That PM May invoke article 50 before negotiations were finished was unbelievably stupid. In Brussels they want a 21 month extension, and the UK can leave earlier than that if they vote in parliament or a referendum to do so. Otherwise, we are due for a series of more cliff edges. In the meantime the UK should vote in the European elections in May, as scheduled. It can be considered a referendum of sorts.
Why does anyone in the UK believe that a delay of Brexit will bring them anything different than what they have already achieved, which is quite literally; nothing? The EU is united in what it demands from the UK and the UK appears to have no ability to affect that in any way.
In the end, the only possible outcomes will be a no Brexit deal or a second referendum that puts to an end this Brexit fiasco. There does not appear to be any middle ground both inside the UK or between the UK and the EU.
5
Seems like British Tory leadership is floundering, rudderless and directionless.
In a parliamentary system, a national election is an appropriate remedy. Delay negotiations with EU with new national election.
Only way to possibly break deadlock in Parliament.
3
the brexit vote was based on false campaign rhetoric and compromised by Russian interference. it makes the greater sense to hold another referendum not that the facts about brexit are better known and hopefully Russian interference can be minimized.
4
Delay is all fine and good to buy time, but TM the PM needs to allow the Referendum again. The polls were not perfect 2 years ago. What would be so awful about a Remain vote now, aside from the embarrassment and calls to Resign? Not every female is another Margaret Thatcher. Leave was half-baked then, and not better done now.
2
Somebody explain to me why Brexit is such a problem. Here in Switzerland, there are open borders with all the EU countries, nobody gets stopped at the border, there's an exchange of goods and services, Swiss companies are doing good business with everybody, and jobs are available for anyone, whether they're Swiss in an EU country or EU citizens in Switzerland. Simple fact: EU needs Swiss business as much as vice versa, and I'm sure the same is true for Britain. It all works out.
2
I give her credit for taking endless heat from every direction including our awful POTUS. She could have left obviously. Dedicated to Britain.
6
She has dignity. She’s holding on in a world gone mad. Like the US, Europe is under siege with the economy, self entitled illegal immigrants and the effects of snow balling climate change. I give her credit for enduring and perseverance!
2
@Roscoe
Dedicated to her party and her class.
1
That’s true too
Things fall apart. The center cannot hold...
May has the impossible task of trying to unify a party with around a dozen different ideas of ‘how to brexit.’ Unfortunately for her, many of those ideas are wholly mutually exclusive to the others. It is like she is trying to herd rabid cats.
2
"...Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning... "
A famous man from Britain when it was still great said this.
With Brexit fiasco - it's is never a beginning so forget about the end or even beginning of the end.
A total shameless performance by elected representatives.
As Mrs May-be-Never has repeatedly said - a comfortable majority sits today in parliament that voted for referendum and then voted for Article 50.
But now, don't seem to want to vote for the deal.
Why have a prime minister whose very job is to lead a government that means the will of the people as represented in the parliament - if she cannot do her job.
Next thing they will say is July vote is no good because the weather is too good to be sitting in parliament.
It's simply hard to believe adults behaving this way.
1
What does the government fear about another referendum?
If they felt it would be a definite vote for Brexit, then they would have offered another vote, the problem is they know that the voters would not vote to leave given they now understand the promises made were hollow promises, the grass isn't greener doing it alone, there was plenty of foreign interference and financial support of the pro-leave political coffers and the market has sold short on the UK economy and the last thing they need is for the voters to ruin their short-selling.
Brexit is the second biggest con game next to the privatisation of the former Soviet Union in Europe and even combined, they pale to the con games happening in the US, Russia, and China to consolidate power into the hands of a few corporate oligarchs.
8
The Great UK who 'ruled the waves' and helped win the II World War, has lost its bearings and cannot decide whether to stay or leave the EU.
Will Brexit be the" final straw that broke the back of the camel?"
2
When May’s Parliament stops working, she should just do what I do when my dishwasher stops working...
Google up a repair video on YouTube...
Except that British dishwashers spin in the other direction vs our Great American dishwashers (same model Bosch, just country-customized), am sure there’s a fix out there, if not several...
Sure enough, searched on “Broken Brexit” – turns out the vote itself might be invalid...
Not making this up, 50K views...
So it’s not just me and the PM with this problematic Teutonic contraption...
Now, let’s look under “Broken Parliament”...
So many broken Parliaments out there, had to revise to “Broken British Parliament”...
9 views of somebody running out the door with what looks like the spray mechanism for the lower rack...
Probably time to order up a second spray mechanism, ma’am – though it may be your Parliament’s lower-rack itself that actually needs repair...
That didn’t even take ten minutes...
5
The European Project was a truly noble experiment to fundamentally alter the circumstances that had produced the incredible carnage of World War II. Slowly, transnational institutions were formed to create interdependence, while making clear the advantages of such. Unfortunately, the leadership missed the signal of the Balkan wars that all was not working, and so when the challenges of mass migration, terrorism, and disconnected monetary and fiscal policy struck, leaders were unprepared. Nor did they realize that the imperatives WW II had created meant little to younger generations.
Meanwhile, the Brexit vote should have been a wake-up call for the Democratic Party that there were things going on below the surface in the West that leaders had been missing. Ditto for Western Europe. However, the out of touch, generally globalist elites were so busy talking to each other that they simply missed what was happening with their own nationals. Thus Trump in America, nativist autocrats in Eastern Europe, electoral dysfunction in Southern Europe, and the advancing electoral far Right in Northern Europe.
Again the Times covers the "horse race" instead of the substance of the issue. Perhaps it is simply following the "demands" of its readers for simplicity. As likely, by covering races instead of substance, it attracts readers who prefer such and loses readers who look to a news source for journalistic leadership through the reporting of substance and genuinely informed analysis.
