Not even sure where to begin here. As many commenters have already stated, two words, Al Franken...yes, I wanted him to have due process and yes, not removed from office!
Next, can we all just take a collective deep meaningful breath and remember there are women and men, who have experienced serious sexual harassment, and hostile transgressions in the work place. I get that what the co worker said was mean and insensitive, really not cool, but not on par with the definition of harassment and aggression.
Please people, we water this issue down every time we lump everything into the same degree of offense! Next time someone says something stupid and insensitive in your presences, at work, rest, or play, strap on a back bone and tell them, #notcool!
32
Perhaps the initial response to the investigation was appropriate in that the driver was demoted, reprimanded, and warned. I cannot say and neither can anyone else who did not work in Gillbrand's office. My problem is two fold: (1) It sounds as though the complainant did not get the support she needed and (2) Gillibrand was unconcerned that Franken was being forced out without the benefit of an investigation.
30
While I like her and her positions, she would do herself a favor and wind down her nascent campaign. Like John Edwards before her, the almost singular thing that Americans of all political ilks can't tolerate is hypocrisy. Starting with (details be damned) her perceived about-face with the Clintons, soliciting support then throwing Bill under the #MeToo bus, then the same lynch mob mentality towards Al Franken, only to slow walk an investigation regarding one of HER favored staffers, it's hard to see her recover. All made even worse by taking definitive action only AFTER revealed by Politico; trying to wordsmith her way through justifying the timing and "appropriateness" of the decisions was not only insulting to the general public, but pathetic. And no one wants a pathetic president. We've tried that one currently. There are better options.
2
She was not concerned that Al Franken's immature behavior would taint the Senate. She just wanted to eliminate him as a rival to her own ambitions. And she was right: Al Franken would have made a stronger candidate and better president.
5
Be careful that we do not descend into McCarthyism here....people are innocent until there is cause to dismiss them. It is reasonable to believe that Gillibrand, having positioned herself as a staunch defender of the #metoo movement, would have dismissed an aide if there was any cause to do so. she is not dumb or tone-deaf. When people are guilty simply because someone accuses them of something, we are all in trouble.
When a second (hopefully substantiated) complaint was later received, swift action was taken.
Where is the issue here? I'm not a fan of hers, seeing her as shallow and opportunistic, but there needs to be a reason to drag down a public servant. From what info is available, this is not it.
2
Gillibrand has assumed the role of Grand Inquisitor, guilty until proven innocent.
2
One might almost think her back-stabbing of Al Franken was a cynical move against a vastly superior presidential possibility more than any expression of principles. This senator has done our country a grave disservice.
7
Gillibrand has failed her own Al Franken test.....time to go.
3
The junior Senator from New York can kIss goodbye to her uninspired, rocky, faltering presidential run
The Senator’s hypocrisy on this matter will put the final nail in her proverbial White House ambition. There was scant enthusiasm for her run prior to this revelation. And those who presumably know her best, the New York State congressional delegation, all withheld early endorsements.
The field of Democratic presidential contenders - both announced and anticipated - is spectacularly rich. Her presence and hypocrisy will not be missed.
3
Me Gillibrand is a fake and a true politician in the negative sense. She was given a Senate seat when Hillary Clinton became Secretary of State. This fiasco is a great example of what a fake she really is. Good job Times on getting on this one!
3
Please take it from a lawyer who has handled hundreds of discrimination and harassment cases: "inappropriate" and "unprofessional" are not synonyms of "harassment."
You haven’t been following the MeToo movement. “The Times they are a changing”.
2
Kirsten Gillibrand holds Hillary Clinton’s old seat in the senate. She also holds Clinton’s cynical, self-serving ethos (Gillibrand was a second amendment supporter until she wasn’t to name a small one). Moreover, if through some horrible misjudgment on the part of Democratic primary voters to give her the nomination, like Clinton she would lose to Trump.
Personally I loathe Kirsten Gillibrand. The reason why is summed up in two words: Al Franken. How much do I despise her? Enough to actually take the trouble to vote from abroad and cast a vote for Trump.
Why the good voters of New York support this self serving showboat of a senator is baffling.
4
She, who declared that the future is female, and who invited the Columbia University mattress lady to the SOTU, is running for President? Who was a blue dog Democrat until it suited her ambition better to declare herself intersectional and take down Al Franken?
As a Republican and sometimes Trump supporter, my sweetest dream is that she gets the nomination.
1
Well, that does it. Everyone at the Gillibrand organization, including the Senator herself, must resign. No hearing, no opportunity to respond, no sworn witnesses. Just everyone has to resign.
That is the Senator's standard of Due Process in such cases.
8
I know a federal employee who wrote to her office about a male supervisor. She had followed all the rules in reporting, and no one ever showed up to investigate her complaint. Gillibrand's office didn't even respond. Gillibrand's interest is entirely self centered. If she isn't interested in protecting federal employees, she isn't interested in America, other than how it will serve her own purposes.
3
Well, this leaves me with nothing to judge Gillibrand's behavior on. except that I think she should've taken an equally circumspect approach before publicly judging Sen. Franken unfit for office without a full investigation.
There are, in many corporations and certainly in government jobs, protocols for handling reports of inappropriate behavior and they generally do not start with firing someone. Inappropriate behavior can include more than sexual harassment, obviously.
I lack any gut sense of what went on in that organization that so distressed a staffer that she quit. In reading reports today, it seems that what is reported as harassment can range from "micro aggressions" to the most terrible physical and online intrusions, so it would help to spell it out. Unwanted advances? Exactly what?
7
Just imagine what we could have had, President Franken. I believe he would have been the best thing since FDR.
10
@Paulie - fortunately, for all of us, Franken is still pretty young. Stay tuned...
The only thing that can reelect Trump are the Democrats. Unfortunately, they seem to be doing an excellent job of just that, inasmuch as it appears the only thing the Democrats currently excel at is the art of the Circular Firing Squad, Gillibrand functioning as self-appointed Captain, though she clearly has many challengers for the honor.
8
Ms. Giilibrand showed her true colors when she bullied Al Franken out of office during a Republican administration. I could not bring myself to vote for her last election day here in NY and I would never want her to be president--the current power hungry adversarial tyrant occupying the White House is more than enough. I hope she drops out soon.
19
Gillibrand at SASC hearing on March 6, railing against the military: "My office routinely receives information from a variety of sources about the military's failure to appropriately address sexual assault and other sexual misconduct... All too often, we hear from survivors that they're the ones who are punished when they report sexual assaults. We hear from survivors that they're retaliated against sometimes by the chain of command, sometimes by their peers."
Also Gillibrand, when it's her office: It was a "misinterpretation" and a case of "he said/she said."
Please leave us alone. You have zero credibility.
14
Gillibrand is, at bottom, ruthless. She has no fixed set of principles, only what is expedient at the moment. It's quite telling that no politician in NYS has endorsed her candidacy, but it's not just the looming specter of a vindictive Andrew Cuomo, its the fact that once you've served your purpose, its under the bus you go. She did this to mentors Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer, neither being among my favorites, but its a lesson to everyone else. I'll leave Al Franken to everyone else.
8
Pardon the pun, but Ms. Gillebrand has always been an "empty dress". She was a blue dog Congresswoman in a rural upstate district who was appointed to replace Hillary Clinton after Ms. Clinton left to accept the Obama appointment. Not lost is that she somewhat physically resembled Ms. Clinton. I have never accepted her "credentials" in the Democratic Party.
While I wasn't surprised by her opportunistic behavior, her hounding Al Franken out of office was the icing on the cake for me.
The fact that she considers herself a viable candidate for President is mind boggling.
19
Sorry to have been busy today---I just now got to this story, and am very glad to see that Gillibrand is having this trouble with her campaign---in light of her recent treachery to one of my heroes, one the few senators who REALLY CARED about us---Al Franken. I should like to have been one of the very FIRST to dis-congratulate her on this story, with the conclusion that 1)she should immediately quit her pathetic run for the presidency, and 2) she should PLEASE resign from the Senate, immediately, just on principle.
27
She will be remembered for one thing, and one thing only. She destroyed Al Franken.
33
It sounds to me as if the woman's complaint was handled appropriately, unless there is more to it than this. That said, like many other commenters I will not support Senator Gillibrand. You know who I might have supported? Al Franken...at least I would like to have that option.
23
Reeks of hypocrisy. The woman filing the complaint was not looking for "love" - she was looking for action to unacceptable abhorrent behavior in a professional setting. Instead she felt retaliated against, and devalued. They did not ignore the complaint - but they took a lenient "slap on the wrist" approach.
If Kirsten can't even manage this issue in her own office effectively with a handful of staffers, who is she to address it on a national scale, or tell others what to do?
14
@Ash. Do you perhaps thinks "abhorrent" might be just a tad too strong a word for what the aide's behavior? He called someone fat, he called someone ugly. OK, not very nice. Did he do this to their faces? We don't know. He said that the complainant was "into him." Wow! How is that any different from rape? No wonder she felt "devalued."
