Why wouldn't Mr. Jones embrace the opportunity, in court, to provide conclusive proof that his assertions about Sandy Hook are true and accurate? Surely then the audience for his online supplements would be assured that his internet advertising is just as truthful and responsible as his "reporting" on the tragedy.
19
The photo certainly seems what it would look like if a frog (in a blazer), happy in its pot of water, suddenly started realizing it was getting hot.
17
I hope this is just the beginning.
Jones, Halbig, and their audience if misfits, losers and mentally unbalanced fringe lunatics exposed from the top down.
The fact that Donald Trump admires Jones and appeared on his show makes perfect sense.
Jones, who harasses the parents of children murdered by assault weapon.
Would the republicans still have clapped and hooted if Trump invited Jones to the State of the Union?
Probably. When you support Trump, you support Jones too. They are cut from the same cloth. They are joined at the hip.
Watch Trump and Jones here;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LeChPL0sLE
Revolting.
I believe that the republicans would have run Alex Jones for president if they thought it would advance their agenda.
President Alex Jones.
16
Think about these pathetic conspiracy theorists -- all with useless empty miserable lives - every day wasting irretrievable moments of their shallow existences while they use they direct their hate so intensely at total strangers --
And why do they do that -- ?
Because if they didn't - they'd all have to come to grips with the realities of their own empty loveless lives - with nothing else to do but sit in front of their computers posting on internet chat rooms - while breathlessly sharing the latest "fact" and "discovery" about the "truth" and "what really happened" --
There are many thousands of people who desperately need to avoid the realities of their own lives -- and they use a number of different methods to achieve that result --
Lots of them drink - or do drugs in excess - or both --
Some become compulsive gamblers - or sex addicts - or pedophiles --
Others use food - too much or too little - as a means to control their unbearable fears regarding the truth about their lives --
Some people become workaholics - or "cleaners"- or hoarders --
And then --
There are those who must spend every waking moment focusing their attention on the lives of complete strangers - people whom they believe they know - but in fact, only have fantasy relationships with inside their head --
There are still people who spend their days posting in the "Area 51" and "Grassy Knoll" chat rooms --
And now - we have the Sandy Hook group - sad people with no real lives of their own...
15
It takes a special kind of monster to spew these horrors about people who have gone through what can only be described as a nightmare. He and his ilk and followers need to be put away for good.
15
On top of everything else, he hawks diet supplements. What a low life. What a criminal.
10
I pry for Sandy Hook kids every day and want this Alex Jones to pay all his earnings from past and future, donated to gun violence prevention.
He needs to be ordered to hang a signboard around his neck for life- saying that Guns kill people.
4
Hang on a minute...
Am I to understand that Alex Jones is down on his luck?
Tell you what, I say we start a new website that burnishes the theory that he is an incurable pedophile who, in his mad desire to hide this fact, attacks all these families already stricken by the ultimate tragedy.
But to do this right, we'd have to be performing some useful public service on our website, like, say, selling cigarettes and/or promoting dog fighting.
Ahhh, freedom of speech is such a lovely thing.
8
Absolutely appalling that the president of our country actually said of Mr. Jones, ""Your reputation is amazing. I will not let you down."
The mere uttering of those words has let every citizen of this country who believes in truth down, Mr. Trump. Shame on you.
18
Jones and his friends, like Trump, and his followers, all, should be stopped. Hate speech is against the law.
I think the man is first rank crazy and I cannot imagine what it is like to deal with him and his ilk after having my innocent child shot to death by another mad man. How horrible!
I hope Jones is punished, his money taken away and given to the victims and that he goes to jail. He will only use whatever punishment he gets to be a victim, but it might at least temporarily shut him up.
Could we take all the people who don't believe we went to the moon, that these mass shootings are government plots to take away their guns, that the earth is flat, and all such other nonsense and send them to some isolated place in the upper west where they can all live together in paranoia heaven. Please.
9
The word “provocateur” obfuscates what these people are. I won’t use the word here, but it begins with “a” and ends with “e”.
5
The father of Sandy Hook victim Emilia Parker, said of his six year old daughter- “The world is a better place because she has been in it.”
Not something that will ever be said of Alex Jones when he is no longer with us.
11
I can't forget that Trump appeared on Jones' program, adulating, "your reputation is amazing. "
7
to the Sandy Hook families all I can say is be relentless. the angst and harm Alex Jones put upon you is unforgivable. his day is fast approaching.
6
That the President of the US gave this creep the time of day is pitiful beyond measure. To use Trump's favorite word, a "disgrace".
Trump himself along with Jones should apologize in front of the nation for the harm they have done.
7
This is more positive news in this unbelievable and shameful chapter.
I urge these families on, while at same time, am so so disturbed (mild word) that this additional heavy burden has been placed upon them.
They should have been allowed to mourn and grieve unencumbered by any add'l stresses, much less anything as bizarre and self-serving from someone as baldly evil as Alex Jones.
May he pay mightily, from every angle possible, for all the extra, unconscionable pain he has wrought.
