Canada brought this upon herself by selling citizenship to practically anyone from China with money.
22
Weng's difficulties are exacerbated by the fact the Chinese are perpetrating the world's largest transfer of wealth through outright intellectual property theft. She may not personally be involved in that effort but it is infuriating the Chinese government and their hackers think they have a right to anything they want, while restricting freedoms of people. I've learned to never trust a Chinese company or a Chinese government statement and assume any of their achievements are stolen. I'm well read in this subject and feel great anger.
26
Tobacco companies cause lots of deaths so can they be arrested in different countries? This arrest is really an effort by big telecom to undermine a raising company.
5
I am concerned by the lack of historical specificity in this article. To group all Chinese residents in Canada under the banner of persecuted immigrant is wrong. As the article notes, B.C. has a loathsome and violent history of discrimination against Chinese, especially those who first arrived at the turn of the last century to work on the railways and in the mines. Beginning in the mid-late 1980's, there was another wave of immigration, this time from educated professionals in Hong Kong in advance of 1997. In the mid-2000's, the mainland Chinese arrived and began purchasing not just residential property en mass, but resource extraction industries (tar sands, gas, mining, etc). The issue is that mainland Chinese have quickly established an oligarchical status here in Vancouver. They own and control an immense amount of wealth - which is often displayed ostentatiously, not only in the giant McMansions, but the Lamborginis and Maseratis that their 16 year old sons drive - and yet, they don't really live and work here and many pay little or no taxes (As Andy Yan's research attests). In this regards, the discrimination they face is tempered through the lens of wealth. It is entirely different from the historical discrimination suffered by working class Chinese in Vancouver.
37
A lot of the public fascination with the case has little to do with its merits. Historical wrongs have motivated those identifying with how ethnic Chinese were treated as a sign that nothing has changed on Meng's side. Opposed is a large middle class shut out of the housing market that have latched onto the fact a billionaire's daughter can post bail and hire expensive lawyers to stay under house arrest in a mansion. None of those things matter to the fact the US has built a case against Huawei and that Canada's judiciary is respecting the extradition agreement by examining the evidence based on its merits. Regardless of popular opinion, or the perception of unfairness or "injury" to those taking sides on the issue outside of its merits, the judiciary will rule based on the facts. The hostage taking by the Chinese government only serves to galvanize a solid majority of Canadians against Huawei and Chinese investment. Even now, there are people in my neighborhood in Richmond, BC going door-to-door asking for signatures to ban foreign investment in the housing market, another to boycott Huawei technology and still others for boycotts on Chinese-made goods all together. Had China played it cool, and not tried to bludgeon its way into foreign policy with threats and illegal arrests, the vitriol would likely be far less prevalent. If the goal was to disrupt cohesion of a community, too bad, my multicultural community (despite disagreement) are still very friendly.
18
A great many Canadians are very angry at the U.S. for forcing this situation on Canada.
It's becoming more and more obvious that the U.S. request for extradition is political in nature and Donald Trump has been quite unequivocal about using Meng as a bargaining chip in his dealings with China over trade.
It's also becoming more and more obvious that the United States is trying to prevent Huawei from achieving success in 5G.
The United States now considers Canada a "national security threat" resulting in tariffs on aluminum and steel and seems intent on creating a huge rift between Canada and China.
With friends like this, who needs enemies?
12
Let Sheryl Sandberg be arrested somewhere in the world for wrongdoing by FB (and there is more than a little sailing too close to the wind by them...) and let's see America's reaction, given its routine over-extension of domestic politics to the world at large.
11
I don't see this case in terms of China versus Canada versus the United States versus China. It's about the globalized oligarchy being able to command the justice system of each country to do its bidding. A very wealthy person who is probably enmeshed in tech espionage is able to avoid jail, hire large numbers of lawyers to fight every step of the way, and views her detention as an opportunity to read novels and maybe get a PhD (another opportunity for more spying, yay!). In the meantime, people with less money are sitting in Chinese jails, being treated who knows how poorly, and fearing for their lives. Nothing screams "oligarchy" louder than this case. Except maybe the Trump family investigation. Or the Saudi prince who murdered a journalist. Or Vladimir Putin's government-sponsored murders of his political opponents...
27
China routinely mobilizes Chinese people in Canada and other countries; for protests and other actions to support the position of the Chinese Govt. If they don't, their relatives in China will pay the price. Thousands of Chinese in Canada have attacked, bullied, threatened a Tibetan student who won a student election at University of Toronto because she spoke out against the Chinese invasion and complete take-over of Tibet.
31
@D.S.Barclay Is that so? Then, good.
There are some inaccuracies in this article as concerns Vancouver real estate and Meng's house in the Dunbar neighborhood. Vancouver house prices as so expensive that they have disported the actual significance of this place. According to a comment elsewhere from a weekly visitor to the house before Meng's purchase it currently is worth about 5.5 million dollars. That sounds like a lot to most folk (as it surely should) and so points to Meng having an opulent lifestyle while out on bail. But this is hardly a mansion. In fact, all everyday older houses in good condition on a lot that size in the same neighborhood will all go for more than three million. On a smaller, 33 foot wide lot they will all be above two million.
12
The real estate prices in Van affected my career decisions. I was educated in Vancouver and would have loved to stay and accept a position at UBC however we as a family cannot afford to live there. Now the Asian influence is extending to where we live now and is pushing up prices past what the younger generation will be able to afford. I imagine that the realtors and associated businesses are ecstatic about this. The greed and shortsightedness is depressing, and in this case I am disappointed that the powers that be did not step in 40 years ago to prevent the current situation. We bought a highly inflated house in my opinion with the assurances that it would continue to appreciate. The whole house buying process here was highly stressful because of the current situation. We were able to buy a house in Cali in a market that was different which was a whole different experience. With regards to the extradition, obviously she has the money to be housed as she is.
