Dear Sir,
Surely, we have reached a level of absurdity of which there is no return.
7
As a woman with a PhD, I hate being identified by my gender when third parties that I don’t know reach out to me. I would strongly prefer getting a letter that said “to the editor” or “dear Professor”, which is what we do in my field of academia. It’s non-binary, it does not require making assumptions, and it’s honest. “I’m writing to you because of your role and your expertise.” That is the greatest honor of all, far greater than the Victorian-feeling ‘ma’am.’ Am I the only millennial who feels completely weirded out by being called ma’am? It’s Morgan, or it’s “Professor”.
7
Another sign of the "end times"?
4
Why not try the old Scottish phrase, "Dear Sir or Madman"?
8
A wonderful report from Ms Ellen.
Ms. - I thank you - respectfully yours.
2
To whom it may concern!
I always wonder who is it.
While the lady had a point with the changing times, the choice of a paper where the only editor is, indeed, a "sir" did not help her cause.
9
Why not try "folk" instead, as in Chaucer's "Thanne longen folk to goon. . ."?.
7
What if the editor is also a Knight of the Realm? Wouldst he then be properly addressed as "Sir Sir"? What if Sirhan Sirhan had been an editor (or a Knight)?
4
Surely it depends on whether the editor is a man or a woman however unlikely that may still be
2
When I attended school, I had a classmate whose last name was "Sir." That was always good for a bit of confusion: Dear Mr. Sir...
2
It's a dreary day indeed when the formality or traditional use of a salutation is more important than the respectful tone it's meant to confer.
Respect and tone - those most changeable bugbears of the language enforcers - are indeed highly subjective. Nevertheless, to be inclusive, one should probably use a gender-neutral and inclusive salutation or title.
The gender (if known) of the editor (likely not known), is in any case irrelevant and as such should be excluded.
3
I love it. I love the old fashion archaicness of the whole business. The “ gender bias,” such as it is,leaves me unmoved. I will take “Sir” over the tsunami of rudeness that has crashed onto our shores,especially since we are now ruled by that nit wit in the White House. I am sick of being called my first name by strangers and people half my age .Ma’am and Sir used to be proforma.
31
@Dixie
Amen.
5
All I can think of is the Letters Section in the old National Lampoon. To my mind, "Sir:" will only ever be a send up for some insane premise...
4
The idea that making language gender neutral will somehow alter the culture is amusing to me as a Turkish speaker. Turkish is almost completely gender neutral and there is one pronoun that covers he, she and it. The culture, not so much. Maybe this stuff just isn't that important?
17
Even languages without genders need a way to address both men and women.
As a linguist, I am always amused, so to speak, by our linguistic and social conventions. So, before we get into the discussion of whether to use "Sir" or "Madam" in our letter writing, we need to address the question of why we use "Dear". In most professional communications, the idea that the person being addressed is in any way "dear" to us is simply ludicrous. A word or phrase more along the lines of "attention" would be much more appropriate to the actual relationship -- and, indeed, is used frequently in business communications. Also, since the name of the editor is known to the readers, one could just use the person's name. In summary, a more logical form of address would be "Attention, Mr. Jones" or "To the attention of Ms. James".
25
When I don't know the name of a specific individual to address, I always begin letters: "Dear Sir or Madam:".
That's what I was taught in school, and it covers all possibilities (except that the addressee might be a computer).
27
@Jonathan Katz
. . . or someone in-between a sir and a madam.
3
Last year I did some business with the Polish Government and each e mail arrived “Dear Sirs” irrespective of who was sending it. I was taught at school (in England) to address each letter “Dear Sir or Madam” if one did not know the recipient.
12
Dear Sir (or Madam),
why not use the phrase
"Dear Sir or Madam"?
Apart from this, every writer of a reader's letter should address the editor of a newspaper as it seems appropriate to him or her.
Yours sincerely,
a reader
14
@Carsten Neumann I thought the Beaqtles covered this some years ago:
Dear Sir or Madam, will you read my book?
It took me years to write, will you take a look?
("Paperback Writer")
1
Language matters. It colors thought. Fairness matters, perhaps even more.
How about we just change to 'Dear Madam' as the default for the next 500 years - just to even things out? The affirmative action of language, effectively.
Then, hopefully, by the Year 2519, things will have worked themselves out.
43
@Julius David: well said. Thank you.
"For insight into the conservatism of Middle England..."
How more condescending can one get?
BTW, maybe the readership of the Henley Standard is Middle, but Henley-on-Thames is more upscale than Middle.
7
@abo I took this as geographic, not socioeconomic
12
@c.hampson I did, too. Like Wisconsin is thought to be Midwestern.
3
@c.hampson @Katrin Geographically, Henley is not Middle England either. It's almost due west of London, and southeast of Oxford.
2
A tempest in a teapot
11
Dear Sir or Madam,
When the Irish Times appointed a lady as editor several years ago, correspondents naturally addressed their letters "Dear Madam". The solution to Ms Hatch's problem seems obvious; appoint her as the next editor.
Yours faithfully
28
Another possibility is to have it reflect the gender of the boss of the editorial board. If it is a woman, use Ma’am. Maintains the idea of respect while accounting that different genders have different titles of respect.