I would humbly also ask the same type of support for the 9/11 families who also continue to operate under tremendous burdens, as they continue to fight, in US courts, against the government of Saudi Arabia. Their simple and straightforward goal: to get full access, disclosure and discovery of all secret documents that the Kingdom continues to hide, withhold and otherwise subvert from families' view and knowledge. Documents that would tell of SA's pre-involvement and financing of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks
Their fight continues, nearly 18 years on. Hold a good thought for these on-going battles as well.
aunt of Andrea, 25
9/11 WTC victim
4
I hope Jones' ex-wife takes him back to court to revisit their child custody agreement. Maybe if the judge denied any visitation with his kids, he'd feel the excruciating pain Sandy Hook's parents feel for not having their children.
4
My fervent prayer is that the anguish of these grieving parents is assuaged, and that the slanderous delusions of the vile huckster who torments them are silenced. Surely it is apparent to American jurisprudence that the families have suffered a grave injustice at the hands of a greedy, repulsive carnival barker.
7
As a parent and grandparent, I cried for the victims and families of the Sandy Hook massacre. Then I cried for the families of the Sandy Hook victims who have endured vile harassment as a result of the lies created and spread by Alex Jones and his accomplices for financial gain I pray that the day will come when I can cry tears of joy as these families receive some compensation for their unconscionable suffering and Alex Jones is ruined financially.
11
Jones has filled a vacuum much larger and more available that that in civilized countries. If we had a quality, nation-wide educational system, such filth as he could find no purchase in which to grow and flourish. To me, one of the greatest tragedies of modern America life is that more and more people have fewer and fewer opportunities to develop their abilities. We are treated as consumers, not citizens who could thrive and contribute if properly nurtured. If we expected more from ourselves and our fellows , there would be many fewer wackos and perhaps more teachers, doctors and other professionals. Jones finds people who think they have nothing and are already very compromised, and gives them something. How sad it is, that what he has to give is all they think they have.
5
Alex Jones is a typical bully, using his show to target and hurt innocent people for his own aggrandizement and publicity ratings. Like many bullies, he is weak and insecure underneath as evidenced by his crying and childish reactions to being brought to justice. How could anyone willingly seek to profit by harassing bereaved parents who lost the most important thing in their lives ... their precious children. His actions compound their grief and sorrow. There must be severe consequences for his actions through the courts to deter others from following in his footsteps.
4
I hope they take him for every last penny.
6
We need to fix our education system. Why do so many fall for these money-grabbing charlatans?
5
"His lawyer, Marc Randazza, acknowledged the series of decisions in favor of the families, but said, “If you’re keeping score here, this is just the coin toss.”
No one is keeping score here, Mr. Randazza, because this is not a game. I'd ask how Jones sleeps at night, knowing his greed is the catalyst in this, but by looking at the photo of him, it appears he isn't.
However, the platforms that allowed him to continue perpetuating these lies should be held to account too. In fact, it does not appear that doing the right thing caused them to remove Jones's content, because they certainly allowed it to continue, but possibly fear of getting caught up in the law suits.
Greed abounds.
5
This really is about good versus evil. For the sake of those sweet innocent victims and their families, I hope they bury Alex Jones.
9
The malevolence of Jones and those like him deserve the full force of the law to shred their fortunes and their personal freedom. Not even freedom of speech is broad enough to permit the obscenities that people of this ilk use.
11
These parents are suing for public defamation by Alex Jones. They are not suing for harm caused by his followers.
These families were not public figures the day after their children were murdered, but victims who were in mourning for their lost babies. They are entitled to protect their good names and character as any law abiding private citizen is.
For the sake of profit from suspect products, Alex Jones has knowingly and horribly defamed these parents during their time of grievous loss. For this, he is culpable for great civil damages.
Jones may not be the only perpetrator of this defamation, but he certainly is the most public. Others so inclined to have followed his lead will undoubtedly have their turn in civil court after Alex Jones goes down in flames.
10
Why do they want a change of venue if the shooting didn’t happen? If 20 children and six adults weren’t murdered, having a trial there shouldn’t be problematic.
15
The first amendment protects the people's right to speak the truth, it should not provide blanket immunity to people seeking to profit off the lies they tell to make money and intentionally inflict pain and suffering on people who have already been victimized
8
Maybe these lawsuits will spur Jones to seek the psychological help he needs.
3
I believe lots of people hide behind the first amendment, including our president, and yes it guarantees them the right to say what they want however it doesn't protect them from the results of what they say.
10
I have a deep love of well crafted euphemisms, so I would have to say that if someone “attacked” Alex Jones physically (with, say, a fastening device used in carpentry), I wouldn’t consider that person a legal menace. I’d consider them more of an “entertainer”.
8
Culpability is being redefined in the internet era.
The young woman who taunted a young man to kill himself (and he did) is now spending the rest of her life in prison without the possibility of parole.
I hope the judges presiding over Alex Jones' trials apply the same logic.
7
“If we’re going to reset the rules about what you’re allowed to say, then let’s reset them for everyone,” Mr. Randazza said. “And I don’t think anybody would be happy with that.”