4
the EU won't agree to a significant extension of the deadline without a commitment from parliament to a new referendum ... which is highly unlikely.
on all sides, politicians are just bargaining for time and looking for opportunities to salvage their careers from the wreckage.
jeremy corbyn and boris johnson, head of the pack.
It is really quite shocking how many comments here show their writers to be oblivious to the fact that Ireland is in the EU and has a vote there. And that Northern Ireland (NI) is part of the UK. And that the UK undertook to support the Good Friday Agreement that ended decades of violence in NI. And that the government of Ireland did likewise. And that the peoples of NI and Ireland voted overwhelmingly in their separate referenda to accept the Good Friday Agreement. I guess in Trump-world, treaties and agreements may be discarded like inconvenient wives.
9
Mrs. May said that Britain would “only leave without a deal on March 29 if there is explicit consent in this House for that outcome.”
This is nonsense. Yet again, we have to remember that no deal is the *default* here. All they have to do is keep pushing back and prevaricating and being unable to agree amongst themselves, and a no-deal will happen willy-nilly. Even to get the extension, they will need the support of all 27 EU member countries - a fact that they keep conveniently forgetting.
6
After watching the government work, I have a notion that Parliament wanted the people to explain Brexit to them as they obviously don't understand it!
3
Delaying the vote is clearly better than no deal, but let’s face it: This discussion has gone on for > 2.5 years. Does anyone really think that more time is the answer? Jeremy Corbyn, not much better, has finally cone to his senses to offer the only real answer: another referendum.
5
There is no good option except a referendum with a vote to stay in EU and keep Western democricy united......rather than what Trump and Putin want....more chaos and division. Time Parliament show courage and do the right thing. And the same for the US.
3
So much for the "just get on with it" demanded by the public supporting all the different positions.
So much for the "certainty" demanded by commerce.
So much for leadership.
2
Every sane MP (and much of the world) has been exasperated about May running down the clock, thinking she is trying to force through her deal against the threat of No-Deal, but is that analysis still correct? Now that she accepts the possible need for an Article 50 extension, it seems as if she might be running down the clock against the pro-Brexit ERG. Surely even she can see that the chances for her deal to be accepted by Parliament rest only with the Kyle-Wilson amendment, in which the only way she gets it passed is if she agrees to a second vote, a choice between it and Remain.
2
A tactical move by May. Her main problem is the ERG (European Research Group), a group within the Tory Party (about 40-60 people). Think of them as the Freedom Caucus of the Tory Party, but with less religion. These guys are the Ultras, their whole focus is Brexit and always has been - and the cleanest, most laissez-faire, No Deal version the better (some have investment companies coincidentally...). They hate May’s deal. They also hate May - it was they who tried to depose her before New Year.
The vote on May’s deal is on the 12th. The ‘delay’ vote is on the 14th. There is also a vote on the 13th in favour of No Deal yes/no. Both the No Deal vote and the Delay votes are attempts to, essentially, blackmail the ERG into voting for her deal beforehand - or face the possibility of a delay and maybe even a EFTA deal or no Brexit at all.
3
@Mat Do they have enough votes to veto?
@Mat7
Could you please tell me:
How could ERG be blackmailed by this strategy? They WANT cliff edge. The vote for extention doesn't exclude this option. If EU complies - not likely without reliable road map - ERG will have to vote down all options them as they did before so they are going to get their cliff edge 2 months later. The No deal vote is a bluff because "no deal" is completely independent from any vote in UK except of a successful vote for a deal. If there is no deal - cliff edge when the 2 years period will have expired. UK can vote against No Deal 10 times a day 5 times a week by 90 percent majorities- no Impact If there is no deal in fact.
What's going on there? Does UK still think their Parliament is entitled to decide on all issues of all member states of EU and of EU authorities also? This is the only explanation left for this strange behavor. It isn 't so. All these "decisions" and maneuvres are completely irrelevant and have no effect - except that there will be no deal as the only measure to avoid cliff edge. Period.
per Ayn Rant (sic), you can ignore reality but not its consequences. Breaks it is the consequence.
3
Pretty obvious the majority of commenters know little or nothing about Brexit and the EU. The EU is kept afloat by three countries Britain, France and Germany. The rest of the members have no money and are constantly mooching around with their begging bowls looking for a few Euros to stave of bankruptcy. Brussels is chock full of career politicians receiving their pensions from the yearly fifty eight billion pounds Britain funds to the EU. And the career politicians led by Junker of Luxembourg make stupid indulgent laws that are okay for some small bankrupt countries but create catastrophic problems for others. And you have Germany wanting protection form Russia but at the same time making secret deals with Putin for natural gas supply that only benefits them. The EU has been full of biblical threats to Britain about leaving which if you examine their panic it's because Britain is their cash cow. The EU is decrepit and way past its sell date.
6
@Scrumper wow - that was wrong on almost all accounts. If you want to educate others on eu, maybe read about it first...
9
@Scrumper
Pretty sure you know zilch, and probably not just about the EU.
7
No and no....this is a voice of divisive and anti EU and a secure Europe that cooperates and has brought peace and prosperity. Let us remember what WW Ii did to Europe and the peace we now have despite all the voices of division and hate.
1
May delivered her "Plan A" in January. Voted down. Everyone hated it. Which shows the multiple factions she's had to contend with.
The current situation is not all May's fault. It's past time for MPs to be honest about the UK's bargaining position and the realities of a hard Brexit.
5
All of the discussions now about Brexit focus on economics. Yet a considerable part of what the "leavers" voted for was freedom. Freedom from all the regulations and restrictions imposed by Brussels which they saw as contrary to their traditions and not in their interest. Freedom to control immigration into the UK. This outcome can only be achieved by a hard Brexit. The EU won't grant any deal without a say in UK affairs, the better the deal the more the say. May's current plan gives the EU considerable say in the UK's future. A custom's union means the EU will say and the UK will do without a say.
