Since when has an offer of "temporary" relief on "some" immigrants in exchange for billions of dollars for an anachronistic border-wall that few want and most believe won’t work to curb people from entering the country illegally, offered by a man proven to lie on a daily basis and renege on agreements made with others with a degree of regularity, been known as "serious" and "reasonable" negotiating? This from a man who has "stiffed" countless business owners when he claimed bankruptcy no less than three times.
And who assigned McConnell to be the top Trump toadie? He was elected by Kentucky voters—other than myself—most of whom seem unwilling to admit they did so. As a result, he is beholden to his Kentucky constituents, not to the misnomer in the White House. If Congress presents him with bills, it is his job to put them before the so-called president who currently refuses to do the work he should be doing, instead spending most of his time tweeting to his dwindling base, making up sophomoric names for his opponents, trying to distract the public from his machinations, and blaming his mistakes on whoever he can.
It seems we're best-off not impeaching him just yet, but can we possibly impeach McConnell? He hasn’t done anything beneficial for anyone but himself in over a decade. We need to get the government doing something besides wrapping everything in red tape.
Christmas is over. Get to work. Quit wasting the tax-payers' money and do something substantial.
15
Guys,
US Department Of Homeland Security has budget of 40 bln a year, see Wikipedia. The proposed cost of the fence is 3 bln, it is less than 10% of DHS yearly budget. The wall will stand for decades, so its yearly amortization cost should not be over 10% of its construction cost ~ 300 mln a year. So it is less than 1% of DHS budget. Now lets ask whether border should be guarded or not and everybody would say that yes it should be guarded. There is no reason to have borders if they are not guarded.
Now, lets comeback to the wall(fence, trench, barbed wire, etc ... ) it is just another feature in the complex of security measures DHS uses in order to keep border under control. The stupidity of the situation is that Democrats don't want to let Trump succeed in his promises, but the truth is that the fence is not an ultimate solution. It would be better if Obama budgeted that fence as his exit initiative and had eliminated this issue 2 years ago.
From political stability perspective Trump should respect Congress and give up his claims, this is not his job.
From border security perspective it is not an issue, border should be protected and it has walls in multiple areas already, I am just not sure why the President decides the ultimate solution of border protection, but not specialists working in DHS.
President Trump is doing a beautiful job at controlling Pelosi's air traffic.
My son is a Federal law enforcement officer who has reported to work - and shall continue to report to work - without getting paid while the fiddlers in Washington take turns rosining up their bows. As if what has transpired to date has not been bad enough, D.C.'s most despicable elected official, Mitch McConnell, has found his way to the sandbox.
I am a man in his early fifties and often times when I hear people my age and older denigrating this nation's college-age and twenty-something citizens, I remind myself that Mr. Trump is 72, Ms. Pelosi is 78, and Mr. McConnell is 76.
H.L. Mencken once wrote that, "Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage." The longer this sandbox brawl lasts, the truer those words ring,
5
but but but yesterday the NY "Trump has a 9% chance" Times said the Trump plan was "snubbed all around" in a front page headline.
What a joke. Who reads the NYT for Trump news? Seriously. Its just pure liberal propaganda.
4
He is the one who took away the Dreamers policy... he is the one who refuses to sign a budget...
Everything he is offering is stuff he took away to begin with...
In exchange that we pay for something that all the experts agree is wasteful and immoral.
This is STILL the exact definition of extortion.
Giving in now will set a precedence that this is how any president can get things done. Simply hold everything hostage. It flies in the face of congressional power to override a veto. This is not how we're supposed to legislate, and the framers knew it.
Put up a sane budget without the rhetorical bells and whistles... no wall... we don't even need to increase spending on the border... all the issues related to the border are at decades-low marks.
And then let McConnell hide it in his shell when it reaches congress, but at least you did your part.
Agreeing to anything they've offered is the real loser here.
(so far--I'm not saying don't negotiate... I'm saying, there is a difference between negotiation and extortion and it shouldn't take a whole lot of explaining to differentiate the two)
17
Remember Marin Luther King, and his March. Remember the March for Women on inauguration day 2017. This latest fight in Congress and the White House is not about border security or DACA! It is the old guard Republicans freaking out that Americans are massing against the old order once again. The Democrats took the House! Nancy Pelosi is running circles around Donald Trump!
McConnell is trying to break the will of the Democrats in Congress now, not just to make Trump happy, but to show his big donors that he is still in control of Congress and Nancy Pelosi is not!
We know the Republicans don't care about funding the wall, since they unanimously voted to fund border security a few weeks ago without the wall. And Trump was okay with that!
The right wing in Congress and the White House, and Trump's TV audience at Fox news, are freaking out at the new reality of this Democratic resurgence. Bring it on!
20
If Trump is so eager to complicate the shutdown problem with bogus offers to fix things he broke, then offer to fund his stupid wall if he shares his tax returns and agrees to talk with Mueller. Otherwise, take the gun away from Democrats head and negotiate in good faith.
6
I think the problem is that democrats don't realize they are being killed by illegals also.
An illegal named Wilbur Ernesto Martinez-Guzman was arrested today in Nevada for killing 4 people.
7
Republicans are enablers, nothing more, nothing less. I hope they carry the burden of their sins for their entire miserable lives.
6
I applaud Pelosi. Pelosi for president!
13
"If you do not obey my demands I will shut down the government..."
Hostages? Ransom? Extortion? New way to govern? A amendment to the Constitution?
10
“McConnell’s view of shutdowns is when you’re in one, it’s a great opportunity for both sides to get things,” said Scott Jennings, a Republican strategist and former McConnell aide who remains close to him. “And what I think is dumbfounding everyone here is: Why aren’t the Democrats treating it as a situation where they could get something? The president has opened the door for them to get something, so let’s talk.”
Pshaw! Yes, let's talk. release the hostages!
6
PLEASE, NYT, don't make the mistake once again to let the GOP set the agenda of what you talk about and what not in your articles.
Yes, the GOP shuts down the government in order to relaunch talks about immigration reform.
But Democrats refuse to negotiate during a shutdown, so IF you want "balanced" reporting, you should spend at least as much time/space to explaining WHY, what their arguments are, and what the GOP's counterarguments are ABOUT a shutdown itself.
If you only focus on immigration reform, as this article does, you're spreading the GOP's narrative (= free publicity) and as a consequence actively increase the power of their position, compared to that of the Dems, even though it's Dems who just massively won the last elections, and as a consequence deserve "equal time" ....
In the era of fake news, WHAT you decide to focus on as media determines as much whether people will get the truth or not, as how "objective" the reporting about that what you decide to focus on is.
You can't just continue to write about what happens in DC as if you're reporting on a sports match, looking for who's winning and loosing. You HAVE to explain the issues at stake, and clearly and transparently.
And for the Dems, what is at stake is our very democracy, the separation of the 3 branches of government, and the constitutional duty of the Executive to implement existing law, ALSO when a new law project doesn't get through Congress.
Please don't leave this up to the comment section!
12
I would counter Dreamers get green card and $2.2B for a wall.
7
Apparently the very real suffering of millions means less to Mr. McConnell (the villain here) than the imaginary problem at the southern border
The imaginary problem has let in 30 million illegal aliens into the U.S.
There are Mexican Barrios all over the U.S.
Yes, a wall stops things. That's why it's called a wall.
Of course, walls can be penetrated if you try hard enough.
All safes can be broken into. That doesn't mean you don't put your jewelry in the safe.
2
I've always thought that true evil is: selfishness, lying, deceit, lack of empathy, lack of compassion, bigotry, inequality, spite, meanness, usury, injustice, unfairness, cheating, etc, etc, etc.
Now, if the GOP was a religion, what would it consider to be true evils? What things would they put at the top of the list?
Taxing the rich. Being poor. Immigrants. Being Black. Not being white. Admitting you're wrong. The Government, in so far as it doesn't stamp out their ideas of these "evils". Helping people. (Oh, that's a big one! As in Paul Ryan's much professed idea that "Helping people, actually hurts them!" Unless, of course, you're a filthy rich donor - In which case, no amount of help is enough!). Caring about someone outside the GOP tribe. Etc, etc, etc.
In short, the modern GOP is what I would consider not only morally bankrupt, but it actually embraces and condones a lot of things that I would consider real evils.
And, at least in public, they always paint it the way, e.g. "Racism isn't really a bad thing. It's just someone else's opinion. No better or worse than any other."
I mean what EXACTLY does Trump mean when he says he wants to "Make America Great Again"? I think we all know the answer to that. And it's making sure that America is a country run by, and for, a bunch of spoiled rich white brats who never once faced any consequences for their actions. People for whom a "real problem" is finding "good help" to keep the mansion clean.
That's what Trump means.
10
Excerpt from Dr. King's The Three Evils of Society:
"The hour is dark
Evil comes forth in the guise of good
It is a time of doubletalk, when men in high places
Have a high blood pressure of deceptive rhetoric
And an anemia of concrete performance..."
We know where the 'guise of good' Republicans stand. Some Democrats/liberals have wavered the last fifty years under unrelenting exposure to the infection of economic inequality. U.S. democracy is sick. We need a legitimate cure in order for society to become healthy and remain healthy. The quarantine of our continent by the oceans isn't going to protect us much longer.
Donald Trump is not the doctor. Donald Trump is not qualified to be an orderly. Orderlies take their jobs seriously and realize the importance of cleanliness and disinfection, of attention to detail.
I'm not a young woman. I've seen administrations come and go. I recall how our involvement in Vietnam divided us. I have never seen anything like this. I'm sorry we live in such interesting times. It could have been different. It should have been different. "The hour is dark."
20
Both sides feel that whoever wins this will win the 2020 election. So as usual we sit and suffer while the power mongers play their game on our dime, with no regards for us. I prefer Trump on this however, because he is trying to accomplish something, and he is the President. Shame on Pelosi, a bitter person. Schumer used to be a good man, but now is only a cheap political pundit with no soul any longer. They both operate with hubris, which by definition invites retribution.
8
@rich williams
ONLY the Democrats are defending the implementation of existing law today. Only they defend NEVER EVER starting to use border patrol agents' paychecks as bargaining chips to obtain a new, and highly partisan law project in Congress.
So ANY patriot, whether you support a wall as new law project or reject it, should support them here.
Democrats unanimously voted for the bipartisan appropriations bill in the Senate in December (= by definition a bill that funds the implementation of existing law, NOT new laws, for the next year). Pelosi passed the exact same bill in the House.
Trump in December promised to sign it into law, as is his constitutional duty.
No one has EVER the right to all of a sudden decide to attach a NEW, and highly partisan law project (such as a law, or Medicare for All, or repealing Obamacare, or free college tuition, etc.) to an appropriations bill, as that makes it de facto impossible for Congress to pass it.
Yet that is what the GOP is doing today.
You cannot possibly call yourself a patriot, and then support the GOP of turning border patrol agents' paychecks into bargaining chips.
NOT shutting down the government is a president's first job.
Now that he refused to do so, Democrats indeed deserve to massively win the elections in 2020, so that they can pass a bill that from now on criminalizes government shutdowns, just like in most other countries.
15
It’s going to take compromise to reopen the government.
The Republicans are offering something.
The Democrats: nothing.
Get together and reopen the government. Real people are hurting for 0.1% of the budget.
8
It's this simple.
If the Dems accept any deal for the wall, Trump will continue to shut down the government every single time he wants something. We all know he will.
For this reason alone, the Dems will never give him a wall.
21
I fear the Democrats are letting Trump run the media coverage of the shutdown. They need to do something dramatic. Such as: every Democratic member of Congress should donate a portion or all of their next paycheck to support charities for the poor folks Trump is holding hostage. The longer this goes on, the more people are going to blame the Dems as well as Trump
11
The congress can pass a bill even if the president does not sign. These statements from the senate are all lies about what can be done - the president does not need to a sign a bill if it has enough support in the congress.
9
We don’t read your tweets Mr. Trump and haven’t for months even years. So Don’t waste your time writing them. Just open the government so 800,000 ’Americans can eat. We are not interested in your offers only That ONE. OPEN the government! You shut it down and now you OPEN it. Your wall is meaningless! Meaningless, unless you OPEN the government FIRST!
22
The prevailing opinion is Donald Trump cannot be trusted and the Democrats won't entertain any negotiations regarding his proposed Wall until the government shutdown is ended. This is wrongheaded and dangerous.
Pelosi can either mimic Trump's petulance and engage him in a Clint Eastwood stare-down that leaves the country in a perpetual lockdown; or, present a counter proposal that allows Trump some room to avoid an obvious defeat.
I'm hoping that Ms. Pelosi is shrewd enough to realize that it's all about Trump’s super inflated ego, and if she's sincere in ending this shut-down, she’ll stow her political baggage in some dark closet and message her opponent that she’s open for business.
Otherwise, she should stop masquerading that she's really concerned about people who aren’t getting their paychecks.
6
@Michael
With all respect, you don't seem to get it.
The Executive branch of government has the constitutional duty to implement already existing law.
It can only do so when Congress passes a bipartisan (you need 60 votes in the Senate) appropriation bill, which funds the implementation of ALREADY existing law (= concretely: the contracts already signed with border patrol agents, Coast Guards, contractors etc.) for the next year.
That bill had to pass and be signed into law in December.
It passed the GOP Senate with a 100-0 majority, once the President had promised to sign it into law.
Then Ann Coulter started tweeting, and the President decided to flip-flop and now refuse it. Then the GOP House refused to allow a vote on it too.
Thanks to the fact that Pelosi won the House, however, now that bipartisan appropriations bill did pass in the House too.
So now McConnell has to allow a vote on the final bill (= implementing EXISTING law, NOT new law projects, by definition and as has always been the case), and then Trump can sign it, or veto it. If he vetoes it, McConnell has to allow a vote on it again, so that the Senate can override the veto and make sure that border patrol agents get paid on time.
McConnell, however, took the totally unprecedented decision to NOT allow a vote on it, even though that effectively shuts down the government - something that in most countries is simply illegal, because of the damage it does to the country.
(1/2)
9
@Ana Luisa
Like I said: These unpaid govt. workers are nothing more than pawns.
Honestly, can we just stop all this posturing? I loathe trump and all he stands for and do not support his latest proposal, but this business of "boxing in" those with a different point of view and just positioning for the best possible messaging is tiresome on either side, especially when people are being harmed. No one wants trump to declare a "win" on this but there is a compromise out there. No one loses with a reasonable compromise.
6
@ds
So you support the idea that border patrol agents no longer get paid, nor government contractors implementing already existing law? From now on, you believe that it's a good idea that compromise on these things, contrary to what happens in ANY other Western country (for obvious reasons, because HOW could you obtain a stable government if each time a president looses the midterm elections, no existing law is implemented anymore)?
Do you realize that once you start supporting this kind of - in other countries criminal - practice, Trump won't stop here?
What will be next?
Privatizing Medicare? Defunding Planned Parenthood? Even though the GOP lost the elections and as a consequence no longer has the votes to pass their campaign promises, you support the idea that they no longer pay border patrol agents until the Democrats flip-flop and vote for what they reject anyhow ... ?
Do you realize that this de facto eliminates Congress?
Refusing to do your constitutional job to implement already existing law when you loose the elections is NOT a "reasonable" thing to do AT ALL. It is CRIMINAL, in most countries.
And the only way to make sure that Trump and the GOP don't continue to weaken our borders by no longer paying TSA agents etc., is to show them that NO compromise is possible during a shutdown, you see ... ?
7
Ask Will Hurd. Don’t ruin our ecosystem in Texas. The Feds are already confiscating South Texas lands. Of course, Trump is a pro at evicting on time payers.
8
I would counter: Green cards for Dreamers and $4.16 B for a wall.
4
This administration has completely forgotten that they are servants of American people.
All those dirty games played by Trump and his loyalists are just to keep them afloat in the chaos that THEIR incompetence has created.
Eventually they don't care about the everyday ordeal 800,000 government workers are going through. They really don't.
4
It's a common international rule that any kind of ransom should never be paid even if the hostage is to be killed, simply to prevent repetition. This government shutdown must be its last.
8
You DONT negotiate with terrorists. Period. The GOP's ransom demands are getting out of hand. McConnell needs to be censured for abuse of power and refusal to do his job. People need to make noise. Trying to appeal to these sociopath by talking about how poor and homeless people are suffering isnt gonna cut it. They dont care. if they cared this country wouldnt be where it is now.
14
Junior members of my team in my fed research lab are looking for other jobs, and many have found them already. I broke the law to give them references.
My lab is decimated, so consequently I'm moving up my retirement. I'm done. 7 shutdowns, 6 years of next-to-nothing raises and constantly being spat upon by Reflublicans are plenty, thanks.
15
What is most disturbing about this entire situation is that most Americans do not believe that the President of the United States is acting on behalf of the American people, that he took an oath to serve, but instead is putting many American in harms way, to protect a job he wants to keep, but does not want to do responsibly or serve the will of the people. Time and time again, he has went back on prior agreements and has repeatedly shown his unwillingness to compromise. That this shutdown has gone on so long, provides glaring evidence, that he has little empathy or appreciation of the people who hold these federal jobs that are serving our country.
16
We have a President that it totally out of touch with how everyday America lives. I think this is shameful. The people that are his “base” (a portion of them Government workers and contractors) must be feeling betrayed. Then I watched Fox News and discovered that the twist and spin placed on the FACTS in this case. None of them read the Times (as we do). None of them get the TRUTH.
5
"“If he opens up the government, we’ll discuss whatever he offers, but hostage taking should not work,” Senator Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader, told reporters in New York on Sunday, adding, “It’s very hard to negotiate when a gun is held to your head.”"
This is precisely the point. He is holding hostages. With a divided congress, he knows he can't get his way unless he holds hostages as leverage. This is a quantum step up from Trump withholding $$ from contractors, creditors, and many others - BUT, it's the same tactic.
18
President Trump’s base now wants shutdown to defund Planned Parenthood.
What needs to happen first is to hold steadfastly to the principle that extortion is not negotiation. Shutdown was started by the Oresident and he must end it.
Democrats need to start running ads that clearly and repeatedly show it as it is where the President claimed full responsibility for starting the fray.
10
To put this in perspective, suppose Obama had agreed to keep the government running & then responded to pressure from his base to insist on 50 state Medicaid expansion for ObamaCare. Who thinks the GOP would have accepted any compromise that included that?
7
Incomplete perspective: Would Obama say Mexico will pay for the ACA before?
1
Kevin McCarthy should no better than to say Trump’s offer was reasonable. It isn’t and he knows it.
5
Trump is very used to demanding that people work and then not paying them. It’s considerably more distasteful for the rest of the country.
Trump has agreed to “deals” on this issue twice in the last few weeks — and then reneged. If we can reopen government with the agreement that we’ll discuss the fate of Dreamers later, then we can do the same for the cost-ineffective Wall.
6
Dems can counter with green cards for all Dreamers, TPS extension for five years, and $2 billion for fencing, drones, officers, surveillance, but no wall. Trump's offer is like the boy on trial for murder of his parents asking for concessions from the Court because he is an orphan.
3
Nancy Pelosi’s claim that walls are “immoral” is silly and disingenuous.
If walls are inherently immoral, then why not argue to get rid of existing border walls?
And if existing walls are not immoral, then why are expanded ones immoral?
And if walls are immoral, then why does she have them around her estate?
She is painting herself into a public relations corner with this argument.
10
@John It's a poor choice of words. Better to say that Trump's attempted extortion and abandonment of his duty are immoral.
4
@John...Pelosi does not have a wall around her estate. She has an elongated structural sculpture. There are no existing border walls, especially in California. Those "things" are vertically mounted Viet Nam landing strip pads repurposed to dissipate Santa Ana winds. Admittedly, Pelosi's claim that walls are "immoral" is silly and disingenuous. But, remember, she is a progressive. Silly and disingenuous define progressives.
3
Uhh.....not really.
3
Trump is holding America hostage for a vanity wall. No thanks.
10
Very simple. Have Mexico pay for the wall and all is good.
9
Trump listens Coulter. Trump listens Limbaugh. Trump listens to Hannity. Trump listens to Putin. Does this guy have any substance, or is he all "sound and fury signifying nothing?"
This the Right's idea of a strong leader. Sad.
9
On the face of it, there is no compromise possible here. It is anethema to the Dems to fund the wall Trump has promised to his supporters. Reagan called for Gorbachev to tear down the wall, in a cheer for American values. Given popularity polls, the results from the midterms and polls on who owns this mastadon of a problem, it will have to be Trump who gives in. It will be hard if not impossible to save face though. He can’t insult his way out of this one. I guess he can keep promising though. He should cut his losses and move on: try to put on a modicum of positive spin on it.
2
Nice post Stuart
1
Why does the Republicans have to do anything?
They have President Anne Coulter to do that.
4
It’s mind-blowing that the stable genius still does not realize that every time he has an out from this shutdown, Coulter demolishes it.
With a single tweet.
It’s almost as if Coulter is turning Trump’s base—who is now feeling the pinch and starting to place the blame on the president—against him.
Tick tock.
10
To "corner" the Democrats, as the dead metaphor in the title suggests, you would have to have, of course, walls. Walls that the Democrats rightly shouldn't allow. The term for what McConnell is doing might be better chosen from "deceive," "extort," "deflect," "frustrate," "deny," "embarrass," "mock," etc. And since most of America doesn't want the wall, and sides with the democrats here, then McConnell is doing this not just to Democrats, but to most Americans. McConnell is the most passive-aggressive politician we have ever seen, is he not?
11
This is how democracy works? Who wants it, not even an advanced modern wealthy nation can handle it. What a mess.
9
Shame on the Republican party and McConnell in particular. I see no effort to talk with the Dems to work a solution. Pelosi is firm, rightly so, on the fact that she won't be blackmailed by the shutdown and won't discuss anything (at least publically) until the government reopens. But she and McConnell could certainly agree privately to a bunch of measures she would agree to once the government is reopened. Mitch seems disinterested. Trump is too inexperienced to successfully do a political negotiation where all parties get something. McConnell knows how to do so as do Pelosi and Schumer. Without a solution that starts in congress, the child in the White House will continue his tantrum.
11
Dems should take away the existing wall then offer to replace it with a 3 year temporary wall.
17
This has really reduced to permanent protection, a path to citizenship, for DACA and TPS populations in exchange for $5.7B for permanent fencing. So trade “like for like.” Either Trump offers a permanent solution, which some in his base will decry as “amnesty,” and gets his permanent funding, or he offers a 3-year respite, and gets a wall built out of flimsy material which will come apart in about 3 years. Of course that is sarcasm, but I want to emphasize that a compromise requires both sides to lose something, a true compromise is an agreement where neither side is completely happy.
6
What's to negotiate? Trump said Mexico will pay for his wall.
Democrats are correct to demand the government be re-opened before beginning budget negotiations becuase Trump's word is worthless. He's changed his direction too often to accept what he says today for being what he'll do tomorrow.
Trading DACA legislation for a few billion for "border security" seems a fair trade off. Schumer should get McConnell to agree to bipartisan legislation with a floor debate and vote in the Senate first, with that bill passed on to the House for ratification. Once DACA legislation is in place, then give Trump the budget to sign inclusive of border security (e.g. enhanced technology measures, more personnel, etc.).
Sadly McConnell and Trump have proven themselves too devious to be trusted with a handshake deal. For example, Susan Collins and Maine never received financial aide and/or assistance from McConnell in exchange for her vote on various bills.
4
Imagine, as an active duty person in the United States Coast Guard, that your Commander-in-Chief intentionally continues to withhold your paycheck, despite two nationally televised opportunities to state that he would immediately re-open the government on behalf of the Coast Guard, and all other remarkable, patriotic federal employees. Would not doing this be considered a dereliction of duty by anyone else in the Armed Services?
11
Are we ever going to have a serious conversation about the 25th Amendment as applies to Donald Trump?
The man has proven, over and over again, that he is incapable of being President because he's mentally unfit and simply incompetent in administering his responsibilities as President?
And, while we're at it, let's have a conversation about the off the rails, unhinged, circus clown, Rudy Giuliani.
Just a thought.
13
The first sentence of the article is distasteful, in my view. How is rejecting something synonymous to "attacking"?
Also, I'm not a fan of Trump, yet I see Pelosi as a hindrance to securing the border and getting those Americans furloughed paid while working or back to work with pay as a problem too.
When listening to her, Pelosi strikes me as a liar and desiring the limelight too. My respect for the Rs/Ds is dwindling, but my faith in God is increasing.
7
@GF - Given your post, I'd say your faith in the Fairy Godmother is right on...
3
@GF
So you adopt the typical GOP/FN narrative, and apparently have never even tried to fact-check it.
Here's what I don't understand: how can you claim to care about border security and then never even start to seriously inform yourself ... ?
5
@Ana Luisa
A wall (barrier) is needed on the southern border as proposed by our current and past presidents.
4
In this country, we DON'T not pay people for the work they do. GOP you should be ashamed of yourselves, each and every politician, each and every supporter. We simply DON"T not pay people for they work they do.
Trump found NOT paying to be a fine strategy, stiffing his contractors, not paying his debts. Now the Grand Old Party wants to introduce these practices into our government.
Open up the government NOW. Pay people for the work they do NOW.
12
We are at an historic moment: the death throes of one of our major political parties. It's like watching a chicken with its head (the Trump presidency) cut off, still strutting around but with no direction. It's only a matter of time....
8
What do we call people who take hostages to change political policies? We call them terrorists, don't we? And what is the U.S. policy regarding terrorists? The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists - foreign OR domestic.
Republicans: Open the government.
Democrats: Stand strong or they'll shut down the government every time the wind changes direction.
11
The Republican Party is not qualified to run the government alone. Our country needs the leadership of the Democratic Party right now. Pinning them down is not the answer!
Trump's attitude of distaste toward poor and miserable people everywhere, whether in Mexico or Africa, Chicago or Florida, disqualifies him as President. The Democrats are trying to save our democracy.
If we cave into this man's whims, and the wishes of his little base of followers, then America will become a country just like those Trump hates so much. In Mexico a few days ago a hundred people were burned alive when they tried to tap illegally into a gasoline pipeline, because their basic needs compelled them to take insane risks. With our government shutdown, poor people in America will soon start missing food aid, shelter aid, that they were legally granted. Why should we be surprised if desparate Americans begin to take crazy risks. Trump is destroying our democracy and we are all suffering for it.
I have come to believe that our country somehow elected a mentally confused thug for President. But I am totally shocked that McConnell is not willing to override him to get our country's government fully open today. Trump calls TSA workers patriots for coming to work without getting paid. I will call McConnell a patriot when he gets our government open and functioning with veto overrides.
4
Hold fast Dems! Do not negotiate with terrorists. This isn't our problem...it's Trump's problem. Be loud and consistent. Repeat the border security measures you approve of, repeat that the wall is a waste of money, unethical, and an environmental disaster. REPEAT AND REPEAT AGAIN!
11
The Democrats should not allow Trump and McConnell to turn this into a shutdown shakedown.
7
kevin mccarthy: “trump has put forward a serious and reasonable offer to reform parts of our broken immigration system and reopen government,” ---- hey kevin, “serious and reasonable” have never been and can never be used to describe donald trump. he’s inherently untrustworthy. his track record proves that. and u know it! if you’re serious about opening the govt, then set in motion to override his veto, then back congressional impeachment proceedings and removal of trump from office. that’s if you’re serious and responsible.
7
@gordonlee
Exactly.
What the GOP is saying is that they find it "REASONABLE" to refuse to implement already existing law and to no longer pay border patrol agents, just because they lost an election and as a consequence don't have the votes anymore to pass highly partisan new law projects anymore.
That is not "reasonable", that is CRIMINAL and ILLEGAL in most countries.
That it isn't in the US is only because until now, American leaders had the moral character to never even START thinking of using border patrol agents' paychecks as bargaining chips.
It's totally irresponsible governance. Or actually, NO governance at all.
4
The democrat obsession of open borders at all costs is causing great harm to the least among us. But the crazed hate Trump democrats and their willing accomplices in the lap dog, report first, check facts later media, are locked in. They have calculated the cost. Open borders means replenishing the ranks of the permanent underclass, all future loyal democrats who will be dependent on cradle to grave hand outs, welfare, food stamps and the like. The party of Santa Claus could not give a wit about the rest of us. They only seek to consolidate their power with a new influx of uneducated masses. Trump will eventually win. He always does. He will not budge. He has warned Pelosi to "Be careful... " The unitary Executive is holding pocket Aces. The next play is coming. Stay tuned.
7
@Steve The 2018 midterm elections were an overwhelming victory for Democrats, gaining over 40 seats in the House. Before that, a majority of Americans voted for a Democratic president; Trump is president but he won the electoral college, not the popular vote. Young people in America lean heavily toward the Democratic party. So the Democrats would not by lying and manipulating the American people to save a dying party -- but perhaps the Republicans are.
5
Trump's a willing supplicant to Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh. The only way to picture Trump going forward is as a man on his knees, forehead to the ground, slavishly begging for someone to love him.
8
The Democrats will take the country down if that is what it will take for them to reclaim power. Their hatred of all things Trump far exceeds their love of country -- they will never ever compromise as long as Trump is in office. As they are unwilling to govern they should be ignored. And come 2020 set out to pasture.
We need a new party -- one beholden to Americans. Time for a change.
6
In business Trump routinely stiffed his contractors, borrowed money which he could never repay,and when desperate declared bankruptcy.He has not changed.The taxpayers are being stiffed to pay for a vanity project, he is asking for money to add to our debt and any day now the stock market will realize that we have to pay higher rates on our bonds which are not rated triple A.He not only embarrasses us with his inept behavior, he is about to raid the treasury for tax relief for the wealthy and money for walls and who can guess what else!Our creditors are not going to want to finance our debt!
7
The GOP does not understand the majority of Americans believe the wall is a very stupid idea. You can go under, over and around a wall. Remember the chants at Trump rallies? Mexico will pay! Moreover, the wall is antithetical to American values. The old adage, build bridges, not walls is entirely appropriate today.
The entire wall concept will fade when Mueller's report is released. It will be devastating to Trump and his supporters and will be the catalyst for Trump's removal.
4
Are we tired of winning yet?
3
I'd suggest:
1. Full funding of the wall at $5.7B, AND
2. Path to citizenship for ALL DREAMERs (not just the 'registered' ones), AND
3. Reunite all separated families, AND
4. No more lifting of Temporary Protected Status, AND
5. Path to citizenship for all people in the US, AND
6. Full budget for 12 or 24 months (no more CRs).
2
Just wondering whether the First Lady, who jetted south to Florida recently, has done anything of a charitable nature to help alleviate the mounting economic suffering and emotional stress of unpaid federal workers. Some donations in kind for local food pantries, morale-boosting visits to federal facilities in the Mar-a-Lago area, meals provided to the unpaid U.S.Coast Guard unit that has been dutifully guarding the waters off the estate? Anything at all?
7
If this Wall is so important to Trump and the Republicans, why did they not get it funded when they had the chance to do so, before Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats took control of the House? Why is this of such importance now and not then?
12
My sentiments exactly!
1
Any legislation McConnell brings up in the Senate will have to meet the approval of Speaker Pelosi ... she holds all the trump cards. And republicans know first is open the government and second is no wall. It doesn’t matter how must butter and jelly they use, if the wall is also in there it will be rejected.
