“He’s supposed to win in order to run,” the president added. “Beto was defeated.”
And Mr. Trump, you are next in line for the same comeuppance voting either in Congress ( my choice), ballot box or nominating Convention.
2
The Beto rally was less than a hundred yards from Trump's rally. The march to the adjoining baseball field next to the El Paso County Coloseum was from Bowie High School, about a mile away. I'm sure the Trump supporters could see and hear Beto's crowd. No way they could believe the president's remarks about Beto speaking to 2 or 3 hundred people. (They still cheered!)
3
Isn't the Trump reelection committee supposed to pay for the use of Air Force One when it is used for campaign purposes?
3
If he cares so much about the wall, why doesn't he just pay for it himself? After all, he has "billions and billions," doesn't he? He is clearly still relying on his big mouth and ego to intimidate people who refuse to take the bait. The reason we are seeing everyone under the sun make a bid for the next presidency is because we truly believe - if an idiot can do it, why can't anyone else?!
7
Trumps SOTU claims about El Paso have been proven to be false (lies) by multiple respected media outlets (NYT, WP, CNN). And there have been widespread reports of the people of El Paso's anger, resentment and disbelief that he made all these false claims about their home.
So if Trump had a brain WHY would he go to El Paso to ramble on again for 1 hour 15 mins about "His Wall"? My take away is remember what the former Exxon CEO said about the Donald. I think he had it about right on.
2
The Democrats do not want a wall as long as President Trump is in office. It is all about their intense hatred for our president. The Democrats once upon a time wanted a wall but not since President Trump entered office. They want open borders and no limit as to the numbers who enter illegally. They have no interest in America's safety and security just about admitting vast amounts of illegal immigrants with absolutely no control.
Many Americans want some kind of border security and voted for Donald Trump because he made this one of his campaign promises. Those in attendance at President Trump's rally yesterday are pleased with their wall and support continued wall building. The Democrats do not want any kind of border protection and never will. They will lose this one.
Well, almost none of that is true, but don’t let that stop you or your president.
1
I never thought I would grow to admire and envy the Italian political system.
1
at the risk of sounding like a broken record (remember those?), I ask again: when he President consistently says things that are demonstrably false, which is worse for the country - if the statements are untrue but he delusionally believes them to be true, or if he knows as he says these things that they are lies, but he intentionally says them anyway? is it better to have a delusional fruitcake in office, or just an unrepentant liar who will say and do anything he believes will further his own objectives? only Article 25 can resolve this question.
1
"The president said he had had the option of receiving a briefing on the negotiations or going on camera.
“It was between the deal and you, and I had to choose you,” Mr. Trump said."
Why, it's almost as if he would rather bask in the glow of a friendly TV channel than actually do the job of governing.
5
@J He wouldn’t be able to process the info from the briefing.
1
I am completely baffled as to why anyone would subject themselves to the assault on the senses, not to mention humanity and decency, that is a Trump rally.
3
When I learned that El Paso has about the same population size as Boston, I was astounded. I remember El Paso from the late 70's, where the place was more of a town than a city, more like a truck stop than a town. Some motels, a handful of gas stations and the main 'stadium' sized venue was an arena used for trading cattle. El Paso has one large university, UTEP. Boston has the Garden (Now the TD Bank Center), MIT, BC, BU, Harvard, Northeastern, Berklee College of Music, Tufts, Emerson, etc. Boston has Mass General, Brigham & Women’s Hospital, etc. Professional sports? El Paso has nada, Boston has the Sox, the Pats, the Bruins and the Celtics. So what brings people to El Paso? The federal government. Fort Bliss (one of the largest military complexes of the United State Army), William Beaumont Army Medical Center, Biggs Army Airfield, the DEA domestic field division 7, El Paso Intelligence Center, Joint Task Force North, United States Border Patrol El Paso Sector, and the U.S. Border Patrol Special Operations Group (SOG). Boston played a significant role in the founding of our country. My conclusion: El Paso is a government encampment the size of Boston.
1
El Paso is also a major trading port city and, lately, prop for the President's false narrative in favor of his appeal-to-the-base wall.
3
In the face of facts trump resorts to name calling, isn't that what 5 year olds do.
5
Trump's wall is an ineffective solution to what really should be a secondary or even tertiary concern. Much greater concerns facing the U.S. are issues like Climate Change, Income Inequality, Healthcare cost , Federal Debt/Deficit. The shutdown/wall debacle is a circus created to distract the general public from the real issues.
4
Here's what Trump was supposed to do in El Paso, but of course, didn't:
Visit Ft. Bliss, home of the Army's Air and Missile Defense Command. By land mass, Ft. Bliss is the Army's second largest base.
Cross the border into Juarez to visit the large US-company manufacturing plants in the maquiladoras free-trade zone, which enrich the regional economy.
Rather than supporting the people who actually do the work, Trump prefers to pander to the know-nothings who praise his self-proclaimed glory. Fortunately for everyone, he only fooled a relatively few number of El Paso residents on this trip.
7
Where is the cry for Trump to own up to his properties' hiring undocumented workers. How many undocumented would risk crossing this harsh, barren landscape; allow human traffickers to risk their charges' lives in enclosed cargo containers baking in the southwestern sun, only to be delivered to inhuman working conditions on unregulated farms, or, worse, and sex trade; and our new and expansive family separation policies if there was not an enabling company willing to illegally hire said undocumented, then shirking paying what they owe knowing full well their charges will not, cannot speak up for fear of retaliation. How about it Mr. Trump? Can you say "Polish construction workers, or housekeepers at your properties?" The worst people are those hypocrites who decry everyone else's sins while glossing over their own.
3
if there's one thing President Trump has (and needs), it's plenty of gloss. America, however, needs more than hairspray.
1
Mark & Simon: Overall a good article on the distance between Trump, right-wing Ken Paxton and Beto O'Rourke. I will say your New Yorker sunglasses blur your vision however, when you state "Among lawmakers who represent border districts, there is remarkably little support for a wall." NOT remarkable to Texans. If you lived in Texas as I do, did not belong to the cult of Ken Paxton & Greg Abbott, you would understand this is a silly statement. Understand, if you can, that border government officials and Mayors--Republican AND Democrat, are against a wall. Understanding they-have a more local and accurate reading of the situation, better than right-wing officials in Austiin OR Washington, then local opposition is not remarkable at all.. Trump threatens all hispanics (40% of our state) each and every time he speaks of immigrants and the thugs rapists and thieves from Latin America. Millions of hispanics in this here state, and all they hear from Washington is threats to split more hispanic families permanently apart. No presumption of innocence. Simply declarations they're despicable people. America needs a more accurate depiction of the millions of hard-working honest IMMIGRANTS seeking "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
5
so right. local officials, moreover, are most immediately responsible to local property owners facing confiscation of their property through eminent domain for construction of a border wall, fence, slatted screen, or room divider.
It is beyond doubt that those believing Trump's lies about El Paso, TX, are willingly ignorant and simply follow Trump as though he were a religious deity. Such persons are incapable of rational thought because they willingly ignore empirical facts.
It is this mindset, sadly there are such person in all political parties, that imperils democratic republics. Without all persons agreeing to accept empirical fact, our nation will fail.
4
My taxes tripled this year and Mr Trump uses taxpayers money to spread his lies about the border wall security, I am truly tired of this president.
7
When you talk about the fan's capacity, it should be limited to their emotional capacity for hate, revenge and lack of empathy.
If they were handing out old Sobibor uniforms at the gate, the sympathetic crowd would have been screaming even louder.
They will always be the victims no matter how many men, women and children are in their cages.
1
I think Trump should be allowed to build the wall - but first, he should get the funding from Mexico up front.
4
The greatest threat to our nation's well being is not the egotistical lunatic that calls itself POTUS. Rather, it is his supporters. They are vicious, violent, and represent some 30 to 40 percent of American voters. In my mind, rises a question. If trump were gone, by whatever means, what would become of them?
3
Ken Paxton! Please, please, please let your readers know all about Ken Paxton. Paxton’s true claim to fame is that he is actually slimier than Trump. I know, right? Paxton is Trump, but smart. He also won re-election while under criminal indictment. His wife, Angela, was recently elected to a position where she could pardon him in the unlikely event he is ever brought to trial, and found guilty. Every time he opens his mouth, he is either lying, dividing, or deflecting. Paxton blew the dog whistle that summoned Trump to El Paso. He knows the trope, he knows how to use it.
5
So, he chooses to do a "media" interview with a fellow wing nut rather than get a briefing on a significant matter of governance that affects the lives of 320,000,000 people. Show that the man is in no way a president. He is a brain-challenged con man, and I think I'm being quite generous in that assessment. What gives with the 36-40%???
2
Why are our taxes going for trump 2020 campaign rallies?
4
The only wall we need is one around Trump himself, namely a prison wall. Then we can feel a little safer from the enemy: Trump!
4
This NY Times story did not report the assault of a BBC newsperson during the rally by Trump's mob.
https://www.vox.com/2019/2/12/18221640/bbc-cameraman-attacked-trump-rally-el-paso
2
The insects are disappearing. The polar ice caps are melting. Fires rampage through California. Floods in Texas. Refugees all over the world fleeing violence and famine. And all we can talk about is a stupid wall.
4
Hate-mongers like Mr. Trump never let facts get in their way.
6
I wish the President well. I also give a shout out to Mr. O'rourke. I think he is well spoken and thoughtful.
Until Beto gets his act together, I think he needs to avoid the spotlight though.
One suggestion to Beto.......switch parties. The DNC Political MAchine confines Beto to a narrow agenda that will prevent him from reaching his potential. Switching parties is a very Texan thing to do, by the way. Rick Perry did it......one time Al Gore partisan, now Super Wahoo Texas Republican. John Connally, same difference. Its Texas, Beto...........not some fruitcake DNC guilt trip......
Take on John Cornyn, kick him out of the Senate first..........Cornyn is nuthin but a lame Bush Minion....and Bush was a poor excuse for a Texan anyway.
Another "daddy needs love rally" (quote courtesy of Bill Maher). Nothing here to see except a liar surrounded by his sycophants.
1
No one on either side of this Wall Issue uses facts. There's no objective rational thought, only emotional reaction based on decades of Mexican propaganda, US propaganda, DNC guilt trippin, GOP bluster.
#1...The border region was NEVER part of Mexico, a contrived nation magically created in 1821....and which then immediately fell apart into regional war-lords all competing to become King of Mexico or Presidente or Generalisimo.
#2...Mexico remained in anarchy for 40 years, until the French took advantage of the US Civil War and conquered Mexico. Once the Civil War ended, the Mexicans shot Maximillian and went back to anarchy....finally pulled out of the mess by Porfirio Diaz, Dictator(naturally) who invited the Norteamericanos in to modernize Mexico. RRs, Steel Mills, Oil Fields, Copper Mines, prosperity. But the Catholic Church was not to be bested, and worked actively to forment challenges to Diaz...and soon Mexico was back into chaos.
#3....Nearly 20% of all Mexicans were killed 1900-1930...thats how bad it got. finally, after Trotsky is killed in Mexico City, Crime Boss Pancho Villa gunned down in Durango, Zapata long gone...the PRI emerges....and for the next 30 years or so(circa 1970s) Mexico is stable.....poor, unhealthy, uneducated....but stable.
#4....1980s....the genius of the Reagan Admin is unveiled...NAFTA...immediately the Bush-Clinton Axis of Evil sabotages it... jobs and money go to China instead ..The Drug Empires begin a new period of chaos........
"Mr. Trump dismissed those who disputed his facts about the wall, saying the mayor of El Paso was “full of crap,” even if he was a Republican."
So he's telling me that a man who has lived in a city longer than Trump has knows less about the city? So much for being a stable genius he claims to be.
1
A president calling a mayor "full of crap" says more about the president than it does about the mayor.
3
Beto - and so many others - are part of the "Clinton Plan", to get the nomination in 2020.
Last August, the Democratic Party "de-powered" the superdelegates by changing the rules to prevent them from voting on the first ballot of a contested national. Of course, with the mob of carbon-copy candidates the Democratic Party is cranking out now, it is very likely that there will not only be a contested convention, but far more than one ballot.
Clinton has been running a political organization called Onward Together, a 501(c)4, which she started in April of 2017. So we can expect her to jump in, spouting her "I really won fantasy", and grab the nomination'
In effect, Clinton will grabbing the nomination by standing on the shoulders of both Beto, and Mueller - whose job has been fabricating the basis for the "I really won" fantasy.
If Beto wasn't part of Clinton's plan, she would have annihilated him already. But once the voting starts, expect the resurgent "Hillary" to bat him about, the way a cat plays with a mouse.
All of this will be a disaster for our country. In 2016 Trump won with only 10% of the money that Clinton had, and no real organization at all. Now Trump has money, organization, and "experience". In 2020, Trump will as dangerous a candidate, as he is a President; which is to say, very, very dangerous.
Neither Clinton, nor any of the Beto-types, will have a chance against him. A real candidate is a must.
2
President Trump's El Paso rally was carried on CSPAN which was attended by thousands of Texans inside the stadium and many more watching on wide screen televisions outside. The number of those in attendance at Beto O'Rourke's rally was far smaller according to reports. The Texans were obviously more interested in hearing about the necessity of a border wall and other important issues from our president than hearing about propaganda from Mr. O'Rourke.
The thousands were in strong agreement with President Trump and gave him their full support. They were ecstatic when he spoke and certainly like our president. This is his base and are with him 100 percent. They want that border wall for security reasons and are very pleased with the state of the economy and other accomplishments that President Trump promised and has delivered.
I watched the rally on TV and he held his captive audience the entire time. I only wished I had been one of those thousands in the audience. I was at least there in spirit and he has my support too. I think he will be reelected and continue to make America great. This is what America wants.
1
@WPLMMT
El Paso police report that Trump's crowd, inside the arena and outside, was 10,000. They also report that the crowd at Beto O'Rourke's rally was 10-15,000.
So when you say Beto's crowd was "far smaller" you really mean "bigger," right?
2
So if you think about the shape of this claim about Trump’s rally, you have a close-packed central stalk with a sort of umbrella at the top.
Ah. I get it. He’s bragging about the mushroom.
1
"where the president spoke to thousands of cheering supporters."
Any news outlet that reports this needs to start giving us the actual number of "cheering supporters." Was it 2,000? Or 20,000? Also, photos of the crowds should not be cropped: give us a view of the entire venue.
We need accuracy.
4
The actors in this melodrama who are rarely spoken about are employers who hire undocumented immigrants. It seems to me that these individuals are an enormous part of the problem. The unwillingness or inability of government agencies to police and/ or regulate this side of the equation is something that needs to be corrected. Apparently, there is a need for many of these workers. Just ask California farmers who desperately need people who will do the “ bend and stoop” tasks that Americans refuse to do.
I don’t know if the US makes use of Guest Worker programs to fill these jobs. If not, they should. It would be beneficial for all concerned. Immigration reform has many faces; fences are part of it, but so are well intentioned, creative solutions that welcome hard working people. Your crisp, green broccoli was picked in California by migrant workers. I have a lot of time for those people.
1
No wall until either Trump or Mexico pay for it. The use of US taxpayer funds for constructing this monument to racism would undoubtably lead to a tax strike by all people of conscience.
3
Trump is a sad and very confused old man.
1) Mexico will pay for the wall.
2) Taxpayers will pay for the wall.
3) The Defense Dept to build the wall.
4) It's not a wall, it's a slatted steel fence.
5) Taxpayers will pay for the steel slatted fence.
6) It's back to a wall.
7) Declare a national emergency to build the wall.
8) We already have built a lot of the wall.
9) Finish the wall, not build the Wall.
10) Today we started building the wall on the Rio Grande
2
Violent crime actually declined for years in this vibrant immigrant city across the river from Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, before the Army Corps of Engineers began building a fence in 2008.
2008 was well before Trump and his wall obsession. One has to wonder then why even any wall in El Paso was built at all. This smacks of classic government waste and abuse of power and needs to be investigated Robert Mueller. For that matter, why are there any walls anywhere along the border other than the ones to keep the cows in?
1
I don’t understand how it’s legal to use my federal taxpayer money for Trump to take a campaign trip for his own self interests in building up his base of supporters when he uses that campaign trip to denigrate, call names and spread lies about my political party, a Democrat. Shouldn’t he use his own campaign funds when he takes trips on Airforce One to make speeches that criticize at least half the nation? Whether it’s overseas or visiting a military base, or a rally, he should spend his own money, not mine if he chooses to use the trips as political leverage against half the country.
35
They take tax money to pay for illegals.....
1
Now let’s talk about all those trips Obama made on AF One to Hawaii every Christmas. The total cost of all his personal junkets came to around eighty-five million for his years in office.
1
Trump and many people are right about one critican fact: the world is overpopulated and "Open Borders" deals with the short term problem / people, not the long term demographic and ecological catastrophe that we are unwilling to face.
The Earth and its resources are finite. Nature doesn't care about our compassion, pain or happiness. If we "overgraze' the land and use up the resources, our future and our children will pay the piper (a profound fable, The Piper of Hamlin, about people who didn't pay their debts for living in a healthy environment so they lost their children.)
The few thousands of desperate people at the border are the few immediate faces of the BILLIONS of desperate, starving, uneducated, govt failed faces , just over the horizon.
We should be helping people in failed cultures and countries with better education, ecological facts, family planning. Spending and borrowing wildly for consumer goods brings on the ecological transition faster. Sadly the Four Horsemen's noisy hooves are heard in many parts of the world since living in harmony/ balance with the land is an abstract concept. We spend all our time dealing with symptoms, social issues, and fail to see the key ecological concerns that will dramatically change our world, at least the world of our children.