11
I think that since Meng has been arrested for a crime that she does have the right to her property and life while awaiting trial. It is unfair that a person with little wealth would not get to stay in such a lavish lifestyle. I think it is commendable that the Canadians are treating her according to the manner that their laws dictate for someone that has been accused of a crime. The fact that Vancouver may be bought by foreigners or that Meng was in the country as a super rich person has to do with other laws that could be changed to make everyday lives of the Canadians better and fairer.
It is important to recognize that China is not a country we want to emulate in their politics, economics, or social policy. I think it is unfair that Canadian and US governments have not and do not protect us from the differences in our economic policies. Though I certainly have and do continue to benefit from the low cost of goods from China. It is also true that these goods are now causing larger problems with disposal and pollution.
8
If the detainee was an American business person caught up in a foreign country due to geopolitics, the tone of the article would be different. China want to have its own China Dream, just like us. The USA cannot contain China's right to rise.
5
I’m not surprised that the rich lady gets extraordinary treatment while on bail, although I’m disappointed that the Canadian judicial system seems as lopsided on this matter as is the US. Money talks. Poor people rot in prison — literally true in China, Russia and other totalitarian states — while the rich live at home with 24/7 police coverage, or at a “ country club” prison, all on the public’s dime. The term “minimum security prison” wasn’t coined to describe flight risk; it’s about clientele with money.
What does surprise me is that Vancouver has been bought and overrun with Chinese nationals, whether to hide fortunes in real estate or hide from their own government, who then use their new and unusual freedoms to critique the host nation. Canada and Canadians, friendly, trusting, honest to a fault, the folks who bravely got our hostages out of Iran, can’t afford to love in Vancouver and have to listen to how cruel they are from Chinese guests. Doesn’t seem right.
46
I have come to think that this whole anti-Huawei (and generally speaking anti-Chinese) hysteria by the US is the tacit admission of the fact, that the Chinese have leapfrogged the Americans in high technology and not just in 5G.
Huawei is just a convenient scapegoat.
5
Leapfrogging by stealing and reverse engineering. The United States is just waking up to the fact that the Chinese government encourages its citizens abroad whether studying or working to funnel all intellectual property back for favor status back home. That favored status comes in many forms such as preferred housing, schooling and other perks that only a totalitarian government can provide and demand.
20
@Doubting Thomas.
Illicit acquisition of knowledge has been around since the beginning of the industrial revolution. China didn't invent it and others, including the United States practiced it as well. Nobody is innocent. I'm not saying it's OK, but it is a fact.
6
Rule of Law means Rule of Law. It doesn't matter that Ms. Meng is from China, just as it doesn't matter if she was from the U.S., Ireland, Zimbabwe. Canada has an extradition treaty with our neighbour to the south, which we respect and fully adhere to. Unlike in China, where I'm quite confident none of the detained Canadians there get anywhere near the same level of fair treatment. Let's not make this about anything more than it is.
231
I was wondering if the US law is designed to punish a Chinese executive with Hong Kong passport who change her flight in Canada for something she did (perhaps) in Iran? If Trump administration hates Iran but loves Saudi, why should every other nation follow him?
9
I worked in two separate major service provider production and pre-production labs in Europe in 2009-2010.
In both labs, there had been large signs in English and in the local language warning that no Huawei employee was allowed in the lab without being escorted by an employee of the service provider.
The large sign also warned that all Huawei employees were prohibited from attaching any type of external storage device (think USB) to any equipment in the lab or Huawei would face penalty.
I didn't ask about the origins of the signs, the signs said all I needed to know.
148
@MattNg
You worked in an NSA site?
8
A billionaire who is credibly accused of breaking international law "has become a powerful symbol of Chinese people once again being subjugated.”
Really?
And talking about "subjugation", what about the Uighurs and the Tibetans?
Or the Canadians being held incommunicado in secret Chinese jails while the poor little billionaire Chinese heiress is chauffeured around Vancouver and neighboring locations in luxury SUV's?
Maybe the roles of the "subjugators" have totally reversed over this past century?
250
@The Alamo Kid
you lost me at credibly-- says who? a political grab in a very fluid area of the law-- extradition based upon -- are you sitting down-- an old power point presentation that mentions Iran? LOL!
6
@Torontonian
If she is innocent, then she has no problem. Canada must honor it's extradition agreements and do so despite the treatment of it's citizens in China. It woulds be nice to have the full backing of the US but it is not a necessary condition to do the right thing. Welcome to Canada.
30
while hundreds of thousands of Chinese (mostly Muslim) citizens are detained, and some disappeared, the Chinese media frets about her unfair treatment?
20
All emotional and nationalistic screeching set aside, no one has yet explained to me how this woman can be guilty of breaking the law in the US when she was not in the US in order to break the law here. Somebody apparently did something within our borders that is illegal here. Who, when and where?
This apparently has to do with resale of some artifacts that ended up in Iran. Once those articles had left the US for any other destination, how can US law be applied to what resellers in other sovereign nations do or don't do? US law applies only here, does it not, not within other sovereign nations. What am I missing here?
4
She is accused of fraud. She - as the CEO of Skycom - while in the US, misrepresented the relationship of Skycom with Huawei to US based banks, for the purposes of securing loans for Iranian trade.
This was in 2011-13. HSBC NY had suspicions, and flagged them internally in 2014. They turned over documents relating to this concern to FBI & DoJ in 2015, which has been conducting an investigation since.
17
Trump is sometimes right but *always* for the wrong reason. Huawei is a massive theft operation of stolen Us and European technology larded up with Chinese spyware. The Chinese see stealing US trade secrets/IP and evading fair play rules in the WTO as a national birthright. Hopefully she gets thrown in a dungeon in Kansas for a couple of decades so that she can read a few more novels on her own corrupt home country.
12
Why shouldn’t she live well, she hasn’t committed any Canadian crime.
5
Perhaps Canada should start treating Ms. Meng the same was that China treats Canadians it 'charges with crimes', and hold her incommunicado in a government hosting facility. To highlight that Canada provides truly justice, whereas China does not.