The point republicans refuse to acknowledge is the public wants the government open and those 800,000 federal employees, and hundreds of thousands of federal contract workers and independent suppliers of goods for government services to be back at work and getting paid. They’re not interested in the Ego Wall. In fact, the Ego Wall is why they were made to suffer financially, so they’re not going to demand Speaker Pelosi accept the wall in exchange for them getting back to work because if she does capitulate President Fearless Leader will do it again and they will be back in the same hole with nothing to show for their efforts.
5
The current situation is unacceptable. The government needs to create and pass legislation to prevent a shutdown from happening ever again.
7
@RAC
Such legislation will never come up for a vote in the Senate or be signed into law as long as the GOP controls the Senate or the WH.
Only Democrats oppose shutdowns (which is precisely why the GOP decided to shut down the government in the first place ... because IF they would care as much about the WH's constitutional duty to implement already existing law, they would not have tried to use border patrol agents' paychecks as bargaining chips at all).
So this shutdown is just one more, MASSIVE reason for EVERY patriot out there to vote for Democrats next time, as only Democrats have the moral character and value system needed to guarantee a well-functioning government, and WHAT's the point of paying taxes if we can't get border patrol agents in return ... ?
6
It speaks volumes that the Republicans strategy seems to center on pinning the blame for the shutdown on the Democrats. Opinion poles are clear in what Americans want and don't want. There is no evidence whatsoever that Republicans respect the opinions of the American people or wish to solve the problem or care about the millions they are harming.
Democrats are right to insist that to solve the problem there must first be joint discussions about all aspects of the problem. They are also right that the manner in which Trump wants to execute his strategy amounts to extortion of the American people as many say and is unacceptable.
There is no equivalence between the positions. In that the Republicans controlled all the institutions of government for two years and did not pass funding for the wall clearly demonstrates that, in their hearts, they know Trump is wrong. To blame it on the Democrats now reveals the Republicans to be politicians without any principles other than re-election. It is "machine politics" that would have made Tweed and Tammany Hall proud.
18
The 800,000 number is wrong - that is just the federal employees impacted. There are 4-5 times that number of federal contractors out of work now. This is directly impacting many millions directly, not including all those who rely on federal programs that have been put on hold. Stop repeating 800,000 as if that’s the only impact.
9
@Josh Nankivel
Exactly.
Not only can the GOP not possibly claim that they truly care about strong borders if for a month now they unilaterally refuse to sign border patrol agents' paychecks into law.
They clearly can't claim truly caring about private sector companies either, because THOSE are the companies that can now no longer pay their own bills, as the federal government under Trump's "leadership" just decided to not pay for already delivered services and products either.
And that's precisely why in most countries, deliberately deciding to no longer implement already existing law is simply illegal and criminal - no matter what the reason/excuse might be.
In the US, until now criminalizing such acts hasn't been necessary, as its leaders have always had the moral character to not inflict this on your own country.
But now we have Trump and McConnell who decided to consider Ann Coulter to be their commander-in-chief...
The only solution is:
1. For Democrats to include a new bill into their anti-corruption agenda, bill that makes shutdowns illegal here too.
2. In the meanwhile, refuse ANY negotiations during a shutdown, so that the GOP understands that as soon as they decide to attach a highly partisan, new law project to an appropriations bill (= bill that by definition funds the implementation of already existing bills, NOT new bills, for the next year), they will have turned that new law project into a TOXIC issue, that will NEVER EVER be signed into law.
2
This isn't a negotiation, it's simply a hostage crisis.
Sen. Schumer and Rep. Pelosi are holding not only 800K government workers, but also 800K DACA recipients hostage.
What is payment to release the hostages?
Open borders.
6
@John
FYI: Democrats already voted for the bipartisan appropriations bill that passed the Senate 100-0 in December, remember? And they already passed that same bill immediately upon taking over the House too.
An appropriations bill is BY DEFINITION a bill that funds the implementation of already existing law, never NEW law projects.
Governments remain open when Congress passes an appropriations bill, and then the president has to sign it into law.
The ONLY thing lacking today is the GOP signing it into law. Democrats did ALL they can do to pass an appropriations bill.
And by the way, not signing it into law, as Trump is doing for a month already now, starting when the GOP still fully controlled DC, means no longer paying border patrol agents, so LITERALLY opening the borders, you see?
So either the GOP narrative that Democrats are "open borders" is right, but then WHY did they open the borders in the hope that Democrats would hate this so much more than Republicans that in parallel they'd vote for no matter what that they campaigned against, and after massively winning the elections ... ?
In other words, IF you believe they are "open borders", the whole GOP strategy doesn't make any sense.
OR they care about border security, and then THAT i why they refuse to negotiate as long as Trump doesn't sign the bipartisan appropriations law and instead decides to no longer pay border patrol agents, in order to teach the GOP that IF they do this, they'll obtain nothing at all
2
"Today we celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. for standing up for the self-evident truth Americans hold so dear, that no matter what the color of our skin or the place of our birth, we are all created equal by God."
Well, not quite true for what Trump and Ann and Rush and Hannity rant about.
Even if we leave their approach to people of non-white color in the US aside, illegal Poles and Russians and Asians and ... as long as they are Christian and believe in OUR morals and OUR culture ... seem to be better than anyone seeking refuge from Honduras or Guatemala or other countries that indeed are entitled to do so under our current laws, which, by the way, the GOP controlled government couldn't "fix" in two years.
As Justice Holmes said, "Hard cases make bad law."
This is a hard, very hard situation for federal employees. Unfortunately, trump is playing god with their livelihoods and lives, holding them hostage. But if the Dems give in in this difficult instance, it will set a horrible precedent, and this will be trump's modus operandi for the remainder of his term in office. The nation cannot it.
5
@Publius
Last sentence above should conclude " ... cannot stand it."
2
“If he opens up the government, we’ll discuss whatever he offers, but hostage taking should not work,” Senator Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader, told reporters in New York on Sunday, adding, “It’s very hard to negotiate when a gun is held to your head.”
That about sums it up. Republicans don't seem to mind using human beings as pawns.
I've voted for more Republican presidents than Democrat presidents in my lifetime. I vow to never again vote for a Republican, either locally or nationally.
31
Here is my message to the leadership of the Democratic Party, its Senators and Congressional Men and Women: DO NOT, repeat DO NOT think to appease our Quisling president and the active fifth column of hopeless wimps (aka the Republican legislators) that enable his obnoxious, ludicrous presidency which is actively destroying our democracy and devaluing our nation’s true nature. Appeasement and capitulation to the absurd demands of this fool and pretender of a president will be of absolutely no use and will only greatly encourage him to continue turning our country into a dictatorship. Worse, if you give in you will split the Democratic Party and rightfully be seen as yet another of his enablers. Go to the mat on this issue, hold your ground and the middle and let the voters decide who truly cares about our country and them individually and who doesn’t. If the voters accurately see though our Quisling president’s charade and determine that the Republican Party is supporting a total loser at the costly expense of our middle class, let the Republican Party be divided and not return from the wilderness until they talk and act like they care about our nation and its citizens which currently they seem not to care one fig about.
33
Seriously??? Cornering the Democrats should be the last issue on anyone's mind. Rather than scheming about where to point fingers, how about Republicans (and Democrats) forget the stupidity of funding a $5.7B wall that will likely make little difference and focus on getting the victims in this game - the government workers - back to work. If Trump and Republicans want this wall so badly, let him fund it out of their own stingy pockets. I will not be satisfied until I see these scoundrels taking the perp walk of shame.
10
how do you know the Border Barrier will make little differences. The Border Patrol Agents, who are the real experts says that it will. The non experts says that it won't.
so share your expert source.
4
Never mind that Trump guy. What does President Coulter say?
12
Individual-1 had a deal with the last, repub congress, too bad senior WH advisor, Ann Coulter, gave it the kiss of death. Individual-1 does not get a mulligan on this issue for which he has complete ownership.
15
The callousness of the GOP is reflected in their "offer". Maybe Trump can fish a bubblegum wrapper, a Canadian nickel, and some lint out of his pocket for the next "breakthrough" in negotiations.
8
President Trump said on national television that he would not reopen the government until he gets billions for his wall. Translation: "I will continue to devastate people's lives and our economy, until you give me money." Translation: "I will kill these people if you don't hand over the ransom." Hostage negotiating? Of course, or he would have negotiated in person instead of on live television.
The Republicans had both the House and the Senate at the time they presented POTUS will the Bill. Trump said he would sign it, then didn't. He refused to sign the Republicans' Bill. Trump and the Republicans started this mess. Since the Dems were sworn in this year, in control of the House, they have passed, with Republican votes, a Bill to open most of the Government Departments. Yet Senate Majority Leader McConnell won't allow the vote - and instead go on national TV to not even negotiate.
Mitch and Trump have the power to open the Government - and can immediately open any Department not part of Homeland Security. Billionaire POTUS and the GOP are killing people and businesses.
GOP needs to stop blaming and stop hurting people for the sake of their relationships with Coulter, Putin, or the ballot box.
14
Two pieces of advice come to mind when talking about Trump's demands.
1 Never ever give in to terrorists hostage taking demands.
2 Never ever give into a toddlers tempo tantrum!
Both will result in the continuance of their bad behavior.
Now is the time for Trump to call an end to this shutdown. Then all you followers who really want this wall should encourage the administration to sell govt. bonds so y'all can fund it exactly the way you want and the rest of us won't be burdened with this monument to futility.
17
"Why aren’t the Democrats treating it as a situation where they could get something?" asks a Republican.
Because a wall to racism regardless of cost is not negotiable along with the lies Mexico would pay. There's also no guarantee Trump will keep his word on the dreamers and TPS. Trump lies constantly about Democrats favoring "open borders" when they favor intelligent border surveillance measures.
Democrats already have a reasonable request to fund the government and talk wall and border security later. No, border security isn't a "crisis". Not compared to gun deaths, infrastructure, the deficit, etc. Talks on immigration, dreamers, and TPS persons should not be rushed because they're complex. The wall isn't in that it's simply ineffective, and racist.
11
@SeekingAnswers
Central America is not a race.
3
Apparently the very real suffering of millions means less to Mr. McConnell (the villain here) than the imaginary problem at the southern border, or craven submission to DJT, or fear of “the base”, Fox News, or whatever. Oh yes .. those who suffer are poor, or non-white, or work in the public or non-profit sector, so their pain doesn’t count (Oops, left out a few non Hispanic whites... collateral damage.)
In America a single man - the Senate Majority leader, has more power than a hundred million citizens who want their government open tomorrow and want fact-based policy.
16
Public Wall Funding Vs Public Functioning Government? Duh!
I’m no genius, but I rather have a flat tire than a broken engine.
Hope enough Federal Workers can acquire enough fuel to start their ‘private’ engines on January 25th or a whole lot of public riders will be stuck too!
7
I don't understand why the Dems aren't hammering away about the facts of the Donald and the Republican party. Didn't the Republicans have complete control of the swamp for 2 years? Why wasn't the "wall" funding passed under their watch? For that matter why wasn't the "Obama Care disaster" and Immigration reform fixed under their watch?
I guess I should be thankful that at least they passed the new tax bill which made the top 1% even more wealthy and killed middle income people like myself who can no longer write off our federal and state taxes. I really won't worry about it since my life expectancy has been significantly shortened by the roll back of the environmental laws and regulations.
18
The worst thing the Democrats did was to reelect Pelosi as Speaker. It was one thing to tell Trump to postpone the State of the Union address. They should bam that forever. It's a waste of time. One side sits there with sullen expressions and the other side cheers support. The Supreme Court comes there in their robes wondering why they ever agreed be part of it. But then Pelosi decides she will just leave town for a while at our expense instead of working to solve this problem. It is as though she doesn't care if people are out of work. Is this a photo of the next two years. The new Democrats in congress were sent there to bring Ballance and at the same time throw out some of the old guard who felt they were anointed not elected. Trumps offer was legitimate. Reduce the wall to where it might be helpful and beef up security in other ways. He also throws in a deal with the Dreamers. Pelosi and Schumer have set their position as "Not one Penny." They are not working for the people but to exert power. For them it is not about balance. In the past the Republicans always caved. But Trump isn't part of that past and apparently is gaining support in his party. A report today said that many of the new Democrats weren't interested in threats of impeachment and other senseless confrontation. They want to get down to the business of the people. That doesn't seem to be the purpose for Pelosi and Schumer. They are all about power.
7
@Ron
With all respect, you don't get it.
What the GOP is doing today is totally unprecedented.
The Executive branch of government, by definition, has to implement already existing law.
An appropriation bill is, by definition, a bill that funds that implementation for the next year. It does NOT fund new law projects.
Why not?
Because a country needs implementation of existing law throughout the year, of course. You cannot just pay border patrol agents for a couple of months and then, when Congress can't agree on a specific new law project, all of a sudden no longer pay them.
In that case nobody would ever even accept to BE a border patrol agent, you see?
So now that the GOP refuses to sign the bipartisan appropriations bill that passed the Senate with 100 votes in December, and then the House too, into law, they are actively destroying the credibility of the federal government as employee, including for all our border patrol agents, Coast Guards, TSA agents, and the private sector contractors who work for it.
In most other countries, doing so is ILLEGAL - for obvious reasons. No patriot can ever support this kind of behavior.
So this is no longer about the wall or immigration AT ALL, you see?
Whether you are for or against the wall, you should at least support the Democrats' decision to NEVER negotiate during a shutdown, because only when the GOP sees that they won't obtain anything because of a shutdown, will they no longer try to do this in the future.
1
in this morning's NYT article 'In Business and Governing, Trump seeks Victory in Chaos' it becomes obvious why we should not cave to Trump's manipulations. Chaos and blackmail, Trump's way of doing things can not become our way of governing. Through out his career he has made contracts and promises breaking everyone of them and declares victory when he has hurt others. He has gone to court not to seek justice, but merely to stiff those who would seek justice knowing that litigation would often be so expensive that they would walk away.
Now he has brought these Mafia like tactics into the very center of our government and if we let them stand we will become nothing more than a country without law or justice.
He now has the power to inflict pain across the country and giving in to him will only validate extortionist tactics. His base may love this, but it only reveals them as the sadists they seem to be.
31
I agree the article you reference is a must, if unsurprising, read.
Additionally, DJT's biological father may no longer be around to get him out of financial jams, but he now has a few other rich daddies both here and abroad on whom he can call when he needs bailing out.
I guess I'm missing the part about leadership for the benefit of the entire citizenry and constitutional responsibility to the United States.
2
Just a thought of why some people think trump is right to somehow secure borders is to only look at the teacher strike in Los Angeles. There are approximately 700000 students 10% are Asian 10% 10% are white and native born and 80% are Hispanic. The majority of the 80% are either children of immigrants that are here illegally are by themselves here illegically. It cost approximately $15000 per student in Los Angeles to educate Person If we had a been enforcing our borders for the last 10 years I think you couldn't conservatively estimate that about 300000 students per year would have to be educated and the burden placed on to taxpayers there would be plenty of money for all the things the school Unin needed including raises supplies Nurses and librarians. This is what open borders bring financial run to our country
14
@jdavid: What an ugly and racist diatribe. “I have mine, now you brown skinned people go away, because I am NOT sharing!” Maybe you should move to Sweden or Norway, where most everyone has blonde hair and blue eyes. If they will have you.
I know of no one who wants “open borders”, we just want the system fixed and administered in a humane way. By the way, we, with the exception of Native Americans, are ALL descended from immigrants, my friend. I wonder where yours came from. Aren’t you glad America accepted YOUR immigrant forebears?
1
The point is to fix the problem, not build a useless monument. Dems have been trying to fix our broken immigration system since Bush 1, but intransigent republicans won’t give an inch on demands thanks to newt Gingrich.
1
@Jdavid
Conservatives will use any excuse to keep taxes low and government services underfunded - the debt, the trickle down theory, welfare queens, immigrants, whatever. The fact is that immigrant families contribute more to the economy than they use in government services, and their children will be paying back the costs of their education after they enter the workforce, just like your children. They - and the rest of us - would be part of an even healthier economy if wages were higher. And we know who's fighting minimum wage increases, unionization, and legalization of immigrants.
Sen. Schumer and Speaker Pelosi should not strike a deal until they secure a lot more concessions from the President. What Trump is offering is a gosh darn joke: he was the one who sought to end DACA and protections for those under TPS. Takes a lot chutzpah to ask for concessions for problems you created.
It’s not even clear if Trump will keep his end of the deal, what with Ann Coulter and others attacking him from the right. We’ve all seen how he reacts when attacked from the right: he buckles and capitulates immediately.
14
There should be an “adopt a government employee” program. They will eventually get paid for the time they’re working now. So there should be a way for people who have the means to pay the salary of the government workers until the shutdown ends and then those people get paid back. Who do we talk to about this?
11
@Kerry B
Consult your nearest faith community? My local Quaker meeting has a aid fund for members and attenders facing hardship -- and is seeking to expand that fund for people furloughed -- or worse, forced to work without pay.
Other faith communities may be doing this. Or could.
1
All government departments should be opened. Then, the negotiations can start.
President Trump who was "proud" to be responsible for government shutdown should be the one to act first.
15
For two years, Trump's Party, the GOP, when they had the House and the Senate, didn't help him get his wall but he didn't close the Government down. Why? If he closed the Government, it would show to the American people that even his own Party doesn't want the wall. But as soon as the Democrats take over the House Trump closes the Government. Now he can blame the Dems.
15
@Barb the Lib
Since the mid-1960s, Democrats have relished the concept of open door immigration to the 3rd world no education, no skilled. Well, we now have 100+ million, with most parked on welfare and the American people staring at that national and financial disaster in every state, city, small town in the country.
3
Chuck and Nancy have offices with corners...so the mean "Ted Knight" might think he can corner them. On the other hand, Trump's oval office has no corners, a metaphor for the power of the Presidency.
Why does it seem like the day the Mueller Report is leaked is the day the shutdown will end?
1
The President wasn't willing to open the government and then negotiate the wall, he wanted a permanent solution. Democrats feel the same way about DACA; a 3-year agreement is just kicking the can down the road. It is so terrible that a President of the United States caused this mess because he listens to too much right-wing radio and tv. It's cost billions, harmed people, and put lives at risk. Every time we think he can't get worse, he does.
15
Why does one party need to “corner” the other? They should to be working together for the good of the country. The Republicans are only painting themselves into a corner.
12
Is the fight is about 0.15% of the Federal Budget ?
NO
It is about the 2020 election, with both parties ignoring the needs of average Americans, in order to position themselves to win.
9
@Joe. I’m not saying Democratic politicians CAN’T be as power-hungry as Republican ones, but this fight is about not giving in to hostage takers.
12
@Jordan, So you agree that the Dems do not care about the 800,000 Federal employees. It is about winning the election.
5
Trump tried to pull DACA and TSP coverage from immigrants and the federal courts stopped him. All Trump is "offering" is less than the status quo, which he must think Democrats and the public are stupid enough to buy as a "solution" to Trump's lies and self-inflicted wounds in shutting down the givernment for the THIRD time in 2 years.
The "Wall" was not an issue before Druggie Rush and The Mad Stork Coulter smeared Trump for agreeing to the plan which got 100 votes in the US Senate, and now which McConnell will not allow a vote to end the shutdown.
Speaker Pelosi and Minority Leader Shumer have the moral high ground, the politically correct position and all the cards while Trump merely acts as a petulant toddler with learning and behavioral problems. But, Trump and his merry band of pro-Putin, pro-KKK, pro-Nazi and anti-FBI Republicans will whine and try to confuse as many as possible to try to make the public say " a pox on both their houses" when the entire issue is Trump, McConnell and the Republicans' fault.
Grow up and govern, Republicans! I can't wait until 2020.
14
Anyone who disagrees with Trump rgarding building the wall look up Wilbur Ernesto Martinez-Guzman.
6
Let’s deal with some facts here, instead of your fixation on ONE MAN. Yes, he was a bad actor, but I could search for less than one minute and come up with numerous names of Caucasian criminals of every sort. Research shows that immigrants generally commit crimes at a rate that is far lower than people that were born here. Get over it.
2
@Don
Look up William Hurd, the only GOP rep left on the border. He doesn't support Trump's wall -- because it won't work and is a waste of money. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/01/20/will-hurd-border-crisis/2632906002/
The wall is a Trump vanity real estate project -- like his Atlantic City casino.
2
Conservatives: Border control totally works!! It stops crimes!!
Also conservatives: Gun control totally doesn’t work!! It doesn’t stop any crimes!!
What Would Martin Do?
5
It does not take a genius to figure out why Sen. Mitch McConnell responds so timidly towards Mr. Trump's asinine demands. He must know that his behavior could destroy his Republican party for at least a generation. Still Mitch is sheepishly following every mindless fiat that comes from the White House.
The simple explanation is that Mr. Trump has Mitch by the short and curlies. He has to follow Trump's each and every command, else he will be putting the position of his wife, Elaine Chao, as Secretary of Transportation in jeopardy.
I wonder if controlling Mitch McConnell via his wife's "job security" was Mr. Trump's or someone else's master plan. But, one has to admit, it has been a clever - and so far effective - one.
13
Two years to the date (Jan 21) until we no longer have Trump and hopefully will have a Democratic president (or at least a decent Republican centrist)!!!
12
@Dolly. AND Pence. Just because he’s trying to keep quiet right now, doesn’t mean that he isn’t just as polarizing as Trump, and inextricably linked with him.
As a Democrat, I would even consider voting for a more moderate Republican for President (i.e., not Trump or Pence), depending on which Democrat runs. The most important thing is getting Trump and Pence out of office, and getting an emotionally mature adult in. Preferably someone that demonstrates that they can speak for the most Americans by winning the popular vote.
3
Sad that Mitch McConnell is planning to step up as Trump's new Fixer. He's savvy enough to know this is a childish offer on border security. Will the Republican party please stop wasting Americans' time and get on with governing?
8
on the contrary, GOP's tactics just go to show how pressured the republicans are. keeping standing the righteous ground, dems. trump and his GOP lackeys are about to crack.
10
Fully funded border wall for the last 20 years tax returns. Done.
7
Mueller has those returns and the House will soon. Why should we pay for them?
8
For some terrible people, it's just impossible to say something nice about them!
What comes around will go around!
2
I don't know how, but the Dems are going to cave. At the end of the day, there will only be word salads and sangria, with women on the march.
4
The Dems will cave only in your dreams. We are tired of being Mr Nice Guy to the minority of American voters.
2
So if the Dems "cave" would that mean that they are putting the 800000 fed workers before their own political interests?
isn't that what you want?
1
When Mexico pays upfront, I will support his wall.
9
Trump is a brilliant man who will destroy Nancy Pelosi.
5
I agree with all the other comments on here that point that temporary protection on a program that Trump himself ended and is being fought in the court system is not any kind of an offer that the Democrats should consider. I also agree with everybody who notes that we need to fix our broken immigration system. But I cannot suffer the idiots who think that building a wall and keeping people out of our country is the solution. I want to hear from the economists on the facts. And if what I believe to be true is true, then I suggest Amnesty to all who qualify and a Sponsorship program to move people into local economies where their labor is wanted and needed.
8
Once again a mess he made will be made to look plausible by the GOP. Though he lies everyone wants us to believe he is going to keep his word and let him have his way. Only gullible fools would sign on for this. Let the republicans go along. That’s been their reply all this administration. They are the “gullible. ...”
4
If republicans want there to be a GOP, they need to dump Trump,
8
When negotiations reach an impasse and the parties stop talking directly to each other as seems to be the case here, professional mediators are often called in. High time that was done. Trump's latest offer to temporarily restore protections for Dreamers that he himself took away last year is indeed a non-starter. On the other hand, even border security experts say that some amount of barrier is needed along with other measures. Meet part way. Something less than $5.7B and more than $1 worth of barrier is needed.
4
Dreamers, Federal workers, and taxpayers, all reduced to pawns.
12
The people voted Mr. Trump into office with him saying “We need to build a wall and that he would”... So, the people have spoken! Let the wall be built Democrats and stop playing these games... The government has wasted money on less productive projects in the past... Please let the maddness stop Democrats! I would like the system to protect the citizens of this country and not let in just anyone... The tantrums need to stop from both sides and Democrats just ask for something also in exchange for “The Wall”...
8
@John Henderson Forgot about 2018, have you? The people voted and said, "stuff your wall". Also, remember that McConnell refused to consider a Supreme Court nominee until "the people spoke" in 2016, so we should wait until 2020 to see their opinion on the wall.
9
To ask for one of the stupidest ideas of the century, you now want the democrats to come up with a similar idea.
Wow that is from being bad to going insane.
That is progress?
2
@John Henderson Bravo John....if the Vatican has a wall...why cant we......BUILD THE WALL!!! sends a message that if you want to enter into the USA....try it LEGALLY !!.
3
As usual, McConnell's only concern is with politics and how his party will fare. I'm so exhausted by the depravity of the GOP, the pathological scorched-earth politics it engages in, the disingenuousness, the one rule for themselves and another for everyone else. The sheer depravity of the Republican Party reached its zenith when it nominated and made Donald Trump the president of the United States. Depravity seems to float to the top fo the right wing in America now. How did that party get that way? Gingrich/DeLay/Atwater, while dumbing down the American public and succeeding with enough Americans to make stupid viable. That's how.
14
Trump’s proposal is the ransom note. The GOP is the delivery boy.
10
Why have the democrats not demanded verifiable evidence that The Wall will do what Trump says_. Why do they not offer verifiable evidence that it will not_
2
They have offered evidence using theDHS numbers that show the majority of illegals do not cross the southern border. The majority enter the US at our airports with legal visas. The visas expire but they do not leave. Trump never mentions that, has no plan.
Re. Drugs, the Border Patrol says that most of them come through legal entry points. Only one car in five is checked. Better technology used by more border agents could address that issue.
9
@EKB Just take a look at the Israeli wall....works fairly well in keeping out Palestinians....
3
i am not sure it is a comparable situation. Palestinians are not trying toenter Israel as refugees or as immigrants.
@DP
I think the Speaker and the Minority Leader are doing a great job dealing with the hostage taker/traitor. I have just a few modest suggestions to support the hostages themselves, and their clients in the general citizenry. Democrats should do the following at once: 1. Pass a bill to pay escalating bonuses to those being stiffed by the King of Debt. The longer they are unpaid, the higher the bonus. I am thinking exponential. 2. Commission Act Blue or a credit union or another NGO to organize a no-interest loan fund for the hostages. Present your $0.00 pay stub and sign a note, and get an advance. Hire an experienced community banker to work out the defails and prevent scams. 3. Set up a similar fund for recipients of aid getting stiffed by Mitch and Donnie. Let's give people some help with food stamps and rent and whatever else they are not getting right now. They may not be hostages, but they are victims of this cruel administration that cannot and will not administer. 4. Address similar needs with practical solutions to ease people's pain. 5. Dems sponsor rallies with hot bands in every city having concentrations of stiffed federal workers and citizens in need. 10 million people in the streets. This is the American Way.
8
It's bad policy to negotiate with kidnappers and terrorists.
13
That is easy to say until it is your daughter who might be killed...
4
In the spirit of "Getting to Yes" (the now infamous book by William Ury and Roger Fisher), for both sides to claim "victory" -- without getting whacked by their respective bases -- they have to get and give up something politically huge. Something that is truly a big, big deal; a belief that the trade was worth it.
So here would be the BEST political deal for both sides and strongly worth considering by us all:
Democrats give Trump what he wants: the full $5.6 billion for border security, including a Wall.
Trump (and Senate GOP) give Democrats what they had wanted all along: to put Obama's nominee, Merrick Garland, on the Supreme Court.
To make this work, Senate Republicans would hold, and not hold up, confirmation hearings of Judge Garland this Spring and bring without delay the nomination to a floor vote. Upon the vacancy of the next Justice, Judge Garland would be sworn in, assuming he was confirmed. And, upon confirmation, the House would then subsequently appropriate funds for the Wall.
Trump cannot make a deal that does not include the Wall. So Democrats should make Trump choose between his Wall vs. his next Supreme Court nominee.
This would be, in line with the Art of the Deal, an historic compromise.
9
@jdbland - that sounds like a good deal. If you can get Judge RBG to resign, and start on it next week.
1
McConnell, please step forward. We know you are there. Governance is not a game. It is necessary for it to be a considered, responsible, thoughtful task driven by reasonable solutions. Americans should not be held in abeyance while our Congress does not act. For fear of trump's reactions? Have we not seen and heard a lengthy repertoire of these? Get to the task at hand. Get to the floor and start up this engine.
4
If there's one thing this president has shown it's that his word is not to be trusted. So Pelosi was right to reject his offer.
Both the president and the GOP do not have the best interest of this country in their hearts or their minds, so what is it that they are after.
10
Why should we listen and obey a person who was installed by Putin? Are we all Russians now?
It's clear that giving Trump 5.7 billion will bankrupt the middle class, which I'm sure is what Putin wants, a bankrupt, impoverished middle class in the United States (more money into the Russian and US oligarchs' pockets).
11
Rather than trying to corner Democrats, maybe the Republicans should try governing. Isn't that what they were elected to do?
8
All the Democrats have to do is stick by their position that government is re-opened first, then negotiate border security. Entertaining any form of deal comprises this perfectly rational position and hands Trump a throughly undeserved win.
10
@Andrew Kelly....too risky....negotiation should include all options AT THE SAME TIME....this business of 'next' is fraught with unexpected consequences....make the entire deal at the same time.
3
@Andrew, when President Trump asked Nancy if she would have the discussion within 30 days after the Government is reopened, she said no.
So, President Trump is taking Nancy at her word.
3
As a furloughed Federal worker, I fully support Speaker Pelosi's strength and resistance to DJT's self-delusion. It is imperative that the Dems do not back down in this fight!
The shutdown is a callous, self-wounding attempt of the Executive Branch to wrest control of the authorization and appropriations power of Congress.
15
@Matt
Thank you, Matt!
2
The big question: Will Mitch McConnell seek approval for his
proposals from Rush Limbaugh and Anne Coulter? At this point, consider the context: Trump was ready to sign a bill without wall funding until political gadflies and extremists, Rush Limbaugh and Anne Coulter expressed their disapproval. The president changed his mind and reversed his position because he wanted legislation that would fulfill his political promise of a concrete wall that he had pitched to his red-hatted devotees. Never mind that Limbaugh and Coulter are both political mercenaries who earn their living by making outrageous claims on radio and book sales, the president of the United States was in their thrall. Trump was willing to shut down the government and jeopardize the livelihoods of 800,000 federal employees just to fulfill a shaky political promise. In the ongoing negotiations, this must not be forgotten. Trump's demand amounts to extortion and his water boy, Mitch McConnell has played along. Democrats must not cave at this point. Republicans need to stop the game playing and get serious about legislation to end the impasse. If Trump were sincere about a desire to bring the conflict to an end, he would stop talking to TV cameras and talk directly with the Democrats.
8
McConnell sees his job as doing what his party's President wants and nothing more. If the Framers of the Constitution wanted this they wouldn't have made three distinct branches of government. McConnell thinks he's being practical; he's really just being spineless.
5
This is a difference of opinion not an emergency where a response is to shut the government down and cause widespread suffering just to get your way.
I was disappointed to see Democrats arguing the merits of what the president is offering. Shutting down the government isn't a bargaining tool. Especially if his argument is that it is for safety. A wall is not going to make us more safe. And there is not a big danger down there anyway. Shutting down the government itself makes us less safe.
Is the president planning to shut the government down for every bill he wants passed? His wall has no facts to justify being built. Even the price tag is misleading.
