The solution is quite simple - unify Ireland
25
Brexit is insane and no one seems to be able to (or want to) stop it.
Did the English (who voted for this mess) catch the same mental disease as the US citizens who voted for Trump? What were they thinking? It sounds like "ready, fire, aim")
If the Irish Republic would allow true freedom of religion and not abuse or reduce the rights of the non-Catholic Northern Irish, the island should consider becoming one country.
9
You are pretty close with the Trump comparison. Many of these are Ulster plantation loyalists kept up their traditions and their offsprings were great servants of their the crown when they spread out to America ,India , Africa . Many of their far out cousins in America haven’t changed going back to George Washington , The American Civil War, Civil rights etc.. Many like living their past history.
4
thank you Mr Goodman for the on-site and only clear vision I've read of the probable dilemma of the 'border' -- excellent journalism!
8
The obvious solution is to unify the north and the south. The problem is Northern Ireland is a drag on the economy of GB and would be a drag on the economy of the Republic. Nobody really wants it but Britain and May must have the votes from the Unionist Toadys in parliament. A united Ireland, free from the influence of the crown would be the best solution for all but a few old Unionists in the North. Time to toss aside their worries and get on with the business of reunification.
14
I wonder as the ‘hard border’ will be so harmful to both Northern Ireland & the Republic of Ireland why no Irish political leader proposes that the two put aside their historical differences and amalgamate into one thereby keeping the whole island as full-fledged members of the E.U. while England, Scotland, & Wales go it alone? May will fall without the support of the Irish Protestants but that would be a small price for the Irish to pay.
7
Great Britain clearly needs to abandon Brexit, but its politicians (like those everywhere, not exactly "profiles in courage") appear unable to figure out how to do this. As something of an expert on the role of constitutional monarchs (the subject of my Ph.D. dissertation at Johns Hopkins University) I recently proposed that Queen Elizabeth II should make this decision herself despite the long tradition that says she shouldn't. My commentary notes that there are modern precedents for royal action in both Norway and Sweden. https://www.newsmax.com/paulfdelespinasse/germany-gustav-haakon-norway/2018/12/18/id/894919/
5
The premise of this piece is nonsense, which is that the Troubles could re-ignite because of a 'hard Border'. It is being touted around for political advantage by people, e.g. the Irish government, who know better. The Border was, for sure, the symbol of the Troubles but not the direct cause. What began the Troubles, and sustained them for so long, was the grievances suffered by the Catholic or Nationalist population at the hand of the Protestant or Unionist government. This is why the bulk of the violence during the Troubles happened in Belfast, many miles away from the Border. People who joined or gave support to the IRA in Belfast did so not out of anger or concern about the nature of the Border but because of what was happening to them on their own streets. It took the British several decades to fully realise this and give expression to a solution in the form of the Good Friday Agreement, which created a power sharing government and guarantees of equality. That arrangement has been in suspension for the best part of two years and its uncertain future presents a greater threat to peace in Ireland than a 'hard' border ever could. Europe, the British government and the authorities in Dublin could spend their time more profitably if they worried less about the nature of the border post-Brexit and more about the health of that agreement. Unfortunately this simple truth manages to evade most reporters covering this story, including your own correspondent.
17
Hopefully the UK will revoke the Article 50 withdrawal notification to give everyone more time to think before they act.
7
In the words of the great Paul McCartney: "Give Ireland back to the Irish; make Ireland Irish today"
14
If the Republic of Ireland decides to stay in the EU, they deserve a hard border with Northern Ireland.
2
Countries have borders. Big deal
5
I have planned a visit to Ireland this summer, with a day trip to Belfast. I wonder if I should rethink this plan.... border issues? Possibly a return to violence ( as if that solves anything)? High taxes on a souvenir wool sweater on one side or the other (or both)? I don’t mean to be flippant but I am concerned...
3
The ending makes it sound like this all started in 68. Good lordy. My family fled in the 1920s from the violence between Protestants and Catholics. And we can go back much much farther than that.
12
I am not sure who said it but I recently heard someone on the radio say " Leadership is explaining what is hard, hard to understand, and hard to accept."
The British " leadership" says, we must listen to the people. But the voters were lied to and mislead.
Prime minister May must explain the hard truths. Brexit means economic hardship if not ruin to the British economy.
May must explain the truth of Brexit. If they want no immigrants and to be be shut off from the world they must accept the realities that come with that.