29
For a couple of months I've owned one of their Mate phones. Bought on Amazon for $237-US. It is lightening fast and as an American, I have no more faith in the USGOV regarding intrusions on my privacy than that of this Chinese company.
8
Suppose China were to put sanctions on, let's say, Ukraine and ban all trade with that country. Suppose then that Apple's CFO were detained in Russia awaiting extradition to China for prosecution, for the crimes of selling Iphones in Kiev and misleading Chinese banks.
We don't need much imagination to figure out how the United States would react, on all levels.
8
@Lars Schaff, your imaginary tale is interesting.
Yet, Huawei has facilitated Chinese espionage and is controlled by the Chinese military.
Meanwhile it was built with stolen IP.
14
@Joe Yoh
The Huawei CFO is not accused of the things you mention, which anyway have to be considered rumors awaiting evidence.
BTW, Iphones are surpassed technologically in many respects by Huawei cellphones, so it's time to steal back (most likely going on).
The question remains: can you imagine the US reaction on every level if China tried to prosecute the CFO of Apple?
2
Ms. Meng is a Chinese citizen and not Canadian, although in the past she had been a "permanent resident" of Canada. If Canadian citizens in China were arrested for spying as retaliation for Ms. Weng's arrest and they are being held in difficult circumstances without bail or recourse to legal counsel, then the Canadians are fools for allowing her luxurious "detention".
If reciprocity guides the Chinese, then it should also guide the Canadians.
14
Too bad there’s never been this much interest or debate when the USA asked for extradition of AIM activists. Canada had no choice then and has no choice now.
6
Ms. Meng is a Chinese citizen and does her business in a Chinese company, so why is Canada detaining her for violating a US law? And the law in question (doing business with Iran) is one that the US itself often doesn't respect (for starters, look up Caspar Weinberger, Elliott Abrams, Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, Clair George, and Robert McFarlane). The European Union has roundly rejected US attempts to block trade with Iran, and is even setting up new trade channels to facilitate EU-Iran business. Does this mean that any random European businessperson with ties to a EU company trading with Iran via the official EU conduit will also be subject to arrest if they travel through Canada? When is Canada going to stand up for itself, and tell the US that it has no right to selectively enforce such ridiculous laws on the rest of the world?
12
@John
The problem here is not that the US can pick some random EU character for persecution (sorry, prosecution). They can.
The problem for Canada is that it has an extradition treaty and the US found a very major player as easy pickings going through the Vancouver airport. Very major player because the US is sadly behind on 5G technology and China is way ahead. The economic-communication stakes are huge.
Secondly, the US wants it clear that they broke the accord with Iran that the Obama administration.
Thirdly, Bolton & Pompeo recently invoked the world policeman - world bully mandate: the Monroe Doctrine which say the US can protect its interests anytime and anywhere it sees fit.
The charges against Ms Meng are part of the US administration's trade war with China. A lot of games will be played behind the scenes.
7
She committed bank fraud. That’s illegal in Canada and the US and Canada has an extradition treaty with the US.
22
@Sara
No, she didn't. She is accused of violating anti-Iran US sanctions though a third party, owned by Huawei, which in itself is not a crime, unless the company (and she personally) does that on US soil.
3
Mr. Trump has repeatedly twitted that Ms. Meng's arrest had been part of the trade war between the US and China. Canada should have known that had the amateurish foreign minister done her due diligent without sleeping on the job.
4
@Ted chyn Canada has an extradition treaty with the US which we have to honour. It is unfortunate that the Trump administration has decided to throw Canada under the bus and appears to be using Canada as a pawn in its trade war with China
9
@Margaret Gauthier.. my apologies for our “transactional” President and the difficulties he is causing our neighbors.
1
Most of my fellow Canadians that I talk to about this feel she should have been released immediately and that we are chumps for allowing ourselves to be used by the US for their political and economic gain.
We know that the standard response to "crimes" she is accused of is to simply pay a fine and spend some time in the penalty box, not go through this fiasco and charade pretending she has been arrested for any real reason.
We have been so abused by Trump, no kidding, even now he maintains 25% tariffs of Canadian steel because we're a national security threat (?) Americans pay more for products using steel, and US manufacturers are reportedly having trouble and would like Trump to lift the tariffs. Which he won't because he doesn't understand global trade, diplomacy, macroeconomics or much of anything you think you'd need to know to run a country and make sound economic decisions.
So why would we willingly suffer more pain with our other trading partner to support American interests at this time? Has the US done us any favours lately?
No! You trash our economy and think we're in some zero sum competition. Frankly, I don't know what you think any more.
But if Justin Trudeau gave Ms Meng a plane ticket tomorrow on a one-way trip to China that would be just fine with me.
I'd be happy to end this foolishness that we would never have gotten into if our dear neighbours to the south had elected a competent and capable president. Thanks for nothing.
26
@Econ John - Odd, most of my fellow Canadians familiar with the situation are asking why we don't hand her over to the Americans more quickly.
15
@Econ John I have concerns about the validity of the reasons behind the US request but the fact remains that Canada has an extradition treaty with the US and it is important that we honour it.
5
@Margaret Gauthier
And I have a concern that you don't have a concern (about that extradition treaty). It is not unconditional. We do not extradite anybody to jurisdictions that have the death penalty, regardless what heinous crimes they are accused of.
The United States HAS the death penalty.
3
It is phony to call China People's Republic and phonier to say it is a communist country. Detaining an executive on a transit smells sycophantic while not challenging the company fair and square. My heart is on the side of Canadian majority.
1
Barry stated: 'In Huawei, we have the Chinese government masquerading as a western corporation'. And I fear he is quite right. When I read the comments here, I sometimes think that we have a lot of naive people (amongst the trolls of course), who really have simply not thought this one through. There is a lot going on here, think it over before making 'local' references. Would you really, as North Americans, support a company like Huawei, and a government who haven't any respect for human beings, or intellectual property? Really?
41
@Will
No, we respect a 'western corporation' like GM, who took the money lifeline from the Canadian government to stay afloat and gave guarantees in return not to shut its operations here. And of course they held up their end of the bargain, right?
