This is more dangerous than we imagine. It is yet one more example of painting the opposition as something to be feared, rather than engaged in a battle of ideas. I once was a mainstream Republican, but now I'm considered a liberal (or worse). Meanwhile those to my left are now radical socialists who "hate America." As the right drives further into the ditch, the center lane seems that much further left, and dangerous to those in the ditch.
1
Socialism just got the biggest boost ever from Trump . If he’s against it then that confirms it : Socialism today , tomorrow , forever !
Sometimes I wonder what Democratic consultants are being paid for. While one doesn’t want stoop to the screeching politics of Mr. Trump, the fact is branding works, and he has shown himself to be facile in this. Meet it with counter-branding. For instance, instead of allowing him to wave socialism about, call it egalitarianism, which sounds American and casts him as the protector of the economic elite. Whenever The Wall is mentioned, call it The Wall of Fear, which strikes at our national sense of ruggedness and independence, while implicating Mr. Trump’s fear-mongering. A “smart wall” is a step in the right direction, but I would call it “smart security.”
“No, we’re opposed to any funding for The Wall of Fear,” the senator said. “But Democrats are in favor of $5.2 billion for Smart Security.”
“Egalitarianism is the central spirit of America. It is the spirit of opportunity, the spirit of hope, the spirit of dreams for your children, when wealth is not confined in the hands of the very few, but flows through the nation like a mighty river on a sunny day.”
Finally, I would take a very close look at a presidential candidate who uses as their slogan a single word: Democracy. Climate change, gun violence, health care are critical. But restoring democracy after Mr. Trump’s assaults is the crucial first step. I will wear the button. I will put up the lawn sign. I will send the donation.
9
@Alan
You hit the nail on the hand. Democrats let Republicans define the agenda, always responding to their lies, and define the words used in tree debate.
Frank Luntz is a Republican pollster who does focus groups and invented phrases like death taxes, death panels, etc. Kuntz figures out what the hot button phrase is and every Republican repeats it until the Democrats start to repeat it.
Democrats need to talk about the issues that are important to the People, not whatever Fox Need says that day.
And they need to keep demanding that the media speak English not use Republican code as if it was useful dialogue.
A general that lets the opponent choose the battle field and the weapons has already lost. That is what centrist Democrats did for 25 years.
Progressives are taking control of the conversation, because that is how you win the battle of ideas. Centrists can compromise with the base of their own party or get out of the way.
2
"They are lurching left." - a Republican strategist circa 2019...and 2010...and 1996...and 1992...
Here's an idea: consider your own position Mr. Republican strategist. If you walk off to the right, it will look TO YOU like I'm going to the left. What the Democrats are proposing (higher taxes on the rich, guaranteed medical care, a good education without a lot of debt) has been popular for at least 30 years and probably more like 50 years.
And for all that time Republicans have been scaring people into not going for it by yelling about "socialists". One of these days, Republicans are going to get sooo far into their "free market" ideology that they're going to call businessmen and women "socialists" for daring to encourage their employees to take public transit. And then they'll call those employees "socialists" for being mad when they change the standard work week from 40 to 60 hours.
1
I wish when people speak of "socialism" they would specifically define it. Then the debate would not be so much about emotionally laden vague insinuations.
2
Republicans deride socialism yet willing allocate $600 billion of our tax dollars on defense spending. Considering this blatant hypocrisy and the fact that the people who would benefit most from social programs also paradoxically vote Republican it seems the Democratic Party is toxic and should consider a major rebranding.
Experiments in centrally planned economies have been a resounding failure, however private-public partnerships like military contractors seem to be politically tenable. Socialism all but in name. Create the illusion of the free market while directing the means of production by awarding contracts to the companies deemed most worthy, or something like that.
Also the old USSR is a far better example of why centrally planned economies fail. The tiny petro-state of Venezuela is nothing like America in terms of a diversified economy. Apples to Oranges.
1
I am curious as to how U.S. Military Spending may skew the GNP and it's effect on preventing Universal Healthcare in the country?
1
Socialism is the biggest threat to a country's long term success, and it is not surprising that most successful countries aren't socialist. By that definition, liberalism is also a threat to a country's long term success.
Today, being a socialist means that you endorse Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, public schools and universities, public hospitals, parks and libraries, public transportation, roads and bridges, the military, police, fire department and so much more. According to Republicans, everything that we pay for collectively and that benefit all of us is socialism, so what is wrong with that? We need more socialism, not less!
2
Socialism is nothing less than capitalist subsidized communism.
Funny Trump should mention "socialism" in his speech. Republicans have always regarded Medicare and Social Security as a form of socialism. When Trump and his Republicans try to undo both programs, will they cite Venezuela as justification?
5
Socialism and communism are about a single political group which determines what is produced, how it is produced and how what is produced is distributed. It is not about a country having compassionate and humane policies for the people of the country.
Compassionate and humane government policies are not inconsistent with free markets and ( regulated) capitalism.
(NOTE: one reason regulations are necessary s because there are people like trump use use business law to cheat people.)
However certainly the closest thing we have to socialism is trump using taxpayers dollars to bolster businesses which have failed or are failing in the free market.
4
So now the anti-social party is attacking the "socialist" Democrats for proposing things that will help most voters.
Typical.
And they will sell it with lies, emotional nonsense, false equivalence, repetition, and volume.
Even more typical.
4
All Trump’s howling against “socialism” will not stand in the way of his “socialist” —i.e. taxpayer-funded—government-issued orange jump suit, prison cell, meals, and exercise equipment when he is finally removed from society and locked up.
6
Today I watched the national prayer breakfast organized by “The Fellowship” a Christian organization led by a president who’s message was ...... love each other , we are a country that looks out for it’s neediest citizens. A “Christian” way of living says Mike Pence ......yet this is the same president who wanted to eliminate Obama care, change Medicare and reduce social security benefits for seniors. This morning we saw a president who says he is taking care of the neediest people while at the same time he is eliminating or reducing benefits for those neediest people
Which is the truth You decide and vote accordingly
4
No dictator likes "socialism." After all, socialists don't like walls.
1
TRUMP=FASCISM. The GOP is working to take away your Social Security and Medicare. Enough said for 2020.
4
“The idea of throwing the socialist thing out there politically is pretty crafty because, truly, there is just enough truth in there to make it sticky and interesting,” said Mike Murphy
This comment captures the sick decay of American politics. It is not about truth and good policy, but the lies that can win by fooling what are regarded as hapless citizens.
Congratulations to the writer though for actually talking about something that might matter rather than Nancy Pelosi stupid viral clap, or women dressed in white or any of the equally dumb things Trump did in the speech.
1
the Republicans substituting socialists for Communists in their old Playbook.
1
Farm bill?
2
Trump didn’t have to do it. NYT and it’s band of columnists had already done that to Bernie Sanders during the democratic primary. Apparently NYT did not understand the term democratic socialist and ridiculed it at every given opportunity, just look at the archives!
3
America's Franco fueled by Putin. Revenge of the Republicans.
Isn't Trump's pal Vladimir Putin a socialist?
No one need to "paint socialists as villains". They are, pure and simple. Next issue.......
As Trump bragged, he loves the uneducated, which ironically includes himself. Since the advent of the progressive income tax and the New Deal agenda, the United States has been and continues to be an economic blend of capitalism and socialism just like all the more advanced nations. And that is a good thing. Unchecked capitalism runs rampant over the population and unchecked socialism stagnates it. The United States already embraces socialism in many ways and Trump is a moron.
3
Whenever I hear putin rattling his tenny tiny sword I think of General "Buck" Turgidson's unforgettable quote from Dr. Strangelove:
"Mr. President, if I may speak freely, the Russkie talks big, but frankly, we think he's short of know how. I mean, you just can't expect a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys."
2
Every time I see someone complaining about "socialism" I think about my brother-in-law who found a lifelong niche at the U.S. Navy, in procurement, where he would enjoy the benefits of being in the military without putting himself at risk. He's pretty much as "right wing" as people can be, the only member of the extended family who has lived off the wealth created by others, enjoying lifetime health and retirement coverage, and the transition to government employment after his retirement from the Navy. Talk about "socialism"...
5
@ejr1953
Have you read "Hillbilly Elegy"?
Same mindset. The guy got military pay, pension and a free education to rise above his Appalachian roots, but declares that "socialism" only makes people dependent.
3
The way conservatives try to kill social programs they don't like is to give them evil names.
Go back and read the arguments against Social Security and Medicare.
The conservative argument is these programs were socialist and socialism is the same as evil Russian communism.
Of course the real reason conservatives dislike these programs is that the rich are taxed to help pay for care of the non rich and the rich do not want to pay higher taxes.
But they can't say that so they call the social programs socialist or communist.
Sam Rayburn told FDR that to pass Social Security FDR could not call SS, SOcial Security but to call it some form of insurance.
Look at your pay stubs.
The Social Security payroll tax deduction is labeled FICA.
FEDERAL INSURANCE CONTRIBUTIONS ACT.
4
Inside 50 years robots will be able to do every human task. We're going to see mass effects of it in the job markets inside a decade... we're already feeling it now.
Capitalism's days are numbered.
All the debating in the world isn't going to change what's coming... if we don't adopt socialism at least for basic human needs... housing, food, health care... expect a lot of carnage.
How can a society built on jobs exist if there are none?
It's coming. There is no stopping it. Especially in our current capitalist system where human labor is detrimental to the bottom line. Capitalism is going to exacerbate our need for socialism. It's just going to speed up the inevitable process.
4
If universal healthcare is socialism, then what are farm, energy, transportation and flood insurance subsidies (did I miss any)? THOSE subsidies are certainly not capitalism.
4
The 0.1% must really be worried if they have Trump calling the socialist boogeyman. Interesting that the precipitous decline of middle class income that both parties acknowledge has happened under the late stage capitalism we are witnessing in this country. Also interesting that some of the highest quality of life surveys come from "socialist" Scandinavia where tax rates are astronomical and health care is universal. All this POTUS understands about economics is, "I got mine."
1
Trump paints socialism as a threat.
Yet polls show most Americans approve of higher taxes on the billionaires, universal healthcare, and higher minimum wages.
1
In a true capitalist system, there would be no government subsidies for corporations. No tax credits, no intellectual property defense by government agencies, no military coverage for their overseas operations. No subsidized education to provide them with a workforce.
Funny how "socialism" is only a dirty word when its benefits are provided to REAL, as opposed to CORPORATE people.
2
Aparently the once-imminent imposition of Sharia Law has been postponed-or maybe it wasn't scary enough any longer. So, now the Right is back to warning against Socialism.
The Dems should dig out the video of Ronald Reagen warning that the adoption of Medicare would lead in 75 years to a land where people would talk about how their grandparents had once been free.
1
Since 1932, Democrats have inflicted dreadful socialist policies on America like Social Security, Medicare, & Medicaid. It is really terrible that Democrats have undermined America by ensuring a secure retirement for the elderly & helping them as well as the poor afford healthcare.
1
Socialists are villains. But there is good reason to believe that, in spite of their use of socialist language, America’s “democratic socialist” leaders are not really socialists. Indeed, whenever Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez name the countries that they would like the United States to emulate, they invariably name social-democratic, not democratic-socialist, countries. (Social democracy is capitalism with a strong social safety net and other socialistic features; democratic socialism is outright socialism, albeit achieved through gradual, democratic means.) And the policies that they favor, while not inconsistent with democratic socialism, would not, in and of themselves, turn the United States into a democratic-socialist country; they would turn it into a social-democratic country. (Far more radical policies, which Sanders and AOC and others have never come close to endorsing, would be needed to turn the U.S. into a truly democratic-socialist country.)
So, Trump is not wrong to be railing against socialism. Those who believe in social democracy are wrong to call themselves socialists. The best response to charges of socialism is not to defend socialism; it is to say, “Yes, socialism is terrible, which is why I’m a social democrat, not a socialist.”
1
His turning to "socialism"as a great evil was completely predictable.
Yes let's rid of T.R.'s FDA.
Evil Dr. Frances Kelsey of the FDA kept the drug thalidomide off the US market.
Women who got the drug out of US gave birth to babies with underdeveloped limbs.
How dare Dr. Kelsey and the FDA deprive women of the opportunity to take a drug that causes babies with underdeveloped limbs.
1
I am sure most Democrats are not in favor of true socialism,; that is, the direct ownership or effective control of all the means of production by the government.
Those that use that term are not being clear. Mr. Trump is picking up on the label that Bernie Sanders and AOC have taken on themselves.
Democrats need to be clear that some social services in the US need to be expanded to more adequately take of its citizens. Which yes may take the form of socialism. Health care is a good example of something that many countries provide for their citizens like police protection or other municipal services.
Honest, intelligent people can debate what a more socialized health care model might look like , but clearly our system in the US needs a redo.
To pay for more services, means collecting more taxes (I pay plenty) or allocating the federal budget away from guns to butter (not as easy as it sounds).
Again honest and intelligent people can argue over the most effective taxation system and the most effective way of allocating the government's limited resources.
But most of our politicians prefer to use short hand phrases and terms like "Socialist" to demagogue the issues rather than solving them.
2
@gpickard
Certainly Bernie Sanders, and, I think AOC contiually remind people that they are Democratic Socialists, quite different from Being a Socialist.
@gpickard
Darn. The 3rd paragraph should read "...take care of its citizens..."
@gpickard
Dear Lucy Cooke,
I am not sure there is much difference between being a democratic socialist and being a socialist unless you are making a distinction between being a dictatorial socialist and a democratic socialist.
My point is labels matter. If you are a democratic socialist, that is fine to me, I am not hung up on the label, but most Americans are and they often don't know what socialism really means.
That is why I am admonishing Democrats to be clear about the social programs they advocate for and if necessary be able to dispel the myth that Democrats want to nationalize all the industries in America.
There may be a few crackpots out there that would go for full out nationalization, but fortunately, I believe they are very few.
When in the mid 1950's the Salk injectable polio vaccine was shown to be effective the evil FEDERAL GOVERNMENT [Sorry moderator for using this obscene phrase] instituted a program of free Salk innoculations for school children.
{I received this series of three Salk shots}
Conservatives were horrified.
IKE's HEW Secretary Oveta Culp Hobby called this
"SOCIALIZED medicine thru the back door}
Fortunately IKE overruled the Neanderthals and polio decreased to almost zero along with similar decrease of paralysis and the iron lung.
But this GOVERNMENT program was an example of evil SOCIALISM.
5
To be clear, socialism & democracy are apples and oranges. Democracy is a political ideology. Socialism needs to be compared to capitalism.
Socialism(economic system) deals with the redistribution of wealth within a society. In other words, economic equality is good and healthy for society. Socialism believes the govt should help with income inequality by providing certain benefits: free public education, free or subsidized healthcare, social security for the elderly, higher taxes on the rich.
Capitalism feels that the less the govt provides the better. Let the free market determine the winners and losers.
To be honest, every develop country has some socialist programs. The U.S. does. But things seem to be heading towards eliminating or reducing the social programs we have, when instead they should be increasing. Especially in the areas of education, health, and social security for the elderly.
The Uber welathy don't want socialism because they don't want to share. Plain and simple greed. Socialism will not put any of them in financial distress. Nor will it prevent anyone who is not wealthy from becoming wealthy. So remember, socialism is not the enemy, they are.
8
@Felix This is as true as Trump’s claim that Mexico is invading Texas. Marx’s definition of socialism that has been accepted by everybody except clueless or malicious Bernie supporters is the state’s ownership of the means of production. In other words, no private ownership of companies, shops, factories, hospitals or anything else. The government controls the entire economic sphere and distributes goods the way it sees fit. Check out Venezuela to see how well it works out. In Norway which people like you love to point to, democratic socialists have 6 percent of the popular vote, and there are plenty of millionaires and billionaires. So either you defend expropriation of capital (another Marx’s phrase), or stop spreading disinformation.
Astounding - that being we are the greatest country in the world, the richest, the smartest, the most powerful the thought of a Universal Health Plan would take this nation down the path of socialism.
The thought that putting the welfare of the people of this nation first, investing in education, health care, infrastructure is an antithesis to capitalism. A thriving populace, a modern well-run transportation system (we are so behind in this regard), along with a healthy and educated populace, investing in our society is what would make us prosper.
3
Trump's tax cut is worsening the already widening wealth gap.
Trump's supporters should fear this tax cut's effect on the lower 90% of Americans. There is less tax money for government services to support these Americans. Easy for everyone to call it "socialism" until they realize that "socialism" refers not just to
Food Stamps, Housing for the Poor, and Medicaid, but also to
to Medicare and Social Security and Federal Disaster Aid after Hurricanes and Fires.
Do voters really want to cut all of the above? It is deemed Christian to help the poor with food and housing; do Republican voters really want to cut off government aid to the poor? Do they want to cut off Government aid to the Middle class? This aid is the "socialism" that Trump refers to. If it is cut, the Middle Class will hurt big-time. At the same time their jobs are taken by automation.
Can't the Republican voters see this?
3
Why do we have to put labels on things? People form Governments to help protect and help in tough times. Medicare, Medicaid,Social Security, food stamps, meals on wheels all forms of Socialism. What is wrong with helping those in need? Other than Medicare and Social Security I don't qualify for many other programs, So I should be against them?
Socialism is a bad word till you are getting the benefit.
2
Trump has conflated socialism and communism in an effort to demean and reduce social safety net programs and universal healthcare.
Social safety net programs don't necessarily lead to socialism. Many other Western nations, including our neighbor Canada, have universal healthcare but are not socialist countries in the sense that Trump uses the word.
At the same time, many are disenchanted with the type of capitalism that is all for profits and nothing else.
This is the right time for our country to move toward what other Western countries have already done: make life better for citizens.
1
Word games.
Unfortunately the Democrats have fallen into this trap and Trump and the Republicans will play it for lots of fear mongering.
Socialism, communism and now Muslim are dog whistles to many people.
The Democrats will need to avoid the word but stay on message. I don't care if you precede it with "democratic", socialism cannot be part of the language of the Democratic party unless they want to lose another election.
What plays well to Representative Ocasio-cortez's base will not play well in Kansas.
Please don't let yourselves be branded with a term that is so toxic to much of the populace.
3
@CW
Maybe it is time to speak truth, and explain socialism, and democratic socialism.
I find it odd that Sanders, Ocasio-Cortez and some others describe themselves as democratic socialist, as the word socialist is generally interpreted as an extreme political/social form of highly controlled governance. Communist autocratic regimes and dictatorships have used the term in the past to mislabel themselves, with the resulting anti-democratic and anti-freedom policies and actions their government pursued being deeply resented by the US and other democracies. Our own activities during the infamous McCarthy era have stigmatized the description further, equating socialists with Marxists and communists.
And now Trump seems intent to paint the whole Democratic party with that label, a convenience because two of its elected members decided to describe themselves with the term. In addition Trump and the GOP will also try to convince their base and previous fence sitters that issues like the social safety-net, high taxes (not only for the rich) and tuition-free college, among others, are indeed socialist lures to lead us to an abhorrent socialist state. This is, of course, absurd, since, for example, we already have tuition free K-12 education- and nobody counts that as being socialistic, and high taxes on the rich existed in the past as well. Democrats need to fend off this attempt to besmear them with the now misrepresented socialist label by exposing Trump's and the GOP's deceitful and slanderous tactics.
3
It is up to the media to correctly portray socialism and stop allowing statements like "the loony left" go unchecked and unanswered. As fewer people seem to understand the nature of American democracy (based on our Constitution), I look toward the media for failing to do their job. Socialism has been made a dirty word in the American lexicon because the media allowed it. Nothing in our Constitution says that socialism defies or weakens in any manner our democracy and that capitalism was always the intended economic model. It is a perversion to derive that based on the Constitution, the framers of which would be appalled by the power which the wealthy wield currently.
Democratic socialism (the type Democrats support) relies on a strong central government run by democratically elected representatives who are looking out for the health of the society first and foremost. It is the society that the framers considered their highest priority believing that with a strong society comes satisfied individuals. That everyone possesses inalienable rights would guide the representatives in their governing.
It is beyond time the media stops playing into the narrative developed by the right wing - demonizing and fear-mongering about things that would probably make many lives better and a few lives a little less wealthy. If the majority wants a program ways can be found to support it which means taxing those the times has favored to benefit their fellow American. This is patriotic.
2
I didn't vote for Trump, but I certainly will if the alternative is veiled socialism.
3
@Nick F
What don't you like about democratic socialism?
Social security, medicare, public education, libraries, police and fire departments... how are they not a form of socialism?
Do you know what Democratic Socialism is?
Go ahead vote for Trump if he reflects your values and idea of what the US should be.
1
Socialism is the only reason I would consider NOT voting for a Democratic candidate for president (I won’t vote for Trump). I have been watching with increasing anger and disgust the campaign of lies, distortions and disinformation waged by people on the margins of the American left. They spread the ridiculous notion that social democracy equals socialism and thus the Nordic countries are an example of socialism succeeding. The Nordic countries are NOT socialist. Germany is NOT socialist. Socialism means the state’s ownership of the means of production - in other words, governmental control of the entire economy and enforcement of social engineering in the name of equality. Socialism of this kind has never succeeded in the history of the world. It killed more people than Nazism. Anybody who is calling for socialism in America is spitting in the graves of the victims of the gulag, including members of my family. If you want to talk about social democracy, I may listen. Talk about socialism - and you are my enemy.
