It is a good exercise to point out the positive. However, Russian TV underscored the negative mockingly and suggested that Putin will step in to negotiate more successfully with North Korea.
This means that this is being one of Trump's worst weeks yet and it is only Friday morning. In Trump's book, his trip to Hanoi was a failure. Then he had the Cohen factor which will have his finances and companies investigated and, C level executives chased by House. Even his intellect is being challenged related to school grades. On top of it, the Kushner top security clearance issue, one of the many weak links in the Administration.
The President desperately needs a distraction so the House will not start talking about impeachment. He already played the national emergency card. His next smokescreen might be Venezuela. Will Trump send Marines to protect Guaido return to his country and out Maduro? He is selective with the dictators he likes. Is Bolton prepared?
1
Wonder if we, as Americans, had to pay for the luncheon that never happened. The gross ineptness of Trump and his foreign policy team once again on display. Trump must think he gets frequent flyer miles taking international trips- clearly he mucks them up time and again and this time a serious example of lack of planning, thinking, and contradictions between he and his "team".
1
If I was Kim Jong-un there is no way on gods earth that I would bargain my country and my life for an agreement with Trump.
Trump's known lying an his habit of tearing up any and all painstakingly negotiated contracts on a whim is an absolute impediment.
This applies to any negotiation Trump attempts in the next two years with anyone.
Forget winning.
Of course the nuclear issue was the top priority. But for the NY Times not to have mentioned Trump's statement that he trusted that Kim did not know about Otto Warmbier's arrest and treatment. That an American trusts a despotic leader over the death of an American citizen - that is clearly going against the Constitution and putting foreign needs over that of Americans. Can you imagine a Democratic politician saying something like that with no reaction from the Republicans?
Forget the presidency. That statement alone should guarantee that Trump should either be executed in the most harhest way possible or jailed in maximum security for the rest of his life.
History would say,he didn’t try.
The President knew the perils of dealing with Comrade Kim.He is pretty well advised.
Still he tried.
No effort goes in Vain. The world is round.
Eventually,Comrade Kim will understand the perils of playing the Fool.
The President has played his part.
The loser is Comrade Kim & COMMON SENSE.
Donald Trump has walked away from a deal leaving two countries with nuclear weapons pointed at the United States.
Everyone admits that it would be insane for either side to launch their nuclear arsenals against the other. Few, however, see the insanity in placing ourselves in a position where MAD is not only possible, but probably inevitable. If we are to pull away from the ridiculous posture we've now assumed, there will need to be a paradigm shift in human thought around the world, and particularly in the United States and Russia. If not, we are doomed.
In the near future, we will program the human mind in the computer based on a linguistic "survival" algorithm, which will provide irrefutable proof as to how we trick the mind with our ridiculous beliefs about what is supposed to survive - producing minds programmed de facto for destruction. These minds see the survival of a particular belief as more important than the survival of all. When we understand this, we will begin the long trek back to reason and sanity.
See RevolutionOfReason.com
What I'd like to know is: What was the overall price tag to the American people for merely a photo op? Total waste of taxpayer money...
The problem, of course, is we cannot believe anything Trump says so his credibility is non-existent. Given what can be gleaned Trump made the right decision but I’m not sure the real reasons behind the decision.
Do I believe Trump walked away because of Kim’s demand to lift all sanctions? I’d like to because it was the correct decision. However, I also firmly believe Kim has no intention to ever dismantle his nuclear capability. He will appease but never concede. Trump is many things but dumb is not one of them.
Kim’s public demonstration of nuclear delivery rockets is what got the attention of the US, gave Kim legitimacy and a seat at the table. No leader gives up that leverage. Kim is secure in the knowledge there is no opposition to his regime. Kim is not dumb either.
Keep in mind Trump’s continuing propaganda campaign that Obama was going to war with Kim, pointing out the failure of past administrations to contain Kim and his own “Rocket Man” spectacle that brought us closest to war. All designed for what purpose?
Kim’s demand and failure to dismantle is not new news. Our intelligence community (and any clear thinking person) knows the answer to Howie Mandel’s question- “Deal or No Deal?” Is NO DEAL.
So the question remains, what is Trump’s motivation? Lots of opinions but no real answer.
I understand that the NYT editorial board is obligated to write a serious analysis of Trump's journey to Hanoi--but, let's be honest---Trump needed a staged event to divert attention to the quicksand pit he is mired in back home. The only thing missing from the meetings was Trump sitting across from Kim and saying: "you are fired."
Once in a while, a blind squirrel finds a nut. . .
1
Dear NYT Editorial Board:
You are not the duly elected President of the United States.
Trump is.
Moreover, doing things the traditional way has not gotten American anywhere - particularly in relation to North Korea, China (especially given their wholesale theft of American trade secrets and IP - I mean Huawei is run by a 'former' Chinese military official and in respect to the Paris Climate Accord China is a gross polluter given a pass for years under the agreement to the point that you need a gas mask to walk in certain Chinese major cities most of the year, which heavy metal pollution blows into Los Angeles), Iran (murderous lying pigs) and on and on and on.
Let's give this new president a chance to do things diffently.
Trump is the kid who never reads the book, but is so sure he’s smarter than the rest of us that he gets up in front of the class and wings the book report anyway. Unfortunately in this instance book = diplomacy and class = world stage. If it wasn’t so terrifying, it would be laughable.
don't trust North Korea, period.
Cohen - “Mr. Trump tasked me to handle the negative press surrounding his medical deferment from the Vietnam draft. Mr. Trump claimed it was because of a bone spur, but when I asked for medical records, he gave me none and said there was no surgery. … He finished the conversation with the following comment: ‘You think I’m stupid, I wasn’t going to Vietnam.’ And there, in a nutshell, is trump's character on full display. A wimp. A con, a fraud.
1
Put 'a very complex problem' and Trump* together in a room, and only delusion would expect a constructive outcome.
"and right"? So now the NYT has moved the goalposts as well? He managed not to do anything too disastrous, except to give more credibility to arguably the most monstrous dictator on earth while saying he "took him at his word" that he had nothing to do with the death of Otto Warmbier. How low can this country go?
At least the Nobel Peace Prize problem has been solved.
I don't have much confidence in the fat kid with nuclear weapons. I don't have confidence in Kim Jong-un either.
2
One thing Trump got wrong--no one seems to acknowledge it--is the venue. A cardinal rule of negotiation is negotiate on home soil if possible; if you can't, do so on neutral ground. What's implied but not stated in the rule book is: "Never negotiate national policy on the turf of the former adversary that delivered the worst diplomatic and military defeat in your nation's history." Trump's choice of Hanoi suggested a more appropriate subliminal Shibboleth that better characterizes his antics: "Make America Weak Again."
Damned with faint praise.
While I am not suggesting bubbly editorials about the president, the editorial board said he got some things right. Those right things are difficult to find, particularly when the positive statement is followed by a negative qualifier.
I rewrote the following sentence so the entire sentence was positive, not just the first half.
"It was a restrained, sensible reaction from a president" and demonstrated he was not "in a headlong rush for any deal that would give him ... the appearance of a foreign policy victory."
I see word choices in the editorial that are unnecessarily negative, which surprised me. I don't expect or want bubbly editorials from the NYT, but I would appreciate a more neutral portrayal of the president, when warranted.
1
There may be a "deal" to be made here. Talks should continue without the two 300-pound gorillas in the room. South Korea should have a seat somewhere in the room. I try hard not to let my contempt for Mr. Trump muddy the waters on this issue. But his strutting and grade-school lecturing about "Sometimes it's better to walk away..." make that very very difficult. Still, I wish this venture well. As usual, Trump is here operating on terrain which, if it were occupied by a Dem president, would be eliciting howls of bloody murder from the Republican party.
Titular (and psycho-bombastic) figureheads should get together for the glorious and beautiful signing ceremony after the smart people have done the negotiating behind closed doors.
This was an attempt at de-nuclearization... not the purchase of a Madison Ave penthouse.
Leon Penatta is right: We should seek to limit North Korea's nuclear weapons, not to eliminate them entirely.
And the US should remember that Japan raped Korea from 1910 to 1945.
1
Are there others who see the Trump-Kim negotiations as the Korean “Stringing the Rube(Donald) Along”?
There’s NO WAY the ultra paranoid Dictator Kim gives up his security-blanket-nukes, ever.
That Der Trump pretends there is a chance insults his intelligence and ours.
Yes, "Sometimes you have to walk" and occasionally you have to think...even "stable genus" types.
Realistically, this foray ended in the least bad way it could have with the temperature, appearing at least, to remain low.
But nothing is settled, shoes are still ready to drop and for the Nobel Committee, it's coitus interruptus.
Stand by for Act III.
Assuming Trump is not totally incompetent, he should have been aware that the summit would fail. Hence he may be setting up a preemptive strike. (I pray not.)
Considering Trump's domestic political and criminal vulnerabilities, there is nothing like a contained war to divert attention. And Trump is capable of such Machiavellian act. Of course a great loss of life and the possibility of having to engage China is real. But Trump is only concerned about Trump at any cost.
Of course my base assumption, competency is highly suspect. Maybe he is a total fool with no plan.
I have zero confidence that any substantive deal can be reached with Donald Trump negotiating. He cannot negotiate his way out of a paper bag.
I thank the gods that he didn't cave in to Kim's demands, but if this pathetic performance is not a reflection of what can occur when you have a president who doesn't like briefings and brags about his instincts and "shooting from the hip" then I don't know what would be.
