Had he cut off her breast he would be in jail for the rest of his life instead of giving a soft ball interview at a nice restaurant courtesy of the NYT
17
Always thought she did an amazing thing. If more women did it, the world might be a better place.
Of course, I still have to hold on to mine just thinking about
76
@Michael c
Anyone opposed to domestic violence/intimate partner violence should not condone the violent act committed by Ms. Gallo.
One can understand it; the act remains unjustified.
In 1986 my cousin was shot and killed by his live-in girlfriend. Their relationship was unhealthy (obviously).
Years later I took the Tier 1 training for offered by the Fairfax County Office for Women. The training empowers advocates for victims of domestic/intimate partner violence. Anyone with an interest in this issue and living in Northern Virginia can register for the next training here: https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/hscode/ereg/Registration.aspx?groupID=61
I recommend it.
35
I have felt, for many years, that there was a sanctioned open season on women and violence we had to endure at the hands of men. I felt that the focus on This guy's dismembered member was yet another example of our society's backwards thinking. That the reattachment was the story rather than the violence she had to endure the years of living with him just reinforced the male centric view of the world.
280
This story had me riveted - not because it recounted the sordid story of a severed penis - but because it’s that of an exceptionally strong and vital woman who endured far, far more than any woman should. Her perseverance and strength are to be admired.
It also cemented an opinion I’ve held for decades...that Howard Stern and others who claimed that Bobbit didn’t rape his wife because “she wasn’t pretty” aren’t real or honorable men at all.
1410
@Katherine S.
Howard Stern is a weird dude.
People whose opinions matter never listened to him.
87
Her tenacity is admirable. That is what I wrote. She didn’t leave her community in shame. She helped other women who were in abusive relationships. She started a non-profit. She continues to give back.
John Bobbit starred in porno films and invited the reporter to dinner. It’s interesting to me that you didn’t say a word about Bobbit and the heinous crime he committed against Lorena and other women. That says far more about you than it does me.
218
@jbartelloni
Howard Stern is much more than weird, that is being too generous. His jokes are cruel and misogynistic, and come from an era that is going if not gone. I've always found him despicable, and when men told me they liked him I instantly lost respect.
159
Would the New York Times write such a sympathetic piece about a man who had, say, sliced off his wife's breast under similar circumstances? Of course not, as it wouldn't fit the anti-male (and especially anti-white male) narrative of the Times.
30
@Ron Wilson What similar circumstances would those be?
40
@Presbyteros There were serious allegations of spousal abuse by Mr. Bobbitt. As we know, both sexes are capable of that.
4
@Presbyteros
A man who had been physically and psychologically abused by his partner?
Most domestic/intimate partner violence is committed by males.
That having been said, it is not uncommon among the marginalized.
In the LGBTQ community, for example, domestic/intimate partner violence is a well known social malady:
https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/lesbianrx/factsheet.shtml
4
For the record, I was a kid when this happened and all my girlfriends and I could talk about was how brave she was. We all knew she had been abused and raped by her husband and said we could have probably never done what she did. She was a kind of hero to me that she fought back, still is.
67
Amazing. A women maims a man, not in self-defense, claims temporary insanity, gets off, and becomes a hero. Can you imagine if it was a man who stuck around a marriage enduring years of abuse and maiming his wife? The narrative would be very different. And don't forget Francine Hughs and the burning bed where she murdered her husband in cold blood and got off. Message: Female brutality on men - OK.
15
@MHW That is definately not the message I take away from either the case or the article.
32
What an absurd take-away.
32
If you can reverse the genders in a story and you go from feeling reassured to horrified, congratulations, you're probably a bigot. Bobbitt can allege whatever she wants, but the only fact we know for sure is that this is a woman who grievously mutilated her husband who had filed for divorce several days prior. #MeToo has jumped the shark.
13
I remember that at the time of this incident, my friends and I were applauding Lorena for her courage. Enough is enough
59
@Nicole I always thought she should have put it in the garbage disposal. I've been in a similar position as hers, but not brave enough to take that kind of action.
16
Sorry, but as a mother of two boys I find her act of sexual violence abhorrent.
To dismember someone like that is the hallmark of rage and pure narcissistic hatred.
Horrible.
In patriarchy we see some societies cut up girls genitals, or circumcise boys foreskins. Horrible.
In my view, It’s not ok. It’s never ok, no matter what cultural or religious norms prescribe and justify.
Oh yeah wait...women themselves choose to cut up and enhance their breasts everyday in this country and yet we scream misogyny and barbarism when it happens in other societies? And don’t try to tell me that is different. Breasts are major organs with a real life sustaining purpose, To feed our infants, they are not decorative. They are the organs that define us as mammals.
Cutting up our sexual parts is in my view the hallmark of a dysfunctional human society, one that cannot truly honor and respect our bodies as they are.
The only nation that gets it right are the Icelanders, (they recently banned all circumcisions, male and female on the basis that it violates the bodily integrity and rights of a child)...those descendants of the Vikings are truly enlightened...who would have thought.
20
The reason for female circumcision, aka, genital mutilation, is to control women and their sexual desire. Not the same for male circumcision. Big difference! The advantages and disadvantages of male circumcision are still subject to debate, there are no advantages for female circumcision unless you are a misogynist.
73
@Dempsey What advantages are there to male circumcision? People often claim there are advantages, but then can't back it up. And why on earth do those advantages outweigh the risk of infection and death?
2
@Riley Circumcision has its roots in Judaism where it was believed men would be least promiscuous and therefore better fathers if their sexual pleasure were reduced. It’s not as destructive as FGM but comes from the same anti-sex pathology. Let’s ban both procedures. If an 18 year old wants to mutiliate their own genitals, have at it.
3
No mention of Lorena Bobbitt's 1997 arrest for assaulting her own mother. Temporary insanity too? I also can not understand why she would continue using the last name of her rapist husband decades after such a short and failed marriage. Gallo is not that hard to spell or pronounce.
Some people see Lorena Bobbitt as a feminist hero, I cant help but think she may have just acted viciously when she heard John was about to leave her and bask in the glory of being perpetual victim afterwards. Is the motto of this story that if you feel you are not being treated well, just take a knife and mutilate someone?
24
@nydoc She doesn't use his last name. As the author indicates in the story, she goes by Gallo now. As to her arrest for assaulting her own mother, she was found not guilty. Perhaps a reason for not mentioning it, no?
57
@Susan Baker
The thing is that the ex husband was also found not guilty, but the article mentioned that prominently right in the beginning of the article. So they did not use a consistent standard.
12
@Susan Baker
John Bobbit was acquitted of assaulting Lorena.
I assume you would use the same standard, correct?
7
A woman who weighs less than 100 lbs. has little defense against brute strength. Fortunately, weapons exist and will
equal the playing field eventually. There is no excuse for domestic violence and rape. In this case, the punishment fit the crime perfectly. Very Old Testament.
18
@Daphne And yet he was not convicted of a crime against his wife. And maybe, just maybe his wife was lying. Shocking I know...
2
"They found it, put it on ice in a Big Bite hot dog box from a nearby 7-Eleven and rushed it to the hospital..."
That is funnier than anything Al Franken could have come up with.
13
@Jorge
Just another example of the martyred Franken's true feelings towards women - especially those in a helpless and vulnerable position.
1
Bullies deserve what they get. She should have burned the bed.
6
I don't remember the discussion of the why, the damage to a penis was such a monumental catastrophe nuclear war could have been declared and gone unnoticed, but every woman knew the why.
He had beaten raped threatened strangled smothered half drowned or whatever else it took to make him feel like a man
At lot of us said "well done" to Lorena.
20
Please stop referring to "accented English" when writing about people of non-US origin speaking English. All languages, including English, are accented. It is impossible to speak without placing an accent somewhere in a word. Americans speak English with American accents, and other people speak with accents developed in their countries. American English is not unaccented; it's amazing how few Americans, even educated ones, realize this.
112
@reader
There is in fact a difference between speaking English with a foreign accent and speaking a native dialect of English. Of course we all speak a dialect of our language, and many speak more than one, especially if the native dialect is less universally comprehensible--think cockney vs. received or ebonics vs. standard. And we speak in more than one register, depending on the audience. That said, for many, English spoken with a foreign accent has a certain charm, as do some dialects of English; note the number of ads in which the narrator speaks in British English, on the assumption that it sells more stuff in the States. Lorena's light foreign accent is a feature of her speech noted by the author of the article; that's all.
6
The expression “accented” used this way means non native pronunciation. You could use it when talking about any language. It may be that some are bothered by pointing this out, but it is not a mistake.
8
The end of the article where Lorena says: "They laugh. They always laugh," reminds me of the Kavanaugh hearing where Christine Blasey Ford who accused the judge of having assaulted her at a party with a friend looking on said that their laughter as the assault went on was one of the things that always stuck in her mind.
Women are abused daily in so many ways. They are attacked verbally/physically, berated, belittled, appraised like cattle, (Trump like Stern is really good at this, saying things like "I don't think so and so did anything to her. Just look at her." - This from Trump who looks like, well, Trump.) and always, as a last resort, if neither of those work to shut a woman up or out, or, if they do work and they want to top it off, there is always their laughter. Men's laughter, the final insult.
1239
@Margaret Well said. ("Recommend" button wouldn't work!)
49
@Margaret
Her story has so many inconsistencies that it is hard to believe.
10
@mjazzguitar What are the inconsistencies?
87
I was with her from the beginning. It hit home; I'd been therein her shoes. My father and my aunt laughed a lot, but I think they got it, too. Lorena, you've been my hero all along.
16
I was raped and brutalized by my long ago ex husband (also from Ecuador where DV is the norm) for 7 long years. I fantasized about killing him and killing myself, so great was the emotional pain. I understand Ms. Gallo’s absolute desperation and shame. I’m glad she’s speaking out and helping other DV survivors. She’s courageous in my estimation.
910
@Dash Riprock--and your point would be . . . ????
28
@Stronger now Chris watts felt the same way, he got 5 life sentences without parole.
4
Even in 2019, we still struggle to find the right way to handle the on-going violence against women embedded in our society. DeVos' Education Dept wants to roll back protections for women who try to step forth and speak up. Police Departments continue to minimize violence against women, more so when the women are PoC, and are pooly trained to interview and to process rape-kits in a timely fashion. Courts minimize the crime of rape and release rapists for time served, or just with probation, fearing to endanger their future prospects. Boys will be boys, after all, and it's only "twenty minutes of action." What to do? I think that there are some things to be said for fighting back, and for teaching girls and women to fight back. The institutions around them are not protecting them. As a science-fiction author once wrote, "You can own a woman or you can own a knife. You can't own both." Maybe we just need to say that "Ladies will be ladies!", roll our eyes and understand that certain things are just to be expected. After all, it's only a small cut. Perhaps we'd be better off as a society if more men knew they could expect such a response.
37
Female privilege: You are free to brutally assault and disfigure another human being, serve almost no time for your crime, and then garner sympathy as a victim years later for unproven allegations. Beautiful. Even if he did rape her, which there is no proof, she wasn't in immidate danger since she went downstairs to get a knife to assault and mutilate him while he was sleeping, which means that was premeditated assault and not an act of self defense. It's the equivalent of someone assaulting you and then you days later showing up to their house to assault them.
Me Too is complete nonsense.
22
He brutally assaulted her many times and what did he get. So many men walk free in this world who have committed violent acts against women. You cannot find any empathy because, well, why is that?
44
@John Sure, she assaulted him. She was a battered woman who decided she wouldn't take it anymore. She was tried on the assault charge and the jury found that she was temporarily insane at the time of the assault. Sounds about right to me.
25
My wife & I are thinking of manufacturing a ‘Member Grab’ device that cleanly & swiftly cuts & deposits the offender’s member (read ‘weapon’) into a leak-proof disposable bag for any woman confronting her male attacker. Think it’ll be a best-seller for sure!
7
Doesn’t this story (thank you, NYTimes) make you wonder why religious institutions, the military, and the courts in America protect men who abuse women and children? How is it that men feel forced sex is something to brag about? And why does the media continue to denigrate the marginalized and powerless because they are not quite white, perceived as immoral, unclean or mentally deficient?
71
She should have jammed it down the garbage disposal and hit the switch.
34
I asked John about the additional charges that the film covers, including a harrowing interview with one of his ex-girlfriends who said he tied her to the bed in his Niagara Falls, N.Y., apartment and for several days repeatedly raped her. He was convicted and spent time in jail.
