Trump “storms out”????
Ever-increasing hyperbole with ever-diminishing returns exposed the Left ages ago as deranged.
Time for the Left to try a new tactic, don’t you think?
From naïf to fossil, Trump has played the Left for fools.
“American” Gothic.” Perfect.
1
I don´t see or hear any journalist mention the obvious projection that Mr Trump practices continually. What ever he does he blames others for and even gives you his own opinion about how he feels about it. ie. The Democrats´"intransigence".......talk about pot calling the kettle!!!!
2
I do not want $5 billion of my tax dollars spent on a wall that I believe will do little to impede illegal immigrants. I find our current president to be very disrespectful to our government and how it was structured. He acts like a spoiled brat - if you won’t do it my way, I won’t share my toys with you. It’s disgusting and shameful. He doesn’t want a compromise, he wants it his way period. Shutting down the government and having so many hard working people lose their paychecks is spiteful, and in my opinion, totally his fault and responsibility. Although, responsibility does not appear to be a word he recognizes. It frightens me how he is destroying our government.
10
Were the writers in the meeting? Do they know whether the President 'slammed' a table or 'stormed' out of the meeting OR are they simply parroting Schumer and Pelosi comments?
Imagine… questing all the politically correct rhetorical mumbo-jumbo we suffer daily! Or questing political wunderkinds and their political allies with the mainstream news media regards their daily efforts to pander to their socialist dreams, the vote and illegals illegally crossing our southern boarder 24/7.
Imagine… all the cunning efforts of these socialist schemers and dreamers might have gone unnoticed, if not for the sad realities and side effects of their grandiose schemes producing a government shutdown imposing hardships on their ideas of nonessential government employees.
Imagine… questing rhetorical madness, or questing the daily onslaught of slaughter and mayhem across America or the resulting deaths of Police Officers and American citizens caused by troubling numbers of third world malcontents. The daily carnage resembles the antics you might expect to find in a third-rate brothel or boudoir run by gangsters; rather than political servants representing a democratic nation.
Imagine… if that’s not enough to turn your stomach; these same political correct wunderkinds are doing their best to destroy a cake baker for not bending to their notions of decorating whims. I mean think about it for a moment or two this same Baker has been dragged into every court in the land regards his notions and rights regards baking and decorating cakes to include the Supreme Court, and has won.
Mature, level-headed adults simply do not storm out of a room when they don’t get what they want. This is not leadership. Make America Grown-up Again!
3
He's enjoying his powerplay of a shutdown government and had no intention of negotiating anyway...
3
Trump can have his wall provided he:
1. Explore barrier designs elsewhere and see if they are suitable, for example the Gaza wall in Israel. There are likely existing ideas out there that are just fine.
2. For example, take a look at the multiple fences and security technology surrounding PF4 at Los Alamos National Laboratory. PF refers to "Plutonium Facility". Believe me, they have gone to no end to keep bad guys out. These fences, with their accompanying technology, seem a lot cheaper than a 30 foot wall.
3. Funds are to come from the military only, not from any other sources like welfare, infrastructure, Medicare, education, science, or medicine.
4. Try to solve the current crisis by letting the existing refugees in and disperse them to assistance facilities around the country. Treat them well and you can expect them to become fine citizens.
5. Prevent further refugee migrations by trying to assist Central American countries with their problems of poverty, crime, and corruption. This can be a joint effort with Mexico and other countries affected by refugees.
6. Explore decriminalizing all drugs. This should lower prices and discourage bad guys from getting involved in the trade. It worked in Portugal. Take a look at what they did. Drug abuse would then be reduced to a medical and personal problem.
These problems can be solved. But not with bombast. Better to follow that line from the Moody Blues song: "Thinking is the only way to travel".
2
This is Trump's shutdown but also McConnell's. Without McConnell, Trump would be forced to veto a bill supported by his own party.
4
Our enemies are watching this drama unfold with rapt interest and see our division as a great weakness. Need more be said?
5
Let's stop saying that Trump wants to build the Wall to keep his campaign promise. In his lifetime, Spoiled Brat Donald has never cared about keeping his word. What about keeping his campaign promise on creating the best health care insurance the world has ever seen with the lowest premiums? What about his promise to invest in re-building America's crumbling infrastructure? Indeed, what about his promise that Mexico will pay for the Wall? No, this is not about fulfilling a promise. This is about vanity - Trump wants to build himself a monument grander than the Jefferson or the Lincoln Memorial. This is how he would like to leave his mark in history. So, let's not dignify him by saying that he wants to keep a promise, because he never does.
11
"In the meeting, she urged the president to reconsider an earlier deal that would have given him $25 billion for a wall in exchange for permanent protections for young undocumented immigrants brought into the country as children, according to Republicans familiar with the exchange.
The president dismissed the idea."
WHY?
6
I am a life long democrat and hardly a supporter of anything “Trump.” But on this particular issue I don’t understand what the Democrats are doing. Trying to behave even worse than the Reuplicans did when they enjoyed a majority in the House...or McConnel’s despicable insistent refusal to consider President Obama’s opportunity to nominate a Supreme Court Justice after Scalia’s death?
Like many others, I am in favor of immigration and giving so many of those who would love the opportunity to build lives here in the USA a chance. But I really cannot understand the endorsement of illegal immigration. We are all expected to follow the rules of law. People are languishing in Riker’s Island for misdemeanors like turnstile jumping on a subway...for three dollars! They broke the law. I see college kids arrested for a bottle of beer. It’s the law, we are told.
But what about the laws regarding immigration and methods by which an non-citizen can enter the US legally. I have a British friend with a PhD from Cambridge who must leave the country every year in order to maintain his right to re-enter the US legally. I have a friend from Poland who says winning a green card by lottery is the greatest thing ever to have happened.
So why isn’t it dead wrong to disallow illegal immigration. Perhaps it’s a broken and flawed system Many citizens suffer from many broken programs from the cost of college education to getting so benefits. But the law cannot be dispensed for one group only.
3
Democrats are not for illegal immigration, but realize a wall is not going to solve the issue, only give Trump another weapon that he wins.
7
First off, you’re a Trumpist, okay? The claim about not being one is diagnostic.
Second off, nobody’s arguing for letting everybody just stroll on in. That’s an accusation Trumpists make, is all.
Third off, OF COURSE we need reasonable immigration laws and enforcement. We cut deals on this in 2005. And 2013. And a year and a half ago, on the more limited case of wall vs. dreamers. Congress cut a very limited deal only last month. And every...single...time, the wacko-birds blew the deals up.
Fourth. You say we have laws. True. And among those laws, we have LAWS requiring that those who ask for refugee status get limited help, and a hearing. We have also signed at least two major treaties to that effect, in case you care about that. Doesn’t promise more. Just some help, and a fair hearing.
Whoop, de, do. Sorry you object.
Myself, this garbage? Makes me ashamed to be an American. And so we all should be.
4
Dispensing with the rhetoric, Trump's position in this negotiation boils down to this: I'll give you what you want, if and when I get what I want.
Which sounds not so unreasonable--until you realize the implication is: the Democrats want to end the shut-down--he doesn't.
This, in my view, is an indefensible position for the leader of a shuttered government to take, but then Trump and his tea-party/freedom caucus ilk have in essence been trying to shut down the government from the beginning, haven't they.
10
Leadership does not come from storming out of a meeting when a desired outcome isn't readily available. Unfortunately, Trump possesess zero leadership qualities.
6
You cannot use the power of the presidency to CREATE a "national emergency and humanitarian crisis" then declare an "emergency" to get your way around Congress to fulfill a political promise.
If he tries it - ARREST HIM IMMEDIATELY!
8
Senator Cornyn of Texas better check his history. Franklin said that in 1776, not 1787. If someone else mentioned this, sorry.
2
@joe from Philly...Franklin's quote from 1787 bears repeating considering the current tectonic schisms in this country...."Outside Independence Hall when the Constitutional Convention of 1787 ended, Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, "Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, "A republic, if you can keep it."...Lincoln's quote regarding a house divided against itself might bear some reflection at this time, also.
1
President Reagan used the same tactic against Gorbachev in Reykjavik. Remember who won in the end?
2
People who enter on an airplane and overstay their visas were identified l, met the standards for a Visa, and were subject to customs inspection and questioning. It is likely to exclude the worst criminals, those who have seen deported multiple times, and those with large quantities of drugs.
There are NO standards standards for those who bypass ports of entry and that why they are the most important stop.
A barrier specifically impedes the type of entries that have met no standards and were subjected to no scrutiny. The number for Visa overstays may be higher, but the Visa overstayer met entry standards and was subject to inspection and questioning.
We need a physical barrier whether or not we get the many other desirable changes. Once the border is controlled there will be incentives for improved migration programs including guest workers, and mandatory E-Verify.
The value of any border laws is the ability to enforce them and barriers are a critical part of an enforcement package. Anything we do to improve port of entry screening like better drug detection will simple shift entry to non-port of entry locations until we have robust barriers, and yes sensors. The physical barrier is a must whether we get the other improvements, including guest worker programs.
Border security including illegal immigration has been a problem for decades and it is time to solve it!
4
@John Just saw the picture of the steel slats that President Trump specifically selected to be used. Except, this picture was of the slats breached with a saw you can buy at Home Depot. Easily breached. The argument then becomes, oh this will delay the time it takes to come across. Delay? They won't come with a common saw when they're serious. They'll get through in fifteen minutes and poof, gone.
"Oh, but the other measures to be implemented will see this and track them down."
Wait, then the other measures to be implemented should be able to see them in the first place, barrier or no barrier. Why, then, spend $5.7 billion on the barrier? That makes absolutely no sense!
Spend more billions on the other measures, and include more resources to track visa holders (most of the real problem). Enact harsher penalties on businesses that employ undocumented workers (the biggest part of the rest of the problem). Illegal entrant commits a crime, is deported, comes in again and commits a crime: 20 years in prison (addresses just about all that's left of the problem that can reasonably be done and isn't already happening).
"The physical barrier is a must whether we get the other improvements, including guest worker programs."
Actually, physical barrier becomes irrelevant if we properly do the other improvements, including guest worker programs. Or spend $150 billion to try to inviolably control illegal entry, if that's the true aim. Physical barrier is the least of that.
8
@Barry Williams...I wonder why the wall in California hasn't been completely dismantled already since it's so easy to pick up a cheap tool at the local hardware store and snip right through? As an added incentive to border crashers, all of that iron can be sold as salvage. The last time I sold iron at the local junk yard, it was $130/ton.
2
I'm shocked that no one is reacting to the polling numbers that a full 33% of Americans are blaming the Democrates for the government shut down. Trump had 2 years to get his wall - 2 years of a fully Republican Congress - no opposition. Yet he chose to wait until AFTER the Republicans lost control of the House. This is a complete political stall technique to appeal to his base and try to make the other party look bad.
I despise the man and all he stands for, yet can't help but continue to be amazed at how well he is disrupting the way our government and the President is expected to act. I predict he will declare an Emergency since technically he is allowed to do so even though no previous President would have done it (just like he didn't release his tax returns because he WASN'T legally required to do so). This will allow him to keep his base happy, make the Dems look bad and let the Republicans off scott free. Our government is so broken and he's making hay off of it.
40
@KLM
That leaves 67% of Americans who are not blaming the Democrats. Twice as many.
8
@KLM The 33% of those blaming the Democrats are part of Trump's base. Didn't Trump say he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and they'd still support him? Well, why then, wouldn't they simply blame the Dems - Trump does.
5
Baby, Baby, stick your head in gravy! This is what it has come down to, hasn't it? Master Trump has no conception of what it is to earn a living, to travel within safety restrictions, to know that where he and his family is going will be clean, never mind medication, doctors, hospitals, etc., that concern we peons, and a myriad of other things that will include middle-class concerns.
He has no clue that the mortgage companies do not care that there isn't a paycheck to compensate for their non-payment, or landlords need that money for the same reason, the light and gas companies do not care either, the big food stores want their money as well - Master Trump, billionaire that you are, can you fund these folks? The Republican Senate can you actually support this line of reasoning?
Open the government and then start negotiating. Has anyone actually spoken about electronic usage for border security? After all, toys employ electronic security. I am certain we are able to do something on a grander scale.
4
Plenty of focusing on political theater but how about focusing more on Policy Merits.
Clearly everything the Federal government has done to control the border has had the end result of millions here illagally, drugs entering the country, and human trafficking. In other words, it has not competently addressed the problem making me wonder if many in Congress don't want a secure border in part because of an open borders ideology.
Open borders can mean cheap unskilled labor and many people from third world countries having jobs. It also mean fewer jobs and lower wages for our own unskilled forcing them out of the work force and onto the Safety net.
People point out that many here illegally arrived on planes. Unlike border crossers those people had to meet the standards to get a Visa and were subject to customs inspections. I assume this excludes deportees and serious known criminals. Entering outside a port of entry has no standards and is not subject to customs inspections. On this basis I expect they are the most important to contol.
There are claims that drugs often enter through ports on entry. if that is the case improved screening technology at ports on entry will simply move the problem to unofficial entry points. A fence or wall can surely impede illegal crossings given agents time to intervene. You can't drive over a wall and it is difficult to get over a well built barrier.
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@John
Sophistry. Rationalizing. Weak.
2
If anyone know spite, it's Mitch McConnell - oh, and maybe Judge Merrick Garland. Congressional Democrats should be just like Mitch and do nothing.
2
This is one way to drain the swamp.
BY driving out the actual workers so we are left with only the snakes?
3
We need cameras in those meetings. Considerable disagreement from others besides Pelosi and Schumer as to what happened and whether there was slamming and storming.
1
Democrats, and the country, should be glad Nancy Pelosi is Speaker. She is experienced, seasoned, and tough enough to deal with the tantrums of a 72 year old brat who has gotten away with nonsense all his life. Now he is projecting his madness on the entire country.
With this level of cruelty, there's no doubt in another country Trump would be a murderous dictator in the likes of Saddam, Assad, Kim, and Idi Amin. Especially, the egotistical blood-thirsty Idi Amin.
6
This is weird. Why is the senate leader, Mitch McConnell, not bringing any bills to the floor to aid in reopening the government? His he trying to make the senate extinct? Well, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem and own it.
8
The mistake the President made was not serving Giardelli chocolate and Junior’s cheesecake instead of butterfingers, m&ms and baby ruths.
It is not surprising that Chris Christie and Trump are friends.
Chris Christie didn't want to raise the NJ gas tax to pay for new tunnels under Hudson, because he wanted to run for President. And to be the Republican candidate you have to be "tough on taxes". Anti-taxes.
So he cancelled the Hudson tunnel project because he put his présidentielle ambitions before the interests of people that live in NJ and work in Manhattan.
He was more worried about what he wanted to do than what was best for the people of New Jersey.
Trump too... same thing ... the wall was a campaign promise he made, a sentence he repeated often, and now he wants to be a two term president.
That's all.
He couldn't care less about the nation. No more than Christie cares about people in New Jersey.
6
..."but the president was dismissive." What did Trump say? Where is the transcript for this meeting? America's government is not very transparent. Also, I think this two-party mentality held by most Americans must end. That's America's most urgent problem. "Art of the deal?" That's nothing more than a myth. Trump is a myth just like your Obama was. Americans are the fools that eat this stuff up.
1
Let’s compromise. Let’s give him a pretty picket fence.
3
Good idea. How about a cactus fence.
2
Oh please! We all know he threw a temper tantrum! He's been throwing one for two years!
6
Two guys seem to want the wall, Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell - both parties in Congress know it’s a smoke screen to bury ongoing investigation of the President and an example of Trump’s anger at ’deep government ‘, generally low-wage (compared to private industry) jobs filled by people dedicated to serving our government and making it work., who he considers linked in loyalty to the Democrats because they tell him when he can’t do as he wishes.
During the 1950s, science fiction pulps sometimes were filled with stories of effective governments and corporations which were run by a board of “no-men” the opposite to the boards of “yes-men” seen as running inefficient US enterprises.
The Heinlein/van Vogt/Gernsback folks seem to have found their parallel in a bureaucracy being run by a thin-skinned compulsive liar more interested in his money than the nation.
Trump issues order, and the no-folks say “you can’t do that - it’s illegal, or, as John Bolton showed in his actions against the Syria pullout, downright stupid and dangerous.
No wonder he believes he’s surrounded by opponents- hard working people who just want to obey the laws and institutions of the nation- how horrid!
2
Those Republican Senators who still believe that their country must come before their party are called on to declare independence from Trump and McConnell. Not only does the nation require it, but so too does the future of the Republican Party. Your captains are scuttling the ship. Mutiny, or go down with them.
9
Where do expect to find them? If there were any elected Republicans with a shred of integrity and concern for the country we might not be in this mess.
1
What worked in a world where you name was on the door does not in a real world. This may be the first time he has been told no by people he cannot coerce or persuade or bribe. He is literally out of his element
8
Did the NYT actually take the word of Democrats that Trump "stormed out of the meeting?"
Republicans in the same meeting say that nothing of the sort happened.
Trump asked Pelosi if she were willing to negotiate on the border barrier and she said NO. He replied "Bye bye," and then left a meeting that would be a waste of time.
That is not "storming out" in a "tantrum."
1
But if you think about it for long, you realize it really is a tantrum, when it’s anyone older than 6 doing it. Especially a so-called Master Negotiator.
4
Those particular Republicans are hand-picked Trump loyalists who lie almost as much as he does.
Like her or not, Speaker Pelosi has a far better record for accuracy than Donald Trump.
Trump’s plans have been rejected by what is effectively 50% in the Senate- the ones who said NO last year. The old House agreed to a “compromise” but the majority of those folks lost their jobs.
Trump and his loyalists insist that only the Executive section of the US government has power, the lawmakers and justices belong to lesser branches.
Until Trump learns thar he is not the Head of Government nor really the head of state, the poor boy, born with a diamond-encrusted gold spoon in his mouth - who always got whatever he wanted from Daddy, accepts power sharing, he will eventually offend so many Congress Members that Mcconnell will be shut down by a 2/3rds vote to suspend the rules - passed by more than half his party members and all the Democrats -?he will be forced to watch government finance bills passed by a veto-proof majority with no barrier money. And half the Republicans in the House.
3
Sometimes I wonder just what dirt Trump has on McConnell. I know McConnell is a hardliner and all that...but he is invisible when he should be providing leadership, even if it is leadership I personally don't like. Instead they have Graham out there because we all know what they have on him and who cares.
But McConnell? Something is up. I just hope I live long enough to read the book.
9
That, and the Senator could use some brushing up on his communication skills: his comments at yesterday's press briefing were inaudible as he mumbled softly while turning his face to the side...oh - wait - now I get it: the American public was not supposed to hear what he was saying!
2
Won't Trump's visit provoke and inflame an already tense situation at the border? This will only serve to feed into his inflammatory rhetoric. Someone needs to monitor the situation for agitators and either talk some sense into them or identify who sent them. It's sad and frightening that our politics have devolved to this point
1
We don't need to be completely Trump-obsessed, but we do need to be Trump-concerned. While praising the intelligence of the American electorate, Trump secretly knows that they can be led around like bulls with nose rings - only instead of bullrings, he uses their beliefs and prejudices to lead them wherever he wants.
If DJT doesn't destroy our fragile democracy, he has published the blueprint and playbook for some other demagogue to do it later. If a democracy like America's is going to exist, there will have to be a paradigm shift in human thought throughout the world.
In the near future, we will program the human mind in the computer based on a linguistic "survival" algorithm, which will provide irrefutable proof as to how we trick the mind with our ridiculous beliefs about what is supposed to survive - producing minds programmed de facto for destruction. These minds see the survival of a particular belief as more important than the survival of all. When we understand this, we will begin the long trek back to reason and sanity.
See RevolutionOfReason.com
1
“...purely partisan spite,” Mr. McConnell?
If memory serves, you are the supreme and magnificent simulacrum of “partisan spite.” Or, was your animus toward the 44th president based upon ideological differences? Or was it based upon something else entirely?
You are a hypocrite of the first water. You have sided with your president in his perverse quest to create a mythical golden calf to which we should all fall upon our knees in abject adoration—to this awful president.
Your sworn duty is to the United States Constitution—not to a single individual— an oath that you have assiduously violated with “partisan spite” as your Virgil down the road to certain damnation.
Your legacy is fixed, and no sane person would go anywhere near the cesspool that will forever define your rancid political career. Unless, of course, it is the president whose company you desire as you both approach your freezing, eternal reward as told in Dante’s “Inferno,” the ninth and final circle of hell, the resting place of those great betrayers of their oaths to God and to country.
2500
@Red Sox, '04, '07, '13, ‘18, Mitch McConnell is perhaps the most cynical, hypocritical and damaging individual to have served as Senate Majority "Leader" in my lifetime.
366
@Red Sox, '04, '07, '13, ‘18, I doubt that McConnell will read this, Red Sox, but one or two of his aids will and perhaps, in turn, they will feel the chill.
157
@Red Sox, '04, '07, '13, ‘18, Well said
91
How about shutting down the federal payroll at the congressional level?? It wouldn't take long for them all to cave!!
9
That means the border is not that dangerous or Secret Service would not allow the president to go. So how is Trump going to invoke emergency powers to build the wall? I know I might regret I asked.
5
Maybe Trump will reopen the government on Day 22 of the shutdown, having finally secured his "win" by beating Clinton's 21 day record.
10
His true cowardliness is shining brightly for the whole world to see!
10
Well, I guess we now know the answer to the question “Can anybody be president?”
