The party of, by, and for illegal immigration will have none of it (walls, that is). Technology is a better method to identify, locate, and rescue the hundreds of thousands that will pad their future voter rolls in their 'sanctuaries'.
El Paso Fire Department estimated Trump's crowd size at 6500 and O'Rourke's at 15,500
Trump has about 30,000 people here. Beto....300. Good Bye Beto.
1
The possible Democratic Presidential candidate should first shed any reluctance to call out POTUS for what he is - a racist, a liar and a disgrace. Laying down facts do not matter to this POTUS; he is an ignoramus and illiterate. In stead this Democratic contender and everyone else aspiring to lead USA should attack POTUS and his followers, their values and expose them for what they are. Democracy and people's will in USA is too docile, passive and just reactive. For a POTUS and followers who care two hoots about democracy, freedom and most importantly equality, they will be relentless as they know their end is near.
1
Trump thoroughly researches his topics before speaking. Sometimes he does the research himself. The below may make you laugh.
https://mugwumps.store/collections/frontpage-collection/products/he-once-stowed-away-on-the-space-shuttle-so-that-when-he-addressed-nasa-he-would-be-speaking-from-experience-who-is-he
1
Trump is such a hypocrite.
He has knowingly hired scores of undocumented immigrants at many of his properties.
Management at these properties is currently in the process of firing these workers, some of whom have worked for Trump for decades.
6
Some questions it would be great to hear Mr. Trump answer.
If Congress approved your wall tomorrow, who'd get the construction contract? How long would the feasibility study take? What about eminent domain? How would you keep a thousand-mile construction zone safe from whatever you're frightening us with?
And how does walling off the Rio Grande improve U.S. water security?
1
Biden / O'Rourke 2020
3
Not a good time to miss the Rachel Maddow show.
2
Beto O'Rourke is the Democratic front-runner after today.
1
Donald's crowd will be the biggest in history. Just ask him.
ogn,
He probably hired someone to digitally manipulate the crowd sizes to his benefit.
Full disclosure: Anti-Trump Republican here....who also voted for Ted Cruz.
If Beto does well at this rally, I think he will run for President and he will immediately be a leading candidate.
As a Texan, I observed he has charisma....and he is a 'moderate' liberal (but still too liberal for Texas).
He may be the Democrats best hope
Or am I missing something here?
If does well at the rally? What would that mean?
2
I already know what Trump will say tonight.
I want to hear what O'Rourke says. I hope he doesn't have to share the screen with Trump.
1
Australia should be building a wall to stop American drug smugglers ... in view of the record shipment destined for Australia and seized the other day in your country.
1
Give trump the 5 billion in return for ten years of his income tax returns. The New Fair Deal.
4
I call Trump's rally in El paso chutzpah or ignorance especially since he has been insulting the citizens of El Paso and branding their city as violent . I predict he will attract the misfits ; as the citizens of El Paso have too much class and comity to be taken in by this huckster of fear . You go Beto ; show him what El Pasoans are like .
5
Trump and O’Rourke Face Off in El Paso Over Wall
Your research on the border wall is incomplete and flawed. The following is from an FBI video which is also on my facebook page. Do you, as a reporter, know more than the FBI? If most of the Southern border is contained, then illegals will go to a place that is not sufficiently guarded. Although El Paso records may not indicate that they have been personally affected yet does not mean that the rest of the country has not been. Who would you chose to live or die - your neighbor? Many of the issues appear to stem from Juarez - located just across the border from El Paso.
Bias has no basis in our "Freedom of Press." This story is also on MSN - twice it has been posted. Where else did you send this to? San Diego?
See youtube FBI video "Our Role on the Southwest Border"
1
Beto has basically become an afterthought in the 2020 election.
If he is going to make his move, tonight is the time to do it. It has fallen right into his lap.
1
The gall of Trump even after knowing, that we know, his info was false will go to El Paso anyway to fear-monger and attempt to divide the people of that peaceful city. From the podium will he tell these citizens to their face he knows their city better than they? He's a twisted sick man. His racist nationalist agenda of division, chaos, and fear continues. He will never change his stripes.
2
Mr. Trump does not "relish combat." He is a five time draft dodger and usses surrogates to fight his battles for him. When he loses as he most frequently does, he blames the surrogate. One can hope that the Texas confrontation will be Trump's swan song on this issue.
5
As if O’Rourke is Trump’s equal. He needs to do a bit more traveling around the country to find himself. He might also try to get elected to something.
2
@Edward
O'Rourke was a US Congressmen for three terms.
He doesn't need to be Trump's equal, he just needs to be a better option.
Rather than joining the 2020 presidential race, I'd like to see him go for Cornyn's seat.
3
Edward,
To say that Beto O'Rourke isn't an equal to Donald Trump is a compliment to Beto.
3
@Edward
You mean unlike the years he spent winning election to the El Paso city council and then the three terms he served in the U.S. House? He's already won a bunch more elections than your man.
2
The people in that picture at the top of this article -- they sure look dangerous, but only if you are Donald Trump and the fear-mongering Republican party trying desperately to rally the haters in their base.
Pictures speak and captions as well: Migrants crossing a river in El Paso. The picture and caption are, unfortunately proof for Trumps insidious claims, though the threesome (Parents plus adult son?) don't look like human traffickers or drug dealers or criminals ready to shoot up innocent Americans.
What will the construction workers to these three and the other two further advanced towards the fence? Citizens' arrests? Call the border patrol. hand out invitations to either Trump' or Beto's events?
Lawlessness looks rather casual on this image. Makes it harder to plead for lawful entry via asylum seeking.
Also, this looks like a canal, not a river, not the Rio Grande.
I'm for (generous) legal immigration and comprehensive immigration reform. But I don't like the illegal border crossings. It's not right. And Trump's hateful propaganda is not right either (this employer of illegal immigrants because of cheap labor and the reliability of these workers. He is an exploiter in every way. Hope he'll be out of office very soon.
1
I don't know much about Beto, but holding a counter rally in the same city as trump is pure genius.
2
I hope the backdrop for O'Rourke's rally is both a Texas and American flag. That will be in sharp contrast to Trump standing in front of a barrier wall.
1
I'm a strong supporter for "the wall" and I'll give you my logic. According to the US Customs and Border protection website, there are an average of about 50k apprehensions a month at the Mexico/US border. They are apprehended because it's illegal to try to gain entry to the US without a proper visa. When you factor in the people power to process all those apprehensions and then think about how the people that make it through without being apprehended and the strain on our economy to support them, I find it incredible that creating barriers is not a logical solution.
I'll remind the NYT readers that this logic was also upheld by leading Democrats in 2006 by the Secure Fence act of 2006. It's suspicious that a decade layer this is a non negotiable topic for the Democrats.
3
"Every year from 1985 to 2014, El Paso’s violent crime rate was significantly lower than the average for all localities of similar size."
"In 2007, the year before fence construction started, El Paso’s violent crime rate was 417.8 offenses per 100,000 population. From 2007 to 2010, the rate increased 5.5 percent.
From 2007 to 2011, the rate increased 3.2 percent.
It also increased from 2006 to 2011, by 9.6 percent."
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/feb/08/donald-t...
They rated Trump's statement FALSE!
3
This is like Apollo Creed meets Rocky Balboa. The president had better be careful who he's picking fights with.
One is trying to put a wall to maintain chaos coming from the border meanwhile the other is trying to facilitate people crossing the border into the country to create chaos. Whose politicians is fighting for every day American? In a common sense arena you know who it is.
2
@JP
What does "maintain chaos" mean? Sounds like "preserving disorder".
Creating a 1000-mile construction zone seems like a surefire way to do.
If O’Roarke is patient, calm, collected and certain, Trump will lose whatever restraint he possesses early. This confrontation is interesting to say the least.
2
The Republican mayor of El Paso was interviewed on CNN this morning. He said that EVERYTHING that Trump said in his State of the Union speech about crime, etc. in El Paso is all LIES. Just more fear mongering and lies from Trump. So what else is new?
1
Wouldn't it be a hoot if nobody turned out for you-know-who?
And thousands turned out for O'Rourke.
Just sayin....
3
Might it be possible to arrange for Trump to do more than a 2 hour fly in to a border town, say, to stay and visit families for several in both sides of the border so he can grasp the reality of life there? These rabble rousing efforts clearly aren’t helping him become better informed about life there but surely appease his rabid staffers and base.