Brexit does not mean the glory of the British Empire of the Victorian and Edwardian Times comes back.
May and the British government must come clean to the people.
They were lied to Brexit was and is a con game and the only one who wins is Putin.
17
@Liza Not as lied to as we were in the 70s when we were told that entering the EEC as it was then would be a route to free trade. Instead it has became a route to the Holy Roman Empire mk2 superstate with a soon to be created EU army.
As for the migrants the only thing they offered was higher profits for the big corporations that got away with lowering wages and higher house prices for the people already here. In the last few decades I have watched wages stagnate along with living standards and the reason is that the country cannot handle the millions of extra people turning up on our doorstep without damaging our way of life.
3
@Wilson You misrepresent EU membership vis-à-vis Britain. Britain's economy is 10% better off since its entrée into the EU; it became a competitor with France and Germany, after struggling along as the 'sick man of Europe'. I recall the 1970s: the inedible food and gloom of a country just out of the three-day week. I've lived through the intervening years, and until three years ago - when the Brexit fiasco began - Britain was doing well, in some ways more than well. (Your perspective in NI will inevitably be different, because the Troubles were happening with a vengeance there for decades.)
Your analysis of the EU as a "Holy Roman Empire mk2 superstate with a soon to be created EU army" is not accurate, in my view. Britain enacts its own laws and was, as an EU member, a valued entity at the EU negotiating table. As for your formulation, an "EU army", this has been mooted only as a defensive union against Putin - whose wargames and border-buzzing make him a real threat to Europe. It remains a theory, so far.
Finally, your comment regarding migration is strange. According to official figures, to mid-2017, some 22,100 people came to Northern Ireland to live (7.3% less than in the year ending mid-2016). A little over 50% came from outside Britain; 48.8% were from Britain. Britain meanwhile needs migrants to do much of its work, from agriculture to hospital support staff. "Our way of life" is not damaged by migrants. It is made possible by migrants.
23
Wilson, your good old days for the few are not coming coming back. The world has moved on.
8
Another politically charged article formulated to sate the appetite of the Irish American lobby in NY. No mention of the fact that the main party in Northern Ireland is pro brexit / anti PM May’s capitulation/deal and that the remain vote here was far behind that of Scotland and London.
At the end of the day the UK voted as a whole to enter the EU and now they have voted as a whole to leave. The southern Irish governments biggest fear is losing access to the UK market from which they have long stolen companies with generous tax breaks whilst promising an open door.
And as for the border, we need it to stop the people smuggling into the UK as well as many other nefarious activities e.g fly tipping bin lorries for the south. How would the Americans like it if the border with Canada let alone Mexico was wide open? Would you feel comfortable?
A 5 minute check is a small price to pay no matter what what a vociferous criminal minority claims to the contrary.
3
@Wilson Could I respectfully remind Mr Wilson that the electorate of Northern Ireland voted against Brexit, as did the Scots? The Democratic Unionist Party, which is not actually in government in the North, seized its opportunity to extract cash from the Tory government in return for DUP support.
25
@SB Nrthern Ireland is only one region of the UK. As a whole the country voted to leave the EU. The context of the vote was not a separate Northern Ireland in the EU and out of the UK but of Northern Ireland inside the UK and the EU. If the vote were based on the former there would have been a completely different result.
The reason there is no regional government here is that we have a bespoke system, (thanks to Mr Blair), crafted to appease the nationalists and Mr Clinton which creates nothing but logjam and inaction. Regional governments are unnecessary in any case when we already have MPs and councillors.
Maybe if Southern Ireland had voted to stay in the UK it would have solved many problems today instead of creating division.
SB,
Its obvious that Wilson has a "particular" allegiance to the DUP, and the idea that anyone would have the gall to take issue with anything he or she states is factual, is simply not to be considered, just not possible ...
There are still hardcore Unionists in the British occupied territory of the Republic of Ireland, (Northern Ireland) and they will go to their graves bemoaning the loss of the rest of Ireland during its ill-advised partition in 1921; for these descendants of British colonial policies, the demise of the British Empire has left a hole in their hearts, and somehow or other they imagine its rise from the ashes.
The return of the border restores his or her sense of superiority, lost when Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein had the temerity to agree to a peaceful end to the war for a United Ireland, and, apparently regrettably, in his or her eyes an end to the British supported DUP terrorist activities.