All this does little more than bring to mind Senator Gillibrand's ruthless and unforgivable treatment of Al Franken. And why I will not support her.
14
@GMG Ok, may be not abhorrent - just plain creepy and sort of disgusting....The Politico article has more details of his conduct - I believe people behave this way, when they think they can get away with it. It does not happen in a vacuum.
3
She didn't care what happened to Al Franken. She cared about how she would look. Well, right now she looks like yesterday's news. Next?
39
Zero tolerance. Gillibrand must retire from the Senate and withdraw from the Primary - by her own rules according to her own post-modern intersectionality and the standards of her feminist identity politics. Her conduct in this matter has been outrageous and deeply disturbing. She hasn't excuse or explanation - isn’t even a comedian whose business is making jokes that invoke sexual innuendo. I hope the nation can move past this outrage once she withdraws from public view.
22
Senator Gillibrand treated her staff members fairly, both the accuser and the accused: a complaint listened to, an investigation conducted, an appropriate action taken. The accuser felt snubbed, didn’t get the result she wanted, and decided to resign. Her choice.
If only Senator Gillibrand had treated Senator Franken with the same evenhanded approach she took with her own staff.
22
If she is the nominee, I will write in Warren.
21
@Zejee
If she is the nominee, I'm going to write in Al Franken.
3
was this a news article? calling someone "fat" might be impolite and bad manners, but sexual harassment? seems to me that taking the Lord's name in vain is worse. would the use of curse words require firing? if so, i wonder how many politicians should remain in congress?
3
I wonder if Senator Gillibrand even has a reflection when she looks in the mirror.
19
Can't say I'm surprised.
2
Gillibrand doesn't yet realize that an accusation is the same thing as a finding of guilt if the sexual harassment claim comes from a woman. Of course it it is a male making the accusatin, then you treat it like Amy Kobluchar doesn't ignore it.
4
Although some may suggest that this complaint was properly vetted and dealt with, the fact remains that Ms. Gillibrand was seen to smile in the aftermath of these accusations. Using her own standards of complicity and guilt, there's every reason for her to resign her office in shame at those inappropriate facial expressions when another woman was had only recently been troubled by a male co-worker.
How much longer should we tolerate this kind of crass behavior? Isn't smiling almost a form of congratulations to the offending male worker? Shame on you, Kirsten. You should retreat from public life in humiliation.
I was truly offended that the NY Times took the trouble to look into these allegations without first condemning Senator Gillibrand in the same unforgiving language she so readily used against Al Franken.
19
As they say (or should say); those who live by the snowflake, die by the snowflake.
Gillibrand didn't just throw Al Frankin under the bus, she threw herself under its wheels too. She's as phony as was Hillary, for whom I was 'forced' to vote, due to the alternative candidate.
I'd never vote for Gillibrand in a primary.
22
Gillibrand is clearly living in her own fantasy world. She started going off the rails with her vicious attack on Al Franken and now she's completely out of control.
33
Against Franken when it seemed politically expedient. Against gays when it seemed politically expedient. (Then not against gays when it was clearly better for her own advancement.) Are we done with this person yet? All posturing and little substance; whatever makes her look better at a given moment is her only calculation. Based on her own judgement of Senator Franken, now that she’s confronted with her own failure, she should resign or, at the very least, drop out of the 2020 race and not run again as a Senator. It’d be the first step toward redemption.
39
"The allegations from the former aide include claims that Mr. Malik called a woman fat, called someone ugly, rated women's appearances and said that a woman working at the Senate as an intern was 'into him.'"
Sounds like the behavior of the current occupant of the White House. Maybe Mr Malik should run for President instead of driving presidential hopefuls.
5
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
14
What makes her a prime candidate for president? What she did to Senator Franken?
21
Nothing surprising here. When she was in the House of Reps, Kirsten Gillibrand was a conservative Democrat, a member in good standing of the Blue Dog Democrats, a darling of the NRA and a buddy of Senator Al D'Amato (a good friend of her lobbyist Dad). Now that she's running for President she's anti-gun, has a perfect liberal record and led a lynch mob against a Senator who actually seemed to have real principles.
40
It seems to me that Gillibrand has created her own Frankenstein.
24
I really, really think Gillibrand is a horrible person for how she mistreated Al Franken. Sen. Franken was humiliated by a Right-wing smear campaign led by a former Fox News bimbo and Playboy Playmate and friend of Sean Hannity. Franhen, a superb senator from MN, was accused of sexual misconduct when he was a comedian on a USO tour in Iraq. But, as it turns out, he did nothing wrong. But Gillibrand labeled him a sexual predator and got all the women to go along and not only ruin his career in the Senate, but took away a strong voice for ethics in government. Gillibrand is a fool! She allowed a Right-wing hit-job to affect her judgement.
59
Gillibrand did a lot of damage to Al Franken but in the long run damaged herself even more ; ironic that the reason she demanded he resign has come back to haunt her . If she still stands for zero tolerance she should follow her standard and also resign from the Senate . Ambition will get you everywhere you choose to go but , one should watch how you get there . By taking ( a rightful stance ) against sexual harassment and misogyny she should have taken special care with her staff and it's reflection on her and her supposed beliefs . She has been proved the hypocrite .
22
Yeah, once Gillibrand found out that Politico was investigating and might just publish an unflatering story decided to cut bait. Couldn't have a Presidential candidate whose whole reputation as a champion of women's dignity be seen as uncaring. Oh, well.
10
By her "zero tolerance" standards, shouldn't Kirsten be calling for her own resignation?
24
Looks like Senator Franken is Not. Going. Away.
In fact, he may be more influential in Democratic party politics than ever before.
20
Gillibrand is a one-trick-pony, who has in some ways done more harm to women's status as level headed thinkers than good.
In her infamous statement. “Enough is enough” in reference to Senator Al Franken. Ms. Gillibrand demonstrated not a mind capable of balancing levels and degrees of bad vs. criminal behavior or the capacity to understand that behaviorally the first can be encouraged to change while the second is truly bad and/or dangerous and belongs in a criminal court system.
She’s uses cliches like “What do I tell my son” instead of desiring a deeper understanding of human nature that might inform Ms. Gillibrand how to understand and better work with those behaviors she clearly doesn’t comprehend or know how to work with now. And by the way, Ms. Gillibrand that's where the conversation can begin with your son.
18
I wish she would just leave the race.
25
So NOW she fires him? She couldn't make the effort to do a full, thorough investigation at the time of the staffer's complaint of harassment? Was the man too much of an asset to Gillibrand that she didn't want to lose him?
Me Too? Me Thinks...that Kirsten needs to be a bit less "talk the talk" and a lot more "walk the walk" when it comes to dealing with harassment.
She was so quick to condemn a fellow Senator, but so timid in ridding her office of an in-house predator.
Get it together, Senator Gillibrand! You appear to be a fraud!
16
"One senior staff member commented to her that Mr. Malik could have been fired for “a number of reasons but isn’t going to."
Anyone who has a "number of reasons" against them to be fired most definitely ought to be fired.
Is that how Senator Gillibrand would run her administration? It's very Clown-like.
4
When Senator Gillibrand threw Al Franken under the bus, she lost the allegiance and support of many, many Democratic Party voters. It seemed not only precipitous, but self-serving, more like a career move than a principled stand.
Doubtless Sen. Gillibrand has many accomplishments she can point to, but her defining moment was to destroy the career of one of the most effective progressive political advocates within her own party. Her seat in the Senate may be safe, but her path to the White House is quite steep.
45
Can't get elected to the Senate so hey why not run for president. Hello anybody home?
3
Kirsten Gillibrand is pretty and smart, but she's a little too wimpy for my taste. She's the person who asks whether she may eat with her hands or use a fork. Give me Klobachar who pulls a comb out of her purse when she has no utensils and then makes her assistant wash it. I'm not kidding!
3
It seems strange that a Senator that has no problem calling people racist, homophobic, xenophobic, and other hateful names, finds fat, ugly, or a 7 different in a distinguishable way.
5
All of Gillibrand's posturing hypocrisy has come back to bite her. In a perfect world she should take a page from Al Franken's book and resign. Too bad she won't. We could replace her with Al Franken if Mr. Franken would move to NYS.
32
The more people learn about Ms. Gillibrand, the less likely they are to vote for her.
26
One word (okay, two) Al Franken.
Karma is a .......what's the word I'm looking for.....?
34
Now YOU must resign, Gillibrand, according to your logic of court of public opinion litigation. It’s the only honorable thing you can do, again, according to your own standards.
38
I've heard that Gillibrand spearheaded Al Franken's exit from the Senate, not because she thought his bad behavior was deserving of anything more than censure, but because she saw a way to remove a potential 2020 rival. Even if that's only partially true, her own exit from the race (and possibly re-election to the senate) would seem righteous payback for looking the other way when a member of her staff sexually harasses a young staffer. Back to the upstate sticks and oblivion, Kirsten.
