She is quite a patriot
to keep at it....
It seems as if
the Brits cannot see the
forest for the trees.
The vitriol heaped on
her seems terribly unfair
and undeserved.
2
The gulf between what the EU will offer and what the UK will accept is unbridgeable, for the simple reason that the Leavers lied to the British people.
Now it seems like everyone is about to jump off a cliff out of stubbornness and spite.
4
See the Brexit movie with Bernard Cumberbatch. It taught me a lot about the design of the Brexit campaign and the major players
1
Her only chance of getting the deal passed has always been, almost literally, in the last minutes of March 29th or possibly even a little later. Then it'll be her deal or no deal and her deal might pass. No deal that anyone could have come up with could possibly pass before the last minute. That's just the way politicians work now days since it minimizes potential backlash from extremists in their own parties. I marvel that these people can sit through all the meaningless theatre going on in Parliament while they all wait for that last minute.
2
The whole of the EU is dying. They need to just get this done. In the long run they will be better off.
Should UK get a second Brexit vote? Should UK stay together? Should EU allow this nonsense? Maybe time for UK to ponder the grave errors of history that it committed in splitting nations without a vote with I know best imperial approach.
2
How did such a formerly stable country get so messed up?
They're in a suicide spiral unless moderates can prevail.
4
Seems the “elites” of both parties are waiting in the hope of some Deus ex Machina event that will let them have their tea and biscuits too.
I’ve got news for the “elites”.
The legitimacy of the "elites" is floundering because it's often based on lies and deceiving the public. Always has been. The myth of being "self made" is collapsing (Trump, elite colleges, as some recent examples). They aren't, in fact, smarter, they don't work harder, they aren't any more innovative or industrious than anyone else, and they are far less moral than average people simply because they get away with far more depravity. Some people just get lucky, most are born into it (these are the most entitled). The law of averages dictates someone will eventually win the lottery every time. Shall we all pretend they are smarter, more innovative, and worked way harder than all of us when all they did was buy a ticket?
Even better, let”s pretend God decided they are "chosen" and "earned" it so we all have to listen to whatever crazy stuff they say and do now.
It seems increasingly clear to this (relatively) unbiased European observer watching from the US, that the UK's political structure, from silent Queen to loud-mouthed Brexiteers and not forgetting the quaint idea of a House of Lords and the fact that the residents of that amalgam remain subjects not citizens, is so woefully and thoroughly messed up that only withdrawal and accompanying pain for the subjects will provoke the dearly necessary changes.
1
Theresa May was, as I understand it, in favor of Brexit and realistic about the negotiations with the EU that would be necessary to execute a reasonable "deal."
The problem (again, as I understand it) is that not just voters but also MPs wanted to have their cake and eat it too: all the benefits of EU membership without any of its obligations or regulations or costs.
Naturally this was never going to happen, and Mrs. May has known that all along, but too many MPs were (and still are) unwilling to face that reality.
1
@EveT
It is *Theresa May* who sought to cherry pick benefits of EU membership without having to adhere to all the responsibilities.
For example, she wanted exceptions for certain industries, yet wanted to avoid freedom of movement.
SHE started out with the "cakeism" and cherry picking, and the EU said no.
By the way, TM campaigned (grudgingly) for Remain.
1
How would the British public feel if they had voted to Remain but the political class was trying to thwart their will and to Brexit anyway?
3
@JQGALT
That is a fair question. Remainers would be very angry of course.
But the two are not really comparable. Remaining in the EU requires nothing further to be done, and nothing changes in the relationship.
Leaving the EU, in contrast, requires fundamental changes to our relationship with the EU. Now that nearly three years have elapsed since the vote, the consequences of leaving the EU have become reality rather than speculation. In this case, it is an entirely reasonable exercise of democracy to ask the people if this is what they really want, or have they changed their mind and would rather call the whole thing off.
6
@Joan
Well, there should be a third vote after that in a few years, for a best of three.
1
@JQGALT
If the circumstances change and the people want a vote, why not?
It isn't about "best of three". It is about doing what is right. Everyone votes to take a trip, but then you find the bridge is washed out. Do you insist that the vote was democratically held and therefore must be followed to the end? Or do you take another vote and see if your passengers might want to turn the car around.
3
At this point, the only realistic options I see is to request a 3-month extension from the EU, with the intention of holding another referendum, asking whether or not the UK should remain, leave with the deal on offer, or leave with no deal; with the 2 winners going to a run-off referendum. The result of these referenda would be legally binding, and out of the politicians' hands.
5
The entire Brexit fiasco was avoidable. The referendum didn’t have to happen; it wasn’t legally binding; and only approximately 35% of voters voted for it. Not a requirement, not a mandate, and blinkered by a blizzard of alternative facts.
So why did May pursue it? Why did her party follow her lead? Who actually benefits from getting the E.U. out of U.K. decision making?? Huh?
May commands the British version of the servile GOP, doing the Oligarchs’ bidding.
5
Things just keep getting worse and worse for poor May.
The British influence has been waning since the end of the British empire, but this fiasco will put the final nail in the coffin, so to speak.
As sad as this episode is, the Conservatives have no one to blame but themselves. And again, it’ll be the poorest segment of the population there that’ll have to bear the brunt of the ‘no-deal Brexit’, much like the Rep. base here that voted for the current WH occupant.
Instead of rushing to Strasbourg to secure a deal from Juncker at the 11th hour, that visit should have happened much earlier. And just maybe she might have been able to explain the ramifications of the current fiasco a bit better to her colleagues and perhaps a much-needed win for her government and her own sanity.
If NYT can round up its staff and head to Derry, N. Ireland, why CAN’T she along with her attorney general and her biggest critics (in her own party)?
Once they and the public see the fiasco waiting to unravel, just maybe she can prolong the inevitable long enough for a better deal.
Otherwise, the future of Britain looks BLEAKER than any 19th century novel Dickens penned!!
1
Such pugnacious pomposity posits the precious 'mother of parliaments' may preclude their perpetuity.
2
One question
How much money does it cost so far brexit to UK economy ?
any figure?
2
There is a lesson to be learned here. You get what you vote for.
2
Being neither a fan of Brexit nor the PM, I will at least concede that Mrs. May has not embarrassed the UK. Rather, the UK has embarrassed itself. It allowed itself to be seduced by men using simplistic, and dishonest language, in order to cause itself incredible self-harm. Messrs Johnson and Farage lit the fuse, then walked away from the resulting conflagration.
Jeremy Corbyn, for two years, has offered no realistic alternatives, instead choosing to sit on the fence, hurl simplistic criticism, all the while hoping he gets swept into power by default.
As for MPs, almost all have put narrow or personal interests before the interests of the country. The fact that utter confusion reigns is testament to the poor quality of leadership shown by elected lawmakers, pathetically attempting to tackle a uniquely complex and emotive issue, one that will unquestionably change the nation's destiny.
Mrs May's career is probably nearing its end, and the failure of Brexit (and it will be a failure, no matter the outcome) will be her epitath.
At least it can be said she never gave up, she never disgraced the nation, and she attempted, by all means, to keep the conversation going despite the impossible remit handed her by the xenophobes, the self-glorifiers and the ignorant.
sincerely,
Ashamed to be British
2
C’mon everybody let’s stop being so negative. We might all end up being a bit poorer but there’s clearly insufficient democratic consent to share our sovereignty in the way in which being a member of the EU requires. I voted “remain” but as a nation we now need to lie in the bed we’ve made. Let’s be a bit more like our American cousins and have more optimism - even if it means completely deluding ourselves. As my granny used to say “worse things happen at sea”.
First - the British electorate is too I'll informed to have been allowed to make such a decision. Few, even at the top understood all of the ramifications of the Brexit vote. Bit since they have done so, then immediately after the negotiations were complete it should have been put to a vote - the negotiated solution or no Brexit. No other choices. - a no vote for one choice is a yes vote for the other. And that is the problem for May now. She has no majority support to do anything and is being used as a scape goat. The best choice for her and the UK is to resign. Then someone can come in and say "I will only take the job if it is agreed in advance which way we go on Brexit so that person has a clear mandate.
Wake up, Britain. Stay in the E.U. Reform it from within.
1
What does she have to be angry about? She got to be PM precisely by squeezing in between the two camps on Brexit. She kept a low profile during the referendum campaign and was cagey about staking out a position on Brexit. That was why, when Cameron fell, she had positioned herself to be the acceptable choice for both sides in her party. And now, she is caught between the Leavers and Remainers. Is that a surprise? The very thing that got her into power is blowing up in her face. No, I think the Prime Minister is getting precisely what she bargained for.
2
British economy did well even after Brexit. So Brexit was not the end of the world or did not contribute to sunset on the British empire. Brexit deal is coming well after divorce and so it is the terms of the divorce that are the sticking point. The prenuptial agreement that Britain made with the EU is the problem sticking point.