1
People are too uninformed to even know what Socialism means.
If you did one of those "man on the street" interviews, perhaps on a college campus, most would answer that it has something to do with using social media, which they approve.
3
After many decades in New York as a "Socialite", I'm surprised he's against "Socialism".
I just don't understand the man.
2
The return of the Republican boogeyman. The reds are threatening the good old US of A. What a desperate attempt by the president. Words have meanings and calling Maduro a socialist is a clear sign of ignorance. Maduro is a dictator that only cares about lining his own pockets. And that folks is closer to what Trump is than a socialist. We have seen the results of American greed or american capitalism, where one apllies socialist policies for companies and not for the population. The highest incarceration rate in the western world. According to routledge handbook of poverty in the United States a third of the population is near or under the poverty level. While less than 1% control over 90% of the wealth. Is this how we are our brother's keeper? No wonder our society is divided, full of hatred, violence and it's fabric is falling apart.
40
@arm19
The NYT may lead you to believe that Maduro is a dictator, but he was elected, in a country with better voting apparatus than the US is willing to spend money on.
People can debate about the processes of Maduro's second term election, much the same way people can debate GWBush's or Trump's election.
With the US intent on regime change in Venezuela, ever since its attempted coup in 2002 against Chavez failed, it is a wonder the Maduro government is still standing.
The US has continually funded opposition groups in Venezuela, and tried any means it thought it could get away with to destabilize the government.
The US will do anything to see that socialism can't succeed, anywhere.
1
The problem is there is no agreement on what the word socialism means any more. Same re capitalism. Is Sweden socialist? It's got a market economy. Is China socialist, with its billionaires? Reagan thought Medicare was the beginning of socialism.
It use to mean collective ownership,usually by the state of the means of production. But Bernie said he supported small and medium sized businesses.
I suggest we retire the word, pro or con, and just describe the kind of economic system we want.
7
@Peter Wolf putting a label on the economic system is what is crippling its and this country's development
1
Socialism- bad for everyone else.
Socialism- as in corporate welfare socialism vis-a-vis a 1.5 trillion dollar corporate tax cut from 35 percent to 21 percent- good for Trump and Co. All compliments of his employer, our Federal Government.
Trump loves to distract the populace with this bald faced kind of disingenuous campaign dog-whistle type rhetoric. Call us the offenders while his tax rates are cut even lower, that is if he paid any taxes at all.
Trump is so desperately afraid of him and his billionaire brethren having to pay their real and true tax share obligations, this is how he and the GOP frame the conversation every darned time. And sadly, American lap it up like lemmings on a cliff, every single time.
5
The chances of Socialism in this nation are slim and none. I am concerned that Trump has now developed a new “chaos” description to threaten the unknowing and ignorant voters in the country to replace “the Wall” as a new scare tactic. Trump has no conscience about turning everything upside down to further his politics. This is another emphatic reason to get rid of this troublemaker.
5
Ah, the ole' "red scare" bit comes out of the closet again. It's been used in the American conservative political culture for 150 plus years. And in that culture it equates foreigners with anarchists. Mr. Trump, the smartest man in America, doesn't even know what he means. I bet he could not even cite one event in American history in which the "red scare" tactic was used to demonize any -ism out there, except for his own words. He just says the words on the prompt.
Ted Cruz used this tactic in Texas in his most recent run for his 2018 re-election. On camera with a reporter, he condemned his opponent as embracing socialist ideology. Then he went on to quote something from the Communist Manifesto. Ted, communism is not socialism. Socialism is not communism. "But the two words end with -ism, so they must be the same." As with Mr. Trump, he doesn't know what he is talking about. But if it scares people, let's use it. It's an American tradition. (By the way, Ted, your recent beard made you look like Lenin or Trotsky - they were communists.)
3
the Ds can start now with clearer statement about what they stand for. Most sane people know that college for everyone who wants to go will never be free and health care for all is a pipe dream. Then they can define what socialism really is.
3
@Sally McCart
This country spends almost third of its healthcare dollars on billing, administration and overhead costs.
There is plenty of money in the system for health care for all. All that is required is to reallocate where we spend that money.
Do you really believe that we cannot cover everyone when we're already paying more than twice as much per capita as any other nation, many of whom cover all their citizens?
3
Sally, why do you think free medical is possible in many European countries but is only a pipe dream in the US? The overall costs are substantially lower!
A point several economists have made is that we suffer economically from a shortage of trained workers. Putting more money into education — free college for instance — would grow the economy. Investopedia has a short article synopsizing these findings and available online: “How Training and Education Affect the Economy.” If we raised taxes to pay for free college education, the increase in GNP would pay for more and better public education—upper middle class parents, for instance, might not feel obliged to pay 30k to 50k each year to send their children to private schools. But the positive effects would be general and we’d all benefit economically. Trickledown theories haven’t ever worked, but the idea of raising taxes to grow the economy does.
Thanks for considering this.
“Tonight, we resolve that America will never be a socialist country.” No kidding. Trump wants to keep a corrupt economic system that exploits society as a whole for the tiny few like him amassing astronomical wealth and power. He doesn’t want socialism that would resemble Denmark but with a hugely diverse population all benefiting. Only the rich are entitled to everything they want in trump’s America and at the expense of America.
Maduro and his cronies are not socialists - they are corrupt kleptocrats indistinguishable from the illegitimate president we have and the Republican ilk pretending to be Republicans but are illegitimate too as they steal elections third world style accumulating wealth with their cronies.
Trump is running on the anti-social anti-American pro-Russian and pro-Saudi Arabia kleptocratic agenda - privatizing horrible socialism programs like Social Security, Medicare, etc. that Americans hate, right?
4
Wait, isn’t Putin (master of perhaps the most Socialist country left, China having abandonned much of it) Trump’s best buddy ?
Then again, no one expects any consistency or integrity out of this con man..,
2
@lm
Actually, they are not that socialist. Most of the means of production are owned or controlled by very rich individuals - oligarchs. Interestingly enough many of the older generation of Russians, miss the old Soviet Union. Even though it was repressive, they had a modicum of health services, educational opportunities and guaranteed pension. Most of that has been severely degraded with the collapse of the USSR.
5
Stoke nationalistic fear and hatred against "foreign" socialists/communists to gain political power/dominance, where have I heard that one before?
3
How did populists become heroes?
1
I'll take Socialism over fascism any day of the week.
5
I wish someone would ask Trump, during a broadcast, what socialism is.
4
The NYT takes Trump’s straw man and runs with it.
Nobody is advocating full blown socialism.
Many are advocating less brutal capitalism.
4
Amen!!
You know what you never see at a trump rally?
A 'Burn your Social Security, Medicare And Medicaid cards' kiosk so those Anti-socialist trumpets can rid themselves of the horror that is socialism.
Hypocrites all!
4
The master of rhetoric and creating villains where there are none.
It would seem that the vision of the founding fathers struck a balance between capitalism and socialism. The desire to prosper and be comfortable, but the recognition that we are a community of humans who don't all have the same abilities and means. Jefferson's focus on a quality public education for ALL supported the concept of a 'greater good' ...give all people a start and help them to meet their potential.
Capitalism without the balance creates the huge gap we see today - public schools are woefully under-funded, teachers underpaid. It's the vicious cycle of: hard to get a good start without a good start.
If capitalism is the machine, socialism can be the heart...and they can work well in balance.
4
Doesn't government-provided family leave qualify as socialism? I'm not against it, but I am against people railing against socialism and proposing more of it in the same speech.
2
Capitalism has not worked all that well for most Americans. The reason can be traced back to when business schools started teaching that the sole responsibility of a company was to maximize the stockholder's return on investment.
5
Socialism: A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
I am not sure is this is what the new justice democrats are advocating but the implementations of socialism as defined above has invariable led to misery, Venezuelan being the last example.
Probably social democracy would be a more fitting term for what the more leftist democrats are proposing but it does make you wonder if their 'socialist' self-labeling is the product of ignorance or conviction.
5
As our U.S. History and its public programs show. A mixture of Socialist & Capitalist elements is our USA! Our military, safety and law enforcement workers are not from private organizations like mercenary groups that perform for profits. Are SS and Medicare programs are not for profit entities. Education is both public and private funded and directed.
Maybe the words capitalism and socialism themselves are a problem. The former being something promoted as having inherent value or at the very least benign within the public’s discourse. The other a condition of worthlessness and more typical.
Feudalism may be a more artful term for capitalism. Having that common folklore appeal of Hollywood movies, broadway plays and operates. Sagas of finding individual peace in the face of villainous acts by others.
I guess overall our stories today havent changed much. Just the costumes and stage designs. Context is everything!
3
When the government provides us with police, fire departments, schools, roads, snow removal, libraries, traffic lights and the like is that socialism? It is not. If the government expanded what it provides to universal health care, in this day and age it too would not be socialism. Ignore labeling.
5
The Democrats need to do some serious education of the public about the dangers of companies and corporations owning our government, as they now do through campaign donations. Imagine living in a country where the NRA, drug companies, tobacco interests, oil companies, telecommunication conglomerates, chemical companies, etc etc had NO influence over our government, elections, and appointments! The real evils are right in front of us...
1
I would bet that Trump's warning about "creeping socialism" is mostly addressed to my generation. The ones who are on Social Security & Medicare.
2
Popular opinion is moving left, particularly so for younger Americans. I doubt it is rejection of capitalism, i.e. the simple act of trading something I have for something you have, and maybe some money.
What they recognize and reject is indentured servitude. For far too many people servitude is a looming reality. Debt to pay for education, an accident, or an employer's decision to pack up and move to some “lower cost” country can tip them into a hole that they can't escape. It's a lottery they think they shouldn’t have to play.
Trump and his Republican enablers represent an economic aristocracy that lives off the labor of this indentured workforce, and everybody else who’s wages are held down. The fearmongering about “socialism” is a defense strategy we'll see more of in this, very likely a significant, retreat of the aristocrats from their gains over the past 40 years.
1
Socialism was an effort to correct the brutal and merciless inequities that result when a few control and retain nearly all of the wealth created by the efforts of humans. Owners of awesomely productive and profitable industrial enterprises were able to avoid sharing the returns from the productivity of people actually making the goods and providing the services that produced all the new wealth by control over the capital that allowed these operations to proceed. The impact upon society was becoming so destructive that the revolutions of 1848 nearly brought down every industrialized bounty in Europe.
The capitalism practiced was nothing more than wealthy people behaving like warlords in the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome. They had the means to take what they weaned so they did. Socialism was the response.
Socialism was a much varied set of ideas that addressed the inequities produced by neither whole countries nor the people who worked to produce new wealth could overcome. It varied from just assuring that nobody suffered from want to command economies with the state as the owner. The products of socialism extend from forty hour work weeks and safety in workplaces and wholesomeness of food and drugs marketed to Communist states where individuals were all expendable.
The liars who would restore the feudal ways of early capitalists would represent all socialistic measures as the horrors of Stalinist U.S.S.R. Trump would frighten all with that image.
1
Excellent points. It was amongst the extreme inequality created by capitalists in this era that Karl Marx wrote the scathing indictment Das Kapital. What comes around goes around. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
1
Very interesting that Trump touted his parental leave plan to bipartisan applause and then turned right around and denounced socialism.
Seems he doesn't actually know what the word means?
2
My grandfather and grandmother emigrated from Norway, one of the countries Trump has said have the right kind to get immigrants. Interestingly, Don, they were Socialists, and firm believers in women's education and employment. They sent my mother to law school before WWII. The right sort of immigrants indeed.
People who have been to Norway, Sweden, and Denmark as I have know that in those countries socialism works just fine. Contrary to Republican propaganda, the problem in countries like Venezuela, Brazil, and many of the African countries is not socialism. It is corrupt government that calls itself socialist. A closer look will quickly reveal countries with high rates of corruption and crony capitalism functioning under a phony banner of socialism. Socialism is not nearly as scary as right wing propaganda.
4
If this is Trump's "effective weapon," he will be helped by "just saying" articles like this, that focus only on Trump's prospects for 2020 and not at all on what "socialism" means.
We are a socialistic country-not purely but socialistis yes!
Unfortunately, the one word sound bite drowns out reasonable discussion. If the new "socialistic" measures are to take place, the country needs to be educated. The great minds of marketing can certainly come up with a series of ads directed not to only inform but to entertain. If they can do it for a boring Superless Bowl, they certainly can do it for a worthy cause.
In a nod to Senator Ernst, an ad in farm country with a talking pig saying "The Republicans are against socialism. Where would I be without socialist farm aid?" An ad along the southern coasts with a talking house saying "The Republicans are against socialism. Where would I be without socialist flood insurance?"
The examples are endless. Arguing the definition of socialism is boring. Fighting the one word fear-mongering needs something informative and entertaining. The anti-socialists need to be on the defensive and defend the programs that we now have that benefit millions of people.
2
I think it's time for President Trump to upgrade his Political Science courses and Economic Theory to just a few years beyond Karl Marx.
Socialists have had a Darwinian evolution even in Sweden.
Please recommend he see his counselor as quickly as possible.
2
This President, and the republicans encouraging him to start throwing around the "socialism" threat, don't know what socialism is. They also don't know what capitalism is either, because it is not what we practice in the US. Freedom to succeed is part of the capitalist ideal, but the definition of success is not part of it. The assumption that only when a few get very rich from their entrepreneurial ideas and drive can we all be free. Winners and losers are part of it, and the herd must be culled to advance the society.
Like everything else, it is not a zero-sum game, and most of those howling about socialism (including Mr. Handout Trump with tax abatements and bankruptcy) have benefited from the social goods and services that take the best of socialism to fix the worst of capitalism.
3
Please, socialism is NOT a code for "looney left," but just common sense. Those who support Trump seem to think it is okay to denigrate women, support white nationalism and make sure those who are non white know their place, try conversion therapy on gays, keep wages down so people will continue to be poor and struggle paycheck to paycheck and deny people access to health care that works. Oh, and let's not forget that Trump followers also could care less about the environment, don't care if water and air are polluted as long as the wealthy capitalists who own the companies that pollute keep getting richer. Nor, do these people seem to comprehend that more jobs are part time in this country and offer low wages and no benefits, for part time workers are easy to dump and full time workers cost more, which means, once again, that the wealthy corporate owners of the companies would make less. To a Trump supporter, the rich need to get richer. After all, they will trickle that wealth down to the poor, and if you believe that I have land on the moon you can buy;-)
2
When this president (I can barely call him that) accuses Democrats of "presidential harassment", complaining that Republicans did not do this to President Obama when he was in office, Donald Trump forgets the fact that President Obama was in the White House for eight years with NO scandals and no real controversy . In fact the only controversy that existed was created by Donald Trump himself when he was doubting Barack Obama's citizenship. We discovered what a lie and a ruse that was just as we have discovered that almost every single thing that comes out of Donald Trump's mouth is a lie .
If Barack Obama had done half the things that Donald Trump has done in these past two years ,Obama would already have been in the middle of impeachment proceedings.
The truth is that we now have a fraud in the Oval Office in the person of Donald Trump , and we need as soon as possible , to rid ourselves of this malignancy which is his presidency.
If we don't do something about this, we will never forgive ourselves.
2
Socialism is just a word the right uses to get people to endure more suffering.
3
Oh I dunno. Seems to me that prosecuting the Donald for financial crimes, then expropriating the Clan's property, selling it, returning what he owes in tax fraud, then distribute the rest to his victimized creditors?
Why not! Capitalist, socialist, call justice what you will.
2
45 not being a student of history would not know Socialism is a thread in the American tapestry. Early in the 20th century Eugene Debs ran for POTUS on the Socialist Party ticket. Governor La Follette served as Wisconsin's Socialist governor. Positive contributions to American society made by Socialists include the 40 hour work week, Labor Unions, Public Education (getting children out of the mines and factories), Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, Veteran Medical Care, and the ACA (as originally instituted). For 45 to ridicule Socialism displays both his woeful ignorance of American history and his callous hatred of all people he does not call his own.
1
The issue is not whether we live in a socialist country. We do. Our roads, public schools, military, entitlement programs, aid programs, and so on, are all products of the public paying into the common, social good. We can quibble over to what degree of socialism we practice in the US, but that's a policy discussion that we can save for another time.
The issue posed by this story is the use of language and fear to motivate an ignorant electorate to vote for a particular party, and secondarily, how best to combat that approach. Trump was successful in garnering votes by calling Mexicans "rapists" and warning that they were coming to hurt US citizens. Now he seeks votes through calling his political enemies "socialists." It might just work well for him and the "new" Republican party.
The question for the Democrats is how to fight it. They better get a better approach than they did in 2016 because that approach did not work.
3
This anti-socialism argument will certainly be compelling. To the red-faced white hairs who were going to vote for Trump anyway, that is...
Put in the perspective of the rest of the world, America has a very long way to travel before they get anywhere near being considered to be “left”. “Left” and “Right” politically are relative terms. Compared to most Republicans, yes, Democrats are on the “left” but would still be quite eligible to be members of the British or Canadian Conservative parties. This is where having some knowledge of world affairs comes in handy but one is not going to get it by a steady diet of Fox “news”. Equating Bernie Sanders with Lenin, Stalin or Mao demonstrates a profound depth of ignorance but there are some who will buy into this because Trump says it is true. Such is the price of neglecting education.
49
@D. Knight Keep in mind that this is the image painted by pundits and politicians. The majority of Americans support these ideas that are considered common sense in other countries. So education is one issue but the nature of our political system (2-party system, the Electoral College, Partisan and Racial gerrymandering and voter suppression) is as much to blame.
7
@D. Knight
Private corporations seem to be a permanent fixture in the US, so why work towards socialism?
In the short term we can’t eliminate private corporations, but we can bring them under greater democratic control. The government could use regulations and tax incentives to encourage companies to act in the public interest and outlaw destructive activities such as exporting jobs to low-wage countries and polluting our environment. Public pressure can also have a critical role to play in the struggle to hold corporations accountable. Most of all, socialists look to unions to make private business more accountable.We don’t agree with the capitalist assumption that starvation or greed are the only reasons people work. People enjoy their work if it is meaningful and enhances their lives. They work out of a sense of responsibility to their community and society. Although a long-term goal of socialism is to eliminate all but the most enjoyable kinds of labor, we recognize that unappealing jobs will long remain. These tasks would be spread among as many people as possible rather than distributed on the basis of class, race, ethnicity, or gender, as they are under capitalism. And this undesirable work should be among the best, not the least, rewarded work within the economy. For now, the burden should be placed on the employer to make work desirable by raising wages, offering benefits and improving the work environment.
3
@D. Knight I completely agree and would add two comments. First, this is about framing the debate. The term 'socialism' is so ill-defined in US political discourse that it covers any ideas that are put forth to make life under what the French have called "capitalism savage" in the US more tolerable. So we have to be careful not to miss an opportunity to frame conversations about healthcare, living wage, or retirement in relative material security and dignity positively. Second, I agree with your comment about education. That said, current pressure on the school curriculum is on very technical content (reading, writing, basic math, STEM). There is nothing wrong with this as long as it does not drown out learning about the world across the curriculum. Global education is woefully neglected in our schools. That has to change. Our students have to learn about the world through global issues both in the sciences and in the humanities. They also have to travel and host students from other countries to open up their minds beyond the drumbeat of American superiority.
2
45, the Republicans and their voting live stock have not the faintest idea what the term Socialism means. By tjeir definition I live in a socialist country, Germany. Every single one of AOC's propositions is a reality here. She'd be a run of the mill conservative or right wing Social Democrat here. And yet Germany is a successful capitalist country.
50
@Ralph Möllers
No.
You live in a Capitalist country, with high taxes.
That is not Socialism.
1
@Ralph Möllers I completely agree. I am German as well and have lived in the US for almost 30 years. I can assure everyone that countries like Germany are not socialist but have found a way to make capitalism a little less brutal. Historically, unions have played a huge role in this process. And I would agree that most "moderate Democrats" would be in the conservative party in Germany (CDU).
5
@JQGALT Well, yes, Germany is a capitalist country infused with some safeguards to prevent the excesses we see here in the US and have historically seen in Dickensonian conditions. I will also say that income taxes may be a bit higher in Germany than here, but once you add all the additional taxes or fees we have to pay here in the US, taxation in Germany is actually quite a bit lower: College is free (financed through income taxes for the most part), and schools are not financed through property taxes. By the time you add what we pay for all this, we pay a lot more than my German peers. How do I know? I have lived and paid taxes in both systems. Also, young people with college degrees do not carry debt in Germany. So the simplistic statement that I hear so often, i.e. Germans pay so much more in taxes, simply is not true.
6
"It Didn't Happen Here: Why Socialism Failed in the United States'" by Seymour Matin Lipset and Gary Marks (WW Norton, 2000) is the book to consult to confront Trump's latest Bolshoi. The Trumpet isn't informed. He'l just casting around for his next blasted infuriation.