4
The kidnap of Meng is a clear reminder of Pierucci's misery, a previous senior executive of Alstom, by FBI in 2014 based on a strange charge of bribery in Indonesia (yeah, here we go again). France sit idle and did nothing, in the end, the very business of Alstom that GE was in fierce competition (oh yeah), died. Just so everyone knows the nature of the US mafia-style state machinery, Pierucci shared a cell with murders and rapists and became a hostage so that Alstom was forced to pay one ransom after another and eventually went bankrupt.
2
There should be a clear explanation of why Huawei’s being in breach of sanctions is both legally and morally wrong, and that the charges are that she sanctioned it. It should then be a matter of fact whether there is any wrong doing, and hence the application of the rule of law.
2
She’s not in breach of sanctions. She’s been charged with bank fraud.
3
I've been saying it for long time. The Chinese government accuses democratic countries for all the evil but then will use all of the democratic institutions to protect its citizens if they fall into troubles in those countries. Probably what i say is undemocratic but maybe it's time to treat the Chinese the same way they treat our citizens. That includes legal system. The fact that Meng is on bail ant those two Canadians are kept as hostages God only knows where without access to lawyers is outrageous.
42
Just today Ms. Meng has announced a lawsuit against Canada's Border Services Agency, our RCMP and our Justice Dept.
It turns out Canada's law enforcement may be as incompetent as Trump sometimes stupidly says his is.
According to our Canadian press, Ms. Meng, on arrival at Vancouver airport on December 1st last year, was held for 3 hours incommunicado after turning in her passports (she has 7 apparently) her electronics, her passwords and anything else suspicious.
According to her suit, she was provided with no translator, no lawyer, no food or water, and was not read her rights.
She will argue her case under our Charter of Rights and Freedoms and will probably win many of our lawyers opine.
If she ever does get extradited, it will be at least 6 years down the road, and by that time Huawei will be running all of China's Asian Belt and Road systems and most of the world's 5G networks.
Canada will have a new government, and maybe the US will too.
Mr. Xi, however, will probably still be sitting pretty in, or around, the Forbidden City.
Ms. Meng will have finished the renovations on her more expensive home (the 15 million dollar [Can.] one), and may have completed her Phd in International Finance at the University of BC.
Climate change will probably be an even greater problem than it is today.
26
She is a pawn in a geopolitical battle far above her pay grade. Possibly a guilty pawn but a pawn nonetheless.
The fact is that Trump is finally trying to do something about the menace that is China and we all owe him for changing the narrative that allowed us all to sleep walk into possible disaster.
China will not be a benevolent master should they ever succeed in displacing the US on the world stage as they are plainly striving to do.
10
The Walton family of Walmart own many homes in Hong Kong and Shanghai. If they were ever arrested (unlikely since the current two generations and future Walton generations do not actually work thanks to the death of the 'death tax'), I suspect that their digs could fit Meng's house in the foyer.
7
@john After China started taking hostages I would expect that prominent and even not so prominent American will think twice before visiting.
2
Ms. Meng’s arrest had tapped into deep-seated historical memories of Canada’s fight against Communism. In Huawei, we have the Chinese government masquerading as a western corporation. We know this because Ms. Mengs detention (required by Canada's long standing extradition agreement with our American neighbours) in Vancouver has the Chinese government arresting Canadians in retaliation. What company based in any democratic country would request that foreign citizens be arrested for reasons unrelated to the stated issues? And what democratic country would execute such an action? How does a death penalty sentence sound as political leverage?
31
As a Vancouver resident Ms Meng's conditions of detention don't bother me at all. By all appearances legal due process has been implemented.
What does bother me is that according to the evidence I have read, is the economics of who gets the 5G prize in international commerce. The USA, sadly lacking in 5G entrepreneurship, got caught behind.
The US government created the case against Ms Meng on the grounds of violating the sanctions against Iran as part of their trade war with China. But note that is was the present administration that instated sanctions against Iran after the abrogated the treaty sign by Obama.
Same old story: geo-politics among the great powers, in this case a trap set by Bolton of the present administration.
13
I was born in Vancouver, but can no longer afford to live there. The city has been bought and paid for by Chinese and Ms. Meng is just one example. Many Chinese come to Vancouver, land in Richmond and head to casinos to launder their money. Apartments and houses stand vacant as the Chinese don't live there and therefore do not support the neighborhood businesses. I was in Hong Kong last year and virtually every person in the passport line coming from mainland China had a Canadian passport, in fact during my time in Hong Kong, everyone I met had a Canadian passport, but none had been born there, and none lived there. In mainland China I was followed, I kept running into the same people in Beijing, the phone in the hotel would ring for me as I stepped into the lobby. Only one of my friends (out of 20) lives in Vancouver, today, because real estate is insane. Not one of the houses or buildings I have ever lived in still stands. Vancouver is rightly called Hongcouver. The city has lost its a soul. Meanwhile, the homeless problem is overwhelming, but Vancouver just keeps selling the properties to build high end condos, to be or not to be occupied. I can't go home to my hometown, and one trip to Hong Kong, let's me know what's in store ahead. The best thing that happened to me while I was there last, was a young Chinese man, tried to steal my parking spot as I waited for the driver to exit, he pulled in so quickly that he smashed his brand new Tesla into the wall.
67
@thewriterstuff
Unfortunately it seems that people are angry because others are rich. If illegal acts have been performed those responsible should be prosecuted. If not then it proves that the rule of law does not exist and needs to be fixed.
Unending diatribes are not the answer to any problem !
7
@bananur raksas The same story is happening in Toronto. The rich play games as usual, while the citizens bear the consequences. We are rightly frustrated.
8
@thewriterstuff The charges against Ms. Meng have nothing to do with Vancouver's cost of living, high housing prices or money laundering. It sounds like you're blaming her wealth and ethnicity for your woes.
7
The article's headline seems so naive, so disconnected from human reality,
Of course she's treated differently from other detainees. She and her family are 0.1% world-class wealthy.
