It's all about 5G, but in the US universal access to broadband is sorely lacking and if towers that have to be closer together is a requirement, then a large proportion of the US population will be out of luck. And since an important aspect is AI and automation, then a good percentage of US workers are also going to be out of luck.
2
The case against Huawei has been ongoing for years, and will hopefully come to a conclusion based on legal standards. However, why should we necessarily trust US companies whose equipment and software might also be suspect. From past experience particularly regarding NSA and "American interests and security" which seems to include everything, I might guess who is calling the kettle black. I will say that America has more transparency, often unintended but makes its way to the surface.
There is no doubt that China will take whatever advantages it can, legal or otherwise, whether for competitive or aggressive reasons, to attain and retain dominance over the rest of the world.
Communications (and with 5G, beyond-human and network-derived interchange) is the most critical aspect of security, control, and dominance over adversaries in any field of endeavor. That was proven in the early days of communications coding and transmission, when in WWII, America used its advantage in breaking the Japanese code to triumph in Midway and beyond against superior forces, and when the allies did the same with Germany after Great Britain’s Alan Turing broke its Enigma code and a machine was obtained from a U-boat by America’s Navy.
The only way to be sure Chinese-made equipment won’t be a threat to the governments, militaries and businesses of the democracies is to keep that equipment out of Western systems.
And security isn’t the only reason. There is no justification to allow any government run by a dictatorship, oligarchy, or any other repressive form of rule, to hold economic sway over the world in any field, let alone through the command of physical infrastructure, and particularly one as vital as communications.
And governments should also prohibit their corporations from entering into any venue of business with China where intellectual-property theft is not aggressively guarded against or where forced-technology transfer is required of them.
5
Well we’ll see how Canada rules. Extraditing a person to the USA because the USA says they broke some American rules of international conduct not agreed to by Canada or anyone else seems overboard to me.
3
Although the Euro Western powers commit the same political acts asChina, I prefer our hegemony over other nations, such as China, Russia, any European government, or anyone else. Selfish? Impure? Yep. Honest though.
1
If the US was less concerned with bombing every insignificant hut, hamlet and outhouse all over the world and more focused on what matters, oh, say, global technological supremacy, it would not be in this state now. As the US is realizing, albeit late, the fight that matters is the one against smart people with slide rules, calculators and super computers, not AK's, sandals and man-dresses.
4
I have come to the conclusion that neither side of this mess is worth sympathy. On one hand, you have evidence of patent theft. On the other hand, you have people being used as pawns in a global treaty negotiation.
While the giants astride the world, the little people get trampled.
1
I see so many comments coming from my fellow Canadians on this story. Not surprising since we are now between a rock and a hard place in terms of living up to our extradiction treaty with the U.S. and at the same time having Bejing imprisoning 2 Canadians in retaliation for the arrest of Meng. First of all we do not take well to such threats to our citizens. Never have; Never will. It says more about Xi and the Chinese government than anything else. Second; Trump has created more anti-American feelings than at any time in my 63 year old life. So what to do? In keeping with our character; we will do what is right in honoring our commitment to the rule of law. If Washington demands Meng be turned over; barring some court ruling here in Canada; she will be handed over. But that may take some time. Meanwhile; Canadian citizens are being put at risk in China because the Trump administration; as usual; cannot get it`s act together. Ottawa has been pretty much left in the dark as to what Trump and Co. has in mind. The least we should be able to expect is for Washington to sit down and explain what their long term goal is. If they have one? In the meantime; tell Bozo to stop talking about Canada in such pathetic terms; and then turn around and ask us to bail them out in arresting Meng as their only means of getting their hands on her. I trust many Americans will agree with this simple, basic, decent request?!
17
This is all about Iran. Stealing trade secrets has been going on for decades and quite frankly the Chinese won’t need to continue this practice much longer. We are educating their youth at our finest Universities(they pay more so they get priority) and seven out of ten of them go home to China where they have set up their own universities and are churning out computer scientists and engineers by the hundreds of thousands. For years our CEOs have given the Chinese our secrets to bump up their bottom line and bonus for the quarter. It’s been game over for America since we first began exporting our manufacturing to Asia, are we so full of ourselves that we didn’t think the Chinese would not be content to just make parts for the White Devils. The time has arrived that they and most of the world no longer need us at all until they need our military and that is becoming a question, we are a nation of 300,000,000 individuals of mixed heritage China is a nation of four times that ethnic Chinese(plus there’s India) whose leaders for the last forty years have been working to make China into an international leader, not by bombing the Middle East into oblivion to protect our “ allies” Saudi Arabia(we have MBS as a role model and we worry about Iran, please) and Israel but by building a new country from the ground up with sophisticated infrastructure and education for their people. Americans have been sold out for the last fifty years to advance the 1% and special interests.
5
given the recent past, it's hard to not see these actions as at least somewhat simply motivated by local politics, especially now that Trump has all but lost on his "wall."
for example, there's been the tariffs etc etc. this doesn't sound like it would be the first time the Chinese really did something that technically "broke" the laws of the US or other countries. and, the US probably does the same often elsewhere.
i wouldn't be surprised to see this in a Trump ad sometime during the elections months from now.
the same administration just let the Saudis murder a journalist, the same president has praised despots in countless places around the world, and probably emboldened them.
1
If America insist on obstructing China’s development, it is time that we would see world war 3. US can destroy China 100 times and China can destroy the US 1 time. Together the two countries can eliminate the world 1 time.
I suspect that China hasn't actually stolen as much intellectual property as is claimed. Frankly, I suspect that American business people have been using cheap Chinese labor and resources and have been intimately involved in the "knock-offs" China has been producing based on technology originally created elsewhere. The real problem is the same as always, whenever a foreign country engages in self determination that doesn't pay homage or, more importantly, percentages to the U.S. the U.S. gets its haunches up. The U.S. gamed the system in Latin America by controlling the politics, that will not be possible in China and might even lead to a full scale war. Latin American couldn't fight back, China can.
2
I totally agree with our government in this matter. It is no secret that China has been stealing our technology for years, and continues to do so today.
Further, it has forced the same for our ability to to operate in China with our businesses.
And they have no boundaries, and have attempted and continue to do so right here in the US.
China's latest gambit to hack and steal US information recently discovered in the Marriott-Sheraton hack, which occurred over three years.
Not to mention China's militarization in the South China sea, and its interference into the international sea lanes, where they have taken over disputed existing and their man-made islands.
China not only controls many of their businesses, when de facto, they run and monitor them.
In reality they have become our nemesis, and it is necessary for us to maintain our positions in these matters as necessary.
2
Re: ..for helping evade American sanctions on Iran.
How would Americans feel, who did something perfectly legal in the US under US law, if they would get arrested and delivered to France , because France passed a law outlawing it.
They would be outraged
And such feels the rest of the world by about America that throws its weight around and passes extra territorial laws
3
“The Americans are not going to surrender global technological supremacy without a fight, and the indictment of Huawei is the opening shot in that struggle,” said Michael Pillsbury, a China scholar at the Hudson Institute who advises the Trump administration.
Pillsbury is a has been who was fooled by China at one time and now has it out for China. Of course, he would be the one Trump has decided should advise his team of crack economic/foreign policy advisors.
The truth is America is freaked out that China will be the #1 economic global power within five years - and that Huawei's 5G will be the standard around the world.
So yes "America is not going to surrender global technological supremacy" without creating a fake national security issue, much the way Trump declared Canada to be a national security risk when he slapped tariffs on its steel and aluminum exports.
Trump doesn't fight fair - he plays dirty. And his team of Pillsbury, Navarro, Kudlow, Ross, Lighthizer, are leading him on.
2
Just be aware that Apple stock price would shed a few hundred billions when millions of Chinese consumers decide to switch to Huawei.
To complicate it even more, don’t forget T-Mobile is owned by the Germans. So the US is having the Canadians do the dirty work with China while we protect the Germans. As to why no one from the German bank was arrested for dealing with Iran, remember that it was the only bank to loan Trump money through Justice Kennedy’s son who worked there.
2
Good that the U.S.. is finally getting real about the theft of technology by China. There is no way to do this without cracking some eggs, however. China wants to compete on the world's stage, but doesn't want to abide by the rules most other nations do. Intellectual property theft might be common but that doesn't mean America should do nothing. Everyone needs to remember how China sells anything even if it is contaminated. I remember around here, an area of tremendous growth, when concrete from China had to be replaced. My question is, why didn't the Obama Administration doing anything?
1
This is a bit dubious by the US administration. Huawei is a modern enterprise at the cutting edge of technology. If it steals secrets, then why are they ahead of the US in certain fields?
A few years ago, I had been in a European service provider's lab where their production equipment had been located.
Large warning signs posted at the entrance to the lab and throughout many different parts of the lab warned that no Huawei employee could access the lab unless accompanied by an employee of the service provider.
The posted warning went further to indicate that Huawei employees could not, on any piece of equipment in the lab, insert any type of USB or CD.
This had been well before 2016.
2
The idea that China has parts in millions of US surveillance cameras is a good reason to be concerned. A long overdue move.
2
Trump, with his characteristic finesse, got Canada to arrest Ms Meng in Canada so Trump could use her as a bargaining chip in trade talks with China. It is that simple. All the rest is PR spin. Trump doesn't care that two Canadians are being held in harsh detention, sleep deprived and tortured while another Canadian had his sentence changed to the death penalty, all so Trump can believe he has the upper hand in negotiations with China. The man has all the finesse of a sledge hammer. If he wants to be rough and unsubtle in negotiations with another country he should not be using Canadian citizens as collateral damage.
But it makes no difference to Trump. He thinks the Canadian government was weak and submissive to act on his request even though to do so was against Canada's best interests. The lives of Canadians mean nothing to him. Heck - the lives of ordinary Americans mean nothing to him, either.
103
@MJM As a fellow Canadian, allow me to remind you we are bound to honour our extradition treaties and, despite our collective distaste for the Trump regime, the US case against Huawei appears to have substance.
16
@MJM
Canada is between a rock and a hard place for sure. The smart decision would be for the Canadians to extradite Meng. Trump will make sure the two Canadians are freed, and the execution changed to a reprieve. Trump has Xi on this one. Meng is a Queen.
