If Democrats gave in to Trump now it would be like making a deal with a terrorist. Trump would know he could get away with a shut down whenever he wants his next boondoggle funded.
1
You are splitting hairs on the "encountered thousands of illegal immigrants trying to enter our country."
3
Remember that Trump was goaded into shutting down the government by talk radio hosts. This is a hard to believe moment in the stupidity of our nation. Our President listens to talk radio and Putin instead of his own advisers. This is psychotic. Trump has committed treason and needs to be removed from office.
Here is a link to the talk radio taunting Trump.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/22/this-is-tyranny-talk-radio-hosts-right-limbaugh-coulter-blamed-trumps-shutdown/
And, if we can remember all the way back in ancient history to July, here is Trump on July 16th in Helsinki stating his fealty to Putin, stating that he takes Putin's word over the FBI, the CIA, and NSA, his administration, the press, and our allies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcKcnxnvan4&feature=youtu.be
4
Your "taken in context" seem weak. I don't believe any DT says but ...
They are not misleading statements. They are lies. Come on Times call them what they are—LIES!
4
Dear NYT:
Your biased "fact check" underscores -- inadvertantly -- that most of what Trump said is accurate, despite your silly quibbles over "context." More fundamentally, your underlying assumptions and reasoning are often nonsensical:
For example, Trump accurately stated that Schumer and 25 other Senate Ds supported a "physical barrier" in the past. The fact that Trump also criticized this barrier as insufficient does not make his statement a lie.
Another: Stating that "a border wall would not address what experts see as the next, more deadly phase of the opioid epidemic: fentanyl" does not mean that Trump's actual proposal -- which includes new cops and sensors to detect drugs -- will not reduce the vast volumes of cheap Mexican heroin killing our citizens.
These NYT-created straw men and whataboutisms are spin, not analysis.
Finally , it seems you are holding Trump to a hyper technical -- almost crystalline -- level of factual lucidity, while giving Democrats all the happy slack. Consider this statement from a D leader:
“We are not paying a $5 billion ransom note for your medieval border wall.”
Employing a Times'-style fact check:
False: There were no high tech steel walls incorporating cameras, motion sensors and drones in medieval times. This is a lie.
4
This fact check only highlights the extent to which the Times can prevaricate and obfuscate when they feel it's morally required. In that sense it's very useful and relatively rare. It's the only place you'll find such an outline. If you want to read the times critically it's invaluable.
1
Republicans don't want immigration reform if it means acknowledging the humanity of brown and black people. George W. Bush tried to pass comprehensive immigration reform in 2007 and failed. The Republicans would not support their own president when he wanted to do something that had the smell of justice and tolerance to it. Jeff Sessions was a leader in killing the bill. The only immigration reform that Republicans would support would have to be based on ethnic cleansing. That's why they want a wall--a real symbol of exclusion.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration/senate-kills-bush-immigration-reform-bill-idUSN2742643820070629
1
If the context is as important as the Times is suggesting they may want to take a glance at the news outlets reporting. This article also parses the wording of his speech especially the parts dealing with data. The context added for ICE arrests adds nothing beyond a Times writer's thoughts on what constitutes a crime which precludes the entry into the US.
It's ridiculous to call this "fact checking." No need to check facts; he never uses facts.
2
I want to see a two- column summary for each of these crime categories showing how many crimes were committed by illegal aliens and how many crimes were committed by our own good citizens.
4
It is shocking that the man and his enablers face no consequences for his deceit and lies. He knows fully well that the media, except Fox, can call foul and do its diligence all it wants, but when the rubber meets the road, the flawed Electoral College system will put him back where he sits.
It is a pity that Electoral College has determined the fate of our country, our kids and grandkids in two recent elections but all we have done sadly so far is a big, fat nothin' to bury it; not one.
This sub-literate, so called President and the enabling Republicans will get reelected and will laugh all the way to the bank.
1
How does immigration "drive down jobs"? And what does "drive down jobs" even mean? I never read it or heard anyone say it before.
3
Thank you for this.
1
Re “The dueling speeches from opposite sides of Pennsylvania Avenue…”: This construction makes no sense. “Opposite sides” seems to make it sound as if the White House and the Capitol are across the street from each other, which of course they are not. And if the author meant “opposite *ends* of Pennsylvania Avenue,” that still wouldn’t work because Pennsylvania Avenue runs diagonally from the east end of Georgetown (29th Street N.W.) and across the Anacostia River to the District’s southeastern border, where it remains Pennsylvania Avenue (now also Maryland Route 4) all the way to Upper Marlboro.
Is saying over and over again "This needs context" or "this is misleading" really "fact checking?" That all seems more a matter of your or my opinion, not hard facts.
2
"How do you know when the donald is lying?"
Answer
"When his lips are moving."
5
I refused to watch anyone last night. Trump spews out lie after lie. It is insane so many people actually think a wall is a good idea. All it reminds me of is Berlin during the cold war. He has enough Border Agents, ICE, DEA, soldiers and god knows which other agencies to start a war. The scariest things are the internment camps with thousands of children in them, and we,the people of this great nation are not allowed to see them within it's fences. Former employees have already said how poorly they are treated. I think back to the late 19th Century, when my paternal grandparents immigrated from Vilna, the Russian Empire (now Vilnius, Lithuania) through Ellis Island with the clothes on their back and little bags of food or clothes. What if they had been treated this way? Of course, in 1947"The Ship That Launched a Nation", an unarmed ship, crammed with more than 4,500 Holocaust survivors, then refused homes anywhere else and finally been rammed by a British warship, limped into what is now the Port of Haifa, Israel. Just think of what they had endured in concentration camps by the Nazis, then had to endure even more; buy they did it. Trump reminds me of all the people who wouldn't let them dock; starving and some dying within sight of land. 99.5% of the people fleeing terror in their own countries today, and Trump wants to give them a swift kick in the pants out of here, or put in camp, cage, whatever you call it. He simply doesn't get it. Finally, most of the country does.
1
“Senator Chuck Schumer, who you will be hearing from later tonight, has repeatedly supported a physical barrier in the past, along with other Democrats.
This needs context.”
Actually no it doesn’t. It’s 100% true and the Times’ spin on it simply reveals its bias.
3
If this is a national emergency, why didn't the President declare one on his first day in office?
1
The wall is in Trump's mind is a true symbol but nothing else.
Making a long lasting symbol for separating brown skin from White skin.
A symbol for racists for future use.
I see in his words only this symbol, Nothing more or less than that.
His wall as a racism symbol is nothing to do for solutions of Immigration related problems.
3
Five billion dollars to satisfy trump's ego.
2
"Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, who ran unsuccessfully for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016, also made a public response to Mr. Trump, which was streamed live on social media platforms after Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Schumer concluded their remarks.
The move was reminiscent of how a fractious Republican Party responded to State of the Union addresses when Barack Obama was president: Republican leaders designated a formal response and Tea Party-aligned conservatives chose their own messengers to deliver a different rebuttal."
I like how you guys (the NYT or is it the DNC? Can't tell the difference any more) managed to use this as an opportunity to once again malign Bernie Sanders while at the same time not providing any information regarding what he said. Given that he was the runner up in the last Democratic nomination process and a leading contender for the 2020 nomination it is relevant for your readers to know where he stands. Instead, you used this as an opportunity to remind readers of the dangers of straying from the establishment. Thanks for this big fail NYT.
2
More blah, blah, blah from both sides. On issues, i give the nod to the Democrats. The American Gothic rebuttal was hard to watch, but was informed and thoughtful. The donald, was stiff and unemotional as he sought to pitch the public... not done well. I suspect that everyone is still dug in behind their lines on this one.
I look forward to the trump talking heads and their media antagonists to sort this out today.
All in all, a failed attempt by a failing President
1
Donald J Trump wants to be America's dictator.
Arbitrary power, States of National Emergency, false crises, and the military power are historically devices by which tyrants and dictators have used imposed their will upon nations.
Trump has manufactured this "crisis" by lies and misrepresentation since his presidential campaign by scapegoating, threats, slurs, and inciting violence against anyone, including members for the press, who did not cheer. ---"Throw em out."; "enemy of the American People!"
In office it's been the same. He cannot take advice of anyone except himself and only communicates through stridency, spin, and lies.
Can you imagine the President of the United States suggesting, even SUPPOSEDLY in jest that the United States should have a President for life and implying by saying so that he should hold office for life like Putin and the Xi, both dictators whom he openly admires?
Yet that is exactly what he said during impromptu remarks on the Communist Chinese Party's action of installing Xi Jinping for life-- "Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day..." [Followed by laughter and hoots and shouts of approval...] Trump then relied on his "Friends" to say it was a joke.
However, Donald J Trump's recent faint glow of sympathy while threatening a military state of emergency is neither funny nor a joke.
Openly petulant, uncooperative, tyrannical, and unwise he desires the power to impose his will.
The American people should shut Donald J Trump down.
1
He weakly channeled Ted Baxter from the Mary Tyler Moore Show--except with 1/3 the charisma, 1/3 the wit, twice as vapid.
1
Trump's tactics: See some examples below ...
Hold hundreds of thousands of innocents hostage
Isolate children from their families
Endorse and promote violence against "others" including the free press
Threaten national emergency to achieve unwarranted goals
Destroy public monuments like our national parks
Propose invading other countries to achieve unsanctioned activities
ISIS tactics: See some examples above ...
This shutdown shows how Trump is truly a weak President. He AGREED to a deal crafted by both the Senate and the House under the control of Republicans. Then, a few key conservative talk radio/TV people (Limbaugh, Coulter and Ingraham) complained and criticized and scared Trump so he BROKE his agreement and refused to sign.
What a weak President - getting pushed around by any media, let alone the conservative media. If he can't face down media that is generally friendly to him, can he be trusted to face down world leaders?
If he is too weak to withstand the criticism of a few members of the media, can anyone still think he is a tough guy and able to handle the job of President?
I just wonder what else Limbaugh, Coulter and Ingraham will tell him to do?
What's next - is Putin going to tell him how to tie his shoelaces?
The guy is weak. It is pathetic he is POTUS and such a weakling.
A comprehensive immigration reform plan was passed by an overwhelming, bipartisan majority in the Senate twice - once in 2006 during the Bush administration; and again in 2013, during the Obama administration.
Both bills included reasonable measures to further 'secure the borders.' Both addressed a path forward for those in the country 'illegally' and measures to minimize the number of 'illegal' immigrants entering and staying in the country in the future.
Twice the obstructionist, extremist right-wing Republicans in the House killed the bill.
The claim that we now face a "national emergency" because prior administrations have allowed "open borders" is utter nonsense. No, it's worse - it's a lie. The claim that building a stupid wall at the southern border will increase national security or in any way resolve our broken immigration system is also worse than utter nonsense - it's a lie.
Even right-wing advocates of severe restrictions on immigration and the strictest enforcement actions against "illegal" immigrants -- people like Mark Krikorian -- they know it's a lie.
"Build the Wall" is t-shirt, baseball cap and bumper sticker stuff. It's a stunt. And Trump, the master of stunts and of squandering other peoples' money on them, now has access to the biggest pot of other peoples' money on earth - the U.S. Treasury that holds our tax dollars. He's like a kid in a candy store. He wants $5.7 billion now and more later for his "wall" -- it's just another Trump Taj Mahal.
With campaign donation commercials around the speech. How crass.
Tens, if not hundreds, of millions of us Born in the USA owe are citizenship to immigrants from virtually all five habitable continents -- but mainly Europe, Africa, and Asia. But the roots of anti-immigrant sentiment in this Nation harken back to our Founding Fathers desire to not "import" Europe into their New World. Ben Franklin wrote, "“Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.” (Ref. Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries, etc., B. Franklin, 1751
Not much has changed since Mr. Franklin's 1751, it would seem. He was lamenting the influx of Germans into Colonies. I don't know about you, but looking in a mirror ... I call myself a Liberal, but haven't had a Black or Brown "friend" to dinner for at least 20 years. Let's be honest, we Whites sure like our country White. When's the last time you broke bread with a brown-skinned acquaintance in your own home. I didn't think so.
I can now see what the Times considers misleading, and it is misleading. Differences in interpretation and opinion do not need fact checking. You may disagree, but that does not rise to incorrect information posing as fact. Does something need context, in the Times' opinion? Ok, provide it, but provide it fully. Also, start providing the context for your points of view, too. The Times selects its facts, just like everyone else, and it is not all that motivated to dilute the message by adding inconvenient context, either. If shaping context is tantamount to intentional lying, then I can see why Trump supporters call MSM fake news, because MSM is neglects full reporting and manipulates context to fit certain narratives regularly.
2
Trump is a serial liar and D-Lister Fraud. And he offered no suggestions as to comprehensive border control: expanded patrol staff, backup to patrol squads, repair crews, detention centers, cameras, more judges and courts, prosecutions of illegal hiring (including his companies and himself), work visas, GETTING AMERICANS TO STOP USING ILLEGAL DRUGS, or making them legal so if they want to self-destruct they have the freedom to do so at low cost.
Is there any truth to the report that in 2006 26 Democrats voted to fund a similar wall that Trump now wants funded? Also in 2013 that 54 Democrats (including Chuck Schumer, Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama) voted in favour of funding 700 miles of the border with Mexico?
“In November, the agency... apprehended 51,856 people trying to cross the border illegally. That’s about 1,700 per day.”
This seems insanely high to me. Even though I fully reject Trump and his wall, I wonder if greater priority should really be given to this.
Still, the press goes down the rabbit holes Trump begins for them.
Still, people look for when he is telling the truth or tellinglies. It is ridiculous to look at the situation we are in by highlighting various statements from his continuous stream of consciousness rants. Until people begin to look at HOW he is behaving and how he thinks, in short, how he presents himself as a defensive, short-tempered, terrified child who is over his head, we will get nowhere. He is telling us every day who he is and how he will act if everyone will just take a step back and see the forest from the trees. We are in real trouble here.
NY Times, it's time to man up and call the twisted, tortured product of this con man, Donald Trump, what it is, a pack of lies.
These assertions of untruths don't need "context" in your words. That context has already been provided , often repeatedly, by Fact Checkers like the Post's Glenn Kessler, ... who have pointed out they are untrue.
Mr. Kessler had to develop a new standard to apply to Trump's lying behavior, the "bottomless Pinocchios"
It's not a mere misstatement or exaggeration if the true "context" is, Donald Trump has repeatedly and deliberately re-stated falsehoods, and that repetition is confirmed as such by Fact Checkers.
After you grant Trump one Mulligan, it's important to label the repetition of that same misleading statement (statements lacking 'context', in your words) a lie.
Calling those deliberate lies out is the only way to address a person, like Trump, who is using lying as an instrument of political control.
Man up.
Trump has lost any chance of reelection. He's 3 feet in the grave. He needs to dream big if he wants to leave a legacy other than that of a one-term president who tweeted his own death.
Now that RMS Trump has hit the iceberg, Republicans and Democrats can go back to destroying America's lower working-class as they flood the marketplace with imported labor which directly competes for affordable housing and jobs.
Our president lied to us on national TV. Easily proveable, blatant lies to further his political agenda and justify his using the operation of our democratic government as a bargaining chip. Why this fact is not the number one blaring headline in every paper in our country is beyond me.
On November 1, 2018 Trump for once said something which is absolutely true. This is what he said:
'When I can, I tell the truth'.
He has to make an effort to tell the truth but lying comes naturally to him!
You should also do a "relevance check." Regardless of whether the facts regarding opioid overdoses, etc. are accurate . . . they have nothing do to do with a border wall.
Even if the wall, or fence is of even the smallest benefit, it would be a far better investment than the trillions the American government has burned through in the foolish invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
No fact check on Trump’s statement that the Democrats insisted that the wall be steel rather than concrete?
If last night was an audition for the Chuck and Nancy Show, it is likely to close before it opens. What a dead-in-the-water belly flop that was.
1
If trump wants to convince us that we need his horrible wall, he needs better speech writers, reading lessons, and, of course, the truth would be nice for a change.
“If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party,” Sen. Graham said.
So Lindsay is Robert E. Lee? He knows it's a dying cause, but he wants to remain loyal to the Old South.
Better be careful. It might well be the end of the Republican Party. It's already all but moribund.
I think we should get all the Trump base to pay for the wall among themselves. If they want to fall for a con they can pay without dragging the rest of us with them. They can always submit a claim to the Mexican government, who I hear are eventually going to pay for the wall - right??
Interesting - the only "FALSE" hit was a matter of opinion. OK, context is needed; but (at least to me and everyone else I've talked to) this simply means he is essentially correct. WE understand the context - perhaps Democrats do not.
And, not real comments (I could find - maybe I missed them) on fact check Democratic response. The most telling thing is that the Democratic response was already to go with rhetoric, and their response to facts made them look, well, silly.
2
The fact that President Trump's inaccurate statements made in his address last night is front page news is ridiculous.
It has practically become a tradition of US politics, Republicans and Democrats alike, to misrepresent the facts and tell white and other lies to the American public. I think we have all come to expect it, even assume nothing we hear from our President, Senators and Congressmen has not one way or another been manipulated and prettied up before being present to us.
Its our fault. Most of us don't want to hear the truth. We apparently don't value it. Trump may be more bombastic and less couth that the others, but he really is no different , not in this regard.
1
If you want to talk about the opioid epidemic then you should talk about Oxycontin and Purdue marketing to physicians. Now that is a true crisis. Thousands of Americans die every year from drug overdosing which includes narcotics such as oxycontin.
Any trade deal the GOP makes will not help the poor and middle class. Businesses will maintain their profits margins or increase them.
"Context needed" for claiming millions are hurt by the shutdown? Really? It's not just federal employees being hurt -- it's people whose livelihood depends on federal parks, museums, etc. being open, it's people needing federal services that aren't currently available, it's contractors to the federal government and their employees (who won't get retroactive pay, unlike federal employees). So, it's not just the 800,000 federal workers you mention, or even just them and their dependents.
Well said Bill. What this boils down to for me - the President is holding 800,000 hostages (and indirectly, millions) as leverage to fulfill a phony campaign promise. That’s it.
And in addition to the suffering of these unwilling hostages, we are no closer to a comprehensive approach to immigration reform. In Trump’s twisted, tiny mind, building the wall solves all of our immigration problems at the southern border. That’s plainly not true.
Can we ever end the long experiment where we attempt to diminish drug use by controlling supply?
Will we ever consider that demand for drugs will overcome walls, laws, armies, sentences, prohibitions?
Perhaps we could run a new experiment, maybe in Senator McConnell’s home state,where his constituents die at an astounding rate from drug use. Address root causes and conditions, evaluate changes in behavior?
Why not invest $5,600,000,000.00/50 states=$112,000,000 ?
Or prorate by population?
This problem isn’t solved by soldiers, weapons, surveillance and walls!
Regardless of the accuracy of the "facts," BLOTUS's speech last night was poorly prpeared, poorly written, and poorly delivered. His very limited life experience has taught him that all he needs to do is say "do it" and the it (whatever it is) gets done. Democracy doesn't work that way. To convince the majority of the American people requires communication and advocacy skills and a degree of integrity, none of which BLOTUS possesses. I reluctantly watched the speech last night and was hoping to see and hear a much more organzied and cogent explanation and case for the "wall." As of right now, no one knows exactly what the "wall" is, where it is to be located, and how much it will cost. He asks for $5.6 billion and does not explain its use or its allocation. In effect he is saying, give me the money and trust me to use it appropriately. This from a man who has proven he is unable to identify or speak the truth about anything. If he wants the support of the majority of the American people, he needs to tell us with precision and clarity exactly what he wants, why he wants it, and how it will be used.
Regarding the context for Democratic claims of millions - There are people counting on their food stamps and tax refunds who are also being affected, in addition to federal workers and their families.
Not to mention it makes our nation look like a joke and deprives us all of the efficiency we are all paying for via taxes.
We don't deserve this and this is not acceptable. I'd like to outlaw these shutdowns, and fine every above-the-line government member involved one week of pay per day of shutdown. See how often these national humiliations occur then.
One thing for certain, Trump is alienating 800,000 voters who likely won't be voting for him in 2020.
How many people have been harmed or killed by illegal immigrants vs people murdered by gunfire?
I don't know the numbers, but I don't think any "humanitarian" would suggest that illegal immigrants present a greater harm than illegal use of guns.
Why did congress create the E-Varify system? Why did congress pass laws that make it illegal to use false SS numbers to use its banking system? Why does the IRS issue ID numbers to people that are ineligible to earn income in America? Until the government enforces the laws, nothing will change. Lincoln said the best way to change a bad law was to strictly enforce it. It’s time to act.
Senator McConnell is the true villain here, no one individual should be able to BLOCK the Senate vote on a bill, the Senate leader should act to coordinate and manage the proceedings to keep them moving. Sen. Mitch is not a 'Leader' in the democratic sense, he is a despot only beholden to the autocratic POTUS.
The Senate needs to amend their senseless and undemocratic rules, go back to Regular Order and not be able to suspend same on partisan grounds. If the Senate were to vote on the House funding bill package (which was essentially the prior Senate bill) it would pass, likely with a veto-proof margin. END of Shutdown, reflecting the will of the Congress, and the will of the majority of Americans.
The GOP Senate and Mitch McConnell are the true enemies here, if a less than veto-proof vote were the result then POTUS would resume that mantle.
Federal mandated EVerify with large penalties attached will stop employers from hiring illegal persons. The millions of people who have overstayed their visas will have to leave and the new immigrants will not be hired eliminating the incentives to come to or stay here illegally.
1
Any situation that goes on long enough will cease to be a "crisis" and simply become the new "normal."
The fact that the situation at our southern border hasn't changed in years, except for slight variations from year to year, doesn't mean it's not a crisis or that it is acceptable. It just means that it hasn't changed and, therefore, people now see it as the status quo.
Trump is trying to change this mindset. He is saying that this has gone on long enough and it's high time we fix it. And, he's absolutely right.
How we do this is the matter that is up for debate. But, the debate has to recognize that we aren't trying to make the best of the situation as it currently exists, but rather that we're trying to create a new situation in which the laws are enforced and people coming to our country do so legally.
And, that those who come here illegally do not reap benefits from their flaunting of our laws.
Yesterday, Mayor DiBlasio violated every rule of common sense by stating that New York City will now provide health care to every illegal alien residing in the city. He is going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to provide a service to people who live here in violation of the law, while requiring that those here legally, who have jobs and contribute to society, have to pay out of their own pockets.
This is disgusting and it must change. Trump is trying to change it. Good for him.
2
This was another example of Trump lying because he can. Maybe HE believes what he's saying but there are any number of us who don't. In the end HE is responsible for the government shut down. HE is responsible for creating fake fears about immigrants as a whole. HE is the one who has decided to hold federal employee salaries hostage to a campaign promise he cannot keep (and should not be trying to keep either). There are better ways to control the border and to help people who want to seek asylum here.
We can let them in and give them a chance to build new lives. We can stop deporting immigrants who have committed minor crimes. And once a person is a naturalized citizen we should not be stripping them of it and deporting them unless the reasons are similar to what war criminals have done.
The one thing that was not mentioned is penalizing employers who constantly hire illegal immigrants. As a citizen I have to provide proof that I am allowed to work here. We're required to present a birth certificate, a license, a form of government photo id, a passport. We rail against national ids but perhaps having one would end some of the illegal immigration problems we have.
But again, this is Trump's shutdown. If the GOP likes supporting him at any cost that's fine. The cost for them will come due when it's time to vote.
10
@hen3ry: National ID registries are effective deterrents to illegal immigration. Every country that successfully manages immigration relies on them.
1
The millions of Americans who are hurt include those who depend upon government services, not only those who get government paychecks. If, for instance, EPA can no longer monitor water quality or oversee landfills, that has potential to hurt many Americans beyond even the shutdown period.
5
I think the majority of Americans know that if the wall had been that important it would have been done when Republicans had all of the power. The fact is they didn't want to get blamed for it.
My question is, what does Trump have on Lindsey Graham? Senator Graham used to criticize Trump, but now he is his pet bulldog. What happened?
20
@TeddiPeople like Trump have corrupt entourages because Trump hooks them with bait.
If Trump was as smart as he consistently reminds us that he is, then Trump and a Republican controlled Congress's very first priority would have been a massive infrastructure plan that would have spurred the economy and cemented his self proclaimed status as the best negotiator and best developer. The much needed repairing and or building of new roads, tunnels, bridges, airports and railway lines across the US would have benefited all Americans, not just Trump's and the Republican party's dwindling base. An infrastructure plan would have also put the Democrats in a difficult position to say "no" to new infrastructure and rightly labeled the Democrats as obstructionist.
In his first two years Trump had the opportunity to build a relationship, a consensus, something to unify, to heal a very divided and a very sick nation. Instead Trump succumbed to his few "very best people" like the accomplished Stephen Miller and right wing entertainers Hannity/Coulter for answers. Trump's answer to the lack of wall funding is to shut down government agencies while having members of his administration, including his VP and Press Secretary, use the media to spread false and misleading data about border security.
History has shown what can happen to leaders of nations and their enablers who have gained and held power through repeated lies and falsehoods. They either find themselves surrounded by walls of concrete and steel or they find themselves standing in front of a wall.
One term.
18
@Pen Vs. Sword: Everything Trump does is consistent with breaking up the US just as the US broke up the USSR.
Two years is more than enough to see what kind of President Trump is. The only defense would be: he does not know he does not know. But I doubt it. He has left a lot of evidence of his behavior in many aspects of his life. Trump's University, Trump's Foundation, casino bankruptcies, not paying to contractors, cheating on taxes, and on and on, not to mention his constant lies. How can anyone listens to what he says?
10
The 30 foot wall is overpriced and would be built by illegals working for peanuts... but just in case buy stock in this company or buy ladders to rent out. The Trump family already has so don't be the last on your block to make a fast buck.
https://www.homedepot.com/tool-truck-rental/Fiberglass-Extension-Ladder-32/D6232-2/index.html
3
When FOX News criticizes the Presidents direction, you know it's not good.
5
It doesn't matter that his argument is mostly unfactual. His message was stronger than the Pelosi/Schumer rebuttal. His base will follow him off a cliff when it comes to it. Point is: he is dangerous and the Democrats blew an opportunity to connect to his base.
3
Give me a break. There is no “connecting” with these people. The more you try to change their minds, the more they dig in. It’s best to move on and let them figure it out in their own time. Independents and the republican “rhinos”, those are the folks they were meant to reach. Logical and instructional is a perfect approach for these folks.
@Jon: Trump’s base is so dangerous because they are millenarian religious fanatics trying to make the Biblical Apocalypse a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Still, neither side offers a comprehensive immigration plan.
Amnesty for Dreamers may be fair, but it does not fix the problem that created Dreamers.
A wall is at best, one piece of the puzzle at one border. Most immigrants come through the gate (at the airport) and overstay their visa. (At worst it is merely manipulation of the Trump base.)
Comprehensive immigration plans should include:
Prosecution of employers that continually fire citizens to hire illegal immigrants or threaten citizens with immigrants. If no one hired them, they wouldn't come.