Last comment: China's great economic strength has been based on the one child policy. Forced ecology. Still millions of Chinese want to emigrate. The world is over crowded!!!
9
El Paso is a special case. The border has always been fluid with people commuting back and forth for decades. Moreover, border towns although not glamorous were relatively safe places. The situation has changed & the U.S needs to institute controls that will curb the criminal drug problem and the illegal transit/work problems. There has been no political will to deal effectively with these issues. A border wall is just window dressing. A country needs its border or it will exist in name only. If employers need workers and workers need jobs Congress needs to move and COMPROMISE to avoid further trouble. Just forget Trump--that's a no-brainer.
Even the statistics showing a reduction in the number of illegal aliens is misleading. A substantial--perhaps even large--percent of those were workers who lived in Juarez, had no green card but worked in El Paso. The worked in restaurants, in construction, as gardeners and landscaper and as cooks, nurses and nannys.
Am I a dependable source? Although not a native, I've lived in El Paso since September, 1970. I certainly know more about my home than does Donald Trump, and I have to reason (Political or otherwise) to lie about it.
77
The article says, "With a flair for political theater that even Mr. Trump took note of, Mr. O’Rourke addressed a crowd less than a mile from the El Paso County Coliseum, where the president spoke to thousands of cheering supporters."
WE THE PEOPLE are sick to death of "political theater". I want to know what these "actors" plan to do to help US restore/preserve democracy in OUR United States of America.
The media might love a "show' but this is VERY serious business. As serious as any since WWII ended. Time to grow up and stop the junior high school "popularity" contests.
I want to know what Mr. O'Rourke's REAL plans are and Idon't want to go to his website to find out. I want reporters to do some real work and DIG. Is he just another Texas BIG oil boy with good looks and oratorical skills or does he actually have something substantial to offer OUR democracy?
9
El Paso is a quiet small town with the population of a big city. Mostly Mexican families happy to go to work and then go home to their families. Friendly and relaxing culture, good place to call home. I feel safe walking alone at night nearly everywhere (middle aged woman).
And there is naturally occurring lithium in the water.
101
As a border dweller, I find it despicable that any politician of whatever ideological stripe, would push the nonsense that a wall is helpful for border security. There is no evidence that Clinton's wall in the 1990s, Bush's wall in 2006-2009, and now Trump's wall (if it is ever built) will work. The GAO has asked the DHS to conduct an empirical analysis as to what works most effectively: boots on the ground, technological surveillance, or barrier infrastructure. No one, not one person from DHS, has yet to prove whether any of it is effective. There is no standard to measure border security effectiveness! Yet, the wall is pushed as a solution by demagogues who haven't a clue as to what is effective. What about other options such as helping (rather than hindering) the economic development of our Central American and Mexican neighbors? What about curbing US illegal drug consumption? Why isn't the USA treating illicit drug consumption as an illness rather than making these toxic drugs illegal, imprisoning users, and raising prices? Instead, we have a series of blowhards on parade, one after another, year after year. Stop funding corporations who have their hand in the US taxpayer's pocket to fund such nonsense as the border wall! And mostly, please, stop destroying the people dwelling on the border for cheap political stunts! We're sick and tired of it.
182
@Terry Garrett Probably more constructive solution would be for US to invade Honduras and Guatamala......overthrow the existing corrupt governments, hunt down the Drug Lords and make these places officially US Territory, run the American Way. Hondurans and Guatamalans have for decades demonstated that they do not know how to run a stable society. The worst thing the USA has done has been to whip a giant guilt trip on ourselves and Abandon these places that desparately need our help.
If we dont do it............the Chinese Army will.
1
@Wherever Hugo
Your take is also my take.
The source of the caravans needs attention.
Stop the social forces that lead to citizens fleeing their plight.
Not via USA money, which will disappear through corrupt channels, but with essentially an USA military effort to remove the drug lords, cartels and sources of terror that is driving citizens to flee. It seems the governments in charge are either unwilling, complicit, or incapable of wiping out the malevolent forces that are causing the mass migration northward.
USA invasive military action is a much better spent dollar than a wall.
1
@Wherever Hugo
Maybe treat yourself to some history of the US destabilizing these countries and supporting dictators. Trump is an imbecile on these matters and apparently has no ambassadors to fill in.
10
Why is the Times not giving an estimate on crowd size? i want to know how many Beto drew.
11
@Doctor Woo Thanks for your comment. I’ve forwarded it to the editors. Generally in our news sections, we avoid estimating crowd sizes because we don’t want to publish inaccurate information. Sometimes, we will use numbers put out by official sources, though even those can be inexact, as we’ve noted before: https://nyti.ms/2TJIznX. Thanks again for reading.
@Aidan Gardiner
DT's solution to the problem of "inaccurate information":
Describe in words and not in numbers-- eg "my crowd was overwhelming, as usual ( because I am very rich and, by the way, that is not disgusting,! )
Let me add, it was particularly overwhelming to low energy Beto.
How big were the crowds at each of the rallies? Anybody count them?
7
@Ian I did not attend the BETO rally, but this morning the reports note that probably 6500 were inside for Trump with maybe a couple of thousand outside...the fire code limited the inside crowd. Estimates of the BETO rally were comparable by police estimates. Not sure of the exact numbers but BETO's numbers were close.
Early in the evening as the event was approaching I was having a drink with a friend and some young women came into the bar all excited about Trump and observed that 75,000 were showing up...amazing!
Check out THE TEXAS TRIBUNE and the THE TEXAS OBSERVER for information.
5
NYT should know.
@Ian
Beto had two people. Trump had 47 billion.
2
Does Trump use Air Force One to fly to these so-called "rallies"? If so, as a US taxpayer, I object. These events have absolutely nothing to do with governance.
22
I firmly believe Trump has made his positions clear. The acronyms emblazoned on his supporters hats and posters are perfectly apt. MAGA and KAG: "Make America Grim Again" and "Keep America Galvanized"
5
Fact checking? The crime rate in El Paso began dropping when border patrol lined the banks of the river with patrol vehicles slowing the influx before the permanent wall was built. After building the wall bumper to bumper vehicles and officers was no longer necessary.
This sort of fact checking is parsimonious poppycock...a false narrative to encourage wide open borders.
2
Where was the coverage of O’Rourkes rally? More free air time for trump.
10
a ticket with biden and beto. B squared. has a nice ring to it.
4
@Angela - I liked that idea until I found out that Biden was collecting money promoting a Republican candidate.
1
I'm saddened that newspapers like yours continue to normalize this moment. Reporting about this (so-called) man in the White House as just another president encourages this horror and quells the type of national and universal dissent that is necessary to turn the tide. Wake up people. This country has been taken over by a dangerous, ignorant, malignant hate-monger on a virulently racist, dictatorial mission. Anyone who is sitting back and watching this show (or reporting on it as it's another day in Washington) is doing so at their peril.
11
" full of crap ". From Trump, the crapmeister extraordinarie. The mind reels, the stomach turns.
24
Mr. Trump dismissed those who disputed his facts about the wall, saying the mayor of El Paso was “full of crap,”
How eloquent, Mr. president. For good measure, you might have added he was “a big doody-head”.
18
In spite of the visit from the idiot that is the president, El Paso remains one of the safest and diverse cities in the US. There is nothing that this man stands for that is worth supporting. I am not for "open borders" but I am in favor of applying information and common sense to addressing what is certainly a broken immigration system. In a recent movie or tv show I watched one of the characters noted to another: "Your intelligence is a gift...your ignorance is a choice". If I am to take His Orangeness at his word...then certainly the observation fits.
10
I am sick and tired of being represented by not only a liar but a person who resorts to name calling or using a phrase in reference to the mayor of El Paso as, "full of crap." Trump lacks the ability for intelligent discourse. The thought of him speaking to foreign leaders in private is chilling since his public antics are repugnant.
19
"He repeated grisly stories of violent crimes committed by illegal immigrants" I noticed he hasn't done or said anything about MS13 or the other gangs he runs his mouth about. They likely have him in their pocket.
3
Corporate power, mainly US corporate power, has ruled South and Central America for years through essentially a form of gunboat diplomacy. Our government has favored right wing groups in these countries for years leading to the dictatorships in Chile, Argentina, Guatemala, Honduras etc. One result has been to repress any real formof representative government, democracy, to come into existence. And that is one of the primary reasons for the flood of desperate immigrants we see today.
9
I saw a shot on TV of a man in a maga hat with another one on his belt at tRumps ElPaso rally. Was he buying hats, selling hats or giving them away?
Do these rallies have a booth to get hats or do they give them away to make sure the clones all look the same?
7
And if Trump gives the hats away, who pays for them? the taxpayers?
4
Why can’t we get some journalists out there with drone cameras?!! Seriously why not? I’ve been to a Trump rally and the line filled an entire stadium parking lot. From what I have seen on Twitter it looks like 25k outside of Trump’s rally. (See don jr.s Twitter ) So that is in addition to the 6,500 inside. Beto’s looked pretty large too - but I’m hearing a wide range of numbers ranging from 5,000 to 15,000 and suspiciously no good pics to show it?? On Twitter ppl who were there were saying 4 k max. Where is the honest journalism on this? Ya it’s “crowd size” which the media loves to make fun of Trump for caring about - but it is actually interesting and it is actually news. Where is the unbiased non-opinion reporting on this? This alone makes me suspicious of MSMs agenda
4
Trump is creating the wall. He is doing this by turning the US into a vindictive, racist, xenophobic, anti-intellectual, medieval theocratic (thanks Mr. Pence), gun-toting, environmental cesspool, climate change denying society. Who, in their right mind would want to come? Mr. Trump you are the wall. Before long, if you and the Republicans stay in power, it will be necessary to build a real wall to keep US citizens from leaving the country. The same type of wall that was needed by your buddy Putin and his friends in East Berlin to keep Germans from leaving for the west.
14
Re the many lies Trump had told and is telling, most recently about El Paso: We forget Himmler, Goering, and the “Big Lie” strategies of Hitler and his other henchmen.
Are we experiencing the same now out of our own White House? If so, who besides Sarah Sanders and Kellyanne Conway are organizing this newer Big Lie campaign?
Journalists, most of them anyhow, are doing their best to fact check and provide the truth, but should somebody be looking at the larger picture and strategy, to determine who is leading, or at least aiding and abetting this strategy?
6
It would be wonderful if the NYT would do an unbiased in-depth news report on the advantages of building a wall. But then this does not fit into its agenda or the agenda of its readers, unless of course the report is biased.
2
Come ON, New York Times. Trump lied repeatedly throughout the night.
When you frame an article like this, an unknowing reader would think there’s simply a disagreement of opinion. Call. Out. His. Lies.
12
See the fact check story.
Beto O'Rourke is a down-to-Earth, speak from the heart statesman.
Trump is an embarrassment, considered an easily manipulated buffoon worldwide.
9
Why build a wall? Why not a pyramid, the top encased in gold with a giant TRUMP logo emblazoned there? After all, that’s what the pharaohs did. Build it on the border. It’s sheer size might intimidate all those bloodthirsty illegals and it would be a more appropriate vanity project than just a mere thousand mile wall. It would also give his base a powerful symbol of their god to worship.
6
No different than the German Bund rallies in the US before WW II, Fact that these brain dead devotees were chanting "Lock Her Up" along with Trump tells you what kind of rally it was. Next time maybe they will chant "we love Kim Jung Un" along with Trump.
Need for the wall based on facts would be unimportant to these folks.
Disgusting!
6
As usual, Trump inflates his crowd size numbers. Although Trump touted that 69,000 signed up to attend and that 10,000 were in attendance, the El Paso Times reports that the Coliseum holds 6,500 and no one was cheering outside watching the big screens. See https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/2019/02/11/trump-el-paso-rally-how-many-attended-president-speech/2844138002/
4
I think the President was "sand bagged" by Texas AG Paxton who falsely told him that El Paso was a very high crime area and the wall was largely responsible for the reduction in crime that El Paso once may have had. Statistics indicate the declined in crime in El Paso happened before the wall was built. I was in El Paso in the summer of 1969 and while there I visited Juarez, Mexico. Juarez was horrible and appeared dangerous back then and may still be. I was young and fit and in the US Air Force at the time but soon realized I was really not safe and quickly went back to El Paso where I considered it safe. Getting back to the El Paso wall and whether or not it helps with regard to safety and stemming illegal immigration. I think the El Paso wall helps because walls always help to protect the people who built them. That is what walls and barriers are for. That is largely there purpose. I think that pollsters should take a poll in El Paso and simply ask if El Paso residents would approve of taking down the present wall between El Paso and Mexico so it could be moved to a place where it would do some good.
2
@NYChap
Paxton has actually been indicted for fraud.
So perhaps he was looking in the mirror .
You could NOT make this stuff up.
1
@Kay Johnson - My comment was giving an explanation on why Trump got it so wrong which I believe is accurate based on the research I did. I'm disappointed that Trump did not have every single word in his State of the Union fact checked, but such is life. However, I see that you just could make a comment without taking an unverifiable shot at Trump. That seems to be the trend in the NYT comment section.
It's sometime easy to forget that Trump lies as he breathes. This will be a major issue for any candidate running against him in 2020. The lies are accepted by all, media included, as part of his dna. As the endless shoulder shrugging over Trump's excerable behavior continues, it seems accountability remains a hopeless dream.
We can all be sure, however, if a Democrat candidate so much as blinks at the wrong moment, not only will Trump be all over them like a bad rash, so will media. This blatant, and shocking false equivalence permeates throughout American politics, and is irresponsibly legitimized by those entrusted to report the news. Unquestionably, this is one of Trump's stronger weapons in his arsenal and gives him a major advantage over his adversaries.
Be it O'Rourke, Harris, Klobuchar et al, going mano a mano with Trump is a futile exercise. The press and conservative voters have already ruled on Trump's immorality, and he is cleared to sink even lower in his quest to retain power (and the attendant corruption it brings). Not so for Democrats.
The question is: does America want to bathe in Trump's medieval xenophobic bigotry or live up to its reputation as a defender of global democracy and freedom?
And are Americans really ok with being lied to, day after day after day?
What a mess.
6
I suggest that every 10 feet of the wall be emblazoned with the word “Trump.“ A reminder to the world of the folly of one man. Some day a real leader will come along and say “Mr. President tear down this wall.“
4
Why does the leader of the free world keep lying about immigration? As he said, "Is there any more fun place to be than a Trump rally?" He thinks this is fun, a real game changer from actually governing, and the crowds are still there for him, even knowing it is mostly hyperbole and falsehoods. They, obviously, don't want to know the truth or care about the truth. They are content to wallow in craven self pity for their loss of power and prestige, just because we are white. Even Jesus asked, "Do you want to be healed?", recognizing there are those who like their victim status and would rather stay there than do what it takes to become more whole. My biggest concern is the children being raised to fear and hate, anyone and anything different from themselves. It is wrong. Those who can't love their brother, don't know God, as God is love. The day of reckoning will come. Justice will be served. It will be far worse for those who mislead these little ones. Actually, it would be better for them if 'a millstone be tied around their necks and be thrown into the sea'.
6
@GraceNeeded...... ."Why does the leader of the free world keep lying about immigration?...Because it feeds the xenophobia and racism of his base.
2
@GraceNeeded - Immigration is the wrong term, illegal-immigration is the correct term, or here in Canada, the term our government prefers, irregular immigrants. Immigrants enter a country by a legal process not simply walking in.
1
This takes the place of his claim that former President Obama wasn't born in America.
Apparently, Trump can't "succeed" in anything without committing fraud.
5
Ms. Harris said Mr. Trump’s efforts to curb immigration was an affront to her son, who crossed the border illegally as a child. Later, he attended high school in El Paso and joined the Army.
“My son sacrificed for this country, and this is how he’s treated? How we are treated?” Ms. Harris said in Spanish.
--------------------Said in Spanish, after HOW many years here? Enough to have a grown son at age 60. She'd be more convincing if she'd spoken in English. And weren't basically advocating yet another amnesty, because at some point she and her son managed to "get legal" (possibly through marriage, given her last name).
2
Looks like the us army already gave them amnesty.
2
Mark Morgan, Obama’s Chief of the Border Patrol, strongly supports a wall, fencing, and increasing the capacity of
ICE to hold people here illegally her who been convicted or charged with crimes other than crossing the border. Why aren’t politicians or the media listening to the people who we hire to protect us?
3
Listening to US citizens struggle to accept Trump and his supporters is heartbreaking. Yes he is a sleazy manipulative man but he’s been elected by the American voting system.
2
@Jo Ann. We universally reject a pathological liar and very possibly a criminal who has done nothing but tear this country apart. Who would support that?
7
@Clearwater
It seems he is not universally rejected unfortunately and that is why the situation is so heartbreaking for you and the rest of the Clearwater world.
1
ok, if Beto (who?) is correct, immigrants pose no threat. Ok, cool. Let them apply for visas, legally, like every European and Asian immigrant does.
Yes to legal immigration.
The fence causes no harm, but seems to cause apoplectic responses which hold no logic.
1
@Joe Yoh....The fence causes no harm,....You are wrong. Trump has made "build the Wall" into a monument to racism. Fence yes, wall no.
@Joe Yoh
Would you welcome a wall across Brooklyn??
Really- you think no one would get mad at some outsider like Trump who doesnt know his head from a hole in the wall making up vast amounts of lies to get himself re-elected?
I doubt it.
1
Bill Kristol, an economic conservative who is intelligent enough to see our current president as a clear and present danger to the republic, nailed the situation with brevity a couple weeks ago.
Kristol said that Trump does not want a wall. He wants an issue.
After seeing his snake oil to rubes rally in El Paso, I say to Kristol: Boom!