4
Loony Left, meet Crazy Right? Perhaps somewhere in this greater discussion some clarity will emerge, particularly if our politicians and commentators hew to established definitions and exhibit recognition that economic systems, e.g. socialism or market capitalism, also exist in the context of political systems, e.g. representative democracy or oligarchy. Overlaying all of that is the question of society's ethos, its morality, stability, and ability to be efficient. Why does the President cite Venezuela or Cuba (welfare states that are authoritarian and poorly run) as an example of socialism, but not Denmark (a welfare state that is democratic and well run)?
I would like Republicans to recognize that the U.S. has not had anything approaching a pure system of market capitalism for well over 100 years. I would like them to recognize that even Adam Smith believed that market capitalism had its faults, one of them being the tendency of business concerns to aggregate power and become monopolistic or oligarchic to the detriment of the parties in the supply chain, the workers, and the consumer. (And, since Citizens United, corporate citizens can fully use their political power.) Finally, we know that left to its own devices, the financial industry can and does get us into recessions and depressions by its heedless greed. The cure for this is not more market freedom but governmental controls.
Do either the Republicans or the Democrats want to abolish the Uniform Commercial Code?
5
As a Canadian I can see your country has many forms of socialism already.
The 40-hour work week is a product of socialism.
Medicare and Medicade are forms of socialism.
The president in his address mentioned pushing for new mothers be given the ability to say home after birth with pay. This is socialism.
Your food stamp program is a a form of socialism.
Social security is socialism.
Other benefits for the elderly and disabled are forms of socialism.
Socialism means for the good of society. Don't fight what you already have. Expand it. Embrace and expand on it.
9
There's an excellent reason why European parties of the left identify as Social Democrats rather than Democratic Socialists. First, the designation puts the emphasis where it belongs on the Democrat and keeps Social as an important but subordinate modifier. The problem with Socialism is the history of the 20th Century in which liberal democratic politics was assaulted by totalitarians from the left and the right. Calling yourself a Socialist tars you with a soviet brush whether it's accurate or not. Lose the "ism" as the key word and Democrats can own their progressive creds free of that kind of phony argument. Moreover it keeps the air clearer for the arguments to come over policy which is where the game should be played.
5
Corruption is the chief threat to any nation, not "socialism."
There is no one socialism. Catholics are socialist when they
make a "preferential option for the poor." The countries with
the highest standards of living in the world are social democratic countries. FDR's policies to sustain the lives and work of Americans during grave financial and national security challenges were socialistic. We have a mixed capitalist and socialist system. The more we bend toward capitalism the greater our inequality rises and the more we
bend toward socialism the greater our systems of medical care, education, and our quality of lives improve. The trick is in finding the right balance.
The military services are a socialist institution that provides cradle to grave support for members and veterans and their families.
The bugaboo in politics is the communist systems, which made war on socialists. The biggest ignorance about socialism is what you call it: a "democratic socialist" is
a communist. Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are not democratic socialists; they are social democrats and support a Scandinavian type of mixed governmental system--which is the most enlightened form in the world and the most corruption free.
4
My question to Republicans is , can you point to one successful health care system in the history of the world based on a "free enterprise" model? I believe it would be easier finding a unicorn.
9
The runner up to the Democrat nomination in 2016 is a “democratic socialist”.
The Times ran a column today to “Abolish Billionaires” via coerced redistribution.
Prominent Democrats have called for a marginal tax rate of 70%, higher than *any* nation on planet Earth.
And, yes, Venezuela is a socialist economy.
I don’t exactly think Trump is out of line in attacking Democrats’ embrace of socialism or the great harm it could do to our global competitiveness.
Like I’ve said before, how about we try a “Canada” taxation system before we dive headfirst into a full blown “Venezuela”. Why are Democrats advocating such radical change?
And by the way, criticizing policy ideas is not an “ad hominem” (apparently Ms. Octasio-Cortez doesn’t know what that means).
6
@Mmm
Trump sent his "socialist" barb directly at AOC and Bernie Sanders. To him, is no different than the demeaning nicknames he paints onto opponents.
So, yes, Ms. Ocasia-Cortez knows exactly what an ad hominem remark is.
2
There are so many failed examples of socialism it begs the question as to why we would ever go through this experiment. 70% tax rate above 10 million is insanity. If you want incrementally higher taxes on the ultra-wealthy to pay for better healthcare, then OK. But then the young millennials HAVE to get health insurance, pay premiums in order to pay for the sick and elderly. Universal healthcare does not mean free. If you are employed, you will have to pay a lot to support the system, way more than $700 tax penalty Obamacare has. I'm talking thousands, average European pays 5k+ into their systems.
3
The GOP paints all government programs as socialism. Medicaid? Socialism. Social Security? Socialism. Child labor laws? Socialism. Affordable Health Care? Socialism. Roads, powerlines, and the TVA? Socialism. FEMA, National Parks, FBI, benefits for Vets? Socialism. They only thing they're willing to pay for is the military.
Having a safe society with roads, cops, healthcare, retirement, etc requires money. That money comes from taxes. It is the price of living in a country that is safe, paved, and predictable enough to have a market in the first place. The GOP should follow their own slogans: America, love it (by paying for your citizenship with taxes) or leave it.
5
LOL - The problem was never socialism vs. communism. The problems were mutual aggression and rivalry with the governing differences of brutal autocracy/generally less brutal democracy along with less transparency/more transparency.
1
Trump is setting things up to pull yet another fast one on US voters by trying to scare people into thinking that the Democratic Party is leading the US to fate of Venezuela-like socialism. Trump has a dismal understanding of economics and so doesn't grasp that the US, like all western economies, is a mixed economy. True, the US economy is largely capitalist, but incorporates at its heart many principles and programmes that could be categorised as socialist, such as Medicare. These programmes are popular, not least because they are a clear manifestation of a community taking care of those less fortunate or unable to help themselves. Trumps demonising of what he thinks is socialism marks him out yet further as would-be dictator; someone who thinks he's above the law and who should have unchecked power. That's what US voters should be afraid of.
Government is only as good as the people it governs or serves. If we are to get the best government possible, it is our responsibility to be active participants in our government. This involvement includes the most important, voting along with fact checking what politicians say. Socialism is no more of a villain than Capitalism is. Is Social Security a villain, Medicare a burden. Is the Veterans Administration & services a villain to those it serves along with other government programs. How can you call the healthcare system in Canada & Europe a villain? Voters should investigate how socialism works. The same with all the other things politicians say. If we would start electing our congressmen & congresswomen & senators & especially our local officials on whom they are, what they say, find out more about them rather than if they are of one political party or another, we might get the government we want & deserve as we are getting the government we deserve now with Trump because of our negligence of not vetting our candidates.
Socialism? So what?
I already pay upwards of 42% of my annual gains in taxes (that would be the total, not my top bracket) and that doesn’t include what we pay for healthcare.
But instead of universal healthcare and education for my fellow citizens, what do I get? A bloated military budget? Instead of public transit and libraries, I make up for the difference of the Trump family lying about real estate values to cheat the country out of $500,000,000 of inheritance taxes, and for Mark Zuckerberg and Warren Buffett to pay only 18% on their long-term capital gains. Instead of dignity for our elderly and a helping hand for the poorest among us, I foot the bill for corporations to distribute more wealth to shareholders while their lowest-paid employees subsist on food stamps.
Socialism? Sign me up. Because I’m paying just as much anyway right now, and all I see is human misery contrasted with Donald Trump’s golden toilet.
6
Perfect!
We can't trust or believe anything Trump says. Why should we believe his skewed characterization of demoratic socialism?
2
Americans traditionally help neighbors in need. Socialism is not the answer - a free market economy is. Those who want to live in a socialist country should feel free to emigrate to Venezuela, Sweden or wherever. Please leave. In the past, Democrats have had good ideas and did not work to destroy our country. No longer! Political correctness and insanity reigns. My biggest beef with the "new" Democratic Party is that they will force me to vote for Trump in 2020, an individual I don't much care for. Can't we bring Obama back?
4
No one likes socialism, but farmers like their Farm Bill, older people like their Social Security and Medicare, the unemployed like unemployment insurance. In short we all like what helps us. Is that socialism? I strongly suspect it is and we ought to own up to the truth of the matter.
1
Don't let Trump confuse you. Medicare, Medicaid, social security, the VA system and public schools are all programs that Trump defines as socialism. He would like you to think that Medicare for all or debt relief for college students will lead us to the evils of Socialist Communist China and the old USSR. I think not!
This is his “evil-genius”,
on message with his
supporters. The word “evokes”
their fears and hatreds that
cut across many socio-economic
groups. Do you think that these
people could define socialism?
1
They define it as “I got mine. I can afford the best docs and costly treatments when I get sick as well as the finest private schools for my kids. Why should I care about you?”
We are - and always will be - a republic that combines socialism and capitalism. Neither ideology can exist alone. We have Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Roads, bridges, air travel (FAA), etc....ALL funded by taxpayers. Hopefully the media will start educating people about what our republic realy is rather then report the political hype.
1
@glenn
Hopefully, but this article isn't a good start.
Sit down now. I have something shocking to tell you. The USA is socialist. Our Founding Fathers were a bunch of radicals. You know, that part of the preamble that says "promote the general welfare". They did all sorts of bad things, like create public universities and public libraries. You know, places where you go to get liberal arts educations, and books.
I hope you are still sitting down because I have something even more shocking to tell you. The USA is capitalist. And not just a little bit, but a lot. As a matter of fact, we globalised capitalism expressly to prevent communism and socialism. Is globalisation making you happy right now? Will it make you happy when there are no such things as public universities, public libraries, public schools, public parks, and maybe a few other things that make your future more secure like social security and medicare? I only ask because that is the plan. Those crazy capitalists. they want to privatize everything and make lots and lots of money off of stuff that we all pay a little for through taxes but get a lot from in the long run. But it's okay, because we will all have lots and lots of money to pay for that kind of stuff being capitalists. So we will keep those bad bad socialists out of office just in case they set some stupid expectation that you might buy into, like maybe government should actually do some thing to help people or protect the environment. Gasp. Shocking, I know.
Do people really want to be taxed at 70%?!?! Please don't lie to yourselves and act like the rich won't still get tax breaks because that's how it goes. With Trump in office, I pay less taxes than I did when Obama was in office. Don't let yourself be shamed into feeling like people are entitled to anything through your hard work and money that you earn.
1
Please learn how a progressive tax works. You will not pay 70%; not even close.
My family and I live in Canada where, over a period of 40 years we have received unparalleled medical and health care, including for seniors now that we are getting older, and for our parents who are no more.’
Our farmers work through many cooperatives with regulated pricing and marketing mechanisms.
Our labor unions work fairly well and are civil.
We have our warriors for the rights of our First Nations, for refugees legal or illegal, for the environment, and against racism and gun violence.
Yes, to many Canada often appears as a Socialist country. But we don’t have gulags, or the KGB, or a leader with unbridled power.
It may be that, for his re-election Donald Trump will raise the bogey of Socialism seeping across America’s northern border, not to mention the oft-repeated lie that some of the 9/11 terrorists came from Canada.
What will it be then? Trenches, pill boxes with machine guns, or just another Wall?
Please clearly define the words "socialist" and "socialism." Please also clearly define "populist" and "populism." If the Times or WAPO can't do it and drive those words carefully and accurately, the garble of Us v trump will become unbearable. For idenification purposes, I am a commie, pinko, leftie. So far.
1
I agree with Jim. Please, NYT, call this fear-mongering out! Socialism is public ownership of the means of production. I don’t see calls for a government takeover of Amazon, McDonald’s, WalMart. No one has proposed that. No one. Not even close. People need to be set straight.
The accusation that those American politicians of the Democrat persuasion who describe themselves as socialists are promoters of "Socialism" is a canard and a lie.
Those who do this as our Dear Leader is does is willfullly manipulating the fears and ignorance of what Socialism is as opposed to what American politicians who identify (wrongly so in my opinion) as "socialists" really are.
Socialism by definition is the economic system of allocation of goods and services by government decree as opposed Capitalism which is the allocation of goods and services using market demand and supply with profit as the incentive and allocating mechanism.
Both economic models may work for a while in their pure state but both will inevitably fail. Socialism usually leads to complete concentration of power in govt. through dictatorship. Capitalism unfetterred by regulation usually leads to over concentration of wealth among the few at the expense of the many through their wealth based power.
America is clearly a Capitalist country. So are many countries described as socialist such as most if not all in Europe, especially Scandinavia.
Capitalist countries, including America have learned the hard way that "social" policy is necessary to keep their economic models working for the good of the people rather than imploding from the inequities created by the sheer success of the profit incentive in over concentrating wealth and power.
These Democrats are social capitalists.
1
A brilliantly distracting move. By 2020 US foreign relations will be in a shambles triggering international economic declines as one of many consequences. His pivot to the bogey 'socialism' will give him a distracting, new, domestic threat for fear mongering. AND it can be tied to what he will label as growing Komminst threats from China and Russia and even North Korea.
The real choice is not between socialism and capitalism. The choice is between 30 to 1 capitalism and today's 250 to 1 capitalism (difference between top and bottom earners). America's greatest years, during the 1950's and 1960's were under 30 to 1 capitalism. Indeed Japan operated under 10 to 1 capitalism for many years. The Trump Administration's would not have us return to America's good ole days. They would rather confuse socialism with communism rather than see the upper 1% face higher upper end tax rates, and increase the minimum wage to $15 an hour. This is all part of Republican con-artistry, taking advantage of uninformed minds.
1
Donald Trump is the very best case in point that authoritarianism - with his demands to limit free speech, constrain political institutions/checks and balances while expanding executive powers, propagate paranoia about outside evils with the autocrat cast as the sole savior - can take over any political party, including the party formerly known as the Republican Party.
2
Social security is socialism. Most like it. The problem occurs when dictators take over any system. Donnie wants to be a dictator and the Republicans are his enabler in this quest.
2
I spewed my coffee when donnie said "this nation will NEVER become a socialist nation" and with his next breath he proposed paid maternity leave. The president is a simple man, with animal cunning for survival.
1
So socialism is the problem. Not the billionaires who pay no taxes and run Trump's version of government. Yes indeed lets get rid of Medicare. social security, etc. and Let the Big companies run everything. Instead of Reagan's I'm here from the government and here to help you, how about I'm from the top 1% and here to help you. Your kids dont need school, health care or infrastructure.
1
As a frequent reader of the NYT comments section, I can say that the support for Socialism here is way, way higher than 51%. Probably close to 95%.
We need to get past the Socialism vs. Capitalism debate and discuss how to limit the destruction of jobs by Wall Street. You can be pro-smaller scale capitalism and win support from people of both parties. Taking money from the wealthy and giving it to the government is not going to solve poverty or any other problem and never has.
@Paul
So why tax the wealthy at all, by your logic? Money solves "problems" like roads and schools.
Democratic socialism... I am eagerly waiting for Senator Bernie Sanders to announce as a candidate for President.
Of course, Trump will deride Sanders as an evil Socialist.
So will Hillary-type Democrats. And they may be even more
snide and derisive then they and Establishment media were in 2016.
There will be a war for the soul of the Democratic Party, maybe unfortunate, but very necessary.
You can’t help some ignorance, which is something Trump preys on. I read, on that depressing window into the minds of my fellow Americans called Twitter, someone ranting about how “socialists” want to take away his Social Security and Medicare and give it “illegals.” This assertion is so bizarre and contradictory on so many levels, where do you even begin? It reminds me of the poll where respondents stated they like ACA but hated Obamacare. That’s really the kind of irrational fear Trump wants to capitalize on.
But hopefully, enough sane Americans remain where they will listen and pay attention to actual reality of social safety nets. If Democrats can get past silly labels and just talk real policy, there might still be thinking people willing to listen.
1
Republicans are all in for socialized police departments, fire departments, sidewalks, roads, etc. They are against socialized schools, and health care. Just like their abortion position, they want to be the ones who make the choices for everybody else.
True socialism is where the government owns all means of production; nobody on the left is suggesting that the US Government take over GE, Dell or Apple.
Over the course of many years and various calamities, the US Congress has agreed that there are some things so important that they can be left to be run by for profit private enterprise, things like:
- Defense
- Courts
- Police
- Environmental protection
- Fire Brigade
- Coast Guard
- Air Traffic Control
- Education (public schools) Now under attack by the right
- Social Security (a mandatory savings plan that was introduced after the great depression)
Missing from the list is healthcare but it should be there.
Trump's rant against socialism is just plain stupid, he has no clue what he's doing.
@Ted Morton
Should have read...
so important that they can't be left to be run by for profit private enterprise
Sorry
Look at what socialism lite has brought to NY. The latest taxes on New Yorks super rich recently.. many packed up and moved else where.. leaving behind the $3 billion hole in the budget Governor Cuomo spoke of a few days ago.
That is just the tip of the ice berg of the inevitable Venezuelan out come.
1
Interesting to dismiss the idea of socialism taking over the Democratic party when recent polls show that it is the exact direction it is going towards. Not only polls demonstrate this trend. Bernie Sanders, a self-proclaimed Socialist might have won the 2016 nomination if Hillary hadn’t rigged the primaries. The latest rising star, Andrea Ocasio-Cortez, follows in Bernie’s footsteps. Far-fetched? Indeed.
2
A lot of the problem is not "painting socialists as villains" but "painting progressive liberals and social democrats as socialist."
The traditional scholarly view if socialism had been a political economic system marked by essentially state or worker control of production and markets. For example,social security is not socialist. It's an example mixed economy free market capitalism uncontroversial to pro-capitalist going back to Paul Samualson and FDR and Keynes and progressive Teddy Roosevelt (at least in his Bull Moose phase.) The problem is one of the a Democratic conceptual sloppiness similar to that of recent Democratic conflation of "public option" and "single payer system" with "social security for all," and foolishly unwitting branding.
True, some of the few self-proclaimed Democratic "socialists" are members or explicit fans of the Democratic Socialists of America, which sustains seldom emphasized adherence to the goal of eventual "socialization of the means of production," but these Democrats are few and theoretically casual pragmatist with little in mind that would have offended Tony Blair or, so far as domestic policy is concerned, Teddy Roosevelt .
1
Go left - young men and woman - go left and don't look back - a NEW DEAL - is necessary.
3
If Trump vilifies something, I am ready to embrace that.
Négation of a negation. Works.
2
I am not a socialist but I can understand why it might be appealing to working class Americans. After all, they have seen how well it has worked for the rich. In 2008, it was the government that bailed out the banks, big corporations, etc. when capitalism failed. And that failure has continued since we continue to pile up debt and provide "free" money to these "Captains of Industry." If government handouts work so well for the rich, why shouldn't they work for the rest of us, or so the logic goes?
Trump's assertion that the U.S. has "defeated communism" is a claim oft repeated by many Republicans and it almost always goes unchallenged and unchecked. As long as communism exists and dominates in such countries as China, North Korea, Vietnam and Cuba the claim that communism has been "defeated" is beyond false, it is ridiculous.
3
"NO DICTATORSHIP, SOCIAL DEMOCRACY!"
That would be a perfect 2020 slogan.
The GOP is constantly limiting people's voting rights, and Trump constantly tries to ignore the separation of the three branches of government that is the core element of any democracy. At the same time, he can't stop praising dictators .. for being dictators.
And as others have pointed out already, the GOP's "savage capitalism" is installing a de facto oligarchy of the biggest multinationals and their CEOs, to the detriment of real free enterprise and to the detriment of the American people as a whole.
How to achieve this within a constitutional democracy?
By massively investing in 24/7 fake news.
And that fake news includes trying to make people confound economics and politics.
Not only were/are Russia and Venezuela and China developing economies, contrary to Western, fully developed economies such as the US economy. They are first of all dictatorships, with no independence of the Judicial or Legislative branch of government, and as a consequence, huge corruption. And yes, they also happen to try to sell that corruption to their own people by calling themselves "socialists".
The bottom line here is clearly that ALL lawmakers who are corrupt need fake news to cling to power - both Maduro and Trump.
Social democrats, on the contrary, aren't afraid of the truth at all. Rejecting savage capitalism, social capitalists turned Scandinavian countries into the most thriving democracies on earth...
Here's a great opportunity for Democrats to sharpen their messaging. The proper response must be speedy to be effective: paint Trump as the would-be fascist dictator and tin-pot oligarch he is, complete with footnotes to facts. Underscore how he violates true American values. Then do what he does: repeat and amplify. Get ahead of him. I guarantee he will enter the fact-free zone light years before Democrats do. In fact, he is already there, isn't he?
"Tuesday night’s speech contained more than a few suggestions of what Mr. Trump’s 2020 campaign could look like."
If Donald Trump is still available to run in 2020 then our great experiment in democracy has totally failed.
2
It is too bad that generalizations with misapplied connotations can work as well as they do in the political debate. Socialism, as an economic system, like capitalism, is often portrayed as absolute in its application, antagonistic to capitalism and almost always linked to communism as a form of government. Often to communist governments lead by repressive, one party, dictatorships. Happily, in the US, socialistic applications live in harmony with capitalism in a very functional democracy. Examples of which are infrastructure spending, publicly funded education, public services like police and fire departments, and so forth. The CONSTRUCTIVE debate is, has been and should be around what can be effectively and appropriately funded by either the private sector or government. The misapplied labels and negative generalizations used to demonize political opponents don't serve the public in any meaningful way.
