It's a shame about the Afghan women but we have been there 18 years and have spent huge quantities of blood and treasure there - to no noticeable benefit. It's impossible to civilize places like that. When we leave, the Taliban will quickly take over. There is simply too much support among Afghanis for the political, cultural and religious arrangement that the Taliban offers. There's nothing we can do about that. Our interest is to make sure that they don't produce more terrorists that strike us. People who did collaborate with us will doubtless be slaughtered. But we need to get out. This will end like Viet Nam. The Taliban will rule within a few days after we leave.
3
How many of the commentators on this feed have read the Q'ran? The problems described in the article are not confined to Afghanistan. They are endemic to every country that has any sizeable Moslem population. The foundations of Islam were founded in a severe loathing of all things female.
Even in the USA we have a congressional representative who wears a slave scarf and who will not answer queries about her stance of female mutilation.
The Afghani women have little or no hope. No Islamic country will support them, the USA under Dimwit will not help them,
A repeated theme in the comments that follow my post is why do some women enable the abuse of other women, including their daughters and nieces? Most women in modern society, regardless of country, have been abused. Many of those harden into a mindset of "If I had to suffer, you have to suffer." and the abuse just keeps rolling on.
Few cultures have made life so miserable for half of humanity as the Islamic ones. Monotheism, patriarchy, and basic male anatomy ensure that when males have the ability to dominate, they will. Only education will change that and education among the the Moslem peoples of the world seems a distant fantasy.
I would offer the following a quasi Koan, "Cherish the people, throw out the dirty water" - in other words, the individuals from the deeply Islamic countries are to be respected - get rid of the polluting religious beliefs that cripple them.
11
I fear Afghan women have continued struggle ahead with no immediate help from the US government. US policy is erratic and those in the world who would seek refuge from abusers cannot depend on the US now. The current administration will negotiate with the Taliban, but not with Iran, won't get involved with the affairs of other countries, but will declare the effective president of Venezuela, characterizes itself as freedom-loving but supports brutal dictators and torture. The contradictions are endless.
One certainty is that the rights and interests of women will in no way factor into peace negotiations. It is a dismal state of affairs. However, I can say that women across the world support Afghan women and I know that many non-governmental organizations will continue the fight behind the scenes. This dark time will end. I just hate to contemplate the suffering that will occur before it does.
27
Whatever befells the women of Afghanistan falls entirely at the feet of the Americans, the Soviets and the British who simply could not suppress their imperial aspirations and leave well enough alone.
Efforts to bring more women into the fold by the United States, an imperialist occupying power, are near guaranteed to generate horrific backlash against the women who were empowered by the very same policies meant to bring them equality.
That, and the fact that the United States has done little to nothing to stem the tide of Saudi oil money funding both the Taliban and the virulant conservative ideology that undergirds the group in Pakistan through a vast education network.
3
Americans, please don't be so smug. While the horrific public and arbitrary punishment faced by Afghani women is not seen here, American women are increasingly the targets of hate crimes by male strangers and 'their loved ones' as described here: https://mobile.twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1089336024424099840
6
There's an easy answer to this: offer U.S. citizenship to all Afghan women.
Why not?
And I would suggest the same for the only country that is more violent in its treatment of women: offer US. citizenship to all Saudi women.
Again, why not?
We will be a better country for it.
Islam will be a better religion for it, as a new modern form of Islam will develop here...'mainstream' Islam, like mainstream Christian churches, and Reform Judaism.
And eventually Afghanistan and KSA will not want to lose their women, and will recognize at least basic human rights for them.
14
Explain to us, again, how Islam is a religion of peace and love. For anyone not Male, not so much. Female slavery, enforced by religious police.
Look away, Pence. Look away.
6
Any Afghani woman who wants to leave should be given asylum here or elsewhere. When there are no women left maybe they'll start appreciating what they've lost.
12
Here is quote from the article:
“When we heard that U.S. troops will leave Afghanistan in 18 months, we girls were asking each other, ‘Now what will become of us?’” Ms. Azarnoosh said. “People already think we are bad girls for dancing. What will happen to us if the Taliban become part of the government?”
Here is my comment:
First of all, Taliban will not be a PART of the Government – they WILL BE the Government.
Secondly, to prefer foreign occupation for the freedom to dance, I ask: to what depths will a human soul degrade itself? As a matter of fact, could it be the case that America introduced “DIRTY DANCING” so that sectors of the Afghan society could debase themselves. It is subversion of the Afghan spirit! This is what occupiers do to make mental-slaves of a people.
1
@Chaudri the peacenik
"Secondly, to prefer foreign occupation for the freedom to dance, I ask: to what depths will a human soul degrade itself? As a matter of fact, could it be the case that America introduced “DIRTY DANCING” so that sectors of the Afghan society could debase themselves. It is subversion of the Afghan spirit! "
Did you even watch a little of the embedded video!? Their dancing is the furthest thing from "dirty dancing." There's no debasement of any kind.
As for what worries these young women it's the fact that they could face violence for having done these highly artistic, dances at all.
7
Women of Afghanistan........don't hold your breath and prepare as best you can. With 45 negotiating, i doubt women will even be mentioned. In his world, you are dispensable and disposable. I hope beyond hope i am wrong, but once we're gone, we will never hear about it in the USA and you will be on your own. In the past, any other president would've made women and children a priority.....that is when our values of our leader's were intact. With our oaf it's winner's and loser's only.....no compromise. That means in the end that everyone is guaranteed to lose.
6
Peace with honor. Peace with human rights intact. Peace in our future.
History picks.................none of the above. The yanks go home and it's back to business as usual.
1
So the Taliban fear their Taliban neighbor-cousins?
Are NYT reporters editors and commentators here aware that Afghan women were first liberated by the former "Communist" government? That was the regime the US changed by bankrolling and arming the radical traditionalist Islam forces that became the Taliban.
12
We should not give any support, monetary or otherwise, to countries that treat 50% of their population as chattel. How is this any different then apartheid or slavery?
13
@Tanya
Not just that, we should also not do any business with them. For instance, Saudi Arabia, we can buy oil elsewhere. And we certainly shouldn't be selling them weapons or calling them our friends.
5
The only answer will be to aid (even covertly) Islamic women’s organizations.
Most of Islam suffers from too much male energy and not enough female input, but that must come from the inside.
Women’s rights are human rights.
5
Negotiations with the Taliban, how ludicrous!They must be erradicated not appeased. Haven’t we learned from the Hitler/Chamberlain farce. We are selling the future of Afghanistan and its people down the river.
1
I find this really interesting because one of the female Muslim students in my human rights class wrote me an essay about the horrors of modern western imperialism and how the American war in Afghanistan had done little to further women’s rights. I told her that if she wanted to make those claims she needed to provide some evidence and references!