6
The first sentence is a false narrative. This is not a wall “with Mexico” which implies that Mexico is enthusiastically and financially supporting it. This is a wall AGAINST Mexico, and apparently all of Latin America as DJT later stated.
3
Donald Trump is not exercising free speech, he is inciting to riot.
6
Yet another irony - Trump spews fear and hate against these immigrants who are all "violent and dangerous," while the refugees and immigrants are seeking sanctuary to escape the violence and danger in their own countries. And, by the way, refuge is exactly what the Statue of Liberty promises. Another fear mongering con. Ask Trump whether the undocumented immigrants in his golf resorts were violent.
As to this article, most of it talks about Trump's rally, there is no mention of the Beto rally attendance, leaving the impression, with no facts, that few people showed up. If so, just say so, otherwise the reporting seems biased. And please correct the statement that the crime rate among immigrants "is no higher" than among native born residents. In fact the crime rate among immigrants is lower. This is bad reporting.
5
Once again, the "president" is out holding a rally and loudly lying to his base and the American people. There is no argument for stealing private property and building this wall that he proposes. Past statements by him and others in his circle prove that even he doesn't believe in a wall. This is nothing more than an easy to remember sound bite to shout out at his rallies. This "president" loves his rallies and is daily frustrated by the realities of governing and building consensus. The one major flaw in our system is that we have to endure this person for a full four years before more reasonable minds can prevail. Good for Beto O'Rourke for holding his rally to counter the loud nonsense speak coming from the "president."
4
Why didn't the NY Times mention Beto had very few people at his rally and Trump filled the arena and people were outside too?
Because the mainstream media is desperate to change the narrative that most Americans already hold, that we do indeed want a wall. It's not a discrimination thing either. It's just we want to control our border. What is so hard to understand about that?
I'm an independent voter who has mostly voted Democrat in the past. But I am passed that now and never will as long as they keep advocating for lose border enforcement.
5
"Trump filled an arena.....bla bla.."
Mean spirited people love a hate fest......that we know.
Beto needs more work and less grandstanding. One could say that for Trump, as well.
So Ken Paxton is the source of the lie about the safety, or lack thereof, of a stroll around El Paso. Paxton, the Attorney General here in Texas, has been under indictment for felony fraud. His trial has been postponed time and again, not due to any evidence of innocence, but largely because of a pay as a result of the miserly hourly pay rate the state was willing to pay the prosecutors.
If the fraud of what Paxton put in Trump's ear is any evidence, his innocence in his felony suit is much in doubt.
But this is the state of affairs in Texas politics, folk. And when I say "Texas politics" I mean Republican day-to-day interactions.
6
Probably the best thing Trump has done by his low-life approach to leadership is highlight what is wrong with America, which is contrasted by Democratic candidates who highlight what is right with America and what we need to do to correct our faults. What we must understand is that every Democratic candidate has something valid to add to the discussion and whoever comes out on top will likely represent the rest. This is not about one person versus all, it's about one person representing all.
14
Why do we pay for presidential trips that have no purpose other than politicizing and dividing the nation? Trump was on the front line criticizing Obama for any use of Air Force One that involved any type of rally event. If it was bad then, why is it okay, especially by a president that abuses the use of taxpayer equipment?
I do not remember when this egotistic abuse of tax dollars started and I am living through my 13th president. Nor do I remember when my party of fiscal conservatives became drunken sailors on liberty when it comes to use of tax funds.
Unless we are native American, we all are some iteration of immigrants to the US. What if our fore fathers had been met by a wall? What would this nation be today?
It is time for those opposed to Trump's ideas to remind him of all the Scottish and German immigrants who came here and committed crimes, no matter how small a number they were. Had we had better immigration standards when his people immigrated, perhaps we would have a nation not so divided.
18
" Beto" will announce his candidacy by the end of February.
This rally proves he's made up his mind.
Plus he's already got Trump attacking him personally....good publicity.
This Democratic race is beginning to get interesting....probably at least 12 serious candidates eventually.
In this era of 'politics as entertainment', I was beginning to get bored with 'All Trump, all the time'.....this promises some relief.
Or am I missing something here?
3
Every Trump rally should have a companion rally by Beto one mile away. Rob him of his exclusive media coverage.
1
Trumped bragged that he had more than 10,000 supporters at the rally but the venue only holds 6,500. Meanwhile it was reported that O’Rourke had 8,000 supporters. So a man who lost his race for Democratic Senator had as many or more supporters at his rally than Trump, the president of the US. And this in a red state. Imagine that.
13
Why no mention of the resolution passed by the El Paso City Council denouncing Trump's lies about the effect of the border wall on its city?
The resolution states in part that "construction of a border wall with tightened security will harm our interdependent relationship with our brothers and sisters to the south in Ciudad Juarez who are seeking economic prosperity, as well as U.S. and Mexican businesses dependent on cross-border commerce valued at $200 billion Texas-Mexico trade and $584 billion U.S.-Mexico trade in 2015 making Mexico the top trading partner of Texas." It adds that "true border security is economic security."
(Sources:
https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/politics/2017/04/04/el-paso-city-council-denounces-border-wall/100028586/
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzJfjJOU0AAUDE-.jpg )
This issue was not simply about "dueling rallies," but also about the lies and misleading statements of the POTUS regarding the impact of immigration on the area.
The City Council of the of El Paso (led by a Republican!) made a courageous statement on behalf of its residents, and it surely deserves to be quoted in this article.
16
These Trump rallies and so much of his activity is about campaigning vs. doing any governing. How is this legal and OK for him to abdicate any responsibility except self promotion..
9
@P Wilkinson
Maybe these rallies are counted as part of his "Executive Time" and we taxpayers foot the bill for his travel...as well as for the repeated lies wherever he goes. Sad!
4
Given competing rallies, I was expecting a lengthy analysis of crowd sizes. We are talking about Trump here. He can't let the subject go even when no one else cares. So I'm surprised to find attendance was so vaguely referenced in this article. Out of curiosity, I checked.
According to the El Paso Times, Trump had 6,500 in attendance per fire code restrictions on the venue. There were a few thousand more outside. The fire department clocked the total at 10,000 for the high estimate. Possibly lower.The El Paso police estimated O'Rourke's crowd size somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000.
There you have it folks. Trump loses the crowd battle again. At best, he struggled to reach a draw and probably failed. Remember, there are Trump protesters getting removed from Trump's rallies. Not everyone in attendance is there to support Trump. The question we now face is how to best rub it in the President's face?
6
I was just reading an article that a Trump supporter stormed the stage and attacked a BBC reporter. The article also said Trump was making comparisons the the Alamo. Makes me feel ill ...
8
Mary Renault, in her 1956 novel, The Last of the Wine, set in the Socratic era of Athens, writes about democracy:
"It is what it says it is, the rule of the people. It is as good as the people, or as bad."
Renault, through her main character, Alexias, characterizes the orator Hyberbolos in this way:
He "lives by denouncing and exposing while he is in credit, and, when he is out, by sycophancy and informations, with a little perjury thrown in. . . . He was the vilest speaker I ever heard: vulgar, ignorant, not seeking to teach his hearers, but rather to stir in men as vulgar as himself the irrational excesses to which such people are prone. . . . He lived in spite and hate. And now only invoked the good in the name of hatred; yet for a moment nobility glanced back at him, and made him brave. . . ."
Which is to say that Trump is a type, like others before him, and undoubtedly others after him, eager to stir up a crowd with vulgar language; a sycophant when up against a figure like Putin. That we keep repeating set, historical patterns of human behavior is interesting, not because we know the patterns, but because these patterns are ingrained within us. How this particular story turns out is a page-turner.
9
Trump is slowly untethering himself from Republican elected officials with his mendacity. The mayor of El Paso, a Republican is not going along with his crisis at the border. The fencing in El Paso went up years after the crime there had declined. El Paso is part of an across the border economic and social community as well. The narrative that Trump presents is true only in an imaginary world and mayors have to deal with the world as it happens to be. Congress has agreed to a compromise with the budget. If Trump renews the shut down his base will love it but lawmakers will not take much more of it because it will do too much damage.
3
I wish Trump would stay in Washington and do his job. He spends more time at rallies to boost his ego than doing the work of the people.
As far as the Wall goes, if I were a Democratic Candidate I would answer Trump's cry with "You said Mexico was going to pay for the Wall, so produce those results, as promised to your base."
The American taxpayer is going broke because of Trump, the Republicans and their Tax Reform Bill. We cannot afford to pay for the wall. Maybe Trump's cronies and the GOP can tap their wealth to do the job. Or get Mexico to pay for the Wall.
6
when trump has a rally, there should be warning labels put out that tell those that are about to attend said rally that there will be many lies told, along with verbal insults against adversaries, against races, against the media, against his own staff, to include Generals. oh wait that's all what they love and admire about him, he is like a drug. I was right he lied about having already built much of his wall. how can that be, was one of the prototypes for the wall even picked, who approved the money? I get they, his base want to believe what he tells them ,but even after a while have to know fact from fiction. if they don't, then what does that say about them?
3
Do you suppose if given a great big sandbox , buckets, shovels, and some blocks, that President Trump could build a big strong wall? No? Neither do I. His obsession with having a hard wall in place has already cost much in money and in lives. If the Congress has not approved boarder wall funding, likely the Trump administration will say, 'no deal!' and the federal government will shut again.
2
Build the wall!
5
@Susan Build the wall where? How? And with what? There are so many logistical issues to this bumper sticker slogan. How do we build it across water ways? Are we going to seize private property to do it? What about ecologically sensitive areas?
And let's talk cost: Five billion is just the starting point. A finished product would likely run 20 billion more, and that doesn't count the time or money spent fighting the many lawsuits that are sure to arise.
It's easy to chant a three-word slogan, but much harder to see a viable way this thing can realistically happen.
30
@Susan in Tampa, if the wall is built in your state of Florida, say around Mar-a-Lago with Trump inside it, now I could get behind that.
8
@Susan
.... after Donald buys his own island and calls it Birther Lago (preferably downwind)!
3
And how many taxpayer dollars were spent on Trump's stunt trip? Good thing he snuck that in before his next shut down.
32
This is yet another story this morning in an exceedingly liberal publication that carefully omits or edits out (censors) the relative crowd sizes of the two rallies. Did nobody even offer an estimate?
What about the old journalistic saw about "who, what, why, where, when, and how many?"
Is it asking to much for liberals to include even the bare journalistic basics interspersed between their propaganda anymore?
6
@Micoz Estimates have Trumps crowd size at 18,500 (6,500 in the arena and 10,000 to 12,000 outside). El Paso police estimated 10,000 to 15,000 at the anti-wall rally.
1
Regardless of the merits of your argument, what matters is the truth, not how many people came out. The facts are that El Paso was a safe city before the wall, that support for the wall is mostly remote from the border. Trump cannot admit he is wrong, so he continues to use fear mongering to give his lies the appearance of truth.
5
@Micoz ~
The size of these rallies is interesting, but not all that significant.
Trump boasted and crowed about how HE has the biggest rallies and .... a lot of other macho stuff .. ever, and he still lost the popular vote by 3 million.
2
Poor editing that favors trump: 'crime rate among immigrants is no higher than among native-born residents' should read 'crime rate among immigrants is 'lower' than ...
Report the facts rather than favoring trump with slights of facts.
6
@kirk--As always, the relevant basis for comparison is NOT with "native-born resident", but with ZERO, the number of crimes that SHOULD be committed by illegal aliens and even legal residents.
1
Well NYT, elect Trump again by not covering the opposition (Sanders, O’Rourke).
9
Perhaps the first sentence should be edited to read: “Mr. Trump came to El Paso to lie...”
32
We need to face the truth: the wall is not about illegal immigration, but all about Trump's white nationalist racism. All the data indicate that there is no crisis at the border other than the one manufactured by Donald Trump as part of his demagogic campaign of bigotry and other blame. As the son of Jewish immigrants and a member of a Holocaust family, I know virulent white racism when I see it and when I hear it. The wall is monument to both.
35
@Paul Wortman---A recent Gallup poll estimates that 42 million people from Latin America alone would like to migrate to the US. So, how many of them are we supposed to take? Bear in mind that 35% of Mexicans would come here if they could, and that Mexico is none too reliable at preventing non Mexicans from crossing it to the US. In fact, they're handing out transit visas not only to other Latinos, but to Africans, Haitians, and whomever else shows up.
2
"Very little going for him." = He wasn't born rich but worthless.
8
How are Trump's Bund rallies financed? Who pays for them? How much are taxpayers on the hook for? How do I get a complimentary MAGA/WALL hat so I can put it on my piñata? Please provide some answers, NYT, or anybody else the some insight.
17
@john belniak My compliments concerning the use of the "Bund" rally. It is fitting given that red hats have replaced brown shirts.
3
“Finish the Wall” signs in El Paso
really!?
This presidency is nothing but a “Wall” of lies.
That’s the “Wall” that 45 is proud of.
11
I love anyone who attacks the Orange Donut AKA the Chief Felon. Hats off to Beto: Nancy P; AOC; Kamala etc. Keep up the attacks on this mongrel president. Do Not Relent!
20
I think the best action to take with donnie the bigot is to ignore him.
By now, if we don’t know that he relishes attention and to have someone to blame for his failures, we are the stupid ones.
Just let him promise the big beautiful wall that Mexico will pay for that is being built RIGHT NOW.
Let him spew his hatred, divisive policies and white supremacy.
When he talks about the wall we need to talk LOUDLY and endlessly about how republicans are separating families who want asylum at the boarder and putting children in cages.
Democracy loving Americans MAKE SURE is is a one term bigot in chief.
Vote him out in huge numbers that are greater than the midterm blue wave.
12
@Manderine--Democracy-loving Americans have immigration laws that were passed by our duly elected representatives, and which should be enforced.
Meanwhile, Democrats appear to be trying to prevent those laws from being enforced, by attempting to defund ICE and reduce the number of detention beds. They want to go back to the Obama policy of "catch and release" which has gotten us to where we are now on our southern border.
1
Why is stating that a wall would stop the fire of drugs that mostly come through points of entry a "another dubious assertion" instead of a lie?
Are there any reputable official statistics showing individuals illegally entering the US on foot toting hundreds of pounds of drugs on their backs? And if they're here without having been caught, how does anyone know they're the source?
I'm not advocating for illegal entry of people or drugs, I'm just looking for substantiation of Trump's claims. If the El Paso Times analyzed three decades of statistics from the F.B.I. and found those data contradicted Trump's claims, I'd like to know why the Times and other media are so reluctant to call a lie...well, a lie?
"Mr. Trump dismissed those who disputed his facts about the wall, saying the mayor of El Paso was “full of crap,” even if he was a Republican."
Trump won't, or can't, be a unifier because he won't, or can't, praise action without, at the same time, issue a counter productive slap at those who might be his allies. Any description by the NYT or anyone else that couches his insanity without calling it out is doing its readers a gross disservice.
10
@SMKNC--Even if/when illegal aliens don't themselves carry drugs, they have been used by the cartels to divert the resources of CBP from drug interdiction to processing "unaccompanied minors" and "asylum seekers". CBP testified to Congress about that during the influx of "unaccompanied minors" during the Obama administration. CBP was tied up babysitting children and processing/handing out permisos to them and the adults who came, rather than out looking for drug smugglers.
1
@Ali
Please. These families and kids are such a distraction that the cartels can slip massive amounts of drugs through while CBP isn't looking?
I don't think so.
Trump's wall has never been defined as to as to exact location, type, cost, or effectiveness, as every single federal expenditure must be, because it was never anything more than a campaign ploy and a symbol of hate of the "other" that rallies the ignorant.
"The Wall" is a distraction that buried the recent news of Trump's campaign having sent polling data to the Russian intelligence operation that attacked the 2016 election in order to direct their activities to vulnerable American targets.
It is also a wall that Trump believes will politically shield him from the walls of justice that are closing in on him and his criminal enterprise. It will not.
It is a political stunt perpetrated by a desperate con artist. His sniffles are inhaling the smell of his own fear.
11
The Wall is a symbol that is intended to discourage people from thinking that the country is open to them, it is meant to assert that no further big demographic changes will be tolerated. That is what his base wants. Trump’s world is his money, that’s the only thing that he takes seriously, he advocates the Wall because the right has.
2
@Casual Observer
Also, don't dismiss the fact that there will never be a true federal Trump monument, so he wants to use this this racist abomination as a substitute.
El Paso earned its reputation as one of America’s safest cities because a Border Patrol chief figured out a way to dramatically reduce illegal border crossings from Juarez into El Paso. “Crime peaked in 1993, with more than 6,500 violent crimes recorded and then “dropped by 34 percent over the next 13 years” because in 1993 Silvestre Reyes, Chief Patrol Agent of the El Paso Border Patrol Sector, strategically positioned a phalanx of Border Patrol cars on the banks of the Rio Grande as part of a strategy called "Operation Hold the Line.”
Reys placed Border Patrol units in close proximity to each other along the entire length of the Rio Grande as it passed through El Paso-Juarez. Predictably, immigrant-rights group protested, claiming Operation Hold the Line forced unauthorized immigrants to attempt desert crossings in remote areas, but in El Paso the strategy reduced crime as well as illegal border crossings. It also make Reyes a border hero; he was was elected to U.S. House of Representatives.
5
Sounds like it wouldn’t be too hard for a reporter to dig up this info.. pretty clear and straightforward. And Beto should Certainly know this as a lifetime resident of El Paso and a politician.
1
@Sue Loft
Before Hold the Line, you could stand on the bridge between downtown El Paso and Juarez and see dozens of people at a time wading the Rio Grande. Actually. One tall man carry people across piggy back.