20
I can't believe so many people are holding a grudge over Al Franken. Franken was a bum, he deserved to go.
2
maybe its time to start believing.
Franken was the needless sacrficial lamb which still irks most Democrats.
8
Nothing in his career justifies his being called a bum. The charges were thin and dwarfed by those against others.
16
@Ian I would say sexually harassing women makes him a bum.
1
The problem with the attitude of righteousness and take no prisoners is that no one is perfect. If every last thought, spoken comment and action of everyone running for the Democratic nomination is carefully parsed, no one will pass muster. With no opponent, Trump will win by default.
4
She also lost the votes of many women because of Al Franken. I called all of her offices and emailed her in the days before she and her fellow senators forced Al Franken to resign. I pleaded, I wrote - nothing. We did not want Franken to resign. He was an intellectual warrior for the good of our country. It was a travesty. (I also called and emailed the other women senators involved in this and again, nothing.)
29
I love the teaser end. Whatever he initially did didn’t rise to the level of a terminable offense, but then he did something, but we aren’t told what and thus have nothing to compare it to.
5
As leader of the lynch mob that went after Franken, it seems Gillibrand should have higher standards for herself -- and not react with a siege mentality that bespeaks guilt when her own misdeeds bubble up. My Spidey sense tells me this is the first salvo in a long and painful series of revelations that will doom Senator Smug's candidacy. File under: Serves Her Right.
19
I think that Rod Serling tried in vain to warn us against this sort of thing in at least a half-dozen Twilight Zone episodes. In any event, let this be an object lesson for all folks who take a shoot-'em-all-and-let-God-sort-'em-out approach to dealing with any alleged transgression.
6
I'm an American expat who lived for years in Minnesota. I'll admit that I didn't and don't like Gillibrand after what she did to the most effective anti-Trump Senator, Al Franken. Now, I positively can't stand her. It's a hassle to send in absentee ballots, mine being for the last state I live in, Florida. If she manages to get the nomination, I won't bother. When I read she was an abusive boss I wasn't surprised. Now it's clear she's also a pious hypocrite. Fit for the Presidency? She's not fit for any role in government.
19
Poorly written sentence that changes the meaning entirely.
“she describes frustration over the office’s response to allegations of harassment and intimidation against the co-worker, Abbas Malik, a former special assistant to the New York senator.”
It's definitely not “allegations of harassment and intimidation *against* the co-worker”, but “*BY* the co-worker”!
Otherwise, it reads as if she were reporting on behalf of a co-worker.
2
It sounds as though her office handled the charges appropriately by investigating, rescinding a promotion and warning the guy. If the actions were not legally sexual harassment- and there are legal standards for proving harassment- then firing him was not required or appropriate.
What people are furious about, and they should be, is the way that Gillibrand treatednApnFranken. He was not given due process, but was bullied into leaving office. Nobody wanted him to leave except Gillibrand. She organized the hit squad.
It’s too bad that Kirsten Gillibrand was unwilling to give Al Franken the same due process that she rightly afforded an employee.
I will not vote for her.
318
@RCT. Re Al Franken: Precisely. Nor will I vote for her.
44
@RCT I won't vote for her, either -- nor for the liberal poseur Kamala Harris, whose tenure as a prosecutor held winning is more important than justice. Refusing to allow DNA that proves a defendant's innocence? Shame on you!
What a surprise that female candidates' closets are full of skeletons, just like the boys.'
21
@RCT: Well, if that's true, then unless the "new information" is damning, this story is about Gillibrand's office caving to pressure and throwing Mr. Malik under the bus because people didn't like the way they handled the charges the first time around.
9
We need to get some better balance in our prioritizing of issues on political candidates. Sexual harrassment is very important and it is good to call people on not enforcing choice of aides. On the other hand, we let some less central matters control our decisions on who should be our leaders. Elizabeth Warren is clearly well out of the range of other candidates in analyzing and speaking out about issues critical to US self governance. Yet most news articles about her go out of their way to ding her as an affirmative action striver. This is not all Trump, there seems some basis to it, but emphasizing that she needs to work on this, without rejecting Warren seems critical. I have often heard the comment that Warren is ideal, but we cannot take her candidacy too seriously because some people will avoid her because of relatively trivial claims of her being a native American. We need to choose the best people and if necessary stress to them that they should also work on what we see as their flaws. Gillibrand's past history of tolerating a sexual offender is important but orthogonal to whether we want her as our leader.
14
@WHM
Warren is busily digging her own political grave with no help from Trump.
3
This was less of a news article about the harassment and negligence of Gillibrand than a political advertisement for her. I do not want to say that the article does not contain facts but it says so may positive things about the candidate that it feels like an ad approved by the candidate. Lets hear about the comb and how the aid felt as she washed the Italian dressing from the bristles.
11
@Mark The comb story belongs to Klobuchar.
11
@Mark
The comb thing was Amy Klobuchar, not Kirsten Gillibrand.
10
Different candidate - Amy Klobuchar allegedly was the candidate who ate her salad with a comb and then made her staffer wash it.
10
What a tempest in a teacup. Women seem to be very confused about how to deal with sexual approaches from men.
Kirsten Gillibrand and her staff followed proper procedures and disciplned the man about whom the complaint was filed.
I think this sounds like a mountain in a molehill. Such over-reaction invites every non-entity staffer to have a Big Story.
Perhaps the new rule in the office is that all dating is forbidden, and that any one wishing to instigate dating should get jobs elsewhere first.
It's a fact that you are most likely to date single, available members of whatever sex you prefer whom you know or meet. These are often people whom you meet at your job or in your work orgaization.
There seems to be chronic over-reaction to these approaches. Complainers don't think their cases are adequately dealt with. Many like this young woman expect that the person they complain about will automatically be fired, which is hardly a fair or even legal assumption.
I think the rule should be no dating or appoaches. If you want to date someone in your organization, find another job and then ask him/her.
21
@BSmith
Yes -- and I want that blouse buttoned all the way to the neck, missy!
5
If the woman who made the complaint wasn’t sati with any part of the response, then the response was wrong. What is so hard to understand about that. Women get to individually set their own bar for what is and isn’t tolerated, when, where and by whom. Likewise, they must be satisfied with the response of their employers, coworkers, social media, neighbors and society. Not long ago, I held the door for a woman’s who was about three paces behind me as I exited an office building just before 5 pm. She became apoplectic about the act. Frankly, I would have done the same for anyone headed toward the door I was passing through. But it offended her and she took offense and responded as she has a right to do. Her response could have been anything from a thank you to embarrassing me. It was her call.
1
@From Where I Sit
I don't really know where you sit but I still stand for politeness.
3
Read the story in Politico. It is absolutely infuriating.
That Gillibrand allowed this textbook case of sexual harassment against a young female staffer to go on unpunished disqualifies her from the Presidency. And the Senate.
28
If someone is repeatedly insubordinate, that's enough reason to fire him. If he's a jerk who makes the office environment unpleasant, that is reason to fire him. If you don't care, or are worried about the optics of firing a veteran, it is your bad.
12
Ms. Gillibrand is learning what goes around comes around.
48
It's good to see that there are a heck of lot of folks besides myself who remember Al Franken.
102
Gillibrand ruined a good man who could have been America’s next president (Franken) while letting a predator harass a woman, under her nose.
Gillibrand should not waste another hour or dollar on her presidential fiasco.
77
It is absolutely astounding to me seeing the vigorous defense of Al Franken by the people absolutely OUTRAGED at Donald Trump's behavior towards women. Remember that EIGHT separate women came forward accusing him of groping and kissing them without consent. And who are the liberals mad at? Kerstin Gillibrand!
Makes perfect sense. WOW.
3
@Mike
KB couldn't even wait for a senate investigation into the Franken allegations. She needed a rival out of the way, immediately. Curiously, her office conducted an investigation in her office matter. That's what's frustrating.
9
The groping accusations were minor to the point of ridiculousness. Where his hand landed in a group photo? A scripted moment in a comedy sketch? There is no indication that he sexually harassed or assaulted anyone. He is not and never was a sexist.
12
Liberal minded people have two years to fix what has become a Wild West type atmosphere. There are very few rules. And those that exist are always changing. We don't know which incident, which character trait, which misstep, which genealogy, etc. will become disqualifying for each of these Presidential candidates. These are all glass-house dwellers hanging out in a field full of stones. Let's be clear. The candidate who is appropriately diverse, who has never offended anyone, who has never had anyone on their staff offend anyone? This candidate does not exist. It's not possible. As the field narrows, organizations will grow and staffs will be multiplied. There will be people on every campaign doing or saying something that upsets someone. Or, in this environment, all we need is a Russian bot to tweet that someone said or did something offensive. We cannot live this way. We will not find a candidate this way. And we will re-elect Trump this way.
Gillebrand has a chance to defuse this somewhat. Imagine if she were to walk back her rallying cry of "believe all women" and instead took the opportunity to lead us in a direction that approaches these cases will open minds and reasonable expectations. Unlikely. But it's the only hope.