I agree that women need to be involved in the American withdrawal negotiations, but I fear that without some form of enforcement mechanism such as sanctions, cutting off any aid, or further military action any concessions made to women won’t be worth the paper they’re written on.
7
A horrendous tragedy, but not one that can be solved by American arms.
4
I doubt very much that most Afghan women are eager for peace with the Taliban. Really, of all the terrible regimes that Afghanistan has had in the last 50 years, the least bad might have been the period of the Soviet rule. (Which the US worked so hard to overthrow)
9
Here is a quote from the article:
“What really bothers me is, what is going to happen to Afghan women and girls?” he said. “Acute misogyny in Afghanistan goes way beyond the Taliban. Without a strong U.S. hand there, it is not looking very good for Afghan women. They can do as they like to them after we leave.””
Here is my comment:
The article shows what American occupation of Afghanistan has done to the Afghan society. Afghanistan was a society governed by consensus; and now each Afghan is fighting against every other Afghan, because America has taught the Afghans the concept of SELF INTEREST, and not the greater good. The cause/reason for this behaviour: American destruction of the basis of Afghan variant of Islamic norms, over 17 years of occupation. Foreign occupiers have shattered the very basis of Afghan Civilization and Society. This might be the ONLY lasting gift of the occupiers.
1
@Chaudri the peacenik
Afghan treatment of women has been horrendous for generations before foreign invasions.
In fact, male treatment of women around the world has always been horrendous.
Originally, Islam protected women from some basic abuses, such as female infanticide. Eventually, it like all other male-empowered religions, enslaved women.
Women are always enslaved and must always fight for every single right. Once they get rights, they then must fight to keep them.
I'm grateful to have been born in the USA when Johnson's War on Poverty helped me get a university education. And the times provided birth control for me to reign over my own life.
Changing men's rule over women is a never-ending fight for every woman on the planet.
11
We abandon Afghans and Afghan women abandon hope. The Taliban Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice must appeal to the "Religious Right" in Trump backers who undoubtedly give Trump a slogan to simplify his simple-minded approach to all things, to believe that this is an admirable group. America should stop offering false hopes to embattled people anywhere. It is the new doctrine of Wally Trump.
When you add ignorance and misogyny to fundamentalist religious beliefs, you get what this article sadly describes. Not that we do not live with the same here in the USA, albeit less harshly, among many religious sects including Christians, Jews and Muslims, among others!
9
Christopher Hitchens wrote “Religion poisons everything.” It is easy to see the truth in that statement. In every society in which Islam dominates its effects are poisonous for human rights in general and women’s rights in particular.
16
This is infuriating, Have World Governments conveniently forgotten the images of burqa-clad women executed at a soccer stadium. If being female in Afghanistan in the near future relegates them back to living in conditions similar to the stone age, then the American War in that country along with their coalition partners was lost in a huge way
8
I may be reading Steve Coll's _Directorate S_ too simply, but it appears that we are where the Turks wanted us to be years ago. They saw the Taliban as the best hope for order and not terrorists. The distinctions were too subtle for the Bushies. If the Taliban do finally take over, this piece reminds us of the human costs of religious extremism. What we should ask now is what efforts we might make with the Taliban to get them to moderate their rigidity. However this ends, Afghanistan will be a horror from a western perspective for the foreseeable future, and everything we have invested to change that will prove to have been a total waste.
5
I have no doubts that Trump will guarantee the safety and rights of women everywhere. Man this glue smells great.
8
Why dont we escort every single female out of the middle East and then see how long those chauvinistic males last! Make it impossible for them to have a female until they realize they cannot exist without them!! Make it impossible for them to have a female until they realize that they need womenwomenand they are not superior to women! They need women and women should be valued the same as them!!!
11
@mhosk. If the Taliban men had to wear burqas for one day, burqas would be outlawed the next day.
8
One possible solution: As the US "exits", give out green cards to any Afghan woman that wants one.
It may seem discriminatory, but do not offer these to the men.
Afghanistan could conceivably end up as the only 100% male country on the planet.
25
@Claude Balloune Great idea. Maybe t-rump can build a really useful wall around that country (after the women have left), and those horrible, barbaric men can kill each other as they slowly starve to death.
13
Make it simple. Arm 100% of the women with advanced weapons and teach them advanced self-protection techniques, pay 100% for women's primary and college education, provide women with top notch FREE Lawyers and shine a BIT BRIGHT PUBLIC LIGHT on ALL middle-eastern men's misogyny world wide! Require that 50% of middle east oil proceeds be given to directly to women ONLY. Long prison terms for any middle eastern man that violates any of these rules.
12
Women should be physically at this negotiating table.
14
At the end of the day any new morality has to be fought for and won from the inside by the citizens of Afghanistan. We should use financial pressure to convince the Afghanistan government to do the right thing but we cannot force the rest of the world to adopt the morality of the modern western world. The US cannot be a permanent occupier of this territory.
6
It is a very serious problem. It results from the cultural and the religious history and heritage of Afghanistan. Given this history, progress is not likely to happen quickly, much as we wish it would.
8
“The Afghan government has assured women many times that women’s rights will not be affected negatively after a peace deal with the Taliban,” This is a joke and anyone who believes the Afghan government or the Taliban is willfully gullible, including the US government. Afghanistan is the worst country to be a woman, according to the 2018 Women, Peace and Security Index https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/03/08/worst-country-woman/406182002/
The writing is on the wall. If the US leaves, it will be even worse for women, if that is possible. Of course, under the trump administration, women's rights do not figure, even at home, so no surprises that women are not included in the peace talks. This administration is a catastrophe for human rights.
13
@Happily Expat Convincing people to change their personal morality doesn’t come at the end of a gun. Did anyone think the US was going to occupy this territory forever?
2
You can never put the genie back in the bottle.
One can put their mothers, wives and sisters behind the veil of ignorance but no one will push their school going daughters behind the dark wall.
6
“Acute misogyny in Afghanistan goes way beyond the Taliban..."
How can a 'rule of law' really overcome cultural and religious biases that have for centuries treated various peoples within that society in abhorrent ways. You can slowly change a culture, but changing the long held religious beliefs of a provokable man with a whip and a gun may be an insurmountable challenge.
If only the women of Afghanistan could band together and act in concert to create a new world order. Unfortunately, I could not imagine any such attempt not resulting in vicious retribution from their male overlords.
33
@Think. Misogyny is also alive and well in the White House. We truly have a mentally challenged and massively ignorant child holding the office of President of the United States. Women, to Neanderthals like him, mean nothing at all. Cave men rule in the Trump Administration. Truly a sad day for this country, the world and civilization in general.