In 1776 if the Founding Fathers priority had been economic improvement the Union Jack would still fly on our public buildings. I'm glad they thought freedom was the most important thing.
5
@Michael Feely
You are right. Only a free UK can reclaim its position as one of the Giant Powers in the world. I bet India and Pakistan will beg to once again to become Colonies of UK.
12
@Irate citizen: Let's not forget vice versa!
@Michael Feely The EU could do worse than to acknowledge that as a member, the UK bears a uniquely large burden of the dislocations of a global economy. They might do something to soften the impact.
1
The Brexit deadline will not be delayed. As this article says, all 27 EU states would have to consent to that, and there's no way that will happen. So this vote is basically Parliament flailing around like a headless chicken in the face of a deadline they are not prepared for. Britain will leave the EU on March 29 unless there is another referendum.
6
@Kal Al
Brussels has clearly said that there is unqualified consensus for an extension of Article 50. After all, 'No-Deal' might be catastrophic to the UK but it's not exactly good for the other EU nations - Ireland and Holland will be particularly badly hit.
What IS possible is that whilst there may be agreement on an Art.50 extension, it may not be what Mrs May and the hard-Brexiters can swallow. Not a couple of months for May to pointlessly kick the can around yet more but a compulsory 21 month deferment to allow for Phase 2 to get under way. The UK thus to stay in until 2021.
This 'they won't all agree' trope... Did you get that from the same authoritative sources which claimed - entirely incorrectly - that the UK couldn't unilaterally withdraw Article 50 without penalty?
1
The only way that any of this makes any modicum of sense is if May is somehow maneuvering for a second Brexit referendum. But if she's doing so, she's doing it in a particularly incompetent manner, as businesses, investments and jobs already start to shift over to the Netherlands, Germany, etc. On the other hand, if she's doing anything but maneuvering for another vote, she's being completely incompetent.
Which leaves us with the possibility that nothing she's doing makes sense beyond the non-logic of kicking the can down the road.
20
@Thunder Road
May said already that if there is a second referendum, she will no longer be the Prime Minister.
This is an outcome everyone in Parliament should support.
10
@Thunder Road, To the contrary, I think May is pandering to Tory hardliners and manuevering for a no-deal Brexit. She must know that the EU cannot accept any deal that threatens the EU relationship with Northern Ireland. May is incompetent but she is also very ambitious.
Without a second referendum, I fear that Britain is headed for the cliff.
The real problem with Brexit is that none of Britain's leaders wants to be the first to state the obvious - the whole darn thing was a bloody mistake. The referendum should never have been held. The voters did not know enough about the issues and costs. Indeed, for the most part they weren't even willing to put in the effort to find out what those issues and costs were. And that's okay in a representative democracy, because it's the job of the voters' representatives to know all that stuff, vote on it and explain their votes to the voters.
But Britain's political class did not do this. They kicked the Brexit can down the road via a referendum and then demagogued ad infinitum after the results came in. The brave thing to do now would for Britain's leaders to admit that the referendum was stupid, overturn the results, and keep Britain in the EU. But that would take a level of guts and integrity that just doesn't seem to exist anymore in any of the West's democracies, let alone the one in Britain.
92
@mather
That is exactly right. The people who voted for this were fed a pack of lies by largely the same group of people who brought you Donald Trump.
24
@mather
I think you underestimate the achievement of the British political class in sheer incompetence plus venality. They are at top level.
May is in a hard place. She has the impossible job of satisfying the small but vehement Brexit faction and the rest of her party, while not creating a disaster. She chooses to handle this in the worst way, by actually satisfying the Brexiteers instead of working with the opposition to attain a decent solution (probably a new referendum), meanwhile lying about supposed negotiations that are only her begging the EU to change their position on aspects that the EU cannot change, such as the Irish backstop.
An outstanding prime minister would have gone for a second referendum with intensive popular education about the likely major losses for Britain from Brexit. But there is no one like that.
15
@mather
A bloody mistake, yes. It was Cameron's idiotic decision to hold a referendum in the first place that put Britain in the hard exit mess it's in today. And only for short term political gain. He didn't have the courage to tell his people that remaining in the EU was by far the best path forward. He cowered behind a referendum and the result is the largest crisis faced by Great Britain since 1940. But unless I am mistaken, it was my understanding that the results of the referendum were technically non-binding. So perhaps it may not be necessary to 'overturn the results.' Just call the result null and void in the face of all the financial fallout.
5
Even if they delay by 3 months the 3/29 deadline, what is the chance that the UK parliament will agree on a revised plan? zilch
3
For those with HBO and relatively little insight as to the complications of Brexit as well as the misinformation that resulted in a vote for Brexit, I strongly suggest checking out John Oliver's Last Week Tonight from Sunday, February 17th.
He relates, with a great bit of humor I might add, some little discussed sensibilities regarding Ireland and the potential issues that might arise by again separating North and South.
Then my favorite is the guy whose business is in flowers and how his operations will be simply crushed when imports of fresh flowers from Europe are stuck for days getting into the UK from the EU. He sadly notes that this will put him and his employees out of business. Naturally, the bloat voted for Brexit without knowing or considering the ramifications.
31
@It is time! Reminds me of those who voted for Trump “without knowing or considering the ramifications”.
8
Delay today will be followed by rejection of Brexit by the Brits, themselves, tomorrow. Brexit was a mistake, as a majority of young Brits realize today. There is no way to return to the past. Britain's success in the world economy is linked to the E.U. Those who voted for Brexit thought they would be returning to a pre-E.U. Europe. They may look backward but they will never return to the past.