Giving all workers the same minimum wage and benefits, and protection from abuses, so that illegal immigrants wouldn't cost less to hire than citizens.
Ending the drug war, which has not decreased the use of illegal drugs even after 50 years, trillions of dollars, millions of nonviolent people incarcerated, and innocents killed in the cross fire.
It would be harder for people to cross the border, if the drug war wasn't funding constant attacks on the border by criminals financed by the high price of illegal drugs.
And stop exporting supply side economics to Central America. These people are fleeing the capitalist "success stories." Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala slashed taxes on the rich, regulations on extractive corporations, and investments in their own citizens, like healthcare, education, and local infrastructure.
Trump is a dangerous con-man, but neither party is offering actual solutions..
55
@McGloin One other point on America's drug war. Before the Drug War was the Cold War and our antics across South and Central America (let's not forget the School of the Americas, the first torture academy. Through the Drug War, we've created the cartels, we've further destabilized these countries as a consequence of our newest obsession, those actions actually created what is really a refugee crisis, much the same as the one where people are fleeing the middle east; another place with America's thumb on the scale.
@McGloin
The Immigration Reform Act of 2013 was bipartisan legislation that passed the Senate 68-32 with 14 Republic Senators voting AYE.
@McGloin
"Still, neither side offers a comprehensive immigration plan …"
Hogwash. Two comprehensive bipartisan sane, secure, and humane immigration plans have been presented to Mr. Trump who declined to sign either of them.
2
Think of Trump as a leased car that is burning oil but can be swapped for a shiny new Pence at a lower monthly cost just in time to avoid a catastrophic rout at the polls in 2020. David Brooks' statement that "Suddenly Trump needs (the GOP Senate majority) more than (it) needs him" is the understatement of the year. There isn't anything the Republican majority can't do better and easier with Trump out of the picture, including confirm the next SCOTUS justice and make common cause with the Democrats on other issues. If McConnell wasn't such a quisling they would have dumped Trump a year ago. Now they're chained to him as his various legal and ethical challenges, supercharged by new House investigations and subpoenas, set him up for a Nixon-style resignation and pardon and a last free ride on Marine One.
2
@Orville: There isn’t a dollop of credibilty left to religious leaders who backed Trump. Pence is the fakest of them all.
I find the fact-checkers' statement "This Needs Context" to be unclear. It seems to mean that what Trump said can be spun another way, which is true of most statements by politicians. Apparently "This Needs Context" does not mean "False" nor does it rise to the level of "This is Misleading." As a consumer of news, "This Needs Context" is not particularly useful because it's not really saying anything.
6
@Patrick. Aye. And Linda Qiu needs context when citing numbers in the tens of thousands, especially if she considers "possessing or selling drugs and immigration offenses like illegal entry" minor violations not worth deporting. Pulling straws like that only helps make Trump's case. (Reminds me of the heroin dealer in Mass. who got next to nothing because he was "supporting his family." Yeah, we all want tens of thousands of those.)
@Patrick
I think what it means is "This Needs Spin".
1
@Patrick: In a fractal universe, context is everything. Every element of a fractal relates to its neighbors.
The simple truth is this: Trump's wall is NOT about "national security". It is about Trump trying to make good on a absurd campaign promise. He doesn't care about the cost (why should he? Since he doesn't pay his fair share of taxes, the money he wants to spend isn't his). He doesn't care about the people whose paychecks aren't being issued because he's holding the country hostage over his wall. He doesn't care about the shuttered government agencies, or who is affected by the closures he caused. He cares only about the optics of his decision and whether or not he'll be perceived as being "weak" if he compromises or capitulates. He is appealing only to his base.
4
@Chris Wildman: Trump is the biggest wate of time in the history of the world, going by the sheer number of living people who see him as fake from a to z.
Senator Schumer indeed voted for a barrier/wall in 2006. He voted for a 600 mile segment vs. a 1000 segment is not an excuse which qualifies for further context review. The question needs to be asked. What is the difference now for changing his position against a barrier he voted for in 2006?
No amount of fact checking will erase the image of Speaker Pelosi and Senator Schumer as the stand-ins for Grant Wood's American Gothic. Their delivery was angry and preachy to keep in character I suspect.
Is there only one lectern in the capitol building? Dear lord! The democrats rebuttal was a catastrophe!
3
In 2006, they voted for fencing in certain areas and the use of more vehicle barriers, checkpoints and lighting to curb illegal immigration, and the use of advanced technology such as satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles. It was a detailed plan with a real budget and experts weighing in on every aspect. Trumps idea of a “wall” changes every day. He has yet to spend 10% of his previous funding for border security. Why should we give him more money for Trump’s half baked vanity project? If he was serious about border security, he’d give E-verify some teeth and hold companies accountable for hiring illegal immigrants. He would be working on ways to deport people who overstay their visas. He would have meetings with the leaders of the South American countries that people are currently fleeing, to set up programs to help them. He would be working on a bipartisan bill for immigration reform. Trump is not interested in any of that, he’s interested in sound bites and “branding”. He is in way over his head.
@F1Driver
According to you, and You are wrong.
He still support wall but not racist symbol and you know very well what does it mean Trumps wall.
This is the difference.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/23/mick-mulvaney/fact-check-did-top-democrats-vote-border-wall-2006/
By the way, ever occur to you wacky kids that there’s something odd about simultaneously yelling this AND yelling that them Dems hate border security?
For me, the most telling response to Trump's speech comes from Sen. Lindsey Graham: “If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party.”
I would have preferred to hear from Senators Graham and McConnell something about the importance of getting the government back to work. That a wall is wasteful at a time when the nation's infrastructure is a mess. That healthcare for all Americans is a priority and that, while we don't agree on how to pull that off, we want to work with all members of Congress to figure it out. That white men with easy access to guns kill far more Americans than any illegal immigrants. And so on....
But no, Graham gets to the heart of his concern and it has nothing to do with the country. For the sake of my children and grandchildren, I pray for the end of Trump's presidency and if it means the end of the current iteration of the Republican party, so be it.
10
I am absolutely not a fan of the president and what he stands for, but it seems a bit disingenuous that all of his partially incorrect or incomplete statements are simply labelled "False" while his partially true ones are all labelled "This needs context".
For example, the ICE arrests statement. His figure is correct but instead of saying "True" the author says "This needs more context" and goes on to say many of the convictions "were nonviolent".
It seems that the article lacks a bit of objectivity.
4
@Victor Exactly. He can never ever get a far shake from the far left media. Ever.
1
Correction--stopping the flow of drugs across the southwest border will have no appreciable impact on the flow of drugs across the US. It may, in the very short term, drive up prices for illegal drugs, but if people want those drugs, they will get them. Alternative sources will become operational before any wall can be completed.
The problem is demand, not supply.
Anyone that believes in market economies knows that if there is demand, supply will rise to meet it.
1
Your 'fact check' of Senator Shumer's statement is shameful. First it was a statement of opinion. He didn't say that millions of Americans are being harmed by the shutdown. But second, even if he had, they are!
You even state yourself that the 800K federal workers have families who are being harmed. But additionally there are the millions of Americans who depend on the services of the federal government including but not limited to, Native Americans who depend on government payments, those who use our National Parks and other federal lands. Later on if the #TrumpShutdown continues, SNAP recipients and eventually taxpayers.
Having trouble reconciling this fact check. Doesn't his mean what the president said was true? I am NOT a Trump supporter, but I think this needs a stronger argument, unless I'm missing something. The accompanying link to the website supported Trump's claim as well.
<“Every day, Customs and Border Patrol agents encounter thousands of illegal immigrants trying to enter our country.”
This is misleading.
In November, the agency, which is actually named Customs and Border Protection (and which oversees the Border Patrol), apprehended 51,856 people trying to cross the border illegally. That’s about 1,700 per day.
The agency also deemed another 10,600 “inadmissible,” which refers to people who seek lawful entry into the United States but are barred from doing so. Together, that would be over 2,000, but “inadmissible” is not the same thing as illegal entry.>
1
trump was backed into a corner in an oval office, not an easy thing to do.
5
Why anyone treats the problem of drugs from within? There would not be supply if there was not demand. Why not prevent and treat drug use? Americans are the ones demanding the drugs immigrants bring to the US.
1
@KG
Were you born yesterday, since when you see from republicans to solve stem of the problem.
If we have mass shooting solution is giving teachers AR15 .
If there is a drug traffic, raise wall .
Honestly, am I the only one that is struggling to find one straight-up lie in his speech?
Perhaps a couple misleading figures, slight number differences yadda yadda.... maybe the only "lie" would be accusing democrats of not wanting to fund border security which they do but in their own way, a way that he believes will not make our border secure so in his mind, not a lie.
Even NAFTA 2.0 comment was not necessarily incorrect... if passed, it is possible to calculate a dollar impact that better trade agreement would net over NAFTA 1.0 and therefore indirectly say it contributes to wall funding.
Conclusion: Trump looked very presidential and dare I say professional last night which did surprise me a bit but was not the biggest surprise.
The biggest surprise of the night was how this contrasted with Pilosi and Schumer's appearance. Everything from choosing the worlds smallest podium for them both to the American Gothic references, to the sub-par contextual language they used, its clear they were a little out of their element. Not sure how this changes anyone's mind but maybe a strategic rethink is in order for the Dems on this one.
30
@Tom - There is no crisis at the southern border. So the entire speech is predicated on a lie.
Are you really implying the style is more important than substance. I pity me. I am a fellow citizen.
@Tom
Straight up lie? Thats the question isnt it.
But the drug references are, for all intents and purposes, about as close to outright lies as you can get with this sort of thing.
the *vast* majority of those people dying of overdoses?
They are not dying because they are injecting regular old mexican brown tar/powder heroin into their veins... the same stuff that has been flowing accross the border in increasingly large volumes since about the year 2000.
They are dying due to the prevalence of fentanyl being laced into the drugs.
as pointed out by the article:
most of the *Problematic* fentanyl that causes the overdoses is being mailed in US Postal Service envelopes from China and Canada (Where East and South Asian gangs occupy the same space as cartels in Mexico)
Thus, the drug issues cited by Trump are simultaneously misleading and basically unrelated.
people would still die, but it would be a fraction of the number were it not for the fentanyl coming from China.
Beyond that the argument about funding the wall through the new trade deal would mean that, at minimum, it would have to generate 25 billion more corporate revenue per year (assuming a 20% tax rate).
of course, corporations pay an effective tax rate significantly less than 20% with the new tax law, so it would have to be significantly more than 25 billion.
And, of course, that means that the increased tax receipts "fund" absolutely nothing else, whatsoever.
2
It seems to me that Mr. Trump’s claims were at best made without crucial supporting context or were undeniably false. That Mr. Trump appeared to stay on script and for the most part avoid his self aggrandizing, accusatory and pugilistic rhetoric is neither “professional” nor “presidential.” It is simply what many of us expect from a leader. It is only notable because Mr. Trump has set the bar so incredibly low.
Additionally, his reason for wanting air time itself was unprofessional and un presidential. He did not reassure or seek to unite people in the face of a real crisis, he did not provide important information to the public. No, he sought to monger fear in the face of a fabricated crisis. Alternatively and true to form, he was imploring our nation to let him have his way (!!!!)
The size of the podium used in Mr. Schumer’s and Ms. Pelosi’s rebuttal? Maybe they wanted to visually depict unity?? The Oval Office is a built in backdrop that conveys “presidential-ness,” but it does not persuade in Mr. Trump’s case. It is historically rare to see a rebuttal immediately following a Presidential address, but in Trump’s case it is imperative because he so often disseminates untruths. I think the Democratic leaders successfully rebutted Mr. Trump, no matter the size of the podium or their unfamiliarity with national broadcasts.
This is an excellent example of why Jill Abramson (previous NY Times Executive Editor) left. This article is pure propaganda. Of the eight points raised, five were, “Needs Context,” (translation, "wait, let us explain,"), two were labeled, “false,” based on nonsense and one was labeled, “misleading,” then explained away with a misleading narrative.
Even the broadcast of Trump’s speech, and whether is should be broadcast, was questioned… then, to finish with, “…[sic] (the networks) forgoing their 9pm entertainment shows – and millions of dollars in associated ad revenue…” a comment you NEVER would hear about in preceding administrations.
I’m by no means a Trump supporter. But the actions of the NY Times in the past three years has invalidated any credibility they used to enjoy.
Once again, this is a MAJOR failure by the NY Times.
9
@UncleWaldo
No, context does not equal propaganda. Supplying necessary context is exactly what reporters should do and does not in any way invalidate their credibility.
As to the rest, you don't explain what was "nonsense" or misleading. Talk about no credibility.
1
The Networks failed it's paying audience once again. Just say no. EVERYONE knows it's a phony issue and it should be treated as such. They don't give free air time to Climate Change, homeless, drug crises, and other real issues. So why do they cave in? Fear. But that won't help them fend off Trump and the lying Republican machine. They are much worse than the print media. Let Fox be Trumps only outlet. Then the rest of us don't have to waste our time turning off the TV set and start streaming earlier. Hound McConnel like crazy. Embarass him and his Senate cronies.
3
So the guy Who occupies WH obsessed this phallic symbol of Wall came empty again 10 minutes of prime time addressing.
Talk was more creating fog and instilling fear and doubt in minds than offering a solution.
I will not give a penny ( tax payer) to this wall until This guy explain comprehensively what I was expecting from a Border security improvements.
1- Port entries must be upgraded Truck and Car x ray scanning all of them ( expensive yes, but I don't sepnt money for a dummy concrete or steel wall.)
2- Increasing border security agents number on south border and their technical capacity ( Drones, helicopters, facilities and centers)
3- Improving some part of south border fencing,
4- Improving immigrant process facility quality.
I haven't heard a letter from him about this things.
He obsessed about wall, he doesn't even know what is wall. he is mumbling concrete, steel etc. what are you talking man, what is in your mind?
Make your case meaningfully, and
Please release the hostages ( open the government) , people are suffering.
3
Trump burped a sentence during talk
" Wall will pay wall"
That is exactly where we are people , lost in dementia.
1
Why can't the Times just call it a lie? Trump says heroin floods across the border, but the wall has nothing to do with this. The stuff is smuggled in at legal border crossings. Trump speaks as though Mexicans do it, but clearly people of all ethnic groups do it. A most outrageous misleading of the American public! The media is not doing enough to counter these lies!
6
@Debra
Why don't they "just call it a lie"? Well.. That would be lying.
Why does no European country have 300 opiode related deaths per week?
3
@Adam Partly: 1) Because no country in Europe has the population of the US. France, for example, has just a little bit more population than California. 2) Because no country in Europe allows doctors the uncontrolled prescriptions for opiates. 3) Partly because most European countries, unlike the US, have effective drug treatment and rehabilitation programs. Instead of treatment ,the US response is incarceration without treatment.
No one holds a gun to a person's head and forces them to use opiates just like no one forces people to drive while drunk.
1
@Adam
Once Our fedral government was fighting against communism in South America with drug lords ( like now in Afghanistan) so we allowed them even helped them to pass drugs to USA.
Communists are gone but Drugs are still here.
Trump had 2 years of Republican control in DC to accomplish this goal and didn’t: Failure #1. Now he’s shutting down government because he doesn’t have the votes: Failure #2. Sad!
14
@Cathy Breen
Exactly,
Let me add this too.
So while he has Congress , he secured first his pocket ( tax cut for Rich) . Tax cut passed very decisively and robustly.
Than he remembered his deplorables.
But he was late, now he is pretending , he is fighting hard for them and satisfying their racist appetite.
He is a man for his profit even his beloved base get shafted.
2
Regarding the claims about drugs flooding the southern border, the biggest falsehood is that the wall would have any impact on that. These drugs come in at ports of entry for the most part, not at unwalled portions of the border. Your fact check didn't make this clear.
5
@Kit Lots of drugs come in by way of very sophisticated tunnel systems along the border.
This is brilliant! The president's tweets should be fact checked on the front page of the New York Times every day, until he is gone.
8
Mexican drug trafficking and 300 opioid deaths per week is not fiction. That is a security threat. Unaccompanied minors with no family here need to be returned and more ports of entry need to be opened to hasten processing in Central America's embassies. President Obama deported hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants en masse and no outcries. Visa overstays abuses at the airports also need to be corrected. Shutdowns over a border wall is to be condemned whether it would help or not.
@Nadine: Most of the the opioid addiction in the US is by way of legal prescriptions. A lot of the illegal import is from Asia in those huge cargo containers. No one is forced to become addicted to drugs. It is a choice.
Well, he's done it. He's become a bore. Even the car crash that he is wasn't enough to make that show worthy of attention. Back to bad tv was a welcome choice after his mediocre presidential attempt. Didn't even want to have commentators reiterate their thoughts on the matter.
4
Mexico will pay for the wall indirectly. The man should do "stand-up." Trump's shamelessness when he spins these tales is evidence of his inability not to con voters, including his base.
4
These are lies. Not only are they lies, but it's also a lie to label them as merely "misleading". The press needs to stop sugarcoating their coverage of this hobgoblin.
6
It seems absurd with all this fact checking necessary because of Trump's constant feed of lies. Maybe he can just tell his base (i.e., lie) that the wall is finished and we can re-open the government.
3
Your analyst Alan Rappeport is flat wrong about Chuck Schumer's statement.
Mr. Rappeport claims Mr. Schumer "needs context" because he claims millions or hurt while "only" 800,000 federal workers have lost their paychecks. He forgets the millions of people who will soon lose benefits like food stamps due to the shutdown. I myself was laid off just before Christmas and can't get my application for SNAP processed. That is direct harm.
Mr. Rappeport ignores or discounts the suffering of innumerable Americans who rely on these programs to survive in this country and should retract his statement.
7
There are also contractors who are not getting paid because they are employed by private companies that support government programs and agencies.
How did we, Americans, stoop so low that we just ACCEPT the fact that our President of these United States lies to us multiple times daily about national security matters and we do absolutely nothing.
It is stomach churning.
9
Pelosi and Schumer deserve equal fact checking time. The most notable disingenuous comment that they would agree to a compromise after the Trump caves. They have already disclosed that they have NO intent to compromise. Trump would be a fool to agree to Pelosi's and Schumer's false promises concerning a future unknown "compromise".
2
Why should they “compromise” just to help Trump weasel out of his repeated public promise that Americans wouldn’t have to pay for a wall?
Goes without saying that Trump lied, but the fact checking matters.
3
All eyes now turn toward Trump Adviser, Sean Hannity to see what the President's next move will be!
4
I am waiting for Pelosi/Schumer to introduce a bill to tear down existing walls. After all, they are immoral too.
1
Trump the "big dealer" operates like some Mafia guy- hold other people's families hostage as your leverage. People who have nothing to do with his delusion. Why doesnt he get over there and start telling Mexico to pay? And stay there until they say Yes.
5
Why would anyone care what comes out of Trump's mouth? I mean, at this late date, if you haven't figured out that his words are worth nothing you should get yourself a fishing pole and try to do something productive.
3
a wall would not have stopped Melania Knauss, illegal immigrant, from overstaying her visa
6
The New York Times' claim that the number of illegal border crossers have been declining for nearly two decade is inaccurate. It declined for years from its peak in 2000, but begin to rise in 2016 and 2017. I
The number of illegal border crossers is still far from 2000 levels, but there is a catch that the Times neglects to mention. Illegal border crossers appended in 200,000 were nearly all Mexicans. They could all be returned to Mexico within a few days of their arrest. Despite their numbers, they did not overwhelm the detention system because they spent few days in custody.
Today, most illegal immigrants were Central Americans, most of whom claim asylum when apprehended crossing the border illegally. Many turn themselves in to the Border Patrol after crossing the border illegally. Unlike Mexicans, Central Americans cannot be immediately returned to their home countries. Unlike illegal immigrant of 2000, they are overwhelming Department of Homeland Security detention capabilities and have to be released into the interior. This is what the Trump administration refers to when it refers to the crisis on the border.
2
@William Case: It is US support for banana republicanism blowing back.
1
@Steve Bolger
No. It is Immigration and Customs Enforcement Directive No. 1102. blowback. Titled “Parole of Arriving Aliens Found to Have a Credible Fear of Persecution or Torture,” this Obama Administration directive granted parole to any migrant who demonstrated credible fear of persecution. Instead of being held in custody while their asylum requests were being processed, asylum seekers were released with notifications to appear at future court hearings. The directive triggered the Central American migrant tsunami.
@Steve Bolger
I have heard the excuses. It is not America's fault Central America is poor.
Does anyone fact check the fact checkers here? Some of the remarks are ridiculous. Schumers "millions affected" is patently false. Pulling the multiplier effect out of your hat is nonsense.
3
Millions are affected. It isn’t just the person earning the paycheck that gets harmed. Their family members suffer too. And private businesses of all sorts suffer from reduced demand for their products and services. Finally, it isn’t just Federal workers who are suffering. Millions of people employed by private companies that support federal programs and agencies are not getting paid (trust me, many are close friends of mine who support NASA missions.)
@Robert When several hundreds of thousand Federal workers are off the job, everyone who relies on what federal workers would spend t are affected. It's called the "trickle down effect."
After some consideration of hours about Trump's speech and his bigotry, I've concluded it is not all of his making, but there was a bigotry and inclination he probably learned as a young landlord.
I won't excuse his bigotry as he now appears to be a full fledged White Supremacist who disparaged Hispanics emotionally as well as tried to cultivate hate in blacks by telling them Hispanics were taking their jobs. Trump makes no effort to hide it. Trump stays angry
Steven Miller has been cited as a proponent of discrimination of migrants in many accounts as he works behind the curtains unquestioned. Trump's Blonde slim attorney, who has been out of the news for months and her name escapes me, was a player on Long Island decades ago as a consultant to then County Executive Steve Levy who embarked on an effort to vilify undocumented immigrants for their use of public services in his county. She has been advising Trump.
Tonight Trump alluded to law enforcement authorities advising him of the facts he then recited. It's obvious to me now that the then prejudiced Don Trump has been cultivated as a leader of hate and is now indistinguishable from a White Supremacist. He is being pumped up from behind the curtain.
Don Trump will not veer from his entrenched hate until people tell him he is a pawn being manipulated by those under him. He is being used as he has displayed an open mind to those who try to appeal to him. Try to teach Trump love to conquer his entrenched cultivated hate.
2
All that matters is we have laws and they must be followed. You cannot enter any nation illegally.
5
@BillVol: The US has a court system that lawyers venue-shop for judges amenable to their own interpretation of laws.
1
@BillVol
We are sir , We are following the law.
What do you mean by that, ICE, Border Security, Immigration dept. Town safety officers are all doing their job. Their best.
Please USA is not Switzerland by any measure , you cannot secure borders like Switzerland even in your dreams.
Extend the shut down/freeze to include the border control professionals. Asymmetric negotiations with this nutbag will have no meaningful outcome.
Other than anecdotes, I don't know what I'm talking about; be it walls, income tax levels, nuclear treaties or global warming. All I "know" is what I read in the news and even then, I'm not sure the reporters know what they're talking about.
The world is a complex mess and there are people who devote their entire lives to studying its facets, history and future. Maybe they are "experts" or maybe they have an agenda. I don't know.
I woke up this morning and I couldn't get off my back. All I could see were my many legs waving around me,
1
Millions of legal immigrants? What facts support this statement? None, it appears. Most of our political discourse centers on refugee- and asylum-related immigrants. They number about 150,000 each year. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States
1
@Albert K Henning
Legal immigrants are about 40 million,
increasing by about 1 million each year.
in a population of 330 million.
That is plenty.
We do not need more.
We do not need another 150,000 gaming the loosey-goosey asylum regime with such nonsense as claiming "fear" of "domestic violence" is grounds for asylum.
We do not need them.
Especially not when 90% of them do not show up for hearings on their claim of asylum or do not obey orders to leave when their claim is heard and denied --
and that makes them illegal
-- despite any initial claim of putative legal entry.
In addition to very large numbers of legal immigrants,
millions of illegal immigrants are already
"estimates" range between 10 million and 20 million.
We do not need them.
They have no right to be here.
And we certainly do not need more.
1
Take the issue of building the wall to the people of the United States for a vote and put this elementary school style behavior by the President and our legislators to rest once and for all! ALL of them should be ashamed of themselves.
2
@Ginny: Trump has even blown the credibilty of voting out of the water, 3 million votes short of the candidate with the plurality of votes.
Do you notice, there is no immigration crisis on our northern border? Canadians would be crazy to want to live here.
The crisis is in the Evil (Oval) Office, not the southern border, you are correct NY Times.
The prime time "message" was empty, void of fact, and delivered by an empty shell who can hardly read a teleprompter.
"Liberals wondered why news outlets would defer to a president who, hours earlier, had used Twitter to label journalists “the Enemy of the People,” “the real Opposition Party” and “crazed lunatics.”" It appears the POTUS is confused when he looks in the mirror. The descriptors are a more accurate assessment of him.
@LaPine: The Republicans have no secrets at all. They project everything that that know is sick about themselves onto everyone else.
1
few facts to check from Shumer or Pelosi
1
Too bad you never fact checked G.W. Bush.
1
Yet again, Mitch McConnell betrays our country. The two times I’m aware of are (1) when he threatened, pre-elections in 2016, President Obama, who wanted to make U.S. citizens know of Russian interference,, and (2) refusing to take up legislation that trump won’t sign. McConnell needs a basic civics lesson in the role of the three branches of government.
6
@Karel Kramer: Guited civics education accounts for Trump.
1
McConnell said about Democrats opposing the wall: "Or maybe they are that dead-set on opposing this particular president on any issue, for any reason, just for the sake of opposing him.”
this from the guy that said his goal was to make Obama a one term president. Disgusting.
3
I've said it before and will say again. If you want to stop illegal immigration go after the people that are hiring them. If there are no jobs for them they will not come to this country. You won't need a $40 billion wall just a fraction of that cost for law enforcement to clamp down on small and larger businesses like restaurants, hotels and construction jobs.
In regards to drug trafficking, it's not a supply problem it's a demand problem. As long as there is a demand for illegal drugs they will find a way to supply this demand. Legalization of marijuana may help in the area as history shows that prohibition only strengthened organized crime it didn't do anything for the demand for alcohol.
This country does have an immigration problem, but that cannot be corrected with a wall.
5
Let's make a deal to reopen the government. Both parties can win and all Americans will be happy. Pass a universal healthcare package and build the wall. For the Dems, healthcare is important and for the Rep, the wall is important. Let's come together and agree on these two items.
Why should it have to be a tit-for-tat? Universal health care (as we have in Canada) is clearly the right thing to do. Why should that be bargained for, especially for something as stupid and ineffective as the Donald’s wall? Can you imagine an employer saying “I’ll pay your wages but only if you walk up the stairs backwards every day?” That is not good governance.
1
Have we really grown so insensitive to the bigotry of the far right that no one is shocked by Trump's unwarranted attack on immigrants as supposed criminals? Immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes than native-born Americans-- not more.