17
Deep down, men know how much more expendable they are. This is the source of all the barriers they place in front of women.
10
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/world/asia/afghan-women-excluded-from-peace-overtures-to-taliban-oxfam-says.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article®ion=Footer.
5 years later :Jan, 2019 " Afghan Women Fear Peace With Taliban... " Anybody paying attention to these women? Any women at the table during recent negations? I doubt it !
7
The solution is clear take all Muslim men and seperate them by a wall. Let the women live in peace on the other side. The men can enjoy their faithfulness to Islam in the company of only other men in the worlds biggest mosque. Walls work especially when Muslim men think they are allowed freedom to make choices over women.
15
American lost in Afghanistan because we never took a moral stand in behalf of millions of Afghan women. America's strategic self-interest in the region was not strong enough for a committed effort. And now, the Afghan women will be left in the hands of misogynist thugs. These are the same people who shot Mahala in the head for advocating education for girls. How many more women will shot or stoned for wanting to think for themselves? How many more women will be killed in honor killings sanctioned by their village elders? America and the World should be ashamed. Afghan women are the new Jews.
16
@GariRae
US backed the faction against pro-Soviet Noor Mohammed Teraki, Hafizullah Amin. One of the main grievances of Mujaheedin was that communists were educating women and causing disruption of social stability.
How easy it is to selectively recall history!
2
The Trump administration cares nothing about women. They appointed Gorsuch and Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court to take away abortion rights from American women and they rip children from immigrant mothers at the boarder.
Why would they care about women in Afghanistan?
14
Wasn’t it the teenage Malala Yousafaze who was shot in the head in Pakistan by the Taliban for advocating for simple education for girls ?
My heart is heavy with pain that Trump cares nothing about . Very sad . The Taliban cannot be trusted I’m afraid.
6
@KarenE
Yes. She then used her fame in calling for the West to leave Afghanistan. She claimed it was the West - not the Taliban - that was standing in the way of rights of Afghan girls.
Cognitive dissonance is an amazing (and saddening) thing.
8
Are there NGOs working on protection and self-defense training for women in Afghanistan? There should be routes out of the country to asylum, or ways to channel support, for those brave women who may become targets of the Taliban.
9
Unlike most people crossing illegally into the US for economic reasons, these women are true refugees from violence. Allow them, and their children under age 14, to emigrate to New York, Massachusetts, California, and other sanctuary states where they will be welcomed. The forward thinking states will provide housing, free schools, free healthcare and language classes.
11
@Robert Williams I agree with one qualification - no male children should be allowed. The age of misogynistic indoctrination is birth in Afghanistan.
13
@Robert Williams
Yes , we will welcome them Robert . Coming from one of those “blue” states , NJ , I’d be proud to help those in need . It’s really a heartwarming feeling . You should try it sometime .
3
The nations with the most Muslims aka Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh have/had female heads of state/government.
While the Taliban has adopted the equivalent of the extremist Sunni Muslim Wahhabi Saudi Arabian" faith "that produced the likes of al Qaeda. ISIS, Osama bin Laden and fifteen of the 9/11/01 hijackers.
7
America's never ending wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are an unquestionable tragedy for the United States, let alone the nations we invaded and occupied. Seventeen years in Afghanistan with nearly 2,400 dead servicemen and over 20,000 wounded. Some estimates place the ultimate financial cost of that war in the trillions of dollars.
My heart goes out to the women of Afghanistan. I would offer asylum to any Afghan woman who wants to emigrate to America. As far as I am concerned, they can come by the planeload. Any who wish to remain I'd give a pistol and 50 rounds and our best wishes. I see no happy endings.
50
I am so grateful I was not born a Muslim woman, destined to live my life buried alive in a black burqa, never feeling the sun on my skin or diving into a cool ocean wave and being beaten mercilessly because some pathetic man fears having a carnal meltdown if he glimpses an ankle.
33
Do you think Trump's trophy wife, Melanoma, will speak up in defense of women around the world?
Of course she won't. She's as clueless and as uncaring as her brain dead husband.
What a miserable bunch of people the Trumps are.
25
@Doremus Jessup Nobody said it better!
5
@Doremus Jessup Well, in all fairness, none of the Presidents' wives so far have done much if anything to stand up for oppressed women.
2
Not true. Both Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama have been tireless advocates for women's rights and women's education around the globe. While I'm unaware of anything Laura Bush has done in this area, it would not surprise me at all if she was also a strong supporter of women's rights.
9
My heart grieves for these women. The Taliban are based on very fundamentalist (by their interpretation) views. It is part of their identity. I am not sure that the Taliban can compromise on their beliefs regarding women and still actually be the Taliban. Thus indeed if left in place with equal political power to the government, Afghan women do seem doomed. The taliban would have every reason to be even more empowered since it would be pretty clear that the USA is not going to get entangled again in this areas- once we are out we aren't coming back. They can essentially act with impunity.
11
35 years of bleeding, 9 months of pregnancy, 15 hours of unbelievably painful labor, and then excruciating delivery; then a year or more of breast feeding and years of raising -
What a thankless, self-aggrandizing, mother-resenting group of male toddlers. Just because they cannot build and produce a human being as women (and apparently and oddly their male deity) can, they make life miserable for those that actually gave them life.
Perhaps they have the gender of their deity wrong - methinks they dost protest too much.
27
Under the peace plan the U.S. should reserve the right to grant asylum to all Afghan women and girls.
That would end the cycle of abuse and violence against women in Afghanistan for good.
19
Why are we negotiating with the Taliban, when our goal should be to exterminate these terrorists. The Taliban is a cadre of religious fanatics that will continue to oppress and murder the women of Afghanistan and will continue to support international terrorism. Moreover, making peace with these monsters, who will never act peacefully, is an affront to the 2,372 U.S. military personnel who have given their lives in the war in Afghanistan. If the U.S. cannot control and/or eliminate the estimated 15,000 Taliban in Afghanistan, then we need to re-evaluate the amount the we spend on our military, that is, we are spending far to much on an ineffective machine. We should continue to use drone warfare to eliminate the Taliban.
12
@Heath We spend far too much on our military, and drones won't destroy the Taliban. Only development will. You have to make socioeconomic conditions good enough that men won't get a chip on their shoulder and turn to violence. That includes assuring the physical safety of Afghans, many of whom support the Taliban because they are the only people who promise law and order. It is a fact that when the US army maintains security for a village, villagers side with the US. As soon as they leave, the villagers side with the Taliban. We need to stay and do development. But sadly, the trump administration doesn't do development much - they have slashed USAID and diplomatic budgets. The future is not bright over there. The Europeans are our only hope in Afghanistan.