1
@Girish Kotwal "British economy did well even after Brexit."
There hasn't been a "after Brexit" yet. The UK still belongs to the EU - at least until the 29th of this month.
Until it leaves, Brexit remains just an expression of an intention.
@CFXK I meant after the Brexit vote by the British people.
1
New York Times, perhaps you can re-link to the front page some of those delightful "journalistic" articles from a few years ago praising Theresa May as the voice of reason and the "adult in the room."
It's just the "adult in the room" doesn't seem terribly grown-up now.
Remain.
1
Poor Theresa. Looks like she needs a real friend in Whitehall. Follow old Harry's advice, go the Westminster Kennel Club and get a dog.
2
Faces in the picture is doom and gloom of Brexit.
1
These events shine a bright light on one of the problems with democracy. When there is no clear majority, trouble ensues on actions attempted or taken. The UK should have needed a 60% or higher to exit from the EU. Why don't they have another vote???
1
@Justus what would the citizens of the US say if over a period of several decades they were gradually entangled with a newly formed pan American government, with its own parliament government laws and money - but only ever dressed up as a free trade area. Considering that - which way do you think that super majority should have to swing?
Stephen, how do you think the States became United?
2
We already have that debate in America with federalism vs states rights. You can’t keep dividing up the world until everyone in a little fiefdom agrees on everything. There’s no end to it.
2
Theresa May was never taken seriously by the British aristocracy. She is a sacrificial lamb on Brexit altar, to be offered to British marketeers and gods of foreign adventurism. Mr. Trump faithfully passed on to Mrs. May the message he had received from Nigel Farage and company: "take them to courts," he said, which is to say do a hard Brexit. And it seems that she is straight heading there. Once that is done, her end will come quickly.
1
None of her blustering critics could have done better than Theresa May, whose patience against all odds is commendable. The Brits still believe that they are above all others in Europe. Contrary to their belief that Brexit will return their lost imperial luster, the opposite will happen - England's influence will decline continuously as Europe (and the rest of the world) recognizes it as the kid next door who thinks he is privileged. England may yet be saved by another referendum - if they can keep the Russians from voting.
5
Poor Theresa May. Brexit was not her idea. Why has she continued to be a glutton for punishment? What has she to gain for all she has done? Let those who still think that Brexit will be good for Great Britain, defend it. Great Britain will be less than "Great" after Scotland and Northern Ireland declare their preference for continued EU membership over remaining as part of a no-longer-Great" Britain.
5
It i s long due a guiollitine for Farge and Boris political future.
They should not survive this fiasco.
8
By use of lies, innuendo, and just about every dirty trick in the book Russia and Putin are up to their necks in this phoney vote that basically throws Britain to the wind.
To me they need a do-over but without allowing Putin and his minions from throwing yet a second election. By fear and race baiting the first election allowed the public to be scared to death with lies of them taking over the education system to monsters living in their garages to them starting Shira law to be the law of the land.
The people of Great Britain have awoken from their Russian slumber and you will see them reject Putin’s new plans for Europe given a second more informed vote.
2
This a shameful and depressing end to an unnecessary, and avoidable episode in our history. The 52% referendum vote represented only 37% of the electorate: unquestionably a paper victory, but never at any time a legitimate mandate for what could be foreseen to be a massive act of political self-destruction, with damage extending far beyond the Brexit issue. It will take a stronger leader, and one of higher integrity than any apparent contenders at present, to heal this wound.
2
Past time for the pro-Brexit politicians to recognize that the sun set long ago over the British empire.
Also way past time for these politicians to grow up and make an attempt to govern. They had over two years to find a solution, a compromise that was palatable and failed to do so. They took the easy route by let others do the heavy lifting on a brexit deal with the EU, while they pointed fingers, pontificated and generally began to believe their press clippings.
Hard Brexit, while it is likely to be harder than anticipated for the very people who voted for Brexit, may be the best option to show up the grandstanding pols and to educate them (and those who voted "leave") on the advantages of a global economy.
3
It's difficult to negotiate for something you don't truly support or agree with. Unfortunately this will the UK further divided. I will say there is a bias toward the EU and 'remaining' in this article and publication. The referendum didn't just happen, it was the result of years of unsuccessful negotiations with the EU by the previous prime minister. Sadly, the EU and its body of un-elected officials face little or no criticism for their role in all of this.
Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are not members of the EU and yet life in those countries seems fine. The UK will be alright in the long run, though probably poorer. Brexit supporters will be a continuing political nightmare if it's canceled while if it proceeds, many of the angry will have to focus on something other than the EU, and will be divided and maybe a few will even be pacified. It's unfortunate for those uprooted, but even for them, it's hardly a humanitarian crisis.
1
The question was always too complex to decide with a simple up/down vote. Now that the electorate has had a chance to glean various implications, there should be another vote: 1) yes/no; 2) if yes, soft or hard exit. A change in the status quo, i.e. yes to exit, should require a 2/3 majority. The danger is in step 2; either choice should require (at least) a 60% (or larger) to go forward. If there's not a clear majority for how to leave, the action is to stay.
In short, voters see that any change requires a definite majority approaching if not achieving consensus. This way, Parliament can carry out the clear wishes of a majority of the people. Such a huge change in the status quo should be supported by a huge margin of the electorate.
So fun to comment on issues another electorate faces. The problem is essentially the same as what we face in the U.S., i.e. elected officials don't take the trouble to build consensus before spouting their favorite ideas, and then argue endlessly because they can't get consensus - unless it's one being crammed down. Result -> hyper-partisanship.
1
Sadly, the only bold step that might free Parliament from its delusions regarding Brexit is the only adult in the room, Theresa May, exiting the stage.
With a Knighthood for taking on what was, from the first minute, a thankless and impossible task - Brexit with no exit.
4
The shambles that the UK's exit from the EU has become is a result of a wider cultural and political difference between the parties.
The UK's politics works as a spoken (sometimes shouted) unruly democratic free-for-all in which senior political leaders traditionally work in much the same manner that they tended to work their way through Oxbridge student days. British political leaders work at the last minute, after an all-night, last-minute essay crisis which they are then able to talk about cleverly and inspiringly to pull their party followers behind them through a process of "open outcry" debate.
The EU's politics works as an administratively-driven bureaucracy in which repeated iterations of an established compromise between 28 (now 27) nation states gradually trend towards a solution that the EU27 can support and which eventually accommodates their interlocutors' negotiating requirements or forces their alteration without exposing this process to public view or comment.
So the BREXIT negotiation has been between a messy, outspoken, slightly eccentric democracy and an ordered, slightly Teutonic bureaucracy. It's little wonder the two systems can not find a final resolution.
I was a (mild) Remainer in the referendum, but a reluctant accepter of the need to Leave in the light of that vote. I now feel that it will be simply a blessed relief if the UK exits the EU without further negotiation, or "a deal". However sad, however impoverishing.
3
So now, at long last, Britain and the British will be forced to abandon the myth of a "United Kingdom" and the outright lie that the British Empire _helped_ India, Ireland, Hong Kong, Australia, etc, etc.
8
I wonder if our leader, Mr. Trump, has recommended to Ms. May that she build a big beautiful wall between the Irelands.
Brexit is so simple to solve.
4
The UK voters for Brexit are just as stupid as the US voters for Trump. They both will get just what they deserve. Each should look across the water to see a reflection of their poorly informed choices. Too bad the rest of us have to suffer their poorly informed choices as well.
Note, I did not say "dumb voters" instead I said "poorly informed voters" but sadly the outcome is the same. Maybe if you have to look up "what is the EU" on Google, you should refrain from voting in the UK! Maybe if you cannot pick out Afghanistan nor Crimea on a world map, you should refrain from voting in the US! Why do either of you think your vote will be wise? Blind luck?
4
Two words: hot mess.
5
The British, or at least the English version of British, seem to have been in a truly dumbed down state. First, to have the referendum itself. Really why? Secondly to allow film flam folks like Farage to “explain” the advantages of leaving. Thirdly, to have a “remain” minister lead the exit. Fourthly to have a major party (Labor) have no opinion. This whole farce shows how Albion is becoming Albania and is comparable to the picture “”Dumb and Dumber.”
6
Brexit made for a good bus poster but is probably impossible to implement without catastrophic consequences. It’s always been a lousy idea put forward by incompetents and anarchists. The crux of the problem is that the EU has no incentive to give a spoiled Britain special treatment or an easy path out as it pokes Europe in the eye.
That leaves Brexit with no viable path to life. It’s way past time for British politicians to fix this problem by abandoning Brexit. The uncertainty alone is hurting the economy, and the risk of violence at the Northern Ireland border is added justification.