4
This is the Senator who started the major attack against Senator Al Franken. She was the first to call for his resignation, and singlehandedly rounded up other female Senators to oust him. Of all the folks who have gotten caught up in MeToo, Franken was the least deserving of scorn. We lost a fine legislator to the alter of her career. What fine Karma to see her eat gravel.
53
This senator belongs in the trash heap of history. She is an opportunist person with barely any morals, jumping on the cool new wagon for her own personal advancement. Dump her, and her deservedly unloved candidacy. It would be wonderful to have her primaried in 2020. AOC, if you are listening, please do primary this senator from your state.
41
How can anybody with a name like Abbas Malik be convicted of anything in this political climate
4
“What goes around comes around”
Enough said.
19
There's some justice in the world. We can do better than the tobacco lawyer who knifed Al Franken. He was the real deal.
54
Oh the irony of that photo!
I cannot be the only one who captured the backdrop to Ms. Gillibrand's head, reminiscent of some iconic Madonna artistry.
Or not...
7
Anyone who still thinks Gillibrand is authentic, should attend her town halls. I attended one last year in Manhattan. It was a love fest between her and her fans. The audience seemed to have been pre-selected, as were the question. The lone guy who dared ask a question she didn't like, was booted out for not getting with the game. The whole thing was a farce.
Seriously, if this is democracy in America, then Iran where I was born is not too far behind.
23
When your entire political career is linked to one issue you better uphold the principles of that issue. She's a lightweight and a fraud.
34
I want to vote for female candidates, but I will not support them if they don't walk their talk (Gillibrand) or if they tell staffers to do things such as clean their lunch-combs. I hold women to the same standards as male politicians. Have some integrity and be consistent. Treat people well and with respect. Obama is a good example of this.
8
I consider myself to be a liberal and a feminist. But after what she did under the guise of #MeToo to railroad a very talented fellow Democrat without even the veneer of due process, I will:
1) Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, never, ever cast a vote for Kristen Gillibrand and
2) If he were ever to run for high office again, I would happily donate to an Al Franken congressional or senatorial campaign.
59
@Annabelle
#metoo
I would donate $$ to get Al Franken back in the Senate in a heartbeat.
The story is troubling -- and I'm no big Gillibrand fan -- but equally troubling are the number of comments talking about how MeToo is a witch hunt and what goes around comes around for Gillibrand.
The victim complex in some men, when they watch other men get called to account for really basic bad behavior (that they know perfectly well is bad behavior) is hard to stomach. Is there really a man who hasn't been aware -- since 1990 or later -- that he shouldn't pretend to grope a woman's breast or make personal remarks about wanting to sleep with women in a work context? Are these men just innocent souls who had no idea that such a thing as harassment existed? These are big boys. Give them credit for knowing exactly how sleazy they were behaving. They just thought they could get away with it.
5
The termination of the aide in question brings up a few questions:
1) Will females be terminated for commentng on male appearences?
2) If a female relates that someone finds her attractive, will she be fired?
3) What exactly are the new rules for behavior in the workplace and can someone please put them in writing?
10
1) Not the same. Not by a long shot. Women don’t have the power for it to be an issue and men don’t get to individually set their own standards. 2) The height of misogyny, Ron. 3) Keep your hands, eyes, mouth, thoughts and attitude to yourself. The office, bars, restaurants, shopping malls, parks, roadways, garages and public transportation are not your “hunting” grounds. Women will let you know if and when it’s okay to look at them, say something or approach them. Anything less by males is offensive.
1
@From Where I Sit
This is the present intellectual squalor of the left. It's not classical liberalism, which focused on consistent standards of conduct for all and the supreme worth of the individual.
Your position, the contemporary version, is in love with power differences between groups, using them as an excuse for execrable behavior. Your 1) is more than irrelevant, it is a justification for criminal behavior. Of course the male should have full legal recourse against the boorish woman. Anything less would be sex discrimination.
1
Al Franken was a unique Senator, his presence was appreciated precisely at the moment the Trump presidency was revealing its coming disaster for the nation. Franken today would be an essential voice we all need to hear and he is truly missed.
Senator Gillibrand's future will always carry the weight of her hypocrisy.
36
Wow, it's incredible how this sets people off in the direction of their own biases. I agree -- Al Franken should not have quit or been made to quit. And perhaps not made to do anything til there is some notion of graduated justice here. As for the "devalued" aide and the insulting driver, there just isn't enough reported here to know what the final judgment ought to have been. So the take away is not anything about Sen. Gillibrand -- it's about you who populate this space with your own fever dreams. Pitchforks in the hands of liberals are just as dangerous as those in the hands of you-know-who.
2
Not enough reported here? The woman who complained was dissatisfied with the results. That says it all. Instead of starting “an investigation within 47 minutes”, he should have been fired in the time it takes to send him a text.
1
Gillibrand is a weak candidate. The Al Franken incident will not be forgotten. Please recall the questioning Franken gave to Niel Gorsuch in which he referred to himself as someone who used to make a living recognizing absurdities when questioning one of Gorsuch's rulings. We need people in the Senate who can recognize absurdities in government because there are a lot of them. Gillibrand has nowhere near Franken's intellectual or analytical capacities.
Trump will bash her as "Millenial Mom"
35
Whatever the contex, as if it were a Word Association Test, whenever I hear/ read the name Kirsten Gillibrand, the only thing that comes to mind is Al Franken.
116
@Ricardo I'm right there with you. I'll never forgive her for driving him out of the senate.
34
@Ricardo
Agree. We lost one of our smartest and best informed Senators so this woman could "enhance" her possible run for the Presidency. Even if my vote were for sale at a garage vote sale, I wouldn't sell it to her.
32
@Ricardo
Same here. Her actions then smacked of political opportunism and it will cost her in her presidential bid.
29
Can we please have Al Franken back now?
143
@R "Can we please have Al Franken back now?"
Ask Franken. He's the one who quit his post and ran away.
4
#MeToo bites the hand that feeds - Why do I get the feeling this is just the beginning. #BetterCallSaul
12
So, she was by the letter when it came to someone on her staff was accused, but not with Al Franken. She's a shameless pol with malleable values, depending on her needs at any given time.
119
I'm glad this is coming out now. I always felt she was a hypocrite after the way she treated Al Franken.
96
Men have to get with the times. The days of cheap comments, repeated macho statements, etc, are over, at least for anyone anywhere near a well known person. I understand where this guy is coming from; but that is just it, a page has turned. Every politician should have a training class with their staff about sexual misconduct; or there will be more of them shot down by the arrow of instant justice.
12
So she runs Franken out of office but mishandles a claim of sexual misconduct in her own office. And she thinks she should be President?
102
@Robert Hodge It isn't clear that she "mishandled" the matter. That is the allegation of a yet unidentified individual. We should wait for more facts. That said about this incident, I think Gillibrand was wrong in her effort to rid the Senate of Al Franken. And I think she will pay for that mistake in that her campaign will not get traction among Democratic voters.
12
1.Female aide makes complaint against male
2. Investigation promptly done in five days. Male does not receive promotion, and in fact receives demotion. Is put on notice and told he can be fired. " “A full and thorough investigation into the evidence revealed employee misconduct that, while inappropriate, did not meet the standard for sexual harassment.’’
3.Female complainant is told that she supplied alcohol to said male while on duty, and his duties were those of a driver.
4. She is also told that she can also be terminated.
These are both "at will " contracts.
5.Complainant decides that anything less than the Drivers head on a silver platter is insufficient.
6. Complainant resigns.
7.Driver fired.
for the alleged egregious crimes of "called a woman fat, called someone ugly, rated women’s appearance and said that a women working at the Senate as a fellow was “into him.”
Women in female majority staff offices never make comments about other women's appearances, or possible chemistry. Never.
After firing the two tour duty veteran, should he have been executed, or would waterboarding suffice?
Sen. Gillibrand has the ability to depress the possible democratic turnout better than a North Carolina politician.
17
@Lawrence: Do you have a source for that information?
1
@Lawrence--
I'm certainly no great fan of the #MeToo movement, nor do I believe that every woman--or man--should be uncritically believed. But even though I am hardly a young man--68 years old-- I am still socially aware enough to know that there are certain things that one does not say either TO women, or in THE COMPANY of women, ESPECIALLY IN THE WORKPLACE.
Mr. Malik apparently was not that socially conscious. And as such, he really did deserve to have his head served back up to him on a silver platter. Perhaps this harsh lesson will serve him well in his NEXT job.
And if you're not sufficiently socially aware to understand the significance of Mr. Malik's transgressions, then you, too, probably need a lesson or two regarding what's going on around you here in the 21st century.
3
@Anne--
I think that Lawrence is basing his comments on a fairly quick--and none-too-thorough--reading of the Politico article cited and linked to in the original NYT article. Also, I think that Lawrence has a fairly dim understanding as to what is appropriate conduct today between men and women in the workplace, and may even have a bit of a chip on his shoulder regarding today's women. Just a theory, mind you.