1
@Happily Expat "The Europeans are our only hope in Afghanistan."
Why would they want to be in Afghanistan?
Enshrined within the Taliban's basic belief system is the inferiority of women. They don't come to any negotiating table with a concept of rights for women. Any deals with the Taliban need to assume that whatever they may say to obtain what they are after, women will continue to be treated as they have been in recent Afghan history; as slaves and victims of the sort of extreme patriarchy that finds its origins in the Quran upon which the Taliban claim to base their entire society.
18
Where is the UN?
Is a situation of this type not exactly the reason for its very existence?
As neutral peace keepers, would they not command more respect from the Taliban? It would be impossible for even the extremists among them to label a multinational force as "the great Satan!"
14
@vonmisian The UN?
Perhaps we could appeal to its "Commission on the Status of Women" and other UN Human Rights bodies, in which Saudi Arabia is well represented.
3
With this administration, the poor women of Afghanistan have every reason to worry and be fearful. Women, in every way, are never high on the agenda for Dumbo and his appointees. At a minimum, we should grant asylum for any Afghani woman who seeks it, as well as women from any nation who has been beaten, raped, abused, had her children and/or family members murdered for reasons beyond her control. Failing to support women around the world is a moral failure of this nation and those here who do not understand this, should try living in one of these chaotic, repressive, hopeless countries where violence and terror are the norm. See how you like being threatened on a daily basis. See how you like seeing your wives, daughters, mothers, neices, cousins and friends raped and beaten. See how you feel when you yourself experience firsthand such terror. Some of the comments here are shocking in their lack of compassion and callousness. No, we cannot police the world. But, in the past, we could speak w/some moral clarity on the decent and equal treatment of women and minorities and at least we strove for that. Now, we are in the gutter with the rest of the oppressive and repressive regimes, condoning murder (Saudi Arabia, Russia) and torture (Saudi Arabia). Thank you Dumbo Donnie.
16
America rarely cares about the lives American women live, let alone the lives of any other women in the world. The world-wide patriarchy must go!
29
Ladies...RUN! The US will abandon you! Like we did after the defeat of the the USSR. We left Afghanistan like a frat party with no more beer.
Afghanistan women are strong, and deserve our respect for keeping their country together while their men/boy-folk ran off to prove their virility. They kept farms running, when they weren't being shelled. Started cottage industries, educated their children when they had access to materials.
Tenacity and endurance is their legacy. The US should be doing everything we can to protect and nurture Afghanistan's women and girls. If not, it will be a crime.
30
Give me that old time religion, where women will once again be reminded of their place in the pecking order, where MEN determine what they wear, what offices they hold, and where they can go or who they can see. We have a good degree of misogyny here in the states too, only a different religion and somewhat held in check by secular law. For now.
29
All this could equally apply to many Muslim countries. The problem with Islam, is that half of the population is subject to the other half of the population. Until Islam is reformed, women from Saudi Arabia to Somalia, will be treated as little more than chattel and despite pouring trillions into Afghanistan, we did little to change that. The Taliban (formerly known as the Mujahideen and armed and supported by the US during the Soviet war) just waited us out. Now expect a wave of Afghan women refugees.
21
If there is a wave of women willing to leave Afghanistan we should aid them in leaving with their daughters only. I would gladly sponsor them or aid moderate Muslims in this country to help them start a new life.
1
What sort of religion could think it’s right to beat women to a pulp for exposing their feet in public?
All religion is perverse in the 21st century but this is particularly bad. People need to stop believing in fairytales and start looking out for one another. God is not a necessary ingredient to treating people properly and respectfully. Religion does more harm than good.
28
Religion, which may once have originated as a pure form of devotion or practice which opened the heart of, or evolved human beings’ spiritual structure, is in the hands of men wherever men have political or social power. How do we make leaders dismantle a system which favours them?
13
@AJaneG Organized religion was originated by men as a pure method for extracting money from other men, and for controlling women, as well as extracting sexual favours from them.
6
@Andrew
Religion typically is grafted on to whatever cultural traditions preexisted it in an area. This is true whether it is Christmas trees and Easter bunnies (symbols taken from earlier pagan traditions with Christianity grafted on to them), or female genital mutilation in certain countries in north Africa and parts of Indonesia. FGM is not part of Islam -- many Islamic nations, even extreme ones like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, do not practice it. It is a relic of an earlier culture. Likewise, the barbarity and misogyny of Taliban culture is ancient, and religion is used to justify beliefs that existed in the culture long before Islam did. This sort of culture is extremely resistant to change, unfortunately.
5
I do not care whether it is religion, culture, or just some perverse sense of superiority, but any man who hits a woman is not a man, he is lower than a dog.
I agree with Hillary Clinton on almost nothing, but women's equality is one area in which I am in complete agreement. If it were necessary to spend another seventeen years in Afghanistan and lose thousands more, it would be worth it if we left that country with women's equality an established fact.
14
A 17-year war, with hundreds of thousands of deaths, is over a girl's access to education, and a woman's right to dress, travel, and work. What a horrific waste.
10
Have we forgotten? This is the Taliban that blew up ancient Buddhist statues, that imprisoned all women in burqas, that enforced ignorance through outlawing the teaching of science in favor of madrassa (rote religious) teaching, that enforced religious rules that would be considered medieval in Iran, that gave cover to al-Qaeda to plan for 9/11, that still uses suicide bombers and roadside bombs as weapons of choice. The above does not to mention current and major opium farming (under Taliban protection) that destroys hundreds of thousands of (mainly Western) lives.
Yes, our invasion a generation ago was ill considered and emotionally calculated and has been a barely mitigated disaster in money (trillions) spent and future commitments (veteran medical benefits), and death and disability on all sides. But just how long do we think our positive effects (women, education) will last when we leave? Six months, a year? This is predictable. A mass exodus of refugees who can get out, a collapse of progress, a Taliban takeover and a reversion to rule by medieval, tribal forces.
All outcomes are bad, but let us choose the least bad one, not the one that will good for a short time (to some) on a political resume.
A cease fire with the Taliban and exit is capitulation and a complete loss pure and simple.
14
@Shillingfarmer Exactly, never negotiate with a terrorist.
1
@Shillingfarmer
After every war, the US welcomes survivors. Look at the large number of Vietnamese refugees in the USA.
It's a bizarre form of immigration that never ceases to amaze me.
Far from winning any “war on terror”, US involvement has made things worse: for Afghanis, for the region, for the US. It achieved nothing. Another misguided GOP war.
9
Afghani women have a right to be involved in the negotiations. Knowing the precarious position they are in, there should have been conditions to ensure women are represented fully in all stages of the peace process.
