We're largely ignoring what may be most offensive about Mr. Trump and his approach to the draft: his statements, on multiple occasions, that he served the equivalent of Viet Nam fighting sexually transmitted diseases in the newly permissive social life of NY in the late sixties.
It's offensive to everybody--whether you served or protested, had a lucky birthday, enlisted on judge's orders to avoid jail, enlisted because you believed it was the right thing to do, went through the C.O. hoops, fled to Canada or Sweden, or the course of your life has been deeply affected as a result of those making such decisions.
How any of "his" generals who'd been there could stand to be in his company is beyond understanding.
(Of course, Mr. Trump has also managed to dishonor Korean war vets; WWII vets, by completely getting the Nazi thing wrong (as well as ignoring the implications of 'America First', especially given possible family association with the Bundt); WWI servers, with his recent behavior in France; and the U.S. armies on the right side of the Civil War.
45
I’m sure we all regret decisions we made 50 years ago; especially those involving a war a large portion of the population sincerely believed was immoral and ultimately proven by the Pentagon Papers to be a fraudulent effort by US leaders to save face at the expense of hundreds of thousands of American and South Vietnamese lives for almost 20 years.
I’m several years younger than Mr. Trump, and did draw a high draft number. All of my closest friends did whatever they could to find medical reasons to avoid service, and when failing to do so, some went to Canada where they still reside.
Now at 70, with a lifetime of the trials and tribulations that come with it, the regret that I will take to my grave is that I failed to step up to support my country when that support was required. It took me 40 years to realize that enlisting would have been the right thing to do whatever the consequences.
My sincerest thanks and gratitude to those who did so then, and continue to serve and die today.
19
A commenter asks, rhetorically:
"Isn't really important that Trump and his doctors lied abut his alleged medical rational for a draft deferment,[?]"
Have we established that the doctor lied? I guess I missed that (perhaps because it didn't happen). The doctor's daughters, of course, are sure he lied, even though they never examined Trump and the doctor himself has been dead since 2007.
If the doctor was like the one to whom I paid $1,500 for a letter that Army doctors just laughed at, he probably exaggerated a medical condition that actually existed but that the patient didn't even know he had. If "my" doctor had flat-out lied, for example, presumably he'd have done a better job of it. I can assure you the Army doctor who looked at his $1,500 letter didn't think much of it; he told me to "just get on the bus" (which I didn't -- I thought, probably correctly, that getting on the bus would pretty much settle the issue).
1
I was RA in 1966 - 45's little chicanery around this time will have no more consequence than 43's absence from duty also around the same time; still thanks NYT for having this on the record
5
Not surprised at all, but I'm now not even remotely interested in this news. DJT is what he is, and the sooner that he is held accountable for the various misdeeds he's done, the better.
13
Meh. This old draftee says bone spurs were something easily checked by medical induction staffs and they were. And cheating would have cost this doc his medical license. Hence your story is more than doubtful.
2
The Hippocratic oath says First Do No Harm. If only Dr. Braunstein would have had an idea of the harm he was doing.
14
In dodging the draft for U.S. military service during the Vietnam-era, Trump did what many others, including Bill Clinton and nearly half of the draft-eligible population, did to avoid fighting a completely unnecessary military conflict supported by Democratic administrations in the 1960s. While the New York Times likely published this meaningless story as a distracting counterpoint to the news about Trump’s holiday visit with U.S. troops abroad, the story’s timing reflects an editorial judgment that is disrespectful of the brave men and women currently serving in our armed forces whom Trump sought to honor.
6
I believe having a case of "Bone Foot Spurs" leaves bone scars that never go away over a person's lifetime. An MRI will find any bone scars. If Trump really did have foot spurs, the MRI will show it, if no scars are found, he never had foot spurs, period in his lifetime! Have it checked out.
10
It is and has been for a long,long time that money talks in almost all cases and situations.
Not much new here and certainly no surprise that our Scam Artist-in-Chief would have been able to scam his way out of a
potentially unpleasant war.
During the civil War folks would pay other folks to go in their place !
Drumpf's situation was slightly more subtle;probably no cash changed hands but reduced or lower rents are certainly as good as extra cash in the pocket.
Bottom line: All this Home of the Brave stuff ain't necessarily so
11
This story seems to be based on pretty thin gruel. No records, just vague second-hand recollections of events and conversations from 50 years ago.
6
This is a very sad excuse for a newspaper story. I see nothing that fulfills any burden of truth. As a former newspaper reporter and editor I am sadden by this "gossip" column. I believe that some national media outlets and these absurd cable "news" shows have distorted the meaning of the the word journalism.
5
We already knew Trump could get a phony letter written by Trump and signed by his personal doctor who labeled Trump as " the healthiest person to ever run for the presidency". Clearly a fraudulent letter written in 2016 and not one peep from from most of the press, the GOP, not even the Democrats then. That MD should have lost his license for using it to sign a fraudulent letter. So why do we now harp on the fraudulent letters that gave the Carny Guy a 4F for a War that was a shameful and unjustified one that cost thousands of American lives and hundred of thousands of American disabilities for no good reason at all. The real travesties are the one that happened to swing the election, and to reek havoc on the public since Jan 2016.
7
Based on personal experience, there was no reason for DJT to receive a permanent medical deferment because he would have been fit to serve on active duty while biding his time at a desk job during post op recovery. I had s bone spur chopped off my left heal three decades ago and apart from investing in a pair of comfortable shoes during the approx. six-week healing process, my life continued as normal afterwards and since.
6
I had heel spurs. The Army said, "Drive on and welcome to the infantry and then welcome to Vietnam. I suspect Trump had some inside help at the local draft board. Lots of discounted rents?
17
@John Goudge That was one of the many problems with the draft -- it was administered by local draft boards in an erratic and inconsistent manner (even without the factor of financial or other relationship influence). Your life could depend on the district in which you were registered.
2
Things changed over the course of the Vietnam War.
In the earliest days, there were deferments for grad students and for any guy who was married, kids or not. Then married guys without kids could be drafted, and then grad students. During my time, undergraduates were deferred (I always was), but you could pretty much count on receiving a draft notice shortly after graduation (I got many even before that, but I ignored most of them -- until they started using red ink and phrases such as "6:15 A.M. Sharp!", which usually annoyed me so much that I'd round-file them immediately after reading (but at least I read them!).
Several readers have reminded me that undergraduate deferments eventually ended. Whatever the deferment situation was at the moment, every young man understood that --- sooner or later, and probably "sooner" -- the dreaded draft notice would show up in the mail and you'd have to deal with it one way or another. Some of us dodged Vietnam, but many of us didn't. Some of us who didn't really wanted to be there, but most of those young men became "patriotic" only after they realized that resistance was futile. Until then, they tried to dodge the draft just like the rest of us.
4
I’m going to say something that will probably draw the ire of just about everyone reading this: generally speaking, I don’t think serving in the military is an “honorable” thing to do. As an American grunt, you are almost always a pawn in a old white man’s power game; nothing more, nothing less. I have a deep compassion for the men (and women) who have suffered as a result of their serving, and I certainly have no animosity toward these people, but to think of military service as a noble endeavor is just playing into the narrative spun by those who are reaping the benefits of other people’s sacrifices. I don’t see this happening anytime soon, but I hope one day our culture can stop buying into the hypnotic-like propaganda around war. There are other, more meaningful ways to contribute to society and be a conscienti citizen.
And yes, I realize there were some wars and military actions that at least had somewhat decent intentions. Going into Vietnam and Iraq, however, don’t come to mind.
45
People are attacking Trump as though his avoiding the draft was rare. It wasn't
There were approximately 28 million men of draft age during the period of the Vietnam War.
Of that, about 14 million - HALF - received exemptions of some type that allowed them to avoid service.
Everyone who could got married, had children, stayed in school, relied on medical defects, specialized occupations, national guard service, or other means to gain repeated deferments. Not all of those men were wealthy or privileged.
Many who failed to receive deferments still tried and kept trying.
Repeat: HALF of draft-eligible men tried received exemptions. Trump was hardly alone.
4
I think you’re missing the point - Trump was born on 3rd base and he thinks he hit a triple. This is yet another example of how privileged people in society are “protected,” and how Trump, the supposed self-made patriot, is a fraud.
11
And, so, if HALF skirted the draft by fraud (which I doubt is true), then it's probably fair to say that at least HALF of the other guys who did go to Viet Nam, many to their deaths or grave injury, would
have been spared this suffering had the others been more honest.
8
The issue is, are those people today claiming to be super patriotic supporters of the country and the troops? I would bet most arent. It is the hypocricy that is the issue, not the extended efforts themselves to avoid the draft. Many who avoided service were conscienious objectors, and many of those were willing to spend time in jail or have their lives disrupted by fleeing to Canada as a result of their decisions. They didnt spend the war years partying and then publically boast that their Vietnam was avoiding STDs. They dont now claim to be the biggest supporters of the active troops and veterans. They arent in a position to impact the very lives of everyone of these men and women.
9
The draft board records do not reflect the reason for the 1-Y status. Everyone is reaching the bone spurs conclusion. Has anyone examined any records that the letter may have been from a psychiatrist?
11
Many people did both -- dodge the draft and protest against the War:
"The only truly ethical way to stop the dying was to protest against the war."
Frankly, we never thought about the next name on the list. Maybe we should have, but we didn't. Our argument was that NOBODY should be sent over to Vietnam, and quietly going there ourselves never seemed like a wise course of action. Better to dodge the draft, stay home and protest. Maybe that was selfish, but it didn't seem so at the time and, frankly, it doesn't seem so now. NOBODY should have been sent to fight and die in Vietnam, and going to Vietnam to fight and die was never the best way to get that point across.
10
I did. Trump's lottery number was 356:
"Has anybody ever followed up on Trump’s claim of a high lottery number?"
That high number pretty much assured Trump that he'd never be called. But until the lottery came along, one never knew (and some of us had very low lottery numbers, so it didn't change anything at all for us). Until the lottery, it was pretty "bone spurs" (or some other deferment) or Vietnam.
Several readers opine that dodging the draft (though we preferred the word "resistance" back then) was immoral because you were simply passing the buck down to the next person on the list. No thought appears to have been given to the person ABOVE us on the list, who'd passed the buck down to us, or to the fact that the person below us had almost certainly been on the list anyway. Whatever the "logic" of this argument may be, it never occurred to most of us (if any) to not resist the draft (aka "dodge the draft") because doing so would simply condemn the next person on the list. Somehow or other, it never struck me as effective to protest an immoral war by passively going over there and fighting in that war.
7
The truth is out there . Denial is a strong passion in the minds of some that dwell in an alternate mental universe . It is true that many avoided the draft either by running to Canada or getting daddy to fix things because he could . What I find offensive is how readily some voters accept what comes out of Trump's lies and derogatory comments of men and women who are honorable such as John McCain . Perhaps we only thought we were better than that . All high minded principles have been tossed aside by men like Trump ; we have regressed instead of progressed . It has nothing to do with the tired accusations of boogeymen whether they be liberal or conservative but more of tossing out truth and replacing it with crass lies and accepting them as truth . How we have fallen .
8
Isn't really important that Trump and his doctors lied abut his alleged medical rational for a draft deferment, after all he was a veritable special forces guy in the raging VD wars that devastated NYC in Trump's post college period.
6
Another reader asks, rhetorically:
"Would it be better if I had gone? Don't think so."
I did think about that, and I reached the very same conclusion. If I were a soldier in a firefight, would I really want my "backup" to be someone who didn't think he should be shooting Viet Cong or Viet Minh soldiers in the first place? Wouldn't that other American soldier be better off with someone else backing him up? How about the enemy soldier, if you didn't think he deserved to be shot?
Maybe this was nothing but a moral cop-out, but it seemed to me then, and still does, to make good sense not to have a draft-dodger as your backup -- especially if that draft dodge didn't think the enemy soldier trying to shoot you deserved to be shot at.
1
Amazingly,
{and stupidly in hind sight)
I was diagnosed as Platum Flatum Severum (flat feet - severe) by the induction doctor (Nam days) -
and was exempted from service;
but I talked him into Platum Flatum Modicum, so that I could go in....
3
Many wise men who realized how wrong the Viet Nam war was figured out ways to avoid the draft. So Trump did too, not a big deal, a bigger deal that he claims to not remember. It is arrogance and evasion of every issue that is personal and important about him that gets him into trouble. It is unfortunate that so many good, young americans and vietnamese lost their lives on a war that only benefited the military industrial complex. And here is trump now in Iraq, another war to benefit the military industrial complex (Cheney and his cronies) that also brought the chaos to the middle east and the world. Trump now celebrates that and continues the saga of foolish decisions that make America unsafe.
5
As a "NYT Pick" commenter notes:
"... many American men dodged the draft during the Vietnam war. Many liberals were against the war and the draft."
I find it ironic that many of those "liberals" now fault Trump for ordering US troops out of Syria and Afghanistan, and support Mad Dog Mattis because he wanted us to stay and send even more.
Trump often does the wrong thing (such as when he picked three ex-generals as top advisers in the first place), but not this time. We should never have gone into Syria or Iraq, and we should have left Afghanistan long ago. We've been in Afghanistan for 17 years -- 6 years after Osama bin Laden died in neighboring Pakistan! I find it rather difficult to consider our withdrawal as "precipitous" -- nor, frankly, do I much care that Mad Dog Mattis and most other generals opposed our withdrawal.
3
Lots of people called in favors or visited doctors willing to help one get an unfavorable diagnosis that resulted in a 4F classification, but that doesn’t make it ok, however, it appears that only one president did it.
In a word - DISGRACEFUL!
We’re no longer the suckers? We’re respected as a nation?
I think he’s been talking to himself while looking into a mirror.
The president threw years of sacrifice by our military under the bus and abandoned allies after a discussion with an autocratic thug and against the advice of his handpicked advisors.
This is insanity.
10
I am the same age as trump... Graduated college in 1968 just after tet. I was taking private pilot flying lessons at the time and the doctor they gave me my physical noticed that I had a varicocele, a harmless growth in one of my testicles and said that he could probably get me out of the draft. I didn't take him up on it even though I was 1-A, ripe for the draft. I got called for my draft physical and passed, but at the last minute was able to join the National Guard even without being on a waiting list or pull any strings. I did basic with draftees and regular army volunteers. I had debated whether to let myself get drafted and I was very happy that I had not because on graduation day from basic training, every draftee was sent into the infantry. Those that volunteered, even if they had an IQ of 50 and their knuckles dragged on the ground went to cook school, quartermaster school, etc. None went to the infantry.
3
But the bone spurs didn't seem to bother him when he played tennis or golf, did they?
25
As I think back to those days, the most remarkable thing may be how openly we talked about dodging the draft. Though there certainly were exceptions (and most of us knew when to keep our mouths shut), pretty much everywhere one went one felt entirely free, and inclined, to talk openly about whatever was then considered to be the most effective way to dodge the draft.
Sometimes being a "CO" ("conscientious objector") was "in;" sometimes scoliosis was the most promising route (or so I was told, before I'd wasted $1,500 on a "scoliosis" letter from a doctor who diagnosed me with that horrible affliction after just one visit). From this article, it sounds like "bone spurs" must have topped the charts for at least a while.
Whatever may have been most promising at the moment, we sure didn't hesitate to talk about it, to pass on "tips" to friends and even to total strangers (we didn't worry much then that some "total stranger" might be a government plant; perhaps we should have worried, but it was pretty safe to assume that everyone you encountered was strongly anti-War and wasn't reluctant to talk about it.
2
Scoliosis is not a "horrible affliction" unless it is severe, and if you had bothered ever to learn about the condition you paid for to buy yourself out of the military, you'd know that it indeed often can be diagnosed in a single visit. Ask any 11--13 year-old public school student who's had a check by the school nurse.
2
Back in those days, people avoided the draft in any number of ways. After a 4 year student deferment, I graduated with a BS degree in engineering. I had many job offers, and whether a particular job carried with it an industrial draft deferment was explicitly and openly discussed. I went to work for an oil company in New Jersey, which told me they would handle everythng, and that they had never had an engineer drafted, not even in World War 1 or World War 2.
I read their affidavits in support of my deferment appication. They were full of half truths and exaggeration. To read them, you would think I was running the entire place, and if I were to be drafted, the nation's entire source of helicopter engine lubricant would dry up.
But it got me out of participating in a stupid war of interference in a foreign nation determining its own future. Would it be better if I had gone? Don't think so.
Soon after, the draft was ended and we went to an all volunteer military force. After 9-11 many volunteered in the belief that national security required it. And of course, most did not enlist or do anything to benefit the nation's security.
So what was worse, avoiding a stupid war of intervention such as Vietnam, or refusing to participate when our national security was actually threatened? Why no condemnation of those who could have served after 9-11, but had better things to do instead?
6
Look at that draft board signature and compare it to the vicious slicing black marker signature of today.
A handwriting analyst would have a field day with it, but suffice to say, the psychopathy (obvious) is far worse now than back then...
15
I was in the US Navy from 1967 to 1971. I volunteered for Viet Nam. Donald Trump is the most despicable person I has ever seen in my 73 years of life.
66
It appears the late Dr. Braunstein committed a crime by falsifying medical records knowing they would be used to keep Trump Jr. out of Vietnam. Braunstein's family now must live with that sordid legacy, that their deceased father was a common criminal, corrupted by bribes and other favors. He sold his soul for that. As for Fred Tump, if true, it was a brilliant idea. He kept his son out of a miserable democrat war for pennies on the dollar. He did the right thing by his son. Any father of means would have done the same.
11
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
6
Breaking out the time machine for this one. Nice.
1
Has anybody ever followed up on Trump’s claim of a high lottery number? I don’t believe a word that he says.....Semper fi.....
13
@Eliza414
A big second on that. That absolutely needs to be checked and verified. 'Cause I'm not buying it either. (He lies so much, why / how can anyone take him at his word?)
2
Wow. These two sisters are going around and smearing their fathers reputation by telling people their father would make up diagnosis and lie about it to gain favors? No different than writing fake prescriptions.
10
But maybe they are trying to make up for their father's mistake by telling the story now, after first being approached by the NYT. And really, it is not clear that their father did what he did in order to get favors or in order to avoid being retaliated against by Fred and Don if he had refused -- remember, they held the lease to his livelihood and his means to support those two little girls (who were mere toddlers or nursery schoolers at the time).
5
So Trump did what a lot of other men from well-off families did to dodge the draft during the Vietnam War era. They paid a health care provider to either lie about or exagerate a nebulous medical condition. What's next for Trump historical news? That he was kidnapped and killed in Russia during the beauty pageant and Putin replaced him with a body double? Forget his feet. Check his DNA.
7
How is this news? Everyone was scrambling to dodge the draft or run off to Canada. Remember the song - "I'm only 16, have a ruptured spleen and I always carry a purse" - would not be PC today, which is exactly the point. Those were different times.
14
Those may have been different times, but not all of those avoiding military service during war time continued to lie and cheat and conspire their way through life, nor to the Presidency of these United States.
7
I'm curious to know something. When did Donald Trump changed his signature to what we see today? And what might the legal ramifications be for doing so? Can he claim now that official documents signed with his old signature are not his signature and not binding on him? Has he ever tried? Just curious.
4
The Viet Nam war was a war that no one wanted to fight. The protest movement was huge and many were motivated to do whatever they could to avoid the draft. I remember my brother's best friend killed soon after he was sent to Viet Nam. I had a brother-in-law who lost fingers and toes and ultimately died of an addiction to painkillers. I saw a friend miscarry a child, possibly due to her husband's exposure to agent orange. All of the people I mentioned were not wealthy. they had no powerful connections. There was no one able to buy their way out of the draft.
21
@Nora
And any one of them may have been in Vietnam Nam because young Don Trump wasn't.
4
I commiserate. With you. My husband was an army officer in Vietnam Nam. As an orphan he received help from the government and was in ROTC during college. He owed the regular army years of service. When he returned from Vietnam Nam as an Army officer, Airborne and Ranger... he was a different person. Years later and 4 children later he left us... his parting words were “This is because of Vietnam.”
7
Hated the war and the prospect of dying over there. When my college deferment ended I was drafted into the Army. I could have joined a reserve unit but I felt badly about doing that since some of my high school friends had already gone to Vietnam. I'm not going to judge Trump, he has to live everyday with what he did.
5
Some have suggested that we give DJT a “pass” for evading the Vietnam War, I strongly disagree. College Deferments were gone, even though I was only 18, I realized that if I used my family’s connections and influence to avoid the draft that someone else less privileged than me and most likely black would take my place, that was not something I could live with. Draft dodgers that left the country and fled to Canada were at least making a genuine sacrifice to avoid the war, some joined the National Guard, Trump skated by without consequence. I applied for Conscientious Objector status within the military, I knew it would be hard to get and it could be life threatening if I were a Medic, but it seemed like the honorable thing to do, I was terrified but at least took some comfort that if I died I felt that I'd made sure what I was asked to do was something positive. It took many appeals to finally get my CO status, luckily the war had been winding down and my Lottery number meant I was unlikely to be called to active duty. I’m convinced that if I had served I’d never have made it back in one piece, I’m eternally grateful my number just happened to be high enough to be spared, but at least I don’t have to be ashamed of why I never served. The sheer level of hypocrisy shown by Trump in his dealings with John McCain and the Four Star family absolutely astounds me, that someone who so blatantly avoided serving doesn’t know when to keep his mouth shut is disheartening in a President.
318
"I realized that if I used my family’s connections and influence to avoid the draft that someone else less privileged than me and most likely black would take my place, that was not something I could live with. "
Bless you for that. And for taking the pain to appeal for CO status. By doing so openly, you contributed to the efforts being made to get out of that ill-conceived war. And you helped train lawyers in CO appeals by giving them a case to fight.
Trump is just not up to your level. Maybe we should have elected you instead. Or at least someone with your sense of ethics.
32
@William B. Winburn
Thank you for your honesty. Honesty makes a huge difference.
24
I graduated from C.U. School of Engineering in 1964 and decided to join the Peace Corp because I respected JFK. The PC had started training volunteers for duty abroad a few years before I graduated, but I felt that I would honor his memory if I signed on. We trained for about 3 months on a college campus in the SE of our country. We spent more time learning to ride horses than learning to speak Spanish, but I still loved it.
When I got back from my post (Ecuador) I discovered that I not only could speak Spanish fairly well, but was no longer the timid boy I had been. I studied Russian and Japanese in a local college and found that engineering had prepared me well for languages, so I studied Chinese at a university in Flushing.
The Vietnam war had heated up in late 1966 and many of my classmates began protesting. That wasn't for me, but I wasn't afraid to write letters to my draft board (the same one as Donald's, I believe) and told them that I would go to war if they so decided, but I wouldn't shoot anyone I had nothing against. I was called in and, in front of about 15 men in uniform, asked why I wanted to be a conscientious objector. I said that I hadn't said that in my letter, only that I wouldn't kill another person I had nothing against. They told me to wait outside.
About 10 minutes later they called me in again and told me to go back to school, become a great teacher, and leave them alone. I was shocked!
DT was a coward and a bully then, as he is today.
31
So tired of all the "gotcha's" with Trump. We know who he is, and what he is, and how he was likely to operate in any given circumstance.
We don't need more evidence that he is unworthy to be our president. Time for somebody (Congress, wouldn't you think?) to do something about it.
18
I along with many others were called. We didn’t have rich parents
or were Senators Sons.
18
Does anybody remember what it was like back then? Alot of people didn't want to go to Vietnam, a far away place where they thought they had no business being, and end up killing other people.
6
And yet, so many obeyed the law, even when they had no desire to do so.
3
I can't understand how a man can retain his "populist" credibility when he used his elitist connections to get out of a war that the non-elite just had to suffer through.
27
Tax avoidance, tax evasion what's the difference? Big difference. Aside from being criminal, it also informs on one's character. W had no problem avoiding with poppy pulling strings for his shadow reserve service. But the golden boy with papa fred have the scam gene that has allowed him to become president and live a life unfettered by conscience or a sense of morality. Maybe those who legally avoided the service during Vietnam were less "patriotic" than those unfortunates who couldn't legitimately get medical, student, or employment deferments. Sometimes (like now) protest or resistance is high patriotism. And sometimes (like during Vietnam) avoiding was simply about the self preservation gene. Did it make sense to give one's life for the government's mistake? What a pity, all those names on that black granite wall in D.C. so that the evader in chief Donald could make the all his mistakes and wrong the country. But there he is in Iraq providing "moral" support for the troops.
11
It is curious that this story 'broke' right after the resignation of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, and just weeks after Chief of Staff John Kelly. Are we witnessing an internal power struggle between the President of the United States and the Defense establishment? Could it be interpreted as a precursor to a military Coup d' etat?
3
I'm 65 .......Getting out of Nam anyway possible was the "Smart" thing to do. Only the poor and patriotic participated in this war crime at the end. I was heading to Canada (never registered with the draft ) but got a high draft number and was spared. I was lucky but always felt bad for the returning guys who where messed up with PTSD and/or chemical contamination from Agent Orange.
8
@2ndSouth
Sure glad we didn’t have ‘men’ like you during world war 2.
We don’t get to choose our wars. Yes, the Vietnam war
Turned out badly and it was wasteful in blood and treasure
But the men didn’t know that in the beginning. They were called up to fight for their country and defend it. If your thinking did I serve yes I did, 4 years in the US Air Force.
5
In my first day of Basic Training, in November 1964, a draftee in my platoon told me he had weak cartilage in his knees, a congenital condition that made them vulnerable. He said that he'd presented letters from two doctors saying that, if he was made to run or even walk a long way, he would almost surely be injured, quite possibly permanently. The draft board didn't care: they had a quota. On the second day we had to swing under a horizontal ladder, then drop about two feet to the ground. He cried out and collapsed. When we left Basic ten weeks later (there was a two week break for the holidays), he was still in the post hospital. I guess his father didn't own enough buildings.
388
This is both so Trump, and very much of the era.
The comments and thoughts on this I am most interested would be from veterans who did serve, in theater, in combat.
They must be the ultimate judge of an experience they had, one they couldn't or wouldn't turn away from, or even signed up for.
Theirs is the only real measure and opinion that matters.
7
so Trump dodeged the Vietnam draft.
is anyone surprised ?!
NOTHING could / should surprise us about Trump any longer.
actually, the only surprise ( and great concern !) is the political paralysis preventing ridding the country ( and the world) from this abominable nightmare.
28
The appropriate response to an immoral situation is to refuse to participate, by any means necessary. That holds true for the people turning down offers to serve in 45’s administration as well as those who avoided slaughtering innocents on behalf of LBJ, Tricky Dick, and the military-industrial-political complex.
7
@Charles: I agree with you as a general rule, but do you have any specific information that would show that Trump had moral objections to serving? My sense is only that he wanted to save his own hide, but was perfectly happy with other people being sacrificed for nothing.
13
After what's been reported over the past three years, I don't believe for one minute that Trump has any ethical or moral convictions that extend beyond enriching himself. Call this what it is: cowardice.
7
Looking at the selective service register that accompanied the article my first thought was whether anyone else named on the registered was drafted and either died or was a casualty in the war.
10
Very simple to know if this is true. Ask trump to undergo foot Xrays and release the results (along with his tax returns).
If he has nothing to hide, I am sure he will be happy to comply, just like he did when providing Bill Maher with his birth certificate to prove that his father was not an ornagutan. This really happened after Maher challenged him on this issue.
13
I'm ashamed to read the apologies for this deferment trick written by people who also dodged the draft. Just because they think Vietnam was 'immoral' ( it was).
Let's get this story straight: 1- Papa Trump arm-twisted a respected foot-doctor to write a phony diagnosis, which is a violation of the doctor's oath. To keep that corruption from going public, Papa bought off the man, by keeping his rent low. Little Donald then learns "the art of the favor'.
2- Hundreds of thousands of young men did not have millionaire papas who owned blocks of urban properties, some, with medical offices. They went and they died.
31
It makes me mad that so many who are all too happy to send the children of others off to war were not willing to serve themselves. Show me a war hawk and you will often find someone who dodged the draft or never volunteered.
Robert Mueller volunteered for Vietnam, Mr Trump. He also went through the US Army's Ranger training as a Marine. He led troops on the DMZ during a very tough time of a very tough war. After that his career in Law Enforcement that culminated in being FBI Director ensued.
Even in these times I am hoping that the good guy wins in the end and that is not Cadet Bonespurs.