5
How about "To the editor:" as a salutation. The obvious problem with "Sir" is that it presumes that the editor must be a male. That is an antiquated notion.
As to the disclaimer "I am not a feminist, but..." I just don't understand that. Do you mean that you oppose equal rights for women, or that you think women should remain the object of insults, bullying, objectification and/or abuse from men, or that you think women should not be able to vote, own property, or hold a job or a position of power? Or what do you think feminism is about?
49
‘But the dispute has sparked further analysis of “Sir,” as it is still used for letters to the editor in The Daily Telegraph, The Times, The Spectator and Private Eye ...’
Herein lies a fine argument for the Oxford comma. Is The Spectator and Private Eye one periodical or two? If two, and they are, a comma after Spectator would resolve the question lest it fester.
And, incidentally, long live Britain and her delightful idiosyncrasies.
38
@Tomas:
You're right about the Oxford comma, and I generally use it myself. In this particular case, however, the problem would have been obviated by the correct use of italics for the titles of publications. I can't illustrate it here because the New York Times doesn't allow formatting words in a comment, but the "and" would not have been italicized, thus removing the ambiguity.
3
How would we live if English were not one of the few western languages that is non-gendered? I was brought up to belive that, for the most part, gender was a grammatical term. Sex, on the other hand, is a biological one. Many plants have individual sexes while electrical connections are gendered.
If you move to France you have a language with two genders; to Germany, three. How would sensitivities deal with that?
7
@Martin Cohen
In Germany, we start business letters (and the ones to editors) with the salutation "Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren" which means in translation "Very honoured ladies and gentlemen", so both genders are considered.
3
Notice how the lady who first called this tired patriarchal practice into question felt the need to preface her remarks with "I am by no means a feminist, but..."
This is where we are today, with liberals always on the defensive; apologizing for speaking the truth. Yes, ma'am, you are indeed a feminist, and that's OK. Be proud!
33
The problem here is not the use of "Sir" it is the knee jerk reaction of the weak to not offend that is most offensive. And then to react again when there are protests! Take stand SIR! If Ms Hatch doesnt like it, she doesnt have to use it. End of story. This type of overreaction and then backtrack to a muddling middle road will be the decline of common sense.
15
@Mahalo
Stay calm. I do not think using a nonsexist greeting will be the end of civilization as we know it.
8
@DW
LOL thanks for the humoUr :) !
3
@DW Dear Sir or Madam, Nor will using gender specific honorifics cause the end of civilization.
1
The use of gendered pronouns implies that gender conveys meaning in the relationship between two people, and also communicates one's assumptions about another.
In a professional context, gender should never matter, and it is jarring to be misidentified by gender.
I am perfectly happy to be referred to in an ungendered way in a professional context, and I would like to be able to convey that in my professional life, I am wholly uninterested in and unaffected by a person's gender.
We refer to doctors and judges with ungendered honorifics, but we all deserve the respect and privacy from those without interest in our gender to keep out of it.
6
"To the Editor" is simple and clear and I don't see how it could possibly be construed as disrespectful of anyone.
I see the value in letting each letter writer decide how to address the editor. Those who know the editor happens to be male can still write "Dear Sir" if they prefer.
But there is also a case for standardizing the salutation line, as many elements of a publication's format are standardized, for clarity to the reader as well as to lessen work for the staff. If the greeting is standardized, it needs to be nongendered. (There's always "Dear Sir or Madam," but when the editor's gender is known, that seems a little weird.)
So the nonsexist "To the Editor" is the best solution. It's not fancy, but it's plain spoken. You're writing to the editor; whether that person is male or female has nothing to do with anything.
If "To the Editor" somehow offends someone, I say that person just needs to get out more.
36
@DW "If "To the Editor" somehow offends someone, I say that person just needs to get out more."
Likewise, "If "Sir", when written to a male editor, somehow offends someone, I say that person just needs to get out more."
7
@abo
I've gotten out a little bit, and noticed that some editors are male and some editors are female. But you may have had a different experience.
13
Jolly good report. My dog is named "Sir Hoyt Handsomepants" and his best friend is a dachshund named "Lady Augret Weedflower". The gender distinction is very important to these canines. Sir Hoyt also goes by names such as Hoytentott, Hoytie, Hoyts LaRue, Hoity Toity to name a few. But he relies on the honorific "Sir" to claim his birthright privilege.
36
Dear Sir --
When I was in school, I had to call adults "Sir" or "Ma'am," or else I would be hit by the principal in front of the whole student body. It never did me any harm, apart from the crushing nightmares, depression and blurred vision that I have experienced over the decades.
Yours faithfully,
Capt Arthur Smithewick (Mrs)
33
@Tom
Your school years were rough. Much rougher than mine, and I had to call my teachers "comrade" for a good part of my school years.
I am all for keeping "Sir" and "Madam". Dropping them begins to remind me of my years of life when everyone was "comrade", including the president of the republic.
19
@reader - Better "Comrade" than "Xir".
8
@PeteH Heaven forfend we respect someone by calling them what they ask to be called. "Xir"is rare, and anyone brave enough to express this mode of address as their preference deserves every bit of deference to that request.
2