1
I hope that Beto O'Rourke, as a Texan born and bred, will have the courage to point out that Trump and his supporters are wailing for a wall because they simply do not like Mexicans, and don't like Hispanic Americans. I hope he has the presence of mind to point out that if Anglo-Americans didn't want Mexicans in the US, they shouldn't have fought a war 170 years ago to annex the northern half of Mexico - which has led to 170 years of continuing ties across the border. That situation has ripened into a cultural and economic plus to the US. We claim to want to sell US goods and services to the rest of the world - a deal that is only sweetened if those to whom we market are also needed in our labor market, and can participate in the US economy in a way that almost ALL their expenditures contribute to our GNP, and all the taxes they pay enrich our treasury. If Republicans and Trumpistas really fear that jobs of citizens are being sacrificed, their logical recourse is not to build a wall, it is to enforce laws on the books against hiring non-citizens. But don't expect logic to govern when the real story is racism and the cynical ploy of billionaires to make racists their political puppets.
37
@Pete
Your post touches on an honest question that I don't fully understand. Is there no democrat led political will to push the policy debate towards legislation requiring american businesses to use e-Verify for ALL hiring, with the burden of proof of the enforcement of on the employer? Punishment not limited to monetary setbacks if habitual offenders. I think the republican messaging would change drastically if presented as a viable alternative and threaten a penny of their shameless profits they make on undocumented employees.
@Pete That is some drivel and revisionist history. Annexed Northern Mexico? The Republc of Texas formed prior to joining the USA, the US annexed nothing. Is everything racism? It is about prohibiting drugs, gangs, and human traffickers. Moreover, these aren't hispanics, they are mostly Hondurans and Guatemalans, who are indigenous Central Americans more than Hispanics. We have always welcomed immigrants, and will gladly welcome Hispanics or Central Americans, but they must do so lawfully. Why would be ever want to allow immigration by those whose first act is to break our laws? A basic respect for a nation's laws if the most desirable trait for a prospective citizen, wouldn't you agree?
1
My understanding is that border security is not meant to stop legal immigrants through designated entry points but to stop illegal flow of drug traffickers and human traffickers. If there was a proper system of temporary work permits that was enforceable then thousands could have crossed legally through the entry points for work in the USA. Congress should have passed immigration reforms long time ago.
6
Lawlessness is a lousy campaign issue to run on. Texas has twenty-nine legal ports of entry from Mexico to the U.S. so why does Beto insist that people skip our security checkpoints? Just in El Paso, there are three ports of entry where eighteen thousand people enter the U.S. legally each day, it is not a big deal unless you are a criminal. Agents may search your car for drugs, weapons, unsafe goods, agricultural pests, diseases, and human trafficking. If you have nothing to hide it is smooth sailing. There is no excuse for entering the U.S. illegally and if O’Rourke does not uphold the laws of this country, he should be disqualified from running for office.
4
As Beto does not hold office and has not announced his candidacy for further office, what exactly is his basis for holding a counter-Trump press event?
6
@CHM His American citizenship.
15
@CHM Maybe he has an announcement to make. I wish they would both just be quiet.
Brilliant response! We should all own this battle
Beto O'Rourke is a sideshow to Trump's visit. He's pretty much irrelevant to everything even to debates about the wall in his hometown where the evidence is overwhelmingly on Trump's side.
6
@Amy What evidence? The lie about el paso being a dangerous city before the wall?
The lie about el paso becoming safer after the wall?
You sound like trump in that you think simply stating something makes it a fact. Please list one piece of evidence that's on his side. Bonus points for evidence that justifies spending $50B on a wall
15
@Josh
As I posted in this thread earlier:
https://realestate.usnews.com/places/texas/el-paso/crime
(scroll down a bit)
3
@Amy did you not hear the Republican mayor of El Paso say, Trump is lying??? Trump always lies. Its pathological.
It's one of his sicknesses and makes him more dangerous every day. When Trump was asked by Bob Woodward what his definition of power, Trump said, "FEAR." Please wake up.
3
I know at least 1 thing Trump will probably say. He will say something like "at least I didn't lose to Ted Cruz". It's as predictable as Trump saying a snowstorm disproves climate change. He's a sadly predictable man.
5
@Nancy Popper Great insight - Trump is certain to say that. Of course, this comment says far, far more about the deplorable Texans than about Beto O'Rourke. But he sadly and predictably won't realize that.
1
@Nancy Popper
And maybe that "Beatle" made him *appreciate* Ted Cruz.
Trump is clamoring for the attention of base voters (with the help of favorable coverage from Fox News, and smiles from Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh). Sowing fear, anger, and hatred of immigrants to rally base voters is a nasty business (but is the heart of Trump's strategy).
I hope Mr. O'Rourke will remind the general public that many illegal immigrants have worked as Trump's employees over the years.
63
@Gilber20 That immigrants have worked @ Trump owned hotels would be a very lite position against a guy (Trump) who'd simply laugh that off. And then ad, "yeah and I paid them too much." Beto either goes toe-to-toe or gets creative. But qn obvious, junior-league, low impact approach ain't gonna cut it.
1
It would be interesting to know the feelings of Congressman Will Hurd, Republican who represents the district immediately east of El Paso (and the longest stretch of the US - Mexico border). I believe he opposes the Trump Wall.
7
This will be interesting. I pass through El Paso all the time (I live in New Mexico). It's a multi-ethnic, fairly progressive city that benefits enormously from trade with Mexico. Yes, there is a hideous fence along the border, but the idea that drug cartels can outwit our police, Feds and courts but are somehow made helpless by a flimsy barrier like this is so ludicrous only Individual 1 could or does believe it. I can't wait to see who will be in the audience - not the richly diverse citizens of El Paso, I'm fairly certain, but more likely the hardcore nativists, racists and all-around deplorables who make Texas such a horrifying part of the Union.
8
@Trollope In our defense, you may recall Texas did try to leave the Union a few years back.
2
I hope some of those people at the MAGA rally in El Paso are from out of state so they can educate the border dwellers about how dangerous their home is. Long ago I had the thought that a person who told me all about where I lived when he had never been there just has to be brainwashed.
6
If I can't find a news station that only shows Beto I'll skip both speakers. I'm tired of the media being the propaganda arm of this administration. Time to retake the airways for something that matters.
7
I hope the media gives fair and equal coverage to O'Rourke, a man who knows and understands El Paso and will likely provide intelligent information and honest discourse. The press should not make the same mistake they made during the presidential election -- injudicious and limitless coverage of Trump--which was was always a tirade of perverse, dishonest and rude blabber. Instead they should be covering news that is responsible intelligent and meaningful. Edit out the nonsense and real fake news he spews and don't give Trump another free press ride.
13
Is this “essential” travel for Mr. Trump? Government workers, who may be looking at a second shutdown this weekend, probably don’t think so.
13
What happened to all that "Promises Made, Promises Kept"?
The main foundation of Trump's promised wall was Mexico would pay for it. Why are the American people being asked to finance Trump's ridiculous promise/lie?
12
What wonderful optics! Genius vs. Utter Ineptitude! Maybe we could get Linda McMahon to officiate?
4
@Andy
Yep - Trump the genius and O'Rourke is ineptitude.
2
The purpose of the border fence is to reduce illegal immigration, not crime in El Paso or other U.S. cities. Customs and Border Protection states, “The primary goal of the border wall and other tactical infrastructure projects is to gain effective control of the border. Border wall construction is intended to provide persistent impedance and denial to illegal cross-border activity. Border wall systems provide U.S. Border Patrol agents a greater ability to detect and respond to illegal cross-border entriesCustom and Border Patrol statistic irrefutably show the fence reduces illegal immigration.” CBP statistics show the fence accomplishes its purpose.
However, O’Rourke knows that crime dropped significantly in El Paso during the 1980s and early1900s when the Border Patrol began stationing Border Patrol units in close proximity to each other along the entire length of the Rio Grande as it flowed between El Paso and Juarez. There was no fence, but there was a wall of Border Patrol cruisers. Now the fence is making the El Paso sector even more secure.
10
@William Case - "Every year from 1985 to 2014, El Paso’s violent crime rate was significantly lower than the average for all localities of similar size."