Reset the rules? Here’s the Golden Rule: treat others as you would wish to be treated. Before you even get to a courtroom, it is just plain wrong to multiply the pain of losing a child by denying that it even happened. I know people write horrible things about each other in various places of the internet, so I can’t stay I’m stunned. Does Mr. Jones have any shame about how his performance has caused serious threats to the safety and well being of people who lost children? I don’t know if he actually believes what he says. I don’t really care. The point is that he’s scaring people into terrorizing each other. What an irresponsible use of media.
None of these rights are limitless absolutes. This person has clearly made choices that have caused additional emotional and psychological harm. Of course there shouldn’t be censorship. People should be responsible with their words and decent to one another by default, by choice. But you also can’t enjoy limitless free speech protection if you are literally endangering the safety and well being of others. Warn of the slippery slope every time our rights are clarified - of course. The rights of other people have to be a consideration in the protection of rights. You don’t have limitless rights at the expense of the rights of others. That’s not a community.
7
@Ryan Swanzey
You are correct. What's more, this is an application of old, black-letter civil libel law. Mr. Jones is screwed. He has dug himself a hole so deep, that he'll start to feel like Fred Goldman is on his case.
At the time, I thought Hillary Clinton was nuts to call people "deplorables." Now, I think she was right on. With Trump, supporters of Jones have declared war on us. Soon they will all feel like General Guderian on the road to Moscow.
4
God has given mankind freedom to choice its own destiny. The Founding Fathers gave Americans rights that the government must legally recognize.
However, God did not give mankind unlimited freedoms, and the Founding Fathers didn't give Americans unlimited rights. Extremist believe that they have unlimited freedoms, unlimited rights and unlimited access to power.
No one is omnipotent. Society doesn't exist in extremes. No one has unlimited rights.
7
Crying fire when there is not one has it's costs. This is not a free speech issue.
7
Alex Jones well deserves to be sued for defamation. So glad it’s still possible in the age of internet unaccountability.
Laws excusing internet platforms from responsibility for what is published on their sites should be repealed. These aren’t tiny fledgling companies anymore. Facebook, Instagram, Google, Snapchat... these are huge publishing companies that should be liable for what’s on their platforms.
2
Mr. Jones is destined to lose this argument, because he and his supporters don't 'get' that in a world where information has been democratized, in authoring and consuming, but it's sourcing obscured (for reasons that can ONLY be the responsibility of the author) there is a corresponding requirement for authors, like Alex Jones, to bear some responsibility for the consequences of that information when it seeks action against individuals or a community on the basis of wholly unsubstantiated allegations. The alternative is simply not in the public interest, or the 'constitutional interest'. As the expression goes, 'the Constitution is not a suicide pact'. There is no public purpose in defining 'free speech' so absolutely that there are no recognizable responsibilities on the author of said speech. It would be an invitation to manipulate any audience by any means, with no legal consequence for what actions that audience might undertake due to that speech.
6
This is not at all a freedom of speech issue. I'm sure Jones and his supporters would l like to deflect the conversation to that.
The issue here is not of being free to say what you want - the real issue is of being responsible for what you do say.
Mr. Jones has spoken and is now being held responsible, as are some of his more fanatical followers.
194
Every right has a corresponding responsibility. The idiot at the head of Infowars wants us to believe that absolutely anything can be said and that verbal acts of calumny and abuse are somehow protected speech under the First Amendment. What this doofus does is yell fire in a crowded theatre day In and day out with intolerant abuse to add insult to injury. Arguing First Amendment rights in this case is a travesty and only exacerbates the tragedy and sorrow experienced by the Sandy Hill families. Mr. Infowars should be civilly stripped bare of every dollar he made through this despicable abuse, then tarred and feathered... literally.
75
Why is Alex Jones being held accountable for how others act? On what basis do the families intend to prove that all of the people who have harassed them and threatened them were due to Alex Jones' statements and not their own independent conclusions?
This lawsuit will eventually get tossed on appeal.
2
@puma. They are not suing for the acts of others. They are suing because Alex Jones defamed them, called them liars, saying their children did not die and they made the whole thing up. That defamation could have led to harassment, of course, but it stands on it's own as illegal.
154
@puma
How can you plausibly say he shouldn't be? There is no public purpose in defining 'free speech' so absolutely that there are no recognizable responsibilities on the author of said speech. It would be an invitation to manipulate any audience by any means, with no legal consequence for what actions that audience might undertake due to that speech.
6
@puma, If you yell "Fire! Run!" in a crowded place, (just for a little fun, you know), and a stampede ensues, which injures or kills the people there... If it then turns out there was no fire, you're likely to be charged for causing the carnage. I think it's the same principle, operating here.
5
I don't usually approve of defamation lawsuits, and they have been abused in the past, but this is a case in which they are necessary. I wish the bereaved plaintiffs success; nothing can bring their children back, but at least their loss can be honored.
245
@Jonathan Katz I don't think Jonathan Katz has the slightest comprehension of what it means to lose a 6 year old child. I'm so glad you approve of this defamation suit.