16
More Remain gibberish. The UK has steadfastly maintained that it wants no hard border with the Irish republic regardless whether it can strike a trade agreement with the EU prior to its March 2019 departure date. The only ones suggesting a hard border in Ireland is the EU as its onerous and stifling custom regulations may be threatened with an open land border with the UK. Any potential hard border separating Ireland with Northern Ireland will clearly be stamped "Made in Brussels" .
3
@Dave The real problem here is that the UK simply wants everything. (Gibraltar and Cyprus were conveniently stiffed as well, by the way.)
14
Good, i am happy then to know that as a european citizen, i will be able to continue to freely travel to the uk through the unexisting irish border! So much for stopping freedom of movement!
4
Dave... there has to be an element of truth in posts, and it is this... already enshrined in Law the Legal text of the Good Friday Agreement or Belfast Accord, specifically notes in International Law, “There shall be no hard border between North and South”, it is delusional and fatuous to post otherwise, and to blame EU, if UK were to Remain and Ireland Leave EU... they would offer us the same protection. It isn’t an Island of Ireland border, it’s the only LAND border between UK and EU.
9
It would make much more sense for N. Ireland, Scotland and the Irish Republic to become a country that it would be for any of them to maintain ties with Little England, formerly known as Great Britain.
23
@Jay David My Catholic cousins in Northern Ireland actually are not in favor of this, considering as how the benefits in the UK are more favorable than those in the Republic. It would be a separation likely far more messy than Brexit.
6
@Jay David
Ah, to dream ...
Imagine the DUP having to tolerate The Irish Empire, of Ireland. (North and South), Scotland, and Wales, and England with hat in hand, having to knock on our door seeking admittance as a trading partner, and perhaps ceding sovereignty to become part of our Empire, and we bog-trotters examining their books before agreeing.
I wonder if Arlene Foster could learn how to dance an Irish jig; actually she would be so put out I imagine her pounding the floorboards with aggrieved abandon ...
Wilson, commenting, would have a stroke.
9
Chickens come home to roost. And so colonial boundaries, foisted on the weak and maintained by pandering politicians over the centuries, continue to cause problems for the descendants of the dividers and rulers. Now this.
18
In the mid'90s I went to Belfast on business for a software company to meet with customers. From there I drove down to Dundalk and south to Dublin, Waterford and Limerick for other customer meetings. It was a bit intimidating to go through what were then hard border checkpoints, with armed soldiers on each side. There was a lot of questioning, but I was allowed to pass. I hope this border issue doesn't reoccur now because the the people of both countries deserve better.
53
It is indeed true that the future of the Irish border hovers “over the Brexit proceedings as the single most intractable problem and the element most liable to yield disaster”. Britain has been getting sucked into the Irish bog for the past eight centuries.
Winston Churchill wrestled with similar issues while negotiating the Anglo-Irish treaty. He asked: “How is it that the English political parties are shaken to their foundations and even shattered in almost every generation by contact with Irish affairs? Whence does this mysterious power of Ireland come? How is it she has forced generation after generation to stop the whole traffic of the British Empire to debate her domestic affairs?” (December 21st, 1921).
Eduardo Galeano, Uruguayan writer reminds us that, “No history is mute. No matter how much they own it, break it, and lie about it, human history refuses to shut its mouth .”
Diarmaid Ferriter, Irish historian, recently wrote that what compounds the problem is “the breathtaking ignorance” of Brexiteers on the Irish Border issue as “Westminster continues to deny and elide”. Theresa May, prime minister and the honorable MPs should listen to the late great Tommy Makem’s signature song, Four Green Fields to fill in the gaps of their historic ignorance on the UK border in Ireland.
Might the Brexit debate be re-framed: if the UK would not only leave the EU but also depart from Ireland, the ancient problem of the English border in Ireland would finally be resolved?
28
@Robert
Beautifully put.
3
@Robert
Thank you for this. The root of the problem is British actions in Ireland whether 400 years ago, 150 years ago or now. The British make these decisions based on what is best for them leaving what is best for Ireland completely out of the equation.