Calling a mass murderer his "friend" was more than embarrassing. It was truly appalling. Add Kim to the list of murderous dictators that Donald Trump considers friend-worthy.
I am sure the list will continue to grow.
1
Regardless of this event´s result, I think it is noteworthy to acknowledge that thanks to these talks at least Japan has not seen more missles been thrown at it in those so -called trials. Nor has the US had more menaces on its coasts. I think so much progress couldn´t have happened under BHO watch.
Kim made a fool of Trump. Kim comes off sounding reasonable & rational while Trump appears unprepared & anxious to be given the Noble Peace Prize, just like his arch nemesis Barack Obama.
As his ghost writer wrote, Trump is not a deal maker, he’s all bluster & ignorance concerned only about his image.
In many ways Kim & Trump are 2 peas in a pod, but the real statesmen behind the scenes can get the job done, even though handicapped by the egos of their totalitarian bosses.
And all those trumpers that claimed his business acumen and hard negotiating style were a much needed change for the US. Go figure.
2
A grandiose gesture is no substitute for diplomacy. A bilateral agreement between the US and North Korea, which are geographically half a world apart, cannot solve multi-national, international concerns.
Is it not curious that China and Russia, which have common borders with North Korea, seem unconcerned by the North Korean nuclear "threat"? Why are great cities like Beijing, Shanghai, and Vladivostok, which are situated only a few hundred miles from North Korea, not in panic?
North Korea is a threat to the US only because the US is a threat to North Korea. There is much fertile ground for bi-lateral negotiations, and for wider negotiations involving South Korea, China, and Russia.
Let's end the Trump-style photo ops and the Bolton-style threats with a sincere effort to negotiate a settlement!
2
Trump does not get credit for what he achieved with Kim. The nuclear testing has been halted and this is large. This testing is one of the really "bad" things about nuclear proliferation, because of the havoc it causes. He also further cultivated a constructive relationship with a difficult individual, under trying circumstances .For those who think this is the same as letting Kim do anything, see above.
It does nothing for the citizens of North Korea, for this country to cry about tyranny and despots. Trump did what he should do in keeping diplomatic ties... One must remember that we have sanctions in place on North Korea. Trump can at any time entice North Korea with piecemeal sanction removal and... We don't really know if Kim is the final word do we?
We really do not know what is being considered, regardless of the talking head for North Korea, or...whom really is the decision maker. People always seem to forget this fact. Any broadcast from North Korea is for effect and not to convey information. Other countries in the area who are affected by testing, rely on this country to have a good relationship with North Korea. This relationship is also vital to balance Chinese imperialism.
1
"If the American explanation is correct — that North Korea wanted all economic sanctions lifted in return only for dismantling its nuclear complex at Yongbyon — then Mr. Trump made the right call in walking away."
It seems that the House Foreign Affairs committee needs to have Mike Pompeo testify in order to determine whether the US account or the N. Korean account is accurate.
1
Unlike this article, I do not give Trump any credit at all. NORMALLY, the underlings would have negotiated a sign-able agreement before the heads of state meet. His "go away from the table" signified his failure to secure an agreeable agreement. No other president would have to "walk away from the table". And why it is worthy of praise when " the presiden discussed the outcome in calm and measured tones." That would be the NORM for any other president. Trump did not get anything right in this event.
1
The interested parties of the North Korea are, as a matter of fact, the South Korea and Japan; the North could get away (with tacit approval from China, Russia, and possibly the US) after launching nuclear bombs and exchanging fire. What perplexes me is they seem to be content with being minors while only the US behaves as a responsible adult (as the North wishes). (But I suppose President Moon is doing well within his capacity, e.g., approaching China and the North besides flattering Mr. Trump by himself.)
If Japan were left alone, it had to use an asset, many Korean descendants living there who are sympathetic to the North. If Japan cannot make peace with them and cannot find room to trust them, why possible with the North? PM Abe's total dependence on Mr. Trump is just shelving the matter and his antagonistic attitude toward them is making it worse.
I hope Mr. Trump comes to realize that the relation between the North and the rest of the world is not something he can handle with his deal making ability and decides to leave the problem to the South and Japan, where the problem really resides. Only having numerous talks among these three countries for trust building can solve the problem.
The Editorial Board missed the point. This was a deliberate, concerted approach to humiliate Trump who walked right into the Xi/Kim trap.
The NK deal died because Kim made specific demands he knew Trump could not agree with. Now, Trump needs a tariff deal with China even more than before. I think the expression is: "Donald is playing checkers whereas China is playing chess".
Unlike Donald, Xi & Kim listen to their advisors. Unlike Donald, Xi & Kim don't rely on "gut feel" to make complex decisions. The bigger prize was to force Donald to back off on tariff issues important to the United States. After Cohen, Donald desperately needs a win to appease his base.
Donald's failure to properly handle the negotiation means the tariff war he claimed was "easy to win", has been a complete disaster. American farmers lost 95% of their export market for naught. There will be no substantive fix for IP and no modification to China's state owned business model.
Donald, as America's representative, humiliated MY America. By now, every major corporation would have replaced such an ineffective CEO.
2
From personality traits of Kim Jong-un to the North Korean history of nuclear blackmail and even the lingering Chinese shadow behind, Trump got everything wrong about North Korea and its chessgame in the Korean Peninsula as proved by the failed summit outcome.
5
the United States : we sanctioned you because of your nuclear weapons, so you have to remove the weapons to remove sanctions.
North Korea : we made nuclear weapons because of your hostile policies(including sanctions), so you have to remove the policies to remove the weapons.
one's cause is the other's result ; one's reward is the other's condition. I can't imagine more complex problem than this.
as Mr. Kristof said yesterday, to exchange a freeze on the Yongbyon complex and inter-Korea economic projects may be a realistic start, for now. the next step should be thought afterward.
Trump went to Hanoi to boost his ego and for a photo op. It’s clear that he and his underlings were totally unprepared. What do you expect from a proven liar, adulterer, tax cheat and con man?
6
The mark of Trump: arrogant and incompetent, all the way around and everywhere, everything is just "a show".
You can not judge what is happening at this stage in the negotiations.
It is unreasonable to expect results.
Real negotiations can not be done in public and to think you will see results is because you do not understand the art of negotiating.
No matter how much you hate Trump if you can see beyond that hate you will see a guy who knows how to negotiate.
This is why they are still talking.
The hearing being held now in Washington will not get the evidence to impeach Trump but it will make it impossible for Trump to succeed in his negotiations with Kim.
I think the Democrats are trying to sabotage the negotiations because they know Trump will be re elected if he succeeds.
They are no better than the Republicans.
We need a third party that can work to help the country instead of working to help themselves win in 2020.
3
It seems ABSURD to blame Mr. Trump's incompetence and failures on Democrats.
Oh, nonsense. One reason that Trump's negotiations have failed is that he doesn't know how to negotiate, insisting on carrying out talks more or less in public with obviously deficient preliminary negotiations teeing up a possible agreement.
Some problems, alas, don't have a solution. Kim will never give up his nukes and his missiles because he saw where Gaddafi took that bayonet.
@lucky
I have a bridge to sell you.
This was a fool's errand and a symptom of "I alone can do it".
No, trump, you can't. If you really knew The Art of the Deal, you would have first prepared by assembling a team of seasoned diplomats (if there are any left in the State Department) and technical experts (if you have not driven them all out of government service) to meet with their opposite numbers from North Korea. And you would have teamed them up with other interested nations, especially South Korea.
There's a template for this, the negotiations that led to the Iran nuclear agreement, that you are busy sabotaging.
3
Pardon me for being jaded but Trump got nothing right and will never get anything right with North Korea. He has a delusional notion that diplomacy is all about his personality; his "gift" of making deals one-on-one. No need for preparation before the meeting. He'll charm Kim into denuclearization. This is the mind of a juvenile egomaniac. Not only does he "know more than the generals," Trump knows more than the diplomatists.
3
Perhaps negotiations with Kim will go better next time if they just meet in North Korea, let's say, at the prison where Otto F. Warmbier was detained & murdered.
According to Kim, & therefore according to Trump, Kim was unaware that this young American college student, imprisoned & tortured for 17 months for allegedly trying to steal a propaganda poster, was returned to his parents blind, deaf, unresponsive, with a feeding tube down his nose & catastrophically brain-damaged. He was dead in just a few days.
Given Kim's infamous hospitality & Trump's belief in his word over all others, perhaps Pres. Trump would enjoy an extended stay there.
1
Maybe his bone spurs were acting up and he had to get out of Vietnam as quickly as possible.
3
“...and I will take him at his word”, Says Trump of Kim’s claims re the death of Warmbier. Our POTUS, took the Saudi’s Prince’s word re Khashoggi and he most definitely assured us all that Putin would never meddle in a US election.
Guess what Donald, most of us don’t think your “word” is too reliable. You make me embarrassed for the office you hold. Despots and Dictators; it’s astounding.
1
The puzzling thing to me is why South Korea with a much greater military-aged population than North Korea, a much greater industrial capacity and its many engineers (including nuclear) cannot deal with North Korea on its own. Of course, it is more economical to have Uncle Sucker do it for them.
2
He was right and was wrong. He was right to leave because at this point NK is not giving up the bomb. No country ever has! He was wrong because he thought his personality could change the the minds of North Korea. He believes he can command a relationship. The ground work he did to prepare for the summit was totally worthless. Guess who he sent?