This is a childish move that most Republican lawmakers are supporting too. They share the blame for this too in a big way.
4
@Jeffrey ...I was born and raised in California...I have seen the Vatican Wall, Berlin Wall and The Palestinian and Israeli Wall/Fence.....WALLS WORK to varying degrees....it will make it much much hard to illegally get into "my" country. You say there is NO big danger down there anyway....Well we have needed a wall for the last 40 years and I fear NOT putting up a wall will encourage real serious issues in the future...Better to build that wall than regret it later....BUILD the WALL !
4
@DP
If it is needed so badly -- and is the only workable solution -- then why didn't the GOP Congress enact the legislation for the wall when they had the votes? Oh, and what does the $5.7 pay for of the total cost? Why are there still active lawsuits in Texas over eminent domain dating back to 2006? Why doesn't William Hurd support it? Why did he say the idea of a wall is a "third-century solution to a 21st-century problem." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/01/20/will-hurd-border-crisis/2632906002/
1
@DP End the shutdown! Free the hostages!
1
Instead of going for something, Pelosi goes for nothing. Should she win all that can be said is that she got the government back up and open, which she helped to shut down and saved the American people $5.7 billion. Now that's a real piece of legislative handiwork, especially for a veteran lawmaker of 31 years. The Democrats have no control of the narrative coming out of Washington, all they can muster is obstruct and oppose; not worthy of self proclaimed intellectuals and stalwarts of the common man. Apparently this is the best that a fractured party with no platform can muster. A disgrace, really it is.
6
As usual, the Republicans subvert democracy: gerrymandering, stripping powers of incoming Democratic governors, disenfranchising lower income voters.
Now they want to shut down the government, until the Democrats give in rather than debate a bill civilly. This is tyranny. Why is this acceptable to Republicans?
8
Just seeing the photo of Trump beneath the George Washington portrait made me think of the saying that “the apple doesn’t roll far from the tree.” Except in this case, the presidential apple rolled out of the orchard and was struck by a truck.
2
Will no one rid us of this troublesome majority leader?
9
Democrats who are supposedly compassionate and caring play politics and spew their hatred for Trump while people are being killed by individuals like Wilbur Ernesto Martinez-Guzman.
6
@Don Which is why we need to build a wall...it may be NOT totally 100 % effective...BUT ITS A START !
4
Don’s been regurgitating that name all day as a failed talking point but for some reason never mentions the names Robert Bowers, Dylann Roof, James Fields or Timothy McVeigh. I wonder why?
I feel bad for the people not getting paid and/or furloughed because this grifter got over. What person who's ever had to work for a living would destroy the people who probably voted him into office. He cares nothing about them or anybody else who doesn't put money in his pocket.
3
I have never, ever, heard Mr. Trump acknowledge that he has done anything other than great things. I have heard him denigrate many other men and women, but he apparently has been a choir boy all his life. How can this be possible? It's not!
We all know, thanks to television and other media, that Donald has sexually harassed many, many women all of his adult life. We also know that he has treated many of his employees very badly, often paying them less than he should have. And he, now proudly the commander in chief of all of our armed forces, refused to serve in those armed forces when he was told to do so during the war in Vietnam, stating that he was physically unable to do so because of a bone spur in his leg. He recently forced tens of thousands of government workers to work without pay while he still gets his regular salary and stipend for food, housing and transportation. Finally, at a time in our history when we need immigrants, especially young, healthy ones, he does all he can to keep them out of our country.
To say nothing of being a pathological liar!!
5
What will Mitch then do when Pelosi counters his bill with her alternative that has everything on it except Trump's political wall money?
Open the government Mitch and then negotiate without putting a gun to 800,000 federal workers heads. Put the House bills to a vote in the Senate or continue to enable our infant president and pray you are not backing a horse who is about to be found guilty of crimes against the USA with Russia and other corrupt actions, such as his fake charity.
7
I guess you’d think the Democrats could at least mention to everyone that Trump’s offer was for TEMPORARY relief for the dreamers. Pound on that point! Or if the Democrats want to be polite, then go ahead let the republicans walk all over you.
4
Once the Democrats get the government reopened they will claim victory and never discuss mending the southern border again. Perhaps having illegal immigrants come in is advantageous to them in the long run. Their children will become citizens and likely Democrats or perhaps this growing block of illegals will make it harder for future presidents to deal with and the Democrats will insist on citizenship for them. Good for the Democrats, but a bad deal for Americans, and as we know the perilous journey through Mexico is not good for the illegals.
5
@James
1. Democrats will never discuss meding the southern border again -> Agree !!...Make it part of the same deal...NOT AFTERWARDS.
Mexico is gaming our system....they are NOT DOING a thing to control immigration......
4
In these dark days of the partial US government Trump-shut-down engineered by Trump, due to a a fabricated crisis, I cant help thinking that the shut down was the goal all along. If one were a co-opted president with no empathy or morals, who is under obligation and the control of the Russian mob/Oligarchy and it's leader Vladimir Putin. Trump acts as if he is so desperate to be one of the gang. Shutting down and hampering the Federal government and it's criminal investigative and security apparatus would be a crime boss's dream.
The shut down enables potential smuggling of drugs, sex workers, weapons, and smuggling out transferable assets, and stolen children for body parts and organ replacements. Fresh livers for Vodka soaked ones! there is no limit to the potential darkness and criminality of Mr. Trump. This is a tremendous opportunity for the wanna-be oligarch to make a percentage like his much emulated cronies. As trump himself said "I could shoot somebody on fifth Avenue and not lose any voters"
5
Y’know, I just don’t care anymore why Trump does what he does. I just want to see him made incapable of doing it anymore. We all have more than enough turmoil and uncertainty in our lives. What I expect first and foremost from my government is quiet stability and a willingness to solve the problems that affect the vast majority of us. The (expletive deleted) wall means nothing to me and it means even less because Trump wants it. This “master of disaster” and his enablers and supporters are an unnecessary and unwelcome annoyance. Let me pull a chestnut from the past these folks think was so great - “America - love it or leave it”. And while you’re leaving, don’t let the door hit you in the keyster on your way out.
11
Trump and Senate Republicans are now plunging America into recession and ultimate catastrophe. They must be made to pay a price at the polls for their disgraceful behavior. They care nothing for those affected by the shutdown. People will soon start dying because of the shutdown. Pelosi and the Democrats need to stay tough and aggressive. You cannot negotiate with the likes of Trump and McConnell. You must hold out until they cave, resign, removed from office, or are defeated.
8
Language is the most important element in this back-and-forth conflict between Trump-McConnell vs. Pelosi-Schumer. If the listener is not sensitive to the nuances of language and the deflection that these politicians employ---especially I believe by the Republicans--he/she will be very easily misled.
Consider the following: Pelosi says that a wall is immoral; she does not want to pay for a wall. Trump responds that the Democrats want "open borders". A total absurdity.
"No Wall "does not equal "No Border Security."
On the contrary, most experts say that surveillance technology and more personnel is far more effective in securing the border than building a Trump Wall.
How best to secure the border---which both sides want---is what politics is all about; it has to be negotiated not dictated.
And then McConnell ridicules Pelosi's calling this wasteful wall "immoral" ---implying, "How can a wall be immoral?" Doesn't he understand that spending taxpayers' money on something that is ineffective, simply to satisfy the ego of a thoughtless megalomaniac is totally IMMORAL!
Deciding how to spend public money requires discussion and debate by Congress---legislators who should be guided by what is most effective and least costly. Public money requires moral individuals to allocate it---not selfish politicians focused on their own silly needs. Trump who can only think of himself--what makes him look good, his being the "winner"---should stay out of it.
9
I continue to suspect we will eventually find out that one main driver of these inhumane and cruel immigration policies date back about 17 years...when a young Stephen Miller fell for a Hispanic schoolmate and ( because the object of his affection realized that he was seriously flawed emotionally) he was rejected.
5
@4Katydid You may be right. Miller is the driver of Trump's hateful policies. Trump himself is a petty and shallow emotion driven man. They accuse women of being too emotional...these GOPers got em all beat. Ray Sipe
3
How is it that the Democrats are to blame? I do believe Republicans had the majority in the House and Senate before January 2nd.
The President had two years to work out his 'deal'.
Now he has blamed the Democrats.
However, he declared on December 11th that he’s “proud to shut down the government for border security” and will “take the mantle.”
10
No one could possibly trust Pelosi to negotiate once the government is reopened. And is it possible for Chuck to make a statement without reading from a piece of paper? What a duo - same old leadership.
6
Ms Pelosi is not the one who started this. Every person involved in early childhood development knows you don't give in to a tantrum. The art of the deal requires negotiation, not a wall. My way or the highway is not negotiation.
3
@Jackson,
Your comments is laughable! Trump can't ever speak extemporaneously without a TelePrompTer and when he is reading his prepared statement(s), it's as if English were his second language.
Schumer and Pelosi can talk Trump under the table any give day, but then again, so can my ten year nephew.
2
@MJM It's her job to negotiate.
In blunt terms, Trumps offer is give me what I want and I will let you temporarily have what you want for 3 yrs before I take it away again. What a deal!!! By the way, next year, when I need the next down payment we can do this all over again. Oh, by the way, I have no detailed plan on how the money will be used but trust me as I am the greatest at everything I have ever done and it will be the bestest, greatest, most magnificent barrier ever. Lets hope that Muellar's report puts Trump behind the only walls he deserves.
8
Somehow McConnell at least needs to tweet about this fiasco and Pence as well. I surmise that Twitter has not still landed in Kentucky and Indiana. We are good about it.
1. Build a wall around Trump and Republicans.
2. Add a lock and key.
3. Lock the wall.
4. Throw away the key.
8
McConnell is allowing our citizens, employees, and economy to take a shellacking that will cost all of us precious tax dollars that our country can ill afford.
Regarding legal immigration, while I appreciate legislators attempts to meet the needs of their constituents, since when did the needs of the few override the needs of the many? Since when did Hannity, Ingraham, and Coulter (SHILAC) speak for all America and why are they allowed to establish National policy? What other policy is Hannity counselling trump on?
Coulter made clear SHILAC’s fomented nationalism when she tweeted “Better to leave “Dreamers” in limbo than in our country.” Whose country is she talking about? For SHILAC, it’s not NIMBY, it’s NIMA, Not In My America, as if their heritage isn’t rooted outside of the US.
On the View, when asked about her heritage, Coulter said, “…I’m descended from settlers. Not from immigrants…I’m living in America, which was created by settlers, not immigrants.” I guess that depends on which side of the gun you are standing.
In Ann’s world, settlers just dropped out of the sky and started settling America. In Ann’s revisionist history, America is off-limits to other would be “settlers.”
Hannity (Irish), Ingraham (Irish, Polish), and Coulter’s Irish lineage are from the Irish famine period when thousands of “aliens” were shoved overseas like trash to the Americas because they were too expensive to help.
Hardly “settlers.”
10
@LivingWithInterest
Coulter might also want to look at a map. The border moved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War#/media/File:Mexican_Cession_in_Mexican_View.PNG
1
A funny thing happened just after the 2016 presidential election. It seems after 8 years of resolutely using the word against anything Obama, Republicans have conveniently forgotten what the word “NO” means.
5
SMS nailed the article. Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh run the WH. Another reason to send the Australian back to Australia.
Also, everyday McConnell extend this "shutdown" is one less day the Democrats control the agenda. Resist and delay. That's his mantra. Maybe all those serving in the military will remember who put them in this position and not mindlessly vote Republican.
7
@mikeoare City dwellers, understand my statement about the military. I grew up in a rural area. Jobs in rural areas don't exist today. The only reliable avenue out of poverty today is to join the military. The parents know this as do the military recruiters. They prowl the hallways of rural high schools looking for the smart kids and ply them with visions of free higher education with a catch. Republicans are strong on defense because it means VOTES.
4
Funny I was thinking this morning how both trump and McConnell seem to have little control over anything. I had reservations about Pelosi becoming Speaker, not anymore, she can easily handle these two bad boys with one arm tied behind her back.
9
Speaker Pelosi's first and simplest talking point has to be this:
She refused to negotiate with Trump because Trump first stole our wallet (DACA, TPS, etc.), and now he comes back with the stolen wallet pretending it's his to give.
Trump is not being "reasonable", he's being a con. He needs to be called on that loud and clear before going on to anything else.
Democrats must keep it simple, keep it straight, and hit hard with that simple truth. Again and again. Like Republicans do with their talking points.
Repeat: Speaker Pelosi refused Trump's spurious offer because he opened it by bargaining with stolen goods.
Don't let that valid refusal land on the Democrats' court as their fault, because it doesn't belong there. We don't negotiate with thieves.
Democrats keep taking the high road of political correctness and diplomatic language when they're in a brawl and getting punched. Hit back already.
Same goes for all the soup kitchens where Hollywood celebrities are now doing photo ops feeding TSA and other federal workers.
TV is rife with workers pawning their goods and selling their cars. Those workers need to strike. Civil disobedience is obligatory when resisting illegal and perverse laws, such as forcing workers to keep working without pay. THAT is illegal.
Weeks ago the French would have already burnt Paris and the rest of France.
Consider this: If McDonalds went on strike, Trump would fold immediately.
oz.
13
It’s the media that is enabling the “Democrats on defense” notion. Stop it! It’s really the McConnell/Trump/Pelosi dilemma. McConnell refuses to bring legislation which was passed unanimously by all Republican and Democratic Senators before Christmas. Just because Limbaugh and Coulter complained Trump renegaded on his previous endorsement. So who carries MOST of the blame? Trump and McConnell!
18
Mitch McConnell has upended the Senate and given our democracy to the Putin. He and Republicans in Congress remain complicit with Trump to destroy the US. We can't continue down this path.
10
For those who say we should just give him the $5 billion for his wall remember this, the nation is running a deficit budget, constantly having to borrow money. Since there is no extra money it's going to have to be, once again, borrowed money, and increase the national debt. And that $5B is only a down payment on the wall. Most likely Trump and McConnell will pull the same stunt again when it's time for the second installment to be paid. Trump couldn't care less about building an actual "wall". It's only about pandering to his base and the conservative media. I say no money for the wall!
14
In this context, it's not a "plan" Republicans are pushing. It's an add-on to Trump's extortion. If it was a plan that they wanted to negotiate, they wouldn't be holding the government workers hostage. Please choose your words more carefully so that they're accurate.
14
#1. The GOP does not want a wall.
If the GOP supported the wall, then in Jan. 2018, when trump was offered $20b in exchange for a permanent DACA solution, McConnell would have brought a bill to the floor.
#2. The GOP does not want a solution to DACA after trump's forced error by cancelling DACA.
If the GOP supported DACA, then in Jan. 2018, when trump was offered $20b in exchange for a permanent DACA solution, McConnell would have brought a bill to the floor.
10
Good luck cornering Democrats, who are obviously responding to a President who is trying to legislate by hostage-taking, something that just can't be permitted because he will do it the next time funding legislation comes up.
The country can see what is going on here. The longer he keeps the government shut over what will amount to 1/20th of what it would take to really build that wall, the more it's going to hurt the GOP.
18
Agree with your comments. However, this assumes that the electorate reads and thinks.
2
What, now tRump & Co. wish to normalize hostage-taki g? He has grabbed 1.8 million people (Dreamers, TPS, and federal employees). We are outraged by this deplorable tactic, but the media seems to act like this is just the way the game is played. Before I would negotiate, they would have to restore these three groups. Period.
11
Republicans are making a potentially fatal mistake in backing the president on this bogus proposal. We see what he's up to and if the Republicans line up behind him, they could find themselves without their federal paychecks, as 800,000 Americans are right now.
Back away from Trump or you could find yourselves joining the unemployment lines along with them.
6
Three year DACA protection is worthless. Dems will control government in less than two and they can get whatever they want. The more Trump delays the bigger the blue wave.
7
Trump, emotionally, is a child.
Give in now, and he will use the government shutdown weapon again at the next opportunity.
Democratic Congress members all need to decline their wages and put the blame on McConnell, who refuses to put a bill up without funding for the idiotic Wall.
9
Trump said he would own the shutdown, and he should continue to do so, until he proffers a better bipartisan solution which reopens all of the government, as the Dems have stated, since it commenced. Trump should be held to his word.
McConnell has arbitrarily refused to bring the new bills that the House Dems have passed, that were the same as those passed by both houses in the last session of Congress, prior to the shutdown.
It is like a fairy tale, that McConnell is the prince that has suddenly awakened, is amenable to adding unacceptable requirements to those bills, like a temporary three year DACA solution, which is no viable solution at all to the Democratic House.
Trump and McConnell should remember that there are also GOP Senators who are at risk in their states, as well. The GOP no longer holds all of the keys to the kingdom, and must share the burdens with the benefits.
5
This looks like a Republican Epic failure.
16
@Keith Dow Looks like a missed opportunity by the Democrats. Instead of leading they're just waiting for failure.
4
If the President wants funding for a special project like the wall he says he wants he should have submitted a proposal for it 2 years ago and the Republican controlled Congress should have acted on it through the normal legislative process. Discussion of the details, cost analysis, environmental impact study, impact on residents and property owners and if approved, a detailed budget. Instead, they did nothing for two years and now Trump is demanding $5.7 billion for a project that doesn't even exist. That's not reasonable. There's also a process for funding the government. The House passes bills, which they did the day Congress convened, the Senate votes on them, the House and Senate reconcile differences in their bills and it goes to the President. Mitch McConnel has obstructed this process and, refused to allow a vote, and is now demanding the House pass Mitch and Trump's budget with $5.7 billion for the President's imaginary wall. That's not reasonable either. The normal operations of the government need to be funded. Funding bills start in the House. The routine funding of the government and paying of workers should never be interfered with or blocked because of unrelated business.
18
he must think that we are completely stupid. That is not even an offer in compromise. Trump is holding people hostage, and we do not negotiate with terrorists.
22
"Nancy Pelosi has behaved so irrationally...".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Behaved so irrationally..."? Is that because she's a female, trump?
I guess you would know about irrationality seeing as how you're a daily example of it...
Republicans DO NOT have America's back!
19
Like the gangster he is, Trump takes 2 hostages... DACA and government funding... then asks "Which one do you want to save... you can't save them both."
15
If the Republicans want to continue to exist as a Political Party they better dump Trump. Supporting this surly criminal has reduced them to his level. They are fully aware that he is not to be trusted and their pretending to love him has not fooled the American public.
Nor are any of us taken in by this foolish Republican insistence on Trump’s wall which the people living there don’t want and which we all know will only result in new and better tunnel building technology.
70% of Americans oppose this wall and are in no mood to kiss up to this foolish president or a political party behaving stupidly in the hope that we will buy into their misguided reasoning and silly vanity.
Sensible Americans are not fools!
17
Trump wants to reinstate the DACA protections in return for 5.7 billion dollars for a wall. These protections were taken away by Trump when he took office, but of course Trump and the GOP are relying on the stupidity of the public to not remember these facts.
The GOP is the cancer on this country.
23
This is not a good deal. Trump always reneges on his deals. And this is no different. He is narcissistic and unfamiliar with the US Constitution r how many laws work in our country. In addition he is amoral so he doesn't care if Americans suffer. And the GOP still stand on the sideline like sheep. They believe a horrible, awful, scandalous Liar -in- Chief is better than any other reasonable democrat. Hope the tide shifts soon and in 2020.
7
This is a Mitch McConnell shutdown and by the way, where are the Pesos?
15
About the shutdown and this presidency.....Murphy's law applies: "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong".
3
Offering a reasonable plan is equal to "cornering", in some people's minds. A reasonable compromise was offered, which included some of Pelosi's goals and proposals. This is so bad?
Where is the intellectual honesty among the Dems? And, the press.
6
@Joe Yoh It was not a "reasonable compromise". It was a Temporary solution(3 years for DACA) in exchange for a permanent wall. Not equal at all. NO. Honesty/ Trump has no knowledge of the word. Ray Sipe
3
All Trump did was to say he would partially restore something he already attempted to completely rescind (DACA). All Trump has to do us approve the previous bipartisan bill he only backed away from when Fox news complained.
4
@Joe Yoh
Sorry but I do not consider the plan reasonable. I think Dreamer legislation should be considered separately from Trump's wall since Trump rescinded Dreamer legislation that was already in place. I say end the shutdown and let Congress do take over negotiations. Trump does not have a good track record for honesty.
1
Nice try Republicans, but NOBODY puts Pelosi nor the Democrats in a corner. Trying to use them as Trump's ill-composed exist strategy will only show how desperate this man is rather than any resolve he may claim to possess.
12
Trump's says"Temporary for MY WALL!" Try governing, Mr. President? That involves: 1) re-opening the government and 2) negotiating (give some - get some.)
You and Jared wondering what Dems will sign? Not governing. Not leading. Not even close.
5
Why negotiate with Trump? On this issue, Ann Coulter is in charge. Negotiate with her. Trump will do whatever she says.
15
From a traditional Republican:
Republicans/President should quickly sign legislation reopening the Government—especially since the shutdown is due to the President changing his mind just before Christmas. After Government reopening negotiate southern border security.
Remember it is only 22 months to 11/20.
14
Trump’s “proposal” is a deplorable expansion of his blackmail from government workers and those depending on their business to also hold hostage the futures of the “Dreamers” and asylum seekers. The authorities wouldn’t pay the terrorist his ransom, so he upped the ante by grabbing more victims, who will be tossed into limbo for another three years if House Democrats agree to cede to Trump their sole constitutional power to determine government spending and thereby substitute the legislative process for his authoritarian dictates. And McConnell and his Republicans are accomplices for promoting the crime rather than telling the dictator that he cannot hold government process and the power of the separate branches hostage to demands of any kind.
Trump has attacked democracy through support of authoritarians, by positions against allies and institutions of western democratic alliance, by attacking intel and enforcement agencies, the press, and the courts which fulfill the necessary checks and balances of a separate-but-equal government branch. Trump has always been after power—to appropriate and consolidate it to his ends.
The shutdown is the most significant attempt by Trump to assert his vision of personal superiority and empowered authority over government. If Congress caves, the consequences to democracy, the exercise of power, and the enhanced prevalence for its abuse by Trump or any future despot is the overriding issue, the value of which is too high a price to bargain.
12
Trump and the Republicans HAVE cornered Democrats. The president's latest offer to settle important issues and end the government shutdown exposes Pelosi and Schumer as too HATEFUL of the president to even try to negotiate a deal. This is NOT the relationship most Americans want between our two parties.
At the same time Trump has made a fair and reasonable compromise offer. The Dems failure to even follow up on it demonstrates how totally phony is their alleged compassion for both DACA Dreamers and furloughed federal workers. They refuse to lift a finger to help both groups.
Trump's offer also underscores their total disregard for security at our southern border, which most Americans understand is a perfectly legitimate national concern.
7
How is partially restoring what Trump previously tried to rescind while making taxpayers pay for what he said Mexico would pay for a fair offer?
7
It’s pretty obvious by now Trump has absolutely no negotiating skills other than banal, borderline illiterate insults on Twitter. He’s just a loser who goes around insisting he’s a “winner” and scraping the bottom of the American barrel for followers.
14
Step one: reopen the government.
Step two: spend a month debating and negotiating comprehensive immigration reform.
I am sick of this. The furloughed employees are sick of it. Refugees being illegally held in detention are sick of it. Farmers are sick of it. The fact that it continues is morally repugnant. Get over yourselves, Trump and McConnell. You wanted this job, you got it. Now do your duty or get out.
15
I am getting sick and tired of an infantile President, holding the country hostage to his 'toy', a Congress whose main goal is who wins and who loses, the utter disrespect going around with both Republicans and Democrats (fueled by hate twitts by Trump), while a million citizens are going unpaid and almost destitute...
Why do we need elected officials , whose aim is to do one-ups-man-ship at the expense of the electorate.
This worse than kindergarten squabble among 4-5 yr olds! "This is mine and you stole it..."
9
Schumer hit the nail on the head, but he should get that last bit of varnish off it - Trump is a political terrorist. He's holding his own government workers hostage to get what he wants, not what the country needs or wants. And, this is classic Trump, create a mess (take away DACA rights), then act like a hero in giving back what he took. Start a fire, put it out, call yourself a hero, done. What a loser. Yes, I think McConnell is playing Senate for the president a bit too overtly, huge conflict of interest there Mitch?
11
1. Trump doesn’t have any true friends.
2. Putin acts like he likes Trump and is a real friend. A buddy. Another guy in high places who doesn’t need Trumps money or power. A buddy for Trump.
3. Trump will do a favor please a true friend, a confidant.
4. Putin to Trump—it would be great if you could see a way to lift Russian sanctions
5. Putin to Trump—“Donald, you’re the best negotiator. You we get your way. It works for me.”
Trump to self—I better take the translators notes.
Duh
5
@A Warp We're talking the border security here. In case you didn't notice.
1
Trump cannot be trusted. Time to get rid of him.
4
Its about time this was done. Democrats should have counter proposal prepared immediately. We will note that if Dems vote against a bill they want with a border wall or Filibuster then they are saying that relative to budget they are not willing to pay a minuscule fee to keep government open.
Good counter proposal:
1. Path to Citizenship for DACA children and TTS people here and the wall where expenditure is recommended by commission of border experts who have 60 days to issue a report.
2, A bill that states that in the event that the House and Senate does not pass a CR or funding bill, the executive branch cabinet secretaries, the president, the congressmen and senators will forgo all pay until the shutdown ends. If this part of the government were to be dealt the hardship that the Congress and the President are willing to impose on others shutdowns will never happen.
Donald Trump won an unequivocal electoral victory in 2016. Building a wall on the border was one of the main points in his platform. He has a clear mandate to fulfill this promise. The Democratic obstructionists in Congress are thwarting the will of the American people.
The wall will be built only in vulnerable locations and its construction will make it easier for border control agents to concentrate their interdiction work, thereby realizing manpower efficiencies, that should offset the gross cost of wall construction.
The President's offer to prolong DACA and TPS shows bravery to withstand strong pushback from his ardent law and order supporters. Like all successful relationships, both sides must take a step toward each other. Time for Democrats to demonstrate maturity and the art of compromise.
4
If it was such a crisis and a mandate why wasn’t it the main focus these last two years. You can’t blame the Dems- they were voted in with a mandate too.
1
@RLS. A mandate to enact this particular item? No. Or the Republican Congress would have approved it.
3
Actually, he lost by 3 million vites.
2
In an eloquent piece in "The Nation" (1/18/19) by Rev. Doctor William J. Barber, II and Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove, they state:
"The same politicians who want a wall today are also blocking voting rights and the expansion of healthcare to all Americans; they are the same people who have deregulated corporate polluters and denied climate science—the same ones who insist on increasing investment in the war economy while slashing our nation’s safety net and denying workers the right to earn a living wage."
What is Mitch McConnell's voting record? What is the voting record of the rest of the GOP? This isn't about border security. If it was, Trump would have taken Chuck Schumer's $20 Billion last year.
11
The bottom, bottom line is that the majority of Americans don't want the wall. In 2016 trump lost the popular vote campaigning for his wall. In 2018, trump admonished voters to "pretend that I'm on the ballot". They did, and the Republicans lost 40 House seats. The majority of Americans have voiced their opinion on the wall twice at the ballot box and voted NO to a border wall. Moreover, trump's job approval rating hovers around 40% and has fallen since the shutdown started. Every opinion poll shows that over 50% of Americans - the MAJORITY - DISAPPROVE of the way djt is doing his job, i.e. being intransigent on his wall. In other words, donald trump is trying to shove the will of the MINORITY onto the MAJORITY, and that's not the way a democracy works. One would think that donald trump and the Republicans would take heed.
10
At least the Democrats are trying to reopen the government. Trump and the GOP are trying to keep it closed, figuring that not paying Federal employees is a small price to pay.
Trump has been lying about everything. His dealings with the Moscow tower that he and Giuliani have denied until recently (and their answer is 'so what?'). Trump doesn't care if there is proof that the wall won't help. He said he wants a wall and he won't rest until he gets the money for it. He doesn't care that he promised Mexico would pay for it. He just wants the wall. I wish Nancy would tell him to give her proof that he and his family will pay their taxes (especially since they won't be paying much with their generous tax cuts for the wealthy) so Americans, including his base, can be assured that Trump and his family will pay at least 10 cents towards the wall (while the rest of us are paying thousands of dollars).
I am wondering if Trump will be happy to get the 5 billion, but we'll never see the wall or he will try to point to the wall that is already there and say he built it. His base will believe everything he says and Giuliani will cover it up until there is so much truth out there he has to deny everything he said when he was trying to cover it up. The answer to where the 5 billion went will be as secretive as Trump's tax returns and we will never know who really profited from it.
5
Can't Senate Democrats tack on a brief amendment to the republican bill? It seems like they do this all the time.
The amendment should add ALL qualifying for Dreamer status into the 3 year amnesty seems, given the fact so many have not been able to apply for it in the past 2 years.
Then, send the amended bill on for house and presidential approval.
The wall won't get built anyway, the $5.7 is just funny money that doesn't exist, and it really is not likely to get done.
But - if the shutdown can end quickly, AND all the Dreamers and TPS folks get protected with a brief amendment, then let's PLEASE go with it, Mr. Schumer and Ms. Pelosi.
No, they should not compromise until the government is opened.
2
@jeffk
No, they shouldn't compromise before Or after we get our government back.
In order to secure the border we should have a combined technological study on how to secure the border.by non - political organizations such as the National Academy of Sciences, The American Association for the Advancement of Science, Law enforcement, etc.
With the type of construction President Trump wants, it is possible to climb over the wall, go under the wall, fly over the wall and have drones go over the wall.
If the land border is secured from Mexico, there are thousands of miles of ocean to protect. The Coast Guard should also be involved.
Smuggling of all kinds can come from Canada, even though they are our friends
Even if we have a good border security setup we must continuously change or technology and tactics as smogglers will eventualy find ways around them.
3
Trump’s deal is a promise not to end DACA for the next 3 years. This is being reported variously as either: A pretty good deal worth considering; or Trump returning what he took away as a bargaining chip. Neither of these are accurate, since Trump never managed to take DACA away in the first place; he tried to but was blocked by the courts.
Appeals courts have already prevented Trump from ending DACA, and the SCOTUS just refused to hear his appeal this term. So DACA stands, for now, and there’s nothing Trump can do about it. He can’t return something that he was unsuccessful in taking away.
So he’s offering to not do something that he’s legally blocked from doing in any case. Even then he’s only offering not to do it on a temporary basis.
If Trump gets another term, and if the SCOTUS agrees to hear his DACA appeal, and if Trump wins... the temporary deal he’s offering would be close to expiration by then. He’s therefore offering nothing at all, since he could still end DACA in 3 years time, and he’s legally prevented from doing so until it becomes legal - which would take about 3 years anyway.
In response, Democrats should offer to agree to the $5.7B funding but only starting in 3 years time, and make it dependent on whether DACA has been permanently agreed by then. I.e. Nothing for nothing.
4
Ann Coulter says, "We elected Trump, and got Jeb Bush." Well, the country elected Trump, and got Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh.
This fight doesn't seem to be just about the Wall, or even just border security. It seems to be about teaching Donald Trump that he has to stick to the things he's agreed to, no matter what Ann Coulter, et al, say. And that negotiating isn't just brinkmanship, and "the deal" has to give the other side something they value, not just returning what he took away. These man be hard lessons for a man in his seventies to learn, but nobody asked Donald Trump to run for president, so he can just man up and learn some new skills, because the time for appeasing him is over.