13
Afghanistan is a sovereign nation ruled by warring clans that has been repeatedly invaded and has rarely been at peace with itself, most notably Azhir Shah in the '30s. It has never been a country noted for it's forward thinking about women.
Nothing we do will change religious or cultural beliefs, only Afghani citizens can do that. America cannot force another country to behave as we see fit unless we commit to staying and becoming the police force for whatever government we deem fit. We need only look to other attempts at that to see the unintended consequences.
There is truth to the quote "never get involved in a land war in Asia" and American needs to learn that.
32
Sounds like a job for UNESCO. Seems like a good opportunity to offload this "responsibility" to the globalists.
12
@TL Funny you should mention that. The USA no longer contributes to UNESCO. Trump made the USA leave the UN Educational Scientific and Cultural Organization due to alleged anti-Israel bias. I'm not quite sure what they would do in the Afghani mess anyway.
1
As sad as this is, it's just the tip of the iceberg. Women are mistreated all over the world. The entire Islamic world subjugates them. The Catholic church teaches its billion followers that women cannot have leadership roles in its organization. Macho culture pervades most Latin countries. Women are held far behind in business, globally. Even the most enlightened areas haven't achieved true equality. A story like this should motivate all of us to do more.
70
Some of the comments are almost as scary as the Afghan-related article itself, such as ignorant use of the adjective "medieval" and a blame-America mindset and apparent hatred by some toward pro-life folks (of whom I'm one but repelled by the extremists) and evangelicals (of whom I'm also one but "high-church" & loathe mindless Trumpism). Also I happen to be a lifelong Republican who's been mostly abandoned by Party along with Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. Anyone for "no-drama Obama"?
4
So 15 years later, thousands of deaths on all sides, incalculable money and resources, we are about where we were. The US is looking to save face whilst merely dancing around "status quo ante bellum."
10
These men will not change the way women are treated. It is ingrained into their culture. I feel sorry for the females born into it. The taliban will be just as brutal or worse when they gain their power back.
22
@HJ: remember how "ingrained"
witches once were in our culture?
[djt still uses the term "witch hunt"
when he disapproves of stuff btw.]
changes CAN BE brought about
[every]where there is a will ...
while women around the globe are still up against
men very viciously hating to lose their grip on them.
5
The Taliban will never agree to treat women as anything more than property. And they will never allow women to become educated, as the more educated a person is, the more likely they are to insist on being treated like a human being.
On the flip side, how is the US supposed to fix religious fanaticism?
31
@Patty O:
is this really about [religious] fanaticism?
"religion" is just a tool.
gaining power i$ what it'$ all about. alway$.
how to fix unfathomable amounts of greed?
4
This is such a sad conclusion; when peace could mean the end of their rights.
13
@Marc It wouldn't be true peace, just peace for males.
10
@Marc No peace for them!
1
I don’t know how these women can leave, but they need to as it’s going to get much worse. That is clear as day.
36
@Billy Bobby Where will they go? The can migrate to another Muslim country and be oppressed and murdered there. The West with its current nationalistic fervor would not accept them. We are abandoning millions of defenseless Afghan women and giving a terrorist organization legitimacy. We need to continue to exterminate the Taliban.
4
@Billy Bobby sorry but this is a bizarre comment. Where is the entire female population of Afghanistan supposed to go? You might as well say they need to go to the moon.
Why don't you comment on the behaviour of Afghan men and the male-run establishment?
2
@Heath You are correct: extermination is the only permanent solution to the problem of the Taliban. They are so totally and profoundly EVIL, vicious and destructive that exterminating every last one of them is truly the only solution to the terrible and otherwise unsolvable problems they continue to cause.
3
The Taliban position is that women are things, not human beings. Owned by fathers and sold to husbands. Carriers and containers for pregnancy with a 50% change of bearing a human being, a male, and a 50% change of failing by bearing only another container. Unfortunately, such virulent sexism and misogyny is burgeoning in the West also with the phenomenon of Incel and incidents like the execution of 5 women in Florida for apparently the "crime" of being females in a bank. Both the East and the West need to root out these extreme dehumanizing views.
106
@Lauren Warwick Yes, BUT-- I'd say the problems are quite a bit worse in Afghanistan! This is a very lopsided comparison.
4
This whole affair makes me sick to my stomach. Once again, the US made big promises to its allies that it couldn't keep. They didn't have a plan for rebuilding that was grounded in reality; they just imagined that opening up a few schools and putting in some electricity would undo thousands of years of tribalism and religious dogma. They put their faith in contractors who bled them dry, tribal elders and politicians who pocketed their aid dollars by the millions, and generals who would tell any lie to keep the money and troops flowing.
We lost more than 2,000 men and women over there, and the Afghans 20 times that many, not including the civilian casualties in their hundreds of thousands.
And for what? One dead body in Pakistan and a refugee crisis of biblical proportions. Is the Trump administration going to take ANY responsibility for those Afghans who made the mistake of trusting us? Are they going to open the doors to the people who were misled by three successive administrations into believing that there would be a good ending to this story? I doubt it.
And that's what really rankles me. The US should not be allowed to walk away from this, not without taking some responsibility for the brave people who suffered the most and fought the hardest in our "war on terror."
74
These are all good points and I definitely share your concerns regarding the destiny of these women.
To this I would add the observation that the soldiers and money of the US have given some women of Afghanistan some years of relative freedom. These years would not have otherwise happened. Would it have been better for that to never have happened?
My other observation is that this is again blaming the US for not taking care of something in the world. I understand that we have money and a military but why does this all need to be on us?
10
Its a simple answer and as many simple answers are its underlying foundations are mired in complexity. Why Is It on us? Perhaps because of our role in the decent of Afghanistan into chaos and extremism since the Russians invaded many years ago. We didn’t just mishandle it this time, we helped lay the foundation for the rise of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda’s place in it sphere by our actions during and after the Russian Afghanistan war. Then there’s the first Iraqi war and the reaction to our military presence in Saudi Arabia which played a role in the rise of Al-Qaeda in the first place. So why us, because there is an old saying, you broke it you own it. We understood this better at the end of the Second World War. We didn’t break Europe and Asia in the sense of the war being all our fault, we did understand how to handle the aftermath better. We had a chance earlier in Afghanistan to create a better outcome but Jr and Chaney had to have their own Iraqi war and one-up daddy Bush. So why us, because we own a large part of this whether we like it or not. Consequences is a hard taskmaster and I’m afraid is not done with us yet.