Kim Jong Un called Donald Trump a dotard (Noun:
An old person, especially one who has become physically weak or whose mental faculties have declined.) He is partially correct as I doubt that the Donald has ever had great mental faculties.
Apart from this Kim won round one, and was handsomely rewarded by the meeting with the US President. That meeting gave Kim world status as a de-facto member of the nuclear club, instead of being treated as an abhorrent dictator Trump praises him, called military exercises in exchange for very little. Kim must think that all his birthdays has come at once. Trump is the true danger.
1
Why is everyone pretty much disregarding the literally Orwellian and darkly criminal nature of the North Korean regime? Barbaric prisons and labor camps, compulsory mass worship at the altar of the Dear Leader, a de facto ban on all forms of personal privacy. Why is the American president meeting him on more or less equal terms, as a legitimate peer and respectable head of state? This in itself constitutes a major capitulation to North Korea. Foreign policy can't get much worse.
2
How should we interpret Trump's "sideways waving" as he is walking away? He seems to do that regularly. It seems disrespectful to not look at those you are waving to. Poor etiquette?
1
Kim wins again! He will continue to win. He will win as long as North Koreans don’t get tired of winning.
I am happy that Trump will find another "glittering object" to play with; those matters are indeed "complex problems" .Please keep Trump away from nuclear matters; don't juggle with chainsaws...
1
He did exactly what you wanted which is for Trump to reject an unfair deal, but, and why am I surprised, you are complaining anyway.
Suppose Modi and Imran meet and it does not work out. That does not mean that they were wrong to meet - they would have been wrong NOT to meet.
And Trump was quite right to try to work out something. Who knows, maybe with more pressure Kim will give more. I will wait and see, and I will watch you complaining as is your wont.
3
Surely the Board knows Trump well enough not to expect "adequate preparation?" An impossibility for Trump - which would just slow him down - and it hasn't worked for previous administrations, so why would it do so now?
Were you really expecting something Big to come out of Trump and Kim such that not getting that is a "collapse?" Or were you taken-in by Trump's fight-night buildup?
Cheap shot to call this a failure. It's only a failure when there's a reasonable expectation of success. Any real success would have been a miracle.
Trump did nothing right or wrong, he simply did Trump. What more can you ask? Did you expect a Peace Prize?
1
The expectation that North Korea will de-nuclearize is flawed, especially because the United States continually reinforces the Hermit Kingdom’s belief that its nuclear capability is its chief bargaining tool.
North Korea’s ambitions are clear: maintain the nation’s nuclear program, eliminate the US military presence from the Korean peninsula, and develop its economy along the model of China and Vietnam. Kim Jong-Un is savvy enough to understand, however, that modernization and economic development could lead to his eventual downfall. Improved living conditions create more free thinkers. Kim Il-Sung’s interpretation of Marxist-Leninism, elaborated through his concept of “Juche” (self-reliance), is hopelessly out of touch with socioeconomic reality. North Korea is completely reliant on China to sustain its economy.
The United States wants to neutralize North Korea’s nuclear capabilities, but its long-term goals are less clear. To transform the nation into a Western-style democracy? To develop North Korea economically with corporate know-how and gain access to this new market?
The United States should work with South Korea in mediating its interests in the Korean peninsula. De-nuclearization is a red herring.
Today, there is a greater likelihood that Pakistan and India will destroy one another.
The only serious nuclear threat is from radical Islam.
2
If the headlines and articles on this summit are to be believed then I believe that the US position is unreasonable. Imposing sanctions is a form of an attack on a country and asking a nation to completely disarm before lifting sanctions is essentially holding a gum to that country's head and heart. It is not a negotiating position. What North Korea's intentions are is unclear but lifting sanctions that could be reimposed in exchange for the dismantling of its largest nuclear facility is a start though my belief that a peace treaty ending the Korean War would be a better first step. Further, denuclearization must include both the US and South Korea dismantling and/or removing its nuclear weapons from the Korean peninsula. The United States, the mightiest nation the world has ever seen, can have its way militarily and economically with North Korea at any time of its choosing. For me, there was little risk in lifting the sanctions in exchange for the North Korean proposal to dismantle its site. Finally, the North Koreans cannot be certain how long Donald Trump will be President and whether his successor(s) will continue the policy of engagement. This small country has shown itself for over 65 years and three leaders to be a clever and skilled player on the international stage avoiding a hot war with the US and surviving while building its nuclear deterrent. It is they who are threatened and not the US.
@Elliott Jacobson
Its funny because it also occurred to me that Donald Trump's reelection might drastically change what is on the table. I can't say I would blame Kim... Its not like the political establishment is behind Trump to succeed.
American has always been inconsistent in dealing with dictators. Stalin and Mao purged more people than all the leaders of North Korea. Yet our government worked with both. None of the Gulf states is a democracy, yet to use the word of this editorial a long line of American presidents have been "chummy" with their leaders. Neither China, Russia nor Vietnam--the proposed example for NK--is a democracy.
We need to do some soul searching as a country on how to be even-handed in our criticism of non-democracies and we need to consider how loudly and persistently we want to criticize non-democratic actions of countries we need to cooperate with--if only to avoid war. The answers may be elusive, but the questions should be considered.
The basics
1. Korea , until 1895, was considered by China to by part of
China, and invaded numerous times by China
2. The contemporary closeness to China is the result of
the exceedingly brutal invasion of China and Korea,
both suffering unspeakable crimes committed by the
Japanese
3. As this memory fades, Korea will move back to its
historic relation with China - Korea's entire history
is about how conflict with China and how to live
as much as possible independent of it.
4. In that it resembles Vietnam, a country that is now
playing up its relation with the US to balance China
5. Kim is caught between
a) A population that wants a higher standard of living
b) A population that dislikes China
c) A military that will fight any attempts to denuke
6. Something like that status of Vietnam might be possible
if :
a) China agrees , and to do so, the PRC will insist that
b) the US withdraws al US military and missile batteries
from S. Korea
c) China, Japan and the US agree to treat both N and S
Korea as a neutral state
7. A long shot, but the game is NOT over. Kim's
population, aware of how well the Chinese, S.
Koreans and Vietnamese live, is getting restless
8. To those who claim "the outcome was predictable"
No, Kim is not sitting in a train for 120 hours for a
preordained failure.
3
@talesofgenji
Uh ... can you please explain how from the point of view of Kim, getting a dinner and lots of compliments from a US president, and then going back home all while not having given up anything and nicely continuing to expand your nuclear weapons arsenal is somehow a "failure", rather than a resounding victory?
And remember, as a dictator he NEEDS a poor and ignorant population, rather than humanitarian aid (as Venezuela's dictator has recently shown too) ...
1
I never had any hopes for this summit to begin with. It was all just "show". It's all it ever could be.
All I've been able to do since the inauguration is watch the geopolitical chess pieces move. Now it's our opponents' (Russia/China/North Korea/Iran) turn.
The problem is: Trump doesn't know how to play chess, and has no patience for it. He just makes headline-grabbing proclamations and insults because, in his prior life, that "worked" (or, if nothing else, was at least entertaining and good for ratings).
So now what? The chess pieces have moved. The board is different now.
Either we retreat into our castle, or trade pieces...
...or both...
1
From Nobel Peace Prize to Rotten Tomatos rating? Trump's 'personal diplomacy' fails again. Putin at Helsinki was a flagrant indicator that Trump's personal gut was an odds with U. S. intelligence and the homework that should precede personal summit diplomacy. Continuing to be a personal buddy of killer Mohamed bin Salman is another Trump 'personal triumph.' Now that Netanyahu is being indicted on various charges, what can we expect from these two Trump/Kushner personal buddies? As a former Foreign Service Officer, I am appalled, but not surprised, at Trump's gut 'art of the deal.' Meanwhile, our allies in Europe seem to
be on Trump's gut-no-buddy list. Sad!
2
Perhaps if Trump allowed the professionals to ascertain the facts and possibilities without the emotions of a "love affair" clouding up the reality of nuke deals . Our apprentice president is all show biz no substance and his affinity for brutal murderous dictators will destroy America's image around the world. The country does not need to be part of TRump's crime family style of governing.
1
Do not normalize Trump. The likelihood is that he was beside himself over the Cohen hearing and Pompeo, Bolton and Mulvaney had to pull the plug before he did something that couldn't be walked back. Cynical? Perhaps, but given his history and his behavior/bearing in the press conference, not out of the question.
4
At least Trump knew enough to walk away from a bad deal, unlike President Obama, who was desperate to get a deal, any deal, with Iran. Obama should have walked away from that deal.
2
@J. Waddell
That was a difficult multinational negotiation that resulted in an excellent deal. And it worked to contain nuclear Iran. That's the way it should be done.
2
@J. Waddell
Let's see. Obama managed to negotiate and obtain full denuclearization from Iran, whereas Trump regularly has dinner with Kim and then just lets him continue to produce even more nuclear weapons, and somehow the "winner" here would be Trump, and the "loser" Obama ... ?
Any concrete arguments to back up such an absurd hypothesis?
1
Kim's offer to dismantle their plutonium production facilities was worthless. It has been known for some time that they are pursuing uranium enrichment via centrifuge technology. Highly enriched uranium (HEU) is not only much easier to handle and store, it makes for more robust warheads due to lesser corrosion. In addition, HEU production will give them a virtually limitless supply of bomb fuel.
I'm sure Trump understands none of that, but apparently someone on his negotiating "team" at least got him to "walk away."