4
I have to admire May's resolve to see this matter through to the end, and agree that she is done once it ends. An "insane game of chicken" is a good way to describe the crisis that Britain has put itself in. Perhaps this is the primo example of the consequences that elections can have.
2
It sounds like the people who are most angry and disparaging of May are those who think she should have called for a "do-over" of the original Brexit vote. In other words, they demand that she refuse to accept the vote of her citizens. Instead of doing that, she has worked to implement the stated will of the people, even as she disagreed with it.
What she has faced is the stubborn refusal of either side (the stayers and the go-ers) to give an inch of compromise in their opposing demands. Parliament has completely reneged on their jobs, and the former Brexit crusaders have all run for the hills.
But Theresa May stands and does her job, a job that currently no one else seems to want.
4
@Madeline Conant
The result was 52/48 in favour of Leave. As close to a 50/50 split as you’ll ever see.
What sort of legislature enacts major constitutional change without a super-majority?
Of course Parliament isn’t signing off on this. Many of their constituents may be enraged at the “betrayal” of their will now, but they’d be a lot more enraged when they found out that there’s no form of Brexit that doesn’t impoverish them. And that their MP, a representative NOT a delegate, knew this.
The only people in Parliament pushing for this are the disaster capitalists and the DUP who have their own agenda.
I’ve yet to meet or see on TV a Leave voter whose motivation didn’t boil down to either hatred of immigrants or a desire to annoy the Government of the day who clearly thought Remain would sail through. Doesn’t mean there aren’t any, but they can’t be common.
Yes, I voted Remain. For what it’s worth I actually think a second referendum is an awful idea. It’ll just split the country further, but what else is there to do now?
1
I am from Europe. The EU is the best thing that happened for Europe. It brought more than 50 years (!) of stability, prosperity, and, most importantly, peace. It seems that the post-World War II generation of politicians in Britain have forgotten all about those two horrendous wars and the unimaginable suffering they brought to millions of people. I am simply appalled they are going back to short-sighted nationalism. Britain always wanted special treatment in the EU - and got it. They want out - fine, let them go and see how that will be working out.
11
You can lead a horse to water...
The EU has done all it could, each time swallowing its pride to offer Theresa May something new to convince her stubborn Parliament. Enough is enough.
All we can do now is sit back and watch the democratically elected representatives of Britain decide.
Elections have consequences.
6
Theresa May bangs on about not betraying the majority Brexit vote. But Brits were betrayed at the get-go by hucksters like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson who used preposterous falsehoods to promote leaving the European Union. Time for a second referendum.
7
I wonder how many people ever considered that democracy would eventually end up in the hands of uninformed, misinformed, and uninterested voters. People whose attention span on the issues is far shorter than the impact that their votes make. For every educated person studying the pros and cons of an issue, there are a dozen who are swayed by a commercial spouting half-truths and misrepresentations. All over, I worry that we're subject to the tyranny of the dumb.
8
May inherited a mess, she did not create Brexit. The parliament has been behaving like spoiled kids, much like our Congress. There is no such thing as compromise? Guess this is what happens when you decide to let the public decide what will happen vs. a group of representatives that should be held responsible for any outcome or unintended consequence.
Shame on the elitists in parliament that just say 'no' with no solution. In my company, if you bring up a problem but offer no solution, you will be fired over time. Seems that we no longer see parliament, or Congress, as a team hired to work together to solve problems (real, not invented by social media and the biased news orgs.) together; where ALL are responsible for the outcomes.
2
Political courage in times of disaster is rare, but often times necessary, its needed now! Ms. May is finished and she knows it, but she can salvage her dignity if she just says enough. Brexit was the dream of nationalists who like trump here wanted old glory back. But, its a new day in Europe and the world, they just didn't know it. Ms. May should just say no, saying the UK will remain in the EU and be done with it. The EU would gladly have the UK remain and if the vote were taken now the results would be overwhelming to remain in the EU. Forcing the proverbial round peg in a square hole will only further damage the UK and the rest of Europe. Be brave, stay!
4
One can be sure that by now the Prime Minister wishes that she had never heard of Brexit.
2
I truly hope that readers and the NYTimes board reflect on Brexit from a larger perspective. Brexit is purely about giving the public the right to vote on something so complex that 90% are clueless. Nothing more than emotions. And the media and politicians complicit in pushing emotion before fact are truly guilty parties.
This is proof that the public should never be allowed to vote on policies short of can we sell liquor on Sunday or legalize pot. The public is not sufficiently educated in root cause analysis to do anything other than vote with emotions created in a 10 second blurb that hits them on social media.
And, PS, that is what identity politics is - nothing but a divisive blurb with isolated examples created to sell you on what you should think and feel.
3
UK citizens should demand a new referendum vote. If the people they sent to represent them in the democratic process are not capable/willing to find a solution, give the voice and the vote back to the people! Now that all the lies that led to this situation have been exposed and the hard truth of the consequences of exiting the EU are clear, whatever the people of the UK decide will be based on actualities, not myths and lies.
1
Theresa May's "personal" tragedy is nothing compared to the tragedy too many of us are experiencing as hatred and exclusion overcome our humanity.
The UK has one last chance to come to its senses and rejoin the world.
The earth has very little time and May/conservative climate policies have been execrable. I know this seems off topic, but the EU was one of the few civilized entities that was really trying for a while to make things better.
Prejudice is no substitute for action, as toxic waste and corporate overkill despoils our lovely finite home.
Sayonara, hospitable planet ...
5
The only thing the Prime Minister seems to be good at is hanging on to her job.
4
Brexit was voted in quickly without careful debate or any public studies of the resulting affects. It was an emotional vote fueled by a huge disinformation campaign led by Farage and the likes of Bannon and Mercer’s Breitbart media. It just goes to show how propaganda and social media can affect voters, just like the US 2016 vote. The Brits have buyers remorse and May is caught in the middle. The best thing to do is have a re-vote on the whole thing now that their citizens have had a chance to actually understand what Brexit would mean for their nation.
1
This article states that Mr. Cox "had a chance to throw the prime minister a life preserver, he declined."
This is misleading. Mr. Cox provided a legal statement/opinion. He cannot decide what legal statement to provide. One would have to have a cynical opinion of the law to think that, when a lawyer provides legal advice that the client does not like, that lawyer is "declining to throw a life preserver." His job was to provide a legal opinion. He did that.
2
“Watching them strut around Parliament today, there are clearly a lot of people thinking about their places in history,” he said. “There are very few people thinking about what happens next”.
This is perhaps the problem. “What happens next” is the only thing they control. The rest is not in their hands. Nor does it matter to the history they vaingloriously fancy that they are making.
Europe isn’t eager to avert Brexit. She only wants it done soon, orderly and for good --- one way or another. “Transactional” U.S. is too obsessed with her own self-inflicted wounds to care about others’. The Commonwealth or other friends, even if willing, are too weak for the task. The Parliament should be decisive or leave it to a ‘referendum’.
1
The level of misunderstanding on the part of NYT readers about the causes, course and consequences of Brexit is truly shocking. Here's the story in a nutshell:
1.) The Tories implemented a heartless austerity policy nearly a decade ago. The radical cutbacks in public services hit areas of the deindustrialized north and east hardest.
2.) At the same time, London did very well due to its position as a center of globalized trade and finance.
3.) Freedom of movement brought modest immigration to Britain, mainly in the form of Eastern Europeans.
4.) A small group of Tory Euroskeptics, almost exclusively from wealthy backgrounds, saw a chance to realise their fantasy of a right-wing, free-market Britain to growing xenophobia and popular discontent over austerity (caused by their policies).
5.) Three especially unsavoury and dissembling politicians, Nigel Farage (leader of UKIP), Michael Gove and Boris Johnson waged a campaign of misinformation, blaming the economic effects of Tory austerity policy on the EU and immigration.
6.) David Cameron, in a colossal blunder to shut them up, allowed for a Brexit referendum. Many Remainers stayed home.
7.) Brexit won, its architects fled, and the mess was handed over to Theresa May, who is willing to push it through because she is violently anti-immigration. But she, a financial moderate, is now held hostage to the same wealthy Brexiteer extremists that plotted this whole mess (e.g. Jacob Rees-Mogg and the ERG).
7
@Dr.OfNothing
Excellent summary of how we got to this point.
I still don't understand why no one talks about how that referendum was so crooked. They all want to act as if it were sacred and only the best possible reasoning was used to achieve it. is this the habit over there? Or are they afraid of what might happen if they admit an election can be stolen with propaganda?
2
Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Farage should be held personally liable for the 350 million pounds a week they said would flow back into the country after the vote. Remember? The money they said could be used to shore up the NHS.
Maybe politicians would stop lying if they were held accountable.
