think it's too hard to switch or there's no tasty vegetables.
The main thing is, whether eating meat, zucchini or writing a NY Times comment, what could be more important than to write out of Delight?
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@jfr That's the reason they are trying to come up with meat alternatives that have the texture and taste of real meat. Meat cell labs are doing a great job of growing meat without the torture.
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@jfr
Clearly, you have not had the opportunity to try the products from Beyond Meat. They produce burger and sausages. I've found them at Whole Foods and Wegmans. You would not know the difference. They are amazing.
It's not all lentils and beans these days, my friend.
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I spent my youth as a pure vegetarian, and didn't "miss" meat. I have been a meat eater since college out of necessity (when I went to college, I couldn't survive on what else was on offer). But I avoid red meat, and prefer fish to poultry -- and at most one meal a day, trending back to my vegetarian roots. Along with many, I am cognizant of the horrific "processing" we do of living animals by the millions for our meals. If you are horrified by what happens in war, or in concentration camps, then consider that the other animals are fellow passengers on spaceship Earth. Animal rights is not a fad, but a response to the last bastion of massive cruelty that humanity has yet to confront. And plant-based proteins are a significant part of the answer.
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@PT. Free range animals live a happy life. A single bullet to the head makes their processing painless and stress-free. If more or all animals were treated this way it would be great. Yes we should work towards that.
But no way should you otherwise judge the rest of us who like meat. It is a natural urge. Look at your teeth.
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We don't have the canines of obligate carnivores. Most of us need a knife to cut meat. Would we had the intestines of animals who are designed to eat meat. Food cultures in which meat is more of a condiment than the main slab were healthy prior to exposure to fast food and sugared drinks.
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@Name (required)
When did you last successfully use your teeth to rip apart an animal and get the meat off its bones? Lol
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On almost every level we need improvement be it social, economic, environmental and health. When we consume the Standard American Diet we disrespect ourselves and the disrespect radiates out to our neighbors, town, city, state and country. When we treat our body with reverence and a gift to be cherished and cared for by eating a healthy and compassionate plant based diet, we radiate the respect and caring to all. The only chance we have to improve the fabric of our society and economy is to improve the quality of our nutrition. It is so simple, so at hand and so delicious! Going Vegan today means YOU GIVE UP NOTHING! Geez, there are Vegan meats! Be part of the solution- there are no down sides!
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@Donn144- one of the problems with Veganism is that it requires that you believe that you, the human being, are fundamentally flawed and evil. Just like most religions, and for exactly the same reasons.
I don't know why any normal, well-adjusted person would choose that believe, no matter where it came from.
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@laguna greg
Maybe it's not about believing / being (good or evil), but about doing (well or not). I have no "beliefs" whatsoever, but am able to live with myself better by minimizing my impact on the earth and other sentient beings.
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@laguna greg
We "believe" the quality of the fuel in our car will have an effect on how it drives, however, it seems the only cause & effect we do not believe is the quality of the food we eat having an effect upon us. Yet, drink a thimble of Alcohol and you feel how it changes you. Too much sweetness or bitterness etc..food has a major effect upon us! We choose not to believe because we find it more convenient and easier to square with our morals or lack there of.
"We've tried to convince the world to go vegan and it has not worked". To my 40-year vegan ears, this is the understatement of the century. My family of meat eaters has pooh poohed my veganism for 40 years. I used to attend family dinners and brought my own vegan entres just to be able to enjoy my family's company. But then I got tired of platters of ham, chicken, beef and fish being passed in front of me. So now, I mostly don't go to their dinners. A few cousins have stopped speaking to me. Some have become quasi-vegetarians - eating mostly salads and veggies - realizing how healthy this way of eating is for them. Thank you Bruce Friedrich for your lifetime efforts.
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@Odehyah Gough-Israel. I hate most vegetables. But I wouldn't avoid my family gatherings just because green peppers are passed in front of me.
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@Odehyah Gough-Israel
I assume your family was equally disgusted by your platters of whatever... soy "milk", perhaps?
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@Odehyah Gough-Israel- This is all so Freudian. Nobody needs to use veganism as an excuse to shun their family. You could just tell them directly that you are angry with them, and then work it out.
Doing it this way will make sure you are alone the rest of your life.
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Why spend so much money trying to create new foods?
You can spend an afternoon on the net and come up with at least 20 vegan recipes - cheap, easily accessible (yes, even in so-called 'food deserts'), healthy and most important - delicious - so delicious they will be better than anything you can get in restaurant (oh, and easy to prepare in very little time)
One of the great secrets?
Spend a little extra time figuring out your favorite seasonings, sauces, dips, etc.
If you don't want to spend the time (or have the time) and don't mind spending a bit more money up front, try this:
1. For two weeks, try out 3 or 4 new packaged sauces/seasonings etc.
2. After you've gotten somewhere between 5 and 10 that make EVERYTHING taste better to you, gradually figure out how to make your own.
If you still feel you can't cook, do the same thing with vegetables, grains and legumes. Take a few months if you like, learn one new recipe every weekend, till you have 5 to 10 you love.
Mix with different seasonings and you now have 25-50 different dishes.
while you're at it, you might spend a little extra time keeping track of what you save on eating out, and it could be as much as $5000 a year!
www.remember-to-breathe.org
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@don salmon
Agree. There are literally thousands of websites out there with amazing recipes.
Also, YouTube Channels that are worth viewing. Two of note Gaz Oakley at avantguardevegan. The other being BoshTV. These are guys from the UK who create amazing food.
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@don salmon. I like meat. It doesn't need sauce. I have no desire to eat all vegetables, or even more than I already do. I would eat only meat, if I thought it was healthy enough.
I eat out because I like to.
You do you. I'll do me.
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@Name (required)
Hi name and location:
Did you take note of the fact that:
(A) nothing I wrote even hinted there was anything wrong with eating meat
(B) nothing I wrote even hinted that you should not eat out or eat meat?
I was addressing people who say they have no time, they don’t know how to cook veggies, they haven’t eaten veggies they like, etc. Also, those who struggle with their budget but haven’t seen how much eating out cuts into their overall savings.
If you like meat and like eating out, eat meat and eat out. As the fellow who is featured in this article made clear, telling people they shouldn’t do something just doens’t work (mostly; high BP finally inspired me to lose 30 pounds in 3 months and have kept it off for 16 years. A year ago my doctor told me I needed statins; i upped my exercise and a few months ago he said there was such a dramatic drop in cholestoral i no longer needed meds; but that’s the exception I think - mostly people, myself included, do things because we want to do them. You and me both)
same wtih exercise,(you know - the best exercise is the one you do) same with good sleep habits, and especially the same with the most important thing - “the one thing needful” - recognizing the open, heartful awareness which always exists underlying yet permeating all of our experience (see Dan Siegel, “Wheel of Awaerness”)
Www.remember-to-breathe.org
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