I was shocked and sickened by the words spoken last night by the President of the United States. Have we really become so accustomed to bigotry in the highest levels of government that no one thinks any more that what happened in the Oval Office last night was a violation of what America-- since it sacrificed a generation of young men to end slavery and passed the 14th amendment-- has always stood for?
3
"In many cases, immigrants — legal or illegal — are seeking jobs that American citizens do not want to do."
You have to add this phrase: "at that wage"
Americans have always in meat processing plants but now that the average wage for this dangerous job has been reduced to $8 / hour, no one will take the job except for someone who has no other choice,
Sure Americans will pay more for their bacon. But is that such a bad thing?
3
Sounds to me like he was pretty spot on with most of the facts. If anything, the Dem response was lacking any solid information/data/examples/reasoning/ideas.
4
Sen. Lindsey Graham has an extremely low threshold of what it takes for Trump to act in "such a presidential manner".
3
The Times has been very liberal with its criticism of Trump. Given that, why is the Times not highlighting that both Schumer and Pelosi have previously voted for a border barrier and enhanced security, but now have condemned a border barrier. Obviously they are playing disingenuous manipulative politics. They have publicly stated that they do not seek a compromise. Clearly they do not seek a solution. Schumer and Pelosi should receive the same type of condemnation that the Times inflicts on Trump.
5
Trump promised repeatedly Mexico was going to pay for it. It’s not Democrats’ responsibility to bail out Trump for his Big Lie.
Did you read the article? That point is literally addressed in it. Trump dismissed the additional fencing that Schumer supported as inadequate and a "nothing wall." So either Trump isn't asking for what Schumer previously supported or Schumer never supported "a wall."
@Kip: OK, your opinion, but that is now old news. We are past that news now. Now the Democrats who previously endorsed a border barrier are now against it for selfish political reasons. Not only that but they have publicly declared that they will not compromise. The Democrats deserve criticism for their current intransigence and duplicity.
2
There's a critical difference between lying and spewing propaganda. Trump's "base" doesn't care about his lies because they understand that he's not delivering facts, or even non-facts--he's performing to rile them up.
If they were disappointed last night, it would not be because of any factual errors--it's because he was constrained from performing. (He knew it wouldn't sell, and he knew this was why.) Fact-checking is important, but not sufficient in counteracting propaganda.
The other night I heard Sam Nunberg make reference to Edward Bernays as a mentor. I don't know if he meant this figuratively or literally, but it is extremely significant--Nunberg credits himself with the"build the wall" idea, and Bernays is considered the father of propaganda.
All democrats running for office need to grasp the distinction between lies and propaganda to have any chance of beating this grifter.
2
In other words, more of the statements were fact based truths than anyone wanted to give credit for. It figures. Got it.
2
From a far but much befriended Europe, I would like to ask: Why not disentangle a bid the different topics to see a bid clearer the Problems one by one? Why not address an opioid crisis primarily with a new deal of consequent help for the addicted AND seemingly consequent war on the trafficking organizations and dealers? Why not upon up government AND agree on a bipartisan deal to improve effectively boarder control WITH a Wall, Fence or whatever is most appropriate?
As much as I very often dislike the overall behavior and stile of the current President, I hate to say it, but I believe a substantially improved “Wall” will indeed contribute to boarder security. Even though worst criminal minds will always find a way around it, it might still give a clearly deterring message to those, who so far have not taken the USA seriously in its determination to fight illegal migration and drug-trafficking. So, if the Democrats want to win over the many worrying family fathers in the Midwest and all about the USA, they should not call the Wall an immoral thing to do. Instead they might agree on every contribution feasible to ease the life of US people.
2
The speech was actually pretty innocuous, for Trump anyway. The writers of this article clearly set out to "get" him, but had to quibble in some cases. (E.g., 1700 is not "thousands", but is the point worth several paragraphs of analysis?) The overall effect is to cheapen the significance of his serious errors.
I think the speech should be taken as a fair expression of Trump's arguments for building the wall. Why not give a line-by-line rebuttal to show that there is a better approach to immigration management than his. Currently the debate seems to revolve around human interest stories on both sides. After so much media overkill the net impression can be summarized as, "Republicans love walls, Democrats don't". Can't we go deeper than that?
3
Mr. Trump's monotonal speech was not only full of falsehoods, it highlighted his difficulty in reading. He seemed to struggle repeatedly with simple words.
Rather than convince me we need a border wall, he reinforced my belief that we need a real president, one who understands what's what because he takes the time to be briefed by his staff and to think about the ramifications for Americans, not just for himself and his cronies.
3
He said thousands. The fact-checked number is about 1,700 or 2,000 (including inadmissible attempts at entry). When you consider how many then try to come after a relative is here, that’s a lot of people, all living here illegally, not protected by our laws and vulnerable to exploitation and also the underground economy of drugs and violence. Then there is the simple but very important fact that they pay zero taxes but, in states at least, have access to our healthcare, schools, and can even get a driver’s license. All of this screams for immigration reform, which both the President and the democrats oppose in their different ways. The President puts his head in the sand and denies the reality of the millions of illegals already here who have to be dealt with in ways that are at once fair and practical, and the democrats pretty much deny that there is a real problem with having people coming into the country illegally. That’s nice when you live in D.C. and are driven around in limousines, have your children in private or well-funded public schools, and go to nice restaurants and have all the perks of our elected officials. But what if you live in a border town or just in a city or state that has been overrun by illegal immigrants, many of whom want to work but whose desperation drives down wages and in many cases leads to involvement in illegal activities?
4
Don't get me wrong, I am no fan Trumppy. He is a disgrace to the office. However, why is the legal immigrant issue glossed over. I am in a profession decimated by legal and illegal immigrants( was a union electrician). one of my colleagues, came here from a foreign country, has a side business there, dual citizenship, retired from his home countries military and worked for 30 dollars an hour less than a union electrician with no benefits before getting this job. He is not fully qualified nor competent in his new found union job and is already applying for management positions that he is not qualified for. How do I compete against that.
The system is broken and the standard bearer certainly should not be Trump nor his Merry band of extremists. neither should the bleeding heart leftists fix this. Charity begins at home. the rest of the world should work on taking care of their own.
6
Allowing this political PR on the national networks was another destructive event for our society.. it only opened the divide further.. a political stunt which will have NO effect on the resolution or policy issues contained in this "wall deal".. Only separated the public even further. Media has long contibuted to this debacle over and over again by giving Trump so much press and tv time on daily news and in print. I want this horrible destructive leader of the once strongest democracy in the word out of my life..I didnt watch.
The saddest of all is a President using a national prime time address to bash the other party. The message is simple, he is not the President of all the people, he is the President of Fox News listeners.
5
“If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party,” Mr. Graham said.” Senator Graham knows all too well that agencies of the Republican Party, not least the NRA, have colluded with Russia, and began the process of delegitimizing the GOP a long time ago...
2
Democrat presidential nominee Hillary Clinton has criticized Republican rival Donald Trump more than once about his idea to build a wall along the U.S. – Mexico border.
Clinton’s past, however, tells another story — one that includes her husband and a border fence.
Former Clinton staffer Dick Morris reminded Americans recently — because the mainstream media certainly will not — that former President Bill Clinton built a 325-mile fence along the border between California and Mexico in 1993 with Hillary Clinton’s “strong support.”
In 2005, then-Sen. Clitnon said she was against illegal immigration and suggested the U.S. needed to come up with a system that keeps track of them. In 2006, she joined Senate Republicans and Democrats and voted for the “Secure Fence Act of 2006.”
In 2008, when she ran against then-Sen. Barack Obama for her party’s nomination, she had some rather interesting things to say about the border, they sounded surprisingly unlike her more recent rhetoric.
In fact, they sound a lot like what Trump might say.
Earlier this year, when asked about the border, Clinton admitted she had “voted numerous” times to spend money on “a barrier” (she was very careful not to use the word “wall”) to try to prevent illegal immigrants from entering the country.
There is also video on Obama wanting to build a wall !!!
I say do it Trump ! Get that Dang wall ! That is why we elected YOU !!!
2
Hate to break it to you but that election is over.
2
It is well known that Trump has problems with the facts and truth. To him the truth is liability and bad policy. He became president by lying and lying from ‘birther ‘ movement to false promise beautiful Great Wall paid by Mexico and also taking help from Putin. Now even he speaks the truth, American people do not want to believe.
Trump blinked last night. Game over.
1
The fact that we need to fact check the President AT ALL is grounds for outrage!
3
Think about it..$5.7 BILLION! What the heck is wrong with us! That much money could go so very far in modern improvements to immigration to make a more positive impact. A wall is not positive. It is inert and doesn’t move us forward!
Let us get a grip! This is STUPID and counter productive!
4
@Sandra
Obama spent $ hundreds of billions with not much to show for it on climate change. $ 5 billion is not that much with respect to the $trillion federal budget.
1
Why would anyone EVER believe a word that comes out of this guy's mouth!
10
He is a liar and an ignorant coward. A liar because he wants to achieve his own success defined as success in getting the things he wants. An ignorant coward because he knows of no other way to achieve the same goal. He is futile as a president.
6
Thank you to the NYT! You are among the credentialed and respected news outlets that are starting to report Trump's lies, up front. Every report should include a fact check of this habitual, self-serving liar and cheat.
3
NYT willing to split hairs over every detail in the speech when we havent seen them go to this level of effort with past Democratic presidents really betrays their bias.
Calling Trump out for saying "thousands of illegal immigrants are encountered at the border daily" when the number was 1700? Really? I think most people would just say thousands for convenience. Youre grabbing at straws here, NYT.
15
@david @david If you review the documented 7000+ lies reported by various sources with evidence you'll find thousands of whoppers (complete falsehoods), some repeated for months or years even after being disproven.
You implies Trump has a track record for honesty and that MSM (now Fox) reporting falsehoods are splitting hairs.
He boasted for closing down government that harms 800K workers for a made up crisis that's a political ploy, and you're debating calling 1700 "thousands"?
The first “fact” challenged by this article is a rhetorical position held by the president. It’s a political dispute. This isn’t fact-checking. It’s quibbling, argumentativeness, sophistry, and not-so-subtle resistance to the president’s agenda. The NY Times is a constant mouthpiece of only the left—hardly accurate in the whole sense, and certainly not objective in traditional journalistic principles.
7
Pouty faced and spewing lies IS the most presidential he has ever looked and acted. Usually he is potty mouthed, slanderous, angry and deranged looking too.
2
@Upstate Dave: Yesterday was a virtuoso teleprompter recitation by all.
1
If DJT's wall was so critically important that it had to be implemented even before the masterful negotiator easily convinced Mexico to pay for it, why did he and the Republicans in control of both houses in Congress not reduce the trillions in the 2017 tax cut by a negligible rounding error @$5B to fund it?
9
Compromising the paychecks of 800,00 and more federal workers just to construct a dysfunctional wall? Vile inconsideration at its finest for sure.
6
@Marco
About half of those are considered non-essential. Why does the government employ such a large number of non-essential bureaucrats?
You obviously don't know the government definition of non essential. It includes border control agents , TSA , and the folks that would process your tax refund. Essential is basically code for people will die immediately if staff leave, e.g. staff in vet hospitals, firefighters etc.
What about fundraising trump did off of his 10 minutes of malice? Lawrence O'Donnell showed a letter sent to his "base" Did trump use his time on tv to raise money for unspeakable 2020?
7
Fact-checking a prediction makes no sense.
Trump said Mexico 'will pay' and your clairvoyant fact checkers declared it 'false'. How can they know if it will or will not happen?
7
Because the President of Mexico has already written the possibility off.
9
The President's logic, such as it is, on the trade deal with Mexico, yet to be ratified, paying for the wall could equally apply to the great new trade deal we can expect with the China, yet to be negotiated. If he doesn't get the wall, he could use the savings from the trade deals to give us that 10% middle class tax cut.
1
I'm not impressed with the Time's fact check either, but that doesn't change the fact that a wall is NOT a practical, cost-effective solution, and it certainly does not justify a government shutdown. Let's face it, Trump was ready to sign an agreement that would have kept the government open without funding for the wall (he knows very well the wall is a bad investment, but he made a senseless campaign promise) until members of his base threatened to turn on him. This is all about his re-election plan
6
Forced labor without pay is slavery--not that Mr. Trump seems to care much about the dark history of slavery. Time to chase Mitch McConnell out of the shadows and push him to do his duty and pass a sensible budget to pay the DHS and FAA people who protect the country.
2
@RobEnders It would be better just to be sure to get rid of both tRump and McConnell. Both are foul lice.
Where is mention of the vile and misleading fundraising requests that were sent out in connection to the speech from the oval office? (Anyone wishing to be nauseated can look up the actual content of these messages.) This speech was a campaign advertisement for 2020 that was funded by the major networks. Just as the value of media coverage of Trump far outweighed similar coverage of his opponent in 2016, Trump is again bamboozling the mainstream media into providing free advertising for the 2020 campaign. Instead of falling for his con, media organizations should be reporting more extensively on the very important news of the day having to do with the Trump campaign providing polling data to the Russians. So what we witnessed was both a campaign piece and a smoke screen. Talking about this speech as a serious policy piece is the height of naiveté, playing right into the con.
6
@SC: The credibility of the US is statue made of ashes now.
1
Linda Qiu conveniently omits that in 2013 every Democratic Senator voted funding for a barrier. The bill did not pass in the House.
6
@Al Galli
That had nothing to do with Trump's lies and the government shutdown.
Chuck Schumer's response is not exaggerated. Millions are affected and not just US citizens. Here in Canada, some cannot get the services from US embassies etc. It is not just US citizens who are affected.
4
The president felt the need to address the American people last night for what he said was a crisis. We also got to see the chutzpah of Trump. While the major broadcast's decided to interrupt their shows, and millions of dollars in associated ad revenue Trump was having a fund raiser to raise $500 thousand dollars DURING his address to the American people. The American people had to listen to the propaganda of a campaign speech, and he wants us to believe him?
8
Fact checking Mr. Trump is useful for the data bases. Political bases go by the emotions. He is good at stoking these. More is the pity.
1
It’s not a matter of the right pushing Trump in the wrong direction. Trump is amoral. The right or left means nothing to him. When Trump decided to enter politics, he surveyed the options and realized that going along with the republicans presented better opportunities to pillage the American people. Think about it. Why is it that whenever we have a republican administration, we always either have another war or huge crisis, tax cuts only for the rich, and runaway deficits and debt. When we have a democratic administration, the republicans complain about how the democrats are raising the national debt while the democrats are trying to undo all the damage that the republicans caused during their administration. It's always the same; it never fails. We need term limits for members of Congress to control the corruption from corporations that is running rampant in Washington and we need to tell Donald Trump, “You’re Fired!”.
6
@Wally Wolf: Nobody is more credulous of con artists than people who believe the universe was decreed into existence. They are what the Republican Party feeds upon.
1
Fact checking your fact check: Millions of workers may actually be directly affected by the shutdown because of the large number (4.1 million I read on NPR?) of contract workers that are not technically on the federal payroll, but can't work or earn their paychecks while the government is shutdown. I was one back in 2013 and never received back pay for my forced vacation.
169
@Kat You can also add in people who require government workers to do their job. NYT just had a depressing article on damage being done in Joshua Tree, and that the park may be shut down - this will mean many companies (a rock climbing outfit was highlighted) have to cancel tours, meaning the staff will not be getting paid since there is no work. I am sure thousands of tourists are canceling tours preemptively.
I've also read about how this will impact some home sales, and closing of loans, which could result in driving down of home sales prices.
I'm sure there are others, but those jump to mind.
8
@David Yes, so upsetting about Joshua Tree, some National Park damage may never be able to be repaired (what's wrong with people??!!).
The communities where federal employees live, shop, and use services will also suffer the lack of business, as do the communities around the parks.
The Ripple Effect: This shutdown truly has a MUCH more far-reaching impact than 'just' the 800,000 plus workers!
@David Add to that people who depend on federal benefits such as food stamps, or Native Americans relying on federally funded tribal services. It hurts them too, and the more so as the shutdown lingers, when the local stopgap measures also run out of money. I also really can't reconcile Trump's rhetoric on security and tough law enforcement, with his holding up pay owed prison guards, coast guards, TSA agents, and border patrol agents. Way to show them how much you value their work!
Where’s the fact checking of his statements of visiting the families of people killed by illegal immigrants?
6
Ask yourself, “Why are these people
coming here? Are they making this long journey and leaving everything and everyone they know behind to kill people in America?” Do you really believe that?
Or are they escaping violence and poverty? This is more likely.
244
Murder isnt always pre-meditated.
4
@Manish Why should we take them when Mexico has offered them asylum. They are asylum shoppers wanting to go to the country with the best benefits.
10
@Manish: While you make a humanitarian appeal you ignore that these people are breaking the law. Additionally, there have been illegal immigrants who have killed people on this side of the border.
They may be trying to escape violence and poverty, but they are bringing violence and poverty to the US, they are putting many low skilled US citizens out of work.
Finally, in the interest of fairness, what about those who are trying to enter the US legally? Seems that you are throwing the rule-of-law and these potential immigrants under the bus. That is not how the US immigration process is supposed to work.
5
So Lindsey Graham thought Donald was presidential. Does he mean the man-child knows how to read a teleprompter and not veer off script with rude remarks? Low bar. And we are talking about our president. Again, pathetic.
9
That statement from Lindsey Graham is disturbing: blindly support the "president" or it's the end of our party.
1) Isn't that already happening?
2) Which will convince the cult more: Falwell's declaration that his dear leader is this infallible "president," not Jesus, and true "christians" would never oppose him; or Graham's apocalyptic prophecy.
These men are appealing to some dangerous thinking.
7
Trump repeatedly states that heroin (or drug of the day) is being brought in by migrants. Given he doesn't read much he probably doesn't know (or doesn't want to know) the drug epidemic was fostered WITHIN the USA and then spread to the rest of the world.
5
How many lies Nancy and Chuck said in their speech? They said the wall does not work, that is a big lie. They said they are for border security, that is a lie. They said they are for opening the Govt. right away, that is a lie. Though the Democrats lie, mislead and exaggerate in their speeches, Fake News see faults only in Trump.
In fact none of the things Trump said is a lie, even the claim that the trade deal with Mexico will produce much more revenue than the wall. He did not say that revenue is specifically earmarked for the wall. This kind of fact check is the reason why Trump has more credibility than Fake News.
6
@Alex E
The wall will not work. More and more polls, even Republicans, are becoming aware of that. Higher walls just encourage longer ladders.
The Democrats allocated close to $2 billion for border security. To then claim that they are not in favor of it is rather fatuous.
The Democrats have been pressuring Congress to reopen the government. Trump is trying to blackmail the nation by refusing to do so.
Trump said the wall would be paid for by increased revenue from Mexico. That increased revenue can be spent in many ways. To claim that it will pay for the wall is stealing from Paul to pay Peter.
1
@Alex: Trump advocates here just project the worst about themselves onto everyone else to rationalize support for their own king rat.
1
"This needs context"?!?!?
I wish you had done this with some of Obama's speeches on gun control, which were filled with "misleading" statements that "need more context".
I think that's called politics, or more politely, spin.
6
most heroin does come across the southwest border.....
this is indeed troublesome. Fentanyl regardless of where it comes from just pumps up the high from heroin and it's what kills most addicts. Will Trump's border wall stop the supply of heroin that seems to pour into this country? Did anyone answer this?
I can't help but think that if heroin was very hard to get and expensive it would cut back on the absurd addiction rates we have in this country.
Hi. Yes, the issue of drugs coming over the southwest border was addressed. The fentanyl/heroin that is brought in is smuggled thru legal ports of entry hidden in cars and trucks. But the majority of those drugs comes from China and arrives in packages shipped thru the mail. In either case a wall will have no effect.
1
There were over 30,000 deaths and 70,000 injuries due to illegal immigration. Over 300,000 crimes were committed last year by illegal immigrants. And it’s not a crisis???
Oh, wait a minute. That was gun violence, not illegal immigration.
Never mind.
7
Thank God it was only ten minutes of misinformation. Graham thought it was "presidential." Yes, presidential if you like being lied to.
5
Someone has to look into why the president sniffs so much when he reads a speech.
3
Economists are clear: immigrants from our southern border are an important source of labor and contribute mightily to our economy. As others have noted, this border wall and shutdown kerfuffle is a distraction by a would-be dictator who's running from the law. It is a stinking cloud of racism and lies.
3
You are confusing immigrants and Illegal immigrants.
2
@Me
All the "studies" by supposedly erudite and supposedly impartial economists who tout the supposed benefits to the "economy" from immigration
talk about total gross domestic product (total GDP).
None of them talk about what really counts,
namely, GDP per capita.
A bigger "economy" (total GDP)
is not a better economy (GDP per capita).
Just look at India and Canada,:
India has a far bigger "economy" (total GDP) than Canada.
But which economy is a better economy (GDP per capita)?
To ask the question is to answer it.
Canada's economy is by far the better economy.
How so?
Because India has far more people.
So the bigger economic pie
gets sliced up into far smaller individual slices.
2
@david I am confusing nothing. Immigrants are immigrants, and all contribute to our economy in major ways, particularly in the agricultural and construction sectors. The dysfunctional immigration system is not the fault of these refugees. NO person is "illegal".
I cannot believe that Lindsey Graham has made such a Faustian pact with this devil. Does he not realize this could end his government career? The people he alleges to serve are going to wake up one of these days and understand this man has lost has mind and become as awful as Trump.
4
@DBA: Lindsey is on deck to benamed Attorney General when Trump decrees martial law.
The United States people should not have to pay for a campaign promise. Trump is gaslighting, supersized. This should be felon,does not belong in the WH. Gang GOP must break their contract with the devil and protect their constituents and this Country.
1
Nothing should be left of the credibility of the Christian Right since it hitched up with Trump.
1
“You shall know the Truth, and the Truth will set you Free!” Really? Anyone with even 1/2 the brain power of a fly knows when they’ve been lied to, yet, Politicians seem to have the power of deceit to convince us that “WE’RE the ones who are the liars.” Amazing!
2
Trump is the arsonist who set fire to our house who is now demanding our life savings to put out the fire.
5
Most comments needing context only? For Donald, this was an exercise in veracity!
Do we really think that Trump's shutdown and his great lie about Illegal immigration is anything but a distraction from his own criminality? No. The networks should not carry him. The Democrats should not respond to him. Indict him now for Obstruction of Justice and Campaign fraud. There's more than enough evidence, and most of the support he has will crumble when it's laid out. That's the only way we're going to end this idiotic shutdown of the government over a paltry $6 billion.
1
Fact checking Trump is very easy
If he said it, it is a lie.
1
Thank you NYT and WaPo for sitting through all the lies and half-truths.
I'm sure in mobile homes across trump-nation his highly educated base of readers is pouring over the transcripts to see if The God-Emperor lied to them.
1
A wall will not stop robot immigrants, each which take 4 jobs, 30 million USA citizens have no health insurance, or atmospheric carbon climate change which threatens our planet and national economy http://earthlobbyist.com/home/
1
It's wonderful to have good fact-checking, ... and almost nobody does it better (consistently) than the NYT. ... But the new "leaner" NYT - esp. trying to do things in minutes that probably deserve and require more than that - fumbles and worse an increasing pct of the time. Here's a for instance -
“In the last two years, ICE officers made 266,000 arrests of aliens with criminal records.”
[critiqued as follows]
These criminal convictions covered a range of offenses, including many that were nonviolent. The most common charges were for traffic violations, possessing or selling drugs and immigration offenses like illegal entry.
Quite a mix, EVERYBODY would agree. Yes, the last one is knotty - WHAT WOULD YOU DO if you felt your kids' lives were endangered? What would you do if you wanted your kids to have a "good life" and the U.S. had erected either or both of 2 barriers - (a) fencing et al; and/or (b) immig. policies resembling tourniquets!
But it's the first & 2nd that trouble me. (1) traffic violations sound minor ... until someone driving without a license causes injury or death to "real Americans" - folks like you and me, presumably.
(2) SELLING DRUGS - WHOA! Not as headline-grabbing as Willie Horton ... but (a) in some ways more pernicious, given the country's drug problem; and (b) kinda what you'd expect when folks who lack skills like literacy and don't "have papers" ... have to put food on the table in a place like L.A.
Trump rebutted?? I think not!
1
If Mr Trump gets his $5.7 billion, that would have been facilitated by using the well-being of 800,000 US citizens and employees as a bargaining tool. These 800,000 are not a mathematical statistic, they are real people with mortgages, who need their wages to live. I thought the purpose of a President was to try to help his citizens lead a better life, whether they voted for him or not, not to use their discomfort as a weapon.
9
Why did this only become a "crisis" after the Democrats took control of the purse strings and could be blamed? Why wasn't this "crisis" addressed when the GOP had control of the White House and both houses of Congress?
10
I am a retired school teacher in California who taught in a low income culturally rich community. I think this wall is a fake issue, a symbol of racism. I know people who were undocumented, and saw how hard they worked. I know documented immigrants who came here through "chain migration" and I see them contributing to our community as well. What our country needs is a better immigration law that allows chain migration, easier access to work visas for farm laborers and a more enlightened approach to people seeking asylum. Of course, I want drugs stopped before they get here, but most drugs come into our country from the south in cars and from china through the mail or on ships. Focus on screening all vehicles and vessels at the legal ports of entry, not small family groups so desperate to get to our great country that they would risk a desert crossing.
10
The last country in the last 100 years or so to build a wall to keep people out/in was the Berlin wall built by the russians It didn't work. It made it very difficult (because of the russian troops and their machine guns et al). But people transited the wall gambling that they would make it and a lot did. Finally it was torn down when an American president told the russian president "tear down this wall" and it soon came down. Physical walls don't work they just consume money to build and maintain.
7
Glad to see that some fact checking was used to evaluate the statements by the president and by his democratic counterparts in congress. However, I was dismayed to see that the president was called out on several of his statements yet only one was marginalized as needing context for the democrats (by Chuck Schumer). As a lifelong Democrat that is tired of the circus of the last few years, I think increased due process by all media would be very helpful in calming the frayed nerves of this country. I think for a much more effective argument, and to prevent continued accusations from the right about an imbalanced hyper-biased media, a more transparent and fair accounting of the fact checking process itself should be included. That is, quantify how many statements were true by the president? and how many were true by the democrats? On the balance which party was being more misleading? Both parties should be held to the same standard/scrutiny so that any claim by any party for the higher ground is, wait for it, vetted. Let's not enable an echo chamber for ANY party. Otherwise, just sell the NYTimes domain to facebook, prevent naysayers equal say, and call it quits. Give all Americans a compelling reason to have confidence in your reporting.
3
One thing I don't see mentioned in the fact check is what the impact of the wall would be on flow of illegal drugs. Many methods are used to get heroin and cocaine into the country, and I would be very surprised if the wall would slow the flow in the least.