If the advance team had any clue that the only thing Kim would offer was dismantling the plutonium production facility, there should never have been any meeting at all.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-american-scientist-whos-seen-north-korea-nuclear-secrets/
4
I think Kim feels that nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles are key to his survival. We have two choices: Live with N. Korea as a nuclear power, or put enough pressure on the regime through sanctions that Kim cannot survive.
My personal feeling is that we should continue tough sanctions, but basically ignore N. Korea. Let S. Korea and Japan develop their own nukes so that the cost to N. Korea of using theirs would be prohibitive, and then go on with life.
1
"In advance of the summit talks, there were reports that the administration might agree to more economic interaction between North Korea and South Korea, a declaration acknowledging the end of Korean War hostilities, expansion of people-to-people exchanges and liaison offices in each other’s capitals."
Why didn't Trump propose any of these things?
He hit a base-loaded home run when he won the presidential election. He hit a home run when his tax bill passed. After these wins, he continues to dream he can use his charisma and force of personality to bulldoze through another huge victory.
But Kim is smarter than those who voted for Trump and braver than the spineless congressmen and lackeys who support his despicable actions and tweets.
It seems Kim has read "The Art of the Deal" and applied its lessons brilliantly. Putin and Xi have surely noticed this and they would not dream of helping Trump out of his mess by enforcing sanctions against the little rocket man.
I can't see Trump heeding the advice of the editors of the NY Times and leading his diplomatic team and interested nations thorough years of painstaking effort to achieve the kind of treaty Obama got with Iran. Which treaty, of course, Trump has tried to scuttle.
4
"It was a good sign that the president discussed the outcome in calm and measured tones"
That a - by the way outstanding - NYT editorial feels the need to write things like this shows how extremely weak foreign policy under this Trump-GOP administration has become.
With the GOP governing the country, just having an outcome (which in this particular case means no progress at all, as after his dinner with Trump Kim will simply continue to increase his nuclear weapons arsenal - with his weapons pointed towards the US) that is being "discussed" in a "calm and measured" tone is already a huge relief.
We're far far away from Obama's Iran nuclear agreement style deal, where a US enemy accepts America's main objective (= to immediately dismantle all nuclear weapons facilities). Nothing at all has been achieved in Vietnam, and here we are, with the NYT nevertheless celebrating ... the fact that the president spoke calmly.
The only alternative today? A US president constantly writing tweets with ad hominem attacks on North Korea's leader.
Day after day, Republicans demonstrate what a strong leader president Obama has been, when it comes to denuclearizing America's chief international foes ...
1
There's no mention of the meeting in 'China Daily' so I presume the newspaper is heavily censored. China is North Koreas puppet master. (Russia would probably like to be as well) Maybe take another track - like the Silk Road project. I'm sure if North Korea de-nuked they could become part of the Silk Road project and the nation would prosper. China is obsessed with completing the Silk Road project so if you want North Korea to de-nuke then you need to use what is close the Chinese leaders heart strings to negotiate a deal.
Shot down in Vietnam. Somewhere, John McCain is smiling.
RIP, Sir.
6
I wish Mr. Trump would steer clear of such phrases as "--and I took him at his word."
Did you, sir? Did you indeed?
Are you aware, Mr. President, that the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale? Five million dollars! A steal! Get it before someone else does.
(Though I do think "someone else" is unlikely to be Mr. Kim Jong-un.)
I recall too, sir, your meeting last year with Mr. Putin. Who assured you (in the teeth of sundry American intelligence agencies) that: oh no! he'd NEVER interfere in so sacred a business as an American election.
(Now would HE be interested in the Brooklyn Bridge? No?)
I think this problem is by no means confined to Mr. Donald J. Trump. When you're "king of the hill"--"top dog"--"the big cheese"--the thought must inevitably occur: if only I could meet face-to face with the OTHER "top dog"--"big cheese"--et cetera--
--we could work things out.
"I got the impression," declared Chamberlain after Munich (October, 1938) that, in spite of the hardness and bluster--
"--this was a man whose word I could count on."
Oh dear.
I'm no diplomat, New York Times. But how could you NOT be right?
Slow and steady--
--wins the race.
Trump already gave up US and SK military practice in the region for a fake NK reduction in nuclear test sites. Kim will keep trying to troll Trump until he has something for nothing again.
The American bargaining position is a farce. The president talks a fancy game of promising to help NK develop a booming tourist economy. That is all Trump understands about a country - marketing their beaches and golf courses. But the Kim people have studied Trump. They know his promises of big payments, amazing condos rising above the beautiful ocean views and the Kim family rolling in money is a tall tale from a man who doesn't pay back his partners and bankrupted most of his own schemes.
Are Kim and Trump having a love affair? All the video of them together remind me of Charles and Diana before the divorce was announced. The more Trump hypes their relationship as being special, the more likely it is the opposite. He is after all a mirror reflection of reality. His best means our worst.
2
@MKKW
Kim is a dictator.
He doesn't need a booming tourist industry. He needs people who are poor and ignorant.
All that Trump has shown during the last two days is his utter political illiteracy.
they say that North Korea has no intention of giving up nuclear ambitions. I want to ask back: how do you know that? what makes you so certain that they don't? what if a North Korean person says, with unwavering conviction, that the US has no intention of lifting economic sanctions? How would you respond to that?
2
I don't know who is more full of themselves, the Liberal media or Republicans? You did not see this was a "wag the dog" moment that the useless president could not pull off because he was dealing with another dictator?
I saw nothing but propaganda and lapdog reporters. There has never been an inkling toward us getting to where we wanted to go, but you were all out there bleating on about what could or could not come out of the man-date as if to believe the 2 dictators and liars. The emperor is naked, but the media is blind.
there goes the Nobel prize
3
Incompetence, delusion, laziness, desperation, and illegitimacy as well as suspicion and hubris do not make a solid diplomatic foundation necessary to achieve anything worthwhile. Trump is hardly the negotiator he sells himself to be. He is a absolute failure.
3
Chess and Tic-Tac-Toe?
China plays chess through its proxy North Korea. Trump can't play chess or checkers. He resorts to tic-tac-toe and loses...sad
1
Kimism is a legacy of Maoism and Stalinism, laced with theocracy. The Kim family represents God in North Korea.
No nation is divine.
The talks fell through, eh? What happened, Kim wouldn't let Donnie put a Trump Tower in Pyongyang?
1
Wait, the Times admits Trump got something right? Another sign of the Apocalypse. Obviously this slipped past the Times editors...
Mr. Trump,
I guess suddenly the Iran ageeement isn’t looking so bad any more, huh?
1
This outcome, while predictable, should have never happened. Had the American side been prepared, we would have known the DPRK's non-negotiables in advance. This "summit" was nothing more than a photo-op. But the consequences of a stalemate are dangerous. North Korea's cementing of its nuclear arms capacity is achieved. Their nuclear program development continues and our negotiating prowess is increasingly weakened. And Kim plays the South Korea card smartly, seeking to drive a wedge between us and our close ally. We need diplomacy, not let's-make-a-deal showmanship.
108
@charlie corcoran
With Trump braking the Iran agreement there is no way Kim will take him for his word. Not gonna happen!
16
@charlie corcoran: One irony here is this "photo op" is now photographic evidence of consummate failure, all in Trump's lap. It would not surprise me to hear Trump in a few days denying he even met with Kim. He will most certainly claim the trip was a success; after all, it's trumpworld where up is down, down is up.
7
@charlie corcoran: We also need a South Korea that, on its own, will provide for its defense. It can. It has more military-aged citizens than North Korea, a highly developed industrial economy and both nuclear reactors and nuclear scientists. Why is the problem ours, not theirs?
3
I find it unbelievable that U.S. and North Koream officials had not come to at least a modest agreement prior to the failed Trump-Kim summit. Anyone who thought that Mr. Trump and Mr. Kim could sit in a room for a few hours and work out some sort of agreement on the technically demanding issues of dismantling nuclear facilities and lifting sanctions clearly has no understanding of how these types of negotiations proceed. In retrospect, it appears that Mr. Trump badly wanted a foreign policy win - instead he fell on his face.
56
@Mathman314When you've gutted the State Department of all competence, what can you expect except failure?
16
@Mathman314
North Korea thought Trump needed a deal so bad that he could be rolled. Walking away from a bad deal was the right move. Trump will now tell Xi, China has to adhere to NK sanctions or the trade tariffs to back on - squeezing Kim more to get another offer. Hopefully next time Pompeo and Bolton will do the preliminary work. Apparently, Kim has agreed to continue the freeze which if true indicates he needs a deal to fund his economy - he's running out of money.
6
@OldTimer - No, sorry. You had it right the first time: Trump got rolled.
Thing is, he set himself up for failure.
He was so sure Kim Jong-un considered him a "friend." After all, it's what works with Trump, too - flatter him, and you stay on his good side.
The idea that negotiations might require anything more than him sitting down with his new good friend never occurred to Trump.
PS: If you were wondering whether Trump is a danger to the US, you've got proof. Bluster does not equate with competence - particularly when the bluster comes from a lying crook.
9
I am not a fan of Trump. I do think though he tried something different/new attempting to have a top down relationship with North Korea's leader and I don't know if it is such a bad thing to try something new when the old isn't working. I don't think it had to go so far as to "fall in love" to have achieved the same result that it has so far. It may be now though the new has seen its limit and is time to fall back on the down to up model again or a combination of both. In the end though I think the key to denuclearization will be some kind of security guarantee for the NK leader if he should ever agree to give up his power and regime.