I was concerned with with non-violent crime than violent crime. I lived a few blocks from the Rio GanMy house was burglarize about once. One year, inaction to my television, TV set and furniture, they also took all my clothes and even the shampoo from my shower.
Trump strikes me as a guilty man trying to groom his base. That wasn’t a rally; that was a plea of ‘I’m doing a great job, so don’t let them send me to jail.’
8
Beto O'Rourke, an El Paso resident and the area's former congressman, had a paltry few hundred in the audience compared to 8,000 people inside and ~25,000 outside the arena for President Trump. I guess the President's message rings true much louder than O'Rourke's in El Paso.
4
@MCH Crowd estimates for the anti-wall rally were 10,000 to 15,000. The "few hundred" estimate came from Trump, hardly an unbiased source.
2
@MCH
Trump's a sheep-herder, not a president.
All that angst about running from Beto....seems pretty faked to me.
2
“A young man who’s got very little going for himself except he’s got a great first name, he challenged us," Trump on O'Rourke's competing rally which he also described as the equivalent "to drawing 200 people on Taco Tuesday night." Gotta love Donald's ability to stick a label, an accurate one, on his political rivals. And what's with the Liberal media's obsession with this O'Rourke fellow? Probably because compared to the current sterling crop of Dems who have announced, he's the most normal.
2
@Jacob handelsman
Trump sounds like he's running for class president of some backwoods elementary school.
Which makes sense, considering that there are more third graders who know more than his die-hard loyalists.
1
Numbers.
As usual Trump LIED about the number of people at his rally.
He claimed 35,000 in a facility that holds only 6,500.
He asserted only 2-300 protestors were at the Beto O'Rourke rally, while the police counted 10-15,000.
Which number lie is this for Trump?
Who knows.
But we all know the most important number: 708--the number of days until January 20, 2021 when we will get a new president.
18
Mr. Trump, who didn't win the Presidency legitimately, is a fraud and a person who goes bankrupt instead of ever having honestly earned a living.
He has exploited the people he now wants to bar from coming to this country by demonizing them.
16
All of this ridiculous talk about border walls as a solution to a non existent problem only makes me want to paint every one of them in rainbow colors as a protest forum. I want to hang beautiful flags all over barbed wire fences. I need some way to escape this ugliness and tear down the wall.
1
@Kathy--"Nonexistent problem"? The number in the fall caravan, the most recent one, was double that of the spring one, 5,000-7,000. Another caravan is on its way and estimates are that it will be double the last one, about 12,000. That's what happens when people find out a way to game the system. MORE catch on, and do the same. Meanwhile, Gallup reports that 42 million Latin Americans would migrate to the US if they could. I wonder how many caravans it will take to hollow out Honduras, El Salvador, etc.?
1
Quite obvious by the facts that President Trump's rally put O'Rourke's to shame. This was in his home town. Doesn't look good for this young man. If the dems keep pushing socialist ideas they are dead in the water.
15
@Donald Well, here we go again with the dog whistling about socialism when we already have socialistic programs.
Be sure to never apply for any assistance from some of those programs.
59
@Donald
Amazing how Trump brings out the worst in people. Hence the violent man who assaulted journalists at Trump's rally. Further it spurs people to lie like Donald in NJ. I've seen nothing to indicate that Trump's rally put O'Rourke's to shame.
66
@Donald
According to El Paso Fire Department, Trump brought about 6,700 people out. With another 1,000 or so outside the arena. That same group says that Beto gathered 10,000 to 15,000 to his show.
78
The debate over immigration is weather to enforce the immigration laws or not. And the Democratic Party is increasingly against meaningful enforcement. It is an impressively reckless position.
2
Why are people removed from T's event for dissenting? What happened to free speech in this country? Is this because it is characterized as a "campaign rally?" And if so, what is the definition and how much of our tax dollars are supporting that effort?
10
The incident hasn't been reported in all the legitimate venues, yet, but a Trump 95% (er) attacked several journalists at the rally; a BBC cameraman taking the hardest hit. Reports vary in detail but the overall summary is that others among the reporters stopped the man long before any "security" finally escorted the man out of the venue. All Trump did was offer a thumbs up to the cameraman and told the crowd he was okay then continued his hate fest speech.
This time it was a tackle, some punches thrown and shoving which is consistent with similar incidents at Trump's hate fest rallies since 2017. As Trump ramps up the rhetoric, the next time the supporter may choose to use a weapon; then what.
8
First: Does America understand that DJT is campaining on the tax payers dollar and the free coverage that goes with it? He allready started with 2020 and is ahead
Second: The best border security is to help elevate the standard of living of your neighbouring country to a level that fleeing is no longer necessary.
Third: Make sure that countries further south also have a means to hold up their own trousers and are not economicly restrained by sanctions or supporting the dictator of the day
Fourth: Reap the benefits of those enhanced standards by more trade with these countries instead of holding them back (They all want American stuff; cars movies, heavy equipment... you name it).
Fifth: China, North Korea, Iran and Russia are challenging the US on many fronts e.g. economicly, military, world influence etc. I sure helps to have a few friendly countries backing you in your corner of the world.
So stop building a wall and start building alliances.
13
In other words build your own "Pan American" Belt and Road.
Trump sees the wall as a must in order to win reelection.
Ron Spears is a BBC cameraman. Last night he was viciously attacked by a Trump supporter/henchman just for filming the Trump rally. He was just doing his job. While he was being attacked, others cheered. Trump encourages violence against the media. You can only assume he was delighted. This casual violence around the President is so commonplace that specific attacks no longer get a mention in the American media. We are far too obsessed with what Trump says. We pay far to little attention to what he does, or what others do in his name. Why?
16
Correction: should read Ron Skeans
trump believes he can play both sides of the illegal immigration debate when it works to his advantage. Illegal immigration served him just fine while he was building his Bedminster NJ golf club for the rich & privileged. He needed a large pool of cheap labor willing to do grueling work for hours under any conditions, without overtime pay or other benefits. They were paid $8-$10/hour to build the rolling green fairways, jobs for which professionals would have earned an average of $ 50/hour. He found them in Mexico, El Salvador, Guatamala, and a large number from two small areas in Costa Rica - so many that they said the transition to the US was relatively easy because they knew many already here. They lived in the same apartment buildings, rode the same schoolbus to work. There were no reports of a subsequent violent crime wave in Bound Brook, NJ, where they lived. A few traffic violations, nothing more.
As candidate & as President, he has demonized these same people as "bad hombres" who have come to violently savage our country and (oh no!), steal the jobs that are the birthright of hard working Americans - all for his own political gain.
Sorry president trump (well, not really), but you can't have it both ways. Unless you lie about it of course.
7
Shouldn't the a Republican National Committee be paying for these campaign " rallies?" Given that 1) they don't appear to be all-inclusive,2) those with a differing point of view ie hecklers get hauled out,3) the message is rarely positive and typically omits any solutions beyond " building a wall" or " keeping the murders and rapists out," it would stand to reason (!) that the American taxpayer shouldn't have to contribute a dime.
Perhaps a fee or donation box to cover the costs of each of these " events?" It may be surprising how an entry fee might affect the ever important " crowd size."
5
As usual, Trump lied about his numbers saying he had over 35000 people(really 6700) while he said Beto had only 200 people (really 10000). The big problem is that the Republicans buy and support his continual lies. Starting from a set of Trump lies, one can create a reality not supported by any facts. It is doubtful that Trump would recognize a fact if it bit him. There will be some from El Paso who have seen crime and others who have not, like any other large city. Extremes are almost always wrong. Trump get's his way because people ignore his most dangerous characteristic; his lack of concern for anything not Trump. He only wants to win and everything is a contest to the Trump.
2
In this age of Trump everyone needs to educate themselves to truth. One must sadly assume whatever comes out of the President's mouth is a lie. Facts are easy to validate or dismiss in this age of the internet. Do not be a sheep following Trump's flock. Become an educated voter and if you choose Trump well so be it.
4
Wouldn't it be amazing if at every one of his rallies a Democratic presidential candidate met him with a counter rally (there are enough!). I would love to see my party work collectively to defeat this abomination of a president, even during the primaries.
2
So the fact that some 330 million US citizens commit more crimes than illegal immigrants is a sad faulty argument. Now if illegal immigrants, itself a crime, are removed then those crimes they commit and crimes they commit that are never discovered or convicted of, would never have happened. Seeking asylum to escape crime should be grounds for justified asylum claim else half the world would be able to enter here. Pity all crime victims.
1
Mrs. Harris says her son entered America illegally, then states “My son sacrificed for this country”. I noticed she didn’t say for “our country”, or “his country”.
5
Her son sacrificed more for THIS country than the bigot in chief and any member of his greedy family ever has.
10
@Jay
Really? Is this how deep into the weeds you have to go to try to prove someone's supposed non-allegiance to America?
I'm pretty sure, over my 60+ years, I've used the word "this" as a demonstrative article more than a few times in relation to the USA. Is it OK if I stay?
1
@Ralphie
You don’t have to go into the weeds to find people who have come here illegally that assume rights they do not have. Sanctuary Cities and States promote an illegal right, and safety if getting across the boarder is successful. Enforcing the laws, part of a presidents oath, is what should be demanded, not lawlessly disregarding them.
1
Trump himself has, over many years, hired illegal immigrants to work for his businesses and golf courses. Years ago he claimed to have hired illegal Polish immigrants to build Trump Tower itself. At all his golf clubs, including his faves, Mar-a-lago in Florida and Bedminster in NJ, illegal immigrants have been a constant until VERY recently. The NYTimes has just done some pieces on the Bedminster NJ club and the longtime employment of illegal immigrants from Costa Rica to build and maintain the golf course at pay scales way below standard NJ pay scales. The state of NJ is beginning to take a very serious look at this. In short, his stated views on illegal immigration are another big Trump lie. He personally has made NO effort to require papers from his employees until VERY recently, i.e. THIS YEAR. He is a hypocrite.
26
New York Times, while I count on the paper and enjoy it, I do not enjoy reading Donald’s lies without a notation on the veracity (lack of) from you.
“Today, we started building the big beautiful wall right on the Rio Grande.” This is false. Please call it out each and every time.
34
Trump is a huckster. The only one in his audience last night who he cared to impress was his narcissistic self. However to do it he had to stir his rabidly vindictive crowd up with hate and fear through the use of lies and name calling espsecially of the press and of all democrats.
The man is dangerous, as in deadly dangerous to what this country is all about.
Putin is a happy man tonight.
22
Seems like Trump is acting like Henry Potter in its a Wonderful Life. And Beto is more of a Jimmy Stewart character.
"Mr. Potter : [to George Bailey] Look at you. You used to be so cocky. You were going to go out and conquer the world. You once called me "a warped, frustrated, old man"! What are you but a warped, frustrated young man? A miserable little clerk crawling in here on your hands and knees and begging for help
1
At least Democrats are no longer pretending they are against unlimited immigration by anyone. And they are no longer pretending they are concerned about the rule of law. And they no longer pretend they want to keep criminals out. Instead, they just tell these people "Come in." Like frogs in a pot, they are cooking themselves in the same water they are inviting other frogs to hop into."
7
It’s clear that Trump’s only option now in the “debate” is to make up a narrative that his throng eats up and let those who explain that statistics prove that migrant traffic is at a multi-decade low be dammed.
He’s even attacking a Republican mayor who explains that a wall is unnecessary - the truth has really become “inconvenient” at this point.
How do we wind back from this nonsense????
13
We don’t. And we may be stuck with another term with this bigot.
He won’t lose...we aren’t able to take him down. We DO have a moral compass. It just doesn’t work in his world.
1
Trump will be a formidable candidate in 2020 because he has no moral compass and is a genius sociopath with a low intelligence for basic Learning skills.
He cares about group think and adoration
HE gets admiration from other autocrats with mental health issues
We know all this
Democrats are being too passive
They must attack and stop asking their younguns to apologize about gaffs .
Learn to fight violence from trump with violence from our candidates against him ;in their own styles.
Respect your Muslim congress members
Learn about their own genocides and diasporas
Stop betraying Omar and AOC
Not fair or wise with trump salivating at our door.
18
@nurse Jacki - wow you’re putting your eggs in the Omar/AOC basket?
AOC is all over the place on her GND.
In the 80’s I was told by some Swedes that they were going to eliminate nuclear in something like 10 yrs.
I’m still waiting for that person to pay off on the bet.
1
@alan
You bet I will be encouraging their POV and emerging policy frameworks as they learn Washington ropes.
You bet I support all the women Alan.
Zionism is destructive to any dialogue involving the Middle East and Corporate dollars.
He lied. As soon as his lips moved he lied and did not stop lying until his lips stopped moving.
20
At his rally in El Paso, Trump condemned murderers who cross the border from Mexico. This is the same man who praises and defends murderers of Saudi Arabia.
36
The Texas Observer called Trump's wall a "Vortex of Stupidity" that was invented to rile up his followers. Presumably people in Ohio who have never been to the Texas border and who can be convinced to believe some guy from Queens selling them border info.
24
Agreed. This entire issue, and perhaps the entire Trump presidency, could easily be defused. Congress need only approve one hundred million dollars, to be spent on venues and reasonable salaries for professional attendees for a circuit of Trump rallies. Nothing else matters, to either the president, or his base.
Beto is a left leaning extremist that is bent on his open border, state sponsored free- everything agenda.
8
@There
Here on Planet Earth, we are aware that no Democrat has ever supported an "open border, free-everything" agenda.
7
Putin must be laughing, and his GRU spies, and anti-democracy band of Oligrachs are dancing with glee.
Our president wants to build a medival border wall in 2019!!
What next? Our military will use bayonets instead of military grade guns? Mail sent on horseback to the wealthiest alone?
As I said, this wall of Trump's must be cracking up Putin and his band of spies and Oligarchs.
Once again, another blow to our world standing. An inexplicable, unnecessary and anti-immigrant wall. Sad.
6
Democrats need to ask themselves why does Beto O’Rourke want to keep the El Paso/Juarez Corridor wide open? It is a major route used to transport narcotics destined for major cities in the U.S. The war between Sinaloa and Juarez cartels that has killed more than 10,000 people has been over the control of this major gateway for drug trafficking. El Paso is littered with warehouses used to stash drugs and many small businesses set up to launder drug money. Beto needs to find a different cause to rally the troops because open borders equal four more years of Trump. Here is a sample of what Beto will do to the Democrats:
https://youtu.be/wrWzBg475Q8
7
@Barbara Dayan
"keep the El Paso/Juarez corridor wide open".... You must not have ever been to El Paso. I lived in southern New Mexico for years, just north of El Paso. It is anything but "wide open".
I was a law enforcement officer, and often worked/talked with border patrol. What they need is money for equipment and updated technology at the port of entry. Not more wall out in the middle of nowhere.
8
This dude trump will say anything. Sadly, 3/10 will go with him no matter what. Our job? Don’t be one of those three.
13
@Gabriel
AND to make sure we vote every time.
Take a friend with you to the polls.
Get out the vote!!
4
How does NYT publish this sentence, said by our president “Today we started building the big beautiful wall right on the Rio Grande.” and not write the sentence “This is not true” following it?
That we have not started building the wall is a fact, which I believe is what you try to to report. And yes, that he said we have begun, is also a fact, but saying words is not the same as stating facts.
It is necessary that our papers of record do not let the claims of this snake oil salesman dangle out in public without immediate clarification.
21
Did you miss the part where a BBC cameraman got physically attacked by a MAGA-hatted drunk? Trump even asked the press if they were alright, mid-speech.
15
Was this a news report or a Opinion piece ?
Obviously a wall is going to slow immigration and
those immigrants who are violent and it will reduce
easy access to the US by those carrying drugs.
It is not up to the reporter to decide what is
dubious or not, just report the events of the day.
8
@John Brown "It is not up to the reporter to decide what is
dubious or not, just report the events of the day." = definition of propagandist. Definition of journalist per the American Press Institute, "Journalism is the activity of gathering, assessing, creating, and presenting news and information. It is also the product of these activities." Note "assess."
@John Brown
Trump's lies are, unfortunately, an event every day and must be duly reported by the media.
2
@Ralphie
It is certainly not a lie that a Wall would slow
down Un-Documented Immigration and would
do something to lessen the amount of violent Immigrants and Drug Smuggling.
How effective it would be should be discussed in an Opinion piece or at least present both sides.
If the New York Times no longer wishes to be
the "Paper of Record" but biased toward the
Left - let it change its motto to:
"All the News that Progressives Feel should
be Printed".
1
Fences make for good neighbors!
6
Thank you President Trump. Build The Wall. Keep America Safe.
Run Beto Run.
5
Walls are made to go over, under, or around. There is no stopping the human imagination for freedom from violence and oppression.
1
What we have here is a fact free presidency.
11
@Foo
Not only Fact free....
Accountability free
Obligation free
Common sense free
Knowlegde free
Commitment to the office of President free
Bi partisan free
Not free of lies
Twice as many people turned out for O'Rourke's march as for the rally. Why is this not mentioned but has to be found buried in another story?
13
Because it is not true.
2
@Mary Sive - because the NYT hides as much as it can that it Doesn’t want you to hear.
For days I’ve been looking for info in AOC’s GND. AS of Monday nothing. Haven’t checked today.
1
@Mary Sive
Moreover, numbers are not everything: standing up for truth, justice and brotherhood, as Beto and his supporters did, is worthy in-and-of-itself. Thousands supported Hitler in 1936 -- the few who opposed him still shine like stars in the darkness.
2
Would it be unrealistic or misleading or partisan to suggest that crime rates in El Paso have ebbed and flowed irrespective of the presence of a wall, a fence, or a roadside drainage ditch?
Is it equally unrealistic to go into one's back yard and issue a primal scream - "Arrgghhh!!" - about the nonsense of it all?