We need a constitutional amendment to remove the phrase “promote the general Welfare” from the preamble. That sounds like Socialism, and that’s bad. Let’s replace it with something like “preserve the wealth of the wealthy”. That’s a lot closer to what our government is all about these days.
3
Democratic socialism is the term everyone with any consideration for their fellow Americans must use during this discussion. Never separate these terms or you let others conflate authoritarian socialism with what we and most Americans are talking about and approving - democratic socialism as practiced in many democratically governed nations, esp. in Europe.
We can also challenge those who oppose democratic socialism to show the world and Americans what democratic capitalism would look like. For instance Senators Baldwin & Warren's bills to require a percentage of boards of large public companies to be elected by workers. Opposition to such democratic capitalism challenges the idea that capitalism is compatible with a constitutional democracy such as that of the United States.
I would love to see our elected representatives from local mayors to the President of the U.S. reason through the question of compatibility of capitalism and democracy. What do you think?
So the NYT felt compelled to present a socialism-bashing platform for conservatives and "Trump critics"? (somehow merely criticizing anything Trump has done bestows credibility upon Republicans to attack progressives).
They love indulging in pure speculation that's easily debunked with a single sentence: "Yet there is NO EVIDENCE of any growing public angst about socialism sweeping the United States."
Takeaway: it's won't be a potent line of attack if the media does it's job and doesn't substitute fear-mongering speculation for actual facts and evidence. The policies Republicans decry as "socialist" have broad public support. Focus on that aspect for a change.
2
Thinking about democratic socialism, I'll offer this rant by Republican Tucker Carlson. " Republican leaders will have to acknowledge that market capitalism is not a religion. Market capitalism is a tool, like a staple gun or a toaster. You’d have to be a fool to worship it. Our system was created by human beings for the benefit of human beings. We do not exist to serve markets. Just the opposite. Any economic system that weakens and destroys families is not worth having. A system like that is the enemy of a healthy society.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-mitt-romney-supports-the-status-quo-but-for-everyone-else-its-infuriating
The article above is worth reading.
I have no idea, right now, what Carlson's solutions might be,
but it will be interesting to see.
I will add, the profit motive is a very peculiar way of organizing society, and it is time to question the sacred gospel of capitalism.
There is common ground with people who hold ideas we do not agree with.
But by working together on the common ground, we will come to some very needed understanding.
1
Trump attacks socialists. Is there any developer in the history of New York City who has had his hand out for government subsidies and tax breaks more than Donald Trump?
According to the Trump definition of socialism, any government sponsored safety net is evil and should be outlawed.
Problem is, there are no socialists in American politics. Those who use that to describe themselves only want more taxation on rich people and corporations, or recognition of under-represented groups. That's about it. Those who say otherwise are simply either ignorant about what socialism is, or are lying because they have nothing to offer America.
Ronald Reagan tried the "socialist" thing back in the 1960s as a hired gun for the medical lobby opposing Medicare.
The label had more potency then because of the very real Cold War threat. But obviously it didn't work. Ironically, it was President Reagan who saved Medicare by introducing the DRG price control system to arrest profiteering by the private medical system.
Most younger people in the US associate socialism with Sweden and Denmark and their higher standard of living.
2
The Con Don is using the same old hae-anger-fear propaganda that worked so well for him in 2016.
Are WE THE PEOPLE going to be stupid enough to buy into it agian? Not me.
The reason they use the word "socialist" is because Hitler was head of the socialist part in Germany. It was not the same as socialism in OUR United States of America.
Socialism in America means all of us working together to make life better for all of us and protecting 99.9% of us from the insatiably greedy 0.01% like The Con Don.
OUR interstate road systems are "socialist". OUR fire departments and police departments are "socialist" (except in the wealthiest areas where the inherited/stolen wealth Robber Barons, through their insurance companies, are now buying their own fire and police protection - instead of taxes they want to protect only their own "stuff" and lives.) 911 is "socialist". Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are "socialist". Public Education is "socialitst" Every public good that serves 99.9% of us is "socialist". I'm 100% behind it.
The Con Don wants to privatize every socially good organization that serves 99.9% of us so he and his inherited/stolen weatlh Robber Baron/radical religion brethren can "own" them.
NO. Not now. Not ever.
3
The idiots in my state will buy it. They don't understand that government exists for the good of all. They've been convinced by the Republicans that the government is evil unless they get something personally out of it like the agribusiness industry welfare payments aka farm subsidies and tariff subsidies.
So, we have a dangerous would-be fascist, totalitarian-enabling (cue Putin and Kim) authoritarian pretender in the White House smearing progressive Democratic policies as socialist horrors. The Fake President is clumsily, but viciously, resurrecting the "greatest hits" album of slanders and bald lies from his hateful mentor, the disbarred Roy Cohn, while emulating the soundly rejected, un-American garbage spewed by the infamous Joe McCarthy. We all know how that contrived, dark theater production ended for both of them. Make our day Trump!
11
The is the same old tired invectives the Republican's throw out there when they have nothing else positive to say, because they are in such low repute with the majority of the country.
There is no Socialists party in America, and the Liberalism, Progressivism, which were both ideologies of Franklin Roosevelt and Theodore Roosevelt, is not Socialism.
However, for all of the people who will let themselves be sucked in by the nonsense of Trump's new tag line, remember one thing, most of the citizens of this country benefit from what many Republican's like Trump would call Socialism....Social Security and Medicare is a form of Socialism.
Donald Trump is the worst kind of sleazebag, one who will say anything and do anything to survive, just like a human cockroach.....but, the exterminator's are gearing in in the Democratic house, to put an end to the infestation.
10
The is the same old troupe the Republican's throw out there when they have nothing else positive to say, because they are in such low repute with the majority of the country.
There is no Socialists party in America, and the Liberalism, Progressivism, which were both ideologies of Franklin Roosevelt and Theodore Roosevelt, is not Socialism.
However, for all of the people who will let themselves be sucked in by the nonsense of Trump's new tag line, remember one thing, most of the citizens of this country benefit from what many Republican's like Trump would call Socialism....Social Security and Medicare is a form of Socialism.
Donald Trump is the worst kind of sleazebag, one who will say anything and do anything to survive, just like a human cockroach.....but, the exterminator's are gearing in in the Democratic house, to put an end to the infestation.
3
It is Socialism when we have a wealthy Billionaire in the Whitehouse who has a lot of wealthy Billionaire friends advising and working in the Cabinet who can rig the tax system in a way that the don't pay their fair share of taxes and suck all of the money out of system, which should be going back into the country for infrastructure, elderly, military, education and other benefits to help this countries economy to stay strong as it has for generations.
The only people benefiting of a Socialist type set up are the ones like Trump, Mnuchin, Ross and rest of these maggots, who have stolen the money to run our country, and forcing the least able to afford to pay an inequitable amount of taxes to subsidize their profit gains.
6
Great! The fires of damnation in hell attributable to Christianity must be losing effect. The republican always need to have a bogey person. First it was communism then abortion now socialism. Dumb terms that have no impact on our daily lives and that Republican sheeple don’t know the meaning of anyway but gets them all riled up. Keep your gubment hands off my Medicare!
5
To have all these spectacular people identifying themselves with some form of democratic socialism while having the carnival barker from hell talking endlessly negatively about it, will push it ever further into popular consciousness. Who would think five years ago it would be viewed so favorably by so many people. And here this version of socialism isn't even asking for major social transformation. Just basic justice and decency. Still it is enough to cause wild panic in ruling circles as well as in timid center left commentators, who usually take a while to come around to even the smallest changes for the better.
4
Interesting that the ones most vocally against “socialism” are the jackbooted thugs of the right wing.
8
February 7, 2019
God knows what the word socialism is meant by various politicians - but it is as ever charged to suggest run away drain on the economic health of a prosperity - and its current high accolade the little man from Queens New York not occupying the White House paid for by us non socialist taxpayers - for the love of the Democratic Obama Clinton civility for a just culture and with hope and actuality for a shared cultural normative enlightenment of happiness collectively indeed. So forget Marx and Castro and whatever Putin is about or wherever Venezuela is going for with Juan......
1
Republicans have brilliant attack strategies. Paint Liberals as unhinged venezuela and soviet-union type socialists. Meanwhile the Left has zero marketing against all the propaganda of the right. The Left wastes it's time fighting the lies of the right instead of dismissing all of the Right as nothing but corporate bought and sold liars.
7
First they came for the "criminal illegal aliens"; then they came for the "socialists". We have seen this sort of strategy before, and it doesn't end well. When will they come for a group that they say you're part of?
2
Dems should just say that if FDR was a socialist, then so are we. So unless you want to relinquish your social security and medicare, just shut up.
5
On the way to a life in foreign affairs, I had a deep dive into "isms", courtesy of Professor Alfred Diamant whose life was a crash course in such matters.
I learned what I found out to be true in practice in Europe and Latin America, that the word "socialist" , was fought over by an amoeba like left, some of democratic persuasion, others not. Mussolini started out as a socialist. Nazi's appropriated the word. Franco's regime was rife with state owned enterprises, money losers sold off or closed by Spain's first (and successful) Socialist Prime Minister, Felipe Gonzalez.
Lenin and followers like Fidel claimed to be true socialists, while social democrats and democratic socialists (in practice an interchangeable term) drove one of the world's highest performing economies, that of Helmut Schmidt's West Germany.
The term "21st Century socialism", invented by a loopy Italian academic, was seized upon by Hugo Chavez and his ALBA cohorts to describe his Mussolini style rule, combining a professed loyalty to Marxist-Leninism with a fascist cult of personality and glorification of the state. Maduro inherited this mishmash and made it into a full fledged military dictatorship, Peron without Evita.
Trump and others are casting slurs at a large slice of democratic humanity, particularly in Europe and in parts of Latin America, who have joined with the Trump administration in supporting Guaido's interim presidency, a cheap shot which should not gp unchallenged.
1
Same old bogeyman that Roy Cohn created for Tail Gunner Joe and his side kick Richard Nixon to use scare the rubes and little children, just dressed-up in newer, less shabby clothing. Just wondering, following the State of the Union Address, how many of the gullible got busy tapping out letters and comments on social media supporting our Fearless Leaders harangue against Socialism, immediately after cashing their Social Security check for February?
5
Perhaps someone should buy Trump a dictionary for his next birthday. The man cannot spell nor is he fluent in English.
1
Humanity took its worst turn with the election of Trump since the rise of Hitler. That America could be the author of this development is a bad sign that things are going to get worse before they get even worse. "Great" for humanity is not coming now. Trump's "Great" is a manipulable, very temporary blip in areas seen by Trump as his voting bloc. America's only lasting greatness has been the programs started by FDR, the very things that Trump and Republicans want to deconstruct. Ironically, Trump's "Great" harkens back to the America created by what Trump and the Republicans will now go into high gear to brand as "socialist," playing on the broad social ignorance in America.
Yes. Expect to hear the word "socialism" a lot in 2019 and 2020.
2
Am not sure why Mr. Tackett put the words "socialist policies" in quotation marks in this article. Venezuelan policies have indeed been socialist, as described by dictators Chavez and Maduro. Also, the Times, once known as "Uptown Socialist Worker" (and may soon be again) needs to be careful in its reportage here. Tackett seems dismissive of charges that the Dems are heading increasingly left, but then again left wing Instagram Star AOC is the one talking about 70% marginal taxes and confiscation of property in a "Green New Deal". And today, the Times' former tech writer Farhad Manjoo called for the "abolishment" of billionaires. Tackett might think this villainization of Socialism is a political trick, but abolishing billionaires requires confiscation of assets, and is one step closer to liquidating the kulaks. The Dems, and the Times, are heading to very dark and dangerous place.
3
You can cherry pick the comments of a few people to fuel your hysteria but those views do not represent most of the Democratic Party. And don’t try to mischaracterize the green new deal as an exercise is wealth distribution as doing so is incredibly myopic. This is frankly a matter of survival from both the standpoint of sustainability and survival. And competitiveness as well for that matter. The rest of the world, China included, is not sitting around waiting for us to wake up. It’s not socialism. It’s common sense.
Someone should inform this dimwit we already are a socialist country. We have labor laws, the 40 hour work week, maternity leave, public schools, Medicare and Social Security just to name a few things.
6
@Steve
The Democrats have to inform the dimwit's supporters about this. They are the ones who benefit from these programs but don't seem to understand them--"Take your government hands off my Medicare!" The Dems run scared rather than educate voters about how government should work for them. I hope the new generation, that is not afraid of the word "socialism," will do a better job of it.
1
@Steve
Few countries in the world then would not be socialist by your definition!
Oh god no!
Please tell me that mississippi, alabama, kentucky, west virginia and south carolina still get their socialist handouts from their blue-state betters?
Whew...that was close.
For a second there I thought those hypocritical socialist red-states would finally have to grow up.
7
Ask 100 trumpets what socialism is and you'll get 100 different answers.
Trumpets aren't real...smart.
4
@Victorious Yankee
We are smart enough to see what socialism has done to Venezuela and know we don't want that here.
The USA still haunted by the ghost of Joseph McCarthy, I see.
You’re being taken for suckers - your economy isn’t designed to help you, you just struggle on while elsewhere it just creates human wreckage. Of course the wreckers, fat on the profits, are going to tell you to be scared of it - it’ll be them having to reach into their pockets and pay more.
Why the common garden US citizen accepts such an unjust set of systems that allows for rampant excess at the top and crumbs and expensive healthcare to you, I’ll never know. Ya’ll need to put your yellow vests on.
4
Is "socialism" a bad word? Well, it WAS the Union of Soviet "Socialist" Republics (U.S.S.R.). And it WAS the National "Socialist" Party (Nazi). And Venezuela IS a great socialist triumph. So yeah, socialism is a bad word, but only if your standard of value is human life. What most westerners who have never had their family members rounded up and killed in concentration camps are referring to is "soft" socialism, a mixture of freedom and government controls, because that's the only way "socialism" can survive economic and political realities. Again, look what happened to those nations (and several millions murdered) who tried pure socialism.
3
@Ed L. - The Nazis were not socialists except in name - Hitler hated the left. "National socialism" was something different entirely.
The picture in earlier additions made Pelosi look like the Fairy Queen of Edmund Spencer. The Dems should focus on the limiting the damage done by the rapacious corrupt plutocratic current president. Bettering the lives of the common folk. Hopefully the new members will steer clear of the Never Trump failures. The public is interested in education, better health care, a meaningful increase in the minimum wage, fair taxation of the super wealthy with particular interest in the heritance tax, etc. etc.. Keeping the Syrian the civil war from ending or trying to keep the long running pointless war in Afghanistan going, a place where long ago it was obvious that the US could not effect any good, certainly are misguided.
"Socialism" is code for various bogeymen that wander
the landscape in search of new victims for instilling irrational
fear and deep loathing. It can be used in place of "big government liberals", given that that phrase appears to be exclusive property of right wing radio, limbaugh in particular. Liberals tell you to do things you don't want to do, tell others they are entitled to things you don't think they deserve, and they love to collect your taxes to shell out those entitlements.
Those still capable of tingling upon hearing reagan's favorite lines are the targeted audience here. So the demographic is limited to a certain up in years sector who do vote regularly.
But it can hardly mean anything to younger people, which may not matter too much if they can't be bothered to vote.
To the evangelical crowd, "socialist" probably is code for "secular humanist", the vilest slur one can imagine hurling
at any fellow human being who may not, after all, have been
made in the creator's image.
Of course there is much distraction behind the invocation. Repeating ad infinitum on the propaganda chains will promote rote thinking and negative reflexes about any
democrat since the two words will often be joined to
insinuate the association. This is standard operating procedure followed by all acolytes of goebbels.
It's also used to tar democrats with something they don't stand for, which is effective since that party has not
yet worked out what it does stand for.
2
As a citizen of Canada, unlike any citizen of the USA, I enjoy first rate timely medical care but do not directly pay for it. Canadians do however pay for it via taxes. Contrary to what some Americans think our government does not intrude in any way whatsoever in any personal medical decisions and if you as Americans want to think Canada's universal health care is "socialism" so be it. However, thinking that there are zero "socialistic" entities in the USA is sheer stupidity. In addition to your Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security etc. other prime examples of socialism at work in your country would include your entire much bragged about armed forces, police departments, public school education, fire departments, car insurance and the list goes on. But then these are the thoughts of a Canadian who is currently governed by one of our two major political parties, i.e. the Liberal Party whose name many in your country think is a dirty word
2
The word socialism is so broad it makes no sense any more. What exactly do people mean? It seems like the current republicans view socialism as any form of taxation. Of course they are the first ones to spend trillions on a military. Do we see democrats suggesting all private property be owned by the government? What is a socialist anyway these days?
Trumps party seems more in line with the nasty party’s of a socialist party that leads to fascism. After all they seem very focused on Making America White Again.
1
While Trump remains oblivious to the rise of Fascism in America, he is otherwise engaged in painting Socialists in a Capitalist society, he should take a class at the Art Student's League in New York.
If you visit the Norman Rockwell Museum, you will find that his work is a fine American blend of colors. During WWII when Democracy was in peril, Rockwell was able to lift the spirits of many Americans by placing in the Saturday Evening Post, a smile of recognition to brighten dark times.
His more serious work came later; one was to be seen in The White House when President Obama was in office. The Socialist Club, the members often pronounced, as those 'Seychellists', is worn and old. Trump, for one reason or another, appears more comfortable with the Leader of Siberia, whose photos bring to mind Potter's Lord V.
But we are in America after all, and when our state of affairs does not appear to go right, turn left. Mike Murphy may have something of interest to say, bringing to mind that The Trump Presidency is unique, laced with depressive flavors of Edward Hopper's, centering on isolationism in the midst of a tarnished, tarred and feathered administration, where the word 'Joy' seldom features.
1
Paid vacations.
Social Security.
Medicare.
40-hour workweek.
Public education.
Public transportation.
Public libraries.
Public hospitals.
Public universities.
Public parks.
SOCIALISM!
Get rid of them all!! I'm sure all of Chump's supporters will be on board.
7
@Jojojo
Quite sadly; Jojojo, you're right !
These fools are clueless to the value of everything you mention - and more.
They would gladly give it away with no clue to the real loss to our Democracy.
1
@Jojojo
But don’t forget we will still have the American Dream!!!
(And Paris, and Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy).
1
It is time to kick the Monopoly board game into the air and toss shareholder capitalism into the rubbish tip.
This is what the 2020 election is going to be: Democrats are Socialists! Democrats are Socialists!
The Dems better not let themselves be baited with this or they could regret it. When accused of being a Socialist, the reply should be: 'Yeah, I'm an Eisenhower Socialist. I support a 90% progressive tax."
People in the US (and Europe) are angry and I believe this is because they don't have any money. Without money you cannot fulfill your life. The pursuit of happiness is no longer an option in the capitalist world.
5
Remember the movie Red Dawn? That's what's happening with the Democrats. It won't be paratroopers from Russia, but instead social justice warriors from NYC and SF coming in on Uber's to confiscate your stuff and put the religious, conservatives and white men all in camps. All in the name of some vague cause like a Green New Deal. All predicated on the idea that an evil group of wealthy white rich people are plotting against you, despite the fact that most people, wealthy or not, are just trying to get through the day. The billionaires they like - Warren "the cordial vulture capitalist, who loves to sell obesity to the masses" Buffett, Tom Steyer and George "I moved all of my wealth to a charitable trust (wink, wink)" Soros will be safe, with the rest will be brought to the public square to be made examples of. Sounds like hyperbole, but the policy platform of the Democrats gets closer every day.
1
I grew up in what is the only perfect socialist utopia ever created, the Panama Canal Zone, and it was created by the U. S. government. They did a fine job, as any kid lucky enough to have grown up there will attest to. Yes, the Pancanal company towns shared the zone with both large and very small bases, but the rest of the civilian Canal Zone paid for itself via canal fees. We enjoyed superb schools, recreation, arts, and entertainment, and we all lived in the same houses and shopped at the same stores. Materialism and consumerism were usurped by shared purposes and experiences. It was idyllic and pretty great.
3
The democrat call for socialization of health care would take away private insurance from over 150 Million Americans. Good luck with that.
1
Venezuela turned to flow blown Socialism only after the Capitalists raided their country and took their wealth. That’s a lesson that US. Capitalists don’t want to hear.
Actually, Mr. President, America loves socialism and wants a little more.
2
Actually, here in the United States, we alarmed by new calls to adopt fascism in our country. Democratic socialism is very appealing to the 99%.
3
And on Tuesday he'll refresh himself at a MAGAhead rally in El Paso.
Wonder if he'll pronounce "Juárez" to rhyme with "who says"?
1
I get that The Base hears 'socialism' and starts drooling, reaches for their guns to defend the government they despise.
But how very sad to see the Pavlovian response of Congress to Trump's school-boy threats and resolve to crush socialism in America at all costs. Yes, thank God for Trump.
These old Congressional boys are the biggest proponents of American socialism ever. Corporate socialism. Social support for rich guys. Picking corporate winners and users with abandon, and showering the elect with government money.