4
I hope that the judge and jury do NOT find that parents are 'public figures' by virtue of losing their children. If the court so finds, the lawsuit is much harder to win. They would have to prove that Jones knew what he said was false.
But if the court does not find that they are 'public figures' they have a very solid defamation claim. I hope they clean him out and leave him in bankruptcy. Then, I hope another group he has defamed sues within the 7 year period he cannot declare bankruptcy again, and make him pay every cent he has to them for the rest of his life.
That would be slavery, and that would be as close to justice as could be served in this world.
76
Thank you for your courage and your efforts to fight for goodness and right under these horrible circumstances.
53
Sandy Hook families, I’m forever on your side, and I’m certain 99% of America supports you, too. Peace be with you.
153
If a civil case is all they can bring against this man, so be it. I hope he loses every penny he's built in his career of turning other people's heartbreak into entertainment to help him push his pills and other businesses.
67
My level of disgust for Jones is beyond description.
But this is what really gets me:
"Mr. Jones, once an obscure radio personality, gained national visibility in 2015, when Donald J. Trump appeared on his show as a presidential candidate, praising his “amazing” reputation."
The Democrats go to easy on Trump.
At every press opportunity, at every chance, at every microphone, they should all be on the same page.
Reminding and reinforcing that this pariah is on good terms and has glowing comments for a heartless beast like Jones - a man who defiles the memory of slaughtered six year olds.
Reminding that he defrauded thousands by promoting a phony University he named after himself - paying $25 million to settle a class action suit with 6000 people he ripped off.
Reminding that he is a serial wife cheater.
Including on the First Lady just months after their son, Barron, was born.
No mercy for the greatest scoundrel ever to darken out country.
No normal person with a lick of intelligence and hint of a moral fiber would praise Alex Jones.
No mercy.
110
@Paul King the media go easy on Trump, too. They'll spend weeks on Elizabeth Warren and others but normalize Trump.
3
I'm looking forward to seeing this for profit liar and destroyer of lives held accountable for his crimes. Purveyors of fake news and malicious propaganda need to be pay a price for abusing the 1st amendment.
57
This twisted individual should made to sit down in the evidence room, and thumb through the photographs of the aftermath.
Every day, non-stop, for the next 10 years.
55
My daughter was six when that happened. I have experienced so many moments, activities and had the joy to watch her grow to 13. She’s no longer a baby and yet not an adult.
My heart breaks for those parents who aren’t able to be going through middle school right now as much as it broke for them when this nightmare happened to them. This country was so sick over these murders. I know I had the worst visions of little children, my child and her classmates, being terrified and wishing for Mommy and Daddy.
The idea that our President went on this program shows how vile he is. It’s people like Mr. Jones that make you pray there is a God and he will be judged - harshly.
All for the Almighty buck hocking junk to lunatics - let’s not forget what this is really about and it isn’t free speech.
195
This comes down to a question of what kind of nation we want to have. We can be a nation of speech with no civil consequences or a nation of responsible speech with the potential of severe monetary consequences for harm caused. I choose the latter.
106
@Brian — On what basis do the families intend to prove that all of the people who have harassed them and threatened them were due to Alex Jones' statements and not their own independent conclusions?
How can they prove their hardship was caused by Alex Jones per se? He wasn't the only person pushing this conspiracy.
2
They don’t have to prove anything of the sort. Only that Jones intentionally defamed them. Which he did and continues to do. The actions of others because of Jones’ actions is awful and problematic, but they aren’t the basis for the legal claims.
7
@puma
These parents are suing for public defamation by Alex Jones. They are not suing for harm caused by his followers.
These families were not public figures the day after their children were murdered, but victims who were in mourning for their lost babies. They are entitled to protect their good names and character as any law abiding private citizen is.
For the sake of profit from suspect products, Alex Jones has knowingly and horribly defamed these parents during their time of grievous loss. For this, he is culpable for great civil damages.
Jones may not be the only perpetrator of this defamation, but he certainly is the most public. Others so inclined to have followed his lead will undoubtedly have their turn in civil court after Alex Jones goes down on flames.
2
Alex Jones is the nightmare child of the Internet. When he and the internet were conceived years ago, there was so much initial promise: love, openness and sharing. But they have both grown up, and developed ugly characteristics which often overshadow their potential promise. There is one major way they differ. The internet has many redeeming qualities, and Alex Jones has none.
181
Mr. Jones and Mr. Stone can share a cell as far as I'm concerned. They are brothers from different mothers.
56
This is not at all a freedom of speech issue. I'm sure Jones and his supporters would l like to deflect the conversation to that.
The is not being free to say what you want - the real issue is being responsible for what you do say.
Mr. Jones has spoken and is now being held responsible.
65
I lost my only child to leukemia 19 years ago. The grief journey is a hellish experience. Thinking about the horror of losing a child to gun violence lets loose emotions varying from frustration, anger and the question: When will this stop? The evil spewed by conspiracy theorist's is a form of terrorism. It's used to stir up the emotions of a select group of people searching for a cause they can latch onto and provide a sense of identity, even if it causes harm. I hope and pray the parents of Sandy Hook victims receive the justice they deserve. More importantly, I hope and pray that these cases will help to sweep Jones and his followers into the dark corners of lost causes and end the pain they create.