There is NO "crisis" at our southern border. Like most (or all) of life in Trump's delusional world, the wish is to make us as devious and cunning as he is. Don't fall for it. Embrace your personal values and shut your ears to that man and his enablers.
8
If illegals are so dangerous, why would he hire so many at his resorts? Do the people who frequent his hotels and golf courses know how much danger he has put them in? El Paso may be safe now but I'd stay away from anything with Trump's name on it until they build a wall around those properties.
8
How could you use an isolated close up shot of a president giving a speech to an event where 35,000 people tried to attend? How do you live with yourself distorting reality with deception?
6
O’Rourke represents the best of America. Donald Trump represents the absolute worst.
10
If Beto is the best, I’m scared.
2
If the prophesied Hispanic invasion has truly become a national emergency, as Trump claims, shouldn't we be seeing -- especially in El Paso -- the "taco trucks on every corner" described by the the Latinos for Trump visionary, Marco Gutierrez? Really, this whole caravan catastrophe hysteria is looking like the biggest bust since the Fyre Festival. Trump said Mexico was going to pay the necessary billions for his wall, but at this point he can't even come up with enough Mexican street food to serve lunch to his audience. What a farce! The imaginary immigrant invasion is the biggest non-event of the year.
6
You do understand that there are 30 to 50 thousand apprehensions at the southern border every MONTH, right? The media will go on for weeks about how 800k federal workers will suffer from a skipped a paycheck, but say nothing about illegal immigrants half the size of the entire federal workforce claiming asylum at our border each year! Its lunacy! What country would put up with this? MILLIONS have walked across our border in the past decades. Don't you find it odd that the media completely does not report this? And dont you find it odd that you are called a racist at the mere opposition to it? Absolute lawlessness.
6
Muy bien hecho, Beto. Great to see a true died-in-the-wool American, concerned with truth, justice and brotherhood.
5
“Is there any place that’s more fun to be than a Trump rally?”
Well, there’s gum surgery for starters...
10
Trump’s already got Texas, Florida, and now Virginia. The media are trying to build up Beto, but he’s a flop.
4
Confiscating hand guns and assault rifles would save way more lives than any wall.
8
A taste of what Trump will do in his reelection campaign at rallies that look more and more and more and more like Nuremberg 80 years ago.
It is becoming pure unadulterated evil but the Republican Party sits and watches and says and does nothing to stand in the way of the demagogue.
And that abetted by the GOP's recalcitrant, reactionary backwardness on every contemporarily vital issue will be the undoing of the Republican Party -- which is having a large going out of business sale.
The only customers the Republican Party has left are the angry, ignorant creatures who make up the howling monster that is the Trump mob.
6
Official numbers from law enforcement and fire department put Beto crowd at a solid 7500 and Trump crowd at 6500. Trump lied about his numbers anyway.
12
@Beto Buddy
Law enforcement said the number of people outside the Trump rally who couldn't get in was over 10,000. You've been fact-checked.
5
After his rally, trump chose to speak live on Fox television about his "great numbers" - it's always about the numbers - rather than be briefed on the progress of the Congressional immigration policy debate. This fact alone speaks volumes about his priorities. Ego before duty to country.
By the way: Beto 10,000-15,000. trump 6,700. Lying. Again.
1
10,000 couldn't get in? Hard to believe when there were only an estimated 6,700 inside. Beto managed 10,000- 15,000, and nobody stood outside. For trump & his minions it's always about his "great numbers". These were so important to him last night that he chose to go live on Fox to brag about them rather than be briefed on the progress of the Congressional immigration policy debate - ego before duty to country. Priorities, priorities.
1
Trump is winning for the security of America. Pelosi loses. shutdown was worth it.
5
the Democrats and Ms Pelosi are willing to fund border security. it is the wall that is the issue. where are the studies showing that a wall will be effective? where are the environmental impact studies? simply demanding a wall without carrying out the required scientific research into its true efficacy could result in a massive waste of money. regarding whether the shutdown was "worth it" just ask the government employees hurt by it
1
Trump is losing.
Why you think spending billions of tax payer money to fund Donnie's vanity wall is worth it is beyond me. Most undocumented workers are folks who overstay, a wall would do nothing to stop that.
Most of the drugs come through the entry points which are currently understaffed while Trump sends troops to chase and jail children. It's insane.
Many are fleeing from persecution which entitles them to legally seek shelter here as established by our American law.
Those who are migrating because of dire poverty are drawn by jobs. Such as those at Trump's gulf courses. Trump has been hiring illegals for years.
1
Such a winner.
Most of the illegal traffic that comes from Mexico comes through tunnels. Most illegal drugs come to the US through ports of entry. The above is verifiable via this paper.
Mr, Trump does not believe what the news media says referring to it as "fake news". He does not believe his own intelligence agencies. So my question is this: Where does he get his information about the crimes of immigrants?
4
Not exactly the “dueling rallies” referenced—more like that little film Bambi meets Godzilla. I expected that El Paso’s homeboy would have done better. And, by the way, the Mexican flags at Beto’s rally probably won’t help—in the unlikely event the MSM shows them.
7
The pretender to the throne opts for a fawning interview with a Fox agent orange enabler rather than attend a briefing on the potential deal forged by the bipartisan committee. The man has no concept of governance.
15
Trump's mistake was and continues to be calling Mexicans rapists and murderers and drug smugglers. If Trump had formulated a wise well thought out bipartisanship policy on southern border security not built on fear mongering it would have been a winner for him. Instead, he chose to vilify an entire people, shut the government down in a snit, insanely tweet and tweet about this issue, and blame everyone but himself for his poor decisions.
9
@BB Fernandez
With his little tiny hands
and his little tiny feet,
all he does is tweet tweet tweet.
2
I'm watching the Trump rally in El Paso. Do you see the guy with the white USA hat and overly large yellow lapels standing right behind Trump? Did you notice how he is the only one there constantly looking back in forth? Did you notice his stern demeanor? Did you notice his restrained applause? Did you notice how clean cut he is,thus not fitting in to the crowd behind Trump. He is obviously a secret service agent literally protecting Trump's back. Okay,but is there a Hatch Act violation by his pretending to support Trump at political rally?
3
“He’s supposed to win in order to run,” the president added. “Beto was defeated.””
Trump shows his ignorance of history. A little known former Congressman name Abraham Lincoln lost a Senate race in Illinois to a better known Stephen In 1858. Two years later, Lincoln beat Douglas in the presidential campaign of 1860.
Last night, O’Rourke scorched Trump on the lies he told about Beto’s hometown, immigration and the lunacy of building a wall. trump has chosen immigration as the 2020 contest for president begins and Beto O’Rourke is more than up for the challenge.
15
Is the border-crossing situation in California nothing more than “political theater”, or is it a case of DENIAL and skewed perception on the part of the good governor of California?
Obviously, the term “crisis” can mean different things to different people. But if one has become totally acclimated and resigned to “sanctuary cities” as being the “norm”, then of course…the border-crossing situation is hardly a “crisis”; it’s just “business as usual. So why not leave well-enough alone? If YOU don’t say anything then I won’t say anything, okay?
The DEMs publically “say” they want “comprehensive & cost-effective border security” (but not a physical barrier), while at the same time they staunchly defend “sanctuary cities” and “catch & release” at the Southern border. Check my math below:
Simply stated, the DEM’s formula for border security = “sanctuary cities (in violation of federal law) + “catch & release at the Southern border = an ongoing magnet & incentive for people to continually “game” and exploit the system at U.S. taxpayer expense = Arithmetic 101
Why do we have immigration/asylum laws & legal borders in the first place, if these laws and borders mean absolutely nothing? Am I missing something, or what? Or could it be that I’m just a mindless and deplorable “racist” and a “xenophobe”? Curious minds need to know!
2
Two walls--The Vietnam wall in D C has names of our heroes; what should we write on the Border Wall?
Wall Of Shame (and waste of money).
1
Even trump’s supporters, at his own rally, can’t agree!
trump says, “Finish the Wall!”
his supporters state, “Build the Wall!”
The former claims the wall has started, the latter states when will the wall begin?
3
"But he has been eager to return to rallies, which energize him and filled up his calendar before the midterm elections".
"..filled up his calendar", that's rich.
9
What happened to "...and Mexico will pay for it"? Not so much winning is it?
8
According to our Real Estate Developer/Economist In Chief, Mexico will pay for it through NAFTA 2.0. Oops. It doesn't work that way. No wonder the Wharton School chooses to keep quiet about the fact that trump attended. Most schools are thrilled to have an alumnus elected president, but there will be no offers to make the Commencement address, no honorary degree.
At this rally, Trump said that Ralph Northam wants to “execute babies”. One would think this absolutely insane remark (one of an endless supply) from the president of the United States would get more attention, but political reporters need to set up the O’Rourke vs. Trump narrative.
3
Is the border-crossing situation in Texas nothing more than “political theater”, or is it a case of DENIAL and skewed perception on the part of Beto O'Rourke?
Obviously, the term “crisis” can mean different things to different people. But if one has become totally acclimated and resigned to “sanctuary cities” as being the “norm”, then of course…the border-crossing situation is hardly a “crisis”; it’s just “business as usual. So why not leave well-enough alone? If YOU don’t say anything then I won’t say anything, okay?
The DEMs publically “say” they want “comprehensive & cost-effective border security” (but not a physical barrier), while at the same time they staunchly defend “sanctuary cities” and “catch & release” at the Southern border. Check my math below:
Simply stated, the DEM’s formula for border security = “sanctuary cities (in violation of federal law) + “catch & release at the Southern border = an ongoing magnet & incentive for people to continually “game” and exploit the system at U.S. taxpayer expense = Arithmetic 101
Why do we have immigration/asylum laws & legal borders in the first place, if these laws and borders mean absolutely nothing? Am I missing something, or what? Or could it be that I’m just a mindless and deplorable “racist” and a “xenophobe”? Curious minds need to know!
3
Sanctuary cities violate no American laws. The courts have so held. Such cities are safer because everybody is able to report crime without fear. Trump is trying to force local cities to provide manpower as though they were a Federal police force. America has always avoided granting this type of power to DC.
@AJBaker Illegal immigration/border-crossing (which in and of itself is in violation of federal law) is a persistent drain on our judicial & socioeconomic resources and infrastructure…and I’m sure you’re fully aware of that. Local law enforcement and elected officials in these “sanctuary cities” are not only uncooperative, but downright HOSTILE towards federal law enforcement. Does that please you, AJ?
Again, like in any civil and orderly society we have immigration laws & legal borders for a reason…in the absence of which there is bedlam & chaos. Law-abiding citizens and taxpayers don’t want bedlam and chaos…and neither do you. But then again, if you’re more inclined towards “anarchy” as opposed to a “civil and orderly society”, then I suppose “sanctuary cities” would be very appealing to you, yes?
With that said, our extremely porous Southern border is a gateway for hideous drug & human trafficking, gang activity and violent crime…including MURDER…which poisons our neighborhoods, schools and our vulnerable youth. All the excuses and “sanctuary city” rationalizations in the world won’t fix that problem, AJ; only common sense and adherence to the law will do that.
So I guess this will be Trump’s first stop on the 2020 campaign rally train? Hasn’t he been running for reelection since January 2017? I guess he is gearing up to rival Bob Dylan for the never ending tour.
6
Sounds like the El Paso wall is about as useful as Berlin’s was.
3
Walls do two things, whether physical or psychological; they divide. I am not convinced that "the wall" is all about keeping imaginary, culturally different "criminals" out. It's about attempting to build long-term support for more authoritarian forms of government within our borders.
When Mr. Trump speaks, he is not speaking to promote sound approaches to building and maintaining relationships. He speaks with it in mind to tear them apart.
10
Beto can emerge this way. I hope he does.
16
This article forgot to mention that there were 30,000 people at Trump’s rally and local hero, Beto O’Rourke, only had 300.
7
Yes, and isn’t that a sad tribute to Reality TV America that takes its lead from the flashy and false.
9
That's wrong. Trump had 30 million people inside the arena plus 20 million people standing outside watching it on TV screens. Plus the more than 3 billion people who watched it on TV and the internet from China, India, Alpha Centauri and the moon. It was the biggest rally in the history of everything.
O'Rourke's rally had two people.
25
@Truth Teller
Sorry, but your numbers aren't accurate. The crowd for Beto was at least 4000. Early estimates were off because people were still marching. There are reports that the crowd for Beto may have grown to 7000-8000.
Trump's rally included many people from outside El Paso. Some had driven 9 hours to attend; who knows if these people were even from Texas, especially given the proximity of El Paso to New Mexico. I live in Texas, btw, and if you'd like to hear from a Republican rep who knows border issues and doesn't see the need for the wall, check out Will Hurd. His district includes much of the border area in Texas.
18
Didn't Trump, himself, call this appearance at the border a rally? Doesn't sound too much like a trip to ascertain whether or not there is a national emergency there.
24
Democrats seems far too satisfied that Beto is their guy and Trump is not. But they are trying to dismiss the political reality: Trump won on the immigration issue, and he will win again on the immigration issue unless Dems don’t stop dissembling and instead make it clear to voters on how they actually will fix a deeply broken system that, in point of fact, incentivizes people to enter this country illegally. Full stop.
12
Twice now in the past 13 years there has been legislation supported by both parties to make progress on immigration. Both times the Republicans have torpedoed the legislation because they need the issue to run on, not to be solved.
So when one party really doesn’t want the issue solved what do you do?
55
the GOP has created, and continues to support, this "broken" immigration system. full stop.
deal after deal gets shot down by the GOP. wonder why that is?
3
I would have liked to see the citizens of El Paso, perhaps led by O'Rourke, form a wall, complete with appropriate props, to encircle Trump's latest theatrical performance. American like theatrical confrontation, which is why we now have Trump reprising his "reality" TV role as Entertainer-In-Chief.
Citizen walls blocking his motorcade would have upstaged his own coverage, the one thing that drives him crazy. Well, if he comes to my town......
The nice thing about West Texas Democrats is that they have more serious and better things to do than cratecircular firing squads. Where are Anne Richards and Molly Ivins when we need them? Actually, Kinky Friedman could do a good job of competing with Trump for the stage, again something that would drive the President to play even more with his micro-tweeter at 4 a.m.
I would also like to note Estella's comment (Time's Pick) for being personal, not full of invective, and indicating an openness to considering multiple perspectives. We need much more of that in these pages as well as elsewhere.
9
El Paso earned its reputation as one of America’s safest cities because a Border Patrol chief figured out a way to dramatically reduce illegal border crossings from Juarez into El Paso. “Crime peaked in 1993, with more than 6,500 violent crimes recorded and then “dropped by 34 percent over the next 13 years” because that Silvestre Reyes, Chief Patrol Agent of the El Paso Border Patrol Sector, strategically positioned agents along the Rio Grande to intercept undocumented immigrants in a strategy termed "Operation Hold the Line.”
Reys placed Border Patrol units in close proximity to each other along the entire length of the Rio Grande as it passed through El Paso-Juarez. Predictably, immigrant-rights group protested, claiming Operation Hold the Line forced unauthorized immigrants to attempt desert crossings in remote areas, but in El Paso the strategy reduced crime as well as illegal border crossings. It also made Reyes a border hero; he was was elected to U.S. House of Representatives.
7
Hey, you need to watch the Reyes interview on the CNN website where he says Trump doesn’t know what he is talking about and El Paso doesn’t need anymore wall.
Hearing sound bites from the trump rally, do his supporters (many who travelled hours to be there considering the El Paso electorate are not trump supporters) realize how much trump lied. From the numbers attending: 35,000 people cannot fit into a 6500 seat arena, to his claims of high crime in El Paso from undocumented immigrants (El Paso has a low crime rate, even before the border barrier was constructed) to his false claims on asylum seekers, crime, drugs etc? Every single point is refuted, even by the news side of Fox News. Yet he keeps repeating. And worse, people keep cheering. This is dangerous.
22
Once upon a time there was a pretend President who couldn't read. So, he listened to any fool, who would believe his fairy tales and multiple, inaccurate, daily lies, confirmed via real media, to be fake news.
So, instead of running our country, he took his fairy tale show to El Paso Texas for a campaign rally, pretending that a bigger wall there would solve all of America's problems.
He didn't listen to El Paso's local government officials who know El Paso best. They said that their status quo was fine, their crime rate was lower, and that there was no necessity for the further walling of their jurisdiction.
Also, he didn't mention that further walling would destroy many El Paso border properties and families lives, by taking their property without their voluntary permission through eminent domain.
After he finished, he flew back again on America's dime, to his big white house in DC, totally ignoring the will of the people of El Paso TX.
Just another day's work and fairy tale in the life of our pretend President, on all of our taxpayer's taxes.
42
"Mr. O’Rourke addressed a crowd less than a mile from the El Paso County Coliseum, where the president spoke to thousands of cheering supporters."
Is the omission of the size of the crowd addressed by O'Rourke an admission that it was significantly smaller than the thousands addressed Trump?
6
@Wolfran El Paso police estimated O’Rourke’s crowd at 10-15 thousand. Trump spoke to a capacity crowd of 6,500 and said there were thousands more outside.
6
Has Trump lied about the size of his crowd yet? Has he lied about the size of O'Rourke's crowd yet?
17
There are a lot of people across the country that believe illegal immigrants take jobs away from US citizens and help suppress wages by working for less money. They also believe they are given free healthcare without them paying anything into the system. Finally, they believe illegal immigrants are responsible for a certain amount of criminal activity such as human and drug trafficking. It’s imperative the Democrats take the lead on addressing each one of these issues and prove that they do care about border security and that they have the better plan to once and for all solve these problems without sacrificing our principles and changing who we are as a country all without being overly pious and sanctimonious. They really should talk about it everyday for the next two years.