8
It is interesting that this article was right next to another article on how Trump's strategy is winning through chaos. It is difficult for a 72 year old to learn new patterns. He is not going to learn anything, but he should not get his way by sowing chaos, destroying Americans and American institutions in the process.
11
Trump owns the shutdown as he will also own the negative economic impact of his actions.
9
Why not a national referendum on whether the country wants
The Wall or not? And both sides pledge to honor the results of such vote?
4
@icohen82. Love the idea, but Mitch and the GOP would never go for it. We all know how it would turn out.
1
If a government shutdown is now used as the bargaining power in the “Art of the Deal”, and Trump’s idea of sweetening the deal is to bring candy to the negotiation meeting, who would ever want to take a government job again?
5
So Trump says I will give you part of what I took away if you agree to give me my wall. If the Dems say, yes, let's negotiate part funding of the wall for part DACA protection, he will then say, give full funding or I will take away my offer and keep the government closed, which was never an offer. Then he will say he negotiated in good faith and the Dems refused. The shutdown is their fault.
1
Donald Trump owns the shutdown. He said as much in December. Nancy Pelosi is correct -- the wall is immoral. William Hurd, the only GOP representative left on the Texas border, doesn't believe the wall will work as a solution. Why is the GOP interested in throwing away $5.7 billion on a solution that wouldn't work? What else could they do with that money? Yes, that is immoral. The GOP didn't support the Wall when they had the House and the Congress? The GOP needs to muscle up the votes for the bill they were working on in December. And yes -- reopen the Government. Who shuts down the Dept of Homeland Security while claiming a crisis at the border? Who refuses to pay the Coast Guard? Hasn't the GOP ever heard of boats?
2
It is difficult to understand Democratic opposition to "President" Trump's proposed solution to the government lockout.
In tough negotiations between Chicken Mitch, Incitatus Kushner and Right Reverend Pence, a more than fair deal has been hammered out.
In addition to the 800,000 Federal employees,
The Trump ransom now includes 200,000 DACA hostages.
And untold numbers temporary residents as well.
Of course he merely wants a $5,700,000,000.00 blank check for a wall/slats of steel/barrier.
2
" ... Democrats will stay on offense in the House, where they have already passed a string of government funding bills that Mr. McConnell ... has refused to take up ... McConnell ... plans to bring up legislation as early as Tuesday that would wrap Mr. Trump’s proposal into a broader package ... " Mr. McConnell said he would only allow Senate votes when the Democrats and POTUS agree. But now when Mr. Trump has a proposal with no Democratic input, its full speed ahead. Mr. McConnell's MO at work, party above country, no qualms about abusing power, e.g. Judge Merrick Garland. The current GOP does not negotiate, they connive.
4
The extortionist -in-chief said repeatedly "Mexico will pay for the wall", also "I'll be proud to shutdown the gov't", and "I will own the shutdown and will not blame the Democrats". How can anyone believe much less negotiate with someone whose word is worthless?
Open up the govt't Mr. McConnell by putting to a vote the bills that have enjoyed bipartisan support already. Do your job which is not to be a lackey to a President who takes orders from Putin,. Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity, but to protect federal workers and the country from the actions of a narcicistic madman.
Democrats, hold firm : NO negotiations till he opens the gov't and then reinstate the 2013 Comprehensive Immigratrion Bill that passed the House and that the Republicans (AGAIN) refused to bring down to the floor of the Senate for debate, amendments and a vote which would have been a good start to once and for all resolve the immigration issue.
The GOP and Trump are nothing but a bunch of hypocrytical clowns!
3
I hope my fellow commenters have taken more time than just writing to the winds here at the NY Times comment section. I hope you have at the very minimum contacted your Congress member and/or Senators. If you haven't, then you aren't making a difference.
6
No, enough of the transparent lies and the gaslighting. Trump said on December 11, 2018, live in front of a television camera, “I will own this shutdown.” Now he is claiming to be the reasonable one. Once again, he has manufactured a crisis and then pretends to try to solve it. All in plain view. All so he could build a monument to ignorance and stupidity. This has to stop now. It should have stopped long ago. All the sane people in this country needs to take a stand, and that includes the press who needs to be even firmer in calling out Trump’s transparent lies.
5
Does anyone else find it ironic that Trump dares to admonish other people for acting "so irrationally"?!?!
2
SMS almost had it correctly. The ones who really own this shutdown are Hannity, Coulter, and Limbaugh. They are Trump's worst enemies, not his friends. By stating that Trump can not win in 2020 without building the wall, they pushed Trump into a corner.
Now, with Trump "owning" the shutdown, the Democrats are in a position of power to wait it out until he caves, which he will, and then by his own so-called "friends" account, he won't win in 2020. The Democrats saved the country $1.7 Billion and saved us from another 4 years of this mad man.
4
@FrankWillsGhost. OK - its all about strategy and who is right, who is wrong.
But no mention of the actual pain/loss/risk being imposed on the hostages, not on just 800,000 American citizens, but millions - government contractors, businesses that rely on customers, families, daycare providers, landlords, utilities.
And on all of us who will see the best and the brightest government employees leave for more secure jobs in the private sector.
Strategy matters, of course. But the lives of our fellow Americans, the hostages, matter more.
The US GOVT is not the Trump organization where Trump was unquestioned as he decided all issues alone, now as president he has to answer to the people who selected Ms. Pelosi to represent the people's House. McConnell is terrified of Trump's rabid base so he cowers before Trump looking for a pat on the head despite Trump undermining him constantly. McConnell knew the Russians were helping to elect TRump but he wanted that scotus seat he stole from Obama so he kept quiet. McConnell said he wanted Obama to be a one term president now he cries obstruction a typical Republican hypocrite pandering to the 1% his paymasters.
8
Dems: don't cave! We need to stand up to RussianPuppet while we still can. He is weakening our democracy every moment, degrading the FBI, Military, Courts, Press, Federal Workforce, Intelligence, Security, State, and above all, the Office of the Presidency itself. The way out of this is for the House and Senate to come to the aid of their country and override him while they still have the power to.
8
The Wall Con
Trump is king of the con. Many who voted for him were conned. Many others joined him because he played to their racism, their prejudices, their mission of white supremacy.
Trump claims a wall will keep out terrorists, will reduce illegal drugs by 50%. He says history shows walls work.
Remember the wall that separated East and West Berlin. People cheered when it was demolished. And the walls of Jericho. They came tumbling down.
Walls do not create peace; they create animosity.
It is stupid to think a wall between the U.S. and Mexico will quench America’s thirst for drugs. Nixon declared war on drugs in 1971. In 2010, Americans spent $109 billion on illegal drugs (White House report).
Drugs come in from all borders and by air.
If Trump followers keep fighting forTrump's wall, they should demand he fulfill his pledge that Mexico pay for his wall. Holding U.S. federal employees hostages in Trump’s effort to build his wall is against human decency. Trying to make Congress bend to his will is being traitor to our Constitution. The U.S. Senate should loyal to Americans, not Trump. And senators would do well to remember that more people voted against Donald Trump than voted for him.
2
Whatever your political party is, no President should be allowed to hold government workers as pawns to get a deal done. This is not only a shameful tactic but a dangetous one. I happened to be flying this weekend over the severe winter storm. The pilot let us know that there was turbulance ahead, but couldnt be as accurate due to the government shut down. Shame on our President who is supposedly a great deal maker.
6
@EvelynS
While it is easy to blame the President especially since he made his remark about being responsible the truth of the matter is that, technically, he is not. Article 1 section 7 of the Constitution lays out the process for raising revenue to fund our government. At this point in the process Congress has not sent a bill to the President for his signature. Therefore ,technically speaking, Congress is to blame.
1
Trump is an arsonist, who sets the fire and then slips out the door, sticks on a fire hat and crashes onto the scene claiming only he will fix the situation.
The reality is he created the humanitarian crisis on the border, as well as complete chaos throughout an already dysfunctional immigration system that has no chance of improving while he is at the helm with the Republicans enabling his alt right bigotry, overall incompetence and haphazard, yet consistently draconian imperatives.
That he is insisting on the implementation of a mindless and deceptive slogan supported by a cascade of lies and obfuscations is an insult to our collective intelligence and as that is precisely how he ran his businesses into the ground, there's no reason to believe that giving him what he wants will prevent him from continuing to act like an emotional tyrant with the skill set of a five year old.
There is no reason for the government to be shut down, because the worst president in modern history is having a temper tantrum. Mitch McConnell and the Republicans are continuing the process of writing their own obituaries by catering to the narrow slice of extremists they have apparently convinced themselves they need to keep in the fold even if they all end up in a black hole of negative energy.
4
Trump does one ugly thing after another to people and then uses each to perpetrate and leverage another horrible situation. Scorched earth policies for his own country neglecting and harming every aspect of relations between people, environment and civilized rule of law are the only deal we are getting. The Democrats are right to say "no more." Open the government.
6
The Democrats cannot permit themselves to do anything until Trump ends his own government shutdown. Moreover, they should never agree to the wall which has become, like such symbols of the past--like the white sheets and the burning crosses--an undeniable and indelible manifestation of the Trump lies, racism and fear mongering. The people who once wore sheets now wear red baseball hats and khakis and chant "build the wall." The Democrats can no more support the wall than they can support the sheets and burning crosses. Case in point:
As we all know, several days ago in Washington a large group of white male high school students in red MAGA hats and shirts threatened and mocked five black protestors and the native American protestors who had interceded. The young white men chanted, "build that wall." There is no plausible interpretation for the intent and symbolism behind chanting this, other than the deplorable one. The students are now denying what witnesses like the native American veteran Mr. Phillips attest to. That denial is, of course, right out of the Trump lies and misrepresentation racist playbook. NPR did a fine news piece on the encounter this morning. Phillips himself had interceded between the large crowd of young white men and five black protestors after it looked like things would get violent.
3
What’s this about? Certainly not DACA. It’s about the President holding the American people hostage for a vanity project. I would say campaign project, but even his base has forgot that Mexico’s going to pay for it. Trump said has said he would proudly own the shutdown and not blame the Democrats. They should keep him at his—ha, ha—word. Unfortunately, it may take a real catastrophe for Trump to see his mistake.
5
Who owns the shutdown?
Until we’re in agreement on an answer, we are simply stuck on the question.
Suppose we look outside the country for an answer. Surely this is not Mexico. But what if it’s Russia? What if Putin owns the shutdown - because Putin owns Trump?
Trump certainly is not benefiting from the shut-down. His poll numbers have taken a dive since he did so.
Is Putin benefitting from the shut-down? YES! So Putin has no reason to tell his Puppet to end the shut-down.
Whether it’s true or not, I suggest that the only thing that might sway Trump is to pin the shut-down on Trump being a Putin-controlled Stooge. To paint him as too cowardly to stand up to Putin. To dare him to defy Putin and open-up the government. To describe the shut-down as a treasonous act, a means of handing the US economy and Republic to Putin.
Is Trump man enough to stand up to Putin and open up government?
Make this all about Trump being Putin’s Pawn, his Puppet.
1
The humanitarian crisis is that over 800,000 - a million Americans are suffering because they have not been paid for a month. End this crisis now and then negotiate the other humanitarian crisis on the border. Remind Trump and his supporters, America first!!
3
This man wins with blueprinted chaos in overdrive. Intelligence hasn't a chance as nerves frayed from daily drama bludgeoning the senses. Trump needs you to feel not think and the blitz is on. Cattleproding his base into roundup and they his lifeline to continue. Great-Good-Madness.
2
The Democrats better start shifting to the middle or they can write off 2020.
3
Better check Fox’s facts. The majority of the Dems and Independents have not suddenly shifted far left. So sorry that your oh so obvious attempt to use scare tactics to misinform the voters just fell flat. We are closer to the middle than you and the Freedom Caucus stuck in the extreme right are.
2
The terrorists in Congress (looking at you, Mitch and Lindsay) need to be held to account for the ongoing disaster known as Donald Trump. If not for Mitch and Lindsay, Mafia Don would have been removed long ago. Americans rightly worry about Mideast terrorism. But no terrorist organization has ever caused so much damage to so many people as the Republicans. Even right-wing domestic terrorists don't compare to Congressional Republicans. If the country survives (and that's a big if) these terrorists need to be brought to justice.
5
It's not about money. It's not even about a wall as such. It's about a despicable promise Trump made to rev up a segment of his base. This money, and whatever it might fund, is symbolic of Trump's America, exclusionary, racist, and white supremacist. I believe the Democratic leadership knows this, but want to avoid, for as long as possible, a show-down on that issue while Trump is backed by Fox and by Troglodytes like Coulter, Hannity, and Steve King.
7
Trump’s value to the billionaires running the GOP depends on his ability to rouse his base.
That ability depends upon Fox, upon Hannity, Coulter & Limbaugh, and more generally the brainwashing machine run by the billionaires.
Too bad for Trump. The folks glued to “alternative facts” are now set to turn upon him without even a shrug because they view a 3 year extension of an impossible situation for some immigrants to be “amnesty”. This ridiculous distortion of Trump’s offer indicates that the faintest gesture in Trump’s part is considered traitorous to the rabid right-wing extremists.
If Trump does ANYTHING, it will impact his base, reduce his usefulness to the billions billionaire cabal, and open the door to McConnell to force Trump’s resignation.
Trump can’t do a thing. Resolution of the shutdown is all on McConnell. He can let a bill be passed that Trump cannot override, thereby ending the shutdown and letting Trump off the hook with his base.
Of course, that is McConnell’s job — letting bills go up for a vote. Trump (if he had a brain) would be pushing McConnell in this direction. We’ll see.
6
& John Brews. Mitch doesn’t particularly care about getting Trump off the hook. What he cares about is maintaining and increasing power. He doesn’t want his large portion of vulnerable senators to anger the strongest Trump fans, because then they won’t be re-elected.
1
It is really very simple. Three quarters of the Country do NOT want a wasteful and ineffective wall. The wall is trump's vanity project and will do nothing to address any problems that may exist at the border. This entire issue of a wall and a crisis was invented by trump to feed his frenzied base of malcontents. Like most narcissists, trump thinks something is a good idea because HE thought of it. It is not a good idea and a huge waste of money. Think; medical care,(you tried to kill), education, the environment, infrastructure. That is where we need money to go! Not a vanity project for someone with poor judgment !
6
Blame?
For two years, the GOP acted like they had a complete lock on the politics of this country and passed measure after measure that hurt the majority of Americans, especially those that did not vote for them. And trump acted like a tin-hat dictator that he wants to be. But they did NOTHING on immigration reform.
Now there is FINALLY another side, one that is far more patriotic than the GOP, which is quickly blocking GOP efforts to ruin America for their wealthy backers.
I fully support this stand made by the Dems on the vanity wall. It won't function and Mexico will not pay for it. I do understand that govt workers are being hurt, but far better this than allowing another two years of boorish amateurism coming from the White House. Mitch's power grabs are being bared for all to see. They both will lose this one.
No Wall, no way!
9
So, it's not about people suffering, it's not about our nation's safety, it's not about doing what's right...it's about "cornering the Democrats."
Ladies and gentlemen...the Republican Party, 2019.
9
This is not a "Deal", this is ransom. Holding the lives of these dreamers, as a carrot to the Democrats is not boxing them in. It is asking the county to put a price on the liberty of an individual.
If the Democrats take this deal they have now agreed to a price of a persons life. This then begs the question of when does the economics of the cost of citizenship render a person irrelevant and worthless.
3
Doesn’t work. Cause Dems get to do the same, send their plan to Mitch and put Repub senators in purple states in trouble too!
So, really, this is still Trump’s problem! The longer it goes on and people see how reckless he really is, and his unpredictable and petulant nature really starts to hurt them, the more Americans understand how destructive he is. He’s been hurting mostly foreigners in the past two years, say, immigrants without protections or Muslims or other foreigners. Now he’s starting to hurt Americans themselves! He’s showing that all he cares about is himself, he’s willing to hurt everybody else to get what HE wants!!
3
These immigrants come to the U.S. primarily to escape problems in their native countries (Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama) which includes a stagnant economy, high levels of crime, political corruption and widespread drug use. There is a legal way to request a green card to enter the U.S., however unlawful mobs entry is not allowed. Shame and disgrace of all these central American countries and their governments who fail to feed their people, to give them medical care, good housing, and jobs. These central American countries and their governments are the ones at fault.
Sorry that your country does not love you anymore. To find true love you need to find and walk on God’s Holy road which will one day open the gate to His Kingdom in Heaven. The road you are currently walking is man made and will only bring you tears and despair, darkness and regrets.
4
Can someone please refresh me as to why the funding of this wall was not approved when the GOP controlled everything? Asking for a friend.
10
All reasonable people should roundly reject trump’s hostage (we, the People) ransom. Once given into, trump will simply use this “strategy” over and over again to get his way. It’s his only method, his only “Art” of the deal. What a sham!
The American people voted in November that they overwhelmingly do not want trump to run our nation into the ground. The Gutless Obtuse Pariahs need to admit they must cede ground.
7
America has a policy of not negotiating with terrorists. 45 has taken hostages and he has demanded a "wall" for their quasi, sort of, exchange (temporary). Do not negotiate with 45 on these terms.
45 clearly stated his desire to shut-down the govt until he was able to fulfill a campaign promise of a "wall". Stay focused, America.
8
In 2016 the democrats put up an open borders candidate, now they are refusing to fund real border security. Any claims by Pelosi or any other democrat that they are for border security is hogwash aka a lie.
3
Dear gullible sap- the Democrats ARE for border security. What they’re against is a nearly 6-billion dollar vanity project that does little to actually battle illegal immigration. You’ve been had.
1
You posted a lie right off the bat! Hillary did not call for open borders. She supported exactly what we do today: more border agents and judges, drones and the best technology, improved facilities, and no kids in cages. Why do you want a wall that will NOT stop the majority of illegals who enter the US via our airports with legal visas.? The visas expire, but the foreigners never go home. What is your and Donald’s solution for that? LoJack perhaps, a Wall never?
@Marcia
I guess you missed wikileaks? No worries this will help you:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-hillary-clinton-open-borders-kass-1012-20161011-column.html
2
Another flip and flop by the spineless Republican lawmakers, who once again side with Trump. Trump is leading them right over a cliff, but slowly enough that they either don't see it or don't care.
4
Mr. Drive-us-into-the-Ditch-MITCH! ... This is on you Mitch. I’ve never more thoroughly despised a politician as I do McConnel.
11
The real crisis here is the fact that all branches of governments are supposed to be equal and under trump and a bunch of cowards GOP leaders we are seeing an authoritarian President making the executive branch something completely different than what the writers of the constitution wanted for this country.
The fact that democrats are standing firmly against this worrisome push from the republicans is important.
We elected a new congress and similar to what happened right after the 2016 election, trump doesn’t care about the result and only cares about his core base which represent a minority in this changing demographic.
Are we going to continue being taken hostage by that minority like it happened with the tea party?
I don’t think so!
6
There are any number of insurmountable (pun intended) reasons why a wall is not going to work. The Great Wall of China never did stop an invasion (though it slowed down a couple by 2 or 3 months. Trump himself gave a speech at a college graduation ceremony in 1999 where he said that if you ever come up against a concrete wall, don't let it stop you. Go over, go under, or go around. H. L. Mencken said, "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." This is the classic example. At his trial, El Chiapo, the former head of the Cali cartel, was laughing & pointing out that they ran drugs across the borders through the entry points in cars & trucks, used tunnels, fishing boats, airplanes, & even tunnels. A wall is useless for stopping this. In addition, Trump's warning about raping & murdering gang members is based on his ignorance of the history of the gang MS-13. It was born in the mid-1980s in Los Angeles when Central American immigrants were being victimized by African-American & Mexican gangs. It wasn't long before they had chapters covering at least 47 of the 50 states. They've been here for over 40 years. The only reason they established themselves in Central America is that, after decades of putting MS-13 members convicted of crimes in jail, GWB decided to deport them to CA instead. Oops. The land-sea border of the US is over 95,000 miles. A few hundred miles of wall is laughable. Terrorists are either native-born or fly into airports.
3
Mitch McConnell has taken down his web page... it is blank. He cannot be contacted by e-mail by friend or foe.
He's been hiding in his secret office at the Capitol and can't be found.
This miserable excuse for a Senator is responding only to Trump, and doing his bidding. He refuses to present the House's well-thought out bills to the Senate for a vote, thus taking each Senator's right to vote away from them.
The Constitution says he must not blockade these bills, but Congressional Republicans are not about following the law anymore.
They support racism, and McConnell is Trump's puppet in this effort.
He has cast aside his sworn oath to uphold the Constitution and represent all Americans, instead siding with racism, and using Federal workers as pawns in a racist coup attempt.
And the People cannot contact him. He's not only racist and a puppet, he's a craven and irresponsible man.
8
The ultimate source of this abominable shutdown is an illegitimately elected president beholden to Russia and to a minority of our own ill informed or just plain deplorable citizens.
Trump’s lawyer has effectively admitted to collusion by the campaign (Trump Tower meeting plus Manafort’s trip to Madrid). He’s also admitted Trump was negotiating a Moscow Trump Tower deal throughout the presidential campaign. This deal would supposedly pay Trump hundreds of millions of dollars. Now, I wouldn’t betray my country for that kind of money, but who believes Trump wouldn’t? If you do, I have a wall to sell you in the desert.
Speed up congressional hearings. Confirm the copious reporting by reputable news sources. Reveal Trump’s criminality and potential treason. Get him out of office as soon as possible. That’s the best way to end our national nightmare.
2
Wow. Our government doesn't work as advertised. I never knew it until the boy king was installed by an ignorant electorate and the GOP was all but happy to shine the gold of his crown. When the government holds it's own people hostage to win legislation that it can't acquire through negotiation, you know we are in dark and scary times.
10
How in God's green acre can anyone say - with a straight face - that Trump's proposal is serious? it's a complete joke. He's like the sandbox bully who offers to stop kicking all the little kids if they'll give him their lunch pails. That ain't compromise, except in McConnell-think. Pelosi should, and will, stick to her guns. And let's watch out for the false equivalence, folks. It's rampant here. Both sides are most assuredly NOT to blame for this mess. As Lurch himself has stated, he owns this shutdown.
5
The Republican plan is a cosmetic cheat. It offers little or nothing. To add to this, Trump has shown that the immigration issues he screams about are a fraud, as we all know, since he offers to essentially repeal his own rescinding of protections. Typical Trump: Create a crisis and then use his action as a bargaining chip. Are we all so myopic that we can't see his cheap game?
3
There is no reason at all to let Trump off the hook for a shutdown he has owned from the beginning. Other than Native Americans, we are all immigrants, including his wives. His position is ridiculous and contrary to our values. The government should shut down completely and unpaid employees refuse to work. There is no such thing as work without pay, as these folks aren’t volunteers and he has taken them hostage. He himself, along with his enablers like Mitch, Pence and Mulvaney should be run out of governing at the earliest opportunity, and contained until then. Maybe someone should take all these retromingents to Liberty and Ellis Islands. What a complete mockery they make of the American Dream.
2
Maybe instead of cutting ‘deals’, which trump seems to treat like the garbage on his desk, Dems should forge a binding agreement. Trump wants to make this about immigration? Ok, sure, demand a path to citizenship for all DACA eligible immigrants, then he can have his $5 billion. Otherwise, negotiations should be held after the government is funded
1
Negotiation is an art which apparently has escaped our politicians.
The puerile antics on both sides are a disgrace.The suspicion that an illegal immigrant may have killed 4 people, should give everyone pause as to what is really needed to give this country a safe but humane immigration system.
Let's stop the showboating and work this thing out.
3
Republicans were willing to hold hostage millions of Americans over healthcare two years ago, willing to shut Democrats out of every committee hearing on Trump's connections with Russia, willing to ban naturalized citizens because they were Muslims, willing to shut down in hearings on gun control, willing to ignore students and parents calling for ban on machine guns, willing to ignore climate change and assistance to hurricane ravaged states and Puerto Rico. People watched it all, and now Trump's Senators want us to believe they have a reasonable offer. Still thinking people will believe anything to push that line.
Nancy keep the line drawn. We do not need a wall to shut us in and others out. That is not what our country is about.
If he wants a wall, repeal with millionaire tax break, take it out of the unaudited Pentagon budget where millions have disappeared, take it out of the White House budget, pass a bill where the President doesn't get a salary or pension or security guards. Say No to the "Wall of Shame".
4
The right wing neo-fasccst party of Trump cannot be allowed a racist "Wall" by a democratic majority. Holding the Government "hostage" cannot be allowed to be a legitimate bargaining position in this Country. Inflicting pain and suffering on innocent workers and businesses that count on workers cannot be a legitimate bargaining chip in this Country. Defeat McConnell and Republicans now and end its leader Trump and his "wall hysteria" and make him the sorriest "LOSER" in US history now.
2
Have I missed the NYT OP-ED on why the Republicans, while controlling both the Executive and Legislative branches for 2-years, did not pass any legislation and funding to Build A Wall?
As every headline is about Trump, why isn't this front page every day of the government shutdown?
10
So, the Democrats strategy is, "Give us everything we want, then we can talk about whatever it is that you want."
The amazing part is that this strategy has worked in the past...
For example, under Reagan, the Democrats promised that they'd deliver on border security, if only he'd grant an amnesty. Well, he did and guess what? They didn't!
It's their M.O. And, it has to end! Thank Heaven above we've finally got a president who isn't falling for it!
3
The border wall idea has its roots in anti-American ideals and principles. It would be far worse for the Congress to consider this authoritarian and hugely flawed demand from the White House. The actions of the many in the Congress are driven not for the good of the People, but by enabling the individuals whose judgments are insults to the People.
2
@HS we are talking about making people use established official.border entry points. There is nothing anti-American about that. Not at all
Shutting down the US government for the longest time in history over a useless wall that we can no longer afford, while manufacturing a crisis at the border, and separating families in ways that are clearly human rights violations, is in and of itself, grounds for IMPEACHMENT. That goes for you too, Mitch.
9
This is a trap for the Democrats. If they accept a deal based on the Dreamers, Republicans can say that Democrats shut down the Government just to help illegal immigrants. Whatever Democrats give Trump for the wall, they should ask for an equal amount to help US citizens, perhaps by increasing the child tax credit. All of it should be paid for by increasing the tax on income of $1 million.
4
Trump discovered at the start of his campaign that a promise to build a wall was seen by his most radical backers as a way to limit non-white people from getting into the country. Trump's white racist backers saw it as a step in protecting the country's white "purity." Now, Trump is stuck with the wall as it is a cornerstone of his promise to the white racist component of his base. with Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, & the Fox crew demanding that he build the wall or lose their (and much of his base's) support. He is in a no-win situation. There is no way the wall can be built within the next couple of decades, so we had best start studying other approaches. In Texas alone, 95% of the border is on private property. If there is one thing (of many) that Conservatives hate about "big intrusive federal government," it is the power of Eminent Domain, when Big Daddy demands that you give the government part of your own private property for what the government deems a "fair" price. All along the Texas border, landowners are lawyering up for hundreds of legal fights against Trump's takings. The great majority of border dwellers DON'T want the wall & will do anything to stop it. Besides, the money Trump is asking for will only wall a couple hundred miles of our 1800 mile border. It is too easy to go over, under, & around. And, he has made up the threats about terrorists, gangbangers, & disease, so no gain there. Just throwing $25 to $70 billion to a symbol for the right.
8
Lord I couldn't have said it myself!!! thank you!
Republicans cannot be trusted as custodians of the federal government. They must be removed from office and Trump's GOP totally annihilated at the ballot box. The GOP can rebuild itself from the ground up, if it's able.
13
@Christopher M
Exactly. THAT is what this is all about today.
The GOP wants to talk about national security whereas they can't even make sure that they themselves at least pay our border patrol agents and Coast Guards.
At this point, ANY talks about national security with Republicans have become totally superfluous.
They don't have ANYTHING serious to offer on border security at all.
On the one hand there's their wall, which Trump's Sec. of Defense, a four-star general, rejects, as does his chief of staff, four-star general Kelly, simply because it's not REAL, effective border security.
And the Republican House Republican who represents the district with the longest southern border (800 miles, Texas) ALSO strongly opposes a wall - as do all but 2 border state Senators.
So fighting for a wall PROVES the incompetency of the GOP on border security here.
And then on the other hand, instead of at least competently implement existing border wall, now they unilaterally decided to no longer pay border patrol agents for an entire month, AND promise to CONTINUE to do so until the non-existing day where Democrats would start supporting a wall too.
This is "big government bureaucracy" at its worst.
And it destroys the Obama economy, together with our national safety.
Such totally irresponsible way of dealing with the country is UNACCEPTABLE.
2
@Christopher M: The Republican Party has existed to deliberately deliver incompetent government since Reagan promised to prove that government is inherently incompetent.
Senator Schumer mentioned the difficulty as a "hostage taking", and "negotiating with a gun to your head." Who are the hostages? 1) the DACA recipients, whose program Trump has been working to eliminate, and 2) Federal workers. Using the "gun to your head" analogy to Trump's offer to grant a 3-year extension to DACA, he essentially says, "I'll temporarily take away the gun from your head if you give me everything I want." This is unacceptable; in pulling this stunt, he's playing with peoples' lives.
6
Speaker Pelosi's biggest problem is that refusing to fund a wall is an irrational move, and President Trump's secret weapon is common sense.
5
OK I'll bite. Trump secret weapon "common sense".
He really is doing well keeping it very secret!
2
Counterproposal: reopen the government, spend $5 billion to remove existing border fencing.
3
Let’s call Trump’s temporary DACA status “offer” what it really is, a means of collecting names and other data on Dreamers that Trump will use at a later date to hold even more people hostage to get his way. A list he will use to round up and lock up more children. We already know Trump has no scruples and “his word” is worthless. These same tactics have been used before by men like Trump. Men Trump aspires to be.
5
The 5+ billion dollar wall monument to Trumps unslakable ego would be better spent on educating kids. Critical thinking seems a thing of the past, replaced by blind acceptance of simplistic "brand" conviction. Climate change, pollution, energy policy and so many others serious challenges to the welfare of all life on our planet is under attack by this buffoon, and it's time to evict him and his enablers from office. NO money, not a cent, for this "wall".
7
This is a real McConnell offer: take away a program most people support, DACA, then offer to give it back temporarily in exchange for something Trump wants, a border wall. If the Democrats ever take control, perhaps they could take away the GOP tax cut and then offer to give it back for a day in exchange for undoing all the damage Trump has inflicted on our country.
11
Illegal immigrants are not democrats or voters and why would democrats concede anything on their behalf. Because republicans say so? This is a bipartisan issue. These immigrants, if they become citizens, can vote for whomever they like. As a Democrat, I owe them nothing and frankly care more about the plight of our own inner city youth where I come from . If you want to spend 5.7 billion dollars it should be towards job training and education in our cities rather than a wall. Don't suckered into taking responsibility for illegal immigration which we all oppose.
1
“McConnell’s view of shutdowns is when you’re in one, it’s a great opportunity for both sides to get things,” said Scott Jennings, ..."
And this is what's wrong here. Shut down the government, make people suffer, and then use the suffering as leverage to get what you want. If this tactic ins't stopped, the next time trump wants something that no reasonable person would give him he'll hold us all hostage again.
Don't negotiate with terrorists.
McConnell has a warped view of his job. trump doesn't have to give his approval prior to writing legislation, he approves it after it's written and approved by congress.
