Talks Over Border Security Break Down, Imperiling Effort to Prevent Shutdown

Lawmakers and aides familiar with the negotiations said the number of beds for housing detained migrants already in the country was the main sticking point.

Comments: 232

  1. Trump is taking us back to square one. He brought us a three week respite so that he could give the State of the Union address he wanted, not because he actually cares about the state of the union.

  2. @NM, NY: Esteemed daughter of the Cairene scholar: what we are witnessing now is the slow, gradual disintegration of the American system of democracy. Even Richard Nixon, who sought to remain in power beyond his two-year term (he encouraged aides to float a proposal that would overturn the 22nd Amendment) wasn't stupid enough to give two middle fingers to both houses of Congress. Watergate was an unintentionally stupid gambit on his part, based upon his hatred of the Kennedys. He feared Teddy might run in 1972. But No. 45 has gone way beyond what Nixon envisioned for himself. Donald Trump has two branches of government firmly in hand: SCOTUS and the Senate. The House has many weapons but when the executive is certain of the Senate and confident enough in the SCOTUS to defend him--right or wrong--we're looking at a caliphate of our own here: lawless, unaccountable "governing" not with "We, the People" in mind but with rural white America and the South--his 35%-40% "base" squarely in his sights. Expect (more) chaos, even anarchy to outrun the erratic thing skittering around the carpet that we have now. And it's only getting started. Before 2020 dawns, I expect he'll stand behind martial law; what else is "emergency powers" for, if not to abuse it?

  3. @NM His State of the Union address was just free advertising for his Trump brand. He continues on as president for the same reason.

  4. @Fourteen - No, I think he is now besotted by the power of office and there are very dark forces that want him there as long as possible. Trump has changed everything by exerting the extraordinary power of his office and is s real danger to our nation and the world. We need some strong leaders from all sectors to push back hard now before it is too late !

  5. Obama used ICE to go after criminals, not your garderner. The Democrats want Trump to back off the anti-immigrant hysteria and deal with immigration rationally. He won’t. His racist base won’t allow it.

  6. @Doug Lowenthal Um, I'm sorry. The Dems have called for ICE to be shut down, support sanctuary cities, and proposed a cut in budget for border security in the latest 'compromise.' I'm thinking you need to read more of the legislation Dems are trying to pass/propose. The anti-Trump, everyone who is Rep is a racist isn't flying anymore.

  7. Do things like this happen in any other civilized country?

  8. @Ronald Stone Define "civilized", please..

  9. @Ronald Weinstein ok then name a single other country where this happens. I can't think of a single one.

  10. @Ronald Stone Not the ones with controlled borders.

  11. Did I miss something? The article did not quote one Democrat. This appears to be talking points for the Republicans to blame the lack of a deal on the Dems. In fact, it sounds written by people watching FOX and their twitter feeds. It's bipartisan talk but not report. Can we have a report that paints the entire picture, please? If the dems are playing a game, citizens need to start flooding the phones.

  12. @Currents I hate to break it to you but if you examine it closely the New York Times is basically a closet Republican publication, always excusing Republicans, always throwing shade on Democrats, especially progressives. (See: Iraqi War) Like all corporations and monied dynasties they don't want to pay taxes. So in the end, subtlety, they always slant towards Republicans. It would be nice if they just sold themselves to Rupert Murdoch - then we'd know where they stand - but that would imply having a conscience.

  13. @Currents Couldn't agree more. "Democratic demands," my eye. They seem to be suggesting to the public that it's time to blame Democrats now. Sorry, but we will not be fooled.

  14. @Ignatz Farad Yow. Kudos to the Times for printing this. I know people who have worked there, and know that they did have a conscience. I read the paper most to note what they report on, not to be told how to think. Our government is basically Republican. At least since Bill Clinton moved the center to the right.

  15. Remember that the immigration issue propelled Trump to victory. Democrats need to be careful here, and not cause a shutdown over the issue of limiting the number of beds for detainees.

  16. @Robert Please explain to me why you think violent criminals should be in detainee facilities instead of confined with criminals in jails and prisons while being deported in the swiftest possible fashion?

  17. @Bob Your reply makes an assumption about my opinion, and does not address my comment.

  18. "In what one Defense Department official described as a surreal scramble over the weekend, Pentagon officials met on Friday and over the weekend to identify which Army Corps of Engineers construction projects would be tapped for money to help build Mr. Trump’s wall if the president declared a national emergency." Everything connected with this administration is "surreal." Let's face it, the president doesn't want a deal; he wants to fan the flames for his base for 2020. Demonizing immigrants and spreading lies about what Democrats object to regarding "detention beds" is Donald Trump's only issue. He can't talk about his tax bill because with April 15 around the corner, a third of the middle class will see how much the bill cost them. So immigration is, as always, his signature concern, the key reason why a deal would deny him the opportunity to stoke fear. All weekend I've heard conference committee members say without Donald Trump, they could easily strike a deal--but he'll always find some reason not to sign it. "Surreal" indeed.

  19. @ChristineMcM I wonder which of his loyal contractors will be awarded the no bid contract to build the wall?

  20. Would this be a good time to remind people that the week before Christmas the Senate passed, with unanimous consent, a clean CR that the House passed with an overwhelming majority. Some time after that Ann Coulter woke up with a head cold and Rush Limbaugh was his usual self and they convinced the president that he should be less accommodating to the American people. Fast forward to 35 days of a government shutdown where 80,000 people worked without paychecks and legislators wrapped themselves in knots trying to accommodate, not the president ,but two people who were elected by exactly zero people. When Hillary mentioned that It would be a bad idea to vote for someone who could be goaded by a tweet I thought she was exaggerating but I was wrong. We now have a president who can't even turn on AM radio without jeopardizing the very government he leads. Pass the CR, override his veto and put him Rush and Ann in their proper place.

  21. @Rick Gage "Fast forward to 35 days of a government shutdown where 80,000 people worked without paychecks..." Make that 800,000+ (You missed a significant figure).

  22. @Rick Gage: Rick, the Republic is in grave danger. Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity and Rushton Limbaugh were not elected by the American people but they have arrogated unto themselves the powers of the executive because we don't have one.

  23. @Red Sox, '04, '07, '13, ‘18, As a white-collar emigrant, nearly 50 years ago ... today's disaster scene, fills me with horror and shame. I have done the all-American thing. I have had a job, I have paid my taxes every year, I have voted (once I became a citizen, 30 years ago)... I have done what all of us here have wanted.. to make a better life. Now we have TV pundits running rings around a cretin - a dunderhead - a self-serving egoist. It makes me weep in shame as to what this country has become.

  24. Those Democrats are so ornery and obstructive. The demands of the king are clear. How dare they try to assert the will of the majority and defy Trump! Republicans, this is on you. Democrats, stick together. Ms Pelosi, ready the hand clap part 2.

  25. its all symbolism. Why can't the Dems do the right thing for a measly $5B, a tiny spec in the immense budget. By not working for border security, by not enforcing immigration laws or seeking some immigration law reform, we are literally favoring illegal of legal immigrants. Asian and European immigrants can't walk over the border, they patiently apply for proper visas. This is discrimination and lowers our ability to bring in talent and skills we need; indeed we settle for chaos and confusion. City rules and laws contradict federal laws, states too. Its wacky. only in America, folks.

  26. @Joe Yoh Perhaps they would if land rather than oceans kept them from reaching America. As it is, visa overstays are hardly limited to Latin Americans. According to the latest edition of the Department of Homeland Security's annual "Entry/Exit Overstay ReportL About 40 percent of the student/exchange visa overstays in 2017 were from just four countries: China, Saudi Arabia, India, and South Korea. France and the United Kingdom were the countries with the largest number of Visa Waiver Program (VWP) overstays in 2017, with 16,456 and 25,694 respectively. So much for Asians and Europeans all patiently waiting their turn.

  27. @Joe Yoh You're right, the wall is symbolic. Symbolic of one man's insane vision that a giant wall will keep people safe. It's a fact that more people are killed by disaffected white American men and boys with guns than all the immigrant crime combined. Have you considered that Asian and European immigrants could fly to Mexico or Canada and walk through any border crossing they choose? The problem isn't the southern border, it's Stephen Miller and the White House spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt to try and fulfill Trump's campaign lie that he would build a wall and Mexico would pay for it.