20
The British people made a particularly stupid choice with Brexit. Maybe there are some things that are too important and complicated to submit to a mass of uneducated voters. There is no other way to put it. Let's hope they will come around and undo that choice. However, the times seem to be favoring stupid people being in charge. So hope is thin.
26
@Blue Zone
I don't think that 'stupid' is quite the correct word. Slightly more than 1/2 the UK voters were persuaded, untruthfully, that Brexit was the antidote to very real and obvious detriments in their lives. Whether or not they should have been 'clever' enough to spot this and correct their gullibility is moot - after all, who did you guys elect to be #45?
2
@Blue Zone: Who are the British people? The Northern Irish voted Remain.
@nolongeradoc fair enough on our vote but remember more voted against Trump....and the UK vote was with lies about a great outcome for average citizens. We need votes based on truth in both nations not Trump lies nor Tory right wing isolationists lies and spreading racism.
1
June 14, 2087 - New York Times: "Key Brexit vote next week"
55
Brits. They don't love us anymore, and certainly, don't want to live with us. But if they decide to jump off the top of a high building, we’re supposed to go out on the ledge and coax them out of it. Jeez. Talk about being shackled to the corpse of a bad marriage. I mean: they did serve us with the divorce papers. And now? After all the terrible things they said. Now, they want to move right back in. Three years later. Like nothing happened.
I don't know Honey. I kinda got used to the idea of you not being around. O sure, I still love you. I just think it's better if you do what you said you wanted to do. You're free. So, go express yourself. No. Of course, you're not too old. That's right. Have another little drinky-poops, and I'll call the Uber.
14
Gosh, if ever there was watching a train wreck in slow motion, this is it.
25
@macduff15
I give it second place behind the destruction of American democracy.
5
Interesting angle is that the E.U. might not want them back now that they have said they are willing to break up with them. Its a bit like a bf/gf breaking up with you then taking you back... only suckers are surprised when it happens again.
5
"Derail" = derail.
It's all show. Britain's ruling class was never going to let the British people escape Big Brussel's ever tightening grasp.
2
Britain's ruling class is not necessarily its political class. A lot of powerful Brits don't like the EU human rights and tax avoidance laws. These people won't be hurt by a hard exit.
3
@God Great Britain is still a democracy. The British people will decide, despite what talking heads and commenters in the NYT opine.
1
@God: Actually the British Public School Ruling Class was never going to let the EU Ruling Class replace them. Merry Old England could easily be ruled by an "Absent Landlord" English Upper Crust from their European vacation homes. God save the Queen, and by extension, ourselves!
May is just plain worthless. She should propose to Parliament a second referendum.
5
I'm waiting with baited breath to see the punchline to this sketch.
#laughingstocks
#BritishComedyGold
#MontyPythonsFlyingCircus
3
So, is this May's endgame? Delay Brexit, which gives Labour time to vote on a second referendum?
2
My understanding is the time it would take to put together a second vote means it would come after the exit deadline. There needs to be hard leadership to take the EU offer of saying 'oops, never mind'. It barely passed, and was a foolish thing to open to a vote in the first place (even a majority of those who voted yes admit they didn't' understand it, which makes sense...no one understands it, clearly). Sadly, strong leadership for a common good is lacking these days at the upper echelons of many of our countries.
P.S. John Oliver has been doing good, albeit entertain-y, coverage of Brexit.
4
@Monica Bee
"My understanding is the time it would take to put together a second vote means it would come after the exit deadline."
That's because your understanding comes from the people who want you to believe that Brexit is a done deal.
It, like pretty much everything any Brexiter says, is entirely false. Not only have the EU indicated their willingness to postpone the UK's departure to allow another vote, you can bet you're last cent they'd fall over themselves to make that happen.
1
Theresa May was a retainer during the referendum campaign.
I would not rule out the possibility that she and Corbyn (who just came out for a second referendum) are working together behind the scenes to carefully prepare the public for a second referendum
4
@Luciano
What kind of absurd nonsense is that? Theresa May wasn't part of the Remain campaign.
I guess you reckon Americans might be more trusting then their UK counterparts when it comes to believing complete fabrications.
Any more eye popping falsehoods? If the UK stays, we have to adopt the Euro? Stuff like that?
2
The most famous words in history are “It will never happen”.
Great Britain will never leave the E.U.
The E.U. will never dominate leave negotiations.
Neither the Tory or Labor parties will put party over the welfare of the people.
Industry will never stop investing in Great Britain.
Finance will never leave The City.
The NHS will never have a crippling shortage of personnel.
Scotland and Northern Ireland will never leave the Union.
The Public School elite will never again Lord over democracy.
England will not experience decades of decline.
The older generations will never die off.
England will never reapply for E.U. Membership.
4
Britain joined the EEC in 1973. After 46 years, this P.M. and her party decide they got a raw deal. Give me a break! Theresa May must have been speaking to Trump!
12
Since the Brexit vote, it's seemed to me that the UK didn't vote to leave the EU, but rather Little Englanders voted to break up the UK. I can't understand how Northern Ireland stays in the UK after a border is reestablished, and as much as May likes to gibe Ian Blackford about the 2014 independence vote, it seems that of those 55% of Scots who voted to stay in the UK in 2014, after Brexit chaos, and a weakened UK economy, and reemerging trouble in Northern Ireland, 6% of them would change their minds. It seems like Scotland would be better off forming its own 'Norway-plus" agreement with Europe, rather than being hitched to someone else's agreement.
7
Democracy works best if the citizens are educated.
The decision to leave was not an informed choice. As a consequence, we have had a mess for 2 years and no closer to a solution.