7
There is enough chaos in US politics to keep me occupied, but I am curious why another UK national vote on Brexit is being avoided particularly when the first was seemingly tainted.
1
She was tasked to do what no human could accomplish. Her biggest mistake was calling the impossible possible.
Now the people who got the UK into this will blame her for "not trying hard enough"/"not really believing in Brexit"... claim they could've done better with zero evidence to support them... blame the very people whose lives and peace they've put at risk... argue that crashing out is perfectly OK no matter who it hurts...
...anything but take responsibility for what they did.
Just like here.
1
I visited the UK, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland several times the past year.
Travelling on business last year in the UK, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, I spoke with many taxi drivers. They surprised me with their candid, heartfelt comments. In the UK and Ireland, they were fairly unanimous. They thought leaving the EU would, while painful at first, help restore the UK's values concerning being industrious, inventive and independent. This would ultimately lead to greater prosperity. While in Northern Ireland, the drivers gave me a sense of foreboding and fear that Brexit would result in an outbreak of violence again. The taxi drivers in Northern Ireland retold their childhood nightmares like they were yesterday.
1
I don't know that I agree with all of Theresa May's policies, but I do admire her. I too don't understand the flack that she has received. She has worked tirelessly, ceaselessly, for a situation which she cannot win. It might be time for her to step down and let the UK marinate in its own sauce. I hope she enjoys the rest.
6
I used to admire Theresa May for her determination, but she has never admitted that Brexit was touted to the british people as a win-win deal while they were kept in the dark about unpalatable aspects of it like the problem of the border between the two Irelands, and that the EU will not bow to brexiteers' unrealistic demands. Now that they know what it entails, including the fact that it could provoke the break-up of the United Kingdom, they should be given the chance to review their choice. As someone commented on the PBS Newshour last night, the only one who is happy about Brexit is Putin.
7
@Jacqueline I have developed a suspicion that Putin was in some nebulous - or at least untraceable - way involved in the original pro-Brexit infotainment enthusiasm. He was a busy boy in 2016...
2
With her own party sharply divided, and Labour twiddling its thumbs, Ms. May should just admit that there is no solution that will satisfy a majority, and throw in the towel. She's labored under constant stress for what? It would be one thing if some combination of factors would win the day, but there isn't. Let some other member of her party pick up the mess and see what he or she could do. I'm guessing not much.
They'll wind up asking for a delay, and the EU will probably acquiesce, but will anything change? They'll just be facing the same dilemma in 90 days. I'd love to see some polls of current sentiments regarding another vote. If a majority wants a do-over, that's what they should do, and put this mess behind themselves.
At least we Yanks can look forward to 2020.
3
And now for something completely different, a positive observation of the Brits who have ridiculed and humiliated themselves before Europe and the world in pursuit of delusional dreams of long-lost imperial glory, most of which never existed outside the myths that “once a great nation” people comfort themselves with against the chill brought on by the dying embers of distorted memory: here is a process of order, legality, calm and even decororum which marks the evolution of that most democratic “mother of parliaments” and the society and nation which gave it birth.
46
@Alfred di Genis Some, at least, of the Leaver sentiment looks to the future rather than the past. Some, indeed, hoped for a rededication to the principles of democracy that the Commission, for one, seem content to brush aside. True, the proximate victims were the citizens of countries like Greece and Italy, but the trend was - and remains - clear. The Commission leadership is by appointment in all but name; the policy choices of national elections and parliaments can be set aside or overridden and laws themselves (in the sense of EU Regulations) are selectively enforced. But intra-party faction is poisonous to democracies, especially in combination with historical injustices and disputes that have never been fully resolved. Which Western country, on either side of the Atlantic, could in all honesty claim to be completely immune?
@Jonah Stiff upper lip and all that. Or perhaps merely a re-run of the Charge of the Light Brigade.
1
@Alfred di Genis
"Once a great nation" is not a myth, although Germans may not agree for obvious reasons.
2
As an EU citizen, I would like to urge the Law- Makers from UK to retract their Brexit application. Some politicians lied to UK citizens using far fetched stories and statics and many fell for it.
In any family, it is better to keep the family together than split the family for the sake of the children, here in this case both EU and UK citizens.
74
@Asian Philosopher
Nigel Farage get golden Lenin medal from Putin for his stellar role in Brexit.
2
@Asian Philosopher
Why should folks in the UK continue to be ruled by your beloved Eurocrats? If they want to go let them.
@Asian Philosopher It's difficult to explain how some of the English have decided that Brexit is some kind of panacea and that remain is a kind of death. You've probably noticed all these demented references to WWII and how th EU has taken the place of the Nazi. This is sick stuff and has little to do with what the EU is actually about
1
I feel sicked that the UK is in this predicament because the vote was handed to the people of our country, without accompanying knowledge of what the implications were for businesses, our economy and mostly our friends. I have two friends who hold foreign passports, but have lived as UK citizens for 3 decades - they are now fearing what it means to hold their second passports as they are being put through a rigorous process to apply to remain. They have families here, they have supportive friends, but they have also been used as pawns by their own Government over negotiations with the EU for an exit deal. Treat us all like UK nationals, treat us all as friends of the country, treat us all appropriately.
69
As a European citizen, i had deeply regretted the dicision of the Majority of the Voters in UK.
But, as many young voters and many pro-European´s did not turn out when it was Time to vote, the 52% result to leave the EU is a fact.
It is not good neither for the EU or, much more, for the people in the UK (as long as one can still call it so, "United" Kingdom...)
Nevertheless, despite all the lies and fake "facts" that came from the Brexiteers (just think about the 350 Million pounds per week which after Brexit would go to the Health System, the word that for all the Contratcts the EU has with others Britain just have to "copy and paste" them...
It is now reality that Britain shall leave the EU on March 29th, and i am meanwhile against any delay, any 2nd referendum, they should just leave and see the reality.
Then, after some years, when the facts have reached the people in their daily life -they can always ask for a Membership again.
This time though, the EU should not give them all the privilegs that the UK previously has.
This way we (the EU) is better off and that is what we should look for.
The British people, at least a part of them, live still in the Time of the Empire. It is about time now to wake up and face reality. Only united europe has a chance in the world, even a Country as Big as Britain (or Germany) for itself cannot compete with China or the US.
78
@Thomas Naveen Rueb
It is not 52% of the electorate, it is 52% of the people who turned out to vote. And the referendum, in accordance with UK law, was not mandatory, only consultative, without obligation to implement it. For a referendum in the UK to be binding on Parliament, it requires special legislation passed by Parliament. It was done for the 2012 referendum on proportional representation, not in 2016 for the EU ref.
Become the political system in the UK was in terminal decline before the current mess (the result, not the cause of that decline), the law was ignored for the sake of populism, as all dying systems do.
6
What a bloody shambles. The UK is two weeks away from crashing out of the EU without a deal, and despite not holding a single card, Theresa May refuses to fold. The trouble with the Brexit vote is that it gave the populace - the majority of whom were uninformed or ill-informed - a leave/remain only vote. No nuance, no explanations, no guidance - just Michael Gove on the telly saying people had had enough of experts and Boris Johnson's big red NHS bus. No wonder the most searched terms on Google the day after the vote were 'what is the EU?'
Extend Article 50, call a general election, and hold a second referendum. And maybe bring in some experts this time who know what they're talking about instead of relying on John Q. Brexiter to educate himself.
119
@Elaine I almost agree. Some decisions cannot be made by referendum and none should be made by simple majority referenda. The Brexit example should undoubtedly have been clearer, more reliably and impartially informed and accompanied by a 2/3 threshold requirement for change.
But at some point the people must bear some responsibility. They should have been able to foresee at least the broad outlines of what has transpired.
Rescind Article 50, don't extend it. No point in trying to decide this until we are mature enough to consider it.
As for a General Election, how can we reasonably hold one with two such broken and incoherent parties? What have we learned from our friends in the US?
Maybe we could get a better government with proportional representation to avoid handing the fate of the country to an extremist minority (DUP) of a minority (Protestants) of a minority (Northern Ireland). By now, we should know the dangers of hung legislatures - plenty of examples throughout the world.
But even a better government should not be asked to deal with this cocktail of Brexit and the resurgent Troubles.
7
@Elaine
Sure lets keep voting until the Remainers get the result they want.
@James Why not - the PM seems content to keep giving the Commons 'meaningful vote' after 'meaningful vote' Sauce. Goose. Gander.
Anyway, if we have another referendum (say on rejoining the EU) in about 5 years, it *will* go the other way. Shame about the cost of waiting till those with no economic interests left to defend are dead, but that can be their memorial.
2
PM May tried her level best to implement an impossible proposal. A majority of British citizens and members of parliament do not have the will to make Brexit happen -- no PM can overcome that obstacle.