  28. 'This is discrimination and lowers our ability to bring in talent and skills we need' Last time I was in the States I noticed that all the people who did the menial tasks - cleaning my hotel room, stacking shelves, fixing the air conditioner - were almost always Hispanic. The sad truth is most of the people coming across the border illegally work hard at the jobs that you white Americans are 'too good' to do. If you didn't have all that cheap slave labour, America would crumble in a heap. And for the record, didn't Trump limit legal immigration? So much for all those 'talents and skills' you need coming from Europe or Asia, huh?

  29. If the gov't closes again, I expect everyone starting with Trump to resign!

  30. My message to Democrats and Republicans is that we need a deal now. We need to move on to address many pressing and hugely important issues affecting our society, our democracy and our place in the world. There are many issues regarding immigration and border control that can be used by hardliners as dealbreakers. Don't do it. Make the deal you can make now and let's, for the sake of our nation, move on.

  31. @allanrp Send that message to the Republicans in the Senate, who have the votes to override a Trump veto of a deal if they have any sense of responsibility to beef up their minuscule courage.

  32. Their job is not to please the President. Their job is to oversee and fund protecting the US while abiding by the Constitution. . .and pass legislation to do so.

  33. @VM Sorry to spoil it, but the USA is fascist oligarchy, not a democracy. All three branches of the Federal government now represent first and foremost the directives of multinational lobbyists who-- themselves represent the interests of their corporate boards. "Abiding by the Constitution..." Can anyone really believe that is why the Mitch McConnells of the world love their power and ability to obstruct justice-- because they care about American citizens? This is the golden age of unhinged greed in America and everything is for sale including her taxpayers. Too bad people still cling to their belief in "The Constitution" like it's a gun, or a religion. It is easily to exploit such believers. And exploited they are.

  34. Miller's plan is to militarize the border. Only a structure separating US and Mexican territory is involved in his 'plan', nothing said about technological strategies to better enable border security, nor any other aspect of our plans for humane treatment of asylum seekers. US citizens need to organize a strong challenge to our military leaders demanding their refusal to respond to such a deceptive hoax.

  35. @Sonora doc The plan may be to militarize the border. After all, since we spend around $717 billion per year on our military/"defense", we need to put all those troops somewhere.....maybe this is part of Trump's plan in pulling troops from Afghanistan and Iraq. But then your guess is as good as mine in this Alice in Wonderland world.

  36. So. Stephen Miller wants to,argue that the Wall is needed to protect the 5500 troops at the border.Where else do we send troops and then build a wall to protect them.?They are there to bolster Trump’s threats and used as a visual shield.Why is it such a problem to take the billions and hire border control in sufficient numbers and hire and train immigration judges.Trump thinks that a structure is the solution to all problems-he can only see buildings and walls-so much for diplomacy and negotiation.

  37. @Janet michael The troops are probably being used illegally anyway. They are legally forbidden to be used for domestic law enforcement. That may mean enforcing domestic laws.

  38. Protecting the border is not domestic policing. foolish argument.

  39. @mkm Foolish reply; it's not a foolish argument and it may have to be adjudicated.

  40. I am out of patience. I wonder how many shut down threats it will take to send the economy into a recession. I know that I personally am not doing the investments in my house I intended this winter (nothing luxurious - just past due maintenance and infrastructure). I feel bad for the local business owners who won't be repairing my home, but I am too nervous to spend. Certainly not getting that home equity loan I intended. Multiply me by a reasonable number of government workers and contractors and we can expect layoffs, no?

  41. @Lydia I think you're right. The right wing wants to shrink the government, and they're just going to keep allowing this to happen until it's a shadow of itself and is no position to do anything but rubber-stamp the military and let corporations run wild. It's true that this shutdown drama didn't start that way, but now the people who run this country see a way to use it to gut the government, and that's what they're going to do. As I've said before in these threads, the GOP has decided they are going to be in charge no matter what, and they are going to shove their horrible ideas down our throats until we stop fighting. There's no way out of this at this point except revolution, and that would surely only make things worse.

  42. @Lydia layoffs, decreased tax revenues on the Federal state and local levels - -decreases first by the "tax cut", then by fears about the effects of random tariffs increasing the cost of operations for companies, and the effect of the US pulling out of trade agreements, then by the first shut down. Cripple the government, then attack more programs.

  43. No statute allows the president to violate the purpose statute, emergency or no emergency, to build a construction project that Congress has already refused to fund. A statute, however, makes a knowing violation of the Purpose Statute a felony. It is called the Anti-Deficiency Act and is well known to federal government lawyers, having been around in some form since the post-civil war era. I don't know why the media never mentions the Act in stories about Trump's threats to "bypass" Congress's constitutional Power of the Purse.

  44. This is Trump's 'valentine' to us: he loves himself far more than he loves our country.

  45. "... a Democratic effort to force Immigration and Customs Enforcement to focus on detaining migrants with criminal records instead of people who have overstayed their visas by limiting the number of beds it has in detention centers ..." Mr. Trump, his Trump McConnell Republicans, Fox, and the Trump base will never sign off on a bill that is humane. They do not think these folks are human. The Democrats are doing the right thing: Imprisoning folks including families and children whose only violation is crossing the border without permission (a misdemeanor) is wrong. Imprisoning folks who are applying for asylum is wrong. That is a violation of our own laws which require us to consider each and every application for asylum. Putting folks including families and children in these privatized ICE prisons is wrong. The food is often literally rotten. The temperatures are kept extremely low as a punitive measure. And the residents are extorted into serving as slave labor. Turning the misfortunes of these immigrants--families and children--into a for-profit enterprise is wrong. No matter how much these companies donate to the Trump Republicans. Ripping children from these families who are applicants for asylum is wrong. Ripping children from families whose only wrongdoing is crossing the border without permission is wrong. ICE agents mocking crying children who have been ripped from their families is wrong. What in the world is wrong with these Republicans?

  46. @Robert I agree totally but changing the subject and switching to a discussion of detention beds is also wrong. Get the the deal done without a new reason for a shut down and live to fight another day.

  47. Living in the USA, is like an old Twilight Zone episode. Just did my taxes, about a ten per cent less of a return from last year. Another shutdown looming. Trump doing everything that he can, to bankrupt the USA, like one of his many businesses. Every election is now like a conqueroring army, to the victor. The losing side is punished, with higher taxes, less representation. Clue, the wealthy never lose.

  48. @Fausto Alarcón So true. Trump's and the GOP's Tax Cut which mostly benefited corporations and the wealthy will add more 100 billion dollars per year to the national deficit over the next decade, according to the National Budge Office. The often repeated GOP pipe dream that the tax cuts would spur growth in the economy that would more than pay for the tax cuts, and that all Americans would see the benefits from it, is a sad joke. The truth is, that it will leave the government financially crippled. There will be no money for national infrastructure improvement, Medicare, Social Security or anything else. The Trump and the GOP have sold out average working class Americans and seriously jeopardized their future health and financial security as well as their children's.

  49. So, was the $5.7 billion just a grossly inflated demand, that could be grudgenly lowered to $2 billion? Ie, was this a big bargaining trick, made to seem valid after shutting the government for 35 days. Did we ever learn what specifically it would be used for? Ie, how many miles of steel fencing, which could be validated? And what will the $2 billion accomplish? A third of the original wall or will it result in a wall covering the entire border, the very thing that Trump wanted.

  50. It’s called compromising. Trump is taking something that is not exactly what he wants, but is willing to take it, to move things forward. Pelosi would do well to learn that same technique.

  51. @Doctor It's not compromising if he only needed $2 billion to begin with.

  52. The insanity of expecting Trump's administration to stop doing what they are doing because of a lack of beds is ... asinine. Tents, mattresses on the floor, space blankets ... all of these things are a clear reminder of what the problem is ... and it has nothing to do with, nor will it be addressed by, legislating fewer beds. Stop playing his game, act like you understand you are the legislative branch, so LEGISLATE!

  53. The GOP had two years in control of all branches of government to pass bills to deal with this "high priority crisis". Go ahead--shut down the government again. Within days, flights will get cancelled across the country, the jet-setters will whine about the inconvenience, and somebody will do something. Maybe. America is exceptionally... stupid.

  54. Poltical compromise always entails compromising on your values, to the extent values inform policy. IF the GOP has compromised on wall funding (and it appears it has, considerably), and IF ICE bed count really is the snag now (and I note, as someone commented here did, that not one Dem was quoted in this article, which I’m not sure what to make of), I hope Dems - and I say this as a Dem myself - can compromise to a degree on this. Let’s not get unnecessarily self-righteous and say we will never compromise on our values, because if this is the case, politics is not your game, nor, for that matter is life with other humans.

  55. Since the well being of illegal immigrants is their only purpose in Congress, why don't the Democrats enact legislation to do away with any border checks and controls? That way all immigration would be legal and any wall debate a moot point.