4
Attaching Disaster Relief to his non-starter DOA Bill is just plain cruel.
3
The picture with this article is a sacrilege. Trump standing in front of the portrait of George Washington, which I am sure was planned so as to give him legitimacy, shows a contrast in leadership that can only be described as insulting to America.
8
Please... Can we stop calling this a negotiation, or a compromise, or anything other than what it is: a hostage taker demanding ransom money. This is not how an orderly legislative process works. This is not a discussion on the merits -it is an attempt to extract concessions, regardless of the merits, by extortionate means.
Let’s say Trump holds up a bank and the robbery goes sour, with arrest imminent - like his Presidency after the midterm elections, with Mueller and House Democrats in hot pursuit. Trump barricades himself in the bank and takes hostages at gunpoint. He demands a jet to Rio and $1 million before he’ll let the hostages go. The hostages are hungry. A few are ill and require medical care. But Trump’s demands are ludicrous and no one agrees to meet them.
Days later, he offers a new ‘proposal,’ in ‘the spirit of compromise’: he’ll take $100,000 and a bus ticket to Mexico City.
Are we now supposed to say ‘well, now he’s acting in good faith, so let’s go with it’? Of course not.
How is the Trump shutdown of the U.S. government any different - other than the fact that Trump is aided by an unprincipled entourage of White House aides and Congressional Republicans in his effort to hold millions of Americans hostage, not merely a handful of hapless bank employees and customers?
It is different only in degree. This is not legislating; this is not governing; this is not “Let’s Make A Deal” ... IT’S EXTORTION.
And extortion cannot be tolerated or rewarded.
8
Fundraising determines the success of politicians. Nancy Pelosi is Speaker of the House (and was minority leader up until the recent election) because she is the top fundraiser of all Democrats.
Trump must be one magical fundraiser for all his backers in the House and Senate.
1
@Steve Bolger Ah, that's why she's working so hard she has to go to Davos.Which foreign entity I'd providing funds for her?
If the Democrats cave on this, future presidents -- Republican and Democrat alike -- will use the shutdown tactic to get their way. In the long run, that's bad for both parties -- and America.
8
The shutdown is useful as the Republicans need time to come up with a game plan now that they lost control of the House.
4
Through sheer persistence and bellicosity Trump and the Republicans are chipping away at the polls and the will of the Dems.
Watching some of the Dems on the Sunday shows yesterday, it is amazing they have not put together a cogent couple of soundbites which will resonate with Americans, who by and large favor them:
1) What Trump has proposed is not a "negotiated" solution, it is something he and Republicans put together
2) Trump created the shutdown, ended DACA, ended TPS and created the "humanitarian crisis" at the border. Thus, these are not "concessions" to the Dems. These are ill conceived and failed policies that Trump should simply reverse. In the case of the shutdown, it is his responsibility as president to ensure government functions for the country.
3) There was just an election 2 months ago and Dems took back the House in a landslide based on healthcare and because Americans do not favor Trump's wall or his manufactured alarm with respect to the border.
4) Dems are for secure borders and a comprehensive immigration reform, and they are willing to study and negotiated how best to do that, not by simply and mindlessly "throwing" billions of taxpayer money at Trump's wall.
10
Maybe the GOP should offer to take back the trillion dollars it gave to the 1% and use that for the 6 billion it wants for the wall.
11
Push all they want, but:
1. No crisis, manufactured one,
2. Had two years to act, didn’t,
3. Democrats won the House, GOP didn’t,
4. National polls consistently show public is against the shutdown and against the Wall,
5. And against Trump,
6. No deal was offered, just pretend temporary protections for Dreamers,
7. Trump cannot con smart people who have morals and integrity,
8. I could go on....
18
Here is a big problem with caving to Trump's demand.
This is just the beginning.
The president is currently being led by the hard liners in his circle. And so he has been, and will continue to, push for extreme policies.
For instance, on immigration, the GOP party hard liners support the wall 100% and will never sign on to any plan that allows a path to citizenship for any illegal immigrant. This approach is not endorsed by the a majority of the American public, moderate Republicans or democrats.
He has been unable to pass his border and wall legislation when the republicans held all three branches of government and he is still unable now that democrats have the House.
So the only way forward for the president is through blackmail:
"Do what i say or else!"
With a president corned by having to appease to his hard line base compromise is off the table.
Soon entitlement reform, the ACA, and more issues will be addressed by this president and the republicans in the Senate.
If the president wins by using this blackmail, the next time we are at loggerheads over an important matter it will happen again, especially since our "crisis to crisis" method of funding government for months at a time is the new norm.
Common advise to new parents say to not give in the the tantrums of toddlers because once the child realizes he can "win" by acting out in this fashion, it will be a tool he will use moving forward.
Just say no to giving in to the tantrum.
Just say no to the toddler-in-chief.
6
It's time for all TSA employees to go on strike and show the White House and Republicans that the continued shutdown of the federal government over Trump's insistence on a border wall just won't fly.
12
It is time for our government to do something extraordinary that seems to have vanished in the smoke and fog of partisan politics: represent the people who elect you!
3
I'm glad I'm in the UK
How you haven't had riots and people are still turning up, unpaid for work, I don't know. In France and Italy, to name but two the streets would be on fire and here in the UK the newspapers would have gone berserk - whatever their political leanings.
How can the 'Leader of the Free World' be so tied up?
9
It’s inconvenient for us to march in the streets, and kind of cold outside. And we have a lot of binge watching to do.
1
@Richard. "Leader of the Free World". Hardly. He's a second rate carnival barker.
Even the most dysfunctional governments in Africa would not go this far and furlough 800,000 workers for this long. Is this what America has come to?
12
@Godfrey. Yep, we're becoming a nation of sheep. We are being sold to the Russians by comrade Trump and his lackeys.
@Godfrey It has when DJT became president . Reminds me of a former leader of Uganda who took it a step forward , murdering people who disagreed or displeased him . Right now he's murdering jobs ; same despotic ego .
1
The issue here, which needs to be focused on with laser-like clarity, is, whether the wall proposed by Mr. Trump is the best, most effective way to improve border security. In the absence of a specific plan that contains independent cost/benefit analyses, environmental impact reports, and security expert input, everything I've read (and, I read widely) maintains it is NOT.
Until there is objective proof that it is, and until Congress presents and debates the issue factually and transparently, the Wall should be off the table.
We are in a situation akin to a two-year-old having a protracted tantrum because it wants a loaded gun. It doesn't matter what "sweeteners" it offers, or whether it tells us it will no longer hold us hostage every night with the "going to bed" tantrums it's been exhausting us with. It doesn't matter if we've given in before and allowed out to have other inappropriate demands meet - the thing he's screaming now for is a VERY BAD idea. we should NOT give in to his demand for the gun.
Open the government, provide documentation, and let the decision be made.
Also, it would be very helpful if the Times and other "responsible" media would insert the term " down payment for" in front of "his wall". And, point out that the best estimates wet have so indicate the actual cost would be 4-6 times what he's demanding at the moment.
3
@Patricia
How similar your argument to what was being argued should have happened in the Kavanaugh Confirmation. Come up with some point in contention then propose endless debate to 'resolve' it before you can move forward with the matter. Not really gonna fool anyone with that again so might as well retire it in the Playbook.
The party activists in both parties are to blame for this stalemate. The very liberal on the left and the very conservative on the right dominate the political party machinery. This chasm is unsustainable over the long term in a government that requires significant compromise to work.
I don't think that the wall will work; it's probably a waste of money. But at $5 Billion it's not exactly a budget buster and may work in some limited instances. In any case, the wall is important to a significant portion of the Republican Party activists (and probably its rank and file). DACA is important to Democrats. There is your deal; a wall for a path to citizenship for DACA . But because of the fealty of party activists on both sides to more extreme positions - and the irrational desire to "win" the issue - prevents a reasonable compromise like this on this issue.
1
Let's be honest. Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats do not want a wall today, tomorrow or ever. They are more concerned with the welfare of illegal immigrants than our own citizens. President Trump is trying to compromise with them by allowing the Dreamers to stay longer in our country. Who knows. He may even allow them a legal path to citizenship. But the Democrats will not even meet him half way.
Many Americans want the border wall for safety and security reasons. We cannot continue having caravan after caravan arriving at our borders and allowing illegal immigrants entry to the detriment of our citizens. This seems what the liberals and Democrats want. We know little about those coming here illegally even though most are honest, hardworking people. We have laws that must be followed. It is not fair to allow automatic citizenship to those who break our laws while others fill out the necessary paperwork and arrive the lawful way. These people must return home and apply like others before them. Many are not willing to wait which is why we must have that much needed border wall. It is absolutely necessary and many of us applaud our president for taking this stand. He must remain firm and the Democrats must compromise too.
2
Trump's December 21, 2018 tweet:
"The Democrats, whose votes we need in the Senate, will probably vote against Border Security and the Wall even though they know it is DESPERATELY NEEDED. If the Dems vote no, there will be a shutdown that will last for a very long time. People don’t want Open Borders and Crime!"
Trump also admitted to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in the Oval Office that he, "would be proud to shut down the government."
This whole debacle is on the shoulders of Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell and Congressional Republicans. Full stop.
6
Remember when Feinstein got Trump to say he could "do DACA" only to have Trump walk it back when advised by McCarthy what that actually meant? This is a president who has no clue what's going on, other than he's singular mission to please radical right pundits such as Coulter and Limbaugh. Pence announces he and Dems have a deal, then Trump throws him and McConnell under the bus. McConnell should bring Trump's harebrained idea up for a vote on Wednesday, see it quickly dismissed, and then tell Trump to leave it to him to get it done. Sadly, nothing gets done if it doesn't meet with Coulter's and Limbaugh's approval. This is what the presidency has been reduced to. What's left? The Republican senators must end this horror by agreeing to wall funding and DACA. Trump votes it down, and the House and Senate override his veto. Of paramount importance is to stop the suffering.
2
The premises of this article - that the Trump party is on the offensive and cornering the Dems - are just partisan spin. They don't deserve the tone of seriousness given in this article.
3
I know my comments will be lost in the wilderness of 1300 plus comments but I think I should weigh in anyway. There are people on both sides of this argument generally divided by political party which is starting to become tiresome because both sides should be trying to get to the point of serious negotiations and not mired in political rhetoric. If one was honest about the issue border security is essential for all countries not just America other wise you do not have a country just an open land mass.
So let me offer a solution. The President should convene a meeting at the White House inviting the Vice President, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, the head of Homeland Security, and anyone else he deems necessary to the issue. The featured speakers should be the head of the Border Patrol, and members of his staff, the head of ICE and his staff. The purpose being to ask them what they need to secure our border, what will work for them and what won't, then give them the tools necessary to get the job done. This is not rocket science.
It is time our leadership started acting like adults and take their responsibilities as elected officials seriously. My other solution to this is to never vote for an incumbent if they can't do what they are elected to do. We also need term limits for Congress, and don't tell me about the ballot box, that doesn't work, if it did we wouldn't be in this mess, and don't give me the political rhetoric about the President everyone is to blame.
2
Since Democrats are the party of effective government, and Republicans are the party of less government, a shutdown is something Republicans would want. Thus, Republicans will always be 'blamed' for a shutdown.
The idea that the Democrats would ever shutdown the government in order to get some concession from Republicans is laughable. Republicans would simply say, "Great!"
Trump has claimed hostages. There should be no negotiation until they are released.
3
It is deeply disturbing when the President refers to human capital as commodities in negotiating his "deals," as evidenced in his latest proposal to end the shutdown. Let's be clear about Trump's lack of respect and regard for working people and his deep-seated racism inherent his proposals"
1. His shutdown holds 800,000 working people hostage;
2. His constant references to migrants approaching or at the southern border as riddled with rapists, drug dealers, terrorists;
3. His trade-off proposals to ensure the safe status of DACA in the US as commodities to make a deal;
4. His strong affirmation that amnesty for DACAs will only occur as part of a "much bigger deal;"
Trump's use of the term "deal" as between political parties in the Congress, or between the branches of government, or with foreign governments has largely replaced the term "agreement" - a kinder, more powerful and more dignified term. Drug dealers make deals; terrorists make deals; business people make deals. Government leaders negotiate agreements, hopefully for the benefit of the people. His "deals" do little or nothing in that regard. Haven't we had enough of the master of exploitation?
1
Given that the government has been shut down for 24 days, the moment it reopens Trump, McConnell, and their fellow Republican sticks-in-the-mud should be required to perform at least 576 hours of Community Service -- without pay.
5
The GOP has to understand that once they start to massively lie about such crucial issues as national security (by making their voters believe that a wall is an effective way to protect the southern border, or making their voters believe that Democrats are "open borders" whereas they've always actively supported fact-based border security, etc.), they're merely handing over the leadership of the party to extremist talking heads.
And once you do, you can't get anything done (except for tax cuts for yourself, of course ...) in Congress anymore.
Because getting something done means compromising.
You can't compromise if what you propose isn't fact-based at all, and if you constantly insult your political opponents and spread the worst lies about them.
The FIRST step to a compromise is to RESPECT your opponents, and to propose FACT-BASED policies that both parties can agree on.
A wall, obviously, isn't part of such policies at all.
That being said, Democrats being democrats, last spring they DID accept a bipartisan comprehensive immigration bill that included FULL funding of his wall ($25 billion), as the GOP has won the elections, AND they wanted to pass that bipartisan bill already since 2013, when Obama got it through the Senate.
As it's Ann Coulter that runs the show, ONE tweet of her was enough for Trump to reject it.
That's the very OPPOSITE of the "Art of the deal".
Trump NEVER got "good deals", because he doesn't know how to negotiate. And the GOP just follows him
2
So this is what it comes down to. The blame game. The Republicans had two years to get funding for the wall, but since they were in power, could not blame anyone but themselves or arcane rules that wouldn't sell. But now they have Democrats in one house, so we have the blame game and who cares if the Government is shut down!
There was a budget bill that passed in December near unanimously and Ann Coulter decided it is time to play politics and here we are!
Democrats need to make this point repeatedly, loudly and not give in to this kind of tactics. This is not negotiating. We don't negotiate with hostage takers, that too 800000 federal employees!
Alternatively fund the wall with a tax increase on those who make more than a million dollars per year, including corporations; and get a commitment in writing that Mexico will pay for it from Trump.
Make this loud and clear, every opportunity you get.
32
@Phil
Fact is, many Republicans strongly oppose the wall, because it has been shown to NOT be the most effective way to protect the southern border.
The district with the longest southern border wall lies in Texas (800 miles). Its Rep. is a Republican, called Hurd. This month, he went on tv shows explicitly explaining why he campaigned against a wall, continues to oppose it, as do his constituents.
THAT is why the GOP never even TRIED to pass a clean wall bill for two years, even though that bill only needed 50 Senators and they had 52.
And as the wall was an invention of Trump's campaign advisers, NOT his national security advisers (who have always opposed it too - including the four-star Generals in his cabinet (and that HE decided to hire) such as his Sec. of Defense), Trump himself never even TRIED to negotiate with his own party and get the wall done.
And now that Ann Coulter told him to shut down the government over the wall, he executes her orders (rather than executing/implementing already existing law, as is his constitutional duty ...) for one reason alone: if THIS is what will give his base the FEELING that he does has a real interest in the wall, then he'll do it.
It's all about ratings. Even when that means no longer paying border patrol agents and as such actively weakening the southern border.
Now the "strong border" party made its base believe that THAT is how miraculously borders will nevertheless get stronger, as if Dems would ever accept such tactics
3
I do NOT understand why the media has not done investigative reporting on Mitch McConnell. He has refused to bring to the Senate the many bills passed by the House. Since when did the Constitution give one man the right to sabotage the legislative process. HE is the cause of the shutdown. If he allowed the Senate to work with the House, they could get a funding bill passed. If Trump vetoes it, then over ride the veto. Bipartisanship is not a four letter word. If the House sends back to the Senate the bill they already passed and he refuses to it allow to go to vote, this whole mess belongs to him. Can anyone say RECALL?
42
@ExPatMX His wife is in the Trump cabinet. If he goes against King Donald, then her job will be in jeopardy.
If McConnell has simply put the original bill through, Congress could have overridden Trump's veto. This would have been over a long time ago. This is squarely on the shoulders of Mitch McConnell.
51
The Senate is going to pass a bill that reopens the government, funds border security, and provides temporary protections for DACA recipients. The ball will then be the Democrats court. Once again, Democrats will turn their backs on DACA recipients. Last year, Trump offered citizenship for all DACA recipients and the dems turned it down. They will do it again, and the dems will be forever known as the "do-nothing" party that turned their backs on the dreamers. But, on the other hand, Trump and the Republicans seem to be the only ones trying to address the DACA issue.
2
@johnny Last year Trump *said he would refuse to sign* a bill that gave DACA recipients a path to citizenship, after previously indicating he would sign it. If I recall correctly, he changed his mind because Presidents Coulter and Limbaugh weighed in, just like they did this time.
4
It must be convenient to live in a fact-free zone.
3
@johnny....What a joke. Republicans addressing the DACA issue? Trump offers there years of temporary relief to DACA, when in fact there is already an injunction in place against Trump's repeal of DACA; an injunction that the Supreme Court has already refused to hear. First Trump's creates the DACA crisis by revoking the Obama DACA executive order, and then he offers a three year temporary exemption of his own order canceling DACA, a canceling of DACA which he can't enforce anyway because of the standing injunction; meaning he has offered exactly nothing. Someone would have to be completely out to lunch to believe that Rebuplicans have done anything positive with regard to DACA.
5
Here's the deal I'd like to see Speaker Pelosi offer:
In exchange for $5B in new wall funding, Trump authorizes the IRS to release his complete tax returns for the past five years.
Trump likes to say that building the wall is just fulfilling a campaign promise. Let's play along and help him fulfill two promises at one go :)
17
@American Abroad - Trump will fight to the death to keep his tax returns under lock. They'll only show what we already know - he lost all his money decades ago and has relied upon Russian cash to keep his fraudulent organization afloat.
5
The real fix IS NOT Republican-style immigration reform.
The Wall is "a show" to divert attention from corporate-sponsored immigration plan. Kirstjen Nielson finished the public comment period on new procedures for filling the Lottery System quota.
Immigration Services will award THIS YEAR'S pathways to citizenship to holders of masters degrees or higher FIRST. Meaning that, effectively, it won't be a Lottery System. The "golden tickets" of Stephen Miller's Merit System are being awarded by slight-of-hand.
This autocracy is by-passing Congress. Our citizens, both graduating and holding higher skilled positions, will have REAL COMPETITION FROM ABROAD. The original proposed Republican Reforms wanted to increase that annual quota from 85,000 to 195,000. For that, even this autocracy needs to force Congress to bargain it away.
The Republicans represent corporate interests and they will turn America into a nation of more and more temporary foreign workers. Those ADDITIONAL visas were 15,000 in 2017 and 60,000 in 2018. On the eve of his election, Trump promised "I want tremendous numbers of people to come in. And we’re going to have that big, beautiful door in the wall".
Everyone, but those who live off stock dividends, will be in a "tremendous" labor pool. That's where The Wall really leads. A bulletproof national employment database and criminal penalties for employers is the only real solution.
10
Trump, McConnell and the GOP aren't interested in negotiating in good faith. They are only interested in political gamesmanship.
If the Republicans were serious about negotiating with Democrats they'd meet privately and open the government immediately.
Democrats should demand that the government shutdown end before any talks resume about immigration.
20
Senate Majority Leader McConnell has been yammering that he wouldn't bring a bill up for a vote that couldn't get Mr. Trump's signature. Well a bill that can't pass the Senate or the House is not going to get Mr. Trump's signature, so why not bring up the real budget that both sides of the aisle will support.
If Mr. Trump had a good policy, he wouldn't have to take hostages to get a bill through.
10
The current immigration negotiations are largely unprincipled. Trump’s propsed policies are purposely unclear and he merely seeks the political upper hand.
Immigration policy has been negotiated for many years. And amnesty and border security have been fundamental issues under debate.
Now, immigration is an unprincipled issue for the bargaining table. The right to citizenship for millions is a political football. The fate of immigration policy has become a question of heads or tales. Moral obligations have fallen by the wayside. The fate of illegals, refugees, and dreamers are no longer matters of principle. They are simply bargaining chips.
4
I saw Trump marked MLK day by visiting the memorial long enough for a photo, say a hundred seconds or so. Trump’s wall is a monument to racism, plain and simple. Trump has no immigration plan as this article title suggests. How many news cycles ago was it about Mexico paying for the wall?
12
But, dyeus...it was windy.....his fake hairhat could've easily blown off if he had stayed outside any longer.
9
It would be best to force Trump to declare his national emergency to fund his wall thru military and other disaster relief funds. This will set a precedent that will allow Democrats in 2020 (after they retake the White House) to declare a national emergencies on our epidemic of gun violence, our disgraceful lack of national health, minimum-wage, climate change legislation and all the other things Democrats have been unable to get through with the normal process. So do it Trump just do it.
12
Wait, the Republicans wouldn't give Trump 5.7 billion dollars for his wall and now they're claiming it's the Democrats fault? They ask Trump last year for detail about how the money would be spent. Trump has no idea how the money will be spent. He did not provide that detail.
15
It is a terrible precedent to let anyone shut down the gov't until they get what they want. It is not how our gov't was meant to operate and ultimately no system can function this way. Wall or no wall, no deal until the gov't is opened.
9
It is so very beautiful to behold that every time Trump finds an out from his disastrous shutdown, Coulter slams it shut. With a single tweet. Just beautiful.
A close second is Giuliani throwing Trump under the bus. Then, about his knowledge of the Stormy payments, now, about the Russian deal that continued even when Trump won the presidency.
It’s almost as if there is a contest between Coulter and Giuliani as to who could skewer Trump the slowest, the longest, and make him suffer the most.
7
The GOP, led by Trump and McConnell, are engaging in legislative extortion. It's that simple. They are holding the U.S. government and 800,000 furloughed workers hostage to achieve policy goals they know they are (and, for the last 2 years, have been) unable achieve via traditional legislative and democratic processes.
The fact that the media and analysts are allowing the GOP to frame the issue as a "negotiation" is simply shameful. Trump and McConnell are destroying the democratic institutions of this country for their own personal and partisan objectives. This should be unacceptable to every American, but our current divisive politics--encouraged and inflamed by the media--makes people unable to see reason. We all need to step back and start seeing the forest for the trees.
8
"Wily deal maker" or Traitor? Mitch McConnell has become addicted to subverting the Constitution. Between his Merrick Garland non-confirmation maneuver and the pre-approval subservience to Trump on the shutdown, he's walking quite a fine line upholding his oath of office, or not. The Republicans will rue the day they nominated Trump and supported McConnell's games.
11
The President has put hundreds of thousands of federal employees out of work, and hundreds of thousands of others are forced to work without being paid.
He owns it and is proud, as the people he has put out of work are advised to hold garage sales, or offer to do chores for their neighbors. Of course, the federal workers forced to work without pay will be hard pressed to make time for doing those chores.
But the President decided to put people out of work. And he's proud to own that.
End the shutdown. Then let's see the House and Senate do their jobs and work on realistic legislation on immigration reforms and border security. Then let's see the President do his job and sign that.
13
Once again the issues are not being addressed, just the conflict. The reality of governing is turned into a soap opera with no basis in the core problem. Does that help sales? It doesn't help our country or it's citizens see clearly.
15
@PatriotDem: Welcome to the perpetual paralysis of the nonstop election campaign.
2
I have said multiple times before and I will say it again. Democrats in the house/Speaker Pelosi should table and pass the 2013 comprehensive immigration reform bill that passed the Senate, but was not brought up for a vote even by republicans in the House.
It would pass again easily, and if it was brought up for a vote in the Senate, more than likely would receive more than enough votes to override any veto.
It deals with immigrants, and grants them a path to citizenship, deals with border security (20+ billion dollars), and does corner republicans, but actually deals with the issue long term with fixes, instead of just more temporary adjustments.
Then it is up to the press to truthfully show that republicans continue to be the obstructionists to any reform on any issue, and are merely chest thumping.
34
The Democrats need to make a public counter-offer to show they are willing to negotiate. Here is one possibility.
1. President Trump should immediately re-open the government by supporting (signing) the appropriation bills already approved by the Congress.
2. Once he does that, the Democrats pledge $5 billion dollars for a barrier wall under the following conditions:
a. PERMANENT protection for DACA (and TPS), without including a path to citizenship (but their children will become citizens).
b. Agree to a bill that permanently ends government shutdowns so that American citizens cannot be held hostage to the particular desires of one party or the other.
c. The formation of a bipartisan committee, composed of those that are serious about immigration reform (not Freedom Part types), to present proposals concerning comprehensive immigration reform that the President will pledge to support under the condition that the proposals have clear bipartisan support. Such proposals could include a path to citizenship for DACA and other immigrants who have spent their lives in America in a positive and constructive way (no serious criminal history).
16
@Michael Numan
FYI: that's what Democrats did last spring, remember? They even offered $25 billion for his wall.
He flip-flopped and rejected it at the very last minute. Why? Ann Coulter tweeted that it included the bipartisan Dream Act - bill that 80% of the American people and a majority of GOP voters support.
A real leader, in that case, stands up against the extremist fringe and pass such a bill anyhow.
As the wall is merely a campaign slogan to fire up extremists to start with, Trump decided to drop his wall and go with Ann Coulter.
That's what bad negotiators and weak leaders do.
Then, he massively loses the midterm elections (biggest voter gap in THREE decades), so of course, now he doesn't have the political capital nor the votes anymore to get money for his wall.
THAT is how a democracy works.
And of course Republicans will refuse your point 2b, even though such a bill exists in most other countries, making no longer implementing existing law criminal.
So the ONLY way to make sure that the GOP doesn't shut down the government during the next two years again, is to refuse to any negotiations during a shutdown AND to never ever include the new law project that the GOP shut the government down over in ANY future compromise bill again.
That's the only way they'll understand that attaching a highly partisan bill to an appropriations bill will NEVER work.
Apart from that, Democrats do have a political mandate to refuse ANY money for a wall, anyhow ...
1
@Michael. Is it possible to create a provisional bill like this? Is there any precedent for it?
It’s an interesting idea. As someone who refuses to negotiate with hostage-takers, and who thinks that the wall Trump wants is an ineffective waste of money that not even the Republican-controlled Congress would support, I would actually vote for this. It’s creative thinking, at any rate.
2
@Ana, in general, I agree with you, but 2b makes this a completely different ballgame. And while Mitch and the GOP would fight this with all their might, I think public perception has changed enough in the last month that you could get Congress to show enough approval to overrule any Presidential veto on the subject.
1
Dems should give in on the wall. Yes the wall sends the wrong message, but it's Trump's message and he's already sent it. By all accounts, the wall will be ineffective anyway, so let it go. Even if it allows Trump to say he won. He's going to say that no matter what, so let that go too. In return, they should insist on raising the debt limit to forestall any more shenanigans this year, accept the three year DACA deal Trump is offering, and get anything else they think they can get. Then work like hell to elect a Democratic president and congress.
4
Absolutely disagree - give in now and it will only keep happening. No way, no how.
2
@MikeBronx
Uh ... you seem to have forgotten that they just massively won the elections (biggest voter gap in three decades), so can you please give ANY good reason to now vote for a wall ... ?
The proposed $25 billion for a wall inside a bipartian comprehensive immigration reform bill last year. Trump refused.
Why would they now forget about who they are and why they won the elections, and becomes coach, teaching him HOW to negotiate and obtain bills from Congress ... ?
Why would that EVER make any sense ... ?
And then we're not even talking about the most important issue here: the shutdown. That strongly hurts the country and its safety, so it's UNACCEPTABLE.
And the only way to make sure that Trump will do this time and again, during the next two years, is to give in to all his wishing now that he shut down the government for a month.
What will be next? Repealing Obamacare? Because that was also one of his campaign slogans that he then forgot about. Or deporting 11 million undocumented people.
If next month he shuts down the government for two months, will you also advise Democrats to now repeal Obamacare, or start financing the deportation of 11 million people, even though they campaigned on the exact opposite and massively won the elections?
That would destroy our country, AND be committing political suicide, of couse ...
No giving into the wall. You may think that “it’s only $6 billion”. BUT that wall will not stop the majority of illegals who come in through US airports, then never go home. Also it is not needed at the border where most of the drug traffic is entering through APPROVED border crossings in vehicles not presently being checked.
We will pay for many more border agents, more immigration judges, drones and the best technology, but we will not pay for a useless wall to be built by Trump’s contractor friends.
That said, even if Trump gets the $6 billion down payment in wall money he demands, what about next year? He’ll pull another shutdown, extort more money for the wall. MIT has estimated that the wall could cost $30 billion, others say up to $100 billion. And the illegals will continue to stream in through our airports.
No, Donald. Extortion only works if one has a legitimate cause, if it is not a campaign promise to a 1/3 minority of American. voters who collapse in bigoted hysterics every time Trump tweets out untrue statistics. He does not even show a plan to support the financial details of his demands. He says, “Trust me.” Sorry, Don, we’ll skip the kool aid.
I would reject the deal. Trump isn't negotiating. Trump is restating his original goal with the promise to fix the problems he created. There wouldn't be a shutdown if Trump had accepted the original Senate compromise which passed almost unanimously BEFORE Democrats took over the House. Dreamers meanwhile wouldn't be at risk of anything if Trump hadn't first reversed Obama's policy.
No deal Trump. The Trump shutdown continues.
28
Please remember when you go to vote in 2020 that the GOP made tax breaks that mostly benefited the wealthy and made our deficit worse because of it. They are no longer the watchdogs for our deficit and spending. The GOP has abandoned these traditional old fashioned policies which means they want us to pay for a wall we can't afford. Watch out, the poor and middle Americans are going to have to pay higher taxes in the future for our Health care and basic needs. We will remember.
30
Trump is directly responsible for exacerbating the partisan divide in this country. It becomes us as a democracy to find compromise, but Trump has tied his wall to his future and the shutdown. Democrats and the majority of Americans do not want the wall and do not want to see our country's reputation and future diminished even more with a second Trump term. So the partisan fight will continue and civil unrest will increase. Such a tragedy with so many unintended consequences.
7
The President is nudging Democrats and the phrase "corner Democrats" implies a strongarm tactic. No one expects the Democrats to accept Mr. Trump's first offer on the immigration-wall combo, but it is a very good step forward. Those who say it is a non-starter are too partisan and not worthy of the men and women that elected them to office. Martin Luther King, Jr. knew how to overcome the prejudice of the Democrats. Unfortunately, Mr. Trump is more like the other Mr. King.
6
The wall is an infrastructure project. I thought democrats were all in for infrastructure spending?
5
@jaco
in·fra·struc·ture
/ˈinfrəˌstrək(t)SHər/
noun
noun: infrastructure; plural noun: infrastructures
the basic physical and organizational structures and facilities (e.g. buildings, roads, power supplies) needed for the operation of a society or enterprise.
how is it an infrastructure project?
3
@jaco....The term infrastructure applies to something that serves a useful purpose.
3
@jaco-I guess your idea of "infrastructure" differs from most educated people's definition of infrastructure.
1
Note to Nancy: Take the high road, give him the five billion because it will be a Pyrrhic victory. The wall will never come to fruition and the Democrats will have at least two years to push a permanent deal for the dreamers. In the meantime, the House will have the moral authority to bring this presidential spectacle to an end. This isn’t about who is right it’s about the nearly one million workers who are off the job. Take care of them first.