3
@FredInOhio
May never believed in Brexit and made the worst deal in the hopes that she could con folks into taking it by saying the sky would fall w/o it
By any measure she does not have the confidence of he Commons, the only reason shes still in office is the Tories don't know who to prop up in her place to face Corbyn in a general election. If she had any honor she would fall upon her sword and force the matter.
1
There never was a vision, strategy or a plan to make Brexit happen in an orderly fashion. The moment Ms May started on this journey she knew it was a lost cause.
While I wish the UK all the best I'm not sad that an appeal to the worst in human behaviour that lead to barely enough votes to trigger a Brexit process is met with a completely broken and foolish fight against windmills.
You may win "control over your borders back", but the costs of this foolishness cannot be high enough to ensure this sentiment never, ever wins wins again.
15
@Dutchie I'm afraid your optimism echos that of "the war to end all wars." Xenophobia is deeply ingrained around the world - Hungary, Slovakia, the United States and on and on - and, like belicosity, is an easy button for politicians to push...
1
Good riddance to PM May. May never believed in Brexit and made the worst deal in the hopes that she could con folks into taking it by saying the sky would fall w/o it.
1
Not the point of the article, but again and again recently, the Times coyly describes a term as “unprintable”. Why? Does the Times think readers won’t understand who said it? Attribute profanity to the paper instead of the source? Or is some (misguided, outdated) Puritanism? It’s unprofessional and makes readers seeking the news look to other sources who trust them as having fundamental intelligence.
1
Beyond time to admit this was a very dumb idea and throw in the towel.
3
Theresa May was originally a remain person. Perhaps as PM she has sacrificed her career, sabotaging Brexit, and in the end, the UK will remain in EU? just a thought...
4
I have been following this story for quite some time, and I cannot understand the criticism of the Prime Minister from all around. She inherited this mess from her predecessor who made the incredibly stupid decision to have a referendum.
The deal that was negotiated is not a great deal, but how could there ever have been a great - or even a good - deal? The critics seem to have forgotten that there is something called the EU on the other side of the negotiations and that the EU would never give the UK a good deal lest they would encourage other EU member states to jump ship. So why all the flack against Ms. May? The issues are incredibly complex, the people on the other side of the table are entrenched, and there will never be a good negotiated deal. The Brits, with a mixture of naïveté, hubris, and arrogance made their bed. Now, they should lie in it and dream of empires past
80
@Romeo Salta
1. "I have been following this story for quite some time,"
2. " and I cannot understand the criticism of the Prime Minister from all around. "
May is the architect and holds ALL of the responsibility for this very deliberate mess. If you contend otherwise all I can surmise is that either :
1. is a lie or
2. is a lie or
3. you're a cynic or
4. you're
Regards.
1
@Romeo Salta
Here are TM's failures:
1. triggered art 50 with no plan, starting the clock for the two-year withdrawal negotiation period.
2. deciding on several non-negotiable positions and refusing at any time to deviate from them
3. refusing and failing to consult the devolved governments.
4. refusing and failing to reach out to the other parties in Parliament to form some kind of consensus on what brexit should look like.
5. recklessly postponing votes on her deal in order to run down the clock and force acceptance of her deal, while bringing the same deal back to the HC multiple times.
6. lying to the public about the real consequences of leaving the EU, especially without a deal
Yes, the EU will refuse to allow cherry picking the benefits of the single market; the Four Freedoms are the foundation of the Union. The UK chose to leave and cannot expect to retain the benefits of membership.
I hope this clarifies for you why Theresa May will be remembered as one of the worst PMs ever.
9
@Joan. I'm curious to know, though, where the better leadership is hiding? Where the better ideas and compromises are just waiting to be found? I don't think May has done a great job, and I'm not aligned with her politically, but I don't think *anyone* has done a great job. It's easy to blame the person in charge, but truly, the whole thing is an impossible mess and the only good option, it seems, would have been to ignore the results of the referendum, which would have been its own political disaster. It would have been impossible to trigger article 50 *with* a plan, as no negotiations were really happening until such a time.
5
What other leader has had to deal with an issue of this magnitude of late. It is easy for others to think they could have done better. Haven’t seen anyone else come up with an acceptable deal. I admire May for the effort she has put into a truly impossible task.
10
Since a hard Brexit would be disastrous, Parliament should vote down it down today, and then vote to postpone Article 50. Then there needs to be a reckoning: a new referendum seems the best course, now that the British public understands the implications of their votes. And they should stay in the EU, even though a good deal of unrecoverable damage has already been done.
12
Despite all evidence to the contrary, it seems that all British politicians are in denial that Brexit will happen, and have done little or nothing to prepare for the "hard Brexit" that is currently scheduled for the end of the month.
For example, have there been any efforts to construct and implement the customs and other controls that will be required at the border between North Ireland and Ireland? At all the other British ports of entry?
Because that is the "plan" they all voted for if there is no agreed-on "back-up plan."
6
If your a right winger whose policy will ruin your country your political future should be ruined. Theresa is just as likely to be a russian asset as Trump is. One must consider that nearly all right wingers are assets or at least to dumb to know they are doing the bidding of their nations enemy.
I hope that the UK goes through with this self punishment and shows the world the stupidity of the right wing. It may be too late for the US and the UK because the cult of the right is so intent on damaging and hurting others that they may no even wake from their delusion even when it is clear what their policies really do. However, there is a whole world who can be taught a lesson learned by the UK and the US as they destroy themselves for no reason except insanity.
16
@Chris May was tasked with addressing the choice that was voted on in the referendum. She didn’t make the Brexit decision on her own. Unlike our US politicians who seem to make policy based on what will line their pockets or get them re elected vs policy based on the majority of the will of the citizens, she is doing the job that the electorate voted on. I personally think Brexit is a folly but don’t blame her for doing the job she was given.
6
@Chris, May voted against the Brexit. She's been forced to doing this job. Yes, she might have resigned, and then what good? Corbyn on the left wants the Brexit, too, and refused to go against it. He thinks if Britain suffers enough, the people will give him permission to do whatever he wants. That's how bad it is.
2
The faces in the picture defines the Brexit enthusiasm.
How a nation self strangle itself.
7
It boggles the mind that anybody could believe that the UK could negotiate beneficial positive solutions to Brexit with the EU. The EU doesn't want people leaving and couldn't make it easier for any member nation to do so. I don't think I've ever seen such stupidity. I'm surprised the EU has been as accommodating as it has been (although I think it is more for show). Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Milan, etc., will pick up the slack. The businesses that have left aren't coming back. I'm wondering if the citizens of the UK understand that all member nations of the EU have to agree to any delay. That vote means nothing. There will be no delay. But by all means, keep voting. I have never been so bored. You voted for it, now leave and pay the price. That is the only way you might have a chance in the future when you beg to come back.
27
Theresa May had always wanted to Prime Minister. Even before Thatcher, she hoped to be the First.
And my bet all along is that they made her PM, to be the “Fall Guy” for what was obviously - even 2.5 years ago - going to be a mess. So the the sad thing is that he “quest” was doomed from the start. She’d actually been a Remainer. But switched over to promising Brexit, even saying over and over that’s “what the British people want” - even when many actually wanted a redo.
And what amazes me when I watch the BBC News is that the Brits never refer back to Russia’s meddling in Brexit. They blame this or that politician - but they don’t examine how their nation became so divided. (While we know the Russians did a “trial run” of our 2016 election via the Brexit vote.)
We had better learn from this. It’s crucial we understand everything about how Russia meddled in our election, how we ended up with a terrible “leader” - filling the swamp, never draining it.
Brexit May leave Britain a shell or its former self. And Trump may leave the US a failed state. (I hope I’m wrong!)
36
Children playing with matches rarely ends well.
11
Still seems to me that either Britain has a second referendum on this and votes to stay in the E.U. after all, or it exits with some varying degree of catastrophic outcomes. No matter how it exits, its economy is going to be hamstrung, and it'll have a negative impact on Europe's economies too. Quite possibly this idiocy will cause a worldwide recession.
So I hope they come to their senses and wind up staying in the E.U., but if they don't, I hope Britain's suffering is enormous, and that they realize it's all due to those who voted for leaving.
As for Ms. May, clearly she's the wrong prime minister for the moment. No idea why she hasn't resigned yet.
11
As someone of Middle East origin I am overwhelmed with joy watching the Empire that carved up our lands with the stroke of a pen (remember Sykes - picot) crumble away as many of our nations did under their “civilized” and “western” mandate and guidance. What comes around I guess goes around. No remorse and no pity. I hope N. Ireland and Scotland breaks free to give the Brits a piece of their own medicine.
10
@Mustafa
And I hope that circumstances are such that human suffering is minimized and human dignity protected, whatever country those people happen to live in--which one of us is reacting to this in a way that could help build a better world, do you think?