  56. Astonishingly weak journalism. Perhaps the NYT can explain to readers exactly what this debate about ICE beds involves. (To its credit, the Post tries, without much success.) Otherwise, it is not possible for us to understand what might cause another shutdown.

  57. @Perspective The Post fails at an explanation to, because there is nothing logical or fact based in the Republican position, it is nonsense.

  58. Why are we hearing only from GOP senators in this article? Surely there is a Democratic perspective as to the reasons for the impasse.

  59. Democrats, don’t give Trump ANY fig leaf for his wall— Not even a tiny one to hang from his ponderous folds of lies.

  60. @srwdm "...fig hang from his ponderous folds of lies." The mental imagery is horrific.

  61. @oldblackdogs Yes... exactly appropriate.

  62. NO. Let the fake president/billionaire pay for it. Let HIM collect contributions from his Fans, he can even keep a commission. Please Proceed, Donald. Show everyone just how " really, really smart " you are, you big, beautiful, stable genius. Thanks, GOP. You OWN him.

  63. The faction formerly known as Democratic Party is playing games. According to them, our sovereign borders and immigration laws aren’t worth defending or enforcing, but only because Trump wants to defend and enforce them....resistance for the sake of resistance. What should be a bi-partisan no-brainer in the best interests of the American Citizenry has become a Leftist rallying cry in service to their obsessive anti-Trump agenda. We’ll see how that works out when the government shuts down again in the coming days.

  64. Yes it’s become such a huge issue as soon as it became a Democrat majority congress. Not once have you or any trump supporter asked why this hasn’t been worked on for the last 2 years when he had majorities across the board. I am amazed at the lack of understanding of what this man is doing from the right. Truly truly disgusting.

  65. @Shenoa "According to them, our sovereign borders and immigration laws aren’t worth defending or enforcing," This is simply not true. Depending on one's point of view it is either a factual error, a blatant lie, or a combination of the two that has entered the catalogue of wild statement made about Democrats wanting open borders without limits. It's hogwash

  66. @Shenoa Give me a break. His own intelligence EXPERTS didn’t bring up the southern border as a threat until, like, item 50 or 60. It’s Trump’s manufactured crisis and fear of his base is driving this madness.

  67. Let's hope that the Democratic bid to limit number of detention beds for illegals already inside the country is a bargaining chip that will be tossed at the last minute. Even so, it makes the party look like they want to protect illegals and make the whole country a "sanctuary city" for all but violent offenders. I am a lifelong Democrat who would never vote Republican for dogcatcher, but this demand is bad perception politics if Dems hope to win voters who are not so loyal. Immigration policy and rhetoric remain the only major issue I disagree with Democratic leadership over and my dissent boils down to this: We are a nation of laws. Anyone inside our borders who broke our immigration laws to get in or stay in should be brought to justice, humanely and with due process, but effectively. Either change the laws or enforce them. Democrats should not be selective enforcers of our laws.

  68. I completely agree ... and I am a fellow Democrat ... at least for now ..

  69. @abigail49 It is a "sanctuary city" policy. They will have zero credibility on illegal immigration, if they don't already.

  70. Seriously? The president is going to suggest that the wall must be built to protect the military from marauding bands of starving women and children? How absurd can this get?

  71. And where in the Government couch cushions do the "fiscally conservative" REPUBLICANS plan to find the $5.7 Billion? Plus the additional monies for the Immigrant Detention Center Contractors. Democrats should insert a wealth Tax in the bill to begin to pay for this. We'll let you have your wall if you let US (Democrats) choose how to raise the money.

  72. @Karl, The large businesses that hire lots of illegal laborers should be heavily fined to pay for border security.

  73. As was stated a while back, the "build the wall" theme was really started as an applause line that got the Trump faithful all riled up at his rallies. It was something the candidate could remember easily and it always got a big response. With that perspective, it is clear that the idea was born of ego and simplistic electioneering, not of a real need or purpose. And yet, here we sit. Waiting for the government to fail in its obligation to its citizens (again) because one man, and one party, are simply unable to act like adults.

  74. @Clyde Mexico will pay Mexico will pay and they clapped and cheered even louder watching from down under we just went "how is that going to work - oh it ain't". We never understood how people actually thought Mexico would pay.

  75. @Clyde Building the wall was the tiny Trump promise. Making Mexico pay for it was the really big deal. Show me the pesos!

  76. @Blackmamba Wow Blackmamba - I think that may be my favorite line of yours: Show me the pesos!” Excellent!!

  77. What the Democrats should be doing is including other immigration-related policy, like DACA, with these border security negotiations. Sunce Trump et al are using funding appropriations bills as extreme leverage in an attempt to try and force riders for border security spending, thus effectively turning funding appropriations bills into the de facto main stage for immigration policy, then Democrats must respond to this tactic of attempting to isolate wall spending from compromise on DACA or Dreamers, by including it now. Funding appropriations bill are supposed to pass in ‘regular order,” that is, for budget authorizations Congress as previously legislated. But Trump and the GOP are trying instead to hold hostage these appropriations to force riders for new spending that has not been authorized in previous legislation for it. It’s an end run around regular order, twice. So, if they are now abusing procedure to try and avoid actual regular order immigration legislation, and the compromise that goes with it, like DACA or Dreamers, but instead they want to peel off wall money exclusively from any compromise on other reforms, then Democrats ought to recognize this strategy and not continue to let the Republicans frame these negotiations as only about the wall. They are the party using appropriations as a de facto immigration platform, so meet them there with the rest of the immigration policy reforms that have always been part of compromise comprehensive bipartisan proposals.

  78. If true, this is ridiculous. The Democrats will close down the government instead of allowing the government to enforce the law? If you are here illegally, you need to leave, willingly or otherwise. Trying to prevent deportations of people here illegally by limiting beds is an insult to every law abiding American citizen. The Democrats aren’t going to lose in 2020 because of Virginia or Venezuela. They are going to lose because they continue to favor immigrants, legal and illegal, over the people who can actually vote.

  79. You seem confused. Trump would potentially close the government, again, as he has threatened. Trump negotiation- give me my wall, or as a compromise, give me my wall. A campaign punchline.

  80. Dems have offered billions for border security, but not for a useless wall to satisfy trump's ego. The majority of Americans get that.

  81. @MyjobisinIndianow, maybe Dems feel it easier to import votes for themselves than work to create them for themselves at home with sane policy. One bed, one vote, is what dynasties are made of.

  82. If the president believes he can get what he wants through a declaration of emergency, what legal or moral justification is there for forcing government employees to once again work without pay? Why freely choose the one of two options that works such pain on innocent millions when he insists he has another option that does no harm to any innocents? Is this a difficult argument to understand?

  83. Please resist your desire for drama and hyperbole. They don’t really work without pay. They get paid when the government reopens. The best way to phrase it is that they work with delayed payment. The ones that don’t work also get the free extra vacation—and still get paid, just later.

  84. If Trump could viably declare a emergency, he would have already done it. He’s cornered. Skip the media theatrics, keep saying NO.

  85. You apparently missed the hundreds of thousands of government contractors that cannot collect back pay, or the thousands of small business owners and their employees that have been damaged by Trump’s stunt. Read.

  86. How did we even expect any compromise? The Republican right and Trump are accountable for having created the conditions for a breakdown in the agreement process by making their wall and an inhumane zero-tolerance policy as central, even non-negotiable, issues. No reasonable person believes that Trump and his followers genuinely care about the well-being of Federal Employees. The only thing that seems certain is that the constant body blows delivered against good governance that began January 20 will go down as some of the darkest pages in our history.

  87. Trump is the one that compromised to end the last shutdown, and he has significantly reduced his funding stance already in this round of negotiations. As I read it, Trump is compromising already, and Pelosi is causing another shutdown due to her rigidity. (And before you start in about be being a stupid Trump voter, so common in the geography-ist views of the regional/coastal NYT readership, I’ll tell you that I voted for Hillary, even though I wanted to vote for Sanders. It’s not that I don’t have the democratic viewpoint, it’s just that I can’t deny what my eyes are seeing.)

  88. @Doctor. But aren't the mexicans paying for it ?Give me a break that trump compromised. And remember how the repubs just had the house? Hmmm, what went wrong there?

  89. @Doctor the 2018 House, the Republican!! House gave him a wall-less budget with $2.5 B for real, effective, border security. He rejected that Republican budget and caused the shutdown. And he's still not spent millions and millions available for security. Clearly security is not his issue, pure 'winning' ego is.