14
@AJ Garcia Walk away from this? You have no idea how craven the MEN in Afghanistan are. There are close to 150000 (a wild estimate) military-age MEN sitting in Europe working some flimsy "asylum/welfare" claim while US (and German) soldiers are in their country fighting the Taliban--who supposedly number less than 30000. You think they have any respect for the women in Afghanistan. Any money dumped into this cesspool ends up in banks in Quatar. The US should walk away from this--and Europe should deport, as fast as possible all of the MEN who seem to think the west owes them a living. This has been a scam and swindle since 2015--and everyone knows it. Better to get these MEN back where they belong.
13
Why aren’t women being given a place at the table? Shouldn’t we be making sure that happens?
27
@Debbie "Why aren't women being given a place at the table?"
Most likely because the men on our side of the table don't care about women either.
38
@Patty O
This is the real point, that we do have the right as American participants in the peace process to insist there be women in the talks. The Afghan women have to seize the power to change their situation, we can't do that for them. But we can and should insist they be part of the process.
12
@Debbie
“...making sure that happens?” How do you do that?
2
The Taliban get more attention, but the situation is many supposedly moderate Muslim countries is not very different. Starting from the obligation to wear the veil (which of course some women like, but still it’s not a choice they have).
20
The goal of US foreign policy should not be to force a feminist agenda on third world countries- or ANY countries.
In fact, there is no such thing as human rights- which is an artifice created by elite intellectuals three centuries ago- and should not be a driver of foreign policy.
Within the social contract of a nation, such beliefs might gain traction, but for any nation to force any philosophy upon another nation is at best futile and at worst self-destructive.
4
European nations have exported religions, languages, commerce and laws that still exist in their former colonies. Why would the rule of law (human rigths) be impossible to transmit more than the other abstract concepts previously mentioned?
29
@steve US is not forcing anything. These are Afghan women asking to be included in the talks and have a say in how a post-occupation government treats them.
24
@steve
"a feminist agenda"? What an absolutely ridiculous statement.
I'm confident that most men in the US agree that beating a woman because her feet are visible is a humans rights issue.
38
Taliban is a hostile terrorist organization that took Afghanistan by force. In fact it is the origin of al-Qaeda and ISIS. Negotiating “peace” with them is the US framing a way to get out of this endless fight and losing to terrorists. That is the truth. If the US offers “peace” then all of the women and girls should be entitled to citizenship in the US and EU under actual political asylum. Afghanistan’s government is a weak puppet state that can not outgun Pakistan-Saudi Arabia. The women are doomed unless they can get out.
85
@Change Happens No the Taliban originated with the mujahideen, which the US supported and armed during the war with the Soviet Union. Under your rationale, all the women of Islam should be entitled to US and EU citizenship, because the religion considers women chattel. Over 90% of Muslim women have undergone female genital mutilation in Egypt. From Somalia to Saudi Arabia, women have few if any rights. Even in Dubai, a woman must have a male sponsor, regardless of where they are from or what religion they practice. The only way to change the fate of Islamic women, is to reform Islam and I don't think that will happen soon, because it hasn't happened so far.
10
I am fearful for what will happen to Afghani women and girls if and when the US finally withdraws it's troops, but outside of Afghanistan's government controlled urban areas, life for women and girls probably hasn't changed all that much since we invaded the country some 17 years ago.
23
@DonS Actually conditions have worsened since we first invaded. Women and girls in remote areas did not wear the veil then and they do now.
1
Any negotiated settlement needs to involve the Taliban in some fashion. However, this administration doesn't care about the universal American values and principles of liberty and freedom and doesn't care much for human rights. Not to mention all the American sacrifice in Afghanistan just to return to status quo.
A complete withdrawal of American forces should be a non starter. There is no reason to trust the Taliban and losing our foothold in the region will prove catastrophic.
16
We have spent too much blood and treasure in Afghanistan to risk it turning into a Taliban-run theocracy. Like most Americans, I want to end the war. I want peace. But it must not come at the cost of Democracy for the Afghan people and the women of Afghanistan.
And I'm not sure I trust the administration to guarantee that.
39
@Paul Sullivan
I'm sure I don't trust the Trump administration to assure women's rights anywhere.
5
The women and children will be the losers. Words are cheap and once the Americans are gone, the Taliban will reassert their controls and the country will slide backwards. The Taliban cannot be trusted.
40
@Steve
Neither can the trump administration
27
The article is about the desperate plight of Afghan women. This is a serious issue, not political football
11
Women and girls are half the population. If there is no peace for them, then there is no peace. Period.
289
I fear for these women because no one is going to help them in the final analysis.
61
My heart breaks for Afghan women and girls. Truly more a collection of tribal states than a country, Afghanistan is a medieval, misogynistic society. The minute our troops leave, as we must, the Taliban will do what they have always done to women. Afghan women who have worked along with Westerners to improve girls’ education, medical care, access to work and other freedoms should be granted asylum in the US and other allied nations. Absent that, they will face prison or worse.
114
@J. But aren't most of them Muslims? And wouldn't they then become immigrants? Neither is what the trumpists want.
2
Afghan women have made huge strides since the Taliban regime was toppled in 2001. Now they fear losing their gains, if the Taliban return to their austere rule. As members of the dominant Pashtun ethnic group, which makes up 38% to 42% of Afghanistan’s population, the Taliban could refuse to share power with other groups in this multi-ethnic country.
The West seeks to help. The problem is that educated, progressive women belong mostly to other ethnic minorities, living in urban areas.
The rural Pashtun culture remains largely misogynistic and male-dominated due to deeply-ingrained Islamic values. The Pashtuns are known for their archaic social traditions - oppression of women, lack of education, and crushing poverty - which have all contributed to the Hobbesian nature of life in remote tribal areas.
As the Taliban are eager to deal with the US, perhaps the Americans could press for the inclusion of women’s interests in their negotiations.
In 2015 representatives of the Taliban met with a delegation of female Afghan lawmakers, high-profile government officials and activists in Oslo.
The Taliban explicitly requested and initiated the meeting, and later said they participated specifically to address concerns about their policies.
Shukria Barakzai, the then Afghan ambassador to Norway, who attended the meeting said the Taliban “listened patiently and respected what we were saying, and it was clear that this was not the same Taliban we faced in the 1990s.”
17
@J. von Hettlingen
There is nothing 'cultural' about overpowering women in any and all societies. It's basic strong-muscled men over weak-muscled women. And oh my God, the men quiver in fear when the women become educated!
1
We can never kill our way to peace. All people are the same and have the same needs- a decent home, clean drinking water, healthy food, a good job and a future for themselves and their children. I feel for these forgotten women.Their voices need to be heard.
We have spent trillions on wars that never end. What we are doing isn't working. More of the same isn't the answer.