"In 2007, the year before fence construction started, El Paso’s violent crime rate was 417.8 offenses per 100,000 population. From 2007 to 2010, the rate increased 5.5 percent.
From 2007 to 2011, the rate increased 3.2 percent.
It also increased from 2006 to 2011, by 9.6 percent."
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/feb/08/donald-trump/no-border-barrier-did-not-drive-down-crime-el-paso/
You win the Trump Memorial Lie of the day Award, William.
Congratulations.
20
@William Customs And Porder Patrol should very careful what they wish for. A truly effective wall solution would render border patrol useless. We don't need to employ people to stand and look at the backside of a wall if the wall is built in an effective way. That's how it should be paid for, by laying off thousands of unneeded agents. Win win.
2
@William Case Trump whipping up hate against brown people is the issue. Immigration and wall was not a major issue till Trump picked it to whip up hate in his base. Crime dropped well before the fence/wall of cruisers. You promote hate; we want a united America. Ray Sipe
6
I'd like to see Trump really attempt to tackle the scourge of illegal drugs that have created a true national emergency in this country. Whole communities have been devastated by drugs. Men and women are dying every day. In some areas, emergency personnel have so many 911 calls they can't respond to them all. Drugs enter the country by so many sources that it's laughable to expect a wall at the southern border to stop even a fraction. A large portion of the synthetic drugs killing so many are manufactured right here in the US. So much more is needed. This is a public health emergency and Trump and the Republicans are ignoring it, just as they did the AIDS crisis during the Reagan years. That was a shameful episode in Reagan's presidency, and doing nothing to address the current drug crisis will be a shameful legacy for Trump. Don't Republicans ever learn? Or care?
3
Why we need a Sothern border wall and how the Mexicans will pay for it.
Part 2.
The IRS and Social security need to notify every American citizen whose Social security number is being used by another person.
Follow the laws and send notifications to each employer notifying them that they have submitting duplicate social security numbers.
As required by law send the list of employees using another person’s Social security number to Department of Homeland Security.
And most important Since 82% of the theft of American Citizens social security numbers are Mexican Citizens Illegally working in the United States the United States government should use these Illegally obtained funds pay for The Sothern border wall, port security and Law enforcement efforts to stop the theft of American Citizens Social Security numbers.
3
@Visual321 - The reason Mexican use false SS numbers is they need them to get jobs.
AND THEY PAY SS TAX
AND THEY DO NOT GET BENEFITS
"The Social Security system has grown increasingly reliant on this stream of revenue, particularly as aging Baby Boomers start to retire. Stephen Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration, estimates that about 1.8 million immigrants were working with fake or stolen Social Security cards in 2010, and he expects that number to reach 3.4 million by 2040. He calculates that undocumented immigrants paid $13 billion into the retirement trust fund that year, and only got about $1 billion in benefits. “We estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010,” Gross concluded in a 2013 review of the impact of undocumented immigrants on Social Security."
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/
2
@Len Charlap
I know all the numbers. SSA has stopped sending notices to employers since 2008 in violation of the law. If you as an American citizen used someone else's social security number on any government form you would be charged with a crime. This is not a left or right issue. The largest growing crimes in the USA are identity theft. I do not understand how you can try and justify the theft of USA citizens social security numbers. I have spent a lot of time on capital hill on this issue. And almost every congressman I have talked to have stories of Americans citizens effected by the theft of there SSN for illegal employment.,
1
@Visual321 - I do not buy an argument based on "almost every congressman I have talked to have stories." Anecdotal evidence is not data. Give me some numbers and references as I gave you to show how this practice provides billions to support SS.
Yep, the just arrested ( one Friday ) a child sex offender who was trying to enter the US. Nope, there is no criminals in the illegal population, so say Democrats. Check the facts.
3
@Tony J Mann - Go to the blackboard and write
"The plural of anecdote is not data."
1,000 times.
The facts:
""As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans in Texas in 2015," author Alex Nowrasteh writes. "The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate."
"States with larger shares of undocumented immigrants tended to have lower crime rates than states with smaller shares in the years 1990 through 2014. "Increases in the undocumented immigrant population within states are associated with significant decreases in the prevalence of violence,"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?utm_term=.44df2d80f5d7
5
Beto O'Rourke wrote this well reasoned, well written post on Medium this weekend:
https://medium.com/@BetoORourke/the-president-is-coming-to-el-paso-monday-bbd4a023c77c
Everyone should read it. This is the voice of an intelligent, clear eyed, yet compassionate adult. It's a breath of fresh air, compared to the Trump show. I'll be streaming Beto at 6 PM Pacific time tonight.
5
The crime rate in El Paso has always been low since Dallas Stoudenmire was Marshall. So the legend goes! I am not sure why Trump thinks there was a problem.
2
If Beto says early tonight that he's running for President, will the media cover Trump at all?
4
Taxpayers should not be forced to pay billions for a campaign pledge.
Do not make me pay for this when it was Mexico you said all along would pick up the tab.
We call this bait and switch where I come from and it is ILLEGAL.
7
@rubbernecking
Please read my comment of why we need a Sothern border wall and how Mexico will pay for it.
@Visual321 I don't see any comment, I see bait and switch with is ILLEGAL.
Why we need a border wall and how Mexico will pay for it.
Part 1#
The theft of US citizens Social security numbers have reached epidemic levels. 1 out of every 7 Americans Social security numbers have been used to commit identity fraud. this represent the largest amount of Identity theft in the history of the United states.
These induvial have used stolen Americans social security numbers to illegally obtain employment in the United states.
Over the last 8 years the employers of these Illegal workers submitted W2’s with stolen Social security numbers that have generated a Fund of over 1 trillion dollars in tax and social security withholdings that legally can never be claimed. Those illegally obtained withholding are kept in an Earnings Suspense File Account are subject to Forfeiture and could be use by the Government.
It is of the utmost importance The US government quickly act to stop this theft of Identify.
2
@Visual321 - That Fund is being used to support the payment of SS benefits for the general population. The SS Admin. relies on it to make ends meet.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/
2
I am sure the El Paso, Ciudad Juarez, Las Cruses area has changed in the 47 years since I was stationed at Fort Bliss. No one has brought up Fort Bliss when talking about El Paso but back then it was a major contributor to the local economies. Crossing the border in either way was just part of daily life for thousands of people. Nobody thought twice about it. Living on one side of the border and working on the other side was commonplace.
I preferred getting away from the bottlenecks of urban life and tourists. Several miles down river from El Paso was a quiet two lane crossing. A wave of the hand from the border guards was the security when I passed in both directions. After you got by the three or four resort hotels that catered to U.S. divorcees, you would find yourself in the foothills of the Sierra Madres.
The El Paso area was a international community then. Today I imagine it has only become larger, more interconnected and the better off for it. Texas is a big state as they like to constantly remind us. El Paso is culturally different then East Texas or the Gulf. El Paso is more aligned to the Southwest. Living in or near deserts changes you. I am certain the caterwauling of the President won't change the ways of the people that live there, unless it is forced upon them. If I remember correctly, it's not a good idea to force a Texan.
6
Our biggest threats are things we cannot easily "see"; carbon dioxide (global warming), killer flu, Ebola, Aids, ticks, greed, fear, wind, ignorance, illness etc., etc. All the world's military might is powerless. All the walls are powerless.
4
Beto, I wish I could be there with you tonight.
5
The headline should be:
“Trump Loots Treasury For Campaign Stop; Beto Finds Reason To Run”
5
Beto O'Rourke is a progressive pretty-boy just like the Kennedy brothers and Bill Clinton.
1
@Andrew Gockel - Yeah, we should make ugliness a requirement for public service.
3
Hm. I am of many minds about this.
Seems like the best outcome for O'Rourke is some good PR in service of his presidential campaign, but, as much as I detest the president, he thrives in situations like this. Most of the US has long since lost patience with Trump. The best campaign strategy for the Democrats now might be to just let him continue to flounder and expose how unqualified he is for the next 18 months. I don't think it's a good idea to engage Trump where he does best -- riling people up with a microphone. Just let him make his stupid wall speech and then throw a fit when the wall isn't funded.
5
This confrontation will almost certainly put Democrats' feet in cement as the party of open borders. Perhaps they'd be well advised after this not to try and cross that river with those concrete overshoes.