16
Trump’s twofer: (1) using his political power to try to force Congress to spend American taxpayer’s dollars on a hideously ugly border wall to stand as an homage to his racism and xenophobia, a wall that will not serve as an effective immigration policy; and (2) the power-tripping joy ride of holding on to the earnings of hundreds of thousands of dedicated federal employees, forcing them (at least temporarily) to work like slaves who must labor without compensation. I call on Congress promptly to put a stop to Trump’s egomaniacal playing of games with the American people.
16
"Though Senate Republicans had not reached a point of direct intervention yet, he said, 'we’re getting pretty close.'"
Sooooooo ... what exactly will it take? Senior citizens being thrown out of nursing homes? Children starving to death? The stock market dropping by 10,000 points? Tell us, Republicans, what exactly is your red line in playing with the lives of 800,000 Federal employees and millions more Americans?
20
Add some money for high tech border security that all agree on, let Trump call it a “virtual wall” and be done with it.
7
Trump is about as adept at negotiation as my cat is at neurosurgery. He is absolutely clueless, fully accustomed to his minions nodding in the affirmative every time he offers an opinion. But this is government, and the stakes are immeasurably higher. If the GOP cares one iota about this country, they will meet among themselves and seriously consider how to invoke Article 25. Trump is a danger to himself, to his party, to his country, and to the world. He is patently unfit, mentally and emotionally. He’s beyond over his head, and needs to be institutionalized immediately. Until that happens, we can expect more turmoil, anarchy and upheaval. This is the national emergency that needs everyone’s attention, posthaste.
18
Last night individual 1 said Mexico is in effect paying for his wall. If that's true, why does he need my (taxpayer) money? Could it be that the man lies?
14
Putin is just smiling ear to ear. The US is out of Asia and the Middle East. trump's government is imploding. The US economy is choking from self-tampering. Future monies drained from the military budget for "a wall", weakens the morale of US military and reserves already under stress from deployments and non-training. America has lost all respect, both domestic and abroad, when our leader's world-wide reputation is trash. Putin just loves it. Mission Accomplished.
19
Paraphrasing. Rubio...we can’t allow him to lose his leverage. Graham, if doesn’t get the wall, he’s finished, the party is finished. McConnell, I just say they’re doing whatever I’ve done (see partisan spite), and pretend I am not a wimp, hypocrite, and culprit. Literally, extorting the government and American people to fulfill an absurd campaign promise to look good. This is somehow acceptable to republicans? They think it’ll all work out. Playing with fire...
13
Trump lives in his world of superlatives so it was a given that this would have to be the longest shutdown in history. It has to last at least 22 days to beat Clinton's 21.
6
The government is shut down. The press needs to stop all coverage of Trump until it reopens. When the Don realizes he is getting no attention, he'll quickly agree to anything! My neighbors are looking for other work and want the right to vote!
7
Senator Cornyn (Texas) demonstrates the knowledge of history that many Republicans seem to have. Benjamin Franklin supposedly said this at the signing of the Declaration of Independence (at the Second Continental Congress), not at the Constitutional Convention. He knew that what they were doing was treasonous and therefore they all faced the risk of being tried by the British and be sentenced to hanging. Why would he make such a statement after gaining independence, especially when trying to fix the non-working Articles of Confederations?
4
The Dems really do not care about the security of the average American. Read the article of parents who have had their children killed by illegals (many of them deported numerous times). The Dems will give billions to dictators around the world. Obama said it very well:
The American people are a welcoming and generous people. But those who enter our country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law. And because we live in an age where terrorists are challenging our borders, we simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked. Americans are right to demand better border security and better enforcement of the immigration laws.
Barack Obama April 3, 2006
5
This has no relationship with reality.
7
You need to actually LISTEN to what the Dems are saying about the border security they very much want so that all Americans are protected.
STOP listening to the nonsensical tantrums of one man insisting upon his one and ONLY idea for optimizing southern border security.
Read and learn. You are here at the Times. Keep reading please. Everything you need to get good information on what is happening is right here. You can cross check with other reputable sites like WaPo, NPR, Politico, CNN, PBS, BBC (yes the world is watching this fiasco) and many more.
Because guess what? The press isn’t the enemy of the people. They’re an implement of freedom.
That’s what 45 can’t stand and it’s wonderful.
5
@Jonathan
Republicans don't seem to care about the parents whose children, wives, husbands, friends who have been killed at the hands of American-born white young males. These murders vastly outnumber those by illegals.
1
Pelosi said walls are immoral. The only moral response is for her, Warren and Schumer to sponsor funding to tear them all down. Anything less would be hypocritical.
4
Trump told his sycophants Mexico would pay for the wall, many, many times. Why is he now asking taxpayers? I thought Trump was fabulously wealthy, why not pony up the $5B himself?
8
Dear Senators Murkowski and Collins (and other moderate Republicans): you are hurting Americans. You are failing to serve and protect Americans. You are actually working to hurt Americans. You have the opportunity and responsibility to be the adults in the room, but instead you are going along with and enabling the President’s infantile and spiteful behavior.
8
“I was able to raise the issues that I have with using a shutdown,” Ms. Murkowski said. “He listened and urged that we all stick together.”
That’s it? Is this where senator’s duty stops? Stick with a moronic president who thinks all negotiations are same as when he was stiffing small time contractors and architects?
And I can hear crickets from McConnell’s office. Anyone knows where is he hiding?
13
He slammed the desk...he didn’t slam the desk. He raised his voice...he didn’t raise his voice. Believe Trump and his lackeys? Not for a second but why not subject these meetings to full live recordings so we’d at least know who said and did what? Then they’d have to lie about what has been recorded. So much time, effort & money wasted while good, hard working people suffer. Really unconscionable!
7
Equally pathetic to the Wall issue and the Presidents boorish behavior, is the Democrats absence of a material counter proposal, backed by a credible feasibility study. Bullet points via deadwood rhetoric by the same tired character (Pelosi) isn't resonating and hence, meaningless. Americans want something done on porous entry. Not the same liberal swan songs about the Statue of Liberty.
4
Yes, most Americans want a comprehensive review and overhaul of our immigration policies, and most Americans don’t want open borders. But most Americans also don’t believe a border wall will do anything to prevent illegal immigration, so perhaps Mr. Trump needs to give that up.
9
Steve Miller and Steve King wrote Trump's speech last night and the Russians paid for it.
13
Trump wants his base to see him fighting for something. They like to see him fighting and he likes to be seen as a fighter. He may even care more about being seen fighting than anything else. So any way that he can be seen as a fighter is fine in his estimation. And I think he likes to fight. It is one of the few things that he can understand on the emotional level he lives at.. Don't expect him to give up easily. Actually, he may have to be carried out in one of those jackets.
The republicans all know how opposition makes him react viciously, with no restraint. That's how he keeps them fearful and in line.Don't expect him to think, he mostly just reacts. His intemperant fury cows them. They may just go down with him. As Lindsay Graham says" If Trump goes the party goes with him". If they are joined at the hip they will all drown.
7
Did Trump stomp out before or after he threatened to hold his breath?
7
"He's the President. Everything he does is Presidential."
-Republicans. Literally.
6
Blackmail and bullying have always been at the heart of Trump's M.O.
3
Donald is certainly a man of action. Let’s see, he: storms, rages, seethes, lashes out, berates, curses, belittles, demeans, lies, exaggerates, blames, brags, steals credit, bullies, whines, mocks others, shoves Montenegrin leaders, insults Angela Merkel, backstabs Theresa May, keeps Queen Elizabeth waiting, doesn’t honor the war dead in the rain because his hair might get wet, advocates violence, cheats on his wives, bankrupts his companies, uses his charitable foundation as a personal slush fund, evades taxes, obstructs justice, and perhaps, still tbd, but looking likely, steals elections, etc.
And lest I forget, he eats lots of KFC, Filet O Fish and other fast food, uses his unsecured cell phone to call pals like Lou Dobbs and Sean Hannity, watches hours of Fox and Friends, tweets, and golfs. And while his coif remains mysterious, he puts quite some effort into it.
He does not listen to expert advice, read, or govern.
16
Little Donny throws yet another tantrum. The Democrats should put together a clear border security proposal, involving fencing only WHERE APPROPRIATE, and then they should present that proposal to their congressional colleagues and the American people. Let the twit tweet to himself.
7
@Paul
Democrats have put forth a clear security proposal. It was in the budget the Senate passed 100 to 0. Then Trump reversed and rejected it. That was before the shut down but after he was called by Rush Limpurgh & Ann Coulter, & after all the fox talkers got at him.
They want the fight. They don't care what happens to Americans & America.
2
This is the third government shutdown in 1 year, proving the GOP are incompetent.
The GOP were in charge of everything for 2 years & did nothing on the border wall. Based on this paper's reporting, the border wall was nothing more than a mnemonic reminder for immigration during the campaign. That means shutting down the government for the border wall is a scam.
The President is scamming America & the GOP are willing to fund a $25 Billion con job. This can't be allowed to happen.
15
NYTimes, there is NO GULF, between democrats and the president. Republics have created this gulf. Republicans led by Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan had every opportunity to fund a wall while they had republican control of the White House, The House of Representatives. and The Senate. This is not a democrat issue. The president is using this as a wedge that he did not use on his own party, why? Because now the blame game can begin and the republican can move into the role of obstructing, the only task they are good at. And by the way, the real issue remain to be foreign affair in the presidential campaign, hmmmm so this is a major distraction. Please do your job and call out what is really going on.
8
"The Art of the Deal" is probably a fake book. Its author , Donald Trump, obviously has no clue about how to make a deal!
5
America is getting greater by the minute.
4
800,000 hostages until Mr. Trump gets his way!
Weren’t the Mexicans supposed to pay for the wall?
10
So much focus on DT’s sound and fury!
Democrats, the way to success here is to argue the issues that might sway the middle:
Weak, even if true: We need to help disadvantaged poor migrants.
Stronger: Dems support border security, and lawful entry processes, too. Cite investments in controlling visa overstays, eVerify, $billions appropriated last year for CBP etc.
Weak: He can’t have his stupid Wall.
Stronger: Note reasons why walls aren’t effective: eg easy to climb over/tunnel under/bypass entirely by boat or Canada...
Segue to growing federal deficit.
Weak: He won’t negotiate. He’s a cry baby. He slammed his hand down on the table.
Stronger: Ignore him. Negotiate with moderate Rep Senators instead.
Bottom line: You/we won’t win this without addressing the fears & worries of the centrists.
7
1. They said this over and over. Since 2005. When they signed onto a comprehensive plan that the wacko-birds blew up.
2. They said this.
3. They said this.
4. The moderate Republicans are all afraid of Trump and Trumpists.
Did you vote?
8
Pelosi said no to a question to which "yes" would have been surrrender.
Trump walked out of room.
Trump halted negotiation.
6
One wonders, after storming out of a meeting scheduled last hours, did Donald Trump just go back to the residence and sit in front of the tv for the rest of the day?
17
i don’t get why anyone falls for the trick of blaming Democrats. Don’t we have another Party ? Are they all for the Wall? Then let them all say so.
7
Memo to Nancy Pelosi:
Dear Ms. Pelosi:
Please be advised that you cannot expect to have a reasoned and reasonable conversation with a crazy person. I didn't have the stomach or the intestinal fortitude to watch this farce live but, tuning in to The Late Show tonight 'forced' me to watch. My principal takeaway is that Mr. Trump is simply bats in the belfry and now McConnell, Pence et al look like the proverbial deer in the headlights. They cannot figure out a way to stop the President from talking nonsense every time he opens his mouth.
I suggest you get some rest because, as any mental health professional will tell you, dealing with the emotionally disturbed is mentally and physically exhausting. You add to that the fact that Trump appears to believe he has the right and the ability to intimidate you into doing what he wants and you may have to ask yourself whether it was a good thing for you to regain the Speaker position. Good luck. You will need it.
15
I don't see a huge wall around the White House or the Capitol building, yet they manage to have some of the best security in the world -- and probably not for lack of criminals, foreign and domestic, hoping to infiltrate and attack.
A spiked metal fence and a bunch of vehicle barriers (with the important addition of all sorts of more expense-worthy human and technological surveillance and armed guards and other layers of security feature!!!) is good enough for POTUS and Congress, why should we the people settle for less effective measures -- like a thirty-foot tall wall and little else?
10
Let's hope the Democrats hold their ground and force him to blink first.
11
Ah yes. The “master negotiator.” The guy behind the “art of the deal.” Storms out of the room.
16
Yes, let's see what he is like when the deal that he accepts is "no".
It is really almost comical.
They spend billions and billions on a wall, partly, amongst other things, because Trump is worried about heroin coming in over the border, and then the drug smugglers fly it in over the wall with a 1300 Dollar drone.
12
So, are we missing Tillerson, Kelly and Mattis yet? I believe what Bob Corker said about those three separating the United States from disaster. Also, we should keep our focus. Things are heating up with the Special Prosecutor. Let none of us be distracted by the shiny ball.
18
I have no concept as to why no one asks Trump if he would "negotiate" with someone who held 800,000 families and a growing section of the economy hostage.
One does not negotiate with kidnappers, terrorists or similar, why should anyone negotiate with him ?
Mr. McConnell's statement effectively removes one of the three legs the milking stool your government rests on. He would be wiser to carry on per proscribed practice and let the bill die in his chamber or pass it and make Trump veto it. Many in his position, red or blue, have done so in the past.
If history accords this event any name but the Trump shutdown, history is as much a stranger to the truth as Trump is.
19
If he did so, his wife would lose her job out of spite.
1
President Trump doesn't understand he has a minority government and needs to compromise if he wants his wall.... Oh wait, his wall funding could not pass when Republicans controlled both the House and Senate either. Mr. President, nobody wants to waste money on a southern wall.
29
If Trump wants this wall so badly, he should put up his own money for it. He can add it to his long list of tax write offs!
17
He does not have the money. He would have to borrow more from the Russian mafia.
3
I don’t believe the framers envisioned a bad actor such as Trump could become President. Trump’s digging around in the dirt for a way to circumvent the other branches of government and install himself as ruler.
26
That's because the framers could not conceive so many voters would put a petulant child in the highest office in the land. Come to think of it, how could we possibly have so many uninformed voters acting with such indifference to our nation's and their own best interests?
And all of this turmoil, including a toll taking, very expensive and wholly inadequate and ineffective wall is a fight worth fighting to the point of a government shutdown?
Come on people! Wake up!
10
I gotta admit, after the daily onslaught of insanity that we experienced over the last two years, I’m kinda just enjoying this opportunity to pull up a chair with a big ‘ole bucket of popcorn and watch all the fireworks. Of course, our government will be completely useless and accomplish nothing in 2 years, but hey, it’s the era of Reality TV politics isn’t it?
6
What are the Democrats afraid of? That the wall might work? Its cost is hardly a drop in the bucket, and Trump has even shown flexibility on the amount he would be willing to accept. But Pelosi and Schumer just go into his office and say they won’t budge. Are we supposed to believe if the government is reopened that they’ll suddenly start negotiating? No wonder Trump kicked them out of his office.
5
To respond to your first question: perhaps the $5 billion price ticket is what's so daunting, as it should be to any sensible person.
4
I resent the tactic of holding the government hostage in order to fulfill a dubious campaign promise.
3
maybe polls show that the people do not blame the Senate for this situation because the media do not explain it well enough. in fact, the Senate is totally responsible of the shutdown
20
Security threat? The Trump shutdown-caused cessation of FDA food safety inspections (see NYT article) presents imminent risk to our nation's people -- especially to our young ones. THAT is a national emergency as far as this mom is concerned.
And note, too, that as a parent in a border state, when I send my kids to school. I'm much more worried that some needlessly-armed, resentment- or hate-filled American citizen might perpetrate a mass shooting than I am worried that an undocumented/illegal migrant worker would do the same.
We need secure borders, but the truth is that most (all?) of the school-based mass shootings and murders of our nation's children were committed by white, American citizen males; and the 21st century terrorist attacks on US soil we're all committed by people in the US legally.
20
I wonder if I am the only one to have this thought: The Wall is a construction project. Should it be approved, companies related to the president’s family will win the tenders/get the contracts and out of the 5 billion budgeted for The Wall 2-2,5 will end up in the pockets of the president and his family.
19
I guess it's safe to assume that Donald Trump couldn't settle the dispute over the wall and re-open the government in a 45 minute meeting with Pelosi and Schumer.
3
I wonder if Hizzoner actually thinks that this has ever worked for him? My theory is, that $412 million scraped from Daddy, or the $1.6 bil in taxpayer money, or the couple bil is extremely iffy loans, plus bankruptcy court he treats as a win, has always kept just enough trickling in that he’s been able to ignore all the failures.
3
Trump can make a border wall pay for itself. Firstly, let the Chinese build it and maintain it. They have much verifiable experience with Great Walls. Secondly, Build the wall tall enough and wide enough to accommodate six lanes of traffic over its 1,000 mile length.
3
So, one has to ask, when the Republicans controlled the House and Senate in 2017 and 2018, if the Wall were so important, why didn't President Trump submit a budget that contained funding for the wall when it would be rubber stamped by Congress?
It could be that the incompetence or inexperience of White House staff prevented them from getting it together, the adults in the room slow walked it, Trump couldn't focus on it or could this latest 2019 version be pressure from Putin to force Trump to cause a constitutional crisis (National Emergency!) and rip the republic apart? Trump is in a corner and he has to fight his way out and end result is a negotiation to resign the presidency and walk away without prosecution of Trump or family. Of course, the NY and other states' charges are another matter.
Our own Manchurian Candidate?
13
These “negotiation” meetings are ridiculous and should cease. The House should hold hearings (remember those? They used to be a staple of the legislative process and led to informative media coverage). A number of credible experts should testify—people who have researched all the pros (if any) and cons of building barriers on the southern border, as well as the negative impacts the existing barriers have had (e.g., on the environment, on funneling unknown numbers of people to their death in the desert). There are relevant facts and figures that are not being reported in the current discussion that are critical to informing (and swaying) the opinion of both the public and Congressional Republicans. Presidential advisors may even be moved by such testimony.
16
Most cogent comment here. Makes so much sense that it will never happen.
7
@Steve Cohen Phone your Congress Critters daily urging Martin's comment. Even send them a copy. Link to it: https://nyti.ms/2REXwtF#permid=30084939
Congress. Democratic leadership: Tell him to "make Mexico pay for it." And when he lies that "they already are paying for it," then ask him if that's the case, why is he shutting down the government over the issue? Why is he hounding Congress for money if Mexico is paying for it? I am missing something here...
16
This potus has demonstrated to us how weak our constitution is.
What happens if 45 invokes national emergency? An unwarranted emergency, I might add. Does the overly touted, impregnable and brilliant constitution guide us on this?
I don’t think so. What happens next?
The executive, legislative, judicial branches, along with the Fourth Estate, have failed us terribly. What’s next? A military coup..,?
I ask because I’m curious... why? Because that’s exactly what happens in countries with weak constitutions and unstable leadership.... ie, us right now.
I’m very very worried for our country.
11
Ruth Bader Ginsburg has missed 3 court sessions and is supposedly working from home. Who knows? When Trump is ready to fill yet another supreme court seat, then will Chuck and Nancy finally come to the negotiating table? Merrick Garland in exchange for the wall. Sounds like a deal to me.
3
He wants to declare a national emergency. He wants the talks to fail, but he lacks the intelligence to even pretend he's negotiating and walks out of the discussion area, waving bye-bye. Then he holds a strategy lunch with Republicans to stick together. That means he has reassured himself that when he decides the country has a national emergency that not one Republican will naysay him, only the Democrats. This will be Constitutional Crisis. Since he has stacked the Supreme Court he probably feels safe that "the law" will approve his takeover eventually. Having denied power to the legislative branch, if it goes as planned, he will be able to get rid of the Mueller Investigation, his real goal.
7
Trump can easily fund the wall. Get the money from the 1% who benefited from the tax cuts. I’m sure they’ll be willing to help him out.
8
Good thing Jared Kushner is at the center of these high level negotiations. I feel so much better now.
8
One important question is who will build the wall
What companies will benefit from the 5.7 billions?
5
Pelosi & Schumer have proposed ending the shutdown and then having open-ended discussion of all approaches to border issues. Trump has made it impossible for them to agree to a wall by insisting the shutdown is a bargaining chip. That is, Trump insists upon $5.7 billion as his condition to end a shakedown.
If they agree, it would open the door to other repeat performances by Trump, insisting upon satisfaction of some whim of his in order to have Trump desist from doing harm to some innocent folks in some way.
In short, Trump says he wants to take over government. Congress is to do what he requests, or else ...
26
45, the great negotiator who always references his Art of the Deal walked out on negotiations he didn't like. I'm sure this winning tactic was included in Chapter 11 which he frequently used for all of his businesses and now Federal government.
50
As the debate progress, the "wall" is evolving into a metaphor for a strong physical structure. After all, what is the difference between a wall or a fence, steel vs concrete, 20ft vs 15ft? The Democrat's intransigence against a "wall" will eventually result in resistance to anything except a line on the grounding demarcating our border. How will they be able to support any physical barrier without seeming like they acquiesced to Trump.
3
I don’t know what’s funnier...the notion that Trump’s carrying on a “debate,” or the absurd bit about, “evolving into a metaphor.”
My question is, is Trump “endeavoring to persevere?”
1
Why are the Democrats stunned that Trump “stormed” out of a meeting? They know he won’t accept anything less than the full amount for border funding. Einstein’s supposed statement on insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Seems like there plenty of that in DC these days.
26
they weren't stunned. this is all if a piece with Trump's theatricality. he's placed Pelosi and Schumer into the role of the Pharisees in his production of "The Passion of Donald Trump."
no expense will be spared. 40 years in the making.
4
@I Heart
Einstein’s assertion sure holds true, so why doesn’t the president change since he knows democrats will not fund the useless wall?