292
@Mark Well said. I'm sorry for your loss.
13
No one is asking for rules about what can be said to be reset. Defamation laws have been in existence are being used. It's taken way too long for these laws to catch up to Alex Jones, but catch up they have. Did he really think he could continue to spew increasingly damaging lies without ever being held responsible?
110
@Vanessa Hall
So True. Actual Malice and a Reckless Disregard for the Truth are elements of Jones' business plan.
23
I once encountered someone like Wolfgang Halbig while working as a government analyst. There was an applicable law for our office that operated something like the Freedom of Information Act. Basically everything I touched was technically public record. If you received a request, you were legally required to respond to the best of your ability.
Someone posing as a local reporter discovered the requirement and weaponized it. We called all the news papers. He was not a reporter. You might normally expect one or two information requests a year. Mostly people looking for industry information on government contracts. They wanted inside information on how to better bid a contract.
All of sudden though, this quack shows up and we're getting two or three information requests a day. We're not talking about specific or detailed requests either. I mean scatter shot nonsense bordering on incoherence. I half joked once we should just box up the server and let him deal with sorting through the files. That's more or less what he was asking us to send him. Everything.
Aside from being scary, the entire episode was a huge waste of time. This guy was out harassing a government office. If I had to guess, he wasted my entire tax bill several times over before higher authorities intervened. The director eventually called his bluff and threatened court. That's when he finally went away.
The funny thing is we weren't a controversial office in the least. At some point you ask yourself, why us?
53
There wouldn't be a Mr. Jones unless a lot of people listened to his show and helped the show / outlet make money -- sponsors, advertising, et al. That's the scary thing. I spent most of my life thinking kooks like Jones didn't matter and were skulking around two-bit towns or urban meccas, lurking in the shadows of desolate lives. That was my mistake. The internet, modern media outlets, and the rebirth of partisan politics in this Brave New World has demonstrated that the kooks aren't in the majority, but they have enough participation to field their only lonely loudmouthed teams.
88
@Mark F
There wouldn't be a Mr. Jones if the United States had sensible laws against defamation, like most other western democracies.
In the US, it appears you can defame anyone with the most outrageous lies and get away with it, unless the person defamed has wads of cash to spend on law suits.
That's just nuts, as this story makes clear.
Why, in a case like this, where a overwhelmingly real tragedy, reported world wide, is being denied, should it take more than one trip to court to get a cease and desist order with a $10,00 fine per incident of violation of the order?
The answer, or course, is perverted sense of "freedom" that has taken hold of the American psyche. Since when does your freedom include the right to smash me in the face, verbally at least?
4
CNN reported that Alex Jones's "show also has the backing of President Donald Trump, who has argued Jones has an amazing reputation and deserves a Pulitzer."
It's impossible to fathom the evil of Jones, Trump, and their cohorts.
I am kind of in awe that these families could maintain any semblance of composure in a courtroom when faced with the true embodiment of evil that is Alex Jones. I can't even fathom that kind of dignity, and that kind of bravery, as they try to stop this monster from destroying their lives to line his pockets.
Criminal harassment for profit and inciting violence for profit - if they're not felonies, then why not?
322
@common sense advocate
"Inciting violence for profit" as a crime?
Have we forgotten how reprehensibly CNN (since you mentioned them) and the other cable outlets promoted the American bombing and invasion of Iraq, before and after?
Martial music, custom graphics, paid propagandists, dissent stifled? The complete package, as it were, in the interest of ratings....
Despicable as this man Jones is, he's hardly alone in American media. It's just that the others are aligned with accepted lies.
@jrd - that would be one school of thought - however, the crucial difference is that CNN and other media outlets were fed lies about weapons of mass destruction directly from the Commander in Chief and Secretary of Defense - so therein lies the difference between lies.
7
Alex Jones is just using his first amendment right. He did not encourage his listeners to harrsss or
Slander anyone. This lawsuit is just bogus. I hope the judge rules in Jones favor and doesn’t impede on his rights.
5
@Jenny Girl
Accusing mourning parents of being "crisis actors" in the face of absolute proof to the contrary is not "free speech," it is defamation -- and in this case, for the basest of motives -- money.
I hope they take every penny that monster has.
211
@Jenny Girl
Nobody has the right to knowingly defame others or to incite violence against others.
That's the law. Not to mention a sin.
112
@Jenny Girl
"He did not encourage his listeners to harrsss or
Slander anyone."
Perhaps he didn't, but he himself surely has and has been legally forced to make retractions and publish apologies over his mendacious, immature and dangerous statements regarding Chobani yogurt and Comet Ping-Pong (aka pizzagate).
The first amendment allows someone to shout 'fire!' in a crowded movie theater, but it doesn't preclude them from being held responsible for their heinous and very dangerous speech.
