Not only is this an ill informed position it is an article that does not actually reflect what Federal Social Security Disability is.
Some think SSD is an entitlement - it is not. Anyone who works has sums taken out with each paycheck expressly for this “trust” fund. It can take years to receive it, often being initially “rejected” by a “clerk”. Many eventually go before an Administrative law Judge who looks at many factors + copious medical records which correspond with SSA requirements.
The income received is a % of what one earned prior + thus paid into the SSD(I) trust fund. It is a fraction of what one can earn by working, often indigent status.
To be considered Disabled by the SSA one must NOT be able to work on an "ongoing basis" with gainful employment that one was trained for or a compatible position. Or, one is expected to die. The actual criteria are lengthy and exacting. It does not go by diagnosis, but functionality.
In claims where at least one condition is judged to be severe, the disability examiner or judge will determine whether or not the claimant's condition is severe enough to keep them from engaging in work activity while earning at least a substantial and gainful income.
https://www.ssdrc.com/prem40.html
Functionality must be reduced by multiple organ failures or damage - often costing multiple tens of thousands in tests.
8
Social media has privacy settings. If it is set to private it is not a public posting and should be treated as any other private information. I do believe that fraud hurts everyone and should be prosecuted. I do not want to live in an Orwellian society
12
Umm... do people think if you apply for disability they are just like "Oh you applied! heres your money!"... it takes a lot of proof and can take years for some people to be approved. i would assume over the course of years theyd already have screened you pretty well to decide whether you needed it not. this just another attempt for the government to control people, so why not go for the people most vulnerable. nice.
11
The irony of an administration being led by a man who faked an injury to dodge the draft spying on everyday disabled Americans is not lost on me...
Truly pathetic.
318
@Keith
I worked for a large corporation on the East Coast for 22 yrs. We had mandated Workers Comp in several States. We did monitor those employees out on Comp. We were aware of doctors' mills where WC claims were submitted on a monthly basis. It was not easy to monitor all WC claims. However, it was easier than monitoring Disability claims. Disability claims often follow long term WC claims. The premiums for Disability were very high. Eventually we stopped Disability benefits where not mandated due to the high premiums charged by insurers. However; we did have regular checkups for WC, and for Disability. There is a limit to what a corporation can do to try to catch fraud. You just have to work with percentages, have enough coverage, and do the best you can. We had approx. 2300 employees; we had good health benefits, pensions which eventually ended in 1989, and 401K savings Plans. I can't speak to what SS does; my impression is that there are claims managers who keep track. There is no way to catch all fraud. Finally, I find it odd that a man who escaped Vietnam with fake bone spurs is so concerned with fraud. Add to that, this Administration is historically one of the most corrupt in history. So, we have the Foreclosure King chasing wrongdoers, and a revolving door of Administration miscreants in jail, or on their way to jail. It is a bit like "don't look here, look over there."
28
What we need is a bounty system to identify and document the fraudsters. I already spend a lot of time on line every day and would be thrilled to become a bounty hunter in return for a modest percentage of the funds I save the government (i.e., taxpayers like you and me).
3
If only our elected officials and their appointees were equally enthusiastic about requiring the DOD to pass an audit before approving even greater appropriations than requested, particularly since our war budget is already so much greater than that of any other country: https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-military-budgets-countries-2018-5
6
The way to get people to stop scamming on disability is to show them a society where the biggest scammers are compelled by law or public pressure to change their ways. Until that begins to happen, cleaning up disability scams is picking on the little guy for things the rich and powerful are admired and respected for.
We have billionaires who made their money by creating a gateway to opioid addiction, and retain most of that money. We have a president who glories in the many scams he has pulled; his supporters love him for this because they see the whole system as permeated by scams and he is scamming for them or on their behalf. Financial masters of the universe bring down the financial system and are made whole so they can do it again rather than being punished.
To start cleaning this whole mess up by going after disability cheats is the sort of sick joke we have become accustomed to. It represents a common attitude -- that we are all being ripped off and that someone who has less than we do is daring to upset the natural order of ripoffs by ripping us off. We can stand being ripped off by those above us, partly because we hope to join them some day, but we become insanely angry when people below us rip us off without achieving the success that gives them the right to do so.
8
I have no problem with giving SSA the power to use social posts, especially if you’re posting is set to public. If you don’t deserve the benefits because you are able to work, tax payers should not have to pay them. That being said, not all disabilities may be apparent in a given photo/post. Common sense judgment or a combination of other substantive evidence on the part of the adjudicators will still be needed. But, in this case, seems the overwhelming benefit could be that it becomes a deterrent to committing fraud.
1
It's not unusual for determinations to be based on a variety of data, and this may be no different than hiring an investigator to see if in fact, John/Jane Doe is playing golf or working construction while claiming disability.
Let's apply that reasoning to any crime.
The sifting through Facebook or Twitter is no different than Mueller sifting through mr. trump's past to see if trump benefited from claims that in fact are false: taxes, Russia, etc.
1
I temped full time for six months as progrm assistant in a disability adjudication office. I think there were 5 adjudicators an the same number of PAs. We all spent the whole day dealing with the paperwork for denied claims. I heard of one that was approved—the person was on his deathbed.
Meanwhile I have a disabled friend who would love to work part-time to contribute to society, but even if she found a job she could do ( not much), the local paratransit system is too unreliable for that.
Somehow I don’t think fraud is the main problem here.
14
I had a friend brag on her Facebook that she was riding her bike in the snow.
She doesn't even own a bike.
It's called "Fake-book" for a reason. How is this narcissistic free-for-all to be considered credible evidence. It's as idiotic as Trump's claims about himself.
9
One could have hours or days or even weeks of being able to work but still be unable to hold down a job. How many sick days could YOU take every month before you got fired?
You can't draw conclusions from seeing people on their best days. On their worst days they may be in bed all day but only their families and doctors know that.
7
One issue tangentially related to the main theme of this article is briefly mentioned: the in-person hearing process before an administrative law judge (ALJ). It is arbitrary to an unsettling degree about who gets on SSDI in the first place.
There is a huge disparity from the most "generous" to the most "mean spirited" of the ALJs -- meaning your chances of getting disability benefits are vastly different from the top of the ALJ list to the bottom. And most of this difference is attributable to bias one way or the other, not anything to do with the actual condition of the claimant. It's the luck of the draw: which ALJ will hear your case.
If you're interested, check out these links.
https://www.ssa.gov/appeals/DataSets/03_ALJ_Disposition_Data.html
https://oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/files/audit/full/pdf/A-12-17-50220.pdf
6
Seems counter-productive to let their intentions be known. Now the cheaters will just tailor their posts accordingly. There are plenty of people cheating the system and they'll just find a way around this, too.
2
Finally something I agree with the administration on
2
Republicans are laser focused on punishing poor people. They will pursue them to the ends of the earth to be sure they're not getting one penny they don't "deserve". Corporations, however, can scam billions and republicans' only concern is they may not be getting enough.
It's called choking on a gnat and swallowing a camel.
11
Sen. Lankford seems to be running on the "Make Those Lazy Liars Work" ticket.
And Mr. Mulvaney must have enough money saved that if he ever becomes disabled he won't be a burden on the taxpayers.
Punishing the poor and sick is a vicious way to claim you're a fiscal conservative, especially when you cut taxes on billionnaires.
11
those who reflexively say this is OK cuz trump says so: At some point, a different president will say "well, trump did it, so there's precedent!" What if the next president suddenly decides that THEIR DHS should separate children from trump-voting parents for re-education? Or dangerous Muslim children? You'd freak out, but you set the stage.
So many conservative mice now, very quiet, no? They were might lions once, roaring about the heavy hand of gummint, once upon a time.
My husband, a 100% combat disabled Vietnam veteran, also has Parkinson's. We've enrolled in a boxing class specifically designed for people with balance issues. When I shared a photo with friends, some expressed surprised that Al was able to be that active. "I thought he was disbled!" Boom.
'trump knows best' commenters must know how difficult it is to get disability if you are legally disabled. SSA weeds out the weak, makes it really tough, for that exact reason.
Now trump's govt will be to use your FB pics of the Christmas party (you were able to stand for a toast!) to prove (along with that security camera showing you unloading groceries at the outlet store) that you are actually an enemy of the people or something.
trumpists want it both ways. If you wish to simper that Obama was lawless, using his presidential power to grab power, you make yourself look really foolish when you do a 180 and now insist that the president's ideas never could be questioned.
3
I suspect this may be like mandatory drug testing for those receiving public assistance. When all costs were counted, it was cheaper to let the addicts spend their welfare checks on drugs then pay people to administer and interpret all the screening drug tests.
There will always be fraud and abuse. The questions is how far are we willing to go to be right about that?
3
@Pandora
You make a good point.
I cannot find the report from a few years ago whose findings indicated that there were more people who were legitimately receiving benefits and who deserved benefits but were not receiving benefits, than there were people cheating on benefits.
It's always easier to beat on the down trodden.
5
@Pandora Not only was it not cost effective but the following source says that drug testing simply on the basis of being a benefit recipient has been ruled a violation of the Fourth Amendment.
3
Investigative resources towards disability fraud are woefully scarce. Plus enforcement efforts are time consuming and labor intensive in order to determine if someone is committing fraud by habitually exceeding their supposed physical limitations or failing to report income earned “off the books”. C’mon, we’ve all seen or heard of a family member, neighbor or friend working on the side while collecting disability. That doesn’t mean everyone collecting is a faker, but there are enough that it’s a problem for the integrity of the program.
So if social media that is posted by the beneficiaries themselves is is used to focus investigations on recipients with obvious indications of misrepresentation of their true disability, how is that wrong? Nobody is drawing any conclusions just yet, but there’s enough smoke to look further and to focus investigators on the more likely cases of abuse.
1
I work with people with disabilities and many that are on SSDI have invisible disabilities, including chronic health and psychological. A simple viral snapshot is not a representation of how their disability impacts there ability to work. I don't see the administration spearheading legislation that would make it easier to work with a disability nor are they a progressive promoter of inclusiveness. It is just another means to marginalize another historically underrepresented population that the general population has a lot of ignorance about
5
Perhaps we should include surveillance of the social media accounts of the so-called “job creators” among the wealthy who we gave a nice hefty tax break to so they would re-invest and create jobs? No evidence on social media they’re wisely using the fruits of our largesse, they get to pay back the tax break.
8
Fraud is real and nobody may have expectation of privacy when the post publicly. For those who fear that their less visible diagnosis will not be recognized, please understand that physical or mental impairment is the criteria for disability, not a diagnosis. So evidence of a person doing things they claim they can't may be evidence of lying, or less impairment than claimed.
I once saw a person who claimed to no longer play softball since their injury years before. But an investigator produced a video of the same person sliding into first weeks before they made the statement. They were lying - malingering and the lie was cited and benefits likely denied. Unfortunately denial of benefits is generally the only outcome in such cases, not prosecution for outright fraud, which would be a deterrent.
This happens more than one might wish. I doubt that benefits will be revoked summarily based upon a Facebook post, but the details matter. Way too many use SSI, VA benefits and private disability for when they WON'T work, rather than CAN'T work. This is our money folks. Protect it.
2
While I object on principle to government surveillance of our personal lives except in targeted cases (suspected criminal activity), on social media you are pretty much putting your personal life out there.
As a life long social worker I can affirm that a lot of scamming of Disability benefits has been going on for decades. How? I worked in the foster care system in NYC for decades. An appreciable portion of the single women who came forward to become foster parents were on "disability". Many of them (not the occasional exception - many) were as fit as their nom-disabled neighbors and had successfully played the system to "retire early." Some were good and even great fm's, and some were using the kids for their personal benefit just as they'd played the Social Security system.
Donald Trump is a living, breathing crime against humanity, and on principle i oppose his various initiatives but this is an intetesting issue. Perhaps "permanent "disability should be periodically reevaluated.
I've been mentally disabled since 1999 and receive SSDI. I have a Facebook account with nobody on it, just a lot of liked things that I'm following. I almost immediately deleted it when I read this, thinking the nice selfie and landscape photos that I post occasionally would probably get my SSDI revoked. I had been hoping that eventually and slowly I could add real friends to my account, but I can see now that's not going to happen, and if it did, the biggest disaster of my life will happen.
4
It is clearly unfair to make the process of applying for SSDI support any more difficult than it needs to be. If the application procedures for SSDI are flawed let's fix them.
However, I hope so many commenters on this article are not really suggesting that SSDI fraud is acceptable or should not be found out and punished. Fake disability and fake workers' comp claims are crimes, no two ways about it.
Actually, I am surprised it has taken this long for SSDI to start investigating violations via postings on social media.
As a Social Security SSDI recipient, I have no problem with this proposal. It was really hard for me to qualify (I have a spinal cord injury and cannot walk) but I desperately needed it. I would love to see those trying to cheat the system get caught!!
3
Many here are concerned that one with a disability might be seen is 'okay' based on a picture in FB. However, I don't think this approach is absolute - you can be laying on a beach and still have severe arthritis. The gov't wouldn't be able to go after you just on that basis. But, if you are playing golf with a severe back injury, you are at best suspect and would warrant further investigation. The government would not be able to just kill your claim and stop paying you based on a picture.
However, this would be a cost effective way to investigate abuse and fraud. While most commenting speak to their own disability (or a friend/family member's) and are outraged that a picture may imply their disability doesn't exist, they do not recognize that there is real fraud and billions are wasted on fraud.
Also, for what it's worth, when you post on FB, you give away your privacy. Those applying for jobs are shocked when they don't get hired because of postings on FB. Every company I've worked with goes on FB and twitter to 'see' what kind of person you are and do use that to drop you from the list of potentials. Why not the government?
1
The reporting here is that the disability program expends $11 billion per month, or $132 billion per year; and also that the SSA estimates it made $3.4 billion in overpayments in 2017. I don't know if "overpayments" include an estimate of fraud, but if so, that represents just 2.6% of the program's outlays. No one wants to waste $3.4 billion, but that does not strike me as a runaway disaster.
@Stephen Miller Last time I thought about it $3.4 billion looked like a lot of money--still does.
I already spend a lot of time on-line every day, so I would be thrilled to get a bounty contract with the feds that paid me a small percentage of the funds saved in return for tracking down violators via social media.
This is a frightening story that should be on the front page of newspapers and the headliner on other media outlets all across the country...seriously.
This kind of invasion of privacy - this kind of below the radar activity - by the Trump administration is happening all across our society in subtle, covert and quiet ways...
...and it is steadily and comprehensively undermining our democracy every single day.
This issue is only the tip of the iceberg and cause for alarm.
2
This issue should be on the front page - and the headliner on cable media networks - all across the country...seriously.
This invasion of privacy - and this kind of below the radar activity - by the Trump administration is threatening our very democracy and is happening quietly, covertly, and subtly all across the board in this country...every single day now.
This proposal is alarming, and just the tip of the iceberg.
And, unless we begin to "wake up and smell the coffee" we will only discover the depth and the breadth of the damage done to our society and our way of life by this administration...after it's too late.
2
How long before the government's monitoring social media (and all related analytics) to see who's an "enemy of the state"? I wonder if the same crowd that's worked up over a fantasy of the government taking our guns has similar concerns about the actual likelihood of the government taking our privacy?
3
My judge used my ability to even get on Facebook once every two to three days as one of her examples of me not being disabled!! I am insulted and disgusted and truthfully scared to death. I have terrible back pain after several surgeries and years of trying every possible way to get back to work and out of pain many of which were extremely painful. My lower back and even my lower stomach is riddled with scars. I can function for an hour maybe two but in great pain but then I have to get the weight off my back for an proportional amount of time which is only done by lying down with heat or ice. I'm half of the person I used to be and even worse half the mom I used to be but I was denied disability. I sat at that hearing for an hour and could barely walk out of the office and had to lay back in my car crying for a half hour before I could drive home but the fact that I could make it to the hearing and drive to the hearing and I can lay down in my bed with a heat pack and look on Facebook once every few days I was determined not disabled. There is much more to my story but it seems judges are using Facebook to decide if people are disabled or not without even looking at it.
2
If the Social Security Administration would put the names and identifying information of persons who have applied for and/or are receiveing disabilities benefits, it might be a first step on weeding out fraud in the system.
1
The U.S. will no doubt use AI technologies to gather, analyze and categorize information for human follow-up. And once they starting doing it to check disability claims, you can bet that this data will be used by every other agency that has an interest in spying you. Big brother? For sure.
1
Fake SSDI claims should be investigated and prosecuted if appropriate. However it seems that the money lost by (mostly wealthy) people evading taxes is a far more serious problem than any fake SSDI claims. And yet there isn't any funding increase for the IRS so that agency could properly examine tax returns. It's the old problem with this country: the wealthy get a free pass regarding their big scams, the poor are harshly punished for their little (sometimes nonexistent) scams.
5
I am certainly concerned about SSI fraud. The end result is likely to be such deep cuts to the program and/or a draconian eligibility process that makes the application process too difficult for many truly disabled persons. But I think the greater worry is the rise of Big Brother. On the other hand, there may be a somewhat compensating benefit in discouraging people from using open social media like Facebook to post anything and everything about themselves.
3
One fallacy is thinking that if someone can ever do a task they can always do it. In Utah a man with a back injury lost his disability when a investigator took photos of him fixing the family car. That was overturned at trial. The fact that he could endure the pain and days laid up afterwards because him repairing the family car was the only reasonable option open to him a judge and jury found did not indicate that he could also endure the strain of working the regular hours necessary for full time gainful employment. Many if not most people with disabilities have some especially good hours and sometimes even an especially good day or two. That does not mean however that they suddenly have that degree of remission on a predictable daily basis that would permit them to hold down a full time job. More common I think is for people to do too much when they are feeling good and suffer for it in the next few days. I think a great many suffering from degenerative diseases would love to have the level of relief that opponents of disability benefits ascribe to a single incident. A couple of still photos as in the case of the man with a bad back fixing the family car often don't tell the whole story. But many having seen just such revealing scenes in television shows seem ready to jump to making a snap judgment based on that kind of limited information.
18
I had an L&I claim for a work injury and my case worker said that fraud is rampant.
1
@M
It is in the White House.
5
Way too many groups sucking up Social Security. Time to reddefine and tighten those entitled to receive benefits.
5
@ellie k.
You want false claims and a history of fraud? Then you shouldn't mind Trump showing us his tax returns, along with the financial statements that accompanied them
Also his bank loan applications and accompanying financial statements.
And his insurance claims.
I trust you wouldn't have any objections in looking at the former "Dean" of Trump "University" when it comes to fraud, right?
7
This is ridiculous! People on social media strive to make themselves look as good as possible. Especially mentally ill people. They could write the most cogent pieces but while they are doing it they may have boots on their feet soaking in a basin of cold water. People seem to think that mentally ill people are stupid when most are very bright. So the problem here is how does one tell if someone is not mentally ill just from what they post? Remember when they opened mental institutions and let people out in droves? Homelessness exploded. So think if they take away SSID because some mentally ill people can form cogent posts? I do not like social media as a rule, but I applaud how so many people who had no other outlet to make friends and find some sort of happiness. I do not agree with this at all.
7
This is unconstitutional plain and simple. It is called the 4th amendment. If there is probable cause then go to the courts and obtain warrant. Otherwise, unless I make my post public it is none of your business.
7
I have my Facebook account set so that almost no information is shown to the public. Is this article suggesting that Social Security is able to override my settings to access my information, photos etc? Or am I missing something? Thanks.
6
Mr Trump is on record saying that he is smart because he dosn't pay taxes. So basically he claims that playing the system is ok.
Why is he going after people who are playing the system at their level?
Mr Trump plays the system for Millions of $ while the guy who gets SSI cheats the system for thousands of $.
I'm not encouraging anyone to cheat. but this is the reason why Politicians , and especially Presidents have to be law abiding citizens, not criminals.
The idea that a sitting president can't be indicted just doesn't make any sense to me. How could the Trump administration, lead by a Man who is on records saying how smart he is to have cheated the US government is now going after Americans for following his example.
Trump going after the SSI cheaters is akin to El Chappo going after the small time drug dealer.
9
That is why it takes so long to get on it because there is so much fraud. It is about time that someone thought of this , Thank you Trump
While your at it test people for drugs on welfare
2
Back in the days of living in a trailer park in the deep South, many of the residents were on disability. Only two seemed to need it. My husband and I worked, I worked usually 50 hour weeks. That made us targets. Many of those disabled residents were always asking if we knew of jobs 'under the table'. One of them, who had a back problem, (thought she was always working hard in her little yard when nobody was looking) would ask this a lot.
My husband and I were going out of town, and needed a pet sitter for our two sweet little bunnies. We asked this neighbor if she could come over and hold them because they loved to be petted. No cleaning of cage. We had full cable and internet (she didn't have anything and complained about that) and told her she could watch any movies she wanted, we would pay, just hold and pet bunnies. Surf the net and hold a bunny. We would pay her a generous fee because we knew she needed money, and we thought would help her keep her dignity with a simple task.
She became angry and stomped away. Then we realized our mistake: "Job under the table" really meant "give me money for nothing." She was furious we took her at her word and offered a fun job. We found this was true of most of the park. When they started asking about the under the table jobs, we would suggest easy work ideas and they would scurry away. They believed they were entitled to our money for nothing because we worked. Your money too. Uncle Sam, bring on your spies.
7
Oh how Americans hate the poor. Because believe me nobody gets rich on a monthly disability check.
17
My concern about government trolling Facebook to see who's "cheating" on disability is that many healthier people don't understand how some illnesses can result in some good days amongst the bad (including severe anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, etc.). People don't usually post when they hurt, or can't get out of bed. They post when they feel well enough to leave the house!
106
true, but that can be investigated and then handled accordingly.
1
@Anna
I would like to recommend your post a thousand times.
14
And the various municipalities around the country should also use social media to investigate some of the dubious tax free disability retirements claimed by some public service Police and Fire personnel as they get close to retirement age. Most are legit, some most certainly aren't.
4
Social Security disability insurance may not be sexy or the first part of the program people think of, but when it's needed, it's a lifesaver and a homesaver.
I know of many people who lost their homes when they became disabled. I was luckier. I was able to sell a large home and buy a smaller condo with the equity from that home plus a little savings. Luckily the children were grown so I didn't need as much space.
But many are not so fortunate.
And while playing golf or Frisbee with a back injury is totally possible, given the on-again, off-again nature of some disabilities, I have to ask: what will SSA do when they see that a person with a mental disability can string an intelligent sentence or two together? Will they assume the mental illness is cured? Or is it simply a good day?
Re-evaluations for disability ask who does the home chores. In my case, no matter what, I did, because there was no one else to do them. Sometimes they waited. Sometimes dinner was a bowl of cereal.
People who are not disabled should not get SSDI income, but nuance is very important. Frisbee doesn't prove much.
11
"In its latest financial report, Social Security estimated that it made $3.4 billion in overpayments to disability insurance beneficiaries in 2017"
I wish authors would put their articles into better context. $3.4B/year seems like a huge number. It is. And while I found the total payment figure of $11B/month in another section of the article, I speculate the author used that number rather than the full annual number to make the issue appear bigger.
The 2017 budget for SSDI was $150B. Over payments are 2.3% of the budget. I don't mind an effort to further reduce fraud/overpayments, but based on the reactions to the article, people are thinking its a rampant problem.
By comparison, its estimated that $50B per year is stolen from employers by their own employees. Another $50B is lost to shoplifting.
5
I think publicly posted material on social media is fair game since it is being put out there for the entire world to view. That said, publicly posted materials ALONE should not be enough to trigger a denial of benefits, but could be an aid to investigators to know who to investigate and obligate those investigators to find outside evidence that must corroborate any supposed fraud.
2
How much is it going to cost to monitor thousands of innocent people? How about we go after rich tax dodgers instead? There would be a much bigger payoff per offender. I know just where we can start looking.
11
"The Trump administration has been quietly working on a proposal to use social media like Facebook and Twitter to help identify people who claim Social Security disability benefits without actually being disabled."
Can't help but wonder if this is a born-again version of Reagan's welfare queen driving a Cadillac repackaged by Pence and the right wing for the masses.
If Trump and his team of, dare we say white-collar criminals, want to reclaim money fraudulently taken from taxpayers I recommend:
> Audit the tax returns of Trump, his family, Trump appointees, hedge fund managers, Big Pharma, defense contractors, Wall street executives and massage parlor owners providing "services" to the rich and famous.
> Investigate the multi-millionaire doctors, healthcare corporations, and medical device providers who are defrauding Medicare.
That's where the big money is.
14
The thing is, shouldn’t persons with disabilities be allowed to have a life outside of their illness? Shouldn’t they be allowed to go to birthday parties and their son’s wedding; go on vacation or visit a newborn grandchild? They may have severe impairments, but they also have lives to lead.
106
the article is talking about evidence of physical activity that would be doubtful for a person with whatever their disability is to participate in. obviously sitting at a backyard party isn't going to trigger anything. but perhaps skiing, playing golf or swimming in the ocean might be something beyond what a person's claimed disability would permit.
3
One person I know was on disability and was working in construction off the books! How disabled can you be if you are doing demolition?
Another I know was a police officer, who I have seen several times running. If she can run, she can work!
Nobody I know who collects a disability check is actually disabled. And most of them worked off the books to collect extra money in addition to the money they were getting for the government.
And WE are paying for it all.