  90. “...a Democratic effort to force Immigration and Customs Enforcement to focus on detaining migrants with criminal records instead of people who have overstayed their visas.” Wait; I thought all Donald Trump and his Republican vigilantes wanted was a stay of the “criminal caravans” and the MS-13 fans at the border. So, let me get this right: the Democrats want to deny migrants with criminal histories into the country and be more lenient with those who have run out of time to renew their visas. And the Republicans are angry that Democrats want fewer criminals to cross the border? Am I missing something here? And this president is spluttering about “Dems…want a cap on convicted violent felons?” He’s lost me. Mr. President, not all the detainees are “convicted violent felons” except that they exist in your own mind. The money at the border is necessary for the administrative functioning of the problems: personnel; judges; infrastructure, such as upgraded facilities and roads and vehicles and, yes security, but not provided by the American military. What you really want is another shutdown so that you can say, “I told you so” before you invoke the “emergency powers clause” so you can proceed to do whatever you want to do. You lost to Nancy Pelosi two weeks ago and you’ve been listening to the right-wing media fry you like an egg and now you want a do-over. Tellingly, Republicans “have yet to make a counteroffer.” Are they waiting for their marching orders from you?

  91. If every business which employed illegal aliens, including Trump properties, had to be shut down every time whim overtook Trump's decision-making, there would not be shutdowns over this issue. It is lunacy overtaking rationality. I am glad that it at least is described as "talks" rather than "negotiations" as "negotiations" implies good faith and compromise. If Trump cared about the issue he would have been tolerating the mass hiring of undocumented aliens at his own properties. What fools we mortals be, indeed.

  92. " Democratic effort to force Immigration and Customs Enforcement to focus on detaining migrants with criminal records instead of people who have overstayed their visas by limiting the number of beds it has in detention centers ..." How is it possible that so many Trump-leaning commenters on this article have managed to read this passage and interpret it to say that the Democrats are proposing letting in more migrants with criminal records?? It says the exact opposite. I know our President doesn't read, but surely subscribers to the NYTimes ought to be capable of basic reading comprehension. Trump has ushered in a post-literate age, and I don't know how we come back from that.

  93. Let's go back to the headwaters of this fiasco. Trump rides down his golden escalator and makes his speech about Mexican rapists. During the campaign, in order to help him remember to mention this bogus issue, someone came up with "The Wall" as a helpful focus. It could have been "let's fix all the unsafe bridges", but that wouldn't have had the same ring at his rallies. So, along with locking up Hillary, The Wall became a symbol for everything wrong with America that the Great Negotiator would fix. Inconvenient facts like illegal crossings going down, most illegals having come in as tourists and overstaying their visas, drugs coming in by mail from China or via ports of entry - none of that matters to Trump. So he created this false narrative and staked his reputation on an issue the majority of the American people do not consider important, and now the Republicans are afraid to tell him that the emperor has no clothes? He painted himself into that corner and the paint will take a very long time to dry. Go Nancy and Chuck!

  94. @Pat...don't forget to add "Mexico would pay for IT"!

  95. Another shut down and the press will again start to produce tear jerk stories of those government workers who can't make the mortgage. The real story ought to be why after 8 years of Dem rule is the economy so bad that people are still living paycheck to paycheck. Honestly, I see no benefit whatsoever in what the Democrats are doing that can help anyone in this country. Why are they doing this over a paltry 5 billion? Who are they representing? Certainly not anyone I know. Trump can build a wall 100 feet high and 10,000 miles long and I would never know or care.

  96. “Paltry 5 billion” but Republicans said “Not enough money” for hot meals to shut in seniors and health insurance for children.

  97. Beware! Trump is not bargaining in good faith. He will milk the taxpayers for whatever money he can get for his wall, then declare his "emergency" (which is really not an emergency) to augment what he milks from the taxpayers. You think your taxes are higher than you expected this year, just wait until you find out what the Republicans have stolen from you next year. They'll pick your pocket again to build Trump's wall. See you at the polls in 2020.

  98. Let's hope that compromise can reached and this sordid moment in history can literally and figuratively be "put to bed." We certainly don't need the master of "The Art of the Raw Deal" chiming in with his blame tweets when he's caused the entire shutdown situation because he only seems to know how to break deals rather make deals. Given the Trump focus on "border security" and keeping criminal hordes from entering, it would seem that the number of beds necessary for detention would be known. It time to #MakeDemocracyWorkAgain.

  99. Wait, the government re-opened? Missed that. Oh well, back to my well-provisioned cave.

  100. Who thought any compromise was possible? If you did, you haven't been paying attention. The Republicans consider compromise a "four letter word", and Trump has made his wall a bedrock promise to his ignorant base. Federal workers should be ready for another shut down, thanks to Trump and the Republicans, both the biggest danger to our country since the Civil War.

  101. Funny how when the Republicans had majorities in the House and Senate there was no state of emergency on illegal immigration. And on another subject we're all still waiting for Trump's "best healthcare bill" to replace the ACA too. The Republicans cannot govern.

  102. @susan Trump talked about the problems at our border throughout his candidacy.

  103. And Trump had the majority in the House and Senate and still did NOTHING on immigration. When are Trump supporters going to stop making excuses for him? He is incompetent.

  104. Does anyone actually have figures for how many "convicted violent felons" are being held in ICE custody? If the 16,500 figure is more than enough to cover those people, the GOP argument that the Democrats are wanting such offenders to be set free is revealed as totally absurd. Of course, people who are currently incarcerated in state or federal prisons would not be part of whatever that figure might be....ICE has nothing to do with that. So, essentially, we're talking about undocumented people who have been convicted of violent felonies, yet are not currently serving a prison sentence. My guess, and it's just that, is that the number of "convicted violent felons" that ICE has in custody is significantly lower than the number of beds mandated by the Democratic proposal. If that is incorrect, it would be perfectly easy for ICE to release the actual number.

  105. The real problem here is the Democrats, with new sporty 40, dont have the votes to support anything except open borders. There is no compromise Pelosi can deliver the votes on. It will require a block of Democrats voting with the Republicans to break the impasse. Once the leftist wing of the Democrats get boxed out this a compromise vote they have the gun powder to take down whats left of Pelosi's centrist wing. This is more about the civil war amongst Democrats than it is about Trump.

  106. mkm, no Democrat supports open borders. That is a malicious mind of simple-minded partisans. They have appropriated billions over the last fifteen years. Democrats do not want to waste money on an unnecessary wall but rather focus on effective border security.

  107. @mkm "There is no compromise Pelosi can deliver the votes on." ******** The leftwing is taking the Democratic Party down and the country with it. Americans do not support open borders. Trump will make mincemeat out of them.

  108. @jonathan - According to the Article you are commenting on. Democrats want to limit the number of those illegals to detention to those who have a criminal record. Otherwise its open borders. This is neither malicious or simple minded; it is the fact of the Democrats position.

  109. To protect the 5,000 troops? LOL

  110. @TIm Love Tim, who knows? Trump avoided military service so perhaps he thinks those tired refugee mothers and children are a danger to a trained, armed soldier? Too funny.

  111. @Rod, it is irresponsible to ignore the costs of admitting low-skilled, uneducated single parents with their children. Not everyone is a terrorist but there are costs and we can't afford to take in everyone who arrives at the gate.

  112. @Margo No one is suggesting that the US allow everyone to enter. The big problem seems to be that you can't process them rapidly enough, so perhaps rather than a wall that will do nothing. perhaps comprehensive immigration reform is required? That's what's required, well thought out solutions that work, not knee jerk reactions that don't solve anything. If you're worried about people working illegally in the USA, and you should, then perhaps a universal identification card should be required for all people working in the USA. I have a work visa for the USA, I have to carry it, and my passport as I'm a foreigner, if you implemented an electronic database for all people allowed to work in the USA, there would be no incentive to try to get into the country illegally.

  113. Oh, the circular reasoning of building a wall to protect the troops sent to reinforce the barriers! I remember when conference committees were a normal part of Congressional business. Now a NYT article has to tell us what one is, because there are young adults who may not have heard the term in their lifetimes. Disgusting, discouraging.

  114. Democrats are now demanding a return to stop-and-release? They clearly cannot reach a compromise without serious consequences from their leftwing fringe, so they are introducing proposals that have zero likelihood of being accepted.

  115. Funny, was nobody listening to Madam Speaker when she said there will be no money from Congress for his wall? I think it’s time Republicans and Trump start listening. The dictatorship has ended and we are beginning to reemerging as a democracy again, finally!