3
Any reader who believe this is about protection from criminal activity, consider this: a portion of the $5.7 Billion dollars could be spent on government grants increasing DWI enforcement, that is paid overtime for the STEP program. The US incurs about 37,000 DWI fatalities per year. Increased DWI enforcement could take many drunk drivers who cause these deaths off the road.
Additionally, a portion of the money could be spent on fugitive task forces targeting the apprehension of violent criminals. A portion of the money could be spent on the prosecution of US drug companies that essentially are "legal" drug dealers selling fentanyl. The prosecution would also result in asset forfeiture that could be plowed back into crime fighting.
I would feel safer from the devastating effect of illegal conduct if the monies were so allocated. The monies would be targeted to prevent the bad conduct that Trump claims he hates and would have an immediate impact versus the years necessary to complete a wall that may never be finished. Trump's fits of anger disregard that elections have consequences, that it is Congress that has the constitutional power to tax and allocate tax revenue; he does not have these constitutional powers. It is he, and he alone who is shutting down the government and wasting our time.
45
@Ben:
You, sir, may be sole, last sane Texan standing.
Bravo!
3
I think that this shutdown could end up doing Trump in. He’s tethered to the wall since that keeps his rabid base fed, and because if he gives in now, that will make the entire shutdown that has caused so much misery and chaos for so many people look pointless and easily avoidable. If he allows the shutdown to drag on, it will look like he alone is the monkey wrench who threw himself into the machine.
Either way, A LOT of people are, and will continue to be very, very angry with him. I just read on the NYT site that the FDA is starting to curtail food inspections. How happy are people going to be as that comes to a grinding halt and it starts affecting the public’s health?
41
@Alex:
One waits for the day, undoubtedly not so far off, when this frighteningly disconnected-from-real-life "President" utters, "Let them eat cake . . ." (or it's modern-day equivalent: it's virtually certain that The Donald has zero-or-less acquaintance with European history).
Sad. Bigly sad.
4
@Alex:
Trump does deserve a certain amount of credit here:
In very short order he's solidly established himself -- bigly far beyond any past (or likely future) competition -- for the title of #1 Worst President in the history of the United States.
And that's quite an accomplishment, having been attained even before his first term is up!
3
Misery and chaos?!? What are you talking about? As of today, no-one has even been shorted a pay check. A few parks are closed. Are you serious? Misery and chaos?
1
A desperate, threatened Trump poses extreme danger to the country and the world. The GOP Congress is derelict in their duties to serve as a check and balance on a wannabe autocratic president.
67
Granny, - Parasitical symbiotic alliances thrive with Trumps amoral administration and the GOP. Men without integrity are destroying the institutions and foundations of Our democracy. Absent of conscious and discarding their oaths, they pursue their own agendas under the cover of this dark era in America.
7
I have an idea. Give Texas to Mexico only if they agree to build a wall around it and pay for it themself. This way everyone's happy. I'm pretty sure the Constitution allows you to that, Mr. President. Yep, pretty sure.
34
Fantastic idea and one I expressed here some months ago. Who on earth will miss Texas, and Texans have always wanted to be separate, even were for a short time. I think it’s a great idea.
2
@Ed:
You, sir, have by your astute and breathtakingly spot-on commentary have just risen to the upper echelons of several short lists, including the Nobel Peace Prize and a Pulitzer, at the very v least.
Urban Texans are overwhelmingly against Wall funding, as are (surprisingly to many non-Texans) many of the rural border cities and towns. John Cornyn and his cronies (read:Ted Cruz) are archaic holdovers amidst a swiftly changing political/demographic shift in this state. Please don’t be so quick to send all Texans over the border as recompense for the moronic government shutdown
3
There is no border crisis. There is a humanitarian crisis. And Trump is a traitor and a fascist who is trying to destroy the rule of law. Letting children die at the border is not acceptable to the majority of America. We are not to be ruled by the 28% of authoritarian personalities that Trump is preaching to.
There are no "two sides to this issue" against the facts that reflect that border breaches are trending progressively lower the past ten years progressively. This is a fake issue by a phony president who was a Russian plant who is desperately trying to evade collusion and obstruction charges.
76
What grown man ends a meeting with “bye-bye”? He talks like a child and should be treated as such.
62
Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and their fellow Democrats are all that is preventing the United States from descending fully into the autocratic, fascist state that Trump is trying his hardest to create. We are not being protected by the Republican controlled Senate, nor by the partisan Kavanaugh Supreme Court. Remain strong and faithful to the US Constitution, Nancy and Chuck. Be our heroes. History and the rest of Western civilization will judge you.
78
Donnie went down the hallway to stamp his feet and hold his breath. Good move, Donnie.
30
My question: Who owns enough steel to build a wall of that magnitude? Follow the money, people.
40
It’s all starting to make sense to me now. The Irrational behavior around the wall is not to keep people out, that’s a smokescreen. No wonder He wants it for the full length of the border, it’s to keep us in!
16
"The one thing that the President has not talked about is the fact that he has systematically engaged in the violation of international human rights on our border. He has separated children from their families. He talked about what happened the day after Christmas—on the day of Christmas, a child died in [Customs and Border Protection] custody. The President should not be asking for more money to an agency that has systematically violated human rights; the President should be really defending why we are funding such an agency at all. Because right now what we are seeing is death, right now what we are seeing is the violation of human rights, these children and these families are being held in what are called hieleras, which are basically freezing boxes that no person should be maintained in for any amount of time. . . . He is trying to restrict every form of legal immigration there is in the United States. He is fighting against family reunification, he’s fighting against the diversity visa lottery. . . . This is systematic, it is wrong, and it is anti-American."
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Tuesday night
47
We are all talking about this instead of the COLLUSION between his campaign and Russian agents reported today.
That is the plan, you know.
66
Where were you all those times the US organised “regime change”?
The "master negotiator" is behaving like a toddler. Negotiations can't begin in good faith when you're not willing to negotiate in the first place. Not to mention Trump can't keep to his word in the first place. Pelosi and Schumer, stay strong!
32
Is this the art of the deal we are witnessing?
21
Pelosi was rolled. The correct response to Trump's stupid gambit was, "Sure, open the rest of the government and then we will negotiate border security and the wall and we will find out". That is in fact what Pelosi wants. But she was goaded into responding directly to Trump's inept question and is now painted as the intransigent party. She may be and undoubtedly is a great legislative tactician bit sometimes she wavers in her interaction with Trump. As in, her challenge to the Republican house to hold a vote. They did. and they had enough votes.
7
“Rolled,” means, “gave in without realizing it,” and Republicans cannot possibly have the votes in the House.
1
Senate Republicans ceding their power to the president is cringeworthy. I have secondhand embarrassment for them.
29
We are wasting time. Impeach now. Delaying it accomplishes nothing.
Republicans must be held accountable. The Democrats need to be the adults in the house.
Let us recognize he made it to the White House because of Citizens United and gerrymandering. Both must be overturned.
31
Chuck and Nancy are just as bad as Trump is. They don't fool me for a second. If they truly cared about getting furloughed employees their paychecks, they'd give Trump his wall. $5 billion is a very small slice of our annual $4.4 trillion budget. Wasteful spending? Please. It's a tenth of a percent of the entire budget. This government has wasted far more money on things far more useless than a border wall.
For Chuck and Nancy, this is about politics and pandering to their base just as much as it is for Trump. Whoever wins this argument nets a major win for their base and that's what this is really all about.
9
The total cost of the wall is anywhere from $20 billion to $70-$100. And that doesnt probably include ongoing *annual* expenses for upkeep and manpower. We are expected to hit a record deficit this year. $5 billion may not seem like much, worthwhile to appease a president who is holding the country hostage. But at a time of scarce funds, every billion counts. The GOP already wants to cut Social Security and Medicare, this just gives them more reasons.
28
“Chuck and Nancy” agreed to that almost two years ago. And Trump reneged.
And until last week, Republicans had all the votes they needed, and got zero done.
8
@Jon K
Trump had two years of complete Republican control of government and he couldn’t get his useless wall built. Suddenly House Democrats are supposed to ignore their mandate and waste taxpayer money on something they and the majority of Americans don’t want? They aren’t pandering; they’re doing their duty.
10
The Republicans in the Senate should remove Mitch McConnell as the majority leader and replace him with someone who will be willing to put the original bipartisan deal up for a vote. McConnell is a major part of the problem. He is a weak spineless partisan hack and Trump's whipping boy. He is of no use to anyone but Trump. His approval rating in his home state is 30%. He should take a page from John Boehner's "strategy" and quit politics.
41
Paul Ryan quit as well.
3
"President Trump slammed his hand on a table and stormed out of a White House meeting ... Stunned Democrats emerged ... declaring that Mr. Trump had thrown a 'temper tantrum.' The president’s allies accused Democrats of refusing to negotiate."
Good. The wall is a symbol of the lies, racism, and fear that Trump has resorted to, to justify his wall. The wall is not negotiable. The fascist lies, racism and fear are not negotiable. However much we fail to attain them, our traditional aspirations and values are sacred.
22
Give him the $1.6 billion and let him build a wall that's three feet high.
9
Focus on Republican congressmen/women as well, please, to seek some options.
6
Let me get this straight... Trump had 2 full years of a Republican controlled Congress and all of a sudden, it’s now the Democrats fault that the government is shut down, because they won’t fund the wall that Mexico was going to pay for. I’m having flashbacks of those rallies... “who’s going to pay for it... Mexico (the crowd roars)” and it will be “so easy and so fast” Trump said.
Hmmm
51
Totally agree. Nobody in the media is asking that question...Why didn’t they pass the wall funding when republicans controlled both houses? Because Republican lawmakers don’t really want the wall and so they delayed, and now it’s just a way to pin it on Democrats. The irony is that the leaders elected by Trumps base had two years of power and all they have to show for it is tax cuts for the elite.
8
@David Cuenca:
Absolutely spot-on observations.
This Presidency is more and more surreal with each passing day. It's as if we're all stuck in a SNL skit gone terribly awry, à la Jim Carry in THE TRUMAN SHOW.
Come to think of it . . . has anyone ever seen both Trump and Alec Baldwin in the same room at the same time? No???
Could it be . . ?
2
The Art of the Deal? Not so much. Clearly whatever skill Trump might have had in this regard (and I'm giving him huge benefit of the doubt here) has gotten quite rusty. Even I know that negotiation requires offers and counter offers, so I don't see Trump's approach being effective - even on a used car lot much less in major policy decisions. Using the approach he's been using these past weeks, Trump would end up walking home as opposed to driving home in his new ride.
88
I agree regarding Trump’s poor negotiating skills. In this case though, I think he’s posturing and grandstanding without an intent to negotiate.
It’s Trump’s and the Republicans’ MO to create diversions. I suspect that Trump (with Republicans’ support) is shutting down the government and posturing about the wall to divert peoples’, and the media’s, attention away from the news of indictments of Trump’s people, Trump being an unindicted (so far) co-conspirator, the NY state attorney forcing the shutdown of Trump’s foundation for fraud, and the news of Manafort giving campaign info to Russia — the noose is tightening around Trump & Co for the increasingly likely Russian collusion.
10
@We the People.
Correct on all counts. The only mystery here is why anyone would have expected anything different from Fred's son. Illustrating yet again the wisdom of Mark Twain: "“There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.”.
1
@We the People. Plus, shutting down the government should never be used as a negotiating ploy. He is using it as blackmail. That's not negotiation, nor is it making a deal. It's really an act of ransom or worse. If he want to make a deal he needs to offer something, besides the one thing he should NOT be negotiating with. His actions will come to haunt the Chicken Littles of the GOP when a Democratic President points out this precedent for future actions.
2
I think the wall is not likely to be worth its cost. I personally wouldn’t particularly want it. However, I see why he can’t back down, but I can’t see why the Democrats made it this much of an issue, other than simply to be obstructionist. They should fund the wall, and move on. It’s his signature issue, and like it or not he was elected on it. Funding it would open doors for so much future good-faith negotiation and potential compromise on so many more important issues.
6
There is no ‘good faith’ negotiating with this guy. He will stiff you every time. There is no point in negotiating with bullies.
39
trump never enters into negotiations in “good faith”.
The democrats need to keep the pressure on.
35
Not a good policy to give into extortion. Also it is not 800,000 people directly affected by loss of pay. Assume most are married and of those most have children. So now the number directly affected by no paycheck is 2 million.
As I suggested previously the Secret Service people should resign, find other jobs in law enforcement. All TSA people don't show up for work. Extortion can work both ways.
7
Mr President you're fired.
Please vacate the office paid for by my taxes.
50
This is the sorriest bunch of losers I can imagine in a leadership position. It makes me nauseous. That they would allow (actually, force) even one federal worker to face eviction or empty cupboards over nothing more than whimsy is unimaginable. Yet here we are. I can’t believe that I’m feeling and saying this, but Congress should be focused on nothing less than going around, under, and over the President of the United States, who is just deranged. I believe in the, a, chain of command. I think it is pretty much sacred, never mind necessary to make things run. But things are not running. It’s time to stop this nonsense. Lock up the crazy man with the weird hair before he really hurts someone. And let’s get the country running again. Good God, y’all.
59
I would imagine that the president storming out of the meeting today was as scripted as him reading off the teleprompter last night.
40
Absolutely. He wins we pawns lose.
2
Our Liar In Chief's temper tantrum reinforces the belief he is a child in an adult's clothing. Congress needs to ignore his rants and do their own jobs, including reaching reasonable compromises and then overriding any vetoes he might make.
28
As a federal employee for nearly 2 decades, and a political observer for far longer than that, I have to say I have never seen a White House as myopic, venal, disorganized and selfish as this one. Trump is an utter disgrace and the people he surrounds himself with are almost universally sycophants who seem intent on running the country into the ground. I fear for our country.
89
Thank you for your service, including posting your comment.
God speed.
3
If the Democrats cave, it will only empower the current occupant of the White House to use the same bullying tactics again and again, just as he did during his decades of wallowing in that 5th Ave. pig pen.
Unfortunately, that leaves it up to the Senate Republicans to break the logjam, so heaven help us.
45
This is all Trump's and his faithful sycophants' fault. DJ1 doesn't seem to understand we live in a democracy not an autocracy.
18
It's pretty bad when life is imitating The Onion story wise.
I'm sure the MAGA brigade is fist bumping and high fiving their fearless leader and his tweets.
I long for anyone who is into adulting the next go around. My standards are pretty low. GOP or DEM. Can you act your age, not your shirt size?
15
Why are Republicans in the Senate the only people not doing anything? Where is their shame? Don't they represent the nation and our people?
Stop pretending and get to work. You have plenty of power to do right by the country, not just doing right by Trump's (not yours) base.
For shame.
29
Here's the thing: If Trump thought the wall was so imperative and the need so exigent to assert it as a National Emergency, why did it take two years for the wall to come to a vote? Why was tax cuts for the top 1% of the population and corporations so much more important that the wall? Its because this treasonous liar knows the wall wont do anything but appease his uneducated racist base. Please remember the selling point to his racist following was not the building of a wall, but making Mexico pay for it. As a man who recently abandoned my GOP membership after 30 years due to this monster, I am further disgusted by my former party for catering to this self interested buffoon.
45
Probably the type of kid that took his ball and went home if things did not go his way.
19
He was the type of kid that didn't have many friends to play ball with!
Trump is holding America hostage just to get a wall built. And “blackmailing” at the same time. ... The government shutdown affects all of us, everyone no matter who you work for, or don’t work for. May God bless the United States America.
18
Republican controlled Congress mantra and modus operandi has always been to do nothing and freeload on tax payers dime , they did nothing with a Democratic president and they are as useless with a Republican president , the only way to get things done for our people is to Vote all these Republicans in Congress out!!!!. They have clearly failed woefully in all challenges they have encountered. My Goodness do your Job Senator's.
19
As far as leadership goes, Mitch McConnell is as undemocratic as Mr. Putin. He has obstructed the progress of America for his supporters (financiers), not for the American people. He is a disgrace to the US Senate.
34
Pence said that the prez walked into the meeting and passed out candy. Yes, candy. What was that supposed to do? Make his domesticated cattle ordure go down easier?
11
Why don’t you call it what it is. Like ObamaCare. This is the Trump Shutdown. Only him.
12
Oh my. He actually slammed his hand on the table? It’s definitely twenty-fifth amendment time for him. Or perhaps he just doesn’t like to suffer fools.
7
You present your country to the world as the shining beacon of democracy but your system clearly cannot cope when there is a fool in the driver’s seat. How can one man be able to cause such damage both at home and internationally?
32
spineless senators, including mine.
18
Trump wanted assurances from the Democratic leaders that IF he reopened the federal government that Dems would GIVE him A WALL! Of course Pelosi said NO! This is the same old extortion he's been pushing since day 1. That may work in business where you can always find another opportunity or player. It doesn't work that way in government. Nor should it.
Perhaps Trump (I will not call him president because he doesn't behave like one) should stop blaming everyone else for the mess he's created for himself AND stop making up lies to trick the American people. His stats were all lies. Notice he stopped using the one about the thousands of terrorists crossing our southern border? That's because the real number is like 6 or 8. Most of the people who are detained for POTENTIAL terrorism links cross via the northern border, and on airplanes.
America is burning while McConnell is fiddling for Trump! What is McConnel so afraid of? Trump needs him and republicans. Not the other way around. Not if they are patriots instead of the political party flunky roles they are auditioning for!!!! They aren't even good at that. The 2018 midterm is proof of this.
I'm pretty sure if Trump behaved like a civilized adult he might be able to get portions of barriers built in appropriate places out of this negotiation. Then he could claim the fight isn't over, but I got something. But that is not good enough for our toddler in chief! Time for a long nap your majesty1
14
I see Donald is continuing his temper tantrum! Typical narcissist!
For those saying that, $5.7 billion is "drop in the bucket " you must realize that this wall will cost over....$25 billion!
Donald and the Republicans added trillions to our national deficit, it will grow to an estimated.....$22 TRILLION!
NOT a single dollar of hard earned American taxpayer money for Donald's wall!
Stay strong Speaker Pelosi!!
32
Stay strong Dems. No vanity wall for this vile excuse for a political party.
26
I have no doubt that if the Democrats cave and give Trump his “metal fence” he will say “thanks dupes; I got my wall.”
8
Hey senator Cornyn. I’d rather hang separately then hang together. : you first !
11
I continue to ask myself why the Republicans are held in thrall by this president, this fool. Surely the midterm elections showed them that his base is crumbling. I wonder how many furloughed and unpaid government workers and contractors voted for him.
9
I bet he is the kids d of guy who tosses the Monopoly board if the game doesn't go his way. Pretty soon, no one will play Monopoly with him any more.
26
When you have a monopoly or, apparently, Emergency Powers, it doesn't matter if nobody else will play with you... That is the problem.
7
Republicans do not control the House. Why is that? Because Americans voted them out in November 2018. Why was that? Because voters opposed unlimited governmental control by Republicans because most voters opposed Trump. Trump cannot accept the reality of the last election and that the majority of voters do not support him. Pelosi is following the mandate of the voters who returned her to the Speakership.
Trump and Republicans have to face reality. They do not have the support of most Americans who wanted a change in leadership of the House because they do not support Trump. It is unreasonable and unfair for Republicans to hold federal workers and the government hostage expecting to have their own way, as if the election never happened.
It isn't complicated. Have Republicans forgotten the same thing happened when Obama was president? Trump and Republicans act like they are entitled to rule and that their party is to come before what voters want for the country because all that matters to them is their own self-interest and survival: "That's the end of us if we give in on this issue," said Senator Lindsey Graham.
34
@Scientist...Why don't Democrats control the Senate? In fact, they picked up a few seats. Was that a mandate from the voters for Senator McConnell to continue his policies. What is the reality here?
It’s scary to think that soon, people are going to start yearning for a strongman to step in and sort out the political mess. I wonder if this is how it happens. Vladimir, what do you think?
USA may have to start worrying about people leaving as much as DJT is worrying about people coming in. Forbears turning over in their graves.
13
Government contractors are among the people that suffer the most during shutdowns. Our year end invoices did not get processed so we can’t pay the sub-contractors. Worse still many contractors are paid by the hour, while the government employees will eventually be paid, contractor cannot make up those lost days.
25
Thank you for your excellent reminder of how far reaching this shut-down really is.
9
Let’s remember why we are here. Republicans couldn’t get the wall built when they had control of the House, Senate and White House. Trump was about to sign a bipartisan budget and then Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter criticized him and he caved. I just wish his base cared less about the broken promise of a wall and more about the lie of who would pay for it.
40
One point of this whole mess is that while the country is focused on the shutdown, no one is really paying attention to the rest of his misdeeds and what else is transpiring.
Let us not forget the other stories, i.e., Mueller investigation has been given more time, democrats now have the ability to criminally investigate, and so much more.
He probably knows this year is really not going to go well for himself, his family, and anyone associated with him.
14
Welcome back Mrs. Pelosi. #45 is no match. I am looking forward to the upcoming rout.
23
@DENOTE MORDANT...Pelosi got taken to the wood shed by a bunch of radicals who hadn't even been sworn in yet. They had her eating off the back of their hands. She needs Trump to keep the radicals from throwing her under the bus the first chance they get. And, they won't wait long for that first chance.
"Stunned Democrats emerged from the meeting in the White House Situation Room declaring that the president had thrown a “temper tantrum” and slammed his hands on the table before leaving with an abrupt “bye-bye.” Republicans disputed the hand slam and blamed Democratic intransigence."
So the "parents" are fighting like petulant children, all the while caring not one bit that the actual children (us) are the ones left to suffer during and as a result.