Pecunia vincit... omnia. Including law.
16
Her family is in the .000001% wealthy
7
Vancouver is now down to three industries -- tourism, real estate and money laundering. Sad.
42
Her wealth has nothing to do with this bogus case against her. It is a standard boiler plate initimidation routine by the US trying to enforce its laws outside its borders. So what if Huawei wants to deal with Iran?
Canada’s role in this farce is despicable. You cannot claim, that your hands are tied by an extradition treaty, no questions asked. We do not extradite anyone to jurisdictions that have the death penalty and the United States is one of those.
11
@waldo
Well, this is wrong. Huawei can deal with Iran, sure, but not at the same time that it deals with US banks. The accusation is that it misled US banks, which certainly are within the purview of American law.
41
@waldo
Notwithstanding that a treaty that isn't binding to its signatories cannot even be considered a "treaty"... you're dead wrong about Canada not extraditing to jurisdictions that have capitol punishment... google "Charles Ng".
6
@Perspective, I believe it was
British bank, HSBC. This bank
was simply fined for dealing with Iran, no executive being arrested. However, a person
was deputed to monitor its
transactions to prevent dealing with Iran. This person scrutinizing the documents
came across a transaction
of a Hong Kong company(either a subsidiary or affiliate of Huawei) and reported to US authorities. Ms Meng somehow was trapped.
It mus tbe looked in the broader context of US campaign to prevent Huawei
doing business in many European countries as well
as USA. This case will give
Huawei bad name as the violator of law and discourage the existing and potential customers.
1
Like the Evil Empire, the USA claims extraterritoriality over sovereign states--in this case, China and Iran.
Why should a Chinese entity be liable to a US sanction?
Perhaps it's time to put sanctions on the US--for gross violations of international law.
And the clock is running out on US financial dominance: de-dollarization of international finance will negate the arrogance of Washington. And it is well underway.
11
@George Washington
Fair enough, but the PLA's Huawei seems not to have received the memo, and it dealt with US banks.
12
@Perspective
HSBC and Charter banks are British banks.
1
@Elizabeth- who have correspondent relationships us banks through which they transact USD trades, hence the involvement of the US Gov and their sanctions of Iran.
4
Trump needed more leverage, so we had the situation with ZTE and now with Hwawei. Many people do not realize that the US's argument against Hwawei is that Hwawei did not really sell the company that actually violated the Iran sanctions. Look at it this way, if you sold your house, the new owners got busted for selling drugs, and you ended up getting arrested because the mobster controlled DA says you didn't really sell the house. This is just Trump doing a shakedown to get a better trade deal, and Canada helped. Were the two Canadians doing something illegal? Probably, and most likely previously with Chinese silent consent. Previously, Canada was talking about a free trade deal with China, and China was trying to keep things friendly. Of course, Trump cannot have Canada being too friendly with China, because he would lose leverage. So, he hit Huawei and Canada/China relations, Canadian/Chinese relations, international perspective of Canada as a safe haven for the rich, all in one go. China feels betrayed and so China is doing their own shakedown toward Canada. As for the side effect, it is interesting how an envious class conflict is turning into an acceptable race conflict. That is the art of the deal, reaching the objective, no matter what, mobster style with the power of the US government.
6
@Schwanish
The view from Beijing Centre.
12
So back in 2017, the United States issued a warrant for Meng's arrest based on Huawei's use of shell companies to illegally trade with Iran. Since then, she'd been avoiding travel to North America.
So it was incredibly odd that, on the very day that Donald Trump and Xi Jiping decide to meet in Argentina, Ms. Meng decides to layover in Vancouver, crossing to Mexico. Because the United States has some really strict rules about not allowing people with federal warrants into US airspace, and we're one of the few countries who will execute those warrants.
Since then it has been the strangest nightmare for Canada. We've had two former diplomats arrested for Chinese security reasons (in fact, one was travelling on his diplomatic passport and is still technically employed by the government). We've had increasingly divisive political scandals come out of nowhere. We've had university presidents harassed for being from Tibet.
At the same time, the United States has given us practically no backup. Donald Trump undermined the entire process immediately, and since then the most we've gotten was a speech from Pompeo. There isn't even a US Ambassador to Canada right now.
Why are we caught between the US and China? Maybe for boxing above our weight. For our reputation as a safe haven. For TPP and CETA. For our PM, who has really strong international connections. I have no idea.
Spring is nearly here. Things are looking nicer every day.
32
@C
Kelly Craft did in fact denounce the hostage-taking as "unlawful".
3
Canadians should be proud that in their country, in contrast to China, people not yet convicted are not prematurely punished. I doubt they’d want the Chinese model.
45
@Ilya Shlyakhter The goal of the US is to punish Huawei, which it sees as a threat, with or without conviction. And Canada has helped the US achieve that, by holding one of Huawei's top executives in custody, probably for years to come while the legal proceedings slowly continue. Yes, this is all technically lawful, but in reality it has no difference from hostage taking.
7
Oddly, they came to Canada as a hedge against the corrupt, arbitrary Chinese model (where they made their millions) because Canada has the rule of law, a very low corruption index, etc. And now they express their dismay with Canada's rule of law.
O, send us your migrants who yearn to be free.
20
Ms Meng should have done her homework prior to booking her flight via Canada. As a passenger in transit, she was vulnerable to detention and extradition at the request of the US.
Now, with her feet in the proverbial fire, her supporters including Mr Jiang are implying that her detention is symbolic of past subjugation of Chinese nationals between 1885 and 1923.
Perhaps Ms Meng and her Chinese neighbours in Vancouver should have taken this into consideration before they bought their multi-million dollar mansions to avoid subjugation in their motherland.
111
Judging from the bold retaliation taken by Mr Xi instead of civilized dialogue and offering evidence to acquit Ms Meng, one must conclude she is gulity and Xi fears exposure of the worst about Huawei.
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@Jim
Xi didn’t have to offer evidence to acquit Ms Meng; it is the US that has to prove that she is guilty of anything.