5
@Linny
Not quite what I meant when I said "Pyrrhic victory". I said it would be one for the Republicans.
It will destroy the United States as a democratic republic. Don't you see? Right now the President is essentially ruling through proclamation; he "proclaims" that he will veto, and the bill stops even being voted on. But he hasn't actually officially vetoed the bill, and it hasn't been brought up to vote, or for formal debate, or even to formal motion.
The entire structure of the government is being ignored. That means that any recourse the opposition might have, like vetoing the President's veto, a filibuster, even a formal, on-the-record debate, isn't happening. The actual process of governing the country isn't happening, because the President is commanding that it doesn't.
At this moment there is no actual difference between President Trump, dictator, and President Trump, president of the republic. If the Republicans decide to "win" here, it will destroy the country as it was.
That is a Pyrrhic victory. One that costs so much it is worse than defeat.
5
He'll just up the stakes next time. That's what bullies and blackmailers do, yes?
1
Children are running our government. It's disheartening to see our President and our Congress so invested in their political stance that it's all about winning, not about America's future. Negotiation and compromise are necessary, and that's how adults exist in a civil society.
How does it hurt Democrats to accept a 3 year DACA program, during which time a real immigration plan can be hammered out? In three years, Trump will be gone, God willing. It would be a good trade for an allocation of funds for a "barrier", as he now calls it, that could be strategic, but not a wall. Why must all these items need to be lumped into the same agreement? Let's take them one at a time and stop punishing innocent government employees.
1
@Daphne A "real immigration plan" will not happen now or 3 years from now. If it were possible it would have happened years ago. The immigration hardliners are OK with a wall, but they know it isn't necessary so they will give up nothing to achieve it.
1
Has anyone asked Donald when the "crime and drugs" became a crisis? If it was only after the Democrats won the House, then it's a political comment.
If crime and drugs were a problem before the last election, why didn't the president press the Republican Congress for relief?
Watching McConnell squirm under criticism is less satisfying than seeing the government get back to work for us, the taxpayers.
11
Mitch Mcconnell only does what benefits Mitch McConnell and his financial situation.
May we all see the day where he pays for his betrayal of country.
25
The master deal maker prided himself so much about his brilliant intellect in knowing when to walk away from a proposed deal. He apparently is clueless about next steps when someone walks away from his proposal.
Perhaps that will be discussed in his next book.
4
Just because the GOP call an offer serious and rational doesn't mean it isn't full of fallacious arguments and rhetoric, making it completely invalid.
Since this man took office, he has practiced pulling the rug out from under various sectors of our population. There is nothing rational about attacking random, vulnerable populations, then offering to stop attacking one in order to build a wall, then using the rejection of an irrational deal to attack the people who are taking a stand and creating a clear boundary that says stop abusing your power, making people suffer all because you don't have absolute power and we as a nation do not agree that the greatest need for the safety and security of our country is to build a wall.
It makes no sense for a person saying they want a nation to be secure to take actions that threaten our security, that make people with no power - from DACA to federal employees to the victims of fire disasters, to the people who own land along the border having it condemned and taken from them - suffer because he creates a moral panic around a wall.
TSA agents are not being paid, nor are the Coast Guard and more. He generated a security threat for a congress woman, how is that supporting security?
The man is irrational, his supporters are compliant. His tactic is to keep people thrown.
What's next? It's going to be bad, he'll blame "them". Truth is it was always on the table, whatever destructive thought, feeling and belief shows up. Because this is a...
9
Sorry, but I thought bills had to originate in the House. How can McConnell introduce a Trump proposal directly to the Senate for a vote?
6
@A. Brown
You thought wrong. Bills can originate in either Chamber. There is a process called Reconciliation, that is used when two different bills, one originating in the Senate and one in the House, seek to do the same thing.
Reality Check with government shut down seems life goes on. Guess we dont need all government we have. Just like manufactoring no one misses 20 million jobs pay living wage. But let check stop for those in congress an house an will see real drama unfold. Maybe just maybe our government will see reality in cutting jobs pay living wage .When realize those jobs pay taxs that support our government. Zero accountabilty is real reason we have problems.
1
I’m tired of Bills in which multiple, often unrelated items are included. This procedure should be disallowed. It isn’t “smart” because it leaves a bad taste. No one wants a wall. There is no reason to trust Trump’s promises. No one wants ego to drive government. No one wants to be manipulated. Dems need to discuss why they want to reject McConnell’s proposal - not just demand an end to the shutdown before they will talk.
3
The only package Democrats should accept, and remain consistent with their insistence on not negotiating while government is held hostage, is a package including a law outlawing shutting the government down like this.
5
Trump: Can I have money for a wall?
Democrats: No.
Trump: How about now?
The President operates on the same negotiating wave length as a child begging for cookies. If he just behaves obnoxiously enough, the adults will eventually give him what he wants. What Democrats need is a good switch.
8
The shutdown has cost more than the wall already and the damage is increasing exponentially. The wall is basically a waste of money, but it wastes less at this point than continuing the shutdown.
While Trump's offer of extending daca and tps is just giving back what he took away, it does get those people clear to the next presidency when real solutions might be looked for.
Not negotiating with a gun to their heads is certainly a valid argument, particularly with the debt ceiling coming up again, but I think trump may be able to grasp that this particular gun backfires and be wary of pulling it again. On balance I think the dems should accept the bad deal and hammer trump with the facts that Mexico hadn't paid for it and it hasn't made any difference at all to the 'emergency', right up until 2020. Or impeachment.
2
Pelosi has arrived on the ultimate strategy in dealing with our "president." Ignore his rants and demands until he ends the siege on government workers. Period. Without that, no deal. Schumer is correct. If they rollover to his wall demand, he's just gonna target another innocent group for punishment the next time around.
7
I’m far from a constitutional expert but something doesn’t sound constitutionally right here. If the speaker of the Senate refuses to bring up any legislation unless he is assured that the President will accept it, then is he not acting contrary to both the spirit and plain text of the document.
I’m sure that in China and Russia things work this way; that is, no one dares bring something up for a vote that they know will not be approved by the head executive (read dictator). If the authors of our constitution would have wanted the Senate only to act when there was a tacit pre-approval from the executive branch, then I think the constitution would read quite differently.
Perhaps it’s time test the Supreme Court on this?
6
Grover Norquist's vision for the US is just over the horizon.
3
The Republican party solely represents anti-People and anti-democratic and anti-government values. There is no basis for negotiation.
Trump and his Republicans are responsible for not paying the federal workers, not the Democrats. These federal workers must do what private sector workers do when attacked by the Republican party; get unemployment benefits.
The People must sacrifice and Pelosi must not give an inch. It's the only way to win.
2
Congress has ALREADY passed the laws that stipulate that the head of the Executive HAS to pay the paychecks of border patrol agents.
What Trump and the GOP are doing here is wanting to RENEGOTIATE that law, and make it conditional.
From now on, they say, we will only pay the paychecks and invoices of people working for the government ... IF Congress passes certain NEW law, ON TOP of the laws that already stipulate that IF we hire those employees and contractors, and we sign those contracts as federal government, then of course we have to respect those contracts.
Their idea to make the implementation of existing law entirely conditional and dependent on whether Congress can pass certain news laws or not, is CRAZY.
You cannot possibly obtain a stable, well-functioning government and country in this way.
It's also for this reason that the Constitution made the Executive branch of government, whose job it is to execute existing law, legally entirely independent from the Legislative branch, because if you don't, you literally have a banana republic.
So this no longer about the wall or immigration reform AT ALL.
By refusing the bipartisan appropriations bill and making signing it now conditional on a totally new law project, the GOP is actively and deliberately undermining our safety and the constitutional separation of the branches of government.
ANY patriot, politician or citizen, should radically reject this, and support Democrats refusal to negotiate during a shutdown.
1
The government shutdown's primary driver is clearly our inept, ill-informed, bullish president. Yet Democrats who don't know how to argue and win are perpetuating shutdown havoc for government workers, people served by government, and our economy.
Democrats must educate a wider majority than it now possesses of the sheer folly of expanding walls covering 650 miles along our southern border. Most Americans don't appreciate that our security needs there can be better met by virtual technology, because the issue of border barriers hasn't been adequately vetted by Congressional or formal public investigation.
With one well-run, fact-based, televised spectacle or two, Dems can openly explore inexpensive and effective virtual "walls", counter Trump's destructive folly, and expose Republican hypocrisy in supporting a border solution they never backed with public hearings . . . unless it's no longer possible to win the public consensus they need to end this shutdown with appeals to truth and reason, and to so-called professional journalism beholden to false notions of fairness, objectivity, and balance.
Questions: Where did the $5.7B number come from? What kind of a wall and where will it be built? What of the land owners whose land traverses the border. Does the $5.7B include buying that land away from them? Does it include the legal fees likely to be incurred when some land-owner refuse to sell and their land must be seized? WHERE will this wall be built?
No, this isn't even about a wall. This is about an insecure President who creates chaos, is petrified about what some radio hosts might say about him and who is quoted as saying that the only thing that matters is what happens today, not what happens after he's gone.
2
@Laurence Berk The fact that your questions surely echo among so many Americans means that we are conducting a debate without facts. Our so-called professional journalists want to report on the spectacle of a power fight more than on the facts of border security. We already have a wall, built the last time Republicans had enuf power to do it. Its length is about 650 selective miles. Trump wants at least another 1,000 miles.
So it's not just about "an insecure President". It's about the basics our democracy depends upon--an educated electorate and a truth-based media that doesn't merely give power to the side with the biggest emotional appeal.
1
I can not think of a more perfect symbol for the contemporary GOP than the current “offer”; a bill that provides protection for dreamers they arbitrarily unprotected in the first place, in exchange for them getting a useless vainity project for stump speaches. Cruelty power plays combined with some legislative theatrics to play to our base fears of outsiders.
1
@Tj....Not to mention there is a standing injunction against Trump's order to revoke DACA; an injunction which the Supreme Court has refused to hear. Meaning, even if you ignore that Trump caused the DACA problem in the first place, because the injunction remains in place, he has offered exactly nothing.
Federal workers who aren't paid should stay home. That would be a real shutdown. Blackmail seems to be the only thing McConnell and Trump understand. So be it!
3
I think the Democrats should vote for $5.7 billion for enhancements to border security. More technology to stop drugs from being smuggled, more immigration judges, better systems to ensure that visitors do not overstay their visas. Anything that will enhance border security. They should also bar any funding for Trump's wall. That way the Republicans lose the ability to claim Democrats are somehow soft on illegal immigration. Make this about the wall.
3
The Republicans aren’t renowned for their sense of self-preservation. By trying to pin Trump’s extortion racket on the Dems, they are pushing on a limp string, not a battering ram.
Instead they should be pushing McConnell to put to the vote a clean bill to end the shutdown. That would easily pass with a veto-proof majority. Trump can then tell his base he fought the good fight and escape the ire of his rabid critics who call a pale offer of a 3-year hiatus in deportation an “amnesty”.
Clearly Trump needs a veto-proof bill, because any action he takes, however mild, will infuriate his base. Without his base Trump has nothing to offer and will be forced to resign.
Maybe the GOP think now is the moment to move on to a Pence presidency. But if not, a veto-proof bill to end the shutdown is the straightforward way to maintain Trump as President.
1
It' s Kabuki right now. We have to go through this "...paired bills..." charade. If by some chance 8 Dems support Mitch, then everything will go to Conference Committee where there can be real deal-making.
If the SEnate Dems block this, then in another week or two there will have to be negotiations.
1
Trump’s only form of negotiating is “Make Demands”. Now the “Party of No” is stuck between a rock and an hard place, either obey Trump or their Donors.
1
Here's what the GOP doesn't get:
1. A responsible politician does NOT want "compromises" about whether or not the WH will pay the border patrol agents that were already hired. They were hired, their contracts signed, and Congress passed the law that mandated the WH to hire them. That law is EXISTING law, so as long as it isn't repealed, it HAS to be implemented.
So when yesterday Pence told Wallace that they now decided to launch the "legislative process" about a wall, that's all fine.
During legislative processes about a new law, EXISTING law continues to exist and HAS to be implemented.
So no, you do NOT compromise border patrol's paychecks. It's just irresponsable governance to do this.
2. In a democracy, a compromise has to be EARNED.
The party that accepts to give up some if its promises when voting for a new bill, is doing the party that asks them to do so a FAVOR.
In order to obtain that favor, you need to first of all TREAT them with RESPECT. Describe their positions accurately, when talking to the media. Don't lie about your political opponents.
Then start looking for common ground, not by talking among yourselves but by talking to your opponents, knowing that IF that doesn't exist, you, who want that new bill and compromise, will have to BUILD it, patiently and carefully, through diplomacy.
THAT is how Obama obtained his big legislative victories, including the bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill that the Senate passed with 68 votes in 2013.
3
Oh, come on.
The Republicans couldn't deliver the wall to THEMSELVES during the two years they held both houses of Congress, and the government shutdown occurred before Democrats took the House gavel.
And yet, once more, Republicans howl that the Democrats refuse to clean up yet anther colossal Republican mess; that Democrats won't save Republicans from themselves.
This is all on the Republicans, McConnell especially.
Every single bit of it.
Everyone knows that, including those who refuse to admit it.
8
Disappointed in this analysis. How can you negotiate with someone that says i will keep the government closed unless you do what i say?
6
This shallow and superficial man now is seeking a monument to his "winning" ways. This 5 billion wall demand has nothing to do with security of this country, paralyzing the government is more a threat to well being of its citizens than imperfect border protection.
2
I assume that the majority of Americans would relish the thought of a do-over election - or maybe it should be called a revolution? Speaking as someone who is thankful to be a Canadian, how do you put up with all of this?
2
Let’s hear from the House reps and Senators from Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. Do they want the Wall? McConnell’s decision should force them to go on record. And, the ranchers and Native People whose lands will be confiscated in order to build the wall, have they been notified?
3
This is hostage taking, pure and simple. As we like to say in the U.S.: never negotiate with terrorists. If we give in to this, Trump and others (including Democrats) will be encouraged to do it again. Open the government first, then negotiations are possible.
2
What is the point? It’s certainly not DACA. It’s that the President should not hold the American people hostage for a vanity project like the wall. I would say campaign promise, but even his base seems to have forgot that “Mexico’s going to pay for it.” Trump said he was proud to own the shutdown, and he wouldn’t blame
the Democrats. Let them keep at his, ha, ha, word. The sad thing is that a true catastrophe may occur before Trump sees just how wrong he is.
Government workers need better Unions. This is a lock out. I would add if you give in to a child’s tantrum you’re only going to get more tantrums.
3
From watching television, I have learned this mantra of negotiators: "The US government does not negotiate with terrorists." Trump's demand for a wall on our Southern border while he holds 800,000 federal workers hostage is the act of a terrorist.
What has Trump learned from watching television?
To kowtow to the rages of Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity.
4
The Dems need to make it clear to the nation that this shutdown is all Trump and he needs to own it, as do any GOP that enable him. Trump manufactured the fake immigration crisis merely to justify his goal of fulfilling his throw away campaign promise for a "wall". Then he manufactured the end of DACA protections to hold out as an "offer" to extort the Dems for what he took away? LOL. This is a bad reality show and it needs to end. Now.
2
Pelosi has made the same mistake that "Little Mario" (since promoted by Trump to "Beautiful Mario") made during the 2016 Republican primary race - playing Trump's game against Trump. That is a bad idea.
You should not try to act as a Three Card Monte dealer, unless you are one. Trump is, Pelosi is not.
Trump will soon be swallowing Pelosi down whole - just like the snake he is.
Donald Trump is an unfortunate accident. Of all of the mistakes that he has made, the Shutdown is one which will have long lasting consequences and do the most damage. Nancy Pelosi is doing the right thing. It is all important to insist that this president act in the best interest of the People. It is important to remember who started the Shutdown and why. He has the "power" let him act like our president for once. This is not a game.
Nancy and Schumer should publicly remind Trump and McConnel that they offered 25 billion for permanent protections. But Trump rejected the deal because of Miller and the Freedom Caucus. The dems should accept the deal with permanent protections after the government opens.
18
@dba
Yes. Isn't it odd that Nancy and Schumer once offered $25 billion but now will not approve $5 billion.
4
@William Case. Because the $25B didn’t include a wall, of course. Democrats are happy to agree to improving border security. Even a Republican-controlled Congress thought the wall was a stupid idea and wouldn’t approve it.
1
Accepting that deal means too many special interests of Democrat politicians will not be taken care of. That is why it is dead.
Something the shutdown has made apparent is just how fragile the middle class has become. Federal workers have what should be good paying middle class jobs. However, we are now seeing a devastating effect on them as the result of missing a paycheck.
So much for the American Dream.
25
@jeff The American dream was always one of greed. You wanted what that other guy had. It seems to me it is the guy not the dream that has changed. The guy who gets the American dream is no longer a middle class member but now this guy is a member of the upper class. They are succeeding in amassing the middle classes wealth. The tax laws rewrite and who pays for government? Middle class. Who owns 90% of the wealth in America? Not the middle class! There is an American dream; however is it attainable for the middle class?
1
Poll after poll has indicated that the majority of Americans do not support a wall. Also, funding for said wall would surely come from American tax dollars.
Any politician who wants Americans to support an infrastructure Americans indicate they don’t want to pay for is obviously not working for the people, but for themselves.
The shutdown is not the fault of “both sides” if one side is doing their job in representing Americans (and defending their view and values) against another side that is clearly self-serving.
59
Dems should stand their ground. Trump is holding federal employees hostage. What will stop him the next time he has yet another tantrum and has another shutdown to get what he wants?
48
@katherinekovach
Precisely the fact that Democrats refuse to negotiate, today.
That will show the GOP that they will never ever obtain ANYTHING by shutting down a government.
It's the message that Obama had to send to Ted Cruz in 2013. They remembered it for five long years.
Now Trump has to learn the same lesson all over again.
And he will.
An appropriations bill funds the implementation of ALREADY existing law for the next year.
Each time Trump decides to attach a highly partisan, NEW law project to such a bill and then stops fulfilling his constitutional duty of implementing/executing existing law, that new law project will by definition have become TOXIC, and NEVER EVER be part of a future compromise again, even not AFTER Trump signs the appropriations bill and opens the government again.
That's how he and Ann Coulter will know that shutdowns don't work and as a consequence aren't even worth trying.
They only make the president look weak, all while terribly damaging the country.
So it's simply bad governance, period.
1
Democrats are not going to give the Republicans the majority in the House they need to pass anything that Mitch pitches as a Trump plan - temporary fixes offered by Trump for his useless wall aren't a compromise, they're a nothingberder. McConnell will fail, and he'll go back to Trump and say your way didn't work. Now I'm doing it MY WAY. The only way to solve this impasse is to open the government again funding necessary operations, while months of negotiations - true negotiations - about comprehensive immigration reform and "border security" occur. Trump needs to be totally kept out of the mix. McConnell could have done this a month ago. This shut down is on him as much as on Trump.
37
@Jan N: McConnell has dug the US into a hole that could become its grave.
1
We Americans don’t buy compromises that aren’t compromises. The President obviously cannot define that word and neither can his cohort McConnell. Birds of a feather those two: vultures!
35
Trump has actually accomplished a lot if you include: shutting down the government and taking complete responsibility for it publicly; separating kids from parents traumatizing the kids for life; starting a trade war which has hurt US consumers; destroying alliances with allies that have taken decades to build; expressing admiration for autocrats; claiming ISIS is completely defeated; building a southern wall that Mexico was going to pay for sparing US taxpayers the expense, denying the fact of global warming which threatens our kids; rolling back regulations to protect our air and water... Gee, you know I can't stop coming up with all the wonderful accomplishments our illustrious president has presided over. What a great man!
38
Mr. Trump seems to live in his own fictitious world, manufacturing chaos, and jeopardizing the country's people, economy, and security. We don't see any true empathy from from this president who models himself after cold Russan leaders and if anyone dies as a direct result of the unnecessary government shutdown that he started and upholds, he will be responsible for their death.
14
If anything is conceded over this government shutdown, the next shutdown will commence when the US arrives at its current debt ceiling later this year.
14
Mitch McConnell's refusal to advance the Democrat's well-thought out bills to re-open the government, while continuing further discussion of border security, is a dereliction of his sworn duty.
He is refusing to allow the Senate to review the House bills and vote on them, thus deciding for the entire Senate what they should do and how they should vote. This is not his job.
He's obeying the will of Trump, not the American people, who rightly blame Trump for this shutdown. And he's hiding from fellow Congresspersons and constituents in his secret office in the Capitol.
The Constitution, in Article 1, Section 7, point 3 says, " Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary shall be presented to the President of the United States"
McConnell's blockading, hiding and being a Trump puppet. He's using Federal employees as pawns in a racist power game. He represents the basest values.
31
@Lilou
What bills are you referring to? The House has not sent the Senate a compromise bill to replace the one the Senate rejected.
@William Case--there are 6 bills the House has sent over that will re-open government, but McConnell refuses to submit them to a Senate vote. More are coming on, I believe, Wednesday.
4
William Case,
From this article:
"As Republicans go on offense in the Senate, Democrats will stay on offense in the House, where they have already passed a string of government funding bills that Mr. McConnell — who has largely remained on the sidelines during the shutdown debate — has refused to take up. On Wednesday, Ms. Pelosi plans to bring up a package of six bills to fund shuttered government agencies, ignoring Mr. Trump’s requests."
Mitch McConnell has been shirking his responsibilities as the Senate majority leader. He refuses do his job, further eroding our institutions.
4
I wonder how Trump’s rallies would have gone had he said, “We are going to build a big, beautiful wall and American taxpayers are going to pay for it.”
36
Traveling snake oil salesman can always get their ‘marks’ to buy their patent medicine. They convince them it’s the cure for everything, no matter how bitter the taste.
1
The Democrats are being tricked into playing on Trump's turf. They must not drop the argument that there is no crisis on the border. By focusing on the 5.7 billion, they are "admitting" that there is a problem worthy of a 5.7 billion dollar expenditure.
10
@Paul
The Border Patrol caught 521,090 illegal boded crossers in 2018. The backlog of immigration cases is nearly one millions. It will take years to remove the 521,090 caught last year. They have overwhelmed the detention and removal system. Meanwhile, the border Patrol estimates that it catches about 50 percent of illegal border crossers. This mean about 500,000 illegal immigrants snuck pass the Border Patrol last year. It is a crisis.
3
@William Case
It is clear from your many posts here that you have a problem with asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, not because the latter broke a law, but for other reasons. But the facts are not on your side.
Illegal border crossings do not make a crisis. Crises are very bad things. Illegal immigrants bring far more economic and other benefits than harm to the country. The benefits would be even greater if all were legalized, as their wages and consequently wages other low-skilled Americans would rise.
There is a humanitarian crisis, however. If I remember correctly, Republicans did not want to fund more immigration judges during Obama's presidency. A few days ago, the House passed a bill to increase the number of judges, among other things. This was before Trump announced his made for television so-called negotiation. More funding is also needed for proper facilities for migrants, and to return all Trump-kidnapped children to their parents. We all know where that crisis came from.
4
@childofsol
We don't need illegal immigrants to maintain population, stimulate the economy or pay taxes. We can get all the legal immigrants we want anything time we want by increasing immigration quotas.
Illegal immigrants pay more in federal taxes than they receive in federal benefit because they were ineligible for federal benefits, but what happens when they get too sick or too old to work? That's when the bill will come due, Meanwhile states bear most of the courts and it cost states billions to furnish them medical care and to educate their children.
You are not keeping up with the debate. In his speech, President Trump pointed out that $5.7 billion he asked far will hire thousands of immigration judges.
Anyone who still genuinely thinks that the Democrats are the problem here should read this Times analysis of trump:
"In Business and Governing, Trump Seeks Victory in Chaos"
“[Art of the Deal author] Mr. Schwartz said that he created the idea of Mr. Trump as a great deal maker as a literary device to give the book a unifying theme. He said he came to regret the contribution as he watched Mr. Trump seize on the label to sell himself as something he was not — a solver of complicated problems.”
“Rather, Mr. Schwartz said, Mr. Trump’s “virtue” in negotiating was his relentlessness and lack of concern for anything but claiming victory.
“If you don’t care what the collateral damage you create is, then you have a potential advantage,” he said. “He used a hammer, deceit, relentlessness and an absence of conscience as a formula for getting what he wanted.”
The article goes on to explain why Ann Coulter and co were so easily able to turn trump against the deal he was all set to sign in 2018.
This is our president. This is who he is and has always been. Seventy years' worth of vanity and self-dealing. Enough is enough. Open the government.
26
Fulfilling his mission? From Putin?
By the way, Trump has what French psychoanalysis calls a "psychotic structure."
The key symptoms are the following: oversize ego constantly alert to enemies all around, a sense of a mission--he sees a flaw that "he alone can fix"--and the voices in his head often come from radio or television as "commands" from on high. (CEOs in general have a higher rate psychotic structure--20%--than average.)
Finally they spin huge webs of theories and ideas, but are completely incapable of carrying on a real conversation with another person: they pontificate but cannot do any give-and-take. That does not mean he has had a psychotic break, only that his mental structure is psychotic and could ultimately breakdown.
10
A MAJORITY of citizens voted against spending billions of dollars for a wall. Immigration policy is what needs the work. Trump is holding federal workers hostage and, now, basically saying he won't hurt another group as much as he previously intended to. That's not negotiation; that's extortion. That's not leadership; that's bullying so he can check the box for "the base." The country is being ruled to please extremists who do not care about the greater good, just their angle and prejudices. And the Republican congress? They're going right along with him. They have become so warped and deranged that Mike Pence just tried to use a quote by Martin Luther King, Jr. to support building a wall against immigrants. They are morally deranged.
20
So McConnell will not bring up bills that Trump does not support, but will do so for bills that democrats clearly don't support. He then condemns 'political gamesmanship'.
Why is the entire country suffering because Republicans cannot stand up to the man who hijacked the party?
20
If you mean 'push' as in Trump asking them to tweet so that Trump could retweet - basically over and over - similar messages yesterday, then yeah, that's a push.
3
And where is Mexico in all of this?
Why isn't trump telling us not to worry because it will not cost us a cent?
He wouldn't be just a charlatan and apprentice third world demagogue now, would he?
14
"To all of the great people who are working so hard for your Country and not getting paid I say, THANK YOU - YOU ARE GREAT PATRIOTS!" Trump tweeted.
This disingenuous and hypocritical statement implies it's the choice, desire and, yes, even duty of Federal Workers to go without pay. AND some are required to go back to work without pay out of "patriotism?" Just because the Commander-in-Chief is waving the flag, and wearing the MAGA hat Federal workers will not be able to pay bills, buy food, maintain shelter, or preserve dignity. His supporters believe him when he says "We will win Big!" This is the BIG LIE. Trump is no disrupter, he's taking his followers on a suicide mission, but, his followers just say, Push On!
11
This is no deal at all! Temporary stay on deportation of DACA and TPS?? Trump created that himself! The Democrats already offered a deal on the Dreamers, and he shot that down at the last minute. A three-year "stay" is NO DEAL at all! This is nothing, nothing at all. McConnell needs to start putting some of those bills the House sent the Senate to reopen the government up for votes!! One of them was the same as the one the republicans passed in December. Reopen the government, and then negotiate on Border Security.
9
Stop the side show , how many controversial bills are being passed by this sneaky Congress during this fiasco.
You better wake up America, we’re all taking for ride
6
The Dems need to up their game. I’d like to see Speaker Pelosi start pinning the blame for this where it belongs: on McConnell. There is no negotiating of any real sense with the adolescent in the White House. Pelosi needs to turn more attention to McConnell — and do so in a strident manner. She needs to state publicly that she has given him the very same package HE passed overwhelmingly in the Senate before Hannity and Coulter scared the president into suddenly changing his tune (and embarrassing McConnell). And then call him out on his utter failure of leadership. She should even ask him directly, “are you a leader or a lackey?” Leaders do the right thing in the face of a president who won’t. Pelosi can remind him that leaders mass support to override a veto when its the right thing to do. Lackeys, well ....
Make no mistake. This is the McConnell shut down —which exists because Mitch and his party are petrified of the Republican base, and now know (if they had any doubts) that Limbaugh, Coulter and Hannity control the puppet in the White House and might lay them low, too, if they don’t tow the line. Leadership? How quaint! Pelosi needs to exploit this obvious defalcation of duty more forcefully.
801
@SMS So, Democrats who listen to their constituents are doing the will of the people and are leaders but Republicans who listen to their constituents are doing nothing but "defalcation of duty" and are lackeys...Sounds like, tails you win. heads I lose.
Is it possible that the base of both parties are causing damage? Is it possible that politicians from both parties are "petrified" of their bases? Why should the Republicans fear their base less than Democrats fear theirs?
4
@SMS @Miss Let @smb
Pelosi is the real government opening impediment. She refuses to accept, under any terms, a wall/barrier. She says it's "immoral and not who we are." She is preventing Schumer from compromising. Although last night, one her coalition broke and suggested that he would support money for a wall/barrier. So the crack is starting and I believe her intransigence will backfire on her Speakership.
McConnel bringing up for a vote Tuesday a bill, that includes Trump's latest offer, will pass the Senate and I believe put tremendous pressure on her House coalition -with a reasonable chance of passage. If so, it's a win for the President but more importantly the country.
3
@SMS
Agreed. Negotiating with Trump is negotiating with jello. Nancy should negotiate w/ Mitch. T's gambit is worthless: It's temporary; the matter is up to the courts; the republicans can undermine anything, as they are doing to ACA; Ann Coulter, Limbaugh, and Steve Miller are opposed so T's current word is worthless; temporary is not permanent.
49
Having bullied his way to big money through six bankruptcies, blaming his creditors, he's eager to get even more winning, by bankrupting the United States of America.
How anyone can't see through to his record, and thinks what he claims is anything but a big fat lie, is beyond the ability of any person with the slightest ability to observe and connect the dots to understand.
Just don't forget: six bankruptcies, lots of mobsters (Mafia at first, then Russian), and a whole lot of bluster.
He is the very definition of shallow evil. Sadly, too many people who claim to be "Christian" don't follow Jesus (see the Gospels), and have been persuaded that Democrats and poor people are Satan. If they don't go that far, they do think that it's easier to blame victims than get together and solve problems (that would be socialism).
The man is a curse on American hopes and dreams of a better world. He's not quite human.
12
Yes, please, let's try to "corner Democrats". Or score political points against Republicans.
Enough already.
While I have well defined political leanings, and I would be disappointed to see my point of view "lose"; and with a critical eye on the arc of history, I understand that there are real questions about repercussions to bowing to an Imperial Presidency, it is time for both sides to suck it up, and recognize that there are no winners here.
The American political tradition is losing.
Our institutions are being battered.
Our stature in the world is being eroded due to our dysfunction.
And most importantly, real people are being irreversibly hurt because of this stupid political stunt.
End the shutdown, put federal workers back on the job, and stop being so damn childish in D.C.
It's not rocket science, it's basic human civility.
17
Here's the laugh for the day, ladies and gentlemen.
"Mr. Trump said Ms. Pelosi had behaved “so irrationally”..."
The Con Don really knows how to try to throw HIS demented actions onto someone or something else. Now he's trying to take programs President Obama put into place - and he destroyed - to pretend to give something back. What a lying , deceptive, demented crook. How dumb does he think we are?