5
So if the wall is ineffective then why are Democrats so against it? The government wastes 5 billion all the time.
This is nothing but political football from both sides... so sad.
10
Maybe the Democrats should given into every symbolic wasteful whim from Trump.
Think of all the job training that could pay for coal miners who have lost their jobs, with money left over to send kids to college.
5
Yeah 5 billion is nothing—unless it’s needed for healthcare or education or public transit. Even a few million is too much to spend on hot meals for shut in elderly.
18
General strike. That might get Trump’s attention. Not just government workers. Everyone.
17
Dems need to give Trump, and by extension, his supporters, border security. But they shouldn’t give him his wall. This may ease his base’s anxiety about immigration while forcing Trump to compromise. If he doesn’t then this shutdown and a lax border will squarely be on him and the GOP. Dems need to be the party of solutions.
4
A secure border serves all, not just his base. The issue is not whether border security matters, but how it is best and most sustainably and humanely achieved.
14
@Patriot Maybe 45 could try, you know, actually negotiating with co-equals in Congress, instead of whining that they don't just bow and scrape to his stinky feet and throw piles of cash at him.
In case a refresher course is needed, "negotiations" involve complicated stuff like offering something that your counterpart wants to get something else you want. That appears to be beyond DJT's ability.
5
@Michael Miller
The presidency may be "co-equal" to the Congress, but Trump is co-equal to none -- he's beneath them all.
The first time we let our son cry himself to sleep I sat on the other side of his door for four hours. With the phone in my hand my sister in law coached me through (she is a child psychologist) and she implored me to stick with it because if I didn’t he would cry longer the next night.
Night one - four hours, night two - one hour, after that, no problem
Stick with it Nancy - you must teach him.
47
Sister @Deidre in NJ
With al due respect to you and your child psych sister-in-law, not all parents or child mental health professionals agree with such an approach in response to a crying infant, and not all infants respond as yours did.
Every parent makes a bit of a gamble on their child's wellbeing and development when choosing how to respond to calls of distress. The gamble is that much more daunting when the "child" is an extreme narcissist with easy access to the nuclear bomb codes.
7
Cut off the next social security check and this will end immediately. Republicans owns this. There was a great deal and $25 billion for security last year and he walked away. Trump is not negotiating - we are his hostages. Send in the swat team and take the cowardly republicans out with him.
21
I don't think that cutting off Social Security checks will do anything but give the GOP and Libertarians a taste of what it has long wanted -- an end to Roosevelt's safety net.
And the GOP's main patrons don't need their Social Security checks.
5
@Deirdre...Cut off pay to the House of Representatives if you want to get something done.
A wall across the border was approved in 2006.
That law also gives the President the authority to do use military funds and resources to secure the southern border.
The law is clear and doesn't allow for a lawsuit to prevent or delay.
6
So what’s this about then? I’m glad the government will reopen now.
4
Ok please suggest which military program should be abandoned in favor of building a wall.
1
I wonder if the GOP isn’t really a party anymore.
Two years of single party rule and what did they accomplish but stuffing judiciary?
Then they come out and “show unity”?
9
Only 5% of respondents think congressional Republicans are responsible for the shutdown?? What are people smoking?? They could it end it tomorrow if they wanted to. Congressional Democrats need to remind people of that day in and day out, along with playing the video of Trump taking responsibility for the shutdown.
18
The Democratic intransigence is unsurprising. Triumphalist, even.
2
Can someone please distinguish for me the difference between this and treason?
Hostage crisis chosen for this exact moment in time. Billions of downstream consequences. Intended and unintended. TSA, ATC, National Parks, IRS, Border Patrol, Secret Service, etc.
Remember that he could have signed those bills in December and negotiated the wall after the fact. But this is happening because he needs massive leverage to make the wall happen. That ought to tell you something.
When you have to take something by force, the possibility that you may be wrong goes way up.
10
Is there no courageous Republican senator with a conscience left to stand up to Trump? Any argument from any one of these Republican politicians that their party is not the party of Trump and that they are there to serve the people is pure sham.
10
The American experiment in democracy has failed.
Maybe Texas had something partially right all along and secession is the solution...
... but not totally right. It needs to be a Progressive Secession.
4
If you are correct the two Rs (Russians and Republicans) had a lot to do with this. Well done — interestingly, both have been doing it while waving the American flag.
2
I've been saying for some time that it's Trump's handlers and the GOP Congress that are more to blame than him. But with this Wall tantrum, he's bigly culpable. Indeed, McConnell & Trump; perfect together.
7
Trump thinks he is buying a car. Walk away to get better deals.
6
Honestly, what will a wall do? People with sense know many people who are here illegally came by boat or by flying and overstaying their visas. The wall will not solve anything can we just agree to that? The president, not my president is a giant older baby, who cries when he cannot get his way and just like a child needs to be put in time out or prison or impeached altogether. Throw him and his wall out the door please. and pay the people. no need of a hostage situation.
6
New rule: Let's have everyone in Congress and the White House work during the shutdown but not get paid either.
14
Nancy Pelosi said in no uncertain terms NO. Temper Tantrum Trump thinks his theatrics will scare Nancy Pelosi. He should know better. If he really thinks that he can declare national emergency and build the wall, why can’t he simply do it. One could say, that he prefers to go through normal process. I think he is really afraid that courts may declare there is no emergency or at the minimum it could drag on forever. If courts declare that there is no emergency, his second term will be buried.
19
I don’t believe Mr Trump will get a second term, no matter what. I do believe the American people see his administration for what it is now.
9
You possible solution:
Dems and Republicans could resurrect the previously agreed, bipartisan solution ($1.3 billion for enhanced border security). Border security should be defined precisely: e.g., increased surveillance of the border and surrounds by plane, satellite, border patrol officers; replacement, as needed, of EXISTING ports of entry barriers with steel slats; and deployment of state-of-the-art methods for detecting border crossings along the entire length of the border (laser, etc). Enhanced detection methods have the advantage of being capable of continual improvement of detection over time (especially when compared to a wall).
Plus: a boatload of money for additional immigration judges, SAFE housing of detainees, and financial support for foster parents and other hosts.
34
Now we are starting to make some sense. Even though the president owns this shutdown, the Dems should take on the mantle here and show the American people that they do come first, victory for the Dems again.
2
Great suggestion, exactly what the Dems have offered, and what Trump was ready to sign, until he wasn’t.
2
The president promised to sign last minute appropriations bills to fund the government but changed his mind after watching far right TV personalities. He then demanded 5B for a “border wall” to keep totally unrelated US government agencies and personnel working.
This is the key question we should be focused on - Should government agencies, employees and contractors be held hostage to achieve a minority political objective in our democracy?
I say absolutely not.
20+ years of Republican government shutdowns have cost us far more than keeping government running and have accomplished nothing.
By this reasoning, Democrats should shutter the government to bring back 1950-60s level tax rates. (when incidentally we had largely balanced budgets and a booming economy).
Should Democrats shut down government to get single payer health insurance for all Americans?
To insure permanent residence or citizenship for DACA recipients?
To pass a 10 year multi-trillion dollar and badly needed infrastructure plan for the US?
To fully fund early childhood education, a first-world maternity leave policy and provide affordable child care support for working parents?
These are all things that the majority of Americans support by the way. We don’t have them because of Republican obstruction.
It’s tragic that so many Americans continue to vote for a party that opposes their best interests and wishes.
71
Both Democrats and Republicans should have their paychecks withheld while this shutdown is occurring. They will probably not feel the same amount of pain that these federal employees are experiencing but at least they could show some sympathy towards those without a regular income. Many are quite well to do but what is fair for these employees is only fair for these politicians. Maybe these rich politicians could even send their own money to these struggling employees as they would not feel the loss like the employees. It certainly would be very charitable of them and they would not look so heartless to America. Many would agree this is a very good idea.
17
@WPLMMT The House passed legislation. The Senate did not. Start there.
1
Trump wants it all his way. He does not see other sides. He does not see the chaos he creates. He thinks he can just throw a wrench in the works of the finely tuned government engine. He does not know what it is like to need money for the next house payment. He thinks it is all the fault of the democrats. He also thinks He is always right. He is unlikely to back down. This has worked throughout his life and he expects it to work now. He only sees things as related to him. He has a handicap of some kind that limits him. This is the kindest way to look at his inventions and his lies. Republicans really need to take step up and take charge at this point. No one wants generalized spreading chaos with unforseen impacts, unpatroled and unmanned situations, open to mischief of any kind. No one wants lasting negative impacts.
14
Context, context, context: the Republicans has a majority in both Houses & the presidency just last month & the last 2 years. They could have worked together without the Dems to pass a bill with a wall. The press needs to keep reminding citizens of this fact. And now the Dems control the House & and have no mandate to build a wall. There is absolutely no need for brinkmanship.
38
That’s because republicans are not actually interested in building a wall. They just want to blame democrats for obstructing it because they think that’s a winning issue for the next election. We shall see if the american people are dumb enough to vote republican again. Republicans are interested in cutting taxes for the wealthy and eliminating regulations for corporations. That’s it. Everything is is pure politics.
7
If Democrats are to remain "entrenched" in their resolve to not approve funding for trump's wall, then they need to more forcefully and more publicly propose alternative solutions that address the larger problems faced by our immigration system. It's not enough to simply label the wall as "immoral" and make the debate about trump's temper tantrums -- such an approach plays right into the false narrative pushed by right-wing media pundits that depicts Democrats as favoring "open borders". Democrats need to publicly demonstrate that it's possible to address border security while also recognizing that a wall is an ineffective and impractical approach to a more complex problem. They need to use their newly gained leverage in the House to focus the narrative on what the real problems are, then propose new solutions and legislation based on evidence and facts, rather than the falsehoods espoused by the trump administration -- solutions that are not only more humane, but which reflect American values that celebrate, rather than denigrate, what immigrants bring to our country.
9
What planet have you been on the past few years, when immigration reform bills were routinely killed by Republicans. And what do you think the last bi partisan compromise did other than address the very issues you note. The wall is an ineffective solution to a non existent problem. There are plenty of crises in the world today- enough for everyone, but immigration thru our southern border, legal or illegal, is not among them.
1
You have to admit, watching one man single-handedly destroy the GOP's prospects for decades to come is pretty impressive.
And, they couldn't have found a better man to do it, then Donald Trump.
44
@Chicago Guy: What a great comment! Made me laugh out loud. Donnie for the Win! Roar of the crowd as the Democrats take over everything, eventually.
4
Happened to watch the end of "Lincoln" last night. I saw the moving scene at Petersburg, VA when Lincoln paid respects to the war dead on both sides, and heard his words as the Civil War ended, 'with malice towards none and charity towards all' -- it made me weep for the country of my birth. The utter lack of compassion in the current 'president' is not a mere character flaw; he is playing with matches, an arsonist burning up the nation's soul. He is misleading people because deception is something he has always done. He is petulant, dishonest and unforgiving. This is no healer, and he does not deserve the office. Rout him out.
43
Today is day seven for the new Democratic majority in the House.
The administration had two years of Republican controlled House and Senate and they did nothing to fund the wall.
Now it's the Democrat's fault that there's a shutdown? Where was the table slamming and outrage during two years of one party control?
37
Tantrums aren't a successful ploy when dealing with adults whether you are two or seventy two years old. It turns out that the great negotiator has no negotiating strategy. He's been stopped by an experienced mother and grandmother who knows how to deal with toddler tantrums.
37
I thought Paul Ryan was weak but this guy McCarthy is much worse. I've suspected this all along since the time he admitted that the Benghazi hearings were a political attack against Clinton and then made the comment about Trump and Rohrabacher working for Putin and Ryan had to remind him about "omertà"
What we are witnessing is the slow-motion suicide of the republican party.
Godspeed, GOP.
21
There's alot of justifiable anger at Trump and the Republicans in the Senate, but everyone keeps forgetting something important. They were voted in. The most culpable, enabling group are the conservative voters. They continue to vote for Republicans despite everything we know about them. Do any of Trump's or McConnell's actions surprise anyone? They're doing exactly what you'd expect them to do. But it's voters that kept Republicans in control of the Senate in November. Shame on them, and even more shame on people who didn't bother to show up to vote.
20
The Speaker needs to consider the hundreds of thousands of unemployed Federal workers , the forty million food stamp recipients and millions of refugees at the border and end the shutdown by accepting Trump’s offer. This is not a time for Democrats to turn their backs on minorities, the poor and unemployed.
5
Nor is it time for Trump to do so, either.
5
If this were the Democrats doing, that sounds appropriate. In this case the man who sits in the White House has had two years of power to complete his goals. This sits solidly in his hands.
7
2 years controlling all branches of government: no wall. Now the democrats control the house and you suddenly expect they will agree to an idea your own party rejected? When you loose power you get less, not more.
18
After hearing the Democrat’s version of the meeting and the Republican version, I believe Chuck and Nancy’s version.
We have all seen Trump in action and on Twitter. Republicans have no credibility with their story.
15
The majority of our fare citizens do not want a border wall. A border wall is un-American, ineffective and wasteful use of tax payer money. We are not living in the middle ages. This wall will create untold ecological damage to 172 threatened species that live along the border lands. In fact we should tear down the current barriers along the US Mexico border. No WALL!
11
he should do what he always does. declare bankruptcy and run away.
24
The president started this nightmare and he is behaving in such an immature manner. The country is completely shut down. That’s something that happens to other countries but not the United States of America. Very serious that no one cares about these workers and the contract laborers who probably will not get paid, ever. The president should be the person bringing us together not dividing us as a country. His attitude of “my way or the highway” is simply a very juvenile thought process. He is punishing innocent people for his own vanity. I live in Texas. I can guarantee there is no crisis at the border and anyone who supports President Trump should get in their car and come see it for yourself. He promised us that Mexico would pay for this wall. But now taxpayers are going to have to pay for it. That takes money away from West Virginia Kentucky Pennsylvania etc. all state that need help.The Democrats are probably going to lose this battle but the president is the one who started this and he’ll be gleeful when he gets his wall and yet that wall will not help a bit. We need judges, we need technology, we need someone to help the immigration judges get in there and get through folks who are trying legally to become citizens of this country but instead we’re going to spend billions of dollars on a wall that is not needed.The point of government is to help people not punish them and that goes for citizens and non-citizens alike.
8
The Speaker said that she was the constitutional equal to the President. Why doesn’t she use her power to end the shutdown ? She shouldn’t put her ego before the interests of unemployed federal workers, food stamp recipients and needy refugees.
4
That’s not really common ground.
Read the need. Dems offer bills to fund government, and McConnells Senate won’t bring them to a vote, or submit them to the President to sign, or override his veto. You got it backwards.
1
Pelosi may think that but there are constraints on what she can do.
1
Nothing has changed with Republicans in Congress in their unfettered support for Trump. Time to vote out Collins, Gardner, and all the rest of the rotten lot in 2020.
8
When I was growing up, in Portland, OR, one of the original pizza parlors was Shakey's Pizza. Shakey's had slogans on its walls. One of which was "Shakey made a deal with the bank. The bank don't make pizzas, and Shakey's don't cash checks."
Somebody needs to inform Pres. Trump about the notion of Separation of Powers. The Executive Branch don't make the laws, and the Legislative Branch don't execute and enforce the laws. If everybody would do their job as intended, all would be OK (well, maybe).
8
Unlike Trump, the 800000 suffering gov workers don’t have the luxury of declaring bankruptcy.
8
Is it not absolutely clear that our greatest threat is a certifiable man in the Oval Office?
( Made worse by the GOP tactics of utilizing him for their power plays over the welfare of our nation.)
I’d actually hoped in November of 2016 that Trump might rise to the office- at least in some marginally helpful ways.
Nope. We have a mad man and his henchmen- with a 1930’s Berlin inspired playbook as their guide.
No joke. He’s got to go- and just like a cancer- so does the surrounding infected tissue-
A sad state for our country and world.
12
Lessons learned: "Something there is that doesn't love a wall" Trump Foundation lawsuit distraction - that's what this is, at the expense of millions of government employees, the programs they support for millions of citizens, and to the delight of China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, Turkey, the EU, populists, etc., who are gleefully watching the unraveling of any coherent policy from this administration... not that there was a coherent policy to begin with, but now it's obvious that bloviating is not the solution, it IS the policy. Why is it that we can't invest in building good neighbors -- instead of walls? China tried the wall thing, now they're trying the 'belt' approach. Seems to be working for them. Lessons learned.
7
Ronald Reagan in Berlin - "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall"
Trump - "Build that wall"
The southern border is not Berlin. There is no way one can wall off the entire southern border with Mexico. Trump's comparison with Israel is ridiculous, since Israel has not walled off its entire border with the PA. some of it is a wall, most of it is a combination of a fence and hi-tech checkpoints. Parts of the border are open. The same should apply to the southern border. Build a wall only at a few selected strategic choke points, the rest should be a fence, or nothing. Drones with cameras can effectively locate people illegally attempting to cross, and ensure law enforcement are waiting for them. The idea than the US can be turned into North Korea or East Germany is as pathetic as it is fallacious, and would be an irresponsible squandering of public funds.
7
The Israel comparison is also false because the United States and Mexico are not sworn enemies.
1
If republicans were serious about stemming illegal immigration, they would be making a nation wide e-verify system the central piece of their policy.
Their policy is a wall, a potent symbol of blocked thinking and alienation from the self. A physical wall will never satisfy them without first tearing down the walls in their minds.
9
Mr. President,
We can build a wall if you repeal the tax cut for the rich.
We can build a wall if you give us medicare for all.
The art of the deal.
Let's compromise.
Illegal entry is illegal.
Enter our Country legally. What seems so difficult can be so simple.
Americans can negotiate!
Put it to a vote.
11
@s.whether Trump isn't letting people enter legally. He is only letting ~ 40 a day. And he refuses to get more Judges to hear cases more quickly.
What's more Trump has called for reductions in legal immigration for people & removing some lawful protections so he can send children back quickly.
Senate Republicans: show integrity and decency and end the shutdown by standing up to Trump and McConnell. Stop letting their re-election strategizing paralyze the country.
7
I agree with President Trump.
We have a right- US tax payers have aright to demand border security.
3
Border security and immigration reform, yes. Trump's ego wall, NO. Trump's hostage taking tactic of closing the government against the will of the majority, NO NO NO.
8
That’s a straw man of an argument. No one is arguing against border security. We are arguing against a wasteful and ineffective wall that (ahem) another country was supposed to pay for.
7
Will Great Leader tRump hold his breath until he turns blue ?
I'm waiting !
The 6 year old next door has more self control than the POTUS.
He is also a better negotiator too. He got me up to $4/wk for Internet Technical Computer Support. It was only $2.50 /Wk before the Feds raised Interest Rates. Something about Windows 10 . . . ?
2
Can't the 25th Amendment be invoked for petulance? End this fiasco!
4
Trump and, regrettably, his supporters, do not know the difference between negotiating over an important issue, and blackmailing over a non-issue. In any case, storming out of a meeting is childish.
4
We can only hope that those few Americans who thought having the Donald as President was a better idea than Hillary will now change their minds . They have to! Don’t they?
3
Won’t happen. But maybe people who think government should be run like a business will reconsider.
1
Is it just me or does Trump try to imitate President Bartlett from TV show The West Wing. This action of President going to the HIll to negotiate during a shutdown and walking out. (check it out Season 5 episode 8)
Of course Aaron Sorkin's President Bartlett was guided by principles something the reality show barker can't understand much less integrate.
Not the first time either, The "shoot someone on 5th Avenue" is derived from the show too.
Sad.
2
I have been thinking for two years that this is very much like House of Cards - constantly creating national security "crises" to deflect attention away from his criminal or otherwise deplorable behavior. I will check out episode 5 of West Wing. Used to watch it back in the day on actual DVDs!
2
I have always felt that arguments about crime and economics are a distraction when it comes to the issue of the wall. However I started doing some digging and came across some statistics that got me thinking.
According to the Department of Homeland Security, in fiscal 2018, ICE conducted 158,581 arrests for immigration violations. The agency’s year-end report says two-thirds (105,140) of those involved people with criminal convictions and one-fifth (32,977) involved people with pending criminal charges. Moreover, ICE says that only 16% of all the charges in 2018 were immigration related, which leaves a large proportion of illegals who committed other type of offenses. A break down by type of offense is not provided.
According to the FBI, 67,642 murders were committed in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. The General Accounting Office documents that criminal immigrants committed 25,064 of these murders. I have no way of verifying this data, but if true, this would be shocking to say the least !
Similarly, I just found that The U.S. Department of Justice documented that in 2014, 19 percent or over 12,000 criminal cases filed by prosecutors were for violent crimes; and over 22 percent or 13,300 cases were for drug related felonies. That same year, the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that 75 percent of all criminal defendants who were convicted and sentenced for federal drug offenses were illegal immigrants.
Lets build that wall tomorrow
3
If the situation were so dire, you would have fixed it in the last two years when the GOP had fill control of the government. But no. Tax relief for the ultra rich was far more important. By the way, if you are going to bandy about crime statistics, start looking at gin violence and work on a solution for that. Let's start the 25th Amendment competency exam today.
9
I don't see how the two sides could possibly find common ground until they agree on a defined scope, cost and schedule. Assuming the construction cost is $22 billion to wall off the entire southern boarder, as estimated by the Dept. of Homeland Security, that would equate to $157 per taxpayer based on 140 million taxpayers in the US. That estimate is probably grossly underestimated and it does not include maintenance. Factor in escalation and maintenance, it $300+ per taxpayer would be more realistic. Operational costs for boarder security would likely be reduced. I wonder how much support there would be among Americans if they each had to shell out $300 today.
https://www.brookings.edu/essay/the-wall-the-real-costs-of-a-barrier-between-the-united-states-and-mexico/
Also, why does this administration never talk about targeting the employers that hire illegal aliens?