10
Canada, just like the U.S. long ago gave away the farm. We willingly bought into the promise of saving a few bucks on our t shirts and cell phones as a fair trade off for throwing millions of Americans out of good paying jobs and many onto the street as they could no longer afford a roof over their head. It was a bargain with the devil as we are now discovering, I hope Ralph Lauren enjoys his billion dollar car collection and The Fishers( The Gap)their billion dollar art collection, apparently the trade off was worth it to them. My home town of San Francisco was once comprised of many wonderful neighborhoods Irish, German, Russian, Jewish, Japanese and very large Italian and Chinese communities, now if it’s not tech money you can bet it’s Chinese. Vancouvers problems started in the eighties as Chinese developers were welcomed with open arms, those making money on the changes, primarily in the real estate business, really sold out the rest of us, aside from the best Chinese food outside of China I see only a downside to this takeover of our best cities by the Chinese who fly in and out using empty condos as a ticket to a green card, to get their kids in the best schools and as a piggy bank for excess cash, thanks to all those Chinese products we now buy from them. The Chinese in ten years won’t even need the jerks heading the companies that sold us out, they will own the companies as well, they took over the world without firing a shot.
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@Ted Maybe it's their own version of manifest destiny. They have always wanted to keep away from the west; it was the westerners that forced them to open up to the world.
6
@Ted
Thank you for a truthful summary. Sad but spot on....
9
@Ted
If China takes over the world without firing a shot, isn't it much more preferable than using the nuclear bomb? Yes, I agree that China's money is everywhere. They became a major manufacturing society at low cost to American business in less than half a century without "firing a shot"! So, the responsibility of this big shift of wealth should also be on America, and Canada; for as long as consumers goods from low tech as TV's, to high tech as Apple computers are readily affordable, we love this economic exchange. California governor just cancelled some of the express train building projects for its high cost. Perhaps, China is better able to build this express train at lower cost just they way they had done it in many other countries. This perspective of blaming Chinese is beginning to smell like the past when Chinese laborers helped to build the trans continental railroad in record time, and later only to be treated poorly by America in passing the Chinese Exclusion Act when for decades many Chinese workers were forced to return to China, leaving a lucky few, mostly men without families in Chinatown all over the U.S,
5
The sooner this individual is removed from Canada the better.
Canadians are loathe to harbour aliens who carry out their shady business practices under the strong-armed protection of dictatorial, thuggish regimes willing to engage in the de facto taking of hostages to enforce their will.
The crowd running these tyrannies need to wise up to the fact that Canada is a nation governed by rule of law.
We don't negotiate with outlaws who take hostages.
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@Skeptical Cynic
As a Canadian, I resent that our country has increasingly shown itself to be an American lackey as in the Meng case -- as soon as the idiot Trump suggested that Meng could be used as a pawn in his trade war with China, the Canadian Gov't. should have indicated the US did not initiate these proceedings with 'clean hands' and to have released Meng.
Another member of the Chinese Communist Party-connected elite gets special treatment that no ordinary Chinese or Canadian citizen would ever receive. And, even if she gets sent to the U.S., watch Trump work out a "deal" that makes the charges go away in return for extra soybean exports or some other nonsense.
The system is rigged.
67
This article is a bit skewed.
Overwhelmingly, the Chinese immigrants in Vancouver have escaped China. They are disproportionately affluent, so they know how China works. But they also chafe under Xi's rule, the lack of both freedom and the rule of law. Most mistrust Meng and her 6 passports, and are not happy about the scrutiny that is being focused on them as a result of her actions.
They are also very calibrated in terms of what freedom and justice mean. They clearly recognize the difference between China and Canada.
That's why they're here!
Don't paint them as a group concerned about the unfairness of Canada. They know what real unfairness looks like. And Canada does not qualify.
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Adding on, there is a difference to be made between Chinese immigrant, those who are on work/student visas, and the ultra rich Chinese who have preferred to transfer their finance out of the mainland to the form of high real estates across the West.
In certain countries such as New Zealand,they have banned Chinese nationals purchase of real estate. Could Meng have afforded the luxury of ankle monitoring had she not owned multiple real estates across Vancouver? Unlikely. Is her high profile a contributing factor to her freedom of movement? Uncertain.
What is certain is that Chinese nationals have for decades engaged in capital flight, given an inherent uncertainty over future domestic political patterns and their effects on their financial holdings.
The gulf of difference in law has also been highlighted by the vast difference between Canadian and Chinese pre-trial sentencing procedures. Whereas Meng was given the option of digital surveillance, the detained Canadians have been jailed. Although one must note the difference in charges. One is accused of violating sanctions, another is of spying.
5
@Anymore, Most of the Chinese came to Canada from Hong Kong when it was handed over
to China by Britian. They were
wealthy and feared confiscation of their wealth and authoritarian rule by the communists. Later other Chinese from mainland who made big money mostly by corrupt means also parked their money in Canada.
10
There is no comparison between the blatant and legislated racism and discrimination Chinese people faced in history vs. Ms. Meng, the daughter of a wealthy businessman who is living a richer life under "house arrest" than most Canadian or Chinese citizens will ever experience in their everyday lives.
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@K
It sounds like she's a wealthy person, period - regardless of nationality.
1
Doesn't appear that the Chinese leadership is handling this very well. Huawei, as a company, claims no affiliation with the mainland government. Yet, the government is the one clearly retaliating on Huawei's behalf making Huawei's non-government-affiliation statement even less credible.
If Ms. Meng ends up being extradited is China then going to start the tit-for-tat game here in the US too?
31
@Robert
Lets hope so! Canadians get stuck "enforcing" an extradition that we could care less about. It is clearly a political move helping US corporations (ie 5G, superior technology) and a convenient lever in the trade negotiations. Geez it not bad enough being a neighbour to the US these days (obviously why) NOW we get this!
26
@Torontonian: my comment was really about how China reacted to what they themselves claimed to be a *non-governmental* matter. What China has done by retaliating so severely (in arresting and jailing Canadian citizens) only proves that the Chinese government and Huawei are one entity.