“It’s all made up and I’m tired of it,
Sadly to this day, John is in complete denial of his part in this tragic story. I’m glad that Lorena received the professional help she needed, he obviously got “help” from the Howard Stern Show.
55
My bipolar Bell Labs engineer father, a good and gentle man except in mania, choked my age 52 mother to death when she got a court order for him to vacate their residence, and discovered she intended to divorce him after 2 decades of physical abuse. When he angrily turned on her at 8 a.m. Friday February 10 1967 in New Brunswick NJ, she went into the kitchen and picked up the butcher knife and told him to get away from her; this was the first time she had fought back. He wrested the knife from her hand, threw her on the bed on her back, straddled her face-to-face, put his hands around her throat and killed her. At the mortuary, I saw his fingerprint bruises, and he confessed to me, in detail. Later, he denied what he had done. I believe Lorena, and I'm glad she is making a new and better life. I wish my mother had lived to do the same. (My memoir of their marriage "Within the Family" will be published this year.)
526
@Anne Russell I am so sorry that this happened to you and your family. You have my deepest sympathy and we look forward to seeing your memoir come out.
116
@Anne Russell Very sorry to hear your family tragic story. As for Lorena, she's obviously a dignified, strong, and sincere person. Her ex-husband got mostly of what he deserved; death, albeit coarse, may have been a justifiable self-defense. Best to both you and Ms. Gallo.
13
Human evolution has happened because people continued to reproduce. Without male testosterone levels, they probably wouldn't be interested in sex. But they are; they have a very strong sex drive. The problem with many men is that they aren't raised to have compassion and respect for women, which would cause them to self-regulate, to choose restraint. So they do what they do. Maybe sometime in the future we won't be living in primitive times.
34
@Denny: Men don't have much time left to evolve into compassionate human beings. Climate Change will end us in a couple hundred years and nobody will have any time to evolve or do anything except survive.
Too bad that we never got beyond 'boys will be boys': See Brett Kavanaugh.
27
@Denny
It's not about sex, it's about the exhibition of power.
34
@Denny that is a big probably to throw out there... so if we all took the less testosterone road we should looked to other human evolutionary features? just asking since its an open book when it comes to cherry picking human evolution to get to 7 billion people or explaining away current male behavior like a boil plate when you could just as easily fault the media coverage...
1
I am pretty sure the NYT would not run a story promoting a TV show about a man who had genitally mutilated his wife and tossed her body parts out a car window in a fit of "temporary insanity."
It's getting harder and harder these days to know what's politically correct--and what's not.
28
@Ro Ma It gets easier to understand once you stop willfully closing your eyes to the nature of domestic violence.
11
You’re right, the NYT wouldn’t have an article about a woman mutilated by her intimate partner; women are abused and mutilated by their male partners all the time. It’s not news, there’s no shock value, and there are no documentaries about commonplace violence against women.
31
@Robin No men do not cut out their wife's reproductives all the time.
And any man who does is not going to be celebrated/cheered by men and pointed to as a reason why women need to start watching their step.
And no national paper of record is going to run a fawning hagiography of a man who committed such a crime against his wife and is now whining that HE's the real victim here.
1
What a extraordinary women! I rejoice in her remarkable recovery as well. Her forthright speech and humility speaks volumes about her character.
I remember reading this story in the ‘90’s. I didn’t laugh. I felt her ‘husband ‘ got exactly what he deserved. In fact I thought castration was a good punishment for all violent sex abusers and rapists. Still do.
65
The Taliban are calling and would like to co-host a conference on Divine justice.
5
@Gwen Vilen I agree 100%. Call it vigilante justice or whatever you want, sometimes the 'stand your ground' case is justified.
2
Lorena Bobbitt committed a heinous, frightening and forever threatening crime. That is what makes men shudder. Lorena did what many women probably thought about. Now, many years later many women are admitting to themselves that they'd like to do what Lorena did. And men are admitting that they realize it could happen to them. Has that reality changed any behavior? I believe it has. I believe that many women have probably given their boy friends, husbands, lovers and casual dates that look that clearly signals if you hurt me then "You and your penis are in great jeopardy". It's no longer a joke.
On the other hand there is nothing to restrict the behavior of women who indulge in infidelity and all too easily cuckold a husband or partner out of anger, resentment, lack of satisfaction or just plain opportunity and a need for a sexual adventure. Admit it or not, women still hold the advantage and the knife. They can slice a relationship to pieces and now they have multiple weapons.
Watch what you do boys. If you fall asleep next the woman you've abused, hurt, raped and humiliated you may wake to a very different world.
Maybe that is justice and equality.
94
@Jay The facts don't support your bias. Among the always married, men far outstrip women in their proclivity for adultery.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america
Also, your view of women's resort to violence in couples is also lop-sided:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2968709/
"evidence suggests that men perpetrate sexual abuse, coercive control, and stalking more frequently than women and that women also are much more frequently injured during domestic violence incidents; (c) women and men are equally likely to initiate physical violence in relationships involving less serious “situational couple violence,” and in relationships in which serious and very violent “intimate terrorism” occurs, men are much more likely to be perpetrators and women victims; (d) women’s physical violence is more likely than men’s violence to be motivated by self-defense and fear, whereas men’s physical violence is more likely than women’s to be driven by control motives; (e) studies of couples in mutually violent relationships find more negative effects for women than for men"
Every day we know crimes much more heinous than Lorena's are committed by men against women. They and their crimes seem to be forgotten readily. Why do you suppose that is?
354
@Jay You couldn't do a better job of trivializing domestic violence.
271
@Jay
I can only shake my head. You have some serious issues, but none of them have to do with women armed with knives.
252
Howard Stern said what? I wonder if he regrets that comment now...
28
I've been reading the comments here, and cannot help noticing the obvious. Almost without exception, the negative comments are from men, and, judging from the tone of the posts, angry men. I think that when it comes to domestic violence, a lot of men don't get it. They may not be abusers themselves, but male culture mandates a lot of abusive behavior in establishing pecking orders. The culture says this humiliation has to taken, and complaining about it makes one less than a man. I think the anger some men feel about their own powerlessness is projected in this case onto Lorena. It doesn't matter to them how much she endured from an abusive husband.
On the other hand, as a man, I am totally embarrassed by the display of ignorant vitriol I'm seeing here. I'm glad that Lorena has able to heal somewhat, and devote herself to the cause of domestic violence, which is one of the great shames of our culture, particularly in the way that society conspires to keep women in bondage by trivializing their pain.
62
If it is a man, it's blind rage and must be severely punished. If it is a woman, it's temporary insanity and must be forgiven.
11
Taking a knife to someone's genitals, male of female?
What is this a Latin American death squad?
How can that be approved by any sane HUMAN BEING in REAL life?
He's clearly an alleged abuser and she's clearly a violent offender.
Both are guilty in my minds eye. She more so, because she took illegal action to terminate his sexuality when he took legal action to terminate the marriage.
We should never agree with any heinous act(s) no matter how they are disguised as "morality"
If we do, we then lower ourselves into the world of the disguised mental malignancy, as normalcy.
For example: Instead of a couple terrorizing each other... named Bobbitt A vs Bobbit B, would we then condone terrorist bombings, if done in the name of a 'righters god'?
At what state of insanity can we justify this?
8
"There was a manicurist who cured her man,
She trimmed him as only a professional can." And I continued....written in 1993, by me. Great to get the follow-up/back story.
1
Let's erect a statue her right next to one of Lizzie Borden.
5
What a great article. The last paragraph is chilling, how many women in the world are killed, raped, and mutilated by their husband/boy friends every day? Hardly news, but let one prick lose his and its a national psychological nightmare.
53
A sympathetic gauzy gentle profile of a woman who mutilated her husband because of an alleged incident that was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. Hmm. It looks like the NYT has reached peak gynocentrism today.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to imagine this paper doing the same thing for a man who had chopped off his wife's breasts or tried to cut out her reproductive parts.
Sick.
And no man not currently in prison would ever justify such a heinous act.
This evil piece of garbage cut off her husband's manhood but we should feel sorry for her because some people made jokes... Right..
This is wrong. There is no excuse for anyone to put hands on anyone else except in immediate self-defense. Chopping off body parts when someone is asleep is never self-defense. Period.
If people really want to say anything goes and the ends justify the means they had better hope that most men never adopt that evil mentality because women will come out on the losing end. Always.
10
When a husband threatens to leave his wife, I have no difficulty believing that she might slash the tires of his car. However, I cannot now believe -- nor could I believe in 1994 -- that the "spurned" wife would resort to mamiming him, as did Lorena then. Put another way, John Wayne Bobbitt's tale sounded unbelievable to me in 1994 and even more so now. I'm glad that Lorena agreed to enlighten us as to what REALLY happened -- and it sounds eminently plausible.
20
Did Howard Stern decline to comment for this article?
9
I hope more people read this article. Public education of the violent control aspect of rape rather than some misguided focus on romantic attraction needs more attention. I was raped by a stranger and there was concern over my testimony about whether the jury would find the idea that I don’t remember if he actually inserted his penis or not, credible. I don’t remember because he was flaccid, had his hands on my throat, and I was screaming my head off. Why would it matter how far in his penis got? When would it be an acceptable rape? One inch? Two? What if it had been an oral rape? It angers me. The DNA and police sketch wouldn’t have been enough? I had to be credible to a jury too? What if I was a sex worker coming home from work? What if it had been an oral rape? Comments like Howard Stern’s “she’s not even that attractive” is seriously ignorant and insulting to the abused, not to mention lacking in ANY subtlety or thought. The one book that helped me put things in perspective was a book called “The Sexual Face of Violence” by Lloyd Vogelman, which is a bunch of conversations with convicted rapists about their crimes. They were as wide and varied as there are colors. One person said “she started screaming so I ran away.” Another said “she started screaming so I slit her throat.” Some had wives, girlfriends, were in law enforcement. That’s when I stopped asking what I should’ve done differently. Thank you Mr. Vogelman. Thank goodness your book was in the university library.
33
It's almost as if these people have self-fulfilling names. Of COURSE John Bobbitt got bobbed. Of course Greta Rideout (the case in which marital rape became...a bad thing - sheesh) rides out into the sunset, away from her nasty husband who raped her in front of their child. Spooky.
2
John Bobbitt tried to make a move on the reporter. What a sick man.
17
I don’t really remember the story but I did some googling and it is as sordid as it appears from this article. The woman is guilty, the man is a brute, and both of them should have been locked up at the time: he for marital rape, she for assault and battery. Cutting off his penis? Really? Yuck. I have no sympathy for her. The idea that being a victim excuses bad behavior is nonsense. Yes, you may be a victim but you are still a human being, a moral agent, and a responsible adult. I hope Lorena and her ex go back to whatever dark corners of the internet they have crawled out from. If the #metoo has devolved into tabloid gossip, maybe it should join them there.
7
I find it mind boggling that after losing his penis to a spouse he abused John Bobbit offended again. I guess it demonstrates that some violent predators are simply unteachable.
20
I, for one, never thought that some crazy lady cut off her husbands penis in a jealous rage. I thought then, and still think now, that a horribly abused person snapped and struck out in the only way her distressed mind could at the moment. My thought then, and now, is that he's lucky she didn't plunge it into his heart. I say this as an imperfect man, not as a self-righteous one. But I have never had any difficulty knowing right from wrong, even if I struggled personally with acting in accordance with my knowing.
Here's the thing. When there is documented domestic violence, the victim gets the benefit of the doubt. There was never any doubt in my mind, considering ALL the facts, that Lorena was the victim.
38
Like all major news events, I clearly remember the day the story broke about the penis being "detached." I was in a hair salon in upstate New York with all women, from 13 to 83 years. I was in total sympathy with Mrs. Bobbitt, but as the conversation turned to that major story it became clear that every woman in that salon understood the motivation. Everyone of us either knew a woman who had been abused by their husband or had been abused themselves. We were ALL very aware that penises can be and are used as weapons. Those women in that salon completely understood why Mrs. Bobbitt would cut off the penis. Many wished they had the courage to do the same. The general consensus was--"maybe if men thought we would cut off their penis they would be more careful how they use it."
31
@Barbara And abusive men in a barbershop might agree that "there's no point in telling anything to a woman with two black eyes as clearly her husband tried twice already" or "if women were more careful about how they spoke to men, men wouldn't have to slap them in the mouth".