66
I am elated to see a class action suit against this propagandist; I hope it propels him to a new line of work where he has no access to public airwaves.
61
You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater and libel others. Jones has done just that and he should pay restitution to the tune of $20 million dollars to each family member he has defamed. This would shut down his business and keep any other such businesses he tries to start or fund “under obligation”. Cut off his creditors and sponsors and he’s through. Back under the rock where he belongs!
33
Fake news is free speech. Conspiracy theories is free speech. Real news is free speech. Defamation and threats is free speech.
If free speech is paramount, who is going to regulate it ?
3
@PK Jharkhand The courts decide whether something is protected by free speech. No one is allowed to use their right to free speech to cause harm to another person or persons.
47
@PK Jharkhand Defamation isn't free speech. There are laws against it and are being used in this very case. Threats aren't covered by free speech nor is speech inciting violence or harassment, also being used in this case. See also hate speech and lies deliberately told to damage or injury reputation, also being used in this case. That would be regulation. The law has always regulated this matter. I feel forced to add that in some legal instances ignorance of your own ignorance - that is, having no malice in your utterances and believing what you say no matter how wrong - is a legitimate defence. So you're off the hook.
18
@PK Jharkhand Defamation and threats are not free speech, and that is where the conservative right wing and Breit bart supporters get it all wrong every day.
40
I don't know what the maximum legal punishment is for Alex Jones, but the nothing our judicial system metes out to him could be too harsh. Jones a shameful opportunist who enriched himself committing vile and dishonest acts against his fellow citizens -- people who had already suffered the worst misfortune life can inflict. In turn, his hideous, paranoid, deranged fabrications roused some among his audience to commit their own hateful crimes.
If there is such a thing as karma, may Alex Jones's be big and brutal. And may the legal system makes sure it's also soon.
71
It takes a genuinely evil person to harass a grieving parent with such a claim.
152
@Person
Yep, you can't hardly get any lower than that and you are making money off of it to boot.
3
Being held liable and subject to economic devastation is too good for Alex Jones. He deserves far worse
66
Testify under oath? Why, that’s not fair! That’s ‘the perjury trap!’
Indeed it is. First, let’s hear from the mendacious Mr. Jones. Afterwards, let’s get his biggest fan, one Donald J. Trump, to spill the beans under penalty of perjury.
Then let’s restore the concept of ‘truth’ to public political discourse and base public policy on hard facts and documentary evidence - not the paranoid delusions of demented old white men and their hysterical followers.
46
Interesting, isn't it, that the hard right's leading philosophical light is a lying con artist.
You can decide for yourself who that person is.
55
People get shot dead everywhere in the world, not anything like the numbing frequency here, mind you, but two consequences are uniquely American: hounding of the bereaved by unhinged conspiracy theorists, and crippling medical bills from hospital ER wards, that prompt desperate GoFundMe appeals.
How reassuring is it to the rest of us that those most passionate about keeping their private arsenals are also the most irrational and irrationally angry? Not very ...
40
Alex Jones calls one of the worst massacres of children in this countries history a "hoax". What more do you need to know, and what more needs to be said about the man?
I hope he loses everything. And I mean everything.
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@Chicago Guy The only thing "more [that] needs to be said about this man" is that Donald Trump called him an "amazing person" and suggested that he win the Pulitzer Prize.
The utter evil of these men escapes anything I ever thought possible.
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Jones and followers are execrable.
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These unstable stalkers and believers in the "fake news" of far right media establishments is a result of the unstable people who are peddling it (Trump, Infowars, Fox News).
Whether Trump stays in office or not, even if he loses in 2020, I don't see it stopping. Perhaps once Trump is no longer in office his Twitter and other accounts can be shut down like Infowars has been. His lies are just as bad, and on a far larger scale.
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Finally someone who won't be able to hide behind the first amendment for using hate and defamation to enrich himself. Infowar is a fraud
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Can't Alex Jones and his ilk be charged and prosecuted for child abuse for spewing his hate on the child survivors?
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I hope that Mr. Purfield gets the help he needs through the system, but I doubt it. My heart aches for these families, not only through their loss but with the stress of constant pursuit from those angry, twisted souls that are absolutely dangerous to others if not treated for mental health issues. Their hearts are hardened by deceit.
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All the power to these parents who have suffered unimaginable pain and agony. I hope they win and take Jones for all he has.
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I live in a town neighboring Newtown and am acquainted wth people involved in this tragedy. What kind of men follow the parents of murdered children and torment them? Seemingly only people as sick as the young man who pulled the trigger. I've lived a long time and never have I come across any story that upsets me - and depresses me - more than this one does.
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@charlie, I worked in Newtown before and after the Sandy Hook tragedy, witnessing the effects it had on the community. My children were elementary school age at the time, so the incident defied comprehension. To deny what happened and incite people to harass grieving parents is beyond the pale. There are no words, but in this case, at least there's justice.
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I agree. This is like a second derivative of a disease. The harassers are among the most perverted and lost our society has produced. I don’t know whether to wish some sort of justice on them, or pity how far lost they are.