5
@BA
The people that you know are a very small sample size, and provides nothing to contradict the many people on SSDI that deserve it.
21
I became disabled in 2011 and got on FB in 2016. As a bad joke I posted a picture of myself doing a cartwheel in 2007, when I was still well. So I will be penalized for posting the wrong picture?
5
no because it will be investigated and determined that this was pre disability. please, be realistic
What about people who play golf with bone spurs?
20
Further support of abandoning Facebook.
8
I knew that Trump if petty and vindictive, but this is ridiculous.
Consider the claims he makes for instance of his "stamina" and his ability to play 18 holes when it comes to golf.
He's lying.
Why would anyone consider bragging on Facebook as evidence?
It's known to most as "Fake" book for a reason.
2
SSA doesn't even need to do this much. The mere fact you can 1) identify what a computer looks like. 2) can turn on the monitor and the tower. 3) open up a browser and 4) click on. bookmark means you are ready for gainful employment and NOT disabled.
So said the judge in my schizophrenic cousin's SSA disability case. He was denied three times before finally winning the princely amount given to someone who has never been gainfully employed.
Even "scamable" claims like back pain or fibromyalgia have a minimum 4 years of before anything is finally yay or nay.
I call shenanigans on this whole mess. The people I know trying to get SSDA are truly too disabled to work.
8
This is really a new low for this country. If they want to save money on fraud, they should start with increasing taxes on the billionaire class, not harassing people for trying to get out in the world and make themselves better by exercising and then posting about. This proposal is really just stupid. Most of the people I know are much unhealthier than they appear to be on their social media photos. There is a lot of cheap software out there that make people look better than they actually look in person. This is another zero-iq conservative idea that is sure to bloat the federal bureacracy with little or no measurable results on our rapidly expanding budget deficit.
6
I suspect few would argue against doubling down on disability fraud. But isn't government monitoring of social media, a slippery Orwellian slope? Where are the conservatives who object to government collecting data on people? And Heritage Foundation-- supporting a crackdown on disability at the expense of privacy? Where is the ACLU on this?
91
@Bruce Hill Yep, my first thought as well.
(Side note: What are libertarians going to say about this one? Or would they say that all Social Security and disability, etc., should be eliminated, period?)
4
@Bruce Hill It's not a slippery slope, it's a greased slide.
12
This is not going to be cost-effective. If there are 100 cases found by this surveillance, there will 100 investigations. Many of these will get to the point of litigation. So how many real fraud cases will be found? Five? Eight? Is it worth it? Is this all perhaps a price we have to pay to keep the system honest?
3
SSDI is a slush fund of abuse for semi-disabled beneficiaries who could otherwise participate in the workforce with rehabilitation. Yes it can take a couple of years to be approved and people are almost always automatically denied in the first attempt. Applicants then receive notice that they can appeal and are referred to a list of attorneys qualified to argue Social Security cases. It's a lucrative practice for these attorneys, who then receive a percentage of the settlement. Most of the time, people using this appeals system are approved. There is evidence states are complicit, steering laid-off employees to SSDI when factory towns are affected, as it saves the state money. Many people on SSDI work odd jobs for cash and could be retrained to participate in the workforce. It's a form of welfare yet not treated as such. It deserves scrutiny and it will be interesting to watch the reaction of Trump's base, as much of the base lives in states with high numbers of people on SSDI.
2
Seriously? This old canard? In spite of what Geraldo Rivera thought he found decades ago, it is VERY difficult to get disability benefits, and generally now takes about three years to do so, even if you have a very severe, very documented disability.
And some people who have a very severe, very documented disability actually CAN, once in a blue moon, play golf - on a good day - but they will pay for it in the days and weeks to come.
Why don't we instead go after the real criminals, those generally escaping any notice at all, only recently coming into view - that would be the white collar criminals. White collar criminals are harming us all in ways we cannot even measure, in the millions and billions of dollars a year, unlike one or two disability frauds here and there, bilking our government out of a few thousand dollars a year.
5
There are 3 categories of SSDI fraud - provider fraud, insurer fraud, and patient fraud. Patient fraud is low hanging fruit, which is easiest to investigate & prove, but has smallest financial impact. Senator Rick Scott (R - Florida) may be the expert on provider fraud. He was ceo of Columbia HCA, when this hospital network was fined $1.7 billion dollars in fraudulent Medicare / Medicaid claims.
There is lots of misinformation on social media. Using thin slices of questionable data is an easy way to threaten and intimidate people that an autocrat bully wishes to control. The current potus, settled a $25 million dollar fraud claim with 3,000 so-called university students before taking office. I posit there are NO medicare patients committing fraud at this level.
12
People do what they can to survive. Are there enough living wage jobs for all? Do you really want these people working beside you. Some people can’t work.
3
If a judge or administrator is corrupt, or can be fooled in person or on paper, why would using social media make their judgment any better?
One of the beautiful things about Facebook is that it has allowed people with disabilities to exit isolation.
5
I know 17 people, (three couples) including me who get VA benefits. Out of the 17, two, me and a friends son were in combat. The rest mostly never left the states. No one will go after the vets but they are fleecing you.
2
All this is a ruse by the Trump administration, and Trump himself, To divert attention away from the egregious social and economic trespasses of the ultra wealthy. Such a despicable craven witchhunt no longer help him to shift the blindingly bright lights of sustained media coverage off of himself and other criminal billionaires. to attempt to do so is at best, anachronistic. Times have changed, Mr Trump.
3
Without those disability checks , whether valid or not, there would be more homelessness, more hunger. Americans don’t have as much opportunity for a living wage job as you might think. Maybe the answer is Basic Minimum Income for all.
4
It is appropriate for the government to look to Facebook and public social media for evidence of fraud.
People are entitled to privacy. No one wants the government to hack webcams in people's homes to look for evidence of fraud. But using public behavior and information people post publicly is fair game.
Fraud is one of the major problems with government entitlement programs, including social security disability, and the Medicare system. Disability fraud is one of the major forms of fraud, including in social security, private disability insurance, and employment-related disability coverage (especially public employment).
Such fraud threatens the financial viability of the social safety net, and is a major reason why many taxpayers don't wish to expand the safety net. Fraud has become so prevalent that just about all of us see it happening. It's only natural to resent it when we see our taxes pay for someone else's ill-acquired benefit.
Not only is the government allowed to use public social media to deter fraud, it's the government's obligation to do so.
This could go the other way. Someone on disability will now post pictures of themself that supports the claim.
2
They’re welcome to try this I suppose, but given how hard it is to actually get disability in this country, I’m guessing that disability fraud is about as common as voting fraud.
3
How much of the increase in the past decade is from children/adults with special needs receiving SSDI benefits?
That seems to be a significant part of it. Anybody know?
I have Class III heart failure due to radiation exposure as a child. I have not applied for disability yet, but eventually it may come to that. The thing about heart failure is that you have good days and bad days depending on the amount of fluid you are holding. On one day, I may feel like nothing is wrong with me and then not be able to walk around my house the next. Unfortunately, it is hard to find a job that only lets you work on the days you feel well. Right now, I'm working. I may not be able to in the future. Under this proposal I could be penalized for posting a picture of a good day, which says nothing of what I face on my bad days. I'm sure heart failure is not the only condition that presents itself like this. Only doctors can evaluate a patient's fitness to work; not some non-medical government official creepily browsing Facebook profiles.
9
The thing is, disability does not equal "unwilling" to work. My brother has epilepsy. 300 days a year, he is perfectly capable of working. Unfortunately, when he gets a job, he can only keep it until he has his first seizure at work. It's a scary thing to watch and after managers see it, they start to consider the risk of having him on-site. Slowly, he starts to get fewer and fewer hours on the schedule. Suddenly, he will get a bad review. Because he lives in a right-to-work state, he often gets let go with no explanation. He worked for one company for a year. Got two promotions, got three pay raises. Finally had a seizure at work...disappeared from the schedule for the next week. Fired the week after.
What else is he to do? So, he's on disability. That at least, gives him a steady income and access to healthcare. His Facebook posts might show him hiking, or gardening, or replacing shingles on the roof of his house. He is NO LESS disabled, simply because he doesn't fit neatly into the box that most people envision for disabled people.
21
" A picture tells a thousand words".
Not really.
Medical documentation, continued activity that seems to contradict the persons disability and obvious intent to deceive would be paramount to a single photo or post on Facebook.
The woman who replied that her sister, having cystic fibrosis, spent summers on the beach for her health is a case where the photos show "activity " for curative purposes.
5
Based on three decades of expertise in this sphere, the disability program is poorly run and intellectually fraudulent.
The statute defines SSD as an inability to do any and all work. The so-called vocational rules are designed to benefit the less educated and less skilled. As well intentioned as this is, this is not equal protection under the law.
Administrative law judges and the courts should be
permitted to reverse denials only for errors of fact and for blatant omissions and other such mistakes.
My long history with SSD and SSI claims indicates that a majority of claimants have minimal and spotty work histories and are at the lower end of the economic spectrum.
Social Security Disability should be an optional coverage, along with coverage under vocational rules and coverage for auxiliary beneficiaries (spouse and
dependent children).
@J.Jones With due respect to your three decades of expertise, the statute does not define disability as inability to do any and all work. It defines disability as inability to engage in substantial gainful activity caused by an illness (or illnesses) which can be expected to prevent the person from engaging in substantial gainful activity for at least 12 continuous months or result in death. In addition, if a person does not meet/equal the medical/mental criteria set forth by SSA, the person is given the chance to qualify for disability by considering their, age, education, and vocational history. The statute and the regs. recognize that the older, less skilled, and less educated a person is, the less if a chance that person has to make an adjustment to a different kind of work given the limitations imposed on them by illness. This has nothing to do with equal treatment under the law. Treating everyone equally means treating the oldest, least skilled/educated people as being able to make the same vocational adjustment as the youngest, most skilled/educated people—how would that be equal treatment under the law?
8
@Bob I should have used the term SGA and defined it. However, it was implicit that I meant remunerative work. However, I do disagree with you regarding equal protection of the law, whose application should be devoid of individual circumstances.
We only can hope that our differing views will provide food for thought to those who enact our social security and disability statutes.
I live in the rural south, where it seems that "drawing disability" has become a career choice for some. It's no secret that many people on disability are simply gaming the system, with the help of lawyers who advertise on billboards. I have no issue with the government using social media to verify these peoples' ailments.
10
Me neither. Add in the rust belt states. Both zones voted for trump and the GOP. Let 'em now eat that cake.
2
People who use the social safety net benefits in this way are often from communities that are very unhealthy. Psychological and social stress from childhood poverty, subpar educational systems and poor diets create people who become disabled rather quickly after being injured. Some also become addicted to opoids after going to their doctors for relief. These folks also live tend to live in areas that have few opportunities for gainful employment except MacDonalds and Walmart and other low cost retailers which don't pay a living wage. This kind social and economic environment creates all kinds of disabilities.
1
Moves like this are long overdue. It is sad that people are and have abused this safety net for decades. Means testing and verification, re-verifications are much needed. Cheers to the Trump administration for taking these moves.
11
@Nature Voter - Trolling disabled people’s social media accounts is not the same thing as legitimate “testing and verification”.
I wouldn’t cheer too loudly for the Trump administration. Trump is trying to railroad every environmental policy going and is blathering about “beautiful, clean coal”. That would concern me as a “Nature Voter”. Today it’s disabled people. Tomorrow it’s the forests and the trees and everyone who loves them. After that, God only knows.
You’re not seeing the forest for the trees, Nature Voter. It’s time to get some perspective, or at least face the reality that Trump does nothing that benefits anyone save himself. This malevolence towards SSDI recipients is hardly surprising. Trump is a liar and a fraud, and all liars and con artists think everyone in the world operates just like them. Why shouldn’t he believe SSDI recipients are trying to pull a fast one? He’s been pulling one all his life.
3
What is the justification for means testing of disability? I know 3 well educated, formerly well compensated people with dreadful disabilities. One an accident at age 40, the others debilitating diseases in their 50s. Are you saying they should be disqualified for benefits they paid for, because they are not in living at a poverty level? That's like saying well off people should pay to check out books from the library that others get for free. Benefits accrue to all of us as needed or earned. Otherwise as Margaret Thatcher said, there is no such thing as society. The social contract goes both ways, or it is shredded.
Disability applications peaked in 2011 and have trailed off since. Funny the author didn’t mention that in the article. Why do you suppose disability claims would spike when the economy was in the pits?
2
How about checking on people with bone spurs who play golf? If you are too disabled to go in the military, you are too disabled to cost us millions every weekend golfing.
I would be interested in hard data, not anecdotal remarks. I would also be interested to see if there has been a sharp drop in people living with HIV/AIDS applying for disability as treatment has improved and extended their lives.
Oh, and I would be interested to know when and with what vigor the administration will be investigating waste, corruption, and graft in military contracting and the Pentagon.
10
I am all for this help and even more for the disabled. Must admit I know several persons classified as disabled who could be working. One became an alcoholic and could not work so he got disability for drinking his way into it. I suspect there is a great deal of fraud.
5
@Chris - You don't get Social Security Disability for alcoholism. He's probably on SSI (Supplemental Security Income), a program for the very poor disabled who haven't been able to work long enough to be eligible for Social Security. It's paid for out of the general fund, not out of SS funds, and has different eligibility requirements.
1
That’s rich given how trump used fake bone spurs to escape military service. I wonder if there are any trump die hards out there who regret their votes yet.
10
Umm good idea root out the cheaters
2
Like Manafort in his wheelchair???
11
This is silliness. If someone is on disability without justification then the government should do an actual investigation, not stalk people on social media.
5
@Anon
It isn't meant to be an investigation. It is meant to do two things: intimidate people in to not applying for benefits and to distract from the mess in the Administration. It is a cudgel to beat the Democrats with during the election season(s), a variant on "soft on crime". All brought to us by a criminal in the Oval Office who never saw a chance to lie, cheat, and steal go to waste.
You want to root out waste in government? Get the lobbyists out of the conference rooms where the laws are written.
2
Those heel spurs must be disabling the president more than ever.
9
This should be illegal folks! The trump administration is coming after all domestic programs with a the effort to dismantle them all. Remember when you vote in 2020. Do not get caught up in the lies they are going to be telling you from now until Nov 2020 election. There are going to be hundreds of them!
9
The main purpose of FB for people on SSDI is to have some place where they discuss with those with their same diseases medical care,l doctors and general support. without these, the many people on SSDI that are basically chronically and terminally ill, like myself, cannot have any encouragement or learn new information and read new white papers on their conditions. This is done in PRIVATE GROUPS. How can the government read into PRIVATE GROUPS and look for comments that dont' sound disabled? This is part of Trump's HATRED OF DISABLED AMERICANS and his way to get rid of the "weak" so he can have more money to pay golf. THIS IS DISGUSTING.
The people who cheat are not on FB stating they cheat. The SICK PEOPLE are on FB looking for SUPPORT and INFORMATION. That simple.
10
Is there a statute of limitations on Selective Service fraud? Now that Donald's heels are all healed up, I look forward to seeing the Commander in Chief marching in lockstep with all the other raw recruits. A few miles in GI-issue gear with a 30 lb. pack would do him good!
9
My daughter worked for years to get her mother, completely immobilized by early onset Alzheimer's, covered by disability. The obstacles to that decision are very, very hard to get past.
Big brother browsing social media, however, to catch the frauds is so easy to bypass: don't participate in social media. Take all the photos you want. Don't post anything. If you paint the kitchen, invite people over to show it off. Forget Facebook. Live in the moment, treasure the joy.
I'll be happy if real fraud is reduced, whatever the strategy, but not if it makes those truly in need have to jump through more hoops and deal with more heartless bureaucracy.
Living your life in public is exposing yourself. Don't do it.
6
How will Hannity discuss this issue? He won't. I wonder if those lovely people in Alabama will love their godly president when they find out. Here are the top 5 states for disability payments. W. Virginia, 8.8% Alabama, 8.3% Arkansas, 8.3% Kentucky, 8.0%.
12
In western Pennsylvania disability fraud is rampant.
2
The question is why? It’s not as if a monthly disability check will allow you to live comfortably.
Thus proving most disability applicants are liars. Nearly every person I have know applying for disability status is a lying cheat. Same goes for 9 out of 10 people with disabled placards for their cars.
@kate
I am sorry that you are living in a crime family all cheating SSA. This piece does not say that "most disability applicants are liars". Is also is not easy to get a disabled placard for driving.
Read the comments. You will learn that the process to apply for SSDI is lengthy and arduous. In my state, at least 60% of all applications are denied immediately. I can assure you that there are people who die while waiting, that is how long it takes to get approval.
I suspect that the people in the administration pushing this highly questionable idea are projecting their own pursuit of ill-gotten gains on to anyone who seeks to access benefits that, by the way, they earned while working.
3
Menawhile 45 threatens witnesses and blantantly lies on Twitter everyday. Anyone watching him?
4
SS DI serves 10M citizens = 3% of population.
Total 2018 SS DI = $144b = 3.5% of total $4.1T budget
SS DI est. "overpayments" = $3.4B = .00083 of budget
Meanwhile:
US MIC costs = +/- $1.3 trillion = 32% of total budget.
What in the name of the Good Sweet Goddess is wrong with us?
8
What is the actual percentage and amount of fraud with SSDI?
This sounds more like the supposed "thousands of illegals flooding our borders". More smoke and mirrors from the most fraudulent and corrupt person -donnie trump!
4
Good! And then prosecute the fraudsters and throw them in jail.
1
If only there had been Facebook when Trump said he had heel spurs and got out of going to Vietnam. There would have been daily pictures of him playing golf and a military transport, at the ready, on the 18th hole.
3
Also, people often post many photos on their social media pages. How will the Government Inquisitors determine which photos are of the person on whose page they are posted? What if a person is confused with a completely different person who has the same or similar name? Given the publicity about Facebook's misuse of user data, it seems likely that posters are minimizing the amount of identifying personal data they are supplying to social media accounts. This proposal may cause more problems than it solves.
This is ludiquist. In 2001 I had a stroke & diagnosed with Chronic Kidney Disease, 2005 End Stage Renal Disease which required me to go onto dialysis & in 2006 had my 1st kidney transplant. When that kidney failed October 13, 2013 I went into a coma for 10 days, in the hospital 92 days with a feeding tube thru my nose the entire time. Then I was transported by ambulance to in-patient rehab for 3 weeks. 24 hours prior to being transported the feeding tube was placed into my stomach for another 7 weeks. I had to learn how to walk, talk & eat all over again. Just 10 months ago after 5-1/2 years I’ve started walking on my own inside my house. When I go outside I still have to use my rolater walker. In 2016 I had my 2nd transplanted Kidney.
If I want to go to the beach & bathe in the ocean & post it on Facebook I sure don’t want them to think I’m not disabled. I’d like to enjoy the days I have left of my life.
I count on the misely $1300. I take home on SSDI every month. As it is soon I’m going to have to decide on either my immunosuppressent meds plus other meds I’m on to continue with living or food.
What’s going on with this Country/World.
9
Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't a doctor's note suffice? SSA could even direct recipients to certain trusted doctors for an evaluation. Is this already a requirement? If so, in what ways is it not sufficient? And is SSA proposing to use public social media information or private posts and photographs?
@Jmart - To qualify for SSD, you have to present lots of medical information plus a letter from one or more doctors detailing the extent of the disability, and then you have to be seen by a SSD disability physician whose sole job is to weed out the fakers. Then you have to present a doctor's letter and fill out an extensive questionnaire every year to re-certify. The questionnaire starts with the premise that of course you're better by now and can return to work. It doesn't work well for people with chronic or progressive diseases.
5
We would get a better return on our dollar by auditing tax returns for wealthy people. If that's too big a group, just release the returns from those that have taken tax breaks.In fact make them public so that ordinary people can report on inaccuracies. Why should people with disabilities be snooped on but not those who benefit the most form our system of government, billionaires.
8
One way SS discourages people from clai ming disability is to first deny 100% of all first claim submissions and then dragging out the appeal process, regardless of the circumstances or merits. They know that a percentage of legitimate claimants will walk away unable to pursue the claim due to their medical or health circumstances. This saves the system untold millions while truly needy people go without.
Further, regardless of one's income prior to the claim, if one is capable of only earning minimum wage through some pity make-work position, disability is denied.
3
I help and have helped dozens of people on SSDI and There is definitely fraud being committed. It’s probably a low % but I do think it needs to be looked at. Even if it is not fraud, we have to wonder if SSDI can actually prevent recovery. Most people on disability tell me they can’t work or their payments go down - why would they work if they don’t get a net monetary benefit? We have to find a good way to balance disability and recovery. I simply don’t trust this government to do it right. Social media is not reliable evidence most of the time, but I suppose it can be in some circumstances.
2
This sounds like something that hits diminished return right out of the gate. Honestly, how many people do they think this approach will catch? And is there a Facebook spy plan to nail doctors who abuse the Medicare system? That's where the real fraud money is.
2
As a Social Worker who works with severely disabled and dying people, the idea that the Government can look at the social media is absolutely outrageous! I am not saying that there aren't people who take advantage. It is my experience, though, that many disabled people are isolated and unable to get out on a regular basis. Social Media helps bridge some of that gap! People who are applying for disability or who are on disability are not CRIMINALS!
5
Some are....
Looking at social media will catch only the most obvious frauds. The people who investigate disability claims know that many disabilities wax and wane. They also know that people post to social media only when they are seen at their very best. I trust that the investigators will use social media judiciously, given the nature of the disability that is claimed. If the SS administration believes that it is worth the time/expense of having employees search social media, that’s what they should do. And yes, we should also fund the IRS better to catch the wealthy tax cheats. And someone needs to keep a closer eye on how the Pentagon spends its money.
The issue of making one's settings private is not addressed- this should be a basic question in coverage like this- is the government demanding to see my private posts, and if so what does Zuck plan to do about this?
2
The next step is having the NSA spy on Trump's so-called Enemies of the State, Political Opposition and everyone else Trump and the Republicans don't like. This is what the Totalitarian State looks like. This is not democracy!
2
Fraud is rampant in these programs. Most here seem to think it would be a shame to catch it!
I don't know how many people I have had apply to work on my farm who said they needed to get paid cash so they could stay on disability. More common than most people know.
Of all people liberal should be the most outraged about fraud as it undercuts normal peoples support for a worthy program.
It's a real crime they are not.
3
Just wondering. Is it fraudulent disability when you have always been on disability and don't know why? During the years I served as a Guardian ad Litem in the NC court system, two of the parents I dealt with lived off disability checks, didn't seemed disabled, and didn't know why they got them. FWIW.
2
I know a couple of people who would qualify, and they're both extremely conservative Republicans.
"More than 10 million people receive Social Security disability insurance benefits totaling more than $11 billion a month." That does not make sense!
Well, if we spent a billon dollars more on IRS agents looking at the tax records of people like the Trump family, we would undoubtedly find the corruption in the tax system that allowed Trumps to skate.
Or sure, we could harass a lot of very poor people, who don't vote for Trump, so I wonder just how we will go?
Hugh
3
my CFO wife's company just resolved a disability case. employee claimed he fell off a ladder in the warehouse. company had video of him working on the ladder, climbing down, pushing the ladder over, laying on the floor and then calling for help. he didnt know there was a camera there. disability case thrown out. why would the use of social media be any different in this case? and if you're not smart enough to not post yourself performing physical activities when you're supposed to be disabled, then you deserve to be caught.
6
It's always upsetting when corrupt people go after the most vulnerable in society rather than clean up their own act.
6
I have nearly a dozen neighbors who are on SSDI. Three of them actually need it and the other 9 could work. One of them is blatantly abusing the system. He bought a dilapidated house next door to me and paid cash for it with the lump sum he got way back when. He has since cut down all the trees in the yard with a chainsaw, stump grinder. Built wood fencing around the entire property digging fence post holes by hand. Laid patio stone in backyard. Built wood porches front and back. Built an addition on the back of the house. Put a new metal roof on the house. Remodeled the entire interior. Does all his own mechanical repairs on three vehicles he owns. He did all this by himself to save money. I periodically take videos of him kneeling climbing etc with my cell phone if I happen to see him. I have over 40 videos and I only catch him periodically, a fraction of what he does. Then he has the audacity to have friends over and party out in his backyard until 2 am drinking and dancing. He is an immigrant that came over from Nicaragua and apparently work long enough to get his work credits and citizenship. He is nearly 50 and has a much younger girlfriend also from Nicaragua no citizenship, but green card. They have two little children. She works long enough and earns enough to claim earned income credit for the children. He is collecting disability for the two children. It is very difficult to turn him, in more difficult than it needs to be.
3
Trump has a simple solution if he wants to cut the number of people on federal disability - ensure universal health insurance coverage. As a doctor I have seen hundreds of my uninsured patients apply for disability just so they can get medical insurance to fix what ails them - their bad spine, arthritic knee, terrible carpal tunnel. Most cannot work before their problem is fixed but can work after.
3
Very typical. Don't focus on the corruption of those in charge, instead focus on catching the little guy.
5
As a physician who sees patients daily I can tell you that the vast majority of people claiming to be ‘diabled’ are absolutely able bodied. There are huge amounts of fraud which hurt truly disabled people the most.
2
Social media posts and other on-line information can be very useful for exposing fraud.
My wife was involved in a car accident (her fault, no argument).