So, if Canadians wish to tolerate the obvious and troublesome direct interference from China then so be it. The Canadians I know wouldn’t do so but you appear to have a different opinion. You might stop to realize that such appeasement only emboldens China to arrest more Canadians.
11
@Robert I think he's more referring to how Canada's government, after seeking to earn favour with Trump, continues to have the rug pulled out from under its feet. Our government has been on a crusade to remove tariffs and the US offers no cooperation despite us being your biggest trade partner and closest military ally. The tariffs were ironically imposed to hit China, but included loopholes that give most Chinese imports a back door, whereas Canada, which is by far the biggest and fairest US trade partner, doesn't have the luxury of loopholes, and was hit directly, causing thousands and thousands of jobs... these tariffs, the constant flow of refugees coming from the US, and this Meng case are three more reasons our government will likely topple this year, so a lot of Canadians might see helping the US as futile and against our interest.
14
None of the banks's executives have been detained or extradited in violating Iran sanction, it's US sanction, not UN. many European banks were slapped with fines and moved on.
7
Hmm, crime does pay
26
@Ed Latimer
Look out your window-- you will see exactly what you posted
2
Meng is the face of Communist-Chinese privilege. Anyone who uses her to play the race is not an ally of assimilated Chinese-Canadian immigrants (the ones who respect western values), and are completely clueless or ignorant of economic disparity and thinks they can freely walk into another country with wads of cash and conduct business with impunity. Millonaires with ill-gotten gains and their Lamborghinis, kick them all out, they contribute nothing to the Chinese Canadian community who chooses and lives in the west and is not two-faced.
119
@M. Paire
Like NYC, we in Toronto and Vancouver allow all kinds of millionaires from all around the world to launder their money. The BC govt (where Vancouver is located), has started to address this decades old practice.
If you really care about money laundering ie " walk into another country with wads of cash and conduct business with impunity" then I suggest you check out their first report (gambling and money laundering) and wait later this month for the real estate and money laundering report.
Maybe NYC can pick up a few pointers. : )
12
Canada is a diverse, multicultural country and we don’t use the word “assimilation” here. The very idea of assimilation/good immigrant stereotype betrays your white supremacist views
3
@George Fun fact, you can assimilate and still retain your diverse cultural heritage. It means following local laws, it has nothing to do with diversity or white supremacy; if Meng was German or Irish, she would still be arrested. It speaks to desperation to use the race card, a tired CCP 50-cent troll tactic. Chinese Canadians who fled communist China won't fall for it.
4
From the wealthy Chinese neighbor, walking her dog in complete freedom, unhindered by what she can say in Canada:
“We find it hard to accept what Canada is doing,” she said. “It doesn’t seem to be able to distinguish between good and evil and we hope that Ms. Meng will come out of this safely.”
Contrast this with a Canadian in China doing the exact same thing. They would immediately be pounced upon by plain clothes police if they ever uttered such a thing.
Oh, the irony....
247
@Mark
You're right. But on the same token governments like Canada/U.S. have welcomed the influx of Chinese wealth and investment. They know full well how the ruling party there operates.
21
@Mark
My niece lives in Shanghai, thats not a problem actually. This is 2019 right?
8
@Mark The European colonials took Native American lands by force, drove the natives to near extinction, and now denounce the new Chinese immigrants who have to buy their way in as intruders. And they claim Ms. Meng was arrested according to the law, the same way they used to "lawfully" enslave the Africans and exclude the Asians.
Oh, the irony....
13
“the house in the Dunbar neighborhood, on the west side of the city, had particularly touched a nerve. The area was emblematic of many others in the city that had once been the domain of the aspirational middle class but had become flooded with foreign capital.”
As a Canadian living in US, I find it quite ironic that my fellow Canadians are outraged by a few wealthy, legal immigrants that boost property prices.
And then act holier than thou against Trump.
Try 20 MILLION low- skill illegals.
27
You could *try* 20M low skill illegals, but it’s complete and utter nonsense. A false statistic. And I am a Canadian living in the US legally (are you?). The US has its fair share of super-wealthy hedgers, but the US has an appallingly awful immigration system which is at least eighty per cent of the reason for its illegal immigrant issues. A better, fairer, more sensible system like Canada’s (and others) would help to no end. So would improved public education, some public health, a tax system that isn’t rigged for the super-wealthy, and some sense that the government isn’t the enemy but an entity comprised of - surprise surprise - fellow citizens...ultimately comprised of all of them. So yes, Canadians have every right to bemoan a hedger using influence to skirt and manipulate the justice system. Is it only a problem when born citizens do it?!
24
@Ray Fox
Perhaps it has something to do with the overt and crude racism exhibited by Donald Trump (and so many of his admirers), and the barrage of outright lies he repeatedly spews on this subject.
One needs a cool head and respect for real facts in order to devise workable policies for dealing with these millions of illegal immigrants. Even Congressional Republicans have been unwilling to fund this symbolic "wall" being falsely touted as the ultimate solution by a fact-free executive branch.
7
@Ray Fox
Sigh-- you have no clue and clearly no economic understanding of the destructive aspects of how too much money has literally destroyed the North shore of Vancouver. Read any Canadian (or Australian or British) paper. But hold on-- you live in the US-- so....
13
What galls a lot of Canadians about this whole process is that we are being played for patsies by the good 'ol US of A. It has nothing to do with rule of law - we are caught (again) between two super powers as they jockey for world economic dominance. As for one being a "liberal" democracy and the other a totalitarian state, I don't think much of the developing world could tell you the difference between the two, having experienced the former first hand over many decades. Monroe Doctrine anybody?? The best thing that could happen from this scenario is that the extradition be disallowed, especially given the Trumpster's open comments on a political fix, and Meng be sent packing home. Bring on global climate change - it can't be any worse than the mess the world is in now. And maybe it will focus our attention on something that really matters.
36
@Guada
Sure, there's absolutely no difference between the U.S. and China. If you think that's the case, try this.