31
One of most troubling aspects of this matter was Trump's long term assertion that he got a high draft lottery number out of college. Anyone who was subject to the draft during that time knew that was false since Trump graduated in 1968 and the televised lottery was in the beginning of 1969 and draft physicals were often only weeks after graduation when the student deferment status terminated. Its almost fifty years since I viewed the lottery show on TV and the experience is still vivid; of the thirty guys in that dorm room none got a number of 200 or higher which might on the basis of the lottery be able avoid the draft.
7
A piece of great irrelevance 50 years after the fact and of absolutely no consequence, unless you would like to reinforce the impression the NYT likes to do hit pieces on Trump. Spilling ink on this a great editorial blunder, or would it just be correct to assume it's been a couple of slow news days recently.
10
@Bongo For me, this confirms (again) that this man's whole life is a fraud. How he can look any of those serving soldiers in Iraq in the eye without feeling something akin to shame is beyond me. This may be part of the reason why he waited 2 years to go overseas but then who knows how this man's brain works.
17
This alone--employing fraud to evade military service--should be sufficient for impeachment.
25
Why is this newsworthy? I have always assumed that Donald Trump, like most draft age sons of wealthy families, paid off someone to get a medical deferment.
10
it's newsworthy because we have facts that back up your supposition.
12
@USexpat
Yes, maybe there were many sons of wealthy families who routinely paid off someone, as you suggest, but this particular one is newsworthy because he can't keep his mouth shut about how tough he is, and how much he supports the troops, etc. This particular one disrespects war heroes like Sen. McCain and insults the parents and spouses of the fallen. This particular one is a disgrace to serve as Commander in Chief.
10
Interesting that as soon as this story broke, Trump FINALLY made a visit to troops in Iraq. Look: A lot of people tried to get out of the draft because they were scared and the war had questionable motives. However, what makes Trump’s actions cowardice is the way in which he has attacked brave veterans (ie McCain). He would always portray himself as tough and strong. But he never once flew into a war zone like Afghanistan or Iraq. I think it’s because he was always scared. With the latest story about the heel spurs, he probably realized it was becoming totally apparent that POTUS was, and is, a coward.
26
@Hugh Jorgen
I assume the NYTimes, as all reputable publications do, contacted WH staff to get a comment on this before publication. A day ahead of time, two, a week?
Also assuming WH had none to offer / refused to respond.
Was the trip planning well underway at whatever point that was, and it's just a 'trippy' coincidence that it all broke over the holiday?
Or did his staff implore him to finally make a visit, and he actually took their good advice this one time?
I detest 45, but I hope he learned something from this experience. A big wish, I know ...
As much as I despise trump and all of his nonsense this is one issue I cannot vilify him for. I was around during that time though I was not old enough for the draft (had older brothers who were). It was a nasty, ugly time in the country with little support for an ill-conceived war in a country where we had no business being. People did some drastic things to avoid it.
11
My boyfriend's brother refused induction and had to hire a lawyer and go to court to argue for Conscientous Objector status.
If everyone who didn't want to go to Vietnam had done that, the war might have been stopped a whole lot sooner.
I stood out in the pouring rain handing out flyers to antiwar demonstrations when I was a 13 year old.
Trump's approach to the problem of Vietnam helped absolutely no one but himself.
12
@J Darby: Yes, and those who had both a moral objection to it and a strong moral compass applied for conscientious objector status, didn't they? Those are the ones I admire.
10
Draft Dodger Don should make no mention, ever, of support for our military. He doesn't have the right!
21
Who cares about the fake bone spurs? We get it, you didn’t want to goto Vietnam. It’s the lying about it that is the issue.
21
I know a lot of Vietnam Vets who hate Jane Fonda and love Donald Trump. I wonder, will they realize that Trump did more for North Vietnam than Fonda did. She went. He didn't.
24
Enough already. New York Times. How low can you go? As the wife of a Vietnam Veteran, I don't care nor does he. What counts is the type of President we currently have; and we, like most conservatives, think he's wonderful!
Come up with the next piece of nonsense and continue making fools of a paper that used to be great & is laughed at by many today.
9
If you support trump you are not by definition a “conservative” since his policies cannot be termed by the very definition of conservative. Look it up in any dictionary. On the other hand those who support this president would be supporters of Trumpism which by definition means representing only those that agree with and are agreeable to one person, disregarding political norms, lack of a defined political belief and beholden to the daily reversals based on disinformation obtained by sources that make up news rather than reported facts based on several sources that have been verified, interest of a person in the office rather than the general well-being of the country, working with other countries that are totalitarian and making enemies with countries that are fellow democracies, against the rule of law and the constitution. History will not bode well for those who are defined as Trumpists, just as the Know-Nothings and other political movements have been regarded.
16
@Jody
I really appreciate hearing your opinion.
I am not a fan of 45 by any means, but your views, and that of your spouse -- who I hope is well -- is the most important aspect to this episode in Donald Trump's life.
Only an active combat Vietnam veteran, or his/her spouse can have a meaningful 'vote' on this.
I wish you all the best in the New Year.
1
4F Individual #1 not only bought his way out of the draft but bought his way into presidency via Russia/Putin.
10
The Trump family was and is a criminal enterprise who use people to get what they want. No doubt Donald's dad probably paid for his diploma at Wharton since he doesn't know anything. Trump has lived his life under his daddy's wing, never having the intelligence to go out and pull himself up by the bootstraps.
15
Okay who’s actually surprised by this?
< crickets >
That’s what I thought. The man is a pathological liar, but most Times readers already knew that.
‘I love the uneducated!’
Because they are the easiest to lie to. So sad, so true; that’s how we got into this mess. Those people still believe the man is an honest, genuine, and intelligent leader. I’m not kidding, check the polls. This is not going to be a easy or quick problem to correct, and we’re still heading in the wrong direction today. Ignorance and stupidity are growing, education reform is falling behind, and inequality continues to grow.
The movie Idiocracy, if released today, might not be considered a comedy.
14
Well well, the hero who must not be named can now now be called president bone spur. When a coward insults your bravery it is not an insult, may the true hero McCain Rest In Peace.
15
Can't fault anyone using any connections to get out of serving in that war. If there was still a draft I doubt the US would be so quick to get and stay in conflicts that don't seem to be in the nat'l interest and which we don't seem to win.
6
It would be wonderful if everyone who served could have been saved involvement in this tragic war. So it is hard to hold this against a father.
What cannot be overlooked is that one got spared in this way should then make much pretense about an honest deferment, mock a man who served, was captured and tortured; and mock others who were not honest in their own self-presentations regarding the war.
18
You can rest assured that like many outer borough residents during Vietnam the Trump family was quite supportive of the war. They were most likely more than ok with having working class kids from other neighborhoods bear the burden. Woodside and Sunnyside having the highest casualty rate of any zip code. Considering they were in the construction industry they must have cheered on the May 1970 hardhat riots just a couple of weeks after Kent state.
14
There isn't a lot of disgrace in having done whatever it takes to avoid serving in the Vietnam war. It's nothing to be proud of, but the war was a tragic mistake, and a dark chapter in our history.
The disgrace comes from demeaning the people who either volunteered or were conscripted to fight, and who honorable served their country. Those who found a way to avoid the draft should remember that others who were wounded, killed or forever traumatized had taken their place on the battlefield.
18
Let me preface this comment by stating my bona fides: I despise Trump and believe that he has lived his life in a sea of corruption and lies. That said, this article may be unfair in implying that he received a deferment because of a bogus diagnosis of bone spurs. I failed Army physicals in 1968 and 1969 because of a torn ACL and torn meniscus in my knee, much more severe injuries than bone spurs. Each time, after completing the entire physical, I had to present my case to an Army orthopedist, who both reviewed my personal orthopedist's report and accompanying xrays (no MRIs in the 1960s) and conducted his own examination. I cannot imagine that Trump would have received less scrutiny or that an examination by the Army physician would not have disclosed an exaggerated or false diagnosis of bone spurs.
6
@Alex: nobody got out of Vietnam on JUST a family doctor's "letter".
The military had/has their own doctors and do their OWN examinations.
So if this story is remotely true…Fred Trump did not merely buy off Dr. Braunstein with decades of cheap rent (!!!).
He also bought out all the Army doctors!!! all of them! at least two examine each candidate. And Fred Trump could not have known WHICH TWO would examine his son Donald. SO HE HAD TO BRIBE THEM ALL???
People are not thinking this through. If Fred Trump bribed all the Army induction doctors….then the corruption and payola is a far, far bigger story than "did Little Donnie get off on phony bone spurs". It throws the entire SYSTEM into question!
A log of things have happened in the past which should not have happened including a certain DJT becoming the President. That he received draft deferment based on a phony medical exam was not uncommon as I understand it; a lot of rich kids got those, and I don’t think this particular incident impacted the 2016 elections.
It only reinforces belief for most of us that he is a conman, and will do, say, tweet anything that suits his purpose.
9
If I was rich and connected- I would do the same for my son in a New York second.
7
@Aaron: So which poor, unconnected person would you have chosen to take your son's place?
11
I would only be surprised if the story was that Trump actually had bone spurs. Weaseling out of the draft with a fake diagnosis is what anyone could expect from somebody who shirked responsibility and violated laws pretty much his entire life. The actual cowardice is not so much dodging the draft, but the militaristic language and I'm so tough attitude that people like Trump then display to make up for chickening out. Why else would he have an almost pathological need to surround himself with his "generals"? People who saw action and know war first hand typically don't have that need; examples across the political spectrum include JFK and George H.W. Bush. They got that out of their system before becoming President.
14
What is baffling to me is why Trump would be going to Elizabeth II’s podiatrist in the first place. (Although I think they’re called “chiropodists” over there.) Wasn’t a US podiatrist good enough? Do they know something about feet that we don’t? And why would the Queen, a noted dog-lover, lend her specialist to a man who openly prefers cats?
8
Queens, not Queen's. The apostrophe justified its existence today.
8
The Draft Lottery for Vietnam was first held in December, 1969. My birthday was November 10 and my number chosen was 282 from 366 randomly chosen numbers and was in the upper third of the numbers chosen. The information we received was that those in the upper third were unlikely to be drafted if you were from moderate to large size towns with eligible young men. Donald Trump was born June 14, 1946 and included in this first drawing. His number was 356. It is plausible that he would never have been selected coming from a large borough like Queens. So, I think it is fair to say he was accurate in stating he had a high number and this may have prevented him from serving. He may have felt the need to double down and have his dad leverage someone to provide a deferment category like bone spurs. At the time, i can recall discussions about ways to avoid being selected. For example, if you enrolled in pre-med you could prolong your availability for years and await wars end. A good strategy since the US involvement technically ended in August, 1973. I am a liberal Democrat and voted for Hillary. So, I am not a fan of Trump and wish he were no longer president. However, the reporting in the NYT can sometime bend the facts and it would have taken little effort to corroborate his draft exposure based on his comments and the bone spur deferral is not well documented. My point is, the only way to nail Trump is to have complete unvarnished facts of criminal wrongdoing. You can do better. RH
11
Let's all be clear here please about one thing: getting out of Vietnam did not mean you were saving a life. It just meant you were nominating somebody else you didn't know to die for you.
The only truly ethical way to stop the dying was to protest against the war. And Donald Trump never did that. Because he's not a person who has ever concerned himself with morality or ethics.
18
The importance of this story is this: 46-1 uses people, professionals, in his pursuit of profit & privilege. He learned this at his father’s knee. He learned to lie, grift, to do whatever to evade the law - in this case the draft - because the laws - tax, draft, Constitution- don’t apply to him & his family. It’s not going to change.
6
That Trump avoided the Vietnam draft due to "bone spurs" is not new information. What is a "disgrace" is how Trump insults those who served their country. Examples: John McCain, Admiral McRaven, Captain Humayun Khan and of course, Robert Mueller. Trump just made a surprise visit to the troops in Iraq. It only took him two years to work up the courage to do so. No doubt that visit is another effort to divert public attention away from his many failures.
15
The troops who are greeting him today in Iraq should have been required to read this article and some comments before meeting him and taking selfies with him.
5
Don't forget those whose connected/wealthy fathers got them much coveted spots in the National Guard (I'm lookin at you, W).
8
No shame in avoiding Vietnam. The war was wrong. Shame should lie with those who promoted it and extended its scope. Gulf of Tonkin anyone?
5
There was no shame in opposing Vietnam. There was well-deserved shame in avoiding it through elite connections in secret while failing to stand up and oppose it openly in public.
6
Having grown up in a middle class family in Brooklyn, and in h.s. and college during the War, I can tell you the lengths that many young men my age went to avoid the draft. Lots of physicians were visited in the hope of a ‘favorable’ diagnosis. I had a student deferment through college and grad school, but I often thought of those, many of them much poorer and not in school, who went in my place. Later, when I used to go to DC on business, I usually visited the VN War memorial. Call it guilt, but many of my generation thought going to VN was akin to a death sentence, which it was for far too many. The war lasted far too long after Nixon promised in ‘68 to end it sooner. In fact, it never should have started.
6
It would be more convincing if evidence of tennis playing or the like after the bone spur diagnosis. Ideally, a photo, since it speaks a thousand words. Trump was known to be somewhat of a jock during, roughly, this period of time.
The article states that records only "suggest" a counter to Trump's statements that a high draft number was ultimately what saved him from being drafted. We know that the medical deferment alone have saved him during the year prior to the lottery. Public records undoubtedly exist to show definitely whether or not Trump is lying about the high draft number fpr the period after the lottery was initiated. His birthday is June 14. What was the draft number pulled out of the hat for all who were born on that same date?
2
I can’t tell from the article it’s a known fact he didn’t have bone spurs, and the doctors made it up- just that the doctors were tenants of his father.
I understand what they are implying, but it’s proof of nothing.
I wonder if the doctor’s daughter said she knows for a fact DT has bone spurs because her Dad said so if she would have been considered a factual source.
All she confirms is Dad talked about being the doctor for a local big shots kid. I’ve been to enough kids birthday parties to hear parents brag about similar local or celebrity touchpoints. People are always seeking relevance or oneupmanship.
Is Trump a liar? Yes! This is common knowledge. Using that with implication to mask this as some hard hitting expose takes away credibility from the media. The people that love Trump will ignore this. The ones that hate Trump will love this. The needle doesn’t move.
What purpose does any of this serve? Go hunt down something concrete, unassailable and that doesn’t smell of grasping at straws.
With all the people in power that detest him, how come no one has a smoking gun so bad it doesn’t force every congressman’s hand regardless of political leanings to impeach this guy?
Morality can’t be judged by an immoral society, so let’s find something that’s black and white illegal without any need to use circumstance, implication, conjecture, or perspective, shady third parties, dead third parties, or here say to interpret the crime.
Stop giving him meaningless press!
11
@Matt
You neglected to mention that Michael Cohen is going to jail.
In addition to being sentenced, he offered
evidence against the most powerful person
in our country - namely Donald Trump.
That's one curtain we already know has been pulled off of your Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz.
And you didn't mention it, so your argument falls flat on its face.
PS It won't be the last.
2
@Matt
It is high time you woke up: pretty much everything about D.J. Trump is "immoral" (his income, his business dealings, his relationships with women, his election the against popular vote, his contempt for the American people, his tantrums with our allies, his sheer ignorance on environment issues, etc.). You are entitled to support him, but please do insult our intelligence.
3
Interesting that in Israel, college/university education is deferred until AFTER conscripted military service (except for rare instances for some people pursuing medical doctor education, in which case their required service may be deferred but once they receive their MD, they must serve in the military for more years than their compatriots who enter the military during the year after high school graduation. As a result, their university students tend to be much more mature and making better use of their post-secondary years than does the average 17-21 year old American college student.
8
@Wondering Jew
You forgot to mention that "Ultra-Orthodox" are exempt from compulsory service! This has been a point of contention for many Israelis. The ultra-orthodox clergy won't let their sons or daughters serve - but throw a complete fit when they find out the IDF doesn't provide enough Kosher meals! Give me a break!
12
@Aaron No, I didn't "forget" to mention the fact you raised. Though those you call out are not dodging the draft, technically, but are legally (if maybe problematically) exempt from it, the reason given being that they are doing another form of service by praying and such. Personally, I don't think that's adequate reason, particularly since they can pray as they serve. But one point to make is that other very orthodox (but not the ultra ultra heredim you mentioned) might also not serve in the military under something like conscientious objector, but, if that is the case, they are still required to serve the country for at least the same number of years via (unpaid?) public service such as helping refugees, the poor, the elderly, and so forth.
1
Not the least surprising, especially for Vietnam. What is nauseating is the hypocrisy of statements like 'John McCain isn't worthy of being called a hero' because McCain was shot down while risking his life flying over enemy territory. He bailed out was taken prisoner and tortured. He got alternating, better then worse, treatment than the average flyer because his daddy was an admiral in the Pacific command. So while John McCain filled a family tradition going back generations to serve America, Donald Trump had a different experience. One father so loved our nation as to risk his son's life in serving, when as a commanding admiral he could have surely sent his son out of harms way. The other father used his influence as a doctor's landlord to medically hide his son from the draft and let the black and other poor boys to whom he would not rent apartments to, serve instead. Hopefully this is finally an issue that even his base will choke on.
28
This article certainly confirms the lack of character in both Trump and his father. Let's not forget that Robert Mueller tried to enlist, was turned down by a real college injury, then recuperated and enlisted again and served honorably and heroically in Vietnam.
One is a person who used his privilege to dodge the draft and his duty letting others serve and die. The other also grew up wealthy but was bound by a sense of honor to volunteer to go fight for his country when he was already excused for legitimate reasons.
Let's all remember this when we compare their integrity and truthfulness in the months to come.
37
Thank you for reminding us of this important distinction.
9
Clearly not the only one of the ‘medical reports’ that were fudged to get Trump where he wants ,and doesn’t want, to be. His medical status reports published for the presidency were also quite questionable. Written by doctors who were ‘questionable’ and likely also promised something to fudge. But then again, this nation tolerated being lied to about R. Reagan’s increasingly noticeable degeneration from Alzheimer’s for years. Fortunately Reagan had people around him who could run his government his last term while he slept through meetings and forgot names, places, events, policy, history and what he had to say. DT illness differs, and as a narcissist doesn’t allow that.
6
Tabloid stuff at the end of the day. There are many (too many) real disqualifying facts about this president and his manifest unfitness. This is not one of those factors.
Take it from someone who had a draft board physical at Fort Hamilton slightly later than Trump's era and before the draft was abolished. Someone who actually had a high lottery number and could not get any further deferments for post grad higher education.
It was open knowledge then that the draft system was rigged. If you had a physician or two in the family, if you knew the right politician and if you had the trifecta of those two factors and wealth besides. You were safe. Trump played the same card that hundreds of others played then.
With notable exceptions like Kerry and McCain, Vietnam was a war fought by working class and lower-middle class whites and minorities. The only blue collar whites who were safe were those who suddenly had a call from God to enter ministry and college athletes getting a call in a different kind of draft, for a major league professional sport. In the latter case strings were pulled.
8
By 1968, many young men who were even slightly observant of the lack of rationale for the Vietnam War did whatever they could do to avoid being drafted and sent into such a negative value, disastrous event. This does not explain why Dubwa, Cheney & Trump all avoided military service at that time. These three Chicken Hawks were unpatriotic cheaters at that time, and have continued on with that approach in all aspects of their lives to this very day.
11
I can't help but wonder what possible good can come out of this?
3
This just puts Trump in the same category as all the other bloodthirsty neocons who dodged military service while sending others less rich or connected to die for their foolish wars of choice. Like Cheney or GW Bush, or Rumsfeld.
11
Bone spurs are permanent. If Trump really has them, he could very easily provide proof through a simple X-ray. I’m holding my breath...
12
I certainly did not want to go to Vietnam. Apart from a healthy fear of death, I deeply believed the war was immoral and criminally wrongheaded. No doctor was involved. I told them I was crazy, and they seemed inclined to take my word for it. I try to respect both the brave and the foolish who went willingly, but continue to strenuously resist any attempts to claim that it was a war that in any way served either American interests or American ideals. I hope some day the United States will elect a president who is not obligated to lie about the Vietnam war.
3
I'm glad you got out, but somebody else most likely went unwillingly in your place.
1
Fifty years of hindsight helps deal with any Vietnam guilt trips. It was every man for himself in 1968.
2
That Trump is a self-serving draft dodger should surprise no one. But if this fact had the capacity to damage him in the public, it would have already. Even if these two women had documentary proof of their claims, which they don’t, they still wouldn’t move the needle. Trumps supporters exult in jubilation that migrant children are being ripped away from their mothers. Do you really think they care that their hero dodged the war 5 decades ago?
7
thanks. this story is my laugh for the day. no proof as usual. just hearsay from a bunch of liberal democrats with an ax to grind. Clinton never served. Bernie never served. Corey Booker never served. Chuck Schumer never served. Get over it. Really, I'd like to see military service be a requirement for all politicians. We'd probably get rid of most of the weasels in the House and Senate.
10
Karen, Trump is the only one of them who insulted, disrespected, and dishonored McCain and Gold Star families for their losses. All of the Dems you mentioned have shown respect for vets and their surviving families.
10
@Karen - Clinton, Booker et al don't go around disparaging people who served in the military and they aren't war mongers either.
11
Sanders, born in 1941, applied for consciousness objector status, but by the time his application was rejected, he was too old to be drafted.
Schumer was at Harvard working on his undergraduate and law degrees; he graduated in 1974.
Clinton, who opposed the war, decided to serve in ROTC, then decided against it. Deeming it dishonorable to use ROTC or the National Guard to avoid Vietnam, he chose to register for the draft. Because of time spent deciding, Clinton received a high draft number.
Booker, born in 1969, couldn't possibly have served in Vietnam.
Nobody's an angel—not even our super-patriotic former Vice President Dick Cheney. He received five deferments.
3
Dear NY Times,
We've come to a point in this disastrous presidency where this story simply doesn't matter. There are too many other consequential things happening, right now, that are directly the result of this man's incompetency and personality disorder, that the NY Times and it's readers are better off focusing on. We also know, that if Trump had served in Vietnam he would not have changed the outcome of that war.
7
But if he had served in Vietnam, it may have changed the course of subsequent history, including who was on the ballots in 2016 and who the Electoral College votes for.
2
This article was so powerful and embarrassing that it seems to have inspired Trump to head to Iraq on a moments notice. He will hang at the airbase and be back in a jiffy.
7
I opposed the war and so did at least half of my family, but there were no options to the draft in our view. If your number comes up, you go.
Maybe you could get a deferment, or get a 4F. I was saved by a number in the end.
No one in my family was proud of the war, or had illusions about the cause, and results.
All of the subsequent conflicts, same discussion, different places.
3
Little of this is at all shocking. I was called for a military physical my first year in college after receiving a low lottery number. When I arrived for my examination, I witnessed many of my clearly healthy classmates who had been called for pre-induction physicals whipping out letters from some home town doc at the examination station attesting to their trick knees and bad backs which were asserted to be a disqualification for military service. These "walking wounded" included several participants in intercollegiate sports, along with quite a few ardent intramural sports participants I had played against. What was problematic about all this was the inability or lack of resources on the part of the military doctors to refute these questionable letters, thus resulting in another less clever person getting the call in lieu of my classmates. By the way, I served in the Army for 30 years and was very glad for that opportunity.
16
I would pay all of the bucks my retirement accounts have lost, however temporarily, as a result of Mr. Trump's December, to hear what former V.P. Al Gore thinks about this.
Somehow his detractors always forget that Mr. Gore served in Viet Nam.
While some vets may have or have had negative thoughts about those who opposed the war or escaped serving, surprisingly few seem to feel that way--but as one commenter says, honesty is the issue.
15
His base doesn’t care. Hate to say it but it’s a non-story now.
7
As someone Trump's age I can tell you if I could have received a bone spur exemption from that war I would have jumped all over it. I'm far more distressed by the guys my age who were on the fringes of the war and now proudly wear their Vietnam Veteran hats. I am very appreciative of Lowes" 10% military veteran discount, but every time a cashier thanks me for my service I tell her/him "it was not exactly voluntary." Trump has done a lot of things wrong in his life, but avoiding that war was not one of them..in my opinion.
10
@Glenn The problem is not that 45 did not serve, it is that he has too often disrespected those who did. Hypocrisy, they name is Donald.
15
But when one person lied his way out of Vietnam, that only meant the next honest person on the draft list took his place.
The liar hasn't stopped or reduced the dying. He's just transferred the death burden to the people who are less wealthy and more honest.
A lot of that going around now in the White House. Hmmm, think they could be related?
6
During the campaign, Trump loved to boast about how as a businessman he knew how to play all the angles when it came to getting favors from politicians, so should it be any surprise that he and his family used similar tools to avoid being sent to Vietnam? The other side of his campaign boasts was that since he knew all the angles, he would be ready to kill any attempts to defraud the American people. This would presume that Trump would undergo a change once in office. We're still waiting.
6
Wasn’t Trump the one who doesn’t like heroes coming home alive from places he never went to?
7
Thousands of young men escaped the draft for Vietnam by doing things like this in the '60 and '70s. Others left for Canada and Europe. The Vietnam War was a pointless waste of life and treasury. Most of us knew it at the time, and it's been proven so since. Of all the despicable things Drumpf has done and is doing in his life, this particular thing is way way down the list...
8
Tens of thousands or more volunteered. Hundreds of thousands or more served in Vietnam.
My next door neighbor was killed in Vietnam in 1968. Another neighbor volunteered and came back with PTSD. He recovered luckily. I’ve known everyone from radio operators to helicopter pilots. I’ve known seals, army rangers and green berets.
No one is under any illusion it was a well chosen, well planned or well run war. But I don’t know a single person who went to Canada. I was 1A and 2S during the war years. I felt Daniel Ellsberg told the right story of the war. I would not have gone to Canada if drafted. And if in My Lai - I’m quite sure I would have aimed my rifle at Lt. Caley.
Still dodging the draft was not an option. And how cheap - a heel spur. But heel spurs still count for at least 15% on your disability rating...
4
@Snarkk
Tell that to the parents, siblings, spouse, and children of the non-lying, honorable guy who took his place!
Don't know who exactly that may be? Then assume it is any of the thousands of young men whose name is on the Vietnam War Memorial, and go apologize to their children and grandchildren and spouse and parents. And pay their college and assisted living bills while you're at it. And tell your own children and grandchildren that they exist today because (Grand)Daddy let someone else go to his death after (Grand)Daddy snarkked and snook out of military service on a bed of lies.
3
Who can honestly say they would not have used connections to avoid going to Vietnam? Or used connections to prevent a son from going? Of, if you're my age, don't know people whose families aided them in avoiding Vietnam?
6
I know of at least one person who volunteered for the military, even during times the draft was in place. That was a more honorable way to deal with the throw-of-a-dice assignments of the draft. Get to choose which branch of military in which to serve, but still serve, nonetheless.
7
Hmm, I seem to recall hundreds of thousands (millions?) of fellow Americans entering the US military since 9/11/2001, since the start of both wars in Central Asia, and millions
before then (serving in Granada, Lebanon, Somalia, Central America, the 1st Iraq War, the Korean DMZ, all of our embassies worldwide, etc etc. No asking for favors or conspiring to falsify medical records. Maybe it's time for you to step out of your military-protected bubble.
3
@Person - Actually, a lot of people enlisted instead of being drafted not to be honorable, but to decrease their chances of being sent to Viet Nam. The belief was that if you were drafted, it was only for 2 years, but you'd almost surely go to Viet Nam. If you enlisted, you were in for 4 years, but you had a greater chance or choosing you assignment and wouldn't necessarily go to Viet Nam.
1
He is a con man, always was.
Everything from his bogus foundation to his multiple bankruptcies to coordinating Russia’s involvement in the election to marital infidelities, to foreign policy decisions in support of his personal wealth to the family’s tax fraud schemes to the ultimate con on the American people in November 2016 point to this conclusion.
President Trump is a con man.
12
And we add yet another piece to the the Life and Times of Con-Man Donald J. Trump puzzle.
6
My ex brother in law did the same thing, diagnosed with arthritis in his knees. His parents were all for it after his older brother came home from Vietnam a mental wreck. In a couple a years he was skiing.
3
He should have gone to prison instead, like the honest men who owned up and refused induction on moral principle.
5
As much as I hate Donald, many thousands of young men, avoided service in this immoral disgusting war in similar manners. We had a list of many doctors who would write letters to bring to pre-induction physicals to secure 1y's. Not a crime at all but an example of patriotism. These steps were necessary to try to stop that piece of slime LBJ who never thought twice about the number of kids he was needlessly sending to their deaths hey hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today. Thousands did the same thing Trump did and avoided getting killed for no reason at all.