23
Beto O'Rourke has shown a very interesting way to respond to Trump. Alternative Rally: same place, same time. Whereever Trump goes (Mar a lago) to give his unique views, a major speaker is there to provide an alternate view on the issue. Lets do the same for some members of his cabinet: whereever DeVos goes to tell her views of using public money for private schools, we have an expert to offer the alternate perspective. Wherever these trump enablers go, let us meet them on the same day in the same city at the same time and if nothing else provoke debate on the issues of the day.
22
There you have it: The bloated, old, tired and fearful trump vs. the young, energetic, intelligent and hopeful O'Rourke. What country do you want to live in?
100
I would have liked to see the citizens of El Paso, perhaps led by O'Rourke, form a wall, complete with appropriate props, to encircle Trump's latest theatrical performance. American like theatrical confrontation, which is why we now have Trump reprising his "reality" TV role as Entertainer-In-Chief.
Citizen walls blocking his motorcade would have upstaged his own coverage, the one thing that drives him crazy. Well, if he comes to my town......
The nice thing about West Texas Democrats is that they have more serious and better things to do than cratecircular firing squads. Where are Anne Richards and Molly Ivins when we need them? Actually, Kinky Friedman could do a good job of competing with Trump for the stage, again something that would drive the President to play even more with his micro-tweeter at 4 a.m.
6
The constant lying and bold misrepresentations by this president has come to roost. How do you manage the expectations of citizens when The wall was supposed to be free, and that Mexico would pay for it.
Lies and absurdities are the foundation of the Trump presidency.
27
Who will be given the contract for the wall ?
11
Trump manufactures worlds that fit his needs rather than reality's and humankind's. They are based on creating an environment of fear and distrust among the people he was elected to govern - to divide and conquer them, rather than to lead with honesty, goodwill and a minimum of personal self-interest. He relishes violence and thrives on discontent. He's not at all smart, certainly not smart enough to see the possibility that the seeds of chaos he sows will grow into toxic plants that will bring him down eventually, while leaving a legacy of grief for the country and the world. But the outcome may also be that, inoculated by Trump's virulence, the country eventually will come to its senses and reject the dark, deadly path he seems bent on having us follow. If there's to be a corrective if won't come overnight, nor without more disruption, but unless it comes, the great, fragile experiment called America is doomed.
13
The past versus the future of the United States. One is stoking fear and anger and resentment, the other fortifying the alliances. Not clear which one will win in the end.
6
“He’s supposed to win in order to run,” the president added.
Well, I would say: The POTUS is supposed to respect the office.
Seems what is ‘supposed’ to happen, doesn’t.
17
Regarding the crime information he receive from the Texas AG: What a shame that Trump doesn't have the resources to verify information he gets from a political ally or that frequent source: "someone told me." And we've learned that aides have been instructed not to present facts that conflict with what Trump believes.
22
New Governor, Newsom calls off the National Guard from the Border. The slow dismemberment of 1846, the most unjust war ever (Ulysses Grant). Disappointed that the great Jerry Brown even contemplated let alone doing this. In 20yrs, California will be a Hispanic majority State, wonderfully bi-/multi-lingual, an inspiration for our planet, immense for tolerance, culture, diversity. I want California to drift in every fashion constitutionally possible from this Trump regime of climate warming denial, their war on science, their championing fossil fuels, the war on National Parks, their racism and militarism. Beautiful Mexico constitutes an immense civilization and I foresee in the not too distant an entirely open border between the USA and our great neighbor to the South. Oh, Yes, it's ROMA at the Oscars!
5
As the son & grandson of Italian immigrants I believe we are a nation that welcomes people from throughout the world. We only ask that they enter legally. I don't understand why there is resistance to having a comprehensive plan that will ensure orderly, legal immigration. We seem to be arguing semantics. Is the problem as severe as the President says or is it less. In reality thousands crossing illegally whatever the number is unsustainable and problematic. If there is a tool or resource that is more effective than physical barriers I'm certainly open to seeing it. The status quo is unacceptable.
12
Beto's speech was inclusive and inspiring. His crowd seemed to have a cheerful, positive air. What a nice change from our 'usual' these days.
35
It seems that Trump wants to give the Rio Grande River to Mexico. That is what would happen with a wall. Now we share this great river with our neighbor, Mexico. Water is a precious, life giving resource. The economic value of this river could be quantified, not only to the farmers but to all the service industries that the agricultural community supports. BIG.
23
Interesting that Trump cares about numbers. I have yet to see any numbers for the various women's marches across the U.S. this past January. Could it be because they were not Trump supporters and do not count?
7
All I want to know is who had the bigger crowd. I can think of nothing worse for Trump's ego than to have a smaller crowd.
19
Trump did 36,000 to 6,000, but I’ve heard as low as a few hundred for O’Rourke. Notice the media don’t even mention it.
1
How tone deaf is Trump? He promotes the wall in a community that based on practical experience knows that a Wall is not the answer. Where local leaders from both parties reject the wall thing. Where an exciting young Democratic politician speaks passionately about what makes America great. No wall in his future. Except Trump. And O’Rourke will tear down the Trump wall.
16
Magically, in two years time the emergency at the border will stop. There will be a bilingual silence.
The only sound will be the whoosh from the exuberant exhalations of the largest, happiest celebration ever seen in far-away Washington D.C. at the inauguration of a legitimately elected 46th president of the United States.
55
You know all he cares about is who had the bigger turnout.
32
@moodbeast I wonder how many burgers djt was paying his bused in "supporters". Tin pot con man dictator wannabe.
1
From a practical standpoint, won't the U.S. effectively cede hundreds of thousands of acres of U.S. territory (such as the northern side) of the Rio Grande River in order to construct a wall that is permanent? Certainly, Mexico will not grant the U.S. territory to build wall on to the south of the river.
31
Apparently that is exactly what Trump would do at the Butterfly Perserve- give up land to Mexico- along with Mr Genius having Mexico NOT pay for his wall. No wonder this guy kept going broke.
2
Although the Times may be intentionally avoiding Trump's obsession with crowd size, some estimates might have been nice. The local paper listed Trum's crowd as 6,500 inside (full capacity) with more outside for a total of about 10,000. The Dallas paper said that the El Paso Sheriff estimated the Beto crowd at about 7,500 for the march with more at the park where it terminated. Overall it looks like a draw.
8
We know for certain that Trump lied about it. 35,000 he said. The fire department said 6,500 for #45 and put the March at 10-15 thousand.
4
Fact:. Border crossings over our southern border (northbound) are at their lowest number since the 1970s.
Fact:. The vast majority of undocumented immigrants come here legally with a visa through an AIRPORT, and then simply stay on past the visa expiration date.
There is no immigration problem. We have other problems - healthcare is too expensive, housing is too expensive, billionaires are taxed too little & the rest of us pay their share, climate change is getting worse. Let's work on those real problems, not Trump's fake one.
43
Trump seems to have employed many right at his own businesses- of course.
9
@Carol
Oh, stop it with the facts already. That's so 2016.
Trump has proposed cutting aid to Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador. And that is supposed to decrease our immigration problem. As it is right now these three countries receive more in remittances from families living and working in the U S than they receive in aid. Maybe we ought to increase U S aid. Just a thought.
20
I have just finished watching BBC Two Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil, a three-part documentary detailing the lead up to Brexit, the Eurozone and Greek Crisis, and the effect of the 2015 migration crisis. It is well past time to revisit the 1951 Refugee Convention and update it for the modern era, the obvious issue is that it is unsustainable, even if every single applicant was a genuine refugee deserving of international protection. "We can't take everyone", Angela Merkel tells a Palestinian teenager on a TV broadcast, near the end of the third episode.
5
The company most likely to get the contract for Trump's wall is Evraz, a steel company owned by a Russian oligarch, Roman Abramovich, who is an ally of Putin and a friend of Donald Trump and Jared Kushner. Any surprise that Trump pushes so hard for a wall that will make a Russian friend even richer?
130
@Linda I have been saying this in response to several articles re. trump's wall: that he would build it with Russian steel. I just didn't know the name of the company/oligarch. Thank you for posting this!
17
"The number of monthly apprehensions of migrants at the border has averaged 25,000 to 40,000 for most of the past decade, but has risen to about 50,000 over the past several months, according to statistics compiled by the Department of Homeland Security."
Does anyone not consider this a problem?
If it is not a problem, please tell me why it isn't?
8
@P&L I have read and heard that a lot of the Central American asylum-seekers have, in frustration at being stopped and held at the border for what looks-to-be several months, have, in desperation, crossed illegally into the US and then turned themselves in to US authorities. They are "made illegal" by the trump administration's refusal to honor legal asylum applications.
15
@P&L
My problem is that these statistics were complied by Homeland Security. What counts as a apprehension? Are these apprehensions counted depending on the number of agents involved? Are these numbers "padded" to show the Department is doing its job? "trump's biggest Inauguration crowd ever" should give anyone a clue on what "statistics" mean to this administration.
7
Your figures are nowhere in this article. Cite the actual source please.
This article is clearly that Trump’s figures on crime in El Paso are bogus.
1
Trump says the wall will go right up to the Rio Grande. I know Trump dislikes animals, but to cut off the source of drinking water for wildlife and livestock is cruel even for Trump's standards.
46
@Linda If built as planned the border wall will devastate a wildlife preserve and a butterfly sanctuary, as well as cut off water to livestock and cattle. In other words, it will be an environmental disaster.
26
A steel wall will look like Swiss cheese in a sort period of time.
@Linda It is also cruel to appropriate property by eminent domain from people, many of whom have owned it for generations, to create an idiotic vanity project. Most likely, these "land grabs" would be tied up in courts for years.
5
Let's forget the wall and deal with the problem.
We have an illegal immigration problem in the USA.
We have to come together and fix it.
Illegal immigration has to stop.
Now let's get together and decide on the numbers we are going to legally let into our country each year.
*Support Border & ICE agents - they have a difficult job. Let's not make their job any harder than it has to be.
11
@P&L The most effective way to deal with illegal immigration is to prosecute the people employing and exploiting undocumented workers. We need a total revamp of migrant worker laws and enforcement of those laws. If a person wants to migrate here, they must have a work sponsor and be able to get a work visa. That could also include a path to citizenship if they prove to be an asset to this country. The people hiring someone illegally should face heavy fines and prison time.
7
Trump El Paso rally with thousands in attendance seemed like a beginning of his 2020 reelection campaign. One of his key rivals in the primary senator Ted Cruz was by his side. I doubt any Republican is likely to mount a credible primary fight. Trump can therefore thank the dysfunctional democratic party if he does win his reelection. Firstly, by not passing immigration reform and border security, the democrats have left the table with the issue of illegal entry still on the table for Trump to run on.
Secondly, with so many democrat senators throwing in the their hats in the primary, it will a year before a front runner will emerge. Beto may have had a couple of hundred protesters along with him to protest the Trump rally in El Paso but he may not have much support elsewhere. If Howard Schulyz runs as an independent, a democrat nominee will be toast. So it seems the democrats dream of making Trump a one term president seems like a mirage.
Let us assume that the president in 2020 is not a democrat. It could be a blessing in disguise for the democrats. The party of Clintons should regroup and think ahead about what the party will represent and who their next leader will be in the decade beginning in 2020. Until ten do the people's work. Try to fix universal health care and make it more sustainable and affordable for all. Pay down the national debt. Bring down the cost of college education and make it more affordable. Bring home US troops from foreign wars. Cut spending etc..
3
You can already put Texas, Florida, and now Virginia in Trump’s column.
3
I’ve been puzzled about the lack of protests when Trump holds political rallies so it is refreshing to hear that some protesters held a counter rally in El Paso. I have wondered why there are no marches or protests but I suppose most of his rallies are in Trump friendly venues. I would like to see Trump hold rallies in all parts of America. Seems rather cowardly to just pick friendly places.
44
How can Trump claim that America still needs to be 'made great again' while simultaneously arguing that he's been a successful president?
28
Thank you for fact checking Trump. It comes as no surprise to hear that Republicans, Democrats and border security experts essentially all agree that Trump is lying (or at best misleading people) about the border wall specifically and immigration generally. What surprises me is that anyone believes a word he says about anything anymore
49
Why is no one reporting the number of people attending each event? Seems relevant to me.
29
@Peggy Jo El Paso police estimate 10,000 to 15,000 people at Beto's rally. Trump's venue holds 6,500.
29
@Linda
such great news. thanks @Linda
I believe it when Ann Coulter approves it!
2
Trump has failed again. Lying about the deal, lying in El Paso, lying until he goes to prison.
46
. Beto's rally and attendance: The video that I just saw seemed to have few people. Can the NYT please provide some crowd estimates.
. In contrast, the Trump rally seems pretty big. Again - provide crowd estimates. Should be easy if the seating capacity of the arena is known.
. And I understand that there is a (large) crowd outside of the El Paso arena. Crowd estimates = ?
. Bottom line: Is Beto's rally less significant than is being reported?
9
Comparing the size of two rallies (while interesting) is really not the news story here. That you think it is, speaks to how we have been fed divisive us vs them news feeds that have collectively split the country into two Americas. Perhaps we can focus on facts vs lies and truth vs fiction. A novel idea in 2019 America.
6
@PI Man Actually, The Hill and reporters @ Bloomberg report 10- 15K in attendance for Beto's anti-wall rally and march.
3
Pretty pathetic that a sitting celebrity president would compare his crowd size to that of a private citizen who’s not even in the race. He must feel quite threatened by Beto.
2
Probably the best thing Trump by his low-life approach to leadership is highlight what is wrong with America, which is contrasted by Democratic candidates that highlight what is right with America and what we need to do to correct our faults. What we must understand is that every Democratic candidate has something valid to add to the discussion and whoever comes out on top will likely represent the rest. This is not about one person versus all, it's about one person representing all.
15
If Trump hadn't made the wall an issue, he would have achieved his goal by now. If Bush Inc. taught us anything, it's do it on the down-low.
3
Well pelosi has fully taken the bait on this one and somehow pivoted the Democratic party to an open borders platform. Good grief. So now there's zero chance of turning any of his supporters and his base is even stronger because despite all of his failures they see him as trying. 2020 might as well be over at this point. This is why needed somebody younger and smarter in charge.
10
@Mons Please cite on Democrat who supports open borders. The Democrats support border security. They do no believe that Trump's wall is an effective way to achieve that goal. They support better technology and more personnel. The open borders nonsense is a lie used by right wing media.
67
@Mons
You need to cite a source for Open Borders since it has been debunked a million times. There is no Open Borders policy just as there is no truthful Donald Trump.
63
@Mons FYI - from the beginning, Dems have been pushing for enhanced border security. Indeed, if you read the article you would see that in this draft agreement, the Dems have just agreed to increase funding for improved border security. The only thing they won’t support is a useless, wasteful wall, which no one - not even Republicans- wants
27
I have to imagine Trump's team is trucking in supporters to attend the rally for the wall. The locals know better.
89
That is entirely possible- they should be checking drivers licenses at Trump rallies to see if they are Americans or Russians. Lol.
3
Trump has more than 35,000 at his rally not 6000. Beto has about two or three hundred. Notice the liberal outlets aren’t showing it. So much for the big battle of the rallies.
13
@Edward That would be quite a feat since the arena doesn't hold more than 6,000.
99
@Edward. Hmm About the same ratio of people attending the grifter’s inauguration vs Obama’s.
37
@Edward So, are you attending both? Last picture I saw of the rally with Beto *clearly* has more than two or three hundred.
38
The only statement I want to hear from DJT is his plan to reunite all the taken/stolen children with their families.
104
Amen.
20
I oppose reunification, as I like to think there’s still hope for Barron.
2
@KB The only statement I want to hear from DJT is "I'm outa here".
And the only place I want to see him is attired in an orange jump suit in Leavenworth.
1
Why does NYtimes print “Trump is scheduled to address 6000 supporters” while not mentioning how many supporters Beto is scheduled to address in this article about dueling rallies?
18
@Alex Perhaps because the Times analyzes things on a bit higher level than "the rally that has the most people at it wins". All things are not even remotely equal when looking at the effort of the president and his supporters to make him look good at these rallies, as opposed to locals heading for an opposition rally that is only put up as a contest by the Republicans themselves.
11
@Alex
Trump's campaign rally is at the El Paso County Coliseum, which has a known capacity. O'Rourke's is OUTDOORS at a high school. I'm sure they'll report on it later when they have the opportunity to observe how many people showed up.
7
Time to listen ... to his typical campaign speech. No relationship to the real world necessary.
24
I wonder if those protesting our nation's right to regulate immigration lock their doors at night or print their social security numbers and mother's maiden name on their backs.
7
Framing the immigration debate as “legals” versus “illegals” is a winner. It’s hard to argue a country should break its own laws. Democrats need to hammer home that it’s about the economy, stupid. It is about deciding who gets legal status. Immigrants, like your own ancestors, who come to this country to positively contribute will be made legal, such as farm workers, laborers, and the sort who rollled up their sleeves to keep Trump businesses sparkling.
10
Tonight in El Paso, Beto O’Rourke delivered an impassioned speech of hope, human dignity, a love for his city and its people.
He reminded me of a young Robert Kennedy as he kicked off a presidential run in 1968 empathizing in a manner that Trump can never extend to anyone.
Without ever mentioning Trump by name, O’Rourke demonstrated all that is good about his city and our country as a direct challenge to walls and barriers that the president was supporting just down the street.
O’Rourke is going to be a force for bringing out the best about America in 2020.
107
Too bad almost no one showed up.
2
@Edward: Just wait until he campaigns in Honolulu.
1
The real problem is we let politicians (aka: con men) to concoct solutions instead of simply establishing a goal and asking engineers to accomplish it.