1
On the repeated reminder of Al Franken: we ALL saw the photograph of him posing for the camera miming breast-squeezing with a leering grin on his face - not a care in the world that the woman laying there was his unwitting victim. And not a care in the world that he was being photographed while he humiliated her to record her humiliation for public consumption. Would you want your business colleagues, your mother, or your kids seeing you in a photograph laying there with a leering man having a blast pretending to grope you? Unless there's some way that photograph was manipulated and his hands were not groping like he couldn't wake to squeeze her, then his departure is valid.
9
@common sense advocate
The woman was in on the joke; he didn't touch her; the photographer testified to that. Later the woman got caught up with Roger Stone and was paid to go after Franken. Now Stone is probably going to prison; his female accomplice ought to go with him. This was a disgraceful occurrence, a false charge against a man who was on his way to a combat zone to give show for free. We lost a good Senator, and ended up with a mediocrity, Gillibrand.
23
@common sense advocate She was very "witting." She wasn't unconscious for the photo. She was completely in on it and thought it would be funny for whatever reason. But seeing as how he was not a senator at the time. Didn't do anything illegal. Didn't touch anyone. Didn't do anything with anyone that wasn't a willing participant, and did so while employed by a late night, raunchy crowd. No, his departure from the senate was not valid, especially when the lead pitchfork bearer was doing it only to further her own career.
20
So Gillibrand is so high and mighty about principles that the #1 Democratic Senator Franken resigns ...
44
She's always been a fraud. She was a pro-gun conservative upstate Dem until Schumer anointed her his choice for senator, probably to keep someone more progressive from having a chance. So she tried to position herself as the "woman's candidate," and made a rival for the presidential nomination the sacrificial lamb.
47
I met this candidate last week in San Francisco and concluded that arguably she is as sharp as anyone who has held that job, the 45.
Nobody’s perfect, but I’d feel like a cloud has lifted if someone like Tina takes the Oval Office.
1
Well, I guess that's that for Gillibrand's campaign. I don't see how they get out of this one.
13
It's not as if she had much chance of winning anyway, but she probably just lost.
22
The comparative treatment of her staff and Al Franken is just teed right up for a Saturday Night Live sketch. They are great at skewering hypocrisy, and it is a delicious irony that Franken was a performer on the show.
30
@Eric J.
SNL's "Don't Be Unattractive" starring Tom Brady and Fred Armisen definitely skewered the hypocrisy of MeToo.
Gillibrand has always been a fraud.
Biggest flip-flopper there is.
Grand stander regarding assault in the Armed Forces.
Former Gov. David Patterson did New Yorkers an injustice.
Hopefully he can see clearly now.
14
@evric Are you aware that Gov. Patterson is legally blind?
2
@KKW
Oh, that may explain why he made that choice as Hillary's replacement.
@evric Lovely. I think you could disagree with an appointment without ridiculing someone who is disabled. But I guess that’s the general level of discourse to be expected these days. Thanks for improving that with your response!
This fits into a pattern for Senator Gillibrand. Let's not forget that she was for guns before she was against them.
35
Her zero tolerance policy ruled her out as a serious candidate in my opinion. What the Governor of Virginia did as while in Medical School was wrong, but he is right in saying judge me for my whole life.
13
Hung by her own petard. Maybe Senator Gillenbrand can get the mattress of the former Columbia student whose claim of rape she repeatedly championed although even Columbia's Title IX proceeding (with a lower threshold of truth--preponderance of evidence) ruled was unfounded. She never apologized to the student who was wrongly accused of rape. Now might be a good time since Senator Gillenbrand is being (wrongly?) accused of mishandling a harassment claim. This might also be a good time to reconsider a presidential bid that is going nowhere. It is also a warning for other Democrats who think they can ride a wave of identity politics into the White House. Trump is an absolute nightmare, but men (and, yes, sometimes women) and European Americans (and, yes, other Americans) behave badly, and sometimes they are wrongly accused. Do not believe people who make accusations because they make accusations. Believe people who make accusations that are borne out by evidence. There are no shortcuts for anyone, including ambitious politicians.
16
Voters should take everything Senator Gillibrand says with a grain of salt. I don't see her as qualified for higher office.
22
This completely saddens me as a person who has seen friends take a courageous stand and come forward when they, too, have been sexually harassed. In my friends' cases they, like Gillibrand's female aide, chose to leave the workplace while the harasser remained.
If a supposed "leader" of reform in dealing with sexual harassment cannot correctly and appropriately handle the situation, then what are we to do? And can we trust our leaders?
10
She lost the support of Democratic voters with her actions against Al Franken. I am surprised she believes she has any hope of being the Democratic nominee (or VP nominee). It shows either hubris or delusion - either way a disqualifier for higher office.
140
Gillibrand has tried to brand herself as the #metoo candidate.
All she has managed to do was drum a great senator - Al Franken - out of office without due process or a hearing where he could defend himself.
I'm sorry Al Franken isn't one of the Democrats who are running against Trump. Franken would have been our strongest candidate against Trump.
Now thanks to Gillibrand, Al Franken is out of commission.
I wish she would just go away.
167
I don’t think Franken’s out of commission. Not at all. I say he’s paid his “price” that the court of Gillibrand sentenced him to, and now I think he ought to get back out there and go at “trump” HARD. He would be a GREAT candidate and a GREAT president.
15
Let's forget about the Senator for a minute here; a veteran was canned for being somewhat crude with his comments. Does he really deserve to lose his job because an overly sensitive staffer was offended? Thicker skin used to be a requirement in the political arena. News flash: It's a patently offensive world these days.
15
@Mike Connors It seems to me that some quick assumptions are being made here: that he was merely "somewhat crude" and that she was "overly sensitive." There seems to be an implicit suggestion that he should be treated more gently because he's a veteran. The fact that he's a veteran has nothing to do with how he should be treated following a charge like this. (In fact, the horrible rates of sexual assault and harassment in the military indicate we need to increase awareness training among those in the armed services.)
12
@SKS He called a woman fat, called someone else ugly (presumably, behind their back) and said someone was "into him." I mean, can we handle this with a firm talking to instead of immediate firing? This is turning into an actual "witch hunt" (not the fake witch hunt as described by our lame president)
1
The only one who gets to decide how sensitive a woman should be to a given situation is the woman herself. No one else.
I haven't gone back to check, but I don't recall Al Franken's sophomoric highjinks--yes, demeaning, yes, wrong--to have exploited a power imbalance the way the abuser in Gillibrand's office did. I don't remember the charges against Franken including persistent harangue after repeated messages to stop. Gillibrand was at the helm here, presiding over persistent harassment, investigated by standards she herself finds wanting. By her own standards, she should resign from the Senate and withdraw from the presidential race. If she hadn't claimed the position as moral and legal authority on sexual harassment in the workplace, the incompetence of her office in this instance would be ho-hum, what else is new. Her own crowing from the high ground now broadcasts her hypocrisy. She's done.
59
@CS
Absolutely. She should drop out now. She could do it on The Late Show.
15
@Alis I'll second that, enthusiastically.
3
If the harasser remains on the job, and the accuser resigns, then you know you haven't handled it "appropriately."
All this over a driver, and the Senator couldn't simply walk the walk?
25
So Ms. Gillibrand had to decide between Abbas Malik and a woman. Ouch, that's a no win situation from an identity politics perspective. But I guess we never really believed she gave a darn about the women anyway. I mean, Justin Fairfax still roams the state house in VA, while Democrats move on to Trump bashing.
8
What were these "unwelcome advances?" Did he ask her on a date once and she said no? Asking her out once vs daily is a very different situation and this article left out any facts.
This woman's complaint sounds very suspect. If you want a seat at the table you need to develop a tougher skin. Mad Men style sexual harassment is completely, 100% wrong, but these type of complaints diminish real cases.
There are a lot of jerks in life and sometimes you have to work with really talented and smart jerks to get things done. If you can't handle it, maybe these people should look for different work.
Just keep in the back of your mind that this "PC" age only helps Trump in 2020.
13
@Social
Go read the Politico article--it's much more complete. The behavior of the aide, of Gillibrand, of her staff, were all appalling, and the supposed "investigation" laughable.
10
Oh, how ironic, on the non-stop merry-go-round of who can we get fired, defenestrated, withdrawn, ousted, outed, outsided, sidelined today? In this case, it will be good to get Senator Gillibrand out of this race. She’s toxic, especially after what she did to Al Franken (hence, the irony of the merry-go-round) and all that defense work for big tobacco. Though maybe we all would be better off if she refused to be driven out and recognized that the 'movement' she has sired and kindled and curried might have simply ... gone too far?
28
Gillibrand a tobacco industry lawyer in a previous life knifing of Al Franken can hardly be called advocacy for women's causes.
She was clearly removing her most potent rival for the presidency.