12
@ Robert
Fortunately or unfortunately neither Ferriter or Makem speak for the majority community in Northern Ireland. As Dan O’Brien of the Irish Independent has pointed out several times, both of the unionist parties in Northern Ireland are against any deal which brings the union with England, Scotland, and Wales into question. Clumsy attempts by ‘my’ government to use Brexit to drive a wedge between Northen Ireland and the rest of the UK actually fly in the face of the delicate balance struck in the Good Friday agreement which enshrined the principal of majority consent, in Northern Ireland, for any status change. That majority consent clearly does not exist. Hyping up the border question as an all or nothing issue plays into the hands of the men of violence on both sides. As Gerry Adams, that noted ‘democrat’ said, they haven’t gone away you know. Clear statements from both governments that a customs border can work, and will be made to work, are needed. The results of all or nothing ultimatums on single issues can never be predicted or controlled, as the Brexit vote itself showed.
5
Britain has abused Ireland for so long I can't help but feel some slight satisfaction that the Isle is now a major hitch in the ridiculous idea of Brexit. All of Ireland should be United as One country. My regret is that if the exit proceeds without Irish Unification, the people there will likely be made to pay a hard price.
69
@Syd
I always believed that we Irish posses tremendous stores of resilience, evidenced by our centuries-long struggle against a colonial power, England, whose people pioneered the ideas that destroying the language, religion, and customs of the people it subjugated, was right and proper, all of which it did in an effort to bring the people of Ireland to heel
Northern Ireland is the last colonial outpost, in Europe, of the now dead British Empire.
20
The Empire is gone over 150 years or so, but not to the English. After 45 years as members of the EU, most English consider themselves English or British, but never Europeans. This brought on Brexit. Maybe the younger ones want Europe, the rest need a change of mindset. I suggest a few years of hardship under Brexit may make them 'wake up and smell the tea/coffee'.
23
I'm not so sure the citizens of the Republic want to unite with the still majority Protestant north so many of whom are less educated and much less prosperous than they are. I've spent enough time in Ireland to have heard their view that they don't need the burden these folks would bring. Let nature take its course and let the Catholics become the majority and vote for unification. Then Ireland will be one and the five fields will be joined together again.
15
The solution is simple: unite the island, restore Ireland.
The Irish majority will have to work hard to protect and keep welcome British emigres and their decedents, but Ireland was always going be united at some point, best to erase this false fiction and uncut and uncut clean.
14
@Marty O'Toole
Your solution is simple, but that doesn't mean that it will work. We in the US have been offered a lot of simple worldviews and solutions by the current administration, neglecting the real difficulty of solving real problems. A lot of smart and brave people have tackled the problems of northern Ireland, and I think all acknowledge that no lasting solutions are simple.
5
Didn’t Northern Ireland vote Remain? Stick a border down the Irish Sea, hold a vote of reunification and pay for anyone in Ulster who wants to move to Britain. If we can afford Trident, we can afford that. About time we dropped these fragments of empire, look ourselves in the mirror and join the rest of the real world.
Do the same to Gibraltar too while we’re at it.
Hopefully the Scots will stay in the union, as we need their votes to stop England descending into Little Toryland hell - but if they want independence, then good on them and good luck to them (and hopefully they’ll accept English refugees...).
43
I suspect "crashing out" would precipitate an NI referendum of its own, to drop out of the self-condemned UK and join the Republic. The younger generation of NI citizens, opposing and being shafted by Brexit, are just waiting for greying Orangement and Sinn Fein to die.
11
Good time to have an island wide vote on one government for Ireland. Forget England. They don't need them. Let England deal with their inane Brexit on their own.
29
The title of this article is factually incorrect. False news yet again from the Times
There is no scenario that anyone in the UK will accept that reimposes the “back stop” of a border in place
Ironically Brexit is most likely to lead to the reunification of one Ireland
1
Northern Ireland joining Irish Republic is the solution here; or at least exiting United Kingdom and joining EU as an independent nation. It would be a historic correction to the forced colonization through the Plantation of Ulster by Charles 1 more than 400 years back and the barbaric "divide and conquer" policy by the imperial Britain.
Britain can have its Brexit; Irish can be united without a border.
54
@Say What
Nothing was "forced" unless, of course, you consider Catholics being forced off THEIR land.
Cromwell rewarded Scots (Presbyterians) who helped him and "the puritans" win the English civil war with land in Ulster.
9
Brexit will probably lead to an independent Scotland, which voted to stay in the EU. The Scots are seriously displeased with a non EU UK. The vote to stay in the UK won by a thin margin. The chaos of Brexit will probably push the Scoots to vote for independence.