Politicians use issues and problems to get themselves elected and raise money. They couldn't care less if the problem is solved.
Yet, we fall for the same nonsense over and over again. I am amazed humans learned to walk upright.
10
Humans are upright physically but certainly not morally
Distant times. Memories. In 1986, I made my way from South Florida to San Francisco and time and distance set one overnight in El Paso.
All I had ever known about El Paso was the song by Marty Robbins. I arrived after dark and left the next morning before dawn, so the only thing I saw about El Paso was lights near, across the interstate, and lights far away, Mexico, the desk clerk said.
All of the vending machines were either behind locked doors or in cages, access only by my room key. I walked across a few business lawns and parking lots to a Chinese restaurant... the only restaurant open for blocks.
I noticed a number of people hiding in bushes that grew close to the buildings. One could tell that almost every one of the small huddles had at least one child. The way it was, I guessed. When I returned to the motel, I rung up the desk clerk and asked about the people I had seen, poorly concealed, along the way to dinner and back. "No worry, sir" I was informed - "Some every night. Just passing through."
I remember the words and I have never forgotten the "huddles, though I never saw a person. And when I made the trip back through in 1986, I drove on to Ft. Stockton.
Just passing through.
3
Not sure, (referencing the second to the last paragraph) but aren't most opioids either manufactured here in the U.S. or imported by the large pharmaceutical companies? Is not the major problem one of the misuse of both legally controlled substances and prescription drugs?
11
Lots come in the mail from China, also.
The point that most people miss is simple: Donald Trump has spent his entire career building monolithic tributes to his own ego, then slapping his name--usually in lights--on the result. Border security has little if anything to do with his desire for a wall; he simply wants another useless structure that he can point out to others and say, "I built that." If he bankrupts the country in the process, that's just another of his trademarks.
215
@Jim In Tucson: I think he wants to build the wall so he can steal money via kickbacks for him and his Crime Family. Trump, thy name is corruption!
9
Great choice of picture accompanying the article. Mr. Trump is in the room with these folks but he's miles away. He's thinking about lunch in the next room. These presidential duties are so tedious.....
20
Trump loves to be surrounded by people in uniforms. He couldn't be bothered to wear one.
46
@John. Those pesky bone spurs, and, bad people with guns was quite the deterrent.
16
There is a mandatory uniform that suits him - an orange jumpsuit and he can paint a red overly long red tie down the front if he wants...
1
What kind of people still show up for Trump rallies at this point? Is it basically neo-Nazis and Right Wing conspiracy theorists? The FOX News/Rush Limbaugh set? Alex Jones followers?
Is there any awareness that maybe something is not right?
235
@Sam Kanter "What kind of people still show up for Trump rallies at this point?" Obviously, the same kind of people that always have shown up at his rallies.
2
Read up on the Dunning Kruger Effect. It explains a lot about Trump and his followers.
I`m always amazed by Trump supporters. Have they no shame?
The sheer beauty of this may play out in the Trump planned rally in El Paso that will see a counter rally less than a mile away. Would it not be true poetic justice if the counter rally was so large that it encircled the Trump Rally.
Let us all work to keep the rallies safe for all but let the people make a statement that is heard loud & clear, "We do NOT want HATE spread toward Our other brown brothers & sisters by some rich white folks."
If U want to spread LOVE, givesome to those in need. Don't spread hate.
17
The Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States was a treaty signed in Uruguay in 1933.
The convention set out the definition, rights, and duties of statehood. Most well-known is Article 1, which set out four criteria for statehood:
1) a permanent population
2) a defined territory
3) government
4) capacity to enter into relations with the other states
A wall defines our territory. That's it.
I've traveled the harsh border area between Big Bend NP and Presidio along Farm Road 170, and from my perspective it would take quite a survivor to traverse and survive the vast desert on both sides of the river-defined border. Why would this wilderness ever need a wall when the environment is more a physical threat than a 25-foot fence?
For security purposes, federal money would be better spent in visa enforcement. How is it that Third World countries know when tourist visas expire and we do not?
23
I really wonder about the people showing up for trump as being supporters . Some just want to see how absurd he will be.
17
During a SW photo trip I went the border fence along Highway 85 west of El Paso.
It was eye opening to see how jammed together El Paso and Juarez are to each other and that the fence was dead essential to having any hope of controlling the border.
After finding a place to set up I was soon visited by a CBP agent. After explaining my purpose I offered to leave if I was in a place not allowed.
The agent told me I was allowed there but I had picked one of the hottest places in the area for illegals getting into the country and that I was most assuredly under observation by cartel spotters on the Juarez side.
This caught my attention.
He then went on that I was at real risk of being shot dead by them.
This too caught my attention.
I then asked him how, with a 20' fence here and with CBP agents stationed with regularity, was it possible that this was such a hot spot as it looked impenetrable to me.
He just laughed at my ignorance and explained that people would lay in wait in the bushes along the Rio Grande. When they felt an opportunity they rushed the fence with ladders, scale it, somehow drop over into the US without killing themselves, and then disappear into the adjacent industrial area.
He added these people didn’t care if CBP agents were around or not; instead they used a calculus of desperation or experience to pick the moment.
He then told me he would stay with me and protect me while I took my images which I did.
First hand experience teaches much.
12
I just can’t understand why federal workers are being punished because congress can’t do its job and Trump shuts down the government in a hissy fit. Congress should be kept in session until it comes to an agreement. Trump should resign because he is obviously incapable of leading. I know - that will never happen. He loves and gloats in the attention he gets being president. He’ll never give it up willingly. That’s dangerous for our country.
26
Shut it down, Donald. You know you want to, and it worked SO well last time. In the words of a great, real President: " Please Proceed ".
Seriously.
9
Yup fantastically well
Just ask a furloughed federal worker how well
His words could inflame the national debate over immigration, which is already a powerful rallying cry for Democrats hoping to challenge Mr. Trump in 2020.
I can just hear Kamala Harris’ rally chant now: Let ‘em in, let ‘em all in and then we’ll give ‘em free college, child care, room, board and healthcare! For those of you born here, tough luck, I’m running as a Democrat, remember.
By the way, we already do in California, where she’s from. Go figure. Lock ‘er up, or, let ‘em in! Apostrophes is what wins elections.
6
don't you wish he had the same zeal for something Americans want? he promised these things too
infrastructure
lower pharma prices
solve opioid crisis
but bigotry gets better ratings frome base people...
86
All lies Trump just can't stop lying about everything even after he;s told and shown the facts that he is wrong, no his position is even if I'M wrong I;m right as my saying something makes it true . Sarah Huckabee says Trump was chosen by God to be president so if he lies God says its ok to lie cheat steal ,brag cheat on your wife and betray your country if you get rich doing its ok.
15
Why is Pence always staring at dear leader like a puppy dog looking for a treat. It’s getting creepy.
233
@Steveb. Pence is a very interesting man, i.e., creepy, and let's hope when this nightmare of an administration is over he simply disappears from public view.
51
Who’s paying for the rally? Hint: it’s not Mexico.
71
The Trumporables will believe anything he says, so for them, the truth and facts don't matter.
But they do for the rest of us.
50
And the “Complain Rally” resumes after a brief respite since the midterms. We don’t have a president, we have a career campaigner. I hope Beto and El Paso send him a clear message.
72
Hoping for some good theater tonight (making Trump look bad). Go Beto, go!
37
he's not really the president. he just plays one on tv
66
Trump do not know how to "negotiate" at all, and Republicans do not understand that "negotiating" includes compromising, but I do not understand Democrats negotiating tactics at all! How can "a new cap on detentions of immigrants apprehended within the U.S" be so very important right now? Democrats should be able to get permanent protection for all DACA recipients by arguing that a permanent wall would permanently, at least according to Republicans themselves, stop all future "illegal" immigration of children to USA! Democrats should be able to make a wall into a victory for both Trump and Democrats by giving permanent protection to all DACA recipients, something that would make Fox News upset and unable to make a wall into a complete victory, if a victory at all, for Trump!
5
Trump and Tom Brokaw would have you believe that Mexicans bring the worst to the United States, which includes crime and the failure to assimilate.
People in Texas who have viewed the dynamics of assimilation know the real fear is that Hispanics have assimilated too well. The movie “Giant” was filmed in the 1950s when the ruling class in Texas was perfectly content to have poor uneducated Mexican Americans, or Mexican immigrants legal or not, working the fields, the ranches and the like. Deed restrictions and other laws enforced segregation.
When Hispanics became successful by becoming educated with the GI Bill and sought to purchase homes in the neighborhoods with superior education, Hispanics assimilated very well. Their children became doctors, lawyers, engineers, businessmen, and politicians because they attended not only the University of Texas and Texas A & M, but they also were able to get accepted into Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Brown and other elite schools.
They assimilated so well that they became Mayors, Congressmen, and Judges (at all levels of government). Now that political and economic power is no longer homogenous, Trump and Brokow fear the “lack of assimilation” and that people coming to the US are the worst.
The real fear is that there is competition for political and economic power, that such power is no longer reserved for the Anglos of the 1950s.
47
There is at least one thing that you can count on at the rally, Trump will lie through his teeth about everything he says about the El Paso wall.
It's nice to know that he can be counted on for something.
25
THE FACTS SAY residential areas adjacent to areas where barriers are built are far safer. I have no idea why some have the agenda of 'open borders' and not enforcing simple immigration laws.
This was never an issue with liberals until Trump was elected. President Obama was known as the 'deporter in chief' but never received the types of reaction Trump gets for simple immigration enforcement. This tells me the left is using immigration as a partisan issue and painting Trump as a villain for doing what past Presidents used to do with impunity.
8
I wonder how much Trump’s El Paso trip is costing tax payers. Trump seems like he finds ways to misuse the power of the presidency in ways that no other presidents has. Impeachment or the 25th amendment are in the constitution to deal with an dangerous President like Trump. But maybe McConnell is being paid off or is being blackmailed into selling out his country.
25
@Javaforce IMO, McConnell is only interested in seeing this country become and remain more of a conservative-controlled oligarchy than it already is. Trump is just helping McConnell with that agenda.
2
The never ending campaign cycle, does he ever do his job? Isn't America great by now? Then again I really don't want him anywhere near Washington so keep campaigning trump until 2020.
19
Like a mouse with cheese, when Trump goes to do another ridiculous rally, couldn’t they take a detour to the local golf course? It’s the only thing besides bashing Hispanics that seems to put him in a good mood, and with his attention span about as long as a nanosecond, we might spare ourselves the phony outrage and braying idolators that comes with a Trump rally, and thus have a bit more quality in our lives and a bit less annoyance.
22
El Paso is probably a safe city because it is 80% Hispanic and predominantly Democratic.
149
This could be a slow rollout for one of the most unique presidential campaigns in recent times. Beto O’Rourke will have the opportunity to stand virtually toe-to-toe with Trump to launch the first campaign debates on immigration.
Beto seems to have the fortitude and a spine of steel to compete with Trump for the attention of the country.
In a high stakes confrontation tonight in El Paso, I’m betting on Beto to win the night and this could launch his campaign for 2020.
16
can't we just build the wall and trick him into viewing it from the outside...and not let him back in...
38
Trump and his underlings should be held accountable for hiring all those illegal immigrants over the decades. That would be a lot more effective than any wall.
62
Paxton is about as unsavory a character as you could find. His record reads like that of a radical rightwing agent because that's exactly what he is: an avowed enemy of Democracy.
11
Insult a traditionally blue city with lies about high crime rates and then go to that city for a rally to bolster those claims. Only a very large brain could come up with that stroke of genius. Truth is, Trump needs his fix, enthusiastic supporters planted in the crowd or otherwise. Let us hope that Beto and the protestors of the wall and all that the wall represents eclipse the indignity of Trump's circus act.
28
El Psso’s population is 85% Hispanic, including large numbers of illegals. Crime is low. And border crossing to see friends and family is high. Why Trump thinks his wall will be popular there is a mystery. But why anyone would view the opposition to the wall as representative of the general population is likewise a mystery. El Paso is a one of a kind city and the views of its population are not representative of the general public.
13
@michjas .... "But why anyone would view the opposition to the wall as representative of the general population is likewise a mystery."..... Let me explain it to you. Except for the slow witted, most people know that when Trump kept repeating that Obama was born in Kenya, it was a dog whistle to his racist base that a black president is not legitimate. Now at Trump rallies it is "Build the Wall" over and over again. Trump can have money for border security. He can repair existing structures, extend barriers, and put up fence; but he will not get money to "Build the Wall" because most Americans are opposed to create a monument to racism. What side of the wall are you on?
19
@michjas
Yeah, um, the polls show most Americans don't want Trump's wall. You like to pretend to be reasonable. You make incorrect claims like, "But why anyone would view the opposition to the wall as representative of the general population is likewise a mystery." (By the way, you missed a few commas.) Yes, many agree that improvements to border security is good they do not agree that a wall is necessary. Go ahead, provide links to credible sources that show most Americans support a wall. I'll wait.
7
Attention MAGA hat wearing rally attendees. We are developing facial recognition software to make sure you are properly identified as racists, and thereby inhibiting your future earning potential at well paying STEM jobs. How do you like them apples?
120
@MoneyRules I don' think they even know what STEM is, so they don't care. And don't care to learn, either.
MAGA is as MAGA does.
37
@MoneyRules. What a great idea!
3
@MoneyRules
I am impressed that there is software in development that extends the online surveillance capabilities, at the heart of many Silicon Valley products, to read a person's thoughts from a facial scan and detect if that person is a racist. Will version 2.0 be able to detect if prople are Nazis and prefer oranges to apples? Will version 3.0 make sure the are rounded up? You do realize that you are advocating that a police state by algorithm be implemented to harass and discriminate those that displease the laws of If-Then-Or Else. Who needs a constitution, the rule of law, or due process.
1
Corporations like Cargill Meat Solutions and National Beef set up in towns like Dodge City, attracting huge numbers of low-skill immigrants by offering low-wage, poor-condition jobs.
The original inhabitants of the town lose their culture as they are overwhelmed by newcomers, and lose their tax dollars to the influx of new students to their already underfunded schools.
Cargill jobs don’t pay enough to revitalize the economy, so the economic base doesn’t grow. The cycle of poverty continues.
Cargill extracts profit for their Wall Street investors, aided by the Kansas GOP’s refusal to tax companies.
The GOP tells them it’s the “coastal libs” to blame.
Trump tells them it’s the brown people’s fault.
Dodge city votes for Trump.
Rinse, repeat.
38
@Josh Wilson interesting perspective.
5
This immigration travesty is the handiwork of the Joseph Goebbels of senior policy advisors to trump, Stephen Miller. This far-right political activist, erstwhile communications director for Jeff Sessions, is clearly behind this heartless, cruel and unjustified treatment of children at the US border. His evil rhetoric is now manifest in bloody criminal deeds callously perpetrated by the trump administration in plain sight.
37
This President gets a higher rating from Rassmussen and he flees Washington at a time that is crucial due to his total lack of leadership. What are these voters thinking that support him? Friday looms and we know what will happen. But just after that he makes a meaningless speech and the crowd roars in favour. Even his daughter wore white! I just cannot believe how simple some people are. So many things are not taken care of during this administration -- just like Nero, Trump fiddling while America falters.
15
So Roger Stone tells Trump to call for a wall for which Mexico will pay. Trump loves the idea and it becomes a centerpiece of his campaign. So now this asinine wall is a must for Trump’s base and his reelection. This is what American politics has come to.
25
So this is interesting because our family is split on the issue of immigration.
We have lived in El Paso for over 25 years. The city has always been relatively safe. When we first moved here, we were in an area that wasn't safe at night, but even that neighborhood has improved. Now we live in a different neighborhood and we don't think twice about taking a walk after dark. So the President's talk about this being a place with high violent crime is really unwelcome in our household, and I hope he sees El Paso for the lovely place it is during his short visit.
Does the barrier we have in El Paso reduce violent crime? Even the statistics do not site the barrier as the source of changes in violent crime rates, so who knows?
But I do know this - when there was no barrier, it was easier to cross from Mexico into El Paso and then cross back again if you needed to leave the US quickly. Did the barrier stop these crossings? No. But it made them more difficult. How do I know this? We're a Hispanic family who owns a business on the border - we live the issues surrounding the border every day.
My husband and I reluctantly voted for President Trump and we regret his hyperbole, but the barrier in places where the border professionals believe it is effective, is not a bad idea. El Paso will always be a welcoming city and that welcome even extends to President Trump. I just hope he makes a more sensible argument for his immigration policy
89
@Estella
But do the border professional believe it is effective or one of the more effective ideas? Right now all I have seen is propaganda from the White House. When the President lies in the State of the Union about the safety of El Paso, how are we supposed to believe him on policy issues?
248
@Rieux well ask BP They just captured 300 illegals that simply walked over the Pelosi Normandy barriers in the remote area One of many such large groups captured over the past few months. 1700 people were just bussed through Mexico via the government there and right to the doorstep of the border. Now there is another caravan of approx. 12,000 that will soon be heading north. When and where do we stop the invasion of these illegals. Oh you may say they will file for asylum... 90% will be rejected (and rightly so) Most will not bother and simply chose to cross illegally. They need to be met with force, repelled and not be allowed to enter.
15
Bill if you are so terrified of 300 people feel free to relocate to Sweden. not sure if they accept MAGA people, however.
279
No money for the vanity wall. Time to hold out.
15
When faced with facts, Trump doubles down on the lies, sorry " misrepresentation s."
5
Even the Deplorables must finally be figuring out that this guy Trump is a liar, a con a criminal and worse.
27
Doubtful. The thing about cult followers is that contradictory evidence only strengthens their belief. Belief without evidence is faith; belief despite contradictory evidence is ecstasy.