I respect those that say we should carry out the wishes of the electorate.
But, now we are all more aware of the reality of a Brexit, its time for another "better informed" referendum.
28
The EU must step in and call a halt to this mess and impose its own conditions. Regardless of PM or party in charge, no agreement on this issue will ever secure the necessary votes to pass in Parliament. Since a s second vote by the public seems out of the question, EU adults need to step in. May, as a babysitter, can't keep the kids satisfied.
2
@Tom Q
Really!
The EU doesn't have the power to 'step in'. The UK is a sovereign country, it is not beholden to anyone else in constitutional matters - whatever Leavers would have you believe.
Whatever next. The EU to step in and remove Mr Trump?
1
What is Theresa May’s end game? Surely she is intelligent enough to understand the catastrophe that an uncontrolled Brexit would mean.
And yet all we can get from her, only a few days before disaster, is a begrudging acknowledgment of the right of Parliament to vote to delay Brexit doomsday.
Since she has been so monumentally incompetent at playing way above her league, with the result that NOTHING has been achieved, prepared or planned after two years of internal political fighting, one would expect a modicum of humility and willingness to compromise, to find a way to avoid this unmitigated disaster.
Maybe she really is beholden to the interests of the small financial cabal who have engineered Brexit for the sole purpose of turning Britain into an unregulated, rogue-state tax-haven in which they could pursue unlimited wealth with no rules. What have these people got on her, or more precisely on her investment banker husband?
43
@Andy
May was remain before the referendum and I speculate her husband prefers to remain like most bankers.
Her ostensible duty is to carry out Brexit but I susoect she is playing brinksmanship to force another course away from hard brexit or even to another referendum.
12
@Andy
I personally am torn between whether she is doing all of this because “Brexit means Brexit” (i.e., people voted for this — not me — and I am just carrying out their wishes), or if she has a hidden agenda. The fact that she has remained so absurdly stubborn for *years* makes one want to believe that there is more to the story.
2
@Andy I think it's simpler than that.
Mrs. May has said she admires Margaret Thatcher.
She wants to be just like her.
Unfortunately Mrs. May lacks Thatcher's political
acumen, and Thatcher's years of an iron grip on
all factions of her party.
Right about now Maggie is spinning in her crypt.
1
Didn’t the people already vote to leave the EU? I guess elections don’t matter anymore.
2
Putin and other Robber Barons pulled the same stunt with Brexit as they did for The Con Don, Alejandra
It's all part of the Internaional Mafia 0.01% Robber Baron/Radical religion Good Old Boys cabal hostile "take over the world" attempt.
40
@Alejandra: The referendum was advisory, not binding. And the margin of victory for the Leave cabal was small. No civilized country makes monumental decisions, including the ripping up of international agreements like the Good Friday Belfast Agreement, on such a small margin.
3
Brexit is Brexit, give Nigel the crown.
2
Bwrecksit would only benefit Putin (who wants to weaken the EU) and a bunch of disaster capitalists who want to plunder the wreckage and prompt a race to the bottom on pay, working conditions and product safety. It would do great harm to the UK and likely touch off a recession worldwide.
37
Come on, get on with it. The U.K. asked for a divorce, it got it. The reality is that the U.K. was not in a good negotiating position to start with.
All the other countries envy the successful businesses that the UK has, especially banking, so they will do what they can to steal the crown jewels.
Even if a Brexit never occurs, ie. a revote and the "stay" wins, some businesses after weighing their options will not come back or stay. The automobile business is a case in point. The economies of scale needed are just not there. Honda is a good case in point.
ref: https://www.ft.com/content/ec3a094a-33a3-11e9-bb0c-42459962a812
@Peter The UK Brexit Plan asked for, actually demanded, that their exit be an exit from all responsibilities but none of the benefits of the EU.
5
@Peter I have always thought that Britain wrongly saw itself in the upper position regarding Brexit negotiations. The reality of the situation is that the EU doesn't really have to budge much, and it wisely stood together as a bloc when the UK tried to divide and conquer among member nations.
6
@Practicalities
Yes I would agree with you.
I also think that Britain was under the misconception that London would remain the financial hub without realizing that much of the regulations/trading/clearing/deal making between two EU countries has to occur within the EU.
Ms. May should just give it up and allow a new vote.
My guess is that a majority of U.K. citizens now see the folly of voting to leave and will vote to stay.
A unified Europe to confront Putin can prevent WW3. It is imperative they do so.
46
I wonder how many pro-Brexit voters are aware of how many foreign-born staff are in the NHS and the associated care industries? To say nothing of construction, transportation and allied trades. I've not seen the exact numbers but they appear to be substantial enough to have pushed a lot pro-Brexit voters' buttons. Could this be the end of NHS, a long-desired Conservative goal? And was that the plan all along?
9
Has anyone explained how Parliament will come together and agree on a deal? From what I can see, there are 3 main groups: a) those that want a hard Brexit - no shared customs border, b) those that want to cancel Brexit altogether, and c) those that want a Brexit deal. For group C, it doesn't seem like there is any consensus on what constitutes an acceptable deal.
So basically, its going to go nowhere....unless someone can explain otherwise? I admit I have not read every article on this topic, just enough to be confused.
3
The Brexiteers seem to want to hang on to May so they can continue their draconian austerity on the UK. Perhaps quitting the EU is another way of saying the UK cannot afford to take care of its people.
11
She needs to apologize and beg to just forget the whole affair.
5
@R. Koreman
she has nothing to apologize for...she is merely the cleanup person for the previous p.m. who got them into this mess.
6
What everybody knows but won't say: the Leader is unpopular and incompetent, but her doomed Party hangs on anyway, delaying the inevitable.
9
@Bald Eagle replace her with him and you are talking about US!