Abuse is wrong. Post hoc justifications for abuse are also wrong, regardless of which gender claims that they can sympathize with the reasons. Why is this so difficult for some people to understand?
10
You can say what you want, but he was convicted of nothing concerning her.However,she was found insane which prevented her from being found guilty. So let's all jump on the bandwagon and call the non victim a victim .But in this crazy millennial nut house we live in facts don't matter. And once again it has something to do with President Trump. LOL
6
This comment is off topic, but the reference to Anita Hill in this article made me think: I wonder (rhetorically, of course) why the Republicans don't use as proof that they are not racist the fact that they fought tooth and nail to put two current justices that are most likely sexual abusers on the current Supreme Court, one white and one African American.
4
This woman is a monster, and you are giving her media exposure to profit, where are your standards on what to write?
This sends a message, that it doesn't matter the severity of the crime, if you do something sensationalist, the New York Times will write about you and help you profit from your actions. Nice going.
8
This is awful! After reading some comments on this thread...I wonder if American men are just not a huge waste of time. Today - went out to visit a friend with my husband - a guy that is rebuilding an old airplane - one of his pilot buddies shows up and asks me "Do you belong to this guy?" pointing to my hubby - told him - no...he belongs to me. You could tell the jerk was taken back by my response. Pretty sad out there...
17
Antifeminist NYT leading the crusade to re-infantilize women by painting them as hysterical, helpless victims, incapable of malice or even responsibility. Anything they do, men *make* them do, right? This is not feminism, it's chivalry.
5
No Pulitzer Prize for author Amy but lotsa laughs:
As soon as I got to the Big Bite hot dog box, that was it for me, folks, and I clicked-baited over and out to the Real CNN:
" . .. the police . . . clutched their loins and went digging . . . for the missing member. They . . . put it [!] on ice in a Big Bite hot dog box from a nearby 7-Eleven."
1
Lorena, you are a top notch person, and you should be very proud of yourself. All the rest, the laughter, should turn to become just an insignificant background noise.
10
I am glad that this story is redressed after 26 years. Domestic violence has always been hidden because women are scared and most likely controlled financially and emotionally by their abuser. In this #MeToo era women finally are speaking up and it is about time Lorena’s got to tell her story! 26 years ago it was a laughing matter but it isn’t now!
8
Rape is a crime. If Ms. Gallo had gone to the police and/or hired an attorney, she would have been wasting her time. She didn't. She reacted with violence, and that woke people up to the fact that men - only men - can commit the crime of rape, and it doesn't matter about who gets raped - a girlfriend, a pickup from the bar, a wife, a passerby. There is no justification for it.
When I was Director of Research at the Michigan Center for Forensic Psychiatry, I spent many hours listening to rapists recite their rationales for targeting women. One claimed to have been physically abused by his mother when he was young and small, so he looked for young, small women whom he could threaten and then rape. Another victimized older - one more than 80 - white women because he had been persecuted because he was black. He chose older white women because they had been white LONGER.
No joke. Can't make this stuff up.
10
2 thoughts
I haven't read all 333 comments but at first glance they seem to be divided along gender lines. Men are appalled by Lorena's action and woman are sympathetic.
Even back in the 90s i always thought of John Wayne as the joke and Lorena as the victim.
5
I have my own story of abuse that I have never told anyone. I now live in Florida though I am basically a New Yorker. So one day due to my blood sugars being to high I checked into a local hospital I will not name. The doctors worked to get me down to normal and it took two days. Then a friend picked me up but we were told that I was not leaving due to a statue only valid in FL called Baker Act. And someone baker acted on me.
What this meant in my case was taking all my belongings including of course my cell phone. I was given a red rather than an orange robe but it kept opening due to being old so a man on my floor which was for patients who were dying. He showed me how to wear two robes.
Imagine this: My name was nowhere on the board as everyone else's name and condition showed up. The psychologists talked to everyone but virtually no staff talked to me. Luckily the TV was not allowed in my small room as a woman in the next bed was dying and I would not survived with a tv which were blasting in every other room.
Who had done this to me? Not my doctors of course. They praised my well being and once on Baker Act I did get insulin for each diabetic diet though the nursing staff was truly weird, giving me their insulin and then hours passed before I was given food, which is usually given so much later than meals.
So finally getting to who Baker Acted me. It was a doctor who tried to raped me from behind while I was pushed into a cot in the dark emergency ward. continued
2
First,I sometimes wish the term "domestic violence" could be removed.Could we please just call it what it is- a hate crime, aggravated assault, kidnapping, rape? You say domestic violence and immediately it is not a "real " crime. If I were walking down the street and a stranger grabbed me by the hair of my head, starting using sexual epithets, choking and punching me, or abducted me,I think many more people would leap to my aid and would certainly not ask what had I done to provoke this, or why hadn't I just crossed the street to prevent this! I can understand the desperation behind Ms. Gallo's actions in 1993. A victim feels she has no good choices, for all the reasons the article cites -victims are not believed, they are blamed, this culture does not want to hear from adults who "could leave if they wanted to..".. It is hard for the average person to grasp what it is to live under constant threat of and delivery of persistent physical violence. In 18 U.S. states, almost half of homicides are domestic violence related. Also, read the Washington Post article (December 2018) on failure of restraining orders to protect victims and their children,and the predictable escalation of violence, leading to murder in these situations. We know the common factors that create abusers,the predictable course of domestic violence ,and the holes in the legal system that lead to death for so many.We need to be willing to put money behind the action to end this scourge in our communities.
12
@P Mooney The term "domestic violence" or, even worse, "domestic abuse" should never be used because they cover the complete scale from rolling your eyes at someone to torture and murder. The same for the word "inappropriate": It covers a range of actions so extensive that it means nothing at all.
3
Great story, even if the writing leaves something to be desired (a correction would be nice): "It just so happened that at the same time, a wave of movies, documentaries and podcasts . . . had shined new light on other women . . ."
2
"They laugh" reminds me of Dr. Ford's memory...ugh, so very very sad.
6
One time, early in our marriage, my wife and I had an argument during which she became extremely angry. I never abused my wife and never would, but like all couples we sometimes disagree and sometimes heatedly. We hadn’t resolved the disagreement yet, but I was tired, so I told her I was going to sleep. This angered her even more.
You know how you sometimes get that feeling somebody is staring at you? Well, it works in your sleep too. I woke up to find my wife laying on a pillow, with her face about 12” from mine, glaring at me angrily. Her eyes were huge.
It was so crazy and kind of creepy, I started laughing, but then it made me kind of angry that she was doing this while I was sleeping. It seemed very threatening. I told her, “You better get on up out my face and let me sleep. Don’t be doing that mess while I’m sleeping. You thinking about pulling a Lorena Bobbitt, or something?” She started laughing and said, “Maybe.”
We stayed up and settled things, after which I went back to sleep....this time peacefully.
To this day, we still laugh about her mad-dogging me up close, as I slept.
Men, they say that couples should never let the sun go down on their anger. It’s probably good advice.
I’ve been married 18 years now and still have all the parts I was born with. I wonder though....what if I didn’t wake up when I had.
2
rape culture is when someone says "i dont believe she was raped, shes not that good looking" i used to live in an apartment in AZ, and this elderly woman who was my neighbor had her apartment broken into and the guy raped her. she was in her 80s. she was hospitalized.
10
I always remembered this story as the woman who was repeatedly raped by her violent husband, and one day she just got sick of it, and had enough of it, and defended herself in the best way available to her. I don't believe for a second it was a "temporarily insane" act. She knew what she was doing, and she probably thought about it before that gruesome night. That being the case, I still don't fault her for doing what she did. I see this story as a story of a traumatized woman defending herself in a particularly potent way. She errored in one way however. If she really wanted to "get him" she should have flushed it down the toilet and be done with it. All gone, end of story, no porno career for the offender.
Every time I have ever seen John Bobbit talk he struck me as a liar.
7
@John "One day she just got sick of it." Right. And it's just a coincidence that day came two days after the man had filed for divorce.
1
Having been, for many years, a victim of domestic abuse, I can understand Lorena's actions perfectly. My first husband - the Late and Unlamented - would wake me up all hours of the night with no regard to the fact that *I* had to get up and go to work in the morning. "All you do is sit on your can and answer the phone." And to top it all off I discovered he'd been molesting our daughters for about five years. I never understood why the younger one was terrified of men, or why the older girl told a little friend "You can spend the night with us. My dad won't hurt you." The only reason I didn't commit suicide was I was afraid he'd get custody of the girls.
8
Thank you for this. Maybe we aren't too far from tackling emotional abuse in a marriage that is a rape of another kind. Love is mangled and beaten down in a thousand ways.
Thank you for an update on Lorena Gallo. I'm glad to see she was able to take a horrible situation and make good from it. Mostly, happy that she sought therapy; is engaged in a long term relationship; has a daughter; and, that John Bobbit is a sad attention seeking fat, old man. That's the ultimate revenge for these creeps who actually hate women.
7
I see this way too much these days: The injection of the author into the story. The references to restaurants where you ate or drank coffee offer no insight other than suggesting that the author has a big ego. It's an otherwise excellent story almost overshadowed by the author's vanity.
3
Lorena Bobbit Gallo, the Catholic. Perhaps she could have a career as a lay counselor for wayward priests who have been "inappropriately touching" children, whose pain she likey understands.
Why do you say she is “ surprisingly sincere”? Why are you surprised? You have decided who she is before even talking with her. Have you ever been repeatedly raped and victimized? The time of your article is superior and demeaning to all women.
3
Why in the world would I read this? I could not care less.
I was raped by my now ex-husband many times during the last three years before I left him and took our children with me. He raped me while I was sleeping. I would wake up, exhausted from working and going to college part time, with him already mid way through his sexual act. This was almost 30 years ago and I've never told anyone, least of all my three grown children. I never wanted them to think badly of their father.
11
The Times trying to make Lorena a Metoo hero.
That's just amazing.
1
@AutumnLeaf It's sickening. Considering the current American culture, it's no wonder that jury went for her sorry excuse of "temporary insanity." The woman is a monster and the media are treating her as a hero.
2
Sad that the thread here devolved into male vs female.
3
Jordan Peele and Joshua Rofé will undoubtedly make money off the “crazy white lady’s” suffering. John Bobbit, the rapist and assaulter, is extensively interviewed by the filmmakers so he’s given ample opportunity to repeat, yet again, his outrageous lies of blamelessness though he’s been convicted of holding hostage, raping and assaulting other women as well. That favor has been eagerly handed to Mr. Bobbit by countless others like Howard Stern and Dr. Oz who apparently want Mr. Bobbit to defend and justify himself to the detriment of his ex-wife Lorena. No, Lorena was not a feminist hero – but she’s becoming one now with her work for other battered and raped women. Being a feminist means a lot of hard work and exposure to insult and disparagement. Lorena is strong. Lorena is a good person. Lorena’s proved this.
5
Didn’t this happen Coney Island?
1
I was a young mother on my second marriage when this unforgettable story broke. As a survivor of abuse in my first marriage, I felt like I totally understood why Lorena acted. Unless you’ve been there, I don’t think you (especially men) get it. Honestly, she was my heroine at the time; my rage at my abuser (who took no responsibility for his actions) was just starting to surface.
When I left my abusive husband, I was the ‘bad guy’ in my little community. When I should have been applauded for walking out, I was punished instead. Women get that kind of treatment still in our society.
I’m so glad to hear Lorena is a mother and is living a good life. God bless her for the courage to tell her story in a documentary in an effort to help other women.
12
"It occurred to me that there would be no documentary, no Bobbitt jokes or permanent place in popular culture, had John severed some vital piece of Lorena." I don't believe this opinion for a second.
In recalling this sad story, I think they both deserved some jail time and a lot of mental health therapy.
I congratulate Lorena on her courage to speak further on her story in the Times today. She is aware that there will lots of people who will continue to castigate her. Patriarchy will try to silence her abuse and recovery again.
After I was strangled by my husband and then he called the police "to arrest me" back in the 1990s, I spent years trying to tell people what happened. No body wanted to hear it, including other women. I turned to the African American community in Minnesota to find support and the strength to live my life (I am white). I realized then how frightening patriarchy can be. It annihilates the soul and the physical well-being of those that don't accept it.