I, for one, am glad Speaker Pelois is Socially Conscious and really knows how to make a deal - or not.
25
Njglea, always enjoy reading your comments! Spot on, as usual!
2
Thank you, Mari. You made my day a little brighter.
3
@njglea
Amen.
Democrats, we are with you all the way. Don't do a thing until Trump ends his own shutdown. Never agree to the wall which has become the new symbol of Trump lies, racism and fear. The red-hat and khakis MAGA crowd in Washington over the weekend mocked black protestors and the native Americans who interceded by chanting "build that wall." The MAGA crowd knows what the wall means. And we know, too. "How dumb does he think we are?" Amen.
1
"America Held Hostage - Day 31"
As nothing will be don e today, because it is a federal holiday, the shutdown continues. We have gone one month and 800,000 federal workers, but thousands of contractors, remain out of work or working for no pay. Many are now filing for unemployment, going to food banks, and trying to get SNAP (though they can't because the USDA is shutdown).
Meanwhile, Trump, his party, and the party leadership, are holding the country hostage. In addition to extortion, and bribery, now it crosses over to ethics and lies. No surprise there, considering the biggest liar of the GOP is the so called "president".
The conservative media, the Christian right, and the GOP are blaming this on the Democrats. This was expected. Considering Trump had control of the government, until a couple weeks ago, his party refused to give him the wall. They purposely have waited to the Democrats took over the House, to find a scapegoat to blame. In addition, now they are using "Dreamers" as another pawn in this saga. This is where ethics and lies come in.
No one should give into extortion and bribery. But, when this over, some politicians need to step up to enact laws to prevent this from ever happening again, A president should not have sole power to shutdown the government on their own whim.
Right now, we are waiting for someone to blink, while this shutdown develops into a national crisis.
Trump, open the government and act your age. The same goes fro Congress.
22
Like most Americans, I am very troubled by the shutdown; but even more troubled by the terrible messaging by the Dems around this event.
Illegal immigration has always been this party's weak issue.
This is exactly why, post midterm elections and pre-2020 elections, Trump has chosen to create this crisis.
While the Dems have drawn their line in the sand relative to the Senate/House approved budget Trump vetoed, their messaging about the "why of it" has been horrible. Indeed, it was Trump that turned the conversation 3 degrees and tried to make this a about immigration in general ...and, now, a "principled discussion" immigration policy.
Dems a "comprehensive immigration reform"; but no one knows what that means. For me, it starts with a commitment that all immigration must be lawful . One person's opinion...
That said,, as long as long as the Dems have no platform regarding immigration, they cannot take a "principled position" in this matter...which is the place to be when advocating ideas.
More importantly, they will not win the minds of the American electorate.
5
@JL1951
Almost half of all illegal immigrants in the US arrived during the GW Bush administration.
The definition of the "Dreamers" for DACA treatment is immigrants who arrived here as children BEFORE JUNE 2007.
6
You apparently are not paying attention, Democrats do have a comprehensive immigration plan! But Congress has been controlled by Republicans since 2009! What have the Republicans done?!
1. They have elected a POTUS that has created a policy of tearing children from their families. And created internment camps for over 15K children!
2. They have emboldened ICE to raid businesses, etc., often arresting American citizens because they are "brown."
3. Republicans and Donald ignore the facts that the majority of undocumented immigrants are VISA OVERSTAYS! AND do not come through the southern border but they FLY in! Mostly from Eastern Europe!
4. The Democrats did attempt to help Dreamers find a path to citizenship, Donald took that's away! The man has no heart, no sense of justice.
5. Why didn't Republicans fund Donald's wall in the last two years?! Republicans didn't give Donald the money needed....why?
Do not blame the Democrats for the incompetence of Republicans and Donald!
If McConnell proposes something that has $5.7 bill for a wall and temporary extension of DACA in exchange for reopening the government, it should still be a non starter. Except for the reopening the government part, it's only what Trump offered the other day - which BTW apparently did NOT include reopening the government!
5
I stand w/Speaker Pelosi who stands firmly opposed to Trump's push to get his billions to build his ridiculous wall. Impetuous, inhuman, and unbecoming as the actions of a thoughtful man, separating children from their parents simply to drive home with real fear any immigration of these beleagured people. Add to that now the furloughing of 800,000 federal employees and you get the idea that vindictiveness has entered the mind of the president. But for the fact that this is actually happening, Trump's behavior and subsequent dictatorial orders are corrosive to all that is considered right and good. Foreign relations to him are beauty contests in Russia, economic policy tax breaks for the incredibly wealthy, and the actual workings of the government for his quislings to operate.
12
Democrats should get something big in exchange for the wall. They could try for gun control which would do way more for national security than the wall. They could go for a climate deal or single payer health care or Merrick Garland for the supreme court. Trump will do anything to get his wall. Take advantage of this Dems! Get something big.
10
Trump will renege on any temporary concessions he offers in order to get his hands on an initial $5.7 billion for his preposterous wall. It's what he does.
And make no mistake, the $5.7 billion is just a down payment. There will be many more payments, and then a continuing string of expenses for maintenance of Trump's folly.
18
A compromise should upset at least 50% of the people on each side of the argument.
Proposal 1: Give all Dreamers immediate amnesty and a
path to citizenship.
Proposal 2: Abolish the provision that if a baby is born within our boarders they are automatically a citizen.
Interesting idea. #2 is part of the 14th Amendment, though. It takes more than a little wrangling to change the Constitution, so how about if we think big and cash in the right to native born citizenship for the right to bear arms? We would be free to set new rules on who is entitled to citizenship, and we could restrict assualt rifles to the soldiers, sailors, and Marines who need them in battle.
4
@sakd I like your ideas! There is absolutely no reason that a civilian needs a assault rifle. If these people want to play Rambo they can sign up for the Marines or Army. The "baby birthright" made sense a couple hundred years ago but now it just entices people to enter our country illegally.
1
Pelosi needs to establish the “Pelosi Doctrine”:
No government official shall ever shut down the government. Hostage-taking and extortion are not viable means of the legislative process. They will not be considered. They will always be ignored. Every time.
13
The Democrats have preconditioned talks on immigration and border security on opening the government again. They should go a step farther and require the Executive to quit lying.
I know, I know. This would lead to a permanent shutdown. But you can't negotiate with a partner whose reality is not reality.
11
Perhaps these legislators should be quizzed on just whom they believe their constituents are, US citizens or the citizens of the world.
3
You are missing the big picture. These legislators represent the majority of US citizens who are for immigration reform but not for an ego wall for King Donald I. In addition, most people do not like being told to negotiate the release of 800,000 government jobs. Open the government. Then convince us that the wall is the best way to spend $5.7B.
10
Thank goodness for President Donald Trump. He is getting done what past presidents said they would plus what Americans have been asking for. He is working for us. His reason for wanting to be president is to help and he loves his country.
He is the best president.
Thank you president Trump!
Here are some of the things he has done:
-cut regulations so businesses can get to business and hire and give raises.
-prison reform
-low unemployment
-high GDP
-redo Mexico / Canadian trade agreement (a win-win for all)
-working with China (a win-win for both countries)
-release North Korea hostages
-opioid bill
-lowering prescription drug costs
-opening markets for healthcare so we can shop
He brings things to the forefront so they can be discussed.
Awesome!
8
@Jackie
get satire. you should write for tv.
Stop using federal employees as pawns. First, end the government shutdown.
There was deal to be had before the government shutdown. There's a deal to be had as soon as it's over. We cannot legitimize this.
The democrats have voted for money for "some walls" in "some places" before. They will not vote for a wall from sea to shining sea because; it is not efficient, it will require taking people's land through imminent domain, it will damage quite a few endangered species that need to migrate freely across the border.
But, if Trump wants extra money for EFFECTIVE border security, the Democrats are ready to make a deal--as soon as the government shutdown ends.
10
I lived in Boston firing the big Dig, Our single largest infrastructure initiative had massive cost overruns and contractor issues. That's what trump is hiding behind his wall: the vast profits his crony contractors will make off a total unnecessary project. Tthe Senate presented the President with a bipartisan spending bill he refused to sign last month. It's time for Leader McConnell; Speaker Pelosi;and the minority leaders to meet; hammer out a workable compromise that starts with reopening all government services. Hold the session on live tv and present it to the public as an end run around the Trump wall.
10
As the major channels for illegal I'm migration and drug smuggling are our ports of entry, President Trump is playing 5th dimensional chess by effectively defunding TSA. Once our airports are fully shutdown (those TSA workers will eventually have to decide to stop working or die of starvation), our country will finally be safe from the flow of people intent on overstaying their visas and foreign business people trying to hijack our jobs and intellectual property. To close the deal, President Trump needs to shutdown satellite and cable communications too to make his point that America is better off alone. Let Russia and China waste their resources on other countries while we remain safe and secure behind our Big Beautiful Wall.
2
I agree with the principle behind these comments but not the visceral hate. This is not going to be good if/when Trump wins a second term. It will force us to attack his voters.... which means citizen against citizen. Deep seated hate between citizens, at this level, started the fall of the roman empire. History does not repeat itself but it does rhyme.
1
No, what finished off the Western Roman Empire was the sudden and near-unanimous realization by Rome's richest that they no longer needed government. And withdrew. Only then did the empire collapse. Gibbon is quite clear on this.
2
Both sides are dealing with their militant fringes. On the right, it is the Coulters and Hannitys who don't want to budge. On the left, it is their counterparts at MSNBC and many commenters on this article who say "don't give an inch!"
Both sides need to grow up. Negotiation means that neither side gets everything they want, and if in the end neither side is thrilled, chances are it's a good outcome.
Trump has already moved away from the shrill Coulter caucus. Time for Nancy to move away from her shrill "don't budge" caucus.
4
There is no defense of for this Trump-McConnell Republican Government Shutdown, it must end immediately before any negotiations or budget talks begin, or this hostage taking method will be Trump's only way of dealing with a Democratic majority.
This is irresponsible and a disgraceful way for a President to try and conduct a policy negotiation, and he would use this hostage taken method all of the time causing constant turmoil and chaos.
There were already Pro-Lifers in that march chanting to shutdown the government to get their way.
This Government Shutdown cannot be allowed as bargaining tool or chip, under any circumstances , by any party Republican or Democrat, ever, period!
34
The shutdown is due to a dispute between Congress and the President. Either side can end it.
What I would love to see is an arbitrator moderated and televised discussion between Trump, congressional leaders, and other member of congress that focused on specific question and avoided unchallenged talking points. That will never happen but I can dream.
@John
Wrong! The Shutdown was strictly a ploy by Trump to get his way.
End the Shutdown and let the sides negotiate in good faith and not hold the country hostage.
Why don't Democrats use this as an opportunity to 'get something'? They won't because they don't use federal workers as bargaining chips. They don't pay ransom to hostage takers like McConnel and Trump.
18
Trump is treating his government employees just as he did his casino employees. Don’t pay, then fire them. Result, Democrats guaranteed at least 800,000 more votes. Maybe millions more.
16
He has authorized pay after the shutdown. When we work, we typically get paid a pay period afterward. We don't come home each day with an envelope full of money. What is happening is people will not get paid as soon as normal and that is wrong.
On the flip side, Federal employees need to know shutdowns are a reality and if possible save up for a month or two without pay, or make arrangements to borrow from parents etc.
@John
"borrow from parents"?
and if there are no parents to borrow from?
wow. just wow.
It is now evident that Republican political strategy is to attack women in leadership positions - Hilary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren,
now Nancy Pelosi......among many. Somehow I think this plan is going is going to backfire ?
13
Trump and Obama have shown me our infatuation with the presidency is overblown. Obama fiddled away the summer of 2010 while Fox propagandists inflamed the Tea Party who used the Don't Tread on Me flag as their symbol of greed instead of it's true meaning for democracy. Trump, we'll he's already stiffed suppliers of their final payments and walked away from bankruptcies, cash in hand after fleecing retirement accounts from investors. McConnell is holding this up, the same way he refused to act on Obama's Supreme Court pick. Federal and state legislatures, buttressed by the Bill of Rights that Madison and Hamilton opposed, are the only true sovereigns of a free people.
4
Democrats need to stay unified and keep hitting Mr. Trump's weak points; his mercurial temperament and glaring lack of informed application of strategy and tactics. Mr. Trump has a history of not paying his employees, contractors and debt holders. Mr. Trump failed to mention the 800,000 federal employees who are either furloughed or, even worse are forced to work without pay.
Also, start putting Senate Majority Leader McConnell front and center in the Republican Senate's role in aiding and abetting Mr. Trump's taking 800,000 Americans and their families hostage. Increase coverage on the impact of the shutdown on the furloughed/unpaid federal workers coupled with Mr. Trump's extensive history on NOT PAYING workers.
Mr. Trump has extended his appalling lack of empathy and humanity from separating families at the border to destroying Americans whose only "crime" is working for an entity run by Mr. Trump.
11
Trump will soon be toast, and he knows it. In anticipation, I am proposing that Americans of my persuasion get ready to institute a new annual National Barbecue Day which will be the day he resigns or is kicked out. The day will be fun for get-togethers, and commemorate specifically the day that Trump's blank was definitively fried.
7
Good old Mitch McConnell. Won't bring up a bill taht the
president won't sign but has not problem bringing up a bill Congress won't pass. (Of course, when Obama was president, he had no problem bringing up all those bills to overturn the ACA although he knew Obama would veto them.)
Perhaps someday he'll sit down and read the Constitution explaining the separation of powers between the executive and the legislative.
13
"Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, plans to bring up legislation as early as Tuesday that would wrap Mr. Trump’s proposal into a broader package that would include billions of dollars in disaster relief and immediately reopen the government, an aide said..." Well sure. Why not? Trump, and apparently McConnell believe they can borrow through Social Security's T-bond purchases and there's always China, Japan, Ireland and Brazil to loan us more. They also believes that the current deficit can expand to include $5.6 trillion for his wall and other necessities. Trump supporters: Do remember that this is the candidate that promised to eliminate the U.S. debt in 8 years?
10
The majority of Americans hate the wall, and the majority of Americans wanted meaningful and permanent immigration reform. But, the majority if Americans also want the government to reopen and for our elected officials. Including the President, to start negotiations immediately.
The dems are going to get outmaneuvered by the republicans if they put the Trump plan on the table for a vote without any counteroffers from the dems. Pelosi, Schumer and other veteran democrats and past leaders know the stakes, and a strategy of not negotiating will simply allow the republicans to corner them and erase much of the gains that were made in the midterm elections. Come on folks, time is up. Put forth counteroffers, including permanent solutions for DACA and TPS, and do it before the Tuesday vote.
My guess is that the President is willing to take the heat from the extreme right base if he can get a deal. So, give him one, and show the American public that you are capable of rising above the partisan divide and restore people’s confidence in government. The ball is now in the dems court. Please don’t blow it. It will come back to haunt all if us in 2020.
If the President rejects all of the counteroffers, then we will have succeeded in putting the ball squarely back in his court and in the Republican Party. It is always better to negotiate from a position of strength and initiative rather than being on the defensive. And, no one ever gets everything they want, even the President.
7
In light of the prominent murders in the last few years committed by illegal immigrants who had been deported several times but were able to easily cross back time and time again (Kate Steinle, Ronal Singh, etc.), I’m still waiting for Democrats to tell the nation why we don’t need a wall of some sort on the southern border.
Bonus points for avoiding the non sequitor about illegals committing fewer crimes than the native born population (you know, beyond Social Security fraud, etc.).
Additional bonus points for explaining how sanctuary cities and states do not enable and encourage illegal immigration.
8
@EGD The fact that most violent crimes in this country are committed by white, native-born male citizens is not a "non-sequitur"; it's a basic truth of the situation that pro-wall hysterics wish to dodge. Sorry! The cases mentioned are more "prominent" than others mostly because they have been cynically exploited by the right to further their own political ends and, in some cases, hate and racism.
8
@EGD
So let's compare the number of Americans murdered "in the last few years" - horrifically - by Americans and those by illegal immigrants. And then you will see that there IS NO COMPARISON, most are committed by born and bred Americans and then you will see why that bit of sensationalism does not effect congressional democratic votes. They deal in facts.
3
Sure I accept that challenge. While one murder is one too many, the reality is that a $5 billion wall won’t stop clever criminals from entering and reentering the country illegally. The wall may be a symbol but it is a far cry from any solution. As an aside, most illegal immigrants come in through our airports, and they come from every continent (except Antarctica).
As for sanctuary cities, it’s the same as the wall. People don’t come because of sanctuary cities. These folks know the streets aren’t paved in gold and you can’t pick up the cash with a shovel and a wheelbarrow. They come because they know there are jobs.
So there you have it; two symbols neither of which fix a problem. Security means a comprehensive plan that involves manpower at way more than the southern border, technology, and tighter control at all ports of entry. The $5 billion is a drop in the bucket of what is needed in real solutions, and squandering it on a symbol isn’t smart. As for sanctuary cities, it wouldn’t matter if every city labeled itself as such so long as the government enforced and truly took on employers who hire undocumented workers. The undocumented workers are good for business and that’s why business has stayed quiet on the subject. They’re not coming if there’s no jobs
Politicians are counting on intellectual laziness. The kind that just repeats their talking points without giving much thought to what the real issues are and how to bring about real solutions.
4
It pays to understand how Trump operates to understand why the Democrats must stand firm. In casino after casino Trump borrowed huge amounts of money, even when the specific casinos competed against each other, then stiffed employees, then inevitably declared bankruptcy for those casinos. At the end no American bank would lend him money, putting his casino con out of business. This is the same situation. He has conned and conned and conned and will drive the country bankrupt unless the Democrats refuse to lend him money that will only serve his purposes, not those of the country. As hard as it is, just say no now. Otherwise he will just keep doing this.
11
Democrats have no plan for controlling the border. That's the bottom line. They all parrot the same line: "It's Trump's wall". I'll take Trump's wall any day in place of the open borders that Democrats have created. Stay strong Mr. President. By rejecting your compromise proposal, the Democrat party has revealed its true intentions which ignores American security in favor of pandering to illegal immigrants. The only thing Democrats, liberals and progressives understand is hardball politics. So play it.
6
Actually, the democratic proposal has several suggestions for real security. A wall is nonsense. There are more pressing matters to enhance border security than building a useless symbol, which the Dems seem to get while Republicans are all about Trump's wall.
3
Your President is the one who needs to stay strong and insist that Mexico pay. No check, no wall. Why are you willing to tolerate his infirmity?
Trumps Wall
Trump really, really wants that wall. A permanent, physical change to the countries landscape. The great wall of Trump, the savior of America from Caravans and anchor babies, the great defender of Americans southern border. A legacy.
The sad part of this is that Trumps had a chance for a permanent legacy, he could have been, and can still be the president that gives Universal health care to all Americans, the democrats would vote for it obviously, and he could get enough republican votes to get it through. But his mind doesn't work that way.
Instead he will have to settle for a wall. Obama has his Obama care, a tangible change, which benefited millions of Americans now, and millions to come in the future. Trumps wall, if completed will always be nothing more than a symbol of uselessness, people will go around it, go over it, build tunnels under it, the will deface it . Walls are only as good as the people who protect it, and a wall so long just can't be protected. Universal health care, on the other hand would have protected everyone, every American, the true definition of a great legacy.
10
I've seen Trump's actions compared to Munchausen syndrome by proxy, whereby pain is inflicted and then relief offered to gain favor. Certainly seems to be the case here. Trump isn't offering ANYTHING that he hasn't initially taken away, and he still demands his near-six billion dollars for a wall that would obviously be ineffective in solving the real border issues. Unfortunately, hundreds of thousands of Americans are being made to suffer for our delusional president's actions. This will be one of the very darkest chapters in American history and I am very sad to see it.
17
Yes, let's talk about "The Wall."
As the U.S. enters week 5 (or is it week 6?, we've lost count) of the government shutdown, the fantasy wall at our southern border is nothing compared to the Real Wall Republicans and Democrats have erected to divide our nation and shut out government workers from the basic civil right of a regular paycheck and citizen respect.
The president and his Republican colleagues are primarily to blame for this impasse; however, considering the compromises Trump declared on Saturday he is willing to give Democrats -- a fair gesture toward renewed dialogue and eventual sound policymaking on the immigration issue -- both sides must now effect a near-term resolution to free government employees and get them their back and regular pay.
The president and congress must delay their southern-border negotiations for tomorrow. Today's sole order of business is to bring down The Wall that divides our nation -- to reopen the government.
4
@Ken
This wall was built brick by brick by Republicans. THEY decided when we elected a black man as president that governing would stop. THEY decided to put an incompetent moron in the Oval Office. There is no shared responsibility here. The republicans decided long ago that they HATE government- except of course when they are at the trough- and they have systematically, very effectively set out to destroy it.
4
@The East Wind, in your phrase, "no shared responsibility," do you mean that you are against Republican/Democrat dialogue; i.e., negotiation? I hope not. I despise the GOP as much as you. However they're as key to ending the shutdown as the Dems.
1
All spending billions of dollars on a wall building program does is increase sales of ladders, shovels, and cutting equipment at Home Depot and Lowes, along with the sale of heavy duty pickup trucks, trailer hitches and chains.
13
"Seeking to corner Democrats?" How about seeking to get them to the negotiating table, a reasonable option that Pelosi has petulantly refuse. Trump is usually the child in the room. This time it's no-talk Nancy.
7
Trump's DACA offer is a nothing burger. Courts have struck down Dreamer deportation. Both houses agreed to a deal before Christmas that Trump reneged on after listening to right-wing radio. Pelosi shouldn't negotiate with terrorists. Good for her.
I say give him the money; also specify it must be spent only on the solid cement structure Trump so vividly described at his rallies. Constraints of geography, efficacy, and private property already insure this can’t be built, and Trump will have no “wall” to crow about, just a boondoggle. The proof is in pudding, er, wall.
4
The Democrats need to visually explain in charts their vision of border security. One chart would show the public how much money do they propose to be allocated on specific electronic surveillance, border patrol officers, completion of 700 miles plus fencing and repairs to existing fencing/wall that they supported in 2006 to the present, immigration hearing judges, investigators, & attorneys, temporary shelter for asylum seekers, etc. Another chart would show how much money has already been allotted on the existing 650 plus miles of fencing & walls, the number of border patrol officers, etc. Lastly, a chart showing the number of "undocumented immigrants" entering the USA over the last two decades to show the decrease in undocumented immigration.
It is time to redirect the Trump led conversation from the "wall" as the panacea of border security to what works. Charts would show in a simple way what the current multiple interventions to secure the border and the corresponding decrease in undocumented immigration. If the Democrats spoke in simple terms about their proposals for border security, it would be a counter-narrative to the false narrative spread by Trump and the GOP's false narrative that the Democrats want an "open border" and block border security measures. These charts would also visually show that McConnell & the GOP did not fund a "wall" in 2017 & 2018 when they controlled three branches of government.
14
If Trump wants a pardon, he better dump Pence ASAP or we're getting Nancy for President. He needs an untainted VP to survive this for the sake of his own posterity.
Why else would Mueller put the brakes on our runaway impeachment plans by suggesting cryptically that the story of Trump's witness tampering is flawed. He's gonna deliver us a two for one as Pence is part of the greater fraud upon America.
Mueller is trying to buy time to line up a dual impeachment so no one can pardon these chicken pluckers restoring the executive branch to sanity.
So, Trump better dump Pence as soon as he can or both of them will get canned without pardons.
12
@Abby
I hate to give aid to the enemy, but this is a certainty. Eventually, Trump is going to need a VP who can pardon his unpardonable behavior in office as well as his defrauding us during the election and transition.
Jared removed Christie from the Transition because NJ's former AG would NOT have let Flynn get away with it, much less for let him remain for weeks after being told by FBI he was a spy. But Pence was just FINE with it.
3
Democrats say they’ll negotiate after the government is reopened. But that’s a Lucy & Charlie Brown lie that Democrats have told many times before and that the GOP would be wise to resist.
The GOP on Kennedy’s immigration bill, Reagan on immigration, HW Bush on taxes, W. Bush in their support of the war on terrorism.... All were snookered by Democrats who talk out of both sides of their mouth. They have a history of being for things before they’re against them.
4
Trump was for an agreed on deal for this before Christmas before Rush and Anne said he had to be against it.
6
@Alan - first Open thé government, free the hostages, then let’s negotiate. Republicans keep shutting the government down - haven’t they learned that it has never worked for them?
@Alan
Uh .. and where's the evidence backing up your claim that Democrats already vowed to negotiate after the GOP ends a shutdown.
I suppose you're confounding "negotiating" and "caving"? .. ;-)
ANY patriot should refuse to negotiate once a bipartisan appropriations bill (= bill that by definition funds the implementation of already existing law, NOT new law projects) is not being signed into law in time, because it's a president's constitutional duty to implement already existing law, whether he can get new law projects through Congress or not, remember?
Starting to turn the paychecks of border patrol agents into bargaining chips, and thereby effectively weakening our borders, is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
That's why in most other countries, it's simply illegal.
Now that the GOP decided to do so anyhow, the only way to make sure that they NEVER EVER do so again during the next two years, is to categorically refuse to negotiate during a shutdown, and to make sure that the highly partisan new law project that they decided to attach to an appropriations bill will NEVER EVER be part of a compromise in the future anymore.
In that way, they'll now that IF they think about doing this again, they won't obtain ANYTHING at all.
If you disagree, just imagine that the next Dem president would stop paying border patrol agents as long as a new GOP House doesn't suddenly vote for Medicare for All, for instance.
You see ... ? ;-)
This isn't about the wall, it's about the shutdown.
First government employees, now DACA children.
There is just no extortion racket that Trump and his merry band off republicans in Congress will let pass.
14
Republicans have to reopen the government and then make an offer. Otherwise Democrats have zero incentive to negotiate let alone give Trump a wall.
11
President Trump says a steel barrier is the only solution to prevent illegal immigration along our U.S.-Mexico border. Speaker Pelosi and Senator Schumer say Trump is manufacturing a crisis where no crisis exists.
A complete steel barrier along our southern border will cost upwards of $100 billion of our hard earned tax dollars.
To make the case for the wall, a comprehensive, unbiased analysis is needed.
Questions to be answered include:
Is there any increased security provided by building a wall?
Are there technological solutions (cameras; sensing devices; other electronic systems) that are less expensive than a wall that would provide a similar degree of border security?
What are the overall costs to build, operate and maintain a steel wall over the entire border and/or over a significant portion of the border where illegal crossings have been shown to regularly occur?
How would tunneling and climbing over be prevented by building a wall?
Would border patrolling still be needed to maintain border security?
Would increased border patrolling provide sufficient border security at a lower cost than a wall?
These questions must be answered, backed up with rigorous data, before the American public agree resoundingly that so many billions of our tax dollars should be spent on this wall.
But President Trump does not answer questions, nor believe in science, compromise, or making sound decisions.
What a loser of a person, a loser of a man...
22
We can't submit to the Trump leverage of shutdown to satisfy his campaign promise to build an expensive and almost useless wall or 20 foot fence. We can spend money to improve searches at Ports of Entry. Electronic surveillance, high tech imaging, sniff searching, more customs officials, asylum judges and courts, and improved temporary holding facilities.
Down the street from me there lives a neighbor who is rabidly for a "wall" and tells us all with a yard sign. Fact is, relatively few "illegal" violators are caught between on the 80 miles Tucson and Port-of-Entry Nogales, and we have a lot of security. Nogales is a very busy entry point, but not nearly as much as Tijuana, Laredo and others. Many miles to the east and west of Nogales there is mostly road-less, water-less desert and mountains, long stretches of "nowhere" with vehicle barriers, many roadway search points, electronic surveillance and mobile patrols.
As far as I can tell, the "Wall" people are ill-informed, opposed to immigration as a matter of policy, or just attached to the idea of an expensive symbol.
9
Democrats should agree to everything Trump has asked fo to address what he considers a national emergency. In return Trump and Republicans should address With Democrats, in the same bill, what Democrats understand to be national emergencies: gun violence, health care and climate change.
4
So you mean, actual emergencies.
4
Mitch and the GOP Take Russian Money. That's the only real story. All this is like arguing about the best way to clean your house while ignoring the termite infestation.
17
So what did McConnell do with that 2.5 M contribution from the Russian oligarch?
13
The Democrats are right to reject Trump’s offer. Until he re-opens the government they shouldn’t even answer the phone if he calls!
This tactic of holding the Government hostage must not be allowed to work…. EVER!
16
If Trump was offering something new in his proposal to end the shutdown it would certainly be worth consideration. However, it's just reheated leftovers from yesterday's dinner. Now the republicans are beating the drum that they're offering something the Dems cannot refuse. The republicans never do anything good for the country without some hidden agenda. The big Tax relief deal was good for who? What has it really done for America? How much more has the national debt increased as a result of it. The tax package was a bold face lie. The republicans are not trustworthy and have proven it many times over. They are corrupt to the point that they cannot act any other way. They cannot help themselves.
7
Once again, the Democrats are going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They have a great opportunity to use this horrible shutdown to get a few really good things, given Trump's desire to find a way out. They could start with getting a permanent path to citizenship for DACA folks (no three year only reprieve) and other non-immigration related needs. Of course, they have to get off their horse. By being so dug in, they could lose the best chance while Trump is most willing to say yes just to get out of this mess. But like so many other times the Democrats either cave in and when it's best to deal, they dig in. Get out of the foxhole or miss the opportunity.
5
@gmt Permanent citizenship for Dreamers isn't and won't be on the table because Trump and McConnell can't get the votes for it. The immigration hardliners are OK with building the wall, but they know it is not necessary and therefore are not willing to give anything up to get it.
4
Brilliant idea: Democrats won't pay the $5 billion ransom for 800,000 workers, take the wounded hostage! Who's next, cancer patients?
Release the hostages, then do the hard tasks of politics and negotiating POLICY.
3
The Democrats would be fools to give in to Trump without getting anything in return. If there's a path to *citizenship* for DACA/TPS individuals, we can talk about some money wasted on the wall.
Or if Trump increases ACA subsidies for the middle class. Or anything substantive.
5
Texans do not want the wall. Texas Republicans just want to make Trump happy and they’re willing to step over fellow Texans land rights to do it. Texans appear to be paying for the wall.
10
Why does the President call Speaker of The U.S. House of Representatives "Nancy"? This is beyond disrespectful, not only of the woman who is third in line for the presidency, and elected to lead the body which represents the people of the United States, but to the American people.
16
The conservatives who are alarmed about amnesty for illegal immigrants have a valid point. Other than refugee programs, no successful first-world country allows people to come in illegally and stay. I tried emigrating to Canada and New Zealand that way, and I found out that they have zero tolerance for such immigration, and strict, sensible, merit-based immigration systems I had to apply to from OUTSIDE the country.
The Dems who criticize Trump for holding the government hostage and for his stupid wall idea also have valid points.
We have yet to see a fact-based immigration debate in this country.
The simple fact is we aren't providing adequate infrastructure, quality of life, health care, etc. to the 300+ million of us already here. We're in debt, and we're declining.
Every person added to a lifeboat that's already overcapacity sinks it.
We need to stop all immigration now from everywhere.
5
International airports are the conduits for the narcotics Trump and the Republicans are afraid of. The Wall would have no effect.