11
My doctor said I had Asthma...but I'm not the President and I never lied about it.
9
Not so sure it was all legal. Medical fraud, and conspiring to commit it, were probably criminal.
Also, you imply that the doctors and the guys who asked that their medical records be falsified acting ethically because what they did saved lives and prevented further loss of young lives at the neck and call of President LBJ, HOWEVER, consider the fact that these doctors may have saved your life or Trump's life, but it was at the cost of some other young man's life or limb(s). And their favors did nothing to end the war (continued by Republican Nixon, whose underlings grew up to start the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars) -- they just shifted the burden onto other young men and their families. You call that ethical or honorable?
And now, with the current occupant of the Oval Office, it seems the entire country and, with his crazy climate change cop-outs, the entire human population is going to be paying the price. Nice.
8
@JEFF S, is most certainly IS a crime to falsify federal documentation, which is what a fraudulent 1Y amounts to.
6
Can you imagine the face expression of white supremacists reading this article and finding out who helped Trump skip the draft.
24
Another exhibit #1 of Trump’s cowardice and no sense of obligation to a nation that gave him everything to succeed. Trump, in denying his recollection of beating the draft, lied again. He remembers.
13
As my sister pointed out after I forwarded the article to her, "One could say he is crooked from head to 'heals'".
21
Typically tough taking draft dodging republican. The days of GHW Bush are long gone. And they dis real veterans like John Kerry, max cleland, and Tami Duckworth because they have independent thought. Maybe Dan Crenshaw can better represent the brand.
8
I keep waiting for the proverbial straw...
11
As a young man, Donald Trump was a overly privileged, self-entitled liar and coward who actively avoided doing anything useful to serve his country. As the President, Donald Trump is an overly privileged, self-entitled liar and coward who does nothing useful to serve his country. As a young man, Donald Trump was happy to send others into harms way to meet his own needs and thought only of himself. Nothing has changed there either. Earlier experiences do provide a foundation for the making of a man’s character. Remember, the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.
31
A shame his podiatrist didn’t remove his foot from his mouth those many years ago
25
Given the president's life history and character, this investigation doesn't seem worth the bother.
Even if the president is caught lying on this one, he'll simply say it would have been stupid to go to Vietnam. With the options he apparently had, who would disagree? If it was a crime, he got away with it.
2
It all very interesting, but we have bigger fish to fry.
7
And to think that this Fake President passionately wanted to gloriously preside over thousands of troops marching down Pennsylvania Avenue, for the sole purpose of further stoking his bottomless vanity at the American taxpayers' expense! Impeach, Convict, Remove; Indict, Convict, Incarcerate. MAGA.
25
@John Grillo Hear! Hear!
5
President Bone Spurs, it's all of a piece. Donald has never done anything responsible or decently in his life. Everything about him is a cheat.
21
EXTRA! EXTRA!! EXTRA!!!
READ ALL ABOUT IT!
This just in...
Donald Trump is visiting American troops in Iraq!!
The sacrifice! The sheer courage displayed! Smugging for the cameras, surrounded by smiling enlisted men and women (who have no choice in whether they want to be part of the show)!!
Maybe now we'll stop criticizing the president for his evasion of military service during wartime, for his imaginary heel owies, for his cowardice.
And, then again, maybe not.
16
Whoops! My draft dodging has been exposed! Better fly to Iraq and shake some hands with the troops!
30
Perhaps DJT (and his surrogate, Giuliani) were correct about one thing, he could could murder someone and get away with it. What I’ll it take for the GOP Congresspersons to take the steps to remove him from office? #ITMFA!
7
It all makes sense: everything about D.J. Trump is -fake-, his medical exemption to dodge militiary conscription, his business sucesses, his marriages, his election (a loss by 3 million votes!), and his presidency. No wonder 'fake' is one of his words, he's actually telling us the truth, only in reverse.
11
What exactly is the point of being rich if you can’t use the wealth to get out of things you don’t want to do?
4
No surprise, this story amounts to too little too late. I’m much more interested in his alleged (and believable) Aderall abuse, and his time spent with billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein...and why neither of those stories have been adequately delved into by members the press and MSM.
13
I don't see the point in adding to our collective Trump overload with this no-news story.
Trump is a liar - we already knew that. Whoever hasn't figured that out by now is asleep or in total denial.
Will this sway any of his fans? - Very unlikely. They seem willing to gulp and swallow anything, and then say it tastes good.
Did many people try to avoid going to Vietnam? - Yes. Some were better connected than others.
I myself am overwhelmed by information overload about this horrible man. Can we stick to the Trump-related issues that have an effect on the functioning of our country and the integrity of our government right now?
10
Apparently it is OK for a Republican to have dodged the draft. But if a Democrat did it, watch all the veterans scream. Oh well, I guess they are hypocrites like the rest of us.
9
You know, I am anything but a Trump fan, but this pretense that military service has any political relevance is getting annoying. Consider -- in four consecutive elections between 1992 and 2004 a glorified draft dodger defeated a veteran who had served in an overseas war. In 2004, the term "swift-boating" was invented to describe the type of character assassination which has now become routine in American politics, and which managed to turn a decorated veteran's service into a liability. So spare me the implied patriotic holier-than-thou nonsense.
OK. So Trump's daddy bought his boy a draft exemption. Anybody with a brain was already aware of this. Then again, in the 1960s, so did most other American dads who had the means to do so. But the fact of the matter is that very few people -- and least of all those supposedly patriotic Americans who are so intellectually stunted and historically unaware enough to be capable of supporting this man-child of a President -- could care less!
7
I think it fits into the larger pattern that much of what Trump has touched in this life is a scam, that it adds to the larger story of learned deceit, of the inability to do right when much of his learned norm is outside the bound of legality or morality.
2
Can you image being in a battle with 45 on your team.
11
It’s not the draft dodging that’s appalling about this story. It’s the fact that Trump lies about his deception and attacks others for doing the exact same thing that he did. He is incapable of honest self examination because he’s insecure and weak-minded. He will never admit that he, like so many other young men of his generation, mostly white & affluent, conned his way out of military service and now cons pro-military voters into thinking he’s on their side.
10
The commenters excusing this Joker because the Vietnam War was a travesty -- and I'm not saying it wasn't -- are missing the point. He lied about it and continues to lie about it. He is beyond redemption at this point, but, if he came clean now (not gonna happen), only then might he deserve a pass.
4
I'm no Trump person by any means, but let's not be hypocrites. Every kid like me, mostly liberal to radical, tried any way they could to get out of the war. This is the kind of blindness of the left that the MAGA people feed on. Give up on this and deal with what the man's doing now.
12
He’s lying about it now.
6
Even if he shoots someone in the middle of times square his base and Republicans in Congress and the Senate will not desert him. He said so and this president never lies.
2
No, but apparently you misquote. He said "Fifth Avenue," and referenced only "voters," since it was still only primary season after all.
1
Say what you will about conscientious objectors, but at least they believed in something.
The same cannot be said of Donald Trump, save for his tacit narcissism.
21
Yes, many people used whatever means was available to them to avoid service in Vietnam and this put the burden disproportionately on others. This is not the point. There were plenty of good reasons to avoid the Vietnam war. That's not the point, either. The reason this who asserts he wears the mantle of the honorable military men and woman, himself avoided the draft on the basis of a lie. It's the later hypocrisy and disingenuous honoring of the military that stands out here. What is there left to defend about this man and what he's doing to our country?
11
I am about 1 year older than DJT and I am very familiar with the mechanics of the pre-lottery draft. Like many middle-class men I used student deferments to delay dealing with the draft. Most of my friends did the same, some enlisted in the reserves or national guard, some finagled a medical, 1Y or 4F, exemption. I enlisted in the Air Force, received an OTS commission and stayed safe stateside. I have no issue with anyone who was able to work the system. However, I detest the hypocrisy of the chicken hawks, like Cheney, Trump, Gramm et al.
19
Trump lied about a physical condition to get out of the war. Bush went into the National Guard, but never showed up for duty. Both had issues with taking responsibility - and continue to have. We know how Bush's Presidency turned out - not good. Lies on WMD, an unreal calamitous economic policy that Clinton luckily got us out of, but years wasted digging us out when we could have been moving ahead on many fronts. Donald Trump is now dismantling a lot of good programs in health, environment, finances, consumer protection and it's going to take years to get us back on track, years that could have been spent doing positive good in our country and the world.
The Times and other newspapers did report on the bone spurs and other Trump bad behavior, but not enough and not in enough depth. I'm having to read a variety of books to find out about Trump's extensive connections to U.S. and Russian organized crime and his willingness to serve as their money launderer, most especially in his Atlantic City casino. I don't think people understand how egregious this behavior was, how entirely unethical. Trump should have been indicted for money laundering at that time. I'm sure someone in the IRS knew at that time that he was going into his philanthropy to buy his portraits and other memorabilia. He should have been indicted for that also. He should have been indicted for the university scam, not just given a slap on the wrist. This type of criminality could destroy our country.
13
@Barbara Snider
Fascinating analysis from someone who never faced the draft. I did and pulled any string I had to evade such "service."
4
When the future is changed, unforeseen consequences follow. Hence we have djt as you know who. What a different future if ft had let djt take his chances like thousands of upstanding veterans did.
1
Interesting that this story appears, and Trump suddenly goes to Iraq to visit the troops.
It's the lies that matter. Many in the Vietnam era were principled objectors, but even conscientious objectors would serve in some capacity such as with medical groups. Others were like Cheney with his several deferments for various reasons.
Trump's avoidance was more corrupt as might be expected. For his father to pull strings with his real estate pressures is different from those who enrolled in graduate school. This meant that Trump could have a luxurious hedonistic life with his many millions from his father, while other Americans were fighting and dying in Vietnam and later suffering from PTSD, wounds and injuries, homelessness, and a host of related problems.
9
Two things are disturbing about this "revelation". One is the level of proof that was accepted to grant Trump a 4F. Back then an ocean of seemingly healthy 18 year olds were diagnosed with all sorts of orthopedic conditions or psychiatric issues that prevented them from serving. Most if not all involved a medical diagnosis from an MD, not somebody who treated ingrown toenails.
The second issue is not necessarily the podiatrist, but the Draft Board for accepting this "proof". I guess with Jamaica as it's catchment area theatre were plenty of black men to fill the quota. Trump's feet got a very cursory going over.
Trump joins Cheyney, Bush(National Guard), and Clinton in avoiding service and having somebody go in their stead.
12 days younger than Trump. Flushing Draft Board. 2 years U.S. Army.
None of this is shocking. It's disappointing about our "leaders".
6
@upstate now
Is it any wonder that they have led us to where we are today?
1
It is telling, isn't it, that much of Trump's life has been one scam after another, clouded in the protection of wealth. No wonder, most things are meaningless to him, all acts of transactions, nothing much of real heartfelt value. #Rosebud indeed.
6
If Mr. Trump's bone spurs were so debilitating, he likely would have had surgery to correct the condition. Has anyone ever asked him to show the scars on his heels? That's one obvious way to check the veracity of his draft-exemption story.
3
I went for my draft physical the same month as Trump (Sept 1968). When I told the examiner of knee injuries I'd had, he blew that off saying, "But you still go skiiing, don't you." I replied that I'd never skied in my life. He ignored my answer and promptly approved me physically qualified for military service. I served two years of active military duty and never looked back -- until now when I'm reminded of the favors people like Trump get from their privileged circumstances.
13
If it's what you say, I love it, especially later this summer.
2
The military is a contradiction of democratic values, yet a universal draft is the ultimate form of democracy and the essence of democracy’s roots. As such, a universal draft is to be feared by those who would prefer a form of authoritarian government (oligarchy, plutocracy, theocracy, etc.).
In a diverse/divided society a homogeneous military is crucial to maintaining a divisive or unpopular central authority and instilling a sense of entitlement, superiority and loyalty are the most important factors in recruitment.
I find it no surprise that the end of the draft and institution of a recruited military came at the end of the last liberal US presidency and the beginning of the neoconservative rightward political movement.
USN 1967 - 71
Vietnam 1968
25
@HapinOregon
A brilliant summary.
Yes, it sounds counter-instinctive but the best way to prevent militarization is probably universal conscription.
And to make it truly universal, for everyone in peace or war, male and female (none of us will live long enough to see a U.S. without ample opportunities to put hundreds of thousands of 19- and 20- year olds to work.) The New Deal large-scale work corps not only made a huge contribution to parks, roads, forests, etc., they vastly improved personnel readiness for WWII.
This is the best way to ensure that the glorious American tradition of civilian supervision of the military continues.
The idea of a Secretary of Defense who is not a service veteran, which started in the last administration, scares those of us who see it evolving into a situation where it's easier to leave the actual fighting decisions to generals, and allow conflicts to proceed without much input from the general citizenry.
2
@Grennan
Total agreement...
1
@HapinOregon
Two things kept occurring to me during Desert Storm. First that while it was fine to "support the troops" in conscious contrast to Vietnam vets' experiences, what about those vets themselves? Besides how the 15-million Vietnam era vets were feeling about the yellow ribbons, nobody was hurrying to attend to the issues they, their ex-spouses, current spouses, children, and an expanding circle of relationships were still living with. Or understand how vast and indirect the effects were.
The second thought, every time I saw the tiny U.S. casualty rate, was that some nine-year old future president was going to get the wrong impression of waging war. (Of course it turned out to be that president's own not-so-little boy.)
I am an old friend of Dr. Braunstein. Great doctor and human being. He shared the Fred Trump story with me in the early 1980s. He felt obligated to write the medical letter for his son Donald. Dr. Braunstein was a well respected podiatrist in Queens, served on professional boards and was on staff at Hillcrest Hospital.
396
Why did he feel obligated? Seriously.
44
@NYC101 Despite your recommendation, Dr. Braunstein was also, apparently, involved in a Federal crime. Don't get me wrong, I understand why he probably felt compelled to do what he did (just like a street vendor who couldn't stand up to the protection rackets) but his sterling reputation does not obviate what he did. It is likely that some other young man without that fake letter in his vest pocket, when to Viet Nam and, very likely, died.
79
@NYC101, was well respected, is right now.
7
This is all really no big deal. He ended up being drafted and serving in the Russian Army later in life anyway.
146
@ralphUnfortunately, not as a private. He would not have made it out of there alive.
5
Donald's whole life is a lie. Fake draft deferrement; $400 million from his dad to start his business "successes";5 bankruptcies; Russian help to win the presidency. When will America wake up and throw this con man out of office? Ray Sipe
84
He inherited his father's business, connections, and money. All of his own business ventures have failed.
5
@Ray Sipe. Republicans could but they prefer power over principles
6
It was obvious for a long time that Daddy Trump must have arranged something with a podiatrist, so no surprise. One would have to be completely obtuse to believe otherwise.
Thanks for filling in the details, Mr. Eder.
40
I have two simple questions for the New York Times. Why put such an innocuous 50 year old story on your first page? And aren't there more important and pressing issues facing the U.S. that deserve that First Page space? Thanks.
6
No, IT’S IMPORTANT to have these things REVEALED NOW rather than to wait for them to appear in some historic tome 50 or more years from now that only a very few will note. Our educational system is decidedly deficient in history, civics, economics, and government as well as a host of other topics.
39
@Frank Leibold
Sorry Frank, but when confirmation is presented that the president of the United States collaborated with his father to find a clinician who could be bought to enable Trump from fulfilling his obligation to the nation . . . and under law, it was an obligation . . . that's important news.
Although it's just confirmation of one more of Trump's illegal acts on the emerging list of his illegalities, because he it the top of the military chain of command, this Trump failure is major news.
8
If no Americans had died in Vietnam, this story would innocuous. But sadly, many Americans did die in Vietnam. And Trump lacked the moral courage to decline to serve openly, as a statement. My boyfriend's brother did fight for recognition as a Conscientous Objector, he had to go to court, he had to prove himself in court for that and he was almost sent to prison. Trump.just paid for a medical deferment. A big strong healthy coward. As long as men and women who did serve in Vietnam are still with us, this story will be relevant and important to the country.
14
All the life stories shared in this comment section by Veterans and veterans' families/ friends reaffirm my beliefs that Individual #1 signifies the nadir of our collective conscience.
This country collectively stands for principles that this president does not value and it is time we demanded it of our representatives. Would any dissembling, dishonest and downright despicable person be able to hold on to any job in our country? I hope not. That person would be booted out if their behavior was revealed. Then, why does he get to keep his job? He's surrounded by equally despicable underlings who goad and enable his pernicious stupidity.
Individual #1 obviously doesn't value the significance of the duties that have to be discharged by the Chief Executive and the Commander-in-Chief. It's all just a four-year long photo-op for him. He is devoid of empathy and intellect.
45
Bone spurs are painful. Did he have treatment for them? Yes - legit. No - uh-uh.
22
Of course this happened. It happened to tons of people - the crime isn't that any one individual made this happen but that the cumulative effect was that poor kids took on nearly the full share of that war. It was wrong then, and still is.
But we have so, so many problems to worry about and this is just old news.
5
@Lydia No it is not old news. It speaks directly to your concern that the poor are cannon fodder whilst the rich become President. Why is it relevant today? for the reason that the poor pay an unfair share of the nation's tax burden and benefits on behalf the rich (health care for example) whilst having no benefits of their own.
More importantly, this"old news" speaks to the dishonesty and moral depravity of Lying Donald Trump and Trump's family.
6
@Lydia It is important in that it show's 45's lack of character. It is also important in light of his disrespecting veterans in very vocal terms when he did not have the courage to serve. Again, proof of 45's lack of character.
1
You know what, New York Times? You could have written this article in 2016, before the election, along with that deep dive into Fred Trump’s shady tax evasion schemes and finances. Instead, you just kept on putting Donald Trump on the front page, highlighting his latest outrageous comments and rallies, selling newspapers, until he got elected. Let’s not forget the myriad articles about Hillary Clinton’s emails as the cherry on top of all of it.
So while digging up the podiatrist of Cadet Bone Spurs is decent investigative journalism, it’s too little, too late. No matter how many damning articles you come up with, I doubt the Megalomaniac-in-Chief is going to resign.
72
@Amy D.Remember that the recording of him bragging about sexually assaulting women, and suggesting that others do it, did nothing to stop him being elected. I seriously doubt that a story about draft dodging would have been any help at all in stopping the calamity of his being elected.
5
Now if a democrat did this he would be a “draft dodger”.... and would never even get close to holding office or have his love of the country questioned forever such as Clinton was questioned. Or if he did serve and saw combat and was wounded but protested the justice in fighting in Vietnam he would
be swift-boated like John Kerry. Trump was a whole other animal. Hw didn’t serve. He didn’t protest. He just lied, defrauded the military, and partied with his rich friends.
77
Whoever admires the leadership of a proven con artist is either a crook themselves or not intelligent enough to know the difference. I am still amazed that a third of the country still supports this guy. Can’t they feel the knife in their backs?
57
The only thing the NYT can find are shadows and distant, faded echos. No matter. It's an interesting bit of color, that will be footnoted by historians.
But there is so much more yet to learn about Trump.
Fortunately, between Mueller and Democratic House, we're going to learn many more truths about Trump and all his other evasions, lies and misstatements.
7
@Patrick
The echoes are not so distant with Mr. Bone Saw's shadow falling on Mr. Bone Spur.
2
Continue the reporting on Trump. You can be sure his whole life is a fraud, the biggest being elected President.
28
Surely this article does not suggest that the President of the United States is a liar?
20
Pity he doesn't suffer from thumb spurs. Or am I confusing medical pathology with wishful thinking?
28
The Queen has a podiatrist?
Perhaps the headline is too New York centric, once I
learned it was about 45 I lost interest.
6
"No paper evidence has been found to help corroborate the version of events described by the Braunstein family,"
+
"One possible explanation that has been raised over the years, the Braunstein sisters said, is that Dr. Weinstein had a connection to the draft, as some private practitioners did. In fact, multiple doctors would have been involved in the final determination."
+
"Before people were inducted into the service, they underwent a physical exam overseen by military doctors, court records from that era show. "
This reporting is all based on speculation and some acrimonious comments by Braunstein's anti-Trump daughters. In other words, this NYT "reporting" is tabloid garbage meant together malign President Trump. Did the NYT go after draft dodger Bill Clinton in this way? Hardly.
9
@MCH, Always,comparisons with the Clintons get trotted out to somehow defend Trump's unethical,dishonorable behaviors. Clinton did attempt to avoid the draft through joining ROTC, but ultimately got assigned a high number in the lottery, and was never called. As I recall, Clinton never denigrated other men's war service as Trump did to McCain or insulted the Goldstar Parents of a fallen soldier. Please, Trump is in a class by himself . As for the NYT article, the circumstantial evidence supports what most of us thought already.
9
@MCH. Sure they did, but it was a long time ago and Clinton is not president
2
Why didn’t you investigate this 2.5 years ago when it might have mattered, NYT?
14
While this may seem like a sensational rant by a newspaper bent on delegitimizing a standing president, look a little closer. Ask yourself, if you still have a feeling for the truth, whether all of this makes sense to you considering what we already know as fact about DJT. Do we really need 'corroboration'?!?! I hardly think so. Here is a man who lies so consistently, even in the face of facts, that it is beyond likely that he is lying about his bonespur episode, also.
11
Once a liar, always a liar. Trump doesn't have a moral compass and this shows that he never did.
15
This hits home. My family lived in Jamaica Estates Queens--just like the Trumps-- up until 1970. In the spring of 1966 my father got his notice from the Selective Service. He was a young husband and father of 2 small children. Me being one of them. As my mother was freaking out in the kitchen, my father retreated to the back yard to gather his thoughts, government notice in hand. His neighbor (single no kids) was in his own backyard too with with his own notice in hand. Neighbor:"Hey, you got snagged too?" Dad: "Yep, I sure did" Neighbor: "Man I'm getting out of this. I'm not getting killed" "You gonna get out of this too right?"
My mother, i must admit, felt the same way as the neighbor: "you can't go, we've got small kids etc etc.....we know people etc. etc.," And my mothers family did know people. "Oh no no no" my father told my mother. Do you know what a disgrace I'd be to do that? This is my duty and destiny and I'm sure I'll be fine."
My dad went into the Army and was deployed to Vietnam and returned after 1 yr. Years later I asked him about his neighbor. "Oh I never spoke to him again beyond returning a distant hello wave of the hand. It's like he didn't exist as far as I was concerned. That's how I felt." That's a true story.
I'm not surprised at all Trump dodged the draft. What I'll never accept is his unforgivable evil in questioning men like McCain who actually answered that call.
47
Howzabout a constitutional amendment?: Bone spurs disqualify you for serving as President of the United States. Retroactive.
22
Two anti-Trump Democrats claim their dead father told them something with no medical records or any corroborating evidence from something that happened over 60 years ago? What is this? The National Enquirer? I wrote off the Times’ credibility when it let anti-Trump gossip columnists like Maggie Haberman regularly appear as part of the CNN anti-Trump hit squad, but this piece really takes the cake.
8
If you write a fraudulent letter about a non-existent condition, it is unlikely you will have, or keep, medical records about it. What would the records say? “Saw no bone spurs, wrote letter anyway”?
If his daughters were just anti-Trump they would have said something before the election. This feels like the truth coming out.
4
Denial is so soothing.
3
If you're bothered by this story, how bothered were you when Trump himself said on the record that avoiding STDs in Manhattan night life was his "personal Vietnam"?
I cannot see how anyone could have voted for the man after that. Making a sick joke about a war where so many Americans were killed, a war whose veterans are still alive to hear his sick joke.
9
As this story is not a surprise. The story I really want to hear is about Don the Con and his forced resignation.
11
Deferments were not unusual - you didn't have to be wealthy or connected thought that helped. If you were a college student and married with a pregnant wife, that would give you a deferment. I know of a case where a man now in his 70's was drafted but got a deferment because his wife was pregnant. As for Trump's case - consistent revelations that point to lack of character are not surprising. What is surprising is that his supporters and even others don't care. I would understand that if he was doing great things but he isn't - he has only proved that truly anybody can be president and probably do better than him. All it takes is lots of money and a clueless voters that get taken in by celebrity and quick fixes.
14
The draft counselor is correct. The doctor’s letter worked for me in 1968, just like Trump. Without connections, the going rate in Miami was three grand to gain a medical deferment.
11
On a related shady matter, since it was mentioned in the story: Given Mr. Trump's reputation as a "non-reader", has anyone ever done research into who might have been paid to do his work for him at Wharton?
27
Steve Eder reports. Nails it. But is this a surprise? What is the story?
Heel spurs do not vanish. Not ever.
Once there, it’s surgery. And they may return.
Trump lies. That’s common knowledge.
Storefront foot docs are often quacks. Nothing new.
A store front foot doc that drafts a letter attesting to spurs for a deferment for his rich landlord’s son would not be forgotten. By his child.
Forgotten by Trump.
Draft dodging was common. Student deferments were common. I had one.
But Trump? His daddy’s example wrecked him. Many have.
A pathological liar emerges from the family of a real estate racist and an alcoholic older brother that dies of alcohol poisoning. This is surprising?
Scams in Queens? Wall Street? Medicine? Insurance? Politics? Banking? Religion? The best prep schools? Our orchestras? Jazz stars? Hollywood? Big business? Incest in farming? Addiction in Appalachia? Wall Street? Journalism? In our best writers?
Do we have the president we deserve?
Isn’t that the question?
3
In addition to being woefully uninformed as how the American democracy functions Trump is morally, ethically, and intellectually deficient. He is a con man ...an elitist...a draft-dodger... who bungled his way into the Oval Office by narrowly edging out a seriously flawed opponent and by bloviating the promises of his populist agenda to his hard-scrapple base who bought into his MAGA 'sloganeering', chants of "Lock Her Up!". and The Wall (Who's going to pay for it? ….).
To those who support him ... Would you want your daughter to date him? (Don't worry about the fact that he's married...Never stopped him before). Would you want your son to adopt Trump's version of morality?
7
Bone spurs don't go away. So Donald Trump, being the manly man that he is, will gladly provide access to an expert podiatrist to show proof of his bone spurs. Right after he provides his taxes.
41
It's not about refighting the Vietnam War. It's about exposing with illustrations no one can deny the privilege, lying and hypocrisy on which Donald Trump's life has been built. That's a story that needs to reach not New York Times readers or MSNBC or CNN viewers but the millions of Americans who voted for Trump who read no newspapers, in print or online, and avoid political news when it comes on their TVs. I'd like to see Tom Steyer, instead of pouring his millions into premature impeachment ads, air a series of ads based on stories like the Times' reports on Trump's lies about where his wealth came from and lies about his wartime medical condition and all the other examples of his warped personal character -- I'd like to see Tom Steyer try to reach low-information voters with those stories in concise, hard-hitting 30-second ads and see if it might have some impact on Trump's disapproval ratings among not his hardcore supporters but those who don't now disapprove of him but who could feel considerable resentment for the privilege, hypocrisy, self-enrichment and dishonesty that have made him who he is, if that were presented to them in a form that would hear. If Tom Steyer could do that, Democrats would have real reason to be grateful to him.
31
@Robert That would do the trick. Trump supporters can be reached in this way. They ultimately hate people who complain, "this is so unfair", which Trump does repeatedly. Go for the simple stuff it works and builds doubt.
5
If this is true, and I am sure that it is, I am not surprised.
6
I remember when patriotic Republicans eviscerated Bill Clinton for avoiding the draft (for a war he opposed). I'm looking forward to the Republicans eviscerating Trump...
24
Let's not forget that when he went to Paris for Armistice Day, he got a deferment from the Secret Service to go to the Aisne-Marne American cemetery. It was raining. Maybe Donny's bone spurs were flaring up that day.
17
@Carolina, no, he was afraid the rain would create a very soggy combover.
11
Get back to real reporting. I am not a Trump supporter. However, reporting sensationalist claims that have no corroboration makes they NYT no better than Trump quoting social media posts by others as fact. We will never know the true story surrounding Trump's draft situation. What we do know is that President Trump never served in the military. Voters can make there own decision on how important that is in 2020.
8
@Eric Malchodi
This IS reporting. Trying to find the truth about something.
28
@Eric Malchodi this is reporting and I am no Trump supporter either. This should have come out before the campaign. Tired of the media giving chicken hawks a pass.
25
@Eric Malchodi
I don't understand your point. If you're doubting the veracity of the reporting, that's one thing.