I traveled through Afghanistan many years ago. I hate to think of what has become of this country after so many years of war. I was shocked by its poverty back then.
Russia wasn't able to win this war and neither are we. Tribal hatred exists. Our work has increased the hatred.
31
So much for human rights. Good job America, mission accomplished. America first ... Or America last?
18
If we are going to leave, perhaps we can allow women and young children to leave with us. Ladies, a far better life awaits you in many other countries.
29
@Sarah
Maybe we can get Europe to take them?
2
@Sarah that isn't a reasonable solution.
5
@Sarah: the women would much rather stay
and build their country - rather than run and
accomplish even less from outside & abroad.
good things take [too much] time.
1
When our Commander-in-Chief believes it appropriate to boast about sexual aggression, what hope is there for Afghan women in the peace (U.S. withdrawal) process? Unfortunately, saddled by centuries of increasing discrimination and prosecution, the prospect of a female voice in the process is nil. This is no longer the Afghanistan of the Silk Road era, only a torn country, riddled with corruption, where external modern influences are unwelcome.
22
@Carveth Law:
"external modern influences unwelcome"?
only at government level. and much so mostly
among men who have so much power to lose.
look at afghanistan in the 1960s, for instance.
4
Oh if the future Afghanistan were to have a Bill of Rights, especially the 1st amendment and the 14th and 15th amendments. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press, Equal Rights to All Citizens. This needs to be baked into all governments to protect minorities and women who in a conservative society are often treated unfairly. Liberty and Justice for All should be non-negotiable.
22
@Tom
And, yet, for all that you list, without the Constitutional Equal Rights Amendment, which women do not have, the women hear still suffer unequal pay, open misogyny, Republicans and Libertarians trying to take away any and all reproductive rights and the rigging of the Supreme Court to take it all further back - not only for women, but for men, too.
This country is a joke when the discussion of "Equal" comes up in other countries.
What are we, 54th? in the world on women's rights?
Look hard, Tom: No one is trying to imitate us anymore!
Of course we can 'deal' with the Taliban - that's how low we have dropped!
2
We have ways of putting pressure on groups so as to encourage fair treatment of women and minorities.
We dont have to be at war with them.
9
@iain mackenzie Nice thought, but I'd like to hear some examples of where the U.S. has stood up for women's rights and been successful at achieving them. We all need to face the fact that when U.S. troops leave Afghanistan the women and girls there are going to face incredible suffering. I don't see Donald Trump doing very much for them. He cares about no one.
28
As much as I sympathize with the Afghan women, we just can not stay indefinitely to protect them. Regardless of whatever peace deal we work out, I believe everyone knows that within a short period of time of us leaving, the Taliban will retake the country, very similarly to when we declared victory in Viet Nam and pulled out. A trillion dollars in weapons, infrastructure and training and rag tag units of Taliban armed with AK's will quickly defeat the Afghan army. There seems to be no fight in the Afghan army. No urgency. No initiative. Maybe when we are gone and the Taliban are coming they will get their butts in gear. My suggestion, arm their women, who will probably be the fiercest warriors of them all, and take the fight to the Taliban. The societal issues of Afghanistan run too deep for any outside country to fix.
36
@FXQ
There will never be much of an Afghan army, because they do not think of themselves as Afghanis, but rather as Pashtuns or whatever tribal/ethnic group they belong to, and then their clan identity. The country is basically feudal. They will fight for their home area, but not for other areas of the country that are held by different ethnicities and clans.
3
Afghan women certainly have all my sympathy. But what is worse for them than misogyny is seeing their husbands, brothers, fathers and sons being killed in this barbaric neocolonial war. Give peace a chance. First end the war and then work on women’s liberation.
9
@Robert Dole That's what they told American women in 1861. Took another 50 years before women received the vote. Nah, I'm not convinced Afghan women will be a priority once the war is declared 'over'.
10
@Robert Dole I think what is actually worse for the women is the fact that they themselves are killed and tortured. Why must people always put the needs of men first?
3
When I worked as a midwife training midwives from Afghanistan right after 9/11, I heard many, many horror stories of women dying in childbirth because midwives were not allowed to go "out at night". Of course, birthing mothers were also "not allowed" to get to a hospital (very rare) or clinic at night either. When I asked these midwives how they responded, they told many tales of deception against the "young men with rifles" who "guarded" the roads. Good heavens.
Once again, male ego trumps women and children's health and welfare. I wonder what men are SO afraid of? I think it was Susan Sontag who said, "Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them."
188
@Ann Davenport It was Margaret Atwood, author of the Handmaid's Tale.
5
@Ann Davenport
Sorry to nitpick, but it was Margaret Atwood who said that, not Sontag.
4
@Ann Davenport
When I periodically worked as a freelance reporter in Afghanistan from 2005-8, I also heard horror stories from men and women who had suffered under Taliban rule. I also witnessed US and other NATO troops overseeing the construction of girls schools in many rural districts. These Western troops also provided security in these districts which allowed girls to move freely outside the home without Taliban harassment.
Was this also due to "male ego?"
5
The Pentagon says war in Afghanistan costs taxpayers $45 billion per year. Repeat $45 billion. Surely getting the parties to talk would be cheaper. I hope that Afghan government officials and important groups representing women will be quickly engaged and part of the peace talks. So much has been lost. A lasting peace has to bring everyone to the table.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/pentagon-says-afghan-war-costs-taxpayers-45-billion-per-year
10
@Ann
The real question is: Who got all that money?
War is profitable for politicians and their friends and relatives. Just like who do you think would get the five billion for the Wall?
We have dropped thousands of tons of bombs and rockets on Afghanistan, and still neither the government Afghans nor the Taliban Afghans support the rights of women. How many more tons of bombs and rockets do you suppose it will take to persuade the Afghans to change their views?
81
@James Ribe: the tons of bombs were not dropped
in tons of efforts to make afghans change their views.
they were mostly dropped for geopolitical
i.e. for rather strategic reasons.
also, at times, to empty bomb stocks and make room
for new state of the art killing equipment?
i remember hamid karsai begging the US to finally "stop!"
using afghanistan as test site for their arsenal of arms.
[i mentioned it above as well:
look at afghanistan in the 1960s, for instance.]
9
@James Ribe Right after 9/11 demonstrators popped up holding signs "Bush bomb Afghanistan NOW".
That`s why the bombing. Wreak vengeance, show strength, hit somebody hard.
Geopolitical reasons, persuasion to democracy and women`s rights in Afghanistan don`t bring votes.
7
@James Ribe
No amount of bombs will change the mindset of Afghanis regarding women.
10
They are right to be scared, I don’t think that the majority of the people will change their mind about the woman rights.