If Scotland goes independent it will make little sense for the UK to continue to subsidize Northern Ireland. With Scotland gone the Tories will easily dominate the government and won't need the Northern Irish Loyalist members of Parliament to form a government. If the Tories, plus Brexit, conti9nues to deteriorate National Health and even the universities, then those benefits that keep many Northern Irish from the Catholic community willing to stay in the UK will not be worth staying in the UK. England-Wales would be glad to be rid of Northern Ireland.
What would this future possible shrunken country call itself? It can't be the United Kingdom of Great Britain (which includes Scotland) and Northern Ireland. The United Kingdom of England and Wales? And what would happen to the Union Jack? Would the crosses of St. Patrick and St. Andrew be removed?
15
Post-Brexit, Britain simply wants a free trade agreement with the EU with no conditionalities and regulations, kind of the like the one Japan just negotiated with the EU. If Britain got this from the EU there would be no border issue with Ireland since smuggling would be a non-issue.
Post-Brexit the EU use Britain's case to remind its members that EU membership is valuable, indeed required, to get good trading terms.
In exchange for free trade, the EU can beat Britain with the Irish stick to make it comply with EU regulations even though the British voted to Leave.
The British government does not want to agree to EU regulations as a condition for trade and the EU does not want to offer free trade (to Britain) without EU regulations. still applying to them,
The Irish are caught in the middle although it has recently emerged that their leaders played a significant role in reminding the EU that the EU wielded this (Irish) power over the British.
8
The Brexit plan to rupture trade and hurt relationships established over 70 year old agreements to grow the European economies, can only been seen through the prism of Russia's intervention.
The schism now emerging between Ireland and England, is but one planned consequence to weaken western economies and foster cultural divides. For two years, the reporting by the Guardian found, a not so hard to find relationship between Aaron Banks, the curious millionaire benefactor-lobby for the split, was connected to Russian men of influence dealing in gold mines. Gee, could Putin have scored his biggest success early on with the exit vote? Makes Trump's election second fiddle.
16
There is no need for customs checks on the border. The UK has promised not to impose them, the EU could but won’t make the same promise.
2
@John Stroughair Of course they won't. If they did you would have a customs free entrance from the UK to the EU. The UK could proceed to eliminate environmental and labor rules in order to produce goods at lower cost than EU competitors and then export them via Ireland into the EU.
9
@John Stroughair Customs checks are a base requirement of WTO trade rules, part of international law. Neither side says they want them (in order to stay popular), but they both know that they (border checks) will have to happen regardless.
2
@John Stroughair
Why should they(EU) do the same. UK wants to "EXIT" the customs union. That would necessitate hard border. The Irish have been abused for many centuries. They have their say finally. Stop protecting the Ulster unionists and let the whole of Eire be one country. They deserve it.
6
As an American, I am troubled that a true leader hasn't emerged in Britain to question the Brexit vote, decry the wholly unworkable exit plan and demand a new election.
As an Irish-American, I see that the EU alliance was doing exactly what was intended, with no border becoming less visible and more evolved than the border with Northern Ireland. The aged political sentiments that would return with a poorly drafted Brexit in Northern Ireland would delay the de facto reunification that blossomed peacefully during EU administration.
That would be Brexit's worst and most discouraging side effect, a human disaster for a people that don't want it, didn't vote for it and would most harshly have to live with it.
22
Northern Ireland should remain in the EU and the hard boarder should be on the water. Checkpoints can be at seaports and airports on the island of Britain. This would mean an unusual situation where there would be tariffs collected on products moving between Britain and Northern Ireland, but I don't see why that wouldn't be workable. Northern Ireland would be politically united with Britain and economically united with Ireland and Europe.
8
@roseberry
"but I don't see why that wouldn't be workable."
Perfect. Perhaps you should offer your services to the PM? She has too many advisers now that insist on telling her the truth.
This is nonsense, NI is an integral part of the UK. This is like suggesting we kick Texas out of the union to deal with border issues.
1
@John Stroughair NI is only intergrated to the UK via ships and airplanes, which makes a difference. You don't need to build a wall in order to enforce the immigration restrictions which are the main point of Brexit. NI could still be politically integrated except that they would also be subject to Brussels, unlike the rest of the UK.
3
I do not blame all the propagandized low-information voters, many of them elderly and feeling passed-by, who voted for Brexit and Pinocchio Trump. I blame all the legions who rationalized that their votes wouldn't matter and stayed home. How many millions of them are screaming in frustration today instead of looking in the mirror?