4
This fight is about political dominance and optics -- the optics of a wall which symbolizes "defense" vs. no wall which symbolizes "openness". Each side is speaking to its base of supporters and the dems have a base made of many who sympathize with illegal immigrants versus the GOP which has a base of America-first nationalists. Taking on Trump on this issue is similar to George Bush's "read my lips" fight -- which, after he conceded, contributed significantly to his re-election loss. Trump and the GOP as well as Dems know that this fight over $5B is not about the money, it is a rounding error in our budget, instead it is over dominance of the discourse -- plain and simple. If Trump concedes the Dems will shove it in his face come re-election time, and he knows it -- so the fight continues.
Trump undermines his "businessman" cred every time he makes moves like this government shutdown -- yet another instance of his taking a stance or making an order without working through the possible and probable consequences of his actions, which a truly effective, competent businessman would do. He is in a corner of his own making and he has taken 800,000 federal employees with him.
1
Trump, of course, continued his pattern of lies, half-truths and bluster in his address to the nation; his eye is on 2020, of course. But we are, or should be, accustomed to his approach by now. What needs to happen is a greater recognition that the majority of Anericans want our borders secured, wall or otherwise. Much space has been devoted to sad stories about the plight of those attempting to enter illegally; we are approaching empathy fatigue. There isn't a nation in the world that allows unrestricted access to foreigners and with good reason; the costmis prohibitive. The US welcomes limited immigration using kegal process, but we cannot sustain the continual hordes of the poor pouring in from the South. A wall, an electronic frontier, whatever barrier will work - that's where our efforts should ve directed.
Although "only" 800k direct federal employees are not getting paid, there are a lot of other people, like those who work for federal contractors and those who serve federal employees (ex. food service workers and taxi drivers), who are not getting their typical paychecks because of the shutdown. Those people will almost certainly not get back pay. So, over 1 million people directly affected is not an overstatement.
3
SOMEHOW the NYT thinks that the Southern port of Entry from Mexico is on the Canadian border.... TRump said the southern border, YOU are implying he said only across non entry points.... As far as Mexico paying for the wall.. The Congress funds projects thru tax revenue...Revenue is revenue....When the new employees and companies come to the US as a result of the USMC trade agreement, this will produce NEW revenue, if not for the agreement these dollars would have gone to Mexico, So yes , Mexico is indirectly paying for it...
1
A wall is not racist. It's an inanimate object.
Have you ever been to Disney world? There's multiple layers of walls and physical sorting barriers to ensure the entry of people is safe and orderly.
The goal of a wall at the Mexican boarder isn't to stop asylum seekers or immigration for happening (just like walls at Disney world don't stop people from enjoying all the rides), it's there to create a process that is fair to everyone involved.
3
@Johnny
Including waiting your turn in line -
and not jumping the line --
however long it might be.
1
President Trump has spoken about nothing but a wall. He has not mentioned anything about improving a process to help asylum seekers.
I guess 100,000 people illegally crossing the border every MONTH is acceptable to you guys . I'm not a Republican, I didn't vote for Trump, but he is right about the border. And making the Border Patrol and ICE the enemy doesn't make sense either. This hatred for Trump is clouding people's thought process. When all these guys drive down YOUR wages, when your hospital bills keep going up, since NONE of them have insurance, we'll see what you think then. And they'll still be coming across the border, since you apparently feel that nothing can be done about it,so nothing gets done.
22 million here now. How many is enough?
2
The president should reopen government and then spend all his time and energy talking to Mexico to pay for the wall as he promised. Don't ask Congress and the American people to pay for the wall!
Immoral, yes, we ought to say that in passing, but the Dems would do better to use terms like "useless," "ineffective," and "a waste of money."
Pelosi and Schumer ought to broadcast right from the House floor—use their set the way Donald used his. And they ought to simply say these things:
We already have a wall.
Most illegals enter through airports.
Most of the remaining border is privately-owned, and will be tied
up in eminent domain lawsuits which will go on indefinitely, and
ultimately be dropped.
Ecological areas will be damaged.
Drones are more economical and efficient.
Border towns are not interested in any more barriers.
Money already allocated to date for this new Maginot Line has not been
spent.
And of course—Mexico is supposed to pay. And they will not, and obviously should not.
Fear is a funny thing. The people who most support the WALL live farthest away from it. Why do you think that is? Seems the less people know about something or someone, the more they fear it. That's how ignorance works. Knowledge really is power.
"In fact, as of 2017 (according to the Pew Research Center), people who lived less than 350 miles from the border were the least likely to support Trump’s wall. In other words, the people supposedly on the front lines of what Trump calls a crisis are those least inclined to support the proposed solution to it.” —VOX
Yeah. Say that.
3
The address was a travesty; a fear-mongering monologue filled with tired tropes about fewer jobs for African-Americans, extreme violence against vulnerable US, threats to our economy caused by immigration, bad bad Democrats, and a no-cost wall. Oh yes, and an audible nasal snort after each sentence. Nothing about compromise, or any type of proposal both sides could live with. Pelosi's and Schumer's calm and measured responses were a nice contrast. This whole thing is sickening. If Republicans don't get their act together there will be a rout in 2020. I don't understand how they can't see that.
163
@EMiller Republicans are backed into a corner. They put all their money on Red at the political roulette table, because north of 80% of their party likes Trump, but as anyone who plays roulette knows, the house's odds are stacked; in this case, Trump keeps coming up double zero for them, which means Red loses.
They have two choices: burn Trump and lose their base, or support Trump and lose enough of everyone else so that in any election not in an overwhelmingly Republican area, they're toast.
Or so they think. Actually, the folks who turned Trump away from the bipartisan deal two weeks ago are only about 20% of the country at best, the ultraconservatives who do not ever want to compromise and will never admit they are wrong even when they realize they are. Trump could have said, "Look guys, I tried my hardest, but Mexico won't pay for the wall. Since that's the way it is, I'm going to make a deal with Democrats so that the US paying for wall is palatable for everyone. As President of the whole country, that's my duty."
Know what? Most of his base, who actually get that the Wall thing was pure theater, would be fine with that. Supporting Trump, they generate what Sen. Graham uttered about not supporting him. Oh, the base would stay intact, but it would be Trump's base, which is not enough to sustain the GOP and certainly not enough to save his Presidency or the GOP's power. He's asking for a hail Mary, hoping through some miracle the GOP catches the pass in the end zone.
20
@EMiller
Doesn't he simultaneously claim "his" economy has been "the best ever" for African-Americans? Not that we expect honesty or consistency from this self-absorbed blowhard.
11
@EMiller-Your observation about his statement that illegal immigrants was spot on. Another example of his racist heart. It made my blood run cold when he said it. What a horrid, horrid man he is.
6
According to the NY Times (A Border Wall to Stop Terrorists? Experts Say That Makes Little Sense, January 8, 2019), Jason Ludke of Milwaukee was arrested in Texas and was planning to go to Syria or Irak and join the Islamic State. It is interesting that this individual was planning to go through Mexico. So the wall could protect Syria and Irak by keeping the terrorists inside the USA. Therefore this is not Mexico whom should pay for the wall but Irak and Syria.
I think Andy Borowitz has the right idea:
"Mexico Agrees to Pay for Trump’s Psychiatric Care"
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/mexico-agrees-to-pay-for-trumps-psychiatric-care
5
Trump may get his wall of steel bars, but he might not like his nasty roommate.
8
we don't need Nancy and Chuck lecturing us like two scolding parents. we need this TSA guy telling us how Trump's childish behavior affects all of us...
http://bit.ly/2AD2k9f
Lie to me once shame on you.
Lie to me twice shame on me.
Lie to me three times shame on me again.
.
.
.
Lie to me 7,489 times shame on your parents and their defective genes.
5
@Victorious Yankee Sorry Yank. Most of what the Times and WAPO label as lies are hyperbole (size of crowds) OR political points that the "fact" checkers disagree with. As with these "facts."
So basically, Trump was telling the truth. The Democrats didn't address the serious issues at the border, only that Trump stated that Mexico would pay for the wall. As an American, I'm livid that our government spends billions of dollars in other countries, build walls in other countries and send pallets of Cash to other countries but is unwilling to protect our own borders from drug and human smugglers. Trump has don an amazing job defending our country, bringing jobs to it's people and putting the citizenry first. Despite the MSM on a constant attack, constantly stating that the "walls are closing in on him" and that "Russian Collusion with Trump" actually happened , he's doing well. I am proud of my 45th President. He stands up for me and my family and unlike those here who want him to fail because they hate his style or are hurt because Hillary ( the real Russian Collusion Candidate) didn't win, I wish him all the success and prayers in the world. I'm an American, I stand with my President and pray that he wins in 2020!
8
You have been conned by a guy who has made his living conning people.
6
@Brett
How will you handle it if he's actually nothing but a con man, and what's the 5 billion for a wall so the contractors will give him a kickback of $500million to $1billion?
@wanderer Better than you handle the fact that there is 0 evidence that he's committed a crime. He's been found guilty of nothing but doing a great job, surely better than Obama but all you people do is down the man.
1
As a retired dentist I noticed during his speech last night that the the President's left eye was constantly twice as open as his right eye and that the pupil was very dilated which could be pathognomonic of a stroke or brain damage. I could not determine if his right eye's pupil was dilated as much because he was squinting it but I did hear his sonorous breathing and sniffling and wondered if he either was taking cold medications or was using a drug such as cocaine causing those signs.
9
Really Linda Qiu? You think it is objectively, definitively, unequivocally "FALSE" that the Dems won't fund border security? If you were being honest you might have said something like this: The Dems will only find 1.3 billion for border security and the President wants 5.6 billion. Given that every Democrat Senator from Obama, to Clinton, to Schumer, supported billions in funding to build massive 18 foot high steel barriers in 2006 (700 miles of which was completed under Pres. Obama) at a cost of approx. 5-10 million per mile, it is clear that 1.3 billion will be inadequate, especially when taking into account funding for all other border security measures.
3
@HW. You kill your own argument. Yes, it is false to say Democrats won’t fund border security if they offer $ 1.3 Billion. End of argument.
Tues the 8th, not 18th
The best thing for our country is a) to get rid of the majority rejected, racist, low-class, probably criminal Trump, and then b) to kick out every lousy fellow traveler republican in any office one can. We need neither Trump's stupidity, nor bought-and-paid for corrupt republicans doing everything to benefit only the filthy rich, and harm the rest of us. Enough is enough. Get rid of the bums.
1
Mitch McConnell has abdicated his responsibility to lead the Senate. Prior to the shutdown, the Senate passed a bipartisan bill to keep the government open prior to the shutdown. I believe the vote was enough for a presidential veto override - why is McConnell allowing the president to pull his puppet strings instead of leading?
3
You guys are outdoing yourselves with this fact check that could have been subtitled "Let's split hairs." By the way, love how easily you dug up he prior position of Kevin Hassett, the White House’s top economist, that the United States should double its intake of immigrants, but you just couldn't seem to uncover past statements by Sen. Schumer opposing illegal immigration in the strongest terms, finding euphemisms such as 'undocumented' to be absurd, and staunchly supporting an 18 foot high steel barrier because barriers work. Strange how this critical flip flop has somehow eluded you.
6
@HW
So true.
"Kevin Hassett, the White House’s top economist, argued before joining the Trump administration that immigration spurs economic growth and that the United States should double its intake of immigrants.
— Alan Rappeport"
Slavery spurs economic growth. It also depresses wages.
This is indeed selective fact checking and a clear example of bias that "needs more context".
2
Greed,
Hatred,
Delusion.
The three pillars of Trump's life, and the root causes of all human misery.
He's not really a president, he just likes to play one on TV - and he has shown us his core values once again.
3
You forgot fear. Trump lives in fear of being found out to be fake. He doesn’t realize, we know.
Some may believe this to be a minor point, but I find your labels of whether his statements are "false" or "need context" are misleading. Virtually every item labeled "This needs context," was really a false statement. You should label it as such.
For example, saying "90 percent of heroin is smuggled across the southern border" is a lie. It needs very little context. The number is not even close to 90 percent. It's not even a majority of the amount.
How about this for a more accurate rating system.
Bald-faced Lie, A Lie, False.
Some may claim I'm picking nits. I think not. Perception is reality. Your current rating system makes people think Trump stretches the truth as does many a politician. He does not. He lies. All the time.
How can one tell Trump is lying? He's opening his mouth.
7
I cannot begin to fathom the big disappointment of the MAGA crowd who watched the speech hoping that:
• Trump would pick up the phone and call Mexico for the money to build the wall
• Mexico would agree not just to the $5.7 B but to the real cost of the wall
Except that all they saw was the same coward who can’t even pronounce every two words without pausing to catch his breath (seriously, is Trump on cocaine or is he having a mini heart attack?).
But still no phone call to Mexico.
Confirming their belief that they voted for a coward.
Two years and counting, still no phone call.
What a coward, indeed.
3
The country is in much deeper danger than any one single
problem it faces......
The enemy within is far more dangerous than people seem to realize. History repeats!
Unfortunately the American people appeared to have accustomed to Trump chronic lies. Where is the outrage? Where’s the national media making a issue of these lies? Obviously for many Republicans the NYT continues to be the source of “fake” news. We need this country up in arms. We have lowered our morals, standards, ethics having this con man seating at the Oval Office. For goodness sake what is going on?
6
Fact-checking Trump = shooting fish in a barrel
Finding a true statement from Trump = Where's Waldo
3
Continuation , in a haltingly, non convincing 6th grade book report by a nervous student who didn't do the research required to make a valid argument, he just made stuff up, thanks to Stephen Miller, the 21st Joseph Goebbels.
We MUST remove this joke from office. Mueller and Dems turn up the heat.!
5
I could not believe that Trump emphasized in the opioid epidemics. The whole country has fallen to drugs obtained via their doctors... Trump cant blame Mexican cartels for that disaster from within
8
So basically, most everything the President said, and the Democrats' response, "needs context" to the times, or is "misleading." Gee...I bet Trump is the first politician every in the history of America to mislead the America people.... ? HA!
1
Sen. Lindsey Graham has turned into such a pathetic Trump toady. Auditioning for an appointment, perhaps as AG?
3
what a phony, insulting debate. pure idiotic politics.
does a lock on a door always work? of course not. that means--no more locks?? or replace the lock and do more?
a wall or a lock is the MINIMUM, whether it fails or not. a wall, or a lock on the door, is not stupid or amoral just because it is not fool-proof. what an asinine, despicable insult.
trump would be happy to trade Dreamers for the wall. what are these bozos waiting for?? make that deal. it's win-win.
2
Why dont we see any criminal prosecutions of the managers that hire these illegal immigrants? Why not attack the prinlem grom
2
Let's quit wasting time, declare Trump unfit for office or impeach him for something, end the shutdown and get on with the nation's business.
4
People seem to have forgotten how government works. We absolutely do not need trump to reopen the government
This is not only on trump, but on all GOP leadership. On 12/20, a bill to reopen all other parts of the government, except homeland security, passed 100-0 in the senate. When is the last time anything passed unanimously in the senate?
This is a veto proof majority. Congress can reopen the government at anytime, but McConnell refuses to have the vote in the senate. We know it will pass in the house.
People of Kentucky, please contact McConnells office. Your state is repeatedly in the top five of most government dependent states (depending on the metric used). Why are you allowing yourselves to be hurt over this?
7
FROM THE STATE DEPT REPORT
In addition to its financial and fundraising activities in the Western Hemisphere, Hizballah also maintained interest in the region during 2017. A Hizballah operative was arrested by the FBI in the United States in June 2017. Among other accusations, he was allegedly involved in surveilling U.S. and Israeli targets in Panama. And according to early 2017 media reporting, the Bolivian security services previously uncovered and disrupted a Hizballah cache of explosive precursors in the La Paz area. The Peruvian government’s prosecution of a Hizballah member arrested in 2015 is still ongoing, with the Peruvians successfully appealing a ruling acquitting this operative of terrorism charges.
I came here for a fact check on the sexual assault claim but came up empty. If this is true, it seems like good justification to discourage family migrations like we're seeing. Improved ability to claim asylum in home country or along the way?
1
Last night was a disgrace. And frankly I worry about the president's stamina. Does he still have a breathing problem?
Most troublesome is the invention of his numbers and how those numbers continue to change. First it was five billion, then it creeped up to 5.4, 5.5, now at 5.7 billion when we all know it's really going to be 100 billion before all is said and done. And for what?
And what about the lies with number concerning the number of terrorists stopped at the border. The Director of Homeland Security used the number 3000 in the presser at the White House. Two days later the number was 4000. Is it any wonder a majority of people do not trust anything that comes from this administration?
8
I purposely did not watch Trump last night, but I did catch the Democratic response. And after reading this article about his continued distortion of the facts - in other words his blatant lies to the American people - all I kept thinking of was the advice given to a man caught cheating on his wife:
Deny everything, even if they have pictures.
If that doesn't sum up this president I don't know what does.
4
Thank you SVMirador.
SO - we know from more than a decade of intense personal experience:
- the crisis does not exist
- the wall that is in place does not work
- boots on the ground does work
- illegal immigrants have never been a threat to us or any of our border friends
The national emergency is the man in the White House. McConnell MUST not stand in the way of both houses of Congress doing the work of the country. Vote on the bills, let 45 veto them, override the veto. Congress do the work for the good of the country.
6
“If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party,” Mr. Graham said. Is that why I feel like a hostage in my own country?
5
Ah, Lindsay Graham. Sure didn’t take long for that worm to turn. And to think I used to actually have some respect for him.
I oppose the wall. I advocate open borders, with short-run maximum admission rates only to smooth out the flow of new people for the society and economy to absorb efficiently. This is only to avoid bottlenecks.
There is, however, a second, completely separate issue raised by the placing of the Times' fact check item in the most prominent spot of the entire paper, center top.
The NYT opinions expressed are pretty good. But they are still opinion. To confirm opinions as facts is the work of subsequent months and even years.
Pace Agnew, with his "instant analysis", what we have here is "instant fact".
The breathlessness of the piece recalls the tabloids' coverage of Wiener's photographic ventures.
It is, of course, the prerogative of the Times to highlight its opinion and to appeal to those who like a brawl.
But, if you intend to continue this genre of journalism, may I suggest another grabber in the front page sweet spot:
"The Times will no longer be America's Newspaper of Record. We have decided to compete, on their level, with our various drum-beating competitors."
5
Another day another package of manufactured lies from the serial liar Trump. Whats new? The humanitarian crisis at the border is the direct result of him and the vast majority of illegals enter legally, they then overstay their visas. I have had enough of this clown show. Time to cancel the series, the clown show isn't funny anymore.
4
How much longer must our great nation be subjected to whims of the delusional Coward and his fear laden lies masquerading as policy?
4
POTUS is the biggest peddler of fables, half truths and outright lies. For a man good with hammer, everything is a nailhead. Trump thinks that he is on a four years Reality Show and his followers clap and cheer him up without a clue where US of A is being misled to a bottomless pit. Real problems - healthcare, education, infrastructure....are brushed aside. Well, good luck US of A, you are going to need tons of it.
1
It is most shameful and depressing that major newspapers and TV channels find it necessary to fact check the President of the United States during an address to the Nation from the Oval Office. Errors or mis-speaks by a President can be overlooked, but this man is a proven liar.
4
"In many cases, immigrants — legal or illegal — are seeking jobs that American citizens do not want to do."
The reason American citizens do not want to do certain jobs is because they do not pay enough, and the main reason they do not pay enough is that employers can use immigrants who are not union members and will accept much lower wages. All people in the country, whether immigrants or citizens, should earn decent wages by American standards, not those of less-developed countries.
One way to solve the problem is have a reasonable minimum wage.
14
where is your fact check of Pelosi and Schumer? Who is their right mind would assume those two would tell the truth???
8
Thoughtful voters do.
3
@James The fact check of the Democrats' statement is right there, in black and white. The "problem" is that it contains only one check, because there was only one potentially misleading statement in what they said. As opposed to the carpet of lies the pResident threw down.
2
Isn't this rich...Trump getting "fact checked" by a bunch of leftists that hate him and his family. I venture to say the "fact checkers" all are all, every last one of them, are registered democrats and certified Hillary lovers who didn't care a wit about the FACT that she obstructed justice and violated the espionage act.
10
@Steve
Whataboutism...on steroids. Nice try...
3
Proof please.
These are not NYTimes facts. They are government statistics and direct quotes of President Trump and his advisers. You can research this yourself.
2
A focus of discussion in one of my graduate school classes - Hitler's speeches.
Essentially we were studying language, format and the construct and requirements of a propaganda tool.
Interesting stuff.
Trump attempted to "sell" a "propaganda" piece to the public last night.
He used all the requirements - the lies, the fear, the suggestion of the re-ordering of the known world due to "outside agents"....
My skin crawled when I read his speech - my first thought - Hitler has been re-born.
And I thought after the destruction wrought by Hitler the world had learned .
Trump must be stopped - he is a danger to this country, to the concept of democracy, to our Constitution.
HE MUST BE STOPPED.
19
A real problem here is the absence of a credible, convincing Democratic spokesperson. Regardless of their legislative skills, Chuck and Nancy look and sound like a husband and wife team from a car dealership.
Where have you gone. Jack Kennedy?
4
The NYT is so proud of uncovering all the "lies" in the speech. But if these are the most egregious examples, this was a fairly truthful speech. All of the NYT's disputed points were mere quibbling. I'm beginning to believe the guy more and more.
7
It’s quibbling when it is pointed out that building a wall will have virtually no impact on the smuggling of drugs into this country?
No budget discussions. No Surveys. No legal opinions. No effectiveness studies. No period of public discussion. No alternative studies. No public agenda.
Only one man’s simplistic imagination and an arbitrary number.
This is not democracy, this is dictatorship.
11
Who fact checks the fact checkers? Your fact checkers just can't help themselves. Instead of labeling a statement "True" and then adding their own spin, they label it "misleading."
Instead of acknowledging that Sen. Schumer once supported a "physical barrier", your fact checkers state "This needs context." Instead of acknowledging the truth of Trump's statement re heroin deaths, your fact checkers respond "This needs context."
Trump's statement about ICE arrests was 100% true but once again your fact checkers said "This needs context". They simply cannot bring themselves to us the words "True" and "Trump" in the same sentence.
My response very time I read a NYT front page article about politics is, sadly, "this needs context". And your paper abandoned any effort to supply the "context" long ago.
7
I can’t recall anywhere in this article reading the phrase, “This needs context”.
The speech was the best the White House 'brain' trust could come up with. It amounts to misrepresentation and does not come close to showing that there is an emergency. It does point out the total failure of the 47 year old War on Drugs - started by another failure Republican president - Nixon.
Trump's War on Immigrants will be a failure of equal proportions.
7
Well to be fair, trump's boss thought it was a Great Speech.
Putin was surely laughing his head off watching his little puppet distract Americans from the direct, actual threat posed by Russia.
6
To be fair and objective, in addition to noting that “inadmissible” and “illegal entry” are “not the same thing”, it also should have been noted that “encounter” - the term the President used - and “apprehend”, which is the statistical “fact” that the NYT used, are also two different terms, with two different meanings. If Customs and Border Protection agents “apprehend” all of the individuals they “encounter” each day seeking to gain entry illegally into the U.S., then the NYT’s premise would seemingly be correct - but if those figures are not the same, then the President’s statement could be factual, and the NYT’s inference that it is not could be a misrepresentation on its part. The point is that we want our journalism to rise above the fray - and we expect that from the NYT, particularly in an article that is represented to be a “fact check” of the President’s speech. I know that the NYT can do better, and we need it to do better.
5
The Times is getting massive criticism for this piece. Trump went on television to soothe his massive ego. Chuck and Nancy went on to stop this charade, and end a fraudulent government shutdown.
1
Someone needs to fact check your fact checkers! Senator Schumer supports a physical barrier "needs context"??? How completely disingenuous!
Sen. Schumer said the following in 2009: "Illegal immigration is wrong, plain and simple. When we use phrases like 'undocumented workers,' we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combating illegal immigration...Any immigration solution must recognize that we must do as much as we can to gain operational control of our borders as soon as possible... [and] construction of 630 miles of border fence... create[s] a significant barrier to illegal immigration on our southern land border."
This border fence is an 18 foot high steel barrier. I know it pains you to admit that the President is correct, or that a Democrat is being hypocritical for partisan purposes, but not acknowledging that Schumer has consistently supported massive steel barriers is dishonest.
5
Mr Trump, every week 700 Americans are killed by guns. most of them manufactured in America.
time to act don't you think?
13
It's interesting that the Times blames China for the opioid crisis, without mentioning the true culprit: the good old American pharmaceutical industry. Does someone from the Sackler family sit on the board of directors?
I'm growing tired of mainstream media's relentless desire to be "neutral" and provide false equivalencies. Schumer's statement did not "need context." He said the shutdown is hurting millions of people. Period. He did not say millions are not being paid.
To claim such a statement needs context and insert the word "directly" to somehow cast doubt on his words is ridiculous. And even if he had used that word, which he didn't, even if you're not the one on the government payroll, if your mom can't afford lunch money, or your dad can't pay the light bill, guess what? You're being "directly" impacted by the shutdown.
Objectivity is supposedly what journalists strive for. Neutrality is not a synonym for objectivity. As journalists, shouldn't you know that?
6
@Jamie
Maybe you can help me out. How many needless deaths have to occur before any Democrat will admit a crisis is occurring? How many unknown people sneaking into America is too many? If tens of thousands of deaths, and millions of undocumented immigrants is not a crisis, give me some numbers that Democrats will agree with.
It appears that our "esteemed" fact checker has confirmed the truth of what Trump said.
3
Trump's nothingburger lie-fest was a double-hitter CON JOB! First, he conned the networks into broadcasting it as a virtual 2020 campaign stump speech/rally for his base. Two email "letters" his campaign sent out to their supporters before and after his speech insisted that the campaign had to "raise $500,000 today" for a border wall fund, with small print at the bottom revealing that it was "part of" his campaign's general fund. The first email assured "patriots" who contributed that their names would go on a list that Trump would see. The second email--to everyone on the same list--said their names weren't on the list yet, so the deadline had been extended to give them a chance to donate at least $5. Trump's campaign thinks his supporters are even more stupid than we think they are -- and the campaign is right about that.
6
It sickens me that this man even utters the words, "heart and soul' he has neither. Both speak to the emotion of empathy for another, and the only empathy he experiences is for himself, the victim.
Citizens losing their paychecks, children separated from their parents, U.S. citizens being killed by assault weapons. He is responsible for these atrocities and more. This man is genuinely a soulless, heartless, empty vessel.
He is the last person on this planet that should have an ounce of say as to the direction our nation should be executing regarding the immigration of human beings. He is a compulsive liar who believes his lies. Your "fact check and background' is an example of thousands.
The fear he is trying to create is a diversion from the terror he lives with. djt's Pandora's box of secret illegal actions has been pried open, and he has nowhere to run.
1
If any other President than Trump gave this address, they would be believed!
4
others have given a similar address. Clinton for one. he was believed
1
@Michael Kittle,
But mr. reagan was a two-faced, fear mongering liar too.