3
@MJM Trump appears to have been unaware of the arrest. Bolton responded that the president was not informed of this detail in advance. This arrest has nothing per se to do with trade negotiations. She is not a bargaining chip. It appears, however, that Bolton was seeking to have legal recognition of the sanctions unilaterally imposed against Iran by the U.S. that China, the EU and its member states, the UK, Russia and others do not recognize. Trump may in fact have been angry at Bolton for not information him at the moment when he was consummating his trade deal with Xi.
4
How can the US force other nations to stop trading with Iran?
Meanwhile Saudi Arabia continues their repressive policies on their citizens, which the US continues to ignore. There were zero Iranians involved in 9/11.
Not sure of the last time Iran executed one of its citizens in a foreign embassy, yet the US ignores the poor behaviour of Saudi Arabia, while demonising Iran.
109
@Barry of Nambucca
Did you actually read the story? This involves Huawei's USA unit. That's why the FBI is involved.
Reading really helps. Really. Not kidding.
8
What a terrible situation. The U.S. has alienated and bullied and insulted pretty much every ally it has ever had. Here in Canada people now often go out of their way to avoid buying American products. The U.S. is viewed with suspicion at best and hostility at worst. On the other hand, China under Xi Jinping is probably even worse.
The U.S. may have a good case against Huawei. But who can trust a government led by a serial liar with no moral compass? The U.S. has lost its standing in the world.
271
@Gary A. What are you talking about, Canadian don't but U.S Products? This is laughable and just not true, I live in Canada and have seen nothing to support this statement. I agree that the standing of the U.S has fallen in the view point of most Canadians, but I don't think this translates into widespread abstinence of U.S products.
13
@Gary A.
Utter nonsense. Almost nobody considers any aspect of a country's government when making purchasing decisions - all they want is the best price. If they did then China would still be a backwater like it was in the '70s. And besides - what American products? It's not as if it takes any effort or hardship to avoid buying products from a country that no longer makes anything.
12
Jeez, I know what you mean, we will try to fix it ASAP. Doesn't look easy or pretty, however.
1
Let us not forget our corporate record over the past several decades of getting away with whatever we could get away with around the globe. And then lying about it. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there and our bite is just as lethal as China's. If you doubt what I'm saying look at our corporate record here at home. Since Trump became president corporate America has lobbied his administration heavily to reduce regulations that help them and hurt Americans. None of this means that we shouldn't defend ourselves, but beware of demonizing China. Breaking apart our current global economy will crush our economy. Meanwhile, our duplicitous president is using one hand to slap China over the trade deficit while the other hand strokes Xi by saving 60,000 jobs at ZTE. Imagine China's view of our chaos. If anything, Trump emboldens the Chinese leadership, because he's a terrible leader and perhaps easily corruptible.
1
This is breaking news in China, too. And people are not buying US's reason of arrest because they didn't see any solid evidence that was made public.
Many believe it is because a Chinese company is inventing a technology ahead of the US that threatens US's leading position. So now the US government feels the need to sabotage and hold that company owner's daughter, Meng, at hostage.
It's unlikely for the Chinese government to step down from the issue. This will be a great chance for the government to convince their people that China's technological development is getting international reaction and attention from world's #1 country. They will turn this event into a boost of nationalism.
4
The issue seems to be that there are legal and business issues intermingling. If every business executive who has ever, knowingly or unknowingly, violated sanctions, had been held fully accountbale, prisons would overflow with white collar offenders. So, whilst Ms. Meng should have a chance to prove her innocence in a court the system has to be careful not to apply double standards which could be driven by business considerations.
It is very clear that the US is concerned about Huawei and other Chinese Technology companies gaining market share in sensitive areas such as telecommunications, AI or robotics. But, as long as it is not proven that Huawei and the likes are an extension of the Chinese communist-industrial complex and illegally abuse the infrastructure and equipment they install market powers should prevail. Otherwise, it would be too easy and too tempting to declare a foreign company a security risk, just like Trump did with European car manufacturers.
2
The heart of the issue is that 5G is much more reliant on software in the build out of the network... Thus it is very true that Chinese Huawei would pose an espionage, or network control threat.
I know, I know, the Americans want all the 5G espionage advantages to themselves...
3
It should be noted that these are unilateral American sanctions - not UN Security Council approved sanctions. Suppose the CFO of Intel is arresting in Beijing or Moscow or Turkey for breaking Chinese sanctions on Israel one day?
As American influence wanes it is setting itself up for horrors it cannot yet contemplate.
2
Frankly, I personally don't care which U.S. laws (I repeat--'U.S.' laws, not 'American' laws) Huawei broke. Whenever the U.S. stops breaking international law, stops nurturing Islamic terrorism, stops feeding genocide in Yemen, stops helping Netanyahu create a 'Greater Israel', stops enabling Salman's barbarity, stops bombing and invading other nations that are no threat to itself and, not unimportantly, stops blackmailing 'allies' whose laws have NOT been broken by China or Iran or anyone else ....... Then, and only then, would the globe consider U.S. judicial actions as anything but short-sighted, hypocritical and self-serving.
If Apple Inc. is in such a dreadful state as to have to depend on government intervention to defeat a far superior and more visionary commercial rival, then I feel sorry for the U.S.. I also feel sorry for U.S. citizens who will suffer the effects of an ongoing U.S.-China trade war. And don't believe the guy with the orange hair: U.S. citizens will suffer more profoundly from empty shelves and inflation than will their Chinese counterparts.
2
I am not a historian but China had been humiliated by the west for a long time. Most likely still a festering wound.
I have also read that many Chinese people see that the tables have turned and the days of pushing China around are finished.
I do not fully comprehend the details of this dispute but looking at China's treatment of Canada is an example, this could get nasty.
2
Even beyond the cuuent investigations by the Justice department, the charges of IP theft and cyber espionage in the US by China are not new and have marked the US-China relationship for long. What's new this time is China's bid to oust the US from the race to dominate the new frontiers of the high tech driven digital world wherein the monopoly control over the sources and content of information is what makes a cointry the real super power. As the Chinese telecom giant Huwaei is at the forefront of the 5G spectrum technology and its telecom equipment manufacturing, even ahead of the US tech giants, it is obvious that the Huwaei and its CFO Ms. Meng Wanzhou will be the main targets for the US ire specially when Trump has already declared an all out trade war against China. The Huwai becomes the symbol of all dirty things China is doing against the US and it is here that trade, politics, and justice all are mixed up and are at the interplay
1
Canada should deliver Wanzhou to the US immediately with humble and sincere apologies to China and the simple explanation they don’t want to be in the middle of this.
This whole episode seems like something from medieval Europe. Capturing a foreign country’s prince or something.
The technology theft claim is legitimate. The Iran trade restrictions is not. Preventing a sovereign country from trading with Iran if it wants to is preposterous.
2
Gee, it would have been nice if the Trump Administration hadn't jettisoned approval of the Trans-Pacific partnership almost before walking in the door, thereby stymieing a carefully negotiated pact to at least take a stab at reining in China. And if Apple et al. had decided to build more expensive smart phones in the U.S. even at a price point that would discourage requiring that they be "replaced" every 18 months with an upgraded model. Those ships have sailed. We'll see how corporate America responds to a call for patriotism over profits from Donald J. Trump.
While I'm no fan of bumbling Trump, I for one lad that finally the US is waking up to the threat China poses to the US and the rules based democracies. Until Xi China followed Deng dictum of bide your time and lie low while building up its capabilities both economic and military. Now Xi is weaponizing China's foreign policy to grab No 1 global power status toppling the US. China is the challenger. While it has the right to do so, it is in our and the US interest to push back. Until now starting with Clinton, the US facilitated China's rise, now is the time to takes the gloves off. China's immediate goal is to remove the US from its predominant role in ASia and establish Chinese hegemony, later on extend it to Europe too. We simply cannot let that happen, not allow the US to be taken out from the biggest market in the world, Asia.
28
@Observer
"starting with Clinton"
Correction: starting with Nixon.
8
@Observer
"We simply cannot let that happen, not allow the US to be taken out from the biggest market in the world, Asia."
Trump has demonstrated that that is exactly what he would do - Remove USA from all international leadership positions that require it to take on onerous responsibilities.
4
@Observer
We must not let overcharged animus toward President Trump blind us to the serious threat China poses. Someone has to keep a level head about this. Unfortunately, the president's critics are more interested in punishing the president, and by extension the US, than China.
2
China has long been known to copy technology of items manufactured for the U.S. and other countries. It is industrial espionage and it is the only thing they are guilty of.
This idea that America controls the commerce of the world's sovereign nations with Iran is ludicrous. That Trump even has the right to block the use of US banks for those who trade with Iran is suspicious.
The fact remains, he is not the elected president of every country, and therefore, they can do as they wish. Most countries have no problem trading with Iran.
The problem of getting China to cease its industrial espionage will be difficult, given that they manufacture all digital and computer equipment for the world, plus all pharmaceuticals. It is necessary that they know proprietary information in order to manufacture these things.
They are also known for poor quality control across the board, especially in pharmaceuticals, and importing countries must be ever-vigilant.
But the crux of the matter is that no other countries have the facilities, the know-how and the low wage structure of China. Cut them out of the picture, and no one could afford mobile phones or medication.
These trade negotiations must acknowledge the global necessity for China's workforce--and a crackdown on industrial espionage--difficult to do in a closed society.
17
@Lilou
Iran is a special state. It is governed by religious clerics who will go to war to maintain their rule. Iran would like to develop nuclear weapons to stabilize religious leadership as viable model for statehood. Sanctions were put in place to bring them to the nuclear negotiating table. Nuclear warfare is very possible. The US as a hegemonic power has an obligation to support the non-proliferation treaty.
1
@Jeff Stockwell
So it’s OK for Israel to have nukes?
3
@Jeff Stockwell--@Jeff Stockwell ill-- the U.S. reneged on the Iran nuclear accord, although the rest of th signatories, the EU, the UK, Russia, China, Germany, France and Iran still adhere to it. It's a 3-year accord, to be renewed. Iran wants to trade and normalize, despite a religious/secular government.
John Bolton is spoiling for a fight with them, any excuse to attack (even a fabricated one) His hatred of Iran has grown obsessive since the GHW Bush years, and he provokes them with threats of attack.