10
A guarantee like what Libya got?
And can anyone trust Trump to keep a deal?
Or, for that matter, can anyone trust a future POTUS of keeping a treaty now that Trump has set the precedents of tearing up deal after deal?
10
@Karena
There was never denuclearization on the table and will not be denuclearization in the future.
Anything else is just pure incompetence.
5
@D.A. Oh
I am not familiar with what happened in Libya.
I am thinking the NK leader and family would have to live in exile, question is who wants them.
As for POTUS and trust of agreements or pursuing agreements with the U.S. what other option is there except to not. I am going only by gut but despite the recent agreement withdrawals by this POTUS, there is still goodwill for and about the U.S. maybe somewhat eroded but not gone in the world.
If I had to guess, Trump realized the Cohen testimony had already eclipsed any media attention Trump was going to get from Kim so he bailed. He's headed home to work on disaster recovery from the Committee hearing.
Trump's premature departure is probably best for the national interest. I'd rather see Trump make no progress rather than have him make progress in the wrong direction. Still, you wonder about the health and stability of our nation when Korea's leader is laughing at our President when a reporter asks him about Cohen.
President Trump clearly is not negotiating from a position of strength. Not in North Korea and not anywhere else.
37
@Andy
I posted a similar comment in the X today. All the credit for walking away is ill-advised. djt needed to get home after yesterday's revelation in Congress. Not a genius move, but his usual impetuosity and zero attention span winning the day. When are we going to get real about the fact that this person has NO, zip, zero idea what he is doing? In my post, I asked for my money back after this costly, foolish photo op getaway! I won't hold my breath waiting.
Walking away has been Trumps negotiating style for the last two years in government, and for decades in business. Why would anyone expect anything else?
23
@David - Chapter 2 of the Standardized Real Estate Developer's handbook, titled, "if you can't dazzle 'em with Brilliance, baffle 'em with Bluster". 1. Huff and puff, bloviate and blather, pretend you'll walk away from the "deal" in the hope of intimidating the local zoning board. 2. If that fails, try to buy 'em off under the table (step 2 is harder when the whole world is watching…).
Take Kim at his word. Take Putin at his word. Take Trump at his word?
Agreement on "complex issues." You mean like a juvenile delinquent with his chubby finger on the nuclear missile switch?
Kim's "complex issue," was public relations. Trump's "complex issue," was public relations. Mission accomplished!
Now everybody can go to the seashore...
3
How this editorial board, or anyone for that matter, can say Trump got anything "right" on this fiasco is beyond comprehension. He did everything wrong, and in a completely juvenile manner: He entered the meetings under the weakest of positions, as a fawning beggar showing complete abdication to Kim's leader role; Trump had no concrete plan going in, had paid zero attention to advice from true experts, brought no subject matter experts with him (which probably didn't matter since he wouldn't pay attention to them anyway), no clear position points, no anything...except his professed "love" for a dictator.
Trump was a complete failure personally and professionally; his trip was a complete failure, showing the world that he has no power, no intelligence, no gravitas anywhere. Trump is a fool, acts like a fool, and proves to be a fool. Then he praises & protects the evil person who orchestrated the death of an American student, against all evidence. That pushes him over every disgusting line, possibly including traitor status.
5
@Aaron: This newspaper got the whole 2016 election wrong. The editors here should read Rush Holt's editorial, entitled "Democracy's plight", in the 1 February 2019 issue of "Science". Science is above all a common language expressed with the precision of mathematics. We still speak Babble in political life. Liberals liberate, conservatives conserve, and reactionaries obfuscate. Watch what they do, and compare it to what they say. If we don't share a common understand of words, we cannot communicate usefully.
1
The dismal, and perhaps expected, failure of the Hanoi summit makes me wonder as to why Trump even sought the presidency and, worse, seeks to rerun. Unlike his business operations which he can run mostly as he pleases, the job of a president involves doing a lot of preparatory homework, diplomacy, having the ability to listen and, above all, learning to judge other statesmen correctly. The problem is that none of these traits comes naturally to Trump. He seems a lot more comfortable doing things instinctually even in situations requiring forethought and analysis.He totally lacks a key quality that real leaders need - astuteness. Thus, he has proven unable to correctly assess Kim Jong-un. Instead, he prattled on about some type of personal bond that only he believes in. Kim himself has not shared Trump's incautious enthusiasm. I am afraid that as long as Trump continues to operate on a purely emotional level rather than correctly assessing an external situation his interactions with world leaders is doomed to failure.
1
Hanoi summit was not historic but a stepping stone to history. Kim has seen the promised land in Vietnam and will never want North Korea to be the same anymore. There will be more summits and the saga of denuclearization of South Korea will continue albeit at a slower pace. One thing for sure, Trump is no push over and has represented the interests appropriately.
2
Kim learned the lesson of Vietnam all right. America will lose the war and rebuild your country for you.
@MKKW
First our military bombs, then our corporations clean up (while the People pay all the costs).
Wrestlers end the contest by separating. They don't do it one step at a time. Sanctions must be instantly lifted and NK allowed the option of owning its nukes. Aggression will be ended and peace will follow as NK becomes open to all investors.
1
Another editorial full of hypocrisy. The board just figures trump was not prepared. Trump walked because of North Korea. Reagan did the same thing on Gorbachev In Iceland. Trump knows North Korea needs us a lot more than we need them. Just like Reagan knew. If it was a Democratic president that walked this paper would’ve been celebrating how smart he or she was.
4
North Korea abuts China. China maintains the status of North Korea. It has done so since it intervened in the Korean War.
2
In all my time on this planet I've come to learn one thing about people. Whoever they are, however powerful, they still act like silly people. People cooperate with those that say nice things about them, and hate those that say mean things.
Am I the only one that went to school?
2
@Edward Walsh: We had to graduate to learn there is no adult supervision out here.
1
This was yet another PR stunt, seat-of-pants act by Trump. Why weren't the parameters of what agreement was available already known before such a high visibility meeting? Weren't US/South Korean negotiators doing the groundwork prior to this? Knowing that he could no longer simply dismiss the fact that the North Koreans were clearly double-talking any real disarmament, Trump staged this to either hit a home run or look pragmatic, bluntly walking away from a deal that was never there. All or nothing is not negotiation, someone tell Trump, nevermind.
1
@derekb9: I'd call it a Hail Mary pass. I don't know why Trump believed that Kim wanted to save his game.
1
Between the first and second meeting, other players have entered the field, ala Russia and China. This, along with the perceived weakness of Trump could have caused Kim Jung-un to take a harder stance. I'm not sure an agreement was the only driving reason, like Sinatra sang:
Once there was a silly old man
Thought he make accord in Vietnam
No one could make that man, scram
He kept puttin' his plan
Cause he had high hopes, he had high hopes
He had high apple pie, in the sky hopes
So any time you're feeling bad
Instead of feeling sad
Just remember that man,
Oops there goes the Nobel Peace Prize, damned.
When trouble call, and your back's against a wall
There's a lot to be learned, that wall could fall
2
The Times writes: "the window for diplomacy won’t remain open forever."
To be replace by what exactly? Tougher sanctions require Chinese and Russian participation.
Given what happened in Libya and Iraq, I suspect Kim likely regards nuclear weapons as the best guarantee that he will continue to live.
AOS: All options suck.
1
Trump's shallow flailing around for diversionary propaganda is not diplomacy! It's just propaganda and diversion. After all the M.Cohen hearings were on in Congress. Trump "accomplished lunch" with a dictator, an exercise in nothingness.
7
Diplomacy is inherently institutional. It is intended to produce enduring solutions that survive their negotiators. Extreme present hedonists do not belong in the practice.
4
Excuse me, Chairman Kim, as I step over the corpse of Otto Warmbier to embrace someone who shares my worldview and with whom I've fallen in love.
13
@Didier
Mr. Warmbier is a tragedy for sure. And Kim is a murderer also for sure.
But Kim has nuclear weapons. Would you have brought Mr. Warmbier up before, during, or after the discussions on nuclear weapons?
And Trump certainly does not love Kim or Putin or any other dictator - he's just trying to set them up so he can use them exactly the way he uses everyone else.
Not a bad strategy since these dictators are hated by all and are easily softened up by a kind word, regardless how fake those words are. Furthermore, those words are cheap, they cost nothing.
Rather than always letting the media gin you up like a Trumpster on the guy we all love to hate, we should reality check ourselves and remember that Trump has not killed thousands of innocents the way both Bush/Cheney and Nixon did. He's had plenty of chances, too. Surprised he's not started a war to shift us all away from his illegalities. He may be a mobster who needs prison time but he's just a petty mobster, not a monster like Kim is.
Editors - your own lead article reports Ri Yong-Ho as saying the North Koreans asked only for relief of sanctions that harm ordinary citizens, e.g. ban on export of textile goods. Omitting this statement from your editorial leaves readers with a distorted understanding of future possibilities and a balanced view of DPRK and US positions.
BTW, although you seem to impugn leader to leader diplomacy in this case, virtually all serious Korea watchers understand that nothing is possible without direct talks at the highest level with North Korea.
2
The NYT is being diplomatic. Trump had no idea what was going on. In response to a question from an NYT reporter Trump said that N. Korea offered to dismantle one site (Yongbyon) but he wanted to add another. The reporter said you mean the enrichment plant and Trump said Oh yeah that one. As much as Pompeo defies trust if he had not been along, who knows what would have happened.