26
@Mark Unfortunately for democracy and freedom around the world, they are not figuring it out. If they were smart enough and/or willing enough to set down their beliefs and prejudices long enough to take an objective look at things, maybe even read a little world and US history, they probably would have 'figured it out' 2.5 years ago. Apparently they possess neither of those qualities. The numbers of his base don't seem to vary much.
4
More than likely a substantial portion of 5 billions+ U.S. dollars on border walls will be good windfalls for construction companies, shell companies and people of interests in the Trump sphere, but not much benefits for the people in U.S. Who will be the ones approve the costs, works to be done and inspections on qualities? Trump administration does not care about border security. It is how much they can funnel tax payer money into their offshore accounts. Unfortunately some cannot or won't heed the facts, but rather senseless rhetorics.
17
President Washington looks very unhappy to be in the same picture as Trump.
42
I think the picture is crying.
11
I continue to believe that history will show that so much of this administration's cruel and unlawful treatment of immigrants is a result of Stephen Miller having had a crush on a Hispanic girl 15 to 20 years ago. Like Trump, Mr. Miller has no idea that most people see that they are " not quite right." So he saw the girl's rejection as having to do with her ethnicity and decided to make it his life's work to punish whole ethnic groups in any way he can.
If anyone can someday develop training for people like Miller and Trump in the art of decency and respectful social skills, the world will be a much better place.
16
@4Katydid:
Miller has already been "trained"; and he's attempting to train others with his bile.
6
The mayor of El Paso: " ... our city's relationship with Mexico has ushered in an era of economic growth and regional participation. Today, dozens of Fortune 500 companies reside in Juarez, the Mexican city on the other side of our border fence ... " (USAToday, 10Feb2019) Another example is H-E-B, a very popular grocery chain here in Texas with 350 stores, no stores in any other US state, but 51 stores in Mexico. Ranked No. 15 on Forbes' list of "America's Largest Private Companies", H-E-B was named Retailer of the Year in by Progressive Grocer. H-E-B is the twentieth largest retailer in the United States, and donates five percent of pre-tax profits to charity. But of course that does not match Mr. Trump's fevered imagination about US/Mexico relations.
60
What is the actual policy Beto and many Democrats advocate.We know what they are against but what are they for. As long as there is poverty migration will not stop. If asylum is based on fleeing violence or persecution in countries people are leaving migration will not stop. Instead of the politics we must address the root causes of what drives people to leave their countries.
Walls, technology, Platitudes uttered by politicians, may be good politics but it’s not addressing the real issues.
4
@Ron
Well said. Our family immigrated to the US quite some time ago and still have family in Central America. We held our nose a bit when we voted for President Trump and our family remains divided on the issue of immigration, but we do agree that the economic and social issues of Central America are a mess. Bringing stable governance to those countries will be extremely difficult, but it is long overdue.
5
E-verify and a guest worker program.
1
Democratic Party take note: this is a prescription to effectively defuse every Trump rally in the future.
Have a big time counter rally at the same place and the same time as President Bone Spurs has his.
Maybe even check his lies in real time coming from his rally, and correct them at our rally almost as soon as the lies fly from his mouth.
It will drive him crazy(ier)!
74
@ScottC Rally vs rally; every time. Punch back at Trump the bully with a counter rally each and every time. Ray Sipe
19
Maybe it will rain tonight and he can enjoy some more executive time on the plane. Because have you seen what rain does to his hair?
5
This country needs to adopt a mandatory e-verify law with tough penalties against those who violate it, that will do the most and right away to stop illegal immigration (and that goes for the Trump organization). If there is a need for more workers, expand the guest worker program. But nobody in their right mind wants open borders, no matter how many fringe folks you dig up. The constant drumming about how people along the border don't want a wall: well, look at who you are talking to. Since the 1990s, when NAFTA ruined life for small Mexican farmers they have streamed across the border, many settling in border states and radically altering the demographics. Cities that were 12 percent HIspanic are now 55 percent, so the claim that these folks don't want a wall of course makes sense to them. But ask most Americans if they want border security, a resounding yes. Ask most if they want illegal immigration, you will find a resounding no. Why is it such a bad thing for our nation to enforce our immigration laws? Now the Democrats want this country to do just that by limiting the number of illegal immigrants that can be detained. Boy the lengths people will go to to spite Trump.
5
@gmt
'Boy the lengths people will go to to spite Trump. '
Hardly. Trump's 'wall' is a waste of money. I don't want to have to pay for it. It'll give the hateful fringe of his base a warm fuzzy, but it won't stop 'illegal immigration'. It won't stop the flow of drugs. Probably won't even slow that down. It's illegal to hire 'undocumented' workers in this country. Right now. Enforce the laws already on the books. Increase the penalties to the point where hiring 'illegals' means going to jail. Means a significant fine. Once there are no jobs for these people, you won't even need a fence.
33
Did you ever hear of the international law on seeking asylum? People fleeing terror in South America have a right to seek asylum in the USA. Why do you care if the US population of South Americans increases. US birthdate is down. It needs strong people willing to work hard and contribute to their new country.
24
@gmt You regurgitate FOX perfectly. The rest of America wants peace and a real country. Not the cesspool Trump/GOP have made of America. Ray Sipe
24
Why fact check Trump? It's a total waist of time. And if the people of El Paso want to stop Trump's wall, show up in large numbers to Beto's happening. You won't need a fact checker there either, but for the opposite reason. No one in El Paso should let Trump push his lies about criminal activity and the desperate need for a wall. Come on folks, make Trump's crowd seem like an unpopular child's birthday party.
31
Oh my gosh, but there is a terrible, terrible EMERGENCY at the border!! How can the Secret Service allow POTUS to get so close?? Don't they know???
476
@Paul McGlasson
Seriously! Our Commander in Cheetos is essentially in a War Zone. Heads down.
10
Immigrants and especially illegal immigrants have always been exploited by powerful interests -
at one time in sweatshops, but now in kitchens, hotels, agribusinesses. Most come to America hoping for a better life for their families and children. In the past and now with Trump, they have been used by demagogic politicians to stoke fear, hatred, and racism.
These politicians cynically exploit the fears of their supporters to maintain power and control and disguise the emptiness and ineffectiveness of their political and economic programs. Trump’s wall is the symbol of the political cynicism of Trump and the utter bankruptcy and depravity of his Republican Party. The wall has no usefulness except as a political diversion to maintain power and political control while in actuality they are enacting tax and economic policies that benefit the rich and powerful!
575
@IN I would extend that to LEGAL immigrants also. Chinese, Irish, East Europeans were brought in legally when cheap labor was needed. And they were vilified, but where would be be without the railroads, the Erie Canal and the steel mills?
66
@ellie k.
I also think in the future there will be a need for legal immigrants in elder care.
26
@moodbeast The future is here, we already need them.
2
Perhaps we could construct a "wall" made of Trump's bluster. As refugee families of color approach it's farcefield, they would be rebuffed by the repulsive energy flowing through him to the blust barrier. Of course, he would need to stay there to maintain it.
Yeah, Blust that wall!
22
Why is it possible for a president to shut down the government? For any reason?
How can he, without congress, enforce and implement his pet project?
Neither of these actions should be allowed!
This idiotic behavior must be stopped forthwith, by whatever means necessary.
195
@julia
The shut-down could have been stopped on Day 1, but Mitch McConnell didn't have the guts to stand up to the brat in the White House.
9
Trump has abdicated any semblance of responsible governing. Wasting taxpayer money to essentially make a campaign trip cross country to El Paso, pushing his dystopian vision of vindictiveness and cruelty. Trump does not represent any of the values that have made our nation unique and special.
1324
@alank Trump is a con man preying upon the gullible; whipping up hate; anger and fear. We must push back against Trump; GOP and the base. Push back; hit; kick and do not accept Trump's garbage. Ray Sipe
326
@alank "Trump does not represent any of the values that have made our nation unique and special." True, but he represents the current Republican values as evidenced by their acceptance of all things Trump does/says. They most push-back you see from Republicans even to Trump's worst is a shrug and a 'meh'.
51
@alank I still find it hard to believe otherwise decent people, still support trump and his misguided, uninformed vanity project, his wall. Three quarters of the American public know that money should be spent on things that improve the quality of life: Medical care, infrastructure, education, protecting the environment. Trump is out of touch.
69
After you watch Trump attempt to con the nation.....again......through distortion, exaggeration and abject deceit, be sure to tune in to Beto O'rourke for actual facts and truth. How pitiful is a nation when its leader must be fact checked each time he opens his mouth? #sad
178
Who were the geniuses on Trump's PR team that suggested El Paso would be just the place to stage a campaign rally style event to demonstrate the necessity of a "Wall" ? El Paso saw crime drop by 34% prior to the wall that was built in 2008. It had largely rid itself of the kind of issues Trump will be talking about. The mayor of El Paso has pushed back and their native son, Beto O'Rourke, will be there leading a counter demonstration. The optics for Trump will be terrible. Despite that, we can count on Trump to tweet how much the people loved and agreed with everything he said. Still, anyone that can look at the 2009 inauguration of Barack Obama and his own very pitiful crowd in 2017 and declare his was bigger is so delusional, he can convince himself of anything.
114
@Doris2001 The Dallas paper reports the geniuses got the idea from the TX AG, who misrepresented El Paso’s history. He also is presently under federal indictment for securities fraud. Seriously. You can’t make this stuff up.
11
@Stephanie-Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, who is out on bond, deserves his own investigative series splashed across the national press. Paxton was indicted for fraud in 2015 but his trials were put on hold while the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals decides whether the prosecutors on the case are being overpaid.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas-politics/2018/06/29/texas-attorney-general-ken-paxton-wont-go-trial-alleged-crimes-before-election-day-experts-say
9
@Doris2001
Once Trump grabs on to a lie he continues to repeat it, even in the face of irrefutable evidence, so as to never back down and never admit being wrong--regardless of whom it hurts or destroys. His followers (90% approval rating among Republicans), amoral corporate lobbyists,, fundamentalist "moral" Christians, celebrity journalists and tv personalities who hitched their personal "brand" to Trump, the uber-wealthy and the uncommitted neutral voter who can't be bothered to learn the issues will all shrug their shoulders and say--"gee, maybe he's right," rather than, "gee, maybe he's a psychopathic liar who can't be trusted." They all have a deep, abiding, self-serving interest in maintaining that the emperor is wearing clothes and thus blithely ignore--and even repeat-- his naked lies.
1
Has the New York Times checked-up on what's happening at Guantanamo lately. Any illegal immigrants (adults and children) being incarcerated there?
When is Kirsten Nielsen going to be indicted for crimes against humanity?
Donald Trump needs to stay in Washington and run the country, and quit inciting and stirring up derision and hate with his obnoxious rhetoric, lies and hate.
We need a President, not a demigod. Do your job Trump, or get out of the way.
43
@Doremus Jessup: It would be best for the country if he did rally after rally (with no media coverage at all) and did not 'governing'. Best to keep him busy with his narcissism/lies outside of D.C. than to have him actually, actively 'working'. Maybe he should have 100% Executive Time for the next two years if Congress won't impeach him.
3
Oh my goodness. It can now be argued, from the data, that the newly famous "Great Wall of El Paso" actually increased crime. Tear down those walls Mr. Trump, and stop the rapists and criminals from entering the U.S.
12
This should become a Democratic norm that we take on this disgrace of a president. Do hope that all Democratic candidates follow Beto's lead and stump and lead protests to counter Trump's race baiting dog & pony shows.
134
@JRR Absolutely. Every Trump Nuremburg Rally gets opposed by a Democratic candidate rally. Same city. Hit back at Trump. Punch. Hit. Kick back at Trump. Ray Sipe
46
I am a Democrat and the wall is not the main problem. And, guns & guards are not the solution either.
The problem is that people are compelled to leave, often, unimaginably horrible conditions because they dream of a better life only to find that they arrive to the United States of America to be exploited, by-n-large, by the wealthiest in agribusiness, construction, in small galley kitchens, and, evidently, by billionaire President’s of the United States in the operation of their hotel, golf, and ‘resort’ chains!
We have created, via failed policy by both parties, a class of people to work but who must work in fear of deportation and that fear allows still further exploitation. And, in the age of Trump, these same people are used as vessels to promote fear, racism, and contempt based only on the color of ones skin for political advantage.
It might not be popular to say this but, I do not think Beto and his billionaire family is the answer. The real stand-off isn’t between these men with links to billions, to power, and to privilege. The real stand-off is between decency and doing what is right for those with no power and no voice.
The wall is not the main problem; the exploitation is. Just ask, when they’re old enough to speak, the almost 6,000 children taken, forever, from their parents.
678
@s.whether The immigration crisis presents us with an opportunity to jumpstart a Marshall Plan for central America and Mexico. Since most immigrants, legal and illegal, are entering the country for economic reasons it behooves us to promote prosperity in the countries they are leaving. One aspect of a Marshall Plan could be to enhance the remittances they are sending back home and to give them a reason to return home. Let's mandate a minimum wage for guest workers that is higher than the current one. Let's say, $15 an hour. Ten dollars goes to the worker and five dollars goes into that worker's IRA to provide an income when he/she returns home. They win. We win. The rich pay more for their groundkeepers, etc.
18
@s.whether
Sorry to tell you that just because you don't like the country you are born in that gives you some right to illegally go to another country. Of course you are not complaining about the coyotes and criminal gangs who target the masses and also bring drugs into the USA.
What is right it to put an end to people paying smugglers to bring them to America. Australia did this be removing areas of migration zones. Landing in the country outside of a migration zone gets you deported. Since Australia reformed its laws they have now processed for more legal genuine refugees than at any other time in history. The illegal economic refugees are not welcome.
5
@s.whether-Exactly. Trump's punitive policies including threats to withhold aid and sanctions--could lead to failed states south of our border. If these countries grow more desperate .expect the pressure on their citizens to leave their home countries to increase. Also expect their leaders to seek out economic alliances with China and Russia, as Venezuela is already proving.
15
The wall should definitely be built. Use concrete. Make it about two interstate lanes width tall.
Then in 2020, the Democrat president can tear it down and use it to repair some of our roads, for about $5b less than expected.
A Trojan horse wall, of sorts.
10
@VtSkier
I don't think you would see a bag of cement poured anywhere the "wall" is supposed to go in 2020. Eminent domain process used by the government will slow significantly any physical monument building / oh the wall..
3
Maybe trump should read The Art of the Deal
6
Looking at the demographics of those protesting the wall during his visit kind of proves his point...
4
By “demographics” you mean “intelligent, moral people,” correct?
43
@Josh Would you spell that out, please? What are those demographics, specifically, and why do they prove his point?
11
@Josh Actually, I take that back. You cannot tell from the photo whether the people are here legally or not. Given the consequences of being caught, I think they're probably all here legally. Your comment on the photograph proves the point that the wall is supported by bigots.
9
Beto if you feel up to it feel free to say the following (feel free to paraphrase): "Go home Mr. Trump while you still have one. Don't presume to lecture to those whose well-being is at stake - on either side of the border. Come 2020, if and when America gets a new leader, it is that person who will be empowered to make the right decision for the country. Until then, we have to put with you and your base which is determined to lead you straight into the pits where there is no success for you."
314
Trump will walk it in 2020, the democrats have become so full of hate that losing is assured for them@Camestegal
3
I don't know, Mike. Hate worked pretty well for Trump, and still does, among his shrinking mainly non-college educated elderly male base.
31
@mike rigby - Yup - all that hate spewing out about health care for all, fair taxation, improving the immigration system so America has good worker citizens for the future. All that "hate" about not ripping babies from the arms of their parents. Got to have the right priorities.
23
The picture nicely conveys the world Trump has constructed....Pence staring at him—something of blank slate waiting to be told what to think or say; people milling around seemingly lost as pawns in another White House photo op; and Trump himself, staring into the distance with his ever present red tie, looking very ill at ease among those he calls his supporters.
89
@Observer
He does dress poorly for someone who is soaking our government for every nickel he can find....
16
The press continues to give Trump free airtime for his lies.
Why?
647
@GenerationXChick
So you and all other citizens of the country - of the world - will know what he is saying, what the president of the United States is saying. You would prefer his words and actions go unreported? A government of secrecy? A secret government? What the hey.
23
@jr
We need to report them the same way we report what Putin and Kim say -- quoting their lies briefly and then saying what our experts think they are getting at. They should report the daily lie count but not the lies unless they are new or unusual or funny.
23
@jr No, absolutely not! But GenX makes a good point. The media could report a synopsis or highlights of the rally rather than provide full live coverage of every single event.
The president knows repeating lies lends them credibility. Providing media coverage so that the president can repeat lies endlessly - to a wider audience increases the damage.
16
The so-called president promised Mexico would pay for his wall. Why is he going to El Paso, when the money he promised is in Juarez?
505
This is the perfect time for Beto to announce that he is running for President!
22
If Beto O'Rourke steals Trump's thunder, he will be called all sorts of insulting names in tomorrow's tweets from the White House. You can count on it. Trump is so predictable.
201
Let’s be clear about who wants to shutdown the government over border wall talks, and that is the grifter in chief. No one else believes not funding our government is the correct way to legislate.
323
@Steveb
You mean "no one else" besides Trump and McConnell, who could have ended the first (?) shutdown.
4
It's time to stop referring to "Trump supporters". Trump is a con artist. His supporters are victims of his con. It would be more accurate to describe them as "Trump's victims".
671
@MR2987
Or Trump’s marks.
50
@MR2987
Problem is we are all his victims.
72
@MR2987 Thank you... that is the best comment I’ve read on these pages since the “con artist in chief” moved into the White House.
17