He advises a President who disdains honor, honesty, knowledge, governance and the law, and doesn't care to change. So the U.S., by their bad faith with Iran, creates further reason to distrust us. The only other country that would like to blow them up is Israel. The U.S. should not be fomenting more Middle East wars.
By the way, the U.S., under Trump, also reneged on the Paris climate accord, and pulled its membership in UNESCO. We've insulted allies, the President started a trade war and handed out tariffs, (the job of Congress, BTW), and has hurt American companies as a result. North Korea is a bigger nuclear concern, and they won't budge unless we, too, reduce our nuclear arsenal.
As to Huawei, they are likely guilty of industrial espionage. While we should be working out problems of theft of proprietary information with them, and Chinese manufacturers in general, they now hate us, too, thanks to Trump's tariffs.
3
In Canada, we have now learned beyond a doubt from the condescending demands and outrageous threats the Chinese ambassador has made, that Huawei, as an agent of the Communist Party of China, can never be trusted to be involved in our communications infrastructure. Period. But Bell Canada and Telus Canada are still using Huawei 4G equipment and have not yet announced that they will stop using Huawei in the future. If Bell or Telus are hacked and if Huawei equipment is found to be germane to the problem, customers will file private and class action lawsuits to recover any injuries. Then shareholders will likely file their own lawsuits. The executive management and directors of these corporations better have lots of insurance.
33
@Rick GTA.. How naive to think that Americans can be trusted and so soon after the NAFtA 'renegotiations' with steel and alumnium tariifs still enforced.
2
@Rick GTA Huawei and China have so much to gain from commercial success that it would be extremely stupid for them to provide spying tools for use by the PRC. I suspect they are dedicated to success and would refrain from stupidity.
All major companies do competitive analysis and from time to time use technology engineered from competitors. These matters are settled in courts with tech companies being often in the news about these matters. China has made a policy of acquiring technology as part of granting access to its vast and rapidly growing market. Many well-known companies have accepted this condition. How much of a factor this policy is in the competitive success of Huawei is unclear. It serves the largest telecom market in the world and has more opportunity to innovate than its competitors who no longer have a Bell Labs and an ATT monopoly.
The technology issues and the sanctions avoidance issues are distinct issues. Mixing them creates more confusion than clarifies legitimate concerns with Huawei.
If Huawei violated sanctions in 2013 it would have violated Chinese law because they were authorized by the Security Council and China had agreed to enforce those sanctions. The present unilateral U.S. sanctions against Iran are not authorized by the Security Council. Their enforcement rests on the power of the U.S. to deny access to the U.S. market to companies that violate the sanctions rather than on international law.
2
@PKW
Your lack of trust of “Americans” is a different issue. You are entitled to your own opinion.
This investigation may come at "a sensitive time" in the trade dispute as the article states, but is not about trade. This investigation has been going on since 2007 and is about IP theft, evidence tampering, and evading sanctions, and should be kept totally separate from trade issues or politics. Let this proceed in the courts in the US, which unlike those in China, are politically independent.
19
It’s about time America has come down on Chinese intellectual property theft. They’ve been doing it for decades and it has allowed them to catch up with Western technology where it otherwise would’ve taken much longer if ever. That not only makes them a worldwide competitor but also a major threat. Lest we forget that China is not exactly a land of free flowing information and enlightened human rights. We saw the rise of China coming a long time ago and we failed to do anything about it. In fact we were so greedy that we thought we’d cash in on it by opening companies there. Ask Western companies how that’s working out for them now. China is the single biggest threat to the West. Period.
29
Huawei...stole Cisco's source code for switches....later T-Mobile....certainly much more, as this is clearly their business plan, as it is that of the Chinese government. Trump has certainly jousted with a lot of windmills, but this time it is something real....I hope they see it through.
3
Perhaps I have missed something here, why is a foreign company being charged for a criminal activity over violating American sanctions in Iran? Does America think it rules the world or something and why should Canada extradite a Chinese executive to the USA.
China should retaliate and imprison US business people for violating Chinese law.
2
@Joseph B
Sure, if they are given a fair trial.
The Huwaei exec. is living under "house arrest" in one of her multi-million dollar houses in Vancouver and spending her days shopping, which is fine if she respects her curfew.
Meanwhile the two Canadians held by China are kept in a room with the lights on 24/7 and are given no access to legal counsel.
It's time the west pushes back against China and it's communist dictatorship, just like we did against the Soviet Union.
@Joseph B., Why? The alleged use of US financial institutions to evade sanctions. Note the conviction of Turkish banker Mehmet Hakan Atilla on similar charges.
1
If only Meng had contributed bigly to Trump's inaugural all this could have been avoided. Hey, it worked for Russia.
Nice gesture of American goodwill to start negotiations, banning the Chinese crown jewel, Huawei in order to ban them from putting anything related the infamous "5G" in the US.
Yes, the negotiations will proceed "fine" for us. Obviously some people just forgot who really makes everything we use, wear and more recently even eat. Just wait and see, creating and having the "patents" is not enough, but who really makes the actual products is what matters at the end.
8
American giants such as Verizon purchased huawei equipment for years. All out of regulatory sight due to huawei not being publicly traded.
Large American mobile carriers financed much of what huawei is doing. Now Mr trump is trying to buy silence.
2
Google, Apple, Amazon, and Microsoft receive enormous tax and capital investment benefits from U.S. Congressional legislation. As a result, these corporations are supported by the U.S. government and end up reeking havoc on the domestic IT corporations of many nations, impacting the "prosperity" of those nations and potentially subjecting those nations to spying by U.S. intelligence. The same could be said of many U.S. industries, from aircraft to agriculture. By the FBI's own logic, do U.S. corporations pose a "threat" then to the "national security" of those countries?
11
@john Not sure if you are one of the Russians whose job is to post. The companies you listed were created by entrepreneurs, funded by shareholders. They have defied US government requests when not constitutional. Huawei is a company that must obey communist party of China, even though it is structured and operates in many respects like a 'free market' company.
1
Big difference between engaging in fair trade and legally licensing technology to what China does which is actively steal intellectual property to help prop up its regime.
1
Tendentious accusations against a better and stronger U.S. competitor linked to the phony cold war with Iran. Stop searching. With or without Trump, the American way is less and less liked and more and more despised.
13
Many comments say Huawei is stealing. Where is the evidence?
Don’t forget the US is the biggest thief starting an unjustified war in Iraq just for oil.
Stop being hypocritical, Americans.
10
@Ken Xu In the US, we present evidence in a real court, which is politically independent. It'll probably take a long trial, likely months, in proceedings open to anyone, multiple opportunities for each side to present witnesses, be cross-examined etc., before a decision is reached. Definitely not in one day, which is as long as it took the Chinese court to find the Canadian citizen guilty and sentenced him to death (and in the US you would never be sentenced to death for a non-violent crime).
I would note Huwaei is not the first firm charged for violating sanctions. The list includes US companies, German and British Banks (Standard Chartered currently faces a $1.5 billion fine). I believe the criminal charges agains the individual relate to IP theft and witness tampering, rather than sanctions violations.
5
@RSSF
A long reply, yet not a single word on the accusation of theft of Iraqi oil. Is that silent acknowledgment?
In the end, I would say Iraqi oil is whataboutism. Yet one probably has to admit that morally the US don’t have a clean slate, either (or any bigger/older nation for that matter).
1
@Ken Xu Pot, meet Kettle. I have no love for either government's actions but when you play at this level, accusing one side of hypocrisy, is, well, hypocritical.
2
Yeah we are going to indict people because they do business with a country that we in our collective wisdom disapprove of. Such arrogance.
16
This sounds more like a bluff where Trump will step in to end this process if negotiations occur in a more friendly or sub servient manner by China in the trade talks. Trumps ego is so large that this bizarre prosecution when supposed negotiations are ending is comical. China should take the upper hand and continue to negotiate, laugh at the latest attempt by Trump to take attention away from the Mueller findings. First the noise over Venezuela, now the drama wth respect to Huawei as the negotiations reach a climax. Simply laugh it off and wait until the deadline approaches and watch Trump make a complete reversal and sign off on a deal. It is as if they gave this info prior to China in a pre packaged plan in an effort to save Trump from his past corruption with Putin.
2
Unlike in China, where criminal action is used politically, US courts are supposed to be independent of the executive branch. The president cant just "step in" and make charges go away, nor urge DOJ to take actions that are not legally warranted.
China like Russia will develop ties with the most disreputable leaders or governments. One wants to know exactly what they have been doing. In other words more specifics. But from the development of disputed islands in Asia, to use of developing countries minerals, it is clear that China plays one game...that is directed to using all means to achieve the country's goals, including historically allowing the sale of contaminated products and medicines. The goal is to strengthen China through any means necessary.
43
@JHM; Hmm, China First?What kind of whacky policy is that for a country to have? Imagine that! "Officials have long suspected Huawei of working to advance Beijing’s global ambitions and undermine America’s interests and have begun taking steps to curb its international presence." Wow those dastardly Chinese are at it again. How dare they work to advance the global ambitions of China!!!
10
The difference is that China does this by any means necessary and to exclusively support one of the most repressive regimes on the planet. Charlie don't surf!
2
@JHM, it is evident that we are now in a new Cold War. What I want to remind people is where the last Cold War led: M.A.D.
Alliances across the world led to regional conflicts that lasted decades and entire countries were held hostage to undemocratic regimes put in place to maintain the East-West alliances.
A worse outcome would be the situation before 1914: a world armed to the teeth (like now where the three major nuclear powers have been ramping their military spending for two decades) with alliances made in volatile parts of the world (the Middle East anyone?). Once the first bullet was fired, it led to a chain of unfortunate events.
I read a lot of the comments and it is quite evident that most people are not remotely aware of the larger picture and how small arguments can quickly mushroom in our world as it is structured now.
Trump has thrown down the gauntlet, and I suspect this will be a dual in which neither side comes out as the winner. While most of the US's allies are averse to Trump's aggressive in-your-face, my way or the highway style of doing things, they tolerate it with held noses. China will not.