Anyone, any formerly responsible media outlet that lets this pass without detailed analysis, and a campaign of straight talk to soothe worried patriotic breasts, is irresponsible to the level of complicity.
We are a nation that avidly pursues "socialist" policies, and have done so since the moment of our founding.
NY Times, set that record straight. Short-circuit this disingenuous and dangerous debate now. That's not politics its pursuit of the truth, and it really is your job.
1
Legislation that helps the wealthy gets branded as “good for America” .
Legislation that helps the average American gets branded as “socialism”.
1
Once again, Trump drags our country back to the 1950s - in this instance, to the good, ol' fashioned Red Scare. If experience serves, his low-information "base" will troop along merrily, with no understanding of what "socialism" means - most equate it dimly with Stalinism, or simply use the word to describe "stuff about government that makes me really, really mad, or reminds me of Nancy Pelosi or that bigmouth girl from the Bronx, what's-her-name?!!!"
It is genuinely tiresome - and it's not worth the energy to explain reality to the hard-core 34%, who never listen anyway.
Socialism is a truly splendid system, but only if, as in any other type of economic and political scheme, YOU are at the top of the pyramid (which is not supposed to exist, but does).
The history of the recent world is littered with the noisome decay caused by this sort of odious system.
Lenin and others of his ilk would be giggling over chess and vodka.
3
You might wish to reconsider what this sentence, “The report suggested that Democratic policies emulating Venezuela would cause the American economy to shrink by 40 percent, just as Mr. Trump did on Tuesday night.” says.
Trump has spent his entire adult life calling out his "enemies" who questioned his actions and have thwarted his goals, from contractors to lawyers to politicians. It is what he does.
This latest focus on "socialism" is just another example of his fear-mongering and conning people (his "base") who know nothing about history and who ignore his own history of corruption, ignorance, and racism. If his supporters understood that "socialism" means affordable health care for all Americans, affordable tuition for students, they would ignore this latest, pathetic attempt to slander Democrats for wanting to improve the quality of their lives. Democrats must make this clear in the campaign for 2020.
Trump is playing to his base, people who have no idea what socialism is, or that it has basically disappeared as an economic system. Probably this is not a cynical ploy. He is equally ignorant.
He's almost certainly referring to most European countries and many others throughout the world where everyone shares in the cost of managing an economy that recognizes the rights to thrive, not only of working people but of the thousands of business enterprises, big and small, that are the engines of the economy. Has Trump never heard of Royal Dutch Shell? Unilever? Volkswagen? And hundreds, thousands of other businesses big and small in countries that govern themselves with a sensible balance of interests that only a fool would call socialist.
It was Winston Churchill who pragmatically recognized the good sense in encouraging business and harnessing its economic potential as a contributor to the common good. Trump, alas, is no Churchill.
3
Re Socialists as Villains
Read
Sanders Over the Edge
By Paul Krugman
Mr. Krugman relentlessly attacked Senator Sanders during the Primaries for his socialistic views culminating in above (while declaring "Trump is Right on Economics)
----
Data
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/opinion/sanders-over-the-edge.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/opinion/paul-krugman-trump-is-right-on-economics.html
1
If the Democratic presidential candidates do not stay away from policies that most Americans consider to be socialism, when the 2020 presidential race begins in earnest they may find themselves LEFT at the gate.
1
@Jay Orchard
Social Security is socialism
Medicare is socialism
The VA is socialism
The interstate highway system is socialism
The United States Military is socialism
Public police and fire departments are socialism
Roads, bridges, tunnels, parks and airports are socialism
Public education is socialism
Maybe you and the rest of right-wing America ought to work on your cognitive dissonance issues and acute chronic allergy to reality rather than being stuck in the paranoid horror film called "Venezuela !" that the Fake News channel and Friends sold you.
5
@Socrates
If you read my comment carefully, I deliberately referred to Democrats staying away from "policies that most Americans consider to be socialism." The items on your list are NOT CONSIDERED by most Americans to be socialism, whether they actually ARE or not. And, by the way, it's arrogant, presumptuous and wrong for you to assume that I am part of "right-wing" America or that I get my news from Fox. I am, however, an American who is always right. (LOL)
Thinking of Democratic Socialism, I'm eagerly waiting for Senator Bernie Sanders to announce as a candidate for President.
Of course, Trump will deride Sanders as an evil Socialist.
So will Hillary-type Democrats. And they may be even more snide and derisive like they and Establishment media were in 2016.
It may be a war for the soul of the Democratic Party, maybe unfortunate, but very necessary.
2
American Socialism:
A system of government where successful blue-state giants have that success punished by forcing them to pay the bills of insolvent southern states through out Socialist Federal Tax System.
6
That’s the whole Republican campaign strategy: tax cuts (no mention that they’ll primarily benefit the top 1%), and fear/hate of make-believe villains
My father, a Rush Limbaugh fan, could not explain why he hated President Obama, except to say that he was a socialist. When asked what a socialist is, he sputtered and then said it’s one step away from a communist.
Socialism and communism are simply philosophies of community. Although never put into actual practice, they’re more “populist” than capitalism. Historically countries that have been called socialist or communist have actually been fascist.
For Republicans all of the above is moot. They’ll create an enemy, define an enemy, and then campaign against that enemy. There’s nothing authentic about Republicans. Their only true goal is to loot the USA, a goal they share with Russia and Saudi Arabia.
3
If Trump is going to demonize socialism he needs to check himself and his Stalinist tactics in driving our economy to be oil dependent, interfering in free market global capitalism and choosing our allies based on his business interests. His refusal to take responsibility for climate change in the 21st century is a crime. Democratic socialism is not an evil, but a means to infuse ethics and accountability into capitalism, and to insure business interests are accountable to people and the planet.
2
Venezuela's disaster is not the result of "socialism." It is the the corruption of Hugo Chavez who used criminal street gangs to suppress opposition and over produced oil to the extent that the price plummeted and the oilfields severely damaged. It was all the normal South American kleptocracy, not "Socialism."
2
There is so much socialism in the USA right now that we all rely upon:
The US Military
The FAA
Police and Fire Departments
Our roads and infrastructure.
This is just a small sample of what I mean.
1
Bernie Sanders and Chicas like Cortez are the biggest national security threat. They will destroy the american prosperity. Socialism has not worked anywhere. Why will it work in US? Profits is the biggest motivator to mobilize masses and increase productivity of a nation. If you take it out of hands of the employer(70% tax) there will be no motivation to invest. There will be no employee if there is no employer. Socialism = Misery.
Trump vs socialism. That could play. But Trump should ask himself, "Do I feel lucky today?"
Trump, and his ilk, are masters of deception by way of buzzword. Label something as "socialism" and they will be certain to react violently. But ask one of them whether they support Medicare, or Social Security, or public education and the response will be "of course." Each program is clearly socialistic. As the same person if they support single payer medical care and they will scream socialism. Why do Americans believe that it is more important to educate a poor child than to keep that child alive?
1
Tell me is it rank socialism to have our own American citizens be hired to rebuild the infrastructure, rather than privatizing it so Trump's donors can make a killing? And then own the bridges and tunnels and charge us for their use forever? I know that it would be cheaper and create a lot of jobs for regular people to let them do the work, but I guess the GOP considers that a dangerous form of socialism. Same with New Green Deal. No I guess privatizing is now the democratic way. Too bad for us! I mean they already have taken over parts of our national parks for their own private use.
3
Socialism is being taught as just another subject in our colleges all across America. It is just one of the ways that the alt-left is trying to get more people to like Socialism. If you have an ideology that makes no sense, it must be sold through brainwashing, Hollywood movies, intimidation and a complicit alt left media.
It seems almost certain to backfire, because people hate Trump. It's like a billboards saying, "Hate Trump, Vote for Socialists". I'm wondering whether or not it is at all worth participating in the death march economy since both parties have betrayed the people and the world with their fracking, which dumped huge amounts of climate crisis accelerating methane into the atmosphere? I'd like to be in support of of the government, but it is not possible now.
1
Trump is out of touch with the average person and is champion of most of the super rich 1%. The highest standard of living and the healthiest population can be found in the Scandinavian countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark where there is a form of socialism. There are still extremely wealthy people in those countries in spite of high taxes on their income. One problem in our country is we spend so much money on military spending because we are so paranoid and insecure as well as this spending is part of our economy. We need universal medical coverage that is free for everyone as well as free education. However keeping people uneducated allows them to be led by the nose like cattle. Fox News is the perpetrator of Trump and the right wing Republican Parties agenda of suppression and racial divide.
2
The word "socialism" only reserves its sting for some people over a certain age, who are probably also compulsive Fox watchers. To most Americans, the term is at worst neutral. This is not a winning strategy for the GOP, so please, full speed ahead! Once those accursed socialists have the forum to explain their programs to a beleaguered and cheated society, it will be a game changer. In 2016 everyone, including the Clintonites, tried to tar Berrnie with the term and it backfired spectacularly. Within the next couple of months, when millions of Americans see how the "greatest tax cut in history" shortchanged them once again, socialism is going to look pretty good.
2
Somebody has to get through to the blind Trumpers and make them understand that what the Republicans have successfully set right now is - socialism for the rich, and free enterprise for the rest of us.
2
Capitalism works best when it’s tempered with some socialism. Pure capitalism; dog eat dog, the common good supplanted by greed.
By the way, those roads you drive on,
They’re a fine example of socialism working for the benefit of all.
2
The more I learn about socialism, the more I realize I am a socialist. Health care for all. Yes!
2
First a good political move on the party's writing on the SOTU speech, but is it something to be worried about by the democrats? It did give AOC a platform/need to respond, so on this and other points it worked... and on the whole, the speech was only a 2020 campaign speech, a political tactic using the Pelosi Podium.
As far as the comparison of socialism with Venezuela current and recent pasts economic/social troubles , do we really believe America is looking to become a socialist country as such as others around the globe are?
A Green New Deal is not socialism, but a new way of conducting business in America that many many fear and so call it 'socialism', to add only to this narrative of /for fear and keep the powers businesses flowing profits not for the people's health, welfare, and benefits but their pockets.
A lot also will be who the democrats put forth as a candidate who will best define these issues and at the same time defeat Trump in 2020.
It's too depressing that "Socialism" is completely misunderstood and vilified in this country. Any good idea for improving the lives of most Americans--well-funded schools; health care for all; higher taxes on the super-super-rich to support more social programs--is branded "Socialist!" These are ideas just like Social Security, Medicare, public libraries, public subway and bus systems. We should just ask the Democratic Socialists of America to change their name to the Generous Democrats of America. These ideas, after all, just stem from a generous desire to provide all Americans with decent living standards.
All the countries Nordic and Western European countries (18) that rank higher than the US on the UN's latest Happiness Report have implemented generous social supports that help keep people in those societies from having the American rates of suicide and opioid addiction, the so-called "diseases of despair." They are not socialist countries. They are just decent, civic-minded societies who care about the quality of the lives people in their society are leading. And ultimately, they are rewarded with happier, better-functioning societies.
Trump is too good at creating bogey men for us to ignore this new fear-mongering tactic. We'll have to remind voters that his scare tactics are a cover for a lack of accomplishments. The only accomplishment of Trump and his fellow Republicans is filling the wallets of the super-wealthy through the 2017 tax cut.
3
Trump rails against socialism, but in the same speech wants the government to drive down prescription prices. Let the free market decide prices. If the prices are too high, Americans will choose cheaper options like going without medication, or filing for bankruptcy (to which Trump himself is not stranger).
1
Trump wants to attack socialism? Bring it on.
This is just one more way for Republicans to alienate young people in this country who have a far more favourable view of socialism than the Supply Side System that never works as advertised (not even once), but has left young people with less pay and more debt than their parents.
Markets are not going anywhere. People are comfortable with money, and markets usually do a decent job of distributing resources, even though they are far from perfect and sometimes promote inefficiencies (like planned obsolescence which encourages the repeated selling of low quality junk instead poor products that last forever).
But when Adam Smith wrote the Wealth of Nations (1776), and the Constitution was ratified (1787), capitalism was not a word, and in fact, Adam Smith was against many of the practices that capitalists claim are necessary.
Capital is machinery, buildings, land, and the money that buys it. Capitalism demands that government give preferable treatment to capital and it's owners. It actively subsidizes the replacement of workers with machinery, with the result that some workers are replaced by machinery that is less efficient because it gets a tax cut, and that we do not have enough workers trained to run the machinery.
Socialism does not conflict with markets or the Constitution, which says trade (markets) must be taxed and regulated. It merely uses democracy to invest in humans, because humans are the point of the economy.
2
The President has a point. There is a place for private services for education and health care. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for public education and health care.
The President is focused on the threat to our border. Right now we have measles outbreaks in parts of the USA. We have an opioid addiction problem and polio is coming back. Can anyone argue that a Pandemic is more of a threat to the US homeland than the handful of caravans that are looking for legal asylum into the USA?
Access to health care and vaccinations, along with Universal coverage is a national security issue that is being completely ignored.
1
Its very clear what Trump like previous Republican regimes have advocated: Socialism for the Rich - "Free Enterprise" for the poor and the middle class.
2
Socialism, like many of our political terms, has become hopelessly vague - it means much different things to different people, and has always been a dog whistle to the right. I'd like to see the term retired. In the end, however, the good of society transcends the good of the 1%.
Does Mr. Trump propose ending Social Security, Medicare, and Veterans' medical services?
And if we note that he is supposedly fabulously wealthy and pays no taxes, is he not the recipient of billionaire socialism, all wealth to the wealthiest?
1
Increasing taxes incrementally to those that can afford it is OK. 70% tax rate? Free college for all? That is socialism. China's top tax rate is 45%. Give me a break.
1
All the dire warnings about "Socialism!" are just bringing on the long overdue conversation. Very quickly the conversation makes it clear that fanatical capitalism has finally killed the Golden Goose, by trying to hoard the wealth for a tiny minority of participants. The longer it takes to make a correction, & the further back towards the Left we have to go to find the actual Center, the more radical the needed changes will sound. At this point, only the most 'radical' Democrats have the actual, meaningful, effective solutions for this country.
2
Excellent! This is the highest profile we socialists have been given in years! And considering the messenger, even more young people will now go to research the history of socialism and labor in America, and be favorably predisposed to it because it's something Trump hates.
I've never had cause to say this before, but thank you Trump!
1
As I understand it, Socialism means that the government exists for the benefit of all its citizens, not just for the "1%", Trust fund babies like Trump, Koch Brothers, and Jarad Kushner, and other Kleptocrats. The right wing in the United States has made Socialism in this country a taboo word where the average person does not comprehend that social policies that benefit everyone in the society are good for them. They have allowed a small minority to drive the conversation by using fear, propaganda, and theft of voting rights to make people vote against their vested interests. Don't fall for the Trump con man tactics and ask yourself "Has this man done anything for me?" Donald Trump and the current Republican Party seem to be doing Putin's business of turning the United States into an isolated, 2nd world power that no longer is a leading supporter of Democracy in the world.
1
I am one of the retired spoiled brats that had excellent workplace-provided health insurance. So for me, at 66, Medicare is not cheap. I do support Medicare for All, but should we get it, don't expect free healthcare. Some will experience sticker shock.
Unless you have no retirement income and no retirement assets, it might turn out you are labelled cheap. I doubt your costs are high in the least.
It is time to shine the light on; Propaganda-Fueled Fears of Socialism for all to see.
It seems like the far and "not too far" right has been trained to respond with instant fear at the mention of Socialism.
Let's be very clear; We are a Democratic Republic - or at least we used to be - Before the GOP had become terminally infected and totally ADDICTED to greed.
Like all "Junkies" - their known responsibilities and obligations are thrown out of the window and replaced by the never ending need for a "fix".
Fear is the primary tool of the GOP to terrify their misguided electorate to the horrors of Socialism.
BUT . . .
Every American enjoys the now dwindling availability of "Social-Services".
Our Social Community:
Collects our garbage -
Patrols our streets -
Put out our fires -
Attempts to educate our children -
Protects our borders -
Protect our Health -
Protect our Retirement -
Used to Protect our Environment -
Used to Protect our Food Supply -
Used to Protect our money -
And on and on . . . . !
Without our Social-Safety-Net -
The "We the People" would have to take care of all of these "taken for granted" services which are provided as the result of the; Community "chipping in" and collectively paying for our essential services.
The "Extremely Wealthy" does not require any of the Social Safety Net services the "We the People" depend on.
Our contributions in the way of taxes have been given away to those who do not need it.
2
Surprise president Trump, what do you think social security and medicare are? They are a forms of socialism. Are you suggesting that we eliminate both? Go ahead and propose that and see how far your reelection goes, that is if you ever get that far. These are the same socialist accusations that they threw at President Franklin Roosevelt when he introduced the idea of social security and fortunately he prevailed.
Socialism is not Communism and having our citizens benefit from what they pay in taxes is not such a bad thing. This country will never be a socialistic society as we are too enmeshed in the capitalistic process to ever really change.
So go ahead and throw the red meat to your followers as you have no glue on how our economy really works.
1
That was, by far, the most important part of Trump's 2019 SOTU.
The moment he said that and heard the thundering bipartisan applauses and chants, he knew there was a center-ground that he could reach.
This may be a long-term inflection point in the history of the USA, comparable to the Reconstruction and WWII.
100% socialism is bad, as is 100% capitalism. That's why I believe in democracy. Capitalism's good point is competition', but when people, and I use that term loosely, buy up ALL their competitors, as now, it's bad for all but them. When all things are completely regulated, bad and no diversity. Democracy can over time and attempts can achieve a working solution.
All of the advanced counties of the world are socialist countries (Finland, Sweden,Germany.....) They all practice their own unique version of socialism ( Read "Viking Economics" by George Lakey).
Trump and the other American oligarchs greatly fear any form of socialism because it erodes the complete economic, political and military power they now control. America's greatest president, FDR, was a social democrat, somewhat similar to Bernie Sanders.
Socialism is not the enemy, it is the solution.
socialism is a threat. especially because so many of our newly elected officials are admitted socialists. the problem is we've seen a long history of socialism in Europe. and it doesn't work. so why would so many of our young politicians being pushing for a system that has proven it doesn't work? but they are and will be working very hard to achieve their socialist goals.
I am alive because we have universal health care in Canada. Diagnosed at 34 with SLE our system has kept me alive.
I never had to worry about being in debt when hospitalized . Nobody demeans another human being for using the system.
Some Americans view it as a slippery slope. I can assure you being told you are dying and having to quit work because of it. Will change the mind of anyone who opposes it.
90
Democrats need to convey a simple message again and again: we are a nation that extends a helping hand to our fellow citizens.
Social security...medicare...Trump and his cohorts would label these programs socialist...but they're part of our common heritage in which we as a democracy express a willingness to help each other. Even our military engages in similar programs: offering, for example, quality medical care for veterans
This is not socialism...this is what makes America a strong nation.
Trump is working to ruin in.
Don't let Trump scare you!
67
@Peter Lobel
These programs are socialist, they are enacted for the social good. Socialism isn't a bad word!
Authoritarian governments that cloak themselves falsely in a socialist light (like venezuela) are not socialist. Maduro simply isn't a socialist.
7
@Peter Lobel
Democrats should respond mindfully rather than react fearfully every time someone throws the label "socialism" at them. VA, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Food Stamps, Unemployment benefits, Head Start, etc. etc.--what are these if not "socialism", that is social programs that help those less fortunate, our veterans, our elderly, our young, our fragile.
And while Democrats respond to the "socialism" pejorative, they shouldn't forget other "social" programs geared to big business: corporate tax cuts, tax incentives, tax rules that allow hedge fund managers creative ways of avoiding taxes that others--not so fortunate or lucky--would have to pay!
And what about the socialism that consists of publicly subsidized sports arenas that, except for the hired talent, consists mainly of minimum wage jobs and lots of profits for the owners.
2
@John
Your misunderstanding of the issues involved in the VA makes your argument invalid.
Agreed, pieces of the VA are broken and it's horrible and tragic that folks have died waiting for care, but the system as a whole does a lot of good for a lot of people despite this. The bigger issue with the VA is inadequate support by our elected officials and a lack of willingness to evaluate what is wrong and correct those issues.
I find it amazing that conservatives always rail against social programs and point to the VA as an example, but fail to look at how they (or their representatives) have cut funding and/or otherwise prevented it from running effectively.
They would rather have a convenient scapegoat (of their own making) to point at instead of cleaning up their mess (not saying the left has no culpability too, but the right's entire platform is dismantling government).
1
It may be glib of me, but I knew this was going to happen as the handwriting has been on the wall for at least the past 20 years.
It's one thing to believe that government exists to help solve problems that individuals can't. It's quite another to wear it on your sleeve. And it's still another to wear a badge that says "I'm a Democratic-Socialist. How do you do?"
This sort of thing worked (kind of) for Bernie Sanders as mayor of a town in Vermont. And his federal career started off as something a fluke of Vermont politics, if only because of initial support by the hippies, artists and otherwise disgruntled urban refugees that landed in Vermont over the 60s and 70s. (Contrast and compare Vermont and New Hampshire's stories and politics over that time.) But he proved his worth over time, to all Vermonters of all stripes, that even Republicans vote for him now.