But this is valid reporting. And you don't have to read it just because NYT puts it on the front page.
You seem like a smart guy. I'm sure you can hold two thoughts in your head at the same time. Likewise, the Times can do important work on current issues while documenting what is known about this incident from decades ago. I doubt this took precious resources away from another beat.
No reason to under-report to appear above-the-fray or whatever your point is. This piece is not sensationalistic.
That the current CiC likely committed a morally dubious if not illegal act to get out of military service is news. Its a big deal, for those of us
I'm not going to lose sleep, as this is yet another example of Trump's lack of character. Add it to the list.
29
This revelation of Trump as a privileged draft avoider is no surprise. However, it highlights the deep differences between DJ Trump and Robert Mueller. Both went to exclusive prep schools, Ivy League colleges, and Mueller enlisted in the Marines after having to wait a year after college, to heal old sports injuries. He served with distinction, bronze star, wounded in battle leading his men in the DMZ against N Vietnam forces.
According to his own narrative, Donnie's "personal Vietnam" was in avoiding STDs during that period.
Well, in a nutshell, there you have the difference between the two people. Who would you rather depend upon if your life hung in the balance (or the future of your country)?
77
All Americans should care that their President's character is consistently proven to be so undignified. Anyone who served in Vietnam, captured or not, deserves the utmost respect. Those who support Trump, especially those who were in Vietnam, have to wonder. At least, that's what I hope to be the case, eventually.
31
Another worthwhile investigative reporting project would be how Trump manged to get through school including Penn without being able to read. Timely donations? Ringers? Plagiarism? Other?
54
The inevitable Ken Burns documentary of this scuzzy administration will not be kind to Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell, or Paul Ryan.
36
I guess my dad (Battle of Bulge) didn't have the same connections for me. Drafted, 101st Airborne, Vietnam (1967-68).
33
@Bob Mulholland
My husband's father was also in the Battle of the Bulge, very tough. He was a different person when he returned, by all accounts. He came back more sensitive & always took up for the underdog. I am not a hawk, but there is something important about having leaders who have served. Perhaps they have a greater respect for human life, less eager to provoke the bear, more understanding of things that make the military work ...procedure, order, line of command.
28
@Bob Mulholland
Thank you Bob ...
3
I have no trouble believing that DT, or any T, has used his wealth and privilege to avoid doing things he doesn't want to do. It seems to be a lifelong pattern that continues today. What really bothers me, aside from the constant lying, is the mockery and bullying. He mocks real veterans who risked or even lost their lives. His greed & incompetence puts their benefits at risk, too. His aggressive posturing also puts our children at risk today. He would have no trouble sending our children to war as long as he and his could remain safe and continue to make money. I don't begrudge anybody for not wanting to go to war. But the tough-guy stance is disgusting and puts us all at risk.
24
From some of the comments I have read, it would seem that some of the commenters are okay with the wealthy buying their way out of military service, while others paid the ultimate price for serving and protecting this country. No doubt, some of these are the same people who get starry-eyed when the flag is raised or get misty eyed seeing images of the Statue of Liberty or tear up when the image of the Wall to honor those who died in Vietnam is shown on Veterans Day or Memorial Day. To those saying "so what" I would say "so what" if it were you or your child who had to take Trump's place in the apocalyptic Viet Nam war? Would you be okay with it then? Someone had to go in Trump's place.
Trump is a man who disrespects the military and was a coward when it came to serving the country he now leads. Not a good recommendation to be Commander-in-Chief.
Trump is a fraud from the top of his orange hair to the fake bone spurs in his heels.
50
What an odd article. As if trying to get out of going to war (possibly being maimed or killed and killing innocent people) is somehow an immoral act. In fact in this regard Trump as a young man was the same as the rest back then who did what they could to escape a grotesque and unethical quagmire that was never out of sight or mind for those of us who lived in that time. It still baffles me that the military that was so vilified back then is presently seen as a force of good will and positive action. I guess that is what happens in a country after the draft is eliminated and the fighting and dying is done by someone else's sons and husbands.
10
@boji3 It's Trump lying about how he avoided the war and his unforgivable audacity in questioning the service of those who did answer their country's call when he didn't. It has nothing to do with the right or wrong of the war. I'm sorry for you that you can't see that.
23
@boji3
It's the lying to get out of going that's problematic.
15
I jumped on this commentary because, as a Viet Vet myself, I wanted to tell fellow Americans that Trump's deferment, that given his propensity for lying about EVERYTHING, they should feel comfortable in believing that Trump's heel spurs were non-existent. In reading some posts here, my thoughts on the subject have been beautifully articulated. He is, and has been all his life, a despicable human being.
57
Remarkable, isn't it, that Trump's defenders here fall back immediately and even proudly on the last defense: nothing new here; nothing surprising; nothing inconsistent. Yes, he's a liar, but he's our liar.
What does this say to men and women in uniform right now that their Commander in Chief won't visit them, won't hesitate to use them as props, disrespects their proven leaders, doesn't bother understanding the decisions he makes or their effects? What will it say to them when one of those reckless decisions compromises the dignity and purpose of the United States Military, or worse, sends brave men and women into in harm's way and brings some back broken or killed?
The squalid details fit Trump's whole self-mythologizing life. If someone feels they need to see the paperwork for this before they believe it, they might as well just say proudly that their president isn't just a liar, or their liar. He's a lie. He's their lie.
28
@Next Conservatism
They will defend his immoral actions by saying everyone does it? Really? Everyone? Not me, not my business partner, not my family, not my close friends.
8
@Next Conservatism - Trump could snack on live puppies while bombing orphanages and his supporters would praise him for it.
13
Fraud is fraud, but the Vietnam War was a travesty and waste of life. I cannot fault the elder Trump from trying to spare his son from needless violence thought I doubt it was for philosophical reasons and more for self-preservation.
One ponders how our President may have turned out if he had served in the war and came out alive.
122
@David You are missing the point. It was a selfish act. He could have joined the NY National Guard and sat at a desk in Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn or on the beach at Fort Tilden in Queens. He was eligible for the draft and should have served. Period.
47
@David
Well said. Your spot on. The war certainly would have affected him, perhaps changed him. It did to many, some commenting here.
14
@David
Its a big deal when the GOP used draft-dodger as a slur against Clinton. Now their party's mascot is a documented liar and draft dodger. It was stupid then, its stupid now.
Trump makes it a point to denigrate people over weakness and cowardice. He is a fraud.
Its just (yet another) example of how empty he is of character.
78
There seems to be no end to the gratuitous sleaze of Donald Trumps dishonest life.
13
The doctor did it as a "courtesy" to DJTrump's father, Fred Trump? Given Trumps' reputation, are you sure it wasn't the kind of "courtesy" that, if not performed, results in losing one's lease and thus possibly one's livelihood, or worse?
23
It was a crime to lie to avoid the draft. Lots of people did it and went on to live decent, contributing lives. It is a crime to enter the U.S. without proper government approval. Lots of people have done it and go on to live decent, contributing lives.
Some crimes, like being brown or black, are unforgivable in America. Others, like being a traitor, get a pass.
29
Libs need to get better with name calling if they really want to win at this game. Maybe 'Dodger Donny' or 'Bumpy Heel Trumpy'?
Any pretense that our average voter is swayed by anything more than schoolyard tactics is a red herring.
2
As a progressive liberal, I really don't think this rises to the standards of the Times journalistic integrity. In addition, it is totally unnecessary as everyone (including Trump's most fervent followers) knows he was a draft Dodger and a completely fake patriot. It just serves to open the Times up for more criticism.
5
Remember, this was back in the day when podiatry was considered quackery by almost everyone. At best, it was the place to go to get an over-thick toenail trimmed, like a glorified pedicure. Figures that little Donny the conny couldn't even get a respectable medical doctor to say he couldn't serve; not even with all of his daddy's money.
Oh, how the American people wish a reputable doctor would now recognize that yes, Donald J Trump is indeed unfit to serve.
10
Kinda puts John Kerry in perspective. Destroyed for being a volunteer and leader...
now we hear kudos for Individual 1 for avoiding the draft. He doesn’t know what foot, what Dr., whatever.
17
Watch your step, Mr. President: defeet [ oh you know what I mean] is in the air. As your boy Brett said, What Goes Around Comes Around. What ya going to do now that Papa Fred isn't here to protect you from his attempts to protect you? Isn't Rudy's plate already overflowing?
3
No doubt his retired judge sister, Maryann Barry knows the real story. If not she, one of the other two remaining siblings know the truth.
8
Trump joins a long list of political people who avoided fighting in Viet Nam: Cheney, Bill Clinton, Rush Limbaugh, Mitt Romney, George W. Bush. There are others. But some of the others were not political, were poor, or were the sole support of their families.
Then again, perhaps we should be glad that Trump never served. He could have gotten his fellow soldiers killed because of his inability to work and play well with others.
13
His lies are great in quantity only, not quality.
6
Myself and my son are naturalized citizens of this country. If I could send my son to fight a war in Iraq, as I did, why didn't Trump volunteer or draft for Vietnam ? This man, who used "bone spurs " as an excuse to avoid a draft, calls himself a " son of the soil " and then berates immigrants ! Coward .
20
Take a look at Donald Trump's signature on his Selective Service registration card back in 1964. Seems normal enough. Now compare that with the current, oversized, heavy-handed, jagged scrawl he pens now. Scary.
15
Fifty years ago, no evidence of shenanigans, no documentation of preferential treatment, no first-hand witnesses, doctor involved is deceased, hearsay statements from daughters who were not involved, and the NYTs reports this as news. Must be a slow news day.
5
That you didn't hear about it 50 years ago doesn't mean that it didn't happen. It's common knowledge that that's how some people use money to avoid exposure.
6
@Concerned Citizen So it's okay to make up all sorts of fictional accounts because it's possible that they could have occurred during the times? And you wonder why people don't trust news sources? No evidence, just a hypothesis. I think that journalistic standards at the NYT, and many other mainstream news outlets, have eroded significantly in the rush to report on the next Trumpian outrage of the day.
@Greg Beckstrom You don't know that it's fictional. You don't know that it's not. But it's probably, congruent with the rest of his behavior. I have family members that worked with people on the East Coast that Trump hired and refused to pay, the same Trump Discount that you hear about is a real thing.
I agree that it's not easy to know which news stories and sources are credible. What's more troubling is that we have to wonder why so many of our leaders aren't credible.
Someone at my firm once said to me when I was younger and naive and didn't anticipate that so many people were dishonest: "Perception is reality." I responded that reality is reality and he said, "If you're rich, reality is based on how much money and influence you have."
I don't know if the podiatrist story is true. How can we tell. But that's the goal of the self-professed art of the deal maker: confuse people, undermine trusted systems, and no one will know what to believe.
Thanks for your time and comment.
1
Many fathers with leverage pulled strings for their kid's noncombat status. Fred Trump saved his political favors for himself and relied on a private medical report subject to military review. Dig deeper NYT. Fred Trump may have paid off the draft board.
7
@Maureen Allen Weisselberg was the family accountant for years. I bet he knows something about it. Sounds like he didn't begin work until a couple of years later, but as chief financial officer he woul still know all.
5
I served in Vietnam in the summer of '67 to the summer of '68. We all new of people of draft age who didn't have to go because of their privilege status. Good for them. But when you mouth off about the ones who went there, like McCain, then your cowardly strips really show.
20
Disgusted, but not surprised.
7
I dont now. Did he?
Too bad these ladies did not manage to com forwaed with this information during the campaign.
4
How do you know that they didn't try? And that they weren't intimidated and silenced like so many others?
6
Several readers have written in with bewilderment at how 38 percent of the country could be enamored of Trump.
A percentage of these are of the same cut: wealthy narcissists who think their wealth is a sign of their moral superiority, believing that only the little people should have to follow the rules, and further, that the little people deserve their hard lives. If they were so special, they’d be rich.
The uglier side of this is that there is — and always has been — a current in American culture that seethes resentment and inferiority. From the schoolyard politics of bullying the bright and the artistic, to the adult politics of the Trumps of the world, America has a deep and festering cultural disease that hates people for their polish and achievement, and loathes them for doing well.
Trump’s life of skating the rules, being a pig, being a totally tactless, tasteless meathead with all the class of a hooters basket of wings appeals to this population’s need to not feel inferior to people. He validates there own vices and their own moral deficiencies, in that he, like them, has never had the strength or the courage to face his character flaws and actually do something about them.
These people are the ugly underside of the American culture: resentful, full-throatedly inferior and defensive, and angry at anyone who expects better of them through word or by example. Trump is everything they need to self soothe: small, stupid, arrogant, and swaggering.
24
@In The Belly Of The Beast:
All too true my friend. Thanks for your analysis of our "Fool in Chief" and his supporters. Dwight Eisenhower and all the rest of our great "Commander in Chief's" spin in their collective graves.
6
@In The Belly Of The Beast We've been tippy-toeing around these people's fragile egos for at least the past two years, but you nailed it.
8
@Don and others on this comment chain:
From a Vietnam combat Vet ('69-70--Battalion Surgeon w/ Marines) and now a retired psychiatrist-- Agree as well, and ask that you take the time and effort to read the medical/psychiatric analysis concerning our Dear Leader: ref. American Psychiatric Ass'n.: DSM-5, Arlington, VA, 2013: Section II, Cluster B Personality Disorders, pp.659-672. It's dense but illuminating. Unfortunately even with decades of research and study, persons with severe personality disorders are mostly untreatable and won't or can't engage in treatment anyway. They are in the eye of the storm and everyone around them suffers. This will not end well...
3
Is this another conspiracy story? like Obama being a Kenyan?
It is my understanding is that bone spurs do not disappear/dissolve. Trump can clear this up by releasing the x-rays of his feet. Perhaps the Selective Service should look into it!
8
Mohammad Ali avoided the draft by going to jail and defending his convictions. Now there's a real hero! Mr. Trump is just a fraud, a coward, and an embarrassment who has no business running this country.
42
What about Bill Clinton?
4
@LZ Seriously? He hasn't been in office since 2001. Time to put your thinking cap on about what is and isn't news.
6
So he got deferments too but never called McCain a loser for being captured. You are not going to win by finding other people who had deferments. Most of them did not cheat.
9
Clinton opposed the war. The only thing Trump opposed was putting himself at risk.
11
I can't stand Trump, and I love the Times, but reporting uncorroborated hearsay like this merely buttresses the claims of Trump supporters that the Times has an anti-Trump agenda and undermines the credibility of more important articles. Please take the long view.
7
This article offers lots of speculation but no proof of anything improper.
7
@JackC5
What's not true? Man fit for service two years earlier develops burn spurs that no one else recollects being an issue. Dr working out of office owned by Trumps father writes diagnosis that allows an to avoid military service.
None of that is disputed. The main story doesn't state as fact Mr Trump cheated, or bribed to get the diagnosis so if you are reading that...
6
@Cathcam And the thing is, it fits in well with his over-all character. Behavior remains consistent over time. A person who gets away with A, will try to get away with A + 1, and if he succeeds at getting away with A + 1, will try to get away with A + 1 + 1, and so forth. If no one stops him, he will continue to get away with more and more, and more and more, always secretly hoping to be stopped.
Meanwhile, he begins to disrespect the system that should have stopped him long ago. And, at some point, he will begin to believe himself to be unstoppable, invincible, god-like and above the long reach of the law.
4
Maybe a good alternative name for Conman Don is Bone-spur Brain. Perhaps the growths were not in his heels but in his head, and could explain his pathological, warped personality.
6
Coward. Why isn't he visiting troops rather than whining about being alone at the White House? He surrounded himself with generals whom he praised until they told him things he did not want to hear.
8
@Geno
Why hasn't he visited the military hospital at Walter Reed or Bethesda? He wouldn't be shot at there (maybe).
The reason...because He Doesn't Care!!!
2
Donald, cowards use fake medical deferments to avoid the draft. Perfect proof the 250 year old observation "Patriotism is the last Refuge of Scoundrels" is still timely in the Time of the Trump.
9
At some point, perhaps
20 years from now
If 20 years from now still exists
The school kids will study
A history, still muddied
By President Bone Spur, and his twitter twits
At some point, perhaps
50 years from now
If 50 years from now still exists
What will they say
About the US of A
A former country where Mother Russia West now sits
At some point, perhaps
100 years from now
If 100 years from now still exists
I wonder what will be written
About a dark time now ridden
Of President Bone Spur, and his twitter twits
5
@Howard Godnick
In the year 2525, if man is still alive
If woman can survive, they may find
...
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lie
Everything you think, do and say
Is in the pill you took today [Zager and Evans]
I think we can change the first line to in the year 2025, if man is still alive...won't need to tell the truth...trump has said only lie...
Wrapping up Christmas...Angel 2nd class Clarence, the modest and almost child-like Heavenly occupant, after all these many years, still had no wings. His higher-ups came up with a plan..a man from America, an investigator/legal prosecutor named Robert Mueller had a job to do. He has been attacked in a number of ways and,perhaps, he needed a boost. The bosses told Clarence about Mr. Mueller. About his service to the nation. About the Marine who earned the purple heart. About the respect the man has earned and his service to two American Presidents. Clarence sat there in his chair listening, and then uttered "Wow, this man Robert Mueller has had a wonderful life." The chieftans then told the angel with no wings about a nefarious man who had gained power in American, the subject of Mr. Mueller's work. Clarence then was magically ,shown scenes of that man's life It was like the life of a giant spider, weaving his web.... the avarice, the incessant publicity-seeking, the associations with undesirables, the secrecy...it went on for a full hour Wisely the bosses even mentioned that the evil man had arrogantly claimed to know more about The Bible than anyone. From there Clarence's superiors broke it to him..if he could help this Robert Mueller..to protect him..he could finally get his wings. "Hardly an easy task for task for me, but I accept the assignment." I pray Clarence gets his wings.
5
Let's give Trump a pass on this one. That's not to say he's anything but a horrible person (I can't think of one act of charity or humility that he has done and the list of his personal shortcomings grows longer by the day).
Regardless of his hypocrisy, his endless lies, his insults to McCain, his abuse of the military by using them for political purposes, I cannot fault him for avoiding service in the Vietnam war. I had the same deferment (skin allergies) and I was glad to have it. I didn't have to pull strings to get it, but boy was I glad.
Yes, I know this is emblematic of his sleaziness, but we have tons of such examples-- do I have to list them? Virtually anyone who comes in contact with his bunch is befouled.
But, ultimately, we need to stop fighting the Vietnam war and accept it as a terrible mistake. We can honor those who, for whatever reason, fought in the war as well as those who did not. The real culprits are our political leaders, looking at you Johnson, Nixon, Kissinger, et. al.
Trump is doubtless guilty of real crimes and we should focus on them.
154
@Steve. Trump’s legacy is based on lies. To belittle this lie about the draft is an insult to those of us who served honorably because of the draft.
95
@Steve
"But, ultimately, we need to stop fighting the Vietnam war...."
This story has nothing to do with the V War, and only to do with DJTrump perpetuating another self-serving lie about himself.
77
@Steve,
Agreed for most part. But as others have pointed out, there were true conscientious objectors like Ali, who did not want to go to war but were not going to be able to get away with some excuse- with or without pulled strings. The US army was happy to have black men go and die in the jungles of Vietnam.
56
I served in the US Military from 1966 to 1970. A lot of people with masters degrees and Ph.D's ended up in the army in Eritrea. Some did translations. I knew one fellow who was in the US Army at Kagnew Station in what was then called Asmara, Eritrea, Ethiopia was sent home because they said he had dislocated arms. I looked at his arms. They looked OK to me. He and I did a lot of typing together for the US Army. But he was out of the army. He stopped in Italy and bought a Lamborghini. After that he went back to Beverly Hills California where his parents lived. The contract between Ethiopia and the US Military at Kagnew ended in 1976.
1
Uh oh--this is definitely a case of collusion if ever there was one. Forget the Russian collusion between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin--the collusion between Fred Trump and and new best friend Dr Braunstein to keep young Donald out of Viet Nam by fabricating this phony bone spur story is far more sinister. Bone Spurs?? How absurd does that sound?
Why do we have this masochistic urge to keep fighting the Viet Nam War again and again? Donald Trump was not the only one who found a way to circumvent going to Viet Nam. Didn't Dick Cheney have five draft deferments? Didn't Congressman George H W Bush manage to secure a cushy job for his son George W Bush in the Texas Air National Guard? Yet we remain transfixed by Donald Trump's bone spurs. Maybe the new Congress can organize a committee to investigate whether or not Donald Trump's bone spurs are grounds for impeachment.
I'd like to thank the Times for doing such a great job investigating Donald Trump's bone spurs.
3
I'm concerned about the privacy issue. The father of these women should not have been discussing this in public. On the other hand, it was more of a "deal" than a medical diagnosis.
3
@Anon no privacy issue since trump outed himself on the bone spurs & everything can be found online for a fee.
2
@Nostradamus Said So
Well, even though he may have talked about the bone spurs himself, it makes me queasy when the professional provider of services then discusses it publicly. Regardless, the father allegedly talked about it years ago. In any event, it wasn't really a medical diagnosis-it was a sham and a fraud on the government. Sound familiar?
1
This commenter misstates the point:
"[I] became an anti-draft counselor after serving. I never suggested anyone use an illegitimate physician note, however."
Maybe this doctor (conveniently dead for more than a decade) made up Trump's "bone spurs" -- frankly, I have no idea. But most of us with "doctor letters" did actually get examined and got diagnoses that were reflected in those letters. In other words, those letters were NOT "illegitimate." Quite true, the letters often reported medical conditions that the young man never even knew he had, but most of those letters honestly reported what the doctor had found.
The REAL culprits of the Vietnam War were the political leaders who challenged the patriotism of young men who did NOT consider that war as an equivalent of "good" World War II. Whether or not World War II was "good," the Vietnam War was not, and those who did what they could to avoid fighting in the Vietnam War do not deserve criticism today. Most of us didn't have wealthy or well-connected parents to keep us out of Vietnam, but very few of us would have hesitated at all to use such help if we had it.
4
As a number of people have commented, where where all these detailed Trump investigative reports in 2016, when we really needed them?
Of course, we all know the answer to that question. All of the media's investigative resources were assigned to Hillary Clinton's email server and to the stolen Wikileaks documents (John Podesta's recipes, anyone?).
As Kathleen Hall Jameson has pointed out in her book on the 2016 election coverage, at one point in the critical October 2016 time period, the Associated Press had over 30 of its reporters exclusively assigned to read through the daily dumps of Hillary Clinton's stolen emails, looking for any juicy items amid all the routine emails.
If only five, say, of those thirty "email reporters" had been assigned instead to Trump, just think how different the campaign coverage might have been.
5
I dislike trump but I certainly cannot fault his father for getting donald deferred, even through a falsehood. I was also eligible for the draft during the Vietnam War. In those days everyone I knew who was eligible was seeking some means to avoid 'serving' in this *immoral*, futile conflict.
I received a high number in the draft lottery, but if I hadn't I'd probably be a Canadian now. There was no way that our government was going to force me to kill, or be killed in that travesty.
6
Apparently bone spurs are permanent deposits. Either Donald Trump still has them or they were removed surgically.
By submitting to an examination or providing surgical records Trump can put an end to this controversy.
8
I didn't take the deferment when our doctor offered and am grateful to the Navy for taking me on. I wasn't a good sailor. Still, I don't blame him for taking the deferment, things being as they were, even though I hate the guy. The dude claims he spent his summer working with the NYC hardhats, so one senses a capacity for duplicity, that is, if he was ever on the job site.
He learned the talk, but won't do the walk.
2
Is one person on earth surprised at this? Many young wealthy boys got fake doctor's notes during the Vietnam War lottery. Many did not support that war. That is not the issue-- the issues are that:
1. This is but another tale tail in the entire fake narrative that his his life;
2. It is the families of his supporters that fought that war. They could not fake doctors notes. And yet they think he speaks for them.
3. trump's despicable behavior about his own personal Viet Nam struggle was not getting a sexually transmitted disease
4. His frequent disrespect of towards current and former members of the military and their families, and his failure to once visit active troops or any troops during Christmas-(-poor me I'm all alone.)
8
The Vietnam War was an immoral war and should have been avoided by everyone. Kids tore up their draft cards, moved to Canada. We had no right to be there, killing Vietnamese people. It was a huge fiasco. Of course we did it again in Iraq.
What's galling are the Chicken-Hawks who avoided the draft, and those who lie about it like Trump.
6
Unconvincing in spite of the extensive investigation. I was visiting the USA during the summer of 1964,and remember well the night president Johnson announced that the Vietnam situation was turning into a full fledged war, compelling all young eligible Americas to register for the draft.
The strategic alternative for my American friends was either uncover an exempting medical condition or exile themselves to Canada and turn draftdodgers,losing their right to ever return. How can anybody doubt that mr Trump's father would not seek an exemption for his son, from a conflict that nobody understood? Priests and Pastors were unleashing against communism firing up their parishioners against evil communism ,yet failing to convince the draft generation.
Going back to the medical records which helped mr Trump avoid being drafted,the NY Times 's investigation is interesting and thorough,but one must conclude that it fails to provide an incontrovertible piece of evidence. Dr Evil escapes yet again!
2
I know from personal experience that there were doctors in the 1960's who would help out any young men who were opposed to going to Viet Nam.
I remember going to a female psychiatrist in Manhattan about 1969; and after two meetings came away with a letter that made the case that I was not mentally fit for the service. I vividly remember her waiting room over flowing with young men, many with long hair waiting to see her.
I did get a 4F a short time later.
6
Let me start out by saying that I think donald is by far the worst president in US history, a despicable, selfish and dangerous man.
However, one of the few things I don’t fault him for is his father’s efforts to keep him out of a war that countless young men avoided for understandable reasons.
donald, though, because of his cruelty towards honorable veterans such as McCain, should not be in a position to send young people to war, nor should he at any time stand with those enlisted, or even wear military apparel.
2
I'm 68 and I remember those times. It was no secret that if your family had wealth/influence you could get a favorable classification from your local draft board. I would have been stunned if Fred Trump had not helped Donald dodge the draft. I didn't think this was story that needed to be covered. Too obvious. It's like reporting that the sun will rise and set tomorrow.Then I thought about it. For people to young to know about those times, this is news and of value in better understanding Donald Trump.
5
In my opinion, the article didn’t merit the time or effort to write. It’s old news and there’s nothing in it that 99% of readers don’t already know or suspect. The Times should focus it journalistic talent on stories that highlight The POTUS’s significant incompetencies in the public and foreign policy arena and the perils that confront our country with him at the helm.
Where is Mueller’s report? That will be the best soap opera of all!
1
Surprise,surprise,and shock that a rich man's son who chose to avoid the draft found it easy to do. The draft at its best is a way of truly democratizing the army
Where I grew up the war was very unpopular and middle class kids used whatever connections and marginal medical justifications they could to avoid the draft. Or they signed up for the National Guard or went to Canada. Or served. The problem with Donald is his hypocrisy.
3
Example #2,567 of Trump being an example of America electing its worst.
May we all survive this colossal mistake.
5
In my tiny southern town every single high schooler knew exactly what was happening with the draft in 1968. We knew who got drafted, and then who would go and who would stay. Being able to predict death is a terrible thing. Terrible enough to drag us into the streets, infuriated, to demand that the war must be stopped. We didn't really understand the war but we understood that those coffins streaming across our tv screens each night didn't contain dead children of the rich, connected or important.
The Trump family was not alone its enjoyment of the dirty draft system.
5
Get real people.
I, like most young people of draft age, did whatever we could to avoid being sent to Vietnam. The left was especially reluctant to go. If we could have gotten such a letter, we would probably had no hesitation to use it since we considered the war and the government to be criminals.
That is one reason why I am here to write this letter and not in some VA hospital wasting away or dead.
The man is a liar but in this case he joined most of the rest of us.
No one was begging to be sent to possible death and a lifetime of mental and physical disorder to fight a war that few supported.
You would have done the same, believe me.
4
This story parallels what we know of the Trump family, "Godfather" Fred Trump protecting and helping by any means necessary his son Donald "Michael" Trump get through tough times in life, cheating, lying, bribing, whatever it took to bail out his son. There is plenty of weakness and vulnerability in Donald Trump's life now, but Fred is no longer there to help.
4
I was at Penn (in ROTC, btw) when Trump was there. I have no doubt the story is true.
9
It really is like something out of The Godfather.
3
" did not respond to written questions about his service record."
That's about as absurd as it gets.....THERE WAS NO SERVICE!
His father BOUGHT his phony exemption, plain and simple.