3
You call this a rally. Do you mean a campaign rally? If so, who is paying for Trump's travel, city expenses, protection? If not, what about all his campaign rallies? Are they 100% covered by his campaign? Or are taxpaying citizens footing part of the bill? Should we?
We're already spending millions and millions of our taxes to fly him back and forth to Mar-a-Largo. (This doesn't even cover the incredible carbon footprint he has created.) Let's see some accounting.
16
@Ms
Hmmn.. I wonder what Obama's "Carbon footprint" looked like from his multiple long flights from DC to Hawaii.
Typical rhetoric - "How dare he!" How could he!" But for "us", it was ok.
1
@Ms
And his wife takes a separate government plane for her own Mar-a-Lago weekends.
GREAT! See Trump run; puff puff goes spot! When the Mayor of the city and all the data show beyond a doubt that Trump is lying a whopper again, the Republican will ignore it as usual.
How such people can disgrace this country by enabling Trump is beyond me. They are the real obstructionist elitists, not Democrats.
This circus is getting old. If Trump’s enablers in Congress don’t wake up soon, they will certainly be replaced by Smurfs in the next election. FACTS DON’T LIE, Trump does though.
9
I wish the Times would tell us who is paying for these campaign events. The president has held political rallies all over the country during his first two years in office. They are overtly partisan political events, not the usual presidential addresses. I want to know who pays for the venues, PR, etc. I also want to know how much it costs for a presidential plane, Secret Service details, etc. and what the funding sources are.
220
@Susan--You and I and every taxpayer pays for it all.
15
@Susan I guess the American people forget, President Trump is donating his entire presidential wages back to America and their needs. He is fighting the corrupt deep state all my himself, which he gets no credit at all. The American people need to hear him, and the cost obama cost the US is unforgivable. All of his Hawaiian vacations, golfing during every American crises, I could go on. So why don't we just say thank you President Trump.
7
@ Susan in Boston
and it costs millions, don’t forget the rest of his brood we are paying for as well...and his Fox News cronies who show up at those events to reinforce the lies and hatred he spews....
12
Funny, the FBI said El Paso didn't have crime before the wall. They couldn't even bring themselves to admit HILLARY committed felonies...well they did but they said she didn't really mean to commit felonies. The FBI is not to be trusted.
Why wasn't the El Paso police department questioned? Trump will be found to be right yet again. Bet on it.
3
@George Orwell
So you happen to know what felonies Hillary committed?
2
@George Orwell -
"Every year from 1985 to 2014, El Paso’s violent crime rate was significantly lower than the average for all localities of similar size."
"In 2007, the year before fence construction started, El Paso’s violent crime rate was 417.8 offenses per 100,000 population. From 2007 to 2010, the rate increased 5.5 percent.
From 2007 to 2011, the rate increased 3.2 percent.
It also increased from 2006 to 2011, by 9.6 percent."
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/feb/08/donald-t...
They rated Trump's statement FALSE!
Why would Trump mention him (O'Rourke)? Trump will be reiterating the need to secure our souther border and protect the American people from uncontrolled immigration, illegal alien crime, drug trafficking, sex trafficking coming across our southern border- and to do this with a fixed structure acting as a wall forming a central component of a grander border security scheme/system, all common improvements designed to keep our citizenry safe, and better define our southern border.
Most clear thinking democrats (like you perhaps) may (even) agree with Trump on this, but democrat leadership and the their media, still says you are wrong. Hmmm...
Democrat leaders are not listening.
3
At some point, I expect Trump and Beto to end up on the same side of the current Political dividing line.
Yes. Sounds crazy dont it? But both men come from wealth and power. Beto being to the manor born in the Business Elite Class of El Paso. Beto's closest ally is fellow El Pasoan and Republican Congressman William Hurd. I would be certain that Mr. O'Rourke's primary agenda is the promotion of More Business Opportunities from his Patrons.....and that means CLOSER ties to Juarez, Chihuahua...and expanding markets south of the border. Most Border Residents have come to understand, the Central American Indios(many of whom have problems speaking spanish,,,,first language is quechan or something)....are interlopers who actually spoil the deal.
The REAL problem is Guatamala and Honduras with their police states and religious oppression(NOT America's fault).....something that has been going on for over 500 years.
2
Beto and trump on split screen? Beauty and the Beast. Turn off the volume.' A picture is worth a thousand words.
3
@Lucretius
Yes, you're right - a picture is worth a thousand words!
A winner in the 2016 Presidential election on one side of your "split screen" and a loser in 2018 mid-terms on the other.
Perfect!
2
I wonder if the Times could print a list of every false statement made by every current U.S. Senator in the last year. It would be interesting to compare their performance with that of Trump.
While Trump certainly gives the appearance of being a voracious liar, I suspect that this "meta" fact check would be of substantial value.
The biggest problem I have with Trumps mouth activity, is that it sets a horrible example for young people in our country. When I was growing up, the example every kid was taught about was George Washington, the man who could not tell a lie.
Now, children see daily tweets doses from the man who does not seem capable of telling the truth. Since he is the most powerful man in the world, that must have a bad effect on children, who tend to be very impressionable.
If the ancient Greeks "removed" the very wise man Socrates on a charge of "corrupting the youth", maybe that is the way we should be heading with the not so wise, most powerful man in the world.
Again, I'd like to see an objective study printed, so a case could be built against Trump, if the results come out the way I think they will.
3
Said we have been dragged through the mud for a couple of years. Sadder that people believe his lies as the scriptures, particularly if you are a devoted evangelical that think everything written in the bible it is written by God. No it was written by human, many years ago. The mud has been splashed on the face of these people and become dry as a crust on their eyes that it is impossible to see the light of the truth anymore. Look at the level of lies fabricated and manipulated , with the latest instructions given to the IRA to manipulate withholding, now everybody it is made because they will need to pay taxes. These are not fake news, these are news for your pocket. Difficult to explain to those that are stubborn in accepting reality. Those that deny that the sun is covered by the clouds and argue that there is no sun. I do not waste my energy anymore with those poeple. At the same time I have lost empathy for them, hopefully the farmers go bankruptcy and suffer, the people in the coal country get sick without Obama care, sad to come to this point.
1
I wish I could make the trip to support Beto and common sense border security policy. Plus, I am sick and tired of Trump’s campaign rallies that my tax dollars no doubt support! It is long past time for the rest of us to drown out his nonsensical slogans and venom.
36
What is said by either of these men won't be important or remembered. Beto will be rational and compassionate. The other guy will again show us his boring histrionics and mindless chants. But the words won't matter. What will matter will be the split screen shot. Whoever draws the larger crowd will win. A Trump rally has never been challenged before so he is he one taking a huge risk--because if his crowd size is smaller then...well, you know...this is about hand size and power!
7
@Woody Well, since one is at the stadium and the other at a high school gym, Beto already made that perceived competition a nonfactor. Beto has a way of making it about the issues with honest, positive statements and facts. And, as usual, it won't matter where he states them.
4
Is it just me or does this article come across like a monster truck rally ad? "Monday! Monday! Monday!" What gives?
Point in fact: There was going to be a protest no matter what O'Rourke decided to do. Trump is obviously provoking O'Rourke by choosing El Paso. O'Rourke could sit this one out and the take heat from protesters later OR he could try to turn the episode into something positive. It's a media fork either way. Why are the media buying-in?
I'll skip both speeches. If something interesting happens, there's always YouTube. It's not like the event hasn't been publicized already. Thank goodness Trump is likely the last TV President ever. Americans are already over the "truck-a-saurus" memes. Look... small hands...
I am looking at the picture and the wall does not look like it is deterring those immigrants from approaching.
1
The photo of those people trying to cross the border certainly is not favourable to those who are against the wall. As for this debate, it certainly going to be quite interesting to see 2 Republicans "debating" against one another.
2
I am confused, it looks like the wall is not a deterrent to those in the picture.
4
Interesting to me that this border wall issue still has so much traction on the right for el Presidente. As a resident of a border town with a fence and vehicle barriers and a large desert on either side of the border, I can't help but think the money for a fence could go towards something way more popular for the folks on the right who live here. Something more tangible - like an AR-15 for everyone, maybe? Or a "border citizen" tax cut since we have to deal with the hordes of criminal illegals? Free #MAGA swag? I just feel like a wall doesn't do much for me at this point.