  116. @Shenoa:Don't start blaming the Democrats. Trump still owns all this, on account of his " big, beautiful wall, spreading from sea to shining sea." The whiny, spoiled man-child got smacked down by "Nancy" once, already.

  117. If a person was inspired to punish our elected officials for turning off the government, I'd hit the air traffic controllers. I'm imagining they're frustrated. Presenting them en masse with other employment opportunities (say, employment in a more stable democracy with moving expenses covered) might just capture the public's attention and arouse the bipartisan fury this issue deserves. Whether Jane or John Q. Public is living in a 150 square foot economy apartment in NYC, or an off-grid cabin in West Virginia (i.e., doesn't travel more than 50 miles from home), enough members of the Public family might see say, a national park shutdown as a big, "meh". However, interrupting the flow of widgets from Amazon due to restricted flights will capture the attention of all but the most die hard Luddite. Alternatively, we could just fire all representatives and the president and hold fresh elections. According to the wisdom of the Facebook meme, the Australians did this in '75. The government of Australia has not shut down since. I haven't fact checked this, by the way, but it seems plausible so I'm rolling with it.

  118. Told ya' so....Republicans can NOT give up their best wedge issue that they use to foment fear, resentment, hatred...all those emotions that their voters live for.

  119. Of course the talks stalled. Mick Mulvaney announced that the President was going to declare an "emergency" even if Congress came up with a negotiated solution. With this threat, why on earth would Democrats make concessions? From their perspective, better to stick with their principles (and their base) and watch Trump make a fool of himself with another shut-down. If they make concessions AND Trump declares an emergency, then what was the point of making the concessions? It doesn't look like Trump has much experience negotiating.

  120. I hope they do break down. Not because I want to see any more suffering from Federal employees and contractors. But solely because giving Trump ANYTHING toward his so called wall - 6 cents would be too much - would get him onto a rant and a tweetstorm proclaiming his victory. The less noise that spews forth from his stupid, snarling mouth, the better off everyone is.

  121. The push for a border wall late last year was a carefully orchestrated plan to undermine the new House leadership. (I know, I know, it’s difficult to believe the current executive branch plans anything; much less does it carefully.) When that backfired in spectacular fashion, the SOTU address/campaign speech became imperative. The new plan, shored up by the administration’s Senate sycophants, Miller, Coulter, Limbaugh and FOX News, is to play the “those horrible Democrats card.” After a bipartisan meeting Lindsey Graham and his buddies can walk away from the table with hands in the air, saying, “We tried, but they’re unreasonable. We even lowered the price of the wall.” Those voters who succumb to fear mongering, alternative facts and Tweetgurgitation will never be swayed. For those who think differently, let’s hope the legislative branch prevails, once again (backed by the judicial branch, if necessary).

  122. Gosh...really...surely a deal can be struck.

  123. @Liz McDougall The democrats don't have the votes for a compromise. They are the real reason no compromise can be reached. All the rest is just noise.

  124. @AACNY, it takes 2 to compromise. Blaming only the Democrats is illogical. Also the Republicans are lying: claiming the Democrats are opposing detention for violent offenders, when they clearly are not.

  125. For starters who's going to trust Richard C. Shelby of Alabama?

  126. Another shutdown won’t work. And a “national emergency” declaration will be hung up in court. Trump to his base: See, I tried. But you said you were a master dealmaker, and you got nothing.

  127. What dangers are we securing the border from? Did they just spring up out of nowhere this year? Or have we been suffering from them terribly for many years without even knowing it?

  128. Trump treated federal workers who suffered without pay like pawns. If he shuts down the government again, they should boycott by not reporting to work. With air traffic halted we'll see how long Trump bows down to Coulter and Limbaugh and keeps the government shut down.

  129. Mexico was supposed to pay for this dumb idea. Do not make me pay for it. My mother in law is spending $9,020 per month in assisted living. Since her mind and her legs went, she is in the upper register of costs. When we run out of money, what will we do? Make her a ward of the state? Or is that socialism. You screwballs are not going to spend money on this president's stupid pledge. First and foremost, get the kids back with their parents!

  130. Trump has his orders from his boss in the Kremlin: recreate the havoc of the last shutdown and impose as much stress as possible on the people and on the system of government. “Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” - Steve Bannon, as quoted by Prof. Ronald Radosh, member of the Hudson Institute with a focus on Soviet politics "What you need to understand about the Russians is there is no ideology at all. Vladimir Putin is in the business of trying to create chaos everywhere." - Bill Browder in testimony to the US Senate Like all the other instances of Trump promoting the goals of the Kremlin, e.g., undermining NATO, these shutdowns serve Putin's agenda. We have a Russian puppet in the White House.

  131. Speaking of national security, what about climate change, gun violence, the opioid epidemic, unsecured voting systems, Russian election meddling, and millions of uninsured Americans? Our fake president has no idea what he’s doing on security until he gets briefed by Putin or Stephen Miller, and then it’s almost always the opposite of rational policy. The electorate spoke loudly in 2018. There is NO crisis at the southern border beyond family separations and the illegal processing of asylum seekers. The only money for barriers should be those necessary for its smooth operation, the free flow of legal trade goods and visitors, and the interdiction of drugs, guns, and other contraband. Trump’s wall is a vanity project with no basis in reality. Any funding for his idea of a wall should come from Mexico or Trump’s own fortune.

  132. @Michael Tyndall In probably only 20 years, the Trump brand will be so vile as all the issues he failed to address come into fruition, Climate change will make the border wall question a small blip on our screen,

  133. @Michael Tyndall If he actually has a fortune, which I doubt. That's why he won't release his tax returns. He would be embarrassed if the public found out he isn't the billionaire he claims to be. His many bankruptcies, stiffing of contractors, propensity for hiring undocumented immigrants, and his weakness as a deal maker have been obvious for years. He used to make money by selling rights to use his name, but that market has disappeared.

  134. @Michael Tyndall Things have changed since 2016. The Chinese have already paid for the wall, in reduced trade, and around 5.7 billion in tariffs are being collected. Now let's appropriate those funds and BUILD THAT WALL!

  135. This wall business means nothing to me compared to the environmental degradation these GOP bandits have been espousing. "This land is our land"... Sure it is. By Jose A. Del Real Feb. 9, 2019 CALEXICO, Calif

  136. Once again this will not end well for Trump. Last time Pelosi grabbed him by the scruff of the neck andshook Trump so hard the rubles fell out of his pocket. I doubt Pelosi will be that gentle this time.

  137. I think it is a mistake to reward bad faith bargaining for either political party and coming up with a deal after playing brinksmanship is a bit disgusting. Let the President deal with his wall - he has said he can and will do that. Let the Congress pass the legislation to keep all the government functioning and dare the President to veto it. And stop this pointless negotiating charade where the requirements keep moving and let the voters decide who is being responsible and who is not.

  138. @Doug Karo agree with Congress passing the bill. The problem is McConnell won't let the bill onto the Senate floor. He is a flunky rather than upholding the role of the legislative branch of government.

  139. Yes, but pass it with 2/3 majorities to make Trump’s signature irrelevant.

  140. @Doug Karo Don't go thinking it's a pointless negotiating charade yet. Trump has kept bellowing about how he'll get his wall one way or the other. The Dems (and most of the country) don't want the wall, so they have thrown in their best bargaining chip. This is their response to his continuing wall threat, in hopes of getting him to drop it in exchange for them dropping the number of beds idea. On the other hand, limiting the number of beds and forcing border security to concentrate on detaining those with criminal records rather than just as many anybodies as they want sounds like a good idea to me. Much better idea than a wall.

  141. You need to put New Mexico Governor Grisham's pullout of National Guard from her border with Mexico, and her correctly naming this unfortunate symbol of shortsighted intolerance for the wasteful and expensive "charade" it is. Please give Grisham's decision coverage. I wish all media would emphasize the unnecessary expense, the barriers already in place, the eminent domain lawsuits, the ecological destruction, the loss of protected habitat for endangered species—why do we hear little about such facts and realities? Give people the details, the deets. That's where the devil is. Points needing repeated reiterating: We already have a wall. Most illegals enter through airports, illegally overstaying visas. Most of the remaining border is privately-owned, and will be tied up in eminent domain lawsuits which will go on indefinitely, and ultimately be dropped. Native American lands can’t be seized—more lawsuits. Ecological areas will be damaged, species will die—monarch butterfly. Drones are more economical and efficient. Border towns are not interested in any more barriers. Money allocated to date for this Maginot Line has not been spent. Cost to date to reunite separated families totals close to a billion —according to Newsweek, thrity grand per separated child. Houston Chronicle reports companies are making billions for sheltering immigrant children. Creates poor realtions with neighbor. Actual crossings are at an all-time low.