The other driver ended up suing our insurance company and us, indicating long term physical damage to her person.
For my own interest, I started "googling" the victim and found she'd been running post-crash half marathon's with sub-1:50 times (fast) and then found a post-crash wedding picture of her on her sister's Facebook page where she's in her wedding dress on a beach laughing and carrying her large husband on her back!!!
I forwarded that information to our insurance company.
That was a few years ago. Haven't heard anything about it since.
“Just because someone posted a photograph of them golfing or going fishing in February of 2019 does not mean that the activity occurred in 2019.”
If the person has been collecting disability for five years, I can say with 100% certainty that the person has been defrauding social security.
1
Why can’t someone on disability go fishing? Are disabled people supposed to lie in bed all day?
3
Another reason to avoid social media.
4
https://abcnews.go.com/US/catching-social-security-disability-fraudsters-act/story?id=23658204. ABC News reported a $340 Million in fraud in one fiscal year. This is money that should have gone to people who were legitimately disabled.
If there is evidence--whether on FB or other social media--the posters who claim SS benefits should be held to account.
Nobody who is actually disabled will have a thing to worry about. Only the scammers will have to worry (and raise your hand if you don't know people who scam one system or another).
1
@Dan - Do you know how many disabilities aren't visible in a still photo? My husband had Parkinson's. A still photo wouldn't show his violent tremor, it wouldn't show his Parkinson's Dementia, it wouldn't show his great difficulty in walking. There are millions of other people whose disabilities don't show in a photo.
106
@MegWright
Who said that a "still photo" was being used as sufficient evidence of the absence of a disability?
But a "still photo" can show that some people are clearly not disabled although they claim to be. Someone with a back injury playing tennis?
There are many people who game systems that are designed to help those in need. Those who game the system need to be weeded out so there is adequate money for those who truly need it.
A photo on Facebook is not necessary and sufficient evidence of fraud, but it provides information that can be explored.
And, as I said, raise your hand if you don't know anybody (or in fact many people), who doesn't game the system put into place to help people.
@Dan I don't know any scammers, but I do know that my neighbor wasted away and died while appealing his denial. He would have died homeless if we hadn't taken him in.
1
Do you really think the only thing the Trump administration will look at is disability beneficiaries and not, say, those writing negative posts about Trump?
4
Facebook once again shows us it is not a trustworthy guardian of anyone's private information. When will people learn that they will give,sell or barter away anything that users tell them, if there"s something in it for FB?
4
There are doctors working with disability lawyers who specialize in getting payments for people. It's big business. I once lived in a small town (pop. 800) where 80% of the men collected disability of one kind or another. They knew all the tricks to getting approved, and which lawyers and doctors to see. I suspect that there are many communities across America with limited employment opportunities where you'd find lots of disability fraud. I had a criminal brother-in-law who finagled 100% disability for himself ($3,000/month), then continued to work fixing cars. He also perpetrated several insurance scams to make extra money. Quite a guy. Judging from the few people I've known, the system is easy to scam.
1
i practiced law for a long time and know many attorneys who specialize in disability "law". this is the aspect of social security that will bankrupt the system. i'm led to believe that over 1/2 of ss disability claims are bogus or the result of an intentional accident. there's no shortage of doctors and lawyers willing to play ball. however bad you may think the system is, it's much worse.
1
Social media data is information voluntarily made public. If it’s ok to check private medical records, it doesn’t seem odd to me to check public records to see if disability claims are legitimate.
42
@Tim Mosk
Speaking of legitimacy, it seem BIZARRE that anyone in his or her right mind would consider claims on Facebook constitute evidence.
34
@Tim Mosk. I am in total agreement with you Tim, if you draw SSDI there should be no problem with proving that that your disability is in fact true. This is the biggest ripoff in our country
An image of someone in a wheelchair is not a determining factor if one can obtain SSDI or not. An image of someone walking or typing on a social platform is not an indication of disability. For SSA purposes, extremely complex and strict criteria are needed - often costing tens of thousands in tests and copious medical tests. One has to NOT be able to work for week after week, year after year, or is expected to die to lack of functionality in organ (often multiple) systems. If you search on the SSA website one can see how demanding and exacting the criteria are.
And the payout - after one has paid into this system if one has worked is minuscule against what most pay into it.
As well, for some it is NOT "ok" to check private medical records. Of course with SSA these medical reports are sent in to determine status - and usually most have to go before a judge, as it seems the Government does not want to pay. Again this money is taken out of every working person's paycheck - it is YOUR money.
8
Insurance companies have hired investigators for many years to follow claimants to look into claims such as workmens compensation. I don't see this any different.
3
The initial approval rate for disability claims has always been around 35%. If you are denied and request a hearing you have better than a 50/50 chance of being approved.
The Social Security Inspector General has been secretly filming disability beneficiaries since portable video equipment has existed. They don't do this routinely, usually when a member of the public contacts SSA to report possible fraud. Even in cases when beneficiaries have been caught red handed climbing ladders, etc., they still, on occasion, have not lost their benefits.
One would think that if SSA gets a report of possible fraud, checking social media pictures would be a helpful tool in determining which cases to pursue.
2
If there is a backlog of cases winding there way through the disability adjudication system than the logical response would be to hire more administrative law judges to adjudicate the claims. Nobody who is knowledgeable about court hearings would willingly submit to having their matter heard via video conference - it's a markedly inferior system, which does not provide the full range of information and insight one would gain in an in-person conference.
Re surveillance of social media posts, I suppose some of that is inevitable, as occurs when employers do research on job applicants. Social media posts tend to have more prejudicial impact than probative value, however, as people often curate their lives to show themselves at their happiest and most active, and may reveal political opinions that governmental investigators or political appointees find offensive.
1
"Beneficiaries have paid into the system through payroll taxes."
And most beneficiaries who claim disability will receive far more in benefits than they have paid into the system. This goes for the average retiree as well.
7
@Ed No not anymore, don't really know about disability payments but people retiring now will be paying more into the system than they will ever get back.
This seems to me to be making a mountain out of a mole hill. Will there always be people who take advantage of the system? Yes, but spending more time and more money on searching through facebook to find fraudsters is not a solution but an excuse to limit access to more people. This serves nothing more than perpetuating long term cycles of poverty on people who are already struggling either mentally or physically.
12
sorry but it has to do with catching fraudulent claims
Here in rural Virginia daytime cable TV is full of ads from lawyers for SSI disability cases. They almost promise success and mention doctors are provided! It this so different from the bankers who promoted 'liar loans' to poor Americans and nearly wrecked the economy? Verifying disabilities using social media seems to be a low cost way to fight fraud!
12
They’re on disability because our economy is broken, many of them will never find another job. Neither the goons trolling for pictures or the Trump Administration that relies on these people for votes have an iota of understanding how things work.
6
they are on disability because they actually are disabled, or they are fraudsters trying to beat the system.
There is nothing wrong with this. Stealing is stealing, whether you steal from the Federal Government or your neighbor. I know several people who are "disabled" but running businesses. These cheats should be caught and get jail time.
10
Another strong reason to not involve oneself with the disgusting, oftentimes evilness of social media, including FB.
5
Many people live totally fictional lives on Facebook. Only a simpleton like Trump would attempt to use it for the purposes above.
8
What could possibly go wrong? Scrutinize posts to see who I back politically, then send out agents? Very slippery slope.
11
Is it the fake disability people we should fear?I’m more scared of fake billionaires, the perpetrators of massive fraud.
7
I could just see Trump and Wilbur Ross cackling, "Oh, goody! More money for me!"
9
OK, who authorized this teaser line?
“If you’re on federal disability payments and on Facebook, be careful what you post. Uncle Sam wants to watch.”
Implicit warning to cheaters?
How do we decide how to spend our enforcement money? How heinous the crime? How close to home it hits? ROI?
This appears to be totally driven by politics, by an emotional response to folks in our socioeconomic class getting away with something.
It would appear that devoting resources to catching the Manaforts of America would be far more productive!
I find I tend to dismiss this as just more of Trump ginning up faux outrage for his base.
6
It may be more profitable to check out which doctors are recommending people for disability insurance. Don't all states require a competent MD to sign off for every participant?
5
Anything that costs $11 BILLION a month should be highly scrutinized.
4
Perhaps if the president wants this action to be undertaken, he won't mind if the same verification process occurs when he files property insurance claims?
14
My wife was on Ssdi before she past and as noted by others it is not easy to obtain these benefits. Your always turned down the first time and it can take up to a year to receive any back money and get into the system. Imagine trying to live, unable to work and not having any income coming in.
I worked for a time as an investigator and saw many individuals trying to scam the insurance companies but none of these people were on ssdi. It has been my experience that those who finally get their benefits truly deserve them.
9
I don't think that social media is the right way to determine if a person is disabled --- pictures on Facebook or Twitter are often what a person wants us to see and not necessarily what is actually going on in their life.
I have worked for attorneys who have hired private investigators to follow a person around to detail their day to day activities. I think that is the best way to point out fraud, but ultimately very costly.
1
that's why the social media evidence should produce an investigation and then a determination
Didn’t Ivanka state just last week that Americans don’t want guaranteed support?
It’s disheartening when our government withholds benefits to the very citizens that created this fund.
1
If disability is confirmed by a persistent inability to perform job requirements, the most frightening example is apparent in the U.S. Congress, based on decades of its abysmally low public approval ratings and the animosities it so often promotes.
Since Congress is elected by that same public, it would appear the situation is a product of a collectively dysfunctional culture. Clinical analysis may point to a national epidemic of passive aggressive personality disorder.
Paraphrasing a line from novelist Lawrence Sanders, "Too many of us are children of darkness who stumble through the night, trying to invent the story of our lives."
Perhaps those who reach out through the gloom to touch one another with compassion might lead us to a better, brighter place.
4
Five years of chemotherapy for lymphoma and then contracting tuberculosis due to poor immunity left my body ravaged. Was completely bed ridden for a time, even had to give up a work-from-home position.
But on Diwali last year, the one festival I wait for all year, I got my mother to doll me up in a grand saree and jewelry. The photos look great. You can't see how it took an hour for Mom to drape a saree over my nearly limp body. You can't see how after just posing for a couple of photos, I lay down in all that silk - because I was too exhausted to change and not because I am too rich to care.
It would be sad if those photos, my trophies of resilience and revolt in the face of adversity, would be held up as proof of fraud.
Do hope there will be deeper, informed investigation than just relying on photos.
18
Interesting that the conservatives, usually so very concerned about preventing government intrusion into people's lives is suddenly so ok with it if they think someone is trying to get help from the government.
As to Mr. Mulvaney's comment that disability isn't the thing people think about in terms of Social Security: he may be right that it is not the 1st thing that comes to mind, but most people know it is there. They also plan to count on it should the need arise. Mulvaney seems to suggest that disability insurance doesn't matter to average Americans. While they may not want to think about the possibility of needing it, they certainly want that safety net there in case they do.
16
“Social media sites are not exactly clear and reliable evidence,” Mr. Astrue, who stepped down six years ago, said at a Senate hearing in 2012. “Facebook puts up phony websites under my name all the time.”
huh?
3
I have no doubt that the cost of Social Security fraud has been dwarfed by Trump’s ridiculously out of control spending on ignorance-based projects that would ruin America, divide the populace and line his own pockets. How much are we paying for Trump’s death camps for children? Or the latest downgrade of his precious imaginary wall? Or his many, many trips to Mar a Lago?
And the closer Mueller gets to releasing his report, the more expensive Trump’s desperate fantasies become.
11
Having spent nearly 30 years as a professional psychologist evaluating disability claims and having interviewed literally thousands of applicants, I find this sort of proposal to be both misguided and chilling.
I know of many folks whose social media activities is their only place to feel safe interacting with others, for instance. People who can't leave home without having panic attacks will write to people and present themselves as happy. Others do show old pics of themselves, before their injuries.
While it is certainly true that a small proportion of applicants are always going to try to get benefits fraudulently, it's important to keep our own mental balance in thinking about that. For every person doing that, in my experience, there may be many more who desperately need disability assistance, but who are repeatedly denied in part due to overly skeptical and even paranoid distrust of their reports of their illnesses. As in criminal justice, we must ask ourselves which error society wants to make: letting a few bad actors slip through, or being so cynical that we doom thousands of people to homelessness and literally, unnecessary premature deaths because of our reluctance to be realistic.
24
An acquaintance was nabbed by his state employer recently after posting pictures of himself kayaking in Puerto Rico, when he was supposed to be sitting home on workman's compensation.
Unfortunately there is a lot of abuse in the system, and I was glad to see him get caught. However, I can't agree with the method.
3
Define a "lot". Research indicates it's under 5%. In terms of real dollars, many millions less than we as taxpayers are "giving" as corporate welfare.
7
@Anne Hajduk Where I worked, it is an enormous problem. Large number of employees do the majority of their state career from the comfort of their own couch. A minor injury takes them out of work for close to a year, at 100% pay. No tax, if I remember correctly. Between that and supplemental insurance, they make more cheating the system than they do being honest.
I applaud stopping real fraudsters, but you cannot necessarily tell fakery by pictures of activities. I have an ex-Soldier buddy for example that is 100% disabled. The physical wounds from the IED that you can see are long healed.
10
Evangelical Conservative Republican America - with the old, poor, sick, infirm, needy, disadvantaged and not white being discriminated, hounded, slighted, disenfranchised, excluded, demonized and ostracized with, they do allege, God's tacit blessings - where lies are the currency of the realm and superstitious myths supplant scientific truths.
6
Friends son injured in an oilfield accident. Has been on disability for 3 decades. He hunts and fishes probably 4 days a week. He’s a scammer, and I hope he gets caught.
6
As a landlord, I can tell you another easy way to catch SS Disability claimants who are defrauding the system: Simply advertise a well-appointed, attractively priced second-floor apartment in a modest middle-class neighborhood in any city with a population over 100,000. You will get a dozen calls a day. When the callers arrive to view the apartment, many will do so in late model SUVs. They will bound up the stairs and complain if the bedroom is too small for a king-sized bed. These people are clearly able-bodied and able to work. And to show that they are financially qualified, many will readily volunteer information about other sources of income - jobs, home businesses, etc. - that SS does not know about.
One of our tenants - a middle-aged woman - had a boyfriend move in with her. When they eventually left the apartment, the boyfriend left behind his SS Disability paperwork on the kitchen table. It showed that he had been receiving benefits due to hemorrhoids. We had met him many times and he never appeared disabled in any way. We had to wonder whether his claim was exaggerated, and also whether some doctors are too lax in certifying a patient as disabled.
I am all for having the government provide assistance to those who are truly in need, but there is clearly a great deal of fraud occurring, and it would not be difficult to root out and eliminate much of it.
9
@SL
It seems to me like a lot of people are aware of, or once saw an incident suggesting, ONE PERSON who may have been abusing the system, and from that you announce confidently that "there is clearly a great deal of fraud occurring." Doesn't really hold water.
12
Like Trump University or multiple other for-profit "colleges." I hope you're equally if not much more offended by that fraud.
2
Yet another reason to just say no to social media, unless, of course, you do so pseudonymously.
2
Unfortunately, for the truly disabled, it has become a scam for far too many--like the "Disabled Placard" explosion aplenty in San Francisco, seems to come with the purchase of a black Mercedes.
2
Maybe they could take the time and money they’re spending on this and audit a few more corporations paying ZERO in taxes, or dig up a few more papers from the Panama Papers and find some more billionaires hiding money in offshore accounts.
6
In legal personal injury, both sides of the bench have been monitoring social media since the first post was made. It is not much different than surveillance. Information from social media alone does not determine the outcome of a matter. If there are posts that are questionable, the person is given an opportunity to explain. There is no privacy when using social media - read the TOS.
2
We pay millions a year so that Trump can go golfing and hus family can take vacations, we paid billions a year for unnecessary bombs. We lose hundreds of millions because he and his ilk evade taxes. Why don’t we go after that kind of waste and fraud?
15
Remember the NYC firefighter years ago who, while he was colllecting disability for a heart condition, won the race up the 1576 stairs of the Empire State Building?
5
Let’s see your tax returns first, Donald.
6
If you are able to throw a frisbee with your children on a sunny afternoon despite sitting in a wheelchair for a decade or two, you should probably be able to work full time, in a conservative society.
In a civilized society we go after the real thughs, not disabled and elderly.
6
I am disabled due to an autoimmune disease that’s slowly eating its way though me. I had a job and pushed myself hard to keep it. My job was 80 miles a day round trip from home to office. If I told people I was sick I was accused of being lazy. I have an invisible disease. There is no stamp on my head that says DISABLED. Believe me I would love to work as disability doesn’t pay enough for me to have a somewhat decent standard of living. I better remove the picture I posted of me dancing at my sister’s wedding 7 years ago before the disease became apparent. I’ll have to go thru my posts that stated I did something physical as it could be misinterpreted as healthy movement. What the heck. I should close down my account especially the forum with others who have the same disease. This forum only helps people cope with the disease as we share helpful information about the disease further isolating me from the ‘normal’ people.
11
A solution seeking a problem. Typical. Delete your account, it is liberating.
6
This is really complex. I know from my work experience that there is a ton of abuse of SSI by people who just don't feel like working anymore or else couldn't find work during the recession, gave up trying and went for SSI . By the time one hits middle-age, especially if someone smokes, drinks, eats poorly, is overweight and sedentary, they often do accumulate injuries or conditions that can be used to qualify for benefits.
The benefits that are paid out are pretty low overall. It's not rich people for the most part that would think that a life spent on SSI would be desirable but mostly lower income people with lousy low wage jobs.
I saw a fair amount of fraud. I also saw people who were mentally and physically unable to work getting turned down for benefits again and again.
That said, we have created a system that really dis-incentivizes people from trying to get off of SSI if they can. The amount they can earn without losing benefits is so low. For someone who doesn't know if in fact they can do it, keep a job, manage to work f/t, the thought of giving up SSI is just too scary. This is how we trap people.
I know someone who would love to get off of SSI and he's young enough to still build a career but he's too scared to do so. As soon as he tries to earn any money he starts getting all sorts of benefit cuts. He believes he would be worse off and he might be right. That, coupled with unimaginative and unhelpful Vocational Rehab workers traps so many.
8
@Greenie
" The amount they can earn without losing benefits is so low."
This bears repeating. It's not that benefits from SSI are so great that they entice people not to work. It's more often that what the same person could earn working is so low.
6
@DW So that makes stealing ok?
@DW
My point was that if they try to start working again they lose benefits right away which is a real disincentive to working. Many who are currently on disability would like to find a way off but they take a big hit financially as soon as they try to earn any money.
2
This doesn't really move the needle much. Facebook has always had a free sharing relationship with the NSA. Where were the outcries about "1984" then? When you invite one bug into your life, you should expect more to come in.
So wait, the spineless GOP won't subpoena the President's tax returns, but are willing to go after the disabled who may be at risk of losing benefits by posting a happy face on Facebook??!! Yeah, I get it, nobody likes tax dollars to be ripped off. If only it that was demonstrated from the top down.
9
I don’t see anything wrong with checking people’s social media. People who work sacrifice their time and effort to create a functioning economy. If you want to live at the taxpayer’s expense, you must also sacrifice something - in this case, privacy. Since the Democrats are now embracing socialism, let me remind you that the motto of socialism is not “everything for free” but “From everybody according to their abilities, to everybody according to their needs”. Unless you are in a coma, you can do something for the community like picking up trash or sweeping sidewalks. I would be on board with instituting a mandatory work requirement for every disability recipient. At the very least, physical labor may reduce obesity rates, which seem to me the main driver of disability in the US.
4
@Mor
This is a very ignorant post altogether, but this in particular made me laugh:
"People who work sacrifice their time and effort to create a functioning economy"
You seem to think that people who work don't often spend time on Facebook during working hours. Ha.
6
@DW it doesn’t matter how they spend their time as long as they create value. And work is not just an economic but a psychological requirement. It creates a sense of self-worth, gives you an identity and a place on society. I know how welfare systems work in Europe. People who are on the dole, whether for health reasons or not, are disaffected, depressed, and often suffering from psychosomatic disorders. From what I have seen of disability recipients in the US, most of them would greatly benefit from feeling they contribute to the community.
@Mor: The concept of disability is that one is disabled, and therefore cannot work. Instituting a work requirement for disabled persons is misguided at best and cruel at worst.
3
So, the Trump administration wants to create another layer of government to peruse Facebook posts but rails against the Federal government insuring all Americans truly have the right to vote?
Hatred is too mild a description for what I feel about Republicans who support this lunacy.
6
When will people be smart enough to realize that social media is public not private? While I can certainly see the Trump admin making this a draconian and inept measure to simply bully people off of even applying for SSDI, the basic idea seems to have some merit in my mind.
Certainly investigators should differentiate between someone who doesn't look sick versus someone who's participating in an activity they clearly couldn't do with the condition they claim to have. In other words if you say you're bedridden with back pain but there's a video of you jumping on a trampoline, that should be cause for an investigation. However, if your disability is mental illness, taking a walk on a beach shouldn't be cause for an investigation. At the end of the day, social media shouldn't be used as more than a clue though. Determinations of actual disability should be left to the appropriate medical professionals.
1
@JP
There are going to be cases where someone who is supposedly bedridden with back pain is shown jumping on a trampoline just yesterday. But there are going to be far more cases that are not clear cut.
This is at best an enormous boondoggle. The amount of time and energy (i.e., money) that would have to be spent to do it right is absurd. So, when was that picture on the trampoline actually taken? Does it even claim to be a recent photo of the person whose Facebook page it's on? Are investigators going to require forensic evidence as to the date and provenance of every supposedly incriminating photo? Speaking of fraud, that's going to spark a whole new cottage industry of Facebook reputation crafting (as if reputation crafting weren't the point of Facebook in the first place).
For anyone who hasn't noticed, many things posted on Facebook don't exactly reflect current reality. How often have you peered at someone's cover photo on Facebook and realized it had to have been taken ten years ago at best?
2
Who among us actually shows the true "us" on social media?
1
Suggestion:
If you're collecting Social Security disability payments, don't post pictures of yourself playing golf -- on Facebook or anywhere else. Better yet, if you play golf, consider whether you really should be collecting disability payments.
3
Disability Benefits and Workers Compensation are necessary and well intended. Unfortunately the cost of both of these benefits is substantially inflated by fraudulent claims and medical professionals who believe that deep pocketed insurance can handle marginal or untrue claims. (side comment, greed is not just the affliction of corporations and the wealthy). The truth is that everyone pays for this. So rooting out fraud is in everyone's interest.
1
What about people who get SSI for anxiety? A huge percentage of teens are claiming severe anxiety, something like 20%, and I know one who gets SSI for it. I'm sure she wasn't faking her disabling anxiety but its not clear if she is disabled for life and she is "doing a lot better." If she gets a job, she will lose her SSI and probably won't be able to requalify.
@Kay Sieverding - You can't get SSDI for anxiety. The person you describe is undoubtedly on SSI (Supplemental Security income), which is totally separate from SSDI. It's paid for out of the general fund, not out of SS funds, and has different eligibility requirements.
Don't use your real name on social media. Or photo. Pick one from a stock photo outfit.
$3.4 billion being paid to individuals who work is not chump change. This is being portrayed as a Social Security cut, when in fact it is an effort to reduce fraud.
2
The President who believes dictators without question wants his administration to infiltrate the personal lives of its own people, suspecting that they must be abusing government benefits that were created to help people in need. When do we say no to this abusive man?
7
I wish the government would spend more time and money investigating tax fraud. Millions were lost on Manafort and who knows how much more on other high rollers.
This idea that the poor people are soaking the Government pales when you realize the poor are stealing hundreds of dollars while the rich are stealing millions.
6
I could be telling tales out of school, but I recall an episode of "This American Life" profiling the misuse of disability claims. It was much more prevalent in the South and Appalachian states as I recall. Might Trump be attacking his own voters?
6
I have no qualm as I have a progressive neurological disease which was approved by SSDI on my first submission. I mourn what i could do but am grateful for such benefits.
Besides, I chose not to have an internet presence. It's just not my thing.
3
There is much more fraud in our tax system. If you want to save money, hire more IRS employees. They tend to make the country more money than they cost, but the IRS is still very underfunded.
If a disabled person is having a good day, and manages to enjoy a hobby or exercise, I say more power to them. What doesn’t get posted on Facebook is the bad days.
9
The UK already does this. As a person with mulyiple legitimate disabilities, I approve of finding "disability" fraudsters. People who scam the disability benefits system by falsy claiming to be disabled are defrauding the government and the rest of us who follow the rules just like any other fraudster would.
6
Watch “Judge Judy” long enough and you’ll see entire families (eg: a couple, his sister, her husband etc) who’ve NEVER contributed to the system, falsely receiving disability payments. Scamming the Country with claims of disabilities that, if real, would prevent them from even traveling and appearing on the show. They practically admit to the scams on National TV.
5
I was just thinking; for years many of us have claimed Trump was crazy because he did more harm than good and because he is a danger to others. But he's highly functioning in crazy ways and has been on the verge of genocide of people who need health care and food by denying them aid. So what do you think about someone who is highly functioning because he is not drugged but is still doing crazy things and presenting as dangerous to others? He plays golf, he uses Twitter incessantly. He commands the media even figuratively owning the FOX News network. He need only look at himself to decide whether one who is the best judge of themselves is truly disabled and needs help. But Trump is incapable of empathizing with others. He's a predator. Do you remember him prowling around Hillary Clinton in the last debate? He lacks self control. He continually picks out segments of society here and around the world to hate while he admires other predators. Now he is endangering the truly needy disabled with a blanket political investigation when such a decision should be the purview of trained medical professionals.