6
At this moment (though events change astonishingly quickly among the darkening shadows of the British Empire), it looks as though the most likely outcome is either:
(a) Brexit will be delayed until sometime between this May and 2022; or,
(b) the U.K will crash-out of the EU on March 29 and test the viability of an industrial autarky. (That strategy not worked out so well for North Korea, but who knows what the Brits can do when they put their minds to it?)
Given the mercurial mentality of modern British minds, I (being a fortunate foreign to that benighted queendom) would not make any plans to visit or even fly through the U.K., much less do business there, until Brexit somehow has been accomplished or abandoned.
It is, though, a very amusing folly to watch at a distance. Barbara Tuchman must be looking down from heaven and writing another chapter for her March of Folly.
4
'Ello, Ministry of Silly Walks calling. . .
7
I'm really looking forward to visiting the UK once the pound has totally tanked. Maybe I'll get a nice castle on-the-cheap.
Thank you, fearful, hateful, irrational Brexiters!
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At this point, perhaps the best lesson would be gotten by the UK leaving the EU with no deal. If the UK thrives, then it proves a smaller but more agile entity is better than the EU. If the UK fumbles, then it can reapply to join the EU and this would be a vindication that the European project is sound.
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Can you really see the UK re-apply? That would be a trauma to the country's ruling castes probably bringing back the memories of when, in the 70s, they had to crawl hat in hand before the IMF to ask for a loan....
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@marielaveau
"in the 70s, they had to crawl"
Which indicates they know how to crawl ...
1
Delay? What can Parliament possibly conceive will happen at any future date other than more indecision and equivocation?
As both major parties see their respective memberships defect to other benches, the only real response is to have another referendum on the matter where the electorate may now be better informed of what an impractical and ill-informed decision BREXIT was to begin with. In this case, there is no logical reason to "stay calm and carry on" when "carrying-on" means doubling down on poorly conceived policy.
Regrettably, since Cameron sent the question to the voters, the only credible path to reconsideration is another referendum, as messy a proposition as that may be. Any alternate pretense that a Parliamentary delay will lead to some negotiated epiphany amounts to nothing more than a good old-fashioned British game of hoodman blind.
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This will be Britain's Mid-Terms. A cooler head, clearer eyed look at the idea of throwing a brick with no idea where it will land. People showing up to vote on a do over now that everybody can see the cataclysm that awaits. After Britain's Mid Terms, hopefully a stabler ally.
1
The referendum was a very bad idea. May's statement, Brexit means Brexit was the statement of a limited person, obstinate, and not that of a politician which is something required in this circumstance. It should have been Brexit means Brexit if it is a deal that the English, upon reflection, want. Otherwise it would be the deal she could get vs stay in the EU.
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The UK is so deep into the soup only a dog could find the bone in the broth. The City of London and the trillions of dollars that fly by are going down the drain quicker that Jack Rabbit. The whirlwind of confusion and disagreement actually demands a new vote but the Parliamentary machinery was designed for town management but not global affaires. Nothing can save the UK from the worst possible outcome and massive loss in GDP.
5
The voters should demand more. The final say on Brexit should go directly to the voters. Let them decide: soft Brexit; hard Brexit; or no Brexit!
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@Bill B, I can tell you how the vote would go: hard Brexit 46 pct; soft Brexit 2 pct; no Brexit 52 pct.
@Bill B: So, Bill, how would you frame the question of Northern Ireland, the border with another EU country (Ireland), the Good Friday Agreement, bombings, shootings...?
@Des Johnson, No Brexit, or soft Brexit with backstop (current EU terms). Leavers, by and large, want a no-deal Brexit. This will likely end in a renewed conflict with Northern Ireland.
duh !
there's no way they can go through with this. Of course they can extend it forever. If i were a citizen there i would wonder just what my politicians really do, that they can waste so much time and energy on such folly.
Doesn't the country have real problems?
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The sheer incompetence of Mrs May is exceeded only by Trump's. If she really believed she had the EU over a barrel because of what the member states might lose in exports, she is worse than delusional. If she had any courage at all, she would rescind the letter invoking Article 50 and tell Rees-Moog and his mates to either accept it or get out and join UKIP, which would end their political careers. Given that parliament is sovereign in the UK, it can override the results of the referendum, and since it's a choice between the EU or penury, parliament has the duty to override it. Just like, if our Electoral College had had any spine, it would have refused to give the presidency to Trump.
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@Danny
Wow - I did not know Parliament could do that, but I could still understand a lot of people viewing that as anti democracy. A more than reasonsable compromise would be at least to suggest a new referendum. I fail to see how she could not justify that given how things have “progressed” the past 2.5 years.
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@Danny
Our Electoral College is no longer allowed to have any spine. The few vertebrae that showed themselves in 2016 were immediately replaced by robotical electors by their political parties. This is not a metaphor; it's exactly what happened.
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@blondiegoodlooks Never mind what people would be viewing this, bear in mind that a referendum is not binding in the first place. Any other (conservative) argument is only an excuse for stopping to think.
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The vote should include a never option. The current of history is toward mergers, not divisions and walls.
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Question for European readers: at what point will EU negotiators have had enough? It's clear to just about anyone that there is nothing but political paralysis coming from the UK. It looks from here that the British are unable to map a path forward, and I would imagine that delaying Britain's exit will simply lead to more of the same.
So what's the end game for Europeans? Do they patiently wait it out, perhaps with the belief that the EU is stronger with the UK in it, so why not extend this, even indefinitely? Or at some point will Europeans simply want to get on with it?
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@Vin
That point was reached long ago.
In theory all we had to do was wait 2 years from the date the UK invoked the treaty to arrive at a final agreement, or not, but at least an end to the farce.