Huawei and Ms. Meng may well have violated the sanctions against Iran. When dealing with China though, holding one of their top business people hostage (Trump did mention releasing her if "a deal" with China could be worked out) will fail as spectacularly as his attempt to hold 800,000 federal workers hostage did.
Trump doesn't have even a basic understanding of diplomacy, much less the subtleties involved in dealing with China. Challenges that result in a loss of face will not be tolerated by Beijing under any circumstances. Trump and Bolton don't get that.
In addition, this goes beyond just Huawei, as China will absolutely respond in kind to an executive order to "ban American companies from using Chinese-origin equipment in critical telecommunications networks."
China should be brought to task for its unfair trading practices and blatant disregard for IP, however Trump's approach lacks the type of finesse and understanding that comes with diplomacy. Chinese companies will suffer from the measures, but without question so will American businesses in China. In holding China's feet to the fire, we will undoubtedly get burned.
44
@JHM
Finesse - isn’t that what past administrations tried?
7
Several US governments, since 1970, gave industries away to China.
At the request of US corporations, many of which no longer exist, because when you move several complete industries to another nation, you have to train workers and managers, in effect giving away your technology to another group of intelligent people who will do their best to take it, and its profits, for themselves - why not? They’re doing all the work.
In the early Nixon era, you could not go to China with a small computer, if you could go at all.
Now the computers come from a nation that was 40 years behind the US electronics industries in every way.
China had no semiconductor “fabs”,
No people trained in computer design as it stood at the start of the days of the microprocessor, and ultra-high-density chip making,
and almost no capacity to make decent machine tools, plastics or, for that matter televisions, which, these days, are effectively high grade computer monitors.
They had no software industry at all.
Our corporate heads sold out our technology lead by demanding to use the cheapest workforce around, and get out from under demands by the people who made things for a share of the profits.
If those moves hadn’t been legal, we might have grounds to complain.
But they were, and now China is quite capable of developing the tech on its own.
It’s the US that no longer has facilities to build modern electronics - let alone make steel using modern methods.
We created the situation and have to accept it.
10
@JHM; The rest of the world is not part of the US Stat.e Department
1
I am in favor of holding Huawei accountable. This is a company that was charged with violating sanctions in 2014 with Cuba. It is not a stretch to believe there is similar wrong-doing in Iran.
China's overreaction to Canada, with the threats, illegal arrests of our citizens (one of whom has diplomatic status) and the "upgrading" of an imprisoned Canadian to death only bares their weakness in authority and further implicates their likelihood of wrongdoing.
Canada is also facing a choice on its security as to whether or not it should allow Huawei technology in its 3 largest telecoms. I for one, based on how China is behaving, will be boycotting Telus and Bell (only Rogers has banned Huawei) if they do not rescind their demands on the Canadian government to include this technology in our infrastructure. Even if the Huawei spying claims are confirmed false after this, the behavior of the Chinese government must be curtailed and denying market access would send the right message. Allowing them market access will only embolden their position and you should expect more of the same behavior (or an escalation) the next time things don't go their way.
China needs Huawei to succeed as part of the Belt and Road initiative for global dominance and client state creation. Infrastructure includes Huawei tech. I don't want that reality. As a consumer, I am going to deny them my dollars to the best of my ability and vote with my wallet, even if our leaders cannot make a decision.
41
@Daniel H
Daniel, Thanks for informing me that Rogers is the only major telecom provider who has banned Huwaei. If Canada does not ban Huwaei from the country soon, I will be moving from Telus to Rogers.
Enough is enough with the communist dictatorship of China. A country where the leader recently declared himself leader for life -not a good sign.
For every and any product, or service, purchase I make in the future, I will avoid Chinese produced. When China decides to join the world of free democracies I will be happy to open my wallet to them again.
15
@Daniel H Drug dealer is illegal in any country. You know how many young kids get killed by drug abuse in US and Canada every year. Why you think drug deal should be set free. Plus, a lot of companies had violated US laws before. TD, RBC, even Chase, JP Morgen. But none of cfo or ceo being arrested, this is not about the violation of US legal system, but a typical example of white supremacy in US and Canada. White people can break law anytime anywhere and get free. But Asian Canadians or Asian American should be punished and sentenced all the time.
6
@Matthew
Stay true to your principals, even as Huawei is set to become the Number 1 phone provider in the world by the end of 2019.
2
It would make more sense for the U.S. to make it a criminal offense for any American company or citizen to trade with China instead of holding a trade war. Rebuild our industries and capabilities and then trade only with other friendly democracies. Nixon and Kissinger sold the U.S. out by opening trade with China and making it a preferred trading partner. Then we moved the balance of our production capabilities, such as textiles, to Sri Lanka, etc. Our economy has been circling the drain ever since. There is the crux of our employment and national debt problems. But, don't use problems we have created to punish businesses and regimes we created through our own greed and stupidity. Fess up America, you can't have it both ways.
19
Unfortunately, Trump has so tainted international relationships with his tweets that even an apparently honest inditement can be fairly questioned as to its legitimacy. I do wish Trump could learn to think before he hits send and thereby avoid further complicating already complex problems. As is, Trump is a major embarrassment on the global scene and he is too often part of the problem, not the solution.
6
The administration has made a terrible mistake in trying to ruin China by stopping Chinese technology advance. This is wildly unjust, wildly prejudicial, and we will be unsuccessful.
8
The difference between China and the US:
In China, the government owns the corporations. In the US, the corporations own the government. Freedom is a myth in either country.
26
Well put!
2
Americans, through their elected government, have gone around the world belittling our allies, threatening to break treaties unless we are paid, passed tariffs on friends and foes alike whether or not they made sense, and criticized foreign leaders for capricious reasons, such as the mayor of London, the prime ministers of Canada, the UK, Australia, the President of France and the Chancellor of Germany.
Now we want support from these same allies and the rest of the world as we attack China through one of its largest companies, Huawei. Not that the complaints against Huawei are not warranted, because they most certainly are. China is under no obligation whatsoever to obey US sanctions on Iran. They could be coerced to if we and our sphere of influence present a united front. But after we lost that sphere of influence, by betraying and insulting all our friends, now we want their support against our adversaries, such as China and Iran. At the same time, we are openly implying to the world that we would rather support Russia instead of the democracies that have stood by us for decades. China does need to be dealt with. But it would be easier to support this move if we were not being led by a Russian version of the Manchurian candidate.
13
This is Wray's core statement: "The prosperity that drives our economic security is inherently linked to our national security. And the immense influence that the Chinese government holds over Chinese corporations like Huawei represents a threat to both."
Prosperity = (link?) national security. By reducing U.S. corporate profits China's economic system is a threat? Is Saudi Arabia's nationalization of natural resources and controlling OPEC represent a threat ? Does the 80 percent of rare earth's controlled by China represent a threat? Does India's manufacture of drugs threaten BigPharm and constitute a threat?
The political philosophy that if you threaten national profits you become national security threat is merely old school fascism.
13
And raison d’être as well. War must be waged, so defining the enemy and occupying a battle field is essential.
1
Accusing the company of "working to advance Beijing's global ambitions" is such a broad charge. American companies too can be accused of doing the same for Washington.
US seems to have suddenly woken up to the possibility that China is becoming a strong nation. Until now American companies were encouraged to set up factories in China to produce cheap goods that were then exported back to US. Did the US think that China would forever be content with this and not aspire to greater technological know how?
It looks like in the US, the foreign policy dept does not speak to the trade dept. All these eventualities should have been foreseen earlier.
China is an opaque nation with a one party rule which does not have an independent judiciary. America is right to worry about security concerns with China but it cannot stop China from becoming a technological giant or stop other nations from trading with it.
This incident highlights the ad hoc nature of American foreign policy. While other great nations have long term planning and continuity in their foreign policy, we lurch from one view to another. This is most obvious under Trump but previous administrations have done the same.
21
@Meenal Mamdani
"American companies too can be accused of doing the same for Washington."
Really?
Name one American company that is at the behest of the US government the same way Huawei is for the Chinese.
2
@EV
Boeing
Lockheed
Pratt and Whitney
UTC
Should I go on?
5
@John
Really now. And the US Government controls what they do? Their operations are subsidized by a slave labor force? They are required by law to support the regime? Their operations are coordinated by the government?
Please, do go on.
2
If Bolton and Trump think that on the eve of trade talk with the indictments will pressure China to cry uncle I think they have another thing coming. I predict here that Chinese delegation will demand Ms. Meng's release and they will pack their bags will no agreement or even further meeting after 2 days.
6
@xeroid47
Sure, do it !
It would be apt to see how bad it can get before one blinks.
1
It is only from reading the comments that I learned that the US is the only nation who imposes sanctions of Iran and that no other country considered doing business with Iran to be illegal. Isn't that a pertinent part to this story? Why is it not mentioned?
12
@Joseph
It is only from reading the comments that I learned that the US is the only nation who imposes sanctions of Iran and that no other country considered doing business with Iran to be illegal. Isn't that a pertinent part to this story? Why is it not mentioned?
[ Perfect. ]
1
I dislike Trump as much as the next guy, but there are a lot of comments here about him that seem to be claiming that he somehow personally ordered Meng's arrest, etc.... While I agree his comment about using her as a negotiating chip was stupid and made it seem like the US was "hostage taking", I really, really don't believe that the prosecutors were at all motivated by the trade war. Indeed, this case started well before Trump somehow gained the presidency. I wish people would read up on the case and it's history before using this forum for Trump bashing.
9
I've maintained for years, that Huawei's Santa Clara CA research center was being used for industrial espionage, tech IP theft and technology transfer to China. Why else are they here as they don't sell any products in the U.S.?
Last year, AT&T and Verizon stopped selling Huawei smartphones in their stores after Huawei begin equipping the devices with its own chip sets. The National Security Agency raised alarms that with Huawei supplying its own parts, the Chinese company would control every major element of its networks. N.S.A. feared it would no longer be able to rely on American and European providers to warn of any evidence of malware, spying or other covert action.
3
As an American who has worked around Asia for decades and knows well the bad reputation mainland Chinese "businessmen" have, seeing the US government finally doing something about it is long overdue.
.
And it's disheartening to see how Trump hate makes so many people side with Huawei and the totalitarian regime in Beijing over our own FBI and Justice Department.
.