Like Lorena, I have learned that patriarchy is a dangerous animal. But we "others" are stronger now, our message is heard more, and younger women, minorities, and LB members realize now that silence is their enemy, not their friend. Bravo Lorena
4
Thanks for this article, especially the stark ending when the journalist realizes the publicity would never have been the same if her husband had done something similar to her.
5
Why was John on Dr. Oz? Howard Stern, I get. He's a jackass. Oz seems to be an opportunist, but I never have thought of him as being insensitive. Am I missing something?
10
If mistreatment of women justifies the second worst possible mutilation of other human beings, and even that doesn't work, let's move on to number 1. Blinding.
Then we can read about the victimization of the one who performed the blinding. Poor thing.
3
"there would be no documentary, no Bobbitt jokes or permanent place in popular culture, had John severed some vital piece of Lorena."
But he did.
Rape severs the survivor's sense of basic trust in the world. He severed their marriage, her ability to live in her own home, and, temporarily, her sanity. Then he did it again to someone else, yet somehow he's seen as the victim.
The things he took from her are real, as real as the bruises that everyone ignored.
19
What a chilling article. It's a cold world out there where women yearning to be free must literally carve their way out to escape (and trimph over) their oppressors. But it's OK if you black out while you do it - then it's temporary insanity not a crime. Far better to use the courts, of course, and now 25 years later it here is a new day with the #MeToo movement and the great satisfactions of brininging down a Roger Ailes. But the basic dynamic remains - men with an urge to overpower women and women who fight back in their own way. This is biblical, folks - check out Judith and Holofernes, and compare the deep forces and complex human feelings imbedded in that story with the tawdry smallness of modern life in this one. Collapsing fraught human relationships into court disputes about who is being victimized and arguments about compensation, all in the glare of out-of-control social media, is a pretty dreary place to go to figure this out.
3
Apparently, she’s a folk hero.
1
Everytime there is another account of sexual violence against a woman/girl, which, like that of Lorena Gallo, or Christine Blasey Ford, or Salma Hayek and so many others, is “sensational” enough to make the headlines, it always makes me remember cases I’ve heard of over the years of “ordinary” women (some of whom I’ve known) whose stories of sexual abuse and domestic violence will never be told in any newspaper.
12
I believed Anita Hill and Christine Ford, I support the MeToo Movement, a women's right to choose, equal pay and equal rights. Men who commit violence against women are reprehensible cowards who should be prosecuted to the full extent. But none of the above excuses the perverse mayhem committed in this case.
4
Sadly, the only way Lorena got off was by reason of temporary insanity. She should have got off in self-defense.
I applaud any abused woman with the courage to cut off her abuser's member.
17
A brief stint in a mental hospital was insufficient and she should have received a long prison sentence. I guess she never heard of divorce.
5
@Mike
Apparently you did not read the article.
5
@Mike Oh, she had heard of divorce all right. Her husband had filed for divorce two days earlier. For reasons unknown, it never occurred to that jury that this might have had something to do with her alleged "temporary insanity." It never occurred to them that "murderous hatred" or "blind rage" might have better described her mental condition at the time.
This article, just like most of the 1993 articles when this happened, was meant to garner sympathy for Lorena.
While I don't condone domestic violence, or particularly think John Wayne Bobbitt ever came off as a good person, in what reality is it okay to disfigure him? Shooting him would have been self defense. Cutting off his member while he slept is a different act entirely.
In a civilized society, aren't we supposed to let the police and the justice system decide what punishment fits the crime? Even serial killers aren't sentenced to genital mutilation. Not once in this article was i convinced that this is okay.
4
Never in the history of histories have crocodile tears fell so heavily to the floor of a witness stand. Never. She should've gotten the same as Catherine Kieu for doing the same. Something between her ears...is broke.
3
I surely hope you are being facetious when you say "when we were less evolved as humans".
Undeniably she was driven/pushed to the limit. However, what she did was a gruesome crime that also undeniably exceeded the level of trauma and pain created by the abuse or instances of marital rape committed against her.
The argument about the question of cumulative effects is highly subjective and far beyond the capability of broad agreement.. In other words, the question of whether hundreds of instances of aggressive verbal and emotional abuse (emotionally traumatic, but non physical) and possibly dozens of instances of marital rape *add up* to "equivalent" to the assault in question.
The simple fact is that we should not allow ourselves.... ever... to accept or apologize or discount "an eye for an eye" reciprocal justice, revenge, etc.
Its ironic, because progressives largely do not believe in punitive justice for its own sake. That is to say the goal of justice being punishment.... not rehabilitation or restoration. Even for those people who commit severe crimes, the more liberal philosophy is simply isolation from society.
The reason i mention this is that it exposes one of the glaring hypocrisies of progressives.
Practically all crimes deserve rehabilitation or restorative justice or at least a humane and empathetic approach.
Except when it comes to assaults by males on females. Then, throw them in the dungeon.
Dont get me wrong. Conservatives practically hold PhDs in shameless hypocrisy. But they dont have a monopoly.
3
Good coverage of a story aspect that certainly was largely overlooked at the time, and great follow-up. I recall this story and the "marital rape" aspect of it was presented as "the defense" rather than being given very serious attention by the press (NYT was better than most) -- even when Bobbitt was charged with sexual assault. The DNA test in particular was not well-covered (even if inconclusive or not performed, that should have been reported, as the rape kit results were). Lorena's Red Wagon has become a way to take the horror that led to the actions that gained notoriety and make that horror into a way to provide some safe harbor activities and information to those suffering domestic abuse or DA aftereffects. It's not surprising that Amy Chozick has her own reactions to Bobbitt and to Gallo; she keeps those fairly low-key -- still, they come across. Lorena seems to have made the more selfless and healing-oriented choices. What happens next will be illuminating: will Lorena's Red Wagon expand its services, assuming money and possibly donations come in as a result of the documentary? I'd like to think so, I'll be checking news on LRW now, hoping this will blossom into something really helpful to those who (still) need it most.
7
The most puzzling aspect of this story is, how did she become this calm, strong woman while remaining in the heart of the community where all this happened? After much thought I realized that leaving would have meant that, for the rest of her life, she would have had to hide from what happened. There would be the tension of having to go through it all again if someone recognized her in a new setting.
Living through the accusations, jokes, hostility, and anger meant that she was there for the understanding and support of the community to emerge, and ultimately she was there to help other women escape from domestic violence.
Such courage deserves respect.
31
I remember the incident well, the media and public outrage towards her. Even as a young person, I knew that there were many women who wished they could do the same. I know I did.
6
She is a national hero to me. Not for what she did, but for who she is.
17
There is no excuse for what this woman did; she clearly had other options to stop the abuse she says she was enduring. In a civilized country there is never an excuse for mutilating another individual, no matter what the provocation.
8
Sad to admit I was one of those men who basically thought Lorena should have been sentenced to death. But thoughts and attitudes evolve over time and also because of Lorena's stories and other women who have shared similar experiences in the past.
Its not as if myself and other men would ever mistreat a woman, its just that we did not stand up for those women and condemn the men, and demand punishment, for abusing women.
The governor of Virginia is currently in trouble for a picture depicting racism. Well that was 35 years ago, and just as myself and others have evolved concerning sexual assault, most likely the governor no longer believes in the racism the photo depicts.
9
In Australia we have just over one domestic homicide a week (that we know of).
I always remember a lawyer in the 80's saying she 'imagined thousands of women all over the country turning on their radios at 5.30 pm to listen to the traffic report in the hope that their (violent) husband would be in the next fatal accident.'
I reckon that number hasn't diminished in the 30 years since. Family violence and sexual assault statistics remain at the same (or higher) levels.
So many women and children's lives impacted by male violence and entitlement.
29
I’m not sure why this article talks so much about people not ‘understanding’ what was really going on with the rape and domestic violence this woman endured. I was in my early 20s then and I fully understood this story back then. I was not confused. I find it hard to believe that other people were supposedly confused. Refusing to acknowledge the DV issue is more like it. Let’s please not keep pretending that we’ve all somehow evolved. Women are speaking out in a way Lorena wasn’t allowed to back then. That’s the only thing that is different now. And Lorena had to wait 26 years for that opportunity and to feel safe to do so. That is a travesty. This same problem is just as bad today as it was back then. We need to honor Lorena’s sacrifices by actually doing something about it.
28
I have always felt that police have it right. When one of their own is killed in the line of duty, police from all over come for the funeral and march as a show of force. The message is strong. I have always seen it as "You will not kill one of us without consequence." I have always wanted to start a movement for women killed by domestic violence that when a women is killed by a partner, we march in numbers of thousands so we send a message: "You will not kill one of us without consequence." Maybe in a few generations it could ripple back to marches of women who are just raped, battered, and beaten or have broken arms and ribs (those can be covered by clothes). Women are instilled with the fear of violence from a stranger. This violence is almost always perpetrated by someone they know. It has been difficult to explain the "me too" movement. One doesn't have to have been hurt personally to feel strongly about all of this and want the world to change - at least our corner of it.
52
@MB Police also never ever stop one of their own from harassing, brutalizing, assaulting, raping or murdering a member of the public. And if pushed they will lie about it under oath in full knowledge that other police officers and their judge/prosecutor enablers will turn a literal blind eye to their misdeeds.
So maybe acting like a predatory Mafia family aka the police isn't the best way to go.
4
This is everything: "It occurred to me that there would be no documentary, no Bobbitt jokes or permanent place in popular culture, had John severed some vital piece of Lorena."
I hope as a result of the movie, she will get ample resources to make her dreams of helping women come true. It's not clear that she will.
I hope this isn't Amazon and Peele taking advantage and reaping outsized rewards from a woman's misfortune. As men tend to do.
24
Good article. Sad story. Glad to see she seems to have come out whole.That is almost incredible, and certainly a testimony to her strength of character.
19
This article misses the courage this woman has shown. She's an incredible survivor of something few people could overcome. At the time of the event, the media helped foster the mistaken idea she was criminally guilty. I never knew she was released. Her refusal to move away from Virginia points to her bravery. I don't think what she did to John Bobbit has "defined her." I think what she has done since has defined her more!
36
In the eighties I lived in Tasmania and had friends "in the projects" where people on welfare lived. Julie was married to a chronically unemployed man who "drank". One day she showed up at our women's group with a black eye. " I must have got in the way," she said laconically. I got a Christmas card from her and it sounds as if she is still with this guy.
2
I find it truly discouraging that somehow her moments of temporary insanity are not taken seriously by anyone. I do understand the arguments on both sides. But before coming to this she could have just left the relationship. There are women's shelters in the areas where she lived. I do not defend any man's abusive physical behavior. However to think that her response had validity is beyond comprehension. As one of the comments said, if a man had cut off a woman's body part the response would be completely different. We live in a very dangerous and unfortunate age.
4
You have misunderstood this point: If a man cut off a woman's body part, the author's point is that it would have received no attention and none of us would know anything about it.
10
Many women understand now, and did understand then, what Lorena did. We got it. If we expressed our understanding, gasps of horror were heard from the listener - as if we were somehow deranged, too. How sad that so many men do not realize that their manhood is not about their penis. Real men don't rape.
41
@Celeste L
You absolutely misunderstood what people object here. She butchered a man with a kitchen knife, for something he later was absolutely acquitted for. If anyone can support that kind of vigilantism, they themselves deserve to live unprotected by the rules of law we have setup as a society. What if some girlfriend of your son did that to him on dubious and unsupported claims? Would you still support her as a hero? I suppose not. Therein lies your hypocrisy. The Bobbit woman should have spent decades in the worst prison for what she did, and people who encourage others to follow her example are inciting to attempted murder, which is a felony itself.
1
Men: stop hurting women!
29
@hey nineteen Which Bobbitt was maimed and suffered the loss of a body part?
1
@hey nineteen I would like to hear what Phil Hartman has to say about "men hurting women" . But that's right, a woman murdered him so we can't get his opinion.
This article is also a telling example of another instance of a woman-portrayed-by-litigation in a totally erroneous way.
It never did make it into the public consciousness that the then Mrs. Bobbitt was acquitted, apparently because of the long history of abuse and a rape on the night of the incident.
Similarly, in that similarly still mentioned McDonald's coffee scalding case, it is rarely mentioned that the victim received such severe burns on her private parts that skin grafts were required.
It is hard to think of well known cases in which a male victim is made a figure of fun and derision.
Whatever the victim's sex, litigation sound bites can linger ...