4
If there was any doubt Republican lawmakers have sold their souls - it just evaporated. Cold, heartless, cruel, inhumane hipocrates who have obviously never faced the wolf at their door. So easy for them to not give a fig for the actual people who have been keeping our country afloat. Unconscionable callousness. Real people could go bankrupt, starve, or worse (think 1929 stock market crash) in one of the richest countries on the planet that has little to no feasible safey nets for its society - which is exactly why it's entirely probable this could happen. We're suppose to "Eat Cake" are we? The blood is on your hands Trump, McConnell, Republican Senators. Dispicable.
5
The master deal maker hath painted himself into a corner.
A fool’s journey he has embarked on.
1
Mueller is getting closer. Mueller is not going to allow Trump to weasel or bully his way. He’s getting closer and closer. And Trump must be feeling the heat.
Trump is losing it because he can’t handle the heat of the Mueller investigation.
Instead of fighting Mueller, on turf which spells “Obstruction of Justice” - he’s having a fight over a delusional wall. He’s having a tantrum with the Democrats - over something he could have insisted on when he had an all GOP Congress.
The wall will not save him from Mueller. But right now it’s like a “security blanket” - a familiar substitute object, which makes him feel powerful.
It’s all very babyish. But that’s where we are.
The GOP Senate is fostering his delusions about the wall. That is the exact wrong way to handle a decompensating individual.
This will end badly. For Trump. For the nation. God help us all!
1
Defer the wall budget request and get back to governing, however lame that may be at present. Have a referendum on the wall, I don’t think anyone would be surprised how unpopular it is. Put the money to the crumbling infrastructure. Perhaps more money towards stopping the appetite for drugs. That can be done by making people happier. Better social programs, meaningful employment, maybe even, dare say, it universal health care.
Oh, and stop being a lying narcissistic megalomaniac. That might improve things.
4
Trying to speak with Donald Trump is like talking to a wall, which is why he loves walls to be built in his honor. DJT has yet again disgraced and dishonored all Americans. God help us all.
1
Double Down Donald and his GOP buddies had 2 years of full access to our national government- the WH and both houses of Congress.
Now it’s a crisis!?
Do not be distracted.
Chuck and Nancy must not budge. Ever!
The final answer is no wall! Period.
Let DJT implode while Dems work on putting policies through the House to the senate and put mitch and DJT in a position where they will have to say no to legislation for the next two years that the majority of voters want to see enacted.
DJT’s legacy will be that he has ruined the GOP brand for a generation- and mitch helped!
1
The republicans had two years in the majority to get this resolved. They didn't do anything except pass a bad tax cut. Now they are blaming the democrats for not doing what they should have done in the last two years? Boo Hoo. Cry me a river.
5
No wall, no discussion. discuss border security after the government is funded.
7
This puerile behavior by Trump is a classic negotiating stunt and common fare for big time real estate developers. Unfortunately he seems to have forgotten that negotiating the end to a government shutdown is a different skill set than squeezing contractors. Further proof that he's totally over his head and out of his element in government.
3
I am thinking about starting a grass-roots draft Nancy for 2020 campaign. I could care less how old Nancy is or that she is Speaker of the House. All kidding aside Trump has given The Left the blueprint on how to beat him in 2020. Trump can't handle a tough as nails women. I wished when Trump was following Hillary around the stage in the debate she told him to get off her back. Hindsight is 2020. Trump the Bully is suddenly Trump the toddler when he can't get his way. Trump's next ploy may be to hold his breath until he gets his wall. What a predicament have we gotten ourselves in with Donny at the helm? 2020 can't come soon enough.
1
We are dealing with a person who brings "Game of Thrones" themed posters to cabinet meetings. He's crazy.
The Senate needs to do what the Constitution designed it to do!
8
What a set up!
A quicky meeting with Senator Schumer and Speaker Pelosi, will enable Donnie to claim to have tried everything to defend against the Brown Caravan of the Apocalypse.
Alas, his only best and last step: Imperial power.
Declare a "National Emergency" and fund a wall or Slats of Steel or Physical Barrier,
by shifting congressionally approved funding around.
To deflect Donnie's ploy, Speaker Pelosi should move an itemized border security budget through the House.
Reflection: Why give Donnie a blank check? What does he want to build? Where does he want to build it? Does the Fed have rights to land to be used?
1
Maybe next time,he'll hold his breath until he gets the money.
4
The United States of America led the world in so many ways in the 20th Century. From it's Democracy-saving role in WWI and WWII, to advances in science, engineering, medicine, the arts and humanities, and in the strength of our 'rule of law.'
Now comes the 21st century, and rather than leading the world in new ways...environmental protection, clean energy, stronger alliances in the cause of democracy, and more of the same in all human endeavors we have...drum roll please...a WALL to keep out Latinos (not any other illegals) that simply won't keep them out. Conservatives and Trump supporters, you should be ashamed. You are the people that cursed and swore against every other advance in the cause of human dignity made and earned with blood since the discovery of fire.
3
The president could hand out the paychecks of those affected by the shutdown and still continue the shutdown. The victims are suffering and many are dependent on their checks to pay the necessary bills that are due. The bill collectors will not wait and this is causing undue stress for many. Most of us can only go for a limited time without pay before we are destitute. It is difficult for many to save enough money today for emergencies because the cost of living is high. These people have families and they are also affected. A paycheck would be a big boost and they do deserve money for work performed. I hope the Republicans come up with a feasible solution for these employees and get them some much needed money soon.
21
Ok, I have to admit I was wrong about something.
I thought Nancy Pelosi was the wrong choice for speaker. I thought that she was too temperate and too moderate. I thought we needed a new leader to aggressively take on the cause.
After her words today, I have this to say:
Ms. Pelosi, I was wrong. I am proud to be on your team. I am proud of you today. I have faith that you can make this our country again, and wrest the power away from this madman.
Keep on doing what you’re doing!
204
It is worth remembering that the Great Recession which started in Oct 2007 didn't have it full impact until 2010 when the housing market hit bottom and we are still recovering from it. As a economic disaster ripples through our society, we can't know how far it will go nor how bad it be until years later. This shutdown may be the last straw for a small business and it goes under. That removes a major employer in a small town and the effects of jobless people start to topple small businesses in the town such as Mon & Pop restaurants. And the owners of those places stop buying supplies and another company is effected. And the effects go on. trump is wrong; people don't just adjust. They crash.
33
I am surprised that I haven't read any references to Robert Frost in relation to the wall:
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down." I could say "Elves" to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me,
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbours."
12
Didn't somebody say that "Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of mankind?"
1
The president’s “you must give me what I want” approach to negotiating an agreement to open the federal government will only make it more difficult to find a settlement. Senator McConnell needs to be helping the parties to find what is workable.
14
Sure. You mean Senator McConnell from the great state of Kentucky?
2
In the theater it's called flop sweat. Trump is starting to realize nothing is working and is desperately trying to shift the narrative. Maybe his base loves the hard stance but few others do although getting back to work matters to many.
At this point it's Senate Republicans ball to play and they folded as he no doubt knew they would. Their only way out is to hide from constituents, easy for them since they've been hiding from doing their jobs for years.
30
There is a Crisis in Campaign Promises, and another Crisis in figuring out how the new NAFTA with in some cases LESS tariffs could possibly have any new money assignable to the WALL.
5
Unfortunately, when Trump said during his convention that only he could fix things, he meant no one else would be involved when a decision was made--it would be him telling everyone else the answer to [insert problem]. But that's called a dictatorship, and we have a democracy here. Moreover, when Rs win elections, they call it a "mandate" for whatever they want to do, but when Ds win elections, it's somehow a misunderstanding or mistake that Rs have to remedy by being uncooperative with the Dems, and even blocking anything they want to do. I believe the vast number of seats won by Dems in November, enough to take the House, was a pretty strong statement, otherwise called a mandate. That was a statement indicating how most of us want things to go for the next 2 years, but Mr. Trump continues to believe, or at least act, like he has a mandate for whatever he wants. Finally, he couldn't get much of what he wanted when his party was in full control of Congress, including this wall! How in the world is that the fault of the Dems? If anything, the election results were "we the people" making sure that Trump didn't keep a majority in both Houses and actually get his policies passed. Elections (and treating people poorly) have consequences, and that is what this is about. I urge Pelosi and Schumer to stand their ground.
28
I think when planes don't fly because there are no TSA workers- and who can expect them to continue working without pay?- this shutdown will end. That's when it will start affecting tens of millions of people, rather than "just" federal workers.
30
TSA? I am ten times more concerned about ATC!
2
Why demand only five billion? The DHS's estimate from 2017 made it clear we're looking at fifteen to twenty billion and change for barrier construction and acquisition of property. Is Donald committed or not?
9
Democrats starting point in these negotiations should be as follows: add up and pile on everything they have wanted over the past many years--including reversing the recent tax bill favoring the rich--into a single bill and then, while making clear their continued objection to the wall, throw in 1/2 billion for its construction. As the Republicans concede material points in the bill to the Democrats the dollar amount for the wall goes up.
6
All those people in the picture and everyone that is facilitating Trump has to be on the take--just follow the money and it will lead into the pockets of senators and congressional reps and all his appointed officials.
13
One person controls this government shutdown! It’s the President’s call. He chooses to sacrifice hardworking Americans for a border wall/barrier/fence will take months to years to construct - a lengthy time frame considering the immediate danger and crisis we are supposedly facing. Federal workers should not be held hostage for something that can’t and shouldn’t happen. One has nothing to do with the other. Trump stated quite clearly that he would own this shutdown and now he does. He is the one responsible - he is the President.
20
OK, so Mr. Trump might not get his wall/fence, but meanwhile how are things going with Mrs. Trump's anti-bullying campaign? He must be proud of her accomplishments.
24
I am a furloughed federal worker. I am a public servant who works to present the best available science so that decisions can be made to protect the public from environmental health hazards. As a standard practice I present the best available science in the most tranpsarent manner so that people can have confidence in my work. I wish POTUS had integrity so that I could have confidence in him. I wish Congress would do their job so that I can go back to doing mine.
Two years ago POTUS campaigned on a promise that Mexico would pay for the wall. Today POTUS refuses to pay Americans until Americans pay for the wall. That is a crisis of the heart.
63
Hang in there, Michelle. Many of us respect your work and believe no one should be expected to go to work without pay.
That includes Secret Service agents, Border Control Agents, IRS workers and Coast Guard.
We all deserve to get Federal Tax Refunds processed as well.
Thank you for your dedication and I will call my Republican Congressman to request he support re-opening the government.
10
@Michelle A
Well, all the democratic leadership opposing the barrier now were for one before Trump wanted it, proving that there is no penalty for flip flopping in politics.
1
I am retired and do not personally participate in Twitter, but I understand how it works and the effect of mass public comments on political questions .
Every American and federal employee who is affected by the shut down should Tweet to their Senator or Congressman. The people in their offices who watch public sentiment with a radar like focus. You wanna get their attention? Tweet (in public) your position and they will take notice.
12
House Leader Nancy Pelosi should focus her efforts in legislating, rather than the useless discussions with Trump. It would be wise to shore up like minded republican support in the congress to get veto proof majority and open up the government.
If Trump needs a wall, he must come around. It is about time he understands how to govern with partnership of congress in crafting a bill and a policy that lasts for generations to come. Congress should commission a study on the right mechanisms for border security that lasts with times and fold that under broader immigration policy. Let the border security experts come up with the right solutions - be it a wall, fence, drones, etc., or a combination of that.
This is not a Trump Org. condo project where he can dictate the terms that comes of his feeble mind. Even for a Trump Condo project, no city would approve it unless it meets city regulations, feasibility analysis, environmental impact study and so on. There is nothing as such done here.
12
This is so clear.
For two years, the party of the President had the majority in both chambers of Congress. If this push for a wall was legit, then it should have been the first order of business on day one of the new presidency.
To now tie opening the government as a condition to further discussion after two years of an open field, is bad faith negotiation. And, just callous to our Fed employees.
31
Trump has no clue what a "negotiation" is. He wants to sit down and tell people what he wants and have them as his supposed minions do whatever he wants.
$5.7B for a barrier. What is it for and where did that number come from? There are already hundreds of miles of various forms of barriers. Does Trump want to replace them and add more with a beautiful wall that can have a Trump plaque emblazoned on it every mile or so?
Here is a basis for cost estimation. There are published numbers that indicate costs in the range of $1M to $5M per mile for construction of non-freeway and non-urban roads. At that kind of cost, Trump's $5.7 would build between 5,700 and 1,140 miles of road. Does a high quality fence cost as much as a reliable highway? I think not.
Moreover, non-wall border security is being debated as a separate line item, so we're talking wall only.
Sounds like one of two items:
1) Bait and switch where trump starts building a concrete wall because he has money that he can spend on what he really wants. He'll be sure that the wall design is not specifically described in legislation or else he'll ignore the legislation and make Nancy take him to court.
2) Crybaby Trump needs the assurances of the far right press and the $5.7B without compromise is merely an assertion of his manhood, as has been suggested by various Democratic leaders and columnists in this paper.
8
The more Democrats respond to Trump’s wall demands with a resounding ‘no,’ and focus solely on the hardships of the shutdown, the more I hear an impasse between apples and oranges. Trump’s wall is indeed an expensive and ineffective plan being slapped on the backs of taxpayers, and the government shutdown is a needlessly cruel assault on the most vulnerable among us who do not have the means to “adjust.” These are two separate issues that should not be bargaining chips.
Democrats have always supported border security; just not the ill-conceived solution of Trump’s wall, which will actually cost many times more tax dollars than what is being demanded now.
1. Democrats: Speak more on updated ideas - drones, planes, lights, vehicle search technology, immigration judges, efficient processing, and border patrol presence.
2. Republicans: Consider more updated and effective security options other than some fantasy “wall” intended to prevent Trump from looking foolish (that ship has sailed).
2. Both houses: Offer a starting level of appropriation for updated border security, but specifically earmarked towards what experts in the field consider effective in the real situation, not in an old man's paranoia.
4. All political sides: Reopen the government immediately, as this shutdown actually puts us all in greater threats of multiple national disasters and benefits absolutely no one, unless you’re in the business of extortion.
12
Trump had a deal, $1.6 billion for border security, which both the House and the Senate were ready to send for his signature. Then the word got out to the press and the right wing commentators complained so he reneged and added a new condition, $5.7 billion for a wall. Now even a three week shutdown has not forced the Democrats to capitulate to his demands and the blowback from the shutdown from at least a million people is likely to hit the press big time. Trump is not ready to tell the right wing critics that he cannot make the Congress do as they wish and he is unprepared for the blowback from that. He’s looking at a lot of unhappiness from many directions and it’s already pushed his tolerance for distress into the danger zone. He feels like he’s in a pickle with no clear way around. That’s why he probably snapped.
14
Note that Trump said that "professionals", not experts, said the wall should be built. The House needs to question these "professionals" and review their support/basis for their opinions.
The House needs to make sure that these "professionals" are not foisting "junk science" opinions to support a $6 Billion dollar expense on Americans who already got hit for over a Trillion last year by the same President.
4
In the labor disputes I negotiated why didn't I think of the slamming fists on the table/walking out technique?
11
Mr. Trump is not a President who wants to govern, he wants to reign - and believes he's entitled, and can.
15
Bad Behavior Redux:
1) Isn't storming out of meetings and yelling at the other side of the table part of Trump's Art of the Deal type strategy? I'll bet it was pre-planned and maybe even rehearsed.
2) Susan Collins: isn't this how she always handles difficult situations? She pretends to be fighting for her constituents, acting on their behalf, and then when it counts- she follows party lines.
19
It is amazing that Trump is able to pull off this stunt and his party still supports him? May be the framers did not expect some one like Trump to be in a position of so much power and misusing it?
So should the Democrats abolish the electoral college and curb the presidential powers for the good of the country and may be even the world?
800000 workers are left without a pay check? Does the Republican party and Trump have no shame?
8
If the threat to the country is so dire perhaps the president should fund the wall himself. He is a billionaire and successful businessman after all. It couldn't be that hard for him to make another fortune.
11
Whether anyone thinks a wall is a good idea is really not the issue. The issue is Trump can keep the government shut until he gets is way, because he only cares about winning and does not care about the people he impacts. It is that simple. Dems are not in a position of strength.
4
Can one of your esteemed political writers please explain clearly to the American people how this entire episode is a complete sham designed to cause the public to blame Democrats for a prolonged shutdown. To Review:
1. Trump promised in the campaign to build a wall, and that Mexico would pay for it.
2. Trump took office with Republicans controlling BOTH houses of Congress
3. In 24 months of power, Trump and the Republican Congress did NOT pass funding for the wall, starting to discuss it only when it looked like Democrats had a chance to take back the House
4. After Democrats did win back the house, the Republican congress had a window to pass border wall funding and still did not pass it. (this is because most Republican lawmakers are no more interested in allocating $5.8 Billion for a wall than most Democrats.) What they did do in December was pass a temporary funding measure to kick the can down the road until January when they could...
5. Blame the Democratic controlled House for both NOT funding the wall AND causing the government shutdown.
How anyone with a functioning memory can pin ANY of this on Democrats (as many posters seem to be doing) just mystifies me. It's political theater and Trump and the Republicans are shutting down the government to do it. It's just the latest example that Republicans prioritize their party first and the United States of America second (or in Trump's case third, with Russia a close second to the party).
15
How about the Democrats offering a budget with the same details as the 2013 immigration plan they supported? It has money for a wall, stepped up staffing/enforcement, DACA and more.
5
I know this point isn't as important as other things Individual-1 has done; however...
Why can't Trump address "Chuck and Nancy" by their official titles? He's done that before with them and others (like the president of Mexico). He shows so little respect for anyone, and this is just another example.
16
The very definition of a sociopath is that they are unable to feel empathy or remorse--clearly our president demonstrates these characteristics daily--along with his constant lying. Empathy for all the federal workers who will try to manage without a pay check is not what we expect from him--and he'll never feel remorse for any of his mean-spirited actions.
I have to take issue with the statement by Mr. Fandos and Mr. Tackett that "the president’s forceful response in the meeting and on television, has papered over cracks that threatened to upend his negotiating position." I would hardly call the petulant, irate, angry, vindictive reponse of the president "forceful", which connotes a strong person expressing strong emotion. Trump is neither strong nor does he experience emotions the way normal, mature individuals do.
14
Trump in charge of the government has been the fox guarding the henhouse. Shutting it down is a natural extension to the process he already began to gut just about every institution whose mission is to protect the people in health, education, the environment and national resources. Of course he’d let it last years if he could.
In classic doublespeak he has the gall to claim his wall is for our welfare and security
5
During this shutdown, why are the president and congressmen getting paid? Like the 800,000 workers, their paychecks should also stop.
6
Trump is getting what he wants--top billing in this drama. But the equally guilty Republican is Mitch McConnell. All the pressure needs to go on his head, and Senate Republicans.
8
Tax payers deserve the functioning government we paid for. One person is holding us up for ransom. It’s not right. Neither is political punishment in the face of disaster. California has paid for and deserves FEMA assistance now!
4
Can the senate Republicans just elect a new majority leader? One that will bring the funding bill to the floor?
9
We need to pressure a handful of Republican senators go Independent and caucus with the Democrats.
5
I think I have the solution. Dems should propose that they will fund the wall if Donald agrees to provide an equal sum of money to be used for hiring additional auditing staff for the IRS. The sole focus of this expanded IRS audit group would be to focus on the rich. The additional tax dollars collected from enhanced IRS audits of the rich would easily offset the costs of the wall. Looks like a win win situation. Donald gets his wall and the rich pay for it.
51
I have another idea. Let’s use that money to fund the Atlantic City casinos, so in this way they will not go out of the business. It is a win win solution.
Putting in a word for small business in Greater DC— there are things to do and see that are not run by the federal government, including state parks, non-federal museums, theatre, and restaurants. If you’re interested in being in DC at a time when you will encounter less traffic, room on Metro, and fewer crowds, please come. We are much more than the Zoo and the Smithsonian, and a lot of small businesses are feeling the pinch, whether its the smaller lunch crowds because workers are at home or less money spent because feds are not getting paid and tourists don’t realize all the other pursuits they can enjoy in the area.
Hang in there, brothers and sisters. Thomas Jefferson said that there is “no higher calling” than public service.
31
@Lawyermom "No higher calling" has become "a voice crying in the moneyed wilderness."
The Trump Party is what used to be the GOP. It is now Trump's Swamp, Big Biz, even Biggest Money.
They could care less about the 120+ million of the rest of us because most of them are part of the above.
The Dems are the party of the people, and they care about whats happening to the furloughed federal workers, who cannot pay their mortgages, rent, gas and food. And those who rely on food subsidies to survive. And those who rely upon the federal workers for business.
And farmers who aren't being subsidized, and those who can't rebuild their houses from the recent storms and hurricanes, etc.
43
@Quandry
So why don’t they fund the wall and move on? Could it be that the American people aren’t who they really work for?
2
A shutdown hurts more than federal workers, it hurts everyone in the US today. We need a functioning government, federal workers have important jobs to do - they don't just cash salary checks. Democracy requires compromise and attention to election outcomes. The majority expressed their opinion in the last election. We have enough walls, security does not require more walls. What we need is a President who understands his job, instead of one who stokes fear and rules by threats.
66
Next time he wants to "negotiate", make him come to the Hill. DT's alleged willingness to negotiate is mere pretense designed to help him save face with Fox and Friends and, perhaps more importantly, to deflect attention from the Mueller investigation closing in on him.