9
There is wind advisory for today during the time of both rallyes. I'm sure Trump's comb-over will be well protected inside the El Paso Coliseum. Beto is used to the weather, so it won't deter him, but the wind and dust will certainly cut down on the outdoor participation. While the President is flying in to El Paso, I'm sure he will have a bouncy landing even for a 747 with winds gusting to 45 mph.
5
@Unclebugs
When the wind blows I'm El Paso its blow hard, but due to low humidity, the weather is generally great.
Every country in the world defends their borders. Most with deadly force. All we do, if they are caught, is feed them and give free transport back across the border. What's the point? They aren't going to stop when they know nothing much will be done to them if their caught.
4
@shawn lindsey
Yes, God forbid we should feed hungry people! Geeze, get a grip Shawn.
3
10 to 1 trump cancels
5
@Maggie
I would take that bet. Anyone would.
Why on earth would he cancel?
2
@George Orwell
Because he’s afraid O’Rourke will show him up
1
Imagine if Obama was to take land away from Texans via eminent domain.
42
@Hb
Texans lose land to eminent domain for electric power transmission lines, and oil, gas and water pipelines. The fence effects far fewer property owners. Some landowners oppose the fence while some welcome it. They get a federally maintained and federally patrolled fence on their southern boundary plus a federally maintained road in addition to cash for right-of-way,
This is must-see tv and I hope for some split-screen live shots! trumpsters will surely be fired up by trump's gross distortions and lies; I hope O'Rourke will have an equally loud audience cheering the truth.
17
Mr. Trump is like the face book trolls who support him by typing in all capital letters. The both think that shouting makes a bad argument correct, turns lies into truth.
5
Trump preaching hate and division; O'Rourke preaching unity and common sense. Trump is kissing up to his base; O'Rourke is the voice of America. I choose sanity and a whole America. Ray Sipe
44
Face off? Face offs are between equals which is not the case here. Mr. O' Rourke is a fully developed adult with a vocabulary that is expected from a fully developed adult; physically and intellectually. Donald J. Trump is a foulmouthed, inarticulate, intellectually underdeveloped individual in an adult's body. Those, like Trump,who resort to or depend on denigration, mockery and threats to attack an opponent in politics, business or personal relationships to make their point are devoid of any intellectual resources to have a conversation or rational debate. Those who choose to lower themselves to Trump's level are on the cusp of losing their self respect.
89
A quote from one of Trump's tweets in this story:
"The Democrats do not want us to detain, or send back, criminal aliens! This is a brand new demand. Crazy!"
This is the sum total of his message: Fear and ignorance.
How will the audience for tonight's 'speech' be chosen?
In my dream, a large group of people will pretend to be his supporters and be admitted. Then, in a well orchestrated display scream: "You Lie" over and over.
This is a nationally televised event.
Will his thugs beat them?
12
I cannot think of a more fulfilling end to my day than to watch his Heinous be trumped, diminished and be shown for the cheap and despicable charlatan he is.
May this mark a further continuance of this time of much needed change.
14
May be Donald Trump needs to look at his administration and who is surrounded with before he called desperate migrants criminal. He should be the last one to call anyone criminal. Trump is the one that still protect the butcher of Yemen, Mr. Bone Saw, who butchered the Washington Post Journalist inside the Saudi consulate. Crazy, isn't it?
15
I have a feeling that this stunt by Trump will backfire.
El Paso is Beto O'Rourke's neck of the woods, and he's pretty popular there.
34
Heh, heh, heh. Not a huge Beto fan, but git ‘im, Beto. Laughing Boy hates sharing the spotlight.
17
Just like an elementary school student used to have to write out what they did wrong 100 times on wide-ruled yellow lined paper - an entire column should repeat Trump's lie and The Times' correction a hundred times to see if we can get through The echo chamber Wall to his supporters:
"But before the border barriers were completed in El Paso, in 2008, the city had the second-lowest violent crime rate among more than 20 similarly sized American cities. In 2010, after the fence construction, it retained its ranking."
"But before the border barriers were completed in El Paso, in 2008, the city had the second-lowest violent crime rate among more than 20 similarly sized American cities. In 2010, after the fence construction, it retained its ranking."
"But before the border barriers were completed in El Paso, in 2008, the city had the second-lowest violent crime rate among more than 20 similarly sized American cities. In 2010, after the fence construction, it retained its ranking."
...
#buildtruthnotwalls
13
I looked up the stats
80-89 7.0 murders per 100k
00-09 2.5 murders per 100k
7
Violent crime in the US peaked in 1991 and has fallen drastically since that time. The statistical trans you referenced( while conveniently leaving out a decade) would be similar for many American cities.
4
Either this a amazingly smart move on part of Donald Trump or the ultimate in political stupidity. You fight a battle on your opponents field of advantage and you will lose.
“The wise warrior avoids the battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
2
Only legal emigration, wall will stop illegals and crime , no border means drugs traffic to USA. How Difficult is that to understand . President Trump is right.
4
Trump has never been right a day in his life.
12
@Debbie, you are misinformed.
Trump:
He enforced President Barack Obama’s red line against Syria’s use of chemical weapons.
He has taken a surprisingly tough line with Russia. Trump approved a $47 million arms package for Ukraine, sent troops to Poland’s border with Russia and imposed new sanctions on Moscow for violating the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty.
He recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Four American presidents promised to do it, but only one actually did.
He withdrew from the Paris climate agreement.
He got NATO allies to kick in $12 billion more toward our collective security.
He has virtually eliminated the Islamic State’s physical caliphate. Trump removed the constraints Obama placed on our military and let it drive the terrorists from their strongholds.
He enacted historic tax and regulatory reform that has unleashed economic growth. Trump signed the first comprehensive tax reform in three decades and removed the wet blanket of Obama-era regulations smothering our economy.
He has brought North Korea to the bargaining table to eliminate their nuclear weapons making the world a safer place.
He made it easier to fire poor-performing federal government workers.
We now have history low levels of unemployment among blacks and Hispanics.
He signed the bill for prison reform. Something both Clinton and Obama failed at.
Jobless claims hit 202,000 in September, which was the lowest level since December 1969.
Please, just stop letting these men talk.
1
Neither Donnie nor Beto accurately aptly represent the brown Native aboriginal pioneer nor Spanish and Comanche Empire roots of Texas. Neither man represents Mexican American Texan heritage.
Nor do the white Canadian Cuban Ted Cruz and the white European American Bush and the white European American Abbott and Cornyn accurately aptly represent the Native and Mexican roots of Texas.
3
We’ve all seen Trump’s reality-TV routine as he lurches around on a platform, wildly gesticulating in a crimson runway-tie and bright white or red oversized baseball hat planted on his orange hair—
With word salad and numbing stream-of-consciousness jabber.
11
The “dueling” rallies will truly be a case of nativist “MAGA”s vs. inclusive “DMAG”s (Diversity Makes America Great)...
9
Every mile of the border without an effective barrier is a mile controlled by the Mexican Cartels. That control is worth $ billions.
2
Come on...you just made that up.
2
@jaco
Evidence? Dems are not opposed to border security we just want it to be evidence based and effective.
4
The Fake President's trusty Lie-O-Meter will be working on overdrive tonight in El Paso. Perhaps so much that it might self destruct, if America is lucky. Has any other national figure ever swooned over the beauty of barbed wire, the sublimity of steel slats, or the comeliness of concrete? Dumb, but Dangerous.
93
@John Grillo
My fervent wish is for the good people of El Paso to stay away in droves. An empty stadium would send the message Trump needs to hear. It’s over! Trump loses! USA regains her lost dignity.
30
The lumbering old fool meets the new kid on the block. Pass the popcorn, with real butter. Delicious.
23
@Phyliss Dalmatian
Don't indulge in that kind of thinking. That "lumbering old fool" wasn't supposed to win in 2016 either. Underestimating an opponent is the deadliest political mistake, especially when that opponent already enjoys the power of incumbency and the largest platform on Earth.
3
Wall completion is irrelevant. Wall announcement and active building is all that is required to send the crims elsewhere. I’ll bet the correlation to commitment to a wall and drop in crime is spot on...