Go to DC. Stand in front of the White House. Hold up a sign that says "Down With Donald Trump." See how it goes. Most likely worst case scenario, someone in a red hat starts screaming at you.
Now go to Beijing. Stand in front of Xi Jinping's official residence. Hold up a sign that says "Down With Xi Jinping." Most likely best case scenario, you get arrested and deported. More likely worst case scenario, another Canadian is arrested and accused of spying.
That should educate you real fast about the difference between a liberal democracy and a totalitarian state. I don't like the direction the U.S. has taken the past four years, but at least I can do something about it other than move to another country.
84
@Guada I believe the vast majority of Canadians, and the developing world, would disagree with you about there being little difference between the US and China. As for your comment about bringing on climate change... pure silliness.
12
If you really think there’s no difference between the US and China, why not immigrate to China and do some good ol’ peaceful protesting against the Communist Party? Let me know how that prison/torture/brainwashing goes. Or maybe you could just ask the Uighrs in Xinjiang?
12
Yes, Ms. Meng is hardly a sympathetic character. And it is more than galling to see hoer out on the town while two of our citizens rot in jail.
But the core of this issue is this: either Canada follows our extradition treaty with America (and vice-versa) or we choose to not follow it and it becomes meaningless.
29
@Norman Dupuis
Have you ever read the treaty? BTW, it has already been rendered meaningless before this-- do some reading. This is a purely political act. Surprised that a Calgarian supports our Liberal Federal Govt!
1
Canada should have stayed out of this mess. Let the US and China fight. Why should a peace-loving country get involved in the dirty mess of two superpowers?
1
She should have been extradited much more rapidly, and been kept in jail until that process was concluded. She very clearly has been treated differently due to wealth, and worse yet she has fanned the flames of racial division in Canada and even more extreme nationalism in PRC. Having grown up in Canada I know that Meng is fairly normal for her type of semi-immigrant. She shows the problems with Canada’s immigration system. It is fair and accessible compared to the US model, but places too little emphasis on what immigrants do once they have their residency rights. Hedging is the correct term. If they are going to do it, they ought be charged far more for the privilege and they ought to be prepared for the consequences when justifiably accused of major international crimes.
38
@Ralph
sigh-- you are dealing with another country-- things don't work the same as in your country. We have a different legal system then yours. Good to know right?
3
I think it may be hard for mainland Chinese to think outside of the persecution complex they so commonly have. Unlike China, where rules are easily bent to the government's will and anyone can be randomly arrested, there are strict processes in place in Canada. While this may or may not have been political, China arresting Canadians in retaliation is definitely a very political response.
47
"Many Canadians see the case of Ms. Meng, who can travel relatively freely with a GPS tracker, as an example of foreign money’s influence in Vancouver."
Not really. Most Canadians I know see the case of Ms. Meng as another example of Trump bullying our government and we all resent that deeply.
The US request for arresting Ms. Meng has obviously no merits, as she has not violated any Canadian laws and economic sanctions on Iran were initiated by the US and not authorized by the UN. Never-the-less, Canada is drawn into this ill-conceived, politically motivated, maneuver by the US and may end up suffering economically because of it.
34
@Eddie B.
To be clear, your most-Canadians-comment may not be that well informed.
Her indictment is from the Brooklyn US Attorney General's office, not from Trump. It stems from sanctions violations that occurred before Obama's Iran agreement, about 3 years before Trump became president and 5-6 years into Obama's presidency. The sanctions were agreed upon by all of the western European governments, Canada, The US, Russia and China. She went to great lengths to cover her tracks. And she sold US equipment to Iran, acting illegally as an intermediary.
The case has been painstakingly prepared by the Brooklyn AG based on audit information discovered at HSBC. The Feds don't indite on cases like this unless they're rock solid. SO don't cheapen it with a poorly informed political perspective.
56
@Eddie B.
Exactly!!! We already have suffered economically for it. Thanks US!!
4
@Dred yah Dred is right... you can't blame Trump for this. That said, we don't have to agree with sanctions against Iran. Doesn't it seem weird, that Saudi and Israel are way more blantanlty aggressive to everyone in the region, and get unwavering support? Yet no sanctions...
2
asking the Canadians to detain Ms. Meng was a bad idea to start with. The Iranian sanction is a hoax and other big companies that broke the sanction haven't seen their executives detained yet. What's the point to criticize her lavish life-style while in bail? What should the Canadians do with her?
15
I wholeheartedly agree with sentiments below from Vancouver.
And talking about discrimination against the Chinese from years past - it seems it is now the Canadians who are being discriminated with all these Yuans flying in from China.
I simply don't understand how a western country - in today's age - should allow these flying visitors who make lives of the locals so difficult and almost impossible.
The Aussies and the Kiwis are finding the same issues with yuan loaded Chinese and have taken steps to curb the abuses. And it's going to come to America - though we are admittedly much richer than just about any place. We ourselves inflate property prices without any foreign help.
My gut feeling is she will be extradited. She will be convicted in our courts. And after some huge fine and a token one month jail - will be deported to China - unless she stops first in Vancouver.
63
@Neil
Most if not all extradition convictions are fine only. Except when the US has asked us to extradite people who are involved with dope-- then its jail time. Fast forward 10 years and guess what , now that govts need money guess that wont be automatic anymore -- right?
2
@Neil: You need to spend a little time inSan Francisco and Portland Neil, Chinese money and immigration has had a draconian effect on the native populace, forcing hundreds of thousands in the Bay Area alone to flee the place they were born because they could no longer afford to live there. The exact figure was around 300,000 net migration I believe over the last few years, this is a readily available government statistic not the rant of a racist.
22
Thank you for this balanced article. It's more like "reporting" than many others we see lately. But it's quite a stretch to compare this woman and her situation to how the Chinese were treated in the beginning of the last century. I think it's insulting to them. It seems though that if there is any conceivable way to connect a story to racism or inequity of some kind, it is done. It ends the story though, and it gets hits.
23