@Victorious Yankee..........yes, but he would have been believed!
While no one of course has to believe anything, despite the best efforts of the NYT not a single lie was found. The this " needs context" is argument and does not make the contextualized statement a lie. Those two items listed false, Need context. Trump said the Government remains closed because of Democrats not passing border security. Very different than who shut it down. Trump will sign the bill today that gives him wall money. But his is only editorial posing as news a fact lost in the commenters here.
2
Nice and good, but you don't have to take drugs.
Everyone knows its dangerous so why take them.
And it is American Citicen's with enough money to buy drugs.
and the excuse is I am in pain , go to the Dr. if you are in pain.
Chris Schmidt
Like so many problems in the US, illegal immigration is self-inflicted. It is a political wedge issue that has lingered for decades exploited to win elections - and Trump took this to the extreme. We could have implemented a fair, practical process to not just accept but to even attract immigrants south of the border to do various forms of work that most Americans do not want to do and provided a clear path for illegal immigrants to become citizens versus just having them run perpetually on a hamster wheel. Personally, anyone that is willing to upend their lives, travel hundreds and even thousands of miles, work hard to improve the quality of their family's lives seems like someone I want to be a citizen of my country. It is in fact in great part what this country was built upon.
As far as border security goes - yes we live in harsh and dangerous times - and there are places where a wall might be a deterrent from the least dangerous immigrants but the very elements that Trump is concerned about have the means and the will to overcome any physical barrier that is in their way. People get outraged and ask "do you want open borders"? Of course not but the reality is - they are open and it is literally impossible to physically close them. I am all for border security and luckily for us - we live in an era of advanced technology - so we must use that to good effect. But that requires sophisticated and nuanced thinking. Are we even capable of that any more?
7
I wish the Times and other news sources would get the issue of Trump claiming Mexico is paying for the wall straight.
Suppose you have a discussion with your employer and renegotiate your duties and, as a result, your salary goes up by $20,000. At the same time, you are trying to convince your significant other that it's time to buy a car. Can you argue that the employer is paying for the car? Of course not. The re-negotiation with your employer could have happened whether or not you had the car in mind. The additional $20k did not appear because of the need for the car.
On the other hand, suppose you approach your parents and say "I really need a new car; the old one is in bad shape" and, having generous parents, they write you a check for $20k. Did they pay for the car? Yes, they did.
Trump promised us the latter and we are getting the former. This is simply another example, which happens almost daily with this guy, of Trump trying to fool some of the people (The Base) all of the time.
9
The problem is they don't want to get it straight that wouldn't fit there narrative painting Trump a liar ya know
@Andrea Maietta I'm afraid you mis-read my post. Trump is not being "painted" a liar; he is one. The proof is overwhelming and undeniable. My post describes one instance of his lying to us, claiming that Mexico is paying for the wall when it is not.
@Alan Rappeport Chuck Shumer was correct that Millions of Americans are affected by the shutdown. You chose to focus on the federal workers, that is only part of the story. WIC/TANF will be stopped. Child Care Development Fund will be affected. And many families with special needs children are having difficulty ensuring that their kids can get access to the Katie Beckett Medicaid waiver program because a requirement is a previous denial of SSI--who they can't talk to because there's no one there to answer the phones.
4
Trump is largely correct as your "fact" check clearly shows. Unchecked illegal immigration is a disaster on multiple fronts. Democrats simply refuse to acknowledge these facts because they will not give President Trulmp a "win" under any circumstances. This is embarrassing for our nation.
Any rational person knows that a wall should be part of the solution to our porous border. A 30 ft. wall sloped outward at the top and perhaps with other features (wire at the top, electrification) would stop almost anyone. The chief of the U.S. Border Patrol appointed by Obama has given interviews this week clearly stating that walls and barriers work and should be authorized.
Democrats don't care. They are putting their political vendetta against Trump ahead of the safety and security of our citizens. Shameful and petulant.
3
Who fact checks the fact checks
“The federal government remains shut down for one reason and one reason only: because Democrats will not fund border security.”
TRUE
The last bill of the year was passed in the house was for 5 billion for border security, The Dems blocked in the Senate.
Is it really that hard to comprehend, that if something that is not supposed to be there causes harm, the harm would not have occurred if it was not there,
2
@Peter James The deal maker extraordinaire said on many occasions that Mexico would pay. Well Bone Spurs appears to be not the star he thought he was ( a real legend in his own mind). Get to dealing Bone Spurs and make Mexico to pay for your beautiful wall.
We're all missing the point. The yuge crisis in the sordid world of Donald John Trump was the horrifying thought that his popularity would dissolve if he didn't do something grand. Most of us were but a reluctant captive audiences to this one-man rally soliciting approval from a handful of power-mad pundits and the unthinking masses in his fearful, angry, yet adoring, fan base.
3
The vast lies continue to astound me. However is he so naive to think the wall will stop the drug cartels? Certainly not. Better border security, using technology and manpower, is more effective than an idiotic wall.
4
The fact is that Donald Trump became the one and only President of the United States that we have by ignoring every fact except the worst demons of our socioeconomic political educational demographic historic gender,color aka race, ethnic, faith, national origin bigoted prejudiced ignorant stupid xenophobic nature and nurture.
2
No one believes your fact check. First point, the Democrats have offered no compromise, they are responsible at least 50% for this shutdown. Get real
2
@Mark V
The Democrats have offered endless compromises. 100 senators voted for one recently. Where have you been?
1
Lies no longer matter here in the koch's america.
Heck the world just watched brett kavanaugh perjure himself over and over again, while under oath, yet that deviant now sits on the koch's supreme court.
'Merica is such a joke these days.
And last night was just another nail in 'merica's credibility coffin.
8
Sen Lindsey Graham has again stated the obvious. trump's wall is nothing about border security. It is, as graham stated, all about the politics of trump. Graham offers no justification for trump's wall, asserting instead that trump's and the GOP's political futures depend on it. Graham, at least, is being honest.
8
Where is the detailed report of the border done by Trump's administration? What is in it? No one has mentioned it.
5
If this is the Times idea about fact checking, it should be rebranded to be things we disagree with Trump on and things we dislike about him.
The fact of the matter is that ensuring the security of our border is important. The democrats are deliberately withholding adequate funding because they don't want to give Trump a win. Many democrats have endorsed enhanced security, but fight it now because they hate Trump.
A wall in some locations will make it more difficult to cross. That should be obvious except to those who are pro open borders.
And the Times and progressives shouldn't conflate immigration with illegal immigration. Whatever the number of immigrants that should be allowed each year is something we decide, not those who want to enter illegally.
If there is a cost to illegal immigration, taxpayers here pay for it. I've seen estimates as high as $100 billion when you throw in social services, health care, education, crime. If we reduce the number of illegal aliens, or prevent it from increasing, then that is a gain and a wall should pay for itself.
One could make the argument that illegal immigrants have economic value. As slave labor, yes, I suppose that is true. But is that what we want?
For years Repubs have ignored illegal immigration because they like cheap labor. Dems have ignored the issue because they see future democrats. But neither side can make a good argument for allowing illegal immigration to continue.
2
@Ralphie - Cite your sources for the cost. Immigrants pay taxes in addition to providing the cheap labor Americans demand. Until you have verifiable proof your assertions are just right wing talking points and they aren't worth anything.
4
Fact checking is also biased, compare your facts to these https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/01/09/fact-checking-5-of-trumps-claims-in-border-speech/
1
NYT: Let's talk about dangerous walls. Your paywall is one of the worst!! Please allow news about this crisis and this president free to all. The people who need to read and learn the truth are not the people currently paying to read this paper.
5
@JM Thank you for the comment. Our journalism takes time and resources to produce, and we couldn't create it without the support from our paying subscribers.
24
@Aidan Gardiner Thank you from a paying subscriber.
We know that Donald Trump Suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder , and his idea of building a medieval
wall conform this clinical patern. I think he dreams that one day his beautiful wall will be seeing from the moon and being considered one of the 7 wonders of the world. He could not lost this fight, the posterity is waiting for his Grandiosity.
The beloved and great people of the US does not need a Wall, all what they need is to schedule an appointment for him to see a psychiatrist. God Bless America again.
9
The "fact check" omitted the most important fact concerning heroin coming through the southern border: It is coming through legal checkpoints, NOT across wilderness areas which Trump implied. A wall would have exactly ZERO impact on this flow.
9
Let's keep this simple enough so even Trump and the people will support him can understand it, a fraudulent president made a bogus argument based on false information. There is no crisis on the Southern border except what Trump has created by separating families and incarcerating them in gulag type conditions.
9
Whenever Barack Obama felt it necessary to address the nation, he did so, and we listened intently. No one ever said, “Well, that’s another ten minutes wasted...”
5
We are just over 100 years since the end of World War I and we have learned nothing. Our polity is divided into two camps, each in its own trench, lobbing verbal grenades across the information no-man's land. Occasionally, one group crosses the wire to attempt to overwhelm the other, only to be driven back.
[WWI is still having casualties--UXO is being dug out of the fields of northern France and the low countries. There is an occupation, demineurs, who do this work, with ongoing explosions and deaths. I fear the unexploded ordnance of this political battle will have similar long-lasting effects.]
There is only one adequate, if coarse, summation to this war of words.
SSDD.
More evidence that Republicans can't govern. The party is completely handicapped by their base. As a President, Senator or Representative, your job is to keep government working, if you can't do that you don't belong in the office and doing that requires recognition that there are others who disagree with you and having the capability to work out a compromise with them. I am sure the Dems would be amenable to more agents, more judges to process asylum claims, more funds to address the humanitarian crisis, just not a dumb wall.
5
He said Mexico was going to pay for the Wall....over and over and over again!! If that had happened it would have been a victorious moment for him and his supposed deal making abilities! So far I haven't seen much Deal Making. I have seen a lot of Arrogant Bullying that hasn't resulted in much.We as individuals and as a nation are suffering for it! How he still has any supporters is beyond me. Of course some of his big name supporters like Fox News and Ann Coulter...Rush Limbaugh etc...well they make a nice living endorsing him and his policies. No matter what happens to him in the future they will continue making a living spouting twisted tales of what can only be termed..Propaganda !! Even the former head of Fox now in Trump's administration...still gets paid well..by us!! We are all paying for this in one way or another! We're paying for the Mueller Investigation....we're paying for security for Trump's golf outings..which he said he wasn't going to have time for...and the list of what we are paying for and have paid for is going and on and on ! Since he said Mexico would pay….and since his well paid endorsers support his idea...why don't they put their money where there mouths have been! They should pay for the Wall ! Americans should be in an outrage ! We don't want to pay for a Wall Mexico was to pay for! We don't want to be financially burdened by the shutdown FORCING US to have to pay !! Mr. Trump...PAY FOR YOUR OWN WALL !!
7
“I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it,” -- Donald J. Trump
"The federal government remains shut down for one reason and one reason only: because Democrats will not fund border security.” -- Donald J. Trump.
Do you need any more proof that Trump lies every second of every day, in every tweet, in every press release, in every statement by his surrogates, in every word that comes out of his mouth?
Do you need any more proof that Trump is totally, 100% incapable of negotiating with anyone in good faith, that his promises only have the value of ensuring to you that he's going to violate them, every time?
I suggest that supporters like Rand Paul, who changed his first name to match up with Ayn Rand, go back and read what SHE wrote, when John Galt tells off Mr. Trump, er, Thompson:
"That's not true," said Mr. Thompson brightly. "If you had a broken leg, you'd pay a doctor to set it."
"Not if he was the one who broke it."
He smiled at Mr. Thompson's silence.
"I'm a practical man, Mr. Thompson. I don't think it's practical to establish a person whose sole means of livelihood is the breaking of my bones. I don't think it's practical to support a protection racket."
Donald Trump keeps breaking legs and then claims credit for setting them. Ayn Rand warned us, but so-called Randians like Rand Paul and Paul Ryan continue to support this "Mr. Thompson".
Hypocrites, all of them.
11
And the beat goes one without one word about decreasing the American appetite for illegal drugs. If you consume heroin or illegally procured fentanyl, you are part of the problem.
And the beat goes on without one word about working to end the conditions in Mexico and Central American countries from which these (mostly good) people are fleeing.
And the beat goes on without one word about enforcing the laws that prohibit American businesses from employing undocumented immigrants.
Keep snorting and shooting up people, and build all the walls you want -- and the drugs will find their way to you. Keep your business humming along with those low-wage undocumented workers, and they will find their way to you. Keep sending American taxpayer dollars to corrupt politicians and nothing will change.
When will someone pipe up and admit that We The People are a big part of this problem (to the extent that it is a problem).
3
Trump famously trusts his gut. The problem with that approach is trusting your gut is only effective when you are making a decision, not when you are making plans. Trump is also famously lazy, not reading briefings for example. The briefs hold the information laying out options to make thoughtful informed decisions. The result? Trump will almost always make the wrong decision based on his gut. Hey, Mr. Mueller, that report about done yet?
2
The REAL Crisis:
America is Suffering!
There is no funding for: Foodstamps, HUD, Agriculture, or the Federal Employees
*42.2 million-Snap benefit households are families and Seniors
*1.2 million-Families and Seniors NEED HUD, and will be evicted by the end of next month.
*3.2 Million Farmers -USDA will run out of funding for Farmers by the end of the month.
*5 million-Native Americans- lose a large percentage of their funding for things like food and medical care and basic utility services.
*1 million Fed Workers- How long will people keep going to work for NO PAY?
*327 Million Americans- 12% of the IRS cannot process 327 +MILLION tax returns and get them out to people in this calendar year.(they told an outright lie to the American people)
*Keep in mind, not only are these politicians getting paid, but they are getting A 10K RAISE!
The REAL Crisis is NON-partisan and being caused by OUR OWN GOVERNMENT. Things are going to get really bad , really fast. Be prepared, all our lives are about to change if we dont tell the politicians we hired, DO YOUR JOB AND RUN OUR GOVERNMENT!
1
So biased. Where is the fact check of Chuck and Nancy? Especially their claim that "walls don't work" when the data shows the exact opposite.
2
If there is currently no wall, to what data are you referring? The Great Wall of China?
2
We know that Donald Trump Suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder , and his idea of building a medieval
wall conform this clinical patern. I think he dreams that one day his beautiful wall will be seeing from the moon and being considered one of the 7 wonders of the world. He could not this fight, the posterity is waiting for his Grandiosity.
The beloved and great people of the US does not need a Wall, all what they need is schedule an appointment for him to see a psychiatrist.
1
How many times can this be uttered and subsequently ignored?
'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.'
2
Yes citizen Trump can read a speech well written by his professional speech writers.
A wall is not invincible, where there is a will there is a way to get through. The so-called bad people have in all probability figured it out.
1
Trump has finally kept one of his campaign promises...an increase in jobs. Look at all the fact checkers the media has hired since he became president.
4
You’re not addressing several of Trump’s claims. We “welcome millions of legal immigrants”? That number is an exaggeration, and he’s trying to cut back on legal migration. How does that constitute a “proud” welcome?
I suspect much of the heroin that comes across the border is carried by American citizens or travelers with visas; at least some traveling on commercial & private planes. Etc.
4
How can we support a pouting President over a wall when he can’t release his tax returns to the public.
5
I feel most for the 800K hapless government employees who are paying the price for this madman's attempt to ram through funding by OUR tax dollars for an ineffective wall. What's so bad about this is that Republicans care far more for their party's image than the welfare of their countrymen. What if congress' salries were stopped? Would ther be a different response to this charade?
To those of you who form the minority of voters still locked by fear into supporting this madman: can you actually still be supportive of a man who sacrifices others' financial stability and welfare for his own personal gain? When do you finally stop fearing and start thinking? How much damage to our country will it take?
3
Enforce E-Verify to punish businesses which employ the undocumented. Start a guest worker program allowing the undocumented to work in the U.S. for a harvesting season for example and then have the manpower in place to ensure they leave the U.S. Enforce overstayed visa visitors. Deploy additional border protection agents. Speed up processing of those seeking asylum. A fraction of the $25 billion for trump's vanity project "wall" will pay for more effective border control.
4
E-verify isn’t available due to the government shutdown. How can the Trump administration say they are trying to protect us when they are holding a perfectly good tool hostage?
3
“If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party,” Mr. Graham said.
Ah - and the truth does come out. This is not about border security it is about the 2020 election.
There is plenty of room for compromise and problem solving on border security. Republicans and Democrats agree on that.
11
If we have such an immediate crisis on the border, why are we experiencing a shutdown over the slowest possible fix? The kind of walls Trump is proposing don't exactly go up overnight.
6
I always liked Reagan's "trust, but verify" comment.
At no time in past 20 years have we needed more than every to heed those words.
However, changing those words a bit to suit today's problems is this: "trust that you will need to verify every word that comes out of Trump's mouth."
4
Fact checks are fun, but they distract from the main fact, which is not what Trump talked about, but his use of a shutdown to take-over Congress, subverting the entire structure of our government and giving him dictatorial powers.
7
In 2016 approximately 62,979,636 voters endorsed the idea that the truth doesn't really matter. In 2019 a large majority of these voters are still not interested in the truth. Most of the GOP has currently bought into Trump wholeheartedly but I would wager they will start to distance themselves from him before the 2020 elections.
The major reputable news outlets (not Fox) are doing much better. It's not so unusual now to hear them to say he's lying rather than he made a "False Statement".
2
The fact check on Chuck Shumer's comment about millions being affected leaves out the more direct impact on contractors for these federal agencies, and other suppliers for them. That could easily double the numbers - and get us to the millions he quotes.
4
It's not only are contractors who are left out. If 800,000 workers are hurt, it's no exaggeration to assume that their household members increase that number to easily 2.4 million. And that ignores the ripple effect to small businesses like restaurants, movie theaters, dry cleaners, etc. Millions of people are indeed hurt economically by the shutdown.
1
"In November Customs and Border Protection apprehended 51,856 people trying to cross the border illegally. That’s about 1,700 per day."
OK. So, what is "misleading" about Trump's claim. It seems perfectly accurate.
PS. I am totally against the wall, but still...
2
Our democracy does not work with ultimatums - "give me $5.7 billion for a wall or a shut down the government". We elect people to congress to consider legislation. Experts testify, analysis is done, and a vote is taken. The congress may or may not approve a presidential request. Nowhere do we get a situation where one side will hold the other hostage. It's not a democratic process. Then, for Trump to go on TV, throw out untruths, and throw innocent people under the bus to get his way is wrong, wrong, wrong. We don't work that way. Except in the minds of defacto senior officials Hannity, Coulter and Rushblab.
2
What is being missed is that most drug addiction in this country - and the vast majority of overdose deaths - are as a result of doctor-prescribed prescription drug medications made in the USA but US companies like Purdue (makers of Oxycontin).
Even if all the drugs from China and Mexico stopped tomorrow, we would still be losing 150 people a day to prescription opioid deaths.
Trump promised to do something about this - he has done nothing. The $5bn would be far better diverted to programs to jail doctors who overprescribe, treat addicts, and fund pain research.
3
The cost and consequences of this shutdown are not adequately addressed. Large numbers of contract employees who will never be reimbursed should be estimated and added to the 800,000 government employees that are suddenly out of work. The cost to reopen government should be estimated as it is significant. Lost productivity should be estimated. The impact through loss of trained, experienced personnel, government and contract, who will leave their positions for other permanent jobs should be discussed. While some of these impacts have been communicated, they deserve more attention.
The full impact of Trump’s holding the American people hostage to his campaign promise, based on hysteria inducing, unsupportable rhetoric should be made very clear.
6
It would be easier to have truth checks of everything The Con Don does not lie about. It would be a very short list because every word that comes out of his mouth - or he tweets - is a lie.
Thanks for trying NY Times and other media. The best thing is to give Speaker Pelosi the time. Stop going to the intermittent "press briefings" that are only lie sessions. Send one representative for all of you. Do not give him anymore "prime time". His groupies can get all the propaganda they need from fox so-called news and hate radio.
Time to wrap up the criminal enterprise he is running. Please spend your time investigating that and truly informing WE THE PEOPLE of the thousands of ways they are changing OUR laws and raiding OUR government money for personal gain. Either people in power in politics, law and military will do it or WE THE PEOPLE will take matter into our own hands. This is not a frat party. It's not a football game. It's OUR lives and WE will not allow them to be destroyed again.
Not now. Not ever. That's a promise.
16
Have to admit I snoozed off just before his public appearance, but considering he had nothing new, sticking to the same old rhetoric, it's clear I didn't miss anything.
What is clear is that neither side is willing to compromise or give an inch, so the entire issue is in limbo status.
I'm not a fan of a border wall to fence us in to keep illegals out, and believe there are other workable, reliable security measures to protect our borders without taking personal property from homeowners along that nearly 2,000 mile long barrier.
11
President Trump says a steel barrier is the only solution to prevent illegal immigration along our U.S.-Mexico border. Speaker Pelosi and Sen. Schumer say Trump is manufacturing a crisis where no crisis exists.
A comprehensive, unbiased analysis is needed that identifies the need for a wall and the pros/cons of building a wall vs. simply maintaining the current fence system.
Various questions need to be answered, including:
Is there any increased security provided by building a wall?
Are there technological solutions (cameras; sensing devices; other electronic systems) that are less expensive than a wall that would provide a similar degree of border security?
What are the overall costs to build and maintain a steel wall over the entire border and/or over a significant portion of the border where illegal crossings have been shown to regularly occur?
Would border patrolling still be needed to maintain border security?
How would tunneling and climbing over be prevented by building a wall?
Would increased border patrolling provide sufficient border security at a lower cost than a wall?
These and other questions need to be answered, backed up with data developed in a scientifically rigorous manner, before the administration will be able to convince Congress, the Senate, and the country on the immediate need to invest billions of our tax dollars towards building a border wall.
14
@Ed - You are 100% right: where is the cost benefit analysis? What exactly are the pros and cons? Why aren't the Dems focused on defending their stance against the wall? Why is this only the most shallow political rhetoric, without substance? Why the hysteria where there should be facts and data? Shame on both sides.
2
Various experts have weighed in on many of these questions. The answers speak to the near useless and resource-wasting effects of a concrete barrier. In other words, the idea of a wall is fanciful and symbolic but not in the least practical. The problem isn’t that studies aren’t done; the problem isn’t that immigration laws and procedures aren’t being proposed. The problem is that clear-headed analysis and solution-oriented recommendations can’t break through the fear-mongering promoted by the person in the WH. That’s not just sad; it’s dangerous.
3
this would involve real facts and doing some research...too complicated.
1
One thing became very obvious in Trump's speech which we've all been wondering about. He can indeed read.
12
@JIM*** he probably went over it numerous times. Plus I have read & heard they have to put his name in red every few lines to keep his mind from drifting. Even then he still sounded like a 4th grader.
3
When will the discussion on a wall for the Canadian border start? Quoting the article 'fentanyl enters the United States from packages mailed directly from China through traditional ports of entry, according to the report, and through Canada from China.' Border security means all borders are secure including airports where people enter with a temp visa and then disappear.
13
Donald Trump was 'presidential' as only Trump can be. He spoke to all of America that matters to him: the ones who wear MAGA hats.
For the rest of us it was an amazing display of two dimensional presentation. Truly, a recorded message with a cardboard cutout would have been as compelling, and as for content -- why did we need to have our shows interrupted to listen to Trump rehash the same old mix of petty complaints and lies he's been spewing for the last two weeks?
I suspect the networks will think twice before they put Trump on again. And Donald... your reality TV career is dead. After last night's performance disaster, well, there's an old line that's often quoted in Hollywood: "You'll never work in this town again!"
Imagine our relief.
26
Wouldn’t it be more economical to fact-check by reporting the things he said that were true?
Thought mind you that might fail to make the word count required for a full article.
6
The Republicans controlled all levers of government up until a few days ago and never passed a spending bill for Trumps wall? Because even they know it is a stupid idea that won’t cost 5 billion but more like 20 billion plus and a massive unknown number per year on maintenance. Also they surly know that the optics of siezing land from hard core conservative Republican land owners in the southwest could begin flipping some of these states blue.
17
“Most heroin smuggled into the United States does come through the southwest border, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration’s latest National Drug Threat Assessment report......
But most fentanyl enters the United States from packages mailed directly from China through traditional ports of entry, according to the report, and through Canada from China.”
Well, which is it, southwest border or China??
5
Both are true. Fentanyl is the key contributor to the opioid epidemic, not heroine.
1
It's as simple as knowing that the Great Wall did not save China and the French Maginot Line did not save France. It's a 5th century solution to a problem that is not a crisis and it fails to take into account that there are a lot of smart people out there with 21st century tools that will make it moot. It's only purpose is to satisfy Trump's ego, that is it. Allocate 5 billion for border security but spend it intelligently, not on a stupid monument to Trump that will prove to be a waste.
16
5 billion is nothing for the US government, especially since these Dems thought it was a great idea just a couple of years ago.
Fund the wall and move on!
5
How about improve our infrastructure across the country, educate our children, and maybe even fund an international style health care system? We could fund much of those items fully to increase the well being of all the American people, rather than fund some capricious unneeded vanity project wall. And remember, we were never supposed to pay for the wall to begin with, that was Mexico’s job. You MAGA people have a short memory.
4
If you think the wall costs will be covered by 5b, I have a proverbial bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
2
@There
If you think 5 billion is nothing for the American people to pay, why don't you fund the wall and move on!
3
Do illegal immigrants really take jobs that Americans do not want ? If wages were fair for those jobs, perhaps Americans would want to do them. I have always taken this accepted statement with much doubt. I would like a fact check on this assertion.
10
Let’s use crop collection as an example. Americans don’t want to do that work, even at minimum wage. You’d have to offer a living wage to get people to do those jobs.
The Republican platform is to not provide a living wage. If they supported this the minimum wage wouldn’t be way below the poverty line.
12
We reside in the land of Trump OZ. He is the raging effigy controlled by his underlings who speak hate to his ear having done so for years resulting in a Trump who is now brainwashed by his own people. Trump is more open minded than you think and that reality is being taken advantage by Stephen Miller, Kellyanne Conway, Ann Coulter and other influential people who have brainwashed Trump into a grumbling White Supremacist when just a few years ago, he was only mildly bigoted.
Kellyanne Conway once consulted to the Suffolk County Long Island County Executive Steve Levy who decades ago created an air of immigrant hatred claiming they were wrongly burdening public services. Now Ms. Conway consults to Trump along with others and likely fills his ear with immigrant issues.
Ann Coulter must recognize how easily Trump is manipulated. Miller works unwatched behind the curtain.
Trump is open minded, a normally good trait, but in this case, he is being manipulated by it. He has good managerial skills in which he delegates authority and takes advice from subordinates, but, too much. His managerial education has left him vulnerable to the hatred and influence of others such that he delegates his thinking as well. He spent his whole life doing this. He is an unwitting puppet being kept angry so he complies.
I heard you Trump, now you hear me. I am saving you to save many. Rethink what you believe, stop your anger and think deeper. You were taught to hate and you can change that.