3
Why is it that Democrats want to protect Social Security fraudsters? It must be because they know that those fraudsters tend to vote for the party that is weak on punishment. Same as with the Democrats being in favor of "undocumented aliens" -- knowing that they (whether legally, after being given citizenship or illegally in the meantime) will tend to vote for the party that supports them.
5
Fraud in the Social Security Disability Program is rampant, especially in red states like Kentucky, W. Virginia, and much of the south. It is the new unemployment insurance/pension.
11
@Jim Tagley: That's a pretty broad brush with which you're painting.
1
How they cannot see that SSDI is part of Social Security is mystifying. For most the prospect of having to rely on SSDI as income would be terrifying. It’s always the programs that help the poor and the little guy that Trump goes after.
7
Those who are abusing the system deserve to be caught and stopped. FYI, Facebook is not the preferred media of young people today; it's Instagram and Snapchat, so be sure to monitor those as well. I daresay the vast majority of people on disability are deserving of it.
5
I'm half blind (the right half) and the rest is filled to a greater or lesser degree with what essentially looks like TV static. Yet, looking at my face, watching me walk around, or reading my FB posts, Mr. Trump would never know. I mean, if someone wants to release me from liability from all damages (including, say, vehicular homicide)I'd be happy to drive a cement truck through their neighborhood.
3
My neighbor was on fraudulent disability for years. Disability claims should be looked into more closely.
6
You’re actually allowed to work on Social Security disability and make of her $1000 a month. So if someone is working, don’t start calling the authorities. It’s only when they do things that their case says they cannot do. If you have not read the case, then how do you know what they can and can’t do as determined bu their doctors? Sure, there are some egregious cases where people are working full time or they are doing things they stated they could not do. But many complaints about people cheating are based on assumptions and ignorance.
8
Uncle Sam has for decades now launched a hate campaign againt the disabled labeling them all frauds no matter what. Of course living in a country whose gov't hates it's people so much they use every method to keep from paying someone's health care and for MOST of the US we cannot afford the huge prices for private insurance who at every opportunity tries it's best not to pay. The disabled make only hundreds of dollars per month and Uncle Sam thinks that so extravagant that they all but cut off food stamps for the disabled or only grant them $15 per month.
Of course we all know white collar crime especially in politics not only goes largely unpunished but the criminals make good money via our tax dollars but Uncle Sam will never look into their private lives.
4
One day I was riding my bicycle on a path next to a small waterway and a young gentleman road up next to me for a bit.
It's a little unusual to strike up a conversation with a stranger while riding, but, I thought, why not? We began sort of low pressure riding and chatting and eventually I asked him what he did for a living since it was a workday (I had taken a vacation day to ride a pretty fall leaves day).
He said, and, I quote: "I am on SSD and am disabled". I was dumbfounded. A guy who was clearly able to ride along this dirt path with me next to a waterway was collecting SSD.
Social Security was designed for people who pay in to, later, garner a modicum of social security in old age.
It was not designed reward clever lawyers who know how to game the system to get people who don't want to work good pay for no work.
Note, in the above definition of SS it is not about feeling sorry for people who are actually disabled. That is a separate issue completely.
I write to formally recognize that the Social Security System cannot survive payouts to young people who have never paid in any money and it is a very bad idea to overload the system with payouts for no pay-in of any kind.
The sad fact that some folks are truly disabled should not be commingled with Social Security which was not designed for payouts to people who never pay in.
2
Someone riding a bike could still be disabled. They could have disabling anxiety or depression which they are trying to manage by exercise. They could have bipolar disorder that is not under control. They could have any number of autoimmune diseases, or asthma, that have severe flares and make someone unable to work full time. They could have had major payback for that bike ride — payback that you never saw. He could have spent the whole rest of day and next day in bed, just for trying to get out and enjoy a little time outside. Actually, the disability judges account for these things when they evaluate your case.
I have ME/CFS and am on disability. I spend most of every day in bed but sometimes leave the house for an hour to have coffee or lunch. This is not easy for me and is sometimes not even pleasant at the time, or has major payback. But If you spoke to me you would think I was perfectly healthy because my neurological symptoms are not visible, and I can fake acting like I feel normal. Many diseases are invisible. Try to not judge.
9
@Michael - In order to receive SSDI, you have to have worked and paid into the system for the requisite number of quarters. No one gets SSD witout having paid into the system. If someone is on some other kind of disability, they're probably on SSI (Supplemental Security Income) which is totally separate from SS, is paid for out of the general fund, not SS funds, and has different eligibility requirements.
“'It may be difficult to tell when a photograph was taken,' said Lisa D. Ekman, a lawyer who is the chairwoman of the Consortium for Citizens with Disabilities, a coalition of advocacy groups."
Evidently Ms. Ekman has never heard about how each photo posted online has metadata embedded in the photo's properties. If that's the opposition's main objection, they're already defeated.
3
Unless it’s a digital copy of an earlier photo on paper. In that case the metadata would “reveal” when the digital copy was made.
@Jim K.
And prove the cheater was cheating.
So what will happen to those who are on Social Security disability because of, for example, blindness ? They are eligible because of the significant barriers to employing them, and they are thus frequently unemployed or significantly underemployed because of potential employers' negative attitudes. Nevertheless, they may be able to function perfectly well in their off hours using alternative techniques in the physical leisure-time activities about which they post on social media. This administration has shown no ability to recognize such distinctions, with potential threat to economic survival of this segment of the population.
2
I think it is fine to investigate people who are considered to be committing Social Security Fraud. And if people who are found to be fraudulent receiving benefits are punished for fraud. But consider how difficult it is to receive benefits, I doubt many law breakers will be found. It would be interesting to learn how many of those who down disability cases do so fraudulently.
Those who apply these days are told if they reapply 2 or 3 times will likely receive benefits. This is what occurred recently in the case of my stepson who has been diagnosed as being mentally ill.
Is it not possible that applications for disability are turmed
down too often? Seems like that is the case to me.
I think it is hilarious that Trump wants to cut disability for those who play golf etc, too often while on disibility. Sounds like someone I know of who plays golf while failing to do much while serving about President of the United Sates. Guilty conscience Mr. President? Luckily, the prosecutors are more interested in investigating Mr. Trump for fraud in his bank and money laundering deals. Those are much larger dollar amounts than are embezzeled by people on SSI disability.
5
What’s the problem? If they legitimately deserve the largess of the American taxpayer they will get the money. If they are trying to steal, then they won’t. Don’t overthink it.
4
Ironically, if we'd had this kind of scrutiny during the Vietnam War, Trump's claims of bone-spurs might not have kept him from his patriotic duty.
10
@Anthony Davis
Thank you. My cousin served with the Marines, as did his best friend. He made it home; his friend did not. I recall my uncle sending him good boots to avoid trench foot. Then his platoon asked for boots; my uncle got donations from a group he belonged to and sent more boots. In the meantime, I was marching against the war, and sending brownies, cookies etc. to my cousin and his platoon.
1
Do it. Fraud stinks. Those in honest need of the help need not worry about being affected by scrutiny.
7
Not only is this just creepy-- it's shades of Big Brother from 1984-- but it relies on a narrow and very incorrect definition of disability.
There are plenty of people with disabilities or illnesses that vary in severity from day to day, or who may not visibly have a disability. If you don't know whether a given day will have you confined to bed or able to go out and about, I would imagine that working a standard 9-to-5 job would be very difficult. There are also certain conditions that flare up severely for weeks or even months and are at other times manageable or barely even noticeable. I would not, by any stretch, identify as disabled but my joints do have a much higher chance of dislocating; there have been random periods of days or even weeks where one or two things keep popping out of place and I'm in intense discomfort, and then I'll be fine for almost an entire year. I've still gone about my business during those periods, but anything more severe or more frequent would be a significant interruption.
Depriving people of protection based on such a narrow definition of disability (not to mention the fact that people post old pictures all the time on social media) seems foolish and cruel, so I am unfortunately not the least bit surprised that Agent Orange and his swampy underlings are pushing this.
9
I worked as an administrative law judge for Social Security for 10 years and later was with another agency for 20. I think that there is no magic to the non-adversarial process that SSA uses to determine disability. For a good lawyer, the process is like shooting fish in a barrel because the proof can be entirely one sided. Moreover, the system is based on state agencies to make the initial and reconsideration determinations and there is no way to reconcile the wide disparity from one state from another. Pity the poor person who applies in a backward state.
3
I wonder how Trump’s many pensioners will take this. So many see eager and willing to pull up the rope ladder after themselves. Are they all equally willing to put their own social media accounts to such scrutiny?
1
I am against the use of Facebook by the government to suss out false claims for the reasons other commenters have given - that people's conditions can vary from day to day, that some disabilities and hidden and they don't look disabled. But I'm also against the use of Facebook generally for it's shifting practices on who has access to your data and why.
1
I've seen a lot of comments here on those who "cheat the system".... as I have a family member who happens to be deaf, I can report first hand on how things are playing out in the Trump administration. This family member has been unable to find full time work, and so supplements the meager monthly SSDI payment with part-time "gig" work. For a couple of months, the income from the gig work went "over the allowable limit" for earning. So, for the first time ever, SSDI with held the checks, leaving my family member high and dry. There may be cheats, but all in all, it's both a safety net and a cruel system for those who need its benefit.
5
Why wouldn't the government look at Facebook posts? Prospective employers have been looking at them for years - better to know what negative information is out there now, rather than be blindsided by it after a person becomes part of the team. That being said, the government shouldn't be able to end disability payments without due process. That is, without telling the recipient what was viewed and asking for an explanation. It is ridiculous to try to claim some sort of privacy interest in materials which one willingly exposes to the whole world.
2
If Social Security wants to go all out to deprive the disabled of constitutional rights it should look to the Supreme Court's ERISA decisions that govern private disability insurance.
Those ERISA decisions allow private insurers to be the judges of cases filed against them, deprive the ERISA disabled of any jury trial right enjoyed by others, disallow meaningful damages against bad faith insurers, bar the disabled from confronting witnesses, indulge stereotypes against the disabled, and treat every disabled person like a criminal, although ERISA insurers commit fraud every day with no penalty. What could be more constitutionally sound than that?
Clearly, the Supreme Court's ERISA Jim Crow against the disabled should be extended to all disabled people nationwide.
1
This is probably not a lot more common than "voter fraud", but remains another unexamined GOP suburban myth, along with welfare Cadillacs. Those who would seek to impose this scrutiny have themselves never gone through the arduous and demeaning process of attempting to get disability payments of any type. The process takes years, valid claims are routinely denied, desperate people are denied multiple times to discourage them reapplying, paperwork is lost and the filer held responsible for submitting incomplete paperwork - which they then don't notify you of until your next visit, wwhich you have to make because you can't get anyone to answer the phone, and when you arrive they claim you can't possibly be disabled...
3
My disability claim took 3-1/2 years to resolve. At one point I was denied because SSI required me to go to their doctor for a mandatory physical exam. I was brought there in a wheelchair but my claim denied because if I was able to get to the doctor I could get to work. Interestingly their doctor supported my claim yet it still was denied.
The entire process was horrid. I needed to sell my possessions, my home and borrow money to support myself until I was finally awarded disability. The process is designed hoping that we die before collecting. Maybe years ago there were those who defrauded the system but with the awful delays and bottlenecks in the process today I can’t fathom how one with a bogus claim would be awarded disability. This social media hurdle sounds like another delay tactic.
7
As someone who is disabled, Facebook helps me connect to the world around me. I hate the idea of feeling like I have to censor what I post. My disability is invisible. I have good days and bad days. Am I expected to post that I needed a four hour nap to function? It's hard enough being disabled and the amount I receive is paltry. Shouldn't we be helping more? Maybe some corporations or billionaires could pitch in? And to all my friends who voted Trump because they were Pro Life; does MY LIFE not matter?
6
Yet white collar crime is pursued and prosecuted at FAR lower rates than decades past. Shows where our priorities lie.
5
I see no problem with using social media to identify SSDI claimants that may appear to be misrepresenting their capabilities as one marker for further investigation. It would be foolish however, to base a rejection of a claim solely on social media evidence. The program is plagued with persons making disability claims solely for economic reasons.
1
How will they know when someone is acting like they are better than they feel? I had a visit with a specialist last week, she walked in the room and said how are you? I said "good". She said yeah, what are you doing here? So, to what degree are they going to use social media to prove someone is involved in fraud? With almost every serious illness, exercise is part of the requirement to maintain health or stop the disease from progression. If someone posts that they had a good work-out does that mean they are not disabled?
1
Yes there is all kinds of waste and fraud in so many of these programs, especially ssid. Few if any dispute that.
I have no problem with them using social media as a place to START an investigation, but not as judge jury and executioner. If someone posts 3-4 things a month that look like fun or that they are physically able, that does not show the whole story of possibly a week being down and suffering after enjoying one fun moment.
I only post good times on Facebook, and am not one to whine, so if I was to be reviewed because I took my kiddos to an aquarium for 2 hours one week, I would never include pictures or comments about the ‘cost’ or toll that would take on my body.
Just like the program has dishonest applicants/recipients, so is there a chance the investigators could be dishonest in one way or another which can lead to abuses of power.
Every single program/profession/group/issue etc has ‘bad apples’; this issue no different!
2
I’ve known a few people who were getting disability when they were capable of working. One guy who claimed a disabling back injury was an avid rower on outrigger canoes. So I’m all for this. If post stuff on social media, you cannot assume that it’s truly private, even if you limit (you think) who can view it.
5
In the book "Supersad true love story" the protagonist doesn't have an Apparaet, a device that is constantly connected to some amorphous social media. This was part of the dystopia described in this otherwise really lovely book.
Soon enough this dystopia will be part of our normal life: What happens if you don't have a social media account? Already, in college application processes recruiters are looking at social media. And now Uncle Sam wants, too? And how about health insurers?
This commenter may not have kids:
"Just another reason to leave [Facebook]"
My son assures me that all young people "left" Facebook long ago. They may still keep their Facebook accounts, but they spend all their social-media time at other websites, such as Instagram. He tells me Facebook is now just for "old people."
1
People who get government benefits are second class citizens spied on by the government. People who have investment income are first class citizens, and their tax returns are not checked very often. But if the government really wants to maximize its money, it would do much better by auditing people with complex tax returns from investment income. Pressuring these people would get a lot more tax income, in addition to providing employment for a few more accountants and lawyers. On the other hand, Big Brothering the disabled will collect peanuts while providing ritual humiliation for some who deserve it and many who dont.
4
We live in a very small town, and there are lots of people on Social Security Disability who aren't disabled at all. The nature of the human animal can be observed on a very scientific basis if your innate personality in a small town, is in checking out everything, from how many people lived together before marriage, and whether they got divorced more often than the others. They didn't! We drove around several years ago, up and down every street, as we have lived in the town over 45 years. I observed the obesity epidemic start when women went to work, and put dozens of frozen pizzas on the conveyor belt with lots of soda over 4 decades ago because they needed a quick meal several times a week. It happened slowly but surely, and they also started eating out often, also. You don't need graduate students who have no observation skills sitting in a room at a college to find out things like this, and then paying them, too, when all the government would have to do, is hire people who are smart, and live in small towns, but of course the truth would not hold up scientifically in their world. The truth is the government said that it is easier to give people a disability than hire a lawyer to fight each one. Welcome to the modern world of lawyers, isn't it great, and larger government bureaucracies, we need more of both, don't we?
5
Re:
“It may be difficult to tell when a photograph was taken,” said Lisa D. Ekman, a lawyer who is the chairwoman of the Consortium for Citizens with Disabilities, a coalition of advocacy groups. “Just because someone posted a photograph of them golfing or going fishing in February of 2019 does not mean that the activity occurred in 2019.”
Digital photographs have metadata embedded that show the camera, the time/date and in some cases gps location. If that data is not scrubbed it could be used. That would not impact scanned photo prints or negatives.
Your camera phone routinely embeds a lot of info about the picture.
1
My uncle was rejected the first time he applied for disability benefits. It took hiring a lawyer for him to finally get accepted for disability. He died from his medical problems not long after he was accepted and began receiving benefits.
10
The real problem with SSDI isn't fraudsters, it's that if one has a serious mental or physical health condition that renders them unable to hold a full-time job, then they may need to apply for SSDI in order to obtain health insurance. SSDI approval can qualify one for Medicare prior to age 65, albeit not for two years. So, note that If someone is scamming, this is not a quick scam.
Because we link health coverage to employment in this country, and employers are not obligated to provide insurance to part-time employees, the system creates a disincentive for people with disabilities to work up to their capacity - be it part-time or intermittently etc- whatever their ability. (Some of these people might even appear suspiciously healthy if viewed via snippets on Facebook but many disabilities are not visible.) In any case, too much work and these folks risk losing Medicare and suffering financial ruin and/or a declining health condition but not enough work and they won't be covered under employer health plans. Many disability beneficiaries, I suspect, would prefer the dignity of working despite their disability but the risks and uncertainties of health-coverage (or lack thereof) and the associated costs loom large.
And for the record, disability payments are pretty small. Most workers could probably make more and live better as part-time workers but for the exorbitant cost of health care.
32
Insurance companies have been doing this for a long time:
"If ... a person claimed benefits because of a back injury but was shown playing golf ... that could be used as evidence that the injury was not disabling."
Decades ago, insurance companies started hiring airplane photographers to spot golfers or tennis players who claim to have been injured. I've never made such a claim. I heard this from an insurance adjuster.
4
I had forgotten that such long-term spying was standard in the insurance industry. The classic film “Double Indemnity” detailed an insurance investigator, played by Edward G Robinson in one of his many outstanding performances, on the trail of a couple of would-be con artists. The similarities end when you stop to consider that Social Security Disability programs are not, by and large, con jobs. Where is any sort of statistical bedrock to show people are cheating SS at budget crushing levels? The government doesn’t need to see social media accounts. They routinely send applicants and recipients alike to federally-paid doctors to confirm or deny disabling conditions. Next come a swarm of examiners, pros who work for Social Security and must be convinced that a person on disability meets a list of standard maladies. Administrative Law judges are a last resort. After going through a process that often stretches several years, the approval rate for permanent disability payments— which average barely more than $1000 a month — is remarkably small. I lose more hope by the day, knowing that we live in a country tumbling into cruelty, warrentless (and Unconstitutional) attacks on privacy and due process, and an eagerness to embrace the authoritarian whims of the the most odious con artist in American history.
3
I have a long time acquaintance with Social Security Disability and can assure you that half the people on disability should not be there. About 40 percent receive benefits for mental impairments that are so vaguely defined that almost anyone could qualify. Others have vague complaints like back pain, fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome that rely primarily upon claimant's allegations of symptoms, not hard diagnostic evidence. I would also say that at least half the claimants are grossly obese, a condition that aggravates their conditions. Finally, in the New York City area, the local District Courts are exceedingly liberal and have many Judges that have NEVER upheld a denial of benefits. The program needs to be drastically revamped so only the truly disabled receive benefits. In it's current state, the program is more like a welfare program.
27
I can appreciate your comments. I’m on disability. I have an invisible chronic illness. You can’t tell I’m sick. I look very healthy. I recently went to the Social Security office to clear up some paperwork. I waited for 3 hours to speak to someone. While waiting I observed many people with noticeable mental illness. I also noticed developmental disabilities. I’m someone who desperately wants to work again. I have some good days and then have days I’m very sick and debilitating fatigue. I’d love to be offered a job at home telecommuting that I can do on my good days. My good days are sometimes a predictable pattern based on my treatments. Chronic illness is a huge burden on our society. There are many people that don’t fit squarely into a diagnosis. Our health care system is plagued with chronically ill people that get sent from doctor to doctor. I cringe when I hear of people milking the system. It ruins it for people that are trying to live their best lives.
5
This is Trump's idea of "draining the swamp". Meanwhile he hasn't done a single thing to help pass the anti-corruption bill the Republican Majority Leader is blocking in the Senate.
40
There should be a serious crackdown. As a physician you would not believe the letters people want me to write letters for.
22
@Allright
I believe you. Lawyers for disability claimants have their clients hound their doctors for such letters and to fill out check lists of symptoms and limitations . The doctors usually give in and complete the letters or forms. They are an exceedingly powerful tool for obtaining benefits, regardless of whether treatment records support the doctor's reporting.
1
As a physician and a liberal, I think people abuse disability as much as the ultra rich try to avoid taxes.
74
@Dave perhaps, but which group, as a whole, gets the most money fraudulently? It is estimated 1 trillion dollars leave the economy due to business fraud. But we don't want to anger businessmen in this government.
2
Just another reason to leave the platform, Big Brother is watching! Recently got a post on a 'local connections' website, Nextdoor, that the NSA was going to start posting alerts. They tried to assure us that this was the only purpose but included the following "...and to receive private communications." In other words, they set up a mechanism through this site for neighbors to report on neighbors in privacy. Every totalitarian state depends on this kind of local participation. I quickly dropped my Nextdoor account, just like, two years ago, I dropped my Facebook account.
10
Maybe we should consider Basic Minimum Income, which might be less expensive. If there are not enough living wage jobs for all, people will resort to whatever help they can get.
Let’s stop punishing people for trying to stay alive, and even enjoying a bit of life.
Social Security disability doesn’t make anyone rich.
22
If we were not letting in millions of people illegally willing to work min wage jobs or less they might pay a nice living wage like in Switzerland.
10
To fix that you punish business owners not employees and the majority of the population. Truth be told the people who take those jobs make up the vast majority of people willing to work them. Immigrants mostly take the jobs no one else will.
2
As an employer of over 2000 people over my lifetime, I’m totally in favor of this. This isn’t a liberal vs conservative issue but a fairness issue. About half of the claims we dealt with were totally bogus. Let’s get rid of the frauds and save the money for the truly disabled
22
In my case, SSA, deliberately entered inaccurate information/data (caught on record), which withheld benefits... How many, like me, fall victims to SSA's "inaccuracies ? SSA's Fraud ? Hard to tell, but it's in the millions of people.
As to were all that "withheld" $ go to? your guess is as good as mine.
10
Disability claims are already monitored when there's reason to think someone is faking their disability. The old fashioned way is physical surveillance. Time consuming and costly. It would be more efficient, on some level, and less time consuming, to monitor social media when there's suspicion of fraud.
Does this mean Trump isn't an abomination? Of course he is. But ask yourself: if President Obama had been behind an initiative to cut down on welfare and disability fraud in the most efficient way possible - saving taxpayer's money in the process - wouldn't most of us have been behind it?
Anyone who has ever had to hire help for an aging parent has encountered applicants who prefer cash under the table because they're working an irregular schedule and and still want or need to collect their welfare or disability payments to make a decent living.
12
@Todd Fox
Any individual who is willing to help care for an aging parent is someone you should be grateful for. So what if cash means they won't jeopardize other payments. If you can afford to hire help, feel fortunate. The individual you are talking about would probably feel fortunate if taking care of an old person wasn't necessary to make ends meet. Perhaps you would prefer paying the going rate for an assisted living placement?
2
There are people who abused the system during the Great Recession. They were too young for Social Security. but too old to get decent jobs.And they were looking at losing everything they worked for all their lives. If their disability claim is illegitimate, that should be rectified. Otherwise let's focus on where the waste, fraud and abuse really is centered: within our dysfunctional medical system, with Big Pharma, Equipment Suppliers and other players having a feeding frenzy at the Medicare--Medicaid, and yes, private insurance trough.
23
Let’s expand this endeavor to surface draft dodgers who claim “bone spurs.” Or narcissists who evade taxes.
74
Today I heard a Republican lawmaker, in rejecting the Democrats electoral reform measure, quote Reagan saying the scariest words are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” And this is the party that wants to investigate SSDI recipients using their social media posts?
17
SSDI fraud is usually detected when the recipient's continuing disability update report does not match with the recipient's Medicare/Medicaid claims.
Moreover, Social Security performs a continuing disability review (CDR) every three (3) years if the recipient is expected to improve. If the recipient is not expected to improve, then Social Security reviews the recipient's situation every seven (7) years.
In short, SSDI is not permanent and is periodically reviewed by the Social Security Administration.
21
@Final Solution
You are simply incorrect. I have a close working knowledge of the Social Security Disability Program. Virtually no one is ever reevaluated for benefits because of budgetary constraints. Virtually everyone who gets on the program stays on for life.
2
The continuing review you speak of is performed by SSA doctors. Most critics of the system think it’s nothing more than a distant bureaucrat who glances at a few records before pounding the rubber stamp that reads DENIED on the file cover. Amazing how little the critics of SSA disability know of the program.
3
@Alex
I started to receive SSDI in 2002 due to a stroke. My first CDR was in 2008. My other CDRs were in 2013 and 2016. My next CDR is scheduled on July, 2019.
The common questions I were asked if I have attended school or been employed and if my health has improved.
However, much of the time of my CDRs was spent on discussing why I had failed to complete my trial periods to test my ability to work.
5
It wouldn’t surprise me if Trump and Mulvaney are confusing Social Security Disability fraud with worker’s comp fraud.