45
@Chuck Burton
Good point, but lets please keep in mind we need every vote to turn our Trump and GOP electeds across the country in 2018. Let's reconcile - arms open - with anyone who can agree at least on that. Details can be worked out after we win.
6
@Chuck Burton
At the risk of not exhibiting a proper holiday spirit, I don't see why old folks should be given a pass for not troubling themselves to actually understand what they were casting their votes for.
18
Manta666, yes! What could possibly go wrong with asking everybody to get behind a single candidate, unpopular, no agenda other than to get more votes than Trump. We could cook the Primaries, fix the debate schedule, leak the debate questions and all rally behind the slogan, "It's HER turn!"
Why didn't anyone think about this sooner!
3
This is, as has always been the case, not a British problem nor even a European one. This is an Irish problem that deserves an Irish solution. Eight hundred years of solutions from London and beyond have been ineffective at best, and disastrous at worst.
It is time to let the Irish people on both sides of the border, and perhaps most importantly those right on it, solve this on their own.
Leave Ireland, once and for all, to the Irish.
65
Whatever one may think of the problems, the photos here by Paulo Nunes dos Santos are wonderful!
25
Of course, the thought lurking behind all of this is that when push comes to shove, this might be the impetus which causes at least part of the Loyalist community in Northern Ireland to think the unthinkable and contemplate eliminate the border altogether by joining the Republic. After all, Northern Ireland voted against leaving the EU. So did Scotland, which raises the question of how much of the Scottish population which voted to stay in the UK in 2014 are now regretting that decision. I can already see the political pitch to be made by Sein Fein or the Scottish Nationalist party -- why should Irish or Scottish prosperity be compromised by English stupidity? A question to which Brexit supporters -- thus far at least -- don't seem to have any good answers.
54
@curious The Catholic communities of Northern Ireland voted quite strongly to stay in the EU and this is why the over all vote was to stay. The Protestant community areas voted strongly to leave the EU. The pro-EU vote in NI cab be understood only in this context.
2
@John Mack
Ie, a largely Catholic majority doesn't count?
3
Another negative article highlighting only what was. Summarizing the past with no insight on the potential of what can come of this. The current situation is an opportunity to move in a new better way. Enough negative world ending articles on Brexit, this author just does not have the imagination of what good can come out of a new situation in a new time. Let's move forward in the new year positive and creative.
3
@SGM
So what's your solution to the border problem? The only good I see coming out of this is unification of Ireland, finally/
10
Oh please...do tell us the upsides. I’ve yet to see articles on either side of the Atlantic, from any reputable publication, ticking off the plethora of improvements British people will appreciate as the country withdraws from the EU.
If you know something everyone else doesn’t, phone it into Westminster, Brussels and Downing Street (& a stock broker) because you’ve got magic.
11
@SGMou
Please list six good things that Brexit will do for the Irish.
9
Maybe they could try unification; weird concept, I know.
17
Maybe Ireland should unify and stay in the EU, perhaps with Scotland. Wales? Little England is looming.
11
Londonderry is the Protestant name of the town. Derry is the Catholic name. It is polite to alternate between the two or use L’Derry.
24
@MG
you are kidding, yes?
3
Organized religion and government are the two institutions that have brought misery to untold generations of humankind.
11
@Mike: It was THE PEOPLE who voted for Brexit, not the government. Blame THE PEOPLE this time, though you may think Brexit is a great idea. It does not appear to be a great idea, though; either Britain is in the EU, with all its trade benefits, or it is out, and without the trade benefits. The EU will not let it have it both ways. Nor should it. Sometimes THE PEOPLE overlook complexities in public policy-making in favor of shortsighted ill-conceived simplistic "solutions."
5
Organized religion yes. Government is necessary, however.
4
When are the British, particularly the Parliament, going to realize the incredible disaster that any form of Brexit will be?
Just stop the stupidity - hold another referendum.
41
@Bill White
Like American Republicans, U.K. Brexiteers value their bigotry more than their prosperity.
Both nations are paying the high price of cowardice and hate.
27
A united Ireland would solve the issue. Not an easy process to be sure, but one that is probably inevitable. Start with a referendum in Norther Ireland about joining the Republic. It would now win in a landslide.