1
Is he really open-minded, or is he more empty-minded? He may not be any smarter than his feckless daughter Ivanka.
2
Open-minded? Sir, you err. His mind is open to one thing- himself.
For once let us solve the massive illegal immigration problem that has persisted over many years! Both parties have ignored it for years. Trump lies and exaggerates, but the illegal immigration problem is real! Fact check: Last year there were about 400,000 illegal crossings. A year before that the number was over million crossings.
8
I did not watch Trump's plea from the Oval office. I knew it would be more of the same lies and obfuscation from a man who was trained in the art of lying in the service of power.
What strikes me is his cynical comment describing the plight of illegal immigrants yearning to breathe free. Their suffering is a direct result of the arbitrary application of detention through separation of any families crossing the border requesting asylum by his own administration.
So, we are in a government shutdown due to a corrupt administration with mistaken policies to a problem of their own making.
I did not vote for Trump, because I knew you cannot get good fruit from a rotten tree. I pray all Americans have this epiphany before the next presidential election in 2020.
12
Media outlets should remember last night's performance the next time the President asks for air time. This non-emergency was simply a ploy to get his face back on television rather than present information about a national emergency. This charade was the launch of his 2020 campaign and the major networks fell for it. Maybe next time they won't be so easily duped.
13
In 2006 John McCain and a bi-partisan group of legislators proposed an immigration solution to update the seriously messed up system. Had that passed this wouldn’t be happening. In refusing to deal with immigration in a proactive way (to appease the GOP base), the party has sewn a whirlwind. Building a wall isn’t even on the same planet as the immigration issue which is what ultimately needs a solution.
8
Luckily there is the New York Times that keeps us sane and objective. Thanks for the article!
4
The key phrase is "This requires context". As does everything in life. Nothing is ever black or white. There are many sides to a story. Calling someone a liar is saying that things are either true or false, boolean logic. The world is not a computer. Congress authorizes billions for unending wars but cant give 5 Billion for a wall ? Nonsense.
7
He’s on TV because he discovered China has a wall and he wants one.
8
Hard hitting journalism indeed. Trump offered almost entirely lies, falsehoods, and irrelevant issues as he repeated everything he's already stated without budging an inch (it was always steel not a Dem request) as he demands we compromise by doing what he says. There. Summarized in 1 sentence.
4
It is glaringly obvious Don Trump enjoys making others hate as he does.
7
Dear Congress,
Please open our government. When our government is closed, we don't have a country. Give the President the money and open our country. Our citizens need their government to be at work.
Your loyal taxpayer,
Mike
5
In other words, pay to release the hostages. Pay the kidnapper. Smart.
1
The problem with all these fact checkers is they are irrelevant as long as Trump's checkers and critics fail to acknowledge one central truth: There is indeed a border problem and only Trump is willing to do something about it.
7
Dear Mr. Trump.
Facts are still relevant and unfortunately you offered none, so therefore, you are irrelevant!
7
This is a manufactured crises. Illegal immigration is at a low point compared to the years before the O'Bama administration. That administration had the highest rate of capturing and deporting illegal aliens in the history of this country. Trump created this issue during the campaign to tap and channel the inchoate anger of the Republican base for his own political gain. Now he's made a core campaign promise to solve a problem that is not nearly as dire as he claims and he will not back-off it or he will anger his base. However, he has mismanaged this government so badly I don't see him being elected again and the Republicans know this. His unwillingness to own this shut-down is typical of the prevarications he has become famous for. This despite him admitting on TV to Chuck Schumer and Pelosi that he would "own" the shutdown.
7
400,000 might be a low but it is 400,000 more than some people are comfortable with since it is against the law. 20 million illegal aliens is not a manufactured crisis. At what point does it become too much?
Ask yourself at what point does the US stop destabilizing other countries that result in thousands of refugees who fear for their lives to the degree that they walk thousands of miles to our border to ask for asylum. Yes, there are those who come solely for economic reasons, but that can also be attributed in part to US economic policies in other parts of the world.
Something else to consider: if the countries people are fleeing were politically and economically stable, do you really think so many would be leaving their homes?
1
As much as I dislike Trump, and the Republican members of Congress who do not seem to remember honor, ethics, their sworn oath, serving their constituents or checking the Executive, which is their job ...
As much as I am uncomfortable with the more cruel vibe in American social life, the okay-ness of racism, sexism, xenophobia, anti-anything that is not white, Christian and straight...
I really cannot believe that this president was elected by Americans. How did we become so disinterested in the truth, so vicious, uncaring about not just democracy, but of each other.
The 40% of people who believed Trump's disinformation campaign, who only follow Fox News, who believe the poor and middle class are undeserving of a hand up, or who perhaps are making out like bandits with their enormous tax break, elected him.
The people who stayed home and didn't vote elected him.
This fake national security crisis at the border, in the name of racism, and which began as a simple mnemonic -- "wall" -- for a candidate who kept forgetting to talk about immigration, became a reality for Trump. Yet 48% of voters chose him, and the rest stayed home.
We have ourselves to blame for the debacle that is this Administration. Trump is not very intelligent, is a drama queen, and is dangerous and corrupt. What's wrong with us that we chose the worst leader for the country?
21
Why is this called a shutdown, when it really is a mix of a lockout and forcing people to work without pay?
Can you imagine the president of a company shutting it down because the board refuses to get him a new corporate jet? I cannot. Such an action is absurd because it damages the interests of the company.
So, why is it that a shutdown in politics is seen as acceptable by some?
15
Nothing new, actually nothing worth watching. It was a rehash of the same lies, appeals to fear and prejudice, as well as taking advantage of the widespread disinformation and just plain non-information regarding illegal immigration. Terrible stories, meant for a horror movie. The purpose is to make people think that violent crime and murders in the US are the result of "illegals". Basically what he stated during his campaign. Not being in control of foreign policy anymore, it's pathetic how all Mr. Trump has left is to argue in favor of 5.7 billion for his wall. The worst part is nothing has changed: more partisan bickering, creating a crisis where none exists etc. etc.
7
Trump claims to be a great negotiator. Did he fails to negotiate with Mexico to pay for his beautiful wall. During 2016 campaign, he repeatedly bellowed and lied that no US tax payer will pay for his wall.
8
Why do we need a wall when we have Space Force? Can't they use a Space Wall or something?
7
No need to fact check Trump. I just assume Trump lies about everything because that has been proven.
4
"'If we undercut the president, that's the end of his presidency and the end of our party,' Mr. Graham said..."
Is there any chance America and the planet could be so lucky?
13
Maybe the Trump & the GOP should have scaled back on last year’s tax cuts and applied some of that $1 Trillion they were determined to add to the national debt to pay for the Great Wall.
Putin has deep pockets. Maybe he’ll spring for it.
9
He made the midterms into a referendum on him and his wall. And by a nearly 10 million vote margin, voters for a new Congress said No. There's no better gauge of what Americans want and it's not this wall. It is indeed ineffective and immoral in the following senses:
Even a former acting director of ICE says a wall along the southern border would be ineffective and wasteful spending; border security would be enhanced by so many other measures, that Democrats support, not by a wall. Even Schumer's now exhumed 2006 vote for the Fences Act was a vote for strategic fencing, not a wall (by whatever name).
And just one more of his lies within his speech: Democrats made no such request for a switch from concrete to steel as he claims. The reason is that it's the concept, not the material, of a continuous wall across our entire southern border, such as Trump has pinned his ego on, that is the problem: Beyond being ineffective, it is immoral - in the same way that the Statue of Liberty ("give me your tired, your poor") is a moral symbol of a United States still true to its founding precepts as a refuge for the oppressed, back then from Europe, now from Central America.
Instead this wall may best be comprehended as Trump's latest fantasy of a 'trophy wife' – a 'trophy monument' that he has already pseudo-offhandedly posited on camera would probably be called "Trump's Wall." The wall, like everything else he touches and voices, is ultimately all and only about him.
11
"While millions of Americans are not being directly harmed"
The FDA has said it will be cutting way back on food safety checks. I'm in fragile health. This could hospitalize me or kill me. One listeria outbreak now in my area, with no oversight or good communication to catch it early, is dangerous.
The IRS won't be helping anyone prepare taxes until the shutdown is over, and then they'll be overworked with the backlog.
There is a trash, sewage, and dumping crisis growing with every day that National Parks are not being maintained. Criminal activity is being supported by this Presidential tantrum. Even violent criminals. Murderers dump bodies in wooded areas and National Parks are now even more un patrolled than before.
When talking of health inspections, the HHS is already lax in its oversight of nursing homes. It's now at a standstill. Call your local Ombudsman and find out. Ask what impact it will have on mortality and neglect of our elders.
There is no "most people don't care" when it comes to the government. That's what keeps us from living in a landscape of scams and negligence. Except under this Administration, who treats government as a throwaway concept because it doesn't even understand it.
8
Everything that can be said about this wall and it's problems and the cost has been said. Precious hours and days go by as a few, then a few more, then finally enough repubs decide to join the dems and reopen the government. The wall will be solved.
More important, unless he leads this rejection of Trump absent Mitch will see his influence wane. The republican party will suffer as it is rebuilt. If it happens soon they might come up with an alternative to Trump in 2020.
I am a progressive who is not so happy with the dems either. We need a third party; middle of the road, attractive to members of both parties. What remains of the repubs becomes the right, what remains of the dems becomes the left. Legislation will require true coalition building.
A few other changes:
Electoral votes awarded proportionally to popular vote.
Term limits for members of congress.
Extremely limited lobbying.
Federal oversight of national elections.
Election day a national holiday.
Vastly improved public school education in 'civics'.
Call me a dreamer, but nothing substantial will happen to improve our 'national discourse' without major change.
Much as I detest Trump, he is so blatant and clueless that we can no longer fool ourselves or hope, like a bad odor, it will go away.
Imagine someone really smart, surreptitious, crafty and totally knowledgeable of our system who wants to destroy it.
We have work to do.
3
@CD: Something wrong here... "Progressive..." But "middle of the road...?"
But yes: voting becomes a national holiday etc. Isn't this already in draft Democratic Party legislation?
3
@Des Johnson
Yes; I'm a progressive, but I also understand that 'middle of the road' works for some. The mix is what works.
Yes, some of these points have been proposed; I don't pretend to have invented any of it.
Thanks for paying attention!
1
@CD One amendment: Not a full-day 'holiday' but a mandatory 4-hour paid leave, taken at the worker's discretion when he/she informs her/his boss. That works just fine.
Donald Trump is desperate. We all need the government reopened. Democrats should cut a deal. A king's ransom for American union workers building the wall during the next recession when the economy needs the jobs.
3
There was a time when Lindsey Graham was a pretty good Senator. At least he was correct that it took over 2 years for
Trump to LOOK Presidential. The fact he did not say he IS
Presidential tells us a lot. He was also honest when he said in effect that Trump is killing the Republican party. Actually, what is killing the Republican party is their support for Trump-or should I say Individual 1-the co-conspirator. If you support a known criminal you will be tarred with his character-look at all the people who have been charged with crimes or pleaded guilty because of their relationship with Trump. The latter does not even included those who have left his administration in disgust. So, for Lindsey Graham I really feel sorry for him because he probably just started down the road to lose of his Senate seat.
4
Feel sorry for Graham? How can anyone possibly feel sorry for any of these rascals? Term-limits? Do I hear term-limits?
There is a national emergency, this is true.
Too many drugs, like marijuana, are flowing across our border.
Too many leftist, socialist ideas are sneaking across our border.
Two many non citizens are crossing our border and taking good jobs from American citizens.
We need a good solid wall across our northern border to keep out, or at least slow down, the hoards of Canadians with their socialistic ideas of universal free health care which corrupts our profit making insurance corporations and demeans their bottom line. They're taking over all the good acting jobs in drama series, and especially the comedy shows (you can't throw a pie on the set of SNL without hitting at least two or three Canadians).
There are too many Canadians coming here and spewing their niceness all over the place, with no regard as to how it makes us true, patriotic Americans feel bad about ourselves. It has to STOP!
And the cost of such a beautiful wall, it's so beneficial to our national treasury's coffers. Everyone knows how the exchange rate is in our favor. Just look at the inside cover of any new hardcover book: $19.95 US, $26.95 Canadian.
13
Wow, in the interest of trying to appear impartial, though only one side of this debate has an unprecedented history of making false statements, they’ve “fact-checked” Schumer’s statement that “millions” of Americans are being hurt and concluded that “context is needed. The “context”? An estimated 800,000 federal workers are impacted. The fact-check needs context. There are a lot more people being hurt than just federal workers. And by the way, I know several federal workers who have 4 and 5 person households. So even if you limited the harm to that narrow definition, the fact check is still wrong.
3
The most interesting tidbit in this article is Graham's comment about Trump's presidency, that this wall issue is a make or break moment for him and his chances in 2020. I am constantly amazed that Republicans leaders like Graham who seems like an intelligent guy, can continue to support someone who is so obviously deeply flawed in many ways and should not be POTUS. I understand fighting for issues they believe in, but his comment was not to back the wall, it was to back the President. The two are quite different and unfortunately Graham has aligned himself with this horrible President.
7
After two years of the Oval Office as circus, his intellectual stature, depth of thought and preoccupations more than evident, it is pretty plain why Trump wants the wall. It will be longer, bigger, stronger, more expensive than all Trump International Plaza Hotel Resort Golf Clubs combined. A tremendous monument to myself, as the inheritor of Jefferson and Lincoln would put it.
2
The president's handlers at Fox News told him build the wall or you're fired. He's not concerned about the government or the people it serves, but if Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter are unhappy, the president is very unhappy. If he can't count on the support of TWC (Trump Worship Channel) where can he turn?
8
Trump's claims of a crisis with illegal immigration at the border, if accurate only prove his own incompetence and negligence. He's been President for two years and has been allocated billions of dollars for border security and hasn't used it. He hasn't added a single mile of fencing and has failed to fill thousands of open positions for border security personnel. Trump himself created the humanitarian crisis at the border by taking away children of parents legally requesting asylum and entry at the border, and allowing those children to suffer and die in custody. And his refusal to fund the government creates another humanitarian crisis, affecting millions of US citizens.
6
I want to point out the illegal immigrants stealing American jobs. The writer states that the illegal immigrants only seek jobs American workers won't do. This is not a true fact. The illegal immigrants will do the job a lot cheaper than an American worker would. American workers would expect wages reflective with the work involved. This allows the illegal immigrant's to be taken advantage of and does take jobs away from the American Workers.
5
This extremely expensive reality show that the networks continue to broadcast doesn't have the ratings to justify airing it.
6
He wants to become more rich. Probably, he wants to engage some of his "firms" to build the wall, thereby gaining more profit. His company has built lots of walls (building). He is RICH, he does not care that so many government workers are not payed. He does not know what that means, not being paid, SAID!
1
Trump’s administration has so far spent just 6% of the $1.6 billion allocated for any physical barrier upgrades on the southern border in the fiscal 2017 and 2018 budgets. If this is such a crisis, why did the Republicans fail to do anything about it beyond siezing and imprisoning children?
Tonight's 'national crisis' speech is another deflection from his failure to effectively utilize funds already received.
Dems agree we should improve border security. They may think that a wall is a costly and inefficient way to secure the border, but there is nothing inherently wrong with a wall. He's desperate to keep this 'promise' to prop up his failing administration, so give it to him. He'll never be able to build it at this rate anyway. So go big. Exchange it for Dreamers, for his tax returns, for legal status for the other 11 million people in the country illegally. Include shoring up Obamacare, lowering the cost of prescription drugs and Medicare-for-all. Make him agree to modifying his tax cuts, increasing the minimum wage, strengthening environmental rules, tackling global climate change and enacting paid family leave. The possibilities are endless. Democrats can use the wall as leverage for all of it. Don't waste this opportunity.
5
"In many cases, immigrants — legal or illegal — are seeking jobs that American citizens do not want to do." You forgot to add, "at the lousy wages offered." American citizens have proven themselves adept at doing pretty much anything for a living, as long as the wage offered is high enough. As a thought experiment, say picking lettuce paid $75 an hour with full benefits. (Less than some relatively humble jobs pay, as anyone who's had their cars repaired recently knows.) Would we really have a "labor shortage" then?
2
At $75 an hour for farm hands, the farmer would never be able to make a profit selling lettuce, so he wouldn't bother planting it. Economics is an actual "thing". When Alabama attempted a crackdown on the hiring of undocumented workers a few years ago, and offered minimum wages to US workers to pick produce, the produce rotted on the vine. Even with a bus ride to the farm thrown in for free, they couldn't get enough people to do back breaking work in the hot sun all day.
I am 100% behind President Trump. We do need more effective border security. And some kind of barrier might help. Period.
3
I thought the Senate was an independent body, intended to oversee government operations and implement laws. Mitch McConnell seems to believe the Senate works for the president.
13
If President Trump is so concerned about illegal immigration hurting the nation, why does he not start with a categorical assurance that he will ensure that no illegal immigrants are employed in his businesses?
That's because his business 'empire' is in some of the sectors which benefit most from cheap, low-skilled labour, doing jobs at pay levels below those for which most Americans are prepared to work.
Like it or not, cheap immigrant labour helps enable production and services at a competitive level, stimulating economic growth, and helping provide the quality of life that many American citizens right across the employment spectrum take for granted.
6
A wall of any type will not work. People will just go under, over or around it. We need to change our immigration laws and enforce them. If a baby is born here it should not receive citizenship if the parents are here illegally. Provide work Visas for those who want to work here on a seasonal basis and make them next to impossible to counterfeit and do the same with social security cards and any form of identification cards, the same as we do with our currency. A social Security card is just printed on card stock with no hologram or anything to make it difficulty to duplicate. This is ridiculous. We make it so easy for people here illegally from any country to create false identifications. Do not provide free medical care, education, etc. to those that are here illegally. We as a country cannot afford to do this when we cannot afford to provide healthcare and a decent education to our own citizens. Spend the billions of dollars for the wall on medical care, infrastructure and programs that will benefit the citizens of our own country.
4
Trump: "I will never forget the pain in their eyes, the tremble in their voices, and the sadness gripping their souls. How much more American blood must we shed before congress does its job?"
How is this different from "how many more students have to die in their schools before we have sensible gun control laws?"
16
I’m surprised that nobody’s called the Democrats out on the fact that the shutdown has already cost taxpayers more than the $5.7 billion requested. There is no good argument against the wall other than the money and clearly it is t about the money. Once the dust settles Democrats will own the shutdown more than they think.
2
If they give in, what’s to stop Trump from using the same tactic again and undermine the balance of our three governmental branches? How do you know it’s cost this much?
8
Daniel,
The wall Trump and his minions are proposing will not solve the actual problems of illegal immigration or drugs crossing our borders. So your proposal is to spend the money anyway?
7
While we should appreciate the truth-telling media's breathless dedication to researching and airing the facts, I worry that the obsessive, in-the-moment reporting here is taking attention away from a far more consequential, if less obvious, point -- the 2020 election is underway and all of the major networks interrupted their regular programming to broadcast this vile con artist's first reelection campaign speech free to millions of voters across the country.
56
The “vile con artist,” happens to be President, okay, due in large part to the good guys’ laziness, squabbling and indifference.
Let’s stop agreeing with Trump, okay?
1
In terms of the opioid crisis General Kelly stated treating the demand was strategically more effective than a wall.
22
So, what the democrats are saying is this...'We think he is lying because he is not nice'.
The US congress spends $1 Billion every 8 days in Afghanistan 'today' with the intent of securing it's borders. This, knowing full well that it's southern border has been just 'open'. Not to mention the $1 Trillion it has already spent on the war on drugs and the $2.4 Trillion it has spent on the Iraq war to keep America safe. And they can't find $5 Billion to build a barrier that has been known for illegal crossings? Come on!
This is not anti-wall. This is anti-Trump. And as much as he is a master fake-story teller, facts are facts. An open border that lets illegal immigrants in is not good for the country and the immigrants. Just make them come through proper channels. Simple. It is the right thing to do.
10
No, we *know* he is lying because he is a liar.
Big difference, and how could you miss it?
6
We do not have an open border. Nobody wants an open border. Cliches are not answers.
And arguing that hey, we’ve already wasted a tril or so, let’s throw away some more, is just plain silly.
6
Ram,
US troops are not in Afghanistan to protect their borders. It is to help their own people create a safer environment to rebuild their country.
2
Today’s GOP reality show performance had the feel of an imperial court...an emperor being served by eunichs.
13
““If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party,” Mr. Graham said”. Finally, a solution to our Nation’s nightmare.
68
Senator Lindsey Graham said that he had never seen Trump behave in such a presidential manner. Reality check: Trump was his same old demagogic self, fomenting fear, division, exaggerations and outright lies to address a problem that he created. Trump's claim that the new trade deal with Mexico will pay for the wall is risible. Show me the pesos. Graham's remarks reflect what low standards he has for the country's chief executive.
37
Graham may have a point, considering Trump’s track record. Similarly one may say little Jimmy is being a big boy, because little Jimmy hasn’t set fire to the cat so far today.
2
Whole Grains,
Good point. Senator Graham's statement was made ludicrous by Trump's off the record confession that his staff was making him do the speech, even though it won't work. Yeah, real Presidential!
3
@joe parrott Trump's staff or Putin? Putin has disruptive plans for the United States.
I think Lindsay Graham is clearly sabotaging Trump. He announces that if Trump backs down on the border wall, it will be the end of the Trump presidency. Well, Trump has already backed down by only asking for 5 billion, and he is not likely to get even that amount. Graham only underscores an already apparent defeat and assigns it a meaning, that is the end of Trump's effectiveness and his presidency. So, if Graham is a friend, I would dread to think of what an enemy would be like. A friend would have advised Trump to compromise, wait for another day to fight for the border wall and get those federal employees back to work.
13
Donald Trump is once again spreading fear and lies, and manufacturing a phony border crisis. It keeps his base amped up. And sure does distract from the tightening noose of the Mueller investigation, doesn't it?
Remember his inauguration speech, when he vowed to end "American carnage"? This is grotesque.
I can't decide what is more disgusting -- that he says this stuff, or that sycophants like Lindsey Graham back him up?
20
Trump loves to use anecdotes about illegal immigrants raping and killing Americans, and these stories are no doubt persuasive for some people, especially the statistically challenged. How about countering with other anecdotes, of illegal immigrants saving American lives and doing noble or heroic things? There are no doubt many examples out there. But then--and this is important-- make the point that these anecdotes are no more an argument for more open borders than the rape and murder stories are an argument for more draconian immigration policies.
18
The biggest crisis facing us right now is EITHER that our president, our top representative, actually seems to think the hatred we have for "other" Americans is grounded in any real, on-the-ground situation or debate OR that journalists have to fact-check a sitting president's address as if it were a campaign speech. Anyway, this is an example why the press is a friend of "the people," all the people, right and left.
8
I am not aware of any developed country other than the United States, which has such a high proportion of illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants make up 3% of the workforce in America. This number is unmatched anywhere in the world. Recently, about 50 illegal immigrants tried to land in Britain using boats via France. This was condemned by all political parties. Australia will now allow people a path to legal immigration if they come to Australia illegally. The Irish are shocked when reports surfaced that 0.3% of the workforce in Ireland consisted of illegal immigrant. Illegal entries may be at a low, but the problem has not gone away. Like other developed nations, we should ensure that illegal immigration rate is kept extremely low. Why not attempt to have fewer than 10,000 illegal immigrant entries per year?
America releases illegal immigrants-typically families with children, while they are awaiting asylum proceedings. 98% of them are never deported.
There is no illegal immigration without committing tax and Social Security Fraud. An illegal immigrant who uses someone else's Social Securty card, is increasng the benefits payable to that worker. Some illegal immigrants pay the American citizen whose SSN they use, 20% of their wages for "taxes", ending up getting income below minimum wage. Illegal immigrants working for cash are avoiding payment of payroll and income taxes.
7
We have more immigrants than any other country, period. Legal and illegal. We have vast borders and thousands of miles of coastline. America will never be hermetically sealed. Lots of people will always come in illegally. We have managed this, well and badly, for centuries. Lighten up.
1
Mexico has a higher proportion of illegal immigration. Remember, the people from Central America are coming “through” Mexico and the US does not receive most of them.
With that said, I’m perplexed as to why everyone is focused on the southern border if they’re serious about stopping the flow of “illegal immigration”. The number of Asian illegal immigrants (as well as European, African, South American) is quite high. They’re not walking or swimming across. The illegal immigration hole is the airports and the only way to patch that is not via a wall, it is by enforcement of labor laws.
It’s time to end the idiocy of this whole debate and either fix the problem for real or move on.
1
Las Vegas Shooter - not an immigrant.
Sandy Hook Shooter - not an immigrant.
Parkland Shooter - not an immigrant.
Charleston Church Shooter - not an immigrant.
Aurora Movie Theater Shooter - not an immigrant.
Gabby Giffords Shooter - not an immigrant.
36
I think this is where Democrats started losing the 2020 election.
Besides the high phrases that symbol of America should be the Statue of Liberty, they do not offer any real solutions.
We are dealing here with a very particular situation, where illegal immigrants trying to get illegally in the Country. Some of them are criminals and some are gang members. Is anyone’s life worth the political future of a politician? Should gang member kill your relative, would it make a day for a Democratic senator who sticks with the right direction of wind that is blowing now in its party?
Think about it. I’m 100% agree with the president that our borders must be protected at any cost.
4
Do you really mean at "any" cost? For example, at the cost of honesty, or national self respect, or the rights of ourselves or others, or at the cost of other national needs, or at the cost of immigrants' lives? Really? At "any cost?"
And what do though mean by "protected," as in, where does that end?
5
Problem 1: "at any cost".
Problem 2: a wall would be ineffective.
Hysteria-driven extreme measures that don't address the actual problem are better avoided.
6
There are real problems that need cost effective solutions. Trump's wall is an expensive symbol rather than a practical solution.
5
The people walking to our border are seeking jobs that will feed themselves or their families; they will take whatever job "real Americans" won't. The people taking American jobs (that actually pay a good wage) are entering for education, then permanent resident status or work visas, then citizenship. If you really want to save American jobs, then educate Americans without leaving them with mountainous debt.
8
Thirty-two and a half years ago the Republican President, Ronald Reagan, called on the Soviet Union to “Tear down that wall”. Is America under President Trump now to be the embodiment of the ‘Evil Empire’ he referenced?
15
As long as the President was selective in his response to deaths, violence, opiates, addiction...he was being less than honest. We had violence when protester was ran over by a car, we have had gun violence in America perpetrated by Americans that reek terror in the public places where we assemble. Until gun deaths are addressed this concern with violence is disingenuous and using the deaths of select individuals as pawns. As long as Mr. Trump fails to fault the pharmaceutical industry and the Sackers and Purdue Pharmaceuticals for opiate addiction and death, he is being disingenuous. I do not appreciate selective outrage to push forth his agenda. We always need border security, this moment is no more a threat than others, and never has a wall been the only solution to security. There is no compromise with Mr. Trump. Also he failed to honor his word in former compromises, bills passed and agreements made. When his word is meaningless to the Democrats he is working with, why would they agree to anything without their demands being met to show good faith. Yet, Mr. Trump will not reopen the government while the deal is being debated in the houses of Congress. Mr. Trump is pushing for a way to circumvent the Constitution and Congressional power as the legislative body aside from the Executive Branch. I see through this and it will not work with Congresswoman Pelosi and Senator Schumer. Once burned, twice burned..what do you think they should do?