A couple of points that seem to be missed by many commenters. First, these investigations began under Obama's administration. Second, the Iran sanctions in question we imposed by the UN, the EU, and the US in 2009.
.
Trump might be the guy in the White House while all this is coming down, but it's been ongoing for years and it's way overdue if you believe in rule-of-law, democracy, and capitalism. I do. And it's good to see the DOJ and FBI finally calling out Beijing with criminal charges. Naming and shaming simply don't work with that government.
17
>>> "Officials have long suspected Huawei of working to advance Beijing’s global ambitions and undermine America’s interests and have begun taking steps to curb its international presence."
Uh-huh. So it makes perfect sense to treat a foreign national who does those things as a criminal, subject to US jurisdiction, which extends into every nook and cranny of the planet -- at least in our fevered national imagination.
What could go wrong?
8
@Douglas
They're subject to US law because the do business in the US.
Or do you prefer to allow foreign nationals and Companies to come into the US, break the law here, and then return home with no repercussions.
2
This is just more Trump-manufactured crisis to keep him in the news cycle, make him look important, keep everyone reacting to him, distract from Mueller/House investigations.
What's next on the agenda? Invasion of Venezuela? Another shutdown? A national emergency? Refusal to raise the debt ceiling? A NATO pullout? Middle east shakeup?
Lots to choose from.
Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
1
Meanwhile the People Republic of China retaliated on Canada by arresting to Canadian citizens and condemning a third one to death. And President Trump politicize the case by saying that the fate of Meng Wanzhou could depend on the result of trade talks between PRC and USA. And as today the USA still did nor request the extradition of Meng Wanzhou. Which by the way she living under bail, while the three Canadians are in jail, and they could be a long time in jail because extradition procedure could be very long, months or years.
6
If Canada gives up Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou, there WILL BE one "alleged" Canadian drug smuggler who will be executed!
4
@Majortrout It's not an alleged, it's a sentenced drug smuggler, and not for the first time. He had the foreigner privilege to get only fifteen years. This privilege went down the tube with the USA bullying China.
2
@Majortrout
The CBC reported on this guy's previous drug trafficking convictions in Canada.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/schellenberg-china-drugs-sentence-death-1.4977808
If he in fact was convicted of smuggling meth out of China, and China's laws impose the death penalty, well then this guy doesn't have much of a case.
It's unfortunate for him, but he doesn't exactly seem to be an upstanding individual.
2
So what does the British bank - HSBC - headquartered in Hong Kong have to say about being “defrauded?”
3
@God
HSBC dumped Huawei as a client and went to the FBI when they realized Huawei had been lying to them. Hope that answers your question.
3
From the article (& "a ittle" off topic)
“We are once again putting the world on notice that we will do everything in our power to stop those that disregard U.S. law,”
Reminds me of another "person" in the news that should be dealt with.
5
The Trump administration is either consciously trying to undermine any agreement with China on trade talks or, as usual, is just incompetent and clueless. There is no other explanation, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the Trump presidency in a nutshell.
6
The US is wildly making enemies of everyone at once. Any one move can be justified, at least as a judgment call.
However, picking off opponents one by one is strategy, divide and conquer.
Massing enemies to be as formidable as possible is the opposite of strategy, commonly labeled hubris.
We knew Trump is a clown, but now it is clowns all the way down.
8
Since Pelosi won the last round, this way the Trump administration can flex its muscles for their base.
1
Meng was arrested for extradition on charges of bank fraud, namely by fraudulently obtaining banking services in contravention of sanctions against Iran. Now it seems other charges have been added. If Canadian courts decided the new charges are abuse of process, they may bar the US from prosecuting the new charges as a condition of extradition.
Many know that possession of cannabis is now legal in Canada. Crown prosecutors are not prosecuting anybody who happened to possess cannabis before it became legal. Similarly I haven't heard of any Canadian prosecution for violation of Iran sanctions now that they have been abolished everywhere but in the US.
Abuse of process is ample reason to refuse extradition.
Advice to US (and Canadian) citizens doing business in China: Get out while you can. I fully realize that such advice renders me guilty of obstruction of justice under Chinese law.
8
Here is how I see it. There is tons of extra-national legal concepts being applied, whether or not valid. But the case unfurled is against US established corporations principally. I believe an attempt to have Meng testify against the cited illegal actions of those corporations will be extracted. Then, as the corporations plea out, pay penalties, suffer forfeitures and are dissolved upon conviction, a pall upon Huawei will be cast globally. The example of this prosecution will chill the smaller nations who were considering implementing Huawei 5G. They won’t want a similar case on their backs either.
1
There is little chance for charges against Huawei executive to be taken seriously by the International Court of Justice, if they are solely based on evading Iran sanctions. The UN, and therefore the ICJ, consider U.S. sanctions against Iran to be illegal; thus they do not view "evading" them to be a crime.
I would not be surprised if the US will be sued by China (and possibly EU) in ICJ for its imposition of sanctions on other countries based on purely political considerations.
10
I wish the US government would keep in mind that there are thousands of Americans living in China who have to worry about being snatched off the street and arbitrarily detained as "hostages" in this mess (not to mention the Canadians already suffering the consequences). If this woman broke the law, yes, she should be prosecuted, but rhetoric turning this into an epic battle of political and economic systems puts all of us here at greater risk. This is a financial crime, not a thriller, but the US treating it as a symbolic representation of everything it dislikes about China has made the issue explosive news rather than a matter of fines and paperwork. Of course, Trump is safely ensconced in the White House and doesn't have to worry personally about the consequences.
14
This is ridiculous. Weren't the "sanctions" imposed by the U.S. and other rouge nations in defiance of the consensus of civilized nations that Iran had substantially complied with the terms of the nuclear agreement? What standing can such sanctions possibly have? Where does the U.S. get off acting as if it were the arbiter of what is right? This president and administration should make every American feel ashamed. It's disgraceful.
20
@Jeff
No, actually, the sanctions were imposed by the UN, the US, and the EU, together, back in 2009. So save your shame for another day, sorry, this ain't the one.
3
You forget, West Coaster: There was an agreement between Iran and the P5+1 to lift the sanctions, as part of the nuclear deal framework. Iran kept its part of the deal and the other parties to the deal have acted accordingly . . .
. . . until, that is, the US unilaterally withdrew from the agreement and -- also unilaterally -- reimposed sanctions.
So, maybe reconsider and feel some of that shame. It's well-deserved.
9
@Douglas
These crimes were committed before the sanctions were lifted and they were for bank fraud and money laundering.
So, no, not feeling any shame for now bringing criminal charges. If I'm ashamed at all, it's because our business elite and government allowed the CCP and their cronies to steal so much American technology with impunity for so many years.
2
The sanctions against Iran are just more Imperialist bullying. I applaud this woman for evading them.
The U.S. is the only nation that has broken the nuclear deal. If the other nations weren’t so afraid of the U.S. Imperialist bully they would sanction the U.S.
28
There's no way to know if this is legit or if it's just political gamesmanship, but one thing we do know is that this will further sour our relationship with the Chinese. Retaliation of some sort is just around the corner.
13
What hypocrisy, Trump has done the exact equivalent of everything being charged here! Except it’s not a foreign power, but it’s the President of the United States.
16
@Robert M. Koretsky So has Trump been selling technology to Iran? Perhaps he is invidious and it is likely he would do anything to develop his business relationship with Russia, including selling the US to achieve that end, but China is doing what it does for the enrichment of the country (forget about human rights for its people) but Trump does not care about the US, he cares about his business, first and foremost and any action to strengthen the US is based on this underlying goal. So I think there are differences between his rule of the US and China's totalitarian government's decisions and trading practices.
2
What are the reasons for the so called sanctions? Eventually this practice will catch up with the USA, making so many enemies around the world. Eventually the USA will pay high price. Russia is thriving under USA sanctions. It helped Russia to develop their very own industries, to meet their domestic demands.
11
@RBR If Russia is "thriving under USA sanctions", it's because of the giant loopholes carved out for the likes of Oleg Derepaska by his Republican cronies in the US Senate and the White House. Obama would not have let this happen, nor let Huawei off the hook now – and without the most mindless trade war the world has ever seen.
2
Some European banks got busted for evading Iran sanctions and laundering money a couple of years ago. Funny: no one got arrested or sent to jail, they just paid some money and went on to the next scheme. Odd that they’ve arrested this particular CEO. She is likely guilty, but they sure do handle it differently when it’s not a bank or a Western CEO.
15
Trump "toying" with granting Ms. Meng freedom in exchange for a trade deal smacks of exactly the hostage-taker he has proven to be.
And while China lands on the dark side of the moon in a historic first for humankind, and flies by us, too, with their 5G network development - Trump shut our government down to demand a China-circa-13th century Wall. That's exactly the Luddite we expected Trump to be.
At this rate, with Trump in office, we should catch up to China in about a century, if it stands as completely still as the Wall that Trump is so desperate to build.
33
@common sense advocate
Luddite? Are you kidding me? Mr. Trump says he knows tech "better than anyone." And if you need a proof, he has a good one to offer: his uncle used to teach at MIT!
There is no reason to be surprised. After all he is a "very stable genius."
5
U.S. Formally Accuses Huawei Executive of Helping Evade Iran Sanctions
The Justice Department unveiled charges against Meng Wanzhou, the chief financial officer of the Chinese telecom giant Huawei, who was arrested in Canada last year.
The charges come at a sensitive diplomatic moment, as top Chinese officials are expected to arrive in Washington this week for trade talks.
[ We can then forbid any person in the world for doing business in a country we alone decide to sanction. No matter if that person is Chinese. This is beyond the rule of law. This is an American imperial act beyond all actual law. ]
16
@Nancy
International law is very weak. Some dictators openly laugh at it. China ignores the laws of the sea, and the US is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court. Political negotiations are more important and more powerful that international law.
2
@Nancy
Nobody wants to do business with you Chinese anyway, given how you are treating the Uyghurs, the Tibetans, and of course, the followers of Falun Gong. We can get cheap products from elsewhere now. China’s descent has begun.
1
Glad to see this “current” White House and gov. hold firm to the sanctions. Or at least the threat, you never know these days. IP / Industrial Theft is a huge issue for us/USA.