Nevertheless, it's worth remembering that Sanders had a very hard time of it initially. He both wouldn't work with others, and others wouldn't work with him. Whether that has changed because he has mellowed or that others came to be sympathetic to his politics, I don't know.
But the right wing has always been there, watching him like a hawk. He can parade AOC all around the country all he wants, but he neglects the dangers of making too much about the "socialist" nomenclature. He feels emboldened by a relatively successful show of it in his presidential campaign, but IMHO, he needs to chill with the ideology of it.
Neither of the terms "socialism" and "capitalism" really mean what we think they do, and there is a wide range of regimes that can fit within either definition, and in some cases, both. Venezuela may be a "socialist" country (or at least call itself such), but it's also extremely corrupt and authoritarian--two factors that are probably more determinative of its current situation than whether or not it identifies as "socialist".
There are also Scandinavian social democracies that pair democratic government with a strong social safety net, as well as a system of private enterprise and capital.
This fear mongering worked best when we had the USSR to point to as an example--a once great empire reduced to a poor authoritarian country, drained of its smartest and most capable citizens, and locked in a cold war it was destined to lose. But now there's China, with its "one country, two systems" approach that includes both capitalism and communism/socialism--and it's hard to say that it hasn't worked for them, even if there's no democracy to speak of.
The "socialism" being proposed in the US would merely take us back to where we were in terms of taxation and safety net around the time of the New Deal through the post-WWII period until the 1970's. There are plenty of the President's supporters who refer to such times as "the good ol' days".
1
The Democrats should now build a campaign that Trump and the GOP want to take aware your Medicare and Social Security, which by some definitions are socialist programs. Might also throw in farm subsidies and Veterans Administration benefits.
2
Trump told his GOP audience that “socialism” were the chief domestic danger the country faces, alongside immigrants. He has created a new soundbite to divide and confuse the American people ahead of a – possible – re-election campaign, tearing a page out of the GOP playbook, that attacks almost anything Democrats wanted to do as socialism – modest tax increases on the wealthy; regulations to lower carbon emissions; health-care reform etc.
No wonder many young people seem to have concluded that socialism would work for them. Some 51 % have a positive view of socialism while only 45 percent have a positive view of capitalism. They have little actual experience with socialism, but having tens of thousands of dollars in debt, working at a job with mediocre wages and few benefits, with little prospect of affording a home of their own, capitalism may not be so appealing.
Conservatives and libertarians tend to brand any deviation from market fundamentalism a form of socialism. They are to blame for failing to reform the country’s economy in a way that would also benefit the working class.
3
Great!
Then let's get rid of:
Ethanol
Agricultural price supports
Farm subsidies
Government provided crop and flood insurance
Oil and gas subsidies
Medicare
Medicaid
Social Security
Public education
FEMA
CHIPS
FDA
EPA
National Endowment for the Arts
PBS
Eminent domain
Just chuck all of it. Let the markets rule! Free enterprise is king! If it can't make money on it's own, get rid of it!
That's true freedom, man!
19
Most people don't like to be told what to do. So regarding health care, Democrats should look at an incremental approach by first talking about a Public Option instead of a universal shift to a mandated Medicare for All program.
Allow people and companies to redirect their current insurance premiums to Medicare and begin receiving health care from the existing system that has admirably covered hundreds of millions of the oldest and neediest (in terms of required treatment).
A small company could take the Public Option and get out to the business of having to research, compare, negotiate, administer, and update their current insurance coverage through for-profit health insurers.
Increasing Medicare's risk pool with younger healthier individuals will help cut their costs and provide better coverage.
Why is it we don't have a Public Option right now? It would allow people and businesses another avenue to choose from.
3
The only "good" socialism is not for people but for corporations and businesses who batten on subsidies. How many Walmart employees get supplemental food benefits so the Waltons can line their pockets? How many businesses demand tax breaks to locate? How much actual money is stuffed into corporate subsidies by the taxpayer while the businesses fiddle their taxes, park assets offshore and buy politicians?
7
As many of the commentators here have already pointed out, any tax policy—including regressive ones that favor high personal incomes or corporate profits—reflects an intentional fiscal policy. The way the term "socialist" is applied in the SOTUS and by many politicians totally depends on who benefits from the specific fiscal policy in question—both in terms of who gets to keep their money and of who benefits from the government's use of the collected revenue.
Socialism is a word that no two people hear or use the same way. Are we talking about the failed socialism of the Post-WWII Eastern Block or Latin American "revolutionary" regimes, or of Scandinavian countries that have enjoyed some of the largest economic growth rates in the world?
Remember that FDR was labelled a socialist more than a few times and by many whose opinions held sway. But he was a man who had to make hard choices, many which lay outside his own personal leanings, to save a nation. History seems to have judged those favorably.
Perhaps, it is too much to hope these days that serious policy not be framed with such reductive rhetoric as expressed in the SOTUS. Let's hope the new composition of the House of Representatives can keep the debate grounded in real choices.
4
I'm no economic genius but I have figured out some simple stuff. If socialism enables me to afford the meds my diabetic wife needs, bring it on. If socialism cuts into Fat Cat income and reduces the number of times they can afford to play golf, I can live with that.
The Wall Street Journal reported that some CEO got a $100 million income package whereas I have to struggle to get a 50 cent raise. I can accept socialism if that results in a higher living standard for my family. I expect that CEO can get along with a few million less.
Get real America. The robber barons are back, their mascot is Donald Trump, and the cheerleaders are republicans.
323
@Barney K
Democratic socialists do not want to create an all-powerful government bureaucracy. But we do not want big corporate bureaucracies to control our society either. Rather, we believe that social and economic decisions should be made by those whom they most affect.
Today, corporate executives who answer only to themselves and a few wealthy stockholders make basic economic decisions affecting millions of people. Resources are used to make money for capitalists rather than to meet human needs. We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them.
Social ownership could take many forms, such as worker-owned cooperatives or publicly owned enterprises managed by workers and consumer representatives. Democratic socialists favor as much decentralization as possible. While the large concentrations of capital in industries such as energy and steel may necessitate some form of state ownership, many consumer-goods industries might be best run as cooperatives.
Democratic socialists have long rejected the belief that the whole economy should be centrally planned. While we believe that democratic planning can shape major social investments like mass transit, housing, and energy, market mechanisms are needed to determine the demand for many consumer goods.
32
@Barney K
Good for you Barney. I fear insufficient numbers of your fellow Americans think about this issue so clearly.
During the cold war, both sides conspired to confuse their respective populations by contrasting American Democracy with Russian Communism/Socialism, and I fear this confusion lingers in the American psyche.
Clarity requires, as a start, a distinction between two factors: (1) Mode of government, with Democracy vs Dictatorship the basal options, and (2) mode of economy with Capitalism vs Socialism as the options.
In follows that there are four possible pairings:
- democratic capitalism
- democratic socialism
- dictatorial capitalism
- dictatorial socialism
Everyone rejects the two dictatorial options, including those who live under such systems. That alone is why the Soviet Union collapsed.
Further clarity requires grasping that within a Democracy, there is a continuum of options available between Ruthless Capitalism and State-Ownership Socialism.
Europe and the rest of the western democratic world, except a significant number of Americans, understand this continuum. Socialist social programs, like universal single payer medical care are understood as no more anti-capitalist than universal education, or public roads, public police and fire services, or public utilities.
Capitalist ideologues, like most Republicans, have a vested interest in propaganizing Americans to the contrary, via Fox News.
Time to wake up, and smell the coffee.
19
@Barney K
The cheerleaders are often Democrats, too.
3
I believe in "Social" Security, I believe in affordable healthcare for all, I believe in equal opportunity for all, I believe in equal justice for all, and I believe in public education for all. Probably missed a few but the point is many of our current federal programs like Social Security and Medicare are in fact socialist.
Trumps flailing away at anything he thinks might have a negative impact on the Democrats. Next week it'll be some other attack, maybe the Democrats are weak on defense, or privatizing education so the rich can continue to plunder the national treasury.
Hurry up 2020.
109
@cherrylog754 I hear you. Trump's "base" includes many who shout " Keep your government hands off my Medicare ! "
11
Well, if Socialism again takes root in America, Trump is the main driver. His greed and ill-gotten wealth that he flaunts and brags about promotes the antidote, Socialism. The obscene extremes in wealth in America and the rest of the Capitalist world would be the cause. Trump, a (supposedly) multi-billionaire pays no taxes. That is a slap across the face to those who struggle in the lower tiers of an unjust economic system that is rigged for the wealthy. In this regard, Socialism is a logical consequence.
151
@Jack The Ex-Patriot: ??" If Socialism again takes root in America,..."?? Heh? When was USA ever 'socialist'? Never - USA doens't really even have a left. Right and center only. Social democracies in Europe aren't 'socialist' they are social democracies. A much admired boss and mentor I worked for once described Social Democracy in the best way - capitalism with a friendly face - or soul, as it were.
Correction: Capitalism with a human face. And it should be strived for !
21
@Jack The Ex-Patriot: ??" If Socialism again takes root in America,..."?? Heh? When was USA ever 'socialist'? Never - USA doens't really even have a left. Right and center only. Social democracies in Europe aren't 'socialist' they are social democracies. A much admired boss and mentor I worked for once described Social Democracy in the best way - capitalism with a friendly face - or soul, as it were.
Never conflate socialism with the social safety net. The democrats themselves should make this distinction or are they afraid of offending the genuine radicals in the DSA? Easy enough to distinguish European style safety net whose countries also maintain high marks on economic freedom, individual rights etc from Venezuela’s totalitarianism which involves nationalizing industry and destroying individual rights. The same people who want to increase social safety net spending should support a robust business environment to pay for it. That turns the teenage dorm room discussion into a grown up discussion (hello aoc?).
75
@mackeral
Actually it is socialism if the meaning of the word equates to a collective ... but then again all insurance both private or public is such...also unions, public education, Social Security, Medicare, even Defense.
We could all save for health, death and property risks, but that doesn’t make sense as it’s inefficient given the low rate of such things happening for a individual.
It’s only a word, much like Freedom, Democracy, Republic, or Capitalism. It’s how it’s actulally implemented that counts, and no one, no Democrat or Democratic-Socialist or Independent candidate is advocating Socialism similar to what existed in the USSR or Mao’s China.
26
@mackeral Norway is more socialist than Venezuela, specifically in terms of nationalized industry.
4
@mackeral
The social safety net is socialist. One side of the aisle is suddenly very afraid of a DSA candidate and someone who has long labeled himself as a socialist, as a result they're trying to shift the label of "socialism" to be authoritarian communism. Those European style safety nets are socialist and if you don't like socialism so much please send back your social security checks and tear up your medicare card.
9
What is Social Security? What about Medicare? What about the fact that other countries that are socialist are doing better by their citizens than America? Venezuela has problems because of corruption, not socialism. The Soviet Union had problems for the same reasons. Anger at corruption and the uncaring attitudes of the richest(economic elites) drives more revolutions than equality. If we continue to be a country where the only ones who do well are the richest, where our elected officials listen solely to their rich donors, and where hard work means nothing, we will see a rebellion.
Wilbur Ross and others did, during the Trump inspired government shut down, make statements equivalent to telling government workers to eat cake. This tells all of us that we are not considered important, that our needs will be ignored, and that neither party is interested in representing us. (The Democrats have not been effective when it comes to improving things for working Americans.)
As Brandeis said, "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." What do we want for ourselves and our children's children?
132
@hen3ry
Your are wrong. I escaped Soviet Union 30 years ago. The Idea to take money from rich and transfer to poor is not working and never will work. Every
body became poor under socialism.
2
@EvaL, that's the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union failed as a communist state and it was not truly a socialist state either. Sweden and Denmark are socialist states with a good dose of capitalism built in. They work.
8
This is a scary piece, because it can be so true. Democrats need to walk a very fine line of promoting social programs while avoiding a Socialist label. I have no idea how they can do that, I hope they have. We do need healthcare for all, but it needs to be done in a way that wont bankrupt the system - maybe a family of 4 instead of paying $1200/month into an insurance plan could pay (I'm just making up a number for illustrative purposes) $500/month to the USA; and additional (say) $150/month could cover non-medicare items. College students need to be able to pay back loans at the same rates as every other borrower does; or a better system needs to be enacted.
2
I am having a hard time understanding why USA can’t or should not invest in the health and education of citizens—like every other first world nation on earth. But spending trillions on a bloated military industrial complex—no questions asked.
1
@LesISmore
Right. If Trump is such a great deal maker then why doesn’t he get all the insurance carriers in one room and say, “I have 320 million customers; who can give me the best deal?”
His latest target, "socialism," needs clarifying for people. Such as the fact that Social Security and Medicare, both institutionalized now, were decried in exactly the same way --as the end of America as we know it--before they became law, became familiar, and became untouchable. But then, so were public school, child labor laws, and the 40-hour week. Democrats need to point out that when the current White House occupant screams about socialism, he is threatening these things.
201
@BarryNash
Agreed - the response should be that Trump is attacking Medicare and Social Security.
28
@Greg
Indeed, part of the beauty of its design is to help people too dumb enough to put money away when young and healthy. That's the definition of safety net. It helps elderly preserve some dignity, and enables them to supplement meager assets.
Your "Homer" avatar seems about perfect.
34
@Greg
Another libertarian ostrich who has no clue he's part of a larger society that built the civilization that he personally profits from.
Move to your dream country, Greg...and enjoy the luxurious Somalian lifestyle.
36
As we all know by now, Trump’s approach to the world is to criticize, insult, and threaten friend and foe alike. And he also has a penchant for applying nasty names to his targets. It’s keep it simple for the simple folk who can’t handle anything complicated. Using the word socialism acts as the bell did for Pavlov’s dogs. I’m sure if these people were made aware that social security, medicare, unemployment insurance, veterans’ benefits, etc. are examples of socialism, they would have a hard time reconciling that these programs made America a better place and have been around for a long time. The rise in the appeal of social policies has been Trump and Company’s actions that have enlarged the income disparity between rich and poor through corruption, greed, changes in the tax laws that vastly benefit the wealthy, driving millions out of basic medical coverage, opening up the destruction of the environment to the advantage of the mining and fossil fuel industry, and so many more acts that have benefited the top .01 percent of the population. It’s true that America is unlikely to become a 100% socialist country, but it will (and already has) adapted many programs that benefit the majority. It’s also true, but not mentioned by the president, that America will not become a fascist country either.
3
"... Venezuela’s [...] condemning the “socialist policies” that have reduced the country “into a state of abject poverty and despair,” …"
"... alarmed by new calls to adopt socialism …"
Oy vey.
We need to see individual-1's Wharton transcripts. Am I supposed to believe that this uneducated non-reading buffoon knows what socialism is? And where it is actually practiced?
11
If universal health care, infrastructure repair, a sensible tax code, well-funded public education, affordable universities and a social safety net that takes care of everyone is socialism, then I'm a socialist. And if Republicans are so hell-bent on limiting government intrusion in our lives, they can stop telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies; they can stop telling all of us whom we can or cannot love; and they can stop trying to ram their brand of religion down our throats.
10
"The threat of socialism ... could become the kind of rhetorical touchstone of his re-election campaign that sounding the alarm about 'criminal illegal aliens' was in 2016."
It already is. So what will the NY Times do about it? Let the GOP damn Democrats with a scary-sounding label that most people don't really understand? Or call them on it every time, reminding readers what socialism really is and whether the Democrat in question is actually proposing socialist policies?
Yes, I am still bitter about 2016 and the Times' "But her emails!" while Trump went around the country whipping up racists, anti-Semites and slandering Hillary Clinton.
3
It might help readers were Mr. Tackett to define “socialism” as it was perceived in the 1930’s and how democratic socialism is defined today. It is my understanding the two perceptions/definitions are different in terms of economic “ownership” or how wealth is regulated and distributed, but I am not an expert.
The US has had some social program since soon after its inception as a democratic Republic. If memory serves, one of the first was a type of medical care program for veterans of the Revolutionay War.
In the 1930’s, post-WWI and during the Great Depression, the US did not adopt 1930’s socialism (a contained ownership of production and distribution), but the government developed a mature social conscience toward the dire needs of the governed (the common good) and made essentially government run social compacts with capitalistic wealth since then - government regulation of financial institutions and polluting industries, for example, are socialistic in terms of protecting the governed from fraud and from poisoning the environment.
In modern America, there has been a rich history of some form of economic socialism within economic capitalism. Taxing the wealthiest to solve problems society cannot solve on its own is not pure socialism as defined in some texts but modern democratic socialism would appear to be reliant on capitalistc wealth.
1
This article makes the same mistake many are making in the media these days. When those on the left use the term socialism or democratic socialism they are not referring to Marxism or communism. They are not talking about state ownership of the means of production. They definitely do not consider socialism and capitalism to be opposites.
What they mean is programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. They mean a social safety net. They mean affordable healthcare for all. They mean, as Bernie Sanders once put it, "a government that works for all and not just the few."
Trump and many Republicans would have you think that those on the left using the word socialism want to discard capitalism, but that couldn't be further from the truth. They are ardent capitalists who believe in free markets. What they want is relief from unbridled capitalism that creates a tiny population of winners at the top and a huge underclass of losers at the bottom making near-minimum wage.
3
Fearing socialism is laughable. You might as well fear the millennials and the generations that succeed them. With a broken safety net, reduced real wages, a dearth of job opportunities, and saddled by six-figure student debt, the next generations are likely to embrace a greater degree of socialism simply because of the circumstances that have been heaped upon them.
Frightened right wingers might try to a little more to help the next generations and spend a little less time fear mongering if they really want to address the issue. Yelling at the problem won't make it go away. Nor will continuing to embrace policies that enable the 1% to drain ever more from the coffers of our economy.
15
You already have a corporate welfare state: socialism for the Rich and capitalism for the poor. Wealthy corporations and individuals get a free ride. Everyone else pays full fare.
6
Given the survey results that Columbia Law school found about the majority of Americans:
New York, May 29, 2002 � Almost two-thirds of Americans think Karl Marx�s maxim, �From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs� was or could have been written by the framers and included in the Constitution, according to a nationwide survey commissioned by Columbia Law School.
Emperor Trumpius, may well be comfortable that he can propagandize “socialism” as a scary and uncomfortable ‘word’ — but he may not be able to anywhere as easily tar the concept of ‘economic fairness’ for we the people as being anything but a good thing — as FDR, Ike, JFK, LBJ, and even Obama found.
Faux-Emperor Trumpius, who is coming more frequently to ‘look like an Emperor himself’ by many Americans, might want to start being a bit scared that ‘we the American people’ are putting 2 + 2 together and stating to think (like our founding fathers, Minute Men, patriots, even the real & original Tea Parties, and individual truth-tellers like, Thomas Paine, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin, Washington, et al.) that the most dangerous thing is having ‘our country’ acting like an EMPIRE.
In fact, if Tom had the “Common Sense” and taken the paine to edit Pat’s rallying-cry it might well have more completely been:
“Give us Liberty (from Empire), or Give us Death”
Justin du Rivage deeply researched, definitively proved, and wrote the history of our orginal one, the American “Revolution Against Empire”
2
Socialism for the rich ONLY.
Bread crumbs, coal, propaganda, pollution, poverty, guns, bullets, forced birthing, good old-time religion, and early funerals for the non-rich.
"Free-DUMB !"
Trump-GOP 2020
26
American socialism:
Police
fire-fighters
Social Security
sewer maintenance
meat inspection
pensions
minimum wage laws
education
schools
teachers
the military
veteran's programs
libraries
roads
the US government
health care
dams
bridges
.... you catch the drift?
As you go through your day today, please notice everything that the "commons" has created.
And pay attention to those street lights.
Some of you are getting pretty sloppy on running the reds.
21
The biggest socialist welfare program in America is the federal income tax code. It is a corrupt barbarian pirate license to steal.
The tax scheme gives deductions, credits, subsidies and lower tax rates. But only for certain industries, individuals, transactions, sources of income, business entity structures, contracts and securities favored by lobbyists showering money on elected executive, legislative and judicial branch officials at every level.
The corrupt crony capitalist corporate plutocrat oligarch welfare kings and queens opposed Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid as socialist communist Bolshevik plots from the Kremlin.
America has a President who was selected by Russian Czar wannabe Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.
11
Socialists are the enemy! But don't worry about Putin. He's a great guy.
9
If the Trump-supporting cretins want to get all charged up about "socialism," there's nothing we can do about it . . . except, as usual, register and vote.
4
Social services are Villains?
That's as big a joke as our fake president.
13
Yesiree - here in The Land of The Free (old, rich, white men) we reserve our socialism for the pluto-corporatocracy. Social the costs, Privatize the profits, by yar'. Capitalism (predatory, that is) rocks!
5
Ho hum. . .Republicans have been foaming at the mouth over "socialism" since the 8-hr workday and then, later, The New Deal.
* A living wage: Socialism!
* Health care for all. Socialism! Heath care is a commodity and if you can't pay, you don't get any. This is why they keep trying to take it away from us.
* Clean air and water: Socialism. If God intended for you to have clean air and water, he'd have made you rich.
* Climate change: Socialist plot to subvert man's right to profit.
* Respect for women: Socialist plot to emasculate white christian men. Just ask Bret Kavanaugh.