47
All of these liberal phonies are what a good friend of mine calls “not ready for prime time”. Ms. Gillibrand was probably too busy being outraged about Al Franken (who absolutely should have been run out of office - but again, liberals will defend him to no end).
4
She should get the same due process she afforded Al Franken.
73
> Ms. Gillibrand defended her office’s handling of the complaint. “As I have long said, when allegations are made in the workplace, we must believe women so that serious investigations can actually take place, we can learn the facts, and there can be appropriate accountability,’’
Really??? Serious investigations? Care to comment, Sen. Franken??? Go away, Kristen.
46
It's always just a matter of time before the inquisitors turn on you.
We reap what we sow, and Gillibrand should remember well what she sowed.
36
So let's see if I understand this convoluted story.
Gillibrand's office first "investigated" the female staffer's allegations of sexual harassment and misogynistic remarks made by Gillibrand's "driver" and found them to be without merit.
Then, when Politico became involved and found REAL evidence--presumably missed by Gillibrand and/or her incompetent or disinterested staff--the male "driver" or general factotum is suddenly terminated?
So where was the self-righteous Senator--a devoted supporter of the #MeToo movement, as I understand it-- through all of this?
Too busy with her Presidential aspirations to care what, exactly, was going on under her very nose? Too busy changing her "narrative" from being a conservative, small-beer, "upstate" New York U.S. Representative to a cosmopolitan New York Senator ready for the big leagues? Meaning, the Presidency?
Oh puhleeze! Just another Democratic fraud.
6
She's toast, never had a chance so really a non issue.
32
Zero tolerance for Franken, zero interest in looking into sexual misconduct in her own staff. We need to fund other women and progressives to get her out of office ASAP.
53
Our justice system is designed to protect the rights of the accused, in order to ensure that no one is punished for crimes they did not commit.
While this is not a criminal trial, that mentality is one of the foundations of what makes our country unique. (Of course the system is not perfect, but the principle is there)
Consequently, this is a valid criticism of the #metoo movement. Accusations cannot be everything. Proof of misconduct should be required.
Yes, women are to be believed, and we should take accusations seriously, and we need to treat victims and alleged victims with all respect and the utmost protections. We probably need to do much more for them than we already do. We also need to take the time to prove allegations, or we will run into a whole host of different problems, not the least of which is the devaluing of claims made by legitimate victims when fraudulent claims are exposed.
Being subject to anyone's feelings over proof is an impossible system to maintain.
Also- wasn't the guy fired?
Also-also, can we get a time machine and give Al Franken his job back?
116
There are two kinds of sexual harassment under the law: quid pro quo sexual harassment (where something is given or promised in exchange for sexual favors, or where it's implied that sexual favors or tolerating sexual conduct is expected in exchange for continued employment, career advancement, etc). and hostile environment sexual harassment (any sexual or gender-based conduct that creates a hostile working environment).
Rating women's appearances on a repetitive or ongoing basis could be hostile work environment harassment. I'm curious why Gillibrand's office found that it was not. I appreciate that they chose to provide the aide with coaching rather than firing him. In and of itself that's not a problem. But given Gillibrand's strong stance that Al Franken should stand down without any sort of investigation or due process is strange. For me to believe that she is a principled advocate for women's rights and the rule of law, both of which I think are important for someone who hopes to be President, I would have needed for her to call for a thorough investigation of the Franken matter. Frankly, his behavior as described is less likely to have met the legal definition of sexual harassment than her aide's conduct, so if she's going to hide behind "we had an investigation and found it wasn't sexual harassment," then she should have applied a similar standard to the Franken case.
38
I believe Sen. Gillibrand has the best chance to defeat Trump and Trumpism. I felt this four years ago, and feel she was held back by Hillary's "entitlement" to the Democratic nomination, if not the Presidency.
Our dear Sen. Harris here in California needs to control her ego. Her time my or may not come. Joe Biden is a good man, but the politics of yesteryear are over
2
@Eddie Mustafa--
"I believe Sen. Gillibrand has the best chance to defeat Trump and Trumpism."--Eddie Mustafa
Mr. Mustafa, what color is the sky where YOU live?
21
It's quite telling that Gillibrand gave Malik a free pass until this story broke and his presence raised questions about her bonafides as an advocate for women. Gillibrand's interests don't extend any further than herself, and it would not be surprising to learn that she had a hand in the recent negative news cycle about her 2020 opponent. Amy Klobuchar. It certainly worked with Al Franken.
28
Gillibrand doesn’t have a chance after what she did to Franken.
51
@Kurt: Gillibrand doesn't have a chance, period.
17
She is not fit for the office of the presidency. What I recall most about her is her holier-than-thou hounding of Senator Franken, a good decent human and an even better advocate of progressive issues, into resignation. On a scale of issues falling within the 'MeToo' range of offensive behaviour, Franken's jokes (probably in poor taste) don't even make the scale. Yet, it is was seized upon by vigilantes such as Gillibrand, with all its shrillness (yes, shrillness), to drive a person from elected office - an office he served with distinction and honour . . .
84
Sounds like Sen. Gillibrand did the right thing, investigated the allegations, took serious steps about it, and when the facts indicated it was appropriate, fired the harassing employee. Focus people, we have to beat Trump, not set Democrats to tear each other apart so that the con-man wins another term.
Which makes me wonder, again, just why these picayune complaints are being brought up about every single Democratic candidate, rather than focusing on their policy platforms. Either the press is being generally subverted by Trumpian money, or the instinct of Democrats is really to do whatever they can do to lose.
34
@Dan Stackhouse
Thank you so much for pointing out the need for focus on policy... should the NYT again focus on emails or emails or other errata and neglect policy, I'll move over to WaPo.
I don't have the stomach to watch another democrat slow roast.
5
@Dan Stackhouse The unsolicited emails I get from her campaign begin and end with her taking credit for being the first to demand Al Franken's resignation. Maybe she should have waited for the facts then, as well.
41
@Dan Stackhouse--
"Focus people, we have to beat Trump, not set Democrats to tear each other apart so that the con-man wins another term."--Dan Stackhouse
So, Dan, your plan is to defeat Trump by putting up a formerly-"conservative" upstate New York U.S. Representative who has magically converted to progressivism?
Gillibrand may not be quite the "con-woman" that Trump is, but her own hypocrisy will tear her apart--NOT other Democrats.
22
Boys will be boys, except when they might be actual competition in your Presidential aspirations. Somewhere, Al Franken is smiling.
Me Too, pun intended.
211
@Phyliss Dalmatian Is he smiling, though? After the Democratic party supported this hack stabbing him in the back, simply because he was too strong of a primary opponent? If I was him, this would make me even MORE furious.
25
@Phyliss Dalmatian
Thank you, my thoughts only you said it better.
1
Do we really need yet another reason to doubt Senator Gillibrand's abilities? She never should have been handed the office, and it's offensive that we are only faced with Trump candidates as an alternative to her record of hypocrisies.
58
She should resign and then apologize to Senator Franken. Then she should withdraw from the race with her >1%.
159
@kingpintoo
She is the candidate of the 1%, though not in the usual sense.
4
I’m no fan of Gillibrand, but don’t you see a pattern here as accomplished Democratic women are vilified, starting with “Crooked Hillary” and moving on to “Pocahontas” Warren and “Angry Amy?” This is an orchestrated Republican (or perhaps Russian) campaign to peel off Democratic Presidential contenders early on. I hope voters can see through it.
13
@LIChef. The pattern I am seeing here is Democrats, probably women, starting to yell that “the Russians are coming” any time one of the women candidates is criticized.
There is an article in this paper today about the questions surrounding the O’Rourke candidacy. It was followed by something like 500 comments. I certainly did not wade
through all of them but in the sampling I read numbers of readers questioned his experience, achievement and even his character. Not one mentioned Russians.
Expect that any candidate for the presidency is going to be fully investigated. No candidate is perfect. Each voter can decide for themselves what they are willing to excuse. What we don’t don’t need is a lot of surprises and scandals once the candidate is chosen or has taken the oath of office.
7
@LIChef I agree completely! I read many online newspapers, and there is also an explosion of coordinated vilification in the comment sections.
2
@LIChef. There's not much to "see through" here. It's fairly obvious Malik was quite a bit more than Gillibrand's "driver". Hence, he received a slap on the wrist rather than termination after, at best,after a half-hearted "investigation" by her own staff rather than an objective third party.
3
Such. A. Phony. How does she reconcile her zero tolerance with Franken with no due process but when it’s her staff, she looks the other way. Times up, Kirsten!
197
This is nuts.
4
In case you haven't noticed ...
For better or worse, the NYT has anointed Elizabeth Warren as the Democratic candidate of choice for 2020. Accordingly, the NYT has published, and will publish, critical stories about other DP candidates. This one is about Gillibrand, of course, and several others have been published about Bernie Sanders (the noirest of the bete noires in 2016). Others will appear about other candidates (Kamala Harris and Beto O'Rourke, for example), though some candidates with low poll numbers probably will be spared (Julian Castro, for example). Old war-horses, such as Joe Biden, will be special cases, who may just be dismissed without substantive criticism but as "too old" (which he is).