12
After reading some of these comments and clearly seeing the victim being revictimized, it's no wonder why abused women don't leave. It's a thought train of ignorant comments that make women like me afraid to speak up! I'd rather be abused by one person rather than a whole crowd. How can we "just leave" and speak out when we will not be believed? Knowing our truth will be minimized, invalidated and compared is one main reason we stay. People don't get that our minds are clouded from years of abuse and brainwashing. You can't judge that unless you've been through it. We aren't stupid or weak, we are scared. When you have no money of your own, health issues, kids, bad credit etc you can't just "leave". It's not that simple and is very complex. Personally I think some of these comments made on here are from abusers because no man says things like that. Lorena is an extremely brave woman, made the wrong choice without thinking, endured more abuse after that guy was out of her life, and yet is out there helping others. What John doing? Being an arrogant abuser and pervert. If he were innocent he wouldn't be making money off of "it". She did the right thing, although I think she should shine a spotlight on dv and use the money to help others flee their situations. I'm glad she's talking and wish her much healing as her wounds are by far worse than John's. Thank you Lorena, keep going forward, don't give up.
800
@Dark Places
And if you have kids, they will end up alone with the abuser. More often than not, he is given sole custody.
48
@india
You’re exactly right! And often, the violent creep will turn to raping his own children instead. Rape is about power and control and harming another. Children are far more vulnerable and an abuser WILL turn his fixations with hurting others on them. They’re far more defenseless. Women in these awful situations are trapped... I really believe this .
@Dark Places- my heart goes out to you!! I’m stuck in a situation myself... he’s in DV therapy and classes but I don’t know if they will do anything
42
@Dark PlacesSo she's the victim being victimized, isn't she? Pray tell, what part of her body was cut off? And your malicious assumption that those who are appalled by her action must be abusers themselves is beneath contempt.
8
Revisionist history, of course!
4
A great article. But, it just amazes me that people don't seem to get that there are bad people of every walk of life, always have been. Yes, there are abusers, cheaters, manipulators, thieves, murderers, pedophiles, you name it, that are of every gender, every race, every religion, every occupation, every country, every economic income level. For Pete's sake, doesn't anybody read history? This has been going on for centuries. This is why Lady Justice is supposed to be blind. Because the specific features of the perpetrator and victim are not relevant. A crime is a crime and we need to punish criminals equally, according to our laws, and treat victims with equality as well. We also need to stop vilifying victims, that is a moral outrage. And please, can we remove the horrible excuse for a human being currently in the WH?
5
Legally, one typically uses the word “alleged” when discussing accusations.
5
I believe her.
12
@Char
I don't.
Thank you for publishing this article. Wow. I was a thirteen year old girl when this story came out and the only message I remember hearing was that he was the victim, not her. That she was crazy and men across America should now fear their unstable wives. And that already was quite a mature topic for a young teen to digest. I had absolutely no idea of abuse or "marital" rape (and ugh, what a ridiculous term! a term invented by a man most likely?). It makes me feel terribly sad, and also guilty to have perpetuated this false narrative so long. So many women suffer in silence for domestic violence (verbal and physical) and what absolute courage it must take from Ms. Gallo to have decided to speak about it despite what people thought, and helping others in need. Bravo for this higher calling. Showing her face every day and continuing to live in the town she calls home, finding the daily strength to continually rise above the laughter (reminds me of Ms. Blasey Ford's testimony). I hope more people will read this article and talk about it, for her sake. Who's the real survivor here, is a question we don't even need to ask!
23
A superbly well written piece. When the past is the prologue...
Lorena Gallo for President!
8
"It occurred to me that there would be no documentary, no Bobbitt jokes or permanent place in popular culture, had John severed some vital piece of Lorena. "
THIS.
40
It was 1980--14 years before Lorena's incident -- that Francine Hughes' story came out about her incredible abuse. Francine actually murdered her ex-husband (who still lived with her) and was one of the first cases using 'battered woman syndrome' (she was found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity).
"The Burning Bed" book in 1980 by Faith McNulty and the movie starring Farrah Fawcet in 1984 raised awareness about domestic violence, but obviously it was not attitude changing.
I can't believe some of these letters. Obviously, no amount of evidence will be enough for some to believe she could have went into a survival mode and committed that horrific act. Rape isn't sex...it's a violent assault....and she withstood it for years.
Kudos to Lorena for not just surviving, but thriving.
66
i remember the incident well, the jokes, etc. Glad she was able to pick up the pieces, no pun intended, and go forward with her life.
14
Lets put this in context of intimate partner violence. She maimed him and then told the police where to look for the "member". She didn't kill him. Had the shoe been on the other foot, he probably would have killed her. He might have gotten acquitted for a crime of passion or 3-5 for manslaughter because he was in a "blinding rage" and been out in about two years for good behavior. I say she went easy on him. Had she done nothing, he may have killed her the next time he beat her.
45
Unless you have ever found yourself in a very, very similar situation there is no way you can pass judgement and even then I wonder that it is possible. The comments are unsurprising in that so many people still believe they know the answer when really they don't. You are you, you are not them.
19
"She hopes to open her own shelter." What's stopping her. I hope to be a billionaire. It's the thought that counts. Ladies, get outside help before you decide to just...cut it off.
4
It was felonious assault no matter how you "slice" it. She should've done 10 years in prison, had it been a man that did the exact same thing he would've gotten 20 years, tears or no tears.
18
It is possible to feel sorry for this person, conclude she was abused and yet think she went about a response the wrong way.
13
Is it just me? When I look at her photos and see her eyes, she seems very cold. No love or laughter in those eyes. If the eyes are the window to soul then she looks mean, not just mean, but scary mean. She scares me.
11
@Britton Laroche Well, may be you should look at more photos of abuse victims. And then, for example, at photos of veterans with PTSD. And then think about why, indeed, there is no laughter in eyes of victims, only cold. How dare they be traumatized, indeed!
6
It is possible for Lorena Gallo to have been a victim of AND perpetrator of domestic violence. Her desperate act of retribution was still an act of violence committed on a sleeping person. I'm glad she's be able to move on, because she deserves that. This situation is tragic because there are no winners. No one was right. In an attempt to revise history, it's important to acknowledge that much of the media attention focused on what she did, and not enough focused on what was done to her. However, saying "I wonder what he did to make her do that?" is the same as saying, "I wonder what she did to make him do that?" It's justifying violence by suggesting it was provoked. Historical power differentials, statistics about who perpetrates violence more, don't change the fact that violence is wrong.
7
While domestic violence is deplorable, nothing justified what she did.
17
@J Darby I completely disagree. He is lucky she did not him. Isn’t that what they say to women who were raped?
3
This woman had to have remarkable resilience and strength to survived the soul-crushing media fest and create a good life for herself.
Thank you for this story, this perspective. Domestic violence is a major cause of unnatural death for women - an inconvenient and under-emphasized fact.
21
The stories of abusive control in these comments point to the fact that men who lack control in other parts of their lives sometimes turn to sexual control to compensate. I urge any man who senses that tis might be a problem to get professional help before you hurt someone else.
11
@George - Unfortunately, this is never going to happen. These types of men are on the Personality Disorder spectrum and do not see themselves as they truly are. They are either psychopaths or sociopaths, or a bit of both, and take no responsibility whatsoever for their culpability, and never will. Lorena Gallo's action was extreme, but she was at the end of her tether. Until one has been in a similar situation, they will never fully understand how desperation can lead one to take such action (especially if you feel you have nowhere, and no one to whom, you can turn). Misogyny aside, historically, women of color get no sympathy or empathy when they seek help or tell their stories.
12
My cousin (a young woman in her twenties) works in TV news. Last year, she was assigned to go pick up John Bobbitt for an interview. He came down to greet her naked and told her he had nothing to wear to try to get a reaction out of her. She marched up to his bedroom, grabbed clothes out of his drawers, threw them at him, and told him to knock it off. He had the opportunity to sexually harass a pretty young woman who couldn't walk away from him without hurting her career, so he took it. Fortunately, she wasn't thrown, but it speaks volumes about what kind of man he still is.
I believe Lorena.
97
@S.M. Holy cow!
8
---"They found it, put it on ice in a Big Bite hot dog box..."
Uh...As the well-worn expression goes, one..."can't make this stuff up." Thank you! While I hesitated reading this article, that one line made it worthwhile...perfect.
5
This is admittedly a rare case. Occasionally women who have had to endure slavery and sexual abuse seeking employment in Arab countries have resorted to this.
Far more commonplace- and condoned in the societies that practice it- is the vaginal mutilation that women are forced to suffer in Islamic and African cultures.
9
I am so glad that she is free from his clutches. I was raped by a guy that I was engaged to, needless to say, I left him. I am here for you Ms. Lorena, I understand why you did what you did. I will not judge anyone because it is not my job. I am so glad that there is someone out there getting the message out there.
16
Worst. Girlfriend. EVER!!!
5
@Dr. Planarian
C'mon, she did direct police where to find the missing piece. That has to count for something.
5
Looking at their wedding photograph, I was somehow overcome with sadness. I don't know why, but they looked so sweet together, so young and full of hope for a happy future.
4
"It occurred to me that there would be no documentary, no Bobbitt jokes or permanent place in popular culture, had John severed some vital piece of Lorena."
You pointed out a damning and devastating truth.
Violence against women is so routine, so common, so woven throughout our society that it's rarely seen or acknowledged. It never makes headlines and continues to be minimized.
That Lorena was able to create meaning and create an organization to help survivors of domestic violence is a tribute to her strength and compassion.
Thank you for this article.
74
@Lisa there would be no need to do a documentary because nobody would be rooting for the redemption of a man who cut off his wife’s breasts or clitoris while she was sleeping. There would have been clear consensus that whatever the wife had done prior, the husband was clearly in the wrong to mutilate her in her sleep. Remember that guy in Florida who killed his wife, posted her corps on Facebook, and then claimed she had been abusing him? There was zero sympathy for that man. We have laws against vigilantism for good reason, and that’a a firewall that should remain.
2
I am totally against men abusing women. However, there is also a lot of abuse the other way as well. It is often not reported because men will be ridiculed for turning to the authorities if they are suffering abuse. They are also not taken serious by the police and authorities in many cases.
Thank God the police and court saw through the nonsense I went through with two twin sisters I dated. Not at thew same time, of course. But each one put me through emotional and even physical abuse. They also relieved me of around one hundred thousand dollars!
I am glad Lorena was able to free herself from the abuse she suffered. I am also happy to hear she is proactively doing something to help others in this regard. Nevertheless, as a man I do cringe when I hear her story. Cutting off the penis...kind of puts all of us males on guard! Even those of us who do not abuse women!
2
There might not be a documentary had the gender roles been reversed. But there certainly wouldn't be articles contextualizing and excusing acts of horrific violence either.
5
@RLL
No one is excusing horrific acts of violence. But I suspect, somehow, you don't really understand that rape is a horrific act of violence. When a woman has been raped repeatedly, you bet that's context. Especially when the person who raped her is someone she has to live with day to day, for years. That's a person whose experience is so hellish most cannot imagine it if they have not lived it. That's a victim who snapped. That's a victim who was pushed to her limits of endurance, who was tortured until she was broken and reached a mental extreme where she lost control of herself.
SHOULD she have cut off his penis, of course she should not have cut off his penis, but fortunately, our justice system, and public opinion to a large extent, has come to understand that a person can snap when they are the victim of repeated horrific acts of violence.
It's only if you have no idea the extent and horror of what she went through that you can whine that we shouldn't "contextualize" the person's crime.
I admit what she did was a crime. You should admit that the context of her crime matters in assessing it. She did a very bad thing after extreme provocation, under extreme duress over an extended period. She has apparently done a lot of good things as a result of her experience.
13
@RLL To whose act of horrific violence do you refer? Her one act of violence or his years upon years of violence against Lorena and other women, including the rape for which he was sent to prison?
12
Lorena Bobbitt is a sexual mutilator. People, including the writer of this article, who celebrate or try to justify that are just a despicable as Lorena Bobbitt. Repeat after me "There is nothing that justifies sexual mutilation on a man or woman." PERIOD! If you're in an abusive relationship, you leave. PERIOD! Seriously, what is wrong with people? Don't you realize you lose the moral high ground when you actively or tacitly agree with this criminal and heinous crime?
17
@Brian
Point to one poster here who has actively or tacitly "agreed" with this crime.
Our criminal justice system does take mitigating factors and provocation into account when judging a crime. Sorry.