24
Trump heads the largest socialist institution in the United States, the U.S. Military - Army, Navy, Marine Corps. Really.
5
NYTImes, please don’t amplify trump’s position by constantly touting it without a counter narrative, and don’t make the same mistake you made with Clinton’s Emails.
10
“The idea of throwing the socialist thing out there politically is pretty crafty ..........."
Nonsense!
This socialism thing is not new - it's the same fear inducer that has been made by Republicans every four years and no one buys it except the same ignorant Fox news viewers.
If Trump has nothing better than this to combat the likes of AOC, he's a goner.
3
Watching Bernie Sanders cry during the state of the union after Trump spanked him and his ideology was joyous. Clumping all the Dems into Sanders boat is fun to watch. I can’t wait for all them to go on the record saying, “I am not a socialist. “
Which one of those women frightens you the most?
1
Democrats could label extreme right wingers fascists with no trouble and point out the intermingling of corporations and the state in fascist countries.
8
"The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not,so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities."
--July 1, 1854 Abraham Lincoln our 1st Socialist President!!!
6
This democratic attempt to present socialism as a viable option to this country after it's failed and so many others is villainous, call it what it is.
The fact that the New York Times wants to defend it is sickening
2
Fact? Where?
Hmm.
So, socialism is bad for us. Interesting.
So, what exactly does Trump think his huge 1.5 trillion federal tax cut actually is?
It's socialism- for the him- and the wealthiest ten percent taxpayers. The rest of us pay for it. For them.
Again, interesting.
14
The left needs to own the word (socialist). Its a perfectly good and useful word that gets taken out of our vocab when the right does their negative propagandizing on it. Please celebrate and embrace the word. It is NOT the same word as communist. It just isn't.
2
Talk to any Trump supporter. (I have). They don't know what socialism is. The GOP wants people to be ignorant on this subject. Apparently it's working among the right.
16
It's working among the left, too, if you can't stop calling them by their branding statement.
Quit building their brand.
Quit being complicit.
Just call them by their name.
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, it's time for the "Reds under the Beds".
The USA already has the Greatest Socialism policies for Big Corporations and the Worst Capitalism polices for Employees.
The NYT and the rest of the press have to start tying the Socialism "tag" to US big untaxed Corporations before Trumpet it sticks to the overtaxed rest of us.
5
Oh no. I can see Trump calling for another Un-American Activities Committee to investigate the loyalties of private citizens and public employees. That worked real well the first time around. Roy Cohn was Trump's lawyer for 13 years, so Trump learned a thing or two from the master. Cohn once claimed that Trump called him "15 or 20 times a day" (even then, Trump had lots of time on his hands and not much to do). We can only imagine how Cohn regaled Trump with tales of the good ol' days of McCarthy and hunting down commies. Cohn will forever be associated with disrespect for truth, honor and the law, and was a mentor and life model for Trump. Hunting down socialists would be Trump's most fitting tribute to his mentor.
11
Ah the usual blather about socialism as the billionaires laugh all the way to the bank.
12
As a Republican, I hope the newly elected class really pounds the drum on socialism, yes, that's the best thing for the Democratic Party, go forward!
@There
While the GOP sits on the gold toilets of Trumpism.
When they flush, where do you think it goes? Do you even care?
1
@There
Your 2nd comment on socialism in this thread. Please educate yourself on the differences between socialism as practiced in Venezuela and socialism as practiced here in the US for well over a century before making any more comments.
1
"Socialist" is the "infidel" of the Fox News crowd. It is a meaningless word on the face of it out of the mouths that are shouting it. It is a misunderstood and misapplied word parroted by the children and mental children repeating it on social media. When we live in a world completely run by a handful of billionaires with no Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, labor protections, and healthcare then Trump supporters can complain all about the myriad evils of socialism as they warm their hands over the garbage can fire.
5
Only reason they go with "socialist" is that half the base can't spell "communist." One M or or two?
1
@Lorem Ipsum
They have been conflated for so long that many, maybe most people think they are the same thing.
The label "socialist" has long been used against Democrats. The George WH Bush campaign found a photo of then student Bill Clinton posing in front of the Kremlin during his time in England as a Rhodes Scholar and argued he wasn't a tourist but surely a socialist learning from the Soviets !
Nancy Pelosi is often called socialist . Her husband is a very successful investment banker making money as a CAPITALIST !
3
"the supposed threat of creeping socialism"
Proof that Trump spends a lot of time reading the NY Times. He didn't mention saintly Denmark, but he didn't have to.
2
Moving tax rates to 70%, taking over certain industries is socialism folks. Democrats and the media are already protesting that the socialist label doesn’t apply to them. But what are they afraid of—the label or their own ideas? The biggest political story of 2019 is that Democrats are embracing policies that include government control of ever-larger chunks of the private American economy.
Merriam-Webster defines socialism as “any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.”
If you want to support the democratic platform then just state what it is, socialism. Make your case and let the voters decide.
1
@Just 4 Play
"Moving tax rates to 70%...is socialism, folks."
The top federal marginal tax rate was 70% or above from 1936 to 1980. Must've been quite a few Republican Administrations, Senates and Congresses during that 44-year span that were actually "Socialists."
1
@Just 4 Play
Conservatives have been trained by their preferred propaganda outlets to think of the term "socialist" as an alternate for "liberal" only more "evil". This is completely inaccurate, but useful as a propaganda technique.
I have never heard a single Democrat EVER advocate for state ownership of the means of production and distribution. And no Democratic politician has ever advocated for that. Obama, H Clinton, B Clinton, LBJ et al were capitalists from top to bottom.
Capitalism isn't perfect but it has been better than any other system at generating wealth for the largest number of people over the several hundred years. It happens to be broken at the present moment and needs to be fixed, but that is another long, complex discussion for another day.
It's a marginal rate that you are in no danger of facing. No danger whatsoever.
An important benchmark in measuring Democratic Socialism vs. Capitalism are infant mortality rates. The US ranks 56, the European Union ranks 34, France 13, Spain 14, Italy 16, United Kingdom 41, Cuba 45 and Canada 46. Source:The World Fact Book, Estimate for 2017, CIA.
7
If you're not social, you're anti-social. That certainly describes today's GOP. Capitalists like socialism just fine when it comes to socializing the losses they inflict, while they reap the gains. They stripmine, we pay for recovery. They spill oil, we pay for cleanup. They inflict tobacco addiction, we pay for treating cancers. They create opioid addiction, we pay for treatment. Oh sure, sometimes a court forces them to cough up some tens of millions, but it's never more than a scratch on the billions they raked in. A pox on the vultures. I say, soak them. They won't be hurting if we leave them with a measly billion.
16
He's an expert at using propaganda messaging and we should pay careful attention to the words he uses. This man, with his many proven ties to Russia, throws around the term socialism to attack those who wish to investigate those ties. It's Orwellian and frightening the lengths to which he purposefully misuses language to hide the truth. We need to understand his manipulation and pathology, rise above it, and then together move forward and past him to deal with the real issues that we face.
3
That "We resolve" statement sounds like some ancient English king announcing a royal proclamation.
1
A little bit of American history--there have been American socialist parties since the 1870s or earlier with Eugene Debs the U.S. labor leader, socialist and pacifist leading a large socialist party through WWI, mostly in the North and Midwest. Their demands included regulating the large monopolies, helping the worker and small farmer, and pubic programs including publicly owned banks. Reactionary and big business and the rich were threatened of course and red baited them. What energized the socialists was the extreme concentration of wealth and income and exploitation of working people. Not much has changed in the U.S. since our capitalist system has morphed into monopoly capitalism threatening the wellbeing of the lower 90-percent and with climate change, our planet.
2
Trump — like 85% of folks who flap their arms about “socialists” — don’t even know what the term means. But it’s scary and, well, it gets arms flapping. That seems to be the primary objective of an administration that has few competencies beyond media stunts. So much for progress. So much for thoughtful policy making. So much for The People.
2
Someone in this article seems confused. Perhaps it is Professor Kazin at Georgetown. He refers to the American people's equating democratic socialism with communism, in one breath, and then refers to a shift in public opinion where Americans view socialism more favorably, in the next breath.
Or perhaps the author of the article got mixed up in writing it.
In any case, it's good if the Democratic party will provide a strongly progressive alternative to a somewhat fascist Republican party in our elections. We don't need a choice between a fascist-lite party and a moderately conservative one. Give the American people an actual choice for once. And I happen to think they know the difference between Bernie Sanders and Stalin.
Trump knows we are coming for him. He has betrayed the working class vote that got him elected. He knows that. They know that. He is scared because he knows what is waiting for him during the campaign. The people. People of all colors. People who want the freedom to live without that specter of exploitation defining their economic opportunities. His phony economists point to the trickle-down theory to justify their position that capitalism works. However, the billionaires are cheap. They do not spend money. Do billionaires ever leave the list of Forbes 100? Despite Bill Gates's philanthropy, why is it that he always has more money than the last year? Billionaires don't invest in goods, services, and businesses that are risky. They don't have to. They bet in sure things, on good terms, and have rigged the economy; in such a way that it functions more live the vacuum cleaner economics than trickle-down theory. The people who voted him in power didn't vote for him bc he's a racist bigot, they voted for him to fight the establishment-and instead of fighting, he has revitalized DC with a more putrid swamp than before (can you look at Steve Mnuchin and think of any word besides swamp-creature?) The people want opportunities. The billionaires horde their money, halting circulation and economic opportunity for the people--and giving them more leverage to exploit the poor. The people want a better type of freedom; not one to be exploited but of opportunity. WE R COMING
Trump: the master of first creating, then marshalling, the fears of the ignorant over a bogeyman who doesn't exist.
Or, in this case, barely exists. Of 535 members of Congress, I count 2 socialists. That's not even half of 1%. Their views are seen as extreme by most Democrats, most Democratic lawmakers and by the Democratic leadership.
If trump could just convince his followers that most illegal immigrants and asylum seekers are commies, he'd have an even more effective gimmick going.
Mussolini, as well, targeted Socialists as "enemies" of the state in a largely successful effort to unite the people of Italy in support of him inorder to consolidate his power.
I am not saying that Trump is anything like Mussolini, but he does consistently deploy the tactics of a wannabe dictator.
4
The one thing about Trump is that he paints everyone, not just Socialists, as villains.
If you're not one of his supporters then your his enemy, fake news or what ever new name he comes up with.
He is a person who doesn't believe that anyone is as good as him and who has an ego to match.
2020 can't get here fast enough.
2
The only Americans seeking to benefit from Socialism are corporate capitalists being subsidized by tax reform that has redistributed/shifted ( where it did not outright eliminate it) the tax burden away from corporations, especially multinationals. And, who can dispute that the government bailouts to the financial and automotive arent socialism, because it most definitely was not a correction by the myth or operation of the free market? Contrary to Trump, the dependency on government contracts, too-big-to-fail government safety nets for profit-oriented commercial enterprises, and the tax subsidization of corporate business organizations contradicts the risk-taking image informing the myth of entrepreneurialism and free markets. For today, the titan of industry & commerce has given way to government assisted, government protected, passive investors.
The question is not whether Trump's assertions are a correct description of the Democratic Party or a fair accounting of Democratic Socialism. The question is whether these attacks would work electorally. For all progressive candidates, save one, the honest response can be that progressives are searching to save capitalism from it's own excesses and thus they are not Socialists. In the case of Senator Sanders, who in actuality is more a Social Democrat then a Democratic Socialist, this response is not available. The Senator was able to gain attention for his run against Secretary Clinton by calling himself a Socialist and thus if he were to be nominated it is a fair ( and dismal ) prospect that he would have to distinguish his sense of Socialism from that we see in Venezuela or in regard to other historical examples. This would surely be a great burden for Senator Sanders and a gift to Trump's re-election prospects.
@Greg Jones
The cry of "Venezuela !" is the "Benghazi !" bamboozle circa 2019; pure Oscar Mayer baloney.
Venezuela was done in by malevolent dictatorship.
When the Trump-GOP cries "Venezuela !", what they really are saying to Americans is this:
"Be very, very afraid of affordable healthcare and the better healthcare outcomes that the rest of the rich world enjoys as a basic human right".
Nice GOPeople.
15
@Socrates I agree that this comparison is fatuous. My question is whether you really want a candidate who is going to have to spend time distinguishing their policies from those of Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro. Moreover, we might well ask whether American voters will be able to really comprehend such ideological distinctions. You may think that voters could see through such baloney, I am none so sure.
1
If being a “socialist” country means everyone from infants to elders have access to quality healthcare, that the social safety net is secure and people in America are not going hungry, that there is free or inexpensive access to a college education, and that our roads, parks, beaches are fully funded, then count me in.
America should be defined by the collective health of its people and services and not by the processes that narrowly define us as “this type of government “ versus “that one.” What we have now is a struggling, unhealthy country where the few have too much and the many have too little. That’s not America to me and millions of others. When we define America as being about “capitalism” we advance the very interests that have led to our current situation of unfair inequality. It’s time for change. As is usually the case, what we fear most is what we most desperately need.
13
It is right that greed is good for business, but excessive greed is destructive to business, the economy, and the nation.
What the issue is that the wealthy and business do not want to share productivity and inflationary gains or the rewards of capitalism.
Also, people do not understand the difference between crating a higher civilization and that of a socialist structure.
Adding to the strain are the tax reductions of the past 75 years and regressive tax policies that have placed the tax burden on middle class families and put a financial strain on all levels of government, particularly municipalities.
What trump and Republicans intend to do is cover their actions to attain a despotic oligarchy to protect their wealth and for t&eir few by continuing to steal productivity and inflationary gains and socialize their costs onto taxpayers.
The Super Fund is an example, by which before Reagan the fund was paid by industrial polluters, he change that so now all taxpayers pay into the fund, though individual taxpayers are not responsible for the pollution.
So in fact business are socializing their business costs onto taxpayers.
The only, and true socialists are business.
Free education and Medicare For All are only the rewards of capitalism.
The wealthy and business will only be harming business, the economy, and the nation by not sharing productivity and inflationary gains and socializing their business costs onto taxpayers
2
The Republicans have taken an almost consistent stance against any kind of social democracy since Roosevelt (I think at some point one or another candidate for president actually endorsed Social Security before WWII; Eisenhower instituted SS disability on his watch). They abhorred Medicare from the beginning and, with a few exceptions from Nixon and Bush II (who gave us drug coverage without a mechanism for funding it or controlling drug prices through it), they have consistently tried to end the program.
Republicans have become the party of tax less, spend more. They have a collective economic IQ of -50. So Trump campaigning against any form of social democracy is as predictable as Marie Antoinette suggesting substituting cake for bread to feed the starving masses.
We can't get Republicans out of office in the French Revolutionary manner, but we can vote them out. We made a start in 2018; let's keep up the good work in 2020.
3
The future of the US depends on the Democrats countering Trump’s strategy carefully, wisely and with a unified message.
3
Michael Kazin’s assertion that there really hasn’t been a socialist movement of any size or influence in the US since the 1930’s highlights, once again, how clueless and conspiratorial Individual-1 and his Faux News “kitchen cabinet” really are. On the other hand, were we ever to actually gravitate toward honest-to-goodness socialism, we might join the likes of Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway, who perennially lead the world in quality-of-life and happiness studies and surveys. Meanwhile, the United States, with its consistently high poverty, infant-mortality rates, opioid crises, student debt, income-inequality and ever-increasing social and political divisions, is fortunate to crack the top twenty of such yearly rankings. Since the advent of the Trump regime, even our standing as a genuine democracy has declined, so that we now languish down among the likes of Croatia and Latvia, as opposed to near the top with our former allies, England and Germany. Whether it’s his “warnings” about the Central Park Five, the so-called birther movement, Chinese hoaxes, 400-pound-people sitting on beds or socialist fear-mongering, Trump is like the boy who cried wolf, whose every utterance warrants just as little attention.
3
The right is frightened of AOC. Through the use of social media she has educated her young and old followers about how the middle class was born and destroyed. FDR started the social security system, unemployment insurance, the minimum wage and federal work programs, Socialism at its best. Why did FDR do it? He was pushed from below from people that identified from the one Communist Party, the two Socialist party’s and the unionists. He understood in order to save capitalism from its own destructive nature he had to give the people something back. How did he pay for it? He raised taxes on the wealthiest Americans and corporations to the 70% on the highest tax bracket. Hence the middle class was born, he won four presidencies. He later said his greatest achievement was saving capitalism. After his death the capitalist seized on a divide and conquer strategy, first go after the communist, then the socialists, then the unionists, it worked very well. The Taft Hartley act of 1947 was quickly put in place limiting the powers of unions and the political parties that their leaders could belong too. The corporate oligarchs wanted their power and money back, hence the decline of the middle class. Capitalism in its present form is in the last throes of life. They are now consuming all smaller companies and the middle. In fact they have infiltrated government and are dismantling it from within and enriching themselves on what was once the peoples pride and property, Via privatization.
5
Can anyone please explain to me why the Republicans have successfully promoted (what I consider) truly "loony" (and fiscally and militarily dangerous) policies, while we Dems fear being accused of "lurching left" whenever we timidly offer sane and humane policies?
Do we, for instance, really prefer totting up an enormous national debt to relieve millionaires of paying fair taxes to raising that debt (let's be honest) to provide all fellow citizens adequate medical care? safe bridges? unflooded coastlines?
Thank you.
Harriet (slightly pink in San Francisco)
2
Hope the Republicans finally admit that he is not on their side, either, and does not have any commitment to their party. He has been riding on their coattails and benefiting from their constituencies all the while representing only himself. But perhaps it will take a few Republican congresspeople who are not overwhelmingly pusillanimous to go first.
1
Painting socialists as villains is like painting snow white. The left ruins everything it touches, whether overseas or in the United States. Not a single world-assisting innovative product has ever come from a socialist country, or even one with a serious leftward economy. People from formerly communist nations loathe their prior systems and are the biggest supporters of competitive capitalism. In the United States, the left is wrecking everything from the social sciences and humanities at the universities -- grievance studies, anyone? -- to children's and young adult literature (I read about the recent Amelie Wen Zhao affair in the NYT this week, and winced), to the Boy Scouts, to high school sports, to favoring equity of outcome over equity of opportunity. Medicare for all? No, it will be Medicaid for all. Tax rates of 70% for the rich? They'll go elsewhere (and I'm nowhere near rich). The only bad thing about this is that it took Donald Trump to get the country to sit up and take notice.
1
@Observer of the Zeitgeist
You need to observe not rehearse. The role of the Democratic party since FDR has been cleaning up Republican messes and managing the economy for maximum prosperity. Regan got us into debt, W squandered Clinton's gains and Trump is destroying the progress made under Obama.
4
Yes, because Canada and the rest of the civilized industrial world are such he’ll holes.
Universal Healthcare and education will not destroy capitalism. Neither will higher tax rates on the wealthy. And taxes may replace your health premiums.
But one thing will destroy the system. And that is the increased concentration of wealth. That will lead to aristocracy or revolution.
1
@Steve in Chicago, yes, Trump is destroying the progress of Obama, with the lowest African-American and Latino-American unemployment rates in history, rising wages, and push back against the leftward lurch of the Democratic party into the party of speech as violence, 51 genders, I'm-a-victim-you're-a-victim, identity uber alles, and feckless foreign policy.
1
I feel as though anyone who is triggered by attacks on socialism is already voting Trump regardless. I don't see a broader appeal in the message. At least among my contemporaries, the message won't gain any traction. We understand that democratic socialism is distinct from socialism. Not even AOC is advocating the elimination of market based systems. Ergo, no socialism.
In my opinion, the conservative strategists are wrong about why the message might gain traction. Trump is dog-whistling about the democratic part of democratic socialism. Democratic socialists are committed to little-d democracy much more than public economy. As we know, representative government is anathema to GOP power and control. A more democratic nation means a diminished GOP. A democratic movement supported by popular social initiatives is a death sentence.
Trump is trying to remind the republican voter that democratic socialists are a threat to minority rule. That's the campaign message. It might work in those few states which matter. However, Trump has clearly abandoned the Millennial/Gen-Z cohort. That's a problem for Trump. Even assuming a relatively modest 15 percent turnout, at least 60% are expected to vote against Trump. That's roughly a 10 point difference nationwide from Millennials alone.
I'm not much for betting but I sure wouldn't bet on Trump. The electoral college is the only thing that has an outside chance of saving his presidency. Yelling at socialists is preaching to the converted.
3
Rich American capitalists have spent the last 60 years brainwashing the American people into believing taxation, especially taxation on them and their capital, is Socialism; and, that Socialism is equal to Fascism. It is Fascism that we need to fear, not Socialism.
America was not a socialist country in the 1940's and 1950's when our top tax rate was 91%, we were not a socialist country in the 1960's and 1970's when our top tax rate was 70%. And, we will not become a socialist country if/when we return the top marginal tax rates to those levels that produced the greatest economic growth in our nation's history and the first middle class in the history of the modern world.
3
There is arguably an exception to your argument, albeit a technical one. During WWII, the entire economy was devoted to the war effort. Given that the government became the buyer of such a large amount of manufactured goods, and consumer items were rationed, we were arguably socialist.
And that socialism remade the economy and drove a 70 plus year expansion.