Whether she is a pawn, I’m not so sure. Then again I wouldn’t be surprised at all.
3
@T. Maartin
Meng is not a pawn. She is the Queen. If Trump gets her, he can get the Trade Deal plus free the Canadians.
1
@Jeff Stockwell
Freeing 3 Canadians is worth nothing in a negotiation. They were taken hostage as a result of Meng being arrested.
@EV
Meng is the Queen of China and she will soon be in the hands of the Americans. Trump will find a way. He knows she is valuable. At the very least he will free the Canadians. She is worth so much more. Wait and watch.
This is the right move. It's obvious what is happening and has been happening in this industry for a long time. I'm not a Trump supporter at all but being from the industry I applaud him on this one.
16
@Keith I agree. The knee jerk reaction of most NYT readers is to assume that the US govt is on the wrong side of this issue but IP theft and security threats are very real. Most of the people in the US government do know what they are doing even if the POTUS does not.
3
@JohnFred
Most of the readers here who are criticizing this don’t seem to be US residents or citizens, even though they are implying to be.
2
This is clearly American Exceptionalism. First, it is incumbent upon the American banks to know who they are doing business with. To know every party involved in the transactions, the American banks failed to do this by way of accepting face value statements from a Chinese corporation known for cheating and stealing (bad business practices).
Second, it was the US which imposed those sanctions upon Iran, Huawei is a Chinese company, bound by Chinese law, not the laws governing the United States.
Third, the US best not complain when other countries begin to arrest executives of lockheed martin and other businesses which have profited off our wars in other nations, for war profiteering.
We are fast becoming the laughing stock of the world with our sense of entitlement and exceptionalism.
42
@Robert
Problem is Huawei, at the beck and call of the Chinese government, constitutes a major threat to the security of the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Europe, inter alia.
The US government, alongside the "Five eyes", thankfully understands that threat.
I disagree with Mr Trump on almost everything, and he is not exactly likeable, but he is correct on the issue of China.
14
You should know that many giant companies are owned and controlled by the French government. Let me know before the US declares war on France.
1
...i would not be surprised that Ms. Meng is set free.
Thanks to Mr. Trump's musings, such is the Rule of Law.
...indeed, Canadians now wonder if they have been thrown under a bus, what with the fact that little seems like pure coincidence, regarding the timing of American actions in these matters.
...i recall Mr. Snowden, and the secrets he revealed. It seems that China knows Capitalism all too well; and they have played its game as well as any. I do not like the idea that innovations such as these have any State control; the future depends on our Humanity and Grace.
While i hope for excellent results, Justice seen, it is hard to imagine that the case against Huawei would be credible under these circumstances and atmosphere.
13
What a mess. The US started this trade war, with no defined endgame. Too bad.
It’s like the US and China are handcuffed together in the middle of a lake, punching each other with their free hands.
The looser of the fight will finally get so exhausted he will drown, and eventually sink to the bottom, dragging the winner of the fight down with him.
10
When president Trump said that he could intervene in Ms. Meng's case, I were suddenly woken up by this and thought that this is a politically motivated case to achieve better and greater results in trade talk with China. If we draw the first blood using this kind of tactics in important dealings, what will China do in a similar case next time? Do we cry foul or call bloody murder? This sets a bad example in global affair.
15
Let us assume that the prosecution is well-founded, and that America is in the right on the trade issues. That does not justify charges against Ms. Meng personally. Charges against Huawei corporately would do everything the US could legitimately demand. If the charges are proven in court, a very significant penalty will be imposed, and a very valuable bargaining chip will be in the hands of the trade negotiators.
But charging Ms. Meng personally is ugly and unproductive. It reeks of Trump's "lock her up" brand of politics and the Department of "Justice"'s nasty brand of prosecution. The government can bully American citizens into pleading guilty by over-charging, without any consequences for the government, but doing that to a prominent a Chinese citizen with broad and deep connections with the communist oligarchs will provoke implacable resistance in trade and military confrontation.
But China is even stupider and more nasty. It nonsensically reacts to American hostage-taking by taking Canadian hostages. Arbitrary detention of the own citizens might be an effective domestic tactic, but it is amazing that they would think that they can intimidate Canadians or the Canadian government by such barbaric measures.
Neither America nor China can constrain the other alone. Both need the support of friends like Canada in trade and security. Yet both believe they are exceptional, preferring unilateral belligerence to cooperation.
World, we are in for a long rough ride.
37
Very important that Canada drop Huawei who were going to provide 5G equipment to Canada. If they do so, that could provide a backdoor into all North American data networks. Australia and New Zealand did the right thing in dumping Huawei. If any Huawei equipment already installed, it should be ripped out and not resold to anyone.
13
@Mainstay
Just as important is that in the issue of extradition Canada can be assured that this not one of Mr. Trump's games to get a good trade deal with China while playing real hardball with Canada. Canada has been a plaything for the US for too long and we all feel it's time that we stand our own ground and with it decide for ourselves whether to extradite or not.
And to decide what to do about Huawei on grounds that are true to our country. Not just to please our
neighbour to the south.
5
Whitaker and FBI director Christopher Wray both thanked Canadian officials for their help.
This was from an article on a different Canadian site, but makes me wonder if thanking a national security threat like Canada is appropriate. Tariff removals might be appreciated more than your thanks.
19
@zorroplata
Canada a security threat? We are invaded up here by American style violence and gunrunning across our border to the south is at all time high. And the guns are coming ur way.
We are also dealing with an ever increasing number of asylum seekers coming from the US where they do not feel safe.
4
@Petras Trump called us a national security threat to justify steel and aluminium tariffs.
1
Can you give an example of a U. S. Asylum seeker. Are you talking about illegal aliens, or U.S. citizens. what specifically are they seeking Asylum from?
Once again Canada is treated like some some third world nation while Trump caters to n. Korea an Russia.
I hope the next president has a little more common sense
53
As a U. S. citizen who has visited Canada including Toronto numerous times, I have the highest opinion of Canada. Cross from the U. S. side of Niagra falls to the Canadian side and the contrast is striking. Canada is clearly a first class nation.
2
Proper thing... get her outta Canada... she's been nothing but trouble for the Canadian government and our citizens wrongfully detained in that tyrannical, despotic dictatorship.
The very epitome of persona non grata...
7
@Skeptical Cynic do you mean your citizens wrongfully detained by the U.S.?
1
This is now the second time, the barbarians in the Trump Administration have used this case to undermine trade negotiations with China. Trump claims he didn't know she had been arrested. Do you think he also doesn't know that this is being brought up the day before Chinese ambassador/trade negotiator arrives in DC? Hardly.
Look, the whole country got a good look at how Trump "negotiates=attempts to intimidate" as the latest shut down unfolded. The Chinese are very concerned about face. To humiliate one of their national celebrities in finance the day before negotiations, is just plain mean and stupid.
24
@Ronald J Kantor, You are right. There are extremists in administration
who want no deal with China. This
indictment so close to the visit of
Chinese negotiator's arrival in
Washington makes it clear. This
is designed to sabotage the talks.
Chinese know it. They will see how
the negotiations go. If US is unwilling
to compromise, they will get tough
and few Americans may end up in
Chinese jail.
3
Good journalism requires to explain every article with a complete set of facts . The two Canadian arbitrary hijacked in China and the one Canadian with a criminal record in Chinese prison who saw his verdict overnight changed to the dead penalty are again not mentioned in this selective US reporting .
The two upstanding Canadians are the casualties and nobody in the US seems to care . That makes me wonder: "Why should Canada care for the bullies in Washington." Just return this lady to China !
46
Just give in to Chinese bullying. Got it.
3
@R.T. McConnel
No, just some common courtesy. A "deep thanks to Canada" aside from the AG doesn't cut it.
Look, I'm all for Canada honouring its extradition treaty with the U.S. That's what neighbours should do. And, no question, the U.S. is right to play hardball on the matter of Beijing's trade duplicity.
However, Aad Ahsmann is correct, too: Canada is taking a big hit from China for Meng's detainment. We have hostages in Chinese jails right now, promises of future economic reprisals from Beijing and little acknowledgement about any of this from U.S. media.
Remember, your country is still imposing tariffs on Canadian aluminum and steel under the pretext that we're supposedly a "security threat."
Meanwhile, Trump and the Republicans just passed legislation to relax sanctions on Rusal to make Oleg Deripaska and Putin happy. They threw in some sleight of hand from Steve Mnuchin to make it seem that Deripaska isn't still very much in control of the profits.
That's greed and graft over loyalty to an ally.
2
For the last 5 years before becoming Vice President, Dick Cheney as CEO and Chairman of the Board of Halliburton. During this time, Cheney & Halliburton used a subsidiary in the Cayman Islands to supply $25 million in oil refinery parts to Iran, dodging the sanctions.
29
Since this so-called administration took office, they have pulled out of international agreements and repeatedly placed the USA as being ABOVE international law, especially when it comes to war crimes.
Further, Trump has a penchant to do what benefits our traditional adversaries, destabilizing the West at every turn.
On top of this decidedly un-American behavior, the trade war Trump has unleashed on our trading partners has the global economy teetering on another Recession.
And yet NOW, tangential to all this behavior, Trump wants to continue to police sovereign nations and bully our allies into helping maintain order as he pleases.
If Trump and the GOP pretend that we're not part of a global economy anymore and that the ICC has no power to charge us with war crimes in, say, Afghanistan, then why should the rest of the world listen to a single thing Trump says?
Besides, every other comment out of Trump's mouth and thumbs is a lie anyways.
17
How is the USA going to look if the AG doesn't bring criminal charges on this woman, like a very petty administration I think.
How is the US going to look holding this woman for crimes by the corporation in collusion with China's intelligence apparatus? I guess it may be something to build a case on but do the optics look good? I don't know what Trump has to gain, he must be driving this car, other than laying the case out to the public and he could do that without an arrest.
This is a lose/lose game.
4
@Satyaban er sorry my attention was on the woman, they can't charge her with corporate actions that she didn't have her fingerprints on can they?
So China is taking the arrest of Meng out on Canadians by arresting them for political reasons, which goes against Western values, but then Trump has floated the idea of using her as a pawn similar to what they've done?!