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The legal system can sometimes be slowed down ... but it will get Jones in the end.
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Here’s hoping Jones and his ilk get what they deserve.
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Excellent journalism, thank you NYT.
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I assume that at some point he is going to claim insanity as a defense. I don't think that helps him in a civil suit.
But he'll probably insist that the insane have the right to freedom of speech. That's basically what this trial is about: Are there limits on the insane in our society? I really want to know because the precedent will apply to our President too.
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Would like to see old Alex admit that he was just offering entertainment & it isn't his fault if some excitable types (like Trump) took him seriously. He didn't make the world ("weigh it but with the grossness of this age") but he was simply taking advantage of the opportunities capitalism provides everybody. I want it to be made absolutely clear so that everybody will realize Alex played them for marks and rubes. Then I want the defense to fail and for old Alex to be convicted of incitement to imminent lawless action and defamation, stripped of all of his assets and immured in the darkest and most forlorn penitentiary our nation can provide. Nothing personal: Alex is just a particularly pernicious carrier of a disease that must be eradicated if we are to survive as a people.
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@Michael Joseph
Let's add fire and brimstone too, Michael. It's hard to imagine people more cruel then Jones and his abettors. Words fail!
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@Michael Joseph
I hope that Mr Jones has to surrender every penny/ million he's made through his lies and fabrication. There
is a special hell for people of his ilk.
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@bILL
Enjoy your hot times in Hades with Alex Jones! "Coffee break's over. Back on your heads!"
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What Alex Jones and his followers have done to these families, who have already experienced horrific tragedy, is unforgivable.
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Is Jones not in violation of some kind of law against harassment and stalking or inciting others to violence?
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@Lynn no he is just exercising his first amendment right to free speech. Never did he or Fetzer & Halbig encourage any of their listeners to harass, stalk, or defame any of the parents. The judge should rule in favor of the defendants otherwise he would be impending on their rights
@Jenny Girl
The families are not going after their harassers, though Jones and others lies clearly created an atmosphere in which they thrived and felt enabled to harass (a clear moral delinquency as opposed to a proven legal one). The families are, however, going after Jones and the vast legal consensus is that they will win. There is certainly no danger of the case being thrown out. I fear you are to be grievously disappointed, if not humbled.
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I can’t figure any easy and legal means of throwing Alex Jones in the slammer for a good long time, but I am willing to settle for seeing him sued into oblivion.
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God. What that man has done to those families.
I rarely wish bad things to happen to anyone but I've made a heartfelt exception for Alex Jones. He truly deserves to be imprisoned for life with extremely violent criminals and his assets forfeited and donated to Sandy Hook Promise.
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To try to shoehorn this into a First Amendment box does a major disservice to the spirit of free speech and a general ignorance of 18th Century American and British history, culture and politics.
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This is exactly what we get when people embrace trumpism - It is a cancer that is eating away at our society.
It is very fitting that trump said jone’s reputation was “excellent “. Just like trump says of his own reputation. Birds of a feather.
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Until relatively recently, the cure for hateful speech was more speech, and the U.S. Supreme Court deemed nearly anything other than "fighting words" as protected. With the internet acting as a vector for an infinite number of information sources, however, that has changed.
"If we’re going to reset the rules about what you’re allowed to say, then let’s reset them for everyone,” Mr. Randazza said. “And I don’t think anybody would be happy with that.”
Mr. Randazza may be wrong. The time has come to reset the rules. How that will be done in the future will be complex and take years before it's as fair to everyone as it can be, but that's as it should be with such overhauls.
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@Bridgman Jones is being prosecuted under existing defamation laws. What "overhauls" would you suggest as necessary beyond the First Amendment status quo?
@Sohan Dsouza I don't have a law degree and the complexity of this is beyond my scope. As much as I dislike the current trend toward "thought policing," perhaps in the future, speech such as Jones's could be curtailed before a substantial suit against it were warranted. Can the internet be curated like the comments section of the NY Times? No, not at present, but in a decade or so artificial technology may rise to a level where that's possible.
It is a perversion of the very notion of free speech that the corporate enablers of Jones and his "theories" lay back and count their money, while this farcical defense wends its expensive way through the court system.
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This is a great example of the extremely asymmetric tribalism we see in the U.S. today. Sure, liberals have some wacky theories and they tend to emphasize identity too much. Overall, on a "tribalism index" that ranges from 0 for no tribalism to 100 for an extreme level, I would give them a 35.
Conservatives? With "heroes" like Alex Jones spreading hideous lies and, incredibly, a huge audience that slurps up those lies like corn syrup, conservatives have broken the index and shot way past 1,000.
I'm a right leaner. But the tolerance -- no, cultivation -- of idiots like Jones and the fools that believe him is incredible. And every time I read a columnist decrying the tribalism on both sides, I wonder what they think the left does that can even come close to the neanderthal-level tribalism of the right.
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@Cary Indeed the Alex Jones cultists seem like those of Westboro Baptist Church who persecute and torment grieving families of fallen veterans at their funerals. The rationale of the Westboro cultists is to protest gays gaining any rights in the US I think.