I am willing to bet my entire net worth that if you approached 100 conservatives on the street and asked each of them to define "socialism", not a single one would give an accurate answer.
The Democratic Party has never been and never will be a "socialist" party. No Democratic President or Presidential candidate (including Obama, H Clinton, B Clinton, LBJ, Carter, ad infinitum) has been a socialist.
Fox News and the entire right wing propaganda machine has been tossing this term around so casually and so inaccurately for decades that virtually all conservatives now see it as simply an alternate word for "liberal", only more "evil".
The ironic reality is, however, that AI and robotic automation are very likely going to render capitalism obsolete within the next 30 years (perhaps less) and some form of socialist system may be the most equitable solution to the problem, yet NEITHER party in the US has given more than a passing thought to this looming and rapidly approaching day of reckoning.
1
There is an immense difference between a country that is fully socialistic--as was the case during the Cold war in Russia and China--and a country that is partially socialistic --as is the case today in the U.S.A. (e.g., Social Security, Medicare ,Pell Grants , Food Stamps are all popular here and are all examples of Socialism; amend that to "Democratic Socialism") .
Trump's attack on Socialism is similar to his attack on Mexicans at the start of his campaign: he shouted to his enthused crowds, "they (the Mexican government) are sending us rapists and murderers"--implying that almost all migrants were very bad. Now Trump is following the Republican philosophy of attacking all aspects of Socialism. We know that the party (including Reagan and Ryan) all wanted to cut Social Security if not to eliminate it entirely and the Republicans managed to change a retirement allowance based on a guaranteed income (defined benefits plan) to one based on the wishy-washy 401K , which too often leaves the older person who needs to retire impoverished -- only with forced deprivation able to retire.
The World Economic Forum studied the degree of happiness of citizens around the world--satisfaction with their lives and government--and Denmark, Finland, and Norway were in the top spots, while the U.S.A. was down at number 18. The three top winners were all Socialistic. But the government there as here allows private ownership of businesses , except that the tax rate is very high.
1
The GOP Chairwoman, Ronna McDaniel, has been using this buzzword for months now on Twitter. It will definitely be the GOP new fear tactic for any Democratic candidate who wants to address issues like income inequality and our overpriced and inefficient healthcare system. I think the Democrats should flip it and call out the Republicans for creating corporate welfare or corporate socialism for years. They should call out Republicans for turning corporations into people (Citizens United) and giving them more privileges than actual people. That isn't capitalism, that is pure greed.
1
The most bizarre statement from Trump during his State of the Union seems to have slipped by without much notice or comment.
"Let us support working families by supporting paid family leave."
Imagine that. A Republican president while excoriating "socialism" offers up a new entitlement program paid for by employers through their contributions to state unemployment plans.
Or perhaps he imagines Mexico will pay for it.
1
Another example of Americans ignorance of what socialism actually is in the real world. All of the economies of the advanced countries are variations of "mixed economies", i.e., market based with government imposed restrictions and controls, almost without fail inuring to the benefit of the populace as a whole, rather than to benefit the few, as "socialism" in a real sense works here. Americans lack both a theoretical and a practical understanding of socialism, far more than any other educated populace in any other country in the world that I have been in. In the European countries I have actually queried leaders of Socialist political parties as to their belief in and adherence to "Marxist Leninist" ideas (as propounded by the former Soviet Union) and I have been looked at quizzically and met with an unequivocal "No, we don't follow those ideas" response. To reiterate, Americans don't know what socialism is in the real world, are manipulated and controlled by those of great power and influence in their own society who impose their own distorted and self serving "definition" for their own selfish and greedy reasons, and are once again driven by fear and ignorance. It would have been nice if the writer of the article could have elaborated a bit upon socialism in the real world. Instead they simply leave many readers to simply figure it out on their own. If socialism is so terrible, then why are rate of upward social mobility far greater in all of these other countries?
2
Roy Cohn returns, and is smiling. “Are you now, or have you ever been a...socialist?!” Old white America will hear this along with Stephen Miller’s, “Are you now or have you ever been...brown?!” That should terrify the heartlanders all right. Socialists and brown people (some with prayer rugs) are always coming to take away old white Americans’ “freedom”. Who still buys this nonsense?
8
I will not support any candidate without a Medicare for all plan and without a plan to increase taxes on the wealthy, including corporations.
123
@Mr Peabody Yes, Yes, Yes, Though beware most of the candidates who SAY that now they are for Medicare for all, ( because the public polls mandate that they do) have also muttered under their breath or to their aids that they would be willing for something less. I do not trust anyone but Bernie to actually do it. Sorry but if you listen carefully even Elizabeth who is so strong in so many areas has left herself a way of to back step. Afraid of the insurance companies? And Corey Booker who voted against us getting drugs from Canada which are much cheaper and are originally made here said it was because of Safety concerns??? We make the drugs and charge huge amounts here but sell them to Canada and they would sell them to us for less, but somehow Corey deemed them unsafe???? But then the drug companies have paid him the most money. Get the picture, so do you honestly believe he would really do Medicare for all? I know Bernie is hated by the powers that be, but he is hated for a very good reason, he cannot be bought. And he will not cave in.
11
@Mr Peabody Medicare is not free or universal healthcare if you have other incomes. It has cost, copays, out of pocket, etc. It pays so poor you need a supplement to make it a decent plan.
https://www.medicare.gov/your-medicare-costs/medicare-costs-at-a-glance
1
I’m with you.
3
The system that we currently have is socialism for the rich. Just look at the subsidies being given to Amazon, Foxconn \or all the sports stadiums financed with tax money. During the great recession we bailed out the banks, but not the people whose mortgages they foreclosed on. Government programs that help working people, whether the 40 hour week, Social Security, Medicare or the minimum wage were denounced as socialism when first introduced, but are now overwhelmingly supported by the public.
76
@Bruce A
Bruce, and as applies to the important issue of “taxes”, which all Americans complain about but few really understand — the greatest tax on America and average Americans is the hidden corporate ‘negative externality cost dumping’ tax that some deceitful corporations, which can only make their (false profits) by dumping smoke in our lungs, pollution in our air, weapons around the world, and CDOs, CDSs, and ‘creatively destructive’ schemes in of our financial system are the Taxes that we don’t see.
I wrote my first internet article 25 years ago on a Vermont web-site about these little-recognized ‘Negative externality cost dumping’ Taxes.
7
The tactic of smearing a democrat as a socialist is nothing new, so i don't see why any credit should be given to Trump here. The GOP called Obama a socialist for 8 years for the ACA, a healthcare system that mandated everyone to do business with for-profit insurance companies.
When people my age think of socialism, they don't feel threatened- in fact, it makes them feel optimistic. It's hard not to flirt with the idea of socialism when capitalism paved the road to Trump.
85
@Greg
You are perhaps dreaming of "socialist" utopia in Denmark? Denmark is not utopia. It is not socialist. To quote Danish prime minister Rasmussen "Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy." Would you be willing to take on taxes comparable to Danish taxes to pay for your benefits? Even middle class Danes pay high taxes close to 30%. Their vat tax is about 20%. They pay about $7 a gallon for gas. You would pay a 100% tax on a new car. Are you willing to pay your fair share for your socialist dream here in the US? My guess is not.
can't tell what your age is from tour post, Greg, but the Socialist bogeyman has been a standard trope on the Republican right since before WWI. their basic premise is to conflate different things in order to confuse and frighten people. the main things the right tries to confuse are Communism, Socialism, and dictatorship. usually, as in the case of Venezuela, the complaints are all about kleptocratic dictatorships, but the label is Socialism. younger people in America don't seem to take this bait as eagerly as people used to because they recognize our systemmis abusing them, but who knows? maybe as they grow older they will be more susceptible to this tired old line. it's bread and circuses. people who feel they have more to gain than to lose by shifting our nation from the worship of unbridled capitalism don't quake in their boots at the very mention of the tem Socialism; people who feel they might lose their financial and social status think Socialism is some kind of plague that will destroy their lives and families.
7
@pamela I think i speak for many members of my generation when I say yes, I would honestly consider that. I, like many of my cohorts, are drowning in debt- debt we incurred to get an education so we could later fight to get a decent paying job. Debt we incur from medical expenses related to our insane and unjust profit-driven healthcare system. Debt incurred trying to afford decent housing. We are up to our ears in debt, and we still have people dying of easily preventable diseases, going homeless, etc. Either way, I'm paying too much, so I'll take the option that is more likely to lead to a more equitable society.
8
We already have it. Local, state, federal governments, laws, courts, police, military spending, transportation spending, unemployment insurance, social security, medicare, etc., etc., etc. are all forms of socialism.
The gop demonizes socialism to protect the flow of campaign money from special interest and wealthy donors. I'm all for capitalism but it only goes so far until wasteful greed kicks in (healthcare insurance, I'm looking at you).
42
@Mark Carolla . . . Add to this list of "socialisms," as Lawrence O'Donnell pointed out last night: NFL stadiums paid for with our tax $$.
9
Here we go again. Trump and the Republicans decrying 'the loony left.' You know, those people who advocate the very programs on which the Trump base depends: Social Security and Medicare.
A conservative 'strategist' is quoted as saying that Trump 'is defending free enterprise, free markets and freedom.' What he doesn't want you to know is that the kind of market capitalism Republicans advocate will also keep you free from health care, retirement, clean air, labor rights, and access to safe drugs and foods. It's not socialism; it's common sense and effective use of a mixed economy!
45
Social Security, Medicare, the VA, Indian Health Services, unemployment insurance, a public military are all socialism.
Corruption is almost always the villain in these failed states. The concentration of power is almost always the villain behind corruption.
31
Trump’s new “red scare” would work only if Democrats let thmselves be baited into infighting over it. Don’t engage with his silly name-calling. Labels aren’t as matter as simply explaining to voters why policies that invest in social safety nets are good policies. Democrats are only going to hurt by this if they start thinking they need to disavow policies like universal healthcare for fear of Trump’s name-caling and fall into internal strife over it.
15
@citybumpkin
Vermont, Bernie 's state, tried the single payer idea. It is too expensive. It would raise taxes 12 to 18%. Those who payed taxes, either started leaving in fear of higher taxes , or started working less, also to avoid taxes. Furthermore, doctors fled Vermont when single payer was proposed. Doctors still do not stay here. I live in Vermont and have been wait listed for 3 years to have a doctor. Forget it. You end up in Urgent care. Nationally, Medicare -and really it is Medicaid- for all, would not guarantee you your own doctor. It would guarantee enormous expense. It would also risk failure resulting in Medicare for none. The only study done on costs of Medicare for all also says medical professionals would have to take about a 40% pay cut to make the program work. No one likes to mention that part.
@pamela
Doctors work for that amount NOW!!! Massachusetts law requires that one gets a statement for medical services rendered costs and what our insurance company paid for. My husband recently had a physical and stress test plus lab work. He is not on Medicare but his employer provided health insurance. The hospital submitted a total bill of $1244.00, his insurance contracted agreement is $553.00 After our deductible of $250 Blue Cross paid $288. Our primary care physician bills out around $185 and is compensated $85 by the contracted rate agreement. Due to ACA we have no copay or deductible for yearly physicals. Maybe if more of us were privy to what is billed and what the accepted contracted insurance payment is we would have a different attitude towards both health care costs and insurance coverage. We pay $140 a week towards our portion of insurance with co-pays and a yearly deductible of $7000. What is this if not a tax? My husband earns a decent salary so the weekly deduction from his pay is "affordable" but health insurance is a regressive "tax". Management, CEO's and other high wage earners pay no more for their health insurance than those making $15/hour. Simple math shows that someone earning $15/hr is paying a lot more than 12-18% of their wages towards insurance but upwards of 25% and this is excluding copays and the $7000 deductible. At $20/hour it's over 19% of one's pay. Most would welcome 12%. One would have to be earn $65K to pay 12% where my husband works.
@pamela First, Fact check: it appears Vermont’s single-payer legislation was never actually funded or implemented. That might explain your 3-year wait for a doctor. https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/sep/20/sean-duffy/vermont-single-payer-was-scrapped-because-it-was-g/
I was in Taiwan recently, which has a larger population than Vermont and has a single-payer system modeled on US Medicare, and it works and has worked for about 20 years.
Single payer can’t work on a state-on-state basis because states are not countries. Much of the legislative and regulatory powers remain in federal hands, which lowers the state’s leverage. You also don’t have the same leverage of being the only insurer and you don’t buy bulk in the same way.
I would also like to see your source for 40% pay cut to medical professionals. But let me put it this way. From Canada to Taiwan to France to Japan to UK to Germany, all countries with single payers, doctors and nurses are able to make a decent living. I find your claim of a 40% pay cut all around highly implausable.
1
Democrats should themselves be looking for another name for their coming proposals...(and the new blood should be the first to reject the label).
It's not socialism and it won't be socialism.
It will be something new blended as it will be with American ideas (and ideals) and the economic, political, social and Constitutional conditions that are uniquely American .
We saw that allowing the word "liberal," to be hurled at Democrats by the weird conglomeration that makes up the political Right in America led to a generation of defensiveness and backsliding on the kind of positions that once made the Democratic Party different and exciting to voters and activists alike.
To allow charlatans like Trump and others to toss around big words like socialism as a means for stoking fear, clouding the debate and hiding the smallness of their own policies and proposals would be a crime.
14
Socialism is a villain and I hope the Dems embrace it as it will ensure Trump’s re-election.
5
@Olivia I agree that it will seriously hurt the Democrats, as GH Bush successfully painted Dukakis in the 1988 elections as "a card-carrying member of the ACLU."
@Olivia
Awww--have a little faith. When the Democrats in Congress (and the prosecutors in the SDNY) get done probing all of Trump's illegal and unethical activities, he won't be running for re-election. He'll be working on amnesty--for himself. Indeed, he's the poster child for why we need Democrats in charge--to once again clean up a corrupt Republican mess.
4
@Olivia
Fine “ No Social Security for you”, paraphrased Seinfeld
Soup-Nazi.
4
The more Trump and his GOP henchmen bray loudly about socialism, the more popular it becomes. This is because most Americans assume any negative target of Trump probably has merit. If Trump and his Republican followers wanted to harm socialism as an idea, they should praise it.
1
How much better he would be if all the great things that Obama was accused of being were true.
5
When in electoral doubt, Republican Party, remember to hit the Grand Old Propaganda button.
Roll out the half-truths, the Big Lies, the 24-hour mindless sloganeering until the bamboozled masses are so dazed, confused and incoherent that they reject cheaper and better healthcare and instead hang onto the biggest 17% of GDP corporate healthcare extortionist rip-off scam in the world.
Down with universal and/or socialized healthcare that is a smashing success outside clueless America !
Up with corporate blood money profits, CEO blood money, stockholder blood money dividends and the right to drop dead from the prosperity gospel of sociopathic right-wing greed and misanthropy !
"Take two tax cuts and call me from the morgue !"
The Trump-GOP Doctor is in !
"Free-dumb !"
D to go forward; R for the 0.1% shaft.
Remember in 2020.
124
@Socrates To support the idea that health care for all can be affordable I just need to refer to the box on my W2 that contains the amount my employer contributed for my family health insurance plan then add in my contribution and compare it to my income. First I have very good insurance some co-pays no large deductibles. However, the total paid would come to ~25% of my salary IF you counted the employer contribution as part of my salary. BTW since I have my own budget for my facility I see what I cost. I am part of my running expenses. So 25% of a good salary is the cost.
Now I lived in Germany for a total of 15 years. When I left I was paying 14.9% of my salary. I paid zero from my pocket for prescriptions, co-pays, specialists, nothing. The care was as good or better than here. I didn't wait for appointments. Yet I paid much less for it. Everyone had insurance. Not all the same there were choices and you could pay for some extras.
The bottom line is that the money needed for universal care is already being paid. Little or no new money need be found merely convert the expense of employer paid healthcare to a tax. Include what we pay for medicare already. All employers should be required to participate.
1
We are "alarmed" by Trump's "calls to adopt" Fascism and dictatorial powers in our country. Democrats need to be loud about this to counter his socialism scare tactics.
39
Readers (especially of the NYT) may not be fans of President Trump, but I hope he is right when he said America will never be a socialist country. It is just not what we were founded on. There are plenty of other countries for people who do want socialism.
10
@Tom Yates
Newsflash, Tom: all advanced countries of world capitalism have strong elements of socialism built in to their governing state systems, e.g. medical care, retirement funds, public schools.
What were we founded on? Privileged land owners, slavery? Maybe you can explain.
29
@Tom Yates What parts of a Socialist Democracy scares you so much? Social Security? Medicare? Just curious. Are you ok with people becoming billionaire off the backs of human making minimum wage, could it be better a livable wage with benefits. I think we can be better.
34
@Tom Yates - Yes, the good ol’ days of America and the unerring perfect vision of the Founders.
In the 1860’s the value of people held in slavery was greater than the combined assets of all manufacturing and rail combined.
By the 1920’s the Founder’s vision did not include Social Security, unemployment insurance, labor laws, the minimum wage, Medicare and Medicaid, worker safety laws, the Environmental Protection Act, the Glass-Steagall Act, the Securities Exchange Act, and the Voting Rights Act.
The American people are realizing that the greatest hinderance to this nation is devotion to a mythological past that was not only lacking it greatness, it is a past largely about creating a feudal society for the benefit of the rich.
18
A gift handed to the ego maniac demagogue Trump on a silver platter by the extreme left.
You beat this guy with progressive ideas that a majority of Americans need and can agree upon, number one being affordable, universal, quality health care.
You don't beat him by bringing up social engineering, identity obsession, socialism talk etc. etc.
The democrats won back the house because they did not like Trump period and they wanted things like health care coverage.
They did not want identity obsession, socialism talk, social engineering talk etc. etc.
7
@Paul Affordable, universal, quality healthcare is socialism. Etc Etc Etc
3
@Julia Holcomb- thank you for your reply. I respectfully differ Julia, just about all our peer countries have a universal, quality, affordable health care coverage for all that is much cheaper with better life measurements like child death rates, longevity rates etc. etc. and all are capitalistic countries. Some are more private orientated like Canada, some come closer to socialism like England, but all are capitalistic countries.
The extreme right is just as bad as the extreme left if they treat health care as a privilege instead of a right where up to 50 million Americans cannot afford coverage (pre ACA) and the right's answer is don't get sick, be rich and/or don't have a bad life event while billionaire HMO/Big Phrama execs get rich off the sickness of Americans.
1
I guess I'm a member of Murphy's loony left because I believe investing in the American people is a good idea.
Having a healthy and well-educated population is the foundation of a thriving economy, something I would assume the Republicans would desire. And yet, if only the already wealthy have access to higher education and quality healthcare, the nation will soon be reduced to the affluent having the education needed to succeed in the 21st century and the rest of us will have to be resigned to serve them.
The economic boom that followed WWII was not a fluke. Taxes were high and the money was invested nationwide in the country and its people. Trump can call that socialism if he wants, but I call it prosperity.
189
@avrds
Taxes as a percent of GDP averaged about 16% during the 50s (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S).
We are currently between 17 and 18%. You repeat a common understanding about taxes then. Yes the rates were high, but the code was full of exemptions and loopholes.
1
@LMJr
There has been analysis of tax rate data that suggest that while the rates were high, compliance was low (e.g., see the Tax Foundation).
Even so, the nation still supported a new generation of college-educated citizens and investments in infrastructure (see the graph of tax rates and growth in Krugman's recent column). No one ever said those investments were "loony," although we know the right complained bitterly when the nation invested in Social Security and Medicare.
One more point: Just because the super rich find creative ways to circumvent the law doesn't mean that the nation shouldn't reconsider its priorities and develop an enforceable tax structure to reinvest in its citizens and the nation's future. That would be my priority over cutting taxes to stuff the bank accounts of Trump and his cronies.
11
@avrds Education? No, the problem is not the fact that the rich get better education - they don't. The problem is there is NO education! I've personally always seen education to be something done individually, rather than in collective. Nowadays, with all the online resources and available books, anyone can study alone, without a professor. Unfortunately, and we can easily generalize, people don't learn for themselves anymore today. They learn for a grade, in order to graduate a school, and then work their entire life in corporation.
What you said about the rich having unfair advantages in life compared with hardworking persons who probably never get an opportunity to show their talent in a better position is true, but socialism has nothing to do with it.
We like it or not, little can be done to change this phenomenon - it rather has to do with fairness than socialism or any other movement.
The debate is not socialism vs. capitalism, the debate is collectivism vs. individualism. And in my opinion, the latter one should win.
Socialism is alive in the US
It is called aid, stimulus, tax cuts, lobby $, etc.
Wall Street stimulus
Coal miners free healthcare and paycheck (Mitch Mcconnell's District)
Farmers aid (Chuck Grassley and many Republicans in farm District)
Big three retirement bailout
Congress lobby $ (Payback by giving socialism(taxpayers money) to lobbyist groups )
Bank Bailout
Big pharma and healthcare
etc
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@Bill
That is not "socialism."
That is "corporate welfare", plain and simple.
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@Joe From Boston
It is a form of socialism, Gov controlled freebies.
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@Bill
Nope. I paid taxes. My town burned to the ground. Bless FEMA.
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