11
What it sounds like when your US president embraces dictators over the intelligence of the president’s own Intelligence Community.
“I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial [of hacking and influencing the 2016 elections] today…” (Helsinki 2018). And we should remember ““it could be Russia,” but he immediately added: “But it could also be China. It could also be lots of other people. It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay?” (Campaign 2016).
MBS denied that he had Khashoggi killed. Trump said that the "crown prince vehemently denies" involvement…"maybe he did and maybe he didn't" (WaPo, 2018).
"trump said Kim denied having known about the condition of Otto Warmbier, "and I will take him at his word" (NYT, 2019)
Kim tells me he didn't know about Warmbier. “Big country, a lot of people. And in those prisons and those camps, you've got a lot of people. And some really bad things happened to Otto. . . . But [Kim] tells me he didn't know about it” (WaPo, 2019).
Let's hope he doesn't fire our Intelligence Community leadership - Coats? - and continue to receive his international briefings from dictators, in the same manner as trump receives his US policy briefings from his unelected cabinet: Coulter, Hannity, Ingraham and Limbaugh.
11
My perspective is that this was a Trumpian charade.
His calm , measured, tone throughout the non summit
was due to his knowing from the outset that he would walk away. Perhaps his North Korean counterpart knew as well.
Too calm and choreographed for these 2 madmen.
What they have up there sleeves is yet to be seen.
The obvious reason is to distract attention and escape from the dangerous probes into his affairs( no pun intended) domestic and foreign. Kim may have been more than willing to help Trump. He smells corrupt billions as do so many others who become intoxicated by this greed monger of a president. He want his kimche and to eat it too
1
This opinion piece is too kind.
Yes, trump did nothing to prepare for this meeting. He expected lower level officials to handle the negotiations. Then, he planned to walk in, shake hands with kim, smile for the cameras and that would be that. His 'my way or the highway' negotiating style is a losing strategy. It may impress his MAGA base, but it utterly fails when trump has to deal with sovereign nations.
Supposedly, the strategy was for kim to give up his nukes, which would allow NK to enter the world community, encourage investment and status as a trading partner. Sound familiar??? This was the premise behind the Iranian nuclear deal and President Obama’s plan to re-establish relations with Cuba. Of course then, trump and republicans were appalled and worked to destroy President Obama's initiatives.
Then, we watched the outrage of trump standing with despot and murderous thug, Kim -- taking kim's word that dear leader knew nothing about Otto Warmbier's death.
Let's not forget, on this trip trump sought to deny access to all print journalists from his dinner with kim because they dared ask about his response to Cohen's testimony.
All this for the world to see, the leader of the free world once again, strutting and fretting his hour on the stage and accomplishing nothing. He is a sorry excuse for a statesman and a shabby representative of our republic.
18
Trump chose Bolton and Pompeo two of the most bombastic characters in Washington.The Neocons have been blowing up the world and killing innocent civilians and our own boys for years.Nothing is going to get accomplished until these war criminals are gone.Now they have their guns pointed at Maduro I wonder how many will die there?
7
What is missing in the analysis is the two different starting point of the reproachment. Kim feels that US is at the table because N Korea is now a nuclear power. Trump feels that Kim is at the table bacause of his need to escape economic sanction. So each holds fast to his bottom line while demanding the other to give up theirs. This will never work unless each side gives a little. In another words, careful and patient diplomacy.
2
“They were willing to denuke a large portion of the areas we wanted but we couldn’t give up all the sanctions for that,” Trump said.
This must be a misrepresentation of the attempted bargain.
A country either has nukes or it doesn't.
Trump can't really think (or expect us to think) that to "denuke a large portion of the areas we wanted" is meaningful in any way.
If Kim does NOT denuke ALL PORTIONS of ALL AREAS, then Kim will not have denuked at all.
So why is Trump trying to tell us he almost got Kim to partially denuke but Kim wanted too much?
Because Trump's a liar and he's playing us for fools.
For the Donald and his political game, it's always:
Trump First
Party Second
America Last
4
The current US administration are rank amateurs. They are unprepared to adopt positions that bring order and discipline to the nation and international security. They are led by an undisciplined and wholly inept and incompetent president that has the intellectual capacity of a nine year old (the assessment of his former Defence Secretary I believe).
There are good and competent people that work for the US government and have great ability to get the hard work done. They are hampered by a president that is unprepared to do the hard work needed to lead the nation and the free world. There are also many opportunists (like Trump) who are only in positions of power because they are wealthy and donated money to help get Republicans elected. They are the swamp creatures that are destroying the nation bit by bit.
The next election in 2020 will be key to the future of the nation. Good luck.
7
@Lew: The Trump administration has discouraged competent people of all stripes. The diplomatic corps has been humiliated.
2
@Steve Bolger. Sorry, i was thinking more of the career government employees as opposed to the political appointees. You are correct: incompetence attracts incompetents.
No one despises the charlatan-in-chief more than I but it must be said that engaging North Korea and allowing Kim to have his place on the world stage has not only reduced but practically eliminated the risk of war that existed not 2 years ago. And let's be honest - Kim having nuclear weapons isn't any more egregious than Pakistan or India having the same. Bottom line is that North Korea felt hemmed in to the point that it was prepared to strike out in order to survive. They no longer seem to feel that way and that is a positive achievement that cannot be denied. I don't think Trump understands the issues one way or another but the result of their talks HAS given Kim his place at the table of world leaders that at a minimum will keep him from pushing the button that was very close to being pushed with all those missiles flying overhead. Obama, who did understand the geopolitics of the region, should have engaged Kim rather than trying, in vain, to starve the country into submission because that strategy never works with a dictatorship.
@ManhattanWilliam
All that attempting to starve North Korea into submission has done is funnel their young people into its huge military system, because that is their best hope for food and shelter and some chance of advancement.
The "window for diplomacy" slammed shut in 1950 when North Korea invaded South Korea.
It's been 69 years and counting, Esteemed Editorial Board.
Show us one example of "diplomacy" since 1950.
Panmunjom? That former village is a monument to colossal failure.
The Pueblo? A national disgrace to this day.
The nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula? Please.
The "window for diplomacy" was opened just a crack two years ago. Kim, Kim and Kim slipped through along with some repatriated Korean War boxes of bones.
And, two summits.
But, Trump cracked "the window of diplomacy", so it's business as usual at the Editorial Board.
NEVER TRUMP #resist
1
@Albert Edmud: The South would have won the Korean War had China not intervened. How might that have been averted?
Negotiators produce agreements which Presidents sign.
Studying how Obama, Kerry and their team reached the Iran nuclear deal would have provided some insights on conducting foreign policy amidst protracted wrangling.
However Trump is not a humble person who thinks he can learn from anyone. He thinks he can upend the process and miraculously produce results. He failed spectacularly.
It was also interesting to note that Kim Jong-un had paid a separate visit to China in the days preceding the trip to Vietnam. China the only country with some leverage on North Korea has no reason in the current political climate to play nice and instruct North Korea to do the same. It probably did the opposite assuring North Korea of covert aid.
Incidentally one of South Korea's English papers had also predicted that the summit would be futile.
This is a huge embarrassment for the US.
6
@SoWhat: Trump believes he has a reality distortion field like that Steve Jobs. But he lacks the experience of writing software, where a single bit of error produces the most elusive of all bugs.
I am greatly relieved. The North overplayed their hand and President Trump refused to cave. Clearly, North Korea believed that President Trump NEEDED a deal to distract from his domestic situation. Trump held strong. North Korea will be back at the table soon with a more realistic appraisal of Trump.
3
Very strong move by Trump.
The more important deal is with China. And they now know we have a President that is willing to walk.
1
Limiting denuclearization through a "step-by-step process by which both sides agree to take corresponding actions" requires skilled diplomacy from skilled diplomats - entirely absent from the revolving-door, reality-TV Trump administration.
Escaping Cohen's testimony in Washington DC for a disorganized lovefest with a murderous dictator was an expensive and embarrassing Trump boondoggle. Hopefully the outcome will be an intensive postmortem, and not amped up hostilities from an embarrassed and unbalanced pair of "leaders".
7
Denuclearizing requires major material and political efforts on the part of North Korea. Sanctions can be removed , reimposed, and altered in a heartbeat. Given our reversal on the Iran nuclear agreement, how can we possibly expect Kim to gain a denuclearizing consensus from the internal powers that support him?
No harm in ad hoc distrust of Kim, but as proven time and again, there is harm in trusting Trump and his loyal allies. ( Maybe better put as the right wing and its loyal figurehead.)
Got to be some confidence building. We take a few of their checkers off the board, and they take a few of ours, till the board is empty.
1
Marginalizing North Korea's brutal dictatorship and miniscule economy has been a sensible approach, especially given the history of failed agreements and basic dishonesty. Saber-rattling with missiles and nuclear bombs doesn't alter the fundamental equation, North Korean military aggression would devastate South Korea, but the US military would in turn effectively tear apart their big but rudimentary armed forces. This soap opera parody of foreign policy with amateur love-in summits would be wacky pulp fiction at any other time in history.
2
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." There is goodness in the fact that Kim and Trump are meeting face to face as negociants, but in reality as enemies despite their highly publicized bromance. Objectively, the US holds the upper hand with sanctions against North Korea along with our military and economic might and global influence. Our advantages in the negotiation process are weakened by Trump's willingness to complete a deal without fully leveraging our strengths to realize our objectives. The objectives on both sides are not clearly defined aside from lifting the sanctions and denuclearizing the Korean Peninsula. The fact that the flags of both countries are aligned on the world stage is a significant win for North Korea at our expense.