There is no mystery. He's a lying crook, that's more than clear.
7
Remember that old saying your mother told you, "two wrongs do not make a right"?
When you have to defend Trump by saying other people did the same thing its obvious the problem isn't just with Trump and his lying cowardice, but with you.
8
Money talks. Ordinary folks get to be cannon fodder. It's a wonderful world.
5
Let's not assume that, back in the '60's, Draft Boards couldn't be manipulated---even by the FBI!
I was a Graduate Student in Chemistry at Yale---and was--unexpectedly, confronted by an FBI Agent. It turns out that, sharing laboratory space with me was Victor, a Soviet chemist (actually Ukraine) who was at Yale on some sort of State-Dep't sponsored Exchange program. The agent made clear to me that he was ordered to meet with me, on a weekly basis, in my apt., for me to report on what Victor was doing (usually going to football games and collecting auto brochures!!). The reality was that Victor apparently wasn't allowed to even travel more than 25 mi from New Haven------and he had at best a 3rd-World competence in Chemistry. Before I could process the Agent's 'proposal,' he reviewed with me my Draft Status (2A). Guess what my reply was!
1
Good to have this excellent investigative work by the Times.
Not willing to trust “fake news”, maybe the military faction of his base and those that served or were involved with the draft personally, could ask Trump further about it so they can get the truth.
[And what about his phenomenal memory and genius? Can’t remember the name of the podiatrist?]
2
How about a NYT article on the natural history of bone spurs. A quick web search finds bone spurs do not resolve without surgery and, even if removed, may regrow.
So, how about asking Trump how his feet are today, did he ever get surgery, would he agree to getting some foot xrays now?
(That is, after we get his tax returns.)
But then, Trump said his Vietnam bravery was proven in his risky sex life, subjecting him to STD and, he adds, he's a germaphobe so that was especially brave of him. So let's give him credit for that; he was brave in bed.
On another angle, in the years of the Vietnam war, many draft age men managed to get draft deferments from docs. Still, isn't it so typical of the Trumps to use one of their tenants to barter a medical lie for a lower rent. And don't we still see the same sleazy, under the table manipulation manipulating Trump in the Oval Office, now having government favors and foreign policy to barter with. You've come a long way, Donny Boy from the days you only had tenement rents to barter. And we've dropped to unbelievable lows in our choice of Presidents.
And another thought on how disgusting this Donald is: among that generation fo draft dodgers, how many would have the chutzpah to say out loud, in the spotlight of a presidential candidate that they prefer solders who don't get caught.
America, you saw the character of this man in the campaign. How could you have voted for him?
9
It is hard to stomach how any Veteran could ever vote for this guy.
13
Family doc here , 28 years in the game.
Never diagnosed bone spurs in a 22 year-old. It must be a very rare bird. Also, spurs are a consequence of some cases of plantar fasciitis, not a cause of pain in and of themselves. Most spurs cause no symptoms. We see them all the time on lateral foot x-rays and ignore them as incidental findings.
That said, this article doesn’t amount to much. If it hadn’t been spurs it would have been something else.
6
Once a fraud, always a fraud.
8
Seems like someone should have spoken up about this years ago. This is a 2015 story, not a 2018-2019 story. Better late than never, I suppose.
6
Bone spur Trump was the ultimate fraudulent, draft evader. He was a fraud then, and continues to be a probable fraud to this day, with continuing investigations about his life.
His derogation of the gold star parents and Senator McCain, along with his fear to go to the front lines to laud the troops who risk their lives every day there, says it all.
26
@Quandry I like it: Bone-spur Trump. Perfect.
2
While I agree that this article is a "nothingburger," even though it underscores the lifelong duplicity of "the Donald," It has spurred reflection on my part about what became the defining issue of my generation. Notwithstanding some controversy over our role in Korea, many parents and older friends who had willingly or grudgingly fought in WWII were quick to play the patriot card and were upset that so many of their children were unwilling to march unquestioningly to the military drumbeat. I was fortunate (or it seemed so at the time) to avoid the draft, and have been a lifelong anti-war bleeding heart liberal. Yet I question to this day whether my desire to avoid service was opposition to the war as much as fear of being in harm's way. Subsequent history has shown that the military have more often than not been used as the enforcers of business interests, rather than the defenders of democracy. As a military power our role as protector of the "American" values we profess has frequently fallen short of the mark. This became obvious in the Viet Nam era, and to those of us who resisted then, it is still an open question. Still I doubt that Trump's escape from military service had anything to do with ideology, or even privilege. Many children of privilege served more or less willingly. I think it was just another case of taking the easy way out. He did it because he could. A reason to be contemptuous of him? You decide.
7
@michaeltide OK, I decided.
I'm contemptuous of Donald Trump's preening, blustering, self-anointed heroism. This is a guy who says he'd have run into a school during an active shooting. This is a guy who loads the Oval Office with flags from the service branches and battle ribbons so that any photo of him taken there has them prominently behind him. This is a guy who uses troops in uniform as wallpaper for his appearances.
Your evaluation of his motives can dither any way you like, but your "doubt" doesn't change the facts that this gutless little man is Commander in Chief, that he is dangerously ignorant of what that means, that he ignores the counsel of better people and braver soldiers, and that his recklessness and cowardice are more of a threat to the military than they are an asset.
Is my contempt for him clear yet?
4
@Next Conservatism, okay, you convinced me. Sorry if it seed like I was dithering.
1
Just rack it up to another thing in common between Donald Trump and Bill Clinton. They are as similar as they are different.
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/14/opinion/bill-clinton-s-vietnam-test.html
2
@math365 And add Dick Cheney to the mix? I don;'t remember Bill Clinton's father essentially bribing a doctor, but maybe you know something the rest of us don't.
4
@NH And the flight suit. And MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
1
“Earlier this month, he chided Senator Richard Blumenthal, Democrat of Connecticut, over misleading statements he made years ago about his own Vietnam record, calling him “Da Nang Dick” on Twitter.”
Incredible how NYT attempts to make this guy look more credible than our president re draft deferments. It is my hope that it’s common knowledge for the rest of us that Blumenthal has no Vietnam record!
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/nyregion/18blumenthal.html
3
@Susan
The point is that the president, whose draft deferment was very likely based on a false medical report, is chiding someone else for making false statements about his service.
6
I'm confident this is true, as it plays so perfectly into the Donald's life writ large. But I'd like to see some real evidence rather than this flimsy article that, frankly, probably helps the narcissist in chief. Everyone knows he's a draft dodger, but this shows that the media (sorry, fake media) is out to get him, and will stoop at nothing to smear his reputation. NYT, should have either waited for some real evidence or left this to MSNBC to report.
4
@Jim R. They have already done so. They previously published his selective service record, which clearly shows that during his college years he was considered physically fit for service, and then suddenly when college deferments ran out he was 4-F.
This current article corroborates the evidence we already have.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html
4
The headline reads;
"Did a Queens Podiatrist Help Donald Trump Avoid Vietnam?"
The author acknowledges;
"No paper evidence has been found to help corroborate the version of events described by the Braunstein family..."
As much as I personally despise Donald Trump and would have no trouble believing he had assistance in falsifying his medical condition to avoid the draft, why is this particular unsubstantiated story a headline on the New York Times? This piece borders on the kind of yellow journalism that the National Enquirer engages in, the NYTimes is usually better then this.
3
Please find the final straw that will break the back of this camel.
11
At first I thought this "investigative report" had been written for The Onion. Perhaps The Times's motto should be "All the innuendo and conjecture from anonymous sources and family lore from anti-Trumpers that satisfies those with Trump Derangement Syndrome"? Mr. Eder - nice to get a paycheck but shameful to call yourself a journalist. Imagine if you'd handed this "report" in as schoolwork to any reputable journalism school. F.
3
Interesting that Bone Spur Don, our Commander in Cheat, is heroically able to rally his feet to play round after round of golf.
22
"There is no paper evidence". "There are no medical records". "I honestly don't know if he ever examined him (Mr. Trump)." "The Times began looking into Mr. Trump's draft record anew when an anonymous tipster..."
Honest, is this what the New York Times calls responsible journalism these days? Right along with all those reliable sources you keep citing on other news stories who prefer to remain anonymous but cater to your biases? Are any of your old journalism professors alive? Time for a refresher course in journalistic ethics.
3
Finally safe to come forward, no more Roy Cohn and Michael Cohen is soon to be behind bars.
4
At least it is true that he is definitely 4F on so many counta.
8
Although I have nothing but the utmost contempt for this POTUS, his administration, and everything else about him, this article is a lot of speculation and innuendo and no hard evidence. There's no doubt in my mind he avoided serving because his father "pulled strings" but you don't prove it.
If your intent is to show he's a liar, that's already been beyond proven and documented and this article is a waste of space. I expect better from the NYT.
4
I am just a few months younger than Trump. I also wanted to avoid the draft and my student deferment did the job until I screwed up and had to take a time out from college. During those few months the draft caught me and told me to report for the physical. I got a note from my hearing specialist verifying that I had substantial hearing loss and therefore should qualify for a medical deferment. They disagreed but before I had to appeal a second student waiver came in and I was exempted on those grounds. I have no shame in wanting to avoid Viet Nam. In fact, I have acute recall regarding it all. In fact, even after all these years, I remember the name of my hearing specialist and where he worked. A guy just doesn't forget stuff like that.
If I were crazy enough to run for political office I wouldn't brag about my draft history but I certainly wouldn't lie about it either. I have no shame. Too bad the guy in the Oval Office does.
10
Thanks NYT, but this new information is at least 2 years late in coming. I doubt it would have made a difference in the election outcome though; his supporters still think he was clever and crafty to have avoided paying income taxes for years, so I am sure they will think he was clever and crafty for fraudulently evading the Vietnam draft, even though their own sons died while drafted to fight that doomed war. They may be starting to feel the economic hurt of the wonderful trade war, but they still support him because he keeps telling them that as white men they are still better than any woman or black person, so they should feel proud to be making sacrifices to make America great again. They never seem to notice that Trump never has and never will make any sacrifices for anything. There is no shortage of ignorance in America today.
12
In our democracy unfortunately the politicians decide on which wars to wage. The Vietnam war like the Iraq war was a political blunder of Johnson and Nixon. Previous 2 term presidents Clinton and George W. Bush avoided the Vietnam war like the plague that it was. Many avoided the Vietnam war by other means such as joining the yellow berets or US public health. Many who did not fight in the Vietnam war lived to do heroic service to the nation and for which we should be thankful for their service.
In the new year, the presidential election season will kick off and wanna be presidents will surface by the dozen. Most likely the presidential candidates will be those who have not served in foreign wars. Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard , democrat from Hawaii could be possibly the only one who served overseas in Iraq. Most will be like Trump never served in overseas wars.
I have gained a lot of respect for podiatrists lately for keeping me on my feet. Feet are very complex and bears the weight of a person and remote occurrences due malfunctioning of the heart and kidneys can affect the foot too. Not having fought in the Vietnam war and being opposed to the Iraq war has probably influenced Trump's thinking in supporting military buildup and promoting peace through strength while at the same time not engaging the country in any new wars and bringing to an end the wars that began during the Bush Obama years. Reduction of overseas US troops will also be great for the US and world peace.
1
This is biographical legwork of a U.S. president. That's the point. The timing and newsworthiness of this article is irrelevant. Historians and biographers drink this up like August lemonade. The lives of American presidents—every mundane detail—are valuable for posterity. Fox and QAnon can peel this apart all they want. When history confronts us 100 years from now, the record will be more complete because of reporting like this.
11
@Joshua
Yes, that's right. It's disappointing that the best evidence is unavailable because the podiatrists who could have (if they would) confirmed our suspicions have died. That makes this particular report inconclusive, but I agree that it fills in some of the blanks in the Trump story and has value for that reason.
2
Many people (I include myself) doubted the morality of the war and don't quibble with someone seeking an exemption. The hypocrisy does not lie therein.
What is galling: 1) trump's attacks on John McCain, who was, literally and not metaphorically, captured and who stayed beyond the time required by his captors in order to allow others to leave before him, despite the torture, thus providing Vietnam with NO opportunity for a propaganda victory; 2) trump wrapping himself in the symbols of service (the flags in his office, the desire to spend millions on a shiny parade rather than an increase in VA funding or an increase in payments to veterans) whilst having no personal record of service; 3) trump's use of all of his education deferments, which, when exhausted, led to his use of what was probably a fabricated medical deferment (given his pattern of lies, this is almost certain, but may not be provable); 4) his utter disrespect for the Kahn family whose son made the ultimate sacrifice for this country.
So, the anger that many people feel, and which relates to trump's fabricated medical condition, is an anger generated by trump's stolen valor. Of all of his transgressions, this willingness to jump on the bandwagon 50 years too late, whilst his many gaffes threaten to destroy our democracy, is the most galling.
33
I’m surprised this comment wasn’t a NY Times pick. Thank you for a heartfelt and wise comment.
3
@Anna R
Very kind of you. It was made with honest/sincere intentions, so I'm glad that that came through.
Cheers.
2
I don't fault anyone for avoiding service in Vietnam. But then to demean the service and sacrifice of John McCain or anyone else who did go is inexcusable.
29
The hypocrisy here is astounding!
"Clinton was a self-made man with no wealthy & powerful daddy to protect him and prop him up. Clinton did it all on his own. There’s no comparison..."
Bill Clinton dodged the draft. So did Donald Trump. So did I. If a wealthy or well-connected person had offered to help Bill Clinton or me, we'd have accepted the help in a heartbeat, just as Trump did. Bill Clinton and I didn't get such offers; Trump did. Simple as that.
Maybe. Clinton didn’t brag about the flag like he owned it or pick on those who served or who were POWs.
Trump did and does.
2
@MyThreeCents
Clinton hasn't excoriated those who served honorably and with great personal sacrifice. I am guessing you haven't either. That he avoided the draft and how he did so is the smaller part of Trump's story. The bigger is how he avoided serving and abused those who did.
Once, America would have scorned such a self-serving creep. Once I was proud to be American. Today I weep.
4
Except that you’re being honest while the president continues to lie as well as denigrate others who did not evade the draft.
2
This article has nothing new to tell us about an issue that will not push anybody to think worse or better of Trump than they already do. The daughters only know via familial hearsay that their father helped Trump get a deferment. They don't know whether it was a legitimate diagnosis. And, whether it was or wasn't, who cares?
Then we have the trotting out of the unlikeliness of bone spurs in a healthy young man. Stop!! This is the kind of journalism that Trump and his supporters simply adore. Trump takes many horrific and irrational actions. He lies constantly about things that can be instantly proven false.
By devoting space and attention to inconsequential matters that can be refuted and argued about, the Times does a disservice to its readers. Please devote your efforts to covering the goings on of the current times which would not and should not be occurring but for the madness of this President and the complicity of Congress.
Trump has proven to be an exquisite manipulator of the press and the public's opinion of the press. Please resist the temptation to look at the next shiny object he puts in front of you in an effort to have 'news' that either no one else has or which you put out there 3.5 seconds before the next guy.
3
That is a very sketchy looking place. I don't believe for a minute that any wealthy person would take their son or daughter to a slum like that for actual medical care.
3
@Daisy
If it's any comfort to you, Donald never set foot in the place. His dad arranged for the doctor to write a letter to the draft board.
Anyone who could avoid the draft did so in those days. The only ones going were those who had no connections, money, were not enrolled in school, not divinity students or, like Donald, had no documented medical reasons.
1
@Daisy
No one says he was actually present at the doctor's office.
2
@Daisy
Did you read the article? Trump's father, Fred, owned these buildings (among many other properties) and reportedly gave Dr. Braunstein breaks on his rent and other perks.
Whether these benefits were connected with a fabricated diagnosis has not been conclusively established.
2
The legend of "Donald The Artful Draft, Tax and Truth Dodger" is slowly being debunked but his legions of fans are having none of this. Duped, delusional, defiant and disheartening.
8
There goes the veteran part of the MAGA crowd in Donald's base. We have general Mattis in Afghanistan sitting in foxholes with the troops and Donald Trump cowering behind daddy's dollars.
10
Regarding the photo of a young Donald in NYMA sports gear at the top of this article, understand that The New York Military Academy was not, in fact, a prep school for a career in military service. It was a home for wayward boys, many of whom had been kicked out of private school. For many years it ran a small advertisement in the back pages of The New York Times Magazine. When Donnie boy got kicked out of a Queens-based private school (noted by The TImes in the early months of Trump's campaign), Fred Trump sent his wayward son upstate for some discipline. Interesting picture. Trump's smirk was already fixed, and note his now all-too-familiar clenched fists. Even at that young age, the nasty conniving fraud has assumed the posture we see before us every day.
19
The worst part about Fred Trump was that he inculcated Donald with racist beliefs. And Trump has done that with his sons.
Fred Trump was not the only parent that got their sons out of the draft by paying off doctors. I got a high lottery number, 79. My mother didn't pay any doctors. Instead, she called many Army Reserve units. After a month she found one in Auburn, Maine that had an opening. I moved there from N.J. After a few months there I was sent to Fort Polk, Louisiana for basic training. I still remember the day I got my orders for Fort Sam Houston to train as a medic. I was a reservist. But some of the enlisted regular army recruits who were promised by their local recruiters that they would go to Germany, got orders for Vietnam. When they heard that, two committed suicide.
9
Interesting that so many willingly gullible Trump supporters find no direct connection from the Bone Spur disability story and its rich boy slick dishonesty and Donald's ongoing lies to them and everyone else.
Pair that with Jim Mattis getting canned by the likes of Donald. The same Donald who talked to the dictator of Turkey for advice before pulling out of Syria and NOT his own military team.
This is not a Time Travel story. This is about the Commander in Chief whose character is our future as well as his past.
8
Trump is awful-But during that time everyone was running around to look for ways to avoid service. This was a very unpopular war and as it turned out even worse.
People would either stay in school,.get a med deferement, join the National Guard, get their wifes pregnant- Trump was doing whatever one else was doing. Knowing now what you know abut the war-ask yourself- would you help your son avoid that war? The problem with Trump is will not admit the honesty of what he did-which in looking back was really what many young people did.
2
Probably many more liberals than conservatives dodged the draft during the Vietnam war. I say this as a liberal and a veteran, who became an anti-draft counselor after serving. I never suggested anyone use an illegitimate physician note, however. Still it's hard for me to be too critical, and I wonder how many liberals of a certain age may self-righteously criticize Trump, knowing they did, or would have done, the same. How many stayed in school for the deferments? The real courage in that situation, it seems to me, was to declare oneself a conscientious objector, as many of my clients did.
2
@simon
It was an immoral war, and who could be blamed for trying to avoid it? Yet those who could were those in positions of privilege, and the poor, disproportionately of color, ended up serving, and if lucky enough to return in tact, carrying that burden with them.
It's the lying that is the problem. Which should go without saying for Trump. He has averaged five lies a day, with gusts up to 30 before the midterms. He's hardly the first chicken hawk--Cheney had 'other priorities,' as did most of the neocons who promoted a false narrative to invade Iraq. Easy to look tough while others are sent on missions about which the public knows only the barest of truths.
But Trump pretends he's a patriot. There's the hat. The flag lapel pin. I know people who avoided the draft, and speak honestly about their decision. Daddy Fred probably knew it would be harder to get Trump out of jail than get him a bogus deferment.
We could probably have asked Cassius Clay about that one.
2
@simon
The problems with Trump’s stance are 1. He has never been truthful about it, and 2. There is no evidence he opposed the war, just that he didn’t want to inconvenience and endanger himself by serving. He is a liar and a coward.
1
@simon
Good points, but a c.o. status declaration did not necessarily secure an exemption in the Vietnam era, without a documented history of adherence to pacifist beliefs—e.g. membership in The Society of Friends,
among a few religious affiliations.
Some of us, unable to pursue c.o. or educational
deferments (after early 1968, only undergraduate deferments and a very few post-graduate deferments were allowed), made other honorable choices, including joining Vista or the Peace Corps, providing volunteers temporary deferments and the opportunity to serve our country and world—peacefully.
In the late sixties, especially before the lottery began, most young men faced the dread of fighting in Vietnam. For some, fighting in that war wasn’t a choice they could ethically make, but they found honorable alternatives. For others, enlisting or acceding to conscription was an act of patriotism, or of solidarity with friends already in the service. For still others—and we know that certain of those men are or have recently been political leaders in our country—the calculus for escaping the draft involved little consideration of honor or duty to be of service, and more consideration of personal safety and self-interest.
In the end, the question of the choices men made about military service in Vietnam had less to do with their liberal or conservative beliefs (how fixed are the political beliefs of many 18-year olds, anyway?), than with their personal sense of ethics and honor.
1
Reading this column and many of the comments below reminded me of the Vietnam War era song by Credence Clearwater Revival "I Ain't No Fortunate Son, No."
Aptly, in the case of Donald Trump, one of the song's choruses reads as follows:
"It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no millionaire's son, no
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no"
5
@NRK
I misspelled "Creedance" in my comment. My apologies to CCR.
As someone who turned 18 in 1974, I was indeed fortunate that the draft ended that year. I had already made up my mind not to go. I don't begrudge the President dodging the draft, but admit to it and own it. We all had choices to make back then. P.S. Much respect and gratitude to those who served.
8
I don't mind that people did what they needed to avoid being forced to join what I considered to be a illegal and immoral war. I don't begrudge men who attended college or who sought medical deferments. I saw two sets of heros in the Vietnam era, those who fought because they believed in the war and those who refused the draft because they were doing what they believed was right.
4
So, does anybody really expect Trump to tell the truth about his draft deferment or anything else for that matter? And at the end of the day, 35 percent of society still loves him and the rest of us answer to him and them.
3
The significance of this story is that it does provide some background on how young Trump got a Vietnam military deferment. To some extent the NY Times corroborates candidate Trump's claim that he had bone spurs: today we have a story about a podiatrist / father who family members recall telling the story of helping out young Trump.
But without an honest telling from now President Trump, we will all be left to make conjecture about the veracity of Trump's deferment claim. At least we can conclude that Trump never wanted to go to war and found a way to avoid it entirely, (not an honorable position for a military cadet; even with bone spurs he cold have taken a desk job.)
In another case of investigative journalism, but unfortunately for Dan Rather, when he reported the story of young George Bush getting a plum state-side air national guard assignment instead of shipping off to 'Nam, Rather's career (and that of his producer) went south because they failed to verify the authenticity of his source, or so the other side claimed.
Telling ignoble stories about powerful members of the elite class has its dangers because any story out to discredit is a threat that will be attacked in turn.
At least the NY Times is taking another stab at our current President's claim of getting an honorable deferment; I've always wondered if he really had bone spurs.
3
I fault Trump for many things but not this. The war in Vietnam was a waste of American lives. None of us should have gone. To this day, I have friends who were exposed to agent orange there and now have related diseases.
I got an occupational deferment. When I graduated from college, I took a job at an aerospace company. I got one of the last occupational deferments given.
Back then, you had trouble getting the draft board's list of reasons for medical disqualification. One of the anitwar groups published this document. A friend of mine was drafted and I found out he had a condition that exempted him from the military. It was too late to reverse the process for him. Luckily, he never went to Vietnam and served stateside. But that's how it was back then.
3
Although the draft was ended long ago it wouldn’t be a bad idea to restart it, making sure that the sons and daughters of the privileged are the first to go overseas to serve. It would be interesting to see how any lawmakers vote for foreign wars or “police actions”
6
Not much news here, just another dimension of Trump’s shallow, self serving complete lack of even a scintilla of character. The scary part is that his presidency may come to symbolize the downward spiral of our republic in a dangerous time.
6
Hypocrisy, anyone?
Most of those who now deride Trump as "unpatriotic" because he dodged the draft in Vietnam are themselves the children or grandchildren of draft dodgers. My sons are. If I'd had a parent wealthy enough or well-connected enough to keep me from getting drafted back then, it would have taken me about a nanosecond to accept any offer to help. The same was true for 99%+ plus of American young men back then. Many young men enlisted long before they could be drafted (and maybe some of those young men would never have been drafted), and many other young men enlisted AFTER being drafted (enlisting greatly expanded your choices) and THEN claimed to have been "patriotic" all along. And a few young men dodged the bullet entirely: they simply were never called.
But most young American men would have jumped at the chance that Donald Trump took. Would any of them have said "I'm not going to accept this help because some less fortunate young American man will just have to go to Vietnam in my place."
Maybe, but I don't think I ever met such a guy.
1
There are at least 2 material questions this story begs, but which were either not asked and answered, or whose answers have inexplicably not been revealed, thereby raising a third question. The first question is where did the lottery put Trump's birth date? In other words, he no. 365, the last possible lottery number and least likely to be drafted, or no. 1, and most likely to be drafted? Has actual placement in the lottery results would have some bearing on his need for a phony medical deferment, so how about informing us readers of Trump's placement in the lottery and the likelihood of his being drafted at that year and subsequent years.
The second question is why didn't Dr. Braunstein's daughters report their conversations with their father about Trump's phony medical deferment? As well educated Democrats, surely they must have known of the significance of those conversations in connection with the 2016 election. So why did they wait to reveal that information until contacted by reporters in late 2018 to confirm an anonymous tip about their father's relationship with the Trumps?
Lastly, surely Dr. Braunstein's daughters must have been asked by a reporter why they did not disclose this information sooner, so the question is why was their answer to revealed in this story?
2
Consider reality back then.
World War II had been a "good war," and many young men's fathers, uncles and grandfathers had willingly responded to their country's call to serve in that war. Many Vietnam-era "draft dodgers" would have done the same thing; I sure would have.
A generation later came Vietnam, a country that most Americans hadn't even hear of in the early Sixties. Many thousands of young men were drafted to go there and fight and die. Many considered it their duty to do so, just as their fathers, uncles and grandfathers had considered it their duty to fight in "good" World War II a generation earlier.
But many young men thought the Vietnam War was different from "good" World War II a generation earlier, and they did NOT feel duty-bound to go to Vietnam to fight and die. I was one of those young men. So were Bill Clinton, Dick Cheney, and Donald Trump.
Some young men had rich or important parents who paid people or pulled strings to keep their sons out of Vietnam. Most of us didn't have parents like that, but we wished we did.
Is it really standing on "principle" to claim "patriotism" now because you didn't have a parent wealthy or well-connected enough to keep you out of Vietnam back then?
If you were really "principled" back then, you'd have enlisted long before you were drafted (and many principled young men did just that), not grumbled that your efforts to avoid the draft had failed and only them claimed to have been a patriot.
Hypocrisy runs rampant!
1
The other day, I commented that Trump has been a complete failure in everything throughout his life. Some respondents said that Trump was a successful conman, which is unfortunately true. However, this and whatever other dubious "successes" he has had are the direct result of Trump - at his core - being a complete failure at what counts most: being a good and decent person.
4
Forget the tax returns. Let's get an X-ray of his feet. Bone spurts don't disappear naturally.
3
As an ex-soldier who served when Trump was gaining his exemption from service, I well recall the deferment games. It was the rich kids who's parents were able to find some doc looking for favors or wanting to be close to money or power or just willing to be bought who would write those sort of letters. Conversely, potential draftees with real moral objections, the men who became conscientious objectors or even those who uprooted their lives and escaped to Canada, were respected for their courage.
The boys whose rich daddies would buy their sons' ways out were seen as the most gutlessly despicable. And, nothing's changed.
8
I have had heel spurs. Mine were easily ground off by doctors with hand rasps and die grinders. Both times, I was back on my feet doing fine in a couple weeks.
If the spurs were bad enough to by-pass the draft, did Donald Trump even have heel spur surgery for his own behalf?
6
I was in the draft lottery but never called up for service.
There were many during that era who did everything possible to avoid military service.
President Trump used a fake medical condition to avoid the draft and some fled to Canada.
Mohammed Ali went to prison.
Had I been called, I would have served, but I'm not going to bash President Trump (whom I detest and despise) for choosing otherwise -- just as I did not bash Ali (whom I admired and respected).
1
Yes, everyone tried to avoid the draft back in the day. I am disgusted by Mr. Trump and have been for decades. As a draft dodger he has no idea about the military, what they do, how they do it, or the strategies are necessary for a winning action and he refuses to listen to the people who do know. Such a person could, and may, drag us into WW 3 by mistakes he would not have made if he had served.
1
Trump didn't really need the bone spur diagnosis. He would have flunked the psych portion of the draft physical quite handily.