  142. In reply to Naples Avalon CA Your last sentence shows that our President is keeping his promises and makes all your previous sentences irrelevant.

  143. How can the NYT expect me to comment truthfully on the silliness and nonsense of a second possible Trump shutdown and remain civil at the same time?

  144. The ending of this article. I mean really. This is too funny and even more pathetic. But it does point to Trumps never ending ability to create a crisis that didn't exist and his aides to come up with a solution that makes matters worse. "To stave off a court challenge, one proposal circulating among some White House officials, including those close to Stephen Miller, the president’s top domestic policy adviser, is to claim that the wall would be built to protect the more than 5,000 active-duty troops now operating near the southwestern border or deploying there soon."

  145. The Wall was a racist dog whistle mnemonic to fire up hatred of black and brown people at Trump rallies - and it was the ugliest kind of nonsense, because Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any president, Republican or Democratic, before him. There is no project plan, no timeline, no resource allotment, no credibility or feasibility study associated with Trump's demand - only a press conference from one of the safest cities in America about the dangers of illegal immigration. Demand accountability from the 6-time bankruptee, and when we don't get it - let's synchronize our clocks for a thunderous, country-wide Pelosi hand clap on Friday.

  146. Does this come as a surprise??? Republicans set an unreasonable bar based solely on a pseudo-crisis conjured up in the cauldron of Fox News (and their ilk) from which 2 plus 2 never equals 4. GO DEMOCRATS!!!

  147. Trump, like his supporters, does not realize that it is the beginning of the end when a country permanently militarizes its borders. We need to impeach trump.

  148. Mainstream Media! If there is another shutdown, focus on the impact of the federal work not being done. Sob stories about unpaid feds will cheer, not distress, Trump's backers. Including the Freedom Caucus and other ideologically captive Republicans as well as Libertarians who want a smaller gubmint anyway. Notice how the last shutdown ended abruptly when it became evident some key services were being damaged, like food inspections. And the final triggers were ... lengthening airport security lines and looming flight delays and cancellations. Bingo! Shutdown ended.

  149. This is all in " Nancy's " masterful hands. She's GOT this.

  150. Lots of reasonable deals could be made to reform and improve the US immigration system, but it will require a general acceptance of the fact that substantial portions of the citizenry think and feel very differently about immigration. Trying to cram by force a policy that most voters object to down their throats is not going to work. Shutting the government or abusing the Constitution with an emergency order over a non-emergency will only make matters worse. I know that some dislike immigration and want to curtail it, and that some are unsympathetic to undocumented people, and that some think immigrants are dangerous and unhelpful, but -- right or wrong -- I disagree with them on these points. I always will. No amount of "dealmaking" will alter this. Fox News may disparage my sentiments 24 hours a day, and yet I will continue to disagree on these points. No deal is going to work if the "solution" is to literally wall us off from our neighbors. Sorry, but I have lots of friends from south of the border, and if one supposes that threatening those relationships and people I care about is somehow the way forward, then proposed policies based on that supposition will fail. Many reasonable compromises might be forged nonetheless. But however much one may want the wall, this is not a dictatorship.

  151. In reply to Joe California How do you feel about legal immigration? You know, when an immigrant enters the country after following all federal immigration laws and then begins to work.

  152. The is no reason why anyone should be against requiring visitors to use official, established border points.

  153. Carnage! Mayhem! Troops defenceless! Drugs drugs drugs! ...No, not talking about the scores of lower than minimum wage Trump golf course employees, "illegals" recruited for the jobs, Republicans are talking about asylum seeking families seeking a new life.

  154. Smoke and mirrors from both sides. There are no winners here, only losers.

  155. trump and his supporters are not being reminded often enough that there does not need to be a shutdown because Mexico is paying for trump's ego-monument.

  156. So the impasse is over the "focus" on the number of detainees with criminal records versus those who have overstayed their visas? For the love of Mike, can't we address both. I am not sure what the conference means by "focus" but I am fed up with their posturing. We need to detain all illegal immigrants with criminal records and we need to go after everyone who has over stayed their visa. I am not sitting in the conference, but it sounds like partisanship on both sides is preventing a solution. I am not a wall advocate, but we do need to impose adequate border control as almost all other most countries do. I have been travelling the world almost since the day I was born. During my 63 years I have been issued 9 US passports. The multiple stamps in those once green, now blue documents graphically depict is how important border security is to the rest of the world. It is not xenophobic, racist, inhumane or selfish to expect immigrants to observe our laws on legal entry. I realize that some have used this issue to sway political opinion based on xenophobia, racism, callous disregard for human suffering and self-interest, but that does not negate the necessity of monitoring immigration, which infers that the government should control it. At the moment the US government is not in full control of immigration to this country.

  157. @gpickard It’s rich that Trump is so vehemently against illegal immigration since his company has employed so many illegals over the years, and it apparently continues to do so. As you know, there are a number of variables that makes our immigration situation much different from that of all European countries. I encourage you to think about this. I also ask you to ask yourself why this particular issue bothers you so much. If you are being honest with yourself, this “issue” doesn’t even make the top ten biggest problems facing this country.

  158. @gpickard Dear Dana Osgood, Immigration is not in fact the most important issue in my small world. Withdrawing from our Middle East entanglements, healthcare for US citizens, affordable university education, fair and equitable taxation, bridging the racial divides in our country, addressing the inequality of opportunity due to race, gender or religion, all these are just as important as immigration control. Nevertheless, many of the issues we face as Americans are exacerbated by the failure of our immigration system.

  159. How is the border wall debate a “thing “ ? It’s a non issue. How can we stop this megalomaniac from setting the agenda? Climate change is the number one issue for the world. Yes I said world. That is the blue globe seen from space that is proven to be quite rare. It’s a bipartisan, non denominational , non national issue. It’s the survival of our species. But hey what’s going on in Hollywood?

  160. Mexico is going to pay for the wall, right? So Senor Trump just needs to pick up the phone, call Mexico, and demand, "Send me a check, pronto!"

  161. When will Congress grow a spine and oppose Trump's racism? Just let him try using emergency powers. He can run but he can't hide.

  162. Dems better figure this one out. If their left wing is holding up a compromise, they’ll own the next shut down as much as Trump. As a life long dem, I’m watching carefully to see if they can govern judiciously, not just with catchy memes and sound bites a la AOC.

  163. @Andrew The Democrats have been against all this wall nonsense since the beginning. Any shutdown will be fully owned by Trump just as it was the first time. The fact that we have to “negotiate” about an idiotic wall with a child-president is the most pathetic thing I have seen in years. The executive branch and much of congress is being ruled, sadly, by the Mountain Dew-mouth segment of the voting public.

  164. @Dana - to clarify - against the wall since Trump became an advocate. Not since "the beginning".

  165. @Dana Osgood. Obama has built more wall than Trump has, at this point. I think you need to review your facts, and your timeline of opposition.

  166. The threat of another government shutdown has nothing to do with border security, except that is the demand President Trump has made. The President failed to get his wall through legislation (even with his party in power for the last two years) and so turned to extortion to get what he wants. Holding 800,000 government employees hostage is no way for a president to achieve his goals, and I hope Congress will remind Mr. Trump that is not how democracy works.

  167. Hmm, unfit for office. We have the 25th Amendment. Time to use it.

  168. @Brian Steblen, so why not just give him the funding and lets move on?

  169. @Brian Steblen Completely agreed. But the GOP has abdicated from its constitutional duties. They won't tell Mr. Trump how democracy works because they are against democracy, and in particular the constitutional division of powers.

  170. Perhaps we could just take all the bronze statues of confederate generals currently standing south of the Mason-Dixon Line, and re-deploy them along our 2000 miles of Mexican border, with their arms linked... Only question – what to do with the other half of them...

  171. "The specter of another shutdown is always out there," says Senator Shelby. Our current president and the Republicans in the senate got burned by the first shutdown, and now they are threatening to do it again. Obviously they do not care whom it hurts or how much it costs. Anything to please their shrinking base of voters.

  172. Democrats seizing defeat from the jaws of victory. What an absurd demand, fewer detentions! Even I don't support it!

  173. Limiting the number of ICE beds is a peanuts concession for agreeing to fund Trump's so-called "wall," thus condoning the wreckage of his shameful and stupid shutdown. Congressional Democrats should instead agree to fund something closer to the full $5bil. wanted by Trump (still not really enough to do much), but insist on a more tangible quid pro quo, like mandating e-verify. And then finally get going full speed on what should be their urgent top priority: Starting full impeachment hearings and bargaining with Congressional Republicans on the terms of Trump's resignation.