8
Most of the drugs do not come over the existing fences or across open border, most are smuggled illegally through the legal checkpoints.
Most of the people do not come over the existing fences or across open border, most just overstay their legal visas.
Trump is not able to catch and prosecute the American business owners who are hiring the illegal aliens. The Illegals would leave if they had no jobs.
Trump is not spending the money already budgeted for police, patrols, and enforcement. So he is now letting down our guard.
12
So true. If we would prosecute and/or fine employers for employing undocumented folks, there would be no jobs for someone to come here for. Many of the employers are either knowingly employing them under false documents or underpaying taxes. The
4
I have to keep thinking of a phrase used many years back by Joni Mitchell in her song "Conversation":
"He speaks in sorry semtences, miraculous repentances... I don't believe him:"
Did she in fact meet Mr Trump back then?
8
It should be noted that this pseudo crisis is about more than Trump's wall. He not only needs to distract us from the Mueller investigation, but also to deflect attention from his incompetence as a leader and to stoke the flames of racism and xenophobia burning within his base. His biggest fear is that not getting the wall will cause him to lose his fans and any chance of re-election.
On another note, if the Democrats want to end the shut down they need to inconvenience the donor class. Imagine how quickly the government would get funded if all corporate jets were grounded because of TSA and FAA staffing issues. Just a thought.
17
actually, where is the urgency? ending the shutdown is the urgency. let's talk about border security later. priorities Mr Trump, let's focus on priorities.
18
Not only is Don Trump a hate filled bigot, but he tried to generate resentment in Blacks as he told them Hispanics were taking their jobs. That was a sermon of a devilish mind.
18
Let’s cut through the nonsense and stick to some common sense analysis.
If the real goal of any of this is to reduce illegal trespass through the southern border, then all a fence (it’s not even a wall anymore) will do is slow some people down. If you’ve just trekked thousands of miles on foot, suffered every humiliation, assault, risk and form of vile attack in pursuit of a dream, do you honestly think a fence will stop you?
So now let’s talk about the “criminals”. They don’t cross the border on foot. They have money and come across at legal crossings and airports. But if they choose to cross on foot, they dig tunnels; they have tools that will penetrate a fence; they can pretty much defeat most any physical barrier. Do you really think a fence will stop them?
A fence is a $5 billion dollar speed bump. What stops the illegal trespass is technology and manpower at both the remote parts of the border and, more importantly, at the legal crossings too (that’s where most of the drugs come in). It’s time old fashioned common sense prevailed - the one old fashioned conservatives used to talk about - and we reach a compromise: $5 billion to be spent on border (all borders) technology and manpower, and not one cent for a silly speed bump. Both sides score political points and Americans win.
18
Fact Check NYTimes
"Trump escalates border wall fight in speech to the nation"
How is this escalation? He promised nothing new. It was a rehash of the same campaign rhetoric he has said for the past 18 days.
He made no new claims, offered no new solutions, and actually made no new threats. It had fair number of lies, par for the Trump course, but there was no escalation and nothing new.
It was a waste of time. A political speech that was not Trump informing the country as President, but as Republican campaigning for a policy change. Sure, with lies, based on racism. But that is not a change.
To say it is an escalation is a lie. But then I guess the Times fact checkers were too hard at work on Trump to check their own spew online.
12
A Presidential address from the Oval Office - a site normally reserved for wartime pronouncements - is an escalation. He may not have said anything new, but he took his case directly to the American people from the Inner Sanctum of our halls of power. It’s a place reserved for emergent national security issues, not political posturing. I disagree that The New York Times is out of line here. This was an escalation on Trump’s Part. NYT is right on point.
15
Why does escalation have to involve new information or a solution of some sort? If two coworkers have a disagreement, they can escalate their disagreement to their manager or to HR in an effort to resolve the matter.
By presenting his case to the public via the TV network to millions of viewers, he did indeed escalate the matter.
12
“If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party,” Senator Lindsey Graham said.
Make it so.
31
That new aircraft carrier cost how much ?
4
Trump is quoted as saying: “The federal government remains shut down for one reason and one reason only: because Democrats will not fund border security.”
This statement is untrue. The government is shut down because Trump is using the shutdown to blackmail acceptance of $5.7 billion in spending on a wall that has nothing to do with the work of 800,000 government employees who are not being paid for only one reason: leverage.
Chuck Schumer is quoted as saying: ““No president should pound the table and demand he gets his way or else the government shuts down, hurting millions of Americans who are treated as leverage.”
This statement about improper action by Trump is entirely accurate. Trump is harming the country to attempt forcing installation of a wall that unrelated to the shutdown.
The reporting by the NYT is remiss in not pointing out that the Dems have proposed ending the improper shutdown, and then setting up a month of careful discussion of costs and benefited of a wall compared to alternatives for fixing border problems. This separation of the payment of wages from funding a wall is proper and sensible and the NYT has inadequately stressed this point.
16
After the speech, on one of the networks, MSNBC Laurence O'Donnell showed that the media was tricked to give free ad time for Trump's 2020 campaign. This 10 minute speech was exactly like his old campaign speeches of 2016. The media and the American people were conned. Amazing. Trump stiffed the network media.
23
I know one Senator who was not in Washington offfering rebuttals or fact checking. Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon was on the border investigating the inhumane treatment of immigrant children, our new juvenile prisons.
14
A $600 billion defence budget to invade other countries is approved without any public outrage yet a defensive barrier on your own backyard at less than 10% of that causes such division (excuse the pun).
120
I hope you mean less than 1 (one) percent!!!
34
@Ben Walker Not the issue or the point. This is not about a wall. It's about not giving into racism, xenophobia, and an insane president taking the entire country hostage to his own ego.
183
less than 1%, actually
28
This was one of The Donald's most animated Stephen Miller speeches, with that painfully, feigned look on his very sad face, using the Peoples' Oval Office.
He must have been trying to show interest, and trying to tell the truth for the first time in his life, while hiding his indigestion after simultaneously eating two of his fave fast food meals. It didn't work.
Then there was Chuck and Nancy both standing behind their single podium for rebuttal. We've heard about, and seen American Gothic. Tonight we saw Chuck's and Nancy's Capitol Gothic, which actually made sense, and offered a compromise.
They said people are increasingly being hurt from shutting down the government, and not receiving their salaries. So, re-open the government, stop the people from hurting, and then lets come to a reasonable compromise the on the border.
9
I think “a wall” to separate us from our neighbors is popular with Trump because, as a real estate developer, it’s one small thing in our vast republic he actually understands.
4
If Canada can create border security without a wall, why can't the U.S.?
17
After the speech, on one of the networks, MSNBC Laurence O'Donnell showed that the media was tricked to give free ad time for Trump's 2020 campaign. This 10 minute speech was exactly like his old campaign speeches of 2016. The media and the American people were conned. Amazing.
7
It's a given that Trump is a hate filled bigot, but what I find disturbing is that he does not recognize it and can never change himself or be changed. It's obvious he views his hate as normal, even wishing to share it with others.
8
I am confused. I thought Mexico was paying for the wall and the Trump was going to make the Pres of Mexico a deal he couldn't refuse. What happened? Was Trump telling a lie?
16
One other point that should be made about the opioid crisis.
A major part of is due to prescription opioids legally available in the U.S. so there is no reason for anyone to smuggle them.
But one thing that gives me a laugh is how Trump always says we have to do something after someone is killed by an illegal immigrant but when Americans are killed by an American, as in Las Vegas, Parkland, and multiple other mass shootings not to mention the many other thousands of gun deaths each year, all he says is we should pray. I guess as far as Trump and his Republican minions, the only people who we should care about is those killed by immigrants.
26
Why was Bernie Sanders of Vermont selected to talk about border security to the south?. Hardly a specialty of his. He isn't even Democrat.
National discussion of immigration to the US has been unrealistic for long time, as existing laws prohibiting hiring illegals have not been effectively enforced. Trump must be aware of that history, as he has employed illegal immigrants in his hotels and golf courses. The wall is an expensive but too simple response to a complex problem. We have seen that Trump has not mastered the details of various national issues, including immigration. His difficulty may be lack of ability to absorb and analyze the information, or perhaps a lack of motivation to learn from real world evidence instead of going with his gut. This leaves him unable to persuade Congress or the public to his point of view by reasoned argument. Instead, he has chosen to create artificial and damaging drama as he tries to bully the nation into agreeing with his wish to have a wall. His chosen approach is not a serious or thoughtful response to immigration issues. The American people deserve a president who actually does the work of leadership, not a showman who spins a false story.
4
Hey Lindsey Graham- Here we are, starting Year 3 of this administration, and Trump finally behaved in a [relatively] "presidential manner" which shocked you so much you actually blurted it out on national television.
7
Who cares.
The whole argument against a barrier - wall or otherwise - is specious, and childish.
A barrier can do no harm. To anyone. Ever.
Anyone who wants to enter this nation legally may do so at any time by applying for entry and crossing through a port of entry.
A barrier doesn't prevent that.
It only prevents illegal entry, a lawless act that appears to be openly supported and encouraged by many commenters, and many Democrtic party leaders.
That's pathetic. Anti-American. And hypocritical.
Want more ports of entry ? Add them and staff them. No problem.
As for people who want to enter illegally, who cares. Let them get in line along with people who have respect for the law.
5
The Republicans had majorities in both houses of Congress for the last 2 years. They chose to use that time focusing on a tax cut nobody asked for and an unsuccessful attempt at repealing Obamacare. Why didn’t they fund the wall? This is a fake crisis for political gain (whatever happened to the caravan crisis just before the midterms?) and it’s obvious Senate Republicans don’t even want to deal with it.
14
Are you ABSOLUTELY certain that a barrier can do no harm to anyone, ever?
Even Trump admitted that someone tossing a heavy bag of drugs over a barrier could harm someone that was hit with the load on the other side.
Now that is only an example of INDIRECT harm, but I would expect most examples of harm resulting from “static barriers” would be of that type.
What if it fell over? Simple mechanical failure, natural disaster, sabotage? Certainly someone could be harmed.
I must also presume that you’re not acquainted with the whole Rio Grande barrier-associated flooding issue. Apparently there’s a treaty that deals with this actual topic.
You see, a barrier (especially a solid barrier) that is parallel & close to a river, could cause significant flooding on the other side of the barrier.
Now I know we’re not concerned with the lives of brown people from South of the border except when we can use them as props in a “humanitarian crisis,” but......speaking of migrants, I think a woman was physically harmed trying to crawl over the barrier, but of course, she did take her chances.
Of course, the fate of animals & other wildlife are rarely of concern......
Unless, of course, their rarity provides fewer opportunities to trophy-hunt, etc.
So I won’t bother to mention the harm that Trump’s beautiful barrier could impose on a federal nature preserve on the border. They’re useless, of course, so I won’t mention the butterfly center...,,
2
@S.F.K
I lived in Houston for 20 years, and I know that the majority of the citizens in that region support the halting of illegal immigration.
Almost no one, opposes immigrants. Almost everyone, opposes illegal immigrants.
Trump was elected by the Republican base to run roughshod over the Republican establishment and address issues important to the voters. He has been very good - better than any other president in history - at fulfilling his campaign promises.
Life in a fanatsy world where no one wants a tax cut and is happy with unconstitutional federal government overreach, or, you are a card carrying Democrat who believes the stories on the Koolaid package.
For every lie or statement "needing context" there are thousands of federal workers who are trying to figure out how they will pay their mortgage.
THAT is the national crisis.
19
The Republican Party and Democratic Party should have paid the networks for the time to air this partisan propaganda. Loaded with disinformation, it certainly served no positive public service.
4
Ron,
It is the Republican party who should pay for this political campaign speech of Trump. Democrats only are responding to his lies and obfuscation. not campaigning.
Trump continues to misrepresent the cost of building his wall, as he has done in most of his comments to the press and on social media. $5.6 billion is a small fraction of the cost to build the wall. His comments implied that $5.6 billion would pay for the wall. Informed people know this, but I am shocked at how many uninformed people there are who will believe that $5.6 billion will build the wall.
7
Pelosi and Schumer didn't even touch the President's points except they called the emergency "a manufactured crisis". This is tantamount to saying they could care less about the lives of the people hurt by violence inflicted or people murdered by illegal immigrants the President discussed in his speech.
Nancy Pelosi has a wall around her $20 million Napa Valley, Caifornia estate and I am sure Chuck Schumer lives in a well guarded community. Both of these politicians have supported strong border security measures including a border barrier before and there is no reason for them not to support one now. Israel has a border wall on its border with the Gaza Strip and it has drastically reduced terrorist attacks. If it works for Israel to reduce illegal border crossers, it can work for the United States.
6
Azrandfan,
You are mistaken, this is truly a manufactured crises. Manufactured by the forced family separation policy enforced by Trump's own adminstration. As for your comment on the wall around Pelosi's home, political officeholders are targets for many angry and disturbed people. It is mean to suggest they be denied adequate protection. Trump is a liar, Wake up!
I agree with a majority of what is written in this article, but when I checked the source of the drugs information for heroine and fentanyl it did mention China being a big source, but Mexico also being along side with it. I think this document https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/cbp-border-security-report-fy2017.pdf helps more with your point and may you should reword what you said. Just a suggestion, no shade thrown your way.
2
Actually, compared to the previous few presidents and their tendencies to use whoppers, this was pretty factual. One can agree or disagree, but there was nothing as ridiculous as, "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor." or, the run-up to Gulf War 2. or, what the meaning of is, is.
4
It is time for McConnell to fold. Allow a vote. Get the Government back running again without the Wall, because Republicans...this isn’t helping your cause whatsoever.
The “Trump Time” Campaign Special was a waste.
NO to the WALL!
Now take that Veto Power and Use it!
3
It is unfortunate that even a robust democracy is fully capable of electing a tzar. Mr. Trump is a tzar in spirit and form of government. Animosity he instills between our two main national parties and their supporters is an effective tool to promote unilateral decision making as tolerance and cooperation give way to mutual hatred and distrust. As democratic governing slowly grinds to a halt, a strongman in power is an alternative and even a necessity. His Mexican border wall is another tool to drive this wedge deeper and usurp more power. Tzars always built their immortality on their subjects' suffering and this one is no different.
4
Senator Graham’s assertion that the Republican Party and Trump’s presidency are done if Trump doesn’t get his wall is what this shutdown is all about; not whether the wall is a good idea or efficient way of dealing with immigration. Republican Senators are to blame; Party over Country... it’s disgusting.
14
I would like to see fact checking on his claim that illegal immigrants are driving down jobs and wages for African Americans and Hispanic Americans.
7
This man is delusional and believes his own lies. The only crisis we have is having him as President, and having a Republican base in this country that believes he is competent as such.
9
The New York Times thinks of itself as a bastion of accuracy.
But in the coverage of THE WALL v. The left,
I have to state that your reporters fail across the line to report accurately the ground level computations of crime.
None of you are victims of crime, I can tell.
Linda Qui's statement "But it should be noted that these criminal convictions covered a range of offenses, including many that were nonviolent. The most common charges were for traffic violations, possessing or selling drugs and immigration offenses like illegal entry."
All drug dealing is violent. Don't kid yourself. Selling and possessing drugs is an anthema to America. It is a crime that can be deemed only a "misdemeanor" in California to possess "hard drugs" but the damage such drug use and drug dealing cause is immersurable.
I comment herein: I am sick and tired of the Times using the wrong argument - actually all those "illegals" are harmless, hard working folks who would never harm anyone.
They do harm everybody.
6
@WPLMMT For someone in NYC, you show a lot of wisdom and sanity in your reaction. I have lived on both sides of the border for 20+ years and know that for all the pandering politicians and pundits give to this subject, only a very few of us know what it's really like at the border.
The President described it as with direct clarity and as anyone. It is probably his last word on the subject. Be there no action to do so by a fragile Democratic party with no backbone nor understanding of history, do not be too surprised to see the President close the entire border, right along with the US government at this juncture: that is the only action which will speak to the House and Senate pontiffs of open borders in 2019.
Perdition and total collapse lie just beneath the surface of this issue, and only a complete border closure will address it at this point.
3
Trump seems confused. He mistakes his job as President for the faux boss on The Apprentice or the real boss of Trump University & Trump Foundation. His reliance on such flimflam is audacious in the dumbest way.
Cranking up a crisis to rejuvenate his stature as Mueller closes in is both desperate and shallow. He can fool some of the people some of the time....but hundreds of thousands of Americans are now wised up as tariffs & the shut down create the true crisis.
5
Trump was predictable: glittering generalities, exaggerated "facts," false urgency, blaming and shaming, and desperation to focus attention anywhere but on his problems with the forthcoming Russia revelations (and the fresh ones tonight). I wish Pelosi and Schumer had made more actual points, not just repeating the same generalities that we already expect to hear from them. I was waiting for factual refutations of Trump's exaggerated numbers, for example, and more emphasis on the harm he has done to 800,000 federal employees and everyone whose lives they touch = or can't touch because of Trump's tantrum of a shutdown. My score: a draw tonight, but comeuppance is coming to Trump and it won't be pretty when it arrives, and neither will the road to it be an experience we'll want to repeat. But we do need to go down it, the sooner the better.
6
Step right up folks to my arcade. We have something for everyone. It's only going to cost $70,000,000,000, and you won't have to pay a cent. This great wall will keep out the Huns from Mexico,and it will make America great again by creating more jobs.
We're also going to create another wall across the American-Canadian border. I sucker-punched Trudeau Junior in negotiations with USMCA, and now I'm going to have them pay for this new wall.
I can't believe how easy it is to run this country (for my friends), and my next move will be to create the 51st state on the moon.
6
If people reading this article cannot see the transparent and unfounded hate for President Trump this rag expresses, our nation is lost. That a formerly respectable Newspaper would stoop to such low character is representative of hate before profit. NYT is now the hate rag of America but watch out for WaPo, it's not far behind.
7
Since when are the facts “hate”? This article disputed the lies Trump has repeatedly fed the people he was elected to serve. It is a fact that he used this speech as a fundraising opportunity for his campaign. I’d call a person willing to ignore the hard facts to support partisan lies both a fool and a “hater.” One day you will deny supporting Trump to you grandchildren, as history will serve him harshly. History books do not repeat lies in perpetuity, but expose the dangerous propaganda used to manipulate a people.
19
Your headline for your main article, which doesn’t allow us to comment, should have replaced the word “misleading” with LIED.
Seriously - do you all have an issue with just saying how it is? What he said tonight and what he says daily...lies...not an opinion...backed by factual and verifiable data.
7
Well, if Mexico is somehow going to pay for the wall after all, why shut down the government? Why cause extreme hardship for 800,000 government workers? Why endanger the security and functioning of this nation?
We have a sociopath and fascist in the WH - manufacturing a "crisis" - what's next, martial law?
16
@doy1
Democrats can end the shut down as quickly as Trump.
Trump said he would be “proud to own the shutdown.” So why is it the Democrats’ responsibility to bail him out of something he proclaims is such a great idea?
6
@Susan Republicans had the majority the last two years. Why didn't THEY prevent the shutdown by building the wall then?
3
Fear and loathing in the Oval Office
4
Trump sounded like Dick Cheney trying to justify the invasion of Iraq.
8
Dems lost a great opportunity to take Trump down. Pelosi and Schumer were absolutely the worst ones to make the case no matter their political prowess. If Dems can't be more forceful and direct in their opposition we are shafted again.
7
Teleprompter Trump.
Snoozer.
Total snoozer.
7
I wonder whether the Times, in saying “this needs context”, actually means “true, but we disagree with Trump’s argument”?
10
Agree. The article was pretty thin.
4
About opioid addiction in the US. I would like to know why there are so many people with addictive personality.
Have any studies been done on why some people do and others don't.
Then there is this: supply and demand for cheap human labor.
Central America has a huge supply of cheap human labor.
The US obviously has a demand for cheap labor, else how would they live in the US?
Does the US have a "guest worker" policy (like the German Gastarbeiter policy in post war years ) that would allow those cheap labor to enter and work in the US certain times of the year?
Businesses can put a business case to the gov to allow them to hire "guest workers" for certain time of the year and for certain jobs that Americans do not want.
Trump's wall does not fit into any rational discussion from where I stand on these issues, pointless.
4
Someone please tell the President to insist that E-Verify be made mandatory for every job in the US. Then you won't need a wall.
6
In truth, (for a change), very few Americans want the wall while almost all want the shutdown to end immediately. If Trump would stop holding to ransom 800,000 federal bureaucrats and the millions of ordinary citizens who rely on them, our elected representatives might get back to doing the people's work.
14
The hysteria on Fox News indicates a Right Wing fear that's real because the people that make it their business to obfuscate for a living in service to America's oligarchy might well be in trouble. As anybody who has ever seen a conspiratorial enterprise fall apart should know: When their premise begins to crumble like a poorly constructed concrete wall in a desert where Ozymandias has already withered their remaining time on the job might well be very brief.
7
Same speech given at every rally he has had for the last 2 years. Nothing new. Really, don't the Trump voters get tired of reruns?
12
After listening to Trumps rambling and reading all these comments, the only words come to my mind are "what a fool" and whats "wrong with America" and the most of all whats wrong with "these Republicans" ...... why do they hate our democracy so much.
7
The Austin Chronicle reports statistics from the Gun Violence Archive for 2018, confirmed as of January 2:
Gun violence incidents: 56,754
Deaths: 14,596
Injuries: 28,148
Children ages 0-11 killed/injured: 665
Teens ages 12-17 killed/injured: 2825
Mass shootings (4 or more killed): 340
These do not include the 22,000 suicides (average per year) or unintended injuries (around 12,000 per year, no firm data).
Most of these would be American-on-American violence, btw. Maybe we should focus on the gun crisis among us, rather than blaming people from other countries for the violence we bring upon ourselves.
28
@Allison
More people are seriously injured or killed in car accidents. But what's the point?
Perhaps you would like no border security? We should just leave our nation's borders wide open? Unchecked immigration?
1
@Susan: With all due respect, it's not all just one thing or the other, Susan. Border security is complex. Anyone who's ever seen the Berlin Wall in operation knows what maintaining a wall between countries entails. It also ensures hostilities between the separated countries will increase. Anyone interested in bringing about peace in the world is going to recognize what a detriment walls are to the type of communication that is so important to peaceful co-existence. That's one issue entirely. Another one is the role of technology. Surveillance has become a highly sophisticated technological affair. NPR did a story about an experiment involving cooperation between Border Protection and a rancher in Texas. They set up the technology, gave him a laptop, and with his help, they apprehended fifty-five people trying to traverse his land. Why aren't we working on expanding projects like this one? A wall is not the only solution, and there are too many disadvantages to a wall, such as environmental damage and eminent domain lawsuits, whereas other solutions have more positive aspects that we should be taking into account when discussing border security.
8
We already spend around 18 billion a year on border security
2
Stand tall Nancy and Chuck, your victory over this totally fabricated crisis could very well spell the end for Trump and the Republicans... that and of course how his speech was graded by Hannity and Coulter, the real leaders of the party of No!
4
I am a member of an organization of 1, an organization I have thought of, this due to the great value of the #me to movement; - - my group of 1, [although there may be others out there ?], my group of 1 is the #us to movement.
I think this needs to be formed in order to stop stereotyping males as all being the same.
Some of us need to be recognized, and to have equality too, seriously-speaking.
For example, there are women and children at the southern border seeking asylum who need to receive it; and, there also are men there who need to receive it.
And, males of diverse backgrounds and appearances in America also need equality in all its forms.
Also to add to my previous comment: they all .. Trump, Pelosi, Schumer .. were horrible on camera.
1
falsehood
untruth
misstatement
disinformation
I do believe those are synonyms for lie.
Untruth, really? Good grief. My mom would have washed my mouth out with soap. I guess his mom gave him a Whopper. Appropriately enough.
8
And my mum said “never use that word” when I said lie. She preferred ‘fib’!
Trump reminded me of an incompetent, obsessed and delusional would be tyrant who spouted misinformation about our border and immigration problems. He did this to stoke fear and anxiety and politically to shore up his right wing extremist base. His delivery was uninspired and mechanical revealing his cynicism, lack of honor, empathy, and dishonesty. Unfortunately the only national crisis is of his own making and in reality is in the incompetency and demagoguery of his flawed and disturbed Presidency.
How long must this shameful and shameless charade go on? That is the real national security tragedy.
8
"Humanitarian crisis!"... Oh the sad wicked irony of the attempt to change the racist narratives, policies, and behaviors of Trump, with a newer softer more palatable spiel of the crisis HE has created. Bottle-necking women children, families, at the border in refrigerators, then placing them in for-profit detention centers, paying these facilities zillions...
A little boy dies on Christmas day because of the negligence of this administration. Trumps response-... crickets. I've heard 22 people have died in the custody of this administration. But Kirsten Neilson when called before a commitee last week(?) didn't have the count of deaths but told the commitee she would get back to them...
Trump the fear-monger continues his assault on American values and hope...there is a crisis/crimes against humanity emanating from the White House.
8
When illegal immigrants have better rights, medical, and jobs than legal US Americans something is badly wrong. Walls work and the higher the better ! Dem's supports boarder security except when it comes to Trump ! ! That is what this is all about !
The Dem's win or no one wins ! Its time for all American's to stand up and state we will not be treated like red head step children by our government, news media, and new papers of this great country. We should all meet at the boarder and form a human wall so they will understand we will never give in to the Dem's of this land ! ! ! !
5
@Jeff,
You have solved the problem! As you suggest, let’s get all GOP supporters to stand in line on the southern border (not boarder as many write). Then no illegal immigrant can cross and the tax payer doesn’t have to fork out $5 billion. Brilliant idea.
6
@Jeff Please let us know when you've organized the Alabama representatives for your grand project. Many Americans, myself included, are willing to donate money, food, and clothing for you and your buddies to form your "human wall" on the border. The longer you guys are at the border, the safer the rest of us will feel. As a side benefit, I expect the stock market will take off as productivity skyrockets. Brilliant idea!!! Go for it!! Trust me, as "a lib", it will really get under my skin.
The best rebuttal is Trump's own, collected in his own words in Border Wall found on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/vU8dCYocuyI
2
We were conned.
There was nothing new in his speech.
There was no "Emergency".
He snuffled and snorted and there was nothing that we hadn't heard before.
So, why did he do it?
Because , as Lawrence O' Donnell just pointed out on his show, it was a fund-raiser.
Supposedly it was a fund-raiser for "The Wall".
"Send your $5 now!"
But if you read the small print, it stated that it would be used for re-electing the president.
That's all it was, folks.