56
If Trump was serious about his wall he would compromise for part funding. It is clear this is purely political using government employees as hostages. If he wins, what next? This is not a political game we are playing, but a show down of Trump's making that will bring us one step closer to autocracy.
41
Are the Senators and Representatives getting paid during the “government shutdown?” Ethically and morally they should not be drawing paychecks while other Federal employees are furloughed.
72
@Richard Mays Of course they're getting paid, under the laughable phrase "essential" but based on their lack of output they're anything but that.
Individual Representatives and Senators are ordering the appropriate offices not to pay them during the shutdown. Otherwise, members of Congress continue to be paid whether the government is open or shut.
1
@Richard Mays Yes they are and just got raises too!
"For now, at least, the president’s forceful response in the meeting and on television, has papered over cracks that threatened to upend his negotiating position."
This is in no way accurate.
45
My fear is that while the Press is occupied covering Trump's wall rants, he is signing away our democracy behind closed doors. He may not appear very smart, but that's what makes a good con-man.
38
As we have often seen, when Trump is losing, he doubles down. He is the kind of used car salesman that increases the price as you walk away from the deal cause he thinks you will think you missed something and should have taken his first offer. However, whether it's a wall or the Brooklyn Bridge, the American People are still being conned.
44
With this turn of events it looks like those 800000 Fed employees will have to adjust. I suggest calling Dad and ask for a couple of million dollars.
35
100 million $ if I recall.
The major broadcast news outlets got Candidate Trump elected by putting him on the air for thousands of free minutes whenever he called, counting on the fact that he would say something outrageous that would stir up more of the voting public. Now he's paying them back with each outburst, keeping those ears and eyeballs tuned in and advertisers happy.
34
@Paul Gallagher
SO TRUE! If the media had only paid att'n to the candidates whose words were truly worth publishing, we would not be going through this now.
4
If I didn't know trump had already lost it, I would think that he is losing it now.
33
@Judy Johnson
He hasn't lost it. It's just outgrown him.
The promise that “he” made was “Mexico will pay for it”. How come that never comes up in conversation?
45
So much winning. MAGA - many are getting arrested.
29
@Ceen And while many are getting arrested More Are Getting Angry.
1
All of the ways that Repubs blocked Obama are now coming back to bite them ?
What in the world did they expect ?
42
Trump started trade wars, trade deficit skyrocketing, focused on border, larger caravans coming. He is just not good at fixing things. If a surgeon takes out the wrong kidney, get a new surgeon. How long will it take to Make America Great Again after he is gone?
16
@fauxnombre America IS great. It's the tiny hands that are mixing things up.
2
Dems standing firm on trump's vanity waste of money project. He owns this shutdown mess, Do Not Bail trump Out of this!
53
"Do what I want or this is a waste of time" is not actually a negotiating position...
46
Perhaps Pelosi and Schumer should respond in kind at their next "meeting" and simply spend it laughing and pointing at the petulant toddler? (No offense to toddlers of toddler age).
31
When I was a young kid, there was a friend in our neighborhood who always made a big deal of threatening to go home if he didn't get his way when we played baseball, whether pitching or playing a certain position and everyone would give in to his tantrum; then one day we all made up our mind when he acted out we were going to say no and see what he would do....he threw the ball down hard into the ground and turned around and went home, like a little baby.....that's Donald Trump, it's time for this baby to go home for good.
Trump needs to be removed from office, if he can't do the job.
30
This is an excellent example of what happens when you a) elect a narcissist as "president" and b) place party over country. To the Trump supporters...you may not feel the brunt of his cruelty just yet but trust me...it's coming. There will not be one person in this country that comes out unscathed...you included.
24
The Republicans are sticking together like lemmings running off a cliff.
Mitch McConnell's decision to subjugate the Senate to Trump is destructive of our system and our country -- not to mention the environment, the Free World, ..
34
Beware of false equivalencies between Trump and the Democrats! Perilous.
12
Another proof that national government is impotent and an enormous waste of treasure and time. Trump is an intolerable, incompetent, narcissist and the republicans supporting him are fiberless amebas. Democrats may be the only semi-adults in town but they first and falsely seek preservation not growth or progress. We the people are not much better, where are the protests, outrage and political up-roar that demands common sense governance? Those self-evident TRUTHS are rapidly being compromised. Time to stand up or leave .....
6
@LGL, it was thoughtful of the government to leave the exit south so wide open and unobstructed. It’s like that was the Dems plan all along so their wealthy backers could keep the place all to themselves. Now we know why Chuck and Nancy are so adamant.
1
Trump still has trouble understanding that the presidency is not a dictatorship.
32
With all the thousands of lies Trump has told, both before and after the election, why should democrats - who have now gained a foothold - help him by compromising in order to help him make good on his lies? Especially on his lie to build a wall with Mexico paying and bringing jobs back to America that have been outsourced to make huge profits for corporations and the wealthy.
When you back a liar, you become a part of the lie. Let the Republicans do that.
17
It would have been funny had Speaker Pelosi pulled a trump and agreed to approve a wall after Trump ended the shutdown, only to reverse herself later. She's too honest to do that, but just imagine how furious Trump would have been and how little sympathy he would have deserved after all his own lies and self-contradictions.
30
That would be so rich.
1
Every day, in every way, our naked Emperor becomes more childish. He is having a serious case of psychological regression.
What one really wonders is how can the majority of Republicans stand by him?
Don't they see the writing on the wall?
26
@pkbormes
Republicans would say build the wall and then we will be able to see the writing on it.
1
@pkbormes They have to stand by him There's money to be made if you can get close enough.
The remoras are still hanging tight onto to that large marine animal now making waves in the Oval Office, but one by one they are dropping off. And the water is going to get a lot rougher before this journey is over. This "crisis" is like a fish: it stinks from the head down.
11
Donald Trump is the "total waste of time." He has no clue how government works. He will hold on to his mythical "wall" until he hears the cell door slam behind him. When will the Senate Republicans figure it out and let him go. If they don't, they will be the ones to go.
15
Trump is only good at negotiating bankruptcies (he has a lot of practice). He is acting like a child - at some point he is going to threaten to hold his breath until he turns purple.
17
Read my lips: Merrick Garland
31
@Jeremy
That’s exactly what I said!!
Stop calling it a negotiation.
This is the GOP engaging in hostage taking with the American government as the victim.
29
Right, I remembered learning about checks and balances and the three branches of government. One branch is the judicial, the second is the house of Representatives, and the third has that peculiar name: senecutive. Or is it execusenate? Whatever. It's the one headed by Trump and his minion McConnell. So good to see them working in such harmony.
13
I suggest he hold his breathe until the Democrats give in. Further, I plead with the majority not to give in.
23
Considering Trump's love affair with Russia, I'm surprised he hasn't yet, in one of his fits of anger, taken off one of his shoes and pounded it on the table.
20
If he can declare a national emergency to get his way and get away with it, what’s next? Wish the GOP would grow a spine.
13
@Charles Chamberlin
DACA. Presidential legislating, no emergency declaration required.
Trump, Pence and their lot should have been pushed out of office months ago. Disgraceful, harmful and dangerous.
20
Truculent, petulant, childish, sophomoric...pick your adjective. This person is so manifestly unprepared to govern in a system based on compromise (and, in the deal, to confront a strong competent woman), that I'm wondering when he walks away from everything (declaring victory all the way, of course).
16
Good for Trump.
Pelosi now has time to book another Hawaiian Four Seasons Resort vacation. Maybe Claire McCaskill might treat Schumer to another $8,235 Cancun vacation. Oh but she's not around the Senate anymore. Too bad, Chuck.
3
So, basically, Trump supporters thing $5.6 billion is nothing, and $8,235 is a lot. God almighty, no wonder we’re in this mess.
2
@GWB
At least they pay for their own luxury trips instead of charging us hardworking taxpayers!
What is wrong with you? Trump spends millions on his golf excursions. His wall is a vanity project for politics only.
1
Trump tweeted “ Nancy said, NO. I said bye-bye, nothing else works!”
Saying “bye-bye” and stomping off hasn’t exactly worked up to now with anything, has it Mr. President? Next time why not try telling Chuck and Nancy that you won’t invite them to your birthday party. So there!
22
It's high time for Trump to storm out of the White House altogether. Clearly he is incapable of governing the nation, understanding how the government of these United States functions, nor negotiating as an adult. He is a danger to himself and everyone (i.e., the American people and the world population - with the possible exception of other dictators, terrrorists, and hostage takers).
Mr. Trump, Tear down your idea of a wall. And... resign from the Presidency,
14
Trump has negotiation confused with extortion.
24
Ho hum! This is a standard developer's ploy that sometimes works when they're dealing with an inexperienced zoning board. Nothing but a faux temper tantrum hoping the Suits can intimidate the Yokels.
I sat on a local zoning board and our policy was to say, "thanks" and call the next applicant.
Dunning-Kruger Don will be back.
11
Trump and his wall are highly symbolic for an obsolete version of manhood: blind power.
Pelosi's calm and firm "NO" are the perfect symbol of 21st century anti-ageism and female power.
15 million more voters just voted for Pelosi.
The country has made its choice, and you lost, Trump ...
23
Apparently, congressional members of the "Grand Old Party" have become gutless wonders who cannot stand up to the bully who runs the party now. Sad. Very sad.
18
Negotiation cannot happen under these circumstances. He is a bully with perverse ideas about what strength means. Waiting for Senators to wake up and stop collaborating.
7
If America is truly in a state of a "National Emergency" on our southern border, etc. even if the democrats were to agree to fund the wall, the wall will not be operational and in place overnight since it is a situation of "National Emergency".
Once again the President presents himself as a "Con Artist" trying to insight fear and manipulate the American public, this time at the expense of many hard working federal works and the American tax payers.
12
Trump: “given that Chuck and Nancy refuse to capitulate in good faith, there is nothing more to talk about.”
13
Of course he did. The Great Negotiator, Mr. Maturity, who uses only “the best words, folks,” apparently could not find the right words with which to negotiate with the Democrats. He’s been thrown into a tizzy by his self-induced ‘crisis’ over his absurd wall. I hope Schumer and Pelosi sent him to bed without dinner. What a brat!
14
My wife teaches kindergarten and she has space for Trump.
21
Big surprise, but this Don and Pelosi Show continues to divert eyeballs from newly revealed evidence of Trump-Russian collusion. So it may go on as long as Trump needs cover.
Suggested edit: "President Trump slammed his (teeny, tiny) hand on the table and stormed out..."
17
Because yelling and hitting things and storming out are how great negotiators work.
15
For 8 years, in the Midwest, I was a bartender at a bar located on an Indian Reservation. I've seen and heard my share of courage, cowardice, grace, vulgarity, wit, banality, stoicism, exuberance, bar fights, truces and make-ups.
Most of all, I learned to detect the signs of a person who is truly secure and tough both mentally and physically and who signals insecurity and weakness.
In all my bartending days, without exception, the sign of a truly tough guy or gal was that they never signaled, in the face of provocation, that they were, shall we say, perturbed.
On the other hand, the insecure and weak always slammed their beer on the bar to show "toughness" only to have their gluteous maximus handed to them.
Trump slamming his hand on the table? Just another tell of what I've always seen in him: an insecure, incompetent coward who is way in over his head.
Republicans, I almost pity you for having to champion the likes of Trump.
31
The large hadron collider cost $4.75B. Do we really want to be known for spending $5.7B or more for a wall? This is a national embarrassment.
15
How can McConnell and his followers hold their heads up in front of their constituents? how can they walk into their churches on Sundays? have they no shame? Sooner or later this shut down is going to hurt EVERYONE In this country and has already harmed our country. Trump acts as if he is the dictator McConnell enabled him to be, When I was growing up 80 years ago the White House was called the People’s house. Why can he not be evicted by the taxpayers? We need to get rid of this immature narcissistic person who thinks he can have his own way with everything. We should all be ashamed for having allowed this to happen.
18
Trump is desperate for a "win" over the wall to fire up his gullible base in preparation for the Mueller storm.
14
And Trump thinks he's a super negotiator.
10
If only the White House were shuttered during a shutdown . . . then we might be able to move forward as a country.
There are so few qualified people left in this administration and fewer still with any integrity or ethics. It's beyond disheartening that a country of 300 million, a global superpower, is being run into the ground by a lying, corrupt, and incompetent man-child.
Shame on spineless members of the GOP for tolerating this nonsense.
11
Trump storms out when Speaker Pelosi refuses to fund the "wall." Then Pence, McCarthy and the Republicans lie blatantly about the meeting, saying that Pelosi refused to fund "border security." Trump must have a "lying virus" because he has infected the Republican leadership. They are now all lying all the time.
The public isn't buying it. The majority of Americans blame Trump for the shutdown. The majority of Americans do not support the idiotic "wall." All of Trump's "facts" are lies. There is no crisis. The wall won't help. It goes on and on ad nauseum--and indeed Americans are becoming nauseated at Trump's disgusting behavior.
Trump gets weaker every day, and every day that he gets weaker, his behavior goes even further off the rails. Heaven help us!
Now I'm waiting for him to declare a National Emergency! If he is able to get away with that, I am waiting for the Democratic president in 2020 to declare the following National Emergencies:
1. Climate Change National Emergency
2. Voter Suppression National Emergency
3. Gun Control National Emergency
4. Health Care National Emergency
5. Trade National Emergency
I'm sure there will be a few more. Republicans should be careful what they wish for.
28
Presidential power does not exist in a vacuum. IT is Senate republicans that are giving the President any power that he may have or perceived.
Having said that, if McConnell allowed a straight up and down vote (and debate) then I am sure there would be enough republicans that would cut and run to have a majority veto override. I think the numbers already are more than enough for the same in the house.
Voting on anything whereas republicans are not in lockstep, or having been granted political cover, is just not how they do business though.
Been that way for a long time now.
13
Or force the veto,
1
And that is just what Mitch is afraid of.
If they aren’t going to pay the bills then why are we paying them federal taxes? We aren’t paying our taxes just to have trump gum up the works. No service, no payment.
8
I've yet to close a deal by walking away from the deal. I usually know when to walk away...but that means I don't seriously consider, one way or the other, about the deal.
Seems unreasonable to me to attempt to lead by this example. I wish no one was watching......
8
The Great Negotiator strikes again! Among other things proven by the past two years’ experience, being a real estate mogul in NYC is inadequate preparation for both politics and diplomacy. Though maybe if he’d actually been successful or self-made?...we will never know.
11
Art of the deal indeed. Who knew negotiating outside of family members could be so hard.
31
These workers are already looking for other jobs. Who knows if they’ll come back to work upon reopening.
7
@SXM and you base this on what evidence?
I wonder why almost no one is talking about the shameful history of American corporate and military intervention in Central and South America since the early twentieth century. Much of the terrible living conditions and political savagery that is driving people from their homes there is a long-term result of these policies. Oh, wait; I forgot. We don't teach much high-school history in the US any more and many--and perhaps most-- colleges and universities increasingly do not require even one or two courses. And the media could care less, if they knew anything about it to begin with.
32
@Harvey Green
I have heard this all of my life, but never been been given a shred of prooof. US corporations and/or military have been everywhere on this planet at one time or another, as have most other major powers. It does not follow that we are uniquely responsible for every undesirable aspect of those nations forevermore. Central America did not have some glorious post-Columbian prosperous era that then collapsed. It has always been impoverished. Before the Spaniards got there they were eating each other. What is new is that they now have seen that they don’t have to live that way. They can go north.
@KBronson: You've "never been given a shred of proof"? Try reading some Central and South American history and some US diplomatic history written by real historians--with thoroughly cited evidence drawn from primary sources, rather than the trash written by amateurs. But just to offer a few nuggets to get started, you might want to examine the CIA-backed assassination and ousting of Allende in Chile, the United Fruit Company's influence in Guatemala, and the various invasions and "police actions" in the Caribbean and elsewhere in the area that began in the early twentieth century. Corporate influence was behind almost all of them. The Spanish were brutal, violent invaders looking for gold.
What are you talking about in your reference to a "glorious post-Columbian prosperous era?" Glorious for whom? "Before the Spaniards got there they were eating each other" is a ridiculous blanket statement, and merely an indication of Trumpist ignorance based on simplistic interpretations of the past produced by amateurs and apologists for Spanish imperial invasions.
@KBronson: If you don't want to make the effort to read up on this, today (1/10/19) on NPR's 1A (a production of WAMU 88.5) there was a large segment on US intervention in Central and South America that began with an examination of the fallout of US policy in Guatemala. This information is not hard to find, but one needs to have an open mind and reasonable critical thinking skills to acquire it. The NPR show is easy enough to find on-line.
Sad thing is Trump may end up being right about a wall.Rather than a climate change denier I think Trump believes what many climate change scientists believe. CC has been moderate over the last 50 or so years but once it takes hold the changes will become exponential .Famine will be common in all equatorial regions of the world with mass migrations to anywhere that is habitable. Rather than be a world leader and fight to halt this process he has thrown in the towel and is building walls. Funny, there is no talk of a wall on the northern border.
7
I don’t believe “famine in all equatorial parts of the world” is a prediction made by climate scientists. It’s gonna be bad, but I think it’s important to accurately state what the current thinking is.
1
Schumer and Pelosi are playing chess. I don’t think they understand that Trump is playing poker. He might win.
5
If Donald Trump will only accept a $5.7 billion ransom to free his 800,000 federal government employees he's holding hostage for his "steel barrier" without making any significant concessions, then we're watching a crisis pitting an unreasonable autocrat, his Republican enablers and Congressional Democrats who are right to refuse to sell out the Constitution for a wholly manufactured crisis that requires no solution other than a firm rejection. It's time to end this fiasco by using the Constitution to override his budget veto to reopen the government. If that fails, Trump's unjustifiable shutdown should be challenged in the courts. The facts are clear. There is no national security crisis or emergency at the southern border other than the humanitarian one his "zero tolerance" policy has created.
17
It's important that 45 not be allowed to get his way on this because it then sets a precedent. He needs to understand that he can't always have his way. If he gets his wall funding via the shutdown, then he will use the shut down tactic again. He doesn't care about workers not getting paid etc. even if many of them are his so-called base. Of course one must keep him mind that this whole shenanigan is to keep his base support because without them his future is doomed -- because of trumpgate -- as he loses his fortune and his family is thrown in jail.
20
How to pay for $5b wall on the backs of federal employees:
800,000 workers * ~$7000/mo avg salary savings = ?
Interesting math, considering it’s looking like a one month shutdown. Is that where the Rep party is going?
8
Uhh, shutdowns cost the US money, not the other way around
1
@J S Those workers will eventually have to get their back pay.
1
The Government shutdown is an egregious and irresponsible abuse of power and a statement of utter disrespect for the sanctity of government workers and their families.
It is beyond disgusting that the Government should make it impossible for one of its employees to put food on the table for themselves and their children.
Bad as it is, the Government shutdown is a trivial transgression when considered relative to the enormous crime against humanity being committed by Trump, the GOP and their rich oil-baron backers in their fact-denying refusal to address human-induced climate change.
What is surprising is how passively the American people tolerate the abuses and usurpations their politicians heap upon them.
7
Government shutdowns were never intended as political weapons - they are the result of a failure to govern (no matter which party has the upper hand)....and govern is the primary responsibility of Congress. They wouldn’t run their private businesses in this chaotic manner.
Why are the Republicans still supporting our lunatic president - they can’t really (privately) think he’s making good decisions.
If Congress wants to show true leadership, pass the bipartisan appropriations bills (that they’ve already agreed upon in both houses), send them to the president for signature, let him veto them, and FINALLY override the veto(es) and reopen the government.
Holding hostage the paychecks of 800,000 workers (an ethics atrocity) over a single issue and a failure to govern (and comport oneself above the level of kindergarten) should be unconscionable.
Somehow, we made it through WW2 with divided White House and Congress, but those elected at that time actually remembered what their jobs were - to govern! Sure, parties can have differences but at the end of the day, they need to run the country professionally and efficiently. This polarizing kindergarten bologna has got to stop!
7
Hold the line! No Border Security - no end to the shutdown. This isn’t just what Trump wants it’s what the tens of millions of people that voted for him want.
5
Majority of Americans, don't want Donald's wall! Nor their tax dollars wasted!
As bad as this awful situation is and notwithstanding how many people are suffering because of this impasse, perhaps the silver lining is that more people will finally start to see Trump for what he really is and public opinion will be further strengthened against him. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer must continue to hold fast and be firm - sadly, like dealing with a two-year old (as Dana Milbank described today in the Washington Post, a la Dr. Spock's classic book, in dealing with the "terrible twos," - the parallels are frightening.)
Trump shows no respect for the presidency, for his colleagues, for anyone and anything that stands in his way. It's how he has conducted himself his whole life, and he will continue to lie and cheat his way through to the end. His twisted and abusive ways are being inflicted on the whole country. It is way beyond utterly embarrassing that we have come to this. The sooner Trump is gone from the Oval Office, whatever it takes, the better. Thanks to all the spineless members of the GOP, especially Mitch McConnell, who have aided and abetted this spectacle and sorry excuse of a president who is defiling the office, ruining our relationships with our allies, hurting so many citizens, and setting back progress on our environment and so many truly important problems. How can anyone of you sleep at night?
20
So I guess democrats are OK with the following? In November, the agency, which is named Customs and Border Protection apprehended 51,856 people trying to cross the border illegally. That’s about 1,700 per day. So rather than add $5B to the budget they decide to play politics on funding they had already approved in the past. The result is a partial government shutdown , the impacts are falling hardest on those who can afford it the least — and the effects will grow even more punishing if key agencies remain paralyzed beyond Feb. 1 and into March. At risk: food on the table for millions of vulnerable households, rental assistance and other safety net programs. I guess the dems are ok with this just to make a political point?