  174. Democrats must not surrender to the revolting, unAmerican xenophobia of Trump, Neilson, Miller, et al, of this hateful Administration. It must be strongly, unequivocally deterred from ever attempting to go down this hostage-taking road again. If the Fake President can claim a "victory ", he shall return to this totally unacceptable tactic in the future. Dig in, again, Dems!

  175. The entire political infrastructure is guilty of the same ridiculous posture: do not compromise. Decision by committee is notoriously inane, but still no where near where we have ended up: no decision on critical issues that affect us all. Trump promised a wall that Mexico pays for...let no one be confused, it's 100% his failure to deliver that (because it's idiotic...think what you will about him). But we, as a people cannot vote and steer the political system when alternate realities abound. It's the criminal system that should handle one has ever doubted their capability to include deportation of an illegal entrant in the execution of a sentence for a legally established crime. But the facts on immigration are not invisible to anyone who looks around: foreign workers contribute significantly to our economy and every state that has imposed draconian punishments for being 'undocumented' paid heavily in lost production. The issue among the citizens who vote isn't politicians, but rather the fact the the dialog is based on innuendoes, talking points, and fear...not reality.

  176. 5.7 Billion dollars was projected to build 250 miles of Border wall. That will leave more than 1,000 miles still unprotected on the U.S. southern border. People will continue to get through. The problem is that employers hire undocumented workers knowing they are breaking the law. Profit is more important to these employers than obeying the law. A family that hires an undocumented housekeeper, gardner or nanny is equally responsible for the illegal immigration problem. Fine employers $10,000 per undocumented worker and give a $1,000 reward for reporting law breaking employers. Take away the financial benefit of undocumented workers and the border problem will be reduced to asylum seekers and small time drug dealers. Terrorists typically arrive through airports and let’s not forget the U.S. northern border is wide open as compared to the southern border. If people could get paid for reporting undocumented employees and unethical employers change would happen quickly. Border technology must be improved to scan more incoming vehicles if you want to slow the flow of drugs.

  177. @Al Trump proposes to add 200 miles of new fencing to the 700 miles of existing fence where the Border Patrol says it is needed—mostly in the Rio Grande Valley. The completed 900-mile fence will bear little resemblance to the grandiose border wall Trump envisioned in his campaign speeches. It will cover less than 50 percent of the 1,954 mile-long U.S.-Mexico border. The requested $5.7 billion would also pay for strengthening the existing fence, poet of entry enhancements and high-tech sensors to surveil the 1,000 miles of unprotected border.

  178. @William Case The Wall will not solve the problem. Prosecute employers of undocumented workers. Increase the percentage of scanned vehicles. Add personnel for border security.

  179. "While Democrats refused to entertain the prospect of fulfilling Mr. Trump’s $5.7 billion demand for a border wall, lawmakers had grown closer to accepting a number between $1.3 billion and $2 billion for physical barriers. But they also demanded the limit on ICE beds, as a way to force the agency to focus on detaining migrants with criminal records instead of people who have overstayed their visas.” The Democrats on this panel appear to not want ICE to try to deport any aliens unless they have criminal records. This is tantamount to saying they want “open borders”.

  180. It's common knowledge that Trump's main motivation to build the wall is to satisfy his base. He has also said he REALLY wants to have his name on the Trump Wall or The Great Wall of Trump. During a campaign campaign speech in August, 2015, he was quoted as saying, "Well, 3,000 years ago -- right? The Great Wall of China was built...We would like to have that wall..I want it to be so beautiful because someday they'll call it The Trump has to be beautiful." How can anyone take this man seriously? A gem was found of a 1950 TV episode featuring a con man named "Trump" who wanted to build a wall. I've cried over many of the things this president has done to erode our democracy. Maybe it is time for a little levity. We all need a good laugh about now.

  181. @bea durand Trump long ago gave up on his plan to build a mammoth wall from San Diego to Brownsville. He no longer plans to build a wall across the Texas despoblado. According to plans announced months ago, Trump proposes to add 200 miles of new fencing to the 700 miles of existing fence where the Border Patrol says it is needed—mostly in the Rio Grande Valley. The completed 900-mile fence will bear little resemblance to the grandiose border wall Trump envisioned in his campaign speeches. It will cover less than 50 percent of the 1,954 mile-long U.S.-Mexico border. The requested $5.7 billion would also pay for strengthening the existing fence, poet of entry enhancements and high-tech sensors to surveil the 1,000 miles of unprotected border.

  182. The Constitution’s “Take Care Clause” task presidents to “take care that the laws be faithfully executed.” The Immigration and Nationality Act and the Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act tasks the president to arrest, prosecute and remove or deport illegal border crossers and illegal aliens residing without authorization in the United States. The immigration laws do not say illegal border crossers and visa overstayers should be allowed to stay if they commit no other crime except immigration law violations.If Democrats thinks illegal immigrants who elude the Border Patrol and visa overstayers should be granted citizenship, legal resident status or immunity to deportation, they should draft bill and put it to a vote.

  183. @William Case if they had citizenship, they would be paying taxes . That would be a good thing.

  184. @MEH About 77 million foreigners enter the United States each year. Do you think we should grant them all citizenship, or just those who enter illegally?

  185. The movie of the border negotiations is called “The Unbending Intransigents”. Where is the lack of bi-partisanship coming from? Party leadership on both sides. Why do we need (17) people working this out? They just clog the negotiations. A couple of people from each party with decision making status is all that is required. The President should be made to accept their agreement as well as both chambers.

  186. You can say it's about border security, as the Times does. Or immigration enforcement, as WaPo's headline does. You can say it's about national security, public safety, and human rights, as the Southwestern Border Sheriff's Association does. What I know is it looks like our government may close down again over quibbling about some number between $1.3 and $2 billion, and a cap on the number of detention beds. That's about power. And I'm sick of it.

  187. Shutdown is a distraction because you-know-who is hiding something. Bigly.

  188. Fewer illegals will have to be detained (what Democrats want) if we build the wall and block them from entering illegally (what Republicans want.) A win-win scenarios. No?

  189. This just in: people have a right to ask for refugee status under out laws and treaties. You’ve heard of those law thingies, right?

  190. Right Robert but we can keep them in custody until their status is clarified. Rules and laws and things

  191. @Robert Every single illegal alien has learned to say the magic word “asylum,” when caught. They know how to game our stupid laws.

  192. We will see no compromise because The Gutter Has Come To Power in the guise of Donald Trump, who is President of The United States, his evil Republican enablers, and a Democratic Party that has no problem with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, as its' face!

  193. How about we just impeach the imposter and end this charade?

  194. I hope no one is forgetting Trump's "promise" was a wall paid for by Mexico. Why is he asking for any money at all if Mexico is going to pay for it?

  195. Great news! Go for it Trump! Go for it Republicans! Extortion has been your forte for decades! You invented the shutdown. Shut it down! Make so many new friends and voters, especially among the rubes and yahoos and other suckers who you conned into voting for people who basically despise them. Shut it down! And keep it shutdown. You do hate government don't you. And put Cruz in charge! He can give us another rendition of Green Eggs and Ham. Or Horton Hears a Who!

  196. In the spirit of giving them some more rope, I agree!

  197. Here's an idea for the wall. Trump supporters should go to the border and guard it. Because talking to them about this subject, and any other subject for that matter, is like talking to a wall.

  198. Agree. If they feel so strong about it, then they should get some skin in the game. Take turns watching the Caravan attach.

  199. Good idea. Even better, they could all lie down and do ten tiers of human centipede.

  200. AJ. Here’s another option. Folks that support open borders can house and feed those who enter the country illegally so they are not a fiscal Burden on those of us who support border security

  201. The media needs to be clear here, rather than falling into the false equivalency mode. Trump shut the government down for no reason. No rational person believes the wall to be anything other than a vanity project: it has zero to do with security. Framing this as a failure to negotiate or compromise is playing to Trump's base. Any money dedicated to the wall will no doubt be funneled to some crony. The Democrats need to hold firm, and the media needs to present a balanced view.

  202. @James doohan Trump did not shut down government. The revenue bill never reached his desk. It never got through the Senate. The House shut down government by crafting a bill it knew the Senate would reject.

  203. So was trump lying when he said the shutdown was his fault? Because you and he seem to be at odds over whose fault this is. He had taken (probably the only time in his life) actual responsibility for it. Did you miss that? It’s below for you.