So far the only specifics discussed about the wall include its design (not quite "Escape from Dannemora" proof). Not much has been mentioned about its distance from the Rio Grande nor nothing about how it will meander through (or avoid) the mountainous Big Bend National Park. If security is really the purpose (and not racist political blather), shouldn't a second wall be built 70 to 100 miles north of the first wall? And wouldn't Super Max style deeply buried concrete pillars be better? Or we could just use CGI to give Trump a fence visible with his tanning bed goggles on, and save the cash to build him the best golden statue on the border money can buy.
4
Mr.Trump will no doubt use intemperate language to describe immigrants and the crime he insists that they bring.His crowd will chant “ lock them up”.He will try to inject fear and loathing into a city that is peaceful and prosperous.It will be refreshing to have Beto O’Rourke there as a truth teller to represent the city he has lived in and where he has family and friends.Trump’s negativity is so old, so depressing- it will,be refreshing to have a young, optimistic speaker.Go Beto!
23
No doubt the Administration has already counted tonight's MAGA crowd and determined that it was Trump's "BIGGEST CROWD EVER!"
Whether Mr. O'Rourke ends up in the 2020 presidential race or not, he's already becoming Mr. Trump's most dangerous rival simply because people might notice that he's everything Mr. Trump is not: He's curious; he's honest; he's articulate; he's compassionate; he's likable; he's even handsome. America, YOU GOTTA COMPARE.
24
The cable networks should keep a split screen going the entire time. That would be fair.
4
I hope the Beto rally is better attended. We all know how important crowd size is to Trump.
26
@D Price It really doesn't matter. The crowd in his mind is always larger than life.
3
For two years Trump was not demanding funding for "The Wall." It was then, as it still is, a wedge-issue that solidifies his base.
Of course, now that Democrats control the House, The Wall has become a central issue and with an upcoming election in 2020 Trump doesn't want the actual wall (hence the ramp up of financial demands) but he wants it as an issue to continue to pillory the Democrats and portray Republicans (who refused to fund "The Wall" for two years) as victims of those evil Democrats claiming that Democrats want open borders, coddle criminals and drug dealers, et cetera.
The last thing Trump wants is an actual wall because he knows it will not solve the real problem - the two-sided issue of American demand for illegal drugs and the crime that comes along with the illegal drugs.
It is much easier to rant that to allow Americans to see that for all his bluster, Trump doesn't have a solution to the nations problems. Nor should he, that is that job the Congress has abdicated in favor of living in constant campaign mode.
6
El Paso is a beautiful, venerable, sophisticated and cosmopolitan city. It is not some Wild West cowtown, with an OK corral and hicks at the bar. El Pasans have fostered and promoted art, culture, education, and integration for generations, and will no doubt survive, pretty much undisturbed, a visit from Donald Trump.
12
If we had a real president, he (or she) would be in Washington, working for a bipartisan compromise to the “fantasy “border security” crisis and demonstrate some muscular leadership. We cannot continue to play the childish game “one; two; three redlight” with government employees.
I suspect, however, as he wolfs down his loaded double cheeseburgers and sips his Diet Cokes aboard Air Force One that he relishes the dysfunction that his campaign promise has wrought on the country—to the exclusion of all else.
He is playing to a small section of the house, ignoring those in the front rows and the aisles. He needs a strong closing act to bring down the house. If he isn’t careful, he’ll bring down the entire structure for no good reason.
He may not have been paying attention but Mitch McConnell has surely told him that he cannot summon a vote for another closing date.
1
I wish I were within driving distance of El Paso. I would love to attend Beto's rslly.
17
How disgusting is it, that the central political theater in the US apparently involves being fearful of those who come to our shores and borders simply to live.
That is what an illegal immigrant is, despite the massive damage Trump's hateful rhetoric has inflicted on this part of our national identity.
A nation of immigrants. To nation who hates immigrants.
This is the issue for 2020. Fear and disgust versus optimism and welcome.
8
Personally, I would rather watch a broken TV than have to look and listen to the mob-boss/president. Especially because we all know that the only walls that makes sense are those of the prison for him.
13
Every time a red-hat Trump rally occurs, Democrats should counter with a similar event in the same city that will attract the same level of TV coverage. Why let Trump garner all the free
political promotion?
12
This little showdown at the "OK Corral" in El Paso promises to be most interesting and informative. Trump will be armed with his usual false statements (lies actually), over the top rhetoric, and fear pedaling vs. O'Rourke who will be armed with facts and a community-focused positive immigration message. Trump may find just himself out-gunned in this confrontation. He'll claim victory of course, but the confrontation will most likely be another embarrassment for him. Let's hope so. I'm betting on O'Rourke.
103
Let the local people along the border vote on the wall. My understanding is that they don't want it.
I hope there is a large group of local people at the O'Rourke protest. Unfortunately, it's a weekday and many people probably can't afford to take the day off and show up.
I hope that Trump supporters far away from the border get to see that the locals don't need it and don't want it... If it's an emergency, that would not be the case....
24
Based on the what Trump said in the State of the Union, I thought the Secret Service would deem El Paso to dangerous to travel to.
My hope is that Beto will draw a bigger crowd. However, since Texas is a red state, I think the racist message that the President preaches will prove to be more popular.
7
@Sterling I don't think so - this is a border city and blue like all the Texas border cities. Texas is not uniformly red across its 254 counties and its 268,597 square miles.
4
@Sterling Texas may be all in for MAGA, but I wonder if the property owners along the border are going to gladly give up their land when they find out that it is being seized by right of eminent domain? Does his Texas base understand that most of the Texas border is in private hands? Do they understand Trump cannot build his wall on Mexican soil? Has anyone mentioned that this "emergency" wall he keeps citing will be in the courts for 20 years even if he jiggers DOD funds to build the thing? What kind of "emergency" is that? The public school system in Texas is pretty good; I don't get it.
3
I'd much prefer to watch a single screen, with a President O'Rourke on it.
56
Why oh why should another Lie Fest get televised? Haven't we heard enough? All the news has a responsibility to do is state that it is happening.
26
I hope that we Americans who don't live in El Paseo understand that the citizen of the city do NOT want the wall and resent trump lying about the city's crime rate, etc.
28
I'm proud to see Beto O' Rourke stand up to Trump in El Paso. Trump has lied with impunity about the safety of El Paso and most of the people there reject his divisiveness and transparent race-baiting. I hope the many people peacefully demonstrating against him know that millions of Americans are with them in spirit.
124
Would it be possible for the Newspaper of Record to acknowledge that 'the border' has not presented a problem to the United States since at least the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo? That there are no longer constant battles between the indigenous populations, Anglos, Mexicans, Spaniards, French or anyone else, no matter how much the imagination of New Yorkers wish to believe otherwise? That Pancho Villa is not still attacking Columbus, NM? That the greatest problem in the region are the marauders from Ohio and Pennsylvania and Illinois intent on securing something that is fully secure without their amateur 'help'? The whole charade lost its relevance some time ago and perpetuating it is neither useful nor informative.
41
@GWPDA Really? You think New Yorkers actually believe a word Trump says? Remember he came from here, most of us know what a con man he is and how he didn't pay his contractors and how he used to call up the press pretending to be someone else and would talk about what a stud Donald Trump was and how rich and so on. And we know how he walked away from his many failed businesses holding the cookie jar intact while his partners lost everything. And we are one of the blue states who ends up supporting the red states with our tax dollars. So in the few red areas here there may be someone so naïve as to believe in Trump, you would not catch a Yankee being that stupid as to believe in what you say.
12
Three cheers for Beto! A true American!
73
As long as more people show up to Beto's event than Trump's, I'm satisfied.
133
That would be awesome. I encourage anyone near Elias to come out and be seen!
12
@CKM prepare for severe disappointment...
2
@CKM Wait for Sanders to say this was the largest rally crowd he's ever had, period. In the history of the US, nay, the world.
5
“The border city of El Paso, Tex., used to have extremely high rates of violent crime — one of the highest in the entire country, and was considered one of our nation’s most dangerous cities. Now, immediately upon its building, with a powerful barrier in place, El Paso is one of the safest cities in our country,” he said.
When Trump delivered this outrageous lie in his State of the Union address, steam started coming out of my ears. For its size, El Paso has always been one of the safest cities in the nation as well as one of the oldest. Does he plan to apologize while he's there?