They’d probably confuse pictures of my father with polio in his legs enjoying a swim with an able-bodied person doing the same.
21
As a thirty year former manager of a state Voc. Rehab. Program I can attest that there is a great deal of abuse of the system. Yes, I have caught so called paraplegics walking around spryly at the shopping center.
The amount of abuse varies from state to state depending on values and local employment opportunities.
My career ran from 1970 to 2000. During that time cynicism in the country increased along with abuse of social service programs.
Playing gotcha with grifters is not as effective as looking at the country’s values and addressing the issues of which values we teach to the next generation!
21
I’d like to see mandatory living wages for EVERYONE. It’s not the governments business how you spend your time (or to judge the “legitimacy” of disability) but it is our collective responsibility to provide dignity and purpose to one another by offering work and living allowance to absolutely anyone who needs either or both. We need to flip the script on run-amok capitalism and make the country work for US.
12
@RachelK
Why is it not the government's place to oversee expenditure of government money? Fraudsters should be disclosed by any means possible. They discredit the people who really do need the help. One way to stay free of this avenue of scrutiny is to quit Facebook.
2
@hotGumption
Where was the government when members of the current Administration were ripping off the govt.? Manafort ring a bell? Flynn? Pruitt? Price? Zinke? Add in deVos who ripped off public school funds in Detroit to funnel money into her private "Christian" schools. The current Administration discredits all of us whose taxes support a bunch of grifters. Include some members of Congress in that category; start with Mitch McConnell who just gave the very rich a huge tax gift. No doubt you won't mind paying higher taxes so the top 10% can continue to avoid taxes.
Haven’t we see many TV programs denouncing the ones taking advantage of disability benefits? Is not an entirely bad idea, although it could be the beginning of something more sinister... than just big-brother getting too close to our everyday life.
3
It’s funny how there’s such concern about Social Security fraud, but the IRS is accused of overreach and their budget reduced.
15
YOu have got to be kidding. SSDI benefits don't even pay enough for shelter and food. Plus you pay for part of your medicare which is deducted from what is probably about $1200/mth. And how can you tell from facebook whether someone has a mental illness that prevents them from working? Do we really want to just assume that the majority of disability recipients are just big scam artists? One of my relatives was just cut off from SSDI by a NY Judge because she didn't know she had a hearing. People with such low income levels tend to move around and not have an address. So she didn't get the letter because she'd moved. It's not like the disability section of SS uses modern technology like a computer to tell you you have a hearing either. A cheap cell phone with minutes is sometimes all low income people can use to communicate and ask for help. So what happened to this "lier" of a relative who's just feeding off the system? She became so despondent and unable to do anything that she stopped eating and then she fainted and cracked her head and hurt her back. She was already really ill Now she has no healthcare. She developed sepsis and had complications. Her mom (in her 70's), living on 35K a year and dealing with cancer, over $100K; basically her IRA, to save her daughter's life. so yea..go ahead and look at facebook rather than doing what you should and figuring out a more effective way to care for really desperate people.
29
@MB $750/mo, actually. What a cushy way of life...
11
@MB Heartbreaking stories like this can happen in any government program. No one hearing this story could fail to have profound sympathy. But the average lifetime cost of a beneficiary on SSDI is $300,000 per person. The program is not prudently managed and the benefits that your relative so desperately needs are being imperiled by the many people who should not be included.
@Alex
You know this how? Are you employed by a government Agency to study fraud claims? Perhaps you work in a private enterprise, a university research dept. with a grant to study SSDI fraud? Or, more likely, you are going with anecdotal evidence. A neighbor, or a friend of a friend knows of rampant fraud in the SSDI system. Check out the F35 boondoggle in Vermont; that is some big time fraud, supported by the "common man" Bernie Sanders.
Facebook regularly shows "albums' of all my group photos, of me running races with friends, I now am having ankle problems, (tendon dysfunction) . Would these be used as evidence, if I had this SS?
7
There was an article awhile back about insurance companies looking at social media posts, and also following the insured to golf courses, and gyms.
5
Our workforce participation rate is about 63%, which puts us on par with the WPR of Honduras and other Third-World countries. So disability for many Americans has become their solution to an economy that isn't working for them.
This is why we should all get behind an unconditional Universal Basic Income. "Universal" would mean it's for everyone, whether rich or poor, whether working or unemployed, whether disabled or able-bodied. There would be no forms to fill out, no hoops to jump through, and no social media monitoring required.
So far there's only candidate running on UBI and that's Andrew Yang.
7
So many diversions in past months with the inevitable Mueller investigation getting close to a report. Many people believe that the investigation is independent, but it is not as the final report will go to the hand picked Attorney General Barr who has already made a judgement prior to release of the report. He said that a President could not be indicted for obstructing justice. I have no expectations of justice from Mueller's report. You are all wasting time anticipating. Mueller answers to Barr who answers to Trump. Do you really think the report will resolve anything other than the preceding scapegoats? Trump will likely suppress the report against himself. How many times have people remarked at how crazy Trump is? I wish he would resign and claim he is mentally disabled. It wouldn't be a fraud and it would stop the insanity.
5
Let's be clear, this is sinister.
It's also stupid - fraught with complications.
Consider that social media is basically for bragging - creating a persona, a picture of your life as happy, successful, busy ... active. Filled with parties and tropical vacations. People lie on social media, all the time. Or at least exaggerate.
So you're going to have people in trouble with social security because they posted a picture of themselves water skiing or hang gliding or mountain climbing and the whole thing was wishful thinking anyway.
This'll be a mess.
19
@DW
Then get off Facebook and stop worrying.
Talk about a blatant invasion of privacy. While there are some cases where an apparently recent photo shows some guy playing tennis when he is on a disability, there are many, many people on disability due to some serious mental health issue. Should we monitor them full time with every click on a facebook page?
Pursuing fraud is a good idea. Do it with real people checking up on folks in person and with documented evidence that is supported in court.
6
As I remember ,well,sort of, when Ronald Reagan as Governor of CA wanted to reduce California's mental heath disabled citizens funding ,he stated well if they are healthy enough to show up when you write them for a continued claims examination interview
then maybe they are not nuts. Reagan the Psychiatrist.
7
And it may not be only your physical activities/abilities that bring attention. Years ago, I knew a woman who was on SSID. She was questioned over her activities for our church and involvement with community groups. The case worker thought that if she was able to take minutes or write an article for the newsletter, she was capable of working. I don't know what her disability was. Helping your kid with homework? Baking cookies for a bake sale? well, you must be a slacker- get back to work!
9
Best news from this admin I've heard in 2+ years.
We are all aware of the flagrant SSI abuse (just watch Judge Judy for 5 minutes), however, the retort will say "but these people are so poor and disadvantaged!"
Then they hire Gloria Allred and we'll be right back where we were in 1979.
2
Are there enough living wage jobs for everyone?
2
How many legitimately disabled people are denied benefits now? How many will be denied in the future? And has the government ever thought that a great deal of the disability it considers false might be due to people being unable to find jobs, becoming severely depressed as a result and realizing that no one wants them for anything at all? America does a remarkably lousy job when it comes to these types of situations: people who cannot find work no matter what they do, people who are disabled but want to work and can't because of regulations against earning more than a meager amount of money, and those who are seriously disabled but who can occasionally participate in normal activities.
Trump is not the first president to want to do something about fake claims. He won't be the last. But it would be nice if, instead of inconveniencing those who are truly disabled, a way was found to ensure that those in need of disability payments received them and weren't cut off from them when they earn more than a pittance. If we care about human dignity we'd understand that even disabled people want to contribute if they can.
10
Brilliant. The true frauds will simply get off social media if they’re on it at all. Real ‘fraud’ isn’t that common- Just another solution looking for a problem. One that will allow Trump to gin up his base... except a good portion of those frauds are just as likely Trump voters. And... I seem to recall a certain president committing a similar fraud. Something about ‘bone spurs’ to get out of serving his country?
14
Are people with disabilities no longer people? Must they always put on a show of misery and live their lives in a corner? What happens for those who have disabilities that keep them from working, but maybe not on a cruise with their family? What happens if a friend, family member etc treats them to a handicap accessible vacation and they post photos on social media? I am floored that none of the comments take into account that disabled people are capable of living a life outside of their homes. There are many disabilities, visible and invisible, that may prevent a person from getting employment but not prevent them from otherwise interacting normally with society. Yes, I have actually known a single welfare queen in my life. But for that one person illegitimately seeking benefits, I know tens of others who I see forced to endanger their health by working in pain with debilitating diseases. I know many people who may not physically be able to work in an office - but try to do as much as they can through small businesses. And that’s not enough to pay the bills. People try to post their best lives on social media - don’t police disabled people for not “looking miserable enough”. As for that man on the golf trip - who is to say he played one hole, went back to his wheelchair and watched his friends complete the rest because he wasn’t capable of doing more than that.
46
@LM Thanks for your considered response. Before the ACA, many people filed for SSDI just to get some healthcare--Medicaid. Before Obama required insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions, getting any coverage, even if you were willing to pay out of pocket, was actually impossible for many, many people. Lots of doctors simply would not treat me, for instance, because--to paraphrase one physician--if I found something seriously wrong, in early testing, you wouldn't be able to afford the treatment, so what's the point? I had just turned fifty and did not have unlimited funds. Key phrase: "Is money an issue?" Oh lord. SSDI, which came with Medicaid (not in all states, though) literally saved my life. Twice. All the naysayers here...Scary.
9
I used to play tennis with a lawyer who worked for the EEOC. At the time, the government provided those wishing to claim disability with a lawyer, and that was his job. The opposing lawyers were always showing videos of claimants skiing and shoveling snow, and he lost a lot of cases that way.
Later on, he became an Federal administrative judge and heard the disability cases. His experiences as a lawyer for the claimants made him a trifle cynical about those who wanted to collect disability.
9
We have to be careful about this. I have a dear friend who is on Social Security disability and Medicare because she is a renal patient - she has no kidneys and is on dialysis. Her health is very fragile. However, someone could post of photo of her on social media and someone might not think she is disabled. That being said, I am all for investigating fraud. Frankly I think the focus needs to be on unethical attorneys. As has been stated many people need to get an attorney in order to get disability. I see advertisements from attorneys who state this is all they do. Unfortunately I think there are cases out there where the person could work -but perhaps not the type of work they did previously. I do not want to see anyone who truly needs disability unable to receive assistance. However I really do resent people going on "the check" as some call it, because they are unemployed and this is a fall back income.
6
Your concern for your friend is admirable. However, her disability benefits would not be discontinued merely because she looked good in a Facebook picture. Your friend could presumably provide ample medical evidence showing that she has kidney failure and requires dialysis. The medical evidence is the primary factor in determining disability.
As noted by many commenters already, social media could be helpful ferreting out false claims for disability based on subjective complaints. When reviewing claims based on subjective complaints (certain mental conditions, fibromyalgia, etc.) evaluation of the claimant’s level and range of activity is critical. This not to say that all claims made on the basis of subjective complaints are invalid but rather, that they should be more closely scrutinized.
1
@Miranda
Yours is the most cogent post on this site. Thank you for it.
1
Do it, do it, do it!!! This is a much bigger deal than it seems when one simply looks at dollars and sense. And when they are done, check out people trying to get special services for their kids to bring in extra cash....
3
You figure they’ll never get around to you and your relatives, right?
12
@Robert
If CCC has not been gaming the system, why is that relevant? If CCC has, it is entirely appropriate that "they" get around to him/her.
@Robert
She and her relatives may not be defrauding the system.
This is such small potatoes compared to the enormous amount of tax cheating that happens at large (and the president likely engages in). I’d prefer to see increased staff assigned to the IRS to make sure everyone is paying their fair share. Studies show that by catching tax cheats, every additional IRS agent can bring up to 20 times more revenue than their salary. This would be a much more effective way to guard tax dollars, instead of trying to trap people who receive a pittance in disability checks from the government (and have already been vetted by social security).
53
@Sean Udell "guard tax dollars..." All well and good, but make sure the IRS begins by reviewing the tax returns of millionaires, billionaires and corporations. Wait a minute, the tax laws would need to be changed in order for ANY of those groups to pay their fair share. Unlikely to happen while Congress and the WH house are controlled by republicans.
What about if you claimed disability for bone spurs and are later seen playing golf?
75
@Karen Hale
Trump did avoid Vietnam with fake bone spurs; he did play golf with his "disability". Now, he probably is disabled due to obesity which prevents him from walking a golf course. He rides around on a golf cart; he is followed by the SS in carts. They all stay at his private resort; we pay for it. We also pay for his weekly flights to and from FL. He ought to be a question on Jeopardy.
3
A couple years ago ran into a couple in their 50’s playing golf at a resort course.
They had the nerve to brag about being former NJ teachers now on 100% SS disability.
Great citizens.
7
some employee (erisa)disability insurances can be occupation or specialty specific, yet require all claimants to apply for social security benefits ( so the insurer can deduct those payments from their benefits). this can lead to people who are not claiming total disability to apply and then be approved for ssdi. Who is committing the fraud in those cases, the claimant, or the insurer who requires a fraudulent claim to the government before paying a rightful claim?
7
Big Brother is watching everywhere to make sure none of the hoi poli step out of line, so why not watch those who claim disabilty then work? I am sure there's lots of room for dishonesty but then again, why this story? Why not talk about how the one percent consistently gets away with not paying their fair share?
I am not sure what to think of the direction the New York Times is taking. Militant at times, such as earlier this morning featuring a black woman brandishing a purple guns, or now showing someone disabled, questioning whether she should be eligible for government help.
4
A is for Alibi. Sue Grafton explored this situation in her inaugural novel.
2
@J W Merchant: I miss Kinsey Millhone AND Sue.
Having looked for old friends on Facebook, I can say it is quite common for two people to have the same name, even if the name seems unusual. Furthermore, many people conceal the city they live in, their employer, and other personal details on their profiles, so I can't tell if this is the person I used to know. Heck, when my husband and I lived in San Francisco there were two other people with his name. We used to get phone calls for one of them (he claimed to produce films, and people called us about acting), and we once ran into the other (who worked in the medical field), who turned out to work a few blocks from where we lived. That's leaving out fake-name and pirated Facebook accounts. And yes, sometimes people post very old photos. This is a scary idea.
10
Did Trump remember to put a statute of limitations on how far back lying about a disability could disqualify you from government benefits?
10
standard GOP tactics - point fingers at the poor & weak while the Maniforts (and Trumps) of this country defraud the country of billions of dollars in taxes every year. it's worth noting that while they want to increase scrutiny of the poorest & most vulnerable, they spend less and less policing tax dodgers and other white collar crimes.
22
@spamboli
And I think Manafort arrived for his sentencing in a wheelchair!
Why not use social media to identify people who are taking significant money illegally through tax evasion? Why do Republicans always pick on small timers when the extra benefits they get are small compared to big time grifters such as Trump.
22
They pick on the poor and people of color so they can continue their own predation. And people on disability can't often fight back.
2
Big Brother is watching. That’s not the reality television series but the totalitarian state snooping on everyone to make certain nobody is non-conforming.
Trump’s rallies ape Orwell’s novel, 1984, too. They resemble the compulsory hate rallies in which all must participate in the novel.
Bizarre when our reality starts to resemble a dire warning about totalitarianism.
5
The stigma this would create around disabled people if enforced is horrific.
Imagine - you are disabled and can’t even post photos of yourself when you were healthy (to keep your life and dream of a healthier life alive, maybe? To let your friends and family know that you’re not any different because you are disabled than before, maybe? Because you just don’t want to broadcast to the world that you’re disabled, but you still want to participate in social sharing maybe?) We are an increasing visual culture and image-based social posts are more and more important in how we socially interact. These social interactions can, to some extent, influence happiness or even contribute to severe depression. With this policy, you’re basically telling a disabled person that not only are they disabled, they should extremely cautious in trying to live their lives and what they share with those they know / the world - lest they get charged with fraud/theft. Unbelievable. GOP is the party that screams “No” when the govt tries to monitor guns that kill people en masse - yet does anything it can do to crush those who need help paying for basic life needs.
15
Fraud is based on lying and I'm against lying.
And if we need better oversight to preserve the disability system. I'm all for it. I suspect abuse is a significant cost.
And in a system so large, there will be some fraud that escapes prevention or correction.But improved oversight would help.
It seems to me that oversight is about eligibility -- both for disability certification and re-certification. But no usage of social media has yet proved a reliable screen for eligibility.
Let's more broadly re-visit the screening process. But, meanwhile, let's not downgrade the benefits.
I can witness to the value of SSDI -- I needed it when as a single mother of a young adolescent, I had a stage 4 cancer twenty-three years ago. Believe me I was never so glad to give up a benefit as I was to relinquish that lifesaving check! I healed and returned to work!
For life, one needs a livelihood (or its disability equivalent).
7
when it comes to disability, there is more fraud by insurers than by claimants.
7
Orwell was right on the mark. Just 35 years later than forecast.
Big Brother is watching and social media tapping is just another tool in its arsenal. Time to heed the warning if you post it they will come.
5
And I suppose the Trump administration will be bringing back the workhouses next.
11
@patricia
And when the poor can't even work, they will bring back poorhouses. No doubt DeVos, the education guru, will be able to find out how to create both.
It's a tragedy that the Draft Board during the Vietnam War didn't have a Facebook around to check the postings of young men who claimed highly questionable physical disabilities such as severe bone spurs. We all know that young Donald would have had hundreds of pictures of himself playing golf on courses across the country and maybe around the world.
41
Unfortunately this is the case in 2019. I became a paraplegic in the summer of 2019. My wife and I (Ss investigates the spouse as well) have quickly learned when you go to Ss or any social service agency you feel like you are battling the fraudsters. When you go to the pharmacy you feel like you are battling the addicted folks. You go to the airport and you are battling the terrorists. You do what you think is the right thing for your entire life and then you are treated with suspicion and often contempt. So I have truly mixed feelings about all this. Side note,they always ask if you are a citizen.
21
I'm most likely in the 90th percentile when it comes to being a radical civil liberties annoyance. ACLU and all that.
In my town, teenagers post or live-stream evidence of their criminal escapades on Fakebook and then seem surprised that the police look at it. Where is the problem here? The only place stupidity forms a "protected class" is in Congress. The kids have to live with the problem they brought on themselves.
Now for years, states like Tennessee and Kentucky that Social Security knows have huge amounts of disability applications and likely fraud persistently elect Republicans to the United States Congress. Those same Republicans say they want to cut off people from the dole, means test my Social Security, privatize my Medicare. But McConnell gets re-elected, even though around half his state's personal income comes from transfer payments.
Then liberals like me whine and complain about the "safety net," and fight with the selfish little Jowl Monster about this. Why don't we just stop already! Let the Republicans throw the drug addled people voting for McConnell and Trump into the gutter. We don't enable drunks, so why should we enable welfare recipients who can't stop voting for Republicans who want to buy bombs and starve children to death?
Oh, sure they'll blame the Democrats for awhile. But as Tom Hanks once said, "stupid is as stupid does."
7
Photos mean nothing. My daughter has Multiple Sclerosis resulting in numbness in her hands and feet plus balance problems. Her peripheral vision is also somewhat limited and strong light affects her vision. But she teaches skiing and is training for the paralympics. The only benefit she gets is a handicapped parking permit because of her balance problems. Despite letters from her neurologist and MRIs showing the lesions in her brain she has been denied any benefits from Social Security. She has been skiing since the age of two, regularly trains on her mountain bike and keeps in good shape. But she has to be careful not to burn or cut herself because of lack of feeling in her hands and she tends to fall over if she has to walk too far because of numbness in her feet. And even if she got disability in Idaho they don't pay more than $1000 and widowed with a nine year old she couldn't live on that. So we help and she soldiers on. (She was denied widows benefits but that is another story!).
22
Only honest post here, and I hope things go better for you and yours.
3
I am not trying to be cruel, but on the whole it would seem to me that of your daughter is physically capable enough to physically train for & participate in a typically rather strenuous sport, both as a teacher & as as a serious athlete, I do not understand why she is incapable of gainful means of “working” & needs SSDI.
Perhaps I’m missing some otherwise critical data, but if one can ski & train, it certainly seems as if one should be able to engage in SOME means of gainful employment & doesn’t truly need SSDI especially with any & reasonable accommodations.
As an individual with a physical disability who seemingly has spent most of her lifetime enjoying skiing (since aged 2), it may be more rewarding & meaningful to her both mentally & physically to devote her life to teaching skiing (perhaps to others with disabilities for free, etc.) & train for & compete in the ParaOlympics whilst receiving SSDI as opposed to working.
However, asking for SSDI benefits (which is basically a de facto claim of inability to work or work significantly) while one can competitively ski (even in the paras) & teach skiing seems like an insult of sorts to those with disabilities that are truly capable of far less whether due to physical and/or psychiatric impairments.
It seems somewhat selfish that despite such capabilities, one with a “disability” should believe they deserve SSDI, especially as brain scan images don’t necessary reflect actual real-world (dis)ability.
1
@Julie Carter Agree with others. Your daughter is demonstrating work equivalent behaviors. It is not the diagnosis that defines her ability. SSI is not occupation specific by the way. It requires to receive that one can't engage in any gainful occupation. If she can teach skiing and is intellectually intact, it might be the case that she could do office work from a desk with minimal limits if any. And she sounds like an awesome woman!
As a starting point to trigger a Continuing Disability Investigation, why not? It should be as valuable as a person ‘dropping a dime’ on someone collecting disability and working off the books.
May be useful as a starting point but insufficient for a determination that a person medically recovered from a disability. I strongly doubt that the SSA would use a facebook post, or an anonymous report as evidence sufficient to terminate benefits.
As far as putting this on Trump? Trump lacks the capacity to understand what a Continuing Disability Investigation entails.
4
Great idea. If you are truly disabled, you have nothing to hide from the government that supplies your benefits, right?
2
@Hat Trick - OK. If we apply this Trumpian policy to the disabled, then we should have license to tweak it a bit and apply it to Trump’s tax returns. After all, if you’ve never committed tax fraud, then you have nothing to hide from the electorate, right?
9
"People who fake disabilities shouldn't receive tax dollars"
Donald Trump - 2019
2
A similar though low tech operation may have helped to find those falsely claiming bone spur disability to avoid military service way back in the Vietnam war years.
21
Who will take my bet that the 57-year old from Louisiana has consistently voted Republican?
10
Trump is concerned that people are defrauding the government. Oh the irony.
70
Of course there is fraud in any government program. If people are fraudulently gettinf SSI, it should be investigated. However, republicans should start the much larger fraud associated with military purchasing and contracting! $200 toilet seats, cost plus contracts, etc. Been going on since the civil war and with the present bloated military budgets it is probably rampant.
11
Do it. Fraud stinks.
3
If anyone has ever tried to get Social Security disability, you know that it's a years-long process with no guarantee of success in the end. The government almost never grant benefits after receiving your application; you almost always have to get an attorney or other advocate to represent you for your (usually several) appeals. The government already does everything it can to avoid paying people disability benefits and now we've got the Trump administration doing what it does best: trying to make it even harder for the poorest and neediest people to live dignified lives. This is disgusting.
426
@C. Hart Amen! Thank you, you said all that I was thinking. I have a family member who is on disability and I agree that it is a long, hard road to get these benefits.
48
@C. Hart -- actually, there are many lawyers specializing in getting their clients on SSI. It's big business.
Often people do have jobs while the government pays them benefits for being unable to work. Unfortunately, this kind of program always invites unsavory people who cheat the system (it may include their lawyers as well).
21
@C. Hart
I know plenty of people who were approved within 3 months, without an attorney.
I also know people who worked full time but hired attorneys and obtained 100% SS disability - and continued working full time.
23
Social media is not public information. This feels like a privacy issue for me. Are they going to ask for your account password? Demand to be me made a friend? What stops other requests? Is email next?
8
There were would be fewer people applying for disability if we had universal health care.
63
@CTMD - This times a million. If you're seriously ill the health insurance can be more valuable than the actual disability payments.
@CTMD. — True. I know a few people who are on Social Security Disability who previously were unable to find one company willing to sell them a health insurance plan simply because they had a pre-existing condition and had let their health insurance lapse for only 2 or 3 months.
1
This is akin to mandating that cash benefits recipients be tested for drug use. Florida tried it, and it was a colossal waste of money. Turns out people aren't sitting at home freebasing waiting on a government check. This proposal is in the same cynical spirit. Leaders of the rightwing have bought into this notion that wealthy people worked hard for everything they have, and if you are poor or disabled and require government assistance to make ends meet, then you must have personal shortcomings. The idea that they will find images of people on disability paddle boarding, zip lining and otherwise having a grand old time on the public's dime is preposterous. This proposal is simply another effort to shame poor, disabled people for being poor in the first place. It is not good policy.
29
Sorry. I’m a doctor
Love the bleeding heart thought process
I personally am a veteran of 6 back operations
Have probably taken 6 weeks off from this in last 36 years, therefore, not the best judge. Admittedly, that was not smart.
Just would appreciate if folks who can work would
It’s hard, sometimes backbreaking, no pun intended, stuff this work. On the other hand, who owes who what. Do your fair share and we will all be happy.
Cheat, and I’m sorry, I don’t have your back
6
"Man Who Faked Disability Demands Those With Real Disabilities Prove They Aren't Fake"
The message is clear: Donald Trump feels that if you're rich, and you fake a disability to avoid serving in the war because you're a coward, then you deserve to be President of the United States of America, but, if you're poor, then you deserve to go to jail. See how that works?