  204. @Sonu Trump said he would own the shutdown, but the bill never reached his desk. He never got a chance to veto it. The Senate want to fund the border fence.

  205. Presidential vetoes or the threat of vetoes are part of the constitutional system of checks and balances. Since revenue bills can only originate in the House of Representatives, it is the House’s responsibility to craft a revenue bill with which the Senate will concur and the president will sign. Unless Congress can override the president’s veto, the House has to keep making revisions to the revenue bill until the Senate concurs and the president signs. If the House refuses, it become responsible for shutting down government.

  206. Trump didn’t mention vetoing at all. Nor did he offer a compromise. He simply said he won’t sign unless gimme, and then began to bluster. Loudly, not that that’s something new.

  207. @Robert President can only kill bills by vetoing them. Trump never vetoed the bill; it never reached his desk. The president offered a compromise. He has agreed to build a border barrier built to Border Patrol specifications rather than the grandiose wall envisioned in his campaign speeches. The proposal is to strengthened the existing 700 miles of existing fence and build 200 miles of new metal fencing, primarily in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas, which has become the epicenter of illegal immigration.The completed 900-miles of fence would cover less than 50 percent of the 1,954-mile-long U.S.-Mexico border.

  208. @Marcus Aurelius No. Presidents cannot veto a bill until it reaches his desk. The Constitution states:" Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States: If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law." The revenue bill never reach Trump's desk. He did not receive it and did not return it to the House with his objections. Get it?

  209. Is it not now obvious— That any meaningful comprehensive addressing of our southern border— Will have to wait till Trump is out of office.

  210. The air traffic controllers need to put their foot down: The moment that the shutdown starts all takeoffs are denied. When the planes that are in the air have landed safely, all air travel comes to a grinding halt.

  211. Thomas. Easy to tell others to put their foot down. How about a general strike so we all Have skin in the game

  212. The citizens with the most power to immediately end another shutdown are the fine people whose safety many of us have entrusted our lives to at least once. Those people are Air Traffic Controllers and TSA officers. If ATC & TSA employees did not report to work for the first shift after a shutdown that would send a message that literally would shock the whole world. Nobody flies within the US, and the most critical global routes, especially for business, are shut down. Once all inbound flights have safely landed, they are stuck. Private jets? Forget about it, they depend on ATC just like commercial carriers. Yes, this would be would radical, but in my opinion, it is high time for radical action from rational people who are being used as pawns by our government. And not just Trump. Congress is just as guilty. Democrats and Republicans. Government shutdowns, real or bluffed, should never have become a legislative poker chip in the first place, and we need to enact a law that eliminates this cancer. Like cancer government shutdowns cause harm to the very organism that it requires to survive - The People. Shutdowns also share characteristics with terrorism - just the threat can do more harm emotionally and psychologically to those directly affected, especially once they have already been ‘attacked’’. Shutdown threats are also similar to using human shields to deter military attack. Collateral damage is assumed to high - until it is not. If it takes just one more to end all - fine.

  213. So trump thinks the Democrats are following their leadership. Does he know that you can't direct Democrats what to do? The Republicans unite for power. The left, can't even agree on what to order for lunch. Clearly, Trump doesn't know anyone on the left.

  214. Trump wants to pay off campaign donors with the big contracts for cages! Our money would be better spent fixing the radar on the destroyers in the South Pacific. Replacing windows 2000. Updating the Email on the ships. It is absurd that the ships are suppose to communicate using Gmail. They only have one kid who is proficient in Japanese, because his mother is Japanese. Opps he was one of the enlisted who died. We are sailing major ships with a bunch of 24 year olds on 20 hrs without sleep. No one is going to stay in past one tour.

  215. it's amazing. When will Americans realise that this is not normal and react in a sane way.

  216. The man is unfit to hold Office. Trying to work with him is like herding cats. Time to use the 25th Amendment.

  217. The Democrats make no sense to want to cap the beds of convicted felons. They seemed to have stopped representing Americans or anyone who respects the rule of law.

  218. it doesn't make sense because its not true. The Democrats want ICE to focus on detaining those with a criminal history and stop using beds for those who overstayed their visas, which is a CIVIL offense. Prioritization is more cost effective, also.

  219. @Alexgri Wait! Why are American taxpayers being asked to give nice beds to people who have entered the US illegally and who have a criminal record? These people should be deported, not housed and fed. What am I missing? Why would anyone want more beds for these people?

  220. I'm sorry, I thought you were speaking of the President and a passle of his top appointees from his election campaign to the White House.

  221. Before America thinks about getting rid of Maduro in Venezuela, what about a clean up in the Trump House of Horrors! Get rid of the Liar.

  222. Trump is trying to create a problem to get attention away from his past taxes and his ties to Putin. There are so many immigrants that are currently working in the US which is helping the US economy strengthen. Walk through NYC and there are thousands of immigrants working in construction, hotels, restaurants, all to the benefit of us all. Republicans who are anti union are paying immigrant construction workers less then union wages. Then after profiting they turn on these immigrants. Hypocrisy at its worse. Trump hired Polish immigrants in construction years ago and then did not pay them many years ago. Hypocrisy!

  223. This needs to be taken one step at a time to place the responsibility where it lies. At this point the bipartisan commitee on border security should focus on border security and nothing else. Detention beds for illegal immigrants already in the US should probably be a separate bill, or the commitee should meet in the middle or flip a coin. In any case, the commitee needs to pass something. Once the Commitee passes something the obligation is for the the House and Senate leadership to hold votes on it, no matter what's in it. If they obstruct it as McConnell is almost sure to do, that's their fault and they own any shutdown that results. If a vote is held and doesn't pass the full Senate or House, everyone who votes against it owns the shutdown. Once passed, if the President refuses to sign it and shuts down the government, the President owns the shutdown. If an agreement on border security isn't reached, the Senate needs to pass an indefinite continuing resolution or the funding bills already passed by the House weeks ago. To try to guess what the President will sign is wrong. Everyone just needs to do their jobs, step by step, and the blame for a shutdown lies with whomever obstructs the process when it's their turn to act.

  224. Trump is going to announce his police action and ride down there on a white horse, white gold cart I mean. He is incapable of negotiating in good faith. These three weeks are just for show. Have we not been paying attention?

  225. Democrats object to the number of detention beds because they think illegal borders crossers should not be arrested, detained or inconvenienced.

  226. Not at all, it is because of what we have witnessed in the last year, forcible separation of parents seeking asylum from minor children, failing to obey court orders to return children, and most importantly, losing the children they took.

  227. Can you cite any source(s) to verify such an assertion?

  228. There it is, right there in the NYT, right in front of everybody: "The hang-up was not primarily the amount of funding for a border barrier, but a Democratic effort to force Immigration and Customs Enforcement to focus on detaining migrants with criminal records instead of people who have overstayed their visas by limiting the number of beds it has in detention centers.... "[Dems] they also demanded the number of beds for ICE, which detains immigrants who are already in the country, be limited to 16,500." So, even when the Wall is not the primary issue, Dems just cannot bring themselves to seriously support any strong immigration control measures. In recent months, the Dems and others who claim that there is no serious problem on the Southern Border have ballyhooed recent reports that, supposedly, visa overstays have in the past year or two outnumbered illegal border crossers. Now, they are strangling funding for detention centers. How else do they propose dealing with the supposed visa overstay problem? Dems disingenuously claim they are not pro-open-borders. They may not say they are pro-open-borders. But at every opportunity, they resist tooth and nail nearly every effort to seriously control immigration. That makes them de facto pro-open-borders. btw. You also will not find Dems supporting the most effective measure to go after employers who hire illegal aliens -- namely, mandatory e-Verify.

  229. Well we know Trump won't since he's one of the biggest offenders of hiring illegal immigrants. What a hypocrite.

  230. Democrats have been pushing for e-verify and prosecuting employers for decades.

  231. Republicans are the deciders. Democrats do not believe that Trump’s Wall is worth building. They will accept some barriers that are reasonable. Why? Because Trump’s Wall is a symbol that immigrants from Latin America are unwelcome and it’s forbidding appearance projects that message. That’s what Trump’s base wants. That’s why Democrats call it to be a proposal based upon racism. Democrats are supportive of good borders security and of changing immigration policies to control immigration but also to assure that it’s fair to everyone. Trump has nothing but contempt for anyone who relies upon law and fair institutions to live good lives. For him the only basis of a good life is plenty of money. With great amounts of money he has acted however he feels and has never been held responsible. Being President is an amusing experience for him and playing on the fears and bigotries of a significant proportion of the electorate allows him to continue amusing himself.