4
When I was of draft age during the Vietnam war, guys were doing all sorts of things to avoid the draft. Going to college was the easiest way out, but others ate themselves into obesity, took pills to raise their blood pressure, went to Canada, etc. It's not surprising that Trump would do something similar. It's also not surprising that he would lie about it without any shame, as he usually does when confronted.
1
I always new Elizabeth and her podiatrist were behind this. All part of the British monarchy influencing our elections. I'm not even going to read this article - the headline told me all I needed to know.
1
Trump's exemption from military service is highly spurious .
3
I had bone spurs. They were very bad. I can’t remember which foot.
I don’t really know if I had bone spurs, but the doctor said I did. I can’t remember which foot.
I can’t remember which doctor said I had bone spurs, but he liked my father. I’m sure he was right about my bone spurs. I can’t remember which foot.
Many people had bone spurs and they got exemptions. Whichever foot it was.
My father needed me to succeed him in his thriving business, so an exemption was essential. What’s wrong with that?
My father gave the doctor a good rental rate. He knew the doctor would return the favor if he needed him. What’s wrong with that? Many people are saying this.
32
It was widely known in the late 60s that those from affluent families who wanted to avoid the draft could easily procure medical deferments. When my brother, in contrast, was drafted, my mother asked a lawyer when they'd begun drafting the only sons of widowed mothers. He replied, "When the well-to-do stopped serving."
39
@Diane
So, Fred Trump was a good pal to the woman's father, any problems with his buildings, Mr. Trump would send someone out to take care of it right away. So, why does his daughter want to break confidentiality, between the doctor and a patient? What benefit would Mr. Trump have gotten out of the war, and what benefit would it have been to the nation? The Vietnam war was regrettable altogether. At least, now, as President, Mr. Trump can return our soldiers from war in Syria and Afghanistan. Why does that seem to bother people so much?
Please thank your brother for his service to the people of America, and your mother for her sacrifice of peace of mind.
2
Well, I'm not a fan of Trump by any means, but I admit honestly that I wouldn't have wanted to go to war either and if I had qualified, I would have looked for any possible way not to go. Good thing I wasn't born until 1963, so I wouldn't have been old enough anyway. And also, I was born deaf, so I would have been disqualified anyway.
My father was a doctor in the army during Vietnam. He has told me that many doctors he knew were drafted into Vietnam. My dad wanted nothing to do with Vietnam. He found out that if he volunteered, because he was a doctor, he could choose where to go. If he was drafted, he would have no choice where he was sent. So my dad volunteered, and he picked the now-closed US army base that once existed in Verona, Italy, because that's where everybody wanted to vacation back then. So two months after I was born, my family moved from Detroit to Verona, where I lived for the first nearly four years of my life. My dad did the same thing Trump did: he found a way to avoid Vietnam, though in a more legitimate way.
My dad has told me that there were other soldiers on the base in Verona who really wanted to be in Vietnam instead, and he said that he never understood their thinking. Why would anybody ever want to go to Vietnam? Wouldn't everyone much rather live a long life?
However, having said all of that, I do admire the courage of those who have fought in all of our wars, and I'm very grateful we are able to have the armed services to help keep us safe.
10
@Dov Todd - I think you also need to consider that with Trump it is the usage of privilege, the use of wealth, that got him out. Given this, Trump has the audacity to claim that John McCain was not a hero because he was captured.
6
@Dov Todd Except that those who could escape the draft have the basic decency to not belittled and mocked those who served and suffered like Trump did to the late John McCain.
6
@Dov Todd The issue is that Trump is caustically critical of those who honorably served and even those who honorably served and died for our country.
4
This isn't that hard. It's not the deed that riles most people. It's the lying about the deed, that is so very disgusting and so typical of this individual. The sun rises, the president lies.
117
@Michele, someone who says it doesn’t isn’t a liar, just stupid. A big difference.
You would think that Trump, one of history’s great liars, could have invented something better than bone spurs.
58
This entire article rests on hearsay gossip from 50 years ago by a man who died 11 years ago. And the New York Times wonders why more than half the country calls them fake news.
12
@Padraig Lewis Less than half the country think fake news is coming from the news media, including the Times. More than half the country knows Trump often lies.
You actually believe the article yourself: people who knew doctors associated with President Trump have spoken about what they recall of Trump's interaction with doctors.
Most people have already figured out that Trump never had bone spurs. This article names the people who probably helped him skip out of military service and shows that those people were connected to Trump's father.
You can take from the article what you want. There's no indication that what's been reported was fabricated, though, whether or not the people interviewed were truthful.
5
Actually much less than half in polls. Are you alleging that Trump had bone spurs so bad he couldn’t walk upright or perhaps that he did serve in the army? The story is all too plausible given Trump’s history. The fake news thing is getting so tired.
4
@Padraig Lewis
You mean like Obama's birth certificate?
4
Is this not a HIPAA violation by the podiatrst’s daughter?
11
That's a great question, and a proper healthcare provider should arrange for his or her patients' files to be transferred, unmolested, to a trusted colleague for safe keeping, or back to the patient, in the event of the practitioner's death (if not legally destroyed after a certain number of years of retirement, by the practitioner him/herself). My sense is that lawyers, too, should make such arrangements, something that a family lawyer of ours failed to do, to the detriment of our privacy and potentially impacting our welfare. The question is, do and will HIPAA and similar privacy laws grandfather in decades-old records.
1
HIPAA was not enacted when Braunstein revealed this to his daughter. In any case, his daughter would not be bound by a HIPAA violation. It is, however, unseemly for her to be talking about it now. Moreover, Trump's account has always been transparently false anyway.
2
@Dax. No, it would have been a HIPAA violation by the doctor had HIPAA existed at the time. The daughters would not be bound by HIPAA for relaying what they heard from their father.
4
I think the father did the Vietnam Vets a favor. Would you want him covering your back?
67
@Walter McCarthy: In the words of Phil Ochs’ immortal “Draft Dodger Rag”: “If the enemy ever came near me, Sarge, I’d probably start to sneeze ...”
Fake patriot.
42
What exact is the point of this article?
7
@Bogey Yogi the point of the article is to provide truth and facts. The point is to shine a light into the darkness. It is not an opinion piece. Sure Giuliani and Donald think that Truth and Facts are relative but most people do not feel that way.
4
@Bogey Yogi Unlike President Obama's birth certificate, "liddle, lyin'" Trumpy's medical certificate is a fake. Any other questions?
2
@Bogey Yogi The point is to offer proof-free suggestions of impropriety on the part of Trump, which makes NYT readers feel warm and virtuous and morally superior.
Gee, what a surprise. I'll bet we have as much chance of seeing that "very strong letter" documenting the alleged bone spurs as we are in seeing his tax returns. Donald Trump is a shameless liar. He lies like the rest of us breathe.
58
How disgusting. The Times again with its agenda. Hearsay from anti-Trumpers does not a story make.
8
@Delane McCloud
It is not disgusting to hold the President of our county to the historical context of his words and actions. This article would not be published if President Trump had provided information about his medical deferment. Deferment for a war where thousands of less privileged young Americans served and died.
3
In 1966 I was a college grad who could not get any sort of job because I was 1-A. My mother, on her minimum wage income, had never had the wisdom to buy a building and rent to a podiatrist. So in January, 1967 I was drafted, and I spent 1969 in Vietnam.
Sadly, Trump's situation was not atypical for kids from wealthy families. My unit in Vietnam had no one from a family that I would have referred to as upper middle class or higher. As we all know, that war was fought by guys from lower half of the economic strata.
I bear no animus toward those who avoided service . . . except for one group . . . those who denigrate the service of the ones who did heed the call and spend a year of their lives in Vietnam.
148
I can understand men doing everything they could to avoid being drafted, but how many of those go on to be President and are hypocritical and insensitive, saying that STDs were their own personal Vietnam? Trump maligns Gold Star families and those who do serve, shows no respect to the generals who serve in his administration and is ready to throw the remaining allied forces in Syria, including the Kurds, into the meat grinder.
99
@Leonardo Lets not forget that according to our President Trump John McCain was not a hero because he was caught (and fortunately survived).
2
@Leonardo Clinton Trump. it crosses all political lines.
Everyone should have dodged the immoral Vietnam war, just as they should have dodged the immoral Iraq war. What is galling is the hypocrisy of the military-loving Trump, ready to plunge us into more wars, waste millions on parades and send the military to fight refugees, now that he's too decrepit to fight himself.
71
@DaDa I get your point, however history will show that our military has shown a great deal of restraint and subversive resistance under Trump the Terrible.
1
While fascinating and thoroughly credible, this story is but another straw on the camel's back of lies that has always defined Donald Trump. I fear that it's not the straw to break it.
The story may be newsworthy, but it is no surprise. "He's a fake, a phony, a liar, a thug, etc." Same theme, different details, different day. Nothing will change until Trump and his Republican collaborators, both in office and on False Noise, are replaced. (Yes, we have elections, but discrediting and removing False Noise from the national discussion will be much harder.)
35
The usefulness of this data point is that it once again demonstrates Mr. Trump's lifelong pattern of fraud and deception. While he continually promotes himself as the smartest, toughest, most successful guy in the room, the facts always show otherwise.
In this case, it appears Fred Trump traded favors to keep his son out of Vietnam. Donald Trump famously joked that the risk of venereal disease from sleeping around was 'his Vietnam.' After avoiding service himself, he threw shade at John McCain by preferring people who weren't captured in war. As a candidate, he also announced that he knows more than the generals, and as President, it appears he acts on that belief. The question is whether that's just misplaced self confidence or is he serving someone else? That leads to the final point.
Donald Trump also portrays himself as a self-made billionaire, but The NY Times has shown that Fred Trump gave Donald hundreds of millions of dollars throughout his life and continually bailed out Donald's failures until Fred's last days. With that help gone, we are now left to wonder about Mr. Trump's obsequious relationship with Russian oligarchs, who it seems may have partially stepped into Fred's role as a source of funds. The critical difference is that the oligarchs are not paternal benefactors, willingly giving it all away. They expect a return on their investment.
60
Yup, add cowardice to his list of personality traits. We all really knew this, didn't we? Not like he can hide it.
44
Hey NYTimes, I’m loving the way you’ve been unearthing the truths about the Trump WH and family all year long.
But I wish you had been this diligent back in 2016... instead of falling for each and every distraction Trump created along with every other mediocre media outlet. Instead of focusing on Hillary’s emails, you should’ve done your homework on Trump. Perhaps I’m being optimistic, but I do think that would’ve made a difference in the outcome.
The job of the Fourth Estate is to observe facts and to call out liars for lying... which you didn’t do well in this case. And by creating an equivalence between the two candidates you gave legitimacy to this charlatan.
64
Though DT was born with a gold fork up his whatever, I think the the real banal evil is the action of the Doctor.
15
If only bone spurs disqualified you for political service. Where have all the podiatrists gone? Sigh...
32
This shouldn't be the least bit surprising to anyone out there including Trump's angry base of supporters. The man's actions have proven to be maniacal and vindictive. He is a very weak man who relies on lies over truth in order to satisfy his angry base. I couldn't envision him being anything but a coward in the face of enemies on the battlefield and his only strategy would be to cut and run.
18
So the podiatrist's daughters are basically saying that their father committed fraud? To get favors from his landlord? Luckily the good doctor is now deceased. (Although Fred Trump no doubt had a fixer on retainer who could have made the podiatrist's legal troubles go away if he ever got caught.)
12
Everyone was doing all they could to get out of the draft, including my brother and his friends. My brother became a teacher even though he had no desire to be one. As soon as he could leave he did. Certain occupations, like teaching, could exempt you from the draft including attending school. I should add it was white males who usually did not go to Vietnam and you didn't have to be rich. I really dislike Trump but on this I have to give him a pass.
6
@Sue Totally agree Sue. I was prepared to go to Sweden or Canada because I was NOT going to Vietnam. Plenty of reasons to dislike Trump and I despise the guy but he gets a pass on this detail. Luckily I got a high number in the lottery and could breath again. No one I knew who fought in Vietnam was improved by the experience.
1
The motto Donald J. Trump lives by: "Ask Not What You Can Do For Your Country But What Your Country And Its Weak-Minded and Inferior Citizens Can Do For You"
23
I do not see how this story passed the bar of "fit to print" by the NYT. The evidence presented is that:
1) The Trump Family rented to podiatrists (clear enough)
2) Donald Trump allegedly visited one of those podiatrists (although no medical record is shown to prove this)
3) That Donald Trump received a deferment from the draft due to bone spurs (undisputed fact)
4) That family members of a podiatrist who admit that they dislike Trump have repeated a story that their deceased father said he "helped" Trump.
Let's be clear -- did this father say that he committed medical fraud? Did he help by examining him, but not committing fraud (for example by waiving his fee as a courtesy to his landlord)?
Where is the evidence in this news item? This piece is so thin and disappointing -- just rumors from the daughters of a dead podiatrist who themselves have zero first-hand knowledge of an alleged medical exam from 50 years ago.
I admire and support this newspaper, but the fact that this was published with front-page placement is a disservice to the journalistic standard of the NYT.
10
@michaelf Thank you for splitting that invisible hair.
1
If you were able to avoid the draft and you wanted to and you did, you were part of a large group of people. But to come back and portray yourself as a fighter, disparage POW's and claim undying support for the military (while skipping a European cemetery visit because of rain) but never visiting troops in a war zone...that's just disgraceful.
29
Naturally, Fox News belittles this story saying that the daughters are anti-Trump. Well, duh...who in his right mind isn’t anti-Trump these days?
29
which father would not try to avoid his son the horror of war?
4
@silvio Serving one's country is the subject, not the "horror of war".
1
@silvio
a respectable one, that is devoted to this country.
Absolutely true, but why is mr Trump so cynical and hypocritical in his comments about the military and it’s men and women?
Now, does anyone really believe Donald Trump completed degree work at the Univ of Pennsylvania? Let's see --Fred Trump was funneling at least 1 million dollars annually to Donald from age 17, he has the vocabulary of a below average 6th grader, hates to read and can't spell. How much do you think he paid to get his papers down in the 1960's--there were no word processors and white out wasn't invented? He is lazy and everything about him is a fraud and let's see that transcript or better yet find the people he paid to get his degree. He probably stiffed them and threatened to expose them for helping him cheat to get out of paying the debt (he didn't have a Trump foundation then).
38
It doesn't smell good. It probably stinks because it is rotten to the core. It only affirms what has become obvious to all but the blinded, who are more comfortable keeping their eyes shut tight. Out orange-haired leader saved himself from hardship and possible death by deceit---by manufacturing lies about imaginary bones. Over the years he has made tons of money and avoided tons of taxes by deceit and by imagined deductions. He has profited "bigly" by deceit and imagined scams---like courses to nowhere, construction jobs that withheld wages, and friendships that lasted only as long as the were profitable. He has prospered from a life of deceit and imagined fabrications. He is at ease telling one lie after another and changing stories soon after they leave his gut. These lies ---this deceit--has helped him greatly throughout his life, probably saving his life (I think he would have been as inept in the military as he is in the presidency). Lies have brought him wealth and success in the past. Why should he stop now?
12
I wonder, if Donalds' father was alive today, would he be proud or sad.
2
@Walter McCarthy Considering that both of them have a history of mistreating people, he would be proud that his son has fooled so many and is following the family tradition.
@Walter McCarthy Proud. He taught him everything about how to lie and cheat. Very proud indeed!
2
Here are the facts: Trump avoided military service. Trump said it was because of bone sours. The presence of bone spurs in a healthy 22-yr old who played HS sports is almost unheard of. Trump was eventually declared permanently unfit for the draft and classified as 4-F. Draw your own conclusions.
28
Atef-al-Sadat, brother of Anwar Sadat died fighting for his country while Sadat was President.
Iddo Netanyahu, brother of Benjamin Netanyahu, gave his life while fighting terrorists.
Not to glorify him or his actions but Muhammad Hadi Nasrullah, son of Hassan Nasrallah died for the cause he was fighting for.
And somehow, a Brooklyn Developer was able to save his son.
Wealth is indeed powerful
12
Does it matter that the current president of the US lies?
YES.
20
When Intead this all I could think of is Phil Och’s Draft Dodger Rag.You tube it. Brilliant.
2
Vietnam was an unjust war and United States involvement in that fiasco is a stain on our history that can't be washed away. While I respect those who served there, I can't blame those who refused or avoided the call.
At the same time, I don't want those who pulled strings in order to avoid the draft serving in an elected office that might involve sending young people into battle.
23
This story is more about the legacy of the rich and/or connected not going to war, then it is about Trumps likely "improvised" draft escape. How many male Boomers, who were of draft age during the Vietnam War, are walking around now who got similar deferrals? Had parents, relatives, etc., who could, and did fix-it for those males? I would guess that of those era deferrals, over half were a bit shady...? And involved professionals willing to bend the rules for family, or like this case someone influential in their lives.
Trump is one of many of the faces for the posters of the long legacy that the rich, and/or connected rarely go to war. And then end up in a power position to put at risk the lives of the mostly less advantaged who volunteer to serve.
That's the bigger takeaway of this piece.
17
Another example of white privilege ?
5
@Boregard you ask how many, my no one from my high school of 3,000 students, and only one I can remember from my university (UF) but he was very visually handicapped, and two guys who still live in Canada.
@Boregard The others who dodged the draft aren't destroying our country and have no control over our military.
1
Prior to the draft lottery, the affluent were more likely to be granted medical deferments than the working class and the disadvantaged. Surely this wasn't because the former were in poorer health. And it couldn't have been the bias of local draft boards against the latter. Nah....
14
Did anyone seriously believe Donald Trump had "bone spurs" that precluded military service? Unfortunately the Trumps were not the only wealthy and/or connected people that were able to get questionable medical deferments. It's no different than many getting multiple student deferments. People used various mechanisms to avoid the draft and Trump may have been one of them. I'm frankly more concerned about the fact this criminal family used fraud to avoid paying taxes and provided disgusting service to tenants to get those reductions.
11
I recently watched an English movie where the main theme was "Code of Honor" while watching I thought that this is what the leaders in Washington are missing. They wouldn't understand it if it was spelled out to them. Trump most of all. But then, his upbringing is to blame. Daddy failed him.
6
Heel spurs don't go away, although with nonsurgical treatment the pain from them usually does. If Trump wants to substantiate hiss claim that he had heel spurs, all he has to do is take, and release, xrays of his feet.
9
@Msckkcsm
I wondered about that. They didn't seem to interfere with his sporting activities in high school or his golfing now.
1
Feet bone spurs have unleaded a torrent of Trump haters and Trump supporters. What pent up emotions of hatred and support. The right and the left. Both super charged by an unproven assertion. The next thing we'll all be battling over is the color of his hair?
I believe America has more urgent issues. Let's start talking about them.
@Frank Leibold
Our country is at stake, now is not the time for the tired old “both sides” argument. ONE side is dismantling democracy to enrich themselves. Trump is their leader.
2
If mr Trump were not such a liar and hypocrite it would’ve much easier to let it go. As usual mr Trump hangs himself with his own words. Sad.
1
@Frank Leibold We all know the color of his present hair is as fake as his bone spurs. No argument there.
1
That was then and this is now.
Trump may be an orange-haired buffoon, but he did what many other young men -- I included -- tried to do back then: dodge the draft. Bill Clinton did it; Dick Cheney did it; I did it.
All three of us succeeded, as did many others. Many tried and failed, and some of those claimed to have been "patriotic" all along -- they'd been just about to enlist, it seems, when they got drafted.
Many young men enlisted long before they ever got drafted, of course, and I respect them (I didn't then, but I do now). But 99%+ of young men were looking for a way out -- just like Donald Trump was; just like Bill Clinton was; just like Dick Cheney was; just like I was. If someone had come to me back then and said: "Hey, I know a doctor who can write you a letter that will keep you from being drafted," my response would have been "How much for that letter, and how soon can I get it?"
I have little doubt that Fred Trump knew which doctor letters "worked" and which didn't, and he had the money to pay for one that would "work." Good for him, and good for Donald. But 99%+ of American young men would have done exactly the same thing, in a heartbeat -- including many of the now-not-so-young men who fault Trump for doing the very same thing they'd have done themselves, and who never imagined that some day they'd be supporting a former Secretary of Defense (especially one nicknamed "Mad Dog Mattis") because he opposed pulling US troops out of some stupid foreign war.
2
@MyThreeCents Given that some 2.5 million Americans served in Vietnam and that 50,000 gave their lives, I would say that your claim that "99+%" of young men would have done the same thing as Trump is off the mark.
2
@MyThreeCents The point is that Clinton and others who didn't serve did not publically disparage those who did the way trump has. trump did make a statement when referring to John McCain that he preferred men who had not been captured. For a man who avoided the draft to say something like this should be unacceptable to everyone.
@MyThreeCents
The story is more about the lie and the use of influence. The authors make it clear that this type of action - seeking deferment - was not uncommon and they make it clear that the war was not widely seen as justified.
1
As one of the many millions of Americans who suffer from heel spurs, I can tell you how dramatically painful they are. Comments that ridicule the victims of bone spurs or somehow minimize their pain should be offensive to all good people. If you had been in the Vietnam war, you would not have wanted to rely upon a fellow soldier who suffered from such a debilitating condition. Sometimes the most heroic thing to do is to not be a hero.
3
@Real D B Cooper. You have entirely missed the point. Which is : Trump did not have bone spurs.
1
I did what I needed to do to get out of going to Vietnam. I admit that I did not consider dying in that vicious and unjustified invasion to be "serving my country." Trump should admit the same -- but of course he won't.
6
How could he? That would require courage. Bullies are famously lacking that quality.
2
you can be sure that if the draft hadn't been abolished, the US would never have gone into Iraq. Instead the military is an employer of last resort for many without money or education. What's perverse about this is that as service had become one of the few economically secure government supported places in the country shielded from "entitlement" charges, it keeps the support if the very people who are, otherwise, exploited. During Iraq, the wealthy and middle class lived as if nothing to do with them wad going on -- no extra taxes to pay for the war (the Iraqis would pay for their liberation themselves in oil, sound familiar?) -- no kids at risk (recall the Romney boys choosing to 'serve the country' by opting out of the military to work on Mitt's campaign). The exposure of the middle and upper classes was arguably what really ended American involvement in Vietnam. This story fits perfectly with everything we observe daily about Trump.
12
Some want to compare Trump to Bill Clinton, who as a Rhodes scholar attended Oxford during the Vietnam war. In addition, Clinton was a self-made man with no wealthy & powerful daddy to protect him and prop him up. Clinton did it all on his own.
There’s no comparison between those two.
44
I doubt a simple letter from a podiatrist would turn the trick of getting a deferment. In 1967, after graduating from college I too attempted to dodge the draft, and a friend recommended I see a medical doctor for a deferment. I did have "flat" feet and went to a podiatrist and got a letter outlining my condition. It, in fact, did bother me occasionally when walking long distances. I presented the podiatrist
's letter to the draft board at my pre induction physical and about 15 seconds later was reclassified 1A and draft eligible. I joined the Peace Corps and requested an occupational deferment.
I somehow think there is more to the story, including how the wealthy avoided the draft. My local draft board denied my request for deferment based upon my volunteering for 2 years of service in the Peace Corps. The board immediately denied my request and I appealed to the state board which likewise ultimately denied my request for deferment. Another Peace Corps volunteer who had likewise graduated law school, and lived five miles from where I grew up got his deferment from a different local draft board, both of which shared offices in the same building . He was from Beverly Hills and I from middle class Culver City. Need I say more?
18
@Sefo
Its good you're no scientist, because you're setting new records for outrunning your annecdotal data.
Its something that you're willing to define an entire era, a whole society based on your own fake flat feet.
I wouldn't dream of denying what you imply. But yes, I insist, you need to say more. Much more. This where bitterness and bigotry begin.
1
What is wrong with this country? Hearsay is just that. This article offers no proof. This is NYT stirring the decisive pot.
10
@Elyce Jennings - Hearsay never stopped Fox News.
10
@Elyce Jennings, devisive is all it is, even if auto spell only wants to default to decisive. It’s in cahoots with Deep State, I’m sure as well. Trying to write these days is getting like flying a 737 on autopilot, what comes out is only what’s preprogrammed to.
@Elyce Jennings
what's wrong, no one in Washington is listening to us.
Give the president a break, he was fighting his own war trying to avoid sexually transmitted infections while living the life of a New York playboy.
32
Trump is dastardly and dishonest. Keep up the reporting NYT, but frankly I’m sick of it all. I couldn’t possibly detest this guy MORE. And his supporter simply don’t care and/or are in total denial.
28
Big surprise: he was a draft-dodger. What a hypocrite.
23
I’m old enough to remember that era and a common poster at the time was, “What if they had a war and nobody came?” I fault Trump for a lot things, but getting out of Vietnam war is not one of them. Let’s all concentrate on the thousands of other misdeeds of Donald Trump.
10
@Prant
You mean like mocking, demeaning, verbally abusing veterans and their families?
The fault here is Trump's inability to recognize courage and nobility of spirit in anyone but himself, where neither exists.
Not only does he fail to recognize it, he seeks to punish those who actually live it.
Trump avoided the draft, maybe no big deal, but his own words and actions make his behavior and himself an abominable.
Her deserves everything he's getting, and much more.
Enablers, such as yourself, disrespect every serving troop and veteran by your cavalier tolerance for this President's beastly lack of consideration and grace.
There is no excuse for his words or his behavior, and you make yourself foolish when you offer one.
12
@Prant
I don't understand what your point is. My father who fought during WWII was against the Vietnam War. Does that mean that were he alive today he would give Trump a pass because his daddums bought Donald dearest a way out of that war - particularly since he now wants a military parade in his honor and maligns Mueller, John Kerry, Mattis, our NATO allies, etc. and quotes Mussolini at his rallies, declaring himself a "nationalist: while referring to immigrants (the brown ones) as an "infestation".
I doubt he would. But our family did give some kids a place to stay after they had gone AWOL during the Vietnam war.
Because there actually WAS sympathy toward some people who went there for all the right reasons who discovered they were thrown into that war for all the wrong reasons. But I doubt - very highly doubt - that Trump and his father had any sympathy for those who actually risked their lives in ANY war - because all the way back to World War I - not one member of Trump's family never fought in one. There isn't anyone in Trump's entire family history who actually shared that experience. Not Trump, not his sons, not his father, not his grandfather, and not his great grandfather.
7
@oogada Well said!
1
I'm sure many of Trump's most fervent supporters today would have been shipped off to Vietnam while he waved goodbye back in the 60's.
At least back then people on the bottom could see they were being gamed as the rich kids stayed home from the war - today, average folk are so bamboozled they believe the con men are here to save them.
47
I am anything but a Trump fan, but this is a non-story as anyone who turned 18 during the draft years knew their fate unless they were born into money and privilege. Classic example!
7
@ezed7 Except that trump is now the electoral college president and Commander In Chief of our military...and, you have to admit he is not smart and is prone to do things just because he is Commander in Chief. Even the generals he appointed to positions in his cabinet are all but gone.
1
@Norma
I totally agree. But I feel the real story here is why this obvious narcissist is compelled to disparage some of those who answered the call of honorable service to this great nation! Is it guilt?
1
No surprise trump dodged the draft with a phony letter.
Remember when trump wrote a letter about how he was "unequivocally, the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency", and then made his physician sign it. Trump touted that letter as proof of how healthy he was. It was absurd, but very consistent with trump's personality and way of doing things.
43
Thank you for the clarification about the Trump mystery bone spurs. This now explains how the Donald can easily and often place his foot in his mouth without so much as a grimace or a gag.
16
Most parents with the resources would have done anything to avoid the draft for their children, and I applaud the comments here that let Trump off the hook for being honest. However, I suspect most Trump supporters would not be as generous with their comments if Obama had avoided a draft. In that case, this would have been leading news in some you-know-which shows, with denigrating labels applied, and he would basically have been called a traitor.
19
i wake up every day thankful that i'm not a Trump. there's not one of them with virtue, decency, compassion, empathy, or any of the human values that flesh out a healthy moral character.
if he's a textbook example of what money and privilege can do to a person's core being, then i'm relieved that i wasn't born with its curse hanging over me like a sword of Damocles, always ready and willing to corrupt my very soul. there's an old song lyric that goes: "The rich get rich and the poor get babies. In the meantime, in between time, ain't we got fun?" well, no, We the People don't get fun. we get babies. if the Trump class has their way, that'll continue.
the Framers were men of privilege but valued Virtue above all else; that ship has sailed. we live now in a sad land, that values possessions over character. the obligations of citizenship are to be avoided at all costs - if one can afford it, and if the required task is too uncomfortable or unpleasant.
the Trump family, going back several generations, had little chance to succeed in America. they came here as confidence grifters, and that they remain. this article just lays out one of the many ways in which it is accomplished. they are without shame and therefore cannot suffer for their lack of social decency.