"Rules for you! None for me! That's the GOP for me!"
"Rules for you! None for me! That's the GOP for me!"
"Rules for you! None for me! That's the GOP for me!"
"Coming soon to a Trump rally near you!"
This is simply the latest atrocity exhibition from the national misery machine currently occupying the White House.
51
"Before he was an official presidential candidate, Mr. Trump said he would not cut Social Security."
For the love of God, you would have to be a bot or dumb as a rock not to realize that what he was referring to was social security payments to retirees, and not necessarily to the millions of Americans who were moved from the welfare rolls in in the 1990s to the Social Security disability rolls. Even NPR has reported in a less biased way on this:
https://www.npr.org/2013/03/27/175502085/moving-people-from-welfare-to-disability-rolls-is-a-profitable-full-time-job
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/03/disability-insurance-americas-124-billion-secret-welfare-program/274302/
1
@Middleman MD - There's a reason more people went on disability during the economic collapse. For example, one of my duties as an HR manager was to try to find another job within the company for any of our workers who became too disabled to do their old jobs. It wasn't always possible, but we made every effort to do so. But when companies are laying people off or even closing their doors, that leaves those disabled people without a job, and no employer wants to take on an employee who needs special accommodations to do a job.
In other words, those people were genuinely disabled but able to work when they had an accommodating employer. When that situation changed, they weren't able to find another job and thus had to apply for disability.
8
Doesn’t Trump have better things to do?
7
Instead of opinions talk to people who administer benefits and work for social security disability and workers compensation. Ask them are there surveillance videos of people who claim workers compensation total disability and SSDI fixing roofs, waterskiing and so on. Many people have neighbors and relatives who they know are fraudulent in their claims, working under the table and so on. There are hotlines to call, and people do. You don’t need to be sneaky, look at the evidence under the noses of people who work for SSDI, Medicaid, welfare and so on. Just ask the workers.
And what about SSDI for kids with diagnosis of ADHD for instance. What is that all about when they receive services through school? Maybe look into that program.
We need to support those that are truly disabled. I don’t think there is any human who is so evil they would deny that. People who earnestly worked and tried to do the right thing that have medical conditions that prohibit them from working.
Social media is bringing many people down. If you don’t want it to come back to haunt you, don’t do it and don’t say it.
7
@C WOlson - You're confusing two totally separate programs. Social Security Disability Insurance is for people who've worked the requisite 40 quarters to be eligible BEFORE they become disabled.
SSI stands for Supplemental Security Insurance. It's for very low income disabled people, including children, who've never been able to work long enough to qualify for Social Security. It's totally unrelated to Social Security, and comes out of the general fund, NOT out of Social Security Funds. It's that confusion, which apparently huge numbers of people share, that causes such enormous misconceptions about Social Security Disability and who qualifies.
3
I am a fervent supporter of privacy rights but I do not see any basis for objection to what the government wants to do here. People post on Facebook and other social media expressly for the purpose of broadcasting to the world their message and photos.
If a person murdered someone and filmed it, then showed it on social media, would you object to that video being used as evidence against them? How is this any different?
8
What this country coming to?
Are people with disabilities to be treated as second class citizens, having their right to privacy & free speech trampled upon at the whim of a prying Big Brother government? If that is to be a qualification for any and all government assistance then by all means also apply it to the private lives and taxes and schemes of the rich on corporate welfare, the ones for whom the system is rigged--starting with Trump Inc.
9
@Stan Chaz
This is not invading the privacy of disabled people. This is just viewing the public postings of people who post for the very purpose of broadcasting to the world what they are doing.
If you have committed a crime, whether fraud or murder or other, then don't be stupid enough to broadcast pictures of it to the world or post your admission of it to the world. And if you are that stupid, then good since it gives the rest of the society opportunity to stop your criminal actions.
7
Let's do the same with corporate welfare queens. If they use the massive welfare checks that they receive only for themselves and not to hire and to raise wages for their workers, then no more subsidies for them.
33
This is like the prescrtion drug problem, and the illegal immigrant problem. Easy to solve, go after the ringleaders. The doctors and lawyers. First 203 are warnings, then official reprimands with the records public record, the next ones are fines [double whatever claimed]. And then the suspension of license. Just like illegal workers, start fining @ $10,000 per employee escalate up for the next one, and soon no one will risk it. There would be 0 illegal immigrants if there was no one to hire them!
3
Pretty simple equation here. Take SSDI when you shouldn’t then delete your social media accounts.
1
Disability is a benefit, it is not a right. It is subject to scrutiny and to oversight. As a liberal it offends me mightily when rich people cheat and avoid oversight and scrutiny. It offends me just as much when the middle class do so.
Being a stupid thief who doesn't know better than to not post pictures of themselves cheating the government is no excuse.
5
Because someone who is disabled CAN work, at least for a few hours a week, does not necessarily mean that there is an employer eager to give that person a job. On the contrary, in a buyer's market with dozens of eager candidates for even the most mediocre positions, most employers won't even consider someone with a disability, as they will do anything to avoid a potential health insurance cost. And if they do that person will be the first cut. Look no further than Walmart, which for years has hired disabled and elderly persons as greeters, but recently changed its job description to require climbing and lifting, thereby disqualifying thousands of current employees at one fell swoop.
28
It would only be dangerous to those that are not legally entitled to disability. Today ifi you have a lawyer you get approved after being denied, why would that be?
2
According to an investigative journalism piece years ago, the data is clear that so called welfare reform resulted in a massive shift of people moving from welfare to disability. The saddest result of the fraud is when children are coerced to support the family with bogus learning disabilities. The children are coached by adults in their family unit on ways to adhere to their disabled status - a fraud that will permanently prevent them from reaching their potential in life.
I’m sad to say that out of five children in my original family, two have been on disability most of their adult lives. Much of it really is fraud. But I’m not sure the best way to detect and prevent it.
11
@Just Curious - Just to make things clear, if there are children on disability then they're getting Supplemental Security Income, designed for the very low income disabled who've never been able to work to qualify for Social Security. SSI and SSDI are two different programs, totally unrelated to one another. SSI comes out of the general fund, NOT out of the general fund, and eligibility for the two different programs differs. For every person who says they have a neighbor on Social Security Disability who's clearly defrauding the program, I'd bet 95% of the time that neighbor is on SSI.
One only needs to read the NYT archives of disability fraud at the Long Island Railroad to see how this approach can be an effective means to catch those that are bilking the system and a deterrent to those thinking about it.
6
Perhaps these proposals should only be allowed to pass, if the opposing ends are addressed as well.
Spend money on pursuing those who cheat the benefits systems (the bottom of the barrel)? Then equal investment dollars need to be spent on pursuing those evading and dodging taxes in off-shore tax shelters (the top of the barrel).
7
This is rich coming from an administration that in the last week alone has had two of its former high level campaign members be in the news because of their convictions of cheating the USA people. One who was convicted of tax evasion, cheating the USA people of money, the other for lying to Congress for what appears to be his desire to cover the presidents tracks of deceit, cheating the USA people out of the truth. This is as laughable as the administration lasted and I’m sure on going wish to scare us of socialism. They seem to believe that social programs are evil unless they happen to be tax breaks or bailouts for corporations, banks, farmers and the wealthy. You guys just keep me laughing.
10
"some conservative organizations, like the Heritage Foundation in Washington, have supported the idea as part of a broader effort to prevent the payment of disability benefits to people who are able to work."
If you are going to start persecuting decent folk like Paul Manafort, his gout so bad he can only walk 9 feet in any direction without stopping, or someone whose bone spurs were disabling enough to keep him from volunteering to serve in Vietnam or earning an honest living, I think it is discriminatory,maybe even wrong
But if FaceBook STASI wannabe's want to focus on urban dwelling registered Democrats, non-white i.e. "colored-folk", who aren't wearing MAGA hats, what's the issue?
6
By the way that Samsung tv in your apartment and house can listen to your conversations. Wouldn't doubt in the future of there could actually film you in your residence. . Never hookup the internet through your tv, for it sends a signal to record all sound where you reside. Facebook device records all conversations. technology is about to be used to not only where you are, but to listen to all of your conversations. There is even doubt about conversations in cars being recorded. Anyone ever get strange voices in their cars? Those with independent thought will be thought of as a risk in the future. There was a program to listen to your conversations even when your cell phone is off. Off is not off. Your voice can be copied so probably can be challenged. Facebook saves all of your prior posts. they are a threat to liberty.
7
SSDI was, to a disturbing degree, crypto-welfare in the years after the Great Recession. So disturbing to see, in a system as vital, and as financially tenuous, as is Social Security.
3
@Mike
The income limit on taxable social security needs to be raised drastically,or eliminated.Any dollar amount over $106,300 isn't deducted for social security.
6
@Tim Lynch
It took me a couple of reads to figure out what your saying. Of, course you are correct.
Just eliminate the limit. Bingo !
3
@Mike - As I explained in a previous post, many employers will try to find a new job within the company or make accommodations for a long-term employee who has become too disabled to do their old job. But when companies had to lay off huge numbers of workers or even close their doors during the economic collapse, those disabled employees weren't going to find a new employer who was willing to hire someone who needed accommodations. That's when these employees ended up applying for disability. They weren't newly disabled, they were disabled all along, but suddenly no longer had an employer willing to make accommodations for them.
1
Something needs to be done, but I don’t trust the Trump administration to do it in any sort of even handed way. They will target those in states that did not support him and go easy on “The Base(tm).
5
I suggest we start with a study to determine the extent of fraud. It may be as big a problem as fraudulent voting, as it springs from the same group. A few years ago Florida tried drug testing people receiving food stamps, and it cost the state millions to find a tiny handful of people. The effort may cost more than its worth.
10
If this is fine for people with disabilities, we should be able to see all the social media and other posts or tweets for each and every Republican in Congress. Heaven knows, they are not working, although a lot of them might qualify as disabled, since they seem morally defective. I think we shouldn't pay them, so hurry up with the spying on them, and let them go first if they think this is such a good idea.
12
Re 'Facebook' used by' US Govt on Disabled';
WELL, 'Partly to ID fraud,..' sounds like a euphemistic, Orwellian perhaps?, way to advance the US political class-war against the Dissability/Poverty classes of US citizens.
I join Ms.K. Lollock's comments here; namly;
'I find this egregious and dictatorial. I am no different than any other tax-paying citizen. I want my dollars to be spent wisely.'.
Hear, hear, right on...
Democrats are Dickensian in State government in the US too! Stop voting for anybody who acts like
the Cruel-Rulers in the film 'Metropolis'!
3 March 2019 -HBfE
How do you know who has a social media account and who doesn't? It's terribly easy to sign up for them with a burner email address under a pseudonym...
3
@Eric And given how nasty some people are on social media, I could easily see the enemies of a disabled person setting up an account just to make the disabled person lose their benefits, or at least make them spend a huge amount of effort to retain or recover their benefits.
4
How about using social media to track the billionaires and millionaires of NY, who feign to be living in Florida or other no income tax state, but secretly enjoying all that NYC has to offer.
10
Invasion of privacy, total waste of time and dollars. I can see it now. Someone is photographed exercising as their doctor/rehab person instructed. Even worse are all the jerks who can't wait to point a finger as so many of the commenters seem to want to do.
And why did Pear not name the people behind this new crusade against the poor
7
Jesus Christ healed the afflicted. Hitler killed the disabled. Trump wants to make the afflicted suffer because they can't fight back. Trump is kicking people when they are down. Trump is the opposite of Jesus Christ.
8
@PATRICK
I don’t think that Jesus was a big fan of people stealing, which is what SSDI fraud is, so Trump is doing the Christian thing by rooting ou5 fraud and helping to redeem sinners
4
@stan
Do you really believe that? You don't know Jesus. He taught us to forgive. Trump, the big man, wants to stomp people who are physically, mentally, and financially unable to fight back against unknowing people such as himself who think they know people better than they know themselves. Trump is the opposite of Jesus Christ who helped the poor, the afflicted, and even forgave a tax collector who preyed on Jews. Trump is an Antichrist. I'm convinced of it now. He appears to be good to many whom he deceived, but he is evil.
1
This administration has been so consistently disasterous that I don’t trust anything they propose.
I’m so disgusted even if this administration came up with a great idea I probably wouldn’t recognize it.
6
The irony is that this program, if administered fairly (which is unlikely in a Trump administration), is likely to catch a lot of Trump supporters.
26
@Jay Lagemann
Bingo!
5
Is Facebook picture the right based to see if someone is disabled ? How does the government administrator know that this is the same John Smith as the one on the social security record? And the John Smith holding a golf club does no proof that he can swing the club.
No, the determination for disability should be done by Doctors, not by judging Facebook snapshots.
7
I'm amazed at the number of people in this comment section who know the day-to-day details of acquaintances lives well enough to be sure that they are capable of working despite receiving disability payments from Social Security. They extrapolate a person's ability to hold down a job from the slices they see of these other lives.
SSDI - the main disability program based on working and contributing to SS for years - is notoriously hard to get. The application process is a masterpiece of convoluted bureaucratic stages. In addition to medical records documented to their standards, your spouse/partner and friends need to fill detailed forms about what they see of your abilities/lack of abilities. Then a doctor who has never seen you, and may never have seen anyone with your condition, gets to say whether or not you can work at *any* job. (This is the part where people near retirement do get an edge because there isn't enough of our working years left to make completely retraining for a new career feasible.)
Then you can expect to be turned down and need to appeal, and then appeal that decision. This is where lawyers find it worth it to work on contingency payment from the months/years between when your disability started and when your claim is finally approved. Then they check back to make sure you still can't work.
Fraud applying for SSDI is not easy.
18
@Amoret - You're right. And then every year you and your doctor have to fill out a questionnaire intended to ascertain that this year you've recovered enough to be able to return to work. My husband managed to work for 13 years with Parkinson's disease. But after 16 years of PD, he had to report to a SS Disability physician to verify that he was STILL disabled. As if Parkinson's ever gets better over time. I have to say, though, that the SS Disability physician actually apologized to us for the idiocy of some bureaucrat who thought he should have to prove his Parkinson's hadn't gone away, or something.
1
Does this surprise anyone? Remember, everything Trump accuses others of doing he is channeling his own thoughts and actions.
9
There are only about 18,000 people on SSI in all of Hawaii. It was also Trump’s worst state.
Although West Virginia’s population is only slightly larger than Hawaii’s, it has FOUR times the number of SSI recipients. It was also one of Trump’s best states. We’ll see how this plays over there.
25
@Big Electric Cat
Do you have any idea what the main industry in West Virginia is? Your weak statistical statement is ill founded.
3
@Big Electric Cat - Not trying to be picky, but SSI stands for Supplemental Security Income. It's totally unrelated to Social Security Disability. It comes out of the general fund, not out of SS funds, and the eligibility requirements for the two programs are different, too.
1
In 2016 West Virginia went for Trump by a margin of more than 2-to-1. It’s home to some of his most fanatical supporters. So it is ironic that because a disproportionately high number of West Virginians are on SSI, more of them will suffer under this new policy than in deep blue states like Hawaii, which has a comparatively smaller number of SSI recipients.
One more reason to stay away from social media whether one is committing fraud or not.
5
This whole topic reeks of the GOP plan for getting voters to look down the economic food chain to explain what is wrong, rather than up it. Believe me, what Wall Street did in 2008 to millions of Americans who saw trillions of their wealth go up in smoke is what is wrong with America. And Trump is dismantling much of Dodd Frank as we speak.
I have little patience for folks who blame the poor for their misfortune. I work at SSA and 40 years of government increasingly working for the well off has left a shrinking middle class with lagging pay plus fewer earned benefits and an agency that has closed offices while Congress got "government off your back". The poor did not do that. You probably voted for it.
If castigating the poor makes you feel better about your personal frustration, I truly feel sorry for you. Perhaps instead of chasing bogeymen and scapegoats, swallowing propaganda whole, you might ask why more people are finding it hard to obtain a living wage. Too many people are forced to file for disability not because they qualify, but because it might guarantee an income and provide health care. They are stuck with a lost career and lousy prospects. Most would rather work.
Policies that reduce taxes to the well off so they can reinvest it in stock buy backs rather than invest in better pay is the class war you need to heed.
If you want transparency and no privacy for people you assume are crooks, then perhaps you should ask the president for his tax returns.
68
@Tom
Thank you.
9
Well said Tom.
8
The use of social media to "spy" on us is abominable but regardless of what any of us think of the merits of the disability program, to use the stereotype of a 57 year old man, an acknowledge cheater, who says "I did it so as y'all wouldn't find out " is also abominable - aren't there any other people who cheat?
Many years ago I worked in a local Social Security office interviewing people filing claims for disability benefits, as well as people already receiving disability benefits whose friends or neighbors had, usually anonymously, tipped off SSA that the recipient was not as disabled as claimed. The tips led to a professional investigation which landed them at my desk.
When presented with evidence that they were not disabled, a common response was a nonchalant, "Well, I'm sure the government knows everything about us anyway; why didn't they stop my benefits sooner?" (And this was well before the Facebook era.)
If the current proposal is pursued - and I hope it will be - get ready to hear more of this "defense."
9
@Local Man
I work in a Federal building a few floors below the SSDI hearing room, and based on what I see, the down elevators must have healing powers because I see people go up lame and come down and dancing like Sammy Davis Jr.
Fraud is pervasive
3
@stan
It is indeed pervasive and it invaded the White House after the 2016 election.
5
@stan
Thank you for the chuckle.
1
This is hysterical. The biggest free loaders and grifters and thieves are right at the top. What a wonderful example they set. You can cheat and lie and steal all you want to as long as it is for huge amounts Millions and billions and that OK even admired in certain circles. Never mind the victims in your wake. But any small time grifter will be punished severely. I would say there is great snobbery in the white collar crime world.
22
This is the most productive use of social media yet. These people are stealing from us. The Big Brother blather only serves to protect crooks... no one truly disabled will lose a penny.
If the Kardashians can use social media to separate fools from their money, why can't our government?
4
@Chris: "No one truly disabled will lose a penny"--from where did you receive that information, please?
It seems to me that social media posts may trigger an investigation, I did not understand the article to mean that disability would terminate immediately upon review of certain posts. If you are not defrauding the system, you have nothing to worry about.
There is a multi-step test to qualifying for SSDI but the most significant are: an inability to perform the work done in the past and an inability to perform other types of work; and a condition that prevents one from lifting, standing, walking, sitting or remembering.
So if you qualified for disability because of an inability to remember anything and you met the other criteria, you should expect questions if you subsequently appear on Jeopardy.
9
This may be new for the government but it’s certainly routine for disability insurers. It’s very Big Brother in the world of private insurers. They hire doctors to testify against you, search social media to catch you, ask your doctors for every word he or she has written down about you, demand your taxes, try to find another illness that’s not covered and get you to cop to that, etc. Bottom line, the private insurers use any and all means to trip you and drop you, legitimate and dirty alike — mostly dirty. I had a friend who survived only because he had deep pockets (so his legal threats were real) and ethical doctors who were willing to fight the fight. I’d never seen such dirty pool in my life!
8
I'm neither surprised nor overly disturbed by this. Any entity that gives you money (for example, your employer) periodically checks up on your social media postings to make sure that you're on the straight and narrow,...or are at least presenting yourself in a way that does not reflect poorly on them and/or violates the terms of your employment.... I wouldn't expect any different if the government ( rather than a private employer) is the one cutting the checks for you.
7
What about bankers & investment fraud?
What about tax fraud?
Somehow I don't begrudge a minor 'disability' fib, or welfare stretch, or someone who technically doesn't deserve a handout after a weather emergency, when these recipients are probably dirt poor & will always be thus . . . . ... .
Try to imagine the numbers of millions of $US that get funneled to anonymous fat cats & untraceable offshore accounts through shady dealings, tax 'incentives' & winks & nods in smoke filled rooms full of lobbyists & weapons contractors. I hope this country is finally starting to re-evaluate priorities across the entire board..
14
Well, Will. Maybe you don’t.
@will b
It is ironic that a guy who bragged about not paying taxes,and who refuses to release his tax returns is now concerned with how his "tax dollars" are spent.
22
Among all the chaos originating from the Trump Mis-administration, only Trump and the Dark Ages' misanthropic conservatives would think of engaging in such a political diversion--I assume to keep the highly religious, right-wing, authoritarian, punishing base engaged and enthralled.
Dear Trump and the right-wing Conservatives,
John.8. [1] "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone" [at those claiming SS disability]
Or,
As Elvis Presley sang "Clean up your own [corrupt, self-serving] backyard" [before going after poor, disabled, and vulnerable citizens].
I think we shall never see
Any more corrupt, hypocritical,
and meaner politicians
than these.
8
Are bone spurs a disability? Oh, right! They are! Even the phony ones!
12
A government entity run by people used to cheating others in their daily lives are certain to assume everyone else cheats also.
11
@ecomaniac Exactly my feelings about this bunch now running the country. This does not negate the need to try and eliminate cheating. But those whose careers have been based on gaming the system will assume that everyone else is doing it too. Especially true about real estate developers and those who operate as landlords in such a city as New York. Of course, they also have god on their side.
2
This Administration's disingenuous, ramped-up, phony "witch hunt" for Social Security Disability fraud sounds a lot like its embarrassingly discredited, and finally abandoned, one to ferret out non-existing widespread voter fraud. The real objective, of course, is to reduce the pool of future legitimate applicants for these benefits, which they have already contributed to through their S.S. payroll taxes, to a mere trickle. Its bad faith in pursuing this supposed fraud is exemplified by resorting to social media searches for "gotcha" postings, meant to intimidate, and the proposed elimination of in person hearings before an administrative law judge with their replacement by video conferences. As someone who has represented these disability claimants, the burden of proof upon them to satisfy the right to compensation is substantial and complicated enough without depriving them, and the hearing judge for that matter, of the vital insights and observations only furnished through a face to face, nuanced hearing process. This particular attack on the Social Security disability program is a component of this Administration's larger assault on working America's greater federal entitlement structure. It must be resisted and stopped.
10
Also, in this entire article, it does not cite the actual % of cases of fraud found to date by SSDI. That is irresponsible of the author and may create the impression it is very high. I was curious what rates are myself currently: per SSDI, it is "a fraction of 1%" of all cases.
https://www.ssa.gov/disabilityfacts/facts.html
26
One of the dumbest ideas yet. This is more divide and conquer nonsense, demonizing the disabled.
You'd think people would be wise to this nonsense by now.
13
It sounds awful, but there is some merit to this. As someone who has worked in the disability field fo a few years now, I have to say that THERE ARE so-called disabled people who are definitely abusing the system. These people are doing a disservice to those who actually need disability benefits and accommodations.
12
Kind like flagging avid golfers who claimed bone spurs to avoid the draft...?
125
This type of fraud has been going on forever, including workman’s comp. if someone is dumb enough to claim a severe physical disability and then post social media pictures of themselves playing tennis or whatnot, they should be caught. It takes away from the people who actually are disabled. Good grief.
12
@Janice Badger Nelson
You’re correct except Trump is just positioning himself as a tough guy. Somehow he’ll end up spending more on this adventure than the govt will benefit.
1
I was born a 25-week preemie baby in 1988, and due to it have the condition of Cerebral Palsy, though it is mild and so for those who may just see me walking down the street I will look like any person — except if you know to look at my feet, as my feet tell the story. The world sees only half my story.
I understand the Government wants to stop fraud, but if there are people who also take advantage of the system they might also be stopping someone who is truly disabled like myself, and letting the fraudster who can in fact cause real-world harm and damage go unpunished.
Education in this case is KEY! If people had more education about disabilities then a problem like fraud of Social Security wouldn’t exist. The facts are
1 billion people throughout the world live with a disability. 80% live in a developing country. Due to this (and the different cultures) many do not go to work or school because they are told that they do not matter or have difficulty finding jobs, etc. and so only 20% are currently employed, and 70% of disabilities are invisible (statistics from The Harkin International Disability Employment Summit)
11
Will that mean retroactive military service for Pres. Trump if they find pictures of him running with "bone spurs"?
12
Everybody I’ve known on SSI had to go to court just to get benefits. It usually took years and now some buffoon is going to draw conclusions from a Facebook account?
One man I knew had a heart condition. He looked great, got turned down and was fighting in court for years. He won and died shortly after from a heart attack.
I’ve certainly known more people who have been unfairly treated by SSI than have cheated,
And fiscally? With the level of graft we are seeing in this administration? It’s like plugging a pinhole with the drain open.
51
Oh Trump; why do you hate so much? You want to build a fascist killing empire that will inevitably start wars to justify their existence, as you do, while harming the afflicted.
A bigot is one who hates an entire group only because of the sins of a few. You're a full blown bigly bigot.
I would think there should be little politics in Doctor's judgments. Or is it your malicious sadistic way to see down and out people suffer even more?
11
@PATRICK
Iq45 cares for nobody but himself. This is his way of horse trading: Give the neocons something so he gets something from them. This has been an issue for the gop for a long time. Now they have a puppet to implement it.
2
This should surprise nobody.
2
Just another distraction to take those with resentment and give them some small potato to focus on rather than the gigantic fraud perpetrated daily
Resentment politics has us fighting for scraps while the billions skim the top.