21
@Marcus Possibly. But National Health and the inexpensive British university system is much appreciated by most Catholics in NI. In fact the Catholic community as a whole is much more prosperous than the Protestant community because the Catholics have taken far more advantage of the universities than the Protestants. When the Catholic middle classes became active during the Troubles they agitated for civil rights, not for union with the Ireland. This won them the support of the EU, and eventually the Good Friday Agreement. But, yes, if the Tories continue to undermine National Health, and raise university tuitions (they say fees), getting out of the UK will become more attractive.
7
@John Mack
Soon catholics/nationalists will be the majority in N. Ireland and I do wonder if they will vote for unification or might they think things are pretty good and as long as London keep sending the cheques................
2
The border is the fault of Brexit, says the article. The border cannot be the fault of the EU, whose negotiating position is utterly rigid because how dare a sovereign country leave that exalted "community" without being made to feel the pain? Ask Brussels why IT thinks the risk of disruption and return to violence in Ireland is worth rigidity to protect sacred EU theology about "free movement"? How does Greenland manage to be outside Schengen, yet Danes do not have a hard border when visiting a part of their Realm that was theirs at least half a Millennium before Brussels starting regulating borders?
7
@JOHN
You need to read a little U.S. history, before critiquing the EU! Under our Articles of Confederation (i.e. pre-Constitution, but post-independence "America") NY could impose customs duties on goods landing at NYC piers, but destined to N.J. The Constitution eliminated those barriers to trade. Any of the 13 original Colonies that refused to sign the Constitution would be outside of this "customs union". The EU is the first step towards a United States of Europe. If you would but read a little of the history of your country, and even of your State, you might have some perspective of the problems facing the EU.
18
@Kenarmy Then how did this European customs union survive with border controls from Britain's entry in 1973 until a self-standing agreement (Schengen) was unilaterally subsumed by the Union. The fact that you (and European elites) think "the EU is the first step towards a United States of Europe" is the reason we are talking Brexit and why all sorts of other countries are reasserting their national identity over and against a supra-national entity with a democratic deficit.
3
@Kenarmy A very unlikely United States model for Europe. For one thing, many different languages, with the most common us of English as a common language to diminish after Brexit. For another there is no real EU tax system, and no authorization for military use across borders. Pres. G Washington personally led the troops against the tax revels during Shay's Rebellion, with the unposition of federal taxes and military mobilization possible under the Constitution, In addition the European central bank exist primaril to make sure debts to o private banks are paid even by poor EU members That is hardly a central bank system capable of managing a US model European government's inflation and deflation and the transfer of some federal wealth to the poorer regions of the EU (the way, for instance, that NY subsidizes ALA).
3
Brexit, much like our President, is a fraud - a fake solution to imaginary problems sold with impossible promises.
It's been 73 years since WWII, and everyone seems to have forgotten that all of these longstanding trade deals and alliances are meant to prevent WWIII, as well as growing prosperity. By and large, they have done both.
The only possible outcome of Brexit is to diminish the U.K. both economically and culturally.
.
90
@David
You are spot on, another fraud but with the help of Putin.
2
The border is a pointer to a wider issue, the impact of Brexit on the set of relationships on the whole island of Ireland. Relationships which were embraced and defined in the Good Friday Agreement. Planting a border on top of those relationships just doesn’t work. Like it or not, what this issue highlights is that the UK is not a simple bounded entity anymore. Brexit was always a fantasy, the question of Northern Ireland was simply not addressed during the debate process.
11
Why can't Northern Ireland (England approves) have a zero tariff with Ireland. Too simple, or too much politics in the way?
3
@John Sullivan
Because of stubbornness.
Neither the Tories or the Unionists want to give even the slightest impression that the "border" is meaningless.
1
Because the EU prevents the Republic of Ireland establishing its own separate customs union with the UK.
7
The Troubles were horrific. Some 3600 people died. Northern Ireland became a nation addicted to tranquillizers; there were kneecappings, people were murdered socializing and in broad daylight, there were bombings in England I well remember, and notable miscarriages of justice. The peace that was won was beyond hardwon.
Ireland and Northern Ireland have basically suffered enough. Yet May and her Brexit cultists (with zilch opposition from Corbyn) lurch on, selfishly and irrationally, in this insane non-plan to destabilise Britain and its many historic, interlinked relationships (academic, scientific, trade, cultural and beyond) with Europe, Ireland and NI. Millions of Britons, with the rest of the world, observe this manufactured crisis with disbelief and horror.