Perhaps, our administration can learn from their two face to face encounters with our enemy to realize the strengths and weaknesses on both sides. Knowing what they now know and more importantly what they do not know about our enemy, perhaps there is still hope. A return to the negotiation table with a process in mind to achieve step by step goals vs. an all or nothing proposition is promising with more knowledge and engagement with our enemy.
3
@JCT
Trump plays fast and loose and will do a deal without getting the most out of it, true, but he also might change ignore or rip it up, so I suppose that's the other side. With Trump contracts, the truth, and treaties are as fluid as his ADHD mind is.
1
Who ever suggested that Korea will be denuclearized within 12 months just by enforcing UN sanctions should be fired! Its Bolton !! He made his boss look bad just like Cohen did!
Many administrations tried and failed because Kim "rather eat grass" before giving up his nukes. He doesn't want to follow Saddam and Gaddafi and irreversibly dismantle all his facilities when the US has nukes in S Korea! The failure is not really about the amount of sanctions to be negotiated, it's our nukes just south of his borders!
2
@Chin Wu Trump did not need Michael Cohen to make himself look bad. He does a wonderful job by himself.
3
America got it wrong by allowing an incompetent, illegitimate President of the United States with zero diplomatic skills to negotiate a disarmament of nuclear weapons. Who are we as as a "great peace loving nation, leaders of the free world", to put the safety of this planet in the slimy and slippery hands of Donald Trump?
HAS AMERICA GONE INSANE ?
56
@Bruce Savin Yes America has gone insane. Just look at the mass shootings, the opioid/heroin epidemic, and huge wealth inequalities that continue to go unaddressed. The United States is in massive decay mode both physically and mentally.
12
@Bruce Savin
Quick answer is yes
9
"If the American explanation is correct — that North Korea wanted all economic sanctions lifted in return only for dismantling its nuclear complex at Yongbyon" ....................... then we wonder why he went to Hanoi at all. If he and his administration had prepared properly, they would have known that was a major condition to any agreement. If Trump and his administration thought he could charm his way to an agreement, then they're all delusional and amateurish.
10
@mid-leveler Exactly. He went to Hanoi for photo ops and a chance to make a Big Announcement. No plan,no attention paid to whatever pre-work was done before this meeting. As usual, he was totally unprepared. He is too lazy and ignorant ever to accomplish anything on the world stage, but his ego will continue driving him to these futile and embarrassing failures.
1
As much as I detest Trump, I can't pile on him for this failure. At least we're finally talking to North Korea.
4
@HKGuy It sounds good, but what have we accomplished? "At least" we should have concrete and achievable ends, however small, to talk about. So they talked and had dinner, pure TV hype.
1
@Gail
It's not all hype. Kim traveled by train to Vietnam. I see that as a positive development
for a leader who has been so insularly isolated.
1
It's a relief that negotiations fell apart rather than ending in the bad deal that many of us feared. But if there was any winner it was surely Kim Jong-un whose stature has risen on the world stage. Trump has further weakened our international standing. The less that Trump engages in foreign affairs, the better for everyone.
14
Donald Trump got everything wrong in Hanoi.
Beginning with once again crawling on his knees half way round the world to an Asian train ride from Pyongyang to meet with Kim Jong Un and his nuclear weapons and rocket arsenal.
And this was clearly all the fault of " The Rat" aka Michael Cohen along with " The Failing New York Times" and " The Enemy of the People " aka any mass media outlet other than Fox News led by Sean Hannity along with the absence of Jared " Hidden Genius" Kushner.
5
@Blackmamba I trust your sarcasm is understood by all.
Trump seemed remarkably restrained in his reaction to the highly publicized summit. It was a failed summit. But instead of the usual bombastic bluster Trump simply confirmed that good dealmaking requires knowing when to withdraw from the negotiation. Almost presidential. What a nice surprise especially in the aftermath of the damning Cohen testimony.
I don't like Trump, but talk talk talk is far better than war war war.
To paraphrase Churchill.
The pre Trump idea of not talking to Kim directly was vastly inferior
to what is going on between the USA and NK.
I hate to admit that Trump is right on some things, but he is.
3
@David only if we get some results. I'll grant that as an opening, it was brilliant. But this man is lousy at follow-up, with the attention-span of a housefly unless someone disses him or he hates someone (well, that's nearly everyone outside of his immediate family).
5
@David What War, War, War? That's Trump's hype and I'm sorry people are falling for it.
@GailI
Trump is bad, and he also inherited a very bad relationship with NK.
NK sending up those provocative missiles constantly was extremely dangerous.
Apparently Trump put an end to those provocations.
I feel Obama's policy of no direct negotiations between Obama and Kim was extremely dangerous,
a great risk of nuclear war. Standing on ceremony with very negative results.
The one thing we know about "reality" television shows is that there's nothing real about them. Put a bunch of strangers with conflicting personalities into a house or island or "boardroom," and then film and edit the contents to maximize the drama. "The Apprentice" had nothing to do with how corporate America really works.
President Trump attempts the same superficial, reality television approach to everything he does. Yet unlike television, he can't just utter hollow slogans and make the results magically happen, even if his supporters believe his hollow spin and lies. Nor can he rely on amoral men like Michael Cohen, Roger Stone, and Paul Manafort to engage in unethical and illegal activities to further Mr. Trump's wishes.
We all want our President (any President) to be successful in dealing with North Korea. Negotiating with Mr. Kim directly might have been a good idea. But Mr. Trump - blinded by his own vanity, arrogance, ignorance, and preference for the "appearance" of reality over truth and facts - was as successful getting North Korea to denuclearize as he was getting Mexico to build a wall, creating a brand new health care system, bringing manufacturing jobs back to the United States, earning global respect for our country, passing a 10% middle class tax cut, etc.
Mr. Trump isn't a real President. He just plays one on television.
30
The only deal Trump was looking for was getting a Nobel Prize. C'mon. From all accounts there was virtually no serious low-level work paving the way for a breakthrough or an agreement. It was a photo op that will be better exploited by North Korea than by Trump. Oh, well. There's always bombing and invading Iran....
26
We should be thankful he didn't give everything away just to make himself look good. Let's hope he doesn't fire Pompeo and Bolton for telling him to not give away the store.
1
@JR actually, firing Bolton would make me nominate Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.
1
Yes fawning personal interactions between leaders can preclude a firm realistic evaluation of the facts on the ground. International relations are not high school social relations of crushes and gushing flattery. Dealing with a brutal dictator requires a clear headed approach well informed on the facts and the history of the country and the leader. A brutal dictator who tortured and killed one of our citizens is not to be called our friend the same as Angela Merkel really is. The president of the USA needs to represent democracy and human rights it is not the world of wrestling where the ability to body slam an opponent is to be celebrated. Championing Human Rights is showing strength while ignoring the vile activities of brutal dictators like MSB ,Putin and Kim acting like a lovesick school girl because a dictator says your pretty is a disservice to our country's national interests.
3
The bar for measuring Trump's performance as a President has been set so low that the mere fact that he did not let his personal desire to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize get in the way of his walking out on talks with North Korea is a worthy achievement for Trump.
8
@Jay Orchard: Right now, the bar is on the floor. Any lower, you'll have to start digging up the floor.
2
Are we getting tired of failing yet? The hubris that started with Cheney and his neocons re experts (that experts don't know better) has become fully rooted among conservatives and Trump's base. Trump actually thinks that his flying in, shaking Kim's hand and breaking bread was going to seal a deal that has eluded several administrations and the intelligence community? Really? An American in wonderland - God save us.
10
I don't fault Trump for not getting NK to give up their nukes, they never will. I do fault him for thinking that he is accomplishing more than his predecessors and saying we'd be in a war if he weren't elected.
6
The Times Editorial Board writes that "the failure in Hanoi demonstrates again the administration’s unwillingness or inability to prepare adequately for high-stakes meetings". I would suggest that it's not an either-or situation--rather, the adminsitration is both unwilling and unable to prepare adequately for the meetings in North Korea.
Does anyone still doubt that Trump and his minions are "fly by the seat of their pants" occupants of the White House? Their flaws are exhibited every day in both domestic and foreign situations, and things won't change in their inabilities until we elect a Democratic President.
10
The man is unbalanced by his own cult of personality. Kim needs to be savvy here; it's clear he'd never give up his nuclear arsenal, but he hoped to outlast the buffoon we elected. Yet if he provokes Trump now, Trump might well attack just to distract the rest of us from his mounting legal and Constitutional troubles.
What a world we live in.
2
@Peak Oiler
Sure Trump has emotional dysfunctions but he can still feed himself. When he says he might attack Korea or Iran it's because he would never do so. Trump is not a war-monger and does not really trust generals, he blusters and tweets and that's it.
Why wouldn't Kim give up his nukes? Because everyone says so?
His nukes cost him billions to maintain and are the cause of the sanctions that are destabilizing his regime. How exactly do nukes stop an invasion anyway?
He has a massive conventional military and ultra fortified bases that would easily stop any invasion. Plus he has another Big army in reserve in China, just like before. Any doubt China would allow an invasion up to it's doorstep?
And who would want to invade North Korea - not the US. No one wants to invade, nothing there but -50 degrees, jagged mountains, and headaches.