21
The slippery slope to dictatorships. So social media is not private and any fool who uses it is enabling the government to secretly spy on them and abuse people,
In nazi Germany the Nazis would pay people to spy on each other. We know how successful that spying was, trains to the concentration camps were full.
Facebook is working with the Chinese and Saudi Arabia. To spy on citizens do why wouldn’t they work with Trump to spy on Americans. Stay off of social media. Let the government go old fashion police work if they want to find out who is doing what. Invasion of privacy is against the democratic code of America.
20/20 is coming pretty soon and these repressive people won’t be in power anymore.
I do hope the Trump family with their back channels to dictators are the first to get caught.
7
If you are disabled, post your picture in a wheelchair, or on the operating table. Or being spoon-fed because you can't feed yourself. Give yourself ammunition when they come to call and rescind your SSI.
On the other hand, many disabilities are not visible. Even if you are mentally disabled or suffering from a debilitating disease and look normal, try to look "sick." Give Dr. Trump something to go on. Be fair to yourself.
2
“Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king.”
58
Definitely the motto of Trumpy and his crime syndicate.
6
I don’t think they listen to Bob Dylan.
3
And we are a nation of Christians? Reading the comments here certainly explains how the GOP has gotten the power to run this country for the last 40 years,virtually. The resentment is astonishing. The glass shattering by all these stones is stunning. Like Reagan's "welfare queen", these anecdotes mentioned are so tiresome. I bet too that every American is completely truthful on their taxes, or on their life insurance policies. So,yeah,lets throw the baby out with the bath water.
10
Tax cheats cost hundreds of billions of dollars a year in a country with the highest tax compliance rate in the world (~80%). The typical tax cheat profile (yes I get that we are crime profiling here) is a high income earning white male with complex return under 50 typically evading through claims of church contributions.
But let’s spend taxpayer money to use Facebook and implement big brother tactics to try to reduce fraud on social security disability, which is about $7 billion. Because it’s not Trumps base.
At some point Democrats may finally respond with something simply radical in the budget - fully fund the IRS. And then let’s see how the use of Facebook goes over with Trumps base. Pfff.
10
@WM
Amen!
2
My understanding is that approximately 80% of applications for SSD are rejected. How much in benefits are paid to fraudulent claimants yearly?
1
I am a highly committed liberal.
The Empire State Building stages a vertical race: a race to see who can be the fastest to climb 85 stories to the top of the building. In 1978 a fireman on a total disability pension won the race racing up the 85 stories in 12 minutes, 32 seconds (https://www.nytimes.com/1978/02/17/archives/exfireman-who-raced-up-85-flights-faces-review-of-his-disability.html).
I want my tax dollars to support the needy, not the deceitful greedy.
10
So you take one totally extreme example and that’s it for you?
7
Trump's bone spurs, that got him out of Vietnam, haven't interfered with his record breaking Presidential number of golf games.
14
I’m not terribly afraid of this idea. Most people post pictures of happy memories, but I believe any fraud potential would be carefully scrutinized before its flagged. Posts are only half truths and there’s more to the equation,
It’s not a bad idea as long as once exposed, the options are there to help them shape up.
1
Trump is policing fraud, first voter fraud, now disability fraud. How can anyone take this seriously? Trump almost certainly avoided Vietnam by claiming a fake disability. He has zero credibility. Zero.
17
Donny is an expert on fraud because it’s been his life’s work.
29
@Robert
Completely agree. Sometimes it takes a thief to catch a thief. Problem is that the average citizen /jury does not consider disability fraud to be wrong. You can't really prosecute in front of a jury especially when so many of their relatives are doing the same thing.
People cheat but conservatives are so paranoid about cheaters that one wonders whether that is because they are compulsive cheaters themselves.
12
If you don't want anyone to see it, don't put it on Facebook. It's real simple. Also, those disability/workers comp companies will, according to my brother's worker's comp lawyer, say they have video proof of you working, or cutting down a tree (in my brother's case, they said he had a crew of tree trimmers, he was on comp for a work injury from his job on a tree crew, and it just wasn't true), and they are hoping you will just give it up, too much hassle. Many people don't bother to fight it, especially if they were working.
2
@BorisRoberts Workers Comp companies as well as disability insurance companies. When I first took medical leave (after a long career in public service) I had to submit to so-called Independent Medical Examinations required by my disability insurance company. They also surveilled me (of course, without my knowledge) as I went to a department store to return items purchased online. They reported this apparently egregious activity along with the equally onerous going-to-the-grocery-store-to-buy-food (imagine!), made worse by actually putting groceries into the trunk of my car...the car that was legally parked in a disabled parking spot. To have to live a life in fear of being surveilled, simply because your activity may be mischaracterized by a third party (when taken out of context--how much do you know about a photo, really?) should also be a crime.
2
@BorisRoberts
But when they do admit you can't work those private disability companies will provide a whole team to help you get SSDI. I saw that years ago with my husbands young onset Parkinson's Disease.
The reason is simple - once you get your SSDI benefits they only have to pay the difference between the SS amount and their amount.
This experience was useful when I later became disabled (by a totally unrelated condition) and was applying for my own benefits.
The money we've spent on handicapped accessible fishing piers with ramps has just been turned in to an elaborate ruse to entrap the users.
And we wonder why the government isn't trustworthy.
4
"If, for example, a person claimed benefits because of a back injury but was shown playing golf in a photograph posted on Facebook, that could be used as evidence that the injury was not disabling."
Interesting initiative from a person who avoided the draft by claiming bone spurs in his feet, although that condition was not disabling and may not have existed at all.
12
"If, for example, a person claimed benefits because of a back injury but was shown playing golf in a photograph posted on Facebook, that could be used as evidence that the injury was not disabling."
Excellent example! Not to mention any names, but would the same rationale apply to someone who qualified for a military draft deferment due to bone spurs, but regularly plays golf?
10
The plan to eliminate in-person social security disability hearings is nothing new, an effort to do so was made years ago, in all probability under the Reagan presidency.
3
I am saddened, but not surprised, to see the rampant passing of judgement reflected in these comments. One does not have to “look sick” or appear disheveled or impaired to be disabled. Many people, me included, suffer from chronic diseases that are often termed “invisible illnesses”. In my case, I don’t usually “look sick”, therefore people assume that I am fine. What most people don’t see is the chronic pain, joint damage, migraine headaches due to neck vertebra damage, eye inflammation, anemia, loss of strength and disabling fatigue. Couple that with a plethora of distressing and often disabling medication side effects, and this is a recipe for disability.
Also, many diseases flare and remit or wax and wane. While there are no pain-free days, some days are better than others. On that glorious day when we can go into the ocean to swim or take a light hike, we tend to celebrate being able to do so. Posting on social media is one way that we may commemorate this small victory. But what we don’t post on social media is a detailed description of the price we may pay for said activity. This could be a disease flare or a day or to in bed due to increased pain and inability to use one or more joints.
Issues like this are not black and white. I wish more people understood the nature of chronic disease. Please don’t rush to judgement until you have walked in another’s shoes.
75
@SomewhereintheCaribbean Thank you for articulately writing what I had trouble putting onto the screen. My father is in the same boat as you. He fortunately just made it to retirement but he was barely hanging on. He has severe documentable back and shoulder problems that sometimes make it hard for him to walk. But then, on wonderful days, he feels good and is able to tend to the yard and go for walks. It’s too inconsistent to work because an employer would never accept an explanation of being able to work some days and not others.
14
@Daniel Savino
I understand exactly what you describe. Happy to hear that your father made it to retirement.
The inconsistency of my disease makes it impossible to commit to a schedule. I am sure that many others have the same issue.
10
@SomewhereintheCaribbean
Thank you. I have it too.
1
Without diving deeply into the merits of using social media as evidence for proving social security fraud it should be noted that just because someone is able to walk around without a limp or without the use of a walker does not mean they are not disabled.
It should also be noted that physical activity can be graded. Many people can do a quick “physically rigorous” chore around the house once a week but to then be asked to do that over and over again in a job would be impossible.
And another thing. Many people with disabilities are mentally disabled in some way. The conundrum of modern psychiatry is that is can help a lot of people lead seemingly normal lives but the level of impairment is still significant and onerous. In other words, don’t jump to conclusions from a social media picture or some hearsay in the neighborhood.
19
I'm a liberal who used to live beside city housing. I had neighbors on disability who went four wheeling and fishing and hunting.
There are blind people who work. There are quadriplegics who work. If you're more disabled than a blind person or someone who can't move their arms and legs, than apply for disability. Otherwise, get to work.
19
The problem is that amongst your liberal friends instead of reality, that they-not you-are so focused on TDS they can’t think straight.
3
@Callie - Those people are probably on SSI (Supplemental Security Income). It's totally different than Social Security Disability. It's paid for out of the general fund, not out of SS funds, and has different eligibility requirements. It's intended for the very poor disabled who've never been able to work long enough to qualify for SSD.
2
This is gonna play Heck on my stunt-man Career.
Thanks, Obama!
4
Rreality Check our government is entitled to protect these benfits . Maybe we the people could do our job an stop buying imports save jobs for those who want to work . I know alot people who like to work but cant find job except their health issues. We live in disposable culture the injured are told no work for them. Ive been there an know first hand its my own fault should take better care of my health. As for our government should make it priorty to use tax dallors for made in usa only. This would promote companys to manufactor in usa an create millions jobs for disabled . These jobs would create jobs pay taxs .just a thought.
4
Talk about a witch-hunt! Paul Manafort has been convicted of failing to pay his income and business taxes. I haven’t heard trump criticize him for not paying his fair share. On the contrary Manafort is still praised by trump. Has trump made a statement decrying the abuses of his cabinet secretaries who were forced off of the government payroll for financial and ethical malfeasance? And now the US treasury is pumping $$millions into US farmers to compensate for ill-advised tariffs.
This will never happen anyway. A distraction and a source of evil fun for an evil, petty man. He and his fat-cat friends need to laugh at and complicate the lives of those less FORTUNEate. He just can’t let a day go by without letting us know how evil and petty he is.
10
Obamacare is the reason the disability rolls are shrinking.
Finally disabled people can work and have health insurance.
But the younger generation of people with disabilities will be cut off from a lot of opportunities their generation has if they are not allowed to use social media as their peers do.
Don't let Donald Trump Do this to our kids.
5
If Donny wants to find a fraud, all he needs to do is look in the mirror.
16
I see TDS is alive and well. Don’t try to solve the problem. Salvation is in hating Trump. That will solve everything. Sad. Unbelievably sad for Americans
4
@Patrick Turner - I hate to break it to you down there in Fort Worth, but Trump isn’t trying to solve any problems either. In fact, he’s creating more of them, particularly with initiatives like this one. But New Yorkers have always known that Trump has an uncanny ability to do that - that, and nothing else. I’ve heard that everything is bigger in Texas: apparently, Texans’ ability to continue to believe that a bankrupt, bigoted, selfish billionaire from the eastern seaboard who can’t speak grammatically correct English is the best person for the presidency is one of the biggest, saddest thing to come out of that state.
6
The problem is that photos capture the activity of a second, not an entire lifestyle. I may post a picture of myself standing in front of a a bunch of trees, but that doesn't mean my back is strong enough for me to return to my work as a forest ranger. A photo of me laughing doesn't mean I'm "over" my significant depression.
17
@10034 This is what I’m thinking too. A snapshot is not a smoking gun. By all means catch fraudulent individuals but all this does is stir up unfounded resentment towards people who are legitimately disabled. There’s a big gap in activity between someone who is capable of activity for 5 minutes and a person capable of working 40 hours a week.
7
Private insurance companies have checked social media for years to able to drop people from disability. People on disability need to be careful what they post. Public posts are available to employers, law enforcement, colleges, high schools, to name a few institutions, for background checks.
6
Using social media is a good place to start. It is certainly the right of the investigators to ask about the back injury that prevents work but allows golf games. Investigators have used photos and videos for a long time in their quest of fraud. Using social media allows them to see the photos without having to go out and do the leg work. People are happy to post their photos for all to see.
In certain areas of the rust belt, many people in some communities are on disability as a substitute for unemployment with doctors falsifying records. Back injuries are an easy one to fake because x-rays never tell the whole story. There can be pain with nothing to see and no pain where the x-rays show abnormalities. Social media seems like a good way to see a person's life on a day to day basis. I know of a teacher on disability who was turned down for more benefits. She also has an MBA, so she is not really unemployable but has been fighting being cut off. One indicator for me that fewer are applying is that I no longer see ads on late night TV for lawyers willing to help you get benefits.
5
Ha ha! The swamp creatures of this administration strike again! The biggest frauds in the world (Hello Donald Trump and the rest of the international criminal operators!) are worried about catching little frauds. MAGA!
This is really rich coming after watching that treacherous creepy crawly creature Paul Manafort suddenly having all sorts of ailments to save him from spending the rest of his life in prison, as he deserves.
10
As a clinical psychologist who spent 13 years evaluating children and adults applying for SSI benefits, I applaud this long overdue decision. From my experience (and that of my colleagues),
about 30% of SSI claimants for mental disability were deliberately attempting to defraud the government--and, in effect, steal money from those who deserved it. These included many, many instances of parents "coaching" their children to deliberately give wrong answers on the IQ test, countless numbers of adults who pretended they "heard voices" in order to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, etc etc. The attempt at fraud was rampant.
22
@WiseNewYorker...
1O million out of 24O million doesn't really seem to be that high of a number to me.
4
Well then why can’t your taxes be increased by 30%-for starters-to help with those millions you don’t seem too worried about. Better yet, send in more in 15 April and REALLY impress me. I suspect that won’t happen in my lifetime
2
Why? Why were these people unable to find jobs? It is not easy to live on Social Security disability.
If we can see the taxes paid by rich then and only then we should be okay with this. I dont understand why poor are fair game in policymaking. Shame on us for becoming heartless bunch. Our children will never forgive us for what we have done to this country in the name of crony capitalism.
10
@AK
They'll never miss the once-Great America made great by the Wealthy -- AND Corporations -- who once paid their Fair Share (in the upkeep of the Commons), in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, because they'll never be taught actual History in our for-Profit 'teaching systems,' busy grooming our dear Progeny for lives of misery, drudgery and hopelessness.
The Rich bought America, fair and square.
THEY own it, and it's totally at Their disposal.
So sorry.
1
My sister is on disability with kidney failure brought on by lupus. While fraud in the program needs to be investigated, they need to be careful using social media to root it out.
My sister is in her mid 20s and this has been quite the ordeal for her. She often posts on social media when she is feeling better. She’ll use a lot of filters too. So anyone just seeing the pic will see a normal healthy young woman which she desperately would like to be. It’s not her reality though.
58
@Ed - My thoughts are with you and your sister. Lupus is scary. I hope her health improves and she can eventually live the life she dreams of living.
4
@Ed
This is not about how a person looks, but pictures/descriptions of what kind of activities are posted.
1
There is no limit to the evil a republican will accept to make their fantasies about those they hate seem to come true.
17
Everyone agrees that disability cheats and fraudsters should be caught and punished. Why isn’t social security
Looking at FB? It’s public and uncensored.
11
Social media investigations resulting in exposure of wrongdoing can cut both ways. For example, here in Northeast PA two local politicians were recently exposed by a reporter and some fellow Facebook contributors. One for making hate filled Islamophobic statements and the other for calling for the assassination of prominent Democrats.
This proposal regarding fake disability claims seems to surface periodically, especially when the heat is on for elected officials who may be conducting themselves in ways that are shady or worse.
There are no doubt people collecting disability who should not be, but having a system that is efficient in identifying them through routine monitoring seems better than opening the Pandora’s box by spying on their privacy.
4
Great idea. And let us find out how much time President Trump actually devotes to being our president. Perhaps we can watch him playing golf or fingering his tweeter-machine. Do we want to pay this guy for his "executive time?" Social media can be used in many ways.
15
i know someone who uses Twitter a lot.....
9
I’m pretty sure the crazy graft in pretty much every department of the Trump administration is costing us a whole lot more. Think we should start checking their social media.
13
Sorry...this is like Big Brother, straight from 1984. Like everything else, there is going to be fraud. We have always lived with it and will continue to do so, make no mistake. But I find this egregious and dictatorial. I am no different than any other tax-paying citizen. I want my dollars to be spent wisely. That means not to enrich our present corrupt administration, its self-serving GOP Congress, and their common agenda...which, believe me, is not for the every day American. That means not using our money that can be spent prudently and elsewhere in order to create a Monument to Trump at our southern borders. As a democratic nation, we can not split hairs or nit-pick. For the most part, our disable are truly in need. For the most part, those on Medicaid rely on it. We seniors depend on our Medicare and Social Security. We can not impugn all because of a few. Get real.
399
@Kathy Lollock. For Kathy, can you believe that there are dishonest people who fake disability? Oh no everyone is honest.
19
@Kathy Lollock
I know plenty of people who collect disability for a bad back who walk miles through the woods carrying heavy gear, climb a tree sit there until they kill a deer, and then drag a 200 pound buck out of the woods. There is plenty of fraud.
44
@Kathy Lollock
I agree with you that "we can not impugn all because of a few," but that is precisely the Republican plan. In their ideal world, no one would get Social Security disability benefits. Trying to stir up anger about isolated cases of fraud is how they pursue that agenda, in the same way that they try to justify voter suppression by whipping up hysteria about voter fraud.
31
Big Brother is watching
6
People who fraudulently claim disability benefits should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Not just because what they are doing is wrong and criminal, but especially because they make it that much harder for all those who are truly unable to work to receive the benefits they deserve, often having paid into Social Security insurance (!) for years or decades.
So, yes, if somebody basically braggs on social media about all the activities they can do while also collecting benefits, let them explain in detail why they are still unable to work despite their posted evidence to the contrary. I know people who had to claim disability benefits due to their poor state of health, and none of them is rock climbing, jet skiing or parachuting - far from it. They are usually grateful if they can make it through the day on their own.
237
While disability fraud is wrong, it pales in comparison to fraud in systems like military spending and other areas that use corporations with lucrative government contracts. It makes already wealthy, corrupt people more wealthy. How do they get away with it and why isn't that the main focus? One word: money.
109
@Pete in Downtown
It is usually extremely difficult to be approved for disability.
24
@Topher S. Agree! Fraud by millionaires or billionaires is equally, if not more despicable. However, what makes defrauding social security so heinous is that it gives those who want to cut benefits easy ammunition, thus hurting those who can't really defend themselves.
27
Come on, people. Someone has to pay for the Golf Trips and the WALL.
Why not the disabled, they probably can't fight back. Literally.
Thanks, GOP. 2020.
68
There are certain disabilities that may not be so obvious, for example, cystic fibrosis. My sister, who was on disability for the last ten years of her life suffered terribly during the winters in MA with the cold and dry air. She tried to spend as much time as she could down in Florida sitting on the beach. The humid warm air was better for her. I would hate for someone to assume she was not sick if she posted a picture of herself sitting on the beach. At that point, her lungs were operating at 30% capacity and she could only walk short distances, but that doesn't show up in a photo.
625
@Meagan. I share your worry about what would be considered "evidence " of being able to work, especially with the current crew in charge. As with all these, reason and common sense should prevail. I am however in favor of challenging somebody who, for example, is collecting disability benefits due to supposed chronic back injuries posting about their participation in a weightlifting competition. And they, apparently, do exist.
29
@Meagan Thanks for illustrating this point about “invisible illness”. As a person with rheumatoid arthritis (an invisible illness), I can relate to this first-hand. I don’t usually “look sick”, therefore people assume that I am fine. What people don’t see is the chronic pain, joint damage, eye inflammation, anemia and loss of strength. Also, many diseases flare and remit or wax and wane. While there are no pain-free days, some days are better than others.
129
@Meagan Meagan, thank you for posting this. According to some of these comments - including to me! - people just do not grasp the concept of hidden disabilities. It is so much more than being in a wheel chair, using a cane, or a walker. I wonder how many know of a new treatment to aid those with PD...boxing. My husband has advanced PD. I can visualize the "stones" that would be thrown his way if a photo of him doing the above showed up on FB. Keep in mind, that this man can not drive or walk anymore.
66
Social security disability false claims have been going on for a long time. It is high time that there should be serious control. Kudos for Mr. Trump’s administration.
12
I’ve been on disability for 10 years. For the last eight there has been no effort at verification. Looking at my Facebook postings is ridiculous. Everything I post is designed to get a laugh. I’m right here. Send an investigator to interview me every 6 months. Follow up if you need to. Periodic verification is common sense. Reading my Facebook postings is spooky.
51
This column informs every disabled person to know that they should delete their Twitter and FaceBook accounts. It also asks a question; will the government require every disabled person to have a FaceBook and Twitter account? The other question; how many disabled people have both of these account?
Shouldn't it be fair that the President should also live with the same inspection of his life that might provide clues to his fraud, and the lack of revealing his tax returns? The government is paying his salary too. And most of us know he has been a fraud his whole life.
30
@Jim
My adult disabled child on SSI with Autism Level 2 gave up on social media years ago due to the abuse he got from others online. He may have speech/language, cognitive and social deficits, but he knows enough to avoid places that cause anxiety.
I doubt they could force him to do something he does not want to do due to his previous experience. This is where we would just point anyone from SSA to talk to the job coach and/or the state case worker.
Though I doubt that will happen because the funding for SSA personnel is woefully underfunded. Been there, done that... I always bring a good book when I visit my local SSA office, because it is often a two hour wait and they do not do appointments except under certain circumstances.
2
@Jim
My adult disabled child on SSI with Autism Level 2 gave up on social media years ago due to the abuse he got from others online. He may have speech/language, cognitive and social deficits, but he knows enough to avoid places that cause anxiety.
I doubt they could force him to do something he does not want to do due to his previous experience. This is where we would just point anyone from SSA to talk to the job coach and/or the state case worker.
Though I doubt that will happen because the funding for SSA personnel is woefully underfunded. Been there, done that... I always bring a good book when I visit my local SSA office, because it is often a two hour wait and they do not do appointments except under certain circumstances.
Edit to add before approval:
We were very reluctant to apply for SSI benefits for our child. This was because his father had issues with SSA Survivors Benefits he received from the death of his father at a young age. While in high school he got a job, and there were issues reporting his income from age fifteen though seventeen. It was the 1970s, and was resolved after a while.
But the state's Dept. of Social and Health Services facilitated the application because getting SSI would help with getting a supported job for our son. Which is why he has a job coach. Also he gets a minimal amount because we refuse to play the "room and board" game, which SSA is okay with.
2
I cannot fathom how any rational (operative word) libertarian and/or Republican could tolerate this intrusion by government into the private lives of millions of American citizens.
The same would apply to the Edward Snowden- driven anti-government spying contingent on the left.
In other words, we should all be afraid of this new giant step toward authoritarian rule, drag-nets pulling in everyone in the alleged pursuit of a few.
What's next, tracking everyone's social media for spending on vacations or vehicles or children's education or porn, just to pull in a few tax cheats or folks with some ill-begotten booty?
This is exponentially more sweeping and dangerous than the NSA collecting, sans warrant or with, the phone numbers of millions of Americans and monitoring the lines for calls.
Having the federal government monitoring social media using social security numbers will not only open up your phone to the government, but it will also be the key to opening up your entire life.
Any American who's not brain dead or willfully ignorant must surely realize that, in the Trump administration, actions like these aren't tools for an agency, they're steps in a government-wide strategy.
Trump is using the federal government to replace Roy Cohn and Michael Cohen, his previous "fixers".
22
Now that health insurers must provide coverage, many people with disabilities are able to leave the Social Security and welfare systems.
People with disabilities do use social media to network and look for jobs, and to showcase the abilities they do have.
These are people who were locked out of the job market because private health insurers would not cover them, and they would lose their public health benefits if they took a job.
Obamacare has made it possible for these people to leave the disability rolls.
Now, I am not a fan of social media for the purpose of maintaining social relationships, and I think it is something that has done more to divide than unite people.
However, social media can be a way for people to look for jobs, and for homebound people to participate in political activism.
If this is taken away from people with disabilities, we will all suffer.
8
What a mean world we live in. Trump et al are determined to make everyone but themselves pay and pay and pay. Wonder if it’s to pay for their tax cuts? Do we get to see how they use that particular benefit?
7
Tell you what, all you phony conservatives. As soon as you take the evil buffoon who currently resides in the White House to task for his lying, cheating and disregard for the office of the presidency, then I'll support you.
Deal??
Naw, didn't think so ...
11
Big Brother will soon be watching all of us, all the time.
12
Social media posts should not by themselves be a sufficient basis to deny benefits, but I see nothing wrong with using them as leads to guide further investigation. When I was on active military duty years ago one of my assignments was representing the government in hearings on disability retirement claims. In many cases, it didn't take much investigation to find levels of activity that were totally inconsistent with the claims (I want to be clear that I was not dealing with claims by anyone who had served in combat). It wouldn't surprise me to find a similar level of fraud in social security disability claims.
18
@Joel----FB and Twitter are wonderful outlets for the emotionally and mentally disabled cannot cope in real life. As for the physically disabled, I would compare FB photo posts to that of photo listings on Match or Craigslist dating sites......what you see is usually not what you get.
Big Brother is watching, but it’s totally fine because at least the stated rationale is easy to digest.
Good thing we’ve never had to deal with unintended consequences before.