Unfortunately the EU treaty is not as straightforward as that, and the European Court of Justice has ruled that the UK can revoke Article 50 without anyone else's permission. In a practical sense, that means the EU is stuck with the UK's decision to go or stay.
It doesn't mean it has to negotiate, but then the UK can block whatever it wants.
Personally the only healthy solution is for the UK to leave, and frankly I don't care if it's with or without a deal.
8
@Vin
There is no "end game" particularly nor for EU Europeans as the Britons try to make believe.
Art 50 (3) is very simple and clear:
" The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2...."
This means in short:
"29th of March - no "withdrawal agreement, no entension - Brexit done - cliff edge" That´s all.
Nothing to negotiate, no endless talks, no useless absurd debates. no resolutions and decisions - just a clock ticking down automatically.
If UK wants a better result they have to accept a treaty. Any treaty but a treaty accepted by EU. No way to get around.
There is a ready-to-sign-draft accpted by EU but refused by Parliament. As long as UK is internally paralyzed - as they are for month - they will be unable to sign anything or even to apply for entension. So there will be no other option but cliff edge - no matter what any politicians are saying or press is writing about it (Sad, sad chapter...)
Those who want the hardest Brexit - the ERG for instance - can let the clock tick down and have to obstruct all and everything until then. They have adopted this strategy perfectly. (The best organized British player in this game.) All others in UK fell for it.
Indeed EU is not interested of (endless) delay because all relevant players agree to your correct assumption that this will simply lead to more of the same.
2
If I'm reading the polls correctly, it looks like support for No Deal Brexit is rising among pro-Brexit UK citizens. (With Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage pumping for No Deal Brexit).
Remainers seem more resolved to simply remain, with no compromised semi-Brexit.
Both major parties are split, with Brexit and Remain factions. (I haven't seen polling on pro-brexit Labour voters recently. Anyone have some to share?).
May is out of running room now and the whole thing has become a farce.
19
Delaying will not make it possible to build a submarine out of cheese, but it might help Parliament begin to understand that it is impossible to build a submarine out of cheese.
Best case scenario, delay might eventually result in a change in plans, i.e. no building submarines out of cheese (no Brexit).
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The EU should reject the UK's extension request -- Dutch and French companies are poised to pick up the slack when international corporations leave London en masse, and the EU will be able to strike favorable trade deals with the UK's former trading partners. The UK made its bed; now it's time to sleep in it.
28
There will be no leaving the UK “en masse” as Britain itself is one of the top 3 or 4 markets in the world for American and other international firms (after China and Japan). It will be very expensive and inefficient for some companies however, as they will need to duplicate bureaucracy in order to address requirements in the other big markets, Germany and France, after Brexit; no one is exchanging London for Bratislava.
1
@Mike Melnick
It's already happening, American and international firms are moving their Euro opertations to Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam, Zurich, Luxemburg, etc.
The natural competitive advantage of London as a financial platform won't be erased, but the 20% of euro business London has gotten very comfortable with WILL move to the continent.
I don't know what kind of business you're in but I'd find it very uncomfortable to lose 20% of my paycheck.
17
@Clark-Other sources of pain:
Where Brexit Hurts; Nurses and Doctors Leaving London
In the year following the referendum, almost 10,000 quit the N.H.S. The number of nurses from other European Union countries registering to practice in Britain has dropped by almost 90 percent.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/21/world/europe/nhs-brexit-eu-migrants.html
5
All of this extension nonsense has already been decided.
There will be no deadline set on an extension on remaining in the customs union (with all the rules that go with it including free movement of citizens) without a binding agreement on the Irish backstop.
The UK has already refused an open ended commitment by a margin of 230 votes in parliament, so forget that option.
Any "extension" with a deadline will be a replay of the brinksmanship already played out. So the EU will not accept accept a deadline.
The only real option for an extension if the UK revokes Article 50. The EU Court of Justice ruled they can do just that unilaterally, without asking permission from any other EU member. Since they can invoke Article 50 at any subsequent time, this amounts to an extension on UK's terms only, in order to provide further time to negotiate terms with the EU.
I can see the other EU members getting very bored with UK brinksmanship. It already has. But apparently the EU is stuck with the UK until they decide to leave.
I'm crossing my fingers and hoping May gets what she wants, and the UK gets out of the EU one way or the other.
3
What would a delay accomplish that two years of negotiating haven't? You can't stay in the Customs Union without giving up the ability to negotiate separate trades deals; you can't leave the Customs Union without setting up a boarder between the EU and the UK in Northern Ireland and at all ports of entry.
There is no third way. It is time to make a choice. Delay can't change the laws of physics.
39
"A postponement of the Brexit date would also require the consent of all 27 other European Union governments."
This is simply untrue.
The European Court of Justice ruled in December, 2018 that the UK can UNILATERALLY rescind its invocation of Article 50 as long as a democratic process is followed to achieve the result, such as a vote in parliament or another referendum.
Since nothing prevents the UK from subsequently invoking Article 50 at any future time, this ruling amounts to postponement of Brexit by the UK WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF ANY OTHER EU MEMBER.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-court-case-ecj-ruling-article-50-theresa-may-deal-uk-european-court-justice-latest-a8675541.html
1
Yes UK can unilaterally extend Andy... and indeed revoke also, an ECJ Ruling from we Scots defined that. However the E27 do still need to ratify the extension, like you I’m sure that’s largely a paper exercise.
@Alan Harvey
A revocation is not an agreement, laws, nor treaty and hence does not require "ratification".
According to the ECJ ruling revocation of Article 50 is entirely the purvue of UK parliament that invoked it, and NOONE else. So it's not even a paper exercise, EU members have to simply accept the decision.
1
@Alan Harvey
Not quite. UK can unilaterily revoke but NOT extend.