41
Trump will have some puerile, condescending litany of comments about Beto O'Rourke, chastising the Democrat as a political neophyte who "laid down like a dog' after his loss to Ted Cruz last year. It's all so predictable. Mr. O'Rourke, clearly more mature and reasoned, will discuss the issues like the adult that he is. The wall makes no sense, but effective border security does. This evening's histrionics should prove quite illuminating — shining a bright light on the fraud currently occupying the Oval Office, and the wise Texan who, it is hoped, will one day find himself there.
54
@H. Clark, I hope Beto "dog walks" Individual 1.
5
If this is a MAGA event, may we assume that Trump's re-election campaign is paying for it, and not us taxpayers?
We pay more than enough to send him off to golf courses or down to his resort in Florida on the weekends.
154
I hope O'Rourke trumpets Trump's hypocrisy and constant lying about illegal immigration. Wouldn't it be remarkable if O'Rourke could point out that neither political party wants real solutions to illegal immigration because their donors personally profit from it?
6
Excellent. We need someone with a lifetime of experience, on the ground experience, standing next to the border, to call Trump on his ego trip. Take Trump on head-to-head, not just off in Washington somewhere with Trump setting on his china, making things up, twitting away with his fingers, but on-the-border, with real people. We'll get right down to "just the facts Ma`am. Send Trump home packing.
5
I heard O'Rourke make a sensible comment some while back suggesting the US would be better using the wall money fighting and correcting the corruption in mid America that its own greed and blindness had caused.
A similar argument can be made for Europe and its exploitation of Africa and India etc.
In both cases the chickens are coming home to roost.
4
The president's first campaign rally ? When did he stopped having them. The continuos election cycle . It contributes to voter disinterest. Wears us out. Grrrrr!
Just don't shut down the government again. Please
6
Beto is taking the bait, attempting to take on Trump on Trump's terms.
He would be better advised to stay home, just let Trump have his one night stand in El Paso.
Beto is needlessly raising the stakes, giving importance to nothing more than a typical Trump stunt.
The risks for Beto outweigh the chances of a grand rhetorical victory against Trump.
19
@Richard
How is this on Trumps terms? He is in Beto’s lair.
26
@Richard
For too long, the country has let trump have his way without raising a finger. Even if O'Rourke is 'taking the bait,' he is at least standing up to the lies, bigotry, and nastiness that are the hallmarks of this president. I applaud him for taking trump on, and I hope he shines.
68
Or, maybe he recognizes an opportunity to announce his candidacy in his hometown, overshadowing the president’s attempt to mock his hometown.
19
At the conclusion of the video that Beto O'Rourke posted, it says, "We need immigration and asylum laws that match our values and the realities of the border, not a symbol of division." I would only amend this to say, "We need immigration and asylum laws that match the values we once were proud of in this country."
I really hope that news programs depict the two rallies in a split screen to illustrate the difference between lies and truth.
14
I have a novel idea -- instead of holding competing events that highlight the ever-rising political wall in America, why don't they speak to one another? Oh, but that would take political courage....better for them both to continue with these spectacles that accomplish absolutely nothing, and leave us all in the lurch....
1
Th primary purpose of the border fence is to reduce illegal immigration, not crime in U.S. cities. Customs and Border Protection data show illegal border crossings have dropped dramatically in borders area protected by the fence. This is why the Border Patrol was about 200 lilies of new fencing in heavily trafficked areas where there is no fence, primarily in Texas's Rio Grand Valley.
2
@William Case
Cite your sources.
3
I for one don't have even an moment of reserve for anyone who is seeking to stand up to Trump. I say, Beto swing away.
As for Beto, come 2020 I hope that he will have been defeated in the primaries so that he can use both his style and stash to work for America again. He should instead focus on John Cornyn's senate seat which is up for re-eleciton in 2020. We need more Senators like Beto. And if a potential Presidential bid along with an El Paso standoff against Trump better position Beto for Cornyn's seat, so be it.
But for all of you who think that Beto is the answer to Trump, please think again. He is good, he is young, and he has charisma. But he won't pull those in the middle in enough numbers to reverse our sad course of history.
That said, I hope he punches a big hole into Trump's wall tonight. I would truly delight in that.
25
Legal immigrants are good for the country. Those that are willing to follow the law and not take selfish shortcuts are good for the country.
Those that think the end justifies the means are not. And that includes the politicians that try and justify it.
Coming into this country on a tourist visa is pretty darn simple. Thousands do it every day. I fail to understand why these people feel so entitled that they can just ignore any law they wish to. How can anyone justify that as acceptable behavior?
Some countries won't allow tourists if they do not have a ticket home so they do not become a burden on society. Why should the US be any different.
3
@John F Sorry, for most of the people of the world, it is not "darn simple" to get a tourist visa for the US. It is US policy for unspecified "national security" reasons to deny most visa applications from most non-western, non-developed parts of the world. Even if lucky tourists or students with visas do have return tickets, many of them think it is worth it to just eat the very expensive return ticket in order to stay in the US and clean office buildings at midnight, or carry luggage at airports, hoping someday they will be able to get work as the university professor they used to be back home.... These visa skips are not burdens on society. They work like dogs to support their families back home. The US does require return tickets for visa holders. How can you make sure the person uses that return?
2
Brilliant. I'm heartened to see Democrats act more proactively. O'Rourke is really smart, articulate and speaks his mind... given the opportunity he can humiliate Trump like no one else has seemed to be able to do.
17
The state of American politics, summed up in one line in this article: Is Beto a big enough threat that Trump will brand him with a derogatory nickname at his rally tonight?
Facts no longer matter. Political positions and opposing positions no longer matter. The strength of a candidate is now measured by the severity and catchiness of the way the President insults them.
Clearly this is what our founding fathers were hoping for.
9
@Joanna actually, yes. Jefferson called Adams a hermaphrodite (hermaphroditcal to be precise) in their political showdown...
1
By selecting El Paso for one of his campaign rallies, President Trump has unwittingly given Mr. O'Rourke a perfect opportunity to launch his candidacy. I, for one, am hoping that he will fully capitalize on this moment when the media and primary voters are paying attention. As a democrat, I am looking for a candidate who can take on President Trump without stooping down to his level of rhetoric and name calling. I like what I have seen of Mr. O'Rourke so far, and I am hopeful that he can fill that role.
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Trump plays strongest with his base when he has a left wing opponent to square up against.
O'Rourke, meanwhile, is looking to establish image as legitimate contender by taking on Trump.
Therefore, I anticipate that this will 'benefit' both Trump and O'Rourke with their respective parties. Longer term, I have to wonder if this plays into Trump and the GOP propaganda machine's ability to vilify opposition...
1
Mr. O'Rourke is finally providing a clear eyed alternative to the tiresome, convoluted ramblings of Trump at one of his "rallies" where only true believers are admitted. Trump has gotten free, time on cable without challenging rebuttal.
By challenging Trump for media coverage Mr. O'Rourke has earned my respect for us courage in taking on a true demagogue.
I wish him well and hope that other challengers see that taking Trump's cherished media attention from him will be extremely effective.
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I see a market for a television feature that allows the viewer to block out portions of a screen.
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I look forward to this event, because typically, Mr. O' Rourke does well in public debates (in general). I simply hope the same outcome occurs. Go Beto!
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Why are there so many people who live right there in El Paso who don't know as much about the crime and dangers from immigrants in their city as Trump knows in Washington DC, 1500 miles away? How can all those people who live right there, deal with immigrants directly every day, and know what is going on day-to-day because they live it -- how can they be so uninformed while Trump knows everything there is to know, probably more than anyone else ever, about "illegal immigrants" and the problems they caused in El Paso that "the Wall" fixed? How come so many people who have lived there and been through this their whole life are wrong, and Trump is right? Why do all these people, and all the evidence, and the data and statistics all show something different than the 'truth' that Trump knows? What is wrong with the rest of the world, that this data, reality, and facts are different than what Trump knows? What is wrong with the world, that it dares to contradict Trump?
All good questions, very good questions, for our delusional president. Maybe he will answer these questions when he gives his El Paso speech.
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@Jim Brokaw I don't know but he also knows more about ISIS that the Generals and he knows more about drone technology than anyone on the planet. Oh, and he is a "stable genius".
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@joe
Trump even knows more than the U.S. Navy about launching airplanes off an aircraft carrier. He knows that steam launchers are definitely not obsolete.