9
@Brian You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately this article, and almost all of the comments, seem to justify Lorena Bobbitt's behavior as a perfectly acceptable response to abuse - and as you said, if you're in an abusive relationship you leave, in a civilized country you don't mutilate someone - ever.
1
If you read the case, you'll realize it's impossible to sympathize with this woman. The real story, as left out by the Times:
1. Shortly after calling the police, she told them "He always have orgasm and he doesn't wait for me to have orgasm," she told a police lieutenant hours after the incident. "He's selfish. I don't think it's fair, so I pulled back the sheets then and I did it."
2. John filed for divorce only a few days before she cut off his penis.
If Lorena is a victim of anything, it's a personality disorder. There is no reason to do what she did, and anybody trying to justify it should see a therapist. Both she and John are strong arguments for free mental healthcare.
20
Why should we be surprised. There are movies that aggrandize violence. Deeply disturbing and graphic violence. And their trailers are shown during prime time television. I stopped watching a couple of channels because even though I chose to watch normal shows, these advertisements came on during them.
But, show a bit of vulva or penis, or too much sexy stuff, and it's immediately rated X. Two people who love each other making love in a kind beautiful way is strictly relegated to porn. If it's some sicko trapping people in a house for torture, we allow it. That it has taken this long for us to accept that domestic violence is actually a crime no matter their relationship to each other is the only surprise to me. Thank god things are changing.
5
Ahh OK, she didn't mean to do it, so it's fine. Gotcha. As others have rightly pointed out, "reaching the end of your rope" can also manifest itself by LEAVING, especially since he was admittedly ASLEEP. And while rape is terrible (although this is a case of _alleged_ rape), cutting off body parts while the amputee sleeps is on quite a different level.
14
Good grief. The quote from Howard Stern...He became a fixture on “The Howard Stern Show.” “I don’t even buy that he was raping her,” Stern said on one segment with John. “She’s not that great looking.” How that man has carried on unscathed by public opinion is beyond me. I guess I'm a dinosaur. His shock jock shtick is loathsome and beyond tiresome.
32
@AM
sounds just like his buddy, trump....
7
@AM I have no idea why anyone would listen to Howard Stern. I listened once years ago, for probably less than 10 minutes, and never again. He's disgusting. A story like this one deserves to be looked at with its complexities, not reduced to a creepy joke. If you're a dinosaur, then I guess I am too.
2
My uncle did a "Sonny Corleone" on another of my uncles who was beating up my aunt. He caught him in the act. He shoved my uncle up against the wall and said "If you touch my sister again I will kill you." Shortly after that they got divorced. Too bad Lorena didn't have a brother to protect her.
8
@susan Wait a minute....Isn't the violent protection of female relatives part of patriarchal"toxic masculinity"? I thought modern men were supposed to avoid violence and threats in favor of crying it out over a latte.
And why would a man assume a woman needed a man to fight for her. That seems pretty sexist to me.
Unless of course..patriarchy has some positives that for some reason many feminists never mention.
This woman got class: She turns down a $1 million offer to pose nude and probably many other lucrative ones.
That man has none: He prostitutes himself at any opportunity to make a buck.
37
This monster should be serving a life sentence.
6
She couldn't leave? She couldn't call the police? She couldn't file for divorce? Or go to a shelter?
No, of course not. She did what she had to do, so that she could become a blonde and walk around with a Louis Vuitton bag!
If her husband had mutilated her, would we have been reading the complement of this story? I doubt it - Ms Chozick would have kept hunting for a wounded female.
8
I never laughed at her. Not once.
14
I was surprised and disappointed that the NYT felt it important to point out that Ms. Bobbitt, a native of Ecuador, spoke "...in still accented English".
That "still" seems to hint at a failure to assimilate or to correctly speak the language of her adopted country, when an accent does not have anything to do with fluency or comprehension.
Would anyone accuse Jacques Pepin or Arnold Schwarzenegger of "still" speaking "accented English"?
Probably not, because a French, German or other northern European accent doesn't connote any perceived lack of education or imply any socio-economic group other than white and middle class.
Having lived in Italy since 1992 and "still" speaking a very accented Italian, maybe I’m just overly sensitive to these kinds of observations.
19
@Carla Van Kampen embrace your accent and your background. Nothing wrong with it. But this woman should be in jail.
5
The not guilty verdict was a gross miscarriage of justice, and evidence that "women's rights" politicians have acquired far too much power over the media and the courts. A man who maimed a woman in so grievous fashion would never have gotten less than a life sentence. That her hideous crime went unpunished is only slightly more outrageous than the NYT choice to present this monster in a sympathetic light.
8
@J L S F Yet he did maim her...several times.
4
What a very one-sided and biased view of the history of events in this story. Lorena may be better now, but that so many people are willing to excuse what she did is very problematic and news pieces like the one here do nothing but increase the likelihood that more women will be held unaccountable for their crimes.
Go back and read the information that came out during the time. Lorena was not anywhere close to the saint this current fluff tries to pretend she is.
17
I like Jordan Peele, and his comedy, but I wonder if he could not taken a different tact, namely that, though some see humor, in it, look at why that is, deconstruct it, and reveal that when all is said and done, there is nothing to laugh at.
As someone who has been raped, I come at this from a biased point of view, but I felt some ambivalence, and a bit of defeat, when the article says Lorena told Jordan it was for him to explore the humor.
It sounded like an assaulted woman, resigned, once again, to a man re-imagining her story.
Perhaps Peele imagines the documentary helping other men see Lorena's pain by accessing the humor, but, if it takes that approach for someone to realize the pain of her abuse, it's utterly depressing that one's humaneness has to be accessed that way in this instance.
After seeing the brilliance in Peele's "Get Out!", I will hold out a bit of hope that what one is left with is the underlying sense of how insidious and disempowering it might be for someone to have to accept that the only way someone would be able to see their pain is by first laughing at them.
If it gets one to be able to cry and empathize with them at end, will it have been worth it?
It's hard to imagine that I would not seethe at thought a bit, if I were Lorena, and she acknowledges that. I also imagine if a woman were producing or telling this story, humor might not be a selling point.
4
I appreciate this well written article. Keep up the good work Amy.
5
We watch movies and shows about outrageous things and are entertained. When these things happen in real life we find them entertaining and forget that their are real, suffering people involved. I would never condone violence but can understand why people would feel they have no other recourse. I think there are more opportunities for abused women to get help these days, but there are still a lot of awful men out there who give the rest of us a bad name and are still able to do a lot of damage.
7
Even in the times of #MeToo I feel like domestic violence has always been the least publicized part of the fight for Women's right.
You'll find plenty of traction for the fights against harassment or for equal opportunity and equal pay, for domestic violence, not so much.
It's pure speculation on my part but I think it is similar to the enduring representation of rapists as dirty strangers in forlorn urban landscapes even though we know the vast majority of rapists are close acquaintances of their victims. In both cases reality brings these crimes too close to home and family and that makes many people (of both gender) too uncomfortable to properly consider them.
So thank you for this article. As a child of the 80's I can say I had absolutely no recollection of the domestic violence aspect of this "urban tale".
694
In the early 1970s I was repetitively raped by my handsome and popular college boyfriend. He was too good to be true for the first year and then the rapes began. He told me he would kill my mother and then me if I left him. I believed him. It took me another year to figure out an escape plan. I applied to an out of state college for grad school and was accepted. It was a ten hour drive from my boyfriend, who was working a job he loved, so I knew he would not follow me there. He even drove me to move into my apartment at grad school, assuming I would move back home when I finished and we would get married. That was the last night he raped me. I'll never forget him driving out of the parking lot to go back home. I finally felt safe. There was no one I could turn to back then. No one understood relationship rape, particularly not the police. That same boyfriend wrote me an email three years ago acting like nothing happened and wanted to see me. I have been paying a reputation service to keep my address off the internet. A person who wants to control another person sometimes never gives up. I have never told anyone this story, not even my girlfriends, until #MeToo.
1367
@Anais
As a rape survivor I understand. I recounted one of my experiences in reply to Boone Callaway in this article, but the Times hasn’t yet posted it. I too have been and sometimes are to afraid to speak of the men who assaulted me. I’m working on telling. That is what they are afraid of. Rapists are afraid of women telling. We should not live in shame, the perpetrators should!
160
@Anais I'm so sorry you've had to live with this all these years.
118
@Anais Stay strong, Anais. You have friends around you.
101
Fealty to this violent person is misplaced. The fact that she is a woman doesn't change or excuse the fact that she is the aggressor who severed a body part, not him. Her act is inexcusable.
13
Hold on while I wipe the tears from my eyes. The poor misunderstood , oppressed woman. She cuts it off while he is asleep and it changes HER life. Right.
15
I am against violence of all kinds. Imagine an abused man who cut his wife's breast off as an act of vengeance. Now put an arrogant looking picture of him up (nose in the air).
This almost seems demeaning to men and women alike.
13
She left after, and there was nothing to stop her from leaving before. If the guy was so out o fit that she could sever his penis and walk out the door tells me she could have just walked out the door. I'm simply not buying this excuse - she is a malicious monster acting with full knowledge and intent, and any woman who commits violence in revenge for the abuse she's suffered instead of simply leaving (the burning bed defense) is a criminal deserving punishment to the full extent of the law with no 'temporary insanity' cop-outs.
8
"And just like that, a straight iron and some hair dye and the scared young woman splashed on the cover of tabloids morphed into the sophisticated advocate who now sat across from me."
Enjoyed the article, but this sentence really bothered me. Why so much focus on her hair? Changing her hair did not make her into a sophisticated advocate. Years of therapy and working to bring awareness to domestic violence did.
Also, I'm sick of the curly, dark hair = bad. But she straightened her hair and dyed it blonde so now she's sophisticated!
16
@NC 100% agree with you. As a person with dark, curly hair, no one takes me seriously unless I've straightened it. People have told me horrible things related to my hair; example: (from a guy I was dating) - I'd never marry a woman with curly hair; I wouldn't want our kids to have curly hair; (from a friend's new girlfriend upon learning I had a graduate degree) "Oh, I thought you were just a party girl because of your hair"... I mean, seriously! I know it sounds petty, but I really thought that line in the article took away everything else the author had to say.
15
For what it’s worth, the (female) author comments in the article that she and Ms. Gallo both have naturally curly hair, so in this instance, the focus on hair probably has more to do with their shared experience than underlying sexism or othering.
2
I have red curly hair that I haven't straightened in years. I personally don't let any of these sorts of opinions make the decision about how I wear my hair. I love my color (I have never used hair dye in all of my 53 years) and I love my curl. Period.
3
This story has two sides which doesn't suit our current climate well. I lived the next county over from Lorena for most of my life and have loosely followed her whereabouts since the 90's through others' sightings of her and people in the DC area seem to never get tired of this story, including myself.
John Wayne Bobbitt (even the name you couldn't make up) ultimately proved himself to be an horrendous person. Lorena has acquitted herself both legally and professionally and is seen mostly now as a sympathetic character.
It is no surprise what she did and the retrieval of the "evidence" into a 7-11 hot dog box became fodder for comedy. How could it not be? Some of those jokes practically wrote themselves. Pain and insanity fuel funny and this case had its share of both. I don't fault comics for getting all the mileage they got out of this story.
Having said that, it was an horrific act to dismember someone and she walked. Not everyone agrees justice was completely served here. I believe her husband was physical with her. I just think she should have reached for her keys and a phone before reaching for that knife to do what she did (still makes me cringe thinking about it). She wasn't in imminent danger at that fateful moment. He was asleep. Call the cops and have him thrown in jail/prison if he's committed a crime.
I can't wait to see the documentary. Maybe it will change my mind. As I said, some of us never tire of this story.
5
@Darrell
I don't think you quite understand. If she had called the cops and said he has raped me repeatedly, it is highly unlikely they would have hauled him off to jail, and even if they did, he'd be out in 24 hours and continue to torment her. Some women get to a breaking point.
9
@DW
I grew up with a big athlete monster who hit my mother with closed fists. I get it. Mom eventually threw him out. Restraining orders are another option on top of that. I just don't think violence should be dealt with the way Lorena dealt with it. The old adage is true. If he hits you once he almost certainly will again. I know it's hard but these men have to disposed of immediately...without a knife, though.
3
First Tonya and now Lorena: criminal women become feminist icons - oh, wait, in the current optics women can not be criminals, only men. And so the polarization gets deeper and deeper. So, get the knives out, boys and girls and let's slice away.