Art. 50 section 3 is crystal clear on this issue:
"The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2 (2 years period, ws), unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A12012M050
This is to apply to UK and is compulsory no matter who ever might be said or decided what ever in UK. The only thing left to decide is to apply for an extention at EU. Nothing more.
- The right of decision on an extension request falls to all 27 member states and EU parliament. If only one of them says "no" - Spain because of the Gibraltar issue or Ireland because of the not yet resolved NI border issue for example - the extension case will be as cold as it could be. No paper exercise, no false hopes.
- If UK revokes within the 2 years period unilaterally in good faith - not as a procedural trick, then it would be ineffective as the EU Court has already stated - it´s original membership continues as if nothing happened.
- If UK wants to leave then they have to trigger Art 50 again to start a completely new 2 years period from "0" on.
This is mandatory law UK has accepted by signing the Lisboa treaty so there is no getting around.
6
What? Everything was going so smoothly.
68
Smoothly is one of the least used adjectives for Brexit, unless... no sorry no unless!! It is one of the least used!
So Theresa May doesn't want to see Article 50 extended? I thinks she'll find that she has lost any ability to call the shots.
5
Another story about Brexit? I can’t say I will ever understand British politics...or care.
2
@Greg "I can’t say I will ever understand British politics...or care."
And yet, here you are.
1
This is what happens when a terrible idea is adopted, in this case Brexit itself, and its perpetrators aren’t willing to admit they were wrong.
Anyone who works in a large company has seen that movie time and time again. It rarely ends well.
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@David-Yep. Perpetrators in need jail time.
"Reporter Shows The Links Between The Men Behind Brexit And The Trump Campaign"
Carole Cadwalladr's investigation reported in The Observer and The Guardian provides a chilling look into Arron Banks, Robert Mercer, and Cambridge Analytica's roles in supporting Brexit financed by Russian connections and the Brexit campaigns ties and similarities to the Trump campaign.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/nov/27/carole-cadwalladr-wins-foreign-press-award-for-trump-and-brexit-work
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/19/630443485/reporter-shows-the-links-between-the-men-behind-brexit-and-the-trump-campaign
9
WHY /// should the EU be interested.... a delay ? having your cake and eating it at the same time ??
1
Primarily because it is not what some Press reports would say a punitive exercise by EU, but is a negotiation.
@henry Gottleib: It will harm the EU to lose (what is currently) the world's 5th largest economy. So they will do whatever they can to prevent Brexit (especially an unplanned Brexit). However, delays can't be indefinite as companies and individuals need to be able to make plans based on the long term status of the UK's membership. An extended delay would hurt the UK most. There must also be administrative, legal, political and budgetary considerations for the EU. There is an election in May and it seems that a delay (e.g. for the purpose of holding a second referendum) would necessitate the EU election occurring before it is known whether or not the UK will remain part of the EU.
8
@Phillip Goodwin
"So they will do whatever they can to prevent Brexit (especially an unplanned Brexit)"
That negotiating strategy has gotten the UK where it now finds itself, ie on the cliff's edge.
It's the UK's back against the wall, not the EU, so the only negotiating strategy the UK can follow now is revocation of Article 50. The government that attempts that will fall.
So it's "échec et mat" for May's government.
4
What’s the deal? How come there wasn’t a plan in place to leave? This whole Brexit thing is a fraud and the everyday person in the UK and UK residents living in the EU will pay the price. Utterly ridiculous. And in the future any country working with the UK will have the upper hand knowing how weak and dysfunctional the UK government is. Thanks, Leavers.
52
@Yolanda Perez-Fraud it is: "…loans to the pro-Brexit campaign came from outside Britain — making them illegal — from a company of which Mr. (Arron) Banks is the majority shareholder….The commission said it suspects that Mr. Banks was “not the true source” of a total of eight million pounds in loans made to Better for the Country, an organization that ran the “Leave.EU” campaign...." Through Cambridge Analytica. Sigh.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/world/europe/brexit-arron-banks.html
4
@Ann-While Mr. Banks was spending more than eight million British pounds to promote a break with the European Union — an outcome the Russians eagerly hoped for — his contacts at the Russian Embassy in London were opening the door to at least three potentially lucrative investment opportunities in Russian-owned gold or diamond mines….“From what we’ve seen, the parallels between the Russian intervention in Brexit and the Russian intervention in the Trump campaign appear to be extraordinary,” said Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.
Russians Offered Business Deals to Brexit’s Biggest Backer https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/world/europe/russia-britain-brexit-arron-banks.html
8
Mrs. May has been digging around in her purse for over two years trying to find her Brexit lipstick. Get rid of her already and free the Brits.
16
@Pilot
Lipstick? Did you really mean to compare the replacement of literally hundred of commercial agreements and treaties with a cosmetic? And do you actually think one person rather than the majority of the voters who supported Brexit are responsible for this situation?
6
The Guardian reported the other day that the EU has no interest in sa short extension and another round of 11th hout brinkmanship. The EU is looking at a 21 month extension during which time both sides would actually try to negotiate final terms. This deal is basically like a divorce with the property issues and custody set aside to be decided later.
11
Theresa May ‘s bluff has been called. She put all her political calculations on the bet that her deal would be better than no deal and force parliament to accept it out of fear of dropping out of the EU on March 29th.
Her deal is finally dead and will be declared so on March 12th. The door now is open to let reason enter the Brexit debate. The most likely scenario:
Defeat of her deal.
Extension of the leave date.
Snap elections.
A new government will reassess the options.
The second referendum will emerge as the best path forward.
But no matter what happens,the U.K. will be consumed for the next decade about the Brexit. You can’t get the toothpaste back into the tube. The damage is done.
97