Don't stoop to their level. We pride ourselves on being better than them in this regard and shouldn't give them reason to continue this game. If Meng is guilty, throw the book at her, but please, follow the rules and don't politicise her case.
3
@Keiran Bit late for that if you are Canadian.
It's going to be interesting to see how the Canadians sort out the political angle for the deportation of Ms. Wanzhou. If they feel her deportation is politically motivated they're not supposed to refuse the extradition request. According to the article: "President Trump had previously publicly toyed with the idea of granting Ms. Meng freedom if it would help secure a trade deal, much to the dismay of law enforcement officials."
This is also true for the Congress. In proposed Federal legislation under H.R. 4747 (9 JAN 2018), at 3(b)(3)(A) it specifically identifies: "Telecommunications equipment produced by Huawei Technologies Company or ZTE Corporation (or any subsidiary or affiliate of such entities)."
The legal decision my rest on whether the Canadians feel this a legitimate legal case, or merely serves the needs of a vendetta in the cyberwar.
@W: Under the Canada-US extradition treaty, a state party may arrest someone on the warrant of the other; but whether that someone is in fact extradited depends on whether a court in the arresting country finds that there is a decent prima facie case and, crucially, whether the impugned action is illegal in the country being asked to deliver. This will be the focus of legal arguments before a judge in Vancouver, who may find the allegations would not be against the law in Canada, in which case Ms. Meng would be released from bail and free to go home. If the court finds that the two tests have been passed, there would likely be a number of appeals, taking many months.
1
@Harry
Your description is consistent with my understanding of the law. However, there are two (2) points to consider:
(1) If the judge finds that her extradition is politically motivated, then he/she may not grant the extradition request. The point of my comment is that there is the appearance of a political vendetta against Huawei by the U.S. Government; that is, it is a tit-for-tat punitive measure in the political battle to gain dominance in the worldwide control of back doors in phone systems (a.k.a. electronic warfare, or the cyberwar). Canada and the U.S. cooperate heavily on this matter(the five-eyes agreement), with a good example being people with U.S. security clearances are routinely hired to staff Canadian telecom facilities.
(2) The subject of the arrest is the alleged sale of phone equipment in Iran. This would be outside the jurisdiction of Canadian law. The issue appears to rest on treaty law; that is, whether the U.S. and Canada are both signatories to the same treaty, and whether a treaty was broken by the actions of Huawei.
It is competitive, we are not going to let another country control the future. Guys, nobody is willing to stop competing, so we need to win.
1
Then what’s wrong with China stealing ips? Isn’t your argument perfectly justify their actions?
@Liger
Do you believe in US or in China?
1
I join others below in lauding this long overdue action.
I think this is an extraordinarily strong case for Canada to hand over this woman.
It's interesting to note that they moved employees out of America - I hope we use Interpol to track them down and extradite them as well.
If Canada fails - I hope we announce a series of sanctions.
It's about time China learned to play by the rules it's customers - that is us in the west - adhere to.
7
Sanctions against Canada? Two Canadians are in custody and another Canadian has received the death penalty as retaliation by the Chinese. I think Canadians have done/given enough in this situation.
2
Shouldn't the title read "Evade US Imposed Iran Sanctions?" The sanctions are totally outside international law and no country should be bound by them unless a UN resolution is in place. We can't go rogue and expect the rest of the world to follow.
33
@Rilke US sanctions against Iran mean that if you trade with Iran, you can't do business with US at the same time, and certainly not use/export US technology. Huwaei is hardly the first firm charged. The British bank Standard Chartered currently faces $1.5 billion in fines for this.
@Rilke A UN resolution is a nonbinding resolution and hos no legal authority. If Spain were to vote against the resolution and it passes, Spain would still be in violation of it even they they clearly stated that they would not support it.
Trump can win the trade war against China without taking Meng Wenzhou as a hostage. Trump can focus on denying the markets to Chinese products. For security reasons and world peace, he can block advanced Chinese products built from stolen technology, tax products made in communist countries and give tax credits to products made in democratic countries. There is absolutely no reason wasting energy and time on trivial issues like Wall. China is using their corporations to spread communism and US should use our corporations to spread democracy.
2
Agree with you... except the part where Trump is president and beats China. He doesn’t have the wherewithal
1
the use of corporations as communist agents is as bizarre as the use and confusion of corporations as part of or representative of democracy. corporations are people, my friend- greedy, soulless, stateless, amoral people withot responsibility to anyone but their owners, and only become involved with governments when they are in trouble or want something.
2
That's called business in China. Where Communists beat Capitalists at their own game. And punch out in Vancouver when times get tough.
4
Here, here! The Chinese have been stealing our IP for decades.
This action is long overdue!
16
@Greetings - For the most part, China is interested in stealing military, political, & competitive business information from the US. They are not so interested in our technologies since they are well beyond us in many areas. China introduced UHDTV (4K) in 2010. They had 8K (16 times the resolution of America's current HD) in 2014, and are working on higher resolutions still. While China has lagged over the past 2 years & the US has made up some ground, we should not forget that it wasn't many years ago that the fastest American supercomputers were rated at around 16 PetaFLOPS (billion floating-point operations a second) while the fastest Chinese supercomputers were rated at more than 30 PetaFLOPS. 2 of the 5 fastest supercomputer designs were Chinese. Having worked both in Hong Kong with Chase Bank's International Trade department software and remotely with Shanghai (on the 4k & 8K UHD technologies), I can testify to the excellence of both their developers & technologies.
6
@Greetings It's hear, hear.
3
visit China and you will discover at least two things: cheap DVDs of stolen American movies on sale every few steps along the street in even small towns ( our intellectual property and work product)... and for a supposedly Communist country, the Chinese are obsessed with money, earnings, status, and branded luxury goods. the only thing actually Communist is the name of the one despotic political party.
5
One can only hope that the White House, to demonstrate to the world their seriousness on this critical issue of cyber-security, will demand that all personnel forgo use of any electronic computing devices with known Chinese origin content.
The resulting Twitter silence might prove to be a wonderful respite.
14
China institutionalized international theft of state and proprietary secrets over many decades which was largely ignored by previous presidents. American and other foreign nations have built Chinese technology so that it could undercut us in trade. Why this masochistic behavior? Somebody made a profit on this besides the Chinese.
2
@Frank Jay
China took advantage of chaos that started after 9/11. I remember reading ‘window of strategic opportunity’ somewhere in this context.
1
Trump may not be good at much, but, as our recent shutdown has shown, he seems to have a penchant for hostage taking...that ultimately boomerangs.
7
"..give Canada reason not to extradite her on the grounds that the United States is politicizing a sanctions enforcement case, rather than pursuing a straightforward legal matter."
Now, could someone please explain to your current President what the word "allies" means. He's already made things very difficult for us. To use this case for his own personal interests could push our country off an extremely unforgiving cliff.
19
@Bart Manierka
DJT is making Trudeau, Jr., do this? Really?
Think. Now. Please. Thanks.
I agree that the leaders of Huawei are involved with these indictments. And it's probably that there are other actions there are present in the U.S. and allies. If the administration of the U.S think this will not effect the trade talks starting this week and/or the arresting of Americans in China for trade, they are smoking and drinking the wrong stuff. That issue plus Venezuela is a full plate and dessert is the Wall. Going to be a fascinating February.
2
If the United States has long suspected this entity of working to advance Beijing’s global ambitions and undermine America’s interests, why can’t we get an indictment against Trump? He has been working to advance Russia’s global ambitions and undermining America’s interests, too!
21
In due time all will be brought to justice. My fear is that these actions against Hwawei are being timed to distract from Mueller’s forthcoming report. Having said that, it is no time to be weak in the face of China’s ambition to undermine the global rules based order. Let’s keep our eyes on both important matters.
"why can’t we get an indictment against Trump?" Because after intense investigation including weaponizing the DOJ and perhaps the FISA court, they have found no evidence of a crime with the President and no evidence of conspiracy with the Russians.
In short, it is easier to get an indictment if the target has broken the law.
The US is an international thug; I am far more worried about a US out of control than I am of China. Let's remember that the John Bolton and Donald Trump have made it absolutely clear that, for them, international law does not apply to the US. Let's remember how the US has abused its economic position by imposing tariffs on Canadian aluminum and steel, claiming they are a threat to national security. Let's remember how it has threatened to do the same to European cars and other goods. Let's remember that is the US that is presently threatening the function of the WTO and the system of international law everywhere. The US war on Huawei is an effort by an international bully to maintain its ability to bully, threaten and abuse the rest of the world. The Chinese may not be the best alternative to the US, but they have been far less threatening to international law and stability. Canada made a major mistake by arresting Ms. Meng. I hope that she is freed by the court; barring that, I hope that Canada's Justice Minister has the guts to block her extradition and set her free. It is clear that the US has declared war on Huawei for geopolitical reasons. Ms. Meng is a pawn in that attack and Canada should not do anything to encourage American international thuggery.
151
@Shaun Narine
The idea had America can make it a crime for a foreign citizen to do business with another country that we alone have "sanctioned" is beyond all law. America is trying to ruin China, and this is beyond all law.
America is acting undemocratically and I am appalled.
20
Let me remind you that Donald Trump’s days are numbered as the wheels of justice slowly grind. Xi Jinping, on the other and, has recently made himself president for life. Don’t let your justifiable disgust for the malfeasance and incompetence of Trump cloud your ability to see the threat that Xi’s regime represents. China sees Canada as nothing more than a resource rich region to be exploited similar to Africa or it’s own Xinjiang province. Don’t lose sight of what’s at stake: the very rules based order which has allowed the global economy (yes even China’s) to flourish.
14
@Nancy
America is not barring a foreign company/citizen from doing business with Iran. Any foreign company doing business with a US company has to sign an agreement that they will not resell US products or transfer US technology to Iran. Huawei gets into trouble with the US government because they resold US products (HP products) to Iran and they lied to banks in the US about it.
6
At this point, these companies are repeat offenders, and in no way should be allowed access to next generation technology in our countries.
Cisco, T-Mobile, Nortel Networks & the skirting of sanctions by ZTE (and Huawei) are beyond proof enough that these companies act as extensions of Chinese government cyber intelligence & corporate espionage.