It seems quite incredible that three years ago, Britain was fine. It took one manipulated vote and a few corrupt actors - with the avid help of the gutter press - to send the entire country into a slo-mo tailspin. Where were all the anti-EU protests and articles before that? Answer: there were none: only mutterings on the Tory backbenches.
I'm afraid that Rahman's "Flexibility is likely to present itself" looks glib. May and her crew throughout have demonstrated a rigid inability to analyze, synthesize or plan. Brexit, deal or no deal, is an artefact of cracks in the Tory party and the tantrums of EU skeptics. It should never have happened but, as it did, May or Corbyn should have thrown it out within months.
71
Of all the myriad of complex issues raised by Brexit , the Ireland /Northern Ireland matter pales in importance .
Yes , one can sympathize with the locals , but it is essentially a marginal topic when compared to the impact of Brexit elsewhere in the continent on the lives of tens of millions.
Maybe the ultimate solution is to recognize that NI is nothing but yet another British colonial outpost , and reunite the the island .
13
@Truthbetoldalways The USA has no idea of the realities of a war on their soil. My friends went to support the Brits, and some died. My time in London was punctuated by bombs, threats of bombs and bombs. It is only 20 years since the Peace Accord, and people living there have not forgotten.
Like Scotland, where I live, the right wing Tory government is rejected, as are it's policies.
The more likely outcome is that both Scotland and NI will break away from the United Kingdom. If offered a vote, this time I will say yes.
10
@Moira I'm sorry to hear you'd vote that way, but I cannot wonder at it. Brexit Britain is untenable.
3
This entire mess of an unbridled no deal Brexit might have an unintended consequence. If hard borders return between Ireland and Northern Ireland, I can see another referendum in the future - this one in Ireland itself, asking for a political union between Ireland and its Northern neighbour, with the now larger Irish Republic enjoying full EU membership and benefits, and with the Protestant minority in the North given a permanent seat in the Cabinet in Dublin.
7
@Rick Morris
That will never happen.
The Unionists will forever see London as the center of power.
2
The Good Friday agreement can still be in effect, the open border can still be accessible to residents, tourists, family visits etc. Only merchandise that is transported will be deemed to follow the "hard Brexit" procedure.
The customs union or backstop; is the key area of disagreement between Brussels and the UK hardliners. Nobody in the UK wants to be a pawn at the hands of the devious EU parliament. All of UK wants the NI to have its cordiality with Ireland in term of people to people relationship.
3
@Gyns D
It is hard to imagine a way in which "'residents, tourists, family visits, etc." are allowed without significant checkpoints to screen for immigrants. The same goes for the transportation of goods. After Brexit, when the Republic of Ireland is once again treated as another country, distinct from Northern Ireland/UK, how would goods be screened to separate Irish/North Ireland goods from smuggled goods without inspections. And why would either the UK or the EU allow a not-so-secret backdoor where no rules apply?
The result will inevitably lead to renewed calls for uniting "Ireland" into the one country it is supposed to be. Until that occurs (never), the pawns will once again be the Catholic Irish residing in Northern Ireland who are excluded from Ireland and not accepted by England (the first among equals in the UK).
22
Another point for the dubious spreaders of mis/disinformation and their nationalist rhetoric for the Leave campaign. Critical thinkers looked at what Brexit would entail and rightly said it would be a calamity; swirling gyres of economic, social and political fallout with real downsides and cloudy benefits. What will happen to these people who have established their livelihoods and businesses based on a porous border between Britain and Ireland? What upsides will they reap once a hard border is reestablished? Likely, none. It will forever be a case of 'the grass is greener.'
8
Would it be less disruptive if Northern Ireland effectively stayed in the E.U. during any Brexit transition, with the result that any border would be between North Ireland and the rest of the U.K., not between Northern Ireland and and the Republic of Ireland?
9
@Joel
That's much too sensible, and is an idea that has been rejected by the British government and the DUP. It would put at risk our 'precious union', apparently. We certainly wouldn't want that to happen.
10
@Joel
OMG - favor Catholics over Protestants! Not while ravens remain caged at the Tower.
Seriously, this would mean the residents of Northern Ireland would need to pass customs to travel withing their own (UK) country. Same for goods. But still - the first thing I said.
1
@Joel I guess this is what the fight in Ireland and Northern Ireland is about.
1