To be "fair," the NYT may publish an occasional "hit piece" on Warren too, but rest assured that it won't be a big deal and you'll probably end up thinking MORE highly of Warren after you're done reading it.
In case you haven't noticed ...
9
@MyThreeCents
On the other hand, they're definitely out to get YOU.
3
@MyThreeCents
You're noticing something that doesn't exist.
2
@Ralphie Time will tell. Probably unnecessary to say, but: Pay attention.
Another empty suit ... even if she's wearing one well-tailored for her.
Ambition is an unlovely thing, ... but when one tries to leave behind pro-gun nonsense when taking a long coveted next step up the ladder, one is on the lookout for other evidence of the candidate's prizing expedience above all.
Here 'tis.
This is 2020's version of Fiorina - someone play-acting as a Presidential candidate, hoping to build her name recognition enough to be thought of seriously as a v.p. nominee.
Yes, she's got a "meet cute" origin story - a blind and likely incompetent Governor having launches KG's ship in the short time before he left in ignominy.
It would have been great if she had been "the real deal," but she's just a younger version of Hillary - NYS Senator might be an exalted title - even Schumer has done a lot with it, but the last 2 women to hold the job just thought of it as a booster rocket.
What next - a College Presidency or a Foundation one? Once there's a ceiling back in place re her political future, watch her go to the highest bidder in the job market.
15
What goes around....
29
In a sea of victims we find a victim working for one who would believe all victims all the time regardless of evidence, statute of limitations, or due process based on gender. Check your female privilege.
Serves Gillibrand right, her brand of toxic misandry needs the immediate R. Kelly treatment.
Thank Goodness her inability to gain traction in her quest to bring her brand of hate into the White House appears exhausted.
12
I expected more from the “young mom.”
8
Does the Senator wear a petard? We will soon find out.
15
I'm glad to see I'm not alone. There's something in Ms. Gillibrand that rubs me the wrong way--something very surface. I can see she's driven, but I don't feel the compassion she claims. The sooner she is out of the race, the happier I will be. She's good at tasks, but when it comes to people, I'm not impressed.
38
Revenge is a dish best served cold. #alfranken
91
Maybe she can turn to Al Franken for advice.
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So another Democratic social warrior outed as a hypocrite on one of the lead issues she champions? Shocker- NOT
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What is it with the Dems and their inability to manage their own petards these days.
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Kristen Gillibrand habitually exhibits new heights of hypocrisy. She railroaded Al Franken right out of the Senate when his actions clearly demonstrated inappropriateness at worst and not sexual harassment when the context of the allegations was applied. She's a johnny-come-lately who jumps on bandwagons to serve only herself. She should get out now, based on the standards she has ruthlessly applied to others.
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@Susan Goosing women during photo opps, as Franken is alleged to have done, is merely inappropriate?
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@Susan I tend to agree. Franken was hounded as you say - No 2nd chance was given to him.
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@Luder Key word: "alleged." What we DO know is that there was no due process.
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I don't want to jump to conclusions about this matter, as all facts are not public yet. And her office is correct that inappropriate behavior regarding comments on appearance and the like, if not "sexual harassment" is typically handled by counseling, or other measures in the first instance, prior to termination. But beyond this matter, I am unimpressed with Gillibrand's campaign. While I laud her stance on women's rights and all, she hasn't genuinely expressed an interest in representing all Americans on a myriad of issues. She seems a single issue candidate.
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I love the boilerplate language used when a complaint is made about inappropriate behavior, that it is being "taken very seriously" and that it has "the highest priority."
Lawyerspeak used to smoke screen the fact that very little or nothing has been done, nothing substantive anyway.
After watching the shameful way Sen. Gillbrand treated her Democratic colleague Al Franken with her being the loudest (and quickest) voice to call for his resignation even before the Senate investigated the complaint (!) it is obvious to me that she is an opportunist who was more concerned with eliminating a potential rival for the 2020 primary slot than seeking what was just.
It is no wonder that she has gained zero traction with the party so far in her bid to become the Democratic nominee.
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I hope Sen. Gillibrand is one of the first to drop out of the presidential primary race. After what she did to Franken, she doesn't have a chance. She kneecapped him because she knew he was planning to run. Really, really do not like her and would never vote for her.
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The Gillibrand campaign got rid of the worker after Politico published news of the accusations (new details, as stated here; or, as the campaign claims, another accusation. Things don't look so great for Gillibrand. Was her initial investigation inadequate? Was her focus on covering this up? This is particularly unappealing given the way Gillibrand went after Al Franken whose mistakes did not rise to the level of sexual harassment or assault. Even at the time, it looked like Gillibrand was opportunistically sabotaging the political career of a more accomplished, more brilliant rival. All other things the same, one credible accusation should have been more than enough.
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While I have no interest/concern with defending Ms. Gillibrand or this instance, my experience with some younger women (particularly out of college) is that they have completely unreasonable expectations for workplace interactions. Anything can be turned into a micro-aggression mountain of HR problems. They perceive misogyny everywhere and no reservations about demanding someone get fired over their feelings/perceptions.
It's sad they're being taught to be so fragile and weak.
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@David - Says the man who has never tried to do his job while fending off unwanted attention and derogatory comments about his appearance.
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@David Does this also apply to the anonymous complaints about Senator Klobuchar bring a mean boss. will the NYT run several stories about Senator Gillibrand repeating this story and finding out who the other staffers who are mentioned in the article have to say?
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@DR Presuming much. Do we know each other? I certainly hope not.
@JGresham - Treating staff poorly is an automatic disqualifier as far as I'm concerned.
On the actual article, there are not many meaningful facts. However, paragraph 10 outlines the list of heinous, subhuman, sexual harassment offenses committed by this slightly higher than minimum wage driver worthy of national news:
*Allegations from the former aide included: called a woman fat, someone ugly, rated women’s appearances and said that a women was “into him.”
4
I just don’t see how commenting about a person’s appearance within earshot of another person can be considered sexual harassment. An inappropriate comment - yes - but cause for firing ? Now we have a whole new category in ‘informers’ just like Lenin and Stalin in the 1920’s and 30’s
13
@Jeff - I'm curious. How often have you ever had to deal with people commenting on your appearance while you're trying to do your job?
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@Jeff It's inappropriate to comment on people's appearance in the workplace, especially in ways that make your co-workers uncomfortable. It's one thing to give someone a generic compliment or make small talk, but calling people names isn't appropriate. In the article, they say that he didn't stop there: he rated people on their appearance and said another person was "into him". Save the gossip for your friends and you'll save yourself a lot of trouble.
He's an adult and this isn't his first job. He should have been more professional. It's not like the US Senate has a reputation for being a casual workplace.
2
@Jeff
I agree with you. Since the upsurge of the #MeToo movement I've been saying "define your (the MeToo-ers, which includes me) terms!" Harassment, assault, aggression, molestation, coercion, harrying, inappropriate -- such words are too loosely defined, and mean different levels of misbehavior to different people. So we struggle to understand what each other are actually complaining about, and to figure out the right response to what we assume the complaint means. Should someone be immediately fired for an allegation of "inappropriate" behavior before there is an investigation? I don't think so. Should someone be warned that such behavior is unacceptable at work and is not to be repeated? Yes. People need to sort out what is inappropriate, what is acceptable at work and on the street, how to relate to coworkers - and we need to figure it out soonest so we are all playing by the same rules.
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The allegations against this staffer sound far more serious than anything I’ve heard alleged about Al Franken. Seems like Gillibrand only sweeps into action when she thinks it will benefit her politically and allow her to grandstand, even to the point of destroying a fellow Dem whom we badly needed. I admit I was done with her from the start because of Franken, but this story only furthers my impression that she’s fairly substance-less and that she rings false.
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Sorry. When Senator Kirsten Gillibrand trashed Senator Al Franken -- one of the most articulate, knowledgeable, and caring (in the sense of "We the People") Senators that we have seen in a long time -- I was done with her. No need for me to hear more.
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Amen !
Thanks for saying it so articulately and succinctly. As you put it, no need for me to hear more.
Sadly, it's not just Gillibrand, as the only thing that can reelect Trump is the only thing the Democrats have mastered: the art of the circular firing squad.
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Well said, LynnBob !
And said articulately and succinctly.
The only thing that can reelect Trump appears to be the only thing the Democrats currently excel at, and that is the art of the Circular Firing Squad, Gillibrand functioning as self-appointed Captain.
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"...evidence revealed employee misconduct that, while inappropriate, did not meet the standard for sexual harassment." So the senator kept the guy on, and he went on to abuse other women?
But "meeting a standard" doesn't seem as important when Sen Gillibrand is attacking other public figures for their inappropriate acts. This is hypocritical.