I doubt anyone would describe either cult as liberals.
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The sun will shine bright when the sandy hook victims get the justice they deserve. When all guns are banned! that will be biggest awakening in this country.
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The kind of things we tend to forget: Trump described Jones as an amazing person.
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Re: "...Families of Sandy Hook victims have racked up a string of victories in three defamation lawsuits against the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones..."
With apologies to spiders, for a potentially, insulting comparison...
A. Jones reminds one of a TV promo for a 'Nature' show, where a spider eats a frog, and is eaten, in, turn, by a larger frog, shortly, thereafter!
I hope the Newtown_Survivor folks eat, like frogs...er, ah...get their (sadly, earned) civil damages, etc.!
BTW: As a retired paid 'N, volunteer 1St. Responder, myself...
I'd LAUGH at the phrase 'crises_reenactors'...meant to suggest NO ONE was actually, murdered, (in Newtown-Sandyhook), were it NOT, so cruelly, ignorant!
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The First Amendment doesn't include protections for slander and libel.
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@misterdangerpants Exactly. Which is why Deborah Lipstadt won her suit against David Irving who denied the Holocaust. There is a limit to what one can say.
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@misterdangerpants The first amendment does offer limited protection to libel and slander. One of the most famous of all first amendment cases, New York Times v. Sullivan, held that the first amendment protects those who libel or slander a public official (later expanded to public figure) unless the victim proves by clear and convincing evidence that the defamer spoke or wrote with "actual malice," defined as knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard of a probability of falsity. For private figures on matters of public concern, the first amendment protects those who defame unless the victim proves the speaker/publisher was negligent it uttering the defamatory falsehood; in such cases, to recover general or punitive damages, the plaintiff must prove actual malice. These standards, though sufficient to have protected the Times, will not protect Infowars and Jones, who the plaintiffs are likely to prove wrote with actual malice.
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@renee minor note - he sued her and lost. Great film.
Almost always, it's my position that "the answer to bad (or horrible, in this case) speech is more speech" as I learned from a law professor. This case may have broken me of that position. My heart aches for the pain these families have suffered; not once, but over and over again as a result of Jones and his ilk. The idea of Jones accruing wealth on the backs of dead 1st graders is truly despicable. My thoughts and prayers are with the honorable attorneys representing the Sandy Hook family.
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@Pickles Wyngarden The problem is that libel and slander can’t really be stopped with more speech by people who are not public figures. That’s why the standards are lower in libel cases for people like these families than they are for public figures.
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@Pickles Wyngarden More speech is effective only if it's being heard. So a big problem here is that outrageous speech gets a lot of air; calm rebuttal gets ignored.
Also, libel laws generally protect only the living. The dead, including small school children, are presumed not to be harmed by what's being said about them.
What Jones is doing is more akin to inciting violence. And it has worked. I remember during the trial of the Chicago 8 (nee 7) that was a central issue. And the upshot was that prohibiting such incitement did not violate First Amendment protections.
This, however, is worse--he's inciting violence against particular individuals. And he's doing it for profit.
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I hope the Sandy Hook families get every penny Alex Jones has ever earned plus his eternal silence on the subject of school shootings. It would be a start. A tiny bit of recompense for the needless agony he has inflicted upon them.
Wishing them peace today and every day.
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@Njlatelifemom Not enough. Life imprisonment as well.
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@Njlatelifemom
You do not what you think you know.
https://archive.org/details/WeNeedToTalkAboutSandyHookNEW2015Documentary
It couldn’t be happening to a nice guy. Insert sarcasm here ________. I hope Alex Jones ends up penniless.
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Jones’ behavior is the mirror image of shouting “fire” in a crowded theater causing a stampede and death. He is despicable, not protected by the first amendment, and should be prosecuted and jailed for a very long time!
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This is business that should be shut down/period .
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The first amendment does not protect lying.
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Actually, it kind of does.
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@Robert Not defamation, though.
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Actually, that too.
Freedom of speech in the US is not absolute, no matter what Alex Jones would have people believe for his own money-making purposes.
Too many lies and slanders, and too much hatred and harassment take shelter in the crevices of US society under the excuse of the First Amendment. Only a few miscreants benefit; everyone else loses one way or another, and the country is being slowly ripped apart.
Wishing every success to the Sandy Hook families in their defamation suits.
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The idea that people like Jones and Trump can get rich in this country is the best argument to be made for socialism; i.e. folks get paid according to their value to society.
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It is about time that someone who spews the despicable kind of vitriolic untruths that this man has done - and profited from - for years is finally facing justice. I only hope that the courts continue to take this matter with the seriousness it deserves. This is worse than shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater; it is shouting "No Fire!" after the building has been engulfed in flames and the families of the victims have been left to grieve the horror of their deaths for the rest of their lives.
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@Leslie I am writing a response to you because your analogy is so right. His claims about these terrible, tragic situations ARE like shouting, "No Fire!" when there is indeed a blaze a-raging. If I were helping to write briefs in the case, I'd use this. Thank you.
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