He'd trade his nukes in a second to normalize. Heck, he'd trade them just to be able to freely party on the beach with the jet set on Ibiza.
The problem is our president fell in love with all the crooked guys like him nationally or internationally. Like him, the opponent wants to fool our president. President wants to go solo ignoring all expert opinions - a scenario of disaster. he knows it all - dangerous attitude of our country. Mr. President does not have second layer materials to negotiate. he can only say 'I fell in love' - what next? falling in love with wrong guy does not and will not last long. Mr. Trump will find out his fate with Saudi Arabia, Russia and Israel soon.
Trump's narcissism knows no bounds. And he is surrounded by people who can not, and will not, contain him. Specifically GOP enablers. What will it take to do so?
5
Anyone who keeps up with the news knows that Trump is not to be trusted. He lies. He changes his mind constantly. That said, I can only describe his "personal approach to diplomacy" as one that only someone who knows how to manipulate him would even tolerate.
2
The worst part of this for us may be Trump's promise that a mutually agreeable agreement would be reached after a couple of days in Hanoi. It exemplifies the utter naivety and incompetence of the people in this administration, from Trump down to the lowliest of his negotiators.
From my experience as a mediator, if the North Korea's foreign minister was telling the truth (very easy to verify) and the country would have accepted only a partial lifting of sanctions, it seems there was plenty of room to continue negotiations. But our government, for internal political reasons I would guess, is unwilling to negotiate incrementally. That's the real reason why Trump walked out. He's a bully and if this is the administration's continued posture absolutely nothing will be accomplished.
5
There is no doubt that Kim has gained a lot last 7 months, including international recognition. Being greeted as a head of the state in Vietnam and Singapore was a huge success.
Trump is back at square one with the only option remaining to recognize NK as a nuclear power.
3
In economics there is a term referred to as the “Peter Principle” which refers to people who rise up the work/corporate ladder to a position of incompetence.
Our president Peter is in way over his head. And in fact it seems to run in the family. According to Cohen his oldest son doesn’t have the best judgement. Gosh
- I wonder where he inherited that from?
I would like to see Trump’s SAT scores and college grades now that Cohen said he sent threatening letters to not have those leaked out to the public. If Lincoln and Roosevelt (either or) are examples of presidential timber. I would say we have a twig in the White House.
16
I think Trump's reneging on the Iran deal pretty much assured there will NEVER be a nuclear accord with north korea. The republicans will not allow weak regimes to use nuclear weapons as leverage in any negotiations. It is reasonable to assume that he could dismantle his entire nuclear arsenal and we would come up with another reason to keep the sanctions.
Most of what Kim did was to telegraph to china and russia that we are being unreasonable and that they should not abide by the sanctions.
5
This amateur administration did no homework for this trip, and this is the logical result. I did find it interesting that the spokesperson for NK is the one who claims to have walked away.
So we're left to wonder, what does Secretary of State Pompeo do? He clearly didn't conduct the advance work for this vanity trip. It really does look like this was a feeble stab at influencing those who select Nobel winners. They are now on notice that Mr. Trump is only seeking their approval so they will give him another award he didn't really earn.
3
Summits like this should never be held unless and until lower-level officials have painstakingly worked out a deal that the heads of state can then meet to formally ratify. Clearly, that was not done. Trump seems to have believed that his imaginary good relationship with a butcher like Kim and his own self-proclaimed skills as a master negotiator would suffice to get the job done, but all that his seat-of-the-pants diplomacy produced was a predictable debacle.
Self-confidence is no substitute for competence and hard work, two things of which Trump and his senior aides seem incapable.
32
@lydgate: Arrogance and narcissism camouflaged as self-confidence, with a foundation of sheer ignorance.
6
The failure, on the contrary, is fairly clear. Trump wanted denuclearization while the sanctions stayed in place. Kim wasn't about to make a deal to rid NK of nuclear weapons unless the sanction fell. Trump was played like a two-dollar banjo and failed to secure his "win." So much failure. So little time until 2020.
7
But he always makes great deals, like on healthcare, the wall (25 B to almost nothing), infrastructure, tax lowering for middle class of 4k each, with Europe and North Korea. I am so tired of winning.
17
We do not know why it broke down and the North Korean view-point.
Trump’s position, as reported by Korea Herald, is: “Basically they wanted the sanctions lifted in their entirety, and we couldn’t do that. They were willing to denuke a large portion of the areas that we wanted, but we couldn’t give up all of the sanctions for that,”
All we can do is speculate.
Trump has repeated a number of times that this is not the end of the road but a mere hiccup.
If two people want to make peace, they will be able to figure out how to achieve that. And yes, there personal chemistry helps.
3
Anybody who has followed this process from the beginning knew this would be the result. Donald Trump has only one means of "negotiating." He threatens, blusters, lies, and cheats----and when those tactics do not work, he walks away, usually claiming victory despite all evidence. Contrary to the Time's overly-optimistic comment, there is no learning curve for Donald Trump.
25
@James This wasn't really a "Summit." A "Summit" is the declaration of success already negotiated and settled. Nothing was negotiated and nothing was settled. Trump went to N. Vietnam suffering from a fatal flaw: that Kim was telling him the truth. Kim never did. He never has.
4
Remember at the beginning of his admin, the whole country,practically, said he would now begin to look presidential. Every time he managed to string an inoffensive sentence together, that was his big learning moment.
Well, here we are in another learning curve moment for the American people, the gov't leadership on both sides and the press. Can Trump's weird approach to NK produce real results? Is he really a genius negotiator and we are just too dim to see it?
I don't think this is what Obama meant by hope and change.
1
There are numerous ways to negotiate. For President Trump to walk away is the right choice in this case, especially if, at least, initially, North Korea will not even budge on disclosing the location of all of its nuclear sites. Even if establishing a verification regime is not in the cards at this point, at least knowing the location of the sites is a good start on a path to denuclearizing the peninsula. If this is something the Koreans are not willing to do in a good faith, then walking away and continuing negotiations in the background was the right move.
2
@Andrei: One walks away from negotiations when one is at a position of strength. The loser Trump walked away because he was unprepared, outmatched politically and intellectually, and had no clue what he was doing. That in no way has anything to do with "negotiating", but has everything to do with unimaginable ignorance and lack of leadership or ability. Trump fits in with adult conversation and the world stage like a fish fits in living in a freezer.
1
Why is the NYT taking this event seriously many might ask other than perhaps the need to produce copy for its pages. There is no deal, there never was any deal. NK is no more likely to denuclearize or even seriously curtail its program than Israel, Iran, India, Pakistan, China, Russia or the US. It was never any more than a Trump publicity stunt.
65
"I will take him at his word.” says America's Psychopath-In-Chief to every world-class murderous dictator he meets, while denying almost everybody's word in America outside of one his own campaign rallies.
A broken clock will always be stunningly correct twice a day.
Whoopie.
89
February 28, 2019
Better to walk from nothing then offer confusion in executing an effective delivery in plans that can engage and satisfy the players and the region. Years in the making the offensive and defensive operations in this Asian Pacific theater and let the show carry on and continue with proper aids and forethought to achieve effective steps forward in advancing favorable agreement for the parties.
JJA, Manhattan, N.Y.
2
Another way to put it is it was a complete waste of resources and should not have been done to begin with.
4
The reality is that Trump despises rules and constraints, and as a businessman his approach was to always look for the loopholes, or failing that, simply break the law and then say "Sue me!" So of course this is how he conducts his Presidency, without regard to decorum, procedure, or tradition, figuring that he knows best. And of course he looks for other leaders with a similar mindset and lack of constraint to do business with. He possesses the mindset of a mob boss, forming alliances with other mobsters when it suits him, and becoming defiant and belligerent when they don't play by his rules.
Maybe HBO can revive The Sopranos", with Trump as a rival mob boss who has taken over Tony's territory now that Tony has passed on. Trump wouldn't even have to go out of character.
37
Crossing my fingers that we don’t get a tweet storm in a few days with Mr Trump attempting to claim some sort of victory. The Summit reveals the underlying issues with a chief executive who has never had accountability beyond his own personal interests (Mr Trump has never had to answer to a Board of Directors, or voters, or an independent body) who tries to impose a solely personal frame on international interactions. Personal diplomacy certainly has its place but only as part of a larger strategy, not as the sole driver, especially when others might suffer the consequences of rash decisions or lack of adequate preparation.
14
Perhaps if Donald had something in mind besides "TV gold," his career staffers could have worked out some agreement in advance.
Instead, he relies on his personal (questionable) charm to fix any problem that comes up. It's no way to run foreign policy.
22
@Occupy Government Trump is many things, but personal Charm is definitely not one of them.!
2
Walking away from the table was inevitable. North Korea has no intention of giving up nuclear ambitions, and they never did. No American administration can accept something so lopsided as lifting sanctions without something concrete in return.
Where Trump erred was having spoken so glibly of the whole matter, like announcing that he and Kim Jong Un "fell in love," praising himself for making the world safer, encouraging his supporters that he was worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize.
Trump recently lied that President Obama had been thisclose to starting war against North Korea, and congratulated himself for supposedly being the president who kept us out of a major war with that country. Now that the negotiations have stalled and proven fruitless, how is Trump going to spin his self-described master deal making skills?
85
@NM
"North Korea has no intention of giving up nuclear ambitions" --> how do you know this? what makes you so certain that they don't? what if a North Korean person says that the US has no intention of lifting economic sanctions?
2