DJT will die one day, and Time will have its victory; America will suffer his consequences, and the rest of the world, as well. we are in need of a cure for our philosophical infrastructure. I CAN'T BREATHE
15
@Hollis Evon Ramsey "There's nothing finer. The rich get rich, and the poor get poorer. In the meantime, in between time, ain't we got fun."
Dick Chaney had better things to do than impede his march towards power, success and a life long desire to put others in harm's way. Six deferments and a life time of doing harm to people.
As for me I wanted to get out of the army any way I could. Whether medically, student deferment, leaving the country, go to prison, refuse to step forward. in fact I did a some combination of things and finally after refusing to step forward and pledge my loyalty to the country creating havoc in the induction center, I got off on other grounds. But in addition to not wanting to be killed or injured or hurt or kill anyone else, I devoted my life to ending the war. I certainly didn't think someone else should be used in my place. Not allowing the Chaneys and Trumps of that time to use you for their malicious purposes was in itself admirable. Those fighting against the war outside the military often enough joined forces with those opposing it from within.
Trump and Chaney and Junior Bush clearly thought they were superior to other people. That their lives were more important and worthwhile than those who were doing the fighting and dying. That contempt has extended into late adulthood. They have lived despicable lives
20
@Robert Roth
I'm longing to see some of these benighted heads on the Right explode, so here:
Many, many draft resisters, dodgers, Canada-runners, displayed more courage, more resolve, more integrity, compassion, patriotism than Trump evidences at any single moment of his life.
6
Nicely put!
During those years every male I knew did anything and everything to get out of going into that war. I can't stand Trump but on this one, he was no different than anyone I knew.
8
@Leslie Harris but the others didn't run for the presidency, who is the leader of the Armed Services.
3
@Leslie Harris Except that he is now the Commander-in-Chief and unstable and thinks he can declare war without anyone getting in his way.
1
I'm sorry that bone spurs continue to plague President Trump, to the point where he avoided visiting any military installations on Christmas Day and has yet to visit troops in a war zone.
32
I’m 64 years old. I remember back then everyone was trying to get out of going to Vietnam. Guys in my neighborhood pretended to be gay or mentally disturbed when they went before the draft board. Others faked injury or deliberately injured themselves to avoid service. As much as I despise Trump (don’t get me started), he was no different than anyone else back then doing whatever they could to receive a deferment. I can’t fault him for that. What I do fault him for (and by extension, George W Bush) is lying about the fact that he avoided service.
23
@ASD32 - Precisely. It's always the lying.
7
In general, I despise Trump, but full credit should be given to anyone, who, by any means, managed to avoid the senseless murder war, which was waged by several administrations, against a non-industrial nation that had never done a bad thing to our Country.
What building did they blow up? None.
What plane did they hi-jack? None.
What American did they kidnap? None.
What threat did make to our nation? None.
Which one of our destroyers did they actually attack? None.
18 year old boys, don't declare wars - they walk point and die.
My heart goes out to those boys and their families, who were killed, maimed, or damaged in many other ways due to their service during the Vietnam War; but to those who avoided serving, I say, "good move, history proved you right" - even to Donald J. Trump.
Any self-described Liberal, who criticizes Trump for dodging the draft, is worse than he is. And any American, who talks up the Vietnam war as a good thing, or says, "we were really wining", is Adolf Eichmann in blue jeans.
The NY Times would do far better, to report to the current generation, the perfidy of Henry Kissinger and Donald Rumsfeld during the Vietnam Era. It has to be something more than, "All the news that smears Trump".
6
@Peter Zenger
I have no problem as a Liberal pointing out the hypocrisy of a wanna-be Fascist Dictator. Calling out a war-monger does not make me pro-war. Stop kicking sand.
2
As a Naval Academy grad and military vet whose father enlisted in the Army during Vietnam, it’s important to consider, even though Vietnam was a plainly stupid war, that dodging the draft simply means another person, less conniving and less connected than yourself, takes your place.
When the military needs X people, it does not typically settle with X minus 1.
Though probably impossible to know, I’d like to know which five young men took Donald’s place, where they ended up serving, how they fared, and how their lives might have turned out had our forty-fifth President and his father had a different moral character.
19
@JFM
Good point - and one that was explicitly expressed by Bruce Springsteen in his recent performance on Netflix. In it, he admits his own successful draft-dodging and speaks humbly and with emotion about visiting disabled vets years later - and wondering who went to Vietnam in his place. Many of us who lived during that era, though we never faced the draft personally, have also lived with the losses, disruptions, and lifelong impacts of that pointless war that scarred or killed our loved ones. The least that we owe them is honesty about the period and the nature of our involvement in it.
2
Although draft dodging is a cowardly act, I’m not sure I’d want DJT backing me up
1
I don't think it matters that other men used medical excuses. It does matter in dump's case because he ran for President. There is a big difference.
16
Lying a family tradition since 1968 and before. I wonder who went in his place and if he made it back?
65
Oy. This is just the sort of story that lends credence to the generally baseless attacks on the MSM by Trumplicans. The story is full of conjecture and the subject is not one of great importance. Frankly, it's not "news," and comes across as anti-Trump for the same of being anti-Trump.
Step it up, NYTimes! We're counting on you, and in today's environment, you can't afford to make this kind of mistake.
13
@James Grosser
We know Trump got out of Viet Nam on a phony disability.
We also know that "Trumplicans" care not one whit about a decades-long look at their guy, but so what? Lots of other people care.
The back story is not "baseless".
It matters because we just had this SAME guy fire his Sec of Defense. Mattis is the guy who considers Trump an incompetent endangering troops and commitments to allies.
The long-ago stories about the guy who went bankrupt and could not get American banks to loan him $$$ and who is now the SAME guy gutting our stock market matters too.
It is ALL related. The "mistake" is Trump and we need to not make that mistake again.
7
@James Grosser There are no "mistakes" here... Just well sourced facts from the daughters of the podiatrist who admitted fudging letters to help out his landlord.
4
So, if he’s 4F, how can he be qualified to hold the office of Commander in Chief?
33
How ironic that the rich man's son, who was able to avoid military service, is now in a position to send our sons and daughers into war zones.
44
@Diane L. Ironic or predictable?
3
This is investigative journalism at its best. You've done it again NYT. You're right on the cutting edge. Bank that Pulitzer right now.
13
@Johnny dangerous What? Three journalists worker together and found the children of a deceased physician who, without having been directly involved, would cast innuendo? How many doctors were tenants in Trump buildings in the 1960s? Did the Times research that and go interview each/descendants for comments?That's not really journalism, but nice work if you can get it.
1
You folks are digging deep with the Trump hate here.
Some doctor, who is now dead, may have written a letter about Trump's physical ailment, but no one knows where his records are. We do know that his practice was sold to another doctor, and that some people remember that Trump's father was a kind landlord.
Wow!
It's not very inspiring that despite this being an absolute non-story, your intrepid reporters continue to search for some documentation on Trump's bone spurs.
Do you really think the people in the 87% of the counties that favored Trump are going to care about this nonsense?
How clueless can you be? Can't you see why most of America hates you?
After your made up story about Trump-Russia Collusion went nowhere, and has deeply corroded the public's trust in the government, you have thought that this is best use of your time?
Why don't you just stick to reporting the Little League scores?
Let's see if you can handle that with honesty. Maybe then we might trust you with these kinds of "hard-hitting" investigations.
7
@H. Torbet
"Most of America", and by "most" I mean about 40% just loves made up stories. So I am not sure why you are complaining about made up stories. They loved Trump's birtherism. They loved "pizza-gate". The love watching FOX News and other outets which have admitted to lying and providing entertainment, not actual, news.
And no those people won't care. Trump really could shoot someone and they wouldn't care. It has been shown that cultists will even follow their leader into death.
14
While I'll agree this story is lame (pun intended), the same is not true of Trump's ties to Russia,that country's efforts to get him elected, and Trump's attempts to suck up to Putin and his cronies. To ignore all the evidence presented thus far is to be blind to reality.
7
It seems clear that the NYTimes will run a story even if Trump supporters don’t care and will only be spurred to hate more. Maybe you should get used to it after two years of true reporting of Trump scandals.
1
Look, anyone who's been paying attention knows that Trump dodged the draft, and he barely hides it himself; but the details of this article leave me wondering what the NYT is up to, putting this on its front page. Maybe they are just trying to bait him, to raise a little more traffic on the NYT website when Trump tweets about it. But there isn't much here besides that. I suggest we stick to the truly newsworthy disasters that the Trump Administration is creating.
8
@IowaFarmerThis is important to the families that lost their children in the war, not to mention how the rich have been dodging military obligation since the civil war.
8
@IowaFarmer
Maybe the TIMES is trying to tell the truth, a very novel idea these days, and to inform members of the military how much of a fraud this president is. I found this story eminently newsworthy and am thankful the TIMES, at least, is capable of imparting real facts.
3
Anyone who sought deferrals five separate times to blatantly avoid military service is not qualified to be commander in chief. Trump doesn't know the first thing about military service or sacrifice. The shameful spectacle of his lame attempts at consoling grieving families who have lost loved ones defending the country is repugnant and sickeningly galling
29
You know what another son of privilege did during this time? Robert Mueller joined the marines and served heroically in Vietnam, rather than get some phony, rich kid's made up ailment to get him out of having to go to war.
And now, the President and his Republican enablers say that it is Mueller who is not trustworthy, who has some evil, hidden agenda driving his "illegal" witch hunt. Who do they think they're fooling? Only the fools that voluntarily watch Fox News and listen to right wing radio.
I can't wait for January 3rd. Let the games begin.
98
As a teenager I saw a podiatrist to have the backs of feet above my heels examined. There was a boney knot on the bone above each heel. The podiatrist recommended surgery. I preferred to switch my loafers to shoes with laces and to wear thicker socks to prevent rubbing. The knots (calcium deposits I now know) dissolved into my bloodstream after a few weeks. Surgery avoided! Loafers were very popular footwear for students during the mid-Sixties. Must have been the cause of many spurs.
10
@CBSurfer "knodes" got lots of SoCal boys out of the draft.
Other than any quid-pro-quo with his landlord, there is nothing particularly exceptional about this story: most guys who could get a reasonably plausible medical exemption from the Vietnam meat grinder, did so.
4
@herzliebster
Many guys may have gotten a medical exemption, but they did not then go on to become commander in chief, and berate and humiliate those who honorably served their nation.
14
@herzliebster - Certainly lots of people did this. But they didn't all lie about it, or mock others who were prisoners of war, or later claim they had "no power in those days" when they were, in fact, wealthy and influential.
3
@herzliebster "Most guys who could get a reasonably plausible medical exemption from the Vietnam meat grinder did so". This is pure Trump-speak, the latest example of which came only today, as we learn from The Leader that "many" Federal employees support the government shutdown, etc. In fact, some rich and/or connected "guys" avoided the draft in the way Trump did. (That, at least, is documented.) How "many"? Who knows?
1
Well, knowing this guy as we do, can't it be argued that allowing him to stay home probably saved the lives of whoever would have been in his unit?
58
My family didn't have such a connection and we wouldn't have used it anyway. Serving the country was considered an honor, a privilege, and a duty. The reality of the war, I since have found, was that it was misguided and a mistake. However, this sense of obligation is still a part of me. I was in Vietnam forty years ago.
49
Trump was dismayed to find out that Dr. Braunstein had died.
To perpetuate the family legacy of evading responsibility, Trump had already promised Don Jr. a bone spur diagnosis to keep him out of federal prison.
18
The same cockeyed American privilege that kept guys from serving in those awful days is doubtless what is going to keep the older trump from serving time. Who knew being president was a way to stay out of jail?
16
So many draftees like myself I encountered, who were thrown into combat in the Vietnam War, assuming they were were serving their country, as their fathers and uncles had done before them. We knew no history of the Vietnamese people and their war-ravaged country, nor did we have wealth nor connections to get out of the draft. And so many of us died, needlessly, senselessly in that war, lied to by our politicians and officers, and many of us who did return home were dead in the soul. The Trumps of the world are exempt from such wars and devastations of mind and body, and what little history they know is of no concern to them in the final analysis. They are war's instigators, promulgators, but never participants. The latter is for other peoples' kids, for what in their view is "the losers" of society, who are no more than cannon fodder and an afterthought to them. The surviving soldiers are the mere embodiment of war's evil, a living reminder of how a country loses its soul.
106
@MickNamVet
Thank you for doing the hard and 'dirty' work in war and war zones on behalf of our country and citizens.
Papa trump and Baby trump seize other people's kids for war zones the same way they commit fraud to seize other people's money for their holdings.
Baby trump is an illegitimate pretender, who thinks (as far as his thinking goes) the oval office is his throne and he is the dictator.
He thinks he is entitled to all assets and resources of our democratic republic, for which countless veterans, especially combatants, have fought and died--whether the war/conflict was declared by our Congress (under the balance of power) or not.
Baby trump discards all who are not obedient to his demands and rants. When he says he wants "loyalty," what he cryptically means is "obedience." If he is unable to buy obedience, he fires, disparages, or disposes of the noncompliant person (whether it be a wife, attorney, advisor, business associate, republican senator, republican congressman.....)
3
As Bruce Springsteen says - (Like me, he was drafted for Viet Nam, knew it was an insane and got himself rejected.)
" I always wonder who got sent there in my place."
I never marched, never looked down on the boys who served and I never lied about what I did though I know it dropped my fate on someone else.
Everyone who lived through that insanity knows Trump didn't have "bone spurs" but he's our President until 2020 and like everything he says and does, there's never a word of truth.
What a sad and disappointing person he is.
60
Remember the times...a war that was concocted by Johnson, McNamara, Nixon, etc. Almost 60,000 U.S. soldiers, most of whom were drafted into service, died for nothing other than the egoes of immoral politicians.
Trump's a disgraceful and awful president but you can't blame him for seeking a deferment as he's just one of millions who did the same thing.
8
We shouldn't condemn him for getting deferments. He was clearly disabled even then. Not for bone spurs, but with a deep and incurable personality disorder that would have made him a danger to fellow soldiers then and to us all now.
1
It’s not so much that he sought a deferment based on a lie. It’s more that he belittled and mocked those who served and suffered like the late John McCain. Trump is basically a coward.
2
"I know more about foot problems that disqualify a man from the draft than any podiatrist. Believe me!"
13
Anybody remembers the 2004 election, when the merits for one of Sec. John Kerry's Purple Hearts (I believe he had earned three, along with a Bronze Star!) were falsely put into question, and it severely hurt his candidacy?
I wonder what the "Swift Vets for Truth" and, specially, the conservative base who back then clutched their pearls and were so outraged by the alleged shadow of a doubt are doing these days. Although I think I have spotted a couple of them asking "who cares?" or dismissing the present issue as ancient history. Much in the way Tweety used to think he had spotted a puddy tat.
57
@Luis The Swiftboat Veterans for Truth was concocted by Jerome Corsi...who is now up to his eyeballs with Roger Stone in the Mueller investigation. Karma is a funny thing.
7
@Luis The men who concocted the Swift Boat lies are Jerome Corsi and Roger Stone. Ironic, eh?
7
@Kanaka and @Richard Pearson
I had not realized that! Karma is indeed a funny thing.
2
Oh, please!
Memories apparently are shorter than I'd expected.
During the Vietnam War, young American men fell roughly into three categories (four, actually, if you counted the few who never got a draft notice). Some young men supported the War and enlisted as soon as they could -- no need to draft them. Other young men strongly opposed the War and did everything they could to avoid being sent to Vietnam to fight and die (I was one of those). Members of the third group got drafted and THEN enlisted (which gave a draftee many more choices) and claimed to have been "patriotic" all along -- they just hadn't got around to enlisting by the time they got drafted, I guess.
No question in my mind that Donald Trump's "bone spurs" shouldn't have kept him out of Vietnam. But there's also no question in my mind that 99% of other American young men would have taken the same "bone spurs" route out to avoid Viet Nam. I wasn't a member of the first group -- those who volunteered to join the military as soon as they could -- but I respect all members of that group (I didn't then, but I do now). But I have no respect for members of the third group -- those who got drafted and only then discovered their "patriotism." And I respect members of the second group -- perhaps because I was one of them -- who tried, and often succeeded in avoiding the draft because of "medical conditions" they didn't even know they had.
7
@MyThreeCents https://www.military.com/history/29-american-presidents-from-military.html
Note that neiher Clinton nor Obama is on this list but they seem not to interest the New York Times. (smile).
Just look at the sneer on The Con Don's face in the picture shown here. A picture is worth a thousand words and his reeks of contempt and entitlement.
The Con Don says, "“I didn’t have power in those days,” Mr. Trump told the biographer Michael D’Antonio in a 2014 interview, according to transcripts shared with The Times. “I had no power. My father was a Brooklyn developer, so it wasn’t like today.”
You don't have any power today, Con Don. All you have is inherited/stolen wealth left to you by your corrupt father. All you have is a lack of human decency, insatiable greed, moral/ethical bankruptcy and a total lack of social conscience.
As they say, the "good old days" were anything but. They set the stage for the hostile financial takeover of OUR U.S. Government, governments around the world and OUR lives by you and your International Mafia brethren today.
WE THE PEOPLE will not let you destroy OUR lives again. Not now. Not ever. That's a promise.
16
I am not a fan of Mr. Trump's, but:
this story is based on gossip, not facts; and
most of the draft-age men I knew in the late '60s had themselves evaluated looking for a potentially disqualifying medical conditions -- that didn't mean they were doing anything wrong unless they falsified the results.
I was too healthy for that strategy to work for me so I served for three years on active duty -- but I don't resent those who were deferred on that basis.
This is not news.
12
I can understand the father wanted Donald to avoid draft. I can't understand when many veterans turned on their own. They never even gave the benefit of the doubt to many politicians on both sides of the aisle, choosing to believe a television commentator.
4
This story offers no surprise: A man from a wealthy family trading favors to keep him out-of-Vietnam.
Should the story end there? Yes and No.
If it's just a story of how Trump was one of thousands who "beat the draft"- then yes; end of story.
If the broader story is Donald Trump's life-long undertaking; of using wealth to take advantage, lie, cheat, bend-contort laws aided by countless enablers- up to and including his current stay in the White House... then this piece is relevant.
33
@Candlewick The story should end when all the facts are known.
4
Of course. But his lies about this aren’t surprising. It’s often more of a shock (and far scarier) when he tells the truth. We get to see how ignorant, dumb, cruel and immature he is and has always been.
But thank you for providing proof positive that he is 6’2”.
14
@Parker
You really think he's 6'2''?? His bone spurs raise him half a foot !!
1
Cadet Bone Spurs was and is too big a coward to have served during Vietnam.
13
@William Whitaker I remember reading what Mr. Blomberg said about Mr. Trump when he declared he was going to run for President of the USA : he is a con man. It appears it is so.
3
Yet another story that should have been done BEFORE the election. I read the Times avidly during the election and it was emails, emails, emails with two scoops of Benghazi and a dollop of Clinton Foundation thrown in for good sexist measure. This guy was literally down the street from you brazenly making news for decades and you only thought to review his financial records AFTER the election? You decided to look into his draft deferment only after the election?
Even if his tabloid life was beneath your standards, you had two years since his announcement to do the investigative work you’ve managed to accomplish in the last two. It’s obvious the owners and publisher are not only Republican but also sexist. Clinton was clearly the superior candidate that would have governed like a moderate Republican with a wealth of preparation and decades of government service but this paper went after her hard leaving Trump a glidepath to the presidency. I even commented at the time that a New Yorker like Trump must have some skeletons in his closet, so where are the stories about him? Crickets.
Rather than applaud you, every new story makes me respect the New York Times a little less because you clearly favored anyone, no matter how woefully and obviously ill-qualified, than the first and best prepared woman in US history.
34
After 15,000 words the only impression I have is NYT trying to connect President Trump to vice in the Asia community of Queens (photos of Dr office).Though as the continent of Asia continues to repudiate the Western Progressive emergency of climate catastrophe -- which would require trillions be immediately given to friends of NYT, the Times besmirch of Asian -- and their friends, President Trump included, is not at all surprising.
Who is this “President” Trump you mention?
Trump's entire life and existence have been based on lies. It is his modus operandi. I can't even fathom the hubris it would take to expose oneself to running for the President of the United States and risk exposure. That my friends is a sick and narcissistic personality.
13
As with so much else in his life & career, cowardly #CadetBoneSpurs ' draft exemption was achieved through fraud & deceit. Still no visits to forward areas either.
12
It’s just another NDA (non disclosure agreement) to escape responsibility. Whether his marital pledges, business agreements, real estate contracts, or college education contracts, it’s all the same. For those of us exposed in the late 1960’s to military service, there were more legitimate ways to avoid or embrace patriotism.
Bush 43 got the royal treatment like many silverspooners, went to military flight training, wasting a million dollars, and then skipped out by joining his father’s friend’s political campaign. At least Trump saved the country a few bucks. Why my fellow veterans would support either of them is curious.
27
Over 58 thousand US Troops died in the Vietnam war which our fake news president did not "qualify" for due to his Daddy's connections ,how sad !
I am always amazed how my own late brother served without question drafted into the US Army and was fighting in the worst battles of the "Korean War" my brother lost an appointment to the
to a major Classical music orchestra as a violinist and could have used connections to keep him at least out of a combat unit ,but he did not wish to do so ,after his service he no longer cared to perform as a violinist and gave up his musical career.
In a perfect honest world when fake news Trump appears in front of our US Military all members should turn their backs on him as he bought his way out of his own required selective service with a fake diagnosis of foot spurs, how very sad.
28
My 71 year old brother was a vietnam veteran and he passed away in November from ALS. He was stationed at DaNang Air Force base where Agent Orange was sprayed to keep the foliage down. The VA retrofitted his home and provided help with his care until his death.
We were from a blue collar working class community in Baltimore and it never occurred to our people to try and get out of something our country required. My brother was a strict conservative and a republican. I am sure he voted for Trump before his death. I am also sure that he would never believe Trump got out of serving by lying!
I totally believe this article and have long considered this as a possibility. I am a lifelong Democrat and retired from a US Senator's Office. I have always believed that Trump was a draft dodger and thanks for this confirmation. Finally, I am more disturbed everyday by folks like myself that grew up in blue collar neighborhoods and support this man - he is NOT my President.
Again, thanks for this article and I am becoming more hopeful everyday that we will soon be rid of him.
49
It's interesting there is such focus on the President avoiding military service during the Vietnam war.
One parent night at my child's private high school I was checking out the group graduation photos posted on the wall in one hallway. It was interesting to note the change in proportion of male to female students in photos at the beginning of the draft - suddenly many more boys in attendance.
Do you think the prospect of becoming cannon-fodder in Vietnam was a factor in making the decision to enroll in a private school?
Of course it was, and many of us would do the same for our own children.
As for the hearsay statements from the children of a podiatrist - why bother reporting it?
3
Because he lied about it.
6
@Margo Trump’s problem is that he’s a showman who’s talked so much smack over the years and he likes to point out faults in others that he’s done himself. His own words and actions end up being used against him. Plus, he lies. He bring thus kind of speculation upon himself.
6
@Margo The difference between Trump and the students you describe is this: they really WERE in school. The bonespurs were evidently FAKE. If the hearsay didn't deal directly with lies told by the person who will determine if our children get sent to wars similar to the one he evaded, you're right, why bother reporting it?
4
In the years of the pre-lottery draft, almost any doctor who either had feelings against war, or, more often, against the incredible bloodbath and carnage in Vietnam , (which George W Bush went and repeated, as if he it had never occurred), could pretty much render a person all but undraftable. Considering that the Army was taking almost anyone, to do unspeakable horrors, and was terrified it would lose it's only war to the at home "commie pinko's", it was still relatively easy to obtain a physical deferment or a psychological deferment.
This is the main reason why the US military has moved it's operations "South", and is totally uninterested in a draft of any sort. A draft military would have made Bush's "Long Wars" in Iraq-Afghanistan-where we were too cheap to use choppers and pay gas prices-impossible. The ugly ability of the armed forced to keep soldiers fighting, many years after their tours were up, could never have been forced on to draftee families whose sons were not all unquestioning Republicans.
By Vietnam's end, virtually no one but a few hardcore "lifers" still believed we were actually fighting to preserve US democracy.
Trump would never have served in 'Nam, or, had he been drafted-he'd have gone to Europe to play records with Elvis.
2
Just do us this one favor and the Godfather will be your friend. If you don't, Godfather will be disappointed.
So Fred did favors for the doctor he "persuaded" to defraud the local draft board with a fake diagnosis for Donald.
First of all, military would have done Donald a lot of good. It might have made a man out of a spoiled child.
But mostly, it would have shown him he is not a special case, not above the law.
It might even have produced a worthy national leader.
17
Reading a lot of rhetoric here about, what's the big deal everybody did this, I for one grew up in a socio-economic class where there were three choices sign in the with the Navy or Air force(considered less dangerous), get drafted or give up your family and citizenship and flee to Canada. This is about privilege plain and simple.
8
That's not the point:
"Is there a person on this planet who believes that Trump couldn't serve in the military during Vietnam because of bone spurs?"
I don't believe that, but I remember very clearly that very, very few young men wanted to be drafted and sent to fight and die in Vietnam. If a "bone spurs" claim would get you out of that, and some physician was willing to "diagnose" bone spurs and you were willing to pay the exorbitant amount the physician was demanding for a supporting letter, you paid up for that "bone spurs" letter. You knew you were being ripped off by the physician, but being ripped off by a physician beat dying in some jungle in Vietnam in a war you probably opposed (since you'd probably have enlisted already if you supported that war).
Many young men believed Vietnam was worth dying for, just as the children and grandchildren of those young men now think the US should stay in Syria and Afghanistan. But that was not the norm, and many "grandfathers" would be appalled to learn their children and grandchildren (and even other "grandfathers" themselves) now support a former Secretary of Defense who resigned in protest because his boss, the US President, had decided to pull out.
And those "grandfathers" wouldn't put much weight on absurd arguments that, while the end result may be laudable, the "precipitous" way in which we got there is objectionable. We've been in Afghanistan for 17 years! What's "precipitous" about cutting our presence in half?
4
@MyThreeCents What does your post have to do with Donald Trump being a coward and avoiding doing his duty to serve his country as so many young men did back then without lying and using his privileged status to avoid serving his country. Trump was, is and always will be a coward as all bullies are at their core.
5
My dad was similar to this commenter's:
"My dad ... mentioned of me going to Canada if stuff really got heated ... there is something about fathers wanting their sons to avoid war."
My dad was not a big supporter of US foreign wars, but he did believe an American should serve his country if called. But he also loved his sons, and didn't want us to get killed in a senseless war halfway around the world. Like this commenter, I was shocked when my dad offered to help if I chose to go to Canada to escape the draft. But he did. As it turned out, I found another way to dodge the draft, but I was deeply touched by my dad's offer to help if Canada turned out to be my choice.
6
Look at that office. Why this office? It looks exactly like the kind of place you would go to get the diagnosis you need. Fred Trump wasn't poor. Is this the kind of place that the Trump family frequented regularly? Where and what kind of offices did Trump's regular doctors have?
Knowing what we know of Donald Trump and his family "the diagnosis was granted as a courtesy to the elder Mr. Trump." has the ring of truth. And the doctor continued to get favors on the rent. It sounds exaclty like what you would expect of the Trumps making deals and getting favors. It doesn't paint Dr. Braunstein in an ethical light either. If true he was willing to participate in a greasing each other's palms deal.
So, what we have is one incident for which any accountability is long past. But when added to a lifetime of deception and fraud it not only fits in context but adds to the context of which we understand Trump and his family.
10
>>For 50 years, the details of how the exemption came about, and who made the diagnosis, have remained a mystery, with Mr. Trump himself saying during the presidential campaign that he could not recall who had signed off on the medical documentation.<<
Pretty amazing for someone who claims to possess "one of the great memories of all time." Especially when it comes to an event that radically changed the trajectory of your life! Heck, I can still remember the name of my kindergarten teacher, and she didn't do anything to keep me out of Vietnam!
12
Let me start by indicating that I find Mr. Trump the most negligent, selfish, and incompetent of people to hold high office in the United States.