3
At a time when America is in Trump Freefall, and Europe saw the venerable UK also crashing piece-by-piece, the Western World could only stand by agonizing all this in horror.
To make matters worse, both Trump and May were indescribably
INDIFFERENT to the devastation to their country’s infrastructures and the irreparable harm they were causing.
May has destroyed herself as has Trump.
The victories and the spoils belong to Putin!
8
For heaven's sake. Members of Parliament need to put aside their political positions for the good of the country at this point. Declare for a second referendum. My bet is that the British public will vote for Remain because enough of them have seen that they were sold a "bill of goods" the first time by that fool Johnson and the ever so smarmy Farage.
10
@Etienne -- I hope you're right. If the voters defeat Brexit in the do-over, and one of the parties finds a non-tainted, effective leader to succeed May, then the UK can treat this whole thing as a protracted period of national temporary insanity. Kinda like where I hope we will be on January 20, 2021.
On the other hand, the Brexiteers have the advantage of being able to stir up their base on the ground that they are being robbed of their victory. If Brexit wins again, none of the problems that have gotten the UK, the office of the PM, and Parliament to this juncture will magically go away. I feel very, very sorry for whoever succeeds May in that situation.
1
Meanwhile Corbyn waits, having refused even to state a position--ready for a hard brexit to "teach" the nation what desperation is--and then they'll follow him anywhere. Another disaster politician, this time on the left. It's never they who pay the dreadful prices of their strategies for power. He's as bad as any Tory.
11
@jb Actually, Corbyn has been against Britain being a member of the EU for his whole career, so he hasn't changed his position until recently. Labour is also divided between remainers and leavers, with remainers in the urban areas and leavers a majority of its rural members.
1
@jb More lazy left bashing... Labour has stated a position. Look it up on their website. Listen to them stating their position on TV or in the newspapers, it's really not hard to ascertain what it is.
Iris, I'd be on the left if in Britain. Pretending that Corbyn's last-second "stand" was anything but a too-late and forced pretense is for people who don't know the facts. Check out how many on the left are leaving his party.
1
The chickens are coming home to roost.
The vote should not have been held, even though Cameron thought it would easily go his way to remain as did an earlier referendum; instead he should have had the courage to remind the UK that it would only be strong as a part of a larger whole EU.
Many Britains didn't vote because of deep philosophical or civil rights-based notions, but primarily to keep more non-white English out of the country. The issue of the Irish border was always an obvious Gordian knot that no one wanted to address before or right after the vote. Now it's going to sink any possibly survivable way forward.
May equivocated in how she approached the Brexit process, serving the Brexit Tories before the whole country and trying to exclude Parliament. This recent humiliation was entirely earned.
The idea that the EU would do a "special deal" for the UK was always a ridiculous notion. Now the UK will slowly slip under the waves of economic stagnation and political irrelevance, if it's lucky.
It's as if George III was resurrected to finish off the job he began when he lost America.
8
Why not UK split itself into two countries, pro- and anti-Brexit?
That will be coool!
6
@HarYes and I actually think we should eventually do the same here.
5
@Har -- Didn't the Scots think about that and then step back from the brink?
This disaster is a real-time example for us of what happens when a government gives veto power to its Far Right. The Johnson’s and Reese-Mogg’s of Britain are wealthy and comfortable and can only think in terms of their own gains and losses, with no thought or care for how others far below them will be affected by what they do. And in their self-centeredness they will bring a sizable piece of their country to ruin while they remain largely untouched by what they have unleashed.
17
I for one admire Theresa May and I think history will treat her more kindly than her contemporaries have. If you look up "tough" in the dictionary, you'll find her photo.
15
@Madeline Conant, she'll come out better than Corbyn, and I say that as a person well to the left. No one wanted to handle the grenade but someone will have to now. Step up, gentlemen, and best wishes to May in her coming retirement.
10
@Madeline Conant
Where you see "tough" I see obdurate to the point of unhinged obsession, and a callous indifference to the suffering caused by her policies both as Home Secretary and PM.
She has no political skills whatsoever and given that the stakes involved are the most profound since the second world war, there is absolutely no question that her performance has been dire.
2
@Madeline Conant
May never believed in Brexit and made the worst deal in the hopes that she could con folks into taking it by saying the sky would fall w/o it
1
Theresa May knew that Brexit was wrong and voted against it. A majority of the country now knows Brexit to be wrong, but May still plunges ahead, her perceived sense of duty overwhelming her conscience and judgement.
Speak your mind Ms. May!!
10
The referendum was a mistake because those pushing Brexit promised more than just leaving. They promised that the government could negotiate a positive solution with the EU. The government could not do that, and so to do a hard Brexit would actually go against the expectations of the population.
It is the responsibility of the entire government now, not just May, to tell the public they cannot find a positive way to exit. They should NOT put another referendum in front of the country other than a new general election. Either the people will believe that Parliament tried its best and that there just isn’t a solution, or they will vote in an entirely new group of MPs who will try to figure out a solution.
7
David Cameron's smartest move: resigning after the Brexit vote. He knew the implementation would destroy the political future of any PM attempting to lead Britain through the process.
59
@JenD
Yes, he made a mistake and a mess and just walked away, leaving parliament to try to fix it. Just like Farage.
43
@JenD Cannot be repeated enough - the men who helped push Brexit declined to implement it.
31
@Sheri DH that's the political pattern everywhere. Politicians that make bad decisions are always absent when it's time to clean up what ever - the destroyed war torn country, the environment, the injustice...
3
In 1970, being a Dutchman from Amsterdam and just having achieved a MSc degree there in Civil Engineering I was offered my very first job. It was in London which I accepted with great excitement. Big mistake. Senior staff were arrogant, treating all non-Brits, including me, as cheap hired fodder to be taken advantage off. I quit quickly and moved to California which from all angles, especially Professionally, was paradise. Reading now about the non-stop confusion in London and the constant desire to be separated from the EU it is obvious that things will never change. The Brits invented driving on the wrong side of the road, they just don't fit in. Its in their blood.
22
@rudolf I wonder of the 3.8 million EU nationals who have chosen to make their lives in the UK feel the same as you. Most seem to want to stay despite Brexit. If things are bad as you suggest are they all masochists?
1
@Bluntnib. Lots of Jews refused to leave Germany in the late 30s as well. People are in denial or they hope for the best. Getting out of London seems like a very good idea if you think rationally.
1
The supporters of Brexit promised the voters a solution that would provide a positive way out with a negotiated agreement between Britain and the EU. Obviously they couldn’t find a way to achieve that; so they should go back to the people and tell them Brexit cannot happen because they couldn’t deliver what they’d promised. If the people still really want to leave then they will elect new leaders in the next election. If they believe the government tried its best and there is no good solution for leaving then
2
All the 'smart money' is saying the No Deal Brexit vote fails today, meaning the Parliament votes against leaving without a deal. It seems likely to me that if that is actually the case then there will be no Brexit at all. That means there is a chance the smart money is wrong, again. I will not be surprised when they pass the No Deal vote today and just get on with the WTO withdrawal that is inevitable now.
2
For readers to truly understand what is happening in the UK they need to visit a kindergarten class and observe children having temper tantrums - holding their breaths, screaming, etc. - until their demands for a lolly are met. The child doesn't know or care how much the lolly cost, where the lolly comes from or whether a lolly is unhealthy for them; they simply want their lolly and no amount of compromise ("try this lovely biscuit") or cajoling ("nap now, lolly later") or firmness ("no, lolly will spoil your supper") will distract the child. Until of course they are ready for nappies and the whole thing is forgotten when they wake up --- while the adults are left with the task of cleaning up the spilt milk and scattered utensils.
In this case the kiddies have the added benefit of knowing that no matter the consequences of a 'hard' Brexit, they still receive their generous government stipends while the real economy suffers the consequences.
Personally, I believe the likes of Greece and Italy have far greater reasons to have EU-induced temper tantrums than the UK which leveraged it's membership to become a global financial powerhouse - which it is now forsaking for the smug satisfaction of Little Britain.
24
The most lucid and useful description of Brexit, pre and post, can be heard by Fintan O’Toole, the Irish Journalist. Search for him on YouTube. He also explains calmly and lucidly why the Irish situation re Brexit is so important.
He also mentions when asked who actually voted for Brexit and why, that it was the same kind of disillusioned, yearning for a past when factories and unions provided living wages voter who voted for the current President in America.
Then, compare Mr. O’Toole, the journalist, to Tucker Carlson, the journalist, and see what you think.
9
@DKhatt - I don't think Tucker Carlson calls himself a journalist.
6
@willw
My mistake.