2
Both Trump and O'Rourke seem naive, regarding the problem of immigration. We can't keep everyone out, and we can't let everyone in - the reasons are complex. IIt doesn't sound like either one of these politicians is willing or able to take a nuanced approach. I for one, will not be watching this circus.
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@TD I read Beto's posting on our Southern border and immigration on Medium and found it anything but naive. Its articulate, reasoned and nuanced. Try giving it a read.
https://medium.com/@BetoORourke/the-president-is-coming-to-el-paso-monday-bbd4a023c77c
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This piece asks: "What tone will O'Rourke use, fighter or healer?"
It's the same binary choice offered in another article on Democratic candidates Cory Booker and Amy Klobuchar, this choice framed as _the_ philosophical debate that Democrats must wrestle with in the upcoming election.
It might make for a catchy soundbite but I've had enough of lazy either/or propositions that have contributed to the dumbing down of America. Our world is neither that simplistic nor black and white.
I'd happily support the candidate who wants to do both: fight Trump, and heal the rift in our nation that Trump and others have exacerbated and exploited for money and power. A well-rounded Democratic candidate will embody both healing and fighting traits.
There is no reason that we should settle for less.
I'm looking forward to seeing how O'Rourke presents at his rally tonight.
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Trump will probably truck in supporters to serve as a backdrop to his usual bluster. These will be the same people who follow him around. (Question: does he pay them by the hour, as he did his initial rally claque at Trump Tower in 2015?)
Beto will get a larger audience, and have more bread-and-butter issues to discuss with his audience than feeding a titanic ego.
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Divider vs Uniter. Would love to see this same battle play out over the next 18 months. Beto reminds us of the nation we recently were, and gives us hope for the nation we could be.
Beto 2020!
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For the next year, we will have listen to Trump claim he had the bigger audience.
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@mcarpent Only because he will have...
"...whether he tries to brand him with a derogatory nickname will be measures of how seriously he takes Mr. O’Rourke’s potential candidacy." This is only a thing if the news *makes* it a thing. The news agencies need to get some integrity back and stop parroting these nicknames that the current occupant hurls at anyone who disagrees with him. Paraphrase, don't quote, his tweets. Treat them like a tantrum and relay the general sentiment without the actual content, especially when it is lies and and dog whistling. Stop embedding his tweets in your articles - link if you must, but let's not give this childishness a platform. I understand that this is how he conducts "policy", so it is important in that regard, but (again) let's get to the gist without rehashing the drama.
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The border wall and immigration crisis is a good time to jumpstart a Marshall Plan for Mexico and central America. Since most immigrants are entering the country for economic reasons it behooves us to promote prosperity in the countries they are coming from. One aspect of a Marshall Plan could be to enhance the remittances they are sending back home and to give them a reason to return home. Let's mandate a minimum wage for guest workers that is higher than the current one. Let's say, $15 an hour. Ten dollars goes to the worker and five dollars goes into that worker's IRA to provide an income when he/she returns home.
They win. We win.
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@caveman007 don’t we already DO that? Goes to corrupt politicians and their buds...
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Mr. O'Rourke holds potential as a future presidential candidate but it is utter insanity to think he is ready to assume the leader of the free world in 2020 or even 2024. Donald Trump, as measured on every skill, temperament, ethical and previous experience criteria imaginable to be worthy of the Oval Office, was never and will never be suitable for that position--EVER.
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This should be interesting. President Trump will most likely rely on inaccurate crime statistics and claims that the partial border wall in El Paso helped to greatly reduce crime. The local O'Rourke will undoubtedly paint the city of El Paso accurately as a model of peaceful international coexistence between two neighboring countries. Such a stark contrast between a message of fear, hate and isolationism versus hope, peace and mutual prosperity.
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O'Rourke is being pretty smart. While everyone else is running for president, Beto is demonstrating his values.
Folks want to align themselves with a candidate who shares their beliefs.
I've given money to my initial presidential favorite (a woman!), but could be persuaded to change my mind to Beto depending on how things shake out.
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In this paper’s recent reporting on race in Virginia politics, I was horrified to learn that one town in Virginia had once built a physical wall to further segregate the white citizens from the black citizens. I understand I am more ignorant than not, and more prejudiced than I wish I was. No disrespect to Mr. George Washington Carver, but where was this information in February public school curricula? There was also one in Detroit (below), and probably more than these two examples.
“In this 1941 photo supplied by the United States Library of Congress, children are shown standing in front of half mile concrete wall in Detroit. The wall was built with a simple aim: separate homes planned for middle-class whites from blacks who had already built small houses or owned land with plans to build in the neighborhood.” (USA Today)
It’s worth mentioning that the purpose of walls is to divide. Politicians can avoid this logical conclusion by demonstrating concern with border security. And yet everyone in the room is well aware that threats to such security are going to adapt around a wall, because there is 10 digit money in trafficking contraband into this country.
Would we be proud of boasting to the world how walls were once used to further divide and segregate our communities? A wall on the southern border is symbolic more than it is effective. It will not age well.
5
These events make for some potentially dramatic moments. But even more so, they should expose for the world to see the great divide in the battle for America's soul.
I recall Robert Kennedy once describing Richard Nixon as representing the dark side of the American spirit. Donald Trump represents that as well, but with a vulgar crudeness marked with menace and hatred.
In my humble opinion, based on observing Beto O'Rourke during his Senate campaign, he is the antidote for this dark vision of American, and more specifically, the racism and discrimination Trump uses almost casually towards people who don't have white skin.
This is yet another chapter in the battle for the soul of our country.
5
So what happens if there are incidents involving the two crowds (assuming the democrat mentioned here will have some crowd behind him)?
Let me guess, no brainer actually, it is going to be wild, uncontrolled, unreasonable Trump's supporters who yet again provoked the peaceful demonstrations in support of illegal immigration.
That aside, it's a cheap shot for that O'Rurke guy who is staging this event for the benefit of his own campaign. The more conflicting a situation, the better for him.
First, a disclosure. I have not been a religious person since my early 20s (40 years ago).
However, two weeks ago the following song, which we sang in church when I was a child, suddenly popped into my mind:
Jesus loves the little children, all the little children of the world,
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in His sight,
Jesus loves the little children of the world.
Since I haven't been to church since I was 23, I need to ask, When did Jesus abandon the Gospel of love and replace it with the gospel of Hate?
I'm guessing when Jesus immigrated to America and became a white pro-life Christian.
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Trump's event will be stage-managed and packed with hand-picked supporters who will cheer every lie and attack line. The truth, as usual, will not even have a chance to get its boots on.
That's what O'Rourke is up against; hope he's prepared.
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I am happy that Beto is standing up to Trump. How can Trump go into someone’s neighborhood and tell them what’s wrong and how to fix it? Trump has construed the presidency as an opportunity to remake America in a very vile fashion. Hatred, prejudice, environmental destruction are only a few of the words that apply to his actions. Every time that someone checks Trump, like Beto is doing, is like lighting one more candle to resist the dark world that Trump aims to foist on us. We must continue the resistance until Trump leaves office.
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To many Texans who live close to the border the main issue is commerce and trade. Therefore, the wall proposal is viewed as a constraint to commercial activity. It is noteworthy that the political representatives of the districts closest to the border oppose more wall funding and construction.
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@Austin Al
The border fence does not interfere with commerce and trade; it flows though legal ports of entry. More than one million people cross the U.S.-Mexico border every day.
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@Austin Al People there are closest to the issue. Trump ignores facts ;always. Trump only sees things through Trump glasses; what is good for Trump. Ray Sipe
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@Ray Sipe
I live most of my adult life in El Paso. I never lived more than a few blocks from the Rio Grande.
1
Mr. O'Rourke is doing us all a great favor by taking on The Con Don. He has some great democracy-building things to say.
However, it is very premature to try to promote him as our next president.
What has he actually done for 99.9% of us?
I,for one, will not vote for any Texan for president. Three since the 60s is plenty.
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Just because he is a Texan? He is an American first. I will vote for anyone who closely represents my values. Right now it is Beto and all the other Democrats over Trump, by a huge margin. And I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican.
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@njglea What had Trump done for 99.9% of us?
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@njglea
"I,for one, will not vote for any Texan for president. Three since the 60s is plenty."
Especially a corporate billionaire couple.
3