5
@Just 4 Play Hmmmm, They seem to have been stopped and apprehended without any wall. That would seem to show that a wall isn’t all that necessary for better border security. Spend the money on things that will improve security, both at airports and borders, that aren’t unrealistic, ugly, threats to the environment, won’t rob ranchers of their land, and aren’t useless.
The House passed a bill that would re-open the government on their first day in session. Now McConnell needs to put it up in front of the Senate so we can watch the members squirm around in their seats looking for their spines.
2
@Just 4 Play
We are seeing another historic realignment by the Democratic Party like the one that occurred in the mid 60’s when it shifted from being the defender of segregation to being the advocates of affirmative action, while trying to hold onto its role as the party of the “little man”.
As part of their commitment to the working people, they were always advocates of immigration control and border security to protect wages.
Now they are discarding that completely. They will still be “The Party of the People.” Just not this people.
So if Trump’s so tough, and he keeps telling everybody he is, and Republicans have been running everything for two years...how come it’s all worse?
1
Although the Democrat leaders have been Trump's punching bags and targets of the worst sitting president's abuses, they've also been in a delicate position to regain the presidency and the Congress by 2020. The best reaction would be a dry and loud clear No to Trump's quest for the border wall that he promised to the Americans, publicly though not under oaths, that it will be paid by the Mexicans.
Trump and his GOP attack dogs have ceased to act as responsible elected officials. Let's the course of history flow in accordance with our constitutional frameworks.
The silent majority of the American people will decide who are truly the enemies of the people.
The so-called border wall-linked government shutdown would not be able to misguide the public opinion from Trump's criminal investigations.
5
Trump is a lost cause. He will never agree to sign a bill that will include funding for the Wall, with or without shutting down the government.
Thus, it falls to the Republican Senators to unblock this logjam. Why do they think that intimidation and threats will force the opposing party to buckle down before them?
It does not work, and it will not work. The Republicans have set themselves for failure, by their own decision. They are deluded and unfit for government.
11
Toddler stomps feet, rolls on the floor and screams and hollers.
Parent says no candy.
Toddler screams louder and says he/she will hold their breath forever.
Parent says no candy and closes the door behind them as they leave the toddler in their room.
At that point the toddler begins to destroy his/her room.
We're at that point now and the adults, rightly, are still saying no candy.
The sad thing is it will take years to undo the damage this toddler has done.
16
Grand Old Party has become enslaved to a President who is throwing a tantrum because he did not get what he wants. How can the GOP stands for ordering Fed workers continue working during shutdown without pay. I thought we had a Democratic Republic not a Monarchy.
15
Trump has always gotten his way through bullying others and using his money (and his dad's) to get what he wants. If the Dems give in to his lies, it will not end here. He has created this crisis. And Republican senators have assumed his dad's role.
11
When trump left the room, he left about a million men and women without a paycheck, again. It's the art of the steal. The walls are closing in on him. He's so transparent.
6
Republicans are putting all their eggs in the Trump basket. They may find in 2020 that they end up with a nice omelet.
9
Someone should tell the president that the art of the deal is compromise not tantrums.
He doesn’t win if he takes his ball and goes home. His whole team loses.
8
As if the "give me what I want or I'll..." strategy is going to work. Same with the "storm out of the room" tactic. Maybe in a room of three year olds--which is more or less the Republican caucus as we know it. Nice to see our government reduced to the whims of romper room group think.
At the end of the day, it's just another Republican-engineered car crash, nothing to see here folks, just move along...
9
The Republicans remain spineless when it comes to Dangerous Donald, even though they know better, and so the shutdown will continue for the foreseeable future. History is not going to be kind to the likes of Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnell, and the rest of the terrorist Republicans.
12
If TSA workers were to suddenly all call in sick, things would change mighty fast for our little tyrant.
2
"Oh! What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"
5
It was inevitable that the Republicans would bring us here. For over 30 years they have been determined to destroy the government of the U S. Starve it, drown it...let the roads and bridges collapse, sneer and belittle those that need help or simple medical care. Attack education through dumbing down and exploiting every possible fear of the "other." They have championed the greedy and the super-rich. Is it too late?
Is there no other way now but to let them succeed? Or, should someone finally standup against this and fight back?
4
Yes, by Nancy saying NO immediately there really wasn’t any reason to continue talking.
3
They’re just trying to change the dialog. They know what’s coming from the “investigation”.
1
Nancy Pelosi will go into history as the woman who prevented us from falling into a de facto dictatorship, after managing to get the first healthcare reform bill in decades through Congress, bill that is saving almost half a million additional American lives a decade.
GO NANCY!!
10
Ah, yes - tactic number two from the "Donald Trump Big Book Of Really, Really SUPREMO Negotiation Tactics". That was "#2: When Someone Won't Do The Stupid Thing You Want, Stomp Out Of A Meeting With Them". That's preceded by Tactic #1: "Get All The Smart People Together And Fire Them So You Look Smarter", and is followed by Tactic #3: "Whine About Whatever".
That's it. There's only three. One per page. I think that the crayon illustrations by Donald Jr, Eric, and Ivanka (but not "the other one" - not Daddy's favorite!) give it a nice, homey touch - and they fill in a lot of the otherwise-white space on the pages, so it looks like there's more content.
Gosh - I hope Der Donald doesn't sue me for publicizing this...
3
Trump says "nothing else works" and that's why we need a wall?
Drones, digital and satellite surveillance, increased number of border patrol agents, more comprehensive immigration policies, new facilities for asylum seekers, additional judges for immigration-related matters...
But "nothing else works" except for a 4th-century solution, that has already proven ineffective both here and in Israel?
Good grief.
15
@dr j
Actually it has been extremely effective in Israel.
I am amazed this has lasted this long. The Legislative branch of our government does not work for the Executive branch. Vote on a bill in both chambers if you pass it send it to the President. If he signs great, if he vetos great and if he lets it sit great it passes. This pretending that you can't do anything is the most cowardly action of all. The Senate has enough votes to overide a veto so letting the country suffer is inexcuseable.
5
No bill will pass the Senate because the Republicans there do Trump’s bidding. Are you paying attention?
I'm not going to invite Chuck and Nancy to my birthday party. So there!!!
3
Trump is acting like a dictator. He should move to another country if he wants to "govern" like that. We don't do that here.
4
Sorry to ask, but can someone explain why this wall wasn’t approved and dealt with when the GOP controlled both chambers? They had 2 years, why couldn’t they do it? And now they have a shut down?
8
Question:
Trump has had a majority in both houses of Congress since he took office in January of 2017...
...who did he blame for not getting funding for his wall up until now?
7
In the campaign Trump said he knew "many, many words."
Guess he never learned "compromise." The feckless GOP members of Congress blame everyone but the big baby in the White House.
4
I heard this wall is actually Mexico's responsibility? This shouldn't be a problem.
8
This came after he had threatened to hold his breath until he turned blue. Speaker Nancy Pelosi was heard to reply, "Just a little bit longer please Donald. Just a little bit longer."
5
Trump slammed his hand on a table and walked out because a woman told him no.
6
As the GOP's beloved go-to analogy guy Ronald Regan so succinctly stated: 'Tear down this wall . . . '
Substitute Gorbachev for Trump, and substitute Germany for America. Tear down the wall, or tear down the American Government. Which choice does anyone think Putin supports?
3
trump and his GOP followers are a bunch a cry babies, somebody please give them all a crying towel. they had two years of having all three branches of government under there control, and got nothing done. how many time did they actually try to pass any spending bill will a substantial amount of funds for there "sad" wall, none that I can recall. sure there were talks that failed, but still no real attempt to try and push something thru. why weren't they already trying to declare a Emergency Crisis before now? lets see could it be that its now two years away from the next presidential election and like Graham said, no wall no trump re-election hopes. not that I believe he could be elected again even we built a dozen walls. The Democrats now have control of the House and they need to keep standing up to trump and his enablers. trump's storming out today is just more proof he is unfit, unqualified, not a negotiator, and not mentally stable enough to handle the pressures. he tweets show that each day. not one penny for his wall. trump and friends own this shut down, let them explain to those federal employees on Friday why they aren't getting a pay check.
5
“...a total waste of time....”. Meanwhile, he has no empathy for the millions of lives being negatively impacted by his self serving policy.
3
Down South, we say the kid "pitched a fit". I think that's what happened here too.
4
Manbaby Trump is not master of the deal. He's only familiar with "asymmetric warfare" and mad-dogging opponents when he holds all the cards. Welcome to the real world where power is shared.
Oh wait, narcissists can't share.
Nevermind.
6
@Melanie.
Well said!
Trump slamming his hand on the table in anger when the Democrats wouldn't agree to give him the money he was demanding shows an utter lack of fistal responsibility on his part.
3
Donald. Try holding your breath. For like 12-15 minutes.
I'm SURE that will work.
Try it!
Please.
6
I wish I could have been a fly on the wall and seen the Donald behave like a three-year-old brat throwing a hissy fit and storming out of the room like a deranged manic. On the face of it quite funny if it were not so serious.
Let’s face it, Donald J. Trump’s uncontrolled, unhinged and utterly crazy conduct is not becoming of a President of the United States. More importantly it raises the question of whether this 72-year-old man is fit to hold the highest office in the land.
It’s high time that responsible republican lawmakers stop being blind to the danger posed by tantrum-Trump before he does even more serious damage. Plenty of warning signs have been there for all to see but been ignored to our peril.
5
Call Trump's ever increasing demand for wall funding what it is: extortion!
He is acting like a mob boss, not the leader of a free people.
5
I listened to Trump's address carefully. After stripping out the lies, inaccuracies, and misleading statements there was nothing left to support the notion that a border wall is needed or would be effective.
It is clear that either Trump has been substantially mislead on the facts, or he choses to ignore them and lie to the American people.
It is also clear that Trump's obsession with the wall has nothing to do with national security or a humanitarian crisis, but is a product of his vanity and his need to placate the right-wing racist crazies who make up his base.
Trump makes me ashamed to be an American.
6
It's so interesting to watch the subtle ways media shapes debates. So, how exactly does one "storm out" of a meeting. Threw furniture? Called names? Yelled and screams? Or did he just get up and walk out.
Slammed his hand? Or just he put them down with sound to emphasize that the meeting was over. This is extremely common form in the business world.
Look, don't get me wrong. I'm not a DT fan. But I have been paying close attention to the framing of things by the media. NYT has become almost as bad as Fox (almost).
2
“Put them down with sound”? You’re kidding, right?
Speaking as a Democrat, how about this way out: We give him $$ for his wall, and he resigns. Everyone's happy--including the Republicans in Congress.
3
Can we shut off the heat and electricity at The White House? Also, maybe the Secret Service can start calling in sick. Our current president will need to hire his own security guards for himself and his family. His limo drivers can refuse to exceed 5 miles per hour. And something can start to interfere with his phone and internet service so that there is no more tweeting.
6
Nothing has more incentive to get to its destination than a dead fish. Except maybe this guy with his wall, and probably for similar reasons related to rotting from the head.
2
As much as I long for the day when a decent adult occupies the White House, why did Pelosi answer that the Dems would not fund a wall? Isn't the point to stop the shutdown, then negotiate border security? Can't that subsequent negotiation include some "wall" money to pacify the toddler, perhaps in exchange for DACA?
Also, could trump's ridiculous threat to end FEMA support to California be part of his border negotiation tactics? For me, trump's reaction to the deadly California fires changed my opinion of him from merely amoral/incompetent/ignorant to evil.
Wall should be built, i.e., around Trump and it should be prison walls. Keeping so many out of hard working people from earring their paychecks is not criminal, but it does show Trump's indifference to 800,000 people. As well as labeling many immigrants seeking asylum as drug smuggling criminals. He is a disaster and the only way he will "Make American Great Again" is by resigning.
4
Pat Roberts and Jim Langford aren't exactly "moderates.” If he's losing them, he has a problem
1
"President Trump slammed his hand on a table and stormed out of a White House meeting with congressional leaders>"
I am wondering if Ivanka who claims to serve this country could intervene and let her father know how insane is his behavior. Trump may think that he is the "First Secretary in Soviet Union" and is allowed, like Nikita Khrushchev, to do "shoe-banging".
2
Now that we all know exactly how this whole "wall thing" came about - as a mnemonic device at these hangar rallies - it's hard to believe Republicans are still hanging on to the idea. If they had any real sense they'd throw up their hands and say, never mind. Elect a clown, expect a circus. "And oh what heights we'll hit, on with the show this is it..."
4
In leaving the room, he is foreshadowing self removal. In his mental illness, he projects everything. If you only had Stephen Miller to cozy up with, wouldn't you do the same?
3
This is what happens when a toddler is in elected.
5
This President is missing the point of the argument he wants the American public to buy. Humanitarian and Security Crisis is caused not by the Need for HIS WALL but by the Shutdown of Government he ordered. This could not make Putin and others more happy. To destroy the very nature of the American Governmental institutions. One particular case is the role of Home Land Security and especially the Coast Grade ( https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/u-coast-guard-vs-wall-barry-bainton ) To ask for $5.6 Billion for a Wall when the Coast Guard is asking for $11.65 Billion to do the job for all 88,000 miles of Coastline vs approximately 2500 mile of WALL may or may not do. This is a BUSINESS MAN? The Art of this Deal is a crime.
3
I think it's time to build a wall around Trump, made out of cement or steel, whichever he likes best.
5
Hold firm. He has always been used to people giving in to his tantrums.
5
Trump had to rush out to watch Fox News to find out what he should do next.
7
Spineless, ineffective GOP senators. Thank you Pelosi. You own this trump.
6
For a “master negotiator,” Trump forgot a critical factor of negotiation: negotiating.
5
If I acted like that, my mother would wash my mouth out with soap and make me sit in the corner. Temper tantrums from a 70 year old man. What can we do with a man who acts like a two year old?
Each day this country goes further and further down the rabbit hole, and real people are suffering. Let take away his fortune and see how he adjusts.......
2
Why does trump ALWAYS live DOWN to my every expectation?
4
I don’t understand. Why doesn’t he just tell Chuck and Nancy, « you’re fired ! », and then they bring out some new contestants ???
:-)
4
Pelosi gave the correct response: "NO"
This is how one needs to handle babies when they throw a tantrum. There is no point in talking to individual-1, a well documented pathological liar and welsher, ever.
The single biggest security risk today is individual-1 himself.
McConnell a very close second. He could simply hold a vote on the bills passed to him from the house, thus immediately end the shutdown. Let the baby go scream and whine in a corner somewhere.
The rest of the GOP senators are all running a very close third. They could boot McConnell out, and place in somebody, anybody who actually cares about America.
5
Revenge is sweet.
The man to whom no one dared to say No, must now hear No.
He can't accept that this is the new relationship he will have to endure for at least two years.
Well, if nothing more is accomplished, at least he will be daily stretched thinner and thinner, his nerves fraying in real time, his gargantuan bulk quivering with rage.
That, surely, is nice.
Meanwhile, the government shutdown will continue until the entire country is brought to its knees.
Stay tuned for your daily temper tantrum .
This from the bozo who publicly said that he would own the shutdown.
Denial in action.
3
It’s time for child Trump to understand the hard way that lies, corruption and power abuse are NOT tolerated.
1
Trump is a perfect example of what happens to someone who has always had his own way, and now finds himself thwarted by his adversaries, one of whom is a 78 year old female named Nancy Pelosi who is, as we are seeing, one brilliant and tough negotiator. Trump has finally met his match in someone who is not intimidated by his bullying ways. That it is a woman must be driving this pathetic excuse for a man wild.
7
Under no circumstances should we give Trump a cent for a useless wall will serve no other purpose than to glorify racism in the USA.
Let Trump collapse under the weight and consequences of the collateral damage his causing to federal employees and others affected by his attempts to blackmail Congress over a wall that is nothing more than a monument to him and his racist followers.
3
Party over Country as usual for the Republicans.
3
He's mad Democrats won't bail him out for breaking his promise that Americans wouldn't have to pay for a wall, while he's offering absolutely nothing in return. He just doesn't want to admit he lied, although everyone knows it (other than his hapless base).
The reason he's offering nothing in return is his fundamentally childish nature that if he "gives" anything, he will fill like he won't have "won."
Yet another reason he's been unfit from the day he announced his candidacy; he's unfit now and always will be. He will never be a real president.
3
There is ever reason to believe that Trump will be indicted and successfully prosecuted for felony crimes, ranging from Obstruction, Conspiracy, Campaign Finance, and Racketeering (RICO).
McConnell and the rest of the Republican enablers....here’s a newsflash. We all know Trump is a crook.
Do you believe all will be forgiven when unimpeachable, collaborated EVIDENCE of Trump’s crimes enters the public domain?
Shutting down our government... putting our democracy in harm’s way,
Your role in this is clear. It will neither be forgiven or forgotten.
4
Why are the Democrats continuing to have "meetings" with this dumpster fire?
Donald Trump is not going to get one-red-cent for his "wall" - PERIOD.
So, stop having meetings already, and wait for the "master negotiator" to realize he's got nothing to negotiate with.
5
Art of the deal chapter 6. Don't be afraid to walk away. The democrats will give Trump his wall or their constituents will not get paid. Full stop. Trump won. The wall was on the ballot. Keep it shut. American lives more important than a paycheck.
1
@Steve
Then enact Gun control. Save more lives quicker, faster. If it's lives we are really talking about.
Don’t ever, ever forget what Trump “won.” It was a victory based on an obscure and racist voting system that allows a candidate with fewer votes than another candidate to win the office. Donald Trump did not win the votes of the majority of voters.
What do you all expect from a narcissistic POTUS who isn't interested in governing anyway? He is only interested in pandering to his base for a re-election bid by his lame campaign promise. He's forgetting the millions that are suffering now and frankly, doesn't care. Does he think they will forget this stunt in 2020? Mr. President, how about setting the record straight, that you ve got zero interest in US other than saving face. VP Pence, another major dissappointment. Hard to believe this debacle continues.
3
It’s no wonder why there are close to 1200 responses to this article. This is the guy who wrote “The Art of the Deal”. Despite his blustering in the book, in spite of his childish behavior today, and with regard to his fear-mongering last night in his prime-time address to the nation, this man doesn’t have a clue about government’s inner-workings or the political skills needed to navigate the stormy waters that he, himself, has created.
I get it that Senator McConnell is his guy in the Senate. What I don’t understand is the pure arrogance and narrow mindedness Trump demonstrates in his actions and unwillingness to read the handwriting on the wall. His “guy” is blindly following the “leadership” (or lack thereof) and may find himself victimized by not recognizing that Democrats and the public don’t appreciate or support his position regarding the wall.
Trump’s campaign promise to make Mexico pay for the wall was pure theater and braggadocio; that his followers believed him, and perhaps still do even though that statement has been sidelined, is a testament to the knowledge or lack of wisdom on the part of those voters. Trump is a liar. He’s a bully. He’s lived up to his true character, a childish playground participant who gets mad, takes his ball and storms away. Hopefully we can survive the next two years, but even more so putting the government back to work and resolving differences in a pure cooperative way.
1
This isn't just about Trump, it's also about the Democrats not supporting the wall. What is their suggestion to stop the influx of illegal immigrants? If they're going to stop the influx, then perhaps there's a solution. If they're not going to stop the influx of illegal aliens, then they're just being hypocritical and abusive. Even President Obama wanted to stop that influx, unsuccessfully.
2
@Nick
Their new position is that they very idea immigration law enforcement is racist and morally illegitimate.
I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Has everyone forgotten?
2
Wow, the president venting via twitter. This man has human interaction issues.
Trump can storm out and accuse the other guys of not negotiating. As for me, I'm going to hold my breath and kick my feet until he's out of office.
2
This erratic and irresponsible President must stop conflating the ridiculous 'border wall' (which he will not even define in any consistent way or propose an actual plan and specs for.) with the grotesque penalizing of federal workers, contractors, and all who do business with said hundreds of thousands of people, by this appalling government shut down. If Trump has such awe and regard for ICE and the Border Patrol staff how can he deny them their salaries? Or the Coast Guard, or the other law enforcement personnel on the Federal payroll who keep our nation 'safe'. This is beyond banana republic. It is atrocious and a total abrogation of reason and decency. Shame on you Destructive-Donald. If you hate the government so much please go back to building hotels in Moscow and starring on TV reality shows. That is about your appropriate level. Certainly being President is not.
4
By all accounts, the $5 billion weil buy 250 miles, far short of DHS delcared coverage costing well over $25 billion. If tis is the national emergency the POTUS has delcared, his demands keeping the gov't closed is just his down payment demands.
President Obama's biggest failing was his lack of recognition that there is no dealing with these Republicans. In 2008 McConnell staked out his ground - say no to everything Obama proposed - and for 8 years, they all did. Including a completely illegal refusal to even have hearings on Obama's Supreme Court nominee. And President Obama let them.
Its time the Democrats realized these are different times than any other in this country's history. As long as this completely unfit President stands for racist, white-nationalist policies ( which means as long as he is in office), the Republican "base" (what an appropriate word to describe them - base) will ALWAYS support him over what is good for the country.
Stand up to these traitors and fools. Never surrender.
7
@David Dolgin
There was absolutely nothing remotely illegal about the Senates refusal to hold hearings on Garland. No one with a shred of credibility has ever said so. No more than Nancy’s refusal to let Trump have what he wants. When Trump does it by executive action, the same people who cheered the unconstitutional DACA dictate, will cry foul.
WRONG. The Senate is Constitutionally required to advise and consent on Supreme Court nominees.