I’ve got friends from Afghanistan, Iran and a lot of other deep Muslim Country and their thought about the women are just a little bit backward. All of them are good people, and step by step, living here in the west (Italy), can change their opinion.
As far as I’m concerned the only thing to do is let the withdraw of the USA troops and start a movement focused on the valorisation of the woman and on the equal consideration of the sex gender.
As a matter of fact bombing and shooting never improve a country, but arts ( in the proper meaning of the term, but also Movie, Music and everything that give a smile) do.
I know that’s can sound weird, but I think that the more advanced organisation, UN, EU and USA should work on that, like a kind of humanitarian intervention.
42
All this could equally apply in Saudi Arabia, it seems. Oh, but they are our allies, right? To think that the protection of women's rights, freedoms and protections even exists in the thinking of the present US regime is ludicrous.
125
@Chuck Burton
Just two days ago, in this very paper:
"She Wanted to Drive, So Saudi Arabia’s Ruler Imprisoned and Tortured Her"
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/26/opinion/sunday/loujain-al-hathloul-saudi.html
Loujain al-Hathloul is still in prison.
6
I hope they get some protection, but they have every reason to believe that this will be a long, difficult, winding road. They’ll likely need to pick their battles very carefully and be lucky to earn any inch they get.
Optimistically, women’s rights are a wedge issue in Afghanistan, so negotiators are working on a cease-fire first. Pessimistically, not even the government will raise the issue later because women receive protection to motivate American support. The Afghan public may largely appear indifferent to or against women’s rights, especially if women cannot safely raise their voices.
Probably, this will come down to power sharing. If it’s China-style, Afghanistan may get Taliban areas with their most medieval interpretations of the Quran, and areas where women have little security and (often nominal) rights.
Then, if they can, the Taliban will bring the rest of the country under control, with or without the constitution. If they run for office, they may control the vote by controlling security.
Considering how Russia and America struggled in Afghanistan, spending a great deal to little lasting effect, it’s not easy to see a road toward lasting support for basic rights in that country.
Likely many that could leave have, but if the Taliban takes power, we may see more desperate refugees. I hope the Muslim ban is down by then, or rights groups master social media for them. They’ll need media attention to get waivers under Trump’s policy, or to find other hosts.
4
“Acute misogyny in Afghanistan goes way beyond the Taliban.”
There you have it in a nutshell. Until the ordinary fathers, sons, husbands, brothers and the religious authorities in general are able to cast off the Dark Ages mindset that leads them to view women as at best chattel, and at worst inherently defective beings in need of constant punishment to correct their “wayward natures,” nothing in this benighted country will improve for anyone.
209
Remembering what happened to Afghan women before when the Russians pulled out, the destruction of schools, the loss of access to jobs, of health care, and so many basic human rights, sad to say the women probably aren't going to be much better off when the the allies leave.
A crime against humanity.
61
Women are thrown under the bus. Even Ghani government is not exactly a champion of women's rights. But winning the war in Afghanistan would take too much. To seperate the Taliban from their supply of troups, weapons and ideology from their Pakistani masters, you would have to seal off the border to Pakistan. This would take a lot of boots on the ground, none of which can be Afghan boots - too incompetent, corrupt and unreliable. A tragedy for Afghan women. Had Reagan not meddled, Afghanistan could be a nice post-soviet dictatorship by now, something like Kasakhstan.
46
Democratisation of Islamic nations failed. Islamisation of democratic nations are not receding. The clash of these 2 societies are inevitable for the middle path is fraught between radical extremists and liberals with no idea of how to deal with the excesses of over indulgent tolerance under the guise of human rights.
9
@aboutface
Oh, please: Give me all the details of exactly what "the excesses of over indulgent tolerance under the guise of human rights" looks like.... exactly.
8
What keeps women confined is not just the men, it is also the women who support traditional, narrow-minded and conservative views. Men that abuse women are cowards who are afraid to lose their power, even in Western countries. It's interesting that the ratio of abusers and women harassers is higher in intellectually underdeveloped countries. Knowledge is power, in both men and women. And even in Western countries women in academia face many obstacles. Unfortunately, a college degree does not guarantee those that graduate are educated. Currently, higher education and k12 are staffed increasingly by those with college degrees who lack an education. Reading skills and critical thinking are in decline with distractions from technology, profit-driven interests, and parental control.
5
“We want the Taliban to accept women’s rights and publish a statement where they guarantee women’s rights,” said Ms. Paykan.
American women would benefit if the Republican party would do the same.
The Taliban mentality isn't only a problem in Afghanistan.
149
@Carson Drew Such an apt comparison: living under Taliban rule and being part of the Republican Party. I'm not a Trumpist, have voted as a Democrat since 1972 but that over the top statement is insulting to Afghani women and moderate Republican women alike.
21
@Ginny: Religious fundamentalists of all kinds have something important in common: misogyny. The GOP is dominated by socially conservative evangelicals who want to turn this country into a theocracy. They are Trump's "base," pandered to by him and feared by all other Republican politicians.
A major focus of today's Republican Party is relentlessly attacking and attempting to de-fund Planned Parenthood. These people are obsessed with obstructing access to birth control through the ACA. The head of their party is a man who bragged on tape about committing sexual assault and getting away with it.
Trump judges women primarily on their looks. He has mocked the wives of political opponents as ugly, and he has made salacious comments about his own daughter. He calls women who disagree with or criticize him "dogs" and "pigs."
Maybe the comparison was unfair. In some respects, the Taliban treat women with more respect than our nation's leading Republican does.
44
@Ginny I don't think it was "moderate" Republican women @Carson Drew was referring to. It was more than likely the Republican women who voted for Trump. Women, people of color, and people who really believe in racial and sexual equality did NOT vote for Trump if they gave any thought to what they were doing.
28
It helps to remember that the U.S. is negotiating with the same group that attacked women and their rights before. Has the Taliban said that it has renounced its earlier position? Not that I know. Afghan women have a right to worry!
98
@dbsweden
Most likely this agreement, if there is to be one, would not even approach what should be addressed when it comes to human rights, for women or any others. My guess its mostly just a shallow appeasement, to where USA 'feels' they can withdraw from the land and have some resolution in it. But the Taliban, just like Islamists, have no intention to honor any agreements. This is within their rights according to their Quran. If its to their advantage to break an agreement, they will do so. So, nothing will change, except more heartache for the women, who suffer the most, and while the World just ignores
41
@dbsweden And American women have a right to worry. Think abortion rights fighting and opposition to planned parenthood in the mid America red states. The question still remains - Is a fertilized egg a person?
Injecting religious beliefs into any discussion of facts immediately voids legitimacy.
9