However, I can empathize with Trump's avoiding military service. I barely remember the moon shot, but I can recall the conversation of adults worried about the draft and sending their sons to Vietnam and hoping they wouldn't be faced with that. I'm a father to two young boys who's heritage isn't preferred by Trump supporters, and the today's world gives me a glimpse into the mindset of my parents' generation.
That said, there's a difference between someone who used legitimate means to defer their being drafted and one who goes to lengths to concoct a story. Greater still, the reaction some 50 years later isn't tempered with thoughtful reflection, context, or any sort of action to personally acknowledge the sacrifice our volunteer service members show on a daily basis. Trump instead doubles down, and cheapens the sacrifices of others with his "personal Vietnam" comments instead of any attempt at asking for forgiveness.
This story only lends some additional credibility to the truth anybody with a few objective synapses could see plainly.
4
When this new revelation is stacked on top of Mt. Everest of lies that Trump has constructed during his life, it fits perfectly but doesn't really change the narrative or shed new light.
Ironically, if he wasn't Donald Trump, the revulsion we feel when hearing about something like this would be mitigated somewhat if it had been just a regular "civilian" who had received this "help".
Let's keep in mind how deeply unpopular this war was, and many people who had the wherewithal to avoid the draft did so without shame.
But since it is Trump we're talking about, it's hard if not impossible to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case.
It would be pretty tough to imagine that he had deeply held moral conviction against the Vietnam war, given that by now it's clear that he isn't capable of any at all.
2
Just another example of the white, rich privilege that so many trump voters voted against by voting for him.
Will they now see the light?
Unlikely, cult followers seldom do.
25
I once had a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder tell me that the only people who do service (in this case, he was talking about my involvement in running a carnival event for underprivileged children) are those who aren't "smart" enough to get out of it. Sound familiar???
20
OMG. Poor Dr. Braunstein. He is dead and unable to defend himself. Yet, his own daughters are telling the world that he was a self-serving, unethical man. A man who would make false statements to get preferential treatment from his landlord. Is there no shame?
5
@HollyS Yes, shame still exists, but is something the good doctor and his patient apparently lacked.
My story.
I was in ROTC and ready to graduate (1971) and become a 2Lt in the AF. I flunked my physical. I could have been 4F, I believe my number was in the 30’s. Instead I asked my father, a civilian in the Pentagon, if he could get my file reviewed. I.e use a connection to get the DQ overturned, he did and I served a wonderful 21 year career in the AF.
I hated to ask him for anything but I’m really glad I swallowed my pride and asked. Those years, the good, the, even the ugly made me who I am.
The first lesson I learned, one POTUS hasn’t, is that loyalty runs both ways. Every success the people who worked for was theirs, every failure was mine - there were a lot more of the former. His presidency would be so much better if he had learned that lesson
10
"Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!" But apparently the Three Stooges were occupied elsewhere.
6
Trump a fraud? I'm so surprised.
8
Over 65,000 American boys were killed and countless hundreds of thousands were damaged in mind and body in an immoral and ultimately fruitless war. Many, many boys used whatever means was at hand to avoid going into that meat grinder. Dick Cheney, along with 16 million other college kids, got deferments and some stayed in school as long as possible to maintain them. Trump apparently wanted to start work; so he used a compliant doctor. Personally, I don't blame him.
5
@LSR: Okay you don't blame him. But now he is Commander in Chief of the military. Do you see that as a problem?
11
@Steve
I see tons of very serious problems with Trump commanding anything. But I don't think his having avoided the draft has anything to do with them.
2
Is there anyone, anywhere, who is remotely surprised by this? Anyone?
6
Bill Clinton pulled every string possible and used whatever means necessary to avoid military service in Viet Nam, including publicly stating that he "abhorred the military". But of course he was a Democrat, and was given a free pass by the so called impartial investigative journalists of the fair and balanced New York Times. Slanted news coverage based on party affiliation? You decide.
4
Doesn’t “Blame the Clintons” ever get old with you people? He was President 20 years ago. And yes, the press did make a story of his avoidance of service. People voted him into office anyway.
16
Similarly, I voted for Trump, knowing that he had never served in the military.
Get over yourselves, you Clinton lovers and Trump haters.
The comment just points to the hypocrisy of the NYT. That’s all.
1
@paul
Please/ Get Real. This is not a GOP/Democratic issue.
Bill Clinton stating his views and taking the heat for it
in the 70s aint the same as Donald getting Dad to find a doc to make up a phony disability diagnosis to keep his rear out of the Viet Nam and set him up with millions to playboy his way through the 70s.
NOT the same. Sorry.
2
I'm shocked! I say shocked, to hear this news... to think that Trump's father conspired to prevent young Donnie from serving his country.
6
This man claimed to be the big supporter of the military. Now we found out he cheated out of service in Vietnam. He claimed to be the "jobs jobs jobs" president, now hundreds of thousands are out of work in the government to massage his ego. Liar, cheat, fraud. Nothing works with his base except to believe The Great Lie that encompasses all of it. The rest of us are victims of these enablers.
6
Not an honest bone in his body.
17
@KB
Even his "bone spurs" left him.
3
Supporting President Trump uncritically reminds me of those crowds who adore professional wrestling. Something about the in-your-face, gleeful fakery of puffed-up strutting sham manhood, faking combat violently enough to thrill but with no personal danger....appeals to many people.
I wish it did not.
7
The Republican Party swift boated a real Vietnam veteran, John Kerry. Now they idolize a real draft dodger. In so many ways, the Republican Party has become the Party of Hypocrites and Liars.
The rot extends far beyond Trump.
47
@Philly
Trump is against war...as it relates to him. If he were against war, as you say, then he would not be providing the Saudis with planes and bombs to murder and starve the people of Yemen.
5
If you could detail an example of truthfulness and integrity in Trump's past...now THAT would be news.
17
I first read the headline as "Did the Queen's Podiatrist Help Donald Trump Avoid Vietnam"
Somehow, that's no less absurd.
7
Oh my - I am so shocked.
I dislike like trump as much as anyone but 2nd hand information without collaboration is not news, it’s conspiracy theory gossip. We expect this from FOX, not NYT. Get some better evidence.
7
@Scott Spencer
Scott, you will NEVER hear Fox News get even close to this story.
They have "45" eating right out of their hands...
And now we can also tune into Trump's newest advisors, Limbaugh and Coulter, on how Trump
must now handle the standoff government shutdown they badgered him into.
2
@Scott Spencer
It's the doctor's children repeating what their father told them. That's a little better than second hand information.
Truth is, everyone accepts Trump didn't have bone spurs. Even Trump could recall which foot it was (or both).
Is it a significant story ? That's another matter. But the article points out that this type of thing was not uncommon. It isn't being presented as a scandal.
GW Bush (free flying lessons in the Texas Air national Guard), Dick (FIVE deferments) Cheney, now Donald (Five deferments) Trump, all Republicans, all pro military, all draft dodgers.
29
No surprise here. Nothing cheap, tawdry, loathsome is beyond Donald..
6
We were happy if a guy from our class had a dad who could pull strings and keep him out of that crazy Asian war. If you pulled number 50 or 80, you were a dead man walking down the hall of the high school. Some parents paid for their sons to fly to Canada and see if that could be an option.
4
For what it's worth:
A 2017 piece about this issue.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/23/opinions/trump-vietnam-deferment-opinion-dantonio/index.html
3
Nice job on reporting, too bad you didn’t do your job say, three years ago?
3
You know that fraud will be sniffing around here trying to insert an apostrophe into that headline, one way or another.
1
Totally uncorroborated story by the NYT. It appears as if they’ve lost all of their ethics. Would understand if there was balance. For example a side by side story of Da Nang Dick Blumenthal. But no, the paper is fully devoted to non stop daily Trump bashing. All because of what? ....answer: he won the election in 2016 and beat HRC, the most corrupt politician in the history of the US. So sad to see the NYT lose it’s way. May God bless President Trump and the number one country in the world, the USA!
2
@Sven Gall You describe this article as a totally uncorroborated story, while in the same paragraph describe Hillary Clinton as the "most corrupt politician in the history of the US." Really? And your proof is???
5
The Vietnam War defined those of us who came of age in the ‘60s and ‘70s. For young men, whether you went - voluntarily or through the draft - and what you experienced while there and when you returned became an indelible part of your history. If you didn’t - because of a deferment, conscientious objection, a high draft number, leaving the country - your life’s path was altered too. Women served in the armed forces as well; many others joined the anti-war movement, and some took direct action as part of groups that raided draft boards and destroyed files. Families suffered irreparable losses and nurtured veterans who returned wounded and troubled. This generation was, in Yeats’ words, “All changed, changed utterly.”
So this story, told decades later, matters. It is an account of a young, self-centered and privileged man who took not a principled stance, but an expedient one - one not available to thousands upon thousands in his age cohort. It is part of a clear pattern of Trump’s showing that, in his view, rules don’t apply to him. He didn’t have to take a stance on the war; his dad would just fix the problem of draft eligibility for him. Follow his life story and it’s repeated again and again - one “fixer” after another takes care of him or does his bidding, from Queens to the Oval Office.
197
With all the help Trump received in avoiding responsibility and consequences through dishonesty, is it any wonder he behaves the way he does today ? still a child who needs someone else to protect him, even in the most powerful position in the world where he is supposed to care for all of us
25
With all the investigations currently underway in regards to Trump and his administration, and more to come, is this all really worth time and space in the news?
This man has a death grip on our nation and is a threat to every peace loving democracy on Earth. We need to keep the focus on the here and now of what he's doing.
Leave the heel spurs to the historians.
7
@JJS
I hope you're sitting down to read this - apparently you're incapable of standing upright while reading (too much multi-tasking). The newspapers have lots of room to use to present their articles, so suggestions to ignore yet another depiction of Spanky's childish behavior is kind of silly. Can't blame you for feeling ashamed after voting for him, but as we said in RVN - "That sounds like a personal problem to me."
2
@JJS
If you had lived during the Second World war there was never a lower human being then a draft dodger ,I guess your feeling to keep this story away in the historians closet file cabinet reflects that you may not appreciate the dead soldiers and their families who w/o question served and died in Vietnam, perhaps you are to young to remember the weekly "body counts ",back then and that ensuing sadness?
2
Sorry, can’t agree - if even a few of the trump loving military are swayed by this article, then there is benefit to our country.
1
So is this kind of favor it took to get a leaky pipe fixed in a Trump owned apartment?
Too bad for all the other tenants who could not provide such favors! or the non-tenants denied even the “privilege” to rent.
The shady deal making started a long time ago.....
25
Donald Trump most certainly did serve his country. He was no chickenhawk. He faced danger every day during his tour of duty while walking point in the Central Highlands of...
...Studio 54.
19
Did anybody NOT already know that the Toddler in Chief was a draft dodger? It is disgraceful, the extent to which the right wingers will deceive themselves about such things. The same people who railed against Bill Clinton for not serving give W a pass on his questionable Air Force reserve service and 45 a pass on his out and out fraud.
20
@Roy
Easy now - next you'll be calling them shameless hypocrites.
1
Like everything else in Trump's life this was a cheat. Trump's love for America stops at his front door.
7
@William O, Beeman...it stops at his "feet".
Listen up, Kiddos: Trump is nothing more than an old Democrat. That's right, he is an old New York/New Jersey Democrat.
1
@duststorm
New Jersey? Huh? Queens is as far from New Jersey as Houston is from Galveston.
2
Houston we have a problem: Trump is a Republican, incompetent, susceptible to being bullied, and doing his utmost to undo the domestic and international foundations of American strength and credibility.
4
@duststorm
Gee ! you seem to have forgot he WAS a Democrat that switched over , truly my friend w/o that proverbial gun pointed at his head he knew the people that would support his agenda and even in some peoples opinion destroyed the Republican party from the Reagan-Bush era and made it tolerant of lies , historical distortion and president Trumps incompetence while creating a government administrated by Twitter.
2
Trump's Queen's podiatrist's accounts of his draft-dodgeable bone-spurs in 1968 are only the thin edge of the remove and replace our 45th president wedge.
2
But we all kind of knew this - right?
7
@Concerned MD
Exactly-- there are accounts in the news of him playing tennis/golf-- if recollection holds-- during that period.
2
Now, in retrospect, we know the Vietnam war was executed for corrupt purpose and more than 50,000 Americans were killed for this. Now we are again reminded that our current President, who is a master of corruption, began walking in those corrupt shoes early on, never feeling an ounce of patriotism or anxiety, never feeling any pain from those fake bone spurs. Everything about this man is corrupt. We are not surprised. We are surprised, actually shocked, that the Republicans are unwilling to face this corruption. We see how they cower when corruption asserts itself. And they remain silent when John McCain is attacked by cowardice.
18
This is not really surprising, and that's the problem.
Just another day on Trumps 5th Ave. of lies and crimes.
10
Like grandfather, father, and son. The Trumps are all cowards. Grandpa Friedrich escaped compulsory military duty in Germany by immigrating to the US (he should have been detained and deported because he was a criminal, a "bad hombre" Trump talks about now). Daddy Fred, who claimed he was Swedish during WWII, didn't serve in either the European or Pacific theaters but built barracks for the Navy (I guess someone had to do it). And little Donnie, well, we all know about him. Finally, none of Donnie's kids volunteered to serve - the continuing privilege of being white and wealthy.
In short, the Trump DNA is to lie, cheat and do anything possible to serve yourself at the cost of those around you. I can only hope that Barron decides that he will break from that past.
16
@Andrew Bermant
"Finally, none of Donnie's kids volunteered to serve"
I'm willing to give Don & Eric a pass - there's no way they would've been assessed as fit to serve.
1
If he had bone spurs in his late teens, early twenties.....surely an a ray or other type of scan would find traces of the conditions.
Of course, in matters like these, and others, for example income taxe filings, Trump will not be transparent because it will expose his lies.
It's all consistent with the qualities of a cheat, fraudster, liar that we have come to know better.
10
Note that Trump is listed as being 6’2” on one of the documents. He apparently grew an inch since being elected president
5
@James Tupper that's because of the growth of his bone spurs.
5
We can all wish the weight of the position helps Trump make a "spur" of the moment decision to voluntarily throw in the towel in the New Year, since serving in Vietnam was far from voluntary. The country will do just fine without him and his family.
8
What difference does it make who gave Donald Trump a medical excuse to avoid being drafted into the Army during the Viet Nam war? He was very much more qualified to be cannon fodder in Viet Nam than he is now to be Commander in Chief. So, perhaps if he never got his medical exemption America would be in a better place today. Even if we can never change history we can certainly learn from history. So why haven't we?
3
In the current political culture, this story has no bite.
In years gone by, proving that the president had lied would mean something.
Now, there are no consequences. Too many people have been taken in by this guy. They either believe everything he says or, if proven false, choose to ignore the lie.
I think the best we can do is to wait for them to wake up, see the error of their ways and vote him out.
But, for now, one more story like this is water off a duck's back.
11
How did Trump avoid an actual military physical? Was it customary at the time to just send a doctor's note? How did he get away with it?
1
@MaryEllen
The simple answer is that the New York draftees ended up consisting mostly of men of color, black and brown. A white person--like me--could bring a note to the Whitehall Street exam to present to a probably white physician. There was a written test, a physical, a visit with a shrink, and finally a waiting room. Papers were shuffled, then names were called. Most Blacks, particularly, were called to serve. Most whites walked out. So much depended on the local draft board and its demographics. For a more poetic recounting of the experience, listen to Alice's Restaurant, by Arlo Guthrie.
@MaryEllen Trump would have had a physical and a battery of written tests at his local processing/induction station, (along with other men from his same draft board on the same day that Donald had his). If he claimed that he had bone spurs, he would then be scheduled to meet with a physician at a future date, at the same facility, during which time the doctor would read the report from Drs. Braunstein and Weinstein and make a fitness-for-duty determination. The good doctor would then notify Selective Service Draft Board #63 of his finding and the Board would then issue Trump his classification. Hope this helps.
There were many reasons men did not serve in Vietnam. The point is that trump and trump's father may well have paid (by favors and rent incentives) to have a false diagnosis and documentation. Fraud on the government is fraud even if Vietnam was not a "just" war.
13
As a practicing, newer-generation foot specialist I can tell you that the notion of a heel spur being a disqualifying diagnosis is absolutely ridiculous. What is more ridiculous is how often the diagnosis "heel spur syndrome" is still thrown around among the more mature medical community when it is well established that plantar heel pain does not emanate from this bone growth. In extremely rare circumstances, an example being the inflammatory arthropathies, this diagnosis may be relevant. To this day, I still see more mature practitioners bringing patients to the OR for heel spur resection surgery for recalcitrant plantar fasciopathy.
6
So diagnosis and treatment at an earlier time was different than you currently practice? Good to know.
@MillenialDPM
Unfortunately, some surgeons still adhere to the old dictum that resident trainees would utter to medical students-" when in doubt, cut it out.'
I am reminded of Dan Rather's downfall following the TV screen recreation of the draft/military records detailing bush junior's jet jockey adventures. Funny, I often find myself referring to trump as bush. From my 69 year perspective they seem similar.
3
@KM Me too on trump/bush from my 76 year perspective and being from Texas - Rich kids in TX joined the national guard to get out of going to Vietnam
In our (justified) rage at trump let's not forget those who served. Many never came back. Some lives were ruined forever.
11
@Peter
Ruined forever by the very government we now bemoan being lead by an incompetent. What is America?
This story is hardly surprising given Trump's lifelong enjoyment of immense privilege and his utter disdain for living by the rules that ordinary people must abide. However, let's not forget that the Vietnam War was an evil that far surpasses this corruption, and his avoidance of "service" in that war shouldn't retroactively ennoble the war itself. I was lucky enough to miss the draft - a low lottery number at the tail end of the era - but would have done anything, legal or illegal, to avoid going to Vietnam.
3
Is there nothing in Trump's history that doesn't involve deceit, manipulation and fraud?
24
@Jim In Tucson
Nothing I've seen.
3
Talk about "...a rich man's war and a poor man's fight." I hold no judgment against any person for avoiding the Vietnam War and I write this as someone who finds the current US President despicable; lower than a snake's instep.
Mr."Punches Back Harder" is unable to muster the courage, self-respect, and respect for another to, man-to-man and face-to-face, fire them. Trump used children, the B S A, to salve his personal and political insecurities.
He bullies, ridicules and slurs from the safe remove of his Twitter account. Not that any US President should be in harm's way, but still, shouldn't "the most powerful person in the world" have no need to do so? Does the moon acknowledge a barking dog?
Here, when he wants an audience for his obnoxious behavior, appears before adoring crowds. In Davos, however, before a group of the world's elite, he's tempered. Wouldn’t a truly courageous US President, who, on behalf of the "forgotten person" as Trump claims he attends to, behave in the reverse? He'd seize the opportunity to tell off the word's elite, but he didn't. He reserves his worst behavior for his voters who, apparently, don't know or care how that insults them.
Trump's absence of bravery is a given, hardly worth mentioning in it obviousness. Here's the point-
Bring back the mandatory military draft. And the first pool of inductees should be culled from the 1% and the children of the executives and shareholders of defense contractors, no deferments, no exceptions.
6
I didn’t need to read this article to confirm what was already so obvious about a man who is a lying, narcissistic grifter , from a family of the same. My husband, an asthmatic, was deferred for a real condition. Most recently, trump has falsified his medical records to run for President, as his doctor admitted to this fact. My only question is: why does any moral, thinking citizen of this country, continue to believe and support a man who most likely will be removed from office before his first term ends?
10
One’s opinion about the war in Vietnam and one’s behavour as to his responsibilitiy in the draft to The United States of America and to other Americans are two distinctly different things. All Americans have a right to their opinion and the right to express it.
However during the Vietnam war the draft was a shared responsibility for men in the defense of America as determined by presidents, Whether those decisions by government were right or wrong, answering your call to the draft was your part of your responsibility to the USA and part of your shared responsibility to every other man who was eligible to be called into service. Other respectible and legal options were to be CO and do national service or go to federal prison.
Lying about a physical condition to evade your draft responsibility during Vietnam was not just cowardice but an act of treason.
Although this story is not perfectly supported by all the facts, we have seen from the life of trump not only does he have a history of not being a “stand up man”, as president he has constantly made vile vicious degrading comments about others with military achievements, used other people as leverage in his “deal making” and defended billions of dollars in trade as a fair price for a human life.
For trump, having others respond to the draft and placing themselves in danger so he could earn more money is of the lowest and most despicable of human behaviour.
2
So this is the reason why Trump has said that he is smarter than his Generals??
4
I firmly believe that Trump is unfit to be President. But this article is and example of the Press's unhealthy fixation with Trump. I mean who cares what Doctor got him a deferment? This is nit-picky. Concentrate on the things that he's doing to hurt the nation. (The article on his finances is a different story).
Other examples of Trump obsession: publishing every foolish tweet especially tweets that contain clear falsehoods. Repeating Trump lies just help to spread the lie. Even if you reference the lie as " unsubstantiated" or "without evidence"
Cable television news is besotted with Trump. "All Trump all the Time".
Focus on the issues: How have the tax cuts worked out? What does the future hold for the budget? How many immigrants are entering the country now? How many children are held by the Government? What happened to the immigration bill that passed the Senate several years ago with strong bipartisan support? And so forth.
2
@rgfrw A famous man once said "People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook..." I think people who care about the truth care about what the evidence shows. This story in The Times isn't the whole story, but it's evidence. The president's attitude toward the military, and his relationship to the truth, matter - always.
There is a moment in Oliver Stone's Platoon, where Charlie Sheen's character provides a voiceover narration musing about all the grunts who came from small towns that "no one's ever heard of." My father was one of these men: St. Paul, Kansas, population 650. The draft quotas in his small region of the country mandated that he served, and he had no way out. He viewed it as a sentence, I think. But my dad made it through unscathed, returned home, raised a family, and found a little corner in society affording modest success after serving in the military for over 20 years.
I remember when things were ramping up quite seriously in Iraq around 2002, and talk of a draft was the buzz around my college campus. My dad, casually--though in all seriousness--mentioned of me going to Canada if stuff really got heated.
My family is one of staunch, midwest Democrats with zero love for Trump, NYC, real estate empires, and the like. But there is something about fathers wanting their sons to avoid war. But only because they experienced it themselves, knew of the uncountable horrors. Fred Trump spent WWII building apartments (and helped fanned rumors that we was of Swedish origin, rather than German, because that would have been "bad for business").
I am utterly baffled by those who are both pro-Trump and pro-military; he doesn't care about the troops (remind me again how many times has he visited all those stationed overseas? Oh right.). He's using you. It's all just part of his show.
329
I have some difficulty reconciling this report and my overall opinion of the current resident of the nation's house. I despise him with every ounce of my being but am conflicted over the significance of this period of his history. Once my student deferment ran out I too had to deal with my 1A selective service classification and my draw of number 62 in the first Viet Nam era draft lottery. Because of the kindness and anti war stance of my childhood physician in Brooklyn, I was able to avoid service until my draft board serendipitously misplaced my records. I was luckier than many of my classmates. And other than my species, I have something else in common with the man I detest. At the age of 70 does it matter? I ask myself the question every morning.
12
But most likely if you were in the same position as he you would treat the people military with respect and dignity. He couldn't even be bothered with an international ceremony commemorating the end of a world war, he attacked a gold star family and denigrated John McCain.
3
Yes but you are not the President, discrediting John McCain because he prefers people who weren’t captured.
3
@Paul Schatz
It does matter because all of those names on the wall mattered to their loved ones. All rich entitled people who were able to get out of the war have always carried themselves as somehow more worthy than the people who fought for this country.
Trump and his father active member of the KKK have always gotten over and hated everyone else who wasn’t white and rich,
My family fought and died in that horrific war just like people are fighting and dyning now
Only a fool would say it doesn’t matter because it does. Not a day goes by that these men and women are not missed.
Trump is the looser on the big picture and his family.
1
Finding a doctor to come up with a claim of bone spurs on an otherwise healthy 22 year old is not a surprise, even though the actual diagnosis is highly questionable. DJT wasn’t the first or last to essentially pay his way out of service. He is, however, the only man I have heard claim that *his* VietNam was avoiding contracting an STD during those years! I am also noting how much his signature has changed. That scrawl he uses now reflects a rather chaotic mind. And now THAT has me wondering about the avoidance claim.
19
It’s only his signature that speaks of a chaotic mind?!
1
The entire family are grifters, only driven by self interest and money. Trump doesen't have the ability, or empathy, to think about who went in his place, and what happened to him. His father bailed him out financially and morally, enshring Trump in the Coward Hall of Fame. That cowardice is the same reason he has not visited American troops in warzones.
57
Hmmm...The president should take a close examination of his draft card, especially the signature. His current signature and that on the card no longer match. In some states, that would disqualify him from voting.
166
Didn't we all realize that trump lied about his 'medical condition'? He's lied about EVERYTHING else!
He is an opportunist not a patriot. He is a coward, not a hero. He is a fool. period.
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@Debbie
A very dangerous fool this Country needs to unload.
This is trumps "birther" moment.
18
Fake news. POTUS DID serve in Vietnam and received the purple heart for bravery. So many people know this. Personally evacuated 1000 people under deadly siege, sometimes by marching barefoot through the jungle, often with three or four little children on his back, and NEVER ONCE complained about the bone spurs. Unlike John McCain the loser who was held in a prison camp, POTUS escaped that same prison camp by outsmarting hundreds of Viet Cong soldiers. SAD that NYTimes shows so little respect for our bravest and greatest American hero EVER. COVFEFE!
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@Mike
oh dear, this will soon become a fox news fact.
4
This sniveling coward, know it all President, won't even visit the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Why not, Trump? Afraid? You're incapable of commanding anything except your greed. You sir, are a joke and a disgrace. You are unworthy.
43
The coward draft dodger is now a prez too cowardly to visit troops in war zones.
24
But we do have to remember that Mafia Don suffered his own "personal Vietnam".... STDs! Poor guy!
6
Of course he avoided the draft. Trump at his core is a bully and a coward. His bravado is always the mask he wears to hide behind. Only the symbol-minded in this country and in uniform could continue to support him. Kim Jong Un was right. He's a dotard.
19
Another Trump family scam. Everything this family does is tainted by corruption. Putin picked a perfect mark.
43
Why didn’t these daughters make a thing out of this during the 2016 campaign? It probably would have made no difference to Trump’s base.
Just more evidence that Trump is a weasel and a coward and his base doesn’t hold him to ANY ethical or even legal standards.
17
Clearly, Trump is a born liar.
12
@Dr. Ricardo Garres Valdez You've heard of "Born Again Christians", well Trump's a born again liar!!!!!
Like the President, in 1970 I also earned a 1-Y.
I left college for a semester to have two tumors removed from my foot. The school notified my draft board. I was immediately summoned for a physical. I traveled into Brooklyn in a bus packed full of other draft "candidates". First came a mental acumen test (the sergeant told us that no one would leave the room until they passed, so don't even bother trying to fail). Then a long and thorough physical.
I had three 3" screws in my leg from my accident the prior year so the Army took an x-ray to verify their existence. The captain examining the x-rays, looked at me with disdain. "What are the screws still doing in there? You should have them taken out..."
"What's my classification with them in?" I asked.
"1-Y. You can only be called up in a national emergency..."
"You won't have to call me up in a national emergency, I will volunteer..."
"Get them out," he advised.
As I left the room, I held up my x-rays and the men in the crowded waiting room cheered, and slapped me on the back. Later I asked my surgeon about removing those screws, he shook his head; "They're in there for life."
I was against the war and glad that I wasn't going. But I have always honored the bravery of my friends who served in Nam, and one who didn't come back. Perhaps my painful operations and long recovery served as a small reminder of the price so many paid over there. But not our President. He's a coward and a bully.
Bone Spurs? my foot!
22
While I am no fan of Donald Trump, and an avid reader of the Times, this article is no more than a thinly veiled hit piece more suited to the National Enquirer than the "paper of record". Supported by nothing more than hearsay and surmise, the reporter and editor have blown the unsupported opinions of daughters of podiatrists into earthshaking indictments of just another guy trying to get out of the draft. The Times seems to be sinking into the abyss of hysteria.
6
@Jrose If you believe Trump had a legitimate medical deferment, then you also believe in Santa Claus. The man, his family, his friends are all con artists, frauds and crooks. He will pay soon for these sins.
1
Then, he was just another guy. Now he’s the President, who claimed he preferred people who weren’t captured, in belittling John McCain’s service and war experience.
1
You are a fan of Donald Trump. Live with it.