6
The guy bragged about taking his wife. She should have cut his tested as well. In some countries they medically castrate rapists. Maybe we should as well?
8
@M you've summed up modern feminism so well.
5
It's been open season on American men ever since.
5
@God
It has been “open season” on women everywhere for aeons.
57
@BMUS
Men who sexually mutilate women or burn them in their beds go to prison for life. Women, on the other hand, become heroes for mutilating and murdering.
9
@God
Have you not heard of female genital mutilation (FGM)?
Young girls have their genitals mutilated everyday in some cultures the world over including the US. It’s done to make them more attractive to men as potential wives. It’s done to make men more secure in the knowledge that their future wife won’t stray or enjoy sex.
Though a federal law banning the practice was passed in 1996 it took over 20 years before anyone was arrested and prosecuted. Unfortunately, a judge dismissed the case claiming the law was unconstitutional. No one has gone to prison in the US for doing this. Violence against females young and old is tacitly condoned.
www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/health/fgm-female-genital-mutilation-law.html
www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/health/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-explainer-trnd/index.html
13
Reading in this article that John still writes Lorena love letters put a chill down my spine.
34
Bravo! Great job!
1
I came to this story via the reporter's Twitter post, which named storytellers at the time such as Charlie Rose, Geraldo Rivera, Al Franken and Howard Stern. I've wondered, in the wake of #MeToo, and the disgrace of formerly respected journalists like Charlie Rose, how many of the news stories we followed over the years were told with their (previously unknown) dark biases against women. Thanks for the example, Amy Chozick.
35
I believe her story of rape because she took from him the weapon of his assault. Her act I believe has also done more to curtail spousal sexual abuse against women, than even any murder, or manslaughter cases, could ever hope to achieve.
16
If a man mutilated a woman, there would be no NY Times article making him into the victim. No matter what happened before hand. Anything that may have happened to Lorena beforehand does not justify what she did. Before you form an opinion on a gender based issue, reverse the role of the man and woman and ask yourself honestly if you'd then still feel the same way. He is no saint, but what she did is horrific and unjustifiable.
14
@BMUS It seems that you're claiming the genital mutilation of young girls is bad; so isn't it also bad to mutilate the genitals of men?
1
@Peter
Young girls have their genitals mutilated everyday in some cultures the world over to make them more attractive to men, or to make men more secure in the knowledge that their future wife won’t stray or enjoy sex.
Lorena Bobbitt stood her ground and disarmed her husband of his weapon of choice.
6
Lorena is a very remarkable woman with a compelling story. However, this article is so poorly written, I found myself zoning out. I look forward to the documentary.
1
Even way back then, women had choices. She could have and should have left, rather than commit a hideous act of domestic violence of her own. Articles like this allow women to be the victim. We are not victims.
9
At the time, I felt she'd have saved herself a lot of trouble if she'd simply thrown out the TV remote control (in 1989, they were still manually tunable).
I feel very ambivalent about this one, especially this part: "there would, inevitably, be comedy in this retelling". Violence committed by men on women is (rightfully) framed as tragic. Violence committed by women on men if, no matter how gory, framed as comic. It's time to change that discourse, for it's demeaning both to man, and to women ("ah ah, see, women are so weak, they are not even able to do *real* harm". urgh.)
210
@EV
Totally agree. There is nothing amusing about mutilating a fellow human being.
15
@EV I think Peele is saying that they have to openly acknowledge the humor in which our society has judged this incident before introducing the viewer into the true darkness of Lorena's story (and other victims that John has abused).
54
@JR Ross: Absolutely. And there is no way to tell this story without dealing with all the jokes (whether appropriate or not) that attached to it. There also is an undeniably perverse and dark humor about "the search for the missing member" which cannot be avoided.
None of the above removes, in any way, the awful abuse that Lorena Gallo suffered nor diminishes acknowledgment of same.
57
I look forward one day to a calmer, more relaxed America where people can have a cup of coffee or other refreshment without having to grab it.
2
Great reporting. Thank you. I will watch the documentary.
10
@Balthazar This would make a great sit-com.
1
I don't see any reason to doubt her version of the story, given his background with women and having been a Marine. But like everyone else who has been victimized, the media and the public see a raw piece of meat and like voracious hyenas, fight over it until nothing is left.
17
@Blue Guy in Red State
My dad was a Marine. If I say what I want to say to you, this will never get printed. Use your imagination and then multiply by 10.
7
Thank you for this article. When "the incident" occurred, I had already spent several years working at a safe house for abused women, so it never occurred to me that Lorena had NOT been abused. I am grateful for the role she has taken on now.
It concerns me that this renewed publicity will bring out those who wish her harm. I hope I am wrong.
I wish her and her family the very best.
61
I would hope that the many commenters who speak harshly about Lorena's attack on her abusive husband also powerfully raise their voices when they hear of the much more common violence perpetrated by (mostly men) against women and children.
Of course, what she did was horrible. But it is no more horrible than the kinds of domestic violence that occur on a daily basis all around us. Rape, beatings, murder are so common that we almost get used to them. It is only when the victim is a man that people sit up and take notice.
It is important for every victim--male or female--to be taken seriously, and given the protection he or she needs to live in safety and peace.
124
@Barbara women are responsible for most child abuse and neglect. When will you raise your voice against those women?
3
@Matt I will say to you what I said to another person here with a similar viewpoint.
Whataboutisim does not solve the problem. What it does instead, is make you and other like you, Matt, feel better about accepting the status quo. That way, you don't have to think about how you may have contributed to the problem or how you can fix it. Not that I think you want to fix anything.
12
@Matt
You are wrong. Women get most of the blame for child abuse and neglect, but some research indicates that, while both mothers and fathers physically abuse their children, more than twice as many participants in one survey reported abuse by the father, and while another study showed somewhat more abuse by mothers, this was attributed to the much greater time mothers spend with the children than the fathers and the greater, more immediate burden of care they bear. Moreover, fathers perpetrate more severe abuse than mothers, and the statistics are even more dire for stepchildren. See, just for example, https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/who-abuses-children
This is a report from Australia but cites figures from other British and American sources as well. And sadly, Western societies are not the worst.
6
We elevate criminals to the White House. So why not do another feature on one?
Proud and defiant is the only way to describe the photo accompanying the story. Like so many trashy people on Judge Judy Sheindlin's television soap opera, who will do anything self-immolating in order to get that 15 minutes of television fame, Bobbit seems at once proud and miffed that Americans joke about her life-changing decision. She changes her name, but apparently craves publicity still.
No wonder our children are bewildered at us. There are so many uplifting and ingenious women that Americans could look up to, but we twitter about with Bobbitt, Tonya Harding, or any other who makes an idiot of herself.
John W. Bobbitt went on to be charged with assaulting an exotic dancer in Nevada. The judge told him his problem was caused by "excessive drinking." Despite her domestic violence work, Lorena was charged with punching out her mother. So one has a bit of difficulty figuring out whether this was a nightmare, or a match made in heaven.
AA surely would counsel the Times, "Avoid drunks and their drama."
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The most important part of this article is at the beginning: "John was charged with marital sexual assault. (He was acquitted.)"
The court tried and acquitted him. She cut off his member and served less than a year. Think about that - less than a year.
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@kz You seemed to have missed the context of his acquittal: at the time, domestic violence and marital rape still wasn't widely considered a crime.
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@IX You seem to have missed the context of his acquittal: he was on trial for those crimes, and was acquitted. Regardless of the average person's opinion, they were literally crimes, and he was acquitted. That means it's wrong to act as if he's guilty of domestic violence.
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@kz She did not "serve" a year. She was not convicted. She spent a year in mental hospital.
Re: "there would be no documentary, no Bobbitt jokes or permanent place in popular culture, had John severed some vital piece of Lorena." ....
This sort of thing, genital mutilation, happens pretty often to lots of women - in parts of Africa, Asia and the Middle East - as a form of female circumcision. I can't imagine the uproar there would be if the same procedure done on women, in most cases a complete removal of an organ, was also performed on men.
Sad.
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@Marjan While FGM is an abhorrent practice, it pales in comparison to what this lady did.
Not that this is really germane, but fwiw millions of boys are genitally mutilated every year and nobody bats an eyelash. How about we dial back the hyperbolic outrage we're using to justify not caring as much as we should about the despicable thing this lady did.
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@M
I'm confused. How exactly does genital mutilation of women and children "pale in comparison"? Because they are female?
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@M Male circumcision is performed on infants who have no later memory of it, and has several health benefits. Female mutilation is very painful, and is designed to control women and make them unavailable to anyone but their future husband in a forced marriage. Your umbrage over an exceedingly rare act performed by a desperate woman not only rings false but also minimizes what he did to her.
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Odd there's no mention of Lorena's later arrest for violently assaulting her mother - https://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/08/us/bobbitt-s-ex-wife-charged-in-assault.html.
But I'm sure her mother must have done something to "drive her to it."
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@Mango She was found not guilty of assaulting her mother.
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@Mango. Found not guilty.
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@Solar Power and men are found not guilty of domestic violence. When a woman gets off, it's justice. When it's a man, it's injustice. So the Obama administration saw fit to required universities to prosecute allegations with few due process protections and lower standards of proof.
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I think what he did to her was barbaric and what she did was also barbaric.
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John Bobbitt's story is that she desired him and denied his sexual prowess by amputating his penis? He has a history of sexual abuse, even serving jail time and this his defense? I applauded Lorena for her courage in moving forward with a productive life and giving back to domestic abuse victims. Now, that's a heroine.
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@Susan. Ditto. Actions speak louder than words. Bobbitt went on to exploit the situation through porn & Stern. Gallo turned down Playboy's $1M. Bobbitt has tried to resume contact through emails. Gallo has worked to build an independent life. It's pretty clear who the real violent abuser was.
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@Susan You do realize that people who abuse are often victims of abuse themselves, right? John was convicted of domestic violence in his relationships following Lorena, but not before. Why do you think that is?
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@Riley Why do you think the police didn't act on the previous calls to their home to charge him? Do you seriously imagine that all abuse is prosecuted? All burglaries? All murders?
Yes, sometimes people abused as children, do abuse as adults, but: a. that doesn't always occur, many children do grow up to Hbreak the cycle of violence; b. this in no way excuses anyone's actions as adults.
At the trial, it was shown that John Bobitt had a history of violently abusing his wife on and before the night of the assault. He later went on to abuse other women. Why do you credit his story at face value?
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Kurosawa made fun of the Japanese groupthink in a lot of his movies.
Why have we not done the same?
Have we done any introspection on how the media lands on a narrative that takes a life of its own and becomes the ‘truth’?
How is it that ALL of the real life dramas of the 90s have been shown to be a cardboard cutout of a narrative? That reality was much more deep and complex? From Tonya Harding to Monica Lewinsky to now Lorena Bobbitt?
Were We as a nation incapable of handling depth and nuance? Was the media unwilling to flesh the narrative, preferring instead to sell one? Why did they never ask: why?
How about an article covering all the media who covered those stories and got them wrong to see what they have learned since? and what we as a society can learn?
All my life I’ve thought Lorena Bobbitt to be a punchline. I’m deeply deeply saddened to learn of her story, and thankful to her for telling it. I wish her peace of mind and blessings.
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At the time it appeared clear to many that she had to have been abused.
But who told her story? Who omitted the important facts? It was journalists who presented the story that was sold to us. It was journalists who weren't up to misleading us about big things like the Iraq invasion or the Viet Nam war. But mislead and omit they did.
Morality and ethics do enter in to how should a story be presented. And remember, stories are what these articles are called.
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Men’s anatomy vs. women’s abuse. And which turns out to be more importantly remembered?
The time for change and truth is long overdue. It is time for abused women to be heard - about their abuse.
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@MIMA Too right. The physical violence visited upon women is greater, can't always be surgically repaired as with John Bobbit, and not infrequently leads to lifelong disfigurement or disability, or more tragically to death.
We need somehow to move upstream in solving this problem. Yes, both men and women commit acts of violence, but how can were work together to create a less violent society? Why for instance do parents allow and even encourage sports like football and boxing, which inevitably lead to brain trauma even among youngsters, the vast majority of whom will never receive a big payoff? Why, against the will of the overwhelming majority, do we continue to allow our society to be terrorized the scourge of automatic and semi-automatic weapons? Why do we spew these weapons all over the planet destabilizing many smaller nations?