Oh poor Teresa May? She and her fellow Torres have led the UK to this abyss, and her Brexit approach was always designed to panic people at the last minute into supporting her deal. Like her predecessor and her fellow Tories, this has always been about intra-Party politics, not what's good for the nation. She never seriously reached out to Brexit opponents or Labour, preferring to try and appease hard-Brexit Tories even when it was clear that wouldn't work and in the face of increasingly dire warnings from British businesses. Now she reaps the spoils of that narrow and misguided approach, and drags the UK down with her. No sympathy here.
10
@Rick McGahey, you don't seem to know much about what Labour has been going through. Would that the fans of Brexit were only Tories. But no. Check out Corbyn and the mess on the left before you declare judgement.
5
I don't understand. Brexit can't happen. It's just too complicated and convoluted with no real benefit. So let it die.
I am not surprised May can't work a deal, because no deal could exist.
Is it too much to ask that the government get back to the business of governing. They have merely to look across the pond to see how it is done !
2
It’s comforting to know that our British cousins are just as uninformed and clueless as we Americans. They voted for Brexit without really understanding the consequences and the far reaching negative effects of isssues relating to such. Much like those who voted for Trump. My sympathies are with the people of Northern Ireland who now have to deal with something they did not approve. There was indeed a time I felt the Brits were very logical and pragmatic nation. Fooled me!!!
21
@Hugh when you say "Brits" you may think you're including folks who say contrary, as in some of the Irish speaking peoples.
2
@Hugh Are you against Italian and Greek anti EU voters? What about Swiss and Norwegians?
From this side of the pond, it looks like the Brits walked into the EU roach Motel.
You can walk in, but you can’t walk out.
Why not hold a second referendum. ?
6
@New World, sure they can walk out. All they have to do is wait a fortnight.
2
I will never understand why any country or state would have a referendum process. People are dopey, uninformed and emotional. The average person doesn't have the intellect to grasp nuance, let alone abstract issues with complex variables, especially if they only have a passing familiarity with them. This isn't ancient Athens. Western nations have republican forms of government for a reason. You hire a lawyer, accountant or physician for their expertise and fire them when they don't meet your needs. People should vote or not vote for their representatives with a similar mindset. In 1992, Ross Perot proposed a version of direct democracy and it was rejected along with the rest of his kooky platform. Direct democracy was nutty then and its nutty now and can cause intractable problems.
63
@MJG - I would like to know this commenter's view of the Electoral College...
3
The Electoral College was designed to protect slave owning states. It should be abolished. Medium and small sized states have the Senate to level the legislative playing field and make sure their interests are adequately represented. Presidents represent the people as a whole,not states, and should be elected by a straight popular vote.
22
@MJG No Parliamentary democracy that I know directly elects its Prime Minister...one votes for one's local rep and the party that has the most reps gets to govern (or has to make a coalition to get a majority) and then THE LEADER of that party gets to be PM. Is this so different that the Electoral College in USA?
1
Theresa May has suffered what amounts to a vote of "no confidence." She really has little choice, but to follow her predecessor David Cameron out the door of 10 Downing Street. As she exits she can call for a new election and/or a second referendum on Brexit--stay or leave with no deal. Given that both political parties have been unable to decide on Brexit, a new referendum seems almost mandatory.
156
It is obvious that Brexit vote supporters were lied to about its advantages and ease of achievability.
It is equally obvious that Brexit needs to be reversed, and another referendum needs to be offered to the voters.
Brexit, if it ever comes about, will weaken America's greatest ally and hurt the EU, while it will make Putin dance with glee.
Is there something about UK politics that stops it from producing good politicians? One does have to wonder, after listening to hours of their debate.
But then, I am an American, and have Trump strutting about as our leader, and yes, there are some structural defects that allow poor human beings like him, and the Bush family, to be elected by a minority.
It is painful to see the UK suffering as it is. I wish it well.
Hugh
274
@Hugh Massengill
We are not in a position to lecture the Brits on the quality of their politicians - or voters, for that matter.
11
Brits who voted for Brexit voted for the promises (lies) on the sides of buses and were influenced by the Cambridge Analytica and Russian social media posts with the sole intent to sow division in Britain and harm the EU. Now that the British voters know the bus promises weren’t true and they realize that they had no idea what they were really voting for, there is a simple referendum that could be put back to the British voters: 1) No Brexit 2) Brexit with the deal negotiated by Theresa May and the EU or 3) Brexit without a deal. Whatever option gets the most votes wins. In the meantime, the voters know more, some of the older voters who would have never felt Brexit’s effects are gone, and there are new younger voters who have come of age and will vote for no Brexit. It is crazy that they proceed to act on such a flawed referendum that is now recognized to have offered an unreal choice.
11
I’m not sure why the blame is laid at May’s feet. She didn’t cause this situation. Cameron and Corbyn and Farage and Johnson caused it. She is trying to clean up their mess.
No one stands beside her because they’re eager for their own political gain if she fails.
169
We blame her because she has had years to resolve a problem but instead she has led us to a precipice that was visible for miles.
17
@David G., May deserves some of the blame for the situation that the UK finds itself in now. May was not responsible for the vote itself, but she freely undertook the responsibility to execute the (ill-judged) wishes of the people as reflected by the outcome.
I personally fault her for an apparently poor understanding of all the factors that affect the situation, and a steadfast refusal to learn from her mistakes and adapt to reality. The EU has no incentive to make Brexit easy for the UK - in fact, the incentive is to exact as much of a price from the UK as possible on its way out of the union to deter other defections. Yet, even as recently as the last few days, with a hard Brexit looming, May has gone, hat in hand, to Strasbourg to seek more concessions from the EU.
Why should they give her any more concessions?
For two-and-a-half years, May has been trying to play the hand she wants, not the hand she has. Whose fault is that, if not her own?
32
Corbyn certainly hasn’t caused it. Brexit is 100% Tory-owned, from anachronistic utopian fantasy through to Cameron’s calamitous error right down to May’s negotiation and her inability to forge a national consensus. The idea of the Tory Party unilaterally deciding what the UK looks like for generations chills a great many of us to the bone.
Corbyn certainly hasn’t helped, his conspicuous absence in the referendum campaign, his dithering, his shambolic divided party and his lack of resolution have not been great triumphs believe me. But he didn’t cause the referendum. I don’t like the man or the clique around him, but it’s unrealistic and unfair to apportion blame to him equal to that of Farage/Johnson/Cameron, the wreckers who caused this. Remember: Corbyn isn’t PM. The referendum and the EU negotiations have not been part of his job description - that’s the job of the Prime Minister who has, since 2010, been a Tory.
I wouldn’t trust a Tory Brexit as far as I could throw it. If she had reached out and formed a Parliamentary consensus of Lab, LD and even GRN, then her deal would have passed first time, the ERG & DUP would be put in their place and we would not be in this mess.
21
The UK doesn't even need another public referendum. the original vote was non-binding, but became very much binding after UK submitted their official resignation from the EU. All they need to do, before the deadline, is take it back.
70
@Eric
You make a reasonable argument. Why doesn't Parliament bring forward a vote to withdraw Article 50 and put the Brexit issue back in the hands of the MPs where it should have been in 2016 in the first place. (Cameron was either stupid or naive or callously over- confident.) The referendum was a big mistake, in my view, but I am very skeptical of direct democracy anyway, unless a country has a history of doing direct democracy well. No so, the UK, a parliamentary democracy. MPs are elected, one would imagine, to do the work of governing. So they should game up and govern, and stop the political squabbling. An entire nation is at stake here.
5
This woman needs to resign immediately! How she can show her face after her numerous blunders and mishandling of this whole sordid affair is beyond comprehension. And where is the clamor and protest marches of the British citizenry? Why so passive? Has the world learned nothing from the gilets jaunes protests in France?
6
@Juliet There was the second-biggest march ever last autumn in London, and there is another on the 23rd. One of the most successful newspapers here is The new European which began, for what was meant to be a few issues after the Referendum but has thrived.
1
Why can't England get along with European nations? They have no choice, so why not get along? They are tied to Europe.
8
@ George Why can't Americans stop telling other countries what to do?
12
George is just asking real questions.
1
@me
I am not a country. Americans can voice their opinion whenever they want to - that is why we are great.
2
What we are seeing play out in Britain today parallels the rise of Trump in the US. Both Brexit and Trump's "win" was predicated on lies to the people. Lies propagated by a small minority of influential people that stood to gain substantially at the expense of rank and file working class people. If democracy was really the goal, then the PM would call for another referendum vote in Britain. Similarly, the GOP in the US would begin to hold Trump accountable for the lying and the terrible decisions chipping away at all of our institutions. I hope Mrs. May and Donald Trump disappear from politics before two great nations are ruined.
37
@Steven
Lies aided and abetted by Vlad The Impaler chuckling with glee in the Kremlin.