5
I have no idea whether Ms. Meng participated in a scheme to bypass the Iran sanctions, but here's something that I do know: In 2014 the US NSA broke into Huawei's data center in Shenzhen. They stole emails belonging to the CEO and much proprietary information. They also compromised Huawei's global data network. This is well-documented in https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html
The most interesting part of this story is that the NSA justified the break-in by saying that the theft was necessary in order to gather evidence of spying committed by Huawei. No such evidence was found.
I personally believe that the NSA's break-in of Huawei's data center is a far more serious matter than these charges that Huawei tried to circumvent the Iran sanctions (but that's a matter of opinion).
Ms. Meng is as well known in China as Bill Gates or Tim Cook is in the US. The US is playing a dangerous game by trying to bring her to the US to face possible imprisonment. I don't think anyone is looking at the endgame here.
It's increasingly clear that our president, and nearly everyone around him, has committed criminal acts. I think we've got better things to do right now than create an international situation from which it may be very difficult to extricate ourselves.
124
@ShenBowen
If you think that US operations against the Communist Party of China's organs (and they have shown that no citizen or corporation is free from their heavy handed influence) is a "far more serious matter" than the Chinese Communist Party's operations against the free world, then you just favor that repressive regime. Who need Facebook to find agents of foreign influence sowing dissent in the US? They can be found right here in the pages of the New York Times.
9
Meng was not well known in China before her arrest.
6
@Totally Fine: You say: "Meng was not well known in China before her arrest." Yes, I fact-checked myself. You're right. Her father was well-known because of his position, but he also keeps a low profile. She was not very well-known in China before her arrest... but she certainly is now. Thanks for the fact check.
3
I get the IP stuff, but by what vehicle can a Chinese company be prosecuted for violating U.S.-imposed sanctions on Iran? I'm genuinely curious.
11
@Tom
She was using US Banks to send money to Iran and lying about the destination. That is in fact, very illegal.
7
@Snake6390
I'm wondering about jurisdiction... whether or not something is "illegal" depends on whose laws your subject to, and where the acts were committed. Sounds like maybe some US banks could be in violation, if they were willing participants.
It's against US law to beat your wife, but there are other places where it isn't. Can we reach into those countries and extradite those husbands for violating US law? That's a crude example, but that's the shape of the question I'm asking.
"President Trump had previously publicly toyed with the idea of granting Ms. Meng freedom if it would help secure a trade deal ... Doing so could give Canada reason not to extradite her on the grounds that the United States is politicizing a sanctions enforcement case, rather than pursuing a straightforward legal matter." Donald Trump can always be counted on to interfere with the workings of Justice, and to foul up international relations.
9
If the charges are founded (and due to the severity of them, at this point we have to trust that USA has the evidence to proceed in court). This disclosure is only what is legally required so as not to jeopardize their court case against Huawei. It should also help take the target off Canada by China if we in Canada proceed as quickly as possible through the extradition process to USA, especially now that open charges are made public). China must release Canadians from their false detention as they only compound their problems with the West.
9
Just to pre-empt the apologists for China;
“Every country does this type of stuff.”
“There’s nothing wrong authoritarianism.”
“Seriously, China just wants to be everyone’s friend.”
“Steel tariffs and the Iraq War proves that the USA is as bad as Stalin...now I’m gonna go eat my avocado toast.”
...and so on...
39
@Dudesworth Agrée with your first point, however it's a pity that thé US seldom respects other countries laws.
6
@MH...you are right. My sarcasm aside, the Iraq War really did ruin our credibility around the world and we should be participating in the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Bush and Cheney should be behind bars.
8
Finally the Americans are taking the gloves off. Enough happy talk and "optimistically hoping" China is going to play by the rules America and the rest of the West adheres to. They either play fair or they don't play at all.
As for my country, Canada, the extradition request has done two extremely positive things:
1) It is forcing Trudeau's gov't to choose between China's regressive (if murderous) communist regime and America's rules-based order. I for one choose America!
2) It has also unmasked China's communist party for what it really is - a gang of thugs who, if they can't get what they want via the normal means, resort to kidnapping, death sentences and name calling. (Really China? Calling CANADA "a white supremacist foreign enemy???")
China could be the greatest influence for good this world has ever seen. But, with the communist party in power this will never happen.
188
@JOHNNY CANUCK And in response China has imprisoned two Canadians and sentenced a third to death for drug charges. It is the US that ordered Canada's action through an extradition treaty and Trump is throwing fuel on the fire by considering using Meng as a bargaining chip for trade deals - all of this with no actions taken against Americans.
8
@Harpo
The fact that China has unfairly arrested two Canadians is an indictment of the Communist regime, not America. Why would you want to ally yourself with such a government that would throw your fellow countrymen in prison whenever you honor your treaties and global commitments?
I don't like Trump one bit but the crackdown on Chinese espionage is long overdue. If China is unfairly targeting your citizens join us in targeting them.
14
The Russian (once Soviet) government was and is also a mafia gang with government sanctions.
I listened to one of the most idiotic 'Fox and Friends' episodes ever this morning about how the US academic establishment is'filled' with Socialists, just like Soviet Russia.
The Soviet Union was never Socialist, it was simply a gang. The total collapse of the Soviet Union was partly based on their failure to ever do anything beyond their gang moves.
4
I may say that if companies look for cheap countries to do business with, well, they may still your secrets and start a competition of the same product but a lot cheaper than the original.
7
But....they "swore" they'd done no wrong.
Guess taking a page out of Putin's playbook isn't working too well this time.
2
@Paul P.
That only works if Putin/Xi has something on you. Trump never planned a Tower in China … and he only stole the idea of a Wall from the Chinese.
5
While I have very little confidence in Trump and his team to do anything competently, the timing of the talks with China is very conducive to gaining concessions from the PRC--their growth is slowing, they're facing internal political pressure, etc. And, honestly, the fact that Trump is obviously unhinged could, perhaps, even help the situation. He's already shown he's willing to do things that are obviously not in the U.S.'s best interest. That leaves everything on the table--he might follow through with something that would severely harm both the U.S. and China. I don't think this is lost on the Chinese side. Them, being more reasonable, will hopefully have to bend more to ensure the worst doesn't come to pass.
I'd feel much better if they had more reasonable people leading the talks, however, and not the hawks that have been appointed. I'm afraid they might snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, looking for everything they want and not bending at all. The U.S. actually has a relatively strong hand here, but don't overdo it.
9
China needs to be upfront
They aren’t and we know why
15
Bravo!! Long overdue. We can’t allow Chinese government hide behind bushes when comes to stealing our intellectual properties!!
57
Finally some action against the blatant theft of IP. The Chinese approach to business is steal and copy better, but infecting 5G networks is something very worrying indeed.
78
"President Trump had previously publicly toyed with the idea of granting Ms. Meng freedom if it would help secure a trade deal, much to the dismay of law enforcement officials." Given Trump's record of lies, why would the government of Canada believe a thing he says? Ms. Meng will be on her way home soon and the Chinese will release the Canadians they detained in retaliation. Is this another win for Trump? What sort of game will be run on him by the North Koreans? This is all maddening to watch.
31
@Vern Castle There is no reason to believe the Chinese will release hostages taken in this dispute. One thing to keep in mind is the Cdn. RCMP have no political obligations to the PM office. Even if the government wanted to say "no" they couldn't without being arrested themselves for obstruction. Apparently, this is not as easily executed in the US :)
I agree with you if the US has fabricated any of the charges, it will end up hurting future extradition with Canada as well as souring Chinese relations. I am eagerly awaiting the Canadian justice's ruling on whether or not the extradition request meets the standard. In either case, it will be made public soon.
This is great news, as Chinese companies should be held to the fire for all of the wrong doing they do. It is also deplorable that Trump "toyed" with the idea of politicizing this alleged criminal activity for the sake of his getting a trade deal (AKA his personal agenda).
50
I'm torn - I actually believe Hunwei is effectively an extension of the Chinese government. However the thuggish manner in which the U.S. seems to be pressuring friend and foe alike to stop using their hardware bothers me.
No easy answers on this clearly, but this tit-for-tat arrests going on under the radar won't end well.
72
@Nick
extradition is an established protocol, what is thuggish?
Are you aware that Huawei equipment has been found to to contain hidden small chips that allow the 'entity that planted that chip' to circumvent security? Is the US thuggish for making our allies aware of such misuse and manipulation possibilities? When you tattle on devil for being evil you are doing a GOOD DEED.
9
@Nick
Invoking an extradition treaty is the opposite of thuggish, it is following international protocol and asking an allied nation to honor its treaties.
4
@Laurence Bachmann Which Canada honored and rightly so. China's reaction to Canada by illegally detaining Canadian citizens in China without probable cause only reinforces many of our beliefs that China has something to hide. If people were "torn" before, they're not anymore. In my city, Richmond BC, about 50% of the residents are Chinese ethnicity and about half of that are 1st generation Canadians (born in China). None whom have spoke with me believe the Chinese government is being transparent. "There is always something to hide" and "You can never believe anything the Communist Party says" are the most common answers. There's a reason these people stay in Canada.
1
It feels fishy that of all the US firms that have been found guilty of violating the Iran sanctions, a Chinese firm would be the first one to be charged for it.
92
@YW
First of all, how do you find a company "guilty of violating the Iran sanctions" without first having charged it with a crime? Secondly, in April 2015, 4 companies and 5 individuals were charged with Iran sanctions.
How's that for fishy?
10
Another baseless comment that tries to divert attention. Possibly a Chinese bot. Who said she was the first one charged? Just Google "Iran sanction violation us company" and you will find plenty of cases.
Disgusting.
9
@Z
Those were civil cases against corporations. Meng is the first individual executive to be criminally charged.
The government's complaints against Huawei are all things that are normally resolved in civil court. There would be no outcry if Huawei were sued in civil court over this. In fact, T-Mobile brought suit against Huawei and won a $5 million verdict in civil court based on this very incident. It barely made the news.
People are upset now because the government is selectively enforcing the law against Chinese people. Uber recently settled a theft of trade secrets case for $250 million--50 times more than in this Huawei case--yet the government did not bring criminal charges against Uber.
Apparently, our normal legal processes do not apply to Chinese people. Small wonder people in other countries think everything we say about rule of law is a sham.
13