Some day, we're going to have to face the fact that building a peaceful world begins at home.
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I remember following this story as a young women and never heard or read that Lorena had been raped and physically abused for years by her husband. My whole perception of this incident would have completely changed if I had this information.
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@Sasha Exactly what I thought when I reading this.
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@Sasha Love Because he was acquitted. That's why you didn't hear about it, because it's hearsay, not fact.
@Riley The media still could have said something. It has taken the Me-Too movement to bring this out. About time.
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Why is the sexual mutilation of a man funny? Late night talk show hosts made jokes. And audiences laughed.
It was deeply disturbing.
It's unimaginable that jokes and laughter would follow the sexual mutilation of a woman.
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@Tyrone Greene
Why is the sexual mutilation of a man funny? Late night talk show hosts made jokes. And audiences laughed."
The ultimate source of humor is pain.
That's why.
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@Tyrone Greene
I believe Mr. Bobbitt himself made many jokes.
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@Tyrone Greene. In our Declaration of Independence, you may find reference to a "long train of abuses" inflicted by a distant tyrant upon the colonies. Standing up to that tyranny did lead to some bloodshed, always regrettable, but most in the colonies later found it justified. It reset a fundamentally unjust relationship. It also lit a long fuse under the remaining injustices that the British factors of slavery had left behind. It is one of the great ironies of history that a slaveholder himself enshrined the words "created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights," in our founding document.
Few of us live through such turbulent times. But I suppose that we laughed, because in the course of all our lives, all of us are involuntary spectators or players to many a cat-and-mouse drama, big or small. In real life, we know how those usually turn out. Cat beats mouse. But every once in a while, outside of the Tom & Jerry cartoons, the mouse manages to get one up. We weren't laughing at the crime, which was gruesome, but because of all that had come before.
And that is one of the most important functions of comedy. It's not all absurdist nonsense and word-play. Sometimes, as with Br'er Rabbit, it unleashes long pent-up injustices with a belly laugh. Laughter is how the mighty are humbled.
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Try watching your local news or reading your local newspaper and add up how many reports stem from violence against women and children. They'll never string them together for you, because they are all unrelated stories in different cities, different boroughs, different crimes, different people. But there is almost always a common thread, a man who kidnaps his child, murders the child, attacos the mother, sets fire to the home etc. Man violates restraining order to attack woman/family (they always say the restraining order part quietly), man kills woman (and her family) after she breaks up with him. Man follows (elderly) woman into building and assaults/robs her. It's all there in your face every single day, the violence perpetrated against women. Sometimes it makes national headlines, if entire families are slaughtered, but most times it's a passing mention of a local story that you'll never hear about again. Sometimes you can even see an alternate version of your own life in them "woman shot by ex boyfriend leaving work after he refused to accept breakup and stalked the victim for weeks". But thankfully your stalker obeyed the restraining orders against him.
I don't think there is any bigger issue being given so little importance than our acceptance of violence of against women and our refusal to believe them when we report it.
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@Bkbirddog
All true. Another-a man walks into a Tennessee bank and executes 5 women. A man goes into a yoga studio and kills 2 women. There is a huge problem here that is not being addressed.
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@Susan how about the ones about ladies drowning there kids in bathtubs? The one about the lady driving her 6 adopted kids off a cliff? The one about the lady that locked her kid in small container suffocating her to death? The one about the lady driving her kids into a lake? The one about that lady that killed the other lady and stole her newborn?
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@M Whataboutisim does not solve the problem. What it does instead, is make you and other like you, M, feel better about accepting the status quo. That way, you don't have to think about how you may have contributed to the problem or how you can fix it. Not that I think you want to fix anything.
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Yes. Boy do I get it. She is brave, and her story is very believable and understandable. However, this story is not just about the abuse she endured- just as it is not just about the knife attack he survived. Let's not swing the pendulum too far. The crime is still horrendous, and absolutely not the best way out of a DV relationship. This is not about women who "finally snapped", or "about a victim and a survivor( both Lorena?)".
"Finally snapped" should mean- give up on surviving the relationship and go to a shelter- safely escape! Not physically assault your abuser which often leads to worse violence against the victim. This is more a story about the mechanism of temporary acute mental illness/disassociation/psychosis -where a victim commits criminal violence. In domestic settings, - that violence is often against the children. DV leading to complete loss of control is still the story. The empathy and understanding for perpetrators of grave violence derived from their back story of abuse/trauma is age old and applies to a much larger group of convicts than DV survivors.
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In 2006 Bob Herbert in the NYTimes, in reflecting on the murder of young girls at the Amish school in Nickel Mines, PA, cogently noted the lack of horror or shock when violence is perpetrated against women and girls. "Why Aren't We Shocked?" https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/16/opinion/16herbert.html . I've often used Herbert's op-ed piece in theology, sociology and anthropology courses to help students realize the terrible degree to which we are unaware of how we are so accustomed to accept violence against women. Chozick's article helps us rethink attitudes toward women who defend themselves, and too often, their children also.
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Good article, however, I question the use of “tasteful” to describe the stilettos. This type of description is part of the problem- you have to quantify her shoes as if something is wrong with heels.
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@Susan Smyth I completely agree with you. Why was this even mentioned? It insinuates that wearing stilettos is an invitation to dance.
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@Nicole: Agree - I felt there were numerous little throwaway remarks that were meant to be funny. They weren't.
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@Susan Smyth
I thought that the writer meant that the shoes were not adorned with bedazzled bows, ribbons, sparkly straps and such, just as if she had written "tasteful flats" or "tasteful kitten heels." Clearly "stiletto" touched a nerve with some. Why?
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I think that abuse of women and children is accepted as a norm. A 14 year old was pushed down and only escaped due to luck. The men who supported the guy who did it seemed to believe that men and boys have the right to do these things. He now sits on Supreme Court.
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@Tricia: no one said anything of the sort.
If the testimony of Blasey-Ford is correct (she changed her story many times)….she was 15 and not 14. The boys she accused were 16 or 17.
There were no witnesses, and all the parties she named, including her best friend and her then-boyfriend deny any such party happened. NOBODY can confirm any aspect of her story, in which she at first said she could not name the year, the month, the date, the location, the season of the year in which she claims the assault happened.
She never told her parents, her best friends nor the police….not in 36 years, and even though her state of Maryland has no statute of limitations on sex crimes.
The fact that the accused maintains his innocence -- his RIGHT in our system of justice! -- and was never tried or convicted, means he did NOT "do it" as you claim. No such facts have been established in any court of law.
You want to condemn every person who is accused? better be careful with that idea, because that means accused who are poor, people of color, etc. were also be condemned by just an accusation!
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@Concerned Citizen
You seem to forget the inquiry was severely limited in time and scope.
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I recently learned that joking was constant by prisoners in concentration camps and that researchers have attempted to understand and explain the cause of this phenomenon.
We laugh, not because we support the events of Lorena's tragic story, but because we are human.
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@ANNE IN MAINE There's a difference between laughing WITH someone at your own situation and laughing AT someone and mocking their pain.
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Thank you for the thoughtful article. I remember how everyone here laughed when it happened. Many here felt the story brought negative attention to our community. No one seemed to consider what she endured to drive her to such a desperate act. She is very brave to stay here, I know people still point her out and whisper "that's Lorena Bobbitt." Good for her for speaking out.
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@K Love, I remember laughter, but it was among feminists in solidarity and a bit of nervousness attached to crossing the line. Although we thought what she did was very extreme, nobody said they thought it was wrong. What she endured was horrifying and might send anyone over the edge. We grew up with the same unspoken rules she did, and feared for her in the judicial system.
The comments I remember most were that if women reacted the way most men would, it might become a lot rarer. And, that as a culture we would become better, as the men who didn't figure it out wouldn't be able to procreate and make more of themselves. lol Yeah dark humor, but it's how evolution happens. It was nice to hear men making the same kind of jokes. If it's any consolation for Lorena, some men at least took the underlying message to heart.
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@Adrienne And good for you for speaking up in support of her!
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@Adrienne I also remember when I first heard the story. We didn’t laugh My female friends and I agreed that she should NOT have told them where she threw it. We knew she must have had a good reason and how unfortunate that he would be reconstructed and able to do it to other women. Which it appears that he has done.
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"there would be no documentary, no Bobbitt jokes or permanent place in popular culture, had John severed some vital piece of Lorena."
Wow. That stopped me in my tracks.
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@Jessica
Yes, I too was dumb-struck. Fabulous writing!
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@Jessica - That was the line that brought me to a full stop, and made me almost forget everything else I’d just read. It was so very concise, and yet it said EVERYTHING.
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@Jessica
My thoughts exactly.
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As I explained to my husband, no wife wants to cut off her husband's penis when he treats her well. He had to have been extremely abusive for her to do it. Shame it's taken society so long to acknowledge that.
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What makes us men nervous is the implicit "or else" embedded in that statement.
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@M That is horrible victim-blaming. It is the literal equivalent of saying no husband wants to punch his wife in the face or give her a stomping. She must have been extremely abusive for him to do that.
We recognize that men who say things like that are brutes, not to be believed. Well there are female brutes out there as well.
John Bobbit's penis does not belong to his wife or any other woman. It's his.
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Has anything changed..not at all.
Because as we have seen brutes like Kavanaugh still rule the day.
We as a country and as a society, have to take a long look in the mirror of reality.
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The standard male reply is deny sexual assault charges and the courts acquit. Women need to start installing cameras in their homes. Proof indeed!
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In a way, we have moved forward in the effort to respect women's rights, and the suffering they endure at the 'privilege' their husbands and 'lovers' inherit. But there are still millions of us (I'm a man) who cannot give up the notion that there is more inequality than equality in a heterosexual relationship -- and the progress toward equality is a growing threat. Perhaps Lorena's story will enlighten more of us. Her strength, I fear, will inspire those who believe in her struggle, and may further enrage those who think she was merely crazy. We remain a mixed-up society, still looking for our heart, our conscious, our humanity. Thank you for a story that helps put us on a healthy if difficult path.
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I cannot help wishing that the whole story would have been reported widely by the press at the time and wondering what it might have done then to "shine a light on domestic violence and sexual assault and marital rape." Better late than never, but ...
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@LBS
Perhaps it was reported the way it was because the reporters were men and some of them turned out to be abusive themselves. It's not rocket science. And Howard Stern?? Honestly!
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"there would be no documentary, no Bobbitt jokes or permanent place in popular culture, had John severed some vital piece of Lorena." This says it all. We accept violence against women as a part of everyday life. When a woman fights back, it's a scandal and she's a jealous shrew. Therein lies the very definition of male privilege.
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@Lisa Wesel If we accepted violence as a fact of everyday life, there would be no domestic abuse prosecutions, no shelters. It’s not accepted. And “fighting back” does not equal a scandal. If someone engages in vigilante justice and is prosecuted for it, it is not male privilege. Instead, it’s a kind of privilege to generalize, ignore facts, and make up facts and not be challenged.
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@A Thinker, Not a Chanter. Let me challenge you. The statement that "We accept violence against women..." doesn't literally mean that it is not against the law and that no one has been held to account. What it means is that in reality violence against women is all too commonplace. So there is a reason for that - that is some way it is culturally acceptable or it would not happen with such frequency.
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@Karen Thank you. Fair point.
2
Amy, your final paragraph is absolutely spot-on
Had the attack been John on Lorena the news would have barely been national much less international. It would not have endured over the years but probably been a headline for days or a few months maximum. There would not have been countless (mainly conservative) talking heads weighing in with their judgement and accusations of 'feminist gone crazy'. And, most poignantly, there probably wouldn't still be a Lorena, and if there was certainly one that would be able to parlay their infamy into a steady income and notoriety like her ex-husband has been allowed to do.
I look forward to watching 'Lorena' and am comforted that Ms Gallo's life has not been ruined by that one act she committed while at the end of her tether.
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Excellent article. Thoughtful and balanced. But it was the last paragraph that hit home the most. Yes, sadly, if Lorena had sustained even more physical harm, it would not have made any kind of news. And her comment about how they 'always laugh' immediately brought to mind the testimony from Dr. Ford at the Kavanaugh hearings. What will it take for people to realize how much anger such laughter brings up? We would do well to remember the laughter a certain man in the White House expressed on the Access Hollywood tapes,too.
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I hope her story helps other women and admire her for speaking up and allowing the full story to be told. I also wish her peace, health and success.
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