The Stoneham Douglas High School Shooting (2018), Las Vegas Shooting (2017), Orlando Nightclub Shooting (2016), Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting (2012), Columbine High School Shooting (1999), or the University of Texas Shooting (1966) that so frighten Trump and the Republicans were committed by non-immigrants. The Wall would have no effect.
The Oklahoma City Bombing (1995) must terrify Trump and the Republicans, as must the Unabomber (1978 - 1985), the Centennial Olympic Park bomber (1996), and the 16th Street Baptist Church Bombing (1963). The Wall would have no effect.
If you look at the list of "scary things" that Trump and the Republicans are afraid of, it becomes apparent that they are cowards. They fear women. They fear migrants. They fear people with black skin, brown skin, and beige skin. They fear Muslims, Sikhs, and Atheists. They fear a changing world that always changes. They fear anything they don't understand, and they understand so little. They fear unions fighting for fair pay and safe working conditions. They fear contributing to the Common Good. They fear science and those who understand it. They fear the LGBTQ community. They fear the universe so much that they have created a myth of a Golden Age of Americans. The Wall would have no effect.
Some courage might help.
20
How are we going to get out of this mess with a President who does not know how to make a deal, an incompetent Administration and Republican lapdogs in the House and Senate?
McConnell put Republicans on the sidelines by taking the position that he won't bring any bill to the floor the President won't agree to sign. The Administration didn't get it, so McConnell had to clue them in that they needed to propose legislation so he could bring it to the floor.
Trump's is offering to temporarily rescind his policy to cancel DACA protection. He doesn't seem to realize that the courts have protected DACA though the end of his Administration and that Republicans voted to not include his $5.7 billion for a wall.
Pelosi's plan makes much more sense. Resubmit the funding bills that Republicans passed when they supported the bills they now oppose only because Trump told them to.
6
Given the shortage of popular support for dumping $5.7B on Trump’s wall, it’s wrong that the Dems (and more Republicans than we may think) need to turn an even greater share of public opinion against this dystopian and thoroughly ineffective idea.
And it’s wrong for any compromise to allocate a penny to building the physical barrier the President demands.
But two wrongs may have to make a right.
Throw Trump a bone for his fence. Half a billion? A billion tops. But for wall’s most fanatical proponents, the compromise will build an overwhelming consensus that the White House, its Congressional supporters and its media outlets will no longer be able to ignore.
Coulter and Limbaugh have said no to the deal, so even if the Congress sends legislation to Trump, he probably will not sign it.
4
Never compromise with a criminal and a goal-post mover. Whatever the deal is today, it will change tomorrow. Three years of citizenship protection ain't no deal anyway unless the Republicans all expect to be gone in 2020, and for the Dems to actually come up with the humane, workable immigration policy. Mitch McConnell needs to care less about kowtowing to Trump and open the government. Then Congress can have an American democratic debate and come to a realistic compromise on border security than may not include much or any wall. The majority of American people should have some say in how their tax dollars are spent. The majority of American people want the government to open. The majority of American people do not want the Trump vanity wall project. The majority of American people do not want racism and immigrant hatred posing as an immigration policy on their dime. Democrats are willing to compromise but not only on Trump's Trumped-up terms. Do something real, Republicans. Open the government.
7
This "...offer..." from Trump is useful only if it is a fig leaf to get negotiations-real negotiations- started. Temporary DACA and TPS in exchange for billions to allegedly "...build the wall..." is not going to happen.
2
It is in Democrats court to explain why they are not even negotiating, it was a tactical error to reject the offer before Trump at least publicly revealed it. When will Dems, often on the better side of the issue, get better PR?
Speaker Pelosi should inform the President that she doesn't support "Amnesty" as a condition for a wall. Democrats support a broad bipartisan immigration reform package that includes a path to citizenship and border security. It should be negotiated after the government is open.
The President has tipped his hand. He is willing to give temporary amnesty in exchange for his campaign promise of a wall. He doesn't care one bit about a path to citizenship or border security.
He is naked and it's getting cold in Washington. He will cave.
4
The Trump Doctrine
Create a problem(s) that HURTS people.
Offer a ‘solution’ that addresses the problem(s) - not fixes the problem.
Say “I offering a solution, you should take it, people are hurting”
In business.
He would sign a contract with a vendor.
They would do the job - put lots of people, material on the job
He would refuse to pay
The vendors needed the money they had depended on getting (the problem Trump had created)
Trump would offer a portion of the amount owed, saying “Take it now or sue me and wait years. I have tons of lawyers just for that. “
Small vendors were hurt whichever way they went
There were tons of lawsuits against the Trump Organization
Plus —-
We are supposed to have three co-equal parts of Government. McConnell is NOT part of the Administration- he is NOT supposed to work for Trump. He has several Bills passed by the House. They should be brought to the Senate before Trump’s ‘nothing burger’.
8
If Trump is able to make Pelosi look bad in this debacle, then clearly Trump is getting "his" message out effectively. And Pelosi is not. This has been a consistent challenge for Pelosi, the inability to deliver a clear message that resonates with Americans. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you deliver it. Pelosi is frail and inarticulate. She's not a compelling speaker. She doesn't inspire one to listen. Pelosi (and Schumer, who is even worse) should recognize their limitations and have newer, younger, more articulate members of Congress speak to the issues. We need different voices.
5
I still don't understand why the Senate did not vote on the House's continuing resolution to keep the government open. Democrats are not the problem; Republicans are.
4
Trump finally delivers his ransom note for the 800,000 federal workers and 2 million DACA protectees, only $5.7 Billion.
Americans don't negotiate with hostage takers, we hunt them down and put them in jail.
14
Government 101 is the United States of America doesn't negotiate with terrorists! its well known that its what terrorists do, take and hold human hostages, then followed by demands for there release. trump first took the 800 thousand federal workers hostage by causing the government shutdown, which is entering its 2nd month. this weekend trump tried to use the DACA kids as new hostages in deal to end the shutdown. trump wants real money for a solid border wall, that the majority of Americans don't want. but yet he only offers a temporary amount of time to keep DACA kids safe, 3 years. trump has also admitted that there is no amnesty, as that would have to be a much bigger deal. trump while living at the most important address in America, is the terrorist, holding us all hostage. no negotiating until all
5
Put simply, Pelosi and Schumer voted for the border fence in recent years. Let them stand in front of the people about why it is such a bad idea now Trump is pushing it.
Time to speak truth to hypocrisy.
7
@Hjb
When did Pelosi or Schumer ever say that we need a wall across the entire border?
The border between Texas and Mexico is the Rio Grande. The only way to wall that off is to separate Texas from the river. Is that wise?
Also, Mexico is supposed to pay for the wall.
3
Actually, Pelosi has always voted against it. Sen. Schumer voted for a 2006 fence bill which did not include a funding allocation, and it had several amendments, including one that gave more visas to immigrants working in agriculture.
This is about funding. They all agree on more border protection.
3
@Barbara T to be fair pelosi voted “nay” in the secure border fence act 2006 but Schumer and Obama voted for it. Hilary Clinton spoke our on favor of it as recently as 2015 and she could be our current president. There’s plenty of support for it on the Democratic side, they’re just doing their sworn duty in saying NO to Trump.
Perhaps we should ask Pelosi why California, her home state needs a border wall.
When someone truely leads, that person needs to be capable of empathy. The Donald is incapable. The Reps, and The Donald, focused at winning at any cost, are complicit in inflicting morally corrupt governance upon not just 800,000 workers but also the people they serve. That lie, and its effects, are a criminal.
3
This week is going to be very ugly. I can't imagine where we might be on Friday. Trump and the GOP, I'm afraid, will somehow manage to get what they want--they always seem to. Very depressing out here in America.
5
there's no gun to your head, there's no hostage situation, there's just a clear path to ending this shutdown and it's something all democrats have said in the past. The U.S.A. needs a wall to protect it's citizens.
Trump shutdown the government for border security and it's the Dems responsibility to have the courage to get the 800,000 people back to work.
6
The first round separated families and put people in camps. They are throw away people. Round two is shutting down the government as a ploy to build the wall by creating multiple crisis using the American people as pawns. I have read comments that suggest the secondary gain was getting rid of government employees. What is the tipping point? Is there not anyone in the Republican party who sees how flawed and dangerous this president is. As for Mitch McConnell, one can only assume he's in it up to his neck.
6
This is Trump's shutdown. He said he would accept the blame.
Hold him accountable or stop pretending to be jounalists.
7
@Jamie Vetter It’s not the journalists who must hold him accountable. At this point, it’s the Republicans—and We the People as a whole. Since it seems unlikely that the Republicans will step up to the plate, We must do so. Unfortunately, recent history implies that few will listen.
The Republicans will lose the 2020 election if they push Trump on the American people. In future he should not be nominated for anything more than prison.
6
A Republican Congress had two years to pass a border funding bill; they didn’t. They had two years to do something about immigration; they didn’t.
So now that Democrats have the House, it’s all their fault? I don’t think so.
Trump is promising temporary measures on immigration in exchange for everything he is demanding. He’s notorious for stiffing people - he can’t be trusted to keep even a bad deal.
Meanwhile he and Mitch McConnell continue to hold the government hostage. The party of Trump needs to go. It’s time for every government worker to call a general strike - and every American to support them. Even if only for a day, it would be a powerful statement of unity against a criminal regime.
Impeach!
16
Mitch McConnell and his Republican cronies once again, have surrendered to President Trump’s demands. The President had 2 years to get the wall(s) with all its trimmings but waited until the Democrats took over The House of Representatives to create havoc. He’s shut down the government; tried to pass blame upon the Democrats; is demanding $5.7 billion for the wall and border security; all done to satisfy his base of supporters. Democrats should stand firm against President Trump’s impositions to prevent similar catastrophic events.
President Trump wants to build walls to tear down the principles of our nation; that we are a country of immigrants that stand for liberty and equality for all.
8
If Trump is under orders from Putin to destroy our democracy he is doing an excellent job. Trump will not negotiate; the more chaos the better. It will be up to McConnell to pass a veto proof bill, but that will take quite awhile.
3
The first solution would be for him to get Mexico to build his wall as he promised to do.
The next best solution is comprehensive immigration reform written into law in exchange for wall funding — that will never likely be spent , given the performance of the Trump "government" so far. That way what is really needed is accomplished despite the ongoing chaos.
His wall is the biggest thing he needs — give it to him only in exchange for something as big.
1
“President Trump has put forward a serious and reasonable offer to reform parts of our broken immigration system and reopen government,” Representative Kevin McCarthy, the Republican leader, said on Twitter. “The moment now turns to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. The country is watching.”
A TV campaign speech is not negotiating, nor is it making an offer. It is trump talking at people, but it is not negotiating.
trump using Americans as hostages is a terrorist tactic and republicans supporting this are accomplices to trump terrorist tactics.
If trump is going to negotiate, then meet with the Democrats, state a position backed up with facts, not lies, threats, bullying, and personal vicious attacks and talk back and forth with adult negotiations.
trump had the opportunity twice, both times trump behaved like a 3 year old having a tantrum.
While trump acting like a 3 year old is campaigning and it appeals to trump supporters, it is unproductive childish behaviour.
5
You know, in this whole article, the single sentence that shocked me the most is this one from Scott Jennings:
"McConnell’s view of shutdowns is when you’re in one, it’s a great opportunity for both sides to get things"
This right here, this is the one sentence that lays bare the callousness of Mitch and his ilk.
A government shutdown is a failure of an utter failure of government that reasonably should never, ever happen. A horrendous situation that brings great economic downturn and considerable hardship for millions of americans. In fact, there should be serious talks for legislation that ensures the government NEVER goes into shutdown.
Instead, Mitch's group considers it just another tool in their arsenal to 'get what they want'. This is not a political tool, it is something that endangers people's lives. It's a hostage crisis.
14
Adult leaders would understand that solving problems is an exercise in negotiation, give and take. Are there any adult democrat leaders, or are they all spoiled children sticking their tongues out at President Trump, and stomping their feet?
3
@jaco - As I recall it was Donald Trump who threw a hissy fit and who walked out of the last meeting that he had with Pelosi and Schumer. "My way or the highway" IS NOT negotiating.
5
Hooboy. Oh my goodness. That gave me a good laugh. The tone deaf and completely ironic assertion that the Democrats are the ones acting like children. Now, really, how about the performance thus far of trumps much-bragged-about-but-really-really-REALLY-difficult-to-find-any-real-evidence-of negotiation skills? The greatly bestly ones he claims unendingly yet displays, um, never?
5
If president Trump was the captain of a ship in danger of sinking he would be the first to save himself with a gold personal floating device. Unfortunately gold does not float.Sad.. really sad.
3
Trump decided to show “zero tolerance” at the border and discourage asylum seekers by kidnapping their children. Now he is holding the paychecks of government workers. Trump and the “Freedom” caucus need to learn hostage taking will not be an effective tool now or in the future.
3
"Republicans Push Trump Immigration Plan, Seeking to Corner Democrats on Shutdown."
Has Trump ever explained that when he had the majority in the House and Senate, he never gave any ultimatums about a border wall, could it be that even his loyal republican majority wouldn't vote for it, seeing it for the enormous waste of money that it is. He waits for now, when the democrats have control of the house to bring it up. Because he likes the action, he likes toying with the democrats who he sees as weak and divided. Trump is using a strategy here, is it divide and conquer, he strings a self inflicted emergency along hoping the democrats take the bait, and show their true political leanings, which he believes is leftist-leaning, hoping to splinter the fragile democratic party, leftist from centrist. Trump could care less if 800,000 people aren't getting a paycheck, he has already said that most of them are democrats. Trump only cares about his base, which to be honest has been pretty loyal to him.....so far.
Trump, to use an analogy, is like the head coach of a football team, the players are his loyal base, the people who voted for him. The head coach of a football team always get too much of the blame when a team loses, 90 percent of the time the team loses because it doesn't have winning players, in reality both should be blames equally. Time and time again we put all the blame on Trump, while the people who voted for him get off easy. Both are equally to blame.
1
Being able to hold the Dreamers hostage is a major bargaining chip that trump will never give up. An extension of three years? Ha! We are referring to the people brought here as babies, who have never known any other home but here, never done anything wrong, work, pay taxes, raise families, but will never get Medicare or any government services (even after a lifetime of taxpaying).Keeping them illegal non-citizens gives him a target to scapegoat and is enormously satisfying to his sadistic requirements- which narcissists have a serious and desperate need to express. If they can't cause pain, they feel like they are drowning. Trump will never let them go.
5
If there was no borders crisis the first two years, there isn't one now. Reopen the government and then start legislating.
Republicans in Congress, we are your boss, not trump!
2
Trump was ok with the original deal to keep the government open without his 5.7 downpayment for his 29-30 billion wall until the far right freedom caucus pulled his strings. He keeps forgetting to mention that.
1
Why would the Dems agree to short-term changes in DACA and TPS status in return for building a permanent wall and a lot of money? The DACA people likely will outlive the wall. If the GOP renegs on their part of the agreement, will the wall be dismantled? Unlikely. The GOP leadership has failed to negotiate in good faith often: remember Merrick Garland, Trump's lies, which are too numerous to count, and his capitulation to Coulter and Co. They are dismantling critical aspects of our democracy (look at what is happening in North Carolina and Georgia). The Dems have not been involved in the development of Trump's flawed scheme to re-open the government despite the fact that we are the majority of voters in the country. We have no choice but to stand firm until the process is open and the results verifiable. It is sad that we need to use the same approach in negotiating with the GOP that we use with North Korea, but that is where the GOP has led us).
4
Some commenters appeared to be operating under the impression that President Trump has vetoed the spending bill, which is untrue. The spending bill hasn’t reached his desk. Other commentators allege the president has usurped the Constitution by threatening to veto the spending bill, which is equally untrue.
The Constitution's "Take Care Clause" tasks president to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." U.S. laws directs the president to stop illegal immigration and remove 'illegal aliens" from the country. So in asking for funds to enhance border security, the president is trying to accomplish a task assigned him by the Constitution. Congress has enacted laws making crossing the border without authorization illegal.
The Constitution gives the president veto power over Congressional legislation. In threatening to veto a spending bill that does not include funding for a border wall and enhanced border security, the president is acting in accordance with the Constitution's checks and balances system. If it chooses, Congress can override the veto.
The Constitution provides that revenue bills must originate in the House of Representatives, but does not give the House absolute power over the budget. Spending bills like other bills, require Senate consent and the president's signature. This is part of the Constitution's checks and balances system, which is designed to promote compromise. Rather than compromise, the House has chosen to shut down government.
4
@William Case
Where in the Constitution does it say that the President is obligated to shut down the government when he doesn't get what he wants from the House?
The vast majority of the time, the President negotiates with the House while the government remains open.
3
@Barbara T
The "You Can't Always Get What Your Want" adage also applies to the House of Representatives. The president hasn't vetoed the spending bill; the Senate has rejected it. Time for the House to compromise.
Trump has never vetoed any bill. Previous presidents vetoed dozens.
1
The bill has not reached his desk, because McConnell says he won't bring anything to the Senate that the president won't sign. Hard to override a veto when the Senate leader is complicit in preventing one in the first place. Trump claimed that he was proud to shut down the government. He and McConnell are responsible for the debacle. If Trump was so concerned about upholding his constitutional duties as your post rationalizes, he should have done so when he had the chance the past two years. Anyway, the funding for the wall should not even be an issue since Mexico should be writing a check any day now.
6
trumps base who support the wall don't even realize the wall he does want to put up is only 243 miles. the whole south border is 2,000 miles long. it will be more than two years before this project would even be shovel ready. there are already hundreds of lawsuits that have been filed by the people (especially in texas) who live there since they don't want there land taken away by eminent domain.
one landowner has his well located over where the wall would be? so he would have to cross the border to access his well. how does that make any sense.
there is no deal here that is acceptable by the people who have no paycheck. we cant forget about the lawsuits that have been filed by environmental groups. the monarch butterflies, ocelots and other wildlife will be killed off by this wall.
of course, we cant forget that trump already has made deals about who to get the steel from since there are hardly any steel mills that are open in the u.s.
the steel that is going to be used for the keystone pipeline is already going to come from china. almost all of it that has been constructed in parts of the u.s. (Michigan which has had many leaks into the kalamazoo river)
Before Pruitt left the EPA he drew up a contract that already stated the steel would come from china since that was a project already started. this is one crooked administration. impeachment hearings should be started as they were with Nixon.
2
Congress should propose the art of a deal getting something of value against a mostly symbolic wall. They should provide funding for the wall if Trump joins the Paris environment treaty and reenacts controls on coal fired power plants and reinstates the vehicle fuel mileage standards. Reviewing designs and picking contractors to build the wall would keep Trump busy and out of other trouble for the rest of his presidency.
1
@Art
Unfortunately, the Right is asking for the same gets. Why not hold out for ending abortion, gay marriage, civil rights? Negotiating by hostage is always a disaster.
2
As I recall, Paul Ryan stymied the bills the Senate passed to reopen the government without the wall by refusing to put it to the House for a vote. So I guess Pelosi could do the same to McConnell's bill. But I suspect she will have her democrats in line and will put the bill to them to vote down. And there may be Republicans from areas with many federal employees who will support her. They were there first, they have the much better end of this argument.
And by the way, I hate the heading on this article - "Republicans seeking to Corner Democrats on Shutdown" - how about something like: Republicans Play Politics with the Lives of Federal Employees?
12
Leveraging The Wall into the shutdown negotiations is now backfiring on Trump--and the Republicans who stand with him. Their hard line approach was smoke and mirrors; the American people clearly see there is no crisis. It is obvious The Wall can be negotiated outside that of the shutdown. It is a reasonable approach.
I believe Americans are reasonable people. I believe our Republican Congress is as well, yet they are currently so busy politicizing the fraternal biases of the party it has left them unable to remember what it means to be a reasonable American.
I hope that none can reasonably continue to support the harm Trump's obsessive pursuit of The Wall is causing our own countrymen.
I hope that most can see Trump pursues the matter solely out of fear that failure to succeed in this effort is simply a fear that he is a failure as a man, likely his biggest fear.
This matter is no longer about a win for Team Trump. It is about damage control. Trump and the Republicans are trying to paint as pretty a picture they can on retreat, making concessionary offers that fall flat as they spiral downward.
Trump can no longer truly win regardless of where this goes from here. If he gets The Wall he keeps his extremist core, nothing more.
He has already lost any reasonable American voter that bet on a four-year window that he would rise to the occasion. They lost that bet and I'm pretty sure aren't willing to double down if given the chance.
6
The Wall in exchange for 10 years of federal income tax returns. Surely, all audits have been completed by now.
8
"But Democrats say that is a nonstarter, because it does not offer a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers, and because Mr. Trump is simply giving back protections that he himself took away."
What's funny about that is that Republicans see this as a great deal. and will use it to blame the Democrats. Trump takes away their protections then offers to give 3-year protections at a time. And that's what he calls great negotiations.
4
It’s not a demand but an opening gambit. By refusing to negotiate, the Dems are falling into it. He can almost count on them to play his game, and they do it again and again. It’s almost sad.
2
What frustrates me about all of this is that the president seems to think he is part of the Legislative Branch. The negotiating should be among and between the two houses of Congress. The president is then free to sign or veto any bills that cross his desk. In this respect, then, it is not the Trump Shutdown. It is the McConnel Shutdown, as he will not even take up any measures that come from the House that he feels the president will not sign. Fair enough, Mitch. Then it is up to you to do your job and conference with the House until you can get something done. Before that happens, MM is not a leader, but merely a follower of Trump and at least co-owner of the shutdown.
16
@totyson
The Constitution gives the president veto power. Trump is not attempting to legislate. He is exercising the power granting him by the Constitution. The concessions he offered do not require legislations. He can accomplish them by executive orders or simple directives to federal fences. For example, he can extend DACA and TPS.
3
The Rio Grande is the border between Texas and Mexico.
Is it wise, from the standpoint of the Texans who use the river, to wall it off?
Of course, Mexico is supposed to pay for the wall, but maybe it's better to say "No thank you" on this.
4
Shame on the President for how he needlessly shut down the government. But shame on the democrats for not doing all that they can to re-open it. Trump has hung so much on the wall. He needs it so much that it has made him vulnerable. So why are democrats not negotiating to get what they want?
3
what's the possible offer? a temporary DACA protection in exchange for a wall? it's not a fair position to say "do this or I'll shut down the government "
What about shame on each of US, diverse as we are/ may be, for enabling all of this to occur! To go on. By complacency! By complicity! we the People continue to “ trump” ourselves, daily, as we focus on Trump, as person and President!
1
Republican motto. "Party over country". Is that how they are "Making America Great Again."
9
It is rich for the Democrats to say they won't negotiate with Trump because he is using hostages.
That is exactly how the Democrats are treating 800,000 American Federal workers and 3.6 Million Dreamers -- as hostages.
If you refuse to compromise, if you refuse to negotiate without preconditions, Madam Speaker, you are part of the problem.
10
@Frank
The Dems aren't holding anyone "hostage." They passed spending bills to reopen the govt; McConnell wouldn't even allow a vote on them. They presented Trump with deals to exchange DACA protection for $25billion for the Wall; he turned it down.
The blame for this falls totally on Trump and McConnell.
12
Mr. Trump owns this as he has proudly stated. Trump had agreed to sign the CR then reneged when Ann Coulter and Rush called him on it. So the blame lies with Trump and his two senior advisors.
1
@Frank
Trump took the hostages, McConnell is complicit. If the Democrats compromise, what is to prevent this from happening again and again?
5
Stay strong, Dems. Do not cave to this cynical political manipulation.
22
This is actually an opportunity for The Democrats. The Senate will no doubt pass the proposal, but it has to go back to the House for their approval. This presents to opportunity to open serious negotiations. It is shabby move by the republicans and Trump. But nothing new.
9
McConnell is just another in the long list of segregationist Senators like Strom Thurmond and Richard Russell. America ultimately faced them down as the House must now face down today's reactionaries.
19
The sooner that the GOP in Congress realizes that the MUST
side with the people AND their Constitutional responsibility to
take their oaths of office very seriously ; that is to Protect and
Defend ...we the people ...and not to protect and defend themselves and certainly not a mentally ill President...then
we will be able to …
Preserve our Republic...so it is entirely up to the GOP to act now...and use Amendment 25: Section 4 of the US Constitution to dismiss Trump from office...
8
Thought Mexico was going to pay? Also for this "emergency", the GOP had two years of complete government control and never got it done.
27
I applaud the Senate Majority Leader - about time Congress actually did something.
Madame Speaker is becoming Yasser Arafat.
He never lost a chance to throw an opportunity away - and he made it personal.
For Madame Speaker to reject this offer even before it was offered - is very telling.
It is also telling that she is now holding a personal grudge against POTUS for cancelling her junket.
It's time to rise above high school behavior
And Madame Speaker should realize that this whole "wall" may not get built on his watch - even if he is reelected - which I hope so.
Otherwise, we will have open borders - and none of this money will be spent.
He campaigned on this signature issue - and he needs to stick to it.
Otherwise, he is a one termer like the 41st of read my lips.
And as a Republican - if he breaks his word over this - I may not vote Democrat - but would be hard pressed not to abstain.
5
@Neil--Even if Trump's proposal goes through and he gets his wall funding, no wall will be constructed for years. As soon as the vote passes, the land owners along the Texas/Mexico border will be filing suits to fight the taking of their property for the wall. Those fights will go on for years. Many conservatives in Congress are dead set against the government taking private property. There will be no wall even by the time Trump leaves office in 2020, and for years beyond that. It's an empty gesture to satisfy the Trump crowd, and it appears you've fallen for it. If you want real immigration improvements then the wall is not your answer.
3
Please, please abstain then. To much ignorance is expressed in republican votes as it is. Cruz in Texas, Trump in Washington. Phony arguments about “open borders” and “walls” that are nothing about security and everything about political posturing and a “win” for Trump. I find your reference to Bush Sr. telling, whatever else can be said about his presidency his ability to change his mind and adapt to challenges as they were instead of mindlessly adhering to conservative orthodoxy was not the negative you implied. Trump needs to keep the hysteria about “open borders and walls” going, he and his cohort of reactionary conservatives have little else to offer the rest of us besides a polluted environment and an economy that serves the wealthy foremost. So the minority of the nation comfortable with Trumpian chaos and corruption will continue to support Putin’s sock puppet and its doubtful any will abstain. Now that as the Donald would say is “sad”.
1
“....she is now holding a personal grudge again” the president. So are most of us.
2
No to Trump's hollow deal. No to a deal with an irrational tyrant. Yes to a permanent DACA solution and a reopening of the government while we discuss border security. Absolutely no to having the DACA Americans living on edge for three years while Trump plays cat and mouse with them. No to a useless, senseless wall that was invented in the minds of Trump's handlers to keep him on message in campaign rallies. No to Trumpism, Trumpists, and the whole lousy mess.
16
@Todd Permanent citizenship for Dreamers isn't and won't be on the table because Trump and McConnell can't get the votes for it. The immigration hardliners are OK with building the wall, but they know it is not necessary and therefore are not willing to give anything up to get it.
1
The wall is a permanent object. Once up, its implications will be felt for a century or more. TEMPORARY protection for DACA applicants in exchange is completely unacceptable. Permanent for permanent. Unless you can make a wall that dissolves in 3 years, the Dems MUST walk away.
13
Trump conceded he did not want a wall from “sea to sea” but only for 200 miles. That is an opening. Democrats should seek details on that offer and try to work with it.
The compromise point is to agree on more border security based on objective criteria establishing needs, include something resembling a barrier where it will actually be effective that lets Trump say he won and let’s Pelosi say she won.
The art of negotiations is reaching mutual interest satisfaction, i.e., getting to a win-win deal. But Trump only likes zero sum, win-lose outcomes. Pelosi needs to embrace win-win too. Trump put himself in a corner, but Pelosi can help him save face, which is his principal interest, while achieving her interests.
If both can be persuaded to shift to a win-win objective, there could be hope. In the meantime, the whole country is losing, for which both sides will pay.
3
The idea that its about winners and losers and Trump's ego IS the cause of the problems. Tweeting threats to the Speaker, u-turns based on the airheads at Fox and friends , its got to stop.
An intelligent person may want to consider governing for all Americans
6
Shutting down the government as an opening gambit to any form of negotiation is simply a non-starter...
- if the Republicans cared so much about the wall and immigration why didn’t they do more over the last two years? Why isn’t Mexico paying now?
- Donald Trump is unreliable and ignorant. He proves this every day. It’s a huge tragedy that 800,000 (!!!) Federal Enployees are pawns in his “game” but who can negotiate in good faith with him? He’s like a mean, rich 5 year-old with about 6 major personality disorders. Give him an inch now and he will take a yard in a few weeks or months.
- Entropy is setting in on the Republican Party. Whether or not you want to govern, people need government that is effective. The “beast” of government has been “starved” for over three decades. At some point government needs to grow and adapt to serve a growing population. The Republicans have had no new ideas in decades and the one or two ideas that have fueled the party for so long are now proving - to the population at large - to be useful only to the very wealthy.
13
The DACA "deal" is a nothing burger. The courts have ruled DACA remain in place in its original form, despite the attempt to eliminate it (trump "repealed" it). SCOTUS will probably NOT even hear the case. So trading a temporary extension to DACA people for his misguided, foolish wall, is trading nothing.
6
We all know that Trump is incorrigible.
What the last two years has taught the nation is that (most) Republican leaders are also lacking any truly redeeming qualities.
Democrats should NOT give in to this bully. As others have said, "we don't negotiate with terrorists."
And, please Dems, ensure that the American people understand what's happening! I love Nancy Pelosi but perhaps a more articulate representative could convey - in straightforward terms that most Americans could comprehend - what Trump and his cronies are doing here.
The chaos must end...
2
"Mexico will pay for the wall". Well, let Mexico pay for it. Plus, The Donald had 2 years to get his wall funding approved and didn't bother. Now he has a fall guy, the Democrats. Donald tells his base that's it's the Democrats' fault there isn't funding for his wall. And if you think $5.7 billion is all they need for a wall, then there's a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.
5
@Will
Your focus on an unkept campaign promise made years ago is typical of the obstinance that has shut down the government. Border wall funding would amount to less than one percent of the budget. Democrats would gladly provide funding if the president were a Democrat.
1
Trump's "offer" is contemptuous! Government shutdown and immigration reform are not related issues. Re-opening the government is not controversial and can be done immediately with a continuing resolution. Immigration reform is controversial and needs to evolve over time through deliberation and negotiation.
At this point, simply restoring government funding is not enough. The government employees who were deprived of a paycheck should be compensated for their unwarranted hardship and expense. Every government employee who was deprived of a paycheck should receive a $500 bonus, and every employee who worked without pay should receive an additional $500 bonus.
4
McConnell should bring up the legislation proposed by the Democrats that is also aimed at opening the government. He won't do that, for fear some Republicans might go along with it (which some have indicated they would). If anyone is irrational and a log jam to negotiations, it is McConnell. He's the one that should be impeached and removed from office, so Congress can once again do what it was elected to do.
6
Just over fifty years ago I was engaged in a discussion with a neighbor about the unrest in the country, about the noise of revolution that was tearing the country, splitting the country's passion for democracy, and spilling blood on the streets and college campuses. My friend was unmoved by those events. He argued that he would be okay if the nation descended into chaos; he worked for the IRS.
The future of our politic is not in government, not in survival kits stored away in the basement, not in riot, but in our discourse. That will end when the autocrat's foot is on our throat. There is nothing funny in this fight. Only the nervous laughter of fear.
4