2
Senator Gillibrand clearly is disconnected from the issue she has adopted as her campaign theme. She comes across as disingenuous, and in a time when women need sincere and effective advocacy, her exploitation of their issues is starkly cynical. Whether she drops out of the race today or waits until she is surpassed in the party polls by the many other more qualified candidates, she will eventually be gone from the field. She should save herself and her competitors the expense of waiting for the inevitable.
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Gillibrand's response seems all too slick to me. I think candidates like herself and Amy Klobuchar, who also mishandled staff complaints, need to work on their own personal issues and forego a presidential bid for a time when they are more fit to serve us in the highest office in the land.
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The only reason that I have a sliver of excitement about Gillibrand running for a national office is anticipating the savage joy I will feel at voting for literally anybody who is opposing her.
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That right wing conspiracy hit job on Franken didn’t qualify either, but she bought that one. I can’t support her.
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What's silly here is that there shouldn't be anything in this story that demonstrates a lack of a commitment to women's issues. The claim was taken seriously. It was investigated promptly. They did not find offenses worthy of firing. But Gillibrand has been known to say that she "believes all women." This is a great slogan but an absurd way to view the world and, more relevant here, a terrible employment policy.
The Democratic party is playing a game with these issues in which the stakes are terribly high and the rules are impossible to understand. Under these conditions, there are no winners and we will remain stuck with Donald Trump as President.
Gillibrand has an opportunity to save her candidacy and the party. This will not be done by firing this employee or promising to fire the next accused employee. But what if instead she chooses to explain what happened, why and how? What if she chooses to distance herself from "believe all women" explaining that this slogan does not work in a fair and just society? What if she took this opportunity to restore some common sense to the Democratic party?
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I am not surprised.
While serving and undergoing a divorce, my spouse was allowed to make all kinds of accusations that were utterly false (while herself committing multiple acts of domestic abuse).
The military responded by initiating a series of criminal investigations into me, all exonerating. Rather than accept the overwhelming weight of evidence, the military chose to keep investigating me ... but not the actual abuser.
I specifically reached out to Senator Gillibrand's for assistance. Despite her strong record against domestic abuse, her office came up with every excuse imaginable to not aid. I was apparently the wrong gender to fit into her political agenda.
I quickly discovered blind support from the same office for Emma Sulkowicz (aka Mattress Girl). There has been no apology from her office after the public learned that Emma was not only lying, she was publicly attacking her victim and enlisting the aid of friends to make further false allegations against an innocent Columbia student. Columbia settled, Senator Gillibrand ... appears to have failed to learn any lesson from these cases.
Due process is extremely important, and that appears to be something Senator Gillibrand does not want to acknowledge despite several powerful examples headed her way.
Her actions will, and should, prevent her from becoming President.
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I guess in this instance it didn’t involve a potential competitor to her presidential aspirations
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I considered her a wannabe since succeeding to the seat formerly held by Hillary Clinton. After the Al Franken debacle my dislike of Gillibrand was firmly cemented. I am not surprised the employee was only warned and not fired immediately. Obviously, a driver was considered more important to the Senator than a staffer. In my career as a supervisor I took immediate and strong positions against sexual harassment of employees. And called out those that made disparaging comments about others - female or male. The employee in this case kept acting the way he did because there were no consequences, what's more the aggrieved resigned. Where there is no immediate action and accountability, egregious behavior will continue. The Senator on the hook for this one.
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@Mahalo ''The employee in this case kept acting the way he did because there were no consequences''
Mr Malik did not get the promotion, was demoted, and was put on notice that he could be terminated.
@Lawrence apparently not consequential enough
2
Gillibrand did not hesitate when she
willfully attacked and destroyed
Al Franken.
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@Mayl. She has the soul of a tobacco lawyer. Which she was for many years.
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Oh, well if "the senator's office says the claim was handled appropriately," why do we even need to ask any more questions? If we can't trust the people who benefit from covering up sexual harassment, then who can we trust?
9
read the full linked politico story.
the woman was passed over for promotion and within days starts a "timeline" supposedly documenting how her soon to be boss has gone from likeable coworker to sexual assault by text & sexual harrasser. the story declares she was fine with the investigation until it went against her unproven claims.
she then quits demanding the office should have interviewed former employees whom she somehow knew had unreported accusations against the same guy. the most severe unreported claim is he called a woman fat to her face; the supposedly fat woman never told any one, so how did this woman know ?
she then has drinks with him during work hours and then accuses him of making a sexual advance.
and not a single word or quote or claim they, politico, tried to speak to the man.
she gets to smear him in the press by name and they don't give him a chance to respond.
When she does not get her way she runs to the media and the media convicts him but shields her so she can pull the same stunt the next time she doesn't get her way.
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“In a statement Monday, Ms. Gillibrand defended her office’s handling of the complaint. “As I have long said, when allegations are made in the workplace, we must believe women so that serious investigations can actually take place, we can learn the facts, and there can be appropriate accountability,’’ the statement said. “That’s exactly what happened at every step of this case last year.””
So I guess Senator Gillibrand pushed hard when Al Franken was accused so that serious investigations could actually take place, we could learn the facts...? Not at all. She called for his immediate resignation with no investigation whatsoever. Not only does she need to withdraw from the race for the presidential nomination, she needs to resign immediately from the Senate.
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The strongest case for Senator Gillibrand’s candidacy would arguably have been one of message discipline, specifically regarding the issue of sexual abuse and harassment. That argument just evaporated.
I’d still cast another ballot for her as Senator, but it’s time to start culling this absurdly oversized pool of presidential candidates. The “front runners” are mostly around the age when a CPAP machine poses as great a threat to their presidential bid as the campaign itself.
3
Gillibrand missed the mark on handling the Al Franken situation. There was no good reason to insist that he had to leave the Senate. Censure would have been appropriate. Instead Gillibrand opened up Democrats to "she said he said" allegations of sexual misbehavior that are often not provable and can tarnish or ruin a political career.
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If only Al Franken got the same "full and thorough investigation" that Gillibrand's own aide received.
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@cjp
You gotta admit, the photographs didn't help.
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@cjp Franken chose to quit his post after the accusations arose. He could have requested an investigation himself if he were as innocent as you seem to believe, but he wanted to avoid having one performed for whatever reason. You should ask yourself why he made no attempt to clear his name and instead ran away when the spotlight was turned on.
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@Cousy
This was a skit for Saturday Night Live. Al Franken Wasn’t a Senator. They were on there way to entertain the troops not able to come home for XMAS. Tweeden was wearing a military flak vest, bulletproof. It was a skit.
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This charge against Senator Gillibrand’s Office is hardly surprising. She’s an opportunist like Trump only with a more genteel veneer. This episode wouldn’t further her ambitions as much as when she threw Senator Franken under the bus.
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MeToo is an important movement, but as usual Democrats have leapt to it without a plan or even thorough consideration of all the ramifications, both political and legal, of simply contrasting themselves to the Republicans by becoming the "MeToo Party." MeToo, Confederate monuments, the Green New Deal, Democratic socialism, reparations for African-Americans, Native Americans, people with ingrown toenails . . . It never seems to end.
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@RS Yeah, why can't the Democrats follow the example of Republicans and their well-reasoned-and-ramifications-thought-out-in-advance actions like a major tax cut for the rich, tariffs, border-walls-paid-for-by-Mexico, sudden orderings of troops to the border, sudden declaration of state of emergency at border crossings, pulling out of military exercises with allies.....
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@RS
It can’t end. It is the basic psychological structure of the psycho-religious movement known as Progressivism is that their must always be a new cause, a new victim, a new sin to root out, a pariah to drive out, a heretic to burn. A constant drive to create Utopia.
Nothing new about the psychology. Well described long ago by Eric Hoffer in “The True Believer” and Camus in “The Rebel”.
2
The standard for evaluating this specific case can't only be legal.
When a person declares that they are a leader on an issue, then their actions have to be beyond reproach. The actions of Gillibrand's office to not meet the "beyond reproach" standard.
Given that Gillibrand's campaign has not resonated with the larger public, and she does not appear to have the credibility or assets to truly compete , she needs to get out of the race now, for her sake and everyone else's.
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@Cousy
She should step down from the Senate as well.
This is not a leader.
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@Cousy Yes, the standards for evaluating ANY specific case must be legal.
In this case, Senator Gillibrand's office substantiated the allegation and ... issued a final warning. She did not, despite her public stance, fire the man but allowed the woman to resign in protest.
Later, when further allegations were made, that same office claimed lack of knowledge.
It is precisely because we have legal standards that we know her office has not been truthful. It wished to indulge in deference privately, while publicly eviscerating every allegation in public - often to the detriment of due process.
She is unapologetic about it, and that is something the public is very much aware of. Too much ambition, not enough prudence.
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@Cousy
wrong! the only standard these type claims can be judged on are the legal standards. As it stands he is convicted in the press but no by a judge and jury. No due process for him, only instant lynching.
8