Wow. Too bad he didn't do a bit of Nikita Khruschev and bang his shoe on the table too....narcissists united. My way or hit the high way. He's getting desperate. But so are the thousands without paychecks. This will not end well for anyone involved.
3
It is awful that our federal employees have to suffer this baby in charge. I just hope that Nancy and the House will remain firm on the decision to deny this useless wall.
4
72 years of being a no-account brat who scammed and faked his way through life have finally caught up with Trump. His shtick doesn't work any more, and now he's throwing a hissy-fit.
Trump has secured his place in history as America's worst and most reviled president.
4
What this man knows about negotiating you can stick in your eye. Is it any wonder that he has been bankrupt 4 times.
"The Art of the Deal". Bah!
He is not the emperor of the USA and cannot rule by fiat.
Has the Republican senate lost all sense of decency?
3
like the definition of terrorist...or freedom fighter, how you see a thing often depends on where you stand. but at least in this stand off, holding hundreds of thousands of citizens hostage for partisan politics, we know who the "terrorist" is by his own admission: ...“I would be proud to shut down the government for border security,"--D.T.
2
Good call, Mr. Schumer and Ms. Pelosi.
This shutdown is a Trump shutdown and all unpaid government workers know this.
Keep exposing Trump as the coward that he is who, for 2 years and counting, is very afraid of the Mexican president that he cannot even pick up the phone and ask for the money.
4
It seems as if the border we really have to worry about is the president's borderline personality.
3
When are the GOP Congressional leaders taking charge to resolve the funding wall issue? Are they afraid of this irrational, childish faux President?
2
Oh what a surprise, trump throw a temper tantrum because Pelosi won't waste funds on wall .
3
Now if the President would just storm out of the Presidency because he is not getting his way, the country could resume being great again.
3
Temper tantrums are not a leadership style worthy of the Presidency. The constant lies, manufactured "crises", and the spineless Sentate GOP has left our nation in a compromised position. Less security for travel (TSA), no IRS to process taxes, 800,000 federal employees without paychecks... its shameless for this billionaire and his rich Senate buddies to claim they can "relate" with the citizens being impacted by this buffoonery. This abuse of power must end!
2
Ok so we are missing some very simple facts.
1 - Mitch’s job is to let the Senators vote.
2 - The president’s job is to decide to sign or veto.
If all I did at my job was posture I wouldn’t stay employed.
Hmmmm.....??
4
Let's hope he forgets the nuclear code when he really gets mad.
1
The tantrum no doubt choreographed by Ann and Rush.
5
When baby donald doesn’t get what he wants, he throws a tantrum. Time out needed.
2
Democrats, stick by your plan! Open the rest of the government and continue to negotiate the wall. Getting as much of the gov opened as possible is better than none. The President is having a snit at the expense of a lot of people.
It's beyond shameful.
2
Cut t.v. Privileges for the brat having temper tantrum and bullying others.
Make him stand in a corner with enforced quiet time.
3
"Give me what I want or I will take my toys and leave". Yep; definitely Nobel Prize negotiating . Ray Sipe
4
Small hands wants a big wall.
3
What a baby. So much for Art Of the Deal
1
I must have missed that chapter in Trump's book, "The Art of the Deal". Was there a section called, "When All Else Fails, Be a Baby"?
2
Two of the most-vulnerable republican senators in 2020 are Thom Tillis from North Carolina where Charlotte is a major hub for U.S. Air and David Perdue of Georgia, where Delta Airlines is headquartered in Atlanta.
Once the airports slow to a crawl it will be over.
3
The Democrats were “stunned” at Trump’s “temper tantrum”?
Where have they been these past two years?
3
Is Mexico going to pay for the cost of the government shutdown as well?
3
It’s terrible in more ways than we can count. The government workers suffer including TSA. Americans whose live were ruined, ruined by disasters don’t have FEMA contact. The families of government employees suffer, yes suffer, child care, food everything. Trump doesn’t care.Trump is the result of decades of administrations of both parties ignoring illegal immigration to the point where the illegals birther babies have changed the population. Legal immigration built the country not illegal. Illegal families are on welfare and kids in the schools, every baby born is on us. We are weighed down. Umm a Democrat but can see beyond the hip cool position of Colbert etc. Democrats haven’t stated the need stop illegal immigration. The idea we should have an open border Ofer angry frustrated caravans or others arrive and have entitlement is insane. Yes every poor country wants to come. Not okay. We need to deport illegals period and the facts are repeated and horrifying crimes are committed by many illegals. He’s inhumane and crazy and needs to go but he’s spot on about stopping illegal immigration. The one thing I’d change in the Constitution is the birther baby fact. The illegals here on CA are dragging around 2, 3 kids all on us. Where’s the hard line on illegals from Democrats. We will never have Democratic Socialism btw.
Bush tried. Obama tried. Your GOP Congress said no to sane immigration reform.
In his mind, Trump has elevated himself to be a dictator.
He touts his " executive " power and prowess like bad actor.
Did he or did he not say in front of the world: "I would be proud to shut down the government."
The cry baby is meowing, "Poor me. I'm all alone."
3
Hold fast, my Dems! If you give in to this, there is no end in sight & the suffering of our people & their bullying by this pretender president will both mushroom beyond belief. This must be the place where we insist, "No more." Remember how long the bus boycott took & everyday masses of people walked hours & miles to work.
4
You literally could not make this up. Life -political life- has veered into the realm of hallucinogenic fantasy.
1
Republican Senators are not willing to stand up to this man and ask to be heard and their point-of-view on issues to be considered. They will not gain respect from President Trump nor the American taxpayer until they are willing to do so. As a group, they are entirely "limp."
2
Hooboy I wish I could negotiate with the finesse and strategic acumen of this stable genius............
2
What a big baby. No wonder everyone stopped doing business with him.
DJT can't take it when a woman tells him, "no."
2
Republicans had two years of total control and they didn't manage to build a wall and now he is having this tantrum? This is just distraction from all of his crimes being on the front page. He should be in jail with his friends.
5
Why not. Wall on northern border - bet Canada would pay for it.
1
@Maxie
I believe that according to your President, the country on the south side of the wall pays for it.
Now, I don't want a wall between us, unless the Trump effect shows signs of spreading north, in that case, please build the wall as fast as possible :-)
1
If that wasn't some
spoiled-Manchild-foolishness, I've got a Wall to sell you--and & to tell you--that won't get built.
And now, Trump says he will withhold FEMA funds from California for wildfire recovery. The timing of this gesture is simply to amplify his petty grudge with Nancy Pelosi.
Hey Republicans!.........Please? A little help here. You see this, right?
3
The Dems are making a big mistake by not openly addressing the border security issue with relevant, concrete solutions. It is clearly a big thing with a large number of Americans. Instead of thinking of Trump's supporters as 'deplorables' and ignoring their concerns try thinking of them as fellow American citizens. Fight against Trump's wall with intelligent and relevant debate rather than just trying to make him look bad. He can do that himself. What exactly are the Dems proposing to do for border security? Some fencing, some hi-tech security, more funding for the 4 agencies responsible for border security, etc etc. Get to the facts man! Stop ignoring the large faction of fellow Americans who are concerned about border security and who see Trump as their only hope. Give them an alternative! Wake up Dems you are living in the same kind of bubble you accuse the alt right of living in.
238
@Frank T
Thanks for those comments. It is always best to make your case with good ideas. Another issue is that the border states do not agree with one another about this. It may be necessary to use different approaches across different stretches of the border. Texas and Arizona have the longest borders and have expressed the greatest interest in a wall. They will likely feel better if that is the form it takes. Given this is more about perception than reality, it would make sense to give states what they want. California has a very different take on the issue from those two and would prefer to go another way. New Mexico, which half of the US thinks is another country, is actually home to two of the NNSA labs (Los Alamos and Sandia) as well as White Sands, so they are not only on-board with ultra-hi-tech security stuff, they probably invented some of it. Similarly, California has NNSA labs and is quite invested in hi-tech.
6
@Frank T. There is plenty of information out there: Electronic surveillance and drones are 2 of them. Another help would be to appoint more judges to quickly review asylum claims.
10
The Democrats, as one of their first acts after taking over the House, passed a bill including an approval of $1.3B for border security. If this doesn’t count as something tangible, ask yourself “what would?” and ask yourself if you’re holding the group in charge of one half of one branch of government to the same standard as the group in charge of the Senate and Executive. The only element that Democrats disagree with is funding specifically toward a wall that Trump’s own Chief is Staff called “absurd and almost childish.” It seems like everyone agrees that the wall is a bad idea and only Trump’s ego stands in the way of our government getting back to paying workers to work rather than to sit at home.
24
Many long-time Democratic leaders previously supported a wall. A large segment near San Diego was built during Bill Clinton's term in office. I have yet to hear a good reason from existing Democratic leadership on why they no longer support construction of a border wall? It's not about money -- the Dems love spending money, especially on construction/infrastructure projects. It's all about politics and positioning. I don't like Trump, but I entirely support his position on this matter.
6
@Greg Beckstrom my dear that all has been built!! its a long border, do ya ken ? The real crime is trumps illegal treatment of refugee children and families - that is a crime!! and I mean legally - a crime!! we have to stop this lawless president, our system of rule by law is in balance! It is a crime, on the books, to separate chldren..It is a crime to not be ready to revie refugee status..the border crisis is Trump - he is the crises!!
4
infrastructure projects like fixing bridges which Republicans care nothing about. Do not compare this completely unnecessary wall to much needed fixes to roads and bridges. if the Republicans didn't spend all that money giving tax breaks to gazillionaires and Mexico paid for the wall like we were told it would be a different story.
2
Many of us don’t want to fund it. It is a big deal to shut down the government for any particular funding a president wants. In addition, support for a wall at a border entrance like SD is not equivalent to over a 1000 miles of wall in sparsely populated areas. Trump is forcing the shut down because he did not get what he wanted, he even took credit for it. So it’s all on him. The rest of us want the functioning government that we paid for.
2
Good. Embrace the tantrum! Like, scowl at the fractious child, then ignore him... and maybe he'll straighten up some once he realizes he's not getting the attention he wants.
Although I do have some family affected by the Fed shuttering, and I think what he's doing is completely reprehensible, perhaps the best idea now is to play the DJT creative destruction game (the creative part within his strategy best labeled "allegedly creative" of course). That is, let the guy have enough rope to hang himself. Pick your metaphor.
As in, it might well turn out that he's the best thing ever to happen to the more progressive, left-leaning among us -- in gubmint and otherwise. The silver lining, in other words: Maybe all of this nonsense is what leads to Left 2.0 at some point. Soon. Better and stronger than it has been.
3
I'm glad the GOP is supporting, endorsing, and abetting Donald Trump 100%. At least we all know where everyone stands.
One can only hope the United States of Amnesia remembers it on election night 2020. However, considering that the modern GOP still exists, and can get even a single vote, after the Reign of Error that was George W. Bush, I have little faith in that proposition.
4
The Democrats and Republicans HAD a deal. Trump scuttled it after listening to right-wing commentators and is now doubling-down in childish fashion.
Democrats are right to stay the course. We can't allow foaming-at-the-mouth pundits and intransigent man-babies to run the country any longer.
11
I would like to believe we might be at a tipping point in the Trump presidency. I would like to believe that "all" it will take is for a couple Republican senators to defect. Then a couple more. Then it becomes a landslide. Mitch McConnell is forced to bring a vote on opening the government with the wall. Republicans finally stand up to Trump, for the good of the country. And, freed from the curse of Trump, they work with Democrats, compromise, and do their job. I would like to believe this could actually happen.
7
Read the current New Yorker article on how Mark Burnett turned a bankrupt developer into a fictitious business mogul on "The Apprentice". It will make you appreciate you how we have elected ourselves a game show host, someone who really known nothing about either business or government. It's time for those with real experience governing to take over.
10
@Rod Stevens : Yes, a good companion for Burnett's article would be Tony Schwartz's comments on his regrets about writing "Art of the Deal" (like his Frontline interview). He donates his royalties to charities, such as the National Immigration Law Center. Imagine his surprise when Trump said "We need a president who wrote 'The Art of the Deal.'" Trump didn't even cooperate in the way a celebrity with a ghost writer usually would, so Schwartz had to do all the work. Now he feels like he created a monster.
Shutting down the government as a "negotiating" tool should never be rewarded. There's too much at stake. Today Fitch warned that it is considering downgrading the US government's credit rating. This has nothing to do with Trump's moronic wall, and everything to do with the impending expiration of the debt ceiling suspension. Cave to Trump's childish hostage-taking today and we'll be right back to another shutdown in March. However, instead of "merely" using federal workers and government functions as leverage, Trump will get to take the entire national economy hostage.
6
In what crazy fantasy land do Trump voters live in, where people don't have bills to pay? When family and friends start having to give money to those that Trump is bankrupting by this shutdown, it will become crystal clear to everyone in America the scale of damage that Trump has rendered to the fabric of our society.
7
Trump expected Speaker Pelosi to give in to all his demands. When she refused, he was disappointed and became too upset to continue negotiations. A man who becomes upset when he hears, "no". Sales people and negotiators must and do hear, "no", whenever they approach people who have different desires. Their job is to listen and to continue interacting, not to walk off in a huff. So how did Trump deal with, "no", as a businessman? Maybe he didn't make deals but had someone else make the deals?
5
"The meeting was a total waste of time." So sorry that Trump had to miss his TV programs, snack times and golf practice on the Democrats for nothing. Legislation just shouldn't take all his fun. So sorry that I just called my new Democratic representative from Orange County CA and asked her to stand firm on "no wall".
7
Trump has never negotiated in his whole life. This is the result.
7
When one intransigent person can shut down the Federal government, over-riding the will of the legislature, is America a dictatorship or a democracy?
5
Don’t cave Dems. Run tv adverts of Trump saying he own this, that he is proud to shut down the government.
Do not blink. If you do it’s over. If you don’t he’s finished. Let’s get this over with. Next week he will declare an emergency. Let him do so. Do not blink.
This is affecting me, my business is on hold, I was expecting an SBIR due on the 8th. Now when is anybody’s guess. Friends going to meetings with large government presence have had to cancel and throw away tickets. I’m on the board of a NOAA entity, all the work we were doing is on hold, and the contractors, most employees are just contractors, are without paychecks.
Don’t blink Dems, don’t blink. A dime today a dollar tomorrow.
10
President Trump tweeted that the meeting "with Chuck and Nancy, a total waste of time." Well, meeting with President Trump are also a total waste of time, how many times there were an agreement but President Trump renegaded on it, after listening to the pundits of FOX News and other right wing news shows. Therefore meetings should be held with Lou Dobbs, Carlson Tucker, Sean Hannity, Russ Limbaugh,...
3
Translation of any Republican senator: "He like got really angry. What could I do?"
1
$5.7bn is not even half a workday spend for the US Federal government. The holdup is not about money or "morals". It's about denying the President the ability to deliver on a promise that he was elected to fulfill. Everyone knows that.
The refusal to fund is childish spite at the expense of the people and the economy. Sad, silly and so typical of old school DC.
3
@Unfazed Everyone knows the $5.7 billion number is a canard. Once the Dems kowtowed to trump for that amount, we'd more or less be on the hook for the real cost of such a boondoggle, which anyone with a pencil and an envelope could rough out to be over 100 million--and that's without adding in a penny for maintenance, etc.
With or without the fence, the US needs to monitor and patrol the border. That's what the Dems have been saying all along: the wall is a vanity project on a par with the great pyramid. Not in America, thanks. We cannot humor this tinpot emperor, even if he thinks of himself as having been ordained to be our Sun King.
@Unfazed
Actually, the President was elected to build a wall that Mexico would pay for.
Once Donnie has the cheque from Mexico deposited in the bank, then Congress should vote on building the wall.
When I was a child and thru a temper tantrum,
my parents did not put up with it.
The now GOP relish in Trumps actions.
I knew spoiled children, most went to prison
or are dead from drugs.
This is an scary time we live in
Sincerely—kd
Poor Tantrump's deal making skills are lacking and won't get his way, so he storms out of the negotiations to cry.
I's surprising everyone else did not storm out on trump given the new Manafort revelations proving trump's illegitimacy as president to close OUR government to Putin's glee.
3
Gee and today I overheard Americans on an Amsterdam street referring to the US as the best country in the world. I must have misunderstood how “best” is defined.
2
@Jacques
Jacques, once they have travelled a bit, they'll realize how wrong they were.
The sad truth is that as long as Republicans are willing to stand behind this crazy individual there will be no reason to think that any solution will be reached. Let it run its course and see how that affects them in the long run. They really don't have anything to lose since they are fast approaching bottoming out in the polls. They can only go up at this point.
I agree that no office holder should bend to the will of a tyrant who refuses to act in the best interest of the nation. They should not give him a dollar for a "wall."
1
It's not Trump, but the entire Republican party that is the enemy of humanity at large
4
Trump is betting that the Democrats have hearts and will cave because they can't stand to see hard-working Americans not getting paid.
Trump has no heart, so it would not bother him if the 800,000 furloughed employees were all lying in front of the White House and starving to death.
Sadly, that is his strength. He doesn't give a d*mn about his fellow Americans.
17
Exactly why don’t you want border security. We have an uncompleted physical barrier now. Why not complete the physical barrier and use more technology to monitor the border? A physical barrier is like the door to you house or a wall around your gated community. Technology like drones is like a burglar alarm.
I just want to know if the wall just got 10 feet shorter.
12
@Bob Dodd ~
The Wall, just as all the weapons to tout and not use, or the best ever one-on-one "negotiations " over nuclear weapons and trade, and most everything else, strike me as macho, thumbs behind the suspenders bragging and superiority.
So, yes.
Republican senators act as if they do not care what damage they are doing with the shutdown. They are happy to be Trump's doormats.
24
I'm not sure throwing a tantrum is going to help. A president should behave like an adult, not a petulant boy. Maybe his daddy gave in, that doesn't mean Congress has to.
16
It's time to restore some semblance of order to the dysfunction that we call government. The Imperial Presidency is giving way to the Spoiled Brat Presidency. Government shutdowns as political tactics need to be outlawed. The tail is now wagging the dog. Whether the "base" likes it or not, we need to reorient our government to service of the common good and vote these people, the republican sycophants who willingly allow this nonsense to go on in their endless quest for power out at the expense of the majority and start repairing the damage they and this "president" is doing to the fabric of our society.
10
There are so many problems around the world and at home. Do we really have a soap opera for a government???
14
Good that Madam Speaker holds her ground. This is a constitutional test--give him nothing.
31
We know that Trump has lied about the height of his buildings. My modest proposal is that we build a small pile of dirt along the border and Trump can claim that it's a 30 foot wall.
14
Kind of like something else. Maybe that’s really what this is about. Nature can be cruel and affect people’s egos.
1
@Sue :
Good point! Trump isn't even clear on whether the wall, or at least part of it, has already been built or not. Surely, we could just tell him it's under construction, and he'll brag about how great it is until he's out of office one way or another.
1
Robert Gates once said “building a wall between Mexico and the U.S. is like putting a fence on two sides of your house to keep the dog in” Trump doesn’t have a dog so he doesn’t understand the concept.
15
The art of the deal as shown by "I am the most experienced negotiator etc etc etc" in full flight.
The species, in Darwinian terms is unfit for this function and could well suffer from lack of utility unless in a demagogic environment.
7
The House leadership is going to have to attempt, in conjunction with Senate Democrats, a multi-front approach if any of this can result in an end to the shutdown.
First, Pelosi and Schumer need to distance themselves from direct negotiation with Trump. The two sides are too far apart. Conversations right now should be conveyed through lieutenants and/or third parties on both sides who can quickly elevate proposals to the top. This can more readily lead to whatever it may be out there that will bring the two sides together.
Second, Pelosi on her end and Schumer on his end, should work with willing Republicans who can either publicly state their own misgivings (thereby bringing pressure on Senate leadership in particular) or who can assist with crafting positions at a lower level than can be elevated and, with some hope, accepted as a basis for progress.
None of this is possible if Trump stands stubbornly. But even stubborn positions can be broken down if enough men and women of good will on both sides are willing to consider and work out a path forward by which both sides can claim as something resembling their own small victory.
11
Guess he's running for president again. Has to get in before that new California primary takes effect. If his followers like him showing "them" who's boss. So much the better.
Guess his motto isn't "If you can't beat 'me, join 'em" is it.
Does anybody think it might be time to mount a new version of Pink Floyd's "The Wall" or at least the music? "Hey, Donald! Leave them kids alone!"
5
When my four kids misbehaved they got to sit in the naughty chair. One minute for every year of age. If they got up from the chair, the timer started over.
Someone needs to put Trump in the naughty chair.
14
Mueller must have just moved to a more proximate judicial location from “just outside the gate” to “hiding in the bushes”....
9
Donald Trump tweets, " I asked what is going to happen in 30 days if I quickly open things up, are you going to approve Border Security which includes a Wall or Steel Barrier? Nancy said, NO." What we have here in Nancy Pelosi is an honest politician. Thanks, Nancy.
28
My fellow Americans,
I just called both reps and both senators in my state. It took less than 2 minutes.
Make your voice heard. You can't complain that Congress is not heeding the voice of the people if you don't use it.
It is just as important even if you think your reps agree with you.
I personally am against $5.7B for a wall.
a live person picked up the phone after one ring at both Democratic house offices as well as Independent Senator Angus King's office. Republican Susan Collins' phone went to voicemail with no rings. Clearly the first 3 can be accepting more calls!! Does Collins voicemail mean her line is busy, or is she just not answering??
17
I sent my Democratic Congressman an email last night asking him to support the President and his efforts to improve border security and got an auto response thanking me for supporting ‘green energy’. Lol