A con.
A scam.
Republicans: How much creepier are you going to allow him to be?
FOX NEWS had refused to run his rallies last November.
The ratings were in the toilet.
That's likely why he hasn't done a rally since November 26.
This ploy, of doing prime-time tv, as a fund-raiser, is his latest attempt to fleece the masses.
Lawrence's show is called, "The Last Word", try to catch his segment on this for it's a real stunner.
We were had.
15
It’s impossible to keep the entire border under surveillance all the time; wall or no wall. Doesn’t he realize just one Wiley Coyote with a stick of TNT and — BOOM— a hole in the wall. This guy is looney toons.
5
I’d like to see them either never give him his Mexico-paid fence, or give it to him in exchange for everything - starting with massive gun control.
2
RE “Some economists argue that immigrants drive down available jobs and wages for Americans only if they are competing for the same jobs as the domestic work force. In many cases, immigrants — legal or illegal — are seeking jobs that American citizens do not want to do."
Another questionable statement by the NYT and economists.
There's no doubt these are the same economists who said the economy was in great shape just before the last recession. The same professionals who looked at their data and said Trump would never win the election. These people don't have their feet on the ground and wouldn't know how to properly use a p-value if their life depended on it.
If employers bring in immigrants, there is no need to compete for labor and thus no pressure on wages. Let's look at a real world example that shows the extent of the damage done to US citizens when immigrant workers flood a labor market. Immigrant wages for landscape workers in Jackson, WY run about $16.50 per hour. If immigrants aren't available, wages rise to $20 and up. That attracts American workers who are happy to do the work. You can see Americans doing landscaping work in Jackson, WY, every day of the summer. If there are a limited number of workers, all employers must raise wages if immigrants aren't available. Every industry competes for the same limited pool of workers. It's is why wages have inched up under Trump. More jobs than workers. Once we bring in immigrants, wages will fall or stagnate.
3
I’ll have to check out those economists that were predicting election outcomes....can you share some of their names?
And speaking of experts....doesn’t Trump have some Nobel prize economist in his Administration? I’ve heard that every prediction this true genius has made has always been completely correct.
K....Ku.....Kudlow?
Maybe he’s left by now. I simply can’t keep up with the turnover.
2
"Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, told Fox News’s Sean Hannity that he had never seen Mr. Trump behave in such a presidential manner."
Meaning, he followed a script written for him .... very unusual.
11
@jhanzel
or did he say
He'd never seen Mr.Trump behave in a presidential manner...
That certainly is true. No one has.
3
@jhanzel Next week will mark 2 years of rehearsal. Another two years and you'll see him act that way two or maybe even three days a month. It just takes time for someone who's "like a very smart man."
3
"Fentanyl coming from Mexico is often hidden in automobile compartments, much like conventional drug smuggling." If this is the case, how does a wall reduce the flow of drugs into the US across the Mexican border?
12
@EricH
Walls direct traffic flow to checkpoints. Additionally, walls prevent quick and easy access to dense urban areas (cities) where drug smugglers could easily disappear.
Let's be clear, Trump made many comments about border security. He did not say that a wall would fix all the problems related to drugs or violence. A wall is one part of the solution to border security.
If you listened to NPR, you would have heard one of its reporters making the case that a wall was considered to be very important for border security among the members of the border patrol who have their feet on the ground, unlike most people who comment here.
2
@Susan Actually, it's the head of the border patrol union who fully supports the wall. More wall, because there is already 600 miles of wall in place on the border, means more officers to patrol it. More officers means more union dues and more political power for the head of the boarder patrol union. Let's not pretend he has the well being of Americans as his primary concern. Despite the obvious conflict of interest, Democrats fully support hiring more agents and giving them more advanced technology to help agents control the large patches of the border that runs through some of the most difficult and life threatening desert landscape in America that they often have to patrol on their own.
1
Why aren't you "fact checking" the Dem response with the same fine toothed comb and "This needs context"? Their claims were the same brand of half truths all politicians are guilty of in trying to convince. You guys are so one sided it's a disgrace. Pretend better to be less biased.
5
They did. Please refer again to the article upon which you are commenting. There were several cases in which both Mr. Schumer and Ms. Pelosi said things that, according to the New York Times, needed context.
Neither Schumer nor Pelosi lied as Trump did.
5
“If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party,” Mr. Graham said.
Aye, there's the rub Mr. Graham. Your President has created a crisis in your Party (along with government, budget, immigration, the Constitution, justice, the environment, international relations, ad infinitum) and you and the GOP have enabled him every step of the way.
Mr. Trump has gone all in on a poor hand and convinced you to continually stake his game.
But really, so what if it is the end of your party (or Party)? And honestly, the majority of Americans would not be disappointed if Trump's presidency ended earlier rather than later.
9
“If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party,” Mr. Graham
Well get started then.
16
Sorry it's taken me so long to comment but we had a drinking game going on at my house that involved taking a shot with each lie and I passed out.
13
How nice to get a laugh out of this evening. Thanks!
3
One could wish the NYT had simply covered the speech instead of attacking it. But it’s too much to ask in these “partisan times.”
4
Pointing out diversion from the truth IS covering the speech. Would you rather they present the content as if it were unassailable truth? They were doing what journalists are supposed to do.
8
Are you serious?
Not even taking in account the very peculiar relationship Trump entertains with truth and reality, fact checking is exactly something journalists should always do.
There is nothing partisan about taking side for facts.
7
It's scary how much , in his dehumanization of the other, Trump employs the authoritarian playbook. Aren't Presidents supposed to unite the country with these oval office addresses?
8
What exactly would $5-plus billion purchase in terms of a wall? Trump has never provided a true cost estimate, and the numbers are all over the place, ranging from $10 billion or so to $70 billion. It's probably somewhere in the middle but still extraordinary -- and unnecessary. High-tech security is needed, not the Great Wall of Trump.
Trump's calls for better security, therefore, have been mostly for show, and they are coming fast and furious now amid fresh revelations that he has obstructed justice and committed other crimes.
4
You know this is going to be a pro-liberal article when they refer to "Speaker" Nancy Pelosi and "Senator" Chuck Schumer, but then forget that "Mr. Trump" is the "President".
He is the duly elected President whether you like it or not Qiu and Rappeport.
As for the Democrats being willing to pay $1.3 billion for border security...to do what, continue like it is? Because that's clearly working!
FYI: "Needs context" is not the same as False, so pretty much everything he stated was true.
4
The wall is already underway -- being built in the mental confusion of anyone who has accepted his fear-based politics.
8
Senator Graham, hadn't you noticed that the Republican Party was dying before the nomination of Donald Trump. You just helped it along....
7
The new younger and smarter Democratic Leadership is using social media to talk to the nation, and they are far more interesting and newsworthy than Trump or Pelosi.
1
Tonight's address by the president was more to deflect attention away from the other news stories of today than it was about the wall. there was nothing new said. Nothing has changed. Instead of partisan bickering over a wall, look at what Manafort's defense inadvertently disclosed about his sharing of polling information with the Russians. Why is Trump loosening sanctions against Russia? Why does Trump so often speak highly of Putin while letting federal workers go without pay?The "wall" and the shutdown are easy for the average person to understand so that's what they focus on, while a very complicated and concerning picture is emerging about Trump's involvement with Russia and the leverage that foreign country has over him.
7
We have many sections of border walls already on our Mexican border, and they're an eyesore as soon as they're erected. Graffiti artists deface both sides of the new walls. Some sections of the metal walls rust. Plastic bags, trash, and human garbage collect against remote sections. An unbroken steel border wall would be an ecological disaster, as well as easily breached with dangerous halide gas cutters.
And if Mexico is really going to pay for a border wall, it ought to be on Mexico's southern border. There, the migrant Caravan gets Mexican support, crowding boxcar trains for El Norte. Meanwhile, as the largest number of illegal aliens here are from Canada, why no White House calls for a border wall on our northern border? Both walls will cost more than $5.7 billion.
4
I believe that Trump's fight over the border wall is his biggest political mistake. He has boxed himself into a corner fighting over something that's not even worth the effort. What's sad is that it didn't have to be. He could have signed the funding deal that he has negotiated with Mitch McConnell and just move on but 'no' he had to listen to four of the most loony tune people on the planet, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity and let them intimidate him into reversing himself. Now he has made a total fool of himself and placed himself in the position of looking weak and amateurish. Wouldn't it be ironic if the FOX News pundits were the ones who influenced him to do the one thing that became the turning point of his Presidency that began his collapse. With supporters and consultant like those who needs enemies.
8
At this point in the game, either the evidence for some sort of serious physical thing wrong in his head (i.e. a tumor that has invaded and murdered all of the logic portions of his brain that will never be found because he has issued an executive order that his head will never be examined physically) is overwhelming or he is only concerned with being remembered for some huge number.
Something bigger than ever before. Fantastically big.
And if he can't do it economically, and that certainly seems to be the way this is going to play out, he'll be happy having been the guy to start WWTrump.
The war in which more people died than ever before. The numbers will be fantastically huge.
It is all pointing in that direction.
2
When is this madness going to end?
6
The "crisis" is one of Trump's own making. He constantly takes a real situation needing addressing, amplifies it with his own ill-advised actions, then blames the result on his perceived enemies.
How does such an incompetent, racist, manager remain employed?
How do so many people shut off their brains and believe his tripe without even a cursory attempt at finding facts?
7
if you want to stop illegal immigrants from coming to the USA, you have to stop hiring them (a wall wont work).
no jobs, no illegal immigrants (supply and demand).
how about we start punishing the companies that hire illegal immigrants?
5
@Rob C Because so many of them are Republican donors. Can't upset the 1%!!!
"Most Federal employees are Democrats" as a twisted rational to shut down the government in addition to not getting his "Wall".
Then continue to vomit more lies with his Tweets and tonight's limp performance is a sad statement of today's republicans and what America has become.
Drug dealers fly planes and ship thru open seas, not with women & children. Again with his twisted fictional position for a Wall is false, however his base will believe him. Who else would?
4
If there is a crisis now... a national security crisis... then what was it back under Bush Jr. when we had 5 times the illegal immigrants we see now?
We're at a historic low in both legal and illegal immigration. Those are facts. The only crisis here was self-fulfilled.
9
Democratic response should have been ... let’s make a deal. You produce your tax returns and we’ll build a wall.
370
@Hk
No no no. Democrats should respond why its taking so long for IRS to audit his tax returns.
22
@Hk unfortunately the only compromise the two party system has been good at the last couple decades is stripping down policy into something that is ineffective and inefficient rather than making any real tradeoffs and at least getting something solid that backs up their campaign promises.
8
@Hk
More like you resign.
19
Very sharp responses from the new Democrat opposition. They are loudly articulate and in Trump's face. He won't be talking to the nation again anytime soon.
5
@Fourteen - I certainly hope you are right
1
Give Trump his $5.7 billion, something to keep him occupied for the next two years.
Odds are he won't be able to spend it all by January 2021 at which time he'll hopefully be watching the inauguration of his Democratic successor attended by record crowds.
3
@JimH - Hopefully by January 2021 he will be wearing an orange jumpsuit. If anyone believes he is not controlled by / an asset of Putin, they have not been paying attention.
4
@JimH
"not one cent for tribute"
Is this leading up to Trump’s Reichstag Fire? Sure looks like it. I bet he tries to declare a “national emergency” at the border. This Congress needs to block it as such an action would be an attempt to override Congressional responsibility. I just cannot understand McConnell’s paralysis here when Congress could indeed override a Presidential veto and open government. Then Congress could start working on policy that would benefit the People. But is the Republican Party too much in the Oligarch and big business special interests pockets at this point to even care about their constituents? Are they too afraid of Trump? The real emergency is the paralyzing of government over an argument over border wall funding and the fallout from that: people are not being paid and that is very stressful and just think about all the critical services that they handle that are not being done now. Trump is responsible, If you can find the Bernie Sanders rebuttal, listen to it or read it. It was a great appeal not just to the heart but to common sense: we in the US have many other crisis which need addressing than the one Trump and that Administration of his concocted.
4
Mcconnell fears that his Republicans will bolt and vote with Dems. He’s Trump’s tool.
Halfway through Trump’s... speech? 8th grade essay? First assignment in a high school freshman public speaking class? I don’t know what it was it was so terrible. Anyway, halfway through, my husband turns the TV off and slams the remote down, grumbling about our disgusting something or other president. Anyone else?
9
Only regret I have about Trump's speech is that I wasted my 9 minutes listening to his speech.
7
I'm reading up on the speech now but when Trump was live, I watched IDIOCRACY & THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE instead. Same thing.
7
Both movies are so apropos right now...
President Trump wants that wall by hook or by crook.
Personally, I believe there should be some kind of wall or otherwise to separate the USA from Mexico.
Just what is up to the elected to decide , and perhaps if Donald was a bit less belligerent Mexico might have helped with the idea and payments.
But Donald being Donald and not reading data given him wants his wall with demands and threats like a spoiled kid wanting a toy.
Wow...what a politician if it came to talking war..??
The Donald will lose this issue because I thing people are tired of his bluster, lies, exaggerations and all the other pending negative events being dug up about him, family and business methods
.Neither manners nor mana..!!
In other words he cannot now with the Democrats bully his way the way he wants it or things done.
Never, I believe have so many top men and women been hired and fired or left the White House since Trump took over.
He would have had a better chance of getting his wall built had he been nicer about it, but that is not The Donald Way.
Stan Chun
Wellington.NZ
9 Jan. 2019.
2
The national security budget request for FY 2019 is $716BILLION dollars. $686B of that is for DoD. If trump wants this wall so badly he’s willing to trash the lives of Americans with his own recalcitrance, and we’re being invaded by aliens, take the $5B from the nearly trillion dollar budget for our defense. After all, it’s “a national security” issue, and that’s what that astronomical amount of money is for, right?
6
THEY ARE LIES. Stop referring to them as ‘untruths’ or ‘misleading evidence’.
9
To say his speech was 'at times' misleading is itself grossly misleading. Maintaining this pretense of 'bipartisanship' in the face of such a crisis in government is damaging and irresponsible.
12
“As predicted, the president’s address tonight was nothing more than the fear-mongering and lies we have come to expect from him ... ” (Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss.) Exactly correct. Just like Mr. Trump's lie about previous Presidents wanting a wall. Just like Ms. Sander's lie about thousands of terrorists coming across the border (which even Ms. Conway has admitted was a lie). And on and on. No credibility, no shame, no character. Just lies and chutzpah.
8
The worst takeaway from this evening's non-event was that Trump hijacked major television stations to air his personal propaganda.
Television stations are in the business of making money, and delivering to us comedy, crime drama, film, and a type of news that's more and more becoming opinion, and the occasional fact-based educational series.
It's not their job to be responsible, just to make money for shareholders.
That they let Trump have free air-time, and time for opponent rebuttals, a definite non-money-maker, makes me wonder if and how Trump threatened them in order to air his propaganda. Or, perhaps the major stations are owned by Republican Trump supporters.
That this charade of a national security crisis was permitted to air is appalling, and verifies that the major networks are not on the side of truth.
Trump did not mention the crisis he created, refusing to hire more civil servants to process immigration applications at the border rapidly, and give applicants a hearing date. That's actually U.S. immigration law, yet 45,000 women and children are detained in unheated tents, waiting for months for a civil servant to process their immigration paperwork and give them a hearing date. Trump is firing immigration judges to further impede the legal process.
Immigrants are not the problem Americans must face. It's Trump, members of his obedient Republican Congress, who don't represent their constituents, and an unleashed hatred, for which Trump is the model.
9
Some of the fentanyl come from China through Canada. Do President Trump will now proposed a wall between Canada and the USA? And Canadians are so nice that they could pay or the wall.
3
Schumer and Pelosi have been lawmakers for decades...what have they done? Schumer is recorded on TV pushing for reforming illegal immigration.....this nothing
but partisan politics. we need comprehensive immigration reform and lawmakers to enforce our laws!
6
@Heavy Devi
Wait until 2050.
But we don't need to spend 5 billion dollars on a wasteful wall. Everything this man says is a lie about the border problems. We need security, yes, but we need a functioning government too. Say prayers that the next flight you take has been carefully screened by the unpaid TSA worker who is moonlighting somewhere to get a paycheck.
3
Border security & immigration policy are complex issues. Trump is guilty, as always, of trying to offer simplistic, base-pleasing bumper sticker solutions for challenging problems. Build a wall and everything will be cool along the Rio Grande. No more drugs will enter the US. No more gangs will exist. No, no, and no!
Women & children seeking asylum from horrible conditions in their native lands are not the same as MS-13 gang members, and labeling everyone seeking entry along the southern border as rapists and drug dealers is fear mongering at its worst.
And all of this current round of fear mongering and truth stretching is meant to somehow pressure Democrats to approve a now $5.7 billion request for a wall, a “steel barrier,” that will make all of our immigration challenges disappear. No, it won’t! And besides that, where are the specs on how that $5.7B will be spent? Answer: There are none. Just give him the money, and Trump will handle it. Right!
The Democrats are right. End this idiotic, politically motivated government shutdown, then sit down and formulate a meaningful and practical - and bi-partisan - plan for addressing the immense complexities of border security and immigration policy.
There is no rational reason for a third of federal government operations being shut down over this purely political “build a wall” promise of Trump’s. It’s all on him, imho, and I hope he reaps the whirlwind some day for his self-serving, reckless, and inhumane acts as POTUS.
6
Please. This was a political debate that should have been held in Congress or with the president in person. Networks don’t air Obama o this issue, and should never have aired this. What did we learn? Democrats and Trump won’t negotiate. Trump won’t move into the 21 Century by looking at technology instead. Republicans need to have individual spines instead of being part of the Borg. That goes for Democrats as well.
Nothing NEW. I know I’m not the only one sick of this approach.
McConnell needs to solve the problem so the Senate and the House can override a veto.
How hard is it to do the right thing?
6
Ask Mitch.
2
Not that I care that much because whatever Network shows were on were probably garbage anyway, but they shouldn't have given the time. Big waste... I listened on the radio by the way.
3
Clearly, the primary research directive for Trump's fearful showboat "address" was "Find me some crimes -- some bloody ones -- committed by illegal aliens."
But as fact checkers quickly showed tonight, the implication is inaccurate: immigrants are not a special crime cohort. The bloodletting crime rate among American citizens is higher, and mostly because of Republican blessings on the gun manufacturing industry.
Illegal aliens simply don't have the tools of real mega-death: lawyers, guns, and money.
Trump's theme was to scare Americans with tactics of fear and untruth. If Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, thinks he's never seen Trump behave in such a presidential manner, that's a really poor reflection on Lindsey Graham.
And a stiff teleprompter read is "presidential"? Ha! I could do as well, Lindsey.
6
I'm exasperated with all of you: Trump, the GOP, the Democrats, but MOSTLY the media. For the last 2 years I have been told that illegal immigration is at historic lows, that the majority of southern border applicants are seeking asylum, that the opioid crisis is mostly a rural, white problem—stemming from economic malaise (mostly caused by a combination of automation and corporate greed). And here we have a president claiming, blatantly, on national TV, that by not building a SILLY wall we are now engaged in a national crisis... and all I here from the media is "yes, no, maybe" equivocation. Trump is either totally delusional or he is not. Pick one and defend your position FORCEFULLY. You are doing us all a grave disservice and I am tired of the soft hand.
12
Trump's recipe for a crisis is:
1. Create a set of alternative facts.
2. Institute policies that make the crisis a reality.
3. Ask for an absurd amount of money to solve the crisis.
4. Hold the nation hostage and shut down the government.
5. Go on television and blame the Democrats for not giving you everything you asked for.
6. Repeat!
5
My dad had a sign on his desk: “Let’s compromise - we’ll do it my way.” Trump needs one of those.
3
Trump is just playing strongman for his supporters here. While $5.7B is not a lot of money, we don't need more walls. Use the money to build a collaborative and cooperative plan with Mexico and Central American countries to help the economies & reduce violence there so people stop leaving their countries in fear. Use smart technologies to monitor migrants across the southern border, the seaboards and all airports. Reform immigration laws so that the US can get low skilled workers for the many jobs that legal citizens refuse to accept or perform. The drug problem is not going to change with a wall. Wall is really a very stupid idea!
3
Donald Trump’s speech tonight was a desperate attempt to sure up his base. He
asked for contributions of $5.00 to sure up the border by stating there is a Humanitarian and National Security Crisis. He is right about a Humanitarian Crisis which he created, however, there are no National Security threat.
A pathetic attempt to fleece the American taxpayers to build his wall. Any contribution for the wall will be siphoned to his re-election campaign funds.
5
No one listens to the President anymore. Everything he says are lies and deception. Our nation suffers while he plays politics.
8
Why are we doing a fact check exercise? Pointless.
We have a person in the Oval Office who has demonstrated time and time again his clear patterns of psychopathology. The only reason for him pushing this "wall" issue is because he is insecure and does not want to appear weak. It has nothing to do with security, drugs, economy, etc.
Oh, and Pelosi and Schummer, they aren't off the hook. Not once has either of them stated that he already lost or appears weak because Mexico, according to Mr. T was going to pay for the "wall", clearly he lost that deal and once again proved that he is not the dealmaker he says he is.
5
It’s exactly the sort of sentiments expressed here, in the comments section of the NYT’s, that will ensure we get our wall. Trump will not back down.
3
@Rochelle
Congress controls the funds needed for Trump's "Wall". The Comments section in the Times doesn't.
3
An physical barrier representing a political division is immoral, there are more than human beings involved in every choice we make. This one in particular possesses a ridiculousness new to the world.
Analogous to this, we spent years using the Berlin wall as an emblem of the moral inferiority of our "enemy".
It is laughable to me that an individual who is demonstrably derelict in his duty, openly ignorant to the basics of his duty, who conducts an aggressive campaign of destruction in every effort he undertakes, has any sense what so ever of morality.
I have lived my whole adult life hoping the Republican party would finally go extinct, and that the center of all debates would shift far left of the current center. I almost regret it, watching this theater of craven greed, lies, and exploitation.
3
I wish the Democrats would ask President Trump one simple question - What taxes are you willing to raise in order to pay for this "urgent" expenditure?
12
@john f.
Good question. He can't legally take funds from one venue and transfer same to different venue. Congress is now controlled by anti-"Wall" Democrats. He got 1.5B to repair fencing; he hasn't spent it. He won't get 5.6B for a Wall.
This is both mealy-mouthed and persnickety at the same time.
"Stopping the flow of drugs across the southwest border would not entirely stem the flow of drugs across the United States. Moreover, it is not clear how reducing the cost of drug addiction would finance the wall."
You're just accepting his absurd premise that the wall could possibly stop all drugs from entering through the border. By doing so and labeling it "needing context" you're giving it credibility when it deserves none.
Meanwhile, earlier on you fault Trump on the use of "thousands" when the number is 1,700, as if that's on a par with the other blatant fabrications. It undermines your seriousness and gives some legitimacy to Trump's claim that he's treated harshly by the media, when in fact what he's noticing is that they go after him on things nobody cares about in the least while not spending enough time on all of the unfixable damage he's doing.
12
I agree.
Additionally, from what I’ve read, time & again, MOST illegal drugs that cross the Southern Border apparently come through legal points of entry.
Never mind through tunnels near the San Diego area.....
Thus, how would Trump’s new wall help solve this particular problem?
A secondary point is that “the party of personal responsibility” is making it sound as if Americans are completely helpless against the scourge of foreign drugs.
How can we resist & survive against the tsunami of drugs that arrive from South of the Border?
Well, we grow our own pot, we make our own meth. If China can create fentanyl, I don’t know why we ultimately can’t as well.
Certainly, it’s likely cheaper, easier & less legally risky for most Americans to consume imported drugs.
I suspect however, that if foreign supplies dropped dramatically, domestic production would increase.
Perhaps the costs associated with native grow/production would never reach the lows of imported product, and thus consumption might decrease overall. However....
Anyone really concerned about needless violence and death in this country would support sensible gun control. More innocents (including in law enforcement) are killed -- intentionally and accidentally -- by dangerous or simply reckless gun owners who are legally inside our borders.
20
Asking Americans to call their lawmakers, he added: “This is a choice between right and wrong, justice and injustice. This is about whether we fulfill our sacred duty to the American citizens we serve.”
Yes, Mr Trump. The problem is that you’re fighting on the wrong side of each question.
17
Trump knows his speech did not change anyone's opinion. This is just the prelude to enacting Emergency Powers to build the wall.
So, assume he does enact Emergency Powers, when/how does he reopen government?
7
I just have one question for all the Republicans who feel the same way Mr. Graham does. He said, “If we undercut the president, that’s the end of his presidency and the end of our party."
Who are you more loyal to? Your party or your family? Your children will be the ones to deal with any long term consequences of this. Maybe Mr. Graham doesn't care as much bc he has no children. But for the rest of you- truly. Who's side are you on?
15
Why bring up the subject of his children if you know he doesn’t have any?
1
Alright, my heart is slowing down. I'll reiterate; Troops on the border are acceptable as they would actually be "Defending the Nation" and can see and hear unlike a wall or barrier.
There is no national security risk from the good hard working Christian Hispanics.
We are confronted with a menacing hate filled President, clearly evident in the speech.
Most Americans probably feel as terror struck as I do after hearing the expertly presented psychological fear inducing examples of immigrant committed crime. Keep in mind those are but a few examples out of 320 Million people in our nation. The terror was palpable.
Dignified reservation was no match for sheer terror. The Democrats are entirely unconvincing as I had hoped for strength from them.
Trump's demeanor was reserved at first but rose to a crescendo of raw emotion in delivery of obvious hate inspired words.
That was essentially a speech with a political underpinning and the Television industry should be truly ashamed of themselves for presenting the speech. It scared me and I'm sure, many others.
On P.B.S. it was smartly pointed out that most illegal drugs enter through legal points of entry smuggled in varieties of ways. Even the women on P.B.S. commenting appeared shook up and somber.
Trump has been advised for years of the harm he presents to America, yet, he remains undeterred with his own persona in mind.
Resign Trump. You are destroying American society and endangering the nation. Resign.
12
I don't even think Trump believed Trump's speech.
14
People are coming across the border illegally because there are jobs here that may substantially more than jobs in Mexico and Central America. It’s far cheaper to enforce laws against employers hiring people here illegally than it is to build that wall. Funny how Trump and the Republicans have no interest in doing that though, isn’t it?
12
No where has anyone mentioned that Trump sent out campaign fund raising emails before and after his talk. They were misleading because they asked for donations toward the wall, but the money actually went to the 2020 campaign. This was really Trumps opening of his 2020 campaign.
11
Republicans are so enamored of privatization, why not privatize trump's beloved wall. Now that the 1% has trillions of tax break dough, they can surely afford to build the wall. According to trump he has billions, so he can certainly kick in a few to help MAGA.
While they are at it they should probably buy up any ladder in Mexico that is 5 feet taller than trump's wall, to avoid the embarrassment of anyone using that sophisticated technology to foil the wall's 11th Century technology.
5