2
It is interesting that the Prime Minister goes to Parliament over and over again to ask whether they will agree to her Brexit deal, but she insists that going back to the people a second time with a new EU referendum violates some imaginary democratic principle.
54
Like Trump's election, Brexit was based on lies. Promises were made that were simply unkeepable. Mrs. May took on an impossible job and is being unfairly excoriated for not being able to do it in spite of a game attempt. Let's hope at least that Mr. Trump is held accountable for his lies and his failure to deliver on ridiculously impractical promises.
48
Initially pro-EU but later on turned pro-Brexit Theresa May can't blame anyone but herself for the embarrassing situation she faces today after losing vote second time in Parliament for her Brexit deal. Not only May has failed to sense the political mood of the political class but proved to be a poor negotiator at the Brussels. Even at this late hour she can gain some ground by trying to consensual work toward preparing grounds for a second referendum which could be facilitated following the extention of the March 29 deadline for the British withdrawal from the EU. But this will require the EU nod which is perhaps still possible.
6
She was given an impossible job which nobody else wanted and nobody had an answer for; how can you say that she failed? Others failed her.
61
Agreed an impossible job. Referendum was no landslide so she was given a goal without a mandate. Eurosceptics feel they must out do one another in their jingoistic celebration of UK without EU but lack the votes to make it so. Article favors personalities over actual forces at play and leaves us arguing about the same.
6
May wasn’t ‘given’ any job - she signed up for it herself. She is championing a position that she herself knows is wrong, one that can’t pass in Parliament and one that has no base of public support. She is an abysmal failure of a leader.
2
British Prime Minister May is adept at repeatedly doing the wrong thing, and being surprised her efforts fail. It’s obvious Great Britain needs a “do over” referendum on BREXIT. The first one was marred by massive amounts of disinformation, Russian meddling, and apathy. There is no good way to BREXIT, so it’s time to conduct another referendum, which the sane “Remain” vote will prevail.
Fix your mistake folks!
59
just a question: how is a quote from a politician regarding his opinion considered "unprintable"? Seems the one place I wouldn't mind seeing profanity on the internet is in a news report quoting that profanity for reasons important to the story.
Maybe it doesn't add much to the story, but I think it does clarify a little exactly his feelings on a topic.
18
@Ami
Not so much unprintable as incomprehensible - outside GB and the British Commonwealth.
It's wasn't even particularly profane, just a common and derogatory term for parts of the male reproductive apparatus. The sort of thing you can *just* about say in a work meeting with ladies present.
2
Britain is the greatest country in Europe. Britain was foolish to limit its power and authority according to thebdictates of Brussels. After Britain pulls out I give the E.U. twenty years before it is gone. Look at Italy, Portugal, Poland, Hungary and Greece. These countries will leave and if they are smart enough to coordinate their exits they can suffer less than Britain.
5
@Matthew By what measure? The countries consistently rated the happiest places to live are the Nordic countries -- also part of the EU. Their education system is superb, as is their social welfare nets -- but you don't even mention their achievements in your posting. By comparison, welfare services are cut drastically in England, and there is marked suffering.
78
@Matthew
With Russia under Putin becoming very hostile, many of the small EU countries feel that, however limited in cohesion, the EU stands for a level of resist against the Eastern bear, that they cannot themselves put up. With the US under Trump, any 'help' from their Western Ally is very much in doubt.
So these are not just economic matters, or matters of
national pride, but of security.
33
@Matthew I have lived in Brussels amoung other places, can you please enlighten me on the dictates that it issues. Do you mean the curve of bananas or the Passport coler dictate, niether of which actually exist. And short of sending in the British Navy, ala the opium wars, Scotish farmers are still going to have to produce and have slaughtered lamb according to the EU rules if they want to ship it to France, unless of course the UK has the right to dictate to Frane and Germany what they must accept.
8
Sounds to me as though Britain’s Parliament has chosen a “no-deal” Brexit, but refuses to admit it to themselves. Once the consequences occur, the trend toward autocracy will gain steam.
2
Not at all. Quite the contrary as the vote in parliament on accepting a "no-deal" Brexit should prove.
@John M
A No Deal is what they want. For those who want out of the EU. The rest, the no Brexiters have nothing to win with a soft landing. All they hope for is a new referendum. The UK is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
After the No Deal separation the country will go back to reality. What it will entail is no one's guess. Years of chaos but they will come out of it.
@Petras
I thought the referendum was/is non-binding. I understood that a vote in Parliament is what would be necessary to stop Brexit. The issue with that was what was the exit was not well defined. Now it is. The vote will be hard exit or stay.
2
I agree raspy was used way too often. Please turn the page, more info on the process and what is next. How likely is the re-vote to stay and return to being the leader that not just the EU needs, but the US and World needs? I optimistically look at the removal of Scott Walker here in Wisconsin, the reversal of balance in the Senate and now this sobering up in Britain as the beginning of the end to this little xenophobia tantrum our older demographic ignited in the election of 2018. Light at the end of the chunnel!
14
I admire this woman’s devotion so much it makes me want to cry. Why can’t we have someone like that?
8
We have. The South is littered with monuments to Americans who gave their full devotion to a thoroughly futile cause.
Some of them, thankfully, are now coming down.
The UK is learning today that May's "crash out" plan includes eliminating nearly all the protective tariffs against non-EU imports, but more significantly for the DUP is that Northern Ireland would be exempted from the new EU tariffs and that imports over the Irish bound for the UK would be checked via the Irish Sea ports of entry: what was a "red line" for the Negotiated Deal is apparently not a red line for No Deal.
(Of course this is supposed to be via invisible compliance rules not physical inspection - absence of which effectively turns Northern Ireland into a Chinese-style "Special Enterprise Zone" with relaxed immigration and customs status. That's a status Scotland and the City of London both will want for themselves, my bet.)
1
Theresa May and her Conservative Party made a gambit, got some help from Putin, and now have the mess that Putin wanted. How she made her bed is how she is sleeping in it.
13
Theresa May and her party did the best they could with the absolute disaster that the opposition and the voters have caused. It's beginning to look as if people, even in supposedly civilized countries, cannot be trusted to tell truth from fiction, emotional appeal from rational argument. It is reprehensible to blame May for attempting to mitigate the damage caused by the most foolish in her country. We have not yet seen a similar catastrophe caused by Trump, but I'm afraid it's coming.
It seems that the world is determined the shed the troublesome notions of democracy, and slip back into jungle rules. Remember what happened the last time that occurred in the 40's? It took decades just to rebuild Europe, and it never really recovered.
40
@Clearheaded
David Cameron was the idiot who called for the referendum and he is from the same party as May. She campaigned against leave and is not stuck trying to fix the mess he helped create.
1
Russia has been interfering in elections in post-Soviet states since the early 90's (we could learn a thing or two from those countries that have been defending themselves from Putin).
Putin branched out five years ago and began messing with Europe and now the U.S. Putin's hand, we now know, was in the original Brexit vote.
Russia's nudge toward Brexit has borne its terrible fruit. Out of respect for an electoral process that was tainted, the UK seems unwilling to call a Mulligan on the vote. What an utter mess.
We need to stop fighting the last war. Time to realize that Russia has been waging all-out war on democracies near and far. And they are getting good at it.
The Russian electoral process is so corrupt as to be immune from any counterattack on our part. We need to figure out how to immunize all democracies from Russian attacks or find a way to hit back that will be a deterrent that doesn't escalate in to a shooting war.
No easy task.
143
The writing has been on the wall all along: a second referendum is absolutely what's needed now.
37
Is it just me, or does this account spend an awful lot of time describing May’s tired, wretched, raspy voice and demeanor? I think we all get that her efforts failed, and that her political future is mst likely ruined. But would a male PM is a similar position be subject to a physical description of his woes, with only a passing reference to the looming catastrophe of what’s next for Brexit Britain?
I’ll admit to hardly understanding the details upon which PM May staked her policies. Nor do I fully grasp how a fellow Tory could stand up in Commons and throw his colleague so fully under the proverbial double-decker bus. Yet it isn’t at all hard to see that she has put incredible personal and political effort into trying to head off a monumental national cataclysm, and in fact is still standing.
This portrayal is one of a woman beaten down and on her last legs physically and emotionally. We’ve heard that before, have we not, concerning other women in public office? It has come to be the default description of women’s physical and emotional state at crunch time.
114
@PaulB67: I didn’t get that at all. What I got was a leader showing courage in the face of impossible odds and the heavy toll it has taken. Methinks you protest too much.
22
A male leader has never suffered such humiliating losses and defections from his own party. She deserves the adjectives being attached to her due to the profoundly historic weakness of her Prime Ministership.
6
@PaulB67
I don't think i read this the same way as you. The article is very clear about the state of the UK vis-a-vis Brexit. The raspy voice was a small part of the article.
8