7
I once defended a civil suit in which the plaintiff said he was totally and permanently disabled from a fall from a ladder.
I found social media posts in which he complained about how hard he had to work -- over a year after he alleged to have been disabled from the fall -- replacing sewer lines and installing a swimming pool at his home, and others where he made arrangements to work for cash while his case was pending.
I defended another case in which a woman claimed to be totally disabled from a back condition, but posted on her Facebook page photos from her long trips on her Harley.
How is ripping off the taxpayers any different than those examples?
179
@Didier. It is not any different. If anything, it's worse. Fraudulent claims lead to ever tighter scrutiny and longer waits, requiring multiple appeals of the unavoidable initial denials. This leaves many who are truly unable to work in limbo for years, or simply unable to pursue their rightful claims. Especially for people with significant mental health issues, applying for disability is almost a Catch 22: if you're able to work through the long and arduous process (by yourself) , you're at risk to be deemed too healthy to qualify.
21
@Didier Come on. You are being dishonest. You provide 2 anecdotes about people who "claim" to be disabled. That does not equate to them collecting federal social security disability; where all allegations have to proven my doctors.
19
@Didier
Easy Peasy, Just like the illegal immigrant problem.
Go after the ringleaders. The doctors and lawyers that produce the most fraudulent claims! Start with warnings, then go to official reprimands with public records available for public access, then large fines and repercussions against licensees. They would vet their clients much better.
9
Rarely do i agree with any idea that comes out of the insane Trump administration, but disability fraud is so rampant that something has to be done.
Should expand this idea to government pensioners, who experience a huge pop if they can claim disability (sometimes to 100% of pre-retirement salary). Betcha good portion of cops, firefighters, and railroad workers on "disability" are scamming the system at the expense of taxpayers.
20
I'm fine with this as long as the private sector does the same investigations.
@Garbanzo what you are describing is not social security disability.
@Linda No, it's not. But it's a disability "sweetener" on public pensions. If the government is trying to root out fraud, just another variant on the problems (albeit overseen by different agencies).
1
I know, I know
As 'holier than thou' liberals we all believe that we are the champions of the downtrodden even if they are suckling at the governments measly teats; but a significant minority of SSDI are borderline if not fraudulent.
As ex-private practice Physician, I'd have people regularly show up with back pain, chronic pains, patients with real but mild emphysema who'd state that they couldn't walk the 3 steps into their home, while their oxygen levels were normal on a stress test.
It was an unpleasant uphill battle fighting these folks off and disheartening to find that the eventually did get their 'letters' from some other practice.
21
@jack
Glad that are not longer making money by pretending you care about patients!
6
What indicates that Jack didn’t care about patients? The fact that he had integrity, gave them an honest assessment, and did not exaggerate their illnesses? I’m sure lying to gain more claims would have helped his business and bottom line.
“Caring” does not mean lying to help someone gain a benefit they are not legally entitled to claim.
15
I think we have to accept the idea that some people cannot work.
1
As a life long liberal, I must state that this issue is one that sticks in my craw and makes me wonder if I’m actually more conservative than I care to admit. In my extended family alone there are no less than 4 people collecting disability benefits. At least one is too lazy to collect a real paycheck. Two are veterans who supposedly were so negatively affected by their military experience that they convinced someone that they have severe PTSD. (One barely made it out of basic training and my theory is that he simply didn’t want to be told what to do.) The last, and I’m not joking, is so fat that she can’t walk. Really! I’m disgusted by this blatant abuse of the system. All four of these people are not only capable of working but SHOULD be working. Instead they take and take and take while giving nothing back. And by the way, two are liberal and the other two voted for trump so this is not relegated to party preferences. If I were king for a day I would mandate that NO ONE gets anything for free. You need help? I’m all about helping. But regardless of one’s “disability”, if my tax dollars are footing your cable bill and potato chips, I want something in return that will place value on the help you’re receiving and encourage you to remain an active participant in our society. Forgive the rant but something must be done to change this mentality.
310
@Miguel Miguel
Turn them in
It’s the right thing to do
16
@Miguel Miguel "The last, and I’m not joking, is so fat that she can’t walk. Really!" We believe you.
The lifespan of those morbidly obese like your relative who cannot walk, (meaning she is disabled), have dramatically reduced life expectancy, and all suffer from contributing diseases and a very low quality of life. Among whites, morbid obesity reduces life expectancy by 13 years on average, among blacks and Hispanics, by 20 years. So, take solace in knowing your relative will soon be dead after many really awful illnesses and therefore will no longer collect disability payments from taxes she paid.
As to your other relatives. It is very difficult for anyone to get psychiatric disability status, like those who have PTSD from military service. The criteria is extremely strict, especially for any not receiving long term in-patient care in a psychiatric facility. No one seeking to take advantage of any system they paid into with their tax dollars would voluntarily choose to be confined to a psychiatric facility unless they are truly ill, no matter what you say.
Further, constant governmental reviews and reassessments are done on all who are on psychiatric disability. It means it is effectively impossible for someone who does not have a psychiatric disability to be found to be disabled and stay on disability. A non-professional opinion about how mentally ill people with PTSD are actually just lazy is exactly what those who want to render the mentally ill homeless say.
112
So well said. I’m moderate and I think this issue often isn’t about right or left but smart and virtuous and the opposite of those qualities.
People, even on the left ( wow) value hard work. You think the people in the rich suburbs of NYC who vote blue don’t work hard?
25
Sounds par for this government, who have a President that does not act or sound Presidential.
The White House is more concerned with a few fake disability claims, than a government full of unqualified, incompetent appointees who are actively working against the best interests of most Americans.
9
Great idea from the Trump admin to use social media to catch SSDI cheaters. However, and first, I'll get behind this idea right after the plan to catch ALL the millionaire cheaters who are not on the IRS radar; like Manafort and Cohen. If not for Trump being President they would have stayed under the radar for their financial crimes.
So, after we start nailing the millionaires and billionaires criminals, like Trump, then I say let's turn the spotlight on SSDI cheaters.
105
This has already been a standard for Insurance companies to dispute disability claims, both short term and long term disability. Insurance claims adjusters have the legal right to deny your claim based on your Facebook posts. The government wants to do the same now.
10
People post all sorts of things about themselves on FB that aren’t true. I see a lot of wasted resources trying to track down a small percentage of cheats.
6
As the lawyer advises his able-bodied clients collecting disabilities not to post pictures of themselves playing Frisbee, I want to advise my retired fire captain neighbor in Staten Island who has for 10 years been collecting over $80,000 per year in disability payments for a back injury, not to compete in the NYC marathon this year as he has annually done (without a wheel chair).
127
@Artur Exactly. Public employees scamming the system for far higher returns than private citizens. Shouldn't just deny their benefits -- send them to jail for fraud.
23
Touché, FDNY notorious for bogus claims.... my dad was an ex engine guy Brooklyn so I heard the inside track. There was talk of Special prep for the lung function tests!
13
@Artur
So why haven't you turned him in?
13
What could go wrong here? Except everything.
24
This IS a dangerous idea: The government should not be spying on anyone, though we know they probably do. Lawmakers who deny people their disability payments have too much spare time on their hands. You can be sure that plenty of mistakes will be made tracking accounts. Where do we live? Russia?
22
@Peter ERIKSON Here’s a suggestion: don’t post on social media if you’re committing fraud.
15
I just crossed 70.
And recently successfully applied online for my benefits to start coming in. I get my very first one next Wednesday - third Wednesday of March.
While filling application on line - I was very conscious that I was providing truthful answers because it tells you right there the penalties for lying or cheating.
So, hard for me to believe that folks cheat or lie on these applications.
And those who do need to be dealt with severely.
As to social media - I am surprised folks say it's not believable.
All studies show that if anything - most folks think the only thing they trust is social media.
Even this kid who got vaccinated over his mother's opposition said his mother instinctively believes Fakebook.
So, for social security administration - to use this most universal tool - more power to them.
If you are lying on Fakebook - someone is bound to comment to the contrary - that's more than enough to deny these fraudulent benefits.
4
@Neil - At 70, you've already passed full retirement age. Why would you be applying for disability rather retirement benefits?
2
Some numbers for clarity's sake - per the Social Security Administration, about 4.5% of the 18-64 eligible population are on disability, which comes to about 13 million folks receiving about $1200 month (for more detail see SSA stats):
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quickfacts/stat_snapshot/
Assuming 99% of these claims are legitimate, that still leaves 130,000 people that are ineligible and currently receiving payments, at a cost to us of nearly $1.9 billion annually. There is an entire ecosystem of lawyers, professional advocates and medical professionals supporting those that really need these payments (and those that seek payments without a legitimate claim).
I don't want to see anyone needlessly harassed but we need to manage these services effectively so that everyone that needs this can be supported.
19
@Mister Mxyzptlk And how much will investigating people based on their social media accounts cost? I was on SSDI and if you think it’s easy to get you don’t know how the system works. It took reams of documentation and was one of the most difficult and demeaning processes I’ve ever been through. My lawyer told me that many disabled people don’t get the benefits they need because the system is so difficult to access that they give up. We give away billions in corporate welfare to very successful businesses but God forbid that an average person can get a benefit they qualify for without jumping through fifty hoops first.
503
@Cindy Mackie Isn't it interesting that ME has the highest rate of SSI disability in the entire US, about 7% (or more) of the eligible population (almost 2x the national average):
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/di_asr/2016/sect01.html
But I'm sure your claim was legitimate and I sympathize with the challenges you faced in getting your claim approved. Having dealt with the VA and the IRS I can only imagine what you went through. That being said, I think we can agree that fraud in all its forms is a bad thing (corporate or individual) and should be vigorously investigated and prosecuted when warranted.
5
@Cindy Mackie Demeaning is the best way to describe the application process.
5
Readers should be aware there are two distinct types of federal disability payments. One is for those who have paid in to the social security system for a minimum number of quarters whose payments are based on their earnings, and a separate system for those who have not paid in long enough (or at all) and whose monthly disability payment is a set amount, regardless of any income they may have had.
I know there is some fraud in both programs but the two programs are very different. By its very nature, the second program includes many people who never have worked and who never will be able to work. On the other hand, it also includes many people who choose it as a way of life.
The term "on disability" applies to many people with many ills in various programs. Let's not paint them all with this particular broad brush.
11
This from the party that fears government intrusion into our lives. How about we see Trump's tax returns first?
464
@theresa
You don’t know the difference between the government taking and a person taking from the public? The difference between an obligation everyone has to pay taxes and a choice to request money from the government? Let’s see your tax return! If we demand that one government employee’s tax private return be made public, then let us make all government employee’s tax returns public!
4
I want to see Trump’s tax returns desperately but the Republican conduct in this article and your comment illustrate the hyper partisan divide.
It’s not one or the others. There are many articles on Trump’s returns. Does it make sense when republicans comment and demand information on disability payments?
5
@KBronson
theresa wanted Trump's tax return, as is customary for presidential candidates.
8
This would be so sad, and would destroy job opportunities for people with disabilities, as nowadays many people use Facebook to network and look for jobs, or to try to build a following to get advertising deals, which are job opportunities that people with disabilities can explore from home.
Also, Facebook and Instagram are not the appropriate places to look when trying to find out what is going on with people's private lives.
Even some of the phones automatically photoshop pictures now, so that people cannot post unaltered photos even when they would like to do so.
Then of course there are criminals who use social media to commit identity theft and other kinds of fraudulent activity.
Facebook and other social media are no more real than photos in the pages of magazines.
There is nothing at all wrong with advertising, art, or fantasy creations, but let's not confuse these things with radiology reports and other scientific evidence.
3
@Julie
If people can work, why do they need SSDI? Two of the qualifications for the benefit are the inability to perform work done in the past, and the inability to perform other types of work.
1
Sounds a lot like something from 1984, no? I guess for now it’ll be to catch SSiD fraud but later it’ll be used to find out if your gay or what party you support. I understand the reasoning behind the thinking to use social media to verify X but where will the line be drawn?
35
They already used fb to determine political leanings.
2
Good news at last.
6
@Ross Salinger LOL
No objection here to using social media posts to expose fraud. I believe in and support Social Security for disabled people, but I'm also pay taxes, and fraud is fraud.
206
@Ethan And if you KNOW someone is committing fraud please turn them in. I believe they have a process for people to do that. Remember a lot of disabilities don’t show and if you don’t see that person’s medical records you don’t know what’s going on.
17
@Ethan
Would it be we could state that we also wish to put energy
into defense department payments fraud and waste in the military ,they have a greater budget with almost no one watching. Bad decisions in the armed forces (Trumps attack on an empty airbase with hundreds of cruise missiles that did zero)at a million or more dollars each by the US Navy in Syria is just one example, Trumps flying to and fro to his Florida home and NJ golf course ,is that wasted dishonest money to some?
14
@Ethan,
Then what's to prevent the NSA from spying on Social Security recipients in the name of rooting out fraud?
2
The first twitter feed to expose corruption would be Trumps
48
@Jim. What a stupid idea. Is he collecting disability?
3
Yeah but fraud? Why do you think he won’t release his tax returns?
4
I had a sister who received these benefits. She was born with congenital physical deformities and severe intellectual deficiencies. She could not speak, read ; communicated in only primitive noises. Some people are very disabled and those benefits helped to support her until she died at age 52.
Between her condition and that of people who are committing deliberate fraud there is a lot of territory. And not everyone who becomes disabled is born disabled. And I've read that all applications are denied initially regardless of merit just as a stalling tactic. Because benefits are not retroactive. But eventually you are given a hearing.
I don't feel sorry for anyone who is committing fraud and gets outed on social media. But I have general privacy concerns about all of these developments. The whole thing can be manipulated. And I think that it is an important enough circumstance that an actual hearing with fair representation should continue to be a right and expectation.
21
@Consuelo Yes, generally all first applications are denied. Sometimes it takes two or three times and constant diligence to be approved. What's unfortunate is that that in many cases one needs legal representation to push the application through; up to $6,000 is then taken out of the SSDI award before accrued benefits are paid. If you've been out of work for years due to disability (on medical leave or unemployed), you are entitled to certain wage replacement from the date of disability. So even though you may receive SSDI benefits via help of legal counsel, you pay a premium to do so, and that's not fair. This is not gaming the system but being resourceful--not everyone is able to do so.
3
@Consuelo
The benefits are retroactive to the beginning of the disability that made work impossible. That's the money that lawyers get a big chunk of for helping the claim. What's sad is that the whole process is so intimidating that lawyers are necessary for many applicants. I was able to get benefits awarded without going up the hearings ladder, but that's unusual.
3
@Amoret
The maximum SS goes back is 12 months. I had no earnings for 3 years and it didn't matter.
1
There are so many people we know in our social network who receive social security disability and are not truly disabled. They jog, ride motorcycles, and partake in many fairly strenuous fun Leisure activities. Appears SS does not to investigate true need or have a policy of recertification. Back injuries and disabling mental issues are particularly suspect.... we can and must do better and provide support for those truly in need.
36
I know someone who was disabled due to mental illness and on social security disability. It was terrible. She could jog but she could not hold down a job.
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@Marie Walsh I'd be careful about judging who is "truly disabled". Unless you are a physician who is qualified to make that determination, it's likely you don't know all the processes that go into making such a determination. Being totally or partially disabled does not automatically mean you no longer want to have fun. And being totally or partially disabled doesn't mean that you have to stop living or going to the store to shop for food. And being disabled certainly doesn't mean you need to explain anything or look a certain way to your nosey, judgmental social network acquaintance.
78
These peeps are bragging about their scam.... I know at least 3. So I don't have to be careful. It is what it is .
2
I can see how it might be tempting to use social media as a starting point for an investigation into fraud. But as the article notes, this can be problematic. In the case of mental health issues, it may be hard or impossible to tell from social media if, say, a person has a debilitating social phobia or anxiety. In any event, the mere discussion of this idea is going to be enough to turn some people off to social media. This discussion comes at a time when social media is already struggling to regain users' trust.
72
@Dan Frazier. I agree. Even if a post on social media seems to suggest that a person is not or not that severely disabled, the circumstances are very important. Somebody with mental illness participating in a walk should be congratulated, not harassed.
I am however in favor of challenging people on disability to provide evidence if their postings on social media seem to contradict the basis for their claim. For example, a person supposedly disabled due to "chronic back pain" rock climbing or weightlifting. Such a person also makes a mockery out of those who really. are disabled due to severe chronic back pain, which is a truly debilitating condition.
5
@Dan Frazier
If a person is receiving SSDI because of debilitating social phobia or anxiety but according to social media, attends multiple parties nightly as an "influencer," I would think the inconsistency would raise questions. Perhaps it could be explained away, perhaps not.
7
@Dan Frazier
"This discussion comes at a time when social media is already struggling to regain users' trust."
You are being sarcastic, aren't you? "Trust" and "social media" should,n't appear on the same page, never mind the same sentence.
14
I've been on SSDI as a disabled person and I fully support this initiative. Applications for Social Security Disability Income are cyclical: they increase as the economy worsens. If the government can root out illegitimate claims for benefits, all the more power to it. I am sure the commentariat for the Times are against this on the grounds that all applicants for SSDI are equally legitimate (spoiler: they aren't!) but the Social Security trust fund has to be protected against malingerers who don't want to work.
191
@Uncommon Wisdom - I believe that cases of genuine SSDI fraud should be stopped. Those who commit fraud are wrecking the system for those who genuinely need it, and they should be prosecuted.
That being said, I don’t think the Trump team’s proposed trolling of social media is the best way to go about this. This is not how government policy is supposed to work, and this is certainly not working in the best interests of the genuinely disabled. Besides, how is some Trump administration crackpot supposed to determine, with accuracy and fairness, who is genuinely disabled and who isn’t, and the limits of said disability, by studying a Facebook photo? Some disabilities, such as psychiatric ones, aren’t visible. What then?
I agree with the need to oust from the SSDI rosters people who don’t want to seek employment, but this has to be done in an intelligent way, and looking for people out having a good time on social media is not the way to do this because the net is so wide that any disabled person who isn’t bedridden and catatonic is likely to end up accidentally caught in it. Aside from the obvious privacy concerns such activity raises, we all know by now the Trump administration’s penchant for doing a shoddy job of things (see the families separated at the border as an example). They’ll no doubt make a mess of this if they do it this way and then will throw up their collective hands and move on to something else, while millions of vulnerable people twist in the wind.
26
Democrats need to get behind using social media and any other legal device to catch SS disability fraud. It is public info after all. Social media has been used in NYC as evidence in police force disability fraud cases. Why should we allow fellow citizens to so easily defraud the tax payers? And that $3.4billion in annual fraud is a low guesstimate. You are fooling yourself if you don't think there is massive fraud in this area.
158
@David Binko. Agree. Except I don't call those individuals fellow citizens - they're crooks, plain and simple.
6
@David Binko
When people have complained to me about relatives that were cheating the system and I suggested turning them in they said they couldn't do that because that would be being a tattle-tale. And these were conservatives, not Democrats. So please don't act like its the Democrats that need convincing!
8
@David Binko
It's not public info if the inquirer bypassed privacy settings or friended someone to get it.
7
Why not just put cameras in peoples' houses, and RF chips in everyone's wrist and have done with it?
Absolutely repulsive use has been made of our personal data, and now the governments wants to aid and abet these same organizations?
61
"cameras in peoples' houses, and RF chips in everyone's wrist"
Seems everyone's doing the first on their own with central-server-linked home monitoring systems like Ring. Watcha bet how long before they start offering credit monitoring too? I give it a month. Tops.
And with Real[Creepy]ID soon coming to effect, your driver license or state ID will have RF and be readable to any Russian or NSA breacher! Close enough to your wrist for government work.
"and now the governments wants to aid and abet these same organizations?"
Already have, what with Facebook and Twitter's execs still in mansions instead of prisons somehow. Zuck and the Twits are as creepy a GOP asset as ever.
3
@ms- People voluntarily post their photos and videos everywhere. Nobody is twisting their arms to do so. Investigators already take surveillance photos. If people are stupid enough to post incriminating photos, they deserve to get caught.
4
@ms. I am very protective of my privacy. However, if somebody posts about their activities in what are, after all, social (public) media, that information is fair game. Showing off an activity one is supposedly unable to do (and hence collecting disability) is brazingly stupid. That is much different from 24 hour monitoring, something we reserve for convicted felons.
3
It's rather rich of Mr. Trump -- a man who cheats contractor and million of students via Trump U -- to accuse others of cheating. It's part of his usual pattern though of attacking the weakest members of society even -- as the article mentions -- SSDI applications have plunged by 30% over the last decade.
As a physician with patients and family members who are disabled and receive SSDI, I think it is fine and appropriate to investigate fraud but social media is not the way to come to conclusions. Many chronic illnesses fluctuate such that people who are able to do a bit of socializing one day or one hour can't do it the next day or the next hour like a healthy person. A one-time snapshot doesn't show you the hours or days that person wasn't out of bed or their chair or their house. Not to mention that being disabled shouldn't preclude you from participating in the parts of life you can and finding some joy. In fact, mental health professionals often encourage patients to socialize as it has both mental and physical health benefits.
We treat sickness and illness like it's a crime/ controllable weakness in this society whether it's losing your job, health insurance, or disability benefits. When I was in Europe, I was surprised to see various programs and private businesses that offer discounts to disabled people with the EU "pink" card. We do no such thing in the US: people must be punished instead.
312
@ms. No, fraud must be punished.
4
@ms
Social media is employed by insurers to weed out people who abuse the system. I've worked in healthcare, and I have seen people not get enough assistance as well others abuse the system.
While I abhor Trump, recognizing that disability abuse exists, and needs to be addressed if we are to keep benefits available for those who need it. One would hope that government would address this without Trump's input.
8
@Deb There was a whole NPR series on SSDI fraud about 2-3 years ago. The series was biased and had to be clarified multiple times. In the end, the rate of fraud was much lower than people think it is -- sort of like voter fraud.
As a young healthcare professional, in my past, I too inherited biases about disability but my work and my personal experiences over time corrected some of that.
27
As snarky as it may seem, the great ironic twist here is that social media as utilized by Trump with his tweets clearly exposes disability.
127
For a party that wants to shrink and limit government's involvement in the lives of its citizens, this certainly is the way to do it. Unreal!
51
As a former chief of SSA's continuing eligibility policy section, I am pretty sure that people cannot be removed from the disability rolls on the basis of a photograph. Perhaps an investigation could be initiated through one, but termination must be based on medical examination or work activity. I doubt that anyone who understands program administration would think that scanning social media is worth the effort.
102
@Russell C. Brown
That anyone involved in the current Administration and specifically with this proposal “understands program administration would think” is a very long shot.
5
@Russell C. Brown
That anyone involved in the current Administration and specifically with this proposal “understands program administration” OR “would think” is a very long shot.
5
@Russell C." ...termination must be based on medical examination or work activity. Work activity is precisely what a review of online post is often likely to reveal.
3
Micky, Micky, of course disability is part of social security. Grownups have known for sometime now. Every adult knows of someone, a friend, relative or even a neighbor who relies on their disability check to navagate life and pay for food. Please don't think we all are ill informed as you.
4Looking for cheaters is important, but we also know of at least one of upper class who cheated on his taxes. He only got 4 years, but was made to pay back millions. Maybe there is more bang for the buck in looking for tax cheaters?
19
You have to be a real work of art to think up this idea.
8
The Trump administration should monitor it's staff members before hounding those suffering from disabilities. Trump feels sad that his former campaign manager was convicted of fraud, but he is gung ho about catching suspected irregularities in disability claims. Where is equal justice for all.
75
@Tom: whether you like Trump or not is irrelevant. Stealing social security benefits deprives those who are truly entitled to them.
9
The proposed activities are another assault by the Republican Party to reduce government expenditures and make more available to reward donors, contributors, and businesses with additional tax benefits.
If people are defrauding disability regulations, then hire additional investigators and administrative law judges.
45
Part of being disabled would be to post to Facebook how sick you are and cannot even walk to the mailbox without severe pain. Just keep that up with pictures showing the same thing. Maybe government would even increase your payments?
9
Let's see Trumps tax returns first.
96
@Two in Memphis; separate issue.
8
Hahaha, great idea.
3
@Two in Memphis. Why?
8
Aside from the use of social media to snare the offending culprits (which I do agree with, going after those committing fraud), I am amused that Trump at one time stated he would not cut disability benefits, yet, here he is now proposing such cuts.
Perhaps if we cut the fraudulent payments to Trump's enterprises by government officials we can afford more money into social security benefits.
11
@Dan
"Trump at one time stated he would not cut disability benefits, yet, here he is now proposing such cuts
No, not really.
Eliminating payments that should not have been made in the first place is not the same as cutting disability benefits.
6
What I am wondering is how this proposal would deprive millions of the constitutional right to due process? Also, how are hearings going to be less fair and efficient? Seems to me, it would be more efficient for the government than following them around. I personally know people on disability that as my friend says “are disabled by choice”.
13
@Jim The reference to due process relates to a hearing held via closed circuit video without a face to face hearing with the decision maker. It isn't directed to use of social media. Having experienced many hearings in person and on video (in a different context than social security), my opinion is that a hearing in person provides clues as to the condition and even character of the applicant that is not seen on video.
4
@Jim
Are you in their body?
3
@Jim: everybody knows fakers -- something like 7% of the population on SSDI and 2 out of 3 are obvious fakes...........